Flinch / Aim Punch - Feedback

[peak gulch]

I still get rinsed up close by SMGs

[stoic terrace]

yeah that's their best use case so kinda makes sense

[pastel shore]

You mean literally any range from 0m-infinity? Cus that's where the FAL is sitting at RN lmao

[rich iris]

^

i'm using the fal right now the same way i was using the vector, mindlessly sprinting everywhere, beating everyone unless i run out of bullets

[peak gulch]

FAL is 100% overtuned

[pastel shore]

so why does it also aim punch on top of it? Make it make sense? AK15 and SCAR are also strong.

This is literally exactly what I said was going to happen, hasn't even been 6 hours yet and these guns are twice as popular as before.

[peak gulch]

yet the game is still better? It's an iterative thing dude

[stoic terrace]

well with the playstyle most have those guns just work, also progression got easier so...

[pastel shore]

...which I've already said? before you started trying to be cheeky? fucking hello?

[peak gulch]

What I mean is, take a chill pill

[pastel shore]

bro, YOU'RE the one trying to get cheeky, I'm literally just defending the points I've already made, the fuck you mean I needa chill pill? This whole operation was your idea

[peak gulch]

k bud 😉

[pastel shore]

MF when they come out swinging and get shut down; jUsT cHiLl DuDe

[peak gulch]

you do need to chill

[pastel shore]

I am chill, I'm literally just rehashing points I've already made

only person here who needs to chill is you, you came in swinging with no intent other than to stir up shit.

[peak gulch]

I'm just saying maybe winding your neck in before proclaiming a fix is the fucking worst way of doing something before even trying it

[humble nest]

trying things isn't needed when you know you're always right

[placid dagger]

ah a match made in heaven

[slate parrot]

Fal is overtuned but ak15 is fine

Scar needed the popularity

[inland nexus]

Haven't played with the new flinch changes yet, doesn't sound like the annoyance has been removed, at least they have finally done something but I'm kinda disappointed. Can anyone who's been able to play sense the change fill me in on if it helps much?

[pastel shore]

ya, its worth playing.

[inland nexus]

Ight

[zenith prairie]

Honestly, while playing today, I didn’t notice aim punch

Often I die and I’m like “ehh. Aim punch.”
Did not happen today.

[brittle lichen]

please remvoe aim punch

aim punch is still terrible

[rich iris]

it happens very rarely now where i feel like i lose a kill to aim punch, but it still happens. would rather it just not happen ever

[brittle lichen]

^

[tepid jasper]

Or yk, they were second or near second in the meta and only seem better because people think the vector is ruined

this chat is so goofy talking about how they hardly notice the flinch in most situations and it isn't losing them fights then saying how aim punch is the reason that the high DPS guns are dominating in a low ttk game

[turbid bane]

chat is all 1 person, classic

[rich iris]

they were already meta weapons, yes, we're all aware, glad you're finally on the same page G. they're dominating because they were already essentially the same strength as the vector, easier to use at more ranges, and now the vector is not only nerfed, but they inflict more aim punch than other weapons.

if you can't notice when your gun suddenly jumps in a random direction after you got shot and it threw off your aim, good for you

[pastel shore]

right? like, thank you for understanding why I don't think they should aim punch more than other weapons, lmao

[rich iris]

i wish i could be so blind

[tepid jasper]

But from what some people here have said, aim punch is not even close to the deciding factor of fights

I could be wrong but I highly doubt people are choosing their guns based on how much punch they inflict

[rich iris]

the majority of players are gonna pick whatever the youtube/streamer says is good. meta will always be meta

[tepid jasper]

I noticed aim punch before the change and it was annoying

[rich iris]

they don't care why it's good

[tepid jasper]

In my two hours of playing today I forgot it existed

[rich iris]

lucky you. it hasn't happened to me a lot since the update, but it has happened

i'd rather it didn't

[turbid bane]

it just so happens that the meta, fastest ttk, best weapons in the game right now have the most aim punch

[rich iris]

^

[tepid jasper]

Idc what they do with aim punch I was just pointing out of irony some people in this chat have in their opinions

[turbid bane]

chat is not 1 person

[tepid jasper]

Noticed I said some

I can specifically name one example rn and could likely find more

I think aim punch should be based on the weapon class

All ARs have it the same

All pistols have it the same

[rich iris]

i think we just shouldn't have it.

[tepid jasper]

DMRs have more punch than ARs

[turbid bane]

if all ars have the same then famas could end up very nauseating amount of aimpunch

same with if you were to balance the aim punch around the semi auto pistols and then the glock ends up causing earthquakes on your screen

[tepid jasper]

But it has lower DPS than other guns, that's fair balance

[turbid bane]

no it doesn't

[tepid jasper]

Then why does nobody use it

[turbid bane]

25 ammo with 900rpm

takes 300 kills to get good attachments

that make it as good as a vector

[rich iris]

low mag size, higher recoil than other easier to use, more easily available, ar's

[turbid bane]

pretty much it takes too much effort for the average player to bother using it

you pretty much need to use it as your main for the attachment unlock

going off topic tho

[inland nexus]

Just played, I mostly memed around today testing crap out, and the lobbies I were in didn't have the most activity, but the few times I had 1 on 1 encounters at a reasonable range aimpunch didn't piss me off today so that's a plus, still want it fully removed but it's definitely better.

[keen ocean]

Scar is nothing more than less fun to use AK15

It would need some identity

[turbid bane]

the ads speed is pretty big but it alone isn't enough to make it worth using especially with the lower ammo count and the magazine attachments giving way worse penalties

glad that the aimpunch seems to be toned down overall

[fair summit]

i like it for the ADS speed

also it sounds good

[brittle lichen]

aim punch still annoys the shit outta me

[median tree]

The flinching... It could use some work. It isn't always clear where incoming fire is from, and sometimes it'll kick in for seemingly no reason?

However the strength of it is fine. It's more or less the situational reasons for it to happen that gets confusing to me.

[stoic terrace]

maybe like sort of like the directional damage animation minecraft had 'till it fucked that one up through inbuild LAN mp?

[fast thistle]

Brooo cmoooon, if you know how to play the game you can still get those vector kills even with reduced aimpunch. I believe in you bro. 😆

They cryin

[stoic terrace]

so you wobble into the opposite direction of where you got hit, maybe?

stay on topic

[fast thistle]

The shitters are concentrated to this thread. Which is probably why these threads were created, to clear #battlebit-eng of their spam.

There is like 3 people in here who arent crying about the existence of a core gameplay mechanic. Next they will be asking for lean and aiming down sights to be removed from the game because its an "unfair" mechanic since people isnt exposing their whole bodies to their Vector spam.

[stoic terrace]

omfg the vector got nerfed, wtf are you crying about troll? this isn't on topic nor helpfull, i suggest you go outside, touch grass and go to school and leave this goddamn dc be

anyways directional wobble for aimpunch would be cool

[fast thistle]

Hopefully they remove aimpunch completely for low caliber weapons with high rpm.
Doesnt matter if its calculated with damage per bullet or weapon type, the vector is probably gonna get its damage nerfed even more soon anyway.
The other weapons should definitively keep some aimpunch though, as a treat.🤩

Yep. Its funny if you consider its the very same people who use a weapon that kills you in 0,4 seconds who oppose a hypothetical shotgun implementation because they fear getting "oneshotted".

Aimpunch doesnt bother anyone, its been nerfed. Devs can leave it alone now.

[turbid bane]

vector players wanting leaning to be removed from the game? what an upside down world you're living in

[fast thistle]

Sure seems that way, but in reality its just a very loud minority who is salty they sometimes die because they miss their shots after getting th drop on someone, blame aimpunch and are invested enough to spam in here about removing it.

[fast thistle]

Ofc, they dislike "hardcore" mechanics.

You can tell who the vector players are by seeing whos posting clown reacts.

[fast thistle]

The vector doesnt bother me, its the vector players. Their cope is both amusing and satisfying.

[turbid bane]

well thanks for proving that you don't play the game, there is no other kind of player who leans as much in this game as the vector sweat where they spam it to the point of people begging for leanspam to be nerfed, and everyone with a sane stable mind knows that the people wanting lean spam to be nerfed are the very same people who begged for vector nerfs

how can anyone take you seriously after this blunder that reveals your true intentions

[fast thistle]

Sounds like a reasonable reaction when getting hit with a bullet. Maybe you should try playing more carefully? Try putting on a heavier armor instead of the 0 protection high running speed armor you got now.

The extra mags is a nice bonus, you can spray more and hopefully you can hit your targer ❤️

[stoic terrace]

no one, ever

[turbid bane]

as for shotguns i personally don't want them added to the game because they will incentivize camping in the corner of some random house for 20 minutes, essentially becoming an AFK waste of a player slot, further worsening the 'recon players are useless' issue where servers feel way more barren and boring than they should be, even 127 servers, because these players effectively bring nothing into the game. i must point out that have never seen any shotgun fanatic attempt to refute this point and doubt anyone will ever attempt to do so

[stoic terrace]

up until now i used armor heavy and how tf has that to do with my proposal for directional aimpunch you daft, illiterate, pseudo intellectual, try and read before annoying someone with your bs, oh and btw this is the FEEDBACK CHANNEL FOR AIMPUNCH not the "omg you cringe vector people 🤓"-channel, either help with actual feedback or go away

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message

Ofc devs should take rate of fire into consideration if they ever decide to make aimpunch a weapon stat and use it as a way of balancing individual guns.
Because tieing aimpunch to damage per bullet still doesnt address high rpm weapons, as you're saying.

[stoic terrace]

high RPM guns already have low damage which extension means... low to none of that aimpunch

[turbid bane]

fortunately famas does only 25 damage, and there are no high damage weapons that have such a high firerate, on paper having aim punch as a weapon stat would still be better but is completely unnecessary and most would rather it goes away forever

[median tree]

I, personally, enjoy Flinch/AimPunch/Suppression in games. In this game... It's a bit... Finicky? No... The word I'm searching for is "inconsistent".

Some consistency would be nice, perhaps a better "directional" would be nice. That way, yes, you're suppressed under fire, but you can make accurate callouts to your team mates for back up.

LMGs should have a heavier suppression than say, an SMG.

But I also feel it could be toned down a little in this game simply due to the sheer amount of fire power going on in a hot zone any given second...

Perhaps the "effect" doesn't get weaker, but rather the visual indicator isn't as egregious. The visual indicator could also perhaps be more dark in the general direction that the shot came from, and lighter in the opposite direction.

Picture a dark circle on the edges of the screen that gets darker nearer where the round landed, and lighter everywhere else. However, your aim still is staggered.

[fast thistle]

Camping is already a thing, defending a position is already a thing. Disregarding snipers, Vector users sitting in a corner is already a thing, and the only difference between getting sprayed with a 1200 rpm smg and dying in 0,4 seconds and dying to a hypothetical shotgun of with an imagined balancing is how lucky you are.

