#Light Support/Machine Guns (General) - Feedback

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

silk zinc
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the majority of the smg nerfs targeted their maximum engagement distance because people thought they were getting lasered at 150m by the vector

jaunty spear
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And SMGs haven't really been complained about since

trim sable
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Yeah, so now you can't just get "close enough", my point stil lstands

jaunty spear
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Well

trim sable
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it's much harder to force 40m than to force 80m

jaunty spear
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Depends on how you define close enough?

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Yeah I guess

silk zinc
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sure but in a class of 4 guns that HASN'T received adjustments/reworks yet i'd say support weapons are actually very fine, probably why they haven't been a priority with shit like the pre-nerf vector, post-rework ump, groza etc running around

jaunty spear
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They're usable

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I can hit clips and find a use case for all cept mg36

silk zinc
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lmg buffs are coming, there's no doubt in my mind about that, but like really, what's the bigger issue? vector/mp5/ump overshadowing other weapon classes at 100m or oh no 2 of the support weapons barely meet viability requirements

jaunty spear
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But I would not call them good

silk zinc
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when you have a small dev team priority becomes very important

topaz leaf
jaunty spear
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See the weird thing is I remember for the longest time M249 was best in slot

silk zinc
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🤓

trim sable
silk zinc
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map design lends itself to cramped engagements

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that's why

jaunty spear
naive current
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i'd love a suppression system
flashbangs could benefit from it aswell
only giving you really high brightness values for like 0.5s when looking at it (flash)
and then the bang part making you really suppressed so you're kinda knocked out like irl
not the 5s blindness we have rn
also some sound muffling but that could come with the suppression system itself...

topaz leaf
trim sable
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i would personally like a bit of suppression BUT i don't think people would want that here

naive current
jaunty spear
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Suppression is something you want until you're hit with it tbh

naive current
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came here for a casual introduction to milsim-esque games but well we got zoomer shooty shoot bs

trim sable
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i got a few hundred hours in arma and squad, and i love being hit with suppression, but nah, not here

silk zinc
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lets just add cs hit tagging where you get slowed down when shot, that'd be super fun

topaz leaf
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Interesting, it’s kinda what a popular arma 3 mod does.
If bullets impact near you, your screen goes white obscuring your vision to discourage you from peeking

topaz leaf
silk zinc
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riot shields reflect bullets back

topaz leaf
silk zinc
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idk, lmg's feel like slower ar's but it's really nice not having to think about how many bullets i have left cause the answer is always "more than you need"

trim sable
# topaz leaf Interesting, it’s kinda what a popular arma 3 mod does. If bullets impact near y...

it's what squad leaned heavily into
it doesn't tunnel vision you, but it ads a DoF effect so you can only effectively see your surroundings instead of the enemy
it allows you to quickly run into cover but not effectively fight back, but you generally don't instantly die because of how hard to fire consecutive shots it is in that game

not something we'd want to see here at all, but very fun to be on both ends off in it's own way

silk zinc
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that 96-54 i got was very relaxing

jaunty spear
topaz leaf
silk zinc
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sure that's because the downsides are super exaggerated right now to balance out having double hp

naive current
silk zinc
jaunty spear
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However this is the line of thinking a lot of my friends have that having 100 rounds justifies the guns being fuckin terrible everywhere else

topaz leaf
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isnt there another super silly drum mag?

jaunty spear
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Plenty

silk zinc
topaz leaf
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yeah because it sucks balls

silk zinc
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cause none of the other smg's have drums

jaunty spear
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Vector drum mag is actually usable in comparison to some extended mags in this game

silk zinc
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sure but it's still worse than quick by a landslide

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losing ads speed advantage bad

trim sable
jaunty spear
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Usually you get killed before it sets in

silk zinc
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if lmg's were truly strong but supports also had double hp it'd be turbo fucked

topaz leaf
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anyway back to editing

naive current
jaunty spear
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I'm gonna go find it bc I used it to present a case on it to make lmgs good

trim sable
silk zinc
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still gonna use lowest armor option

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max ads speed plz

jaunty spear
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Here it is

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It's a good watch

trim sable
trim sable
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Have this old brainstormed super graphic i made

image-53.png
stable horizon
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I kinda like that idea

trim sable
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Having a damage curve that doesn't start at max but kinda parabols between 100 and 200 meters to go along more controlability would prevent them from being playermowers up close, but extend their usable burst and full auto range to a nicer extent

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Expecially with better working bipods

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And also make them more distinct from ARs and the like

stable horizon
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Not for lsws though

trim sable
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yes for LSWs though!!

stable horizon
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No! Lsws are great for holding down an area at shortish range

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Like that hole in the ship's hull

foggy comet
topaz leaf
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so how much health DOES a Support in exo / heavy have?

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assuming only chest shots are hit

naive current
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163
in total with the helmet 210 tho

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which is fairly unlikely to actually hit
rn it feels like the armor does exactly nothing
i don't feel anymore durable than anyone else apart from taking the odd sniper shot without dying
but i also have so many fucking downsides it's misreable

topaz leaf
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ROF ingame is in RPM?

naive current
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it gets especially special c4-y when my team mates have about the intellectual equivalence of a rock
positioning and so on and so forth
fuck me

topaz leaf
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watching the Minecraft All Advancements TAS while waiting for Larry to get back to me PartyParrot

graceful tiger
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I'd like to see LSWs get extended mag buffs, specifically more bullets. I see them as smaller LMGs, and letting them have massive extended mags would give them a special niche that makes them more unique and plays into the mini-LMG idea.

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If I had to provide numbers, I'd say...

L86A1

  • Extended mag ammo count increased from 55 to 75.
    MG36
  • Extended mag ammo count increased from 60 to 90.
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Extended mags generally need buffs universally, but I'd love to see massive extended mags for LSWs.

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I'd also like to see walkspeed buffs for these weapons.

modest fern
tired wave
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50 round belt/drums for the M249/ultimax that give a bit better ADS speed, maybe? I feel like I'm always being punished for how long it takes to aim tbh, and it doesn't feel like it should be nearly that long in the case of something like the L86.

stable horizon
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Add the m249 30 rd box mag

trim sable
modest fern
tired wave
graceful tiger
foggy jewel
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I am putting into practice the lessons I learned from Lokisam. I got on the top 5 score (and top 3 on my team) as an Ultimax support for the first time.
I bumped up my ADS vertical recoil so I could control it easier, switched to a 144hz monitor, used a red dot sight, and now I'm playing more defensively and beaming pixels in the distance.

jaunty spear
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It's really that easy

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But like

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Did you just have a 143hz monitor lying around

foggy jewel
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yes, I was using it as my second monitor. I had a 4K monitor as my primary, but that was limited to 59hz

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so I traded in resolution for speed

silk zinc
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and just like that, i'm now a better coach than player HyperXD

jaunty spear
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Fr

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Welcome to the light

jaunty spear
foggy jewel
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I will miss having 100 bullets

jaunty spear
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It's a playstyle

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Buzz a mag, reload into new cover, buzz another mag

silk zinc
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i kinda enjoyed the ultimax, might do that again sometime

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also should probably record more of my gameplay so i can study and stop doing dumb shit

fathom quest
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m60 when

silk zinc
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rpd when

modest fern
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also MG3

silk zinc
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pkp?

modest fern
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I am up for that

silk zinc
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what else are we missing... mg42?

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🙂

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1300 rpm LMG sounds like a GREAT time to me

modest fern
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MG42 was 1200

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also MG3 is a modernized version of the 42

silk zinc
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online information ranges it between 700 and 1500 rpm

naive current
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we'll probaly hear a bunch of "erika" when the mg3 finally drops

woven vessel
# modest fern MG42 was 1200

MG42 was technically 1200, but it was field modded down a couple hundred RPM because firing at 1200 is absolutely unhinged

stable horizon
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Pocket minigun

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Make support great again

stone iris
woven vessel
stable horizon
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Adding a separate category for gpmgs and medium mg's would probably be good. Maybe make it so they can only be fired from the hip or from bipod so that the 1200 rpm, 7.62 nato mg isn't overpowered

stone iris
woven vessel
stone iris
woven vessel
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I’m actually very interested about the damage numbers we’ll see on some of the upcoming Support guns.
All support weapons fire 5.56, but we’ll get more than a few 7.62 NATO and adjacent guns.

