C4 - Feedback

[remote fiber]

everyone has c4

and everyone but medic has anti-nade trophies

[floral oxide]

recon don't have it either I'm pretty sure

[livid ice]

yeah just med and recon without it

[wise glen]

Imo it sould be limited to assault and support. The trophies

[floral oxide]

I don't mind a defensive gadget as it is right now, if it blocked c4 we could limit it maybe.

[tough sorrel]

As an engi main I'll accept this.
More support players = more people to put down big boxes to resupply RPGs from

[remote fiber]

id say Engi and Support for the trophies but really the one class it feels "core" on is support and i think everyone kinda agrees there

[modest panther]

C4 is alright I guess

[vernal eagle]

I love C4, just got blown up by a guy hiding 20m away behind some cover, in a literal ditch

No risk high reward is perfect for game balance

[naive bay]

that is just how mines etc work in general

[sonic nacelle]

admittedly

laying down traps with C4 is how it SHOULD be used

it takes far more time and effort than just walking up to a tank and nuking it

(which is why i think C4 sticking to vehicles just needs to fucking go lmao. or at least you should have to be point blank and perform an animation to do it)

[vernal eagle]

Mine is ok, throwing one click auto win button from 20m away it not the best for the game health

Worse than a frag honestly

[naive bay]

that is also what mines do

unless you imply they threw it that 20m? I did not consider that a likely meaning since C4 has a range of ~5m on level ground

[vernal eagle]

Yeah, he literally lobbed it over hesco like, 15-20 meters

And that shit magnetised to me

[sonic nacelle]

yeah, it's pretty fucking silly what you can get away with

[vernal eagle]

Exactly this happend to me
And C4 magnetises, so it flies directly to you if you are close enough

[hidden lark]

you can throw C4 up to 15m

and that's on flat surface

and you put a C4 up to a third floor of a building

[vernal eagle]

And it always magnetised to walls/structures/vehicles, giving you few meters of range more

[naive bay]

The magnetising thing has a range of like 10cm

[hidden lark]

this is a massive cap. 🧢

[naive bay]

Otherwise you literally would not be able to throw it anywhere but wide open space

[frozen ruin]

I feel like I have too many of them as support and can just throw them around casually in every situation rather than treating them like something I need to use in bespoke and specific situations. Very low risk.

[floral oxide]

thats only vert, I've seen it fly stright at least 3 meters to meet a wall instead

[hidden lark]

• Very low risk
• High reward
• Does everything
• can be used by anyone

[frozen ruin]

Also, support has nothing to make small holes with, but that's not really related to C4

[vernal eagle]

On your 17 inch screen you mean.

Magnetisation easily covers 5 meters, it's some wierd shit

[hidden lark]

I'll say it again and again. Add pickaxe/sledge hammer as a new gadget category slot.

This would solve a lot of things.

[naive bay]

I have never observed it anywhere remotely close to that range

How would that even work

How would it even be throwable

[hidden lark]

In the first place, I don't think C4 should be throwable 💀

[sonic nacelle]

i think it's fine to be able to throw it on buildings

i love flushing out window campers with it, or creating paths from building to building

but being able to throw it on vehicles? yeah, no

[floral oxide]

because only the vertical magnetism was changed. vert was left the same. or at least something like that.

[naive bay]

That doesn’t answer the question

It would immediately stick to the nearest wall if you were in or near any building

[floral oxide]

it can go through things because the cone it used for to magnetize was toned down and focused in its direction of travel. like seriously have you not used c4 since that change? pretty sure its been a couple months.

[naive bay]

Yeah, I’ve used it a lot, and I’ve never seen it teleport like you guys are saying it does

Like this is insanely easy to demonstrate

[floral oxide]

it doesn't "teleport" it just latches on

you can easily see it fly straight for a few more meters

[naive bay]

That would lead to it sticking to ceilings all the time which I think would be pretty annoying. I’ll have to test that more later

[floral oxide]

its a very tight angle

[naive bay]

It could be infinitely tight and still cause that issue.

[cursive echo]

Why does thrown C4 sometimes slow down once its travelled about 10m? It's like time is being slowed around it, or gravity is reduced. It doesn't fall like a grenade but starts to slowly drift down like a feather.

