Sniper Rifles (General) - Feedback

[simple wind]

FVI Falcon OP-99 anti tank rifle when

12.7x108mm DshK sniper converted when

Also 14.5x99mm

[foggy spire]

The glint should be nerfed so it drops off with distance >300m and glint drops off. Also make a deployable camo net that looks like leaves. Make snipers stealthy.

[vast sandal]

The entire point of glint is to make them visible at range...

[drowsy stream]

Which is why medium scopes(sniper) are an issue, and we can't have AR's, and other weapons have glint. It would be too wacky if all we saw were glints at every direction we face.

[simple wind]

Kivaari-338 when

[civic canyon]

Glints are just an old-fashioned solution and in my opinion you have to find a completely new concept to balance the sniper. At least that's just my personal opinion.

[past snow]

I think it's obvious when people say make mid scopes glint they only mean it on sniper rifles

[paper tiger]

There are enough auto weapons with good enough handling to win against mid range snipers, particularly when you get the first shot off. Making them hyper visible at those ranges is just gonna make them switch to short range sights lol.

[past snow]

I don't want glint on medium range scopes

I'm just pointing out stuff so people stop arguing about shit that nobody has said

[paper tiger]

I see. But nobody should be even arguing about that. 😂 Like, once you make mid scopes as visible as long range ones, it's obvious which one will be taken instead.

[past snow]

There's a reason long range scopes are barely used

[civic canyon]

The glint ...

[past snow]

You solved the puzzle grats

I don't like glint as a solution to snipers but I am doubtful oki will be able to come up with a better solution

[civic canyon]

obviously, but do not think other players are stupid 😉

[past snow]

So "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't"

but the current glint needs a major rework

It should not go through anything. No more foliage, tree and wall piercing glint.

[civic canyon]

There is some truth to this, but you should still remove the glint first. You could also add that the accuracy is massively affected by the slightest movement and there is a minimal cool-down before you can aim accurately.

[past snow]

It's size should scale up with magnification but the glint should only be visible to people you see.

[past snow]

Accuracy problems come from the way shooting is coded if I'm not mistaken

[civic canyon]

At the moment I notice almost no negative effects when moving.

[past snow]

there's an issue that can also be seen when taking two shots in quick succession

your bullets just don't go to where your reticle is

[civic canyon]

true

[past snow]

let me find the clips someone else posted

here #1138743146541486130 message

[civic canyon]

In conjunction with a monitor crosshair or the Hudsight APP (which displays a crosshair overlay), you can aim quickly and accurately. For me personally two things that are totally annoying, I do not use something like that, it only distracts me!

[wide vault]

I'd like to see a proper implementation of anti-material rifles for recon. 20mm, slow velocity, heavy drop, somewhat inaccurate (for a sniper), but negates damage reduction from shooting through windows, can punch holes in walls like a sledgehammer, and deals high damage to soft skinned vehicles.

BBR'S dynamic destruction cries out for an anti-material rifle and would provide recon with a fun alternative to classic sniping

High damage would be compensated for by low velocity and poor accuracy (for a sniper), with a long bolt throw, movement penalty, limited ammo and move speed reduction also available for additional balancing

I would LOVE a gun that could hit someone through a (thin) brick wall and punch a hole through it at the same time

Something like the Anzio 20mm

[stable oak]

i really like that idea. if engineers can beam people through walls, why not recon? especially since they don't have a fully automatic primary to fall back onto

[wide vault]

Or Denel NTW-20

[wide vault]

Upvote it and see if we can get Oki's attention

[crystal heart]

I really hate the idea, but you'd want pickax destruction not sledgehammer destruction. But I REALLY do not think recons need even more anti vehicle tools when they are already one of the strongest anti vehicle classes due to drone bombing.

[wide vault]

I still hold that drone-bombing is an exploit and should be removed

[past snow]

killjoy

[wide vault]

Do it Ukraine-style and give them a frag they can drop rather than hovering a minecarts load of C4 into a tank

[bleak berry]

drone bombing is a meme consequence of the drone itself being useless for the role of actually doing reconnaissance

[past snow]

If drone bombing goes away drone needs a maneuverability buff

[bleak berry]

i have been a big advocate for it. i would even tolerate losing 1shot potential with them in exchange for just being able to say "fuck you" to a medic hiding behind a wall

[past snow]

shits too easy to shoot down

[past snow]

I'd not call it useless for reconnaissance, it's plenty useful. It's just that you cannot communicate the intel you gather

[wide vault]

And lets face it, flying 3 landmines into someones face is really, really funny

[past snow]

I use c4

and it is the funniest shit I've ever seen

[bleak berry]

they should make it so that you can proximity chat through your drone

[wide vault]

Would be extremely based

Very very rough, but this is something along the lines of what I'd like to see

10000 hours in MSPaint

[past snow]

The amount of offensive jokes I can make with this

[wide vault]

Dunno if Oki has differentation between thin/thick skinned vehicles in terms of damage, I dont think this should be able to bother a tank but it should eat soft skinned vehicles and be a nuisance to BMP's

Small AoE damage radius (HE round, similar/identical to BMP), does same structure damage as pickaxe and can hit/damage people behind destructable cover

[white atlas]

might as well carry a carl gustaf

[vagrant thistle]

remove medium scopes from snipers and rework glint system to be less shitty

[vast sandal]

reminds me of halo, I wonder if some of the sniper models in that game are based off this gun?

[wide vault]

ngl I actually prefer medium scopes even if LR didn't have glint

[vagrant thistle]

part of the point of removing medium scopes from snipers is allowing dmrs to actually perform well in their target range

[wide vault]

Ok I have no idea how that change would affect DMRs but ok

DMR's have their own issues irrespective of SRs

[vagrant thistle]

because right now snipers perform just as well in dmr ranges

besides you can still just use a 6x scope

like even if dmrs get buffed snipers would still be dominate in medium range and removing medium scopes seems like the best way to limit that

[wide vault]

DMR's perform poorly because poor weapon stats

Snipers would perform well in DMR ranges regardless

[vagrant thistle]

I said even if they get buffed

[wide vault]

You're just taking a weapon class and making it shittier for no reason?

if someones going to run around at medium range with a bolt action then all the power to them, it should be encouraged.

Far my dynamic that some bucket-hat wearing dynamic-gameplayer sitting under a tree 900m from the action

[vagrant thistle]

that or add glint exclusively to sniper rifle medium scopes cause as it stands medium scopes are way to overpowered

[wide vault]

Ok now it sounds like you're just salty at getting shot by non-glinting snipers

[vagrant thistle]

ain't no way you don't think medium scopes are op rn

[wide vault]

they aren't, real take.

You limit your engagement range heavily and require far more mouse accuracy, for the advantage that you can engage closer in without glint.

usually into ranges where AR's can be effective against you in response.

it's gives and takes

[vagrant thistle]

limit your engagement range???? you can hit well over 1km with medium scopes and most maps don't need more that that

[wide vault]

is it better than LR scopes? Yea currently, but thats only because glint is so punitive, not from any gameplay advantage sense

[wide vault]

You aint hitting heads tho, and that's the point

[vagrant thistle]

you don't need to cause damage increase by range for snipers so a body shot does more damage

[wide vault]

if some simple ass stands still long enough for you to get a second shot off then they deserve what hits them.

Thats another take but yes, I think increasing damage over range is stupid

[vagrant thistle]

You literally don't need to hit headshots cause the way the damage curve works for snipersn

[vagrant thistle]

Agreed it makes 0 sense

[wide vault]

But

You need to hit over 1000m on an M200 BEFORE a body shot will kill instantly, that's if the target isn't wearing armor or you hit them in the arm.

Good luck doing that in a repeatable fashion with a medium scope

Unless you're a poop-socking twitch streamer with a headphone dent in your skull

[vagrant thistle]

rather do that then have a fucking beam of light point to my exact position

[wide vault]

Yea but what I'm saying is you cant

[vagrant thistle]

unless glint system gets reworked long range scopes just aren't viable

[wide vault]

not reliably

[vast sandal]

snipers are natural counters to DMRs. DMRs are generally the midpoint between AR and SR, better than AR at range, but still capable at closer ranges, though not quite as effective as ARs.

[vagrant thistle]

that's fair

Dmrs still need buff they are dogshit

[vast sandal]

I don't disagree with buffing them but I do disagree with removing med scopes from snipers

[crystal heart]

snipers are natural counters to everything atm :P, anyone more than 100m is EXTREAMLY disadvantaged vs a sniper rifle

[vagrant thistle]

keeping medium scopes on snipers is fine as long as they have glint on snipers

[wide vault]

I mean, you're wrong but ok

[crystal heart]

I firmly support scope restrictions as it narrows the effective range band of snipers which is a desirable change. there is a reason many games do not have short range optics available to snipers at all

[vagrant thistle]

they would need to rework the glint system so that somehow lower zoom optics wouldn't glint as much but yeah

[vast sandal]

That's kind of the nature of sniper rifles in general, no matter how they are balanced. In theory a sniper rifle is the best gun in every single game at every single range if you have aimbot levels of aim.

Ofc, skill determines how effective they actually are in the end. I think they're a bit OP in battlebit, but since they require headshots, they aren't as horrible as in some other games where you can just chest shot someone for the kill(cod cough cough). There they are effective AND the skill check is removed

[wide vault]

You shouldnt punish people for playing recon in a way other than camping half the map away

[crystal heart]

I mean yes, which is why additional restrictions are desirable because they are a design nightmare otherwise. Scope limitations are a solid way to make them less desirable within certain range brackets and are a common method of balancing rifles for example

Recon has two weapon types, DMR and Snipers. If you want to play at 50m on recon the design intended weapon is the DMR not the sniper

And a 6x is EXTREAMLY usable at 100m

[vast sandal]

wouldn't really bother me, although the glint on mediums would have to be tuned down a ton compared to long. Glint in general could use a bit of tuning.

Imo the best way to do it would be a "small" glint that has 60 FOV range(smaller than what exists now) with a "large" glint that occurs in a smaller cone, the fov of current equipped scope.

For medium, they would only get a "small" glint that occurs in the fov of the current equipped scope.

Overall, I don't know if medium scopes NEED glint, but it wouldn't bother me if they did

[vagrant thistle]

I suggested having the fov cone of glint dirrectly related to the zoom of an optic, so a 4x scope would have it's glint come 4 degrees, and so on (probably could use some tuning but that's the basic idea)

[weak rapids]

Okay, you guys convinced me snipers are really in a weak position right now. So if you equip a long range scope you should be able to shoot through objects. So if I'm standing behind a hill I can shoot through the hill with wall hacks so I avoid showing glint. If you use a med range scope you should be able to instantly 1 tap anyone at any range even if you shoot their feet. Snipers are so weak they also need to be able to summon behemoth blimp from Battlefield 1 instead of a drone. Snipers should also have a trophy that destroys other sniper's bullet to prevent counter sniping. 🫰

[vagrant thistle]

Cause there's no reason that a 6x scope should have the same visibility as a 40x one

[crystal heart]

The primary issue with medium scopes is they have an effective range of 1000m+, meaning they are just correct to use in nearly all situations.

So the intended balance mechanic for long range shots gets removed

[vagrant thistle]

glint would fix that

[wide vault]

medium scopes do not have an effective range of 1000m please stop lying

[vast sandal]

I disagree, your gun choice should be personal preference. Nerfing snipers to the point they are useless except for sitting at 1km is stupid.

Both guns should be useable. Also, the 6x being useable at 100m is not something I agree with, for me it's about a 12x zoom due to my FOV and that is too much to be useable at any distance; I use medium scopes exclusively because it's the only way to get a manageable level of zoom. Even the current medium level scopes have way too much zoom for my personal preference. I would love a 2x, 3x, and 4x option with a clean reticle, which would translate to a 4x, 6x, 8x option. Atm the lowest zoom I can get on sniper(excluding red dots) is 6x

[crystal heart]

Glint on medium has huge side channel effects on DMR and ARs

[crystal heart]

I REGUARLLY take 1000m shots on a 4x

it is not hard to do

[wide vault]

Effective =/= possible

[crystal heart]

hence reguarlly...

[wide vault]

Do you hit regularly?

Do you get kills regularly on anything other than other snipers?

[vagrant thistle]

#1138743146541486130 message please read this I believe it would fix medium scopes and long range

that way we can keep mediums on snipers without them being op

[crystal heart]

Yes, travel time at 1000m is not very long, lead is not hard to do any you 1 shot body shot at that range

[wide vault]

Ok, what if the damage scaling on snipers wasn't backward and stupid?

Would that fix this issue?

[crystal heart]

It would help, but it would still be very possible to take long shots on 4x

[vagrant thistle]

You need to clarify if you are shooting at scope glints or normal people cause it's wayyyyy easier shooting at glintsn

[crystal heart]

At people mostly

[wide vault]

But if you now need a minimum of two to kill someone unless you get a (very) lucky shot, would it make it less viable?

[crystal heart]

You can visually identify targets and heads at that range

I mean maybe, I do it with DMRs too and those are 3 hit kills at that range (and it is much harder due to MUCH lower velocity than the M200)

[vagrant thistle]

Snipers should just have a flat damage curve imo

[wide vault]

This is feeling very anecdotal, chuck some footage up of you hitting 1000m out on the regular with a medium scope

I'll chuck some footage out of me missing

[crystal heart]

Not sure what makes it esspecially hard but I do not have video on hand ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vagrant thistle]

Having to hit headshots to actually kill someone first hit would certainly make long range scopes more viable because you would actually need to see where the head is and not just a blob of pixels

[vast sandal]

..that's not how it works, a 4x doesn't have 4 degrees fov

[vagrant thistle]

I said it needed tuning

that was just an example of bigger zoom = more viable

Visible*

In reality for that to be fair it would probably have to be individually set for each scope

[vagrant thistle]

and I meant the fov that the glint is visible from, not the fov from the person using the scope

[crystal heart]

I do wish that scope zoom was only the scope though, instead of the whole screen

[vagrant thistle]

that could be really annoying for people on small screens

doesn't seem fair to me

[vast sandal]

that requires PiP, which unfortunately is aweful to implement and comes with huge costs. Devs have talked about it and said it'll never happen, which I agree with because I've never seen a pip implementation that isn't awful.

that's one of those things that needs to stay out of multiplayer games, it's cool in single player but has too many problems in any form of pvp

[crystal heart]

I mean... it would be the same for all people relativle like it is now?

