Designated Marksman Rifles (General) - Feedback

[zealous oasis]

omg brain far

fart

[fringe whale]

I mean... It is certainly meant to be

[zealous oasis]

it is not a battle rifle

sorry im rather deprived of sleep

[fringe whale]

It is not, though battle rifle is an incredibly arbitrary thing anyway that isn't handled particuarlly well anyway

[zealous oasis]

mk14 is a perfectly fine baseline for what a battle rifle is in BBR

and apparently SVD is too now

[fringe whale]

so randomly gutted magazines on an automatic rifle

[zealous oasis]

yep

i personally dont really think the mk14 is going to have a comfortably large niche even after the changes, at least assuming the ARs dont also get a bunch of changes with this next patch

[fringe whale]

Why do the SCAR, and FAL get to have normal magazine sizes then? They function in largly the same was as the MK14 just with worse falloff past 300m, but that range is also largly not relevent

I see no world where the MK14 justifies itself over the SCAR or FAL

next patch

[zealous oasis]

but again, the M110 is simply being deliberately moved away from said "battle rifles"

[fringe whale]

So it should be a DMR... not a shitty sniper rifle

but they are positioning like a shitty sniper rifle

[zealous oasis]

and at 3+x the fire rate, it is a DMR

without a doubt

[fringe whale]

3x the rate of fire and require 100-200% more rounds to kill.

The rte of fire is not an advantage in any practical way here

And you have sniper rifle ammo counts while requiring 2-3x as many rounds to kill

[zealous oasis]

why is it not?

two shots kills someone within the max damage range

by "sniper rifle ammo counts", you mean the L96

[fringe whale]

Because, a 0TTK means targets do not get to react. Anything more than 0TTK means you are shooting at air strafing nonsense. And you can 2 shot before falloff sure, until you hit any armor and you are back to 3 shot. The consistancy is not there

[zealous oasis]

which has significantly more ammo than any other sniper rifle

with the exception of the SSG

MSR is 5, M200 is 7, SV can only ever have 10

[fringe whale]

no L96 has MORE ammo than the M110 post patch in practical terms since there is no reason not to use extended mag

[zealous oasis]

ive already said i dont agree with the mag reductions

its a bit silly

[fringe whale]

The mag reductions only make sense if they actually expand the base magazine capacity to the proper 20 rounds on DMRs. But they really seem to hate the idea of DMRs having decent mag sizes

[zealous oasis]

however, the M110 will be 2-tap by default with the same recoil as the FAL. and with the much higher velocity, you have to lead less, which gives less room for error when leading targets

[fringe whale]

with 50% more recoil than the FAL

First shot multiplier is not going away

[zealous oasis]

then dont use the thing like a FAL

i think the devs are trying to push the whole DMR niche back by a 100m or so

[fringe whale]

I mean they just get HARD out competed by sniper at that range

[zealous oasis]

at what range

i didnt even say a range

[fringe whale]

well before they were only "optimal" at around 270m exactly due to weapon falloff rates

and even then sniper were better

and at 100m... snipers were also jsut better

[zealous oasis]

snipers are no better at 270m than at 170m

or 70m

[raven parrot]

Depends what you mean by “better”

[zealous oasis]

their performance does not change

[raven parrot]

If the enemy finds it harder to fight back then you’ll perform better. If you can’t hit them as well you’ll perform worse

For range to be unrelated to performance outside of damage dropoff doesn’t make sense

[fringe whale]

Snipers essentially eat the DMR niche alive, largly because they are effectivly alkl range weapons up until like 30m

[zealous oasis]

not until around 600m

so, they eat every niche alive by that logic, no?

[fringe whale]

I mean I'd argue they largly do up until SMG optimal range

[zealous oasis]

and id argue M4

[fringe whale]

But I think snipers are a huge design problem in general in FPS games and this game is no exception to that

[zealous oasis]

im not gonna bet money even on myself against an m4 at 70-100m with anything but an M200

[fringe whale]

0TTK weapons are just a nightmare to make "fair" and BBR doesn't do a good job of that

[raven parrot]

A sniper is not going to beat an AR at like 80m in a perfectly balanced fight

[raven parrot]

I think it does - they managed to stop them being meta or just powerful in CQC which many games don’t manage

[zealous oasis]

inverted damage curve does a perfectly fine job

[fringe whale]

I mean I think medium scopes on snipers invalidate DMRs completely, I know it won't happen but the biggest buff to DMRs would just be restricting snipers to long range optics

Stratagy lots of games use to force snipers out of shorter ranges

[zealous oasis]

i frankly agree there

im of the opinion that so long as sniper rifles have access to medium scopes, DMRs will have a very hard time having their own niche. but so long as long scopes have glint, removing medium scopes risks alienating snipers as a whole playerbase

and i doubt anyone here is unfamiliar with how much foaming SMG medics start producing when you mention removing glint (perhaps rightly so, im no-one to say whether they are or arent)

its a tricky problem to tackle

[fringe whale]

I think glint is a good mechanic, but needs the cone where it appears drastically reduced to make it much less of a beacon. But the core problem of DMRs is that they cannot compete with ARs eithing AR range, and cannot really compete with snipers within longer ranges. They are always a halfway step that never hits a niche.

I don't think they are unusable even now, I have 2000+ m110 kills and love using the gun and you can make it work, but it is something that always feels like you are playing the game wrong when you do it.

And I don't think the proposed changes do anything to alter that.

Though the ammo reduction is going to SUCK, esspecially for people without ranger armor unlocked. Already really easy to run out of ammo on DMRs.

[zealous oasis]

normal armour and ranger armour are statistically identical

i.e. a pretty early unlock

[fringe whale]

iirc it is a level 100 unlock

[zealous oasis]

(for recon specifically)

no, normal is like level 20 or something

[fringe whale]

is that just recon? I suppose it may be less there. I primarly do not play recon when I use DMRs. Either Assault or Engineer

[zealous oasis]

yep

[fringe whale]

which are higher level ranger unlocks

[zealous oasis]

its not less, just more. normal is +6 just like ranger

i frankly dont remember that being the case

[fringe whale]

I know medic ranger armor was level 100

[zealous oasis]

well thats what im saying. for recon, normal is the same stats as ranger, instead of the same stats as normal armour for other classes

and ive already got normal armour for recon at level 38 post-prestige

[blazing coral]

Yeah I feel like it’s not intended to be that way lol

[zealous oasis]

hell, i feel like it wasnt that way

i swear i remember being distinctly excited for ranger armour on recon specifically because it gives even more ammo than normal, which itself gave more than the crummy light armour

also, i swear the normal armour on recon had more durability than light?

currently it does not

[raven parrot]

Yeah that seems like a mistake

[tulip warren]

If it had a 750 rpm like it does irl

[jagged jay]

dmr changes are mostly fine altho i have no idea why they made dmrs have less mags, like im pretty sure sniper rifles have more ammo now despite DMRS requiring twice the ammount of bulets to do the same thing

hoping devs will read through here again before the update goes live

[tulip warren]

I'm 99% sure they outsource their balancing 💀

[raven parrot]

I’ve seen people state that in a wave over the past few days

Where does that come from

[tulip rapids]

ig we have to wait till the patch drops to properly test the changes, personally the m110 has been nerfed but we can only speculate for now

[tulip warren]

It means they take their balance changes from outside the playerbase

[raven parrot]

According to what

(And the playerbase would not be the ones doing balancing anyway, so your statement seems redundant? It would be the devs)

[tulip warren]

Cool

[spice lintel]

DMR UPDATE IN 47 MINS
THIS IS NOT A DRILL

[distant coyote]

the only thing we need now is input queueing

[snow crescent]

He has 14 minutes left to add it

[gleaming socket]

So how we feeling with the new DMRs?

MK20 slaps

[olive latch]

checked them out on shooting range, they feel real nice

[distant coyote]

im gonna try it

feels better to use

would be even better with input buffer/queue

[random osprey]

svd is very noice

[jagged jay]

update feels good however the m110's horizontal recoil is too much it makes follow up shorts much more annoying than vertical recoil does

that plus revert the mag changes and adding input queing should do fine

[quaint canopy]

SVD is very nice.

Not really used the others to much wanna get 500 kills with every DMR now.

[jagged jay]

i take this back

after playing a few rounds with it

it feels fine

ammo too

i think all we need is input queing

[olive fog]

DMR UPDATE IS AMAZING!!! M110 WRECKS!!! TY DEVS!!!

