Vehicle - Feedback

[thorny mason]

i think it's fine I just don't think two grozas should be able to shred a bird in like 5 seconds flat

like if 20 players wanna start wailing on a littlebird and coordinate that

fuck yeah it should go down that's cool

[magic ingot]

The game has no armor penetration mechanism and they simply moved that attribute to L vehicle damage

[thorny mason]

l-armor damage just really needs a pass because it's wildly inconsistent among all the weapons and imo not very thought out

[limpid flame]

I'd rather have a dynamic where i have Flares And avoid AA And RPG than get beamed by random bozo with his boomer squad shooting at me

If I get caught with no flares that is skill issue

And that is fair gameplay for both sides

Both the infantry And vehicle players

What we have now mainly stems from the fact that vehicles seem to be added to this game without a thought at all, to make the game look cool for trailers

Oki never thought deeper about this part of the game

Which is pretty sad cause with 127 players on both teams, vehicular combat should really Expand even more on the greater feel of the game

[wide relic]

My hero

[limpid flame]

Like tanks/apc dont even have night vision sights despite night maps being a thing

Still to this day

Blackhawks have miniguns that not only do barely any damage but are inacurate af

Apc are a thing...I guess

[wide relic]

Honestly nods are shit any way better off havin a squad member throw flares

[limpid flame]

Tanks literally die in an instant to infantry where as real tank on tank battles never lead to the death of a tank

I dont think I ever seen a tank die to another tank

Cause they can take seemingly 10 AP rounds And then Just hide anyways

Wakanda dynamic is this 💀

[wide relic]

Must have a bad gunner for intsta death

[desert cove]

*Camp you wanted to say. There is no option to spawn camp with vehicles. Exept salhan, where they shouldn't even be there

[tulip ibex]

SO! We all agree that the Blackhawk is easy to gun down right? SO PLEASE MAKE FUCKING GUNNERS GET TRANSPORT EXP TOO :///

as a BH pilot 😦 its hard to find gunners that are happy with the outcome :/ even tho they kill 10 ppl they dont get much exp.. i get 50k in every map

it takes 6 bullets to kill a guy as a gunner...

and to keep my gunners happy i have to take high risks and hover over the checkpoitns so they can get more exp

and what fucking windshield do the blackhawk have? I had better windows in my elementary school...

@subtle canyon

[desert cove]

Dont ping devs

[tulip ibex]

then why dont they make themselves unpingable????

[desert cove]

don't ask me

I just follow rules

[tulip ibex]

Yeah i didnt spam ping them.. but ok, i see.

[limpid flame]

You know what I mean xd

[desert cove]

I know, but there are people unoironicially thinking that vehicles are able to camp any point form blue zone. This is not true and we don't want people who think like that going around and staying "vEhICLeS CaMp FroM SpAWN, nErF!"

[wide relic]

Read story’s about rl pilots of those vehicles you’d be surprised

[tulip ibex]

Yeah I know theyre not that good but if a fking humvee today can withstand ak bullets..

well my point is :/ its easy to shot down BH now, specially the pilot

But its 2023 .. they can upgrade :/

[wide relic]

It takes a few there’s a reason y mraps are a thing now humvee are death coffins honestly especially when Iramz are a thing . It stops to point if u keep on hitin same spot it loses its integrity

[obtuse robin]

every vehicle is basically a coffin in modern wars

[tulip ibex]

I can accept a sniper bullet penetrating a BH windshield

But p90 bullets..

i dont think its unbalanced

its just that if the gunners get transport exp then ppl will use transports more like you should

people think that BH is an AH

its just an extract heli with gunners to protect the extract

[obtuse robin]

BH is great to drop troops where the enemy doesnt expect them to be

[tulip ibex]

yeah thats what its made for..

but people are using it as an attackhel

i

its not an Apache

[obtuse robin]

but ussualy BH pilots just drop you at C or any other frontline objective, where you get insta smoked

[tulip ibex]

yeah that too..

Im usually hovering over the 2 closests spawns

and protecting them

if just ppl learned how to extract properly :/

guess thats just an skill issue

last match i had 60k EXP

0 kills

[obtuse robin]

you just dont deploy a rope until you find a place to extract peoples

[tulip ibex]

exactly

[obtuse robin]

SL also gives you a nice amount of exp(if you actually playing as an SL and not just fuck around), i remember getting 40k exp with a kd of 16/10

[tulip ibex]

damn i should try that lol.. wtf 😄

thats prob 10k more exp

[wide relic]

Does the repair tool for engineer give u any exp?

[rancid hound]

i dont think so

[wide relic]

Dam that’s to bad

[graceful void]

pretty sure it does actually, but not when you're repairing your own

need to repair a vehicle that somone is in

[wide relic]

Gotcha I never use it i want all the booms

[graceful void]

i always take repairs, and i almost never have occasion to use it on someone else's vehicle lol

[pine roost]

Separate gunner and driver seats in APCs.
Do something against the "APC camping in water" tactic as well please.

[cedar ember]

It very much gives XP, quite a bit

Sit in a heli and you get 1xp per health healed

[wide relic]

…. Don’t tel me that I’ll I’ll spend the whole match repairing I want my p90

[desert cove]

Lol no, why do you want to nerf it even more with splitting the roles

And for your information, sitting in water is totally useless

Reason why boats also are useless

[heady jewel]

Congrats on 3082 fucking messages

Make sure to bitch more guys 👍

You’ll maybe make it to 5000

[wide relic]

5000 child play we goin for a billion Mickey

[desert cove]

3k alredy? Damn

We still didn't even mentioned some problems

[graceful void]

That sounds fucking terrible

[rancid hound]

hell no

why nerf the damn thing when its already shit

camping in water is a last resort against the onslaught of c4 and tandems

that are an instant 1shot on land

[wide relic]

If u camp in water ur just askin for a tandem

[desert cove]

But in water you can dodge it, due to fucked up physics

Or just be out of range

[graceful void]

if you're out of range of tandems, you're not within effective range of the autocannon

[wide relic]

True I just want javelins

[desert cove]

I dare to say, SMGs outrage it

[pine roost]

ok

[graceful void]

in general, yeah

[pine roost]

Even though you're probably going to be snarky and I really shouldn't waste my time on trolls:
Its a "personell carrier".
Have you actually seen someone use it as that?

Outside of the start of the match, literally 100% of all APCs are (1/9).

The new boat has the gunner and driver separated.
Real Life APCs have the gunner and driver seat separated.

If the gunner and driver seat were separated, there would be more decisions to make.

[rancid hound]

i get what you're saying but all it would do is make people use apcs less

unless balance changes were made to make it better overall

like better armor or better damage or something

along those lines

apcs as they are are just too slow and clunky to be effective transport anyways

[graceful void]

"real life"

[rancid hound]

the humvees are just a better option

[graceful void]

sure, the gunner/driver could be separated for the milsim mode

[rancid hound]

^

not for the arcadey one though

[graceful void]

but i always when people try to bring "real-life" into major gameplay design aspects for the normal mode

in "real-life", nobody fucking heals 7.62 by wrapping a few bandadges

[pine roost]

ok.

[pine roost]

Yeah, all vehicles are basically "take me to the front lines from spawn" atm, otuside of maybe the cars with guns.

[rancid hound]

Yea

[pine roost]

I'd rather have people play APCs like they solo play cars with guns, rather than tanks though.

[wide relic]

Vehicle user just means there not good at fps

[rancid hound]

also id like to make the argument that it can be seen as an ifv which is designed to fight

doesnt change much but it doesnt need to be stirctly for transport

[fair briar]

gunner and driver should be combined for hummvee and attack boat, just like it is for apc and tank

that will make hummvee used a lot more

[rancid hound]

No i disagree with that

if the driver of a humvee is also the gunner that makes it significantly more annoying

as it is u can just drive and easily swap to gunner in one

dont need to combine

humvees are already used a ton

[pine roost]

Why does this not apply to the APC though?

[rancid hound]

humvee doesnt have some of the downsides the apcs do

[pine roost]

APCs are used just as much, expect there are fewer spawns

[fair briar]

as single use taxis

[rancid hound]

humvee is a lot faster, shoots WAY longer, and theres a lot more of them

[wide relic]

Devs playin favorites

[rancid hound]

apcs have a long respawn cooldown, are slow, and have 20 rounds before reloading

they're basically tanks that fucking suck

one tandem takes them out

[fair briar]

or if i get i an a good firing position a teammate hops in the driver seat, drives it away and we get c4'd or rpg'd

[rancid hound]

not to mention the apc cannon is pretty innaccurate at range

[fair briar]

if a single person can gun and drive a tank / apc, a single person should be able to gun and drive hummvee and attack boat

[wide relic]

There not slow

[rancid hound]

someone here earlier put it pretty well, they said something like "apcs have a high skill requirement to do anything useful and there's no real payoff"

[rancid hound]

compared to humvess yes they are

they accellerate and meanuever worse

[desert cove]

The problem is that it's a game and spliting driver and gunner requires much more cooperation that players are willing to do. Most plays battlebit to just shoot others, not to do milsim. Separate driver and gunner will be a thing in hardcore tho.
Another thing, it's not APC, it's IFV

[rancid hound]

the only real upside of apcs is that they can swim

[wide relic]

Humvees in this game move faster then in rl

[rancid hound]

I will still always love the apcs because they're fun depsite all their flaws but from a gameplay perspective you basically put yourself at a disadvantage when using one no matter how you look at it

[fair briar]

not gonna lie, having to cooperate between gunner and driver in apc or tank sounds stressful and not fun

[graceful void]

yeah the fact they're fun is the only reason i play them

[rancid hound]

yea

[graceful void]

yeah, esp if you're playing with randos

[fair briar]

ya this

[rancid hound]

apcs would be slightly less bad if the respawn timer wasnt so damn long

[fair briar]

basically id never play milsim mode unless i had a party

[rancid hound]

like look at this shit bro

4 fucking minutes

[desert cove]

Depends, its fun but you need to competent players who know the game and use voice chat in the same language

[rancid hound]

compared to these which are literally better

[fair briar]

ok i join a milsim server, i want to use vehicles, but nobody wants to cooperate

[rancid hound]

even blackhawks spawn faster

[pine roost]

I dont see why the new boats should have their gunner separate when the APCs do not.

