Sniper Rifles (General) - Feedback

[static merlin]

[hearty shoal]

i mean DMR buffs/glint changes were part of that too

[quasi cairn]

Yep. Maybe next he'll put in kill cams too

[vagrant thistle]

the changes wouldnt be bad

if they actually balanced the snipers with it

[strong epoch]

nah, the trails would be bad no matter what

oki treating sniper rifles like fucking Tron

[quasi cairn]

Make snipers into the Halo sniper rifle

[hearty shoal]

gotta add trails to SMGs so when people get flanked they know exactly where to turn /s

[vagrant thistle]

a lot of people complain about snipers but they've never played sniper to realize how dog it is

[strong epoch]

like, does he for some reason think the tracers are invisible for sniper rifles and only sniper rifles? that sometimes feels like the case with the M200, but its not at all the case for the other rifles. trails are gonna make it so that someone could stick their entire head a foot up their own ass and still be able to find the sniper who isnt even shooting directly at them

[quasi cairn]

Basically

[static merlin]

Should I ping oki at this point

[strong epoch]

i wish he would just let the fucking paint dry on the glint changes for long range and medium range scopes before throwing 31 other poorly considered recon nerfs on top

[static merlin]

Cause this is just dumb asf

[strong epoch]

no

[hearty shoal]

1000000000000000000% agree

[static merlin]

I understand people annoyed at snipers in cod because it one shots body but in this game it only 1 shots head

[hearty shoal]

if it was like older BF games where classes were leveled seperately

people would really get how bad it was

[vagrant thistle]

honestly sniper feels bad to play and play against

[quasi cairn]

And only if you're not wearing a helmet

[quasi cairn]

Why, just move quick and use smoke. They suck up close

[hearty shoal]

i figure people would like snipers a lot more if he restricted the firing zone a bit more making it so you can actually go after snipers

there are too many zones with great vantage points that the other team just cant go to

[vagrant thistle]

the only issue with snipers on the receiving end is shitty map design

not the snipers themselves

cough cough dusty dew rework

[static merlin]

Snipers r fun if you are good, if you’re aren’t that good you basically aren’t gonna have a good time

[hearty shoal]

i miss old district

peak sniper map

[static merlin]

New district is good too

[hearty shoal]

eh

[static merlin]

Just need to find good flanking positions imo

[hearty shoal]

its okay

[static merlin]

People don’t realise how good medium range sniping is

When you have a long supressor

[quasi cairn]

Yeah but it's now very hard to flank when i have a fucking great sign telling everyone where I am

Best bet is to stay as far in safe zone as you can so as much of the glint distance is inside the safe zone as possible

[hearty shoal]

my favorite part of medium range sniping/flankingis my squad spawning on me mag dumping with no supressor killing nothing then asking why i didnt shoot anything

[static merlin]

I think we all felt that pain as a stealth flanking sniper at some point

[static merlin]

They don’t spawn on you when u tell them you have a great flank then spawn in the worst time possible

[hearty shoal]

then exclaim snipers are useless kekw

[quasi cairn]

Spawns
Stands up
Volley fires entire mag
Hits nothing
Attracts all the attention
Dies

[hearty shoal]

a new one is DMR assaults spamming DMRs ON TOP OF THE SPAWN BEACON

[quasi cairn]

I had one guy spawn on me and try and light up a passing attack chopper with his pistol

[formal lynx]

He’s trying ok

[coarse umbra]

It's really funny how Oki doesn't even communicating his reasoning whatsoever

He's just, oh I don't like snipers, most of the community also doesn't like sniper

Let's nerf them to the ground until they disappear

Oki is also like Vote 👍👎as if it isn't expected that most of the community hates snipers, but oh wow democracy

[quasi cairn]

"How did I come up with the new sniper nerfs? It was revealed to me in a dream"

[winter haven]

I love it when I get a clear shot, and suddenly I'm just seeing someone's camo'd butt right in my face.

[wild lake]

it's not event that, it's like who tf asked for massive bullet tracers on sniper 💀

I wish before adding stuff like that we had polls, or "do you think this is Ok?"

Or anything

[winter haven]

Most studios will not listen to suggestions at all, specifically. Games designed by committee are usually kinda crap

[wild lake]

There's a whole army of moderator, having a new channel or just a poll shouldn't be hard.

[wild lake]

I don't need Oki to listen, I just need info, see our reaction, then he decide if he wants it or not.

[coarse umbra]

There's a difference between listening to the community and making foresighted decisions.

[quasi cairn]

They always run straight forward when they spawn on you. It's never off to the side. It's always straight into your line of sight

[quasi cairn]

They seem to have done neither

[winter haven]

In my case they are also looking to snipe, and so go prone and snipe from my position, just far enough forward to steal my angle.

[quasi cairn]

You're lucky, mine usually want to snipe too but think that standing up and letting off as many shots as possible as quickly as possible is the best way to do that

[static merlin]

Without suppressors and missing a target walking in a straight line too 👍

[quasi cairn]

Of course. got to attract as much attention as possible

[static merlin]

What do you guys think?

Encouraging Sniper Players to play closer and be more involved in a match by making tracers start at a certain distance.

If the tracers start immediately it heavily punishes players who are aggressive and find good flanking positions with snipers near the frontline while encouraging even more snipers to camp farther back.

One of the best abilities snipers have is its ability to kill in 1 shot. There would be less bullet tracers needed to kill someone making them a very stealth tool for flanking or catching people at off angles.

By adding tracers this directly nerfs more aggressive, thoughtful and skillful playstyle of using bolt action snipers and forces them to camp near the backline which not a lot of people respect or like in the first place.

However, by making tracers start at a certain distance say 300m and above it would encourage more sniper players to play close and become more involved in the match and make it the match more fun as a whole.

[quasi cairn]

Are we talking tracers as in bullets or the big fuckoff line

[icy fulcrum]

oh wow, i was in a game where a sniper got 70 - 0 on scoreboard just once this month. guess we gotta nerf snipers again rather than assuming maybe it was an aimbot, or a littlebird, or that my team is just stupid, or that there was no counter-sniping, or that there wasn't enough smokes, or that the sniper was just playing defensively.
doesn't matter, if a sniper can OSK me in a game with low TTK while i'm air-strafing, drop-shoting, or healing myself with no penalty, they are 100% OP and deserve two nerfs for every one buff. i must know where they are at all times as well as their street address and a button to kick them from the server.

[static merlin]

Big fuck off line

[jaunty lance]

I don't know who thought these changes to the medium scopes and the now giant smoke line that even people with below room temp iq will be able to see are good but these are just bad changes I never had a problem figuring out where snipers are when they had medium scopes if they missed me I'd know where they were by the second shot because in my opinion at least the bullet tracers were fucking easy as hell to track if you paid the slightest attention but if they killed me I just let the death cam direct me to the snipers position which usually after your dead the snipers gonna pick another target and shoot at them and your death cam is already angled towards them so your gonna see it and then you know medium scopes I believe it's around 400m where people start getting real small and you basically have to be pixel perfect with every shot and that was the disadvantage to medium scopes no glint for less zoom meaning targets are harder to hit the farther out they are seems like a pretty fair trade I've been engaged countless times by an entire squad for just taking a single shot at someone before any of these changes I don't think people had a problem figuring out where you are before any of these changes. Also as a side note I think the nerfs to every weapon in the game by making it so none of the barrel attachments allow for increased damage was another awful change

for whatever reason the devs seem to keep wanting to make horrible balancing decisions and I can not for my life understand it

[hearty shoal]

you should differentiate tracers and trails just in case theres a language barrier or something since trails already exist

[wanton burrow]

man fuck sniping at this point

oki is doing EVERYTHING he can to make sniping as fucking loud as possible

i'm going with the m110 man the devs just hate snipers

[hearty shoal]

*mk20

[wanton burrow]

i like the mk20 more but i like 2 shots too

i'll be playing the pseudo-sniper to imagine i'm sniping

[strong epoch]

ssg irons

[wanton burrow]

sure hope oki adds bullet trails to every other gun

[wild lake]

Like the bullet tracers weren't big enough already

[static merlin]

Got it

[strong epoch]

exactly. imagine trying to use Support class with fucking trails

[nocturne smelt]

Played recon for a whole night again with L96 med scope and I still haven't noticed too big of a difference with the glint

I got counter-sniped more I would say but all the people I got counter sniped by I could see their glint so, I had a chance to either win the sniper duel or put an obstacle between me and them

Which worked fine

I didn't get killed by DMRs any more than previously and only had a few times where infantry saw my glint and responded to it by dodging

I do think the massive bullet trail lines he's planning to add will be bad tho

And that the med scope glint should either have the curve flipped or start at 300m instead of 200

[static merlin]

My playstyle is extremely aggressive compared to the others here so it will mostly affect me ig

[next quail]

i'm gonna be honest i like that the snipers are now gonna make a specific noise to let you know your being shot at by a sniper but that trail shit has to go

and i wouldn't mind if medium scopes didn't have glint

[strong epoch]

it might be fine on the L96 with its excellent all-around stats, but i still think Oki needs to revert back to glintless medium scopes on the SSG69 until he's willing to properly balance it. the rifle has way too many downsides now for its extremely low performance bracket compared to even the SV98, much less the other SRs. Its i think by far the slowest firing sniper rifle, by far the slowest velocity, lowest damage by a fair amount, can only zero out to 500m (i think every DMR can zero to 1000m). and now on top of all that its got to deal with the medium scope glint, and potentially huge sound spread increase and bullet trails. all that might be fine for an experienced player who simply likes the gun (me), but thats really damn rough for new players (or even experienced players who dont vibe with the gun but just prestiged)

Of course, I'd much prefer an actual rebalancing for the gun (and the category as a whole), but being realistic, it will probably be quite a while before oki gets around to touching any of the SR's individual stats, so the aforementioned suggestion would be better than nothing until then (or hell, just make it the shtick for the SSG; the unique lack of the glint and other changes for SRs, giving it increased stealth over the other SRs in exchange for its poor performance otherwise)

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah that would be an interesting niche for that gun, it's by far the worst sniper I never use it

[formal lynx]

My main gripe is the “why?”

Oki has been putting in work

And I can respect that

I like him

But I don’t get it

There’s this distinct lack of transparency and reasoning behind some changes

A lot of them are “yeah I can see why they did that”

These aren’t

[steady mist]

Theres no player interaction between a sniper and a rifleman

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah it's about adding counter play to snipers

[steady mist]

A sniper shoots, gets a kill, and there was nothing the rifleman could have done to be aware a sniper was aiming at them

[strong epoch]

im the opposite, it and the MSR are pretty much the only sniper rifles I use (no, im not a masochist... probably), so i was very quick to notice the negative impact the medium scope glint has had on the viability of the SSG69. its only juuust barely viable right now because its pretty dogshit beyond 200m in its current state anyway, so youre not likely to be using it much against targets who can see your glint anyway, but you still light up like a christmas tree to anyone beyond 200m behind those targets, and generally you cant return fire because of how low its velocity is and how much drop it has (not to mention 500m max zero), so on certain maps i kinda just dont use it anymore; its not worth attracting the attention of L96s and M200s 800m away

[strong epoch]

theres arguably just as little player interaction between the UMP player and the exo-support player they just gunned down before the support could even react

[nocturne smelt]

Feel like I might've been farming SSG69 users last night

[nocturne smelt]

False

[steady mist]

Uhuh

[nocturne smelt]

Support has about 5 ways he can respond to someone running at him with a SMG

[steady mist]

Did the UMP unlock armor break or something?

