Gunplay - Feedback

[lunar root]

They’re moving 10m. How significant that looks depends on the zoom on their scope.

But how is this at all relevant to the main topic

[timber widget]

it is

Look

All im trying to say is the close range velocity is kinda inconsistent

idk if its related to the hitreg

But adding hitscan+ballistic will prob improve it

[lunar root]

Hitreg should be unrelated to velocity

[timber widget]

I dont mean literally but they can prob affect each other in a way

[lunar root]

mm hm

[timber widget]

If you make the first 0.1s hitscan then you can prob tell if the hitreg has problems or not at close range

But its prob impossible to tell if the velocity is working right as a player

I think it is at least

[dusky kelp]

TTK (time to kill) like this is now the reason me and probably a lot of other people will vanish from the game (currently playing players went from 86k to 44k in a month even though new updates have been released, the devs need to get the message already). There is nothing a human can possibly do in such a short timeframe to defend themselves, in this game 0 people communicate making it so you either be paranoid and slowly walk around every corner holding Q/E or blindly trust them both of which are bullshit choices, in one of the clips there are 2 teammates ahead of me, I assume that its clear to run with them, naw random enemy kills me in less than a second. In the other clip I couldn't even begin to fire at them.

[timber widget]

he domed you in the head in the 2nd clip I dont get your point here. In both clips you werent ready for any sort of engagement, you got spotted first during sprinting expecting to win the gun fight ? Also you are so out of position in the 2nd clip I dont get what the problem is. Idk why clearing your angles before running out is a bad thing, are you trying to play CoD ?

[wild canyon]

dont bother replying

cuz he isnt in the server

lmao

he probably posted it and left or got banned(but not because of this post)

[lunar root]

Another person who sees the player count decline after launch and somehow determines that that must be because of one part of the game they personally don’t enjoy.

Weird.

[winter dawn]

Severe skill issues buddy. Ttk is fine, player count is stable

[modest parrot]

Would it be possible to not balance weapons at all by its muzzle flash? I genuinely cannot use the AUG without a suppressor or med scope. Same thing with velocity - I think a weapon should have its velocity be enough to fulfil their role. Like, DMR's are just way too slow and being at its intended range you basically need to lead every single shot and since you need 3 shots which each have horrific kickback it's a terrible experience compared to bolt action sniper

[wheat grove]

I'm surprised that there isn't a full thread/topic about it but game really needs a big audio update. It plays quite fine nowadays compared to the early days but not even the graphics is what's holding it back now IMO, it's the audio in general. Guns don't sound great and the immersion is completely gone most of the time because game can be super quiet in some areas. Almost eerily silent because you can't hear any of the war going on far away as background.

I know it's a lot to ask to just say "pls make audio better" but I really feel like it needs a serious rework sooner than later. Would improve immerson (Better soundscape) and just make it feel better and probably play better if the directionality and stuff can also be improved.

Just like when making videos, I feel like great audio is more important than good visuals.

[modest parrot]

TTK wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't for the spawn system ensuring there's 10 rats flanking you at any given moment from the weirdest places. Once the spawn mechanics are ironed out a lot of other issues that are created due to that will be mellowed. Even in your video I don't think the issue you have is how fast you die but people being in really weird positions i.e. in both your videos the enemy was in the middle of you and a squad/teammate which really shouldn't happen that often but it constant does due to the spawn system enabling rat tactics. Spawn system just favors attacks immensely and you really don't FEEL like you deserved to die half the time which is not a place you want to game in

[timber widget]

DMR is in an absolute terrible spot right now, even the highest damage dmr wouldnt 1 shot headshot someone without a helmet. And leading gunshots are the same for every weapon, the amount of lead you need to do is absolutely crazy and more apparent at close range.

[modest parrot]

My favorite part about the audio in this game is hearing bullets sounding like they're whizzing by my ear and I even get the suppression effect and I'm in a valley surrounded by rocks with no one around me for hundreds of meters. They supposedly made it better but it's literally the same thing to me

[timber widget]

The dev already said they hired an external studio to do a full audio rework

[wheat grove]

Oh did they? Where? Was looking for a thread about it but couldn't find it

[modest parrot]

I thought we already got the audio update?

Or did they decide to just redo everything anyways

[timber widget]

No they only did a small audio fix to give it more clarity but there's more updates for it and a whole sound overhaul. @wheat grove they were asked by the community/creators and said that I dont think I can find the post for you

They admitted the gun sounds are quite underwhelming and the audio is very funky

[wheat grove]

Ah gotcha, thanks for the info tho! Hope it's gonna be the case because right now I feel like that's the biggest thing that kills the vibe of the game sometimes. I honestly don't mind the graphics much, I would only like some ambient occlussion or something interiors looked better and some shadow system and stuff but I can live it. But if we had great audio, that would be so cool. Good sound = shooting feels better

[swift frigate]

I think the TTK is fine, in both situations you were caught in a bad spot (moving in a line, body fully exposed) and died about as fast as you should have.

The problem is what you mention about assuming it was safe, and I agree with that. It's a consequence of the extremely fast movement + squad spawning system. There's nothing resembling a frontline so you are forced to permanently move like you're having a seizure just in case you come across someone, which is not fun at all.

[blazing burrow]

That's generally what you should be doing in most FPS games. It's a great habit to be a bit evasive at all times; instead of running in straight lines

[late berry]

Anyone else sick of running around like an Olympic sprinter? I personally wouldn't mind if it was slowed down a bit so I'm not flicking my mouse into a wall while I track a medic with an smg.

[exotic timber]

I am

[cobalt zealot]

Worse part is when they just speed into the room you are in and run through you and there’s not much you can do.

[inner pine]

ahh yes loosing a fight against a vector while using the scorp, the enemy vaulted inside and was practicly in my barrel, don't know how half my mag didn't hit him

[swift frigate]

Might even make ARs relevant against moving targets. It's ridiculous how crossing through the exposed river below the waki bridge isn't even dangerous if you know how to strafe. At those ranges, you can just dodge anything people throw at you until you're within SMG range.

[nocturne widget]

nah. zooming around is fun. it contributes a lot to the fast pace, which i think is a large part of the appeal

if movement is slowed down, moving around becomes less viable, so more people just camp windows

a support player already cannot cross a street on a map like sandy sunset without dying instantly if someone spots him. you don't want that to be the case for every single class

[swift frigate]

So why do we even have streets if you're not supposed to be at any risk going through them. Might as well just cram everyone into an arena.

And support does get a bunch of smokes + constructables they can deploy for a safe crossing. Except those are made irrelevant when everyone else can just zoom around.

[lunar root]

1. You can’t have a map with buildings without streets

2. There is risk

[inner pine]

the packet loss is infuriating rn

[tight pecan]

dont play on wireless
play on 64 person or smaller games

[inner pine]

bruh

[tight pecan]

I can guarentee that BBR's servers aren't just randomly schuking your packets, its you or your ISP

[inner pine]

ik my wifi isn't the best but it worked a couple of patches prior without problem

[tight pecan]

it working before isn't really super relevent unless you have total control over the airwaves within 10-15 miles of your house

or you have some sort of way of testing the previous version to see if the problem goes away

[inner pine]

my guy, i am very well aware that internet connection isn't the same all the time but i've played this game essentually non stop for the time its been in ea like wtf it was better before

[tight pecan]

great, but causation =/= coorelation, you need to do more testing to make the accusation that their patches are causing your packet loss

[inner pine]

i don't accuse them of willfully messing with peoples connection to the server man i've read about other people experiencing the same thing ie: connection to the server feeling less snappy compared to previous patches

[tight pecan]

ok

[blazing burrow]

servers definitely lagging; there's often noticeable delay between shots and registered hits, I have a clip somewhere

[modest parrot]

The higher and lower end of speed (ADHD medic SMG main and Support with exo armor) needs to be reigned in. The extremes are just way too much

[lunar root]

The differences are major but not unrealistically so

[blazing burrow]

higher ends are good, imo lower ends should be brought up. specifically supp is way to slow. 85/90-110 should be the range we operate in. Currently supp goes to like 70% or something and imo that's just way too low compared to everyone else.

[lunar root]

extreme speed is just a tad bit higher than decently fast speed which most people tend to go at

[midnight tinsel]

For where ttk is at, top speed is fine

However bottom speed needs way better upsides than exo armor or an extra rpg

[modest parrot]

Exo armor would need to basically quad TTK to justify its usage because when you look at it holistically even the ADS time for support is so slow that if you and someone else spot each other you're going to die from the ADS difference alone. If you get caught you're so slow you can't run away behind cover

[nocturne widget]

yeah, support is just straight up not fun because of how sluggish you are. it's excessively difficult to move anywhere or keep up with your team, so you're just encouraged to be a camper (which isn't fun, especially with how much of a sisyphean task defending points is, due to how spawning works)
i think ADHD smg medic speed is fine, but smgs should all get harsher damage fall-off like the vector so they're less effective at longer ranges

[modest parrot]

Even if camping/defensive play was fun it's actively hurts your account progression because you get less kills and you're looking at 300+ kills PER WEAPON for the attachments. I'm hoping the attachment rework they're doing means it's no longer tied to kills

[midnight tinsel]

P sure attachment rework is purely making them meaningful

[modest parrot]

big L if that's true considering progression is STILL one of the biggest contributers to player attrition

[midnight tinsel]

Is it really tho

[modest parrot]

yes, casuals are still only around 75-85 as per metrics from oki

no one likes playing 100 hours in a game and still not having access to every weapon

why do you think 60k+ players have left? those are all the casuals

Like I got about 130 hour and I barely unlocked the FAL and I only got 80 kills on it. The grind is absolutely brutal. I keep swapping to my MP5 because I already got everything unlocked with it so I'm not stuck using an inferior version of what the weapon could be

[blazing burrow]

That's also likely because many of them stopped playing before the progression changes, tbh, or haven't played as much since it happened. I really wish progression existed as it currently does when the game went live, I think a lot more players would be playing today if that was the case. Atm leveling is insanely quick.

Probably the biggest issue is the large gap in ARs, you get one at 15 then the next one not until 50. ARs are the most common casual weapon due to being better general all arounders, so they really should have a better progression curve. Imo moving some of the later ARs to 25 and 35 would help a TON for how progression feels for many casuals. Could be famas, SG, Aug that could fit in either 25/35 slots. Then scar at lvl 50 and then compress the last few ARs a bit, every 10 levels or so, leaving FAL as the last.

An example progression I think would be great would be:

starter: M4/AK74
15: AK15
25: Famas
35: Aug
45: SCAR-H
55: ACR
65: SG50
75: HK419
85: G36C
100: AK5C
140: FAL

This gets you a decent spread of general and more niche ARs at a reasonable rate. There are also a number of unreleased guns that are coming later, so they'll help fill gaps and the order/levels of unlocks can be further re-arranged then. Maybe every 15 levels for ARs would be better as well. Either way, I believe the biggest issue for casual progression aside from the rate at which you leveled prior to the update is the big gap between AK15 and SCAR(which are both similar niche), meaning you don't get much variety for AR unlocks until level 75, even after the vector

[modest parrot]

Progression should just be 1-100. The moment you have what we have people's eyes glaze over

[turbid plank]

I don't know why but if I launch the game on the next day, my weapons I picked yesterday are reverted to random weapons I swicthed off of. Not sure what is going on.

[midnight tinsel]

These metrics are news to m, because there's been no talk about progression since the changes not to mention this was balanced so youd reach 200 in the same amount of time it took to get to old 70-80

Like old progression was bad, but it is now 3 times faster with a much softer curve meaning even the post 100 level weapons should not feel that far away

Your mediocre 1k points an hour player is level 200by 120 hours max and that's not considering the fact that stuff past 150 is cosmetic

The grind was brutal, and it sounds more like you burnt yourself out on old progression than anything else

[wild canyon]

unless

you are not like killing anything

or capturing the points/flags

[modest parrot]

so did all the casuals - the people left now playing are decidedly not the casual audience and are closer to hardcore players. Progression should've been 1-100 with an estimated grind time of 25-30 hours for max level

Even the attachment grind is obscene when you have dozens of weapons at play and many weapons fundamentally change with certain attachment combos

[midnight tinsel]

A multiplayer game with 30 hours of content is a meme

[modest parrot]

Grind =/= content, get your head out of your ass

Was the previous grind good content? No, it was killing the game so much they had to change it

Because grind isn't content.

