Flinch / Aim Punch - Feedback

[final olive]

A skill issue of the sniper not being contestable in practical terms? That doesn't sound like any of the counter play you have been championing until now. Your provideded counterplayis ignore them unless you are behind them

[pastel shore]

don't have the skill to hit the shots, you should die.

yes... I literally specified that it's highly skill dependent in my reply...

I can win engagements vs headglitched snipers regularly even at 150m because i have excellent aim. That's only possible due to aim punched, without it would be suicide for me to take that fight at all.

Goes the other way as well. If someone is trying to pepper me from ranges as sniper, I mostly duck behind cover atm instead of ego challing because of the risk of being aim punched. I'm forced to play cover much more. However if I notice their aim is really off I'll just ego chal them.

without aim punch, I'll just ego chal everyone and win 99/100 times because even if they do get a lucky hit, I'll still kill them. The aim punch is crucial for keeping me in check, but it's still a skill check.

if I ever get caught out in the open, chances are I will lose my fight in thecurrent version of the game, despite having the better aim, because of flinch. Without flinch I would out aim and win vast majority of engagements even when caught out. Flinch is crucial for keeping snipers vulnerable at that mid range, as I was saying, however it ruins every other fight in the game entirely. So the solution is to remove flinch for everyone, except snipers get flinched when hit, just to keep them in check.

Snipers were OP af during the playtests because there wasn't aim punch. Just ridiculously OP

they are much better balance wise in the current state of the game, but every other fight feels like shit w/ aim punch. Which is why my #1 recommendation is to remove it from everything but snipers, though even just dramatically reducing it will help a ton

[stoic terrace]

imo you shouldn't be out in the open/near cover, if you get caught in a bad spot you should be punished for that tbh

[pastel shore]

going back up a bit, the problem with suppression is that it's not a skill check, because there's no on hit requirement, like flinch would be, against snipers. So that just completely ruins the entire gunplay aspect of FPS games

[pastel shore]

yes, I agree. That's my entire point...

[stoic terrace]

sry if i misread that but it seems like you say you want to outskill the other person even when being in a bad spot

[pastel shore]

no, i'm saying as a sniper, if there was no flinch mechanic, that's what would happen. I think snipers in current version are in a good spot, which is why I want to keep flinch ONLY for sniper users when they are hit.

Flinch just sucks in all other fights, imo

[stoic terrace]

ah k sry english's not my first language

[pastel shore]

no worries

[stoic terrace]

but idk maybe add sup. to (snipers), lmgs, lsw and dmrs, flinch to ars (and snipers) and leave smgs and pistols out

that'd keep snipers in a bad spot against anything but smgs and pistols

and buff support in the proccess

+you rly shouldn't engage snipers with the last 2

[pastel shore]

nah I disagree, that would cause huge balance issues and leave the game just as frustrating as it is now. That's just an attempt to nerf SMGs, instead of improving the flinch mechanics and making the game better

that would actually make the game dramatically worse imo because you're adding suppression, so now you have suppression AND flinch to deal with, and it's just an obvious targetted nerf at SMGs.

SMGs are already getting nerfed, lets not ruin the game trying to nerf them further, especially when it comes to flinch

[stoic terrace]

well tbh i think we're not trying to balance the game as it is rn, people like try to balance it into a "cod players" wet dream while i and others try to make it more "milsim-y" yet still not squad, arma yk

and if that isn't addressed soon the game and the community are gonna have a huge problem

maybe the 1. step is to make a "battlefield"- and a "milsim" -mode

then comes the balancing for both

idk

[maiden vector]

🙂

[fast thistle]

Devs should ignore the vocal minority of players who's feedback is rooted in anger and frustration with the game, and who's suggestions revolve around removing gameplay mechanics. (The majority of the playerbase arent active on discord or reddit, and they certainly arent active posters in a feedback channel thread on aimpunch)

The game needs these so called "hArDcOrE" mechanics to be differentiated from other games in the genre that lean towards a simpler, more arcade'y gameplay experience (call of duty or various roblox mods).

These "hardcore" mechanics is what gives battlebit a unique identity considering the simple graphics that draws comparisons to games intended for younger audiences.

Therefore aimpunch should NOT be removed entirely, contrary to the often spammed emotionally charged gut reactions being posted in here.
The aimpunch's impact on the gameplay experience should be tweaked and reintroduced as a way to balance the class- and loadout meta (medics equipped with the vector)

The aim of tweaking aimpunch being:

• Giving some of the underused weapons a competive edge compared to the meta.
• Making the severely limited and disappointing loadout choices of Leader, Assault and Support have something more going for it (LMG's having more aimpunch than assault rifles, SMG's should have no aimpunch)
• Making unlocking new weapons and attachments interesting, since some weapons and most attachments you unlock as you progress through the game are outright downgrades compared to weapons youve unlocked earlier.

For a brief example on how aimpunch could be reworked in a sense that is fair, makes logical sense and preserves the game mechanic, see my previous post:
#1133360306278645810 message

I will not go into detail and list exact numbers for every weapon in the game, i have faith that the devs are capable of doing this on their own.

PS. clown reacts = vector user cope.

[placid dagger]

Man reacting to your own post is a little low

[fast thistle]

I dont care, read and think about the suggestion.

[placid dagger]

So do a lot of people here

they don't feel the need to create a sense of agreement for their own post though

[fast thistle]

Stop burying the only good suggestion with off topic spam.

[placid dagger]

oof

If you are sensitive to opposing views you can a) not engage in the thread at all b) don't read the replies

no need for the needless aggression

[fleet pond]

You called aim punch a good mechanic and your only reasoning behind it is "other games do it too and it makes the game hardcore" there is no rhyme or reasoning beside your fee-fees about vectors

i think it says a lot about your average aimpunch enjoyer that their entire post is always 100 percent centered around making aimpunch more egregious against SMGs while nerfing it against everything else

[final olive]

There is no way to tune aim punch to where it doesn't favor high rate of fire, abd punish low rate of fire the most.

[green dragon]

Sad reality is that high fire rate weapons will always be good.

[fast thistle]

If you want to talk about the self-confidence issues associted to not liking your own posts, ping me in another channel more appropritate for that discussion.

Unless you dont have any on-topic thoughts on my suggestion, that is constructive criticism or a competent counterargument. Who knows, if its good enough maybe ill change my mind or we could reach a compromize.

[fast thistle]

Strawmanning. Opinion ignored. Next.

[fleet pond]

You don't have to "next" anyone, your post is dust in the wind

[fast thistle]

Thats true, there are a multitude of ways to balance weapons with high rpm, however thats a discussion more appropriate in the vector thread.

We all do seem to agree on one thing though, weapons with abnormaly high rate of fire (mainly smg's) shouldnt have aimpunch. Thats a good start.

[green dragon]

just remove it and leave it for hardcore mode , a game with this fast TTK does not need flinch, it is a unneeded feature for casual, and it fucking sucks

playtests didn't have it (or maybe had it, but such a small degree it was basically unnoticeable) and it was fun having teamfights on playtests, now it's quite stupid to even have 1v1s cause RNG decided to fuck you over when you are trying to shoot a support so he 180s, shoots a few bullets, inflicts flinch on EVERY bullet and then you die as a result

[placid dagger]

Ironic coming from you when you strawmanned the entire thread

[placid dagger]

Some people mentioned that the flinch was implemented as a counter to snipers dominating in the playtests

[late sparrow]

snipers werent dominating in playtests though?

[placid dagger]

I didn't experience any playtests so

[late sparrow]

that might be more because we still had 3stk ak74 and m4

[astral storm]

ak74 was definetelly dominating on playtest with heavy barrel and 3 bullets to kill...

[late sparrow]

m4 was even better

[green dragon]

idk man snipers weren't dominating on playtests, it was literally just one CQB map

[late sparrow]

even in valley it wasnt as bad tbf

but now that the game is more mainstream got all sort of funny people playing

[astral storm]

aim punch was stealthily updated on the last 24h patch if I remember correctly... like the H-bar nerf, no mention on patches at all.

[fast thistle]

Its blatantly obvious that the disagreements and antagonistic attitude right now is an emotional response rooted in the inability to construct a good counterargument.

If youre not going to actually reflect on my suggestion from an objective point of view, while also considering the overall good quality of my suggestion compared to the average " rEmOvE AiMpUnCh"-post and at least try to make a good counterargument i suggest you being your trolling to #battlebit-eng and we can spam clown emojis at eachother instead of derailing this thread.

[fast thistle]

Another sign of this analysis being spot on is the fact that those clown reacts were made 0,5 seconds after i made the post. There is no way you have the capacity to process the contents of my post before posting your kneejerk reaction.

[green dragon]

if anything iirc the last playtest was mostly just AS VAL dominating since it got OP tuned, then it got gimped to whatever we have now

[placid dagger]

The clown reacts are there because of your language my guy

If you really do think your argument as good as you say it is you don't need to prematurely defend it

[fleet pond]

I just think your suggestion is hot garbage because it's solely centered around the idea that aimpunch is only a problem for non-smg players. Your opinion being to nerf SMG aimpunch while boosting it for other classes just goes to show your mindset, you want to be propped up.

Your suggestion isn't quality, you just want it to be worse for some and better for others.

[placid dagger]

You keep saying your suggestion is the best yet you've not said anything different than what other people have already said

[fleet pond]

It's a game mechanic that turns fights where two people shoot at each other sat the same time into RNG dice-rolls. Doesn't need to get any simpler than that

[fast thistle]

So you agree, its just anti-intellectualist cope. Good.

Im going to let you collect yourselves s bit feel free to @ me when you feel ready to stay on topic. I unironically hope you do.

[placid dagger]

The most intellectual BBR player everyone

[final olive]

Desyncing your aimpoint and where your bullets are coming from will always feel bad

[amber mango]

what would it actually hurt removing aimpunch, so far its just been hurting me at least, i honestly cant see any negative side effect

[placid dagger]

You can't even defend your argument or your actions without playing the "stay on topic" card 💀

You are taking 15 minutes on each post just to say nothing of value

[fast thistle]

Show me where someone has suggested aimpunch being reworked into a tangible weapon stat instead of being removed entirely.

prove me wrong, until you can substantiate your claims this is still just antagonistic copeing. I thought i made it clear that it isnt of interest to me, and it sure as fuck wouldnt be of interest to whatever poor intern (likely isnt) scrolling through the feedback threads.

[fleet pond]

I feel like it's one of those weird mechanics where you never recognize it helping you (because TTK is low enough that you kill anyone you get the drop on) but is extremely obvious when you lose a fight because of it (landing first shot on unaware target, getting snapped, a single bullet throwing aim off enough to turn the fight from your favor)

[placid dagger]

and you keep acting like you put out academic papers yet all you do is praise yourself in the most cringiest way possible

you are not an intellectual you just think you are one

[fast thistle]

So how am i wrong? 🙂

[placid dagger]

The thread is 2074 posts long my guy

I have been here when they were posted

[fleet pond]

you tried the antagonistic coping card by ending your suggestion with "if you disagree you are a vector user"

[amber mango]

true, i've mostly noticed it whenever i shoot first but i still get the aimpunch and the vector users being completely invulnerable

[fast thistle]

Case in point.

[placid dagger]

Can't bother going up 500+ posts to give you evidence

[placid dagger]

Do you want me to point out the fallacy?

[fast thistle]

There is a seach function. Use those key words i gave you free of charge.

[placid dagger]

or are you enough of an intellectual see it by yourself

[fast thistle]

💤

[amber mango]

both of you guys are now off topic

[placid dagger]

you can't stay on topic with him lmao

[fleet pond]

I think just your basic net compression from playing on the internet is what makes vector feel strong at times. The way you just seem to die instantly from one bullet is going to feel more prevalent from a gun with an absurd RoF

[placid dagger]

he just claims that his view is the best

doesn't defend it

[amber mango]

true

[placid dagger]

wants you to prove a positive claim wrong

[fleet pond]

he's already convinced himself he doesn't have to defend it because the only person who would disagree with him is the exact person he would make his suggestion to deal with

[placid dagger]

i.e. he shifts the burden of proof on to you

he's using the "never play defence" tactic

[amber mango]

ok, now pls guys continue this chat in dm or some other place

[placid dagger]

and is acting like that somehow makes him an intellectual

the guy is the definition of cringe in my book

[fleet pond]

I think aim punch fails to do what it intends to do, which is help secure the kill for the player that shoots and hits first.