[floral oxide]

its accelerating in another direction, it just looks weird

[vernal eagle]

I love how C4 is still blatantyl OP and too available but dev's do not care

[sonic nacelle]

bro it's okay bro they're just going to focus on skins bro it's gonna save the game bro come on bro have some faith in oki bro

[floral oxide]

you are literally the only one who talks like that, mocking people who don't exist.

[sonic nacelle]

okay?

i don't really care if people like that exist lmao

doesn't change what oki is doing

[fallen tartan]

idk how people think c4 is op. i've been using it for 400 hours and it's still the most inconsistent dogshit in the game

throw it on top of some guy, he lives. it goes off in the same zipcode as me it kills me tho

it lands in a pile of 5 people, it kills none of them, but somehow kills a guy up the hill from them

fucking

insane

[floral oxide]

other explosives, other c4.

a single block has a small blast radius for damage now.

[fallen tartan]

i literally, just threw a c4 down some stairs, the c4 model is inside the guys chest, he doesn't even take 50 damage from it\

[floral oxide]

he definitely did. but armor

think it does 60 for a single block?

[fallen tartan]

and then some guy throws one up over the cover i hid behind it's like 2m above my head and i die instantly from full

[floral oxide]

...can c4 headshot?

[fallen tartan]

if it could do you think people would live from mine as often as they do?

[floral oxide]

cause that would explain alot if it can

[fallen tartan]

it's my #1 complaint with c4 is just that it's so fucking inconsistent

[floral oxide]

it applies damage based on closest point of contact.

[fallen tartan]

if it's not 100% attached to a wall it wont break it

even if said wall is a god damn chain link fence

[floral oxide]

i.e its hitting either armor, the body, or the helmet

[fallen tartan]

idk what it's doing but it's designed terribly rn

[floral oxide]

I think its a bit too precise maybe

so bits of terrain mess with it, player models in different posistions so different spots get hit

[fallen tartan]

between that and everyone spamming trophy systems while camping with lmg/dmr every game is just a fiesta where even if i play way better than everyone else in the area and manage to push across open ground without my team and start trying to break the camping position the c4 just does nothing and i want to quit

cant grenade the camp positions, can barely push them with absurd movement, can't c4 them because the fucking thing doesnt work 90% of the time

games a fucking mess rn

[floral oxide]

what could also be happening when you throw it over cover is that it gets set off by someone else, either your team or the enemy

so you click, but your c4 is already gone.

[fallen tartan]

i've learned that can happen months ago, i know when that happens though i think the way that works it stupid af too. it can be literally on top of people and if it gets shot it just does nothing

[floral oxide]

now it being precise and the blast radius for damage is miniscule now for players. we need a demo charge or something to really remove those nests

[fallen tartan]

or worse backfires and kills me even though i threw it and escaped around the corner

[floral oxide]

something we place on the cover they hidebehind and takes it with it. and anyone in a certain radius

[floral oxide]

thats less c4 and more desync

[fallen tartan]

like drill charge

[floral oxide]

maybe even got shot out of midair

drill charge?

where's that from?

[fallen tartan]

call of duty's only useful thing they've added to the game in like 8 years

it sticks to surfaces, drills into it then explodes doing damage around it and through it

great for walls and disgusting riot shield sweats

[wise glen]

not sure why c4 is being weird for you, but it is 100% far too meta

[fallen tartan]

i dont even think it's meta rn because everyone is playing support/recon rn

[floral oxide]

fair enough, maybe. I was just thinking the quad demo assembly the military currently uses

[wise glen]

Every single rcon runs c4 lol

[fallen tartan]

it's just fucking ap mines and trophy systems everywhere

[wise glen]

or they run mines + drone cheeze

[floral oxide]

cause even 2 m112 charges are still only used to breach doors

[fallen tartan]

recon with c4 isn't using it for kills 90% of the time though

[wise glen]

recon with c4 cheeses vehicles hard though

[fallen tartan]

recon cheeses everything right now with dogshit map design making them oppressive literally everywhere

thanks vilaskis

[wise glen]

no no no, don't worry recon got nerfed

[fallen tartan]

yeah it's the worst it's ever been, totally unplayable

unless you're on every map that isn't frugis/namak

[floral oxide]

you mean DMR users?