[long bronze]

M110 is an absolute monster right now, thanks oki

SVD needs long barrel to be consistent now

[tulip rapids]

All the people who cba to get 350 m110 kills before finally learning lmao

when people find out that m110 long barrel headshot is 80 damage

https://tenor.com/view/frank-castle-wait-please-stop-please-no-please-gif-21133188

[jagged jay]

the mk14 is actually good

i thought id be trash

i just got 17 kills in one life on frugis using it

[blazing coral]

Shhhhhh don’t tell ‘em

[wide saddle]

legit, the recoil is awesome and I consistently getting kills if my aim tracking wasnt potato

[jagged jay]

yeah

kinda make the aug obselete tho

ig the aug has better velocity and control but stuill

[wide saddle]

tap firing feels pretty decent, full autoing under 30 meters feels awesome

[jagged jay]

yep

[wide saddle]

back then we had to REALLY pull down if you didnt grind the attachment

but now it feels fun

[jagged jay]

yep

[tall sequoia]

mk14 with its IRL RPM when

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/853248666123108363.webp?size=48&name=doge_troll&quality=lossless

[wide saddle]

never

[jagged jay]

i think that would be too op

[tall sequoia]

would be ok bro, it only has a 14 round mag bro

trust me bro

[gleaming socket]

😈

[jagged jay]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh

nah

[wide saddle]

I read on reddit how they said devs butcher the dmrs with the buffs like what, it hasnt been out yet

[jagged jay]

it is out

they released today

[wide saddle]

I know, i enjoy reading their reaction

[jagged jay]

lb on m110 lets it 2 shot body kill at 500m

[zealous oasis]

m110 short mag feels completely useless now lol

which is sad since that was, prior to the changes, one of my favourite attachments in the game

that aside, the other changes for the m110 feel solid

[fringe whale]

DMR just need larger magazines (20 normal/10 short), or they need to revert the mag changes

the other changes are pretty w/e imo

Ammo nerf makes me feel like I have to play assault to have enough ammo

[jagged jay]

yeah thats what i do

dmrs feel really nice with asasult

ive like doubled my kd since ive started using them

[tulip rapids]

rest in peace m110 short mag + urk it is unuseable now

you will be missed

[tulip rapids]

community servers which limit recon when u play squad leader with drone ap and m110

https://tenor.com/view/frank-castle-wait-please-stop-please-no-please-gif-21133188

[vernal mauve]

No one talking about how not using the long barrel on the m110 shits on your accuracy? 99 Long barrel acc vs 94 Muzzle break. The m110 just feels shit even with muzzle break and BCM grip and even worse with the mag reduction.

[tulip rapids]

long barrel still best on m110

i havent tested it but headshot 80 damage so theoretically get assist counts as kill whilst more velocity and less horizontal

[vernal mauve]

Hmm yeah just tested it 80.33 dmg per HS

[tulip rapids]

ye just tested its assist counts as kill no helmet

So m110 long barrel is basically a sniper with triple the firerate lmao

[fringe whale]

well... without actually getting kills

[tulip rapids]

Counts as kills ring a bell

[fringe whale]

doesn't give level up exp

just gives score and attachmnent progression

[tulip rapids]

No but scoreboard/k/d

The question now is what is the best class for dmrs?

[fringe whale]

Assault 100%, actually has enough ammo to use the guns

[tulip rapids]

I figure assault for the passives unless u want a drone then recon

U get ranger vest on recon too

[fringe whale]

Assault gets ammo boxes

you run out fast even with ranger armor

[tulip rapids]

no ranger vest gives more ammo

u must be thinking of light

[fringe whale]

I know what ranger armor gives... you still run out VERY fast with ranger

[tulip rapids]

oh i misread

[fringe whale]

It is the only weapon class I consistantly run out of ammo for right now

[tulip rapids]

i havent testewd enough so ig i will see if i run out consistently or not (probably) but it depends on if the player does or not whether its useful or not

[tulip warren]

Atm assault because of the higher ads and reload speed

[nimble plinth]

yo what dmrs are worth trying after the buff

[gleaming socket]

All of them

[tulip rapids]

M110 long barrel + gun fighter

[tulip warren]

I havent played the update, was worried about mk14 but am ready to eat my words

[tulip rapids]

Unless u want drone, i find i dont run out of ammo with a ranger vest but ye assault has all other utility recon has and a passive

[tulip rapids]

I ate my words also smh

[jagged jay]

all of them but mk20 and mk14 are my personal fav

[tulip warren]

Okay I don't think they applied the new velocity change to the mk14

its still saying its at 770

[jagged jay]

could be a ui glitch like what we saw with the as val and honey badger sound suppresion

[tulip warren]

Yeah its way better than what it used to be

[gleaming socket]

Check again

[jagged jay]

huh\

[tulip warren]

Not just ui but devs have said its patched

Very quick

[jagged jay]

oh ok

[tulip warren]

Next update tho

So just gonna have to wait till then

Its still very good tho

[jagged jay]

yeah i have like 170 kills witah mk14 already

very good

[tulip warren]

mk20 is based now too

[gleaming socket]

Asval and Honey are correct in the UI though?

[jagged jay]

yeah they patched it

when they first buffed them they werent tho

[gleaming socket]

Nah, the UI was just bugged

Just like draw speed is

[jagged jay]

wish the mk14 didnt sound so goofy

[nimble plinth]

ok wow m110 is so much better in terms of recoil

last time i used it i remember looking at a constelation after one shot

now i can actually keep looking at my target

[fringe whale]

I'll be honest, I hardly notice the recoil difference

I mostly just notice the lack of ammo, but I do get to use a suppressor now I guess which is nice?

[jagged jay]

imo getting rid of the vertical recoil and moving that to horizontal is worse imo

still better than it was before cause the damage

but id rather use mk20

I don't think anything should be changed all the guns feel good

we do need input queing tho

For all semis not just dmrs

[tulip warren]

This

[fringe whale]

I just checked the current recoil against the old recoil and it is basically exactly he same magnitude of recoil.

Old setup w/ long barrel: 37 pixel horizontal recoil, 273 pixel vertical recoil | TOTAL: 310 pixels of recoil
New setup w/ short suppressor: 100 pixel horizontal recoil, 219 pixel vertical recoil | Total 319 pixels of recoil

So recoil isn't less, it is just differntly shaped

[jagged jay]

I personally wouldn't use a suppressor but eh

[fringe whale]

I mean, you could go more anti recoil but the suppressor I see as the big win since it lets you remove all muzzle flash

main benifit that I can see from the change

It is Flash Hider, Supressor, or Tactical. Unless you weirdly want long barrel for more assist counts as kill

Flash hider also has basically the same recoil as a suppressor. Actually just averaged higher in my test pass somehow which is odd since its stats say it should have less recoild

81 Horizontal, 246 Vertical, 327 total

[tulip warren]

Which gun?

[fringe whale]

M110

[tulip warren]

Ah

[tulip warren]

I think its more pronounced in mk20 and mk14

[fringe whale]

I guess if you want to go by total linear distance the recoil is down, since it is less in one direction if you draw a diaginal line it is slightly shorter.

Like 275 vs 260 in pixel length as a diaginal

so ~6% reduction in recoil if you use that metric

[jagged jay]

how do you even test that

are you fucking counting pixels

[fringe whale]

You record shots in the shooting range at a known aimpoint, Then you screen shot and count pixels from the orignal aimpoint to where the aimpoint is after recoil

boom, objective measurement of the recoil

[jagged jay]

so the measurement becomes useless as soon as you use anything but 1080p?

[fringe whale]

I mean I am in 4k here, but the actual pixel value is not super important, only the scale relative to the other tests

[jagged jay]

damn 4k how tf do you even count that I can barely see the pixels at 1440

[fringe whale]

You go into paint and look at the cordinates it gives you

[jagged jay]

ou

[fringe whale]

no reason to ever actually count yourself

[upper heart]

With the new changes, DMRs feel even worse up close and still lack the long range viability against snipers due to mediocre velocity and high recoil. They are not viable up clsoe due to SMGs. They are not viable medium range when the SCAR and AKs can fire faster and deal more damage faster with less recoil. They are not viable long range because snipers still outclass them in range, accuracy, and damage. I suggest substantially increasing the fire rate of all of them while decreasing the recoil.

In my opinion, DMRs should work much better than assault rifles at longer ranges while still being viable (but not ideal) up close. There's no reason why they should have this much recoil and fire so slowly when there's always a gun that will out DPS them

[jagged jay]

I completely disagree but okay man

[upper heart]

In my personal opinion, you should really benefit more from choosing a semi automatic rifle with a smaller mag size than the assault rifles

[fringe whale]

I mostly just hate the ammo changes. Other changes feel mostly neutral. Being able to not use long barrel is nice though

Magazine sizes straight up should be 20 on most DMRs though

With 10 round shorts

[upper heart]

^^^^^^

[tulip rapids]

Mediocre velocity???

[upper heart]

All of the guns have much slower velocity than I personally like. You have to lead targets at 20 feet. I think all of the snipers and DMRs should have velocity increases since targets have time to move out of the way before a bullet lands at 500+ meters

But that's a gripe with all of the guns. The DMRs are a lot better than most of them

[fringe whale]

I mean most guns in the game have weirdly nerfed velocity, esspecially with how cracked fast everyone runs

But DMR and Snipers don't need more velocity

they are the only guns that are largly in the correct bracket

ARs and LMGs need the biggest velocity buffs

[upper heart]

I'll agree with that. ARs in general play weird because of the bad velocity and very sudden damage dropoff

[tulip warren]

Honestly I can't say for sure with m110, mk20 and svd since I dont have too many kills in them. I have 1900 in the mk14 and I can tell you immediately it's better close up.

[fringe whale]

M110 got strictly nerfed at close range this patch with the rate of fire reduction.

[upper heart]

^^

[fringe whale]

But it went from bad to bad so I guess it is w/e

[tulip warren]

To be fair if you're using m110 at close range then something went wrong.

[upper heart]

The MK14 is the only one viable at close range. The SVD is close, but still solidly below every other gun since it's a three shot kill at 440 RPM

[tulip warren]

Either you got jumped or bad positioning.