[vagrant thistle]

what's pip

[crystal heart]

Picture in picture, but there is nothing inheritly awful about having two cameras

and it lets you not blind yourself when you scope in

[vagrant thistle]

well if the devs already said they wouldnt add it

[crystal heart]

lame but w/e I guess. Doomed to meh attachments :P

[vagrant thistle]

alright so if removing medium scopes isn't viable cause the way fov works (I didn't even know that was an issue until now cause I use low fov) are we all in favor of keeping medium scopes but with a light glint when equiped on srs? (glint system could obviously use a rework too cause it's dogshit rn)

[bleak berry]

bro, snipers have had a trophy for a long while now. its called a fucking sandbag

[vast sandal]

Yes, there is. There are a huge list of downsides and the only upside is "it looks cool sometimes"

1. performance hit is giant. There is no getting around this, you are rendering two scenes instead of one. It is impossible to implement picture in picture without a massive hit in performance, even a game like BB it will be noticeable.

2. sens scaling is always off, it will never feel right.

3. huge "dead" zone around the scope where you don't have vision at all makes it impossible to track moving targets with any reliability and actually causes a huge loss of situational awareness. It's incorrect to think pip improves situational awareness; you have more with regular scaled FOV because the dead zone is miniscule relative to PiP(only the part the scope covers is obscured)

4. a bunch of other smaller things that cause issues in other parts of the game, such as how scopes are situated which can cause innaccuracies in zeroing and other stuff; tarkov is a great example of this literally more than half the scopes do not function correctly outside of specific FOVs

[past snow]

I think mid scopes don't need to glint

[crystal heart]

I mean you have the huge upside of improved peripheral vision. the deadzone is also an upside as well as it better reflects how sights work, not sure how sensitivity is ever an issue in a correct implementation but to be fair I have never written exactly this before.

Upsides are also significant for things like Varriable power scopes and magnifiers

Using Tarkov as the argument against is also just.. I dislike it because Tarkov is kind of built like shit in a lot of ways

[vast sandal]

luckily, I don't have to sit here arguing over how awful pip is cus oki already said "fck no".

I can say with absolute confidence that every game with pip would be better off without it, and any game which gives you the option, pip is the meme option that only shit players use

[crystal heart]

I mean non PIP is likely more powerful so sure players would opt for the power meta... But it removes A TON of ways to differentiate scopes like scope field of view

Or even shit like paralax

[vagrant thistle]

Oki ain't gonna add it stop babbling

[crystal heart]

yeah yeah, oki hates a lot of random features /shrug

[vast sandal]

he's overall got like a 95% correct view on which random features to leave out so far. His only major blunder so far has been aim punch

[vagrant thistle]

They prolly won't add any of this I doubt they read through the feedback and suggestion threads

[vast sandal]

they don't read it themselves, but the mods do and organize the feedback and sentiment and return it to the devs so they can make decisions(even if the decision is do nothing)

[vagrant thistle]

Can't blame them considering how many posts and ideas their are

[vagrant thistle]

well that's good to know

at least I know I'm not screaming into the void anymore

[vast sandal]

yes. game isn't perfect, no game is, and in the end the choice is the devs, but they are being responsive to feedback(the last major patch being a huge indicator). In the end, everyone wants the game to be better, even though not everyone agrees on the way to do it.

I suggest things I think will improve the game and stay within the scope of what BB is, as well as make sure that suggestions have some pushback, even if I agree with them positives and negatives should be discussed in general.

There's only a few topics I am really, truly adamant about, which is flinch, suppression, and a few ideas I've seen around which would make the game significantly less enjoyable

[wide vault]

Anyway, gimmie my anti-material rifle, I want to do 5-second 1200m KOBE shots with 20mm HE rounds

[silver nebula]

I think people fail to realize that snipers are not unkillable machines. Even at 100m you have every capability to shoot at a sniper if you see them. The only time that they cant be killed is in blue zone hiding in cover which thankfully as more maps get reworked is less and less.

Also most maps allow you the ability to get to where ever the sniper is so essentially if you really are out for blood you have the capability to get to them.

[crystal heart]

I mean, at 100m you can shoot back. At 300m generally you really can't

[white atlas]

pickaxing clueless snipers in the head my beloved

[silver nebula]

---

Also to add: Every sniper currently is just bad within a cqc situation. It feels horrible to actually snipe someone that snuck up on me only to get a hitmarker which only acknowledges I hit them but I still die.

[silver nebula]

Maybe you can't always shoot back but why are u trying to engage the sniper.

[crystal heart]

Because you are getting shot :)

[silver nebula]

As they should be! Get them pickaxe kills

[silver nebula]

Smoke grenades 😄

[past snow]

at 300m you can find cover easily

[bleak berry]

just headshot them

[wide vault]

Battlebit maps do favour sniping heavily, but thats a map design issue more than anything

[silver nebula]

You can counter a sniper in so many different ways its crazy.

[silver nebula]

Maybe in maps other than 32 lobbies

[past snow]

If you can't you are not thinking about it enough

[bleak berry]

map maker literaly said "you know what, im going to put 2 hills 1km apart from each other" on like every map

[silver nebula]

agreed

[bleak berry]

guys, i found out how to counter sniper. its called the build menu

[past snow]

or the sprint button

[wide hamlet]

sprint button + dpi switch lmao

[silver nebula]

also cant headshot them and kill em in one shot. Helmets are sadly a thing and keep em alive sometimes.

[white atlas]

face shot. fresh exo though? you should've mined the area

[bleak berry]

have you tried the giggle glock?

[wide vault]

100% can headshot 1-shot, I'm in EXO armor and still happens to me occasionally

[past snow]

If I'm not mistaken only m200 one shots exo helmet

[wide hamlet]

with ranger

[silver nebula]

I'm talking about in cqc situations relying on a headshot not always one shots.

[white atlas]

deagle headshot em

[crystal heart]

Other snipers can 1 shot exo with enough range, but only M200 does it at all range with a barrel upgrade

[past snow]

Enough range is not a good argument imo

[silver nebula]

Agree

[past snow]

At those ranges people generally are not shooting supports

they are shooting at snipers

[crystal heart]

I mean, it is worth noting but it is not the baseline yes. And supports are probably the 2nd most common stationary target

[silver nebula]

I think the only thing that you get out of it is the assist kill when sniping and getting a hitmarket headshot on exo

[past snow]

sure but supports tend to set up in places where you cannot shoot them from that far anyway

[crystal heart]

well... good supports. there are a lot of bots

[silver nebula]

Yes but even if they are a bot it doesnt feel good to get the hitmarker and then they run away

[past snow]

can't balance around skill issues

[silver nebula]

I clicked their head and they live because I wasn't far enough away.

[crystal heart]

To be fair, exo helment is one of the few things support have going for them. Class isn't great

[vagrant thistle]

farther away equalling more damage just doesn't make sense the curve should be flat for snipers

[silver nebula]

I'm aware the class isn't great but I have shot a support 3 times and got hit markers each time.

[crystal heart]

"ItS nOt A mIl SiM"

[silver nebula]

1 for head, 1 for front plate and 1 for back plate.

Also hitmarkers with snipers on gadgets is nonsense.

Shooting a claymore and getting a hitmarker is just dumb.

[vast sandal]

That is only support and there is even a sniper that lets you 1hko them. But that's what pistols are for, if you hit the support, duck behind cover, whip out the pistol and finish them off

[vast sandal]

if you have m200 with ranger, long, or heavy barrel, it always, 100% of the time, kills against ANY helmet in the game, including exo.

All other snipers can kill anything in the game in a headshot EXCEPT a full HP fresh spawn support with exo helmet.

That's it.

[silver nebula]

I don't use the m200

But I'm aware of its potential.

[crystal heart]

So... if you want to 1 tap exo use the gun that one taps exo

[silver nebula]

the point he is referencing isnt about exos.

[vast sandal]

I'm talking about in cqc situations relying on a headshot not always one shots.

I'm just countering this. There is literally a sniper that allows it, and otherwise, only a single class with a specific helmet can survive a headshot from any other sniper and only on full HP.

You will kill 90% of players with a headshot in cqc, and on the occasion it's a support you can always duck behind cover or pull out a pistol, intead.

[wide hamlet]

Considering how slow supports are, if they're able to sneak up on you then credit to them

Also if you want a primary good in close range then you should've picked something other than a sniper

It feels bad, that's the point

[crystal heart]

if sniper ever feel good in CQC something has gone horribly wrong

[final gust]

All snipers that land a headshot from a far enough distance should render the person unrevivable unless they have an exo helmet :^)

[finite anchor]

the ssg is garbage no matter the distance its cant kill shit

[steady mist]

getting bled on bodyshot is annoying af

[white atlas]

bleeding threshold is 40/100hp, the weakest sniper has 60 dmg. perfect

[past snow]

now imagine you have 3 bandages on top of this

[paper tiger]

Yeah, but it really is just annoying. I don't feel like snipers are a real threat in this game tbh.

(say, compared to the hitscan OHK AWP from CS:GO)

[past snow]

completely different games though

Something like an AWP would not work in battlebit

[paper tiger]

I know, but it's about the sensation of having to completely change your movement around it cause it's so powerful.

I see snipers and I'm like ok, I guess I'll wiggle a bit more than usual.

[past snow]

yea sure but cs:go has an economy system to balance the AWP

the only way something similar might work is if you make it a pick up weapon

giving access to such powerful area denial to a class for free is a bad idea

[paper tiger]

I would not be opposed to an economy system cause otherwise we have the current situation where there are only so many stats and that means there's realistically like 2 weapons per category that are generally useful.

[past snow]

That's just not this game

If people wouldn't lose their minds over it I see no problem making some weapons basically be different skins for each other, if that is the only way to make both of them usable

[paper tiger]

It's not what this game is based on, I will agree with that. And taking it straight from something like CS:GO would suck ass, absolutely. But something could be worked out.

[wide vault]

Still wanting a genuine anti-material rifle 😔

We've got rifles that cover every plethora of sniping except for putting speed-holes in humvees/quads/walls/people

[white atlas]

I think heavier weapons should be buildables or take up both one gadget slot and your primary weapon

heavy snipers and machineguns as emplacements that lets everyone know they're there and will kill you

[bleak berry]

i just want to splatter guys behind bricks like that one story i heard of a dude who used a greentip 50 bmg round against an insurgent taking cover behind a brick wall.

the back of the block was obliterated, best guess was the round detonated inside the brick and turned it into a shotgun-like blast on the other side

[white atlas]

mmhmm yes. bullet penetration mechanics. spalling.

[bleak berry]

im still waiting for a shooter that isnt a mill sim to do a reasonable approximation of how bullets ricochet 😩

i want to teach people to keep away from walls, i dont need to be able to aim when you are that close to a wall

[white atlas]

sandbags for days

[crystal heart]

I mean you don't need greentip 50bmg to penetrate brick, any realistic pentration in the game would make most non built cover pretty worthless

[white atlas]

it's pretty funny seeing people hiding behind cloth-covered chainlink fences though lol

[paper tiger]

I would hope they let M2 Humvees do that first. Seems far from OP given its low HP and exposed gunner.

[vagrant quest]

L96 and M200 Should be one hit kill torso, or head

yw

ymy

maylkl

[past snow]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-dragonballsuper-dragonball-meme-language-of-gods-gif-14707991

[final gust]

Is that true? Because I've been hit and left at 68 hp while bleeding which would be 32 damage. I guess armor shenanigan are at play

[white atlas]

How did you know you had 68hp?

[final gust]

When you bandage it tells you you health

[white atlas]

Bandaging heals you 40hp

[final gust]

Not the inital bleeding bandaging

[white atlas]

Stopping bleeding also heals

You were hit for 72

[final gust]

huh, the more you know

[simple wind]

I need my .50 cal AR-50A1

[knotty nova]

When unlocking a new sniper, how about we have the option between 1 medium range and 1 long range scope? Being locked into long range (with this star like glint) makes it a pain to even level up the newly earned sniper.

[digital stirrup]

unless you have no idea how to use a bipod, your sight should not leave target for ANYTHING especially recoil when the shot is taken. Even avid hunters know and train to this standard.

[final gust]

Honestly that's a thing for every weapon. There's ZERO reason to not have a gun that starts with ironsights also start with a scope. It does not feel good being unable to see jackshit and dying due to it. Similar to snipers - glint is so bad you'll get 1-2 kills before dying from some random guy shooting through 20 trees

[knotty nova]

Exactly. I get it, they want a progression for the new weapons so you’re not XP spamming using Medic and then boom, you’re sporting the M200 with all of the attachments unlocked from the other snipers.
But to me, having the lowest and basic option to choose between 2 optics (1 Med/1Long) would be beneficial.
My $0.02 👊🏼

[novel yew]

Honestly I don't mind grinding 15 kills for the medium scope. It's a fun moment for me going through hell using those fucking ''I AM HERE'' scopes.

I'm more worried about the patchnotes and what exactly is ''strong muzzle flash''. If this make any kind of stealth snipin imposible, I'm honestly out.

The SMGs in the patch got some buffs to compensate for a slight damage decrease. I'm growing tired of their SMG medic bias.

[vast sandal]

You'll still be able to equip a flash hider or silencer if it's too much. It probably won't be a big deal

[novel yew]

That's what I'm worried about, I want to check it, because I already used silencer in my snipers.

Sniping was the only fun I was having, at least until they fix the zergs running across the map capturing empty capture points.

[knotty nova]

I’m not gonna lie, I fucking hate it (the glint). It doesn’t matter how much I relocate, move around, as soon as that glint is shown, I get taken by some M200 waiting for someone to ADS with a long range scope.
Don’t get me wrong, the game is wicked. But seeing that the glint is not adjusted or should I say, considered, leads me to believe recon is not that important of a class for them at this time. I will return to Medic since recon seems pointless if you need to grind 15 kills (while being taken out within seconds) just to reach the med scopes every time you have the luxury to unlock a new sniper.

