Vehicle - Feedback

[tame tangle]

Vehicles absolutely need a 3rd person mode like Battlefield and CoD utilize. I understand some objections such as "they will become harder to kill" but that isn't the case in other games so why should it be any different in this one? I say this as someone that doesn't even utilize vehicles much but found the first person view incredibly restrictive and not fun.

In addition, vehicle physics need a complete overhaul, the collision physics isn't there, the driving physics feel super clunky, the vehicles often stall when you hit a small bump or climb a small hill. Lots of work needs to be done in this area.

[fair briar]

5 kills per mag? wut

bruh i barely get 3 kills per mag on APC

probs skill issue on my part

[desert cove]

Yeah, this shit is harder to learn and use than a tank while being much less efficient and less forgiving to play

[clever vessel]

dw about it my average is also 3

sometimes you can score 5 by the virtue of the corners where people just pack into big groups

[fair briar]

not worried, im saying id be impressed at anyone who consistently gets 5 kills per mag on apc

as ive stated before, i think apc's main gun has sufficient firepower

[clever vessel]

agreed

although i'm in the camp that maybe its mag size needs a bit of an upgrade, maybe 25

[fair briar]

id buff APC as follows:

• secondary gunner seat like with tank
• global spawn point that any team member can spawn in, regardless of squad

and ofc adjusting the physics and giving stabilizer to all secondary gunners

[desert cove]

Imo APC needs rework

[golden estuary]

Defs. It's all kinds of jank.

[clever vessel]

i think we can all agree it needs a rework

[golden estuary]

The ubiquitous shit health pool of vehicles, bouncy physics/lack of mass, near unusable at night.

[desert cove]

It isn't good at anything, and hard to use

[clever vessel]

except for the random guy who wanders into this thread every few hours to complain about how skill issue we are

[golden estuary]

It's only good for shooting from afar 😂 even then, it's meh, who the fuck finds fun in that

[clever vessel]

honestly there was something morbidly fun at first about hitting some random guy minding his own business at 700m

at first

[golden estuary]

😂 Yeah, but as the only option to use the apc.. It's oof

[clever vessel]

rlly do agree with these changes tho

[desert cove]

I only in half

APC doesn't need so serve as a troop transport

[clever vessel]

i've been wondering abt apc customization tbh because while i can see the kinda ones i'd put on tank and humvee i can't see the ones for apc

[desert cove]

But as a troop support, as IFV

[clever vessel]

or maybe you could pick one of the two choices

ifv with a few seats less and no spawn capabilities or apc with more seats and global spawn

[golden estuary]

Apc.. Armoured personnel carrier 😂

[clever vessel]

actually wait that's a perfect compromise since it's still serving its general niche

[fair briar]

id take it a step further to allow spawning outside right behidn the apc if its full, and ofc allowing spawing in/on APC even if its in combat

rn, APC is just a fire support vehicle

nobody spawns on them

[clever vessel]

i think that'd allow too much troop shitting, so maybe you'd have to disable its movement first

troop shitting at one point is manageable, troop shitting at a moving point is miserable

[fair briar]

i dont see how thats any better / worse than changing squads to get a better spawn location

[clever vessel]

oh i'm also for getting rid of squad spawning

o7 gbye infinite shit

[fair briar]

You do realize thats a huge indirect medic buff right?

[clever vessel]

well yeah, that's why i'd also cut the medics' ability to quick heal themselves, strip them of the entire smg/pdw class, cut their access to explosives barring mines/claymores and give them a stronger placeable heal box

[fair briar]

Nobody would use medic if they cant self heal

[clever vessel]

honestly i'd even be for cutting the current medic heal totally and just letting them bandage heal other people

[fair briar]

Im down for removing explosives from medic

[desert cove]

We call apc only becouse OKI calls them such. They are IFV'S by role and design

[fair briar]

Biggest problem with medic imo is their anti vehicle capability

Like i main engi and medic

[clever vessel]

they would if you can still do it faster with the bandages, imo; the bandages are a balancer on every class except medic atm and it's just kinda weird

[fair briar]

Id stop playing medic if i couldnt self heal

[clever vessel]

they have a box with infinite healing that also does it faster than every other class and amazing close-range options

[golden estuary]

Their hard-on for giving every class c4 is a big part in the vehicle issue

[clever vessel]

so yeah i'd just keep their high bandage count and let them heal with bandages slightly faster than other classes

[fair briar]

Medic heal is fine as is, just remove c4 from them

[clever vessel]

in my honest opinion? good. we need people doing more things than medic

[fair briar]

I play engi more than medic tbh

[clever vessel]

the self heal is just too convenient not to pick, and when it's gone, picking something else won't be picking something else over quick self heal

[fair briar]

Id say im around 25% vehicles, 45% engi, 29% medic, 1% everything else

[graceful void]

i've been maining assault

because gotta go fast

[fair briar]

RPG and self heal too good to pass up

[full hedge]

I wonder if steering wheel support and force feedback could be a potential future update? It would be fun to drive with that.

[rancid hound]

you're not gonna use steering wheel and mouse at the same time to play tanks and APCs well

beside there're better driving simulators than this game

[clever vessel]

I am for the technoblade challenge for battlebit

100 kills with a steering wheel go

[rancid hound]

don't tell me they nerf Abrams speed to match T90's standard

[desert cove]

Sep 2 and 3 are 70t+

Heavy bastards

Same engine

[rancid hound]

yet they move faster than T90

also ingame Abrams is M1A1

which is lighter lmfao

if there's anything T90 should move as fast as Abrams not Abrams should move as slow as T90

the reverse speed is horrible

[clever vessel]

Real talk: I'm p sure they just decided on a speed and made two diff skins to match

[rancid hound]

true lmao

[fair briar]

M1 abrams in game is annoying to use compared to t90

[neat plinth]

I feel like helicopters especially the little birds should be able to cyclic climb in this game, it sucks trying to use your forward momentum to do a vertical climb and all you do is go backwards toward the ground, all movement is canceled it feels like

[rancid hound]

yup, it's bigger but same stats

[fair briar]

M1 abrams has stuff on its turret that blocks its view sometimes

Tbh just make both teams use t90

[rancid hound]

farming children on wakistan be like

[desert cove]

Before anyone jumps the gun

It is a map issue

[neat plinth]

How so

[desert cove]

A lot of people crumped in small space, perfect for throwing grenades

Tank have 14 of them, and can aim them

[clever vessel]

also no real other options up to the poit

you can go up via the low ground dirt route but you're not merely extremely exposed to sniper fire but it takes much longer and isn't directly connected to any objs or roads

[rancid hound]

always have been

[cedar ember]

If helis had some anti armor abilities, it would really really discourage tanks from sitting in fields motionless.

Though I do already hunt tanks in a heli, I load up with engis and RPGs. Very effective

[rancid hound]

its so funny when a littlebird dives at me when im in a tank as if its going to do anything

[rancid hound]

add mpat shell, air burst that can disable helis will fix

though yeah it will complicate matters more

[opaque lily]

Lately in the transport helicopter I have had some competent engineers who can fire rockets against camping tanks and apcs from the side of the helicopter. I just hover above them out of their elevation and they fire their shots.
I wish you could do more damage against vehicles if you could get a top-down shot against their armor.

[rare sorrel]

enjoy being stationary and getting hit by a tandem

doing a 360 on the spot

[cedar ember]

Technically a rocket fired downward does go faster

[last axle]

nice

[rancid hound]

christ how did we get to 4000+ messages that fast on this thread

💀

[golden estuary]

Cuz vehicles are shit.

The most obviously rubbish things get the most messages. Like aim punch, vector, medic, and assault threads before

[heady jewel]

4000 messages

[hazy shoal]

Why can I destroy every single land vehicle from across the map with a drone bomb but it takes half the team focusing helicopter's or a squad having developed omniscience to predict the cartoon physics of the heli to RPG the rotor to counter them?

It makes no sense for a Blackhawk to be able to tank multiple AP rounds or HEAT rounds because you didn't target its rotor specifically. It also doesn't make sense how I can empty 2 mags into its rotor with my AUG and it just flies off like nothing happened.

It feels like unlike every other vehicle, the way to counter Heli's is praying someone bad gets on them. The capabilities of them on the upper ring of skill is just flat out oppressive.

[torpid elk]

support feedback is still trying to figure this out 😔

[torpid elk]

i keep bringing it up, yea. the issue with helis isnt actually the average player. the issue is the skill ceiling is stratospheric. it isnt like with infantry when fighting a good player with great aim i can change my strategy and maybe place claymores to force him to slow down, set up an ambush where he wouldnt expect it, or change weapons and try engaging him outside his preferred range. instead, the only counter to a good heli player is finding another good heli player willing to dogfight and hunt them.

and to everyone who says "lol, just shoot at them. lb hate when you shoot at them", every person shooting at a lb and missing 90% of their shots or more isnt shooting at the enemy team. the reason people dont shoot at lb is because everyone has learned that it is a waste of time and ammo to do so unless you have little other choice and you are better off just ignoring them and focusing on the enemies in front of you.

