Vehicle - Feedback

[golden valley]

thats actually fucking funny haha

[wide relic]

Isn’t that the clan that dog fights each other if there on opposite teams ?

[earnest ocean]

They dont care

[golden valley]

because you're not a danger

[earnest ocean]

They don't care lmao

[golden valley]

@earnest ocean

[wide relic]

Lol an aa heli would be cool

[golden valley]

helicopters are already aa lol

the biggest danger to a heli is probably another heli

I found a fix for the AA problem! we need more helicopters on every map!

[wide relic]

Lol ya but how often does that happen I’ve seen lbs on some maps outright avoid the other whole match

Isn’t there 3 already ?

[golden valley]

3?

usually not no lol

[wide relic]

On sandy

[golden valley]

2

1 civvie

all the way on the outskirts

[heady jewel]

There 4 on isle i believe but 3 of them are transports

[golden valley]

and 2 blackhawks

[heady jewel]

For each team

[wide relic]

Ah k didn’t remember team must of shot the other one down an stole it

[heady jewel]

127v127

[golden valley]

4 on isle, 6 blackhawks

and a transport

[earnest ocean]

Man even changing your mind and telling it wouldn't do shit to an lb doesn't saves you from grotes meme's

Irrelevant as hell

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/582031909673238528/1049424577501073508/sillycat.gif

[golden valley]

half of the shit you say is so illegible that no one really knows what you're saying half of the time

[earnest ocean]

Its not illegible, its that you ignore my points and only mind to type anything when i reply to you.

[golden valley]

its that you usually dont really have a point

[earnest ocean]

XD

[golden valley]

especially when you circlejerk the same 2 things that have already been disproven multiple times by multiple people

[earnest ocean]

Most of the time when i wrote in the last day's discussions, going in dept into the problems and dissecting you always ignored those and said "TLDR?".

You willfully ignore it because you have no counter arguments on the things i wrote and the you say "wont reading that" to.

Arguing is nice when i argue with you, Grote ❤️

[golden valley]

I said tldr because I read it and it was barely held together by anything

I hoped you would actually make a point instead of writing a bible of nothing

[earnest ocean]

Read it and understand it

[golden valley]

make it legible

make a proper point

[earnest ocean]

Its legible

[golden valley]

to you

[earnest ocean]

Its a proper point

[golden valley]

I don't live in your mind

[earnest ocean]

Please do

[golden valley]

a lot of people are ignoring a lot of what you say because you usually don't say much

90% of the time its me and drew answering and the others not even really bothering

[earnest ocean]

Because its a vehicle topic, the rest are not very much vehicle players.
Keep that in mind.

[desert cove]

True, happens to me every game, not LB player tho

[cedar ember]

Last night we were able to handily scare off an enemy LB with gunfire. Two lmgs.

We still died sadly, but I attribute that to the fact we were in the point next to their spawn, and also had 2 BHs, a tank, an apc and a squad of infantry trying to kill us all.

[thorny mason]

littlebirds are light work with high l-armor damage potential

lmg's are great because of big mags with no need to reload

pdw's are decent too because of their massive l-armor burst damage

[desert cove]

Yeah, P90 has more L-armour dmg than most AR's...

[cedar ember]

feel like most of the SMGs are pretty over-tuned

which makes sense lol... smgs would be the polar opposite of vehicles

[graceful void]

cries in pp2000

cries in UMP

rest of them are good though

[opaque lily]

I've litterally 1v1'd a top teir littlebird pilot in the littlebird transport helicopter on District and my sidegunners won. They even destroyed him. AUG is very powerful.

[sour swallow]

Yeah that was me on the side with the AUG, regular day in the life for a guy like me

[rancid hound]

when AA:

[desert cove]

7k messages guys, most active thread

2.5k is a shitstorm about LB

LMAO

[frigid cloak]

AA would be cool but since there's no planes ever is kinda pointless

Just adding something for infantry like manpads or something

[desert cove]

That's a bad idea, and it was explained here few times

[frigid cloak]

Really

Yikes

AA then would be emplacements or SPAA?

[golden estuary]

no need to add AA, just tune LB stats lol

ITT people who want to use SPAA on infantry

[desert cove]

I don't think there is need for that at all

[frigid cloak]

So true so true

[golden estuary]

And then the next vehicle thread will be "SPAA TOO OP AGAINST INFANTRY"

[desert cove]

Minority wants nerfs/counter to LB

[desert cove]

that's kinda thier role tbh

[golden estuary]

Nerfs to LB yes. Counter to LB is very questionable.

[desert cove]

Unless you nake it missle only

You can't expect vehicle with super fast firing canon to be bad against inf

[golden estuary]

Nah fuck these AA suggestions, let us build those world war 1/2 barrage balloons

Ofc scaled for BBR, as a squad buildable

So we can "reconstruct" the balloon when it gets popped 😂

Have it need an RPG to pop idk, can't have every pea shooter or LB minigun ruining things that easily right 😂

[wide relic]

Dam we need to bump those up 🤣

[desert cove]

No pls no

Let's make echo chamber about tandem OP or how APC sucks soo much

But not another 1k about LB

[magic ingot]

Unpopular opinion but stinger might be just fine if it’s designed to never be able to destroy tail rotor, BH has decent hp and can probably tank multiple shots forcing it to retreat or fly very low (skill) to avoid locked on by multiple at the same time (time to lock and range of locking TBD) while effectively deterring LB cuz they have way less hp

[desert cove]

Stinger will never be fine if it will be avalibe to everyone

You need to make it rewarding and it needs to feel like it does something

[magic ingot]

Define everyone?

[desert cove]

But then you give to everyone

[magic ingot]

Does engineer access count as everyone

[golden estuary]

in a 127v127 server... how many stingers do you think are gonna clap ur ass cheeks

[desert cove]

Possibility of 127 engis with stingers

[golden estuary]

especially at start of round, when helis are rolling out

[magic ingot]

Time to lock and limited counter measure should do it

[desert cove]

no, they will not

10 stingers locking at 1 heli is extremly possible

Like, it would hapen

every time

[golden estuary]

just look at bf4 for example lol

[magic ingot]

I’ve also said it has limited locking range you can’t just lock a bh 1 km away

Range plays a key factor

[desert cove]

Right now you can have 10 engis shooting at a tank, and few people running with C4 in hand

Avability is a big proble

[magic ingot]

If range is limited only a small amount of people can actually try to lock

[desert cove]

Squad solves it by limiting AT per squad/team. Only 2 LAT per squad, so like 6? among 50 player team. And only 2 hat per team, so 2 out 50 players

[golden estuary]

just where are you flying the LB that there are "only a small amount of people"

[magic ingot]

Isn’t it always back cap

Noone defends

[desert cove]

It would not. Tandem is range limited, nothing stops 10 people from running it on 1 point.

Start doing good, and they duble

[magic ingot]

Tandem is never range limited but rather scope intentionally F you to be hard to aim at anything further

Engi would also be giving up its beloved rpg which has way wider applications, from what I observed about what people bring as primary gadget, few would equip them

People concern about their own gain over teams’

[desert cove]

doesn't matter if it's hard to aim further. Game allows you to get like 50m close to target anyway, with it's abundance of cover.

[magic ingot]

When I can do whatever with C4 why bring mines to help area denial

[desert cove]

Like, daying to RPG i can't see is rare, and propably one shot anyway

[magic ingot]

Do you not think a bh owe to die flying over waki bridge

It currently doesn’t

[desert cove]

I don't understand your point, feels out of context

[magic ingot]

I also don’t understand your point

If you can run that close to tank might as well c4 it, it was never designed to fight in urban settings

[desert cove]

shame all points are urban areas

How vehicle is supposed to PTFO

You can't incentivise camping as a dev for fuck sake

[magic ingot]

Why not?

Do you think blobbing is more interesting?

[desert cove]

Camping is boring playstyle that is one sided in vehicle case, no one likes campers

incentivising it is just stupid

like why?

[magic ingot]

The problem with the game now is over aggressiveness

Almost feel like the old days knifing people in cod game

[desert cove]

Nah, map design then balance(this is worked on) and then lack of anything other than conq

[golden estuary]

AT mines are mostly just a minor inconvenience lol

[magic ingot]

No map design is gonna stop first minute backcappers

Who was talking about at mines?

Littering AP mines is the area denial

[golden estuary]

"littering" 4 mines 😂

[magic ingot]

When an entire squad do so it’s 32

[golden estuary]

but yeah, still more useful than AT mines... mfw we in vehicle thread

[magic ingot]

On par with old solo support spam

But you never see that

[golden estuary]

i've not killed a single vehicle with the AT mine

[magic ingot]

People don’t cooperate in pubs

[limpid flame]

Xd

[golden estuary]

they're just so blindingly obvious in any places vehicles would want to go

[desert cove]

yeah, and easy to destroy

[magic ingot]

They cooperate taking out tank only because tank will kill them fast and they want to get rid of it asap

[desert cove]

dying to AT mine is in 99.999% of cases drvier skill issue

[magic ingot]

I doubt people go for transports

[desert cove]

the rest is a guy who really had great idea where to put it

[magic ingot]

I see a lot of backcappers try putting mines on the way out of spawn

[golden estuary]

if only AT mines were less obvious and did more damage 😂

[magic ingot]

It’s ridiculously predictable

[golden estuary]

and so obvious as well, right in the middle of the road

[magic ingot]

It would be more interesting if it’s some kind of IED

[golden estuary]

like some kind of.... c4? 😂

[desert cove]

that would be bad for the game

[magic ingot]

Maybe even allow tapping them into the vehicles on the side of the road

[desert cove]

Vehicles alredy die to much

[golden estuary]

that's a whole nother issue of vehicles just being shit

[magic ingot]

Make every roadside vehicle a bomb

[desert cove]

Squad have one shot kill mines, 1 per squad, on like 15kmx15km map lol\

[golden estuary]

how many AT mines does it take to kill a MBT?

