Spawning Mechanics - Feedback

[frosty barn]

Either that, or rework them to be an individual currency that you can build up and keep no matter what squad you're in, but you get bonuses for working with your squad. Yet can still earn them through healing other teammates, but at a slower rate

Rush and CTF are real bad atm

[storm prawn]

makes me sad cauz i play support and its one of the ONLY things it has goingh for it

CTF should allow building it would be cool to see a fucking superfob pop up over flags

mayhaps just have a radius around the flag where it cant be built to prevent crazy stacking?

[lofty lotus]

support got barbed wire for a few days before it got put in the dumpster

[wise shard]

#dev-wip message
Hoping so badly that this makes spawning better

[untold knoll]

That would probably make spawncamping even worse. It's easier for people to get the usually empty first capture point outside of enemy spawn and farm the incoming trickle of defenders, so it becomes even harder to retake the point as they lose squad spawn options. And even if the attackers lose the point, they always can have a rally nearby which must be hunted down, while it doesn't make for defenders to waste points for a rally point in such a close location.

The problem is that way capture points work, you can have a bunch of people hiding all around opposite corners of the base and all your spawns are disabled as long as you don't clear every single one of them out. So holding the point is much harder than disabling it.

Specially because hunting around for enemies means you have to walk and make noise while they can just be sitting in a corner. And they can pick the ideal weapon for the spot they will be camping, while hunting around for them means you have to move through a range of distances, not all of which your weapon will be ideal for.

[untold knoll]

(speaking of which, that AT mine change is an extremely bad idea because it was the only tool one had available to efficiently clear out the area around a capture point and make it actually defendable)

[tender aurora]

I shall state some previously mentioned notes

1. Remove squad spawns from all but the lead,those near the lead and rally points (and those near them)

2. constructable & a squad leader deployable beacon (So one that is just a part of his kit that is on CD and is wave based, other is what we have now but team wide)

[untold knoll]

With a team wide spawn AND squad-specific rallys, entirely removing squad spawning would be fine. Leaving mechanics in place that are not consistent with the rest of a system and in particular are orders of magnitude stronger when used optimally is bad for clarity and noob friendliness.

And also just annoying if you just want to play alone/with randoms and have to face against a squad that is using the mobile leader spawn to maximum effect.

[tender aurora]

idea was both of those

[untold knoll]

Yeah, sorry, I was referring to removing squad spawns from "all but the lead". Even if it's a more restricted scenario, it leads to the situation described above.

[tender aurora]

this was discussed a while ago

but it is in this chat

I summed up the idea that I think @honest rose made

[honest rose]

?

[tender aurora]

effectively the idea of people can spawn on squad lead or anyone near him (Same idea for rallies & the like)

the conversation that I think was roughly 1-4 weeks ago

[honest rose]

Ohh yea, I think that would be preferable to the current system

The games getting better and better, the only gripe I have is one person turning into 8 and the ease in which flanks can be done

[honest rose]

Example just now on District 256 player, North spawn.

The entire game we had two small enemy squads, one on a and one on b, constantly fliping them. Props to them for being well organised but it was very frustrating to play against. You'd think you'd cleared them all out then suddenly the base would flip again. Even if you did manage to kill them all AND get their spawn beacon, one would just run back and start the process over again. Is it effective? Yes very, ~4 people tied up probably twice or more of their number. Is it fun to play against? No, honestly it makes me want to drop the game sometimes

[untold knoll]

Same goes for points outside spawn in Lenovo, Wakistan, Sandysunset, Valley... it's almost like squad spawning is an inherently bad idea.

[frosty barn]

I love doing and fighting against that. But I'm a bf player lol

[honest rose]

I do too (old school BF2/2142 player), but it just feels like the defenders currently have no win condition, it's so attacker-stacked

Best way I can describe it is it currently feels punitive

[frosty barn]

Maybe recon's drone can get thermal vision?

It'd help a lot with clearing areas

[honest rose]

Firstly, yes good idea. Secondly, maps are so open that clearing people out fully only makes it mildly longer before it's back-capped again. About the only map this doesn't happen on is Basra because there's a giant intended choke point in the middle

(and only one person needs to sneak around)

[frosty barn]

I like being able to sneak around personally. There's so many players that it gives you options on how you wanna play. Do you wanna flank like a rat all game or go into the meat grinder?

It is very easy to backcap atm. Not sure how to fix that other than making the maps more narrow, like siege of Shanghai or something.

The game is very backcap focused if you actually want to win. It'd be nice to get some maps that are more push focused. I think adding vehicles that spawn in certain objectives - not just one little bird or humvee, but a tank or two - would help incentivize capturing more than just the back like all the time. Things like ammo resupply points on some objectives (not all), or objectives that have vehicles you can spawn on

I still think we need to be able to see vehicle spawn timers, along with being able to spawn on certain vehicles anytime. Not every vehicle, but maybe just one.

[honest rose]

I have no problems with flanking and sneaking around, I love it, I play it, I do it more than frontline meat grinding. I don't think it should be removed as a gameplay possibility at all.

I think it should be harder to pull off and require dedicated teamwork, this is why I personally push for limiting squad spawns to a radius around the squad leader and spawn beacon.

[frosty barn]

I wouldn't mind it, but the maps are already walking sims so I think it'd create some other problems currently

[tender aurora]

partly why I am up for making two types of rallies

One that is from the squad lead themselves (a part of their kit on a CD and is wave based respawns) and make the current one a team wide

[honest rose]

BBR maps are not walking Sims lmao

2 are maybe "bad" but that's it

Which could be fixed by some additional vehicle spawns at mid bases

[woeful yacht]

If only spawn beacon placement in Grey zones would not be allowed. As enemy's tend to place them near objective area behind a indestructible cover in a zone where you cant fire your weapons. same goes for vehicles.

[slow vault]

I was just thinking about this as I had one far from our spawn but in our grey zone

on.... construction, I think its called? (im horrible with names)

at the top left and right of the map theres perfect spawn beacon locations that are protected by a massive wall

far from spawn, close to the topmost objective

Yeah pretty sure it's called construction

[trim turtle]

Feels bad on frontline, but only because of how fast that mode is. Easy and minor fix would be to extend the time required to cap zones.

but as you said, just spawn some vehicles at other bases!

[honest rose]

Frontline has its own issues such as getting rushed down between points, but yea

You're never more than ~15-20 seconds walk from a fight usually

[trim turtle]

Yea, spawning far back on frontline is only an issue because of being rushed down as you said.

most other modes tend to have people spread a lot more diffusely across the map which makes finding a fight easier as instead of being super clustered in one or two spots most of the map instead exists in a state of low level combat

[honest rose]

The only map I'd say spawn walking is an issue would be multiislands, which no one plays because it's a bad map

[trim turtle]

Sandy sunset can be an issue at times, the cliffs can make you need to take really long detours if there are no ropes

[honest rose]

Be a man! Jump!

But yes south side sucks

[trim turtle]

Up?

Amusingly, valley has some really long walks but i actually enjoy them. Something about it makes me enjoy the journey, probably the longer sightlines? I feel like that one sniper in nam who crawled on his belly for like a mile or something to snipe a dude and then crawled back

[honest rose]

The walk between points isn't far and it's filled with stuff, the only long walk is going around the flanks, which you're prepared for if you're going to take them

It's also pretty linear

[slow vault]

I know itll sound a bit harsh, but I think the people who are most vocally of the opinion that its too long a walk aren't paying attention to their surroundings at all and just going autopilot until they think its time to start fighting again. they dont see everything around them as potential sudden engagement locations, vantage points, detours. just that pesky empty space that exists between the moments of shooting people

coz like... you know all those fights? if theyre not taking place in one designated spot, they are going to happen organically when enemy lines clash and when flankers find targets (or are found themselves). that requires space for it to happen.

[trim turtle]

Meanwhile me while driving home: "hmm, man that room on that building up there would be a pretty nasty sniper spot! I never considered that before"

[slow vault]

see, the day a sniper sets up there youre going to subconsciously notice it and survive

[trim turtle]

Saved myself from being tboned today from a dude blowing a stop sign actually by staying aware like this

[slow vault]

I say what I said honestly because of sniping funny enough

sometimes ill be posted up in a window and the little ducklings just file in a line towards the nearest fight clearly not paying attention

even when the very obvious gunshots start up and the people behind them start dropping

[trim turtle]

"Must have been the wind"

Il say it, pattern recognition is a fucking superpower

[slow vault]

theyre so stuck in autopilot that it doesnt even occurr to them that theyre already in a fight

and I dont even need to be far, earlier today I got I think it was 12 kills less than a block away because they were doing this

in no time at all

if they were actively paying attention, they'd be too busy to be so focused on the distance

[reef rock]

Other thing is how the game atm promotes this tbh

Everyone is moving in ground-based blobs to the point the only thing you need to pay attention to is whether your arrow is in the middle of all the other arrows

The moment someone interrupts that the gameplay loop itself is disrupted (yes our gameplay loop is circly circly find blobby)

So lots of ‘em only see things that disrupt the blob - mines, defensive positions, vehicles - as ‘hindrances’, where their ability to disrupt it on its own is a travesty; and conversely everything else is weak unless it can integrate with the blob

[silent harbor]

Respawn system coupled with the bleeding mechanic is responsible for people being unable to defend a singular point from a push for any substantial amount of time. It makes the aggressor ALWAYS has the advantage in any situation

[lilac talon]

@silent harbor has earned the Tier I Member role!

[reef rock]

it also just comes down to the fact people just don't take big team fights very often anymore

which means people are predisposed, instead of sitting on the point to defend it, constantly running in and out to take advantage of mobility

[silent harbor]

There's no actual frontline in these games. Even in frontline as people just sneak into your territory to flank you

[reef rock]

ergo what little defensive play exists just kinda evaporates

[silent harbor]

There's a good post posted last month

[reef rock]

real

[silent harbor]

this

I'll just repost it

Due to the spawn system you just can't realistically defend anything

If you step-up in a building people will just C4 it down

[untold knoll]

Seriously, many structures are more of a liability than anything else. If someone sees you getting into one of those watchtowers or some other small house, they can just rain C4 on it and blow you up faster than you can even bandage.

Speaking of blowing stuff up, another recent abuse of the spawn system I've noticed is spawncamping engis. Tandem is supposed to be balanced by its reduced ammo capacity, but when people can just respawn on their mates when they run out of ammo, they don't even need to rely on support or call a supply crate. The only cost incurred is on the team as it loses a ticket, but the person doing so is not in any way penalized for it.

[tender aurora]

pretty sure that was a meme on walks (not saying it is inaccurate)

I will say this, best way I have found to defend a building is tight hesco walls

just fortify the outside with those to prevent easy C4 detonation & setup holes to shoot from

but yea C4 is just Everywhere now a days

[honest rose]

limit c4 to recons and engineers :3

[tender aurora]

I am up for that

just give support the sledge & pick in trade

[untold knoll]

Never gonna happen, be serious. :P

[tender aurora]

I'll be honest I could see swapping recon with assault through

[untold knoll]

Buuuut I think dropping the gear slot and combining it with throwables could fix a lot of the issues, C4 is a better impact grenade anyway so it would force people to choose between its low-range versatility or the improved anti-personnel capabilities of the frag or utility of smoke.

[honest rose]

Not with that attitude!

Give c4 to recon for saboteur role, give it to engineer for demolition role. Keep assault with sledge and pick, remove from support/medic

assault, medic and support should fear the armored vehicle, the armored vehicle should fear the enginner and recon

[tender aurora]

Yeti I shall again request that support gets a way to change buildings to help setup defenses

[honest rose]

They do, they build stuff fast

[tender aurora]

well instantly but what I mean is

[thick skiff]

we DEFINITELY need less reasons to use assault

[tender aurora]

say I want to knock out a wall for X reason, I would have no way to without swapping

[honest rose]

or..... teamwork?

[tender aurora]

true be it ,we've been seeing the recent medic thing currently

[honest rose]

or invent a gadget which can be used to destroy walls without being a threat to vehicles or something, like a breaching charge

[tender aurora]

Well that is why I suggested just giving the sledge and/or pick to support

[honest rose]

yea thats fine

[tender aurora]

removing the C4 in trade for one or both of those

[honest rose]

zero problem with that

[slow vault]

breaching charges feel like the obvious answer

could be identical to C4 but does barely anything to vehicles or people

[untold knoll]

Look, I personally haaaate the way C4 is so versatile at the moment and would not mind seeing it largely disappear from the game, but I think that completely removing a class' option to take it would not be a good change. Very likely you'd just end with lobbies that are 60% medic 30% engi and 10% everything else. It would probably be even worse for vehicles if the net result is having more RPGs hanging around the map.

But I also agree that the way anyone can confidently stroll up to a full HP tank is quite bullshit. So I'd go with limiting carrying capacity severely for the non-demolition oriented classes to just 2.

[trim turtle]

The lack of this is the only reason why i hesitate at the mention of removing cr from support

im fine with losing the ability to damage vehicles (support shouldnt be threatening them anyways) but the modification of terrain is a pretty big part of support's schtick

[untold knoll]

To be fair how often do you see a support player trying to rush a vehicle? You could probably drive the tank in circles around them and never have them catch up.

[trim turtle]

When i play modes with vehicles i shred the fuck out of them if i didnt use all my c4 to deforest the map or something.

7 c4 base with another +15 from packs is pretty insane

[untold knoll]

Yessssss.

