Vehicle - Feedback

[hollow tapir]

People won’t even leave your tank to shot down an incoming drone

Nobody is going to cover you in a 127v127 tensatown where rpgs are flying left and right

[rancid hound]

interpret?

[vital shuttle]

read the first line clown

[rancid hound]

far away = unreachable, I'm utilizing your language usage

[vital shuttle]

man can

[rancid hound]

maybe improve your english first before making a clown statement

[vital shuttle]

can't even read surprise he can drive a tank

[rancid hound]

you haven't even written down any proper argument

[vital shuttle]

Least mentally challanged tank player right here 💀

[wide relic]

Campin in spawn is exploiting that better for any class

[rancid hound]

if insult is your only defense then good luck cuz shithead like this makes me question if non testers even know what the fuck they are talking about

[vital shuttle]

I'm sorry you have a hard time reading. shoudn't have expected much looking at the profile tho.

[rancid hound]

what 💀, how is it exploiting

[wide relic]

Enemy can’t reach it by rpg soon as u enter enemy spawn u can’t fire weapon

[rancid hound]

at the end of the day nothing is accomplished because all you did is writing down shitty arguments and refuse to give proper explanation

[vital shuttle]

Bud never left his spawn so he doesn't realize there is a 10nd timer if you enter enemy territory

[rancid hound]

I don't recall you can get that many kills camping at spawn in Wakistan or any maps

[agile elk]

In my experience, for some reason abuse starts in these vehicle-related threads

[vital shuttle]

Can you repeat that in English?

[golden estuary]

Lmao every time someone posts stats it's cringe

[rancid hound]

take an English class first maybe you'll understand

[golden estuary]

Cuz tankies want to feel good with their kd.

[rancid hound]

whatever pleases you

[agile elk]

haha its me?

[vital shuttle]

so being able to go 100+ in 0 isn't an issue in your eyes?

[agile elk]

i got 130KD with tank
im tank shitter

[rancid hound]

It's a map issue

[rancid hound]

yes why?

[vital shuttle]

Then why was me going 130-10 with a vector an issue?

[rancid hound]

Never said it was

[golden estuary]

I didn't know tanks were travelling circuses packed with clowns

[rancid hound]

unless you're quoting some random ass motherfuckers show proof they said so

[golden estuary]

Tanks being clowned on by c4 isn't an issue either. Just map problem /s

[rancid hound]

how is it related to dropping high kills?

[golden estuary]

911. I'd like to report a murder.

[vital shuttle]

Actual bozo

Maybe they can give you the first ever tank skin

[rancid hound]

bro is a braindead dropout

[vital shuttle]

im thinking a clown car

[agile elk]

the problem is that any class can use the C4

[rancid hound]

arguing with newbies make me laugh every time because they don't know what the fuck they're talking about

[agile elk]

ironically the number one threat is infantry

[golden estuary]

Anyone can drive tank

[rancid hound]

maybe this skin will satisfy your infantry experience

[agile elk]

someone die soon

but good tank player as long as survive

[rancid hound]

anyone can use a gun: no problem
anyone can use a tank: big problem

[agile elk]

#1138533470348525699 message
this

it's perfectly fine for a seasoned player to hit 100KD with a tank

[rancid hound]

people will bitch about anything better than a vector or evo nowadays

[wide relic]

I mean are they doin obj or just farming kills

[rancid hound]

what do you want them to do

[vital shuttle]

Wait so tanks are better than the gun you considered the most OP thing in the game? Well case closed then

[rancid hound]

least delusional response moment

[wide relic]

Obj

[golden estuary]

If the purpose of the tank in game is to act as an explosive sniper, then why have it lmao

[vital shuttle]

why are you so opposed to a tank nerf anyways?

[golden estuary]

It boils down to, what the fuck do the devs want the tank to do, and how do they do that with the players being fucking min maxers

[rancid hound]

fire support? Ye why need it when we can have infantry to cover fire am I right mister obvious

[rancid hound]

because it's a silly nerf?

[golden estuary]

fire support lmao

[agile elk]

already weak

[rancid hound]

"explosive sniper" lmao

[vital shuttle]

how is preventing them sitting in unreachable killzone spots a silly nerf?

[wide relic]

Tanks need a hard nerf or a timer for spawn to be kicked out once u start engine

[golden estuary]

Sits far as fuck away, shooting explosive rounds, that sounds bout right. Maybe you do need some English lessons after all.

[agile elk]

I've been a tank spotter a few times and have seen tank commanders die instantly 90% of the time

[rancid hound]

because if you nerf its only ability to stay relevant and survivable left after countless nerfs then what is its point then?

[rancid hound]

you have a problem with that?

[vital shuttle]

So sitting in spawn where its physically unreachable is its only ability?

[golden estuary]

Yeah @vital shuttle, we talking to an actual clown lmao

[vital shuttle]

Like you do actually realize you have 10 seconds in enemy territory before you just get insta killed?

with C4 you can't run up

[rancid hound]

let me guess this straight you don't have an issue with snipers shitting on you past 1000m but if a tank gets you it's a big issue

[agile elk]

I'm not the best tanker, but I can confidently say I'm a good tanker
Therefore, it is hard to say that it is a vehicle that can get 100KD over without skill

[vital shuttle]

With rpg by the time you're reloaded they've already gone behind the hills again to heal back up in spawn

[golden estuary]

Chicken shitter sniper tanks running back to repair the moment a single rpg hits lmao

[rancid hound]

you realize spawns are far away from main objectives? Where most players usually concentrated?

[vital shuttle]

No cus if a sniper is shooting me from that far i can hop on sniper class and dome him back if need be

[rancid hound]

same with tanks, although less likely because it's shitty against each other

[agile elk]

Hide in the bushes, shoot the tandem and the tank will die instantly

[golden estuary]

"same", no it isn't lmao

My man truly wants to hang on to his sniper tank 😂

[rancid hound]

if you expect every motherfuckers to be able to kill a fucking tank then just fucking quit game LMAO

[golden estuary]

Imagine sucking so much you can only point and click from a safe zone

[vital shuttle]

unless tandem got nerfed last time i tried this it did 44 damage

and they just drive back of whilst im reloading

[rancid hound]

point and click doesn't give me a 106-1 game

[vital shuttle]

or i just get insta nuked by their HE round

[golden estuary]

It do if you're in a tank spamming HE from a safezone lmao

[rancid hound]

you're actually delusional

[agile elk]

shoot back

give 87 damege

[rancid hound]

bro expect to kill tank easily without it being able to retaliate or escape 🤡

[vital shuttle]

i would if i could actually hit that from where they sit

Sandy for example they will sit on the road to their spawn facing and they have the high ground as well

[rancid hound]

that wouldn't allow for a 106-1 game

[vital shuttle]

its next to impossible shooting their rear

[rancid hound]

you're fucking delusional to think tanks can be braindead easy to use and should be easy to destroy

[wide relic]

Man acting like the tank is weak lmao average infantry gets destroyed by it just stop

[golden estuary]

my man's basically misunderstanding all we want for a tank rebalance lmao

all he hears is "nerf sniper tank"

[vital shuttle]

I've litteraly done this to shut up some clown camping the tank 5 games in a row just so he couldn't use this and got a 164-0 game

first time in a tank

[golden estuary]

and not "change tank so it's more an in-fighter than a fucking explosive sniper"

[rancid hound]

"Rebalance" except all points you gave are just fucking nerf tanks which is already questionable at its core 🤡

[rancid hound]

User? Map? Region?

[rancid hound]

solutions then?

[vital shuttle]

Tensa EU

[golden estuary]

mfer really didn't listen when i said 10x hp and no zoom

[rancid hound]

what the fuck

[wide relic]

Utilize cover buildings an such

[agile elk]

It is easy to exceed 100KD in Wakistan and tansa

[rancid hound]

scoreboard?

[wide relic]

Sandy Basra

[vital shuttle]

This dude thinks everyone screenshots mid scoreboards

[golden estuary]

he wanks off his 100 kd

gets pp hard

[rancid hound]

"My dude has a 164-0 game"
"Where"
"I don't screenshot it"
Sounds similar to sources? I made it the fuck up

🤡

[vital shuttle]

I'd be ashamed of even posting a scoreboard screenshot with the tank icon next to my name

[golden estuary]

exactly, everyone knows how you got that 100kd lmao

[rancid hound]

proceed to say tanks are easy to use without giving actual sources or evidence

[golden estuary]

shooting from spawn zone? how brave 👏

[rancid hound]

You keep repeating your shit like a fucking parrot lmao

[golden estuary]

i mean, you don't care about evidence in the first place lmao

[vital shuttle]

Proceeds to say tanks are hard but gives us sourcers/evidence which state the opposite

[wide relic]

Your one to talk

[rancid hound]

I literally said it's map issue 🤡

[golden estuary]

IT TAKES SKILL OKAY MY MUM SAID SO

[rancid hound]

improve your english

[wide relic]

Y doe it bot u?

[golden estuary]

at least we understand what he's saying, and he understands what we're saying... you on the other hand.... wew

[rancid hound]

If you have given it I'd have cared

[vital shuttle]

You've got by far the most broken English i've seen today, tf you even on about?

[rancid hound]

nice reflection

[agile elk]

It's hard to fight without a spotter and hard to achieve alone

[golden estuary]

Facts: Stays far as fuck away and shoots explosive shells aka "explosive sniper"
You, the clown: lmao

[rancid hound]

maybe then go talking with your buds? We're talking with each other Mr Obvious 🤡

[golden estuary]

"maybe then go talking", go learn English bud

[vital shuttle]

"Maybe then go talking with your buds" Isn't great sentence structuring lad.

[rancid hound]

give an example to how it should be

you're diverting the main discussion

[vital shuttle]

You're the one that started about learning english

Oh and next time "Maybe then go talk with your buds" will fit a bit better

You can have that one for free

❤️

[rancid hound]

what the fuck? What should it be? You've consistently refused to give any proper solutions to back up your rant lmao

[rancid hound]

"a bit better" you have entirely restructured it to an exact different meaning lmao

Actual braindead moment

[golden estuary]

You've consistently refused to give any proper solutions to back up your rant lmao
I did, and you've chosen to ignore discard it like everyone else's comments just because they don't align to your world view

[clever vessel]

I'm really sorry but how on earth can you possibly have seen countless of tanks go 150 kills when not even regular players can manage 100 in the most insane matches I've had

But even more than that the existence of people who can do well at a thing doesn't mean that the thing is overpowered, especially when the vehicle playerbase shrinking just means the median vehicle player is better at figuring out what they're doing

[rancid hound]

"10x hp and no zoom" ye its a tank not a fucking bunker 🤡. Sorry but I dismissed it for being too shitty

Bro has a problem with tanks backing up after getting hit lmao 💀

[clever vessel]

• I have heard that anecdote... Non-stop since I joined this server. I have seen like zero evidence that it's either a common phenomenon nor its existence is in itself an issue

[vital shuttle]

The tank isn't overpowered. sitting in spawn with it whilst essentially using it as attilery is

Im all for tankers sitting on a mountain side where you could actually run up on them and actually make a play against them

just not in a safezone

[clever vessel]

what maps can people even do this on other than wine paradise?

[vital shuttle]

Sandy

tensa

[rancid hound]

"tanks are already strong af. i've seen countless players drop 150+ in 0 games, no need to buff something because some players don't know how to play it" you're literally contradicting yourself

[clever vessel]

Tensa???

[wide relic]

Basra

[vital shuttle]

Yes they are strong, but that's not the issue you whiny twat. i've litteraly said several times the safezone camping is the issue

[clever vessel]

Tensa is a flatland with almost zero elevation man the only way someone is sniping in a tank from spawn is if their team has lost incredibly badly

[vital shuttle]

I usually see them on the highway overpass thing and then dip back when they take some damage

[clever vessel]

Basra spawns are behind the elevation that would enable vehicles to shoot into safezones except for d

[rancid hound]

you fucking said they're strong, being denial much?

