Flinch / Aim Punch - Feedback

[rich iris]

i understand wanting a slower game. i do. but you have to actually make the game slower first, before you implement shit like that

[placid dagger]

maybe it'd fit hardcore mode, but that isn't out yet so let's not try to ruin the casual mode that most of the current player base enjoys

[rich iris]

otherwise you kill the game

[storm halo]

The attention span of the player base ain't long enough for that shit

Mf spaghetti arms in an arcade Minecraft fps game

[slate parrot]

So uh my thoughts on this, and this ties into support and recon mainly, is that the role of a machinegunner or a sniper is to strongly dissuade pushing or shooting an area through suppression. A machinegun IRL just obliterates you with high accuracy, and because of this you usually don't peak a machinegun no matter how good of a shooter you are.

This doesn't apply to videogames, so what videogames do is make you not want to peak the big, heavy machinegun out of fear of again being obliterated

This can be in the form of making the weapon strong, the player tanky with gunshields or armor or just raw HP, or simulated suppression with these blurry effects and screenshake

But if you're not afraid of a machinegunner like current support, what's the point?

In comparison recon scope glint at far enough distances force you to countersnipe or find cover because you know you can't kill them. They have distance as a protection vs the above approaches

[rich iris]

i'm afraid of supports. the armor is insane and the lmgs actually do good damage

so many fucking times i've caught a support sprinting but can't get through his armor before he flinched me into the stratosphere pre-flinch update

[slate parrot]

I get that esp with flinch in the mix, but current support wearing armor has the heaviest of the ADS and sprint penalties

[rich iris]

yeah. and the armor gives them enough time to ads and win the gunfight even if they dont start shooting first

i'd rather armor got removed and they buffed the ads/sprint for supports

cause i'm about sick of the desync causing my bullets to disappear on top of the stupid amount of health they have

[slate parrot]

Yeah armor just doesn't feel good for either side

Doesn't feel like it lasts long for a support player and inverse for the opponent

I would much rather see support's bulletproof ness come from their buildings

And their bipod to have much more value

[pastel shore]

That looks fucking terrible, battlebit would literally die overnight with that shit.

honestly don't know why mil-sim players just wont stick to squad.

Maybe it's because all the garbage mechanics aren't actually fun to play with.

[pastel shore]

What does attention span have to do with being able to see your target, or aiming, or shooting? Like what are you actually trying to say, besides just being an asshole for no reason?

[slate parrot]

Speed is the big tjing

[storm halo]

The milsim shit, I think the hardcore gamemode won't be popular at all

[pastel shore]

literally no one will play it, because mil-sims aren't fun when you stack so many anti-fun mechanics on top of each other. I just don't get why mil-simmers always go to the non-milsim game and immediately start trying to implement the exact same shit that made them stop playing their mil-sim games in the first place.

It has absolutely nothing to do with attention span whatsoever; it's just not fun.

[storm halo]

Oki tried this in 2016 and it failed, and now it won't be any different

By low attention span I meant the pace of the game, you get suppressed, and now you have to wait till your character is in control again to shoot back accurately

By that infantry overhaul he means adding gun divination which doesn't fit the game at all

[green dragon]

that looks terrible lmfao. like having remote access to their pc and turning the depth of field setting to 500%

[storm halo]

There are screen effects also, you have to wait till they are gone to shoot back

That's what I meant by attention span, shitty semi joke

[slate parrot]

I feel you can do it well if you do it right

I like battlefield 1's implementation

More scope sway, a little blur and a loss of hearing

[placid dagger]

Milsim players not insulting casual enjoyers for a single second challenge (impossible)

[slate parrot]

But circling back the role of an LMG isn't supposed to just be 100 bullets, it's supposed to be the fear of not wanting to approach 100 bullets and take a different route. Again, recon just kinda fills the role better

This whole tank archetype doesn't fit a large scale shooter unless you're talking literal tanks like the APC

Those 50cals and 7mm make you take an alternate approach to just shooting at he legs

When it comes to support, it's just "damn he got health"

To me that's boring for both sides

[green dragon]

hard not to balance it that way with how precise kb/m is. you can't convince people to not ego challenge a support since LMGs are always balanced to be worse than ARs DMRs Snipers. they take comfort knowing that machine gunners are all bark no bite, and subject to inaccuracy even with good aim.

when a machine gun can properly compete against weapons like that then it gets a little more interesting. say what you will about the ultimax but its accuracy and control can be downright oppressive at 50 to 75 meters

[turbid bane]

getting real lazy now aren't we, just post a single clip and call it a day. where are the 9001iq reddit essays that you're so famous for

[tight charm]

Suppression is a garbage mechanic just like aim punch is. Why do you want your screen to become a blurry mess? Are you the type to enable motion blur?

[fast thistle]

Why are you addressing me when you have me blocked?

[fast thistle]

The people in chat doesnt yield nearly enough exp to make it worth my time.

Find me a worthy challenger first.

[fast thistle]

Suppression is already in the game right now. What are your thoughts on that?

[heavy latch]

In the squad overhaul your character(a trained soldier) is holding a gun like if he would having Parkinson's and being overly undertrained.
Though the idea that you can't see farther away due to blur sounds good, but what squad did in the overhaul wouldn't fit bbr's hardcore mode at all.
We already have a supression system but its toned down too much, for questionable reasons.

Squad and future Bbr hardcore mode is ground and air difference

[opal swallow]

The squad overhaul isn't for gunfight realism, it's for teamplay and making the game less of a 'get sniped from the bushes by someone you never saw' fest
Suppression becomes much more important then, and gunfights actually begin involving tactics where one person covers and suppresses an area while others advance to close range for the kill
It's not what battlebit should do most likely but it does have it's merit.

[opal swallow]

Trust me, you aren't gonna get any actual conversation engaging this guy. I haven't seen a single good point from em in any discussion they were a part of. It's literally a flip flop between 'milsims are garbage and the worst type of game ever fuck milsims' and 'milsim players are always on their elitism high horse and won't let us enjoy non-milsim games'

[opal swallow]

Literally read any of the previous messages please. We aren't the ones saying casual games are crap garbage and saying every casual gamer likes to ruin games for everyone else. It's pretty obvious where this is showing up most here.

Wait a second you're even thumbs upping the stuff while you say that.

Jesus Howard Christ

[opal swallow]

Suppression, when done right, can be an excelent way to make support fire and teamplay work well. A super accurate and precise LMG rends you a lot of kills, a less accurate LMG with suppression lets you keep enemies unable to advance through a open area while allowing your teamates to close in the distance to actually score the kills. I'm not sure it would be the best for current battlebit, though it's by no means a useless feature.

[fair summit]

sounds like it'd be a good fit for the milsim mode 👍

[opal swallow]

Yeah, probably not for now, but the milsim mode having it would make the game much more teamplay focused

[fast thistle]

Yeah i know. He and his little troupe of 4 people thinks they own this thread because they are spamming clown reacts and have been complaing/crying about aimpunch since day 1 while offering no attempts at coherent, logical counterarguments.

It was kinda nice having him block me, even if it didnt completely stop him from responding with L takes and logical fallacies.

[fast thistle]

[inland nexus]

Is the suppression mechanic the screen blurring? Or like what are we talking about there's a lot of weird looking stuff in that clip.. like the gun movement for example

[runic ridge]

go play squad

I dont say it as an insult

play it, enjoy it

This game isnt squad, stop trying to turn it into that, it won't happen

[placid dagger]

My brother in christ, it's a joke. No need to get offended.

I was just poking fun at the "low attention span" comment

[runic ridge]

exactly my thoughts

[inland nexus]

Yeah I'm confused aren't they Adding a mil sim mode? Why do y'all want to add mil sim mechanics into an arcadeish game?

This convo is confusing lol

[runic ridge]

What kinda bugs me is this is a flinch topic suppression discussion does not belong in here as those are two entirely separate mechanics

[opal swallow]

honestly my issue is generally that they're calling the current mode 'mixed', when it clearly very much isn't, it's just arcade with some milsim mechanics kinda just tacked on

like the separation isn't gonna be 'make a milsim mode', it's gonna be make 2 new modes, one arcade and one milsim, and rn it was supposed to be a middle ground

and it makes complete sense to want and recommend things that would be good on the milsim moment here, because this isn't supposed to be the 'just arcade' mode

[inland nexus]

If I was them I would just keep it fully arcade for now and keep the milsim out but whatever they can and mechanics most people will find annoying if they really want to lol, the only thing that makes mechanics like that fun is if it's the whole point

It's not fun when they just half ass shit and throw it in there to add mil sim components to their 95% arcade game mode that they are calling "mixed"

[opal swallow]

I mean, i feel kinda the opposite
It's not nice to draw in people that would be into the more milsim aspects, and that have been following the previous very much advertised as milsim versions with a so called 'mixed' mode, and have it be 90% arcade

I just want the separation to happen sooner than later so i can finally play this to my fullest enjoyment

And i'm sure the arcade players agree to the last part lol

[inland nexus]

Pretty sure you just agreed with me on the disliking how they are currently handling it part, and we both agree the separation should happen, I think milsim components are only fun if it's the whole point not when it's half assed and 10% of the point is that what we disagree on?

[opal swallow]

yeah, pretty much

[inland nexus]

So you think milsim components are fun when they are just thrown into an arcadeish game?

[opal swallow]

no, i said yeah as in i agree

sakjdnlakjwdawnjdka

[inland nexus]

Ahh

We don't disagree then lol

[opal swallow]

This whole state of the game seems pretty much primed to get people rallied up on eachother, expecially when people trolling, baiting and just overall being asses about other people's suggestions(check out some of the other threads, there's people litterally admitting to going full on trolling the moment someone disagrees with their take)

[inland nexus]

Like I don't look at squad and think "wow that's a game full of annoying mechanics" I go "interesting that might be fun playing a game that's sole point is to be as realistic as possible" but when a game like battle bit throws one aspect of milsim say like aimpunch into there arcade game I think "this is annoying"

[inland nexus]

O yeah, certainly, I've seen very many people act way too emotional and outrageous in the comments. It's genuinely absurd how some people act in the suggestion chats.

[runic ridge]

Squad isnt really a game for people that want an FPS experience

It was in the middleground for a while but they're going full on milsim now

[slate parrot]

I just want to make medics regret running across the open while I lay down MG3 fire from a bipod in a sandbag tent is that too much to ask

(the answer to some players is yes)

[runic ridge]

... Have you tried hitting them?

[inland nexus]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument, don't you already do that?

[slate parrot]

the bipod is mid, the support guns are ok and squad points are inconsistent unless you're attacking

so not to the level it should be

[runic ridge]

Bipod is a meme but outside of that you can already do that like

[slate parrot]

the horizontal recoil on all the support guns sans ultimax are high to the point of not really being that great at rifle range ¯_(ツ)_/¯

sure you can do it but it'd be better with like an SG or an AK15

better volume of fire

[runic ridge]

Wouldn't it be unreasonable for M249 to handle better than an AR?

[slate parrot]

Would it

Heavier gun means less recoil

[runic ridge]

Are we having a realism talk here or video game talk?

