Flinch / Aim Punch - Feedback

[stoic terrace]

yeah but catdude is the biggest waste of air on this dc

[crimson palm]

Has nothing to do with aim punch

[placid dagger]

also I'm not the one going into separate threads to complain about people not agreeing with me lmao

[stoic terrace]

unfortunatly not :/

[green dragon]

man yall are wilding hard

[fast thistle]

Youre part of the band of trolls trying to derail discussions in here. Your opinion isnt noted.

Alright ill do that when i get home.

[solid thistle]

[fast thistle]

My initial suggestion where i made it extremely clear that i want to reduce aimpunch across the board, this fact is ignored by the trolls who want to buff the vector:
#1133360306278645810 message

See the section "The aim of tweaking aimpunch"
#1133360306278645810 message

(If aimpunch is removed completely the vector trolls would still have the competitive edge due to the non-existent recoil and extremely high fire rate of the vector.
But if you look at what they have been writing outside of spamming clown emotes and strawmanning my arguments, the whole reason they are annoyed with aimpunch and cant handle removing or greatly reducing aimpunch on SMG's and maintaining a little bit more aimpunch on weapons that have a longer range, slower ADS time and more recoil is because;
if they unload a full mag on an enemy and miss every shot (because they aren't skilled at the game) they run the risk of the enemy turning around, supressing them, hitting them and then they get affected by aimpunch. Which of course punishes them when they are playing the game like it's an arcade shooter)

I also tried to reason with them and be constructive by suggesting a compromise that leaves both sides (the normal people and the troll brigade) happy: #1133360306278645810 message

So all in all, look at who is actually trying to have a constructive discussion and trying to come up with solutions that would leave both sides happy with the game. Look at who is using intellectual dishonest, logical fallacies and strawmen and who is taking their time constructing an actual argument.

Look at who is spamming and burying qualitative suggestions, look at who is using the clown reacts to coordinate targeted harassment.
It's always the same people, regardless if it's this thread or the vector thread.

[fleet pond]

It's crazy that he still can't do it without being super condescending, lol

[placid dagger]

He's overcompensating

[stoic terrace]

you pissed on me while i tried getting this thread back on topic, you and -E- where the ones who derailed the thread and now you're butthurt, seething your lil' reddit nuts of

good grief

[placid dagger]

The way he attempts to gaslight as if he's the one who's being civil and the big meanies are the ones who keep posting low tier pseudointellectual rants that derail threads all the while in the same breath talking about intellectual dishonesty and strawmanning is crazy.

[placid dagger]

Exactly this

He got so mad that a group of people thought his behaviour and ideas were utter garbage that he started insulting everyone who had the smallest disagreement with him

[sharp cloak]

Not sure the cause of this but I feel like it belongs in this thread. Furthermore, screen shake should not be a thing. Yeah having some wont hurt, but this much? The setting is at 0 and I still experiance so much screen shake its nauseating

[unborn frigate]

I havent played in a couple days but I feel like I dont have that

[stoic terrace]

that's not aimpunch just some weird ads mechanics

[sharp cloak]

I get that bro

[stoic terrace]

wdym then?

[placid dagger]

Looks like a bug tbh

[sharp cloak]

this thread is basically on the topic of screenshake

so why not post it here for a mod to see

[placid dagger]

screenshake is different than aim punch/flinch though

[sharp cloak]

its the same thing....

[placid dagger]

it also looks like a bug so might be more productive if you post it in the bugs thread

[sharp cloak]

its in there as well

[placid dagger]

cool

[final olive]

Screen shake doesn't change where your bullets are coming from, it just messes with the camera

Aim punch detaches your aim point from where bullers are being fired

[royal sable]

it's not lmao

else i'd post your mum's walking shaking the screen in the thread

[pastel shore]

Should be it's own topic, but camera shake/head bounce should be reduced or altered.

The top implementation(crosshair jumps up/down), can cause motion sickness and is often disorenting. The 2nd is much closer to how humans compensate IRL, and works much better on screen. Otherwise, disabling/removing it helps a ton.

Most games do the quick/easy way and implement it as the top option, which is how it is done in BB.

Some interesting discussion on how star citizen handled this
https://youtu.be/_7GG0y8Jmcs?t=12m

[hot dawn]

head bob gives me motion sickness

[rich iris]

there actually is a setting in options to turn the screenshake off, it's a slider

doesn't do anything for aim punch but atleast you don't have to deal with that nauseating shit

[pastel shore]

It doesn't reduce it much, I think it reduces some headbob but all other camera shake is untouched, and there's a ton of it

[rich iris]

hm, maybe i just stopped noticing it at some point

[sharp cloak]

do u know how to read?

I said its at 0

[turbid bane]

what's happening in erupt's clips is something completely different and is a bug, similar thing occurs in roblox bad business

[zenith prairie]

I'm a bit confused on what you mean by this. Would this mean that jumping wouldn't affect your ability to aim at all?

[turbid bane]

in bad business the screen shake is part of the vaulting animation and also when landing from a fall, and for some reason with uneven terrain it triggers the shaking to happen when ADSing while on non-flat ground, it can happen even with the slightest unnoticeable bump on the ground and it'll make your screen bounce all over the place which you have no control over

[pastel shore]

It would, this is just for camera stabilization specific to head bob and screen shake. It basically makes it so the edge of your screen still shakes properly, but everything doesn't jump up/down. Think about it like your eyes rotating in your head as you walk. When you jump, your gun would still point down towards the ground(like it does now), and your view would shift when jumping, but not during regular screen shake or headbobbing. It's a much more practical way of emulating how we operate IRL, so it doesn't cause the same disorientation that regular screen shake/head bob normally does. Just moving the entire camera up and down like in the top implementation screws with your eyes/brain, similar to how blurs can cause some people eye strain, as their eyes think they are unfocused and constantly try to focus, wearing them out quickly

[zenith prairie]

ok

[torn moth]

Aim flinching is inconsistent, and needs to change. it should absolutely be based on the caliber of weapon you are hit with, and what level of armor you have to counter it.

[zenith prairie]

hmm. armour affecting it is a new idea, haven't heard that yet

[stoic terrace]

a lot of people suggested it before

but also a lot just say to outright remove the mechanic

[normal sluice]

...in the future casual mode thats been talked about...

The current game is the casual mode. Milsim comes later and will have more "hardcore" mechanics.

These "hardcore" mechanics is what gives battlebit a unique identity considering the simple graphics that draws comparisons to games intended for younger audiences...Therefore aimpunch should NOT be removed entirely

BB is already unique enough in it's destruction and feel. Phantom Forces, Arsenal, Ravenfield, and Unturned do not play anywhere near the same universe as this game. Flinch exists in other games. It's not a standout, "I want to play the game for this" mechanic. Keeping a widely criticized (yes, other games Cod, Apex, R6, PS2) mechanic for the sake of uniqueness is not good game design.

Giving some of the underused weapons a competitive edge compared to the meta.

I do agree that flinch may tip a fight in someone's favor, but whose favor that is, is too random when it counts. RNG is not a substitute when number tweaking is sufficient for balance. In an aim duel scenario where both parties shoot at the same time aim should be the deciding factor. Flinch, even if reduced, takes away control of the player in such a frustrating way. This is the reason the Toughness perk in Black Ops 2 was mandatory unless you were doing something cheeky.

Making the severely limited...loadout choices...have something more going for it... Making unlocking new weapons and attachments interesting

There are much more interesting and less frustrating ways of handling this. The current attachments leave a lot to be desired and are getting reworked(?, pretty sure this was true) eventually. There's so much more room for diversity in loadouts than adding an inherently aggravating and divisive mechanic.

[grand mortar]

its just one line of code oki

please just remove it

or just dont have it be random please

[fair summit]

Hats off for actually engaging with this guy seriously

[normal sluice]

I just like to talk about game design

[stoic terrace]

actually BASED

[final olive]

I mean from a physics point of view armor should increase aim punch not reduce it.

[grand mortar]

why did oki make it random 😭

[normal sluice]

uh how is this possible

[grand mortar]

i got a modded client

[green dragon]

ye dude let me pair the shitty aim punch with high ping what could go wrong? Players can't counter strafe? No problem

[grand mortar]

flinch is entirely rng btw

should be a fixed value / removed / or based on the calibre of the enemies gun

[pearl escarp]

nice find

[analog kiln]

lol, that reminds of a guy who posted on this feedback that he could 100% predict aim punch and compensate for it mid gunfight.

yeah GL doing that on a random directional modifier lol

[safe hamlet]

make it add to recoil instead of totally random ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pearl escarp]

till this day im still not sure to make of what the aim punch should be like

ive definitely been on the receiving end of it and i do feel frustrated

[placid dagger]

probably because it just should not be a thing

[pearl escarp]

but a full removal also feels like a very knee jerk reaction

idk

[safe hamlet]

aimpunch is just extra punishment for getting hit. solution: don't get hit

[pearl escarp]

i think it should be substituted with something else

but im still not sure with what

[placid dagger]

suppression has been suggested but that's not well liked either

[pearl escarp]

man if only aim punch was a camera effect and doesnt actually fuck up ur aim

[safe hamlet]

or at least make the gun move together with the camera so shots actually go where the crosshair is instead of still going in the middle of the screen, outside the scope

[placid dagger]

if a camera effect would do you can use blurring or blackening on the screen or something but I doubt people would enjoy that either considering health is also conveyed that way

I'm not sure whether we need a flinch substitute

Is it really needed?