:3

[tender aurora]

only takes 4 to kill a tank

[teal lintel]

Battlefield spawning mechanism is really bad for tactics but is great for deathmatch FFA. Spawning on allies should be difficult instead of anywhere except "ally in the fight". Best one for tactical games is "spawn by squad leader beacon" + "spawn by few persons". Thats better for teamplay and tactics, you always work as a group but leader can force your respawn in last save point, he should drop it before. There are the timer of respawn like "30sec per respawn" or leader could "respawn all members right now". Currently random respawn system everywhere on teammates makes game fully random, that removes tactics. 70% times you die by random prepositions, only 30% by skill issues, because you never sure that this wall cover 1 person or maybe 10 already (in last 5 seconds 8 persons spawned there).
1 more respawn idea was in Helldivers too. Any teammate has an ability to call respawn for all died members right now right here. Also ability has a reload. Actually when die you can respawn yourself, you can only shake your squad passport (if you press any key) on teammates screen. Helldivers idea is in that your squad dies if nobody calls respawn and all members died.

[tender aurora]

would add the fact it was also kinda well Notable on when respawns happened based, same for PS2's respawn beacon (squad only, big light in sky of your faction color and the drop pods were notable)

[untold knoll]

To be fair in PS2 the beacons were quite small and you could put them in very cheeky locations and all surfaces were indestructible. Trying to put a rally point on top of a tiny antenna in Battlebit would already make it a very obvious target and you could just take the antenna itself down. So I think their current visibility is alright.

[tender aurora]

Well I am not saying they need that level of notice

simply was noting afew facts & added a additional comparison

[honest rose]

I wouldn't mind spawn beacons becoming smaller/harder to find if squad spawn mechanics changed

Again, ideally, a leader-only gadget that doesn't require squad points

Preferably with some kind of moving element as well as noise, like the trophy

[tender aurora]

I am up for that

could also do wave based so it is a touch more obvious if they take the straightest route

[untold knoll]

Feels like that would be good for promoting cohesion among casuals too.

[tender aurora]

two birds with one stone

[honest rose]

Two headshots with one M200 round

[flat acorn]

I do think there should be a grace period for when a target is considered in combat, can be annoying sometimes to spawn on them.

As for beacons, I'm with the current iteration but they can be quite loud.

Much like as the example above, finding the spawn point in PS2 is either up in the sky or following the trail of lemming's back to their hidden spawn mobile spawn point.

I do this with BB beacons too

[snow flume]

yeah. feels like we just went from one extreme to another with the "out of combat vs in combat" stuff. not that that really does anything about the fact you can spawn on squadmates at all, but i feel like thats already a very dead horse

[frosty barn]

I think it feels better now personally, but I'm also a battlefield fan so I'm used to clown cars of people appearing. It would be interesting if you couldn't squad spawn inside a capture point, but that might be kind of annoying

[merry raven]

Would be interesting if squad spawns are disabled inside hostile obj

So attackers can be better repelled, that they have to regroup right outside the obj before another assault attemp

Instead of clown carring and contesting at the same time.

And would give closer recons a good purpose

[fresh carbon]

Thats basically frontline i cant lie

[untold knoll]

Would disproportionately impact randoms though. Currently it's already annoying enough to wait for one of your guys to stop shooting at shit they can't even hit so you can spawn on them. Imagine hoping they will also pay attention to their position relative to the circle.

[frosty barn]

Yea, this is why I didn't think it'd work great

You have to assume everyone isn't working together 100% of the time

[dry wigeon]

ive noticed it wont even block spawns when youre shooting/getting shot at, it blocks it a lot if people are nearby

i spawn so often on squadmates that are just getting blasted by 5 enemies, while i cant spawn on a guy on the roof of a building because theres a random on the 2nd floor that doesnt even know of his existence

[frosty barn]

I rat on peeps with this lol

I'll be like "yo there's someone near ya"

[slow vault]

Same

[untold knoll]

@tender aurora regarding your partial resupply on respawn idea, I think giving full supplies from rally points would be fine as well.

[tender aurora]

is up for debate

if we do rallies can full restock on respawn it could just end up similar but now squad leaders actually use rallies (possibly,maybe, hopefully)

[solar tartan]

I just don’t think it fits well with the pacing of the game. It’s fast, it’s frantic. Making infantry run all the way back to a point to get their gadget filled when they spawn would just be a huge time suck, and it would make it way too easy for vehicles to lock those points down.

[tender aurora]

keep in mind the other field options than just a construction at the point

supply drops & support both do exist

It would limit the long term time based on usage

I do agree on that

[solar tartan]

Yeah, but all of those things rely pretty heavily on playing with your squad. And as nice as it is to play with your squad, not everyone wants to do that.

[tender aurora]

Than you have support & assault

you equally have the construction points

you equally have the main base & air drops

You have options in other words

unless you plan to fire a rocket at everythingtype idea (in which case you may want to be near the CP option since it would be unlimited)

But to sum up, this is suppose to be a team game

so expecting playing with your squad to be better than lone wolfing is not too much of a stretch

equally you always have the blue berry supports & assaults to assist in this as well

so your main issue would be operating away from your team in it's entirity and not wanting/being capable to call in a air drop or be near a point to resupply off of every so often based on usage

[untold knoll]

I think the concerns about alienating solo players are overblown. In Planetside people would just automatically heal/revive and supply their nearby teammates because it was both a source of XP and simply a good idea to keep your allies in tip top shape and be a more effective fighting force.

[tender aurora]

because you will ALWAYS have some primary & secondary ammo with how I envision my idea on a spawn

[tender aurora]

also this

players are incentived to support each other with xp (medics can heal 1 HP & gain 51 xp type idea)

[untold knoll]

The amount of "soloness" observed right now is a consequence of what the system enables and not necessarily indicative of something people are extremely attached to.

If this interdependence was increased a tad, people would quickly adapt and help each other out of sheer empathy (yeah, and XP rewards ofc).

[tender aurora]

currently to use what the system is

When you spawn in, you are at full. Always.

[untold knoll]

An alternative to giving people half empty loadouts, which I think is kinda weird, could be to make it so Assault is the only class that you can use for squad spawning

That would basically be its "perk", the ability to reinforce positions all across the map

The rest of specialized kits you would only have access from rally points or spawn points

[tender aurora]

who said half empty

Simply not a full restock everytime you respawn (always allow at least 2-3 magazines in both the primary & secondary + a bandage or two, even if they used up all their mags & such) so if you say fire a rocket off, you respawn in (not at Home base which would restock you fully automatically) and you have the same rockets you died with

[untold knoll]

So basically I could spawn at base, then hit the respawn button to show up somewhere else with my full loadout?

[tender aurora]

True, equally at the moment that would double your ticket loss

and your death count as well (respawns from what I have noted just counts as a death thus subtract accordingly)

be it i feel people would pick other options such as supports & air drops than die > respawn at base > die > spawn at current place

keep in mind this is the current options which more could be added

such as previously mentioned ammo constructables around CPs

[untold knoll]

I really don't think anyone cares about this tbh

[tender aurora]

true but equally I know people who do care about their KDR

[untold knoll]

Those won't be the ones rushing you with C4 and respawning just to keep raining tandems on your spawn, which is the main issue anyway

[gaunt summit]

There are maps where it's kinda easy to abuse the whole invincible spawn zone. There are probably also maps where it's a bit harder and I am just too dumb to find a way.
Why not make people invincible only after they spawn, so returning to the zone later won't give invincibility?

[reef rock]

because the problem isn't the zone and just the map borders/design

[untold knoll]

Without invincibility you can get C4 droned all the way into a vehicle repair zone

Or just be hit by someone using tandems like a mortar

[fresh carbon]

Fr?

[untold knoll]

Yes, look at the distance of River spawns from the end of the safezone

Vehicles can get permanently locked in spawn by a big enough group of engi assholes

Same for Lonovo

[pearl crystal]

It's possible on most maps with few exeptions

Valley, Salhan

On other maps squad of tandem warriors can block of spawn easily

[untold knoll]

Valley spawns are too far away for drones and you have a lot more space to maneuever out of the zone, but forgot about Salhan, ye

[pearl crystal]

Slahan have a lot of cover, and you can peak to kill them easily

Or go by water with APC

[untold knoll]

Yeah that's the safest approach

As long as someone doesn't try to drone you cause then you can't move fast enough to get away from it

[pearl crystal]

Drones are the future of warfare fr

[teal lintel]

===========
guess spawning mechanics on almost all the modes should be a little redesigned. ideal work we could see on "capture flag" mode where no spawning points available, you keep your team alive to respawn.
anyway spawning on the teammates should be a gift instead of prefer option. BF sniper drops respawn point, only deathmatch mode allows to respawn on allies nearby.

respawn on mates is very powerful thing. you never know you destroyed all enemies that captures your points. That makes domination unplayable with that "restriction zone" that forbid you to shoot and heal, does damage, and so on. In same time if you spawn on teammate you never know is he under enemy control from nearest building, you spawn and gets down immediate, and you cant solve this = game has too fast gamestyle to decide WHERE you have to spawn.

guess respawn should be designed by "waves" inside your squad. yes, if the leader of teammate would be required to do any action for that - it becomes boring. BETTER just create one timer per squad that respawns all mates then restarts instead of personal one. so if you're not in squad - you are "squad-person" so you have personal timer. "next respawn in 5...4....3...." all members spawned. And yes - there should be points for that action like dropped by sniper class or nearest controlled point.

The point you should think about - how to do with the idea every person wants a different spawning point... for now. What we should force players to select available and in same time recommended point for all the squad... Also Arma3 idea that you spawn on nearest ambulance truck is a bad one, because respawn point is SINGLE. Few snipers could destroy all the team. So maybe main idea is SHOW circles near available points and show WHERE every person plants a marker on his map (being dead) allowing you to place nearby and wait until spawn wave happens.

[short wyvern]

Controversy idea

• no longer can spawn on any squad mate
• spawn points become usniversal for the team
• you can still spawn on squad leader ( makes it more important) squad leader can be voted out if they are being bad
• there have to be at least 5 players contesting a point so the enemy can’t spawn on it )
• that will promote actuall defense of points and possibly stop back capping which is bad on many maps

I think this will promote team play a lot and also maybe you have to be level 30 to be squad leader

What do y’all think

[wispy nexus]

the 4th point I think needs some tweaking. it sounds good on paper but might swing a defense to far in the other direction and make it nearly impossible to cap without the whole team.

[short wyvern]

Yup I may edit that later

Not such a good idea

[tender aurora]

I know a good number who wouldn't disagree with this, and I kinda feel it isn't controversal by much (several ideas tossed around in the thread previously mentioned many of these)

[wispy nexus]

Before I forget, if devs want to keep rally to SL only. Add temp spawners with a couple of spawns each, maybe enough for the full squad(maybe a clan squad so however many are in that) that have are cheaper to place, and can be placed by anyone in the squad

[tender aurora]

12 if I recall correctly

[reef rock]

another thing you could do is make temp spawners that cost squad points, and leave permanent spawners (of higher cost of course) to the SL imo

[wispy nexus]

well that is what I meant by "cheaper to place"

[teal lintel]

Please, after getting death do not focus camera on enemy because its randomly shakes and rotates few seconds, then only focused. Eyes pain from that. If you wanna show killer, do like in Team Fortress 2 - camera instantly moves to target and does something like photo or snapshot (freezes the moment), that helps your IRL health ! Second idea - just realize camera and highlight bullet trace. Also you can connect the camera to PLACE where enemy was on last shoot.

[tender aurora]

bit odd place to put this

[short wyvern]

Random

[teal lintel]

I dont know where, and also i cant create topics in suggestions...

[short wyvern]

I would prefer it doesn’t go to the enemy at all , your camera just falls with your dead body and then you take control

[teal lintel]

Milsim variant, agreed for me, if kill-cam would be disabled on server side

[mighty ermine]

squad spawning is kind of shitty i constantly spawn on a dude thats out of combat and 3ms later 12 enemies appear out of knowhere giving me no time to react

isnt there supposed to be a thing where if a enemy is looking at u its considered in combat

cause it doesnt seem to be working

[wispy nexus]

people thought it was too harsh. now its the other end of the spectrum. at this point why have it block spawning at all, let us take our own risk, we can see what's going on when we click on a spawn point.

[echo lichen]

i shoot at someone, the mofo commits mytosis and suddenly there are 2-3 more of him there...
they don't take damage flick to me and i get lit up by 3 guys simultaniusly
i spawn on a mate, i'm instantly dead
10/10 spawning system

just remove spawning on people and make spawn beacons be more of a team wide thing
(this would make transport vehicles actually important)
fix bipod and bring scorpion to assault.

[pure nexus]

Please enable spacebar input to beacon 2 seconds before spawn become possible.

[short wyvern]

• no longer can spawn on any squad mate
• spawn points become usniversal for the team
• you can still spawn on squad leader ( makes it more important) squad leader can be voted out if they are being bad
• there have to be at least 5 players contesting a point so the enemy can’t spawn on it )
• that will promote actuall defense of points and possibly stop back capping which is bad on many maps

[wispy nexus]

could also lead into a lesser spawn timer since there is less places to spawn overall.

[untold knoll]

I will never support a system that gives any significance to the leader role beyond kicking members and setting waypoints (including the current one)

It introduces an unnecessary level of heterogeneity in the player experience based on who they are lucky enough to have as leader and all of that extra "kick a bad leader" bullshit that gets in the way of just playing the game

[reef rock]

yeah, honestly i understand that

[wispy nexus]

literally makes it so SL needs to exist, + buffs to actual spawns, but still dislikes it despite being the one to put forward nearly all the ideas mentioned.