[fringe whale]

I mean, the DMRs as a weapon are designed to be able to push with not be giga camping weapons. They shouldn't dominate CQC but they unlike snipers are not meant to be worthless when caught in it

[upper heart]

Frankly, you should be able to use them at whatever range you want since you're so gimped by the low capacity

[tulip warren]

4 shot now I think since its 41 damage

[upper heart]

Exactly. They're semi automatic rifles firing a large caliber. The whole point is to be versatile at most ranges

[tulip warren]

I will say out of all the changes increasing horizontal recoil wasn't the best decision

They're meant to be precise weapons, so increasing hor recoil seems counterintuitive

[upper heart]

DMRs are my favorite category of gun in most games and it feel like Battlebit did them dirty by making them snipers but worse

[fringe whale]

I can only really speak for the M110, since I really hated the other DMRs and hardly used them before patch but overall this patch for the M110 feels very neutral rather than a buff

Well except for ammo, that always feels bad

[upper heart]

Like they'd be way better if you could fire them at a reasonable speed. 350 RPM is so slow that I easily outrun it and die because I'm firing off-rhythm and only getting like 200 rpm

Why not make them true semi autos since they capacity, reserve ammo, handling speed, movement speed, etc nerf them so much?

[tulip warren]

It needs input qeueing

Otherwise you have to fire at the perfect time to have it be more seamless

[upper heart]

Here's hoping, but it took tripleA studios forever to figure it out, so my hopes aren't too high for its implementation here

It's kinda tricky to get it right without it feeling clunky and delayed

[fringe whale]

I mean, the only way to really do it consistantly is to macro it. Which is explicitly cheating

[tulip warren]

Movement speed debuff I dont mind because it incentivizes you to stick to cover and not run and gun

Mildly annoying to get somewhere on foot though when you're slower

[upper heart]

The maps are massive, so movement speed is a huge factor. Support is miserable to play because you move slower than the mobesity scooters at Walmart. DMRs are just as bad and they make it difficult to be useful and keep up with your team.

I do like that they encourage you to stick to cover and pay tactically

But man I hate having to run 500M and it taking four business days

[fringe whale]

Support, the heavy armor class where the ideal setup involves taking off all of your armor so you can actually move at a sane pace (still slow)

[upper heart]

Or how putting a drum mag on the L86 makes you move twice as slow as carrying a gun that weighs twice as much but comes with a box mag

The MK20 is a big offender here. 0.93 movement speed default, down to 0.79 (-0.14) if you add 4 rounds and up to 1.03 (+0.1) if you remove 4 rounds.

It feels like increased mag capacity is punished way too harshly

[tulip warren]

Agree

Generally for all the guns

Vector maybe not

[zealous oasis]

that was my exact build. was so satisfying to run lol

[mortal ember]

FWIW, the "running speed" stat on a gun with a changed mag seems to be downright incorrect

test it out in the shooting range: mk20 with extended has 0.81 run speed, and times almost identically to the mk20 with no mag adjustment at 0.95 run speed

and the m200 with the base 0.81 run speed times significantly slower than the extended mk20

there's something going on with how that stat relates to actual run speed, and how it's modified with parts

mk20 normal (0.95 speed): 12.87 seconds; mk20 extended (0.81 speed): 13.21 seconds, m200 (0.81 speed): 15.44 seconds

on a fixed distance, using the same loadout otherwise

and in case you're wondering the sv-98 (0.94 speed) timed at 12.76, so it's not something to do with gun class

[fringe whale]

They like halfed the impact of attachments on movespeed after people complained

So the stats in the gun menu are a bit of a lie

[ornate sleet]

heres my feedback as an M110 main: thank you for the rework all the rifles feel fantastic now

[hard delta]

Only tried the m110 out so far but I feel it's a positive change, Specially the velocity increase as I find that leading shots and firing at longer ranged targets now just feels more natural

[spice lintel]

M110 chads keep WINNING

[tulip rapids]

Fr only w

[spice lintel]

life is m110

[tulip rapids]

Fr

Especially on the limited sniper lobbies u can just bully

[slim topaz]

Tried out the new MK14, seemed solid.

[lapis nest]

Mk14 feels like the AUG mix with the scar h right now. Slow RPM with good recoil and hits hard

[scarlet topaz]

still need 40x on DMR's

[unique apex]

after 2 days trying m110 recoil feel pretty the same. Still terrible chasing far away target

the veloc buff is good but then slower fire rate and lower mag feel terrible

[slim topaz]

I think someone in #battlebit-eng said that the M110 specifically just didn't get the recoil changes. Oops! Potentially spreading misinformation~

[zealous oasis]

spread the misinformation! lets usurp the devs! ADD WINGSUITS

[covert rune]

Sniper rebalance incoming??🙏

[unique apex]

before i have to deal with vertical now it the same stuff just with horizontal

[tulip rapids]

I cant lie as fun as the m110 has been and is, it sucks to die to 2 consecutive shots

[tulip rapids]

Also 40 scopes aren’t useful on dmrs the recoil is already bad and u have to hit more than one shot unlike sniper

[scarlet topaz]

recoil isn't that high at all

even with 40x

[slim topaz]

idk man, the optimal TTK if you don't miss with M110 is .200 (with no armor), which is the same as the FAMAS, slower than only the FAL, MP7, Groza, EVO, and probably some other stuff I'm missing. It actually goes to shit with hitting ANY armor at .400 which is abysmal.

It might feel bad but it's not objectively great. Honestly if we were used to it it wouldn't feel bad at all imo. Even a little amount of ping delay can make dying to an AK15 'feel' instant if they hit all shots.

[unique apex]

the power of m110 is when the 1st shot hit they wont bleed or show heavy damage so they wont run away make it easier to hit 2nd shot

[scarlet topaz]

whel there is still no 40x, but the recoil won't be that high

[slim topaz]

Remember, all else being equal a gun with lower RoF needs some statistical leg up on something with similar TTK because the higher RoF gun is more forgiving on TTK drop when you miss a shot! Having comparable TTKs to other weapons is appropriate and good for DMRs, if anything they should be slightly faster.

Looking at these stats, the DMRs are still all on the worse half of TTK compared to the ARs and SMGs. Only the SVD reaches almost AR levels.
I'm not gonna say they're still underpowered, but meh. They feel good to me RN.

[unique apex]

to me they still feel terrible when fight again a decent sniper

sniper still own my ass

at medium range like 200m not even far range

[slim topaz]

Oh yeah, nothing will beat that.
It takes too long to re-center and adjust for follow-up shots vs snipers in my experience. You need to land a few good shots, all they need to do is be brave and land one.

Which is why the M110 should 1shot to the face vs no helmet targets c:

Since snipers don't wear helmets.......

[gleaming socket]

One tapping is a pretty big no go I think, because you can just abuse that close range.

• The very far range that comes with DMR damage fall-off being quite high

[zealous oasis]

give it a bell curve

[slim topaz]

Smart

[zealous oasis]

have it ramp up in damage past 75m or so

then come back down where it normally would

[slim topaz]

idk, I think it's a strange line to draw because unless you get really lucky or are extremely skilled you'll always do better at close range with an SMG or AR.

[zealous oasis]

a blend between sniper and normal damage curves, which is exactly what a DMR is, no?

[slim topaz]

There's too much of a stigma against one-shotting, tbh I don't think it's a valid one.

[gleaming socket]

It's a semi auto DMR, thats going to be very OP

[slim topaz]

Just because, again, the luck or skill needed, and the fact that kill time is practically instantaneous for SMGs at close range anyway. The difference between 0ms and 180ms is really not that much.

[gleaming socket]

With close range sights non the less

[slim topaz]

If the DMR misses once it's joever anyways.

And the better aim-in time for the other weapons

I just don't think it's a logical line to draw in the sand, it's more of an emotional one. It wouldn't actually be OP.

Do we count on EXTREMELY skilled gamers running the M110 in cqc? I bet you they won't do any better with it than with their standard SMG rush setup if the suggested change was implemented.

Deaths will still feel as instantaneous, and if they miss one shot you have a lot more leeway to fight back than if they missed one shot with their SMG

[gleaming socket]

DMRs aren't meant for CQC?

Or are they?

[slim topaz]

That's part of my point, because even with the suggested change it wouldn't be better than other CQC setups,

[gleaming socket]

Why would you use a sniper if you can basically 1 tap most players that are facing in your direction?

Cuz helmets only protect the areas they are on, and the face is MASSIVE

[raven parrot]

A long barrel M110 when shots are perfectly timed is on par with an M4 in CQC, against one target. Gets a lot worse against multiple

[slim topaz]

Oh shit wait, really? I thought it protected the whole head hitbox LMFAO
Hmm. I still don't think it'd be that much of a problem tbh

[gleaming socket]

Pardon me for sending a picture in here, but look at this

[raven parrot]

an exo helmet protects the face, which makes them a lot more powerful than other helmets

[gleaming socket]

Anything below your eyebrows isn't protected against that 1 tapping

[slim topaz]

smh

[gleaming socket]

Even then the back of your head in has quite the gap near your neck area + lower part of the back of your head

Which you can see in the picture as well

[raven parrot]

Are you sure you can actually shoot through it?

[gleaming socket]

Yeah, the helmet is strictly the hitbox, it doesn't extend anywhere

If it isn't covered by the helmet, then it isn't

[slim topaz]

Imagine a video game with hitboxes that actually match the model. Rare.

