Support - Feedback

[livid carbon]

well yes but actually no

[shell hound]

When a medic can just turn and cut you down with an MP5 at 100m because your MG is just scattering bullets in a 20m spray around them, there's an issue.

[livid carbon]

for an m60 with a 2sk at range with 500rpm that would be important but not for the lil' light mgs we got rn

or for an mg3, in general mmgs could be balanced with that, just not lmgs

[shell hound]

The LMGs currently available should be all in the 700-900 velocity range, have 30-34 damage within 150m, and should NOT exceed 2.75 total vertical and horizontal recoil.

And the ADS speed should be buffed on the L86/MG36 to .30 without attachments.

[weary garden]

How do people differentiate lmg rounds and regular ones

[livid carbon]

ars don't bother to shoot f/a at that distance

[round marsh]

Combining mags as a support should actually just fill them from your pouch. It's self resupply without throwing a box like people have asked for (to be similar to medic self heal), and you don't even have to change how the ammo box works.

[livid carbon]

infinite ammo at no real cost?
tf

[paper vector]

Ammo from the kits is already good as infinite

It’s purely a convenience thing

[livid carbon]

yeah but you have the cost of putting it down

[velvet wing]

I think the point is it's supposed to take a second to resupply

Which should be how medic is as well tbh

But I've never suggested taking that away from medic because everyone would probs complain

Can't close the box once open in a sense

[meager salmon]

infinite health at no real cost?
tf

[livid carbon]

would be insane if a class actually had that right 🤣

[meager salmon]

yeah. good thing theres no precedent for that already and that support definitely hasnt been neglected in that regard

it would just be so OP if support could refill ammo on the move. ludicrous!

[livid carbon]

or yk, that theoretical class with wolverine healing has all meta guns

[meager salmon]

good thing its only theoretical!

[livid carbon]

yes fr fr no cap

[still ledge]

seeing the recomendations, wouldnt have both working armour and lmgs that can do way better than assault rifles really busted class in the end?

specially if you put a good bipod in the mix, a full squad of supports on a tunnel would be quite frustating to fight

maybe even in the open field

a class that can have the effectivness of an assault rifle with 200 rounds per mag and is able to survive more shots than other classes aswell as able to have it as a dmr when prone would be quite something in my opinion

[shell hound]

Not really, since they would would be still slower than a UAV while sprinting and unable to deal with flankers easily.

[dry bobcat]

They should be really scary when they're entrenched with bipod deployed, and relatively harmless otherwise.

[bright umbra]

Ok but

Have we looked at the bipod yet?

[paper vector]

Dealing with flankers doesn’t seem like something that your speed really affects. Just general combat ability.

[paper vector]

Doesn’t have to be hugely better than it is now. Just better enough.

Bipod doesn’t need to be a must-have attachment, it just needs to not be an active downgrade.

[royal hare]

still gathering data

/ s

[bright umbra]

Week 5 of support challenges

[still ledge]

The mf is not slow enough to the point of being considered a turtle
Also cars

[still ledge]

Thats the main problem with bipod honestly and just a buff and fix on it would basically make all of the lmgs to be good, aswell would be better if they buffed the drum mags in general to not give more recoil and control, it would make the l68 and gc6 to perfom better than they are right now

If it still not enough than actually go see the stats of the main weapons with i doubt it would be needed for the two lmgs

[woven fossil]

give us 8 mines and claymores instead of 4

[tropic oxide]

why, when the limits 4 or 5 anyway? (bullshit limit, btw)

[flat sedge]

I assume he meansup the limit as a support

[violet smelt]

Still no new weapons announced for Support

I cry

[drifting mulch]

so full of 4 weapons...

meanwhile engineer

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1084677456943915088.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

[bright umbra]

Make bipod a weapon

[drifting mulch]

let support fly when he shoots down

mobilty class

[bright umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/scout-tf2-spinning-gif-21435245

[royal hare]

hopefully we will get some news in the next devcast since they said it would be a good one

[weary garden]

Hopefully we get a devcast

[flat sedge]

29 esh guns (only lacking 10 total if I recall right aka the snipers & support's LSGs/LMGs)

[drifting mulch]

is there anyone else who has more gun?

[flat sedge]

there are some that the wiki says is in the pipeline,unsure where through

[flat sedge]

support has the most

medic 2nd (lacks DMRs)

assault next

(lacks SMGs but has DMRs,also lacks half the carbines)

sec, I updated the wiki a bit ago(days ago to be more precise) with the exact details

[drifting mulch]

support has the most?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1085244293175836763.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

[flat sedge]

least, even less than disabled squad leader

Okay for exact totals
SL has 18 primaries
assault has 22
medic has 24
engineer 29
support 4
recon 11

could've miscounted through

[drifting mulch]

good info
Feel like the first 3 classes have too many weapon options
I really don't get the reasoning on weapon exclusion. It's not consistent at all

bf3/4 did a good job having 1 unique weapon class for each class, then 3 categories that anyone could use

[alpine zinc]

is there a source for this? I've never played bf4 and am curious about the weapon class breakdown.

[drifting mulch]

here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLzYLTPN6Mw

they changed engineer's carbine from bf3 to pdw in bf4, so now carbines are the ones available for everyone

I kinda prefered bf3 locking engineer to smg, since carbine are just middle ground

[alpine zinc]

thanks

[drifting mulch]

think battlebit would benefit somewhat with this or at least more fairly spread weapon distribution

instead of feeling extremely random

[drifting mulch]

like this half the carbines thing

which I'm guessing it's just the scorpion evo

[flat sedge]

Yep

which to me doesn't make much sense

[drifting mulch]

think it was because of the reload buff?

on assault

[flat sedge]

maybe

but I do agree

some universal weapon classes may not be terrible

but having some unique/semi unique ones at least on each

[drifting mulch]

feel it's not the case cause of how disproportionate weapon classes are

million assault riffles, half on smgs, then like 2 carbine and pdw

and 2 lmg, 2 "light support"

[flat sedge]

also doesn't help how crazy the categories are

[bright umbra]

Day 2 of posting a bipod until it gets buffed

[drifting mulch]

so tru boomfie

[livid carbon]

i need muh 200m effective range ultimax 💯

[bright umbra]

Day 3 of posting a bipod until it gets buffed

[sweet sinew]

It already is

[livid carbon]

nuh uh it ain't effective

[paper vector]

At that range it is hurt badly by damage dropoff

[livid carbon]

that aswell

[timid night]

Yes

[bright umbra]

Day 4 of posting a bipod until it gets buffed

[livid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1169735759834652732/IMG_1380.png?ex=65567c51&is=65440751&hm=37f0d52fb55e459deea0a000ac143a090629141fdc335599c51dddc791710a07&

[heavy sage]

@bright umbra

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1169746772449566890/IMG_1380.png?ex=65568693&is=65441193&hm=d960effdd051e97a2093805cf8988ce9c694fab1b31364a2853dfb1a76f80662&

[bright umbra]

🫡

[fierce dawn]

im doing my part

[flat sedge]

(thinks of starship troopers)

[upper violet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1169857853654323240/IMG_1380.png?ex=6556ee07&is=65447907&hm=f68251591ed953c816e3463e5b97611b4ed59f48a656cec858e5ed6bea5d031d&

[livid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1169857853654323240/IMG_1380.png?ex=6556ee07&is=65447907&hm=f68251591ed953c816e3463e5b97611b4ed59f48a656cec858e5ed6bea5d031d&

[bright umbra]

Day 5 of posting a bipod until it gets buffed

[bright umbra]

day 6 of posting a bipod until it gets buffed

[livid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1170314996291481650/IMG_1380.png?ex=655897c6&is=654622c6&hm=1da16b7062970697b8a0c42a185481d1f5c168d29850da9e4eefbf3973f1c020&

[heavy sage]

bipid

bottom tdxg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1170384230375751750/IMG_1380.png?ex=6558d841&is=65466341&hm=cf54de02822ffe3f30d47ab9d5175ccbe9f5364d4a60018ac5d61b93b1126941&

[bright umbra]

Day 7 of posting a bipod until it gets buffed (no one came to stop us yet I think it’s working)

[inner monolith]

#dev-wip message !!!

Bipod is no longer shit??!?!?!?!!?!?

[livid carbon]

FUUUCKKK YEAHHHH

[lethal river]

That's so hype can't wait

[sweet sinew]

Can't see deployed stats

but it looks like it now just offers basically no negative except -10% ADS and -5% move speed, which I'm pretty happy with

[weary garden]

30% recoil reduction

[sweet sinew]

where are you seeing that?