If im out in the middle of a field and an lb flies at me of course im going to shoot but if im in a building and am covering a chokepoint or something and have a ceiling protecting me why the fuck am i going to stop focusing on the immediate threat just to try and maybe tickle a littlebird

[hazy shoal]

Half the time I shoot at a LB or even a blackhawk I get killed by either rats pushing onto my point because my fire gives away my position or 1 of the 8 people dropping from the blackhawk. All the good pilots don't even stop to drop people off, they let people get on their rope and slam them on some solid surface while going full speed

[tulip ibex]

Wait ppl really complaining about the blackhawk? ... Its sooo easy to shot a BH down :S

[hazy shoal]

If a BH is easy for you to shoot down it's because the pilot is bad. We're not talking about that, we're talking about when good players get on them

[tulip ibex]

bro im getting 50k + exp every BH map

as a pilot..

getting shot down pretty regulary

[hazy shoal]

Don't know what to tell you man. Don't want to say skill issue but if you're getting shotdown a lot that's on your end

Neither heli ever needs to slow down to drop off troops

[tulip ibex]

Nah its is skill issue just not mine.

Im screaming for ppl to extract

and theyre just sitting in the heli

those situations gets me shot down

[hazy shoal]

Yeah, that's not what we're talking about

we're talking about when there's a coordinated squad

[tulip ibex]

BH is not an attack heli

[hazy shoal]

like 8 people on a rope constantly backcapping and the BH gets in and out in seconds

[tulip ibex]

Yeah well thats how the game should work

[hazy shoal]

nothing you can do without being incredibly lucky on RPGing the rotor

no, it shouldn't

[tulip ibex]

yes you can..?

[hazy shoal]

Oki has specifically stated his philosphy on vehicles. None should be meta i.e. oppressive

[tulip ibex]

Ppl are beaming me with p90s

from 200m

[rancid hound]

it doesn't make any sense for vehicle FCS to literally just be aim by memory

[heady jewel]

They are?

[rancid hound]

AP 47, HEAT 20

[heady jewel]

It’s just a big target for apcs to take shots at

Sadly😔

[tulip ibex]

sometimes ppl know how to battle a BH sometimes they dont

the game is not even a month old

[hazy shoal]

Helicopter's are the only vehicle in the game where the way to counter them is entirely dictated on the skill of the pilot. A recon player can destroy ANY land vehicle from an entirely different Control Point with very little counterplay other than the vehicle having a squad of infantry backing them up

[tulip ibex]

and we are getting roblox kids here

[heady jewel]

It’s two months old😔

[hazy shoal]

Helicopter's have this obscene curve where the higher end of skill is just far beyond the tools players have to reasonable handle them

[heady jewel]

Or it’s almost 2 months

[tulip ibex]

yeah 2, whatever.

yeah and air should be always superior

[hazy shoal]

Blackhawk is like the death star - it'll tank everything you throw at it unless you hit its magical weak points which is the hardest thing to hit since the heli is moving in all 3 axis' at full speed

[tulip ibex]

to every battleground

thats the point of having air superiority

now its not my fault ppl cant fly LB

thats the only thing that really can follow me

and shoot me down

without luck,

and theres ALOT of good LB pilots

[hazy shoal]

And that's not how the game is SUPPOSED to be as per the word of god: Okidoki. This is the scenario he explicitly stated he didn't want happening. He DOESN'T want littlebirds going 150-1 or tanks sitting in spawn going 150-0

[tulip ibex]

yeah but literally getting 0 kills every game

but 50k+ exp

[hazy shoal]

Because the goal of the BH isn't kills like the LB, it's backcapping 24/7

and it does that job incredibly well

[tulip ibex]

yeah thats the point of the BH?

Now

implement an apache

with rockets

then we'll see how far a BH will go

[hazy shoal]

We're never getting that. Oki hates vehicles and he clearly doesn't like what we already got.

Heli's will be getting nerfed before long - it's only a matter of time

Because Oki doesn't want to implement anti-air weapons

[tulip ibex]

Well he should... i woulndt mind having flares in my BH

Everything that makes the game more ... how to say

cant find the word

[hazy shoal]

I'm pretty sure he regrets ever implementing vehicles at this point

[tulip ibex]

without vehicles this game would be a running simulator lol

[heady jewel]

Well you can’t have a large scale shooter without vehicles 😔

[tulip ibex]

then you cant have the most played mode

conquest

without vechiles

it would be totally worthless to play

[hazy shoal]

I mean the modes literally don't matter, they all devolve into TDM and Oki has stated he only plays to shoot people, not play objectives/defense

[tulip ibex]

well he is not the whole player base lol

wtf xD

[hazy shoal]

yeah but he's the main dev so lmao

[tulip ibex]

then he can always kill his own game

with his own decisions lol

[hazy shoal]

Do we even have a feedback section for objectives

or like the reward loop of the game

[supple mauve]

I think you really should differentiate between little bird and big bird. Most people agree that little bird is OP. Big bird not really, because it is sluggish and the miniguns are weak. Backcapping being easy is more of a problem in general, because the game doesn't incentivise defending, and defenses are easily removed anyway.

[heady jewel]

Lb op?

[hazy shoal]

My fundamental issue is the discrepancy between Heli's and land vehicles

[heady jewel]

Says who

You can’t hit shit with those guns

[tulip ibex]

6 bullets

3 headshots

to kill a guy with the gunner

For what

200 exp

[hazy shoal]

Every single land vehicle can be countered easily by >1< guy. He doesn't even have to be in the same area as the vehicle. Meanwhile Heli's take an entire god damn squad or someone getting incredibly lucky with an RPG or snipe

[supple mauve]

Because you are using it wrong. Don't aim for the crosshair, aim with the bullet trail. It's instakill on every distance

[tulip ibex]

yeah i had really good gunners yesterday

just sad it doesnt reward gunners so much

like if they got like 50% of the transport exp

[hazy shoal]

LB is high skill high reward. It's OP because they can kill people while being so far out all bullets will miss due to slow velocity

The big bottleneck is that you can't consistently train since they're not in the shooting range

[supple mauve]

It's not that high skill, people are exaggerating - as you said, it's just difficult to train.

I can get dozens of kills easily nowadays, and I don't play it that often, just gotta follow the simple rules.

[hazy shoal]

It's a completely different skill set - if you've never played on a heli you're SOL in this game

but if you've had prior experience you just need to adjust to the cartoon logic LB operates on

Took me dozens of hours to wrap my head around heli driving in SQUAD

[tulip ibex]

Yeah im using a joystick for that xD

[torpid elk]

this is the fault of squad spawning. fix this (imo, remove it and make spawning on points more of a thing and give people more spawn options) and it will still be possible but a whole lot less annoying

[tulip ibex]

Yeah squad spawning in heli is a bit op (outside the BZ)

that i can agree on

but most of my pickups is in base

[hazy shoal]

I personally think the rope for both heli's needs to be nerfed

[tulip ibex]

it is

Rope decreases the speed of BH

[hazy shoal]

Heli's should put themselves more at risk by having to get lower to the floor they're dropping people on

[tulip ibex]

oh

[hazy shoal]

it's too long as is imo

[tulip ibex]

thats where i always get shoot down

[hazy shoal]

I liked the idea someone said earlier - I don't think the tail rotor should have a unique health pool and everything else is just super tanky

but when you "kill" the BH it instead spins out of control and crashes then explodes

[tulip ibex]

I dont know tbh

i think BH is balanced

[hazy shoal]

Would help prevent the situations where someone magically snipes you out of the sky while not letting the BH tanks 3 AP rounds and multiple HEAT rounds

[rancid hound]

im all for more dramatic blackhawk spinning animations

[hazy shoal]

I don't think the BH should be able to tank 3 AP rounds from a tank

or 3 HEAT rounds to the hull

I REALLY hate how tanky it is UNLESS you hit a very specific spot

[cedar ember]

i can confidently say the BH isn't remotely as powerful as you think it is. I think your experience comes from lobbies where your few people on your team decide to work together to take out the BH.

It's not supposed to be something you can easily solo.. though it often ends up that way right now.

[hazy shoal]

It's not supposed to be something you can easily solo
Says who?

Because that's not what Oki has stated when it comes to his stance on vehicles

If Oki wants Heli's to be as good as they are I'm fine with that, but land vehicles would need to be buffed to those levels too

It's the hypocrisy when it comes to the state of the air vehicles vs the land vehicles

[cedar ember]

That stance is literally what is wrong with this game right now.
They buffed the BH health pool because before when it DID get taken out by like one tandem, it was quite literally unusable. And Oki even realized this and buffed the HP in the first week.

