#Remove Armor and make it cosmetic

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merry sinew
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What did I backtrack on

west grotto
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Idk who Meizu is this is the first time I've seen them

merry sinew
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precisely which part of my argument did I backtrack on

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this is my argument

lone sage
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@trim parrot how long until exo fal cateat

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still waiting

merry sinew
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not good changes in your opinion

west grotto
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give me my c4 scope

latent wyvern
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It says most people are bad-mediocre. And that most people are more important than a highly skilled minority.

forest lantern
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It does, but in a game like bbr input from casuals is super important as well as input from good players

west grotto
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Do you use mud to wash your car

merry sinew
edgy creek
west grotto
storm hedge
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i personally have plenty of fun running exo in fact i pick support to kill my existing boredom

latent wyvern
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Nah. It’s very satisfying to kill a ton of people firing on you at once and win thanks to just being tough

edgy creek
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I don't think the current armor system is fun for anyone. But removing it without a replacement would be a painful idea.

merry sinew
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I personally, as a "1kd shitter" dont see the benefit of changing how armor works at the moment. the arguments expressed are all about how the exo armor is difficult to play against and meanwhile I've never had an issue with it. If someone is sitting in a machine gun nest for lack of a better term, I run away or pop smoke and flank

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I dont like exo because it's too slow for me personally, that doesnt mean it should be gotten rid of

edgy creek
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If you remove the whole armor system, you need to rebalance ALL the guns

forest lantern
west grotto
storm hedge
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engaging head-on is not always the answer unfortunately, but the game should not cater to people who don't know better

static timber
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what are the risks of camping with sniper or any other class though
latter being you are not specialized in it but can change positions quicl

spring dawn
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tbh it seems this suggestion just turned into removing EXO when thats clearly never going to happen and removing amour as a whole will never happen as not only a huge part of the playerbase like armour and find it well balanced but I think the people who complain about Exo have just been too loud for the past 4 days going on a week about it. If I hear an LMG or see someone with an EXO I just throw a grenade or something to flush him out

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this whole arguement is literally coming from people who sound like they go in the Exo player's face and try to take him down lmao

west grotto
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Tbh I purposefully find them out sometimes and bomb their entire bloodline

merry sinew
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I simply cannot agree with you man, its just another thing that people are doing that I work around

west grotto
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No exos on my field

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I will find you

merry sinew
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Find an employment office first

west grotto
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At work with my mud car

merry sinew
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"I have a job" no you clearly dont you wash your car in mud

static timber
spring dawn
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Yes that also, yet again Exo players having to explain Exo only lasts after the first or even second gun fight

west grotto
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All support players are required to submit each form of government id available to them

storm hedge
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exo will have an advantage if you don't work around it (fork found in kitchen)

shrewd lichen
merry sinew
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I personally dont see it as a huge advantage, its slow, cumbersome, makes you have to essentially commit to whatever bunker/angle you decide on, you're vulnerable to snipers and RPGs, and it takes forever to even aim shrug

static timber
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mfw a class has the most strong thing taken away with it only to be replaced with something that its limited in situation usage is called strong

spring dawn
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"balancing" has never seem to ever stay on topic when people talk about armour

static timber
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like god i dont care what route we go, armour right now can be bullshit in both sides

forest lantern
west grotto
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Well I suppose just make headshots negate the exo armor because no armor is going to protect you from a face full of bullets bullets and bullets

deft ivy
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I'm actually gonna be honest if there is not armor on support its gonna be op because it wont be as slow as it is now

merry sinew
spring dawn
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so I'm just going to assume people have totally different views on what "balanced" means

static timber
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it had been demostrated and talk many times that it is something that can be bypassed almost entirely in most of situations you will see support players in

spring dawn
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I'm sure if you actually ask a player in-game via voice to see if they think the armour for their class is balanced they'd say yes

storm hedge
forest lantern
static timber
west grotto
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The whole game needs buffs debuffs
Absolutely rework the support class ground up completely needed
Medic still is sideways
Recon is pointless especially with this bad ping
Assault is ok I suppose
Doesn't mean I don't like the game tho

merry sinew
forest lantern
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The point of the thread is not about exo armor, but a generalization of what I said to all armor. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.

merry sinew
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Dont be sorry, its an example of your actual issue

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which is that you dont like exo

