Assault - Feedback

[ripe canyon]

yh

if you can aim fast and reload fast why use light or normal armor?

[earnest echo]

i mean ofc it will feel like a support

to do the run and gun and be selfish on the ammo box gameplay

lmao

[ripe canyon]

that playstyle fit more in medic and enginner, no?

[earnest echo]

i mean they literally gave assault the ranger armor

to do that

[ripe canyon]

oh

[earnest echo]

heck they even gave assault pdw

[frail zinc]

(assault groza meta💪)

[crimson pollen]

there is no way to replenish armor and it slows you down

you also get more mags and other benefits for lighter armor

[ripe canyon]

because that I play enginner without armor and helmet

[crimson pollen]

How is engineer relevant to this discussion?

[ripe canyon]

good question, I'm going to the other channel

[ripe canyon]

ok I love now assault with acr

assault can be better

with more gadgets I think

[crimson pollen]

It already has good passives and gadgets to do its job

You have grapple hook for roof monkey

sledge to blow up walls (kinda meh but you save on C4)

You ADS faster, reload faster

[ripe canyon]

idk I feel he needs 1 or 2 things more and will be great

[crimson pollen]

maybe a few more bandages thats all I can think of

[tender rampart]

needs more bandages (all classes do except medic) and needs a new niche gadget (maybe a knife to finish of dead enemies, making them unable to be revived)

[acoustic mist]

'War Crimes' class

[primal agate]

Yes to more bandages but why would anyone take a gadget that can prevent revives instead of some other gadget that makes you more effective at actually killing people so there's nobody left around to revive.

[tender rampart]

The knife was just an example of a niche gadget assault could get

[shrewd anvil]

a knife to prevent revive would be a cool gadget for assault

[tender rampart]

It should probably also say on the load out customizer the passive buffs that assault gets cause I have a feeling that a lot of people don't know about stuff like the reload speed which is why they don't use the class

[outer cloud]

Why can we have people slinging c4 as fast cqc multikill roomclearing but can't give assault shotguns for slower, non aoe cqc combat?

Is there any actual reasons?

[narrow bison]

balancing, that's the reason, shotguns would either be only good up to 5m and suffer against armor or they'd work up to 30m still suffering from armor but still being a potential 1-shot kill, they're just not fun for players nor good to balance

[primal agate]

C4 throwing speed is definitely a bit absurd right now. For CQC you already have a selection of high RoF weapons available though.

[stone folio]

The actual reason is Oki has a skill issue
As said by themselves: #battlebit-eng message

(which is a bit BS, SMGS can already kill in less than a second

[narrow bison]

ahh interesting to hear but shotguns still would be a nightmare to balance and play against/with

[stone folio]

I wouldn't see a issue, Especially with it being a assault only item, TTK is so low anyway with SMGS and most other weapons, They shouldn't upset the gameplay too much

[narrow bison]

well you can 1 shot people in close range, that's just frustrating af and yes the ttk is low generally but it's already a pain getting rpged point black now imagine that with a 4-7 round tube mag running through a group of people

the only real justification for shotguns would be as a breaching tool but since we have nothing to breach and it's just run and gun without tactics whatsoever they don't really have a place in this game

[stone folio]

SMGs are already run and gun without tactics, so? And again ttk is so low so dying in .2 seconds is not very different to 0 seconds. The RPG issue is splash, Which for our shotgun can be cured with a decreased spread and a lower ROF (I would say 1 full second) to stop it from being a crowed clearer while sticking to it's Alpha striking close range role, Which this game is missing.

@narrow bison (I forgot to reply!)

[narrow bison]

interesting, coming to think of it smgs already serve that role kinda which is why i am/was aposed to shotguns in this game because it would just be more mindless zooming around but maybe this could make the assault class a wonderful mid range and close range class, or if you choose to make it a devastating cqb breacher, maybe give assault the scorpion evo aswell, it's just odd it doesn't have it

but in the way you described their use they could be hella fun

[earnest echo]

run and gun you mean flanking isnt that a tactic?

[stone folio]

Yes! but I'm thinking more along the lines of the eternally moving medic AD strafing and healing

[earnest echo]

i mean you can do that now with assault with that small ammo box and be selfish

[stone folio]

Until that box runs out

and at a slower rate with the possibility of being interrupted for no benefit

[earnest echo]

sure but its still there

something of a big change by a lot

assault can now do assaulting better

may not be good as medic

but its now a thing

use that pdw groza with run and gun on assault

[stone folio]

True, But assault is still being pushed aside by the medic with it's Faster movement, SMG access and same access to useful gadgets (C4 To name the big one)

[earnest echo]

assault can run

as fast as medic right now

wdym?

[outer cloud]

I fail to see the point when C4 is currently used as a rapid fire close range aoe instant kill with effectively a 5 round mag

[stone folio]

One point sure, But still outclassed by medic

[outer cloud]

Only that shotguns would have to kill one by one compared to the C4 killing the whole room instantly

[narrow bison]

you can't reload c4 easily tho, but yeah c4 should probaly be looked at aswell, it's kinda busted but the magnetism kinda nerfs it although that shouldn't be a balancing thing for c4

[earnest echo]

you can reload c4 easily

but they throw faster than a grenade

lmao

[fiery kiln]

What is the point of assault when the medic exists?

[frail zinc]

C4 you actually need to be a few meters away for it to not kill you

[frail zinc]

Better guns, can take ammo kit/sledgehammer/riot shield

[fiery kiln]

The ammo kit is the only one of those I'd use, the sledgehammer feels kinda outclassed by the C4 everyone has. Pickaxe might be a niche use for making rat holes in buildings, but I don't feel like that's enough of a draw. Riot shields don't feel good enough to draw me in tbh

[frail zinc]

Same

But the gun buffs are good

[fiery kiln]

I suppose, but they're not good enough. I'm sure the numbers would show assault is the least used class (not counting leader)

Assault only has niche uses, all other roles are occupied by the other four main classes

[frail zinc]

I doubt it

Assault was decently popular even before the bandage changes

I would say it’s second to medic

Support used to be more popular but it’s been getting less used with time, I think

[fiery kiln]

I can speak only to my experience, but I'm level 140ish and I've never used assault any longer than a few lives, and I barely see it in all of the squads I join.

[frail zinc]

What region are you in?