[safe hamlet]

dark borders is already in as suppression effect

[pearl escarp]

i mean we can take examples from other games

[placid dagger]

that's what I was referencing

[pearl escarp]

in some games, being shot at will slow down ur movement

but i think thatll cause more problems

[placid dagger]

would appreciate if you didn't use "some games"

[pearl escarp]

DRG, CSGO

[placid dagger]

the game you are looking at is important

[pearl escarp]

to name a few

but yeah not really a good substitute for something more fast paced

kills momentum (literally and figuratively)

[placid dagger]

CS:GO has vastly different pace, enemy count etc.

so slowing down upon being shot won't fit BBR

[green dragon]

halo 4 also did it, it's an infuriating mechanic. Would especially suck here where there's constant fire at multiple angles everywhere

[final olive]

I mean you can have punch if it only moves camera NOT your aimpoint. As it is it desyncs aim from your sight so you can't compensate

[pearl escarp]

this would be the perfect middleground / compromise imo

it still conveys the visual that ur getting shot

[safe hamlet]

tagging and flinch would incentivize not getting caught out in the open more, which I think would make the game flow better

[pearl escarp]

but ur aim isnt getting fucked by it

[final olive]

Would make tracking harder under fire, but not make your aim move directly

[placid dagger]

low ttk is already an incentive to not get caught in the open

I don't think we need an actual tag or flinch mechanic for anything other than snipers

[safe hamlet]

what I'm saying doesn't really apply to point blank range tbh, I mean more in the open fields where ttk is longer due to range inaccuracy

[placid dagger]

flinch is arguable on snipers since they can get a bit too strong in mid range without it

[safe hamlet]

whatever happens in cqb, low ttk won't make flinch matter that much

[placid dagger]

it makes it matter even more

[pearl escarp]

i'd argue it does

[placid dagger]

since if you even miss a single shot in CQB you die

[safe hamlet]

that also apply to your enemy, mind

[pearl escarp]

have lost some winnable battles due to the crosshair moving to brazil when being shot

[placid dagger]

you have less time to "compensate" for flinch

[placid dagger]

exactly why it's a shitty mechanic

it applies for both parties but in different amounts because of the randomness

[safe hamlet]

different amount? no

[placid dagger]

there are videos of this exact thing somewhere in the thread

[placid dagger]

my brother in christ flinch rn is random

it almost has no chance of applying in the same amount

[safe hamlet]

nvm

[pastel shore]

I'd honestly rather the bullets just keep going towards middle of screen

[placid dagger]

lmao

[pearl escarp]

man i wish i brushed up on my c#

[pastel shore]

it's honestly just better to not have aim punch

excluding snipers, the game played so well before it was implemented, during the playtests. No one was bothered by it not being there, that gunplay is what got the game so hyped up in the first plce

[pearl escarp]

iirc csgo also has aimpunch, but it only happens if u have no armor

maybe an idea for a mechanic

[placid dagger]

Even is csgo where aim punch applies only when you don't have armor people still dislike aim punch

it's simply not a fun mechanic to play with

[safe hamlet]

it's an incentive to get armor. you already don't get flinch if your armor absorbs the hit

[placid dagger]

except right now you don't have a way to replenish lost armor

[safe hamlet]

that could be added yes

[placid dagger]

csgo has an economy system tied to armor

[pearl escarp]

if its added

a really big if

[placid dagger]

it shouldn't be

[pearl escarp]

i have no idea what the devs are planning to do

[placid dagger]

support or assault should be able to replenish armor

[safe hamlet]

devs are aware that they need to have a way to replenish armor in one of their dev streams

[placid dagger]

but that's for another thread

[pearl escarp]

give it to assault

[pastel shore]

tying it to armor won't help. Even if you could replenish armor, that's still only 1-2 bullets where you aren't aim punched. MOST of your HP will be aim punchable, and even if not, you'd still have to take even MORE additional time to reset, now you have to bandage, replenish HP, replenish armor... all just to STILL GET AIM PUNCHED

[pearl escarp]

support already has ammokit

the armor idea might be nice though

the aimpunch though..

it has to be replaced with some other visual cue

[fast thistle]

Why wouldn't i be? You're proving my every critique true and you don't stop.

[placid dagger]

I'd say you already have enough visual cues to understand you are getting shot at if that's what you mean

and from where

[pearl escarp]

eh true

i wish i played the playtest more

didnt really get a proper feel for the gun mechanic

maybe i would be more opposed to it if i were idk

[fast thistle]

Actual good take.

[pearl escarp]

im just kinda used to it

let me spitball an idea

what if flinch/aimpunch only occurs on headshots

[placid dagger]

that was suggested in one of walk's posts

[pearl escarp]

what was the consensus

[placid dagger]

IIRC people who want aim punch to stay didn't like it

people who don't want aim punch were a mix between "eh sure" and "just fucking remove it"

[fast thistle]

Thanks for being one of the few people to post an actual on-topic, valid critique, I respect that.

[safe hamlet]

I do wish armor apply evenly instead of just being an extra health bar that always depletes before health. more like csgo armor. replenishing becomes less of an issue, and it can offer protection for longer for the same drawbacks. that way flinch depending on armor would make sense more

[placid dagger]

except most of his points were already told to you by other people before you condescendingly insulted them for not agreeing with your shitty suggestion

thanks for proving that you are indeed a brainless clown

[pearl escarp]

im leaning towards the "eh sure" group here

[fast thistle]

Now if only the trolls did that, then they wouldn't be trolls.

[pearl escarp]

if its gone its fine i guess

[fast thistle]

Why are you still trying to address me if you blocked me? Cant keep yourself from clicking "show message" right?

Bad impulse control and low self-esteem. Not looking good buddy.

[placid dagger]

because you suck mr self react

I click show message just to clown react to you

[fast thistle]

Only reason he blocked me is because he's afraid of the clown reacts he's throwing around himself 🤡

[fast thistle]

Such a self-report.

[placid dagger]

I was waiting for you to be a disingenuous cunt and use his goodwill to gaslight

[fast thistle]

Oh my, using the big words now aren't you?

[placid dagger]

how is it a self report if it literally shows when you hover lmao go away dumbass

[placid dagger]

I mean they have a point

[fast thistle]

Me gaslighting you isn't real buddy. You might feel gaslit though, but that's none of my concern.

[placid dagger]

at that point do we really need aim punch to be in?

[pearl escarp]

im fine with whichever

as long as they dont make the aimpunch even more annoying

[fast thistle]

@placid dagger

[fast thistle]

Yeah it should be tuned down across the board, and ofc removing it completely from the vector.

[safe hamlet]

ehh remove completely, for one specific weapon, doesn't sound like a good idea

[fast thistle]

It should be removed for weapons such as those with 0 recoil and 1200 rpm. Low calibre SMG's for example.
Here's the links to the full suggestion:
#1133360306278645810 message

[safe hamlet]

I don't agree with complete removal, at most a reduction to half of what intermediate rifles would be is good enough for a start. vector can be nerfed in other ways

[fast thistle]

Based.
Yeah there are other ways of nerfing the vector. Adding recoil, limit its effective range. Loads of things.
This would be one way of nerfing the vector that's related to the topic of aimpunch.

(if they clown react you, you know you've won the debate)

They have 0 arguments against my suggestions.

[safe hamlet]

flinch could be a good feedback, relatively better than the blood health overlay, to how much damage you're taking at a time if it scales with damage taken

[keen ocean]

Idk if star citizen is a good source of options. Totally hotch potch of spagetti code and bad fps expirience. Ships are amazing tho

[pastel shore]

It's got it's issues, but for that specific topic they did well. I think it's about the one thing that nearly every FPS messes up and it's why everyone hates aimbob and screen shake so much

[keen ocean]

After watching this video I want to play SC again...

[oak jolt]

someone tell me how this is fair

[placid dagger]

It is not

[turbid bane]

you're single firing with a close range rifle as if it were a dmr at a range where you can full auto with a red dot if your aim is good enough

[grand mortar]

hit rotation set to up and multiplier set to 2.

would this be more fair as its more predictable?

[oak jolt]

even if I was full auto I would have gotten aimpunch fucked lol

[turbid bane]

yeah the aim punch is the issue in that clip

[oak jolt]

the aimpunch on mid range scopes is actually unbearable

[plush plover]

this is funny as fuck

[pastel shore]

can you add a target to the videos, as well as a crosshair at center of screen so we can more easily compare how the two different implementations look and act?

kinda difficult to see just ads at a wall

[grand mortar]

one sec

[placid dagger]

looks like your aim isn't totally fucked, but can you record a video of you shooting at a target while getting hit?

[turbid bane]

if you took less time and just sprayed as fast as possible you could've aimpunched him first and won the fight, so yeah aim punch is not good

[normal sluice]

Yeah this is nice. Maybe it's just because I'm on my phone but I can't see much crosshair movement but it also lets you know you're hit

[grand mortar]

i have it set to cntrl + b to activate the effect let me see if i can change it

[plush plover]

u gotta have precognitive abilites man and u just have to know that hes there and start shooting first

[placid dagger]

Funnily enough this is what a guy basically said in this thread lmao

[oak jolt]

I mean yeah that's just "win the gunfight" but i have repeatedly won gunfights while on semi auto as well lol

sort of why I was stuck semi auto there but I really didn't expect the aimpunch to be THAT drastic hence I clipped it

[pearl escarp]

this looks good

[plush plover]

i dont doubt it one bit man

[pearl escarp]

screen defo doesnt shake as much

[normal sluice]

There's no compensating for that lmao
It's like someone's slapping your gun away

[turbid bane]

to be fair i really don't see the point going semi auto on g36c, it's supposed to be a spray and pray weapon with its low accuracy and 2nd best firerate out of all the ars

[turbid bane]

that looks way more reasonable than current aimpunch implementation

[pearl escarp]

sorry for asking more, but what does this look like with a midrange scope

[normal sluice]

Oh my...my goodness

[turbid bane]

you get just enough feedback to feel you're getting hit

[grand mortar]

fixed values so its way better

[placid dagger]

It looks way better but a little nauseating

[grand mortar]

let me check

[pearl escarp]

less annoying to deal with 100%

[pastel shore]

it still looks pretty awful, ngl. Better than what we have now but not by much. Still makes it feel like it'll be better not to aim for headshots which imo is a big problem

[turbid bane]

it's less nauseating than the current one, only giving it a lengthy cooldown or removing it will solve that

[normal sluice]

The desync between center of screen and reticle really fucks aimpunch in this game. How is the gun independent from your aim?

[grand mortar]

what would be a better solution?

[oak jolt]

spraying with midrange is a bit difficult plus I am much more comfortable tap firing anyway

[pearl escarp]

well from what ive seen, there is

• slight tweak
• full removal
• make it tied to armor/health/caliber

[placid dagger]

how much work would implementing a cooldown on it would take?

[turbid bane]

that's the thing, i'd never use a med scope on g36, i'd recommend any other ar (besides famas), but if you enjoy it then it's all fine

[oak jolt]

ill spray it if I'm using the canted sights but the recoil is a bit much to control on a midrange sight

[oak jolt]

realistically it was just unfortunate weapon choice for the clip because I was trying shit out lol

[pearl escarp]

interesting

[grand mortar]

this is 2x multiplier instead of 5x(base game) btw

[pearl escarp]

i only just noticed that there is barely (or if any) horizontal sway

[pastel shore]

really think just removing it would be better. One thing I'm noticing is that it looks like the bullets will still go towards center of screen, instead of towards where the crosshair is showing. Otherwise, pure vertical aimpunch like this could wind up just kicking the shots into someones head, which means going for head is just bad gameplay and you'd want to aim upper chest incase you get aim punched.

[grand mortar]

yeh removing it seems better

[fast thistle]

Exactly

[pastel shore]

How does it react to leaning? Does it kick at a diagonal then, or still straight up?

[fast thistle]

Its not worth it. Dont go down that dark road.

[grand mortar]

should state that the game build im using is ~2 months old

[grand mortar]

still straight up

camera doesnt rotate so that makes sense as i only applied it to go up

[pearl escarp]

what if the aimpunch or flinch effect is more similar akin to minecraft, where the screen just slightly rotates (screen doesnt move up or down or sideways)?