[fair briar]

i end up leaving milsim server and try another milsim server

same thing

[desert cove]

Respawn timer isn't a problem imo. The problem is that vehicles are too weak for how long it takes. They just needs buffs

[desert cove]

Exactly, boat should be driver/gunnrr from the start

[fair briar]

if i want to enjoy using vehicles my practical options would be:
1 - dont play milsim
2 - only play milsim if i have a party
3 - don't use vehicles in milsim

[rancid hound]

yeah

here's a list of all the respawn times not including the new boat if anyone wants to know

[fair briar]

all vehicles should have single gunner/driver in arcade mode, like how one player can drive and gun for tank and apc

^ this includes hummvees btw

[rancid hound]

ok but answer me this how are you going to be in the driver seat and in the turret at the same time

[pine roost]

I'd rather they separate all gunner/drivers execept tanks and littlebird until they have an alternative mode.

Right now its cancer central plaing Conq with APCs being OMAs.

[fair briar]

what do you mean? tank and apc have one player doing both gunner and driver. Its not realistic but its fun

[rancid hound]

fair ig

i suppose theyd just remove the gunner seat entirely

[fair briar]

gameplay wise, remove the driver seat and let the gunner drive

[pine roost]

I'd love to see APCs with Finite spawns, and they would go back to spawn to pick up more.
Good exp rewards for deploying troops. (so you could spawn troops outside of safe-zone and capture point zones)

Similar to sunderers in PS2.

Right now, there is no incentive to use APCs as personell carriers. There is ALL the incentive to use them as solo super-humvees with strong demolition-capabilities.

[wide relic]

Only if they took away the ability to heal back in spawn

[fair briar]

i argue its more that theres no incentive to spawn into an APC as a passenger

im too scared to stay in an APC as a passenger for too long with all the C4 and tandems

and its easier to spawn on team mates

[pine roost]

Spawning system is a mess atm.

[fair briar]

if nobody in my squad is in a good spot i just change spuads

[wide relic]

It’s not rl it just a game ..

[rancid hound]

yeah there isnt

its a black void of death

literal coffin

[fair briar]

like if APC had a decent bonus like refilling ammo or restoring health or being a global spawn point regardless of squad

that would be a good incentive

[desert cove]

But literally why? There is no need to force vehicles that ARE IFV to work as APC'S. We have spawn system and helis, both do this job much better and faster.

[wide relic]

Look up strikers in Afghanistan

[desert cove]

"APC" as oki calls them are IFV in reality of this game

[pine roost]

Then remove the extra seats.
Its clearly only being used as a solo vehicle outside of the start of the match.
Id rather have a clear definition of the use of a vehicle than the omnipotent mess the APCs are currently.

[fair briar]

either way, im too scared to spawn and stay in an APC

just change squads until you get a decent spawn point

[pine roost]

The idea is that you would spawn at them in a "deployed" state, so you're not inside, but spawn at the "exit" of the vehicle

[fair briar]

that would be neat but i dont see how that changes things

[desert cove]

No. No, you don't understand. IFV'S have capacity to transport infantry, but it's not thier main role. Just like in game BTR can take 8 players, but it's main role is killing enemies

[fair briar]

imo:

• give APCs a secondary machine gunner like what tank has
• make APCs global spawn point (anyone in team, regardless of squad can spawn in them)
• if APC is full, then allow teamates to spawn on the APC, except they'd be outside behind the APC

[desert cove]

You edited the message after my reaponse

Not cool man

[fair briar]

APC can keep its current health/main gun, i think those are fine

ive gone on decent kill streaks with APC, its firepower is decent; I just stay back and use it for mobile fire support

[rancid hound]

secondary gun checks out since they actually have those

[desert cove]

Secondary player seat with MG is something I advotace since playtests

[wide relic]

Except there top heavy Like u wouldn’t believe 😓

[desert cove]

????

[rancid hound]

?

[pine roost]

It would work more as a squad radio than a team-mate.

Team-mate spawns is an arcade mechanic.
The "you cant spawn on contested points" is not. If you squad is in combat, in most cases you're forced to spawn back at base.

This game suffers most from appeasing the worthless BF fanboys who will dissapear once the next BF comes out (since it will obviously have listened to the BBR success).
I'd love to see this game go more down the insurgency sandstorm route, but seems like with you 3, I'm in the minority.

Either way, they need to clean up their Arcade/Milsim mish-mash of mechanics in all sides of this game. (Movement being arcadey, but reloads etc being slow, spawns, vehicles, objective captures, objective contesting etc).

[wide relic]

In rl roll overs are a thing for strikers hence top heavy

Any miltary vehicle is the cheapest they can get lol

[rancid hound]

but this isnt real life :V

i dont think weight matters for this games vehicles if the littlebird physics are anything to go by

that shit has no weight to it i swear

[wide relic]

It should i don’t want it to be another cod or fortnite there’s alot of potential

[pine roost]

This.
Catering to "I want this to be like battlefield" guys is such a missed opportunity.
I really want the vehicles to behave and play more realistically, but the current arcade mechanics makes it impossible to make the vehicles be played in more than one way

[wide relic]

Think more siege or cs

Or world if tanks

[desert cove]

It does not lol. All vehicles feel like they are hovering

[rancid hound]

i agree except for the blackhawk

[pine roost]

The Quad Bike hits a little surface and then it starts prancing like a goddam horny horse

[rancid hound]

that feels like there's something there

[wide relic]

The fact u drop off a cliff no damage is dumb 🤣

[rancid hound]

yea vehicle fall damage should be implemented

[fair briar]

nah having to coordiante driver/gunner is stressful and not fun with randoms

[desert cove]

No, your are wrong. The vehicles are more mil simy ones, put in totaly arcade game. That's why they struggle

[desert cove]

It's necesary with thier current fucked up physics

[wide relic]

Ya an I abuse it like u wouldn’t believe it

[pine roost]

Fair enough, but the APC having their gunner/driver seat combined is an arcade change.
I will actually die with my superior, objectively correct take.

[rancid hound]

who doesnt lol

[wide relic]

I honestly think the devs just gave there favorites the best things not expecting the game would be a hit

[desert cove]

You are free to do so, tho you are worng lol
Anyways, this game is unholy mix of bf4 and squad, it's especially visible with vehicles. They are squad like, and we have tandems, that one shot apc's, but then everyone can equip one shot kill weapon, like in arcade

[rancid hound]

i cant lie though some things they did with the vehicles are cool as hell like the blackhawk down tail rotor mechanic

[pine roost]

Everyone having C4 is another stupid decision.
Their reason being "oh but we dont want to take away the antivhicle capabilities from medic!"
When they have a dedicated anti-vehicle class in the engineer is so dumb.

I would agree with the tandem thing, if AND ONLY IF, they implemented a "vehicle disabled" mechanic where the tracks/engine/tires could get disabled, requiring repair or something

[fair briar]

ya medic having c4 is dumb af

[clever vessel]

Are there really any particularly good opportunities to abuse it ATM?

[pine roost]

I could see Assaults/Leaders getting 2 C4, medic and snipers none.

[fair briar]

make pickaxe and sledge hammer one gadget axeHammer gadet (left click for big hole, right click for small hole) and make axeHammer available for all classes

i dont want to talk about leader lmao

[desert cove]

Another one about "vehicle disable mechanic".
Guys, can we stop? It's fucked up idea that won't work in Battlebit. We don't want oki to make another bad design decision to make armour gameplay even more terrible

[clever vessel]

Thought: give the pick to supports?

[fair briar]

im leaning towards assault and engi having c4

[pine roost]

I play leader whenever I'm squad-leader on principle lol.

I'd give supports C4 too since they're so slow and it fits their "heavy carrier" role imo.