[novel yew]

what I used to do was play in the middle of the fight, and try to get 1 kill per deth, you can get 15 in 1 or 2 games. But yeah, SMG Medic is the best playstile and will continue to do so, if you can enjoy that, stick with that.

[knotty nova]

Thanks for the advice. I was contemplating that play style a bit . I might have to give it a go!

[bleak berry]

recon when using a glinting scope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJDvY-B9AgI

[worn idol]

Ok, I have a way to fix glint, instead of glint being static as long as you look down the scope, put it in on a timer for looking down the scope for a certain period of time. The stronger the scope, the longer the time between glints and vise versa.
So the default scope glint is 5 seconds, mid range scope timer is 3 and the timer resets after not looking down the sights for 5 seconds as well.
And the glint will twinkle to make it more obvious in the chaos of battle.

[desert bison]

Or the glint should only happen when the scope is being moved.

[strong epoch]

the announced increase to sniper muzzle flash is a big L IMO. its already dead easy to find a sniper when you actually know what to look for. the last thing snipers need is more crackheads running them down with an smg

[bleak berry]

Why do it is my question? Are they admitting that scooe glint is irrelevant because everyone uses medium scopes? Is this the precursor to some change to glint to reduce its visability and thus muzzle flash was increased to compensate?

[strong epoch]

good question. ive always felt like they have no actual clue where to take sniper rifles. none reach max damage until 1000m at least, oh but you cant use a long range scope unless you want the entire enemy team shooting at you and few maps are actually that big. feel very much like they were yanked out of an entirely different game, stats and all

[bleak berry]

Treat the game like a milsim with an identity crisis and various decisions make more sense.

The snipers really were made for a different game i think. Scooe glint was added to try and bring them in line from the dominance recon had during the playtest

[past snow]

Did you play the playtest? I keep hearing conflicting accounts of snipers dominating or just being fine.

Either way, they should stop twiddling their thumbs about what game they actually want to make. While community servers are nice do we really need them before establishing an identity for the game? We know they started off with a milsim but couldn't gain enough traction so they went more casual. But this half assed synthesis of the two just keeps creating problems. At this point I just want them to launch hardcore mode so that cohesive game design choices can be made.

[strong epoch]

aye. the way i see it, the longer they spin their wheels regarding the direction of the game, the more players they lose, both short term and long term. A new player will want to be able to click "quick play" and get put into a match. They will not want to, or even know that they need to join a community server to get a cohesive experience. The experience they get after clicking quick play is their launchpad. If its a bad or confusing experience, poof! thats one player who not only doesnt add to the short term numbers, but also probably wont come back later.

Frankly, I think we need to try removing glint outright. Lets be real; most players use medium scopes. That don't have glint. Are we sure we arent massive overselling how "big" of a change it would be to remove glint from long range scopes? Because at least in my case, it doesnt actually prevent me from sniping at long ranges. It just makes it less fun.

Also, to face a big issue head-on; people hide their glint. Often, sometimes not intentionally (which makes the situation worse, not better if you ask me). Its borderline an exploit, and its definitely gaming the system. Remove the feature outright, you cant have people who find these weird spots and tricks to circumvent the system, and you will actually have people going out and sniping, instead of turning themself into a human stationary turret.

[wide vault]

Snipers thought they were fine in the playtest, everyone else thought they dominated

[past snow]

Can you give more details? I know oki implemented aim punch for this but did snipers have glint in the playtest?

[wide vault]

Depends how far back you go, they did when I started playing it but there wasn't much you could do about it other than snipe back, since there wasn't any aim punch

I think I remember further back there being no glare, but that's before I played I think

[past snow]

So yeah, no aim punch was the fix for their dominance in the playtest not glint

Which makes sense

[wide vault]

For the playtests I did, yea. Glint was obviously added for a reason and I can see why, the map design is incredibly pro-sniper

In BF2 and 2142 you had render distance fog which prevented any cross-map sniping, but that's not the case in BBR

Basra was aids, you couldn't cross the middle of the map as half of each team would be on either side, sniping across from vantage points

I still think it's slightly too much, a very quick change would be to turn the intensity down by 50% and narrow the cone in which it's visible, which I wouldn't be against

[past snow]

That's what I suggested as well

fix glint's piercing issue, reduce the intensity and make it so that the glint visibility cone matches your own view cone so that people you can't see can't see you either

[wide vault]

Glint piercing issue might be a fault with the engine, it very much feels like an alpha issue as it only happens on textures with transparency

This is a very common graphics issue with certain game engines and is due to how DirectX/OpenGL handle alpha transparency

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure glint is just a sprite texture with transparency, so you're trying to render two transparency textures on top of each other and the rendering engine doesn't know which one should go on top (because alpha blending), so it picks one randomly.

Which is why glint sometimes does/doesn't show, or shows through certain tree canopies but not others

Any Devs who've dealt with this before will tell you what a colossal pain in the ass it is, it's not like you can just tell the engine "render this first"

[past snow]

If its implementation is as tiresome as you say it is and the effect on gameplay is this frustrating why keep it?

Depending on how it works the new muzzle flash can also be a way to discourage snipers from camping

[wide vault]

If snipers didn't have any kind of ready/stow inaccuracy when setting up, you're just going to enter an age of pop-up snipers, muzzle flash can be eliminated using a silencer

[past snow]

you can just give silencers muzzle velocity nerfs then

kinda like how battlefield did it

[vast sandal]

I did and yes they were dominant as hell in playtests

[wide vault]

Silencers dropping bullet velocity to subsonic levels across all firearms would be amazing

[past snow]

honestly idk why they don't to begin with

[vagrant thistle]

that would be cool and balanced instead of them shitting on recoil and control (would also make sense logically because subsonic rounds are quieter)

[wide vault]

Dropping bullet velocity and damage falloff, I don't think those two are linked

[vagrant thistle]

If they did drop velocity then I don't think there should be any other negatives

[wide vault]

If it's got less velocity it should drop more and deal less damage at range?

[strong epoch]

er, that would be <343 velocity for any gun using a suppressor. i would never use suppressors again...

[wide vault]

😄 100% realism!

[strong epoch]

thats not realistic tho

[wide vault]

In all seriousness it shouldn't be that much, but should be significant

[strong epoch]

also doesnt sound very fun

it would be huge. thats one third the velocity of the ssg 69, the slowest sniper rifle. its less than half the velocity of many of the ARs. it would make any suppressed gun feel dreadful

[bleak berry]

Funky idea, but what if snipers rifles (and maybe even all guns) had momentum when you aim and swing them around quickly.

if any of you guys played barotrauma you might know what i mean. If you use the turrets in that game and your skill level is low then when you aim at a spot the turret will often swing past and overshoot where you were aiming.

It would make aiming more difficult and encourage snipers to set up and pre-aim rather than just pop-up like that. We could base it off the control stat which currently does very little

[white atlas]

I'd rather have max turn rate or swing sway/inaccuracy than that

[bleak berry]

I feel like that would be incredibly frustrating.

this wouldnt prevent you from tracking and leading a target or even a quickly moving one if they are in a vehicle or sometbing, it would just make it more dificult to quickly snap to different targets all over the place

Max turn rate just sounds awful

[white atlas]

vehicle guns already have them and it's not too bad. just reduces retaliation effectiveness in hugging distance ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[bleak berry]

Its fine in vehicles but i still think for sniping it will feel like shit

[white atlas]

... how fast of a max turn rate are you imagining?

[bleak berry]

I imagine any max turn rate eould either end up being so high that it doesnt really do anything (so why have it?) or if made low enough to be relevant it will often end up frustrating.

lets say we base it at thr speed of a no armor smg toting medic at 100m (we could do different rates for different scopes but at least for now im just going to consider one for all scopes)

At closer, you are not going to be able to track faster players and that might be alright if we want to force snipers out to further ranges but at longer ranges it is now irrelevant.

[white atlas]

extra sway on turning would be better instead of max turn rate, now that I think more about it

[bleak berry]

Thats sort of what my idea was, it is sort of like horizontal sway that happens at the end of a turn

[bleak mantle]

Ngl i think that either max turn rate or momentum would just feel incredibly frustrating for anyone playing in a way that’s not mostly stationary/laneing

[bleak berry]

Fair, but i was thinking if it were based on thr control stat and if the strength of the effect were tuned just right you could still have more frontline oriented playstyled and snap-shooting playstyles.

[hazy tundra]

Hello just wanted to note here (in case it wasn’t noted before) after unlocking the L96 and using it for a bit (no bolt attachment unlocked yet) I’ve been able to double tap shots very quick before racking the bolt back (if I click fast enough). Haven’t experienced this on any other snipers I’ve used so far.

[bleak berry]

There is a weird bug (im assuming it is a real bug and not just some visual glitch) where bolties sometimes decide to turn full auto and i have no fucking clue what does it except that frequently scoping in and oit seems to cause it more frequently

This honestly isnt an advantage because all it means is i have no clue where i am looking due to the insane recoil

[atomic hill]

Control as a stat needs to go or they need to give the option for crosshairs to stay in ads. Incentivizing third party crosshairs for sniping is bizarre.

[wide hamlet]

This sounds annoying as shit

No other FPS to my knowledge does this

[final gust]

Yeah, it's easy to find them. The problem is getting to them. You either become a sniper yourself or just hide in a cuckshed. No real good way to balance snipers because you need to balance them via good map design which we don't really have. IIRC in construction you can snipe from your spawn point into the enemies spawn point

[bleak berry]

snipers being treated as an area denial tool is fine if the game actually keeps that in mind with map design and gameplay design. i genuinely think one of the more productive things snipers can do is pin enemies down inside their sandbag forts on roofs and prevent them from shooting down at people from them. the problem is that the game has sped up since launch, the playerbase has learned how to play and the biggest lesson they learned is defending is a waste of time that just leaves you exposed and so snipers have kinda lost this role of cracking open defensive positions

[final gust]

"if the game actually keeps that in mind with map design"

That's the problem. Some maps are basically "huge cliffs on each side of the map with a valley in the middle" i.e. Basra. Other maps clearly have 1 spot that can over see multiple points or an entire point. Sniping devolving into "you can literally do nothing to them and you need to stay in a building" is toxic gameplay and no one but snipers like it.

[bleak berry]

agreed. basara is a great example of poor map design. the only positive thing i say about it nowadays is the funnel shape at least encourages some good fights in the center, at least until enough people on either side slip past and start camping at the back points

that funnel shape was fucking awful early on in the game's life, but now its like the only map where i can expect a decent meatgrinder firefight to happen once in a while

[final gust]

They really need to go to the maps and start adding things that break LoS. No one complains about sniping on Tensa town or Frugis because you're just always naturally breaking LoS so snipers have very small windows to attack

[bleak berry]

tensatown is actually a pretty fun map to try and snipe on. i usually pregame by blowing up some trees down some of the longer sightlines 😏

but it takes effort right, more than just running up one of the hills on valley and sniping across the whole map with a 4x scope

[final gust]

I blow up the trees by A if I'm on that side just to cuck the snipers or sneak by there and shoot into A

Yup. I don't think the direction snipers should be in is "camp 2k meters on the edge of the map and take pot shots all game" which clearly it is on a lot of maps

Valley. Wine, Sandy, River, Lonovo, Isle, Dusty, Construction, and Basra I feel all have sniping issues

[bleak berry]

isle is craggy enough that you have decent cover from snipers from most angles

not on all parts of the map, but most of the map has decent cover or concealment

[mild fern]

i forgot frugis existed tbh, i never see it anymore but yea, tensa/frugis great for everybody else, prolly a little rough for you guys sniping though but even when i get sniped on those maps it's just like "Well damn ns" unlike... basra. sandy. waki. maps where i know it's going to be a fun game if i DON'T get sniped the moment i try do anything other than hide behind cover

[balmy oar]

Just make the rangefinder a seperate gadget instead of an attachment

[remote tree]

It is one, but only leaders get it for some reason

[balmy oar]

Why tho, recon is the only role where rangefinder as a gadget would make sense

[remote tree]

🤷‍♂️

(It's nice on engy too for the rpg actually)

Part of why I use the EBR on them

[final gust]

I dunno, I don't think you should be fucking with QoL things to balance

it's a feelsbad experience

[final gust]

Can we add old flinching values to people using meds scopes and long scopes? I'm tired of snipers being able to shrug off my 30-40 damage shots and shooting me in the head

[boreal hinge]

Let me tell you real fast and simple how to deal with the snipers issue

You can see more than 50% of the enemy team have snipers

Snipers are nothing good in this game

Just remove them and add Shotguns

Easiest way

[final gust]

I use snipers as a barometer on how easy it is going to be to win the match and how unfun it's going to be to win that same match

[past snow]

If you can't land 2-3 more shots in the time it takes for the sniper to adjust for the flinch then I'm sorry but it's just a skill issue considering your follow up shots also cause flinch. Either you should not be engaging snipers from the ranges you do or you just need to land your shots. Or you keep flinching them into your head but I doubt that's common enough to cause you to complain.

Just get close, they can't pull their handguns out anyways since they were fucking bugged

[final gust]

adjust to the flinch
What flinch?

Only time you ever get noticable flinch is ironically when you get hit by a sniper

Feedback is so bad post-flinch nerf I can't tell I'm getting hit half the time

[past snow]

my guy how?

[final gust]

I can post a clip of me getting shot and getting basically zero flinch

I'm sure I got more than a few

if it wasn't for the blood I wouldn't have even been able to tell

[past snow]

Do you really need flinch that much to understand you're being shot? Also this is not the flinch thread

[final gust]

The lack of flinch is the issue going back to my original post

[past snow]

Understanding that you've been shot is not hard with or without flinch

Yea but you're moving the point somewhere else rn

[final gust]

no I'm not, literally read my first post

"Can we add old flinching values to people using meds scopes and long scopes? I'm tired of snipers being able to shrug off my 30-40 damage shots and shooting me in the head"

[past snow]

The problem was snipers not flinching enough and as a player who uses said snipers I'm saying they do

and I said maybe you should not be shooting at snipers with your ARs from 300 meters out since you are likely not going to hit them enough to throw their aim off

[final gust]

Man, do I need to just record every single game I play and hand hold people through my explanations

Do I need to play the next few hours as sniper to show that I get next to no flinch and then compare that to pre-flinch where I had to respect people taking pot shots at me?