[fallen tartan]

then just go fuck yourself free kill

[wise glen]

people ask me why I sit in tanks all game, its not because they are op, because they really are bad.

its because recon can't shoot me lol

[floral oxide]

cause most of the time it ain't recon

[fallen tartan]

the dmr rats aren't playing recon. they're playing assault like subhumans

[vernal eagle]

Yeah . More skins and some charms will balance the game. No need to do something about C4, DMR's or RPG'S in CQC. More skins and charms will bring back those 80k people

[floral oxide]

yeah, recon are either really ineffective shooting from 700 meters plus, or using DMRs.

[fallen tartan]

this is probably the worst gamestate we've had and i played through vector meta without one

atleast then everyone was running around proving how shit they were in cqc

now they just rat

[floral oxide]

people thinking the guy working on skins and charms are also working on balance

[fallen tartan]

there's only like 3 of them

nobody is working on balance btw, that's the joke

ofc recon could be a lot better balanced (Read, less nerfed) if vilaskis could make even a single map that doesn't massively cater to them

[floral oxide]

everyones just pissed at dying from anything in medium range above 150 meters.

like its not even recon, its mostly DMR users.

I see more m110s and mk20s than I see m200s

[fallen tartan]

no, i'm pissed that i spend 70% of the game running around the map unable to find someone to shoot because i literally cannot see people with all the ground clutter on top of the majority of the lobby shooting from as far away as possible because they can see everything

i cant run up massive killstreaks fighting on objs if the enemy team is just recon/dmr ratting in the endless foliage

[wise glen]

the decision to make ground cover less visible at distance was a bad one.

[floral oxide]

technically it could be recon, but see DMR engies and assault more often than not. m110 with 1200 muzzle velocity is crazy

[fallen tartan]

m110 and the other one mk20? both of those can fuck off. dying to that shit in cqc is instant tilt lol

[wise glen]

It really doesn't help that using helis to get recon isn't very good since they can just snipe the pilot

[floral oxide]

you would have thought dozens of games trying to find way to avoid ULQ cheese to see further because less foliage would have been a clue

[fallen tartan]

the vector isn't that bad and neither am i. i'm not great but there's no universe i should be getting deleted point blank by that shit

[floral oxide]

you usually wont unless you get headshot or your armor is broken

[wise glen]

Just make it so low settings don't remove ground cover. This game isn't exactly hard to run lol

[floral oxide]

other wise its a 3-4 shot

[fallen tartan]

it's a 2 tap point blank, even if i react first and dont miss i lose to it way too often

or atleast i only hear 2 shots before i die

could be more game issue

[floral oxide]

well yeah, but that decision is overall, ULQ is a warthunder thing since the change is more drastic, but the same principle applied

[floral oxide]

its not unless you have no armor

[fallen tartan]

low settings dont even remove ground clutter, it stays visible out to like 1k meters last i checked

or maybe it was 100

[wise glen]

Right, but they recently made ground cover less... covery

but its out to 100

[fallen tartan]

fuck it, opening shooting range

[floral oxide]

yeah less grass

[fallen tartan]

less covery? have you played kodiak lol

[wise glen]

no lol

[floral oxide]

did you play kodiak when it first came out?

massive difference

still hate the damn prone crawl animation

[fallen tartan]

i've had people inside of 10m that i can't even see. i'm reacting to muzzle flashes or pure instinct guesses to shoot them

[floral oxide]

why the fuck when we crawl do we pick our head up to our waist height if we so much as try and move an inch

which of course is not shown in first person

[fallen tartan]

i'm not joking about that either. kodiak is far and away the worst map rn for visibility with dustydew a close second

people within feet of you and neither of you can see the other

[floral oxide]

where exactly, unless one of us is standing in a bush or something, it shouldnt be that hard

[fallen tartan]

like the entirety of the map if you're running

[wise glen]

looking at Steam charts, they are up due to December, but only to 11k which is not the best.

But they are still sinking overall. Down to 8k

Game is def going away. IMO, I stopped playing mostly due to poor vehicle balance (they even locked the vehicle feedback thread) and poor class balance.

[fallen tartan]

it all blurs hella hard

[floral oxide]

turn off blur maybe or do you mean that figuratively?

[fallen tartan]

if you stand still yea people stand out pretty heavily cause they're just running through, but if you're moving at all everything blurs so hard you can't see people even if you're looking near them

[floral oxide]

24 hour peak is still above 12k

hasn't moved much in the past month, except gaining about 1k after the free weekend

[wise glen]

Those are December numbers

[fallen tartan]

cause people are degen hours without school/work

[floral oxide]

novemeber was the same

[wise glen]

ah ok

[fallen tartan]

we were below 4k multiple times throughout december

[floral oxide]

October was 13k to 11k by beginning of november, after free weekened 11k to 12 almost 13k.

