Support - Feedback

[clear maple]

At least, I thought they could the 2 times I've actually seen it in game

[celest kraken]

what do you guys mean? a single c4 can deconstruct all barbed wire in like a 5m radius!

[gilded dock]

It's a bit slow, but yeah

If you want to be stealthy, you can deconstruct barbed wire like any other structure

Yeah, c4 makes a lot of things moot

They should give every class except assault and engy something like c2 instead, so they can still break walls and at least damage vehicles, but can't instakill people or structures

[celest kraken]

breaching charges?

[gilded dock]

Exactly

[celest kraken]

Maybe something like "shaped charges" which does the current c4 damage to vehicles but doesnt absolutely flatten walls and players?

like, it could do a high damage line through the surface it is placed on but not knock out more than maybe a brick or two

And then we could have something like "demolition charges" which have the current splash radius of c4 and is effective against walls?

[gilded dock]

Yeeessssss

Basically make c4 something that's not just "free kills, but in a box!"

[zenith carbon]

and then keep c4 as a gimped version that's effective against everything but doesn't do very significant damage

[gilded dock]

Nah, remove that cross out line

[paper vector]

but I want my funny kill everything bricks

[gilded dock]

I know the devs wanted medics to have c4 still so they can destroy walls, but lets be real, 90% of the time people just use them as extra, quicker grenades.

[celest kraken]

I clear buildings with it. Yes, i am part of the problem

[gilded dock]

I can say these things solely because I just meme with the smoke launcher and the sledge most of the time

#Buffsmokelauncher

[celest kraken]

Smoke explodes and does splash damage if you direct hit 😏

[gilded dock]

...Really?

[celest kraken]

No, i mean thats what we should do to buff it

god i wish i could do that, start playing like im demoman from tf2

[gilded dock]

I love the idea of no explosion, they just die because they got hit by quarter pound projectile going at rapid speed

[zenith carbon]

to be honest... you're better than me, i am that person that deliberately sledgehammers random buildings to death

[patent timber]

tbh root of all this problem is c4 denied a lot of support structure and everyone have access to c4

[vestal lotus]

How about this change to support armor to make it more viable? :

Adopt a plate system like in warzone. Support can resupply armor plates from the supply kit. When the plates of the support player break, they need to go through a brief animation of removing the broken plate, and inserting a fresh one. If support is out of plates his movement speed is buffed slightly to reflect that hes not carrying around this weight.

This would make support a lot more attractive to play

[vestal lotus]

C4 doesnt work on sandbags, they resist c4 really well actually

[patent timber]

but everything behind it still get damage somehow

[vestal lotus]

But if youre close enough to chuck a c4 at the sandbag i think its fair that it does damage to players behind it. Its so easy to peak behind the sandbag as the defending player and mow down any approaching players

[patent timber]

i build sandbag wall to block my back in the nest and still get c4 killed from behind

it still count as denied structure

[vestal lotus]

But i think thats fair, if you dont watch your back thats on you, you should prop yourself up against a wall so you only have one angle to worry about

[patent timber]

well some place up against wall is not that great cause there dozen of other way to get to you

unless i build sandbag to block all way then it still get decontructed by enemy team easy

and i cant watch all the way

[timid night]

Bipod needs buff

[calm swallow]

THAT'S WHAT IM SAYING

[clear maple]

What if the placement range of C4 was dialed back? That way you can't throw them 30 feet and actually need to be close to what you're blowing up

[earnest crescent]

yes

[vestal lotus]

It already is really small. You have to sprint and throw up to make it go further. Making you vulnerable to be killed

[night pike]

And the travel time is long

[clear maple]

You can currently throw C4 from a standing position 12 meters, which is 36 feet. It takes a little over a second to travel that distance. But the arm time is nearly instant

That's not a long travel time, which doesn't really matter because it can be thrown from cover. Throwing it from cover makes the enemy have to push or run away, but they can't because of the arm time. And throwing a brick of C4 almost 40 feet, adding in the magnetism it gets towards objects like walls, you can really fling it. I've definitely thrown C4 up to 70 feet with minimal effort

I'm not saying nerf it into the ground. But it is definitely a bit too good for a gadget everyone gets. The fact they had to reduce how much medic gets recently, that says something

[slim ingot]

Just putting these here for myself and to keep all the concurrent ideas in one place. All from this server in some form or another. Let me know if I missed anything.

1. Make the (adjusted) Bipod the support's "passive" as opposed to an attachment. We simply shoot better when crouched/covered/prone as long as we don't move too much.
2. Give support access to DMRs (when adjusted). Fits area denial theme but at mid/long range maps.
3. Give Exo armor a flat dmg reduction from explosions (RPGs, Frags, C4, and so on). Persists even if the armor is shot off. You wanna dig us out, you're gonna have to throw two of those precious things at us.
4. Make the ammo kit work like the medic kit for primary ammo. If you throw it down it can be used to replenish things like bandages and gadgets, but at base we can top off our squad when on the move.
5. Most debated so it comes last—make ammo kits replenish armor in some way.

[clear maple]

I honestly feel like armor should just be a percentage DR as a whole. If I shot someone with a vest, they're still taking the hit. The armor might block it and the plate might buckle or break. But it's still there, it'll still do something. I'm not instantly blowing off some dude's armor bc I shot him three times in the chest with 9mm.

[heavy sage]

agreed

[clear maple]

For what its worth, it's literally in every armor manual I've seen that if your armor breaks (plate takes a hit, strap breaks apart, w/e) you're supposed to duct tape that bitch back together until you can replace it. Because something is better than nothing

[heavy sage]

i feel like snipers should be able to break armor tho

and give support a way to replenish armor

to compensate for that

[clear maple]

I think it should either be a percentage DR in the areas it covers, or you lose the penalty once someone shoots it off

[opal pecan]

I would defo disagree with armor as flat damage reduction, might as well spell nerf all smg and famas. When FAL is considered by some as the best AR this only makes it comparatively better

[heavy sage]

ok thats fair but atleast give support a way to replenish armor for itself and its teamates

cause currently armor is pretty useless

[slim ingot]

yeah, flat dmg reduction is relatively easy to implemant on explosives because there are only so many of them and outside of splash, high dmg. But this is why it gets so divisive—you'd have to change the damage model to something more nuanced and milsim-ish which is perhaps more than a simple patch or two, and a bit outside the developers' stated arcade priorities.

[gilded dock]

Make armor resist damage, but also make it so the armor damage stats reduce the armors health, and thus slowly diminish its reduction. Grant support/engineer a way to restore armor hp.

And obviously the resistance only applies if they hit the chest

[snow python]

Natural Selection 2 literally let you repair armour with a repair tool, why engineers can't do that is dumb. Engineer, medic, and supports holding a point should be like digging out a tick.

[gilded canopy]

1 , 2 and 4 are literally the most important to make support a viable and fun class to play

i guess support snipers could be a problem with exo armor, but dmr's arent good as snipers at super long range so they arent THAT op really

[paper vector]

I don’t think a DMR is going to have anything going for it over an ultimax after the buff

[patent timber]

tbh DMRs not really suit supports cause support you want to suppress an area but DMRs doing really bad job at it

fire rate and damage too low to suppress even choke point. DMRs more like a gun to pick off weakened enemy than suppress

[clear maple]

Support getting PDWs and a deployable HMG gadget would be more meaningful

[brittle oak]

I hate how everyone think supports should make suppressive fire like yes they hold a point/choke really well but just spraying bullets isn’t really good in a 127v127 when there is always multiple angles, and if there isnt multiple angles you’ll get flanked and die

[meager cypress]

people want support to have a wide field of view and spray bullets everywhere but the way you actually play it is minimizing angles, spraying and slowly working the angle wider, guns and support are too slow and not tanky enough to do otherwise, but just shooting at doorways does work
remember many players are adderall addicted squirrels and will get bored about 3 seconds into your suppression and try to lean that corner anyway

the above is why the ultimax is the better gun, you can accurately lay down fire in windows/doors and the belt lasts a lot longer

[brittle oak]

Normally i place a hesco in a doorway and put an ap behind it which they break down and then jump over as “why would u place a mine where they cant get to”

[meager cypress]

putting anti tank mines in buildings they are likely to take so they can destroy their own building is funny too Xd

[brittle oak]

Ok i cannot agree 💀 strikefire on suppresed m249 is class

[meager cypress]

thats fine

[clear maple]

The suppression everyone wants is going to turn heads towards the support so damn fast. And that's a bad thing

Strongly agree with holding lanes and farming points from crackhead medics tho

[meager cypress]

tbh, if you want to get into minor stuff
just darkening and lowering FOV in peoples view that you are suppressing and giving assists if they die would be plenty

[thorny zodiac]

The reason suppressive fire is a thing is because there's only two peoples that require you to be stationary i.e. making yourself a massive target to be immediately killed. Sniper and MG's. Snipers circumvent this issue by being across the map outside of people's effective range. MG's circumvent this by suppressive fire. Without the suppressive fire any guy with a pistol can turn around and 1 tap you with a deagle much less their actual primary weapon

[clear maple]

The T7 Mini-chaingun from PS2 comes to mind. Yeah, it's noisy and scary. But everyone turns to kill you because of that

[thorny zodiac]

If suppressive fire isn't wanted then you need to give MG's pre-built structures that make them really hard to kill otherwise why have support as a role that focuses on defensive gameplay?

Like MG's ADS is SO fucking slow and their movement is SO fucking slow, they NEED to be in some sort of position to ambush people. The class doesn't work otherwise

And the armor doesn't make up for this weakness at all

wow, instead of dying in .18 seconds I'll die in .3!

meanwhile they're 10 times easier to shoot at because they move like a snail

[brittle oak]

Tbf support is only going up in the world, with grenade trophies + ammo box next update

[thorny zodiac]

That's an issue in of itself

[meager cypress]

support being immune to being flushed out by grenades is a start

[celest kraken]

Ps2 doesnt have suppression and that gun basically plays like an smg

[thorny zodiac]

they're making support "required" to bring for their gadgets but their role/niche is fundamentally broken i.e. not fun

[meager cypress]

I wish it was a bit easier to board up windows with constructions and such to help cover vs medics but whatcha gonna do

[thorny zodiac]

Pointless when everyone is rocking C4

[brittle oak]

Hesco tho?

[thorny zodiac]

The easiest solution is letting support make pre-built structures that fit into the average building

and they can't be immediately built but take like 3 seconds and are destroyed by RPG's and C4

[clear maple]

I don't understand your point here. Yeah, you're right it does. But my point was "big loud shit makes you die faster". Being annoying as fuck as a support just means people are going to turn around and whoop you

[thorny zodiac]

Suppressive fire isn't mean to kill people, it's meant to be a zone denial tool because if you tried directly firing at someone they'll light you up before you'll land a shot. You need to flank the MG nest otherwise you can't safely pass through an area

[celest kraken]

Fair, but we already have that issue due to tracers. Suppression could at least give support a role of pinning down enemies

[brittle oak]

On another note we need keybinds for the different building things so we can build instantly😈

[meager cypress]

yeah it works ish , they're just real chunky sometimes to place XD

build locking system is sometimes reaaaal finicky

[thorny zodiac]

num pad keybinds

[clear maple]

This is actually super true, shit is so clunky

[thorny zodiac]

is anything even bound to the num pad?