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MG3, MG5, M60, the Norinco PKM all fire 7.62

stable horizon
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I feel like they should add the CETME Ameli as a 5.56 version of the mg3

stone iris
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well the game now has a sub-sonic handgun calibre firearm doing 35 damage. so since this is oki we are talking about, id say the 7.62 support weapons will do... 30 damage. yeah that wouldnt really surprise me

topaz leaf
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DHSK when? Kek

stable horizon
woven vessel
stable horizon
stone iris
woven vessel
stable horizon
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MG36 is an outlier and should not be counted
And come to think of it so is the m110

stone iris
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also, i sort of feel like a 7 damage spread for the "normal" range of damage for 5.56 is already a LOT. it basically means theres no real consistency to it

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tho its also not at all helped by oki's stubborn refusal to adhere to the rule of more RPM = less damage. hes only vaguely doing this, and only recently too

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like, Hk419 got a huge RPM buff without touching its damage? STOP USING RECOIL TO BALANCE DAMAGE

stable horizon
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Different weapons should feel different

stone iris
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which, in my opinion, is just proof that there was no need to fuck with the 419 in the first place

stable horizon
stone iris
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F2k was literally in the pipeline, buffing HK419 only made it harder for the F2k to have its own niche

stable horizon
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Also, we should take this to the feedback for ars

stone iris
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true true lol

stable horizon
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'Cause neither of these are LSWs nor MGs

stone iris
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ill just leave it at: please stop letting the MG36 drown, oki

stable horizon
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Mg36 needs a horizontal recoil buff

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Not too big, but not too small either

stone iris
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eh. id say it needs to follow the ultimax formula. since oki clearly has no interest in making it an actual G36-family firearm at 750RPM, bring its damage down to a 4-shot but also bring its recoil (hori and vert) down and let it be the lower-ttk, higher accuracy of the two LSWs

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tho it woud also help tremendously if he would go ahead and un-fuck the drum mag on that thing

stable horizon
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32 damage for people who liked the old one and want to stick a long or heavy barrel on it

stone iris
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and just so we dont have a repeat of the Rsh's really mediocre balancing changes;

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we do not want a faster reload on the MG36 drum mag

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we just want it to be 100 rounds

stable horizon
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Add 200rd belts to the m249

stone iris
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L86 already has the medium capacity, medium reload speed drum mag. give the MG36 a high capacity, slow reload drum

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( 1.) the drum mag reload is literally slower than the 100-rnd ultimax reload, and 2.) it literally uses the model of a real-life 100-rnd cmag drum)

stable horizon
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That sounds good to me

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(So far)

stone iris
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making the MG36 drum reload faster would just make the gun as a whole much more similar to the L86, instead of letting the gun be its own thing

stable horizon
topaz leaf
stone iris
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(remember, "huge" when talking about dakka means more, not bigger)

topaz leaf
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It cost 200.000$ to fire this gun... for 12 seconds...

stone iris
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i just dont want a repeat of the Rsh where the gun is technically improved, but it becomes almost a clone of another gun in the category and is still worse than it

fathom quest
# stable horizon Mg36 needs a horizontal recoil buff

the biggest problem the mg36 has is how horrible extended mags are, with a decent amount of practice and discipline recoil even at long range isn't a problem, 40 rounds is still better than 30 to spray with so it's better than an ar for this purpose but the extended mag actually not being horrifically bad would be the best buff that it really deserves honestly, l86 should get a no downside 40 round mag as well

modest fern
modest fern
modest fern
modest fern
stone iris
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with modern ballistic helmets and vests, generally speed is more important than weight for punching through (Kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * squared velocity). its why 45 acp is generally found in law enforcement settings, not military settings

modest fern
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or other super sonic calibers

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(is that the right word,been a while since i talked speeds)

stone iris
modest fern
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Yep add you don't deal with a power loss from using subsonic (part of why I say the USP should just become the best suppressed pistol partly) compared to standard ammo

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be it I do have some preference still to 45 ACP (Not saying outright better, but preference)

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plus considering a lot of guys in BBR run low to no armor

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I suppose it's effectiveness makes some sense lol

stone iris
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yeah. i dont really understand the logic behind how they did the pistol balancing. NONE of them break into 3-shot territory, so the damage levels are largely inconsequential, so you still have the MP Grach being the most logical choice. velocity is a huge factor for semi-auto weapons, and neither the M9 nor the USP have anything going for them to make up for the lack of velocity

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USP should 100% have less base sound spread, and i dunno... 3-tap for the m9 at a cost of RPM? meh, not really sure what to do for the M9 LOL

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(also, osprey reducing velocity? fucking awful)

stable horizon
stone iris
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fuckin YEP

stable horizon
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35 damage for an smg is fine, it's just that 34 damage out of a pdw, lsw, or ar should be better against armor

stone iris
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if you ask me, until we get that armour stat to be functional, armour needs to have its durability stat reworked. it needs to be the amount of damage itll block, duh, but it also needs to be the number of times the armour piece can get shot before getting destroyed

stable horizon
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Let's take this to the armor thread

stone iris
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aye

grand tulip
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Siderail that allows for a grip and a bipod:

image.png
pale sleet
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gave the ultimax bipod another try, even with the flash hider the recoil is just stupid

stone iris
pale sleet
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This channel is for feedback so here is some real feedback.

With way too many hours on support, the bipod is a near useless gimmick. Near because anything in this game can be used even if it shouldn't.
-The penalties to speed, reload, draw, all speeds, etc. Are simply not worth the miniscule amount of recoil control gained over a normal grip. The tradeoff just doesn't add up.
I've tried everything to make the bipod feel right. Sandbag pushes, proning behind the front line, anything. It just does not flow with the game. A support laying still is just begging to get RPG'd or sniped because movement in this game is a way better defense than armor.
The most advantageous areas to peek with an LMG is from a window where only your head is exposed. But the bipod is so damn finnicky with window ledges that you're extremely limited horiztonally, and massively limited where you can shoot vertically. Again the grip just does the job better and is way more flexible.

A lot of the bipod issues are also just shared issues with support. He's supposed to be long range for automatics but the guns are lacking, and movement in this game is more viable than standing in a spot laying down fire

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So ig to summarize the bipod issue in a sentence.
"In a game where movement is so crucial, how can an item designed to make you sit still be good?"

Well this is a bit of a stretch but two games come to mind with a similar issue. Overwatch had Bastion, Rainbow6 had Tachanka. Big machine guns that were stuck being stationary.
Bastion ultimately got: limited turret movement at the cost of higher damage
Tachanka got: -Added defense -Then reworked and for the LMG, movement at the cost of higher damage.

But uhh.. lol that assumes the support guns have higher damage to begin with so I guess this comparison doesn't work.

topaz leaf
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I say that the problem with the guns is inherently the class that wields them

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Being unique guns to only support, they are just as viable as support itself is

pale sleet
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Yes the bipod is an extension of support's flawed design currently. But that's for the other feedback thread.
I think Oki probably will have to change the class quite a bit to or just flat buff it quite hard for it to do its job more effectively

fathom quest
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attachments are just badly balanced in the entire game

topaz leaf
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especially magazines...

stone iris
pale sleet
topaz leaf
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Support with its heavy slowdown and long dakka TRIES to get you to set up shop and rain down bullets onto a choke or wide area

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But

stone iris
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smg medic

topaz leaf
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1.) in a game all about movement setting up somewhere is stupid
——- 1.A) exception snipers because they are far away, support needs to be somewhat close by, allowing them to be easily flanked
2.) you lose 1v1s so on your way to set up you are likely gonna eat the dirt from 6 feet under
3.) your armor is too weak to make up for the speed loss, I played two games today, one medic one support, and BOTH times I noticed how shit support is.

foggy comet
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simply play wakistan and fight on the bridge

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then the support meta becomes real

topaz leaf
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If there wasn’t like 3 flanks

stone iris
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one part of one map, support becomes almost meta. fantastic

foggy comet
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yes

stone iris
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no

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i hope your sausage falls off

foggy comet
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I was agreeing with you

stone iris
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no to everything

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i used to be support main. i say no to everything at this point

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one does not main support without becoming a very angry human

foggy comet
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I just play support when a situation comes up that it excels in

topaz leaf
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support is a good noob check

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thats it

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new players dont hit their shots, and missing shots is the only way anyone loses to support

foggy comet
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Isn’t that the same for… all classes?

topaz leaf
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yeah but I feel its especially true for support

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its weird to explain

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yes its true for all classes, but Supports ONE benefit, the armour, might as well be non-existent with how fast it can be melted

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ONLY if the 547th SMG Medic misses one or two shots do I feel like the armor actually saves you

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Like, this is a hot take right

foggy comet
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The game doesn’t really tell you when you armour does save you. But it has a pretty powerful effect

topaz leaf
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but I feel just by armor value alone, a support should win 1v1s
If, hypothetically, I verse a support while I'm using a stronger gun, I should still lose in a 1v1

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like 80% of the time

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support is designed to be a tank but it just isn't

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it only really saves me from the odd Sniper going for me where I'm like "thank god for that"

foggy comet
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Based on how most players rate their aim, exo armour will extend the average player’s ttk on you by about 67.4%

topaz leaf
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yeah but 67% of barely a second is still barely a second

foggy comet
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Since you don’t get the usual hit feedback from taking an armour hit though, you often won’t know you’ve begun taking hits until it’s already gone

foggy comet
topaz leaf
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taking into account ADS time and adjusting aim, meh

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in reality, if you're not already ads, you're dead 80% of the time because EVERYTHING else is so much faster than you, they usually get the drop on you

foggy comet
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Assuming CQC, 100% accuracy (worst case scenario for exo armour), durability gained from exo should still on average slightly outweigh the slower aimdown time from both the LMG and the armour

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The issue being this only lasts until you take significant damage

topaz leaf
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yeah it only ever saves you once

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which... whopdeedoo

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get saved once, lose every other fight you could ever run into

foggy comet
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Yeah in my experience support isn’t so much for winning fights, it’s for killing people before they have a chance to put up any meaningful resistance

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Hip firing helps a lot though

topaz leaf
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I mean yeah, role wise I like to compare Support to TF2 heavy

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Heavy is great at mowing down unprepared opponents walking into him, it SHOULD be the same for Support

foggy comet
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it kinda is though

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Like I run the slowest ttk weapon available to the class but still generally kill people pretty easily at close range, partially on account of having armour

topaz leaf
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which only works once luvisob

foggy comet
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Main reason I don’t main the class is that it takes longer to get anywhere

foggy comet
topaz leaf
topaz leaf
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so it's not THAT special :v

foggy comet
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Yeah the point is for all classes to have something that enables them to win where they might otherwise loose. Apart from maybe recon, that’s different

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Support’s one is a bit less reliable than the others though

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If you go up against a skilled player who aims for limbs you will be at a disadvantage always

topaz leaf
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I mean, I don't consider myself skilled but I consistently win against supports just going for center mass

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because I just melt their armor :v

foggy comet
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That does imply you didn’t win the fight because they were a support
Aiming for COM does just put you at a disadvantage and if you beat them most of the time you’re likely just above average in skill (which just about everyone in the discord is)

naive current
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another day of tldr:
fix support with
-working bipod
-working armor
-normalized/fixed movement
playing support makes me
f u r i o u s

fathom quest
naive current
grizzled bison
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Playing support is glorious but has to be played very differently than other classes

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Not camping, but you have to be more conscious of your movement and where you're going, it's a much slower style than other classes that forces you to predict enemy movement.

fathom quest
grizzled bison
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The advantage is once you get it down, you start to put yourself in situations where you have 5 enemies all lined up in your ultimax's medium scope, all looking the other way or lying down to heal.

fathom quest
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proner

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become one with the earth

grizzled bison
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I can tell you, nothing is more supremely satisfying than having 100 rounds and a row of ducks you're just about to commit war-crimes against

fathom quest
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l86 is actually pretty good as a quasi ar

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you just move slightly slower

grizzled bison
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It is, it's definitely not a bad gun at all.

rigid geyser
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It shreds

fathom quest
rigid geyser
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3 shot kill with it must've been way too strong before

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The thing is fast af

grizzled bison
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Not my playstyle, but if you want to be an up-armored assault with medium-range full-auto accuracy, it's definitely viable.