[midnight tinsel]

Grind is playing normally for 2 hours, ok 💪

[modest parrot]

People like feeling a sense of accomplishment, that's what grind is for. The moment you have grind for the sake of grind is when your game dies

[midnight tinsel]

But you dont

You get a weapon every 2 matches

Again at worst

[modest parrot]

Oh boy, a weapon where I have to get 300 kills on it to be at an equal playing field AGAIN

Did you help Oki design the progression system? Is that why it's so bad?

[midnight tinsel]

Yes, I helped with the new progression system that basically satisfied 2 threads of thousands of people

It went from one thousand to just you in this thread

[modest parrot]

new progression system
Yet you're advocating for things that made the progression system so bad people quit en masse

curious

[midnight tinsel]

The playerbase literally spiked with that change

[modest parrot]

Yesterday we hit 15k peak for the first time and today it's shaping up to hitting 14k i.e. player retention is still poor. Surely that doesn't have anything to do with the grind or the fact to make the a clan you're looking at the biggest grind in the game, a feature other games have baseline.

the spike doesn't matter, player RETENTION matters

It doesn't matter if an update comes out tomorrow that gives us 100,000 peak if the next day we're left with 10,000 players

[midnight tinsel]

Listen, if you think making the XP grind even faster is going to give a rise in players at all you're seriously delusional

[modest parrot]

You're still missing my point which isn't a surprise

You're looking at player population and jerking yourself off over it

I'm looking at player retention

It's in the negative and it's still maintaining itself which means players do not like the current state of the game

part of that is the obscene grind that still exists

[midnight tinsel]

Maybe player retention is dying because there hasn't been any major updates and other games like baldurs gate, payday 3 and destiny are all having launches?

[wild canyon]

lot of game is coming out

[midnight tinsel]

But yes, it's definitely the grind that the community said was too fast after initial changes

[wild canyon]

like

[modest parrot]

That's such bad cope dude. BG3 released early september

[wild canyon]

armored core 6 too

[granite pivot]

There hasny been any new guns since release right lol

[modest parrot]

This game lost 5k players in the past 7 days alone

There's no sharp decline in playerpop that indicates people are quitting for a new game

[wild canyon]

then theres this cod update

[modest parrot]

It's steady loss of players over time

[midnight tinsel]

Sounds like community servers will be perfect for you

[wild canyon]

this game lacks update for like

[midnight tinsel]

You can have your instant gratification

[wild canyon]

a month now

[modest parrot]

Ah, the new cope

if you don't like insane grind of pixels you just want instant gratification

Gotta love it

Ask wildstar how that worked out for them fam

[midnight tinsel]

Yeah Oki is going way too hard into community servers, but it should be back to steady updates soon

[wild canyon]

idk man its one of those people GRIND IS HARD

probably has low score per min

[modest parrot]

Grind can be fun or tedious - guess which one battlebit fits in? Protip: it's the one that results in tens of thousands of players quitting

[midnight tinsel]

How is this such a massive problem that nobody is talking about. No reddit threads, no discord threads. It all seemingly vanished after progression change yet to you it's still too high

[modest parrot]

"It all seemingly vanished after progression change yet to you it's still too high" it vanished along with the casual playerbase

Like I said before, there's no casuals left. It's just people who are closer to hardcore than not. People who don't mind hundreds of hours of grinding in 1 game

[nocturne widget]

the leveling pace is really good now after the change. it's not a grind but also gives you time to get comfortable with the weapons you get
if you were to make it any faster, you'd just be overwhelming new players with too many guns at the same time. having too many options is a great way to induce decision anxiety

[modest parrot]

The grind reduction update was for a crowd of players who were already burnt out. Current grind is still riculous. No one enjoys griding 300+ kills PER gun to make it good

[nocturne widget]

lol, lmao. only the M110 requires anywhere near that to be good

most guns are good by default (barring the terrible ironsights on some of them, which you only have to deal with for 5 kills)

[midnight tinsel]

Yeah dawg is just mad because he doesn't have everything within 30 hours

[modest parrot]

"these are the same guns and play the exact same way"
what a bad cope

[nocturne widget]

they literally are though lmfao

[modest parrot]

M4 gets about a .50 reduction in their recoil from attachments

Couldn't be more bad faith if you tried

[midnight tinsel]

The difference between you and me is that I'm actually reading through all these feedback threads for attachments, steam guides, and steam reviews

[modest parrot]

Difference between me and you is my IQ is above 100

[nocturne widget]

fat chance

[midnight tinsel]

Ok, I'm done here. You can go live in your own world where you see invisible things

[modest parrot]

And you can live with a 300 pop game 2 months from now

[wild canyon]

those recoil doesnt even matter

if you are using a red dot

[modest parrot]

I use a med scope

[wild canyon]

literally controllable

[nocturne widget]

this is really me when -0.26 vertical recoil magically transforms my mp5 into a completely different gun

[modest parrot]

I use my MP5 as a better AR

Beams people consistently at 100-120 meters

[nocturne widget]

ok, and

you can beam people with mp5 without any attachments

[modest parrot]

You REALLY couldn't be more dishonest in your arguments my dude

[nocturne widget]

you really couldn't be grasping at straws any more my dude

beaming people at longer ranges than other smgs is a distinct feature of the mp5. it's not like putting on attachments suddenly makes it able to do that

[modest parrot]

And you're just making shit up now too, amazing

[nocturne widget]

everyone that disagrees with me is just making shit up, a childs guide to arguing on the internet

[modest parrot]

MP5 shares recoil profile with PP19 and UMP has .2 less horitonal recoil than either of those two. It's not a unique feature to the MP5

Learn the stats of the gun before you just make things up

[nocturne widget]

29 damage means it suffers less from damage fall-off

[modest parrot]

TTK between the MP5 and UMP is only 10% less

[nocturne widget]

PP19 has 25 damage so any amount of fall-off makes it take another bullet to kill

[modest parrot]

You're still going to kill someone at 100 meters assuming same accuracy. It may require a few more bullets but that's irrelevant

You're only getting 1 kill per mag at 100 meter with SMG's The extra bullet isn't going to matter

[nocturne widget]

"it may require a few more bullets but that's irrelevant" t. i only get one kill per mag ever

[wild canyon]

i mean if you can beam people

[modest parrot]

I mean I'm going to unload the mag if I have a chance but I'm not generally in a position where there's a group of people I'm trying to shoot at at 100 meters

[wild canyon]

with mp5

farming attachment for it isnta problem

[modest parrot]

Most of the time it's you kill 1 guy you spot and move on

i.e. the extra bullet literally doesn't matter

And that's you moving the goalposts, you said it's a unique feature of the MP5 which it isn't

[tight pecan]

citation needed

[modest parrot]

Res ipsa loquitur

[tight pecan]

so no actual data yet, just some random internet chucklehead making stuff up?

[modest parrot]

Yeah, just making things up

[tight pecan]

oh i'm well aware of 75+% of the players stopping playing, the question was : " the people left now playing are decidedly not the casual audience and are closer to hardcore players. "

what exactly are you basing that on

[modest parrot]

Res ipsa loquitur

[wild canyon]

this was before the changes no?

[modest parrot]

Day of

Average level should be a lot higher due to less casual players even if the changes never went through

[wild canyon]

5 days before the update

[modest parrot]

ah, thought it dropped on the 3rd

[wild canyon]

so literally

this is false claim

the update of exp was pushed becuase of that reason

so people shouldnt be stucked at 60-80

or whatever

[tight pecan]

dont say that he'll just misuse legal terms at you to pretend to be smart XD

[modest parrot]

More like out of date by 2 weeks

or if you want to look at it this way: perpetually true because most of the casuals left before the rework

Because that statement I made isn't wrong at all

[wild canyon]

i mean that is true

casual dont usually stay anyway but if they comeback

they wont be stuck anymore since

the exp grind

isnt that grindy

lul

i think people are just really done with the hype tbh

game was really overhyped as roblox CoD battlefied whatever

people are here for the hype or for the nostalgia mostly

[nocturne widget]

sorry to hear that this is your first videogame launch of all time

[faint furnace]

Anyone talking about the declining player count as a definitive argument for "Oki NEEDS to change this" is a knob who apparently doesn't understand how games work. How crazy do you have to be to think a game like this would retain it's 60k-80k numbers after early access release. The only games I know that achieve this are Valve games and League of Legends. There is no singular balance, progression, or class update that would magically bring back tens of thousands of players.
The fact that it still has 15k players right now is pretty crazy for a low budget, unknown, multiplayer only game. Heck if there's even 5k players after 6 months that would still be an achievement in my books. Battlebit will have it's audience just like any other game and that's fine.

[modest parrot]

Cope. This is your future

That game isn't even bad, the problem is that the dev's killed it through their own actions. 92% on steam with 20.2k ratings. Has a lot of similar issues that BBT does.

Yeah, by all metrics the game was a financial success for the devs but I'm not going to pretend it wasn't self-sabotaged by a lack of foresight i.e. nerfing the grind by the time over half the players already left or by the poor choice in what to focus on i.e. CTF, a mode no one plays, instead of doing a proper balance patch which people STILL want.

[nocturne widget]

wah wah wah game is gonna die because you don't get every gun within 20 minutes of playing

how about you stop worrying about the game's player count and start worrying about your mom's body count

[wild canyon]

the game isnt bad true but the replayabilit of this game is just bad

like

does this game even have a mod support

like

left 4 dead?

[modest parrot]

ST:E? Or BBT?

[wild canyon]

starship

[modest parrot]

No

[wild canyon]

lol

LUL

[modest parrot]

ST:E biggest issue was its classes and the rework they did just made it worse

[wild canyon]

surely it is

[modest parrot]

It killed the Bastion overnight

I always maintained that that game was operating with a skeleton crew which is why the patches are once a month, no one ever communicates, and why there's no constant weapon/class balancing and I was proven right

[wild canyon]

sure but the gameplay of the game isnt something that appealing for long term tho pretty sure people just hyped out cuz you can have 16 friends

with you

and play a game thats similar to hoarde objective game

like left 4 dead and payday

like the game doesnt offer something new

its just like left 4 dead with classes

heck same with gtfo

also this game has a bad accessability too since like graphics are in the high end

sure battlebit isnt something new but the fact the game is accesible to most people wont make the game dead

heck if left 4 dead didnt have modding support game probably would be dead same as tf2

[faint furnace]

That's such a bad example. Firstly that's a co-op PVE game from a niche IP from 1997. Of course it's player base will drop. It was a financial success and the people that are playing it enjoy it. It's only similar to Battlebit in that it's in EA and a shooter.
Do you not know the majority of people don't even finish single player games? Have you ever looked at some of your games' achievements? You don't notice the "70% of players finished the tutorial" or ”30% of players finished the first level" achievements? Players don't stick to the overwhelming majority of games they play because that's normal.
Do you think BB won't have a dedicated playerbase big enough to fill a few servers per region? If you're on a full server you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in 60k or 5k players.
If the BB team properly markets the game when 1.0 is finished we'll see a large boost in players for a time and it's final numbers after a few months.

I've seen so many people say X game is dying because y that I could write a book about it. Sometimes I think the people who go "gayme ded" are depressed teenagers chasing dopamine from whatever the flavor of the month mtx infected battlepass treadmill grind fest time sink GaaS that Triple A Corp™️ pumps out every summer.