[clever vessel]

Is that position not frankly totally useless

[vital shuttle]

Holy shit you can't be this fucking stupid

[rancid hound]

"BuT tHaT's NoT tHe MaIn IsSuE" 🤡

[wide relic]

Only one in denial is you

[clever vessel]

They're denying the entry to spawn, while not doing anything anywhere else on the map

[vital shuttle]

no its a pretty good chokepoint and alot of people crossing the street there going on flanks to the other objectives as well

[vivid fog]

The hell is happening here

[clever vessel]

(wait in the interest of clarity could you point out the overpass I might be thinking of a different one)

[rancid hound]

sure bro, next time tells your tank bud to attack objectives instead of ughhhhh "farming kills"

[clever vessel]

Is this the E one?

[wide relic]

Na just gona c4 them so enemy can one shot them

[rancid hound]

Please give me a source of people consistently getting 150+ on a tank, I won't argue with you until you give proper sources

[vital shuttle]

yes

i think its the one of the US spawn

[rancid hound]

and then you bitched bout how they stay back instead of going forward, I'm amazed

[clever vessel]

Okay I can see that yeah

[wide relic]

Na I’m gona do it to my team if there being dumb like that

[clever vessel]

But like: using elevation as a protective shield and a vantage point is... Literally what anyone, regardless of being in a vehicle, should do

[rancid hound]

have fun with them not pushing

[clever vessel]

Plus usually that position can't reach the suburbs outside d if I'm not mistaken?

[vital shuttle]

Yeah but the thing there is there is only 1 way up you can't go on a big ish flank because its all covered by spawn territory and they just have to hold the single chokepoint

[wide relic]

I mean if there that useless an to cowardly to move forward then things need to be forced

[rancid hound]

but that's literally what they can do without dying, pass the fucking bridge and you'll see engis pouring out like fucking ants when they see flesh. Christ do you hate the fact that people want to live instead of dying like bots?

[vital shuttle]

And in the case where they do get hit 99% of the time they can easy fall back and heal up in spawn

[rancid hound]

maybe fix maps first so people don't have to camp 🤡, that I'll agree with

[vital shuttle]

Kill the engis?

[rancid hound]

None of the examples you give paint a good picture on how tanks can survive without camping well

[rancid hound]

who's gonna do it? The tanks are doing it by camping

[vital shuttle]

I thought you were such an exceptional tanker. can't deal with a bit of infantry?

[rancid hound]

Are you delusional

[vital shuttle]

Even with tanks that aren't sitting in a safezone i had a hard time to get to them because the dude on the turret is good at the game

like there is litteraly no need to sit in a safezone

[rancid hound]

"just kill em" like no shit bro except they're covered by a shit ton of bricks and angle 🤡

[vital shuttle]

you can do just as well outside of it

[clever vessel]

I can see that but like... Does this not also apply to the average infantry squad?

[vital shuttle]

only difference in a safezone you're completely void of being pushed

[clever vessel]

Yeah it's hard to kill a tank overlooking a choke in an entrenched position... But it's hard to kill anything overlooking a choke in an entrenched position

The dam on waki wouldn't be much worse just because a tank joins in on the bad choke

[rancid hound]

Wakistan is busted anyways conquest or not

[vital shuttle]

Yes but TTK on infantry squad is alot lower than a tank. there is no need for them to sit in spawn to reduce being killed down to 0% when they can still pop off roaming the map away from heavily occupied areas

[rancid hound]

You're stating the exact reason why tanks are camping

[vital shuttle]

Yes so that's an issue isn't it?

[clever vessel]

Yeah and that's what the vehicle players have been stressing, that it's unreasonably hard to roam the map period

[vital shuttle]

how is it good game design having to play against something that can't be killed

[rancid hound]

It's a map/vehicle issue

[wide relic]

Vehicle drivers i wana be indestructible

[clever vessel]

Vehicle players are still subject to the same restrictions - you can't really play too independent from your teammates, you can't play too aggressively - while also being extremely vulnerable to small amounts of infantry fire

At least before this it was mostly two shots from a tandem, now it's a one shot

[rancid hound]

when literally every motherfuckers have capabilities to destroy a tank and they can hid in a billion angles and windows then WHY SHOULDN'T THEY CAMP?

[vital shuttle]

i've had alot of good fights vs a tank squad on valley that just sit in the hills. they don't have to sit in their spawn to get a good K/D

[clever vessel]

Yeah and I'm not saying you have to either

[wide relic]

It’s not real life stop bein so afraid wit it .

[clever vessel]

I'm saying the reason they sit in spawn is because the game's current balance disincentivises them from doing anything else

[rancid hound]

"it's not real life so just go die" 🤡

[wide relic]

I’ve gone up against tanks a actualy doin what there supposed to do took 8 of us to finally take it out

[clever vessel]

Why would you waste your big tank and fun shots going into a place where you will be very vulnerable when you can passively earn a small amount of kills in the background

It's not like 10 kills Vs 1000 kills on average what I've seen is like 5 kills against 10 kills

[rancid hound]

No shit this ain't Squad nobody's gonna clear engis house to house for you

[vital shuttle]

yes and thats why spawn camping needs to be nerfed. just buffing the tank isn't gonna make people more aggresive they will still end up sitting in spawn with it just now with a stronger tank

[wide relic]

Then y wouldn’t they nerf a indestructible vehicle that bullets don’t do shit to 🤡

[rancid hound]

literally less people camped before tank nerf than now

it happened back wayyyyy before EA

[clever vessel]

Yeah but I'm saying spawn camping isn't even the problem here

[wide relic]

Just admit everything armor an map wise needs re works

[rancid hound]

once again you have shown you have zero clue about you're saying

[clever vessel]

Spawn camping is disadvantageous to both the drivers and their team - they get low kpm on average, they have no utility at all, they can't have much fun

[vivid fog]

maps like sandysunset needs some tweaks, the hills are high enough to have clear vision on half of the map

[rancid hound]

literally every maps need a rework to allow conquest flows

[clever vessel]

Spawn camping is not the cause of a problem, it's the result of the existing problem of balance

^^^^^

I'm not even a tank buff person I'm for just qol and customisation for tanks

[rancid hound]

Tanks wouldn't camp if they don't suck that much

[wide relic]

Spawn campin diffentlg is a huge problem no excuse for it

[vivid fog]

Tanks perform better at open areas

Most maps are hella urban, making it hard to predict where people will come from and blow you up

[rancid hound]

^^^^^^^^^^^

[vivid fog]

BF4 kinda got it right

golmud is one example ig

[clever vessel]

?? There are no excuses for it because it's the result of an existing problem, not the cause of other problems

[wide relic]

People defending spawn campin disgraceful 🤣😂 for any class or vehicle

[rancid hound]

BF4 is definitely not a good place to learn from when you're trying to improve and tweaking vehicles

[clever vessel]

Spawn camping doesn't really affect anything other than the team's ability to win (ergo it decreases that team's ability to win)

[vivid fog]

its the only bf game ive played

[rancid hound]

they do have one thing right which is everyone can kill each other

[wide relic]

Bf4 is a great one to learn

[vivid fog]

theres also bf3 but its been so long since

[wide relic]

I miss metro

[vital shuttle]

Yes so do what you see the tanks on valley do usually and sit on the mountains and be an overwatch for your team.

[vivid fog]

wait do we have tanks on frugis?

[vital shuttle]

you can sit far away from a fight without sitting in spawn?

[clever vessel]

You are refusing to play on objs and refusing to take power positions, it's literally just disadvantageous - and no one racks up hundreds of kills spawn camping, not unless something very wrong has happened

[rancid hound]

I'm still unsured why you have a problem with tanks not entering the shithole on objectives

[vital shuttle]

Brother just stop you've already proven that you have the most selective reading ever

[wide relic]

Cause if we don’t have something supportin infantry like there designed to what’s the point of havin them

[clever vessel]

That's the job of AFVs

[rancid hound]

being selective whilst reading your one sided shit is the most correct thing I've done today, thanks for the compliment

[clever vessel]

Tanks are breakthrough vehicles, that's why they get their higher health

[rancid hound]

literally the point of APCs, once again they're shit

either you're delusional or you haven't played the game that much

[clever vessel]

And even then the AFVs are, currently, regular one shots to any engi with a tandem

[rancid hound]

people bitch about tanks having high health? Christ what

[vital shuttle]

It's does ammuse me the single biggest ass hat on this discord is advocating for the tankers. I'm sure there is also some sane tank players tho

[wide relic]

That’s the job of armor also to take out enemy vehicles especially when enemy team armor is doin the right thing an stickin kills just go ahead an say no skill

[clever vessel]

Sorry could you like rephrase that

I do not understand

[rancid hound]

"It's does" thanks for the invalid argument

[clever vessel]

I get the tanks should be armour killer part but not the back part of the sentence

[wide relic]

Armor vs armor equal footin chances to take obj . When friendly teams doesn’t ur at an immediate disadvantage

[vital shuttle]

Delusional clown

[clever vessel]

O yeah agreed

I'm for AFV buffs tbh not tank buffs

[rancid hound]

but that's your team's issue not the mechanics' issue

[wide relic]

An who hear really likes losin to

[rancid hound]

I'm not sure if it's even valid to put it here

[clever vessel]

I think rather than a tank buff I just need the tandem to be nerfed

Or removed

[rancid hound]

thanks for the reflection, couldn't have seen it better without you mentioning it

[rancid hound]

any AT nerf is a tank buff, basically

not directly but still

[wide relic]

Tandem needs a huge buff

[vital shuttle]

I'm not sure if it's even valid to put here* once again keep working on that sentece structuring

[clever vessel]

True true

[wide relic]

The drop off for it is nasty

[opaque lily]

I support this. Wineparadise is just pure hell beause neither tank can even kill one another.

[rancid hound]

"sentece" ok fucker

[clever vessel]

Wait what do you mean it's nasty

[rancid hound]

christ just fucking stop with the insult and start giving proper solutions

[clever vessel]

That thing's only balancer is its dropoff it had better have insane bullet drop

[vital shuttle]

Missing a keystroke isn't the same as not being able to strucutre a sentence

[wide relic]

Drop off for aiming it u gota pretty much arch it at long range

[rancid hound]

"strucutre" you have spelled everything wrong consistently yeah fuck off bud

[rancid hound]

but that's exactly what makes it balanced?

[wide relic]

Yep

[clever vessel]

Also can y'all cool it a bit it's just a video game

[rancid hound]

you're bitching about tanks camping and then saying drop off is nasty?

I'm not sure if you're on the right track buddy

[vital shuttle]

It's amazing how delusional you are. meanwhile bozo takes 4 minutes to respond cus he has to spell check his shit 5 times over

[wide relic]

I’m sayin if there gona be camping in spawn more should get better counters

[vital shuttle]

and still fucks up

[clever vessel]

The tandem is unbalanced as hell and also like... It just isn't fun to have a near one shot weapon on every vehicle in the game

[rancid hound]

nice reflection

bro nobody needs to take a picture of you

[wide relic]

Only if u hit from the rear which is realistic it’s the weakest part

[vital shuttle]

You got that one in the clipboard?

