Sniper Rifles (General) - Feedback

[vagrant thistle]

i think it would be cool if the scopes ranges meant something but i think other stuff should be done first

[empty ridge]

sniper rifles need a massive aim debuff...
fighting sniper rifles is a one sided interaction where if you are not a sniper you are out of luck and have nothing to do beside fight on horrible conditions

either make sniper life shit, or make it so that every weapon that is an ar or over to one-hit-kill on the head as well...
sniper rifles aren't magic weapons, a headshot is a kill even with a pistol at 100m, and making it a one sided fight doesn't make it fun

either lower their damage linear to AR's or buff all of the weapons to bolt fire

[bleak berry]

bro, 1 hit kill headshots is fucking awful

go play siege if you dont trust me

[empty ridge]

i know it is horrible, i've been through planetside 2

it is the worst mechanic ever invented

[bleak berry]

sniper rifles it is acceptable due to the slow firerate with them but god getting sprayed with a vector and then just collapsing because you get tickled on the head by it is awful

[empty ridge]

more than 3k hours ingame

[bleak berry]

planetside 2 doesnt fucking have 1 shot kills to the head though, what the heck are you talking about?

[empty ridge]

it does...

[bleak berry]

with the exception of snipers

and the crossbow thing iirc?

[empty ridge]

2.5x headshot damage with bolts... all bolts

nah, the crossbows are 1.5x

or 1.25 i don't remember

ps2 is dead now

[bleak berry]

anyways, sniper rifles are fine damage wise. i could agree with making aiming harder via adding more elements to account for other than drop and travel time but only if glint gets removed

[empty ridge]

glint needs to stay due to render distance and no grass render at range + pixel range(at a certain range snipers are 1 or less pixels wide)

as long as snipers don't render all of the grass in their field of view - they should keep glint imo at anything more than 1x scope

[bleak berry]

honestly just keep grass rendering at that distance. i really dont see it causing all that much of an issue performance wise considering how simplistic this game is everywhere else. you have some budge to spend elsewhere because you aint bogging the game down with effects and high res textures everywhere

[empty ridge]

think about it like this then, you lay down on the ground as infantry
you cannot see the sniper due to grass in your face

he on the other side sees through a tree and doesn't see the grass you do

how is this fair?

[bleak berry]

i literally said to render grass at that distance dude

[empty ridge]

ah sorry, im really annoyed at sniper rifles overall lately

had a lot of horrible experience with them overall in almost every game in the past week

still want them gone

[wide hamlet]

I believe this is not saying that the ACOG marks have to correspond with bullet drop, but with rangefinding.

[bleak mantle]

Ah, I see what you mean. Thanks for pointing that out.

[wide hamlet]

It would be nice, but kinda pointless because the rangefinder does that job way better

I've heard some people say they should remove the rangefinder from snipers since it trivializes it too much, maybe it does but it's also literally the only way to accurately find range in this game right now

[vagrant thistle]

still waiting for glint rework

[past snow]

Adding shit like wind doesn't work in games like bbr, the problem is the absurd muzzle velocity and the minimal bullet drop. Need to fix those before adding more things to account for.

[bleak berry]

im fine with that too

having bullet drop increased and muzzle velocity decreased... or one and the same really. are all bullets effected by gravity the same or do we have funky physics going on?

[past snow]

Also to even insinuate snipers as broken and overpowered at the current state of the game is just disingenuous. The movement speed and acceleration are bonkers and you have no inertia. As long as you don't stand out in the open it is not that easy to hit you in the head for most snipers.

[past snow]

In theory yes, but in games bullets can be subject to different gravitational accelerations. So dropping muzzle velocity might not have the impact you are looking for.

[bleak berry]

yea, which is why i was asking. idk if this game does funkyness for the sake of gameplay or if every gun is experiencing 9.8 meters of acceleration down for their bullets

[past snow]

They probably experience the same, but you can never be too sure. Sometimes there's that one gun that has a different g value.

[peak crow]

What if we just deleted them all together from the game 🤔

[past snow]

Game dies probably

as an example I only play the game for sniping

remove it and a good portion of players will just leave

but looking at player numbers they seem to not care about that 💀

[bleak berry]

yea, planetside 2 had this funky rifle that had zero bullet drop but fired after a short half a second or so chargeup. theoretically amazing but balanced by being fucking ass to use

i cant remember if it was hitscan too or not

[peak crow]

Tbf the rest of the player base would have a much better time though 🫢

[bleak berry]

as annoying as snipers are to me sometimes they still serve a vital role in the game. im just convinced 90% of the problems with them are map problems. i recently experienced a game of tensatown where a dude built a fucking tower on that silo on the south side of the map and nobody could deal with him because of how hard it was to see him due to the fog and how many walls and such he had helping him hide his silohuete.

couldnt even destroy the tower because it was deep in enemy territory 💀

[past snow]

How about the rest of the player base learn to use more than 10 braincells then?

[peak crow]

I’m just not sure what vital role they fill that other classes can’t apart from being spawn beacons.

[bleak berry]

There should never be an oppressive sniping spot like that that you cant reach. im fine with it being a god spot, not exactly enthusiastic about it being a spot im unable to ever threaten without getting headshot

[bleak berry]

they act as long range suppression forcing players to keep their head down and also serve the role of cracking open fortified areas

[past snow]

Maps are fucking ass, especially in 32v32 apparently where you can snipe from the blue zone

and see into objectives

[bleak berry]

yea, thats an issue. being able to snipe from your safe zones isnt a good thing to have

particularly an issue on frontline imo

[past snow]

at least it doesn't happen that much in 64v64 and 127v127

[past snow]

frontline is a bit different though

[peak crow]

You can do this much more effectively though with an AR or even an RPG from distance.

Half the problem is you need to be goat’d to be effective with a sniper whereas you can give a monkey an SMG and they will have more impact.

[past snow]

objectives offer enough cover and blue zones keep changing

[bleak berry]

yea, because you still have some time before you start taking damage too

it not as significant as a problem

[past snow]

so it's not as bad as say rush 32v32 where you don't have anything to do

[bleak berry]

but man... i played a few games of sandy sunset frontline. god forbid, if one team manages to get a sniper firing line set up on their ridge 💀

that shit its rough man. like i know it is a shit map but god damn

[past snow]

So, we should remove the high skill ceiling weapon class because high skill ceiling bad?

[past snow]

fuck sandy

[peak crow]

No not at all, what I’m saying is 99% of the snipers are terrible and actively drag the team down by taking up slots. Whereas even a monkey with an SMG or RPG can be more helpful.

It’s like when you play 32v32 rush whoever has more snipers loses.

[past snow]

So we should just remove what people want to play because you think losing a game that has no impact on anything is more important?

[peak crow]

They should change the snipers so the good players still slay with them but it pushes the apes to other classes

[peak crow]

You have to look at it from our perspective as well, it’s very frustrating playing game modes where you need to push an objective but half your team is sat in spawn on a hill.

[past snow]

Then you just leave the server, I don't enjoy spawn camping so when my team starts doing it I leave

[bleak berry]

the issue is we need to treat the game like how competative tf2 treats classes. sniper is a specialist. half the time he doesnt meaningfully contribute... then you run into the very short period of time where you pop off and singlehandedly hold off a push with your buddies who also have bolties, or crack open a fortified position with sniper fire from wildly different angles, or suppress enemies into staying down so your team can push through a killzone without being shredded

its a class that is highly specialized imo

[peak crow]

Why should we be forced to leave servers because of snipers

[past snow]

Why do you feel like you can push your own enjoyment of the game above other's?

[peak crow]

That’s exactly what terrible snipers do 24/7? The good sniper however are nice to have

[past snow]

Why should I leave the server if my monkey medic doesn't understand camping is boring?

[past snow]

How do you expect those terrible snipers to become good?

[peak crow]

Where they play medium range and provide a good spawn whilst still killing with closer range scope, I like those guys

[bleak berry]

played waki (dont judge me, frontline monkeys always pick waki and tensa) and got like 30 kills in the span of like 2 minutes just absolutely popping heads during a huge enemy push through the bridge. my squadmates next to me probably did similar numbers... and then we all went the rest of the match only getting like 10 more kills

basically did all of what i said sniper is great at doing. suppresses and enemy and forces them to keep their head down, cracked open fortified enemy positions on the bridge, and stalled out enemy attacks by thinning them out with sniper fire

[peak crow]

Watching some guides would probably help, instead of being sat 2 miles away.

[past snow]

...

People get better by playing

I also hate extreme long range snipers since they provide fucking nothing

but just because I don't enjoy them I don't suggest that they should be gone

[bleak berry]

but if you dont have situations like that sniper really doesnt contribute much. oh cool, i got a kill on a single random dude running across a field... as if that does anything other than mildly inconveniencing them.

[past snow]

They are not broken, they are barely effective but some people just like doing it

[peak crow]

That all sounds great but a sniper getting 30 kills in 2 minutes is rare as hell, I also know from being in the middle of Waki that 90% of the snipers kills get picked up by the medics.

The above also doesn’t help snipers with being effective.

[bleak berry]

i would probably do it more and be more inclined to take riskier extreme range shots if glint didnt broadcast me. with glint i dont dare do anything except countersnipe and occasionally pop the head of a support who built himself a sandcastle

as it is, extreme range sniping doesnt contribute much and is also much more risky considering how easy glint makes countersniping. i suppose i could use a glitnless scope but.. ehh

[peak crow]

I’m sorry to say it but if you are playing from 2 miles away, the chances of you getting better are incredibly slim.

Better off playing an aim trainer.

[past snow]

When a big push happens in waki bridge it's not rare at all and even if they get revived that still stalls the push and provides opportunities for grenade multi kills

[peak crow]

Extreme long range sniping does absolutely nothing and half the time it’s between two snipers having a battle to try and get a screenshot for Reddit

[bleak berry]

my point is that sniping is a specialist role. they excel in a very narrow niche. within those niches they are absurdly powerful but outside of them you will struggle to actually meaningfully impact the game

[peak crow]

Where exactly are all these snipers dropping 30 kills in 2 minutes? Someone show me a clip of this happening.