[formal lynx]

I get that but… that’s already a solved issue. The damage indicator tells you more than enough after you die / take a hit marker.

The sound effect changes? Fucking love those, the trail? Why? We already have glint, why do we need MORE info on where the funny man with the slow ass gun is?

[nocturne smelt]

No the trail is idiotic I fully agree

[formal lynx]

4 of those include death

[eager osprey]

i think the trail is a good idea IF it replaced glint. both are too much

[formal lynx]

Yes

That

[nocturne smelt]

Yes

[formal lynx]

That above me

[nocturne smelt]

Either would be fine

[formal lynx]

It’s one or the other, not both

[nocturne smelt]

Both is overkill

[formal lynx]

It’s like playing connect the dots

[nocturne smelt]

And glint imo is better because it gives you counterplay before you get shot

[formal lynx]

“Ok there’s the bullet impact hole, I follow this convenient line and would you look at that, there’s a big ass rip-off sun telling me that I was able to follow the line.”

[formal lynx]

If ONLY it was not ANGLED by TWENTY FUCKING DEGREES

seriously!

[strong epoch]

dependant on network conditions honestly. im still fairly often dying to UMPs and other very low ttk guns who can outflank my exo-m249 ass all day long before i have any time to react.

[icy fulcrum]

there should be a heads up display messege whenever an smg user is nearby to give players a chance to counterplay.

[nocturne smelt]

There is it's called you hear them running near you

[formal lynx]

“An SMG user is 100m from your location and is approaching rapidly”

[nocturne smelt]

It's so easy to hear enemy footsteps near you

[formal lynx]

Lotta people play with music…

[strong epoch]

amonst the footsteps of your much-closer-to-you teammates? fat chance

[steady mist]

At what point are we allowed to call it skill issue, mg36 getting ads speed and run speed buffs means you are the problem if you can't react to a gun that has the same ttk and a higher move speed

[formal lynx]

They’re distinctly louder

I can tell my mates from an enemy

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah I mean playing with music puts you at a huge disadvantage and shouldn't be balanced around

Enemy footsteps are much louder

[strong epoch]

if theyre at the same distance as your teammates sure. but they can wipe you out way further than that, why would they get that close first?

[formal lynx]

Because SMG

[nocturne smelt]

And yeah some of the time I mix up teammate footsteps but then I just check behind me, see it's a teammate, move on

[strong epoch]

you dont gotta shove the SMG down someones throat to get a kill with it in bbr. they all still do just fine at and beyond 50m

[steady mist]

The excuse is always the same, SMGs beam despite falloff and lmgs are just too slow despite point shooting being more than enough

[nocturne smelt]

Sure but if they're at 50m and you're using an LMG you should be able to fight them

[steady mist]

The entire community will argue this isn't true for reasons

[formal lynx]

Yeah but most SMG gamers run CQC, they take buildings, city streets, any actual flanker will not even BE in areas where they need to kill past 10 meters

[nocturne smelt]

This

[formal lynx]

Ofc it wildly depends on style

[strong epoch]

again, dependant on whether netcode gives you time to react, or just kills you within two damage indicators on your end of the encounter

[formal lynx]

But I figure that’s the vast majority

[static merlin]

Yeah the noise is good and a decent change

[nocturne smelt]

But also all of these cases do have counterplay and it's fully disingenuous to say they don't

[steady mist]

Maybe just stop kneecapping yourself with exo armor and watch as you can magically play better

[formal lynx]

It feels shit sometimes, I’ll be honest

Both as the flanker and the flanked on

[nocturne smelt]

What exactly? Just people out shooting you sometimes?

90% of my deaths I'm like "this is how I could've played that better and not died"

[formal lynx]

Being outshot faster than I can reasonably be expected to react. It’s different from being dropped on or just skill diff’d those don’t bother me.

[nocturne smelt]

Game has low TTK that's just part of the game

[formal lynx]

But when I’m in a scenario where we both spot eachother at the same time and I simply lose because his gun dumps 500 bullets into my dick before I even finish my ADS is just “UGH”

[nocturne smelt]

You could've anticipated where they were gonna come from, but also sometimes someone gets the drop on you and you die

Yeah I mean he picked the gun that does that

If you were behind cover and already ADS'ed like you should be to win an engagement with an LMG then it might've gone differently

[formal lynx]

Yeah I mean I AM that guy sometimes and I just feel dirty

A lot of my kills don’t feel deserved

I just had the better gun

Anyway entirely off topic

But nice to have a discussion without insults

Let’s fix that

[strong epoch]

shhhh topics arent real

[formal lynx]

@nocturne smelt you’re a poopoo head

[strong epoch]

you egglant

fuck

eggplant*

[strong epoch]

fuck this im outta here

[formal lynx]

Mr Sheeran

Get off the table please

[void hornet]

Just here to say I worry about the addition of a trail to the sniper. Looks amazing, but the strength/duration could be toned back. That or tie the trail to velocity to give low velocity snipers more of a place in close range engagements.

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah it's too much in the video, maybe he'll tone it down before release

[static merlin]

If he doesn’t m, its joever

[strong epoch]

i wish he'd just hold the fuck off on adding it until the playerbase can get a feel for the new glint and sound changes. though im still of the opinion that its unnecessary regardless. DMRs should be the "haul ass to a new spot after every 4th shot taken" gun, not snipers. Players with sniper rifles cant outrun ARs, BRs, or SMGs, but also then cant reliably defend themselves when those players catch up to them, so its just a big "fuck you" to snipers when games make it this easy to find snipers

[molten moon]

the sniper trails are interesting, I'll have to play with them to get a full opinion. But what I can say now is the duration needs to be reduced and the opacity lowered, it's basically a line pointing directly to where the sniper is atm

[strong epoch]

aye. this feels like one of those things that oki is gonna add regardless of player pushback, so id settle for a decrease in opacity, perhaps with a similar curve to what the medium scopes get for their glint depending on range

(and duration obv)

[eager osprey]

alternatively

completely replace glint with the sniper trails

[strong epoch]

hm.

definitely would be interested to see how that plays. i would have significantly less of a problem with the trails, even as they are in that video, if they replaced glint instead of accompanying it

tbh i dont really understand why oki is trying to push sniper rifles into the same boring, "not really sniping" niche as every other run-and-gun FPS treats snipers. BBR's DMRs already sit firmly in that niche, as they hit almost as hard as, say, BF's sniper rifles at a higher rate of fire. BBR already has that niche filled. I'd prefer balancing them in the opposite direction, slowing down fire rate and run speed

[spring crane]

The longrange scope glint should be ballenced. The broken state of it is the reason why Players are using medium scopes. Now we have glint on medium but only at the sniper class. And now they add trails. Thats Just a Fuck you snipers. I have played many rounds and never had a Match where snipers dominated

[quasi cairn]

Snipers never dominate. They make up a small fraction of the total kills. They're just easy targets for nerfing as they're unpopular

[spring crane]

The next nerf is just the removal of the sniper class

[solid oracle]

Again, sniper should be the stealth killer, right now it is very far from that. People used medium scopes because of how strong they were for snipers. If they working around only on the glint for long range scopes it would be fine. The main role of the sniper is supporting in general, be with strategic kills or be with spotting while being at a safe distance (exceptions aside of course). The main class used is not even the sniper and it is receiving this amount of work to make it even more spottable. A good player can easily outplay a sniper with positioning and movement.

[spring crane]

I agree. Sniper should be more stealthy not more visible. I Play mostly as a countersniper and i can find most snipers after one shoot because they have tracer Munition. If they would be more stealthy countersniping would be at least a bit challengeing

[nocturne smelt]

The problem is that, while "snipers should be stealthy" sounds nice, it's not necessarily healthy for the game

When counter sniping is hard, all the snipers shoot at infantry instead of other snipers

Counter sniping is often the only way to deal with an enemy sniper

And even with the current glint changes it's still pretty easy to find a cozy spot and just shoot at infantry who can't shoot back

[spring crane]

Most Maps have places where the snipers are. You Just have to wait until a pixel moves

[nocturne smelt]

I had a game last night with a mid scope where I got 22 kills in one life shooting at infantry

Cuz I was in a good spot

I still think the tracers as shown in the video are overkill

But snipers are deadly and there needs to be some counter play. Yeah the pro players tend to not get sniped but there needs to be counter play accessible to the average player

[hearty shoal]

:x i mean you could just let players grow and learn organically rather than spoon feeding them

[nocturne smelt]

Well it's about communicating "there's a threat in this direction that you should play around" which imo the med scope glint addressed well

Otherwise it's all map knowledge of guessing where the snipers will be

[spring crane]

Snipers use only the mid scope because the longrange glint is broken you are a light Tower with it.

[nocturne smelt]

Well with the new change it'll be an actual trade off (if they actually get the glint to only show to who you're aiming at)

[autumn violet]

SARCASM- next sniper nerf: if you are killed by a sniper while any class other then recon, on your next life you will have real time gps coordinates to there location and a 2000lb gps guided JDAM.

[spring crane]

And longshoot Bonus for recon class got removed

[floral wharf]

More sniper nerfs 😂 Good thing bf2042 was on sale for $10. Going to take a break until they fix recons

Devs should at least play their own game

[jaunty lance]

I mean with the death cam that's already a thing you get pointed towards who killed you as far as I'm concerned if the same players or squad are getting repeatedly killed by a sniper that's on them it isn't hard to find a sniper even before any of these changes you can easily overwhelm them

[autumn violet]

Hey bud it was SARCASM joking about how the devs seem to have it out for recon players.

[spring crane]

Its Looks Like thats just reality

[jaunty lance]

I'm aware you were joking but I was just pointing out the game already points you in the direction of players that kill you

[strong epoch]

alright alright lets all just kiss it out, yeah?