[grand mortar]

lemme try that

[pastel shore]

ya that's what I assumed. idk this just makes me lean more towards removing it completely tbh

[safe hamlet]

the player camera and the gun isn't linked, I bet if you freelook and get flinch it'll still go up anyway

well now this thread is now "get muj to try stuff out"

mods are a good way to showcase changes, ig

[pearl escarp]

id say at most if they want to keep any semblance of aimpunch, it should just be a camera effect and doesnt affect aim

or you know, remove it

[pastel shore]

yea, this is probably the single best way to actually go about this

muj MVP

[pearl escarp]

i tip my hat off to you sir

[placid dagger]

muj the GOAT 🐐

[dawn onyx]

this is definitely better

[grand mortar]

c&d incoming fr

[dawn onyx]

one of my biggest problems with bullet flinch rn is that it makes headglitches exetremly op

cause even if you can hit the small part of their head showing it's impossible with flinch

[pearl escarp]

wait

does the bullet come from your head rather than the gun

[normal sluice]

When you ads yes

[dawn onyx]

when you ads it comes more from your head

your gun is higher up i guess

[pearl escarp]

i see

[dawn onyx]

so it might still be kinda from the gun

[normal sluice]

The bullets come from the barrel when hipfiring but when you ads it seems to spawn from your camera

[safe hamlet]

not exactly center though. you still get blocked if you have something in front of your face even if your crosshair is clear

[normal sluice]

I was gunna make a video about how turning the camera actually changes the direction your bullets go when hipfiring. They actually don't go to the center of your screen like any other game would

[pastel shore]

yea it doesn't come from center, it still comes from barrel. Barrel is just much closer to your eyes.

[safe hamlet]

it's similar to squad and insurgency sandstorm in that way yep. it goes in a circle around your center of screen, a laser makes it obvious

[normal sluice]

This is very slightly true. I've tested with medium range scopes and the reticle is nearly on the obstacle when it gets blocked

It's incredibly close

[pastel shore]

yea it's a bit weird, it's like tarkov and insurgency in that sense. You can get pretty good with it but have to be really aware of how you are turning when you go to aim

[pearl escarp]

on that note, i kinda wish we have more AO to have more sense of how close your gun is to the wall

[normal sluice]

Yeah when I first started I was wondering why hipfiring felt so bad but I went into the range to test for a while and figured it out. I thought the gun sway was cosmetic like any other game. Never played tarkov but I don't remember that being a thing in insurgency. It's been years tho

[pearl escarp]

you go too close and your gun will be raised and wont be able to shoot

it doesnt help that most of the textures in the game are flat

[pastel shore]

yea it is. In old insurgency, there was even a "dead zone" as you aimed where your gun would move, but not the camera. Luckily, they did eventually add an option to remove that because it was jarring and very annoying

[safe hamlet]

yeah, and gun will gradually get pushed up closer into your body until your char puts it away the closer you get to the obstacle

[normal sluice]

Putting a laser on the side drastically improved my hipfiring...even if it doesn't actually show up on player models for some reason

[pearl escarp]

ah this

i lowkey kinda liked it

also fuck sinjar

[normal sluice]

No way! Maybe I disabled it but it's been years and I can't remember.

[placid dagger]

yea this is seriously annoying when trying to peak a sandbag etc.

[safe hamlet]

aim deadzone seems like a pretty standard feature of the more slower games

[pastel shore]

hah, insurgency was def not a slow game

[pearl escarp]

it was decently fast paced

[safe hamlet]

slower, I said

[normal sluice]

Idk I played it like CoD

[pastel shore]

ya you could go fucking nuts in that game with a fast, aggressive playstyle. really fun game

[uncut granite]

My short opinion to this: Worst thing in the game, makes defending agains high firerate weapons impossible

[pearl escarp]

i had a supressed deagle while running without armor, which guarantees a ohk or a 2shot kill (while running fast af)

[grand mortar]

roll rotation (10 degrees to the left i think)

[pearl escarp]

yea boii rotate that shit

i kinda like this one

(im a bit biased towards my own opinion ofc)

[pastel shore]

holy shit that made me motion sick in literally 3 seconds flat

[normal sluice]

Its a bit jarring. Could you lower it?

[pastel shore]

I couldn't even finish both vids

[grand mortar]

yes

what degree would be less jarring?

ill try 5

[normal sluice]

Slower? And the rotation amount cut in half ig

[pastel shore]

wow I was honestly not expecting that

[normal sluice]

Same. It legitimately hurt a bit

[grand mortar]

idk if i can slow it down idk where that is

[safe hamlet]

are you able to change the recovery speed? probably on the player camera object/script

[pearl escarp]

maybe constrict how far it rotates(?)

[normal sluice]

I wish I could help but I've only ever written a text based blackjack game in python when I was testing Adderall

[grand mortar]

idek if it can be balanced for everyone tbh

i vote for oki to just remove it entirely

[pearl escarp]

i guess the effect can be more subtle, but its nice to see what the aimpunch would look like if it were implemented differently

[grand mortar]

how is it implemented in different games?

just kicks the camera up?

[pearl escarp]

some kicks the camera up

some rotates

some rotates towards the direction of the damage

[safe hamlet]

csgo kicks up and a bit to the side, aim follows camera

i forgot how insurgency did it 💀

[normal sluice]

I think in Cod it was mostly up

[safe hamlet]

man the last update broke so many things, so sad

[grand mortar]

if aim followed the camera i think it wouldnt have been as bad

[safe hamlet]

it'd be nice if the recovery to the normal point is faster

[normal sluice]

That's true. In @oak jolt 's clip they kept ping ponging and couldn't even look at the guy after

[keen ocean]

It would be worth it with server meshing and vulkan.
And I already have it, for free of course

[fast thistle]

This is good

[fair summit]

A camera effect that can be turned off would work for me

[wintry bear]

that hurts to watch

does flinch only occur when receiving headshot dmg or bodyshot, or perphaps all the time?

[fair summit]

All the time

[grand mortar]

Everytime ur hit

[normal sluice]

At any range

[fickle cedar]

With any gun

[tepid jasper]

What did he do

[fair summit]

Didn't follow the convo to closely myself, but he had takes that people really hated lol

[tepid jasper]

I don't care to bother looking through

Sounds like people are being uncivil to a person who had an opinion against the majority

[fleet pond]

propped himself up on the hardcore gamer pedestal while talking down to anyone who disagreed with him as part of the "problem" that his suggestion is explicitly targetted to bring down

[tepid jasper]

Oh he agrees with dandy

I get why y'all hate him

[tepid jasper]

I don't have too much to say just remove aim punch or at least tone it down by a good amount so you at least stay on target

[safe hamlet]

armor hit

[green dragon]

The higher fire rate weapon will win most engagements like in this video

[fickle cedar]

Totally fair and balance mechanic

[winged leaf]

I saw him coming from 200 m away with the infrared. I lined up my angle while he was at a dead sprint. He never knew I was even there waiting. Wild results.

[fickle cedar]

Countless times this has happen to me, such a shit implementation of it, its even worst when your gun has a terrible recoil pattern which fucks it over more

[royal sable]

Disco time lmao

[normal sluice]

yikes

[stoic terrace]

nvm that

oh nvm unlucky situation

[royal sable]

Watch it in slo mo 🗿

@oak jolt you had no chance lmao

that last shot went so off 😂

[stoic terrace]

but that tapfire, medium range scope with the sg550

[royal sable]

that's why I appreciate AUG's 90+ accuracy, one less factor to get dicked on by RNG

[zenith prairie]

It’s weird that he killed you in two shots

[oak jolt]

I'm not tap firing there

[stoic terrace]

wut, looks like it tbh

[oak jolt]

yeah no i was spraying, I literally just got destroyed by the aimpunch and ttk

[stoic terrace]

anyways medium optic at that distance with f/a is kinda stoopit imo

[royal sable]

nah, that's fine

i've done with acog scar, and slip aug

the aimpunch there is some bs that absolutely fucked it

[oak jolt]

I mean, I didn't really have time to switch to the canted, it's a slip though

[stoic terrace]

yeah def

unlucky moment

[stoic terrace]

but scar on s/a

atleast with acog only f/a with short range sight imo

[royal sable]

nah, i full auto scar with acog close range, from one side of the road to the other

[peak gulch]

Same

[royal sable]

ain't nobody got time to switch firemodes and sights when someone pops up that close lmao

[peak gulch]

Yea

You use what you have, I don't think the range for that scope in the clip is unreasonable

[stoic terrace]

cover?/switch it on environment

[royal sable]

scar's ttk is actually good enough that you stand a chance 😂

[stoic terrace]

that's what i do

[royal sable]

bruh if you turn a corner and see someone pop up across the road, you're not gonna turn around, swap sights, and come back out 😂

you just aim and click

[peak gulch]

Anyone going "wow bad luck" like that level of aimpunch is just natural needs their head examined

[stoic terrace]

bruh man you starting like kafkatrap

[peak gulch]

Woah man, that's not on.

[royal sable]

k word is banned 😂

[stoic terrace]

well maybe try 'n stay nice

[peak gulch]

I usually am and I'm not trying to be hyper-dismissive, but if I'm reading this right you're pulling out constant edge-cases about why the above clip isn't that bad.

If I'm misinterpreting then my bad

[stoic terrace]

don't get me wrong aimpuch currently is bad but running out there with a medium range scope is... not ideal either

[winged leaf]

You can switch mid spray

I do it all the time as a FLIR user

Since Flashlights and Lasers blind me like im looking into the Sun

[peak gulch]

Hmmmmm, disagree, the target takes up less than 1/4 of the scope, it's a low-magnification scope (I think the lowest?) and the same result would have happened had they been using a red-dot sight

I think that's appropriate, if not THE appropriate range for that scope

If your man's was investigating the state of his nose hair or the dank tattoo on his ass cheek, I'd 💯 agree with you.

[green dragon]

slip is "" barely "" a medium optic though at just 2x zoom. slip is really popular for this reason (and FLIR also doesn't zoom in as far as most other med scopes)

[stoic terrace]

ik

[fast thistle]

What are you doing out in the open in the first place? That gunfight isnt the fault of aimpunch, its the fault of bad positioning and situational awareness.

[oak jolt]

fuck off kafka

there's another clip I posted where i got brutalized by aimpunch regardless of positioning

[fast thistle]

mf's out here blaming game mechanics when they are standing in the middle of a 10x10 km open field in front of an enemy defensive line taking fire.