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The recoil used to be far more punishing

fathom quest
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yea I'm usually an ultimax main but I've been using the mg36 and l86 recently and I think the close range capability really helps, I did some great worth with the short supressor ultimax though for sure

rigid geyser
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I try to use lmgs because they're cooler

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I'd love more BRs or experimental stuff for support though

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Give em the XM or something wacky

fathom quest
rigid geyser
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I think support players could get away with having shotguns

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And only support players

topaz leaf
modest fern
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Also I desire MG3

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(watches as oki makes MG3 at level 200)

rigid geyser
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MG3 plz

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with infinite ammo shaped drum mag

rigid grove
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I really want some MMG / GPMG options for Support, for min-maxing the Support playstyle into slow but very heavy hitting sustained fire trooper.

stable horizon
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The problem with something like an mg3 is its crazy fire rate for a 7.62 NATO round, even the minimum fire rate is 800 rpm

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And 7.62 NATO should have a btk of 3.

modest fern
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So 800 rpm on a 3-4 shot profile up to around 101m before damage drop off

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at a cost of a LONG reload, longer than average ADS, most likely slower speed & the usual support downsides most likely with a 50-100 round belt

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I would assume oki would do 4 shot kill considering the rest of the game

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(aka MG36 is a 3 tap at 5.56, UMP is a 3 tap at 45 ACP and so on)

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@stable horizon does that sound about right?

naive current
stable horizon
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I was going to say that 4 shot would make it useless, 3 shot would make it op but an op weapon on support would just make support viable

stable horizon
naive current
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150ms ttk on an lmg
that's really good, give it like 1.2-ish h-recoil and 1.8-ish v-recoil and it'd be fine imo

naive current
# stable horizon I'd say that giving the 1200 rpm to a CETME Ameli (chambered in 5.56)

we won't get that sadly, atleast it's not known, better to have a famous gun that we know about be what it's known for instead of another gun that's not so widly known getting the same characteristics for some reason
and no ameli is not on the list of leaked weapons, mg3 is
it's the closest thing we got to it, better make it good rather than to hope for smth that might never come yk

modest fern
naive current
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800rpm is a joke for an mg3, make it over 1100rpm or just don't add it, no point then
mg5 already got 640, 720 and 800rpm btw sooooooo, there's your 800rpm lmg...

stable horizon
naive current
stable horizon
fathom quest
naive current
# stable horizon Imo it should be 3btk

no it shouldn't
800rpm + 3sk lends you a gun worse than the pre ea val/hb, absolute nuh uh territory in terms of balance
also it doesn't fit with its identity at all
also ump 35dmg 45.acp, tactical tuna 23dmg 5.56 nato, scar 42dmg 7.62 nato, g3 37dmg 7.62 nato, list goes on and on
if you want to tell me "it's realistic"/"it applies the games own rules" it isn't and it doesn't the game is all over the place with its calibers, face it you either get an unbalanced gun that doesn't represent the gun it should
or you get a near scorpion ttk with ok-ish recoil (firerate*recoil is a problem, especially for h-recoil) that is ok within balance

modest fern
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25 more rpm

stable horizon
naive current
# modest fern being honest a 3tap 800 rpm is similar to the old L86

ik but it has 100rnds probaly more damage if we keep in line with the "rules" and the hb/val were atrocious before ea, so i'd rather have a gun that's "weaker" than it should be for the sake of balance while also being more accurate to what it is irl
ramping recoil would be cool aswell, rewarding the first 3-5 shots with lowered recoil then having the next 5-9 shots be "normal" recoil and then going up afterwards
smth like a 0.8-1.0-1.2 recoil ramp, smoothed out tho to make it less jank

modest fern
#

and keep in mind more damage unless it breaks a breakpoint is just overkill/extra range

naive current
#

could have the opposite for the m249 imo to make it less of a "bad m4" type of deal yk

naive current
#

mg3 should fire nearly as fast as the vector but have a 4sk with a bunch of h-recoil and a bit of v-recoil aswell, but having its firerate gutted for the sake of "realism and keeping in line with the games rules" by making it a 3sk is just dumb, sry it just is

modest fern
# naive current idk never played that

sec, but effectively there are afew guns that get bonuses on certain conditions , MGR C1 charger gets a bonus for the first 7 rounds of a mag (increased fire rate) ,Kindred (my bad, jackal & Kindred have similar models ; gets increased rpm on a trigger pull but loses it after so many rounds fired in full auto fire)

modest fern
#

would be some nice variety to support's weapons

#

since MG36 handles the slower easy to handle 3 taps

jaunty spear
#

Or Aug hbar

modest fern
#

Having the MG5 take the role of the harder to handle but very rewarding 3 tapper

#

would be a good one

naive current
jaunty spear
#

MG3 should just be a vector

modest fern
#

In fairiness this game doesn't do caliber damage

jaunty spear
#

But with range

naive current
modest fern
#

4 tap rather than 5 lol

#

thing would handle far worse to compensate either way

modest fern
#

And I want a replacement/something that feels similar to the old L86 with LB

naive current
#

it ain't a vector, it's a war machine carved out of only the finest of steels, kills faster than any normal human can react and has a mag vectoids could only dream of while also not sucking against armor
"auf der heide blüh......."
whoops a little bit to patriotic xD

modest fern
#

good bit of recoil (MG36 feels so boring in honesty) and a good reward for taming said recoil

jaunty spear
naive current
rigid geyser
#

Carryable 50 cal gun you can't ads with when?

#

Fully automatic drum mag shotty for support when?

grand tulip
#

The MG3 should be 40 damage-per-shot @ 1000 RPM.

modest fern
#

Dakka

#

That would be a good christmas gift

#

16.67 RPS of 40 damage per shot

#

(for reference 650 of the fal,groza & co are at 10.83)

#

considering that , It would have some GOOD RECOIL

#

I AM VERY MUCH ENJOYING THIS DAKKA OF A IDEA

#

THIS DAKKA MAKES ME DAKKA HAPPY!

modest fern
naive current
stable horizon
naive current
stable horizon
#

Add a gpmg/mmg category, gpmgs can only be fired while prone, with bipod on something or from the hip.

#

But that would require improving the bipod

trim sable
#

Do you folks want yet another deranged ramble?

stable horizon
#

Y E S

#

YesYesYesYesYES!

#

YEESSSSS!

naive current
#

yes yes yes yes
YES

#

take my cookie 🍪

naive current
#

(get this man into the balance team)

stable horizon
jolly solstice
# trim sable

That aim drag especially could do a LOT of good things. For vehicles especially, but also to balance gun size/weight

#

EG, smgs are basically snap to aim, but a LMG or big sniper will have a drift

#

And vehicles need that yesterday. Just pull the mechanic from world of tanks and stop limiting look by gun position

trim sable
#

i don't know about making it non-bipod based to be honest, limited to bipods, it seems to work fine on current balance, but doing it gun specific could have a lot of implications

jaunty spear
#

I think that aim weight and stat overiding would be too unintuitive for the players

#

However it locking, being passive and no downsides all are reasonable

trim sable
#

And from what i gather, the main issue with bipods being effective, at least to Oki's standards, is how much the recoil mitigation makes them close range lasers
It's very hard to make a gun effective at full auto/bursts at mid range without making it good up close, and the drag would be very much perfect to counteract that

jolly solstice
#

The drag system works great in games like world of tanks

#

So long as the sights are accurate while it's dragging, it's quite intuitive

frank blade
#

But the game was not balanced with supports in mind

trim sable
#

I wouldn't want shotguns in game in any shape tbh

frank blade
#

No other games has really implemented supports in a healthy way

rigid geyser
#

They'll be abstract concepts instead of shapes

naive current
trim sable
#

i want C4 to have a 1 second beeping windup tho, so it's not a insta win button

frank blade
jolly solstice
#

Big reticule has no delay and moves freely with the camera

#

Smaller one is where the shots go

trim sable
#

I'm not sure implementing a tank game system into an FPS would be all that in congruence with the current proposed flow of the game
And i say this as a poor war thunder tortured soul

jolly solstice
#

I think it absolutely should be for vehicles at least

trim sable
#

oh, for vehicles, i can definitely see

#

and bipods

jolly solstice
#

Yeah, and it MIGHT be useful for other things

#

Was my point

rigid geyser
#

I still think the momentum concept for supports sprinting is great. With lmgs it'd be neat if they'd contribute to that system. More weight = more top speed but less acceleration