[quasi cairn]

They do but they only play assault

[hearty crow]

holy fudge actually playing with med scopes its so much worse i feel like a magnate for other snipers instead of being able to hunt them like i used too

[hearty crow]

preach

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah the med scope glint made sniping even more position dependent

You really have to find a good peek now

[solid oracle]

one thing i gotta say, trails hurt way more snipers in general, specially aggressive snipers

glint will barely hurt a good aggressive sniper player

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah I play pretty aggressive with hard med range flanks and the med scope glint has been roughly a wash for me

I get counter sniped more, but I can see exactly where the counter snipers are more easily so I die to them less often

Trails might make it a bit too easy for groups of infantry to evade

Guess I'm willing to see how it plays tho

[spring crane]

i started to use ironsight

but its not good for my eyes because i rub my face against the screen to see something

[nocturne smelt]

You're better off just practicing with med scopes

If they can see your glint, you can see theirs

[strong epoch]

not necessarily true

glint hiding still hasnt been fixed

[nocturne smelt]

I mean

[spring crane]

no i want to play ironsight for so long until glint gets fixed. maby they will add glint to ironsight to

[nocturne smelt]

Okay 1 in 100 deaths maybe

[nocturne smelt]

If you want to handicap yourself I guess

[strong epoch]

eh. its not very hard to game the system to hide your glint with sandbags or head peeking

[spring crane]

5kills per 1 death

[nocturne smelt]

20 kills per 1 death

[strong epoch]

just the other day, i was killed by someone 1500m away abusing sandbags and height advantage to hide glint on a windmill in valley

[nocturne smelt]

I believe it but that's pretty rare

[strong epoch]

not really. when i played much more often, i saw it all the time

[nocturne smelt]

If you're getting killed from 1500m away just put a sandbag in that sight line

[nocturne smelt]

Also in this case they could not see your glint either

[strong epoch]

again, not true

i wish it were

[nocturne smelt]

You saying the glint curve is broken?

[strong epoch]

it was a long range scope

there is no glint curve to speak of in this case

[nocturne smelt]

You were using a long range scope?

[strong epoch]

no, they were

[nocturne smelt]

And you were counter sniping them with a med scope?

[strong epoch]

oh, i see what youre saying

yes, they could not see my glint. but not because of a "i cant see you, you cant see me" type thing

if i had been using a long range scope, they would have been able to see my glint but i would not have been able to see theirs

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah, but that scenario is unchanged by the med scope glint, is what I meant

[strong epoch]

sure, but its glint hiding also isnt something you can only do past X distance from someone

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah

[strong epoch]

im sure there were plenty of people he was preying on within that 200-800m window

[nocturne smelt]

I'm sure some people are abusing that

But I have not commonly seen it

[strong epoch]

aye, and even in this case, the sandbags looked set up more for cover than for glint hiding. its just not a hard thing to pull off, even accidentally

[nocturne smelt]

When I'm sniping I always make sure to block the sight line of their long range snipers tho, so that's probably why

Tho obviously you could also do it at closer range but it's at least somewhat positioning and setup dependent

[strong epoch]

yeah, its probably not something youll notice unless youre either used to noticing it, or have enough of a back-and-forth battle with the same sniper to get a read on exactly what theyre doing

[nocturne smelt]

If you were going to abuse that it'd make more sense to do it at long range

I tend to just block counter sniper's angles on me rather than fighting them if possible

[strong epoch]

aye. and thankfully only a few maps really reward glint hiding

but IMO its a just a really dumb thing to still be having to deal with months after release

[hearty crow]

turning sniping into who can point and click the white dots faster sucks. had a guy dead to rights but right when i zoomed to line up my shot he saw me and brained me before i could line fire

[spring crane]

sniping is who finds the beacon of the other first

[static merlin]

If you find off angles people don’t expect they wouldn’t notice glint most of the time

[static merlin]

Try red dot on canted iirc it won’t glint if you are using canted

[spring crane]

there is no short range scope

[hearty crow]

maybe the ""handicap"" of trying to snipe pixels on a screen with iron sights is just preferable to some people instead the handicap of letting everyone on the planet know exactly where you are

[static merlin]

Yeah for balance and that’s fine tbh

[hearty crow]

i know i sure am considering it

[static merlin]

I just add a canted sight on my acog

[hearty crow]

also aggressive snipers are more of a problem then when medium scopes had no glint

[spring crane]

the snipers who played close quater?

[hearty crow]

cause 200m M200 is basically hit scan and gets no glint while when medium scopes are trying to shoot pixels at 500m and your opponent sneezing is often enough to move out of the way

all i have noticed now is a lot more snipers playing in your face to avoid glint

if they had a problem with sniping its more quick scoping then person in the middle of no where trying to hit pixels on his screen

if you got hit by a medium scope at 500 ~ 800m you were most likely sitting still in the open. sucks the sniper rained on your camping parade

[static merlin]

Its either you were standing still or not moving much predictably, you were going very predictably, or mf just got lucky or is literally simo hayha

[hearty crow]

yuuuuuuup

[static merlin]

I need a guy who can snipe consistently over 500meter and name himself simo hayha that’d be cool

[rigid shard]

if you get sniped over 300 meters as an infantry it's a skill issue man

[hearty crow]

checks upcoming updates

ok so can they remove medium scope glint with all those new changes

like snipers leave trails can be heard longer range and now have their own bullet sound so can med scope please oh please go back to no glint

[spring crane]

no they play only assault, they dont want to get sniped

[wild lake]

I mean

glint on medium is fine

just don't use medium for what's it not made for

aka long ranging sniping

[spring crane]

eighter for everyone or no one

[wild lake]

the curve for medium glint, still need to be swapped left & right to me tho

[spring crane]

we use medium because longrange is broken. with longrange you are basicly a lighthouse

[wild lake]

you didn't read the update right?

#dev-wip message

read again please

[hearty crow]

maybe you need to read his comment again. he is talking about how bright long range glint is not the range others can see it

[hearty crow]

that would explain why assault has DMRs

[wild lake]

but being a lighthouse to only to one target isn't problematic?

[hearty crow]

i seriously doubt only the person you are trying to knock the brains out of is the only person that will notice

[spring crane]

sniper vs sniper who finds the light faster

[hearty crow]

👆 this

[wild lake]

just look at the damn video 💀

[spring crane]

as far as i can remember is that you cant see a flashlight that far

[wild lake]

LMAO yes that's nice too

[hearty crow]

i did look at the video

and you are naive if only 1 person will notice that

[wild lake]

Then you shouldn't have problem with it

Doesn't matter, they can't hit you as long as they're not a sniper.

If they're a sniper, it's a skill base duel.

[hearty crow]

then why have glint then if it doesn't matter?

[spring crane]

if you are inside of a building or have the sun from behind. you get still the glint?

[hearty crow]

how is who can point and click white dot faster a skill?

[wild lake]

It does matter, for them to avoid your shot/take cover. But they still can't attack you from there. So, for you it doesn't matter. For them it does.

[hearty crow]

that is testing people's twitch reflexs not skill

[wild lake]

ok so sniping isn't a skill?

[hearty crow]

according to how you define it yes

[wild lake]

They also have glint if they aim at you.

[hearty crow]

and its who can click it first

[wild lake]

Like, the glint is fine now.

Yeah that's how gun fight works

[spring crane]

if you are inside of a building or have the sun from behind. you get still the glint?

[hearty crow]

its a test of reflexs then

not skill

[wild lake]

no idea, I think you have the glint. But don't hit me with the "not realistic" on blockgame.

Also by night there's no glint

[wild lake]

reflex are part of skill tho

[hearty crow]

no they aren't

that is winning the genetic lottery

[wild lake]

LMAO

Whatever you say man. The only thing that's probably "problematic" is trail for medium/close range sniping. Long range sniping is more than fine.

[wild lake]

btw cover/building, will make the glint cone less big IIRC.

so scoping on a brick tile compared to in open space, will make a difference

[nocturne smelt]

Bro sniper duels are for sure a test of skill

[spring crane]

here a scope addon to reduce glint

[wild lake]

I think it was suggested

[nocturne smelt]

If you're consistently losing your sniper duels you need a better strategy

Try dodging their shot first, try peeking unpredictably

Try blocking the angle, taking a different shot, then coming back to shoot them

[hearty crow]

or see a guy. go to aim and he sees your glow and brains you first cause he can twitch better then you can

[nocturne smelt]

Sorry but skill issue

Duck as soon as you see his glint

[hearty crow]

you miss read if you think that is what i said

[wild lake]

Red = ennemy far away. Blue = you + line of sight. Gray = the building. You don't want to hug the window or cover. You want to make as much distance, so the sight on you is as narrow as possible.

[nocturne smelt]

You said "go to aim"

[wild lake]

This will reduce glint + harder to aim at you.

[nocturne smelt]

If somebody has you sighted

Don't go to aim

Because then you'll get shot in the head

First dodge their shot or shake their aim or get behind cover

[wild lake]

You could even peak at them with bino, if they didn't see you. Then 3D spot/ping them. Then you Scope and kill.

[hearty crow]

he didn't notice me until i tried to shoot him first but he twitched faster then i could

[nocturne smelt]

Take a shot, get behind cover, take another shot

[wild lake]

don't play sniper, it's a lost cause, you obviously only need reflex.

Too bad, you weren't born to be sniper :/

[nocturne smelt]

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▶ Play video

[hearty crow]

hey he finally gets it

[wild lake]

I'm being sarcastic there

[hearty crow]

so was i

[nocturne smelt]

When I switched to PC I played an aim trainer 30min a day for a few weeks and my twitch aim got way better

So if that's where you're struggling there's also a solution

[hearty crow]

after doing a 9 to 5 in a factory last thing i want to do is sweat

[nocturne smelt]

Another tip is to have your sensitivity low

10 inch 180 distance helps a lot with precision aiming

[hearty crow]

maybe

i tend to cycle between roles though

not a dedicated sniper

just some maps i loath the cqc so rather sit back and chill

but with glint on med scopes chilling isn't really an option no more

[nocturne smelt]

I play on a like 16in by 16in mousepad with low sensitivity always and it's good for aim at any range cuz you can use all the muscles on your arm to aim instead of just your wrist

Another option for sniping that works on some maps pretty well is to go off on the islands on the side

Or across the river

[hearty crow]

i have a smol corner on my PC table for my mouse

i need to do a 180 with the flick of my wrist in some fire fights

[nocturne smelt]

On Isle, Kodiak, Zalfi, I've had a lot of success

I mean I can 180 with a flick of my arm lol

[hearty crow]

lol

augh first they nerf my grass then they buff the trees

i'd use C4 to make Kodiak north east spawn zone a sniping heaven getting rid of those trees

and the old way they did grass i could set mines in soooooooo many more places

makes me the big sad

[nocturne smelt]

You gotta try on Kodiak Invasion going across the river and sniping

There's tons of cover over there and nobody ever sees it coming

[hearty crow]

i remember yesterday trying to demo those trees on Kodiak and nothing happened and was like "fudge, they onto me"

[hearty crow]

not much of a fan of invasion. seems to snowball too hard one way or another

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah it's lame you can't knock down trees anymore

Invasion is great for sniping

It's not a great mode but it is great for sniping

[hearty crow]

i only really snipe cause i hate snipers

and the best way to fight fire is with fire

also only class that sits still long enough for me to hit

recon in this weird place that the only solid counter is other recon. not that i see that as a bad thing

well at long range anyways

[nocturne smelt]

Gotta practice to hit the shots on people who are running

People love running in straight lines

[hearty crow]

not me i sort have learned to subconsciously twitch and change direction a tad playing this game

when running

[strong epoch]

its already super not worth taking those shots, and with bullet trails its gonna be actively a bad idea to take them

[nocturne smelt]

I would say like 30% of my infantry kills are on people running

Not going to stop taking those shots, just gotta land the first one 😉

That's one of the worst parts of the trails in general is that it punishes missing more than anything

[balmy cargo]

I moved on to DMRs after that glint change. There's no hope for snipers in its current state.