[velvet wing]

Hype

[flat sedge]

#dev-wip message

HYPE

OKI HAS BLESSED US!

[heavy sage]

do not forget brothers

we still need them to fix the actually deploying of it

it's super finicky and only works on some surfaces at some angles

[sweet sinew]

Still would like to see the stats when deployed

[weary garden]

iykyk

but 30% recoil reduction to first shot, v, and h

[sweet sinew]

ah ok 😉

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-rising-revengeance-senator-armstrong-revengeance-i-made-it-the-fuck-up-gif-25029602

[woeful linden]

We'll see! The fight may not be over, but this is a goodass step. I have my bipod images ready

[bright umbra]

A small victory for now

we shall lay down our weapons temporarily.

[livid carbon]

lay 'em down on a bipod

[rugged socket]

Add a pkm or some other lagre machine gun. Support needs more guns

[livid carbon]

chinese pkp, mg3, m60 and mg5 are happening soon™️

aswell as rpk and aug hbar

[rugged socket]

"soon" can mean anything between next update to in the next 3-5 years

[livid carbon]

like multiple months 💀

[rugged socket]

💀

[tight narwhal]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[dry bobcat]

We need a "mounted" mechanic for bipods, so that they don't silently "turn off" when they aren't perfectly in contact with an object

[still ledge]

idk how bf1 did it but there were so places you couldnt even place a bipod,, yet it was deployed

and really easy in general to mount a bbipod, even on accident

[still ledge]

Hey the m249 its actually decent with the bipod when you want to have a bit more range

[still ledge]

Yeah the bipod buff helped the lmgs alot ngl
Ultimax becomes one focused on just mid and long range with the bipod
M249 is more flexible and can be useful in cloae ranges and mid range but loses in longe range against the ultimax

[sweet sinew]

ok lol the bipod does nothing

Barely noticable change between deployed and not

[weary garden]

use a higher zoom scope?

bc it's the highest recoil reduction you can get rn

[sweet sinew]

I use a prisma

[weary garden]

idk man

I was doing pretty well with prisma ultimax

[still ledge]

Was using the acog and i was able to get medium range kills really easy with the m249

Also like alot of attachments got changed, something like long barrel decreases recoil instead of more damage

And they removed the recoil debuff for what it seems for the bipod

[woeful linden]

I was doing much better with bipod M249 at range than before

[still ledge]

Ultimax is the one for longer ranges for what i see

Even without the bipod you can still hit shots reliable, m2 need more that bipod bonus to be able to compete with the ultimax on that front

[shadow walrus]

ultimax still doesnt have acess to canted sights

[livid carbon]

well, it got a carrying handle

[woeful linden]

What if the carrying handle, unique canted attachment, that increased your speed or some shit at the expense of idk, draw speed

[fierce dawn]

we did it friends

the bipod meta is real

[woeful linden]

I laid down in a road on Isle and killed 7 people before I died, thanks to the Bipod

and apparently people not expecting someone laying down in the middle of the road.

[fierce dawn]

drilled snipers with the ultimax before they could get a bead on me

thats super close but still

finally feels like you can defend a point

[still ledge]

first time i see more than 0 supports in a squad

[weary garden]

sounds better suited as a buff to iron sights

[bright umbra]

That’s because it’s the ultimax

[livid carbon]

all my homies love the max 💯

[alpine hornet]

Lies, the L86 LMG weekly every week was the only buff we needed for people to play support

Fr tho gonna try out the bipod

[livid carbon]

after months of pain i have ascended

[woeful linden]

Does the L86 even have a bipod

I mean it's on the gun literally, it's already attached

but I didn't see it in the attachments as an options

On it or the MG36

They really should have 'em!

[woven fossil]

• RUNNING SPEED?

[weary garden]

magpul angeled decreases runspeed

so going from penalty to no penalty is an increase

[gilded dock]

My goodness, bipod is now an actually decent attachment

[weary garden]

bipod is so insanely back

guys I'm using fuicking iron sights

and having a good time

[still ledge]

we are so back

we can actually kill shit without having to work 10 times harder

also the change of the attachments in general did help the lmgs alot in my experience

longe barrel and heavy barrel is insane

[weary garden]

there is still work to be done

armor rework and LSW buffs/bipods/more guns

[fierce dawn]

and the way snipers cry about it youd think the Exo helmet personally insults their mother every time their ranger barrel doesnt increase damage

[still ledge]

lsw buffs would be good to make it the playstyle close to other guns

while the lmgs have their own thing like the ultimax being good at long ranges and when full auto

[woven fossil]

Wait does the m200 not one tap Exo anymore?

[tepid jolt]

ranger barrel no longer gives dmg boost so it can’t reach the breakpoint

[sweet sinew]

Nope, barrels no longer modify damage

[bright umbra]

Minor Exo buff, support is winning

We’re doing it fellas

[sweet sinew]

I retract my previous statement, bipods are good 👍

The issue I was having is places I thought would be bipod stable aren't, and turning to specific angles would arbitrarily deactivate bipod

[lethal river]

Would be nice if crouch deployments were as consistent as being prone

But for the moment I am satisfied 🥹

[sweet sinew]

The window detection is verrrry janky, and has the other limitation of making you a giant silhouette as you have to be right next to the window

[lethal river]

Absolutely

I really wanna give the ultimax a try with the new bipod, i chose a bad time to prestiege lmao

[sweet sinew]

It's tasty and finally feels like a support gun

[lethal river]

Been getting tons of mileage with the slip sight pre-bipod buff on just vert grip/tactical barrel, when the ultimax rolls around in about 55 more ranks that 3.4x scope is getting slapped on

[sweet sinew]

Previously I used very grip, vamp and prisms sight, very effective

[lethal river]

Ahh can't wait 😭

[bright umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-victory-screech-funny-gif-25682942

[stark blade]

bipod is no longer dogwater, we're so back

[dry bobcat]

Next we need bipod mounting

[idle valley]

this is proof that spamming an image macro is the only way to get anything fixed

[weary garden]

So what's next

[patent timber]

So bipod is good now but rip vertical grip it got nerfed

No more gun run with no armor m249 vert grip then

[dry bobcat]

Either mounted bipods, or something about armor

[fierce dawn]

Definitely armor I'd say

Exo helmet protecting against a single shot is nice but it's still a huge movement debuff to save you from one hit

[cursive silo]

I do not know about you, but I think there needs to be another weapon choice as well... I think having carbines could be good. Also maybe if they could have a unique gadget like mortar system or something?

[woven fossil]

Is it just grips and barrels or were magazines changed? Is it not throwing to drum a 36 now?

[jade cairn]

Just grips and barrels.

I do wish the M249 model would add the actual M249 bipod, but that’s neither here nor there.

[weary garden]

Mag changes still pending

[bright umbra]

Please lord

Buff quick mags…

[alpine hornet]

This is good tbh, even as someone who snipes way more than they play support. It’s kind of the point of the exo helmet and the M200 is good enough by itself, doesn’t need to negate that

[still ledge]

also that one shot and you basically just made support be worse in combat until he respawns just by shooting him once

with thse attachemnt changes and bipod fix,i wonder how the new weapons will work ouout specially the german lmg we are geting

[lethal river]

Armour is top priority personally, more consistent bipod mounting other than being prone would also be nice

Would love to use a drum mag as well, there’s just a lot of downsides

Movement speed does it in for me

[still ledge]

Bipod mounting had been quite fair to me by now, the only time i had some moments in on windowns or when a object is slight shorter but enough that i cant use it

Also on sandbags if you try to turn left ans right

You have to be looking foward to be consistent

Otherwise you go between mounted and unmounted

[lethal river]

I’ll have to give the sandbags a try

Been doing decent with windows otherwise

[still ledge]

I mostly just use them to block my right and left

[lethal river]

I’d love to mount the bipod on some other objects as well though ideally

[still ledge]

So i can focus what is in front of me without geting sniped

[lethal river]

Definitely

[still ledge]

Some maps have objects to use, but can be quite situation

Or is in a bad position that you can get flanked

But you can huild a fort if you have enough points and just block it

[lethal river]

I default to being prone most of the time but the grass blocks my vision on some maps LMAO

[still ledge]

Oh that happened to me alot in one map lmao

[lethal river]

That or I make a tiny gap in the wall and lay prone too

[still ledge]