[hazy shoal]

I don't disagree but you can literally play recon, go on an entirely completely different control point, and drone bomb any APC or Tank in 1 shot without them being able to do anything about it

[cedar ember]

A huge number of the people in this thread do want vehicles buffed. They are laughable. Like.. tank AP rounds do less damage than a tandem. And APCs are just as squishy add a humvee.

[hazy shoal]

It's entirely unfair that air vehicles are so hard to do anything about solo but any idiot can take out the strongest of land vehicles

And add insult to injury, they made APC's 1 shot from behind with a tandem in the last patch or two

I just want consistency between the two vehicle types

[rancid hound]

i hate how being aggressive with apcs actively punishes u

with no reward mostly

[cedar ember]

Everything you are saying are all things we have talked about here lol. Vehicles are in a bad state.

[hazy shoal]

Like I would love to be able to shit on people with the heli's but they're so hotly contested because they're the only vehicle that doesn't instantly die the moment they leave spawn

[cedar ember]

That should be a good indicator that helis may be the thing that is more balanced 😛

[hazy shoal]

Kinda wish there were dedicated vehicle teams. I'm not waiting 10 minutes at spawn hoping a heli respawns

[cedar ember]

I think we should move vehicle spawns up be based on squad points with a max number of spawns

[hazy shoal]

I'd need to think on that idea. I do think squad points need to be more useful

[cedar ember]

And a global spawn that triggers if no squad vehicles are spawned Ina certain timeframe

[hazy shoal]

tbh I do think the game modes need more distinct features and mechanics. Outside of the spawning differences I can barely tell the difference between some of the modes. They all play out the same

just run in a circle

[cedar ember]

But... Squad spawns should be an air drop. So if you are dumb and do it in the open, the enemy could try to assault your location and take it

[hazy shoal]

I mean it would be nice to be able to call in a Quad or something when you're off in the middle of nowhere

they just sit in spawn doing nothing

[cedar ember]

I think squad spawns would do a few things:

• give more people vehicle access
• fun gameplay for both sides (the actual airdrop)
• get people to stop camping hills as much, both as snipers and tanks. This is because if they camp, no squad points.
• it gets squads to really prioritize points and work for the push

This would be yet another thing that encourages you too use vehicles aggressively

Though they still need survivability fixes

[torpid elk]

"hold up guys, im about to airdrop a tank onto this roof"

[cedar ember]

I mean. Sure why not lol

Be prepared to defend it

You would probably have a minute or so before you have the tank where people know what you are up to

And knowing these players, that building could very well be leveled in a minute 😛😛

[torpid elk]

you mean it wasnt leveled when the tank landed on it?

i do think airdrops for some vehicles would be a great idea. idk about tanks but airdropping an atv or humvee seems like a great idea

[cedar ember]

This is battlebit, we don't do realism 😛

Dunno, for larger vehicles, there could be dedicated spawn pads, but they would all be contestable

But still uses squad points

Give spawn points like that to certain cap points, start to give even more, but different value to holding a certain point.

[torpid elk]

on the topic of rebalancing squad points (because it seems a lot of balance ideas want to use them, which im all for) i think perhaps a passive income based on held points might be a way to actually incentivize defending them. it would need to be high enough to be preferable to just letting it get taken and taking it back though

[cedar ember]

Do keep in mind that if your squad lead marks to defend a point, you get squad points for each enemy killed

[torpid elk]

on the point

you only get rewarded for being bad at defending

[cedar ember]

I think it could be buffed so you get a point for each kill you get while in proximity of the point. Only your position matters, not the enemy.

[torpid elk]

you get no squad points for killing dozens of enemies trying to zerg towards the point across a killzone you and your team spend a minute building to defend the point. no, you only get squad points if the enemy successfully overruns your position

[hazy shoal]

I don't get the whole marking a point. I've been SL a few times and I literally could not change which point to go to

[cedar ember]

Middle mouse button

[hazy shoal]

Yeah, I did that but it would only auto-select

[cedar ember]

It gives you squad points when you cap a marked point

[hazy shoal]

might've been a bug since I was passed SL

[torpid elk]

would be better, but i like the idea of adding a large "threatened" radius to points where if any enemy is within that radius and thus threatening a point and you kill them you can get squad points

[cedar ember]

You have to put your aim point over the letter you want to mark

[cedar ember]

I would also be fine with this. But the threatened zone doesn't stop spawning

But it does make it flash red or something on the map

[torpid elk]

exactly the idea. something to actually allow teams to look at a map and go "oh shit, xyz point is under attack. let me spawn on it" without literally being locked out of defending because a single guy snuck past the frontlines and is hiding in a bush or closet somewhere

[cedar ember]

Good idea, but probably the wrong thread for it if you actually want the devs to see it 😛

[torpid elk]

dont worry, i have brought this idea up in like 5-6 seperate threads now

[cedar ember]

Good on you soldier

[clever vessel]

bf2042 called, the tanks are still camping on top of that control tower

jokes aside airdrop vehicles would be nice

[torpid elk]

it also means we could potentially squish low awareness recon players by airdropping a humvee on top of them

[clever vessel]

all the more funny stuff to add to the game

oh and it allows for total terror if we do all of those squad spawning and vehicle reworks

and you have one or two squads who made it behind lines

and the enemy watches as two fucking IFVs drop behind them, one begins shitting out a long line of infantry and the other begins shooting

[tulip ibex]

Ok so LB are a bit OP.. or?

last match

this guy had 101-0

[heady jewel]

Did you shoot him

[flint escarp]

Spent an entire game spraying an lmg and an aug at a good pilot it just annoys him and he flys away and repairs

LBs aren’t inherently OP for all but buffs and nerfs still need to be made for “pro” play just like league and other big games with high skill ceiling

[tulip ibex]

Im a Blackhawk pilot and he was in my team that 101-0 LB pilot

[rancid hound]

was the map waki by any chance

[flint escarp]

Yea waki LB pilots recently are just gross

Seems to be every game

[rancid hound]

people cluster on the bridge so they’re easy targets

if you arent on the bridge they dont seem to go for you often ive noticed

[flint escarp]

^

Only problem with that being barely anyone not on the bridge so unless you’re sniping you find significantly less gun fights

[rancid hound]

if you are on the bridge, staying out of a pile of teammates increases your survival odds

if given the choice between killing one person or 3 people the pilots probably going for 3

[tulip ibex]

Yeah it was Waki

[cedar ember]

Mentioned already, but I have seen some serious aimbotting on LBs recently.

Aside from that, we do need some AA utility, but to have AA we need major vehicle balancing for ground vehicles and BH

LBs actually die really fast to good gunners in a BH, but focusing a LB in a BH will get you shot out of the sky so quickly (usually a tail rotor hit)

[tulip ibex]

Yeah I dont know.. i think its Aimbot too

[magic ingot]

buildable aa/buildable AT gun

[unique jackal]

Ngl any form of tracking missile or additional ground machine gun option will make helis unusable

[magic ingot]

It’s not like mg humvee is threatening lbs

[rancid hound]

it might if it had better angles but it cant aim very high

[unique jackal]

If people used the humvee mgs more it would be a problem for helis

[magic ingot]

oh uh right since this is vehicles thread, can we zero in when using tank? It’s painful to eyeball how high my aim needs to be even at just 200m

[unique jackal]

Im pretty sure there’s a marker that appears next to the reticle that shows where the shot will land. Like a little X

[magic ingot]

(While rpg ironsight can zero in up to 500m which makes 0 sense)

[magic ingot]

Somehow it’s not always accurate and if anything it’s only for AP

HE never hits that marker at distance

I did get a long shot bonus yesterday at wine 127 tho lol

I had to raise my aim half a screen up

[torpid elk]

tracking is problematic in games because of course everyone is going to pick it as an option if possible. so you end up with an absurd volume of it crammed into a minisclue space

[desert cove]

Then he have a serious game design problem, becouse you can do 100 kills with a meme build using suciside c4. Using vehicles makes it more possible.
But there is this thing, when those numbers with LB and tanks are possible only to very few and on very specific maps.
Belive it or not, but not every pilot does 150-0, most barely can fly.
Same with tanks, most players will die in them faster than tank respanws.

Oh, and sitting in spawn and getting kills is a fucking myth, unless you are constantly pushed by enemies up to blue zone, or playing on Salhan, a map which shouldn't have any heavy vehicles to begin with.

[neat plinth]

Some maps offer the unarmed littlebird, you can use RPGs on the side seats and can easily take out tanks with a coordinated crew

[golden estuary]

And those engies can all take augs..

4 augs would end any armed LB or black hawk fast 😂

[desert cove]

Would also make it even more bad for vehicles becouse now there will be AT that can fucking fly. And this would need dedicated AA vehicle, which would be used to farm inf, not AA, like in any other game

[neat plinth]

Also people are sleeping on my cyclic climb comment for the littlebirds. We should be able to use forward momentum for more than .3 seconds

[golden estuary]

Yeah lb physics is UFO-like.