[slate parrot]

Could be both tbh, what does the m249 offer for more recoil, slower movement speed, slower ADS and terrible control

70 more rounds is what the reload is supposed to trade for

[opal swallow]

do we currently have hip fire or point fire?

because depending on the answer control might be a good balancing factor or not

[slate parrot]

point fire, if you mean barrel directs the bullet

[opal swallow]

yeah

if we had some(slight) deadzoning implemented it could make controlability a real effective balancer, but that might be going too into milsim for y'all's taste

[slate parrot]

my point is the slow machinegun playstyle is right now just worse than an assault or medic with the M4. It really doesn't offer enough

like there's the outline, but it's not defined

[opal swallow]

for a game as focused on speed, i do agree support doesn't get anywhere near the benefit for sacrificing speed

right now the most effective builds are always the fastest cqb ones for a number of reasons, the battlefield is way too chaotic and people too on your face for it to be worth it sacrificing mobility

[runic ridge]

The recoil looks pretty tame for what it is, I don't agree with you at all that the guns are bad especially on a high HP class

I do agree medic and assault are just more meta classes

thats because speed is meta and armor is a one time thing thats unreplenishable

[slate parrot]

they're not bad, but they're not meta either

they're like high B class if we're doing tier list

[opal swallow]

Honestly, this might be off topic here but i could see getting the min speed you can have ingame, keeping it as is, but reducing the max speed to half it's difference to the min
Or at least clamp down on everything that overpasses 100% speed

[slate parrot]

way too many players would hate that

[opal swallow]

Slow moving players are already way slow, making them slower would be bad, but fast players throw the gameplay off for everyone but them, expecially with pdws and smgs

And i can say, playing with a bipoded m249 and full exo armor is not as slow as people would make it out to be unless your one metric is how no armor and smg is(because jesus i feel like a racecar whenever i spawn as medic)

[runic ridge]

Maybe you feel this way because you're running a bipod? They really dont feel difficult to control and the recoil numbers on them are not too bad either

I don't know what the RoF on them are ultimax feels a bit on the slower side but m249 seems to have a good rof

[slate parrot]

The only other game I can compare this to is planetside, and their choice to balance large scale is health while this game chooses speed

[runic ridge]

planetside and balance does not belong in the same sentence

[slate parrot]

it's 700, pretty baseline. And I run a good vert grip/long barrel build on it with normal armor. It just isn't as rewarding recoil wise compared to an SG, M4, or really any of the other ARs for that mid range

not to mention way less responsive

[runic ridge]

Yeah thats pretty baseline. I'd rather run tactical or flash hider over long barrel personally but personal preference I guess

flash hider cuts on horizontal which is the main type of recoil I would worry about

[slate parrot]

and even that doesn't cut the horizontal by much

[runic ridge]

Its about a %25 reduction thats pretty respectable amount imo

[slate parrot]

you talk about controllable, but the jump from 0.60 horizontal of M4 at 700 rpm vs 1.3, also at 700RPM is insane

[runic ridge]

Yeah M4 is just on a different level

but on the same talk M4 also makes just about any other AR pointless by existing if you care at all about control

[slate parrot]

M4 is supposed to be what every gun is balanced around, so yea, M249 is not on its level

The other guns at least trade snappiness or TTK for it

m249 trades bullets

[runic ridge]

I don't think they are supposed to be directly comparable

You're not trading bullets you're talking about a gun meant for a totally different class to begin with

There is a reason support isnt given anything but LMGs which is to account for high armor

[slate parrot]

Dude don't get me started on the joke that is the armor system

[runic ridge]

Its kinda like how Planetside was supposed to be but then they gave heavies SMG/Shotguns which was and still is dumb as fuck

[slate parrot]

we will legit be here all night

[runic ridge]

Yeah I have my problems with the armor system

But at the same time support armor is busted good

[slate parrot]

it feels busted to play against

never when you're playing with

that speed loss loses you way too many gunfights and your arms being exposed makes that problem worse

but jumping a support feels equally terrible because all their armor is wide open on their back

if you're gonna have chest armor, you can't have arms and legs just invalidate it completely

[runic ridge]

leg meta is real

[slate parrot]

it's really arm meta

with those fat blocks

[runic ridge]

leg cause people put strafe spam on a macro and then call it ''skill''

[slate parrot]

right

either way I'm gonna talk with some medic main types to see what compromises there are to be made

a good middleground between suppression mechanics and nothing

[runic ridge]

I dont see how suppression would solve the problems you identified with the class but I'm too tired to argue against suppression honestly

In my eyes if a class feels bad to play you improve that till it doesn't, I don't compute how introducing mechanics that make everyone else miserable helps

[fast thistle]

I am.
Well not right now, im at work atm.

[fast thistle]

And battlebit isnt a stale ass lower than mid-tier counterstrike arcade shooter.

So i dont see why people still crying over aimpunch, it was reduced. Its fine.

[runic ridge]

I do follow Squad from time to time and the irony is Squad is having aimpunch introduced now because certain types in the playerbase and dev team decided that suppression alone doesn't cut it

[slate parrot]

I don't either, my goals are to
Buff the class's slower gear in speed
Improve armor
Ease building costs
Improve weapon handling/variety

[runic ridge]

If support moved faster and could replenish armor it would instantly be the meta choice

yes the big LMGs arent top tier guns but do you conceptualize how good the uptime is on those guns before you need to hit R

[slate parrot]

all the changes will be reasonable and discussed with other high end players

I get that's not a very sound promise

but uh that's the best I can do

[runic ridge]

I mean sure I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm just saying ask for those things and you do not even need suppression or anything else anymore..

[slate parrot]

yea that's the idea lol

[opal swallow]

Idk, squad feels pretty good from the playtests

[slate parrot]

It'll give the class a stronger identity on the field as a defender

instead of a tank

[opal swallow]

I don't like the idea of any infantry unity just flat out being a 'tank', expecially on a game with super low ttk

even brushing off realism aside, it doesn't work at all

[slate parrot]

improving armor doesn't mean just buffs btw

so we're clear

[opal swallow]

yeah, agreed, just like commenting on the idea of support as a tank in general

with that said, aimpunch does feel pretty ok rn

[fast thistle]

Tbh, what we have currently should be the "normal" mode and they could release an "easy" mode later instead of a "milsim" mode.
Because looking at this feedback thread, what we currently have is "too hardcore".

So what this very loud minority in here wants is an arcade shooter version of battlebit with all the phat trimmed off it. A barebones shooter with the roblox aesthetic.

So i say let them have it. Give them the babby's first battlefield clone they want, im all about compromise. 🤷‍♀️

[opal swallow]

Look as much as i agree that the way people are going about this is kinda ridiculous in some points, i'm not sure belitling arcade shooters will keep the discussion on course

[fast thistle]

Im not, dont worry.

[opal swallow]

Like, let them be the nerds that go all 'what i don't like sucks, y'all's games are a snoozefest', we need not stoop to that level

[slate parrot]

csn you go 5 minutes without trying to start a fight

[opal swallow]

🙏

[placid dagger]

FYI @opal swallow this is what people are talking about when complaining about "milsim elitism". A clown that couldn't handle that his arguments and shitty behaviour was not accepted is talking about compromise is the cherry on top

[placid dagger]

I doubt anyone that actually said shit like that to you, were 100% serious

[opal swallow]

Look pal, i've just seen this, i've also seen yall in 5 other threads, so don't even try pulling this

[opal swallow]

"We were not serious is a fantastic retrieve, truly"

[placid dagger]

Honestly I feel like you get way too offended by jokes

as an example this #1133360306278645810 message

like honestly mate

[rich iris]

colossus, i'm not here to argue with you. i just want you to know he spent 3 days talking down to everyone who disagreed with him while acting like he was more intelligent than everyone in the channel and we were all too stupid to hold a conversation. so i don't think most people have any respect for him or his position

you seem like a stand up guy colossus, most of people don't have a problem with milsim. i specifically wouldn't mind milsim mechanics. but you can't just slam them into the game AS IT IS right now. it's going to massively fuck up the flow (which right now is balls to the fucking ceiling) and just result in the game feeling not fun to play.

if you want milsim to work it needs the whole suite

not picking and choosing a couple of limiting mechanics and acting like it's enough

that's where i stand atm. i'd rather shit like aim punch and suppression didn't exist IN THE CURRENT GAME STATE

because it's too fast paced to have those mechanics

for a more hardcore mode. with more limited pace,move speed, and milsim mechanics. absolutely. go nuts.

it just won't work to half-ass all the features on the game that we're all playing right now

[placid dagger]

Yeah the current implementation is the worst of both worlds

It leaves the crowd that stuck with the milsim game unsatisfied while annoying the new casual crowd they are trying to attract

[rich iris]

pretty much. it's a pretty unique shooter, and i'm having a blast (just about 162 hours played now) but it's in a kind of odd place.

i don't want to say it needs to pick a side, because i think with specific modes both can co-exist.

especially with community servers

[runic ridge]

I dont think the game is worst of both worlds. It feels mostly arcade with a lot of tacked on mechanics to cater to casuals like mag combining / bleed management to slow down fast players.

I dont think anyone could make flinch an enjoyable mechanic but its more tolerable post update

[opal swallow]

I wouldn't really say there's much slowing down fast players from what I've seen
But I guess that's a standard thing, it legitimately boggles me how fast and snappy movement is even compared to bf4 or counter strike

[placid dagger]

Those games are not known for their movement though?

[rich iris]

it reminds me a bit of titanfall 2, before people got really good at slidehopping

[runic ridge]

original counter strike or go?

those differ a bit in movement

[fast thistle]

I cant help it if someone gets rattled by my genuine opinions.

Think about it for a second.
If the people in here think the current mechanics are too punishing, they will keep asking for the current version of the game (normal mode) to have mechanics removed, meanwhile devs are supposed to make a mode with more punishing mechanics.

If they make an "easy" mode: They can remove all the punishing mechanics from the new mode, keep the current version of the game, slap a hardcore mode sticker on it and call it a day.
At least according to the people in here, right?

If devs make a "milsim mode": they have to make a new version of a game, and still find ways of pleasing the loud minority by removing mechanics from the current version. Its double the work.

[runic ridge]

You can actually bhop like a monster in 1.6

or in source

[placid dagger]

yea old cs movement is very different

[runic ridge]

I understand why they killed it in go

you can still do it, just very RNG

[fast thistle]

I recognise youre not "picking sides", but thanks for being aware and intellectually honest enough to see through the wool hes trying to pull over your eyes.

[runic ridge]

Either way completely different kind of game it wont make for a good comparission

[placid dagger]

This comes up way too much in discussions

[opal swallow]

Yea I'm mostly talking about go
Like there's a reason this very not realistic shooter has some inertia to movement, and it's by no means a milsim
Having a game that has been labeled a middle ground between arcade and realism for a good while having easier to abuse movement than most battlefield games(yeah emphasis on most, we don't talk about 42) kinda just leaves a bad taste in my mouth
And i have like 300 hours on phantom forces of all things, I'm not against movement shooters

[rich iris]

i feel like everytime movement ends up strong in a game (where it wasn't designed with it in mind, for example titanfall) it ends up getting hella nerfed (for example, apex, which is titanfall with a new coat of paint and all the cool movement is dead)

[opal swallow]

It's just that the labels and a lot of the way the game is presented kinda feel like they can absolutely pull a number on anyone expecting a less super fast movement shooter, especially with the bf comparisons

[runic ridge]

2042 is a garbage game on many fronts but it has pretty fun movement though?

I'd kill to be able to slide in this game like I do in 2042

[opal swallow]

This isn't exactly what I'm going at but to each their own

Fjjddkskfid

[rich iris]

hahaha

sorry

it's for sure in a weird spot. and i think a huge portion of the games popularity is actually filling the gap that cod has left since they drank the milsim koolaid

people wanna run around and shoot people

(note i'm not against milsim, but cod was never a milsim game and all their efforts to slow the game down to cater to campers... sorry "Sentinels" has left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths)

[placid dagger]

Honestly this game wouldn't be this popular if both cod and battlefield didn't shit the bed at the same time

[runic ridge]

Oh I forgot cod is like milsim flavor now

[rich iris]

i'm sure a huge portion of that crowd will move to xdefiant whenever that launches.