If the vector user misses their first shots, they can just keep spraying and track your head.
If a shotgun misses their first shot, they die. Because shotguns generally have the slowest rate of fire, most recoil and shortest range out of all weapons in a game.

But yeah, the fine people who are pro-shotguns have already decided their balancing wouldnt threaten the loud vector minority. So if we go with the underpowered balancing we've agreed on they would have nothing to fear but their own lack of trust in themselves and their abilities.

[fast thistle]

no, you run around with 0 armor and a vector trying to farm k/d instead of playing objective, you play this game like it was Quake 3 Arena. I know you and i know how and why you play. Either way, i think we can both agree the game is getting better.
All we need is that aimpunch finetuning for each individual weapon and some shotguns and we good.

[turbid bane]

the problem is that they INCENTIVIZE camping, just like snipers do, but instead of camping inside their spawn plinking away at a random dude 800m away, they're going to be sitting in the most random corner in the map without moving an inch, SMGs incentivize mobility and therefore rushing and active play, this still hasn't been refuted

[stoic terrace]

litteral clown

[stoic terrace]

i use fal rn and play this game cuz it's going to be a "casual mil sim"

[fast thistle]

"camping" (i.e holding a position/defending your position is already incentiviced, since you get headshotted by a sniper if you go outside.

[turbid bane]

you only get headshot by a lack of mobility (which you get by using the superior choice of weapon class, SMGs)

[fast thistle]

The solution: play more carefully, clear your corners.
If you die to a shotgun player its your own fault. They have the odds stacked against them.

But thats not why we are here. You can hit me up in #battlebit-eng for more shotgun debate if you want to. I want to.

[fast thistle]

ah, you're one of them. That explains it.

[turbid bane]

once again, no one attempts to refute these points

[fast thistle]

Bruh, your shoes make a quacking sound when you walk....

[fast thistle]

great, im happy i can find agreement with a vector user. Do you only play medic as well?

[turbid bane]

i am simply imitating the manner in which you speak so highly of the people who want shotguns to be added into this game

personally i think all weapon classes are equal

[stoic terrace]

it's fucking useless to argue with you, you're always in the right no questions asked, anyone who opposes you automaticly proves your point cuz they use what you argue against, it's futile to even try to make reason with your stupid ass, pls just leave the fuckin' server c'mon srsly you'd do us all a great favor you absolute that just screams skill issue most of the time

[fast thistle]

on paper having aim punch as a weapon stat would still be better
Based

but is completely unnecessary and most would rather it goes away forever
Argumentum ad populum. "most" don't understand what constitutes a good game, "most" just zoom around in light armor and chase k/d, and they want chasing that k/d to be less punishing. Thats why you guys dont clear your corners in games, and thats why you have an issue with shotguns and mechanics like aimpunch (and leaning... because you dont use it to clear your corners).

[fast thistle]

Yes, they are very fine people. Logical. Their axioms are grounded.

[turbid bane]

however, the idea of giving LMGs higher aimpunch amounts or suppression could disrupt this balance in weapon class enjoyability, as a random support player blindly spraying and praying away ruining your ability to accurately fire at a player does not provide any semblance of fun into the game

[fast thistle]

Thats the goal. The different weapons being equal but with their own positives and negatives.

[fast thistle]

i usually try to avoid using IRL arguments for balancing in games. But thats literally what LMGs do best, they suppress. Aimpunch is only a "problem" for the target if they get hit.
And its not like support is a popular class anyway, they could do with some more guns and some other buffs.

[fast thistle]

Eeeh thats because my arguments are superior to yours?
What, did you think you were going to win a debate by spamming clown reacts?

[turbid bane]

appealing to popularity isn't a problem and not something worth pointing out in what is a ground for discussing and trying to find ways to balance a videogame, hostility towards the average player isn't going to do any good for the playerbase's health

[stoic terrace]

argumentum ad hominem, argueing against a person or their traits, there you go

[stoic terrace]

nope, they're not, you just have in mind you're the greatest person on this dc and thus you can't be false

srsly it is fucking useless to talk to you unless someone wants to clown on your ass harder then the vectoids showed you your gigantic skill issue

[fast thistle]

The average player? They aint here, they aren't in a subthread of the feedback forum on a games discord. Only the people really invested in the game are here.
Im invested because i want the game to be better. That other clown is in here because they want entire mechanics removed from the game to accomodate their playstyle instead of adapting and overcoming.

[stoic terrace]

strawman arguement, i don't want it removed, never stated, the opposite ackshualllie

[turbid bane]

you can avoid sniper bullets by air strafing around, which is something mil-simmers want to remove from the game, you can not however dodge LMG fire especially in 127 lobbies where there can be multiple support players set up in a safe position covering a wide sightline which essentially becomes a 100% deathzone

[fast thistle]

The way you write explains so much on why your rhetoric is failing you.
"srsly bro hu da fakk do u tink u r????"

I get it, you're really really frustrated because you can't express your thoughts and contribute to this conversation in a meaningful way. That's why you spam clown reacts.

"ackshualllie"

[zenith prairie]

That’s a major reason why the vector was meta

[turbid bane]

for game balance's sake it CAN be better for lmg weapons to not be focusing on their IRL purpose of suppression and be given another role

[stoic terrace]

your way of arguing amuses me, against the person not their thoughts, i though we had that pseudo intellectuallism already sorted out but apperantly you are only capable of invalidating people by virtue of how they seem at a first glance

[fast thistle]

You don't have to state the exact words "I want aimpunch removed from the game to accomodate my playstyle instead of adapting and overcoming" for that to be your opinion, its implied by everything else you write, what you comment on, the way you.... try... to express yourself in here.

[stoic terrace]

my man, you fucking dingus

now i'm done

[fast thistle]

Yeah i haven't seen any milsimmers speaking on removing air strafing, its a roblox game with sliiiiightly more punishing mechanics than what the average roblox game has. Which is what makes the game unique. But it does seem to cause some kind of identity crisis among the playerbase.

Some players *cough* wants it to be an arcade shooter to fit the graphics. Other players think the game is good as it is, and just needs some finetuning when it comes to weapon balancing.

[stoic terrace]

i have told you about 3 fucking times that i like the mechanic just not your way of implementing it, i find what the devs did to be where it should be, i'm here for the casual mil sim not the cod experience, stop arguing against a strawman and argue against MY points not some made up bs that you like to use that fits in with your view point

[stoic terrace]

there you said it yourself you clown

[fast thistle]

No, you're not "done" in that way. You're "done" in the way that you don't have the mental fortitude to even attempt coming up with a single counterargument to my actual points. Instead you're throwing around a very ironic mix of adhoms and tone policing.

[brittle lichen]

Ok milsimer. Wait for milsim mode for aim punch

They should still remove aim punch for now

[stoic terrace]

the only thing i've heard so far is "you're a vectoid thus you have no place here", tell me what your argument is here, weapons should be balanced with aimpunch, good already said i don't like that since high recoil high damage weapons could get punished, low recoil high rpm weapons could get punished and that's simply not smth that makes the game better imo, for the ad hominem argument, you're the one who talks people down based on their perceived intellect, which let's you look like this 🤓 , just saying

[stoic terrace]

nah how it is right now is good

[brittle lichen]

Whats good does it do? Like fr its just an rng mechanic

If it were a pve game then sure

[fast thistle]

Nah aimpunch is already in the game right now, i like it, the "normal" mode.

I actually think devs should make a "casual" or "easy mode" with all these hardcore milsim aspects scaled down or removed instead of making a "milsim" mode. Who knows how it will play out. Im sure we are both getting what we want from the game in the end though.

Until then i just have to cope with facing low-effort, bad arguments on the discord (ofc this doesn't include you @turbid bane, you actually participated in an intellectually honest conversation, thanks)

[turbid bane]

also i recommend you drop the funny idea of vector players not leaning and wanting it to be removed because no one will ever take you seriously with this upside down rationale

[stoic terrace]

doesn't throw of your aim anymore but is still there for emersion

[brittle lichen]

It achieves the same thing.

[brittle lichen]

Ur just milsim pilled so you think its how the game should be. But why not play squad?

[brittle lichen]

Again just save it for milsim mode

[stoic terrace]

i like it, differing opinions

[brittle lichen]

Whats ur kpm?

[stoic terrace]

idk, 0.7? 0.6?

[brittle lichen]

I dont get how anyone whos trying to frag out could possibly like it

[stoic terrace]

have to check

[fast thistle]

I've actually put in the work to earn the right to be a little snide sometimes.
But what im saying is still true. Just look at the "milsim" accusations dropping in right now, leaning, aiming down sights, reloading and quick reloading, aimpunch.
They expected an arcade shooter when they saw the screenshots on steam.

[brittle lichen]

Aight thx for answer

[brittle lichen]

Whats with your entitlement?

[fast thistle]

Youre not wrong. I did reinstall squad after playing battlebit.

And its not just me who think "its how the game should be", apparently it was the devs vision on how the game should be.
But if im going to be consistent, seeing as i disagree about the devs ideological stance on shotguns, what the dev has said shouldnt impact your right or will to argue for the changes you want to see. Thats why i continue to argue in favour of the implementation of shotguns.
The only difference I've seen so far is the quality of the arguments, both when it comes to shotguns and aimpunch.

[turbid bane]

none of those mechanics can be considered hardcore or milsim besides having multiple types of reloading and excessive aimpunch, bad business which is mechanically the closest most similar fps to bbr is an arcade roblox shooter and all the tryhard sweats leanspam there just like they do in bbr, call of duty and apex legends which are arcade revolve around aiming down sight as a core mechanic in the game

[fast thistle]

A symptom of all the exp ive farmed in chat and the W's im being handed on a daily basis in here.

[brittle lichen]

Yea but milsim version didnt succeed did it?

[fast thistle]

I know. Thats the irony. Its barely a milsim game.

[brittle lichen]

Wdym? What lmao. Are you conrically online

[zenith prairie]

In the milsim mode if you get shot in the leg it should permanently hinder your movement, and if you get shot in both legs you should have to fight from a wheelchair

[brittle lichen]

Lmao bet

[fast thistle]

just wait until they add inerta to leanspamming 😆 this place is going to be a salt mine.

[turbid bane]

tryhard sweats abuse these mechanics (leanspam) and enjoy it, to imply that the type of player who uses vector would somehow be the one who wants it to be removed is plain wrong

[brittle lichen]

Why would they? Movement is sauced rn

[fast thistle]

In the easy mode leaning, proning, reloading, recoil, aimpunch, crouching, sprinting and aiming down sights will be removed. And you will get rocket jump (which do be kinda cool ngl)

[brittle lichen]

Ur already in salt mine first

[fast thistle]

Yes, i am in here right now aren't i?