I just gave up on the bipod and used other grips since i wanted to get into more run and gun

[lethal river]

Haha yeah

[still ledge]

Snd changed to the gc36 to see how the attachments help

bipod is in a perfect spot for me, not a straight upgrade and there are situations that other attachemnt shines

Also finding a spot to use it can be a pain sometimes

Specially if you have paranoia after just playing medic and heavy in tf2 and keep looking around waiting for a smg medic to get a drop on you

Or a suicidal c4 guy

[lethal river]

Yeah just a lil qol and it’d be perfect

Aha I know the pain of being a heavy main all too well

[still ledge]

Another "i like fatass hp characters that hit hard"

Based

[bright umbra]

Sucks that most the SMGs hit harder

[still ledge]

probably for the best to lmgs to not hit that hard ngl

[gilded dock]

My votes on the armor rework

[still ledge]

definetly

[gilded dock]

It's either that or extendo mags, and armor seems more urgent

[still ledge]

if we get the armour rework, even a gun like the mg36 can be good in the hands of support

[woeful linden]

Bruh why the MG36 so trash tho

[still ledge]

since you basically can be on the same ttk or just better with the armour you are using

and then you can work on the weapons from there

having a gun that is effective as a smg before fixing the class itself can make into a really bad meta in general

[still ledge]

i cant put my finger on it, but i think it is the low firerate and high recoil

the l86 is just better to use when comparing with the mg36

and the mag drum really dont help at all

[gilded dock]

A mag rework is the thing I want next after armor

[still ledge]

same story as old bipod

just too many debuffs

like even with the drum of the l86 you have less than recoil than the mg36 iirc

correct me if i am wrong

[idle valley]

i think it'd be really cool if the chamber was simulated, and you'd have to rack the bolt if there was no bullet in the chamber, but in return you'd have +1 bullet if you reload right after

[gilded dock]

Might be a bit more complex than a stats rework, unfortunately.

[idle valley]

oh, that kind of mag rework

[gilded dock]

Don't get me wrong, I also think that would be cool. I just would like him to rebalance extended mags to not be utter garbage first

[dry bobcat]

I thought that already happens. Reloading a gun when there's one in the chamber is faster than if there isn't, because you DO have to chamber a round.

[meager salmon]

You are correct.

[bright umbra]

Yes

Tactical Reload is a thing

[lethal river]

So this is all guns?

[bright umbra]

Yes

It’s supposed to be, but there’s some mistakes here and there.

[inner monolith]

Carbines don't really make sense, the way they're designed in game is for high speed gameplay. If FAL/SCAR/G3 got their own Battle Rifle category, that would fit though.

[idle valley]

reloads are faster when your magazine isn't empty, yes, but that's not the same thing as simulating a bullet being in the chamber

if you reload again, you'll still only have 30 bullets. not 30+1

[still ledge]

I mean
The bullet do magically goes together with the embpty magazine

So not like you are losing a bulled

[gilded canopy]

sooo

did they fix bipod?

[bright umbra]

they have indeed given it a buff

we have laid down our weapons for the moment

[gilded canopy]

🥺

[livid carbon]

m249 is no longer shit now and the ultimax is just || 🥵 ||

[flat sedge]

Howdy Lucuma & I would agree BRs would fit nicely

[flat sedge]

It no longer is debuffs everywhere on the stat bar, it is now you get a decrease to swap & ADS speeds but recoil reduction when deployed

[gilded canopy]

ultimax is a laser now, as intended, love it

it feels like the Negev from that csgo update

[livid carbon]

150m + lasering, no problem

just

🥵

[still ledge]

i prefer the m249 over the ultimax

i just find the looks better tthan the Ultimax

also i can defend myself more reliable at close ranges with the m249

[livid carbon]

but them lmgs are all about that dakka

[jade cairn]

Using the Ultimax makes me feel as if I am actually suppressing the enemy, as an LMG ought to do.

CQB ain’t great, but that’s what the Glock is for.

[bright umbra]

Brrrrt

[woven fossil]

Support still genuinely feels unfinished, just waiting for Armor Damage to be added to the balance maybe that will make it more viable.

Class's role is still so limited with its lack of primaries and not a single one of the 4 guns is arguably even close to the meta usefulness of say a p90 or heck even an m4

[fierce dawn]

i'd argue the L86 fills the same role as an M4

at base

once you have both kitted out, tho

[woven fossil]

the l86 is ok. mg36 kinda sucks m249 is good and the ultimax is uhhh... its accurate

or maybe they should nerf the AR SMG PDW so they actually have damn recoil and arent lasers

Swapping off support to a non-recon class should not feel like picking an easier difficulty

[fierce dawn]

the ultimax picks a lane and holds it down out to dummy long distances

the DPS isn't the point really

[woven fossil]

Yeah and people run out of the bullet stream before you can even kill them.
And armor isnt good enough for long term nesting anyways

Idk why the big damn machine guns have the worst damage for automatic weapons. its a joke

[fierce dawn]

killing 18 people in one mag without letting off the trigger, though

real support moment

[woven fossil]

yeah how often does that ever happen

spamming grenades is a better way to increase KDR than the guns because theyre so underpowered

[still ledge]

these stuff are happenning to me alot more, the bipod makes the job easier since you arent locked to CQC

but what happens aswell is either alot more people that i can handle come trough a single door or i get flanked

or i die before i can reach the angle i want to hold and forget about it

[gilded dock]

I think a spawn system change would alleviate the flanking problem

[still ledge]

ii think they did changed a bit

the raidous iirc

but honestlythe flanking part is just team issue or not using your building to delay the enemy

removing community servers that makes so you can spawn instantly

i hate those and love them with a burning passion

the only time you can get revenge on someone before forgeting about it

and the only time you are fighting a 1v1, only to turn the corner and see 6 guys pointing a gun at you

[jade cairn]

Depends on the gun.

The L86 is a fan favorite (though I’m not personally a fan) and the Ultimax is an absolute laser and truly is a suppressive fire weapon.

[fierce dawn]

nade spam just invites the trophies

which yk, fair enough

[woven fossil]

I like to call the Ultimax a high pressure water hose. Because laser beams tend to hurt things more

[jade cairn]

High pressure water ain’t something to play with.

That shit can cut steel.

[fierce dawn]

yeah uh

as someone who works with lasers professionally

high pressure water is much, much scarier

lmao

[still ledge]

Ultimax is like pressing the hole from a hose and aim at a small rock

You will be able to break the rock eventually just by hiting it without aiming elsewhere

[tepid jolt]

ngl lmgs could use higher velocity atleast 700 like m4

[flat sedge]

will stat this, it is a mix of the LMGs/LSGs having worse stats than their competitors (aka MG36 has the lowest FR & damage of the 3 tap weapons, along with more recoil than the other one that is similar (UMP) + normal LMG/LSG downsides)

M249 wise it has 3 upsides(double max damage range,slightly better vertical & the magazine size) compared to the M4 & every other stat pretty much is worse (Velocity, over 2x horz recoil,you get the idea)

ultimax is the ultimax, it is the long ranged LMG but it lacks the velocity compared to most ARs (it has 600, same as the MG36,and M249)

Bipod through has helped a deal at least

[woven fossil]

whats funny is the ultimax doesnt even feel that accurate since any magnified optic on an automatic jumps like an earthquake

[gilded canopy]

pros: they fixed bipod

cons: they made support even fucking slower

[livid carbon]

where did they make us slower

[jade cairn]

They made Exo armor more relevant.

[sweet sinew]

Put up a suggestion: move instant build to engineer and give support something more fitting for their role

Not sure why support became the building class

[gilded dock]

Supposedly Support is the primary defensive class, hence the barricades, but they don't really help him all that much... mostly because of other problems with the game.

[idle valley]

the barricades are great when you can get them to work, it feels really nice to set up defenses on a point and hold it for most of the game. but the problem is that you're fighting game mechanics (like squad spawning and not being able to build on points holy shit fucking remove that already you spastics) at every turn

[lethal river]

god i fucking hate spawn zones blocking building

[tepid jolt]

removing build cooldown would go a long way to make building feel good, like barbed wire already has no cooldown and it doesn’t break the game

[alpine hornet]

Yeah or like halve it at least

[fierce dawn]

i get why it cant be zero so you dont have some kinda instant fortress macro

but being able to pop up defenses faster would be super nice

[tepid jolt]

or at least make it be tied to individual rather than squad

[still ledge]

the only way to not even be affected by movement speed is just to play support 24/7 and you will think your movement speed is the base speed for everyone

play any other class once and you lose this mental effect

[flat sedge]

agreed

[flat sedge]

defensive based (slow weapons + heavy armor)

Be it, the current issues with those in the game at times

currently instant building at least help patch up support's weakness of legs (speed & armor) by allowing him a instant cover button

[still ledge]

hitting that m200 sniper with a barricade you pulled out of your ass to revive your teammates

i need to change the bind to something else because even when using the middle mouse it can still save me from dying

[jade cairn]

Why can’t barricades be assigned number pads so you can instantly select the barricade you want to drop?