[hearty shoal]

im feelin roughly the same although im full copium on snipers maybe ill end up using irons

[balmy cargo]

Man sniper on ironsights is just not sniping anymore. Wish I had your patience

[hearty shoal]

I said maybe i feel the same way lmao

[hearty crow]

or of the guy you brained has friends that see him drop

[hearty crow]

the red dot canted site might be a better idea

bonked a rival sniper at 1.2k meters with it cause i saw his glint

took me like 7 shots but he had no idea where i was at least

[lime hornet]

i personally dont think the glint on the medium scopes and especially the vapor trail is a good idea. i learned to use medium scopes because i got tired of being counter sniped through foliage where i know the person could not see me but my glint and they still have not fixed that to my knowledge. if they want to nerf the sniper class without making them more visible its easy. drop the base bullet velocity on the higher end snipers (M200, L96, Rem 700) by 200-300m . also i dont know if this is still a thing but remove no one shot anywhere on the body over 1000m. make it so its only 1 shot headshots

[hearty shoal]

glints showing through foliage has been fixed also the only sniper that 1 shots at 1000m is the m200

[lime hornet]

thank you for answering. wasnt sure about the glint through foliage but thinking about it i havent seen it in a while. i do think the m200 needs a nerf though. the fastest stock bullet velocity and one of the faster rechambering sniper rifles too really doesnt need more reasons to use it. i love the sniper class and have no problems with the guns getting a nerf but i dont agree with making the sniper more visible.

[hearty shoal]

i mean with the incoming trail/glint changes i think other snipers need to be brought up to the m200s level to be honest

[solid oracle]

or each one be some kind of specialist in one area

like L96 being better at aggressive sniping

and M200 being better at long range sniping

SSG69 could be great for medium range sniping, having a faster bolt cycle and faster reload

while still having slower speed and dmg

[hearty shoal]

that would force people to use rifles they dont like only because its got the stats they want the exact same issue i imagine a lot of people have with the m200

[gleaming skiff]

With trails now active. It would be neat seeing subsonic ammo (often used with suppressors to avoid the loud crack of normal ammo) had a shorter lasting trail as they are likely subsonic rounds if the sound signature is anything to go off of.

[vagrant thistle]

Lighthouse class is now active

[gleaming skiff]

?

[vagrant thistle]

They added bullet trails

Update was a few minutes ago

[gleaming skiff]

This is known. What does that have to do with being a lighthouse?

[vagrant thistle]

Its incredibly easy to find snipers

Way to easy

Hence it being a "lighthouse"

[gleaming skiff]

I suppose. It certainly encourages staying waaaay back in the safe zone and sniping out of it where the only way to counter them is sniping as well. Defiantly makes me not want to move forward with the team while sniping. I'm sure such an outcome was factored into the decision.

I just think it would be neat to lessen the trail time or remove it all together when using a suppressor and adjusting velocity to match with lower power of subsonic rounds.

I'm just talking as somone who enjoys long range shooting IRL and coming from ArmA. There's some neat stuff they are already doing in BBit and could adjust more. Balances to be made and so forth.

[quasi cairn]

Oki's commitment to milsim light

[heady pine]

so are snipers now completely useless on infantry servers?

[quasi cairn]

Not if you consider making pretty trails to be a use

But otherwise yes

[heady pine]

sad

[quasi cairn]

It's bullshit. Oki nerfed snipers last week, then rolled out another nerf within a week. That means he had already decided on a second nerf without even waiting to see how his first nerf affected gameplay and balance

[heady pine]

A nerf was definitely needed, I've had 2-3 dozens games with 20-50 kd on small maps, but not like this

[lime hornet]

just played a quick game today. sniper had his rifle suppressed and the only way i knew he a bit behind me was because of the contrail. this is only going to encourage more snipers sitting way far back then being remotely near/defending from an objective

[quasi cairn]

My point is, if you're going to add a nerf, you should wait to see if it does the job before deciding whether another one is necessary

[heady pine]

Imo, if oki wanted to nerf mid-range scopes, he could've just increased bullet drop, maybe reduced velocity and disable zeroing for the mid-range scopes

[quasi cairn]

I wouldn't mind that as long as the mil dots worked.

[heady pine]

(Although, I personally never used zeroing in this game)

[quasi cairn]

TBF I went a long time before I knew it was a thing. I was landing 1300m mid scope shots without it

[heady pine]

that's exactly why the mid scope nerf was needed lol

my longest kill is like 400-500 meters

[quasi cairn]

Maybe they could make it so you can only zero up to 200m and over 800m for mid scope

[heady pine]

It's hard to find distances over 250m on infantry gamemodes

[quasi cairn]

The mid scope nerf made no difference to my ability to make super long range shots. It only affected my ability to make short mid range shots

[quasi cairn]

1300m on valley infantry conquest last night

[heady pine]

infantry conquest is the large one with only transport vehicles or the small one?

[quasi cairn]

Domination is the small one

[heady pine]

Tbf, valley is way too vast even on dom, I don't even want to imagine what it's like on full size

[quasi cairn]

For a long range sniper? Arousing

[heady pine]

All I did on it was shoot down 10 snipers, die to a flanking bastard, repeat until the next map

The most boring 40 to 4 gane in my life

never played valley again

[cobalt gazelle]

here's a thought
what would you do if L96 had like 300 light armor damage and was able to three hit kill humvees?

[past snow]

Can you please stop trying to turn bolt actions into glorified gadgets?

[quasi cairn]

Probably shoot Humvees I guess. But I feel that's not really the point of snipers

[heady pine]

RPG-7 is the best bolt-action sniper rifle as of now

[past snow]

hey at least it doesn't have glint on top of bullet trails

[heady pine]

we are way below glorified gadgets now

[past snow]

if only oki played with bolt action rifles

[heady pine]

he would probably outright delete them immediately if he did play them before the nerfs

[cobalt gazelle]

thats kind if what they are
a bolt action is accurate and relatively lightweight for a given caliber
but uh
7,62NATO is 7,62 NATO

besides that I want to be able to shoot out engine blocks with the L96 and M200.

[past snow]

but you also want snipers to use dmrs instead

[heady pine]

L96 is .338 Lapua Magnum I believe

[hearty shoal]

i mean with how much we dox ourselves by shooting there is zero reason for every sniper not to one tap exo

[past snow]

which is just a huge fuck you to people who enjoy sniping

[past snow]

ngl as a person who defended exo's one shot immunity, at this point I'd say it can go

[heady pine]

I enjoy aggressive recon, it's completely dead now with the trails

shit was busted, but still

[hearty shoal]

it wasnt busted it was as strong as it needed to be

you can see that now that it isnt at that level

[quasi cairn]

Not any more you don't

[cobalt gazelle]

kinda? 's complicated
id love for there to be more cohesion and squads to stay relatively together
I'd love for there to be less recon-parked-on-the-back-of-the-map whose only interactions are:
[] kill someone at range
[] get counter sniped
[] get ambushed
[] get used as budget spawn beacon because the squad got zapped

[past snow]

you can't have squads that stick together when recon's movespeed just makes everyone leave them in the dust

and classes being better at different ranges is what gives them their identity in the first place

you can still play as a team with your recon at the back

[hearty shoal]

also 200-300m out giving overwatch to your squad IS relatively together but that changes what that means depending on the map

[past snow]

your squad can y'know form a frontline and defend you

[heady pine]

I had 5+ kd games on average, 10+ if mostly counter-sniping braindead roof-dwellers, this isn't balanced

[hearty shoal]

kd is a meaningless stat

[heady pine]

not for a sniper

[hearty shoal]

also if they are braindead roof dwellers they deserve to die

the skilled player won that is how it is supposed to be

[cobalt gazelle]

yeah that's kinda fair
my thought was having someone lagging by like a couple buildings or something repositioning with the squad
but on shipwreck that's... basically the whole map lmao

[heady pine]

but they are the best source of exp in the game

[hearty shoal]

not even kind of true

repairing a black hawk is the best

then playing med

[heady pine]

*on infantry gamemodes

[nocturne smelt]

God it's the worst map yet always wins the vote

[hearty shoal]

recon is the WORST exp/hr in the game by far

[quasi cairn]

Got 26:0 last night sniping an entirely brain dead squad on top of a turbine on valley. They just kept respawning on the turbine

[nocturne smelt]

+1 to this

[cobalt gazelle]

id argue that this only really matters on super open points
in moet scenarios you have a firefight, 30s, firefight, and recon can just not reposition because they're still in optimum range because the rate of advance is so slow.

[nocturne smelt]

This

[quasi cairn]

I know people will say thats because snipers are OP but it's not. It's because they squad made no attempt to move, hide or even look for me

[past snow]

at this point I think you and I play different games my guy

[cobalt gazelle]

holy cow lmao

[nocturne smelt]

Not post repair points nerf

[heady pine]

I've had 51:1 on old district rush, had to respawn to fall back, the map had at least 3 uncounterable spots on it, albeit I did shoot down regular folks

[past snow]

it was just an IQ test and they failed 💀

[quasi cairn]

I couldn't believe it. Usually people take the hint and leave the top of the turbine after a few deaths but these guys just kept spawning and kept sitting there stationary without any cover

[nocturne smelt]

My friend got a 70 kill game the other night just repeatedly sniping a sniper squad

[quasi cairn]

Nice

[quasi cairn]

This is what people ignore when they say snipers are OP is that most big sniper kill streaks come from good snipers killing bad snipers

[heady pine]

those sniper squads are hilariously bad

[quasi cairn]

You almost feel like telling them to move somewhere else in chat

[cobalt gazelle]

It's Free Real Estate

[nocturne smelt]

We were sniping together and the whole game I was like "there are so many people on this objective help me shoot them" "no dude I'm just farming this sniper squad"

[cobalt gazelle]

on an unrelated note:
R700 makes me feel like I'm playing the game better because it sounds better.

[quasi cairn]

The noise is sexy but don't let Oki know he'll probably remove it to remove any fun for snipers

[heady pine]

I once 1v5ed them for 15 minutes straight, while standing out in the open on the hotel roof while they were running down in 5 different spots at the port area (forgot how the map is called), that was before the q/e spam nerf. 35:6 if I remember correctly.

[cobalt gazelle]

hmmmm

[quasi cairn]

Because people think that sniping just involves climbing to the nearest high point and shooting rather than picking the less obvious spots and trying to work out where other snipers would go

[cobalt gazelle]

what's the current guiding philosophy of DMRs vs bolt rifles, at least in theory?

like, shitposts aside?