[runic ridge]

how the turns have tabled

[placid dagger]

but in capitilizing on this they kinda fucked over the people who were genuinely interested in the milsim version

[rich iris]

yea exactly^

[fast thistle]

I mean, this thread isnt about having a constructive discussion that leads to agreeing on a compromise that we can push for together. I've tried that already, thats what set off the "energy" eminating from the regulars in here. You can tell from looking at who's throwing clown reacts instead of contributing to an on-topic discussion.

This thread is about squeezing every little bit of dopamine out of ones brain by endlessly bickering and disagreeing with each other, achieving nothing in the process.

[placid dagger]

honestly the mode split should be top priority right now

[rich iris]

the cod milsim is turbo dogshit. just slow every action in the game down to stop people from wanting to run around

[placid dagger]

so that we can actually give good feedback

[opal swallow]

Yeah, very

[rich iris]

it would help a lot with the differing opinions

[placid dagger]

instead of getting into weird arguments

[rich iris]

and the 2 modes could get a lot better targeted fixes

[opal swallow]

Cod and milsim in the same sentence seems just
Insane
I don't wanna get near it, something tells me it's nothing to do with milsim

[rich iris]

milsim is somewhat incorrect, the term they throw around is "Tactical"

[runic ridge]

sir this is aimpunch thread

[rich iris]

but the ultimate goal of the changes call of duty has been making to their game have all been for the purpose of slowing the game

[placid dagger]

this guy man

can't make this shit up

[opal swallow]

I mean, they're not the only one but I can't help but agree..

[fast thistle]

Exactly my point.

[opal swallow]

[rich iris]

i like that nobody was even saying anything, we're all just casually chatting, setting aside our differences and vibing, and he goes to throw shade

[slate parrot]

the only discussion worth having about aimpunch is that we didn't have it before and life was good

then oki added it to counter snipers (???)

[rich iris]

kafka can't for one second not be the center of the discussion and if you disagree with him you're intellectually dishonest

[pastel shore]

Do yourself a favor - go ahead and control-F in this thread, then scroll up to the first post they made, and read down from there. You will understand.

[placid dagger]

Because he's just that stupid. He saw that colossus has similar ideas and now he's desperately clinging on to him lmao

[opal swallow]

Look, I could do that, but also every interaction I've had with you has been horrid so far so...

[runic ridge]

Snipers are a legitimate issue but it doesn't warrant punishing everyone else with excessive aimpunch either

Sniper problem has a lot more to do with frustration than actual balance though

[rich iris]

anyway, y'all have fun. colossus you're a g, i hope the milsim split comes soon and it's perfect and you get to eat icecream. if it's really good i'll prolly check it out too

[placid dagger]

Snipers are really hard to balance ngl

[pastel shore]

You've had like 1 interaction with me, meanwhile haven't actually seen all the discussion I've contributed.

[rich iris]

tbh everyone deserves icecream. except kafka

[placid dagger]

@opal swallow mate you are being a little too sensitive about the milsim elitism jokes on the medic thread. Compared to the shit kafka did that is literally nothing.

[opal swallow]

I've been putting off Watching this king of the ho episode for so long, Jesus
Well gotta work tomorrow so I'm gonna enjoy the rest of my Sunday

[rich iris]

🍦

[placid dagger]

🍨

wanna start a war over cone or bowl @rich iris ?

[rich iris]

hah nah. all icecream is good

[runic ridge]

[slate parrot]

anyways @runic ridge the recoil on the m249 feels like something you'd see on an m60 not an m249

[runic ridge]

I don't know wouldn't an M60 be like the LMG equivalent of a heavy hitter weapon? Kinda like SCAR/FAL etc?

[slate parrot]

accurate at close and poor at longer medium

[runic ridge]

Cause the heavy hitters ARs absolutely have big recoil numbers on them

[fast thistle]

I'll make it even easier for them, here is what set you off:
#1133360306278645810 message

I have nothing to hide or be ashamed off. I tried having a discussion, but instead of trying your best to cope up a good counterargument or constructive criticism, you veer off-topic, throw ad hominems and spam clown reacts like you believed they were good arguments.

[fast thistle]

@opal swallow (obviously i wouldnt bother reading past my post)

[slate parrot]

yes/no, again, for a slower handling gun you should really be rewarded with something hard hitting and controllable

In a world without armor, it should really be the high risk high reward gun of being caught out of position vs being set up

that's what suppression, armor and all the rest are supposed to do

like you could balance this game around phantom forces stats and the game would not die

not that we should

[runic ridge]

Idk whats high risk about setting up a tent somewhere and waiting for someone to walk into your line of sight

The TTK on the M249 still feels fast enough that if I get the drop on a group of players I absolutely shred them

[slate parrot]

considering the visual recoil on medium scopes

[pastel shore]

#1133360306278645810 message

Here's the actual link; have fun @opal swallow.

[slate parrot]

I don't think you'd find them really setting up some long off in the distance tent

more like a bunker in a building that'll get c4 rushed the moment someone gets close

like you're still countered by c4, recon, flanks, the entire ethereal clan except walk, etc

so for me, it wouldn't be unbalanced in comparison to current meta

[placid dagger]

Pulling something like this after implying that other people are trying to gaslight someone is just an incredible summary of clowntrap's character 👌

[runic ridge]

I havent ever used an LMG with a medium scope but its also pretty much unusable on an AR without resorting to tap firing or having high enough FoV that the medium scope is meaningless

[slate parrot]

they're useful on scar/ak15 tapfire which sounds niche but is really effective

as well as aug

[runic ridge]

Yes I run my Scar that way since its otherwise a downgrade over an AK-15, so I try to give it a purpose that way.

Still not very viable

[placid dagger]

the way the zoom works is a bit wonky

[slate parrot]

we could use some more 1.5/2x scopes

in general

[runic ridge]

Yeah I could use that

[placid dagger]

we could also use an overall zoom fix

[runic ridge]

I would love variable scopes.

like 1.5x to 3x or something like that

instead of the top mounted sights

[slate parrot]

better than the 5x scopes we have now

[runic ridge]

Yeah well if you judge your LMG based on how it performs with a medium scope you're kinda blaming the wrong thing

You're effectively multiplying the recoil you feel by orders of magnitudes by putting one on

[slate parrot]

I'm not blaming it with bipod, i'm not blaming it with medium scopes

[tight charm]

Wonder if the devs even read this thread lol.

[slate parrot]

I'm comparing it with its ttk equivalents

[placid dagger]

they get summaries from mods etc.

[tight charm]

are the mods milsimers. I pray not.

[slate parrot]

I'm one of the guys who tells the devs what's in these threads. unfortunately there'

s like 80 threads to keep up with

[tight charm]

rip

[slate parrot]

anyways my current focus has been purely what makes support feel good, it's weapons, bandaging, gear, etc. theres some good but it's lost a lot with recent updates

[placid dagger]

like the movement speed?

[opal swallow]

I finish episode, go to bed, check phone, and 4 pings
Can yall like chill
Yeah I got the memo on this dude a while back, but that doesn't make em the only person being weird and beligerent about milsim/arcade across a bunch of threads
Now I'm gonna go pass the fuck out

[slate parrot]

Everything in here

[placid dagger]

Man I completely forgot about squad points lmao

[runic ridge]

See this is not an LMG problem. Its a medium scope problem, it sucks for automatic weapons and I'd argue even on DMRs I'd rather have a red dot.

Its good for single firing so its ideal for sniper rifles and not much for anything else

[slate parrot]

again, the weapon, class, whatever you feel encompasses it doesn't fit the role of a support gunner

[fast thistle]

Cheers, both examples show my W's and your L's.

[pastel shore]

Sure, anything is possible if you're just delusional enough

[storm halo]

The last thing I want is playing with random ass people that don't know anything, The majority of people don't even talk so you are gonna scare off those. I have asked rank 60 mfs to place down a rally point, and they followed with 'whats a rally point?' or didn't say anything at all

You will kill more than half of the player base

Having people that actually listen and are helpful is nice but sadly they are pretty rare

[fast thistle]

Of course they dont.

Ive commented on this before:
#1133360306278645810 message

But as you can tell from the usual clown react posters, this fact is of no concern because their business in here isnt to give qualitative suggestions and make strong arguments for reasonable improvements to the game. Its to impotently ragepost and argue.

The only feedback channels that might be read by devs or community managers are the ones on servers that separate the actual suggestions from the discussions.

[rotund solar]

you make alot of good points and you are doing great 👍

[heavy latch]

Yeah thanks for reiterating squad's overhaul.
Soviet said a good amount of points and "walk" you ignore and you say "ah the casual fanboys said :mirsim is poohpooh, milsim is bad >:("
Its funny ngl.
Uh nuh uh

[pastel shore]

tbf it's mostly bad UI that leads to that; there isn't even any indication you are SL. I've been promoted to SL halfway through the match and had no idea until I happened to press tab.

Building is also clunky, and squad stuff isn't common in games, afaik squad is the only other game that has spawn beacons, so if you didn't play that it doesn't surprise me.

Cleaning up the UI, streamlining building and stuff would go a long way. Lastly, some game modes don't allow for respawn beacons at all so if players play those more often it could just be they get used to not having them and forget to place them in the other game modes

tbh though mods should probably remake this thread entirely; there's a lot of discussion but most of it is centered around from before the changes; a fresh thread would help get things back on topic.

I still think that the aim punch is too high on some weapons, it should be capped at the value that 27 damage weapons are. That's about the value where it stops having any real affect on gunfights that occur within short range sights effective range, and only has an impact on medium/long ranged scopes, although it is minimal it's enough to make it a bit more challenging at 100+ meters, which is pretty much the best we're going to get and pretty close to what I originally wanted. At the moment, groza, ak15, fal, scar, dmrs/snipers still aim punch too much.

The ak15/fal atm are especially noticeable, as the guns themselves are strong irrespective of the aim punch, so when you do get punched because of them it's often a lost fight and feels like a cheap death; no different than prepatch aim punch.

[humble nest]

it always seems to be people running face first into people complaining that they would have won that fight if it weren't for some outside force causing them to make bad decisions

[storm halo]

Yea squad leader notification should be in a better location.
Haven't played squad, my PC is too weak for that, closest thing is a ripoff on roblox

That had like 5 people on it

[heavy latch]

people who play squad & arma :🤓
People who play deadline & fireteam : 😎

[royal sable]

Wtf is deadline/fireteam 😂

Swat gang represent

[green dragon]

ppl who play ravenfield

[opal swallow]

Could play it but my ram card did a fucky wucky and I gotta wait on a new one

Was way fun

[heavy latch]

go look it up,
masochist.

[solid thistle]

we won

[stray prawn]

true, if you want suppression and aim punch plus whatever else they want just wait till they releases the milsim mode then they can have all that shit to themselves

[fast thistle]

No, devs should release an easy mode where "punishing" mechanics like being able to lean, prone, aimpunch, suppression, needing to respawn on a rally point and needing to reload is removed.
No need for a "milsim" mode, people play battlebit to have some fun and relax. Some players are having trouble playing the game right now, devs should cater more to those players since they are the ones who will leave if the game gets more complicated.

Keep the baseline we have now, or tbf i wouldn't mind if devs upped the difficulty since the game is way too easy now.
But definitively add an easier alternative for the people who enjoy or need it.

Anyways, devs already reduced aimpunch to a good level, now all that needs to be done is implement the remaining 40% of my suggestion and this thread can be closed.