[brittle oak]

I dont have numpad 😭 60% issue

[clear maple]

Nothing's bound to it as far as I know. But most people have a bunch of keys that never get used anyways

[celest kraken]

Exactly, irl the point of suppression is to keep people's heads down and reduce their effectiveness because even 1% chance of death is distressingly high irl but in games people dont really fear death (particularly because spawning right back at the frontline takes a whole 8 seconds)

Combined with needing like 4 shots to kill someone from full with the m249...

[thorny zodiac]

Yup. Even if you give MG's suppressive fire it's not going to matter because the respawn system currently guarantees any singular CP WILL get overwhelmed the moment it gets focused

The greatest buff you can currently give support is making deaths actually matter so 1 guy can't hide in a field behind a tree near the CP constantly spawning his squad

[celest kraken]

Nobody is afraid of sticking their heads out or sprinting across doorways because everyone knows they can tank a few shots.

amusingly, snipers are better at suppression because they threaten anyone they have in their sights with 1shots

When a sniper starts shooting at you from across the map, you get in cover and keep your head down. Lmgs cant do this despite it being their job

[clear maple]

Most people just do goofy shit in reality

[brittle oak]

Unless your running like a fal or ak15 then you stand a chance. . . If their bad that is

[clear maple]

Beyblade and zig zag

[thorny zodiac]

Even then all snipers can do is slightly stall the advance because

lmao I'm just going to respawn in 4 seconds on my squadmate that's 5 meters from my corpse

[celest kraken]

Still a risk. Keep in mind, this still reduces combat effectiveness because they guy is probably going to have a hard time responding to any closer threats while doing that

[thorny zodiac]

Maybe a zone of death is needed. If you die in an area no one can respawn in it for 10 seconds but that's for another thread

[patent timber]

Movement speed is too fast on some class. Yes it fine when you fight close range but for lmg long range it a nightmare to shoot down

[celest kraken]

Support blocks hostile squad spawns in 100m around then

[thorny zodiac]

if you get close enough to the enemy spawn you auto win the game because they can't spawn in

[clear maple]

I just saw a clip of someone spinning in CQC to dodge, then laser beaming the shit out of the POV guy

It's not really a risk, its an actuality

[meager cypress]

I dont see how that guy is not cheating to be honest, its like one frame from landing at 90 to headshot

but yeah I reposted that vid here already XD

[clear maple]

And this isn't really a fringe case, I've seen similar shit in my own games

[patent timber]

That the reason I don't like using Deagle. Glock is better for that situation

[meager cypress]

you see him cycle lean as he lands and fires too XD

[clear maple]

You can bind lean to your movement keys so it spams for you btw

[celest kraken]

Leaners should get scoliosis and get stuck leaning

[patent timber]

Deagle is too slow for game with fast movement speed like this

[celest kraken]

Deagle is just a dmr in disguise

[patent timber]

Yeah but it a sidearm and I want to use it as backup weapon not main

[celest kraken]

But yea, there is a reason i use the giggle glock

[meager cypress]

glock is a fun gun
it would be very problematic if you carried enough ammo for it lol

[clear maple]

I only use my sidearm to sprint faster tbh. I pick whatever has a 1.10 run speed and use that.

[meager cypress]

tbh, thats how I would address medic
just scale back their ammo capacity so they can't overextend and run roughshod through a team with 10 mags

force medics to play with the team because they just dont have the ammo longevity to get the job done

[patent timber]

Medic should lose Ranger armor

[celest kraken]

That is actually a decent idea considering it is less likely to be massively opposed by medics. I mean, it likely still will but not as strongly opposed as suggestions like removing medic's ability to heal themselves

[meager cypress]

every medic is a one man army currently, infinite hp, super speed, tons of ammo, etc. I think ammo is the best way of scaling them back, assault should have the big ammo capacity because they over extend, everyone elses needs boxes

[celest kraken]

Less ammo buffs support too. Right now there is barely even a choice between trophy and ammo

[meager cypress]

then you're sort of pigeonholing people into needing supports that no one is playing, maybe support boxes hold more primary mags to compensate, w/e

[celest kraken]

Trophy is just better 90% of the time

[meager cypress]

i mean anyone can call down ammo drops right now its not a huge deal

[clear maple]

Most people just respawn 🤷‍♂️

But I also like having the boxes so I can keep throwing smokes. Smoke is the best kind of support imo

[meager cypress]

tbh
with more and more people cheating to see through smokes, I almost want to see bullets that pass through smoke take a hit on damage/falloff

I do love me some smokes though

[opal pecan]

Suppression is not a polished mechanism in this game is one of the issue. It gives no xp (no incentive) and it only slightly darkens enemy’s view which wouldn’t stop enemy from beaming you down (ineffective)

In other titles common effects are dampened movement / forced capped aiming speed or such that does have deterministic effect on combat efficiency

[clear maple]

Make LMGs more controllable so we can just kill people.

[livid carbon]

ultimax is getting its buff already

[clear maple]

That's 1/4 support weapons

[opal pecan]

Yeah just a bigger p90

[clear maple]

And its locked behind rank 100.

The U100 is getting buffed specifically because it was underperforming compared to the 249.

[patent timber]

Ultimax never underperforms compared to M249 tbh it just different playstyle

[clear maple]

That's not my point. One weapon being buffed doesn't mean the rest of them are fine

[patent timber]

L86 not really need buff

[clear maple]

Okay. Anyway

[patent timber]

But support could use some more weapon sure

But they confirm will add more

[clear maple]

I'm not worried about that. I'm worried that suppression is going to be a bandaid fix for inaccurate machine guns

If they're in the open. Just kill them. 🤷‍♂️

That's literally the whole point of war.

"How can I kill my enemy?"

[patent timber]

Buff bipod can fix that problem

[clear maple]

Or just making them more accurate so they don't need a bipod

[patent timber]

Not to level of prenerf though

[celest kraken]

Make lmgs 1shot. Now suppression isnt a bandaid system but instead a consequence of them being good 😏

[patent timber]

Pre nerf bipod is just pure cancer

[thorny zodiac]

I got my own video of something like that, I'll process it real quick

I don't want a milsim game but god damn man

Surely there's a line between "literal cartoon physics" and "I will break my ankles dropping down 3 feet with 500 pounds of gear"

[clear maple]

And the funny thing is that suppression still wouldn't do anything here because movement is so fucking cracked out of its mind

[opal pecan]

You need to make yourself stationary and most likely prone to use bipod which means you’re gonna get c4/nade/sniped

[thorny zodiac]

Yeah, bipod shouldn't be an issue because you're giving up the strongest tool in the entire game: mobility

[paper vector]

relatively mild example

[thorny zodiac]

All you need to do it make it take .50 seconds to take effect to stop people from cheesing it

[dusty plinth]

I disagree; all this does is make PDW's even more overpowered than they already are because you essentially have an almost endless amount of ammo at your disposal, there would be very little reason to use LMG's in their current state in comparison to a P90.

[opal pecan]

One thing that bothers me a lot is bipod being auto deploy

It sticks to surfaces in a very weird way…

And only feels weirder when you look around, bipods “surf” the surfaces

[clear maple]

That's fair, and I feel like part of that is a reflection of the state of PDWs and other CQC weapons as a whole.

[patent timber]

Have you see pre nerf bipod. It literally 0 recoil and can laser 200m+ easy

[dusty plinth]

I mean- that's the whole purpose of a bipod- in exchange for maximum vulnerability you're given maximum accuracy.

[opal pecan]

and… what’s the problem with that? In Hell Let Loose its also like that, once you set your camp you be the laser beaming people from afar poking every pixel you think is a head

[dusty plinth]

In general I believe all SMG's and PDW's need a range, accuracy, and movement nerf.

[patent timber]

Well yes it the point but that is too much because even dmrs is weaker that range

[opal pecan]

Dmr has its own issue and you don’t try compare against something people acknowledged being an issue

[patent timber]

It become even stronger than gun type design for long range

[dusty plinth]

As I explained here, I don't know why so many games make CQC weapons unrealistically overpowered. #1138399550210576466 message

And here: #1138399550210576466 message

[opal pecan]

You’re assuming both parties acknowledged each other and are in face to face gunning each other but that rarely happens

[clear maple]

Strongly agree. My suggestion only really came from how dumb it sounds for support to carry a LMG and a deployable HMG gadget

[dusty plinth]

This game has a greater SMG meta than CoD- and that's saying a lot.

[opal pecan]

Ya sure you stepping into that street knowing there’s an mg camping?

“Of course I has better sniping skill duh”

Aim punch can definitely mess up mg trying to beam that far btw

[patent timber]

At 200m+ range dmrs barely able to get any kill tbh

And that if dmrs is camping

Unless they buff dmrs to be good at that range I don't think bipod should be good at that

Why use dmrs when lmg kill better long rang

[opal pecan]

I will not respond to any further arguments regarding trying to devalue a suggestion by using a commonly acknowledged as underperforming weapon as baseline

[dusty plinth]

That's more of a problem with DMR's rather than LMG's being as effective as they should be; DMR's and LMG's generally have around the same effective ranges, and MMG's typically exceed both.

[patent timber]

Yes that dmrs and I also said bipod need buff just not 0 recoil

[dusty plinth]

The problem with DMR's is their velocity and damage-per-shot is too low, but that could also be stated about Snipers as well.

[meager cypress]

my only complaint with the LMG rangewise is I feel like I should be able to keep sniper heads down out to 200-300m or so, i dont really want kills just to not get killed in return, I'm not sure how you manifest that XD

[opal pecan]

Snipers at very least 1 hit kill on headshot

Dmr is … lol

[dusty plinth]

Yeah, a DMR should be a one-shot to the head if they aren't wearing a helment.

[meager cypress]

when aimpunch was more punchy tapping you for like 5-10 damage did the job

[opal pecan]

But that would kinda make sniper rifles obsolete don’t you think?

Why bolt when you can just tap faster

Wrong thread btw

[dusty plinth]

Not really, no; Sniper rifles still have higher range.

