Attachments - Feedback

[muted laurel]

But in Siege the differences are way clearer, instead of being such a mixed bag. Also, the grips and barrels change different parts of the stats rather than overlapping. This in particular is something I think could be "cleaner" to work with for players. It's not as simple as it being better or not though, of course.

There's also the part where not all guns have all attachments available in Siege. I think that makes a lot of sense, as you can make the guns more different that way.

[terse barn]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[night turtle]

no more debuffs (or well only very very minimal ones)
while technically the recoil of the deployed bipod got nerfed from 50% to 30% recoil reduction that doesn't matter as the before the recoil debuffs of equipping the bipod put you to 30% when deployed anyways so it really just is a buff in every single fucking stat
more dakka!!!

support might actually become my favorite class now

[velvet walrus]

pretty sure it does increase the velocity irl. longer barrel = faster velocity

[mystic iris]

it does

generally

nvm misread decrease as increase, am blind

[worn halo]

if we talking IRL that's just a barrel extension so ofc it'd increase the velocity

[harsh forge]

Never knew. 👍

[terse barn]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[regal folio]

MSR after barrel change no longer able to 1 shot beyond 1km anymore

[keen hornet]

oh shit really?

💀

[noble vapor]

yeah it can just hit headshots

[granite hatch]

There's a reason I haven't bothered playing the update yet. I'm an MSR main, and I could immediately tell this update gave exactly zero consideration to the impact it would have on the various sniper rifles

[regal folio]

I've played the game today, it's not bad in the most part, but weapon like AK5C,HK419 when using attachments, it either make the gun go very horizontal or very vertical

And Ranger barrel basically worst than long Suppressor for sniper since the damage increase is gone

SV98, MSR lose ability to 1 shot beyond 1000m without it, unless headshot

I mean, tbh, Ranger barrel is exclusive to Sniper, at least keeping it the way it is isn't that bad

[velvet walrus]

ok? that's a good thing, you're supposed to aim for the head with sniper rifles lmao

[regal folio]

Ok mister god marksman, you do you. But I'm not gonna bother trying to hit head at pixel size target

For a snipe at range beyond 1000m

And my point still stands, ranger serve no purpose now

And is still exclusive to sniper

[velvet walrus]

you can zero in at your exact range. you don't have to account for bullet drop or anything. hitting the head could not be simpler

but yeah, ranger being useless is pretty dumb

the attachment rework was very careless overall

[keen hornet]

To be fair tho, you do have zeroing and 15x to 40x scopes for that reason

[regal folio]

You think they staying still for you to shoot at?

Sadly, most of my target isn't

[jagged grail]

I'd say that's more of an issue with movement in a way
Considering how snappy and erratic you can be, even hitting people can be out of the picture if they are far enough away that they can change directions faster than the bullet takes to physically reach them

[flat blaze]

I have two questions: What do you think is an acceptable range for vertical & horizontal recoil? And when is it worth increasing (or reducing) bullet velocity?

[muted laurel]

I can handle more vertical recoil vs horizontal, so I try to minimize horizontal.

[regal folio]

Exactly

If you're not using something like M200, you can see the round travel to you more than 1 second

[regal folio]

I'd say, compensating for velocity is a instinct thing

You'll instinctively aim ahead of your target most of the time

[jagged grail]

Which tends to work in most games, but I wouldn't really say is consistent here
Most fps games have some form of inertia, even the ones with hitscan bullets, but especially so the ones with physics based projectiles
We got the physics projectiles and the wacky turn-on-a-dime movement that makes it so people that know what they're doing can be physically impossible to hit past a certain range(a range that isn't really far for most guns)

I wouldn't even say hitting them is a matter of skill, since the delay for a bullet to reach them is more than the time it takes for them to wholy reverse their momentum

[regal folio]

[jagged grail]

I don't think making snipers a one torso shot kill at long ranges would really fix it though

[flat blaze]

In my opinion, they should not have added a recoil penalty for Vert Grip and BCM Gunfighter.

[pliant haven]

Yeah, basically starting from 100m onwards, hitting a target is basically relying on them having skill issue/being lazy enough to not keep zigzagging at all times.

[noble vapor]

You can snipe with 4x sights at 2 km and hit headshots very easily without zeroing

Get to know the rifle and get a feel for the drop, I always ran Suppressor on it even before the Ranger nerf, headshots are not hard especially now that Suppressor increases velocity

[regal folio]

The problem isn't with hitting a target

It's that the target aren't gonna staying still for you

[noble vapor]

If you hit on the first shot thats how you fix it

Also within 200m its pretty much hitscan, just aim at head and shoot and you get the kill, aggressive sniping is slept on in this game

[regal folio]

I was talking about extremely long range snipe beyond 1000m

[pallid cave]

if the guy is moving perpendicular at you at full tilt, you will have to lead him even at 200m

[regal folio]

I'm sorry, but i am no 1000 hours sniper player

To hit the head at 1600m range

[pallid cave]

if the guy isn't setting up for a shot or your sightline ins't big enough, you aint hitting shit

[regal folio]

Let alone, with a mid range scope, that's impossible

Unless you're mixing it up with general snipe around 100 - 300m

[noble vapor]

honestly its not, without zeroing and using acog its right below the bottom of the chevron for 1500m

Thats assuming you are using something like the AWM

[regal folio]

AWM is 1 shot beyond 1000m

[noble vapor]

Im talking velocity

[regal folio]

I see

[noble vapor]

With MSR on the Test Range standing on the Platform its to the first mildot on the dot for the Headshot at 1000m

Assuming you are using Hunter or Long Suppressor

No zeroing used either, this game is a joke for even having it

[regal folio]

It helps actually, if you're doing crossmap sniping

I don't really know the purpose of MSR as it currently is

[noble vapor]

It really should be removed from the game, zeroing, actually learn the drop on a rifle like BF3

[regal folio]

I mean, it's not like it'll effect the game in a negative way, so I don't see the reason why it should be removed

Unless you're being frustrated about getting shot at all the time in long range sniper battle

[noble vapor]

The issue is that this game does not have the bullet drop to necessitate something like that though, BF4 sniping was different for that reason since drop started very early and was heavy, this game does not have it

[noble vapor]

The main reason to use 4x is to prevent scope glint, while they shine like christmas trees otherwise

[regal folio]

I know, but again, does it really necessary to be removed????

[noble vapor]

I think it would allow them to balance snipers a little more removing it, besides it would make records feel that much more engaging. Honestly they should remove just kill distance and make it a headshot marksman distance instead, that would be better overall for the competitive snipers out there.