[zenith prairie]

Devs should just release a mode where everyone wins ☺️

[fast thistle]

Im sure the people in this thread would love that. An easy mode where equipping the vector gives you double HP.

[pastel shore]

Most of the people you hate so much are very much trying to make sure that the game doesn't turn into "ez" skilless mode

maybe you need to do a bit of self evaluation because you don't even seem to understand the core topics you are throwing your tantrums in

[placid dagger]

trap not slandering people he doesn't agree with challenge (impossible)

[opal swallow]

I mean, I don't think "milsims"(be them casual or hardcore), arcade shooters(same), tactical shooters or whatever are easy, but the required skills are different
Someone may seem losing to a player that is worse at the moment to moment twitch gameplay worse and lacking in skill, but positioning, team coordination and figuring out what you plan on doing before doing it are skills on their own
Yeah, the original comment is dumb and elitist, but I feel there isn't anyone trying to make the game easy here, just trying to get the skills they value most in a shooter a bit more importance

Of course twitch aim reflexes and recoil control are important, even in many "milsims", but they don't need to be the all encompassing metric for skill

[opal swallow]

On a separate note, I don't think you realize how damming the tone of your posts are to people around you and the points you're trying to make

[pastel shore]

milsims generally stack a ton of features on top of each other which dramatically reduce skill gaps; they are some of the easiest shooters in all of gaming.

Squad, for example, has virtually no skill requirement at all with all the changes they've made. The slow ADS, sway, and other features remove 95% of twitch shooting out, but at the same time, the actual shooting itself is incredibly easy(meaning if you are pre-adsed, you are at an overwhelming advantage), and even if you miss, your opponent can't see to return accurate fire. There's no movement at all, it's so slow and inertia is poorly implemented that there's absolutely no problem hitting moving targets from any distance. TTK is 1 bullet in most cases, sometimes 2. Positioning is extremely simple; there's virtually no nuance. As long as you are positioned in a way that lets you get the first shot off, you will win 99% of your gunfights assuming it's not your first time touching a mouse and keyboard. Teamwork is very basic in actual gameplay, but requires a few players doing boring stuff like spending the entire game driving trucks around and SLs have to spend time building FOBs, but those aren't actually so much teamwork as they are annoying chores.

Overall strategy is honestly not complex, when I played with 3-4 other guys we had about a 90% win rate, 2 players who just fragged out and interrupted logi lines, 1 guy running logi and one guy who liked going around placing fobs in annoying places.

[opal swallow]

That's not a lack of skill, that's a focus on team coordination and suppression, the game is on the absolute end of the spectrum when it comes to immediate moment to moment action <> team strategy, and frankly it don't think that is skill less
You have to always be on comms with your team and be sure to have someone suppressing and covering for you, it's not even easy to hit people like you say, at least on the infantry playtests, suppression is vital for movement but they do enable you and your team to close in for the kills

All in all I think it's OK to not like these aspects of a game and not be into them, but to swat them aside as not requiring any skill seems at best simplistic and at worst mean spirited

I'm not saying battlebit should go all the way, or even half the way on the scale, but as it stands there are barely any factors In positioning and strategy that matter

You can find more importance to positioning in half the battlefield games, or even counter strike or valorant than on battlebit at the moment

I don't think that is skill-less, but I also think it's a bit of wasted potential to some extent

[pastel shore]

That's not a lack of skill, that's a focus on team coordination and suppression

bro, you a) don't need to do that, b) has literally zero skill requirement. Team coordination isn't even a thing in squad, if 4 guys can win 90% or more of the time as long as the lobby isn't empty. That's an extremely low requirement for team coordination

[placid dagger]

battlefield I can agree, I don't agree with cs or valo though

can we not be trap and call each other skilless for liking different aspects of games?

[opal swallow]

Are you implying being able to properly engage with your team mates and formulate/rearange attack plans on the fly is skill-less?

[rich iris]

mechanical skill and technical skill are different

[opal swallow]

Yet they are both skills

[pastel shore]

You literally don't need to do any of that, that level of teamwork is absolutely not required in squad. And yes, being "near your team" is not a skill. Suppressing fire is not a skill, you are literally shooting in the general direction of an enemy. There is literally zero skill requirement in doing so

[rich iris]

and yet one is more demanding. there's a ton of players in battlebit that are better than me. but if i stop playing their game and trying to outaim/outreact/outskill them, i can win by positioning better and knowing how they think

[opal swallow]

Which is a good aspect to any game, it feels good to have skills you can use to turn games around, even when you don't have the raw reaction time

I mean or I could start snorting up my ritalin, that also works

[humble nest]

this is pretty much how I am successful as support/ultimax
I know they will get bored after about 5 seconds of no action because they are squirrels, then they die

[zenith prairie]

true, people irl don't tend to get massive kill streaks if they aren't much better equipped

aa discord didn't load messages

[zenith prairie]

was in response to that

[opal swallow]

Eh, I don't think realism is all that important, look at rainbow six

[rich iris]

it works vs 90% of players. the 10% it doesn't work on are just that much better than me

[humble nest]

thats about right

[pastel shore]

If you want games where where teamwork matter; apex and halo are both examples were team coordination is significantly more impactful than in squad, by an order of magnitude.

In halo, one of the most important skills you can learn is to trade damage, then duck behind cover so your ally can push up and take the fight with their full shields. It's simple, but takes practice and coordination to actually pull off, much much more so than in squad. halo also has so much aim assist so that aim is irrelevant, there's virtually no mechanical skill gap in halo when talking about controllers. The difference between diamond and top onyx players isn't aim, it's teamwork, positioning, and game knowledge

[opal swallow]

Also, I know plenty of people, myself and half my in person friend group included, that find these aspects of squad engaging and skillful, are you absolutely sure this is not a personal taste thing? After all I don't think squad is exactly struggling

[opal swallow]

Why would we want to minmax skill levels to this point in a 256 person big map with vehicles game? One thing is to use squad formations and team size to create engaging combat where the whole theater ends up mattering, rather than every single engagement being a ranked 1v1 match, the other I feel goes into esports level

Exports aren't a bad thing, mind you, but the focus in twitch reflex shooting also takes away from the bf-like packaging the game offers

I say this as someone with 100+ hours of phantom forces of all games, but after a while the giant battles that end up bottlenecked into less than 50m smg engagements over and over just start to feel mind numbing

[pastel shore]

You can find it engaging all you want; I don't have any problem with that.

But it is not skillful. Skills require actually having to learn and practice something. I literally dropped 40 kills in the FIRST squad game I ever played. The only thing you need to do in squad is learn the basic layouts of the map and realize that first shot is 95% of shooting mechanics, everything else is so incredibly basic you can figure it out in 1-2 games and hop in with experienced players and be on even ground.

As far as shooters go, squad is literally one of the least skillful and easiest to learn.

There is literally NOTHING wrong with liking the game for what it is. But trying to argue it has a high skill ceiling or a lot of skill requirements is just factually incorrect; every single category you can think of it has lower skill requirements and lower skill ceiling than virtually every single other FPS out there. Most mil-sims are like that - they intentionally reduce skill gaps to extreme because that's part of the whole mil-sim thing, there's no such thing as a 1 man army.

[opal swallow]

If it's really like that, then why would that be a problem? Please explain why the very casual, again, 256 player game, needs to forego most of the benefits of being such a game with potential for different ranges of engagement and environmental destruction, vehicle combat and team coordination if it means keeping it as twitch shooty and comp-y as possible?
Like if this was something like cod ranked 5v5 or whatever I'd get it but this is very much inspired by games like old battlefields, squad and whichever other games. Being skillful is one thing, being a competitive twitch shooter is not what this is or has ever been.

[humble nest]

The real skill is buying the cheatbox so you can run a keyboard and mouse and also get the controller aimbot running in them

[opal swallow]

Pfff

[opal swallow]

The real skill is crunching up the ritalin pills and taking aim coaching courses

Fr tho don't do that it can make you high as fuck

Or at least don't do that without anyone near you I'm not anyone's mom

[humble nest]

that is the trick to being a streamer

high as F on microdosed meth for 16 hours a game, eventually people will notice you're good at video games

[opal swallow]

Professional fps athlete grindset

Ngl I don't know how people manage meth, even a bit too much adhd meds with alcohol gets my brain going sideways until 4 am

Shit must be fucked up

[humble nest]

if it was meth, you'd be building traps in your house with kitchen knives and molding scraps

(this is a real thing)

[opal swallow]

God probably

[pastel shore]

but anyway, my point really is I mostly oppose mechanics that reduce skill gaps dramatically, and a lot of those happen to be mil-sim mechanics. kafka out of line and out of their mine with their statements that players like me want an "easy" mode when nearly all my positions are against easy mode mechanics

[humble nest]

I also oppose anything that makes things easy, the game should be suffering incarnate
I want to see 3 months to 12 years of physical therapy every time you get shot

with a 25% chance you get addicted to painkillers

[rich iris]

go the tarkov route. damage to body parts permanently debuffs you

[opal swallow]

Honestly, I'm not really opposed to games having skill requirements in the sense of skill you mean, but I also think there is a point where the skill gets so much focus it starts to strip down on the rest of a game's flavor and my enjoyment of it
Most milsims aren't hard-core by any stretch of the imagination, but that's a good thing imo, and although battlebit isn't a milsim, it has a lot of both old battlefield and squad inspirations, which I feel clash a lot with the current focus on close range twitch reflex shooting, which feels very out of place

Oopd

[pastel shore]

Because the entire reason I'm not playing squad, and I AM playing battlebit, is because it has skill expression and that is what makes it fun. Squad is not fun for me.

I don't want to see battlebit changed into something that isn't fun by adding mechanics that reduce the skill gap to the point where it's not engaging.

There are games that exist for players who want that, they can go play that. Battlebit, as is, is a fantastic mix that results in a high skill gap that is incredibly fun.

It just makes no sense to me why players who want games like squad don't go play squad; other than the reason is that they don't actually like squad, they like the idea of squad, but the actual gameplay itself isn't fun so they go to other games and try to turn it into squad.

[opal swallow]

No one is "turning" battlebit into squad, the game is specifically going to have two versions to accommodate both kinds of players, however this game was also originally much closer to squad than say MW2, and the very thing you say has been done to people who were previously into the games' more milsim-ish(again, it was never a full milsim) versions

[pastel shore]

So I argue against things like flinch(which was only added on release) and suppression, which would be awful, and instead argue for things/balance/features which improve the overall balance of the game but stick true to it's current nature.

[pastel shore]

except for a ton of players are trying very much to do exactly that - in fact, a ton are literally directly arguing for the exact mechanics from squad. Those are actual, serious suggestions being put forth.

[rich iris]

battlebit is more like titanfall than any modern call of duty

[opal swallow]

Again, those people have mostly been the ones that were following the game they like and have slowly seen it turn away from stuff they found enjoyable, I don't blame any of them, and I feel is kinda hypocritical to think they are trying to "turn" the game into a milsim, when the exact opposite has slowly happened

[final olive]

O.o I mean Battlebit plays nothing like TItanfall which was actually a movement shooter rather than a shooter with weirdly high movement

[opal swallow]

Honestly titanfal plays really well yea

Battlebit just feels awkward at the higher movespeeds

[rich iris]

and call of duty doesn't have any movespeed/movement anymore. the gameplay is battlebit ttk with very dark corners people like to sit in because moving is punished

[pastel shore]

and yet those things were changed exactly because even the mil-sim players didn't like them

[rich iris]

hence my comparison, that battlebit is more like titanfall than any modern cod

because modern cod gameplay is to camp in ads staring at doors

[opal swallow]

I'm sorry what? You mean the game attracted arcade gamers, that then didn't like the milsim features and changed things? Thus attracting more arcade gamers, doing the opposite of what you had previously described milsim players doing to games?