[fiery kiln]

Assault with the ammo pack for self heals imo is a case of "medic but worse", instead of just healing yourself with a box you have to use your limited bandages and occasionally take some out of your lunch box

[fiery kiln]

NA

[frail zinc]

I have a theory that assault is really unpopular there but I have no stats to back it up

In EU there’s usually about 3 per squad

[fiery kiln]

My anecdotal evidence is that I barely see it

[frail zinc]

I have also heard NA players claiming that most people play medic before so I think it’s overwhelmingly popular there

[fiery kiln]

I can also agree with that assessment

[frail zinc]

No idea why it seems so different

the simple answer is
Americans ☕

[fiery kiln]

If I feel like using "standard infantry" then I use medic, not assault. Self heals are too valuable and nothing assault offers can match that imo

[frail zinc]

Assault can self heal now as well

Everyone can

Medic became waaay less valuable with the heal changes

[fiery kiln]

Only with bandages. Medics are still what I see the most in this region

I barely use mine for self heals because a medic usually is offering heals if I'm in a crowd

But yeah, I didn't consider regional differences to factor in

Perhaps one other thing is SMGs for medics? Medic simply can move really fast and I feel SMGs are a bit overtuned, so if others feel that then medic would still be a top choice

[earnest echo]

you can check the score board too see how many people play assault

[frail zinc]

Personally I don’t think any of the SMGs are top tier guns

So I’m not really bothered with that

[narrow bison]

smgs aren't top weapons

[ripe canyon]

bear in mind, just so you know who you're talking to, this is the lad who discards ttk and thinks high rpm isn't any easier than low rpm

[narrow bison]

a little thought i had, what if that shotgun could be used with the riot shield, just some food for thought tho

[stone folio]

Fun for the user, on the opposite end no as much.

[narrow bison]

imagined it more as an indoor gadget combo, so 10m or less and you still have nades and c4 or mines to counter that so it can still be defended against

but that would only be a possibility if shotguns would come to the game which i don't see happening any time soon

[dapper gull]

It's pretty good now, I see a lot of zoomer sweats running it

[tender rampart]

medic still outclasses assault, for assault to be more useful it needs more bandages (every class besides medic needs more) and it needs some new niche gadgets

[dapper gull]

I don't mind the other classes in general getting more bandaids, but I don't think medic is 100% superior as it used to be

[olive flume]

And again ttk is so low so dying in .2 seconds is not very different to 0 seconds

yea, it absolutely is, lol. Also don't forget shotguns are literally AOE weapons; they don't require precision at all, you don't even need to aim for headshots or aim on target to land hits.

They are absurdly low skill weapons. If you are spraying and praying with a vector, you are missing enough so that a solid aimer can beat you. With a shotgun you'll still get the kill.

netcode also causes major issues with shotguns, the 1hko potential means often you will lose fights you'd win in any other situation because only the first bullet matters, intead of 4-5 like with a vector or other fast firing gun. It makes a massive difference in how it feels to fight them. Shotguns absolutely should be kept out of BB

If you want to 1hko in close range, just use the deagle. That functions exactly like a shotgun, IF you have the aim to hit a headshot.

[fiery kiln]

Maybe they're not top weapons (I disagree) but the playstyle they encourage is, at least in my experience, really strong.

[stone folio]

AOE sure, If you go the cod route and make spread obscenely large + large pellet counts and of course with a low a mount of pellets needed for a kill, Which you should not.

Low skill not as much, Sure you can absolutely shut down fights with a well placed shot but you need that one shot with any misses leaving you open! Spraying and praying with any weapon will lead to your death but the leeway given by Autos (and especially by high fire rate weapons ala vector) mean a decent shot can also get kills they shouldn't! (Par example tracking over a target, Sure you overshot them but the .2 seconds you where over them meant you still got ya kill) where as a well designed shotgun means you need that nice meaty middle. Dukes and other strange movement also can throw off a shotguns first blast and leave them open, Something thats a lot less likely for automatics.

Also why use the deagle? Sure I can hit heads but do you think I'm sweating my ass off to learn to get close range heads on duking opponents I'd much rather learn to fire at unarmoured flesh with our hypothetical shotgun

[frail zinc]

that is not something exclusive to them. that's just because the game is fast paced.

[fiery kiln]

Medics are able to keep up the fast pace better than other classes

[frail zinc]

I think assault does that best

can move slightly faster at base and fast reloads especially are good for this

[fiery kiln]

Perhaps, but I feel like SMGs are too important for that kind of playstyle

[frail zinc]

why?

[fiery kiln]

Moving quickly, especially with an SMG that can give 1.10 movement speed, can let you choose your fights and flanks

I'll try it with assault later though

[dapper gull]

armor has a massive effect on movement speed now

and you can sustainably run light armor with assault

so yeah makes it quite a plus for assault

[frail zinc]

it is true that a couple of them are faster than any assault weapons, but I think 1.05 with light backpack is gonna be about the same as 1.1 with medium? FAL can also get up to 1.15 movement speed

[fiery kiln]

I'm still grinding the short mag for the FAL, interested to see how that goes

[frail zinc]

I personally don't think it's worth it

[fiery kiln]

I've always kitted my medics light though, since I don't see a need to have that many gadgets or anything, so maybe it's a difference in kit?

[frail zinc]

extended mag does more for me

[fiery kiln]

Extended mag kills movement speed which is just unbearable to me now

[frail zinc]

they reduced the impact of that

[unreal escarp]

It feels like it should be less so
But like less making high level armor faster and more so reducing the movement buff of having no armor
Because if you pair no gadgets with no armor and an smg you stop being a human and become a racecar

[olive flume]

There is literally nothing lower skill than shotguns. The only exception is Apex, because they take 2-3 hits to kill, and even then there were patches where they were broken OP.

I take it back - tank/vehicle mains are easier. Noob tubes from modern warfare 2 back in the day, also easier. But no gun that's lower skill.

[fiery kiln]

Yeah, but it's still an effective -.1 movement speed most of the time

[unreal escarp]

Shotguns would not be good in this game for sure
I can see shotguns as like utility things instead of raw pvp weapons but we already have good alternatives

[ripe canyon]

this game has shotguns. just play engi with RPG HEAT

[unreal escarp]

Pfff

[frail zinc]

-3.5% actually

[dapper gull]

tbf you do give up a lot by taking no / light armor

[olive flume]

Even if they are weak, they are still easy, low skill, cheese weapons. Sitting in corners on OBJs, especially game modes like rush, with shotguns would be infuriating to play against even if shotguns are weak. They are just better off left outa the game

[stone folio]

cough cough rpgs and autos with High rates of fire and no recoil cough

[unreal escarp]

I don't know..I just in general feel like the difference in movement speed is barely accounted for considering how vital and important going fast is in the current meta

[frail zinc]

wait no, 2.8? can't remember for sure

[fiery kiln]

Is there some formula for figuring out movement speed? I was in the process of gathering data for that but then the patch dropped which made all of my data irrelevant

[olive flume]

Even RPGs are higher skill than shotguns if I'm being honest, as easy as they are.

And full autos with high rate of fire are an order of magnitude more difficult to use than shotguns, despite their relative easy of use.

[unreal escarp]

Dude I don't mean bad as weak, I mean as 'wouldn't be a good idea here'
Give it a second read 🙏

[olive flume]

ya I am agreeing with you

[stone folio]

You brush your cross hair over someone and suddenly they die, Seems pretty easy to use to me! TTK is slow low here anyway ANY weapon can be used to sit in a corner and blat someone who enters!