[wide relic]

When ur tryin to get places an it’s Insta death for infantry but vehicles u don’t get that damage so I’ll go places u cant easily reach

[fair briar]

axehammer should be all class gadget, and id go as far as allowing people to pick axeHammer instead of a pistol

i never really was a fan of the support class trope of a guy carrying a machine gun and ammo for his team

should be the other way around, the machine gun has much more firepower than assault rifle, squad mates carry ammo for the machine gunner

[clever vessel]

I think it'd be better if it's not given to medic or recon tbh - former because I think the limited mobility should be a part of the kit, latter because sniper holes

[fair briar]

nah i do agree with allowing all classes the option to interact with destruction mechanics

what i disagree with is giving all classes anti-vehicle capability

[clever vessel]

Eh, fair enough

[pine roost]

Pickaxe is already a thing for snipers though.
It just used less because its in the same slot as Grappling Hook and the Scope Glint thing (which is people still use, they're bad, but a lot still use it lol).

[desert cove]

That's where breaching charge comes in

[pine roost]

This is such a non-brained in BBR with destructble environments.
I really wish they'd add interactable doors too. And a way to bar them.

[clever vessel]

Fuck yeah we could really use a breaching charge jeez

[fair briar]

would breaching charge just be c4 with minimal vehicle damage?

[clever vessel]

That and probably high building dmg

[pine roost]

I dont even care if it would do good amounts of infantry damage.

[fair briar]

breaching charge would be cool

[clever vessel]

Maybe it could be a decent device for demolishing buildings and forts too, make an improved destruction system that much better

[fair briar]

literally my only issue is medic having anti-vehicle capability tbh

[wide relic]

Bring Back islands an oil fields an anime no my stance on vehicles but i agree now medic should only have 3 c4

[fair briar]

side note, medic should get a health box that can be dropped to passively heal teammates as another gadget

they'd have their current medkit for fast single heal and the this health box for slower, passive aoe heal

[pine roost]

This should be after a milsim mode is dropped in any case. They shouldnt do this at the game's current state.

[wide relic]

Medic is god class

[clever vessel]

I genuinely do not get why this is not already a thing as opposed to the current quick movable heal

*movable infinite heal

[fair briar]

tbh i play engi more than medic

tbh tho i only play engi, medic, tank and apc

speaking of engi, it should have instant vehicle entry/exit and repair tool should allow full hp for vehicles, like how medic can restore 100% health to other players, engi should be able to restore 100% health for vehicles

nobody uses repair tool cuz its better to go back to base to repair

you repair and you spend 5 seconds getting back in your vehicle

[pine roost]

I hate this mechanic.
It incentivices camping near spawns or playing super passively for vehicles.

It kind of needs to be in the game in its current state, but man I hate it so much.

[fair briar]

if c4 is removed from medic, engi gets instant vehicle entry/exit and repair tool buff, id consider vehicles to have decent but not OP levels of survivability

[wide relic]

Cause the divs love med class

[clever vessel]

It's not that much of an incentive unto itself it's merely a further consequence of the current vehicle balance tbh

[fair briar]

no need to nerf tandem or c4, no need to increase vehicle health

[wide relic]

I’f anything they should be given breachin charge

[clever vessel]

Especially since you repair at the same speed as you would have back at base so the main incentive is the far increased safety

[fair briar]

on the other hand repairing closer to objectives means closer to the action and less down time, which is a sizable benefit, worth the increased risk

unless your vehicle isnt 100% or you need 5 seconds to re-enter

[pine roost]

Would also love that, just like with Small/heavy/Squad Ammo Crates, you cannot supply ammo endlessly, you shouldnt be able to infinitely re-supply ammo on vehicles either.

If there was several ammo deposits on a map for vehicles it would at least vary the monotone "1 vehicle all game"

[clever vessel]

.......

Wait as in a single point can't perpetually supply vecs?

So there's the supply limit like with current ammo boxes

[pine roost]

So you can get like your total ammo resupplied like 3 times or something

(as in if your max ammo is 200, you can resupply 600)

I have the feeling that this thread is mainly being used by people who are vehicle players. Suck to try and speak up tbh, so I'll take my leave.

[clever vessel]

Imo, ammo is a very different dynamic with vehicles than it is with players - vehicles are a platform, their balancer is their relative size and vulnerability; the ammo restrictions won't do much

[clever vessel]

Though yeah multiple resup points on the map is just a unilateral improvement we should do it

It can only encourage vehicles to go forward

[pine roost]

Ammo depots would also make for secondary objectives maybe. Like they didnt contribute to tickets, but only a captured ammo depot would allow for resupply

Theres so much dead space on some conq maps (Sandy, waki, isle), that having something in those spaces would be nice

[clever vessel]

Ahh that's the BFV strat - works kinda but we'll def need more cooperation to get it to work; when I was playing the lack of real coordination meant I had to wait and beg for a nice guy to come along and build the point p often

[fair briar]

just make ammo depots spawn on objectives

[clever vessel]

Yeah

[fair briar]

tho, i dont think its needed tbh

ive almost never had to go back to base to re-arm my vehicle

its always been just to repair

and then eventually i get killed while still having some ammo

[pine roost]

Sorry, I meant that you could do both at depots

[clever vessel]

Really? It's a pretty normal experience for me on the IFVs - one resup, and then die

[fair briar]

like its realistic to go on a 5 to 15 kill streak on an APC / tank before dieing

[pine roost]

Although, I'd happily see repairing from spawn etc would dissapear if they made the repair tool better...

[clever vessel]

Real - that thing needs a buff

[fair briar]

i think they should keep repair/re-arm at spawn but give options to repair/re-arm away from spawn

[clever vessel]

And the ability to damage players I mean come on (not a necessity it's just fun)

[fair briar]

so players can choose to repair/re-arm closer to the action, but with more risk

or choose a safer option but with more downtime

[wide relic]

Ask any one in this thread will tell ya I love vehicle hunting

[pine roost]

Vehicle disabled mechanic when

[wide relic]

I want my track disabling 😓

[clever vessel]

Honestly I would love it but we can't really talk about one before we get these vehicles into a position where that'll serve a discernible battle purpose

Most vehicles die completely away from the action, so disabling just kinda makes camping even more attractive since now they can hit your track and stop you

[fair briar]

getting hit be several tandems or swarmed by c4 medics is definitely not "away from the action" 😂

[clever vessel]

Well yeah because being aggressive gets you into the position of being hit by several tandems and swarmed by C4

[wide relic]

We can all agree tanks an apcs need a rework it sad asf little bird is better than tank Just shows the. Chuck devs

[pine roost]

Opposite though, when you're the only one trying to take out a vehicle, it sucks, and its so often the case. You get off one rocket, and that vehicle is gone ..

[clever vessel]

Mhm

[fair briar]

does anyone here think that tanks/APCs are too squishy or don't have enough firepower?

[desert cove]

They are too squishy, forced to play in always hostile environment, and they are practically blind

[pine roost]

APCs has too much firepower imo, but I wont say that in this thread.
It doesnt need splash, I'd rather have them more accurate if they didnt have splash damage. But I wont say that here

[desert cove]

Firepower is good, just need tweaks to vehicle vs vehicle dmg

[desert cove]

The splash if the whole identity of autocannons in games man. Show me a game when IFV don't have it wit HE ammo

It's thing that makes them different form normal machineguns and makes them viable when compared to a tank

Splash is crucial for thier role, unless it's AP ammo ofc

[pine roost]

I dont find it enjoyable to play against APCs camping on high grounds, sorry.
You can say whatever you want, I dont like how one-sided the engagements feel.

"oh an APC let me hide in this building"
Oh wait, you cant.

Okay, let them have their splash. Remove the building damage.

[fair briar]

APCs die in 1 hit to the back with tandem

[desert cove]

That's more fair, but then APC is the only thing without any form of destruction

[fair briar]

imo tank/APCs firepower and durability are fine as this

[pine roost]

"only thing"???

[fair briar]

they need some quality of life adjustments to their physics, id give APC a secondary gunner too, as well as stabilizer for the secondary gunner

thats it

[desert cove]

I don't count air, for obvious reasons, and all incmf have it

[fair briar]

ya im fine with tandem 1 shotting apc from behind

like i said earlier, remove c4 from medic, buff engi repair tool, give engi instand vehicle exit/entry

[desert cove]

Then why they die soo quiclky when not camping, even if usee by skilled players?

[fair briar]

because they swarmed by a lot of other players

[pine roost]

I dont know what incmf is, but cars and quads cannot do this without crashing into buildings, which APC can do too

[desert cove]

That's just fucked up. There should be NO ONESHOTS for anything with respawn longer than 10s

[fair briar]

when i play vehicle i keep my distance from enemies and try to stick with my team mates

i have no issues getting like 10 to 20 kills before dieing in a vehicle

[desert cove]

Man, that destroys idea of a power multipier

[fair briar]

vehicles dieing due to massed c4 / RPG is fine

whats not fine is medic having anti-vehicle AND player healing

[desert cove]

That's not much tho. Everyone can do that

Try 60-0 in apc

[fair briar]

60-0 is hard

as it should be

[desert cove]

Which was very much a possibility before recent updates

[fair briar]

vehicles shouldn't be unstoppable killing machines

[desert cove]

Now it's impossible onc254 imo

[desert cove]

They are outperformed by inf

[fair briar]

ok whatever instead of 60-0, now you're 60-4

[desert cove]

Even world record is higher on inf

[fair briar]

why is that a problem

[desert cove]

No? Wtf no? With 4min respawn you couldn't even do x-4. Good luck geting 4 vehickes in a row after spawn

[desert cove]

By deasign, they should perform equal or better than lone infantryman, they are power multipliers

[fair briar]

they do perform better than lone infantryman

ok you say "anyone can do 10 to 20 kills" in one vehicle

can anyone do 10 to 20 kills before dieing as infantry?