[amber mango]

yep, we agree on that

anyway im headed out

[placid dagger]

it adds unwanted RNG into gunfights

it takes control away from you in a crucial moment so if you die because of it you just feel like you got the short end of the stick

[fleet pond]

yeah it makes those CQC trade-fights nauseating. if you are going for a headshot and get aimpunched into his armor... or even going for bodyshots and get aimpunched to his armored head. feels so wack

I feel like I'm constantly trying to avoid trading fights with people the more I play, the dice roll just isn't worth it sometimes

[placid dagger]

it'll never feel good when it happens to you

because it's out of everyone's control

if you get beat in a 1v1 without aimpunch you can say it's an aim diff or weapon diff etc.

but when you die with aim punch it's never clear, which makes it frustrating

[fleet pond]

It's a parasitic game mechanic that saps what armor is intended to save the player from, an ambush or a miniscule slip-up. But aim punch hampers any attempt to turn that into a positive moment unless mistakes are made or the aimpunch is in your favor.

At some point, you just decide to drop the armor and take your chances on taking fights based off superior positioning

[fast thistle]

I am specifically asking you to come up with an objective counterargument to the actual suggestion.

Right now both of you are just circlejerking your cope about my request that you make a counterargument instead of circlejerking your cope.
Its an endless bait cycle.

So here's my solution:
Scroll up to my post (#1133360306278645810 message), read that post (and the linked post within it) then go through those points one by one and give me your thoughts on why you disagree instead of continously proving this analysis correct: #1133360306278645810 message

I have intentionally written my suggestion with paragraph division in mind so its easier for people of your caliber to process the text.

[fleet pond]

I just don't think either of the posts are good. Turning aimpunch into a tangible stat that you can alter seems like needless bloat. Nerfing smg/subsonic aimpunch just makes those weapons instantly lose fights where anyone with unnerfed aimpunch trades with them. 1 dimensional changes

If the SMG/supressor user is just going to lose any close range fight because their weapons produce no aimpunch and everyone else does, then wheres the advantage in even bothering to use the weapons in their intended roles

[placid dagger]

Do you really expect people to take you seriously when you have done nothing but suggested run of the mill suggestions with a tone that is frankly comical. You keep saying shit like "people of your caliber" and act like you are some sort of an intellectual for coming up with the most basic suggestion and then have the audacity to throw a hissy fit over not being taken seriously.

You take around 15 minutes per post yet you manage to say nothing of value in each one. While also acting like what you said is profoundly deep.

The reason nobody takes the time out of their day to interact with you other than calling you a pompous clown is your tone.

If you wanted serious argumentation you'd get your act together but no, that's not why you are here. Therefore I'm not going to give you any attention other than the clown reacts you deserve.

Opinion ignored. Next

[carmine sail]

Mods should just ban the guy from discord he's just derailing this thread

[fleet pond]

my dad is john battlebit, ceo of battlebit

[pastel shore]

man is a certified clown, pretty sure he's the same guy who has a near aneurism anytime shotguns are mentioned

[placid dagger]

The Clown has the audacity to look down upon us and act intellectual while he can't even avoid the most basic logical fallacies.

The lack of self-esteem is honestly pathetic.

[pastel shore]

Part of my entire list of suggestions is exactly that.. a way to do this by giving a short(300 ms) cooldown on how often you could be aim punched. That would mean no one is able to be aim punched more than once every 300 ms, aka, every gun aim punches at the same frequency

[fast thistle]

Thats literally the point of the burden of proof.

You made the claim my suggestion has no value because a suggestion like it has been brought up in the past: #1133360306278645810 message

Besides you clearly havent considered the fact that my posts eventual similarity to a previous suggestion, which you have yet to prove true, has absolutely zero bearing on it being good or not (its value). And it sure as hell doesnt mean youve even attempted posting a counterargument that relates to the topic.

So, what we are talking about right here is the exact type of cope circlejerking i was talking about earlier. Youre still proving my analysis true.
As such, its these posts of yours that have no value. It was projection from the get-go.

All im asking is that you at least try. But yeah, a troll will always be a troll and youre part of the reason why nobody in the dev team would even consider reading through the feedback threads.

[placid dagger]

Just go away mr pretentious

Save the 30 minutes you need to form a coherent thought because I'll just ignore it

[fleet pond]

damn... all that time just to post another wall of text that adds nothing to the convo lmao

[pastel shore]

your entire suggestion is a targetted nerf towards SMGs, nothing more. No one takes you seriously because that same stupid argument has been shut down a dozen times anymore.

We get it. You are butthurt because of vector users. Take it to the vector feedback thread and stay the fuck out of the other threads if you can't be objective

[fast thistle]

Unless you tweak the amount of aimpunch the weapon does, and in the case of weapons with abnormally high recoil, remove it*

#1133360306278645810 message

#1133360306278645810 message

[fleet pond]

I think the 300ms flinch lockout sounds good if the only other alternative is keep it as is and it won't be removed. maybe just toned down a bit on top of that would be nice cause it might still cause some rng in those super close up trades

[placid dagger]

Thanks for publishing your self reacted shitty posts again

Nearly forgot to add reactions to them

[fleet pond]

oh dang he really was self-reacting lmao

[pastel shore]

ya ideally one of the 4 suggestions i've listed gets implemented. The normalization for firerate would be very welcome, but overall the aim punch is still just way too extreme.

[placid dagger]

that's why this whole tantrum started

I called him out on reacting on his own shit

[wet field]

Remove Aim Punch or i punch my monitor 👊

[placid dagger]

he went on about how it's the only good suggestion in this thread 💀

for the love of god stop typing

nobody is going to take you seriously even if you use the thesaurus more

your suggestion is bad and your tone is worse

the fact that you throw tantrums over shit like this is the worst though

[royal sable]

😂 Time to make your own aim punch balances with community servers

[fast thistle]

How is it a targeted nerf to smgs? If aimpunch is removed completely from all weapons, the vector would still be OP since we all seem to agree that weapons with a high rate of fire will always be preferrable.
So we would still be stuck with a meta consisting of vector medics. A stale meta gets boring, a boring game is a dead game.

Also, your reading of my suggestion is literally proving what i anticipated, low effort disagreements is nothing more than vector user cope.

And no, i will not take it to the vector thread since my suggestion isnt about the vector, its about how aimpunch could be tweaked instead of removed while simultaniously addressing a host of other problems. All of which i have listed in my suggestion. If you actually read and comprehended my suggestion instead of being a self-fulfilling prophecy of my predictions.

Its extra funny how youre trying to use the point ive been making this entire time against me, that we should stay on topic.

[fleet pond]

The high RoF is preferrable because of aim punch tho. your entire suggestion is based around nerfing the aimpunch they cause

[pastel shore]

High fire rate weapons are preferable because they aim punch more frequently. Removing aim punch is a direct nerf to SMGs and other high fire rate weapons.

In other words, removing aim punch from ONLY smgs is targetted towards trying to make SMGS obsolete, while keeping the same frustrating aim punch mechanic in the game, instead of simply trying to improve aim punch as a mechanic, whether that's removing it, removing it conditionally, reducing it, giving it a cooldown, or some combo of them.

you need to seriously fuck off with accusing others of reading comprehesion errors, I understand you completely and you're a fucking idiot. No one is having trouble understanding you, your ideas are just stupid and emotionally charged and have all been discussed and shut down in the past.

[fast thistle]

Thats fair, thats basically what ive been saying the entire time. With the addition of making aimpunch a tangible stat.

I even said high rof weapons could have tiny bit of aimpunch, as a treat, the most logical way of doing that would be with a muzzle attachment that is balanced to compensate for the high rof, an increase of recoil or modifying some other stats.

[placid dagger]

The man cannot go a second without insulting people's intelligence, yet he's the biggest clown I've seen here yet. It took you 30 mins to whip this shit up yet you still had the nerve to throw in insults.

[fleet pond]

I'd rather have a relatively consistent experience, I kind of like the attachment balance already. I don't know who'd be willing to take that attachment considering the biggest factor in most cases to winning a fight where you shoot first is the TTK + armor. The aimpunch is a random, inconsistent, and unrewarding mechanic. You take that attachment and you condem yourself to die on a hill of hoping any fight you wouldn't win would be saved by a mysterious force

[fast thistle]

SMGs couldnt become obsolete unless they got nerfed in some other way in addition to removing aimpunch.

Isnt a lot of weapons being obsolete a common criticism of the game right now? At least 50% of unlocks are downgrades compared to earlier unlocked weapons.

And again, if you actually read my suggestion instead of spamming clown reacts and making unobjective emotionally fueled interpretationd of my suggestions, you would have seen "improving aim punch as a mechanic" is literally what my suggestion is about.

Not only is it reading comprehension errors, its intellectual dishonesty, and as i said, its proving my preemptive analysis of your response true.

[fast thistle]

Then stop what youre doing, stop hitting yourself.

[fleet pond]

you can already lose easy fights where you shoot first with an SMG only for aimpunch to decide the fight. if only SMG didn't have aimpunch it would be a nearly guaranteed loss against anyone who wasn't completely unaware

[placid dagger]

This man actually thinks he comes off as intelligent

[fast thistle]

Youre so low lvl its not even granting me any exp.

[placid dagger]

Oof just hit a new cringe level

Hope this interaction provided you with the desperately needed self esteem my man

Cause you sure provided some top tier entertainment for me

[pastel shore]

They ARE getting nerfed in other ways ALREADY. That's why there are threads collecting feedback on them.

You are abusing this channel to give feedback that has jack shit to do with anything other than further targetted nerfing SMGs(specifically vector, let's be real here), instead of leaving actual objective feedback about aim punch as a mechanic.

[placid dagger]

But his suggestion is the objective best in this entire thread. It's definitely based entirely in logic. He has thought about it long and hard.

[pale hatch]

Aim punch needs to be lowered from any weapon because in its current state it's just absolutely annoying. I also don't hink that aimpunch is the sole reason MP's are popular

[placid dagger]

Intellectuals would tell you that this is ok for game balance

however I, a mere mortal, suggest that having coinflips during gunfights is not a good way to balance weapons

[rich iris]

just perfectly correct and control not only your gun's recoil but the flinch. you should already know the flinch pattern

[pale hatch]

it is balanced. It's just random, but it is annoying

[rich iris]

that was sarcasm, please don't get mad at me

[placid dagger]

Except it technically is not

Higher rpm means you get to use the randomness more etc.

[pale hatch]

higher rpm also means your recoil is harder to control over longer distances. So I guess it evens out

but that's really not the point here

[placid dagger]

there are high rpm weapons with easy to control recoils

the mechanic itself is just not fun

you don't go "damn I should've controlled my recoil better", you go "what the fuck was that flinch just then"

[pale hatch]

You could leave aim punches for headshots I guess but on every hit it just stops being a gameplay mechanic

[placid dagger]

If it gets to remain it should at least be on a cooldown

so you don't get punched around

[fleet pond]

oooh we can post videos here now?

[pastel shore]

you could post them as links before

[fleet pond]

I had 2 saved

[placid dagger]

I remember seeing this before

did it get deleted?

[fleet pond]

yeah i posted them in the aim punch tab on the suggestion thread

[placid dagger]

as long as the videos are related to the topic they should stay

[fleet pond]

oh no, it wasn't deleted, just reposted here

[tranquil storm]

I dont think aimpunch needs to be removed just toned down for some guns, especially the smgs currently it just seems its reliant on firerate and therefore another thing smgs outclass every other weapon in

[carmine sail]

Both those videos add up to my experience getting a jump on a vector user. Instant 180 with no counter play once they slam their head onto their shoot button

[fair summit]

were you at full health?

[fickle cedar]

Self react to make it seem like your comment is getting traction, good one

[fickle cedar]

You should have not gotten shot /s

[fickle cedar]

What a balance and fun mechanic that invokes muh realism and immersion because other games do so, i see no problem /s

[fleet pond]

yeah, full health with both of them.

[fair summit]

welp

pretty insane how strong the aim punch is even in close quarters lol

[rich iris]

as a filthy smg enjoyer, aim punch go away plz

[fast thistle]

Imagine not liking what you write on the internet.

[fickle cedar]

Better stop making a fool pf yourself unless you are a masochist

[placid dagger]

Wdym? He's clearly displaying his superior intelligence to us lowly, pathetic troglodytes. You should be on your knees worshipping him for blessing you with his logic based and objectively correct ideas and infallible preemtive analysis

On another note the only thing he managed to do is the get a bunch of negative reacts on his shitty suggestion posts

[fickle cedar]

He achieved what he needed, just the opposite

[wintry bear]

I would prefer if flinch is merely a immersion effect and not enough to be disruptive/gameplay affecting like the one in Destiny 2

You already have enough to deal with in an fps game with 100s of players in a single team

[runic vessel]

As a close/medium range recon player, I must say I absolutely despise flinch/aimpunch more than anything in this game right now. It is obscene the amount of times where I'm zoomed on an enemies head and just as I'm clicking to kill him, I get hit in the side/back by another random enemy and I'm flinched and thus miss my shot. I understand it's a good mechanic to keep snipers in check but I sincerely hope they add a cooldown so you can't be flinched again or simply reduce the effectiveness of flinch. Personally, I'm all for completely removing it because aggressive sniping is not as easy/simple as so many like to believe, especially in the larger 128v128 mode where enemies are seemingly everywhere and you have zero room for error not only in hitting the headshot but you also must be the first one to shoot in any engagement otherwise you're aimpunched/flinched instantly. I think having aimpunch only occur when getting headshot is another solid suggestion. Nothing more annoying than some guy spraying at me and hitting me in the foot/leg and it flinches my crosshair all over the screen.