[tight pecan]

80 percent of your players leaving over 2-3 months isn't that
Heck, almost all of that has been over the last 30 days

The playerbase optimized gameplay into smg medics/pilots or recon and a majority of the players didn't find that fun, thats it

[faint furnace]

The thing is it's normal. Almost every single game has it happen. Look at the steam charts for Battlefield, Destiny, and even battle royale games like Spellbreak. It's absolutely normal for the player count to stabilize to ~10% or less after a few months

[faint furnace]

Yeah, look at the actual chart. Spellbreak actually shut down not too long ago. The point is the player count will stabilize for any game to a fraction of it was at its peak or launch

[tight pecan]

ok there must be no problem then, carry on

[granite pivot]

COD warzone

BBR

so yeah, these sort of drops are 100% to be expected

[turbid plank]

But we have 10% of average at the moment. How do you think it will rise?

[faint furnace]

the daily peak is 14k and the launch peak was 87 so thats 16% of that peak still playing daily which is very much expected

i dont think it will rise until 1.0 which is how EA titles usually go

[turbid plank]

But it drops every day :/

[faint furnace]

yeah...thats normal

[turbid plank]

Some people are talking that it’s hard to find servers but with 14 k it shouldn’t be hard

[turbid plank]

But with end of summer it might drop to half of it

[turbid plank]

Why would it do that? If anything it should go up a little bit again because in the cold seasons, people are more likely to stay at home and play something

during summer most people go outside and enjoy the warmth

[lunar root]

Battlebit players might not be “most people”

For me though summer is too warm. I am less likely to want to go outside when it’s hot.

[turbid plank]

You’re right

[red prairie]

nope hes not

[turbid plank]

Why?

[red prairie]

its summer, when there are 37°C trust me theres nobody staying outside

unless ure in a vacation, theres no way youre going outside enjoying the warmth

cold season starts, school starts, and this game is more populated because kids, the player base will go lower

[red prairie]

exactly

[red prairie]

bro ure comparing warzone to battlebit fr

[swift frigate]

Yes, their point is that across very different games the behavior is similar. Therefore you cannot use the observed trend for BB to say anything you could not say about CoD.

Not without adding some additional piece of information, at least.

[red prairie]

Also, is it just me or the TTK its too long?

i dont enjoy hitting people 5-6 times

for most of the weapons

[inner pine]

hitreg is not very optimal rn, fucks me over a lot

[red prairie]

well, i do hit my shots but it takes quite a lot of shots to kill somebody

and its cringe

hitting someone for 6-7 shots

[lunar root]

ttk too long in this game?

[red prairie]

yea

[lunar root]

More people complain that it’s too short

[red prairie]

maybe im stupid idk, i just want the milsim mode

[lunar root]

As it stands it’s barely longer than most people’s reaction times so I think it being shorter would make the game less fun

Dying in a way that makes you feel there was nothing you could have done differently is not satisfying to me

[red prairie]

well considering its a war game, getting hit from behind should get you killed always, from what i saw the game its a mixed between arcade-reality

[lunar root]

It basically always does get you killed

[red prairie]

nope, i meet a lot of **** that start doing movement shit, 180 and shit like that like they are in fortnite

this is bad for the game

and this is making the game less fun

[lunar root]

I guess some people are really good at turning around quickly. I would be quite surprised if someone killed me after I started shooting at them with a high accuracy from behind though… that basically never happens

[red prairie]

nope, this shouldnt be a strat

[lunar root]

Turning around fast?

[red prairie]

u dont get my point

let me find a gif

[swift frigate]

This is your opinion - which I fully agree with. But there seems to be a not-small or at least very loud contingent of the playerbase that thinks shaking their character around like they're being tazed is some amazingly interesting display of skill and not just a contest of who wants to be more annoying.

[lunar root]

Jittering around for the most part doesn’t take skill

It’s just that without skill that strategy is kinda useless imo

[red prairie]

well, if the devs think this is good for the game, it will only hurt the game

[swift frigate]

Yes - you can be bad at doing annoying things. Doesn't mean the people who are good it are not annoying or that having to be on equal footing doesn't force you to get good at something that's fecking annoying.

[lunar root]

Milsim mode will probably limit turn speed and perhaps add some inertia

[swift frigate]

This is a pretty good example
https://old.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/comments/15yzhpw/move_it_till_you_make_it/

[swift frigate]

Everybody keeps talking about milsim mode like it's a real thing. The only that's clearly being worked on right now is community servers and people are assuming/hoping someone will be hosting servers with milsim-ish-er settings.

[lunar root]

Well… we know it’s coming.

[red prairie]

exactlyyyyyy

[inner pine]

well if you're hitting armor all the time, ehhh... but i'm fully on you're side about the wiggle and shmovement bs that is currently in the game (we need milsim mode)

[swift frigate]

Tbh I don't think the devs have much incentive to care at this point. They already managed to get a decently sized playerbase. Once they release community servers they can just get passive income from the people renting them and leave any balance to individual hosts.

[red prairie]

well this is what is gonna happen i think

[lunar root]

Can server hosts add inertia

[inner pine]

no, not rn, but they can mod the general movement speed, F for support

[swift frigate]

Yeah, but they can just keep adding features until BB isn't so much a game but a platform that can be flexibly modded and on top of which can people can do whatever they want

That's basically how the Roblox people made their billions

[wild canyon]

i mean roblox provided tools to make those and it isnt a one man team

3man team*

[fleet heart]

worst thing for gunplay in this game is the armor system, makes ttk inconsistent

[wild canyon]

armor system?

i mean armor system is jsut very simple no?

like its just add hp to that body part

tho some guns have armor damage back then right?

[fleet heart]

surely doesnt feel like it, feels more like it blocks most if not all damage until it breaks

[swift frigate]

Here's a list of widely successful FPS games that do not include any form of armor or HP modifying perk:

Thanks for your attention.

[wild canyon]

yeah i do feel like its doing something different like theres still armor damage

[fleet heart]

in most of those games it doesnt feel that bad because of 1 hit headshots atleast for me

[red prairie]

Well, you think this game would fail if they remove armor? i doubt that

[red prairie]

facts

[inner pine]

armor should be kept tho

[red prairie]

but modified

its like u have a second life

[swift frigate]

No, but when you reduce the number of variables you can balance things around you get less combinations of viable loadouts. So if you want an even less varied selection of weapons to be relevant, sure.

[granite pivot]

Perfectly valid comparison for player counts

[midnight tinsel]

No, that game has like triple, 4x the ttk

And half the movement

Anyways armor is a worse version of limb damage in most games

It straight up eats damage and blocks your chest, which is where youre suppose to aim in a shooter

[red prairie]

mope. ure delusional

nope*

[granite pivot]

No u

[nocturne delta]

armor just needs an entire rework in general. the meta is speed not defense

[swift frigate]

The meta is a consequence of the way things are currently designed and not the other way around. Slow armor is not a problem if the tradeoff is worth it.

[exotic timber]

But it isn't.

[ancient meteor]

make bleeding have a large affect on your aim. being able to just ignore a sniper round and put a bullet in your assailants face before bandaging is dumb as hell

[midnight tinsel]

Does armor fit the game

I've asked this before in other threads, but armor just seems to be frustrating for those who have it and those who don't. If it's not getting changed, would you rather just not have it and get something else to compensate?

[lunar root]

I think in a game with such a fast ttk, armour is good to have as a way to slow that down a bit for people who prefer to not die instantly

Caters to a wider variety of playstyles I think.

[dense warren]

largely because armor is one shot and cant be repaired without respawning

[tight pecan]

people will blame anything but themselves for why they died.
in any game with super fast TTK like this one, speed will always be king because not getting shot is better than getting shot and only 90% dying

if you wanted to remove it, I'd do something like an across the board HP buff to take up the slack, and then erode max HP slightly every time you are healed or picked back up, so fresh troops are always better but front lines can still get worn down

[red prairie]

super fast TTK? bro ure crazy 👎

A game with super fast TTK is insurgency, squad, milsim games not Battlebit where i shoot 6-7 bullets to a guy

[tight pecan]

uh huh
go back to drooling over TTK spreadsheets

realistically TTK is around a quarter to half of a second at best if the person is hitting their shots due to how the netcode works

[red prairie]

trust me

im hitting my shots

i know what im talking

[tight pecan]

and we know why you're hitting those shots

XD

[red prairie]

and what do you mean by that? im cheating or what?

cant you read?

i was reviewd for bad language and i got "unbanned" after 3 hours

[tight pecan]

(its because you're a cunt)

[red prairie]

cringe

ure that guy with 0.75 kd?

because i can see that

you really searched for my messages

get off this d...

[fleet heart]

in the grand scheme of thing bbr does have fast ttk the reason i feel taht it feels inconsistent is the armor and people accidentally shooting you in the legs

also no one hit headshots makes it feel slower

[tight pecan]

is that dude done with his autistic screeching? XD

[midnight tinsel]

Anyways

So would it be better to just increase overall ttk to compensate removing armor

Or is it better to just outright remove armor

[tight pecan]

You'd have to do some reporting and see how many people are really not wearing armor

[midnight tinsel]

Both routes change the game, but I don't see a very good middle ground

[midnight tinsel]

Wouldn't work, simply because armor is default and people don't change their loadouts

[tight pecan]

then you'll be hurting the TTK for your average player by nixing it without compensation

[midnight tinsel]

Sure, but you'd do the inverse with a pure ttk buff

[tight pecan]

if they're the "good players" they'll learn to compensate, average players will just quit imho

I feel like the "fresh players are more healthy/tougher than playesr that were healed/shot/rezzed/etc) is a good part of battlebit though, it handicaps the people out in the field medicing themselves over and over, so an erosion of maxhp as you're healed would keep this in the game without armor existing

[fleet heart]

punish players for actually playing the game, sounds like a banging idea

[tight pecan]

giving something to someone else isn't punshing you, deal with it XD

[fleet heart]

nah if your make max hp erode because you get into gunfights is not a good idea

[lunar root]

about 5% of people run full empty armour, according to polls

[tight pecan]

the current erosion of helmet/armor already "rewards" you for dying and respawning by refreshing your armor

eroding maxhp is just keeping that in the game without armor

you just set a "min" so you cant bandage yourself into a mummy man with 1 hp XD

[tight pecan]

polls are stupid, they need to pull the data

[lunar root]

it's the best I can do

[fleet heart]

makes it just harder for the average player

[lunar root]

with data from aforementioned polls, armour in this game overall slows TTKs down by approximately 23.4%

could take away armour and give everyone 125hp and only those with EXO would likely notice anything had changed

[tight pecan]

how does it make it harder exactly when its already in the game, right now?

or do you mean harder compared to not

[fleet heart]

exactly, thats why it shouldnt be a thing, inconsitent gunplay is frustrating

[tight pecan]

how is it inconsistent?

[fleet heart]

the ttk is inconsistent currently because different armors give you different times kill someone

the factor in if the guy you are fighting already got in to a fight or if hes fresh of spawn

[tight pecan]

lol

[lunar root]

people have different HP depending on if they've just been in a fight or not as well

opponents being at different strength isn't really something removable

and most will say the speed you loose from heavier armour outweighs the HP boost in terms of how long you'll last under fire anyway

[fleet heart]

of course hp is gonna be different but i dont think making it artificially a wider range of ttk's is the play

[tight pecan]

we should remove armor and HP, just do a straight bullet counter, at all ranges too, dont want kills to be inconsistent because of damage drop or recoil

game should be instagib unreal basically

[lunar root]

since the general consensus is that heavier armours tend to be worse, I don't think the potential to have your ttk extended is much of an issue

because most people say it'll make them easier to hit anyway

[tight pecan]

are you afraid of shooting one or two extra bullets at a guy from your 9 mag medic loadout?

[red prairie]

Im really not gonna argue with a kid who still types XD in 2023

grow up

[fleet heart]

the work around also could be 1 hit headshots but people wont rate that, too much effort to aim for head in an fps

[red prairie]

This should be implemented 100%

[blazing burrow]

bleeding is already punishing enough, don't need to make it even more punishing.