[wise glen]

I just know the reason I left, and pretty much everybody I met playing this game left was just poor balance.

And the obvious favor toward smgs and snipers.

[fallen tartan]

smgs been got nerfed, they havent been favored outside of their strong point for months

except ump but that was an abomination of cancer

[wise glen]

that is the thing though, at least one SMG has always been super meta 😛

[fallen tartan]

dmr/recon is map design favored heavily rn, supports are very favored thanks to some moron giving them battle rifles

and coming soon, supports with ranger armor

[wise glen]

they should be buffing LMGs

[fallen tartan]

lmgs are fine, people don't play support correctly and then freak out about it

[wise glen]

they need a suppression fire mechanic that affects your ability to aim under heavy fire.

[fallen tartan]

cause they can't use them like an ar with 100rd mags

[wise glen]

For sure, G36 is my favorite weapon

[floral oxide]

or single shot ar/carbine.

if people actually take the time to not use full auto all the time

ars and carbines can hit just as hard at 300 meters

with far less recoil and a faster fire rate

[fallen tartan]

i liked the g36, but seriously people have been dooming about support since launch, i played it once with a blank ultimax (i had 4 kills on it at the start of the game) and dropped 100 kills trying to figure out how to best play support

[wise glen]

They need to give support the ability to make MG nests or other hard defensive points

stuff that can't just be sniped or little birded to death

[fallen tartan]

you'll never get that lol

ofc a lot of that would again, be mitigated by not dogshit map design

[wise glen]

I can dream

[floral oxide]

give ability to actually use bipod and sandbags that have space for said bipod that doesn't leave entire body exposed

[fallen tartan]

tbh i'd even be fine with them giving supports better buildables (instead of individual sandbag walls let them place a whole position all at once)

[wise glen]

zalfi seems to be one of the better designed maps. Clear areas for water and land play, and harder to constantly get behind the enemy and camp.

[fallen tartan]

i like zalfi but it's a bit too open on some of the flank routes

[wise glen]

fair enogh

could use more trees

or other soft cover

[fallen tartan]

ye

pretty much every map would benefit from that/more terrain obscuring views

i'm so close to prestige 7 and i just burn out after like 2 hours of play

i wanna play this fucking game and it's just so baddddddd

[sonic nacelle]

Yeah

after vector got nerfed i was like "oh wow, the balance is actually getting addressed, im sure the game is going to get better as time goes on"

but it has only gotten worse lmfao

[fallen tartan]

it's unreal. i guess oki is getting what he wanted? people are playing slow in every server i join. sitting in every god damn window with their fuckin dmrs/lmgs and shit

turn a corner whole squad firing squads me from a row of second floor windows

[wise glen]

Imagine driving a tank in this meta.
You try to push in only for some random dude in a window to c4 you in a second.

armor infantry gameplay just isn't possible

In the past month I have died to RPGs maybe twice?

c4 countless times

[fallen tartan]

that's cause engi's are using all their rpgs on other infantry

[wise glen]

ha fair

though at least with RPGs I have some counter play.
Sure they do way too much damage to armor.
but at least I can smoke or move

c4... I am just ded

[median pagoda]

I’m guessing RPGs do as much damage as they do because it was assumed you’d have an engineer close by to repair

[wise glen]

Tell that to the poor LAV that is one shot by tandems lol

[vernal eagle]

It never was possible man. No matter what the meta.

Game is just created to make vehicles weak as fuck. And that's intentional

[wise glen]

What is strange though is that the devs originally wanted a super realistic milsim type game. In those games, vehicles are very powerful.

[vernal eagle]

Now they want arcady game

All arcady games with vehicles have them much better than this shit show we have

BF, PS2, WW3

Idk what's going one here

[wise glen]

even the latest call of duty has better vehicle balance lol

[remote fiber]

just add some kind of arming time before throwing it so it isnt just "a grenade but better and you get six"

[fallen tartan]

it's 5 now

[wise glen]

still, need arming time

right now its like people run aroudn with 5 armed c4

which is hella dangerious

[floral oxide]

support still gets 6 I think

[sonic nacelle]

it 100% needs arming time and a delay between throws. you should not be able to chuck out all of them at once

if you want to instakill a tank, it should be a massive commitment

[wise glen]

And probably not doable in the mists of 10 infantry before and of them can react.