I hate it

[neat plinth]

Doing j turns or nose climbs feels so awkward

[golden estuary]

I swear even battlefield lb had more inertia/momentum

[wide relic]

If I remember correctly the aa track in bf did less damage to infantry vs air so maybe something like that

[golden estuary]

Yeah but did it stop people from using it on infantry only?

[neat plinth]

It def did, you could nose climb in that game

[desert cove]

No.

There are even videos of BF4 AA going 100-1

Or sthblike that

[golden estuary]

And then there's arma AA lmao

Mfw thermal sig and target locks onto infantry lmao

And auto ranges and auto leads shots.

True MIC moment

[neat plinth]

Also the Blackhawk feels way too heavy, but I understand for balance reasons why they would do that

[wide relic]

Will there goes that idea was just a thought lol hard to find any vehicle that doesn’t farm infantry tho honestly

[golden estuary]

The 50 bmg manned turret jeep 😂

[wide relic]

I’ve literally sat in a humvee for half match on c on waki wit that

[rancid hound]

the 7m one is even better

[golden estuary]

Remote turret jeep is goat.

Manned turret jeep is meme af

Especially on tensa town A 😂

You can drive it into the basement and the manned gun juts through the next floor lmao

[rancid hound]

nah wtf

thats funny

[golden estuary]

You can get in/out through the next floor and shoot people 😂

And escape to the basement by changing seats 😂

[desert cove]

Open top turrets are cringe in every game. Idk why they are even a thing when it's extremely easy to kill a player in such position.

[cedar ember]

For sure, vehicles 10000% need some love before that change is ok.
Its a balancing game right? Aside from not being paper thing, maybe infantry needs ways to also help protect armor, like a trophy system they can set up next to your tank that can help destroy/stop rockets. But... with limited charges...

As I said before, always good to have these changes that really really encourage team play with armor and not sniping.
Sure a sniping tank could try to micromanage that trophy system by themselves, but they def open themselves up to some risk doing that (going in and out of the tank).

Though as mentioned, you can already put guys with RPGs on the side

maybe blackhawks just need to also have 4 or so seats that can do a similar thing. Then honestly, no change needed.

[desert cove]

That's stupid idea even in cooperation heavy games. We have 127 players in team. 126 doesn't give fuck about you. Vehicles like players need to be mostly self sufficient, that's why we have shit tone of ammo from the start, and can call air drops, eliminating need for support in most cases

So vehicles need to be self sufficient, because randoms doesn't care about helping you, on the countrary, they will happiliy grief you, by sticking C4 on you so enemies can hit it and kill you

And I seriously doubt they will think about balance before adding such thing. Vilaskis alredy mentioned idea of helicopter with 4 tandems, javelins and tank destroyers (which are completely useles things that relays on camping as a main gameplay style)

[rancid hound]

anything but lockon

fuck lock on

[violet hull]

APCs are blatantly overpowered. They dont even do their job of transporting people but are just bulletproof grenade launchers on wheels

[rancid hound]

?

overpowered is a stretch

have you seen how weak the guns are

[violet hull]

no the gun is OP. its free kills

[desert cove]

LMAO

[unique jackal]

OP? As soon as more than two enemies pop up on you you’re rpged and c4ed before you can reload your gun

[desert cove]

"Oh god, I was killed in 5 shots by a vehicle, its OP!!!"

[violet hull]

"oh god I was killed in 5 shots by C4 its UP!"

[unique jackal]

They can’t push without having tons of infantry to make sure nobody gets a single tandem off in the apcs direction

[violet hull]

Remember how I said its a gun on wheels? Use the wheels.

[magic ingot]

how… how many kills have you got in apc to say it’s op

[desert cove]

There is at best 6 apc on a map, while there is like 127 c4 x6. Scale of problem is different

[violet hull]

it should have its defenses and speed mega buffed and gun nerfed so it actually is a transport.

[magic ingot]

It already got a nerf gun

5 hitmarkers no kill is common

And it’s super inaccurate

[unique jackal]

The amount of awarness you need to get more than 5 kills in apc is overwhelming

[magic ingot]

It’s largely limited by terrain to be any effective (have high ground so you can actually shoot at the ground for the splash)

Direct hit is nigh impossible

[desert cove]

IT IS NOT A FUCKING TRANSPORT. APC ROLE DIDN'T EXISTS IN A GAME WITH SQUAD SPAWN SYSTEM

Use better argument

[magic ingot]

It also gets one shot by tandem so duh

[wide relic]

“Apc” armed personnel carrier

[violet hull]

Its free kills. Its basically a faster tank.

[desert cove]

Oh my god. Yes, everyone is calling it APC, because that what OKI does . In game its called Light Armoured Vehicle. In reality it works as Infantry Fighting Vehicle

[desert cove]

Lmao. It shows you have bever played it

[violet hull]

Everytime I play it I get free kills. Its literally a cakewalk

[desert cove]

It's worse than a tank in every metric. It's harder to use,has less effective ammo

[violet hull]

Im bad at avoiding RPGs with it but avoiding c4 is extremely easy.

[desert cove]

Then show us this "free kills" game

[violet hull]

Show me how underpowered it is then.

[desert cove]

You were the first one to make a claim

You go first

[unique jackal]

Even if you get “easier” kills with it, armed vehicles are force multipliers to help your team push through

The rate of obtaining kills with it is probably not far off from being reg infantry

[desert cove]

But they don't so that. Pushing objectives is suciside

[unique jackal]

Exactly

[desert cove]

Good player will have better KPM than any vehicle, with exeption of very good Littlebirds pilots

[unique jackal]

Fully agree, especially with the like 8s reload

[last axle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/904059795047317624/1141349193290612807/Replay_2023-08-16_14-25-35.mp4

[desert cove]

And 3m back and forth to base every 10 minuts

[unique jackal]

^how could I forget the 5m trip on wineparadise to heal from the bush rpg waiting at D

[violet hull]

Vehicle runs into anti vehicle weapons. Uhh yeah.

I just used an apc for the first time in a while. No one got close to me, it took a drone with c4 to blow me up.

[last axle]

no I didn't even aim at the apc

look

i hit the tank

but there is spash dmg

[violet hull]

Yeah? It has a blast radius?

[desert cove]

You were lucky, or you were camping like some pussy

[desert cove]

6 m to be exact

[violet hull]

Ad hominem. Cant argue.

[last axle]

I have played rpg tandem from day one

and spash dmg is op

[violet hull]

you get an automatic nade launcher thats bulletproof and amphibious. If you get wrecked in it its probably because youre bad and got within 20m of enemies.

[last axle]

it shouldn't spash, and chain as well

[violet hull]

I do agree there. But thats pretty damn rare for vehicles to be that tightly packed anyways

[torpid elk]

I went 40/0 with one. You dont need that much awareness but rather extreme caution

[violet hull]

playing slow support is hard mode. playing medic is easy mode. playing vehicles is when you unlock cheatcodes.

[torpid elk]

Thats an issue, i couldnt really push forward because of how squishy it was but even just a vague awareness of where enemies were (try opening the map and checking which of your allies are in combat) allowed me to avoid most threats and get kills

[last axle]

recent update made it one shot from the back with tandem, c4

80 dmg with heat

[magic ingot]

HEAT rpg don’t splash irl…

[last axle]

while humvee takes 3 c4

3

its ass

[magic ingot]

Humvee is only worse cuz you can’t control the wheel and the gun simultaneously

It’s a better vehicle if you can do both

[desert cove]

They do, but it works like slightly bigger hand grenade

Still can at best scratch a paint of armouref vehicle

Which can survive 155mm shrapnel

[desert cove]

Splash is the only thing that makes it competetive agains tank. Remove it an you would need to make bullets 1 shot kill

Idk, but I prefere it to require 5 shots to kill me, not 1

[rancid hound]

no

[magic ingot]

It treats the entire “splash” sphere the same when calculating any damage but the vehicle damage is very directional

[desert cove]

Fun fact, replacing 30mm with 7m MG or HMG would be a buff

[magic ingot]

Oh yeah hmg has way better muzzle velocity and lower ttk

[desert cove]

Yeah, HMG can easily two shot up to 300m ,30mm can two shot up to 50m...