Distance should only matter if accuracy would be involved like only headshot

[regal folio]

fine, you have your own opinion, i have my own opinion, I'll respect that ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[worn halo]

competitive snipers

[velvet walrus]

iunno about removing it completely, but im of the firm opinion that medium scopes should not be allowed to zero in

if you wanna be able to do it, you should be hit with a hefty drawback like glint. otherwise learn the bullet drop

[muted laurel]

I don't think that's a fair tradeoff. It would be more fair to have more scope sway and requiring you hold your breath like with the long range scopes. That way it's equal to long range scopes, only trading less zoom for no glint.

[velvet walrus]

less zoom really isn't an issue though

ive gotten 1km range kills with medium scopes

[muted laurel]

My record is 1.6km with a medium scope haha

I absolutely agree

More zoom is necessary in a few cases where you're doing a sniper battle between two ends of the map and both sides are behind sandbag batricades shooting through the little holes

I think a rebalancing between long zoom vs medium optics is needed for sure

But when everything can be zeroed it ends up feeling unfair when you can't do that on specifically snipers

[pliant haven]

Just remove glint and make long scopes not work while moving

Glint is a stupid and buggy mechanic anyway and long range sniping with medium scopes is perfectly possible but just pointlessly annoying

Forcing snipers to stand still with long scopes and giving them some heavier ADS time penalties would be more than enough to let countersnipers do their thing

[round parrot]

the distance you can zero your gun should be based on the optic you are using, not the gun itself

a medium scope should not be able to zero to 1200m

500 at most

depending on the zoom of the scope

I'm all for removing glint and replacing it with some other downside for snipers

[velvet walrus]

i think glint is fine, players should be warned that there's someone looking right at them. but it needs to be a LOT tighter. you should only be able to see the glint if you're in their crosshairs

[pliant haven]

So you think medium scopes should also get glint?

[velvet walrus]

i think medium scopes should not be able to zero in/have extremely limited zeroing, so you have to choose between being harder to spot and long range engagements being easier. the main issue with scopes right now is that med scopes are the best of both worlds, you're both hard to spot and can easily kill people from super long ranges

[muted laurel]

This one is fair. As much as I love headshotting fellow campers from 1300+ meters away with an acog, it feels pretty unfair. Zeroing being based on engagement distances, having to deal with bullet drop if you want to go beyond that range, is totally fair.

[round parrot]

Makes more sense too

Cause irl you zero through the scope

[muted laurel]

Yeah. Also a big penalty for moving while scoped with long range optics makes a ton of sense. Whether that's letting you move and aim, but reducing your move speed way more, or just forcing you to unscope while moving.

But if long range gets that nerf, they need a buff in the form of way less glint.

[round parrot]

Glint is definitely extremely exaggerated right now

It should only show to the person that's being aimed at

Not everyone in the fucking game

And a 6x scope shouldn't glint as much as a 40x

[velvet walrus]

yeah, i don't think it should be completely removed, but it needs to be far less detrimental

[regal folio]

Making glint appears when you scoping in for too long?

[muted laurel]

It should just grow and shrink depending on how close they are aiming to you, so only those in their field of view can see it. Shouldn't be a complex thing to implement either.

I wouldn't be opposed to medium scopes having a tiny tiny glint too, just with a limited range of visibility.

[regal folio]

That sounds like a great idea

Because of how the glint works right now, basically if you aim at the certain direction, it'll show the glint to all players on that direction

Not the closest target you're aiming at

[pallid cave]

which would be fine if the angle was a lot more acute and not what feels like 180 degrees

[worn halo]

just let go for zoom button for 0.0001 and you'll be fine

[pliant haven]

Of course it's not complex to implement. Doing it in a way that is responsive enough to quickly update what targets see after a sudden turn from the sniper while not overwhelming the server with (# of snipers)*(# of targets in their FoV) extra calculations per second? Probably why it's not happening any time soon.

[muted laurel]

I think it's already doing it, just with a way too wide angle.

If it were done client side it would work fine with no extra server load

[regal folio]

Just make the glint slowly fading away

[hidden cairn]

Yeah, I always thought it'd be nice if only people in view of the scope could see the glint. Would make longer range scopes a bit better when you don't want to be just fighting other snipers the whole match.
It's kind of annoying how right now if you pick a scope with more zoom you still draw as much attention but have less awareness if some other sniper is looking at you or not.

[hidden cairn]

I would love to test how it'd be if there was no glint but snipers had way more muzzle flash and their shots had some kind of smoke tracer. So you're basically unnoticeable until you fire, making you think twice before shooting, instead of being in a hurry before someone spots your glint and domes you

[pallid cave]

make those little rotating things turn on when you scope facing one way, would make them useful and might be an ok bandaid fix

[muted laurel]

They do the smoke/vapor trails in Siege. It really helps with understanding where shots are coming from. It would be chaos if everyone had that, but it makes a LOT of sense for snipers IMO. Whether it's for ALL snipers or just for high velocity attachments, I dunno

[spark cairn]

Bipod is good but the problem with the bipod is that they're so annoying to deploy, please fix.
Also pls add magnifiers for red dots, specifically for bipodded MGs. Downside is that they're slower to switch than simply using a top mount/canted RDS but they allow you to use a bipod/maintain height over bore.

[night turtle]

just use a slip?

[regal folio]

The deployment criteria of the bipod is very restrictive, you really need your bipod to be in contact with the surface, or else it won't work

That's how bad it is, because crouching over a elevated object isn't a option, the only likely scenario for bipod to be deployed is proning

Which put you on a instant disadvantage

Unless introduced the "Mounting/deploying" mechanic where you can mount the weapon on the object at cost of you become stationary and unable to move

[pliant haven]

It works perfectly fine for the Ultimax

The M249 on the other hand is extremely janky

And people have tested different sights before which also seem to affect the ease with which it makes contact

So it is indeed very janky and unreliable but not uniformly so

[regal folio]

Overall, it's still unreliable, but it doesn't put massive penalties anymore

Like i said, unless adding "[Press This Key] Deploy Bipod" I don't think it'll solve the problems

[pliant haven]

Given the way it works quite consistently with the Ultimax I feel like just adjusting the models to give the bipod a similar positioning could be a simpler solution

[regal folio]

I've heard people want support to be able to build a stationary machine gun, so i got some inspiration from that

Mounting a LMG/LSG on a player built cover or windows

Or some ledge

[regal folio]

Or this also works

Make a Bipod longer

[spark cairn]

I like being able to use a 1x on a bipod too. The downside would be that it would take longer to switch between 1x and magnified, which I feel is fair, but you get to use the bipod while in 1x still.