[brittle lichen]

Bruh ur toxic

[turbid bane]

if leanspam gets nerfed there is dropshotting, if dropshotting is removed there is air strafing, if air strafing is removed, boom, you lose thousands of players

[stoic terrace]

shotguns just don't fit the game. they potentually one shot or 5 shot depending on armor, and the weapons got a humogous reload time, overall, they are frustrating to use and frustrating to fight against and a pain in the ass to balance, maybe as a secondary panic button but that'd be arcady wouldn't it?

[fast thistle]

And the game will be better for it ❤️

[brittle lichen]

Why u got a elietist boner about milsim?

[turbid bane]

yes thanks for revealing your true intention that's all anyone ever wanted from you

🙂

[brittle lichen]

It seems like you hate everything fun about this game

And unique

[fast thistle]

My true intention is preventing the game from dying.

[brittle lichen]

Bbr is a movement shooter

Not a squad clone

[fast thistle]

the irony....

[zenith prairie]

I would much rather that evasive movement takes place in the form of breakdancing and stuff than having zero inertia

[stoic terrace]

titanfall 2 about to get rekt even more

[turbid bane]

let's get rid of the playerbase, that'll save the game 4Head

[fast thistle]

The Battlefield/apex legends slide?

[brittle lichen]

Fr

[zenith prairie]

No, more like doing the worm and stuff while hip firing. It would make the game more interesting

[stoic terrace]

omg those aren't movement shooters 🤓 titanfall, ultrakill, turbo overkill are ackshually, but fr the movement is kinda cracked

[brittle lichen]

I love bbrs movement

Its one of the most unique things about this game

[zenith prairie]

I really don’t like the normalisation of sliding in games working how it usually does now… it usually somehow speeds you up?? It’s like you’re on an ice rink or something.

[fast thistle]

Again, the "playerbase" isn't in here advocating the removal of mechanics. The "playerbase" is probably playing the game or they are sleeping because mommy said it was time for beddy-byes.
Ofc devs wont add intertia to leaning, dont worry so much.

[brittle lichen]

Yea who slides irl

[zenith prairie]

BBR movement < TABG movement

[brittle lichen]

Ur wording is so bad faith

[fast thistle]

Y'all having a mental breakdown over a lil' flinch when you get hit by a bullet. Relax. Just learn from your mistakes, play more carefully.

[brittle lichen]

Stats?

[brittle lichen]

Its not removal of game mechanics its improvment of gameplay experience

[fast thistle]

Well, its probably one of the things we're going to get if the arcadeshooter kids gets their way.
That and a flossing emote in game.

Fortnite dance emote in game for 4.99$

[brittle lichen]

Emotes would be dope

[fast thistle]

Called it.

[brittle lichen]

Id love to taunt ppl like in tf2

[stoic terrace]

@brittle lichen 0.7 kpm, idk what that states but there you go

[brittle lichen]

U already shared urs thanks. I was curious abt his.

[stoic terrace]

you do know irony exists right 👀

[fast thistle]

How do you want to improve the gameplay experience?

[brittle lichen]

Rn aimpunch heavily favors person who gets shot off first

[fast thistle]

Yeah, its that thing you guys have been incapable of detecting everytime i claim you want leaning to be removed from the game because its a "hardcore" milsim mechanic.

[stoic terrace]

ye ye ik but srsly what does that mean, like kpm ofc ik what that means but what does that state about me as a player 😅

[brittle lichen]

Thats an issue with already lightning fast ttk

[stoic terrace]

now you go back paddeling i love it

[brittle lichen]

Its average dw

[zenith prairie]

I think that’s why it’s still here, to encourage carefulness so the game is quite focused around spotting your target before they spot you. Outside of CQC where it’s just a reaction time + ttk fight

[stoic terrace]

thx for letting me know slowly been grinding my way to a 1.28 k/d

[brittle lichen]

No ones removing things because they're milsim mechanics

[brittle lichen]

Nice

[fast thistle]

No, the whole reason people in this thread wants it gone is because:

1. They get a drop on someone
2. They spray their whole mag and hit maybe one bullet
3. Their opponent turned around and shoots them
4. They die
5. They blame aimpunch for dying

[stoic terrace]

and finaly assault is my most played class again

[zenith prairie]

Assault is honestly meta to me now

[fast thistle]

Nah its Medic. With a vector.

[stoic terrace]

actually true in a bunch of cases

[brittle lichen]

But if it doesnt reward mechical skill

[zenith prairie]

Mechanical skill is far from the only type of skill

[brittle lichen]

Strawman

[fast thistle]

@brittle lichen coping rn.

[zenith prairie]

Currently the biggest part of skill in this game is anticipating enemy behaviour anyway

[brittle lichen]

What no?

Its getting around them and gunning them quickly

[zenith prairie]

That’s how you get kills. By not giving them a chance to shoot back on you to begin with

[fast thistle]

Based take. You're not a vector main, i can tell.

[brittle lichen]

Share ur stats

[fast thistle]

Light armor vector main medic detected, i can tell.

[zenith prairie]

That relies heavily on anticipation of enemy behaviour

[fast thistle]

The exact person ive been talking about.

[brittle lichen]

If ur oppenent can return fire they shouldnt be punished even more

[stoic terrace]

fair point

[brittle lichen]

Laugh all u want

[stoic terrace]

he be copin' rn

[fast thistle]

Equip a heavier armor. You get extra mags (you can spray more, who knows maybe you will hit your opponent)

[brittle lichen]

But if u screw up u shouldnt be bailed

[brittle lichen]

Lmao

[zenith prairie]

Aim punch makes more of a difference in such situations where both players see each other at mid range at about the same time

[fast thistle]

"if you lose a firefight you shouldn't die"

ok bro

[brittle lichen]

True and it still favors smgs

[stoic terrace]

the gun with better recoil wins that :/

[zenith prairie]

But before the changes it allowed things like the vector to contest other guns at mid range

[brittle lichen]

Broski ur bad

[zenith prairie]

Depends on what mid range is

[brittle lichen]

Just remove aim punch

[zenith prairie]

Speaking of this. Anyone know how the aim punch scaling was implemented? Do we have a graph?

A formula?

[fast thistle]

At what?

[brittle lichen]

Thatd be nice

[brittle lichen]

Social interactions and this game

[fast thistle]

Nope, since its not an actual weapon stat its hard to know.

They should make it a weapon stat which can be modified with muzzle attachments.

[brittle lichen]

They should delete it

[zenith prairie]

I don’t think it should be modifiable. Just a fixed number we can see

[fast thistle]

How frustrated are you right now?

[brittle lichen]

For all the bitching about no one defending points i betcha do. You sure love mechanics that favor vector users

[stoic terrace]

just frustrates both, the one with the low acc, high recoil but high flinch weapon and the person getting railed

[fast thistle]

Yeah muzzle attachments and guns sure don't need more ways of differentiation and individual tuning. Its not like they are mostly the same.

[zenith prairie]

I don’t believe it favours the vector any more. Well, it’s pretty much a certainty that it doesn’t, compared to many guns. For example a 40 damage gun should certainly have more overall than the vector

[zenith prairie]

I don’t think this is the answer.

[brittle lichen]

Oh wow most guns do realitvely the same thing in effect. Its almost like a casual game cant model what its like to actually use 2 diff weapons irl

[fast thistle]

Do you think the current balancing around damage per bullet is preferrable?

It doesnt solve the high rpm meta

[brittle lichen]

But even tiny hits still mess ur aim up

Like why do you even like aim punch?

Its just such a no brainer to remove it

[zenith prairie]

I don’t see why it doesn’t solve this.

[turbid bane]

that's because battlebit has a case of attachment bloat, no major fps title has so many attachment choices to the scale bbr does, only games like phantom forces which get criticized for the bloat

[brittle lichen]

Removing aim punch would help

[zenith prairie]

We don’t know exactly how it scales but I think the total aim punch of an AK15 is going to be about 65% more than that of a vector? That seems fair

That is assuming the exponent here is 2

[fast thistle]

Tarkov? The difference is that most bbr attachments are redundant.

[brittle lichen]

React with clow emoji all u want

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message

[turbid bane]

even in tarkov there is lots of redundancy and it's not a particularly well designed game

[brittle lichen]

Ur not making an actual argument

[fast thistle]

Yeah, its what people do in here.

[fast thistle]

Thats what ive been saying! amazing

[brittle lichen]

Its what 🤡

[brittle lichen]

Uve yet to make an argument

[zenith prairie]

I’m not sure what this has to do with my statement

[fast thistle]

@brittle lichen I've made plenty of arguments though. You just dont have the intellectual capacity to engage with those arguments.

[brittle lichen]

Ive actually said why aim punch is bad

[stoic terrace]

ad hominem

[zenith prairie]

aim lunch 🤤

[brittle lichen]

Lol

Im on mobile

[fast thistle]

Yeah this says a lot: #1133360306278645810 message

[stoic terrace]

he didn't make a lot of them and they where burried between bad ones and faulty ones, not a lot to argue against

clown all you want you wannabe Einstein

no one cares about you

[fast thistle]

You're just collecting L's by desperately screaming "NO U".

[brittle lichen]

So your argument is that aim punch should stay since its only people complaining who want it gone?

[fast thistle]

You've tried to argue against me for what, an hour now? You care.

[stoic terrace]

nah man XD

[brittle lichen]

Thats not a very fleshed out arugment

[stoic terrace]

yes that's it that's everything one could gather from is clowning

[fast thistle]

Yeah, instead of arguing for the removal of game mechanics. Get. Better. At. The. Game.

If what you're doing right now isn't working out for you, try playing the game in a different way. Who knows you might have more fun instead of being buttfrustrated over mechanics that affect you just as much as it effects the enemy.

[brittle lichen]

Please share your stats kafka

Please

I need to know

[brittle lichen]

My guess is you're a shitter who enjoys bs rng mechanics for the occasional free kill

[brittle lichen]

You act as though a game mechanic is holly and cant be removed

Why are u silent now?

[stoic terrace]

cuz he has to idk bad arguments he's no longer allowed to clown

[brittle lichen]

Gn thx for fun

[stoic terrace]

yep

woke up with this clown XD

[fast thistle]

💤

[fast thistle]

Because you dont give me any exp. Too low lvl.

Its funny how the two people im arguing right now cant even spell correctly.
Im sure there is some sort of correlation here, but stating it outright might be offensive.

[brittle lichen]

Its called typing on a phone keyboard dickhead

[brittle lichen]

Ok bozo. You're unwilling to engage with my points. Which seems to me you lack iq to understand them

[placid dagger]

Oh shit I missed clowntrap saga's next installment

[stoic terrace]

it's called not being a native speaker you unaccomedative idiot

[brittle lichen]

Call him ignorant bigot

[stoic terrace]

yup, but it wasn't all to funny

[placid dagger]

clown boi is probably not a native speaker as well, he just looks up shit from the good ol' thesaurus while arguing cause he thinks if he uses the big words it'll make him sound smarter

[stoic terrace]

thx man, i don't have enough names to call people with, already used soggy, whatever idk anymore toast

[brittle lichen]

@fast thistle has no self respect it seems. He doesn't stand up for himself

[stoic terrace]

nope

[brittle lichen]

You're most welcome.