[heady pine]

try to counter-snipe with a 1x sight by peaking from behind cover, change positions constantly or wait for a rollback and use dmrs

[cobalt gazelle]

not their ingame
has oki ever given an idea of what he wants there to be?

[heady pine]

I have no idea what aspect of bolt-actions he wants to nerf, cqc, aggressive counter-sniping, or camping at spawn

right now he nerfed all of those

[cobalt gazelle]

Lovely.

[heady pine]

maybe he would at least put a mininum travel distance for bullet trail to appear

[nocturne smelt]

I can tell you

He dislikes the feeling of getting sniped in the head as an infantry from a sniper you had no idea about

Because it feels, especially to an average or worse player, like there wasn't any counter play to that

Which is frustrating

[heady pine]

right now it's impossible even if you snipe from 30 meters away

[cobalt gazelle]

Okay, well...
A bolt action is accurate, powerful, and long range.
The platonic ideal of a sniper is basically just the hidden death
buuuuut playing against 30 simo hayhas is kind of unfun.

But also being basically helpless against someone as the long range class using a long range weapon...
kinda sucks?

[cobalt gazelle]

That I feel like would sort of incentivize getting closer to avoid the trail, though.

[hearty shoal]

but the counterplay was always go kill them now that you know that they are there?

the greater issue is sniping behind safezones

where you cant be found and punished

[nocturne smelt]

I mean that's not the real counter play

The counter play is to check your angles

[heady pine]

and that's a good thing, the closer the sniper, the less advantage he has

[nocturne smelt]

If one of those angles has a sniper 200+m away then go a different way or run unpredictably or run in a big enough group that the sniper can't kill you all

[heady pine]

the whole point of a sniper is safely applying pressure and counter-sniping

not too safely tho

[cobalt gazelle]

Bolt action rifles:
[] Glint only happens maybe in very limited circumstances? Like, to kill someone with accuracy, you need to open the killflash and glint to everyone in the viewcone, but that gives you command of when you gkint and a good shooter will minimize their glint time, I guess.
pick your moment.

[] Maybe at like 200 meters from the sniper the trail starts up, but takes another 100 meters to go from translucent to full brightness?

[] Bullets crack really loudly for everyone near a sniper bullet's impact point. lets you know you're being shot at but not from where.

[cobalt gazelle]

that's fair
buuuuut
dmr.

if you're gonna sit in the 200-300m rangeband..

[hearty shoal]

^ snipers already had it bad in that bracket is is

[heady pine]

that's long-range already, at least on the smaller gamemodes

[cobalt gazelle]

also true

some of thr maps kinda just prefer some guns over others

[heady pine]

my average kill distance on recon is like 80-100 m

basically sniping down enemy backlines, window and roof-dwellers and snipers

and flankers

[quasi cairn]

It's only an issue at short to med range. If you get sniped further than that it's really your own fault as moving shots further than that after incredibly hard

[heady pine]

So the problem is death out-of-nowhere

[quasi cairn]

If you stand still for long periods outside of cover, expect to die that's not an issue

[heady pine]

Instead of telegraphing sniper's position to the entire's enemy team, it would be better to make first-shot hits way harder

[quasi cairn]

Bullet trails shouldn't extend past the scope glint range

[heady pine]

maybe just make them work exactly the same as mid-scopes' glint

[quasi cairn]

Also scope glint should have a max diameter as well as a view angle

[heady pine]

the bullet trail is invisible until the bullet has travelled 200 meters, then it gains opacity and finally disappears past 800 meters

[quasi cairn]

That would be fine with me

I mean id prefer it didn't exist at all

[heady pine]

same

better to just simply nerf bullet drop and velocity

[quasi cairn]

Velocity maybe, but that really is only an issue for long range sniping . The big complaint is to do with short to mid range sniping

[heady pine]

well yeah, and the biggest problem is just how easy it is to land a first-shot headshot on a running target if said target isn't expecitng it

[quasi cairn]

Could always make helmets better

[heady pine]

bad idea

why use bolt-action at all, if dmrs 2-shot head too but with better firerate

[hearty shoal]

is that actually a problem? it just seems like punishing a weapon for performing as it is intended to do just tapping space every once in a while makes you much harder to headshot as is

[heady pine]

jumping while running is expecting sniper fire

[quasi cairn]

Yeah id love to see the stats but I feel like it's not nearly as much of an issue as people like to make it

[hearty shoal]

it really does feel to me like treating something as a problem when its not making everything around it much worse than it needs to be

[heady pine]

then what exactly is the problem with short range sniping compared to long range, if not this

[hearty shoal]

first define short range

[heady pine]

<300 meters I guess

past this you can't realistically mow down running targets

[hearty shoal]

even when there was no medium range glint i saw no problems with it

dmrs existed and you could be flanked

25-100m you can just get beamed by an AR pretty easily

[quasi cairn]

Yeah it still took some skill to make moving shots

[hearty shoal]

to me it always felt like being rewarded for as one of the 2 slowest classes setting up and finding a nice angle

as a support if you set up in an area built up your fort and then were punished by having for instance barrel heat to manage it would feel awful

if assaults were punished for flanking by having tracers too it would be just as damaging as it is to recons

[heady pine]

especially when you will die the moment you peak out of it if the enemy snipers are even mildly competent

[heady pine]

that is, if you use it as something more than a closed off spawn point

[quasi cairn]

Then you picked a bad position to set up in. Snipers pick their spots to limit the angles that people can shoot them from. Why should it be different for other classes that have to set up in a position. Sniping support gunners is counter to support emplacements. Most maps have plenty of roads and buildings that limit the lines of sight to pretty close range

[heady pine]

close range enough to be sniper proof is way past the point where it would be effective

[nocturne smelt]

It's not about range it's about angles

[quasi cairn]

Yep. Pick a spot where you're protected from incoming fire on all but the angles you can shoot on.

[hearty shoal]

supports place is to fortify inside of objectives but that was sadly taken out but thats another issue entirely

[heady pine]

past 50 meters a good sniper can make it impossible to peak out unless someone else flanks him

[nocturne smelt]

It's more or less fixed

Not ideal but most of the time I can build where I want in objectives

Most of the time

[hearty shoal]

i mean DMR do the exact same thing with a lot more reliability do not punish players for doing well

[nocturne smelt]

Then you're set up in a bad angle

[quasi cairn]

The sniper is 50m away. Assaults can cover that distance in 5-10 seconds go flank him. Snipers do badly at close range

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah 50m is way too close

[heady pine]

unless you set it up in an empty tube, I don't know how you can prevent that

as a sniper that is

[quasi cairn]

Build sandbags

[nocturne smelt]

Wall in the direction of the sniper

You set up in a tube as a sniper??

Does tube mean subway in this case

[heady pine]

as that sniper, I don't know how someone can build a shooting position without it being easily suppressed by me

[quasi cairn]

Build sandbags between you and them. Stay behind sandbags. Shoot from behind sandbags

[heady pine]

die every time you peak out

[quasi cairn]

Send squadmates to kill you

[quasi cairn]

No need to peek out if you position the sandbags right

If they're trying to counter your sniping with their lmg then of course they're going to die

But if they're just trying to set up a kill zone without you sniping them from the side then there's no need to peek out

[heady pine]

well, that's not a fortified shooting position then, that's just a secure spawnpoint

[quasi cairn]

How is it not a fortified shooting position

You build sandbags on the sides you want to protect and shoot out of the other sides

If you want 360 visibility you're vulnerable from 360°

[heady pine]

you want to shoot at the enemy, you need to peak in that direction, meaning you are susceptible to snipers in that angle

unless it's a chokepoint in a corridor, in which case, you aren't suppresing enemy offensively, but defensively instead

ie the tube situation

[quasi cairn]

Suppression is suppression. It's up to the rest of your team to make it offensive

[heady pine]

I was talking about offensive fortifications, where your goal is to suppress enemy to let your teammates advance, not to prevent enemy from advancing

[nocturne smelt]

You can still do that with a barricade in the angle of the sniper

[quasi cairn]

Plus there are friendly recons too for taking out enemy snipers

[heady pine]

why would you need a fort if your recons can already suppress that angle that much

[quasi cairn]

Because you need to cover your flanks

I feel we're going round in circles here

[atomic hill]

I agree the trail should definitely start 50-200m away, especially with a suppressor. I also think the aim down time for extended mag snipers (except m200) should be reduced. L96 for E.g should be +.06 instead of +.09 I just got an 87 kill recon game with med l96, but they should tweak some things to compensate.

[quasi cairn]

Bet most of those kills were other snipers though

[hearty shoal]

i mean the general move speed of snipers should be upped if we're expected to rotate after every shot

[nocturne smelt]

Pretty much sums up why snipers are getting nerfed so much tho

[quasi cairn]

Because people don't understand that they need to build sandbags to protect their flanks?

[atomic hill]

Totally wrong.

[quasi cairn]

I didn't mean that as a criticism btw

[gleaming skiff]

I thought using a suppressor, but still having a tracer, was a bit odd. Having a trail with subsonic ammo is even more strange. I get why it's there but think it should be much harder to see or have a shorter duration with a suppressor equipped but hit velocity fairly hard to match or give it more damage drop off over distance.

It would promote closer engagements with the bolt actions and be useful with the suppresser in the first place.

[quasi cairn]

TBF if we're going for realism, using a tracer round in your sniper rifle is a little odd anyway

[gleaming skiff]

For sure, but I think it was a stopgap toward the vapor trail. I like the trail more, to be honest.

It would be sooooo cool if the trail was more visible and tapered off over time from the point of origin.

[quasi cairn]

You're being sarcastic, right?

[gleaming skiff]

I mean, if there's going to be a trail, at least have some fun with it.

[quasi cairn]

Rainbow colours

[gleaming skiff]

Look at my profile picture. You know I would love it. XD But nah, I mean just some particle dissipation to help sell the effect.

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah

Because they need a giant line saying "sniper bullets coming from this direction" to understand they should protect that direction

[quasi cairn]

It's crazy. I mean who doesn't just assume they can lay down in the open without people shooting them in the side

[strong epoch]

This is what I've been saying for ages. Either snipers are slow and cumbersome with low RoF, but can stay hidden due to not having glint or trails or whatever, OR snipers are fast and can outrun any other class, at the cost of ousting their position with every shot. BBR has, generally, been the former up until now. Its far too late to try to change the entire class to the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, especially since its all coming without the runspeed buff the class would need to actually be able to achieve this sort of playstyle.

[balmy cargo]

Alright imma login and see how bad it is

[hearty shoal]

💀

[balmy cargo]

lmfao

[hearty shoal]

lol what do you think

[balmy cargo]

So

The guy who said you're a walking lighthouse is absolutely correct

just shooting your gun means you die

Its like...

1. Land a shot - enemy knows where you are based on the damage indicator.
2. Miss a shot - enemy knows where you are because now the snipers are Quake railguns
3. Simply aim - enemy knows where you are now because you glint

4. Kill someone - They get to know where you are as a reward for dying

How is this good design again?