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I would prefer that people make that distinction before yelling at others tho

static timber
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it has been said how inconsistency it is for both partys of who is using and who is fighting, and how many weapons are balanced around armour, aswell that it gadget are affected aswell and that we dont have to balance a class identity by armour instead it has to be by weapons and gadgets

deft ivy
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like image
-support moving almost the same speed as everyone else
-has some of the best guns rn
-has a easy way to resupply ammo and bandages
-instant building

sounds like a great time to me

static timber
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so making everyone on the same ground you can go crazy on adding new gadgets, remove and add to some classes to make them actual have something more unique over just armour

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but roadblocks is basically a shit ton of weapons rework, specially for support exclusive weapons

merry sinew
forest lantern
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Maybe armor should just regen over time to make it feel less useless for the one wearing it, and the numbers can be tweaked to make it feel less awful to shoot at.

static timber
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one: this has nothing to do with Esports or something idk where you brought this up
two: playstyles are not dictated by armour the majority of times removing exo because it is literally the anti main about the whole thing that makes everyone likes this game

deft ivy
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I'm gonna be honest support and engineer are really the only unique classes now

-a lot of classes have DMRs and can basically be recon
-assault gits this tiny reload buff that doesn't make it feel unique
-medic was only unique because of its unlimited healing not its just got a lot of bandages

RPGs are exclusive to engineer
support is the only one with LMGs and kinda noticeable armor for like 3 seconds

static timber
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it isnt just the armour that does this
is the weapons
ability to build fast and repair them
ammo box for keep firing without worring

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armour it is something there just to add for it

merry sinew
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Actually you know what. Let's remove armor from the game, for the simple reason that I dont like how my helmet falls off after I get shot in the head

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im switching my vote to yes

deft ivy
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like the only true way to make a unique class is by limiting what each class gets by a lot

merry sinew
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provided it doesnt fall off visibly anymore

static timber
edgy creek
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You could juste make a thread: Remove exo 💀

deft ivy
merry sinew
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actually you know what, one of you should go make a remove exo thread

static timber
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to turn into a hero shooter medics would only have pdws, medic kits and bandagens and just smoke grenades, assault would have only shotguns, and basically limit the classes to one thing only

edgy creek
merry sinew
static timber
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exo is talked about more because is basically the one armour people tend to notice any difference when not caring about stats or simply stick with ranger armour

edgy creek
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Exactly, make it a trench fight

static timber
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and like, alot of people here are against bc is someone identity

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and then they say exo is the class identity

edgy creek
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if everyone could have Exo, I don't think SMG playstyle would use it anyway 💀

static timber
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we would be playing the closest to a milsim with that movement speed🙏

merry sinew
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IIRC you usually use heavier stuff because you're expected to hold the area, not bound and cover and whatnot that requires more agility

static timber
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fuck that shit you call armour

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im bringing a shotgun

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do some warcrimes with it against the germans

storm hedge
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the .700 nitro express in question:

west grotto
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give support old heal speed
make headshot nullify exo

merry sinew
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^both of these ideas are stupid, make them only apply to his account

edgy creek
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^Double it

merry sinew
spring dawn
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also, we really do need some sort of mechanic to when you lose all your armour you can run/heal faster alongside the ability to repair/regain your armour from someone or some place. (Then ofc you'll go back to your ol' slow speed)

storm hedge
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perhaps support should be able to pick an armor box instead of heavy ammo box to restore armor similarly to the medic box

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with limited uses

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(having to be placed first ofc)

west grotto
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If you are olaying support like you claim you are playing support the old health Regen speed idea isn't an issue in the slightest because you'd have a teammate nearby to heal you.. right? Or are you solo humping a corner?

storm hedge
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assuming most medics heal people

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if it isn't for a weekly

west grotto
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I do

storm hedge
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good job

west grotto
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Easy xp

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Easy way to overwhelm a spot

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I move fast for a reason yk

spring dawn
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yes but if we are going to the realm of "balancing" there needs to be debuffs alongside buffs.

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Making Support heal themselves slower would 100% make sense due to them most of the time using the Exo. But they still can bleed easily due to the legs and arms being shot a lot

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so, adding more armour would be a good balance cause now they won't bleed as much but now they have to be even more defensive and even more careful when they move up or push an enemy cause if they start to bleed or need to heal they'll now need to slowly heal up

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Medic could be nearby, yes of course, but the medic also has to heal, revive, and move to the frontlines (where most of the action happens)

edgy creek
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Heal slower but bleed less often? 🤔

spring dawn
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you can still easily bleed if you walk out in an area where snipers see you or where high cal rounds are wizzing pass

deft ivy
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and you said it there the arms and legs are easy to shot

spring dawn
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Also, assuming if Leg/Arm armour would be added I have nothing wrong with those parts being the weakest part of said armour loadout

deft ivy
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so why make them worse when the debuffs are bad enough

edgy creek
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I only take exo helmet when I play Support. Exo armor is too slow.