[untold knoll]

SL does not need to exist. Planetside 2 worked perfectly fine for people who wanted to go solo because the spawns were global. It also worked fine for people who got autoassigned to random squads with uninteractive leaders because they could still place spawns on their own. And it obviously worked well for people who were in a squad and actually wanted to make use of those additional functions by having separate comms and waypoints (+ up to 4 smoke signals which essentially also worked as waypoints) to facilitate prioritizing targets and navigating the battlefield.

So all SL provided was an extra layer of "nice to have" communication features.

No crucial features were locked behind the position and doing so would have greatly hurt the casual experience.

[wispy nexus]

So basically, you like everything, but because the want of a single role to have a single extra ability, you hate it.

[untold knoll]

Yes? Anything that locks people out from freely having access to something sucks ass. That's why almost nobody supports class limits or part of the reason the LittleBird is a shit experience for most people in a lobby.

[wispy nexus]

you put forward the idea in the first place

make up your damn mind then

as it is, you are just ignoring everything else other than "SL counts as a spawner". Do you forget that the spawn beacons don't exist in certain gamemodes?

[untold knoll]

But it's a half assed compromise to make it more palatable for the community. I'm personally in favor of removing squad spawns, full stop.

[wispy nexus]

again, you are missing the majority of the ideas put forward, many of which you already agreed with

[untold knoll]

I don't think you mentioned the restrict stuff to SL thing previously. If squad spawning were to remain - which I don't like but also think is unlikely to change soon, then some of the other stuff I agree with, like resupply restrictions on respawns.

Actually I had already told you my position regarding keeping SL spawns here #1138744599905579058 message

So yeah just because I agree with a lot of the things, including small tweaks to the current system which I overall dislike doesn't mean I agree with all the things ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[wispy nexus]

yeah, just kill spawning on certain gamemodes, or with inactive squads then. that's what you are trying to go for.

[untold knoll]

1. I mostly only care about Conq and Conq-like modes
2. Spawning in Frontline is shit even with squad spawning; it completely relies on you having at least one squaddie with enough neurons to track the rest of squadmates and hang back to allow respawns on them. But that game mode can't be discussed in terms of spawn mechanics alone, the boundaries that each map gets also greatly affect the dynamics, which is one of the big reasons I don't like it. Highly inconsistent experience.
3. CTF and other arcadey team deathmatch-like modes could obviously keep squad spawning, that's no big deal since there's no fixed map flow that is broken by it.

[wispy nexus]

so half the game. got it. having player abilities be changed is not something easy or worth to do. so stop pushing for things that would purely only work in your "preferred modes", and look at the entire game.

[untold knoll]

Conquest was pretty much the entire game until the vote system changed XD

And one size fits all solutions never fit anyone at all, you just end up with a half-assed compromise

[wispy nexus]

your idea is literally a half assed compromise lol

[untold knoll]

Because it works perfectly in the one situation it's meant to and doesn't affect anything else outside of it? Kk

[wispy nexus]

doesn't affect anything outside of it?

my man you are literally trying to make the game try to have multiple player mechanics active, that could change on a round to round basis

[untold knoll]

As if the game mode does not already change other mechanics, rally points are already not always available lol

[wispy nexus]

you are actually and idiot if you would think that would work, or require work that the devs can do without focusing purely on that.

player mechanics are unchanged.

there is very few games that change what a player can do as basics

the various abilities and menus are one thing, but the basic "player" roles are not changed.

to do something like that you would need to alter the entire server, every time

[untold knoll]

I mean if you want me to propose more stuff I would just remove Frontline and replace it with something like Rush with wave spawns and points that can be permanently destroyed. As for CTF, you could actually have islands of safe zones close to the flag area instead of the weird spawn zones off to the corner. There you go. :D

[untold knoll]

I don't think that's how technology works but ok :P

[wispy nexus]

thats how servers work bud.

[untold knoll]

Uhh, wanna define what "alter the entire server" constitutes exactly?

You already need to load stuff again even when you change maps while keeping the same mode

[untold knoll]

Also, both CTF and Frontline still have the "Experimental" label on them, so...

[wispy nexus]

the server parameters do not change between modes or maps

those are things like player speed, spawn timers, locations, etc...

you can build on top of said paramters to make the various game modes, but the baseline is the same

to change it, you would need to reset the server, alter said parameters you wish to change, than restart the server

this is also how you change what gamemodes/maps are available for something like the Comm servers.

[untold knoll]

Uh-huh. Sounds like something they should work on then. Pretty sure community server hosts would appreciate the added flexibility anyway.

[wispy nexus]

work on? thats not something you can just change bud.

it would need to be built into the game, and if its not there at the start, rebuilding the game to allow that to happen.

[untold knoll]

Do you actually have game dev experience and specific knowledge about the internals of BBR to claim that?

[wispy nexus]

Com servers might be able to run it, because they can afford to go down whenever they need too.

[wispy nexus]

I know how servers work, and unless there has been a massive breakthrough in the last 6 months, that knowledge isn't out of date.

[untold knoll]

BBR community servers didn't exist 6 months ago did they?

[wispy nexus]

that's completly different.

allowing servers to run on a game is not altering parameters while a server is still running

there is plenty of people who would love to be able to do that, and have been trying to do so for at least 2 decades, probably longer. So if the devs decide to spend time and money to figure it out, the entire gaming industry would love to know how if they figure it out.

[untold knoll]

Uhhh. Huh. I don't think you actually know what you're talking about my man. And I don't care either way, whether something is or is not within Oki's technical budget is for him to decide, I'm just here to propose high level ideas.

Would be interested to get a source for your claims tho

[wispy nexus]

sure. "high level Ideas" that would fuck over half of the game and the official servers, and basically any server not running 24/7 conq.

[wispy nexus]

you have a computer. I actually have better things to do now than to send you links you could search yourself faster than I could find them and send to you.

[untold knoll]

Yeah, I use my computer to write software libraries on a daily basis, so I have the feeling I would have stumbled upon such knowledge earlier if it was so obvious. :P

[wispy nexus]

sure you do.

[untold knoll]

But maybe it's some specialized game dev stuff, which I dunno why you would expect any random person to have knowledge of?

[wispy nexus]

so did the last 10 guys who claimed that

[untold knoll]

Well, you were right, seems I was able to find an example of a game where that works before you could show me how it doesn't XD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQr1GDwVE3Y

And that seems to be far more extensive changes than just "server parameters"

[untold knoll]

Oh actually I think this is even an example of Oki doing exactly that while showcasing community server features #dev-wip message

This one is directly related to changing spawning mechanics on the fly
#dev-wip message

Anyway, seems like a solved problem then :D

[short wyvern]

@untold knoll what’s your idea to fix spawning

[vital cargo]

Spawning needs to be gutted and redone. I am fucking tired of chasing single targets into empty buildings and being met by a clown car full of enemies coming down the stairs. I'm sick of spawning on squadmates who are literally taking fire from for different people and an APC. I'm exhausted of every domination game resulting in spawn pushing- that's right, in the game mode with no vehicles, somehow the squad spawn mechanics are so fucked up that every single match is just a death push, a towering wave of people being sharted out their squadmates' asses until they reach something they are literally not allowed to pass (the spawn zone). Old spawning was better than this

Sometimes I'm literally firing on someone and I see three people spawn on them and suddenly it's gone from a 1v1 to a 1v3

[untold knoll]

1. Kill squad spawning entirely.
2. Give all squad members access to rally points which they can place at no cost, limited only by a person-specific cooldown (avoids trolls wasting the squad's rally). New rallies always overwrite previous ones, but squad leaders can "lock" a currently existing rally to prevent this (this means an inactive leader won't hurt the squad but an active one can help prevent randos from messing things up).
   Everything else works the same (e.g. you can still spawn into vehicles around cap points and in main base).

I know that some modes don't allow rallies but I don't really see what the problem would be with changing that (it's basically the same thing as having one squad member hanging back), of course I would love to hear feedback from non-Conq enjoyers as to why that may be a problem.

[short wyvern]

now everyone tick that

although i think having it so there must be 5 enemies on a point so its contested is till a good idea

otherwise one guy will not let u spawn on point which sucks

[untold knoll]

Yes, even if spawning remains the same, the volatility of cap points is something I also find quite annoying and counterproductive as it turns defending into mostly a chore.

The minimum number of attackers is one potential idea, might need to be calibrated based on player counts.

Another possibility would be to make the time to flip the point independent of number of attackers and still allow spawns while there's "team color" left in the marker. E.g: 1 minute starts ticking down the moment an enemy enters the area and continues to do so until allies outnumber enemies. To avoid making it too easy for defenders to swarm the attackers, contested capture points could have a longer spawn delay (e.g. must hold spawn button for 5 seconds).

Other option is to have spawn waves, so you'd have to queue and say every 10 seconds the first 8 people in the queue are spawned in. Feels like that might be too complicated tho.

[short wyvern]

Maybe a bit too complicated

First we need something g along the lines. If you can’t spawn on random squad mates and see how it plays

[untold knoll]

Indeed, I'm always in favor of careful and gradual rollouts over sudden massive changes

[wispy nexus]

having just woken up, I have no recollection of any of this conversation we had, I was so hopped up on meds last night. Sorry I seemed to be a bit of an ass, sleep deprivation plus my meds didn't seem to mix well

[untold knoll]

All good my dude, take care

[echo lichen]

ok, so i when i dump half my ultimax mag into someone because of skill issue, hit reg and internet and a mate just flurmpin' spawns on them there is smth srsly wrong with the "in combat" system
i could list all the bs situations that have happened pretty frequently but then i'd sound like a broken record sooooooo fuck this shit

[reef rock]

thought: why not just have more points, smaller ones with less individual ticket bleed, and more spread out across maps?

especially in lots of the 'adapted' maps, per se, we've got these huge valleys with minor chokes/isolated points of interest that would do as smaller objectives

furthermore they provide lots of other benefits too imo

• alt spawns for players who are inf only
• easier access to large sections of the maps not traversible by vehicles (e.g isle)
• offer additional incentives to play in smaller, more dispersed groups, and providing more inflexion points for big fights to occur as opposed to wash-over blob fights

[untold knoll]

Hmm, I had an idea along those lines, it's simultaneously more complicated but also simpler than the capture point system. Instead of capture points, just have multiple small sectors that divide all the territory of the map. Any sector that has people from both teams stays neutral and also makes all adjacent sectors neutral. Empty sectors that become surrounded by sectors of a given team automatically go over to their side.

It's easier because there's no longer any need to think about capture point specifics like radius, cap speed, etc. People just play to push the enemies back which is fairly intuitive.

Also ticket bleed happens in proportion to the sector differential, so it's actually possible for a team at say 100 tickets make a comeback as opposed to the current system that makes both teams bleed based on enemy points.

As for spawns, some spawnable areas could be scattered around and usable only when the sector is under your team's control. But they could probably be denser than the current capture point distribution

[wispy nexus]

that sounds like a better version of frontlines

[untold knoll]

I feel like Frontline tries to solve the chaos that Conq has due to its capture point system, but indeed, I think a more adequate Frontline implementation + vehicles would probably make for a better Conq, which is my idea did take some inspiration from that mode.

[wispy nexus]

I honestly wouldn't mind that for the larger modes. and keep the more traditional style for the smaller.

[pearl crystal]

Basically Planetside 2 beacons
I really like that

[short wyvern]

That would make too much visual clutter imo there’s already too much stuff on my screen unluess they change a setting or two, that’s too many big blue things where I’m trying to shoot

But I like the idea

[reef rock]

oh definitely, and i seriously think lucuma's idea is quite an improvement

and - this isn't related to spawning mechanics on their own - we need an option to change the size of the obj markers

jesus christ i have been killed too any times being blinded by the big blue a

[untold knoll]

Absolutely annoying, yep. But I am pretty sure you can in fact change their size. Ofc the problem is that when they're small enough to not annoy you, then it's not so easy to see when you want to quickly check the status of the point or where you're headed.

I think I would prefer moving them to the compass, earlier CoD titles used to do this.

[wispy nexus]

I just made them smaller and lowered the opacity of the non-target areas. works well enough for me since I tend to stay by the order objective than not.

[marble sun]

PS2 spawn system had its problems but this is the most reasonable solution for BBR, as this game isn't planetside either.

[echo lichen]

i love how i spawn on someone and die, only gets better with bad internet 10/10

[tender aurora]

I will make a note not all spawns were global (Example beacons)

[tender aurora]

I will say this , I would be up for SL getting a CD based rally beacon

[blissful mist]

This, so much, so so much

[pearl crystal]

"Worked" as if, implying it was in past

Man, PS2 is not dead, yet

It's close tho

[untold knoll]

Yep :(

[tender aurora]

Kinda hoping they release a PS3 (heard they were working on it)

[plush lance]

I agree. Right now it feels impossible to defend a capture point because I can't spawn on a capture point that is being captured by enemies.

[honest rose]

Remove squad spawn except for squad leader and beacon, give leader free-of-charge spawn beacon as equipment (give them two, but only one can be placed at a time, no cooldown, smaller/harder to see than built beacon, but easier to kill). Make reviving squadmates 1/3rd faster than reviving non-squadmates

Or something like previously stated, can only squad spawn on squadmates near the leader or beacon

#1138744599905579058 message

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138744599905579058/1141772957941764096/image.png

[idle night]

yeah, it's like, really fucking annoying, on either end of the interaction. it's not fun to have people perform mitosis when you're shooting at them, and it's not fun to spawn directly into enemy fire

this happened to me the other day and i was appalled more than anything

[echo lichen]

i love losing 1v1s that magically turn into 1v2,3,4...

