Gunplay - Feedback

[serene bay]

Please keep it on topic, and civil, we want serious feedback

• No gifs
• No 'skill issue'
• No video's - (Testing video's in the Polygon are fine)

[tight pecan]

many of the gun sounds are pretty pathetic sounding, I'm looking at you desert eagle.
recoil movement is a bit jarring and could be smoothed out a little to reduce motion sickness
I wish there was a way to blind fire at like -500% accuracy but I like dumping ammo XD
I'd like to see a little more play with flashlights and such, seems the side slot is just rangefinder or nothing for 95% of people

[wild imp]

^ as an audio person myself a lot of the guns have little to no high end which lessens the oomph

Especially the sniper rifles

When it comes to recoil, etc. the guns feel great, we just need that good audio to sweeten out the touch

that being said the audio for the killsound is super satisfying

[tight pecan]

if you want to talk about sounds, payday 2 had absolutely the best sounds, before they removed the sound system because it was too much work with all the DLC's
What they did was add a ton of umph and reverb if you were outside, you would hear the shots echoing down streets, if you were inside, it would be more fighting in a box sounding, it was /awesome/
loud guns are more fun lol

[finite wind]

hip fire is super annoying

shooting should have input priority over shoot obstructing movements like sprint

[granite pivot]

I think they plan on redoing the games audio at some point, but it'd be good to have improved gun audio for certain guns in the interim

Mk14 ebr sounds like a nerf gun

[finite wind]

switching to gadget/secondary should stop reload process so that it wont be continued when i switch back to main gun

[granite pivot]

I think this is intentional

[finite wind]

probably is but i personally dislike it

feels counter intuitive that shooting isnt the highest priority

[granite pivot]

Basically one of the milsim aspects of the game

[summer chasm]

You should be able to switch to secondary while ADS as right now u can shoot a full mag and spam 2 and not be able to switch to your secondary as you are still ADS'd

This probably only affects us toggle ads users

[finite wind]

switching to pistol should be quicker

[summer chasm]

it is but if u are ads and u try to switch to pistol it does not switch until you come out of ads

[wild imp]

you should hear some of the sniper rifles they sound like pea shooters

[granite pivot]

It's a common issue unfortunately

[finite wind]

spray should have some degree of inaccuracy to reward bursting. this would also even out the playing field between the meta dominating smgs and other guns

[granite pivot]

Ehhhh cone of fire mechanics kinda suck

[finite wind]

fair enough. its rng but on the other hand it discourages cod tier spray n pray tactics. and id imagine this would serve as an indirect buff for AR's while nerfing smg's

[cobalt warren]

I suggested this topic earlier so now we have a thread for this discussion.

One thing that I want to see being added to the gunplay is an Input Buffer system.

Currently, if you try to spam M1 with a pistol such as the M9 or any of the DMRs as fast as possible, you will notice that some shots will not register because you are inputting M1 faster than the RoF of the weapons.

Adding input buffer simply allows the game to store all your inputs and then buffered later to be executed. An example can be seen in the Souls series, where if you keep spamming attack even after you stopped pressing the attack button, some of your attacks will still be executed as they have been buffered. This system is also seen in some FPS games, but a more recent example is Deep Rock Galactic (input buffer was only added recently in Season 4), which makes firing semi automatic weapons more consistent and reliable.

[summer chasm]

Depends what people actually want from the game tbh do they want old school mw2 style fast placed fun gameplay or boring ass mil sim overly realistic slow paced camping with lmg gameplay

[cobalt warren]

This would be a great QoL addition and make weapons feel better to shoot when spamming M1, most notably on DMRs and pistols.

[frosty idol]

Second one doesn't exist atm

[summer chasm]

It's closer to it after the movement change from attachment bug fixes come through tho still far off

[frosty idol]

You can get the milsim flavour without the effectiveness by using the current Support

[summer chasm]

You're not wrong my bad on the example but rifles are a lot slower now and makes me not want to play them

[frosty idol]

DRG take on QoL with Hipster was a brilliant workaround since it removed the need to specifically 'git gud' with timing shots and removed the clunkiness

[cobalt warren]

The RoF of the hipster was also slightly nerfed to compensate for the QoL change but it felt 200% better to use

[frosty idol]

Would take that QoL over the old gun easily

[cobalt warren]

Hell, even the Subata felt better to use after the change

[frosty idol]

Currently any high RoF weapon with the exception of PP2000 performs too well especially with how snappy they are in CQC and mid-range and melt everything like a heated knife through warm butter.

[cobalt warren]

Also there is another QoL change that I want to see added

Please dont make ADS affect walking speed while reloading

Go into the firing range right now

And reload while sprinting (without ADS)

Now try it with ADS

even though the character is visibly not ADS, if you are technically still in ADS, your running speed will be reduced to ADS walkimg speed

[tight pecan]

so you want to stay in ads, reload while running at regular speed and then immediately be back in ads?

[cobalt warren]

well reloading would automatically kick you out of ADS

to get into ads again you need to click or hold down your aim button

also if youre reloading while sprinting, try switching between ads and non ads mid reload

youll see the problem

[tight pecan]

I'm almost positive ive remained in ADS while reloading before, I'll have to try it

[bitter ginkgo]

sounds are my only complaint the just need to be redone

[frosty idol]

Some guns allow reloading while ADS. Some take you out of it.

[wild canyon]

you can reload while in ads on most guns

and pretty sure you reload slower too

[tight pecan]

Yeah thats what ive noticed I didnt know what this dude was on about

[fading bison]

This buffer system is basically standard in every fps game. This game not having it is just incredibly strange to me. I do hope the lack of a buffer system is merely a developer oversight and not part of their vision for the game.

[solar wave]

Shooting is S tier. I wouldn’t change much at all. I wish the SMGs had more recoil but faster ADS walking speed. It would balance them and also make them a blast to play in CQC

[cobalt warren]

there is a weird interaction with the movement speed while ur doing ads while reloading

ill try and record it if i can when i get back

[faint furnace]

Add input buffering for certain actions like reload and weapon swapping so you don't have that awkward pause waiting for your guy to get his block hands perfectly situated on the weapon before they reload.

[cobalt warren]

After some testing, you can see that being in ADS will reduce your running speed, even though your character isn't even physically aiming down the gun's sights. My previous assumption is that this was the case for all weapons, but it seems to be a problem for handguns only (every other weapon type has a dedicated animation/stance for reloading while staying in ADS). Even so, this is a pretty weird interaction and should be fixed.

[cobalt zealot]

I think the rest I of the SMGs should have similar fall off to what the vector received. It’s almost with any smg you get lazered from a decent distance with very little recoil. I do think they rest should be balanced out to meet the vector. Just doesn’t feel right that a smg can out preform many rifles at range.

[trail plover]

Satisfying since the flinch nerf, although some underperforming weapons need alot of love.

Weapon sound should be improved, at least having each gun feel unique or sounding like its a hard hitting weapon

[blazing burrow]

After aim punch changes, gunplay is excellent. Could use a small adjustment on the large damage weapons, especially the ak15, scar, and fal aim punch too much.

Otherwise, the only other complaint is a bug - on any elevation change, your screen will shake / jump, as if you fell from a large height. However this also happens on uneven ground, there should be a minimum distance of falling required for this animation /shake to occur, slightly less than the height your character jumps should keep it in the game(to prevent abuse) while fixing it occurring while you are walking up terrain or standing on certain objects

Related, but disabling head bobbing would be extremely welcome, this affects gunplay, but more importantly, leads to some players feeling motion sickness(myself included).

[hallow totem]

Oki must choose aggressive balance way , not doing +0.1 -0.1 bullshit to couple of guns, currently 85% of guns in this game is on tier from bruh to complete joke, ton of fun and content cockblocked by that, otherwise game will continue losing players insanely fast, may be yall dont care about playercount for now, but when you will care there is gonna be too late ||(game already lost almost 2/3 out of daily peak playercount number in just a month)||

Nerfs must be completely forgotten, only buffing guns way, like devs did to classes, instead of listening bozos and nerfing medic they buffed other, simple and better

Treat this as "do or die" take, or obviously you can test your luck and patience of audience oki, lets watch together how much they got if you want

[wild imp]

It's normal for a game to drop in players after release like that. Buffing classes can lead to powercreep and shouldn't be exclusively what is done, that's bad game design.

[hallow totem]

1. its ok to powercreep when game is such undercreep like ours, where guns have insane recoils, unaccurate, and drop dmg past 5 meters, its called switching to successful design not bad design, dont talk about game design if you understand less
2. yea its normal, for games that died in a 1 year LMAO, for else its "rare" at best, and im aint seeing it stopping.

3. yet im aint asked for powercreep, you can try balancing every gun to the point of m4 or vector, good luck doing that with current design where every gun is almost same

[silver latch]

True. Im not a big fan of cods especially recent entries but they're doing balance almost right.
You can outplay everyone with any gun you have in game. And it doesnt matter if they have recent meta weapons or smth old.
While in BBR major part of weapons "have it's niche" if you know what i mean

[stray canyon]

this seemed like the most relevant topic. add inertia to player movement to prevent flailing around or nerf top speeds of movement

[hallow totem]

guns is not only about outplaying, playing with trash gun can hmmmmm can simply be unfun? and when its ton of them it can back away players from the game? 99% of ppl somehow forgetting that basic truth

ofc im can outplay whole server with pistol but why would im want to

and this "want" is much more important than "can"

[silver latch]

That's basically what i said. If you can outplay anyone with anything without much struggling you'll have a great time.