[tight pecan]

its already 1 hit headshots if you can aim with a boltie

[lunar root]

1 hit headshots in general makes it so hard to balance a game where you can kill so many in quick succession

[red prairie]

Well, 1 hit headshots shouldnt be on every weapon

[tight pecan]

cqb site on the remington gets work done

[blazing burrow]

I think it does but not in its current implementation; It'd make a lot more sense as % damage reduction similar to PUBG, but obv not using PUBG numbers.

[midnight tinsel]

For the sake of this convo, no buffs to armor

[blazing burrow]

I'd love to see all helmets removed except EXO, though, which would be limited to support, to counter-act that and make sure headshots stay deadly

[midnight tinsel]

Just as is

[fleet heart]

theres no point to running helmets already tbf

[blazing burrow]

As is I don't think armor is implemented well or adds to the gameplay in a meaningful way. It's effectively just an EHP boost for fresh spawns, similar to older call of duty death streak

Armor as a concept I think is OK, but it would need a rework(not a buff necessarily, a rework) for it to really find a solid place where it has positive gameplay impact.

If I'm being honest, there should only be "no armor", "medium armor", "exo armor", with no helmets except exo on support, and armor being a small % reduction(1-2 extra bullets to kill on avg, the same or slightly weaker than current implementation).

[tight pecan]

from the other side
I dont see how the slight randomness of armor hurts anyone not just looking for something to blame for their failure

its not like ive gotten, in thousands of kills, a thick stream of armor blocks in a row that made me raise an eyebrow

if I died because one bullet got blocked I didn't have the upper hand

[midnight tinsel]

In this theoretical world we're discussing, there can be no buffs or reworks that incentivize headshots or involve nerfing non headshots

[tight pecan]

are hitboxes on the table?

[midnight tinsel]

maybe

[lunar root]

that would be the result of any deviation from the current system

[tight pecan]

okay so, a list.
-eliminate armor, move helmet hitbox so it counts the player as having chops, eg, face shots from the front, face shots from the side more difficult than what it appears to be currently
-helmets last longer, big indicator when shot in the head and/or helmet ejected, no helmet respawns, but getting your helmet blown off very noticable and worrying

-move armor HP to main HP, possibly small buff to max toughness, when you heal, maybe 5% or something of the healing erodes your max hp so fresh folk have a little boost still, set a minimum HP that is fair for people that are alive for a long time so they dont get down to like 1 shot downs if they heal too much
-set move speed to what you think it should be for each class, since armor is a major component of this
-might also have to slightly rebalance equipment / mag capacity or just leave it

-add exosuit to primary gadget
-exosuit extends helmet hitbox to include shoulders and is tougher/full face, so prone exo you have to wear through the head and shoulders to get through to the body and kill them, slows down support appropriately
-or exosuit shoulder/heavy helmet is basically a "helmet over your helmet/shoulders" in other words, in addition to your helmet

[blazing burrow]

ok so. In that case, I still think armor needs a rework, like I said I don't think it needs a buff at all. I'll try to list out my reasoning as to why the current system isn't adding to the gameplay in a meaningful way.

1. Since it's a flat HP buff that is subtracted before HP, it sometimes acts really weirdly in fights. For example, you can take up to 3 shots with an L96 before killing an exo player, which is well over 180 damage. Even a headshot+body shot won't always kill, which is just ridiculous and feels crazy.

2. because head+body armor have seperate armor HP pools, this results in extremely long, likely unintended TTKs, especially against exo armor. You could feasibly hit someone 3-4 times and do almost no flesh damage if you are using a lower damage gun, even if you hit them in the head a few times. This results in leg meta unironically being the most reliable way to take fights because you always do flesh damage.

3. because it can't be replaced at all, and is only filled on a fresh spawn, this leaves players who take armor/helmet in a spot where they basically get 1 majorly advantagious fight, but afterwards have a bunch of movement and ADS speed penalties stacked up. In the case of support, you basically get 1 free face to face fight where you'll win any DPS race per life.

4. Because of 3) this effectively causes armor to feel more like an old call of duty death streak, Juggernaut(which everyone really fucking hated). It basically works like an equalizer between differently skilled players, because worse players tend to die more = having armor in MOST of their fights, while better players will spend most of their time without armor taking fights at an EHP disadvantage.

5. Unfortunately, because of 4), this means that support, which is a class designed around Exo armor, feels extremely awkward and clunky; like it's designed as a noob trap instead of being a class focused around a more defensive playstyle.

6. excluding support exo helmet, helmets feel ridiculously unfair at times, and can be extremely punishing in some situations. For example, hitting a headshot with a deagle against a non-exo player will almost always result in a death despite you effectively using the gun perfectly and as intended. In addition, it's often not possible to determine if a target is wearing a helmet or not so you can't make snap decisions, because a lot of cosmetics LOOK like helmets but aren't, or ARE helmets but don't look like it. Exo helmets are distinguished enough so you can make a snap decision to shoot them in the balls/legs instead, which is why I think keep exo helmets is ok but not other helmets.

[midnight tinsel]

Haha yup

[blazing burrow]

continuing a bit on 2) the seperate HP pools can feel very punishing and make many fights take a very unexpected number of hits, there are times where I thought I was lagging or the server was lagging, only to watch the replay and i see I headshot them twice(doing no damage) then started hitting body shots. What would normally reduce TTK in any other situation instead heavily punished me for having better aim and intentionally going for a few leading headshots and trying to finish off with body shots - the most effective way to shoot if you discount armor. This is very counter intuitive to FPS games in general as a genre and is a major reason why leg meta is becoming the norm, which imo, is a major indicator that there is a problem with the current implementation. Headshots are often punished instead of rewarded.

continuing on 3) allowing the replacement of armor in its current state(with no other changes considered), would simply result in a longer reset time(since resetting armor is now mandatory) along with buffing supports in general by giving them their full EHP in every single fight, basically exasperating all the problems armor have now and bringing them into every single engagement instead of only some of them.

As a result, I think that reworking the armor system to be more similar to either CS:GO or PUBG would result in much better gameplay. Even hitting different armored body parts would still result in bleed through damage to the HP, and at the same time, you would eliminate the idea of having to replace armor and it lasting only a single fight, it would now be a permanent % damage reduction that is always applied. That solves 1), 2), and 3).

4. would also be solved.

This would be a lot of work, and it would take some time to rebalance armor and exo armor, but imo it would be a HUGE improvement and would allow for very distinct playstyles regarding armor. As long as armor isn't buffed as a result, because the EHP of heavy/exo is already very high, of course

[late berry]

Just had a situation where I was sniping a medic in an open field. Missed the headshot, but connected a body shot. He spazzed around air strafing like most medics do, missed several more shots while he healed. Landed a body shot, missed other shots while he air strafed. That went on another round, until I just started shooting someone else. Honestly, after 500 hours and countless kills, I'm just done with the movement nonsense. I've been watching the upcoming changes like a hawk hoping for a change, but I don't think it's coming. Farewell nerds.

[exotic timber]

Maybe jumping should just be removed and replaced with contextual climbing

[swift frigate]

No way that wouldn't end up in a buggy annoying mess. Just need to add some inertia so you can't just change direction midair and make landing slow you down so that spamming it is pointless.

[cobalt warren]

the movement is half the fun

i disagree with this

maybe for the milsim mode, but not for everything else

[lunar root]

Changing direction mid air isn’t too much of an issue
Changing direction mid air 10 times a second while maintaining full speed is, imo.

I don’t think we should restrict it majorly, but just a bit, such that completely jittering around isn’t a thing.

[inner pine]

make enemies solid, that'll make a lot of cqb movement bs less prevelent i think

[lunar root]

Hmm. I think this would only serve to make fights less interesting. Half of building engagements would just be you running into an enemy, meeting an abrupt stop and then whoever stops sprinting and starts shooting first wins

The hyperevasivness thing isn’t really an issue when they’re right in your face as it’s harder for them to track you than it is for you to track them

[dense warren]

or maybe it should be implemented in a more realistic way, like jumping all over the place reducing your forward speed, unless it's a running jump. Like, you know, how nearly all sensible games approach this problem.

Ironically for all the "mILsIm" screeching BB has hilariously arcade movement, like quake levels of mobility and scaling obstacles

Meanwhile a guy with a gun that's like 500g heavier is moving like a turtle

Compared to a dude who hauls an RPG and 7 extra rockets on him

[stuck verge]

This game doesn't know what it wants to be

it wants to be bf, but it has more unbalanced guns than cod

it wants to be mil sim, but lets you jump and change directions like a jackass on drugs

[midnight tinsel]

Such as SMGs I'm guessing? Or under balanced weapons

[dense warren]

From what I'm seeing so far maybe 20% of weapons are reasonably balanced. Although most trend on the (often slightly) underpowered side. But if a weapon is even slightly worse than a mostly equivalent weapon of the same class, there's no real reason to ever use it.

smgs/pdws mostly tend to be too strong because - agian - in the classic tradition of arcade shooters, the most common engagement ranges in the game are 0-30m

[midnight tinsel]

so what weapons would you consider reasonably balanced

[lunar root]

I’m wondering that too

For some people “balanced” means “very slightly below meta”

I think the best way for the devs to see what needs a buff would be to look at the proportion of players who have unlocked a gun that use it. If it’s especially low it’s a sign it could use some tweaking

Perhaps they already do this

[mint nova]

why the chromatic aberration so high on lenses?

[lunar root]

Realism I suppose?

A higher zoom with the same quality of lens should lead to greater chromatic aberration

[mint nova]

realistically its a solved problem. Camera lenses dont have chromatic aberration anymore

[lunar root]

Camera lenses? I don’t think scopes are cameras

[mint nova]

like look at this, its like I forgot my glasses to a 3-d movie

as a sublte effect, its cool, but this is too much

[lunar root]

Personally I’ve never even noticed it, even though it’s obvious upon inspection

[lunar root]

Anyway, that’s due to digital adjustment of the picture

Which is not something a scope on a gun can do

You cannot physically make a glass magnification device that does not have any chromatic aberration

[tight pecan]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/comments/161sw7y/no_one_told_me_i_was_playing_against_agent_smith/

[mint nova]

its true you can do it with image processing, but you can also reduce the effects with flint lenses

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration#Minimization

[lunar root]

Fair

It could be reduced, I don’t have any experience with actual 4x sights to know if this is unrealistically high or not

[stuck verge]

yeah they need to patch out being able to change direction with jumping, at least the 180 part

[haughty ember]

i gotta be honest, i'm against adjusting movement because with how big hitboxes are, snipers are already extremely annoying. if they don't kill you directly you can almost guarantee you're going to die to someone else before you can finish healing.

[stuck verge]

so you're fine with being able to do 3-4 180s in mid air

[haughty ember]

yes. unless there's a heavy rework to recon (which i doubt will occur because recon players want buffs, a lot of indirect but still buffs) there's no universe where sniping doesn't become extremely oppressive if you nuke movement speed and jump turns

there's plenty of snipers that are excelling already and i hate seeing them in my lobbies. nerfing movement is a surefire way to make it impossible to do anything except sit behind cover until you die

[sleek jungle]

It literally doesnt help them. Where do people get this idea that moving like a clown constantly is somehow an advantage. You see really skilled players doing it and assume movement is broken, when in fact only 0.2% of the playerbase are even good enough to use movement like that

Join into any battlebit game and try to just move like crazy 180s and all of that

You will still just get shot and die

This type of movement is extremely situational

The only time its really useful is in face to face encounters in a room or when youre dodging sniper or AR fire from really far away

I think its completely balanced to leave it in for those instances

[haughty ember]

note: most of my complaints about recon are more map specific than recon specific (though i also just don't like instantly dying to someone i had no chance of reacting to). i think the current gameplay is fine, mostly. i'd like to see better maps and see where that leads us. (tensa is a map where recon just basically doesn't exist and i don't think it suffers for it but that's an extreme example and an outlier)

[sleek jungle]

At medium ranges if you try this weird movement you will just get deleted by other players

[haughty ember]

to expand on this slightly, on the opposite end you have maps like basra, waki, and sandy. where, given the right positioning recons can completely shut down all progression in the game due to inability to flank their positioning (due to how much they can see) and the inability to break the frontlines (due to recons being able to see everything that sticks up above cover, and what do we say about the nail that sticks up?)