[slow vault]

nonsense like this really needs to stop. its so exhausting. I dont even care what its replaced with at this point

unless theyre out in the open its impossible to wipe a squad at range. I run in to stuff like that clip more times a game than I can keep track of

I can visibly see the frustration as goobie reloaded there ffs lol

but, their mistake for not just playing engi and tossing a heat in there ig. only way to deal with it

[echo lichen]

imagine to gun that down nahhh, they turn 360° no scope headshot you and then turn into another 20 fungi cells

[echo lichen]

mytosis ❤️

[idle night]

got another lovely example the other day

[tender aurora]

Ow

[untold knoll]

Zzzz just had a game with a couple of cunts hiding somewhere outside of sandysunset spawn dronebombing tanks all game long

I'm uninstalling this shit for good until squad spawning is removed 😴

[storm prawn]

istg at this point ill just go back to playing squad, yea some of the players are assholes and its a lil bit complicated but at least squad knows what it wants to be.

[slow vault]

Ive thought about trying that as well, but worried its too "serious" of a game

that glock clip is utter nonsense

why are they even allowed to spawn at that range

youre literally in suppressed automatic pistol range. what more do they want.

[wispy nexus]

squad ain't that serious unless you are the SL, and even the its simply remember to place down the spawners.

[tender aurora]

Squad is another arcade milsim mix, leans more into the milsim

in comparison to BBR it is more serious but in equal measure you can still easily goof around & do wacky stuff (used to play like two years back with buddies

(Still recall playing with a buddy just doing mortars & such)

[wispy nexus]

long as you don't steal the helos you can do what ever you want and most won't care

[tender aurora]

Pretty much follow the server's rules and such, most won't care in general

[merry raven]

Play arma, coordinate with quadcopters to use AGL MRAP as automatic mortar.

[tender aurora]

will say, The rocket artillery insurgent trucks were fun

very when you did it & had enough time to get to a spot to see yourself how it did

[merry raven]

Slingload a Ute to a Chinook, have 4 people with titan AT/AP launchers 😂

[waxen glacier]

I hate being able to clear all but one of a squad, and then having all the enemies I've killed just spawn back at the last guy

[frosty barn]

It's just how BF style spawning works. Unless they decouple spawning from players I don't think this problem will go away. You could make it so people can't spawn while capping, but then people will just sit slightly outside the objectives

I think showing a number or an abstract bar to represent how many of each team there are on the obj might help it be a little less frustrating currently without having to redesign the entire system just yet

Then if a guy gets away you can probably sus it out

[echo lichen]

the amount of times i've now died to my enemy mytosing infront of me, while shooting and hitting them is a joke...

[waxen glacier]

It's not just that. I'll shoot at someone, get two hits in, and then someone else will spawn on them and whip around to shoot me. This also means the new guy starts eating the bullets

Which means I end up with no kills, two half health guys, and me dead

[echo lichen]

that's what i meant, already got a meme name "mytosis" one cell deviding into two

[wispy nexus]

I mean that was badgers thing from enlisted no?

[blissful mist]

Spawn on teammate
Teammate is in the sight line of a tank
Immediately dies
Spawn on another teammate
Grenade lands as I spawn
Immediately dies
Spawn on another another teammate
Is in the line of fire of three different enemies
Immediately dies

In combat rules should be drastically upped because that shit is responsible for so many unnecessary deaths

[echo lichen]

shoots at enemy, should be half dead at this point

mytosis into 2 or more enemies

my aim goes apeshit trying to hit all of them

they do a 360° and start shooting

i die, even tho they should have all been bleeding by that point or not had have time to react 10/10

[marble sun]

the BF spawn system is crap in a large format such as 127x127, so even if they tighten the spawn conditions significantly it still won't fully address the problem, but it's a start.

[frosty barn]

I feel like tightening the spawn conditions will feel way worse in the long run if it's done wrong. So as long as the changes are measured I think it'll be fine. Like if you get shot maybe you shouldn't be able to be spawned on for like 10-15 seconds

[slow vault]

it might make it worse, but its easy enough to roll it back after figuring out that it doesnt. better to make a few mistakes while finding what works than to just sit here like this forever. had a full squad jump out of one dude today like 1 frame before I domed him with a slow firing weapon from maybe 15m out

was not enjoyable

[true lantern]

For a "battlefield/squad like" player power levels are off the charts

Spawning anywhere with squad sizes of 8, 7 C4 with the throwing arm of Zeus, SMGs outrunning tanks, the list goes on

[slow vault]

Engineers having a good running pace with 10 mags an arm full of grenades a box of rockets a stack of landmines a bunch of bandages and armor

Never really thought about it, kinda funny

[snow flume]

you- youre making a lot of sense tbh.

[slow vault]

only support is allergic to a good run speed

[snow flume]

support is allergic to being well balanced in general

the fact that support merely getting the ability to supply other players on the move (and cant even self-supply on the move) was considered a huge W for support shows just how starved for anything decent the role is lmao

[slow vault]

hey now, it has the ability to hold down the trigger and let everyone with an rpg or sniper on the map know where it is

dont forget that, total plus

[snow flume]

shit youre right. frankly it is the best class at getting shot by RPGs because of how god damn slow it is

[slow vault]

as someone who plays one, really with the negatives werent so rough for it. durability means nothing unless youre the CoD equivilant of a juggernaut, especially since armor cant be healed

[idle night]

armor being irreplaceable isn't that bad, the real issue with support is how little the exo armor actually covers. with your limbs being so big, you often die without your enemy ever hitting the armor

[snow flume]

nah, helmets being one-and-done deals isnt so bad, but chest armour being able to be permanently depleted is still. its the reason people just dont bother running it at all. its only marginally useful, and only once

[slow vault]

ime exo helmet is more beneficial due to its greater cover than health. take a beefy hit to the head and that helmet is just barely more useful than one a tier below

so none of the armor being repairable just makes it not feel valuable, especially when considering youre so slow you are taking more damage due to not being able to reposition

might as well just tie a ball and chain around their ankle instead, same end result

[pearl crystal]

Who would have guessed, that allowing everyone to be good at anything and putting 254 people in one place would be problematic

[tender aurora]

slow, defensive based & how armor doesn't help vs RPGs

[tender aurora]

forgot that also making you able to sneakly teleport people on top of one another

[reef rock]

It gotta put it into perspective that not even call of duty does this
2 lethals and 2 tacticals max with a recharging ability, and consistently lower ammo counts. The actual arcade arena shooter has more player restrictions than this

[wispy nexus]

squad spawning seems to be the source of alot of the woes this game has going on.

[tender aurora]

yep

Worse part, I image a good deal of the community will intially hate removing it (not saying all, just a sizable amount at least)

[true lantern]

Because at base it feels good to have instant action

[wispy nexus]

oh yeah, removing it will need a serious amount of concessions/alternate spawning mechanics for it to work, a single spawner that can be knocked out with a bullet or two even if it isn't destroyed won't be able to support that.

[true lantern]

People will not accept off the bat that instant action is not just a good thing

[wispy nexus]

while true, spawning in the fight faster is great, spawning in the fight is not gonna work long term

[tender aurora]

Yep

[true lantern]

You could simulate something similar by making the in combat parameters really oppressive

[tender aurora]

it will be a pulling off the bandaid moment

[true lantern]

But that'll leave people sitting in the squad menu

[tender aurora]

I am up for adding more spawn options

[true lantern]

I've been telling people that now is the time for big changes to things like medic or C4 or squad spawning

But I keep getting brushed aside

Super frustrating

[wispy nexus]

that was launch day

[tender aurora]

aye fair

[wispy nexus]

now we just pull fucking "mitosis" while being shot

[true lantern]

Now is second best, low points are exactly when you want to change things experimentally

[tender aurora]

either way

This change will be a forum mess for a bit
Edity edit : cat stepped on enter

[true lantern]

Too controversial

So prolly won't happen

[wispy nexus]

it really needs to.

[true lantern]

Unless Oki gets stubborn on changing it

[tender aurora]

it needs to happen to be honest

currently the squad spawns are like steroids

[wispy nexus]

?

[tender aurora]

feels good in the moment but will hurt in the long run

[true lantern]

There's so many extremes in this game

[tender aurora]

(Steroid use reduces muscle growth for the rest of your life when you aren't on them)

[wispy nexus]

the problem is it doesn't hurt the individuals, it only hurts the game, if that makes sense.

[tender aurora]

it does

[true lantern]

C4, top and bottom class speed, and squad spawns are all things that need to be changed for game health

[tender aurora]

same idea with self healing from bandages

(to clarify I mean how self healing from bandages doesn't hurt the individual but has caused people to not rev as often)

[wispy nexus]

melee weapons instead of c4( I can make a concession for the suicide variant). adding at least one variant of all armor types to every class could fix the movement a bit. I tried all normal support for a while as a joke and it actually worked pretty well.

[wispy nexus]

i've seen alot of Revives, its the after healing that doesn't happen as much

[tender aurora]

I will agree it has picked up some

but compared to launch, I still find myself going around reviving people that several others ran past

[wispy nexus]

lack of comms from alot of players nowadays definitely doesn't help.

[pearl crystal]

Not true, misconseption

[tender aurora]

interesting

[random folio]

You really shouldn't be able to place spawn beacons inside spawn protection.

[reef rock]

The thing is imo the squad spawns provide the illusion of ease

They’re convenient on their own, but tack on a whole load of idiotic shitty riders that make everything else harder and/or less convenient

So yeah, steroids

And the thing about this is to put it flatly:

Most of the community is just wrong about what is balanced or not. If reddit is any example a lot of balance grievances are just personal grievances based on your own playstyle

Re: the c4 thread and ‘c4 isn’t op! Everything else is just weak’

[echo lichen]

my god fuck the mytosing and some rat spawning in some gosh darn forest
was playing sandy and you couldn't do shit because the enemies just kept appearing out of nowhere so anytime you wanted to attack some random npc just spawned in front, to your side or behind you
10/10 sytem wouldn't touch because you're no longer frustrated to spawn on a mate
oh nvm it's fucked, it just rattles my brain how this bs hasn't been addressed, not even in some dc message let alone the devcast

[reef rock]

What is the focus of the devcast anyways

[echo lichen]

i actually forgot, they just kept talking this and that but nothing quite substantial

wait you can watch it on yt or twitch? maybe?

[reef rock]

But yeah squad spawning isn’t just like. Bad. This might potentially be one of the worst squad spawning systems out there atm

extremely easy to spawn
combat restrictions are near-nonexistent
squads are larger so even more people can spawn at once

[blissful mist]

I have multiple clips of mitosis happening in front of my very eyes

[echo lichen]

i have had cases where the first dude died but his mate still spawned on him
fricking great i flurmpin' love dying due to bs like that funk me

[echo lichen]

10/10 system
no problems here

[untold knoll]

Yes, this shit is like junk food and people are just addicted to their all you can eat buffet of shit gameplay. But all you have to do is force them into a more paced system where spawn locations have to be strategically defended and engagements can result in meaningful victories over control of the map to realise the true quality they've been missing out on.

[untold knoll]

Excellent demonstration of the clownish bullshit that system enables, from both perspectives. Undeserved kills and undeserved deaths.

[snow flume]

oh look, a UMP outgunning a fal. UMP is definitely balanced and not a single person thinks 35 IS WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH OKI

NOPE, NOT A SINGLE PERSON

like, the UMP dude spawned getting shot. A) its fucking dumb that can even happen, 2) the ump still got the kill! And the fal is already overtuned in its own right

game needs another dev and then needs to say "okay Oki, you dont get to make balancing decisions anymore. We have someone for that now"

[echo lichen]

the fal ain't overtuned, it's just perfect where it sits but the ump can go suck my vals suppressor

[snow flume]

fal has the fastest ttk, no? on top of also having the fastest runspeed

its a tad overtuned

[untold knoll]

Well, yeah, I've said this before. It's clear that Oki is a very talented game developer, but that has no bearing on his ability as a game designer and the evidence so far shows that it's questionable at best.

[snow flume]

just needs to play more like the Scar movement-wise and IMO itd be fine

[echo lichen]

it doesn't
only 1.03 at best
attachments only do 1/5 of their shown ms multi soooooo ye

[untold knoll]

You can reach 1.15 with FAL using short mag

Ahh you mean that 20% -> 1.03 in practice?

[snow flume]

yeah. frankly the dude is a superhuman when it comes to the development part of his role. but his design decisions are... "questionable" at best 7 times out of 10. he needs help, partly to relieve him of some of his absurd workload, but also partly because he just isnt capable of removing his own biases when making balance and design choices

[echo lichen]

i am very well aware
1/5 of 0.15 is 0.03
move speed multipliers on attachments only do 1/5 of what the stats may lead you to believe...