[magic ingot]

If you crash them they explode and damage you

[golden estuary]

cuz i swear i've hit 4 on tanks and still no kill

[magic ingot]

I believe 2?

[golden estuary]

nani

[desert cove]

BBR or Squad?

[magic ingot]

Humvee die to 1

[golden estuary]

BBR

[magic ingot]

BTR doesn’t have much more hp than humvee

[desert cove]

Mine does 14 dmg to a tank, if you trigger with front hitbox, it's 7, with rear one, 28

[magic ingot]

Wait what

[golden estuary]

LMAO WHAT

[magic ingot]

That matters??

[golden estuary]

1 C4 is more effective lmao

what the fuck hello

[magic ingot]

Bruh

[desert cove]

BTR takes less HEAT shots to kill than a black hawk

[golden estuary]

vehicle feedback - shit is whack

[desert cove]

That's exacly we have 7k messeges

we were at 4.5k before littlebird toipic

Too much shit to talk about

lmao

[golden estuary]

LB is hotter issue cuz LB affects a lot more infantry players, while tanks/apcs being shit only affects the people in those vehicles

[magic ingot]

Ngl I’m also having problems with transport LB, they’re ridiculously agile and very hard to stop it from hotdropping an entire squad

[golden estuary]

Yeah, the spawn mechanics makes it oof

[desert cove]

they are also very paper tho

[golden estuary]

Trying to chip a LB to death is a futile effort most times, they just zip off to repair

[magic ingot]

Yeah light armor is also paper armor, agility is the name of the game

[golden estuary]

So you just have to hope for a fat hit like RPG or pilot kill

[magic ingot]

Or a btr happen to be around and not reloading

[golden estuary]

I saw that reddit post of the c4 sending a BTR to space

[magic ingot]

It takes 6 btr shells to kill it

Like, seriously

[golden estuary]

god damn BTR physics is wild

[magic ingot]

BTR get send to the moon by any exploding damage for no good reason

APC head on duel often wins by the side that stops moving first cuz guess what your opponent gonna knock you all over the place if you’re moving

And apc brake is jank

[desert cove]

Does this vid works?

[golden estuary]

Lmao btr became a pro skater

[desert cove]

Balerina, like from swan lake

[magic ingot]

One time I appreciate this jank is when enemy rpg flip me 180 and make my gun point directly at him

Oh boi you made a bad choice…

[desert cove]

but most of the time he will flip you 180 when you are running away

[magic ingot]

I was leaving spawn

[golden estuary]

Not even jeeps get shaken or bounced around this badly

[magic ingot]

…. Yeah!?

Why does tank and apc need to suffer all these

[desert cove]

Who knows

I suppose it's that way becouse oki crunched them 3 years ago in one night

After 10min of testing them in Squad training range

[wide relic]

I hate the steerin so much

[desert cove]

Yeah, apc for some reason, is able to jump on smallest bumps

And this mf always will turn left while in flight

ALWAYS

[wide relic]

It just amazes me there’s no fall damage for vehicles but people it instant death dependin how high up u are

[desert cove]

That's a good thing that there is no fall dmg

Imagine being pushed from waki bridge by a quad💀

[wide relic]

🤣🤣🤣 just wish it was for infantry to I have been pushed offf waki wit a quad an humvee ….

[rancid hound]

nah fam just add Javelin it's anti everything

let's ruin the game cuz why not

[wide relic]

Least they won’t have to fire it in a building

[earnest ocean]

I'm against heat seeking missiles but thinking into the fact that if everyone in a team would use just a stinger for 1-2 heli is unreal.

If one team is just the stinger, and the other is varied between classes and equipment, the people who use only the stinger will suck cuz they won't be able to counter anything else only helis or inf with their primary.

There were squads/clan in bbr history who only ran medic or engineer, tho those squads will have only one purpose, something like you have a massive pro but also a massive con.

Being more varied in equipment is key, if everyone has the same they will dominate one thing, but they will be dominated by most other things.

[heady jewel]

If there was a stinger I’d rather it be a ground pickup or something

[desert cove]

They do exactly that for any tank they see. All I see from you is only AT gameplay, and you still understimate how players are dedicated to that

[limpid flame]

You do not get how much targeting infantry players are able to do Just to put a single vehicle down

[magic ingot]

Bro rpg is anti everything

It’s just flying c4

I don’t bring rpg for the sake of anti tank, cuz they kill people or break walls just as good

It’s not as laser focused as a stinger which is pure aa

[winged adder]

astill think vehicle balance will improve if the frag is actually made the antipersonel option

[unique jackal]

Stinger or any type of auto-aim/homing weapon is such a drastic balance change

[winged adder]

Right now HEAT is anti-eveything, so every single engi will run it (or tandem)

Step two, remove the magic superglue from c4 and make it have mass so you can't yeet five of them onto a tank 10m away in under 5s

[magic ingot]

Iirc back when I used to play cod6 stinger require you to maintain track of the target for a certain amount of time before it can acquire a lock

Even then a chopper cannot be downed by1 cuz hp

[winged adder]

Hell, remove c4 entirely, and replace it with satchels (drop only) and breaching charges(long set up)

[magic ingot]

Someone mentioned oki doesn’t want to touch c4

[unique jackal]

Most maps are super open. I don’t see timed targeting changing all that much

[magic ingot]

I don’t remember who and I have no source

[winged adder]

(and if you let someone put a breaching charge on your tank, you deserve your death 😄 )

[unique jackal]

I don’t want c4 removed, I would like it class restricted and without 1m range where it snaps to the nearest surface

[magic ingot]

#1138533470348525699 message

[unique jackal]

I was responding to you about stinger targetting which would impact the most useful class of vehicles in the game?

[magic ingot]

Yeah I was saying if there are to be stinger they will have a limited range for locking (150m?)

(Sorry, just middle finger to LB)

[winged adder]

imo, any kind of stinger should be map limited and probably tied to the point closest to spawn. Eg, an avenger humvee with two tubes, one shot each

[unique jackal]

If you were really looking to “balance” LB I don’t think you should be looking outside the vehicle. There’s simple changes you could make if you wanted it less powerful

[magic ingot]

It’s not just about powerfulness of the armed version

Transport one can also be cancerous since they cannot be take down fast enough before it hot drops an entire team

[winged adder]

Side note, can we get rid of the gun little birds passenger seat? tired of accidentally spawning in it

Doesn't even have a rope, so you just have to hope you splat onto a medic

[unique jackal]

Transports are lucky if they get 2 fulls squad drops in a 30 minute game. Most of the time they’re just meandering with gunners and acting as a taxi for the one guy backcapping

And for LB transport it’s the same just without two miniguns that can’t hit the side of a barn

[unique jackal]

Gun LB has rope last I flew it

Pilots prob just don’t want to get close to ground lol

[winged adder]

Then let the passenger drop it (letmeout.gif)

[unique jackal]

If there was more team coordination I could see your point but currently transport helis are hardly used except for start of match

[magic ingot]

I mean, as of current state of the game it’s just a better bh

Smaller, faster, almost same capacity

[unique jackal]

Yeah, but still never used except for start and backcapping on tensa. Which will prob let a pilot get 15 spawns in a game, doesn’t seem like a big deal to me

[magic ingot]

What other map features transport lb?

[unique jackal]

sandy has one in the corner, district, the power plant one, pretty sure river. Prob a few more. Haven’t played in a bit

Can’t even check because wiki just doesn’t have info

[heady jewel]

Frugis 127v127 has a transport spawn

[torpid elk]

No, not unless you want to make battlebit resemble Ukraine even more.

helicopters there are more frequently using long range standoff strategies because of manpads. Tanks also need to be extremely careful due to the prevelance of antitank weapons everywhere.

we already have the extreme range carful standoff tactics of tanks in battlebit, we need to not nerf helis in a way that makes this the dominant strategy too (unless oki lied and changes his mind and makes battlebit a milsim at which point i guess all of this is fine )

[tulip ibex]

When are the gunners getting transport bonus???

[unique jackal]

When are the gunners getting usable guns???

[earnest ocean]

I play tanks, APCs and i played against them too.

If you killed a lot of people (pissed off) then they will try to find you.
And if you don't leave a trail behind, they will make sure you die.

You underestimate my experience as much as you say that I underestimate how people are dedicated to to it, I know when they spam me that some of them use tandem and some use heat.
Variety is key.

I love playing tank just because there will be squad of people who will try to destroy you.

Back in the day it was popular to be sniper squad, so does today.
Or other class based squad.

There will be people who use only a class, but that's the thing, if engis come to my doorstep, if i kill one of them or most of them, there won't be a medic around them, they will need to come back from the nearest spawn.
Because they chose only one thing to do, they can't sustain eachother's health, or replenish ammo to eachother.

