Designated Marksman Rifles (General) - Feedback

[tropic skiff]

my point is nerf it to do 49.9 damage WITH long barrel

To make it in line with all other dmrs

Base damage 47 would make single shot damage 49.35 /w long

[royal otter]

Then you may as well delete it..that's pretty much the only thing the M110 has going for it.

I don't know what you're smoking calling it better than snipers when clearly that's just factually incorrect. Bolt actions having the ability to 1hko with headshots; DMRs don't. Even the M110 with LB doesn't 1hko headshot.

The fact the gun is underpowered despite having over 50 damage in its current state is enough of a counter argument to your point; you are factually incorrect claiming it's OP or better than snipers.

[tropic skiff]

It has vastly lower skill required to double tap someone any part than one hs and than three tapping by any other dmr

[royal otter]

Cool, so why is it one of the least used guns in the game, despite being so overpowered?

Everyone should be running M110, it's so easy and OP!

[tropic skiff]

Cuz 300 kills make or break

Even m200 doesn’t require 50 kills to cheese with medium scope

[royal otter]

idc either way I'll win with any gun, but nerfing it to under 50 damage basically just removes the only reason to use this gun in the first place. At that point only the Mk14 and SVD have any reason to exist.

[tropic skiff]

It’s like saying only mp5 and mp7 should exist in smg

[royal otter]

Neither MK20 nor M110 would have any discerneable niche and would both just be direct downgrades to both the Mk14 or the SVD. That's just poor balancing.

[tulip rapids]

Fr m110 is my most killed gun but i still prefer fal as i can just tap as an svd and have double the firerate of the m110

[royal otter]

No, it's not, because all the SMGs have a ton of differences in how they handle or play.

The Mk20 and M110 would be literally carbon copies of SVD except worse stats in every way if you made the change you suggested. The MK20 as it exists is already the most pointless gun in the game; it's weaker in every single way than the M110. Less fire rate, more recoil, less damage, less velocity. It lacks any niche or reason to exist as is.

Bringing the M110 down damage wise also removes it's niche, now making it just a weaker SVD. So why would you ever use either the MK20 or M110 EVER when the SVD is superior in literally every single stat? The only other choice would be MK14 since that has full auto which sets it apart.

[tropic skiff]

If anything to make dmr “widely available “ m110’s anomaly needs to be addressed

[tulip rapids]

To make smgs useable we should make p90 unplayable

Is basically what i read

[jagged jay]

all dmrs need buff not just m11o lmao

[tropic skiff]

P90 isn’t even smg

Vector just got its hammer

[royal otter]

The SMGs all play differently.

MP7 has great TTK but relatively poor handling and very poor mag effeciency.

Ump is a bit weak but has the easiest handling in the entire game and is the longest reaching SMG

PP2000 has the best mag effeciency of all SMGs, but weaker TTK

PP19 is one of the best all around guns in the game and very low HRecoil. It also has the fastest reload and highest uptime of all guns.

Vector is CQB demon

MP5 is another great all around SMG, but it suffers from weak mag effeciency which keeps it in check.

Trying to argue that only MP7 and MP5 are only viable SMGs is just complete bogus; SMGs almost all have their own niche carved out in their own category and all have a place.

Removing the M110's 50 damage breakpoint brings the DMRs down to literally 2 choices.

[tropic skiff]

What about sniper rifles, L96 or M200, why do others exist

[royal otter]

Yea, snipers are another gun category that are in dire need of rebalancing, I've asked that same question

Because L96 and M200 are literally the only choices you have; anything else is a complete waste of dev time and thus the category needs rebalancing to give it variety.

[tropic skiff]

Maybe we need a hyper muzzle velocity dmr with moderate damage to “stand out”, ya know, maybe even comparable to M200 muzzle

https://youtu.be/lOebGm_jMLY?si=4AGOnlXpV2ajAHDM

[jagged jay]

i would argue that the snipers just be rebalanced to fit certain niches

like rem700 and ssg69 have really good bolt and ads speed

[royal otter]

Yea, that's what I meant.

[jagged jay]

ah ok glad we agree on that

[mystic sierra]

im a little annoyed how when discussing balancing the guns he just casually makes a bunch of assumptions because thats how every game generally does it such as with shotguns or that handling is only ads speed. im not that frustrated by it because saying "in most games" would probably get old fast but i still think just further reinforced "inside the box" thinking when it comes to balancing.

good quote here "because a bullet cant seemingly do more damage the longer it travels" meanwhile in battlebit

i mentioned it in other feedback threads but i personally think adding inertia when aiming with snipers and maybe other weapons too could be an interesting way to potentially balance guns.

another way that nerfs snipers is making pretty much every weapon have a good chance to either 1-shot or incapacitate you. im really interest in a game doing some sort of chance based kill damage model, something like most weapons 1-shotting you 90% of the time with body shots, 50% of the time with limbs, etc.

otherwise, he is alright and mostly correct with his assessments of weapons

[tropic skiff]

People don’t like rng is competitive game even if it’s pseudo competitive

[mystic sierra]

people think they dont like rng because they are too busy experiencing shittily implemented systems with extremely wide standard deviations

[tropic skiff]

Fix hitreg

[mystic sierra]

il use tabletop rpgs as an example, one of the more common rule modifications people make is to the dice.

1d20 is 5% chance for any value but 4d6-4 is 11% chance for rolling a 10
1d20 is 35% chance for a value between 8 and 13 but 4d6-4 is about a 50% chance

generally, it feels better for "average" outcomes to be more common. it makes the whole system feel a lot more predictable

[royal otter]

Holy fuck that would be the single most frustrating and annoying thing ever

like I'd rather have aim punch.. and I fucking HATE aim punch

[mystic sierra]

you hate everything

[royal otter]

no, I like a lot of things, I just hate really fucking stupid mechanics

I literally like about 95% of what battlebit is RN

[mystic sierra]

again, anyone who has been in these feedback threads knows otherwise

[tropic skiff]

We need a praise thread

[mystic sierra]

the guns genuinely feel nice and satisfying to shoot to me. some of my friends dont like how jerky the recoil is but i actually like it

[royal otter]

Gee, I fucking wonder why? Probably because there's a ridiculous number of ridiculously stupid suggestions in these threads.

[mystic sierra]

well then maybe try and discuss them instead of doing like you always do which is "i dont like it. your idea is stupid"

[royal otter]

Of course I'm going to dislike most of them when I like battlebit a lot as is.. most of the suggestions are for changing the game in a negative way and I like it as is.

[royal otter]

I actually do, a ton. It just happens that a ton of suggestions are so far beyond the realm of stupid they don't even warrant a discussion.

For decent ones I discuss them normally and even agree with some suggestions.

[mystic sierra]

do you like how the game was at launch or how it is currently more? battlebit "as is" is a thing that has changed greatly over time

[royal otter]

I liked it right before launch, before aim punch was added in. That was still some of the best gameplay battlebit ever had. During the aim punch phase it was at it's worst, now that that's been adjusted it's improved a ton. The most recent patch was a great patch and had a ton of great changes. I still prefer the gunplay from before aim punch; but I also like it as is now. This upcoming patch is good except for the lean nerf doesn't look like it was implemented very well, so I'm hoping to see that further adjusted in the future. I'm also very happy with how progression has been adjusted; imo that's now perfect and oki can focus on improving prestige for longer term rewards. Overall battlebit is one of my favorite FPS ever, I really enjoy it and absolutely love the freedom of movement and gunplay

[tropic skiff]

Did aim punch apply to vehicles before gun aimpunch is a thing?

The “single rpg throw off my crosshair” thing

[royal otter]

Can't remember I'm not a vehicle main, I tried them out but not enough to remember specifics

[tall sequoia]

pretty sure, since it's more of a physics issue

the most immersive part of vehicle aim punch

is being thrown back and forth by autocannon fire

[tropic skiff]

Sometimes rpg doesn’t do a thing regarding any “punch” (no feedback) and makes me miscalculate the hp

[tall sequoia]

until it mercifully launches you off the bridge on wakistan 🙂

[tropic skiff]

Sometimes I can’t aim at all due to btr tickling my face

[mystic sierra]

anyways, i also liked battlebit at launch more mainly because there were better chances of finding a fun and decently lasting fight than there are now. the game was also slower too, amusingly because of claymore spam, which helps allow fights to have time to form instead of one group crashing over another before they could react.

i cant say i have noticed aimpunch effect me much outside of dmrs back when it was goofy strong

[tropic skiff]

I believe player count contributes a lot, the trend surfers have vastly moved on and only sweats are left

[royal otter]

as time goes on, avg skill level increases. Players who don't improve naturally start to struggle.

[mystic sierra]

i honestly dont know how much i should attribute to player numbers. the average skill has definitely improved which means the players left right now are generally the better ones who are more likely playing "optimally", at least for whatever they gauge as "optimal"

right now that means defending isnt really done

[tropic skiff]

Or they just leave which further boosts avg level

[mystic sierra]

its not just about players being better but thaat players start playing the way the game encourages them to play

[tropic skiff]

It’s like f2p models but worst, whales feast their pride on the poor

At least poor can get lucky occasionally

[royal otter]

yes it can sometimes be feedback loop. Often times the reason casuals leave is because they are growth adverse and would rather just go to a new game where everyone sucks than even consider improving their gameplay

[mystic sierra]

sure, the people left right now probably have better aim and situational awareness and such but they also know that defending doesnt reward them and so they rarely do that

[tulip warren]

Having them all at base 900 velocity and going form there would be better imo

[tropic skiff]

aug is better than mk20

If DMRs meant to not have perfect accuracy, that can also be a factor to make each distinct

Some more accurate than others…

[mystic sierra]

basically, how i see it is battlebit has a very poorly conceived incentive structure. for example, ranges are super compressed (despite the maps being pretty big) which means close range weapons generally dominate over most longer range weapons

[tropic skiff]

It’s not an issue if the dmg falloff is configured accordingly

[mystic sierra]

im willing to bet 90% of encounters are at under 50m

[tropic skiff]

Too bad the game only records the longest kill

[mystic sierra]

anyways, the main reasons why i brought up %chance based kills as a way to balance guns is it means you can have high firerate guns still have a low chance but dominate at close range, you can have medium firerate weapons designed as all-rounders have average chance be viable aat both close raange and long range, you can have big mag weapons fill the role of suppression by forcing enemies to stay down or risk instant death, and you can have long range weapons still be able to be threatened by return fire because of that chance

basically, when every gun is near equally deadly other factors become more significant

instead of like right now where the dmr you can set up to 2 shot is arguably the best choice right behind the automatic one

[placid plinth]

rng has no place in pvp games

there's a reason why a lot of TF2 servers mod out random crits and random bullet spread; because the game is more fun when you can focus on fighting enemy gamers rather than tard wrangling your gun

[snow crescent]

Random Crits are funny af when you’re not on the receiving end

But even then sometimes it’s just not satisfying to have won a fight because you happened to get lucky, so I don’t think Chance based kills should be in BBR

[quaint canopy]

This is generally something we need to see buffs for across the board. I would just decrease recoil on every single one of them and some DMR's need a slight damage increase. Right now DMR's are in a terrible place almost a waste of time to have someone model them and implement them into the game.