[stuck verge]

Disagreed and many others disagree in that very thread.

Those moment gets more effective the further way you are, but then again you probably 100% predict where they move or something.

[haughty ember]

i mean, if you're sniping just head shot them the first time and you won't have to worry about what evasive actions they take

[red prairie]

THIS SHOULD BE FIXEDDD AS AN URGENT PROBLEM!

they fixed Q-E leaning but we still got this

[sleek jungle]

Ill actually engage in discussion with you guys if you show me clips of you encountering players like this on a daily basis

[blazing burrow]

they're just gonna post clips of me 😭

[haughty ember]

they can't post clips of me doing it because every time i go for that i die

annoyingly i usually die while evading after they miss the first like 3 or 4 shots

[sleek jungle]

bubt how often do you actually run around in a circle and air strafe like a crazy person. its super situational, maybe if youre dodging long range fire or if youre super close range and youre reloading, otherwise its just not useful

what is useful is to constantly prone and stand up againi f youre not currently running somewhere. Id say the most useful movement tech is to empty your mag on someone, quickly prone behind cover, reload, sprint out of prone, peek, shoot, reload and prone again, rinse and repeat until all enemies are dead and you run towards your next cover

i do airstrafe a lot but its not like in the clip reddit got mad about, its more like i do it while moving from one location to the next

i also jump a lot and press prone midair, landing in a prone position, this catches a lot of people off guard

[icy trail]

yes, movement while jumping needs to be patched.

this is not a mobility shooter - it is a game with bleeding mechanics, bandaging, ammo management, armored vehicles, tactical gadgets, squad/team communication, and classes where part of their unique design includes heavy armor that slows down their mobility as side effect for having more resistance. it does also have arcade elements, but by all accounts, i highly doubt the game is meant to be a full arcade highly mobile shooter to at least this extent.

i'm making this as clear as a can because I've seen a lot of arguments that plainly say that it is meant to be or is a mobility shooter - these are the same people that will also plainly say that movement speed should be increased and jump cooldown should be removed.

[sleek jungle]

Laughable if you think this is more milsim than arcade shooter.

Have you actually seen the movement ingame? The running speed is crazy fast, going crouch or prone happens instantly. Youre smoking pure copium if youre telling yourself this is a tactical team game, because the reality is that 99% of people play this game with 0 team coordination or communication.

Also once again, vehicles are not the focus of the game, infantry is.

I can send you a clip of me right now, going on a 15killstreak in Namak, during the first minute of the game. I dont use any dumb movements midair, but still by watching the footage anybody would agree that this is not a game that leans toward milsim or tactical, but rather arcade shooter. Because medic movement speed is absolutely cracked, and thats literally how 99% of players enjoy this game.
Go back to playing squad if you want to be a useless slow turtle

It simply sounds like youre a salty support player who cant keep up

[dawn plaza]

So you're saying all the classes but medic should be removed?

[sleek jungle]

No, but buff them in other meaningful ways. For example they could make it so support is needed for squad spawns or spawn beacons, and defensive structures. This would make support way more useful than he is now.

[dawn plaza]

And yet support would still be far less competent in a gun duel than any other class

Rebalancing the movement at least a little would make all the classes a bit more equal in that regard

[fleet heart]

instead should just give support the option to run lighter armor and backpack in return for movement speed like rest of the classes

[lunar root]

In an isolated scenario like a gun duel I’d say it’s certainly the most competent class

[dawn plaza]

If you're already posted, sure. Unfortunately, support has zero room for reacting in most cases, and half this game, according to jasper, is running around like you've just taken a crack/adrenaline mixture, whipping around corners like you're in speed racer

[lunar root]

Does depend on the guns used and the range for how much that makes sense
The slow aim down times don’t matter if you’re close enough to hip fire and support will spend a lot of time already ADS, it’s just the playstyle

The fast paced playstyle wouldn’t really work in a 1v1 if you aren’t in enclosed spaces, it’s more for avoiding being killed while getting as many enemies as possible dead

[sleek jungle]

Honestly support would already be more viable if armor breaking also is reflected in movement speed.
Like once all your heavy armor broke, you shouldnt be slowed down by it anymore

[dawn plaza]

So much yes

[lunar root]

even for realism there’s no reason whatsoever why you shouldn’t be able to just take off the armour once it became useless

[dawn plaza]

I mean, modern armor is just inserted plates, right? Couldn't you just, you know, take the suckers out once they broke?

[lunar root]

Yeah

[dawn plaza]

Honestly that one change would make playing support so much better

[delicate sleet]

Hey, can you make a feature that enables to interrupt a scoping mode with your movements key. I`ve experienced a few moments when my characted was slowed down while reloading, because i didnt scoped off before to reload

[cobalt warren]

oh finally, someone who shares the same problem as i do

its more notable on handguns however

since they dont have the ADS while reloading animation

#1138534079499862208 message

i posted a video about this a few weeks back

no animation or anything to indicate that you are in ADS outside of the movespeed

[delicate sleet]

It affects every weapon that have ads, from rpg to ak

it`s kinda annoying

[cobalt warren]

ARs and SMGs do have an animation for that however

[delicate sleet]

just to be slowed down by this

[cobalt warren]

so you can stay in ADS while reloading (not the case for the pistols, havent tested gadgets)

but yeah they do need aim cancelling while moving or sprinting

[blazing burrow]

yea this is very annoying if you use toggle ADS

[icy trail]

i thought i made it very clear that there is a fair amount of arcade aspects in this game as well, but these aspects do not make the game fully arcade either, neither does one class, nor a handful of movement exploits.
i think movement to this degree is subject to a rebalance because its current state takes away from the game's satisfying balance between arcade and tactical gameplay. a jump should have commitment to the direction you've jumped toward and player should only be able to change directions when they are grounded.

[sleek jungle]

I see youre just a milsim dad and i wont change your mind. Sorry that your aging neurons cant keep up anymore

[exotic timber]

Nerf air movement just like lean spam was nerfed!

[sly marsh]

Well people who use armour would be annoyed if it was removed

And its implausible to make medics 200hp mach ten juggernaughts thus people who run no armour will always be unhappy as they cant have everything

But this is why its good

[midnight tinsel]

people who use armor don't like armor rn

That's the thing

People in this thread ask for even more exo buffs and armor buffs

[sly marsh]

Nah im talking about people who run like normal armour

If they didnt like it they wouldnt run it

[midnight tinsel]

They run it because unlike heavy or exo it has minimal penalty

same with helmets

not to mention it's default

[haughty ember]

i'm running ranger for extra mags because otherwise i run out, i'd run no chest if i could get another mag and more move speed. and no head armor for the ads speed

but fighting armor cough support cough is what's forcing the leg meta rn. because you run into issues where shots hit the different armor hitboxes and so you end up needing 1-2-3 extra shots to kill somebody

and that ttk diff usually results in a lost fight.

idk what the solution is to fix armor, getting rid of it is probably the easiest but worst solution. but something needs to change

[blazing burrow]

just copy PUBG, CS:GO, VAL, etc.

% reduction, but damage bleeds through. Basically solves all the armor problems at once.

It'd take a bit of time to balance the numbers properly but the end result would be worth the effort; it solves basically all the problems with armor in one pass.

[sleek jungle]

Exactly. No need to reinvent the wheel here

Wow is it just me or is wheel actualy a fucking weird word to spell, i had to check if it wasnt wrong. It looks weird on paper

[haughty ember]

i'll have whatever he's having

especially if it makes my connection to the servers better because holy fuck. am i not allowed to play today either?

[earnest abyss]

🪖 Prone Dropping 🪖

🎯 its broken like in cod games, because you suffer no aim penalty while doing so. You just keep your ads still while prone dropping in battlebit.

🩹 Simply adding camera shake to prone dropping would not only make it realistic but also balance it.

☝️ Even leaning has small (when you spam it) ads penalty effect

[earnest abyss]

AND gun CONTROL stat would determine how strong that camera shake will be.

[earnest abyss]

but 100% ( and 1.00+) control should not eliminate it completely.

[sleek jungle]

Get good mate. Stop trying to make this game a copy of every other shooter already out there. Drop shotting is absolutely 0% a problem. Its fucking rare that anyone does it to begin with

And if you get killed by getting dropshotted, maybe consider the crazy possibility of just moving your crosshair down and shooting at the person.

Seriously why are so many people trying to remove features that raise the skill ceiling to the game, it puzzles me

[nocturne widget]

cry is free

[earnest abyss]

you have not provided any counter arguments

[earnest abyss]

im not the one getting killed, im the one killing everybody with just a press of a button

[sleek jungle]

What are you talking about? You havent explained why you think its broken to begin with. Do you even realize that 99% of players never even dropshot

[earnest abyss]

still, few ppl that do ( like me) shouldnt able to have something to abuse)

[earnest abyss]

read my post again

what prone droping does, is instant hit boxes manipulation

[sleek jungle]

What does the game stand to gain by removing it. Is it abusing aim that my aim is just way better than other players aim? How the fuck is it abusing it

[earnest abyss]

almost instant *

[earnest abyss]

hit box manipulation like lean spamming

[sleek jungle]

So what? Everyone can learn to do it. It raises the skill ceilimg because its a skill you can learn that increases your survivability

[earnest abyss]

lean spam is getting removed for a reason

dimwit

[sleek jungle]

Why remove something that raises the skill ceiling, im not talking about lean spam

[earnest abyss]

if that is getting fixed, why not fix other stuff like lean spam

[sleek jungle]

Lean spam is different because it was completely free to do with no downsides whatsoever

[earnest abyss]

skill in pressing a single button? 💀

no skill in lean spaming either

[sleek jungle]

Dropshotting puts you in a worse position, you have low mobility on the ground. Its not universally an advantage

[earnest abyss]

LOL

then why i get so many kills with that against group of ppl ?

[sleek jungle]

Because most people fucking suck at the game

[earnest abyss]

like, wiping squads constantly with that

[sleek jungle]

And you would kill them anyway

[earnest abyss]

because hit box manipulation

you droping prone almost instantly

(hitbox)

[earnest abyss]

lol, no

[sleek jungle]

Bruh people like you puzzle me. Why do you want the game to be slower

[earnest abyss]

if i was messing with their aim i would die constantly

[sleek jungle]

Proning a lot is a huge advantage and is key to fighting off multiple opponents at once

[earnest abyss]

because its a tactical shooter and not a movment shooter like apex or cod games, dimwit

go back to your cod games

[sleek jungle]

Youre the type of guy who would advocate to remove rocket jumping in tf2 because it makes soldier too mobile

[earnest abyss]

1v1 is just a s good

[earnest abyss]

LOL

[sleek jungle]

Let me 1v1 you and i bet ill shred you without ever dropshotting

[earnest abyss]

tf2 is acrade shooter, dude where are your braincels ?

[sleek jungle]

This is an arcade shooter

Its battlebit remastered for a reason

[faint furnace]

You get kills when you dropshot? I usually just die lmao

[blazing burrow]

use it properly and it's good, use it poorly and it'll get you killed. It's a tool at your disposal but it's not a one size fit all technique

I usually use it to dip behind cover or in 1vX situations before I take return fire

[gray tangle]

god plz, every other game does this.

[cobalt warren]

this and input queue

[uncut kayak]

1v1s are for wimps, I’ll take you all on at once and win. My kd is infinite.