[gleaming socket]

smh tbh

[raven parrot]

There are a fair few that do that

I imagine all non-exo helmets share the same generic hitbox though

So small decorative bits can’t affect it

[gleaming socket]

Normal and Heavy helmets don't really change much and are basically the same

with different durability and stats

1 tap fits the sniper, cuz its long range, slow and stuff, but DMR is more of a "spammy" sniper for mid range than anything

[royal otter]

Yea absolutely no on 1hko dmr.. I can't even imagine how quickly I'll get reported into a suspension

That would be OP as all fuck

[unique apex]

1 hko is bad for dmr consider how fast it can kill unaware target

[gleaming socket]

Not only unaware, but MULTIPLE

[unique apex]

yeah multiple unaware kills

[slim topaz]

Thing is, good players will do that on a nice flank anyways. It's just like people arguing the P90 is still op when it's not actually

All it does is allow them to take their advantage a little harder, and in THIS case only if they aim perfectly.

[unique apex]

well the thing is m110 can do at much longer range where p90 have to be up close

[gleaming socket]

Just cuz P90 is OP doesn't mean we need OP DMR

[slim topaz]

Fair point.

[unique apex]

But back to the point m110 still feels terrible to use for me

[gleaming socket]

Describe your issue

[unique apex]

Way up there

[gleaming socket]

Do you run what class and what armor?

[tulip rapids]

40x higher recoil than red dot lmao or 10x trix recoil

[unique apex]

Assualt with Ranger armor

[gleaming socket]

How do you run out of ammo with 2 ammo kits AND ranger armor?

[unique apex]

Still have ammo issue cause at around 300m you have to spam fire and hope 1 hit again flying medic

And slower fire rate makes that worse

[tulip rapids]

nah its good because whilst they are reacting to your first shot you can line up you second shot- making them bleed is good as you can reposition for ez w

[unique apex]

You already can do that before with bleed so it not new.

And bleed only happen when you headshot

[tulip rapids]

and supply drops 💀

[gleaming socket]

You should consider optimizing your shots, if you are running out of ammo with all resources you would need to kill the whole server

[unique apex]

Unless I camp like sniper then no ammo issue but then why use dmrs when you can use sniper

[gleaming socket]

Like, to me it sounds like a heavy case of spamming and trying to hit everything you might have seen

[unique apex]

Well I still gonna use m110 anyway cause I like that gun

[gleaming socket]

Well use whatever you like, but please watch how you use your ammo

[unique apex]

It still terrible gun same as before for me. And it got even worse when dealing with flankers than to fire rate nerf

[slim topaz]

Yeah uh, the TTK ain't good chiefs. Follow up sharts are harder to hit than you might think with the M110

shots*

[scenic nacelle]

any tips on how to use DMRs after the update??

I tried them, but after a couple games I went back to sniper, I still felt that in most situations I would rather have a sniper or a rifle in my hands instead of a DMR.

How are you guys using them?? (Those that say the update was great)

[gleaming socket]

Mid range is good, distancing yourself from the frontline tiny bit and using 4x

[frosty nacelle]

Use with slip. As a longer range AR 😂

[unique apex]

Stay hidden and pick off target focus on fighting your teammates

Don't be a hero and run gun

[slim topaz]

I mean that's mostly how it is. They're slightly stronger as all-rounders so the opportunity cost of using them isn't as high, but I'd generallyyyy say they're still outclassed by snipers (in the mid-long range) and ARs (in the mid-close range).

[unique apex]

yeah just use it to have fun cause they wont be meta for awhile

[slim topaz]

The most success I've had with it was MK14 at Sandy small server domination. People walk into the street or lurking in windows. Couldn't help but feel that half of those or more I could've done just as well with the AK15. Then people stopped lurking in windows and started rushing. It was interesting, but short lived.

Maybe the anti-window-lurking was stronger tbh

Need more data, I should play more.

[unique apex]

the good thing of MK14 in my eyes is that it have slower fire rate than fal or scar so you will waste less ammo when fire

even though TTK is much weaker

[slim topaz]

Yeah, it's like the psychological effect of using a bolt action sniper compared to a semi-auto sniper in other FPS LMFAO, it's sometimes objectively worse but the psychological advantage of calmly placing following shots instead of spamming helps people who can't control themselves.

[unique apex]

true

[slim topaz]

My finger isn't fast enough to lift off the fire button when using the AK15 to achieve single shot, but I can with SCAR

[tulip rapids]

U dont need to stay hidden but if you arent you need to play tiny angles like pickaxe or on a roof

[quaint canopy]

Depends with the SVD or EBR as long as you can aim and they are very good just to run and gun with. People that are aggressive snipers would love DMRs now. I can out gun most classes now. The other DMRs I just play a bit more passively. I look for flanks and angles on the front lines and stay away from the team fights works well.

[ornate sleet]

I like to be about 20 feet behind where the grenade spam is landing picking off people + still pushing to objectives

[raven parrot]

hmm. an input buffer would make DMRs actually viable for me. Right now I can only go to about half the listed fire rate due to me not being that good at clicking quickly

[royal otter]

chances are you are clicking too fast, instead of too slow

if you click slower than the fire rate, you won't have missed inputs, if you click faster, you will

[raven parrot]

I don't think I can click as fast as the fire rate

[royal otter]

then you likely won't notice a difference with or w/o input buffer

if inputs are missing, it means you've clicked too fast

[raven parrot]

I can click faster but not consistently, on average it ends up lower but sometimes is higher

so it would help

[jagged jay]

you only need like 7 cps for dmrs thats very easy

[raven parrot]

Varies person to person.

[slim topaz]

Casually tested, I go from 6.5 to 7.5 cps, so

An input buffer would be nice specifically in the case of clicking too fast, actually

I think that's what input buffers are for, yeah?

So the input doesn't get eaten and just sits in the queue waiting to be input

Most fighting games, renowned for requiring precision, have like a 3 frame input buffer (at 60 fps) at least nowadays.
It's always a nice feature to have.

[jagged jay]

pistols would benefit alot from input queing too

[tulip rapids]

Mean while deagle sigmas

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[dusty patio]

the big bore pistols are just hard to use

[tulip rapids]

Nah deagle go crazy

[short haven]

Recoil varies a lot from bullet to bullet. Don't forget to check for an average. In the last version i've had shots from the M110 with twice the recoil from the lower ones. I did not test if every gun has this much difference between lowest and highest

[fringe whale]

I took from a 5 shot average, since that is what I had recorded from last version. Sadly can't go larger there

[short haven]

Oh okay then

[zealous oasis]

ngl im gonna need larger than that

[fringe whale]

/shrug not possible to do now

[tulip warren]

It'd be even better if u didnt need long barrel to kill in 3 shots to the body

In saying that though you should really only be going for headshots with it

[winter dew]

well... the MK14 now sits at 0.93 vert recoil w/ attachments

the buffs are interesting... didn't really feel necessary

[scarlet topaz]

will you really control ur recoil when 40x attached? this kind of scope isn't mean to play at range up to 1000m. It feels good only at range further than 1000m and at that range u most of the time will look at where your bullet will land and just aim to ur opponent

[jagged jay]

uhhhhhh

it was complet dogshit before

they were defintely needed

wrong reply

[jagged jay]

meant to reply to this

[dusty patio]

I'm terrible with big bore pistols

I need lots of ammo to absolutely pummel people with lead

The ammo is very limited for rifles let alone pistols

[tulip rapids]

U dont . . .

But you should still run long barrel for + velocity +accuracy lower horizontal recoil and 80 headshot which is assist counts as kill

[tulip warren]

40 x 3 is 120, normal armour is +25 so the VAST majority of players are gonna have 125 health. How is that not 4 body shots to kill?

Long barrel adds +2 which gives 126... so just enough

[tulip rapids]

M110 51 dmg?

[long bronze]

M110 has 51 dmg

40 is EBR

[tulip rapids]

ys but im saying y u didnt know m110 only needed 2 to kill

[nimble plinth]

huh? you only need 3 shots if you hit armor

anyone not wearing armor is easy 2 hit

[spice lintel]

dmrs feel GOOD

[ocean mango]

@spice lintel has earned the Tier I Member role!

[raven parrot]

Possible 4 shot on exo

[royal otter]

You haven't even gotten to the best one yet

[dusty patio]

which is?

[spice lintel]

but they’re all unlocked …?

[tulip rapids]

M110 supremacy

[royal otter]

17 kills on SVD, wait till you get a few more attachments on it.

[arctic river]

M110 is nice, the bullet lead is taking a lot to adjust to. The mk20 is now very nice and feels like a battle rifle over a DMR, very brawly

[jagged jay]

m110 feels to slow on me so I run nt whatever barrel on it

the one that boosts velocity the most

[brazen spire]

lb gives the best velocity boost on dmrs

[arctic river]

Lb still seems to be The Way for m110, purely for velocity and accuracy

Extra damage is nice but doesn't reach a break ppint

[tulip rapids]

80 headshot is assist counts as kill so if your at range once u headshot a guy u can ignore him

[heavy quarry]

80 damages on HS, count as a kill when assist by a Friend, it's virtually a OHK 🙂

[arctic river]

Yea I was waiting for someone to say that

You do get more assists

[tulip rapids]

but the accuracy + velocity + horizontal reduction is enough to run it without the headshot breakpoint

[arctic river]

But that's low down my priority list

[tulip rapids]

they count as kills

[arctic river]

Yea but you're not actually killing someone, so they can run off and heal etc

Anywho

[tulip rapids]

when they die u get a +1 kill on the gun/scoreboard

which is fantastic

[arctic river]

It's big, but not 3>2-shot kill big

[tulip rapids]

especially since velocity equals all snipers but m200

i mean personally gunfighter + lb is peak

[jagged jay]

does assist count as kill still apply if you do 80 damage, then they heal to full health and someone else kills them after that

[slim topaz]

Been playing with the SVD since I just unlocked it, is fun.