[wide relic]

An that’s y I do drone c4 for tanks special delivery

[strange galleon]

Oh yeah, cause they can't revive each other without a medic, or heal themselves without a medic, and for sure they can't just die and spawn in their teammates exactly where they died in less than 10 seconds without a medic

btw, I have no idea what you guys were talking about, but found funny that you made 3 claims that are totally false one afther the other xdd

[opaque lily]

Lock on stingers would ruin helicopter 1v1s since people in the back seats will be firing them.

Terrible suggestion

[wide relic]

Only if they make it not fire able in vehicles kinda like javelins in other games can’t be fired from in building

[desert cove]

That's not the problem. AA lock on missles will hurt transport helis MUCH more than armed LB.

There's like 2-3 transports on most maps, and only one LB per team, sometimes only one at all

[opaque lily]

Buff the transport helicopter's miniguns. Make their damage equal to the littlebird's miniguns

[thorny mason]

i don't really think that's all too necessary given that they're gimbaled and manned by two separate gunners, not the pilot

[cedar ember]

I wouldn't mind the BH guns to have a little less spread

[opaque lily]

It takes 10+ shots to kill an enemy with armor. The medic box can even outheal the damage per second of the minigun

[cedar ember]

Incorrect, it's about a 2-3 shot ko

[opaque lily]

Wrong.

[clever vessel]

that's the minigun's spread, not the dmg

[thorny mason]

this is pretty exaggerated

[opaque lily]

Not that's the damage, as in actual hitmarkers on an enemy. It's btk

[clever vessel]

minigun could afford a faster turn speed and decreased spread imo

[cedar ember]

Minigun is not a 10 shot kill lol

It's just inaccurate as heck

[opaque lily]

It is on armor, and as I said it can actually not even kill a medic with a medic box

[clever vessel]

definitely not LB-level but i think tightening at least like .25-.40x would do good

[cedar ember]

Expect you can't heal armor. After the armor is gone, it's a 2-3 kit kill.

[clever vessel]

look i'm really sorry but i don't think there's any infantry that can survive 10 consecutive hits in quick succession

but it's not in quick succession it's 10 hits spread out across like 50 bullets missed and circling around because of how bad the spread is

[opaque lily]

medic + helmet armor or Exosuit with bandages can.

[cedar ember]

I believe it's the same damage numbers as the 50cal on the humvee. Just much harder to hit.

[opaque lily]

holy fuck lmao

[clever vessel]

i think it's closer to the 7m in damage profile? but no way to test it though

[opaque lily]

It is less

[cedar ember]

Somewhere around there

[clever vessel]

either way its damage is fine but the sheer spread turns its dps into shit

it doesn't need to be amazing at anti-infantry but at least it should be competent imo

[cedar ember]

They should have the spread open up as it heats up

[clever vessel]

ooh that's a good option

[opaque lily]

Mr Kuro. you need to try out the miniguns for real.

[clever vessel]

you can't just infinite sustain fire then

[cedar ember]

Max heat = current spread

[clever vessel]

...what about this suggests i haven't

[cedar ember]

I have about 250 kills on the minigun lol

[clever vessel]

i've been a BH gunner and repairgirl since like day 2 of this game's release

[opaque lily]

You would know how little damage they do if you did.

[clever vessel]

it's absolutely not that it doesn't do damage, because it shreds the living shit out of L-armored vehicular targets

[cedar ember]

I think it's pretty clear that you are underestimating the damage @opaque lily . Three different people have said as much.

[opaque lily]

I'm talking about infantry

[clever vessel]

but when your bullets are going roly-poly around the enemy you sure as hell ain't hitting them before they get to cover

not a skill thing, just the spread

wonder how it compares to other heli miniguns in comparable games

[opaque lily]

Not talking about bullet spread. Actual hitmarkers on an enemy is in the range of 6+ and can go as high as 10+

[cedar ember]

Pilot skill issue. They need to be able to put me 30 feet off my target while also keeping me alive 😂

[clever vessel]

smh pilot why didn't you put the helo at ground level

[cedar ember]

They need to activate their phase drive to dodge the RPGs first

[clever vessel]

actually that's a thing i used to do with the BHs a lot before the tandem got really popular, which is strafe center points at about 40-50 feet just to take out sniper nests

not survivable, would not recommend lmfao

[cedar ember]

Still pretty viable in 64s when you finally get a lobby not in domination

[clever vessel]

JP servers killed 64s sadly

haven't seen one in two weeks

[cedar ember]

😮

That's a shame. I really like 64s for vehicle play until they stop letting every single person carry c4 and AT nades

[clever vessel]

heh

i will say, we've reached this period in the game where my IFV/tank experience is flipping a bit back to the early experience in the game before patch 2.1

where there's less tandems and more HE (but 100% more C4)

just because every lobby is at minimum 40% medics in 127 now lmfao

[cedar ember]

Yeah, i can survive decently, but if I push i keep my squad on top of me

I will usually either die to a C4 dude, OR a C4 Drone lol

[clever vessel]

i can def still do this on eduardovo and valley thankfully

i like those two maps the most for conq

on the other hand salhan, tensa, frugis are gone cases

[cedar ember]

Salhan apc for me. Just sit in the river

It takes some practice, but you can live for a while until somebody one hits you with a tandem

[desert cove]

Wait, what?

254 is again playable?

[desert cove]

Always have been

[torpid elk]

you are right, it takes WAY more shots than 10 with its accuracy

[torpid elk]

it actually does. you actually have a brief few fractions of a second where the spread is manageable until the heat blooms it out into never hitting anything territory

[cedar ember]

I feel like the strating point is a little off 😛

and yeah, accuracy in mind, its a 100 shot kill

[past widget]

Certain gamers complain about "RNG" when it comes to certain mechanics, like aim punch, but they're fine with the RNG of weapons like the minigun. You users know who you are! Be ashamed and repent! Your concerns are a façade!

[torpid elk]

mofos be complaining "shotguns would be too RNG" and then forget the minigun exists 😩

we already have a shotgun apparently

[desert cove]

RNG is bad enough in singlplayer games, in multiplayer FPS, there is no place for that.

APC accuracy buff when

[torpid elk]

i disagree, i think rng can have a vital place in all sorts of games. generally, the higher the rng of a game the more it depends on good decision making rather than pure mechanical skill. you place yourself in a situation where you get to roll your dice freely a bunch of times with good chances vs putting yourself into situations where the odds are stacked against you

now how much rng? thats a better question

i think when people complain about rng, their real issue is with predictability rather than the innate randomness that might exist. you can have a game that is extremely predictable despite a lot of randomness simply because randomness will average itself out over time

[desert cove]

"...Higher the rng of a game, the more it depends on good decisions making..."
Good Sir, have you ever played an MMO? Have you ever been forced to spend a week farming items to acces end game content, but was gatekeept by low % chances, due to rng?

[torpid elk]

i have indeed. i play tabletop games too where there are literally dice rolls all the time

[desert cove]

Tabletops are kind of other thing

Anyway, RNG bad, if too much

Simple as

[torpid elk]

anyways, i think the real issue isnt the existence of randomness but rather the nature of the distribution. people tend to prefer a normal distribution where an "average" outcome is more common than an extreme outcome. this is the logic behind stuff like 4d6-4 vs d20 and other dice system conversions

its why a sub 1% drop feels like shit, particularly when you are grinding on a single enemy who respawns like once a minute or something awful like that

[desert cove]

Yeah, the consistency really makes a difference, seeing average more often doesn't hurt that much

[clever vessel]

Not as much playable as it’s receded somewhat as a compounding effect of how overly powerful medic is

Meta just setting down

[torpid elk]

you are betting on an extreme outcome and you dont even have the benefit of being able to roll dozens of times per second

[desert cove]

It doesn't activates neurons like big numbers, but doesn't punishes like small ones

[clever vessel]

Sorry to interrupt lmfao my internet just came back

[desert cove]

Np man

[torpid elk]

yea, so like if the helicopter guns instead had something like "50% of shots land within of 1 meter of your target at 100 meters out, 50% of the shots that landed outside that 1 meter land within 2 meters, 50% of the shots that land outside those 2 meters land within 3 meters" and so forth it would feel like all your shots generally head where you are aiming with some ocasional stray shots

obviously the numbers and how it is calculated is up for discussion

but that example would create a denser clustering of shots where you are aiming instead of how it currently feels as though you are shooting around where you are aiming

it feels like im drawing a circle around my target with my missed shots

[clever vessel]

This actually brings me to a random question: are the rhib miniguns just the bh ones?

From personal experience they’re about the same

[rancid hound]

i think they are

[earnest ocean]

Here, feel free to read it if you don't understand something.
https:// + docs.google.com/document/d/1u1i1LMy2s1IoJIw4MxVN_QM1FBWDUH8NdYROAaVodzE/edit?usp=sharing

[clever vessel]

man wouldn't it have been easier to use a google doc

[limpid flame]

too long

not reading that

[clever vessel]

ᵇ²Experience: If you kill a lot of people with anything(tank), prepare for a 3-14 engi (around a squad) to come. (Reinforcing statement ³ and ᵃ¹)

ᵇ³I like playing tanks because of this, having adrenaline, not knowing when they come, until the very last moments. (Reinforcing statement ᵇ¹)

...

i tried to read all of it, and i still do not get it

5 minutes of my life i'm never getting back

[limpid flame]

my guy is talking about this game as if it was competetitive game, when actually there is nothing like actual preplanned teamwork, more or less common goal that teams follow and understand what they have to do, to achieve their desired goals. No talk about diversing your team is necessary here, it is simply 128 random ass players who will play what they like the most. Engineer being one of most used classes will be in great percentage of game usage, then with addition of stingers/igla

PLUS those ones that use RPGS, and you have an absolute HELL for both LBs and even more so for blackhawks

you DO NOT GET IT, you waste your time by typing an absolute BUNCH of nonsense.