[remote fiber]

yeah logging in for the first time in a week (bc of the holidays) to a field of christmas newbies being slaughtered en masse by C4 spam really drove home how badly the nerf is needed

[exotic heart]

what if placing C4 required the button to be held for a time in order to be just thrown? then throwing multiple charges would take more time than placing multiple within closer proximity. would still give players the option to throw c4, but now it requires more risk and precision and throwing multiple at a distance would take considerably more time than, for example, actually running up to a tank and placing multiple of them at a closer range.

[whole dome]

throwing and damage are so inconsistent 💀

[fallen tartan]

all explosives feel pretty inconsistent tbh

i peeked an angle to throw a grenade on it and had to step back instantly to dodge the 4 dmrs staring at me and landed the nade near me (close enough that i expected to get tagged by it) and it killed me. swear if it had been an enemy nade it would've chipped me for like 10 damage or smth

i've had enemy nades land closer to me and not even hurt me but my own nade killed me

shit's wild

[whole dome]

oh don't get me started on impact nades 💀

[vernal eagle]

Nah, throwing is consistent as fuck. 13m range and auto magnetism, you can reach faar with that shit.

[whole dome]

not on buildings and people lmao

[wild lake]

c4 needs faster travel time, when thrown it floats in the air for ages and since it small the perspective is janky so you dont know how far away it is untill it lands on a wall (maybe cos i have shadows off)

[whole dome]

oh god the magnet jank where only one force applies 💀

[modest panther]

C4 probably the most balanced equipment in comparison to other options. Could use a buff on throw distance though.

[remote fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[misty pumice]

Give it an alternate throw where the player can fling it like a ninja star.

[fallen tartan]

ill be honest the more i play the more i think c4 is fine until trophy systems get nerfed

[vernal eagle]

The more you play the more you get accustomed to presence of c4 and state it is. You start to lose sight of its flaws, because they become commonplace to you.
That doesn't make it not broken

[fallen tartan]

i mean, it's really not broken in non-vehicle modes. trophy systems destroying grenades through walls and apparently not having a limit to what they can destroy is broken

also, they're hilariously bad vs players. seems like every other c4 i use doesn't actually do damage

[storm moth]

Trophy system wise, they are a nice gadget for defensive play, but I don't see many use them when I play

[floral oxide]

not too many of them anymore

but yeah the "destroy through walls" needs to be fixed

[vernal eagle]

I would disagree with that, for a few reasons.
It's basically 5/6 more nades, another explosive with 490dmg cap, contrubutes heavily to explosive spam
It has significant dmg to environment, destruction/levelution is good, but 254 players have too much tools to do so, resulting in lack of cover in a game that alredy lacks cover
It doesn't need LoS to be used (lobbing over walls), is instant, has very big range comparing to other games, 13m + magnetism
It has magnetis that makes it clunky to use, or impossible to miss with it, depending on the moon phase and time of day (totally random)

And the most important one: Too strong and aboundand. Especially with how easy it is.

[exotic heart]

two broken gadgets doesn't mean either of them are balanced. it justifies changes/fixes for both - not one first or the other second.

[fallen tartan]

the damage cap is irrelevant. if you have 20 people stand on one spot you all deserves to die for having dogshit spacing.

you can throw frags without line of sight (though theyre currently fucked by the amount of people spamming trophys)

[vernal eagle]

Radical take but ok. And no, dmg cap isn't irrelant, it's a existing game mehanic

[fallen tartan]

correct but if you fix c4 and leave trophies as a complete counter to explosives you just further push people into either rpg spamming or ratting with trophies

[fallen tartan]

it's a bad game mechanic is my point

what other game protects you from an explosive by limiting how much total damage it can do?

again, the whole point of proper spacing is to avoid dying to one grenade (part of why trophys are so disgusting, they encourage standing very close together to abuse the safe zone they provide)

[exotic heart]

seems like biased opinions on camping in general then. not everyone wants to run and gun.

[fallen tartan]

i mean yeah. im biased against the current climate in 90% of my games being people hiding on roofs/in corners with dmrs/supports with 3 hit battle rifles

i dont think it's particularly fun with the ttk so low to just die instantly to someone because i checked the wrong corner when i pushed

[floral oxide]

if BRs are so good, why don't you use them?