Its late. I've wasted too much time arguing

[stoic terrace]

nighty night then, just woke up 2.30h ago so yay

[brittle lichen]

Thx. Gl with ur day

[peak gulch]

From my experience playing 6 hours last night:
-Aim punch is seriously reduced across the board
-up close, rapid fire weapons will still knock you around a little
-at medium/long range, getting pinged will knock you about just enough to miss headshots or hard shots.
-it doesn't feel unfair or otherwise punitive, but still does it's intended job of being a mild nuisance to marksmen

[fast thistle]

you haven't even tried lmao

[stoic terrace]

"hey kids the clown is back"

[brittle lichen]

I agree with u except for last part. It still feels unfair.

[peak gulch]

Nah, if you're getting shot, you shouldn't be able to perfectly line up on someone's head

[brittle lichen]

No u shouldnt

[peak gulch]

Switching to body-shots is still viable, but trying to head-plink under fire is still difficult, as it should be

[brittle lichen]

But ur body already reacts

The game doesnt need to double fist u

[stoic terrace]

i haven't had a single fight where i died due to rng, always happened due to skill issue

[peak gulch]

I've died maybe 5-6 times in 6 hours to losing a fight to aim punch, usually because I was trying to engage whilst already being shot at. This is in comparison to maybe 3/4 of my deaths pre-patch

[peak gulch]

No it doesn't

[stoic terrace]

yup just my experience

[brittle lichen]

You dont have even slightly elavated heart rate when under more stress?

[peak gulch]

On the plus side, I can now snap-react and get some cheeky scrublord who was trying to flank me with a scar

[peak gulch]

In a videogame? No?

[brittle lichen]

Doubt. Unless u just dont care

[peak gulch]

It's a videogame, it's not risky

[brittle lichen]

Sure deaths dont mean much

[fickle cedar]

Now i know that i didnt die to bullshit rng sending my aim off the stratosphere even though i shot 1st, instead i die to someone shooting me from the other side of the map while im shooting someone else because of an angle i didnt notice, thanks oki

[peak gulch]

Yea, not getting tickled by an SMG from a dot on the horizon is nice

[royal sable]

Just play ultra wide /s

[brittle lichen]

Its still increased pressure if ur trading shots with someone if you care abt winning.

[placid dagger]

Just see the whole map instead /s

[brittle lichen]

Which causes you to tense up and suffer in aim

[royal sable]

Just load into the game with an alt that sits in spawn with map open

[peak gulch]

That's both a you-problem and a skill issue

[brittle lichen]

Stats time

It sounds like ur a zen god or dgaf

[peak gulch]

Dgaf

[stoic terrace]

isn't it common to get nervous in such a tense situation?

[peak gulch]

(because it's a videogame)

[brittle lichen]

So why play?

If u dgaf

[peak gulch]

Because it's fun?

[brittle lichen]

So u do gaf?

[royal sable]

Actual skill issue if you tense up while panicking lmao. Like deer in the headlights

Think fast bozo

[peak gulch]

Giving a fuck and having fun are two different things

[stoic terrace]

lmao

[brittle lichen]

Bro obv never does any aim training

[peak gulch]

When I don't take a game seriously, I don't feel anxious or nervous about a situation

So I don't tense

[royal sable]

Never had to, I ain't that shit at gaming.

[brittle lichen]

Ur going to tense up natually from just trying to aim

[brittle lichen]

Stats buddy

Im at 1.3kpm and most games 2kpm

[peak gulch]

Aim training as in videogame aim training?

[brittle lichen]

Uh what do you think pal?

[peak gulch]

Damn buddy go touch grass

[brittle lichen]

I mean piss aim training

[brittle lichen]

Why hostile?

Ur in the same forum as me buddy

[peak gulch]

But I dgaf, remember

[brittle lichen]

So going full circle why do you care enough talk about ur aim punch experience?

U spent 6hrs playing go touch grass

[royal sable]

lmao, flaunting kill stats, in BBR? 😂 this ain't cod buddy

also, cringe lmao

[brittle lichen]

Bros got no reading comprehension

😆

[royal sable]

ngl, i feel aimpunch changes, with bandage buff, is a net gain for DMRs

[brittle lichen]

Its not flaunting its sharing after I was called bad for not liking aim punch. Follow along buddy

[royal sable]

cringed explanation for stat sharing

[brittle lichen]

Bro why do you think you're any less cringe?

These bots are so prevelant

[fast thistle]

Telling you, these buffoons work themselves up, miss all their shots, die and then blame aimpunch.

[fast thistle]

Yeah this guy has been crying about aimpunch for 2½ hours now, whenever someone tries to explain its a skill related issue, not an issue rooted in aimpunch he desperately spams "1v1 me", and when that doesn't succeed he tries to pull the "show me ur k/d".

All in barely legible English.

[analog kiln]

After some initial gameplay post update. I have not noticed any significant flinch encounters where I go "I clearly lost that because of aim-punch". However, perhaps I will run into those encounters once I play more. But so far, it appears the change has worked.
The other thing I have noticed is I have been getting challenged quite a bit by recons at mid range engagements about 150m-200m where I am landing shots on them but they still manage to return accurate fire back at me. Though I only really noticed this during one of my matches. Again, will play more to see if this is a one off occurance.

[fleet pond]

it's so low that it doesn't seem to decide fights anymore, low enough that it's almost not even there. pretty good change

[tepid jasper]

It's not the 40 round mag capacity and .5 second ttk?

One of the highest based mag capacities, and a ttk 3x faster than anything else in the game?

[fleet pond]

are you just making up statistics on a literal whim

[tepid jasper]

It's got 1200 rpm right

[fleet pond]

the answer is yes

[tepid jasper]

That means 5 milliseconds between hits

24 damage is 7 hits to kill if you hit all armor and they have heavier armor

.35 seconds

So ig I did make it up

mb

Quite low recoil meaning accuracy is very consistent

It's got the fastest ttk by a damn long shot

I doubt the frequency of punch really made a difference in why people chose it

Your enemies were already dead before they got their second shot out

[zenith prairie]

40 round mag is an arbitrary stat if damage is lower and rpm is higher. mag size was pretty average

[zenith prairie]

and... ????????

there are many guns with a faster ttk, 3x faster would be ludicrous

[tepid jasper]

Vector has the highest ttk in the game

By far

[zenith prairie]

before the nerf it was still generally beaten at point blank by scorpion, FAL, honey badger, AS val, and the l86a1. with heavy barrels AK15 and scar-H as well

[tepid jasper]

And 40 rounds isn't at all arbitrary, with the rpm you spend all of it in one and a half seconds

[zenith prairie]

now the list has grown

vector was never fastest ttk

[tepid jasper]

???????

ok bye

[zenith prairie]

you are weird.

[tepid jasper]

yeah ok

[placid dagger]

lmao what?

what you said was factually incorrect

[tepid jasper]

I see I seem to have been incorrect

[placid dagger]

the vector did not have the lowest ttk

[tepid jasper]

Anyhow, you take middle of the pack damage, fastest rpm, and a larger mag size to supply it, as well as smg range and controllable recoil

I don't think the frequency of aim punch is making any major difference in why it was good

[placid dagger]

The thing is, with how absurd the flinch was the vector had the biggest advantage causing many flinches

it got to roll more than other weapons, of course it caused a difference

it's just not very noticable for the user

but for the victims it's frustrating

[tepid jasper]

But I'm saying that with all those other reasons that vector was on top and the collective was asking for nerfs for it, I don't think at all that aim punch was a major reason it was meta

Might have been a major reason for frustration but it was a minimal factor in why it was so good

And no doubt it caused the most flinch

[placid dagger]

The aim punch was a factor though, on top of it being good at ranges where it should not have been effective. It has 1200 rpm of course it's going to benefit greatly from shitty aim punch. So the amount of aim punch is not a minor factor you can ignore.

[zenith prairie]

it let it compete at longer ranges than it should've been able to

[tepid jasper]

Fair enough, I didn't consider that

[pastel shore]

First off, a high ttk means it would kill slow. You mean it has a fast or short or low ttk.

However, even then, you are wrong 🙂

FAL(Lb), scorpion, famas(light barrel), l86(light barrel), Groza, are all equal or faster ttk than even pre nerf vector. There are actually a few others that are equal or better when you consider armor or throw in a headshot here and there.

The vector was op because it has fast ttk, but combined with high rpm+aim punch being poorly implemented, controllable recoil, and decent mag capacity, even with quick mag. It's ttk isn't even the primary reason it was so good, never mind that it wasn't the fastest killer in the game at all

People use other guns with worse ttk just as often as the vector, for example, the p90 is extremely popular among top players, but it's ttk isn't anything special, it loses straight 1v1s against a ton of weapons. Ttk is important, but it's not the end all stat in a game where ttk is fast all around. If it was, you'd have seen a lot more fal and scorpion and l86 and Groza complaints

[weary garden]

yeah, the vector was more accurate by sheer volume of bullets

if you could land your shots in a cqc situation you could beat the vector, the issue is aimpunch and the vector being able to spray more

[pastel shore]

Yea the vector was just the most forgiving gun in the game, especially considering aim punch.

THAT is why it was so popular and OP. Any mediocre player improved their odds considerably through its sheer volume of controllable fire, while anyone on the receiving end was at complete mercy of aim punch.