[bleak berry]

congrats, you identified why extreme range sniping is risky and doesnt contribute much. it devolves into 2 snipers trying to battle

[past snow]

Let's use this extreme niche play style to suggest an entire class nerf, god I'm good at game design

[peak crow]

Very narrow niche which is mitigated by a jumping and strafing medic with his med kit out

That’s another thing by the way

[bleak berry]

i really should have screencaped my score after that event then, but it does happen. you can see it if you go play frontline (particularly frontline waki) enough

[past snow]

Maybe if you played as a sniper once in your life you'd know what sniping gameplay is actually like

[peak crow]

I would never play sniper when I can use an AK-15 and do the same job as 5 snipers whilst pushing and reviving my team

[bleak berry]

it is, as i said, during a large bridge push. enemies trying to push and also taking cover. all you got to do is pop heads peaking out behind boxes (preferable from somewhere you yourself wont also get popped)

its so fucking dense with people i literally stopped aiming after a bit. i could just point at sandbag and click for a free headshot

[past snow]

Then why do you feel like you have the experience to comment on sniper's issues with this much confidence?

You clearly don't

Even this #1138743146541486130 message tells me you don't understand how snipers actually work

[peak crow]

Because at the moment they feel like a plague on the game

[past snow]

Getting kills on sniper is feast or famine in this game

You either get an absurd amount of kills in a short time or you get 1 kill in like 2 minutes because the map dynamic changed

[bleak berry]

i enjoy being able to bully snipers with the lmg buffs yet at the same time i feel really bad for them that the ultimax has crept up on their effective ranges and is pushing them even further out (to where they will have the issues i already discussed)

[past snow]

But god forbid we buff snipers or fix their glitches or anything

[bleak berry]

im regularly shredding recon players from 100-200m with the gun, its actually goofy. definitely balanced by me being a sitting duck doing it (im using the bipod ) though

[past snow]

we need to give them more muzzle flash!

[bleak berry]

i either get like 1 kill and then 5-10 more or i get headshot within the next 5 seconds. its one or the other. i accpet my place within the rock-paper-scissors gameplay balance. im rock and snipers further than 200m (or even just snipers that know where i am and pre-aimed before peaking) are my paper

[peak crow]

Name a more iconic squad than 5 snipers sat 2 miles away with an ammo box.

I single handedly just stopped about 150 potential kills

How will snipers ever recover from this?

[bleak berry]

do you even know the point you are trying to make or are you baiting?

i though i said that one of the ways that makes sniper tolerable to play against is you can sneak up and kill them like that. i actually complained about maps designed in a way where it is impossible to do so

[peak crow]

Tbh I just walked up the hill towards them they are just oblivious as always looking down their scopes

HOW WILL THEY RECOVER PEANUT

[bleak berry]

but no, that genuinely is something like 150 potential kills if we are being generous and assuming they are decent shots and that the flow of combat favors them

[past snow]

James can you just stop? You have no idea what sniper gameplay actually is like and you hate snipers. You are the last person who should give feedback on this topic.

Oh you killed 5 snipers on the hill what a play

[peak crow]

Was pretty nuts wasn’t it

[past snow]

What about all the times I killed 10 people holding an objective?

[peak crow]

On their home turf

[bleak berry]

but on to the feast or famine aspect, i have had games where i went like 50/2 as sniper. I got like the first 40 during the opening 10 minutes (probably closer to opening 5) and then the rest of the match i had pretty much nothing except the ocasional trying to take a wacky flank that i spotted

[peak crow]

I walked up in slow motion, music blasting, ready to game

[past snow]

Man I hate these fucking threads having no moderation

[peak crow]

At least my kills won’t get revived

[past snow]

or you know I wait for a revive and kill the reviver

OH GOD

things you can pull off when you have more than 10 brain cells

[peak crow]

Snipers can’t stand this one trick! (Running and jumping whilst healing)

[bleak berry]

his wont either, everyone on the objective is dead

[past snow]

who would've thought the class about precision requires a bit more thinking than "HeHe I use ak15"

[bleak berry]

you know he actually is right, i cant stand this

[peak crow]

It was a crazy clip I know, those were actually the top 5 snipers in EU

[past snow]

https://tenor.com/view/clap-clapping-applause-applaud-cheerleader-gif-12591824

[peak crow]

Did you see the 4th guy miss all his shots with his pistol from behind, this was actually because I caught him off guard (he was posting his 1000m shot on Reddit)

[past snow]

This is some top tier cringe

[peak crow]

I literally had this exact thought when I got to the top of the hill and saw the ammo box, we have similar minds man

https://youtu.be/xa2ZpT9e65w?si=clYfcl5ryLE7SvVe

I have to go now

I like this sniper in the video

BYE GUYS LOVE YOU

[bleak berry]

i think a great beginner's taste for sniping is to suggest people play support and use the ultimax with a 4x and a bipod. it genuinely does have a similar mindest considering your counter is sniper and you also have and effective range of like 200m.

the difference is you are infinitely more flexible than a sniper and serve a similar role while also being able to fill much wider niches

you have very similar positional concerns (minimizing skylining, presenting small target, generally want to be prone), you suppress and also crack open fortified positions (but also is incredibly effective at locking down chokes too unlike sniper who tends to leak people through due to slow firerate), and you have a much longer effective range than most other weapons except dmrs (who have about the same range as you), other lmgs, and bolties (who you still see within your effective range because of the famine part of the feast/famine playstyle)

[strong epoch]

After using the SSG69 extensively post-prestige, I cannot agree. Player speed is just too fast, which combined the no-inertia movement just isn't super fun at 900 velocity. Instead of "wow this gun is challenging" it's "wow this movement system is shit". Imo the issue is that sniper rifles are able to be used in such close relative ranges, not that muzzle velocity is too high

[past snow]

As you can see from the last discussion, the way you like to snipe is just not effective for objectives and leads to people hating having snipers on their team

game is based around objectives

so snipers should be able to be used closer to objectives otherwise they are just not designed correctly for the game

[strong epoch]

ive been sniping from 200m plenty with the ssg. its asinine to try anything else with it. animations still have very choppy transitions, and especially when prove simply moving at all causes your head to teleport up and down.

even at 200m, current hitreg system just isnt super reliable with 900 velocity

[bleak berry]

Game is allegedly based around objectives. Oki however has said and done thinga that make me question how much so

[past snow]

Oki is just bad at designing games

[strong epoch]

thats the niche i think DMRs should fill. trying to make sniper fill it is part of why DMRs have had such a hard time finding their own niche

[past snow]

bro has no idea outside of his smg medic playstyle

[past snow]

my guy dmrs and snipers cover the same range, with snipers going further back

[strong epoch]

thats my point

[past snow]

locking snipers into being a 700m+ no impact weapon is not a way to go

[bleak berry]

Its funny because 200m puts you into ultimax range now

[strong epoch]

nothing says youd have to lock them into 700m+ lol

[past snow]

that's your idea of long range though

and 500m is not that much different than 700

you are still an entire objective away

[strong epoch]

just make DMRs the objectively better choice at 200-300m. you dont have to make sniper rifles entirely unusable at those distances to achieve that

[past snow]

you have no impact on the objective you are shooting at

objectively better?

what?

[strong epoch]

wdym what

[past snow]

they 2 shot rn and have faster fire rates

that's about all you can give them without making snipers absolutely useless

[strong epoch]

make snipers have a slower bolt speed

[bleak berry]

Imo, it wouldnt even be much of an issue if snipers didnt have that obnoxious glint. You can have an impact at that range draining bandages and forcing players to stay down or in cover... and then glint gets you headshot.

i mean yea you can use a medium at that range but a stronger scope would be more practical if not for the goofy glint through trees and shit

[past snow]

dmrs are even more annoying than bolt actions

[past snow]

they already are slow af

[strong epoch]

some are. but for the M200, for example, its bolt speed stat in the loadout menu is a straight lie

same for the MSR

[past snow]

don't get me started on glint

fucking lazy game design

[strong epoch]

yet industry standard sadly

[past snow]

industry standart means it is lazy lmao

yet no other game has it as bad as bbr

probably because they don't have oki at the helm 💀

[strong epoch]

this is true

[past snow]

bf3's glint was really well implemented. It didn't look like a fucking flashlight.

[strong epoch]

feels like it would be beneficial for the dev team to bring some sort of development secretary on-board

[bleak berry]

Honestly, this just goes back to the problem i mentioned in other threads. Bbr has a range compression issue. It has gotten better but so many weapons are squeezed into being used in a super narrow band of ranges.

like 90% of fights are under 50m and smgs are great through all of that and even up to 100m and then the automatic weapon right now with the longest effective range is the ultimax with like 200m. We dont really have notable range bands where different weapons perform better except for those sharp jumps. I still think dmrs, while better now, are inferior to lmg and bolt actions because of this. Bolties also get shoved further and further back too as we decompress some of the weapons to be useful at longer ranges which just makes the "snipers sit at the back of the map" problem worse

[past snow]

this is expected though

[oblique vapor]

Then how do you balance SR if not with a drawback of being visible from miles away

[past snow]

you don't see clear range bands in a game this fast paced

[past snow]

It's not a drawback atm, it's a straight up disability

[strong epoch]

i still think this game isnt fast paced by design

[bleak berry]

Bro, have you SEEN any scope glint lately?

[past snow]

you get seen through objects you can't see through, and you get shown to people you don't see

[strong epoch]

its simply got a super unfinished movement system

[oblique vapor]

Good, at least I know where to go for an easy prey

[oblique vapor]

Irl or in game?

[bleak berry]

I still get sniped at 500+m by goobers using medium scopes that i cant see

[strong epoch]

irl lol

[bleak berry]

Its not a problem

[past snow]

because it isn't lmao

[bleak berry]

Just use your brain and go "hey, these are good sniping spots. Let me put some cover between me and those points"

[past snow]

😒

[bleak berry]

Even as annoying as snipers can be at times its more an issue with map design creating areas they cant be threatened in except by other snipers

Sandy sunset frontline comes to mind...

[past snow]

"The game has no maps I'm excited to play but it has a bunch of maps I alt f4 out of"

[bleak berry]

Tensatown also has this grain silo on the south of the map usually deep within controlled territory

[past snow]

is a comment I saw and completely agree with

[bleak berry]

Idk, night lonovo is fun but i havent really seen it since launch

[past snow]

most night maps are implemented so badly I just quit straight up if I ever get one

just making everything dark is not how you design night maps

[strong epoch]

thats just not "most" night maps. its simply the ones that only ever get picked

lono? dark as fuck even during day. same with river and kinda district

[past snow]

just look at tehran highway and death valley in bf3

those are night maps yet they are not just a day map with brightness turned all the way down

[bleak berry]

I suppose, but i like the pitch black. Not on every map mind you. I said it about tensatown but it applied to lonovo too because it would be the only night map i ever got.