[rancid hound]

I personally dont think a soldier should be surviving a direct hit from a 30mm round that literally explodes

at the very least not at close range

[desert cove]

Splash is literally worse option in comparison unless you shoot 3+ players in one place

[rancid hound]

secondary guns on the ifvs would help it be less shit

and im p sure they have them irl

[magic ingot]

idk why the opinions can be so parallel, using apc extensively you will start seeing veterans literally dodge your entire clip

[rancid hound]

The only reason people use them at all is because they’re fun as hell

[desert cove]

Yeah, running like mad man on meth while jumping is extremely effective counter

[rancid hound]

this shit is actually terrifying because it usually means they’re trying to get to you with c4

[magic ingot]

And no way to deal with enemy higher than you

Tanks at least have coaxial

[rancid hound]

yea

tanks can defend themselves decently from at least a few angles

apcs are just fucked

camera has annoying static making it harder to see and the sensitivity of the one turret on the entire vehicle is super slow with no way to change it

not to mention you cant angle it up very high

And if you’re focusing someone in front of you you have no way to deal with anyone behind

and if you have to reload with enemies nearby (which you probably will) its basically over if they have explosives

even then if you try to get away, good luck getting far because your backside is exposed making it easy for tandems to hit you, and you dont move very fast to begin with

or have good steering mechanics

or a smoke like tanks do

its also very easy to get stuck on tiny things and stopping when you’re going forward sometimes doesnt happen fast enough

sometimes (all the time) it just feels like you’re in a big metal cage with a timed bomb that may go off at any time

combine all of this with having to go ALL the way back to base just to restock on ammo and you have an objectively bad vehicle

yet i still cant bring myself to hate it

something keeps me wanting to drive them

dont know why

i think underneath it all there’s something awesome but its covered up by layers of bullshit because oki doesnt want to balance vehicles properly

ok i think im done ranting about the apc lol

[desert cove]

That's basically would be my rant too

[desert cove]

Especially this part

APC is like heroine, it sucks but you alwasy want more

[unique jackal]

Just revisited this. +1 to @rancid hound ‘s rant

[magic ingot]

i use apc to snipe black hawk tail rotors

Such dopamine hit when you get that +1000

[desert cove]

shame kills are total lottery

[lucid timber]

nerf tanks

nerf APCs

[rancid hound]

[graceful void]

https://tenor.com/view/fan-average-yelling-british-argument-gif-20849454

[desert cove]

A guy that probably never used them, comes here and whines

Sorry Mister Decimal, but they need buffs

[lucid timber]

ive used them

they need nerfs

majority of playerbase said they need nerfs

too much survivability

[rancid hound]

Apc has no survivability lol

none

[lucid timber]

tanks

can just sit on the corner of the map

and snipe

[rancid hound]

That is true

[desert cove]

That's a result of lack of survivability

Literally,

[rancid hound]

nah tanks can last a while if ur smart

[desert cove]

Idk how ofteh that needs to ba said

[magic ingot]

show me your kd in tanks rushing into center of map

[graceful void]

prob for five minutes each, which is why you're coming in here with such an uneducated opinion

[lucid timber]

no?

[graceful void]

then again, not surprised about this take coming from an infantry sweat

[desert cove]

Show us 1k kills on both

[graceful void]

oh yeah? post the percentage of time spent in vehicles vs. infantry

[desert cove]

So to prove that you have experience with them

1k maybe too much for an exclusively inf player, 500 on tanks and APC would be nice

[graceful void]

he's not going to post anything

it's just shitty bait from an infantry sweat

and like you said, if anything, the camping is due to the lack of survivability

[desert cove]

But wierdly, this problem could be solved by removing tandems

[torpid elk]

and the cost of losing a vehicle. even if they had low survivability if players didnt need to wait like 3 minutes for the vehicle to respawn they would probably play riskier

[desert cove]

Only one of many solutions

[desert cove]

Like in BFV, vehicles are quite easy to take down, but they also respawn in like 2 minutes, and there is like 5 of them for 32 players

So people are playing aggressively, becouse they are only rewarded for that

You die, go to play inf for a minute or two, and you can jump in again

[graceful void]

more like six for tanks, but yes

[desert cove]

And playing more defensively means that you don't get kills, because there is only 32 players and mostly on caps

[last axle]

?

[wide relic]

Gasp you mean actual playin shooter vs vehicle who woulda thought

Literally had 2 tanks workin in concert wreckin everybody half the match on sandy between d an f

Honestly tho there should be a vehicle chat in game for apcs an tanks

[desert cove]

APC spash dmg. Not rpg man

[desert cove]

True, vehicles working together and covering eachother is a very effective tactic. But its avalibe only to very few. Although it compensate for vehicles shortcomings and inbalance, you need at leats 4 players, preferably 6, that do know the game, and can cooperate while being on separate comms.

No game should gatekeep its expirience behind such requirements. Even Arma or Squad doesn't do that.

[desert cove]

Yeah, good idea

[last axle]

sure, for getting from A to B right?

[unique jackal]

Nerf apc actually crazy

[frigid cloak]

With the current accuracy of the ACP?

[rancid hound]

apcs cant snipe but tanks can

[magic ingot]

tanks have like 14 ap

Before a lengthy as hell resupply

If you’re sniping with HE uh… you got skillz

The curve is ridiculous

Tank cannot zero in like a sniper rifle

[wide relic]

Kentucky wendage

[clever vessel]

Real

[frigid cloak]

The tank should have the same thing that makes you see where your AP round it's going to land for the HE

[clever vessel]

Like 30% of the posts in this thread is having to explain to stubborn infantry sweats what the hell is actually going on with vehicles and vehicle balance before they go SKILL ISSUE laugh and walk away

[frigid cloak]

They should have 20 no more no less

[clever vessel]

I think we’ve collectively explained why tanks and apcs aren’t strong and have to camp at least ten times in this thread thanks to them so good luck with the feedback lmfao devs

Genuinely we should probably just make it standard that we ignore any more ‘nerf apcs they camp too much’/‘nerf tanks they camp too much’ posts because they derail everything

[torpid elk]

"nerf helicopters they fly too much" 🙃

[clever vessel]

Ngl it’d be better imo if tanks got a combined 40 shots and you could just choose what proportion are AP/HE

[frigid cloak]

Like war thunder?

[clever vessel]

Yep!

[frigid cloak]

That would be nice

Also

Something like the battlefield customization

I remember that in bf4 there was this coaxial machine gun that was a 50.

[clever vessel]

Def

[frigid cloak]

Feel like the machine guns lack accuracy too

But the 50. It's a laser

Not complaining about the 50. But the others

Also it feels like apcs and tanks should have a booste speed

Like their current one boost one

[clever vessel]

Boost to acceleration/deccelaration would make this that much more controllable

[frigid cloak]

So that way they can keep a constant speed with infantry if they coordinate something

Space it's supposed to be the brakes for vehicles rights?

[wide relic]

Mention nerf ur just a infantry sweat 🤣

[frigid cloak]

You mean me?

[clever vessel]

Also it really would help if the vehicles had a turn radius of more than 0

Half the urban maps leave me ramming into walls

[frigid cloak]

Wider road

Tensa Town for example

[wide relic]

Meant the others u mention one nerf for there precious vehicles it just regresses to name callin immediately

[wide relic]

That’s what happens in urban environments

[clever vessel]

Yeah but even at designated intersections i can barely turn half the time

[desert cove]

Nerfs are mentioned mostly by only inf players that either don't understand what they are talking about and are annoyed for getting killed once or twice by a vehicle, or by inf sweats that also don't understand what they are talking about and are annoyed that vehicles can easily get in thier way of pub stomping

[clever vessel]

Not even just a tank thing it’s a every vehicle that isn’t the quad thing

[desert cove]

siedge of shanghai would disagree

[clever vessel]

Especially lonovo and its little ramps with the barricades that will almost always hit something in your car

[desert cove]

And some US cities have like 20 ft? wtf is that measurement wide roads

[wide relic]

I’m a utility player so

[clever vessel]

As in you play the game primarily with whatever gadgets you have?

[wide relic]

Yep I don’t have a set main that I choose if I’m able to roll a vehicle I roll a vehicle just don’t play as aggressive but still go for obj

[clever vessel]

Honestly respect

[echo jacinth]

please add helis to the shooting range ❤️

[wide relic]

They said there goin to eventually

[torpid elk]

Can we get some flying targets so we can do skeet shooting too

[desert cove]

Tandem one shots the new boat

LMAO

Oki really do hate vehicles to make such fucking huge target one shot

[rare sorrel]

once again the tandem is the problem

[clever vessel]

I thought it was two shot?