[opal pecan]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1138742385589887136

[patent timber]

Maybe make support have building that have smaller hole to shot from

[opal pecan]

Wall with hole has the hole in the weirdest spot possible

You have to lean to shoot from it like whyyyyyy

[meager cypress]

i mean thats just a pickaxe with more steps

[patent timber]

Smaller hole than current sandbag and can be mount with bipod

[opal pecan]

If you crouch the angle is too high lmfao

[patent timber]

Nah that still too big

[opal pecan]

are you saying we should be able to mount guns into the hole or something

[patent timber]

I mean like 1/5 of the brick

[opal pecan]

Currently how bipod is designed it’s very hard to work with any small openings

[patent timber]

That why just buff bipod

[opal pecan]

Heck it’s not even easy to work with seemingly flat surfaces

Just tad too low/high to crouch deploy bipod

Oh wait, we should have walls that have holes in the bottom

[patent timber]

I like how rs2vn system

[opal pecan]

To prone deploy bipod and shoot from behind the wall

[meager cypress]

there should be a heavy MG maybe vehicle mounted that knocks out single bricks like the pickaxe imo

just grinding apart a nest would be a lot more fun than blowing everyone up with the apc gun

[thorny zodiac]

tbh, every single weapon that isn't the DMR needs this

SMG's step on AR's toes. AR's step on DMR's toes. Sniper can be across the fucking map in their spawn and as long as they got LoS they'll 1 shot people

Whenever someone posts something that talks about meters in this game they should be shown a video showing how far that is in the shooting range. like 95% of every single engagement is in 50 meters

well, if you factor out the 30% of the team that are snipers shooting from 2km trying to set a personal best

[opal pecan]

#1138399550210576466 message

[dusty plinth]

Not necessarily, no. I'm still frim on the route that games need to start balancing through dispersion, velocity, muzzle climb/drift, calibre ballistics, and how these effect range, penetration, and suppression rather than random combined DPS/BTK/TTK values.

[thorny zodiac]

I'm fully for that but at this point I think I know how Oki operates and he's 100% not going to do that

Otherwise the SMG's he has "balanced" would've had those changes already

[dusty plinth]

Most SMG's do have an effective damage range of 50 meters, but what games consistently keep getting wrong about them is SMG's even with today's technology have more dispersion and muzzle drift/climb than AR's and LMG's.

In fact SMG's typically have a higher maximum dispersion and dispersion rate-increase than LMG's and higher minimums than AR's.

[dusty plinth]

Unfortunately they would require a much bigger team because all of the weapons would have to be re-written.

[thorny zodiac]

They'll get paid soon™

[dusty plinth]

Honestly, this is an example where I would be okay with a Battle Pass, they need to find a way to continue profiting off the game and contrary to popular belief, I don't believe Battle Passes themselves harm the game, it's the fact that these big studios are pursing live service models as a way to increase their profits while putting in minimal effort -- it's different for a team of 3 working on an Indie title however.

[thorny zodiac]

They already made millions of dollars split each way after taxes and fees

Entire point of EA is to get an early pay check to finish development

So they shouldn't need to get a battlepass or anything. They just need to finsh the game

[dusty plinth]

Interesting, I guess I'm worried about the fact that their expenses might start to exceed their profits; most games have a blooming phase but they quickly begin to deteriate and it seems BattleBit might be on that course.

[thorny zodiac]

Literally not mathetically possible. Expenses, at most, are probably 10k per month for servers and that was BEFORE the massive player drop-off

Turkey is a progressive tax country with a max tax bracket of 40%. Steam takes 30%. 70% tax total. You're left with 8-9 million to play with for expenses and whatever fixed costs

What was it, Nost (wow p server) was paying like 12k for their servers hosting 150k players?

[dusty plinth]

Didn't the say something about their servers costing like- 6-figures per month at the moment? Though I guess that figure would go down based on how many people playing.

[thorny zodiac]

bold face lie if they said that

I could believe that for valorant or fortnite

Not for some literal who game with <90k peak players

Maybe if they bought infustructure to host their own servers

but that would be upfront costs

after purchasing the hardware to run them would be a lot cheaper

[dusty plinth]

Found this from SgtOkiDoki:

So an estimated $50,000, but that was under the assumption that they were going to get 20K or so players I believe.

[dusty plinth]

This is something I'd love, just doing that with a whole bunch of people behind the wall sounds sound satisfying.

[meager cypress]

I just think its way more fun than the current APC explosive cannon

[dusty plinth]

I'm hoping MMG's get some sort of special treatment like increased vehicle damage, at least to the point where they can suppress Jeeps and Helicopters.

[thorny zodiac]

Feels heavily inflated.

[dusty plinth]

Taking down Bi-Planes with the MG42 + Incendiary was so satisficing in BFV.

[thorny zodiac]

I also don't know where Oki gets the 3 month hold thing from

[brittle oak]

Steam lmao

Same does every game

[dusty plinth]

That sounds a lot more reasonable and viable.

[thorny zodiac]

Not in their FAQ

[thorny zodiac]

Not saying it's not possible but I don't see that anywhere from steam

[brittle oak]

Well mabye they havent updated it, oki has no reason to lie

[thorny zodiac]

[brittle oak]

Please tell me why oki would lie

[thorny zodiac]

There's plenty of malicious or selfish reasons to lie like just postponing things that need to be done to enjoy the money you got

or a malicious reason: string the community along for a bit saying you haven't gotten paid and ghost the game

Oki and the crew are literal millionaires

[dusty plinth]

Imagine being able to do this to Little Birds with the MG3 (whenever it comes out)? https://youtu.be/P7YijTFH8jc?t=23

[thorny zodiac]

but who knows, Oki can be telling the truth but if he is he's not giving full context on what's going on

Maybe turkey has something specific going on with it that causes a 3 month hold

Only thing I can find is maybe he had the wrong store region which takes 3 months to change? Would be a really funny oversight

Maybe

release game in June
fuck the store region changed
ask to pause payment until this changes
3 month hold
won't get paid until September 30th

steamcommunity dot com/discussions/forum/0/3841053085042793333/

Probably what happened. I'm still doubting the server costs though

[thorny zodiac]

LMAO what in the fuck

[gritty sluice]

@thorny zodiac has earned the Tier I Member role!

[thorny zodiac]

I'm so shocked at that video I went up a rank

[royal hare]

mf falling like a leaf

if i was playing supp there i prob would have died cause by the time he jumped and landed i would have just ads'd

[thorny zodiac]

I feel like there was no way he wasn't cheating somehow

SOMETHING about that video feels off

[paper vector]

Possibly due to lag or packet loss he seemed to run on nothing for a short time

[royal hare]

i thought it was the light but doesnt look like it

[thorny zodiac]

Like he was going up until he noticed you then immediately dropped into a dolphin dive. Could be some sort of lag

[paper vector]

But for the most part I think he was just running along the lamp post

[thorny zodiac]

I didn't even noticed that

yeah, looks a lot less sus now

[royal hare]

should supp be penalized for using extended mags since they reload so slow

[thorny zodiac]

I'm getting old, can't notice colors now

Probably, just for consistency sake. I think LMG need a pass over in general

[dusty plinth]

Yes and no; an extended mag on an LMG should actually decrease it's recoil because the added weight onto the already heavy weapon would further stabilize it's drift and climb, but obviously the penalty should be overall handling.

[opal pecan]

The game doesn’t implement gun swinging inertia (if you try to change direction fast you’ll overshoot even if you’ve stopped your mouse) so I’m not sure how that can be handled

[celest kraken]

The power of no inertia

[celest kraken]

Maybe for the hardcore mode, i just really want a game that can give some tangible benefits to using slower and heavier weapons instead of thibgs like lmgs just being "worse assault rifles"

[celest kraken]

And its pretty common on some weapons to use the mag as a monopod. I could see with some mags that they can be too long to be used comfortably but it should be mostly fone

[opal pecan]

I would have thought mg36 use drum mag as default and the now-current mag as short mag

[clear maple]

Why do you have 2 of the same exact RDS on there?

[royal hare]

i like the look of the canted better but you cant use canted with ironsights

[clear maple]

Interesting. I've seen it before but never done it outside of just being forgetful

[zenith carbon]

honestly this is a good idea because there currently are near zero reasons to use extended mag anyhow

[vestal lotus]

Give support a segway.

At the press of a button support enters an animation of mounting this segway (1 second animation) and then support cant shoot while on this vehicle.

While on this segway support can only shoot his secondary, but is otherwise defenseless. He moves as fast as a smg medic on this segway.

When he wants to get off he has to enter another 1 second animation and then he can get off the segway.

To balance this you could add a certain battery 🔋 🪫 capacity

This would instantly make support more attractive to pick, since you can get to places faster, without breaking supports role and making him move faster on foot

Just think about how much fun it would be to zoom around on a segway, while it essentially doesnt effect game balance at all.

It doesnt really make a difference wether support spawned on a squadmate and is now at the frontline, or wether he finally has the ability to get there himself wihtout taking 50% longer than a medic.

In combat this doesnt effect balance at all, but it would be a huge improvement of quality of life

[lunar wind]

I like this idea. Support getting a much needed mobility boost could help him create miniature frontlines for his team faster.

Furthermore he could supply his teammates with ammo without them walking away and him being unable to catch up. My only crique is that the segway should be an electric shopping cart instead of segways (It would fit the year Battlebit is taking place in better).

Maybe support could get the role of a ''Miniature Tank'' this way, since he has the strongest armor in the game and could run people over with his segway.

[river crater]

12.7mm mounted Segway

[vestal lotus]

#off-topic message <- check out this image for a real life example

[vestal lotus]

Yeah and most importantly its mobility that doesnt just make support a more heavily armored medic. Gunplay and balance is unaffected

[heavy sage]

bro not a fucking segway wtf

please no

[signal crest]

Remove the revive mechanic or restrict it to specific classes. You often feel useless pushing and killing 5-6 enemies only to get downed by the 7th person and them insta reviving everyone.

Reviving is currently too easy and too strong. It’d also make the medic class more interesting as I could just play assault with a ton of fire power and still revive everyone around me.

Or make it so that reviving is extremely slow for other classes. While fast for medics. That means everyone can still revive, but it’s more risk to do so for other classes

Next suggestion is to increase RPG damage to heli’s or lower the heli’s health. You hit the heli with an RPG for 20 damage (which is kinda hard to hit) wishing you could output as much damage as a support with an M249.

[river crater]

Increase armor of EXO armor, current ratio between it's armor and movement speed is shit. Or at least make it so that EXO covers whole body, no weakpoints like legs

[opal pecan]

Armor itself needs some kind of rework

[river crater]

Regenerate armor (change armor plates) OR remove speed debuff once armor depleted

For example, support's big ammo boxes allowing to change armor plates

[lunar wind]

I just want support to have better guns to make his movement speed penalty worth it, ie. Scar with 60 rounds/ close-quarters LMG like a 200 round UMP/ uuh Vector.

Currently Support feels like playing as an obese Ammo Crate, equipped with a 100 round, but slightly worse M4A1 and Glass Armor.

(Make support unable to jump (he already can't clear 2m jumps), but give him a .50 HMG. Replace his head with a sharp stick to counter jump and gun medics by impaling them.)

[woven fossil]

The entire armor system seems in dire need of some soft or hard rework. Whether this is the Armor damage eventually being added or armor being changed all together, especially as a Support player it is miserable only having armor for one fight, and then being at a disadvantage for the rest of that life. Even if medics are great at reviving you have less fun

[opal pecan]

ive seen support asking me not to rev him cuz he wants his armor back

[heavy sage]

yeah armor should debuff when broken

[woven fossil]

i have to do that far too often "Dont rez me I need my helmet back"

[heavy sage]

and support should be able to replenish it

same way medic replenishes health

[woven fossil]

that might be a bit too op tbh

[heavy sage]

would it tho

[woven fossil]

i think choosing between an ammo kit or an armor kit would be good though.