"sure, i can enjoy this map and have fun but can i get some variety?"

But i get excited because nobody fucking picks night so it ends up being a change of pace for me

I saw night frugs recently, actually decently well lit

[strong epoch]

well

[past snow]

I'd rather not play shitty maps for variety

[strong epoch]

frugis night just isnt night

its like. late evening lol

[past snow]

I don't like frugis normally, doubt I'd like frugis night

[bleak berry]

Isle night was also bright enough you didnt need nv

[strong epoch]

im not joking. its not night, its not dark. its like the very beginning of "sunset" lol

[bleak berry]

Nv or no nv wad about the same

[strong epoch]

i was legit initially like "wait didnt night win, why is it day" before i was able to see the orange skybox first time i played "night" frugis lmao

[bleak berry]

So you dont like night maps due to them just being pitch black, at least for lonovo that is. Any other issues with lonovo?

[strong epoch]

lono is just a wet turd of a map anyway

[bleak berry]

I suppose clearing buildings can be a fucking pain in the ass

[past snow]

Lonovo in particular? The fact that you can blow up stairs leads to some annoying scenarios

[strong epoch]

nah. thats more or less fine. its the way its designed to be a clusterfuck of angle nightmare sandwhiched between two fucking horrendous spawntraps

its just a bad map

[past snow]

Once my entire squad decided to blow up the stairs of the building we were in which was looking down on C. I went on a 30+ killstreak only to stop because I ran out of ammo

[bleak berry]

Ahhh yea, alright i can agree with that. It can be kinda obnoxious

[past snow]

there really is no way you push anyone in that scenario

maybe you can spam engineer rockets to clear but then again you are left with a useless building on the map

[bleak berry]

Imo, part of the issue there is rpgs cant really destroy sandbags. Sure, blow down a wall but then a sandbag comes up and everyone is safe. Once that happens your only choice is to take the building down

[strong epoch]

heres my solution in those situations; engi > anti-vehicle mines > place 4 in the same spot > evac friendlies from building > shoot the nuclear pancake

nightnight building

[bleak berry]

Dont get me started, this shit is stupid. I can spend 20 c4 on a wooden house in tensatown without it collapsing but 2 av mines bring them down instantly

[strong epoch]

but its so fun!

[bleak berry]

Its kinda stupid...

The "i spent 20 c4" part

[strong epoch]

yeah

i dont know why it does so much to vehicles (not the intended use of C4) but sometimes almost nothing to buildings (the intended use of C4)

[past snow]

c4 explosions are wonky af

I can throw c4 on someone's face, hit them directly between the eyes and they'd still survive the explosion

[strong epoch]

explosions in general feel whacky sometimes

[bleak berry]

Because oki is a goober and wanted to give everyone a sledgehammer but better

[past snow]

meanwhile frags pass through walls to kill me

[strong epoch]

nah. its literally just an anti-vehicle grenade but better and all classes have access to it

[bleak berry]

Started happening to me recently too. I dont recal if patch notes said anything about c4

[bleak berry]

Its a sledgehammer but better because it does everything

[strong epoch]

theres a reason i have never once seen anyone actually use the anti-vehicle grenades, and that reason is C4

[bleak berry]

Anti vehicle grenades also fucking demolosh buildings too

I use them when tearing down tensatown

2-3 takes down a house

[strong epoch]

but you have to sacrifice frag grenades for em, and only engi can use em

an SMG medic can have a similar effect with C4 and still have frag grenades

[past snow]

did oki's English fail him again and he thinks vehicle means building or something?

[bleak berry]

Its because buildings dont work how most people think. Walls dont matter. Buildings actually have a healthpool but av mines do fucking nutso damage even compared to other antivehicle weapons

So basically oki wants to fuck vehicles in the ass but it just fucks his maps too

[past snow]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-nickelodeon-patrick-oops-gif-5752957

[bleak berry]

Yea idk how the math is actually done but av mines are absurd (like ragdoll into orbit absurd). The super harsh damage falloff makes it not so obvious though

And there is like reduced damage to infantry and shit too i think

[placid pollen]

oki had to have been bullied by tanks in battlefield

[placid pollen]

thats the situation im in

if you compare maps to battlefield 1 maps, bf1 had way more higher hills and nicer valleys with plenty of stuff you could take cover behind, with points usually being in a street surrounded by buildings . in this game its basically just open ground on almost any map, and you can camp almost anywhere due to the grappling hook

not to mention the maps are so big and empty, it turns into a walk simulator half the time. if the enemy team is dominating and you have a campy squad or bad squad, more often than not youll have to walk everywhere (which half the time ends up being sniped)

just now i had to sprint 3 minutes across the damn map because we cant hold a point to save our lives and my squad is nowhere

[past snow]

This is particularly noticeable on map reworks like multuislands and wine paradise. It's not even fun to snipe in these cause the same is also true for snipers. You get on an objective get 2-3 kills and now you have to run for a minute to find a new target.

[placid pollen]

or sometimes get 0 kills if youre in one of those lobbies where everyone camps in a corner with their stupid P90 that shreds anything

[vast sandal]

Map design, but mostly how the game has hard spawns and "blue zones" which let you sit somewhere safely and snipe without ever having to worry about someone sneaking up on you

[placid pollen]

i absolutely despise those, doesnt matter what game theyre in

an enemy being able to just sit somewhere and me not being able to do anything is just fucking insulting

and i despise invisible walls in rush even more

nothing like walking 1 minute to do a flank of the century only to get cockblocked by an invisible wall

[vast sandal]

For game modes like domination, most games won't have hard spawns, but will instead dynamically flip the spawns based on context. That means that sniping (and all other gameplay) require some mobility or else you will eventually be shot in the ass. The blue zones are one of the biggest facilitators of that toxic sniper gameplay that everyone hates

[vast sandal]

Yep. I don't mind a "kill zone" but I should be able to enter it and still shoot my gun for risky flanks. Even if the kill timer is like 5 seconds instead of 15. The invisible wall is dumb I agree completely

[placid pollen]

honestly, its been a bit better since the dmr buff as i can now snipe back those petty campers

it feels so good when they cant hit me and i just slap them back with two m110 rounds to the face

[vast sandal]

Eh, sniper rifles are the natural counter to Dmrs, they do let you harass the bad players Who are stationary/prone sniping though.

[placid pollen]

snipers counter to dmr?

or the other way

[vast sandal]

Snipers counter dmrs. Dmrs are counters to ARs and all shorter range weapons, but snipers out range them and have 1hko.

Only time dmr should have advantage is if the snipers are way out in the open and/or prone, but that is positioning mistake

[vagrant thistle]

idk man I've been pretty consistent with beating snipers with dmrs up to ranges of ~400m

that could just be because the average sniper is worse than the average dmr user

[placid pollen]

well, wouldnt dmrs also count as sniper counters since theyre the only weapons that can consistently snipe them back?

[wide vault]

This just illustrates how hard it is to balance sniper rifles

[bleak berry]

I argue they counter each other, it depends mostly on range and positioning. Snipers beat dmrs hands down at longer ranges but dmrs have the firerate to afford to be less precise and so can use that advantage to beat any sniper that misses a headshot on then.

this is assuming you are still hitting your shots. Dmrs are punished less for landing body shots with their faster followup

[empty ridge]

dmr's wont ever counter snipers, a hit from a sniper is still either a death sentence or close to it, meaning 2 bandages loss at a minimum if you don't want to die from the next shot
all the sniper loses from a hit is at worst a single bandage or in a headshot 2 bandages

the only way dmr's will counter snipers is if snipers get massive movement speed debuffs like extreme weapon sway or no 4x scopes for sniper rifles

another option is supression as well

other than that, you'd need to be in higher skill than the sniper to win - which is a no go as eq skill will benifit the bolt most times(as the dmr isn't as flexible to protect the dmr user to live long enough to get to a supreme positioning)

don't forget that as a dmr you are usually in a less than ideal condition and don't have the defenders advantage as snipers wont push you as much as you'd push them

imo the mk20 needs to be accessible by medics as well to counter snipe with a 3 hit kill weapon at range

another option is to supply dmr users with much more bandages(8 or 10)

[placid pollen]

or yknow, give every class more bandages. The only character that can survive more than 1 or 2 fights is still the medic

Especially when medics run around and never heal anyone except themselves

[vagrant thistle]

yeah the other classes should get 8 bandages minimum

4 is way to low

[vernal peak]

I noticed that if glint was increasing with scope zoom, the current level could be fine for the highest zoom scope. But 6x scope provides very little more zoom over 4x. With glint, it becomes quite useless.

If glint will stay in this game, I think the intensity changing with zoom level would be a huge improvement, if 6x scope will have much less glint. Hunter scope might be fine with current glint, since it's not even useful in short distances. And at long distances, even a sniper that sees it may not easily shoot you. That distance gives a reaction time for bullet traces.

[dark yew]

I'd rather see medic's ''Medic Kit'' be turned into a ''Bandage Kit'' with like 25 bandages inside
(Could also make it an alternative to the Medic Kit we have right now)

[vagrant thistle]

Meh

[dark yew]

yee id like to see 8 bandages too but man gl hunting down a support player if u dont want to constantly call in a supply drop. I always die trying to find someone that drops ammo
(lots of supports on Frontline, Conquest they're much more rare imo)

[chilly urchin]

I really liked someone's idea that scope glint gets brighter/less transparent the more directly it's on you. The range you'd see it would stay the same as it is now, but if it's not directly pointed at you it'd be a bit transparent so you may not notice it necessarily. Thought it was a neat idea.

Not realistic at all, but might be a nice change

[past snow]

Honestly if the sniper is not looking at you, you should not be seeing any glint

It just makes using glinting scopes frustrating

[chilly urchin]

Yea, I agree. Honestly it'd be nice if you were sitting in shade or something if glint didn't occur.

Reward positioning or something idk

[past snow]

No just straight up if I position in a way where I'm hard to see I should be rewarded for that, sure give a glint to the person I'm aiming at but do not give my position away to other people. After a couple of kills I'll need to reposition anyways.

just to clarify I still don't like glint but if it keeps brainlets off my back about how broken sniping is I'll take it

[chilly urchin]

I mean, it's frustrating without glint because you don't know you've got people aiming at you. Ideally the glint only affects you at long range. Issue is, people can use the 4x scopes a good distance away (300ish meters at least). This causes people to die and feel like it wasn't their fault because they thought they were safe around their teammates, or hidden from people shooting at them when there was in fact a sniper that's got a wacky angle on their team.