[coarse umbra]

Happens if you put up a game programmer to do the game design

[strong epoch]

i never thought id be agreeing with kim jong-un, but here i am

[hearty shoal]

i mean with how present snipers are now visually no reason not to have them body shot 1 tap at any range amiright

[balmy cargo]

You basically traded all the fun of playing sniper for the most boring mechanic of all time - spotting people

I just dont get it

who actually enjoys that

[true copper]

I feel like apart from Map hugging 600m+ sniping, there is not a reason at all to play any sniper atm, like with the m110 u dont need to go for the head or compensate for bullet drop in most cases, just aim center mass.U can 2 hit people nearly without them reacting, u can use a suppressor, u dont have a glint on medium scopes, you dont have bullet trails, you can play Assault for better reload and ammo box (if you want), which offers more bandages, ammo and the option with runnning the short mag. U dont need to cycle shots, if u miss so what you have still atleast 7 shots more in the mag. You get better armor as Assault. I tryed it today, for me there is no reason anymore to play sniper over DMR or even play recon, atleast for me

[true copper]

dont get the change either, i found BBR to be one of the Games where Sniping was funand you were some what useful , but not to impactful/op compared to other classes(cough medic). for me personally the only problem with recons/snipers was that there were teams with like 30 % map border hugging snipers that were completly useless ( like 15/11 after a 30 min Game), that did not contribute to your team, the servers with sniper limit (one per squad e.g.) were the ones i enjoyed the most to play as a sniper and against snipers

[strong epoch]

oki is just dead set on making a game where everyone has the exact same playstyle, I guess. BBR went from one of the best sniper experiences in FPS to one of the worst in, what, two weeks? Its a complete joke, and Oki clearly has zero intention of listening to the objections of the entire group of people he's putting up to execution. Actually, sounds kinda like tyranny when I phrase it like that...

[true copper]

ye i feel the same, when he doesnt like snipers, which i can somewhat understand why putting it in in the first place, compared to gutting it half a year after release to the public, just to have a part of the community angry

[stone skiff]

Please dont fall into listenig to a loud vocal minority of people convincing you to nerf sniping even more, sniping the way it was was the core of this game, it even was in your steam tags

[quasi cairn]

too late

[stone skiff]

Changes like that are harming the game, casuals dont care because these arent fun mechanics just balancing ones and hardcore players dislike them to the point of leaving the game but ok

so yeah

cringe

[quasi cairn]

Yep I'm going to go play squad or insurgency as soon as they're back on sale

[steady mist]

sniping so dead that only half my lobby is recons :(((

[quasi cairn]

are you in a recon only server or something or like a 12 player server

[steady mist]

a 127v127 server ty very much

[quasi cairn]

because i've been in 3 servers tonight all with very small recon pops

I didn't realise 50% of 256 was 13

or 254 even

[steady mist]

Fine, I'll count them individually

[quasi cairn]

You need to count them individually to know whether 50% of your server is the same class?

[steady mist]

there's only 68 recons in my 254 person server

so sorry, it's only 25%

I mean 25% that's basically the whole class wiped out right

[quasi cairn]

there are 5 classes, i'd expect each class to be somewhere between 15 and 25% pop all things considered

[steady mist]

This doesn't help your case

If anything you're suggesting that the game has helped to normalize a discrepancy, or there wasn't a problematic change anyways

[quasi cairn]

It's early days, and your server is an anomily. Watch those numbers drop

[steady mist]

I'm sure

[quasi cairn]

STRAWMAN ALERT

[steady mist]

the strawman of "sniping is dead" while the class balance is in your own words in expected ranges, if anything on the high end of your expected ranges

[quasi cairn]

Not really Your sample size is tiny and i've been on 3 servers tonight that support my claim that sniping is dying. The last 3 servers i was on had 10, 8 and 13 snipers respectively

Consideing that's on the release date of game changing sniper updates That seems like sniping might be dying

[steady mist]

fuck it, i've got time, time to server hop

let's do a sample size of 10 to start

[quasi cairn]

You'll need a comparative sample for every day this week

[steady mist]

sure

tensa town, 51 recons

Valley, 68 recons

[nocturne smelt]

Invasion 254?

Just wondering, I think conq has fewer recons

[steady mist]

Tensa town #2, 40 recons

so we got a high, medium, low

[quasi cairn]

It's alsmost as if patch day isn't a balanced sample

[steady mist]

you were whining since the last change that was supposed to kill snipers

Outskirts, 61 recons

[quasi cairn]

Again patch day

[steady mist]

I mean really, wasn't medium scope glint already making you leave?

[quasi cairn]

No it just made me sit back in spawn and snipe long range

[steady mist]

Oh well

Sounds like recon didn't die

Not even for you

[quasi cairn]

Well My recon playtime last week dropped from like 80% to about 15% so it kinda did

[steady mist]

Congrats on no longer being a slave to the meta I'm very proud of u

[vagrant thistle]

no shit theirs more recons on the day of the update that changed recons

that number means nothing

[steady mist]

numbers never mean anything

every time numbers get brough up there's ooohhhhh so many factors that invalidate them, but how you feel is exactly what the game needs

Bootlicker? nah, oki has made some stupid changes. I'm just a hater to your pointless playstyle

the one that does nothning but proc bleed

[quasi cairn]

It might be appropriate but it was actually left in my clipboard from a tweet earlier mocking the libertarian party and their pro dictator stance

So yeah wasn't actually aimed at you

[steady mist]

coincidences are fun

[quasi cairn]

Indeed they are.

[vagrant thistle]

the glint changes are nice atleast

long range scopes have a purpose

[steady mist]

anyways, I'm gonna go back to playing the game since my enjoyment went up at the cost of yours 🗿
-formally, a true hater

[quasi cairn]

"My fun comes at the expense of everyone else's"

[vagrant thistle]

the sound spread thing did nothing cause its not directional

ig it adds to the immersion

but like

[quasi cairn]

No it's completely pointless. Now there's just loud bangs every now and then in case you didn't realise that somewhere on the map there was at least 1 sniper

[steady mist]

hey guess who that saying fits when we're talking about 20% of classes vs 80%

[quasi cairn]

Literally any class by your logic

[vagrant thistle]

yeah thats what i was saying

[steady mist]

yup, same case as the people who're bothered by medic losing bandages

[quasi cairn]

but unlike you my enjoyment doesn't depend on an entire element of gameplay being removed

[vagrant thistle]

the smoke trails arent that bad but they last too long imo

[quasi cairn]

I don't even play medic but that did suck

[vagrant thistle]

it should be 1 second at the most

so only people being shot at can see it

currently you can just follow the end of the trail cause its so fucking long

[quasi cairn]

Did i just blow your mind for supporting the enjoyment of people who play classes other than my own?

[vagrant thistle]

when did medic lose bandages?

[balmy cargo]

Just remember our issue is with sniper rifles not the recon class. DMRs are still good.

[steady mist]

you're the one asking to maintain status quo, same with half this discord oddly enough

[vagrant thistle]

bcuz people like sniping and they want it to be more useful

[steady mist]

the fact that everyone can bandage themselves at the same speed

[vagrant thistle]

that was needed for self heal

no reason for other classes to revive at same speed as medic tho

[steady mist]

they don't

[vagrant thistle]

they do

[steady mist]

but I get it, if you're not reviving people you wouldn't notice

[vagrant thistle]

i do revive people

assault and other classes revive same speed as medic

[steady mist]

then you'd notice medic still revives faster

test it]

take a vid

come back to me

[vagrant thistle]

its supposed to be 2x faster

its not

the patch notes said that bandage speed buff was only for self healing

but very clearly revive speed was increased

for other classses

while leaving medic the same

[steady mist]

I just tested it myself

medic is still faster lol

so much stuff killing the game it's crazy

wonder what's getting blamed next

[vagrant thistle]

the skin system

[steady mist]

that'll be fun

I was gonna say the UI

[vagrant thistle]

they did change ui this update tho

or atleast the font

which is kinda ui

[hearty crow]

people that say sniper is op usually are 1 of 2 things
1 never played sniper and have no idea how hard it is to hit someone with how fast people can move in this game and how twitchy people are
2 are salty that they can't camp a window or rooftop or hold a stationary defensive position without being at risk of being 1 tapped

[void hornet]

The sniper trail change is encouraging players to stay WAY the fuck away from engagements, which is the exact kind of sniper play impedes forward movement in the game (capturing / defending points). What is Oki on with this one.

[past snow]

Even oki doesn't know what the fuck he's cooking at this point

but one thing's for sure

bro cannot cook for shit

[somber flint]

The changes to sound and bullet trails, while in theory make snipers easier to counter, make them much more of a psychological weapon, and make them far more 'terrifying'.

More of a meme suggestion, but would be pretty cool to see. Some sort of dummy head equipment to bait snipers into firing.

[hearty crow]

i mean we already have fake scope glint

also that is kind of the purpose of snipers is to be a psychological weapon. the threat of a sniper often more dangerous the the actual sniper

its why the sniper class tends to be complained about the most cause no other class in a game usually scares the piss out of someone like snipers can.

[quasi cairn]

I'm not sure i'd call anything in BBR terrifying 😛

[hearty crow]

lol well graphics aside :v

[quasi cairn]

aaaah voxels

[hearty crow]

for example if someone sticks his head out of window and gets gundowned by a MG from a support class his teammates might try and peek to fight the guy
but if the guy was brained by a sniper and he tells his teammates they would most likely not dare go anywhere near that window until they are sure the sniper is gone

[quasi cairn]

Imagine thinking there's any squad play left in this game. In both cases 99% of the time his squadmates would be scattered across the map and would not give a shit about his unfortunate demise 😛

[hearty crow]

i mean if other people were in the room and the guy just so happened to have a mike to inform them why he died

[hearty crow]

will not lie am part of that problem

also don't have a mike so yeah

[quasi cairn]

I try to stick close to my squad if i'm not playing recon but it's not usually easy

[hearty crow]

i'm either out on butt fook nowhere hunting snipers or playing exterminator in our teams own backlines making sure rats don't take our back command post.

i hate being on the frontlines

[quasi cairn]

I don't mind front lines too much CQB is fun. But nothing brings me zen relaxation like long range counter sniper gameplay

[hearty crow]

sniping used to be my comfort fall back if i felt like chilling, or if i hate the map and/or find cqcing a pain in the arse i'd just do sniping on it for less stress, but that sure isn't the case any more thanks to med scope glint. i had 2 places i could just chill and not die once since i started playing when the game first went early accuses. sure i'd only get like 9 12 maybe 24 kills if i was super lucky, but sure beat banging my head against a wall dying over and over

and now i've died like 4 times in both locations thanks to med scope glint

[quasi cairn]

I've found the only way med scope glint is workable is if you sit way back in the safe zone and only go for the real long shots

[hearty crow]

yup

which is funny

cause people complain about snipers just sitting back in the safe zone and now they literally just strong armed most snipers into having to do just that cause they don't think they have a shot outside of the safe zone

[quasi cairn]