[exotic heart]

i think your really taking this discussion way out of perspective if that's your opinion and it should be discussed in another. nerfing c4 is barely going to make camping more favorable and i think you are making sound like more of an issue than it actually is.

[fallen tartan]

because i'm grinding levels to get to 10th prestige. the fal doesnt have recoil now btw

[fallen tartan]

it's more to the point of what alternative do you have to defensive position busting than swapping engi and spamming rpgs when the trophy spam starts? which is a common issue in my games

like yeah you can nerf c4 but it's already jank and even just today i've more times than i can count detonated c4 within inches of someone and not even tagged them

[vernal eagle]

What other games put 254 players in relatively small area?
The only game that does that, and it still alive is PS2, which limits acces to explosives by resource system.

[exotic heart]

im looking at the trophy system discussion and it only seems like the only relevant issue is when it blocks explosives through walls, not the "spam" or overuse of it. now that i've read through that discussion, i have disagree with nerfing the trophy system. if anything, it seems like it needs to reward more points. but again, this discussion is being taken way out of perspective. nerf C4. end the C4 spam.

[storm moth]

as much as I enjoy watching enemies wonder where I put the trophy system in frugis subway (Hint Check inside the hesco wall), I do agree that should be fixed

[fallen tartan]

there is no c4 spam dawg. unless supports are doing it. it's not the dmr assaults

[storm moth]

So why do assaults have dmrs again?

never understood that

[fallen tartan]

idk. same reason supports got battle rifles i guess? inclusiveness?

dumb af

[vernal eagle]

Supports needs weapons, 5 is not enough. BR's fit the most i guess

Questionable but works

[vernal eagle]

Not C4 spam, true, but definitely explosives spam. And C4 is a big contributor here.

[fallen tartan]

they do need weapons. they dont need a 3 hit kill ar that dominates close-mid range in the fal

[vernal eagle]

Arguable, Fal is OP, yes, rarely used, somehow. Should support get it, idk, I am just happy I have more weapons to play with

Scar my beloved

[fallen tartan]

arent like half the unreleased weapons support weapons anyway? maybe they shouldve just implemented those

[floral oxide]

my man thinks that BR's are OP wow

[vernal eagle]

FAL is, or is very close. G3 is perfectly balanced. SCAR and AK15 could use some buffs here and there

[fallen tartan]

if you dont think the fal is op, you havent used it since they made the heavy barrel unnecessary, it's borderline a laser now, especially by comparison to how it was "balanced" by it's recoil before

[storm moth]

BRs makes some sense, Heavy rifles effectively & adds some to his weapons while still making some sense

equally it took them how long to add the various weapons

be it in the end, the OP fal is now usable by anyone I suppose lol

but if your issue is with the fal, we should just go nerf fal in it's thread

#1138201790496657468 message

[fallen tartan]

yall are wild to me. idk how you look at supports sitting in corners with a 3 hit kill weapon like they weren't fine (if limited in choice) with their current weapon sets.

[storm moth]

they already had a 3 hit kill gun prior

they had two at launch in fact

[fallen tartan]

crazy that it's not balanced on a class with nearly double hp

[storm moth]

Double HP?

[floral oxide]

man there's plenty of guns that kill just as quickly lol

[storm moth]

You mean chest armor which is avoidable or you mean the helmet which is 37

[floral oxide]

no support guy is wearing exo and using a fal

[storm moth]

so at best 33% roughly

[floral oxide]

if you wanted to use a fal you would be assault

[storm moth]

Pretty much

Support ain't meta, Assault is

but this should head to https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1138399550210576466

or #1138201790496657468 message

or https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1133102456998469682

Anyhow C4 wise

What is the current issues with C4 I suppose to ask various people, think it is fine, think is it spammed heavily or?

[floral oxide]

spammed heavily and I believe simply to useful to be in everyone's pockets.

[fallen tartan]

i really dont have issues with c4 other than how inconsistent it is.

[storm moth]

So waited a wee bit

So inconsistency issues should 100% be fixed

[exotic heart]

heavily spammed. it has no business being thrown so far and the quantity carried per person is too much. some classes do not need more than maybe 2 charges if not any at all.