It's something Insurgency does without problems, and it's a far more sweaty game so imo there's no design reason why they shouldn't include that option

[spark cairn]

Also making the bipod longer would make taller ledges unusable for bipods. IMO the only good solution is to just make the bipod more lenient in general. I don't think Insurgency is this strict with bipods

[pallid cave]

Put bipod on the front of the gun instead of where the grip goes to. It doesn’t help anything that it’s a third of the way up the model.

[regal folio]

I know, but bipod in this game is just too short

[pallid cave]

A longer bipod would be needed, an attach function would make it useable. The ability to brace without a bipod would make it so that the higher ledges would work fine.

[spark cairn]

just make the bipod more forgiving. insurgency is the more "realistic" game and even it's not this picky about their bipods because they recognize that they're a pain in the ass

[flat blaze]

The barrel attachments have become useless, they have more downsides than advantages!

[round parrot]

no they dont lmfao

[limpid cedar]

for some guns yeah but not all

[gilded gazelle]

small UI tweak suggestion:
make the little text on the loadout screen that says you have a different appearance for new weapon, new attachment, or new camo.
or on the loadout screen make clicking where it says 'new' take you directly to the new item.

I'm probabbly not the only person who compulsively checks what the new thing is, especially when I'm using a weapon that's new to me and I check every attachment to see if I like it.

[gilded gazelle]

the lower magnification medium scopes (most notably the Slip) is annoyingly far down the unlock tree for so many guns. Basically only the F2000 has a scope that operates at anything close to that without needing hundreds of kills. Nearly every other medium scope is too powerful for most mid range combat. For guns that excel at that range (SG550 for example) you have to get quite a ways with optics that are outside what would be desired.

[hidden cairn]

Yeah, really hope they'd add more 2x scopes to fix this problem and the lack of variety in the 2x category

[cunning apex]

A 1.5 or two wouldn't go amiss, either.

[hidden cairn]

True

[severe lichen]

After the rework there's no way to improve the vertical recoil by any significant amount without fucking up the horizontal
I get the whole trade off theme and in case of flash hider its fine to trade some vert for horizontal since that means you just need to pull down a bit more
The reverse doesnt work though as horizontal is rng so why the hell would I choose vertical grip on anything other than evo
As a result guns like aug have lost good 50 meters of effective range
Point being swap the horizontal drawbacks for smth else so that there are options to improve vert recoil without significantly exacerbating horizontal

[pliant haven]

Yeah overall I like the direction of the rework but the way both types of recoil have been treated symmetrically isn't great

Also, long suppressor giving both the best stealth and velocity just feels broken

[granite hatch]

i havent played with the update yet; does the long suppressor still significantly increase recoil?

[pliant haven]

Yeah but it feels pretty manageable

[somber tree]

can we have flir scope default mode the non thermal one

[muted laurel]

What do you mean? You can turn FLIR on and off.

[somber tree]

i know i just want it to be off as default from the start

instead of its on by default from start

[severe lichen]

Most people wont know its a thermal scope then
Most people cant read the tooltip on the left saying press shift for speedboost
So leave it as is

[pliant haven]

Sad but true lol

[regal folio]

Flir will be better if the reticle isn't glowing

[pallid cave]

would be better if it was smaller

[regal folio]

No, the problem was the reticle itself is glowing, which make it hard to aim at distance, the reticle looks fat because of the glows

[fossil wolf]

I only use FLIR at night.

[pallid cave]

turning off the thermal, its definitely very large and blocks alot of vision

[somber tree]

i mean they could put thermals instead of flir as name but people bot seeing then tool tip is a fair point

[muted laurel]

I mostly do too. It comes in handy for dense trees and bushes sometimes though.

[cunning apex]

I've been using the FLIR with the bipod ultimax and it's really helpful for forested maps

[limpid cedar]

@timber pond did you work on attachments ?

[timber pond]

❓

[limpid cedar]

I heard you worked on the recent attachments patch ?

[timber pond]

No idea

[limpid cedar]

😵‍💫 I mean if you worked, you would know

[cinder veldt]

ox1gen acting dumb, maybe developed some type of short term memory loss

F

[limpid cedar]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1175402209526169620

[silver nova]

can we talk about how ridiculously small the suppressors look on snipers?

this is the rem700

[pallid cave]

weapons need attachments tailored to them, the current ones just do not fit every weapon system

[silver nova]

what if i told you that they do make some attachments tailored to their guns?

if not, WHY DO THESE LOOK SO DIFFERENT?

just put the suppressor on the guns and switch between them to see how they change

the long supressor

short should have a change too

like, this is ridiculous

but this looks good

oh look, similar gun yet different supressor

[worn halo]

yeah wtf

[regal folio]

Some muzzle devices can be used in many different guns, and sometimes in different caliber

But the problem is that some aren't scales..

Like muzzle devices on groza is comically large

I kinda wish they make it similar to Phantom Forces, but they can fix this later

[hidden cairn]

Yeah, they started fixing this in one patch, changed a few that looked goofy for the gun's size and then just kinda forgot to do the rest of the guns

[worn halo]

animu gurl pfp UwU

[sick totem]

https://tenor.com/view/mrow-self-control-discord-typing-meow-gif-27360864

[wide sail]

It feels like Gun balance in general needs some reworking to adjust for the attachments rework.
As someone who mainly enjoyed playing specific guns like AUG and G36C with long barrel to lower the BTK, The big attachments rework update ruined that by taking away long barrel's damage increase, and I've barely played since. G36C is still a good gun without the long barrel damage increase, but AUG is unusable without it (even with LB dmg+, AUG was still very offmeta, just fun to use)

[harsh forge]

Aug is fine without depending on long barrel. Can't run and gun. It's a different play style.

[pallid cave]

I don't think I ever ran the AUG with a long barrel personally

[harsh forge]

I didn't use lb on any gun. People just need to get one more bullet w/o it and the other guns aren't as gimped without it since there was little benefit anyway

[silver nova]

Brosky how many can feel 100ms difference?

[harsh forge]

Enough people to complain about it when the patch came out. 🤷‍♂️.

[pallid cave]

its just a placebo effect. if the changes weren't listed at all noone would even notice

[night turtle]

fr

[mystic iris]

don't have to directly feel something for it to matter.