[final olive]

I mean the game already has suppression it is just pointless that no one ever notices which is sort of worst of all worlds. It either needs to at least be noticable or needs to be removed so the devs can't point at it like it is already a thing.

[opal swallow]

Yeah

I'm for the former, since if you can't properly engage people doing dummy rush into open field, you might as well stop them sniping you

But I'd rather it be like bf1 suppression, where it does nothing up close and needs at least 50m to kick in

[final olive]

Though I'd like suppression conceptually if there was no headglitching, since then you'd have to be significantly vulnerable while applying area denial (which is effectively what suppression is). But that won't be going away so w/e

[rich iris]

does headglitching even work? bullets come out of your gun barrel so it's kinda awkward to actually have a head angle where you can shoot

[pallid crown]

@rich iris has earned the Tier I Member role!

[rich iris]

??

neat

[final olive]

No, bullets only come out of your gun when you hip fire. They come out of your forehead when you ADS

[humble nest]

its like siege, it comes out of the center of the retical

[final olive]

height over bore is never a factor when ADS

[opal swallow]

This is pretty nice imo

It's the best of both worlds

[final olive]

I am not a fan, but I really dislike headglitching as a mechanic. It just makes defensive positions WAY stronger for no real reason

[safe hamlet]

obstacles in your face but not on the crosshair can still block your shots, your character raises the gun up. it's not really perfect middle of the screen

[final olive]

if your sight is clear your shot is clear 100% of the time

The game does some gun collision stuff visually, but it does not have a gameplay impact other than not aiming if you are too close to a wall in some situations

[pastel shore]

you can, though it's not very effective in BB since your hitbox is so large.

It's more effective to stand behind stomach/chest high cover and lean back and forth than it is to try and headglitch

[rich iris]

yeah that's what i've found

[opal swallow]

God do people even do that here? Jesus

[final olive]

That is part of the "high skill gameplay"

similar with prone hitbox disjointing with sprint and whatnot

[opal swallow]

Eww

[rich iris]

i mean, movement mechanics/things that change your characters position/using them properly is a skill. "drop shotting" has been a thing for like 20 years, if you're not ready for it at this point that's a you problem. lean spam isn't really a problem since you should be body shotting anyway. you wouldn't get mad at someone on apex for using slidehopping/superglides/lurch tech/wall bounce/etc (atleast i wouldn't and i hate apex since it's all titanfall movement but watered down)

[final olive]

I mean I mind movement less than the weird hitbox disjoints, but drop shotting was never fun even if it has been around for ages. I don't think it is particuarly good in this game either but it also would be better with it removed.

[fair summit]

Relying on a hitbox jank to win fights is the opposite of skill lmao

[final olive]

Lean spam mostly sucks because it looks horrible unlike proper movement

[fair summit]

A good player wouldn't have to use hitbox jank to win a 1v1

[rich iris]

and yet the good players do.

[final olive]

and then movement in this game in general is incredibly jerky with no momentum making gunfights super annoying, but again some people seem to love it

Personally, I kind of hate the way movement works in this game because it doesn't feel like the game built around movement and it just feels tacked on at random and in a very poor way

[rich iris]

definite agree. it should be better than it is.

[fair summit]

And many don't. The ones that do prob don't aim as well as that they think they do

[rich iris]

but arguing good players aren't doing it while there's a prestige 9 almost 10 who is using everything available to him is just....

[opal swallow]

Yeaa

[final olive]

I mean applying hitbox jank is a skill, it just isn't a fun skill that I support being in the game the way it is now.

[opal swallow]

Oh, i don't think it's not a skillful thing, but it sucks way harder to fight than facing a guy with a bipoded lmg on bf3

[final olive]

yeah it is a matter of "Skillful" not always being fun

[rich iris]

^

[opal swallow]

Like you're trying to hold a position while your team captures a point and fucking neo shows up

[zenith prairie]

experience doesn't go far to improve your judgement in games like this

[rich iris]

i'm not disagreeing with you, it's definitely in need of adjustment. but saying it's not skillful i do disagree with. because there's a million other people who are using every single bit of tech and can't keep up with my boomer gameplay, there is skill in the application of it and it isn't the be all end all of fights

[opal swallow]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for it, but i feel a few things that could actually help make the game more balanced overall(as in less 0 to 50m engagements majoritarily fought with super close range guns, with an emphasis on playing aggressive and twitchy) would be:

• getting all of the long guns(the heavier longer range focused ARs, LSWs, LMGs, DMRs,) and having their damage actually increase a small bit with range before they start to drop from range again(kinda like bf1's sniper sweetspot, but the sweetspot is anything from 50 meters to where their damage starts to drop down again), some weapons that feel currently underpowered(IE most DMRs going up to a potential 2 tap kill at mid range) getting more damage, while others losing close range damage and keeping their max damage, and others still being a bit of both

• reduce aim punch or keep it as is, but make most guns that got their close range damage reduced more controlable recoil to incentivise their use at slightly longer ranges, and give them an edge over the prevalence of current close range guns(the lower close range damage ensuring this edge is only there at less up close engagements, but still)

• add a small amount of acceleration and inertia, not as much as to feel like ice skating or whatever, but enough that spamming adad while dropshotting isn't as feasible anymore

• slow down lean times a bit, particularly if many lean adjustments are done in close succession

• clamp down the maximum speed if it ever passes the standard 100%, maybe by having diminishing returns, but in general make the running speed more cohesive with the rest of the game (slower running speeds in general seem fine as is, but the faster ones are a tad excessive imo)

[fair summit]

Using macros to lean spam or hitting z isn't a skill lmao

[rich iris]

and a lot of the guys using macros for lean are using a macro because they suck mechanically

[humble nest]

pressing 2 buttons too hard
goes back to playing doom eternal ultra nightmare with weapon binds on numbers still >.>

[opal swallow]

Ultrakill moment

[tardy steppe]

aint this the truth

lean spamming is giving me ptsd from the old r6s days

[fast thistle]

Oh i'm aware that people start coping when they come across factual statements they dont agree with, we are still on the internet after all.

When the anti-aimpunch troll troupe's attempted counterarguments fail all they have left is tone policing and intellectual dishonesty, as you can see.

These so called "hardcore mechanics" contribute to battlebit being relatively unique. But the simplistic visual style leads to the community having an identity crisis, they expected the game to fill their roblox looking ass clown shoes.

Even if devs come out with a "milsim" mode, this loud minority will keep advocating for the removal of mechanics that make the game unique. From their perspective, what we are playing right now is the "milsim" mode.
So instead of having endless discussions about which mechanics to remove next, devs should just make an easy mode for these people.

[fast thistle]

Exactly.
As you can tell, he doesnt consider effective communication, listening and working as a team a skill.

To the arcade gamer there is only 360 noscope flickshots. Flickshots which they miss, leading to them dying, raging and going on here to complain and cope about "unfun mechanics" like aimpunch, leaning, proning, long weapon swap timers.
Or they zoom around chasing a high k/d which they will never acheieve bevause they refuse to adapt their playstyle to the game they are playing, leading to complaints like accusing the other team thats actively playing, and defending, objective of being "campers".

You know how the story goes, the take you responded to says it all.

[opal swallow]

I'm gonna go insane dude

[rich iris]

kafka out here just deciding how the people he disagrees with play the game.

[opal swallow]

I just want this game to be less of a ultrafast twitch shooter, I don't need to pick a side between "make it squad" and "make it quake"

Though... squake... squad remade... in quake...

I just had a horrible, horrible idea...

[rich iris]

do it

[opal swallow]

I'm too busy coding boring stuff for a living and coding for Space Station 13 on my spare time, sorry

[rich iris]

rip

[fast thistle]

Rhethorical, logical and communicative skill issues... are still skill issues.

[rich iris]

those skill issues are okay to have. mechanical skill issues aren't allowed to exist or people get angry that they can't compete. (i'm exaggerating but that's literally what you sound like.)

[opal swallow]

Me when I make 6 units of ricin in the players blood stream lethal and make the botany department able to produce the plant that makes ricin, so they can cause organ failure in the entire space station
(It was a breaking bad reference, but now it's integral for botanist traitors)

[fast thistle]

Nobody is asking for the game to be squad, i just speak for preserving the mechanics we have now.

Right now you seem to have caught the ire of Walk by daring to come into (what he believes to be) his domain and call out his bad takes.... You dont need to pick a side, your opponents does that for you.

[rich iris]

i mean, colossus and i don't necessarily agree on what needs to be nerfed/adjusted. doesn't mean he's wrong he just wants a different game than i do. (and i really don't want to play the roblox version of the new call of duty games where the meta is sitting in buildings with claymores)

i think you just made everyone dislike your holier than thou attitude and now most people don't want to entertain your position

because you come across as a jackass

[opal swallow]

Ok, I kinda have to agree, but mostly because of the comments on "milsim players dictating how the game should work"... on a feedback thread.. on a initially milsim game
Besides that tho, I don't think you are doing all that much different than em, for real I don't mean this in a bad way but you also radiate a bad vibe along with a lot of your takes, even the ones I agree with

Lokisam said it better than I could

I don't think you are the sole person doing this, not by far, but you are also doing this

[placid dagger]

adding that his position was nothing new to this thread to begin with his whole attitude just lead to him being clowned on

[opal swallow]

Pal, I'm sorry but I gotta say I've also seen this from you

[rich iris]

i tend to agree with a lot of walks takes but he also do kinda got that attitude

[placid dagger]

Just checked his message aand it's funny that kafka actually managed to turn the entire thread against him because he couldn't stop himself from insulting other people's intelligence

[opal swallow]

This gets way too heated and I'm gonna go play outside with my dogs

Yall be kind to each other please

[placid dagger]

There were people who tried to hear him out at first only to be met with veiled insults and shitty attitude from him. When those guys called him out on his shit he would call them a part of the "clown react brigade"

[placid dagger]

Oh that's not a problem for me, for trap however...

[fast thistle]

The "holier than thou attitude" is a label given to me on a silver platter, a testament to their cope and failure to argue against my objectively correct takes. They gave it to me, i didnt take it.

If i come across as a jackass or not is about as relevant as any of the other trolling or desperate adhoms they've thrown about instead of trying to craft a compelling counterargument.

[fast thistle]

Based diplomatic neutral stance tbf.

[turbid bane]

talk about aim punch instead of moaning about vector mains and milsimmers

[fast thistle]

If only they could.

[turbid bane]

you're only digging your hole further by deflecting, let's all move on

[zenith prairie]

He’s already reached the center and come out the other side. All he can do now is oscillate around the core.

[fast thistle]

As i said, they are free to prove me wrong anytime by apologizing and engaging with intellectual honesty from now on.

Im still curious to know how they feel about the devs implementing +60% of the contents of the suggestion i initially posted here.

[fast thistle]

Remember i did hear you out?
It was off topic nonsense, and you havent managed to snap out of it since. #1133360306278645810 message

[placid dagger]

Poor little kafkatrap. Even though insulting reading comprehension is one of your favourites looks like you suffer from it as well. See I was not talking about myself there, I had people like schlammjumper in mind. That guy was mad at me for trolling you and tried to hear you out, only to be met with insults from you. Causing you to toss him into your "clown react troupe".

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message

The irony

[placid dagger]

Man at this point I think you need therapy or something. It's honestly quite the spectacle seeing you be so unaware of yourself.

[pastel shore]

Narcissist mantra:

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.