[unreal escarp]

A

[frail zinc]

yeah some person found out that attachments make a measurable difference of 20% of what they say they do, 40% before last patch

[fiery kiln]

Like, just add all the parts of the movement speed I guess? But also stowed weapons affect movement speed but not by that much and eh

[unreal escarp]

God I think I might be feeling the post being high af effects ooof
Yeah then I getcha

[olive flume]

And yet, I kill them all the time even if they shoot first, because they're still harder to use than shotguns. A player stationary in a corner with a shotgun is 50x more effective than the same person doing that with a vector

[ripe canyon]

fuck with em. make the shotgun require effective aim by making spread really tight. tighter than other games with tight spread. then they must still aim it

[olive flume]

Shotguns are one thing Oki is 100% correct on; they are better off not being added

[stone folio]

(aka the best kind as in a reply to Ckosmick

[olive flume]

If you want a cqc 1hko weapon, use deagle, hit the headshot

problem solved

[ripe canyon]

isn't that 2 tap not 1

[unreal escarp]

Honestly, either movement speed being clamped or people with slow to move/use weapons getting a controlability buff(other way around with smgs because Jesus I've gotten sniped by umps at 100m away a bunch lately) would make stuff like ARs and DMRs much less of a side feature

[olive flume]

only against helmets

[ripe canyon]

which most people have..

[olive flume]

works fine when I use it, think I had 500 deagle kills my previous prestige

[stone folio]

And most people aren't able to hit moving heads in CQC

[ripe canyon]

leanspam moment

[olive flume]

tfw you argue against shotguns by accident

[unreal escarp]

Mostly due to how fast and snappy movement is
Like even cs has a bit of acceleration and inertia for that reason

People can use and abuse adadad and qeqeqe for great effect and it's horrid

[stone folio]

And saying they need shotguns because it's easier to learn to hit unarmoured flesh than learning to shoot a pinhead in a hurrican?

[ripe canyon]

its like the mfs in halo spamming crouch midair to manipulate their hitbox

[stone folio]

Or dolphin diving cod kids

[olive flume]

by trying to argue you should have shotguns because they're not that low skill; then admitting you need them because low skill.

Shotguns aren't added because oki said skill issue, and oki is right. They shouldn't be added; players who want them have skill issues 🙂

weapons exist in this game that can 1hko in cqc, use those instead of asking for the lowest skill weapon in any fps game to be added; they're bad for the game and oki is correct with that.

[unreal escarp]

Yeah, I'm not saying this should be ice skating, but even a bit of inertia would:

• make the game more lag resilient
• make combat feel more responsive and less deranged
• reduce people's ability to neo matrix out of situations they definitely should not get out of

[ripe canyon]

skill my balls. shotguns look and sound and feel cool. that's why i like them

[stone folio]

I have lesser skill when it comes to precision, I have more when it comes to general flicks and getting close, You do know games aren't just two dudes shooting each other at the drop of a hat? Again TTK is so low shotguns are going to end up being niche smgs with a LOWER effective range

[frail zinc]

which makes them a useless addition, imo

[olive flume]

I have lesser skill when it comes to precision, I have more when it comes to general flicks and getting close,

I don't even know how to respond to this. Getting close and getting a kill is exactly why shotguns are low skill and no one wants them.

[frail zinc]

and people will still complain about them being low skill when they do die to one, even if that's irrational

[stone folio]

it's useless to kill grinders, less so to people to have fun

[stone folio]

why YOU don't want em!

[stone folio]

Like how grass grows and birds fly

[olive flume]

nor does Oki, nor does... well, most players, really

[narrow bison]

also take the reload and pumping - i would hope it to be pump shotguns - into account, you have significant downtime

[dawn vault]

Just use the scorpion as your shotgun 😂

[unreal escarp]

As much as I don't want shotguns, I have to agree focusing mostly on who keeps they mouse on target isn't a good way to dictate skill, and it ignores a huge chunk of what makes fps(see people complaining about you laying mines down to protect your flanks because "that's camping bro")

[ripe canyon]

just stay out of shotgun range 4head

[stone folio]

Sadly it's a Auto

[narrow bison]

only real use tbf that recoil's nuts, but this thing should be on assault
RISE UP ASSAUlT EVO ENJOYERS!

[frail zinc]

I don't want them because my experience with them in other games is that they are a detriment to the experience.

[stone folio]

Cool, I feel like they'd be balanced due to the mechanics Oki has set up (armour, distance of the game and low TTK)

[dawn vault]

I want a shotgun so I can use slug rounds and use them as a snip- oh wait

[unreal escarp]

Ngl I don't see the need for actual snipers(especially as many as we have rights now) when dmrs seem much more fun to counter and are much more easy to balance a bunch of

Even if atm most of them feel like they could use an extra 5 or so damage

[ripe canyon]

dmrs are fun to counter but not fun to use

[olive flume]

That's why I suggested deagle, or even snipers, if you want 1hko. Don't have to keep your mouse on target for that

[unreal escarp]

Idk, the m110 with a long barrel feels very nice, but I feel that should be the standard damage

[ripe canyon]

yeah long barrel m110 should do enough damage to 2 tap everything but exo

[narrow bison]

not even so, i just ignore them and if i get close it's just "huh why didn't he shoot me to death within 1 milisecond " they are just trash rn

[unreal escarp]

Even if they have a damage rise not to be as good upclose as most things, I feel most dmrs should be able to 2 tap between like 100 and 300 meters

Dealing less upclose and farther away

Call it overpenetration or whatever, but it feels like the most balanced way to do it

[ripe canyon]

like snipers current reverse dmg falloff?

[dawn vault]

Yeah but inverted

[unreal escarp]

Yeah, but a parabol instead of just going straight up

[dawn vault]

Basically a log graph

Ah so a sweet spot range

[unreal escarp]

It was my idea for lmgs, but it feels more fitting here

[dawn vault]

Yeee the battlefield curves

[unreal escarp]

Yeee

[dawn vault]

I like what you're thinking

[unreal escarp]

Let smgs be good up close, give ars, lsws, lmgs and dmrs their cool mid range capabilities

A dmr like the M110 dealing 45 damage up close, rising to 55 between 50m and 100m, then following the standard dmr drop with range would:

• keep it's balancing similar as being a sub-par close range option
• allow it to actually perform it's role as a good 2 tapper at medium range
• still allow it to be outperformed by the bolt action guns at farther ranges

Same with something like a Scar H
Dealing 35 damage, and going up to it's 42 damage at 70m or 80m
Then following the standard drop curve
It would be less effective up close, but to remedy this, it could have some of the dummy high recoil reduced as to still allow short bursts at close to mid range

Small cqb focused weapons keep their close range supremacy, but ARs get their own niche as a middle ground between them and dmrs

For lsws and lmgs, the same thing, reduced damage at very close ranges, that increase between 50 and 100 meters to the damage values they have now
A buff to counteract the nerf would be making them more controllable, and perhaps even making bipods a non attachment that just comes along with them

This way you get a more interesting dynamic between weapons at different ranges, without most of them feeling like a variation of "this kills you slower but with less recoil" and "this kills you faster but with more recoil"

[tender rampart]

Shouldn't this be in the dmrs thread

[unreal escarp]

Idk, I feel it fits for ars too, but it definitely should also be there

And assault does use them so..