[clever vessel]

Like no other game of this type has one - especially not bf

[rancid hound]

nice assumption

[wide relic]

Javelin

[rancid hound]

ye but BF has APS

[clever vessel]

But it's so insanely easy to get to the rear of an AFV on most maps

[vital shuttle]

I mean you've tried using it like 10 times now none of which succesfull unfortunately

[wide relic]

Again realistic

[clever vessel]

At the very least two hits should be a minimum

[wide relic]

It already is

[rancid hound]

none of which is succesful unfortunately*

[clever vessel]

You cannot balance a game around 'realistic'

[vital shuttle]

Not in the context of the sentence 🤡

[wide relic]

I mean they shouldn’t be indestructible

[rancid hound]

bro you're fucking clowning yourself right now just stop lmao

[rancid hound]

they aren't

[vital shuttle]

Exactly "Nice reflecting"

[wide relic]

They are sittin in spawn

An if u have a competent gunner ya ur invincible

[rancid hound]

All of the things you do is consistently giving out insults instead of giving a slight care about balancing the rant you have set out 🤡

nice try

[wide relic]

Ur one to talk

[rancid hound]

I have no rant so I don't have to give solutions

[clever vessel]

I cannot stress this enough man why is it that the options are weakening the assault vehicles or 'they are indestructible'

[rancid hound]

doesn't mean they're indestructible

[golden estuary]

just 99% of the way there /s

[wide relic]

Literally have matches 85% time top scores are the ones in vehicles actually doin obj 😆

[rancid hound]

ok?

So you're saying vehicles that don't do objectives don't stay in top scores 85% of the time? How is it a bad thing then?

[opaque lily]

You people are missing an important thing. In the games where I have gone 100+ kills in a tank with my gunner I end up still losing the game in the end through tickets. Tanks feel completely useless to the overall team and there is a deeper underlying issue with how vehicles lack objective play.

[clever vessel]

Again: Where is this even coming from???????

[rancid hound]

his asshole

[agile elk]

Isn't that just a personal feeling that you don't like vehicles?

[rancid hound]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[wide relic]

No I like tanks

[clever vessel]

If 85% of the time they are dominating the matches doing obj then there is no problem, they do not need a nerf

[rancid hound]

What we have accomplished through this discussion is nothing

[wide relic]

Highest vehicle kills is wit ether or apc

[clever vessel]

There will always be the remaining 15% via the magic of statistical probability

[rancid hound]

but that're the only combat vehicles??????????????

Like no shit Mr Sherlock

@clever vessel pack things up we're leaving

[wide relic]

Yep when the other team just sits like cowards Fermin kills in spawn cause they to cowardly

U dumb

[rancid hound]

Literally have matches 85% time top scores are the ones in vehicles actually doin obj 😆
Yep when the other team just sits like cowards Fermin kills in spawn cause they to cowardly

Please reflect your statements, have a nice day

[clever vessel]

Man I'm not even mad rn I am just confused

You cannot simultaneously have a vast majority of matches where vehicles are doing their jobs and well and also a significant glut of players who refuse to do their job

Those two things do not coexist

[wide relic]

It can when one team is doin one thing the other isn’t

[wide relic]

I’m more talking about the spawn campin

On one side

One team does it when the other doesn’t

[rancid hound]

source: my asshole

[clever vessel]

As in they get pushed back and instead of pushing forwards they sit in defensive positions and refuse to move up

[wide relic]

Na from start

An when does not push on the closet one

[clever vessel]

So they will always sit in defensive positions faraway from objs where they are functionally useless

[wide relic]

Yep

[clever vessel]

That's not even something you could solve with tank balancing you solve that with a report for griefing lmfao

[wide relic]

True but when it’s almost every match something gotta happen

[rancid hound]

buff tanks so they can go without dying upon arrival, I've said that over and over again

[clever vessel]

Again: I ain't see no tanks doin this every match, what I do see are tanks and AFVs who push forward, are quickly destroyed, and can never reconstitute as part of any major combat on most maps

[wide relic]

Gues I just got shit luck

[clever vessel]

Guess you do, yeah

[opaque lily]

Make vehicle respawns be tied to objectives, yet go a step further and not let people spawn in the tank from the deployment screen unless they contributed to the objective. Either from getting kills, reviving, capturing, defending from the objective.
Maybe this is a shit suggestion but whatever.

[clever vessel]

Honestly? Not a bad idea ngl

[vivid fog]

I can see a lot of people not liking this

Restriction isnt fun

[clever vessel]

Oh wait actually the tying being able to use a vehicle to objs might not really work at all

Like it’ll either be too restrictive or not really a thing

I do like the idea of doing more stuff like waki F, give people vehicle spawns when they cap an obj

Makes different feeling conq maps

[eternal turret]

More like 60-0 maximum if you're playing extremely well. You can get more than that if you play more aggresively but if enemy team isn't full of pepegas you will die.

[desert cove]

I seen maybe half a dozen, and I am here from February. Before EA there was no 150-0 game. Idk what game you play, but there is no countless tank games with those scores.

Yeah, let's make tham even easier to destroy. 127vplayers running with C4, so let's make them immobile

LMAO

Snipers are lowest skill celling, suciside C4 also, claymore spam. Tanks have relatively low skill celling, right, but that only fault of thier poor design. They have high skill floor tho. Most players takes tank and dies without making 10 kills.

[rancid hound]

tanks definitely need buff, just not as much as APCs

APCs need a whole rework

[desert cove]

LMAO, no. Have you even played vehicles? APC turns around slower than RPG reloads. You can't even run away without showing your ass to reloaded RPG.

[rancid hound]

pretty sure he's talking bout tanks, which is false btw

[vivid fog]

if only i can reliably test the vehicles but we dont have em in the polygon

[desert cove]

Mostly qol tho

[vivid fog]

and when i do want to try and drive it, someone else is already in the tank

[rancid hound]

not really, gameplay wise the movement and aiming system is kinda shit

the aim drop is on fix list yet we see nothing coming into fruition, yet

also tanks shouldn't be able to oversteer

[desert cove]

Movement is tied to physics, Oki will do it, in future, aiming is under qol imo

[vivid fog]

ive tried playing the tank exactly once

it was in lonovo

[rancid hound]

idk it's not like cosmetics on normal scope the thing actually HAS a function to tell you where to aim, which it fails

[vivid fog]

is it just me or are the tanks slippery

[rancid hound]

yup

it's slippery as hell

[vivid fog]

roads are made of ice

[rancid hound]

reverse speed is abysmal

[vivid fog]

even the dirt

[rancid hound]

@desert cove well I regret saying shit because now we witness the arrival of vehicle haters

[desert cove]

It took them some time

[rancid hound]

now they're here, oops

[desert cove]

But as expected, all takes are bad, and can be invalidate by an few hours of gameplay

[rancid hound]

^^^^^

words worth less than experience

[supple mauve]

It should be obvious that safe zones for vehicles where they can shoot out of shouldn't exist and it's only a matter of time until they are removed.

[desert cove]

It should be also obvious, that this safe zone is integral part of the map, put in place to prevent spawn camping. It makes both infantry and vehicles invincible in their main base, so other players don't camp it.

You wan't to be able to spawn camp, if you are advotating for it's removal?

[cedar ember]

Pretty far off base with what is wrong wth the game vehicle wise.

[supple mauve]

Safe zones can still exist without vehicles being able to shoot out of them.

[desert cove]

You can't shoot, heal, repair and use gadgets in safe zone. It affects all players indiscriminately

[cedar ember]

To start... I highly doubt your example here is real. In general the large majority of tank players have a kpm between 1.2 and 1.6, which is crazy low. This means they don't get 150 kills a game.

Second, the reason tanks (and APCs) camp is because they can't survive anywhere else.

Third, HE rounds have insane drop off and travel time. It actually takes quite a bit of skill to use a tank at range.

Fourth, tank AP and HE rounds do less damage than a tandem and move slower.

Fifth, vehicles have no staying power. This is another, lesser, reason tanks camp, because they need to return to base to rearm every 3 minutes.

Sixth, if you make tanks squishier, they will camp harder. Case in point, after the APC change, people camp even more crazy in them.

[desert cove]

Picking 0.1% of players, performing well on a specific map(waki, azagor) , only to make a point is expected

[supple mauve]

Not quite sure if you get the point right now - there exists two kind of zones in Battlebit. The "safe zone", where you cannot go as an enemy, because you will die in 10 seconds and you cannot shoot while in it, and the "base zone", where even allies are unable to shoot. I am talking about the first one.

[desert cove]

I get your point perfectly, but safe zone is in main base proper.

Base zone is blue/red zone

That's what it's called in game

[supple mauve]

Semantics. Tanks shouldn't be able to shoot out of them regardless.

[desert cove]

But they can take damage there

You can still shoot at them

And kill them

[supple mauve]

In theory you can, in practice they will just retreat back to base.

[cedar ember]

Enemy safe zone camping is already out of control. If you didn't let tanks or infantry fire from their safe zone it would cause a very very very unhealthy meta where the first side to successfully set up a camping point on the enemy spawn wins.

[desert cove]

That's a price you pay for pushing right up to enemy spawn point

You really want to kill players on thier spawn don't you?

[supple mauve]

I am talking about tanks. Whether infantry can fire out of it is another question.

[supple mauve]

So what price does the tank pay for being able to shoot across half the map while staying in the safe zone?

[cedar ember]

Do you have any idea the vehicle cheese that is possible camping safe zone lines? It's actually crazy.

[supple mauve]

It's not.

[desert cove]

They can't, there is no map that allows it. Even azagor, a small map doesn't allow it

Only exemption is salhan, but tanks in salhan are a mistake, and they even shouldn't be added there

[cedar ember]

Objectively you are very wrong, sorry. Please get more experiences with the game... Not trying to be mean, but this is a well known issue.

[desert cove]

That's just bias

[supple mauve]

Not an argument.

[desert cove]

"I can do that but you cant'!"

[desert cove]

But a necesity in your case

[cedar ember]

It's not an argument because what I said is factual, and there are many discussions in this very discord going over spawn line vehicle cheese campers.

[supple mauve]

That is another problem that has nothing to do with vehicles being able to fire out of their base zone.

[wide relic]

🤣 people in here trying to vailidate vehicle spawn campin pathetic

[desert cove]

Not validate, this problem exists only on Salhan, no other map allows you to camp from spawn. Shooting at point A/F from 100m away is not camping and inf does the same

[supple mauve]

Valley allows it too.

[wide relic]

It exists on all maps I’ve played in valey especially

[desert cove]

No, there is no line of sight outside of first point

First point is just to close

[cedar ember]

If they can't fire from in their spawn, the issue with spawn line camping is compounded heavily.

Also.... The ONLY, And I mean ONLY time firing from your spawn is viable is when the enemy has pushed up to it. What you are saying is that once the enemy gets to your spawn, you want the other team to simply lose, because they won't be able to answer the people dug in right outside their spawn.

[desert cove]

But range is so close that you can hit vehicles with tandems

100m max, from blue zone to a point

that's not camping

that's normal engagement

Camping would be if you cluld kill people on the other side of map while staying in blue zone

Like in Salhane

[supple mauve]

Incorrect. There is a hill where they can fire far beyond E.

[desert cove]

show me

Video, picture anyrhing

Prove your statement

[cedar ember]

Wait... You guys are arguing that vehicles shouldn't be able to fire from their spawn because of two maps??? Did it every occur to you that maybe, just maybe, those two maps need to be fixed to make sniping within the spawn lines impossible.

And fwiw, deep enough into spawn, your guns don't work at all.

[supple mauve]

If they fix the maps to not allow it, that's fine too.

Effect is the same, I don't see the problem?

[cedar ember]

The effect... Wouldn't be the same. One stops an abusive strategy, one stops an abusive strategy, but supports and even more abusive strategy.

[desert cove]

the problem is that you wan't to remove players option to contest first points on all maps, without dying like ducks, because of two old and poorly designed maps

[cedar ember]

Exactly

[supple mauve]

You are putting words in my mouth now, lol. As I said, if they fix the maps, that's fine too. It is a problem right now, however.

[desert cove]

No it's not, inconvinience for soome at best. Problem? definetly not

[supple mauve]

Vehicles in general are underpowered right now, besides the tank camping and the little birds.

[desert cove]

Kriss vector before nerfs WAS a problem

[desert cove]

Fair statement, LB is a weird case tho

[supple mauve]

This channel is for any problems, regardless of how large they are.