[bright umbra]

I’m cranking fucking 90s

[gilded canopy]

this actually happens to me

i dont play any other class because support is my fav but my god coming back to support is hard af

[woeful linden]

Can't unsee all the teammates zooming past my fat ass to the A point. 😔

[still ledge]

My fatass trying to reach the medic with just one magazine left while trying to give him ammo

And then you get killed because you were hyper focused on it

[still ledge]

yeah

talk about spray and pray

fuck that accuracy shit

im just shooting in the general direction i think there is a enemy

it could be a bush but bullets dont care

[flat sedge]

Being honest, several techinques require some missing lol

would bet mine ain't much better than yours if it is any better

[still ledge]

i remember having 2% accurecy once

10 % more is a big upgrade ngl

[still ledge]

i think someone who is good with sniper and only play the clas would have a higher accuracy than most people

[bright umbra]

felt

[woven fossil]

Support defensive build idea.

Barbed sandbag.
One side is a sandbag, the "facing towards enemy" side is barbed wire. Can not be vaulted over by enemies

[fierce dawn]

support build idea: taller sandbag wall with a little notch for them to bipod up on

[flat sedge]

Moon to clarify you mean like the windowed sandbag walls?

[gilded dock]

Agreed. Windowed sandbags at the proper height would be wonderful

[flat sedge]

closer I have managed to this is a normal sandbag wall, break it down 3 times if I am thinking correctly & than place the windowed sandbag on top

and than put a normal sandbag infront for protection

[alpine hornet]

I too love the emergent sandbag stacking gameplay

[still ledge]

the most pratical one is just going to a higher elevation, picking a place where people can pass infront of you

[flat sedge]

I will be honest

[still ledge]

than put either two sandbags at your side or one sandbag on one and some prop on the other

than just prone

[flat sedge]

I would still love a sandbag wall at the basic even level height

makes it more teammate proof

(I have seen several teammates build the bottom, which destroys the windowed wall & thus now opens up EVERYONE to fire from the opposite side)

[still ledge]

i would like is basically being able to do a nest to use

idk if they would actually do this but to just remove deployables to be dependant on squad points

it either becomes nothing or you cant put shit because the squad leader is afk or doesnt know he is one

[flat sedge]

could make it so supports generate a small amount of deployable points of their own (with their own cap)

So you have your own caps of "Extra" deployables that don't conflict with allies'

(also means your ally doesn't stop you from building something when using those)

[still ledge]

ngl everytime we talk about deployable like this, the back of my head keeps mistaking like we are talking about the enginner lmao

[flat sedge]

if it helps, I think of the support as a architect

[still ledge]

since it is strange that support gravitates towards building more than the class that has its name that just means ''the guy that builds''

[flat sedge]

Well engineers are more than just builders

it is a interestingly broad term when you think of it

[still ledge]

he solves pratical problems

[flat sedge]

but engineer focuses on vehicles anyhow

they can support them or break them in equal measure

along with a side in the architect field via access to barb wire

[still ledge]

and a engie with repair tool is prob the rarest thing in the game

i remember going around asking for repairs

no one answered and i just gave up trying to play vehicles

[flat sedge]

minus in helios

[still ledge]

oh yeah

[flat sedge]

I have seen SEVERAL in those before

[still ledge]

the only time i saw was in a transport chooper

actual teamwork ngl

[flat sedge]

afew days ago I saw like 5 in the back seat of one

[still ledge]

lmao

[still ledge]

also that would would be amazing

also do deployable destruct themselfs when you try to build a new one?

if not having this or a destruct key would be nice

[flat sedge]

currently, to my knowledge no

could be wrong

[still ledge]

talking about that i rarely see deployables unless it is a literal fortress being build

whoever does this, you are amazing

actually like those because it makes shit look like a maze sometimes

[flat sedge]

you should see wakistan at times

very when I get busy on it lol

and assuming it isn't a flanking war every 5 minutes

[shadow walrus]

would b nice if buildings catered 2 bipod more

[bright umbra]

Me when my guy collapses his bipod just because I wanna use my top sight

[still ledge]

honestly if spamming an image of bipod made so we actually got a bipod buff

can we just spam the image of the mg3 to get a new weapon?

[drifting mulch]

I hate trying to use a bipod only for the wall to be slightly taller than my view

and if I get close my gun starts glitching like crazy going back and forth

[stark blade]

the sandbag wall with the firing slits in it should be changed to better fit a bipod when crouching

[paper vector]

It isn't supposed to, I'm pretty sure

[woeful linden]

So, what's the best building option for bipodding? I tried the concrete roadthing and tearing down a lil of the sandbags but nothing seemed to work

Seems better just to go prone

[fierce dawn]

like those but you know, good

[flat sedge]

sandbags for standing

[fierce dawn]

if you delete the cooldown then you dont need a special build for it

[flat sedge]

for crouching you'll want a barrier or another sandbag behind the wall

[fierce dawn]

but it takes like 5 walls to get decent cover while still being able to bipod up

and thats almost 2 minutes for someone to notice and c4 you

[flat sedge]

depends on where you setup

[inner monolith]

The cooldown is per wall type

So you can quickly cover a pretty wide area by throwing down a HESCO and two walls

[drifting mulch]

I like being a big fat fuck every now and then

[fierce dawn]

yeah so give a third useful style of wall so it goes faster

its fort time

[flat sedge]

normal bag, windowed, hesco and than a normal again

normal bag dig down 2-3 windowed on top, hesco to side with a normal in front to protect the base of the other

could also do a barrier behind to teammate proof it

[bright umbra]

Posting a picture of an MG3 until support gets more primaries - Day 1

Take up arms men.

[drifting mulch]

lmfao
the bipid meme worked I guess?

[bright umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-wanna-see-me-do-it-again-gif-14496504

[drifting mulch]

yes

[woeful linden]

Bipod meme was probably a coincidence, they were talking about attachment rework for some time now.

[bright umbra]

SSSHHH DONT RUIN THE MAGIC

[flat sedge]

day 1

[flat sedge]

won't know til we start the chant again

we need to figure out how the formula works as well

[dry bobcat]

Can you add a stronger border to the letters, and not just a shadow? It might make it pop more

[flat sedge]

didn't make it

[weary garden]

Russian guns soon for sure

[bright umbra]

I will 🫡

[livid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1173460046441631775/image.png?ex=656408d4&is=655193d4&hm=3338f36d46777b846c3664c2362a0a0178e61aab8f9309c218d28c04f09b35b4&

[flat sedge]

Oki has Russian Bias?

[weary garden]

Iunno

[flat sedge]

can russian exo face plate absorb a tank shell where the US one doesn't?

lol

jokes aside

RPK could be interesting

PKP wise I am curious how it will fit in the armory

[gilded canopy]

day 45237624573 of asking devs to add DMR's to support

it wont break the game, trust me bro i swear

[tepid jolt]

there is no reason to add dmrs to support lol

[gilded canopy]

why?

it would patch the issue of support having little to no weapons and would solve the issue of support being so slow, every other fucking class in the game has variety to choose in their gameplay except sniper, why woudn't let support have DMR's?

[paper vector]

“Little to no weapons”

That phrase is just quite funny in this context

[paper vector]

DMRs are not faster for movement speed than LSWs though, it would not change how fast they run

[gilded canopy]

i swear to god everytime a support main tries to recommend something the most insufferable people that never actually speak here come to say stupid shit

what i propose would solve 2 issues without almost any work

[gilded canopy]

they are, especially when you consider the attachments and how usable they are with/without them

[paper vector]

I speak here every day wdym

[paper vector]

The LSWs are 0.95 speed and DMR speeds are between like 0.94 and 0.97

The attachments aren’t really different at all

Aside from scopes?

The issue I have with support having DMRs is that is makes them a bit overpowered at long ranges. Being able to take a DMR and exo armour at the same time would just make you a more durable sniper.