[fast thistle]

Nah, everything ive written is correct. I even predicted the vector main emotional meltdown earlier.

[latent lava]

snipers are already kept in check in CQC by
"you miss that headshot, you die"

[wintry bear]

Now inmagine, you are having fun ( real ) dueling people, beaming them with sheer focus and alot of reloading. But now when you are in 1v1, you had the victory earned every single headshot just one bullet away from killing a guy but a random supressing fire just immediately make you miss the kill shot. In the first place if an enemy support came to save the guy of course thats great for them it was multiple adversary against you alone. But you did not get that kill. Now try to think of the many other situation how flinch can be so annoying. Now if you want a taste of REAL flinch, play vehicles. Your whole body will recoil to kingdom come by a rocket or an enemy tank. Flinch is like fighting a cancer opponent that you cannot deal with or forced to deal with some bs build or other 'future things' to tone it down creating a problem that never existed (oops we have hundreds of players and the possibility of getting shot at your flanks is so much higher?) and inmagine making that part of the game experience.

[fast thistle]

Yes, its not like youre in a position to display sarcasm when you didnt manage to answer one question or come up with a single counterargument. All you did was circlejerk and cope my prediction into reality, its not like the chat logs are lying.

[wintry bear]

No matter what from my experience of playing fps games having your control violated by flinch is one of the peak of invention to frustrate the players

[fast thistle]

Which is exactly the same way shotgun users would be kept in check if they were to be implemented, but that discussion is for another suggestion thread.

[fast thistle]

Nuclear take: getting shot should be punished.

[wintry bear]

Overwatch is another prime example, in a fast paced fps game and then having to deal with crowd control abilities which is not in a small amount make the game not fun to play. And guess what, they removed such crowd control abilities upon the release of Overwatch 2. There are just better things player rather focus on than having your screen violated be shaken by this feature

[wintry bear]

yes they should become unliving!

[fleet pond]

you do get punished when you get shot, you die.

[latent lava]

counter point:
getting shot is already punished by lowering HP

[wintry bear]

But vehicles player have it better, when they got shot they get recoil or spin out of control like WILD and hit a building or crash, stopping momentum. This is the first phase, their heart dies. And then the following rpg shots or finishing shot kills the player itself. They die twice!

[runic vessel]

Hitting a quick close range headshot with a bolt sniper is significantly more difficult than one shotting people with a shotgun in close range where minimal accuracy is required.

[wintry bear]

At least jeeps doesnt have this problem

💀

^ sad jellyfish, you will remember this

[fast thistle]

Depends on balancing doesnt it.

Either way, if youre up against a vector or a similar 0 recoil weapon with insane rpm youre going to be dead in 0,4 seconds anyway. Considering the low ttk, you might as well call a vector burst a oneshot. The only difference being that you cant lead your target as well as with a shotgun considering the insane recoil, low rpm and limited range of shotguns in the vast majority of games. It wouldnt be any different in battlebit.

But as i said, this isnt the right forum

[fast thistle]

Devs have been talking about implementing a casual/easy mode, hopefully aimpunch is removed in that game mode so everyone gets what they want from the game.

Or, even better, just let server owners tweak values to their liking, including turning off aimpunch. That way we could even have servers with a 45 second ttk for people who enjoy games like Apex Legends as well.

Catering to as many players as possible is the best thing that can be done for the longevity of the game.

[fleet pond]

ironically enough you see aimpunch in the more casual games. it's not even something you see in every milsim game

the hardcore realism tends to prefer supression instead of memepunch

[plucky raptor]

The real question is why did the devs put aimpunch in the game to begin with? Such an absolute garbage mechanic

[fast thistle]

I never claimed its a feature in every milsim game.

[fast thistle]

Probably because flinching when being hit with a bullet is a natural reaction?

Considering the low ttk and the relatively fast bleedout timer, devs simply werent going for the casual arcade shooter experience that people on discord seem to favour.

Either way, it all comes back to vector mains being annoyed over the prospect of losing a gunfight they otherwise wouldnt have lost if being punished for being shot wasnt a thing.... As you can see with the one single attempt at countering my suggestion earlier today was a strawman of my argument on why weapons with a very high rate of fire shouldnt have aimpunch was rephrased as a "targetted nerf on the vector"

[plucky raptor]

This game isn't a milsim game though so aimpunch has zero business being in it, regardless the mechanic is still a shit mechanic in a video game

[fast thistle]

And the game clearly isnt a casual arcade shooter with a 40 second TTK, despite its roblox looking ass aestetics.

The reason its a shit mechanic is because of its implementation.
#1133360306278645810 message

As i said, wouldnt the best thing for all of us be if server hosts could tweak these settings to their preferences on their servers , surely thats an easier solution than splitting the playerbase between the two modes (easy and normal) and having the rules set in stone. Wouldnt splitting the playerbase on a server by server basis be less devisive and give players more freedom in how they want to experience the game.

I think it would be way more constructive and fruitful to rally behind that point together, rather than doing what the three coping vector mains were doing earlier today.

[fleet pond]

about as constructive as handwaiving everyone who disagrees as a vector main

[plucky raptor]

It's an arcade game with a lower TTK. Arcade games don't require long TTKs to be an arcade game

The reason it's a shit mechanic isn't the implementation, but rather the mechanic isn't conducive to consistent gameplay. Both in that you don't know when you're doing it to others and it occurring to you feels random, without any real way to combat it, outside of armor which makes everyone soak far too many bullets.

The simple solutions is just remove it, aimpunch is an attempt at realism in a place it has not business being

Having disucssions like this is fine, but in the end kind of pointless until the devs actually decide what they want this game to be. Though fun it's clear there's been zero QOL or balance passes done on the game, but rather thrown their ideas at the wall, while they stuck there's also very clear issues

[fast thistle]

upload a picture of your game stats, you wont because it has "vector played 800 hours"

[fast thistle]

Devs have confirmed they intend to have two modes, one easy mode for people who just started out playing the game, and the normal mode, which we have now.

Have that in consideration when reading my last comment.

[plucky raptor]

I'm already aware of that

[fleet pond]

I prefer the p90, used vector for about 2k kills. This doesn't discredit the idea that you only want to buff your own playstyle and talk down to everyone as if they're bad and want crutch mechanics while you want the same but just for a class of weapon you use

i can post if you really want but its not important to the convo or worthwhile

[placid dagger]

Ah yes, my sarcasm is not valid because... I didn't come up with a counterargument? Man I understand that you are an idiot but come on now. The bar isn't even lifted up yet you still can't pass over it

Your whole facade of intellectualism falls apart when all you do when people disagree with you is restate your argument and claim it to be true, insult people or call them vector mains.

All you've managed to achieve here is to out yourself as the idiot you are and get a bunch of negative reacts on the shitty suggestions you wanted accepted

[fast thistle]

Yes i want to "buff my own playstyle" by suggesting one way of bringing the absolute top of the uncontested meta down to a reasonable level.

Another hint that you're cOmPLeTeLy RiGhT is the fact i want shotguns to the game, because shotguns would be totally OP in a game where the average engagement distance is 40 meters.

The cope won't stop.

[placid dagger]

ooh another reaction added

completely ignore the person's point

[solid thistle]

people dont want rng mechanics into the game

[fast thistle]

Keep posting clown emojis, it will surely help your non-arguments.

[placid dagger]

Keep getting mad over them, it will surely provide entertainment.

[solid thistle]

also battlebit is far from truly casual shooters like cod and battlefields, we dont need annoying mechanics like aim punch to differentiate from the rest

[fleet pond]

you don't want to bring it down to a reasonable level, you want it virtually eliminated for some weapons yet buffed for others

[solid thistle]

havent tried em all but what fast paced/non milsim shooters even utilize proper aimpunch?

i know most games have a little but it feels more like an "immersion" feature rather than something thats supposed to genuinely put your aim off tracks

[fast thistle]

Which is why im suggesting it be an actual weapon stat thats modifiable with attachments

[solid thistle]

aim punch is still an rng mechanic

[fleet pond]

that doesn't sound like it'd solve the problem of trading gunfights being a dice roll

[solid thistle]

my reticle sways into a random direction in response to being hit

[royal sable]

I swear arma had, but it wasn't as ass. (And armour actually did shit)

[placid dagger]

Isn't arma milsim though?

[royal sable]

Yeah haha 😂 brain farted and missed that part

Life without coffee 😔

[placid dagger]

Hey as long as you don't act like you are some giga brain, no problem 🙂

[royal sable]

I'm just keen to get my hands on community servers so I can test my own dumb take live

[fleet pond]

don't think arma 3 had aimpunch but when you start bleeding and are wounded your aim sways hard

[placid dagger]

This is some gourmet idiocy right here

[royal sable]

Sci-fi attachments 🧠

Unless aimpunch is downstream of damage 😂 but damage and velocity vs bullet type/calibre is another can of worms

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message
Imagine if the vector mains in chat could cope enough to realise customizable servers would be the better solution

Rather than removing game mechanics from the game

[royal sable]

eh, the diff between unlocking every gun/attachment for main vs community is quite a gap for casual players

so customisable servers definitely not the answer lol

[fast thistle]

yeah vector main are casuals

[placid dagger]

Mr intellectual not dodging lost arguments because "his brain no work good" by calling people vector mains challenge (impossible)

[royal sable]

time to turn aimpunch into CS on-hit slow and watch movement players foam

[fast thistle]

based lmao

[placid dagger]

Nah gotta turn it into locational damage

If you get shot in the head you turn into @fast thistle

[fast thistle]

elaborate

[royal sable]

As a milsim fan, I would love locational damage. But ttk probs too short to make any debuffs matter haha

[placid dagger]

use your galaxy sized brain, it's pretty simple to understand

and stop dodging arguments you know you've lost mate

kind of intellectually dishonest of you

[viscid rain]

Honestly, it's not a massive thing that swings matches one way or the other.

It does however make it so that if you are landing shots on the enemy, that enemy can't turn around and DPS you because they had a weapon with more DPS (which would then push people towards high DPS weapons as a meta).

I can give the example of Insurgency Sandstorm, where weapons like the FAL are considered meta for the simple reason that they allow you to kill people who've got the drop on you simply because you have the better DPS weapon.

So something like aim flinch keeps lower DPS weapons viable, and adds an element to them that IMO expands player options in what weapons they use.

Plus, from what I've experienced; aim flinch does make the shooting slightly more considered and realistic in that you're pushed towards staying in control over just spraying on reaction.

[placid dagger]

#1133360306278645810 message here scrimmy bingus clearly has the drop on someone yet because of aim punch he loses the fight

dps is a bit of a wonky stat for games like this imo

it can cover very different weapon types making it not ideal to base a disscussion around

aim punch right now favours high rpm weapons because they get to roll the dice more

[viscid rain]

I'd argue this looks to be in favour of aim flinch; the shooter (scrimmy) clearly opened by spraying (effectively missing their initial shots) against a player that had also noticed them.

So the aim flinch here punished a player who sprayed, while rewarding the player who could stay calm and take more accurate shots.

[placid dagger]

The medic had a bandage in hand my friend

He was caught with his pants down and was able to make up for it because of a lucky flinch

scrimmy also hit his initial shots

the medic moved a little making his later shots miss

then the aim punch took care of the rest

[viscid rain]

The bandage may very well have been just down to lag (since his return fire was much faster than the second or so it takes to stow the bandage and take out the gun).

Point is that here the medic managed to turn the situation in his favour by effectively dodging the shots fired at him (punishing spraying by the person who opened fire) while returning more accurate fire (and therefore rewarding the medic, who seemed to have been more skillful in the engagement by being both calm enough to react, and in control enough that they returned accurate fire instead of spraying).

The medic would be equally affected by the flinching, but their ability to react and focus on their own fire put them at an advantage; they managed to get past their initial flich and then return accurate fire against an enemy that was simply spraying at them

[placid dagger]

The point is the medic wasn't more accurate, he was more lucky. If the flinch didn't happen scrimmy would have been shooting at his chest, his aim wasn't off.

[fleet pond]

that first fight against the medic turned into a trade fight if you watch it at quarter speed

[placid dagger]

Since flinch is random you have no way of knowing whether the medic got fucked over the same amount

[fleet pond]

it didn't come down to one spraying and the other not spraying, he got flinched to my head

[placid dagger]

also this much shouldn't even matter since it clearly demonstrates that your initial argument is flawed

flinch helps who is luckier

not who is more skilled

you can also check the second video

where he lands all 3 of his first shots but then gets flinched into oblivion losing the fight

[viscid rain]

At which point we're at square one unless we have the medic's perspective; we don't know if it's down to skill or luck.