[cedar ember]

We're are saying that your first suggested fix would have far reaching impact on the game. The enemy going after your first point and camping it is ALREADY a common strategy. Imagine if you had to get your vehicles all the way out of your spawn lines, without dying (hard enough to do in these situations already) and then try to fight off the campers who have dug in with C4 And RPG.

To help you here, it wouldn't be good,

[desert cove]

Your problem is more of a map design issue so https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1019642813576646767 would be more appropriate

[cedar ember]

Honestly, little birds are the closest thing we have to balance. The only issue with them is that their only counter is the Apache. Too few things that can hurt them. Allowing a Jeep with a flak based gun would add in enough counterparty to balance the little birds.

At the same time a flak gun would make Apaches a joke lol... Their tail rotors are just too weak.

[supple mauve]

I would't call them the closest thing to balance right now, but I agree with the other points.

Especially since some maps don't even have the apache, but the little bird

[cedar ember]

Fair, why we need a light vehicle anti air

Mainly so the air can still try to fight them, that's why it shouldn't be heavy

[supple mauve]

If they didn't buff the light vehicle damage, and made it so the 7M could angle up further, it would already be a good counter

But now little birds just shred them

[cedar ember]

I could agree with that.

And I just mean the little bird has the fewest problems balance wise. It just needs a minor tweak, with humvs getting a minor buff to firing arc.

Apache Def needs love though. Small arm fire should do MUCH less damage. And the tail rotor mechanic needs to go. Instead, give it a point where upon taking damage it starts the spin crash thing. But you can still blow it up in the fall animation.

[rancid hound]

zero conquest maps allow for the so call "camping from spawn" and at the same time enables the ability to look down to infantry concentrations larger than a group 3 or objectives farther than first point so the camping argument is invalid

unless the enemies are stupid enough to push and die of course

[wide relic]

I can’t wait tell actually anti air as a counter

[desert cove]

Salhan tho

It is possible

But, vehicles on salhan is a joke

[rancid hound]

Salhan doesn't have tanks anymore

but yeah its design core is shitty

[eternal turret]

WineParadise lets you fire from blue zone quite far too but it's not an invincible spot.

[rancid hound]

it doesn't allow for the so call "camp and farm"

most enemies are at C, B or E iirc (the middle row) and they are heavily urbanized so definitely not an easy farm

still nice map tho

[cedar ember]

The difference between CAN camp and is effective

[desert cove]

It will change nothing, helis are already very easy to counter, if you can't do it now, i suppose you will also struggle if there was AA

[fair folio]

Oki... Can you please remove the smoke from the front of camera when APC is damaged? There's nothing more annoying.
Also extremally anoying is when APC can't simply crash wrecks of cars or other light vehicles but can smash hescos easly 😄

[clever vessel]

honestly it's not even like a serious argument it's just a myth advanced to invent a reality where the problem with vehicles is that they are powerful and players simply don't use them 'honorably enough'

like i can explain it over and over but in the end the problem with vehicles is that they are theoretically powerful but aren't, and yet already have counters developed for their theoretical power

there are no 150-0 kill tanks just casually lurking about on every conquest server, there isn't a plague of players psychopathically obsessed with refusing to use AFVs and tanks anywhere usefully, there's just weak tools with lots of theoretical power

'tanks are currently overpowered' no you're thinking of 'more powerful than infantry', which, they should be. they are fucking tanks. how are you supposed to use them for any breakthrough purpose otherwise

the same goes for AFVs but i've repeated myself enough

[desert cove]

That's very nice way to describe it

And accurate

[clever vessel]

and a bit off topic: i'm extremely confident that even in the scenario where the devs unironically decide to waste lots of dev time shrinking all of the map safe zones based on little statistical evidence, that actually won't change the feelings of these people on vehicles in this game

this is like offering vibes as a solution for game balance. this whole thing is arguing for the 'good vibes'

[desert cove]

I would like to add, that a lot of players are confusing "annoying" with overpowered. They will get killed by a AV once or twice and they scream "tank op nerf it", while doing exactly the same thing that get them killed in the first place

[clever vessel]

anyways to end this off rather than continue to belaber this: here's a condensed list of my own suggestions, overlapping with others:

• add buildable supply points at set places in all conquest objs
• add resupply points at all vehicle spawns in conquest
• engineer instant entry and exit from tanks (apparently this is already under development, thanks devs)
• increase repair speed from repair tools, and also allow players to use repair tools in base
• cut the tandem from the game
• add coax guns to the AFVs
• remove the DPI restrictions on turret movement (just do an independent sensitivity control)
• let players spawn in AFVs (and transport helos) at any point on the map, not just nearby spawn and objs
• remove C4 from medics

I'd say more about helos but I think the above comments scattered throughout the thread have covered it in better detail and have better ideas based on their experience of the vehicle class

[cedar ember]

Helis are actually really really close

[wide relic]

I’m good with that as long as they keep sucide c4

[clever vessel]

suicide c4 is a human right tbh

also it'd be hilarious watching human waves of suicide c4 running after a tank

[wide relic]

I’ve actually done it wit a squad before 😂 we killed the tank pretty sure the tank also got a lot of kills from it to

[clever vessel]

based af

[rancid hound]

couldnt agree more especially the tandem

[cedar ember]

They should mount tandems to light vehicle instead. At the same time, give us vehicle load outs so we don't need 7 types of humve spawned, only to have half of them ignored.

[crude anvil]

I think tandem is fine conceptually but I don’t know how I feel about it being able to instantly kill APCs, and this is coming someone who plays engineer and hunts vehicles for fun. I feel like it’s a kind of lose-lose situation: APCs are fast enough that if you don’t kill them instantly, they can just zoom away and repair and you’re left with nothing to show for your wasted rocket. On the other hand, being one-hit instantly by some engineer in a random window can’t feel good for the APC driver. I’m not sure what the solution is.

[rancid hound]

yea as someone who loves driving apcs the constant threat of being potentially blown up in one shot from some guy you didnt even see is really annoying

the vehicle already has a ton of downsides and thats one it doesnt need to have

on the topic of apcs there needs to be some incentive to actually ride them as a passenger

currently its not a very great form of transport

its ok at best

but humvees are faster and there are more so people use those instead

and those arent pitch black inside

the only reason youd go in a btr is if ur driving

or quickly deploying then getting out

at the very least it should get a spotter seat like the tanks have

[desert cove]

Heat 3 or 2 shots APC this is a low amoutn of shots, every engi have at least 4 of them

Tandem can be effectively removed from the game, and it would work well

Tank takes 5 from the side, seema fair

First 2 days after ea releas, when nobody had a tandem unlocked, was probably best time I had in the game

You could easily die when outplayed or when you did something stupid

[rancid hound]

if APCs ever get advanced ammo option only AP should do damage to vehicles, 5 against APC, 1 against tank to be fair. Because otherwise there's no point using tank because you can just gun down people in vehicle easiers

[desert cove]

I had differen idea but ok

4 to apc, 2 tank fron, 3 side, 4 rear, HE deals half its current damage to softskins

[rancid hound]

DPS of APCs on vehicle needs to be lower than tank

[desert cove]

It will always be

[rancid hound]

HE should do 0 damage to anything above APC

[desert cove]

Yes

He only jeep, helis, boats

Half current one

[rancid hound]

rof is already like 200, making it 4 against APCs won't do shit

[crude anvil]

The real question I have is what the hell should be done with the little bird to make it less of an unkillable monster.

[rancid hound]

little bird feels weightless, which is annoying. The rest is ok

[desert cove]

Little bird is easy to kills

Seriously, people just don't shoot at it

[rancid hound]

I don't have problems with LB since most users don't know how to fly

[desert cove]

I see LB 30m above ground, gunning down infantry while NO ONE is shooting at it

[rancid hound]

Wakistan moment

[crude anvil]

It is absolutely not easy to kill. Any sort of skilled pilot will be flipping and flying around fast enough and far enough away that it’s hard to land bullets on it, much less an RPG.

[rancid hound]

LB only needs movement nerf, a slight one imho. It feels way too weightless for its size and potential

[crude anvil]

It’s not always hard to kill, but there are a lot of pilots who can use it in a way that makes them incredibly difficult to deal with.

[rancid hound]

what seems to bother me is how most vehicles stop within 5 meters upon keystroke release except for wheeled ones, not sure what's the intention

sure momentum plays a role but so should tanks and helis

tanks seem to just stop dead after releasing WASD, same with helis they stop entirely and fall down

[desert cove]

Vehicles physics sucks, just that

[rancid hound]

well can't disagree

[hollow tapir]

Pressing spacebar helps the apc slowing down

But I agree it sucks wanting to slow down with the apc and it’s still going forward

[rancid hound]

^

[lusty ember]

Vehicles need their own controls.

[eternal turret]

If you have a couple guys shooting a little bird you can destroy it pretty easily, or a very good tanker who can hit it with AP.

[rancid hound]

yeah helis i think should idle in the air instead of going down
you can just hold s to go down anyways

[tacit dagger]

These were my thoughts on it. #1138533470348525699 message

The key thing is that it’s too agile for what’s supposed to shoot it down.

But it’s only that way at the upper skill level. By putting an inverse relationship between speed and agility, it becomes far more difficult to maneuver the helicopter like a ufo.

[desert cove]

Little Bird is strong onyl when 0.01% of player base is usning it, other wise it can't do shit

[tacit dagger]

Yeah that’s why the change would barely affect anyone who isn’t using the thing to it’s max. It brings down the capability ceiling while leaving the floor where it is

That’s also why I think lock ons and counter measures are a bad idea. Either you do the battlefield thing where they always hit unless countered, or the missile has 0 chance of hitting them anyways but it is divine retribution to new pilots

I’ll also note that flight model design is really hard. Like, it’s stupendously hard if you don’t have a really good understanding of dynamic system theory. So that’s why having this based off a variable (absolute value of air speed) and a dependent function (max rotational speed based off air speed) is probably the best way to do this. It’s not a magic bullet but it’s a lot simpler than the alternatives.

[cedar ember]

I wouldn't mind helicópteros getting a little less arcady for flight, then we can make them stronger and keep it balanced

[glad breach]

please change the rhib minigun placement or something. you cant see where you are driving with someone on the gun

[magic ingot]

the worst part about vehicles imo is getting knocked in random directions when hit making it impossible to control

[desert cove]

That's only APC thing tho

And it's a bug, it's worked on, but not high priority

[agile elk]

fucking spin

[thorny mason]

imo shooting out of a helicopter should apply it's velocities to the projectile fired (except RPGs)

[golden estuary]

no one's gonna hit shit 😂

gameplay vs realism

[thorny mason]

less about realism

[golden estuary]

and why RPGs as an exception lol

[thorny mason]

it feels like heli miniguns either already do this or shoot ahead of the end of the barrel, but bullets fired from passenger weapons tend to clip into fast moving helis unless fired at really, really tight angles

rpg's because a little bird with grenadiers on bench is already super deadly and shouldn't really be made easier imo

[golden estuary]

Littlebirds vs 1 AUG boi

[torpid elk]

i feel like if the respawn timers were not so atrocious people wouldnt feel so bad about dying in them and would take more risks. however, the respawn timer is also a part of balance so... i was thinking maybe if vehicles were purchased using squad points? that way it doesnt feel so bad to get instantly popped but there is still a cost to it that can be used to dial back people from just flooding the map with tank after tank.

squad points overall need a rework though imo. conceptually they are fine but the whole system either floods you with more than you know what to do with or you end up starving and getting nothing. instead of leaders marking points to attack or defend as a group often it is better to just sit and look at your map and let your squad spread out everywhere and just switch objectives right when it is about to be captured with a squad member on it. it isnt really rewarding coordination

[opaque lily]

The miniguns on the transport helicopter need a damage buff and a definite adjustment to the damage drop off against infantry at long range. You can take more damage from fall damage from just casually running around than a hit from a minigun when it zips you. They also do nothing against armor, so even the basic medic armor is 2+ hitmarkers, ontop of the already seeminly 6+ hits it reqires to down a target.