[sick mural]

what is this lol

[round parrot]

holosight

[sick mural]

why he so

skinny

[worn halo]

ikr

[regal folio]

There are many type of holo, but this one in particular doesn't seems like any I've seen before

The one i knows are EOTECH 552 and EOTECH XPS2

[sick mural]

it's like a squished malnourished eotech

[alpine lagoon]

The weapon glint change to snipers is killing the entire class. Having a glint on far scopes is totally fine but when you are playing short distance sniping adding glint to scopes is sorry a no go.

It completely removes any fun in stealth playing with that class whatsoever because with the new ping system once you ADS you glint and players will ping you and you are dead.

I ask to revert this change for the reasons above.

Sniper were already extremly easy to find, especially after the foliage update.

[worn halo]

buuuut they added battle rifles to recon so it's fine

[alpine lagoon]

I feel like someone was just butthurt that he got killed so this change got introduced.

The whole reason to play a sniper is to play stealthy.

Why would i play a class where the weapons drawback is already slowreload, slow ads, slow running (so limiting my movements and making me stationary) when i just put up a target up my arse every time i ads ?

That change makes zero sense and just feels someone who is close to the devs is mad because he couldnt spot snipers in time.

[alpine lagoon]

WTF. What has the AK15 todo with recon? -> Other feedback channel but really, lot of recent changes are absolutely garbo and ruin the fun and possibilities this game provided. I feel like people are just ment to blatently run into other enemies without any tactics whatsoever.

Also in realworld snipers do not glint at all.

I'd highly appreciate if the devs would explain themselfes why there is a need for this change, where it stems from and what benefit the change provides to the overall gameplay.

[pallid cave]

they do without specific equipment, or watching the sun/light sources

[alpine lagoon]

Wrong. Battle Sniper lenses are usually coated and do not reflect sunlight.

[pallid cave]

i.e specific equipment

coatings, lens covers, ards things like that

[alpine lagoon]

We are playing soldiers who are able to pick a weapon, not hello kitty.

There is nothing special in lense coating for military grade weapons

Argument lacks foundation. sry.

[pallid cave]

man you really don't know much about military grade then lol

spec ops or dedicated snipers maybe. Marksman for an INf fireteam? not so much.

even the Ards are still rare and those things are old

[worn halo]

i agree

[alpine lagoon]

I had my fair share in afghanistan. Thanks. Other then that. Not the right place for this kind of discussion. Lets keep it on-topic.

[worn halo]

anime girl pfp UwU

[velvet walrus]

what the fuck are they doing lmao

[worn halo]

that's what i also wanna know

[rose geode]

I usually keep quiet while just observing the changes the devs bring toward the game. The medium scope glint change is something I do not understand nor I see why this would make the game better as a whole. What is the reasoning behind this? Please do not implement this into the game.

[muted laurel]

Only for sniper rifles

[muted laurel]

Expanding the "Recon" part of the recon class I bet. Recon does not mean Sniper, but that's all people use that class for. They probably want the Recon class to be more capable for actual recon for their squads.

[rose geode]

I'm sure there are much better ways to incentivize the usage of other recon resources. Nerfing and/or pretty much deleting a completely fine way of playing is not. Look at it this way, by adding glint to medium scopes it will drop the sniper usage by a lot. Arguably the sniper usage will be close to 0. And then alas, we have the same scenario you mentioned but reversed.

[alpine lagoon]

Will take a week until everyone cries that DMRs are so op and guess what. DMRs are not medics with SMGs so there will be the next nerf.

[rose geode]

With the way things are going lately I doubt we last a week. The game's population is too low.

A message for the devs: a loud minority speaks louder than a quiet majority. I don't know who is complaining about mid range scopes having no glint on snipers but I assure you it's pure skill issue

Do I use mid range scopes on snipers? Yes. However I do play with other classes too and albeit I do die to snipers every once in a while, it's really not that hard to seek cover against recon classes. Hell, I die to a magnitude of 4 or 5x to mobile classes than to snipers.

I don't intend to turn this into a rant and spout bullcrap left and right, but I genuinely love this game. Seeing it die pains me and I hope you find a better solution.

[somber schooner]

I've seen people raising issues about sniper medium scopes for months. The issue is that there is currently no incentive to use a long scope, since all it does is give away your position, and snipers would rather remain hidden. Medium scopes were always an upgrade. Now, they give you up either way, so you might as well use what is appropriate for the range.

[alpine lagoon]

I never had a problem with that either. Sometimes a sniper kills me 2 times, or 3 yea. But them i know his position and he wont be there for the time beeing. Problem dealt with.

[alpine lagoon]

That is the exact intent of snipers: To stay hidden.

Long range scopes do still have a reason. Just limit visibility without sniper scope to a few hundret meters and just dont render players for snipers without sniper scopes

Just because people dont use X doesnt mean that you should ruin everything else of the class to force people do what you want them to do.

Otherwise we could change every aspect of the game.

I find it problematic to change core mechanics of the game without telling the players what your intentions are.

[regal folio]

Does anyone realized that medium scope glint on sniper will make DMR a even stronger Meta?

[alpine lagoon]

I already called it. #1138534897246556301 message Just sit back and wait for the backlash 😄

[regal folio]

DMR is already as broken as it is, with sniper mid range scope glint, people are gonna switch to DMR which is even more "annoying" if you think medium scope sniper was

I'd rather have a glint timer where scoping for too long, the glint will appear for long range one

And the glint will slowly fade away, so you can't exploit it by releasing right click for milliseconds to reset the timer

With right setup, you'll make your DMR vert recoil go lower than 1

The only DMR that can do that currently are MK20

[somber schooner]

Sure, let's put hidden snipers in milsim mode. But for casual mode, people need to see where they are.

[regal folio]

I honestly died to DMR more than sniper itself

Because how quick the follow up shots were

[alpine lagoon]

If you do not see the snipers then you gotta get your eyes checked. Its seriously so easy to spot them.

Not ment offensive though. IMHO snipers are really, really easy to spot

[somber schooner]

Then why complain that glint gives you away if you're already so easy to spot?

Why do you want to stay hidden?

[regal folio]

Sniper Doesn't always one shot you, you either watch tracers or look at damage feedback

But sniper doesn't have to be easier to spot from what already is

If so, what's the point of using sniper? Use DMR then

and it's pretty much twice, if not thrice more effective now because of the mid range scope nerf

[alpine lagoon]

Because sniper already has disadvantage over any other weapon in ADS,DPS,Speed, Reload and Movement?