That said, we also have to consider that the evidence is effectively a single case (representative of a class of cases, no doubt, but ultimately a class of personal cases).

Whereas the arguement for aim flinch comes down less to instances of individual luck (or lack thereof) and more down to the fact that they, at a match/game wide level serve to increase player choice and immersion, and is therefore better at a match wide level (something that IMO is far more important than the individual level in a game of this scale).

The aim flinch isn't an all encompassing thing. But it's presence in the preponderance of cases makes for better gunplay by making for slightly more natural and interesting reactions to getting shot.

[safe hamlet]

in the first clip, hitting armor gave the medic enough time to recover from flinch and return fire

[fleet pond]

yea and then it became and rng tradefest because of the flinch

the medic did everything right, but ultimately the fight was won because one player got a better dice roll

[placid dagger]

except it doesn't, it lowers player choice simply because people favour higher rpm weapons since they can flinch more making lower rpm weapons even weaker. It also feels artificial taking you out of the game so it negatively effects "immersion" as well

[safe hamlet]

you hit armor

dice roll?

[fleet pond]

you still get aimpunch on armor

[safe hamlet]

no

[fleet pond]

could have sworn you did, don't play with armor outside of a helmet though

[safe hamlet]

when I''m not sniping I main support. you don't get flinch on armor hit

[placid dagger]

that makes it even worse since you don't have a way to replenish armor, so you will never have fair fights after your first 1v1

[fleet pond]

interesting, going to have to check that out. could have sworn I've gotten aimpunched through single-shot helmet breaking headshots from snipers before

[safe hamlet]

oh, you're not always fighting fresh spawns either. never is a silly word there

[viscid rain]

It isn't exactly artificial to react to being shot.

While I partly agree that low recoil-high RPM weapons are an issue past their effective ranges, aim flich works to improve the situation by making each accurate landed shot count give a moment where you can land another shot while the enemy's aim is thrown off, making that high RPM-low recoil combo less effective (if only momentarily).

That said, I'd love to see armour made more effective against low caliber weapons, especially at range; so you can have situations where their low caliber works against them and in favour of the armored player.

[placid dagger]

oh please, you know what I meant and more often than not if you win a gunfight you push up making your chances of encountering a fresh spawn higher

[safe hamlet]

so? you came off a fight, if you get shot of course your survivability for the next fight lowers

[viscid rain]

I do think armour needs some love TbH.

It doesn't feel impactful enough vs things like SMGSs.

But that's a different (albeit related) discussion TbH

[placid dagger]

You are missing the point that low recoil high rpm weapons are more likely to hit the first shot, making your supposed balance crutch their weapon.

[placid dagger]

There's a reason why medic is popular as it is. Being able to reset yourself is an important thing. Losing fights because you had a fight before or got shot randomly does not feel good and is not fun.

[viscid rain]

If you're both spraying; you both deserve to depend on luck.

But if both players are attempting to take accurate shots; the person who takes the first accurate shot and keeps landing them (regardless of RPM) is the person who aim flich benefits.

[misty slate]

why would this be a good thing, making the winner of a fight less likely to win the next reduces the skill gap, I dont see what the benefit is

[placid dagger]

You completely ignored the low recoil bit. If he has low recoil and high rpm, meaning if he doesn't get fucked over by the first shot, which he might not even experience because of armor, he can hit and keep landing shots faster and more accurately than other weapons

[fleet pond]

the amount of bullets you get hit with in a burst with even the slowest RoF automatic weapons are going to flinch you faster than your reaction time. the way you keep saying "accurate shot" is so disengenuous it fuckin stings

[placid dagger]

he has a fixation on "spraying"

[fleet pond]

yeah it seems to boil down to "did you die?" then you are spraying. "did you win the fight" well you had accurate fire...

[viscid rain]

And that's a problem specific to that class of weapons, which IMO is better addressed by addressing that group of weapons (and maybe their interaction with armour) as opposed to throwing out a core game mechanic that overall makes for more interesting and fun matches.

[placid dagger]

honestly it feels like that

[placid dagger]

If the core game mechanic is not fun it is not a loss to throw it out. You can go over this thread if you like, the overwhelming majority of people do not enjoy losing gunfights based on dice rolls. In other words the mechanic isn't fun or interesting for the majority of people who care enough to engage in this thread.

I honestly don't see how aim punch is a fun mechanic for you and would appreciate if you'd elaborate on what you mean by "spraying"

[green dragon]

ah yes i love losing gunfights i start and am already halfway thru b/c opponent gets a hit on me and throws my aim off completely

[fast thistle]

Ah yes, its like how everyone who kills you is either lucky or a cheater, not more skilled than you. And that is why you're a vector user who spent the last 8 hours trying desperately to troll and derail this convo.

[placid dagger]

Mate, you gotta stop calling people vector users for not agreeing to your shitty ideas.

You are the clown who suggested making flinch a stat would make it not random, then completely ignored everything when you realized how stupid that is.

And the only thing that "derailed" the convo was your insufferable tone and brainless suggestions

[fast thistle]

just stop bro

[placid dagger]

Though I wouldn't call it a derailment cause it never got on rails

[fast thistle]

stop hitting yourself

[placid dagger]

Since you had to be a clown and give yourself a bunch of cringe reacts

[placid dagger]

idk about you mate but if we were to go by reacts seems like the community deems you the clown

better go back and react to your own shit so it looks better

oooh

he went back and reacted to my stuff

I can't with this brainlet

[fast thistle]

If my suggestions were brainless you would surely have been able to muster up a counterargument in the 8+ hours you've been shitting up the chat.

actual IRL clown. Does your shoes squeak when you walk?

[placid dagger]

ooof kinda mad that I didn't even take your shit seriously at all?

[fleet pond]

lol he's not mad

[placid dagger]

bro actually thinks he did anything other than be an unpaid clown for us

even bringing up 8 hours as if it doesn't mean he was here being a clown for that long

[fast thistle]

You clearly don't have the mental capacity to take anything besides buffing the vector seriously.

[placid dagger]

I don't even use the vector you clown

[fast thistle]

Anyways, i can feel my IQ becoming lower and lower every time you try to respond.

[placid dagger]

since you care about logic and shit maybe stop with the cringey ad hom

[placid dagger]

nah mate your iq was already at the lower bound

[fast thistle]

keep spamming i might end up in your unfortunate position, really mad and not having the capacity to understand why.

[placid dagger]

so you cannot go further down even if you wanted to

[royal sable]

jebus ): i hate aimpunch 😂

mfw 2x whack af punches in a row, i cannot

[placid dagger]

I honestly wonder what kind of a person you are irl that you would clown on yourself this much

[fast thistle]

If they reworked both the weapon balancing and the average players aim (-∑-), aimpunch wouldn't be seen as much of a problem.

[fleet pond]

what's the yellow, armor?

[fast thistle]

Keep reacting with clown emotes, one day it might actually achieve something.

[placid dagger]

Ad hom again

[placid dagger]

oh mate you have no idea

One day I might reach your level where I have to go into BBR discord and insult everyone's intelligence to feel smart

[fast thistle]

Stop shitting your pants while telling other people it stinks. Its you. Its always been you.

[fleet pond]

kafka i know you wanted some of our stats, but could you post yours? i've also got some preconceived notions i would like to confirm or deny

[placid dagger]

but I'd have to lose 40% of my brain to get there so 🤷‍♂️

[placid dagger]

my brother in christ you are not a clown, at this point you are the entire circus

I was not the only one calling you a clown last night was I?

[fast thistle]

You already did, clearly. My condolances.

[placid dagger]

there are multiple clown reacts on your shit

[placid dagger]

maybe if I took you seriously and tried to argue with you, but alas I don't argue with dumbasses

[placid dagger]

oh mate come on now

you know as well as I do that clowntrap over here won't engage with any argument that criticizes his ideas

he's on that never play defense mindset

[royal sable]

yeah armour for me ):

[fast thistle]

This comment is gold.
You "dont argue with dumbasses", which is true, you didnt. However you did spend over 8 hours desperately trying to bury a suggestion you didn't' like in your faeces. Anyone reading chat can see i predicted your every attempt at trolling, your emotional response and your cope, i could link you the exact comment if you want?
No amount of circlejerking and clown reacting can undo that. Embarassing.

[fleet pond]

i knew that one was going to be good, that took about 10+ minutes of typing and he took a break for a minute in between

[fast thistle]

Ive been begging you to come up with an actual argument, you couldn't. You can't, thats why you're stuck in a timeloop right now. Snap out of it.

[placid dagger]

I didn't try to bury it my friend, I just called you out own your cringey self reacts

[placid dagger]

I'm saying I refuse

I don't argue with dumbasses like I said

you yourself buried your own arguments

under your constant insults and cringey "predictions*

[fast thistle]

Yeah sorry, you're not my number one priority. What do you expect? A kiss on the lips?

[placid dagger]

while calling others emotional take care to not throw a tantrum while calling everyone else a vector user

[fast thistle]

every post youve made today is telling me you can't

[placid dagger]

You've read that I actually had a normal argument with someone who isn't as conceited as you

I refuse to entertain low self-esteem wannabe intellectuals with arguments

all you deserve is the clown reacts you get from multiple people mind you

cause that's what you are

you larp as an intellectual yet your arguments reflect what you truly are

even if you so desperately wanted counter arguments, there have been people who have given you plenty yet you ignored them once you realized your position became indefensible

I hope for your sake that you find something irl that makes you feel like how you perceive yourself so you can stop with the intellectual larp you have here

[fast thistle]

Im not wrong. Its you and three other people in here trying to spam their way to make the devs buff the vector by removing mechanics from the game.
If you dont want aimpunch, aim better, aim faster. You're scared of losing whatever edge you think you have when using a sevely unbalanced weapon.

Cope.

[placid dagger]

My guy

I know some of those people from other threads

none of them want to buff the vector

THAT is an emotional reaction from your part mr intellectual

[fleet pond]

removing aimpunch wouldn't buff the vector. but your suggestion is solely based around nerfing aimpunch for fast RoF weapons while buffing the aimpunch for other

[placid dagger]

Calling everyone who disagrees with you vector goblins is in fact not conducive to argumentation and is emotional

[placid dagger]

He just wants his aim punch crutch

[fast thistle]

Yeah, i know. And it boils down to the same reasoning. Youre scared. You dont need to be, nobody is going to take away the vector. I doubt its going to get nerfed, too many people in the playerbase relies on it.

[placid dagger]

while also saying we have a skill issue

[placid dagger]

my god

I have already told you that I don't use the vector mr clown

and big of you to talk about being scared

[fleet pond]

he does give off the vibe like he wants an uneven advantage in that regard. Armor is supposed to fill that gap, not an imbalanced rng mechanic

[placid dagger]

I'm not the one so scared that my ideas will not get traction that I react to my own post

[stoic terrace]

you are both idiots, try to argue or stfu

[placid dagger]

I'm not the one so insecure that I start insulting people when they disagree

[placid dagger]

come on now mate

don't ruin the fun here

[zenith prairie]

ooh, a heated debate

[placid dagger]

hardly

more like therapy

[stoic terrace]

this is bs that doesn't do anything you trolling dingus

[fast thistle]

removing aimpunch wouldn't buff the vector. but your suggestion is solely based around nerfing aimpunch for fast RoF weapons while buffing the aimpunch for other

😆 I even made it ultra fucking clear by making a tl;dr with bold text and warning emotes for you
#1133360306278645810 message

⚠️ Again, i repeat so there can be no wilful misinterpretations or strawmanning ⚠️ reduce aimpunch across the board.

Look, i did it again, i predicted this whole thing back in my fist ever post in this thread. Fuck im gonna go buy a lottery ticket right now

Suffering from actual illness.

[fast thistle]

I did, you want me to link the posts?

[placid dagger]

yeah better take your meds mate

[fast thistle]

Actual child.

[placid dagger]

funnily enough you couldn't predict that reacting to your own post, insulting people or feeding a troll would reflect badly on you 🤷‍♂️

[fast thistle]

lmao

[fast thistle]

yeah i've fed you, with L's.

[placid dagger]

funniest shit I've heard

[fast thistle]

#battlebit-eng message

I predicted this as well. Im on such a fucking roll today.

[placid dagger]

there is not a single person in the entire thread that thinks you are as intelligent as you portray yourself to be

oof

you unironically called yourself a chad there

the bottomless pit of cringe: @fast thistle

[fleet pond]

that one guy that is in the sekrit discord group had the best suggestion outside of removing it. a cap on how often it can happen and reduced effect

[stoic terrace]

no, your acting like a pseudo intellectual while reacting to a troll

[fast thistle]

Why would i care what others think? I know.
You can't cope with that, that's why you're finally admitting you're actually doing the "i was only pretending to be stupid, epic troll'd" meme.