[heavy sage]

armor is completly dogshit rn

[opal pecan]

imagine engi rep tool repairs armor

[woven fossil]

at the bare minimum two things need to happen with just helmets. Because chest armor is still being worn when destroyed:
-More obvious when you lose your helmet, some kind of indicator since the loud sound can be missed in combat
-50% helmet-related speed nerfs are removed when helmet is gone

[opal pecan]

I firmly believe they got the system reversed, vehicles shouldn’t suffer max hp reduction after taking hit but body armor should if it’s repairable

[slim ingot]

just brainstormin here, what if armor was simply like halo shield style, but degrading as you say. Eg, heavy armor gives 32hp or whatever. When out of combat for some interval it recovers, but has it's maximum value reduced so now it's only 24 or whatever.

[zenith carbon]

honestly not bad as an idea but i'd tie it to a placeable armor box for all repairs as opposed to natural regen

[slim ingot]

or make it function like medic box where you hold it on em/yourself, endless options really. But the armor degrading like current max hp for vehicles does sound promising.

[snow python]

The buff we needed, we can finally defend a flag without being penalized for it. Oh my god, and the grenade trophy isn't a liability anymore.

[meager salmon]

it definitely isnt the buff we needed, but support is in such a sorry spot right now that even these crumbs are like a feast

[lunar wind]

insert meme with assault drowning and squad leader being a skeleton at the bottom of the ocean

[sweet sinew]

Definitely isn't the buff we need, some of the cap radius are 10m, good luck defending that as a support

[brittle oak]

i cant lie its not in a sorry spot, yes assault/medic are better, but one class will always be the best, you can still do well tho besides some sort of points buff the guns are good, the equipment is good, the instant building is good, mabye the movement penalty could be a little bit less but it is unfair to have everything

[meager salmon]

the guns just arent good tho. just like recon, the balancing for them is all over the place. except recon has a good dozen or so primaries to pick from. support has 4. so the MG36 being largely redundant compared to weapons other classes have is a much bigger deal than the MSR being redundant. a LOT of the attachments in support also make zero sense. bipods for one, but also the drum mag on the MG36. its messy and not good as a whole

the M249 being a laser doesnt make the rest of the guns all that good. ultimax change looks solid, but even if those changes are good, half isnt a good rap sheet. frankly, neither would 75% be a very good rap sheet

[zenith carbon]

honestly outside the guns it's not even that the support class is especially weak, it's just that medic is too strong

• the game is too heavily weighted in favor of rapid mobility since infantry is cheap and therefore you don't need to care about dying

bipods need a fix though

[zenith carbon]

like we've gone all wrong if we accept that one class is 'the best'. The whole thing with classes is that none of them are supposed to be 'the best' at anything except but their niche, which admittedly, support is pretty god damn good at

[sweet sinew]

The ultimax is good, with the update it will be great

It's a very very different playstyle compared to other classes, a lot more slow and purposeful which is far more challenging

[vestal lotus]

Yeti my friend, what do you think of the segway idea. I know weve had our differences in the past, but whats your take on it

[sweet sinew]

What Segway?

[vestal lotus]

#1138399550210576466 message

[meager cypress]

you know...

a single use primary gadget that can't be reloaded that just gives you a ton of move speed until you get off it then its busted, would fix supports issues with actually reaching the fight

[sweet sinew]

This is a terrible idea and you're a terrible person for suggesting it

[meager cypress]

but it is dumb as hell XD

[sweet sinew]

I'd much prefer to see a move speed affect acceleration instead of top speed

You do currently accelerate in the game, it's just pretty quick

[vestal lotus]

Why is it dumb, it’s realistic. Real militarys use segways for heavily armored units.

Just buffing support movement speed would break the game balance

[sweet sinew]

If move speed exponentially affected acceleration for sprinting, this would mean support could keep up with the blob but would still suffer from maneuvering as it's supposed to

For walking, keep the penalty

[meager cypress]

its just goofy, the whole segways in ukraine thing is not actually used XD

[vestal lotus]

Unfortunately i just disagree with everything that comes out of your mouth

[meager cypress]

goofy isn't necessarily bad for minecraft army men

[vestal lotus]

I dont see how battlebit itself isnt goofy, there is cat skins and duck skins

Segways arent even goofy, yall havent even been on one before have you? Theyre dope as fuck

[meager cypress]

ok

[sweet sinew]

What are you using sprint for? Either a) to travel distance or b) rapid engagements and maneuvering.

Support should only be penalized for the latter, having move speed affect sprint acceleration instead of top speed would mean that it takes ~2 seconds to go from walk to sprint speed in exo armor instead of 0.1 seconds, so you can still do a) but you can't do b)

No matter how low your move penalty goes, you will still be able to sprint at the default speed, it's just gonna take you a hot second or two to get there

In engagements, support will still be fat and slow as intended

It just means jogging from point to point wouldn't stupidly suck any more

[gilded canopy]

found the main medic

[meager cypress]

"mabye the movement penalty could be a little bit less but it is unfair to have everything"
Yeah, having everything is reserved for medics

XD

[livid carbon]

ouch, the movement speed feels abysmal, fix god damn it

[brittle oak]

name a game with class selection that is perfectly balanced please

[brittle oak]

engineer~

[celest kraken]

To be fair, he isnt wrong that often one or two classes will end being better than others. The problem is that the niche for other classes is extremely narrow in bbr.

like, you can expect generalist classes to perform better in most games but in bbr medics are so flexible they blow everything else out of the water.

fast, can heal themselves, good weapon selection, c4 is extremely versatile and can handle threats that small arms cant...

[gilded canopy]

i just want to be able to perform my role in peace, i want to give ammo, i want to be in the back supporting the team, i should be playing hand in hand with assault being their beacon for ammo and enginner being their becon for explosives

thats how the teamplay with these classes work, support right know its not able to do any of that while the other classes do

[vestal lotus]

Actually a very good idea, still think the segway idea is fun, but i can see the merit to what youre saying

[vestal lotus]

Tf2

[celest kraken]

Nah, soldier and demoman are very strong and then right behind is scout in terms of combat potential. Heavy is just like support (too slow to meaningfully contribute most of the time). Sniper is just spy but better (fills the same role as picks but isnt so luck dependent and can perform his role at long range.

Medic is mandatory

But yea, tf2 has good balance but is by no means perfect

[livid carbon]

the segway can't be a serious way to balance the movement bs of this class 💀

[meager cypress]

can it be a non serious way to balance the movement of this class

[gilded dock]

So a system like Ready or Not?

[sweet sinew]

No idea, never played

[gilded dock]

In Ready or Not, heavier armor causes you to accelerate slower, but you retain the same max movement speed no matter what. There's no sprint, so it just applies to your walk speed.

[sweet sinew]

Yes, similar but it still affects your max walk speed

[gilded dock]

Honestly a system like that would probably go a long way towards helping with some of the movement complaints

It wouldn't fix naked medics tho

[celest kraken]

Ditch segway, give support an e-bike instead so he can do tricks and shit

[livid carbon]

e-bikes are fucking heavy, tbh this "add mobility gadget to fix support" is bs

[meager salmon]

aye. the issue, in my opinion, is the walkspeed of the fastest builds, not the walkspeed of the slowest

[livid carbon]

both but more on the "support's to slow" side

[sweet sinew]

Medics need fixing by making them less effective in combat

[gilded dock]

Pretty sure I suggested taking away their c4 and giving them breaching charges instead

That would drastically reduce their kill potential, while still allowing them to make use of building destruction

[meager salmon]

yeah. c4 has no business being throwable. you know what that makes it? an anti vehicle grenade. you know what is supposed to be an engineer-exclusive throwable? anti vehicle grenades

and i agree with the breaching charge thing. take away explosive spread, add to the explosive penetration. make it really dangerous to enemies on the otherside of the wall, without busting a tank-sized hole in the wall. there are plenty of other tools for making big fuckoff holes in walls, let C4 be unique

[gilded dock]

I'd also say make the breaching charge have a much smaller radius. Let every class have breaching charges, and make it so only assault and engineer have c4

Alternatively, breaching charges would not kill whoever was on the other side, but instead give a minor flashbang effect

To everyone in the room that's an enemy

[celest kraken]

I am honestly conflicted because support having access to explosives that require setup like c4 really helps boost him as a defensive powerhouse

I think one of tje bigger issues is how c4 is just a close range short fuse grenade

Arming time is super fast

[gilded dock]

And you can yeet the dang thing like 30 ft

[celest kraken]

Well yea, that too. "Close range" grenade

[gilded dock]

I would be fine with everyone having c4 if it was a placable object instead of a thrown one

[paper vector]

Would make vehicles a whole lot more viable

It’s pretty fun though - can’t really remove it without some sort of more specialised replacements that can do bits of what C4 could

[gilded dock]

Exactly. Dying to a coordinated team of engineers is fine. Dying to one dude who got within 25 ft for all of 3 seconds is not.

Making c4 a placed down object would require you to actually sit still for a few seconds to kill a tank, and the tank would need to also be stationary.

You might need to add the ability to "track" tanks for that to work, but I feel it would be worth it.

[celest kraken]

I mentioned mobility and firepower kills as a thing to be added in exchange for greatly buffing the durability of tanks before in the vehicle thread

[gilded dock]

If you're really going defensive with support tho you're probably just using ap mines or the nade trophy

[meager salmon]

sledgehammers also need to give flashbang effect, on headshots. concussion lives matter

for that matter, isnt support the only class that doesnt get sledge? why!

[gilded dock]

No, only assault qnd leader gets the sledge

[celest kraken]

I could have sworn recon had it, was that changed?

[gilded dock]

Recon has pickaxe if I remember right

[celest kraken]

Yea, but i could have sworn it had the sledge too

Im probably mistaken

[gilded dock]

Maybe? I don't think I've ever seen a recon with the sledge

[meager salmon]

i think i mis-remembered the pickaxe as the sledge for recon

ive never used pickaxe for recon so it wouldnt surprise me if that is infact what i did lol

[clear maple]

Change the movement speed of other classes because the looney tunes shit is a bit much. 🎣

Honestly I'd rather just standardize armor/packs to be cosmetic across all classes. Then only weapons affect movement which is easier to adjust.

Armor just feels like a trap. Look at how many people who would rather play naked medic than exo support

[calm swallow]

fix bipod

[woven fossil]

Loving the ultimax buffs but the m249 still feels better for fighting helicopters. Feels easier to kill passengers since it takes several mags to blow it up anyways

[zenith carbon]

honestly i wonder if you could nerf c4 just by forcing players to directly place it and give it a minimum arm time

the extra distance it closes just by being both explodable the moment you throw it, and the fact you can throw it, is a life and death difference in urban zones especially

[gilded dock]

That's what I've been saying!