With that said, I have gone 2 game in a row now with a chopper crew and survived the whole game without being shot down. The first map was on isle, where I destroyed 3 transport choppers, 3 littlebirds, 4 attack boats, 2 jetskies, 2 rib boats and maybe 10 infantry on the ground and vigorusly defended our home objective on F, Despite all this we still lost the game by <300~ tickets.

Surely with all these vehicle assets killed there should be a win for us though? The next game I did much of the same on Wineparadise without getting shot down. Maybe 40+ kills total with large number of assets killed. We won, but I question how much of our seeminly huge contribution to our team actually contributed towards the win. Even with all the drop offs and backcaps. It honestly seems like what wins games is a cohesive frontline with revives rather than capturing objectives and vehicles are ultimateyl useless to the overall team, like snipers.

kill/death tickets mean everything, when what it really should be is who is holding the objectives that decides who wins the game.

[clever vessel]

First: we salute a committed chopper squad o7 nicely done

Second: really agree with this - when your team has a properly cohesive frontline it makes all the difference; vehicles can/should be the differential that really pokes holes in defenses and team lines, but i think we can all agree that currently even when vehicles do well K/D wise they’re pretty often entirely immaterial to the movement of the frontline

Have had really good apc and tank games, but their being ‘good’ is so contingent on them not actually participating in the fight - i’m racking up 10 kills on this squad on tensa C from down the road, but it’s not actually contributing significant attrition; numbers-wise, my kpm on average in infantry is about 1.4 - kpm in APCs and tanks is about 0.8.

But the key thing for me is that in a less clearly objective sense, if a tank is destroyed, it’s very often players just don’t realize it’s been destroyed. General impact is low (because of things we’ve talked about before) and so performing well or performing badly looks about the same in terms of the median match - worth noting, in my experience at least, it’s about as common to see humvees in the top 30 in 127v127 as it is to see any assault vehicle, despite the fact they are one shots. What this suggests to me at least is that their behaviors are currently about similar, which, is really bad - the transport vehicle that has a gun should be occupying a very different position in the game from the assault vehicle

[torpid elk]

The problem is how frontlines develop in this game and how the game incentivises attacking/defending

simply put, attacking is easier and had more reward than defending. With how spawning currently works a single person can deny an entire point from being spawned on by a team leaving a defending point to rely exclusively on those already there and any players who spawn on squad members there when they die. By the time any reinforcements arive the attackers are likely to have just washed over the defenders like a wave and then they just revive all their buddies that died in the attack.

when outnumbered 2 to 1 or worse (as often happens because of how fast zergs move in this game) you cant waste time hoping someone picks you up. You need to spawn as fast as possible and keep shooting

So, vehicles end up being force multipliers for defenders rather than risky deathtraps you throw at the enemy to break through frontlines simply because they are too expensive to risk that way and wont reward enough.

You sit at the back of the map and flatten any backcapper you stumble across hiding in a bush and take cross-map potshots like a sniper. If you get hit you retreat and repair because losing the vehicle means its gone for like 2 minutes

[clever vessel]

agreed on all counts. I'd also add that atm the game has this immense sense of myopia thanks to how powerful the median infantryman is (especially considering the median infantryman is currently a medic); you can run very fast while carrying very powerful explosive and regenerative kit, and extremely potent weapons that work well at the most common ranges where fights will happen. The opposite is true for the experience of defending any place, with little incentive whatsoever especially in the case of basra, where i've experienced all too often individuals just waltzing onto A/B/D/E without contest and being absolutely impossible to find or challenge, especially when you can't spawn on any point which is contested

this isn't a specific vehicle discussion anymore so typically i'd have this in conquest but as you said it really impacts how vehicles play. When not even the infantry are encouraged to cooperate and ptfo there's no chance the vehicles are going to, because vehicles' use will be (and currently is) determined by the movement of infantry

it's not simply that engineers are responding to vehicles in wild packs of dozens of he and tandem rpgs, it's that engineers are currently just in wild packs of dozens of he and tandem rpgs as a default

and like: this doesn't benefit the average squad! but there is literally near zilch incentive to play with your squad. You don't get extra points sans the respawns. You don't earn anything significant helping one another. The squad point system which needs to incentivise this currently doesn't have things that encourage squads to work together - it just has independent fortifications and a fun ammo box. The game, as it currently stands, lacks cohesion at any level, which also affects the further balancing of everything around it

[torpid elk]

Imo, most of the major balance problems of the game right now stem from a combination if the current pace of the game and the spawning mechanics. There is very little room for effective defensive play currently and trying to use vehicles offensively tends to just throw them in the trash.

if we want vehicles to be more effective at attacking then they need to be made either cheaper to lose and more common or more durable (the wrong choice imo, it would just make them even better at defending which they are already alright at and encourage them to still sit at the back of the map)

[torpid elk]

Agreed, squad points and other systems and elements relating to squads needs a serious looking into. It is goofy that the most effective way to get squad points is for your squad to scatter across the whole map and for the leader to switch objectives to whichever point is about to be captured for a free 100

[clever vessel]

oh absolutely agreed tbh. but it also relates back to lots of the vehicle convos we've had over this now, where the discussion seems to position vehicles as being totally independent of the infantry and like:

we need one of two things. It's either, we rebalance the game generally to accomodate these weaker vehicles, whether as you said via making them way cheaper to lose/common (which actually sounds like a really good idea) or we need these vehicles to also function independently in the current system. But either way, the current system makes vehicles a fun bonus, like in CoD Ground War, rather than an actual real fighting force

[rancid hound]

currently vehicle gameplay contributes absolutely nothing to the team effort due to how glassy it is

3 hits you have to go home, no more supporting

[torpid elk]

Assuming squad points gets some rework, i think making vehicles able to be spawned in exchange for them could be a way to try and fix multiple problems at once.

vehicles will become more common and disposable which means you can use them proactively rather than playing them with extreme caution.

squads could reactively use vehicles to attack or defend points too because they could become something you can expect to have available instead if "oops, btr dead. No more btr for 2 minutes"

And it becomes a way to also incentivise primarily vehicle players to contribute to objectives as it enables them to keep using vehicles should they take an unlucky tandem to their ass or such

[torpid elk]

Personally, glassy is fine if not for the fact that it can mean no tank/btr for several minutes straight.

they can contribute a lot. A btr with an attacking force can really kick some ass with the splash damage and make taking a point easy. The problem is that losing it means you are set back several minutes until it respawns

[torpid elk]

On the topic of cheap to lose and common vehicles, another complaint i have about squad spawning that sort of ties into vehicles is how useless transport vehicles feel outside of helis

i rarely see a humvee or atv used for transportation outside of the first few minutes of the game!

[clever vessel]

MAKE TRANSPORT VEHICLES SPAWNABLE INSIDE AT ALL TIMES. gotta say it nonstop

[torpid elk]

We have literally dozens of humvees on some maps and on average only like 1 or 2 are in use at any given moment because you can just spawn in on a random squadmate close to where you want to go

[clever vessel]

it's such a tremendous, monumental thing that could make even an afv that dies in three minutes so incredibly useful

[torpid elk]

I dont see a squad getting into a humvee and driving off to some point. I see a single guy driving off in it alone because his squad is all in combat or not near where he wishes to be

[clever vessel]

also on this!! the fate of 80% of transport vehicles as it stands is to be used once and then discarded

between the fact it's extraordinarily easy to get them stuck on weird glitch spots and the lack of player usage, the most useful thing they do on average is be abandoned on the edge of the safe zone or near an obj to provide a spawn point, which while useful, should not be their god damn job

squads should feel encouraged to get into these vehicles together and to keep using them till destruction, and as it stands right now squads don't even currently feel encouraged to play together half the time

[torpid elk]

Sunderers. Planetside has some good ideas. I mentioned sunderers a few times in spawning mechanics discussions. They are a pretty decent alternative to squad spawning that allows convenience while also avoiding the "motherfucker sitting in a bush shitting out 7 guys every 8 seconds" problem we currently have.

big, hard to conceal, somewhat fragile, but also extremely rewarding when positioned juuuust right

[clever vessel]

this is the one thing this game has from the battlefield games that i completely disagree with: I do not believe we should be able to spawn on any friendly at any place so long as they're out of combat. It's not merely an extremely convenient option compared to literally anything else, it's an option that destroys the utility of transport vehicles and encourages the snowbally, hyper-concentrated frontlines of this game

[torpid elk]

You see a sunderer and like every tank, engineer, and turret on the field will start taking potshits at it. You manage to sneak on through withiut being noticed or survive tbe attention and get one placed close enough and in a good spot and hooo boy you just turned to tides of battle

[clever vessel]

this is honestly another thing we could tie to squad points imo

[torpid elk]

There are no supply lines or reinforcements squads can do daring raids on! Its just people popping out if thin air at the frontline!

imagine if, for a moment, instead of squad spawning people took humvees to the front. There would be actual reward to sneaking to the backlines and mining the roads!

[torpid elk]

One idea i toyed with is make it so humvees can have rally beacons installed onto them. As long as the engine is off and it is stationary squad members can spawn on it

[clever vessel]

and even more than all of that: this would be so cool

currently, everyone's experience of the game is roughly the same. The coolest things you can do in battlebit are like, just killing lots of people really fast or getting a multikill. And that not only limits the kinds of fun people can have, both for infantry and vehicles, but kills the kind of fun moments that really make games like this shine.

but this kind of thing can make it so even theoretically simple things could be cool. You drove a car your squad worked for together through enemy lines and set up a really good spawn point and now you're watching the slow trickle of points come in as the little blue arrows spill out and start encircling the enemy. That is fucking cool. that's more cool things to do than just kill people better, and it encourages more people to do a wider variety of things, and try a wider variety of strategies

the rendezook isn't cool merely because of how difficult it is, and how improbable it is, you've just defeated one of the most untouchable things on the battlefield by an incredibly unlikely means! that shit is cool. you'll wanna keep playing jets just to look for cool shit like that again

[brittle zephyr]

With the recent vehicle XP changes, i've noticed that people will intentionally bail from quads + jeeps so that the person about to finish off their vehicle doesn't get any XP for destroying it. Because the time it takes for a C4 or Rocket to actually fire/explode is more time than it takes for someone to bail a full jeep, meaning you lose out on that XP gain.

[granite whale]

There should absolutely be a cool down time for xp gain from vehicles. If someone was in it at least ten seconds ago, you should get experience.

[brittle zephyr]

Marking a vehicle lasts after people bail it, so I don't see why XP can't follow something like that. 🙂

[vital thunder]

I would really like to see the fast attack vehicle (FAV) and desert patrol vehicle (DPV) added to this game

both vehicles feature a front facing gun for the passenger seat and gunner turret in the back

[wide relic]

U mean the dune buggi

[vital thunder]

yeah I think dune buggies would feel great in this game lol

[torpid elk]

it would force them to add suspension to the game 🤔

[desert cove]

FAV? What's that?

[rancid hound]

jeep with big gun

or quad with big gun

something like this

but yeah I don't think it'll be good people are already exposed enough in humvees

[ivory quest]

Tanks should automatically restock the machinegun ammo in base like the APCs do and spotters should receive double the points for a kill since they are doing gods work

or allow us to reload the mg from the tank in base

[rancid hound]

APCs don't automatically get ammo refilled

[ivory quest]

in base when restocking they do

[rancid hound]

it's a fast restock not an instant one

also I'm not sure what do you mean by "automatically restock" everything is refilled at base

[ivory quest]

like when I shoot 24 bullets still got 6 bullets left in mg in tank it doesn't automatically restock in spawn and u are not allowed to reload it till u leave the save zone

in apc if u shoot 18 times it just restocks in spawn no problem

[rancid hound]

oh yeah you cant reload coax at base i got you now

[desert cove]

Imo, what's the point even? Maps are small, and only half of thier area is playable. It would be open as fuck, easy to snipe, shoot at players. Quad and Jeeps alredy have enough mobility for even the bigger maps.