The sole reason for snipers is to engage from hidden spots they carefully have chosen to atack the enemy from where they dont expect to be attacked from

Besides using sniper scopes for 800+m engagements

[somber schooner]

But their spots aren't hidden, they're super easy to see, and if you can't spot them then you gotta get your eyes checked, right?

So glint doesn't help or harm because snipers are already super easy to see

[regal folio]

^

You'll ended up making it worst

[hidden cairn]

Making medium scopes have glint doesn't make me want to use longe range scopes, it makes me want to not play sniper. The answer shouldn't be to nerf medium range, but buff long range.

I'd really like to try removing glint in general and just giving snipers a bigger muzzle flash and a longer lasting tracer, so you can be stealthy up until you shoot. If it doesn't work just revert it and figure out how to make glint work.

[worn halo]

animu gurl pfp UwU

[hidden cairn]

This is the third you said this to me man lol

[worn halo]

tbh i dont really know the ppl here
i just like cute anime girls in general

[hidden cairn]

understandable

[worn halo]

also ye glint kinda suck in general and not even realistic or makes any sense

should just find another way of balancing snipers

[pallid cave]

give us a hollywood muzzle flash, distinct rifle sounds, and an SRS style bullet trail instead of glint maybe?

[spark ridge]

Yeah I'm just not going to play sniper if this gets pushed out, was fun while it lasted

[pallid cave]

I mean there is no "sniper" class

[mystic iris]

what about the only class that has access to snipers

[pallid cave]

ehhhh

good enough I guess

[regal folio]

And remember, DMR already exists

If they push this out, it won't completely kill sniper, but expect even more DMR user

[tranquil glacier]

i think the extended mags on the guns make you to slow

[worn halo]

and give too much recoil most of the time

there's no need for that

[regal folio]

Yep, looks like they're pushing Medium Scope glint no matter what

Though it has been toned down, I don't think it'll do, a distant enemies beyond 200m will definitely see a glint as soon as we turning our face on thier direction

Even if you didn't meant to shoot someone beyond 200m

[worn halo]

i mean even if they tone it down it's still better than no change at all

[regal folio]

Unless they made it so that the glint appears on the person on direct line of fire

To narrow down the glint exposure

[worn halo]

YES

pls

[regal folio]

So recon didn't get shot from somewhere else because of the 180° glint angle

Limit the angle of it

Like, make a cone start from the rifle scope, the cone get wider as the distance became further

Like, Make it so as long as enemy players wasn't within the cone, they won't see the glint

And make the glint gradually became more intense as the sniper slowly aiming at you

[worn halo]

YES PLS

[regal folio]

Make it so each scope have different angle of the cone, the higher the magnification, the narrower the cone become

Or just make it that, every enemies inside your scope sees the glint

This not only make it that, sniper won't be instantly target as soon as you ADS in the direction they're facing (which is 180°) but also helps other players determine if they're gonna get shot at or not because only player inside the cone/scope can see the glint intensities as the Crosshair/reticle getting close to them

Though I don't see this being implemented (maybe/maybe not) the truth is as clear as day

DMR is gonna be Meta

[muted laurel]

I think the cone should be slightly larger than what you can see, but the glint is at full brightness only when you're in the scope's view. The glint grows and gets brighter as you get closer to the scope's view.

[regal folio]

Ik, but that was a second option

[regal folio]

Oh god, IT'S HAPPENING

[worn halo]

no it's not >:(

[regal folio]

Wdym it's not, this is like what i want it to be

[worn halo]

idk am bored

[regal folio]

Still no ranger barrel changes tho

[worthy lantern]

When will stuff like this be fixed? I heard Oki saying the RPK would be fixed but no word on any of this other stuff. Pretty much every single gun in the game has a problem like this.

[regal folio]

You're referring to attachment scaling?

[somber tree]

yeah

[silver nova]

man, suppressor scalling is depressing

best looking weapon with supressor is the M4 and only the M4 rn

all the rest look ULTRA depressing

[timber pond]

https://tenor.com/view/small-petite-tiny-wee-chandler-bing-gif-15401586

[worthy lantern]

You think THAT'S bad, look at the image of the vector I shared...

[silver nova]

yea its scaled terribly

you also have this

[worthy lantern]

Oh the issue is just with the optics. The suppressor is fine.

Oh the lights also are fucking tiny

Grips too. Actually what's completely bizarre is that the grips on the Vector are microscopic but the optics have gigantism

[muted laurel]

You have to remember you're actually looking through the optics in-game

So you have to make sure the optics are scaled in a way that lets that work in-game

So while a realistic implementation would have a red dot look more small, like one of the canted red dot sights, that's not the intended gameplay

[worthy lantern]

...That's a load of crap. The dot is still a dot.

[tight anvil]

Finally you guys the bipod on the m24. Thanks! I love it now!

[silver nova]

[silver nova]

#dev-wip message

thank you

next to fix are the under barrel attachments

[regal folio]

So, are we just gonna leave the ranger barrel as Long suppressor alternative before you get it?

Because right now, it pretty much serve next to no purpose with more downside

[fossil wolf]

Long and ranger barrels got shafted by the update. Heavy barrel made it out as the SE-5 of muzzle devices.

[regal folio]

Now It's either you use,
Flash Hider
VAMB
Heavy

Other than that, you'll use others because you didn't unlock them

[fossil wolf]

I’ve seen Comps as well, I’m guessing because some guns like SMGs and PDWs don’t have heavy barrel.

[fossil wolf]

Can’t forget suppressors.

[regal folio]

Suppressor is exceptional, because short and heavy act differently

Short increase vert

Long increase horiz

The one thing it does the same is hide flash completely

[fossil wolf]

Best muzzles: Flash, VAMB, Heavy/Comp, Long/Short Suppressors
Best underbarrel: Shift Short, Angled, Vert, URK, BCM, Stabil, bipod.

At least the underbarrel has variety, depending on the weapon in question.

[regal folio]

Pretty much how it goes nowadays

HK419 really hurt the most so far

Because of it equal V/H recoil

You either harshly sacrificed one stat for another

And with high rate of fire, that amount of recoil felt is amplified

The only viable choice is recoil neutral attachment like Comp/Heavy muzzle and SE-5/Stubby/B25 grip

[fossil wolf]

For me, attachments go as follows:
More V than H? VAMB/Vert/both
More H than V? Flash/BCM/both
Both the same? SE5/Heavy/Comp
DMR? Heavy + Stabil/Bipod
CQB? Shift Short/Angled/URK + muzzle of choice

[regal folio]

Here's fun fact, there's 2 setups that have identical recoil stats on FAL, the only main difference being reload speed

I remember which combination, and it'll took me a while to unlock FAL again

[worn halo]

tru
needs a buff

[regal folio]

Yeah, like, tone down the horizontal recoil a bit more

[severe lichen]

I just slap urk and flash hider on everything, sometimes going with suppressor
Vertical recoil is never an issue and other attachments give too little benefits for how much they fuck the gun up

[worn halo]

either that or tone down the Vrecoil

so we can actually use shit that reduce either recoils

right now anything u use for that shit has too much downsides

[regal folio]

One of these recoil has to be toned down

[mystic iris]

HK419 is a good gun, it doesn’t need a recoil buff.