#

Wait

#

I just fucking realized I'm asking for more mario kart systems in this game

jaunty spear
#

Anything up to 100 meters

trim sable
# jaunty spear It's the laser part

yeah, that's why aim drag would help loads
you can't properly use a laser with aim drag, since following people for shots becomes harder the closer they are
it's the inverse effect recoil has, because recoil fucks you up more the farther away, and aim drag messes with you less the farther away
so you're effectively trading all your reactivity, close range effectiveness and mobility for a short moment(until you undoubtedly need to reposition) for good recoil control
you will still feel the recoil at the ranges where you don't feel the aim drag, but if you try to use it at close range, you'll have the same troubles a person using a gun with lots of recoil will have far away

#

following a fast moving target running to the side at 50 meters with a deployed bipod would be as hard as killing a person at 200 meters with no bipod

#

and even a gun that would otherwise feel like a laser up close will still have noticeable recoil once you use it from far enough away, recoil is basically multiplied by distance, or better it has a quadratically potentialized relation to it

stone iris
frank blade
#

I apologize for getting mixed up with you supports. I thought i was in the battlebit-eng channel

modest fern
modest fern
#

I say masterwork

grand tulip
#

Maximum fire power for minimum mobility.

modest fern
#

(Looks at old WW1 & definitions of HMG & MMG)

rigid grove
# trim sable

Oki if you actually read these channels, hire this man.

rigid geyser
#

He devs for ss13

#

Trust me when I say, they're Ballin

#

I will say though, aim drag sounds like of like mouse acceleration lol

#

Or like, just making the gun feel laggy

#

I'm totally not 100% understanding it though

#

Tbh, if the bipod just worked like it did in bf4 it'd basically be fine. Trading any actual benefits of a grip for a ton of benefits in a small, stationary fov

#

Snipers trend to destroy bipod boys in that game, you tend to have to be very mobile and reposition a lot unless it's operation metro where a flank route doesn't exist

#

The maps are so wide open I think it would work pretty well. Have a button for deploymemt that locks you into it so you don't accidentally lose the buffs while shooting

#

Takes a second to undeploy, and it limits your fov like crazy so it's more effective at range than up close

#

The guns accuracy doesn't need to be increased, it's literally just removing most of the visual recoil so it's stable. There's could still be some recoil, but visually it wouldn't bounce nearly as much

#

Either way, buffing the bipod could make for really interesting lmgs. You could add some that are really tough to use effectively, but become amazing with the bipod. Whole other's don't benefit much from them as a whole because they're already plenty controllable

naive current
rigid geyser
#

I say give support a literal buzzsaw

#

It's kind of like an lmg, but for woodcutting

stone iris
#

nah nah nah

#

let us be the Koolaid man

#

sprinting at a wall? just bust through it

rigid geyser
stone iris
#

frankly i would sprint through a wall even if it got me killed. because it would feel so fucking cool

grand tulip
#

Not Battlebit related but I find it interesting that the Bipod counts as a barrel in MWIII; I wonder if you can use this Bipod-Barrel with a grip.

image.png
fathom quest
#

call of shit

lunar sedge
#

Bathroom Duty

grand tulip
#

To be honest, in the state the FPS industry is in right now, MWIII looks rather compelling.

rigid geyser
fathom quest
#

it's still call of shit

rigid geyser
#

Truly, the immature hate for call of duty still burns bright.

grand tulip
#

Something to be entertained by while Battlefield and BattleBit sort out their identity crisis.

rigid geyser
#

Ohhh, tactical nukes then 🙏

#

A man can dream

fathom quest
#

my first cod was cod 2, everything they put out now is garbage, in my opinion once you've played things like battlefield, there is no reason to go back to 6vs6 with hallway maps, I think we've advanced past that, battlebit is the forefront of innovation in shooters and we don't have to go back imo, it all looks the same, every cod is a reskin

rigid geyser
#

I think that's a bit of a reductive take. Sounds like "bigger is better" is all you're thinking man.

grand tulip
fathom quest
#

I don't think any battlefield games had 127vs127 but I could be wrong, I'm not that much of an oldhead here

grand tulip
#

Increasing player count is not an innovation.

fathom quest
rigid geyser
#

I don't think BBR is innovating, more like taking elements that worked really well in other games and bringing them back in new ways.

#

Which isn't a bad thing, but I wouldn't call it necessarily innovation

#

It's just doing things that have been done before quite well, or using elements from other games in a good way I guess

grand tulip
fathom quest
rigid geyser
#

Comparing 6vs6 games to 127vs127 is kind of a non-starter to be honest. The goals of the games are different. The gameplay they can accommodate is different. The general feel and what they can do is different.

If BBR was a 6vs6 shooter, it would blow hands down, but its mechanics were designed around having a ton of peeps to play off of

#

It's like apples to oranges in a way

rigid geyser
fathom quest
grand tulip
#

It still retains it's fair share of problems; class balancing, armor balancing, movement and physics; none of these have even been addressed by the developers.

There's a reason the game is practically on life support now.

rigid geyser
#

The game has kept around this playercount since late august

image.png
#

It's not on life support, it's settled into its dedicated playerbase

#

And, not all of those players playing may be the same players every day. I know I didn't play battlebit for a week as an example. I think BBR is the kind of game people hop in and out of when in the mood

grand tulip
#

It is on life support because unlike with triple-A studios, it's not as if they can just release a sequal and throw out the other game; if I recall Oki stated it takes 5-figures per month just to run servers, currently the game lacks microtransactions and anyway to maintain a consistant income.

fathom quest
rigid geyser
fathom quest
#

there is no real realism standard that they have to live up to, you are a block man

rigid geyser
#

maaaan, I don't want microtransactions honestly. It'd be nice to just get some more dlc packs with bundles of skins, content, etc. If the game got microtransactions now it'd be a real bad look I think.

fathom quest
rigid geyser
#

It's unfortunate that it's the most effective way of making money

#

If we get microtransactions, I won't complain because i understand why. They'll have to be VERY careful with how they do it though.

grand tulip
rigid geyser
#

I don't think they'll just drop development on the game, but definitely scale things back and try to make sure people can still play even if they can't necessarily pay for it

lunar sedge
rigid geyser
#

Also, if they released another supporter pack or two I'd defo get it

#

Innovation can be using something in a new way, remixing things, etc

#

But, I struggle to think of an aspect of this game that's necessarily "innovation" and more "evolution of this specific genre".

#

Which, once again, isn't a bad thing

#

Example, support being slow as fuck with exo armor, not really an innovation

#

but, having the armor is a logical evolution

#

It's fuzzy to me, haven't really spent much time thinking on the exact definition/difference in my head tbh

lunar sedge
#

Anything new that succeeds is innovative. The combination of things that BBR is is new, and it has succeeded.

grand tulip
#

95% Battlefield + 5% Mil-Sim isn't what I would call an innovation.

lunar sedge
grand tulip
lunar sedge
#

I'm comparing your definition of innovative with a more reasonable one.

grand tulip
#

That's not my deifnition of innovation, it's the dictionary and the industries definition of innovation.

#

Fundamentally BattleBit hasn't done a whole lot "new".

And that's okay, because not all changes are good, and the FPS industry is at the forefront of that philosphy.

lunar sedge
#

The combination of things it has is certainly new tho,

#

It's like saying the first car with headlights wasn't "new."

#

I mean we agree that BBR is cool we're just disagreeing about proper labels. :P

grand tulip
lunar sedge
#

Yeah. The initial guy said BBR is the forefront of innovation but that's just not true either. It's innovative, but not very.

jaunty spear
#

I can not put into words what makes controlling the LSWs/LMGs worse than M4

#

I just can not

#

I know M249 and MG36 are low recoil

#

but they do not have the range I get with an AK or similar

#

L86 I don't have this issue nearly as badly, and Ultimax for obvious reasons I don't either

rigid geyser
#

I've been using the ulti mostly because of that too

jaunty spear
#

they either need more kill power IE firerate or they need better recoil

lunar sedge
#

They need (vastly) better recoil in the form of an actual fucking bipod tbh

hollow summit
#

Best I can get the MG36 to is 1.28 vertical 1.22 horizontal, or 1.4ish vertical 1.09 horizontal.

#

The M249, with flash hider and se-5, hits 1.43 vertical and 0.97 horizontal

jaunty spear
#

Lower RoF tho

#

Just a thought

#

If they're not gonna be better DPS than ARs then they should be better recoil tbh

hollow summit
#

Heavier gun means better recoil in real life, why not for these?

jaunty spear
#

Bc ammo OP

hollow summit
#

Oki doesn't know squat

jaunty spear
#

Fr tho

#

Team convinced having an extended mag of any kind is OP and needs to be nerfed

hollow summit
#

If literally nobody takes an extended mag, then you have balanced the extended mag wrong

#

The same is true of support

#

Sometimes finding a support when you need ammo is like looking for a unicorn

#

And the one thing that makes Support, well, Support, is his high ammo. Nerfing him for that is just...

jaunty spear
#

I see people taking extended mag mg36

#

Some people are just unhinged

hollow summit
#

The speed debuff is flipping 0.24

#

The reload debuff is a full second and a half

#

for 20 rounds

#

What crack is Oki smoking

jaunty spear
#

Same as the old asval nerf type

#

Maybe he'll get around to them

naive current
hollow summit
#

Oki needs to stop just neglecting support. Like, sure, we got the resupply others thing, but we probably should have had that a good while ago. Even just putting "most resupply" on the end scoreboard would be nice

jaunty spear
#

I mean aside from attachments

#

Refilling armor

#

IG?