And MRAPs will be added

[rancid hound]

just like I said?

[desert cove]

Yeah, but more?

[eternal turret]

please fix rpg splash damage...

[rancid hound]

no hit sound, no hit indicator, on fire

this game is amazing

[eternal turret]

twitch skins will fix the game...

[desert cove]

This is Larry's job, don't blame him for game design and balance. He does amazing models and all the community and event things and more.

[granite whale]

Honestly for a 3 person team this game has a ridiculous amount of content

[desert cove]

Yeah, though the quality of it is questionable

[eternal turret]

Honestly the game's pretty much unplayable now since the healing buffs to every class.

Not only does everybody still have C4, there's more engineers than ever now and I get hit by RPGs I can't even see due to splash damage.

I'll just go back to TF2 until devs sort their shit out. It's just been a horrible experience. 3D spotting that gives wallhacks to the entire team, 50 engineers with tandems, 500ms TTK C4, getting stuck every 5 seconds in terrain, no driver lock so can't go out to repair vehicle, having to go back to base everytime I take damage because tandem is broken, can't repair to full so repair is useless, and especially the RPG splash damage makes things unplayable, like look at this shit this was a TANDEM.

[patent edge]

people arent just gonna not take the sole utility they can take that enables them to not be sitting ducks against tanks lol

[desert cove]

But there is a point where there is just too much of it for the gameplay to be fun

And we are there

[patent edge]

i agree the amount of c4 u cant take should be reduced but it shouldnt not be able to kill tanks

[eternal turret]

it's not fun and they should just remove vehicles from the game already.

[desert cove]

I mean, yeah. But ammount of C4 isn't that big of a problem. How fast you can kill vehicles with it is. How far you can throw it, how hard it is to counter it.

You can run up to a tank, throw 4 c4 from 10m away and detonate it without taking dmg yourself and tank can do nothing becouse it didn't even hear you

[eternal turret]

Not to mention you can even throw C4 from under a bridge to the tank on top of it, or suicide rush with a C4 car which can be very hard to see coming until it's too late.

[desert cove]

And if it did, you it will still die, because when you hear footsteps, you are alredy dead. There is no time to react

[desert cove]

Unironicly, game would be better without them

[eternal turret]

yeah why even bother. or just make it transport vehicles only.

[desert cove]

Becouse I highly doubt that Oki will buff them to the point of enjoyable gameplay

[patent edge]

i really wanna say 2 words which im not allowed to in these threads that start with s i

[desert cove]

You would be wrong tho

[eternal turret]

I wish it was just a skill issue, then I would actually be having fun.

[desert cove]

Unless you can prove that you are very good player

I can wait

[patent edge]

yes but surely just position better

if it was unplayable people wouldnt play them

[eternal turret]

yes bro just position around the 5m splash range tandems that can hit you through walls

[patent edge]

tandems have 0 splash lmao

[eternal turret]

and that's how I know you don't play vehicles

[desert cove]

"just position better" , "follow infantry" , "work with other player", "skill issue"
Shit everyone who doesn't play vehicles says

[patent edge]

bro i have 500 rpg kills tandems have no splash compared to heat

[desert cove]

It has the same splash as HEAT

[eternal turret]

They both have the same splash. You can literally see it in the video I posted above.

[desert cove]

datamining will confirm it

6m to be exact

[eternal turret]

It even goes through walls. You can get hit by the RPG hitting the floor

Wish I had the other video where I was getting through the floor on my IFC in District.

[desert cove]

It literally mised by few meters, still did dmg

https://medal.tv/games/battlebit-remastered/clips/13DylbV3PqnU_C/d1337vP9rr9r?invite=cr-MSxvcjcsMTcxODkxMzk2LA

here's anoyher one

Both made by @last axle

[eternal turret]

This is set to private apparently.

[desert cove]

huh

ok

Does this work?

[eternal turret]

yeah now it works.

damn that missed by a lot too.

[last axle]

Oh wtf why is it private

[desert cove]

Idk man, i copied link form dms

Second one is downloaded

[last axle]

Hmm one sec

Didn't change anything

Weird

https://medal.tv/games/battlebit-remastered/clips/1dvezEhyAQycds/LJH6kbpH0wWG?invite=cr-MSxRTGosMTk2ODI5MDY1LA

Found another clip

Little loud

[last axle]

@eternal turret this was a while ago when the radius was 5-6 m

[eternal turret]

Did they buff the radius?

[last axle]

Nah nerf

Forgot the number but it's less

[eternal turret]

It feels really bad still.

[last axle]

Haven't played the game in 2 weeks so I wouldn't know

[eternal turret]

Don't even bother coming back everything's just worse now.

[last axle]

Sad

[desert cove]

Yeah, much more engis, you would struggle to find vehicles to destroy

[last axle]

Damn the exp buff sure changed some stuff

[desert cove]

EXP buff, self heal combined increased population of Engineers by 50%

Like good weak in Heroes 3

[desert cove]

did they? I didn't see it in patch notes

[last axle]

Didn't you say it was nerfed to like 2-3 m?

[eternal turret]

Pretty sure it's the same, in fact I've been getting hit through objects more than ever.

[eternal turret]

Every enemy vehicle I see pretty much gets instantly blown up now. 3 mins into the match and I'm the only one left alive almost every time. It's gotten so bad there's basically no competition to get into a tank/APC now, and boats are basically never taken.

[desert cove]

Yeah, I would suppose a new vehicle would be extremly popular

It's not

I also play 64vs64 now, 254 is just bad and unpleasent to play

[last axle]

Based

[desert cove]

no. not based

[eternal turret]

hmm maybe I'll have more fun if I play 64 vs 64

[desert cove]

A population of players can't play "flagship" mode

Vehicle players don't enjoy "combined arms" game

[eternal turret]

Wow 64 vs 64 does seem a lot better.

[cedar ember]

Yep, is amazing how much better it is when you have less people trying to kill you

It's a good example of how 127s would be if only one class had anti vehicle

[graceful void]

yup, i literally have not played a single match of 254 ever since giving 128 a try again

128 is better not only from a vehicle perspective

but also more varied gamemodes

and no night maps

which is absolutely fuckin fantastic

128 enjoyers must have higher iq or something

got lenovo night all the time in 254

[desert cove]

On 128 map voting is better

there is much less Multu/wine/waki "enjoyers" there

[graceful void]

yeah

[desert cove]

And people vote for maps which are good for X gamemode

No furgis conquest

[graceful void]

like i said, i think the avg iq for 128 enjoyers is just higher

[desert cove]

Definetly

[clever vessel]

also because the maps are clearly designed for 128 as opposed to 254 where you're just doubling the amount of people and rapidly increasing the speed at which the game collapses into big frontline + 3 squads elsewhere

which is why 254 chooses waki so fast

[desert cove]

Yeah, maps feel somewhat better at 128

Still don't like them tho

[rancid hound]

literally every maps are designed so engis and medics can peak from a billion different angles and they don't bother modifying it for conquest gameplay but rather just "map expansion" which literally only adds more empty spaces

I have to say this again, but please limit c4 for classes: if every classes have c4s there's no point REALLY using the others and for god sake it's annoying as hell

[desert cove]

Perfect duel with enemy tank

Died to a tandem...

Becouse this motherfucker had to shoot

Anyway

5 minuts of 254 and I was shoot at more than during half of the 128 match

[wide relic]

C4 is supposed to do a lot of damage… vehicles aren’t supposed to be invincible

[clever vessel]

honestly this is something that's infuriating because many of the maps are full of tiny corners that don't really add anything but more places from which you could be killed, especially tensa with its empty suburban houses, a third of which will see no fighting

well, except for the sniper who manages to find a very comfy spot firing at you

[graceful void]

god, this is probably the single most annoying fucking thing about the map design

haven't seen it in any other shooter

even in milsims

it's literally impossible to account for every angle

[clever vessel]

the maps are just... full of waste atm

[wide relic]

U must forget bf3 snipers it was worse

An I was that guy that would snipe from carrier

[clever vessel]

like: why is there another extra cul-de-sac on tensa outside the far corner of US spawn? forget never having seen anyone fight there, I doubt most people know it exists

urban maps are already tough for vehicles in a game where most of the buildings are filled in and inaccessible, but this makes it a nightmare considering how much this facilitates low-level flanking even in the modes with the most players

[wide relic]

Urban maps just suck in general no way around it

[clever vessel]

imo it wouldn't be so bad if the game didn't currently revolve around large contiguous frontlines that usually don't cover entire maps, especially on conq (and even on the smaller maps)

this is something that I can't really express in any empirical sense but the frontlines don't ever seem to cover the whole map, even on smaller, extremely urban maps - e.g. tensa and sandy; sandy especially since it always seems like the frontline is just one of the sides of the road and the other is only about 10% of the game

[desert cove]

I mean yeah, you didn't said anything briliant

But there is difference between doing a lot of dmg and doing a lot of dmg, being fast and easy to use, available to everyone and outperforming any other AT

[past widget]

I was in the new boat, and I couldn't shoot down a littlebird that was firing at me, because it could fly while aiming downward at me. I couldn't aim high enough to shoot it.

[desert cove]

Yeah, that a serious problem

But one of many

[rancid hound]

not everyone is supposed to be an AT man Mr Obvious

[rancid hound]

but every maps are urbanized...

[rancid hound]

it's worse in APCs, you spend a whole 2 or more mags on your enemies APC only to die to that same motherfucker who pops out and tandem your ass. I'm pretty sure you're awared of this shitty situation

[desert cove]

Yes, yeas I am, unfortunately

[rancid hound]

Pretty sure if they add counter IED (no c4 detonated in close range) to vehicle loadout ALONE it would decrease vehicle deaths by 50% or more

Less than 10% of vehicle deaths are from other vehicles, how awesome

[desert cove]

Definetly, IMO it's 1. Tandem 2. C4 3. HEAT 4. everything else

Heat is very spammable, but doesn't kill often

[rancid hound]

HEAT death are usually caused by back 2x damage multiplier

because you can't reverse

[rancid hound]

1. C4
2. Tandem
3. HEAT
4. Vehicles
   C4 and tandems are closed tho

provided to you by people who play vehicles more than the devs themselves

[clever vessel]

It’s gotten to the point where i feel happy when i’m killed by a HE/AT over the other two lmfao

[rancid hound]

IRL tank v tank: whoever shoots first win
This game: whoever shoots first get swarmed by a billion engis and c4, winner: engis

"But this game isn't IRL!!!!!"

[desert cove]

I really envy Little Birb guys that they do have duels

[rancid hound]

real

[frigid cloak]

We need something in between the inflable boat and the big boat

With more guns

Something like a river patrol with a 50. Cal in front and the back

A river patrol more likely

[potent phoenix]

I feel the RBC90 should be able to be piloted/able to control the gun by a single person like the LAV/BTR. The amount of times where I want to shoot the gun and have someone who'll just beach it and/or just drive anywhere but where the action is makes it a pain to use.

One game I politely asked some guy to drive it to where we would be able to fire on point C on Basra and then he decides to spend a full 4 minutes just driving in and out of the map border, it was funny at first but overall just makes me not even wanna touch the boat lol

[rancid hound]

how are tandems just one shotting humvees without touching them rofl, the whole point of tandems is that they are supposed to hit the thing they need to kill in order to penetrate

[rancid hound]

Oki doesn't know how shit works apparantly

[torpid elk]

this should probably go into map feedback or something but god fucking btrs/lavs sitting out over the water on wakistan is a pain in the ass. literally impossible to do anything to them because you can shoot while swimming|

the real issue here is imo its just another example of vehicles playing the only way that is viable for them with how high the cost of losing them is. of course lav/btr are going to go out into the water where nothing can threaten them

[hollow tapir]

Isn’t this issue only there on 127v127 as there are no c point in 64v64?

[torpid elk]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[clever vessel]

i'm not gonna lie: do they ever even have any impact?