[fast thistle]

How is your inability to stay on topic and argue your case on me?
Ive given you plenty to work with. To make it even easier for you, i could go back and post a link to the comments you've failed to address in a competent manner?

Because just like before, youre still stuck in the very ironic tone policing/adhom defence npc dialogue tree options.

[placid dagger]

[fast thistle]

See?

[fast thistle]

The reason im landing critical hits is because youre weak to logic damage.

[grim carbon]

it's really too bad that the moderators are too busy circlejerking in VC 24/7 to prevent narcissistic retards from derailing threads

[fast thistle]

How is your inability to stay on topic and argue your case on me?
Ive given you plenty to work with. To make it even easier for you, i could go back and post a link to the comments you've failed to address in a competent manner?

lmao, I'm literally asking you if you want help to stay on topic.
If you think im narcissistic maybe you shouldnt keep feeding me easy W's by proving me right every single time?

[runic ridge]

wow this is still going

[rich iris]

He can’t help himself.

[pastel shore]

Still think mods should just remake this thread so we can collect actual feedback on current state of flinch.

[rich iris]

Mostly tolerable, wish it didn’t exist. /thread

[pastel shore]

For me, I think keeping as is, except capping it at the dmg value for 27 would be the best compromise possible. That's just enough to slightly kick med/long range scopes at range, but not impact other fights.

Removing entirely would be fine too but I don't think that's what oki wants.

[runic ridge]

I dont think remaking would help because it will once again derail from the original topic. If there is a place to ask for suppression I don't think this is that place.

[pastel shore]

I think it will. If anything, it'll just help the mods collect feedback again because rn whatever tool they are using to collect the feedback will have a lot of stuff from the old patch

[rich iris]

I don’t think they’re using anything. I think someone is manually reading these

[runic ridge]

Thats also correct. Though in my opinion this thread mostly succeeded in doing its job already.

[rich iris]

Which if so, they deserve a raise

[pastel shore]

Oh god I really really hope they are using some bots/tools and not just reading these manually

[tawdry edge]

https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1120273018543951912

[pastel shore]

Sure. But making a new thread could also result in the conclusion being "no further changes needed", but it'll just be much easier and better. And hopefully have a larger chance of staying on topic

[runic ridge]

Thats cool but you should show that to the people advocating for suppression as its not something I want to discuss or advocate for.

[pastel shore]

just hop in the thread and tell them what an awful idea is

negative feedback is still useful feedback

I've argued w/ a few of them and even had a couplechange their minds on suppression

[runic ridge]

Yeah I might aswell say my piece there and move on I guess

you're right

negative opinion is still opinion

[scarlet latch]

Flinch should slow u down after u been shot not be sprinting as fast

[fast thistle]

Delete everything, restructure the feedback channel to separate suggestions from the discussions, otherwise quality suggestions will keep on being buried by clown reacts and trolling.

[slate parrot]

maybe your suggestions just aren't quality

[fast thistle]

If you actually controlled that emotionally charged gut reaction and read what i posted, you'd realize i didnt say "my quality suggestions", i said "quality suggestions".

Either way, you can tell by the reacts: #1133360306278645810 message that the trolls in this chat doesnt want the devs to read community suggestions and the game to change in either direction.
No fucking way is anyone in the dev team subjecting themselves to scrolling through hundreds of pages with the same 5 people spamming their cope and burying actual suggestions.

[slate parrot]

yes that's why I'm scrolling through hundreds of pages of feedback to see that outside of this feedback thread people didn't like aimpunch, and in here the vouches for adjusting were a minority. Decreasing aimpunch was a compromise that I the troll had to negotiate because I thought the vocal minority in here represented the community just wanting aimpunch toned down

I'm your "dev" reading community suggestions, so I'mma tell you right now, this whole "finally devs listend to me now they should do the other half I suggested" does not do you favors. I can tell you I'm reading these objectively and bringing it up with the rest of the feedback guys but again, you're not the majority here

[rich iris]

man is doing the lord's work reading all our inane bullshit, i for one salute you.

[normal sluice]

How many hours do you have

[slate parrot]

320

A lot of shooting range to test things

And way more time reading through 12 feedback threads so I can build a case to buff support

[normal sluice]

Same

[tepid jasper]

You have to build a case for that?

First step is bipod buff

Second step is suppression

Third is armor buff

[slate parrot]

more so that Oki has gone awol while doing community servers

And I need to build a not boring and universally agreed set of buffs

for example bipod buff has easy to implement stuff

reworking armor is controversial so much harder

suppresssion asw

[tepid jasper]

I think supports could definitely do with a movement speed buff

Literal snails in everything compared to everyone else

[slate parrot]

yea helmets and backpacks are the target and p well received

[tepid jasper]

Obviously more options for guns which will come with time

[slate parrot]

you can't really buff the body armors any further tho

There's improving drum mags and adding shortmags for the lmgs as a short term, but idk if oki will just drop new guns first

[royal sable]

I'll still try on my own community server 😂 testing it live is better than throwing theory around

[normal sluice]

Honestly Larry knows what's up. Change the unlock rate of armor and make them a bit more diversified

[slate parrot]

bruh momento

[tepid jasper]

My issue with exo is that for the person fighting it, in my experience, it doesn't effect the ttk much, but as the person wearing it, you feel like you get killed just as fast

[placid dagger]

💀

[normal sluice]

Lmfao put it in off topic

[tepid jasper]

And you can't regen armor either

[placid dagger]

let the man post

[slate parrot]

??? since when do links to messages not work?

[placid dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-shrug-idk-i-dont-know-who-knows-gif-17348455

[slate parrot]

Go to "support-feedback" for this we're alr clogging the thread

[fresh jacinth]

I have been been looking at this feed for a while now and I honestly think I stand on the side of no aim punch. As I understand it, BB is a tactics optional shooter to where you can dominate with the proper tactic, but you can also just have fun running it down with the boys. I find(as someone who has never touched a vector) that aim punch is quite punishing for even thinking of peeking an angle, and with as many angles as there are in BB it just feels pointless. But I also do understand the argument for aim punch, punish the people who stupidly position themselves. My main counterargument to this is that those people will be shot anyway, then have to heal themselves, rendering them more immobile than they were if they were aim punched. I also see the argument for keeping support as an area controlling beast, which I theorize can be fixed with a bipod buff. This is at least the opinion I have gleaned from reading this thread any my casual gameplay. I know my opinion means nothing here but I just kinda wanted to throw it out here. (P.S. I am aware that it scales by damage which is better but AK 15 and it's high damage peers are still crazy)

Woops that was so long xD

[slate parrot]

this is about how I, Oki and a few others feel about current state of the game

He's described it as "no annoying game mechanics" but same concept

"tactics optional" describes the same idea

[tepid jasper]

I don't experience aim punch at all I forget it exists

[rich iris]

it's way better than it was but still impacts fights from time to time, very annoying when it happens

[tepid jasper]

Not for me

[rich iris]

lucky you. i've had it happen once or twice up close and three or four more times taking a 60-70m engagement with the fal

[tepid jasper]

Like if I was new to the game I could probably play for 5 hours and ask "there's aimpunch?"

[slate parrot]

tbh it's fine now, before it was hot garbage but now it's low priority

so won't be touched anytime soon

[rich iris]

yeah, it's not perfect imo but way way way better than it was

[normal sluice]

Same, I never notice it anymore but it may be because I use long barrel SG550 and can't see with the flash anyway

[slate parrot]

not before stuff like map/gamemodes, progression/prestige and stats resetting

[rich iris]

yeah i'm actually done playing the game until they update prestige

[slate parrot]

3 week vacation for now, bc 2 weeks to finish comm servers and a week to tell oki and him to implement change

use that info as you will

[normal sluice]

Yeah there's gotta be some reward or at the very least unlock tokens for prestige to be anything worthwhile

[tepid jasper]

Do you think you could get oki to add an exit to desktop option while in a match and a checkbox to never show the new patchnotes more than once

[slate parrot]

I think there's a few UI things on the list

[rich iris]

nice. idk what i'm gonna do with that much time. probably end up playing battlebit so i don't get too rusty

[slate parrot]

IDK about patchnotes but there's stuff on there

[normal sluice]

alt+f4

[normal sluice]

Play baldurs gate

[tepid jasper]

It's really annoying every time opening the game or leaving a match having the update thing pop up

[rich iris]

don't have it. prolly gonna emulate some old games. may spend my time on battlebit in the range just working on recoil control

i wanna be able to mag dump the fal at 70m+

[fresh jacinth]

I figured, I just kinda wanted to give my ten cents as a very casual player

[slate parrot]

Yeah it's not that it won't be revisited but unless the thread explodes like it originally did I'm going to focus more on things like attachments and support

[rich iris]

looking forward to the support update. my friend likes it (when he's not getting dc'd anyway) but feels like he has to play assault

[fresh jacinth]

The attachments definitely need a balance 😂. It is basically just the same 3-4 attachments that are the standard for every gun.

[rich iris]

ye that too

[slate parrot]

Eventually I'll have to do a recon/sniper deep dive

But I am putting that off

[tepid jasper]

This is an offtopic suggestion but I think it would be cool if suppressors also removed the bullet tracer

[turbid bane]

i'd like it too but it'd probably be too OP

[tepid jasper]

It would be a buff to suppressors which are very rarely used

[slate parrot]

Ignoring recon because it's an odd class, I believe the current balance roster is medic, engi, assault, support in that order

So assault may get something new

To be seen

[rich iris]

assault/engi still need small buffs imo and support needs a rework

[turbid bane]

i do think suppressors provide some impact at the most chaotic moments in terms of not instantly having a million bullets coming your way after shooting a single bullet

[slate parrot]

Engi is on a thin line of good as medic and being ok

[rich iris]

yeah, small buff to something to get it up to medic tier then leave it imo

[tepid jasper]

I think the bullets give your position away more than sounds

[slate parrot]

Because tandems and heat are insane, while repair tool and frag rpg are mid

[rich iris]

tbh i think more bandages for the other classes would be a good change

but idk

am just washed up nerd

[turbid bane]

that's why i'm saying it comes in at scenes of chaos where bullets are flying everywhere

[slate parrot]

Suggested but not well received

Tbf the pitch was small ammo kit as primary gadget but the general idea of classes having more bandages wasnt well received

Because "why have classes when every class can just do what medic and support do" ignoring C4 treading on engis role

[rich iris]

idk, i think it would help with solo players feeling forced into medic but people can do w/e. medic's losing c4 for a breaching charge would prolly help as well to bring engi up

[slate parrot]

That breaching charge thing is not happening

C4 is here to stay

[rich iris]

lol

[slate parrot]

This isn't a joke it's a statement

[rich iris]

oh i know

still funny

[normal sluice]

Frag rpgs are useless and scenarios where you would use frag rpgs are covered 90% of the time by frag nades or HEAT.
Should just remove them. Feels like people want it buffed just because it's an option and don't realize the current rpgs are fine for anti personnel without feeling too cheap

[tepid jasper]

Which means heats should be nerfed against infantry

[royal sable]

Eh.. Heat is fine as is.

Frag RPG is just rubbish.

Heat is middle ground and is fine. Tandem is vehicle skewed and is fine as is. Frag is infantry skewed but woefully underpowered against both infantry and vehicles.

[tepid jasper]

Even if you buff the impact against infantry, you still are completely useless against vehicles while heats are great with both vehicles and infantry

[royal sable]

Heat isn't as great as tandem for vehicles, likewise, buff frag so heat isn't as great as frag against infantry

If frag was heat but double blast radius and quarter wall damage and vehicle damage.