[hallow totem]

somehow im didnt!

unimaginable

and other 60k peeps probably too

[silver latch]

Rn we have m4, better m4, worse m4, op smgs and... assault dmrs

[hallow totem]

except they cant outplay, but thats again why it doesnt matter shit

[wild imp]

This game does not suffer from undercreep. An actual example of undercreep is something like Overwatch. Compared to other games in its genre battlebit is still the most popular game. I play many indie games, and they would all dream of having this many people playing the game. Indie games can in fact, thrive with even 1k players. This game still has a larger playerbase than squad, hell let loose, all the battlefield games, etc. I know you probably did not intend to ask for powercreep but if you buff every gun all the time that is the natural result that you will get.

When you balance a game naturally you will have to impliment both buffs and nerfs depending on the situation

[hallow totem]

"other games in its genre"

[wild imp]

Sometimes you also need to perform reworks that impliment both.

[hallow totem]

[wild imp]

This is a feedback forum, not a place where you are supposed to troll

[hallow totem]

im still doesnt know from which ass you took the powercreep but ok bro

keep up the pace

👍

[wild imp]

Eh fair enough it's obvious you are just here to be rude and demeaning to other people, time for the block. Not going to interact with someone like that, have a good day.

[hallow totem]

trolling - is thinking that this game doesnt need big balance changes, and im aint seeing suggestions in that way from you, only preventions

[cobalt warren]

What in the hell is this doompost

Playercounts will naturally decrease overtime, it cannot be avoided

The game only released in EA aswell

[wild imp]

idk probably a battlefield 2042 fanboy

people do this over every single game I've ever played it's dumb

ah yes a game does not have 100k players it is dying or a dead game

[hallow totem]

battlebit community takes is still on its lvl

[tight pecan]

world of tanks has over a million monthly active users
under 3k players in steamcharts

dead game

[hallow totem]

im so proud

random guy casually came in and gived example about game with its own launcher

what a gamer

[tight pecan]

bad data is bad data

[hallow totem]

there is no bad data only bad data gathering guy

[cobalt warren]

Stay in topic

[blazing burrow]

One of the things that cod players never stop complaining about is balance; isn't that game notorious for overbuffing new weapons to extremes to sell skins and then nerfing them after a month of horrible, boring gameplay where everyone is using the same OP weapon and other weapons are effectively trash?

[tight pecan]

also more than half the weapons are locked behind supply drops / loot boxes

[silver latch]

P2w controversy is thriving in cod community but it's not that big of a deal (as always in such games). But I've been playing recent cod from launch to the end of spring and they actually did a great job with balancing. For a few exceptions but nothing criminal.
As i initially stated - you can be fine with any weapon you have in game, everything else is "git gud"

[silver latch]

lol what?

[tight pecan]

iirc, like half of weapons are supply drop locked which you have to unlock in dmz
dmz is heavily pay to win last I tried it

[silver latch]

Oh, i know shit 'bout dmz, so i guess you're not wrong)

I thought you've been talking about old cods like bo3

[tight pecan]

iirc the way it works now is they have a matchmaking system that figures out your preferred weapons then purposely matches you against better players with the same guns that have special skins so you're tempted to associate better player with that skin = better

[silver latch]

Yeah, sbmm and shady shadow ban systems are wild there rn. Stopped playing because im tired of tryharding when the game thinks it's ok to tamper with my ping and hit reg

[wild imp]

Yes they do that, and it's pretty blatant as well how bad it gets

[exotic timber]

The 'gunplay' for LMGs is bad. The 'gunplay' for smgs is good. I do a lot better zipping around with an MP5 as a medic or engineer, because it's much easier and faster to aim, control recoil, etc. With an lmg, I have a much more difficult time doing everything. The lmg experience is a lot less fun. We need suppression mechanics and a bipod that works, so that it can be fun to use the weapons as they are meant to be used

[blazing burrow]

suppression will absolutely NOT improve gunplay, and will actively make it worse. Suppression is never a good gunplay mechanic.

[tight pecan]

people generally dont like having to go another way or wait for your drum to run dry

[blazing burrow]

one thing that could absolutely improve the game is removing the "jump" that happens when you swap guns

[exotic timber]

I don't like getting shot and killed, but it's still a necessary and important mechanic of the game that is part of the overall 'fun' for everyone involved.

[tight pecan]

you should get them to remove that

[blazing burrow]

Another thing that affects gunplay - lacking action queueing. This causes inputs to be ignored in some cases(clicking slightly faster than a semi auto guns max fire rate will cause missed input).

There's also a few actions which are really awkward if you use toggle ADS - for example, using the grappling gun doesn't auto un-ads after you fire it, so your movespeed is very slow. Swapping guns will automatically go back into ADS, while you are moving at ADS speed the entire time, even while not ADS. For actions which force leaving ADS, you should have to click again to ADS, instead of being in a weird state where you are moving at ADS speed, but not ADSed while another animation plays. Another example is bolt actions, you can be un-ads, but stuck in ADS toggle.

[cobalt warren]

Thats the point that myself and some people have brought up

Lack of input buffering

[blazing burrow]

yep that's another term for the same thing.

It was one of the first threads I made in the discord, long before the game went live lol

[nocturne delta]

You should be able to start a reload in the middle of a magazine check.
-Press H. Oh my gun has only 10 shots left.
-Press R, character puts mag away instead of back in gun. Or drops it if holding R.

Also in terms of how guns work I think its weird how this game feels tactical and has non-arcady magazines, but you dont keep track of if a bullet is chambered. The way a game like R6S lets you have 1 shot at the ready if you reload from a non empty magazine.

[exotic timber]

or cancel a reload

[granite pivot]

Lack of reload canceling is likely intentional given how the game borrows milsim mechanics

[dense umbra]

Reduce the amount of tracers in the mag for everything except snipers to a tracer every five rounds. Firing a constant beam of light on night maps makes any kind of flash hider or suppressor useless. (preferably have the last 5 rounds all be tracers to have not only an audio but also a visual que the you're about to run dry)

[turbid plank]

tracers should be removed, or just 1 per every 5 shots or something. Squad has tracerless for rifles, tracers per every 10 shots for MGs and the last few shots were basically full tracer. this allows people to flank more efficiently and stealth-ily

[sly marsh]

The problem is 5 rounds is enough to kill with one gun and without the tracer its almost impossible to locate snipers on night maps who use med scope

[tight pecan]

no he's right, we need more instantly dying from unknown shooters not less

[wise musk]

Does Sound Spread even do anything?
Do guns have different sound ranges or are they all identical like their stats would suggest?
I'm not sure I believe that a suppressor makes all guns equally quiet, whether it's the m200 or the mp 443.

[wild canyon]

they do have sound ranges

[wise musk]

Correct.
According to their stats, every single gun has a sound spread of 600.

[faint furnace]

In the attachment thread I said that suppressors should remove tracers except the 5th round to promote stealth

[blazing burrow]

that would be awful, there are simply to many players on the field at one time. Maybe at night mode, every other or every third bullet(excepting DMRS/Snipers) would be ok. But not in regular day light gameplay. You need the tracers to get adequate info with how hectic the game is

[faint furnace]

I feel like the entire reason a player would use a suppressor is to stay as hidden as possible. There's no reason to pick that attachment because everyone knows where you are the second you shoot.

[blazing burrow]

The suppressor actually helps a ton with this due to the reduced sound. You can easily kill players in the backline with no one knowing, but it does require being smarter about target choices and not letting them shoot back. It's also really potent on some of the snipers, you can be a few feet away from them and barely hear it. As long as you hit your headshots, you can stay hidden very well

[inner pine]

idk if this would belong in here but some better bullet impact sounds would be greatly appreciated, rn it sounds kinda like a fart went of accompanied by a little pouf of smoke, it should sound more threatening imo, akin to tarkov where the bullet impact sound really makes you second guess your decisions, ofc it's generally more tense but rn the sound design in generall just feels meh, better sound design could greatly benefit immersion and gunplay imo

[faint furnace]

I hear suppressed shooters and snipers from a distance all the time. I think it's player dependent since some people like to listen to music and won't hear footsteps or guns in general.

[dense umbra]

If the sound spread stat is in m then 210m is a huge distance. Personally i can hear suppressed guns from ages away and just like with rally points it gets me to instantly snap to the direction to see where is came from.

[faint furnace]

Exactly! It's so distinct and clear!

[inner pine]

but the reduced traces would be a live saver, i can't see shit when i shoot enemys and i just have a blooming wall of yellow in front of me, the is especially bad at night

[inner pine]

maybe it's also just because the shots come from your sight/camera when ads which spawns the tracers right in your eyes :/

but even still the tracers at night bloom like a fucking christmas tree

seriously how tf am i gonna see my target?

[lunar root]

The only complaint I have about the gun play is that I would much rather that shooting took priority over sprinting rather than the other way around.

This could be described as a skill issue, but I often loose hip fire engagements purely because I accidentally sprint while trying to fire and it overwrites me trying to shoot

[fading bison]

Thoughts on the implementation of horizontal recoil? I feel like it adds way too much randomness to shooting at medium range.