[zenith carbon]

(i mean to be clear, this doesn't negate that i want c4 to get off every class other than support and engi, and a reduction to its vehicle damage + increase to its building damage)

[zenith carbon]

we thank you and the others kind sir

[gilded dock]

Honestly just making it have placement and minimum arm time would nerf it's effectiveness against vehicles considerably anyways

[zenith carbon]

Probably yeah

[weary fog]

Could "fix" C4 by just giving it an animation. Currently it has none. Laying a mine takes a second because it has to go through the motions.

[zenith carbon]

No need for an animation tbh you can just set it such that it won’t work until a set time after

[weary fog]

Gotta say, Ultimax is way better now that you have some options on your attachments

being forced to use vertical grip was lame

[calm swallow]

You can actually use bipod with red dot and long barrel to laser people

But only on ultimax post buff

[celest kraken]

i been using the 4x scopes recently because of the buff

[calm swallow]

They’re better but difficult at best to use without superb recoil control.

[gilded canopy]

I always use ACOG with red dot, its the best combo

[gilded dock]

Ultimax is now the premiere support gun

[snow python]

I'm less concerned about vehicles and more concerned about it being a more effective grenade

[meager cypress]

thought:
if we want the 249 to be the anti air gun pump its velocity

its got too much kick to be good at long range, velocity would just help it out vs choppers

[weary garden]

There is pushback from giving velocity to últimax for the same reason

Lmgs would counter LB too much

[livid carbon]

lb has stupid maneuverability, either fix that or give us aa guns

[meager cypress]

I'm not sure how it would counter little birds too much, at the range and speed they are typically engaging with infinite ammo you're still not hitting that thing very much

[opal pecan]

maybe make support get a xp multiplier on defending objective like engineer get xp multiplier on destroying vehicles

Recon got long range bonus; medic got heal and revs

Idk what assault and leader should get but whatever

[paper vector]

Assault got passive buffs a while ago now

And riot shield 🥶👌

[opal pecan]

Almost makes me think squad lead should only get xp on following objective if only they take the role

Now squad leads just double dipping

[woven fossil]

The Ultimax changes are perfect. If the gun has lower damage output, then better recoil and all types of faster speed was absolutely the way to go.

That said it's draw time is still atrocious and its damage is still low, especially the L armor.

i dont think it should be competitive with the m249 at damage but more vehicle shredding would be nice given the low rate of fire

[meager salmon]

aye, increase ulti L-armour damage by one and decrease by 1 for m249. that way theres a legit, niche-defining difference between the two without making the ultimax too good at taking down lil birbs

[woven fossil]

yeah this gun lets you 1v1 helicopters but lose to every smg and pdw its niche needs more definition

[opal pecan]

you’re just gonna ignore its mediocre muzzle velocity?

[woven fossil]

yes

[meager salmon]

at least ye honest

[flat sedge]

I am late but it doesn't take long to make afew damage types for explosives & have armor resist each a touch differently (Looks at PS2)

[glass hawk]

Once again, I ask you to give support a shield with the ability to deal damage (well, or at least give experience for "tanking" damage)

and, yeah, still waiting for PRK-16

[livid carbon]

fix assaults shield first and give them the scorpion

[calm swallow]

Make it easier to resupply teammates

let me throw mags at team mates or resupply them with a small progress bar like healing

[gilded canopy]

t h i s p l e a s e

playing medic feels like being useful to the team

playing support feels like begging the team to let you be useful

[shell hound]

And let deployed ammo boxes stay after you get killed until they are fully out of supply points.

[gilded dock]

There would have to be a limit on how many could be deployed by one person at a time, but yeah, agreed

[gilded canopy]

Like in other games, if you spawn more than X ammount, the old ones despawn

[gilded dock]

Exactly, helps prevent any kind of rendering issues that would come from 100+ people placing down ammo constantly

[lunar wind]

oh yeah, like with AP mines/ claymores

[weary fog]

I recommend the B-URK diagonal grip, it helps all the stats that the ultimax needs help with and even boosts reload speed

[meager salmon]

support > place ammo box > respawn as sniper > why bother with supply drop?

[shell hound]

Because by changing kit after placing it, you'll no longer get the exp for it.

[meager salmon]

thats entirely beside the point. the proposed idea would entirely circumvent the need to earn and then spend squad points to call a supply drop

[shell hound]

Supply drop is a gimmick that effectively removes an ability for Support anyway.

It should be locked from squads with more than three players.

[celest kraken]

big issue with supply dorps is... what do they really do expect serve as a jumbo sized ammo box? there is literally nothing that they contribute that a support couldnt do by respawning

if they could do stuff like resort your armor or whathave you, but they are entirely pointless imo

[dry bobcat]

snipers already just call supply drops on themselves. They're not going to use the mic to ask for a Support user to spawn on them and drop ammo

[zenith carbon]

honestly i don't really see a problem with supply drop considering all it really does is make certain defensive positions easier

it benefits supports too, since it provides an additional line of ammo other than their own boxes to continue laying down fire

[lunar wind]

true. Maybe they should despawn when you switch class, good thought

[livid carbon]

support and maybe assault should be able to repair and restore lost armor, at the very least lose the downsides when it got destroyed

[meager salmon]

i feel that the dev resources would be better spent on just improving how armour works

though at this point its dubious whether thats even going to happen

[gilded dock]

Supposedly now that the community servers are set up they are switching back to focusing on content and balance

They already made dmrs way better than they were

[woven fossil]

give support an m32 rotary nade launcher

[gilded dock]

Good grief no

[woven fossil]

let me impact nade people at 150m

[gilded dock]

I love support, but he does not need a nade launcher. His class niche is already there, the surrounding mechanics just need fleshing out.

And he needs more guns, but at least those are coming already

[dry bobcat]

Give that to engineer and rename him "demo"

[gilded dock]

It would be like heat spam but worse

[celest kraken]

Just put it in the same slot as "throwables" and limit the ammo 😈

[sweet sinew]

100% assault needs a UGL as its class feature

Definitely not support

[meager cypress]

give exo armor smoke launchers that automatically fire when he's shot the first time XD

[brittle oak]

https://tenor.com/view/i-need-more-bullets-bullets-meme-hasta-la-vista-baby-gif-534144929134366082

That one guy on the team

[weary garden]

Support smoke launcher sounds funny

That would be a lot of smoke

[gilded dock]

If you had to give support a rotary grenade launcher, it would have to be smokes only

[celest kraken]

Acceptable as long as i can doink people in the head with a direct hit

[gilded dock]

Aight

I can agree with that

[meager cypress]

smokes or something slightly obnoxious like a tear gas that is mostly just a little annoying, not real area denial

[woven fossil]

ooohh tear gas that gives like an on screen visual effect would be interesting

[zenith carbon]

I'd give support a rotary grenade launcher with frags if they'd be willing to walk at -30% speed

Jk but tear gas is a genuinely good idea especially if the effect stacks

Would be rewarding to get enough supports carrying it just outright burning off areas

[gilded dock]

Allowing assaults to be immune to it or have reduced effects would give a good squad play encourager

[celest kraken]

Walk speed multiplier of -.30

so... w makes you move backwards at .3 speed?

Jokes aside, im personally wary of adding too many splash damage weapons.

And... considering 127v127 mode i worry about it being too commonplace too for even non-damaging effects. I can see some maps becoming truly obnoxious with even just a few supports spamming shit like tear gas tbat lingers over a wide area

Impact fuse flashbangs could be alright though, they dont have that long of a duration or too large of a radius

[woven fossil]

either way i think a rotary nade launcher would fit very well in this game depending on what it fires.
maybe it could only be anti vehicle, extremely small explosion size but high H armor damage

[celest kraken]

I want to headshot someone with a flashbang

[gilded dock]

Imagine getting flashbanged 6 times in under 8 seconds

[celest kraken]

I already experience this every time at round start... and it is way more than 6 times

[zenith carbon]

That is a fair point

Honestly I feel like it could be an alternative form of support fire supports can do by massing, which makes synergy between supports quite a bit nicer

[celest kraken]

Its why i think flashbangs might be better. Got to be careful with how strong and how long lasting the effects are but i think flashbangs are really well situated in that sweet spot

Tear gas could be... im already imagining it on smaller maps like tensa in modes like frontline or in certain points. It would be a near constant and obnoxious effect if the duration and radius was comparable to regular smoke

Not that it would be op or anything... just that it could be annoying regardless of how strong it is which is kinda sucky when it comes to balancing. Things that are annoying will stay annoying no matter how strong or weak you make them unless you tone the strength of the effect down enough at which point it often switchs to being inconsequential.

to use the minecraft nausea effect... any strength of that effect that is consequential to gameplay is also going to be obnoxious and no amount of adjusting the duration will make it any less

It can be done. Just saying that its hard to do well

[zenith carbon]

I'm coming around to the point of view that it's important that we have these kind of annoying devices in gameplay - they make people watch out and they lower game pace

[celest kraken]

True, still requires delicate balance for how annoying they are. Its why i like flashbangs. They are very strong and can totally incapacitate a group but also unless you manage to detonate one right in front of someone wont last too long to be obnoxious unless spammed (which while certainly doable is also balanced by availability)

Smoke is on the weaker end of not totally blinding an enemy except when it reaches maximum density and only if you look through the entire cloud. It also leaves frames of reference outside the smoke for you to use to help with aiming and navigating despite the obfuscation

Smoke manages to be strong without being obnoxious

Can still be done, it really depends on what sort of effect tear gas would do

[zenith carbon]

I've been wondering about something along the line of barb traps and/or claw traps which could be a pretty appropriate deterrent on different scales

[celest kraken]

One idea i just had would be to link it into suppression with suppression being buffed to do stuff like make your sights a bit jittery to reduce your accuracy at longer ranges

So tear gas could steadily increase suppression of targets within it over time

[celest kraken]

Like beartraps?

The idea of reusable beartraps that i could set, reset, and relocate is actually highly appealing 🤔

[zenith carbon]

Yep!

Could be like two at most, and totally reusable

[celest kraken]

Make them bullet proof and able to be disarmed (but not destroyed) by interacting with them and able to be destroyed with explosives maybe?

Idk about the destruction with explosives considering current c4 happy game state

[zenith carbon]

I think it'd be better to make them immune but small scale in general

You can do one or two, they can't be permadestroyed, but you best believe they are not sufficient for anything but the smallest positions

[celest kraken]

Able to be disarmed though, it still acomplishes the job of slowing someone down. Like if i set one in a doorway and i forcr someone to stop and disarm it or if they step on it i still am happy either way

[zenith carbon]

Yup yup

[celest kraken]

Basically... just better barbed wire because barbed wire eats squadpoints and can get casually deleted with c4 or by deconstructing it

It does distinguish itself by being a trap and thus able to be hidden in bushes and such

But just reminds me of why barbed wire sucks...