Your self-crits are doing extra damage right now.

[stoic terrace]

absolute stupidity your convo

[placid dagger]

Lmao even the people who call me an idiot thinks you are an idiot as well

[stoic terrace]

ye just shut up, both you 🤡

[placid dagger]

Nah mate, you don't get to play the "I don't care what other think" card after you preemtively try to get your posts traction with self reactions

you from the start tried to paint yourself as an intellectual

even in the post from battlebit-eng

yet you argue like a child, you use logic like an uneducated ape and you take criticism as well as you take clown reacts

[zenith prairie]

he’s just a little goofy and silly, don’t mind him

[fast thistle]

You claim I didn't try to reason with the shit-tier troll, i offered to bring you proof i did try to argue with him.

But man, i'm just as annoyed as you that vector users hog the chat with their irrelevant spam to bury people who come in here to deliver qualitative posts.
No dev or community manager is going to wade through all the nonsense thats being posted here, which is why I've suggested they clean up and restructure the whole feedback channel.

💤

[zenith prairie]

I would support a vector nerf exclusively so it didn’t constitute half the discussion here

[fast thistle]

based

[placid dagger]

There is a separate thread for it so that idiots like @fast thistle could stop trying to stealth nerf shit they don't like through unfun game mechanics but alas it is easier to call people vector users

[fast thistle]

"stealth nerf"

[placid dagger]

Though that thread has it's own share of little clowntraps

[fast thistle]

💤

[placid dagger]

little baby needs sleep?

having unpopular opinions must be tiring on an ego as fragile as yours I get it

[analog kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/thriller-michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-watching-gif-5577709
Reading the entire conv

[zenith prairie]

Hmm. I am not a fan of the way Kafkatrap argues his point but I think I agree with it. Aim punch from lower damage weapons being lower isn’t really a stealth nerf because it just makes sense, I would go so far as to assume that most new players would intuitively think that anyway

[fast thistle]

based

[fleet pond]

yeah but it says reduce aimpunch across the board which will create a new baseline, then you want it reduced/raised based on arbitrary reasons... like why would LMGs get more aimpunch, they don't fire different ammunition.

[zenith prairie]

Aim punch was set at the level it is now for arbitrary reasons as well, but I don’t know enough about guns to debate LMG specific aim punch

[placid dagger]

The overarching point has been that flinch is just not a fun mechanic to play with. So instead of using it to nerf weapons that are overperforming we can come up with better more creative ways than just these weapons flinch less.

[zenith prairie]

I am fine with removing it also.

But if it is not going to be removed (might not, we don’t know), then I think making it a more sensible mechanic is a good option

Not specifically to nerf anything, more to undo a buff that was arbitrarily introduced (without rebalancing guns with respect to this)

[placid dagger]

Nobody is saying that we should keep it as is just so we can keep our precious vectors

but to able to understand that you need to have some level of reading comprehension that some people seem to lack

[fleet pond]

i just don't want an arbitrary baseline to be set and then some to be propped above it for no real reason

[placid dagger]

there have been posts like these #1133360306278645810 message

[fast thistle]

I'm not saying the roblox game should be balanced according to real life stats, but im pretty sure that most players, gun nerds or not, would think a Light Machine Gun has more firepower than an assault rifle or SMG, even if a certain LMG fires the same kind of ammunition as an assault rifle.

Regardless, as @zenith prairie was saying, its all arbitrary. You're just used to how aimpunch works right now, and you're scared you'd lose the advantage of using a weapon that has 0 recoil and a fire rate of 1200 rpm if aimpunch was reduced compared to weapons with a slower rate of fire.
Im sure you have nothing to fear from a hypothetical balancing suggestion, really.

[stoic terrace]

you tried and failed, apart from that this entire thread just derailed into nearly unusable feedback for the devs, this thread's supposed to help them but whatever, these discussions are nearly useless due to their improper usage rn

[fast thistle]

Which is what i was saying from the very start. The mods needs to remove the trolls and separate the suggestions from the discussions around the suggestions. They could measure the popularity of a suggestion by the amount of clown reacts it recieves. It would be easier to parse through the data.

[zenith prairie]

I think something just like this would work fine, aim punch scaling according to damage per bullet. With blue line being what we have now and black line being something I’d agree with. Also serves well as a way to make DMRs less obsolete

[stoic terrace]

ye just an absolute douchebag

[placid dagger]

All of the people who you argued with want the same thing you do believe it or not. But you can't argue without personally attacking people constantly which causes needless arguments

[placid dagger]

It was like this for a long time before you showed up with your self reactions and got called out on it. Then you proceeded to constantly throw insults at people

How unaware of you are of your own actions is actually impressive

[fast thistle]

I "attacked" you and your buddies because you kept trying to derail the entire thread, you succeed, but at the cost of your mental health.

[placid dagger]

I called you out on your self reacts then you acted like a complete douche

because your fragile ego can't handle the reality of arguments

that is there always will be people who disagree with you

[stoic terrace]

bruh 💀

[fast thistle]

i mean i can take the time out of my day to prove everything im saying, ever wonder why?

[placid dagger]

I had a lot of fun reacting to you shitting yourself

[fleet pond]

So because a LMG looks like a big gun that means it should make your screen bounce more when it shoots you?

[placid dagger]

you on the other hand might have popped a vessel on your already tiny brain

[fast thistle]

Because i'm in the right, you're in the wrong. I'm sincere, you're a self-admitted troll who hangs out in here to spam clown emotes.

[placid dagger]

You being right is your axiom

[fleet pond]

at least whoever reads this will be thoroughly entertained

[placid dagger]

Not for a second did you consider that you might not be right

[stoic terrace]

fr just stop, it just costs you nerves and this idiot gets further validation, do it for your own sake pls

[placid dagger]

Then you expect people to take you seriously

[stoic terrace]

you troll should just leave the internet 💀

[fast thistle]

Yeah im pretty sure its believable that happening if youre catching a bullet with that velocity and force from a light machine gun. Support needs more pro's and less cons in order to be competitive against all the vector medics who's trolling this discord.

[placid dagger]

idk mate I was having a respectful argument before the insecure clown popped his empty head again

[fast thistle]

I mean that goes for sniper rifles as well

[placid dagger]

even now he cannot go a second without mentioning trolling vector medics

[fast thistle]

lmao, ok, thats another thing im willing to disprove by linking posts.

[fast thistle]

The moderation of this server is a joke

[placid dagger]

you have more discord post links than you have braincells at this point

[fleet pond]

With what velocity? It's firing the same round from a barrel roughly the same length as the rifles alongside it.

why does the LMG get more love in this scenario? its got a huge magazine

[solid thistle]

"im right youre wrong"

[fast thistle]

same cartridge =/= same velocity

Besides ive already clarified it shouldnt be balanced on real world data.

[placid dagger]

argues like a child, gets treated like a child, cries

[placid dagger]

ooh we agree on something

[fast thistle]

tell me when to link the posts, everyone can see your replies to them.

[placid dagger]

If I can give you orders I'd tell you to fuck off lmao

[fast thistle]

Because youre offended ive called you out and clowned on you from the start?

yeah that was directed at him

[pearl escarp]

man i like it when insults are thrown during an argument, makes it more entertaining

[placid dagger]

oh now you are remembering shit wrong lmao

[fast thistle]

show me the reciepts then big guy lmao

[placid dagger]

my guy just look at your shitty post that started it

I literally just said "reacting to your own post is a bit low" lmao

[fleet pond]

you should google the barrel length difference between an M4 carbine and an M249 SAW and then look at the velocity difference between the two

just doesn't make any sense to buff LMGs for no reason

[fast thistle]

And i predicted your every move from then on.

[zenith prairie]

If people feel they’re underpowered then there is a reason, I’m not sure what the general sentiment is on that. I don’t think they’re bad but some people say they’re worse ARs

Lots of people have called for better suppression mechanics

[fleet pond]

they're not great but balancing them by giving them strong aim punch isn't the way to do it

[solid thistle]

inb4 thread closed

[placid dagger]

Sure if you say so champ

Especially when you say I did/say shit when I didn't lmao

[analog kiln]

@fast thistle 's suggest if you boil it down is instead of removing aim punch as a mechanic. You could potentially utilize this mechanic as a method of balancing weapons and potentially bringing some weapons that are just utter garbage (Looking at you AK5C), back into play. This isn't a bad suggest imo and could be implemented in multiple ways. ETC: guns with higher caliber or fire bullets with more kinetic energy could potentially have higher flinch potential.

However, it does not address the fundamental issue that the mechanic itself (Aim Punch) is not enjoyable to most of players. In most situations where you are on the receiving end of bad flinch, it often or not feels as though you have been cheated out of a kill and instead was rewarded with a death that is undeserved. It just feels bad. Sure, you can make the argument that you on certain occasions also benefit from flinching your opponent. However, this benefit has no visibilty. There is no indication that you directly benefited from aim punch in a gunfight.
What this means is that the net experience resulting from this mechanic is a net negative: Since when it does benefit you, you don't notice it. But when it acts as a detriment to you, you 100% notice it.

With Kafkatrap's suggestion, you will still on occasion experience these "BS" moments, where the peoples with a gun with higher aimpunch stat will outright kill you at your gun's effective range even though you had good aim. It fails the address the underlying issue which is aim punch as a mechanic is unfun and needs some tuning or outright removal (except snipers)

[fast thistle]

Thank you, finally a GOOD reply.

I unironically appreciate your input

[placid dagger]

if only you were like this when you first posted

[fast thistle]

shut the fuck up, you're boring everyone.

[placid dagger]

could've had a normal argument with people

I love democracy

[zenith prairie]

Although, there is a complication to it. Currently, guns specialised for medium ranges (lower ttk, lower recoil) rely on aim punch quite a bit to be generally decent, as firing first on its own isn’t enough to secure a kill against a faster firing gun. I am not saying aim punch is the only way this works out, but I think something would need to be changed to maintain the viability of mid-range weaponry.

[placid dagger]

This is exactly what we've been saying

The mechanic itself is too random and unenjoyable to be used for balance effectively

[fleet pond]

was basically just a big mash up of what everyone's been saying to him all day

[placid dagger]

If you tone down the mechanic to where it doesn't cause bs moments, why have it in the first place

[fleet pond]

weird to see he took it well

[placid dagger]

If you don't then you deal with a bunch of bs moments that infuriate players

[zenith prairie]

It was well structured and quite self-justifying, not surprising

[placid dagger]

oh believe me it's surprising

starting off with the belief where you are just "right" in a feedback thread is not conducive to receiving criticism which is exactly what happened

but that looks to be over for now so let's not poke the bear

[stoic terrace]

and maybe next time be nice(r) ay?

[placid dagger]

I was plenty nice at the start

no need to entertain self important pricks

dude had an insult regarding people's intelligence in every single post at one point mate

[stoic terrace]

fair point

but u didn't have to be so troll-y in return yk

[zenith prairie]

There’s an argument to be made against the practicality of this, since it extends the debate overall and goes further to throw it off course

[placid dagger]

maybe

I lowkey expect both of our shit to get deleted from here

[stoic terrace]

i just hate seeing such debates, it doesn't help anyone :/

[stoic terrace]

prolly best course of action

[placid dagger]

"I used the stones to destroy the stones" type of moment

[stoic terrace]

ye ye

[zenith prairie]

Honestly, what would make most sense would be a separate forum for each topic where everyone can neatly state their opinions in a forum post and the messy debates can stay in the comments, rather than trying to collect the opinions there... Would take up more space in the sidebar but, not a big deal

[stoic terrace]

now let's go rip each other apart over a silly battlefield, squad, roblox game

[placid dagger]

man I'm sorry for the mods

[stoic terrace]

aimpunch is ok, but poorly implemented imo

[placid dagger]

guys gotta sift through a whole bunch of shit

[stoic terrace]

but srsly, fix that shit and make it good/balanced

[placid dagger]

I'd argue it's inherently not balanceable and should just remain in hardcore for the crowd that enjoys it

From what I've seen hardcore enjoyers shouldn't have a problem finding servers and people to play with

[analog kiln]

Agreed, one method that could potentially be used is limit attachement options for certain guns. (E.g Scorpion Evo has no mag/barrel options), or something like the Vector where there is no Long Barrel/Heavy Barrel Option.
That being said, currently attachments are pretty underwhelming, so this will require a significant rework of the attachements before my suggestion can be somewhat considered practical.

[stoic terrace]

yeah maybe, can't wait for that tbh and add suppression pls i wanna lmg a group

[placid dagger]

agree on the attachments part

attachments desperately need some touch up

[fast thistle]

I hope the mods actually do, at least remove you and your buddies trolling attempts.
But it will keep happening until the root cause is dealt with.

[placid dagger]

Buddy, take the hint. Go away.