Its basically RNG inaccuracy

[granite pivot]

it's fine imo

you shouldn't be able to beam people out at 100m with automatics anyway

and there are guns that have very good hor recoil already that you can use in full auto out to reasonable distances

[fading bison]

I can see that. It does kind of create a dynamic of something like the FAL being better at close and long range but the M4 is better at medium range since it can full auto reliably while the fal its complete rng even if you control recoil

[granite pivot]

well the FAL is one of those guns that has such insane TTK

that the effective range at full auto has to be limited

the better the player is, the more they can extend the full auto range

so it's an interesting gun

i don't think it's worse at M4 at most ranges, simply because it hits so hard

[lunar root]

Just need a gun that doesn’t have especially high recoil and that is fully possible

[ancient meteor]

im of the opposite opinion. most of the guns feel like theyre lacking a lot of low end punch. guns are really thumpy irl, and especially with earmuffs as you would wear in the military you notice the punch from the bass way more than the high-end. the r700 and Rsh are great examples

[wild imp]

I recommend you try to send the audio through a frequency wave form visualizer or an EQ

There is a lack of high ends in a lot of the guns

The reason why it does not have punch is in fact because of the lack of high ends, not low ends

When you remove high ends it causes things to sound muffled

[wise musk]

too much and it sounds tinny
Or makes your ears bleed

[ancient meteor]

i mean, thats generally how it goes. you wont find a gun (probably) that has up and down kick when you shoot, but the side to side kick is generally random as far as a human can tell

i wasnt saying to remove high end. just that most guns lack low end

[wild imp]

oh of course but well, the problem is a lot of them don't have really any high ends at all

[wild imp]

I know. What I was saying is it's not that they lack low end, they have low end. Actually they only have low end, that's the problem

[wise musk]

even so, right now, I'd rather have some bassier guns instead of higher pitched ones

[cobalt warren]

no

low end for the guns are fine for now

theyre lacking body and tail

some sounds decay too fast, some just dont have enough tail (or the reverb end)

it makes the gun sound small

obv these are unity asset audio files so theyre not the best quality

iirc theyre hiring a team of professionals to rerecord the sounds in game

[wild imp]

yes a large portion is bad origional file

[wild imp]

Here's an example of what I'm talking about

the regular is the default sound I found randomly on YT

remove high ends removes all the highs which is what we see in some of the battlebit guns, although I made it much more extreme

And then my ideal I added a slight EQ adjustments + compression, and I think compression is really what you wanted

I'm no sfx artist though, I generally work with music

[cobalt warren]

ive sound designed and composed for a couple of uni projects in the past

compression defo helps with making the gun sound punchy/snappy

[wild imp]

It's cause of the large dynamic differences. The compression works well cause you basically do the same thing you do with drums

Now, this sound still would not be very usable in game

mostly because it has its own reverb

[cobalt warren]

we still havent taken into account the sound direction

[wise musk]

Idk why you're removing highs, don't know what you're trying to show with that.
And between the regular and your ideal, I'll take the regular

[cobalt warren]

do the devs want the game sound more arcadey, realistic, etc.

ill give more of my opinion when i get back to my pc

[wild imp]

removing the highs is supposed to be representative of the problem that exists in some of battlebit's guns

[wise musk]

Except they've not done that

[wild imp]

https://youtu.be/xyqFbAMi8SM?t=1256
Yes they have

SSG69 is good example, time stamped in video

[wise musk]

Yeah no
They didn't remove highs, that sound just doesn't have a lot.
Asking for more is fine, saying they made it worse is a bit different though.

[wild imp]

I don't have the means to recreate specifically record a gun sound effect that does not have highs. The best I could do was recreate it by showing it with an EQ

[cobalt warren]

Let me show you guys a video

[wild imp]

And I'm fairly fairly certain that they put a low pass on the SSG

[cobalt warren]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmMlaasm8wk

[wise musk]

I doubt they (the devs) actually did that
Much more likely the sound was already like that.

[wild imp]

when I refer to they I'm referring to the sfx artist.

[cobalt warren]

they dont have any

[wild canyon]

the gun sounds are fine idk about you guys they did the sounds with limited tools they have

[wild imp]

The sfx artist that made the sound

[wild canyon]

theyll revamping the sounds soon

[wild imp]

even if it wasn't the devs someone did

[wild canyon]

they said theyre planning to hire a sound expert whatever they are called

to make the gun sounds and stuff

[wise musk]

So really any of our sound complaints may as well wait til we hear something about that or until after they're done

And yeah, I think the gun sounds are largely fine

[wild imp]

the current ones sound like pea shooters

[wild canyon]

doesnt matter if they sound pea shooters

[wise musk]

what does a "pea shooter" even sound like?

[cobalt warren]

its being reworked so any of our complaints here are moot

[wild imp]

it's an expression

wait wrong reply

[wise musk]

Nah, you got it

he asked

[wild imp]

yes I was just providing specific feedback as to what I think the largest downside was to the current sfx

[wild canyon]

current gun sfx are fine

they just need to fix other sounds

cuz ALOT OF PEOPLE

dont hear footsteps

[cobalt warren]

i do hear them actually

theyre pretty audible compared to other games

[wise musk]

I hear footsteps, kind of hard to tell where from
but I hear them
and the voices in my walls, those are pretty clear though

[cobalt warren]

didnt they made sounds more directional recently

[wise musk]

In regards to footsteps, I haven't noticed
In regards to gunshots, I've noticed

[wild canyon]

i can hear them too

but from what i can see from running towards people inside building most of the time they dont

[wild imp]

I haven't payed attention to the footsteps in the game but that's also cause I almost exlusively play recon

[wild canyon]

if i remember correctly most of the gun sounds are made with home made tools or something

like cant rememeber if it was larry or oki that asked chat what tool he used for making <X> gun lmao

[wise musk]

All classes should have the same base move speed.
Any increases or decreases in move speed should be reflected in their equipment and not as hidden stats.

[lunar root]

bro is spamming 💀

[granite pivot]

That's how it is currently...

[wise musk]

It actually is not
Engi and medic move about 10% faster than assault/recon/leader
and support moves about 10% slower

[granite pivot]

First time hearing of this. Source?

[wise musk]

I tested it.
#1138399550210576466 message
I have more runs that I tested with the other classes but I have yet to post them anywhere.

[midnight tinsel]

did you include backpacks in your tests

[wise musk]

Yes, they're not all listed but I was taking them into account

atm you're gonna kind of just have to "trust me bro" but I will make a spread sheet about it at some point

[midnight tinsel]

also why not compare AK 15/glock w/ mg36/glock

[wise musk]

I will add it to the list

[midnight tinsel]

I'll ask oki if there is some hidden thing but ngl I've got a hard time believing he coded seperate base speeds

[wise musk]

But just to let you know, the gun's run speed stat doesn't matter that much.
And it just uses the one in your hands

[granite pivot]

I've heard from other people testing that it's the opposite

So who's right?

[wise musk]

That was is the opposite?

[granite pivot]

As in you run at the same speed with primary or secondary out

[wise musk]

You don't

[granite pivot]

If you're getting different speeds that doesn't sound right

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xAfEdlenb2Q&pp=ygUXRGVjaW1hbCBiYXR0bGViaXQgbXl0aHM%3D

Decimal actually posted video evidence

So I'm inclined to believe him

But if you have video evidence, you should post it

[wise musk]

That is old information then.
I do not have video evidence, I have the data from my tests.

[granite pivot]

This was posted three weeks ago, so still pretty recent

[wise musk]

There was literally an update for this like a week ago, I highly encourage you to look at the recent updates

[granite pivot]

No shit sherlock

It was focused on attachments

But if you think there are fundamental issues with movement speed coming out of the patch

Post video evidence

Otherwise it's your word against decimals

Shouldn't take more than five minutes to record a clip

[wise musk]

That's an outdated video.
The information in that video is NOT ACCURATE ANYMORE

[granite pivot]

How do we know that?

[dapper robin]

He literally tested it

[granite pivot]

We can only know for sure if you post a clip

[wise musk]

Go into the training room
Equip a heavy gun and a run fast pistol
Run with heavy gun
then run with fast pistol
TELL ME THEY RUN THEY SAME
||They do not||

[granite pivot]

I'm open minded about this, but I just need to see evidence

[granite pivot]

I can't rn

And you're making the claim, so that's why I'm asking you

[cobalt warren]

Who can test it in game rn

[wise musk]

And you expect me to make a video right now?

[wise musk]

I already did.
#1138399550210576466 message

[granite pivot]

I didn't say now lol, when you have time

When you post it be sure to show your armor, helmet, primary and secondary too

[wise musk]

Yeah nah, I'm not gonna make a dozen videos for this when I can make a spread sheet with the data on it.
You can do it yourself and double check the results

[granite pivot]

You can literally just make a single clip

Showing support with the same theoretical run speed as medic

Without a clip, it's hard to verify your test results

Even if you post them

[dapper robin]

You can do it yourself

to verify

[granite pivot]

I'm asking because a) idc and b) I can't even if I wanted to

[wise musk]

It literally isn't.
I explained what I did in the beginning of this post. You can do it yourself.
#1138399550210576466 message

[dapper robin]

So if you don't care then why are you arguing it?