[past snow]

smh

man what part of I play sniper that you don't want to understand

[final gust]

If you disagree with it that's fine, but don't misconstrue what I'm talking about

So do I?

[past snow]

why does sniper being strong at certain scenarios make people so mad

I don't complain that a medic that rushes me has a 80% chance of killing me

or the shit ass hit reg allows engineers to take dumbass rpg shots

[final gust]

A sniper shouldn't be able to take 2 rounds from a FAL or SCAR and be able to take minimal flinch and headshot someone. What part of that makes sense to you?

A sniper shouldn't even be that close to begin with

That's DMR range at best

[past snow]

what range? 300m?

[final gust]

150-300 is DMR range and I'm not talking about that far out

[past snow]

You need to make them be able to play that range otherwise you have a class that's entirely useless for objectives

[final gust]

Sniper is useless for objectives

They all jerk off in their own special pocket on the map contributing nothing to the team as they go 20-0

[past snow]

Is this where I stop taking anything you say seriously?

[final gust]

I stopped taking what you said seriously like eight posts back

[past snow]

Because no you can absolutely play the objective as a sniper

eh my bad then

[final gust]

The only people who think snipers contribute anything more than being a back up spawner are sniper mains

You can probably count the amount of times you've contested a CP on one hand in your entire time playing BBT

[past snow]

Average battlebit discord argument

[final gust]

t.

[mild fern]

This guy (Ateryk) keeps switching threads to say ignorant shit and then run away again.

I wouldn’t bother arguing with him

[past snow]

Yeah noticed

[bleak berry]

Hey, i will have you know tap firing at a dude at 300+m with an m249 is incredibly funny with how often it works

tap, hit, tap, hit, tap, hit, tap, hit, dead

[bleak mantle]

Which one of you ends up dead though

[bleak berry]

Surprisingly often, the sniper. If in going to end up dead typically it is before the first or second shotnlands

[knotty nova]

The fuck are we arguing about? I sniper main but often go to Medic. I’ve been a sniper in all of the shooting games I’ve played. Who cares? Bros want to be assault, medics, engineers, Team Lead, perfect! I’m playing this game to chill and have fun while sipping a drink. I can’t careless if I see “victory” or “defeat” at the end.
And yes, I’m getting shot by LMG, SMG, AR, RPG and snipers.
I’m honestly amazed by how many other class can take me out at long distance with anything else than a sniper. I laughed it off and respawn.

[placid pollen]

anyone else hate the medium sights on snipers? (as an enemy). they have no glint, they dont need to hold their breath, and can snipe just as well. im consistently getting tapped from people hundreds of meters away because theyre just stood there with a stupid acog and lock onto me faster than a CIWS

on any map that has any remotely open ground, if i dont constantly move, and when i stop to look for something, dont just keep moving and lean spamming, 99% of the time i will get tapped by someone sitting on another continent with a sniper. Its just not fun being forced to only sit in buildings otherwise you get instantly domed

[desert bison]

Let's have medium scopes adversely effect the range or accuracy. Unrealistic, yes, but that's okay, it's a video game

[past snow]

The thread is full of this

[wide hamlet]

Fix glint first

[past snow]

Yeah, the glint is just fucking broken atm

[placid pollen]

honestly medium scopes should affect accuracy

[past snow]

For mid scopes, making zeroing be based on scope rather than rifle and reducing the max zero for medium range scopes would be a start

[placid pollen]

you aint gon hit stuff the same with an acog compared to x20

[past snow]

you are not going to see them yes

[placid pollen]

agreed, i hate snipers but even i know that is just annoying

[past snow]

it should not affect accuracy that shit feels bad

[placid pollen]

and they gotta fix dmrs so we can actually have a counter for them

the visual recoil on them is horrible, one shot and it throws you so hard off-target

just for you to need 2-3 more shots

in general, recoil on medium sights feels exagerated

[past snow]

Honestly, scoping is done so horribly in this game I'm not surprised

Like when taking follow up shots with a sniper if you shoot as soon as you are able your shot will just fuck off to wherever it feels like going

[placid pollen]

is that why my shot wont hit where im aiming on the m200?

i thought i was going nuts

my reticle is right on their head, i fire and it just

goes

[past snow]

your reticle is not reliable

which is extremely stupid

[placid pollen]

red dot - laser beam
medium sight - simulation of firing a full auto .50 cal

even on the vector or m4, that have no damn recoil with red dots, i often find medium sights unusable

not because of recoil, but because the visual is so jarring it hurts my eyes trying to fix my aim back onto the enemy

[past snow]

yeah that shit is nauseating

[placid pollen]

idk if you played rainbow six siege, but i used to run some of the highest recoil guns with extended barrels, highest zoom scope and angled grip

basically having the highest recoil possible

and i was still perfectly fine

[placid pollen]

i think its because it jolts your both your camera and your gun, while other games might jolt just your gun

think of tarkov, guns in that game have very high recoil, but it only moves mainly the gun

[past snow]

I think it was something like that yeah

the way player camera is implemented seems wonky

[placid pollen]

only medium sight i do well with is the slip? i think its called

i heard people say its only x2 zoom

[past snow]

scope zoom also depends on your FOV settings as well

[placid pollen]

i

bruh

i bet the people that kept getting me with acogs from 900 meters played on 1 fov

not even jokin

900 meters with an acog

or whatever medium sight

i would aim for 2 seconds with my sniper and id be dead

[past snow]

it's doable

kinda hurts your eyes though

also zoom scales up with your FOV

I think it was walk who mentioned 6x was unusable for him because he plays on 120 FOV and that turns 6x into a 12x

[placid pollen]

excuse me?

wha

i play on high fov

is that why all the medium sights feel like sniper sights?

i think im at like 105

[past snow]

yeah

[placid pollen]

i tried x8 on revolver

im dizzy

[sonic anchor]

i play on 120 fov i think and even 1300m+ is doable with a trix snipers and medium range scopes have to be looked at again sometime, they're goofy

[placid pollen]

it doesnt do the thing for me?

[tough turtle]

this game got worse over time as people get betgter snpers

it used to be people had the 1st or 2nd sinper

now the p200 juts lasers constantly

[bleak berry]

it absolutely is, i have gotten an 800m headshot with that level of fov. your main problem is not aiming but rather spotting enemies. it tends to shrink everything close to the center of the screen so much that often i end up not even seeing enemies right in front of me out in the open down long streets or other similar areas

[sly birch]

Wait what

Thanks for the trick I am getting 1100m kills max on default fov

When a head is sub pixel on my poor man’s full hd monitor

[bleak berry]

no, its more that the effective zooms scales.

6x on lowest and max fov are the same, but you zoom more with max fov to get there

because at max fov you are playing at like .5x zoom

[sly birch]

So does changing FoV make enemy head bigger using the same scope?

[bleak berry]

no

[sly birch]

I’m confused

[bleak berry]

you just go from .5x to 6x zoom instead of 1x to 6x zoom

[sly birch]

Nvm, I has no skills

[vast sandal]

Yea you got it correct

[steady mist]

It's why I think we need lower zoom scopes

or rebalance scopes to get some variety

[atomic hill]

After glint is fixed, what do people think about variable wind as a factor for bullets traveling over say 500m.

Give the long range scopes a wind meter. Add flags around the map to approximate wind speed and direction so long range medium scope shots require additional skill. Just trying to think of a solution that is skill based and not worse qol.

[strong epoch]

seems unnecessary. would add too much complexity that only a very specifc gun setup would even have to deal with. besides. players already run at 20+mph and have zero momentum. thats more than enough to make 500m+ sniping "challenging"

[past snow]

Instead of this just nerf the absurd muzzle velocities

That should also help sniper balance

[upbeat fable]

I agree nurf the velocity on snipers. at the moment it's just point and click and generally you will get the kill.

To many people are running snipers now which is effecting gameplay hard amongst other things. Doesn't help that 50% of the maps aren't great so people just snipe because they don't want to run around and play the map.

[atomic hill]

If they were willing to nerf velocity wouldn't they have done that already? I believe there has been mass consensus that the m200 velocity is particularly egregious. I don't like the medium scopes being meta for every situation I use them all the time. I also don't think nerfing zeroing on them is a serious solution.

[past snow]

if I'm not mistaken they haven't done anything to balance snipers yet

zeroing nerf is just there to incentivize the use of longer range scopes more, especially with fixing glint

[atomic hill]

They're adding more muzzle flash next patch. A zeroing nerf won't make people use long range scopes, it will just benefit players who don't zero in the first place.

[past snow]

I wouldn't call more muzzle flash their attempt at sniper balance. More will surely come. As I said, I'm not talking about zeroing nerf on its own the glint also needs to be fixed with it. Also zeroing will hurt a good amount of players who use medium range scopes for long range shots.

[final gust]

Oki
being able to balance outside a vacuum
lol
Lmao even

[atomic hill]

?

[final gust]

Oki only balances weapons when people scream into his ear and ONLY that specific weapon. He doesn't balance weapons as a class, ever. It's probably why the SMG's damage fall offs are all fucked up and inconsistent and he never explained why

Plus, on top of that, he said he's not going to balance snipers with their stats as they need some other nerfs

I assume he meant map design since some maps (Basra) and just so overtly sniper centric and stuff but I'm not too sure

[atomic hill]

Hopefully they go over their plans for snipers in the next dev blog. Yeah I thought I remembered him saying that about sniper stats.

[vast sandal]

tbh a zeroing nerf is about the most pointless change to make. Most players don't use the ranging feature at all and just learn drop, instead. Removing the ability to zero the snipers won't make any noticeable impact on gameplay at all.

A projectile velocity drop wouldn't be unwelcome on snipers, especially on the M200. I would say the SSG is the best sniper to have the highest velocity from a pure gameplay perspective; it's the first sniper, but also has the lowest firing rate and least damage, so giving it the fastest velocity would be a good balancing feature for the opening sniper. M200 should have a slower velocity than other sniper rifles due to it's guaranteed 1hko.

That would give at least 3 snipers a niche, instead of having only 2 viable options like now.

That would make SSG the best bet for precision, long range headshots with the fastest bullet velocity, but slower followup shots, L96 the best bet for close-mid range sniping with its fast ads/move speed, with M200 being a solid powerhouse that guarantees a kill on HS, but is hardest to use due to lower velocity, ads speed, and movespeed.

Just needa find niche for some of the other snipers. Not sure what to do w/ them, though. Feels like there are too many options for this particular weapon class because it's so difficult to find unique niches for them.

[bleak berry]

Yea, oki's biggest problem is how he never seems to consider how the gameplay environment will change with nerfs, buffs, and additional content.

adds scope glint to stronger scopes to nerf snipers based on their performance in the playtest -> everyone uses medium scopes

[final gust]

He's probably going to add glints to the med scopes which, at this point, I'm for because sniping is so obnoxious on like half the maps

I just want him to add glint to EVERY med scope for the memes

[mild fern]

Or adding flinch to punish snipers and making all of us suffer

[final gust]

Just add flinch to med scope and above

punish people who need med scopes for over 100 meters

[bleak berry]

Makes medic have good access to strong guns, access to c4 for an extremely versatile tool, run really fast, and the only class that can heal themselves -> everyone plays medic to frag

[past snow]

What? Making the first sniper be the best precision one is not a good idea. The first sniper should be the all-rounder. Then you unlock more specialized options with advantages and disadvantages.

[past snow]

The dumbest and the most probable solution sadly

[final gust]

Didn't he add a 1x scope on one of the snipers recently

or in the patch notes

[bleak berry]

Dont worry, im sure some of us madmen will tape a magnifying glass to our screen and force him to add scope glint to iron sights 😏

[final gust]

Oh no, that was the L86A1

[past snow]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

I'm in

[bleak berry]

[placid pollen]

windows magnifier tool

XD

[vast sandal]

no he gave the L86 LMG a red dot by default like the M4 and AK, instead of ironsights

[final gust]

Yeah, misremembered. I remembered it was 3 characters that started with an L so thought L96 but it was the L86 and he just omitted the A1. Why is he like this

[white atlas]

DIY PiP scope

[wide hamlet]

really could've called the L86 the AWP or AWM or something like that

[mild fern]

Drop AVP men

[past snow]

that's L96 not L86

[wide hamlet]

You see what I mean?

[past snow]

No? Even battlefield called it L96, that's literally the weapon's designation

[bleak berry]

Idk man, im an american and we have like 50 million things called m1

I dont see the problem

[wide hamlet]

Yeah but I thought it was dumb too in battlefield 4 where you had both an L96 and L85 when one of them could've been substituted for a more different name

Clarity is more important than accuracy

[bleak berry]

What do you mean, m1 is extremely clear 🙃

[novel yew]

any sniper main here??

I want to know what maps you prefer for sniping.

I constantly see people complain about snipers in Basra, Wakistan, Sandysunset. And I think it's weird because I HATE those maps for sniping, I prefer maps like azagor, salhan or river.

I feel that in the bigger maps there is not many good positions for sniping and most of the game experience for recons becomes recon duels from over 700m. While in smaller maps I can easily find places to hide near to some capture points where I can provide support to my teammates applying a lote of presure on enemies trying to capture/hold said points.