[gilded canopy]

that already has a natural counter, exo armour is slow as fuck and doesnt let reposition properly, it only takes 2 hits with the m200 to kill an exo

[paper vector]

For everything else it takes one hit

Being slow matters very little when you aren’t very close to the enemy

Still gonna easily move behind cover before a second shot

[inner monolith]

The Ultimax is so stable you can still go head to head with DMRs and snipers even at medium ranges

And armor breaks anyway so even if you trade shots with a sniper they can heal back up and you'll still be one shottable next time

If armor finally becomes decent i.e. stops breaking then I would support making exo helmet block the use of medium scopes and above as night vision does just to prevent that kind of cheese

[gilded dock]

Bruh, no

[inner monolith]

Bruh why do you even need medium scopes on support

Ultimax is the only weapon on which they're usable and you have enough bullets to just track hitmarkers anyway

[gilded dock]

Because I like automatic weapons on which medium scopes are actually usable

And so far that's just the aug, f2, ultimax, and the dmrs, which don't really count

[inner monolith]

So... what does that have to do with exo helmet?

Only the Ultimax interacts with that and I already addressed that case

[gilded dock]

Because support is slow by default, and he is built defensively. Having something to defend against snipers, even if it's only for one hit, makes it so he's not constantly being one tapped before he can actually do anything

[paper vector]

Yeah, but it has fairly poor damage dropoff and velocity which makes it a poor replacement for a sniper or DMR

[paper vector]

I use slip on m249 and L86 also, it’s pretty manageable

I mainly use slip so I can actually see people who are further away though (my monitor is small)

[sweet sinew]

DMRs don't really fit the niche support is supposed to fill, which is heavy sustained firepower on a slow moving, up-armored platform.

They don't really fit engineers role either, I'm still curious why they have them, but shrug

[bright umbra]

They already have a DMR, the RPG-7…

[sweet sinew]

Bueno....

[fierce dawn]

You can take my FLIR Ultimax over my dead body

Mounting scope is the only way to get a the nicest red dot stuck to the top

[still ledge]

Im always skepticial about the armour rework if we get one

It is something i kinda dont agree with but i see where you are coming from

If armour becomes good, support basically has the chance to be an amazing class

And the fact hes designed to be a defense class, can make him be so annoying to fight

Defensive class, mechanics and units have the chance to make the match and game be really boring when they are that good

[weary garden]

defensive buffs can be replied with offensive ones

however avoiding power creep is something that we should be aware of, specifically looking at things like explosives.

[inner monolith]

Even better then, you won't have to switch every time you spawn because the scope will be blocked

[fierce dawn]

don't forget Assault also gets heavy armor

if it's worth taking you have buffed the two classes that need it most

[still ledge]

Power creeps are aswell priority when it comes to balacing

But though sometimes offensive meta guns, weapons etc mostly font change the ideia of a game, that is being focus on offense and pushing

While defensivo meta just brings the match to a stop because everyone will be focused on sitting on a point and not moving since why do it if the defense of the enemy is close to unbreakable

[bright umbra]

Day 2 of posting a picture of the MG3 until Support gets more primaries

[still ledge]

Tbh you are killing your offensive capabilitites to be more tankier

So it quite balanced it out

To support is a different story

You are already tanky than the average class and can keep you resupplied with ammo and utility if you survive

That is on paper ofc

[still ledge]

I kinda disagree on it because i dont want to get sniped so hard by someone that can survive a headshot from a sniper rifle

But though we could reach this level of variety with the lmgs already
Ultimax basically being a rrally weaker dmr on long ranges but can go toe to toe with dmrs and sniper rifles in mid range
We could have aswell one that has a really high firerate etc

Dmr just feels kinda wrong with the class in my opinion

[gilded canopy]

ok give us battle rifles idk, we need another weapon class tbh as a support

i know that the problem should be solved by having more weapons, but right now is too much work coming too late

support should not had to be released with just 4 weapons in the first place and thats a fuck up of the devs, but it can be solved

i agree that there is a worry about support being a tanky sniper with dmr's

i do also think that the idea of restricting x4 scopes on dmr's with exo armour should be ideal if they can do it

the semi-auto high damage nature of the dmr's could go really well with support, being a mid range, back of the line class

[hot solar]

tbh the only way i see support being on par with the other classes it ether a movement rework or a armor rework

a movement rework would strengthen it with offensive capability
a armor rework would strengthen its defensive capabilities

and the thing is most game modes are capturer and defend objectives and rn no class is really good defending objectives because the offensive power of really fast movement+smgs+c4 are so strong i think that buffing armor wouldn't actually be to strong to competely break camping objectives

also a armor rework would still help the aggressive classes also attacking objectives

[heavy sage]

we just need an armour repair kit

and destroyed armour shouldnt debuff

i think thats enough of a buff

plus it gives another purpose for support

reparing allies armor

[hot solar]

like tbh rn medic is still best at attack and defending because medic can get heavy armor, it has assault rifles with 50 round drum mags, p90, and can heal indefinitely.

like support is only good for getting ammo but its still really easy to just die amd respond on someone to get ammo back as a medic

[heavy sage]

the issue with medic is that they have way too many gun categories

give smgs to assault, not medic

[hot solar]

ya its crazy that if you wanna play assault play medic they have better assault weopons
wanna play support play medic with heavy armor and an assault rifle with a drum mag
wanna play anti vehicle engineer well play medic with c4
wanna play DMR recon well play as medic with one of the 200m assault rifles

like the only classes it cant copy are a engineer focused on vehicle repair or bolt actions recons

[paper vector]

It can't do any of the things that make the other classes unique which makes this seem weird to me. Those are things every class (bar maybe recon) can do

[still ledge]

Movement buff or rework on support would be against the whole thing this class is about and again you can just ditch exo and go with medium or heavy armour to be alot faster than with the exo

Not that he shouldnt have any offense, but it would be something difficult to balance
An armour rework or to be more precise something that makes exo better would make so all of your guns can do a better job since you can take more punishment and be on par on kills with other weapons

[hot solar]

no that's what I'm saying
I'd rather rework armor to support its defensive play stile

[still ledge]

With is like the one part that makes me be skeptical
Make exo good and then the weapons he has can have a better time but a good weapon right now like the ultimax can be waaay too much

But it can be just me

[still ledge]

Oh my bad then

[hot solar]

I'm just saying a armor rework wouldn't be that bad for the game

because it wouldn't just be a buff for support but for all classes because they all have armor

[still ledge]

That but exo would still be the tankier one still
The one rework im thinking is just higher health on armour though
There is one type that is just to make an armour ressuply to support i saw around

[shell hound]

Ultimax is good, but it is not be the end-all class defining weapon that some of you take it out to be.

[still ledge]

I think i never said that

[hot solar]

tbh when most people talk about a armor rework its ether give a way to repar armor or make it a % change so it no longer brakes but you still take the same amount of shots to kill at full health with the armor on

i dont think I've heard about just a flat armor heath increase

[still ledge]

I did heard somewhere
But also it is just the fastest aproach to do it

[still ledge]

There was also another one that when it breaks you get some movement speed back

This one i actually like

Being slow while carrying the ghost of your plate armour

[hot solar]

ya ultimax isn't that op it's basically a aug but with a big drum mag with less damage and slower movement its good at range not so good up close

[still ledge]

more because you are in a ideal position as support, mid range, proned with some cover and you can be effective

just that you get fucked if someone gets close to you

[shell hound]

It's not by far. Really the only thing it has is accurate long range sustained fire, which is only dangerous if you stay in the line of fire for more than 4 seconds.

[still ledge]

with is why i just pick the m249 and a 2,5 sight

[hot solar]

don't forget your also very vulnerable to m200 also
or other recon if your wearing a different helmet

[still ledge]

honestly i would say it before, but you can work around it with buildings

also the attachment changes that made so you can survive a shot

but yeah still dangerous

[shell hound]

Either way, the MGs all need reduced recoil and slight damage boost. Screw the crackhead medics, they should NOT be able to charge a support player from 100m while spraying their SMG and win because their narrow cone of fire beats the MG's ridiculous recoil bounce.