[granite pivot]

Your post is a mess, I don't even know how you timed it. For all I know, you could be making up numbers. That's why I'm saying you should simply post a clip and everyone will know for sure.

[granite pivot]

Take a guess

[wise musk]

You're a troll

[dapper robin]

Because you're lazy and don't want to prof that yourself?

[granite pivot]

My man, I'm literally asking for the most basic and verifiable form of evidence and you're calling me a troll over that?

Who's the troll here if you can't post the most basic evidence besides "trust me bro"

In the time you spent arguing with me, you could've recorded and posted the clip already

[dapper robin]

I know this mf, he is the most nitpicky mf when it comes to mechanics in ANY game and will go out of his way to test shit all the time

[fossil stump]

I can verify it, I read it, and yeah, Support is just inherently slow. I'm playing Support right now

[granite pivot]

Wait you know me?

[dapper robin]

No, garble.

[granite pivot]

OK, well I don't

[fossil stump]

Good

Keep it that way

[dapper robin]

I don't trust his word on a lot, but I trust him on these especially in practice and from experience

[granite pivot]

Like I've said repeatedly, I'm totally open minded about this

But I can't verify the methodology unless he spends five min posting a clip

[vapid fox]

I would like to see the accuracy stat removed and have all guns be 100% accurate where the sights are pointed. It feels unnecessarily punishing for support weapons to have such low accuracy and be so weak over range when SMG's can beat a support player due to the support's weapons being so inaccurate. SMGs are more accurate and have less recoil, LMGs need something in order to be competitive.

[granite pivot]

Otherwise it's his word against decimal, who actually posted a clip

[dapper robin]

If you were open minded you'd shut up and test it yourself if you get time, and if he's wrong then cool. If he's not then accept that.

Youtubers get shit wrong all the time

[fossil stump]

He's explained his methodology, including margin of errors possible

[dapper robin]

youtubers literally thought the SG550 was ass and the worst AR in the game

[granite pivot]

I already said I can't test right now lmao.

Otherwise sure

[dapper robin]

then wait until later to bounce back in LMAO

They also thought the FAL was gonna run the meta

[granite pivot]

I'm not the one making the claim, the onus is on him to back up his words

[fossil stump]

But he did

And there's a guy backing him up too

[wise musk]

I did
Why would I lie about this?

[granite pivot]

Without a video, which is all I'm asking for

[granite pivot]

I'm not saying you lied

I just need to be able to double check your approach

[dapper robin]

And you have 2 mfs here who always manifest his downfall and hope hes wrong telling you he's right

[granite pivot]

Holy shit you mfers are taking it so personally

Over something so simple

[fossil stump]

You're asking for video evidence for something you can do yourself any time of the week

[granite pivot]

Again, why would I. I'm not the one making the claim.

[wise musk]

He seemed to figure it out.
I don't know why it's so hard for you.

[fossil stump]

If you're gonna shoot it down because of lack of video evidence, then explain why people get banned or reported without video evidence

Same logic, imo

[granite pivot]

OK no video clip it is.

I'm not going to waste anymore time on this

Was literally trying to make it easier for this guy to present his claim in a verifiable and accessible fashion

But that's cool 👍

[midnight tinsel]

this was changed with the attachment update

It got reduced with the 50% fix

Since it was out for like 4 days nobody really has footage

[granite pivot]

The patch notes said the impact of attachments on movement speed was reduced

Is oki counting pistols and armor as attachments or something 🤔

[granite pivot]

Yes exactly, that's why I was asking for footage since somebody went out of their fucking way to post a wall of text and spam five feedback channels

[midnight tinsel]

So what the update did was uncouple your total runspeed from your weapons

Instead of your whole gearset influencing your movementspeed, it's now currently equipped

[granite pivot]

But couldn't be arsed to post footage

[midnight tinsel]

So you run faster than before with a pistol because it has a 1.10 movespeed

and slower with an ak15 bc of the runspeed

[granite pivot]

Interesting

[midnight tinsel]

yea

[granite pivot]

Do you know how armor factors into this?

[midnight tinsel]

TBH I can't tell if you're faster than before with pistols or just same speed as original and everything else is slower

[granite pivot]

Is it just a multiplier to your currently drawn weapon+

[midnight tinsel]

people say it's the latter

[midnight tinsel]

believe so but it is some funky math oki won't give

[fossil stump]

Same speed as original, albeit slightly slower for some classes

[granite pivot]

Damn

Might be something for ui feedback

[fossil stump]

Someone did do the math 👀 In the chat. Earlier

[granite pivot]

Just a single stat representing your current movement speed

[midnight tinsel]

you literally said in your post that the math doesn't make sense

so

[fossil stump]

Huh?

[wise musk]

What?

[fossil stump]

HUH?

[granite pivot]

Welp I'll just wait for the dust to settle on this

[fossil stump]

Probably a good idea, bud

[midnight tinsel]

The only class you can compare to support is Engi

Because that is the only class with big backpack

and normal armor

and AK15

[fossil stump]

Wait, why AK15?

[midnight tinsel]

that or scar H since they're the AR with 0.95 runspeed

[fossil stump]

Support doesn't get AK15 though

[midnight tinsel]

Supports mg36 has 0.95 runspeed

they're identical in theory

[wise musk]

Literally false
The name of equipment doesn't matter
They all have their own stats for each class.
The only one that can line up 1:1 with support for stats is Recon.
Everyone else can get close with armor and backpack (.95+.95 vs .925+.975)

[midnight tinsel]

Normal backpack on support is bugged meaning big or heavy backpack are the only comparable ones, while the normal armor support has the same modifiers

[wise musk]

And because the math is some level of multiplicative, the difference in the run speeds, does make a difference, albeit very slight

[wise musk]

I wasn't using normal backpack

[midnight tinsel]

so you were using normal armor big backpack engineer and still found it faster than support with same gear

[wise musk]

I believe the answer to your question is "yes" but I'm not sure if I've tested that specific scenario yet.
I would have to look at what I all tested and I don't have that in front of me at this second.

[midnight tinsel]

heavy backpack/heavy armor would also be a compareable situation

[wise musk]

I know FOR SURE that recon with IDENTICAL STATS IS FASTER than support.

[midnight tinsel]

but you can't match that bc recon doesn't have a weapon with 0.95 runspeed

and attachments we saw are 50% less effective than base weapon stat

[fossil stump]

So either A. there's errors in how the game does its movement speed calculation that's unacocunted for, B. we're not getting the full stats, or C. there's just an inherent passive that makes certain classes slower or faster than others, regardless of gear (which overlaps a lil' with B)

[wise musk]

It doesn't matter that much. With tests the actual run speed difference on a class with a different gun with wildly different run speed stats in only a couple seconds at most over the 1000m run.

[midnight tinsel]

do the math authentically dawg you've got the tools IDK why you're bringing recon into this

the class with heavier weapons than support

[wise musk]

You're literally telling me to base it on run speed stats of guns
And I did

[midnight tinsel]

You literally have a kit on a supposedly 33% faster class to compare directly 1-1

[wise musk]

Huh?

[fossil stump]

Please expand on that one, cause even I got confused

[midnight tinsel]

naked engineer, but assault should still be able to match without a 14.5% speed increase if both classes run AK15/mg36 untouched, normal armor, normal helmet and heavy backpack

or engineer with big backpack and double normal

[wise musk]

I have not tested those specific combinations so I can not say FOR SURE
However, I suspect that engineer is still faster.
I WILL TEST THIS SCENARIO LATER

[spiral forge]

@wise musk has earned the Tier I Member role!

[midnight tinsel]

this should've been the first test you did

but w/e

[wise musk]

I literally just stumbled upon this.
I never intended to be testing this shit in the first place.
I found that this is the case
And have to do more testing.

[fossil stump]

Man's stumbled upon this before he deliberately started testing, kinda hard to have him go back in a time machine and make it deliberate

[midnight tinsel]

I've been testing with videos that suggest different but across a shorter time span

[fossil stump]

Uh huh. But not in the game, right?

[midnight tinsel]

yea in the game I'm looking through my clips right now

I forgot to label my gear

I'll record it rn

oh awesome it broke my clip in 2 :/

[wise musk]

Now, you're testing this correctly, but I would say that depending on the kits you and the distance you're running
The difference in speed might not be as apparent

If you run to the 1000m target dummy that should be plenty long enough for you to see the differences in speed. Though it will take a lot longer to test different set ups.

[midnight tinsel]

11.85 vs 11.84

0.0009% difference

[dapper robin]

Do the 1000m run with the same setup

[midnight tinsel]

modifying it a bit so it'll stay more consistent and easy to measure

ok so first of all

[blazing burrow]

I'm not 100% sure, but it does feel like it. ARs/SMGs feel like they have different movespeeds, and recon feels slower even when wearing gear that shouldn't be slower.

Could be incorrect perception, I don't have hard data.

[midnight tinsel]

but I'm also getting a video just for u 3 @wise musk @dapper robin @fossil stump

[dapper robin]

Based

[wise musk]

I believe you, but if that is the case, then this is a weirdly specific bug that me and at least one other person also had

[dapper robin]

Yeah this isn't the first "account specific" bug

[blazing burrow]

He's right; the patch literally fixed long-standing bugs with movespeed, so movespeed vids from prior to the patch are out of date

[midnight tinsel]

me personally I think you doing it at 1000meters fucked w/ your data by basically not being able to go in a straight line accurately and/or your gear was out of sync

but hey maybe it really is account specific

[wise musk]

I lined up before I ran with a medium sight and took my hand off the mouse and only held W
I ran in a straight line

[midnight tinsel]

there's your data

[wise musk]

Can confirm this is accurate
So then where the heck are the numbers getting messed up!?