[tepid jasper]

But you still have to lose all usefulness against vehicles, while heat would remain still good enough to be usable and effective against infantry

Leaving fragmentation too niche

[royal sable]

That's the whole fucking point

[tepid jasper]

Tandem I think also has that issue

[royal sable]

Look at tandem

No fucking shit bozo, specialist VS generalist.

[tepid jasper]

It's the point to give up all usefulness against vehicles to be a bit more effective against infantry, when heat is already plenty?

[royal sable]

And yet people still run tandem

To be plenty useful against vehicles and give up usefulness against infantry

[tepid jasper]

If you want people to use frag you better give that shit a 30m one shot radius otherwise it will still be utterly useless

Well we are done here, nobody can have a respectful and nuanced conversation

[royal sable]

Yeah I wouldn't call 30m one shot frag RPG nuanced.

[pastel shore]

(buff scorpion movespeed to 1.10, trust me on this)

And add action queuing, that one actually important

[royal sable]

Mfw scorpion feels more of a smg than every other smg. Properly balanced for cqc advantage and disadvantaged any further.

But the lack of customisation makes it plain as balls to play, and the recoil is a wee bit high.

[fast thistle]

Same

[modern coral]

I still want flinch gone in its entirety.

[rotund solar]

i hope there's something they can do to limit people who troll and destroy cover. had sandbags overlooking an objective. instead of taking the stairs (we were on the 3rd floor) or using the ladder he c4'd half of my cover. jumped out the whole and died and did this 3 times back to back then got mad and c4'd the rest of it.

[slate parrot]

NGL this goes both ways

so no go

[rotund solar]

true

[zenith prairie]

That is griefing and people do get banned for it sometimes

[scarlet latch]

I want flinch to be more prevalent it’s stupid that u can run away like it’s nothin then immediately shoot the one shooting u I abuse it a lot to

[pastel shore]

Why would having flinch change that? If you run away flinch doesn't affect you at all, flinch is specifically when you are trading fire

[scarlet latch]

U shouldn’t be able to it should slow u down a bit

[solid thistle]

whats the fun in that

[scarlet latch]

I personally think it’s a lot of if it was or just redo the headshots to caliber of gun

[rich iris]

You think it’s fun to have a random system decide whether you win or lose a gunfight? Let’s just remove guns and you just flip coins every time you want to fight someone.

[solid thistle]

based

[scarlet latch]

Na I’d like a headshot to actually be a headshot means u gota use more tactics instead of a brain dead style play

[pastel shore]

wat

[wintry bear]

I do support the removal of flinch entirely or just make it miniscule, theres already many gameplay aspects to worry about in this game multiply that by the amount of players and then the fact that good players are shape shifting kangaroo hopping human boxes mid gunfight

[scarlet latch]

I’m weird I like games wit some realism to them like vehicles not takin any fall damage

[rich iris]

head shots are head shots. they do more damage. why do you need to send someones aim to the moon? like... you do understand the flank playstyle that gets vocally and constantly shit on for existing is INCENTIVIZED by the existence of heavy flinch?

why would i EVER want to take a fight with someone that can fight back if flinch makes it a 50/50 regardless of who shoots first/has better aim?

[scarlet latch]

I’ve gotten headshots wit smgs it shouldn’t take that many especially wit helmet on should be knocked to ground . Just shows who is actually good at shooters . At this moment I can’t tell u how many times somebody got the drop on me an I sprinted an jumped around an killed them

[rich iris]

ah, you like dying with 0 counterplay got it.

you have fun with that

[scarlet latch]

Idk my kd always been good even on games like that . Just means u gotta use ur Brain

[rich iris]

there's a difference between "use your brain" and "be 10000% aware of everything around you at all times" and one of those is INFINITELY more fun than the other

especially when you're playing 127v127

[scarlet latch]

Yep

[rich iris]

just wait for the casual/milsim mode split to come out and you can go away from the people who are having fun rn

[scarlet latch]

Lmao ok bud sorry for hiting a sore spot

[rich iris]

mate, we had heavier flinch, it wasn't fun then. it's not going to be fun to bring it back. sorry you can't accept people don't like having skill removed from the equation

[scarlet latch]

I mean I actually liked when there was heaver flinch all the ones that cried about it just need to get better and be more aware . Do u know how many times I’ve been prone in those concrete things an got 12 + wit it

[rich iris]

"just be more aware" mate what? how are you gonna use an example of people standing next to you not shooting you as your explanation for flinch needing to come back? flinch would've done nothing in that situation

you sound like the people crying about vector after they get shot in the back like they weren't dead to the entire roster of weapons at that point

same shitty argument

[pastel shore]

lol I guarentee you trying to pull the skill issue card with this topic is not going to go your way

[scarlet latch]

Lol I just don’t see the problem I enjoy havin to use my head

[pastel shore]

flinch dramatically reduces skill gap, the entire purpose of the mechanic is to remove as much skill out of shooting as possible

[rich iris]

^

using your head has nothing to do with flinch

that's the part you aren't understanding

[pastel shore]

you still have to use your head now. The best way to play doesn't change, fights are just more skillful and fair on top of that

[scarlet latch]

Shooting involves skill tho 🤣🤣

Na all it is just run an gun fastest is always best

[rich iris]

and your crosshair essentially randomly being pushed in a random direction by a random amount doesn't increase the skill requirement of the game

[pastel shore]

I still use cover just as much as I did when flinch was heavy, but instead of face to face fights having too much RNG now better aim has more of an impact there, too.

If you use less cover now than when flinch was in the game you are making a tactical error.

[scarlet latch]

All u need to do is drop shot u win 80 % of the time

[pastel shore]

go play in some of the scrims and see how far dropshotting gets you

[scarlet latch]

Like I said it works 80% of time

[rich iris]

yeah, until the people you're doing it to are smart enough to go "oh this guy only knows how to drop shot" and then it works 0% of the time

[scarlet latch]

Very few people I’ve seen actually do there always running an lean spam in

[pastel shore]

and that's why I am better than all of them

[scarlet latch]

I’ve learned how to counter both it not hard if I can do it

[pastel shore]

drop shooting and lean spamming and stuff was also even better before when flinch was exaggerated. It's weaker now than it was back then because aim matters more

[rich iris]

lean spam isn't even a problem, center mass doesn't move very far

[pastel shore]

I'm not really sure what your angle is, you are arguing for flinch while using arguments that counter your position

[scarlet latch]

I just feel dirty is all when ever someone gets the drop on me an I’m able to clap them

[rich iris]

then they should suck less

[scarlet latch]

That or rpg

[rich iris]

rpg and recon are the only things that consistently cause me problems in this game, and i'm barely above average

[scarlet latch]

Lbs for the most part for me just cause I shoot them

[rich iris]

the ttk in this game is so low if someone shoots you in the back and you turn and kill them, that's not a game problem, that's a them problem

[pastel shore]

There's no skill based matchmaking, servers are mixed. You have FPS gods mixed in with people who have literally never touched a game before in their lives. You are going to turn on players occasionally because they are bad.

Good players won't give you a chance, they'll kill you before you can react. But less flinch is important when you come into players face to face, then aim matters, as well as movement, positioning, etc. With flinch none of it matters, first shot has an overwhelming advantage but otherwise it's a coin flip, instead.

[tepid jasper]

Seems like you took it personally that people have different preferences in games

[rich iris]

yeah. if i wanted to gamble i'd go to a casino, or boot up any of the games with lootboxes.

seems like you took it personally that i stated factually that we had heavier flinch already and it was bad

[tepid jasper]

I'm just saying people have different preferences and different opinions and none is more correct than the other

Everyone has seem to forgotten that

This is all subjective

[rich iris]

yeah, factually the mechanic was in the game. factually it removes skill from the game

[tepid jasper]

If you don't like roller coasters, does that mean everyone must not like them and they should be removed

[tepid jasper]

And it's totally fair that some will prefer that

[rich iris]

and yet when the people who prefer that use arguments that actually help prove why it shouldn't be in the game, i have to wonder WHY they want the mechanic?

[tepid jasper]

I mean it makes the game harder, it makes fights longer

[rich iris]

??? no it doesn't?

harder is debatable. longer is absolutely not debatable

[tepid jasper]

It encourages finding cover quicker as shooting back isn't viable

[tepid jasper]

You're telling me that missing half your shots instead of everyone shooting laser beams doesn't make fights longer?

[turbid bane]

the devs already made the decision and have reduced aim punch there's no point whining about it now

[rich iris]

the ttk is so fast you don't have a choice

you return fire or die and the flinch just makes it rng who dies

[turbid bane]

only 1 side of the gunfight misses the shots, the one who doesn't get aim punched kills as fast as usual

so no, it doesn't affect the duration of gunfights

[tepid jasper]

So that means in some cases it doesn't affect duration

When both sides are affected it does

[turbid bane]

no one gives a shit about your devil's advocate bullshit

aimpunch is fine as it is now

[tepid jasper]

I can see why people would prefer a flanking or ambushing playstyle which flinch undoubtedly promotes

[turbid bane]

oh yeah no one flanks anymore after aim punch got reduced

that's just all gone now

[tepid jasper]

Never said that

That's your own interpretation

[turbid bane]

the problem is you don't have a point

[tepid jasper]

I'm not trying to have a point

[turbid bane]

cool, so why are you waffling here then

idk why this thread needs any activity when all is already said and done

[tepid jasper]

I've simply noticed that it seems that the people with the minority opinions have been getting treated with ad hominem in some cases (not this case, just in general) and I've seen people saying stuff that implies nobody likes milsim games and that they are objectively bad

And that everyone who plays them is 50 years old

I'm all for fair debate but going to personal attacks over opinions is just not good

[turbid bane]

people who rally for this game to turn into the most milsimmy gun jam, stamina, hunger piss shit bars simulator are obnoxious as hell, so are the adhd zoomers who get too heated attacking said milsimmers

[tepid jasper]

Agreed

[rich iris]

i think the best case for everyone, is to wait for the mode split

[tepid jasper]

I'm very happy with the middle ground the game has leaning towards the arcade side

It reminds me a lot of insurgency sandstorm but battlefield

[rich iris]

i think this mode as is, is damn near perfect, and if you want more milsim mechanics, you can wait, for the milsim mode

and community servers that will allow further customization

instead of pushing the general gameplay to cater towards the milsim gamers

[tepid jasper]

I have plenty of tac shooters so personally I don't need this to be another one

[turbid bane]

the problem is people (jakey for example) don't listen or they purposefully ignore that this mode is coming and they just want the base game to get completely redone out of some weird spite or something

[tepid jasper]

127v127 is by nature too chaotic for actual full team strategy and tactics and stuff

It's hard to coordinate that in 50v50

I think community servers will help this game thrive

Like if they added suppression, but the server owner can adjust the intensity or even fully disable it, some with flinch

[rich iris]

i think 127 would completely fall apart if it was any slower gameplay-wise. that said, comm servers and the mode split will do wonders

[tepid jasper]

Same with things like vault speed, healing speed

How run speed scales

With armor and guns

Imagine if you could change jump height or fall damage heights so that you could have people jumping on top of buildings if you want

If they add that level of customization, these feedback and suggestion threads will be completed unnecessary as there will already be a server to cover that

[rich iris]

sv_enable_bhop

🙂

[scarlet latch]

Na what obnoxious is the running continuesly

[rich iris]

anyone know when we're getting an rpg feedback thread?

[keen ocean]

What do you want to say there?