[vague rock]

Long barrel does extend your breakpoint range on the dmrs a little

[tulip rapids]

yes

so whenever they die u get the kill

the only downside is not getting a range bonus or headshot bonus it is only 200

[mystic sierra]

Dude this explains so much. Sometimes i would hurt someone and they get away and then 10 minutes later i would get an assist!

I was constantly confused like "ok, uhh... who did i injure and when did i injure them? Did they seriously not heal?"

[tulip rapids]

yes 80+ damage

[ornate sleet]

yep. thats how you used to farm the m110 to long barrel lol

tap tap move on

[tulip warren]

I'm talking about mk14 dude

[nimble plinth]

the guy you answered to was talking about the m110 dude

[scarlet topaz]

looking for 40x scope for DMRs

[quaint canopy]

tbf would like to see some different scopes for them.

[ornate sleet]

would be nice to see options with good crosshairs at different zoom levels

[jagged jay]

idk if its possible but a variable zoom scope from like 1x - 2x would be really cool

[spice lintel]

luv me m110

[spice lintel]

miss me mags though

[heavy quarry]

Ranger Armor resolve the problem

And you Can play assault with small ammobox

[fringe whale]

Fix is a very strong word :(, 84 rounds of ammo sucks. Assault or bust.

[unique apex]

The problem is I already use assault and Ranger with m110 before the nerf. The nerf just make me feel bad to use.

[ornate sleet]

you might need to swap off short mag

losing the +10% movespeed sucks but its 50% more total ammo

i know pre-ranger armor (prestiged, 31 levels to go lol) as assault im running dry really fast when i need ammo most

[unique apex]

Already use normal mag before it change. Losing 2 mags for no reason is just suck.

I mean I already run with maximum ammo before so this just suck

[ornate sleet]

Extend those mags for even more pew pew

[vague rock]

can confirm, m110 is now a little overtuned

[foggy geyser]

Marksman rifles feel too good now

honestly they are better than snipers in alot of cases

if you want to keep the accuracy, you have to nerf the damage hard, or you can give the marksman their shit accuracy again, having both leads to what we have now

[vague rock]

MK20 feels okay, right balance of ttk and accuracy, but the M110 feels like its a little too effective

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance of trying the other 2, as I made the mistake of prestiging beforehand

[tulip warren]

DMRs are fine atm, except for maybe svd or mk14

[raven parrot]

As in they’re too strong or too weak because it could easily be either

[long bronze]

M110 is a little overtuned

If you're spotted in the open field facing against m110 there's almost no chance to live

[snow crescent]

M110 is one of those "well I guess" moments, kinda like snipers

love the sudden influx of DMRs I've been seeing since buff tho

[long bronze]

Especially M110

[unique apex]

i mean m110 is the only 1 that feel like true dmrs

[twin rivet]

You know, I didn't like the dmr changes when they were announced. Thought they'd be crazy strong, but I think they're in a good place. The m110 specifically

I honestly never use any other one

I don't see a purpose to the others since I can control the recoil of the m110 perfectly, and it fires quick enough to 2 tap peeps

[snow crescent]

that's a subjective feel thing, I personally prefer the Mk20

[scarlet topaz]

imagine if DMRs had 40x scope

[dusty patio]

What if, what if we make DMRs one shot headshot upclose

make it actually worth the time playing

the farther range can be reserved for snipers

[blazing coral]

Fuck no

Dmrs arent close range weapons and they absolutely shouldn’t be strong er at close range than they are far away

[ornate sleet]

it does feel extremely crispy, relatively easy to get those headshot+bodyshot 2hks

i still dont have the other 2 bc prestige but ive gotten my shit rocked a couple times by EBRs and seen some sick SVD play so i for sure dont want to rule them out til ive gotten my hands on them

[fringe whale]

How is the M110 suddently overtunned when it is nearly identical to what it was last patch but with less ammo

[unique apex]

idk man ppl is weird. it only get abit veloc buff but exchange for less mag and somehow that is overtunned

[brazen spire]

"omg it does a 2hit and has less recoil"
literally everyone with a brain used this thing with the lb which had about the same recoil, same damage, worse velocity but more ammo
people are weird man

[jagged jay]

yeah no the m110 is fine where it is people are just coping

[brazen spire]

literally, not like we have much worse offenders in kill/per mag ratio, movement speed, dps nuh uh xD

[ornate sleet]

its just "people actually use it now" instead of just being us freaks who farmed 300 kills at 49 damage a shot

[brazen spire]

i'm no freak, i'm just a dedicated enjoyer of this game

[ornate sleet]

DMR Enjoyers vs the world

[unique apex]

Who you calling freak? I am just a casual player who happen to like using m110 too much.

[tulip warren]

https://tenor.com/view/بروشی-gif-20190160

[spice lintel]

Me vs YOU !

[ornate sleet]

[slim topaz]

lmfao people saying DMRs are powerful, lol LOOOOOL
Use the SCAR-H, or play in Tensa or that construction site one

Snipers only need to shoot you once,
DMRs need to have snappy follow-up shots and hit AT LEAST twice to kill people. If you're past maybe 50 meters and 1v1ing a Sniper head-on you'll probably lose.

[spice lintel]

just flat out wrong lol

[slim topaz]

Heh, that's where you're wrong, kiddo

It's true I've capped many a sniper within 100 meters. Follow-ups are pretty easy within that I feel.

[twin rivet]

Sounds like a skill issue, old man

[slim topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/lit-old-lady-dab-old-but-still-swag-gif-13302838

[jagged jay]

idk man I've gotten 500m kills with dmrs against snipers

[ornate sleet]

I think my record was 800m or so

Distance bonus shots are always funny

[placid sparrow]

ngl, giving DMRs AP might go a long way with helping them deal with targets. armor makes 3 shots turn into 4 or even 5 in some instances all within the same engagement zone. The raw damage of the weapons is ok rn (i say as i love the M110 LB build).

[inland sequoia]

Buff the dmrs across the board, rn they are all outdone by the scar

[brazen spire]

they literally just got buffed

[inland sequoia]

theyre still kind of crap

[brazen spire]

if you're trying to use them like a sniper ye

[spice lintel]

It’s not the guns that are crap — All the DMRs perform fine for what they are.

[severe gull]

M110 post buff needs its velocity lowered. 2-shot kills are far too easy to achieve right now. I have almost 1000 kills on it far quicker than other guns. Prestige 1, Rank 198

[raven parrot]

Then you’re too close to the targets :)

[severe gull]

scar dmg drop off makes it a bad dmr imo

[tulip warren]

70ish accuracy too

Harder to pop head then you might think

[raven parrot]

Accuracy doesn’t affect the first shot

[brazen spire]

where do you have that from? from the same testing that let you to believe acc does nothing XD

[raven parrot]

Have tried it and seen other people try it, at least could never see any deviation

Testing for it in full auto was difficult so it’s unsurprising it was hard to get anything from that

I had no idea if it did something or not, I just believed it didn’t matter for anything - it still seems like it matters very little now

[brazen spire]

dmr users would like to have a word with you, sometimes you can be point on and still not hit shit, at 250-400m where these guns should be good at

[gleaming socket]

DMRs have 100% ADS accuracy, first shot or not.
Diagnosis: Skill issue or hit reg issue

[brazen spire]

they don't have 100% accuracy what are you on about man

[gleaming socket]

Hip fire accuracy and ADS accuracy are 2 different things that result in the accuracy stat we see in game.

DMRs have 100% ADS accuracy

[brazen spire]

i don't think you know what the accuracy stat means right, the accuracy describes how much your bullet deviates from the point it was fired from, in hip fire from the barrel, in ads from the center of the camera

[gleaming socket]

And i'm telling you DMRs have 100% ADS accuracy

[brazen spire]

a dmr will deviate over longer distances in ads

[gleaming socket]

Like snipers

[brazen spire]

there is no such thing as "ads accuracy" it's literally the same thing wether ads or not

[gleaming socket]

There is hipfire accuracy and ADS accuracy

[brazen spire]

i can only tell you what is colloquially known and what i found while playing if there is some magic "your gun shoots straight" and "your gun no longer shoots straight" then idk all i can say dmrs are not 100% accurate

[gleaming socket]

DMRs have the same ADS accuracy as snipers.

Only difference being hipfire accuracy being different

[brazen spire]

that makes zero freaking sense, why just why, and yeah apperantly hitreg is shit

well what merging a milsim into an arcade game does to gun mechanics wtf

[raven parrot]

It doesn’t make sense but it’s something a ton of games do

[brazen spire]

unfortunatly so, having the bullet come out of the barrel would also somewhat fix the issue of not seeing your target at night when shooting at them because of tracers that look like fire works

also this makes attachments that lower your acc but buff the gun on other stats just not really that "bad" to use, as well as why tf do we have one stat that for 2 things that do basically the same thing yet still are not really connected gameplay wise
and i don't even wanna begin on "control" and "weight" those 2 things are just absolutly cryptic

[raven parrot]

This is like the only thing the devs have ever said about weight
And it wasn’t even a thing back then, I don’t think

[brazen spire]

i'm going crazy

[blazing coral]

Resignated darksman mifle

[brazen spire]

fr

[fringe whale]

Scopre redicles do not always line up with the aim point when ADS, they wiggle and take a while to settle after shooting. Get more accuracy out of a crossair overlay as bullets always come from the center of camera when ADS

[brazen spire]

that is such a bandaid fix, why the fuck should i need to do that to use my gun properly, i'd much rather have the bullet come out the barrel all the time better visibility, more realistic, more skillbased, the more i learn about the game the crazier i'm getting, oh yeah crazy
i was crazy once...