[earnest abyss]

Most of the time ppl don't expect it, plus it really does mess with people's aim, unlike lean spam (where ppl shouldn't aim for the head since ttk is so fast you are better off aiming at the chest. Seriously, only tryhards complained about lean spam)

Honestly, Oki really needs to up the headshot dmg, its literally worthless except for deagle and dmrs.

Like, by 0.5 for all weapons

Except for snipers ofc

Feels good when helmets actually save you life

[hallow totem]

**last post repeat
game lost another 30% from total playerbase since last one, took 2 weeks instead of 1 **
#1138534079499862208 message
#1138534079499862208 message
now its obvious even for braindead that game is dying so fast and only god knows when it gonna at least stop and stagnate
the reasons is obvious and was written by me in first post
total playerbase loss since peak is 85%, daily lowest is 5700 players which is insanely low for such mass pvp game
last gun changes in upcoming updates was good, but not good enough, some guns probably wont be buffed enough, which is mistake, overbuffing is > underbuffing for this game, rotate the meta of guns, thats not the best balance way but thousand times better from what we have now
ideally core of balance must be changed completely from all guns being low range screen shakers with 1 meter before dmg drop to something bf3-4 like, most of the players came here to play battlefield not battlebit, battlebit brings zero shit to the genre and every aspect where it trying to be different and recreate a wheel its questionable at best and usually simply trash, but thats different topic
make the guns fun oki, nobody gonna play the game that almost purely focused on shooting when 2/3 of all guns is trash even if its best on every other aspect, and battlebit is so far from being perfect in some other aspects too
**my work is done here, cya in the future of this funny game battlebit, if its exist ofcourse **

[nocturne widget]

friendly reminder to completely ignore matoi
he does this with every game he plays, he provides worthless feedback and tries to instill fear that the game is gonna die!!!

[balmy heart]

Yeah

Looks like a dick

[earnest abyss]

🎯 Headshot Damage Multiplier.🧠

After 191+ hours of playtime with different weapons, with 100% certainty i can assure you that you are better off aiming at the chest rather then head, with the exception of deagle and sniper rifles ofc and maybe, just maaaaybe with dmrs.

Thing is, ttk is so fast in this game, it makes headshot dmg multiplier almost meaningless. Sure it takes one shot less to kill, but we are talking miliseconds here, not to mention you need to actually hit your shots, which easier said then done even with big head hit boxes battlebit has.

Up that multiplier by aditional 0.5 points (except sniper rifles). It will generally increase ttk further, but in return it will present some actual skill ceiling to the game, where currently its only a skill floor of crutch meta.

[haughty ember]

Just stopping by to let you know that a hs multiplier won’t fix the problem because it’s related to the armor implementation. If you don’t hit only head shots or only chest shots you end up “wasting” bullets on a target due to the other armor piece absorbing them. (Unless you hit limbs) that’s why we’re in legs meta because the majority is hitting both armor pieces in an engagement and needing 1-2 more bullets to kill

[earnest abyss]

You are telling me that limb damage is not x0.5?

[haughty ember]

It is not. And doing so with current armor implementation would be awful

(Also could you imagine .5 limb damage with those big ass block arms covering the chest wtf?)

[tight pecan]

all guns should have a burst option that fires exactly the number of bullets to kill with a chest shot

[sly marsh]

No

[haughty ember]

Add m16 with single fire and burst. 3 hit kill to body (:

[tight pecan]

why not, it will give you a feel of how many bullets it actually takes! 🙂

[sly marsh]

its just not helpful and no one would use it but u

[inner pine]

burst fire sucks in games and in rl xD

[sly marsh]

Burst is better than semi auto but full auto is better than burst

[uncut kayak]

I mean… better in what regard? It’s not as simple as burst>single fire

[tight pecan]

I just thought people would enjoy the data point
"it takes 1 more bullet if the person has RNG armor"
when in reality it probably takes 2-3 times as many bullets as they think/say and the 1 more isn't relevent

[earnest abyss]

Yeah, will force you to better aim where you shoot.

[haughty ember]

that's the shittiest take i've ever seen. i guess you'd kill all smg's/pdw's from viability instantly so good for you for coming up with the literal worst solution

we're in leg meta right now because armor is frustrating as fuck no matter how good your aim is. why would you make the game worse instead of trying to fix the actual problem that is CAUSING people to shoot legs instead of body?

[lunar root]

I don’t really see why that’s a problem. If parts of the enemy are unarmored you should aim for those

like look at this dude
limb shots would definitely be quite sensible there

[haughty ember]

idk man, i just do what works. shooting at the body? don't work, because recoil/movement can cause you to hit head armor and now you done wasted some ammo and possibly died. shooting the legs? consistent if a little weird to get used to

if you made limb damage .5 modifier you'd nuke probably 90% of the guns into unplayability and everyone would use scar/ak15/fal because you'd still 5 hit if you hit limbs vs, let's use an extreme example, a 10 hit kill with the vector if they were within 10m

like wtf lol

[lunar root]

I could check how much of a difference that would make but I doubt it would greatly shift around a ranking of gun ttks

[haughty ember]

i mean, doubling a weapons ttk would be pretty wild

[sleek jungle]

why are you on this crusade against dropshotting, nobody agrees with you

[haughty ember]

because he's the god of battlebit haven't you read his posts? it's 2 ez 4 him to just frag out and he never loses or smth

he never dies if he drop shots so clearly drop shotting has to go

[sleek jungle]

yeah i also always complain about mechanics that bring me dopamine and make me enjoy winning sprees, instead of complaining about dynamics i loose against because i lack skill

i totally believe him

[earnest abyss]

What, i never said i dont die xd
I dont die when i should because of this hitbox manipulation

[haughty ember]

maybe they should just aim better. i don't have a problem killing drop shotters and i suck

[sleek jungle]

yes this

i dont have problems killing dropshotters either

[haughty ember]

drop shotting has been popular for like 20 years, i'd hope people have gotten used to dealing with it

[earnest abyss]

Yeah, if the do that on range its easy to adjust your aim

But when you disappear under ppl face, well, different story. Saved my ass 90% of time

[haughty ember]

i mean, sounds like your opponents just weren't good enough, in 200 hours i can count on one hand the amount of times lean spam or drop shotting combined made a difference to save my opponent

it's really not that strong

[earnest abyss]

I could say same for lean spamming, yet that thing is getting a fix

Never had a problem with lean spammers

[haughty ember]

the funny thing about lean spam is that if you play the game how you should be it literally doesn't matter because you should be shooting center mass or legs. it's only the people who are playing incorrectly for the current game design and trying to hit headshots that would have a problem with it

armor needs a rework to fix those issues though. has nothing to do with lean or drop shotting or w/e

[earnest abyss]

Yup, headshot multiplier is useless with fast ttk this game has

[haughty ember]

most weapons just don't have a good headshot multiplier either

[earnest abyss]

Ive made a post about it xd

[haughty ember]

even if they gave them a good multiplier it doesn't fix the issues with armor. or make shooting legs less consistent

[earnest abyss]

Yeah, still work to do after that

[haughty ember]

the 1% players would benefit, the above average players wouldn't care. and the bad players probably wouldn't see a difference

[earnest abyss]

Not 1% loo

Most people aim for the head not knowing multiplier is not worth it

[granite pivot]

headshots are still worth

it's not just the HS mult you need to look at

[earnest abyss]

Its buggles my mind why its not 2.0x for ars and dmrs

[haughty ember]

84 damage headshot with fal

[granite pivot]

unless you're only going for legs, the lower helmet armor is a pretty significant factor

[earnest abyss]

They are not since you cant always hit all the shots

[granite pivot]

well obv you don't go for headshots all the time

you just do when you can

[earnest abyss]

Fal dmg is too high for its recoil and firerate

38 would be better

[earnest abyss]

Which is 70% of the time

[granite pivot]

idk the percentage for me, but in cqc, it's going to be pretty high

[earnest abyss]

Other 30 is whe target is stationary or unaware

[granite pivot]

cqc which is most of the time anyway

[earnest abyss]

Cqc is like what? 10-20 meters?

[granite pivot]

0-30ish for me i'd say

[earnest abyss]

Ranges that you imply are about 10m max

At that point surely head becomes big enough to aim at, but constant movement and aim punch still will mess with your aim enough to miss crucial shots

Thats why its need to be 2.0 (1,5 to smgs/pdws)

[granite pivot]

nah the head is a massive block

that's why the hs mults are what they are

in most other fps titles, the head isn't so big

[ancient meteor]

a bit off topic, but it really pisses me off that the devs have been sitting on already completed weapon changes for 6 god damn days now

i do not give a single shit if they are part of some weird, out of the blue minor update 2.1 or whatever. that would be better than not getting them at all

[dawn plaza]

I could see maybe a .9 or .8 multiplier on limb hits

Not enough to nuke it, just enough to make body or headshots more viable

[haughty ember]

body and headshots need to be made viable by armor not being awful

[dawn plaza]

I'd say that should be something that also needs to happen, but either way headshots should be the most rewarded option.

[haughty ember]

they would be if armor wasn't the way it is

for reference, exo chest support takes 8 body shots to break the armor and kill with the vector. it takes 2 headshots with the vector on exo and heavy helmets just to break the helmet. if you get any alternating shots (ie: hitting a mixture of body and head) you just lose. the risk is not worth the reward. that's an extreme example but it's frustrating af. especially with the servers being as wack as they have been. i got 1 framed by someone earlier, actually 2 different someones but yeah. shit's bad

if we had some stable servers that would go a long way. but fixing armor to not give someone essentially 2 lives would probably make a big difference too

[exotic timber]

Yeah, but support players with exo armor can't even shoot you back because their ADS, fire rates, recoil, and accuracy are worse.

[haughty ember]

if they can't shoot back when it takes anywhere from 8-10 shots to kill them they're literally not looking at the screen. don't make that excuse bro

[granite pivot]

🤨

support guns generally have similar TTKs to their assault rifle counterparts

[midnight tinsel]

But worse recoil and velocity

[granite pivot]

and then there's the L86 with one of the fastest TTKs

[midnight tinsel]

See above

[granite pivot]

yes, you trade mag size for worse recoil, which is what iw as getting to next

but it is what it is-- a tradeoff

and it's not like the recoil is that much worse, it's still very manageable

[midnight tinsel]

No, you trade mag size for worse ADS, runspeed, velocity, recoil, reloadspeed, and idk probably your virginity too

Oh, and control

[granite pivot]

velocity difference barely matters, literally everything with a big mag has lower reload speed (live with it) and worse ADS speed makes sense from both a gameplay and realism perspective

run speed is primarily due to support being locked into heavy/exo armor

[midnight tinsel]

So why does it need more recoil

[exotic timber]

You can fire 20 rounds in a second with a Vector, so 8-10 shots is half a second.