[ripe canyon]

i wish we had a semi autos thread.

[past pilot]

Overall happy with the update. Been maining Assault and wondering why more people aren't - considering the ads/reload buffs, real game changer for some guns

The only other changes I'd like to see for assault are the ammo box being a stand alone item so the class can have extra utility, and ammo boxes having 4-5 bandages to supply team mates, or get one full replenish of a stack. Though you can carry two boxes so maybe that's greed?

Having the ammo and bandage supply will always outweigh the need for a grapple/shield/hammer. Would love to use the shield for pushes while helping frontline with some ammo and heals

Still a million times better then pre-update, wish baldurs gate wasn't taking most of my free time atm 😄

[manic solstice]

It's better but they kinda still lack the medics upgrades

[frail zinc]

Obviously.
And medic lacks the assault upgrades

That’s the point

[earnest echo]

well......medic still does assaulting better than assault so idk mate lmao

[frail zinc]

Disagree

[junior lake]

Medic- gets nearly all the weapons, moves the fastest out of all classes, infinite healing

[crystal osprey]

look i know assault can get more than 4 bandages carrying ammoboxes
but you know whats better than refilling your 4 bandages?

carrying 20 on spawn

[frail zinc]

it is not the fastest

[junior lake]

It is

Medic gets faster running speed

[frail zinc]

assault and engi both can go faster

[junior lake]

I don’t believe it

They don’t have a running speed buff

[frail zinc]

none of the classes currently have any running speed buffs, I am quite sure

[ripe canyon]

if assault even had just 6 bandages thatd be a huge upgrade

[frail zinc]

they just have different equipment

[junior lake]

Some classes of buff that’s specific to that class

Assault has faster reload

Medic can run faster

[frail zinc]

Not speed

assault has 3 buffs

[junior lake]

Support can build fortifications instantly

I am certain medic has faster running speed

110%

[ripe canyon]

afaik only assault and supp have passive buffs

[frail zinc]

assault and engineer can take light backpacks which gives them 2.5% faster run speed. medic cannot

[olive flume]

all base classes are the same movespeed; this was tested by someone in another thread. Can't remember which one.

Only guns and equipment change it

[ripe canyon]

if anything i think engi could use that speed buff if its real lol

[junior lake]

I swear it said medic has faster base running speed

In that image they showcases all the classes and their traits

[frail zinc]

I think medic and assault at some point in the past had run speed buffs, from what people have said

[junior lake]

I remember reading it there

[ripe canyon]

if anything isnt engi faster with empty armor, empty helmet, and an smg

[frail zinc]

empty armour and helmet don't make you faster

they boost aim down speed

[junior lake]

Fuck that is blurry

[ripe canyon]

could have sworn that at least body armor and backpack effected move speed

[junior lake]

I don’t see faster running speed in this

I see faster bandage and dragging

I swear it said faster running speed

[frail zinc]

nah

[dapper gull]

They do

[dawn vault]

@gusty idol

[gusty idol]

just wondering if assault is meant to be spec ops kind of thing, maybe they can have reduced footstep sounds when not sprinting

[dawn vault]

Recon class be like

[raw nebula]

Would be better for recon

Assault feels like it's supposed to be a frontline brawler

[dawn vault]

Assault, you hear their ass cheeks clapping from a further distance 😂

Except that it sucks at brawling compared to medic because of the heal

And the 1 use armour is just bruh

Besides grapple, there's nothing impactful assault has over medic

[narrow bison]

THICC armor

[dawn vault]

Still single use 😂

[narrow bison]

ye absolute garbage

[raw nebula]

Assault should be able to use medium armor with no speed penalty

Or a lesser penalty

[frail zinc]

then we also need more incentive for light armour

making features redundant is not something I will support.

[narrow bison]

make it have more bandages?

[frail zinc]

the point of medium armour is mainly to carry more stuff

that's what ranger armour is for

[outer cloud]

Starting to feel like armour should just be a health increase really

If we're not going to get some way to restore it

[dawn vault]

Single use for a lifetime debuff only worth for players who can't live through a single fight 😂

[dire spire]

Gonna repost past idea...

Assault gains access to modified exo class armor and an armor repair box that works like ammo boxes.

Assault specific armor has penalties 1 class lower in exchange for reduced ammo capacity.
Assault Light Armor has the penalties of medium armor and carries 5 extra clips for primary 3 extra for secondary or whatever.
Assault Medium Armor has the penalties of light armor and carries 4 for primary 2 for secondary.

[gusty idol]

just saying but assault should have access to heavy helmet

It’s currently support exclusive but everyone just uses exo

[raw nebula]

A better way would be to do similar to how Support currently is and just provide a percentage reduced reduction to armor speed penalty. Not as much as supports but more than nothing

I suppose after a while it gets into "what's the point" territory

[dire spire]

part of it may be how exo is objectively cooler looking
i like my helmets with earpro and goggles
fashion > function

[pearl sage]

I have thrown this out before but I think a secondary belt that takes the place of a second utility slot could be cool that would allow you to carry a second type of grenade of your choosing could be an interesting idea

[narrow bison]

gib scorpion pls

[last moth]

give points when friends use your rope...

[tender rampart]

have 10 bandages by default (this should be in every class imo)

*except medic

[narrow bison]

gib scorpion and more banaid

[rocky bloom]

Please devs, all I ask is that you improve the consistency of smoke launcher clouds, and let me swing the sledge without needing to be looking directly at something

[narrow bison]

why no scorpion

[dawn vault]

Inb4 forgor

[narrow bison]

what does inb4 mean

[dawn vault]

In before the devs just forgot about it 😂

[narrow bison]

ah k thx

there's no reason ass-ault doesn't have it, it wouldn't be broken.

[woeful lance]

M72 for the secondary gadget.
Why? To give assault more versatility and fighting chance against vehicle users.
Make it assault exclusive.
Make it obviously worse than the RPG-7 but not too bad. It should be able to destroy a tank with enough persistency. Obviously would be disposable and you'll carry like 3 with heavy bacpack. Could be used to open walls from afar, take snipers off rooftops, attack groups of players and whatnot.

[dawn vault]

Give it a slight bounce/delay before exploding. So it's different to direct fire RPG.

[rocky bloom]

Alternatively, a grenade rifle or rifle grenade would be good.