[wise musk]

OKAY
@granite pivot @cobalt warren @dapper robin @fossil stump @midnight tinsel
So
I was wrong AND my data was messed up
But I know why now
So initially I thought that the classes had more or less inherent move speed. I was wrong
The classes have the same base move speed.

But I know how the movespeed actually works now.
Armor/backpack/helmets has a run speed stat, I couldn't get perfect matches with everyone but I was able to get close enough to guesstimate what the results should be and the results were within expected values.
I redid all my 1000m runs in the shooting range.

What I found was actually this:
Your armor has the biggest impact on your run speed.
Then BOTH of your guns. Your primary AND your secondary.

Then I think this is the funky part.
Your gun in hand with its attachments matters
But only the base run speed of your holstered gun.
The attachments on your holstered gun have no seeming impact on your run speed

So you could have a drum mag mg36 holstered and you would run the same speed as if you had the normal mag mg36 holstered instead.

Also I made an ass of myself making an issue about the classes having different move speeds when I was just wrong

and I really don't know where I messed up in my initial testing but after retesting everything I can pretty safely say I was in fact wrong

[midnight tinsel]

Oh that's weiiiiird

But that also lines up with what I've been feeling

Which means Glock extended mag is meta again

The both guns thing is how it used to be so ig this stacks on top and deagle is still a worse pick

[wise musk]

Yeah.
I almost think it's dumber than the classes actually just having different move speeds.
But go ahead and run drum mags or extended mags for your holstered weapon for running.

[cobalt warren]

now here's what i want to know

do gadgets affect run speed

@wise musk

[wise musk]

I do not believe so, but is there a specific gadget you would like me to test?

[cobalt warren]

honestly, just any of em

[spiral forge]

@cobalt warren has earned the Tier I Member role!

[cobalt warren]

oh nice

im a no life here

anyway

[wise musk]

congrats

[cobalt warren]

either that or bandages

[wise musk]

BUt so what do you mean exactly, like just having it equipped or in your hands?

[cobalt warren]

ye

i wanna know the run speed

[wise musk]

okay which

[cobalt warren]

lets start with bandages first ig

since all classes have em

[wise musk]

I assume you mean, how does it affect run speed while in your hands

[cobalt warren]

yep

[wise musk]

Okay, I will test

[wise musk]

I think bandages have a run speed of 1.0

[cobalt warren]

ah

interesting

so depending on how heavy ur primary is, you can either run with the secondary or bandages i assume

hmm

after reading the wiki a bit

it seems like most pistols have 1.1 run speed

so its probably just better to run out with secondaries

[mint nova]

why are vehicles banned in some game modes? helicopters are the best part of the game

[wild canyon]

game modes or maps?

[mint nova]

Im not sure if vehicle spawning is tied to map or game mode, but regardless I think helicopters should never be turned off in a match

[wild canyon]

both]

some maps have tanks

some have dont

there are modes that only transport vehicles are allowed

there are modes thats literally no vehicles

[mint nova]

yeah, why would you want that?

[lunar root]

Because some people don’t like the existence of vehicles

I would say the existence of vehicles, especially for newer players, is more likely to disadvantage them than advantage them

[wild canyon]

cuz not everyone has the same cup of tea

[wise musk]

Yes unless you have a heavy caliber or an extended mag.

[granite pivot]

Thanks for looking into this further, interesting findings

Now we just need knives to maximize run speed

[fading bison]

I also found that the move speed stat of your upholstered gun isnt accurate any more. I found that the 1.1 move speed mp7 was faster than the 1.15 move speed of a short mag fal. Might have to do with that move speed update or maybe each weapon category has a different base speed?

But I also found the mp7 was faster than a short mag mp5 as well. The mp7 just had the higher base speed with no attachments

Actually I might have to double check since your holstered weapon changes move speed but not its attachments

[blazing burrow]

ya I was saying that earlier, pretty sure weapon categories are different base move speeds, but I don't have evidence to back it up.

That might be why it feels like it was class based, since I was thinking medic/supp/recon, but ofc they all have diff weap archetypes

[fading bison]

Its just weird that the short mag mp5 with 1.13 move speed was slower than the 1.10 move speed mp7. I dont think its weapon based

[ancient meteor]

you mean plushies

[lunar root]

Only base weapon movement speeds count when the gun is not in your hand

[wise musk]

They do not have different base movement speeds by weapon class.
Just their base run speed stat.

[inner pine]

i've been playing a few rounds with the evo and it appears hits often just don't register, you can dump 1/3 of your mag into someone point blank and it doesn't count, 1-3 hits not like the 7 or more you actually hit

[silver latch]

Something awful happened to netcode. Like problems with pistol draw time which feels like a server related issue more than client side

[inner pine]

ouch, so it's not just me and "skill issue"?

[silver latch]

Yeah, i've stopped playing with deagle because of it

It takes 5 sec to draw it

While i can even ads with empty hands

[inner pine]

idk deagle just feels very random and unreliable, hit or miss nothing in between

i use the glock but that has a high firerate aswell so that thing might also be fucked

[silver latch]

It feels like very very last resort. Portable hand cannon to end someone. But now it's useless because of said problems

[inner pine]

i just mag dump the glock in such instances

but high firerate guns feel pretty yucky with them not hitting shit even though they should

[silver latch]

Firerate always was a common problem for online shooters, so we might just have to cope

[inner pine]

[dark field]

it would be nice to get average and standard deviation for kill distance

right now, we can check the farthest kill distance for each gun

that information isnt really useful

but with average and standard deviation, you'd be able to say "70% of my kills with this gun happen between 30 meters to 70 meters"

this is useful because as an extreme example, if most of your guns tell you "90% of your kills happen below 20 meters" then close combat weapons such as the vector (even post nerf) are a good pick

but if its like "90% of your kills happen between 50 meters to 100 meters" then perhaps you should avoid using the vector

[lunar root]

assuming it's symmetrical, of course

but I'll bet it isn't

[dark field]

its still more information than than just longest distance

longest distance kill isn't too useful

[lunar root]

it would be nicer if it just stored the ranges of all your kills / deaths and could give you an accurate value from that

[dark field]

honestly ya, especially if you can export to a csv file

and have it also show map / gun / game mode / etc

[lunar root]

I estimate that for just range values it would take about a $10 hard drive to store every player's info

so it should be totally doable

[dark field]

you probably dont even need that, just store past 1000 kills only while giving players the option to export the data

like a table that shows 1000 rows, each row corresponding to a kill:
gun | range | map | gamemode

[turbid plank]

If the Devs have a way of tracking detailed stats, we could correlate a players K/D ratio to the average number of kills per magazine for each gun. Then rank each gun accordingly. With this Dataset you can ask questions like...

In the hands of 1.0 K/D player, do we think this gun is chaining too many or too few kills per magazine? Is there a linear or exponential increase of chain kills for the same gun at a 2.0 K/D ratio? Do we think one gun type should be outperforming another types chain kill potential this way? Are there any obvious outliers?

[stuck verge]

I don't know if it's considered gunplay, but please let us have an option to turn off head bobbing.

[lunar root]

Is there reason to assume that the ratios of kills per mag between guns will vary with player skill?

[sly marsh]

yes to a point

there is a maximum number of kills per mag

and better players get more kills so yes

[turbid plank]

Yes, a player with a higher K/D ratio will make more of his guns ammo capacity / economy than a player with a lower K/D can on average. As he will be more accurate, precise, and controlled in using the gun.

[lunar root]

Yes, but I’m talking with respect to the other guns.

If a gun kills 3 players per mag and another kills 6. What reason is there to suspect a better player will kill more or less than twice as many per mag with gun #2 than gun #1?

[dapper robin]

This is kinda why I think the FAL is overblown tbh

I can get like 3-5 kills per mag, I can get 4-5 consistently with the SG550 or G36C if I hit my headshots which are easier to do and more consistent than the FAL.

[lunar root]

elaborate?

what does it have to do with FAL

[dapper robin]

As a example. Better players will be more likely to use the weapon that gives them the most potential to do more and not so much the upfront damage it offers.

Which is why I personally think extend mags are hit as hard as they are atm in regards to how they affect stats

[lunar root]

ah

FAL is kinda average in regard to kill potential per mag

[blazing burrow]

this would be a great addition.

[dense warren]

Beating the dead horse by now but all semi-automatic weapons need a buffer to resolve issues with rate of fire caused by supersampling mouse clicks.

[sly marsh]

Sorry my smooth brain didnt understand

[dense warren]

If you click too fast and your click interval does not align with the weapon's refire delay, some of your clicks will "not register" and cause an overall lower fire rate.

[sly marsh]

Ty

I experienced this with m110 now that i think about it when forced into cqc

[blazing burrow]

action queueing. Atm here's what happens: a gun can shoot once per second. You can click faster, let's say, once every 750ms.