[rancid hound]

that's because if APCs go on bridge it's a death sentence, you're right about it's a map issue

[clever vessel]

i've never seen a single one of the waki btrs get a single kill in the water

[rancid hound]

for the people who take the path under the bridge yeah

[clever vessel]

ahh i see

[frigid cloak]

They should have one or two gunners in the back or something

[rancid hound]

but overall there's nothing APCs can do on the bridge except against braindead morons

[clever vessel]

yeah this leads me to another thing: the biggest manifestation of the vehicle situation rn is how much btr players will just kinda swim out to the far ocean and snipe at people whenever it's an option

basra, waki, isle, wineparadise, multu all have it to some extent

[rancid hound]

^

[torpid elk]

its all a symptom of vehicles having too high of a cost to risk them in firefights, better to sit at the back and support the disposable infantry. they will respawn at the frontline in 8 seconds anyways.

meanwhile a tank or btr gets destroyed and it is gone for several minutes

[rancid hound]

hence why camping is more favorable than attacking in most cases

[clever vessel]

plus the max atm is like... three btrs and two tanks on two of the conq maps (correct me if i'm wrong)

[torpid elk]

like, yea all their other options are too much of a death trap but at the same time it is frustrating how zero risk shit like floating out over the water is for btrs

[rancid hound]

The only map where you can actually utilize vehicles without worrying about c4 is gone

old Oil Dunes

[clever vessel]

siege of shanghai was like at best half of salhan and yet it had more vehicles, not to mention for only 32v32

[torpid elk]

i get them, but it isnt any less frustrating to see a btr near invincible sitting out on the water. you cant do anything to them really because swimming forces you to holster everything

i understand why they do it but i wish it wasnt a thing and they didnt have to resort to it

[rancid hound]

Wish for some sort of Talil in here, great map

[clever vessel]

whereas here for 128 and for 64 you get like two attack vehicles that take longer to respawn than in bf4/bfv

[frigid cloak]

They should add more vehicles or lower the spawning time

[rancid hound]

wouldn't change anything tbh given the glassy nature of them is still kept

[frigid cloak]

True

Still if they fix them would be nice to have the vehicle back faster

[clever vessel]

actually gonna be a bit of a bfv shill here: the vehicle combat in bfv is fucking great for one other reason than the basic qol and balance changes; the maps are designed to have multiple easily accessible routes for vehicles and points of interest are usually not separated by gulfs of foliage and danger

this game has just, wastelands of easy cover for infantry everywhere to take shots at vehicles

[torpid elk]

if you want more vehicles try that voxel fortify gamemode. it fucking swings shit in the complete other direction. 2 tanks with less than 30s respawn timers just fucking mowing down less than 20 people on the other team

like, this is my issue with how vehicles are currently set up. there is no natural way in game that will limit the frequency of vehicles it is something decided entirely in map making and if they fuck it up it messes with shit big time. if vehicles cost squad points or something to spawn and could be spawned at base near on-demand then we wouldnt need to rely on map makers putting the right number of vehicles with the right spawn timers. instead a rework to the squad point system could create the means for vehicles to be both limited but also accessible and lower cost.

[clever vessel]

looking at tensa and its nonstop deadend cul-de sacs and generally nonexistent laning

[rancid hound]

Voxel with vehicles is a mistake

it's like Fortnite but on BF scale, doesn't mix

[frigid cloak]

What about a Airdrop for resupply the vehicles?

Having to go back and forth is kinda annoying

[rancid hound]

Most "vehicle fix" are just straight up map reworks but now vehicles are fucking busted because objectives are directly in the LOS of vehicles

[torpid elk]

vehicles in a mode such as that should be treated with the same respect as a resupply drop. its a big deal and costs a lot of points for a potentially significant contribution. they should be a thing, but it should cost something to use them

[clever vessel]

so much nodding rn

imo the maps also just... need reworks. wineparadise rework is quite a step in the right direction but as it stands almost every map in the game is designed around extremely tight lanes that converge on one or two points, which, is terrible for any vehicle - transport, assault, all of them suffer

[frigid cloak]

You usually get ambush in the way back and without ammo to defend yourself

[rancid hound]

Tbh I'd appreciate if you have to resupply less rather than being able to resupplied more

[frigid cloak]

Yeah

[clever vessel]

like you can even see this from stats the devs have collected - the basra map statistics show that nearly zero vehicles ever crossed the choke at the middle, during the beta

[torpid elk]

wow, guess what. planetside 2 solved this problem too! the sunderers could resuply other vehicles

[frigid cloak]

20 rounds for tanks would be nice

[rancid hound]

yup

[frigid cloak]

And 30 rounds for APC would be nicer

[torpid elk]

fuck, thats actually a decent idea. let me drive a cargo truck back and forth and it can drop off a large resuply thing, the one you get from an airdrop using squad points, or resuply tanks with it

[rancid hound]

coax is great for close self defense only because of how spread out it is

literally Scar H

[frigid cloak]

Something like an LMTV?

That sounds great

[rancid hound]

APC doesn't need a mag fix, it needs accuracy and damage fix, brute forcing it with more ammo or more ammo in 1 go isn't a real fix

[clever vessel]

honestly there's so much cool stuff we could offload from the current 'always available for free' model and onto squad points

[rancid hound]

given how stupidly designed the whole coop system is I'm surprised the devs still care about teamwork ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[torpid elk]

would be something better than the 20+ humvees nobody touches after match start. replace 2-4 of them with this and i would totally use them to drive back and forth in circles resuplying tanks and lav/btrs

the problem is of course whether the tanks and lav/btr survive long enough to need ammo

[rancid hound]

What can you do to protect vehicles as infantry? Meatshield
What can you do to protect infantry as vehicle? You have to shout for fucking morons to go forward instead of them using you as armor

[torpid elk]

which they wont

[rancid hound]

Great idea but I doubt people will actually do the task

[frigid cloak]

The humvees also need fix

[clever vessel]

oh while we're at it: i feel like if we shift vehicles onto squad points, we should probably also take away the turreted humvees and slot them there

[frigid cloak]

First would be make the road kills actually work

[torpid elk]

but, assuming they did survive long enough, a vehicle you can expect to drive back and forth from spawn to the front and then back would also serve a way to decrease the necessity of squad spawning

[rancid hound]

Maybe for hardcore yeah but currently the system doesn't feel like it needs a logistical system

[clever vessel]

extremely cheap, probably, but still put them there

[rancid hound]

if Oki insists on keeping the current universal c4 system then adding vehicle loadout is a good thing

[frigid cloak]

Like the 50. cal one should have more armor and windows that can resist more damage

But should be slower

[rancid hound]

One thing I think should be able to be resupplied by airdrop is 50 cal and the remote turret

I won't mind if it has to be done manually

[frigid cloak]

I think would make more sense to have at least two ammo boxes in the humvees

At least for the 50 cal

Having ammo boxes makes more sense

[rancid hound]

idk why there's no ammo count for 50 cal

you don't know how much is left

[frigid cloak]

For the crow system maybe increase the ammo

[torpid elk]

i actually think the current mode desperately needs some set of logistical systems to help disincentivize backcapping. even on some of the chokeiest and most funnel shaped maps im starting to see more fighting happen outside of my team and the enemy's bases than at the center points

like shit man, fucking valley. i am constantly disappointed how little fighting happens in the center now compared to when the game was release. all valley is now is helis flying past everyone to the back points and dropping of 3-4 people who spontaniously divide into 30-40 people

[rancid hound]

I'd really appreciate if you have to resupply less rather than being able to resupply constantly tbh, the real issue is you have to get back to restock then go back which is annoying. Resupplying at frontlines are a great idea but the resupplying time if still kept the same will only proves catastrophic because how vulnerable you can be when at the frontlines rather than the safety of main base

[frigid cloak]

Helicopters should be more weak to rpgs

[rancid hound]

helicopter can tank 3 shots from tank is funny as hell

[frigid cloak]

They should be left in critical condition with one and still be able to flee

[clever vessel]

i feel like the infantry should really just... be less all-powerful in general to solve lots of problems, like backcapping

right now the infantry are just too good at every job. Even forgetting that for some reason the medics are currently able to heal faster and destroy vehicles with impunity, the baseline abilities of the average infantryman are so high it affects how everything else is balanced. Let's forget vehicles for a moment and look at poor old spurned support - even with the ability to make special fortifications, resup ammo, and some quite decent weapons under their belt, my average game currently has like maybe 5-10% supports. there isn't a real reason as the game currently exists not to be a solo infantryman popping off playing gimped call of duty with destruction mechanics

[torpid elk]

you mean how vulnerable you can be when anywhere except at main base. the rear points are some of the most dangerous because some random bush warrior is going to shit an engineer with a tandem out of his ass and blow you to pieces

[rancid hound]

yup

remove c4 from every classes except assault and engis, the main assaulting and specialist classes. Replacing them with more wall breaching methods that doesn't damage vehicles that much

[torpid elk]

support weapons are actually quite decent. unfortunately support is a more defensive class and the lmgs lean further into that by slowing you the fuck down.

defending just isnt much of a thing in this game

[clever vessel]

you can spawn anywhere you want, except for some reason at objs that have one guy on them. you can shoot anything you want on half the classes, except for on support and recon, and only one of them have consistent one shot kill capabilities. the end result is that everyone recognizes all of that and no one plays those classes because there's just zero benefit

[frigid cloak]

Depends of the game mode

But yeah

[clever vessel]

when everyone can do everything without ever asking anyone else to help, all combined-arms, all coordination, everything, is just permafucked. the skeleton of the game can subsist without everything else but let's be honest? if that's what we're here for just start up a server on a call of duty multiplayer client

[torpid elk]

medic absolutely shouldnt have antivehicle tools. support is... im a torn. on one hand the sheer volume of garbage support can throw out is a problem but on the other hand its one of the few things the class really excels at and is semi-viable

i suppose part of the problem is how you can throw c4 like an olympic shot putter

[clever vessel]

C4’s also like, way too all-purpose

[frigid cloak]

That's cool and shouldn't be changed

But every class having access to C4 yeah

That sadly must be removed

[clever vessel]

It performs the role of the sledgehammer, the grenade, the rpg and the claymore all at once

And also its power isn’t at all proximate to c4’s cost atm - it doesn’t cost you literally anything to use c4, because you’re not often choosing it over any other option, you’re just choosing… the only good option

[torpid elk]

honestly, i think i have gotten more vehicle kills with c4 lately than with rpgs. it really is too easy to just toss out 3-4 packs of it and blow it up before a vehicles even knows you are there

[clever vessel]

I’ve been seeing way more players use c4 lately since the trophy came out and neutered grenade spam

Really the only thing i haven’t seen it replace are the claymores and anti personnel mines, solely because they’re automatic

[torpid elk]

in planetside 2, c4 fairies were not that big of a problem because they were rather exposed (you know, as flying in the air tends to leave you) and the loss of a vehicle is rather low cost.

i still think planetside managed combined arms really well. vehicles exceled in all sorts of roles but you still needed infantry to do the dirty work and take points. you would frequently see a line of tanks sitting back and shelling a base and providing support for infantry to push. you dont see that here even though vehicles are rather comparably fragile from how i remember it

[elder heath]

as soon as the claymore nerf hit (as it should have)
i and many other players switched to c4 just because its a general purpose fix all
wall? kitchen gun c4
vehicle? c4
out of frags? c4
need a tree gone arson c4

[torpid elk]

like, you saw players actually doing things with vehicles in planetside because if you lose it so what just buy a new one at a terminal. it cost resources so you couldnt spam it but unless you keep losing them willy nilly you could totally go an entire day playing only vehicles if you were good

[clever vessel]

(Love the reference)

[clever vessel]

And it was like genuinely fun to use them to assault a point, no matter what you were doing

(Only 28 hours on ps2)