[narrow bison]

give assault the evo

[dire spire]

So, in summary:
Assault gets access to Heavy helmets, special Assault EXO armor, and across the board it has one step lowered penalties for wearing armor.
Assault gets an armor repair kit that works like an ammobox

[ripe canyon]

i wish that riot shield deflects gave you xp so i could be incentivized to ride in the outside seat of a blackhawk and soak up shots for the frens inside
or to eat shots crouched in front of a comrades body as portable cover for a medic to put him back together

[rocky bloom]

That or ready or not style sidearm wielding

[dire spire]

I've had the idea before of different shield types
a larger shield that covers everything, a medium weight shield that can be clumsily worked with a sidearm, and a very light shield that covers the head, part of the torso, but can be used with little penalty

[manic solstice]

Honestly the biggest issue with assault imo is even all the minor combat buffs doesn't add up to the time saved from 1 second bandages vs 5 second bandages.

Being able to replace armor would be a step in the right direction, but I feel people need more bandages on em 6/8 vs 4.
Medics are 90% of the server because 1 second bandages + the self healing update means if you get one shot on em with one good and if it makes em bleed or two they will heal up all the damage or like 80% of it

A good example is the faster reload might save 0.3 to 0.6 on a faster reload BUT think of every time you bleed that stops your push for 5 whole seconds.

You would have to reload 13 times inbetween each bandage for medics time saver to not be better. Also this bonus becomes less and less noticeable if you emergency reload as 30% of half reload time really becomes a .10 or .2 save most the time
Also 30% faster weapon swap isn't that big of a deal in the terms most the TTK's of meta strong guns are sub 0.3, so making your swap 0.7 vs 1 will rarely save you unless the enemy flat out misses every shot.
30% faster ADS helps a bit but most the time SMG's/PDW/Carbines match your ADS speed with this buff on w/ a medium scope so the issue of again just putting you on par there

All assault really offers the team is aggressive grappling hook, but most the time that turns into a negative because they dont cut the rope and the enemy starts using the positions they've made.

Shield is alright but everyone prob has c4 or rpg

Pick is good with DMR's but snipers can also use the pick+dmr (or sniper)

Small ammo kit is the only really good one, since 8 bandages total (but you have to interact and use which adds down time for a few seconds even more a medic doesn't need to do with their 20 bandages

[narrow bison]

the shield is so sad to use
might aswell not have another gadget slot or use small ammo kit

[manic solstice]

If we're looking at games where assault exist in battlefield, aka closest class system

1. Battlefield 1942 -> Has automatics that suffered 0 bullet drop
2. Battlefield 2 -> Has body armor taking a flat 33% less damage from torso hits
3. 2142 -> Is just the medic
4. BF:BC -> Is essentially stuck with current support weapons slowing them down (LMG's)
5. BF3 -> Is just the medic
6. BF4 -> Is just the medic
7. BF1 -> Limited to SMG and the primary AT class
8. BF5 -> Wide pool of guns designed for any range + AT weaponry

4 Battlefield games just say remove assault and make it medic
-Feels what this game does with current medics existence, but lets you choose medic but worst
1 Battlefield game just gave them access to CQC only guns
-SMG's become assault only, no one wants that because everyone plays medic and want to use the ez mode broken SMG's.
1 Battlefield game just gave them access to the best guns
-SMG's become assault only, no one wants that because everyone plays medic and want to use the ez mode broken SMG/P90/Groza, also gives engineer less purpose
1 Battlefield game just gave them flat damage reduction all the time and a gun made for any range
-Only other real way but I dont think people will enjoy having to put 1-2 more bullets into an assault, since class readability can be difficult
1 Battlefield game just made them the most diverse weapon pool for type of guns
-Since everyone plays medic since it's got the biggest weapon pool, no one also wants this

Small ammo kit makes you almost have 1/2 (half) the bandages a medic has (but i mean they technically have infinite healing... so more 1/∞ the healing they have

Honestly the most interesting would be bad company 2 of give assault the ammo kit, give support the med kit.

Would be less borked as they lack the 40 Mike Mike spam

[raw nebula]

Disagree with the train of thought that everyone plays medic because SMG, they play medic because SMG+self healing+speed and only because it's available

Assault feels like it lacks a role, would be nice if that role was more defined either by: Increasing its capacity to fulfil a role or decreasing the capacity of other classes to fulfil that role, or more probably a combination of the two

It's ok to make classes less fun if the overall aggregate makes the game more fun

Assault feels like it should be a frontline brawler, but the tools at its disposal are lackluster (looking at you, riot shield and flashbang). In brawling range the medic beats it, in medium range it's nothing special, and at longer range it's just sniper/support food.

Adding some aggression to the shield such as being able to use pistol, or have the shield block bullets from behind when unequipped would be fun, maybe put a 1-use breaching charge on the front so you can just blow open a wall then run through.

Limiting C4 to assault and engineer might also make it more popular/usable in comparison, I think assault should really have the role medic currently occupies as the in-you-face frontline brawler

The reason you go SMG medic is because it's meta and you need to be meta to fight meta, curtailing that meta might make other gameplay styles shine more and change the play dynamic considerably

I am the fun police who believe weapons should be more class specific, with the advantages the weapon provides offset by the disadvantages of the class.

Eg. If SMGs were recon/enginner only, the CQC potential is offset by weak armor for recon or slower move speed for engineer

(that's an example, I'm not saying that should happen)

[frail zinc]

it's a 2x speed increase, is it not? fairly sure it's 2 second vs 4 second

[rocky bloom]

None of assaults buffs are a 2x

[frail zinc]

I mean the medic bandaging speed.

[rocky bloom]

Ohhhh fair enough. Whatever it is, it's definitely a significant advantage in any extended engagement

As assault, you might be able to get 2 people, but the third guy will almost always get you because you need to both bandage and reload, and you can only do one before he finds you.

Medic can do both in usually the same time it takes assault to do one of those

[frail zinc]

Assault reloads faster than medic so it would more be like medic does both while assault has only done 1.5

[rocky bloom]

That does give the medic plenty of time to either bandage again or use the infinite heal box to get to full health. Meanwhile the assault has maybe 60-70 health. The games frontline class is not the games current premiere frontliner.

Assault compared to medic has:

-The same or less killing power vs infantry, less if you're looking at close range, with the sole exception of the pdws and famas

-The same killing potential vs most vehicles

-Less staying potential, especially when doing a solo flank

-And less movement speed

Meanwhile what is supposedly a dedicated support class can zoom around at mach speed, healing whatever doesn't kill them, and still being better at most engagements because smgs have faster aim down and reloads than most ars.

I say rework self bandaging to be the same for all classes. Leave the faster bandage speed for medic when used on other people, and maybe slightly accelerate assaults self bandage. Slightly buff assaults draw speed more.