[zenith carbon]

it's really sad barbed wire entered at the height of the c4 meta

[dry bobcat]

bring back unlimited claymores!

[zenith carbon]

but that also applies for all the non-hesco wall fortifications, they're just not going to enjoy 80% of the lobby having c4

[celest kraken]

Long live claymore spam!

[zenith carbon]

ik this is a joke but i'm wondering if making c4 more specialized might finally bring people back to using claymores more liberally

or at least mines

they can genuinely be so good at their job and instead everyone just chooses to nuke the stairs of every apartment building

[woven fossil]

itd be nice if swapping gadgets wasnt so clunky tbh

[celest kraken]

Sandbags are actually disturbingly durable... baricades are paper though

[zenith carbon]

oh yeah sandbags are so durable it's weird

i imagine more people would use them if it was even remotely intuitive to use them

[celest kraken]

Part of the issue imo is tossing grenades up a floor is kinda a somewhat common tactic for clearing buildings. Single grenade can clear every corner of a room of traps

So just get rid of the stairs instead of trapping then

[zenith carbon]

which, in fairness, i think is a totally okay thing since people are using grenades okay there

honestly, hot take: i think we should cut the grenades from every class by 1

or disable access to certain types of grenades, like that tiny indie game did by making medic only have smokes oh wait that's battlefield v

[celest kraken]

Yea, the use of grenades is smart and fine here... its just that not having stairs avoids that issue entirely. Thats the problem

destroying stairs is too accessible, too impactful, and doesnt meaningfully inconvenience those in the building either because squad spawning exists

Ctf frugis has those big buildings with those slat-styled windows. You destroy the stairs and the only way up is with a fucking grapple hook which makes a loud easily heard noise to let everyone know to cut the rope you just places

So you can be real fucking oppressive by camping the enemy's building

No squad points means no other ways of climbing up either

[zenith carbon]

also, this might be a bit of a terrible complaint: god it is too easy to do it

it's easier to destroy stairs than it is the designated blow-up-able walls

[celest kraken]

Its not as bad a problem in modes where squad points exist

Ctf is just... fucking no. Its like there was no thought put into that mode

[zenith carbon]

oh frugis is quite an infuriating one though

[zenith carbon]

'like'

okay that's mean

[celest kraken]

I mean, they said its experimental so im cutting em a tiny bit of slack but its genuinely awful on a lot of maps and has all sorts of issues

[zenith carbon]

it's super unoptimized too

although, that's my opinion on most of the modes - especially frontline, despite the fact i am a breakthrough devotee

[celest kraken]

Part of what really makes ctf awful for me is that im a big time support player and being unable to fill in the holes in walls that build up over time from c4 and rpgs is frustrating

I want to set up on a nice sightline covering a chokepoint except the building im trying to do it in is literally just 4 support beams holding up a roof.

im visible and able to get shot from anywhere on the map! Please, let me build a sandbag 😭

[zenith carbon]

repeating my request that supports be allowed to reinforce and build retaining walls

+replacement walls

also - give 'em a ladder

(okay maybe that's more of an engineer thing)

[gilded dock]

Let support be what he was always meant to be: an irate civil engineer

[royal hare]

surely since the pistol balance update is announced the only thing left is LMGs right? Support getting love soon hopefully

[weary garden]

hahahahahahahaha

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-gustavo-fring-gus-fring-gif-25943058

[royal hare]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-and-dumber-lloyd-theres-a-chance-jim-carrey-gif-11098164

[slim scaffold]

I wanted to post this in the Suggestion channel but it seems like I either don't have permission or the limit has been reached (from post dates, I think it's the latter.)

Would it be possible to create better icons/indicators of ammo boxes? (Same goes for small boxes from Assault)

Right now I feel like Support is pretty underwhelming as a class (Lmgs are pretty fun but I hate the class)
This would make it easier for people to find your ammo boxes, which makes people less reliant on dropping in squad supply boxes.
Which will at the same time increase the amount of points you'll get from people resupplying, which might convince more people play support as it'll be more competitive to the medic class points wise and so on. (I don't think you don't get enough points from resupplying, I think people struggle to find them unless you're all waiting while capturing a flag for instance.)

[royal hare]

i think this was mentioned on a stream by someone who does work for battlebit

[slim scaffold]

Oh! Well I’m glad I’m not the only one then ^^ Hope there’ll be something to give the class a little more appeal

[woven fossil]

I really wish exo helmets would just absorb the damage of the sniper and get knocked off instead of also forcing bleed

also m200 shouldnt 1tap exo helms. this armor is a joke

[livid carbon]

sniper balance in general is flurmped, if the "anti material sniper" msr did that it'd probaly be fine but rn the balance is meh

[woven fossil]

its like Oki is balancing weapons and not doing anything about armor yet, im really hoping support becomes more useful when the body armor damage stat is added to the balancepool. or maybe it just needs a full rework cuz armor is kind of a meme

[livid carbon]

me playing support having fun:

[patent timber]

And then there people complain about helmets stopping bullethttps://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1120070611654422598

Schrodinger of player

[snow python]

Armour needs a total overhaul honesty, it feels weird to use, and weird to shoot a guy and then go, oops you're not dead yet.

[livid carbon]

imagine leaning in a gun fight
you were both on equal grounds, he just had the better armor

[weary garden]

Yes

[celest kraken]

Shits rough... its like the worst of both worlds imo. You get fights like this and meanwhile the dude you fought gets no armor and significantly slower speed for the rest if his life

Feels op, but isnt

[paper vector]

Surviving is better than not surviving

[woven fossil]

Killing is better and the faster you are the better you are at it.

[heavy sage]

support should be way faster

like only a bit slower than other classes

its way to slow rn

it should have a gadget to replenish itself and teamates armor aswell

and armor shouldnt give debuffs after its destroyed

[weary garden]

Normal armor support goes hard it being locked behind level 45 is stupid and I will repeat it to the high heavens

Exo armor with armor replenish is going to be whacky

[royal hare]

---------- L86A1 ----------
Damage reduced from 32 to 31
Vertical recoil reduced from 1.4 to 1.2
Horizontal recoil reduced from 1.4 to 1
Velocity increase from 600 to 650
Reload speed increased from 1 to 1.05

---------- M249 ----------
ADS time reduced from 0.35 to 0.3
Running speed increased from 0.9 to 0.925

i mean i was kinda right i guess

[livid carbon]

L86 more like 🇱 now right?
lmgs are too chonky and now the only gun somewhat capable of attacking the enemy is butchered, but hey lets turn the ump into a 3shot with minimal recoil, not like we have the groza as a shitter gun already or anything 💀

[patent timber]

I mean I get why devs change l86 so it is easier to use for newbie

But it suck that it lose too much ttk with out the break point

[livid carbon]

exactly, now we lose out on medium armor 4btk and the 3btk against unarmored with horrendous recoil, i'd say with how slow the kit is the 3sk was ok and balanced, but no support isn't allowed to do good meanwhile medic:

[paper vector]

Break point was significant but it’s still the fastest killing support weapon. So it’s not like its use case is gone

Recoil is quite a lot better now

[gilded dock]

It still outstrips the m4 in terms of ttk

Sooo....

[livid carbon]

if you're the fasted pre schooler in your group, good for you, but you're still just a pre schooler competing with olympic sprinters
that's about the state of support against literally everyone else except recon

[paper vector]

Just shoot the olympic sprinters

[livid carbon]

yeah if they just run away from my angle and engage me a few seconds later from the side, of fucking course, support is misreable to play, only played it a few times to enjoy me some ultimax and l86 action but now the class is even more dead then before

[patent timber]

Well it the only gun support have able to compete with meta-gun. Now all support gun have average ttk at most

[paper vector]

I do need to properly get the new ttks later

I think L86 is still good TTK though

[patent timber]

232ms on no armor

Most meta gun is 200 and below

[paper vector]

No armour is far from everything

[livid carbon]

ultimax: 600rpm with a 4shot to no armor
m249: 700rpm with a 4shot to no armor
mg36: 600rpm 3shot to no armor
l86: 775rpm 4shot to no armor
i think that alone shows pretty well how flurmped support is

[patent timber]

It a base line cause most player don't wear armor or just use light one. And the chance you hit no armor part is really high unless they use exo

[paper vector]

A single headshot will also keep TTK the same as it was, so it isn’t as bad as that

[paper vector]

~95% of players wear armour from spawning

[patent timber]

And it only last 1 fight at most

[paper vector]

No, it can last for many

But most players are bad, remember that

They don’t usually last fights

[patent timber]

If armor can last many fight then armor is not doing it job on block bullet for player

[paper vector]

Still. Half the players use light armour medium helmet or below in armour, about half over.

[patent timber]

Mean player either bad or can't hit you

[paper vector]

That just means you didn’t get hit, which is good

You need to win many fights without getting hit too much if you want a decent KD

[patent timber]

That also mean hitting body part that don't have armor

[paper vector]

That too, not sure what difference this is meant to make though. Just means even if you do get damaged your armour may still be intact

[patent timber]

This mean if 2 player have same skill hitting body part that have no armor. Faster TTK gun will always win

[livid carbon]

tldr: support sucks for being itself

[paper vector]

If limbs are exposed, both fighters are close enough and skilled enough to get 100% hit rates on limbs then sure
This isn’t really how the game plays though

Most people don’t aim at limbs at all

And if you’re the one in armour, where most people aim is what’s important

[patent timber]

Those use meta gun often try hard and good enough to do it consistently

This change good for new players but not for try hard

[paper vector]

I think like at least 80% of players use whatever they think are meta guns

In the survey I did only 8 out of 134 respondents claimed they hit over half their shots on limbs. Indicates to me very few actually prioritise it

[celest kraken]

Also assuming all shots hit... which is why ultimax is so satisfying and strong within its niche. Im hitting like 80% of shots while my enemy is missing more than half of his at 100m

[paper vector]

It is so satisfying to be able to full auto with a 4x scope on enemies that can’t even see you :D

[celest kraken]

Yes, yes it is

Its even more satisfying to full auto dmr players who can see you and win 😈

[patent timber]

Well at least we still have ultimax for long range. Close range we pretty much meh now

[celest kraken]

Ultimax works because it leans into a style that suits the weaknesses of support. You are slow so chances are you are going to be further from fights than other players. This naturally means a long range weapon will see more use.

its like the opposite of recon who wants to put themselves at range to use their weapon, support is instead more likely to find themselves at range

The precision and mag size also suits a defensive playstyle, i regularly prone at the top of stairs and mow down 3-5 players before someone gets smart and c4s

And you can beam through small gaps in enemy defenses or your own fortifications

It leans into a slower and more deliberate playstyle

[livid carbon]

and that's where it doesn't work, defense is not possible and offensive is so crippled on support best you can do is nade spam or switch the class

[paper vector]

It very much does work there

[livid carbon]

defense doesn't work

[paper vector]

Yeah it does

[livid carbon]

where are you playing, on what milsim server?