[tulip rapids]

Yes the accuracy stat is good, as it adds more tactical choices to loadout selection but on dmrs not really as they meant to be accurate

[mystic sierra]

Poker exists, card games exist, tabletop games featuring dice exist. the statement "rng has no place in a pvp" game is just extremely narrow minded. Most games do it bad and then people go and make the conclusion "rng bad".

fact is, rng tends to shift the skill expression of the game from pure mechanical mastery towards decision making.

besides, i already addressed the argument as to why people tend to dislike rng and it is mostly to do with the probability distributions

1% chance to win/lose a fight you shouldnt have feels like shit.

but to use my example from earlier, if you maoe a game where getting shot kills you something like 90% of the time then if you are in danger of getting shot at then you probably have already lost the fight

[midnight lagoon]

It depends on the RNG and the game. Too strong of an absolute to say no place, especially if it's something you can balance around

[mystic sierra]

Yea, the issue with tf2 is how out of nowhere crits are combined with how disproportionately impactful they are, particularly with certain weapons. A single crocket can wipe entire teams

[midnight lagoon]

I was always against random crits because sweats can abuse random crits so much more than noobs

[blazing coral]

RNG isn’t intrinsically bad, it just depends on what the RNG is for.

[frosty nacelle]

Yeah I prefer guns with rng recoil than set recoil patterns 😂 but I got realism bias

But rng for rush bomb sites when attacker/defender get swapped is a no no

[mystic sierra]

As i said, im convinced most of the rng allergy that gamers have comes from experiencing really poorly designed rng systems or rng systems outright designed to massively shake up the game and make things unpredictable (tf2 rng was designed this way and as a way to help break stalemates and to allow lesser skilled players punch up, regardless of if this actually happens or not)

[frosty nacelle]

Yeah Tf2 crit system do be pretty interesting. But yeah comp normally dials rng to a minimum.

[blazing coral]

Why were you guys discussing RNG in the first place? What was the suggestion?

[mystic sierra]

Just me spitballing hypothetical balance ideas, one i dont think is ideal for bbr but i still think is interesting

I was thinking about if guns had something like a %chance to kill per hit and weapons could be balanced around adjusting that probability

[blazing coral]

Ahh gotcha

Yeah I don’t think that would be good for battlebit lol but it could be interesting in a different game

[frosty nacelle]

Low rpm weapons become gacha lol

[blazing coral]

But also I think it would even be better than that to have the player models have internal structures that take more or less damage depending on trajectory.

Again, not in battlebit, just in some arbitrary game

[frosty nacelle]

Not even arma has that haha

[snow crescent]

I mean, to fastball my idea, allow DMRs and SRs to overkill, where when you deal X damage over 0, the guy you killed gets sent straight to respawn, doesn’t even get a chance to revive. This would create a special interaction that only these guns have and puts them in a more designated niche of “thinning the crowd”

[frosty nacelle]

Sniper elite ball shots tho 😂

[snow crescent]

(It does)

[blazing coral]

Boycott arma immediately

[frosty nacelle]

Not internal organs lol

And definitely not trajectory.

[snow crescent]

If you use KAT it KINDA does

[mystic sierra]

But not necessarily at longer ranges. The idea was something along the lines of allowing snipers to have something like 90% chance (so still a dice roll, but a really strong one)

[blazing coral]

I feel like this would make DMRs and sniper rifles more frustrating to play against without making them feel any better to use.

[snow crescent]

It’d at least give them a purpose

Or something special

[frosty nacelle]

Give dmrs mad ragdoll on hs kill.

Fling bodies so far they can't be rezzed. 😂

[snow crescent]

+5000 momentum on kill

[frosty nacelle]

Send em straight to jesus

[mystic sierra]

Add internal hitboxes for the heart, lungs, and other organs and combine it with my idea 🤔

i just want a game that actually encourages shooting center mass 😔

[snow crescent]

Kinda arma I guess

[mystic sierra]

Boom, heartshot.

[snow crescent]

Ace medical somewhat does that, it at least takes vital organs into account

[blazing coral]

The brain though

[frosty nacelle]

Yeah but the ttk in bbr is so short 😂

Any complex hit box is pointless.

[mystic sierra]

You only need half a brain 😏

[frosty nacelle]

Get brained or die from explosives and you still can be ressed.

[snow crescent]

No I need to know the exact damage state of my index finger, and if it’s broken I can’t fire my gun anymore

[blazing coral]

Clearly… /s

[mystic sierra]

Just use your other arm, or your toes!

[frosty nacelle]

I swear even back in wolfet if you get sniper HS or gibbed by explosives you couldn't be ressed.

[snow crescent]

Whoa there pardner, you can’t just say that the player models in FPS games are left handed

[mystic sierra]

Well duh dude, they actually have two right arms

[snow crescent]

That’s fair then

Continue

[mystic sierra]

Yea, this is the real reason a lot of games just mirrored the model and texture of a gun on both sides 😏

[blazing coral]

Make DMRs one shot always regardless of distance or armor or where the target is hit

[snow crescent]

I support this

[midnight lagoon]

I think eventually they need ot nerf sniper's reverse fallout damage, it just encourages them to be further away. I hope DMR never gets it

[blazing coral]

Why would it be bad to encourage snipers to play farther away lol that’s the whole point

[midnight lagoon]

Because 1 shot body shot goes against the entire soul of sniping i.e. headshot

They can cap it at 99% hp but sniper shouldn't ever be able to 1 shot body shot imo. Don't think 2 shot bodyshot for DMR is healthy either because DMR are meant to be far enough to out range most weapons

[blazing coral]

The entire soul of sniping isn’t headshots, it’s shooting from far away. That’s literally what a sniper rifle is designed for. That’s the whole point.

[midnight lagoon]

Reread what I said

I said the SOUL of sniping

It's why people are getting pissed SMG's can beam people at 100 meters

because SMG = CQC weapon

[blazing coral]

Yeah, and if you were to reread what I said, I disagree. The soul of sniping is not headshots, it’s shooting from far away.

[midnight lagoon]

but in reality SMG's can kill from further range than a lot of guns

[blazing coral]

By “a lot of guns” I assume you mean a pistol

[midnight lagoon]

Well I entirely disagree. There's a reason every single cod montage of snipers are head shots quick scopes

[blazing coral]

Because it’s a display of skill that looks cool? Cod snipers don’t require headshots anyway.

[midnight lagoon]

Because headshots are a display of skill and a lot harder to do which is why snipers are the only weapon that can bypass helmets entirely as a mechanic

[blazing coral]

They don’t even bypass helmets as a mechanic lol what do you mean

[midnight lagoon]

my friend. M200 can 1 shot through exo helmet

[blazing coral]

1 sniper rifle being able to shoot through the exo helmet with a specific attachment does not make sniper rifles “bypass helmets as a mechanic”

[midnight lagoon]

That's literally what it means. Why do you think everyone uses the M200?

It's literally the most popular sniper in the game in usage

I can probably load in right now, join a Basra match, and see that most people are rocking the M200. I can probably do that, stand in the ledge with the exo helmet, and get 1 shot as well

[blazing coral]

So what’s your point lol

[cyan palm]

As a dmr user buff the velocity and also idk if its just me but the firerate feels really inconsistent, like sometimes it shoots at an ok rate and other times it doesn't even fire

[tulip rapids]

I feel like while the velocity needs a buff for new players it doesnt change the potential capabilities in a dmr experts hands so wont make them any better theoretically

[tall sequoia]

that's the input buffer thing that people have been asking for

[midnight lagoon]

Yeah, it's simply lowering the skill floor for DMR's which I think is its issue mostly

[tall sequoia]

rn it's impossible to actually hit the advertised firerate

[midnight lagoon]

Yeah, input buffers not being a thing is dumb as hell

[tulip rapids]

While that may be needed, at the top percentile of skill a sniper is just flat out better thus they need a buff

[midnight lagoon]

I don't agree or disagree with that sentiment

it just depends on what niche you want to DMR to have

[tulip rapids]

[midnight lagoon]

Like MG's suffer from this right now - there's no real niche for them

they're just "SMG/AR's but worse with more ammo"

[tall sequoia]

eh idk about that

can't underestimate mag size in a 254 player game

esp when their ttk stats generally keep up with ARs

except for the ultimax

(speaking about LMGs and LSWs together)

[midnight lagoon]

Issue is being able to utilize that huge mag size. You'll typically die the moment you're revealed because there's no really good way to set-up and ambush people which is the intent of MG's

[tulip rapids]

Ye the m249 isnt terribly competitive until u get a silencer for that reason

[midnight lagoon]

I've spoken about it in the feedback thread - if MG's aren't going to get suppressive fire they need pre-built structures to let them enact their role

[tall sequoia]

i don't think so

[midnight lagoon]

Like imagine a HESCO wall that has a hole in the bottom to go prone

[tall sequoia]

i've gotten really good results with the m249 just sweeping up groups of people

[midnight lagoon]

Or a mini-bunker with a small hole to shoot out from

[tall sequoia]

who aren't paying attention

[midnight lagoon]

But ANY weapon can do that role

it's not a niche

[tall sequoia]

not really

what other gun has the kill potential per mag of the m249

it's part of the reason why the p90 is so popular

big mags are really powerful

[midnight lagoon]

How many situations can you count on one hand where you're about to utilize an entire 100 mag in the MG?