[weary garden]

you could honestly even hipfire if the enemy was like right next to you and probably win

[pastel shore]

Tbf the hip fire is extremely controllable with any gun, it's similar to tarkov in that you have very good control over it, and your gun shoots where the barrel is pointing

[weary garden]

I wish there was a crosshair when not adsing/sprinting though

[tepid jasper]

No

[pastel shore]

You can get one in the form of the laser. Regular crosshair isn't good for hip firing, you need to look at your barrel, it doesn't shoot towards center of screen

[tepid jasper]

The hipfire implementation currently doesn't really allow for that and it would have to have completely rng bloom

And it's fun pointing your barrel at people

Rather than ooga booga white marks

[pastel shore]

If you try and use a crosshair or dot at center screen you will actually make it much harder on yourself to hip fire. I would like of they made the green laser more visible, though. It's hard to see and doesn't show on enemy character models at the moment, though that's a seperate topic / suggestion

[weary garden]

oh okay then, my bad

[lost estuary]

the p90 has crazy hipfire i use it with a lazer and is super ez imo

[weary garden]

but yeah overall I'm honestly not vibing with the update, the bandage change is a downgrade and the aim punch change doesn't feel significant enough

[pastel shore]

I feel the opposite, I'm having so much more fun now. I can swap classes anytime I want, though I mostly stick to medic since I tend to live long enough to run out of bandages on other classes, and the aim punch was reduced enough so it's only noticeable very occasionally, specifically at mid range when trying to hit headshots. It should be reduced on the larger hitting weapons or removed entirely, but atm it's already so much better than it was prepatch

[weary garden]

the biggest thing I've noticed is that non-medics have an approximate 0% chance of reviving you now, and even medics are reviving less because bandage healing is faster than pack healing for them

[stoic terrace]

they can't bandage heal tho

[weary garden]

okay no idea why I'm having medics run past me way more often since the update dropped then

[lost estuary]

thats just most medics lol

[stoic terrace]

bad luck ig has been happening a ton before the update aswell from what i can tell

[exotic wing]

✅ Run faster. ✅ Destroy vehicles. ✅ Infinite healing, and heal the fastest. ✅ Best weapons in the game. ✅ Can use radial menu for ammo drops

[lost estuary]

its 50/50 if the res you or not

[stoic terrace]

depends

[pastel shore]

The other changes were really good, one of my favorite small changes was getting ownership of claymores / mines when you shoot them. I'm having a ton of fun killing players with their own mines haha.

I actually haven't noticed that, tbh I was expecting it but I got picked up a ton yesterday even by non-medics. I do think it's generally expected atm to be picked up less by non-medics, but I'm not sure yet if that's a good or bad thing.

I think most players are just too impatient for medics. Ex I will always run past someone and clear the area and kill the person who killed them before I come back and pick them up, otherwise it just results in an ambush, but I notice a lot of players give up before I come back around.

I only ignore players when I can't clear the area, or they are in a really bad spot, or screaming on mic(aka letting the enemy know I'm rezzing and vulnerable)

[lost estuary]

that true a lot ofppl just give up

i like playing support but atm there feels like there is no reason 2 as medic can do everything

[fair summit]

wdym, support has become way more viable after this patch

besides the movement speed lol

[lost estuary]

once the armor is broken your just worse and there isnt much variety

sure i can resupply everyone but in the long run it isnt much imo

[fair summit]

you have the most healing potential out of any class besides medic still

and you can play fortnite

[lost estuary]

yea thats ture but it still lacks variety atm only having 4 weapons sucks

[fair summit]

yeah, at least they're good weapons

maybe not the ultimax though

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/852669297611636749.webp?size=48&name=kekw&quality=lossless

[lost estuary]

ya lol

ihave like 3k on 249 and 2k on mg36

got bored of them tho

[fair summit]

yeah understandable

there were a good amount of support weps in the pipeline at least

[slate parrot]

Ideally we get a support update next

Engineer and assault grew in popularity and with a few more bandages should be contenders for medic

Recon has always been okis middle child but with some spotting incentives it'll be right up there with the rest

Support needs the next most amount of love

[brittle lichen]

Yes give assault 5-8 bandages. They need to change bandages to 10 points instead of 20 for supply crates to

[slate parrot]

Definitely agree on the second

But how much is too much

Even if medic heals twice as fast the incentive is supposed to be infinite healing

[brittle lichen]

Ehh

Just make it that only medic can revive non squad members

Medic shouldnt be about pushing, but rather about force sustainment

Shouldn't assault be best class for assaulting?

[gritty stream]

Yeah with current movespeed nerf he's almost unplayable

[humble nest]

switch to your pistol

[brittle lichen]

Dont use drum mag 🤷

[gritty stream]

Cries in m249

[brittle lichen]

Does that actually work?

[humble nest]

yep

[slate parrot]

How is it that every day we get closer to battlefield 5

[humble nest]

counterstrike rules apply

[brittle lichen]

Bf5 had some decent stuff

Bf5's biggest issue was ttk

[slate parrot]

anyways here's how you make support faster

[gritty stream]

Also at this point what even is the point, picking support and not using a lmg/drum

Might as well play assault

[humble nest]

tbh the ultimax is pretty great

it takes a lot of adjusting though

[brittle lichen]

And if in clan sqaud being able make revive 12 ppl is enough. And lastly unless medic dont revive non squad memebers most of the time. They dont matter.

[analog kiln]

verticle grip + tacticle barrel, and you got yourself a 100 round laser gun

[brittle lichen]

Exo

[analog kiln]

also more bandages and ammo

[slate parrot]

It's pretty ok but the m249, a medium range gun has better vertical recoil

[humble nest]

it doesn't matter if the recoil is higher because the rate of fire it is controllable

[slate parrot]

wrong

[humble nest]

dude i'm averaging like 3-1 with it, its fine

[slate parrot]

the rate of fire and vertical recoil of the m249 is actually lower than the ultimadx

[humble nest]

you're on crack

[slate parrot]

do the math

[fast thistle]

Increase it.

[analog kiln]

the vertical recoil is lower on the SAW, but it definitely has a higher ROF compared to the ultimax

[humble nest]

but maf

[slate parrot]

current ultimax has 1.5 vertical recoil and 600 firerate, equal to an effective vertical recoil of 900
current m249 has 1.2 vertical recoil and 700 firerate, equal to an effective vertical recoil of 770
Ultimax also has a first shot multiplier of 2.0 for some reason
only reason ultimax feels good is the absurdly low horizontal recoil

[brittle lichen]

Clown

[slate parrot]

but it can be better

[brittle lichen]

L86 is best gun for support anyways

[slate parrot]

Here's a chart comparing similar weapons and their effective recoil values (RPM)

[brittle lichen]

The rest are just good, but worse ars

[fast thistle]

Yeah and you know what that means? Post nerf, these people are crying over nothing. Only way aimpunch would be noticable now is if ttk was increased, and nobody is that stupid that they want a longer ttk right?

[slate parrot]

it's fine but the AR's are just better

[brittle lichen]

Please stop being a

You're emabarrsing yourself

[humble nest]

do the AR's have a 100rnd mag

[brittle lichen]

You dont want a 100rnd mag

[slate parrot]

Do you actually get to use that 100 round mag without getting sniped

[humble nest]

yes

[slate parrot]

then you have some good RNG

[humble nest]

stop laying down like a shlub with a bipod

[brittle lichen]

No stop the cap

Your not shooting anything useful if true

[humble nest]

I'll do some recording next time I play I guess

[brittle lichen]

✅

[fast thistle]

Dont let them gaslight you into believing that.

[slate parrot]

I totally believe him using the entire mag and not just 30 rounds before dipping into cover

[humble nest]

you pick angles and lay down fire on them and people just walk into the bullets a lot of the time
at longer ranges you wiggle around and spray in their general direction

ultimax is good at medium to medium close range , medium you can outshoot most individual people, medium close you can control it into mostly headshots

[slate parrot]

wh

so you use it in m249's optimal range

[humble nest]

well i'm not raining on people at 300m+, so yes

[brittle lichen]

Sorry bros smarter than you. Dont drag others down

[slate parrot]

so it's a lower ttk m249

[brittle lichen]

Deagle had fastest headshot ttk

[slate parrot]

higher*

[humble nest]

its lower ttk if you're not slapping heads because you can control the recoil, sure

but its rate of fire/damage is lower because its controllable, its fine

[fast thistle]

After your poor display yesterday... please shut it. 🙂

[brittle lichen]

All guns are contrallable if you dont have high horizontal

[brittle lichen]

You're genuinley brain deficent.

[humble nest]

its just not better than the 249 at level 100 like most gun unlocks, its a little bit of a different gun thats roughly equivilent, after a bit of screwing around I liked it more than the 249

[placid dagger]

kafka taaccoo was literally incorrect just like you

[fast thistle]

Unless if its you playing.

[brittle lichen]

Share your stats

[slate parrot]

but again it's not really equivalent

the only advantage it has is horizontal recoil

[brittle lichen]

You wont, because they're worse and your're insecure

[placid dagger]

man stop with the dick measuring

[humble nest]

if you say so, I haven't had issues with it and think is fine

[fast thistle]

What have i been incorrect on? Please find ONE statement ive been incorrect. Dont worry, ill wait.

[brittle lichen]

Hes the toxic one

[placid dagger]

you don't need kafka's stats to know what he is like

[placid dagger]

my guy you have not been correct on anything

[brittle lichen]

You don't deserve the time it'd take. Educate yourself

[fast thistle]

We are about a 2 seconds away from a "1v1 me bro".

Thats usually how the argument goes when rhetoric fails 🤣

[brittle lichen]

I cant 1v1 in bbr so not really dumby

Bros wrong again

[brittle lichen]

Again why not share?

I simply cant fathom it

[fast thistle]

Sure. I can understand why you cant seem to find the time for it.

Its because either of you cant do it, because i havent been wrong once.

[placid dagger]

Can you stop interacting with the attention seeking child?

[slate parrot]

Let me put it this way, plenty of people found the famas fine. It's useable, but it underperforms. some players think it doesn't need a buff, but the larger majority don't find it as effective as an alternate. The buff I'm proposing to lower vert and first shot recoil is not to make it have a better ttk or handling, just to help it fit the fantasy of a no recoil weapon

[brittle lichen]

Dumbass alert

[brittle lichen]

With lb famas is quite good

[humble nest]

I count hit rate towards TTK which seems to be a foreign concept here, if I can't hit my dude, he isn't dead, I haven't killed him, decreased recoil would certainly improve its ttk

I dont see any changes as necessary, but when the LMG boy has more options I can see specializing it more like what you're suggesting

[slate parrot]

yes with this attachment or that build the gun is good, but on the other hand the standard out of the box m4 is just as good

[brittle lichen]

You never aknowledge being called out

[fast thistle]

You mean @brittle lichen? Yeah i really should, i can tell he's a kid. Brain not fully formed. Thats why their arguments always fail.

[placid dagger]

that's not how ttk is calculated though, what you mean is it'd be more usable

you have to make assumptions while calculating things of ttk's nature

the main assumption with ttk being 100% accuracy

[brittle lichen]

Bro you're actually so toxic. Get rid of your rage boner

[placid dagger]

No I clearly meant you kafka

There's a reason why all of the posts that say "fuck off kafka" get a thumbs up from everyone you brainlet

[slate parrot]

I'm only aiming to standardize weapons accross the board. Yes, more hits increases ttk, but then aug would not be considered completely niche if that was as effectively true

right now aug has the best recoil and highest ttk, and the following it has is one of a cult

[humble nest]

aug is also really good, its just not the best for running around as an adderall mainlining medic

aug has the secondary role of being the best anti aircraft gun

[brittle lichen]

Its because ttk is most important close range where hit rate is high

[brittle lichen]

Bro aug is so bad. You can do ok with it, but its not a good gun

[slate parrot]

it's good, but the larger playerbase just doesn't use it because most gunfights are within 70 meters, on top of aimpunch outclassing the weapon with low fire rate and low damage

I think it could use the +1 or 2 damage I forget how much to let it use long barrel and improve ttk

leaves the fire rate alone and the low recoil niche

[humble nest]

I may just be an A list, top tier player and can perform with garbage equipment I guess?
I just dont think so, I use what I like?

