Sniper Rifles (General) - Feedback

[bleak mantle]

so what's the issue

[vital crown]

That didn't stop players from calling for nerfs and from the developers enacting them because "Oh no! A weapon can be used outside its optimal range!"

So they made these changes forgetting that other long range weapons are just as effective up close as they are far.

[bleak mantle]

The problem wasn't that they can be used outside of their intended range. They still can be. The issue is they were too good outside of their intended range.

[vital crown]

Since we are going down the route and design philosophy of cutting off the skill ceiling of weapons in place of "being used at the range they're designed for", then all weapons need to get the same treatment.

[bleak mantle]

I am not seeing how this is a bad thing lol

[vital crown]

Sniper is unreactable in CQC, and has literally infinite potential on the virtue of being a 0 TTK weapon.

[bleak mantle]

Then why doesn't literally everyone run a sniper all of the time for instant kills at all ranges? Could it possibly be that it's very difficult to do effectively and there is an inherently high risk and lack of forgiveness tied to the high reward?

[versed plover]

unless you miss the guy going a max speed while air strafing

[bleak mantle]

no, it's the children who are wrong

[sonic anchor]

literally worse deagle/rsh what are you smoking xD

[versed plover]

it sounds like you are looking at the sniper in a vacuum where no one is moving and just standing still

[sonic anchor]

srsly a sniper is a lot worse than a deagle/rsh in anything under 20m

[vital crown]

Great, I'm glad you agree.
Basically to achieve this, all weapons in the middle will have a damage profile that looks like an upside down U. Sniper's damage profile will look like the reverse SMG profile to really hammer in the idea that it's a long distance weapon for long distance engagements only.

[sonic anchor]

and even then wtf are you on about? you want only smg medics in the game? go play bbrc and leave the normies alone

[bleak mantle]

let's go back to how weapons can be used outside of their effective range, it's just difficult. if you're this freaked out about snipers just go run one yourself and dominate every lobby you're in since it's so easy and op.

[vital crown]

CQC gated by skill, not design. Something we want to move away from.

[bleak mantle]

why are you saying "we" lol

[vital crown]

You know damn well exactly why.

[bleak mantle]

I genuinely don't

kinda feels like an artificial way to add emphasis to your argument by creating a group of people who agree with you

[vital crown]

No, when I say we, I mean us all here in this chat.

You especially.

[steady mist]

Uhhh m110 did in fact get nerfed for this reason

By turning down the rof

I don't see your point here

[bleak mantle]

what are you talking about lol when did I ever suggest lowering the skill ceiling

[vital crown]

Lowering damage over range is lowering the skill ceiling.

[steady mist]

SMGs also are still viable at 70 meters

[vital crown]

Not rewarding players properly for leading shots lowers it.

[bleak mantle]

no fucking way

[steady mist]

It's one less bullet at 700 minimum rpm

Like

[vital crown]

Making players lose engagements because their weapon does magically less damage at distance changes the game from one of skill to rock paper scissors.

[bleak mantle]

increasing damage falloff on smgs balanced gunfights more between weapon classes. so now if you're an AR user who gets outgunned by an smg at AR range, that's a skill issue. Prior to the changes using an smg at ar range wasn't a skillful thing, it was just something you were able to do because of the way weapons were tuned.

[steady mist]

Good, it's a battlefield styled game

Seems like the right choice was made

[vital crown]

Yes, landing your shots on an opponent while having to lead 2x+ the amount they do is "not a skillful thing".

Your takes seem incredibly biased.

[steady mist]

If you really need your SMG to hit full damage at 200 meters, use an AR

[bleak mantle]

to add to this, by choosing a shorter ranged weapon you will need to be more conscious of your positioning and movement when in open areas or long lanes. it's a tradeoff between range and ease of use.

[steady mist]

If you need your AR to hit at 300 meters, use a DMR

[vital crown]

If you really need your sniper to one shot at 50m, use a deagle.

Oh wait, they're just as effective lol.

[bleak mantle]

it's really not that hard lol you make it sound like it's crazy difficult. with an automatic weapon even if you don't know how much to lead at the start you can just walk your shots onto target.

[steady mist]

Ah, you're delusional, good to know

Alr later

[vital crown]

You speak like range finder isn't a thing.

[bleak mantle]

then why aren't sniper rifles the cqc meta

[bleak mantle]

this is a complete non sequitor.

anyway, this is getting off topic so if you want to complain about smg range changes you should take it to #1138742525440565258

[vital crown]

Knowing range gives you an idea of how much you need to lead.

[vital crown]

No, but I'm here for the snipers.

I just want to keep the recent game philosophy consistent with all classes, especially snipers.

[bleak mantle]

snipers are already much harder to use in cqc than they are at range.

it's in the game lol

[vital crown]

They really aren't. Other than the capability to one-shot EXO users, there really isn't much difference between using a sniper close or far. If anything, moving targets are easier to hit up close because you don't have to lead much if at all. Claiming otherwise is straight delusional.

In CQC, you also don't need all the heavy weight attachments that slow you down. Midrange scopes have no glint. The high damage per bullet also makes peeking very effective in comparison with other weapons.

It's just an overtuned weapon, tbh.

[bleak mantle]

well then toss on a sniper rifle and have fun winning every single cqc engagement you find yourself in, I guess.

send clips pls

[sonic anchor]

lil' bro just wants shotguns fr fr

[vital crown]

I literally have used snipers to pad my K/D for free. Close range on a sniper is easier than long range on an SMG, pre-nerf.

[bleak mantle]

okay lol whatever you say

[sonic anchor]

delusional sweats trying to not be funny (impossible)

[vital crown]

Hey, I'm not a fan of these design decisions, but if handicapping weapons outside of their niche ranges is what you want, then we (meaning you and I) need to ensure consistency across all weapons with this design choice, or else the game will lack integrity in its design.

[bleak mantle]

I don't think explaining this again is going to work. have fun out there.

[vital crown]

We (once again meaning you and I) will have fun together. :)

[fleet berry]

Snipers hit directly center of the screen (includes bullet drop) but if you can aim directly center of the screen you can always hit what you're aiming at while moving/leaning

There is zero movement penalty or penalty to scope sway while using a sniper in BBR

[mild fern]

put the dot on your screen boys, we learned this like 15 years ago

[fleet berry]

No joke you can lean spam while using a sniper with a dot and make it very hard to counter you fighting sniper/sniper

This also includes every gun in the game, there is zero movement/aim sway mechanic for any gun in the game. Everything hits direct center only accounting for bullet drop if you can keep aim directly center of the screen (accuracy could be the factor here).

Edit: Upon further testing, any gun with 100 accuracy will hit center of the screen no matter movement

[strong epoch]

you cant really lean spam period :/

[fleet berry]

You can if you time it properly

Not as fast as before but you still can take advantage of head sway

[strong epoch]

its hardly spamming then

[past snow]

mad cuz bad my guy, maybe don't use smgs outside of close range y'know since they specifically got nerfed there

Claiming that choosing correct weapon for the engagement distance is "rock paper scissors" is just dumb. Skill is not only landing your shots. Being able to correctly choose your engagements and positioning are also skills.

Before the range nerf on smgs and the tune down to their aim punch they were so effective the single most common feedback was to nerf them, vector specifically since it was the earliest of them to unlock.

[vital crown]

My guy, if you get SMG diffed at 50m+ that's a skill issue.
You have bullet travel and no inertia in your movement.
Not to mention ARs, DMRs, and Snipers have high bullet velocity and high base damage.

[formal lynx]

Having a different gun than someone else isn’t an immediate loss, it just decides which one is in a more advantageous position.
A sniper versus an smg has the fight clearly in the SMGs favour, but if they’re just bad, and the sniper is good, the sniper can still win despite being at a clear disadvantage.
The same rings true for getting SMGd to death while you have a DMR or AR, while the SMG has a disadvantage it doesn’t immediately lose.

[past snow]

My guy there is not a single person that has the same problem as you

[formal lynx]

So yeah, if you lose to a gun at a range you realistically shouldn’t, that’s a skill issue. And it goes both ways.

[past snow]

I don't blame game design if an smg medic sneaks up on me and kills me in an instant

should've been more careful and covered my flank

[formal lynx]

If I get got by a sniper in CQC im not pissed at him, im pissed that I let him get me

[past snow]

what you are doing is just that though

snipers are extremely weak cqc

low ms, no armor and aim punch are things they need to deal with

pulling out your pistol is slow too

"bullet velocity" does not matter when you get me in 0.3 seconds and I can only get one shot in that time anyway

[vital crown]

Yes, because snipers cannot one shot in CQC.

[past snow]

If a sniper gets a headshot on you in cqc it's your fault

like it literally is your fault

you have so many advantages you should've used at least one of them

[vital crown]

If an smg lands a headshot on you at range, it's your fault.

[past snow]

also how tf does bullet velocity matter in cqc

[vital crown]

like literally your fault

[past snow]

your bullets and mine are just teleporting at that range

[past snow]

you can try to use my words but it doesn't work for your argument

your complaint is just skill issue

[vital crown]

It literally does though.

[past snow]

my guy are you mathematically challenged?

<50m range do you really think the difference matters?

what about the rpm?

what about the ttk?

[vital crown]

Weren't you the one calling for an arbitrary damage nerf because you kept getting diffed at range to a weapon with bullets of a snail's pace?

[past snow]

like your argument has no legs to stand on

[formal lynx]

Buddy, if you are losing fights that by all means are in YOUR favour

Then that means they were just better than you

[past snow]

you used an smg outside of its useful range and got shit on

[vital crown]

How are you getting hit at distance when you have no inertia to bullets with half the velocity of the other main weapon classes?

[past snow]

instead of saying "damn maybe I shouldn't ego challenge snipers at that range" you went "WAAAH sniper too op NERF"

[past snow]

bullet inertia is a new one lmao

[vital crown]

High damage low RoF weapons like ARs, DMRs, and Snipers benefit from peaking in and out of cover the most?

[past snow]

and smgs have the highest movement speed in the game

they benefit most from the current movement system

you can literally duck in and out of cover getting closer to them

[vital crown]

You can peak from cover for 1ms and dish out more damage than high RoF low damage weapons can.

[past snow]

man there's no point arguing with you

[formal lynx]

What even is the argument?

I forgor

[vital crown]

That's a new low if you're going to misconstrue my words for the sake of argumentation.