[fringe whale]

I mean I agree, but we use silly arcade rules when ADS

Bullets from the forhead at camera center, gun is purly cosmetic

but hipfire the gun matters which is really odd

[blazing coral]

Yeah you’re definitely just shooting too fast after aiming or moving.

[brazen spire]

oh yeah headglitching... that could be practically eliminated
more engaging cqc... think about all the possibillities

[blazing coral]

Possibilities from what? What are you talking about?

[brazen spire]

but rly, should i be punished for shooting my gun fast enough so i can kill someone? that seems like the most fucked way of "balance" for dmrs

[brazen spire]

@blazing coral

[blazing coral]

The bullet does come out of the gun barrel all the time. That’s why hip fire is so accurate in this game.

If you’re having shots go where you aren’t aiming with your DMR it’s because you aren’t waiting for the reticle to settle before shooting. The reticle moves off target when you move, and it takes a moment to get to the right spot when you ads.

[brazen spire]

it doesn't, or the scope to gun system is beyond funked

[brazen spire]

i wasn't moving btw

[blazing coral]

It absolutely does. If it’s not coming out of the barrel directly then it is absolutely going where the gun is pointed.

[blazing coral]

Then you’re missing.

[brazen spire]

ye but why, it often wasn't because i didn't have the reticle on target

[blazing coral]

You are either not properly zeroed or corrected for the drop, off target with the reticle, or shooting too quickly after ads/moving. Or maybe the target is moving. But I am 100% certain it is not because the gun is randomly causing you to miss.

[slim topaz]

It's greatly disappointing when any gunplay mechanic is hidden or unclear. We've been having debates and discussions and misinformation spread about this shit forever.

[brazen spire]

this, fuken this, the systems are so unclear that debates about them are about as usefull as a sniper in cqc

[blazing coral]

What is unclear about this????

[slim topaz]

What's unclear is whether what you're saying is true or not. I haven't seen that shit actually be explained except by hearsay, and I've heard conflicting information. Your '100% certain' doesn't mean jack shit to me.

Some people report inherent inaccuracy with the scope, some people don't.

[fringe whale]

This is strictly not true, when you ADS it comes from your forhead. This is why you can head glitch like mad

[slim topaz]

"Visual recoil," vs actual recoil, is there Cone of Fire in ADS, what about Cone of Fire in hipfire, where does the bullet actually come from at what points, what is the 're-centering speed' of various guns, how is the settling from movement calculated, does it actually affect where the bullet comes from, is the reticle/sight accurate, is the gun fully simulated so not even the sight is accurate?

[blazing coral]

The point is the bullets go where the gun is pointing, not where the camera is. Try shooting an automatic weapon immediately after mantling and you will see what I mean.

[slim topaz]

Questions that do not have official or clear answers.

[fringe whale]

This is also not true, and a HUGE reason why hit punch is/was so obnoxious

Hit punch moved your camera detaching your shootpoint and aimpoint

[brazen spire]

also, "shoot slowly with a dmr" are you kidding me? a 2-3shot long range gun has to be shot quickly.

[slim topaz]

When you ADS the bullets don't come from your forehead: I've had bullets hitting walls when I'm trying to "head glitch."

[blazing coral]

This is absolutely true lol, please go check for yourself.

[fringe whale]

I literally have... #1133360306278645810 message

Does this look like the bullet fired where my gun was pointing

[slim topaz]

Nice evidence bro. Thanks

[mystic sierra]

I see it all the time as support using a 4x and a bipod. I regularly end up in situations where my scope is on the dude's head but my bullets are hitting the floor in front of me

[fringe whale]

no it fired DIRECTLY to camera center

[blazing coral]

Could just be travel time but that’s not even what I’m talking about. If you are sprinting for instance, your gun is not pointed straight ahead. If you start firing immediately as you come out of sprint the bullets don’t go straight where you’re looking, they go where the gun is pointed as you bring it up.

[brazen spire]

yeah thought that too, when not ads you shoot with the gun, when ads tho then you have a magic - hilariously chest level - forehead that spits bullets

[fringe whale]

Yes, becasue hipfire goes where the gun points

ADS though goes to where the camera points

[blazing coral]

That’s literally what I have been saying from the beginning

[mystic sierra]

Ads does too

[fringe whale]

ADS is only governed by the camera

[slim topaz]

From your guys's conflicting evidence it's clear a hybrid system is in place. I've had bullets hitting the wall when "head glitching" but you've had bullets fire to the center despite where the gun is facing.

Clearly, when you're 'hit punched' or being flinched, the 'flinch' is purely visual, but bullets still don't actually just come out at the center of your screen.

[mystic sierra]

Play support and go prone and use a 4x. Play enough and you will see kt

Like often im on a roof and aiming down and my scope is on a guy but my shots hit the floor im prone on. Its not that rare of an occurance

[brazen spire]

but you're not ads in that instance, try out the scorp in night, ads and not and tell me that shit "comes from the barrel"... i wished dude

[slim topaz]

Like y'all have conflicting evidence, and so do I, so maybe it's not the evidence that conflicts but the conclusions we're drawing from it.
This is why having opaque gun mechanics sucks so much cock.

[fringe whale]

Like this will not hit the wall in front of you. Height over bore DOES NOT EXIST #bb-screenshots message

[slim topaz]

But, it has hit the wall in front of me before, when my sight was clearly aiming above the wall.

[blazing coral]

Once again I will remind everyone that the point is the bullets go where the barrel is pointed. I don’t know or if they come out of it or not.

[mystic sierra]

It literally does because different scopes change bipod placement angles

And bipod comes out of the gun model

[fringe whale]

But they don't though... I have multiple videos of this not happening. It is entierly camera bound while ADS. It is only barrel dependent during hipfire

[mystic sierra]

Ads moves your gun model

[blazing coral]

Do you have any evidence that does not include aim punch?

[brazen spire]

of course the bullet shoots away from you, not into urself when ADS they come from your sight(camera) dammit

[blazing coral]

What are you saying

[slim topaz]

Like, while being FULLY ADS'd and aiming for a while, I've had instances where the bullets are clearly not firing over and they are hitting the wall in front of me @fringe whale
Aim punch I have no explanation for though, that must be a special case.

[fringe whale]

I'd have to do more recording but i could create some. But just go to shootingrange, use an extenral reticle and spray

aim with the external and ignore your scope

you will hit

Aim punch is just when it is MOST pronounced

[raven parrot]

I think where the gun is pointing isn’t necessarily parallel to the view between your eyes and the optic

[brazen spire]

Idc fuck the "gun" mechanics

[mystic sierra]

I had times where shooting while going into ads and the gun shoots at the angle it was at as it moves towards being centered.

[slim topaz]

Oh, so you're talking SPECIFICALLY about the center of your screen, using an overlay? And that the IN GAME SIGHT is just not center of screen, and is sometimes higher or lower? Needs more investigation @fringe whale

[fringe whale]

yes, the in game sight is not always actually on the aimpoint

[stray carbon]

Had no idea. Interesting

[slim topaz]

So we need to start using game overlays, and the 'control' stat being 'scope sway' means absolutely nothing and is purely visual?

[brazen spire]

Yes, because it wasn't shouldered, you have your zoomed in, clean pic, you're ads everything else is "hipfire"

[zealous oasis]

Grumble Grumble grr grr argue!

[brazen spire]

That also fucks hard femboy medic butt

[slim topaz]

This is such a shitty mechanic. I'd vastly prefer it if the in game sight actually matched the aimpoint and scope sway meant something.

[blazing coral]

No lol scope sway is not just visual. Speaking from lots and lots of experience.

[slim topaz]

I mean I WOULD believe that. Need more evidence.

Your 'experience' means nothing. Pics or gtfo basically

Evidence.

[mystic sierra]

Bruh, pick up a sniper rifle and use a 40x

[blazing coral]

Play the game and see for yourself, it’s incredibly obvious if you just use a magnified optic even a little bit.

[raven parrot]

bruh!

[slim topaz]

I have played the game, and MY experience is that bullets simply do not go directly where the sight is aiming.
Maybe the long scope optics make your WHOLE SCREEN sway instead of just the gun sight

[brazen spire]

4x scope sway does jack shit about your aimpoint, only moves the reticle

[blazing coral]

That is complete bullshit.

[slim topaz]

Are you saying he's wrong or that's a stupid game design decision, because if the latter then I agree.

[mystic sierra]

Have any of you guys used anything other than medium scopes?

[slim topaz]

Yeah, used long scopes on snipers for only a tiny bit, hated the glint.
I mean the scopes changing mechanics explains the gap in our experience very neatly.

[blazing coral]

What he’s saying is not true.

[slim topaz]

I'm saying what you're saying is not true, brother. My "experience" has "shown" me that bullets do not go where medium and below sights are pointing.

[brazen spire]

i'm sorry but we are arguing about medium scopes here dude

[blazing coral]

Keep missing your shots I guess then lol and have fun wondering why I never have that problem.