#

The building fix for that spawn point bs

#

Maybe some more armor variety

#

What else

#

Assume bipods and mags are a part of the attachment stuff Larry mentioned on reddit a while back

naive current
#

armor refill, effective armor, more weapons, suppression.

jaunty spear
#

Suppression is never coming

naive current
#

fix bipod.

jaunty spear
#

I'd have higher hopes for stronger weapons first

#

Than suppression

naive current
jaunty spear
#

Same for armor

#

Anything that makes game less fun for others indirectly

#

Refill maybe

#

But doubt exo is going to get an HP buff

naive current
#

essentially oki either doesn't care for support or hates whst it should be

jaunty spear
#

The latter it seems

naive current
naive current
jaunty spear
#

Or do you mean the damage resist stuff

naive current
jaunty spear
#

Larry did mention on dev stream an armor rework eventually

#

So again

#

We're more likely to see OP support guns than OP support armor or suppression

#

And even then we might not see either

hollow summit
#

I don't want OP, I want the stuff Support has to not suck

spice crest
#

Ultimax seems a little bit easy to use, could have a bit more Hrecoil

naive current
#

also try using it at about 150-200m and you'll see that you won't even hit half your shots most of the time

#

also pls don't come at me with "where skill" the skill lies in not commiting special c4 without the c4 while playing this dumpster fire of a class

spice crest
# naive current its job is literally medium to long range fire supremacy what every lmg should b...

"It's balanced by bad ttk".. So there's something called : TTK is not the only one stat making a gun great or bad, when you're positioned (which is supposed to be the case when you're playing support with an LMG) you're already aiming on a spot with a big mag ready to shot like a pig, if the hrecoil goes up by 0.1 it'll just avoid to laser everybody till 150m/200m like an EBR.

The main problem atm is that the bipod is pure shit but it's not an excuse to make LMGs with really good fallof dmg and lower recoil more good that they're supposed to be.

naive current
# spice crest "It's balanced by bad ttk".. So there's something called : TTK is not the only o...

bro HyperXD
the whole point of an lmg is accurate f/a fire over ranges where ars and brs just don't cut it
it is supposed to be a laser and trust me
150-200m out you won't be lasering anyone accurately with any sort of consistency
and we won't see a fixed bipod anytime soon, so "oVeR PoWEred" lmgs (one of two, the other one's just shit) are a must have until then, if you can't handel a gun doing what it's supposed to then i'm sorry a scorpion shouldn't kill easily in cqc

spice crest
# naive current bro <:HyperXD:622619810492055562> the whole point of an lmg is accurate f/a fir...

Why we won't see a fixed bipod anytime soon? You're just making stuff out.
We can test it on a patch and actually see if it's cool or not.
My point was : I think Ultimax is little bit easy too use, I didn't say to nerf it to hell, just put a little bit more Hrecoil to avoid laser like M4/AK under 70m
The goal is not to make every weapons better and better but every of them balanced, because if you keep buffing thing at that point we'll have weapon with 1s reload, 0 hrecoil, 0.05 ttk

naive current
# spice crest Why we won't see a fixed bipod anytime soon? You're just making stuff out. We c...

it got nerfed into the ground a while back and oki didn't do anything about so.................
the ultimax is a slow killing laser my guy, get that into your thick ass skull
and no the point is not to buff everything into absurdity but make shit usable and the ultimax met that expectation finally after being just another bad weapon on support, i'd argue it's the only gun on support doing support shit, medium to long range volume of fire shenanigans

spice crest
# naive current it got nerfed into the ground a while back and oki didn't do anything about so.....

Yep, so it could be rebalanced.
Being a 0.3s instead of a 0.2 ttk for LMG mid/long range don't change actually much thing because you're shooting far from target and often with the advantage of being positioned where TTK 1v1 is not really a thing because you'll shoot before. If a guy is closer and actually kill you faster with an AR or a SMG on lower range it's normal it's how the game is supposed to be, it's the exact same thing in other games and how it was on BF3, 4 and BFV (didn't play BF1)
So you're saying MG36, L86 and M249 are not doing support thing.. it's pretty weird actually when they're better for most part. Also I repeat, I talk about a very little nerf on Hrecoil to avoid having people blasting through the whole map with lower falloff dmg (which was also a thing to not buff DMR too much)

modest fern
#

Personally the Max's niche is high acc with a below average TTK and a standard LMG mag size

#

but I would say if we reduce it's acc, it should get a compensation in another way

#

be that more velocity or such

naive current
modest fern
naive current
modest fern
naive current
spice crest
#

@modest fern

#

Here's the good thread

#

Also, sorry for bad grammar and stuff, I'm not english talker

jaunty spear
#

It's fine

#

Ultimax could have it's hrecoil increased slightly, sit somewhere between current and aug

#

Although Aug needs it's hrecoil decreased so it can still full auto well

#

For both of the LMGs, I think their QoL should be much better

#

Low muzzle flash, higher velocity, good swap speed in Ultimax case

#

Ultimax should also prolly not suffer against armor nearly as much as it does now

#

If there were no damage increasing barrels, 33 damage would put both lmgs at a 4 shot kill against normal armor

#

What keeps it balanced? Low TTK, low ADS, meaning poor reaction speed

#

As for M249, I'd buff damage and firerate so that Ultimax has it's niche, and M249 becomes the DPS option that vector/fal/MP7/Groza is for other classes

#

If we need a 700 rpm it should be an LSW so that it can immitate the AK/M4 as actually flexible

#

And then good drum mags would fill the other holes

stone iris
#

i think, as you said, low TTK is what the LMGs need. In exchange they would have just "normal" recoil when not using a deployed bipod

#

and then very low recoil when using a deployed bipod, at the cost of having limited window of aim and having to undeploy the bipod to be able to move

naive current
jaunty spear
#

M249 would be the semi controllable middle child

naive current
#

m249 should be the m4 of lmgs imo, not great at anything but good enough at everything that it still fucks

#

but well for that we'd need the 3 more lmgs...

jaunty spear
#

It's not usually the M4 of LMGs in other places

#

Seems RPK would do it better

naive current
#

i mean we are getting an rpd...
heavier hitting ak with more boolet and slightly worse recoil

jaunty spear
#

whichever comes first

#

but it should be a very light LMG

naive current
#

i don't think we're going to get a light lmg, idk about the 3rd one but the mg3 is heavy af and the mg5 still got some weight

rigid geyser
#

Can we give support the pp2000, but with a 200 round mag?

#

That's basically an lmg right?

#

can we give support every gun with a 200 round mag

#

But like, they're all nerfed into the ground to compensate of course

naive current
#

and reduce the firerate by 25% too

lunar sedge
naive current
stone iris
#

they both need to be pretty low

#

they are very slow to aim, reload, and move around

#

they should be low recoil to compensate. because right now they dont compensate

lunar sedge
#

The Ultimax having the 1.5x first shot recoil sucks so hard though. Bursting is good generally so if you're trying to use the low recoil to extend your range the 1.5 is gonna fuck with bursting. I think it's just a mean design to force me into holding down L1 when continuous fire isn't even the best thing most of the time.

stone iris
#

theyre just slow ARs with little more than magsize as advantage. and thats not a net advantage

#

yeah, MGs having high first-shot kick sucks

foggy comet
naive current
lunar sedge
#

Oh shit a ramping recoil mechanic would be hot.

foggy comet
naive current
#

ye mg3 and mg5 both with some recoil but fast ttk having that would be awesome
i like to imagine the mg3 gets 1100-1200rpm and a 4sk on flesh so like 30dmg
and the mg5 gets its 800rpm + a 3sk but a bunch of recoil, high risk high reward kinda gun, same for mg3 but a little less so ig...

naive current
foggy comet
#

bbr is not a realistic setting

naive current
stable horizon
foggy comet
#

I guess

naive current
#

that would be so god damn stupid
a mg3 having a high fsk is just mind boggling
"muh realism in gun handling" idc gimme "realism" in terms of gun usage, for the mg3 that's bursts

spice crest
stable horizon
modest fern
jaunty spear
#

oh shit that is actually a good point worth raising

#

Esp when vert is like half the value of horizontal RNG

cold birch
#

I've noticed that LMG's don't fire fast enough to counter somebody just running past what you're supposed to be holding. You can literally just shoot down a corridor and have people run by you because you still shoot too slow to punish people pushing. It doesn't matter if I can fire for 10 seconds straight if somebody can just run right through the beam with barely a scratch. You could literally be pre-firing around a corner towards someone you KNOW is behind it, and still lose if he decides to push you. I sincerely do not understand how LMG's have any upside as they currently exist if anybody can just say "Oh he pre-firing around this corner, let me just rush him or just go around and be behind him in ~3 seconds". You're actively punished for using the supposed upside of an LMG.

I'm not saying the LMG's are outright unusable, just in what world would you WANT to use them? You will not survive ~3 people pushing you from the same corner even if prefiring and that seems like a massive oversight.

spice crest
#

1st recoil should be on AR to balance them because they're good at everything and suppose to shoot heavier calibers than SMG
put every LMG on 1.00 normal like handguns, and push DMR to more. It'll provide a usefullness to Stabil grip that'll lower a bit DMR 1st recoil (and also put some 1st recoil on G3)

spice crest
#

The only way to give them a proper unique gameplay is too change again the bipod system, it's normal IRL (or ingame) to have weaker stats than an AR on midrange if you're not prone or crouch, but maybe some TTK close range should be a little up.
Thing is, if support movespeed get buffed, I still think LMG (M249/Ultimax) still have to be heavy to use, because it's heavy weapon, with low dmg fall off and very big mag + ammo so you can stand and clean a lot of people before being weakened (reloading time etc)

cold birch
# spice crest I think it really depends of the weapon, for example all M60 LMG in others FPS s...