[past snow]

he has none

he's just bad

[past snow]

foh with this bs

you are the one who used my arguments word for word but just twisting them to your argument

[vital crown]

You don't like it when your own logic works against you.

[past snow]

but they didn't work for your shit cause 1 your argument is dumb and 2 it just doesn't make sense

[past snow]

my guy

you didn't even adress a single point

you just throw out dumb shit

[vital crown]

Either all weapons have the potential to perform as well outside their range or they don't. You cannot pick and choose.

[past snow]

"oh this weapon class is better at this than this other class"

snipers are weak in cqc

you are the only clown that claims otherwise

before crying about balance get good at the game

[vital crown]

The reality is, snipers can one shot all enemies up close just as they can far sans Exo. SMGs had the capability to be as meaningful at a distance as they did up close too. However, crying kids like you begged for their nerfs because you didn't want to admit that you got consistently outplayed.

Now, when suggestions are being made for the same logic to be applied to other weapon classes, you throw a tantrum.

[past snow]

Sure if you ignore everything snipers do one shot to the head at all ranges, but that's why they have their downsides

The only one throwing a tantrum is you

because you just cannot wrap your head around downsides of weapon classes

I already told you why smgs got shafted at longer ranges

if you weren't here for those patches you wouldn't know why though

they weren't outplaying shit they were just outgunning shit

[vital crown]

You can try to use my words but it doesn't work for your argument

[past snow]

sounds like you are the one who's mad that your low skill smg playstyle got shafted

oh yeah clown emoji is definitely throwing a tantrum

not you crying your eyes out about smgs not being good at every single range

[vital crown]

Your cognitive dissonance is astounding.

[past snow]

Battlebit discord never ceases to amaze me

[vital crown]

Likewise.

[past snow]

The absolute dumbassery on display here is just amazing

[vital crown]

You're telling me, lol.

[past snow]

Yep that's exactly what I'm doing finally an observation that is actually accurate 👏

[vital crown]

A self-reflection, more like...Hahahaha

You're funny.

[past snow]

Just scrolling up all I see is people pointing out how dumb your take is and you just not addressing any of their points

[past snow]

wish I could say the same thing about you but you're just dumb

[vital crown]

You're so upset, you have to resort to ad hominems. You did so from the beginning.

[past snow]

It's all the same behaviour, make dumbass point -> people don't agree and point out stuff -> ignore their points and act like you were the one not throwing a tantrum

calling a skill issue a skill issue is not an ad hom

if you want to go down logical fallacies maybe start with your inability to address counter arguments 🤷‍♂️

anyways my guy I'm done trying to get my point accross to somebody who just wants to vent their frustrations

have a good one but I doubt you can

[vital crown]

I'm not going to even bother trying to argue in good faith with bad bait.

[past snow]

as if you even tried

[vital crown]

It's really unfortunate. I came here to discuss the logical next step and evolution of this game's balance. But here we have rabid trolls foaming at the mouth of their beloved sniper being balanced.

I cannot even imagine myself being this rabid during the call to SMG nerfs.

[somber bridge]

Hi there, we got reports of people getting a tad personal with each other. This goes specifically to you, @past snow in this case. Please maintain the discussion level-headed without insulting others just because of them having a different opinion than your own. If this continues, we'll have to warn/mute people.

[vital crown]

The discussion here were snipers killing at close range and the balance suggestions to mitigate that.

The equivalent here would be:

"WAAAH smg too op NERF"
^Which many players such as yourself did say, but I do not fault you for that. I know this game can be difficult and frustrating at times for others, and no-one is to blame.

I just wanted to streamline this balance philosophy, so players know what they are getting into and aren't frustrated by seemingly unexpected and unfair encounters.

[eager osprey]

sniper rifles don't need mitigating in CQC. you have little to no margin for error

[vital crown]

I hope that next time we can have a more civil discussion and perhaps come to a point of understanding and maybe meet in the middle.

[eager osprey]

if you don't get the headshot, you're basically guaranteed to die

[vital crown]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most games design balance with high level play in mind for a reason.

[eager osprey]

even a "high skill" player isn't going to hit every sniper headshot in CQC. games are balanced around high play, not unrealistically perfect play

also, you have to ADS. you don't really have to ADS with assault rifles or smgs

[vital crown]

I think you are underestimating what players are capable of.

[eager osprey]

i think you are overestimating what players are capable of

especially when leaning still exists

you can alternate between Q and E to make your head hitbox basically invulnerable

[vital crown]

The levels of optimization that a game can undergo through weeks, months, or even years of experience.

[vital crown]

The spam has been fixed. Most engagements do not have both players see each other simultaneously.

[eager osprey]

it really hasn't though? i consistently lean spam so recon players can never headshot me

[vital crown]

By virtue of a 0TTK, snipers have higher starter and counter play potential.

[eager osprey]

it's not lightning fast anymore but you still can't realistically compensate with your aim for it

[vital crown]

I generally just shoot in the middle and it seems to work fine for me, but anecdotal experience can only show so much of a picture.

[eager osprey]

in any case, sniper rifles are already weak in CQC. recon players have no helmets, you have to ADS, and you have to get a headshot otherwise you just die. you're far better off just abusing the glock

[vital crown]

Right now, with the current slew of updates and with the recency of the game, the meta is still ever-changing and volatile.

[eager osprey]

it doesn't matter how much the meta changes, humans are not, and never will be 100% consistent. you will not be able to hit a headshot in CQC every single time, because it is difficult

[vital crown]

But it will settle eventually, and optimization will take place as players become more and more familiar with the game.

[vital crown]

BattleBit has fast movement, but TF|2 makes BB's movement look like walking through molasses simulator. If those players can consistently land headshots with the wingman or bodyshots with the kraber on pilots zipping around at 40+kph, then I have no doubts that we will see recon players headshotting players in CQC while they do their cute little air strafe.

[eager osprey]

titanfall doesn't let you dislocate your head hitbox and it also has limitations on air strafing

a pilot zipping around is doing so in a predictable arc

[vital crown]

Hmm...

Wallrunning, bunny hopping, and double jump create a lot of alternative movement options.

Maybe a predictable arc once they're only in the air.

In BB, lots of players need to ADS, slowing them down.

[mild fern]

I’d highly recommend checking out just how far titanfall 2’s movement has come in just the last couple years. I don’t think there’s any point where it’s predictable if you have enough skill

[sonic anchor]

in normal pvp context it really is predictable, even i as a "noob" with like 2 months of experience and being a mastiff main i learned that shit

[vagrant thistle]

Bro I ain't never seen a close range sniper this isn't an issue.

Actually I think a Remington user quick scoped me once and he deserves that kill cause I was playing like shit

[vital crown]

Then there should be no issue lowering the starting damage and increasing the reverse fall-off start.

[vagrant thistle]

Using snipers in cqc is extremely difficult if you are able to kill someone with them you deserve those kills

[vital crown]

I'm not doing this again.

[vagrant thistle]

Don't fix what isn't broken

[vital crown]

It's too late for that.

[sonic anchor]

i have seen it once and it was a cracked ass dude, if he wants to use a worse deagle in cqc then let him
also if you really say it's that good in practice then do it i want your clips man
but no you won't because it isn't viable (only in theory it is), countering your whole ass argument

[vagrant thistle]

Like I can kinda understand getting mad at dmrs in close range cause people actually do that (it's still dogshit in cqc) but snipers???

[vital crown]

There's more CQC snipes than 100m+ SMG kills.

pre-patch

[vagrant thistle]

Proof?

[vital crown]

My anecdotal evidence, since that's what we're all using.

All your arguments, you just replace sniper with SMG and cqc with range, and it all falls apart.

You all just want to eat your cake and have it too.

🎂

[sonic anchor]

that's some gigantic copium and cap my guy
i played a bunch of recon and only once did i do a cqc snipe on a dude not even seeing me (same for dmrs btw the whole not seeing the enemy cuz you got flanked) and mp5 could easily kill at 150m, pp19 was similar and vector did vector things, now granted not all of that was 100m+, but the amount of times you could just spray at an enemys location and still get a kill because of low hp or literally because smgs were that yoked outmatches the cqc snipes by magnitudes
only the most skilled of snipers with a lot of luck can do that meanwhile every pleb was running an smg as an ar
and that's really just what it boils down to, want an smg with better range? good, use an ar...

[vital crown]

So you're just going to use your anecdotal experience. Your anecdotes are no more credible than mine.

There was also another discussion relating TTK, RoF, and Damage.

Assuming same TTK, High RoF/ Low Damage and Low RoF / High Damage perform similarly in an open space.

[sonic anchor]

my guy, use the logical part of your brain...
sniper more difficult in cqc
smg really easy at range and in close range
now tell me what would be used by more people?

[vital crown]

Different trade-offs regarding reward per hit, and punishment per whiff.

[vital crown]

We're speaking at high level here. Snipers always dominate once players are skilled enough.

Doesn't matter the game. The instant TTK is too good of a trade-off.

[sonic anchor]

now you're just trying to get out of the argument because you realized how bad your take is...

[vital crown]

?

Do you just interject with unbacked assertions to "win" arguments?

Anyways, instant TTK isn't something to be slept on.

[sonic anchor]

do smgs need cocking when trying to do the next shot?
do they have a small mag?
do they have bad handling?
are they faster when dealing with multiple enemys?

[eager osprey]

we need to nerf the RSH because it has an instant TTK

[vital crown]

Back to my point, when cover is involved, Low RoF/ High Damage have the advantage because of their ability to peak high damage in short time.

[sonic anchor]

ahaa a sniper will outperform an smg purely because ttk
bro you can't make that shit up

[sonic anchor]

literally bailing out the argument

[vital crown]

How many kills can a base SMG net with one mag?

Headshots? Armor? Etc

Someone made a whole ass ttk chart.

TTKs were a lot similair than one would guess. Some ARs would even beat some SMGs. Sniper is always at 0 to the head unless EXO.

Hipfire, snipers behave the exact same way as all other weapons do.

Same sway, same handling.

ADS, it's just more accurate.

Good for all ranges.

[sonic anchor]

try looking at things outside a vacuum, if you did that you'd realize how dumb your take is...
anyways either you are trolling, being on your way to becoming the next kafkatrap or just not a very smart fella

[vital crown]

?

[sonic anchor]

🧢

[vital crown]

I think you're just a very biased person because you love sniping. This wouldn't be an issue, but you're blinded by your bias. You cannot see the whole picture.

As for trolling, this is the feedback channel. I stated my thoughts, and you lot jumped on them of your own volition.