[clever vessel]

yeah it's like
there aren't actually any benefits towards significant team diversification in the current game-state, so class diversification is nearly moot

the most benefit you get is like putting a medic and a sup together in a 3:1 ratio for a squad (assuming that somehow you've managed to get 8 people to play together in bbr, which is freaking magic) just because... that's what works

[limpid flame]

it doesnt even matter, you die, you spawn somewhere again, rinse and repeat

[clever vessel]

yeah

class diversification is so incredibly moot when lives are so bloody cheap

[limpid flame]

the revive option or ammo refill is a nice addition that you might use or might never using during a game

some people dont revive

some people never drop ammo boxes

In a game of this scale, people use what they like the most, or what they consider meta, not what they think will be the best fit for the team

the whole talk about "oh i play tanks and when i kill a lot of people i expect them to come for me"

that is the dumbest shit i have heard

[clever vessel]

tbh it's not about scale as much as it is about arcade imo

[limpid flame]

people hunt vehicles cause it's fun for them and free points, they will do it on sight

[clever vessel]

you get the same level of arcade in a 6v6 game if you design it to do so

[limpid flame]

if you just show up in their FoV that monkey neuron activation happens

imagine a situation where you cross some field and there is a whole squad waiting

you may kill some but there will be rockets and c4 flying at you

the same way helis are IN THE SKY so EVERYONE can attack you

[clever vessel]

okay that aside if this is true then i'm 1000% behind a spread reduction

like that thing can barely kill infantry... at 15m ranges

while still

the turn speed just doesn't help either when every player can fly about like they're on crack

[limpid flame]

you have tanks, IFV, boats, RPGS, annoying persistent snipers, Regular firearms able to deal damage and you want to add another source of damage that will be borderline unavoidable for lower skill pilots, like it hardly changes much for us high level pilots but only fucks up the gameplay for lower level pilots even more

@earnest ocean

all that bunch of text is a huge nonsense, imma keep it a buck with you my guy

[earnest ocean]

the whole text had the purpose of clearing up the messages between Drew and Me to the Atomo guy.
And the text is mostly about why it is unlikely that all 128 players will use only one equipment, not just Igla or stinger, anything, and the strenght that using one equipment would make your team overall weaker to everything.
Point of text is not adding igla nor stinger, just going in theory that while all 128 players could use it but ultimately would be useless, because if all 128 players use igla they can only kill inf on mid range, and kill ground vehicles defensively.

I can convert it into docs, for the ease of reading

[limpid flame]

When it will be added, there will be a fuckton of people using it just cause it's a new thing, and a way for them to kill the "helis that they hate so much"

even after it settles back to normal levels it will still be an opressing tool for all aerial vehicle players

to a point where it will not be fun

BF2042 already has that issue

and they play 64v64

128v128 will only make it worse

it's a bad idea

maybe if it was a pickup

somewhere

that not everyone can have

maybe if it was a stationary target defending the central part of the map(where the most fighting usually happens) that can be destroyed and/or built

but as a gadget this will absolutely fuck up the vehicular balance

[clever vessel]

Honestly, hot take: 10 stingers is functionally the same threat level as 128, because either way it’s a ranged lock-on with high damage

[earnest ocean]

I mean it can be tweaked damage, range, fov, speed, avalaiblity vise. I understand if you guys do not like it.

some person said that it could be picked up from the ground like something like a special drop.
Though as I said I am not all over Heat seeking missiles.
I never said the intention of the text is to add Heat seeking missile launchers.

[desert cove]

So why are you arguing so adamantly for them? At best, you are sending mixed signals.

[earnest ocean]

I am arguing against your reason, not exactly for them.

[desert cove]

Yeah, it can be tweaked, to s point.
Every tool, if added, muf feel good do use. Player cannot get thier hands on some mushy, moist shit that doesn't feel effective at all, nor fun to use, for balance purpose.
There needs to be feeling of it beeing effective and doing something.

[earnest ocean]

I understand.
if there ever will be Heat seekers, they can be in only two outcomes, reading your answer and getting it in conclusion.
A its inneffective, and can be found at everybody.
B its effective but its rare as hell

[desert cove]

And avalibity is another thing, game currently doesn't restrict gadget amount per player. Everyone runs fucking C4, and everyone can switch to tandem engi on a moment notice.
Adding stingers will lead to situations where there is 10,15, 20 even more engis with them in a field, because they can.
That means more players running good counters to very limited threat, making any air gameplay basically impossible, like armour one now.

[desert cove]

Definitely option not A or B, but both. Everyone engi starts with HEAT, balanced but still efective tool. And everyone can run tandem, extremely effective tool, that's gives any engi capability to solo armour, and it happens.

[clever vessel]

i think the other thing heat seakers does beyond that is also cheapen the value of air/anti-air activity to begin with

the first effect is it kills pilots. so in general pilots start playing even more conservatively.
the second effect is that this eventually evens out to people just switching to it whenever the one heli pops out into the main, taking it down, and then everything is neutered

as opposed to 'everyone carrying one', it just becomes 'everyone who noticed the heli switching to having one', and zoning it out of the arena

which is... literally exactly what happened with the ground vehicles, but at least the good speed and maneuverability ensures that the LB can escape spawn and probably return consistently

[desert cove]

Just like with HEAT/Tandem. Most runs Heat, because its more flexible. But the moment freshly spawned tank shows up, or competent player starts doing well, people are switching to tandems, and they multiply like some kind of bacteria

[magic ingot]

people don't "switch to" rpg seeing a humvee

[clever vessel]

yeah of course they don't it's a humvee, just take out your all-purpose c4

[desert cove]

Sometimes they do, if you use it correctly, people will want you gone

Like on Basras cliffs, US side, you can basically put 7m humvee behind map structures to make it very hard to snipe/shoot out players. So heat is only option on range

[clever vessel]

also special mention for eduardovo and valley where a good humvee can really blunt a blob push from the main point

[desert cove]

People are just under utilise humvees tbh

Maybe the addition of Mraps in future will change it

[earnest ocean]

but with tanks and apcs yes

[tulip ibex]

Soooo... when are the gunners getting transport bonus?

[desert cove]

Who knows

It's a change to vehicle gameplay, so probably never

Like, we are waiting a year or so for night vision for APC

[earnest ocean]

imagine flir on apc

[rancid hound]

awesome as hell bro, flir on everything except vehicles

[desert cove]

That's doable, tank have it, APC also should, the gap between them is too big for what both are offering

[rancid hound]

tank commander has it

gunner still blind

[desert cove]

Tank commander needs to go

No one is using it

It's boring gameplay, and can't really be improved

Even in squad tank squads are 2 players, 3 is there is RWS

Commander sight is game design mistake

Shouldn't even been born into arcade

[cedar ember]

The co-pilot seat in the BH should get a flir camera to paint targets.

[earnest ocean]

If someone is using it 50% they will not get out and not use it.
So commander sometimes ends up trolling the gunner

[desert cove]

Yeah, at this point, unles you seriously communicate, which is inpropable unless with premades, its just easy xp farm, especially when gunner is good

[cedar ember]

I agree. Commander and gunner seats should be combined. Worst case, make the gunner switch between the flir camera and the gun

[desert cove]

Making it flir with 15-20 sec use and 20-25 sec recharge, but with Hz thats worth the human being would work

[earnest ocean]

man not the hz

reduction to 24 is okay but under that, i will scratch my eyes out

[desert cove]

24 is what flir scope should have

[earnest ocean]

they have 14

[desert cove]

So they should have more

[rancid hound]

It's so painful in LAV/BTR when you get shot by an other LAV/BTR. You start to make backflip/frontflip/360/[Insert Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 Combo]

[earnest ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/904059795047317624/1141369993351675964/Replay_2023-08-16_15-48-54.mp4

Soviet's clip

[wide relic]

That game had the best soundtracks

[magic ingot]

Day 1 of asking removing aim punch on vehicles

[rancid hound]

spinny moment

[earnest ocean]

get spinned

[torpid elk]

Thats some loony tunes shit man.

[limpid flame]

https://tenor.com/view/rotate-gif-25402076

[cedar ember]

Good gosh every day I am reminded how awful the tail rotor is on the BH...
Was trying to do runs and escape beforethe LB got me... I was outplaying him super hard until he randomly got two his on my tail and took me down...

That mechanic just undermines skill in its entiraty... We even had an engi reparing on board too

[wide relic]

In other games u could knock the heli by tapin it from above only did minimal damage to

[magic ingot]

Suggestion: make tail rotor destructible only when BH has hp below certain threshold

Or make it a separate hp pool like armor

[desert cove]

BH rotor just needs more HP that's all

Being destroyed by one shot from APC that could also miss and hit tail, dealing dmg with splash, is a joke

[cedar ember]

I still think the tail rotor mechanic should be moved to happen when the BH takes lethal damage. Tail rotor hits could just be 2x damage.

Means a well placed heat/tandem would really hurt.