[flat sedge]

day2

[still ledge]

tbh that goes to almost every gun against smgs

they can kill shit so far away so easy

[flat sedge]

forgot slower reload,ads as well

[hot solar]

oh ya

[still ledge]

one thing i had in mind is to make their velocity higher

i mean you are using a gun based on either close- medium range or medium- long range

[hot solar]

i forgot about that thank good for it to

[flat sedge]

fair, most LMGs & LSWs are 600 (excluding 650 on L86) where most ARs are like 700+

[still ledge]

maybe a reverse

[heavy sage]

i need a equivelant of a scorpion evo on support

[still ledge]

like ars 600 and lmgs ad lsws 700

[flat sedge]

Agreed

[still ledge]

mg3 could fill that role

[heavy sage]

like crazy ass recoil but with 1100rpm

[heavy sage]

based

[still ledge]

i want a gun that can clean my drum in 10 seconds

and make me go out of ammo in 20

[heavy sage]

like almost useless without bipod past 30m

[hot solar]

tbh lmgs are normally considered far range weopons because of accuracy with volume of bullets

[heavy sage]

but it rips

[still ledge]

would still be fun though

[heavy sage]

exactly

[still ledge]

also thank god killing smgs users faster

[heavy sage]

it would be super fun

[flat sedge]

4 tap MG3 at 1100 RPM sound nice

[heavy sage]

whats the ttk of that

it shouldnt be faster than scorp

[flat sedge]

slower than scorp

[still ledge]

fuck

[heavy sage]

k good

[flat sedge]

to be precise

scorp has a FR of 1200 at 4 tap (26)

[still ledge]

tbh 100 less rpm for more boolets

you can do what every lmg users dreams for

[flat sedge]

Well 100 less rpm,longer ADS,reload time & so on

[still ledge]

killing like 10 people that are coming in a corridor

[heavy sage]

i just wanna be able to go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt and the person in front of me turns into dust

[flat sedge]

insert the standard MG downsides

[heavy sage]

as long as it has really high recoil it should be balanced

[still ledge]

ads i kinda dont mind atleast if this weapon comes to exist

[heavy sage]

cause it would require bipod for even slighly extended range

[flat sedge]

not saying you would mind longer ADS per say

[still ledge]

but it would still be there yeah

[flat sedge]

simply mentioning the standard issue downsides of MGs

personally I wouldn't mind if the MG3 was 1200 RPM at a 4 tap through

[still ledge]

i think no one would

[heavy sage]

People would complain

[flat sedge]

being honest I would 100% make you a bet

people would

and I don't bet on things often

[heavy sage]

theyd be like "waaaaaaaaaaa a decent gun on support"

[still ledge]

i bet a steam game that is less tan 5 real here

[heavy sage]

and then it gets nerfed into oblivion

[flat sedge]

but yea, most support guns support a below average DPS to their peers

[still ledge]

yes i use roblox currency

[flat sedge]

aka MG36 vs UMP, Groza, and Fal as a example

M249 vs the automatic rifles as another

[still ledge]

i see why they do that, but most of the time is just not worth that extra mag capacity

[heavy sage]

m249 is actually reasonably balanced imo

[still ledge]

with the lsws i mean

is just too many debuffs on a weapon that is supposed to be a worse ar

to be even worse

[flat sedge]

Well heavier AR

[still ledge]

higher recoil

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/852957790942134342/970854903289372744/636856998331416576.gif

[flat sedge]

LSWs should be the little aggressive brother to LMGs

[still ledge]

this

one category focuse on defensive playstyle

[flat sedge]

and the bigger brother but slower to setup brother to ARs

[still ledge]

the other on agressive with are the lsws

[flat sedge]

But to use the M249 as a example

you got a 700 RPM 4 tap

dps is on paper exact same as a M4A1

main issue is the whole it has how many downsides with 3 upsides

(upsides are a bit less vertical, 2x max damage range & bigger magazine by default)

(downsides are over 2x worse Hrecoil, less velocity, standard MG downsides insert here & so on)

[still ledge]

it is a gun focused on a more defensive playstyle, altough comparing to the ultimax is the most agressive one aswell, i think most of the downsides are ok to have, more reload time, longer ads etc when comparing to what you get on defensive and how you can increase it further with bipod and some attachment

probably the only downside i dont like is the velocity

Hrecoil can be debated but it may be harsh

[still ledge]

so i guess a little bit less recoil so it still has a downside but not that much

[flat sedge]

well Warmou, to explain why I say this

I am okay with the standard issue downsides of a MG (longer draw, slower ADS & a long reload)

but 2x+ H recoil + less velocity tends to be a bad combo for a gun with a max damage range of twice of the other

(for reference on a comparison graph it looks like when you put the old bipod on)

[still ledge]

yeah i agree on that note

[flat sedge]

if this thing was a more aggressive pick, I could see the reason behind more H recoil

("was a more aggressive pick" referring to stuff like HK419 & the like)

[still ledge]

they probably had this in mind because comparing to the ultimax is basically the one when you want to sacrifice range to be able to defend yourself more effective in closer ranges

but comparing to everything it is bad

you can be a bit effective in medium ranges with it but you can fall behind if you dont create a setup before fighting

m249 is probably the gun that doesnt know what it wants lmao, you are not good in close ranges when smgs and ars are more effective, mid range you are at your most capable fighting term but only if you setup some barricades, and be aiming at the enemy before the fight, and long range your recoil says no but your damage fall off says yes

[flat sedge]

It is a confused middle child to say the least

[still ledge]

i dont mind if this was a playstyle but it is what you are locked with it

you cant even build to long ranges

[still ledge]

basically

jack of all trades master of none

but somewhat poorly

[flat sedge]

M249 & MG36 both kinda do below average in honesty

ultimax has a niche it fills at the very least decently well

[gilded dock]

Ultimax with bipod straight up has no recoil

It is the ultimate "Don't peek me if you value your life" weapon.

[hot solar]

that's most assault rifles with no bipod holding you still as well so i dont see it as that big of a problem

unless your saying its a good thing

then ya its pog

[still ledge]

good ammount of ammo per bag and a reasonable reload speed

definetly the weapon to hold a sightline in long range maps

i remember coubntering a sniper qith that

[gilded dock]

I was saying it's a good thing. Ultimax has a niche, and bipod works really well with it

[hot solar]

I remember people saying that support should be able to build MG placements but it would be way cooler if MG was an actual weopon option for support
like it starts with a bipod and if your not using it you can only hip fire while unbipoded and it still has really high recoil when bipoded compared to other guns but you can still get up and move. If you want it to be accurate you get the option to place a actual mg stand that lets you shot it like the gun on one of the mg trucks but your locked in place and cant move unless you unmount from it

would give some much needed weopon choice to support lol

and it be kinda cool

[flat sedge]

depends on range & such

[still ledge]

actually quite like this ideia

a actual more defensive focused lmg, it could have its own bipod with its own buff when compared to other's lmg bipods, less recoil when deployed, more accuracy etc

[hot solar]

eh no the normal bipod shouldn't make it really any more accurate just make it aimable, the buildable stand for it would make it as accurate at a car MG. Like a downside for it could be only 25 rounds before needing reloaded and 4 boxes of ammo for it and it be real slow to reload

[gilded dock]

90-180 degree fire angle, and give it a gun shield to protect the gunner

vulnerable from the back, but hard to kill from the front

[shell hound]

And still get nailed by an M200. You do realize why HMGs are routinely mounted on vehicles and not found within infantry is because they can move out of a kill box a lot faster while laying down heavy fire with the vehicle, right? We're not making Tachanka from Siege.

[flat sedge]

all guns currently on infantry are lasers in terms of CoF & Bloom

[flat sedge]

Black beard?

[shell hound]

AFAIK he ain't getting shot in that shield by .408 Cheytac.

[flat sedge]

More meant towards the siege bit

[sweet sinew]

More LMGs and LSWs are coming which should hopefully fill that niche, the game is still in heavy beta and Oki has said there's plans for way more support weapons

Would be nice if support had access to rifles with specific mag attachments, like an M4 with a 80rd drum mag (with all the penalties that entails)

[bright umbra]

Day 3 of posting an MG3 until support gets more primaries

[flat sedge]

from the wiki

[paper vector]

There are no ARs that come anywhere close to a bipod ultimax in terms of recoil

[sweet sinew]

M4 maybe, things a laser

[paper vector]

That has more horizontal recoil and more fire rate

[gilded dock]

So far the only AR's to contest me are the AUG and occasionally the F2

[still ledge]

Oki does a trolling and instead of an arsenal for support we get just the mg3 so we stop spamming

[flat sedge]

day 3

[flat sedge]

still be a mobile laser I would say, may not be as stable through

[still ledge]

support players living on life support by now

if we get new weapons in some update and none are for support im going to cry

[flat sedge]

well lets look at the list

[flat sedge]

We got

LMGs
MG3,MG5, M60, PKP & QJY-201 (a chinese pkp of sorts)

LSWs
Aug HBAR, and RPK-16

Pistols (Assuming we count these as support guns)
5/7 and Beretta 93R

[still ledge]

problem is when

😔

[flat sedge]

side note : would the 5/7 be a pistol or with the desert eagle & revolvers?