I would say in those games it works because movement isn't at the same speed Battlebit is currently at. You can shutdown a peak area in Insurgency or even CSGO with LMGs because you literally can't run back into cover fast enough and you get slowed from damage. In a faster game like CoD its fine because like you said, you do enough damage for it to not matter, but this games movement is somehow faster then CoD making it an issue. Battlebit has, in my experience, the second fastest movement of a game I ever played and no hit slowdown making the LMG's have no niche unless they fire faster. If they have to lower the overrall damage of LMGs I would be fine with that. I want to at least HIT the person running across a alleyway, not for them to be so fast they can run through bullet fire completely unscathed.

I do agree movement should still be slower if they're buffed I wouldn't mind being able to move faster as Support if Oki doesn't decide to change LMGs, you already can't ADS so you have to rely on pre-firing (which is even worse on Support since you basically HAVE to be sprinting, which makes your pre-fire come out from the bottom left until it centers).

spice crest
#

yeah mobility is a problem, you can just dank sprintjumping evyerwhere like a dumbdumb it's minecraft gaming

cold birch
# spice crest That's a really good point. What could actually buff support is the slowdown aft...

Slowdown is at least somewhat implemented already (helicopter crash effect). Only issue I see with slowdown is due to the movement being so stupidly high. Think of like an Arena shooter or Titanfall where you're going like 200mph and suddenly you hit a brickwall because someone hit you once. Balance wise I think its a good decision to implement, however people may get extremely upset by it due to everyone being so used to going so fast with no consequences.

spice crest
silk zinc
#

that sounds like a great idea for milsim mode

spice crest
#

I wish it was actually in the normal game mode

silk zinc
#

i don't. the ttk is nearly instant and you want to slow movement by 20% when you get hit

#

that'd be disgusting

cold birch
#

TTK ain't instant for LMGs my friend.

silk zinc
#

the ultimax is the slowest at around .300 ms on unarmored (So all these speedy medics you complain about)

cold birch
silk zinc
#

snipers are pretty good yeah, they need some help with glint being broken and poorly implemented but they do fine, including stonewalling games from progressing on some maps

#

also, really? don't be stupid. ttk isn't the be all end all stat especially for a class WHOSE ROLE IS TO HOLD A LANE

spice crest
# silk zinc i don't. the ttk is nearly instant and you want to slow movement by 20% when you...

Actually not that much, in CQC you died almost every time if you don't kill the guy so if you're slowed well.. you're dead like you'd, if not you kill the guy then you live, or you slowed but you were getting killed anyway. It's just a way better thing when you chase someone or actually track someone far and shoot at him. 20% is not a lot specially if we're talking about "normal speed" classes like Medic, Assault, Engi

cold birch
# spice crest Nah there's always way to balance things around that. First thing is I don't thi...

I agree with you on balance, I'm more talking about reaction from the people that play the game. Countless times games have been balanced for the better with anger from the communities because the toy they played with was taken away or damaged. I don't agree with these reactions, this is more so me saying the devs would have to be prepared for an influx of posts criticizing a new implementation and to just take it away instead of testing for a few weeks/days before changing their minds.

silk zinc
#

you're more than likely getting first shot from a position where the majority of your body is hidden

silk zinc
#

i guess it would make it easier to deal with sweats because they would ALWAYS drop shot instead of having different tools

cold birch
# silk zinc also, really? don't be stupid. ttk isn't the be all end all stat especially for ...

I'm saying TTK doesn't matter if you don't even get an opportunity to use the gun. A pistol that has one shot and one shots, but has a 4 second draw time is absolute trash because other stats negate the TTK. It doesn't matter that the LMGs numerically have a fast TTK if they make you extremely slow, they take forever to ADS. If you reload using an LMG in a combat area you are practically dead, you quite literally are too slow to run to a safe area and reload.

spice crest
# silk zinc it would actually impact cqc, jump shotting/trying to reposition around nearby c...

Jump shotting is actually busted likealmost all animation from prone/run, jump/prone is for me a form of abuse, it's not realistic, basicly it's call of duty and I don't think it should be like that the game is already very nervous and ttk are low.
So as I said, it'll absolutely not change anything in CQC, if you're getting shoot by 2 guys you'll get slow a bit, that doesn't mean you'll loose it because you could also loose it because of poor strafing.

silk zinc
silk zinc
spice crest
#

If you are, then it's still the case

silk zinc
#

i feel like i specified both sides that the movespeed slow from tagging would kill jump shotting and all you would have left is drop shotters

spice crest
#

Nope

#

Because when you're slow, it's a total slow even from drop shotters and basicly drop shot should get removed from the game, it's shit

silk zinc
#

drop shotting has existed for 15 years, if you don't have a response for it that's a you issue

spice crest
#

At some point it'll never get fixed : because of poor coding OR because of poor animations, pick your poison

cold birch
spice crest
silk zinc
silk zinc
spice crest
#

No you're talking about feedback to change things here about LMG, I'm saying putting slow after shoot is a mechanic that exist from long time ago (actually way more than dropshooting) and then dropshooting should be removed, again, adapt

silk zinc
#

i understand your feedback. but that sounds like exactly what milsim mode wants to fill

spice crest
#

Actually BBR is way closer to a milsim than a cod even a BF game (when BBR copy paste BF gameplay), problem is Devs actually go on the two takes which is a very big mistake

#

that's why they should remove the dropshot it's garbage shit, animations will never get done, and the code will still be spaghetti so we will have problems to shoot on someones because of hitboxes
Check #1159035953902534656 and check the video of my dood lucuma

silk zinc
#

the hitboxes aren't broken, there is a lot of animation jank, like people walking off ledges and teleporting straight down

#

drop shotting just makes getting headshots easier anyway the vast majority of the time

#

that's a neat video, really funny when people say movement needs to go because atleast 3 separate people couldn't combine to land 4 shots

cold birch
# silk zinc why are you not already in cover? the only running you need to do is to get to t...

You literally just described the issues I have with Support. Again, he is the ONLY class that has to do this where everyone else can just run cover to cover without issues. What if the spot you chose seemingly cleared? You either stay and are bored or risk crossing the street where some people were waiting for you behind a wall and you die without any counter play. If I were Assault or Engineer in that situation I could feasibly turn to the car on the street or a pillar and attempt to get a quick angle. If I try that on Support I just die because I either:

Die because draw speed is so slow
Die because the target is at medium range and my ADS is too slow
Die because movement speed is so slow I can't even prone at a reasonable speed

Support shouldn't be "You stay in this alleyway and shoot until your mag empties", even Recon who is more or less "Stay very far away and snipe" can get up close with pistols or with snipers without a scope if skilled enough because he has the speed to do so.

silk zinc
#

support can't have those other tools because they're balanced around having functionally 200 hp

spice crest
silk zinc
#

welcome to why we need an armor rework

silk zinc
#

there's definite issues with desync in the 127's though

spice crest
silk zinc
#

they are not, unless you're talking about 127 frontline

spice crest
#

... because it's not a 127?

#

And I'm playing on 64 most of the time, just have some big problems like dumping a whole mag and having 1 hitmarker (was server side issue). About hitboxes there's some problems when prone position on specific textures, just had some issues with that yesterday while DMRing (no lag this time)

cold birch
#

Exo isn't even that good on Support anymore since everyone has learned to just shoot the arms/legs. Kind of just a design issue that would inevitably happen over time as people learned how to play the game more. I try to play Support still and my armor barely gets shot off anymore since so many have learned.

silk zinc
#

i don't have that problem at all

spice crest
silk zinc
#

and server side hitreg/connections issues has nothing to do with hitboxes

spice crest
silk zinc
#

armor rework hopefully soon alongside some new guns for support and hopefully some buffs

#

tired of the ump/groza meta

cold birch
spice crest
spice crest
silk zinc
#

yeah there's plenty of server issues, the hitboxes aren't broken though. there's jank animations (or in some cases jank because there's no animation at all) but it's not breaking the hitboxes

spice crest
#

You don't have the code to be sure, I don't have the code to be sure, we can do hypothesis but that doesn't change anything. Thing is I shot on his legs, he doesn't take damage, then he did after other shots on an other spot of his body

cold birch
spice crest
#

So because of that => let's go back to the source of the thread => it could be cool to slow or fix the animations first, then it could also buff the support class by standing and shooting at guys when setup

spice crest
silk zinc
#

fixing animations yes, supports really don't need more help fighting in the hotspot if you position well and use the angles available to you

cold birch
#

Also, with hitbox issues yeah its never really hitboxes being broken. Its the actual animations not following the hitboxes that causes issues. If somebody is prone the hitbox is usually 100% accurate in games, but if the animation places the model to the left or right making you shoot at the model instead of the invisible hitbox it makes you think the hitbox is wrong or you got a no reg. You can see this with the cosmetics and people saying their hits weren't registering, the cosmetics being bigger then the player hitbox was the issue since they were technically still missing. This is just so much worse in Battlebit since you literally can't predict where a player will go with no inertia being present.