Yeah, it really wasn't a well thought through update

Snipers don't want to have to run 300m every time they take a shot

[hearty crow]

i could probably live with the sniper bullet sound being different to other bullets. kind of needed as times i couldn't tell if a sniper was gunning for me or just a random stray bullet from a gun fight. also the trails would make me have to just actually have to consider who to shoot first when attacking groups of people. picking of those that would be less likely to be noticed first
but the entire map knowing when i take a shot? like why
and why even use a med scope if it glints like long scope. only people uneffected are aggressive snipers, though i guess the bullet trail really sucks for them

also i have a background playing Halo so kind of used to bullet trails on snipers

[quasi cairn]

TBF i don't have much of a problem with the whole map knowing if i take a shot. It's not directional so all it tells them is that at some place on the map a sniper has taken a shot. Which is almost useless to them. I would like to better sniper bullet sounds so as you say it's possible to know if someone is actually gunning for you or if it's just rounds going overhead

[hearty crow]

i guess my "like why" for the whole map knowing i'm taking a shot is it will get really annoying for when even say 8 snipers are just going ham shooting. just gonna hear gun shot after gun shot and there are ususally way more then 8 snipers on maps

for the lols i might just run around near the enemies side of the map firing randomly into the air to give everyone panic attacks thinking they are getting shot at over and over

[quasi cairn]

Yeah it is a bit pointless

[frozen glen]

Trails ? Glint ? What is this rookie shit ?? They need to make a LED sign in the sky that follow the sniping player with a fat ass blinking arrow with the words "HE IS HERE" and the LED would blind the shit out of the sniper for being too close to it. Oh and blinking minimap marker also of course. I mean the class is still somewhat barely playable it's unacceptable please dev add these !!!

[hearty crow]

please don't give them ideas

i'd add a laughing emote under that but at this point in time i'd believe they'd do it

[quasi cairn]

Every round a sniper fires now kills the sniper and also 5 other random recon players on your team

[lapis lance]

jesus christ just remove the sniper rifles and the role as well their are pointless now.

[quasi cairn]

Yep

[lapis lance]

i allways hated bf for the glint, like whats the point of sniping, the whole point is to be concealed, we even have ghillie ffs

[quasi cairn]

Me too. I remember when BF3 came out i was so annoyed about the glint. BF2 had great sniper gameplay and BF3 was like an arcade game

[lapis lance]

its not THAT hard to figure out where a sniper is. and there are tons of ways to hide from snipers, its called cover.

[quasi cairn]

Yeah at anything over a few hundred meters moving shots are almost impossible

Also most snipers are in the most stupidly obvious places. Like on top of the wind turbines in valley

[lapis lance]

yep they allready feelt nerfed pree patch

[quasi cairn]

Seriously who looks at a squad of guys sniping from a wind turbine, exposed to incoming fire from 360 degrees and thinks those guys are too powerful

[lapis lance]

xactly, its so obvious.

[quasi cairn]

I mean it's great for me because they're basically free kills

but those kind of players make up a lot of the recon class and it's not like they're very good

[lapis lance]

what is the argument for nerfing sniper in fort place? are people annoyed when they get shot from sniper but not machine gun ?

i mean remove 40x and 20 x and u wont have people shooting from other side of map, its like they want sniper to be op and nerfed at same time

[quasi cairn]

I think the argument is that no one does any squadplay really so you can't get your squadmates to coutner sniper fire. but that seems like a problem with squad play not snipers

[lapis lance]

if u kill enemys u kinda fill a function and sniper teams are supposed to be small

[quasi cairn]

The arguments against snipers are contradictory. one group of people says we do nothing and contribute nothing and the other says we're too powerful and kill everyone all the time.

[lapis lance]

so maybe squads shuld be like irl more , u chose a squad based on ur role and u play that role whole game. like rifle squad, sniper squad, etc i think arma had it like that on some servers,

[boreal shale]

For being so gung ho about milsim, Oki really does not pull much from actual milsims.

Even Arma servers will have some limitations on the number of classes in a squad.

Granted the playstyle and map design does not lend itself to a milsim playstyle.

The casual player does not want to run around like a spaz constantly and that is the playstyle BBR is nurturing. If I want to relax and have more chill fun, I will play recon. The recon changes push the more casual playstyle out, and by association the causal players as well.

[lapis lance]

well yes, i dont even know what the hell their aiming for

the potential is so close i just dont understand why they go the other way

i mean nothing else seems cassual

[amber pelican]

Since all sniper rifles now leave the godawful 3 second long trail showing exactly where you are. i no longer have a reason to play the class. I play with silencer on all guns where i have it unlocked because i like to see if i can flank and get kills from odd angles. Playing stealthy and getting ambush kills which is why i played the class in the first place is now gone. If i want to play stealthy from 200-500 meters i am much better of with drms now and since recon is the absolute worst drm class in the game i no longer have a single reason that fits my playstyle(aka not zoom zoom kids high on 1000 mg of pure coffeine) to pick the recon class.(i see formatting in discord is still absolute trash, since you cant even use enter properly)

[swift quest]

The latest sniper nerf has made the class redundant. The scope glint nerf was bad enough but bullet trails too? The purpose of a sniper is to be hidden and provide supporting fire.
Now not only can you not one shot most players to the head because of helmets but you also have a bright light that highlights you whenever you ads AND a massive line that leads directly back to you.
What's the purpose of the class at this point? better to play dmr on a different class. You have more utility and fewer drawbacks.
Snipers are never a problem for me when playing other classes but were a fun change of pace to play now they're really not. You're spot is known the second you make your first shot from the other end of the map.

[vital crown]

Sniper changes are good, and as seen by the reactions to the re-work, the majority of players are in favor of it while a loud minority are against.

One suggestion is to either remove the trail on exclusively the MSR to give it purpose and/or to make it much more feint on suppressors.

This is offtopic, but all suppressors should remove the glow effect of bullets, or make it black to hamper bullet visibility. This would indirectly buff snipers with supressors even with the trail.

[quasi cairn]

"Anyone who disagrees with me is a loud minority"

[vital crown]

#dev-wip message

433 vs 151

A minority and a loud one at that.

[torpid trout]

It feels like snipers are being balanced around the extremely small percentile of people doing disgusting things with them after thousands of hours of practice and not the majority of people messing around with the class. Trails are super unnecessary

[vital crown]

Kind of like how LB and SMGs were balanced.

It is what it is.

[quasi cairn]

Oh you mean the survey that was done before the change went live? Well that sounds like meaningful data

[swift quest]

The reason for that is the vast majority don't snipe. They also cannot snipe, most players lack the skill to. Sniping is not easy. If it were everyone would do it. Sniping is all about getting an off angle and harassing players from somewhere they don't expect. That is no longer possible. Of course people that just want to run into a meat grinder over and over don't want snipers. This is true in all games that contain snipers.
Most snipers I come up against can't hit a barn door anyway.

[torpid trout]

LB were being monopolized by an outsize cabal of psycho losers relative to the overall size of the playerbase, in such a way that they created a negative experience for thousands of other people. If the data shows top tier snipers doing the same thing, I'll relent. Nothing about my play experience indicates parity there, though

[swift quest]

Also yeah 500 votes in a game with thousands of active players pertaining to a future update in a discord that most players don't even know exists is not a good way to determine if a change is warranted.

[quasi cairn]

LB?

[torpid trout]

Little Bird

[quasi cairn]

Oh

Yeah

[vital crown]

It's funny, that's what was said about so many other aspects of this game before they were nerfed to the ground, and in your case, you can still be just as effective as you were before. You just can no longer get kills handed to you on a silver platter because your poor victims are now aware of your presence. But if you can aim and lead your shots, you're still fine. The same is not true for SMGs, LBs, or even Mines.

[vital crown]

It's a sample size; it's not a perfect 1:1 ratio to the true population, but it is an indication.

[quasi cairn]

"Your poor victims" Get a fucking load of this guy. Saviour of the oppressed

https://tenor.com/view/laugh-mock-lol-hysterical-rofl-gif-5078082

[vital crown]

You seem upset.

[quasi cairn]

Nah, your post really tickled me

[swift quest]

No you really really can't. What separated a good sniper from the rest was being able to peak shot and so remain undetected for longer. Your first shot irrespective of where you are makes that now impossible.

[vital crown]

Anyways, I came here to give my two cents, not to needlessly argue with emotional players. All I can say is: Welcome to BattleBit where the game you paid for and the game you got are two very different things.

[quasi cairn]

"Won't someone please think of the poor innocent victims of evil snipers!!!"

[quasi cairn]

Yeah we wouldn't want to keep you from your important business of healing the sick and solving world hunger

[torpid trout]

Save em and buy a couple penny stocks instead, maybe you'll get a dividend

[vital crown]

Sure.

[quasi cairn]

Donate those 2 cents to the poor victims of sniper war crimes

[vital crown]

Well, have fun!

[swift quest]

I'm not emotional about it at all tbh. Purely realistic. I can be in the top 10 of any lobby I join if I really want it. I am someone that has far more skill than most people with numerous 100+ kill games and 100k+ point games. Snipers were not a problem and have now been nerfed into reduncy. A dmr is now the better pick in every scenario.

[torpid trout]

The dmrs now being way more comfortable at most engagement ranges is pretty funny

[swift quest]

It's a pity imo. Dmrs should be the pick for people that lack the skill to use snipers. Easier kills but lower ttk potential. Now that they can 1 tap a recon to the head and the bolties can't one tap other classes half the time there really isn't much point in running the snipers. The scenarios where you can 1 tap someone with one and not the other are so few and far between you might as well take the better rof and massively larger ammo.

[quasi cairn]

DMRs can 1 tap other recons now?

I was not aware of this

[swift quest]

yup. Assuming you're going with the no helmet option so you can ads quickly.

[trail laurel]

rip close range sniping shoot one bullet and the intire team knows exactly where you are :)

[quasi cairn]

Does recon even have an armoured helmet? I thought they didn't

[swift quest]

They can't at extreme ranges but can to a few hundred metres. Yes recon have the light helmet option.

12 whole hp. Yuo will be saved from the first dmr headshot and nothing afterward.

recon were already in a pretty bad place after the copeglint nerf. Definitely the weakest class from any objective standpoint but now they're just pointless.

correction: I was wrong dmrs cannot 1 shot to the head. I was wrong. outside of exactly headshots on other recons however, they are just better especially as they don't have a bullet trail.

[balmy cargo]

Estimated 3 million copies sold
A small discord poll of 600 people
🤔

I also find it hilarious you call people emotional when everyone calls you out. GG no re.

[nocturne smelt]

Here comes the drama

[vital crown]

The idea that the majority of players do not enjoy fighting snipers is not a controversial one; it's only natural that they want nerfs to follow suit. I suggest you pay attention to ongoing discussion on the roles, balance, and impacts of snipers that has existed since their introduction in the FPS genre. Then I suggest you take a statistics course. The belief that the majority of players enjoy fighting snipers or that they do not want them to be nerfed is one grounded in delusion.