[peak gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/jebaited-low-quality-bait-wavy-man-gif-26402013

[oak jolt]

real

[stoic terrace]

i mean he got a point somewhere with bad positioning and imo bad sight usage but nahh man pls don't

[oak jolt]

no I agree it was pretty dumb

I think I had just rezzed someone and tried to take an engagement

[stoic terrace]

yeah ouch shit happens

[oak jolt]

the main point of the clip is just seeing the sheer force of the aimpunch from an SMG at that distance

literally kicking the entire gun around

it makes it feel like a gunfight is lost before you can even hit one shot

[stoic terrace]

yeah had that happen to me today a bunch of times, atm trying to grind out the mp5, and it's just ridiculous sometimes i hit people and they just fuck up my aim and i'm ded or they hit me and i flick around and fuck 'em or how it was probaly intended on anything else then snipers, i shoot 'em and they can't do shit, but still brutal at best and infuriating at worst

[fast thistle]

Well, as im sure you are aware, i am in favor of greatly reducing or removing aimpunch for SMG's and other very high firerate weapons. 🙏

[green dragon]

can yall chill

best rebalancing to aim punch is to remove this thread at this point

[pastel shore]

It'd be the same from any other gun, too. Aim punch isn't dependent on anything, you just get hit and get aim punched.

SMGs just do so more frequently at this point.

Best to remove it, reduce it dramatically, and/or add a 300 ms cooldown between flinch. I don't even care if snipers are OP again, even though I think it would be best to keep flinch just for snipers

[oak jolt]

yeah I just meant it for emphasis really lol

[compact folio]

"Grind" thread finally got it's acknowledgement so it's highly likely that soon™ we'll see some changes

[pastel shore]

i guess it just leads to a bunch of people making wild suggestions, including removing aim punch ONLY from SMGs, instead of addressing the root problem adequately. There was a lot of misinformation floating around too, such as the amount of flinch is dependent on what gun you are using(based off recoil or some other stat), or that SMGs impart more flinch on others, none of which was accurate

[grand mortar]

guys i think flinch should be 100x fr fr

[royal sable]

the BTR/LAV experience

[pastel shore]

ok that would actually make me throw up.

How does it look with really small values, like 0.25, 0.5, 1?

[grand mortar]

lemme test

[green dragon]

@keen ocean holy shit fax

[grand mortar]

wait lemme test on targets

[royal sable]

I think that's enough to throw off 6x +?

[grand mortar]

lemme try with affected fov

[pastel shore]

that looks almost serviceable. 0.5 would probably be acceptable as a compromise if oki insists on aim punch staying in the game

[royal sable]

Yeah

[grand mortar]

it would be fine with me if the game had affected fov cos the flinch wont be as nauseating

[royal sable]

so what's the 3 values?

for X, Y, and ???

[grand mortar]

roll yaw and tilt i think

[royal sable]

ah

tilt 🗿

[grand mortar]

basically rotation values

[pastel shore]

that might be what causes the scopes to be off center, if that's reduced to 0 might be an improvement for that aspect of aim punch

[royal sable]

i think you mean pitch, yaw, roll 😂

[grand mortar]

whatever the words are

[royal sable]

roll/tilt same thing 😂

[solid thistle]

Can you create two different flinches at the same time? Lets say, one that only goes upwards and another rng one that goes to any direction

Both values should be really low ofc

[pastel shore]

he actually did this yesterday, you can scroll up.

He also did one where the camera rotated, which was the worst by far, gave instant motion sickness

[solid thistle]

Any idea what time it was? So much scrolling

[pastel shore]

not sure but it should be easier to spot, you can search on his name with attachment and it'll be easy to find

put this in search

in:#feedback from: .muj. has: file

[stray prawn]

#1133360306278645810 message

[pearl escarp]

looks pretty good

[green dragon]

considering the Mg3 is coming into the game as part of the high ROF family I don't see any reasons to keep flinch even in its current state AT ALL

[oak jolt]

been aimpunched to fuck by M249 as well

[pastel shore]

Yea every gun aim punches to high hell. The guys saying "oh lmg should aim punch but not other guns" are the worst. Lmgs/support aren't even bad, certainly don't want to give them buffs, and definitely not via aim punch

[stoic terrace]

imo for how heavy these guns are they have a little to strong recoil and also the bipod is garbo, that thing needs a serious buff

[turbid bane]

'serious buff' pretty sure bipods got nerfed because people were full autoing at 300m with it and m249 was better at sniping than the snipers were

sure they're useless now but i'd rather have them stay like that than have full auto sniper rifles in the game

[acoustic stag]

Flinch should be visual only, and much less drastic than it currently is.

[zenith prairie]

If it were visual only, what would the point be?

It is explicitly there to throw off your aim when you get shot

[stoic terrace]

well 300m isn't a snipers distance optimaly, 400-1400m is, but at the moment bipod's just cringe to use, it should be able to kill ars and dmrs at 200m tbh

[normal sluice]

Player information and feedback. It lets you know you're hit

[turbid bane]

all impactful snipers play at sub 300m ranges though

[zenith prairie]

Well, the skill threshold for being impactful increases above that range

[turbid bane]

and if you make m249 beat dmrs then what the hell is even the point of dmrs at that point where they get beat by full auto at 200m and snipers past 200m

[normal sluice]

Skill floor

[zenith prairie]

Personally I find ~200m to be the easiest place to snipe at

[stoic terrace]

i don't mean past 200m, about at is where i'd set the limit, able to outrange ars and punish cocky dmrs or dmrs in a bad position, anyways bipod recoil is rediculous when undeployed and just barely as good as if the best recoil setup was on the gun when deployed

[stoic terrace]

i usually go for 400-800m but when i have to 1300m is also doable with a 4x

[pastel shore]

They are really deadly enough. The recoil is like an AR, but they got 100 rounds in the mag, all on class that gets up to 165 HP on spawn.

The ultimax especially is so insanely accurate.

Either way, leave aim punch out of balancing them. They can get faster bullet velocity, recoil modifiers while crouched/prone or something else if they DO need a buff. Just keep aim punch out of it lol

[stoic terrace]

wasn't even talking 'bout aimpunch ):

just the bipod's unreasonably shit

[pastel shore]

ya combining 2 thoughts.

I agree bipods aren't very good. They can be a pita to balance, though. If the bipods are strong, it means the base stats of the LMG need to be poor, which makes them mandatory. If they are weaker, you can have better base stats on the LMGs, but the bipods aren't useful, then.

I think they're alsotough to implement correctly in bb, specifically because of the destruction. It means there's a ton of really weird angles/geometry that can screw with deployed bipods and make them awkward to use, I'd bet it's a ton of work getting them to work well, maybe not worth the effort for a single attachment that tends to be much more niche

[stoic terrace]

but the thing is, bipods already weaken the lmg by not allowing a grip for mobile recoil reduction and the lmg user has to set up somewhere where they can be shot to, don't you think that's a worthy tradeoff?

[stoic terrace]

yeah and attachments have to be reworked someday aswell

but whatever till then i'll have to use sup. as a chonky assault with more ammo and a fuckton of boom

[high vine]

Is this really as basic as Aim Punch code works? So if a weapon can drop 30 rounds a second it's going to hit this 30 times in a second versus a slower firing gun?

This seems like such a horrible implementation

[grand mortar]

i believe so

[high vine]

Yikes. Big yikes

[grand mortar]

oversight likely

[stoic terrace]

ye big hurt with that implementation :/

[pastel shore]

yea getting a good flank with an LMG is just nuts. 100 bullets, you just never have to stop shooting. Proper target priority means you can take 15+ players and kill them without letting go of M1 lol.

I think the problem with bipods is that a lot of players expect them to effectively reduce the recoil down to NOTHING. I think it'd be interesting if maybe it removed all nearly horizontal recoil, leaving mostly vertical, but came with steep penalties while not deployed.

[high vine]

It takes in no factor for the receive damage at all for how much the camera shake will happen on the client? That's wild.

[green dragon]

this one looks more bearable(more fair) to play with tbh

@high vine

[pastel shore]

either that, or rework bipods to not be "deployable", but instead have scaling benefits. standing, penalties. Crouching, moderate/neutral reduction in recoil. Prone, large reduction in recoil. That way there's no deployment to worry about, it's more of a decision for how you want to position to take the fights

[grand mortar]

1.5x i think

[stoic terrace]

but tbh the penalties don't make much sense in the way that 1. it's not realistic and 2. and more importantly you're already getting the tradeoff of less mobility and more recoil while moving while having a grip

ik realism is stupid but please it just doesn't make any sense

not even in balancing

[pastel shore]

I'm not particularly worried about realism, rather just don't want an attachment that makes gameplay cheesy and lame. Proning in random corners/areas, having huge EHP, a gun with 100 rounds in the mag, good TTK, and then suddenly it has virtually no recoil and can just decimate anyone they see is just terrible gameplay

[high vine]

I don't get why each gun can't just have a punch power based on what "caliber" it is shooting. If a SCAR is shooting 7.62 there should be at least a magnitude of aim punch vs a Vector shooting a 22LR. You could even add a dynamic in there for each gun where you can choose the caliber for the gun if the gun comes in different calibers

[stoic terrace]

vector has .45acp tho

[high vine]

It does but based on the dmg and recoil profile it's clearly not what is being emulated in game

[zenith prairie]

Calibre isn’t the only thing that affects the energy of a bullet. Muzzle velocity is really important as well

[high vine]

True for sure, but the recoil isn't making sense if it's dropping 30 rounds in a second of 45 ACP is it?

[normal sluice]

Think about why aimpunch is in the game to begin with. What problem in the game is it trying to fix? It makes more problems than it solves. That's why most of us are calling for removal.

[stoic terrace]

10mm auto, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, 9x19mm

[zenith prairie]

Not really sure what you mean by that

[high vine]

For sure removal is the short and easy solution for sure

[stoic terrace]

tone it down and slap a timer on it imo

[solid thistle]

generic aimpunch moaning video

literally how am i supposed to deal with this

[rich iris]

just react to and correct the completely random aim punch

[solid thistle]

maybe i just need enough hp to tank a full vector mag

[rich iris]

just be support. idk what it is about support but i feel like even when i catch them sprinting the armor eats so much damage that they're able to start aim punching me before i can get through the armor

[stoic terrace]

often you just get pummeled before even aiming ):

[rich iris]

i know armor is just like a one time thing to deal with per life, but i hate it so much

especially in basically every moment i've had to pull out my pistol, and then watched a support fully tank the entire glock mag preventing my clean escape

like it doesn't even matter how much of a jump you get on them until you get the extended mag for it

[stray jackal]

TTK is too fast for such severe aimpunch; i don't enjoy losing fights i started because my gun is punching to the moon

[rich iris]

yep yep

[stray jackal]

also makes revolvers and deagle actually useless if you're being shot at

would prefer visual suppression

[peak gulch]

I like this, good job

[grand mortar]

thats without ads, it messes up on ads

imo it should be relative to fov

[peak gulch]

as a PoC it's good, it's nice to see actual examples of what people are crying about

[peak gulch]

hard-agree

[steep surge]

I got the FU sights for 3/4 DMRs. Aim punch is unbelievable when it comes to taking shots with a medium range scope. Trying to use a shite weapon class when the RNG aim punch causes me to whiff the 3rd shot needed for a kill because an SMG from 75m took a potshot at me is frustrating and makes me understand why snipers sit 800 m from point. So that they don't throw up from aim punch lurching

[humble nest]

what do you want people to be able to do besides be walking targets

[steep surge]

Nothing, walking targets that don't shoot back
But in seriousness, be flinched back and be forced into cover instead of tanking 2 hits, shooting at me and hitting a single bullet and then beaming me because MY aim has been flinched and my DMR can't reset while they have freedom to do as they please because they just ate my shots. Headie/body doesn't work all the time because armor exists and that split second save between my 2nd and 3rd bullet shouldn't be up to RNG
Really it's a skill issue, i should just be hitting all headshots

[humble nest]

yes you should

[steep surge]

If people want to tone it down, sure. If people want it removed, it takes all danger of flinch out which means I'm not missing that 3rd shot due to flinch. And if they leave it, dev back handed "skill issue"

[grand mortar]

i wonder if i can try this 🤔 surely theres a isADS flag somewhere

turns out there is

making flinch conditional might work 🤔

i forgot i could slow down game time

might be better for comparing flinches

0.25 gamespeed

[peak gulch]

is that current flinch levels?