[untold knoll]

bruh moment

[echo lichen]

yes fucking sir

[snow flume]

well, fair enough. but thats still fuckin fast for a gun that otherwise compares very closesly to the Scar

[echo lichen]

but well 15 rounds for that sort of recoil really ain't good either so i'd say it's still fairly balanced
and srsly this thing really only becomes good under like 20m due to the recoil
or yk you waste a fk ton of boolet

anways "spawning" aka mytosing is funking bullshit

[snow flume]

"waste a fuck tonne of boolet" is the meta across the entire game anyway. people drop instead of retention reload by default, so a mag with 10 left is just 10 rounds wasted. the game allows you to play more resourcefully, but doesnt punish for not doing it

[snow flume]

its literally like shooting a mushroom and the mushroom explodes into 5 other mushrooms. its literally fungus

[pearl crystal]

That's because short mag is a joke, remove it, and fal is perfect

[snow flume]

val or fal. im confused

[echo lichen]

fal not val ma guy
val doesn't even have one xD

[blissful mist]

the question isn't the gun on the clip, the first one is me playing with the FAMAS
it could've been a glock or a vector or anything I still would've died because there's four of them

[snow flume]

short mag is, imo, the only way to go on the val. on the Fal, its a playstyle sort of decision

[snow flume]

oh yeah its quick mag and a joke of a long mag, not a short mag on the val

the default mag for the val is just a short mag anyway 💀

[snow flume]

nah just RPG everyone and dodge the issue outright /s

they cant shoot back if the ttk is instant

[blissful mist]

the topic of the thread is spawning mechanics ???
Not general whining about the game balance

[snow flume]

we are making light of the spawning situation as a whole, my guy

because its all a total mess

[pearl crystal]

Yeah, lol, Fal,my bad

[snow flume]

in that case; how dare you insult my short mag fal!

[pearl crystal]

I mean, how many times can you say that this clown caring is extremely irritating/unfair and breakse map flow

[pearl crystal]

It fucking broken. 1.11 movement speed on a FUCKING FAL

[snow flume]

well apparently;

[echo lichen]

it does not have 1.15 ms
only 1.03

[snow flume]

tho its still rather high for an AR, especially one that, imo, belongs in a category of its own along with Scar, G3, and Mk14

but thats neither here nor there i suppose. im getting rather tired of oki just ignoring major issue like the spawning system while adding stuff that frankly should be much lower priority (the upcoming match victory bonuses and challenges or whatever)

that stuff is all well and good... if the game wasnt such a pain in the ass to play sometimes on account of the stuff that has been an issue for a long time

[echo lichen]

this is so funking true

[pearl crystal]

Short mag goes form 1.00 to 1.03? I don't belive that

[idle night]

2nd fastest; tied with UMP and groza. scorpion is the fastest

the downsides are obvious though. 20 bullets in a mag and wacky horizontal recoil. it's a gun that takes a fair bit of finesse to use

[snow flume]

oh yeah. im always forgetting the scorp, mostly because its almost not even worth discussing in a practical application sense 💀

[idle night]

but yeah, it only goes up to 1.03 with short mag, meanwhile ump is 1.10 by default

(and with short mag you're crippling yourself by taking away a quarter of your ammo)

[snow flume]

but- but! Zoomin!

(even if its 90% placebo effect)

[echo lichen]

it does...

[snow flume]

but he dont believe it!

(im too stupid to do anything but believe anything and everything im told)

[echo lichen]

same tbh

[snow flume]

its a blissful but shelterd existence fr

[echo lichen]

only if you're not paranoid 👀

[snow flume]

true true. i stopped caring enough to be paranoid a long time ago. after witnessing enough human bullshit, you sorta get used to it all lmao

[snow flume]

its still, in actual application, 1.03

[pearl crystal]

explain

[snow flume]

the UI lies

honestly that stat UI lies quite often

if youre level 130+, test out the bolt speeds on the various sniper rifles. youll find its 100% hogwash. m200 first fast as fuck, and the MSR also fires quite fast, despite both having much lower bolt speeds than the other SRs

[pearl crystal]

it depends on much more things that rifle alone but ok

[snow flume]

no, if the stat sheet could be trusted, you would ideally be able to tell the rifles fire rate from the bolt speed listed on its stats and directly compare it between rifles. but that bolt speed does not take into account the delay between firing your shot and the game starting the animation for bolting the gun. its a long delay on the SSG69, which has a higher bolt speed than the M200 on paper, and the M200's delay is much shorter, so it fires faster despite bolting slower

but allat doesnt belong here anyway lol

[slow vault]

meanwhile if an enemy is twice that range in the first part from an ally I cant spawn on them because reasons. the range limit on squad spawns feels so ridiculously inconsistent

[random folio]

I suspect it might also have something to do with netcode, and the fact that battlebit's is awful. So the spawn state or whatever it is isn't updating when it should, or at all.

[open solar]

Squad spawning right now is like that one lone villager in age of empires who manages to escape your genocide and rebuilds his empire from nothing lol

Tbh Squads rally point system is much better. Yes I know spawn beacons exist but it's so easy to find and destroy them.

[honest rose]

Remove the ability to spawn on friendly vehicles if they're in the safe zone but away from spawn bases. They're being used as de facto team-wide spawn beacons and are horrendously broken on some maps, giving one team a huge advantage over the other.

A good example is south spawn on Tensa Town, especially 64x64

[waxen glacier]

Please no, it would make it so much harder to re-cap the gimme points.

[honest rose]

I mean, good?

Why should they be freebie points

[waxen glacier]

I play support, it takes a year for my fat butt to run from the spawn between points

It's literally faster to die and respawn somewhere else

[pearl crystal]

That's like, literally the smallest problem with the spawn system

[vital cargo]

i wouldn't mind vehicle spawning far away from bases being removed. but better rally points would have to come before they go

[true lantern]

Team wide rallypoints
Team wide large vehicle spawns (RCB, APC, Blackhawk)
Cleaner team wide objective spawning
Squad vehicle Spawning

In exchange for squad spawning

[tender aurora]

I know your pain, best suggestion is wait & spawn on a teammate

[untold knoll]

Lol tried playing after the update and I P90'd a couple of guys just as they spawned on a teammate

The guy was raging on his mic about "how does this fucking game not have spawn protection what the fuck is this shit"

Anyway, remove squad spawning bye

[reef rock]

Squad spawning inspires the funniest kinds of ingenuity, e.g. hiding in dead bodies so your entire squad can spawn

Had a game yesterday where i got a squadwipe killing a guy doing that

[wispy nexus]

Man I spray and/or nade any dead body that even looks like it cover someone, just in case.

[idle night]

i don't think squad spawning is necessarily a bad thing but it needs to be way, way more restrictive

it's not fun to have someone shit out his teammates as you're shooting him, and it's not fun to be shot at the moment you spawn

[slow vault]

even restrictive its still not great. the fact that a recon can sneak behind a point and just go afk in a bush/use a spotter drone for a while, while their whole squad floods the point repeatedly with no easy way to find the cause, is an issue

[idle night]

the radius that prevents spawning when an enemy is nearby needs to be hell of a lot larger, and preferably it should account for where enemies are aiming as well (ie, don't let me spawn if my teammate is in the crosshairs of an enemy sniper)

[idle night]

true, backcappers are way too prevalent and near impossible to curb down

[slow vault]

and thats been me at times lately, Ive been using the drone a lot for spotting so there will be times where im in a bush on a drone while also near a point, being my team's spawn beacon for free

its not something you need to try to do, its so easy to do it just happens

unrelated note - let us recons get points for reconning, my drone has won fights lemme get points for it damn it 😂

[reef rock]

Real talk: why does every mook get to laser a tank and broadcast its location for 15 seconds while recon doesn’t even get to use their drone to spot people lmfao

[slow vault]

drone can spot people, you just dont get points for it. which feels odd, since it seems like part of the class identity is pointing out threats to the squad

[reef rock]

Yeah exactly you can spot people but not ‘spot’ (the one with the points)

[slow vault]

tank spotter gets points, let drones get points to

[reef rock]

Ngl i feel like recon should get the ability to paint the minimap a bit

Like you spot an area with your drone and the area appears on the minimap for teammates

[wispy nexus]

having a marker, like on a vehicle, on a player for like 2-10 seconds would actually be really helpful in getting recon away from "sniper only" class. especially if there are spotting points. Could actually make the binos useful

[pearl crystal]

Tank spotter gets points for shares kills. Not for spotting

Same as jeep with mg driver, or heli pilot

[slow vault]

its functionally the same thing. tank spotter gets xp, because it is doing something worth granting xp

if thats worth granting xp, then drone spots should too

[pearl crystal]

You get XP for just sitting there, not for doing anything. You can AFK, in the kitchen, alt-tab and watching YT, you will still get XP when gunner kills someone

[slow vault]

Im aware. like I said, the reason they even decided for the spotter to get xp, is because the spotter's job is worth giving xp for. if it is worth giving xp for, then so is doing it on a drone

its not that hard

[tender aurora]

inconsisently

at least when I last played in a spotter seat

[wispy nexus]

as long as its an actual kill, and not an assist counts as kill. a spotter will always get gunner assist for both guns.

[honest rose]

I will point out that team-wide rally points are a cursed idea, all it takes is one person slipping by and bam, instant team-wide outflank

It will turn the already-problematic problem of ease of flanking into something so gsmebreaking and infuriating that people will just stop playing

This isn't planetside 2

[waxen glacier]

I'mma be real with you chief, It was so much easier to stop the enemy from spawning in PS2. All you had to do was track the stream of bodies back to the sundy and c4 it

In Battlebit you have to try and find one dude who could be in any building, likely with the stairs blown off

[slow vault]

didnt even need to follow the trail of bodies

PS2 spawn beacons have space lasers letting you know where they are lmao

[waxen glacier]

True

[slow vault]

another thing often overlooked when comparing the two, in PS2 capture areas are about as big as a 32x32 battlebit map, it takes a long time for one backcapping squad to cap the entire area. unless you all hit every point at the same time you have 0 hope of capping before the wave gets to you. and even if you do, the wave will be there 30 seconds later.

[waxen glacier]

I'm just referring to invisi sundies

[untold knoll]

IMO not a problem with adequate restrictions. E.g. high points price, make it like other constructions such that player needs to "build it up" before it works, longer spawn delay for non-squad members, when spotted shows up on the map like vehicles do.

[honest rose]

I am still highly doubtful

[pearl crystal]

Team wide spawns may be bad idea, who knows, there is potential for it to backfire

But PS2 like squad spawn beacons would mitingate the spawn problem and not be too "op"

Having every squad member able to set up beacons would be good idea, but they also would need to be easier to find, because right now, you can put them in really fucked up spots

[honest rose]

My preference is still on relying on squad leaders for squad spawn and beacons, I think it would change the flow of the game for the better.

[pearl crystal]

Most players don't know who is SL

And even less knows/cares to put beacons down

[honest rose]

Again, broader changes are needed

[slow vault]

Beacons being visible wouldn't help like it does in ps2, the scale is just too wildly different. What would end up happening is a beacon guess down behind them, nobody notices till there's suddenly 20 people back capping

[slow vault]

As I said, the scale is so big that one spawn beacon means nothing in the short term. In BB that could get a quarter of your team on a point before anyone can do anything

[mighty ermine]

Just make it clearer who is squad lead and we good

[wispy nexus]

who can also run when you get close

[echo lichen]

dear diary, today i killed a dude but after he died his friend plopped into existence, he died shortly after aswell...

[wispy nexus]

if team spawn areas, make em like squad's spawn points rather big, in comparison, structures. have SLs be able to mark points on the map, like HLL(SL only because fuck trying to figure out 127 peoples points at a time) with squad guys being able to mark maps for each other but SL for everyone.

[wispy nexus]

right now no mics got a generic ping, that should be expanded, map markers would also be a good tool.

[untold knoll]

Since this thread seems to have a good concentration of non-silly mechanic enjoyers, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this idea I have to make it less frustrating to defend capture points.

Give capture points a physically capturable flag to stop the stupid "prone in a bush at the very edge of the circle" tactic. Flag location is periodically updated for nearby defenders and it cannot be taken out of the circle. Attackers must hold the flag for a set duration to flip the point, amount of players no longer matters.
#1133101103450427422 message

[wispy nexus]

I think a better option would be to make the capture points for every map and location. rahter than just the same small circle, taking nothing into account.

would take more time, but I would take a map an update just to see progress on it

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[idle night]

that would not be fun for the squad leader in the slightest

playing optimally would mean not getting to play the game

[wispy nexus]

more ways to spawn, less spawning on random person(including SL)

[tender aurora]

To take some old ideas

Rally points from the SL (cooldown based, wave based respawns for squad only) , buildable rallies (team based, normal respawns) and possible SL, otherwise have a radius around those where you can squad spawn possibly

otherwise have the constructed rally be tougher than the current one

[wispy nexus]

SL gets tougher rally, you either need to blow it up or unbuild it(i.e walking up to it), everyone in squad can get 1-2(total for squad, not player) of the current rallies but spawns are limited to 2 full squad respawns.

[frosty barn]

I feel like the issue with rally beacons and stuff is often times they'll just get wiped randomly. There's 127 enemies running around, they'll find it eventually. With that many people there will also be rally beacons literally everywhere

[wispy nexus]

yeah, cooldowns would need to go way down for placing it

that is kinda what a rally is for, quick spawns for a squad, but easily destroyed when it comes down to it

its not meant to last a long time.

the cooldown is what kills it usually because people die so quickly usually in the larger modes

[tender aurora]

reason why you saw two rallies in the idea

you have one which is your squad only & only CD restricted

And the constructed one offers a more perm setup for the whole team

[frosty barn]

CD?

[wispy nexus]

cooldown

[tender aurora]

cooldown

[frosty barn]

Thxx

[wispy nexus]

I'm kinda just stealing from HLL here

Garrison v Rally

big spawner vs small one

[frosty barn]

Might work, I have no experience with hll, so I wouldn't know if it'd fit.

[wispy nexus]

Big one is alot tougher and needs to be exploded or unbuilt by hand(or nuked by aircraft but whatever), rally is smaller, easily placed, has a 60 second cooldown, but can be destroyed by hunting enemies far easier

also not restricted by points for a rally, but needs supplies for a garrison(points)

unrestriced spawns might not be the best idea for this game

[tender aurora]

about the same idea as squad's respawn mechanics

[wispy nexus]

but having what we have now be as a expendable spawner instead of a crappy 2nd way to spawn, and a much harder to destroy spawner to be a squad main way to spawn might work really well

[frosty barn]

Idea

Squad points drain when you spawn on squad mates?