[desert cove]

One shot

[clever vessel]

Or maybe it's just that it was so god damn buggy that I never saw anyone destroy it with anything other than c4

[desert cove]

Unfortunately I am getting even more convinced that removing tandem and decreasing amount of C4 is the only way for proper vehicles expireence

Which is unfortunate becouse Oki will never do it

So he should remove them and make BBR inf only, so Im not getting tmepted by them

[clever vessel]

I think we should just get comm servers and mod the fuck out of them

Well I can't program so I'm hopeless in that regard but still

[tame tangle]

Cutting down on C4 hurts gameplay b/c it's used in many other situations (e.g. blowing through walls for entrances). If Oki adds 3rd person vehicle view, it will solve the C4 issue as you will know they're coming and can maneuver

[rancid hound]

again: tandem is fine if you don't have to worry about a million corners and windows that engis can shoot from

[clever vessel]

C4 problem isn't merely that vehicles have bad sight but vehicles are also assailed by the extreme convenience of flanking + the extremely low cost of respawning to kill them

[rancid hound]

most maps are so fucking dogshit that tandem range doesn't matter, hence the whine

I don't see tandem being removed just because maps are so horribly designed

[desert cove]

More propable, tho C4 can be replaced by breaching charge

[clever vessel]

We should really introduce breaching charge it'd be so nice

[tame tangle]

Again, 3rd person view largely solves this. Battlefield has done 3rd person vehicles forever and you were able to C4 them easily too

[desert cove]

We will never get better maps tho

[tame tangle]

Besides, this is clealry a more focused infantry game than vehicles

[desert cove]

We will probably not get it too

[clever vessel]

But in BF you don't get C4'd nearly as much because you take way more time to place all of them and vehicles are tankier

[desert cove]

Why should we lol?

[clever vessel]

• faster

[rancid hound]

same with tandem removal

oof

[tame tangle]

The biggest reason you don't get C4'd as much in BF is because 3rd person and vehicles are more nimble in that game. They might also have slightly more armor than this game but I found the 1st person view in this game for vehicles extremely limiting

[rancid hound]

this game damage system is fine if you're designing a game for 32v32 like BF, not 127v127

[tame tangle]

Plus vehicle physics in this game is pure garbage

[rancid hound]

true lmao

my fucking APC's brakes don't even work

[clever vessel]

No it'd still be unacceptable for BF lmfao I'd know playing on certain BF4 servers

It's just shit :/

[rancid hound]

BF has guidance munition but vehicles have APS, I'd say definitely a fair thing

[clever vessel]

Do agree that it's a reason, I just don't think it's the biggest reason

[rancid hound]

the difference is that BF vehicles have thermal

so mf don't hide in every corners that easy

[clever vessel]

And the maps are designed to reduce clutter (until 2042)

[desert cove]

They are overall better at everything, even thier castrated BFV versions

[tame tangle]

TBH BF 2042 is better than this game overall it just got a lot of hate

I like the gunplay better in BF too

[clever vessel]

Oh I'll be the first to admit I hated 2042 at launch and never went back

[rancid hound]

this game at launch is better than 2042 in some ways, now I don't feel so

[clever vessel]

Gunplay felt better in v imo

[rancid hound]

2042 actually gets refurbishments, this game don't feel so

man the fact that BBR's maps are either shitholes for vehicles or easy farm places proves some thing

[tame tangle]

Maps are really really bad

[wide relic]

I absolutely despise waki an sandy on any mode

[tame tangle]

same

and lanovo

[wide relic]

Just cause there both so overplayed.

[clever vessel]

This game's maps unironically making me appreciate some of 2042's ngl

And I despised launch 2042 maps lmfao

Except that launch site that was fun

[wide relic]

Have yet to play it

[tame tangle]

same

Soon as MW3 releases in nov, this game will be dead anyway so all this talk is useless

[clever vessel]

You gonna play it?

[tame tangle]

yep

[clever vessel]

I have 370 hrs on MW2 so I hope SHG makes gd improvements

[tame tangle]

they're reverting all the shit changes IW did

[clever vessel]

Kinda sad no more spec ops tho

[clever vessel]

Ehh that part didn't matter much to me other than the minimap change

Honestly after they gimped the changes in mid mw2019 it was basically indistinguishable for me from a regular treyarch cod which I'm sad about, I really don't like their design philosophy

[torpid elk]

guys, i know blackhawk is actually in a decent balance spot but please i need this added for the pure comedy of it.

make blackhawk climb rate and speed a function of the number of passengers and rope hangers. i want it so that if we get enough goobers hanging off the rope we can actually start to pull the heli down

[rancid hound]

this would be awesome

imagine getting a group of teammates to pull down an enemy bird without ever even shooting it

[torpid elk]

might actually give pilots a reason to retract the rope

[rancid hound]

I mean retracting the rope to send a bunch of people plummeting to their doom is always good fun

for you at least

not for those people

[clever vessel]

Or even funnier, accidentally jumping out of the pilot's seat on a full heli

I did that once and accidentally sent 6 people to their doom

[rancid hound]

what's the point of TC being able to use thermal and see enemies but gunner can't see it?

[past widget]

to spot and relay information to the gunner. Teamwork!

[golden estuary]

Slots should've been driver, gunner with cannon and coax, commander with thermal and remote turret.

[rancid hound]

you're gonna see spots not enemies

[tulip ibex]

Please ban Peanut from this section

no more funny ideas about BH :C

[desert cove]

But no one is willing to do so

[magic ingot]

Cuz spotting gives nothing

[desert cove]

And it's boring as fuck

[magic ingot]

There was one match I control drone and spotted for tank for the whole match

Guess what my score was

[desert cove]

And needs vocal comunication to be efective

[magic ingot]

0, what cha expect

[desert cove]

10k?

[magic ingot]

Cuz the tank never died they never had to respawn

So I’m not even getting respawn scores

how ironic

[desert cove]

Imo, buffing commander seat is kinda pointless. Just remove it and give thermal to driver and Thermal with good zoom to MG guy

Even if you buff it such that Commander gets 1:1 points of driver, it will still be fucking boring gameplay

[magic ingot]

Oh I wasn’t in the commander seat

Commander at very least get the passenger 200 per kill by the two other dudes

I was out there in a tall grass controlling drone

Commander seat is fine imo…

If anything, maybe award assist as kill instead of some random 200 w/o title

[desert cove]

Not enough tbh, people that play battlebit aren't expecting siting still and clicking 1 or 2 repeatedly, for less XP than medic gets in like 15s

[desert cove]

Then why no one is willing to use it?

Everyone goes for MG, or at best treats CS as transport seat

[tulip ibex]

Gunners really need to get 50% of the transport bonus :C

[elder heath]

50% is a lot for someone behind a minigun
maybe 50% to copilot and something smaller like 25% to gunners?

copilot needs a reason to even exist

[rancid hound]

so you just sit in copilot and do nothing and gain free xp? doesnt sit right with me

[elder heath]

give copilot this
not the actual ac130 weapon
give copilot a (good) thermal sight that can automatically red mark players for the pilot and gunners by hovering over them for like (number to change) 0.3 seconds in 3d space like how spotting vehicles currently works

[desert cove]

That would be more op than commander sight

[tulip ibex]

Nah it still take 6 shots to kill someone in the BH

[obtuse robin]

I dont think BH have or should have any battle potential, its just a fast flying bus for infantry

[magic ingot]

You mean flying coffin

It’s so easy to get downed by apc sniping tail rotor

[rancid hound]

yep

[wide relic]

So satisfying when the hits register to

[magic ingot]

tanks hitting two ap shells doesn’t down it

Legit wtf

flying with head toward enemy always is also not super viable cuz snipers really like to try pop your head

[wide relic]

5 second rushs zig zag that flash bangs come in handy

[magic ingot]

i mean yeah, uh, whenever I fly chopper I do support full exo

who would’ve think this is the only case support shines

[wide relic]

I believe it support is always under appreciated

[magic ingot]

Well the game doesn’t really care about sustained dps, most guns kill you in 3~5 bullets

Large mags of lmg doesn’t really do anything

[wide relic]

It’s fun bein in the reeds in district wit mines

[strange galleon]

Hi, after many hours played since the last big update, and after considering many factors, I came here to give what I consider some important feedback, I hope my comment doesn't get too long, but I'l try to address the ALL the main issues with vehicles:

nerf the littlebird.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

[desert cove]

Does anyone care to have this discussion for a tenth time again?

[clever vessel]

No not particularly

The only part about the littlebird discussion that i really care about is how it shows how little this game has really refined vehicle combat and integration

[opaque lily]

It would seem to me that even 6 HEAT rockets are not enough to kill a tank. I've been hovering above over a few in the transport ingame and even after 5 lengthy reloads and 6 direct hits it's still not enough to kill a tank. I beleive there need to be an increase in tandems from 3 to ideally 6 like the other rockets.

[clever vessel]

…is this meant to be a joke?

[opaque lily]

Good greif. Tandem is completely fine. Only lacking in ammo

[clever vessel]

Sorry that’s not a pointed one i’m actually confused

What tanks have you found that are tanking 6 direct hits with a heat, do they have a crowd of engis or some shit

[opaque lily]

T-90s on Wakistan and Valley. Abrahams too. They cannot be killed even with 6 heat shots from a top down angle.

[clever vessel]

Sorry i’m just gonna say that like… can’t be possible, they don’t have enough health to tank three, let alone six

Unless they had committed repair squad which can be a thing

That said, for committed antitank purposes the tandem’s already doing its job extremely well no?