[fickle cedar]

I love aug, its so accurate attachments that ruin its recoil like extended or a long barrel still makes the gun a laser

[slate parrot]

idk man but average player sits at 1.5 kpm and kd

[brittle lichen]

Bro people who like aug only tend to like it cause they cant pull down on there mouse

[humble nest]

I like the aug because you can get a nice mix of really fast ADS and pretty low recoil
but mostly because I can absolutely F off helicopters if I get a chance lol

[slate parrot]

so if you're above that then yea, you're not a c lister

[fickle cedar]

Shit even assault totally nulifies the extendes mags long reload time

[brittle lichen]

Nopers

Average is prob .5-.6 kpm

[slate parrot]

straight from the okis mouth

so

yknow

[brittle lichen]

I need context for his statement

[humble nest]

I guess you have nothing to worry about then, you should try the aug
Good player doesn't mind using a lesser gun , can still perform 🙂

[slate parrot]

modeling average player stats to figure out how to do progression

[brittle lichen]

Because statistically average 1.5kpm would be 40 kills in 20m which is normal dom match length

Most players are below that

[slate parrot]

yea the average player is between the 80 kill gods and the 2 kill newbies

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[humble nest]

you guys should use median, not average

[brittle lichen]

Fr

[humble nest]

because average is stupid

[slate parrot]

found that one asw but it wasn't much lower

don't have the number on me

it's not sub 1 tho

[humble nest]

its typically about the same but median isn't prone to jeff bezos showing up and throwing the curve way off

[brittle lichen]

The avg player is not putting up a 1.5kpm. You're misinformed if you think so. I bet oki had more context in statement

[humble nest]

take some end of game screenshots and do the math

[brittle lichen]

Exactly

It doesnt add up

[slate parrot]

so go do it

[brittle lichen]

Glad you agree

Guys whats your kpm? Mines 1.3, and rising so most games its like 1.5-2kpm. Most games im near the top 10 or less players depending on gamemode

[slate parrot]

1.5 and middle of the pack

[humble nest]

I fluctuate around 2-2.5

depending if I'm screwing around with support or what

[slate parrot]

1.8 on a diff game

[brittle lichen]

Are u normally in middle of scoreboard?

Dont confuse kd and kpm

[rich iris]

i'm typically near top of scoreboard with anywhere from 2-3 kd

[slate parrot]

ok but like that's comp player numbers like you were saying before

[slate parrot]

kpm from stats screen

[brittle lichen]

Ss?

[slate parrot]

of what middle of scoreboard or the stat screen

[fast thistle]

Because this thread has a little group of 4-5 really really sensitive people who don't know how to deal with facts and logic?
As ive said, reacts doesn't decide if an opinion is right or wrong, good or bad. Facts do, and how well you can argue those facts do. So instead of appealing to the emote reacts of a very triggered minority. Why don't you show me that one single comment where i've been wrong. You know the thing i asked you about before you started trying to find ways of avoiding proving your point? 🙂

[brittle lichen]

@royal sable ur 🤡 for ur reactions

[slate parrot]

please just stfu I'm trying to have a normal convo here

[fast thistle]

With these people? Good luck man.

[brittle lichen]

Ur the bad faith one

[humble nest]

I know you are but what am I

[brittle lichen]

?

[brittle lichen]

Are you saying im bad faith?

[placid dagger]

says the thread derailer

[slate parrot]

Testing progression btw if ur curious about the low stats

actually

lemme grab the other account this is awful for accurate data

[royal sable]

0.0 WL 😂

[brittle lichen]

Thx. Ill ss in sec

[placid dagger]

how is your W/L 0.0?

bro never finished a game

[royal sable]

Cringe exchange dick pics stat screenshots

[slate parrot]

127v is terrible for game changing moments

[brittle lichen]

Its just helpful data

[royal sable]

Das a lotta vectoring 😂

[slate parrot]

It's an easy gun

[royal sable]

Fr fr

[slate parrot]

more kills in an hour than a rifle I'm using for a day

[royal sable]

Yeah. It do be busted. Glad the nerf actually toned it down pretty good.

[fast thistle]

exactly this.

[placid dagger]

oh shit kafka is about to call you a vector user 💀

[slate parrot]

you know this argument is kinda pointless considering @humble nest alr admitted to having a much higher KPM and KD than our alr high "average"

[fast thistle]

Yeah, would be fun if they nerfed it even more. This place is already a salt mine.

[slate parrot]

so he'll have better use out of "trash" weapons

not that they're bad just that they're underperforming to M4, which is our starter weapon

[royal sable]

2k vector kills 😂

[humble nest]

you guys just need to relax and focus on having fun
if you are the slightest bit of patient the kills come

so often when I was sniping I would take incoming fire and just turn a corner and do something else for 45 seconds, then com eback and shoot the guy who got bored

[royal sable]

Smh people bragging about kpm when they're just vector addicts aiyah

[fast thistle]

Nah, he doesnt have the vector user mentality.

[royal sable]

Gamers and their goldfish memory. Unless it's an enemy sniper, I swear they have a notebook of grudges.

[fast thistle]

They cant have fun in a game with "hardcore" mechanics like aimpunch, leaning, proneing, reloading, recoil, etc.

[tepid jasper]

You don't need revives to level up

[slate parrot]

I'm simply here to gather feedback on weapons and suggest balance changes. You're a bit of an outlier here compared to a lot of voices so saying the gun doesn't need it is a bit hard to take based on your perspective.

[brittle lichen]

doing kpm calc based of assault which I didn't play until today, and struggling to use m110 my kpm for yesterday was 1.52

[fast thistle]

nobody asked

[placid dagger]

Did you mean to say "The Great Book of Grudges"?

[brittle lichen]

Not u buddy

[slate parrot]

even if the guns are enjoyable that doesn't neccessarily mean they're balanced

[humble nest]

I can take some gameplay videos , but really with a red dot you should be able to put a stream on a doorway and a lot of the time chuckleheads will just lean out into it for some stupid ass reason

oh i'm being surpressed I should hide, then 3-4 seconds later they just eat it anyway rather than hide for the mag to empty, I dont get it lol

[royal sable]

Bro I kid you not I've had an enemy recon change team, take down my fortifications. Just so their mates could kill me 😂

[humble nest]

lol

[slate parrot]

you, but I want the average 0.5 or whatever we end up deciding KPM guy to be able to copy that strat, which they can do with the m249 and not the ultimax

[placid dagger]

oh I've taken down a friendly's fortifications just because he kept blocking my view

[humble nest]

probably sure

I just like the ultimax more, the 249 worked fine too

I feel like the ultimax is way more usable with a medium scope

[brittle lichen]

I'm sharing based off discussion I had with someone else. I know you're not good at reading, but don't interject

[placid dagger]

I will use all 5 of my c4s just to spite you

[slate parrot]

yeah stronger players are drawn to lower horizontal recoil weapons

[gritty stream]

I can't be the only support main who thinks the movespeed nerf is incredibly harsh and unjustified

Right?

[placid dagger]

mate the only counter to kafka's idiocy is to ignore him

[humble nest]

the move speed nerf is rough but you can get around it

[slate parrot]

you're not and I alr posted a manifesto on things that would help

for starters the backpacks

[gritty stream]

Ye saw

[brittle lichen]

I guarantee the average kpm is not 1.5

[gritty stream]

Thx btw

[humble nest]

you need to adjust your weapon addons slightly to help negate it, and switch to pistol when changing locations because you run like twice as fast

[gritty stream]

But still, that doesn't solve the issue fully

[placid dagger]

you can swap to pistol while running but yea the change kinda hit like a truck

[slate parrot]

default gear is still much slower on top of already slow weapons

[humble nest]

I also switched from exo to heavy armor for the extra speed and 2 more mags

[gritty stream]

That is incredibly unviable bcs by the time you switch to your primary you'll become cheese

[royal sable]

Enforced L86 😂

[gritty stream]

Exo barely protects from bullets

[slate parrot]

the fact that normal armor is level 120 is insane

[royal sable]

Anything else is a crawl lmao

[slate parrot]

and I think mg36 should be the default LSW not l86

[placid dagger]

You can swap when you know you are safe obv. Otherwise you just gotta deal with it.

[slate parrot]

or if we get an m4 like lsw

we kinda need that

[gritty stream]

Exactly

We now have to just deal with it

[slate parrot]

smthn at 650/700 rpm with a 1.2 recoil stat

[royal sable]

Use the pocket vector 😂

[gritty stream]

I have to actually probably start playing medic

[placid dagger]

ah yes "normal armor"

[slate parrot]

I'll have to look through the list of twitch skin leaks but I think the RPK would be a great fit for a level 0 support weapon

[royal sable]

Been using the M249 and not being flinched to shit and being able to empty 100 rounds on target is 🙏

[slate parrot]

yes that's what it's named and it has matching stats

[gritty stream]

85% of my playtime is on support I don't wanna switch 😭

[slate parrot]

unlike the backpacks

[gritty stream]

I wanted a buff but got a nerf

[brittle lichen]

I'm not using support. But no flinch is 🔥

[placid dagger]

the progression makes no sense most of the time lmao

[gritty stream]

I think I have to play diet support now

Running all normal and no helmet

I wanna see how it goes

It used to be great pre nerf but now it feels mandatory

[placid dagger]

finally a support I can kill with one headshot

[slate parrot]

not at all, and I plan on addressing level reqs to get gear for diff classes like engineer and medic who also have important gear locked behind level 120

[placid dagger]

the start and the end of this sentence feels a bit contradictory don't you think

[slate parrot]

as in yea, the progression doesn't make sense at all

[placid dagger]

It reads differently but yea

[slate parrot]

having the opportunity to play on a level 0 account has highlighted a ton of things

for example the fact that the character tab doesn't highlight new when you unlock something

[placid dagger]

like how absurd the gaps between successive snipers are?

[slate parrot]

or the fact that your gadgets aren't displayed at all

[slate parrot]

or that

[placid dagger]

yea when I started a guy told me to check it out lmao

[humble nest]

Dudes were just giving me shit for saying that I can do that without being sniped, lol

[placid dagger]

but can you do it without getting drone bombed?