Probably a bad idea, but I mean it might give more purpose to them currently

[wispy nexus]

well they are trying to implement more stuff for SL to do with em

and to be honest, on official servers, most squads aren't gonna even earn that much the entire game

[tender aurora]

Cue support mains now being unable to build for various squads

[wispy nexus]

yep. please support don't need more nerfs

[tender aurora]

could take a idea from war haven

every so often you get tokens you use to spawn on squad mates

when tokens are used up you need to spawn at a different spawn type

[jade steppe]

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[frosty barn]

Yee

Dumb idea part 2

Spawning on your squad members takes away 3 tickets. Spawning on your sl takes 1.

Or, maybe spawning on your sl is slightly faster

[tender aurora]

people already don't care about ticket loss

[untold knoll]

There's not a single person in this game that cares about tickets
All that is going to do is make matches end sooner

[jade steppe]

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[untold knoll]

With that system I would actively respawn on squad members just to burn tickets faster whenever I got a map or mode I dont like

[frosty barn]

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[untold knoll]

Before I go to sleep, just a reminder that we must

🗣️📢REMOVE SQUAD SPAWNING

[vital cargo]

you don't have to agree with everything in this image

i just wanted to put my ideas in an easily digestible format to start some hopefully productive conversations

also there's a P on the flag because i had the random idea what if they displayed what squad they're for

so in this case it's P for Papa

flags have to be tall, at least 0.75x as tall as a player, because then you can't just hide prone on the floor and act as a squad spawn beacon

[slow vault]

seeing what was just posted in #dev-wip , what are the odds squad spawn detection is also super inconsistent with its range because of batching?

[untold knoll]

Just thinking about how much more epic fights over places like B building in River would be if squad spawning was removed and you had to hold out to the last man.
(due to proximity to the capture point rallies wouldn't work inside either - it would be a proper siege where revives and resupplies truly matter)

[frosty barn]

Sounds overly complicated

[true lantern]

Remove Squad Spawn
Spawn Beacon placed anywhere
Squad Beacon placed by anyone (Limit 1 per person)
Transport Chopper universal constant team spawn
APC universal constant team spawn

👍

basically anything you can spawn on should be very fuckin loud and obvious

if you want to get real ccrazy, ability to spawn on flags you own, or spawn beacon becomes team wide (one per squad still)

Or larger squads

both do something similar

[frosty barn]

My only issue with spawn beacons and such that are freely placeable is that there may be issues (especially on smaller maps) of them being fucking everywhere

I wanna revisit an idea

how about you can't spawn on a currently contested objective?

as in like, on your squad members inside a currently contested objective

this goes for defenders and attackers

[wispy nexus]

yeah, no one being able to do so would even the playing field so much

I still think a main spawn beacon(placed by SL) and a rally point(temporary/expendable spawn points) that could be placed by anyone would still be nice. Would need to figure out cooldowns and stuff.

[frosty barn]

It just seems really weird to understand, and I think it would slow down the game in annoying ways. For milsim it'd fit though for sure.

[wispy nexus]

milsim likely wouldn't have spawners though

how would it be weird though?

[frosty barn]

Like, it would need a little tutorial in the tutorial for sure. Then it miiight be fine. I've played with peeps that have like 20+ hours that don't know you can build things

[wispy nexus]

sl would get a tougher spawner, but it operates the same. the expendable one would be the current rally point, maybe have it have limited spawns(maybe one full squad). but otherwise its the exact same

[frosty barn]

So I feel like everyone would just start bitching like "OMG I CAN'T SPAWN ANYWHERE, my teammates are so dumb and never put down spawners"

[wispy nexus]

yeah, the not putting the tutorial first thing is more on the players.

then again, the shooting range isn't exactly advertised as the tutorial

[wispy nexus]

well thats the thing about the temp one, anyone can place it

that means they can place it themselves if they actually think its a problem

we also can't make decisions based on people who refuse to work with the team/never bother to try and figure things out themselves.

[wispy nexus]

they kinda already do that. making rallies squad wide instead of SL only, especially with SL usually being random when not in a party, but still have a slightly upgraded spawner for the SL who knows what he's doing would be a nice bonus.

[true lantern]

Them being everywhere would be a good thing. They're loud, they draw enemies to them.

[wispy nexus]

I will always take beacons being everywhere but noticeable, than a quiet, camouflaged dude in a bush spawning out 7 other dudes over and over.

[true lantern]

^

And an unmoving one at that

[wispy nexus]

yep. and even if they are going to be found, they can just run, a beacon, no matter how annoying, cannot do so

[frosty barn]

eh idk

[wispy nexus]

having a message to tell you when a beacon can be placed would fix that I think. hell have it appear a a tip like other games do, so that people can figure out they can do that.

[tender aurora]

(walks slightly outside the zone)

[wispy nexus]

zones are kinda small for that, yeah

[tender aurora]

I have said prior to make the zones a two parter

the main part operates pretty much as one would expect

stand in it, capture the area

you get xp for killing in it and/or killing those in it (So either way pretty much)

the second zone acts more as a alarm bell & a defensive area

So expands a good deal past the capture zone

[wispy nexus]

so basically the cap zone and the vehicle spawn zone as is

[tender aurora]

and still allows the objective xp boosts

[frosty barn]

That's the idea actually yea

If everyone leaves the zone, suddenly the team left can be spawned on

And it'll start getting capped

Forces you to abandon contesting it for a moment

Honestly it'd give a more interesting dynamic to capping points imo. Make them more interesting when you're a solo player preventing a cap or trying to cap

The zones could be made larger again this way too in some modes

[blissful mist]

another clip of the weaknesses of the current system

[idle night]

ive got another goofy silly example as well

[echo lichen]

just mytosing on the ground like the fungi and bacteria in the forgotten lunch box

[frosty barn]

You know

I said the other day I never had someone spawn on top of someone else while I was fighting them

I did have that happen here today. Saw someone, was getting ready to fight them by bandaging real fast. BOOM clown car of people spawn and eat my bullets with spawn immunity 😔

I would say a suppression system could also help fix this stuff (if it doesn't already exist)

like bullets wizzing by, or if you've been spotted recently (red spot) you can't be spawned on for like 5-10 seconds

[wispy nexus]

why the fuck does spawning on a squad mate have immunity anyway. I can see it for bases and points(especially since they idiotically have only 1 spawn point each), rally's too since people like camping them, but your squadmates?

[jade steppe]

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[echo lichen]

it doesn't

[snow flume]

it does

but it requires something like 20 or 30 seconds of continuous fire to activate 💀

[echo lichen]

it's just a vingette effect 💀

[snow flume]

still exists. technically. but yes, it 100% needs to have an actual effect, lest support be permanently relegated into being nothing more than a gimmick

[frosty barn]

It'd actually be really amazing if suppression caused you not to be able to have people spawn on you

That would give support a reason to spam fire

[unique bridge]

teammates spawning on you while shooting and blocking your LOS is driving me nuts

[echo lichen]

the entire spawn system is fricked

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[frosty barn]

Truly if no one can spawn the spawning system is perfect

This is the time to play the game, at its most hardcore

What does it feel like when you can't just spawn everywhere in one second? The game's a horror game now

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[frosty barn]

finally, everyone who suggested squad spawning be adjusted got what they wanted 😇

[tender aurora]

should I even ask? (Haven't played new update yet)

[frosty barn]

They fixed it no worries

[tender aurora]

k

[wispy token]

please shrink the "unbuildable" zones to at least not include the roofs of buildings....makes some points completely impossible to defend. especially once the buildings are destroyed it's so hard to not be able to build anything on the entire point.

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

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[wispy token]

yep. building is something i utilize a lot and it's really been getting me killed a ton recently. sometimes im not anywhere near a spawn and it's still a dead zone. was up 2-3 flights of stairs and on a roof a few days ago. still a no build zone.

[random folio]

I'd prefer it be removed entirely.

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[random folio]

Especially if there's a building with stairs that inevitably gets c4'd, there's no way up if you don't have a grappling hook.

[untold knoll]

Stairs getting completely obliterated by C4 is such bullcrap on its own

IMO they should get partially destroyed, always leaving behind a couple small edges you can still platform off of

[small dew]

i would suggest a Disable squad spawns toggle, nothing is more infuriating than your teammates Mitosis-ing out of you in your line of fire, i cant think of a fix for braindead teammates that just sit infront of you except for hardcore mode, lemme dome them out of my way

[honest rose]

Oki has already said he'll never do this

[untold knoll]

Just like he said bandages would never heal?

(either way - the right move is removing squad spawning altogether)

[honest rose]

Yea

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

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[frosty barn]

I don't think squad spawning would feel as annoying for some people if people could be found easier too

[untold knoll]

Man the average headless chicken takes the humvee and drives it straight into a ditch 5m from the safe zone

[frosty barn]

So recon should definitely get some extra tools for scouting (flir cam on drones)

Suppression NEEDS to be in the game as a mechanic that stops squad spawns

I think with these two things it'll make squad spawning way less annoying for the people that find it annoying

[untold knoll]

Just jump into spectator mode

[frosty barn]

Tactical ghosting

Obviously let recon separate their spirit from their body to ghost people

It's October, it fits

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[idle night]

yeah, the people who steal said vehicles are the actual headless chickens

sometimes i have to fucking reinforce the vehicles with dozens of sandbags to make them idiotproof

[jade steppe]

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[echo lichen]

team wide spawn beacon moment on district e objective

[untold knoll]

Nah they crash them just outside

[tender aurora]

with only himself

[reef rock]

the worst part is that there's just like. no way to stop them

people mentioned introducing an ignition and giving the key to only the person that picked it up and i'm for that

[untold knoll]

Wouldnt prevent someone from entering tho?

[reef rock]

well that too tbh

especially everyone who just jumps into a humvee specifically to get the turret

[untold knoll]

Only when you turn off the engine I guess

[wispy nexus]

make the unarmored humvees able to deploy and just sit there unable to move or something. that might actually be easier than checking for keys.

[untold knoll]

Letting you shoot their tires off would make them unironically more useful lol

[pearl crystal]

Maybe not humvees, but Sunderer like vehicle would be welcomed

[untold knoll]

Soooo not about spawning itself, but dying is a closely related topic. What do y'all think if instead of just lying there dying, your character could slowly crawl while the timer counts down? I think this would make revives more likely by letting them get closer to their allies when they die in a bad position, and it would also reduce the frustration of random OHK stuff. Like, blased by an rpg on top of a building would let you slide down to nearby friendlies so they can pick you up.

[wispy nexus]

gears of war style downed crawl?

[snow flume]

not sure thatd have any place. besides, being able to drag downed ragdoll bodies is funny as fuck

dont take that from us

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[frosty barn]

how about a flop

let us flop around a little

[untold knoll]

Oh no way I would ever. Actually right now people most often do this for the memes or by accident, but if people could crawl away towards their friendlies, pulling them back would actually be encouraged. So you'll see even more screaming ragdolls being dragged around. :D

[untold knoll]

Nah they keep their invuln, and they'd have to move slow so like half of regular prone speed or less. Not meant to let you crawl all the way to the next base but just get like a corner of your body behind cover so friendlies can pull you in.

[untold knoll]

Just another beautiful session spent watching the team get murdered by rats right outside the base 😌 👌

[wispy nexus]

I love having a squad just chill by our spawn and there be fuck all we can do about it unless they are stupid and all rush us.

[snow flume]

it really cannot be overstated how much the spawning mechanics kill any sort of desire to play the game for long periods of time for so many players. theres zero actual gratification for doing anything to help the team, as the spawning mechanics (and the mega-quick revives for medics to an extend, but thats a different conversation) just totally nullify any reason to play smart. just play dumb and get kills, and thats gets boring quick

[untold knoll]

Or play smart and just spend half the game clearing out trees and demolishing buildings because clear sightlines are the only way you can ever clean up a rat infestation

[wispy nexus]

give us more spawners, make them noticeable but expendable, remove squad spawn please

[snow flume]

sure, you can, but thats hardly a rewarding playstyle, both for fun and for actual XP rewards

(not to mention that removing 90% of a maps decor being the only sure-fire way of countering that shite is proof enough that the spawn system needs major work, and its current state is entirely unacceptable in the long-term)

[pearl crystal]

I love being spawn locked by a 4 guys that doesn't loose anything by doing that. It's basically win wim for them, to camp enemy spawn and deny any vehicles trying to get to the fight.
Peak game designg here fr

Incentivising spawn camping and rat behaviour

[untold knoll]

I think the real problem is that enemies don't come from the rally point most of the time. If squad spawning was removed, you would immediately start noticing how enemies consistently appear from one direction and this would point you in the right direction rather easily. So instead of using it as a fallback for when their in-base rats get cleared out, they would organically be forced to choose between putting it close to the point or having to walk a lot more if they go down.

[pearl crystal]

Most of the problems boils down to putting too many players on not big enough maps

X gadgets is too op, because 127 guys runs it.
Spawning is bad because 127 guys is a lot

This will be hard to fix tbh

[untold knoll]

Every single one of your criticisms apply to players spawning on other players. Except for the fact they take less bullets to kill, but on the other hand they don't make noise and can shoot you back.