So the heli always spins out when the health pool hits 0

[magic ingot]

How many times have you hit a bh with rpg

[cedar ember]

I have def been hit before... espcially when trying to be effective with my gunners on the ground

forces you close in

bh is 100% a non-threat when high up

[magic ingot]

Are you sure it’s rpg

Hint: tank ap shell looks like rpg

[desert cove]

There is like, 90% certainty that's it is HEAT

[opaque lily]

Tandem will already 1 shot a transport chopper at full health killing all 12 occupants instantly.

Starting to join the littlebird hate gang but for completely diffrent reasons. Their miniguns are way too good compared to the transport helicopters miniguns. Last night I was beamed out in like 0.010 seconds from the opening burst of a littlebird and died instantly so my chopper was freefalling. I was able to spawn in and limp back to base after everyone else in side was killed one by one from the littlebird. It's rate of fire is just nuts. You will sometimes see a whole line of bullet holes in your windscreen. Like 25+ in a straight line from a single burst. I wish I had screenshots.
The littlebird's miniguns can kill in 3 bodyshots and are continiously accurate with insane rate of fire while the transport helicopter's miniguns take 6+ with huge dispersion when not bursting and with beyond lackluster rate of fire.

[desert cove]

So lets buff transport miniguns to the LB standard

[limpid flame]

BH is a transport, the guns should not be exactly like LBs as LBs main role is aerial combat And pressuring infantry, tho I truly agree on the fact that BH needs accuracy buffs, not laser like LB but definitely the cone of spread should be tightened

[opaque lily]

It's already accurate when you do proper delayed bursts. The guns are based on the same real life minigun and should have the same damage properties for both the transport and the littlebird.

[limpid flame]

Even if you give spread to LB it will only hurt lower skill pilots

That 1% of the top will still slay

[opaque lily]

I don't care for spread.

only damage

bullets to kill

[limpid flame]

Fire rate is OK

[opaque lily]

lol no, they are incomparable

[limpid flame]

Damage is a thing I can not speak about cause at Times infantry players take 5-6 shots And are still alive And sometimes they seem to get hit by single bullet And die instantly

Besides a good BH squad can deal with LB Just by accurately shooting at the windshield

[opaque lily]

Most times we outright destroy the littlebird instead of killing the pilot whereas they will kill all our occupants instantly, including pilot through the windsheild

[limpid flame]

Thats because the spread on BH miniguns is too shit

This is why im saying it needs to be tightened a bit

So you have a fair way of fighting back

[opaque lily]

first and foremost the damage disparity between the two makes it uneven + the windsheild patch only applies to the littlebird

[limpid flame]

LB should not be an anti-BH vehicle anyways, that is game balance fault, but it should not get nerfed in a way that affects both it's way to deal with infantry AND BH

[opaque lily]

spread and rate of fire is secondary

[limpid flame]

Windshield patch never made it thru

It was working for couple hours

Now it doesnt work again

[limpid flame]

Cause a transport should not be able to instagib other people

Rather repel

And cause severe damage

Be a threat but not a raidboss vehicle

[opaque lily]

It's not anti transport, it will scarecely ever actually destroy one from full health only kill the occupants

[limpid flame]

It's good that way

Tightening spread will make it more viable, you dont need damage buffs for it

Gives it fair way to deal with LBs, gives it more potential to kill targets, And makes it even

[opaque lily]

My god mate. You can't even say that when it takes 6+ to kill. Spread means litterally nothing. It's BTK

need to be the same damage as the littlebird's miniguns

[limpid flame]

How does it not mean shit if spread affects both the chance to hit the bullet, the effective range you can use it on, the ease of use, And actually by that also affects your TTK

Cause it's easier to hit more bullets in the SAME FIRERATE as LB

[opaque lily]

When the littlebird can kill the piloit instantly in 3 shots and the transport cannot because of it's low damage, accuracy and spread mean nothing.

[limpid flame]

But it is a transport

[opaque lily]

Same miniguns

[limpid flame]

It can simply not be a flying fortress of having 2 gunners that would be able to instakill targets, with good squad having 2 engineers to fix it, And having fuckton of seats for backcapping, maybe even having people dropping with RPGs

BF2042 issue with it's transport helis

They became unstoppable fortresses in the sky

You cannot buff the damage simply

But making the ease of use for the guns is a simple change that will be better for everyone

Possible also give BH some more power in gaining height

That would be already perfect

[opaque lily]

Yuck, your just avoiding anything to do with it's damage.

[limpid flame]

Omg ofc xd

[desert cove]

Chance of meetign guy at 10 hp are high tbh. But game doesn't tell you dmg if vehicles for shit.

So LB minigun can very well deal 15 dmg

Or 20

It may be or may be not affected by armour

[limpid flame]

Yup, thats why I dont wanna talk about something that i dont know any real data behind

[desert cove]

And there are two of them

So are they dealing 50%, dmg each? Is one minigun only visual effect?

[limpid flame]

Exactly

Until confirmed, it May very well be 1 single minigun actually shooting

And 2nd for visual

[opaque lily]

The left minigun and the littlebird kills in 3 shots, the right minigun on the littlebird kills in 3 shots

The left minigun and the transport kills in 6 shots, the right minigun on the transport kills in 6 shots

[limpid flame]

Do you simply not understand the balance choice between a designated fighting vehicle And a transport?

Lets make everyone have high damage

Fun game

[opaque lily]

Furthermore there is a significant range drop off the the transport helicopter's miniguns.

[limpid flame]

Lets make humvees 2 shot targets

[opaque lily]

They already do. The 50 cal humvee kills in 2 shots

[limpid flame]

IM Talking about 7m

Nobody uses browning shit

Too easy to die in

Besides even if they do high damage, that is offset by them being ground vehicles And how squishy they can be from infantry

Where as BH can take a ton of damage

Even AP tank shells

:))

which makes absolutely no sense

[desert cove]

Three of them

[opaque lily]

No

[desert cove]

Same as APC

[opaque lily]

only 1 and the second one will kill, however you can repair inbetween and you will survive the second 1

[limpid flame]

I guess we're playing two different games

[opaque lily]

AP shells from a tank take away half the health of the heli

HE shells do nothing

[limpid flame]

Why would it take more than 1 in the first place

Its a 120mm shell

It would make a smol dent ofc

[limpid flame]

That is IF the second shell hits

You May aswell already be gone And repairing

[desert cove]

No, one shell deals 47 dmg. So it requires 3 to kill, unless heli took some dmg earlier

[opaque lily]

They do fairly often. Lately on Sandysunset the camping safezone tanks will be sniping at me constantly

[limpid flame]

I stand my opinion, BH should not be a lethal tool, it's a transport And should be able to fight back but not be a menacing threat in the sky,

[opaque lily]

Not true from my raw ingame experience. The second AP shell will always kill if there is no repairs inbetween

[desert cove]

Your math aint mathin then

It's 47, you can try yourself

Was 70 before HP buff

[opaque lily]

My understanding is that the hit marker numbers don't even refer to damage

AP shells on an enemy tank is like 22 or something

[desert cove]

10/20/40 for front/side/rear

Out of 100

Works 100% of the time

For HEAT to

10/5/3 shots required to kill a tank respectively

[opaque lily]

You say that, okay, yet when I shoot at an enemy tank's front armor it says 22 damage not 10 or 20 or 40. Thus, the hitmarker numbers are not accurate. The Transport helicopter will die on the second AP shot always.

[desert cove]

This must be a bug then

Like, literally

And BH takes 3 AP shots

I am sure

It also takes dmg from everything else, so theres that to take into account

[opaque lily]

it does not. My literaly raw ingame experience in the transport helicopter shows that the helicopter will die from the second AP shot unless repaired inbetween.

[desert cove]

And my literally raw experience is shooting at BH 3 times with AP to destroy while gaining only one kill. So there was no one repairing it

[opaque lily]

Was any of those shells HE? Is this the only helicopter kill you've gotten in the tank? Because chances are I've died more to tanks than helicopters you've killed.

[clever vessel]

What’s this clown ass shit of ‘oh i got more experience than you’ man you keep saying that to everybody like you’re the patriarch of bbr

[desert cove]

Nah, I am not stupid enough to try hit a BH with a fucking HE, which can't even hit a static target due to isn't non existant velocity, and drop off higher than BBR gross income

[opaque lily]

Would you trust number in a thread or gameplay you have experinced yourself?

[desert cove]

At least he joined during playtests. Not last month

[clever vessel]

Heh

[clever vessel]

Yeah and why is everyone else’s gameplay just a ‘number in a thread’

[desert cove]

Oh right

[opaque lily]

He's quoting litterally hitmarker numbers lol. 47 damage smh

[desert cove]

At least I have never seen a bad take from you. Only good ones

Unlike most

[opaque lily]

cringe

[wide relic]

I think it’s good the way it is a hit from a 25mm would shred anything mechanical for air if it’s a direct hit

[desert cove]

It is realistic yes, and one shot would be good for hardcore, but for arcade it doesn't really fit

Any kind of one shoting is bad imo, and majority will probably agree

[torpid elk]

maybe if getting shot down and losing aircraft wasnt such a big deal

it all goes back to the spawn timers

[cedar ember]

I have started to do burst with the BH minigun, it does make A HUGE difference.