[brazen spire]

long range ones move ur screen, medium ones don't, but also don't change where the bullet goes, that's the problem

[slim topaz]

Yer just being a stubborn ass at this point. If all arguing consists of is

then there's no point and we can all stfu

[unkempt meadow]

theres this cool thing called making a video to actually show the problem

[fringe whale]

Okay, 2 frame sequence showing the shot fire to center NOT to the Acog reticle

notice the Acog is under the target, but the bullet fires to the center where the hitmarker is

no hit punch involved

[blazing coral]

I tried to explain to you what was going on and you got pissed and said I was wrong. It doesn’t really matter to me if you believe me or not, I was trying to help you out.

[mystic sierra]

Genuinely never had this issue except for when my shots hit the ground in front of me despite my scope showing im aiming over it.

seems to imply shots come out where your gun is and where it is pointing. Other than that, my scopes have pretty much always sent shots exactly where the scope says they will go

[blazing coral]

It was literally you saying
“why is this happening???”
Then when I tried to explain why it might be happening I got hit with the
“DO NOT try to explain anything or help me, you are wrong.”

[fringe whale]

Is this adequate evidence that aimpoint and scope reticle are not the same thing?

and that ceter of the screen = aimpoint

[slim topaz]

Frankly, that's a ridiculous interpretation of events.

[mystic sierra]

This doesnt explain me shooting the floor when aiming down from a ledge

[blazing coral]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to show with those pictures

[fringe whale]

That the bullet is going to the center of the screen, not the Acog reticle

[mystic sierra]

Both center of screen and my scope are above the floor

But the gun shoots the floor

[unkempt meadow]

is that not just te recoil in those images

[fringe whale]

there is 1 frame between the two images to show where the shot went vs where the gun was "aimed"

Recoil happens after firing not before

The shot should have been off target by the reticle

[blazing coral]

Are you shooting without recoil, weapon sway, and bullet travel time? If so then yeah absolutely that’s proof. Otherwise no absolutely not.

[slim topaz]

Hmm, could you do a frame-by-frame video? I was suspicious about the nearest tracer being under the ACOG in the 2nd pic

[fringe whale]

I mean I am shooting an M4 in full auto and then going back frame by frame in video

travel time is not relvent here

[mystic sierra]

Wait, you zeroed right?

[fringe whale]

This is zero'd to 0m

[slim topaz]

So is that 2nd screenshot frame 1 of the nearest tracer (the one below the ACOG) being on screen or

[fringe whale]

ther eis no adjustment

This is exactly the frame after the bullet fired

[mystic sierra]

Well of course there is drop at 50m

[fringe whale]

Drop is irrelevent...

the bullet also fired ABOVE the reticle not below it... not sure where you are getting drop from

[slim topaz]

But wouldn't that 2nd image be showing, via the tracer of the bullet below the ACOG, that it's rather going off where the sight is pointing?

We're not looking at the same tracers bruh

Why not do a screenshot of the first shot before during and one frame after firing to clear things up?

[raven parrot]

With an AR the bullet should drop like 2.5cm at that distance

[slim topaz]

Anyone know a gun with absurdly large medium scope sway to make the testing easier?

[blazing coral]

Also don’t automatic weapons suffer from an accuracy penalty when firing quickly?

[raven parrot]

LMGs like the M249 can get virtually 0 on the control stat iirc
Which should give you more sway?

[fringe whale]

I mean the first shot the scope is generally more or less on target

it is the follow up shots where the scope visually desyncs with the aimpoint

this is the "visual" recoil people complain about on medium scopes

the actual recoil is much lower than it looks because the aimpoint is screen center but the scope moves more

[blazing coral]

I don’t see what this has to do with the discussion

[slim topaz]

That'd make me hypothesize that the 'sway' follows the aimpoint, and that it secretly still controls the aimpoint along with actual recoil, and there's a layer of extra visual recoil on top.

[blazing coral]

The whole point was someone was saying their first shot with a DMR wasn’t landing where the reticle was

This is not the same situation

I’m pretty sure automatic weapons have a bit of a bloom effect

[fringe whale]

First shot can be slight off due to movement and such, but typically it is quite close, followup shots on the DMR can be off as the scope has not resettled back from the recoil yet and is not aligned with the aim point

and as far as I am aware there is zero bloom in this game from automatic fire

just reoil

I'd have to do more samples to confirm this, but I have not noticed anything like that

[slim topaz]

That'd be called "Cone of Fire," and I've heard a lot of conflicting things about it too. Mostly I've heard that it DOESN'T EXIST though

Because "Oki hasn't implemented it yet."

Not sure what that means.

[blazing coral]

I don’t use automatic weapons at range too much so I’m not sure. I do know that your first shot with a DMR at least will absolutely hit where you are aiming if you properly account for distance, sway, and wait for the ads animation to finish.

[raven parrot]

It seems that there is some

Hard to notice though

[slim topaz]

Yeah but we don't fucking know if CoF/'bloom' exists.
God this all seems like a headache to test for.

[raven parrot]

Saw a guy demonstrate it fairly well with a vector

[slim topaz]

I used to think so too, but people keep telling me it doesn't exist, and if there's VISUAL RECOIL DIFFERENT FROM ACTUAL RECOIL that could EXPLAIN the apparent "cone of fire"

CoD having visual and actual recoil be different happened. Mechanics of guns in games are fucking weird.

[raven parrot]

Simply need to adopt tabg gunplay

oki it would make the game so much more fun I promise

[slim topaz]

To me the clearest and simplest picture so far seems like this:

Cone of Fire doesn't exist.
Gun swaying the reticle still accurately reflects where the first shot comes out of a gun.
After firing the visual recoil is much greater/different than actual recoil, resulting in bullets that seem to come 'out' of the gun closer to the original aimpoint.

To me the unsolved problem is I'm not sure what explains sometimes the bullets hitting the wall when "head glitching," we've had conflicting experience/reports on that.

Like, it could be this IN ADDITION to CoF

And the mechanics for ADS vs hipfire are unclear, but I think THAT difference puts DOUBT on the "bullets come out of the center of your screen" idea.

[blazing coral]

also just fyi starfield deserves goty because it pauses and unpauses automatically when you tab out and tab back into the game so I'm able to seamlessly transition from playing to arguing with you guys and back with zero effort.

[mystic sierra]

Visual recoil being greater than actual recoil matches my lmg experience. At closer ranges i need to aim "high" during full auto

[brazen spire]

FYI
acc seems to be weapon class dependent, but every gun has its own hipfire acc apperantly
weight, controll and sway can go straight to the dumpster
now the only other question is: is the vel only the muzzle vel for a few m and does it get reduced over distance or does it stay the same?

[raven parrot]

Hit markers being in the centre of your screen does annoy me for this, think it would be a bit easier to work this out if they were actually in the place they hit

[brazen spire]

yes please

[raven parrot]

I’ve never seen any indication that they do slow down, you’d be able to see some bullets fall out of the sky

[brazen spire]

hehehe... game mechanics making me crazy...

[raven parrot]

oki should really just give us the deobfuscated source code fr

[brazen spire]

fr fr jk, pls we need answers

[mystic sierra]

Unless there is an upper limit that they just despawn at?

[raven parrot]

There certainly is, don’t know if it’s distance or time based though - might even only be after leaving the map

[slim topaz]

THIS

[blazing coral]

Oki should make me a dev and let me play with the numbers for fun

[scarlet topaz]

can't find 40x scope on DMRs

[blazing coral]

Good

[jagged jay]

y tf would you need that

[brazen spire]

he's of or on his meds ig

[twin rivet]

40x scopes for dmrs would be a pretty big buff

[mystic sierra]

Pros: i can see a single person on the other side of the planet
Cons: every one the planet can see me

[twin rivet]

Real talk, just use the binoculars in conjunction with the higher mag scopes. I use it, spot some people, build a wall to limit exposure of myself, then get to sniping.

I like to snipe from further away though

[zealous oasis]

this is literally the reason im about to hop onto starfield

except replace "argue" with "be sick"

[zealous oasis]

every other planet*

[jagged jay]

*nerf

[stray carbon]

YES. Itd be so much better. I always wondered why i was getting beamed by full auto fire at medium range. Now it makes sense.

[stray carbon]

From what i can see it stays the same, otherwise you’d see bullets slowing down as they come at you from a distance

[brazen spire]

ye eh ik, that was just some "autistic" screaching while going crazy... because of the "logical" mechanics

[stray carbon]

If bullets were slowing down a 800m/s bullet wouldn’t land at 800m in exactly one second

[brazen spire]

Ik

[stray carbon]

Nah youre good. The mechanics got my brain a bit overstimulated so i was rambling quite a bit in general tism gang

[brazen spire]

just general stupidity, idiocy and uhm... crazyness
on my part

[stray carbon]

Brain blast

[brazen spire]

🤯

[blazing coral]

THERE'S A FUCKING INPUT BUFFER

[slim topaz]

Big news for DMRs

tfw I click faster than 350 rpm

[spice lintel]

What’s up doc ?

[blazing coral]

What's cookin

[spice lintel]

What’s up with the input buffer

Am I just getting mixed up with action queuing

[unique apex]

Check update note it not out yet though

[spice lintel]

#dev-wip message

I

🫨

Swag… overload 🤩🥳

[blazing coral]

Same thing

[slim topaz]

That's another way to say it, yeah.

[spice lintel]

BOB HOORAY

[blazing coral]

Either way I’m so fucking pleased

[spice lintel]

JAEDEIK YIPPIE

[slim topaz]

Right?