[granite pivot]

because everything else with a big mag also gets worse recoil in the game

big mags are super powerful, god forbid it has some tradeoffs

[midnight tinsel]

And who's using those big mags

Genuinely

[midnight tinsel]

It's not some

It's all

[granite pivot]

if we're talking about extended mags? only people meming

because they're trash

[midnight tinsel]

Yep

So by extension

[granite pivot]

which makes support having innately large magazine sizes even all the more useful

[midnight tinsel]

And you missed the point

[granite pivot]

with lower tradeoffs compared to using an extended mag attachment

[granite pivot]

what point

[midnight tinsel]

Nevermind

[granite pivot]

k

[midnight tinsel]

Sounds like you wouldn't care about a velocity and handling buff since armors what makes it slow anyways

And I mean, since attachments, extended mag included are getting reworked anyways, maybe we'll see the recoil penalty removed overall

[granite pivot]

last time i checked, control as a stat didn't even do anything if that's what you're referring to

the velocity difference isn't too big to matter for me

[midnight tinsel]

TBH still trying to figure it out

but it is the lowest

on support guns

I'm not even sure oki knows what it does

[granite pivot]

idk why they'd have lower velocity 🤷

doesn't seem to be any justification for it whether for game balance or for realism

[midnight tinsel]

I at minimum want a velocity bump

[granite pivot]

that'd make sense to me

i want support to have access to at least normal-level armor

but that's for the other thread

[midnight tinsel]

I mean

the class does

it's just locked at level 120

and the backpacks are bugged

[granite pivot]

it does? never even noticed and i have it unlocked

[midnight tinsel]

yup

It should just be the default

same with m249

[granite pivot]

yeah

also needs new guns in general

[midnight tinsel]

fucking yea

[granite pivot]

kept hearing how they have 16 guns ready to go, a bunch of which are going to support

https://tenor.com/view/maes-b-lost-in-a-field-pulp-fiction-john-travolta-gif-14829328

where the fuck are they

[midnight tinsel]

can't do jack shit with balance when you only have 4 guns to tweak

Recoil is ok where it is but if we're going by theoreticals, the recoil being slightly higher if at all is a pointless downside, you're already caught out with a long ADS time and a middle of the road ttk, and from both real and gameplay perspectives a set up LMG should be lethal as hell even against an AR

the king of defense and allat

but velocity first, some new guns so that people have options, and doing something about heavy/exo armor

[desert tulip]

No point in using an AR when you have the mp5 with less recoil lol

[midnight tinsel]

Yea but that's the MP5 specifically

the other SMGs cooperate

[cobalt zealot]

All smgs should have shorter fall off like the vector. Maybe not as extreme. But I don’t think smgs should be competing with ARs at mid range.

[lunar root]

What do you class as mid range

[ancient meteor]

i want to say 75-150m, but the presence of some extremely small maps (salhan, tensa, frugis) means 50-100m would feel more appropriate to call "mid range". its different on maps like waki and sandy and eduardo, but with the exception of waki, those maps arent very often played so it doesnt feel right to give the same amount of value to the gameplay experience on those maps as I would give to the gameplay experience on tensa and salhan

[sly marsh]

yes this isnt a milsim so the falloff needs to be nerfed

[tight pecan]

right now damage curve seems to be just two points, max damage in one side and min damage on the other

smgs "could" be setup where there is, say, a sharper cutoff to halfish damage, then a more gradual drop to what you think could be max range.
idea being you dont have to keep tweaking this curve, you have a defined "smgs mess you up under 50m, then do a lot less"

[mortal coral]

Its a bezier curve

[nocturne delta]

SMGs needed a range nerf not a damage buff. What a joke. They were already strong in their intended range they dont need to be even faster in cqc

[sly marsh]

tbf it was the weaker smgs buffed

which i support, i can count the times i was killed by the buffed weapons on 2 hands

[lunar root]

PP2000 is now the strongest SMG imo

[cobalt warren]

really?

i need to try it out again ig, havent tried the new patch

because when i read that it was getting buffed i was like
"does this thing actually need a buff?"

@lunar root keep in mind that i use the pp2000 almost exclusively with the supressor and ext mag

got a damage buff and firerate buff, so curious to see how this performs

my guess is that its gonna be slightly overtuned

[quiet harness]

yeah PP2000 was already a lasergun one of the more accurate smgs for its low horiz recoil, now it has the lowest ads time. No attachments makes me sad though

testing TTK + ADS time gets me ~400ms on vector and ~365ms on PP2000(using 5 bodyshots with timescale .1) though its hard to replicate this shit so there's some error. Its also way easier to hit headshots with such a low horiz recoil as with vector bullets will miss to the right and left of the head

[quiet harness]

go into shooting range and try to kill an enemy from 100 range with and smg

that shit takes the whole mag

[cobalt warren]

i think the pp2000 needs a revert

its slightly overtuned

[tight pecan]

Ive only vaguely tried the pp2000 , iirc the recoil was managable but the cone was preeeeetty huge

[ancient meteor]

i think PP2000 is in a much better state than it was, but yes ever so slightly overtuned. could do with a larger nerf to its damage range, just like all of the SMGs

[robust pivot]

Sometime when a bullet isnt hitting anywhere near me it sounds like it is. Anyone else notice that?

[nova abyss]

I'd like to have the gun's firemode reset upon death to the default firemode, a few times I will have switched my normally automatic mode to single shot, then die, then respawn and not realize its still single shot. This can be frustrating. If nothing else, have it as a toggle button in the options, I am sure some people probably like the mode being saved between respawns.

[summer path]

This, your sight selection goes back to default so why doesn't fire mode?

[ancient meteor]

i feel you should be able to simply select the default fire mode per-gun. semi is nice to have on M4 but id rather spawn with it set to full-auto every spawn, whereas full-auto is nice to have on Fal but id rather spawn with it set to semi

[blazing burrow]

I've never spawned with any gun not on full auto if that is avail

[compact kernel]

No doubt ttk and firerate need a nerf the gunplay is totally not healthy right now. Its not about skill its about who saw who first. The lack of classes differency is also a big factor

[lunar root]

Fast ttk allows for a higher skill ceiling as well though

If the game had a ttk of several seconds for example, a top tier player could take a small group of people by surprise and get destroyed

Right now doing well depends on taking your enemies by surprise, so numbers of targets don’t matter as much as they otherwise would

[haughty ember]

idk, ttk seems fine to me, when the servers work anyway.

[compact kernel]

@lunar root i understand your point. But a slight longer ttk wouldnt be bad for the skillceiling. The game revolve too mich about flanking and killing people offguard not realizing their an enemy in range

Add the fact that every gun is a beamong especially amg at any range doesnt help too

[inner pine]

it's part of the skill to know where and when to flank tho

[compact kernel]

Beaming*

[haughty ember]

wouldn't a longer ttk only further emphasize flanking as surprising someone gives you more time to get damage out for free?

[compact kernel]

@inner pine flanking has nothing to do with ttk is a skill itself im actualy talking about the gunplay

[inner pine]

ye smgs need to be hit with a range brick atleast, optionally some more recoil to keep em from lasering

[haughty ember]

and then there's no way to lose because you already flanked them?

[lunar root]

No, this is backwards. You would have the same amount of time to do free damage but in that time you would be able to do less

[inner pine]

if you have long ttk then you can't flank as effectively

[haughty ember]

if they do drop off nerfs to all smg's is prolly fine, vector is still usable atleast

[compact kernel]

@inner pine dont mean this game to be apex legend ttk. Just a slight buff to ttk is needed to actusly have somekind of gunplay skill ceiling

[lunar root]

There is one and it is quite high

[compact kernel]

There no gunplay skill at all. Everything is beaming who saw first win. Your dead in a milie second without being hs.

[haughty ember]

balancing ttk vs the skill it takes to win in a gunfight isn't as simple as just cranking up ttk though. like right now you can flank and be flanked and still win. if you crank up ttk different skill sets become more important, like tracking, which fun fact, way more people suck ass at tracking than at reactionary aim, so in the process of raising the skill ceiling you'd make the game way less fun to play. obviously an extreme example of this is halo

[haughty ember]

disagree. hard disagree because i'm one of the people getting too damn old for these fast shooters and I can do extremely well on this game

i get tons of turn around kills

[compact kernel]

You can do well on this game cause out 126 players half of them have no idea where they got shot from or that theres one guy behind them that flanked killing them one by one

[haughty ember]

my gameplay style is to go take an enemy obj in front of their base and keep fighting everyone coming back to try again because i already killed them once

has nothing to do with flank kills

[compact kernel]

I know ive been there an im old guy too. Used to play cs csgo, I know about gunplay.

I understand your point of view, but i strongly believe a slight tttk buff would do wonder to this game.

[haughty ember]

okay, what change does increasing ttk across the board actually achieve?

it just takes longer?

to whose benefit?

like, what problem does this solve?

[inner pine]

none, apart from allowing someone with their back to you to still turn around, bust your flank and dying
wow so fun, i would've died anyway but i saw the enemy for like 0.1s that's gonna fix every issue this game has
but irony aside, why? this is a casual game with milsim elements, are we just gonna yeet those because some people just don't react as quickly as others? this is coming from a casual that likes some hardcore elements in some games btw

[haughty ember]

idk man, like, you'd have to crank ttk up rather severely to make a consistent noticeable gameplay difference (because otherwise all that happens is what you mentioned, the lemmings still die but now they get to turn around and do damage to a flanker sometimes for no real reason) and in the process you'd completely kill the game.

[inner pine]

i mean i am a lemming, but i know how to do some flanking and 1v1s

[haughty ember]

pretty much where im at. getting way too old for this lmfao. game is gonna have me icing my hands again soon

[inner pine]

i'm young thus i don't have years of experience, but i am learning to not be another bot running into the enemy with their eyes closed, sometimes

[blazing burrow]

The games movement is so fast that increasing the TTK would have a huge impact for survivability, it would become even more difficult to kill good players. At the same time, it would reduce the impact of flanking playstyles(giving opponents more time to react in 1vX situations). I don't think it's needed; the games TTK is in a pretty good spot. You can already guestimate what increased TTK would be like by playing against players in different armors which would give you an idea of how many bullets it actually takes to kill. Imagine moving at medic speed with support armor, for example. Or even medium/heavy armor.

Increasing TTK would not help you old guys at all, it would actually make it harder for you. Most mil-sim games have virtually no TTK(1-2 bullets kill) because that makes it MUCH easier for bad players to get a lucky kill here and there.

If TTK were increased, it would require a massive movespeed nerf in order to work, and imo that would just suck

[haughty ember]

a ttk increase would ruin me, because i cannot track properly to save my life. my eyes literally cannot smoothly track a target

i guess i could still schmove on people but that's really it

[inner pine]

i'd prolly just go snipe, no reason to risk yourself if every enemy soaks up 6-9 bullets with an ar 💀

[haughty ember]

i'd probably just quit. or if fal was still playable just let people run into my crosshair and die

[inner pine]

l86 with lb

[granite pivot]

Don't worry we can fix that by making snipers require two headshots to kill

[inner pine]

[exotic timber]

Nerfing move speed would be an alternative to increasing/decreasing TTK, and would help the 'old men'. You would actually have to consider whether it's safe to go from A to B, instead of just running without a care in the world because you know that nobody can shoot you unless they are directly in front or behind.

[midnight tinsel]

you do risk losing a bit of the arcade crowd that joined the game

[mortal coral]

More like any of them that don't play perk servers

[midnight tinsel]

Perk servers?

One thing to note is that movement nerfs would make the game even more like battlefield, which isn't net good

[mortal coral]

Servers with perks

[sly marsh]

as of yesterday night, L mp5 users never again will u beam me at 150m

[lunar root]

The gun was useless at 150m

[nova abyss]

I disagree, the movement speed is what makes the game enjoyable to play. I am a "old man", (millennial), have no issues with my KD or score with medic class, don't need any help. I grew up playing games like UT99 and Tribes 2, with fast paced movement. The recent trend of slow paced shooters is unpleasant.

[exotic timber]

At least in those games, you had inertia, and can't just turn 180 in midair...

[haughty ember]

didn't those games also have like, bunny hopping?

which are way more powerful movement tools than just... turning really fast

[exotic timber]

either way, I like a more grounded, realistic game, which are closer to the CoD and BF games, using realistic guns and human capabilities and such, as opposed to the "Arena" shooters

[ancient meteor]

yep. this games movement system isnt "good" so much as it is extremely primitive

not necessarily a bad thing, the other core mechanics of a shooter are more important to get done properly first

but i have never once seen a game that is nearly as bad as this game is about literally wiggling your mouse to avoid shots

if you dont have an M200 and are beyond x distance, wiggling turns your sniper shots into a lottery

or you just move on to the next victim altogether

there are good ways to implement "avoiding snipers" and there is wiggling

[haughty ember]

honestly, good. fuck snipers. should've killed me on the first shot before i started wiggling

i'd be down for inertia if we could get bhop/slide hop. i have a small background in titanfall, i'd love to make use of it here

[mortal coral]

Mmm yes mw2019 and bf4 very grounded 🗿

And mw2022 so grounded that they used slide cancelling as an advertising point for 2023

[haughty ember]

oh are they bringing back slide canceling?