[desert cove]

Especially whit such high price like 4-6 minutes

[torpid elk]

yea, like your first 5 shots or so are actually heading where you aim

[clever vessel]

Shit i gotta try that out then

Been prioritizing keeping the gun spooled over accuracy

[cedar ember]

I think the first 3 seconds should be pin point accurate

[opaque lily]

Remember, they delay between bursts is more important than the actual burst themseleves. With this you can get 50+ kills a game with a good chopper pilot (sharing kills with the other gunner)

[clever vessel]

Wait as in you gotta pay attention to the amount of time between bursts?

[opaque lily]

Yes. The gun has to reset to being cool for the bursts to be accurate every time.

[rancid hound]

i noticed this too

[cedar ember]

Still needs a little tweaking, but imo, buff the guns a little, fix the rotor bs and I'm pretty happy with the current state of the bh

Though it would be nice if the pilot would end the game with more than 0 kills lol

I have tried to run people over in the heli, doesn't work

[opaque lily]

You forgot the window snipes against the pilot. He needs protection too.

[graceful void]

didn't they already buff the windows?

[desert cove]

It would require devs caring about this side of the game, which they are not, as you can see from thier actions to this point

All they do are nerfs

[opaque lily]

The game immediatly after that patch I was sniped by both the m200 and the starter sniper rifle from the pilot seat. It didn't do anything.

[cedar ember]

they did, it helped, but it is still a huge issue. I get sniped out all the time, even in full motion

[graceful void]

oh rip

guess it wasn't buffed enough

[rancid hound]

no

it's a transport heli not a fucking gunship

though might be OK if undo the BH health buff

[desert cove]

I know man but lets face reality

One shots are bad

And tail rotoring is extremely easy

It needs to be harder to achive

[rancid hound]

for APC only

[desert cove]

Yes, that's up to 6 vehicles on some maps

And any competent player can do that to every big heli he sees

[rancid hound]

so what's the justification for buffing helis? because 6 players can do it?

sounds like the LB situation

[desert cove]

No, the justification is ,that it is too easy to do, and very hard to prevent

It makes gameplay worse

So buffing it a little, 1-2 shots more, will solve this problem

[rancid hound]

helis don't need any more health

[rancid hound]

"too easy to do" yeah my man if the pilots are stupid enough to fly near vehicles then they deserve it

if they add advanced ammo for APCs then yeah make tail rotors be able to sustain 2-3 shots of HE, 1 shot for AP

otherwise there's no point bringing down a heli

[desert cove]

There is no point in shooting at its main body, when easily exploitable weakness exists

[torpid elk]

Personally, my issue is helis are practically immortal unless you tail rotor them. Thats why i dont like it. They exist simultaniously in the catagories of "freakishly durable" and "stupidly fragile" which just feels like shit

[cedar ember]

Little birds can also take it out pretty easily

[opaque lily]

I fly it like a gunship. Or as of late more like a missle boat. Just killed 4 APCs, 3 tanks, 4 attackboats on Basra. Enemy transports and littlebirds also though they are barely worth keeping a mental track of

[opaque lily]

You can fly forward and face them down and they will only hit the front of the heli, rarely the tail rotor. Also they only have 30 degrees of elevation so often you can fly above and kill them or fly above and dive out.

[opaque lily]

I've been wanting a health reduction forever because by the time I've got them smoking they are already dropping their people on the rope. Their health is stupidly high it's immersion breaking.

[shut crescent]

you can 1 shot a helli and kill everybody on it with 1 tandem or 1 tank shell(tail rotor), if its stationary to drop people off the rope its not hard to hit those shots. it should not be EASY to take down a black hawk with SMALL ARMS.

[opaque lily]

As of right now it's too easy to beam the pilot with small arms and sniper fire. Even got sniped out by a kriss Vector one time.

[vivid fog]

before or after the heli buff?

before the heli window buff, id occassionally kill the pilot fairly easily, sniping them out was also not a problem

[rancid hound]

man it's not like you can "tail rotor" them easily, that's why I said it's ok if you combine with with the old health of BH (aka undo the health buff)

[desert cove]

Yeah, lowering HP is a saund thing to do, but tail rotor buff is a must have, even without hp nerf

[opaque lily]

There was no buff. The windows remain unchanged and I am constantly sniped every game.

[vivid fog]

either ur not flying hard enough or ur dealing with cracked snipers

[opaque lily]

Bruh

[vivid fog]

to be honest, i find that its more annoying to get people to shoot an LB with small arms

almost no one does it

[desert cove]

It seems like it

[rancid hound]

yes they do, windows reduce damage

[desert cove]

A lot of pilots says otherwise

[vivid fog]

has there been any number calculations to prove whether or not that the buff is applied to heli windows?

[clever vessel]

the issue is no one can calculate no numbers not just because we don't have good testing, but the people shooting down heli pilots aren't often taking down notes on their one shots

if it's reducing the damage, it certainly ain't reducing enough damage to turn a one shot into a more than one shot

[wide relic]

Guess I’m not the majority I just don’t think it should ever be stronger than tank. I just hate things that just cause it’s easy they gota change it for the crybaby’s. Not like u shoot it off one shot wit a smg

[cedar ember]

I hardly notice the buff, I still get sniped out in one hit every so often by the higher tier snipers.

[cedar ember]

Straight up, old health of BH, they won't be used aymore..
You realize with the old BH health they were about as reliable as APCs on getting troops to the front line.

It was common to die within the first 40 seconds - and you would be blown up the second you crossed into enemy territory.

As it stands if you want to us the BH as a proper suppot, AKA flying low enough for the miniguns, I can do about two strafes before needing to o back to repair with 15-20% health

Usually each strafe nets 0-4 kills

Also, the BH is officially listed as a "medium lift" heli. That means it is multi roll, air assault, medevac, csar, command and control, vip, transport

[rancid hound]

uh it's a heli, not a tank man

its survivability is based on speed, and the fact that it's in the air

not health

its health being depleted by smg ammo is funny, definitely needed rework on that one

cuz helis can eat small arms

well either nerf heli's health or buff vehicles' damage against helis, that's it

end of discussion

[opaque lily]

They do litterally nothing lmao I still get 1 shot sniped as with every other pilot who has ever flowen a helicopter in battlebit

[desert cove]

No sniper does enough damage to one shot kill in the head through 50% dmg reduction

Even M200 with ranger

[limpid flame]

The buff does not work anymore.

You get oneshot anyways

[heady whale]

I have heard that the glass doesn't work, but has that been tested?

[limpid flame]

Not tested in a controlled environment but I can assure you, as a pilot AND as a sniper who likes to fuck with other pilots, any sniper , even if SSG69(good luck sniping heli with that lol) will oneshot the pilot

On some occasions the body shot will be enough cause the pilot took a Little bit of damage from ground fire, which even more so confirms my theory

If it worked i should be having to two shot the pilot in any case, whether thru headshot first shot or both body shots

But it 99% is a kill

[shut crescent]

a heli with a stupid as hell flight model and one thats competing against tanks and snipers that have much less of an issue shooting at them than IRL.

[rancid hound]

well that adds another stupid point to the game, helis just eat AP and HE without dealing damage to the inside

funny as fuck

[wide relic]

Also depends where u hit pilot to

[obtuse robin]

Vehicle suggestion:
ATTACK HELICOPTER aka LB HUNTER
2 seats, 1 for the pilot and a second for repairing engineer.
4 miniguns from LB
2 air-air missiles (reloaded at spawn zone)
4 rpg HEAT missiles (reloaded at spawn zone)
Speed of blackhawk
HP: dies after 2 heat, 1 tandem, 1 air-air missile, or 200 m249 bullets
Spawn takes 2x longer than a tank

[rancid hound]

let me fix it real quick:
2 seats, 1 for pilot, 1 for gunner
1 autocannon (can use the same from APCs)

[obtuse robin]

naaaah you ruined all the fun!

[rancid hound]

8 ATGMs (2 tank kill max)

2 air to air missiles

speed: blackhawk
health: old BH health

spawn: 1 every 10 minute

well might add rockets too but who knows what it will do

[obtuse robin]

i think air-air missiles should be fast, but not very maneurable, like, basically a tandem that can slightly change its flight angle and with a 3x speed

[rancid hound]

air to air missile that disable or kill crew but not the whole heli on 100% health

if hits cockpit, kill crew.
if hits rotor, down

I wonder why is this isn't the way for other vehicles, it's weird a humvee could just tank an HE shell and people leaving it like nothing has ever happened

even if it hits the inside of the vehicle

[cedar ember]

I too am 100% certain this buff was either reverted, or is broken currently. I have gotten one shot at least 6 times in the past week.

[cedar ember]

Sure, I will take that. But current game state with bullet velocities and the speed of the heli, it just doesn't work. The BH is SO EASY to hit with LMG fire or SMGs. And Snipers. Like... its trvial how easy it is.

If only RPGs, tank shells and APCs could damage the heli, sure make it less tanky. But it would also make it unable to fly low to the ground since a single HEAT would kill you. making the heli a glorified and slower version of the actual transport heli (the ones without the miniguns)

[wide relic]

I mean rl pilots do it all the time .