[sonic anchor]

i don't like sniping a lot, it isn't easy under 200m because dmrs and the nature if it
and you're biased to shit for smgs, in fact i like smgs more, my favorite weapons are smg likes, scorpion, val
srsly before trying to "meh you biased" try looking at yourself and what you're trying to achieve when posting on feedback...

[vital crown]

Pre-nerf, I started sniping out of spite.

Waki Frontline was a free way to pad my K/D.

And I ended up unironically getting into it

Each sniper except the MSR which I recently unlocked, I've upgraded to the heavy suppressor.

I know exactly how easy they are to use.

Of course, they're amazing at mid to long range.

I've used them short too; I'm not the best with them, but they're effective enough without even putting in much time in them.

They're generally found to be oppressive in most FPS's for a reason.

TF|2 explicitly made snipers not hitscan which contrasted heavily with the majority of the weapons to balance it.

But in this game, it has the highest velocity.

Snipers are usually balanced by having a low magazine capacity and low RoF, but even that is usually not enough.

Especially with the auto bolts, I don't see why this game would become an exception.

I'm curious about something, brb.

Mininum sniper velocity is 900 m/s.

[sonic anchor]

cqc=/=short range, but even in short range they kinda suck (mid range gets dominated by dmrs btw)

[vital crown]

On a 60 tick server, that's 15m where it's effectively hitscan.

[sonic anchor]

now ask yourself why...
surely because you can easily move at over 40km/h
nah that can't be it right?

[vital crown]

That's TF|2 not BattleBit.

Speeds can go past 100kph if you're insane.

[sonic anchor]

and? if you flank them that's their fault.
you are not effective if they are facing you, face that fact bro...

[vital crown]

Alright, if an SMG hits you 100m+ away, it's your fault.

Are we really gonna do this again?

[sonic anchor]

you can easily go 40km/h+ in battlebit btw...

[vital crown]

I'm sure you can on foot.

[sonic anchor]

and? they aren't supposed to be effective at that range, which they aren't (good ars wouldn't have a place if they were)
but not effective doesn't mean they can't kill (they can)

[vital crown]

And snipers aren't supposed to be effective in CQC.

We're just going in circles at this point.

[raw plover]

They aren’t

[sonic anchor]

so c'mon what are you crying about? you get outsniped by a sniper when bringing a cqb to the fight?

[vital crown]

Can they one shot in CQC?

[raw plover]

In realistic scenarios, no.

[sonic anchor]

stop the cap you intellegence deniar

[vital crown]

I asked people the same thing when they would SMG'd from 100m+. The only way those shots landed is if your movement was predictable.

[raw plover]

But some of us actually use snipers and others just complain about theoretical scenarios they make up

[sonic anchor]

yes, but so can 2 handguns what's your point? apart from "whee whee it can happen 1/100 engagements"
srsly your copium and cap are legendary

[vital crown]

I'm sorry CQC sniping didn't work out for you, but you shouldn't speak for others.

[vital crown]

I could say the same.

[sonic anchor]

*works when the enemy isn't aware of you
same for every weapon ever...

[raw plover]

And I’m sorry you got barrel stuffed once and let it define you

[sonic anchor]

my god go cry about it, but let us have helpful discourse in here

[vital crown]

Your cognitive dissonance is insane.

[raw plover]

buff the fire rate for the ssg and Rem so they become even more oppressive in cqc

[vital crown]

Finally, some actual feedback.

[sonic anchor]

same for you baby
*cry

[vital crown]

I disagree with it since snipers are busted, but it is what it is.

[vital crown]

Are you really so frustrated with this opposing viewpoint that you're resorting to inflammatory language?

You have been throughout this conversation, so I guess it's par for the course.

[sonic anchor]

you're the dude calling me mentally dissonant my guy...

[sonic anchor]

only at range, where they should dominate

[vital crown]

I'm sorry you took it that way, but the term is cognitive dissonance. It doesn't mean that there's literally something wrong with your brain, as much as it is that you refuse to look at your viewpoints with the same critical lens that you look at others'.

[sonic anchor]

then the only one cognitively dissonant would be you, ik snipers can be good in cqc but they aren't due to handling, firerate, only having irons a laser or a 3x for cqc

meanwhile smgs should not be better at range because ars would be pointless then

also saying "snipers op" cuz you're good is like saying "smgs too weak" because the person's bad...

[vital crown]

Velocity and damage differences

[sonic anchor]

c'mon it wasn't difficult to out damage ars on medium range

[raw plover]

Velocity doesn’t matter at those distances tho

[vital crown]

Fall-off damage shortens the skill-cap for any given weapon.

[vital crown]

If the person had worse aim, true.

[sonic anchor]

it isn't skillful to kill someone with an objectively better gun in a position where the movement of you both is minimal (velocity no longer matters rly)

[vital crown]

SMGs have to lead double what ARs do. At 60hz, a 450 m/s weapon stops being functionally hitscan at 7.5m.

A 700 m/s weapon at 12m.

So at 100m, it is notable.

[weak rapids]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-eating-gif-26433511

[sonic anchor]

oh yeah and saying "you're wrong" when everyone else that talked with you
disagreed with your points
isn't really smart move btw
there's a reason everyone disagrees with your opinion (because it wouldn't work in the game or make it worse for some people for no good reason)

[vital crown]

If you're not moving, that's on you.

[vital crown]

You just ignore my points and brush past them.

Lol

[sonic anchor]

a firefight, while ads, you only really can lean spam and walk

[raw plover]

Okay so even if you have to lead double the distance, you’re aiming at what an arm and not their chest? Like a millimeter of actual screen space?

[sonic anchor]

[vital crown]

Depends on their movement and distance.

[sonic anchor]

i'm done here you obviously can't be argued with on a logical bases, have a good day/night

[vital crown]

Like-wise.

[vital crown]

I think that if you fall back on petty insults and mannerisms when interacting with people with differing viewpoints instead of actually engaging them, perhaps it would be best if you just did not engage at all.

[sonic anchor]

my guy you are about as logical as a rock, go play cod, cry about smgs in their thread but leave snipers alone smh

[vital crown]

More insults. Par for the course.

[vagrant thistle]

Jesus it's still going

Can we all like shut the fuck up please you are filling the channel with useless shit that the devs are gonna have to siphon through in order to find actual feedback

[sonic anchor]

you started with that shit...
idc you're just another crazy person with a bad take, everyone else agreed on that btw
and well nuh uh
apperantly you're so fed up that you still have to talk shit even after i politely pissed of this bs

[vital crown]

Nobody forced you to engage, but here you are.

[sonic anchor]

it's not the devs but ye

[vital crown]

I can't help but wonder why then you decided to debate. It's almost like you felt the need to shut the idea down because you're worried it held legitimacy.

[sonic anchor]

it doesn't, but ye.

[vital crown]

You're funny.

[strong epoch]

why do you two even bother to keep interacting. you arent going to agree with each other, apparently no matter what. just ignore each other

[sonic anchor]

you too, we should make a circus

[vital crown]

Because we are humans. And we both want to feel like we came out of this interaction on top. This is par for the course of human nature.

[strong epoch]

then be a birdie

[vagrant thistle]

maybe have a less shit take

[vital crown]

That's a deal.

[vital crown]

I'm not doing this again.

[sonic anchor]

yessir 🤝 🤡

[formal lynx]

Bro this is STILL going?!

[past snow]

ngl this shit is funny

reading through it is lowkey worth it

[chilly urchin]

Time to get learnt on this thread

Oh it's schlamm . Nvm I understand now

[past snow]

oh buddy it's not schlamm this time

[strong epoch]

well, it is schlamm too

takes two to tango

and boy were they tangoin

[past snow]

I mean schlamm is always a part of it, but he never starts it

bro got burned in the flinch thread as well

[chilly urchin]

Don't snipers do more damage the longer out you are?

[past snow]

yes they have damage ramp up

[chilly urchin]

Yea, so his close range sniping point doesn't make sense then right? Idk I just skimmed lol

[strong epoch]

imma throw myself into the fire here; i miss the old aimpunch. it was too much, but this is way too little

[past snow]

it doesn't

he acts like people can hit headshots close to consistent in cqc

[strong epoch]

people can. 3 people on the earth

[past snow]

which is just lying

[strong epoch]

thats technically people /s

[chilly urchin]

A little more punch depending on the damage given would be kind of nice? Not sure, I don't mind it now personally

[chilly urchin]

It's me, my aimbot, and my walls ofc

[strong epoch]

your walls have arms? id move house fucking immediately

[past snow]

as you can see the ramp up for m200 starts at 700m

people were mad at this too for some reason

[strong epoch]

yeah. frankly, snipers are already hella nerfed at 90% of ranges in the game

[past snow]

I'm living inside his walls

[chilly urchin]

I've always thought the m200 was too strong and invalidates a lot of other snipers because it essentially reaches its target instantly at most ranges you'd use it in. I've always thought the fire rate could take a little more of a hit

[past snow]

m200 has its own problems

the sniper class in general needs a touch up in stats

[chilly urchin]

When I unlocked it I was like "OH, this is baby mode. I understand now"

[past snow]

the way they are balanced against each other makes no sense and leaves a lot of them "unusable"

but that'd require someone to actually give a fuck about this thread

[formal lynx]

Hey devs can we get another Honeybadger reload buff?

[chilly urchin]

The class just needs more niche. I think giving the recon classe's drone flir vision and the spotter seat spotting would be a sick start. Give them smgs as well.

[strong epoch]

my thought has always been this; take away glint AND Medium scopes AND 6x on sniper rifles. force players using sniper rifles to play outside of the current DMR niche. youll have people using DMRs more at those close ranges instead of swarming salhan with sniper rifles, and the people who do use sniper rifles will actually be able to do their job of sniping

[formal lynx]

Recons should exclusively be able to live ping players as anyone is already able to with vehicles

[chilly urchin]

How about this

[formal lynx]

There’s there unique ability

[chilly urchin]

Remove all scopes besides the hunter scope

Let me cook here

[strong epoch]

oh no

[formal lynx]

Let him cook

[strong epoch]

ive already taken your pan away

[past snow]

bro burned the house down 💀

[chilly urchin]

All scopes under 40x and 20x are variable zoom. Just one scope

[strong epoch]

ah yes. my 6-40x

[chilly urchin]

No no

6x to 16x

[strong epoch]

15

[chilly urchin]

Whatever the current one is. Idk I just complain

[strong epoch]

wait does the game use a 15x or 16x?