Furthermore, if rallies became the sole form of spawning out of bases, teams as a whole would begin to prioritize this task. Very few people bother doing that currently because as I mentioned, rallies are only ever relevant once you have killed every enemy in the area. Games are already full with Recons skirting the edges of the map, so this would almost certainly be a task they would naturally feel inclined to engage in.

it becomes easier to obfuscate the real position of the rally point by first running a bit sideways and then to the objective
How do you define "easier"? I am inclined to say that with any reasonable definition, your statement can be proven to be mathematically wrong:

• Define degree of obfuscation to be the angle difference between the direction the rally point is and the direction the person comes from.
• Maximum obfuscation would be achieved by coming into the capture area directly from the opposite side your rally is located at.
• The further away from the capture point you place a rally, the bigger the radius of the circle within which your rally may be located.
• The larger the radius, the longer the arc length one must travel to achieve the same difference in angle i.e. obfuscation.
• Therefore, distance one must travel in order to achieve a given degree of obfuscation always increases with distance and moving "a bit sideways" achieves proportionally less obfuscation the farther out the rally point is.

[frosty barn]

Just go get a different obj. It works lol

Idk wtf calculus we're trying to do here, so i'ma dip

[waxen glacier]

I just want Oki to take lessons from Planetside 2

As far as I know they did the best with the whole massive fps battles thing

Except shotguns, which they butchered multiple times

[untold knoll]

They also fucked up by making capture points be this tiny room where 50 people would be packed together just holding LMB at the doorways between moments of clicking the revive prompt

The larger areas in BBR mean that the battle can spread out a bit more. But yes, otherwise there's quite a few things worth directly lifting from.

(like letting anyone, not just squad lead, set down a rally point)

[untold knoll]

• A: More far far, better hide hide
• B: Yes, but more far far more walk walk
• A: But far far make little walk walk big hide hide!
• B: No, more far far only big hide hide if big walk walk

[waxen glacier]

What are you, a skaven?

[untold knoll]

Uni lecturer, spanning levels of explanatory complexity is part of the job 😄

[waxen glacier]

You know what, fair enough

Though I think I can also stand by my previous statement

[frosty barn]

Sorry buddy, it's not in a picture

I can't read smart

[pearl crystal]

I was thinking the same. He snorted too much warpstone and it shows

[snow flume]

gonna be honest, if any of my Uni profs had ever started a class with something like that, id marching straight to the deans office lol

"uh, i think my professor is having a stroke. or you hired a moron"

[untold knoll]

That'd be fun. I'm just speaking to silent Zoom squares for the most part. On the other hand, less questions, more time for videogames. And research. Obviously.

[snow flume]

haha true. my time at uni predated covid, so that whole "zoom class" thing is quite bizarre to me

[untold knoll]

one could just travel a bit closer to the objective and then start to obfuscate the rally's location
Indeed, but this means that going farther away never makes things easier, at best it's equal to having been closer. ;) And also consider that the total travelled distance is still long and this means more opportunities for being spotted.

I see your point about this being an annoying dynamic currently, but I would wager that if both teams had to rely on rally points, then this fight across "no man's land" would organically become a part of the struggle for pushing closer into the enemy's capture point. I do think that some other adjustments like making capture points not instantly disabling spawning the instant an enemy steps into them and giving people the ability to build cover without relying on squad points would improve the way these fights play out.

[true lantern]

I mean that second part sounds like an upside to me

Frontlines that shift to non objective sections of the map?

Sounds fun as hell

That would be a new and actually dynamic style of llay

[untold knoll]

No individual player does the silent spawn beacon thing all the time, but for instance I will take cover in a hidden place to heal up, reload, combine mags, etc. and watch my squad's status, letting them spawn in if they need to. Then we go fight, get messed up a bit and pull back again, rinse and repeat.

[untold knoll]

And yes, the reason I believe this would be an interesting thing is precisely because I have already experienced it when playing Planetside 2. Controlling the area around the objective was as important as the objective itself and I personally found it more enjoyable than just chasing people around the same tiny capture point area.

Ah, one more thing. Consider that most squads WILL be randos, and despite your best intentions, you won't be able to prevent having that one guy who just makes a beeline for the enemy base or starts shooting right next to their beacon. So I feel relatively confident that most of the time they might not be as hard to find as they are now, where they are only used by people who are somewhat above the average player in terms of tactics.

[untold knoll]

Aaand because I can never pass up a good opportunity to share some Planetside 2 gameplay. Here's an example of what I'm talking about: a sustained firefight where one team progressively pushes the enemy back by destroying their forward spawns. This is significantly less gun and run, and it has to be, because when you die you need to walk back from your spawn, you can't just bypass the enemy's defenses by having an entire squad teleport on top of a guy hiding behind a rock at the next base over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYglzR7_2_w

[jade steppe]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[untold knoll]

Gonna be fun getting screamed at by the entire lobby because you're not going to the exact spot they want to be spawning at

[pure canyon]

They should really just make transport vehicles spawn points for players and also find a way to get Rally Points to actually be placed by squad leads. I'm not opposed to just removing the squad spawning stuff entirely since it will never be good or be fun for people (spawning in and instantly dying isn't fun, killing someone only for mitosis to happen isn't fun, the changes to spawning quite literally just made worse issues).

BTR/LAV should let anyone spawn in them, the systems already exist to not make them OP and annoying anyway (deploy time in vehicles being long, long respawn time for said vehicles, slow turn time, no other functional seats for callouts). Unarmored jeeps would still be squad only and would benefit the most from this since I rarely see anyone use them and would be perfect for both sides:

1. Players have to spawn in the jeep and then get out not knowing where the enemy is.
2. Players have a long deploy time for the jeep so attackers don't get spammed with respawns trying to take it out.
3. A well placed shot can instantly kill the jeep.
4. The jeep has a smaller capacity so even if a bunch of players attempt to spawn on it they have to wait for a slot to empty.
5. The jeep has no mounted weapons to defend itself with.
6. Players can't deploy into a jeep if an enemy is nearby.

This would allow attackers breathing room to destroy the vehicle, and people who don't want to walk all the way from spawn have a consistent choice of where to spawn without the current frustrations.

The only issue I see with this is Oki finding a way to "identify" that a jeep has been claimed by a squad even if nobody is currently inside of it.

[wispy nexus]

a simple squad lock on the driver seat would work fine, but the vehicle work for the team(HLL Half track style)

[pure canyon]

It just shouldn't be an automatic lock if that's the case, should be a button to lock the driver seat to the squad.

[teal lintel]

PLEASE, swap time delay between vehicles and teammates. So if you span on ally tank you should spawn immediate, instead if you want to spawn on the person you have to hold key for few seconds. No delay spawn - main base, team points, ally vehicles.
Also need lock feature that forces teammates to spawn near vehicle instead of inside, also forbid to enter to locked vehicle from outside. To enemy it should be unlock feature requires hold key for few seconds to unlock (if vehicle was leaved and then locked from outside). Ally members is unable to unlock vehicle while you inside.
Use case - you took the jeep, you get on the hill, stay there, take minigunner position, and the mates, that spawn on driver seat just start driving.

[hollow stag]

Territory Control in Squad is pretty much this.

Each team has 1 anchor point, lose that and you’re unable to capture any hexes (territories) until you recap your anchor. To capture enemy points you need a player advance in the hex and the hex needs to be able to connect back to your anchor (can’t be cutoff). If your hex is cutoff, your team will still control it, but you’re not able to capture any hexes from it.

And Squad does tickets exactly like your idea.

Some people didn’t like this style of gameplay because it was very hard to comeback from behind since there was no way to gain tickets.

In other squad game modes you gain some tickets and enemies lose tickets when you cap an objective.

[tender aurora]

if I recall the gain loss was like 1:2 ratio(could be easily wrong/it be changed/etc)

[teal lintel]

Finally, I understood what’s wrong with respawns and why it’s more interesting to play in Battlefield, although you can’t spawn on your allies everywhere.

1. The idea is that when fallen soldiers return to the battlefield from a previous point, then the rear of the squad is almost always protected, because there are regularly someone moving there from among their own. When everyone appears on your allies, enemies are constantly around you and you don’t know it until you die a dozen times, because running from the base can be really long, and there are few points on some maps and they are located in the form of a triangle, and all of them are right now the enemy attacks.

2. Respawning on an ally now works with errors. One time the player cannot appear on an ally who is not in danger, another time you appear on someone who is being machine-gunned or will do so in a split second. What is clearly missing here is some kind of “is in the line of sight of any of the opponents” check to allow respawning.

3. The control point built by the commander should be removed and made a “trap”, just like mines. So that it can be replenished as ammunition, left standing until destroyed, or picked up if it is no longer needed. I don’t think that this should be done by the head of the detachment, otherwise it will not be used much. I think the squad leader himself should be such a point, but you can only appear on him when he is not in someone’s field of vision, and when he appears on other players the opportunity to remove it. Such a device would be valuable enough to dispense with, for example, an RPG, a ballistic shield, or the installation of mines. After the death of the one who placed it, I think it should disappear; whether to make such a point as in Battlefield for a sniper is an open question, but this forced the snipers to move to the enemy’s rear, and not sit at their base and look out for enemies, and yes, this gave him then the opportunity will appear again once again at the set point, even having died before that. It was a cool concept!

4. Due to the fact that we have squads of 8 people, they are more tenacious, and stopping a squad that continuously appears on its allies is a matter of gameplay, when just one player who finds himself in the rear carries an entire brigade there, it seems to me It shouldn't be this way.

5. Change the respawn delay between a vehicle and an ally. In order to appear on an ally you need to hold the spacebar for a second, but in a vehicle or on a point it should be instantaneous. The exception is Deathmatch.

6. I would really like to see respawn in groups. That is, instead of a personal delay counter, there is a common squad counter, I think this will greatly improve teamwork when you appear several at once in one place. That is, you can only appear all together, if you are not doing it on an ally. Vehicle, captured point or base - at any time.

7. In some game modes, the attacked point is not allowed to respawn. This is not entirely true. A point that has become neutral blocks respawn while it is “yours” but in an attack - you can still use it, but respawn must occur outside the zone where the capture takes place and just at a distance of its radius from the center in a random place. When there are few points and the enemy is now trying to take them all, respawn is only available at the main base, which apparently became the reason for respawn on allies, which only works well in Deathmatch.

8. Vehicle respawn should be improved to support closing the vehicle. Being a closed car allows you to respawn only from outside the car, to avoid a situation where you are behind a machine gun and parked the car in a safe place, but your ally, appearing in it, immediately starts moving and buries both of you

[frosty barn]

I agree with some of the ideas

[hollow stag]

#2 we have an los system for the in combat mechanic like you're suggesting. But before apperantly oki recieved complains that it worked to well and that it was difficult to spawn, so he tweaked values. But I agree, it is terrible that you can spawn on someone that is practically already dead. Happens a lot to me where I've nearly killed someone and people start flooding out of their body in our gunfight.

I agree with #4, but I don't know an answer for this besides removing player spawns entirely.
#5 I agree, vehicles points and rallies should be instant. If anything spawning on a player should take more time than the other spawns because it is more convenient to spawn on player since they'll probably be close to the combat.

[wispy nexus]

Why can't #2 be based on being shot and or shooting?

#4 squad spawning honestly wouldn't be a bad thing to remove in modes with vehicles. make the rally a bit easier to get with a smaller cooldown in return

rally should be kept from the Recon class, we already learned this lesson

[dusk tulip]

Should I be seeing glint through several layers of solid grass or trees sprites? This makes it so easy to countersnipe without line-of-sight using a glintless 4x and a rangefinder. Feels unintentional.

[hollow stag]

Devs are definitely aware. They talked about it ages ago, and I’m pretty sure they explained it would very tasking to fix.

[snow flume]

so that wasnt just hogwash rumour-mill stuff about glint being a difficult fix, eh? thats unfortunate. the sniping itself feels really good, so its a shame is so marred by the glint

[hollow stag]

I wanna say they’d have to redo how soft cover (leaves, bushes) works in the game

But I don’t know

[snow flume]

probably. but i dont think its limited to soft cover. youll occasionally but reliably see glint through solid objects (rocks, for example) and sometimes even terrain whenever someone gets revived after being killed during scope ADS, the glint will spark up very briefly the moment they are revived. its very odd

[dusk tulip]

Yeah I did some googling and seems like it's been a problem for a while. Whatever, I'll just go glintless and counter em. Hit a 1100m shot with an acog on the m200 today lol

[idle night]

yeah, long scopes are bait

[median flare]

having effectively 0 punishment on giving up really destroys this game’s balance ngl

[waxen glacier]

Yeah, spawning is still mega scuffed

What Oki did this last patch seems like a bandaid fix

[hidden fiber]

Is it just me or is spawning somehow worse this patch? I've never died to nades immediately off spawn, teammates currently being shot at, an army around the corner off spawn that seems closer than 6 meters, and multiple enimes currently staring at my teammates so much now

[untold knoll]

Agreed. Somehow the new restriction just makes it so it's harder to find teammates to spawn on, but when I do, then they're almost always in the middle of getting killed.

[honest rose]

Like Oki has said before, I think people are just getting better at the game and it's catching others out

[untold knoll]

Or the people who can't/don't want to "get better" are just dropping out. The lack of any meaningful teamwork mechanics that would give players without top tier FPS skills a role where they can still feel useful is a problem.