[tall sequoia]

it's constantly a benefit

[midnight lagoon]

Because P90 covers like 90% of all engagements with its mag size

And it comes at a cost

mainly ADS

which is why you need to set-up camp with the MG

and also movement speed - you can't run and gun with a MG

[tall sequoia]

barely having to reload, and basically havning no downtime is incredibly valuable

[tall sequoia]

that's more of an issue with support

[midnight lagoon]

MG literally has some of the biggest reload times in the game

MG and support are intricately tied together

[tall sequoia]

because you hardly ever have to reload

[midnight lagoon]

you cannot balance both in a vaccum

[tall sequoia]

of course

if i could run lighter armor with support, i would

[midnight lagoon]

No other class has access to MG weapons - it's literally a perk of the support class

but that's for the support thread

going off topic there

tying back to what I was saying: what role should the DMR have then we can talk about buffs

I think it should be a hit and run weapon class which is why I balance it with a lower ROF but higher accuracy and movement speed and you balance each DMR from there i.e. M110 would do more damage while being slower and lower velocity

[placid plinth]

i feel like a hit and run playstyle doesn't really work with DMRs; running around with them risks close range engagements with full auto weapons, which you'll almost always lose. and if you spot someone, you need to take at least 2 or more shots to kill them before you can run off
sniper rifles like the L96 fulfill that niche much better, hit and runs are much more effective when all it takes is one shot

[midnight lagoon]

tbh that's more of an issue with the respawn system ensuring there's a billion rats in everywhere direction making pick-offs meaningless

[jagged jay]

even if they add input queing we would still need a recoil nerf for that firerate to be useable

[tulip warren]

I thought about this some more, dmrs could benefit from a few things; at least 42 damage, at least 900 velocity, and a LOWER single shot fire stat compared to other guns to make it easier to tap fire with. The issue with lowering recoil as a whole is that if more automatic dmrs are added in the future they will be laserbeams at full auto, so limiting the lowest recoil to the first shot you take will greatly benefit well placed shots. Tbh I think the same idea should be added for the ARs but maybe that's just me.

[tulip rapids]

Again, reducing recoil makes them easier to use mot better just raising the skill floor

[snow crescent]

Hey guys, DMRs suck amirite

[jagged jay]

Yes

[tulip rapids]

they suck but on those 64v64 conquest lobbies they dont cuz lower player density BUT who plays conquest outside of 127v127 and then goes out of their way to pick the biggest map

[cyan palm]

Just raise the velocity everything else is fine when you get used to it

[fringe whale]

Just nerf all the AR and SMG recoils to match DMR >:D

[tropic skiff]

that’s as good as saying just buff all dmr and sr

[snow crescent]

Well no, because when you nerf everything else, only the DMRs and SRs are Overpowered, but when we buff DMR and SR, then everything is Bullshittery

[tulip rapids]

people will complain either way

[frosty nacelle]

🍿

M110 1 mag let's go 😂

2.5 horizontal do be kinda funny.

[brazen spire]

time for bcm tac barrel m110

[frosty nacelle]

Though suppressor M110 might be pretty fun too. Despite the nerfed fire rate

[snow crescent]

Our prayers have been answered

[frosty nacelle]

Harder to chain the 2nd shot 😂 with 50 less rpm kek

14% slower rof

Dps in shambles 😂

[snow crescent]

Well m110 is gonna be the “can you hit your shots” DMR now

[frosty nacelle]

SVD is shots go brrr

The 1 damage decrease.. Does that even change any breakpoints?

[snow crescent]

SVD and MK20 are now more generalist I’d say

[royal otter]

I'm pretty sure the dmg breakpoint is at 42 for exo armor

[frosty nacelle]

Ah

[royal otter]

it was either heavy or exo. So I would run LB on SVD now

[frosty nacelle]

Yeah

Biggest W is being able to use any barrel with M110

No longer locked to LB/HB or bust 😂

[royal otter]

Yea. Biggest L is the changes didn't come with action/input queing 😭

[frosty nacelle]

True

With decreased rof its gonna be more scuffed

[royal otter]

SVD w/ LB still probably be best DMR just cus it's got highest fire rate so lowest chance of missing inputs

[arctic river]

OKI YOU SAVAGE BEAST I LOVE YOU

Gonna get you a tin of tuna

[tall sequoia]

Mag nerfs

Just why

[zenith granite]

L for nerfing based on feedback you read off of 3 people a day into update

[arctic river]

Mk20 now viable, m110 now godly

[zenith granite]

svd was shit, made ok, and is being rubbed again with feces

[arctic river]

Svd now good

[blazing coral]

you're out of your mind if you think this is a nerf lmfao

[royal otter]

dmg nerf on SVD kinda big

loses exo breakpoint

[arctic river]

Mk20 with LB is going to be good, I think I will just about hit 50 damage

[zenith granite]

just use m110?

[arctic river]

Yea unsure about that, lower mag count now too

[tall sequoia]

isn't that the normal armor breakpoint? for body shots at least

[tropic skiff]

Exo 165

[blazing coral]

run long barrel or heavy barrel. Recoil was reduced so it won't matter.

[arctic river]

Higher velocities are nice

[tall sequoia]

with 42 it's 3 shot kill on normal armor

[royal otter]

It was an important BP, I thought it was for exo but could be misremembering

[tall sequoia]

sucks that we need LB/HB for that now lol

it's like the m110 and SVD reversed positions

[arctic river]

Needed it anyway

[tropic skiff]

I guess I need to join svd gang

[frosty nacelle]

Now there's a trade off between LB/HB SVD or suppressor SVD

[tropic skiff]

Infinitely better than mk14 now

[arctic river]

The control nerf for m110 with the much higher weight is a big handling nerf

[tall sequoia]

it was 3 shot body shot kill before without LB/HB

[royal otter]

ya i'm kind of sad MK14 didn't go the other way and get it's horizontal recoil reduced, but vert increased to make it a skill cannon like the scorp

[nimble plinth]

dmr buff lets go

[blazing coral]

I feel like it's fine tbh. Other guns have the same choice. I can't even list all of the guns that reach certain breakpoints only with long/heavy barrel, it's a shitload of them. You're making a conscious choice to trade that damage increase for a bit of control.

[tall sequoia]

i don't think control even does anything still

unless they fixed it

[arctic river]

And is going to make running around with one and snapping people at mid range much harder

[raven parrot]

this seems... contradictory

and confusing

[arctic river]

Oki's english

You get used to it

[raven parrot]

so has reload time gotten longer?

[royal otter]

yea gotta read all the changes twice lmao

yes reload speed is worse now

[raven parrot]

cool

[tropic skiff]

Speed is probable an internal parameter

[arctic river]

Yea it's been increased

[covert rune]

Fucking finally omg

[tropic skiff]

It only shows the reload time to player

[frosty nacelle]

Easier to say x nerfed and y buffed

[tropic skiff]

Which is some base time/spd

[royal otter]

you would think so, but so many players don't understand and use nerf interchangeably with "reduce" and buff interchangeably with "increase".

For example they'll ask to nerf recoil when they want it reduced, which would actually be a buff. Very irritating sometimes

[zenith granite]

it means 1 is 100% of reload time, 3.2 s, make it 15% faster its 85% 0.85

u been to like 6th grade math bruh?

[tropic skiff]

Oh shit bro 15% faster is the worst term you can use

[raven parrot]

new stat just dropped

[blazing coral]

Reload speed is stat multiplier is my guess. equipping something like the urk or a quick mag probably multiplies the reload speed by a certain amount.

[frosty nacelle]

Oh man that bugs me 😂 I could've lived a life knowing such people didn't exist

[tropic skiff]

0.85x time is different from 1.15x speed which is 1/1.15x time

[royal otter]

oh yea. I've had arguments about that in feedback before, makes me want to pull my hair out

[tropic skiff]

Both can be stated as “15% faster”

Engrish is hard

[blazing coral]

Guys the gun is reloading slower now, not faster.

[zenith granite]

i think you are confused

[unique apex]

I still don't think this a good buff. More like a change for me.

[blazing coral]

Reload speed reduced from 1 to 0.85 (3.33s to 3.92s)

[tropic skiff]

Is mk14 now officially worse scar?

[blazing coral]

3.92 seconds is longer than 3.33 seconds.

[unique apex]

Mk20 47 damage mean still 3 shot even with lb

[arctic river]

Not👏a👏native👏english👏speaker👏

[tropic skiff]

So don’t lb

[blazing coral]

Holy shit, if you run long/heavy barrel the M110 will get assist counts as kill on a headshot.

[arctic river]

You know what he means, cut him some slack

[tropic skiff]

While SR gets a kill already

[blazing coral]

is that reaction a request for more information or are you marking that as useful lol I can't tell

[unique apex]

2.5 horizon is terrible on 110

[tropic skiff]

Also I don’t think dmg on helmet counts…?

[frosty nacelle]

Stealth gameplay. Tag someone enough for the kill points and xp. But not get exposed by the kill cam. 🧠

[blazing coral]

I'm not sure either. But regardless, it's gonna be possible.

[zenith granite]

[tropic skiff]

i mean if you’re so good at headshot you should just use any sr medium scope

[unique apex]

Need hp damage to get assist count as kill

[blazing coral]

Shoot slow.

[unique apex]

Armor won't count

[arctic river]

Great now I can't play BBr until this update drops, when an update just dropped!

[royal otter]

??? if you hit them without a kill they get a giant arrow that points literally right at you

[unique apex]

And what with the fire rate nerf on m110

[arctic river]

Because it can 2-shot by default now

[blazing coral]

it's a 0.029 second increase to optimal ttk, I think it'll be fine.