[paper vector]

If you mow down anyone who tries to approach you there isn’t a lot they can do

Haven’t tried those

I think most of my games with 60 or more kills are from playing defensively with support in 127v127

[livid carbon]

flanks, mach 10 movement, no incentive to defend "yeah it's fine"
it's not, you fortify a postion your team attacks the next point, ur useless now, but if you leave the enemy will just roll over the point, but they'll do that anyway because "frick milsim we arcade movement shooter"
my experience with support was bs and i think i can say that for a lot of people

[paper vector]

You do have a team
It is not like you’re defending an entire front line
Incentive to defend is that a lot of enemies are coming towards you and most of them are silly and not using cover properly.

Support does seem to work better when your team is on the defensive rather than pushing forwards, I think that’s ok

[livid carbon]

yeah being defensive works with how with screwed spawning is, 100%

[paper vector]

Wdym by that

(And if it doesn’t work, then why does it seem to work?)

[livid carbon]

people just backcap, don't defend their points, people walk away from a point they just captured that gets immediatly capped again, or i just happen to have terrible lobbys

[patent timber]

When I try to defend it always like 3 or 4 ppl with me defending the point

Again like 20 or more enemies rushing in. Yeah defending never work for me cause no one want to def

[paper vector]

L86A1 has suffered quite little against intact players it seems. Just moved down in the ranking by like one spot.

much worse against broken armour though

it used to be 2nd place with long barrel

now with or without it's ok but not very high any more

Recoil changes will overall probably make up for it over like 20-30m

but it is a pretty significant CQC support nerf.

[celest kraken]

Play the only somewhat decent mode: frontline.

still has issues but to a much less significant degree as the rest of the game. Snipers can be a huge pain due to how territory works in that mode (you camt sneak up and approach them) but are still generally ignorable with a sandbag and some positioning

[livid carbon]

yeah if i could play a server that didn't run cnq

[celest kraken]

So in exchange for snipers being more annoying (not stronger, generally still meh imo) you have a massively better balanced game in like nearly every other aspect

[celest kraken]

I mostly play on the 24/7 frontlines. The one with like 2s spawn timer is mid imo. People spawn in waaaay too fast that there is no such thing as coordinated pushes and lulls in fighting. Its just one constant unending firefight.

pacing is fucked imo. Its fine for a while but gets exhausting

[livid carbon]

none are active, we got like 5 official servers here in eu rn

[celest kraken]

Ahh, eu

[flat sedge]

Lets be honest

a Mk 19 constructable

[heavy sage]

not sure why they nerfed l86

it was fine before imo

[meager salmon]

is that what you call a nerf?

[livid carbon]

they took away its 3sk

[meager salmon]

oh, with long barrel?

[heavy sage]

can't 3shot with lb anymore

[meager salmon]

fair enough i guess

but it might be an attempt to shadow-buff the MG36?

[livid carbon]

was the only support gun that could go aggressive

[meager salmon]

but imo the MG36 needs more than a fucking shadow buff

[heavy sage]

they should of kept the damage the same but increase the recoil added when lb was equiped

[livid carbon]

ah yes making things worse so one bad thing doesn't look as bad anymore
"me balanced gud"

[meager salmon]

it does seem to be okis particular brand of "nerfing"

he likes to buff with nerfs and nerf with buffs, instead of actually buffing and nerfing

[weary garden]

it was a level 0 gun it didn't make sense for it to need 200 kills to become a god of destruction (and also usable)

it was just to make it basic

Yes, it sucks that it kills variety, but gotta look at it from an angle of new support player

it also calls attention to the fact we need mroe weapons

[meager salmon]

if it were in the AR class, id say it "kills" variety, but there are only two LSWs. L86 being 3stk-capable almost entirely removes variety outright

[flat sedge]

Unsure about that

M249,L86 and more recently the Ultri were getting used a good deal

L86 acting like the skorpion on support

[meager salmon]

m249 and ulti arent LSWs

[flat sedge]

with the M249 being the comfort pick

True, equally we only got two LSws

with the MG36 being the longer ranged option

[meager salmon]

yep. when one, especially the level-0 one, is capable of doing the same as the other but better, it just makes the other one a comedy pick

[flat sedge]

Kinda

[meager salmon]

also, i personally found the MG36 to be worse at range than up close

[flat sedge]

opposite here

[heavy sage]

mg36 is good

[meager salmon]

it has... kind of a lot of recoil

[flat sedge]

equally it had more ways to reduce said recoil

[meager salmon]

for what is effective groza damage

[flat sedge]

and it is mainly vertical

[weary garden]

oh my god I thought I was the only one

[meager salmon]

and now ump damage

[heavy sage]

l86 was already shit unless you had lb

[meager salmon]

and Ak5c damage

[weary garden]

I srsly think MG36 is just ok

[weary garden]

that was the issue

[meager salmon]

i never found the L86 to be shit tbh

[heavy sage]

now its shit with no way to improve it

[meager salmon]

its just not an all-star

[flat sedge]

But yea, I feel they need to possibly decrease the ADS time a bit

[weary garden]

then it'll get buffed further

But it needing LB was silly

[flat sedge]

and again I hope they add a replacement for people who want something like the L86/wLB

[weary garden]

if it and mg36 are both underperforming then they'll get buffed

[meager salmon]

although when you think about it, it did have a way higher RPM than most if not all of the other 3stk weapons

groza, ak5c, and ump are all in the 600s, no?

[weary garden]

650 for groza and ump

AK5C is kinda ok, same as mg36 bc they're 600

[meager salmon]

ugh. groza already did a LOT of damage and had a very annoying ttk. this UMP damage buff has me a bit concerned

[flat sedge]

equally it has how slow of a ADS speed & such

[meager salmon]

though groza also has the benefit of almost no horizontal recoil. new ump absolutely doesnt

[weary garden]

heavier falloff should keep it a semi skill cannon, but I'd say play with the changes first before judging it too harshly

[flat sedge]

mixed with the FR draining the magazine even faster (with how slow of a reload)

[meager salmon]

true. but honestly, taking the damage change into account with the large recoil increases... kinda just feels like its gonna be an AR for most engagements

those stats look more like "an AR that needed a range buffnerf" than any sort of SMG i would assume based on stats alone

[weary garden]

Same as the MP5

diff direction

srs, give it a try. I think you'll find it in line with other smgs and acting as a bridge just like mp5 instead of in the wrong spot

[meager salmon]

but what will the difference be between it and the, for instance, groza or ak5c?

runspeed mostly i assume?

or rather, general agility in handling?

(aside from range, which has already been mentioned)

[flat sedge]

for the L86 or?

[meager salmon]

the UMP vs other guns that it now has similar damage to

[weary garden]

support ammobox update dropped btw, some of you in here were asking for it IIRC?

[meager salmon]

wait so the update is already live?

[weary garden]

no,

check upcoming updates

[meager salmon]

oh you meant the update note, got it

[placid whale]

oh damn

these are some good support qol additions

[viral oxide]

so, basically you can just shoot all your ammo into air and support can get unlimited points for resupply? or is there any cap?>

[placid whale]

wonder how right clicking will work though (does it take into account all the ammo from various weapons/gadgets or just the primary and secondary, etc.)?

[placid whale]

hopefully theres a cap (a cap exists in the form of points when taking ammo from the ammobox in the ground)

[weary garden]

will be addressed before it goes live if I can help it

[weary garden]

Just primary/secondary for now IIRC

and only to weapon equipped if the clip is accurate

[flat sedge]

So one good QoL for support

mix with making the default gun more apporchable

[weary garden]

yea it's not much

but it's something

You've also got more bandages so that's pretty cool

It's getting to a better spot, but armor level rebalancing, bipod buffs, new weapons which are definitely recognized should help it to be popular again

[dusty plinth]

Massive W: #dev-wip message

[weary garden]

oki is addressing armor level unlocks lets fucking gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[flat sedge]

Hmmm?

[weary garden]

Reworking how armor is unlocked

[snow python]

The biggest reason for that is automated objectives and the squad leaders doing nothing. What ends up happening is people either murderballing and going until it stops, then they respawn near their next objective and just run to it regardless of what is happening elsewhere.

[livid carbon]

that is also painfull

[snow python]

Until the Squad System gets an overhaul Support will actually remain the weakest class, no amount of buffs and changes to the class beyond gutting our entire playstyle will change anything for us. We're all just drowning until the squad system gets an overhaul, we're in as bad as a position as the leader class is.

[grim fog]

LMAO

THEY DID MY SUGGESTION

PRAISE THE LORD

YES

[snow python]

Nice

[grim fog]

#dev-wip message

[paper vector]

It was fine with or without

It didn’t make a vast difference

The 3sk thing only applies to full HP targets with broken armour when you get no headshots. Which is usually not the case

[weary garden]

which is funny bc squadleader marking objectives doesn't do anything anymore

it's strictly visual

unless you're the squadlead ofc

[weary garden]

yea I knew I read it somewhere in one of these threads

good suggestion tbh

I was gonna push for it to include bandages too but eh

[gilded dock]

When is this update friggin coming out

I need it so much

[flat sedge]

2 AM EST

[meager salmon]

sadge

ill be playing the crew instead of the new update, basically :(

[woven fossil]

Does that support buff only apply to ammo? Or is it all refills like a dropped ammo kit

[weary garden]

Ammo

[dry bobcat]

Finally, we'll be able to shove mags in people's pockets

[meager salmon]

but first, you must pickpocket their empty mags. i hope youve been leveling your pickpocketing skill

[gilded dock]

Ah yes, the heavy armor stealth build

Nobody suspects the tank to be hiding behind a tree

Oh shoot, bandage buff

yeah boi

[flat sedge]

Support is tree

He does not hide behind small baby tree

[grim fog]

Thank you

[brittle oak]

Will support still refill things other than ammo?

Oh shit its right there 💀

[alpine dove]

when is it coming exactly?

[dusty plinth]

I assume you'll still have to place it down to refill everything, though there's also a bandage buff and Support can carry up to 3 boxes so running out of abilities to resupply in a single life seems unlikely.

[slender surge]

I love the building aspect of support. I wish there was more depth in the building, with support focusing on creating helpful structures for teams to use. It would incentivize teamplay!

As of right now it feels like support doesn't get much love compared to the other classes =[[

[zenith carbon]

Real

Also the building needs to be so much more intuitive

[snow python]

Yep, I've also had my building ui break a bunch which is crazy obnoxious

[flat sedge]

(desire for a Mk 19 or a Browning 50 cal emplacement (preferably ones setup in tripod stand or such)

[inner monolith]

Something I would love is some sort of "wall reinforcement" buildable, or just straight up let sandbags clip through walls. Currently if you're firing from a building, you're permanently at risk of getting RPG'd and putting a sandbag between you and the wall is the only way to be safe, but that greatly reduces the angles you can cover (or you can blow the wall up with C4 first and then put down the sandbag, but then that makes it even more obvious that there's someone in there).

[royal hare]

i suggested this too. like the reinforced walls in r6 seige.