[livid carbon]

normal pistol

[dry bobcat]

Talk is cheap, MG3 now!

[still ledge]

namak is a good map for the m249 holy shit

40 kills and 10 deaths most of the time in the place with alot of trees around the C point

[flat sedge]

MG3 day 4 early?

also we keep forgeting MG5

[livid carbon]

and m60, pkp, bing chilling pkp, rpk and aug hbar

[flat sedge]

true

[bright umbra]

Day 3 of posting an MG3 until support gets more primaries

[livid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1174230419324031048/9gAAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC.png?ex=6566d64c&is=6554614c&hm=c8fd573be52fc785bf99dcf1ddc6af01961d511e872cfefdd0a0604057c2ea13&

[livid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1174261765111033856/IMG_1586.png?ex=6566f37d&is=65547e7d&hm=4f755d768fe14beb40007b7f62848d62b772e880d35fb4101275baca0ad6b583&

[livid carbon]

those are the base versions, not the military one
(assault) grip on the side

[flat sedge]

was first one I found lol

[livid carbon]

well the bundeswehr has a yt channel (for some reason lmao) and there they showcased the version they use with a 640rpm, 720rpm and 800rpm selection for the firerate on the gasblock i think it is, a bipod and an assault grip for sudden enemy contact/cqb

[bright umbra]

Almost every national military does

[livid carbon]

excuse me what the fuck

[bright umbra]

RAF have one… USAF have one…

Even sub branches of the military, like the navy

[livid carbon]

well usaf (and raf) are kind of famous/obvious

[hot solar]

its more of ya they have more recoil but they are really easy to control so it still a valid statement

[paper vector]

“Really easy to control” depends on the range

[gilded dock]

Like I said: Aug and F2. Thems got hands at range. The M4 also does.

[livid carbon]

but not like the ultimax, 0.8ish in vertical and 0.4 in horizontal, allows for accurate fire up to 150m 😳

[lethal river]

Announcements i'm praying 🙏

[real latch]

AUG has high velocity too, LMG amx out at 660

[gilded dock]

Yes, well, nobody said that Oki has ever treated Support well

[shell hound]

And anyone that has, never played Support.

[gilded dock]

True that

[jade cairn]

The rebalance wasn’t even a deliberate support buff.

It was an everything else Nerf.

[flat sedge]

which rebalance?

[jade cairn]

Attachments.

Removed damage buffs/nerfs on all barrels.

[flat sedge]

So the 3 barrels that did it

[jade cairn]

Yes.

[flat sedge]

and the vamb if I recall

[jade cairn]

SDN.

[flat sedge]

personally I find it just as a rebalance, not exactly a nerf per say but not a buff either, beside on afew guns

[jade cairn]

That meant guns could no longer blast through Exo armor as easily.

[flat sedge]

True

equally legs

so didn't matter that much

[jade cairn]

Importantly for Support, Exo helmets now protect against a headshot.

Even from the M200.

Ranger barrel no longer allows M200 to one-tap Exo at point blank.

[flat sedge]

aye

also bipod is a nice attachment now

rather than red boards the weapon

[jade cairn]

Yeah.

[gilded canopy]

fr i feel like devs just hate support and try to do the bare minimum so we dont complain

[still ledge]

it could be just that they thought before the class was in a good state until it wasnt

the only thing i have no ideia is why to make him only have 4 guns in total

atlleast we are geting like 6 more guns just for him

[jade cairn]

Support is the antithesis of the meta.

The meta favors lighter/no armor and snappy quick-killing close range weapons.

The only part support has of that is the fact most of the guns do kill quickly.

[still ledge]

if support becomes meta

im sure the game will be much worse than the early medic smg meta we had

i just imagine either a full squad with supports or is a support + engie and assault to keep spamming explosives and grenades as much as possible

because without that, the pain to break a choke against a team of heavy armoured players that build a fort on a dime will be really unfun

[weary garden]

Grenade trophy goes both ways

[flat sedge]

suppose the kill quickly is relative
(Ultimax comes to mind)

[woven fossil]

isnt ultimax literally tied for worst TTK of any automatic

[flat sedge]

Depends on the term automatic in use

but 4 shot kill at 600 rpm (10 RPS)

to my knowledge through it is tied with aug on worse fully automatic TTK

could be wrong

[bright umbra]

Day 4 of posting an MG3 until support gets more primaries

[livid carbon]

what about the mk14 ebr 💀

[idle valley]

yes, mk14 is tied with the ultimax and aug

[sweet sinew]

Once again, proving that TTK is a garbage "stat" that should be roundly ignored

[shell hound]

TTK is based on an unarmored target that isn't moving unless otherwise stated.... and we all know that rarely happens. Damage, fire rate, velocity, first shot recoil modifier, V and H recoil are the biggest stats to look at IMO.

[paper vector]

PP-19 and MK-14 are the only slower ones, generally speaking

[paper vector]

AUG is much higher up

Well actually not that much, just a bit

It used to be a lot with long barrels but it can’t do that any more

[still ledge]

Then becomes who can setup on a point first

Further making taking a fortified objective close to impossible if you are playing on a gamemode with no vehicles and or the skill of the enemy pilots and yours are really different

It does encourage more teamplay but to make that possible in a room with more than 200 players can be difficult

[flat sedge]

I would say considered more equal rather than superior

[paper vector]

Doesn’t have to be. Can easily factor armour, and moving doesn’t affect it.

Damage on its own is a useless stat for anything below a DMR

[shell hound]

TTK is based on the assumption that all rounds will hit the target regardless of factors. It's a calculation in a vacuum and not representative of actual performance.

[paper vector]

Whether or not all rounds hit the target is mostly irrelevant, but it’s trivial to do ttk with lower hit rates if you like

The only thing low hit rates affect is slight benefit to high fire rate guns (which comes from the default benefit low fire rate guns have being less important)

Properly calculated ttk would be exactly representative of actual performance because it is exactly what happens in game

We don’t have perfect ttk, but we can get very very close

[flat sedge]

also hitscan

[bright umbra]

Day 5 of posting an MG3 until support gets more primaries

[royal hare]

https://tenor.com/view/mg42-bfv-reloads-gif-20380681

[livid carbon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1138399550210576466/1174998734527008870/IMG_1586.png?ex=6569a1d8&is=65572cd8&hm=99e33ebcafae2ac99111335f9d8fbf8e85f63adc1b22343ca7498c4e97bb9783&

[fierce dawn]

tbh thats a fair assumption for the ultimax. its a laserbeam (just not one that hurts a lot)

[flat sedge]

day 5 or 6

also we keep forgetting MG5

[still ledge]

give us a chautchaut

make so it has a 30% to jam

make that shit be actually bad and worthless to flex on the french

[fierce dawn]

but the famas already existrs

[still ledge]

reason why we arent doing it right

[bright umbra]

Day 6 of posting an MG3 until support gets more primaries

[chrome marsh]

been advocating for this since week 1. Insane that it's been months and we still are stuck with the same 4 guns. They're not bad, but support players are just bored to death of using them.

also let us not hinder ourselves by only expecting to run LMGs, If support could rock an AS VAL or some DMRs i'd be a happy man till the end of eternity

[livid carbon]

as val and dmrs don't have that dakka tho

[chrome marsh]

agreed, but listen to my next proposition

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-tf2memes-tf2heavy-heavy-weapons-guy-meet-the-heavy-gif-24983567

[livid carbon]

we are already heavy weapons guy

[chrome marsh]

where's the minigun tho

[livid carbon]

(helicopter)

although if Larrys Buzzsaw (MG3) gets added we will have something similar i reckon

[woeful linden]

God, I can't wait for an actual high RoF LMG.

[chrome marsh]

hard to imagine this ever happening because move speed is a permanent weakness of support.

Fragging out with medic is just that easier because you reach the action faster, cross lines-of-sight with a lot more ease and pull big flanks.