[grand mortar]

5 is current

[grand mortar]

this is 2.5 non ads, 1.25 ads

[fast thistle]

@grand mortar you should mod shotguns into the game later, just to show people how well it could be implemented, at such ease, balanced to perfection.

Hit me up if you want the exact stats.

[tepid jasper]

no offense but you will not be able to balance shotguns correctly

I don't know any game that has balanced shotguns, but I can name many examples where they are quite overpowered and underpowered

[fast thistle]

The only thing behind "they are hard to balance" is subjectivity.
Thats why you can only mention games where they are overpowered or underpowered.

A medic vector main will claim shotguns are overpowered if they get killed by a shotgun once.

A normal player who thinks shotguns should be in the game because free choice and varied loadouts that demands adapting to different playstyles is good for a games longevity might just appreciate them being in the game regardless.

A player who chases a high K/D and never plays objective will claim they are underpowered because they bought the lie about shotguns being OP, but those people are just vector medics who are a little bit more openminded than the rabid anti-shotgunners.

So, my subjective opinion goes as follows: id rather have underpowered shotguns than no shotguns at all.

If shotguns were to be overpowered it would upset the vocal minority, the vector mains, who believe they speak for the silent majority. (They do not, the silent majority is silent because they are busy playing the game instead of being heavily invested in pro-skub or anti-skub sentiment on a discord server)

So yeah, id rather see them implemented as underpowered before talking about the perfect unreachable balance.

What balance can be achieved is related to player mentality and what threats they are prepared to face.

If youre zooming around out in the open, youre bound to get oneshotted by a sniper.
If youre zooming around inside, you might run into a shotgun.

If shotguns are underpowered enough that they dont oneshot but most the stupidest players... and you still claim they are OP, then the fault is with player mentality and the failure of skill. Not with the concept of shotguns itself.

[fleet pond]

Mans got himself confused, walked into the aim punch feedback page to write a fucking novel on shotguns

[fast thistle]

My mans is so triggered he didnt even consider the fact i was responding to a comment on the same topic.

(Hes one of the vector mains i was talking about. Now ask yourself if its a coincidence these are the same people who wants to remove entire mechanics from the game)

[fleet pond]

You weren't though, you responded to a guy who was genuinely interested in providing some of his time to create some alternatives to aimpunch that aren't obnoxious.

[fast thistle]

Shush now. Be quiet. You have nothing interesting or constructive to add on either topics.

[fleet pond]

Maybe just make a shotgun feedback thread so you have a toilet to drop your shit into instead of here

[fast thistle]

Look at him...

Speaks for itself really

[tepid jasper]

Yeah I get what you're saying but they also likely don't fall in line with their vision

The maps are big for a reason

[oak jolt]

kafka try not to talk about shotguns challenge (impossible)

[pastel shore]

apex is bout the only game that has decently balanced shotguns, and even they tend to go between OP and TRASH regularly lol

[tepid jasper]

I'm sure part of that too is the movement

They can make shotguns slightly bad but skill makes them good

[plush haven]

Anyone that wants to move off the Topic in this Thread will be muted for 6 Hours.

Ping me if you feel it's necessary, unnecessary pings will be punished.

[pastel shore]

Man even this low, I just can't help but feel it's better to disable it. By the time flinch looks/feels reasonable, it's so low you may as well just not have it at all

[green dragon]

I do wonder how the dev will rework it. I guess we just wait now.

[quick lintel]

big +1 on nerfing it. Really saps the fun out of playing when you know half your gunfights are gonna be lost from an entirely RNG mechanic. Don't mind a little bit of it but as is now, it's god awful.

[grand mortar]

💯 oki should disable that shit

[stray prawn]

no idea why people believe its good to have in games, milsim/Hardcore games yea i would understand but i don't think it belongs in BBR in its current version

[modern coral]

There's still nothing about aim-punch in the announcements despite it not being present in the beta and overwhelming criticisms against it.

[pastel shore]

I won't give up though, out of everything in bb this is the one thing I think needs to be addressed more than anything else

[modern coral]

If the developer was willing to remove aimpunch in exchange for unlimited claymores/mines returning, would you take it?

[pastel shore]

Yea. It's a pointless theoretical, though. Inf claymores/mines was fixing an abuse case. Tbh all explosives should be more limited than they are. 1 nade per life, 2 for supp/assault, and limited replenish on all explosives, nades, rockets etc. Should have always been a thing. On some places(bridges, other chokepoints) nadespam and other explosive spam are just so ridiculous. I get that noobs like being able to sit in a spot safely and just toss infinite nades into chokepoints because it's the only way they get kills, but surely even they can recognize that it's not actually healthy gameplay

[modern coral]

The only thing that fixed was the fun and absurdity in this game. I would understand if players have limits on what they can carry to prevent spam, but players properly planning and utilizing resources such as supply drops to make a minefield should be rewarded. Getting shut down by an arbitrary limit just kills the immersion and creativity of this game.

You might think that this is a fringe case, but just as you saw single-player-made minefields to be busted, others see the solo run-and-gun medic with the exact same lens. What do you think will happen to the game when they get the nerfs they have been crying for?

[fair summit]

devs already confirmed medic isn't being nerfed

they even rejected indirect nerfs to the medic lol

[modern coral]

That soothes my heart.

[fair summit]

welp

[modern coral]

But they did nerf Vector unfortunately.

[fair summit]

i guess we'll see soon

[modern coral]

So run-and-gun might not stay.

[fair summit]

wdym unfortunately

[pastel shore]

Getting shut down by an arbitrary limit just kills the immersion and creativity of this game.

It really doesn't. If anything, unlimited explosive spam reduces creativity because you don't need to smart or clever, you just spam mindlessly for better results.

[pearl escarp]

scale down?

so, more dmg means less flinch (??)

[pastel shore]

Unlucky, out of all the solutions he chose the worst one. Hopefully, even the high damage flinch atm is less than what we currently have, so it'll be an improvement in some cases, but all this does is force AK15/FAL meta, since you aim punch opponents and they don't aim punch you in return

[fair summit]

i assume the other way around

[pearl escarp]

so, just normal scaling then

[fair summit]

as a SCAR enjoyer... i don't hate it, but at first glance, this doesn't seem to be a good solution

[pastel shore]

I hope all the guys who were championing for that solution are ready for me to completely obliterate them with the FAL. I mean, I was already. But now I won't occasionally lose to aim punch 😉

[rich iris]

I’ll have FAL soon, should be a good time considering I’m actually not good enough to be playing aggressively with smgs but do it anyway.

[modern coral]

You literally can do less as a solo player. Before you had the choice to give up some of your time in exchange for reinforcing an area. Now that choice is already made for you. In addition, this game thrives off of its absurdity. The only thing enforcing that limit accomplished was make this game a little more bland in the name of balance.

[modern coral]

I am so ecstatic that RNG in gunfights is here to stay.

[slate parrot]

Just be lucky bozo

[fair summit]

bad luck = skill issue

[modern coral]

Mario Kart does it, so it only makes sense that BattleBit should too.

[slate parrot]

I'm pretty sure that by exponentially scale down he means logmarithic

[placid dagger]

Imagine not being lucky smh

[slate parrot]

So it mainly nerfs low damage (high fire rate) weapons

[placid dagger]

Can't wait to make people see god every time I land a bodyshot with a sniper

[slate parrot]

But a DMR and an ak15 should have similar aim punch

[slate parrot]

If it's exponentially scale down then there's def a limit to the strength

[keen ocean]

DMR's should have bigger aim punch, they do more? dmg too

or they don't

[slate parrot]

Solo player minefields were the epitome of one player doing too much. You can still get a squad to place a minefield but c'mon don't pretend that was reasonable

[placid dagger]

gotta say inverse exponential instead of logarithmic to throw the nerds off

[slate parrot]

Exponentially scale down reads to me as logmarithic

[placid dagger]

can we not discuss the well deserved claymore nerf in this thread?

[keen ocean]

i don't rally understand what you said, I suck at match very much

[slate parrot]

Between pistols and smgs is a big jump

Between rifles and dmrs is a small jump

Diff between 20 and 21 in aimpunch will be more than 70 and 90

Again I'm assuming here

[keen ocean]

Than doesn't feel right to me, kinda backwards

shouldn't smg have simmilar punch to pistols? they have better rof so it will be more felt

[pastel shore]

They are very close in damage. Those ARS/DMRs are all within 40-50 dmg, most between 40-42

[slate parrot]

I mean idk what else exponentially down could mean

But it would be hilarious if ak15 sent you to the moon every shot

[placid dagger]

it probably means logarithmic cause that's the only one that makes sense

[slate parrot]

Anyways aside from the vector were in a heavy rifle meta

[placid dagger]

seems like so

[slate parrot]

Fal, AK15 are top contenders with mp5 and p90 close following

So wonder if those will be adjusted

[pastel shore]

FAL is the untouchable, god tier meta weapon now. Literally nothing has any chance of being competitive with it. Not only was it already S+ tier, but now, you impart an RNG chance on your opponent, but they won't do the same to you, UNLESS they are also running one of the hard hitting weapons. Ugh

[placid dagger]

oh boy, can't wait for the "FAL - Feedback" thread

[peak gulch]

AK15 buff yessss

Time to watch all the S(crub)MG players seethe

[peak gulch]

I want to see me do a backflip if I'm left on 1HP by an M200

[placid dagger]

M200 headshots should just kick you out of the server

[peak gulch]

LOL

Looking forward to DMRs being slightly more viable

[green dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[fickle cedar]

At least its a change

Guess high damage weapons will be metah

[royal sable]

Eh given FAL's vert and horizontal recoil, the aim punch from 40 damage is a decent deal.