[chilly urchin]

I assumed 16 lol

Someone who snipes inform us

[strong epoch]

thats what i assumed, but i swear i remember being proven wrong about that

i snipe. i just dont bother with the actual scopes

instead I just manually zoom by leaning forward

[chilly urchin]

🤷‍♂️. Either or, have a variable zoom scope that can cycle between the 3 zooms. People would probably use it more

[formal lynx]

Aight lemme cook here gamers

[chilly urchin]

Rather than never because 8x doesn't fit all situations, 6x is usually too little to take glint for

[strong epoch]

man, i snipe pretty much exclusively with a suppressed MSR. any glint is too much glint

it defeats the fuckin point of the supressor

[sonic anchor]

this was is funny thread indeed

[formal lynx]

WHAT IF DRONES gave a live ping on every player in a radius below them, so you could just leave it hover somewhere above a group and if they don’t spot it, you can get back to your sniping duties while providing the team with utility

AND it actually gives snipers a mini-side objective of clearing the skies if hostile drones that are hovering over allies

[strong epoch]

hell, IMO it defeats the point of sniping. sniper rifles should be fuckin heavy with low movement speed, but no glint

[formal lynx]

Eh? Eh?

[strong epoch]

snipers running around after every shot is such a stupid game trope

[chilly urchin]

Huh

Did we read something different. Did this relate to @formal lynx drone thing lol

[strong epoch]

that reminds me of a slightly similar idea i had earlier. give recons a choice of a recon drone. much smaller, much quieter, cant be weaponised, FLIR camera, Picture-in-Picture on your screen

[chilly urchin]

Picture in picture for the recon drone would be sick actually

[formal lynx]

It’d probably cause controversy because players are like “omg drones op they literally give walls” and everyone else is just like “just shoot the drone then “

It’s like “do bones” in dead by daylight

[weak rapids]

[chilly urchin]

It would probably be really annoying to shoot them out of the air, so it'd probably need a counter.

[strong epoch]

aye. probably have a lil red LED on it (exactly like what players have on their helmet) when its being used in PiP mode

[chilly urchin]

But I like the direction at least

Glint idea. Make it a debuff. If you shoot you have glint for a minute or something

[strong epoch]

and make it really fuckin zoomin. and 100% let it deal 1 player damage and get destroyed by ramming it into a players head

[chilly urchin]

Let one die and not have fun to silence the complaints of the many

[formal lynx]

Recon needs utility to fit their name

Right now they’re “man with sniper”

And “funny boom helicopter”

[strong epoch]

#1138399620570038365 message

[chilly urchin]

Give recon smgs. Give them more scouting gear. But don't make it automatic, make it team communication based (like the spotter seat on the tank). Give the sniper rifle a laser designation (now it fits the thread)

[strong epoch]

nah. just Val and HB. neither is terribly OP and would very much suit the flanking nature the class already plays into

[bleak mantle]

Before I start talking, do you guys think a discussion on glint would make the most sense for #1138743146541486130, #1138399620570038365, or #1152897198267314246?

[strong epoch]

uh

uhh

fuck

[bleak mantle]

Yeah

[strong epoch]

here probably

[bleak mantle]

Oh wait I know

[strong epoch]

im concerned

[formal lynx]

But what about my PDW with a 40x?

[chilly urchin]

yooo

Sniper gets 40x scope on every gun

That's their perk

[bleak mantle]

40x at 200 meters baby

[chilly urchin]

And it still has glint

[bleak mantle]

That’s what I’m talking about

[chilly urchin]

It's so blinding up close it's just a flashlight

[formal lynx]

[bleak mantle]

I just asked for a new thread on glint so we can discuss it without going over other stuff

[chilly urchin]

If they wanted glint to be super realistic, it'd flash your screen entirely white sometimes at specific angles

Simulating the sun getting in your eyes 😎

[strong epoch]

i disagree with glint as a concept on the whole. it plays into this stupid trope that snipers are "fire and flee" soldiers

just make snipers really fuckin slow. easy to run down, hard to find. not easy to find, hard to run down

[bleak mantle]

I guess I’ll talk about it here for now since I don’t want to wait, but I had an idea I thought was interesting. Oki just showed us that new tech to make friendly markers disappear when you can no longer see the friendly player. Couldn’t that new system also be implemented for sniper glints? Idk if they already work like that but I wonder if it might help solve the issue of them being visible through some walls and most foliage.

[strong epoch]

(yes im aware im very much in the minority with that opinion)

[chilly urchin]

The issue with snipers and glint as a whole is that snipers are inherently NOT fun to fight against when they're skilled. The distances are so large in this game that without glint snipers would basically have free reign to do what they want. So the shoot then relocate playstyle just sort of has to exist for it to be fun. The only thing I can think of is glint should only appear after looking somewhere too long or something, but then people would just quick scope lol

[strong epoch]

relative to other classes, tho, you dont really see even the really good snipers topping the leaderboards

[bleak mantle]

I think part of the confusion about a lot of game mechanics (like glint) is that we don’t really know how they work behind the scenes. What are the numbers behind it? What exactly is happening in the game?

[strong epoch]

(and i think UMP is even less fun to play against lmao)

[chilly urchin]

I had a sniper on my squad sniping at ridiculous ranges, so he was like 40 and 1 maybe?

[strong epoch]

ive gone 45-0 a couple of times

[bleak mantle]

What does the accuracy stat actually do?

[chilly urchin]

Top of the team because of it. That's pretty rare yea but my point is those players would be even MORE dominant

[strong epoch]

still a good 20 off the top player

[chilly urchin]

Distance plays a big factor in points

Despite not mattering much to killing

[bleak mantle]

I had a 59-0 on sandy at one point where I never got a kill inside of 1200m lol that was a fun one

[chilly urchin]

Which is why glint exists kind of. To at least maybe make it so someone can counter snipe you (which is a problem that the counter to snipers is other snipers, but what can you do there actually)

[strong epoch]

the death cam already does that to a sometimes infuriating degree

[chilly urchin]

I can't shoot back if you're 600m away tbh lol

[strong epoch]

well thats the point of making snipers slow

if i cant outrun you, theres nothing I can do about you turning that 600 into 6

and you can ping me to tell literally your entire team where I am

[chilly urchin]

I guess 🤷‍♂️. I have no problem with how snipers act currently though.

You'll be gone by the time I run 600 m, or I'll get shot, etc. I think pings are squad only

[bleak mantle]

Depends what you’re using but yeah for the most part

[strong epoch]

pings are squad only, enemy pings are teamwide

i think

(ngl I want to experience a single match where pings are team-wide)

[chilly urchin]

That would be pretty fun yea

[strong epoch]

either fun, or everyone's game would crash

or probably just nuke the server

[chilly urchin]

But my point is, I tend to not bother shooting back at snipers when I'm deep in combat. If I'm chilling way far away I might take some pot shots at the glint lol.

[strong epoch]

not with meee i dont use glint because im a RAT

[chilly urchin]

Yea, that's its own problem lol. When I'm getting snipped and don't see glint I know this game is going to be a massive pain 😂

[strong epoch]

heheh

[chilly urchin]

I think the 6x scope shouldn't have glint. I say this purely because I really want to use the cross for aiming lol

[strong epoch]

i have no counter-argument for that lol

[strong epoch]

use the T R I4

[chilly urchin]

Noooio

It has to be a large black cross

Entire screen covered

I wanna FEEL like a sniper 😔

[strong epoch]

a small black cross wont cut it?

small lives matter

[chilly urchin]

I hate little people

[formal lynx]

“Damn, time to abuse the prone key”

[chilly urchin]

"guess I'll play on the other side of the map"

somehow he still gets me

Repeat

[formal lynx]

“Look at all that open space I can’t cross”

[chilly urchin]

"ah, a corner I can't peak"

[past snow]

Honestly it's not a glint or no glint problem. Just fix the goddamn glint so that people who I can't see can't see me either. That way it's completely fair.

You might get headshot cqc though you never know

[chilly urchin]

Yee

[formal lynx]

no, I like it when this mildly oppressive class gets punished for existing through no fault of their own

it makes me feel superior with my high selfheal speed and ridiculous movement potential

[past snow]

average smg medic

[formal lynx]

PDW Medic, thank you

don't compare us to those... ugh, disgusting crutch users...

[mild fern]

yeah put some respect on his name. smg's are for rats. PDW's are for chads

(pay no attention to my 7k vector kills)

[past snow]

bro is such a gigantic rat he has an acting credit in vermintide

[formal lynx]

Let it be known that unlike SMG, we already have "W" in the name of our clearly superior choice of weapon class

[mild fern]

in my defense, 5k of that is post-nerf.

[formal lynx]

Cuz the PDW only gets Ws

[past snow]

hol up does this mean support keeps on losing cause they use LMGs?

[formal lynx]

[mild fern]

yes, as the prophecy fortold

[formal lynx]

We cracked the code

[mild fern]

assault, ASSault, ASS... we know why they suck too

[past snow]

but would that also mean recon's should lose because they use Sniper Rifles?

[formal lynx]

Leader

[past snow]

or assault rifles

[mild fern]

2 L's

oof no coming back

[past snow]

but if recons must lose why the fuck do we have the entire community at our neck?

[mild fern]

because no fun permitted

fuck glint, sniper scope should project a beam of light like a lighthouse from their scope

[past snow]

it already do though 💀

a light so powerful it breaks the spacetime continuum

[mild fern]

needs to be a solid beam, like the laser attachment at night

but just from the sniper scope always

[formal lynx]

do it like MGSV and have an incrdibly obvious and visible laser point toward their exact aimpoint

[mild fern]

i loved that game, never even finished it tbh

[formal lynx]

you should

its great

[mild fern]

ps3 deadge

[formal lynx]

get on steam

[mild fern]

no money 😦 i have like, the mgs collection disc thing

[sonic anchor]

my guy assault + pdw is nutty go fuck of with your smg medic, scorpion or no brain
jk ofc but i like assault 🙂

[mild fern]

yeah i bet you like ass...ault

[sonic anchor]

it unfortunatly doesn't have the funny br br deng gun

[mild fern]

stupid decision on their part tbh

[sonic anchor]

yeah but it's "intended" as if that is a reason oki, not that i like actively misused the bugs channel to get atleast some info out of him :[

[chilly urchin]

I wish the multiplayer was still alive. Mgo2 is at least

[rich thorn]

Sniper rifles should get buffed dmg imo, they dont feel special at all

[past snow]

I stg this thread has no middle ground

That's why it's the best goddamn thread in this server

[sonic anchor]

very funny indeed

[calm storm]

Recon is so ass man. The running speed being this slow makes the shit so unbearable. If i have to switch to pistol to sprint and get fucked because someone popped around a corner and i couldnt switch weapons in time. I have the light mag attachment and thats it and i still run slower than support. Thats so dogshit man.