[rancid hound]

SMGs shouldnt do damage to vehicles at all

it's too multirole

[wide relic]

Oo completely agree

Only time I think it should be effective if heli is right on u distance wise

[rancid hound]

rifles doing damage to vehicles are ok, that's fine

SMGs are fucked up

[limpid flame]

ANY FIREARM OTHER THAN HIGH CALIBER SHIT SHOULD NOT BE DOING DAMAGE TO HELIS

it's absurd

[wide relic]

True

They really don’t address the different calibers at all

[coral citrus]

Humvees are already trash lol why would you want to make them worse

With such a change the very least thing to do would be making the crew not die when it's destroyed since the humvee itself is indeed tanking the shot

[wide relic]

Because there trash in rl

[coral citrus]

Good thing we're not irl innit

Unless you want to go full milsim and make SMGs do zero damaged to exo armor and so on

I'd be onboard with that

[wide relic]

Yep video games are a lot more forgiving

I’ll adapt to whatever in game doesn’t bother me. Just wish u could practice flyin in the range

[desert cove]

Wok sometimes works in mysterious ways

I think he yearns for hardcore

[rancid hound]

let me guess this straight, you want infantry to do well with vehicles, but not vehicles toward vehicles?

[rancid hound]

I yearn for not having to destroy the vehicles just to kill the insiders

especially when infantry can do, why can't vehicles

[desert cove]

You can, with coax

Tho why not just destroying vehicle? It gives you more XP, and is easier

[torpid elk]

@rancid hound anyways, to continue over here, one solution i had to help vehicles play further forwards was to have some sort of cargo truck that could provide a mobile resuply for both troops and vehicles

[rancid hound]

A logistics humvee would be a really fun job

Would still mean tanks and APCs need a faster respawn imo

[torpid elk]

Yea, i would totally love a reason to drive back and forth from base so others dont have to

[rancid hound]

If the anti-vehicle capabilities of all classes aren't going to change, which I don't mind either way, armored vehicles need some sort of technical buff like faster spawns or there being more of them

APCs need a health buff imo, getting one-shot by tandems in the rear sucks

[torpid elk]

It would also help with phasing out or at least nerfing squad spawning which is why i am in favor of it. If you had a vehicle you could expect to drive back and forth from base to the front and back again then you would be able to expect fast transport to the front if you spawn at base

[rancid hound]

Heck, APCs could at least have crew served firing port weapons for a couple seats in the back to guard from enemy engies

[cedar ember]

At this point the APC can't be used as an APC. I'm starting to see more and more of them just sit in spawn, not worth it.

[rancid hound]

They're really more just IFVs, a dedicated heavy armor transport would be nice

Nobody rides in the APCs

[cedar ember]

As in, people aren't using them anymore

[rancid hound]

I use them because I'm not a feeder, but yeah

[wide relic]

An fix the spinning like a top in apc when you get hit by rpg

[rancid hound]

Average player doesn't ride in or drive them anymore

[rancid hound]

YES PLEASE

I hate the physics of vehicles, they feel like paper

[wide relic]

I still do when I can

[cedar ember]

100%. I can use them, but i still eventually die to a one hit tandom in the back

[wide relic]

I haven’t gotten rocketed in the back it’s usually by multiple rpgs an c4

[rancid hound]

I'm fine with IFVs not being super strong armor-wise, because they get vaporized by stuff like RPGs all the time irl, but they could at least buff them in some technical or DPS aspect to make up for it (namely main gun accuracy)

[cedar ember]

When an infantry can kill an APC faster than the APC can kill the infantry if they both fired at the same time...

[rancid hound]

Infantry surviving 30mm to the skull epic style

[torpid elk]

I liked the idea of greatly increasing the durability of vehicles but making explosives able to disable them until repaired, sort of like a minor version of getting tail rotored.

so we could make tanks more durable but also able to counter then by doing things like disabling their tracks or the turret.

you wont get one-shot by some dude tossing 7 c4 onto you from the top floor of a building but he can still contribute with the rest of his team being able to follow up from your turret or tracks or what-have-you being taken out

[rancid hound]

BF4 did this with mobility kills and vehicle fires, it was a really neat mechanic

Heck, maybe even some vehicle customization like BF4 had would be good

[cedar ember]

Actually the one the game's APC is based on isn't affected by RPG-7

[rancid hound]

This is true

When's Oki gonna add the T-72 terminator

For such massive player counts, vehicles just aren't around that much and there's little variety

[cedar ember]

If I understand it right, the angles of the front armor essentially deflect the explosion.

[rancid hound]

Armor goblins like me feel underserved

[rancid hound]

Yeah, the tanks in the game actually have armor modeled correctly by taking less damage to front hits

APCs don't tho

Somewhat annoying

[cedar ember]

Imo APC should take close to 0 damage from fontal attacks

[rancid hound]

Ehhh, I think taking like 10-20 damage to front hits would be fine for game balance

Tanks basically wouldn't feel an RPG to the front

[cedar ember]

I would be fine with that

[rancid hound]

But, being battlebit, I'm more concerned with game balance than realism, or at least a balance that is somewhat aware of translating real mechanics

[wide relic]

Kinda want to redownload bfv now

[torpid elk]

One idea i had was to take a lesson from planetside 2 (like pretty much all of my suggestions) and make it so vehicles can be purchased on demand at the cost of a resource. Squad points can serve this role well (assuming they get rebalanced to avoid the current problems with that system, but im not going to go too into it here).

if we could purchase a tank at the expense of squad points instead of waiting like 5 minutes for a respawn then i could see a lot of players being more willing to play more aggresively

[rancid hound]

YES

[cedar ember]

Ii think the front being pretty good against RPGs would go a long way making vehicles able to push with infantry

[rancid hound]

Squad points usually sit around unused

I feel like I'm the only one who utilizes them when I play solo

[torpid elk]

They really feel superfluous

[cedar ember]

Make it so purchased vehicles are airdropped. Then you have to defend it if you do it behind or near enemy lines

[rancid hound]

If I'm not in a vehicle, I'm playing minecraft and building obnoxious barriers and FOBs in chokepoints

[torpid elk]

I build walls blocking off waki bridge 😏

[rancid hound]

Same

Or I'll be in a tank firing from across the ravine into the bridge where people are piling up

[golden estuary]

Build walls parallel to the bridge so you got easier time splashing the rounds.

[rancid hound]

There's a good few spots where you can hit the hescoes and get 5-10 kills at a time

[golden estuary]

Yeah but if you set up them walls. It's every spot is a good spot 😂

[rancid hound]

This is true.....

Pre-gaming my 50 killstreaks

[earnest ocean]

on the release of EA, there was pic of the RCB90(already added) and some truck that can act as a large squad transporter or logistical truck.

[magic ingot]

Get blown up

[earnest ocean]

would be funny if the logi truck full of rockets, and other bullets and grenades, that you could set them off with just one explosion

[last axle]

Imma use that shit like a vbied

[cedar ember]

I would love it that truck acted as a forward repair station

But it would be to be hella tanky ot it would just get popped in .5 seconds.

SUPER high health, no guns, can be taken and controlled by either team

[earnest ocean]

they might stop us, but not allah

[desert cove]

Faster respawn is a bandaid and a consolation prize, having vehicles worth thier timers is much better option

Cutting down respawn would mean more vehicles presence overall, and less punishment for doing bad. Which idk if its a good idea

[torpid elk]

I think less punishment is at least somewhat necessary if only to encourage more aggressive and riskier play. The current respawn timers are fucking awful imo

[desert cove]

I see your point, but imo its possible to incentivise more agresaive gameplay by making vehicles stronger, and more forgiving

[rancid hound]

because you don't always equip AP, and plus there're bigger exposed targets like helis

which you can't kill the inside still

[clever vessel]

doesn't decreasing the respawn timer also do that?

[rancid hound]

Transport helos being as durable as tanks (besides the tail rotor weakness) is incredibly silly to me

Like why

At least they can be damaged by small arms, but the health pool is huge

[clever vessel]

real

[rancid hound]

We have GOT to get Oki to do something about this

It's why I'm so on board with MANPADs

[desert cove]

Decreasing spanw time makes it so it's harder to justify need for buffs

[rancid hound]

Although I can see those being a problem in 127vs

[desert cove]

Manpads will hurt every halicopter more than Armed LB

Especially BH

[rancid hound]

It'd entirely depend on how vehicles get reworked with spawn timers

[desert cove]

In an unfair way

[desert cove]

Don't hope for that

[rancid hound]

It also depends on how they function in game as it is

Giving helos flares would balance things out

Not saying it's a 100% should be in thing, but it's a solution I'm not gonna shout down

The blackhawk and kamov are just insanely durable

[desert cove]

Then you need to give flares to LB too

[rancid hound]

Yeah absolutely

[desert cove]

Which means LB doesn't really changes

[rancid hound]

The littlebird should be hard to hit

[desert cove]

Top 1% wont stop being good, nor will be rained in

[rancid hound]

I don't even like using it

[torpid elk]

manpads are problematic imo. just look at ukraine. russian helicopters are being used mostly as stand-off weapons platforms from within russian controlled territory because manpads are everywhere. it will just turn helicopters into having the same playstyle as tanks and apcs

if you want to make a milsim, bbr is actually really close to being there

[desert cove]

You don't nees to make such comparisons

Just look at tandem

[rancid hound]

Nah it's a good point

[desert cove]

Manpads will be the same but worse

[golden estuary]

You can limit how op the 1% are. Less accurate guns, more drop off, heavier heli handling so pilots can't pull off UFO upside down barrel rolling long range LB.

[desert cove]

I didn't said otherwise

[rancid hound]

Although it's silly seeing the transport helos gunning at each other for three minutes before showing any visible damage

[golden estuary]

Which I don't see anyone but the 1% do.

[desert cove]

Then 99% also gets nerf while they still struggle with learning

Making the process harder discentivies going through it

[golden estuary]

Yeah but the nerf doesn't impact them as much.