Would it be nice when sniping to never have to move and basically be able to farm kills for days, yes. Is it fun for everyone, no.

There's also people who've gotten really good at sniping (with the m200 mainly with it's stupid high bullet velocity) at like 800 meters away, so you really can't fight back effectively unless you're also running a sniper. They mostly take out people who are in strange spots though, and honestly that's more of a map design issue that it's even possible to go 50+ kills getting 500+ meter headshots all game.

I think as the maps get updated the sniper complaints will cease

[past snow]

The main problem is map design

Muzzle flash etc is still good enough to give your location away

But no matter what you do if you have badly designed maps something will always dominate be it snipers or smgs

[mild fern]

yeah, the maps are designed so that smg's dominate basically every area of contention due to how close everything is in those areas, and then snipers rule everywhere else

on most maps*

[past snow]

ideally a map contains every engagement range but current maps fail at this way too often

[mild fern]

yep

[past snow]

not to mention the effective ranges of weapons are a bit too long to actually balance a game with capture points

[vernal peak]

Technically, if you're exposed, you can just assume that a sniper can see you, and possibly you are a target. Glint confirms this, and shows you the aiming sniper.

But unless you will hunt that sniper, this is just too much info. If someone is a sniper hunter, it's not even a difficult thing, as far as I see. Someone just travels across areas, and shoots aiming snipers from their back. This means, giving away the position of the sniper just gives them so much disadvantage. Novice snipers end up being punished, while good snipers just shoot and move on.

The only reason I'm not saying "remove the glint" is because some people wouldn't like it.

[vernal peak]

I think it already gets a bit dimmer when you're not close to their aim, but maybe I'm wrong, or it's not enough.

So, glint changing with distance or scope magnification is the balance I'm proposing.

[past snow]

Even if that's true it's still unfair imo. I've shot snipers that were not even looking at me.

The only reason I'm not saying "remove the glint" is because some people wouldn't like it.
People will lose their shit if this happens

that's why I don't suggest it

[formal lynx]

Snipers are already extremely unpopular, having the glint be removed will cause an outrage

[mild fern]

glint definitely needs to be fixed and tuned down, idk about removed. the current situation with mid range scopes is already pretty annoying at times

[vernal peak]

Maybe things can change after the new anti cheat comes. Then, the remaining real snipers will be less of a target of complaints.

[mild fern]

that's my 2 cents, i definitely understand where you guys are coming from though. it sucks ass to find a good spot and you just shine the light of god from there so everyone can see you is dogshit gameplay

glint is part of why i don't snipe. i just cbfa

[past snow]

It's honestly just there to be a crutch for shit players

[formal lynx]

I - as someone who doesn’t hunt snipers - like the glint as an idea because I can adjust my movement to where they are looking. But as someone said, half the time they aren’t even looking at me but rather 150m to my left so now I just know there’s a sniper there without him actually having done anything to give himself away.

[past snow]

90% of snipers snipe from the same spots, it's shit easy to avoid them or hunt them

[mild fern]

this right here.

[past snow]

This should not be a thing is my point

[formal lynx]

If they made it so the glint only happens when you’re pretty close to staring eachother down, yeah, fine with that.

[past snow]

You don't hunt snipers so you don't take advantage of this. As a sniper the first thing I shoot at is the glints, so if I see someone's glint when they don't even have their scope on me is just unfair to them.

[vernal peak]

I mean, if you're on the open field, snipers may not even be your only problem. When I play at relatively CQ, I feel and act like I'm being watched almost all the time. So, I just run between covers.

[mild fern]

i think if glint was reworked to be where you have to be actually in their scope to see it, and if we had better maps, 90% of sniper complaints go away insta

some of the maps are just so fucking bad though, you're just always in view of a sniper from somewhere without enough cover

[formal lynx]

What’s the big fucking desert map?

[past snow]

sandy sunset vibes

[mild fern]

sandyyyyy

[formal lynx]

I think that one’s the worst.

[past snow]

fuck sandy

[mild fern]

it's not even like, a particularly good sniper map, but it's the most frustrating one to deal with them

[vernal peak]

It's true that a good balance to glint would solve all of my problems. I cannot complain about my inexperience anyway. Current glint is just excessive.

[formal lynx]

You’re either in SMG central or have 12 lasers from B shine on you while you’re at F.

[past snow]

as a player that almost exclusively plays sniper I skip sandy

[formal lynx]

Sandy is so awful.

[mild fern]

other than some mode/map combinations like 127 frontline valley where snipers can sit in safezone under one of the wind mills and kill people trying to push for like 3 fucking objectives in a row

[mild fern]

i don't blame you, but speaking from 127 frontline sandy, the moment you push out of mid map the game just turns into the recon WALL and you either juke hard enough to push through it somehow or the game stalemates

[vernal peak]

Once, I was playing half AFK sniper on Sandysunset. Nobody killed me for a long time, while I occasionally got kills with weak suppressor.

[formal lynx]

That’s honestly a serious design problem. The safe zone is so bad on some maps because you just have Tanks playing American Sniper from 800m away

[mild fern]

yeah, again it's pretty mode/map specific. thank god frontline doesn't have vehicles

[formal lynx]

The same applies to actual snipers. You can’t really do anything about them other than outsnipe them. But that doesn’t matter because it’s their bloody spawn so you can’t defend or contest the position

[vernal peak]

Community servers felt like a medicine. Just open a sniper-only server, and the game is being played very differently.

Of course, it isn't a substitute to good community servers.

[formal lynx]

I have people actively sabotaging me for playing Recon

[mild fern]

where's the no recons community server? sorry not sorry

[formal lynx]

[vernal peak]

Sure, that's also a thing, I believe 😄

My friend was asking the same

I was recommending "drones only" servers to him 🤣

Edit: His problems was snipers, not recons. He is a drone and explosives fan.

[formal lynx]

But yeah glint needs to be looked at. Have intensity be based off of zoom level and distance or whatever, so that my dumbass 6x scope from 400m doesn’t shine like a fucking floodlight

I have no issue with snipers, when they getcha, they getcha. Rarely do I get shot by a sniper while playing medic and go “well that was bullshit.”

But then there’s this weird decision to punish them for existing, maybe they found a cool spot to snipe from - no fuck you signal your location to anyone glancing in your general direction while you’re looking 100m away from them.

Snipers should be punished for missing their shots, not for simply trying to set them up.

Fuck, if you wanna go that route, turn on the glint temporarily after a sniper fired their shot, then turn it off again.

[vernal peak]

And especially in this game, where enemies are not too difficult to see.

You can see a sniper without glint, sometimes

[formal lynx]

Skylining is huge in this game

[mild fern]

actually wait this is kind of a good idea

[past snow]

And the movement is so broken hitting running people in the head is quite inconsistent

[mild fern]

like hold on bois. wait a second

don't just fucking move past that

[past snow]

This is just muzzle flash

[formal lynx]

Yesn’t

[vernal peak]

There are also bullet traces. We are all using tracer rounds, for some reason 🤔

[formal lynx]

If the sniper missed an unaware and the player has any amount of spatial awareness, they’ll turn to look where it came from. They’ll see a short glint, knowing that there is now a sniper. Muzzle flash helps if you’re already looking in their direction, tracers help with the general direction but not always pinpoint it

It’s a Hail Mary idea but anything to not punish snipers for simply… being snipers.

[past snow]

the glint angle is critical here though

I wouldn't want to be seen by people I was not shooting at

just because they happened to look towards my general location

that's why I like muzzle flash more than this

[formal lynx]

Yes, combine it with an FOV check to see if you’re like.. staring at eachother

Because yeah even on medic it sometimes feels dumb as fuck to see the glint when I can see the tracers going to god knows where but definitely not towards me

[bleak berry]

I will repeat what i said earlier in this thread before...

what glint?

90% of snipers use mediums now with only newbies amd the ocasional excentric using the stronger ones

So imo, you probably can get away with removing it from strong scopes now because most players wouldnt even notice

[formal lynx]

I mean yeah. 4x are more than enough in ranges that I’d deem “effective”. Honestly sniping from further than… 500m is a bit excessive.

[bleak berry]

Do a prank patch and silently remove it and lets see how many notice 😛

[formal lynx]

Jokes on you my severe paranoia makes me think that my own tracers are that of the enemy

I would definitely notice

[bleak berry]

I have definitely scared myself with my own tracers a few times

[bleak berry]

Right now, the sweet spot is 200m+ after the lmg buff. Support can now effectively duel marksmen who are under 200m very reliably and can also succeed at 200m with a bit of luck or on an exposed target

[formal lynx]

Just pistol snipe

But yeah I’ve been able to challenge snipers with my DMR skills and they couldn’t really do anything about it because they had 0 way to spot me

[heady bolt]

@formal lynx has earned the Tier I Member role!

[formal lynx]

So that was kinda silly

Omg

I’m piss club now

[remote tree]

if your piss is that color, see a doctor

[desert bison]

If you think pee in that color is bad, see an eye doctor, you might be colorblind.

[formal lynx]

Feedback - Piss

[sonic anchor]

🥛

i won't elaborate

[novel yew]

are you talking about snipers with a glint??

because imo those aren't real snipers, the glint was just a dumb way to try to nerf sniping, and no one that know what they are doing uses a glint (unless they need the 15 kills to get a medium scope on that sniper figle or sandysunset and they want to get a personal record at 1.500m or something). You could remove long range scopes entirely and that would be a buff to snipers, allowing them to use medium scopes from the begining and allowing players trying the weapon class for the first time get the right feel for it, instead of having to get 15 kills while having a big ''I am here'' light on them. They are just useless.

I main sniper, and really gave DMRs a chance after the update, but there is no comparision really, I still prefer a one headshot bolt action, that I can totally play with a silencer, making my position less noticeable, and a glock for that one situation where a semi-auto would be better than a bolt.

Maybe I can see a different playing style being a reason to play DMR over a blot action, but as long as the map design, the player movement speed and the utte chaos most games are with lack of a clear frontline, I prefer to be well hidden getting one kill per bullet over making my self noticeable needing 2-3 bullets for a kill at best.

[formal lynx]

I like to play DMR as a more movement intensive sniper, able to easily rotate and always finding a good angle on objectives and key chokes.