As it is, most of assaults loadout and role is rather lackluster. The smoke launcher is useful but inconsistent, sometimes allowing people to see out of it just fine, while making it impossible to see into. Or people just see right through it no matter what. The shield is cool, but provides no incentive to use it. The sledge is fun, qnd probably my favorite heavy gadget, but falls off to c4, since at least c4 is instant and kills whoever is on the other side. It can't really be used as a weapon except on oblivious snipers. Small ammo box is not always useful, since sometimes you just die before you can use it. And the grappling hook... is actually ok, but tends to be situational dependant on map. He has no unique gadgets or throwables, at least none worth using(see shield). And I say all this as someone who mains assault most of the time, and in fact prestiged because of assault.

My apologies for the essay.

[frail zinc]

This is false. The movement speed at base is the same, though assault can actually be faster as it has access to the light backpack (medic does not)

[frail zinc]

I would definitely say that is the other way around. Being able to aim, reload and switch weapons faster very much helps in situations where you need to fight many people quickly

[frail zinc]

If we were to compare them like this then assault AR reloads are faster than medic SMG reloads

[rocky bloom]

Most medics run ranger armor and an smg, giving them at least a 10% speed buff over assaults. The aim buff makes most assault rifles just on par with smgs. The reload is great and all, and I do appreciate it, but the thing that gives medics their frontline power is their healing potential. A good medic can keep going forever so long as they position good and win gun duels. They can do this in quick succession as well. An assault will fight a battle of attrition qnd lose out quickly due to needing two bandages after a gun duel to stay at full health.

[stone folio]

Yea assaults vs medics problem is that a medic is eternally “fresh” while assaults have to deal with more wear as fights go on

[rocky bloom]

A medic can win 20 gun duels. An assault can win 3.

[distant fiber]

Wonder who criticized tying healing to fucking bandages wouldn't solve the healing problem everybody but medic has. Definitely not a lot of people before the changes.

[rocky bloom]

I acknowledge the light backpack, but I rarely see people using it. Additionally, it's only a 2.5% difference, while the medics weapon selection gives them a 7.5% advantage.

[distant fiber]

Give assault all the little buffs you can, people will still want to play medic because it allows them to sustain their health reliably.

[rocky bloom]

Could always nerf medics bandage capacity, and tie medics res power to the medkit

[distant fiber]

Or you can give other classes reliable health sustain which is better for the health of the game

[rocky bloom]

I don't care too much what the devs do so long as they actually give assault a viable niche

And make medic not a 75% pick rate or whatever it is

[frail zinc]

Ranger armour is the same as medium armour for speed, so that’s kinda the baseline for speed and assault has access to it as well.
The SMGs may have 0.1 higher movement speed but in reality that translates to like 1-2% faster run speed
Some weapons assault has are 1.05 anyway so the difference would be smaller.

[rocky bloom]

Yeah, it's a minor complaint I know. It just feels like everytime somebody does the airstrafe matrix dodge to escape my entire mag, it's a medic.

[frail zinc]

Would that not just be because medics are popular

(Also, what server region are you in? Just wondering)

[rocky bloom]

Maybe? And NA... West? Don't know if there's 2 separate regions.

[frail zinc]

Mm, ok

It does seem that medic is far more popular in NA than EU for whatever reason

[rocky bloom]

Couldn't tell you why, mate.

[narrow bison]

we have a lot of medics, a lot of combat medics aswell, here in eu

[frail zinc]

it does not seem a majority though

not much different in popularity than assault or engineer, it seems

[rocky bloom]

It got better with the self healing update and the ultimax buff, but medic is still a majority most of the time. And it doesn't help that all the sweaty people tend to play medic.

[manic solstice]

Self healing buff really buffed medic further
->40 hp when you bandage
->medic bandages faster

Bleed the medic
->spends 2 seconds goes from 20->60
->spends 1 second healing -> 60->100
20->19 bandages

Assault
->spends 5 seconds going 20->60
->spends 5 seconds going 60->100
8/4->6/2 bandages left

[dapper gull]

I thought medic bandages don't heal

[earnest echo]

they do if its from bleed

[trim swan]

I feel healing from 60 to 100 takes longer than 1s but the point won't change

[raw nebula]

Medics speed shouldn't be unestimated as a huge factor to it's frontline performance, in a fast movement game like this it's almost akin to armor as they zip around. Remove SMG/PDW from medic and give AR/Carbine only as a shadow-buff to assault, I think you'll see a lot more assaults taking that frontline role

Especially in a game where positioning and back-capping is so rewarded

[frail zinc]

I am pretty sure these time numbers are incorrect

[raw nebula]

If we can't do anything about medic self-healing, give them less abusable weapons.

[rocky bloom]

They probably are, but that doesn't change that thats basically what happens

[frail zinc]

it quite directly does

[rocky bloom]

According to the wiki, the medic bandages twice as fast as any other class. The medic can be at 80+ health before an assault can even start on his second bandage. Thats the point trying to be made up there.

[dapper gull]

well you can only bandadge once to get rid of the bleed

personally, i wouldn't mind if medic bandadges have no self-heal

[acoustic mist]

I think they changed that once all classess were given the ability to self-heal with bandages, though I don't see why a medic would waste a bandage on himself when he has a unlimited use medic-box

[rocky bloom]

The problem with only bandaging once is that it leaves you at a health deficit, and 25 health can be a lot when facing anyone with an smg

[shell pawn]

I use Assault much more often now because of the DMR change.
Main reason to run DMRs with Assault is to have more Bandages & Ammo with the small ammo kits, but I would never pick him to play ARs, SMGs etc.
Currently he feels like a more self-reliant/ survivable recon.

In my opinion Assault's biggest issues are that he doesn't have anything to help the team (Support - Ammo, Medic - Healing) or anything that makes him attractive for egoistical reasons (ie. self healing as Medic, RPGs as Engineer)

His current passive is not worth choosing him over other classes, since he cannot utilize it. You can't survive more than 2-3 fights and you are at a disadvantage because you won't enter fights with full health like medic, so having an advantage in 1v1 situations (quicker ads, faster reload) will maybe help you get 1 extra kill.

I'd love to see him get something to help the team, like being able to replenish armor or something to make him worth to you as a solo, ie. HE grenade launcher like M32 grenade launcher/ replenish your own armor (rn that reason is DMRs better with Assault than Recon/ Engi, only reason I pick Assault).

TLDR: His ''combat buff'' passive abilities can't really be utilized because he can't survive more than 3 fights.