[desert cove]

Idk if we do want that

[golden estuary]

It's not like they gonna be shooting people from 300m

Or that they gonna be doing any wild flying

[rancid hound]

The miniguns could use a buff

They suck

[golden estuary]

If anything the decreased accuracy would help them hit more often 😂

[rancid hound]

Like hitting a guy 10 times with a 7.62 minigun is nuts

They're already inaccurate enough

[opaque lily]

For goodness sake. Stop quoting stupid numbers you've seen and fly the damn thing for yourself.

[golden estuary]

Yeah but you also eat how many RPG and tank rounds

[rancid hound]

Health nerf with DPS buff is a good balance imo

Much like an actual helo with miniguns

[golden estuary]

Nah. The point is the devs want it to stay in its role as a transport.

Mfw transport LB makes for a whack attack helo

[rancid hound]

I don't know of many transports that can somehow tank an AP shell

That shit crumples

Plus, other games have done fine with relatively squishy aircraft in the role of transports

[golden estuary]

For balancing purpose I guess. Since there's 127 enemies in a really not so big map.

[desert cove]

What do you mean?

[torpid elk]

take the guns away then imo

[golden estuary]

M200 with ranger is 77 damage, 1.9 hs multiplier is what, 146?

[desert cove]

Didn't I agreed with you?

And numbers are available to everyone, if you can't
do simple math then that's on you

[rancid hound]

Nah they should stay

I think the transport helo problem is gonna require several angles of vehicle balance to be tackled at the same time

Namely; Spawn time, damage models, and vehicle speed

[desert cove]

Divided by two barely 73, def not osk hs

[golden estuary]

Yeah

[rancid hound]

Well, it does leave you vulnerable for the inevitable next shot that hits you from some random angle

[opaque lily]

Absolutely. They are beyond atrocious in it's current state. The damage is so low that even a medic can outheal the damage of the miniguns and if that wasn't bad enough, their medic helmet can add 2 more blue hitmarkers onto what is already a 6+ shot kill.

[rancid hound]

You're already a bullet magnet

[golden estuary]

I mean that's what it's meant to do no?

Instead of sending you to jesus with the first hit

[desert cove]

True, but not one shot, and there is also helmt to take into account

[rancid hound]

Oh I misunderstood you, sorry

I agree

[rancid hound]

Helmet (RNG)

I kid, but armor functionality feels very spotty as a whole

[desert cove]

50% of times, works all the time

[rancid hound]

That's a different discussion

[desert cove]

Yeah, true

Aim for limbs

[rancid hound]

The hitboxes are just sometimes not there

But only for you

Timmy Gluegobbler over there gets five hits on his medium armor helmet

[opaque lily]

You will still get sniped out with any sniper rifle in the game, 1 shot. Beamed out with anything else. There is no 50% damage reducition and even if there was it still was/is not enough to protect you from getting 1 shot.

Multiple people in this thread are quoting numbers when actual gameplay reflects otherwise

[torpid elk]

idk man, i have played and i really feel the increased surviability

[desert cove]

Yeah, I have said that

[torpid elk]

its not necessarily enough, but i have noticed it

[past widget]

does anyone have video proof of getting 1hko'd out of a helicopter?

[golden estuary]

That isn't RPG? 😂

[rancid hound]

It's happened to me

[desert cove]

I literally said that it doesn't work because there is no weapon to one shot through 50% dmg reduction.

So it must be broken

Learn to read man

[golden estuary]

I've had insta deaths happen but that's cuz servers potato. It's like all the damage catches up at the same time.

[rancid hound]

Welcome to battlebit

[opaque lily]

Bro, we don't need proof. Just go ingame and fly for about 2 minutes.

[rancid hound]

There's definitely some damage lag

[torpid elk]

that is something i have felt. sometimes i get shot and the game shits itself and skips a dozen of frames to then show me just lying on the floor

[rancid hound]

Or it just doesn't tell you sometimes when you've been hit

[torpid elk]

i only know i got shot because the game froze

[rancid hound]

"Mr. Oki, are you SURE this game is meant to run on potato computers?"

[torpid elk]

its like "oh shit, my game froze. i probably just got shot at and died" and then like half a second later im on the ground dead

[past widget]

well, if you guys don't have video evidence of this happening, I don't know what you expect the dev to do about it. It's your word vs what the code says

[rancid hound]

I'm gonna be honest, tons of people have consistently talked about this happening

It's more than just speculation

There's something broken along the lines, even if the windshield code works perfectly in isolation

[past widget]

Tons of people say tons of things. Evidence is king

[torpid elk]

we dont need a peer reviewed study when a bunch of people are saying "hey, something fucky wucky is going on. it is supposed to work this way but i have experienced this other way happening"

you get enough people saying that and it is almost certain there is a wierd bug somewhere or maybe even just a misunderstanding from the players due to the system working in some non-obvious way (such as the belief that the control stat doesnt do anything)

if its a bug, it should be fixed. if it is a misunderstanding, it should be clarified

[rancid hound]

For all I know, Oki is testing on a super stable client-side test server that isn't dealing with all the simultaneous functions that a pub server has to

[torpid elk]

are we sure window hitboxes are accurate and dont have any gaps in it?

[rancid hound]

Code might work fine in a sterile test environment, but code breaks under stress all the time

[torpid elk]

hell, maybe ping causes bullets to skip through the window hitbox

[rancid hound]

Exactly

[torpid elk]

other games have had bugs like that

[rancid hound]

Hitboxes being linked to ping and framerate cause issues like this frequently

There's been times where I magdumped a guy, got zero hits, but then get a kill credit after he's gone around the corner

[torpid elk]

it could even be due to the velocity of the helicopter. maybe a helicopter moving towards a player has a chance for the bullet to skip past where the window is

[rancid hound]

Wouldn't be shocked if something similar happens to a giant pile of connected and moving hitboxes

[rancid hound]

There's absolutely times where you'll get hit or proc a bleed and see no hits on the windshield

No hit noises either

But you can see the guy shooting at you directly ahead

[torpid elk]

yea, clearly there is something funky going on

[rancid hound]

I think tanks and APCs have a similar issue

Been taken down to burning status with no noise or impact, but the damage direction indicator shows up

[golden estuary]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/173021452738494464/1144629240042631219/Untitled2.mp4

[rancid hound]

Only from one hit as well

Not even a tandem

[rancid hound]

I feel such immense gamer rage and sorrow

[past widget]

This is not a video of getting one-shot out of a helicopter

[rancid hound]

It's showing how hitboxes just vanish

[golden estuary]

i thought we were talking about how shit hit reg can be lol

oh lmao i posted wrong vid, that's shitty hit reg, but what i want to show is "damage being applied all at the same time"

edited*

[torpid elk]

if there is shit hit reg in one area, why cant we make the assumption that there is shit hit reg with helis too?

[rancid hound]

Anyone who plays helis frequently has dealt with this

Like maybe sometimes you get a freak shot through the open side door, but that's somehow less frequent than the windshield just not reducing damage at all

[golden estuary]

Yeah, either windshield fuckery, or hitbox fuckery 😂

[thorny mason]

yeah i'm almost positive there's literally no bullet collision anywhere on the helis

get shot from underneath and somehow pilot sniped

shot all the way through tail into cockpit, pilot sniped

[torpid elk]

i had a really freak headshot once through a persons groin while they were prone. hit reg is really fucking bizzare at times

[thorny mason]

feels like i'm flying a snoopy-esque cardboard cutout of a heli

[rancid hound]

That might honestly be it

I've been shot through the bottom as well

[golden estuary]

you just shot a dickhead, working as intended /s

[rancid hound]

Hitboxes not loading in (intended feature)

[thorny mason]

i mean it's like the helis have a hurtbox but absolutely no collision detection with bullets, it's like they damage it and keep passing right through

[rancid hound]

Here's my 100000 page argument for why this also means lean spamming is intended and the devs shouldn't remove it

[golden estuary]

legs and other bodyparts sticking through walls still an issue, even if you can't directly shoot em

[rancid hound]

I don't know if that's very fixable tbh

It's annoying, but yeah

I've gotten a lot of very undeserved multikills from firing an RPG into a wall where I saw some tasty little toesies sticking through

[golden estuary]

idk, maybe have it push you further out if your legs/ass collide with the wall

[desert cove]

This is because RPG'S deal dmg to vehicles with thier splash dmg. The same area that affects infantry affects also vehicles

That's why you don't hear sound que

But take dmg

[rancid hound]

Very annoying, but explains a lot

[desert cove]

Gamebreaking feature

[rancid hound]

Basically getting full damage from a near-miss

[desert cove]

Not a bug

Works as intended

[golden estuary]

yeah but it should've shown you the direction of the damage dealer, not the damage source 😂 if it was working properly

[rancid hound]

Maybe Oki should bring me on the dev team so I can make this game as autistic as possible with impact angles reducing or increasing damage

[desert cove]

6 meters for both, Heat and Tandem, basically, vehicles hitbox is bigger by 6m in every direction

[desert cove]

That's not bad idea. BF does that

[rancid hound]

Actually I'm somewhat annoyed that top-attacking a tank or APC doesn't do more damage

It should

[desert cove]

What else? Javelins? For everyone?

[rancid hound]

Yes, actually!

[golden estuary]

yeah but it'll be "transport LB OP"

[rancid hound]

And stationary TOW missiles