[mild fern]

my friend likes to use dmr to rush the frontline and outgun people

[formal lynx]

As a sniper I rarely move, as a Marksman I change angles every few minutes as needed.

[formal lynx]

Works too.

Just slap a red dot top sight and it’s still pretty ok in CQC

As long as you get the first hit

[wanton burrow]

honestly i just hope they give more velocity to every sniper that isn't the m200 cause the mk20 is just the awp but better

[strong epoch]

i feel like SSG69 and SV98 could both do with a 100 velocity increase (or at least the SSG. 900 velocity is a fucking joke with hitreg, and hitreg isnt going to improve since theyre slowly and quietly killing off official servers). And perhaps buff their bolting speed as well, to keep them from being entirely overshadowed by the later rifles

and for fuck sake do something with the MSR. IMO, its the coolest sniper of the bunch. but it downright sucks shit. its easily the worst sniper. You move slow as fuck with it, but you only 5 rounds per mag with it, but it also reloads slow as fuck (not even joking, MSR + bipod + extendomag is the second slowest reload, behind only the M249 + bipod. its really dumb). But it does... less damage than the L96? Feels like oki just gave the fuck up on the MSR halfway through making its stats and just expected no one to notice?

[wanton burrow]

yeah i wanted to like the msr but holy smokes the running speed and damage

[chilly urchin]

I would prefer they lower the rate of fire more on the m200 as well. The thing is just kind of the best sniper for most sniper situations it feels like.

[strong epoch]

yeah. the damage is what really gets me tbh. To be entirely honest, I think the reload speed and running speed would be fine, if the thing had another 100 velocity and did more like 68 or 69 damage, with more L and H armour damage. that would set it apart as a significantly different rifle than any of the other snipers. Would be a slow rifle with a slow reload and not much in the way of total ammo capacity, but it would hit hard (without the overkill M200 velocity ;) and would be especially effective against humvees and birds. a niche totally its own. the other snipers have plenty of coverage over all the niches you can imagine for infantry sniping, give the MSR a bit of anti-material capabilities. it already has the sounds to back it up

[strong epoch]

yeah. i think the firerate on the L96 AND M200 needs to be brought down, but especially the m200. it needs to be the slowest bolting, and not by just a tiny bit

[wanton burrow]

nuh uh do not kill my awp

just buff every sniper that isn't the m200 cause like if you wanna use anything else you go with the l96

very limited sniper picks

[strong epoch]

l96 needs a fire-rate buff. just nowhere near as large a buff as the M200 needs

just a small one

even from the perspective of a sniper, its just too easy to 2-tap people at 500m. by the time they can get up and get to cover, ive already put a second shot through their left nipple

[wanton burrow]

yeah m200 kinda blows i hope they buff the velocity to 1700 too

[strong epoch]

FUCK

NERF

NERF IT DONT BUFF IT

PLEASE DONT BUFF IT

my heart just stopped

[wanton burrow]

buff awp and make every other sniper extinct

awp supremacy

[strong epoch]

MSR is just the L96 but relevant

L96 is an old man, get the hell out of here old man

your dentures might fall out

[wanton burrow]

is the msr modern

[strong epoch]

significantly moreso than the AWM

(for the record, i love the AWM)

[wanton burrow]

i like the old man a lot because i do worse with the m200

[strong epoch]

(but the MSR shoots the same calibre in a more modern package)

[wanton burrow]

i also like running fast

[strong epoch]

use a DMR

or hell

use the SSG

dont sleep on the SSG

[wanton burrow]

i love dmrs

ssg is for dummies

[strong epoch]

nope

[wanton burrow]

mk20!!

[strong epoch]

i have more kills on the SSG than the L96

[wanton burrow]

i have more kills on the l96 than every other gun that isn’t mk20 or svd

[strong epoch]

suppressor + burris + C Bolt + rangefinder for the SSG

[wanton burrow]

i love my 1.05 running speed

[strong epoch]

yeah but the L96 has sort of the same problem as the R700. even suppressed, its quite audible

SSG is dead quiet

[wanton burrow]

sv-98 is also super quiet

[strong epoch]

but you dont get that runspeed

[wanton burrow]

silenced awp to me is quite quiet

ye

[strong epoch]

nah, i once upon a time thought L96 was quiet. then i noticed i could still hear silenced L96s

[wanton burrow]

you’re dissing my baby so i hate you

[strong epoch]

they have the same sort of disctinctive chirp as the R700, but not as loudly as the R700

[wanton burrow]

rem700 sounds so :)

just

comes at the cost of loud

[strong epoch]

yeah. unsupressed it sounds... well, better than the MSR. which is a really high bar

but supressed... id rather stub my toe on a landmine lol

btw, for the 10-rnd mag on both rifles, the same build across both of them yields a 0.97 run speed on the SSG compared to only 0.92 on the L96 :)

[wanton burrow]

this is why short mag is the best mag for the l96

[strong epoch]

but then you have almost the same lack of total ammo as the MSR

and i can tell you confidently that 6rnd vs 10rnd is definitely where i would draw the line for light vs normal armour

three 10-rnd mags is fine, but i would tend to say its not enough with only 6 rnds

[wanton burrow]

i have 6 mags with 6 rounds

i am fine with this

[strong epoch]

but then youre not running the light armour

[wanton burrow]

nup

[strong epoch]

for the additional speeeeed

[wanton burrow]

i like speed but i like defense too

[strong epoch]

im about to blow your mind

[wanton burrow]

ever since using base m200 i have detested guns with slow running speeds

[strong epoch]

they both have the same durability :)

[wanton burrow]

fake and false

ban this guy for misinformation

[wanton burrow]

oh yeah that was why i wanted more mags

yeah i just like having more mags

i also die before i use up all my mags (usually)

[strong epoch]

i wonder what yields the highest net runspeed; l96 shortmag with normal armour or ssg with light armour?

imma get someone to test that with me

[wanton burrow]

the short mag also has the draw speed advantage so

[strong epoch]

would be relevant for literally anything other than sniper rifles lol

[wanton burrow]

IT IS RELEVANT FOR POT SHOTS AND MOVING

i play it like phantom forces

[strong epoch]

LOL

okay maybe i can relate to that a small large amount

also, in my humble opinion, L96 is way better used with the extended mag

[wanton burrow]

if all snipers had 1 shot capabilities up to 5 meters i would be killing every person ever

[strong epoch]

you get a stupid amount of total ammo and you can take oodles of shots at helis before reloading

[wanton burrow]

i mean maybe but i like the draw speed

[strong epoch]

me and my 18k AWM kills on PF

[wanton burrow]

it saved my life o-

18K???

[strong epoch]

18k

[wanton burrow]

HOLY SMOKES

[strong epoch]

i have 19k on the RGO impact grenade tho

[wanton burrow]

i use all the snipers so i got an even spread of 500-2k kills on them

they are so fun

also the insta kill impact is funny

[strong epoch]

yeah. i think ive got 10k or so on hecate-

GASP

WE WANT HECATE

HECATE OR RIOT

[wanton burrow]

my brother what rank are you

[strong epoch]

200 something

[wanton burrow]

that explains it

[strong epoch]

also former-double now single-record holder

but thats neither here nor there

hecate or riot

[wanton burrow]

vanillaoreocat alt

[strong epoch]

i dont care if it is slower than an LMG

[wanton burrow]

hecate would be super cool

[strong epoch]

i want the big baguette

the B in BMG stands for baguette

[wanton burrow]

imagine a lightweight sniper rifle that does 40 damage bodyshots and insta kills headshots (wink wink steyr scout)

[strong epoch]

i would quit

[wanton burrow]

i would be the dirtiest rat

[strong epoch]

you would be the target of every single RPG in the server

[wanton burrow]

i have experienced that

and the m110

...

the m110....

[strong epoch]

yeeah...

i dont know why everyone is so surprised by the DMRs feeling overtuned now

[wanton burrow]

m110 is overtuned in damage now cause limbs don't take 0.9x damage

you just avoid the armor and you win

[strong epoch]

i saw it coming a mile away, and even mentioned it; DMRs needed a damage and velocity buff

but adding a recoil buff on top of that was too much

[wanton burrow]

nuh i'm for all the changes on the other 3 dmrs

mk20 is the better awp

[strong epoch]

well, 2 of the other DMRs arent DMRs

[wanton burrow]

ebr

battle rifle

[strong epoch]

one is literally a battle rifle and the other is a battle rifle wannabe

[wanton burrow]

is the mk20 not a dmr

[strong epoch]

but doesnt have full auto so its just in a weird place

nah the SVD

[wanton burrow]

SVD

[strong epoch]

dunno why they did that

[wanton burrow]

IS A DMR!!!

[strong epoch]

EXCEPT NOT ANYMORE

[wanton burrow]

it can be used as a sniper though

[strong epoch]

40 damage my ass

same thing they did with the MG36

[wanton burrow]

41 damage

[strong epoch]

past a certain point, why even call it the MG36 (or SVD)

it doesnt behave anything like the gun its named and modeled after

SVD hits hard and kicks hard. the game does the total opposite and its so underwhelming when you unlock it for the very first time

you see SVD and think "thisll probably be the highest damage of the bunch"

HAH

[wanton burrow]

yeah kinda odd

very different from the svd in every other game ever

[strong epoch]

and also IRL

[wanton burrow]

yep

[strong epoch]

no one on this discord ever goes off-topic

literally ever

[wanton burrow]

i go off topic often

[strong epoch]

smae

same*

fuck

[chilly urchin]

Guiez plz keep discussions to nerfing the m200, thanks

[chilly urchin]

I think he m110 is in a fantastic place. I need to play around with the others more, but it specifically feels like what I expect a dmr to be. I'd say the only change it might need is it's damage dropoff adjusted a bit

[strong epoch]

i think its in a great place too, but i also feel like its slightly overtuned. only slightly, and im not sure its something that can be helped anyway

[chilly urchin]

It loses pretty easily up close, and good snipers can fight back at longer ranges. You have to play pretty careful with it. Idk, I think it's fun lol.

[strong epoch]

it loses easily, but also wins just as easily. its hypersituational. hence only slightly overtuned

honestly, might just be more accurate to say its extremely tuned

its not overpowered, just powerful as fuck lol

[chilly urchin]

The m200 on the other hand is just baby mode for sniping. Either all snipers need to be baby mode, or baby mode needs some drawbacks.