[fossil wolf]

419 is definitely the “URK/Comp/Tac” sort of gun.

[harsh forge]

Hits hard and fast. Its recoil is valid

[worn halo]

too much Hrecoil

also "good gun" as in it renders weapons like mp5 and pp19 and maybe some pdws kinda pointless while this thing exists

[tranquil glacier]

the extended mags are to slow with a lot of the guns i mean have you seen many people with a ex mag

i just think making this stat lost little lower on the guns which are slower with the ex mags

have you seen the honey bagers ex mag 3 more bullets bro for such a big debuff

[fossil wolf]

Famas:

[tranquil glacier]

fames a good gun

[mystic iris]

Famas would be fine if it weren’t for its mag size

Just a worse HK really

[fossil wolf]

The MP5 is far more controllable than the 419, so you’ll probably land your hits better.

[worn halo]

lmao true
try picking honeybadger after using famas for a while

it's a direct downgrade in any meaningful way

the ext mag on honeybadger gives u 3 more rounds but fucks ur gun in every other stat

idc if ext mag on famas fucks ur gun too
but at least it gives you 10 more rounds to fuck around with :/

[tranquil glacier]

thats y i said that needs to be changed

[fossil wolf]

It absolutely does.

[tranquil glacier]

3 bullets wow what the hell

[worn halo]

also u get 3.07s reload time for famas
but u get 3.76s on honeybadger

guess which one was meant for cqc fights and close encounters? :D

[tranquil glacier]

does anyone else think the ex mags give to much of a debuff in speed

[fossil wolf]

And the FAMAS has a better damage drop-off too.

The only good thing the HB does is have decent stats with a suppressor.

[tranquil glacier]

i find the hb really good if its a 1v1

or even 1v2

but thats all

thats y the ex mag on it needs a buff

y only 3 bullets but a huge downgrade

[worn halo]

they give too much of a debuff in EVERYTHING

[tranquil glacier]

thats y i say give all them a buff so there's more types that people will acully use

i use the FAL with ex gunfighter and flash hider

for a 0.85 speed

then its 1.00 with norm and fast

[worn halo]

btw Oki doesn't even read any of this

there's no point

he only checks Suggestions

[tranquil glacier]

i know

whats the point of having this if their not going to cheak

[worn halo]

i know right

[tranquil glacier]

is there a suggestions?

i dont see it

[mystic iris]

They do

There is a feedback team for that purpose

Suggestions is the only one he references directly because… they’re suggestions. The feedback threads aren’t about some specific thing that might be changed

[velvet walrus]

"feedback team"

im fairly convinced that it's a myth and none of the feedback actually gets forwarded

because if it does exist, man, that's fucking embarrassing. they should all be ashamed

[regal folio]

The only bearable EX mag is AUG EX mag

[velvet walrus]

counterpoint: FAL

[regal folio]

Who use fal beyond 50m?

Oh wait

What about the horizontal????

Helloooo?

[cunning apex]

ACR quick-b mag

[regal folio]

I wouldn't regard it as a extendo, but hey, it's decent

[velvet walrus]

it's not that hard?

and you get the 2nd best TTK in the whole game

32 rounds is hell of a lot more than 20

[regal folio]

That's for you

[velvet walrus]

yeah

it takes practice getting used to, but once you're good with the FAL, it's really manageable

[regal folio]

I'll keep my reload speed and horizontal recoil, thanks

[velvet walrus]

i'l keep my +50% ammo so i can topscore, thanks

[regal folio]

If i really wanted to go top score, I'd use something else tbh

[velvet walrus]

different strokes for different cocks

[regal folio]

Facts

[mystic iris]

Most of the significant changes to the game that weren’t new maps or map reworks have been suggested in these threads I’m pretty sure

[velvet walrus]

sniper trails? player ping wallhacks? an attachment that pings players for you? medium scope glint? pinging players while down? removal of map voting roulette?

none of those have been suggested in these threads. in fact, when it came to stuff like medium scope glint, the feedback threads were unanimously against it

which is kind of a fucking issue, isn't it?

when you make a stupid change like adding medium scope glint, or removing map voting roulette, and everyone in the feedback threads is like "hey, that's dumb as fuck, don't do that"

and then you proceed to go ahead with it anyway and completely ignore the feedback threads, there's clearly a problem

whoever is supposed to be reading through these threads and relaying feedback, either straight up doesn't exist, or is doing their job hilariously poorly

[mystic iris]

That is why I said most... of late it has been less so

[mystic iris]

Or Oki is just ignoring them, because he doesn't have to do what the feedback says

He will act on feedback from the players when he wants to and won't where he does not

[velvet walrus]

and how has that been working out, huh?

[mystic iris]

ok-ish, I guess

a couple of things I just don't know why he did them

most of them have been good

[velvet walrus]

cope

[past mesa]

35 rounder bids thy welcome

[velvet walrus]

i think it'd be interesting if some attachments modified damage fall-off

either reduced the damage-fall off as an upside, or made it harsher as a downside

it'd maybe give a niche to some of the currently unusable attachments

[mystic iris]

imo it should just be a function of velocity

Maybe with damage per bullet taken into account as well

[worn halo]

yeah we need attachments that change the damage/range/ROF

they don't have to be on all guns

or change those stats equally on all guns

but we need them

[night turtle]

imagine a vector with a suppressor on it (1440 rpm )

[loud sand]

one thing im glad is gone are attachments that change damage, fck that, its either meaningless +1 dmg that does nothing but has many drawbacks or is a complete weapon changer, nothing in between, just no, for the damage range yea, that would be cool, long barrel for example should increase it

[silver nova]

on some weapons it decreased kill requirement by 1 bullet

snipers could 1 body shot in general

i can safely say snipers felt a bigger hit, but it was good for frontline players

now they can survive a shot from 1000m+ if it is a body shot

[loud sand]

which imo should not be a thing, damage is the core of weapon's performance, tweaking that means a balance hell, AK74, L86 among other guns would be so OP if there was any attachment that would increase damage, and no, guns should not be balanced around attachments, for snipers, well, they should simply buff their dmg across the board so u'd have that ranger barrel's old benefits already built in the gun