Also hitting headshots and not killing bc helmet (wasn't even a thing in battlefield). How this shit going to look like roblox and feel less arcadey than battlefield.

[sonic anchor]

did you miss the part of battlefield + squad?
also support is slower, significantly...

[calm storm]

I mean it should fucking be

[sonic anchor]

yeah, that is because "why not like battlefield more? milsimmers killing the fun!"

[past snow]

he didn't mention milsimmers at all mate, don't put words in his mouth

[sonic anchor]

yeah but that's the sentiment i got from that, too much milsim...

[past snow]

it's understandable

the game got its big start from being "roblox battlefield"

[sonic anchor]

somewhat, but then there is what the game wants to be

[past snow]

that even the devs don't know

[sonic anchor]

ye... anyways gotta work now

[past snow]

same

have a nice one

[sonic anchor]

have a good day

[vagrant thistle]

add the Hecate 2

[sonic anchor]

sadly not on the menu in any forseeable capacity, i say fix sniper balance...
we more support guns btw

[formal lynx]

Honestly.. until they add solid AA options, giving snipers a

• extremely low ammo
• high recoil
• armor penetrating
• slow as fuck
• loud as fuck
  Sniper Rifle, it’d give a more niche anti vehicle play style

While also solving the “omg helicopters op”

[remote tree]

an anti materiel rifle would be interesting, yeah

like 60 damage against jeeps

[chilly urchin]

Funny instant kill rifle

[formal lynx]

Make it giga inaccurate so that you’re less likely to hit small mobile target but likely hit big shit

[sonic anchor]

nah just give it like 500-650 m/s velocity, should work

[chilly urchin]

The blunderbuss sniper

[wanton burrow]

i can only hope for a 90 damage sniper with 15rpm

i love annoying people from across the map :D

[clever jay]

hitscan, jk bro, jk

[dawn jolt]

Is anyone else slightly miffed that mid range DMRs can have a max zero of 1000m yet the long range snipers only max at 500m?

[strong epoch]

what

the SSG69 is the only sniper rifle that has a max zero of 500m

SV-98, L96, and R700 are 1000m, M200 is 1400m, and MSR is 1200m

but yes, its very very stupid the SSG69 cant range out to 1000

[dawn jolt]

Shows how new I am to the game. I've only ever used the SSG69. Just learned something new

[strong epoch]

yeah, it gets better pretty soon if youre not a fan of the SSG, the SV98 is a large step up, worry not lol (tho I love the SSG. Throw a suppressor on it and forego any grips and canted sights, you have a very effective on-the-move rifle)

[dawn jolt]

I've found i like the bipod stability when i can find a place to bunker down and give overwatch

[strong epoch]

just a warning; the long range scopes are frankly not worth using. the scope glint is awful and makes you a very easy target no matter where you are on the map. youre better off using the medium scopes (Burris and T R I4 are the best of the medium scopes for sniping)

[remote tree]

I've found reasonable success with 8-12x scopes paired with a canted sight

Use the canted to scan, scroll to peek with zoom

limits glint to when you're actually shooting instead of being a beacon of gondor all game

[chilly urchin]

60x scope please. I have a hard time seeing people with the 40x

Name it the microscope

[remote tree]

0.1x scope, call it the macroscope

[chilly urchin]

It increases fov

Add a scope with a rearview mirror as well

[remote tree]

big enough fov and you don't need one

[chilly urchin]

It increases it to 360

Add a scope that puts the game into vr mode while rmb is held

[remote tree]

720

need to see all my enemies twice

[chilly urchin]

1080 so it's full hd

[vagrant thistle]

1440 gang

[chilly urchin]

4k Scope

You can see your own ball hairs it wraps around in such high quality

[strong epoch]

Relativistic Scope; warps gravity in the space surrounding the user, allowing you to see, and shoot, the back of your own head

[chilly urchin]

Time scope, it let's you see the back of your head from the future

[formal lynx]

Schrödingers Scope: it’s only there when you look through it, otherwise it unrenders

[chilly urchin]

It's only real when you aren't looking through it

When you ads you don't have sights

[odd girder]

• Whole sniper rifles need a rework, atm it's just an evolution for each sniper tier you unlock till the M200 making it not interesting. Some are using MSR and R700, but comonly people use the L96 to shot slightly faster and almost all are using M200 because it's just way better, insane velocity almost hitscan making it and the only rifle that can one shoot an evo helmet.

• Every bolt should be able to kill an evo armour in the head, the fact that it can protect from AR/DMR is already good enough.

• There should be some sniper rifles that aim down faster and are lighters for CQC, some heavier with higher velocity and dmg for long range and some mid sniper rifles that can reload/bolt action faster.

[eager osprey]

Every bolt should be able to kill an evo armour in the head, the fact that it can protect from AR/DMR is already good enough.

lol no

[odd girder]

then get that already existing M200 meta and get OS in the head anyway against every recons because they're all playing it

[eager osprey]

M200 should not be able to do it, it's an unnecessary nerf for an already underused class

the solution is not to let every sniper rifle do it lmao

[odd girder]

Shitty solution to buff support

[eager osprey]

nooo you don't understand i need to be heckin able to 1 shot the slowest class in the game!!!

[odd girder]

slowest by 20%, on a class that supposed to keep spot and play support because yeah.. you're not rushing with a SMG..

[eager osprey]

it's closer to 30%, since you've got the armor, backpack (where the normal option doesn't even weigh any less lmao), and weapons, all of which slow you down

being able to be instantly killed with a headshot is frankly unnecessary. don't act like one shotting everyone besides a support isn't good enough

nvm saw your feedback in the other channel, blud unironically thinks support is overpowered lmfao

[odd girder]

and that's how a no-brain try to read stuff fast and absolutely get wrong on someone

I just said : put bolt OS in head (already the case because everybody is using M200) that'll not change anything
And the fact that you said it's "good enough to os the other classes" is one of the worst take ive ever seen on this server

[eager osprey]

nah

[odd girder]

and you can actually remove the OS HS, it'll not put the support on a higher place because it's not what's the class needs

[past snow]

Either supports get a movements speed buff or no sniper rifle one shots them in the head. I'd rather give them the movement speed buff to keep the interaction between a support setting up an lmg on a chokepoint and a sniper, but as it stands if they are not getting a movement speed buff m200 is just too oppressive towards them.

[odd girder]

Its oppressive against everybody not just support

[past snow]

everybody else can move to make the sniper miss

[odd girder]

The movespeed has a really specific impact like running to hide and not be seen, or under shots but most of the time when youre moving on shoots you can often die.
Id also prefer a movespeed buff on the whole class

[past snow]

supports are really easy to hit

[odd girder]

In real way I dont notice difference when shooting on any classes my tracking change way more because of the fighting range than movespeed of classes

[past snow]

That's cap, you can clearly tell when you are shooting a support because how much slower they run compared to everyone around them

medic vs engi you might not be able to tell sure

but supports are clear as day

do keep in mind attachments also come with movement speed reductions and supports tend to use the ones that give the most reductions

[odd girder]

As I said im just shooting on them as medic or any others. Once youre experimented you just adjust your tracking on the target speed

Ive never tought "damn he runs fast or damn he runs slow" its really a fast moment

[past snow]

The thing is, yes you are shooting them the same in the sense that you are using the same rifle and the same button to shoot them. Even you yourself say that you adjust your tracking based on the target's speed which is what exactly you should do. But since the target speeds are so different it stops being the same shot, supports require less leading and since they are slower they spend more time in your cone of fire allowing you even more time to set your headshot up.

[odd girder]

It doesnt have a high effect the only breakpoint is on short window or flank when you're far and get seen from that, last stuff I can see from that is when you're running away from fighting and you dont want to get catch or again seen

[crystal heart]

I mean I stripped off all exo armor on support and just use standard so no exo helment and I find I get popped by snipers less often than I did when wearing exo which has the "headshot protection". The speed absolutly matters for not getting popped by snipers on that class

[odd girder]

The positioning is way more important that just the running speed in general, if you're moving in a hall full open everyside and you run in the middle of it sure, if you move with some mindgame and try using cover, spacing, and even good angle shooting (like recon do when sniping) you'll not get killed that easily, I didn't say movespeed has no impact but you'll get kill way more often by AR/SMG/RPG (:D) than a sniper because of your movespeed in an average game

[naive copper]

Are Rem700 and MSR worse than the L96 on any category? Or is it just me?

[odd girder]

Yeah atm it's just better sniper each time you level up and there's 2 "outsiders" which is R700 and MSR, but L96 and M200 are the strongest stats wise, one shoot faster, the other is way easier to 1sk HS everyone

[winter haven]

I kinda feel like I'm too good at hitting headshots. I don't have particularly good aim, so it's not because of me. Are headshots too easy to hit? I haven't looked into the hitboxes in the game, but it kinda feels like the hitboxes are bloated?

I'm not complaining, because others can headshot me juat as easy. I'm just pondering whether it's a bit TOO easy to HS everyone right now?

[strong epoch]

MSR has the fastest fire rate of the sniper rifles, but the Rem doesnt even have that. its only disappointment

[strong epoch]

M200 actually fires faster than all the SRs except for the MSR. the "Bolt Speed" stat is not, for some reason, useful for comparing fire rates between the rifles, as it doesnt take into consideration the delay between firing and then the start of the bolting animation, and the "bolt speed" only tells you how fast that animation is. however, generally the shorter the aforementioned delay, the faster the firerate. Thus, the MSR and M200, in that order, are the fastest-firing SRs because of their shorter "bolting animation delay"

[atomic hill]

MSR might be a bit better with new bipod changes, I need to test it.

[strong epoch]

it wouldnt benefit more than any of the other SRs. bipod was never the MSRs issue

[coral current]

The massive nerf to barrel attachments has ruined sniping for me, having to work to get the m200 with the ranger to be able to one hit headshot took me hours now damage is the same no matter the barrel it kinda defeats the purpose of levelling up and getting a new sniper since no sniper can headshot a support class and everything is a 2 hit to the body

[wide vault]

So there's now one class, specifically designed for being slow and beefy, that have to aschu 20% movespeed to wear the heaviest armor in the game, and you're upset you can't just ignore it and 1-tap them anyway?