[narrow bison]

you can survive more fights with assault*
||*if you use a suppressed gun, are flanking and have plenty of contact with medics throughout||

[shell pawn]

Yeah thats why I use him with DMR. Can survive infinitely sitting in a window, but trying to play like ''SMG Medic'' is not possible.
His passives sound like he should be the ''rush with smgs-/ main combat class,'' but he is just a recon with more ammo & +4 bandages rn (for me)

Medics don't heal enough unless you're camping the same room with them. Sometimes they can't get to you and I often die once I start hunting down a Medic or Support.
Prefer being able to kill 1 guy, heal to 100, kill another, etc than giving up my flank just to restock on bandages/ find a medic. Not many medics around if youre flanking or stuck in an enemy surrounded building (or theyre too busy killing)

[narrow bison]

you can use it like an smg medic to some extent, i just do some quick in 'n out flanks and fire fights with the val, kinda feels like how smgs should behave with the recoil and such

[shell pawn]

You can do it but imo Medic is better at that role. Maybe I haven't played Assault enough though
(Maybe you get hit less often than me while flanking and tend to run out of Ammo more often than HP/ Bandages, if that's the case very valid point)

[frail zinc]

The way I see it, being able to carry around an ammo kit just means you can go from ranger to medium armour and gain extra durability basically for free

[craggy summit]

Honestly the ability for an Assault to replenish armor sounds based as hell. Considering there's currently no way for a player to restock on their armor, aside from dying and respawning, an Assault-Support combo could have some nice staying power if the latter uses Exo armor. There's room for teamwork with that idea.

[craggy summit]

Yeah this sums up my thoughts really well. Currently the only 'staying power' an Assault can give themselves an edge on versus a medic is in primary weapon ammo via the small ammo kit. But that's not very relevant when Ranger armor exists.

Imo one way to potentially give the Assault a slight edge on that front and some teamwork potential is to give them the ability to replenish their armor. Maybe similar to support, they could drop a single "Armor Kit" per life which allows you to replenish your helmet + body armor by interacting with it. The armor bag could hold up to three recharges before it disappears.

Ideally the Assault should be the top pick if you just want to brainlessly run around getting kills, and even though this may be a little stupid in theory, I think making Assaults earn bonus XP from offensive actions such as killing enemies, destroying rally points, blowing up enemy landmines, etc would be nice.

Currently most classes gain a bonus amount of XP on top of the regular amount when they gain score from something relevant to their class. Medics get more XP from stopping bleeds and reviving players than the other classes do. Engineers gain more XP from destroying enemy vehicles than the other classes do. Leaders gain bonus XP when getting "Squad objective followed" ticks. Supports gain XP via resupplying. If the Assault class gained more XP from kills/equipment destruction, it could make it a nice set of training wheels for new players or anyone looking to jumpstart their XP gain.

[rocky bloom]

YES. Bl0wnie knows whats up.

Even just an extra 50xp per kill would make it more worthwhile and distinctive

And armor pack would give assault a niche again

[frail zinc]

Maybe more exp for capturing objectives would make more sense?

[craggy summit]

Technically the Leader already has that

You get a shit load of bonus XP as a Leader if your squad captures objectives that you have marked. Not many know this because nobody plays Leader.

[frail zinc]

that class barely exists anymore

[rocky bloom]

Does Leader even get any buffs or anything? Or is it literally just the bonus obj xp?

[craggy summit]

It can carry 5 bandages instead of 4, it's the only class that can equip the drone and use an AR, and iirc they get a unique hat.

[rocky bloom]

Wiki says they get an extra grenade too

[craggy summit]

Yup, that's correct

[rocky bloom]

But honestly having the assaults gun buffs seems more worthwhile than running leader

[craggy summit]

I play Leader a lot in 32v32 because you can farm XP by marking objectives.

My personal take is that when you're doing something that your class should be doing, you should gain bonus XP from it as a soft way to encourage you to play your role.

Leader should get bonus XP from teammates spawning in their rally points, as well as a passive XP gain whenever players in your squad complete objectives and are fairly close to you (Within 100 meters or so, so Leaders don't just camp at spawn and get XP).

Assaults should get bonus XP from assaulting. Gun and grenade kills, destroying landmines, destroying rally points, Assists, and "Attacked the Objective" kills.

Medics should get bonus XP from healing in general. Reviving, stopping bleeds, etc.

Supports should get bonus XP from playing defensively and providing ammunition. "Defended the Objective" bonus XP when killing should be doubled when playing Support, and landmine kills should give extra XP to a Support.

Recons stand as the odd one out as you can't really spot like in BF4 and they don't have any gadgets that mark out enemies for the team. Imo bonus XP for Assists or for killing enemies that have recently harmed a teammate would help encourage watching over your team with that sniper rifle / DMR instead of lone-wolfing it.

@rocky bloom Thoughts on this?

[rocky bloom]

I largely agree. I think you could add a slight boost to the exp gain of people when nearby their squad leader, to encourage squad cohesion. Recon is kinda weird, and unless they rework the spotting system, I think the way it should work is yeah, taking out enemies nearby your squad, or that have recently harmed your squadmates should grant a boost.

The devs, in my opinion, need to lean into the milsim aspect of the game a little more. particularly in terms of team play.

[craggy summit]

One important way of doing this imo is to softly encourage it, rather than force it by punishing the dominant playstyles.

XP boosts and such.

Granted if something gets too egregious the nerf hammer should strike it down but imo speed medic players shouldn't get neutered. Rather, there should be more encouragements to try other playstyles.

[rocky bloom]

I don't want to neuter medics, and them being faster than the other classes makes sense to me. I just don't ever want medics to be the "top competitive pick"

TF2 and Planetside balanced their classes in q way that made it so having a balanced assortment of classes was the best way to win.

I do agree with the idea that picking other classes should be encouraged, and I hope the devs see this.

[dire spire]

Hum.
I wonder, a sharper reload boost to something like 40%? I will also note not everyone is using the fastest weapon...

[dire spire]

I'd really like some additional customization options
Special medical equipment that maybe applies stronger healing but over time or can quickly stop bleeding but heals less, allowing for either faster recovery or more aggression, different ballistic shields that can allow for aggressive assaults through gunlines or breaching walls in full view of defenders.

I've posted this before, but:
aggressive shield that covers head, torso, can cover legs if crouched, gives you sidearm. classic tactical game shield.
no special resistances.

breaching shield that requires both hands, but covers full body and smashes walls above certain movement speed (when sprinting at full tilt you'll break walls on contact)

Maybe also an increased XP gain for objective kills, or faster climbing grapples and having your sidearm out while doing it.

Assault I envision as the "Here's an enemy strong point how do you storm it?" class.
Go in with light armor and flashes, killing in fast CQC. Or push up with exo chestplate, heavy helmet, and a shield, forcing your way in.
Assault is an empty toolkit and the player puts it together.

Maybe you want to skirmish and then rush with assault rifle and grenades. Maybe you want to sap an enemy bunker with explosives and then shoot the one coming to investigate with a suppressed gun.

[raw nebula]

Assault being able to bandage at the same speed as medic would be be good

[manic solstice]

wouldn't matter being at full hp faster is way important, because even 50% reload would be lets see depending on the gun with a quick mag might save you 1 second max?