[blazing coral]

[spice lintel]

https://tenor.com/view/bomb-rush-cyberfunk-brc-team-reptile-cyberfunk-gif-27466391

That’s what it’s all about yo

[blazing coral]

Dmr users stay winning oh my god I’m so happy

[spice lintel]

Gonna celebrate fr

Need to run some comparisons tonite

[unique apex]

Dmrs winning but rip L86

[spice lintel]

Coz now those followup shots are gonna be so clean, Mr Clean is gonna get replaced by ME

[severe gull]

Sometimes I feel like there is some deviation from the ADS center point when I fire a shot but it genuinely just feels like it happens when my aim is poopooing so I dunno about that.

[blazing coral]

If you try to fire too quickly after aiming down sights or moving the reticle might not be on target yet

[ornate sleet]

my god... its beautiful

[unkempt meadow]

to go along side the 750rpm mp443 lol

[ornate sleet]

already keep that thing on me

[vague rock]

hallelujah

[distant coyote]

thank the lord they added input buffer

[blazing coral]

PRAISE BE

[snow crescent]

He’s done it

The legends are true

[covert rune]

I got 500 kills with the mk20 pre buff

I enjoyed the cbt

[brazen spire]

m110 without 2tap mhmmmm

[covert rune]

Done that as well

It was worse before the barrels

[jagged jay]

INPUT QUEING

RAAAAAAAAAAAA

pistols will be useable

svd will actually be able to use it's fire rate

[zealous oasis]

me with my currently frozen fingies

"pistols? usable? what you mean?"

though im still upset about his hardon for the deagle

rah rah im getting off topic

input queing should be fantastic for DMRs

but now im even more scared of M110s

[jagged jay]

some dmrs will probably need firerate nerf to make the input buffering not op

before you yell at me "noooo dmrs will be trash again"

it will essentially feel the same since we couldnt even utilize the rpm we had before

[distant coyote]

^

[distant coyote]

id like to add that its not just gonna feel the same, itll feel better and more responsive

[jagged jay]

yeah

same firerate

but you dont need to time clicks

thats what i meant to say

[slim topaz]

This, and potential max firerate nerf would lower the skill ceiling which tbh I'm in favor of because it means the DMRs won't be balanced around the best users who are able to click (or secretly use spam click macros) all fast-like.

[unkempt meadow]

honestly, it wont change much balance wise. mk20 and m110 are going to feel so much better though

old m110 fire rate woulda been annoying for most people to deal with close range but it already got nerfed so

[jagged jay]

got nerfed?

wha

when

[unkempt meadow]

it was 350 its 300 now

[jagged jay]

oh

i was thinking more for the svd

[unkempt meadow]

.170 ttk to .200 which is on par with the scar i think

[jagged jay]

doesnt it do like 650 rpm

that would make it fastest ttk iirc

[unkempt meadow]

svd is like 445

or you mean scar yeah but its a 3 hit not 2 like the m110

highest ttk is the scorp at .150

then l86 lb i think at like .154 or something dumb

but yes highest ttk in DMR class not including headshots armor or range

[tulip rapids]

hold up, peopple clicking faster doesnt increase the skill ceiling its the recoil that comes with it

[slim topaz]

No, the uh, people allowed to use their faster clicking to their benefit increases the skill ceiling, to be precise.
And more to your actual point: in closer quarters recoil control matters less, thus the clicking skill becomes more influential.

[tulip rapids]

except 99% of people can click 325cpm

[slim topaz]

Uh, no. 6.5 cps is pretty normal, even low for a SKILLED GAMER, and that's 360 cpm, which directly converts to 360 rpm. Already in #off-topic they were talking about this relatively common occurence.

Excuse me, 6.5 x 60 = 390, so even better.

[tulip rapids]

well mk14 is auto and mk20/m110 are under that so it would only affect the svd except the m110 is just better anyway cuz 2 tap

[unkempt meadow]

either im confused on whats being argued here or you seem to think input queuing doesnt just prevent you from clipping when you are faster then the max fire rate and that it lets you actually click faster?

[slim topaz]

idk if he is, but I do understand all mechanics involved, trust

[hard delta]

Solution, Google click per min test and do it

[unkempt meadow]

i mean even if the max fire rate was 1000 no one is getting that legit. at least not accurately in the slightest

i mean its nice to know what your capable of but most people can clip the m110 without trying so i dont know what you mean by solution

[royal otter]

• Added input buffer for single fire weapons. (No more dead clicks.)

yall welcome

[ornate sleet]

it already was, people would get dropped by hipfire before they knew what hit them in a fight that "should" favor their smg

or id click too fast and lose

lol

[slim topaz]

They got lucky (or skilled) and landed their shots. M110 TTK is 343 ms and above, that's like higher than any SMG.
CQC fights absolutely and unequivocally favor the SMGs, and basically every other gun besides snipers to DMRs.
If you got 2 tapped at close range by a DMR, that's bad luck but any other gun would've killed you easier in the same situation, so put your feelings aside and look at this objectively.

Royal you ofc

[twin rivet]

DMRs will lose out in close range a lot more. The recoil alone will cause you to wiff shots, you can't ads too quick with 'em, and they aren't exactly hipfire machines

[blazing coral]

As it should be.

[unkempt meadow]

this is slightly incorrect. the m110 was like i said .170 ttk with lb before the patch. clipping made it inconsistent to get the max fire rate though and if you missed a shot or hit armor you ttk quickly became garbage

[slim topaz]

Ope, I was looking at a different spreadsheet, my bad. Looking at E's spreadsheet it's .200 on bodyshots to no armor. A little higher than .170

[raven parrot]

On armoured targets it’s about 340

[ornate sleet]

it's .200 now, after losing 50 RPM

.400 if you need a third shot

[tulip rapids]

I like those numbers but i dont like the firerate ingame

[cobalt sphinx]

Still sucks

[zealous oasis]

what does, exactly?

[blazing coral]

Straw

[unkempt meadow]

you know who else sucks

[blazing coral]

Austin

[azure estuary]

they all have way too fucking high firerate

[jagged jay]

no

[azure estuary]

yes

they give 2 shot to a fullauto gun

you quite literally cannot counter that

when the dmr user doesnt have skill issue

[jagged jay]

mk14 ebr is a 3 shot to body no armor

pretty sure any assault rifle out ttks any dmr rn

[blazing coral]

The FAL and Scar both do the same damage (or more) as the mk14 and both fire faster.

[azure estuary]

they also play as dmr's

they have high acc as well

the game just categorized them wrong

[jagged jay]

the only reason mk14 isnt outclassed by scar and fal is range

accuarcy doesnt mean shit when ur "dmr" starts doing 29 damage at 150m

[blazing coral]

If you think those play like DMRs you don’t know what a DMR is.

[tulip warren]

Lol I wonder if you ran into me a couple times

[jagged jay]

any ar can counter that

ak15

fal

scar

[azure estuary]

not at distance

[jagged jay]

no fucking shit thats what dmrs are meant to do

they sacrifice cqc for long ish range capability

[azure estuary]

at distance you dont even get reaction chance becuase of the insane firereate

which makes dmrs broken

[jagged jay]

bro what the highest dmr firerate is 440rpm and you cant even hit that firerate cause we dont have input buffer yet

[snow crescent]

I have definitely escaped DMRs since the buff.

[azure estuary]

well yah

its escaple from peopel with skill issue

[snow crescent]

Nope, also some good top scoreboard players

[azure estuary]

but with someone how has even the slightest bit of compitency, it makes dmrs broken

[snow crescent]

Yea DMRs are good in the right hands. No, they’re not uncounterable

[jagged jay]

dmrs are still completly shit on by any of the heavier hitting ars <150m

they are def counterable

[snow crescent]

The benefit of still taking two shots is the good ole SPAZZ AROUND LIKE A MANIAC

it’s literally helped me so many times

Or

You know

Get to cover and chase him

[jagged jay]

try like

going in cover

when u get shot

ik its a crazy concept

[azure estuary]

thats kinda my point...

when the dmr user isnt shit, the firerate is so high that you cant react

getting under cover is one of the things that means react...

[jagged jay]

idk man i have time

imo the only dmr thats slightly overtuned is the m110

the rest are fine

cause they 3 shot

3 shot is plenty of time to get to cover

[lapis nest]

Mk20 with LB

[jagged jay]

still 3 shot

[azure estuary]

dmrs need more dmg less firerate

[lapis nest]

Pretty sure it's 2 shot

[azure estuary]

imagine the deagle but as a primary

[unique apex]

After the patch I still have 0 issues dodging dmrs at long range

[jagged jay]

no it does like 49.something damage im fairly sure

[azure estuary]

you have 0 issues dodging people with skill issue

[jagged jay]

thats just a sniper

[lapis nest]

That's why I said long barrel

[jagged jay]

it does 47 without lb

doesnt lb ad 2.15 damage

[lapis nest]

Pulling out the spreadsheet

[snow crescent]

Reda I’ve seen you a lot and you tend to only have bad takes, do you need some choccy milk bro?

[unique apex]

Maybe it your skill issue that you can't dodge at long range

[azure estuary]

you know what

that actually sounds kinda good rn

[unique apex]

It really easy dodging anything that not a 1 shot kill

[jagged jay]

i think the m110 should still 2 shot but maybe slightly nerf its velocity to like 950 or something

[snow crescent]

Well then go get that choccy milk

[azure estuary]

most of the time with dmrs in my personal experience, is the 2nd shot is already flying in the air before the first shot hits me, so i get double tapped before i even have a chance to 180, let alone run

[unique apex]

The only problem and a biggest strong point of m110 is ppl getting hit and though they only losing 30 hp at best so they don't run

[azure estuary]

tbh i think every recon item needs a velocity buff