And then there's the SVD 😂

More crack on a slightly smaller mag

[pastel shore]

what do you mean lol. fal was already one of the best guns in the game, if not the best. S+ tier gun just got passively buffed 😦

[flint sedge]

I think this mechanic shouldn't exist, it's frustrating to have aim control taken away from you, it diminishes the importance of each player's individual skill, and the argument that it gives advantage to whoever starts shooting first is irrelevant, it works both ways, the player who was shot can still turn and screw your aim by hitting you once. It's bad both ways, I don't see the benefit.

[limber pike]

I have enjoyed games that only aimpunch on headshots since it offers nice balance of not being constantly aimpunched, but when it happens you know the enemy landed a precise hit

[humble nest]

so what mechanic are you guys going to target next when aimpunch isn't the reason you're bad?
Xd

[limber pike]

there's nothing unfair about how the aimpunch works-- I aimpunch you, you aimpunch me, the better player wins
we can separately discuss if thats what we want to be happening though haha

[humble nest]

they didn't get the first shot on target serverside, but felt like they did because they are the best, so they died but its totally not their fault

[storm halo]

If you shoot me first I can't aimpunch you back Xd you have to be pretty lucky

[pastel shore]

flinch adds RNG to gunfights independently of skill level. It does benefit lower skill players more often, but it makes all gunfights less enjoyable for everyone. Most fights are between similarly skilled players, and the top 1% players are going to be good whether there is flinch or not. But it's just not enjoyable or fun to have so many fights have an element of RNG in them, whether you are a top 1% or average player.

[humble nest]

so bleeds being random are the next target

[pastel shore]

While, in theory, its intention is to give a bigger advantage to the first person to shoot, in practice, it just favors higher fire rate weapon and turns most exchanges into coin flips

[fair epoch]

bleeds dont affect your aim location randomly, i dunno about you but i have many times where all i need is another hit to land a kill but the guy flicks and throws off my aim

[pastel shore]

a) stop being a clown b) stop going off topic, c) bleeds aren't random at all, you get them on any damage below 40 or 45 HP. Can't remember the exact #.

flinch turns gunfights into a coin flip, bleeds do nothing of the sort

[humble nest]

flinch happens completely randomly, not on every hit?

[tepid jasper]

#dev-wip message

damn oki woke up yesterday and chose to be a walking W

[stoic terrace]

the direction is random not if it happens or not ig

[humble nest]

uh huh
so how would changing the amount make it not random

[placid dagger]

look at this #1133360306278645810 message

flinch is literally random

[placid dagger]

it'd help with how fucked you are by rng

[stoic terrace]

the amount now isn't random anymore but the direction is still rng so yeah

[fair epoch]

being shit on by rng is less fun for anyone

[stoic terrace]

but still better then before

[tepid jasper]

Makes it easier to stay on target and therefore you aren't going to be nearly as likely to lose fights just due to being unlucky

[humble nest]

if the direction wasn't random wouldn't it become a non factor anyway because you could just rather easily compensate

[pastel shore]

It would which is why the vast majority of players want it removed. Only reason "reducing" it is suggested is as a compromise in the event oki decides removing it is not an option. In that case, a smaller magnitude of aim punch still reduces the RNG factor, even if it doesn't outright remove it, and that's a benefit.

[humble nest]

"It would which is why the vast majority of players want it removed."
I would say since we've got about 40,000 active players and less than 1% of that in here, its not an actual majority?

[stoic terrace]

fair point actually, a lot of people arn't in the dc

[tepid jasper]

It could easily be a majority

[placid dagger]

it is not

[humble nest]

but you dont know

[fair epoch]

you.. you dont sample something and conclude that the rest of the population doesnt share the same sentiment

[humble nest]

if you wanted a real poll of players the map end poll could be modified

[tepid jasper]

No, which is why you can't just say that it's not a majority

[humble nest]

I did and I will

[stoic terrace]

yes that's just assuming we don't know, but consideri how frustrating it is, it's more than likely the majority

[tepid jasper]

Personally idc if flinch exists, as long as I'm not shooting off target

[placid dagger]

People who are in the dc and are actively giving feedback are the ones who care enough to take the time to do it. You can't just handwave it as being "hah you are actually the minority". It's like an election, those who show up to vote get their will represented.

[tepid jasper]

I understand why it is in the game and I kinda agree with it

It's to extend the length of fights, not let people beam heads

Because the recoil in the game is rather low

[placid dagger]

Then you can adjust recoil

[stoic terrace]

rather low? wut

[placid dagger]

Not introduce shitty mechanics to make up for it

[humble nest]

yeah recoil should be random instead

[tepid jasper]

There is not much recoil

[stoic terrace]

some weapons yeah but not all

[tepid jasper]

And even then there is basically no horizontal recoil

Even if vertical was increased you could still quite easily pull down

I mean as long as my crosshair stays on target I'm hapoy

[stoic terrace]

well to get back to topic, i kinda like aimpunch, it's just a bit bad atm

[fierce stone]

English is not my first language. Does Oki mean small caliber (less damage doing) guns will inflict more flinch than higher damage guns?

[safe hamlet]

Reacts on the flinch update is (max, as of this msg) 92 positive and 13 negative. Y'all loud minority.

Flinch based on damage is a good step forward.

[pastel shore]

other way around - higher damage = more flinch

[pastel shore]

of course it's positive.. it's an improvement, even if in the wrong direction. I gave it positive as well, despite the fact I think none would be better...

[plush haven]

Channel has been cleared to stay back on Topic.
Thank you for those wanting to keep it that way.

❤️

[placid dagger]

did you consider that some people left a positive reaction just for the change in the first place?

because I did that just for taking a step in the right direction

[plush haven]

You are always going to get mixed opinions

[turbid bane]

time for ak15 and fal meta and the inevitable nerf they're going to get as a consequence 😹 👌

[fierce stone]

Ehh I don't mind flinch as long as the crosshair is not far from original aim. If we talk hypothetically, small flinch should give some leeway to genuine players vs aimbot cheaters imo.

[turbid bane]

flinch has 0 effect on aimbots and only fucks legitimate players over though because all it does is force you to REACT to the aimpunch and READJUST your reticle back on target, which is something aimbots do INSTANTLY

[humble nest]

im not sure building balance with aimbots in mind is a plan

[tepid jasper]

No, less damage is less flinch

That's how I understood it

[fair epoch]

flinch doesnt affect aimbots, most cheat makers will just deactivate the lines that implement flinch anyway

[tepid jasper]

I could be wrong too rereading it

[fierce stone]

Like I said as long as the flinch is not too far off. Originally I mentioned an encounter a few days ago where getting aim punched by one guy got me random headshot against another guy lol. But disregard what I said about aimbotters. I'm just talking out my ass.

[fair epoch]

most cheats function as dll injections modifying game code to implement whatever cheat they want

[tepid jasper]

That's how most of the work I do believe

If not all

[turbid bane]

getting off topic here 🤓

[tepid jasper]

Because flinch is mainly a visual thing

Meaning it's likely done on the client

Easy to change with shit AC

[fair epoch]

no, and getting off topic

theres better resources to learn about this, you can google.. BBR is made on unity

[fierce stone]

Ahh my bad, I'll delete OT posts myself

[carmine sail]

Watch, the mp5 and p90 will get nerfed just as all us casuals unlock the weapons.

(below just a general statement and it saves me from posting twice)
Also aim punch still sucks get rid of it, makes me feel like my aiming sucks more than it already does.

[tepid jasper]

We haven't seen how much the change actually changes it

[fair summit]

Yeah wait for the patch

[zenith prairie]

Don’t have to see it to know what impact it’ll have, really

[plucky raptor]

Okay Oki

[royal sable]

90% of the statistics are made up

[fast thistle]

#dev-wip message

Daym, its almost like the devs listened to my suggestion considering how the amount of aimpunch is related to the "caliber" of the gun.
Small gun = less aimpunch, big gun = more aimpunch 👏 👏 👏

Now all they need to do is make it a tangible stat on the weapon stat screen and make aimpunch slightly modifiable with muzzle attachments.

Our suggestion made it halfway through @placid dagger, @pastel shore ❤️

[slate parrot]

lol at 90%

literally 50% of this thread is just reducing it

and the other 50% is removing it

you want something with 100% feedback, that was the squad locking system

or buffing assault

[plucky raptor]

When I've looked at this thread, it was 90% removing of it. If that number even approaches 50% it's because the boomers somehow still think this game is a milsim

[slate parrot]

boomers or not they're still the playerbase

but let's do an experiment

ius there no way to search by thread

[plucky raptor]

Saying 'they're the playerbase' is a cop out, as if they have any idea of how a game should play when they think of this is a milsim. Why on earth would you listen to these people

[slate parrot]

bc I was just gonna look up how many had reduce and how many had remove

[slate parrot]

why on earth would they listen to you

goes both ways

[fleet pond]

Well, I guess that updates a start. But really, what's it being in the game actually add to the gunfights? Why does he have an insistence on keeping this shit-tier mechanic thrown in at the last minute in the game?

[plucky raptor]

Difference being I understand the game and what it is? I'm not out here claiming this is an MMO and saying keep this mechanic because!

[slate parrot]

you understand what the game is more than the dev? 🤨

I mean he added it out of nowhere

wasn't something people called for

[plucky raptor]

Does the dev making the game somehow mean they understand it? Considering this games identity crisis the dev's don't know what they even want

[slate parrot]

anyways the reason behind it was to fuck up snipers so me personally I'd just leave it for people using snipers and no one else

[slate parrot]

lmao that's the ultimate ego
you just know what the game should be because... you play it?

[plucky raptor]

? if you can't see this game has an identity crisis...

[slate parrot]

saying you know what the game should be more than the devs is fucking stupid by design, identity crisis or not

[plucky raptor]

It's based on the gameplay, which you know is what the devs made. Stop glorfying 3 devs who basically just made a roblox battlefield with some minor milsim elements

Anyone who has played games like battlefield, squad, arma etc at a high level, for years, can tell what this game is and its issues

[slate parrot]

uhuh

[fast thistle]

@fleet pond considering youre still spamming clown reacts, any thoughts on the devs implementing 50% of my suggestion? Is it good? Bad?

[slate parrot]

to be clear I don't hold devs on a pedestal, the fact that medic is considered a protected class and won't be nerfed (1 less c4 was after hella begging) to me is stupid

But it is very literally Oki's game that he made because he didn't like current battlefield and wanted to play oldschool hardcore mode without the gadgets and 3d spotting

[fleet pond]

They didn't implement your suggestion, they just toned down what was already there.

"just tone it down or remove it" has literally been what everyone has been saying alongisde "just get rid of it, it adds nothing"

[slate parrot]

anyways I have no issue with it being removed I just find it frustrating the amount of people who think that what they want is what the game needs, and it's everyone else who's out of touch

[fast thistle]

Same reason he's against shotguns. His belief in aimpunch is ideological.

Still, i think aimpunch was ok before. But considering the recent update (😘) its beginning to look good.