Anyone else feel the same?? or can someone explain why you prefer sniping in the bigger maps?

btw, one big exception to this is Frugis, that map sucks for sniping, despite it being small

[wide hamlet]

Any maps that allow for flanking opportunities. My favorite thing to do when shopping is to hunt other snipers

[past snow]

Frugis fucking sucks, I also don't like sandy

ngl I think my favorite map to snipe in is tensatown

waki is fine I guess, the bridge tends to get boring but if the game somehow moves to the woods then it's fun

[wide hamlet]

Sandy is kinda fun but it takes longer to get into the rhythm of sniper hunting

Frugis can work but the map is bad for other reasons tbh

Basra is ass unless all you want to do is long range sniping, the most boring kind of sniping

[past snow]

people really just go into basra's "tower" and get 10 kills in 2 hours

the map offers fun sniping otherwise

[wide hamlet]

I disagree, it is one big lane with little cover so there is little opportunity to flank. Most will probably snipe on the ridge overlooking the boat since that's where most people are and they're relatively secure except for other snipers

The water especially makes flanking awful unless you have a boat, and most people just beach those lol

[bleak mantle]

Basra sucks unless both teams are fighting around the boat in the middle, then it’s the best map in the game

[wide hamlet]

It's a meatgrinder, those make for fun moment to moment gameplay but there's very little ways to interact with it beyond pushing forward like you're in Stalingrad

[past snow]

Meatgrinders have their place though

[wide hamlet]

They're fun for different reasons, but those different reasons make sniping unfun

Just my opinion though

[past snow]

To each their own I guess

[wide hamlet]

How I usually snipe is taking a long ass route around the map and listening for enemy snipers

[past snow]

I too enjoy flanking as a sniper but that doesn't mean I don't like making it work in basra

[wide hamlet]

I just feel like there's not much opportunity to make it work in Basra

[past snow]

I just hate "glitch" spots you can get into in basra

like the brick building near point D(?)

if you build in it you're basically unhittable

[knotty nova]

I mostly try to find a spot where the action is happening, 100-200m in and take shots. If the action move from my point, I try to counter snipe but if no one is in the area, I relocate. That game is my “chill” game. Killing 2000 or 1 enemy makes no difference (to me).
I play on Steam Deck so all other class other than Medic is a bitch to shoot with the current recoil. Recon is the only one allowing me to play and have a good time.
Yes some maps are bad for sniping but I try to find a spot where I can still engage and be somewhat safe. If it’s too small, Medic it is and I’m healing bros!

[strong epoch]

if that happens, that will probably mark the last time i play bbr unfortunately. i dont vibe with the games run-gun feel; other games do it better imo and i just dont enjoy it in bbr. conversely, i insanely enjoy sniping in bbr. even when glint is fixed, its a dumb mechanic that makes it harder for snipers to actually snipe and i just wont be using long range scopes, so if glint gets added to medium scopes i just wont have any reason to play bbr anymore ;/

[final gust]

shrug
Oki is a medic SMG main that doesn't play the objective. I wish I could find his fucking quote on that so I can just post the snipet

meaning there's no surprise that anything but that playstyle is lacking

[mild fern]

what game does run and gun better? because i'd love to know what other game i can pick up that plays like this

[bleak berry]

Designs a game around objectives
Doesnt incentivize playing objectives
Playerbase who expected team based objective driven gameplay leaves
No longer has people to mindlessly run and gun anymore
"Where did all my players go?"

[final gust]

I'm sure there's one but you'll probably need to find a private server and they probably only gather once a week on saturday

Just like RO2

[bleak berry]

Like if you dont care about objectives then they got to go and the game and maps needs to be rebuilt from the ground up as tdm being the gamemode

Better yet, king of the hill might be the better gamemode compared to what we have now

[mild fern]

i mean i could go play socom on private servers but that's not really run and gun in the way this game is. titanfall 2 is probably closer to what i'm looking for but uhhh kekw? call of duty is punishing run and gun gameplay by nerfing the shit out of it. battlefield in the shitter. etc etc etc.

also, idk what game modes y'all play but i'd recommend trying some of the other ones. like frontline. (ps: i'm one of the run and gun guys you hate and what i do every game is go sit on an obj near enemy base and take it from them then solo hold it for as long as i can, maybe it's just you guys that aren't playing objs)

[placid pollen]

titanfall 2 is so damn good but servers are mostly dead

[mild fern]

yea. one of the best shooters of all time but respawn stopped supporting it in favor of apex

and apex is just watered down BR titanfall 2, hard pass

[bleak berry]

Frontline is one of the better modes but it has issues with being insanely steamrolly. Amusingly, this wasnt so much of a problem before the claymore nerf

[mild fern]

weird, pushing anything is a lot harder when 80% of the server does nothing but spam infinite claymores

whoda thunk it

[bleak berry]

But you can expect a decently active firefight pretty much the whole match with that mode so long as your last points dont get capped in under 2 seconds

[bleak berry]

You say this as if slowing the game down is a bad thing

Claymore spam was obnoxious

[mild fern]

if you slow it down properly it'd be fine. it's bad if the way you slow the game down is a one shot kill you can't see because it's hidden by terrain and grass

[bleak berry]

But the consequences of it was healthier for the game

Yea, i can agree there

[mild fern]

my most frustrating deaths are ALWAYS someone putting a claymore facing into terrain where you can't see the "lasers"

[bleak berry]

Still, im of the opinion claymore spam was only really effective against blind goober medics running around like chickens with their heads cut off leanspamming everywhere

[mild fern]

that depends really. on a lot of maps you could place a lot of claymores in very frustrating spots (read: you couldn't see it until you tripped it) which just isn't fun

not unless they wanna give me stalker pro from old mw3 (delays claymore/mine explosions)

[bleak berry]

Fair, maybe i just played more cautiously than most people but i rarely felt like calling bullshit on claymores. If i trip one hidden in grass i typically just went "ahh, so that path is a minefield" and took different routes or used grenades to clear it

[stable oak]

it was annoying no matter what class you were. you're just strawmanning

[bleak berry]

My bro cant read the words "im of the opinion"

[stable oak]

the game is objectively better now that you have to think about where to put your mines/claymores as opposed to just shitting them everywhere

[mild fern]

the problem is it wasn't "this path is a minefield". after a certain point it was "okay the enemy team has turned their entire side of the map into a minefield, guess i'll go find a different lobby"

[strong epoch]

to be honest, most other shooters, specifically because they dont play like this game. More refined and finished, less janky movement systems go a long way to the ability for, at least me to enjoy a game's run-gun over and over again

[mild fern]

i'd be fine with an inertia system if they gave me bhopping. i like skill-based additions to games. additional movement tech always is nice to have because i like to be able to interact with my enemies outside of having to out aim them because my aim is shit. (but nobody wants to play vs a decent bhopper)

[strong epoch]

not saying its a demerit to this game; its in early access and i dont expect every single thing to be finished and polished. just that, at this point in time, i just dont enjoy the run and gun gameplay. player speed is too fast, animations and acceleration are all instantaneous, per-client movement replication seems poor very often, etc etc

[mild fern]

tbh i think a large portion of the games problems would be solved if we just had better maps

like, smg medic is king because everywhere worth being is within 50m (and most are even closer than that)

so ofc smg medic is good. especially for the move speed to running simulator everywhere since 1) vehicles suck 2) teammates suck 3) there's a lot of just random open space you have to cross right in front of sniper positions

[bleak berry]

Most weapons are not even effective enough past that range to be worth it

The ranges for weapons has been stupidly compressed compared to their real world counterparts... except for smgs

[strong epoch]

maps wont change the 20+mph playerspeed. combined with the lack of momentum and inertia, it just really doesnt vibe with me. even with some sort of momentum, player speed being so high means bullets feel very slow very often (if you feel like handgun hitreg is crappy, its actually because of how slow the bullets travel relative to player speeds. the difference is way too large)

[bleak berry]

So the choices are smgs, maybe ars if you want to mix things up, and then sniper rifles for every range

[mild fern]

ehhh, i'd argue 12 ar's and 3 smgs being usable out to ~80m minimum isn't that bad. and most of the ar's are actually good out to their actual damage drop off ranges but you have to stop spraying

[bleak berry]

Contrasted with the irl effective range of m249s which is fucking 800m+

[strong epoch]

no, i got that backwards. the difference between player speed and handgun bullet speed is way too small. i.e. players are way closer to the speed of your USP bullet than they need to be

[mild fern]

dmr's need a full on rework (please remove fire rate cap, daddy wants to jitter click). glint needs to be adjusted. and we really do need better maps. when the maps i have fun on are tensa, frugis, and namak (guess which class basically doesn't exist on those maps), that should tell you there's a problem with how everything interacts

[bleak berry]

Oh yea, here is another part of the problem that is often overlooked

[strong epoch]

i dunno about removing the firerate cap, but it certainly could be way higher at the cost of more hori recoil

[bleak berry]

Squad spawning is a contributing factor to why 99% of fights are under 50m

[mild fern]

find a good solution to replace it. where i don't have to run for 3 minutes every time i respawn and we're good

[mild fern]

don't be afraid. just let it happen

[bleak berry]

The whole game has been inadvertently designed to promote and reward sub 100m and particularly sub 50m engagements

[mild fern]

tbf i think part of the engagement range problem is that you can't even use mid range scopes on the ar's because even the most stable ar (the acr) kicks so hard i have to pull down like i'm using the scorpion

*when using a mid range scope

it's fuckin insane

[strong epoch]

but since this is the sniper rifle forum, ill go ahead and put my unpopular 2 cents out there; nerfing sniper rifles' extreme long range capabilites will invariably make it harder to un-fuck DMRs

[bleak berry]

There have been quite a few, but part of the issue is getting other players onboard. Most oppose changing squad spawning on principal because they dont believe any other method can get then their dopamine kick of spawning right at the frontlines

Essentially, squad spawning is the tiktok of spawning systems

[mild fern]

yeah the problem is designing a system that works well. i'm down for a change it just needs to not be always spawning at main base. (Especially if my team is sitting on enemy spawn, dear god don't make me run cross map i will just leave)

[strong epoch]

the way i see it; long range scopes having any glint at all pushes the vast majority of sniper rifle users to use medium range scopes. this, in turn, pushes them to play at the sort of ranges you would otherwise expect to find DMRs, not bolt action rifles. The playerbase at large dislikes sniper rifles doing sniping things (seems dumb if you ask me) and demand they are unusable and extreme ranges, but then turn around with a surprised pikachu face when DMRs feel useless

[mild fern]

my main issue with snipers is map related. a lot of maps funnel you certain ways (even on flanks). so if a recon sets up in the right spot you just, can't ever flank, can't do anything but run into the meatgrinder until your team wins or loses. this is especially awful if your team sucks and you HAVE to flank to give your team a chance in the meatgrinder.

[bleak berry]

There are not enough vehicles available close to the center of the map nor is spawning on points accessible because just a single person can shut the whole point down.

if atvs spawn regularly near the ship on basara and you could spawn on the point reliably then spawning there while your team is at the back of the map is much less of an issue (of course your team is less likely to be at the back of the map with removal of squad spawning and so travel will be shorter on average because of tbis)

[strong epoch]

aye. in this regard i think waki actually does pretty well despite how hated it is. It has plenty of routes, both central and outskirt, that provide cover and route-variability that make it much harder for snipers to bip you, assuming they can even see that corridor

[bleak berry]

But if course you have goobers who dont want their gripping gameplay of popping out of some dude hiding in a bush and contesting the back points for the entire match to be nerfed

[mild fern]

yeah making changes like that would go a long way. (also giving vehicles working suspension so they don't just stop everytime they hit an edge)

[bleak berry]

Oh my god, yea. Vehicles need to stop being bricks on wheels

[strong epoch]

BBR x The Crew Motorfest???

[vagrant thistle]

glint system is shit needs reworked cause only useful scopes are medium rn

[mild fern]

yeah. the only issue i have on waki is on frontline trying to push off the bridge onto D flag. the entire right side of the map just ends up having like 20 snipers so you can't use the sides of the bridge to approach, you can't hop off the side of the bridge to use the barriers. you just have to try and brute force the meatgrinder

idk how i'd adjust that side of the map to help with that, but it needs something

you can't even like, run forward to push because the snipers have just enough elevation to see your shoulders+head as you run between cars

[past snow]

There are some ways to flank in waki

You can climb up the cliff with ropes etc.

[mild fern]

frontline waki is just fucked in general. the south spawn side can basically just sprint straight through the enemy team nbd and win (i've seen 5 minute matches end that way), but the north spawn side can't do the same

[past snow]

and most waki snipers are so god awful they don't realize when they are flanked

[mild fern]

because of the stalemate at the end of the bridge

[strong epoch]

yeah. i also really dislike the update it got. F being closer to C makes both points more chaotic in a bad way, and frankly the redesign of F is shite. Having places below a point that still count as "inside" the point are always awful. And for fuck's sake make more use of that map. unlock the other side of the river, even if its not used for an obj, and put an obj to the west and get rid of the god-awful log storage area. make it interesting out there

[mild fern]

yeah the new tunnel is ass

[past snow]

at this point what update actually made the map better?

[mild fern]

idek if the district update made district a better map because i just go to b for the entire game lol

[past snow]

new district is ass

[bleak berry]

Next update wakistan gets improved by being deleted

[mild fern]

^ i'm fine with this

replace it with something else

try again

[past snow]

plot twist: the new one is worse

[mild fern]

kekw

[strong epoch]

none. release-day waki was just fine. people were just unfamiliar with BBR as a whole, and hopped on expecting battlefield, not something thats between battlefield and squad. the moment they didnt get instant action the moment they spawned and instead had to spend an entire 15 long seconds running, they complained

[past snow]

with how updated maps seem to go I don't trust vil to cook up better maps lmao

[mild fern]

tbh a lot of my map complaints with recon is from frontline. i have a lot less issues now that i'm forced to play 64vs64

[past snow]

32v32*

[mild fern]

nah i can still find central us 64's

[past snow]

I keep hearing how recons are broken because they just camp the bluezone from 32v32 players

[strong epoch]

im still chilling in 127v127 with my- no wait i prestiged so now its SSG69 not MSR T_T

[past snow]

Meanwhile I don't see that shit happen in 127v127 or 64v64

[mild fern]

play valley 127 frontline. if the north side team gets the push going i think the 2nd or 3rd set of obj's is all in sight of snipers on the hill with a windmill on it and it's still in their safezone

it's probably the worst frontline map, and frontline sandy is turbo dogshit too

[past snow]

I don't blame them, the game was advertised as being roblox battlefield even if the devs didn't mean it to be advertised that way

[past snow]

Even as a sniper play I skip valley frontline

I skip sandy most of the time as well

[mild fern]

it's the hill overlooking the silo's, the safezone extends part way down the hill so you can't even get to a covered position and try to throw frags or c4. you're just in open space

[strong epoch]

its kinda funny tbh. the first time I played 64v64 after playing only 127v127 for a couple hundred hours, i hated it. sure, fewer players, but the maps are also smaller. i was constantly getting sniped, even as recon. was not fun. 127v127 has more players, but the maps are bigger. sniper rifles ARE NOT HITSCAN, the further a sniper is from you, the harder it is for them to shoot you. it doesnt get easier the further a sniper is, they just eventually start dealing more damage with distance

[mild fern]

yeah both of those maps in frontline are ass. and to your point about bigger maps. it's even easier to dodge them because a lot of them start going for 1k meter shots and they suck balls at it

[past snow]

Keep in mind that muzzle velocities in this game make no fucking sense

[strong epoch]

whenever people complain about a sniper being off in some corner, why complain about that? its harder for them to shoot you, much less nail you in the head. what, you want them to hit you more often?