In other games, clicking once every 750ms will shoot your gun at it's max fire rate, once every second. But without action queueing, every other click is ignored, because the gun isn't ready to shoot yet and your action isn't queued. Instead, by clicking faster, you will lose 50% of your guns fire rate as well as having really awkward aim because sometimes when you click it doesn't respond at all, so trying to control for recoil etc when the gun itself doesn't shoot/kick can throw off your shot. You would have to click every 1001 ms in order to get your gun to shoot when you want it, any faster and you will have your input ignored.

This applies to every action in the game, not just shooting, which is why sometimes there are missed inputs and you're sitting here thinking "I know I clicked the button" but nothing happened, whatever it was.

[finite wind]

Is this for real

💀

Also is once a sec a real value or just for the sake of example simplicity?

[tight pecan]

what do you think happens if you pull a trigger faster than the gun fires

[dense warren]

Nothing when you hit it during the retire delay

[sly marsh]

Tysm

[blazing burrow]

just example for simplicity

[fading bison]

Is your argument that its realistic therefore battlebit should replicate it? That just sounds dumb considering action queueing is standard in every fps game I can think of.

[tight pecan]

if you say so

[lunar root]

I think a buffer makes sense, from a balance standpoint

It makes balancing much easier and also means players can’t effectively cheat with a macro to perform better with the gun

Not a major issue but I think that counts for something

[exotic timber]

A buffer would help for all other actions too. Reloading, switching weapons, interacting...

[lunar root]

Yes, especially when I was a new player I would be annoyed at actions seemingly not registering from invisible delays where I had to wait for some animation to fully finish

[blazing burrow]

I'm annoyed by it immensely and I'm not a new player at all

[faint furnace]

300+ hours and I still haven't gotten used to it

[spiral forge]

@faint furnace has earned the Tier I Member role!

[tight pecan]

thought

it would be nice if the recoil had an acceleration/decelleration curve instead of just seemingly teleporting your view to the end location, its just hard on my eyes at 144hrz
something like jerks your view to the end location over a couple frames and then decelerates to the final location over the next few frames , end result being exactly the same just a little more realistic/less jarring IMO

[lunar root]

decelleration makes sense but also makes recoil way harder to control, acceleration would just be weird though, that should happen faster than human perception

[tight pecan]

~_^

[blazing burrow]

pretty sure it does, it's just very quick. But it's not instant, there's no teleportation

[winter dawn]

My take on gunplay after reaching lvl 150+ in this game: It's good, SMGs are fine, they don't need any kind of nerf. However support class/sniper need movement buffs. They are too weighed down by their kits. I understand their should be a drawback to their loadouts but the super slow speed puts them (esp. support) at a massive disadvantage and it is simply not fun to play--I tried yesterday with M249 support and didn't have fun and went back to Medic. All classes (besides medic) need a lot more bandages, maybe min 10 each.

As far as weapon recoil, that seems to be ok with most guns but ARs should probably have slightly less so they can match SMGs better. Horizontal recoil should not exist in any video game, it's a stupid concept.

Vaulting animation needs to be speed up dramatically, it hinders gunplay and cqc with its slow clunky animation.

Weapon switching speed needs to be much faster, it's too slow.

I also noticed some issues with this latest update, the network hit detection code seems to have some kind of increased latency. My friend and I both observed a significant delay in bullet hit reg and the death animation is also delayed compared to before. This is obvious for example when you shoot an opponent and then see them fall over a sec later well after they should've died. This isn't isolated to one or two situations, it's happened many times across many different servers.

There's been numerous instances of ducking behind a corner and still getting shot because of the client side hit detection algorithm. BattleNonSense did several videos about this in other games that had similar issues.

[wild canyon]

all smgs need that vector distance nerf besides that they either need some buffs or nerfs

[sly marsh]

Ah yes buff everything good - definitely balances game

[sly marsh]

Hoe many of those hours are on medic and how many of those hours are using smgs

[cobalt warren]

Definitely wouldnt work on these type of games, especially Battlebit.

[sly marsh]

Its already unbalanced and this guy wants to buff already good things

[cobalt warren]

SMGs needs a nerf for effective range, ARs should be left untouched

[wild canyon]

Well one of the smgs need buffs specifically the ump

[sly marsh]

No the other smgs need a nerf lmao

[wild canyon]

I said buff or nerf

I guess buffs are the only thing you read

[inner pine]

the ump is already pretty good, it just lasers idk how but apparently people are pretty effective with it

[wild canyon]

i feel ump just needs that little tiny 1 damage buff and needs to adjust that quick mag kill count

needs 500 kills

lmao

[wild canyon]

i think out off all attachment that ump has the most number of kills needed

[hallow totem]

**repeating post every 30% loss until oki understands
#1138534079499862208 message
game lost 1/3 daily peak since im written it (to below 20k from higher than 30k) and continue losing players, and it was just week ago lol
total loss is 3.3/4 daily playerbase

daily lowest is 9k, which means we are close to the point where at certain time intervals queue gonna become long/impossible/worse (high ping)

dont reply on this, im dont care what community thinks about it, yall are too unexperienced and unprofessional**

[inner pine]

and what is he gonna do about it? force people to play the game? the game's not dead man and it's not close to dying
a lot of people just have a life and/or play other games aswell... so like what's your point, yeah longer queues but have you seen queues of some other games? this game has amazing activity

[hallow totem]

im said what he need to do and it takes only basic logic, no money no big studio no billions of effort, just logic

couple of numbers to change in code

[inner pine]

you seem kinda entiteld to tell the devs how to make their game just saying and also don't forget this is still an early access titel so massive changes are still to be expected over i think 2 years at least

[hallow totem]

and im now even will begin explaining how trash your take is

and how unhelpful and empty arguments are

[inner pine]

'scuse me i don't think that's an english sentence xD my man help with feedback don't be that guy being like "uhh my take better game wont survive if things not happen like i say" yes things have to change but that takes time and has to be tested, give the devs that, they are just 3 people and only 1 person codes for the game if i'm not mistaking, so if you are telling me my take is trash maybe look at yourself first and how self centered that proposal of yours was

[hallow totem]

keep being useless, im will try to save our beloved game even if yall will disturb me, cya before another 30% loss

[inner pine]

hey i found you

you don't even have real arguments smh

i'm done here imma get myself a lasagne and i'm sure you're gonna have a wonderful day ^^

[wild canyon]

are you saying you are experienced and professional sir? woah

[wild canyon]

changing the gun stats wont bring back players

bruh thinks just couple of codes can bring thousands back

[lunar root]

Blud thinks imperfect balance is the reason the game hasn’t maintained insane popularity

The balancing is fine. It’s one of the game’s lesser issues

And any game is going to loose popularity after release.

[hallow totem]

#1138534079499862208 message
@lunar root@wild canyon

[wild canyon]

[hallow totem]

3.3/4 total in 2 months<

[lunar root]

Yes

It’s a game release

That’s pretty normal for any that gained a lot of popularity in a short time

I’ve seen games drop to 10% of what they had after a couple of weeks

[hallow totem]

those games died in half of the year

[wild canyon]

like what?

[lunar root]

Not really. They can keep going for many years

[wild canyon]

name and shame the game

[hallow totem]

yea, playing only in prime time

with 10min queues

[lunar root]

Battlebit is riskier because it requires more than most to have active servers

[wild canyon]

dont have to queue

[lunar root]

But it’s well received so I can’t see it dying any time soon

[wild canyon]

theres litearlly a server browser

i dont even queue for the game

[hallow totem]

first thing you said that make sense

you have a potential

[hallow totem]

surely game will stop losing players right now and wont lose another 30% in just 1 week

[lunar root]

Also, do you think you’re better at balancing than the devs are
Because your takes on the current balance are pretty weird

[hallow totem]

lets cope together instead of doing something

[wild canyon]

balancing wont bring back players

[lunar root]

¯_(ツ)_/¯
It will stabilise as all good games do

I cannot predict when that will be.

[hallow totem]

at 5k daily peak

[wild canyon]

thats still a lot for a game 5k daily

[hallow totem]

anyone is better at balancing than a guy who making 2 same guns in his game but 1 is just worse

[lunar root]

As it is a paid game I’m inclined to assume its potential is a bit higher than that

5k daily would limit where you can get full games though

[wild canyon]

bruh thinks he is better

[inner pine]

there are going to be community servers, a lot more guns, maps, a milsim mode and what not how the fuck do you come up with the idea that this game is gonna die within half a year, my god titanfall 2, tf2 have both been neglected by their creators for years yet still those work with titanfall2 literally only working on a community client and community servers

[wild canyon]

when he cant even make his own game]

[lunar root]

Which two are you referring to, out of interest?

[wild canyon]

[hallow totem]

#1138534079499862208 message

[inner pine]

honeybadger and ass val

[hallow totem]

the creator of 2 revolvers, the lord oki himself

[inner pine]

and those two bullshit guns yeah

[lunar root]

Fair, though which of those is better is highly debatable

[lunar root]

That is true.

[hallow totem]

takes 2 braincells to understand that something is wrong with them

[inner pine]

honeybadger cuz it's name is cute and it's an ar soooooo imma go with that

[hallow totem]

not even by playing just in numbers

[lunar root]

Everyone understands that

It just isn’t a priority

[hallow totem]

except main dev

[lunar root]

Because one pistol outclassing another doesn’t ruin the game experience

[hallow totem]

priority is dying?