[unique apex]

With 2.5 horizontal recoil

[arctic river]

Yea? But it's semi auto

[frosty nacelle]

Horizontal recoil is fine for semi auto

[tropic skiff]

however weird it sounds I think m110 got more balanced cuz no more need for LB grind and it got everything else properly nerfed

[arctic river]

The rof for semi auto only really comes into play when you're panic firing because a medic armed with a groza has parkoured over to you at 50mph

[blazing coral]

I'm excited to try out the Mk20, I want to see how it feels.

[unique apex]

But 2.5 and with 1.4 fsk gonna make it harder to shot

[royal otter]

no...

[tropic skiff]

Vertical recoil really means nothing for most guns …

[arctic river]

To shoot twice

[tropic skiff]

Well maybe except for evo

[unique apex]

Remember semi mean all shot get fsk and m110 have 1.4

[blazing coral]

Gunfighter grip on the M110 I guess now lol

[unique apex]

Vertical is the easiest recoil to control

[tropic skiff]

And flashhider!

[arctic river]

I don't think the recoil buff will substantially affect how the m110 feels to play

[frosty nacelle]

FH and bcm. Slap my sg550 attachments on the m110

[arctic river]

Buff? Increase.

[blazing coral]

Yeah, I'm still gonna run long barrel though because I want that sweet sweet damage.

[arctic river]

Be cool, run heavy barrel

Be different

[unique apex]

What I mean is it still the same recoil nonsense for m110 with abit of damage buff and mag nerf

[tropic skiff]

Dmg increase without making it over any breakpoint is kinda not worth

[blazing coral]

Heavy barrel increases horizontal more than long barrel though, long barrel might be the play on the M110 tbh.

[tropic skiff]

Hvy add more first shot kicks

It’s just gonna kill it altogether

[blazing coral]

Assist counts as kill on headshot, plus a lot of people out there are running around with 80 health or so after bandaging if they don't want to use so many in one go.

[unique apex]

Feel like MK14 and Svd is the winner this patch

[tropic skiff]

idk im seeing 75% medic

[raven parrot]

hmmm... the buffs are looking pretty modest. Two of the DMRs are now weaker than before up close. The M110 is kinda bad now tbh.
The others do have a lot less recoil now though.

[nimble plinth]

i feel like the high recoil would be fine if the visual recoil wasnt so jarring. plenty other games with very high recoil weapons that still feel good to use

[blazing coral]

you're kidding right? the M110 changes are a huge buff.

[tall sequoia]

Svd damage nerf is significant

[tropic skiff]

Not sure if it makes dmr overall better in any meaningful way judging from map design

[raven parrot]

the 50 lost fire rate is a pretty major issue if you're close enough to fire quickly

[blazing coral]

run long barrel or heavy barrel and it will be the exact same if not better.

[unique apex]

Oh right the armor break point

[arctic river]

I think the mk20 might be able to hit 50 damage with long barrel

[nimble plinth]

huh

[blazing coral]

it's a 0.029 second increase in optimal ttk.

[arctic river]

In which case mk20 is the clear winner

[raven parrot]

"optimal ttk"?

[blazing coral]

nope, 49.35 with long/heavy barrel.

[arctic river]

Rip

[unique apex]

Heavy armor is 42 hp right?

[blazing coral]

the fastest you can possibly kill an unarmored opponent with the gun.

[tropic skiff]

43?

[raven parrot]

yeah that is not a measurement that translates well into the game

[ocean mango]

@raven parrot has earned the Tier IV Member role!

[unique apex]

Oh then svd nerf not really that matter

[blazing coral]

okay lol but regardless, it's not gonna have much of an impact on the M110 since most people don't fire it at maximum fire rate anyway.

[tropic skiff]

Now it can’t 3hk normal armor

[raven parrot]

yeah if they aren't close enough to max fire rate it's a buff

[unique apex]

How much is normal armor?

[tropic skiff]

25

[raven parrot]

which is why I said the buffs are generally modest

[tropic skiff]

41*3=123

[unique apex]

Oh rip then only mk14 seem ok

[blazing coral]

even if they are close enough it's not a very significant difference. Plus, I'd argue that losing a bit of close range effectiveness is good because that's not what a DMR is meant to do anyway.

[unique apex]

The rest of the change is meh

[blazing coral]

literally just run long barrel.

[tropic skiff]

just gotta play the no recon community servers lol

[raven parrot]

it's loosing 1/7 of your fire rate. That is quite a lot.

[blazing coral]

whatever you say

[unique apex]

I do find some case where I fire at maximum fire rate

[tall sequoia]

Yeah just won't be fun grinding that out

[raven parrot]

I've estimated the new SVD ttk to be 0.313 in comparison to the old 0.29. But recoil is a good bit more managable

[raven parrot]

the long barrel puts the TTK back to how it was but you still have better recoil

[blazing coral]

you were literally just telling me ttk isn't a viable measurement for this game what the fuck lmao

[raven parrot]

so that's a buff overall

[raven parrot]

I don't think that was me, are you sure
I think TTK is always good to consider

[unique apex]

Like when I get a good angle to shoot enemies in the back. Have bit FR help kill them better

[blazing coral]

right here

[raven parrot]

"optimal ttk"

not ttk generally

optimal just implies excluding the suboptimal scenarios

[blazing coral]

How are you calculating ttk

[raven parrot]

I have 3 batches of it really, but I assume a head shot chance of 17.1% and a limb shot chance of 27.8%. The first and most important number I consider is calculated assuming the enemy has armour, then one assuming their armour is broken, and thirdly if you are chain killing (killing multiple right after the other)

[blazing coral]

what the fuck

[unique apex]

Well look like I keep play with ultimax then.

[arctic river]

He loooooves numbers

[raven parrot]

it isn't nearly as complex as I'd like it to be :D

but my effort is limited

[arctic river]

Alternatively you could play the game

[raven parrot]

I can do both

[arctic river]

😄

[blazing coral]

optimal ttk is just a measure of how fast you can possibly kill someone with a gun. It's not a perfect stat, but it gives a good baseline. the word "optimal" is used because it assumes all shots are fired at maximum fire rate with no range or armor penalty and hit the area which will do the most damage.

[unique apex]

Not excited about the change

[raven parrot]

headshots?

[blazing coral]

How did you end up with those percentages?

[raven parrot]

public polls.

[arctic river]

What Oki giveth, He also taketh away

[raven parrot]

so they're an estimate of reality

but it's as close as I am able to get

I can recompute any numbers with other values if it's considered important

[blazing coral]

Typically yes, although for some guns like the M110 it doesn't matter.

[raven parrot]

mmm yes the pure unarmoured headshot perfect accuracy gunfights

[blazing coral]

that's why it is called optimal ttk and not just ttk

[raven parrot]

also why it sucks

[blazing coral]

it's not a perfect measurement lol. It is however a useful baseline, especially for automatic weapons. considering optimal ttk and fire rate gives you a pretty good point of reference.

I am very doubtful on the use of public polls to determine accuracy statistics though ngl

[raven parrot]

I've no better method

But if I give people stats that are based on how well they think they do, then they'll likely be inclined to feel they're accurate at least.

reality is subjective when no-one's counting

[tropic skiff]

average

[royal otter]

all guns should have perfect accuracy

[blazing coral]

I'm super excited to use DMRs with this change though, I don't want to wait lol

[sleek plinth]

Rejoice, recoil reduction across the board.

[raven parrot]

anyone here who actually uses DMRs able to comment on how bad they think the horizontal recoil increases will affect it

[arctic river]

I use DMRs a lot, I think horizontal recoil will impact handling minimally

You don't fire fast enough at DMR ranges for it to have a substantial affect

In fact it's better than vertical recoil because you don't lose your target horizon nearly as much

[royal otter]

depends how you use them, I can handle the vert recoil fine so I'd rather have high vert than high horizontal. I also don't agree with yeti at all

[floral pendant]

any1 knows what control changes do?

[brazen spire]

no one really knows, oki just doing a little trolling ig

[raven parrot]

It affects the natural weapon sway

However there is a second hidden stat called weight that seems related, but I don’t think we know what that does

[zealous oasis]

why the actual fuck would they reduce SVD damage

its a dmr

[tall sequoia]

heard it doesn't actually lol

not sure if that was changed

[raven parrot]

hmm

[zealous oasis]

its not even full-auto. please just reduce its firerate instead lol

[raven parrot]

A.
So much ambiguity

However I imagine this wouldn’t be hard to test

[tall sequoia]

there was a YTer that posted comparisons of control, but idr his name now

and this was like a month ago

[zealous oasis]

like, wow yay now it does what, scar damage? hooray, velocity increase. now i can really make use of that decreased damage

[tall sequoia]

so might be fixed for all we know

[tall sequoia]

akshually, less damage

[raven parrot]

You can get an SMG with high control and a 4x and an LMG with low control and the same optic to compare pretty easily I guess

[zealous oasis]

omfg

[tall sequoia]

yeah

should be able to get an idea

[raven parrot]

Less recoil though

[raven parrot]

That was the focus of the changes

[zealous oasis]

honestly at this point, oki. just outsource recon balances

[tall sequoia]

pretty sure he has been outsourcing the gun balancing

which is why i'm waiting to see it hit live

[zealous oasis]

i mean yeah, less recoil but its still a DMR. it is not an assault weapon, and it will still get its ass absolutely handed to it in 90% of encounters where I need RPM and recoil on a DMR

it just feels like shoehorning the damn gun into a role it will never ever excel at, at the cost of performance in the role it should be able to fulfil

like honestly, the other DMR changes look quite good. but SVD went halfway in the wrong direction

and

now SVD seems like it will be even more of an outlier in the DMR class

excluding the Mk14, because its definitely a battle rifle, not a DMR, the MK20 looks set to be a really solid rifle. more velocity less damage than the M110. SVD has less of both than both of the aforementioned rifles. by a lot

the two stats of paramount importance when trying to use a DMR at DMR ranges

but hey, whatever. as a whole, these DMR changes do look super solid. nothing says the weird direction the SVD is being taken in is set in stone anyway

[raven parrot]

Velocity has been buffed universally so it’ll be a less important factor than it was before when selecting between DMRs

[zealous oasis]

eh, i think it will make it more important, since the heavy and long barrels will have an increased effect, the SVD is still the slowest of the three DMRs while also now being by far the least damaging

[blazing coral]

The SVD was buffed. If you want that damage breakpoint back, run long barrel.