[past snow]

Most of the time games fucking reduce muzzle velocities compared to irl, in BBR they are faster

which is made up with the insane speed and acceleration of players

but it leads to other problems oki surely never thought about

[strong epoch]

at least in regard to sniper rifles, thats a good thing until player speed gets brought down. L96 ingame has what, 20% faster velocity compared to irl? thats nothing compared to how much faster the players are compared to actual humans, much less weighed-down soldiers

[mild fern]

i'll take less movement speed if it means my soldier remembers that he drilled on reloading his weapon so there's no universe where it takes 5 seconds to reload anything with a fucking magazine

[strong epoch]

now that ive prestiged and gone back to my SSG69, if someone gets within 50m of me, i have no choice but to give up. all they need to do is wiggle and juke, playerspeed + no momentum means i just cant hit them. its a better use of my energy to just let them kill me and I respawn somewhere else

[past snow]

cause your soldier reloads like they are shooting the shit and drinking beer at the range with the boys

[mild fern]

i made that joke months ago 😭

[past snow]

same braincell moment

[strong epoch]

i cry in MSR extended mag + bipod being second slowest reload in the entire game

[mild fern]

man is reloading like he has parkinsons i swear

[strong epoch]

FOR 8 FUCKIN BULLETS

[past snow]

MSR's stats make no sense lmao

isn't MSR supposed to be a lightweight sniper irl?

[strong epoch]

i think so

[past snow]

honestly looking at the design and balance choices as a whole I'm not surprised the player count is dropping the way it is

especially considering the main thing oki focused on during this time was community servers

[strong epoch]

its a pretty god damn modern rifle, especially for a Lapua magnum rifle. its more or less cream of the crop. getting handed that as a sharpshooter in the military is the same as getting handed the keys to a ferrari as a taxi driver

[past snow]

but in BBR it feels like you got a downgrade lmao

[strong epoch]

yep. at 3300 kills with it, yeah i eventually just gave up on having any sort of agility with it. i use the bipod on it now, even with a medium scope

im never going to run fast or reload quickly with it no matter what underbarrel i use, might as well get the recoil (and what should also be sway) benefits from deploying my bipod

also just feels more satisfying. i dont like the way the game incentivises snipers with bolt-actions to constantly run around the map (thats what a DMR should be used for), so just laying down in a nice patch of grass with my bipod is my way of coping lol

[past snow]

that's just how snipers are balanced in fps games

you disable them from being able to camp sightlines with shit like glint

but if you are oki you also nerf their movement speed etc. so they get shafted both ways

https://tenor.com/view/gamedesign-shimtex-meme-shimtex-meme-gamedesign-video-gif-16295948

[strong epoch]

yep. i personally would rather being vulnerable to getting run the fuck down by an AR than have to deal with glint. i can at least attempt to counter the AR crackhead, but i cant counter glint (except by using a medium scope lol). in this game, we have both! hooray!... :(

also holy fuck remove the reticle movement when bolting during ADS. its a totally pointless "advantage" of the later bolts if it moves my reticle and I have to wait for it to settle anyway

[past snow]

I get why glint exists, for your target it really is a frustrating experience when they suddenly get killed by someone they had no idea was there. But if you turn glint into a fucking lighthouse it's unfair for the sniper. It should be there to give people who are in immediate danger a warning that they might get shot, not to tell the entire server you are at a certain place.

[strong epoch]

to be fair, thats kind of the point of snipers, especially in a game that inverts the sniper rifle damage curve

[bleak berry]

Can we take a moment to appreciate the extreme ignorance of the playerbase that they believed and often repeated the advice that "headshots dont reveal where you are to your target"

this was often cited as a reason for glint "well they need to be able to know where you are because if you get headshot you wont know"

[strong epoch]

the harder you make it for snipers to do proper sniping, the harder they will push back with ways that just annoy people more

[past snow]

For the original vision of the game? Yes certainly but we've moved away from that game. This is one of the biggest problems with the game right now. It has an identity problem.

[vast sandal]

If you get headshot, the fight is already over...

[bleak berry]

Revives man

[strong epoch]

less of an identity problem and more of a "just separate the two gamemodes" problem

[vast sandal]

literally irrelevant lmfao.

You can't just say "this is ok because once you die you know where they are!"

[past snow]

Until those two are separated it is an identity problem

[vast sandal]

like by then the fight is over. Death is the end of the engagement.

[strong epoch]

no?

[bleak berry]

Well, "its ok because once you die you know where they are as does your entire group"

[past snow]

Walk the man was making a comment about the playerbase

not how sniper engagements work

[strong epoch]

dudes treating this game like a "one life and youre out" sort of game

[vast sandal]

using that as a justification for x or y is literally only relevant in a battle royale or game like tarkov

The idea of snipers being balanced around the idea of "you can figure out their location by dying to them" is laughable.

[strong epoch]

thats.... not what anyone is saying they need to be balanced around

[past snow]

Bro really just did not understand what the point was

[strong epoch]

and to be honest, the death cam pointing at your assailant IS an extremely effective way of countering snipers for those who know its a thing

[past snow]

literally why people hate death cams when playing with snipers

[strong epoch]

i cannot count the number of times Im off in a corner, and after enough kills, someone uses the deathcam pointing to find out where I am and then im stuck with a fly buzzing around my general vicinity for the rest of the match

[bleak berry]

But yea, its not all that hard to track down if not the general location but even the precise window or balcony or what have you if you got shot at... even if you got headshot.

So long as you are not out in an open field alone you can then generally relay that info to your team and get revived and then a freindly recon player can countersnipe

I have participated in every role of this interavtion many times

[final gust]

I'd agree with you but uhh, lives literally don't matter

[bleak berry]

You generally get like one free kill on one person in a group or maybe two if they take a while to react. Technically, not even a kill because they just get revived

[final gust]

Winning/losing or doing objectives also don't matter at all

In fact, anything but kills stop mattering at 200

I would say getting squad points matter but 80% of the time the SL doesn't know they're SL

[strong epoch]

yep. its so hilariously opposite of how it works in any milsim title. the fact that you can generally find a sniper at all flies directly in the face of what sniping actually is, and people take that way for granted

[bleak berry]

Like really, the biggest benefit for your team that you perform during this interaction is you suppress the enemies into taking cover and distract them into attempting to countersnipe you instead of focussing on more immediate threats

[strong epoch]

both IRL and in most milsim games, even a subpar sniper wont get found outside of a case of bad luck. the difference between different skill levels of sniping in said games is almost always measured in kills, not in their ability to stay "ghosted"

[vast sandal]

not particularly. Snipers don't have to rely on stealth to do their job; their job is area denial via punishment by instant death, usually from ranges that make it hard to contest them.

Glint can even help them accomplish that in some situations, ie, you can make a player decide to go through a building instead of around the outside simply by him seeing your glint. Just by existing you can deny an area. Although it's often an intangible consequence, it is observable.

[strong epoch]

eh. not really, at least not in BBR. anybody who knows how to throw their mouse across their desk can more or less cross any open field free of concern of the sniper who just put one bullet in you. if you can have a seizure, they probably wont land the next shot. area denial unsuccessful

and in my experience, its not the people crossing from one obj to another who get really annoyed by snipers. its the people who are already on obj or in firefights and get their head taken off that are the most likely to complain. snipers are currently more suited to assault and defense than to area denial

[bleak berry]

Yea, right now the better role that snipers fulfil is suppression and cracking open fortified positions by cracking open skulls

[strong epoch]

yep. and, if you ask me, thats the niche that DMRs should fill. but people dont like it when snipers snipe, so bolt action rifles have been nerfed into that niche instead

[bleak berry]

Nobody fucking takes potshots and randos crossing fields unless there is nothing better to do. Even without glint, the tracers will start to give you away to anyone who keeps their eyes open and on a lookout

[vast sandal]

I don't really have any problem with area denial. Pretty much my entire FPS philosophy revolves around map control, and with snipers that map control can be held at a near indefinite range. I've choked off entire sections of a map by myself and had a noticeable impact on how the enemy spread out.

You can do it with DMRs as well, but the bolts are more effective if you hit your headshots consistently

[strong epoch]

haha this 100%. if I take a potshot at someone who is just crossing between objs, its likely because I cannot see anyone else at that moment

[bleak berry]

I have gotten rather decent at hitting headshots on moving targets and i still dont do it often because its usually better to instead commit medic genocide on the ball of them healing each other behind that rock or wall or such

[strong epoch]

pretty much the definition of "what the fuck else is there to do". and frankly i think bolt actions should be a "low-intensity" role. a DMR should be for people who want to snipe but dont want to be bored. a bolt action, tho, should be very specialised and should be for much longer-range, less frequent engagements. as walk said, area denial. but then theres the glint that will invariably force you into much more frequent, closer range engagements because its completely antithetical to the point of sniping

eugh yeah, especially with the all-classes self healing update. that shit fucked bolt actions over harder than any other gun type. took the "danger" of getting sniped out of getting sniped

it was already annoying to shoot a medic who could literally just ignore that damage and move on. now anyone with a couple of bandages can do the same. definitely showed the lack of perspectives when you have a 3-person dev team

personally, i think the self healing for all classes should have been left at stopping the bleeding, and have that heal 60 damage instead of 40. being able to just top your health fully off and go find an ammo box or supply crate took the main complaint about medic and just gave it to everyone. medic self healing needed to be nerfed, we did not need to instead give it to everyone

[bleak berry]

It still has had an improvement imo. over 90% of players playing medic was a problem (if we believe their intended goal is that every class be roughly equal in power), but definitely the system still needs work.

[strong epoch]

yeah for sure, it was a step in the right direction. for most people. but it fucked snipers more than it helped them, and also took that "fear factor" of getting shot because you were careless, which BBR used to do very well, and neutered it heavily

[bleak berry]

Ehh, i guess i can agree somewhat. However, i feel like it mostly just nerfed something that wasnt very strong anyways which was, as mentioned previously, potshots against enemies crossing open fields

It definitely has made open fields much safer

But i dont feel they were all that dangerous in the first place

[strong epoch]

i think it just deleted it entirely. there used to be at least some point to taking those shots; if you hit, they will not want to then run directly at you, and they will also probably die if they dont find a medic before their next engagement. might not sound like much, but that used to be a genuine factor i would consider when crossing fields when not playing as a sniper. now, not only can that person make a bee-line towards you even if your shot does connect, but they can pretty much undo your shot even if they choose to go the other way. they arent punished in their next engagement because they got careless

back to the area denial thing, it sort of took that whole effect away from snipers. if theres no legitimate punishment for carelessly crossing a field with no cover from snipers, you cant deny said field area. they really dont have anything to fear except getting that unlikely first-shot headshot

[vast sandal]

that sounds more like a you problem I hit those shots

[strong epoch]

thats great sweetie. not everyone is you

[vast sandal]

that's fine, but don't talk about it as a "sniper problem" when it's a "iamnumber31" problem

snipers are still insanely powerful area denial tool, the bandages change was not a nerf to snipers at all

[strong epoch]

well, i get the feeling you wont agree with me regardless of how I reply, so you enjoy your shot-hitting

[vast sandal]

In this case, no I won't, because to me it's absurd trying to argue that a weapon which can insta-kill at any range in the game is not a good area denial tool. It's just not an argument with any basis in reality

[steady mist]

Maps could use more horizontal objectives

[weak rapids]

Snipers are really weak right now. Have you even played TF2? As sniper you can throw your piss at enemies. I want the ability to fart in BBR, the said fart pushes back all enemies rushing you as a sniper. 🙏

[steady mist]

Spread out the players accross a line instead of this tug of war bs

[vast sandal]

We are literally not playing the same game...

[strong epoch]

(admitting to having already decided "i am correct, you are wrong" is not something to brag about)

[strong epoch]

so like, the converse of basra? am i understanding correctly?

[steady mist]

Like dusty dew or whatever that circle map is

[strong epoch]

oh. i hate dusty. but mostly because no map should ever both surrounded AND itself surround such raised ridges. the fog on that map sucks ass, but without it the map would be sniper hell. its a fundamentally flawed map imo

[steady mist]

The map is ass but the flow is cool

[vast sandal]

My stance was decided before you even replied? I made my stance about map control clear over 30 minutes ago. I have my own gameplay as evidence to back this up as well as how other snipers affect my own gameplay(in that they force me into taking specific routes).

You are welcome to disagree, but your arguments very much revolve around the fact you are personally unable to hit your shots and applying that to snipers as a weapon class instead of realizing it's a personal attribute

[strong epoch]

but yeah the way it isnt just a linear tug of war is fun

[strong epoch]

so in other words your personal experience with your gameplay holds more value than mine?