[mortal coral]

Yes

[haughty ember]

that's fucking hilarious. they killed all the movement tech and made running around even worse of a playstyle then had to backpeddle because people started snaking and ratting instead

[mortal coral]

Its kinda weirdge since tac sprint resets itself automatically

[haughty ember]

cod is so bad i'd rather go see what the janitor at respawn has been cooking. i hear titanfall 2 has been getting updates again

[exotic timber]

It's still closer to realism than arena shooters

[mortal coral]

[haughty ember]

10/10

[haughty ember]

excessive realism bad, as we've seen from the nerfs to smg's because the community can't handle them being good

unless you wanna say we should get real life vector

[exotic timber]

If the LMGs and movement speeds and such were realistic to match, I wouldn't complain

[haughty ember]

besides, this game is closer to call of duty than apex legends is to being titanfall 2

and apex legends is literally BR titanfall 2 with gutted movement tech

[mortal coral]

Depends does it come with 13 rnd mags

[haughty ember]

the vector is designed to accept glock magazines... can you say "50 round drum mag"?

[mortal coral]

🗿

[exotic timber]

Isn't there already a drum mag for the vector?

[haughty ember]

yeah but it's bad

like 5 second reload, ads speed is bad, draw speed bad, recoil bad

run speed i think also gets nerfed by it?

it's just bad

[mortal coral]

Also

P90:

[haughty ember]

i'm a little sad about the p90 nerf. i just prestiged man. after putting like 3k kills on the p90 in last prestige alone

now i'm gonna have to find a new toy T.T

prolly going back to vector, since it still prints salt

[ancient meteor]

i know, i respond faster than you can think. im a pro-responder

[pulsar flint]

I think recon class / snippers are totally broken at this moment. I get sniped left and right all the time. No matter running at full speed, left right, jumping, driving a car flying helicopter, hiding behind a rock, siting in a room without windows... poof one shot from 2 KM and dead. I think there must be some bug related to how snipper kills are calculated. I get shot when hiding in rooms. I run to cover and just as I jump in a room and hide I sill got sniped. Also snipers should be limited, similar to vehicles. There are just too many of them around in some maps. I know that 2 km shots happen in real life but they are extremely rare and only if a target is in stationary position. Not when running, or flying a helicopter. That just shouldn't happen.

[sly marsh]

Skill issue?

[pulsar flint]

Skill in running?

I run to cover, hide in a building and bam still get a headshot from some ridiculous distance.

[sly marsh]

Yes do u not know how to airstrafe

[pulsar flint]

I do, I do that all the time, still get sniped non stop.

Probably I should record it.

[lunar root]

Snipers being a big issue does just imply you’re doing a bad job at countering them

Hiding only works against snipers when you’re 100% concealed, even if a tiny bit of you is showing you will be easy to hit

[sly marsh]

Then its literally sniper W like the aim u need to hit the shots ur describing is crazy

Apart from the out of cars that is easy af

[swift frigate]

100% limb damage definitely feels bullshit from this perspective. Anyone that's not a medic probably will try to run to some corner to bandage at some point and the high base damage of snipers means that they will almost surely kill them even by just nicking the tip of their foot.

[pulsar flint]

I been sniped flying a helicopter at full speed earlier today. Wasn't first time either.

[nocturne widget]

gun balance feels like it's the worst it has ever been. UMP, groza, and M110 are grossly overtuned. meanwhile guns like HK419 or RSH12 still have pretty much no reason to exist whatsoever

[inner pine]

the m110's alr, the groza and ump should be reworked tho

[uncut kayak]

The groza and the M110 are good but definitely not overtuned. Guns are allowed to be good.

[swift frigate]

What makes M110 feel OP is a combination of crappy audio cues that makes it hard to tell who's firing what at you from where and the recent netcode jankiness that makes you get killed in a single frame.

[nocturne widget]

i wanted to give M110 the benefit of the doubt, but like, it's just really not fun to fight
by the time the first shot connects, you cannot reasonably respond and react before the second shot connects. according to google "The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus". meanwhile the difference between the first shot and the second shot connecting can be as little as 0.10-0.20s (i timed it by reviewing footage in adobe premiere, and could get it as low as 0.06 seconds at 50 meters)

[nocturne widget]

guns are allowed to be good, but guns like the groza aren't just good, they're overtuned. one of the fastest TTKs in the game and virtually no recoil

[swift frigate]

A lot of guns in this game have sub-human reaction time TTK even before you account for lag, and this is something I strongly disagree with, but changing that would involve majorly altering a core part of the game. Really doubt the devs want to risk such a large change, so this will probably have to be left for community servers for the foreseeable future.

[nocturne widget]

i think it's not that big of an issue when you actively have to track your opponent. but with the M110 you only need to connect 2 bodyshots. even sniper rifles aren't that lenient; if you hit a bodyshot, chances are they'll have time to bandage up and heal before you can get the 2nd bodyshot in

[uncut kayak]

The time cannot be any faster than 0.2 seconds due to the fire rate of the gun lol

The m110 fires at 300rpm which means there is always 0.2 seconds at least between shots.

Most guns in the game have a ttk of between 0.1 and 0.2 seconds. The m110 is not unique in any way.

[nocturne widget]

refer to my previous message

[uncut kayak]

Refer to the part where almost every gun in the game has a ttk below 0.2 seconds already.

The m4 has a ttk of 0.171
The ak15 0.11
The scar-h 0.12
The vector 0.15
The p90 0.15
The mp7 0.189
The m249 0.171

The list goes on for a while

[inner pine]

that is not right buddy XD

the scorp hast 150ms ttk, how tf does the p90 achieve the same ttk?

[uncut kayak]

The scorpion Evo has an optimal ttk of 0.1

[inner pine]

the vector has 200ms, m4 has 257ms and those are the ones ik from the top of my head, the only correct one is the mp7

[uncut kayak]

You are looking at body shot ttk numbers. That’s your disconnect.

[inner pine]

you're effing kidding me dude

[dawn plaza]

Body shot ttk is a far more reasonable expectation for anything other than dmrs

[uncut kayak]

Do you want me to run through the math with you?

Because I am willing and able

[dawn plaza]

Assuming headshot ttk is the average, or even viable most of the time is an extreme overreach

[uncut kayak]

Read “optimal ttk”

Not average

[inner pine]

oh i believe you but no one worth their damn talks about hs ttk when discussing ttk, unless specifically called out

[uncut kayak]

And a higher fire rate is always an extreme advantage in terms of forgiveness anyway.

[swift frigate]

Uhh what is even the purpose of the discussion at this point? M110 TTK is not that low compared to other guns, yeah?

[uncut kayak]

Sorry man but I have genuinely never heard of anyone using that convention literally ever.

[uncut kayak]

It’s not particularly low and it’s also not particularly forgiving.

[inner pine]

no one talks about hs ttk when using ttk as a baseline is what i'm saying

[uncut kayak]

What I’m saying is I have genuinely never heard anyone use anything other than headshot ttk except in edge cases.

Ttk isn’t an all important stat either

[dawn plaza]

All I know is that I feel dirty when using m110 when compared to the other dmrs

[uncut kayak]

The point is the m110 does not kill exceptionally fast.

[inner pine]

bro on what planet are you living

[swift frigate]

Ye lol. Every ttk table I've come across has "TTK" and "HS TTK", the implicit convention being that TTK is assumed as bodyshot by default.

[uncut kayak]

I have never seen that be the default. Weird. Beside the point, though.

[inner pine]

always, everywhere and i'm pretty sure in every game

[uncut kayak]

Absolutely not. Where the hell are you seeing people use body ttk?

You know what fuck it it doesn’t really matter lol

[inner pine]

Ofc not but we were discussing ttk anyways until you came up with "hs tkk is the default ttk"

[inner pine]

everywhere, it's literally the baseline to categorize a guns performance

[uncut kayak]

Whatever you say, man

Oh Christ on a bike he’s here now

[lunar root]

Most people don’t even get 20% accuracy, to assume they hit pure headshots is a bit of a stretch :p

(This isn’t a very good argument but I think it should go without saying that people usually don’t get perfect headshots)

[inner pine]

it's the standard buddy, believe me or not but saying hs ttk is the default is plainly false

[uncut kayak]

You are free to use body ttk if you prefer.

[lunar root]

What ratio of headshots do you think you get, out of interest?

Of course that will vary with weapon but in general

[inner pine]

i do because everybody is, it makes discussing about these sorts of things a lot easier

[uncut kayak]

How many times do I need to tell you I’m not arguing with your choice before you quit

[uncut kayak]

I have absolutely no idea. I don’t think anyone can really quantify that effectively because it varies weapon to weapon, range to range, situation to situation, day to day.

[lunar root]

Unsatisfying but understandable.

[inner pine]

well whatever, next time before whipping up a ttk chart maybe tell the other person you're using hs ttk for some odd reason

[uncut kayak]

Usually I refer to it as “optimal ttk” like I did with the Evo but sure

[inner pine]

anyways groza and ump got to good of a ttk for their laser recoil

[lunar root]

For UMP I think that’s fair enough. It’s an SMG and has really poor damage drop off, it deserves to kill quick

[inner pine]

ye well you started with "ttk" so body shot not hs but w/e

[inner pine]

ump could have its damage reduced by 1 so it actually starts losing its 3sk at 20-21m and not 21-idk how long that shit still goes on for

[midnight tinsel]

Who TF uses headshot Ttk

I haven't ran into a chart that defaults Ttk as headshot ttk

It's always body shot and for this game normally against flesh

Never armor

By that metric snipers have a Ttk of 0

Like ???

[granite pivot]

yes nerf snipers pls 🙏

[midnight tinsel]

Ttk usually is based on average, which in shooters is center mass, which in BATTLEBIT is your arms, which in this case are flesh

So by that metric, m110 is a better fal

Which isn't too far from the truth

[lunar root]

…your arms are your centre of mass?

[midnight tinsel]

When you're holding a gun in front of your chest

Yes

Double so when your arms also happen to be the size of your chest

[lunar root]

I think the COM of a human is lower than that but I suppose that doesn’t really matter

[midnight tinsel]

I'm assuming solar plexus

Which in BATTLEBIT your arms usually cover

It's why exo armor is so mid

[swift frigate]

Skill issue. Just need to set a high sensitivity and spin in time with the enemy's RoF so the armor can take the bullets.

[midnight tinsel]

tru

New patch will make support a tf2 spinbot

[haughty ember]

yeah the m110 is definitely a little much, i haven't seen enough of the other ones to say but i've lost a few fights sub 10m vs the m110

[midnight tinsel]

it's a lil crazy

200 ttk but without the other awful stats of old LB to keep it in line

aand not to mention input delay

good for pistols and the other dmrs

[uncut kayak]

The m110 doesn’t do anything better than it used to. It’s always been able to do the same things. The only difference is now you don’t need 300 kills to use it.

[haughty ember]

except all the things it does better because the LB was trash and had a 300 kill unlock tag alongside the input delay fix

[uncut kayak]

Input delay is a big buff for sure, but like I said, it is doing the exact same thing it was doing earlier. It’s just not locked behind a barrier of 300 kills anymore.

[midnight tinsel]

Between input delay and vrecoil buffs, and literally none of the downsides of long barrel, it was a massive buff in your ability to get back to back shots

Which is why it was such a good buff for famas

And why doing it to l86 would've been insane

[uncut kayak]

Is it easier? Sure. Is it fundamentally different, or doing anything it couldn’t do before? No.

[midnight tinsel]

Yes, a person could theoretically fight a vrecoil of 3.0 + old penalties, and perfectly time the firerate to hit an optimal Ttk

That's like lowering scorpion Evo recoil and then arguing it's doing the same thing as before