[pearl escarp]

not in wakistan

[slate parrot]

idk man by the time I get 40 rounds in I'm absolutely swamped by bullets

[royal sable]

Yes, just stand away from the juicier crowd 😂

I think I've only been targeted twice by a drone, and only one of them kill me. 😔

[placid dagger]

drone bomb is the only thing keeping me away from dusting off my trusty pickaxe

[royal sable]

I see suspicious missing brick I RPG it lol

[humble nest]

I think the heavy vehicle mounted hmg or apc autocannon should punch out single bricks like that all over the place

the exploding autocannon shells are lazy

[royal sable]

Let the manual turret smack bricks, but not the remote turret for balance 😂

[humble nest]

the manual turret is so much harder to use ;x

[brittle lichen]

Overall the feedback for this thread is that removing aim punch is best for the health of the game

and reserving it for milsim mode makes the most sense

[humble nest]

weird that it lines up with exactly what you want

[brittle lichen]

Ig I'm just that good 🤷

[gritty stream]

Okay I tried diet support

It's better than normal

But it's still a miserable experience

I have never felt so powerlessness and uncomfortable in this game

You just can't win

[humble nest]

diet support?

[gritty stream]

Normal armor, normal backpack, heavy helmet, lsg

[slate parrot]

normal packpack is bugged

big backpack is faster

for some reason

[placid dagger]

BIG backpack

[humble nest]

so lahrge

but yeah ive been fluctuating between the armors but always keep the exo helmet, negating the first two headshots is nice XD

[placid dagger]

enough to fit another wakistan bridge in it

[slate parrot]

I still think this is kinda unhealthy for the game

consistency in gunfights is a major thing

for feeling "fair"

[rich iris]

is that why i'm seeing so many hitmarkers with the fal on supports?

[slate parrot]

prolly

[rich iris]

i hate it.

hit armor 4 times with the fal on someone and almost alt-f4'd

[placid dagger]

now imagine my face when I land a headshot on a running support from 450 meters just to get blue hitmarkers 💀

[humble nest]

So, one sec

the way helmets appear to work is when they soak a shot, there's a percent chance they go bye bye, possibly based on the incoming damage but "usually" the exo head lasts one shot

the advantage of the exo head is it has the face shield so you typically dont get one tapped by a sniper

[placid dagger]

from my experience exo always absorbs one shot from a sniper

but the damage is still taken in full

so I get an assist counts as kill when that support dies

[humble nest]

ive certainly had people dump a lot of glock rounds into my face before they die

[rich iris]

yeah. i've done that a lot

[humble nest]

it could be that the exo helmet just negates the headshot bonus, who knows

[rich iris]

the base mag glock tends to have issues even getting through the support helmet

which is, w i l d

[placid dagger]

the assist counts as kill interaction would suggest otherwise no?

[rich iris]

i know it's a game but man, you'd be concussed 6 ways to sunday if you took 16 rounds to the head like that, even if the helmet stopped you from have a perforated dome

[placid dagger]

because sometimes I get assist bonuses of 50 or something if I hit an armored bodyshot (normally it's 71)

but not with exo headshots

[humble nest]

even at point blank range if you shoot someone in the head (before your damage bonus as a sniper goes up) its still a one shot, the only way it makes sense is if its negating the headshot damage or otherwise reducing it, or maybe there's some sort of armorpenetration calculationg going on

assist that counts as a kill is if you did like over 60% of a persons hp i think? idk

point being exo helmet is the only reason you can do anything as a support, lol

[placid dagger]

yeah they are noticeably slow

like from far away

[rich iris]

idk, i think there's too much focus on supports being designed to hold a lane and so they end up being very annoying to kill even when you catch them "out of position" (read that as: not holding a lane, sometimes sprinting)

[placid dagger]

but it gets a bit annoying when you manage to hit the little dot running across the screen to not get the neuron activation of a kill

[rich iris]

like, i shouldn't be losing a gun fight to a support because his helmet accounts for so much extra HP that it's not possible to kill him before he kills me

in a situation where we both sprinted into eachother

^that is the key statement here btw, i have nothing against a support smashing me for trying to challenge his killbox

[humble nest]

so just throwing this out there

I play a lot of support, if I catch you with my gun up at close range and you're my first guy and you stay in that fight, you lose

however

[fair summit]

It's 80 damage though idk if it counts damage to armor

[humble nest]

if you just, go right back around the corner you came from and start throwing grenades, I'm boned

if you're at longer than close ranges and just play smart, I'm boned

[rich iris]

i'd legit rather supports have better movement/ads speeds than have to deal with the jank armor ttk

[humble nest]

you just cant win that first fight after support spawns and they still have full armor unless you catch them with the gun down

[safe hamlet]

[humble nest]

tbh I think medic is too fast and support is too slow but I deal with it
I dont really care about supports combat speed, its just the "oh god it takes forever to get to the front" XD

if they lose flinch preventing return fire they're gonna need something else

and i'd rather them not turn into a small vehicles worth of hp that would turn silly fast XD

[weary garden]

it matters quite a lot when all of the more recent maps require you to take a 5 minute hike to get anywhere

by the time you reach any point in multu the fight ended 3 minutes ago

[humble nest]

my trick on those maps has been to hit the minimap and look at where all the dead bodies are so I can guess where they are heading next XD

[weary garden]

honestly though heavily dislike all the newer maps

district feels awful, wakistan is still as bad as ever, multu is still garbage to play in and is a sniper heaven, wine is too tight on C and too wide everywhere else

[humble nest]

The factory yard one could be fun but the perimeter snipers have too much visibility and the flank paths are hilarious

[placid dagger]

even as a sniper I don't like multu

the weird fog makes it hard to pick out who's who and the map is too wide so going from one point to another for fights is boring

[weary garden]

it feels like way too many maps suffer from the "area around C feels too close quarters, everything but C feels too spread apart to be worth going to"

so everyone flocks to C

[placid dagger]

fuck district, all my homies hate district

[fair summit]

Also the new maps for some reason have so much fucking foliage

Can't see shit

[weary garden]

that is also true

[fair summit]

Running two hundred meters to the next objective on multu

Only to get killed by some dude prone in the grass in the middle of nowhere

[humble nest]

i feel this

[weary garden]

yeah this is my biggest issue with these kinds of maps, I'd prefer if there were "bigger" maps with much larger objective radiuses than a map with 5km of nothing and 20m radius objectives

[fair summit]

Yup

[weary garden]

like, decrease multu size by 30%, add more buildings around the objectives and make the objective radius larger

[pastel shore]

They are literally just a raw hp modifier. Hp + helmet = total hp. Armor is removed first.

So a 28 hp helmet, being shot by 10 dmg gun, will absorb 2 hits, and the third will break the helmet and do some flesh damage

[humble nest]

idk man ive had my exo helmet eat multiple sniper shots unless it was a latiency issue

[zenith prairie]

Bear in mind that headshot damage applies to helmets.

[zenith prairie]

The helmet can only take one, but you can’t tell where you were hit. Sure there were no bodyshots involved?

[gritty stream]

New district is pretty enjoyable to ne

It's very tactical

Just moving from cover to cover picking out unsuspecting enemies

Like a predator

[weary garden]

it has way too much foliage, weather and fog to feel remotely enjoyable personally

[gritty stream]

Yeah you can't just sprint on it

This map is basically anti rush

And I'm utterly sick of SMG users

[brittle lichen]

Why?

[zenith prairie]

You know, I’m utterly sick of being shot in this game

every time I die im like “ugghhhhh guns again”

So frustrating

[gritty stream]

It's not very fun fighting a lean spamming dropshotting mess that presses every single movement key like they're playing dance dance revolution

While trying to get into your hitbox bcs for whatever reason enemy players in this game don't have collision

[zenith prairie]

That isn’t really related to the gun they use

[brittle lichen]

Yea^

[signal tangle]

do you just miss enough for these things to matter? the quick movement is the only thing that might be problematic but that's not really a SMG only thing. also, why in this thread?

[green dragon]

smg's offer better firerate, recoil, and movement so as a support you will not always have easy time against them.

[signal tangle]

that's just support in general? which is its own problem.

[green dragon]

yes that is true. support will naturally have disadvantages which will make anyone frustrated playing it

[fast thistle]

😆

Support does need a huge buff

[fast thistle]

vector mains use lean macros or doublebind lean to movement keys

[brittle lichen]

Or just spam it

Its not hard

[tawdry edge]

Next suggestion: make leaning slower/delayed to lessen this sort of thing.

[fast thistle]

the cope would taste SO good

[royal sable]

Mfw people can spam lean faster than my dmr can shoot 😂

[fair summit]

jusT aIM bEtteR dudE

[pastel shore]

Just aim at their dicks. If they're lean spamming, their legs are stationary

[fair summit]

i remember playing shooters that have damage multiplier bonuses for ball shots

great idea for BBR. except instead of ball shots, they should be cube shots 🤔

[pastel shore]

Only psychopaths aim for the cubes

[brittle lichen]

Wdym? Its all cubes

[humble nest]

if you get killed in the cubes your respawn time is doubled

[brittle lichen]

oh that'd be funny

[mint token]

Unironically, that's what I do.

[pastel shore]

Well, yea, it was actual, real advice, not trolling. Lean spamming like that generally has the legs being stationary(or very close to it)

[lofty harbor]

very good that they toned it down, but every now and then i lose a gunfight because of it and it pisses me off

[signal tangle]

I just aim for upper chest, it doesn't move enough to dodge, and their lean spamming means its more likely my HR will hit their head, if my VR doesn't already since the lower part of the head doesn't actually move that much.

[keen ocean]

This have the same energy and reasonings as, "aim for the arms/legs, there is no armour there"

[pastel shore]

also real advice, against supports

[signal tangle]

Yep^

[fair summit]

Leg meta is kinda silly honestly

[signal tangle]

eh not really.

[fair summit]

you don't find shooting at limbs for the optimal ttk in a fps game absurd?

most games encourage headshots

against a lean spamming sweat, that'll just get you killed

[tawdry edge]

ban lean-spamming

[fast thistle]

how? Nevermind, dont answer that in here.

[green dragon]

I believe that is a topic not for this channel.

[tawdry edge]

We can't create new feedback threads

[normal sluice]

There's a lean spam thread

[gritty stream]

Our prayers hav been answered, support is playable again

[signal tangle]

I mean yes, they do, but with armor, you can do more damage to them on the limbs, especially with a lower weapon. with having significantly better accuracy in a video game than irl, its actually feasible to do so, rather than basically being forced to shoot center mass(where the armor is). also that isn't optimal in anyway, and is was only meant to reference an exo armor user(support), heavy armor is pretty common to find and is easy enough to break with non-smgs. the lean spammers tend to be the light armor/ranger wearing people, so you don't need to target limbs.

[pastel shore]

Imo flinch is much better, but after a few days use, I think the hard hitting weapons (Groza, ak12, fal, scar, dmrs) should have their aim punch reduced more.

The value around 27 damage feels enough to not hinder in 99% fights, but can still be used to harass snipers long range. That value should be applied to all weapons as an upper limit

[tight charm]

Still don't like aim punch as a mechanic even when reduced. It's not fun to die to a fight you could have potentially recovered and successfully countered because a stat in the game determines whether you get full control of your mouse or not.