[zealous oasis]

svd was buffed in the way youd expect a battle rifle to be buffed, not a DMR. SVD will never ever be my first choice for running around to spray at people with. i dont see the point of buffing it into such a niche

[raven parrot]

Still 10%.

[zealous oasis]

10% of 1100 is a larger increase than 10% of 950

[raven parrot]

The changes in velocity in comparison between the guns are now lower, as well as velocity generally being less relevant as at higher velocities it matters to the same extent only at further ranges

[raven parrot]

Seems irrelevant.

[royal otter]

having some variety in DMR slot is fine, SVD performing more like a battle rifle is fine because there are 2 other DMRs that play like you prefer

[zealous oasis]

if they are going to play like battle rifles, call them such

[royal otter]

That's how I was mostly using it to begin with, I ran it with either a red dot or 2x. It should be slightly better in that role for most players, though I'll be swapping to a long barrel with it if I use it for the dmg breakpoint

[blazing coral]

it has a higher rate of fire than the Mk14 and also does more damage per shot.

[royal otter]

no point in having 3 DMRs that all play exactly the same, it's good that one of them has a different niche

[zealous oasis]

would be fine if it were fully auto. but it isnt, and will suffer from the same issue as the M9, and the M9 is inferior to the Mp443 for said reason

[royal otter]

the changes give 4 pretty distinct playstyles so overall I think they are great changes. I do hope we get action/input queuing before the patch goes live, though, otherwise the DMRs will still feel just as clunky as they do now. That is the most important feature out of all

[zealous oasis]

and the Mp isnt even fully auto

[blazing coral]

it still does more damage, and you can still fire it quickly. It's good for the game to have variety between weapons in a class. The niche you seem to want the SVD to be in is already taken by the M110 and the Mk20.

[zealous oasis]

like, im fine with it filling a niche different from the other DMRs. but i think this change just puts it in a weird middle grey-area instead of actually filling the niche

[royal otter]

how is it in a weird grey area? That's already it's niche as is, it just got better stats in that niche.

[zealous oasis]

its not fully auto, so its higher RPM wont generally be as reliable as the Mk14s lower on-paper RPM (though if action queueing gets improved this will be a non-issue), and it seems like, assuming no changes to the ARs this round of balance changes, it still wont hold a candle to the scar and ak15

[arctic river]

If the SVD fits your suited playstyle then perfect, what you're asking for is already fulfilled by the other DMRs

I think Walks correct

[zealous oasis]

there is no correct or incorrect here. these is a place for exchanging opinions, no?

that being said, i dont dispute that the other two DMRs fill their niche fine already. but imo that niche is just more or less what a DMR is. call the Mk14 and SVD battle rifles

looking that the mk14, to change gears, im not sure of the wisdom of taking a mag away from it

[arctic river]

How niche do you want to get on descriptions tho? That just becomes semantics after a while

[blazing coral]

it's not meant to compete with the Scar and the AK15. It's not an assault rifle. It has lower DPS in exchange for longer range, and higher velocity.

[zealous oasis]

then why the 400rpm?

[royal otter]

excluding the lack of action/input queuing, I found the SVD more reliable than the scar, the changes are only going to help that even more. It plays completely differently than the SCAR does and has a much wider effective engagement range

[blazing coral]

Because it is filling the niche of being a faster-firing DMR. also, the Mk14 is 400rpm. The SVD is 450 or so.

[zealous oasis]

apologies. i prestiged the other day so i cant bring its stats up despite being in game, and i dont think discord has a return to top button?

[blazing coral]

no worries, I wasn't sure of the RPM either because I also prestiged recently lol

[royal otter]

with the changes I'll like it even more. I had a really good time when I used it and it was very deadly, very much like snipers I could engage at any distance at anytime, but in closer ranges it wasn't an all in, so had a bit more consistency. I much prefered it to the SCAR

[zealous oasis]

speaking of, why did they push the prestige update without mentioning it anywhere? or did they say it on a dev stream or something?

[arctic river]

Dev stream

[zealous oasis]

T_T

[jagged jay]

THE DEVS HAVE HEARD OUR CRIES

now we just need input queing 👍

[tropic skiff]

Might as well just make all guns full auto

[arctic river]

Lots of input qq-ing going on in this thread

[blazing coral]

now GIVE THE DMRS RANGER BARREL

[dusty patio]

I wish barrels were a separate attachment

[royal otter]

One of the acceptable kinds of qqing

[tulip warren]

WHY was the m14 nerfed so hard. Great, less vertical recoil. But why is the first shot kick higher? Why is there more horizontal recoil? I’m really pissed with this change because using the m14 in tap fire is the only way you get value from it as a dmr. Is a dmr that can go full auto REALLY that much better than one which can tap fire just as quickly? Also the mag reduction and short mag size, and low rpm makes it not even hold a light to any AR to begin with so why was the horizontal and first shot kick nerf needed? This change just makes absolutely no sense

[raven parrot]

I think it’s still a buff overall

[tall sequoia]

a very small one

[raven parrot]

But not a big one

[tall sequoia]

yeah

what they did with the mk14 is weird

[raven parrot]

Uncharacteristically for these devs, the weapons have been tuned quite slightly

[tall sequoia]

pretty sure they've outsourced balancing

[royal otter]

I still would've preferred mk14 get less hrecoil and more vrecoil woulda been so much fun

[gleaming socket]

👀

[tall sequoia]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/446795482732429313.webp?size=48&name=Suspicious&quality=lossless

who else is on the balancing committee

[gleaming socket]

Has been since the vector nerf

[tall sequoia]

yeah i mean the vector didn't get nerfed into a secondary weapon

so that's a dead giveaway

[spice lintel]

HOLY SHIT DMR CHANGES

[gleaming socket]

It's not "balancing committee" its private feedback group.

[spice lintel]

This is so swag, all of my recs got in

Not the armour pen but velocity and ADS, the 49->51 jump for the m110 is awesome #1138742385589887136 message

[tall sequoia]

potato potato

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/852669297611636749.webp?size=48&name=kekw&quality=lossless

what was the reasoning behind the SVD damage nerf and the spare mag reductions? 🤔

[maiden parcel]

It's probably a precaution with people running low armor builds with them.

[gleaming socket]

SVD now barely has any recoil.
Lower damage would restrict the it's abuse against normal armor.
Spare mags. Were meant to balance out the new buffs, M110 for example is now 2 shot, so it would be very powerful, thus less bullets.
But tbh I have read a lot of feedback regarding DMR changes and depending on the feedback when they are tested on live servers, might have to adjust by a lot.

[long bronze]

ahh now the SVD needs long barrel I guess

[tall sequoia]

i see i see, thanks

i prob won't touch DMRs still until we have input queuing tbh, but at least the changes seem to be in the right direction

[tropic skiff]

Makes mk14 a worse scar just like irl

[tulip warren]

This

[tulip warren]

It was already a worse scar and a worse AR than all the ars lol

400rpm and 14 mag round it needs more dmg

[tropic skiff]

I mean, the massively increased first shot kick tries to force it into full auto at which point it’s a piece of *

[tulip warren]

And first shot recoil should have stayed at 1.0 imho

Yeah dude

I like the current mk14 because I have the option of full auto if I want to, but this nerf to single shot fire idk, just seems very unnecessary

[tall sequoia]

give mk14 its IRL RPM

[tropic skiff]

hey it has a little shorter ttk than aug I’ll give it that

[tulip warren]

Tbh that wouldnt be too bad

[tropic skiff]

(Pls don’t compare it to one of the lowest dps ar)

Weirdly enough I think only mk20 got a minor buff, all others are nerfs…?

wait even mk20 is nerfed, hor recoil

[tulip warren]

Hor recoil and dmrs don't mix lol

You need it low to get successive shots off at range. Much easier to predict vertical recoil than hor recoil.

Unironically the dmrs are better at <100m than they are past 100m because anything past that is sniper territory

[tropic skiff]

It kinda becomes second nature pulling aim down the fixed amount of the gun of choice

If you shoot it enough vert recoil doesn’t exist

Hor recoil just there to ruin the day

[tulip warren]

Yea it adds rng lol

[tropic skiff]

I don’t even know why first shot kick is a thing for forced semi auto guns

[tulip warren]

Yeah imho it should have been lower than 1.0

[tropic skiff]

Just reflect the multiplier to recoil unless it’s doing something fishy

[tulip warren]

Maybe not necessary tho for single shot ones since vert recoil is more important for semi auto

But for mk14 it could ruin it or make it the same as it is atm

Idk

It got a massive vertical recoil buff to be fair

I don't like the horizontal recoil because it feels like they're trying to balance it as an AR?

[tropic skiff]

Uh, who cares vertical again? Especially it got such a low rpm

[tulip warren]

Maybe flash hider will give me back pre nerf mk14

Its easier to tap fire quickly imo

At long range

love my mk14

[tropic skiff]

Add another 100 kills to it and stop using it

[tulip warren]

Yeah I might just do that it the new update fucks it

Mk20 at 1100 velocity tho seems very nice

[spice lintel]

this is my setup 🔥

[tall sequoia]

that's a lot of kills

[dusty patio]

Wtf 💀

Most kills I have on a single gun is like 300

Or 400

[spice lintel]

luv me m110 2 shot

[tulip warren]

I would like the m110 more if it felt better to tap fire with

Feels like theres no queue to it

[spice lintel]

yeah

youd be right

[blazing coral]

I cannot believe you are all complaining so much about the DMR buffs. Oki could send you all 20 dollars cash and you’d still find a way to complain about it.

[unique apex]

For me it more of a change than a buff or nerf. It buffs in some nerf in some.

All guns got changed and I am not really excited about it

[blazing coral]

They absolutely got buffed

You guys are out of your minds

Reductions in recoil, increases in velocity and damage.

[tulip warren]

Cognitive dissonance, theres also recoil increases

[blazing coral]

Not significant ones

[tulip warren]

We'll see how much of an impact it has

0.5 is significant

[blazing coral]

0.5 for what?