And you can still one-tap every other class in the game?

[coral current]

I primarily play support actually so no

If all snipers take 2 hits to headshot a support in an exo helmet and all snipers take 2 shots to the chest to kill there's no point to try and upgrade your weapons as they all function the same

[past snow]

This man has never ever played a game like this before lmao

Sniper damage profiles being the same does not make them the same

You still have other stats, like muzzle velocity (which is just as important), RoF and so on

[wide vault]

Move speed penalty (which seems like it's been toned down overall which is nice)

[past snow]

Supports are the slowest moving class in the game, giving them the ability to survive one head shot per life is kinda required

especially when you consider the absurd muzzle velocity on m200

[formal lynx]

Let Supports have this W, they fucking need it

[coral current]

I absolutely have played a game like this before.
Rate of fire on bolt actions isn't particularly relevant.
Muzzle velocity affects bullet drop, and travel time, bullet drop doesn't matter since the game has the ability to zero the scope.
Okay so support can survive 2 shots to the head no matter what gun is used, that doesn't change my point which is now there isn't really any reason to level up your snipers or switch between them

[past snow]

ok now I can confidently ignore your opinion lmao

[formal lynx]

That’s a failed design thing, honestly the survivability of support should’ve come from an armor buff / rework, not a small sniper nerf

[past snow]

Travel time is not compensated by zeroing my guy, that's the big thing here. Supports can't run for shit so your low travel time hits them the hardest.

[past snow]

Snipers need a all around stats rebalance

they are horribly balanced between them

[formal lynx]

The snipers all feel the same mostly

[coral current]

I never said it was, nor did I say support has to be able to be one shot. The entire point I'm making, is that snipers are essentially all the same now with the exception of bullet velocity

[past snow]

I mean that's bound to happen, snipers tend to do the same thing. You give them different bolt time (RoF), mag size, sound etc. to make them feel different

but in BBR for some reason these stats do not make sense with other more "direct" stats like damage and muzzle velocity

[formal lynx]

Remember the control stat?
Remember how it does not do anything

[past snow]

You can make snipers feel different without having one of them be so much more powerful and fuck an entire class' existence

This is why it feels like you have never played a game like this before

trying to lowball muzzle velocity's importance is just...

[formal lynx]

I mean I’d be fine with a sniper rifle designed to counter support at a trade off. You wanna cuck support aight, give us two of your mags

At least that one would be unique

[past snow]

rock paper scissors type of class design kinda fails when your scope is as big as this

it might work in smaller scale games like OW or MOBAs but in games like BBR it leads to very frustrating situations

[formal lynx]

I’ve had a balancing idea like that in mind, actually.

• Offence (Medic, Engi, Assault)
• Defense (Support)
• Recon (recon)

Offense counters recon (high mobility flanking beats stationary sniper), recon counters defense (AP rounds maybe, plus slow target is easy to hit), Defense counter Offence (Support should be a fucking wall that wins duels based on armor alone)

[past snow]

eh I'd rather balance classes around their "role" rather than what they are weak against, as I said rock paper scissors leads to annoying situations

[coral current]

I'm not lowballing muzzle velocities importance nor am I arguing to fuck over support (which again is the class I primarily play), all I am saying is this attachment rework has made snipers feel the same, you could easily make it so velocity is lower and increase damage for a gun for example that would be a good compromise. Before the change the m200 was the best damage and range wise, now it's just got the best velocity, it's not a "revert the changes fuck support over" argument I am making the argument I am making is without there being a sniper with much higher damage than the other ones (even if the trade off is the bullet going at a snails pace) this change only really makes all the snipers mostly the same and should be accompanied by a rework of weapon damage as a whole, there's no point to grind for attachments if they don't do anything.
Have one sniper do lots of damage but the bullet speed is 200ms
Have another have a 1400ms speed but the bullet only does damage at long ranges

[sonic anchor]

(snipers need a rework)

[coral current]

Literally my point is this change is not appropriate without rebalancing all the guns along with it, since it gimps a lot of guns (not just snipers) and makes grinding for attachments pointless

[past snow]

wow 🤯 who'd have said that I wonder (definitely not the entire thread including me)

[sonic anchor]

🤯

[past snow]

attachment grind was meaningless even before the change though

[coral current]

Not really since it increased the damage your guns do

[past snow]

we have so many flat out useless attachments it's actually impressive

[coral current]

the vast majority of attachments were pointless though

[past snow]

yea no, as you pointed out only m200 really benefited from getting the barrel upgrade

if you used anything else the barrel upgrade meant close to nothing still

[sonic anchor]

except for the dmg increasing ones
(who fuck up balance so hard it's ridiculous)

[past snow]

we have what? 6 fucking bolts?

split into 2 groups that do the same shit

we have long range scopes that are unusable because how shit the glint is

[coral current]

You mean the glint that can be seen through trees?

I think that is perfect as it is

[past snow]

nah the glint breaks causality

[past snow]

so you mean people seeing you before you see them as a "warning" is good?

the one thing that removed long range scopes from the game

the one thing that has everyone using mid range scopes

is "perfect"?

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[coral current]

Yes and I am not being sarcastic at all

[past snow]

forgot to add that the glint view cone being larger than your own view cone

so people can and will see you before you see them

[sonic anchor]

i as an occasional dmr-ling have nothing to say other than

|| 💀 ||

[past snow]

idk what to say lmao

turns out I was right about ignoring your opinion

you hate to see it

[coral current]

as long as I can feel like a hacker getting kills on people I don't have line of sight on across the map through trees

[sonic anchor]

that is actually so fucking scuffed to say lmao

"who needs balance lol "

[coral current]

Honestly sarcasm aside, I was too busy to play for ages and came back and that was still a thing seeing glint through tree is the no.1 thing that needs to be fixed

[past snow]

might as well since the game's dead 💀

[sonic anchor]

it ain't but 🤷

[past snow]

u sure?

I'm just waiting for larry to go "u sure?" in general feedback again

[sonic anchor]

multiple full servers + live community ones

[past snow]

or oki's 15768873548th rework that's opposite of what everyone asked for

[sonic anchor]

even 6k players is a lot, that's certainly not dead

[past snow]

6k players by itself is meh

but the trend should be worrying

[sonic anchor]

we can talk about dead if there are no more full servers lol

well the game peaked at 80k, which is a lot
seems to be stabilizing now

[past snow]

because at the release it was marketed (purposefully or not) as roblox battlefield

[sonic anchor]

not really

[past snow]

the slow updates, the inability to address big issues, the miss steps in reworks etc.

these keep on piling up

[sonic anchor]

low poly bf + some squad fits better

[past snow]

I don't think you can argue this one here, there were a bunch of content creators and articles calling it just that

it does not matter what fits or doesn't

whatever we're off topic again

https://tenor.com/view/modcheck-gif-19633400

[sonic anchor]

welp, devs didn't market it as such and i only looked at the steam stuff 🤷

[strong epoch]

With the barrel changes, the M200 is the only SR that will ramp up to one-shot kill damage by the end of its damage curve now, correct?

[vestal lodge]

I don't like that most snipers are unable to kill over 1km now. Half the time I shoot at someone at that distance I can't hardly see them let alone try for a headshot. I mostly use these rifles at these distances and was very disappointed to see my sv98 with it's ranger barrel was giving me assist counts as kill time after time

[wide vault]

Tbh now that snipers can't instantly 1-shot as easily, I'd be happy to see scope glint removed or at least toned down heavily.

[wide oriole]

Wow that's so wrong, take a silencer to stay hidden

[coral current]

Glint can be seen through objects, so you can't exactly "be hidden" and that doesn't change anything about what I said. Damage is always the same, you cannot change ttk.

[wide oriole]

You take 4x scopes+ silencer

The long silencer given 10% more bullet speed too

[wide vault]

Having TTK for each weapons "set" and using the attachments to solely affect gun handling is honestly a good idea

Both from a balance and identity standpoint

[coral current]

That's true but many weapons aren't viable without the increase in ttk that the Hb brought for example

[wide vault]

That's a question for future balancing

[wide oriole]

I don't like the fact that some rifles just zero up to 600m instead of making it scope based.

So that midrange scopes get punished with the zeroing because they only go up to like 300m and all the glinting Long range scopes Go up to 1km and more

[coral current]

That's the point it should have been addressed with the attachments overhaul, the damage buff from the heavy barrel was a bandaid on the problem now there's no bandaid and just problem

[naive copper]

How it might be better? Also... M200 no longer meta? 💀

[wide vault]

It's still good, other classes can just poke their heads out a little now

[wide oriole]

we'll see if DMRs are used more often

and since snipers can use DMRs too, counter sniping with DMRs might become a thing

[atomic hill]

The bipod being reliable makes fast bolting speed of the MSR more attractive as a stat. Though I think bipod benefits dmrs like svd more.

I do think recon needs a half circle concrete buildable. Or the ability to have a Spade gadget to dig a shallow foxhole in terrain (forced to vault out of as a tradeoff).

Combined with the bipod changes it would help enable aggressive playstyles.

[winter haven]

I think the scope glint needs to be reduced so it scales more with distance, and so it's more directional.

Also it really shouldn't be this easy to hunt enemy snipers, by just sitting behind a tree, zeroing in on the glints, and instakilling them by just shooting the bright white crosses in the leaves

[strong epoch]

oh trust me, pretty much everyone agrees. its a huge, glaring hole in the sniper rifle category (and thus recon as a class on the whole, since its easily the worst class for using DMRs)

[I went on a rant but honestly I think the "Oki and the balancing team dont give a shit about Recon" thing is a very dead horse, and isnt worth beating]

dont hold your breath about the glare getting changed any time soon (or possibly ever from what ive heard)

[naive copper]

Did they buff the MSR?

[atomic hill]

Not that I know, after some testing I think you can build & hold down an aggressive angle with the msr bipod.

I recommend others try it out and see what they think.

[vestal lodge]

M200 is the only rifle for shots over 1km now. It was always the best rifle for that, but when you prestige or are a new player without access to it you can't counter them at that range anymore. You need to hit them twice while they hit you once

[somber bridge]

This re-balance was meh at best, m200 is no longer a 77dmg at any range which is extremely great, but with the ranger it still retains its op velocity along with the standerd 70dmg, it still holds S tier mainly cause of that velocity,
the angled grip got buffed so the L96 is now a sight ninja weapon for quick scopes, so get ready to hear more whining about sr's when it gets mastered,
Also really glad the ssg 69 Came out unscathed by all this as it is a starter rifle an when it's bare bones it's nearly a struggle to play effectively.