I wouldn't say it's (the m110 now) hyper situational. You just need to position yourself in the right place for it usually. I think it's in a great place. Honestly it'd be nice if every other dmr could be as usable and useful, but I need to experiment more I before making judgements on em all

It dominates a lot more on modes like Frontline and rush where you have a firm Frontline. Or maps where you can set up and watch an area easy

[balmy oar]

buff dmrs

theyre just ass across the board and are all outdone by the scar

[empty ridge]

mmm but what can you do?

the m110 is a 2hk, the rest are 3hk

maybe if you would be able to ohk other snipers... but not everyone else turning this into a counter sniper class

or if it won't have a glint unlike the bolts with 6x or higher

and give glint to any 4x on bolts or higher

this would make it a balanced choice between lethality and mobility

[past snow]

idk why this shitty idea keeps coming up, they gave increased muzzle flash instead of this. Glint is not a detriment, it's a disability. Before suggesting even more glint it needs to be fixed first.

[upbeat fable]

I agree Glint needs to be fixed i agree on the stupid powerful scopes but on a 6x it's a bit insane. And to be honest at this point everyone has go so good with the 4x that Glint is kinda redundant. It's more of a hey your new to using this gun so your first XX amount of kills will be a ball ache. Then you can get a $x and do decent with it.

[past snow]

Just as someone else mentioned, if they stealth remove glint people will not realize it. Literally nothing would change if you remove glint and not tell anyone. It's one of the laziest balancing tools out there and in BBR it's so badly implemented people would rather use 4x scopes to snipe at 800m rather than playing around it. Yet people keep suggesting glint on medium range scopes as if they play sniper once in a blue moon.

[empty ridge]

how much pixels do you see at 800m away from a sniper? how much grass does the sniper see around you as well?

if you go prone on some grass and try to look for him without a glint, will you see him? or will he see you?

and remind me, why do bolt bullets have a magical powers? like not losing any dmg over distance and keeping its one hit kill ability even after its supposed to lose velocity but the rest of the guns same bullets don't?
yeah the m200 makes sense, but the rest? give me a break with your shitty ass statements that their only purpose is to keep the magical bullets bolts in their special place where nothing is supposed to go against them beside other sniper rifles

if dmr's won't counter bolts, then what do?

so stop pretending to be dumb and claim that there isn't single problem with bolts as is

[sonic anchor]

rpgs

[past snow]

Idk how you read my second post but missed the point so much. The 800m 4x thing is not a fun experience for the sniper either. You hardly see anything yet since the glint is so fucking broken you take straining your eyes over having a glint. Next time before guessing what the purpose of people's statements are read what they said better.

Acting like snipers are the only things with "magical powers" is just dumb. What other gun class loses velocity/is subject to friction? What about the instant acceleration on sprint? What about rpgs? Acting like snipers are broken is pretending to be dumb.

Even suggesting glint being the only way to see snipers is disingenuous, if the player models are big enough to allow sniping at 800m other people can easily see snipers at lower ranges which they usually play at because how maps actually are. Acting like the current glint system is in any way good is just delusional. It's not a warning for the sniper's targets, it's a fucking lighthouse for everyone on the map.

[peak crow]

I agree with Sigma, snipers are NOT broken

[empty ridge]

they all are, they all lose their damage, some from the first 10m
most weapons from the ar category can be used as a half a sniper rifle due to their high precision like the m4 and such

• so your 2nd point is obsolete

most smg's with almost no recoil at all got a massive disability like the scorpionEVO - would you like to see it without its disability in the game?

-- point 3 is gone, disabilities are a balancing act

yeah, about point 1, it is a miserable experience
but how does it feel that only and only other sniper rifles can take you out, what will i do with a scar with 10 dmg for a bullet?
the other option is to keep the experience miserable for everyone else beside snipers great job

you have a canted for a reason, use it

and don't tell me that you cannot hit shit with a 4x, i've got multiple 600m kills with the m4

1x

with the freaking 1x

if you can't see anything with the 4x, then you should get closer

because if i can at 600, then you should with a freaking 4x at 800

[past snow]

Losing damage is not the same as losing velocity... Replying to one of the points badly does not make it obsolete. Snipers do have disabilities, lower movement speed and aim punch makes you defenceless close range.

I agree with damage ramp up being dumb but be honest it rarely plays into sniper gameplay

[empty ridge]

worst is 0.81/0.83 boohoo, take out your pistol

[past snow]

so you one shot somebody at 1000m cool, you are never hitting a medic at 1000m though

[past snow]

ah yes pistol vs smg means snipers are good at close range

[empty ridge]

suddenly you can run normally

[past snow]

the point is class is strongest when they are at long range

stop acting like they are the best all around class

[empty ridge]

your point would be valid if you'd run the m200 constantly at close range

they are not, they are the only ones that can take everyone out at their range but nobody else can light them up

a diode gameplay basically

[past snow]

man that's like snipers in every single game

[empty ridge]

that's the problem

[past snow]

with no inertia you just need to fucking move

[empty ridge]

diode gameplay

[past snow]

it's not that hard

[empty ridge]

ah yeah, the just move argument, its not like there are like 10 20 more out there that can prob see you beside him

nah

[past snow]

it's just simple area denial, literally every single fps game that's like BBR has them

[empty ridge]

its a complete area denial with no counters

[past snow]

tell me you have never played sniper without telling me

[empty ridge]

ok, do tell me then
what counters them beside other snipers?

[past snow]

at what range?

[empty ridge]

300m and up

[past snow]

if I'm attacking a point people can rush me, some weapons can just straight up kill me

[empty ridge]

300m, don't run from this

[past snow]

300-400m is dmrs and movement

longer than that it's just movement

my guy you are acting like I'm the one dodging shit

your initial argument is shit

[empty ridge]

what a joke, at 300m dmr's counter you ahahhaa

[past snow]

I provided multiple points and you answered them half assedly and just moved on with hurr durr I kill at 600m

[empty ridge]

then why aren't you using dmr's instead of bolts as most engagements are at that range?

[past snow]

I don't enjoy dmrs

simple as that

[empty ridge]

interesting why is that

[past snow]

2 shot to the body with high fire rate is honestly oppresive at that range

[empty ridge]

maybe... maybe...

[past snow]

I don't like how dmrs play lmao I enjoy the bolt sound

[empty ridge]

there is an argument why people abuse them as much?...

[past snow]

Stop being a fucking clown and acting like I'm trying to gaslight you

[empty ridge]

and then say that they only enjoy them?

[past snow]

Mate... I'm like one of the few people you'll see that plays with a bolt action like 95% of the time

[empty ridge]

mate i've seen hundreds like you in planetside 2
players with horrible stats all around that claim that snipers are fine
same arguments always

nothing changes

[past snow]

I've also seen a bunch of clowns like you here

[empty ridge]

i only enjoy snipers, they are fine
having 0ttk is fine
they are balanced due to low movement speed, dmr's counter them(even when those dmr's took 8 shots to kill them)

[past snow]

just players that get killed by snipers a bunch then cry about it cause it can't be that they are just clueless

[empty ridge]

same argument regardless of the game

[past snow]

what dmr kills in 8 shots?

[empty ridge]

250 dmg ones against snipers with 0.34x dmg multiplier armor

plus armor up stats, and cloak

guess what? they had the same argument as you

[past snow]

I'm sorry is this the fucking planetside 2 discord?

[empty ridge]

nah, but you're the same

1 2 1

[past snow]

Did you get mad that your arguments are shit so you need to strawman me with planetside 2 arguments?

[empty ridge]

the argument is the same, the intent is the same, the "i only like bolts" is the same, dmr's counter them is the same
the dmg argument is the same
the disability for bolts is bad is the same but for any other gun is fine is the same

same same same

new name

[past snow]

You don't know my intent

you just assumed it

you have serious problems if you can't engage with the person in front of you but you engage with the idea of them inside your head instead

[empty ridge]

same argument as them, always
strawmanning you, but you all answer as if from the same page

[past snow]

I'm not the snipers that apparently destroyed in planetside or some shit

not even going to deny the strawmanning bit huh

fucking yikes

[empty ridge]

anyway talking to the same bots is kinda repulsive, cya

[past snow]

yea talking to a dumbass schizo with severe skill issues is not fun either

[empty ridge]

nah, i didn't give you a strawman
you decided it is, i gave you a variety yet you stuck to one of the 3 points... which was it - ah yeah

a strawman

[past snow]

strawmanning you, but you all answer as if from the same page
so I'm blind

[empty ridge]

the "strawmanning you" was about your argument

[past snow]

man you didn't even try to argue with me

[empty ridge]

the answer you gave

[past snow]

you argued with planetside snipers

[empty ridge]

that was about this bit

[past snow]

cause you cannot for the life of you engage with counter arguments

[empty ridge]

a classic

yeah, well your argument so far was a one sided diode basically is fine

[past snow]

[empty ridge]

was it not?

[past snow]

you literally have no idea what game design is like it seems

oh wow certain weapons have certain ranges where they outclass other shit WOW

[empty ridge]

by how much do smg's outclass ar's at 5m and at 50m?

[past snow]

you even claimed that sniper bullets didn't slow down but other weapons did lmao

[empty ridge]

i get a 1:1 against smg's with an ar at 5m

i wonder, what do the rest of the guns get at 500m against bolts

and what do dmr's get at 100m or so against bolts

[past snow]

I hope you get the help you need mate

[empty ridge]

yeah sure

[past snow]

Honestly

[empty ridge]

you're not even trying to go against the diode argument

some guns are better at certain ranges, but by how much is the key here

[past snow]

I'm not arguing with you rn, not after you strawmanned the shit out of my arguments and started arguing with planetside 2 snipers

[empty ridge]

uhu

cya bot

[past snow]

that's the second cya

wonder how many cyas we will get before you finally stop pretending that you are not an idiot

[cobalt gazelle]

Opinion:
bolt rifles should be more niche
The problem is that they're designed to be long range death, but used at much longer ranges than they are ingame. DMRs should fill the role they're usually put into right now.
But there's very little way to make them engaging on both sides.
all you know is "sniper!" and then you duck. Maybe toss smoke if you have it.

It might be better if you could carry a mix of grenades, but...

[past snow]

To be fair nearly every single weapon is used at longer ranges than they are in game, this is true for almost any fps out there. Trying to make bolt actions actually niche will just kill sniping since for a lot of people it's just not the same with dmrs.