spring dawn
deft ivy
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unless I'm missing context

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like the only way I'd support a bandage speed decrease is if it was only on the exo body armor and if it covers all of your body until its broken

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and even then I'd still probably not use exo body armor because after it breaks in 1 fight your useless

spring dawn
# deft ivy unless I'm missing context

I'm saying if you just add slow bandaging without covers for the arms/legs the Exo support users would just not like using support that much due to them bleeding and having to deal with the slow bandage effect all the time

deft ivy
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ohhhhhh

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ok i was missing context

spring dawn
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People seem to forget that when a support class is aiming or standing up those are the two easiest places to hit the support class

floral stream
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so basically most of the time as support

spring dawn
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oui

deft ivy
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just like what people say when people ask for a movement nerf
asking for a armor nerf its a "skill issues" and tbh it actually is one when it relates to armor

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because almost in every play vs exo armor more unarmored areas are able to be hit
the only exception is when you shot them in the back but at that point you should be able to hit there legs and have the advantage of being behind them

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and about where cover would be

image2.png
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if they are laying down its almost impossible to hit torso unless you are right on them to the side

spring dawn
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yeah you arent wrong with the back of the legs thing

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I was able to kill someone with a glock-18 not so long ago by just shooting them in the legs

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ofc they were prone though so the legs were very easy to toast

edgy creek
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the Glock

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is nasty af

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Cute little Machinegun

spring dawn
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very nasty

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I need those 40 clip mags the gangs use

edgy creek
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Idk why they buffed it when they buffed pistol.

spring dawn
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long as fuck type

deft ivy
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glock is strong but its basically 1 kill a mag

edgy creek
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without extended mag

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well not two exo armor 💀

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but you can't kill more than two people

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still, it's nasty af

merry sinew
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The king of the battlefield: The fat slow guy who just started playing and has no idea how to do anything in the game

noble yew
noble yew
thorny portal
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some ideas to rework armor rather than remove it

forest lantern
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Those arent reworks, those are all buffs.

merry sinew
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Thank you Kim for your opinion

thorny portal
# forest lantern Those arent reworks, those are all buffs.

Reworks wise ; it is a more simple one but the limb system would be a rework which changes how armor works by the nature of it, than the 3rd one is a addition of a new mechanic and not a rework I do agree but 1 & 2 interlink & could be classified as a simple rework

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I aimmed to keep it sweet, simple & easy to understand while still providing a impact

forest lantern
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Maybe we just have different definitions of the word rework, but to me a rework is when you make a significant change to something that either has both negative and positive outcomes to it or it is debatable if it makes it better or worse.

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All of those things makes armor better

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Except maybe the limb one depending on if the multiplier is < or > 1

thorny portal
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it is a case of a yes/no

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but I tend to vary the term rework due to all the games I have played use it differently

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similar to the idea of crowd control with my buddies in WF

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got one who includes nukes as crowd control and others who consider any debuff,hamperment & the like towards enemies as Crowd control (so non damaging effects)

forest lantern
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regardless, blanket buffing armor is a horrible idea

noble yew
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Fix first balance later Clueless

thorny portal
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armor is Under powered right now

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exception is exo helmet

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first trying to fix it to being a valid option

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and as sworce said, we can balance it later incase it is too powerful

forest lantern
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Again, the point of this thread is that armor feels both over and under powered.

thorny portal
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I suppose so does movement

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your point?

lone sage
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Real armor rework: change armor to damage reduction, heavier armor increases coverage and absorbs more shots instead of more damage

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Exo armor now gets themed around the hitbox and lasting more shots before it breaks, meaning you pick it for consistency, and choosing a gun that "counters" exo is more straightforward

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The DR becomes the same shot to kill increase as normal armor, meaning exo feels more consistent to play against and as

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Limb damage goes 0.9, like light armor, making it slightly more incentivizing to aim for center mass with an armor break gun

wintry oak
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no armor customization is cool and unique to this game allows for customization on how many gadgets and mags you can carry as well the armor is well balanced in my opinion no reason to change it

noble yew
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It might be balanced when it actually works properly

dusty sigil
lone sage
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minus the specific gun thing as damage values alr properly do that

dusty sigil
lone sage
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yup

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then tweak to fit current game armor values better to not fuck with gun balancing too much

latent wyvern
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To be equally strong the damage reduction % from armour would need to be bigger than what the current raw armour values are

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If they were equal, best case scenario they perform the same but worst (and more common) cases they would perform worse. The independent health pools is currently important to the usefulness of armour

lone sage
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that's a fail on the armor system then

latent wyvern
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It's a vital consideration if we are to change anything.

rocky blade
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So Light armor (in example)
reduces damage by 20 but a pistol round has like 10-15 base piercing power. So against pistol bullets it's only partially effective, and against rifle bullets maybe not at all.