[desert cove]

No. Go and make a screen of a game where vehicles are doing better than inf at the end of it.

[fair briar]

they perform better than infantry when they're in play

[desert cove]

It's rare for vehicles to be in top 10 on score board

[fair briar]

thats cuz of the respawn time

[desert cove]

And this game has skilled players

[fair briar]

is going on a 10 to 20 kill streak easier in a vehicle than as infantry?

[desert cove]

I can get more kills as inf than a vehicle in time It's respawns

[fair briar]

so the issue is respawn time then, not the vehicles' firepower or durability

[pine roost]

Having vehicles respawn all the time is bad.

[fair briar]

i agree, my point is that vehicles when they are active are a decent force multiplier already

they just need some quality of life improvements

but their firepower and durability aren't limiting them

[desert cove]

Respawn timer is not a problem, durability is. That's like conclusion of 3000 messeges sent here

[desert cove]

Agree with fire power, it's good
Survivability is bad, APC can be one shoted by everyone for fuck sake

[pine roost]

1000 messages sent by vehicle-mains.

As in everything communication and teamplay is key.

Play like an idiot in an APC? Get killed.

Try and solo take out a vehicle? Good luck, unless the vehicle driver is braindead and on life-support in hospitals.

As an APC you can just go be untouchable in the water.

[pine roost]

Dont you think that is more of a problem with everyone having C4, than a problem in the APCs side?

[desert cove]

Go read this thread from the start then

[fair briar]

getting in water is a stupid idea as apc

you have no cover and you're super slow

[pine roost]

I can restart it:

We should separate gunner/drivers in APCs

[desert cove]

Both, everyone have c4 and APC have badly designed resistances

[fair briar]

sure in milsim mode

[pine roost]

There is no milsim mode.

[desert cove]

Few people alredy were telling you it's bad idea

[fair briar]

not yet

[pine roost]

I have still to hear a good reason outside of "i cannot be a one man army then mommy!"

For anyone wanting balanced gameplay across the board, its objectively the only correct solution.

[desert cove]

Will be in future, there is only 3 devs

[fair briar]

seperate gunner/driver is unfun unless you joined in a party

[desert cove]

Why every one that disagreea with the fact that APC just sucks uses this argumen? God.

APC was fine before weakpoint change

[fair briar]

a skilled engi with c4 and tandem can solo kill vehicles consistently

[desert cove]

2 shots with tandem, 3 with HEAT, was fun to play

[pine roost]

Because you're vehicle mains.
I do agree with the recent changes being bad for APCs tho

[fair briar]

a decent apc / tank driver should stay close to team mates and far-ish from enemies

[desert cove]

Now it's just one shots

[clever vessel]

Is this not just skill issue but with more words

[pine roost]

I'm not saying that

[fair briar]

if you see an enemy vehicle, just 3D spot it, and then if you die, spawn on teammates closest to the vehicle (change squads if you have to) as engi with tandem and c4

[clever vessel]

Man

[desert cove]

Impossibel. Back caping, average iq of players below 50, playerd don't care about you, don't support you, they don't even repair you if you ask them.
It's casual game, vehicles need to be good on thier own, but get better with other players. Not be reliant on them to be viable

[fair briar]

vehicles are good on their own, staying near teammates whether they're actively trying to protect you or not greatly improves your survivability

[desert cove]

You heavily implied it, which is basically the same

[fair briar]

more eyes and guns tryign to kill would be RPGers / C4ers

and more targets for enemy to kill before they attack you in a tank

[torpid elk]

Well of course vehicles are not used for transport, people just pop into existence wherever tbey want (usually the back points) because of squad spawning

[clever vessel]

Please just don't crux discussions on 'lol well deal with it' which is what skill issue is. It's not an argument or a proposal. It's 'lol have fun'

[desert cove]

No. Just go and playr the game man. I have 400h, and nearly 10k kills on vehicles. I do know the game, and they definitely AREN'T good on thier own

For god sake, APC doesn't even have night vision

[pine roost]

As I said, this game suffers from arcade and milsim mechanics being combined in weird ways

[fair briar]

i prefer moving towards the arcade direction tbh

[pine roost]

I dont.
Arcade fanboys will move away the second a new game comes out.

[fair briar]

then you can wait for milsim mode

or you can play squad

[clever vessel]

I agree with the first part but not the second part: vehicles are awesome! But they don't benefit from teammates except for a repairman

[pine roost]

"or you can play CoD" this is a stupid argument.
Arcade and BF fanboys will be gone the second a new BF comes out, because that game will certainly have picked up a thing or two from BBR.

[clever vessel]

Vehicles do not benefit for the most part from ever being in the vicinity of anyone, not even teammates, in my experience

The sole benefit so far I've seen is that they can take pressure of the vehicle. But that's opposite of what should be happening! The vehicle should be taking pressure off the god damn infantry, not serving as a machine gun with a huge ass hitbox

[fair briar]

vehicles' firepower is taking pressure from infantry

[torpid elk]

Funny you mention cod, my friend actually said the other day "you know, if this dev is smart he would expand his team and hire on people and start making a cod knockoff too. Battlecod remastered"

[clever vessel]

Well to be more specific tanks. IFVs are fine in a supporting role, but again they currently aren't due to squad spawning, lack of incentive, lack of access and extreme vulnerability

When players move up the tank has to be up at the front tho, and currently, it ain't most of the time

[torpid elk]

Ifvs, when the stars align, are actually a godsend or nightmare as an infantry player, depending on which side you are on.

i love having an apc as support when trying to clear a building. They can roll up to one, shit out an entire squad, then provide aoe suppressive fire and destroy cover while infantry sweep the building.

the problem is the game wants to do its best at preventing situations like this from happening. Squad spawning means you dont transport people. C4 being widely available means too many threats for you to feasibly do much at the frontlines, the ammo mechanics mean you want to be close to base to be able to rearm (this is actually a thing that could be solved by adding more resuply crates for infantry and vehicles across the map. Isle has one at the first poi t outside your base! Put some more, maybe put one at the C point on most maps?)

[desert cove]

There is no incentive or reward to do so. Only punishment tbh.
Besy games you can find are mostly camping. Geting close results in 10 rpg and 10 c4 kamikaze fixiated on you. Not fun experience, not fun gameplay.

And then you get send to respawn screen to wait for 6 minutes

[desert cove]

I like that you used when the stars align, zero consistency with IFVs.
Tanks can at leats do well-ish with camping and do it often
APC gameplay is a lottery

[clever vessel]

Yeah, I've noticed this more and more too. Sometimes you really will get that occasional supporting ifv that does their job well and helps push up to objs, which shows that it's not as if we're lacking people who try - but I don't see them lasting for long, which eventually filters them off vehicles anyways

[torpid elk]

It actually also requires players to form something resembling a defense for the ifv to be useful too. As we all know, defending doesnt really happen much right now. I had a game today on district where the enemy captured a back point within 10 seconds of the game starting. Did this do anything meaningful? Not really, the rest if my team just turned around and crashed over the point. For vehicles to be effective stalemate breakers we need stalemates

[clever vessel]

The circular gameplay really comes to mind here

What stalemate? We'll just keep circling the drain forever, swapping points in a circle of life

[torpid elk]

Like, in the moment im often bitching and complaining about an ifv meticulously blasting out every single wall of the building i set up in but i recognize that this is a major role of the ifv.

my squad rolls up to a rear point, fortify a building, give enemy players hell, and then an ifv rolls up and starts picking appart our cover and fortifications and splashing us down and the enemies, with us now supressed, clear the lower floors and work their way up and through the building

[clever vessel]

Ironically this is also a consequence of the choke heavy maps because this lets players avoid costly, slow moving slugfests on chokes like waki c and even sandy as of late

[clever vessel]

This is something ppl need to recognize: that it's being so effective means that it's doing its god damn fucking job

[desert cove]

Yeah, that's my problem with them. I was playing close with inf, but few deaths on waki bridge or Basra C made me reconsider my choices. Then I started zooming through map and killing players when I see them, with occasional helis and jeeps near enemy spawn. Got slightly less kills but at leats I didn't die in 3 min.