[tulip warren]

first shot kick

[blazing coral]

Not a big deal

Still less recoil overall

[tulip warren]

Why

Give me reasons

[blazing coral]

First shot kick has less of an affect than vertical recoil does as a stat

vertical recoil was reduced by 60%. That's a lot.

[tulip warren]

That's true

What my concern was is that its counterintuitive to nerf first shot recoil when you're gonna be using it at longer ranges

You can't spray at 150m+

Theres no way to tell though until the update drops

You might be right at it wont make any difference

[blazing coral]

I think it's still gonna be an overall reduction in recoil even with the first shot kick changes.

I just looked at something in the shooting range.

[spice lintel]

47 doesnt do 50 with long barrel does it

[blazing coral]

I tried a stock m110 with no other attachments, stood at a fixed distance from the grid wall, and fired a few shots to see how much the reticle moved.

then I put a vertical skeleton grip on to reduce vertical recoil by 0.15, and tried again.

then I put the stabil grip on to reduce first shot kick by 0.18 and tried again.

the end result was that the attachment reducing first shot kick reduced recoil by less than the attachment reducing the vertical recoil stat. So we can gather that it should still be an overall decrease in recoil.

[tulip warren]

If the stats for mk20 long barrel aren't changed nope, it gives 2.25

[spice lintel]

unlucky

[tulip warren]

Thats good then

[spice lintel]

so vertical > stabil for vertical recoil mitigation

astonished emoji

[blazing coral]

Yes, but the bigger lesson is that lowering vertical recoil has a greater effect on single shot weapons than lowering first shot kick.

[spice lintel]

youd instinctively think stabil would be better for tap firing ay

[blazing coral]

I thought so too, but you can go check for yourself. The difference is pretty significant.

[spice lintel]

have u tried bipod

[tulip warren]

Bipod gives worse recoil deploy than it would if you just took vertical grip

Lets be honest the attachments are more unbalanced than any of the guns at the moment

[unique apex]

That hor from 1 to 2.5. That nerf is huge for me

[blazing coral]

For you, sure. The changes are still a buff overall.

[unique apex]

Nah I can reach 51 with long barrel and got less hor recoil so it a nerf

Big nerf for me

[blazing coral]

Okay, I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m looking forward to using the gun after the buff goes through.

[unique apex]

Hope you have fun good luck

[dusty patio]

I would like the m110 actually looked like an m110 in my head

[edgy marlin]

Flash hider, If you use that + SE-5 you pretty much have SCAR/FAL/AK-15
2.1/1.75/1.5 (3.15) w/gunfighter+flash
2/1.82/1.5 (3) w/se-5+flash

VS SCAR w mods
Flashhider/vertical is 1.79/1.74
Flashhider/Se 5 is 2.09/1.56
Flashhider/Gunfighter is 2.24/1.51
Compensator/Gunfighter is 1.57/1.8

A lot of guns when you look to actually modding them are going to have more stats

SVD sees something like at max with most it's load out with long barrel maybe 0.09 more vertical recoil but -0.3 horizontal recoil

EBR has .2 more vertical recoil but if you work on fixing it with SE-5+NT4 you will have the same horizontal recoil of the vert grip + any other barrel or maybe .03 more horizontal recoil but your First shot recoil is going to be less then a fully vertical recoil modded current EBR with those two and your shots after are going to feel like a laser especially since the shots will be going 950m now instead too.

But the math of First shot recoil is total recoil x first shot recoil.

So 3 * 1.5 = 4.5 vertical recoil on every shot

[tulip warren]

They should honestly just have horizontal recoil be at 1.0 for all the dmrs. Introducing more rng by the way of horizontal recoil isn't fun, can't be predicted is a bad balancing choice for a gun that requires the user to be accurate and precise. It is counterintuitive.

[edgy marlin]

Most DMR's with optimal attachments have pretty much close to the same recoil it just swapped from picking vert grip/tactical to flash hider/gunfighter or SE-7

M110 is the only one seeing the big change from 1->2.5 but it's losing 1.5 worth of vertical recoil

But as pointed flash hider is a double benefit of removing your hider and fixing the new horizontal recoil

M110 with Flashhider/SE-5 pretty much going to be like firing the SCAR with attachments

Now the issue IMO is most the DMR's will feel bad til you unlock the flash hider + SE-5 grip but on the flip side thats sooner then vertical grip

SVD is going to feel meh compared to the one right now then become goofy with the long barrel making it a minimal recoil and 43 damage

really the biggest issue with DMR's is their irregular magazine sizes, they just need to be 20 across the board IMO

[edgy marlin]

For example

New MK20 + SE5/SDN
1.59/1.09
Vs
Current MK20 vertical grip/tactical
2.4/1.02

New SVD LB+Vertical Grip
1.4(1.68)/1.1/1.2 @ 43 damage @ 1045 velocity
VS
Current
Tactical/Vertical
1.28(1.61)/1.32/1.26 @ 42 damage @ 740 velocity

New EBR is
1.2(1.8)/1.2/1.5
Vs
OLD EBR is
2.2/1.0/1.0

So really the big change is .2 more horizontal recoil but .4 less vertical recoil on the first shot and 1.0 less vertical recoil on shots after

so SE grip + NT4 might see .05 might see .05 more recoil but way less recoil then a vertical grip/tactical EBR

M110 is the biggest change but with with flash hider + gunfighter it goes down to something like
2.1(3.15)/1.75/1.5

Versus it's current
3(4.5)/1/1.5

So with mods
MK110 has .6 less total recoil
EBR has .3 less total recoil and .8 less total recoil after the first shot
MK20 has almost 1.0 less total recoil
SVD has .12 less total reccoil

Most of them when changed have had their total recoil reduced by a good bit

[paper fjord]

Can't wait to send Littlebirds back to base with buffed DMRs.

[tulip rapids]

Damn the 350 ->300 rpm without input queueing is horrible 💀

[unique apex]

Idk why you think vertical recoil is the same as horizontal recoil. Vertical it only recoil up. Horizontal recoil you have to deal with random kick left and right. It basically double the recoil.

[lapis nest]

I'd rather 4 vertical recoil with no horizontal than 0 vertical with 2 horizontal

[edgy marlin]

well no gun has 0 horizontal

SVD has less horizontal recoil and barely more vertical

[lapis nest]

It's just a figure of speech

[unique apex]

Overall it like a nerf in recoil

[edgy marlin]

0.09 more vertical with 0.22 less horizontal

[lapis nest]

I prefer the Vertical:Horizontal 2:1

[edgy marlin]

no you change your mods

most of them you pick up flash hider instead of vertical grip and with them being 1.0 to 1.4

pretty much the M110 is on par with the scar in terms of recoil

a modified SCAR

Though all semi-autos suffer from no input queing, thats nothing new

its why most people use the G18 pistol

Most the guns with the current modifications are just changes and pretty much have the same horizontal recoil as the current ones now because since their vertical recoil is 1.0 or 1.2

[lapis nest]

You can't really reach max input queueing with the MP443 lol

[edgy marlin]

true more the M9 I've had it not fire a few times

prefer the M9 since it allways kills on 4 outside of medium but most people run light or ranger

honestly for DMR's imo trying to fix horizontal recoil becomes a blessing in disguise

[lapis nest]

I use the MP443 cuz it's the speedy gun

[edgy marlin]

FLASH HIDER

instead of having a massive flash, most dmr's will have 0 flash now

[unique apex]

That not true because scar only have 1 fsk when m110 is 1.5

That make m110 always recoil more

[lapis nest]

nyooooming gun, used that bad boy to get top 20 in the speedrunning

[edgy marlin]

m110 is going to be something like 3.0/1.75

M110 is the biggest change but with with flash hider + gunfighter it goes down to something like
2.1(3.15)/1.75/1.5

VS SCAR w mods
Flashhider/vertical is 1.79/1.74
Flashhider/Se 5 is 2.09/1.56
Flashhider/Gunfighter is 2.24/1.51
Compensator/Gunfighter is 1.57/1.8

but a scar cant 2 body tap you

[unique apex]

Yes but first shot kick is a thing and scar is 1

[edgy marlin]

yes thats the thing

you get a penalty of 3.0-3.15/1.75/1.86

[unique apex]

And the gun that mostly compare with scar is mk14

[edgy marlin]

well you use the M110 for the 2 shot body shot

[unique apex]

M110 is no way close with scar in gameplay style

[edgy marlin]

no but the point is the horizontal recoil is on par with the scar

that's as bad as it got but it no longer has 4.5 base recoil m110

so we get way less recoil which is easier to manage

[unique apex]

The old recoil is still better if you compare now vs the change

[lapis nest]

Mk14 my beloved

[edgy marlin]

MK14 EBR straight up got buffed

New EBR is
1.2(1.8)/1.2/1.5
Vs
OLD EBR is
2.2/1.0/1.0

[lapis nest]

Still, is it worth using the EBR over the scar H since they both possess 3BTK but the scar H have way more RPM

[edgy marlin]

velocity

you're not supposed to use DMR's up close

[lapis nest]

If I want velocity I could go for the AUG

[edgy marlin]

aug cant 1HS+1body shot

[unique apex]

Not really over scar h

Scar h still better

[lapis nest]

Also you can't really tap the EBR anymore cuz of the 1.5

[edgy marlin]

Mnnn not exactly velocity matters a lot in long range fights

uh

okay bckt

i want you to do some math for me

whats 2.2 x 1

2.2

[lapis nest]

ok

u got me

[edgy marlin]

1.5 x 1.2

1.8

[unique apex]

Velocity matter but 950 vs 750 is not much

[lapis nest]

900 not 950

[unique apex]

That even not matter more

[edgy marlin]

ah but thats because of the barrel you're using is now incorrect

SE5+NT4

[lapis nest]

I got an impression that the new Mk14 is a baby between the scar with the AUG

[edgy marlin]

now it's 1k velocity

[lapis nest]

990 but close enough

[edgy marlin]

The New EBR has pretty much the same horizontal recoil as before because we all put vertical grip

but with SE5+nt4 we get less vertical recoil then before even single firing

and pretty much the same horizontal recoil as before

[lapis nest]