[vast sandal]

Yea this I can agree with. Dusty as a map is awful no matter what your playstyle

[bleak berry]

Im... conflicted. I like basara because it forces a fight in the center, however we dont really have tug of war because it devolves into back-capping by both sides.

we dont really have dense tugs of war in the center with people spread out along the flanks trying to outmanuever the other team. Instead we have dense blobs of overwhelming numbers at the rear points. Its like the worst of both worlds

[steady mist]

Frontlines

[strong epoch]

eh, basra should force a fight in the centre, but current spawning mechanics circumvent that entirely. D obj on basra is invariably backcapped for 80+% of any given match

[bleak berry]

I stand by the opinion that frontlines is one of the better modes. They just need to slow down cap speed a bit so you cant lose in the blink of an eye

But other than that frontlines is a lot of fun

[strong epoch]

probably, but personally its not the pace of gameplay I am looking for when I click 127v127, so its kind of a bummer when it gets picked. but thats just me

[bleak berry]

Its just way too snowbally

Ehh, squad spawning also contributes massively to the snowbally nature of it but it is still one if the better modes, arguably the best

[strong epoch]

which i guess tbf is partly the fault of only ever getting conq and having that experience-bias from so many games of conquest as more or less my mental image of what 127v127 is "supposed" to be

[mild fern]

there's exactly 1 127vs frontline server on NA, if it ever had 30ms for me i'd play that always

[vast sandal]

I don't want to be rude.. but yea. If you lack the basic skills required to use something correctly, basing your opinion on your limited skills is a very poor way to form an understanding of it. You should be basing your opinion on how players who are good enough to use it correctly.

It would be insane for me to hop in a manual car and declare it unable to drive after fumbling with the clutch for a few minutes due to my lack of experience. It's no different if you are hopping on a sniper rifle and simply aren't good enough to be a threat, then claiming it's a bad area denial tool.

[strong epoch]

if i recall, your tendency to just assume its a "skill issue" on the other party's part with an incredible lack of information or context caused the spawning mechanics thread to devolve into barbarism before getting temporarily closed, no?

[vast sandal]

I disagree on it being a bad area denial tool because even as someone who is highly skilled I recognize that I actively avoid the sightlines because the risk of being headshot is high enough for it to influence my gameplay; nevermind when I'm the one on the sniper myself and doing the area denial with greater effeciency than virtually any I would encounter myself.

[strong epoch]

dont assume its just because I cant hit every single shot on a 20mph medic 800m away that im a "bad sniper"

if you can, that makes you good, not everyone else bad

[vast sandal]

if I can it means the weapon class can.

[bleak berry]

Dont bother with him, he will get the thread locked

[strong epoch]

yeah, and Lewis Hamilton can rush any car around a race track as fast as the car can possibly go. so you have no excuse to not also be able to do that

right?

[vast sandal]

Wrong.

[strong epoch]

correct. that is wrong

glad we can agree

[vast sandal]

I can't do it. But the car can.

Which is my point. So thank you for agreeing with me, I think

when I make it around the track and have a poor time, I know that I am to blame, not that my car is incapable of making the trip in a faster time. That is the point I am making.

[bleak berry]

And just because something can do something doesnt mean it is good at it.

regardless, both of you should stop. Arguing about skills and whether it is an issue or not is irrelevant

[strong epoch]

no lol. you have already pointed out just how skilled you are many times in the past. you are not a good barometer of the average player. and you are also, as a result, not the primary group that things should be balanced around

[vast sandal]

I am the primary group the game should be balanced around. Every single decently balanced game is always balanced around the top 1% of players.

Every competent dev team designs around average players, but balances around the best players. That is a critical design philosophy, DOUBLY so for FPS games.

[strong epoch]

balancing and nerfing arent always the same thing

im not saying the top% shouldnt be considered. that would be stupid. but the core balance of the gameplay still needs to be balanced around the core playerbase

like, if sniper rifles only did 20 damage except always killed with headshots, the top% players wouldnt really care. theyll hit those headshots anyway. would still feel very bad to the extreme majority of players

[vast sandal]

Nope. The gameplay is designed around the average player; but the balance itself is around the top 1%(who by the way, are always core players).

This isn't just me saying this; this is a literal core philosophy for virtually all successful multiplayer games. You cannot balance around average players who are incapable of using kits or weapons or classes or whatever to any adequate degree. Even casual games balance around their best players.

You can go ahead and google all this yourself if you want, you will find plenty of developer commentry on the topic. Most MP games try to design around the idea of "easy to pickup, hard to master", making it fun for casual/avg players, but then when it comes to balance will tune specifically around what they see when in the best players lobbies. Because the best players are the ones who will use the characters, weapons, classes, or whatever, to their extremes; average players make so many other gameplay mistakes that balance is literally 100% irrelevant to them.

[novel yew]

you again?? accusing people trying to debate of ''skill issue'' and calling yourself the top 1%??

wtf is wrong with you, please mute this guy instead of locking another thread because this 13 year old.

I just blocked him, and I advise all of you to do the same.

I can't believe he is being as toxic as he was in the spawning mechanics threads, and the mods instead of punishing their delicate patreon backer snowflake, punish everyone else by locking a thread.

btw, you can't expect too much regarding game balance, the single dev of this game is a medic SMG main, and if you read the patch notes with that in mind you can see the clear bias.

''oh this smg is not strong enough, I'm going to buff it, DMRs? whats that??''

''Oh yeah I hate when the new item those losers playing loser's classes place break my grenades, I'll fix that''

''fuck, I got sniped again and I can't stop sprinting and jumping around the map to check where the sniper is, I better increase the muzzle flash''.

''Oh yeah I should I buff this weapon in the ''personal defense category'' that totally aren't SMGs, they need some loves...what is that DMRs thing I keep hearing about? no idea, let me buff this other SMG''

[mild fern]

imagine being mad 3 devs haven't instantly updated everything that's wrong with the game

it's not like dmr's need an actual full rework and not just random stats thrown at them

it's not like there's serious issues with the gameplay loop that require actual thought to resolve

game is in early access. chill the doomer crybaby shit

[bleak berry]

To be fair, oki has straight up said defense is unrewarding because he prefers to run around attacking and shooting people or something to that effect

So i can understand the frustration if that is the attitude of a dev

[mild fern]

to be fair, i like playing defense on the objectives in front of the enemy base because that's where i get the most combat without it being an absolute cluster fuck. turns out meatgrinder is a novelty that quickly wears out it's welcome

[novel yew]

oh so you have no idea what you are talking about, I guess the zergs running around in circles capturing empty points it's totally Ok.

got it

[mild fern]

nice dent in your head you got there buddy

can't read or comprehend shit huh?

[novel yew]

you have a loli in your picture dude, stfu

This game is doomed unless they bring some developers with less of a bias and get less people trying to make excuses for them

you are not helping the game, you are allowing it's death

[mild fern]

oh that's a new one. the final fantasy white mage is a loli now?

[bleak berry]

Guys, lets chill out

[mild fern]

"you are not helping the game" yea, you having a full meltdown in discord is really helping the game too. how about some constructive feedback instead of mental booming over what got updated?

[vast sandal]

He's far too busy being livid at me for some reason, I don't even know who the hell he is

[mild fern]

i think he rage left the discord after he threw a fit because he couldn't be bothered to read what was typed

[vast sandal]

Oh no. Anyway

back to wondering how to restructure snipers in a way that leaves more than 2 options I guess

[vagrant thistle]

Jesus wtf happened here

[vagrant thistle]

I have some thoughts on this

prolly like a fast "low damage sniper"

like good movement and bolt speed and stuff

(ssg 69 and rem700 prolly)

big boi sniper (slow movement, ads and bolt but big damage and velocity (m200, MSR)

and prolly some jack of all trades type snipers

I think as long as their are multiple niches for snipers to fill it doesn't matter if some snipers are upgrades over each other

would be better than what it is right now

that in addition with reworking glint so long range scopes actually have a use (and nerf medium scopes a bit) should make snipers better on the sending and receiving end

[mild fern]

i like the suggestion for glint to be a more narrowed focus, so that only someone you're aiming near will see it

alongside bug fixes for glint being visible through objects

[vagrant thistle]

yeah that would be nice

if there was a way to make medium scopes have glint (only on snipers) but while being less obvious than the long range ones that would work

[atomic hill]

Medium scopes having any kind of glint would be horrible unless they removed the ability of other snipers to see reduced medium scope glint as a way to appease sniper sensitive infantry.

Otherwise it will promote m200 counter sniping from barricade forts over aggressive infantry sniping. I'm skeptical, but that would be a preferable implementation.

[vast sandal]

If the glint is in a small enough FOV(ie, only that of the scope itself) it would be fine. That just means you wouldn't want to sit in someone's LOS and stare at them for an extended period of time.

I've talked about it in the past but 2 stages of glint would be a huge benefit; stage1 is a very small, barely visible glint that's at like 60 FOV for long range scopes(instead of the much larger current FOV) with the current glint being stage2 which is only visible in your scopes FOV.

Medium scopes would either stay as is, or only have stage1, but in their scopes FOV instead of 60, so it's there, but only if the target is looking at you while you are looking at them, and it won't be nearly as noticeable as the current glint.

[atomic hill]

That'd be OK if medium scopes were removed from just the m200. If not I fear the highest velocity sniper will still see a disproportionate benefit.

[knotty nova]

If they go down that road, they better make the transition between Binos and sniper quick or instant otherwise sniper class might just fucking die.

[vast sandal]

Don't think so. Faster ADS speed would likely be more useful to mitigate it. But I also think the M200 needs a large velocity nerf and one of the other snipers need a huge increase in velocity, to give them seperate niches(either choose really accurate long range sniper, or 1hko anything even support). Imo th best long range sniper should have really slow rechambering(aka fire rate), high velocity but I don't think it should also have the highest damage

[past snow]

Binos are just a bad idea

At least with the current pace of the game

You don't have time to scout with binos, pull out your gun and fire

[vast sandal]

eh they have a pretty solid use for countersniping if you are at long range

[knotty nova]

Oh I’m not disagreeing with this at all, the M200 (which I haven’t unlocked as of yet but can’t wait to) should be solely with long range.
Medium range on this bulldozer if a sniper makes the shooter quasi invincible.

[past snow]

Oh yeah the ONE instance where your target will stay still

[vast sandal]

I don't use them myself but if I was trying to countersnipe on 1-1.5km using a longer range scope I'd do it

[past snow]

they are completely shit otherwise and take an equipment slot

[vast sandal]

I agree. I'd rather have a pickaxe or grapple hook than binos, both those are great in certain spots especially for more aggressive positioning

[past snow]

You can do something similar to planetside 2's cloak, where you cannot shoot without being seen but you can switch to being able to shoot quickly

[knotty nova]

Binos are right now but shouldn’t really. At the end, sniper class is not meant to be on the front line.
Give me a lower glint with tighter FOV (when enemy is facing you) and allow me a quick transition between my binos and weapon and fuck I would be set.

But that’s me, I know not everyone will agree with that.

[past snow]

You shouldn't be on the frontlines yes but you also should not be forced to be 500 m away from the action either

[knotty nova]

Indeed

[past snow]

The game is based around objectives, so each class should be able to do something to affect them

[knotty nova]

I typically place myself 100-200 or 300 away from a point. My squad get a respawn point if properly located so when they spawn, I don’t become a target.

But objective to me makes no sense since we typically run the game until either side exhausted their respawn. Yes capturing areas are fine since that’s where most of the action will happen but one map I can think of (the desert one I can’t remember the name) is a good example of that. You camp at an area and allow your team to respawn, you scope out and if it happens to be beyond the range you are, your shot (if not dead on) will still pinpoint your location to counter snipers or other player that you didn’t see while ADS.

What I’m trying to say is, I wish the class would get along more than what seems to be happening right now.

A guy(or gal) that picks assaulter would be expected to push through the meatgrinder. The medic to heal and revive, etc etc. Snipers are expected to shoot from far, that’s the gig. Yes if no one is around, I b-line it to the objective to capture it but fucking return straight to where I was since capturing the objective will attract the enemies.

But fuck right now, finding a consensus on issues like class is already a problem. Everyone seems to be shitting on each other’s class because they don’t play “their way” of playing the game.

I sure as shit wouldn’t want to be a developer. Kudos to these guys!
(Edit: typos)

[bleak berry]

everyone seems to be shitting on each other's class because they dont play "their way" of playing the game

i only shit on medics who dont pick people up or heal others 😒

[vagrant thistle]

medics who actually medic are based

[wide vault]

Sorry, glint on medium scopes is a terrible idea, you'd have it on rifles and DMRs as well. Having separate features for equipment based on what it's mounted in is an administrative and balance nightmare and makes everything far less consistent

Lowering the accuracy, zeroing or messing with other stats is a much better and more consistent way of dealing with the (non)issue of using medium scopes on SRs, or just remove their ability to use medium scopes at all and give them a 4x-6x adjustable "long" scope

[weak rapids]

Only fat bald people want 4x scope to have glint

[worn idol]

Isn't glint a forced passive for the recon class only, so how would it break other classes?

[wide vault]

No, it's long scopes, if you use a 6x on a DMR it gets glint too

[strong epoch]

i never once saw anyone who was saying sniper rifles needed stronger muzzle flash, and I know there was immediate pushback when they randomly announced that sniper rifles will be getting stronger muzzle flash. So the fact that they are outright ignoring player feedback is rather frustrating. I could already see muzzle flash from sniper rifles at 1600m. I really do not think it needs to be even stronger

[past snow]

Oki when he needs to balance something other than braindead smg medic playstyle:

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-dumb-gif-20952040

[strong epoch]

i also find it odd that its marked simply as "stronger muzzle flash" for "sniper rifles" when the dev updates have been honestly wonderfully transparent when its regarding literally any other weapon stat (for fucks sake, even in that same dev update note, the SG550's muzzle flash scale was given in actual numerics). The lack of specificity here feels almost intentional

[past snow]

As I've said before, reading oki's patch notes is the leading cause of brain damage in this community

"Leaning spam has been nerfed"

[strong epoch]

well, ive now seen a video of said nerf, and it is definitely a nerf. just oki chose to be vague in this particular case for some reason

[safe dagger]

what did they change.