[nocturne smelt]

I'm personally looking forward to trying the update tonight, didn't get a chance to yesterday

[vital crown]

Long range scopes got buffed, so I look forward to using that and seeing how it goes.

[nocturne smelt]

You do have a point that these channels are only people who play recon and don't want it nerfed

[vital crown]

While that may be true, I think that generally speaking, those that speak up are entirely discontent with an aspect of the current state of the game.

Snipers were annoying, but many issues that are associated with them were curbed by balance or are attached to other problematic issues of the game.

There's also a good part of the annoyance that players have come to accept because snipers are like that in every game, and decades of bad balance has solidified that as part of the expectation.

[balmy cargo]

There you go belittling everyone you come across. It's sad you are suggesting people to take stats courses when you want to use a sample size of 500 on this discord. Discord polls are not Gallup polls lmfao.

Nobody here is saying people enjoy fighting snipers. Every single player wants whatever they don't like to be nerfed, snipers included. I'm specifically saying that the way it was nerfed is not the move and basically kills any enjoyment of it.

[vital crown]

I wouldn't say they were nerfed as much as being re-worked.

[desert bison]

Speaking of "snipers are like that in every game", milsim mode might fix it. In Arma 3, I don't remember snipers being too much of a problem. Because all of the normal guns are so deadly, snipers have to sit a kilometer away or else they'll just get shot just as easily as everyone else. This makes snipers not that much of a problem.

[vital crown]

Long range is viable because the cone got reduced to your LoS.

Mid-range doesn't produce glare at small and long ranges.

[desert bison]

Snipers are only really a problem when the game is "arcade-like", and that means messing with gun balance so that everyone can have "fun"

[vital crown]

Personally, I would prefer if they reverted almost all weapon balance changes to pre-release, at least the nerfs, where everything was deadly and could kill anywhere.

Many players don't hold that same opinion, so instead, everything got nerfed.

It is what it is.

[desert bison]

I would prefer that too. In Arma, weapon choices are mostly cosmetic

[balmy cargo]

I would prefer that as well.

[vital crown]

Infinite mines countered SMG run and gun. With nothing to check that playstyle, that became too powerful and got nerfed. It also made C4 the objective choice, which people are also calling to nerf.

LBs put snipers in check too, especially the ones camping in territory, but it got a nerf to both mobility and effective damage range, so you know how it goes.

Everything goes on the chopping block. No-one has fun; everyone's jimmies are rustled.

What can you do?

[desert bison]

You can leave a negative review on steam, make a post on reddit, or continue to offer feedback and suggestions here on discord

[nocturne smelt]

The devs read at least the title of all the suggestions threads, that's the best place to get real attention

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1170727258537865367

[raw turtle]

The nerf to snipers was uncalled for and it has impacted all my friends who have bought the game and my own experience, We no longer have desire to play and are now disappointed in the game we all just purchased nerfing snipers within a month

[hearty crow]

Welcome to BattleBit where the game you paid for and the game you got are two very different things
hey jackass i was playing what i paid for, medium scopes without glint and no trails, for about 6 months until it was changed. you act like i had a choice to get this game knowing med scope glint and sniper trails were a feature rather then being shoved down my throat out of the blue

[vital crown]

Welcome to the club.

[hearty crow]

can i get a free t-shirt

and for smgs that's a cute false equivalence. even the people that abused them admitted they needed a nerf. as for mines maybe its a skill issue i can get 20+ kills on those run and gun ding dongs with mines per a game even putting them in the same 4 places over and over and they still walk on them for some reason.
and the little bird was literally defying the laws of physics. if you can find me a helicopter that could fly upside down and not crash i'd love to see it
and i brained more LBs as a sniper then they got me so they was hardly a counter for safe zone snipers. only solid counter for those was med scope counter snipers like i used to do but oh well they got rid of that

[vital crown]

Lmao

You didn't mind not getting what you paid for until it affected you personally. Hahahahaha

[sly wedge]

It was in beta (early access), things we subject to change. I’m fine with the medium scope glint (as long as it stays less than the large) and I’m fine with the sniper trails (I think they’re a great way to counter play) as long as the degree on which people can see your scope stays the way it is now. It makes sense the guy who is not directly in your line of sight can’t see you but they guy who is can. Good work honestly, you can’t make everyone happy but you can find a middle ground and people who throw fits because they didn’t get it exactly their way are exactly the kind of people that shouldn’t be listened to, especially when they bought a game in early access. Great investment so far, especially with recon drones now spotting players, It’s like every idea I have heard of to make the game better or even talked with other people about has actually been added into the game and that makes me happy because it means the devs are listening or know what it’s like to actually be on the other side.

[hearty crow]

https://tenor.com/FMKs.gif

[hearty crow]

i have more hours in medic than literally any class and found recon too intimidating to try until snipers on construction pissed me off so much i decided to fight fire with fire and found i kind of ok at it. i'd say my kills per a game was 15 average 20 if doing good. i speak for the casual that tries sniping and find it kind of fun. i used to actually compete with the sweaties in sniper duels. now the try hard annihilate me cause the changes actually help the already super good snipers more then anyone else

[vital crown]

And what word would that be? 😂

This reads like a copypasta. 🤣

[sly wedge]

I have more hours in medic, I’m pretty sure most do.

[hearty crow]

so does your mom

[vital crown]

Are you me from an alternate universe where I am a nerd that likes sniping?

[hearty crow]

nah i'm to handsome for that

[sly wedge]

I don’t see how this helps the good snipers, before I could kill 30 people before they even noticed me, still can if I keep switching locations a little, but now you can notice the guy aiming at you and actually fight him and that’s somehow a disadvantage?

[vital crown]

I see the standards of that universe are flipped too. 😂 😂 😂

[hearty crow]

i mean you are the lowest bar possible so not hard

[hearty crow]

the problem is the last part of your sentence in reverse. they notice me when i'm trying to hunt them and cut me down

[sly wedge]

It’s an equal field at that point

[hearty crow]

did you miss the part were i said i'm a causal?

[sly wedge]

You’re complaining about not having the advantage on someone that you already have the location of

Don’t use Casual as an excuse for not using your brain

[hearty crow]

i mean kind of the point of being a casual isn't it

[sly wedge]

If the game gives you an equal playing field, don’t be surprised when there are people better/worse than you

[hearty crow]

i'm not surprised

[sly wedge]

You’re upset

[hearty crow]

heck if people were worse then me they better uninstall the game

[sly wedge]

Now I’m not suprised

So you’re just getting outsniped? This isn’t feedback on the game itself, this just seems like you want a game where two sides fight against one another to be easier on the players who don’t have skill?

Hell the game gave you a robotic drone you can strap mines to, if you’re hell bent on killing one dude just kamikaze or flank him, you’ve got freedom, use it.

[hearty crow]

i mean i have no issue with a person way better then me also not having glint on med scope or trails. i've been blind sided as often if not more then i've done to others

i'd rather sniper duels be about sneaking around rather then who's better at peak a boo or who can click the glowy white dot first

its like having a game where 2 people can click a button to win so who ever does so faster wins the game. its it fair sure is it fun no

[quasi cairn]

Instead of the guy with a saviour complex who's fighting for the "Poor Victims" of the mean nasty snipers

Saved any more poor sniper victims recently?

[hearty crow]

bet he has his own go fund me for it

[quasi cairn]

He's probably crying tears for our poor victims as we speak

[hearty crow]

if you get brained by me you had it coming :v

[still flume]

undo the new changes, unarguable dogshit

[winged charm]

Been playing sniper a lot and been having a lot of fun
Maybe it’s because I used long scopes before the changes so Im not used to being able to snipe while basically invisible like before the changes, but it’s not that bad.
If you think you should be able to sit in a bush hundreds of meters away and snipe with zero way to tell where you are because there’s no glint or trail, just uninstall the game.
Never in my life have I’ve been more sure that this has less to do with a bad change and a lot more to do with players not wanting to adapt.
In short, it’s not that bad + skill issue

[still flume]

you literally unable to notice a sniper before you dead now (before he shots)
if you dont think that this is OP in such close range combat game - your aim is trash on sniper

[oblique vapor]

I'm not a sniper fan nor user but after playing for those few days with sniper trails I gotta say they should be removed. It's too easy now to spot people shooting at you.

[sonic anchor]

idk why snipers expect to shoot at 300m and expect to be uncontested, it's a sniper 500m+ is the range they should be used at

[still flume]

its so fucking funny how AFK snipers hate new trail while its literally making them invisable if they will try to play more active

also all 300m+ snipers should be instabanned and only have a server with same cringelords

[sonic anchor]

you always got dmrs for that ranged goodness under 450m

[still flume]

im playing on 100-200m now peaking corners and going back and im literally immortal now because 1. my model is too small to spray/notice for any other class 2. enemy models is too big and i just need to click heads due to access of one shot gun with huge scope

[torpid trout]

Because the closer you are to an engagement, the more active the game is for you, and for some reason people seem to like action. Weird

[sonic anchor]

tbh i'm still questioning why snipers are in this game, if you think about it they have no real place

[still flume]

logical. but only for a casual player.

[still flume]

diversity

[torpid trout]

That said, nobody expects to be uncontested, they just expect that they won't be punished for choosing the class

[still flume]

idk how you can get punished while nobody can see you now

[torpid trout]

I don't even know what game you're playing, brother

[sonic anchor]

i mean, i can definitely see the trail only being noticeable after about 200m to let aggressive sniping be a thing but it's actually kind of useful for long range (actual) sniping

[still flume]

only useless trail, and when the one reaches the enemy brain to calculate your spot, you can get in cover 20 times

[quasi cairn]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1183550335449583676

[sonic anchor]

nah man
the class has a place, the snipers themselves as well, just not in the way people want to play them, a sniper rifle doesn't have any business to do within 400m

[still flume]

only low tab lowskills playing sniper on 300m+

thats not a take, world wide statistical fact

[quasi cairn]

real chads do 2000m headshots with ironsights

[still flume]

all guns in this game is 0-50m effective, most even lesser
sniper is perfect for 100-200
else is afk bush that useless for both killing or playing objective, even useless to respawn on

guns in this game are too much downgraded in range compare to other games

[quasi cairn]

If you're going to have maps with 2000m lines of sight, you're going to have people trying to shoot 2000m.

[still flume]

dm me a vid how you spray with at least 5 guns on 50m and hit at least 80%

[still flume]

they are peaceful.

thats literally snowmans from minecraft

no one doing less kills per game than 300m+ snipers

worst mp7 player will do more kills than best 500m+ sniper

[sonic anchor]

damn man xD
chill out, some people just wanna chill for once and want some variety, already enough sweating or tactics with assault or support

[still flume]

real dangereus sniper is 200m sniper, and now they are immortal, due to that you only can react after their shot instead of before their shot, after update

[still flume]

chill players have nothing to do in balancing chats

[quasi cairn]

Sure they are. A good number of my kills have been 1500m+ and I often rock 20-30 kills