Sniper gameplay by its nature is very hard to make engaging for both sides. You are either so far away from the sniper where you can't touch them or you are close enough where the sniper is just a free kill. Mid range works in the sense that you can challenge snipers with the appropriate weapons but that's still not enough for some people. That's why the main factor that decides whether snipers are frustrating or not is map design (if you think about it this is also the case for other weapons as well, just maybe not to the same extent).

[mild fern]

i'm not really even sold on the dmr buffs, seems like so many more people are just using them to sit in windows and barely peek out

even the 3 shot kill ones you typically die before you can move

[bleak mantle]

Wait wait people are using designated marksman rifles to play like marksmen???? What in the world

[past snow]

The horror

[mild fern]

it's less punishing than a sniper for not hitting hs

snipers are annoying because they miss a headshot and hit the body and now you have to hide, bandage, heal, before moving

dmr's hit 3 body shots and you're dead before you can change directions

[bleak mantle]

Yeah that’s the idea. You get a higher volume of fire as a trade off for the lower damage, range, and lack of one-shot kill.

[mild fern]

idk, don't find it fun to not be able to move around city maps because there's 4 people in every building barely visible but w/e

[past snow]

and this is why dmrs are harder to balance than snipers imo

[bleak mantle]

I don’t think that’s the case at all ngl

[past snow]

when they are good they can easily become oppressive

[bleak mantle]

Snipers can be an issue because of the extreme range and the ohk

Wait wait

I misread that

Never mind

I do think dmrs are in a great spot right now though

They feel oppressive at the moment because everyone wants to try them out after the buffs

The issue isn’t the guns themselves it’s the amount of people using them at the moment

[past snow]

And most likely, the maps they are being used on

[mild fern]

you prolly right, lonovo feels awful rn tho

[bleak mantle]

Oh god lonovo

Yeah

Yeah that sounds fucking rough lol

[past snow]

imagine sandy's city parts or frugis 💀

[mild fern]

frugis oddly hasn't been that bad

not sure if that was enemy skill issue or just nobody using them

but the first lonovo day i've played in weeks was just dmr's everywhere

walk out a door? dmr crossfire

try to flank dmr crossfire? dmr crossfire

[past snow]

frugis does have narrower streets, that with low amount of dmrs might be the reason

[bleak mantle]

Frugis is just way too crazy with its layout for dmrs to be crazy good there. Dmrs are my favorite but I almost always use something else on frugis

[bleak berry]

At 300m i can win against a sniper using an ultimax. It depends on how exposed he is (Only head or is full body visible? Prone or standing?)

[sly wedge]

I’ve been thinking and honestly would anyone be opposed to the m200 having a longer rechamber time to make up for how oppressive the thing is in almost every map? It would be nice if you sacrificed rechamber time for damage that way the snipers you start off with would be more viable in close quarts because they can shoot faster, but the ones that have the potential to one shot head (on armor*) will require you to hit your target on the first shot, otherwise you’ll have them running into cover to avoid your rounds. Maybe even having the big ask of making stronger snipers have louder sounds for their rounds wizzing past you that way it penalizes missing your mark.

[past snow]

That's like standard practice outside of this game. The better the sniper is at range, the lower its fire rate is. I feel like the game currently is not using fire rate enough to differentiate/balance snipers enough.

Also I'd like to add that the first sniper you get should be an all-rounder, the later snipers you unlock should be more specialized versions/side-grades. This way you don't fuck over new players while giving meaningful progression to sniper rifles.

[strong epoch]

ye. as an SSG fanboy (self-proclaimed) I agree the SSG should be a bit more better as a general-use sniper. 1050 velocity, small fire-rate buff (or even just get rid of the reticle shake while ADS-bolting. its absurdly stupid), let it zero out to 1000m, and perhaps a smidgen increase to damage. right now its just a lame, albeit fun, duckling of the bunch

[past snow]

Max zero being weapon dependent is just so dumb

[strong epoch]

aye, but honestly id rather not shovel even more coal onto the "remove zeroing" fire lol

the less fuel that one-sided argument has the better

[wide oriole]

yeah everything getting zeroing in 50m steps would be great

[strong epoch]

yeah. at least having a consistent 50m interval all the way up the range would be nice. especially with things like the SSG and SV98, where their velocity is low enough that 100m intervals is literally too large lol

[wide oriole]

and markers in some of the mid range scopes that help for 1000+

[strong epoch]

ye. if long range scopes are doomed to stay as "the 'option' that no one opts for", then at least give us some medium scopes with graduated reticles. and no, the ACOG is not a good option, because chevron reticles are dogshit for precision shooting at range lol

[wide oriole]

well they could work if they were correctly ranged

[strong epoch]

eh, even then simple cross reticles will always be better. less obfuscation of the target, which in-turn allows for easier and/or faster target acquisition

though i would imagine that a large reason is that chevron reticles in video games are quite a bit larger than they are IRL, so as to be more user-friendly.

[bleak mantle]

The chevron is my favorite because it’s so precise lol but if you need to calculate drop it’s not as good for sure

[strong epoch]

yep, and ive been using the SSG

so uh. there is only drop

though ive never vibed with chevrons no matter how many different games i try them in

i guess my brain is faulty lmao

[chilly urchin]

The chevron in this game is stupid thick, so I don't like it very much

[strong epoch]

yeah that it is. if it were small and less kardashian-y then id probably vibe with it honestly

[bleak mantle]

Chevron is always my favorite lol so that’ preference is definitely part of it.

[past snow]

Chevron is iconic

[balmy oar]

Mixing grenade types or even removing them entirely in order to carry extra magazines should be a thing.

[cobalt gazelle]

Maybe we should get a slot based system?

[remote tree]

A weight system would be neat tbh

EG, an engy with an rpg might choose to take a carbine or even smg to make up for the weight

[wanton burrow]

if the ssg had a faster fire rate and slightly higher velocity it'd be such a banger infantry sniper

[strong epoch]

honestly, it already is a banger at picking off the careless fool who dares to stand still in my sights

[wanton burrow]

my l96 is more of a banger 🙂

[strong epoch]

but it gets fucked by the games batshit-crazy high movement speed and super jerky, janky movement animations

[wanton burrow]

smg users

[strong epoch]

mostly because of its really low velocity

[strong epoch]

are you trying to flare up my PTSD

[wanton burrow]

it does make me wish every other class moved at least like

4 points fasters

[strong epoch]

fuck no

[wanton burrow]

i fucking HATE smg speed

[strong epoch]

fuck no, movement speed needs to be brought down across the entire game

no brought up to match smgs

[wanton burrow]

nerf smg speed or buff everyone else

i do not wish to fight cod kids playing the game like a movement shooter

[strong epoch]

using buffs in the place of nerfs is why the game feels way more chaotic after the "medic nerf"

because the issue was that medics could self heal, not necessarily that everyone else couldnt

and, now that everyone can, you get fewer medics actually medic'ing and healing people

[wanton burrow]

i get rez'd and then i don't get healed

buncha dweebazoid medics

[strong epoch]

yep

and i bet you wouldnt even slightly doubt it when i tell you that Oki is an smg medic

[wanton burrow]

yeah i believe you

[strong epoch]

i dont want to believe me

[wanton burrow]

smg medics are so ANNOPY I UI HNG

ARAHR AH RHA I AM NOT AN AUTO RIFLE USER

I DETEST THOSE GUNS IN EVERY GAME

[strong epoch]

yep. people bitch and moan about muzzle vel being too high for snipers

but uh, medics run at like 20 fucking miles per hour

thats way faster than an IRL human, while most sniper muzzle velocities are only a bit faster than their IRL counterparts

[wanton burrow]

smg medics in the battlebit lore are all descendants of usain bolt

[strong epoch]

it leads to sniping being something you just dont bother on moving targets, thus you also have absolutely nothing to lose by moving way further back. youre not going to be taking many if any shots at those fast fuckers anyway, its only safer with zero-risk if you move back a tonne

[wanton burrow]

this is again why mk20 is awesome because i take more shots on those little goblins running around

[strong epoch]

yep. DMR changes are just another way oki has slung literal shite onto sniper rifles

[wanton burrow]

yeah which is a prime reason i would hope for a velocity or firerate buff for the snipers

battlebit wiki says the l96 has an rpm of 37 and i’m like “damn that’s slow”

that or the bolt action speed needs to implemented so it actually affects something

[strong epoch]

i think the in-game RPM for snipers feels faster than whatever its numerical value actually is because it often takes longer to line up your next shot anyway

[wanton burrow]

well i got no clue if that’s true or not but if it’s not the m200 the other snipers need 5 extra rpm

[strong epoch]

after thinking about it for a bit (i saw that number a day or two ago actually), 37 doesnt surprise me as much as it initially did. it already feels dirty with how quickly i can line up shots on enemies at 500m because hooray insta-animations moving their head 5 feet the moment before my bullet enters their brain, and actually hit the second shot

L96 should probably remain the fastest bolting sniper or keep its 1100 velocity. but both? it seems a bit much, and would not leave enough breathing room for the other rifles

[wanton burrow]

i’d be fine with keeping the sniper as is while making every other one that has lower velocity shoot an extra 3rpm faster for every 50 less velocity every sniper has in base form

[strong epoch]

but then you start treading on DMR territory

[wanton burrow]

i don’t think a max of like 58rpm will tread onto dmrs

they got the 300rpm minimum

[strong epoch]

but also cant 1stk

[wanton burrow]

ye

[strong epoch]

and have quite a damn lot of hori recoil

[wanton burrow]

they can all two shot though if you hit headshots with the non m110 dmrs

yeah nah svd and mk20 do not have a lot of hori

i barely remember the ebr

[strong epoch]

true. i guess the M110 is the only DMR that does enough damage to be worthy of being compared to snipers on a single-shot basis

m110 is the m200 of DMRs lol

[wanton burrow]

it’s like two sniper shots to the body

hate it

limb multiplier oughta be in

[strong epoch]

(and hey, surprise surprise the M110 Sass is a fucking sniper rifle)

[wanton burrow]

SASS

[strong epoch]

yup

semi auto SNIPER system

its not the M110 SAMS, Semi auto marksman system

[wanton burrow]

semi auto snipers would be the end of the world in battlebit

[strong epoch]

but hey, oki flippantly threw the M200 bolt action anti-material sniper rifle into the same boat as a fucking .243 sniper rifle (ssg) so i guess the new M110 performance isnt all that shocking

[wanton burrow]

i think oki likes the letter M

[strong epoch]

like tbh, bring walk speed and RPM way down and the M200 would make for an excellent entry level rifle for a different gun category

anti material rifles

[wanton burrow]

kill walk speed and rpm for MORE BODY SHOT DAMAGE AHAHAHA

i’d be down for that

armor damage too

[strong epoch]

nah, just increase vehicle damage

[wanton burrow]

if it can kill vehicles why not make the body shot damage reflect that too

[strong epoch]

its a video game, tbh

[wanton burrow]

is that why the svd is a fake svd

[strong epoch]

nah, thats just Oki being Oki

[wanton burrow]

og

h

[strong epoch]

same thing with the MG36

[wanton burrow]

yeah and the aug having ssg velocity

silly oki

[chilly urchin]

The aug do be silly, but I like it

It makes the game actually interesting to play lol

[wanton burrow]

aug was my favorite non sniper pre dmr buff

[strong epoch]

what is the MG36? its almost literally a G36 with a bigger mag and longer barrel. literally. so, why does the MG36 ingame have a different fucking RPM? WHO KNOWS

nah i like the aug as it is

[chilly urchin]

That is why I suggest they add the usas with frag rounds

[wanton burrow]

i still like but i like-

[chilly urchin]

As the only shotgun

[wanton burrow]

USAS???