[strong epoch]

#1138401442449854515 message

[safe dagger]

Thanks

[placid pollen]

from what ive noticed oki seems to hate stuff thats supossed to be strong and makes stuff thats supossed to be weak strong

[past snow]

from what I've seen and heard oki doesn't really have a good idea about anything outside of his playstyle

which is the aforementioned smg medic

[placid pollen]

makes shooter that quickly grows to be loved
doesnt care about anything else but his playstyle
why game dying?

i remember playing a free weekend of insurgency sandstorm, and boy was the shotgun fun with flechette rounds (basically 3 metal rods in a shell) but it was only good up to like id say max 50 meters cuz then it got hard to aim and only for singular targets since if there were more youd get shot pumping the next round

nvm, its not 3 metal rods, its a bunch of mini death arrows 💀

[bleak berry]

only good up to 50 meters

Sounds about right using irl shotguns as a comparison, little bit longer than the "1 meter spread at 30 meters" range" standard 😍

[placid pollen]

it might hit even further but the spread might be too big and its just hard to aim

every modern game thats not a milsim basically has to nerf shotguns into the ground because if they added the real thing youd clap anyone up to 50 meters

thats why you got stuff like CoD where the shotgun is a death machine up to like 5 meters then its a tickle machine

[bleak berry]

Shotguns generaly do pretty poorly against armor... which really just shows how basic games are when it comes to modeling damage and health.

one of my friends regularly makes fun of siege where your character could be wearing a big chunky helmet with ballistic glass visor and shit and oops a dinky 9m grazed your ear and now you die

I have complaints about battlebit's armor system for battlebit but the system itself is like perfect for tactical shooters. Siege would feel a whole lot less random to me if headshots were not instantly lethal because of an armor system like bbr.

i know rook gives people armor but nothing protects your head so it ends up feeling cheap

[placid pollen]

i mean yeah but siege aint supossed to be realistic, and its fine because everyone has an equal chance. but yeah its annoying when a shitter drags across your head and manages to land one singular shot on it

[bleak berry]

Yea, helmets are great. Siege would feel a lot better with them. Bbr problem with armor is more the fact that we dont have a way to replenish it so it just ends up being a debuf for the rest of your life once it is used up. Reworking to flat damage reduction would help with this.

It is kinda the issue with bbr. For a lot of things in the game it does them extremely well... if only it were a different game. The armor system as is is actually really nice if the game leaned harder towards being a tactical shooter or a milsim

[vast sandal]

Shotguns are generally nerfed/balanced to extremes because they are extremely low skill, but ridiculously effective weapons which don't particularly have counter-play.

If shotguns were balanced "as irl" they would just be the best weapon. This is doubly so because most FPS games are somewhat objective based, which means that shotguns can force CQC in virtually any engagement by simply staying near the obj and indoors.

In addition, simply slapping a "is negated by armor" condition on it does not make for engaging gameplay whatsoever. It ends up just being frustrating for both parties because instead of skill being the primary determining factor, it instead turns into a game of rocks, paper, scissors.

Generally shotguns are nerfed into oblivion because they are horrible and unfun to play against due to the 1 sided nature of them - similar to sniper rifles, except significantly lower skill to get good results with. And fighting against that level of effectiveness when there's no skill requirement is not fun, because you effectively become forced to abuse them yourself and their general low skill gameplay leads to incredibly stale and boring encounters/gameplay

[bleak berry]

idk man, fortnite handles shotguns pretty well. for any complaint made against fortnite it is actually a decently made game

its like people just forget information that doesnt agree with their biases

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mild fern]

I’ve never played fortnite but a friend of mine would laugh in your face for saying it handles shotguns well

I don’t think I’d want to use any gun that could deal 7 damage point blank

[bleak berry]

genuinely, it does with the exception of the drum shotgun

[white atlas]

KS-23 is good up to 70m with flechette, it's amazing

[vast sandal]

I don't know much about fortnite, but I do know that for a long time shotguns were effectively the only viable weapons. They've probably nerfed them tremendously since then.

I'm pretty sure they actually benched a bunch of shotguns for a whole season, though that was a long time ago.

[white atlas]

shotguns are pretty well balanced by its low rate of fire, small mag size, slow reload... it's basically a large bore sniper, except the damage spreads into pellets instead of being a single bullet. plenty of ways to balance that

[bleak berry]

It depends on the mode, no-build is better imo. In build modes burst damage and close range matters more because it is easier slap up cover and approach

But in no build the idea weapons from close to long range go something like

shotgun->smg->pistol->rifle->snipers

there are outliers and overlap, pistols in particular cover a wide range

[vast sandal]

None of those actually matter whatsoever in a gunfight for impulse weapons which have 1hko possibility.

They don't matter for snipers, either. low rate of fire, small mag size, or slow reload are all completely irrelevant and I have never even considered looking at those values for any sniper rifle I use.

I've used a ton of shotguns in other games too, and it's the same.. i've never looked at those values. What matters for shotguns are "can it 1hko", "what's the spread on pellets"(aka range). The rest is irrelevant.

[bleak berry]

But shotguns dont in fortnite. You can onoy ever 2 shot with them at best

Yea yea, different game with differnt ttk, mobility, etc... but fortnite shows you dont need 1shot shotguns for then to be very strong

[vast sandal]

Easy example is the double barrel shotgun from MW2019. Can it 1hko? Yep. What's it's spread/range? High? Cool.

Yea, it was basically unbeatable as all fuck as a result. It doesn't matter at all that it only had 2 rounds and a slow reload. Once it was nerfed, the next gun up was the spas? Been a while. It had a much slower rate of fire, and also a long reload, but again, it didn't matter because it had 1hko and decent range and that's all that matters for impulse weapons.

[white atlas]

but have you been using snipers in close quarters? they can do all that too

[vast sandal]

ok but that's not relevant to a game like BB, because this is a game with a fast TTK, it's not a slow TTK game like fortnite or apex. Shotguns WILL 1hko in a game like this otherwise they would be completely and utterly pointless because SMGs would be better always.

[balmy oar]

Im this close to just dm'ing the dude and asking for further details

[white atlas]

or, y'know, just play the game and try leanspamming

[vast sandal]

Yes. But they have a MASSIVE skill check relative to shotguns. Shotguns are a spread weapon that don't require precision and are balanced around center mass shots. Snipers require extreme precision(not quite as extreme in bb) to land the headshot.

The primary difference between shotguns and snipers is that skill check. Yea, you can die to a sniper in close range, but when it happens you know it happened because he hit a shot that where he was a MAJOR underdog. That doesn't apply to shotguns

[white atlas]

that so? make em 1hk when all the pellets headshot, then. ez

[vast sandal]

Then why waste the devtime at all when you've just implemented a sniper rifle with a 25m range?

[white atlas]

idk, why are there so much guns ingame that are pretty similar to each other?

[balmy oar]

Theres bound to be overlap within the same weapon class

[bleak berry]

Honestly idk why im getting baited into arguing about this. He just always shifts the goalposts or dodges points.

you are correct that snipers can do everything shotguns can

[vast sandal]

I haven't shifted goal posts at all. I distinctly dislike shotguns because of how easy they are to use combined with their power.. like that was one of the opening things I said.

Literally my first sentence

Shotguns are generally nerfed/balanced to extremes because they are extremely low skill, but ridiculously effective weapons which don't particularly have counter-play.

How have I moved my goalposts when that's literally where i started?

[versed plover]

and why are shotguns being discussed in the Sniper rifle feedback?

[bleak berry]

Who knows, these feedback threads have mostly said everything there is to say

[versed plover]

I guess, until they makes changes to address some of the issues with snipers we are gonna be talking about the most glaring problems

how does anyone feel about ramp up damage?

[steady mist]

Sweet spot mechanics don't belong in any game

Unless you mean how it is rn

[versed plover]

I feel in it's current state ramp up damage is not that impactful for most snipers as it takes around 550m at the lowest to start ramping up but that could be a symptom of people not using long range scopes that often

[bleak berry]

Idk, its mostly fine in fighting games. The issue with ramp up is it is less "sweet spot" and more "everything past this range is 1shot territory"

Its like... we have this ramp up which sort of encourages extreme range snipes and then most maps dont have those sorts of sightlines (for good reason i might add!).

so, it mostly feels superfluous to me and exists mostly as a way to make counter sniping easier at those ranges

[strong epoch]

this is the sniper rifles thread, no? am I lost?

[bleak berry]

Yes it is

[strong epoch]

phew! i thought i had lost my grasp of the english language

though i guess to bring it all full-circle, from what most people think shotguns are (from how they perform in, say CoD and BF and what have you), IRL shotguns might as well be straight up sniper rifles. Boom, all these squares make a circle

[vast sandal]

god tier pun

[wide hamlet]

It's fine. After a certain range the game says "alright good shot" and gives you the kill which isn't the worst thing they could do. I don't think most players are affected by it unless they're other long-range snipers. It's basically only an anti-sniper mechanic imo

[strong epoch]

an extremely excellent way of putting it. it keeps snipers from being overpowered as fuck at ranges where they would otherwise be 1-shot powerhouses, but doesnt take away from the game's incredibly satisfying extreme-range sniping experience

[formal lynx]

There’s a reason why people in cod just put iron sights on a SR and did very well in CQC

BBR trying to prevent that is fine by me

[upbeat flint]

i think the game just needs more traversal options to counter snipers, then snipers just need to find better hiding places

it would be amaaaazing if we could get a parachute, but that feedback prob belongs in a different channel

[vast sandal]

(it's because controllers have aimbot)

[formal lynx]

That also…

[strong epoch]

shh we dont talk about that

[bleak berry]

Base speed is already enough to generally counter snipers, lack of inertia is just the cherry on top

As for hiding places, the big issue is that sniping like that is a slower style in an inherently fast paced game. The big long lasting meatgrinder fights dont last long enough for a sniper to traverse to and set up in a power position. By the tine you do the fight usually moved on.

your best strat for that sort of playstyle is to try and set up way before a fight happens and hope a sustained fight pops up where you are prepared to overlook

[upbeat flint]

no, im talking about getting across the map, definitely not fast enough just running, and you get shot by enemy snipers lol

this is one of the ways the og bf 1942 countered snipers... if you can just drop on one because you have a parachute it makes it harder for them to stay in the open

parachutes, and more personal vehicles spawning imo

[past snow]

IIRC bf1942 does not have scope glint for snipers, so do you really need to be able to jump on top of them as well?

[upbeat flint]

yea they were still pretty powerful iirc as well

[formal lynx]

Just add bullet time to the first shot of any sniper toward you, so that you can dodge in slow motion /j

[sage ginkgo]

With a stronger muzzle flash, can we get a fix for the atrocious scope glint of long range scopes so we can actually use them without lighting a batsignal to 127 other players?

[wide oriole]

i really like the midrange scopes, but can we get ranges on the ACOG that make sense? (top of triangle = 0, bottom of the triangle 50 or 100 or something, first line 200 and so one) as is, the first line on the scope when on zero its somewhere around 500-600 iirc from my testing

i dunno if that fits here, but an alternative shooting range for snipers would be nice too so that the targets aren't clumped so close together and that there are some out further than 1000m so that we can test the scopes and what bullet drop fits to what line.

[desert bison]

according to what gun's bullet velocity?

[bleak berry]

"No, because fuck you."
-oki

I really havent been feeling the impact of snipers in game lately even on the traditionally good sniper maps. The meta is shifting away from them, not that they were particularly impactful anyways.

sniping is just really niche and the high movement speed and mobility of players and short respawns makes it hard for them to be an effective contribution. Snipers are great at cracking open fortified positions but those dont really form often or last long enough for a sniper to find a good angle and start plinking

[sage ginkgo]

There was never a sniper meta to begin with though, 80% of people were Medic. Including myself, because why would you play something else when you can self0heal. have 20 bandages. Do it twice as fast. Get EXP for healing others, and have access to the best weapons 😄

Currently Long Range Scopes just feel bad, liek most maps aren't even big enough/sightlines are big enough to warrant x40 scopes xD

[wide vault]

There was a powerful sniper meta during playtests, and BBR is still one of the most sniper-heavy game I've ever played both from the map design and gun handling

The x40 scope is a bit of a meme, I wouldn't use that to base opinions

[strong epoch]

yeah. snipers might be powerful, but theyre also dead easy to counter if you actually know what youre doing (doubly so if you have a couple squadmates willing to help you take advantage of the dumb-shit spawning mechanics), and lets not pretend that the main dev isnt comically biased. "Is anyone asking for stronger sniper muzzle flash? no? lets add it anyway! how many people are saying to remove SMGs from medic? practically everyone? yeah but thats what I use on medic and im the dev so fuck you"

however, i think it would probably be a good idea to bring the walkspeed down for sniper rifles as a whole. its worth seeing how effective it is if we really lean into the "run them the fuck down with an automatic rifle" counter to snipers. its already pretty effective, might as well at least try a more purposeful attempt at making that the counter

[bleak mantle]

The reason it's like this is because they made the reticle the same approximate shape as it is IRL, but it's much bigger in game. if you were to look through a real ACOG the entire reticle would appear much smaller.

[bleak mantle]

https://reddit.com/r/aimdownsights/s/kL6C3HFpDv

For example

[steady mist]

It was this or giving medium scopes glint

Dead srs

[strong epoch]

what a joke lol

[wide oriole]

the one that the scope is mounted to

[strong epoch]

sounds like an extremely redundant thing to spend dev time trying to code

[past snow]

yeah do not let him cook

was fixing glint considered at least? @steady mist

[desert bison]

the marks on every scope would need to be changed in order to accommodate every gun

[steady mist]

It might be on the table to relax it a bit but it's more of a medium scopes are too good than long scopes are too bad bc of the inherent ease that big player models/ignoring bolt mechanics/rangefinder traits sniping has

However, I'll say that nothing in this game is untouchable since feedback, so as long as people are talking about it, it is at minimum on the table to be judged

[bleak berry]

40x is best used for super cheeky finger and toe shots to make people crumple over and die from the worst case of stubbing their toe they ever had

[bleak berry]

hear me out... give EVERY gun glint

it is always an option 😏

[formal lynx]

My iron sight glint

[bleak berry]

shiny iron sight

[remote tree]

re acog

The widths would need adjustment too since we're all minecraft characters

[bleak mantle]

Okay but this would be a massive undertaking since all of the guns have different velocities and drops, not to mention how much velocity changes with some attachments. The acog might not be “realistic” right now but it works more than well enough.

Plus, the irl acog you guys are talking about (TA31) only has a BDC reticle for certain 5.56 loads, so it wouldn’t even work on all of the guns. Not everything needs to be perfectly realistic, and the acog is fine how it is.

[remote tree]

Less of an undertaking than you'd think - BF4 did it

Once you make them parametric, you just plug the gun's stats into the scope and you're done