[silver nova]

at any moment i disagreed with your statement

if you read again

i stated facts

no agreement nor disagreement

[loud sand]

me too? like bruh

i havent attecked you or anything, just stated why there should not be attachments that increase dmg

and what i think about snipers

[silver nova]

sure

tbh, long range sniping was too easy with ranger barrel

[velvet walrus]

idk, i don't miss the damage attachments. it made for a very unhealthy meta where guns were not allowed to have 32 or 33 damage, because they'd be overtuned with LB, or omega underwhelming without it

but ROF attachments or range/damage fall-off attachments i think would be great

[loud sand]

RoF is ehhh really tricky, but could be cool if balanced right, but yea dmg range defo should be affected by some attachments

PP19 with long barrel maybe could be a little bit better if it would increase the range, cuz rn i dont see a reason to use this weapon, but im kinda contradicting myself rn, cuz i didnt want guns to be balanced around attachments, and now im talking about pp19 being finally decent if there was something to boost its range

[velvet walrus]

i think like, +50 rate of fire, in exchange for a hefty recoil/velocity/both penalty would be interesting. or the other way around, a lot less recoil for a slightly slower TTK

the issue with the damage attachments is that meeting important thresholds becomes the name of the game. letting a gun kill with 3 shots instead of 4 is really, really fucking strong, and guns either needed to be balanced around that, or the whole interaction had to be deleted

[mystic iris]

It isn’t as though it’s an issue that can’t be worked around

The only real problem it poses is when certain attributes of the guns sort of have to be fixed for consistency with real life or whatever

[velvet walrus]

the work around was to not let any weapons have damage values that would let them cross thresholds with LB

which was fucking stupid

hence why they deleted the damage bonus

[mystic iris]

Well… it worked

[velvet walrus]

okay?

it was still fucking stupid. it's far better for weapons to be allowed to deal 32 or 33 damage and be able to deal with armor better

[mystic iris]

Almost all of them crossed thresholds, there were just like 2 that mattered so much they needed to be avoided

[pallid cave]

made some guns great, and was entirely useless on most. if you say that worked, alright.

[mystic iris]

It was only entirely useless on the scar-H

[velvet walrus]

you could literally not have a gun with 32 damage because it'd be OP with LB, or useless without it

that was not okay

[mystic iris]

Or just not have LB for that gun

Like most guns

[velvet walrus]

oh so let's just make so a few specific guns don't have specific attachments

[pallid cave]

lots of guns didn't break a threshold to lower by a bullet, other wise just tak the other damage increase barrel for the same thing with generally less down sides except vert

[velvet walrus]

im sure that'll be great

[mystic iris]

Not a few specific ones. Half the guns in the game already lacked them

And still do

[velvet walrus]

which ones?

bipod/weapon class specific attachments do not count

[mystic iris]

There are a ton of thresholds. Scar-H was the only one that didn’t break any at all

[mystic iris]

All the SMGs and most of the old carbines and PDWs I guess. And all the sidearms

Apart from PP-19

[velvet walrus]

what attachments do they lack?

only one i can think of is PP2K lacking most barrel attachments

[mystic iris]

Long barrels

[loud sand]

yea its kinda strange that all smgs apart from pp19 dont have long and heavy barrels, also why pp2k does not have muzzles, only suppressors

[regal folio]

I need suppressor for Scorpion

All i ask for it

[fossil wolf]

Granted, but only the Short Suppressor

[regal folio]

😭

[night turtle]

[silver nova]

at least they are similar in size now

would be cool if it was a lil bigger, but at least it looks like a suppressor now

the long suppressor is not actually, hmm, long (long on left, short on right)

should be thin vs fat suppressor lmao

yup, can confirm, long suppressor actually is not long

[silver nova]

about this: it was actively made look worse on the M4, thank you for your consideration

suppressors are now too grey, and some were scaled down when they were fine

i'm sounding annoying but aesthetics is important, it is only scaling up and down and coloring

[regal folio]

It's getting better, Poggers

[worthy lantern]

Was looking forward to attachments getting fixed but now the long and short are backwards. At least the now short suppressor looks halfway decent, but functionally it's worse. And the "long" suppressor is barely any better looking than before, still more a barrel extension than suppressor.

Time to wait months again for any change

[pallid cave]

how big do you think suppresors are?

many of them are barely larger than the barrels they are attached to.

[fossil wolf]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1184315504349950072

[raw hazel]

The target detector (and 3D spotting as a whole) are a little too strong. Autospotting players with virtually no cost, it's a no brainer.

[worthy lantern]

Yeah and they're pretty much never the exact same damn size as the barrel.

[pallid cave]

seen plenty exactly like that. they just do different jobs.

[fossil wolf]

I know there’s talk of making it impossible to ping those carrying weapons equipped with suppressors.

[granite hatch]

Would sure like to see such a suppressor. Doesnt really seem to me like such a thin suppressor would actually do much of anything other than add a bit of weight to the front of your gun. Maybe a really stupid way of reducing muzzle flip, I guess?

[pallid cave]

it controls the gasses, not really sound, you notice it when you are near soft ground, mostly for sniper rifles and similar fired from a prone posistion

[granite hatch]

So it takes the idea of a linear comp to the extreme?

[regal folio]

I want to remind you that weapon flash in this game is extremely bright and very exaggerated (flash hider doesn't actually hide flash from your enemies, only suppressor does) as soon as you shoot, you're instantly becoming a target

I pretty much running Suppressor on anything except most Battle Rifles

[harsh forge]

AsVal still has some flash and isn't the most quiet based on the gun noise, which is 200 vs long suppressor 180

[granite hatch]

the hugely excessive flash is one of the main reasons ive never really been able to really lean into the "supportive/covering fire" role for LMGs, especially since its combined with the super bright tracers. You pretty much accept that you're gonna get ganked when you use the LMGs for extended automatic fire, as its exceedingly easy for enemies to pinpoint your location. And as you said, flash hider doesnt really help much, and doesnt at all affect the tracers

[regal folio]

It doesn't have flash from my experience

[harsh forge]

It does. It's just not 0

[regal folio]

Any suppressed gun doesn't have flash appear when firing, can be easily noticed in map with lower visibility/light level like District or Dustydew

At least on enemy side

[harsh forge]

It's a better option than the room flashing even down stairs

[fossil wolf]

We should get a birdcage flash hider like that on the M16A2 as an attachment. Maybe on the basic or flash hider muzzle attachment.