[dusk tulip]

imo if one of your squad is killed nearby you should not be able to spawn near them again for a lot longer. wiping groups is insanely difficult when they keep respawning on eachother while being shot at

lately it's just been whackamole. I had an enemy hiding in cornfields right on a point just spewing out teammates

[tender aurora]

it has been wack a mole for a while in some ways lol

[untold knoll]

I mean the map designer presumably knows how the game mechanics work and put those cornfields there for a reason

They just seem to love letting people be annoying little fucks

See tunnels under Waki or Salhan A points for another example

Or the way you can set up the perfect spawncamp against Salhan US side

[echo lichen]

you can spawncamp the shit out of both sides on salhan... on both lanes

[untold knoll]

North has it easier because you have relatively wide exits

South has this stupid tunnel system with the safe zone ending just before the tunnel exits so enemies can set up a fort and chuck nades downhill

[echo lichen]

not even, there are so many buildings and a huge open area you have to get through

[dusk tulip]

Designing a map knowing and encouraging players to act as live spawn points is wild.

[wispy nexus]

it was likely meant for spawn beacons

[limpid pike]

Please spawn enemies behind players, especially when lying down.
I'd rather have allies spawn on the other side of walls etc, rather than in my f**king sights when I'm ADSing ...

[jolly flame]

Could block spawning on ADS. Both helps to cut down on camping in a corner desperately hoping for that one last squad respawn when really they've been overrun, and stops spawns into your ADS view.

[heavy grove]

Gonna add a +1 there, I'm f*ckin done to have allies's ass direcly into my mouth when I'm ADSing it's 1 one the trashest mechanics in the game and been there for a while. It needs to get fixed ASAP.

[wispy nexus]

thats normally fixed by friendly collision

[obsidian bay]

I hope that this is the right place to suggest this feedback

I love that I can spawn to my squadmates and my squadmates can spawn to me, that's an amazing feature, but as a recon player when I'm in a good position and going around finding great angles, I find my own team blocking my view. I think this is a major oversight.

Could players not turn translucent when near us so as to not block our shots and view? I've died alot of times because of player blocking and I'm unable to see the other sniper I was aiming at or the rifleman less than 100 meters in front of me because my squadmate just blocked my view. I think it is not ideal that these deaths happen when they're through no fault of my own nor my squadmates

[sly cypress]

Please make it so if you are camping in your spawn point that you cannot shoot. Too many spawn campers that never level and are untouchable. Especially when it comes to tanks.

[placid wigeon]

There's an issue with squad spawning when your squad are close together and some are in combat. It's very difficult to select which squad member to spawn on in such situations as the markers are all so close together. IMO the game should default to a squad member that is not in combat.

[torn cliff]

players spawning right infront of you while you are shooting is really annoying can we have them spawn behind us?

[placid wigeon]

And also no face the same way as us, so that if their first instinct is to run forwards they don't run straight into our lines of sight

[buoyant harness]

There needs to be a way to manually mark yourself as "busy" when stuck in a compromising situation and prevent allies from spawning on you temporarily. Say you're playing sneaky and are surrounded by enemies but they don't know you're right next to them. With enough time you figure you can pick each of them off one-by-one and get off scot free.

That is until... HE appears.

HE is the guy with comms off, music blazing, 0-12 support player. He spawns on you, ignores your pleads to play quiet and sees a helicopter above him and starts shooting at it even though he can't aim. All the enemies now know where you are and immediately gun you and HIM down.

You know that was basically griefing but explaining it to HIM won't do any good. After all he just wants to vibe at your expense. You're just a walking spawn point for his enjoyment. That 1% chance of an epic play you meticulously arranged? All gone. Reporting? Lmfao like that will ever undo what he did, and if it isn't HIM it'll be another person.

So the only way to stop HIM is to add the ability to stop people from spawning on you temporarily. Thx.

[wispy nexus]

...make squad and lock?

[buoyant harness]

You should be able to play with randoms and temporarily stop squadmates from spawning on you. Making your own squad to play solo is overkill.

[wispy nexus]

and how would that work any different than leaving squad then joining another?

you know that if this is added its never coming off.

meaning it might as well just have them make their own squad and get the same effect

[buoyant harness]

Because you can't rejoin the same squad if you leave while you're alive. Have you ever actually tried to do the advice you're giving me?

and the squad you were in could potentially fill up.

[wispy nexus]

alright, and how many times would that matter?

people leave squads and join others for fast travel

there's going to be a spot open

and if the guys actually a problem

why would you want to stay in that squad anyway?

now before we get into it. I am going to say I would love something like this. but how would we make it work without alot of players just leaving it on and screwing a squad out of spawn points?

[buoyant harness]

1. "alright, and how many times would that matter?"
   If you dedicate to a sneaky playstyle, a lot. Like actually go try it for a few matches with randoms and you'll get what I mean. These plays can easily win you a point and potentially lead you to winning the match.

2. "people leave squads and join others for fast travel there's going to be a spot open"
   The squad you're currently in might have a really good rally point or setup. It's just one person that's souring all the other good players and I don't think that's fair. This is basically an irrelevant argument to me.

3. "if the guys actually a problem why would you want to stay in that squad anyway?"
   These opportunities are hard to come by per game. At worst you might get like one golden opportunity, if the guy fucks it up then it doesn't matter that squad you run off to. It's over. That's why there needs to be a proactive solution instead of these reactive suggestions you're making.

4. "but how would we make it work without alot of players just leaving it on and screwing a squad out of spawn points?"
   Like I said, temporary. Make it have a cooldown. However long you mark yourself as "busy" is the amount of time you can't turn it back on again after you're done or something like that as a default. Ideally though, if the squad lead allows his squad to mark themselves as busy infinitely then that should be allowed.

[wispy nexus]

1. So not often even while that.
2. Irrelevant argument? If a guys a problem, he’s a problem. If you don’t want to deal with him, leave.
   3.so it’s not often, and is easily fixed by being in your own squad.
3. Ok so then people wouldn’t turn it off. Or just turn it on whenever possible by changing the keybind to something they press often.

[buoyant harness]

Just because something doesn't happen often doesn't mean its not an issue. I already told you why the just leave excuse doesn't work; if it's not him it'll be someone else. There's no proactive way to prevent this situation.

"Ok so then people wouldn’t turn it off. Or just turn it on whenever possible by changing the keybind to something they press often." You didn't read anything I wrote on that did you

[wispy nexus]

no matter how temporary, unless its a set timer, it will be used as often as possible.

and if its a set timer, how long?

15 seconds? 30? 60?

[bitter solar]

Feels like I'm getting spawn killed more than ever now, lol
Mostly because my squad member is suddenly in the heat of the battle
Also one thing that annoys me the most is the inconsistency of spawns. I can appear near my squad but I can also appear in the middle of nowhere, which results in getting to the action and sometimes getting killed by a rat that just sits somewhere in the bushes/buildings.
Maybe this inconsistency of dpawns has some logic behind it, dunno.

[buoyant harness]

#dev-wip message Thank the lords. It's kind of what I wanted nice stuff.

[tender aurora]

Hmm, I feel that is more likely another class to be blunt lol

[languid atlas]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1187880819247816854

i think that spawning on solo players should be limited, this would ecourage people to revive teammates, stay together more and not giving up so quickly as you would need minimum of 2 people to be spawnable

on the top, I would also suggest that ammo shouldn't be refilled when spawning on teammates, this would make support class more usefull

[desert raft]

maybe there should be a 5 second spawning cooldown added to a player that has been spawned on and to players that have spawned in so quickly spawning is harder to do from players and would encourage reviving more and spawn beacons would see more use

and having multiple players together would mean more players could spawn in quicker so staying together as a squad would be more encouraged

[echo lichen]

needs to be so much harder to spawn on your squad
i bet half the game flow complaints lie within this fkd up spawn system

[languid atlas]

ye

oki was trying to fix it but actually not much changed - the goal was to “limit the chaos and make kills matter”

[languid atlas]

the best i can think of was to do this

it would mitigate these two issues i think by a lot

idk why oki didn’t wanted to try it out before

[true lantern]

Simple

Oki doesn't like running sim

[echo lichen]

squad's less of a walking sim 💀

[pearl crystal]

depends

If your Sl is inteligent enough to use transports, then yes

Mostly you are running

[tender aurora]

when I played years back it was a question of

1. does the SL use rally points
2. does the SLs make any decent spawn points
3. Transport use?

[weary loom]

2 suggestions/requests regarding the spawn system in the game: 1) please set the spawn orientation at start of new game or for directional objective game modes (rush, invasion) so that you are FACING the direction of the objectives, i.e. generally where you want to start moving. 2) idk the right solution to this, but please think about some tweaks to positioning when spawning on squad mates, i.e. don't let them spawn in/on/in front of you, maybe the system can have a preference of behind or to the side or something, depending on space. since you can spawn on squad mates that are potentially in combat or on the edge of combat, it's incredibly annoying to have a player spawn on you (maybe they're not paying attention) and block your vision. i hope that makes sense

[wispy nexus]

usually thats because a squad spawning system has friendly collision, so they pop up behind you

[languid atlas]

i just repeat myself for devs

[swift oar]

Please make it so that when a squadmate spawns on you they don't spawn inside you and block your vision. Being in ADS and having someone spawn on you is like getting flashbanged

[wispy nexus]

yeah, this happens without friendly collision

its why most ofther games with squad spawns put you right behind the player in front of you, your model spawns inside the other player and gets pushed out to behind.

[pearl crystal]

I love when 6 guys materializes out of no where, just to seal club me with c4. No heli drop, no quad or jeep in sight, just 'clown car' on some random ass

[languid atlas]

that's why I suggested disabling spawning on solo players

[pearl crystal]

Can you link it?

[languid atlas]

a little above in this topic

[languid atlas]

#1138744599905579058 message

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1187880819247816854

[honest rose]

Spawn only on Team Leaders, Team Leaders can spawn on anyone

I did make a very detailed post a while back around a mechanism that worked like this

Basically the Squad Leader and Spawn Beacon act as beacons, and you can spawn on them or squad-mates close enough (whilst still respecting the current limitation of players in combat and close enemies)

encourages squad play, encourages spawn beacon use, inhibits the current problem of 1 person becoming 5 and playing whack-a-mole with people respawning off a lone survivor.

[ocean swift]

i feel like all that happens is that you end up walking from spawn every time you die

people are really bad at this game, spawn beacons get placed and destroyed within a minute or less. imagine trying to rely on spawning on a total random. all that does is push "good" squad lead play into camping/hiding near objs or not having a spawn point near anything

what are you hoping will happen? because i can't see the logic. unless you just desperately want to turn the game into walking simulator for non-vehicle modes

[placid wigeon]

Do rally points give the squad lead points per spawn? If not they should o encourage squad leaders to use them, because so many squad leaders have no interest in putting them down.

[ocean swift]

they do but honestly rally points just suck. they're very loud and the delay to spawn on them is a bit too long

most squad leads that bother to put them down also just put them in really shit spots

[random folio]

It would still be worth it to get a spawn anywhere if it weren't for the fact that a single squad mate can do the same thing with 0 downside.

[ocean swift]

i mean here's the reality right, unless you're trying to spawn and walk straight into the meatgrinder, spawn beacons are useless. you're actually better off respawning at a nearby obj and running a flank from there. otherwise you also have squad spawns, which are just better in every way though the "in combat" detection is absolutely turbo-fucked. the only benefit to a spawn beacon is if your squad leader runs an absolutely insane flank and gets to the opposite end of the map, and even then it's just gonna get found in the next 1-2 minutes after providing 1 or 2 spawns (up to interpretation and situation whether that's 1 or 2 players or 1 or 2 full squad spawns)

spawn beacon just sucks, straight up. i've had squad leads that place them and i'd just rather not even spawn on it because for it to even stay up long term you have to place it somewhere borderline useless.

and to touch on in combat detection being shit, some of the 32/64 versions of maps you can't spawn on teammates once they leave safe zone because the enemies are "too close" despite being in another room on the other side of a wall that you have to walk through 3 hallways to get to.

[placid wigeon]

Improved combat detection would certainly help mitigate the issue, but so often I have it that a squad lead doesn't place a spawn, Tries to storm an objective. Half the squad die and none of them can respawn at a useful distance to the objective because the rest of the squad are all marked as in combat (whether or not they're actually actively in combat).

Then the rest of the squad just get wiped

[sour kraken]

The biggest problem I have with bbr right now is movement and spawning. There is no real negatives for rushing in to awful plays, dying, giving up, respawning 50m away on a squad mate, sprinting at super human speeds right back to where you died, and repeat. It causes this repetitive cycle of run/die/respawn. There needs to be something to make people not just fall into this cycle. Most likly a whole rework to movement, map design, and respawning. Otherwise nothing will change and the game will just keep losing more and more players because they get tired of the cycle.

[tranquil lantern]

agree. players need to value staying in battle more than squad spawning.

[untold knoll]

Excellent suggestion, would single-handedly fix the entire game 11/10 implement immediately

[lavish wyvern]

remove spawn protection. If you spawn on a mate in a bad position you deserve to die

It should not be negative for the shooter

[snow flume]

for squad spawning, yes i think thats worth trying out. but for objective spawning i think its somewhat of a necessity

[lavish wyvern]

I don't see it

[snow flume]

snipers sniping into a obj thats been leveled, is my main concern with a total removal of spawn protec

[lavish wyvern]

map issue like many things

[wispy nexus]

yes map issue, but spawning on objectives should be fine with spawn protection. Spawning on people should not have that same protection. and hell squad spawnig is both so easy, and also so goddamn terrible with the "in sight" spawn blocking.

[lavish wyvern]

I don't think there should be spawn protection at all. If you want to spawn into an active zone that's your risk. Granted spawn zones need to be save from snipers

[wispy nexus]

yeah that would be stupid not to have on an objective.