[wild canyon]

bruh

[hallow totem]

because if its not balance balance and balance, then yes

[wild canyon]

bruh community servers are comming they can do their own balancing

[lunar root]

Priority is working on patches and content updates, including more guns. There will be more balancing but it will come in time with the rest of the updates

[inner pine]

this is priority you clown:
there are going to be community servers, a lot more guns, maps, a milsim mode and what not how the fuck do you come up with the idea that this game is gonna die within half a year, my god titanfall 2, tf2 have both been neglected by their creators for years yet still those work with titanfall2 literally only working on a community client and community servers

[hallow totem]

bethesda

[inner pine]

ea sports

[hallow totem]

fun fact, game dropped much harder after content update

[inner pine]

oh sry i thought we were comparing bad aaa companies

[hallow totem]

because another fact, players waiting for balance and balance only

even if players themselfs dont understand that

[wild canyon]

LMAO

pretty sure

[lunar root]

You cannot actually be trying to insinuate that content updates are a reason people aren’t sticking with the game

[wild canyon]

nvm

[hallow totem]

i do

[inner pine]

my ass is waiting for g3, mg3 and the other weapons coming

[hallow totem]

i have facts

yall have copium

[lunar root]

Nothing will change the curve of the player count. It will just increase the values it ends up settling on

[hallow totem]

we are different

[inner pine]

lil bro's projecting his copium

[lunar root]

So, mr facts, what should we do to save battlebit

[hallow totem]

curve dropped harder after update, because of players was waiting for balance but seen 0 of it

[hallow totem]

first post

[inner pine]

tell us what you'd do

[lunar root]

There was a lot of balancing done

Wdym

[wild canyon]

im not even coping your the one literaly coping to make players comeback and coping balancing is the solution

LMAO

[hallow totem]

and all trash

[wild canyon]

im just here talking to coping clown tbh

[hallow totem]

+0.1 -0.1 isnt balance that will save battlebit

[lunar root]

Your first post was so incredibly unspecific that there is virtually nothing there the devs could use even if they wanted to

[wild canyon]

im just gona react clown on every comment he says

[hallow totem]

but you will lost your beloved game in couple of months not me bozo 🤭

[inner pine]

my dude just fucking tell us, give us a chart or bullet points somth but not "uhm ackshally"

[lunar root]

The difference between bad guns and good guns is minor

[wild canyon]

bruh your the one dooming here

lmao

[lunar root]

So major changes aren’t needed

[wild canyon]

we arent even dooming

[hallow totem]

you want me to create full path note alone?

[inner pine]

he needs to play doom am i right

[inner pine]

yessir, i wanna read that shit

[hallow totem]

pay and im will, i kinda can tho

[lunar root]

If you’re going to suggest ideas you really need to have some clue as to what you actually want

[wild canyon]

bruh thinks we are dooming when he literally dooming over player count

[lunar root]

Like your post is just “balance better i want more balancing”

[hallow totem]

oki surely need create a group of someone that know shit about balance, he is so bad at it, prob worst balance guy of fps

[hallow totem]

i do

[lunar root]

Mind enlightening us

[hallow totem]

first oki should change his focus

from useless patches to balance

because game is nearly ready in everything thats not balance

[lunar root]

I think the upcoming updates are a bit more than useless patches. But what kind of balancing do you think is important?

[inner pine]

oh come on, and it is i will in that context go back to fucking school dude, i'm not even out of the german equivalent of middle school and my english's better than your bullshit

[hallow totem]

and probably after what ive seen, he must purely focus on balance and forgot about everything else

[lunar root]

We have a couple of guns like the RSH-12 that are just bad, but it’s not going to ruin the experience of the game enough to drive away players

[hallow totem]

if you dont trust me like im said, lets watch together what will happen if he wont

🤭

[wild canyon]

[inner pine]

[lunar root]

God that’s a bad argument

[wild canyon]

trust someone who is dooming oh ill trust that guy 100% surely

[lunar root]

Player count is going to decline for some time regardless of whether okidoki listened to your unspecific ranting about balancing

[inner pine]

this debate is even funnier than the medic cod player bs

[lunar root]

If you actually see its continuation as some form of evidence for your point… just a bit sad tbh

[hallow totem]

yall can ignore me if you want your game to die, im dont like battlebit that much so not big loss for me.....

you have 2 choices guys im not deciding for you

😵‍💫

[wild canyon]

yeah we decide

you clown

[lunar root]

Oh no matoi, our saviour! Don’t abandon us in our time of need

Please, tell us! Tell us what you would have okidoki do, as so far you haven’t even suggested one balance idea!

[hallow totem]

game have only 2 ways, balance or death

chose your hero!

[wild canyon]

OMG MY GUN IMBALANCE I CANT PLAY GAME CUZ I KEEP GETTING REKT

OMG

[hallow totem]

nice try

idk....

[wild canyon]

omg balancing the guns surely that will bring player back

[hallow totem]

no it surely wont bro lmao

keep updating maps

and adding more trash guns

[lunar root]

Yo ok we need to stop with these small balance changes. We need to change everything
Gotta get some big numbers in there my bruh

[hallow totem]

game wont die trust me

[lunar root]

Big numbers will save battlebit

[hallow totem]

im random bozo with 3 games played experience

in my life

[wild canyon]

we need battlebit to stop being a blocky game and needs that graphics update

[inner pine]

bro you intelligence denier there are other games out there and if the community of this game wants this game to live it will, there are already community servers that will keep it alive even if the devs abandon it, get your bitchy little doomer ass outta here and let people actually talk about improvements to the game, you're a waste of hardware space and electricity go outside and touch grass

[hallow totem]

too many words

[inner pine]

too little brain space to comprehend easy logical conclusions that you seem to like so much

boi let us talk about tracers getting in the way of aiming at people when shooting at night or even better have the vignette of nvgs not block your view but just being the rest of what you see that isn't covered by nvgs

[hallow totem]

i want to quote one wise man

[wild canyon]

i like how he said 0.01 balancing

[inner pine]

denied

[wild canyon]

wise ,01 guy bruv

[inner pine]

bro please don't go down the path of the pseudo intellectual kafkatrap

and to the 0.01 balancing, it was atleast 40m and 4 boolets taken from the vector

[wild canyon]

we already know this guy just exageratting and panics lmao

[inner pine]

yeah ofc he does

[wild canyon]

0.01 if thats 0.1 thats actually a alot for this game

[inner pine]

oh ye i forgor about the numbers sry xd

anyways 40m of effective range and 4 bullets less is a lot more than that

[hallow totem]

vector was the only balancing, but in the wrong way

[inner pine]

then what is the right balancing, no tell me i want to know fr fr

[hallow totem]

no nerfs

[inner pine]

oh imma go get my lasagne

[hallow totem]

lasagne died

[wild canyon]

i can already see he is a vector main

no wonder man

[hallow totem]

where is the cheat code to get a vector on support

[wild canyon]

yoo wheres the patchnotes

didnt you say you gonna make one

[inner pine]

then how tf do you want to balance overtuned and undertuned weapons man

[lunar root]

By making the ttk of this game even lower, of course!

[hallow totem]

0.300 ttk on most of the guns is surely low lmao

[wild canyon]

patchnotes when sir?

[hallow totem]

on payday

[wild canyon]

bruh cant even contribute either

[hallow totem]

balancing some guns is pointless, this game needs like balance overhaul

takes time bro

[wild canyon]

contributes by dooming

didnt even contribute by actually giving balancing advice on everygun

[hallow totem]

says contributes by nothing

not even nothing, contributes by preventing to do something

[wild canyon]

im not preventing anyone

lmao

bruh thinks im preventing something

[hallow totem]

balance core should be changed at best

no you obv aint

[wild canyon]

yeah then like what?

[hallow totem]

because you wont able to

but you are trying idk for what

[serene bay]

Right, keep it on topic & civil

[finite wind]

gib quicker switching to pistol pls

[inner pine]

pls make your own tracers less visible the closer they are to you, it sucks to ads at night shoot at someone and just completely loose sight of them because you got some yellow flare right in your los

or make bullets come out of your gun barrel all the time regardless of ads or hipfire

i really liked nighttime until i tried using the evo and now i can't get those tracers out of my vision anymore with any high rof weapon, it just fucks with visibility

[nocturne delta]

this game seems to have a very inconsistent hit register sometimes.

that or the tracers are wildly inaccurate from an actual shot.

I think I notice this with the LMGs more than anything else

[inner pine]

happens a ton with the glock, vector and scorpion aswell

[timber widget]

Are you guys planning on reworking the bullet velocity at close range ? The snipers feel great. I just feel like I need to lead my shots way too much at 10-20 meters especially with pistols, 20-30m with other guns.
Here's a video just for a single pistol. This pistol has velocity of 300 so in theory a 20m shot should take 0.06s to hit its target but looking at the lead gap in the video thats pretty nuts.
If you guys do consider my feedback I would take Insurgency sandstorm's bullet velocity system as an example. The first 0.1 second is pre-calculated ( so pretty much hitscan) after that real ballistics are used.
In my opinion this would improve gunplay quite a bit at close-medium range and keep ballistics the same for long range.

Unless ofcourse there's something wrong with the netcode so that I have to shoot infront of people to actually hit them. I doubt that is the cast though.