Ironically the root cause is you being a little shithead lmao.

[fast thistle]

Thats literally whar i suggested earlier way before the shitter joined the discussion.

[stoic terrace]

ffs get it, either don't be a dick or reason without offending people

[placid dagger]

I'm literally the second post in this thread btw lmao

[placid dagger]

Can't seem to get him to understand that being civil is the first step to argue here.

Even written in the prompt.

[fast thistle]

Just because you and two other dudes coordinate derails in here doesnt mean youre an authorative voice in here. Everyone can see what youre doing with suddenly shifting your attitude to be agreeable and say how you feel sorry for the mods and how you find what happened today inexcusable lmao. You are root of the problem my dude.

[placid dagger]

go away

[fast thistle]

Doesnt surprise me.

[placid dagger]

ooh he got me with the critical comeback

[fast thistle]

🤡

[placid dagger]

the person who takes an average of 30 mins for shitty arguments got me

[stoic terrace]

i'm giving this shit up, i'll just state my opinion and arguing like this is bs, i have hollydays anyways so what does it matter

[fast thistle]

[placid dagger]

can't even type anymore lmao

go take a walk around the block mate

get some fresh air in your lungs

[fast thistle]

Our?

Minor spelling mistake lmao

Just stop, you should have stopped 12 hours ago.

[placid dagger]

you shouldn't have begun

[fast thistle]

Yeah i know you have issues with differing opinions that threaten the vector medic status quo. Deal with it.

[placid dagger]

After 12 hours you still can't come up with a different insult

You can't even stop insulting

[stoic terrace]

man hiking with grandparents is fun, especially if there aren't any idiots on dc

[fast thistle]

Its not an insult, its a factual observation

[placid dagger]

you use it as one dumbass

I can call someone kafkatrap as an insult

it's the usage

[fast thistle]

Still seething

[placid dagger]

If only acting like an intellectual actually meant you were intelligent 🤷‍♂️

[fleet pond]

did you ever look up that muzzle velocity between those two vastly different weapons to justify the belief that one should have more aimpunch over the others

[fast thistle]

Do i need to repeat myself a third time? Yes or no?

[fleet pond]

yes plz

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message

#1133360306278645810 message

Do you want me to quote the relevant parts to make it crystal clear or can you manage?

[placid dagger]

again with the tone

[fleet pond]

the LMG seems like it would be raised up unneccessarily and I just don't know why. if it really just comes down to "it's a big gun" then that's fine. but to pretend like the bullet that comes out the end is physically more powerful despite being same cartridge and leaving end of barrel with barely 1 percent more velocity just makes you look like you're desperately reaching despite not knowing how guns work

[fast thistle]

[fast thistle]

Do you want me to remind of the last time i replied to this comment as well by linking a previous reply?

[safe hamlet]

Yeah LMG shouldn't be more powerful simply because it's an LMG, it should be because of it's ammo count. But since we're talking flinch and not suppression, I feel like it's a moot point. (also, why tf is MG36 3 bullets to kill)

Until we get the HMG emplacement deployable, then that should be stronger (and probably humvee m2hb too)

[fast thistle]

Making the severely limited and disappointing loadout choices of Leader, Assault and Support have something more going for it

[safe hamlet]

Humvee gun is 52 dmg per hit

[stoic terrace]

this isn't the point of this thread

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message

[placid dagger]

humvee gun just suffers from the humvee being weak honestly

and ngl I think it should stay that way

[fast thistle]

actually stupid inside the head

[placid dagger]

still better than having nothing inside the head like you

[stoic terrace]

ok stfu u absolute troglodyte, i was nice to you the whole time and now u insult me you brain amputee

[placid dagger]

I told you, he cannot go a second without looking down on people or just straight up insulting them

[fleet pond]

you don't need to make classes better by introducing an RNG mechanic

[placid dagger]

probably comes from the severe self-esteem issues he deals with regarding his intelligence

[stoic terrace]

tho sup. should have suppression tbh, but prolly only on hardcore

[fast thistle]

Asks for a reason why LMG's should be "buffed"
Gets reason
iT's nOt pArT oF tHiS tHrEaD

y'all trying so hard.... why?

[stoic terrace]

did not ask.

and

[placid dagger]

it was not him you brainlet

[green dragon]

I'm still perplexed, how come both vehicles and players are affected by aim punch

[stoic terrace]

this isn't on topic for the thread

[safe hamlet]

For gun selection, Assault and leader could swap with medic, while support would need more guns instead of buffing existing ones imo. But that's straying to the classes feedback thread so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[green dragon]

a 70 ton tank isn't supposed to be aim punched by a 5kg warhead

[placid dagger]

Probably they implemented it really hastily causing stuff like this to happen

[green dragon]

maybe

[fast thistle]

But it was, wasnt it? It was literally part of my initial suggestion 🤡

Jesus christ

[stoic terrace]

well it does big boom sooo...

[fast thistle]

the brainrot has infected everyone

[fleet pond]

same reason a tandem warhead has AoE, it peepeepoopoo time

[fast thistle]

so why respond with a snide comment?

[placid dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-principal-skinner-skinner-children-out-of-touch-gif-4463952

you are literally a cartoon character at this point

go the fuck away clowntrap

[placid dagger]

OH you'd have the audacity to say shit like this

your entire convo has been snide comments, sneaky insults, straight up insults and a bunch of looking down on people

[safe hamlet]

Vehicle physics weight is too light

[stoic terrace]

man bless the poor bastards that have to moderate this dumpsterfire

[placid dagger]

depending on their sense of humour they might actually have fun

[fast thistle]

Actual reddit brain, y'all just invested in upholding the vector/medic meta status quo and I've clarified why and have been proven right so. many. times.

[stoic terrace]

yeah, but it'll get boring i think

[placid dagger]

reading a brainlet like @fast thistle having a meltdown over realizing he is not talking to his mother so nobody is going to excue his cringey self praise

[fleet pond]

Kafka in your first post you even say "Devs should ignore the vocal minority of players who's feedback is rooted in anger and frustration with the game," yet all you do is complain about vector medics

[placid dagger]

no the fuck we arent you idiot

[fast thistle]

projection again 💤

[placid dagger]

oh ironic

[stoic terrace]

bruh i'm against medics being assault you goober

[fast thistle]

exactly, that part hit wayyy to close to home for @placid dagger, so he spent the next 15 hours having an intellectually dishonest temper tantrum

[placid dagger]

I know you lack the necessary braincells to come up with original insults but commenting "projection" on mine doesn't make you look good

[stoic terrace]

and i also don't use reddit you condescending soggy toast

[placid dagger]

nah I just don't like sub 50 iq pseudo intellectuals like you mate

fuck off now

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message check who im replying to before taking offence

[placid dagger]

you should check who asked you questions before saying shit like this

you have been consistently calling people out on the shit you yourself do

[stoic terrace]

you've offended me multible times now

XD

[placid dagger]

swear to god the man needs help

[fast thistle]

Nah ive mostly been exposing you

successfully too

[stoic terrace]

dude you have the audacity to react to that

[placid dagger]

is that why if we take out each other's reactions you'd be the clear clown of the convo

nobody wants you here

nobody respects you

everyone thinks you are an idiot

you are just as much of a loser here as you are in real life

[fast thistle]

again thinking you're an authority here, just stop cringeposting.

[placid dagger]

go away

[placid dagger]

read the message over it dumbo

oh wait

he can't read if it doesn't fit his narrative

[fast thistle]

Why would i? you've admitted you've been trolling the last 12 hours.

The chat logs dont lie anyway

[placid dagger]

because it provides for the proof you keep asking

lmao chatlogs don't lie exactly

[fast thistle]

Yeah true, i should get better at filtering out utter garbage.

[placid dagger]

you'll find that you've been nothing but a dumb cunt for the past however many hours

[fast thistle]

You trolled yourself to agitation

i can hear you grinding your teeth from over here

[placid dagger]

better check them ears dumbo

[fast thistle]

stop typing now, nobody is interested

[placid dagger]

your teeth are about to fall out

[fast thistle]

i think i know why

Good, you finally realized you should stop typing. Dog bless.

[placid dagger]

Lmao says the dumbass who was asked multiple times to stop typing

[stoic terrace]

bad diet

[fast thistle]

Oh no why did you start again... it was so nice

[stoic terrace]

of a basement dwellee

[placid dagger]

he probably thinks his crayons are edible

[fast thistle]

Crackpipe obviously.

[placid dagger]

You keep saying shit like this meanwhile it was only when your stupid ass was gone we had some civil arguments

[stoic terrace]

you're to smart for drugs 🤓

[stoic terrace]

i mean not on topic per se but an actual rebuttal

[fast thistle]

Well it can only go so far before the person youre trying to have a discussion with themselves admit they do nothing in here but troll.

[stoic terrace]

dude just sad

[placid dagger]

dude is just delusional

[fast thistle]

I know, right. How can he keep this up

[fleet pond]

topkek

[placid dagger]

like he's talking to you @stoic terrace as if you agree with him lmao

[stoic terrace]

tubbick

[placid dagger]

dude's mental has been completely broken

by fucking clown emojis

💀

[fast thistle]

#1133360306278645810 message

[placid dagger]

any points mr clowntrap?

or do I need to read it for you?

can you manage on your own?

[fleet pond]

he labelled himself a troll by your metric because he disagreed with you... it makes you wonder why you engage with the supposed "troll" every time

[placid dagger]

I actually like kafka's work so I'm not gonna address you as that

[stoic terrace]

he no ded fuk

[fast thistle]

"Well it can only go so far before the person youre trying to have a discussion with themselves admit they do nothing in here but troll." (refering to you as the troll, obviously)

dude is just delusional

You admitting you're trolling.
#1133360306278645810 message

Cant even gaslight correctly lmao

[fleet pond]

is he projecting again

[placid dagger]

at least I can argue correctly mr shit for brains

also I don't have a problem with being "labelled" a troll

[fast thistle]

you trying to gaslight yourself now?

[placid dagger]

nah fam

I argued pretty nicely with people before your sorry ass showed up again

you are the one who cannot argue for shit yet blame if on others

skill issue honestly

[fast thistle]

well those poor people probably didnt suggest anything that would threated the effectiveness of your vector

[stoic terrace]

tryna light your ass with gas if you get what i mean XD

[placid dagger]

see this is why nobody likes you

you keep holding on to shit like this and keep bringing it up

even when it's untrue

[peak gulch]

No you didn't

[placid dagger]

Yeti don't butt in rn

seriously you are missing a ton of context

[fast thistle]

Youre not capable of speaking for anyone, not even yourself bruh 💀

[peak gulch]

Just super sayian

[placid dagger]

Yeah don't

[stoic terrace]

well i'd if you didn't cut "our" side of the argument of

[fast thistle]

Ill gladly link you the context if you want. Its me trying to get him to give me a single attempt at a counterargument, he cant, which results in him working himself up, coping and seething for 12 hours.

[peak gulch]

I've read the whole thread

[placid dagger]

as I previously told you I'm basing it off of the reactions we get when we take each other's out

[fast thistle]

my condolances 😦

[placid dagger]

it's quite impressive how you can describe yourself so perfectly yet not realize what you are

[fast thistle]

Elaborate, what am i? 🙂

[inner ivy]

remove or lessen flinch, it turns every gunfight into who is luckiest. its not fun.

[fast thistle]

Yeah, lessen, thats what ive been trying to have a constructive discussion about. But the clown here started derailing the discussion 14 hours ago.

[inner ivy]

i didnt read any of the discussion, i just put in my 2 cents and left

[placid dagger]

don't mind him he likes to refer to himself as "the clown here"

[fast thistle]

reasonable

[placid dagger]

good man

should have been done by clowntrap since he can't handle differing opinions

[fast thistle]

i wouldnt wish @placid dagger cope on anyone 😔

[placid dagger]

I wouldn't wish the fragile ego of @fast thistle on my worst enemy

[fleet pond]

You are being a bit disingenuous there, you want it lessenned across the board... but for some you want the flinch to be below a baseline, then other guns to be higher... So it doesn't matter that you want it to be less, you still want some guns to have an RNG advantage in gunfights

[fast thistle]

This literally started because my confidence rubbed you the wrong way
#1133360306278645810 message

[placid dagger]

confidence? nay you have none of that

overcompensating for lack of it? that's the one

the fun part about reacts is @fast thistle you can see who put them there

[fast thistle]

Sure thing, its not like the chat tells a different story.

My mans literally having a mental health crisis right now

[placid dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/wall-talking-talking-to-self-alone-lonely-gif-5869985

The only type of argument @fast thistle can win

[stoic terrace]

fr fr

[fast thistle]

accurate, you're the brick wall. Daft as a fucking rock

[zenith prairie]

my unabridged, genuine and real-time reaction to this entire argument

[peak gulch]

For real

[placid dagger]

A rock is still more intelligent than you dumbo

[stoic terrace]

most reasonable bbr player

shut

[fast thistle]

understandable, i hope mods do their job and bans us both, but mostly him ofc.