This is a major thing in something like TF2 where if somebody is rocket jumping you sometimes want to snipe ahead of the player model. The person is going so fast the model is lagging behind the hitbox, but its practically 100% predictable since players have movement restrictions so you can just make an educated guess where to shoot.

silk zinc
#

as far as i've been able to tell across my 300 hours in battlebit, there's no hitbox jank (just weirdness with animations, again, mostly the lack there of. things like people walking off of one of the buildable covers and they nearly teleport from on top of it to standing on the ground). the only times i see weirdness with hitreg is when i'm lagging or the master server is having issues

#

if you're having issues with desync i'd try playing on a different server where you have a better connection

modest fern
modest fern
rigid geyser
#

I see Okami also was here lol

spice crest
naive current
modest fern
#

and even a game like Crysis with it's speed mode struggles to keep that speed up due to the various notes

naive current
#

i mean if you're mechanically so similar that only a double jump, dash and slide would be needed to turn you into a top tier movement shooter meanwhile another class moves at ~60% speed for having "armor" is just dumb as heck

spice crest
#

and it's famous for that at prolevel

#

certenly not the only one there but from I've in mind rn

naive current
spice crest
#

The other mechanics are really bad for BF game imo it'll just more way more chaos when there's already lot of problems to fix

#

no need to have double jump or weird stuff, animations are already clunky af

naive current
spice crest
#

You can kill fast, heal swap ammo, chit chat fast and then go go

naive current
spice crest
#

some don't follow your stuff but others did, sometimes you can have very good time with them

#

obv if you just use the VC to spam, swear or just not use it.. well it's not usefull I agree

naive current
spice crest
#

I mean you can also create the squad and ask for squad teamplay

#

the squad system in-game is actually great for that

naive current
#

ofc ofc...

topaz leaf
#

All I ever use squad chat for is asking for respawns on me when I’m about to engage an objective…

#

Only ever 1 person actually does so…

#

I’ve had 2 rounds in my plethora of games where I actually had solid squad comms and team play

#

We held a choke with alternating support players wielding MGs. One ran outta ammo, dipped down, other came up and kept firing while was pumping heals into them

#

9000 healing in a game HyperXD

#

Our recon flanked and pincered them so any that would dip back into cover before the supports got them got picked off by him instead

#

We held that point fr fr

#

(Which leads me to believe that support only works in its intended role of defense when you actively play around it with your team which won’t happen in 90% of games)

rigid geyser
#

In conquest support is most effective holding up on one obj and defending it

#

But it's hard to do that sometimes 😔

naive current
rigid geyser
#

This is also true lol

modest fern
topaz leaf
#

Waki tunnels FeelsOKMan

spice crest
#

reminds me metro

hollow summit
#

Finally unlocked the l86 drum mag, but it might as well not exist for how not worth it it is

stone iris
hollow summit
#

True that brother

modest fern
hollow summit
#

Add on worse aim down, worse draw speed, worse recoil by at least .2 in both hori and vert...

#

And I thought support was supposed to be "for sustained fire."

#

There is nothing sustained fire about the l86 or the mg36(unless you count the 10 extra rounds the mg36 gets)

modest fern
#

I shall state this again, I kinda feel like support should get a passive to reduce the downsides of extended magazines if/when he gets the Battle rifles or another category

hollow summit
#

Just a passive recoil modifier would be good

topaz leaf
#

Also make magazines more consistent across all guns so that every gun is playing with the same values in that regard hmmnice

#

Which is my way of saying buff quick mag on HB catBlop

foggy comet
#

The base gun runs out of ammo so quickly

#

Move speed penalty isn’t nice but that gets ignored if you pull out your sidearm

modest fern
hollow summit
#

My only gripe is the recoil

modest fern
#

my gripe is it only is a one upside for effectively how many downsides & some large ones at that (large being 20% or more of a penalty)

stone iris
#

L86 and MG36 default mags need changing up. Change the L86 drum mag to 60rnds, and make it the default mag with all of the current base stats with the current default mag except reload speed, which would inherit the current drum mag reload speed.

Same for the MG36; give the drum mag 100 rounds and make itthe default mag, with all of the current base stats with the current default mag, except reload speed, which would inherit the current drum mag reload speed (which is already slower than the 100-rnd ultimax reload, so you dont even need to change the reload speed when making the drum mag 100 rounds... actually its almost as slow as the ultimax+bipod reload, 6.31 vs 6.59)

You can then have the current default mags be treated as "quick/short mags", with debuffs to draw speed and first shot kick (NOT recoil itself) and control, and a buff to movement speed as well as reload speed (duh)

These LSWs are, with their default 30-rnd and 40-rnd mags, already as slow as the LMGs, and with their respective drum mags, their movement speed is a fucking joke. They also have a shit tonne of recoil for how slow they are. Their current base recoil and movement speed values would make sense their drum mags (with the aforementioned increases to capacity), but instead you get all that recoil and slow movement with a regular AR-sized mag, and leads to a generally underwhelming gun for any class to use, and is entirely unsuitable for Support's role of "supporting/suppressive fire"

hot flint
#

I would enjoy LMGs being more differentiated from other guns. Have them do more long range damage like sniper rifles do, and make the bullet wooshes and bullet trails very distinctive, but make them less accurate. That way they are better as suppression tools, players will recognize the danger, and they'll be less "heavy m4 with infinite mag" or whatever. Instead of melting individual enemies, you would use them to do "area denial" kind of. Maybe the bullet impacts could cause a lot of dust and sparks too.

stone iris
#

thats pretty much exactly the current issue with how much recoil the LMGs AND LSWs have. You just cant actually suppress anyone, because you cant hit them all that reliably. It results in guns that handle poorly and make you move slow, but also arent actually very good at hitting enemies, on a class that already moves slow (because of armour that also doesnt really do what it should), so youre pretty much an easy kill for most other classes

hot flint
# stone iris decreasing accuracy would only make them worse at suppression. you cant suppress...

True, maybe the damage curve change is all it would really need. The idea is that if you get hit by one of those random bullets you are in trouble, and it's creating a wall of fire essentially.

My idea of implementation is likely to be bad, since I'm not at all a game dev, but the sentiment is there. Something that is dangerous at range but not something you would target individuals with. Right now They just feel like assault rifles with big fat mags, and they don't make a significant difference in gameplay.

stone iris
#

hmm. it might be rather difficult to make them dangerous to groups of people at longer ranges without also necessarily making them dangerous to a single person (in other words, if its not dangerous to one person, how do you make it dangerous to two people? four people?)

#

also, if they arent effective against single enemies, it just makes it that much harder to counter lone-wolfers

#

which i think is something they could be very useful for if they get their recoil reduced (theyre already slow as hell, reduced recoil would give them their niche)

hot flint
hot flint
#

Like 100 snipers firing blind at that area from across the map haha

stone iris
hot flint
#

Again, it might be entirely the wrong way to do it, and the better way could be to change something elsewhere entirely

stone iris
#

especially since, given what LMGs are, a support player cant chase a medic and finish them off before they bandage and heal

hot flint
#

I just miss the LMGs, and indeed the different guns in general, being more differentiated.

#

Having different roles, encouraging different styles of play

stone iris
#

aye, support is by far the most "different" class, but that comes from it being mostly shit, doing everything else worse than the other classes without any positives in trade. do enough digging around in this thread, youll find plenty of ideas more towards fixing the bipod and reducing LMG recoil in general, at the cost of mobility, essentially letting them use their LMGs as machine guns instead of obnoxiously cumbersome ARs without any real advantage to being heavy. That would play well into support's identity and would also in-turn increase their accuracy, and thus lethality, at longer ranges

hot flint
#

I believe Squad makes the LMGs basically unusable if you don't have it supported with a bipod?

#

I do like that idea. As long as it is fierce when bipodded.

stone iris
#

hm. BBR is probably a bit too "arcadey run-n-gun" for that

#

it would just be another unnecessary nerf for support

modest fern
stone iris
hot flint
lunar sedge
#

God I can't wait for the M60 with 51 dmg and 500 rpm
The RPD that's basically just an AK15 but LMG and hopefully not ass

#

And a working bipod. Please.

steady zealot
#

can guns just be judged by their weight as it should effect them including recoil? that would fix alot of problems with firing sustained fire, for any weapon, but especially LMGs(and other heavy guns)

weary portal
#

One of the tricky things about balancing LMGs is that in an arcade setting like BBR, they’re functionally a heavy assault rifle.

The LMG is the centerpiece of a squad’s firepower, whose hail of bullets keeps heads down and lets a squad move under its protection. In milsims, they’re easier to balance since they more accurately depict the use of such weapons.

Here, that isn’t the case, and if properly imbalanced can make anyone wielding them Rambo. Thus, I think it would be better to treat them as heavier assault rifles, guns that excel at holding a position than trying to compete with SMGs.

steady zealot
#

that's what they are as of now.

#

the kill well, you just can't use mag size to its potential.

#

the slow motion handling makes them feel really clunky, as well as the speed debuffs. Weight should mean that at least the LSWs should be able to be run faster.

weary portal
hollow summit
#

I just realized, but why do all the lmgs have less velocity than their counterparts?

steady zealot
#

you know I never paid attention to that. what are the stats?

weary portal
naive current
weary portal
naive current
#

ultimax, m249 and mg36 would benefit from some velocity imo

weary portal
#

And more damage to vehicles.

naive current
stable horizon
#

~960m/s

naive current
#

well a lot of guns don't have that
funniest example being the as val with a velocity of 440m/s while actually only having around 290 HyperXD

trim sable
weary portal
hollow summit
#

70% of the assault rifles having 700 velocity despite having different barrel lengths and calibers

#

Literally all of the lmgs/lsws having 600 or 650 velocity despite having the same calibers as the ars

naive current
#

with longer barrels

naive current
hollow summit
#

Oki originally wanting a milsim

#

Also Oki making all the velocity values in the weirdest way possible

trim sable
naive current
#

ye

stone iris
naive current
stone iris
#

Well the vector has 50% more RPM. But yeah, especially with the new hitreg system (which I still really think needs to go in the bin, Oki.) even guns like the Vector can feel like trying to shoot an F18 with nerf darts.

naive current
stone iris
naive current
#

yeah that's definitely a problem and annoying af

stone iris
naive current
steady zealot
#

I have yet to have a more than 1 hit denied since that update was pushed, is it really that common?

stone iris
steady zealot
#

ah that

stone iris
#

it also makes the M200 just that much more oppressive compared to other snipers. If your bullet reaches the enemy first and kills them, it doesnt really matter how accurate they are

steady zealot
#

thats actually because they died ms before you hit them

#

I've had that happen at alot of ranges and someone else kills the guy as I start shooting but I just hit the ragdoll, still get hitmarkers

stone iris
#

nah, thats a different thing. like yeah that 100% happens, but that happened with the old system too