No ammount of good guns will put support in a place where he can do the same. Unless you are playing on one of those packed DOM servers with close-quarters map, going from point A to B in whatever map is just depressing

[livid carbon]

yeah it feels so weird having to burst the m249 and only getting 3 shots within a pretty long trigger press

[chrome marsh]

a big man gun attached to a vehicle is not a big man gun.

[livid carbon]

if you let the enemies run into your lmg lane you can get a pretty good amount of kills

[heavy sage]

support shouldnt be meta

its not a up close fighting class

[chrome marsh]

I didn't say you can't frag out. I consistently get close to the top of the scoreboard playing mostly support but that's me playing around it's weaknesses. As I've said, get into a CQ DOM 127v127 and enjoy your level farm.
but then go into a conquest or any bigger map/gamemode and you'll find yourself having to force-respawn unless you want to play walking simulator and medics are running at 3x your speed.

[heavy sage]

its a support class

its in the name

[flat sedge]

as is Medic, but Look where we are

also support could be short for fire support or such

[heavy sage]

yeah class balance is generalyl fucked

[flat sedge]

current top fragger is medic for meta picks, followed by engineer, than it's a toss up between assault & recon based on who you ask and finally support

[chrome marsh]

what in the name of each class is stopping them from playing the way they are?
why do engineers get access to sniping with dmrs? they're engineers!!!

/s

[flat sedge]

I've found it a safe bet to pick a location like around a point & go "This is mine now. no touchy"

[chrome marsh]

also support is already a close-quarters class in the current iteration of the game. All of the machine-guns suck at range and explosives are better at confined spaces anyway.

[flat sedge]

said location depends on team balance & map through

[heavy sage]

this is so wrong lol

[livid carbon]

the ultimax would digress

[heavy sage]

the lmgs do not suck at range

ultimax without bipod is already laser

and just use bipod with m249 to get close to that

[chrome marsh]

close to mid-range. anything above 60m and you're mostly losing to assault rifles

[livid carbon]

ultimax' effective range is 50-150m and m249s is 0-125m

[heavy sage]

only if they shoot first

ive been able to full auto m249 with bipod pretty easily past 60m

[chrome marsh]

being able to? surely.
but is it optimal to play them like that? no way.

[flat sedge]

L86 wise is decent-good up close

depends on matchup but 775 RPM at 4 tap

[livid carbon]

ultimax is optimal on 50-150m

[chrome marsh]

i have about 4k kills with the l8 so I'm proably biased towards the close quarters game. But also the use of explosives feel like I should extract a lot more from the class if I'm putting myself in the range for the explosives to be effective.

[flat sedge]

in fairiness explosives in general just hurt, why I tend to keep a trophy system 24/7

[still ledge]

Thats why i said if
But you can make it possible in a unhealthy way by making his defense capability alot stronger

Thats why support or any defensive focused class in general can never be too good or close to meta
It can be good but easy to counter and being outmatched in some instance(movement speed, ttk etc)
While have stuff that makes up for it(survivability, sustain fire etc)

[flat sedge]

being honest the survivability is up for debate

sustain fire isn't useful if you don't have the ability to do it without death

[chrome marsh]

Fair enough. Personally the support is already in a good spot defense-wise.
I've seen a lot of people making the argument that he should be able to get back his armor via supply pack. Or that the engi should be the one repairing armors and helmets to nurture classes being able to support one another.

I'm just truly baffled to still being limited to 4 main guns. The second class with the least amount of guns in their arsenal is the Recon with about 11 main guns.
The engi, medic and assault have about 20+ options. (edited to correct the values)

It's not hindering the strenght or balancing of the class, but it hinders the enjoyability of playing as a support. It's limiting in a way that simply doesn't make sense for how battlebit is played.

People making the argument that the support should only be the suppressive-fire LMG class always have this very purist view of how the class should be played, much like in the early days of the game people were saying how medic should be the only class to self heal. We all know how that was changed for the best tho.

[still ledge]

Yeah i would say that it was just a broad example but you get what i mean

Defense capability qould be the correct one

[flat sedge]

last I checked recon has 11

leader 18

assault 22

medic like 24

engineer 29/39 (lacks 4 from support + the 6 snipers)

Suppressive fire ain't good without either a suppression mechanic or REALLY good TTK when setup proper

[chrome marsh]

yeah I just checked and you are correct for all of them.
Even then, it's just a crazy difference that even another specialized class such as the reckon has almost 3x the options. And it's not even comparable to the 20+ that other classes are getting.

I'll stand by my point: If support had access to carbines and DMRs it would still be a unique class because it is not the guns that define it's identity.

It's the heavy armors, the ability to supply ammo and quick building. That's what truly defines the support in battlebit.

Forcing support to also be the suppressive-fire-only class is simply narrow-minded.

[weary garden]

engi is 29

[chrome marsh]

I think he meant 29/39 as in 39 being the total main guns in the whole game.

[weary garden]

o yea that would be true

[flat sedge]

did say 29 out of 39, be it I could've been more precise

[flat sedge]

always said Support is the defensive class in building, personal & holding areas

[still ledge]

The closest we have is bleeding

[chrome marsh]

agreed. Another curious thing that I've been saying since week 1 is how buildings will net you 0 xp even though they can change the entire course of a game.

[flat sedge]

which is very ignorable by medics, the top fragger

mixed with them having higher DPS guns

which are still more accurate at times

[still ledge]

It still is something
You can see the difference on how people play after geting shot when comparing to servers that have it off

People tend to be alot more agressive when bleeding is turned off
Many times when i shot someone they would immediatly turn the corner to shoot me back
While on official servers or with it on they tend to run away while using the bandage or holding a position so i can come to them

It is mot that dangerous or doesnt change gameplay that much after winning 1v1s since they have a lot of seconds to bandage but it does have some mental effect

You could make it more deadly for its damage but have so it is not until you die or bandage yourself
Make it have more % chance to inflict depending on the caliber or type of weapon

Smgs have a low %
Lmgs and sniper rifles have more % etc

Prob the only time i say bleed helps is with sniper
Since you basically put a player out of comission for alot more time

[woven fossil]

what if exo armor had some kind of multiplier for the rearside?

could help for prone nesting maybe

or, at the very very very minimum bare bones least. SMGs shouldnt have TTKs of shotguns against the heaviest armor in the game I cant believe the game still feels like this

[gilded dock]

If c4 was changed, and squad spawning was addressed, I'd be okay with Supports kit. I had a great game on one map simply because I fortified the roof of a small building, with firelanes for my bipod setup.

...Until a squad of dudes spawned nearby and c4ed the entire building with no warning.

[weary garden]

That's actually so real

Squad spawning is my mortal enemy

[gilded dock]

I find I have better games on 64 vs 64 servers

[bright umbra]

Day 7 of posting a MG3 until Support gets more primaries

[drifting mulch]

Gimme mg3

[weary fog]

c4 just needs an animation. Right now you can spam them all instantly

also

Mg3 bottom text

[fickle bluff]

My general feedback is that Support is in a good place from an abilities perspective, but desperately needs more choice in weapons.

I think everyone agrees that we need some additional LMGs, and I'm sure we'll get them. I'd also like to see a second class for some flexibility. DMRs would be nice. Not sure what else.

[jade cairn]

Spam the above picture and we might just get the MG3.

[dusty osprey]

support is a fantastic class and is in an exceptional position rn. More guns.

[bright umbra]

Day 8 of posting a MG3 until support gets more primaries

[obsidian sentinel]

Dmrs for support might be a really huge buff

Knowing how to build effectively in combination of dmrs is going to be really strong

More LMGs is definetly necessary

[sweet sinew]

Nah to DMRs, if anything then battle rifles, but honestly keeping them specialized as a LMG specialist feels best

The only weird part is other classes not having this kind of weapon specialization

[gilded dock]

There just needs to be more consistency with the whole game in general

If other classes have multiple weapon categories, then Support should too.

[bright umbra]

eeerm, akshually, support has multiple, as 2 is a multiple of 1 🤓

[still ledge]

Kill this guy with hammers

[paper vector]

It does, LMGs and LSWs

[still ledge]

And you only have 4 options out of them

[obsidian sentinel]

i mean i like that hes specialized but kinda inconsistent between all the classes

only support and sniper feel specialized

[still ledge]

Recom has the same specialization but one has alot more options

[obsidian sentinel]

engineer,medic and assault are generally all rounders with assault and somehow engineer have dmrs

[still ledge]

Even getting something close to an assault rifle

[obsidian sentinel]

yeah Recon getting essentially a heavy AR is quite something