But let me tell you, its not easy having objectively correct takes all the time. The resistance i meet is ridiculous... but that says more about the community itself than it does about the devs or aimpunch as a mechanic.

[plucky raptor]

That's fine but this operates under the assumption Oki understood Battlefield and was good at it, stats wise he was bang average. So while he may make a game based on the elements of battlefield he enjoyed, it clearly shows his own limitations when this game has an identity crisis and massive balancing issues

[fleet pond]

You should really see a mental health proffessional to sort out your narcissism with some heavy medications

[slate parrot]

which is why he at minimum reads community feedback

stuff like weapon buffs and reworking squad locking came from him reading

[fast thistle]

My narcissism is obviously warranted. But if you want to delve deeper into that subject i suggest you start a thread or ping me in #off-topic

[slate parrot]

there's some stuff he's locked up on but if it was his way or nothing, believe me we would not be getting a nerf to the thing period

[plucky raptor]

The problem isn't community feedback, it's the same issue battlefield has had for years. It's whom in the community is listened to. People lacking fundamentals for the game and how it works

Which is what we are discussing here and was near my original point earlier...

We've come a full circle

[fast thistle]

The problem is how the suggestion threads are managed. They need to separate the suggestions from the discussions.

[slate parrot]

there's an upcoming change that I won't speak on, but it goes against his concept for the game. not everything is for him/the hardcore/milsim crowd, and he does again integrate grander community things

Easy example, XP. He was extremely adamant about leaving in the grind and it took time for him to be convinced to readjust for the common player

and there were people who wanted to keep the grind to be clear

[plucky raptor]

This just clearly shows again his limitations, and hence saying things you know better than the dev is pointless when this entire game essentially has 20 years of data, history and understanding. BBR might not be 20 years old but the games and franchises its ripped from are

In the end aim punch should be removed, as my meme said, he's now introducing a host of new balance issues, there's still zero communication that you are in fact aimpunching someone, zero communication you're going to be aim punched, it detracts from gunplay and it will still be inherently random

[slate parrot]

all valid criticism

[plucky raptor]

All more valid than a boomer coming in loudly saying aimpunch is great because that's how it works in the real world, as they play a roblox arcade game

There's people in the reddit thread about these changes claiming they're yet to get aimpunched

How on earth can you listen to these people lmao

[slate parrot]

Here's a (to me) valid counter tho, aimpunch helps slow down medium range combat in a game where every gun is basically a lazerbeam

[plucky raptor]

Counter oki has not balanced the game and hasn't done a QOL pass on the game. The shit was thrown at the wall and it stuck

So aimpunch in a balanced game has no place

[slate parrot]

yeah a lot of the Early Access changes were fucking stupid

but we're in QoL stage now with weapon nerfs and buffs

there's a balance guy now

[turbid bane]

medium range combat already has a nice handicap to it which is slow bullet velocity

[plucky raptor]

Even the scaling shit now is basically saying the longer your distance the more aimpunch, so people will just begin playing at range more as they get rinsed close quarters and then can still aimpunch people close quarters

[slate parrot]

so if it gets to the point where guns are equal enough and there's still feedback then it can get removed

[turbid bane]

all in all nothing can be said about aimpunch at this point until the new update comes out and we find out whether fal and ak15 are about to become meta and end up getting nerfed and so on

[slate parrot]

Eh, changes haven't been implemented yet but from what i've seen the cqc kings like the vector will be muuuuuuuuch less than before to the point of only affecting you beyond the gun's effective ranges

in terms of aim punch

[plucky raptor]

You've got people in this thread saying yay now my DMR won't get aimpunched by a vector!! Like bruh if you play to your guns range now you've got the advantage of not only being in the correct range but also aimpunch

aka a new balance issue

Eventually oki might realise that aimpuch isn't fun for anyone and remove it

[slate parrot]

eventually

but first let's playtest the new changes and see if it's as impactful as before

[plucky raptor]

Yes but we don't have to jump hurdles to get there, it's just a matter of understanding the balance of aimpunch and critical thinking

Which according to you, 50% people in this thread lack, but will be listened to

Oki himself obviously lacking too, even if he made the game.

[slate parrot]

it's intent was to disrupt snipers and in that regard it does its job

[plucky raptor]

I don't expect a masterpiece either but they've made over 30m dollars, maybe time to hire some more people who have more know how about such things

[slate parrot]

yeah best you'll get is community members volunteering changes bc he wants final say

basically wants to keep the current flow of being able to push updates without having to manage and optimize changes from other people

bigger team gives and takes

[royal sable]

You say that like you should be listened to 😂

And then come in with circus tier take like hiring more people for aim punch and weapon balancing

[plucky raptor]

Yeah dude good one!!! Circus tier is hire more people to improve the game

Here’s one of the room temperature iq boomers checking in to give their 2c

[fast thistle]

Its fun for me, thus "no fun for anyone is objectively wrong.

[fast thistle]

Oki should hire me fr fr. Ive had good takes so far.

[pastel shore]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650516234366091274/1136828001108103218/2023-08-04_04-07-34.mp4

From okis update - you can see the new flinch here. Not sure what gun he's being hit with

Still looks a bit high, and not enough hits to get an avg of it, only 1-2 that show while he is ads. Likely this thread is still very relevant

[slate parrot]

it's a pistol

don't remember which one but it's a pistol doing 25 damage per bullet

[turbid bane]

yea it's mp443 or usp, and it seems a bit high considering that's just a pistol, hope big guns aren't magnitudes worse

[tepid jasper]

i think a bit of aimpunch is good, ive found recoil to be extremely controllable which is why you can kill people full auto from range

imagine smgs

with their range

and no way to prevent someone hitting all headshots if you shoot back

two or three hit kill with the vector

that isnt fun

thats a ttk of .15 seconds

[fair epoch]

in that video it looks like the camera is being affected but not point of aim

point of aim being affected is the entire reason why aim punch is so obnoxious

[tepid jasper]

i could be wrong but i believe aim punch is intended to extend fights with the short ttk

and let the person being shot at have a chance to react

and i dont think thats bad, i think it should exist just it can and is being toned down from what it is currently

and it adds a whole new aspect to weapon choice

[fair epoch]

it just makes shooting back when you are already shot at even harder, or worse, you missing your kill shot because you are being hit with a bullet every 0.05s

[tepid jasper]

its a nerf to smgs

[pastel shore]

... It does the exact opposite...

[fair epoch]

looks fine with that implementation, we'll have to actually try when it goes live to have better opinion

[carmine sail]

Try getting the jump on someone using the vector, they'll just 180 and put you in the dirt like nothing happened to them

[tepid jasper]

thats a problem with the vector really

[fair epoch]

most smgs can do that, just that most smg users use the vector

[slate parrot]

it's an mp443

so on the low end

[fleet pond]

How the hell does your screen bouncing around like a crackhead give you a chance to react? Your reaction is entirely decided around how hard you're getting aimpunched and if they end up missing you at all. The TTK is low enough that you're dead instantly anyways

If anything it's supposed to give the player the hits the target an advantage, in reality it doens't even begin to work that way as it is now because of how random it is

[green dragon]

imo aim punch should only be significant when fighting people using sniper rifles or DMRs. Give us a way to counter snipers more easily without them tanking shots and killing us easily in one headshot

[slate parrot]

That's what it was originally for

[analog kiln]

A step in the right direction, lets see how it plays out for now. Judging from the clips i've seen, probably will require further tuning/adjustments

[peak quiver]

Fortunately*

[safe hamlet]

• Aim punch/flinch will exponentially scale down based on damage received instead of pistol on leg and sniper on chest giving same aim punch/flinch.

Wait, we have limb damage multipliers other than head?

[zenith prairie]

No

But chest has armour so you’ll take different damage there to on legs

It sounds to me as though this could imply armour gives you some protection from aim punch

Potential armour W

[weary garden]

armor is still one time use though, so it will only help on the first gunfight in your current life

this would be a bigger change if some way to restore armor existed

[runic ridge]

Yeah and that should probably change

[weary garden]

Support being able to spawn in armor resupply stations using squad points would be a nice idea

[runic ridge]

Armor resupply from supply drops / support crate and potentially add some supply to certain vehicles so people can resupply off of them

additionally yes you can build armor repair/resupply functionality to support kinda like how now you can heal with a bandage but a medic does it for free

[flint sedge]

how you gonna shot back if your aim is thrown all over the place by the guy shooting you with the vector? you want to flinch the guy so he miss his shots and at the same time you expects to be able to hit him back while you are under the same aimpunch mechanic you are saying that prevents accurate fire

[humble nest]

My assumption would be they are encouraging you to not get in stand up shoot eachother until someone dies gunfights like that, if you lose when you get shot first, you prioritize getting back into cover rather than standing in the open and just shooting back.

[pastel shore]

That's already naturally encouraged by the fact you are getting shot and taking damage, though.

There's a reason it's called "ego challenging" if you choose to turn in that situation - it's a tactical mistake to turn and try to shoot your way out of it based on your ego - you think you're that much better that you can win the fight.

Most good players don't ego chall if they think they can avoid it, you don't need flinch to encourage it, seeking cover is the best play most of the time, anyway

[flint sedge]

would make sense in a full milsim game with very slow gameplay, battlebit is pure chaos, standing up and shooting each other is the norm

can someone tell me what really is the intent with aimpuch?

it's not productive arguing about dozens of different points if it is not even the reason that the mechanic was implemented for

[humble nest]

The only reason I can think of is the above, because even with the current "a lot" of aimpunch raining ammo down on people at long range isn't effective enough to suppress them (at least with lmgs)

[pastel shore]

If you have decent accuracy it is. Truthfully I think if more supports used the ultimax they'd do a lot better, it's got slightly less DPS and isn't as good in close quarters, but outside of point blank it's just insane at laying down accurate fire. It's easier to control than the aug. The two lighter machine guns are also untouchable at closer range, but still decent at mid range.

The M249 is the worst support gun IMO, but it's the most used.

[stoic terrace]

the ultimax isn't nearly as controllable as the aug, both fully upgraded and right out of the box

yes it's controllable but not that controllable

[flint sedge]

if that is the reason the fast TTK is already well enough to accomplish that

aimpunch frustrates the player who starts shooting first when he occasionally gets hit back, and also frustrates the player that is being shot and is not in position to find immediate cover and can only shot back, but he cant properly aim bc aimpuch

[humble nest]

im up to like 300-350ish kills with the ultimax
its good but not aug good, when I was saying long range, if you're raining on a prone dude at 250-300 you just aren't hitting them enough to discourage them from continuing to snipe you XD

[stoic terrace]

ye ik have like 300-400 kills with that cool lookin' mf of an lmg

[pastel shore]

ok but 200-300m is definitely a troll range to try and full auto down a sniper, too. No full auto gun should be effective at that range

That would be tough to do even with a 0 recoil cheat, at that point your dot is literally bigger than the target

[humble nest]

Its more I just want them to stop shooting at my boys for 10 seconds as I dump ammo at them, it shouldnt be getting kills at that range

or at least reliably, I have a few 350ishm kills from raining on folks and getting lucky on already wounded dudes

[pastel shore]

Then tapping would likely be more effective, especially with aim punch. Regardless, at that range, that's where DMRs/Bolts are intended to operate, LMGs shouldn't be effective at all. That's where you rely on positioning, timing, and careful taps to get kills or keep their heads down, and taking a fight against snipers/dmrs at that distance is absolutely a tactical mistake, you should be at a disadvantage

[oak jolt]

I had some guy full autoing me from like 150-200m with a scar or something like that and that was the only time I've ever accused someone of cheating on this game, so I specced him and saw him just looking at people through walls constantly

as soon as I called him out he left

[pastel shore]

Ya I've only done that a few times out of 40k kills. It's hard af and mostly luck. Usually I don't bother shooting at that distance unless they are standing still and not looking at me. Burst firing is more effective, especially with stabil.