[opaque lily]

3 tandems only enough to kill 1 thing

Before having to resupply

[clever vessel]

Two tandems at most, def not 3

[opaque lily]

I'm talking like 1 and a half kills. You can't get 2 kills

[clever vessel]

Oh

Honestly i think that’s fair as is? Considering how tanks rarely mass in the game and don’t receive much benefit from it anyhow

I see tank + apc more often, which is def a 3 tandem job

[desert cove]

You mast be hitting front hit box then. Bad for you.

[opaque lily]

I cry

[clever vessel]

Honestly i wish we could test this stuff to find out but we still can’t sadge

[desert cove]

6 FUCKING TANDEMS? what else? One hit auto aim gun for you?

[clever vessel]

Lack of data atm just makes discussions of hitbox real annoying

[opaque lily]

Mayhaps we could compromise on 5?

[desert cove]

There is hitbox ss buried down in updates

[clever vessel]

Screenshots?

Huh, brb checking it out

[desert cove]

That's enough for one person to destroy a tank from the front.

Or 3 apcs

Or 6 helicopters

Or 6 any other vehicles

Don't you think that's too much?

[opaque lily]

I think that is quit fine given the weapons characteristics

drop/range and such

[clever vessel]

The amount of value it can take out though is completely insane

Also i doubt you’d be firing a tandem at beyond 50m anyhow in most situations, considering how wishyall of the rpgs are at that range

[last axle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-nod-catnod-yes-vibe-gif-21529329

yees mhm very good

[opaque lily]

I fly roughly 70-150 above tanks

boats ect

[clever vessel]

70-150m?? God damn you are a good heli boi

[desert cove]

It one shots APCs.

You are mad to suggest any buffs to it

[opaque lily]

I know.

Not buffs, just more ammo a single person can carry

[clever vessel]

I have to bring the thing to less than 20m to get people to hit shit, don’t know how you do it

[desert cove]

It game breaking feature that's makes gamepaly impossible to balance properly, is OP, and belongs in mil sim only

[clever vessel]

Honestly realistically that’s like the only balancer it has atm

[desert cove]

More ammo is a buff, and a big one too

[clever vessel]

The drop isn’t particularly relevant once you learn it and its damage multiplier is just insane

[last axle]

yeees buff me even more mhm

[desert cove]

Yeah, the argument of "tandem is hard to hit" doesn't have any weight and only indicates lack of skill of a user

It's the second deadliest AT weapon in a game for a reason

[clever vessel]

Ehh i wouldn’t say that, it’s more that the aiming difficulty is… honestly minimal lmfao

It just looks way bigger because most people don’t use it more than like four times a game

[clever vessel]

1st being c4?

[desert cove]

I guess so

Either one of the two for sure. Which one exactly is hard to tell.

Idk if devs have info that precise

[clever vessel]

Honestly the main thing is that both are currently too good at their roles

And let’s just leave it there before some inf sweat walks in and starts screaming skill issue

[desert cove]

Like decimal?

Lmao

[clever vessel]

Lol imma be for real i do not bother remembering the names

They might as well be the same person for all i care

[desert cove]

He is quite famous CC tho

[clever vessel]

Content creator schomtent schreator no idea who he is lolol

[golden estuary]

Content creator feedback should be wholly ignored.

Their interest is earning money making content off the game.

[wide relic]

I actually like the idea of 6 tandems ud think usin a bigger back pack would work

[coral citrus]

If APC can go on water then boatPC should also be able to at least move around the shore without getting stuck. Replace RCB90 with a hovercraft.

[rancid hound]

dawg what

[rancid hound]

me when im delusional

remove tandems

[wide relic]

Remove lbs

[fair briar]

blackhawk is too tanky

imo RPG (heat and frag) should do 70% damage severly reduce its mobility

tandem should 1 shot kill it

[rancid hound]

you're gonna trigger blackhawk crybabies man

[rancid hound]

Heat sure but frag definitely not

frags arent anti vehicle warheads

and the damage should depend on where u hit it

[fair briar]

frag should be anti infantry and anti light vehicle (with airburst)

it would still do minimal damage vs armor

[rancid hound]

uh no

could be an interesting rework

[fair briar]

heat = multipurpose RPG

[rancid hound]

there's no air burst rpg

[fair briar]

im suggesting frag should be given airburst

[rancid hound]

why

[rancid hound]

i dint think the actual fragmentation rpg even has a rocket motor but it does in this game

[fair briar]

would be interesting

like change firing more between impact and airburst

airburst would have zero destructio and zero damage vs tank/apc

[rancid hound]

well it's likely just the tracer but devs give every rpg the rocket sound

💀

[fair briar]

but would still be able to kill infantry and do decent damage vs helicopters and hummvees

[rancid hound]

there should be airburst tank round

im tired of having to hit helis directly just to deal 47 damage and not even 2 shot kill man

But back to blackhawks if u want them to be less tanky there should be a tradeoff where they’re more powerful

with better firepower

blackhawks are transport not attack helis

[fair briar]

imo 2 airburst frag rpg should kill a blackhawk or littlebird

[elder heath]

just make frag rpg be identical to heat in (player) damage, but no destruction and 1/2 vehicle damage in exchange for a larger AoE

[rancid hound]

sure give em health is nice but they're tanky as fuck

[rancid hound]

Yea but that doesnt mean you cant give them rockets

they are tanky but they aren’t really a threat

[fair briar]

no rockets or explosives on helis

[rancid hound]

if they fly low enough to drop a squad they’re easy to take out

[rancid hound]

wide Hind moment

yeah why not

[rancid hound]

perfect

[fair briar]

if you give rockets or explosives on helis then i want stingers that 1 shot kill heli

[rancid hound]

nah no

stinger that disable rotors

[fair briar]

nah

no rockets or explosives on heli then

[rancid hound]

current helis suck in the way that the copilot does zero shit

whenever a heli gets taken out instead of exploding in the air it should always spiral to the ground like when the tail rotor dies but instead of the crew living it explodes when it hits the ground

it would just b cooler that way

give me my fucking airburst tank round man

reward my hits

[rancid hound]

ok then give helis flares to counter those

[fair briar]

take HE round on tank, allow it to switch between airburst or impact using select fire

[fair briar]

no

[rancid hound]

[fair briar]

pick one:

• rockets
• flares

not both

[rancid hound]

I pick both fuck u

[rancid hound]

true

fam even flares have effective distance

theres no reason to have flares if theres no improvement to the bird itself warranting having lockon systems

[fair briar]

id say just nerf blackhawk health, give airburst frag and helicopters are perfect

[rancid hound]

perfect?? not at all

[fair briar]

no explosives on helicopters

[fair briar]

its better than explosives on helicopters

[rancid hound]

example lockon can still persist even if flares are deployed if minimum effective distance is passed

[fair briar]

tbh id prefer no lockon weapons

[rancid hound]

ok fine foget explosives what about just more powrful miniguns

those fuckers are like a 6 shot or sm bullshit

just add good MGs

[fair briar]

sure more powerful miniguns

[rancid hound]

one barrel but more powerful hit

[fair briar]

ya the miniguns on blackhawk are pea shooters

[rancid hound]

the bird miniguns are only good because both guns are shooting the same area

little bird*

also a bit unrelated but does anyone actually use the alternate camera for helis?

[fair briar]

wat

alternate camera?

[rancid hound]

yea

i think the key is c

its a cam under the heli

that shows below it

[opaque lily]

They do.

[rancid hound]

☝️

[golden estuary]

The alt cam is so useless 😂

[rancid hound]

yeah

[cedar ember]

Sounds like you need to make a friend with a support player and get ammo supplies. You know, teamwork lol

[opaque lily]

Inside a helicopter?

[golden estuary]

How hard is it to fly back and rearm

Or land and get resupped lmao

[opaque lily]

Trivial. Yet by the time I've had my guy sling his rockets and return to base for him to resupply the burning tank is gone.

[cedar ember]

Also, for those saying the Blackhawk is too tanky. Until they fix the one hit ko rotor issue, they really shouldn't touch it's health pool...

[golden estuary]

Asking for RPG buffs for the reason of heli attack is some 🧠 move 😂

[desert cove]

APC airburst ammo man, imagine

[cedar ember]

What you just said is literally the definition of balance lol

[opaque lily]

The rotor is fine in my view it's only the splash damage that seems to kill it which fucks me off since they don't need a direct hit with the apc.

[golden estuary]

I've done plenty of flying RPG. The tanks don't get a chance unless they're close to their safe zone.

[desert cove]

I am convinced that they don't

[cedar ember]

I died twice last night hovering over our SPAWN by a random APC shot.