[hidden lark]

• Lots of range ( horizontally 15m~), 3 story building vertically.
• everyone has it
• AoE Kill tool as a gadget.
• Kills vehicle really fast (Delay between throw is really fast)
• Overshadow other options by far (SC4 is worse, Sledge hammer and pickaxe can't compete)
• Enough quantity to kill a tank and everything

[vernal eagle]

About quantity

You can kill 2 tanks,
3 LAV's, (6 if from the rear)
Deal 2940 dmg to infantry
Destroy 3 jeeps, no matter which ones

[hidden lark]

I think range is definitely a big problem.

I think it should be set to 2 as default, and each +1 to it, from backpack, should have heavy downside.

and AoE, should be made more consistent, but smaller.

[livid ice]

Kills frontlines in seconds whether people are pushing or defending by chucking them over sandbags or walls, same for 1v1s just peek at a person throw c4 and run away for a free kill

It takes away so much from the game

[storm moth]

so issues so far are the following

1. everyone has it
2. it overshadows other gadget options (acts as a one stop shop for various anti X)
3. easy to spam due to large amount carried

correct so far?

[floral oxide]

yeah, the speed you can throw it and its range are also up there. if it was like BF3's 5 meter range and slow to throw multiple it would be far better

[lethal bolt]

It's just a better grenade, basically. It has no arm time and no real counter. Planetside 2 did c4 way better, and it sounds like battlefield did too.

[sonic nacelle]

it is pretty stupid

players should be punished for huddling together

explosive damage caps need to go

[vernal eagle]

That's true, I can't disagree

But with 127 players, this is something that WILL happen

You can't remove that behaviour

Just too many people, so when you would have 2 guys in one spot in BF/on 32v32, on 127v127 you have 8 people or more

[sonic nacelle]

you can't remove it but you can make it a risk that the players have to take

[vernal eagle]

That's just another thing that steams from our big player size

[sonic nacelle]

the chance that someone will come along and C4/RPG/HE shell everyone in the pile is low, but never 0

[naive bay]

it already is, people can use more than 1 C4

[sonic nacelle]

fuck off moron, it's not an issue exclusive to the C4

[naive bay]

bit rude.

[vernal eagle]

It is a risk with damage cap. Without it, it was too strong. One nade killing as many people as in radious.

[sonic nacelle]

you've not said anything intelligent in response to me ever, sorry not sorry

regardless

i'd gladly take not being able to spam the C4 in exchange for removing the damage cap

[sonic nacelle]

i mean yeah, if you land a nade directly in the pile, why should you not be rewarded for that?

as is, half the pile is going to survive and just revive the other half

[naive bay]

having them keep reviving each other isn't neccesarily bad for you. If you have more explosives

[vernal eagle]

You are rewarded, you can get between 4 to 490 kills, technically

[sonic nacelle]

490 kills?

[vernal eagle]

4 kills per nade is good, like, you can't complain

[sonic nacelle]

i have a feeling it's not possible to get that many kills with a single grenade

[vernal eagle]

That's the most upper, theoretical limit

[sonic nacelle]

i think you're confusing it with 490 damage

because that's the cap of explosives

ie, you can never kill more than 4 full health players with a single explosive

[vernal eagle]

It would be if there was 490 players with 1 hp inside radious. Game would allow for that, but other limits would not

[sonic nacelle]

oh come on

come on.

come on

[vernal eagle]

I said 'theoretically'

[naive bay]

even so, it's a silly consideration

[vernal eagle]

But continuing, you can get more than 4 kills, players often run below 100

[sonic nacelle]

i mean most importantly there aren't even that many players in a server

[vernal eagle]

Yes. It's silly. More of a fun fuct

But it is totally resonably possible to get 10 kills, but that rare, very rare

[vernal eagle]

Well true, but like I saidz its theoretical, and def more of fun fact than vaible mechanic

[sonic nacelle]

yeah, i don't know, i don't think you should have to get lucky with enemy health

if i roll up in a tank and HE shell a pile of enemies, all of them should be dead, imo

[naive bay]

would be more satisfying

[sonic nacelle]

indeed

[vernal eagle]

People didn't liked it, that's why we have limit. You either limit damage of explosives, or limit thier avalibility drastically

[naive bay]

when the explosive cap was implemented it seemed mostly for frugis and old district tunnels though, where it was understandable

because huge numbers could be wiped out in a tiny time

though having trophy systems lessens that a bit. But it doesn't work for c4

[vernal eagle]

Also Waki bridge. New namak also works like that.