Then Oki nerfed weakspot and now my gameplay style is invalid

Now they can't serve as IFV, not as flankers, and are terrible at long range fire support

[clever vessel]

You can't have it both ways: they're too good at killing you and too campy and not doing their job. That's why there are people insisting that there's a mythical infinitely powerful spawn camper despite all evidence to the contrary, because otherwise how do you justify more nerfs to vehicles

[clever vessel]

Yeppers, they're only good for racking up passive kills at a distance now that, barring some situations (apcs in water, certain points), has no impact on the game

It doesn't actually act as an equalizer that the camping tank got 60-0, because he wasn't helping his team get the objs and now they're 300 tickets down and have no recourse

[rancid hound]

apc (armored personnel carrier):
-Carry personnels: no
-Armored: not really
Ok let's rename it to IFV (infantry fighting vehicle):
-Can fight vehicle of same type: no
-Can fight infantry: not really

either way it's shit

[rancid hound]

I can assure you camping is the only tactic available for tanks

APCs have to push and die to even score hits

[torpid elk]

the funky thing is that the shit map design ends up being positive because the funnels on the map tend to force at least some sort of fight every now and then.

if the game didnt have the current problems with attacking being overly rewarded and incentivized over defending and if squad spawning didnt suck half of each team to the opposing team's back points to backcap such map design would be SHIT

i mean, it still is shit but at least it tends to converge people together to get some semblance of a fight

[desert cove]

I am aware man, and I seriously don't like that

[rancid hound]

nobody likes it...

people say tanks like to camp, definitely not lmao

we camp because we don't have other choices

[desert cove]

We all say that maps are shit, but Vil did few things right. Maps look cool, I really like aesthetic of some, especially new "district" and camping spawn proper is impossible, no matter the map

[rancid hound]

cool =/= playable

these maps will work well in Unturned, not BF styled games

[desert cove]

Yeah, but they look cool!

And APC can swim!

[rancid hound]

idk man at least helis can fly

[desert cove]

Imagine if they couldn't

[torpid elk]

a lot of "solutions" wont do anything about that problem either. i really dont think just straight increasing tank health will do anything except making camping at the back even safer. they still wont want to go to the frontline where everyone and their mother has a tandem and 5 c4

[rancid hound]

depends on your interpretation but the whole point is to make vehicles more survivable

reduce explosive or buff health will allow it, just depends on degree of implementation

[torpid elk]

they need to be more survivable at the front in a way that doesnt just make sitting at the back just as viable

[desert cove]

That's because increasing HP is stupid idea. Tanks are survivable enough imo. There is just to many sources of dmg for them to be effectice

APCs need some buffs tho

In hp and resistances

[rancid hound]

nerf explosive keep health or keep explosive buff health

like I said depends on how you see it

[fair briar]

vehicles would be more survivable with repair tool buff and c4 removed from medic

[clever vessel]

Yeah that's a start

[rancid hound]

remove c4 from non spearheaded class as well as specialist: assault and engi

the rest don't need anti everything explosive like c4

[fair briar]

ya c4 should only be on assault and engi

[torpid elk]

yea, part of the problem with c4 is it does everything

why wouldnt i equip c4 for every class to round it out in ways no other gadget would

[rancid hound]

I find it funny that Squad, a milsim esque game, has more arcadey vehicle gameplay than BBR

fun as well (in the sense of balancing)

[clever vessel]

Better than the grenade at clearing rooms, better than the sledgehammer at opening up buildings, better than the RPG at anti infantry activities

[torpid elk]

if it is going to perform an antivehicle roles its why im convinced it needs to do something like be good at disabling vehicles without outright destroying them (unless you get like 15+ sticks of c4 on the vehicle, which would require being absolutely swarmed by infantry)

[rancid hound]

c4 kill should be teamwork effort, not 1 man vs everything

[desert cove]

Not exacly. Making vehicles more spongy have effect on player by making them feel that thier tools are underpowered and they don't do enough. 40dmg from tandem to tank looks cool and imoactfull. 10 dmg from AP is a joke. Same rule.

[rancid hound]

127 motherfuckers vs 2 tanks ye definitely balanced, wonder why vehicles camp

[fair briar]

imo:

• give assault the ability to pick a 2nd primary weapon (takes up both pistol and gadget, and both primary weapons would have half ammo)
• give assault SMGs

this way, they have a viable alternative to c4

[desert cove]

Wrong thread

[fair briar]

true my bad

[rancid hound]

AP isn't explosive, but I get your point. Vehicle v vehicle is funny and deserves its own discussion

[torpid elk]

yea, like if i c4 a tank and take out its treads and then an engineer follows up with a tandem... that feels good

or if my c4 disables their turret which makes it incapable of rotating or fireing and forces a retreat until it is repaired... that also feels good

[desert cove]

Np man

[fair briar]

im just thinking of ideas to make c4 less prevalent by giving good alternatives

[clever vessel]

I think c4's still more useful than having two guns tbh

[desert cove]

Yeah, I want to make it, but not today

Ima ping you for it tommorow

[fair briar]

u dont think having scar-H for long range and vector for close range is a good combo?

[rancid hound]

thanks

[torpid elk]

hear me out guys... give medic the ability to equip shotguns in the same slot c4 would be in 😈

[desert cove]

Definitely, not even a choice

[clever vessel]

Or even if you somehow muster the necessary 10 C4 between you and your friends to get a tank... That's a fuck yeah moment, that's cool

[desert cove]

C4 is just too good at anything

[clever vessel]

It's a good combo, but not worth the primary gadget (C4) loss atm

C4 value is just too high

[torpid elk]

yea, it would require disabling its treads so it cant get away and then disabling its turrets so it cant fight back while you stick more c4 on it and then also winning the last ditch fight as the operators abandon the tank to try and fight you off

[fair briar]

fair enough

[torpid elk]

and imagine trying to do that with other enemies around

[fair briar]

i think as a start just limiting c4 to only assault and engi would be decent

[rancid hound]

I still don't understand Oki tbh:

1. If tanks are going to be engaging infantry better most of the times, why make HE reload faster than AP? AP shells are lighter than HE anyways.
2. Why is it that APCs need to shoot half of its magazine just to kill a jeep? 3+ mag just to kill another APCs?
3. If bullets can go through window holes and damage personnel inside, than why not explosive shells as well? Currently they get absorbed by the hitbox of vehicles
4. Why miniguns with stupid spread of damage instead of normal MGs?
5. Why are vehicle "good" at everything except anti vehicle?

[graceful void]

lol devs said they want to keep medic on c4 because everyone should get anti-vehicle weapons

[torpid elk]

honestly, im torn between allowing support access to c4 or not. im not sure if it is the intended role but one of the better jobs support can do is just straight up reshape the map on demand with his... 22 c4?

[graceful void]

which is bit of a silly take imo

[rancid hound]

not surprised given devs play nothing except medics

[graceful void]

kinda defeats the point of the class system

[fair briar]

i also think that mines and claymores should be limited to support only tbh

[clever vessel]

Also this gives us the opportunity to introduce more destruction focused alternatives like breaching charges, Bangalore's, or your Double up sledge pick

[fair briar]

sledge pick ❤️

[rancid hound]

they're called "recon" class but they don't do recon for the team, just sniping

yikes Oki needs to proofread his whole ideas sheet

[fair briar]

i said earleir all classes should have sledge pick and should be allowed to take sledge pick instead of pistol

[torpid elk]

we made a class that has some of the best guns, can heal itself in a game where nobody else can, has more bandages than anyone else, and moves faster than a lot of the other classes.

"WhY iS eVerYoNe PlayInG mEdiC lIke AsSaULt?"

[clever vessel]

You know what that means?? More people get to do more things that are more interesting than the infinite boom

[fair briar]

and can take out vehicles

[unique jackal]

dont want to hijack, but just played district night and camera view vehicles(apc and maybe tank, only got to play apc) are almost unplayable. can't see 10 feet in front of them

[rancid hound]

night is unplayable

for vehicles

[fair briar]

i think we can agree that classes should have the following specialties:
assault: infantry combat
engi: vehicle combat
medic: healing

[torpid elk]

even after the bandage change medics are still just straight up better if you want to frag because you can heal yourself in like 2 seconds and everyone else spends like 10 seconds bandaging themselves and then is completely out

[fair briar]

i dont play support or recon

[desert cove]

Known problem man, APC doesn't have NV, it's a bug tho (idk how even)

[clever vessel]

As a support player the support niche should be suppressing/covering fire

[rancid hound]

"we don't have times for vehicles"
proceeds to nerf vehicles to shit then ignore it

[fair briar]

support: suppressive fire + defense (construction, claymore, mines)

[rancid hound]

Oki please read

[torpid elk]

i mean, i try but the game really doesnt give much to you for that job. i have a shitty little drone that is better as a meme suicide bomber than actually for reconnaissance. i get no rewards or tools to effectively mark enemies and threats.

[clever vessel]

And let's not even start on the synergy medics and medics have, two medics together pop back into the fight twice as fast

[rancid hound]

"Converted M830A1 HEAT-MP-T with a steel nosecone and a delay fuze, used to destroy concrete obstacles." ye it destroy no shit my man

[fair briar]

what about recon binos giving 3D spotting on infantry?

[torpid elk]

its actually one of the only roles dmrs are good at. just throwing slugs at a medic orgy ball faster than they can revive. bolties cant really do that effectively

[clever vessel]

Also, side complaint: that god damn drone should have a better scan system than just letting you ping from above

[rancid hound]

holy fuck 120mm HE shells have more explosive than all of these shit yet still less effective in terms of damage output and lethal radius

man how "balanced" do you want your shit to be Oki?