[naive copper]

Shift grip is now very useful to snipers too

[neat mist]

Idk if this is a bug or just a weird outdated mechanic, but it seems strange that iron sights and canted/top 1x sights are the only ones that shake when cycling the bolt. Seems kinda backwards, like the smaller, lighter sights should be easier to control. Also would make iron sight sniping more viable as a close-range high risk option if this were changed.

[jaunty bronze]

When looking at snipers in isolation, its understandable that the SSG69 cannot zero out to further than 500m... But its an insult when you conside that all DMRs can zero out further.

[wooden pine]

It was mentioned a few times in the past and seemed contentious but I am in the camp of removing any scope smaller then a 6x for sniper rifles (paired with fixing scope glint)

[winter haven]

I hate this idea but I agree. I am having so much fun destroying with a medium scope, and the number of kills I am getting, and the ease of which I am getting them, is unreasonable :p

Sniper rifles need to be super powerful but should also require more care and tactical consideration

There's also the fact that anyone with a long range scope is easy fodder for anyone with a medium range scope. If the other snipers had long range scopes also it would be a lot more challenging to have snipe-offs.

[vagrant thistle]

Finally

[sonic anchor]

funk yeah

[past snow]

now fix the visibility cone as well

[vagrant thistle]

pls yes

me when 6x scope only zooms i slightly more than acog but it broadcasts my exact position to the entire server:

[sonic anchor]

well you can now hide between trees

[past snow]

I'd rather use a mid range scope and be able to position however I please

[sonic anchor]

well my 40x shenanigans on basra will be funnier now

[wooden pine]

This is what I was hoping for when I say "fix scope glint" but foliage is fine I guess

[sonic anchor]

@past snow another change, i don't think you'll like it

[past snow]

yay

oki cannot solve a problem even if you slap him in the face with the answer

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-nickelodeon-patrick-oops-gif-5752957

[molten moon]

quick someone make a sniper cone change while Oki is on snipers!!

[vagrant thistle]

this one is interesting

it sort of fixes the problem

i would of preferd proper cone changes

to make long range scopes less penalizing

but ok

[past snow]

if only we had whole threads of players that came up with fixes to said problems and most of those fixes are just simple number tweaks

[vagrant thistle]

real

i dont think they read the feedpack posts

it doesnt seem like it atleats

[past snow]

when you have this much feedback on certain problems like glint, map voting etc. it is not excusable to "sort of" fix the problem

eh then they can just keep doing pointless shit like hyping up a free weekend for 10 days to people who already paid for the game

[vagrant thistle]

there are so many good ideas in the feedback posts but the only thing the devs pay attention too is "iNeRtIa!!!!!!!11!!"

[somber bridge]

wow so acog now has glint, what about flir?
Also the glint is the size of a flashlight still even on acogs, what's next dmr's

[sonic anchor]

i guess so, it's a medium range scope

[somber bridge]

guess I'll just spam m110 now

[past snow]

they still do not understand what they want their game to actually be

so I get why the inertia thread has become what it is

still, it takes them too long to do anything and while they are trying to do those said things the non-existent communication makes people even more frustrated

[wooden pine]

Well

That is a way to address it

[atomic hill]

I've experimented building tree forts and the foliage fix will be a buff to long range bipod sniping which is good.

I still feel like just the m200 should have medium scopes (minus flir) removed and given binoculars as additional gadget.

I continue to fear medium scope glint would further advantage the m200 at the expense of other aggressive sniper playstyles. If it's gonna have the highest velocity make m200 players myself included play a more dedicated long range role.

[wide oriole]

mfw medic 4x scope DMR sniping now

[hot raven]

this isnt squad

[past snow]

what does this even mean?

[hot raven]

battlebit isnt meant to be realistic

[past snow]

so? what part of that implies it's meant to be realistic?

it's more about fairness than realism

[hot raven]

as per your original post "veil of reality"

[past snow]

[icy fulcrum]

yeah, medium scopes on sniper rifles where becoming a rising issue. lets not pretend the sniper rifle isnt a potential long range one hit killing machine - but i'd at least like for them to consider adjusting the glint visibility cone before doing something as significant as adding glint to medium scopes.

[hearty shoal]

i think people sniping behind safe zones was far more of an issue than medium range glints ever were to be honest med range snipers were never an issue to find even suppressed just feels like a bad change

[eager osprey]

there was no reason to ever use long range scopes

zeroing in meant you could easily kill at any range with medium scopes

personally i would've removed their ability to zero in rather than give them glint, but whatever, it's better than nothing

[hearty shoal]

kind of worse than nothing no? plus after a while you stop zeroing anyway

kind of just removes incentive to find flanks to snipe from behind or any real medium range gameplay

[eager osprey]

you can just use ironsights 🙂

[hearty shoal]

plus not many maps even have that amount of foliage necessary

[atomic hill]

Don't touch zeroing, I need it to kill cateat players with their insane movement. If I snipe those jumping medics from long range with a l96 or msr they deserve to die.

I'd rather they made sniping challenging like through wind metering at range on hard-core servers.

[nocturne smelt]

Either revert the glint on med scopes or fix the glint cone before it’s added

[atomic hill]

• Sniper's spot's will last 2x longer than regular pings.
That's a W.

[analog quail]

Adding glint to Med Scopes is a huge L. It's hard enough with the recent maps to even snipe at all. I guess they want us all to be SMG Sweats. 💀 💀 💀

[icy fulcrum]

plus, you can run DMR on engineer and assault, run medium range scopes without glint, then have the perks of either an RPG in your pocket or quicker ADS+reload - arguably better and more versitile than just having 4 more seconds of spotted enemies. the only significant perk recon is going to have is their drone.

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah it’s bad

[thin wasp]

Love my recon class.. me with the M200 and a 4.0x in a snipers hide providing overwatch was my gameplay. Close enough to get flanked by a smart enemy and far enough away to have a good kill area. Playing the real sniper role.
BUT I GUESS TURNING ME INTO A BEACON IS COOL.

What's next Oki? Recon class gets new player skins with a bright orange safety vest?

[winter haven]

I love M200 with 4x scope. But I have to admit I like it because it makes the game so easy. I can pick off so many people so rapidly sometimes, while being basically impossible to spot. Sometimes I am like an unstoppable force with that thing.

I think a smaller glint with a limited visible range makes sense, though like many others have suggested I do think ALL glints really need a more aggressive visibility cone. That would result in a buff/nerf combo that leads to a more fair game

[hearty shoal]

i mean it would be fine if how it is intended to function is reversed

people within 600m dont need glint to find a sniper

and it would actually be able to be used in sub silly ranges

400m glint for mediums >500 rm makes long ranges glint

that way you are punished for not being in unflankable positions

[winter haven]

Yeah, I think a very narrow visibility cone and different sized glints would be all you need

Basically if the sniper is aiming at you, you can see the glint

The medium scope glint being very small makes sense in that context too

[atomic hill]

I don't think they're gonna fix cone glint anytime soon. I think the medium scope glint as a result will be a disaster if this goes live.

The dmrs, the vehicles, the long range m200 users will make mincemeat of aggressive & bipod snipers.

Medium glint with current cone shouldn't be visible unless an enemy is over 300m away. I don't like giving a free flashlight glint aim assist to enemies who can see me.

[balmy cargo]

undo glint change im begging u

dont feel like playing anymore

[coarse umbra]

what's the point of playing sniper now if actual sniper scopes are already punished heavily

[wooden pine]

Guess he just thinks people will use mediums anyways even if he fixed scope glint's cone of visibility, which I could see happening

[past snow]

then he has no idea lmao

just look at other games

[wooden pine]

Only solution would be to remove anything smaller then a 6x other then iron sights which I guess he finds too drastic

[past snow]

sniping with long range scopes is just more comfortable

[past snow]

this is just not it

[wooden pine]

People don't care about comfort everyone is sweaty

[past snow]

we have similar games to look at

[wooden pine]

We just had like 4 people admit they only use a 4x up until this update because its better

[formal lynx]

I mean, I played 5 games now actively trying to get 150m+ kills with a boltie... And I was just not comfy, getting 0 kills.

I swap to DMR Medium Scope, I suddenly get the kills I need

[coarse umbra]

At least give us makeshift bushes or smth

[formal lynx]

(Still only 7 kills at that range tho)

[past snow]

my guy nearly everyone uses 4x cause of the glint

the way zooming is handles by the game forces some people to use 4x scopes

your FOV affects the amount of zoom you get out of your scopes

but instead of looking at 4 people you can look at the general population of some games this game was inspired by

[past snow]

if only the existing bushes didn't despawn at 100 meters

[wide oriole]

didn't assault lost access to DMRs and has PWD and MPs and stuff now?

[molten moon]

They gained access to DMRs and BRs again

And so did engi

So basically, all that was changed was medic got the MP7 and P90 removed, and BRs were added to support and recon (but BRs on recon won't mean shit since they have no reason to use them)

[winter haven]

Definitely a problem... Arma III has some interesting solutions to despawning grass, where the ground kinda "swells" up to the level the grass was at, and the player models sink into it.

[atomic hill]

How about instead of doing anything to make long range scopes better, we make medium range scopes worse. 🤦‍♂️

I started using the m200 only for long range scope sniping pre patch because the sniper rifle meta is borked. Grimmz when he was playing just stopped using the m200.

Give recon tree fort buildables/sniper nests so long range sniping is more viable (also helps glint cone issue). And a curved concrete buildable for bipods.

Let the nests collapse and kill players inside with 1-2 heat rockets. Engineers can have rangefinders and rocket nests from 500m away for counterplay.

[past snow]

Cause the long range scopes are fucking ass

that's the reason why people even bother using most mid range scopes

[atomic hill]

Agreed they suck, as a Flex player I just want the devs to understand the problems Recon players experience.

[winter haven]

I feel like this is a band-aid solution to bridge the gap to the better solution that will come further down the line

[atomic hill]

It's a bandaid, but if we have to wait months for deeper improvements that will be bad for the game.

[past snow]

Bandaids are a no go with how little changes we actually get

especially when you consider the problem is in fact not complicated, to the point that this thread has come to the same solution like 10 times already

[atomic hill]

Then the issue is whoever is collating feedback to the devs is not passing on much of substance.