Why not long barrel

[edgy marlin]

so pretty much our first shot will have less recoil then a full -25% was 1.65 vertical recoil
1.11 with SE-5 =1.67 first shot recoil (.2) but then .54 less recoil on ful auto

Long barrel works too adds more vertical recoil

New SVD with longbarrel is currently imo better then current SVD

[lapis nest]

DMR no doubt buffed

[edgy marlin]

0.09 more vertical for 0.2 less horizontal

[lapis nest]

They had too much recoil for their damage

[edgy marlin]

M110 is the only one that got weirdly put into a spot

[lapis nest]

nah M110 got returned to it's original form

[edgy marlin]

it is pretty much the horizontal recoil of an SCAR/AK-15/FAL

[lapis nest]

2 shotting people

[edgy marlin]

with 3.0

but it is 2 shotting people with FLASH hider

so you no longer have the sun at your gun barrel and getting sniped in the face for firing

MK20 i would say is usable for it's role now cause you can easily attach a silencer on it

there is certainly reasons to pick the MK20 now before it was kinda made no sense with the SVD

[lapis nest]

Not even SVD, the M110 was better than the MK20 in every stat except for bullet in mag

[edgy marlin]

Thats true im talking about the changed MK20

[lapis nest]

I know

[edgy marlin]

---------- MK20 ----------

Damage increased, from 45 to 47

Vertical recoil reduced, from 3.3 to 1.2

Horizontal recoil increased, from 1 to 1.5

Velocity increased, from 800 to 1100

Firerate increased, from 325 to 350

ADS time reduced, from 0.35s to 0.3s

Running speed increased, from 0.95 to 0.96

Reload speed reduced, from 1 to 0.85 (3.2s to 3.76s)

Starting magazines reduced, from 3 to 2

the damage increase really wasn't a big deal

[lapis nest]

Recoil reduced was huge

[edgy marlin]

se5/sdn-6 will pretty much help with the vertical recoil and make the bullet velocity 1,155

this helps DMR's stand out vs FAL/AK/SCAR in long range

but the issue still stands most engagements are still sub 60m~

[lapis nest]

Maybe the buff will encourage a new ranged meta

Like how I use the AUG to overlook the objective, not running into it

[edgy marlin]

I think the big issue is people want DMR's to compete up close with the FAL/AK-15/SCAR which is kinda the point that those ones are better up close, DMR's are supposed to be better far away

[lapis nest]

I know right

People are too focused on the TTK

[edgy marlin]

I do understand the issue though as most smg's compete with most rifles up to like 70-87m

[lapis nest]

I saw too many aug user die in the objective

[edgy marlin]

AUG is good proof that a more easily controlled gun is useful at times

if you pick your range and play in a pretty open map

DMR's velocity increase really does help them out, people dont understand velocity really does help improve the TTK of guns from afar

M110 is prob the biggest change of the three

its hard to say if the 1.X change to vertical and adding .75 to horizontal will be big

[lapis nest]

AUG needs some more RPM, that's all

[unique apex]

Sorry wrong barrel

[lapis nest]

I shot the exo armor guy like 4 times in the head and he's still alive

[unique apex]

2.88/1/1.41 vs 2.1/1.75/1.4

[edgy marlin]

I feel the AUG should just be 600 rpm

[lapis nest]

yeap

[unique apex]

Still rip

[edgy marlin]

IDK I feel most the time i get murdered by the higher vert recoil with DMR's cause I'm looking to the sky and harder to place a second shot if they move

[lapis nest]

Yeap

also aim punch push it even further up

[edgy marlin]

Also M110 will also have a flash hider

so instead of having a large muzzle flash you will have 0

[unique apex]

Flash hide is nothing when everything so blocky and can be seen mile away

Unless you play night map

[edgy marlin]

Oh you say that, but you can see muzzle flashes into rooms in night maps or if your smart and try to restrict your sight, when im looking for snipers I see a flash in a room and kill the sniper

[unique apex]

That only work in night map which everybody hate night

[edgy marlin]

oh no they brighten up the room usually it can be hard to see but certain map/areas it's way more noticable

or the spot in an area that's darker grey/brown

it can make the room light up a bit more

[unique apex]

Tbh I never have problem with flash in day map

[lapis nest]

Flashes can be spot quite easily lol, I use the muzzle flash to identify target as a sniper

[edgy marlin]

IDK i find most my kills is because I spot the muzzle flash, especially now with snipers

[lapis nest]

SG550 users were the most noticable targets

Haven't snipe much since I unlocked the AUG

[edgy marlin]

SG550 just suffers from not having SMG movement, its such a flanker weapon but AR movement speed = 💀

with long barrel + forget my grip keeps the 4 shot kill even with light armor and same ttk with medium

issue can just run an mp5 or pp2000 or p90 or groza and move 20-30% faster

which being somewhere faster is the best thing for flanking

[lapis nest]

Especially PP2000 which is busted right now

I see the old vector in the PP2000

[edgy marlin]

yeah but with a better extended clip, it's not as bad as you can't make it go sub 1/1 recoil

[lapis nest]

A bit slower TTK yes, but the recoil and all the others

[edgy marlin]

but yeah DMR's I feel most the issue is most the time when you're in DMR range, your just a sniper with a G18 who doesn't need a DMR for possible CQC

Glock + Bolt action covers most ranges
FAL if you can aim is better then the DMR upclose and even though bad velocity it can still decently tap fire and pop snipers camping and has a good TTK upclose

Issue is you have to find some weird 80~-150m~ range on the map

and generally hold a good choke point where being able to go full auto (MK14)/semi auto is going to be useful and there isn't a lot of big open long range choke points

Its kinda my issue with LMG's too in this game, moving so much slower isn't worth going at the speed of molasses because you usually will just get flanked and die, and the longer ADS and higher recoil then rifles for the same damage... just better to run something like the SG550 that can just reload in 2 seconds

I feel the biggest issue is the games maps dont work with the gunplay, your either so far out a bolt action is the best choice, or your so close an smg/carbine/pdw are all the better choice, AR feel kinda the jack of all trades and LMG/DMR feel almost as they exist

[lapis nest]

Map was designed around a longer combat range back then

You could 1 shot people with the M110 back then, the Scar H 2 shot people, AK15 had no recoil, and the M249 bipod can hit anything across the map

Then they decided to nerf the range of everything without changing much of the old maps, or just scrap it completely and go for a "rework"

[edgy marlin]

Yeah i was going to say i never played the older betas but it feels very much like a game that the combat doesn't match the maps. You're extremely close or in a massive 200m+ sightline

but DMR's feel like they could work in a game where people moved slower

[lapis nest]

Back in the days you could be killed just running out of spawn by machine gun firing

[edgy marlin]

but seeing how the meta is a medic with SMG changing his air rotation to do 180 then 180 again and do a 720 mckickflip

[lapis nest]

It was heavily squad based back then, but the devs decided to shift it towards a more battlefield style of gameplay

Which does draw in a ton of players from the fan base

[edgy marlin]

Thats what I mean with it feels like they changed game design mid development as everything just seems slapped on

like why would you design a game where the extreme CQC or extreme long range are the only good options

[raven parrot]

I disagree that this statement applies to this game.

[lapis nest]

I agree with the statement completely

Above 300m it's literally sniper play field only

And it stretches all the way up to 1000m

[edgy marlin]

Most the guns just have weird ranges where they dont operate
M4 is still worst then an MP5 at 0-87m
M4 is still worst then an FAL at well in CQC but lets assume we just make it recoil control and dealing with targets
M4 is beaten at the 100m+ by the fal/scar/ak-15

you have this weird 13m range where your useful

if we go oh i can land my shots because of low recoil
Thats only useful as the mp5 has less recoil base then a modded m4 pretty much

and at longer ranges where you might only have time to drop 1-2 bullets a scar/ak/fal headshot + bodyshot is more reliable then trying to land 3 shots in the head

[raven parrot]

Whether M4 beats MP5 in CQC just depends on whether or not it has a long barrel.

[raven parrot]

But I think this is quite an unsound statement. That range being described seems to be where the gun beats everything else, not solely where it does well. Every gun has a curve like that.
I would say the AK74 beats the M4 in most scenarios though.

[edgy marlin]

Long barrel helps with medium armor but for the most case most people seem to run light or rangers

[raven parrot]

It helps for several things

Enough to get the average ttk from about 0.3 to 0.27

MP5 is in the middle of those against undamaged targets

[edgy marlin]

mp5/m4 w/LB/fal
225/257/184 no armor
225/257/184 light
300/257/276 medium
300/342/276 heavy
375/428/369 exo

in Miliseconds

where the MP5 has WAY WAY LESS RECOIL

and if we say controlling recoil isn't an issue -> FAL

[raven parrot]

Those stats aren’t that good as they assume pure bodyshots

Gives a bias to MP5 since it has a lower headshot multiplier than the other two

[edgy marlin]

if we assume pure headshots -> fal

[raven parrot]

(Also having them in 5 separate numbers is pointless)

[raven parrot]

Pure headshots is also unrealistic

[edgy marlin]

then FAL is better

its 1HS 1BS

vs needing to land HS body shots

[raven parrot]

Of course but I think that is something we can take for granted
Since its specialisation is a CQC quick killer

M4 (but I am more inclined to say AK74) has a good set of scenarios where it would win

[edgy marlin]

But again we're more talking the rifles which do better in CQC compared to lets say

Rifles are a good jack of all trades

DMR/LMG on the other hand

[raven parrot]

Range isn’t the only thing, there are also times when the target is behind cover so you can only see some of them. That has the same affect as making them further away except they can shoot you as if they are closer

[raven parrot]

LMGs are just rifles that go slower in exchange for more mag

[edgy marlin]

go slower, more recoil, more ADS time

[raven parrot]

Depends which one you are talking about for the recoil

[edgy marlin]

M249 havent used the new ulti

[raven parrot]

Ultimax now has a better recoil + ttk profile than any of the ARs

M249 has about the same recoil as a G36C

But I do think it should be buffed a bit on that front

[edgy marlin]

I find the G36C a bit better

I find movement speed is generally a better stat then mag size.