[fast thistle]

Yes, looking at this server i probably am.

[placid dagger]

oof

[stoic terrace]

oouuch

[placid dagger]

@fast thistle self praise

[stoic terrace]

the burn of that

[peak gulch]

ITT mating habits of two terminally online individuals

[fast thistle]

Hey whats your opinion on shotguns being implemented? 🙂

[zenith prairie]

Maybe we should just ping a mod to shut down this argument, at least for now.

[fast thistle]

please do, here's the context: #1133360306278645810 message

i hope mods are getting paid.

[zenith prairie]

The context is the last few hundred messages, if you left it at the original one it would all be fine

[placid dagger]

already did lmao

[zenith prairie]

Did they threaten anything? If so it would be fair to bring them in again to act on it :)

[fast thistle]

Remove the entire thread, restructure the whole thing so suggestions go in one place and discussions and @placid dagger mental health breakdowns go in another place.

[placid dagger]

go away insecure brainlet

[fast thistle]

He's lashing out again, quickly, get the haloperidol!

[peak gulch]

You pair of shitters have thoroughly detailed this thread

[fast thistle]

That includes ~80 comments where i implore him to contribute to the discussion in any way that isnt trolling.

[fast thistle]

nah mostly me because i dont have any trolling to hide

[zenith prairie]

That really doesn’t matter, because you collaborated on lowering its relevancy and quality of debate together :)

[solid thistle]

we should hold a public vote on who should be banned from this convo

[fast thistle]

As i said, at a certain point you have to realize what youre talking to

[pastel shore]

The best thing mods could do to keep these posts on topic is to just mute you.

Mods could straight up delete 90% of comments that were made since you got here, it's all off topic.

[green dragon]

Tldr: game doesn't need aim punch for now

[peak gulch]

I'm happy for aim punch to go as long as they find another method of handling snipers effectively, I'd already say they're too strong in current gameplay but a portion of that is due to map design

[green dragon]

dark screen suppression

[peak gulch]

A suppression mechanic would be a better way to solve that issue

[pastel shore]

Best solution is just that no one gets aimpunched, except snipers get aim punched when hit while using med/long range scopes. Keeps snipers in check but fixes all the other gunplay encounters

I agree that without aim punch, snipesr are OP af. But I also don't think suppression is a good way, because that doesn't require precision and just rewards players for missing shots. If snipers(and only them) can be aim punched, keeping them down at least requires landing a hit or two, suppression would be too effective (or useless if it's not strong enough) since it just requires shooting in the general direction of the sniper, ie, pinging rounds off in the dirt next to him or the rock he's leaning out of

the only change I think would really help vs snipers in general is disabling them in blue zones, so they are forced to enter the actual battlefield. It's not a big problem in conquest, but in frontlines, domination, and rush, there are too many snipers who just never leave their blue zone and it basically means the only thing you can do to interact with them is snipe yourself

[mint token]

I'd prefer we try rebalanced aim flinch (SMG/high RoF do less; lower damage bullets do less) before we start tacking on the exceptions and situational triggers (only snipers get flinched, only LMGs cause flinch, add some arbitrary cooldown, etc)

Start with simple changes, work your way up from there. That's how you approach most problems in life.

Some of my favorite balance changes in game development that I've seen have been a clever tweaking of a single element.

[peak gulch]

Yea, I'm not one for mechanics that only happen under specific conditions, either it happens to everyone or no-one

[fast thistle]

Not going to take your opinion seriously. You're one of those people i mentioned who tries to argue against rational takes and logical suggestions, not out of constructive criticism, but out of antagonism, incessant strawmanning and opposition for oppositions sake.
All because you saw i spoke in favour of the implementation of shotguns, which you interpret as a threat to your relationship with the game via the current meta because you imagine a world where a shotgun could stand even the smallest chance against a vector.
That antagonism flowed over into this thread as well. Deep down you likely agree with me, you just need to conquer your demons first.

I believe in you, live your best life.

shotguns.

stop typing

You have nothing of value to be said.
Unless you're going to apologize.

[pastel shore]

why would the cooldown be arbitrary? It's a way to normalize how often you get aim punched when hit, regardless of the fire rate of your opponents gun - essentially normalizing aim punch with respect to fire rate.

300 ms is an example number, but it's not arbitrary, either. That's 50% higher than the avg human reaction time of 200 ms, which gives players a chance to react and adjust to the aim punch. At the moment, a vector can aim punch every 50 ms - 4 times before the average human can even react.

300 ms would result in most fights having 1, maybe 2 instances of being aim punched per fight, with enough chance to correct for the deviation from aim punch inbetween each instance. The end result is, however, that a vector and a slower fire rate gun like DMR aren't as disproportionately affected by aim punch, which currently massively favors higher fire rate weapons.

[zenith prairie]

what about the average gamer reaction time...

[pastel shore]

still 200 ms 🙂

[green dragon]

200ms is a fair minimum i think. cus i think 100ms human reaction time + input latency of their gear is still in the ballpark of 160+ms

[pastel shore]

even the best, top 0.1% humans aren't getting below 150ms avg reaction times, for the most simple visual stimuli(ie, clicking to a color change)

[mint token]

On the other hand, hardly any guns will "sync" with whatever cooldown is given, making the "rhythm" of the flinch inconsistent.

What do you think of this alternative?
#1133360306278645810 message

[pastel shore]

which isn't a problem at all, because that's how it functions in practice now anyway, since no one has 100% accuracy. It would just be a straight improvement over what we have now, while keeping guns somewhat normalized. 300 ms is long enough so that the vast majority of fights would only have 1 instance of aim punch, anyway, only slower fights would have 2, and an extreme outlier would have more.

Overall it's just a huge improvement over current implementation

[pastel shore]

imo that doesn't solve the issue with the faster fire rate weapons, like vector. Even if there are diminishing returns, it's still just physically impossible to react to that many jumps on your crosshair

[pastel shore]

Another thing - making it based on damage will inevitably cause massive issues with guns that have high dmg, such as the fal and ak15, buffing them to high hell.

Those guns are already s tier guns, can you imagine how awful it would to try and fight them if they aim punched you, a lot, but they didn't get aim punched in return? It would make the fal so OP that any other gun in the game besides bolties would be obsolete. Ak15 would also be immensely powerful, you'd be able to take any fight knowing your opponent has no chance of fighting back unless they were also running those guns. So when it comes down to it, bullet velocity, dmg, bullet caliber, etc aren't good ways to scale aim punch.

[fair summit]

yes, pls buff my AK15/SCAR 😈

[mint token]

I'm making broad suggestions because ideally we can get to the point that there are no "S-tier" guns.

Guns that do high damage per bullet should of course have tradeoffs in handling and fire rate, which would make these higher flinch bullets hit less frequently.

This happens a lot in game balance discussion for any game, where people shoot down balance changes because something else is unbalanced, as if the game will never have other things changed.

[pastel shore]

That's unfortunately not how it works. No matter what you make the numbers, there will always be an S tier weapon.

In the current balance of the game, there's actually a ton of viable weapons. Even the aug is really good if you use it a certain way, despite its extremely poor TTK, because it's so easy to hit headshots with it that good aim can turn its poor TTK into very fast and reliable TTK even at longer ranges.

For example, all the following weapons I consider viable: AK15, G36C, M4A1, Aug, FAL, Famas(with LB), SG550, ScorpionEVO, P90, Groza, all SMGs, both light support guns, M249, L96, M200, M110(with LB), MK14, MP433, Glock18, Unica, Deagle.

That's MOST of the guns. Out of them, really only the vector truly stands out as needing a major nerf, and even that is heavily related to aimpunch. A few could use minor buffs or progression changes(for example, g36c should be a much earlier unlock at like lvl 35-50), but all those guns have a niche or are good enough to use with great effect.

Out of everything, the thing that makes some of these weapons feel so much worse than they SHOULD is aim punch, because that favors the higher fire rate weapons so much, vector specifically benefitting from it so much more than others due to its other stats - large mag size, easy to control recoil, and move speed.

In addition, the LMGs/DMRs aren't widely used/liked because they aren't on medic, which simply means using them leaves you without any self healing.

[analog kiln]

I'd put SCAR_H there as well if you are going to inlcude the MK14

[pastel shore]

I suppose, although I didn't much like it when i played it. Just felt so outshined by AK15/FAL. MK14 felt different enough for me so I felt it ok to include

[stoic terrace]

your doing the ultimax dirty there man 😢

[pastel shore]

I think it's got it's place but is a bit out shined atm. Though maybe in the context of being only avail on support it fills the same role as the aug

[fair summit]

Comparison to the FAL is unfair tbh, but SCAR is a nice side grade to the ak15 imo

[stoic terrace]

ye unfortunatly tho, maybe 34 dmg? as it's already the slower lmg to set up

[pastel shore]

honestly, I kinda changed my mind. It does belong up there on the viable list. It's been a while since I used it, but thinking in the context of aim punch being removed I think it it would be very viable and maybe even better than m249 in vast majority of use cases

[stoic terrace]

maybe yeah, i mostly see it as the slower, cooler looking, more tactical feeling lmg

[pastel shore]

honestly I'd use this all the time if it were avail on medic

[stoic terrace]

💀

[oak jolt]

imo if it's not to be completely removed it should be scaled with interaction distance so cqc gets aimpunched more, and I don't get aimpunched into next week from an smg 100 meters away

[brittle lichen]

bad take

Its simply not a mechanic that enhances the game

[latent lava]

ey
radical idea

we split the control stat into two
one for flinch recovery
and a second one for scope sway (what it currently does? we really need on hover tooltips for the more 'vague' stats)

we also add a stat for how much flinch the weapon does

this way we can tune the recovery and flinch a weapon does on a per weapon basis
with actual numbers to use in balance talks

[fair summit]

Or just remove flinch instead of wasting time trying to make a shit mechanic work

[brittle lichen]

^

[fast thistle]

Flinch recovery sounds good when implemented in conjunction with my suggestion of adding (and tuning down the average amount of) aimpunch as a tangible weapon/attachment stat for further differentiating weapons and attachment balancing.

Alternatively flinch recover could be baked into class balancing, because as everyone knows (even the people pretending they disagree with me, the gang of 4 brainlets who think they own the place because they spam and upvote their own nonsense) that classes need bigger pro's and con's between them to fix the vector medic spam meta.

[fast thistle]

Called it, didn't even take 1 minute before they started spamming clown emojis instead of try to come up with a counterargument.
I'm thinking these guys are actual bots, or they are plants from a competing game company to ruin this community, and they are working in shifts.

[rich iris]

or, your takes are just so absurdly bad that they wish you'd stop posting

doesn't help you talk down to everyone like an asshole

[visual kestrel]

What an entertaining 30 minutes I just had watching modern day gladiatorial combat. Thanks guy.

Anyways removing player agency is bad. Delete aim punch.

[zenith prairie]

Complicating already poorly understood gameplay mechanics is not a solution I will support.

[compact folio]

Feels like i've read divine comedy again. Also maybe implement system from the same old bf? You get hit - your screen shakes but your weapon stays on target

[zenith prairie]

That is quite counterintuitive in my opinion.

[compact folio]

Why exactly?

[zenith prairie]

Because, why would your gun stay still if the rest of your body is moving? Unless it’s anchored on a bipod or something

Ttk is also low enough that it wouldn’t make much of a difference without insane camera shaking

I think discrepancy between camera and weapon movement should be kept fairly low when possible

[fleet pond]

he's still going?

[compact folio]

Well, it still would immerse you while aim punch problem partially goes away. And im not talking about sending your camera into the outer space. Bf3-like aim punch would be good

But ttk point is good enough to scrap the idea. Maybe even remove system as a whole

[zenith prairie]

I have not played any battlefield games so I can’t really comment on that

[fast thistle]

You belong to their troll group, so opinion disregarded.

[fast thistle]

Yeah thats what ive been talking about as well, but these people are intent on misrepresenting others for clout so they can spam clown emotes

And the only clout they can get is in their own group, so its literally just a couple of guys actually destroying the community

[rich iris]

?? i don't know any of these people

you're just a moron

[fast thistle]

Sure. 🙂

[rich iris]

do you even play the game or just spend all your time typing 30 minute essay's in disc?

[fast thistle]

Trying to deflect? not surprising.

[rich iris]

deflect what? you haven't said anything.

[fast thistle]

So im both spending all my time typing 30 minute essays and not saying anything. Decide on what im apparently doing.