#

tbh i think its a difference of the new system having purposefully designed kill-trading out of the game, whereas it wasnt a consideration with the previous system, so trades happened occasionally at very long ranges

steady zealot
#

hmm, I haven't that happen that often at all, and when it does its usually because I'm shooting someone that a blueberry is already shooting

#

that could also be true, but it still happens up close

stone iris
#

well according to Oki, trades dont happen at all 🙃

#

which is uh

#

lol

steady zealot
#

i mean sure it might be harder, but thats only if you are rocking the same weapon class. trades happen all the time if you got different weapon types.... don't know why that is, but it is

naive current
#

according to oki control does smth xD

steady zealot
#

I mean it does

#

not anything major

#

but it does help with mid to long range shooting

naive current
#

and apparently it allows smgs and such to dominate in cqc?

steady zealot
#

ehhhhh

#

not really in a straight fight

#

except when you are like barrel stuffing the other guy

naive current
#

fal long barrel 😳

modest fern
stone iris
modest fern
#

hmm,Grenades?

stone iris
#

Nah, it'll invalidate gun projectiles that are still in-flight when you die. It's pretty dumb imo

steady zealot
#

...I think that's more latency than anything man

#

the server didn't recieve you gun shot packet

#

cause that happens in a lot of games when you have slighterly higher ping or even a small amount of packet loss

stone iris
steady zealot
#

could also be the person moved, at range you can dodge those shots if you know where they are coming from

#

going prone, walking down a slope, especially since you are aiming for the head, hell leaning would also make you miss

stone iris
#

im talking specifically about getting hits (i.e. hitmarkers) that are ignored

steady zealot
#

hitmarkers are client side as well

#

not serverside

#

most of the time they are right, but that is why the scenarios I mentioned can happen

stone iris
#

thats still not my point lol

#

whether it be serverside or clientside, its something that i never saw even once with the previous system

steady zealot
#

I mean you are saying the bullets are being invalidated. can you actually say that is true or are you just trusting the client side hitmarkers?

stone iris
#

why give me a hitmarker if its not an actual hit

#

especially when the previous system wouldnt

steady zealot
#

the previous system did, there was just a much, much smaller time frame for it to occur. again this usually happens when they die just before your bullets reach them

#

I assume its the check system for custom hitmarkers that slow it down

stone iris
steady zealot
#

also

#

you get a hitmarker if you hit an enemy model

#

always, since its client side

#

I happened to be on a server getting DDOS'd in view of an enemy

#

I emptied my mag into him, and got a bunch of headshots (markers), but obviously the shots were denied.

#

So, I'm thinking its less the "hit reg" system, and more the "client side hitmarkers" that is your problem here

stone iris
#

well, regardless of the cause of it, i think its very much a "if it aint broke dont fix it, and fix it properly if you do" sort of thing

steady zealot
#

yeah, maybe an option for non-custom hitmarkers tied to the server maybe?

stone iris
#

because yeah, previous system had its flaws. im not trying to say it didnt. but in general this new one just doesnt feel like an improvement

steady zealot
#

I still think its the hitmarkers giving false positives over the hit reg being bad

stone iris
steady zealot
#

I like the custom hitmarkers don't get me wrong

#

but making them only client side with no option to have hitmarkers tied to the server is not the best plan

#

before the custom hitmarker patch, hitmarkers were tied to the server ftr

stone iris
steady zealot
#

that's my point, being able to select a tab to have them on or off would be an easy fix when oki gets back

stone iris
#

its one of those Oki moments where you gotta wonder what the hell he was thinking

steady zealot
#

I mean, its fun, and mostly not a problem

#

but well as with most new systems

#

problems get found

stone iris
#

well, in my uneducated PoV, it doesnt seem like a good idea to have hitmarkers done clientside for any reason if hit registration isnt ALSO being done clientside (which i would assume is a big no-no)

steady zealot
#

just give us a check box for custom hitmarkers or not. boom problem solved

stone iris
#

itll inevitably lead to these sorts of discrepancies that make it hard for players to understand "what the hell just happened, why did he eat half of my mag?"

steady zealot
#

yeah. Check box though, would hopefully help

stone iris
#

hopefully. but knowing oki, hes gonna devote like a week to player challenges when he gets back instead

steady zealot
#

I don't mind it because I mostly chill and like my custom setup, but well I can see that being a problem to other people more used to casual games

steady zealot
#

I don't mind playing support, I like it actually, but goddamn

stone iris
steady zealot
stone iris
steady zealot
#

I.. don't know. Honestly they are easy enough I can get them done in an hour or two on day one, then I don't think about them. I'll have to pay attention next week

#

I only remember the support ones because they haven't changed at all

stone iris
#

im pretty sure the ak74 challenge from week 1 has also already repeated once

foggy comet
#

Custom hitmarkers would not at all mean hitmarkers can’t be server side

#

Maybe oki changed it to this because he thought people would complain less about hit reg if they always got hit markers

zealous jolt
#

kat what do you guys think of this for the support class lmg weapons ?

images_-_2023-11-01T104715.751.jpg
naive current
#

more dakka! this is what i need!
i can just imagine myself screaming "come get some" while holding down a burst into the enemy onslaught

cerulean heart
#

All I need is an m60 and 300 round backpack

naive current
#

mg3 for that fire rate

fleet gate
#

Yes

topaz leaf
naive current
cerulean heart
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Support shotguns could go crazy

naive current
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!shotguns

dense cobaltBOT
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Info Are you planning the addition of shotguns?

NO

⠀

naive current
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i desire dakka, not skill issue compensators which don't even fit the class' playstyle

zealous jolt
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what the hell is a support shotgun

steady zealot
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Support (with a) shotgun

pale sleet
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Slug aa12 drum mag now

stuck oxide
steady zealot
foggy comet
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Hit markers are always client side (because duh, they’re on the client), what matters is if the client waits for server side confirmation before displaying them to the user.

naive current
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feels like kill (conformation) hit markers are serverside, just a guess tho

foggy comet
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Yeah

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It gives you white hit markers on the client by default

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They change colour after server confirmation

pale sleet
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attachment changes are nice especially the bipod but the lmgs still could use some buffs

trim sable
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i don't know about more buffs tbh, both the ultimax and the m249 are absolute menaces with the right setup and spacial awareness

steady zealot
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other than velocity, damage or ads times I don't think they require any buffs, and even then with the belts velocity and damage would be hard sells to buff.

weary portal
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I think the Ultimax is in a pretty good spot as it is. Maybe the 249 could use a little more love (maybe it’s own custom bipod so it sits on the front like the real one), but I can’t see how else LMGs could be buffed without making them too deadly.

Maybe up the SAW’s rate of fire so it’s more of a foil to the Ultimax.

hollow summit
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Bipod still needs to more reliably deploy

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I've had gun recoil undeploy the bipod

steady zealot
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just let us deploy it ourselves goddamn

hollow summit
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It's made worse by the fact that most barriers are at exactly the wrong height

foggy jewel
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we need bipod mounting

hollow summit
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Please Oki, jusst take a page out of Enlisteds book

naive current
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i'd be up for velocity and damage fall off buffs
even the m249 now easily reaches over 100m

trim sable
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I feel like the current bipods are great at remedying what few issues I had with LMG use tbh, but I say that as a rat bastard that redeploys at 5 different spots close to the main fight and just cleans up sightlines there

trim sable
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It would be interesting for bipods to have some drawback though, not recoil wise, they're perfect, but honestly looking at both how they perform in DMRs and LMGs makes me think they should either have some drawback to them, or be present in every gun that has them besides a grip option(recoil control doesn't stack, or it would be hell to balance)

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Since atm there isn't much of a plausible justification to not take a bipod

I don't think that's the worse that could happen anyways

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(This is much more balanced than the previous version, this here is mostly a nitpick)

steady zealot
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or just make the grips better at different things. a bipod shouldnt effect you so much as to have a massive drawback over not having anything in that slot

trim sable
naive current
trim sable
naive current
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i just want more velocity and dmg fall off, shooting at, maybe hitting multiple times after figuring your distance to account for out at over 100m with an ultimax feels sad kittenCry

trim sable
modest fern
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you get a lot more for defensive play with bipods than with other grips & vice versa

modest fern
naive current
pale sleet
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It should be as simple as. The slowest automatic to setup, aim down sights, reload, etc. Should be the deadliest when it gets ripping.

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i honestly hope we get an LMG with the recoil of a 12g slug and fuck you-damage

stable horizon
hollow summit
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That'll probably be more the M60's wheelhouse

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Willing to bet the MG5 ends up more like the F2 with better range and ROF

pale sleet
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just really hope we get a meta LMG to compete with literally any of the other automatic categories

naive current
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m60 with a 2sk, mg3 with 1200rpm and a 4sk and mg5 with 800rpm with a 3sk moment

modest fern
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750-800 RPM at 3 tap damage with good deal of recoil

weary portal
pale sleet
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Ultimax 100 still needs a draw speed buff.

1.7 seconds to swap weapons is a nightmare to deal with in any circumstance, and in closer ranges its a massive disadvantage on an already not that powerful gun.

foggy comet
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I think it's fair enough

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the gun is really strong, it fits as a way to stop it being too flexible for CQC

hollow summit
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For the love of all that is good and right, can we please get more velocity on the support weapons

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The estimated real life velocity(according to google) is about 900

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What we get is 600, at 100 less than the m4 which fires the same round

grim orbit
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I know it's not quite the reason the Light Support Weapons exist but it would be nice to have bipods for those as well as the more traditional belt fed/LMGs

modest fern