[raven parrot]

Understandable though this is now totally another discussion

[edgy marlin]

yeah again I find the issue is DMR's exist in this weird quasi situation where your outside to the fal/ak/scar 200m range drop off

but you're fighting a sniper who can one tap you in the head and need to use two bandages if you're not medic so you dont get killed on the second shot

you can fight at the 100m-200m possibly with the buffs

[raven parrot]

DMRs are mainly used against those who aren’t snipers in my experience. Because still, most people aren’t snipers

[edgy marlin]

but in cqc you're generally at an disadvantage

[raven parrot]

The DMRs in general have just been nerfed slightly in CQC

[edgy marlin]

I tend to pick on everyone with the m110 cause most snipers dont realize they're fighting

[raven parrot]

With an input buffer they’d be significantly better though

[edgy marlin]

they think oh i can take a sec- dead

thats true hard to say how good dmrs would be with input buffer

most the time i die in CQC i dont get a second shot with my m110 because i clicked too quickly

honestly the 350->300 rof is a bigger nerf then the .75 more horizontal recoil now imo

[raven parrot]

Agreed

Matters less at long range but closer up it’s no longer competitive with ARs

[edgy marlin]

honestly input buffering is just a good idea as it pushed people away from using a keyboard/mouse macro to auto click perfectly from the rpm

or autohotkey

its why i didn't care about the lean spamming with double inputs, because the alternative was really removing that is people will just go into their keyboard software and go alright pressing A and D also presses Q and E

heck with my keyboard that's the better option because I have laser switches that can set it's input if I have 25% the key press down it presses D if I press it past 25% I could have it press DE

Buffer input would really help the M9/SVD/M110/M20/Revolvers

Honestly I feel another big thing that would help DMR's is just give them 20 round mags, they're not going to become better then the FAL/SCAR/AK-15

[tulip warren]

Massive horizontal recoil nerf tho

Which was unnecessary

[scarlet topaz]

give DMRs more long range scopes (like 40x) and it will be more competitive against snipers further than 1km away

[brazen spire]

you'd need to hit 4 shots at that distance 💀

[scarlet topaz]

but greater scopes makes hitting targets much easier

personally i need these scopes cuz i want bully sandysunset snipurs with dmr without zeroing

[tulip rapids]

Thats not how it works

[blazing coral]

You’re still gonna have the glint though. They’re gonna bully you because you’ll need to hit them more than once, and they only need to hit you once

One of the advantages dmrs typically have is volume of fire. Being able to put more shots down range in a given period of time can give them the edge over sniper rifles in certain situations.

Extreme range, however, is NOT one of those situations.

[scarlet topaz]

not every sniper user can be guaranteed to hit the target if they don't know how to shoot beyond 1500m

[blazing coral]

Yeah, but you are at a huge disadvantage at that range with a DMR. That’s the point.

[scarlet topaz]

i know that a good sniper will 99% bully me in a distance further than 1500m, but fighting against them will be interesting experience with DMR

or a bit annoying experience

anyway, still need long range scopes for DMR

[blazing coral]

They have inverse damage falloff and you have normal damage falloff. You will need possibly 3-5 shots to kill then, but if they hit you once anywhere you’re dead.

[tulip rapids]

Also that means your praying on the sniper being bad which is a joke

[zealous oasis]

yep. m200 will one-shot any unarmoured bit at 1500m regardless of the barrel being used, and the SSG69 is the only of the bolt action rifles that wont one-shot an unarmoured body part at that range when using the ranger barrel. you can use DMRs at 1000m+, ive done it plenty of times and it can even be quite fun. but remaining un-found for as long as possible is vital when doing so. using a medium scope makes it pretty much impossible to remain unfound and is basically trying to force a paradox to not be paradoxical

[tulip rapids]

This is why i think suppression is better on m110 now that damage is 51

[zealous oasis]

yep. i can finally use it as a DMR and still get to use a suppressor lol

[tulip rapids]

Cuz with long suppressor by the time u launched 2 shots they dont know where u r

[fringe whale]

Why are we giving DMRs even less ammo now O.o

Pretty sure this change just means snipers straight up get more bullets than DMRs

I actually think I kind of hate these M110 changes

[dusty patio]

add the armalite 50

best DMR one shot only

[tall sequoia]

#1138742385589887136 message

i was curious too

[fringe whale]

M110 has ALWAYS been a 2 shot and was not especially powerful though? Combine that with the rate of fire cut and this weapon is going to feel worse to use than it did before

[tall sequoia]

well it wasn't 2 shot unless you ran LB/HB

[fringe whale]

Which was run by 100% of people

[tall sequoia]

not really, those are like 300 kill unlocks

i never unlocked those

i hardly ever use DMRs

[fringe whale]

sure, so you were not using the M110. If you used th M110 in any real amount you always used those barrels

so that was the expected balance point to start from

[tall sequoia]

yeah i'm sure

🤷

i think it's a buff overall

[fringe whale]

The fire rate reduction is also just going to make you pull the trigger and the gun not fire soooo much more often, which will feel terrible

I think it is just a nerf, the only upside is the gun ddoesn't need a 300 kill grind before being usable at least

[tall sequoia]

SVD now requires that grind

lol

[fringe whale]

There are exactly 2 buffs to the M110.

Velocity increased, from 800 to 1000
Damage increased, from 49 to 51 (so you can use a differnt barrel)

Everything else is a nerf

TTK is going up on average, and by a lot in worst case which is also becoming more likely

recoil is functionally unchanged, total amount is the same just more horizontal bias instead of verticle.

Horizontal is also just harder to mitigate than verticle so this hardly seems like a buff

[zealous oasis]

yes

those are "changes". they are not marketed to be ONLY buffs

at the risk of making a bad pun, its all a balancing act

[blazing coral]

These changes are a buff and it’s not even a question.

[fringe whale]

I mean... how is it a buff? There are exactly two buffs that are fairly small and a lot of nerfs

[zealous oasis]

was there any details in the devs stream as to when we can expect the next patch?

okay vek

how are you trying to use the M110

what role are you trying to fill with it. \

perhaps niche is a better word than role

[fringe whale]

Pointing it at poeople and shooting them at various ranges. Not sure what question you are even asking here. The recoil is not going down, the damage is going up so you can use a differnt barrel, you are getting a slightly more velocity, and you are losing a lot of ammo and fire rate

[zealous oasis]

slightly??

in what world is a 25% increase "slight"

[fringe whale]

the world where it doesn't affect much

Hitting shots was not a problem before

[zealous oasis]

at what range

[fringe whale]

0-1000m

[zealous oasis]

on moving targets?

[fringe whale]

yes, the better change there thematicly would have been increasing magazine sizes as well.

To better seperate them from sniper rifles

[zealous oasis]

im pretty sure the fire rate distinguishes them plenty already

[fringe whale]

Not really, and the fire rate got nerfed hard this patch which is going to have a much larger effect than it visually looks like due to how inputs are handled in game

gun is getting DRASTICLY worse at closer ranges

[zealous oasis]

so you think even the new 300rpm is somehow not extremely distinctly different from the bolt action fire rates?

its probably in the realm of 10x the fire rate

[fringe whale]

it is ~3x

Bolt cycle rate is like 87rpm

but you need half as many shots to kill

[blazing coral]

the recoil is absolutely going down. Vertical recoil was reduced by 60%.

[fringe whale]

And DMRs still have higher recoil than sniper rifles for some reason

[zealous oasis]

because they fire way faster

what a shocker

[fringe whale]

Horizontal recoil was increased by the same amount as verticle was reduced

effective recoil is the same

[zealous oasis]

no

they arent on the same scale

[fringe whale]

except horriozontal is less efficent to mitigate

They are >.>

[zealous oasis]

1.00 vertical recoil moves your aim many many times more than 1.00 horizontal recoil

wait

lemme edit that

better

like it never even happened

[fringe whale]

w/e you say. There is no real DMRs should be the highest recoil weapon in the game. And no reason they should have the least ammunition

[blazing coral]

they're not the highest recoil weapons in the game what are you even talking about

[zealous oasis]

i do agree that the mag reduction seems a bit harsh, especially for the Mk14, but thats neither here nor there

[fringe whale]

They literally have the highest recoild stats of all weapons in the game. The M110 is also the highest recoil weapon period

[zealous oasis]

before or after the posted changes?

[fringe whale]

before and after

[zealous oasis]

okay so, post-changes it will have the same vert recoil as the fal, approx 10% more horizontal recoil, way more damage, and almost double the velocity

seems like a pretty fair tradeoff

[fringe whale]

and a huge first shot multiplier meaning another 150% recoil compared to the FAL

While having a longer TTK with incredibly clunky input handling

[zealous oasis]

except the fal is an AR. of course its going to have less first shot recoil

[fringe whale]

why do semi auto weapons have first shot recoild AT ALL?

[zealous oasis]

probably still factors in when firing them at their max RPM

or near it

[fringe whale]

You cannot fire semi autos at max RPM without scripting reliably, and the reduction in rate of fire is a much larger reduction in fire rate as a result.

[zealous oasis]

though frankly i dont use many semi-autos anywhere near their max RPM anyway

you cannot

[fringe whale]

and first shot always applies no matter how fast you shoot

[zealous oasis]

its not even almost impossible lol

[fringe whale]

No, no one cannot. It is 1ms windows, which are much larger than super hard single frame fighting game links at 17ms

and if you mess up you cut your rate of fire in half

[blazing coral]

You’re seriously overestimating how much of an impact first shot kick has

[zealous oasis]

and there are people that play shooters pretty much robotically

[fringe whale]

First shot kick has exactly as much impact as it say? It is a multiplier on existing recoil

no one is hitting 1ms links every shot

[zealous oasis]

and if they arent?

290RPM is not significantly slower than 300

[fringe whale]

Then they either lose half thier fire rate, or inteitonally shoot slower to not fire too fast and lose large TTK

[zealous oasis]

which is why i said "or near it"

[fringe whale]

Main poiint is the rate of fire nerf is silly and is larger than it looks on paper, and I have no idea what it is even trying to fix

[zealous oasis]

the m110 is demonstrably not a dmr