[clever vessel]

For the restrictions tanks have in this game I'd be assuming they were capable of dropping nukes at 4 mins of life or something lmfao

[desert cove]

3D spot is bad feature in ant FPS game. Not shoot the dorito in battlebit pls

[fair briar]

honestly, i find 120mm HE shell decent vs infantry

[clever vessel]

It's quite good ye

[desert cove]

No matter if vehicle or inf

[torpid elk]

i want more reasons to use the drone. as it exists in its current form it is just a poor man's rangefinder.

in fact, im rather opposed to the rangefinder attachment. get rid of it and make the binos and drone able to do something in the role of reconnaissance other than just a shitty little red ping

[rancid hound]

decent vs infantry, shit vs everything else

[fair briar]

what's a good alternative to give recon actual recon tools then?

[rancid hound]

it can't put down sandbags 😭

[desert cove]

It is, same dmg as frag hreande/heat/c4 but far greater range

[clever vessel]

Ahhh this hurts me so much but I agree

[desert cove]

Idk, 2d static spot, or 3d spot only squad wide, while using drone and keeping Los

[rancid hound]

same radius also, god awful balancing tbh

i'm fine with kill cap but radius limiation is awful

[fair briar]

id also add like

[torpid elk]

fucking planetside 2 q spam dorito tactics 😔

i always wanted to use smoke effectively in that game but the doritos just invalidate it

[fair briar]

its fake scope glint spinning thing (whatever its called)

allow that to be used as a stationary camera

[clever vessel]

CAMERAS

god that would be a cool addition

[torpid elk]

what about as a motion detector within a radius around it?

[desert cove]

Same in Battlebit, but inf can use smoke, vehicles? No. Fuck you. 3d marker wallhack for every enemy

[rancid hound]

give recons access to UAV

they need to recon more shit

[clever vessel]

Motion detector that beeps its ass off within a certain radius

[fair briar]

this would just help camping snipers

[rancid hound]

(given squad leaders don't get any shit)

[fair briar]

id prefer motion sensor pokeballs (like in battlefield bad company 2)

[hardy perch]

sure this has been said before but please for the love of god add mass to vehicles

[rancid hound]

add mobility

honestly just add shotgun tank shells at this point im tired of stupid HE drop that you can't aim with

[torpid elk]

Add suspension

[fair briar]

o ya thats another quality of life thing

add zeroing to vehicle weapons

[clever vessel]

Decouple aiming from dpi

[rancid hound]

no just add automatic range finder and aim set

you click keybind it aims for you

[fair briar]

vehicle sensitivity is also a must have

[rancid hound]

with accuracy of course

[clever vessel]

Also: tbh cut the squad leader role

Just let the squad leader have their special buildables

[rancid hound]

yup

[past widget]

The thing to understand about Oki is that he barely knows what he's doing

[desert cove]

In terms of FPS game, he is doing great

With vehicles he is stumbling like a blind toddrel

[graceful void]

yup, that's a fair assessment

[pine roost]

Please separate APC driver and gunner seats.

[rare sorrel]

Please take your chimp brain elsewhere

[clever vessel]

Damn no hesitation in saying that whatsoever

[rare sorrel]

Call it as it is

[clever vessel]

In lighter ideas it'd be fun to have schizo customisation for vehicles

Humvee with tracks and three machine guns and a smoke launcher

[pine roost]

"Please keep it on topic, and civil"
I was providing serious feedback, if you don't like it, you could've argued with my opinion, instead of namecalling. Now I cant read your messges anymore.

[clever vessel]

You should've owned calling your opinion the superior opinion tbh

[clever vessel]

More serious suggestions: humvee customisation. For the pickups, ammo/health packs on the back; for the M2, window armor or a stronger boost; for the automated turret boi, nothing special other than the ability to disable its engine in exchange for a permanent spawn point

Cheap, flexible options that can all fit into a squad's kit

The kind of role the humvee should fulfil, imo

[pine roost]

Would be cool if squad leads could get some special upgrades to their vehicles.

[rare sorrel]

When you say such deranged things you should expect to be called out for it. This game is an arcade game why on earth would you separate pilot/driver and gunner. Especially when tanks are already underpowered

Especially when your opinion has zero thought to the game itself, and is something you want because you like milsim

[limpid flame]

Hardly a serious feedback, no backing up of your argument

[pine roost]

I'm blocking you too, but just for your pleasure:

APCs shouldn't be just more mobile tanks. (nerf to their HP was a bad move)
Separate the gunner/driver seat like they did with the new boat.
Skill floor for APCs are way too low, and unless you try using it in the middle of battle, you can basically farm free kills.
Separating the seats promotes healthier gameplay for everyone. You can't just abuse a transport vehicle, it relies more upon communication, and feels a lot fairer to fight against.

[limpid flame]

"Im BlOcKiNg YoU tOo"

Snowflake moment

Oh no

IM now so sad because of it xd

You could've dropped your arguments first without making yourself look like a crybaby that Just wants apcs nerfed(lol)

What you Just said is as if I said, nerf humvees:(

[rare sorrel]

Habarudo the milsim boomer

[clever vessel]

Wondering about quads now, i think they kinda just do their job exactly as they should atm

Boats are a fascinating quandry though, genuinely wonder what customization would be good to add to them

[rancid hound]

anti c4

[clever vessel]

FOB vehicle? For it

[clever vessel]

APS for boats?

[rare sorrel]

APS would mostly just be used retreating and given oki balance so far a max one use

Because using is proactively is probably quite conditional

[clever vessel]

Still, i can see it being useful - even one rocket is a rocket

[rare sorrel]

I’m talking tanks not boats too

[clever vessel]

Oh

Mmmh i’d personally put it on like a timer

For a few seconds it deflects all incoming projectiles and after that it’s done, one use up

[rare sorrel]

Yeah like I said mostly used for retreating

[clever vessel]

Yeah

[rare sorrel]

If you have to use your counter measure while retreating then it’s a pointless counter measure

[clever vessel]

Or maybe just rushing

You pop it running through a roadblock

[rare sorrel]

Since after all, you’re already retreating

[clever vessel]

Ehh, i think it’s still got value especially as people get better and better with the rpgs

[rare sorrel]

Yeah but the value is so shoehorned, it’s again kind of pointless to have a counter measure that’s only really useable in one situation and that situation it’s value is low

The reason APS work in battlefield is because the game allows you to be reactive while BBR does not

[rancid hound]

true

[rare sorrel]

So you can use aps proactively and while retreating

[clever vessel]

Yeah

But i’m in near complete rework gang so :p

[rare sorrel]

Might as well rework the whole game then

There’s comments by oki saying this game is casual

Yet here we are with weird milsim elements still

Which are anti casual

[rancid hound]

it's not even milsim it's delusional balancing thoughts

[limpid flame]

It stems from the fact that very early this game was more milsim And people did not like it

Rightfully so, this game from the get-go was casual

So bit by bit most of the milsim shit Got removed/nerfed

But some are still here to this day And they absolutely make no sense

Oki wanted this game to feel like squad but this game was destined to be more of a battlefield than squad

IM all ok with certain hardcore elements, that what makes the game different, that is what makes the skill diff, but certain elements Just need to go

[rare sorrel]

Really because there’s quotes of him saying things like he copied battlefield

[limpid flame]

He wanted both games to influence

But squad was his favourite

[rare sorrel]

I mean squad is a battlefield mod off shoot anyway

BBR is 80% ripped battlefield

[limpid flame]

But there are heavy key differences

[last axle]

AT mines suck ass

if they did more dmg it would have been a double kill sadge

fucking 7 dmg

[rancid hound]

@desert cove what the fuck 💀

look at that splash damage on APC

[limpid flame]

Laughable

And then C4 exists

[last axle]

i was like HUH? when i killed the lav

[rancid hound]

man

[torpid elk]

you see, the explosively shaped penetrator from your tandem heat actually ricocheted off the tank and into the apc

clearly

what tandem actually means in the case with the rpg is you are able to hit two vehicles together at once

[fair briar]

i suggest splitting c4 into two gadgets:

• demolition charge

• anti vehicle charge

• demolition charge works like c4 but has minimal vehicle damage (5% vs tank)

• anti vehicle charge has minimal splash and minimal destruction but has same vehicle damage as current c4. It would also have a landmine mode in which it functions like the current anti vehicle mine and would automatically detonate upon contact with a vehicle. To switch modes, equip anti vehicle charge and use the change fire mode, same as fire select from full auto to semi auto. Basically anti-vehicle charge is C4 combined with anti tank mine

only engi and support have anti vehicle charge. Anti vehicle charge would replace anti tank mine.

[torpid elk]

there has been talk about satchel charges doing similar to what you mentioned

[magic ingot]

Funny enough AT mine has huge building damage radius

I use it for anti building mainly

Smaller houses can practically get one shot by one at mine

[torpid elk]

this shit is so fucking dumb btw, its so fucking goofy to walk into a building, see a mine, shoot it thinking its an AP mine, then have to make a mad dash out the building because it was a stack of 5 tank mines

[magic ingot]

no?