[signal tangle]

Do you actually feel it anymore? I haven't noticed it in any fight unless I'm using at minimum a 4x.

[tight charm]

Yes and I'm always using a red dot. I wouldn't comment about aim punch if it was meaningless. It loses you gunfights.

[royal sable]

I find it's better/mostly negligible atm with short ranged scopes. And long range still punches decent enough.

[tight charm]

And I'm saying this as someone that goes for kills and engagements. I don't sit back using a scar or something.

[royal sable]

Works OK when I use the rds. It's not like I'm doing long shots when them.

[signal tangle]

I have yet to feel it change an outcome since the update, using acogs and various short range sights, unless I'm trying to fight it at long range and I'm using a higher magnification. Hell even with the acog/m125 its not moving my aim much at all, Unless I'm shooting beyond 150 meters the flinch wont even momentarily move me off target with the majority of weapons I use. though I can't speak for the DMRs and the much later level ARs.

[tight charm]

Kill more people and then have an encounter where you're shot at first but have the better aim and are just about to recover and kill the person and then die because your reticle won't listen to your mouse. Aim punch is still in the game, I promise you. It's not as bad as it once was but yes it's still a thing.

[signal tangle]

it is in the game but it can be countered... your mouse can still effect where you are aiming while being "punched".

[royal sable]

It's not as bad as it once was but yes it's still a thing
That was the whole point of the balance pass lol

It's a lot more acceptable imo now

[signal tangle]

might be hardware issue instead? I got a significantly better mouse than my 15 dollar one, and suddenly I could counter even the old aimpunch because it detected movement better, with the new aim punch its hardly more than recoil when I get hit.

[tight charm]

It can't be "countered". It's an RNG mechanic to make your aim literally worse. Anyway, I'm giving my feedback. I still don't care for the mechanic and it's still not fun.

If you like it, great.

[signal tangle]

...it is hardly worse than some guns recoil, you are really blowing it out of proportion.

[tight charm]

By calling it not fun I'm blowing it out of proportion? lol.

[signal tangle]

your saying you lose fights because of it, when its basically just recoil of a ak-15/scar at worst. its easily counterable in cqc and doesn't really effect anyone at that range anymore. It just sounds like you are not willing to learn how to play around something and rather have the game conform to you instead.

[rich iris]

it's not counterable. there's video proof of it being totally random which way it jumps

it's gotten me killed more than a handful of times in the ~50 hours i've played since the flinch update

[royal sable]

that said the number of videos per day has dropped since the change

[rich iris]

ofc, it's not overwhelming like it was

[royal sable]

yeah it's just a handful, compared to like dime a dozen times from before

[rich iris]

but even in the last hour i lost a 1v4 because my last flick landed on the left side of the guys chest and the aim punch sent me slightly further left so i was missing by a few pixels

[royal sable]

a 1v4.... bruh

[rich iris]

i mean, 1 guy reviving, 1 guy being revived (dies instantly) 1 guy in the middle of bandaging, last guy runs into room as i start killing the bandaging guy

so i kill the first 3 nbd, and then lose the only "gunfight" in the room because of flinch

feelsalittlebadman (esp with how much running simulator this game can be sometimes)

like, it's not affecting EVERY gunfight to an almost overwhelming degree. but it's still kindaaaaaa lame and i'd just rather not have to deal with it

i'm too old to be accounting for something moving my aim in a timeframe that can be measured in frames

[tight charm]

I'm not saying literally every fight I'm losing because of it. I'm giving a concrete situation in which it sometimes happens and where its most noticeable: in those 1v1 fights where someone shoots at you first, but they whif or somehow you outplay them but you cannot control your aim because of aim punch and so you lose what could have been recoverable. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does its really shit and not fun. That's all.

[signal tangle]

and I'm saying that it changes you aim as much as an ak-15 or scar does per shot at worst. you can control your aim still and unless you are just standing there and trying to use are magnified scope or not seeking cover/at least stay moving you can easily recover in cqc.

[rich iris]

with how fast the ttk is you can 100% be put in an unrecoverable position by the aim punch. just because it doesn't define EVERY gunfight now doesn't mean it's gone. and the worst thing is that it's most noticeable when you are shot first and try to turn the fight back in your favor

[signal tangle]

the problem you are having here is that trying to spin on someone already shooting at you is not the best idea. it seems more like you just want to get shot, and then turn on someone already shooting you. You need to learn to reposition and not try and take a fight like that unless there is no other choice. its less the aim punch and more that you cannot figure out that trying to turn on someone like that is gonna lose you the fight more often than not, even without aim punch.

[rich iris]

if i did nothing but stand still it wouldn't be a conversation about the flinch because i would've died before flinch mattered

[signal tangle]

so you are losing a fight that last longer than just both of you running face first into one another. there are way to many variables to even say that aim punch was why you died then.

You problems sound like positioning and lack of recoil control, and not the aim punch system.

[rich iris]

your problems sound like you're a condescending jackass who thinks they perfectly control a RANDOM flinch system but i'll humor you. NO, the problem is that i repositioned after forcing a guy to miss his next 3 shots even though we're damn near pointblank but because i'm not a human aimbot my aim isn't dead center of his chest and flinch pushed me off target. NOW, i could have lost the gunfight without the flinch, maybe the server thinks i'm already dead, all i can do is play till i am dead on my screen. if my crosshair ends up pushed off target by a system that i have no control over it's ALWAYS going to feel shitty and feel like i got cheated out of a kill. i can't see my targets hp, maybe he had 50 hp left. maybe only 1 bullet registered server side even though i dumped half a mag into him before i died (this happens entirely too fucking often as well but not the point) but if my aim is at any point affected by the rng (given that it could have just as easily flinched me towards the center of his chest) it's never going to feel good and i'm against skill reductions in the game

[signal tangle]

your the one getting pissed off that you can't control what is essentially basic recoil.

[rich iris]

where's your clips of you correcting pre-nerf flinch

you're the weirdo who thought that was controllable aren't you

[signal tangle]

It wasn't bad at point blank, mostly because I just hipfired, changed my mouse and it wasn't that big of a deal, dealt with a lot worse over the years. second, we are talking about it now bud. it's basic recoil, if your complaining about this you might as well complain about the whole recoil system as it stands.

[rich iris]

ahhh it was you. nah you're not worth conversing with. i must've forgot to block you because you got memed out of the channel for having such a god awful take.

[signal tangle]

aimpunch doesn't effect hipfire bud. not in any noticeable way. Don't see how that is a "garbage" take. funnily enough, you were the one chased out of the channel back then.

[tight charm]

A gun's recoil is different. In battlebit it's easy, you just pull down. And the recoil is deterministic. You know it's going to happen every time you shoot and the pattern of the recoil and so you do something about it. But flinch is completely random, both the "recoil" and when it happens. And so this is a bullshit random mechanic that takes away your control as a player in the middle of a random encounter. It's not fun.

you can control your aim still
Keep in mind the whole point of aim punch is to remove your ability to control your aim. Its literally the mechanic's point.

[rich iris]

don't bother. he was saying it was controllable and you just needed to correct it a few weeks ago before someone posted multiple clips showing just how bad the flinch was and then he disappeared from the channel

[tight charm]

It's definitely my last reply to them.

[signal tangle]

the jumping of some weapons say otherwise bud. and it doesn't take control away because you can still correct.

[signal tangle]

I said it didn't matter at point blank ranges, because hipfire would be more effective at those ranges. which you tried to counter by saying you would always when a fight at that distance by aiming with a vector, which is why you were laughed of the channel.

[green dragon]

implying you can control the ak15
we did it we solved aimpunch

[fast thistle]

I think Battlebit should take inspiration from Squad's Infantry Combat Overhaul when it comes to aimpunch and suppression.

[lofty harbor]

or just remove it completely

[tepid jasper]

Some type of suppression could be cool but not that much

[scarlet latch]

There needs to be some type of flinchin when u get shot it’s dumb how u immediately turn around if haven’t got head shot them an blast them

[rich iris]

it's dumb that you can beat worse opponents if they don't instantly kill you?

[scarlet latch]

If I unload a full clip into someone’s chest an all they got to do is sprint away then shoot the game is broken . Had somebody have the drop on me I sprinted into a building got around an shot him

[fair summit]

you didn't unload a full clip into someone's chest then lol

if you did, they'd be dead

[rich iris]

^

[fair summit]

but since they aren't, you clearly missed most of your shots

[rich iris]

use the ak15 and 3 hit everything while inflicting more flinch than they inflict to you

[scarlet latch]

Ur misunderstanding some one shot at me an I was able to get them felt dirty

[rich iris]

they shouldn't have missed then

[placid dagger]

Getting the first shot on someone is already a huge advantage lmao

If someone is able to turn around and kill you after you got the drop on them with ttk this low it's your own fault

[fast thistle]

Look this amazing suppression mechanic, with something like this aimpunch isnt even necessairy.

Battlebit should introduce this.

[rich iris]

i don't normally respond to people i've blocked but bruh i am bored and i really just don't understand, wtf is you peoples problem with being able to fucking see? "oh this suppression is perfect! he dies while totally unable to see his enemy not just because of the awful weapon sway BUT ALSO his screen blurs to the point he can't see things 2 feet in front of him!"

why? why do you want this? why do you hate being able to see? at what point does that look fun?

why do you people want aim punch? why do you want your shit to move without you interacting with it? (and want it to move COUNTER to the things you'd want it to do?!)

go play a game with jigsaw or something. that's the appropriate amount of punishment you psychos want for simple tasks for some reason

[rich iris]

to further expand on this (i'm really just astounded and incredibly bored). i haven't been to the range in prolly a decade, even MY weapon handling is better than what i just witnessed in that game. we just making games about sending joe shmoe to the frontlines with no training now? i thought these were trained soldiers who were drilled and can handle a firearm. not fire it and then need 3-4 business days to resettle the weapon.

fucker shoulder fires it, aiming down his irons, and lets it swing like one man operating a fire hose. i'm GLAD battlebit doesn't play like that. cause i'd be gone in an instant.

[fast thistle]

He is sprinting across an open field, is fired upon by an opponent ~50 meters away, is suppressed and responds with a full auto spray before even steadying his aim.

No amount of training would affect the outcome of that scenario. But a trained soldier wouldnt find themselves in that scenario to begin with.

[placid dagger]

Ah yes roblox battlefield to simulate real life war

[rich iris]

i'm no soldier, so idk if being shot at makes my eyes stop working or not, i'll trust actual vets to answer that. but video games are supposed to be fun lad

tbh i think they have a lot of things to fix before they go breaking already functional mechanics, like aiming/seeing. like the absurd desync

im bout fuckin sick of landing 4-5 shots on unarmored bodies and not getting a kill

[placid dagger]

or the magnification on scopes being broken for people that play with different FOVs

comments like this just goes to show that people don't really consider the game's current pace when making suggestions