[torpid elk]

honestly, im torn about the claymore nerf. it did slow the game down which created more fights instead of the usual steamroll of one team crashing over your point and wiping everyone out before your team could spawn in

the fact that you could create no-mans land in places helps slow down steamrolls as they were forced to clear the claymores out (either by shooting them, exploding them, or just charging through them) before assaulting or go around. this usually bough enough time for people to begin to spawn into a point and create an actual fight

[patent edge]

but battlebit characters are like 200 pound 6ft 4 jamals

[torpid elk]

barbed wire is pretty obviously an attempt to try and slow things down again

[clever vessel]

Also it wasn’t like you could just unilaterally spam it wherever you wanted - it was and still is pretty easy to set off chain explosions and immediately evaporate an entire hovel of claymores/apms

As someone who came from cod i wholeheartedly endorse claymores and mines. They’re frustrating? Yeah. That’s the point. It slows things down to give other kinds of players real options. It incentivizes other tactical options while also not having much of a genuinely significant effect (even in a game where killstreaks are an important part of the core loop)

[torpid elk]

hell, that was actually a role vehicles could play during that time. vehicles could serve as mine clearers and clear a path for infantry into a point

[elder heath]

most (excludiing open areas like waki forest or sandy desert areas) usage of mines and claymores are centered around staircases or just around doorframes out of sight
it wouldnt really do much to try to turn vehicles into mine clearers

[clever vessel]

Unfortunately yeah, since the lack of vehicle movement and infantry movement on roads on most maps means that there really isn’t much reason to dump your mines there

That said i did see it a few times - and yeah, it truly is totally gone now

[torpid elk]

honestly, as a claymore spammer, that isnt the best use for them. clearing them from buildings is rather easy and safe. just toss a frag grenade or two.

the best use for claymores was to fucking saturate every piece of flat open ground outside a point and force enemies to duke it out with you from a fortified position rather than just rush your building and flood into it and shoot you in the back

[clever vessel]

As an apm spammer you use apms for that purpose! Since they’re not very visible they are a nasty surprise on a staircase or in an enclosed room

[clever vessel]

Also you rat bastard so you were the one doing that every time i played oil dunes

[rancid hound]

wait how tf can you play oil dunes

[clever vessel]

Past tense

[rancid hound]

Oil Dunes, at least the old version, is supposed to be somewhat of a dedicated conquest map. They removed it for no apparant reason

They always want every maps to be fucking infantry based for absolutely zero reasons

[torpid elk]

not on oil dunes, but i did it on wakistant to stave off a heli that was dropping 12 people onto a point every minute. they actually gave up with flooding the point with people and started to land away from the point and attack on foot instead of trying to jump off the rope onto the ground because there was literally nowhere safe for them to jump

[clever vessel]

We salute people like you

My best apm experience was on namak d point, just torturing the shit out of the increasing trickle of infantry flooding down the main road with the isolated one just out of your obvious line of sight. Knocked ten or so out and bought time for friendlies to reinforce before i died

[rancid hound]

man I still don't get why every maps has to be either moon surface or Tokyo, literally urbanized as hell and people bitch about camping because vehicles can't do shit

[clever vessel]

Honestly hot take: a lot of the people complaining would be complaining about it even without actual camping. It’s just used as an offhand to be angry that their high aggression isn’t being rewarded as they’d like

[rancid hound]

yup

[clever vessel]

I love being a cod player and recognizing the same behavior here

[torpid elk]

its similar with scope glint. i have been of the opinion that it doesnt actually balance snipers as they will just use options without glint or will play in ways that make the glint pointless anyways. the real way to balance snipers is to make aiming more of a process than point and click. make range estimation an actual skill, make shooting involve more factors and variables than just drop and travel time, etc

of course all anyone latches on to is that i want glint gone and apparently that would make snipers "overpowered because then you would be shot at and have no way to know where it is coming from or that you are even in danger at all"

[elder heath]

as if its not the case already

[torpid elk]

the disparity between release and now is rather striking. i rarely even see a single glint in most matches compared to the 20+ at release. there are just as many snipers now as before, they just all use medium scopes

[clever vessel]

and all the sniper players i know all prefer them anyways independent of the glint (waves fist in the air ineffectually)

[patent edge]

where do you play!!! i see dozens every match

[torpid elk]

NA, i suppose it might be different in other regions

[patent edge]

eu diff 💀

or more eu dumb

[clever vessel]

can reciprocate for JP, i see only about 5-6 per match but the scoreboard shows at least 20-25 recon

[rancid hound]

never saw glint past the borderline

glint is pointless except for sniper v sniper duel, but they're more of a point and click, pray and shoot thing rather than actual skill

[opaque lily]

They prevent jetski and transport heli backcaps, which can be very powerful. It's honestly how the btr is supposed to play on the majority of infantry-water maps like Salhan also.

[torpid elk]

i could go all in on how backcapping being so easy has been bad for the game.

the issue relevant to this thread is how by sitting in the water so far away they are now near invincible. vehicles right now exist in one of two extremes: glass ready to shatter or nigh untouchable

[opaque lily]

Why not make vehicles be purchased with squad points at the base? Would certainly encourage people to play the objective to earn some points to buy a tank. Thoughts?

[torpid elk]

i suggested that too. i think it would be a very good change so long as they get the prices right... as long as it coincides with a rework to the squad point system. its not in a good place right now and doesnt acomplish the task of getting squads to work together and concentrate on an objective

[opaque lily]

It's only 1 AP shot from the tank and the next one will kill it, however you can repair inbetween and survive the second shot. HE seems to do little damage.

[torpid elk]

right now, the meta for squad leaders is to get all your memebers to spread out across the map and switch the objective back and forth depending on which points are about to be taken by your team.

if you change an objective to a point the moment before your team captures it and a squad member is on it its just a free 100 squad points. rinse and repeat. the system also has issues with how defending is unrewarding too (you need to be a bad defender to get squad points)

[opaque lily]

Alright. I had multiple amazing games with the chopper today and this weekend. My final game in the evening was on Sandysunset where my gunners got 55 (THIFTY FIVE) kills! My gunners had zero deaths, we were never shot down, but I was sniped out of the pilot seat multiple times and we did a midair seat switch. This is my higest confirmed record so far and is absolutely mad. However I may have gotten 60~ kills on valley before with various gunners. I'm honestly a bit exausted and I imagine it feels like an arm workout for all three of us.

The transport chopper more than anything needs bulletproof glass windsheild to protect from sniper/m249/groundfire. I die more to snipers than any other way of dying combind. If bullet proofing is a no go then you could add functionality to the F2 coopilot seat. Where if the F1 seat is vacant the controls will revert to whoever is in F2. There also needs to be a dot reticle added for the person in F2 so they can spot or do litterally anything in the chopper. Currently it is a useless seat.

The helicopters base health is too much. They can tank so many RPGs and groundfire it's unreal. The only real threat is Tandems which will cruely 1 shot a full chopper with 12 people and the new littlebird, with it's increased vehicle damage. More than the vehicle damage however is it's lethal potential to kill off all the occupants with it's dead-on accurate miniguns, which seeminly can kill in as little as 2 shots vs 6+ with the transport chopper's miniguns.

The miniguns themselves need to be buffed, They need better damage so the can actually kill people when circle strafing instead of having the enemy keep respawning off each other. The bandaging update does not help us at all since even non medics can heal themselves.

[torpid elk]

generally agree that helicopters are too durable. its made up for a bit by them being able to have tail rotors shot out but even still its goofy how durable they are. this is doubly so when engineers are inside repairing them.

rpgs are also generally a non-threat because helis are really fast and fly relatively high with them only being vulnerable during brief moments such as dropping people off.

miniguns imo need an accuracy buff. the damage isnt that bad for what they are but unless you are shooting at a clump of people or at a vehicle you are going to miss 90% of shots. combine this with low damage and it just becomes a suppression tool usually

as for getting sniped or shot out of the seat, generally isnt much of a risk and, as you had, if you have a copilot they can switch into the seat fast and fly off. really really good pilots are also near impossible to hit with gunfire anyways because they will do stuff like angle the cockpit away from gunfire instead of flying headfirst into it like new pilots

[opaque lily]

You have to fly headfirst in order to have both of your miniguns firing at the same time and even at the same target when the converge, You also need to stare down boats and APCs in order to not get a tail rotor hit, which is goofy in itself that the front of the heli can absore maybe 20(?)+ 25mm apc shells. The guns themseleves are very accurate when you go for delayed bursts and keep the weapon cool.

[limpid flame]

Who tf gives a single fuck about APCs, Just give them coaxials And they are fine

Better to Focus on tanks And helis

[wide relic]

Because humvees in rl won’t wit stand much in the way of explosives

[rancid hound]

a tandem needs to hit something in order for it to work: shit is meant to penetrate, it doesn't have a lot of fragmentation

[wide relic]

It should be a one hit for all rpgs

SMH vehicles aren’t meant to be invincible just be glad wheels an tank tread breakin aren’t a thing

[clever vessel]

i'm genuinely not sure how you summon the energy to constantly return to this thread and advocate for the weakest vehicles possible

[rancid hound]

one hit for all RPGs
so ur saying the frag rocket should kill the humvee in one hit?
delusional.

tandem it makes sense, the HEAT rocket it should at least survive one

[clever vessel]

also like. the bradley exists. that thing tanks ieds like a motherfucker. the abrams is barely susceptible to c4. the t90 won't instantly die because someone fired a rocket at its front. even assuming the 'realism' position, this is just, wrong

it's a fundamentally idiotic idea that one specific aspect of the game should be subject to 'reality' while people are hauling around 7 magazines, 7 improvised explosive devices, a sledgehammer, an assault rifle, full kit and a backpack while running like an olympic triathlon runner, and i think you very much know this

[wide relic]

7 mags is standard combat load lol . Again u just want vehicles to be invincible it’s hilarious 😂 .

[desert cove]

The problem is, that we have Medics that dont heal or ress, and supports that doesn't know they can throw ammo boxes. No one would use those vehicles correctyl, or people will grief them.

[wide relic]

An only thing they need to fix wit c4 is distance thrown an how many u have

[desert cove]

Every time someone says that they are underpowered, because they are comparing even to Planteside 2, someone brings an argument "YoU jUsT WanT ThEm tO bE InVinCiBlE", when all people are asking for are buffs and fixes to make them more enjoyable to play, and more fun.

[wide relic]

Humvees tho come on man

[clever vessel]

oh humvees can keep the one shot kill

they're 1000% disposable anyhow

yeah misread

saw the apcs thing and thought you were going on about them again

[torpid elk]

well of course we have medics that dont res. they are the best combat class!

i see supports throw ammo down, but usually they wait until someone asks for ammo. its not like it really matters considering how plentiful ammunitions and everything is. you get everything back when you die. it only really matters if trying to fortify and defend a particular point or building but as i pointed out: defending is mostly pointless

[desert cove]

This doesn't change the fact that any logistic system just doesn't fit in this game. It's too fast, too much camping outside spawn zone, back caping, people play very selfishly

You would literally put an responsibility on players, players that don't even care to ress you 1 out 4 times

Even though ressing revards you handsomly

BFV ressuply point is as far as this idea could go

[wide relic]

O believe I agree I make fun of the sprinting all the time endlessly I wish I had that kind of stamina 🤣

[rancid hound]

I thought it's 47 damage

[clever vessel]

Finally i won’t disappoint my PE teacher

[rancid hound]

man the fact that Oki literally buff every vehicles health without even considering the effect of anti armor capabilities from potential threats is way too annoying

When he buffs heli's health he definitely did not give a shit about how the ground players will feel

adding to it the fact you can repair after tanking several hits is just crazily stupid

Like bruh, a heli isn't supposed to tank a god damn 120mm shell

"BuT iT's NoT hArDcOrE" ye like stfu at that point a heli is more survivable than a tank already

[desert cove]

I think Oki never played any vehicle for longer than 15 minutes

[wide relic]

There called flying death traps for a reason