[nocturne smelt]

I think there’s a chance that implementing the glint cone is hard

Has the med scope glint gone live, btw?

[winter haven]

I would guess it's a case of "very easy to implement, very hard to optimize". I can see it slogging things down if not implemented in a very smart way.

[nocturne smelt]

Yeah I considered that as well, though as a client you do know which direction everyone is facing

[vagrant thistle]

they fixed it showing through walls

id imagine that would be harder to implement then cone

[nocturne smelt]

Honestly yeah

[winter haven]

They showed how. Basically all trees have an invisible blob in them that blocks pings and glints. When you already know where there's a glint, this is a simple change.

I feel like the glint visibility is directional already, isn't it?

The thing I can imagine being a potential performance issue, or network issue, is if someone sweeps quickly back and forth over a crowd of players, and it has to rapidly change who sees the glint and who doesn't. But if it's handled client-side, simply having the enemy player's view cone ahould be enough, as it is only having to check whether YOU see the glint or not.

[vagrant thistle]

Glint is already directional but the cone is massive

[winter haven]

It kinda depends on how fast everyone's view cones etc are updated

[vagrant thistle]

it would literally be a number change

[winter haven]

Yeah this is what I gather. That COULD make it easier though, depending on how it's calculated. If it's something like having the map split into large sectors and deciding which sectors see the glint, that's a very simple and efficient method. But very rough.

We don't know how it's actually implemented, just how it behaves

[vagrant thistle]

i mean theirs already a system in place to determine if your camera is near an enemy; for spotting

would it be so hard to use a simmilar system

increase the radius

and have that as the area of visible glint

literally just where you are looking

[winter haven]

True

[icy fulcrum]

so not to get hopes up (and i have nothing to back this up), but there is a chance we may be misinterpreting what the notes say. it could mean that medium scopes now have glint, but only when the sniper is positioned over 600m away. again, don't get your hopes up.

[winter haven]

Could still be very different the way they have it implemented now. Either way I hope people are clear about how they feel about the change when they see it in action, and that devs take notice. They have done changes based on people's feedback several times, it's just not quick to turn.

[winter haven]

I'm curious about what they meant exactly too haha

[vagrant thistle]

im pretty sure its 0-600m but idk the wording is really bad

id still rather just have the glint cone

[icy fulcrum]

cause why specify in meters anyway? why not just say that "medium range scopes on snipers now have glint", period?

[icy fulcrum]

i agree, but it would be a good change regardless. it would stop long range snipers from using medium range scopes and potentially force them to manage their breath again.
i still agree that that i prefer a smaller cone.

or give recon a special perk that prevents them from getting spotted with the new 3d spotting system.

[winter haven]

I think a part of it is that medium scopes will be at a sort of disadvantage, having to stay far back where it's harder to see people in order to stay hidden.

I think that's underestimating the medium scope

My record kill with an acog is over 1600 meters away, and I have msny kills over 1km with 4x scopes.

It just means I'll be more visible if I'm closer

[atomic hill]

If they want recon players playing further away give them overwatch points for killing enemies on or near objectives.

[nocturne smelt]

You do get points for kills where the enemy is on the objective

[molten moon]

#dev-wip message

[winter haven]

The described glint changes look fine to me. But I still think it needs to have a narrower visibility cone for all glints.

[vagrant thistle]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1178941863944802304

[balmy cargo]

That change will just force everyone to play across the map and glints in its current state are completely broken. It goes through leaves, grass, etc, making it basically a suicide move even scoping in. Recon is the only class that even contests with medic and even then, barely. This is a complex balancing problem where you want to make it fair but you don't want to make the gun unfun to use. A simple glint bandaid is not the move.

[winter haven]

The new update also fixes glints theough foliage etc

So that does change things

[past snow]

but now you have no glint at over 800m

like this sounds contradictory

at 800m+ there is nothing to harm you so you'd expect the glint to be the most intense at those ranges

not starting at ranges where shit like dmrs can threaten you

Also what the fuck does "sniper rifle" even cover? Is it only bolt actions? or does it include dmrs as well? If it's only bolt actions why not just say that?

[winter haven]

Bolt action only

[balmy cargo]

That's a start, but my former point still stands. Encouraging sniping across the map is an unbelievably boring direction to take. The current style just feels good to use with enough counter play because medium rangers still are forced to play close enough to be able to be shot back at.

[winter haven]

Yeah, the changes proposed make a surprisingly little difference to my use of medium scopes...

[past snow]

and on top of this they encourage people to sit on a hill nowhere close to the action and be completely useless

if the glint cone matched your vision cone we would not need this at all

[winter haven]

Yeah, I agree with that

[coarse umbra]

I wonder if the devs read this thread and not base their decision on the vote in #dev-wip

[winter haven]

Mostly their playtesting group I think

[wild lake]

with medium scope tho

I like the idea, but I agree the curve isn't right.

[hearty shoal]

it almost seems backwards why would the glint slowly get WORSE as your ability to be engaged goes down as you go further away surely thats the very thing glint was made for also 200m seems a bit close for some maps it beginning to appear at 300-350 and then ramping up as you go further out of what is the intended playing field of medium scopes

[wild lake]

200M is already far tho

But I'd flip the curve (left / right) and make it starts at 250m

[mild fern]

I feel bad for you sniper guys. I mean I hate getting sniped but that has more to do with everyone using med scopes to dodge the shitty glint system

[wild lake]

I do think the Glint should be entirely reworked. Like people have suggested: Reduce cone, and only people in it can see the glint, but still put glint on Medium scope with the curve thingy.

I think Sniper being under 300m, needing a silencer+medium scope to be stealthy is a good thing. But I don't think Sniper at the corner of the map, should have the "No one know I'm killing them".

[mild fern]

Vision cone sounds the best to me as someone who hates dealing with snipers, atleast then it becomes a skill I can practice to pay attention to distant shit as well

[wild lake]

So you have to trade: Safety of distance for stealth in short range.

[mild fern]

Way better than a random flash from someone not even looking at me

[wild lake]

300M is still pretter far tbh. Only DMR are good enough to be dangerous there.

[winter haven]

I will take the medium scope glint if it's only visible to those who need to qorry about me. I'll even take it without the diatance falloff curve.

[molten moon]

As long as the cone gets reduced I'll be ok with it for now

[hearty shoal]

isnt that the point of DMRS?

200m still pretty easy picking for ARs

[wanton burrow]

so guys is this the update where snipers die

[hearty shoal]

especially BRs

[boreal shale]

If you want to fix snipers and keep the glint feature, simply increase scope sway on snipers and generate glint only when stabilizing to shoot.

If there is enough sway, it will force you to stabilize and slow down your shooting as well as allow recon to scan for targets without giving up positions.

[hearty shoal]

thats more or less how binos work already and people dont seem to like that

:x people myself included hate the bino loop because its just too slow

by the time youve gotten your rifle out your shot is gone

thats my main issue with glint

the perfered method of bino-> swap-> aim is just too slow

[boreal shale]

Exactly. But you could make Binos give the spotting bonus vs scopes.

But this would also be faster since you are not swapping things. Its all right there, just clicking shift will cause glint to appear.

You could also not try and stabilize, but be at a disadvantage.

[wild lake]

yes

[wild lake]

you can still retaliate up to 400m with Battlerifles. But killing is harder and harder the more you push the distance.

[hearty shoal]

i mean starting at 300 and peaking at even 400 and i would even be fine with it staying on till like 600? i do hope it also applies to long range scopes

using a 6x sub like 500 seems like pain anyway

[wanton burrow]

i honestly think the whole medium scope glint lasting for 600 meters will just make people switch to dmrs so they don’t get that glint

[wild lake]

yeah

Long range isn't changing tho

they said only for medium

[hearty shoal]

lol funnily enough i think DMRS should have glint on medium range in the 100-400 range

[wild lake]

Hell no

[hearty shoal]

they are so strong right now i feel it would make little difference

[wild lake]

you don't have the OS HS on dmrs

[hearty shoal]

i mean on mediums

[wild lake]

even two shot HS doesn't kill with some armors

[hearty shoal]

mk20 has such rapid shot speed it doesnt matter

[wanton burrow]

hitting the shots is different

[wild lake]

You need to realign you shot and it gives time to react compared to a sniper bullet.

Sniper are much better than DMR on long distance, and AR/SMG are much better on closer range. Knowing AR are still good up to 200m. It doesn't let much space for DMR. But rn, the DMR are still pretty good because of the precision they have.

Might have to do because the flash hider + stabil grip is OP on DMR rn

[hearty shoal]

tbh i think its far less than you think with aim punch involved

if the dmr shoots first theres basically no reacting

[wild lake]

I don't feel Aim punch that much 👀

[wanton burrow]

am i like shadowbanned or what

[hearty shoal]

nope

[wanton burrow]

okay good it turns out people are simply not responding to me

anyways i’m really not happy with the medium scope change

i think it’s really lame

[wild lake]

depends on the situation: If you're prepared for second shot or not.

[wild lake]

switching to DMR is pretty fine tho

[wanton burrow]

yeah but i snipe when i don’t wanna be DMR levels of aggressive

[wild lake]

As people said tho, if the cone of glint was better, there would be no need for all of that.

[wanton burrow]

if the glint was like opacity 20% of what it is now

i could be less sad about my main weapon type being nerfed

[hearty shoal]

my baseline fear is that even if the cone is reduced there is no way that anyone isnt noticing the one line that means exactly one thing

no matter the opacity or what ever else

maybe if the particle itself was made smaller too it would help a bit more

[wild lake]

you mean the bullet tracer?

[hearty shoal]

i mean the glint effect itself

[wild lake]

hmm

[hearty shoal]

reduce the size of that or how it scales at distance

because going like even 500m out

the glint is bigger than the individual

[wild lake]

there's definitely stuff to do with it.

[hearty shoal]

i cant count how many times ive blind fired at a glint because i couldnt even see the persons head

that seems like theres room to explore

[wanton burrow]

maybe make the medium scope glint appear when someone’s 300 meters away so it becomes a regular sniper scope at a distance?

i just really think the 600m shit with medium scopes is silly as hell

i’m sniping at closer distances mainly

[hearty shoal]

yeah idk if im shooting 600m im usually shooting other snipers usually everything is like 0-500 depending on the objective

that one snowy map C cap the tower people heli drop on all the time

kinda have to be far out

zalif most of the decent non middle island spots are like 200-400? for like a nice flank on the objectives close to safezones?