Other ARs are better at that range, the aug for example can easily full auto at 200m. Not as effective as a bolt, but doable

[tawdry edge]

I welcome you to this other discussion about suppression: https://discord.com/channels/303681520202285057/1120273018543951912

[granite plover]

Aim punch is terrible right now, its ok for a big headshot, but never for a submachine spray 50 meters over

[runic ridge]

Don't most guns have severe damage drop-off at that range anyways?

I sometimes get kills at that range but its often chaining single tap headshots at some sniper thats just prone and not moving

Going full auto monkey probably easier with a gun like M4A1 or AK-74

[brittle lichen]

don't forget please remove aim punch

[fast thistle]

Yes, it should be removed or severely reduced for weapons with exceptionally high rate of fire.
Fortunately the devs are going in the right direction with making aimpunch dependent on the weapon type.

[fleet pond]

"based on damage received"... lol

Just go look at the damage for the weapons you are whining about before clowning. There are a few PDW, SMGs that have damage close to some of the rifles. Also it would help if you read the patch note

[rich iris]

i can't wait for every gun fight to be between fal/ak15

[fleet pond]

Has nothing to do with weapon type, it's based entirely off bullet damage now.

yup, it's just going to create new issues like that other patreon guy said, where the 40+ damage AR's are going to be aimpunch gods in CQC

hopefully the new baseline doesn't make the high damage weapons too annoying

fixed one problem, potentially created another

[fair summit]

and then with accelerated leveling, can't wait to unlock the FAL 🤤

[fair summit]

SCAR: am i a joke to you

[rich iris]

yes. i'm using the fal right now, with only 76 kills on it

still better than SCAR, easier to control than ak15

this is gonna be disgusting

[fair summit]

i'm waiting for the patch before i go back to the p90/fal grind

for now, SCAR has been scratching the big boolet itch

[rich iris]

i started working the ak15 in preparation for the new meta but, don't even have to wait

it just outright wins vs everything

[fair summit]

i like how SCAR is technically the weakest of the three heavy-hitting assault rifles in the game

and it still fucking slaps

even without the aimpunch changes

[fleet pond]

Imagine all this mess over a mechanic that suddenly appeared one day... all the balance problems you are creating and could simply remove by getting rid of some shitty lines of code

just add more shit onto that plate, lmfao

[tepid jasper]

Well aim punch doesn't do shit in cqb and people are not going to use worse guns to inflict aim punch

And who knows, maybe the highest damage gun is going to have half the aimpunch we have now

You guys talk so much about a change you don't know any specifics about

[turbid bane]

"not going to use worse guns" ak15 and fal are already meta before the update and the flinch change will only make them even more so

[humble nest]

oh no

what are we going to do?

[turbid bane]

shitters will bitch and whine about them just like shitters did with vector

that's what

[tepid jasper]

Or they'll continue to be how they have always been, or even less flinch then they have now?

And people are not going to go out of their way to use a dmr to flinch

[humble nest]

I mean they kill you in 2-3 shots and are automatic how much flinch are you really going to notice

[turbid bane]

we've already seen the new flinch with a pistol and the flinch amount was concerning for a low dmg weapon

so if that clip is anything to go by 40+ dmg guns could very well have higher amount of flinch than what it currently is

[humble nest]

oh no

maybe sit on your hands for about 6 more hours and just try it out for real tomorrow

[turbid bane]

why are you even here

[humble nest]

why not

[tepid jasper]

Where

And anyhow we have no clue how it will scale

Making baseless assumptions is wild

[turbid bane]

again personally i don't give a shit whether fal and ak15 become even more busted than they already are as i main them from the beginning but i'm free to point out the likely consequences this change will carry out in the case it turns out this way

and even then the consequences (big damage guns getting nerfed as a consequence of this change), i'm not saying it's a huge deal or anything, just pointing it out, that is all

[turbid bane]

not pointing you anywhere as the link was posted in this channel while you were actively posting here during the exact moment, apparently ignoring it and the discussion around the clip

[tepid jasper]

I was not trying to intentionally ignore it

You don't have to be a smart ass

[fair summit]

it can definitely screw you over in cqc. just look at the clips posted here 🤷

[rich iris]

i'd be less concerned if we all didn't just see the vector get sent to the shadow realm and now the already meta weapons are going to have more aim punch than other weapons

w/e though. i'm gonna keep sweating with the ak15/fal. it's literally free, beats smg's up close, tap firing at range has 0 recoil. where is the weakness?

[turbid bane]

the weakness would be the mob begging for them to get nerfed, and moving on to begging nerfs for the next meta weapons

[rich iris]

lol facts

it's okay. we've got a few more weapons to go through before i quit atleast

[turbid bane]

fortunately the vector nerf wasn't even that bad, and with it having less aim punch the key issue with that weapon might be solved

[rich iris]

it's probably still fine but why would you use it when the mp5 was already equal up close (and better at range), the p90 is a little weaker up close, better at range, better with headshot multi

dead weapon due to other s-tier weapons in it's category

mp7 still exists as well

[turbid bane]

mp5 and mp7 have bad reload speed, but yeah the main reason for choosing vector over p90 isn't as big of a factor anymore

[rich iris]

the reload speeds are crazy fast if you just mag drop

plus they're both using quick mag anyway

p90 reload is insanely fast too

shit's wild, compared to the vector reloading like your guy is taking a moment to crack a cold one at the range

[slate parrot]

Just keep in mind the pistol that aim punch was tested on was 25 damage

Idk why that's important

But uh smthn to compare with ig cause vector is 22, 3 less damage

[tepid jasper]

Really didn't look like much punch

[rich iris]

punch is being tuned down, and scaling upwards

[slate parrot]

The problem is he didn't ADS

While getting shot

[rich iris]

the concern is how much it'll be at 42

[tepid jasper]

You guys are also completely forgetting that firerate will likely play a bigger role than damage

[slate parrot]

So we don't have something to compare

[tepid jasper]

The higher damage ARs have lower firerates

[rich iris]

won't matter when they punch harder+faster ttks anyway

[slate parrot]

Well ideally if the effect per bullet is small enough, even high fire rate weapons won't be able to throw you off enough

But if a heavy ar pinches you enough to miss multiple rounds

[rich iris]

fal out here with a ttk faster than the mp7 on unarmored bodies

[slate parrot]

That's a death sentence

[fleet pond]

Fact of the matter is that its going to create a new baseline and then is raising guns above/below that baseline which could possibly create more balancing issues. The idea that it never made a difference in CQC is BS

[tepid jasper]

If you are shooting across a street yeah it changes things but when I think cqc, I think of clearing room to room

It doesn't change stuff there at least for me as I like to hipfire a lot

And you guys are just assuming the worst out of the update knowing absolutely nothing how it's going to scale

How much the low ends and high ends will differ

[fleet pond]

assuming the worst might as well be in the same boat as one that is painfully naieve

[green dragon]

It's always healthy to assume worst if you are the customer

[placid dagger]

my guy there are videos in this thread where people get fucked over by flinch in cqc

[safe hamlet]

just wait a few more hours for the update

[stoic terrace]

only 5h to go yay

[humble nest]

they're going to keep crying until it gets removed because they dont like going into a fight without already knowing the outcome

[tepid jasper]

They can have an opinion idc, just the overreacting seems unnecessary

Like you guys are getting a change in the direction you want and are upset

[rancid stone]

@heavy seal still ak15 cuz this weapon is 2hko

[pastel shore]

why would you ping the mod for that....

and a reminder to godforge being a troll, yea, we want it removed because that's how it was pre-release, and the game played 5x better then, before it was added. We KNOW how the game plays without it, and it was better. The games popularity was heavily based on the gunplay pre-release, that's what caused it to blow up on release, and aim punch is one of the new features that quickly stopped a ton of people from continnuing to play the game.

Reducing it is great, but ultimately, by the time you reduce it enough so it's reasonable, you may as well just remove it completely.

Scaling it off weapon damage is easily one of the WORST solutions you can do, so yes, we will absolutely keep complaining about a "feature" that was added and became the biggest problem the entire game has.

[placid dagger]

It's almost as if people have discussed this change and its problems were discussed

and it culminated with most people not being in favor of something like this

I don't know why people would be upset about that

🤷‍♂️

[peak gulch]

holy shit this slaps, SMG's do no aim punch

huge AK15 buff

[rich iris]

yeah i haven't noticed any flinch on the fal

[fair summit]

yeah because it really needed one

[rich iris]

i'm winning at all ranges now, this is the dream

[peak gulch]

overall flicnh seems ot have been turned down even for high celibre weapons

I'd say even 7.62 is doing less than half of what was previously happpening

[rich iris]

which is great tbh

i mean, idk why the flinch still exists at this point, i haven't noticed it affect my aim at all since the update

but w/e

long as i'm not dying to flinch i could care less

[pastel shore]

already seeing ak15/fal dominance lol

much better than before though, huge improvements so far

[rich iris]

the prestige 6 guy says the vector is noticeably weaker at range but he's also finally gotten a 200 kill game with it so...

i'd say for us mortals fal/ak15 is going to be the norm

[pastel shore]

only time I've noticed the flinch atm is when trading shots with players on headglitches, when they have a ak15. It's enough to knock you off target in that situation

[rich iris]

hella off topic he just said he'll be prestige 10 in like a week

bruh

[pastel shore]

aiming for chest makes it easier to deal with. I prefer aiming for head but this is a massive improvement over previous iteration. I would've been prestige 15 if this exp had been in the game since day1, i got scammed 😭

[placid dagger]

dude needs to touch grass ASAP

[peak gulch]

wasn't it going to be literally the worst way to implement aim punch in any game ever?

[pastel shore]

...it is... because AK15/FAL are literally dominating as a result of it...

It's still an improvement over getting kicked to the moon on literally every single hit you take, though. Like... what the fck did you think I was going to say?

[peak gulch]

the scar/ak15/FAL beating SMGs at the ranges they should be beating them at isn't literally dominating