[regal folio]

In this game, flash hider and compensator isn't match the model

Comp use flash hider model

Flash hider use comp model

[viscid forge]

bipods need buff

[night turtle]

🧢

[regal folio]

It doesn't need a buff, but it need a more reliable way for bilod deployment

Because right now, you either have to find a very specific ledge, or prone

[pallid cave]

give us a deploy option plz, so we can stop this seizure inducing twitching on slopes.

[viscid forge]

idk, but it shuld be better accuracy and less spread if i lay down with bipods then if i run with foregrip

[regal folio]

This

Should have made a option where you can bind a specific button to deploy it manually

At cost of not being able to move at all

While being deployed

[night turtle]

there is practically no spread in the game buddy

[viscid forge]

idk what to call it, recoil shuld be less with bipod is what im trying to say

try saw with bipods then try saw with foregrip

[night turtle]

the bipod has a 30% recoil reduction what are you talking about?
only when deployed which makes sense lol

[viscid forge]

since patch or earlier, havent tried since patch

ha ok then, seems to work fine now.

[night turtle]

since the attachment rebalancing

[viscid forge]

ah, my bad

[livid fulcrum]

I got back on after a hiatus and I like the bipod, seems pretty legit, definitely viable I feel, on the rpk, had some good stuff

[livid fulcrum]

prone is really good though, especially as an lmg

[tardy hound]

i think red dots should be thicker
the models obviously

[vague jewel]

I would like the OKP7 and the PK-AS sights on every weapon that has access to the standard red dot sight.

[little trench]

Sound if you use silencer with non-silenced ammo. Its still loud as heck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTQlqVXbSaY

[pallid cave]

you understand there are suppressors, silencers, different grades of both? they do their jab which usually means to control the gasses and the sound of the weapon actually firing.

[topaz matrix]

they actually put suppressed bullets when you add a suppressor in game you just can't tell bc the game doesn't look like it's changing the ammo

[pallid cave]

the bullet still cracks by peoples heads no? still loud and super sonic(suppressors are still loud as well)

[granite hatch]

Depends on super vs subsonic

[pallid cave]

the weapon in game still has the supersonic crack

[granite hatch]

Subsonic won't crack, because its subsonic.

[pallid cave]

and suppressors aren't exactly quiet.

[granite hatch]

Specifically in BBR? Yeah that's down to how much effort oki is willing to put into that sort of sound system lol

[granite hatch]

I mean, with subsonic ammo, a gun with a good suppressor won't really be terribly loud either. Pretty sure a well-suppressed .45 ACP is below the threshold for hearing damage, even if only barely

[pallid cave]

it all depends on how much you want the gun to heat up

less sound, more trapped gas, more heat.

[granite hatch]

And its definitely quiet enough that it's only sort of loud if you're in the immediate vicinity of that gun being fired. Even shrubbery would very quickly damped the sound to the point of being virtually silent within a couple hundred feet at most

Not to mention buildings, other flesh-bags, etc

[granite hatch]

Unless you shoot handguns like an unhinged lunatic, heat buildup will only be of reasonable cause for concern in full-auto weapons, a large portion of which are chambered in supersonic rounds anyway

[pallid cave]

which you can change out.

[granite hatch]

And you'll probably be on semi if you're going to the trouble of using a suppressor anyway

[pallid cave]

depends on the gun and doctrine of who's using it

[granite hatch]

True. Though if I'm using a suppressor, I'm probably going to avoid full-auto like the plague. Otherwise there's not much point

So unless that persons doctrine is "lack of common sense", they've probably got their priorities in order

Especially in the context of BBR, where even with unsuppressed weapons, my main concern is the brighter-than-the-sun tracers

Fuck it, since this is the attachment thread; give suppressors a certain amount of tracer brightness reduction

[pallid cave]

tell that to the SAS lol

[granite hatch]

40% or so, something to make them worth using outside of SRs

[pallid cave]

that's fair, suppressors are really good up close near alot of enemies in a fight, you can drop a lot of them from behind before they notice you

[granite hatch]

Well, SAS operatives defy common sense anyway

[granite hatch]

Until you miss a single shot, at which point two dozen enemies begin to perform complex calculus to trace that tracers back to your now-fucked forehead

[pallid cave]

in a big fight that doesn't really happen cause you know, bunch of friends also shooting in the same direction

[granite hatch]

Once upon a time I thought that

Learned the hard way that's only sometimes the case

Though I also only ever play 127v127, so it can be hard to tell if it's someone who saw my tracer, or some prick who's been chasing me for 5 minutes

[pallid cave]

its usually someone coming from a flank that sees you, not somebody pulling a 180. though there are people who do that for exactly that reason too

[granite hatch]

they see me walkin down the street, pullin 180s every 5 steps

[paper jay]

I had an idea the other day, what if when a weapon is set in burst mode the first shot kick is applied based on bursts rather than individual shots. So an m4 in 3 shot burst mode with stabil would get 0.6x recoil on every shot of the whole first burst.

[loud sand]

hmmm, that's a very interesting idea, but im concerned about scorpion and famas being too good after such change

but at the same time, there's barely any reason to change to burst fire on most of the guns anyway so, maybe such change would justify its use finally

[paper jay]

but then ur using stabil grip instead of anything else

[wooden spindle]

Extended mags need a reduced movement debuff. Having a ~15+ increase in mag size is not going to slow you down that much. Additionally, if there's a huge penalty to using extended mags then every gun also should have the availability of a quick mag.

[velvet walrus]

the displayed movement speed is bugged

iirc it slows you down a fifth of the amount that's displayed

so instead of -0.15, it's -0.03

[mystic iris]

it isn't bugged

it is just misleading

base weapon speed has 40% bearing on your movement, move speed changes from attachements are 20%

so -0.15 is 3% less actual movement speed as you said, but a -0.15 in base move speed is 6% for comparison (not mentioning this could be misleading)

[granite hatch]

Wouldnt be surprised if it actually is a flat-rate reduction. The amount of speed reduction you get on drum mags for guns that are already big and heavy feels like an equally large slowdown compared it would be on a gun with much higher base movement speed. Doesnt feel like naturally slower guns benefit from a smaller reduction size

Actually, my main point of reference for that is the MG36 drum mag, and it now occurs to me that it could just be due to that drum mag's dogshit balancing and insanely large debuffs.

[mystic iris]

The contribution of a gun’s move speed modifier to the total move speed is linear