The clumping happens on Salhan or Lonovo too, but more rarely

[naive bay]

I'd say to a lesser extent on waki. At least people tend to spread out a bit, but I did once get a 12 kill drone there.

[vernal eagle]

Outskirts, too, not as much as frugis, salhan, namak tho

[vernal eagle]

The bridge man

Easiest way to get C4/Nades kills

HE farm also

[naive bay]

yeah but it's not narrow enough to see literal seas of people like you do in other mentioned areas

usually lots of cover around

[wise glen]

drone c4/ap mine cheese would get way way way too strong if explosive damage cap was removed.

[sonic nacelle]

that's a whole another can of worms

the drone really needs to be slowed down the more shit you put on it

[vernal eagle]

It is iirc

[sonic nacelle]

clearly not enough to have an impact

[vernal eagle]

True

[fallen tartan]

wait are suicide drones still a thing? i've seen like 2 people try to use them lately and i just shot them out of the air before they even got close

[naive bay]

has a pretty major one

super easy to shoot down with more than like 2 mines

drones were only busted in beta imo when people didn't know how to shoot them. People do now

[whole dome]

they have...

[floral oxide]

it doesn't have an impact because they just drop it out of the sky even faster becasue of all the weight on it.

so the top speed means nothing, and the weight in fact helps more often than not

[vernal eagle]

They have more impact than average RPG user, or most gadgets. Only gadget that has bigger impact is C4 and medkit imo.

Drones are good, you can reach campers high up, destroy tanks etc, they are not useless, but seldom used

[floral oxide]

he's talking about the top speed with more things on it

not the drone itself

[vernal eagle]

Right, my bad then

Speed , even with max load, still is enough to do all that I mentioned

Maybe even too much

[floral oxide]

not really, its more that its just dropped out of the sky with multiple. be alot easier to balance if there was a suicide drone rather than letting us stack 5-6 explosives on one drone.

[wise glen]

Naw, c4 drones can insta a tank. That's a little dumb. Especially since we have no tools to know it's coming until it's too late.

[modest panther]

I mean that’s happening irl so...

[vernal eagle]

Yeah, but this is a game, and not even one that tries to be realistic.

There's need to be players agency

[wise glen]

Only to subpar russian tanks...
Our modern tanks in the US see those from a mile away.

[modest panther]

Because US tanks think drone suicide bombs are dumb 😂

[floral oxide]

not like we have ECM fixtures to counter drones already on said tanks

[modest panther]

And we have them because our tanks think drone suicide bombs are dumb

[vernal eagle]

I love c4, nothing beats brain dead cruth avalible to everyone

[whole dome]

i sure do love that my breaching charge also fucks up ifvs and tanks without any drawbacks 🔥

[vernal eagle]

Spamming C4 over hard cover and deleting every wall in sight also is very nice

[whole dome]

that is actually somewhat needed
wakistan

lonovo

[vernal eagle]

Salhan

And no cover after 10 minutes

[whole dome]

salhan when c4 💀

[modest panther]

Need a discord bot that replaces every “buff badger” with “buff c4”

[placid edge]

Every time I throw a gadget such as C4, anti grenade trophy, or anti mine it keeps switching to first weapon and then I have to click the gadget again for it to be placed

[wise glen]

Sounds like #game-bugs

[plucky tree]

Hello, a tank is blown up alone with air drone and c4, it should not be so much

[gray cargo]

The c4's flight speed while throwing should be much faster. the current one feels very strange, as if the character itself can catch up to the c4 in flight, as if the c4 has a separate gravitational constant of the moon. Also the display of c4 in flight is confusing: sometimes it looks like c4 is far enough away to safely explode, but no it's still in your face and you're dead. Furthermore the explosion radius is weird: enemies survive the explosion from the range that kills you. Literally if you blow up the c4 in 2 meters from yourself - you are dead, if 2 meters from the enemy - he is low HP, but alive.

[vernal eagle]

Wait, you want to buff C4?

Deranged idea tbh

[gray cargo]

It's not a buff, I want the use of c4 to be more consistent.

1. the physics of the c4's package is like a helium balloon, I can play a game of chess while the package is flying - it's just silly.
2. Problems with the display while throwing is a bug.
3. the fact that you from the same distance is more likely to kill yourself than the enemy - its unfair and you should kill both.

so it's a fix.