It only takes ONE to render a huge radius of walls as non supportive anymore (easier to understand: walls that got damaged to change color is as good as gone when calculating if a building would fall)

And at mine makes a hell lota work even if it’s just 1

You see all walls just “cracks”

Which btw is awesome since people can’t tell the color difference if they all changed color

And they shoot an AT mine to collapse their own camping spot, not my fault

[torpid elk]

its an anti-tank mine. not an antibuilding mine. its goofy and you know it

[magic ingot]

yes

One time I single handedly demolished half of salhan

[half pond]

Add vehicles to gun range to practice

[desert cove]

In future

[desert cove]

Disgusting.
Man died only becouse he was close to other vehicle. I would rage quit. Not his fault, he wasn't even targeted.

Such situations only promote sitting alone and camping

And it was done by 1 player. ONE

[last axle]

hehe

[magic ingot]

it’s funnier to one shot tank with a line of C4s

[last axle]

quad is more satisfying

[desert cove]

that's just busted

In a fucking spawn zone

[limpid flame]

ARA members be like

[magic ingot]

Spawn camping at it’s finest

[last axle]

this shit is way too op

my game shat its self

tf was that

[heady jewel]

What were they thinking when they made tandem rockets for this game

[desert cove]

They didn't. They copied it from Squad and give it to everyone like in BF

[wide relic]

That it’s an awesome idea

[heady jewel]

What

[wide relic]

Love my tandem rpgs

[desert cove]

Literally KoS for me

[last axle]

Rare mine kill

[desert cove]

You put it in a spawn zone...

[last axle]

MLG

[magic ingot]

replace Lb minigun with rocket pod

[last axle]

heat seeking as well mhm

[magic ingot]

Rocket by definition doesn’t home

[rancid hound]

smh BF moment

give blackhawks rockets

[flint escarp]

It's getting the point sweaaty littlebird players are dropping 200+ a game on waki time to bring stingers and anti air missiles into the game cause fuck the nerds he was prestige 3

flying upside down at mach 8 while ripping 20 people to shreds

[magic ingot]

bro use your mgs

Both mgs give decent Lvehicle damage

[desert cove]

Aug have 12 lvehicle dmg, and it's a laser beam with velocity of a sniper

[magic ingot]

I should try that next time

[desert cove]

Just shoot LB with a fucking Aug

[magic ingot]

What’s the muzzle velocity?

[last axle]

900

[magic ingot]

Whoa

Yeah that’ll cut

Swapping ma engi primary to AUG

…. What’s the purpose of support again?

Purpose not found

[rancid hound]

Unlimited grenades

[magic ingot]

Literally got middle fingered by trophy

[rancid hound]

and you can build a 5 star hotel

[rancid hound]

what 💀, really

[magic ingot]

so there’s the balance, it’s mediocre at killing people but good at killing LB

[desert cove]

In a game where defence is not a thing

[rancid hound]

sandbags work best to annoy the shit out vehicles

hexco walls are my personal favorite

or whatever they’re called

[limpid flame]

git gud u bot

[flint escarp]

You're bad can't use a rifle + L + ratio

[limpid flame]

interesting take xd

i get 150 kills in LB and 150 kills in infantry

so what is the point

[flint escarp]

Huge cap

[limpid flame]

hm

[desert cove]

Man can't understand it's just him that's unable to counter LB💀

[flint escarp]

No proof that was done with a gun

[limpid flame]

if it was in an LB you'd see the LB icon right next to my name.

[flint escarp]

Either way this is a feedback channel

[limpid flame]

you're that kind of people that will say APCs/BTRs are OP aswell

[flint escarp]

so keep it to that and stfu and stop talking

I gave feedback

React to agree or disagree don't at me

weirdo

[heady jewel]

Me reading the 101019284859002th argument in #1138533470348525699

[limpid flame]

i think it's pretty good that this feedback channel has so many messages

it proves the point that vehicular combat is shit as of rn

it stirs a heavy debate

hopefuly noticed

[flint escarp]

Also gj putting words in my mouth, they have counterplay with c4 and tandem and slow movement

[limpid flame]

and LBs dont have counterplay..?

[flint escarp]

Not when u can fly them at mach 9 flying upside down strafing at 500 mph

[limpid flame]

APCs tailrotoring or just straight up destroing, RPGs, Humvee7M type shit, M249/Ultimax, coordinated big bird attacks, sometimes even tanks can get Lbs, AUG EXISTING LITERALLY, sniper shots

[rancid hound]

little birds start smoking after barely grazing a tree it feels like

theyre made of glass

it doesnt take much to down one

[flint escarp]

I agree for most players LBs suck

[limpid flame]

The supposed to cockpit glass damage reduction never made it thru aswell, so it's still easy to shoot pilots out

[rancid hound]

lbs arent overpowered at all they’re only good if the pilot is

they arent some noob crutch vehicle

[desert cove]

Totally dunking on them isn't counterplay

[limpid flame]

even forgen or memento mori will complain when you focus them down

every good LB pilot gets mad af when you start to focus them, and it REALLY REALLY is not that hard as you think

in other words, try hitting your shots next time if you feel opressed by them 🙂

[flint escarp]

You're assuming everyone wants to focus a heli

instead of running around shooting at people

[rancid hound]

I mean if its a problem than isnt that the logical solution?

lol

[limpid flame]

im assuming that if you feel opressed by it, take the matter in your own hands and deal with it

[rancid hound]

if something s shooting u shoot back

if you dont defend yourself thats on you

[flint escarp]

Yes and having anti air would deal with that 🙂

[rancid hound]

You dont need anti air though

thats overkill

[flint escarp]

true

go to war irl

[desert cove]

People don't care to even start shooting lol. They just want LB nerfed even tho they don't try to counter them

[flint escarp]

and just shoot them bak:)

u don't need anti air

xd

[limpid flame]

i personally hope AA tools will come to the game at some point as a pilot but as of right now there is plenty of ways to counter LBs anyways

[desert cove]

LMAO

This is a game

We are arguing about game

[flint escarp]

Give stupid examples

Get stupid examples back

[limpid flame]

most dumb take i have ever heard

[flint escarp]

JuSt ShOoT tHeM

[rancid hound]

if you dont shoot them then dont complain if u get killed 🤷‍♀️

[flint escarp]

just like bf4

heli op and base raping

complaining when they get shot out

heli pilots all the same

[rancid hound]

biggest coping ive seen in this channel

[flint escarp]

babyraging weirdos

lmao

Ooooo I don't like it when my vehicle gets shot

[limpid flame]

i literally gave you a list of counterplay longer than any vehicle have in this game xd

[flint escarp]

I don't like counterplay to my gameplay

cry about it waaaaah

[limpid flame]

infantry monkeys crying when they cant get insane killstreaks lul

[heady jewel]

Me reading the 1002839202938393029th 4chan type argument in #1138533470348525699

[rancid hound]

[desert cove]

LMAO Don't even compare those two situations.

BF4 fucked up air balance

We have problem of lemming players to busy spamming nades and cricle jerking on waki bridge to even consider counterplaying agains helis

They fall from the sky very easyli if you just try

You can even shoot the pilot from his seat with a fucking side arm

[desert cove]

Nah man. It's only second one.

[wide relic]

Lbs has no real counters for them that’s why u see sweats on waki playin an never be shot down

[desert cove]

Just shoot at it.

Like really, it is that simple

[magic ingot]

what can the copilot of a chopper do

[heady jewel]

Nothing

[elder heath]

stare at people
be held hostage over the lack of a parachute

[heady jewel]

And is target practice

[elder heath]

i dont even know if you can bandage yourself if your bleeding as a copilot

[magic ingot]

give us ah64 where copilot controls the weapon system

RU can get its Mi28

[desert cove]

Even less than tank commander lol

[rancid hound]

yeah at least tank commander gets spotting xp

copilot gets nothing

[desert cove]

Still super boring and should be merged with other seats imo

[limpid flame]

[flint escarp]

Lmao someone attacks his precious heli again so he calls them a clown

No one else can have an opinion

Definitely NA player

The ego says it all

[magic ingot]

takes time for people to realize AUG exists

[fair briar]

i dont mind tank commnder spot

another set of eyes on the tank is fine

another place to spawn in hte tank is fine

[desert cove]

No man, you have just objectovely wrong take, and you were first to get toxic when we disagreed with you

[desert cove]

Its boring, no one is using it, requires too much copperation than 99% players are willing to do to be usefull

[flint escarp]

Was I tho man literally atted me

didn't reply

he atted me

that's cringe af in a feedback thread

disagree add a reaction let me know your opinion is fine

but at and call a bot

cringe NA ego

[night ingot]

I hate the new tank meta of standing in water or at a lone island hard to reach for infantry and camp there as if tomorrow doesn't exist. :\

[cedar ember]

Will only get worse until we get some major balance changes to make vehicles useable outside of camping.

They sit in water to avoid the c4 spam. Its the only way to live for more than a minute

[magic ingot]

Gets SE glitch an blown up by drone c4 regardless

[flint escarp]

fIRST GAME i JOIN

Of course he's little bird raping

not broken btw

[cedar ember]

Not saying he is, but there has been a spike in little bird aimbotters recently

saw one last night, I was riding co-pilot... he would literally snap onto stuff every so often. Not constantly, just off and on. But damn it was obvious when he did.