SHOTYNFS

[strong epoch]

no please

[chilly urchin]

Let it 5 tap helis

[strong epoch]

id rather they add 1-stk sniper rifles than add shotguns

[wanton burrow]

if they let slugs become an ammo type i’m down otherwise nah

[chilly urchin]

The only other round type would be slug

[strong epoch]

nah, thats what i want my beautiful hecate for

[chilly urchin]

So it can be classified as a sniper

[wanton burrow]

hecate sniper

[strong epoch]

hecate would definitely go in the hypothetical new antimaterial category

[wanton burrow]

i’d love a 90 dmg body shot sniper rifle cause that would annoy everyone (of course the rpm has to suck though)

[strong epoch]

would be a... rank 150 unlock? and would bridge the gap between the M200 and the NTW :)

[wanton burrow]

ntw :)

[strong epoch]

and lets be honest

vehicles are annoying

having super-high level-requirement anti-material rifles that are capable of, for the lower-level ones, at least scaring away armour?

[wanton burrow]

me when a car snipes me

[strong epoch]

that would be a godsend for making conqest not so samey and annoying

would also allow for players to have some sort of vague anti-air without making the game absolute ass for pilots by adding actual anti-air

[wanton burrow]

i am all for making heli players suffer

fucking 93-4 kd

[strong epoch]

nah, they will suffer when the lil birb isnt a fucking joke

[wanton burrow]

LIL BIRD IS A MENACE

[strong epoch]

but once that happens, i dont think it would be fair to then give people dedicated anti-air missiles lol

[wanton burrow]

we need mortars

[strong epoch]

because a lil-birb physics nerf would heavily decrease the need for anti-air anyway

[strong epoch]

impact grenades

[wanton burrow]

oh yeah the side flying

[wanton burrow]

nuh uh i wish to launch rockets into random areas

[strong epoch]

uh

lots of RPG practice

[wanton burrow]

i suck with it

[strong epoch]

you can hit some straight dirty shots with it once you know where to aim instinctively

[wanton burrow]

rpgs are silly

[strong epoch]

also, the loadout menu straight up tells you how the PSO7 scope works

and the scope is 100% the way to go. so dont ignore that menu tooltip

[wanton burrow]

that scope hurts to use

seeing all these lines and stuff

[chilly urchin]

I hate the scope lol

[wanton burrow]

yeah but i like the tandem for the high damage

otherwise i just use base rpg

[chilly urchin]

I think it's stupid it doesn't have a non scoped variant

Know what

Can we add scope glint to the rocket scopes lol

[wanton burrow]

scope glint is the stupidest thing ever as it is rn

i can see you through trees and stuff

[chilly urchin]

Remove it from snipers, stick it on rockets for the lolz

[wanton burrow]

i’ve smoked them back with my medium scope sniper

[strong epoch]

tandem doesnt have a non-scope version because its a pain in the ass to hit with it even with the scope

[wanton burrow]

it’s more of a pain when you got so much visual clutter on a scope

[chilly urchin]

Having only the scoped version causes some weird issues at night. Honestly it should be an option no matter what

[wanton burrow]

true the black color

[strong epoch]

the very bottom line on the HEAT scope will get you like, 2km if the rocket didnt despawn before that

on the tandem? 200m

thing has unbelievable drop

[chilly urchin]

Yes

I still want no scope

[strong epoch]

it would be useless without a scope lol

[wanton burrow]

it does but generally it’s better for being an aggressive anti vehicle guy

[strong epoch]

they just need to give it an alt-aim

[chilly urchin]

The extra ads time is annoying af

I don't like aiming with the scope

And it look stoopid

[strong epoch]

and frankly even with the scope, sometimes id rather just aim the fucker quickly and pray

without sacrificing the scope outright

[chilly urchin]

I think canted sights would be ok on rockets

I know it's like a balance thing, but I think it'd be more fun

[strong epoch]

i think it would be a positive balance for the tandem and only the tandem

[chilly urchin]

40x scope for the rockets?

[strong epoch]

or maybe just 1.5x velocity for the tandem. that would probably be better lmao

[wanton burrow]

i kinda like the tandem as is so i don’t mind if it gets some sort of buff

[strong epoch]

ye

it has plenty of room to be buffed without even nearing the realm of overpowered

[wanton burrow]

i want to kill every vehicle player ever

[bleak mantle]

fake svd?

[strong epoch]

svd isnt a battle rifle

[wanton burrow]

low damage and rpm, not a real svd

[strong epoch]

but ingame its balanced like a battle rifle

makes no sense

[wanton burrow]

oops i mean low damage and high rpm

[bleak mantle]

damage is kind of fine I don't see the issue tbh.

[wanton burrow]

does not play like the irl version

[bleak mantle]

if the mk14 does 40 then 42 makes sense for the svd

[strong epoch]

it performs similarly to the round the M110 shoots

[wanton burrow]

damage is cool but it does not behave like an svd

[strong epoch]

and has a fucking looong barrel

[wanton burrow]

also 41*

for svd

[bleak mantle]

only out of the ridiculously long barrel they stick on the thing, 7.62x54 is ancient and low-performing compared to modern cartridges.

[bleak mantle]

true, forgot about that change

[wanton burrow]

i still think svd ingame is not the svd

[strong epoch]

yes. but they do stick the long barrel on it. its a very-long barreled firearm for that reason

just like the M110, with the gun and calibre combination as is, they are veritable sniper rifles

[bleak mantle]

irl sure but not in bbr it seems

[strong epoch]

well thats sort of the issue we are poking at

oki has a weird tendency to just disregard the IRL firearm when actually balancing the guns

[wanton burrow]

like ebr’s auto mode

[bleak mantle]

wait you mean to say more attention is given to balance than realism? in a video game? why would oki do this?

[chilly urchin]

I think a 3 shot dmr is fine in the case of the Ebr, but you defo miss the 2 shot a lot.

[strong epoch]

no

[chilly urchin]

Is he stupid?

[strong epoch]

if you want to put words in my mouth i didnt say, im not even going to bother trying to explain lol

[wanton burrow]

i’m just lost on what the balance vs realism thing is

[bleak mantle]

then what did you mean?

[wanton burrow]

you can balance stuff while still keeping it true enough to the irl gun

[strong epoch]

mg36 fires at... not 750 RPM like it actually does and like the ingame G36C does. it fires at 600rpm

why make it the MG36

[bleak mantle]

because the in game gun needs to be something and the mg36 is close enough for it to make sense.

[strong epoch]

yeah but the stats werent made and then given a name and model lol

and 600 rpm is absolutely not close enough to 750 RPM lol

[wanton burrow]

idunno name it the mg35 like how there’s an hk419 in the game

[strong epoch]

and dont pretend the MG36's drum mag is 60 rnds instead of 100 because "of balance"

because it isnt balanced

[bleak mantle]

You're right. They added the gun, gave it some initial base stats, then tweaked everything so the guns in the game felt unique and different from each other while remaining viable. And while 750 isn't that close to 600rpm, the point is it's in the ballpark and not something like 1000 rpm or 400.

[strong epoch]

400rpm not being in the ballpark does not automatically make 600 inside the ballpark

[wanton burrow]

i think 650rpm would be a little nicer :)

[strong epoch]

600 isnt in the ballpark and 400 is just a different sport altogether

[bleak mantle]

the point is it's closeish. The semantics don't really matter, it's not so far off of what an lsw would fire at.

[strong epoch]

its a full 20% off. thats more than mere semantics. and sure, if the MG36 were a hypothetical weapon IRL, having a "would fire at" be good enough would be- well, good enough

[bleak mantle]

you're missing the point. The irl stats of a weapon are a starting point and that's it. it's not gospel.

[strong epoch]

and firerate isnt one of those stats you can just change around willy-nilly

[chilly urchin]

Call it the fictional S-MG36. The S is for slow

Problem solved

[wanton burrow]

we need more fictional guns

[strong epoch]

damage, numerical recoil values, reload speed, those are all things that are unique to a video game because they dont have IRL analogues

[bleak mantle]

Why the hell not? it's not a milsim game.

[wanton burrow]

oh yeah aren’t they adding a milsim mode too

[strong epoch]

i have my doubts about that at this point

[bleak mantle]

What?

[chilly urchin]

Yea. Idk why tbh, I imagine it'll just be like BF hardcore or something. Slower movement? Idk

[wanton burrow]

tarkov gameplay in battlefield

[chilly urchin]

Horrid

[wanton burrow]

flashbangs leave a white spot on your screen

[strong epoch]

i think the intention was to split the current hybrid gamemode up into two modes, closer to squad and close to battlefield respectively

[chilly urchin]

Flashbangs burn out the pixels on your screen to stimulate permanent damage

[wanton burrow]

true!

[chilly urchin]

I think the milsim mode is a bad idea balance and playerbase wise at this moment. They should defo add it way down the line

[bleak mantle]

it's not something they even have a timeline for, it's just something they said they want to do at some point.

[strong epoch]

that was the plan, but with the current changes being made to weapon performances, the milsim mode would need an entirely different set of stats for pretty much every gun. that no longer feels like something that will realistically happen

[chilly urchin]

I mean, actually I'm wrong

Milsim is crazy easy to balance