Of course this comes with its own issues...

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ffs

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bot moment

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anyways, covering the problems:
[] flat hp buff
hp increase kinda sucks because it penalizes slow firing high damage weapons, which depend on the base breakpoints. example: 100 normal armor -> 175 heavy armor
[] damage reduction
penalizes low damage or slow firing near breakpoint weapons the most. armor reduces damage directly, meaning high enough damage/pierce overcomes.

latent wyvern
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Is “flat hp buff” the current system?

rocky blade
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[] damage divisor
common system. kinda bad because it penalizes high damage. imagine body armor that stop 20% damage. 20 damage assault rifle become 15 damage, so 5 damage reduced. But 120 damage bolt action becomes 95, 25 damage reduced.
Problem sharpens with increased divisor strength.

latent wyvern
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Armour in any implementation will harm guns near unarmoured breakpoint values the most though. This doesn’t exactly correlate with their fire rates

rocky blade
latent wyvern
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So flat HP buff makes weapon balancing a big issue since it vastly reduces the number of damage breakpoints

rocky blade
# latent wyvern Armour in any implementation will harm guns near unarmoured breakpoint values th...

in my thoughts, damage reduction makes chip damage much less... chippy, as it stacks up.
Reduction 5 against damage 20 means that damage becomes 15, so go from 4 to 7. It also means armor defeat 35 damage, but bought you effectively 40 health.
But reduction 5 against damage 40 means that damage becomes 35, so no change, and armor only defeat 15 damage but effectively bought no extra health at all.

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wrt to near break low rof:
yeah that's fair

latent wyvern
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I don’t support flat reduction armour simply because it throws the balance of different guns way too much - and since you can’t predict who you will run into in game, having your weapon effectively countered or not randomly by who shows up is not fun imo. Lowers skill ceiling due to unpredictability and is frustrating

rocky blade
noble yew
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Just do either % with a side of ap or bonus hp armor with hsd reduction helmet

rocky blade
noble yew
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That would be funny if no armors still increased speed

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But they don't KuroFinger

latent dock
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The biggest issue this would cause is making the m110 OP. The two shot kill would be guaranteed.

edgy creek
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it would make 25 33 50 67 the only breakpoint needed

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any weapon in between, would be who has best recoil/firerate.

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damage wouldn't matter

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if armor get removed, all the gun needs rebalance 💀

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And I don't think they're gonna do that.

latent wyvern
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That is still 300ms ttk which is poor.

latent dock
# latent wyvern That is still 300ms ttk which is poor.

I think depending on range and whether or not the enemy is capable of hitting every shot would be a huge determining factor on if ttk would matter. Even if every shot was a guaranteed body shot right now I would only use m110. But it’s all “what ifs”

latent wyvern
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any DMR can leave the enemy outranged, M110 is not special in that regard

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TTK only does not matter when you definitely will kill them. Even if they can't fight back they still can get to cover (loosing you a kill)

edgy creek
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What does Armor durability brings to the table? 🤔

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Do people consider it fun breaking someone's armor?

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Is it fun hearing your armor get destroying, knowing it saved your life?

latent wyvern
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it means full body coverage is not needed to have armour be decently consistent compared to alternatives

earnest dirge
edgy creek
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hmmm

earnest dirge
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Plus, it acts sort of like a last chance, you get one shot to hide in cover and try to take out the person that almost killed you

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I play sniper mostly, and think it’s always really stressful (not in a bad way, in an adrenaline type of way) to have what would have been a kill shot not be. It gets you hiding behind cover though, and the sniper knows they need to hide to avoid getting spotted

rocky blade
edgy creek
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So durability is something we wanna keep

earnest dirge
vast canopy
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^this is definitely one of the worst parts if you're wearing it; having it break and literally not knowing

earnest dirge
vast canopy
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Mm link it if you find it please

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I'll look later, would like that added for sure

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maybe make the check mag button do that instead... bcuz lets be honest reloading takes the same amount of time

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checks health/armor