AA would really help though... a lot of the moves little birds do would get them killed with any type of basic AA. Even if they had flairs.

[fair briar]

Re-work frag rpg:

• give it same anti infantry aoe as regular rpg
• give it airburst mode / proximinity detonation mode
• airburst mode does same damage to light vehicles as heat rpg
• airburst mode has not destruction

[cedar ember]

we need a new AA weapon type

don't just combine it with AT weapons

you have to choose.

[fair briar]

I dont use frag, but isnt it shit vs apc and tank anyways?

[cedar ember]

frag 2 shots APC

[fair briar]

Wat

O.o

Ok i didnt kno that

[cedar ember]

yea, its dumb

hit em on the side or back

2 shot

[wide relic]

Na it’s perfect

[fair briar]

Ok in that case, nerf frag vs apc/tank

Frag = anti light vehicles (including helicopters) and infantry

Heat = anti armor and destruction

[cedar ember]

I mean... heat shouldn't do anything to armor.... its literally a non-penetrating explosive... Its like setting off a firework on a steel plate. Won't do a thing.

It can weaken armor, but its not going to sink into it

[fair briar]

Heat literally stands for high explosice anti tank

[cedar ember]

my bad, I was thinking of frag lol.... long day

[fair briar]

Anyways, rpg heat is fine as is

And ya frag should do little damage vs apc/tank, but be good vs light targets such as hummvee, helicopter and infantry

[cedar ember]

but... I could be wrong. Isn't heat an anti-light armor IRL?

[fair briar]

Ya a heat roudn would destroy a hummvee for sure

But im saying give frag an airburst mode that does the same damage as heat, only vs hummvee and helicopter

So frag wouldnt need a direct hit to seriously damage light vehicles

Or to kill infantry

[cedar ember]

ehh... hummvees and helis are not too strong atm... minus the little bird, it is closest to balanced. It just needs a little AA action and better balancing on other vehicles (so they are alive longer to attack it) to real it in

[wide relic]

I’m just glad they limit little birds

[cedar ember]

APCs can wreck little birds, but now APCs die in half a second. So there goes one of the LB's most feared counter...

[fair briar]

Humvees would be good if a single player can use the machine gun and drive, like how a single player can drive and gun on tank/apc

Hummvee machine gun is decent

[night ingot]

Reducing the C4 spam wouldn't remove this issue though. Even without C4 it's far too effective.

[cedar ember]

Hummvee are close to decent. They need to be harder to be shot out of, and they need damage states so you just don't insta pop. After that, I think they are ok.

[cedar ember]

The second the enemy decides to not camp and push with vehicles, the other team will be forced to respond. If they don't they will most likely lose

[wide relic]

Lol doesn’t work for I got the distance down for rpgs my clan spends half the time takin out vehicles for exp

[cedar ember]

I mean, its not perfect, just the best solution lol

I find it much easier to avoid RPGs at range in water.

I keep moving

[wide relic]

Ya since I snipe a lot I’ve learned to just lead target

[cedar ember]

They clearly aren't zig zagging 😛

[wide relic]

Nope thankfully 🤣

[night ingot]

A selfish tank driver wouldn't give a damn about losing the match as long as they can in relative safety farm kills and points. Just like how currently most medics are selfishly only healing themselves to farm kills and points instead if reviving and healing allies to help capture points.

Reducing the C4 spam will help, but it won't fix that part of the issue.

[limpid flame]

@flint escarp after this game , i still call you shit

git gud

[flint escarp]

I used all the so call counters

did nothing

say aug is broken

2 dmg a hit xd

u just proven my point

LBs are broken

[limpid flame]

i've been targeted so hard that if i didnt move enough i'd be dead 24/7

first 3 minutes after getting heli i got sniped out

i had to get back to repair 24/7 SIMPLY BECAUSE OF FIREARMS

it's not that LBs are broken

[flint escarp]

WOW

[limpid flame]

it's jsut that GOOD LB pilots will still survive cause that is the skill diff

[flint escarp]

U HAD TO REPAIR

not die

NO WAY

[limpid flame]

you just dont get it cause 99% of people that fly will die instantly anyways

[flint escarp]

Yes

[limpid flame]

and once you get someone who actually mastered the heli u will cry

[flint escarp]

and I never once

denied that

[limpid flame]

besides i died 4 times purely because you guys shot me out

it works

[flint escarp]

just because someone being good makes it super OP

[limpid flame]

it works heavily

you dont even realize how hard this game was for me xd

[flint escarp]

I never said u were a bad pilot

I never said the LB was not bad for average players

I said

the sweats

Make it super broken

unfun and no counterplay to it

[limpid flame]

but it's the same for infantry sweats man

[flint escarp]

it's not tho

[limpid flame]

have you never seen guys getting 150+ kills on infantry?

[flint escarp]

yes but that's because he either plays well or positions well

you can do that 90% of games in heli

just because of the move speeds and movement in it

with guns doing negative damage to it

Anti air needs to exist

or it's just gonna become heli rape

[limpid flame]

this game should have AA tools anyways, change my mind

[flint escarp]

bf4

game will die

[limpid flame]

i should not be able to die to pistols n shit

i want flares, i want enemies to have lock-ons

do it

i want them to SEND it at me

but it will not happen

purely because of game size

and you CANT nerf LBs

im already papermarche

[flint escarp]

They either have to nerf the LBs or add AA

[limpid flame]

latter one

dont ruin one part of the game. fix it

[flint escarp]

You're a good pilot I don't deny that

Neither do I think you're shit

but you can't deny the survivability is way too strong

you have to go back to repair yes

it's annoying yes

but you don't get a death for it

therefore not punished

[limpid flame]

i have not been targeted enough

i can send you clips where i should be dead immediately and your team just stops shooting at me thinking im dead anyways\

idk

braindead lobby

[desert cove]

Yeah right. Not broken. For every pilot capable of that there is dozens if not hundred of guys that cannot even fly straight. Such performance is extremely rare. And you are showing literally top 0.1% on this screen.

[flint escarp]

It's happened in 3 of my 5 games today

[desert cove]

You are just unlacky, really

[limpid flame]

you met booser

he is op on helis too

[flint escarp]

I met tae something

[limpid flame]

takarae

[flint escarp]

don't rememver full name

yea

[limpid flame]

DAYUM BRO WAS UNLUCKY XD\

[flint escarp]

he went 200 and 1

[limpid flame]

no shot he met taka, then booser, then me xd

honestly unlucky

but i can give you explanation

people recently started putting in more time to learn how to use LBs and there will be more of them

but it will still not change the fact that usually you will meet monkeys who die instantly

i can recommend you get into BTRs and just focus the heli down

heli cant shoot you back, and it's relatively easy to kill anyways

[flint escarp]

I agree comepletely as I said most people suck and littbird is fine but when u get pilots like that and the game will get more like that the more the hype dies down and playerbase gets smaller

it will become more and more nuts pilots

[desert cove]

Man, you just met 3 really good pilots. That's a fucking bad luck tbh

[flint escarp]

that AA is needed

[night ingot]

What I use to counter LBs is simply picking support with M249 or Ultramax and spam bullets into their cockpit the same way they spam their bullets to me. It works wonders imo.

[flint escarp]

or you can't play the game

[night ingot]

I also use this strat against blackhawks, but I usually end up killing the minigunners instead since they're with their side towards me rather than the cockpit.

[fair briar]

giving hummvee single driver + gunner, with stabilizer for all machine guns and inreased mahcine gun damage vs aircraft would be good AA

I don't want lock-on missiles tbh

[clever vessel]

Why does everyone claim to have seen 150-200+ vehicle kill games

please i beg let me play in your servers because the average player has to be deliberately trying to lose for this to happen

Average highest I see is like 35-40 kills, 6-7 deaths, maybe 15th in a 127v127 game, and the highest i have seen is 70. And that’s with 0 deaths. It’s just not possible barring extraordinary circumstances in this game

Even the best infantryman i’ve seen has barely broken 100 at 102. 70 hours of gameplay
It’s not that it’s impossible, but that it’s totally fucking impractical. People are like ‘but the APC can kill five people a mag!’ Yeah, if they don’t heal, if all of them are finished off on time, with full accuracy. And it is not easy to do all three of those things, which means if it’s happening, that is the literal definition of watching someone playing at the peak of their skill. That isn’t something that deserves dedicated game counterplays. that is the kind of thing where it’s just skill

My opinion on the LB is just that it should be easier to find dedicated anti-air options and that they should be added to the game atm. We don’t need lock on missiles. We just need to encourage people to look up and shoot

[desert cove]

5 people a mag lmao, 4 is much more accurate. We have side arms with simmilar capability, not to mention primary weapons. 5 kills a mag is considered poor ammo economy.

[wide relic]

Next time I’m in one I’ll take a pic for you as proof

[desert cove]

Amd then there is a point of shooting vehicles. 8 shots for a jeep, with mostyl 1-2 kills. LB is 5 Helicopeter is 30 rounds, APC is 50 and tank is a staggerign 100 round for a kill or two