[golden estuary]

Even in their territory, the heli can get good enough angle to hit and kill before they drive into the safe zone

[cedar ember]

Might i add, it was ACROSS the map shot

[golden estuary]

I thought you're invuln in the safe zone (region where you can't shoot)

[opaque lily]

I've spent all weekend doing it mate. 6 HEAT rockets and 5 reloads all the while hovering cannot kill a tank.

[golden estuary]

But if you can get hit from outside then that is some dev skill issue with safe zone

[cedar ember]

I guess if you hover high enough nope? Or maybe I was just on the edge. The zone is pretty small

[golden estuary]

Yeah the safe zone is just a small part of the friendly territory

[cedar ember]

If you are tank hunting you should be using tandems

[opaque lily]

As said in the reply chain above, 3 tandems is not enough.

[golden estuary]

Nah heat works fine, I've done it plenty times.

3 tandems is enough if you don't miss lmao

[cedar ember]

Lol.. 3 tandems is enough to kill a tank and APC

[golden estuary]

And you're in a heli. Skill issue if you can't align for a good shot

[opaque lily]

only 1 and a half possible kills.

[golden estuary]

Considering how overly agile the LBs are.

[cedar ember]

You can also put a supply drop on the map in the corner and land on it to resupply

Faster than going to base

[golden estuary]

A heli with 2 side engies is basically vehicle hell.

A heli with 4 Aug engies is peak LB 😂

[opaque lily]

Good greif. I only fly the 12 seat transport helicopter.

Read above

[cedar ember]

You have to realize that right now AT infantry is SUPER POWERFUL. If you had 6 tandems, so would the other 34 engis.

You HAVE to be punished for missing. Wanting enough ammo to kill every single armor on the map before a reload is just greedy.

I'm sorry, but that is the truth

[opaque lily]

Isle has 2 tanks and 6 APCs. Valley has 3 tanks and 3 APCs.

[unique jackal]

Vs 30 engies

[golden estuary]

And you want 1 person to wipe half of them? 😂

[cedar ember]

And 127 players to try and kill then.
So you want to give the other team over 400 chances in a single life?

[unique jackal]

With enough rockets to kill them 5x over already

[golden estuary]

Just use recon c4 drone lmao, killing them as they come out of their spawn

[opaque lily]

You expect them to pull off a 400m meter tandem shot on a camping tank? Even with 3, it is beyond unlikely.

[cedar ember]

You are evil

[cedar ember]

Tanks camp because they can't do anything else...

[golden estuary]

I know but some things have to be done so change can be made 😂

If I don't raise awareness then it won't be fixed haha

[cedar ember]

Every time I hear a drone I get PTSD lol

[golden estuary]

Best thing is tanks and apcs can barely hear the apc

[unique jackal]

The solution to camping tank’s isn’t making them easier to kill while camping, it’s making them viable at anything other than camping lol

[cedar ember]

Honestly i think drones get more kills than armor does lol

[golden estuary]

So far my c4 drone VS armour attempts have a 100% success rate, no drones shot down yet

Cuz armour is often alone shooting from some stupid hill

[unique jackal]

Also did anyone hear the devs mention stingers in the devcast

[cedar ember]

At the same time, making things like helis less one one shot able means they can target the camping tanks easier. It would encourage them to actually push with the team. Given they are fixed for survivability.

[cedar ember]

No?

[golden estuary]

Wtf people gonna bring stingers for. The spawns-every-5-min heli? Recon drones??

[unique jackal]

Saw someone mention it in the #battlebit-eng channel. Wasn’t sure if it was real

[cedar ember]

Honestly the BH is SO CLOSE to being in a good spot.

[golden estuary]

Exactly, if we buff the health enough and remove their zoom optics, we can both force and allow tanks to fight closer

Yeah. LB in the other hand, needs to gain some weight like the BH

[wide relic]

I can’t wait for that

[golden estuary]

The UFO handling of the LB is just dumb af

[unique jackal]

Ngl anyone wanting stingers in the game is actually high

[wide relic]

Na just a realist who wants an actual counter to the lbs

Don’t worry if stingers are comin u get flares

[golden estuary]

Actual counter.. Is game 😂

[unique jackal]

One or two support players is enough to completely drive away an LB

People just don’t play support enough

[wide relic]

Not really I’ve seen lbs spend there whole match farm killin it’s dumb

[unique jackal]

Because no BHs or inf have targetted them

Or enemy LBs

[wide relic]

Na there just sweats who don’t do anything but sit in vehicles an not be a shooter at all

[golden estuary]

LBs also need engagement distances closed in

So the 1% can't just snipe from the skies 😂

[cedar ember]

If you focus fire a LB with omg, you win

[golden estuary]

And avoid any reasonable counterplay

[unique jackal]

I think adding a small small spread to LBs would be the only appropriate change to LBs

[clever vessel]

real talk: are we absolutely sure they'd be implemented alongside flares

[golden estuary]

Spread and weight to the heli

[clever vessel]

sometimes i swear if we got it instead of flares it'd just be a 6 second lock on time

[wide relic]

Knowing oki prolly not cause he Appearntly hates how people are usin vehicles

[golden estuary]

Like I've flown plenty of LBs in battlefield and arma. And BBR's flight model is just ass.

[unique jackal]

I think LBs are in a fine place rn, but that’s the only change I can see myself comfortable with

Stingers are going to ruin helis. The only ok vehicle type in the game

[wide relic]

Na there gona even it out finally

[unique jackal]

Then it’s just inf sim with cash cow boxes of metal driving around the map

[cedar ember]

LBs could use a little more weight to be fair

They pull off some dorky moved

[wide relic]

In rl there the least armored vehicle

[clever vessel]

think this applies to all of the vehicles in the game tbh

the exception being the quad

because it's the quad

[unique jackal]

Criticize LB movement is fair, but even if you changed it they’d still be pulling the same maneuvers(maneuvers they need to have a shred of survivability)

[cedar ember]

Not BH

It's just fine

[golden estuary]

More weight means more predictable paths.

[cedar ember]

Movement wise

[unique jackal]

APC feels like driving a hovercraft

[golden estuary]

And barrel rolls in a LB is bruh

[clever vessel]

oh that's true

[unique jackal]

Also the fact the RPGs and enemy APC shells can completely change your trajectory while driving

[golden estuary]

Or smaller vehicles like quads

Or the railings on bridges lmao

[clever vessel]

me when i am driving away and the rpg bonks me perfectly atop a barricade where my vehicle can no longer move

[golden estuary]

Apc VS apc 🤮

[unique jackal]

Quads and honestly humvees feel pretty planted. APCs feel like driving a balloon, and tanks feel like a styrofoam cooler

[golden estuary]

Apc brakes be second hand

[unique jackal]

APC brakes are like the biggest myth in BBR. Just some invisible idea in the ether theoretically slowing you down

[coral citrus]

Sometimes you get lucky and just do a full 360

[unique jackal]

And the rest of the time sends you careening off a bridge or into a building full of c4 laden medics

[golden estuary]

Lmao being sent off the bridge in Sandy sunset is like being banished to the shadow realm.

[unique jackal]

Fr

[golden estuary]

If I'm down there as infantry I just respawn. The detour to reach the city from there is too long a hike.

[unique jackal]

You just gotta hope someone put a rope earlier

[rancid hound]

wouldn't do anything with that shitty damage and damage radius tho

[wide relic]

Honestly wish u could destroy the bridges on waki using the tanks

[rancid hound]

true my man

[desert cove]

Yet game doesn't do that and rpgs do dmg to vehicles with splash

Even fucking heat

[unique jackal]

Just had a thought that you could pretty easily buff ground vehicles, make repair tool more useful, and encourage more vehicle infantry team play by changing how the repair tool works

[wide relic]

Maybe increase number of tanks an apc in 127 vs 127 mode an minus the in armed humvees

[unique jackal]

Make each vehicle have a repairable health pool that’s a fixed amount instead of a percent of og xp. So a tank would have a repairable health pool of 2x its og health, so it could be fully healed twice before going back to base

Either that or make a repair tool have a set amount of HP it can repair before needing to be reloaded and just getting rid of the capped repair of vehicles

[wide relic]

I don’t think it gives u any xp for the tool also don’t know many that would give up there explosives

[unique jackal]

It gives xp if there’s someone in the vehicle, and a decent amount too. There’s just currently never opportunities to heal vehicles since they’re all either dead or camping staying from any infantry

[wide relic]

Gotcha

[coral citrus]

Capping repairs is unnecessary when vehicles already have a very limited pool of ammo that they need to go back to base to replenish anyway.

[coral citrus]

This is the main problem. You're either close to base anyway and might as well drive back or you're being swarmed by infantry and they're just going to keep chasing you until you're in base so there's nowhere sensible to stop for repairs.

[unique jackal]

Yeah vehicles are still super vulnerable. But so far my experience has been vehicles often have some downtime even when playing semi aggressive. So repairs could be done by roaming engies during that time