[rich iris]

you type a 30 minute essay to suggest ideas that would be a detriment to the gameplay experience. while talking down to everyone who disagrees with you. and while somehow contributing nothing of real value when called out on your behaviour

so, yeah? not saying anything is pretty accurate

[compact folio]

I see you guys are back at it again

[zenith prairie]

I’d describe it as stirring up an aggressive word salad with no provocation

[fast thistle]

Yeah i dont think these people will stop until the game is dead

[rich iris]

the game is in a great spot, just needs flinch gone tbh

[zenith prairie]

I don’t think it’s the worst of the game’s problems

[rich iris]

flinch definitely issue #1 to me but i can understand the class viability complaints

we need an attachments thread

[zenith prairie]

Voting system and game mode design also

[fast thistle]

In comparison to the actual trolling this group of people is doing? You've seen my original points, because ive linked it several times. Its not my problem that these people literally cannot argue against those points, so they strawman, misrepresent and generally cause a scene.

If you think about it everything outside of my actual suggestions is criticizing their behaviour, and in doing so i am the problem? I understand that is how this community works, but its also why its absolute shit.

[rich iris]

your suggestions would make the gameplay loop worse by adding unnecessary bloat to an already disliked mechanic. why would you think it would be well received ever?

[latent lava]

look
you just kinda need to accept when you put ANY sort of balance talk online
some people are gonna agree
some people are gonna call it a stupid take

stop letting people spamming emojis personally get to you

[fast thistle]

intellectual dishonesty is a provocation

[rich iris]

flinch MAYBE has an argument if you have a long ttk. it absolutely doesn't belong in a game with a ttk this low

it's nothing but frustration when an engagement turns into a dice roll

which has already been discussed to death

[fast thistle]

nah slaves to the meta would still be complaining about it

[rich iris]

"slaves to the meta" bruh. flinch isn't fun. if i shoot first but the enemy HAPPENS to get more flinch on me and i lose how is that fair? i didn't lose to a better player. i lost to a random system through no mistake of my own

[zenith prairie]

Would you really deny that it’s just them who are causing a scene here? These interactions don’t happen nearly to the extent we see here with anyone other than you.

It doesn’t matter how well someone can debate, I think a baseline level of respect for people goes quite some way to making those debates that are needed a lot more productive :)

[fast thistle]

for a vector user, aimflinch regardless if its greatly tuned down or not ruins the feeling of having zero recoil on their weapon, thus, not getting as many kills as they would if aimpunch was removed completely.

[rich iris]

what's next, you gonna tell me to just react to the flinch? or just never get shot ever? (hint, this is why fast smg's and flank strats are really popular, can't get flinched if the enemy isn't looking at you)

oh there it is. he's a vector crybaby

[zenith prairie]

If you have explained your points and others disagree without (in your eyes) sufficient justification, you still have nothing to gain by insulting them. Unless you get some entertainment value from people getting annoyed with you.

[fast thistle]

I give what i get, if you saw the convo yesterday it would be clear they were trolling.

[pastel shore]

It's just intended as feedback for "bro, you are being pelted by bullets"

[rich iris]

hey fun fact kafka, the mp5 has the same ttk as the vector with significantly less recoil

you gonna cry about that after the vector gets it's nerf?

[fast thistle]

So if you think im rude, they shouldnt have tried to troll.
Kind of funny how my sincere opinions and good takes can bait the most hardened of trolls

[rich iris]

also that's a wild take up there that vector users would get less kills. i'm pretty sure the prestige 5 (soon to be 6) is using the as val rn with similar success

i think you're just skill gapped

[zenith prairie]

Assuming you are in good faith here (very bold assumption), you would have no reason to stoop to their level (well, worse. You take it further than they do).

[pastel shore]

literally just mute him so he stops derailing the threads. Idk why mods haven't timed him out yet but it's not even worth engaging

[placid dagger]

Here's a simple solution for you oh might warrior of logic, the always right and the gigachad. If the community is "absolute shit", go away.

Honestly surprised that the owner of a galaxy sized brain such as yourself can't see such a simple solution such as this and I a mere mortal had to point it out to you.

[fast thistle]

stop fucking projecting, your troll friends are the ones derailing... speaking of the devil, there he is

[fast thistle]

Youre really trying, so i will not go away. I know you want me to go away because im the only one who can take your limp wristed harassment attempts

[placid dagger]

Hard agree. He's just a petulant child mad that he's not as good as arguing as he thought he was. Just give him a good old block and move on. You can't argue with someone who assumes they are right from the start.

[fast thistle]

every accusation is a confession.

[placid dagger]

Eh, feel free to shout into the void brainlet

[zenith prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/doom-slayer-gif-26381638 kafkatrap is basically this guy, standing alone and badass against the infinite legions of trolls in battlebit discord, making sure to uphold standards of logical justification in all debates he encounters!

[placid dagger]

He thinks he's this guy

https://tenor.com/view/typing-nerd-worm-keyboard-gif-21829734

meanwhile he's this guy

[fast thistle]

This is really epic guys, wow you're really doing it

[compact folio]

Bro is about to get mental trauma for his whole life

[fast thistle]

epic le trol'd

Whats next?

[fast thistle]

Nah we already had @placid dagger mental health crisis yesterday

[placid dagger]

there's no way he's older than 18

[zenith prairie]

The entire conversation is only still going for some forms of entertainment

[placid dagger]

he is in his "I'm an intellectual" phase

[fleet pond]

"Kind of funny how my sincere opinions and good takes can bait the most hardened of trolls"

[compact folio]

But aside from this socrates apology, what is the best way to telegraph a hit to the player if not with a flinch or any form of it?

[fast thistle]

you were here yesterday. You know its true

[zenith prairie]

Perhaps the blood on the screen and the big red damage marker could help

[latent lava]

on screen damage indi-
nvm those are already a thing

[fast thistle]

Suppression, but that isnt punishment for being hit with bullets.

See? it doesnt matter if i write something they agree with, the clow react spam goes on. This is how hard they are coping.

[compact folio]

Yeah, but in the middle of a fight you might not notice it and pouring too much of red jelly on your screen is not good

[placid dagger]

But in that scenario flinch isn't any better

if anything it's worse

[fast thistle]

They want an arcade shooter with a longer TTK and less punishing mechanics, while keeping the vector OP.

They want to dominate casuals to feel better about themselves.

[latent lava]

this isnt payday 2
your not swamped with damage indicators 24/7

you get
like 3 of them
at a time max

[placid dagger]

Even if you were to get swamped with damage indicators

[fast thistle]

Dont say that, you will upset the trolls

[placid dagger]

you'd be dead before you'd get annoyed anyway

since the ttk is low

[compact folio]

True, but still it's the most intuitive way. Ttk of the game is what makes most of ideas here obsolete. So maybe they should just reduce the flinch so much that it would be almost impossible to complain about

[rich iris]

do you really need a damage indicator outside of the red markers?

[placid dagger]

It being intuitive doesn't make up for it being the most frustrating mechanic in this game though.

[pastel shore]

nah I think it's ok as is now. Any more and there's too much screen clutter

[placid dagger]

eh I changed my mind lmao

[fast thistle]

supression is way better than having big red arrows spammed all over your screen, having situational awareness should be rewarded

[compact folio]

Have you ever played cheap asset flips on unity made by 2 year old? That's what it feels like when the only indicator you have is a litlle red marker

[fast thistle]

Good, now apologize

[rich iris]

they have 3 devs, the red indicator is enough screen clutter and it definitelly annoys me less than having my whole fucking screen shake when shot

[fast thistle]

These people literally want babbys first battlefield, not what battlebit was intended to be.
I cant want for devs to add the easy/beginner mode to this game so the trolling and complaining about "advanced" mechanics that might threaten their arcade kd number going up, like suppression, aimpunch, the mere thought of the vector being nerfed.

GENUINE question: what other gameplay features should be removed? The time it takes to switch weapons? Remove recoil? Remove bandaging? Remove vehicles? Remove sprinting?
Oh oh i know, remove ADS and leaning and framing it as "giving an unfair advantage" to players who take cover behind walls as to not expose their whole bodies to their vectors.

Answer the question.

[fleet pond]

wasn't battlebit a failed squad clone for literal years with little traction up until it was made faster paced and the streamzoomers started talking about it?

the idea that you try to pretend like your ideas are "hardcore" is beyond silly, the way you passively-aggressively call everyone who doesn't like aimpunch a casual shows how you are basically a manchild

[placid dagger]

scrimmy mate just block him

let him shout his idiotic ideas into the void

[compact folio]

Bro, you're getting insta clown emojis. At this point you should just leave this conversation and stop loosing your nerve cells

[fleet pond]

yea ur right, but its kind of entertaining to watch lol

[placid dagger]

even in that he couldn't stop himself from insulting people lmao

[placid dagger]

the thread actually looks cohesive when his tantrums are not shown lmao

[fast thistle]

My nerve cells? You mean my brain cells? Nah don't worry, they cant bring me down to their level.

The instant clown emojis further proves my point. These people don't care about suggestions, constructive criticism and reaching a compromise to push for as a community. Their only purpose is disrupting these threads so the status quo they rely on isn't changed.

[fast thistle]

You being stupid isn't an insult, its an observation.

[fleet pond]

People give you constructive criticism but you handwaive it as vector mains.

You can't take criticism because in your eyes the only people who would disagree with you are part of the problem

[fast thistle]

It cant be cohesive unless mods separate the suggestions from the discussions and your spam and trolling.
It was good until you got triggered and spent 24 hours, and counting, coping.

[placid dagger]

Common problem with children going through puberty

[fast thistle]

The criticism has never been constructive, there has been one qualitative response to my suggestion. And that came from outside your organised trolling group.

[fast thistle]

Why you talking about puberty all of a sudden. weirdo.

[placid dagger]

I just check his messages for a split second (for clown emojis ofc) and he's still having a mental breakdown then like the good little unaware clown he is brings up the length of time he has been shitting himself in front of his screen lmao

[fast thistle]

No, i value criticism and qualitative counterarguments. Did you completely disregard what i wrote in my previous response?
I keep asking your troll group to stop it with the logical fallacies and intellectual dishonesty. But you cant, your mission is for this community to suffer and for the game to die.

Your want every aspect that makes the game unique to be removed.

[fleet pond]

aim punch doesn't make the game unique. your word salads aren't qualitative arguments

[fast thistle]

Projection again, i have already stated that you're the one having the mental breakdown. You being backed up by your troll group members says nothing of who's taking W's or taking L's.
Thats for the quality of your arguments to show.

[fast thistle]

Its not word salads, you just lack the intellectual capacity to parse text that contains anything more than "X THING BAD 🤡 hurr durr"

[fast thistle]

this is what an actual feedback channel look like.
No discussions, no clown reacts.
Just a simple suggestion with voting being done through 👍 or 👎, so the community managers or devs dont have to wade through the excrement the trolls flood the discussions with.

I know you agree with me, the reacts youre posting is cope.

Antagonistic cope.

It proves me right

if you pretend to dislike it, it has to be correct.

[fleet pond]

💪 🍌

[tawdry edge]

Can we get a mod in here

[rotund solar]

@late carbon

[brittle lichen]

I just found out aim punch ruin mid range scopes

[green dragon]

ye let's pair aim punch with 100+ ping what could go wrong

[tired oriole]

Don't mind me, just a weekly reminder to remove aimpunch from everything including snipers. I'm going back with my fellow chads to go play the game instead of wasting time on this thread

[marble mural]

gotta update the twiter lgo

[normal sluice]

I finished reading this thread but I don't think @fast thistle ever mentioned why making aimpunch a stat would be beneficial? They kinda just said change it without really explaining.

Also, remove aimpunch (or kneecap it if it has to be there), but keep it on snipers.

[latent lava]

ask and ye shall receive a version with proper transparency

[pastel shore]

Ah goddammit now he's gonna come back

[normal sluice]

He's a bit silly, but I genuinely want to hear the reasoning. Forgive me lmao

[stoic terrace]

bruh he came back again 💀

[placid dagger]

He got lost on the way and started complaining about us "wanting to buff the vector" in the vector thread

[fast thistle]

Yeah, that's what ive been saying this entire time

[placid dagger]

His reasoning is basically "I am right, you are wrong"

Don't engage him or we'll have to make you an honorary member of the "Vector Buffing Clout Chasing Clown Posters Group" /s

[fast thistle]

ive mentioned the aim of reducing the aimpunch and making it a stat at least two times in two tldr posts

you want me to link them?

[fast thistle]

Do you see how -∑- "Diogenes" here is trying to put thoughts in your head instead of letting me answer your question.

[placid dagger]

Thx for the compliment btw. A nice change from your usual barrage of insults 👍

[normal sluice]

Yeah

[stoic terrace]

my man, i have a brain, i can think for my self and have evaluated you to be a pretencious asshole, even to people that where trying to make a reasonable debate with you and others

you're just an annoyance

[crimson palm]

Both of them are, the troll and the one who's feeding it, last 200 messages are just spam

[placid dagger]

idk man I've long since stopped engaging with him outside of clown reacts

he's the one who is insulting people every chance he gets rn