[inner pine]

it's just the hilarious speed people are moving at in game, like 20kg of gear and they still move with the speed of an olympic runner

(we need milsim mode)

[timber widget]

Doesnt matter what speed you are moving at youre not beating a bullet going at 300-700m/s at 10-20m.

Even on my video where the target is basically sliding relatively slow, I have to lead my shots quite ahead at that range

[lunar root]

What’s the point in “pre-calculating” a certain length of time?

What does that change

Well, what does it even mean would be a good start

[timber widget]

For example The M4A1 has a velocity of 700m/s. So the first 0.1s of you firing your shot the bullet will travel 70 meters. The 70 meters is what needed to be pre-calculated. Every gun will have a different value for this distance. Inside this range your gun will hitscan, beyond it ballistics will take effect.

[wild canyon]

this game isnt hitscan tho

[lunar root]

Hitscan and ballistics are not mutually exclusive concepts

But I don’t know why you’d do that, really

[timber widget]

Yeah they can work together

[wild canyon]

but CoD does both

[lunar root]

Like why does this gun arbitrarily get 70m of hitscan

[timber widget]

Insurgency does it better

[lunar root]

That means the difference in lead between 140m and 210m is double despite being 50% longer travel time

[timber widget]

Because ballistics in games are always bad at close to medium range

[lunar root]

It just seems less intuitive.

[timber widget]

no

[lunar root]

Why?

[timber widget]

no changes to long range

outside of the first 0.1s

ballistics are normal

and calculated with the first 0.1s in mind

[lunar root]

This would change long range by virtue of affecting the gradient making it no longer directly proportional to range

[lunar root]

Ok but why

You still haven’t explained.

[timber widget]

because 0.1s is a reasonable timeframe

[lunar root]

Why do you want the first 0.1 seconds to be squished into being instant

[wild canyon]

its more of a make the gun consistent on close range with the velocity

[timber widget]

because 0.5s would be stupid on some guns

0.1s is a very good number

0.2s you would get 140m hitscan on a rifle

There wouldnt be any changes to long range I dont think you are getting what im trying to say

If ballistic is a graph youre just cutting off the first 0.1s of it to make it consistent for close range

[lunar root]

You’re still ignoring the question

Why should this time squish exist at all

What’s the benefit

[timber widget]

Its not a time squish

Balance to pistols

close range guns

pistols are piss poor and weak right now

aside from being low dmg semi auto

[lunar root]

The first 0.1 seconds are simulated as though they were hitscan. So the 0.1 seconds has been squished to 0 seconds.

[timber widget]

you gotta lead shots at 10-20m

no its def not

most games run into the same problem

[lunar root]

Explain what this means then? This seems so contradictory

You can’t have hitscan in relation to time because time is not a variable for it

[timber widget]

Im not saying to time

so in 0.1s

[lunar root]

If the velocity is sufficiently low then why is that an issue
Velocity is part of gun balance

[timber widget]

how much can your bullet travel

will determine the range that ur gun can hitscan in

No the velocity is correct with pistols compared to their real life counterparts

Did you watch my video ?

[lunar root]

Ok, I will try and reinterpret what you are saying.

If a bullet will hit its target within 0.1 seconds, it is hitscan, otherwise it is normal?

[lunar root]

Yes

[timber widget]

There's no way you need to lead for a bullet that goes 300m/s

on a target

going less than 10km/h

leading is fine ofc

but that much ?

even off target too

and with the way people move in this game too

good luck finding a good spot for pistols in general

[lunar root]

At 10km/h you should need to lead by about 40cm

[timber widget]

10km per hour

not seconds

the bullet goes 300m per second

[lunar root]

I did not change the units

ms^-1 is a far more convenient speed measure and it happens to be obtained by dividing kmh^-1 by 3.6

[lunar root]

(At 20m range)

[timber widget]

so you're still moving around 3m/s

[lunar root]

Yes. Which is fairly fast

[timber widget]

which is

[wild canyon]

are you proposing to make guns all hitscan+normal bullet projectile?

[timber widget]

yes

[wild canyon]

whatever they call the projectile stuff

[lunar root]

What does that mean

[timber widget]

because netcode wont register ur shots fast enough

to make it feel like your bullets are fast at close range

[lunar root]

What’s this got to do with the netcode now

If your bullets are slow they’re slow at all ranges

[timber widget]

also why do i need to lead my shots 40cm

[lunar root]

Because you’re shooting a moving target

With a travel time of 0.15 seconds

[timber widget]

are you shooting him with a sling ?

[wild canyon]

have you not played CoD?

cuz like they do that

[lunar root]

No

[wild canyon]

hitscan <x> amount of time for that distance until it reaches that it becomes a projectile

[lunar root]

Wait no, here it would be 0.067 seconds

Sorry

So about 19cm

[lunar root]

You can’t have hitscan for an amount of time, that’s contradictory

Hitscan is instant

[timber widget]

Youre not getting the point

[wild canyon]

its kinda not

[timber widget]

Uh

[lunar root]

You can hitscan up to a distance the bullet would reach were it to travel normally for a given period of time, if that’s what you mean

[timber widget]

He does not mean time

but distance

yes

[wild canyon]

yeah

[lunar root]

Just reduces the importance of muzzle velocity

[wild canyon]

not really basically the velocity tells you that

where the gun hitscan properties is no?

[timber widget]

No it wouldnt affect velocity outside of the initial hitscan range

[lunar root]

That is the whole point

The initial hitscan range extends the minimum range that bullet velocity matters at, thus lessening its importance

[timber widget]

Its simple just pick up where the hitscan left off

[wild canyon]

^

[timber widget]

its not lessening the importance at all

[wild canyon]

i think he just doesnt get it since he hasnt played games that has both

[timber widget]

I doubt any server can handle calculating thousands of projectiles at once

[lunar root]

I did just explain that and that’s kinda what you were demonstrating earlier as well

You seemed annoyed that velocity was a factor at all ranges

[timber widget]

no

im annoyed that I have to lead my shots so much

[lunar root]

That is really simple to do

[timber widget]

at close range

[wild canyon]

tho interesting take i just think what the guns right now are fine. interesting take tho

[lunar root]

Then use an AR or something

[timber widget]

same with an AR

I lead the same amount

[lunar root]

They tend to have about twice the velocity so you need to lead about half as much.

[timber widget]

Then you gotta send the packets back to the player

Calculating yeah seems fine

then you got packets to send

tell them they hit their shots

[lunar root]

That isn’t hard either. You just need to tell them where and when the bullet was created, from which gun and its direction vector

The clients determine if they hit their shots or not

[wild canyon]

i mean pubg had this problem lmao

[lunar root]

Of course the server denies them if they were theoretically dead when they were fired

[wild canyon]

cuz game isnt hit scan right and it was a big problem back then

[timber widget]

I mean

[wild canyon]

and making the gun hitscan for x distance or time kinda solves some of the hits not registering

[timber widget]

if you look at my video

and you dont see that as a problem

idk what to tell you

Im leading an entire head's worth of length to hit that target at 20m

[wild canyon]

you should like make a video comparing different gun velocity

[lunar root]

Why is that a problem

[wild canyon]

i dont see that a problem too

[lunar root]

Is it just because you’re used to something else so you don’t like this or something

Since you’ve been saying it should be like other games

[timber widget]

No im fine with this

Im proposing this since pistols are weak and at times very inconsistent to hit

Snipers feel absolutely fine

[wild canyon]

tho the hitscan might solve the hits not registering

[timber widget]

^

[lunar root]

This game doesn’t seem to have hit reg issues outside of heavy packet loss

I haven’t seen any evidence of it occurring otherwise

[wild canyon]

oh brother it has you can literally see people complain about it even on reddit

[timber widget]

it most def does

[lunar root]

I haven’t

[wild canyon]

i think your just looking at this on your own experience but thats fair

[timber widget]

I think the hitscan would def help pistols

[wild canyon]

i mean i can see people complain in reddit a lot especially on snipers

LUL

[timber widget]

and make it more consistent for other guns too

[wild canyon]

you wont actually feel it on full auto guns its probably more on snipers i guess

[timber widget]

well right now there's incentive to use DMRs or semi auto

they outright sucks

@lunar root also you dont need to lead 20cm

well techically yes the target moves 20cm

but youre shooting from 20m away

20cm is literally a size of an ant from that far away

[lunar root]

20cm is an upper bound

[timber widget]

for the target

20cm

[lunar root]

The size of 20cm doesn’t change with distance

[timber widget]

yeah it doesnt

but

for you

the shooter

its different

[lunar root]

Meaning what

[timber widget]

Okay

lets say

youre aiming a target at 500m

and the target moves 10m

do you move your aim 10m ?

[lunar root]

You should do if you want to hit the same place.

[timber widget]

uh no

[lunar root]

?

[timber widget]

so do you move ur sniper rifle 10meters when you shoot at someone at 500m and they run away for 10m ?

[lunar root]

You move your aim point 10m.

[timber widget]

or you just rotate ur sniper for prob 20-40cm

[lunar root]

Those are the same thing

But using distance to measure rotation doesn’t make sense

[timber widget]

Im not using it to measure rotations

distance doesnt change yes

[lunar root]

“rotate”
“20-40cm”

[timber widget]

but from the shooter's perspective

you are barely moving

20cm relatively to 20m

is very small