[inner monolith]

Yoooo Oki confirms support = infinite ammo with the box change. Think I'll just bind the fire button to W now. :D

[lethal river]

Can you resupply yourself too?

[inner monolith]

That seems to be the case. Just like medkit, LMB others RMB yourself.

But if not. Well, two supports hanging out together should still be able to keep each other topped up.

[lethal river]

Thought it was just rmb to resupply others and lmb to throw it down

[inner monolith]

AAAA

Lol you are right.

I guess it's a bug currently.

[inner monolith]

But anyway. I guess this still works.

[lethal river]

Yea nah i was just curious and asking a question i haven't gotten the chance to try this new change out cause it's late where i'm at

[feral heron]

new resupply thing not working as intended?

[inner monolith]

Currently it bugs out and targets yourself to no effect if you don't have full ammo.

But Oki also confirmed that should be patched shortly.

[alpine dove]

when you try to ressuply friendlies if you have an empy magezine it only shows the option that you can ressuply yourself but ressuplying yourself is bugged so it wont work so you have to put down a ressuply and fill up your magezine then you can ressuply your friendlies with no issues

doki said he will fix it in a second update tho

[slender surge]

A great way to make support more fun to play would be to increase the options for buildables. Allowing support players to capitalize on the building system would add a much needed dynamic gameplay style to the support class. Thinking about supporting but in other ways than just healing or providing ammo.

Popular options would be things like:
-Structure reinforcements.
-Curved/upgraded building pieces allowing for more creative building options.
-Entrenching tools (Shovel/Spade/etc).
-Static weapon emplacements.
-Custom Airdrop to drop a quad bike for faster map traversal.
-Deployable that augments players who interact with it (i.e. body armor, stims, temp speed boosts, etc).
-Building with prefabs
-Utility deployables (think caltrops, barbed wire, and tear gas)

I am sure there are tons of more ways to make the class more enjoyable, would love to hear all suggestions as I love combat focused building =].

[flat sedge]

I am always up for more buildables

Just request any emplacements should be easy to build around ratherthan like barb wire where it's a "You MUST build this first & hope it doesn't get destroyed or you need to tear down a lot to replace it"

[meager cypress]

you missed one
the build system lock in place/range/etc system needs a slight rework so its not so difficult to quickly build
that you can aim your shadow building way outside your build range and then have to closely tweak it or jump around to get it where you want because it locks against railings and stuff is a pain for building under fire

[inner monolith]

Yeah tbh I'm not sure why it's made to be so finnicky about clipping into shit. I don't really see how this could be abused in any practical way (like, you could make a stair of sandbags up the side of a cliff maybe, but that's wayyyy more costly, unsafe and time consuming than a grappling hook).

[flat sedge]

or just two hescos at most generally

[meager cypress]

My main gripe is on the bridge i want to throw sandbags on the side to block snipers, and you fucking cant

[flat sedge]

hmm

For me I have done it

[inner monolith]

Speaking of which, it would be nice to have some ground clipping as well. It's kind of silly that I have to deconstruct my own wall immediately after building so I can fire comfortably.

[meager cypress]

its like an 8 step process to get one up there and then fine tuning your build spot to place it without overlapping yourself while being shot

[flat sedge]

two sandbags just block their view

[meager cypress]

yeah thats the easy way, it shouldn't be a herculean effort to put one up there

[inner monolith]

You can stack them on the road but putting them on the railing is not allowed right?

[meager cypress]

you can put them on the railing but the "locking" system stops you from doing it unless you put a lot of effort into it

[inner monolith]

I see

[meager cypress]

there's also some weirdness with the built stuff taking damage and getting taller/shorter that makes the short long concrete barrier seem a lot weaker than the others

[flat sedge]

to my knowledge that barrier has less health as well

[meager cypress]

is there a reason for that, it certainly looks tougher not weaker XD

[flat sedge]

no clue, I just gathered over time it feels like it breaks faster compared to sandbags (I used it for awhile to cover my standing bunker's front and have swapped to sandbags which feel like I don't need to do mat work every minute to keep them operational)

[meager cypress]

I like building little forts and the short barriers are nice for that , sandbags you just need one dude to walk by and repair it and your whole fort vanishes

[flat sedge]

aye I know that pain

[celest kraken]

Sandbags are stupidly durable before they go down a build state but the barriers shrink after only a single bolt action shot hits then

[gilded dock]

The concrete barriers likely have less health due to every class being able to instantly place them

[inner monolith]

Would probably make more sense to switch around the sandbag and concrete appearance then, just for logic reasons.

[zenith carbon]

Honestly the building system should have a rotate function

[meager cypress]

mousewheel

[meager salmon]

how hard do you think theyre kicking themself?

[zenith carbon]

Oh so that’s why i can’t bloody rotate it
My mousewheel has been broken since dec last year lmfao

[zenith carbon]

Also very hard

[meager salmon]

rest in pieces mousewheel

(i believe the functions can be rebound)

[zenith carbon]

(Probably can, i’m just the kinda girl to totally and utterly ignore keybinds)

[meager salmon]

play via facesmashing your keyboard

itll rotate... eventually

(unconfirmed)

[zenith carbon]

Well there goes my keyboard too

[zenith carbon]

3/5 squares filled and only one bingo

[celest kraken]

I use bipod, 4x on lmg, build a fort (or three), spent a round being and resuplying the sniper squad, and obviously i play sup.

what do i win, a sense of pride and acomplishment?

[snow python]

I win infinite sadness and frustration

[dry bobcat]

being meguca is suffering

[meager cypress]

those snipers must have been terrible if they needed that much ammo >.>

[empty acorn]

LOL

[meager salmon]

wheres the someone says "your armour looks awesome" and your ego gets too big square?

[velvet wing]

Fix glitch plz, thx

[brittle oak]

Also l86 with tactical, urk and quick mag slaps 😮‍💨

2.7 reload and 1.03/0.98 recoil

[flat sedge]

Gave up once due to constant flanking, became a hallway MG nest from half life + spawnpoint

[meager cypress]

My solution to flanking is not to be on the flanks, if there's a dude or two to absorb bullets for me I can take care of the problem usually XD

[fringe tree]

Still preferred it pre nerf… urk long barrel for that 80ms double tap on unprotected noggings

[velvet wing]

Pain

[livid carbon]

the state of support rn is really tragedy a, can't a dude just lay down some depressive fire and play human mortar?

[weary garden]

https://tenor.com/view/no-way-dude-no-oh-bugs-bunny-bugs-gif-22941840

[velvet wing]

I think support just needs dmrs lol

If medic can have access to smgs and ars, give support lmgs, brs, and dmrs

Dmr fits support like a glove. Would it be a pain to fight against? Maybe. Would it make support fun? Absolutely

[livid carbon]

or yk, fix movement and gun selection, one of those things is doable within hours

[weary garden]

One

[livid carbon]

our armor's already heavy af, our guns don't have to slow us down by 7km/h on top of that

[velvet wing]

I still think attachments shouldn't affect run speed unless it's like a giant mag

[celest kraken]

Support doesnt, ultimax is perfectly useable at 100m-200m

[weary garden]

Not if you pick normal which is the main concern

Well

"concern"

[velvet wing]

It's not as good as a dmr at that range for sure though

Honestly the L86 is better than the ulti for me most of the time

[weary garden]

Preferences

[livid carbon]

"concern" and if it was one then screw it no medium for support, not that difficult to make a class not suck big doo doo

[velvet wing]

It kills easier, has better ads time

[celest kraken]

It is perfectly good. I regularly outcompete dmr users at that range. Sure, you aint going to have an easy time hitting a dude who only has his head out a window at that that range but anyone whose full body is visible be it prone, standing, or running is fucked

[weary garden]

If you convince the community that taking normal armor off support is a good idea I'm finding you

[livid carbon]

ultimax at rank 100, everyone before that: 💀

[celest kraken]

Full auto > dmr

[velvet wing]

Truly support brained

Respek

[celest kraken]

Yea, bit of an issue for new players. Lmgs need more guns to fill it out so it isnt m249 and then 100 levels of nothing

[velvet wing]

Add dmrs. Boom more guns

[livid carbon]

ye that's why "fix movement on guns"
and pls don't come find me

[velvet wing]

My solution is fool proof

[weary garden]

Just fyi armor has a much much much larger impact than gun weight

[celest kraken]

Dude, support doesnt need dmrs

at best, give them the full auto one. It plays like a small magged lmg anyways

[weary garden]

So you would literally make the class slower

[livid carbon]

i mean: aug hbar, mg3, mg5, m60 and i think some i forgor

[celest kraken]

Give support flamenwerfer

[weary garden]

Models may be done but that is a different convo than good to go

[livid carbon]

*Flammenwerfer 🇩🇪

[livid carbon]

ye.........

me 'till support has mg3 💀

[weary garden]

Mhm

Some volume of fire guns are felt missing

Esp with the recent buffs to certain weapons through rpm

[inner monolith]

Gotta have RPK as well for that classy wood finish

[livid carbon]

oh ye i forgor 💀

[weary garden]

I'd argue anything is on the table just bc Larry with a reference can get a model done in an hour or three

It's the other parts like sound, stats, animation that take time

[livid carbon]

ye but those are the leaked sup guns

[weary garden]

Tru

[gilded dock]

Please let support just carry an m2 around: no aim down sights, just the little dot that the humvee gets. Let the m2 make holes like the pickaxe does. Put the fear of God into people as .50 cal rounds destroy the walls around them

If you're going to make him slow, at least double down and make him terrifying

[weary garden]

There's going far and then too far

This is an example of too far

A buildable Or map placed 50 cal is its own more reasonable discussion

[gilded dock]

I was mostly kidding... mostly.

[velvet wing]

I think support and engineer should have access to more squad buildables for sure. Maybe all of supports walls can go down instantly and be mildly reinforced?

[gilded dock]

All his walls get placed instantly already, but the idea of him having uniquely reinforced structures is interesting.

[velvet wing]

I'm saying both

[celest kraken]

Give support a shotgun

Differentiate him from other classes by giving him a shotgun instead of smgs

[inner monolith]

L86 is the support SMG anyway

Even after the nerfs SMGs can beam you from distances where shotguns wouldn't do much so I don't see how they wouldn't be a meme weapon

[flat sedge]

it is bingo night ain't it?

[flat sedge]

and RPD

[flat sedge]

more a heavy AR if anything

[paper vector]

High recoil + fast kill = short range = SMG, I guess.

[zenith carbon]

Real

[dusty plinth]

Not sure if this was mentioned already, but self resupply with the large ammo crate doesn't work, additionally when you're promted to self-resupply you aren't able to resupply anyone else with the RMB.

[patent timber]

I think that fair because if not you will have unlimited ammo by yourself

[dusty plinth]

I mean, you have unlimited health by yourself with the Medkit practically, also that doesn't address the fact that you can't supply ammo to others when the prompt shows.

[patent timber]

I mean medic unlimited health is a problem it need change so I don't think making another problem is a good idea

Medic need slower self heal tbh