[royal sable]

Probably "frag bad"

[serene cloak]

probably best to just use the engineer thread, since they're exclusive to them

[frigid dragon]

i could ask

[crimson minnow]

Flinch needed to go but now I've ran into an issue where I do not get enough feedback when I'm hit i.e. I can't tell I'm getting hit

Sometimes it's obvious such as when a sniper hits you but otherwise it feels like you're being hit with a SMG at 100 meters but it's actually a M110 and you're about to die on the next hit without realizing

[pastel shore]

probably good feedback for the UI or gunplay thread

[fast thistle]

The same people who frequent this thread (you know who) will advocate for the complete removal of all explosives because "AOE damage is an unfair and unfun mechanic"

[royal sable]

I like aoe but some aoe in bbr is scuffed.

Like frag RPG being trash, frag nades hitting through walls and having some whack aoe radius, claymores doing spherical instead of conical aoe.

Removing all aoe is one hella way to make things boring

[rich iris]

C4 aoe is also really weird. Someone standing directly on top of c4 not dying but the guy a few feet away does.

[signal tangle]

contrary to popular believe, claymores' do blow up in all directions, is just the prioritized direction is forward. for what htey are I think its fine since other wise they would be area denial up 120 meters cone covering 35 degreesto either side.

[placid dagger]

But wouldn't they be command detonated then?

[signal tangle]

the wire trips is a thing(no lasers like cod)

but manual det is also a thing

[placid dagger]

you also can use infrared, seismic, acoustic and magnetic sensors just checked

claymores aren't complex explosives so 🤷‍♂️

[signal tangle]

also fair. hard to put those in game though

[placid dagger]

Yeah

aiming for/balancing around 1:1 realism just ends up making unfun games

[signal tangle]

almost like every weapon and vehicle is designed to kill quickly and efficiently without being fair to the enemy in anyway

[placid dagger]

yeah almost like war irl is not a fun experience

[royal sable]

my man trying to talk about irl claymores vs typical game claymores 🗿 brother i've used claymores irl. they're mainly ~90 deg cone forwards, the backblast is ~20m, and it's like 2-300m denial

and it's typically manual detonated with a clicker, no one's gonna fucking trip wire that shit

trip flares yes, cuz the device is close to the tripper, but claymores with their range? 😂

[signal tangle]

I'm just repeating what the marines did and said about claymores in '09-'10 in afghan bud. if that's changed in the past decade I don't know. also, you literally agreed with everything I said while saying you disagreed.

[royal sable]

my man confusing game and reality

[signal tangle]

you... literally said what I said but worded differently, the hell you on about?

[royal sable]

contrary to popular believe, claymores' do blow up in all directions,
When I'm talking about in-game claymores and you started going "ackhtually irl claymore.."

[rich iris]

The claymores in game do actually have a small backblast

Not 20m lethal but I’ve definitely taken damage from behind one

[royal sable]

what you think is a backblast is the claymores just exploding 360 like an AP mine

[rich iris]

Oh are they spherical?

[royal sable]

the damage in front and behind is the same, it's literally a spherical explosion

yeah

that's why it's fucked up

[rich iris]

I wonder if that’s intentional because you might able to run past them with enough move speed

If it was conical

[royal sable]

it's basically an AP mine with a different trigger zone

[rich iris]

Not that I’d complain about that btw. Fuck claymores lol

[royal sable]

I swear trying take out claymores in buildings is such a chore because of the aoe hit

[rich iris]

Yeah that explains the wonkiness with them

I’ve taken to c4 ing/grenading them when safe to do so

[royal sable]

yeah but it also means blowing up stairs you're trying to climb up

[rich iris]

Depends on your c4 placement

[royal sable]

so nades are the only way, which... suck

[rich iris]

They have a pretty limited destruction range

[royal sable]

mainly an issue in places like lonovo, those stairwells are a pain to defuse claymores sometimes

[rich iris]

Unless they’re directly attached to the thing you don’t want to blow up

Like I’ve put c4 on walls next to stairs and the stairs survived nbd

[royal sable]

Yeah that's shonky, you need to go away from the stairwell, to the room behind the stairs to put the c4 there

No good way around it

[placid dagger]

tbh stairs can be indestructible

[royal sable]

Sad there's no "hold F to disarm" option 😂

[placid dagger]

trying to get rid of claymores and mines just to destroy the stairs fucking sucks

[royal sable]

Yeah but not all stairs, especially lonovo

[signal tangle]

defuse kit gadget when

[granite geyser]

motion sickness 👍

[modern coral]

The year is 20XX and flinch is still an issue. Sure it got "improved", but I still want it gone completely.

[modern coral]

Respawn just announced that they are removing Aim Punch / Flinch from Apex. I wonder why...

[signal tangle]

because aim assist negated it.

[modern coral]

M+K doesn't have aim assist.

[signal tangle]

nothing to do with Aim flinch, just another system gave certain people an advantage with it. Now aim flinch is gone, and aim assist is lowered massively.

no shit?

people who used controllers had it

and yes, you could use that on PC

[modern coral]

M+K has aim flinch tho

[signal tangle]

again

no shit

its being removed to level the playing field

because aim assist meant only MnK had that disadvantage

now its gone, and controllers only have slight aim assist now.

[modern coral]

I see. You're making the argument that aim flinch affected M+K more than controller?

[signal tangle]

don't try to spin retoric if you don't understand the reasoning.

that is literally the stated reason

like I said, you saw one article online, and ran with it here.

[modern coral]

There seems to be multiple ways to go about balancing that if they really felt aim punch was a key feature of the game.

A needed feature for everyone involved.

[signal tangle]

the thing was that aim punch did jack for controllers.

to the point the majority of players didn't know it was even in the game

so, just remove it toatally and give a toned down aim assist for controllers was the easiest decision.

[modern coral]

And the best.

[signal tangle]

no need to spend several patches trying to find a sweetspot.

[modern coral]

Because in the end, no-one likes RNG in their gunfights.

[signal tangle]

lol

there you go again

[modern coral]

Two birds with one stone.

[signal tangle]

nobody really cared it was in the game

they only cared about that it was negated totally by simply using a controller

[modern coral]

Yet people debated it to hell here when it was first made a thing on launch.

[signal tangle]

because it was massive for everything no matter the damage or weapon

[modern coral]

My homies that play Apex do. They're the ones that brought me the news. Lmao

[signal tangle]

oh good, the minority speaks

they ain't most players

[modern coral]

BattleBit players are the minority

Look at the dead population.

Unpopular change after unpopular change.

[signal tangle]

sure. but you're still here. complaining that it isn't cod or apex.

either way, the system needs to be reworked, and it is.

but its not going anywhere.

[modern coral]

To my credit, I am hardly present any more.

[signal tangle]

sure I guess. but yo ustill come back with news that doesn't apply.

[modern coral]

And I seldom touch those other filth you refer to as shooters.

They're trash for many of the same reasons; yet one of them wisened up and removed that shit mechanic.

[signal tangle]

literally only apex has

every other shooter has it in some way

[modern coral]

RNG? Nah.

[signal tangle]

PvP shooter anyway, alot of Sp only shooters do away with it

[modern coral]

Halo's worst was flinch in H4.

Lots of old school shooters don't have that shit.

[signal tangle]

every halo after that still has it

[modern coral]

And no-one plays those.

Go figure

[signal tangle]

H3 had it

so did h2

ce did not

[modern coral]

And CE reigns king in terms of competitive

[signal tangle]

reach had it too

[modern coral]

and weapon sandbox in general

[signal tangle]

right, totally

[modern coral]

It's true.

best melee too

[signal tangle]

only because everything was basic

[modern coral]

I could glaze over CE's sandbox, but that's a topic for another time.

Halo 2 noobified it.

[signal tangle]

anyway, CE competative died before h2

[modern coral]

Sometimes, basic shit is best. No need to overcomplicate bad systems.

[signal tangle]

becuase it was boring

[modern coral]

Because it had no online until PC

and that shit outlived 2

[signal tangle]

no it didn't lol.

[modern coral]

Custom Edition outlived Vista

And CE still lives on today.

MCC revived a part of it too.

[signal tangle]

right, you because 50 people playing it counts

MCC is MCC not CE

either way, looking into it, CE also had flinch

go figure

it wans't as noticable since no ADS

but it was there, and the knock-out scopes did more than flinch did

[modern coral]

It must have been negligible then, not enough to outdo the bullet magnetism.

[signal tangle]

hence why you seemingly didn't notice it.

[modern coral]

People explicitly preferred descope over flinch.

[signal tangle]

and yet flinch stayed.

through every halo

[modern coral]

If the magnetism counters it, then it might as well functionally not have existed.

[signal tangle]

again, only noticable if you are using a precision weapon

or shooting beyond 20 meters

[modern coral]

Precision weapons since H2 did not even require precision.

[signal tangle]

which most of halo fights sit in

[modern coral]

At max RRR, you can shoot at someone's nuts and get a headshot.

A fault of H2 and onwards.

Thanks to BM + headshot prioritization

[signal tangle]

yeah that's not true. upper chest you would have a case

but that's for most shooters anyway cuase of the neck hitbox

which in fact most of the time counts as the head

[modern coral]

I'll dm you.

You see the video? Yeah? @signal tangle

[signal tangle]

yeah, old news

pre release reach

fixed within a month

[modern coral]

That's MCC.

You're bullshitting.

That's in H3.

That's in 360 Reach.

That's in H2.

And flinch in Halo was not RNG. Just went opposite the direction you were being shot from.

So it was predictable.

[signal tangle]

proof of that? cause I've seen dozens of those tests, and this is the only one where it looks altered.

[modern coral]

Show me your dozens of tests. Lmao

I can test it with you right now.

Hahahahahaha

[signal tangle]

surprisingly

nobody agrees with you

hell, the meta tech for every game is against you lol

[modern coral]

Your argument is literally saying "nuh-uh" when I've brought evidence. Hahahahaha

[signal tangle]

you evidence is contrary to the majority of the community lol

of over 20 years

seems to me you found a shitty video with edited models and sights

oh well

[modern coral]

That's crazy. You're actually in denial.

[signal tangle]

you are talking againt the entire halo community lol

like everyone is talking body shots then headshot

if this was always the case, like you say it is, everybody would be saying "just shoot the body, youll get a headshot"

so either the video is fucked and it was a glitch, it was fake. or you are simply misinformed.

[modern coral]

I have never seen someone so confident and so incorrect; it's honestly astounding.

[signal tangle]

yeah, tell that to the years of posts, guides and so on, saying that you are wrong lol

I also love that you sue MCC as proof that the orgional Halo's had this problem

so once again, you have been proven wrong

[modern coral]

You really never fail to deliver.

[signal tangle]

either way, your statements have been proven false, your own "proof" has gone against you own words

and you shifted goalposts talking about priority of headshots

[modern coral]

Making a statement doesn't make it true, kid.

[signal tangle]

you have no argument, simple as.

[modern coral]

Anyways, I just tested Halo 3's flinch. It's both consistent, but is also a visual effect more than anything. You're still aiming at the same spot.

[signal tangle]

either way, you just spent along time talking about a function not even in battlebit.

[modern coral]

Had a sniper trained on a wee little hologram. Four overshields, blasted to hell, and it was still aiming at the same spot.

You're straight lying.

[signal tangle]

sure buddy

[modern coral]

You lie about aim punch.

And you lie about its significance when paired against BM.

[signal tangle]

you haven't spoken about aimpunch in like 30 minutes

[modern coral]

And when provided empirical evidence, you simply deny it based on what somebody else said.

That's crazy.

And then you accuse.

[signal tangle]

when that "somebody else" is several hundred people

[modern coral]

Show me.

Send me the links.

I am curious to see their proof too.

[signal tangle]

tends to hold more water than "i have low res videos