Medic essentially needs to get neutered, there isn't a game where medic is as powerful as assault

---

All the versions of class based games Medic is either really good at a certain range (close/mid) or mixed in with assault

Battlefield medics are at a specific range (SMG with BF5/1942/2, BF1/BC2 Mid range)
Are infused with medic (BF3/4)
Planetside 2 Doesn't have the mobility or carbines that are generally better up close of the light assault, doesn't have the heavy armor and lmgs of heavy assault which are just super rifles.

Lets look at battlebit medics... Hmmm

Has the highest mobility so closest of light assault, as it has good positioning
Is actually just as bulky as assault as they have access to the same armors, and has access to the best armors. So in reality with it's faster healing it's the bulkiest class in the game other then support.
It has access to guns good at all ranges from 0-200m which is most engagements (Fal/Scar/SMG/P90/MP5) so really the assault can only compete at 200m+ with an DMR

Honestly as of right now the only classes worth while is Medic (should be 70-80% of your team, 10-20% engineer, 10% sniper.
With ranger or medium/ ammo is a non issue and if you need a support use your points to summon a paratrooper immune green support box

It's almost to the point even if we nerfed medic into the ground engineer has access to rpg which is better than most the assault gadgets... so why assault again?

[distant fiber]

than*

[manic solstice]

But I doubt there will actually be a change, asking a game that is now stuck with 80% of the players picking medic and asking them to nerf the class they play is hah GL

[distant fiber]

The problem is not the playerbase though, it's oki being an smg medic himself

[manic solstice]

Again ask for any nerf to the medic, it gets turned down because they want it to being a pure combat class

Everyone just goes

1. I'll leave the game if they change medic
2. Medic isn't OP 🙂
3. No need to nerf medic

I have no issue with people going smg medic, but to act that they get every great gun outside of the m200 + the best combat traits/armors is a lil goofy

Honestly we just need to buff medic. Give it the M200 and give us access to the RPG as a light tool. That way all the classes are pointless as the assault and true balance is achieved

I feel at this point we just need to remove assault, it really serves no purpose as a class as long as medic exists.

[narrow bison]

but let me use the based class with a scorpion, srsly why no brr brr deng gun for assault

[dire spire]

Most reloads are 2-3 sec. You'd shave a second minimum, more or less.

[frail zinc]

It is very misleading to explain benefits of medic class while ignoring the benefits of any others

[manic solstice]

Tacttical reloads are generally what you do in a situation of a quick reload so it's even less

25% faster reload is the best thing, 3 -> 2.55 but the difference becomes smaller with quick mag making it 2.5-> 2.125, tactical reload is usually half the reload so 1.25 -> 1.0625
25% faster ADS is meh it just makes them pull out AR's a bit slower then most smgs
25% faster weapon swap is 1s->.75 which uh .25 generally wont save you as 0.75 is still within most guns TTK's... saves you from a bolt action maybe in cqc?

Lets say reload 50% faster tactical reload goes back 1.5-0.75 which is a 0.75 save every time you reload to the massive 4 secods more to bleed so every 5 reloads = 1 bandage, seeing how you will prob have to bandage yourself twice after a serious close engagement that becomes 10 reloads = 2 bandages aka more then a ranger vest gives

But thats kinda the point we would have to over tune those numbers to absurd amounts before we then also just forget you can survive 2-4 engagements max on assault, and up to 20 on medic.

Also being a multiplayer none of those stats really matter bringing up your entire squad in 2 seconds if you're all medic versus 1 + 5 seconds -> 2 + 5 seconds -> 4 + 5 seconds -> 8

Not to mention they're way more bulky with bleeding giving them the ability to 1 second 40 hp heal

Also SMG allows medic to move faster and get better flanks or avoid shots...

[dire spire]

The problem is he does have a point.
Armor is less impactful if you can self heal. Armor will not stop you from bleeding out.
A bandage can.
Support can have eight, Medic starts off with TWENTY.

[frail zinc]

this logic does not follow. But support gets like 6 more per supply crate.

[dire spire]

Doesn't matter either way. Point is the same
Medic has near infinite sustain, because medic can just... keep stopping bleeding and self healing.

Also Medic is mobile survivability.
One guy holding down 3 on a team can win a fight, while a support... maybe? If the others have grenades, rockets, or some other high-lethality weapon.
Support has like two ammoboxes, big whoop, half the time I get murdered before I can do anything. He can't pick those up either, so when the fighting moves... well, some people like playing minecraft, myself included, but I know it's not for everyone.

Medic is deadly in close range, capable in medium, has infinite self sustain, and can support a team on the move. Also Medic has demolition gear so walls and structures aren't that much of an issue.

BF4 rolled assault and medic together for a reason, it seems.

[frail zinc]

a support player actually running out of bandages is unheard of :p

[stone folio]

Because they where gunned down before they could

[rocky bloom]

Because they get flanked and die before they could react, yes

[frail zinc]

would take significantly longer for support to run out of bandages than it would for a medic

[dire spire]

no?

[frail zinc]

they have more bandages + it's their only way of healing

somewhere between like 22 and 28, not sure the exact number

medic has 20

[narrow bison]

support gets scratched more often because of its thicccnes

[stone folio]

Thats locked behind a box, while still having to return to refill due to having a cap of 4, Good when deployed, Hell when you have to move

[frail zinc]

thicccness also reduces the scratches actually taken, to an extent

[dire spire]

Medic has health kit lmao, infinite self heal
Medic has twenty bandages, support gets up to... I think support has four per ammobox. Tops out at 3 base +8 from ammoboxes.
You can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly sure it doesn't add up to being more than Medic.

[narrow bison]

and it'll get flanked within 1min

[frail zinc]

you have like 2.5 bandages built in

[frail zinc]

support has more per ammo box than that and 3 ammo boxes

and 4 base

[narrow bison]

not in the actual game, 1 engagement and your thiccc but no longer protected

[stone folio]

Which is also being tapped as you have to refill guns, grenades and gadgets, So we have to minus more bandages

[rocky bloom]

Heavy ammo box gives 5 bandages per box

[frail zinc]

ah, then it's just 19

[dire spire]

It's also less mobile, unless you want to try and abuse the bandage pickup system.
support is good for zone defence, but he relies on points which arent availiable in some modes for any decent resilience
bodyarmor is no substitute for cover.

its why im of the opinion support and engineer should be able to build at reduced or zero cost basic structures.

[frail zinc]

I am aware of what support is

[dire spire]

potentially:
remove medic self-bandage speed bonus, give this to assault
allow all kits to be picked up after thaty have been deployed by the user
(eg if you drop the heavy ammo kit you can pick it up again)
assault gains armor kit that works like ammo kit for chestplates, heavy armor kit does same for helmets, but assault only, armor kit given to support and assault, as well as supply drop
assault gains some unique gadgets

engineer and support have build basic structures cost removed
mild MP443/M9 buff

[frail zinc]

that seems like it would make assault the undisputed meta

literally better medic

rn it's arguable at least.

[dire spire]

...why?
medic has less convenient self sustain, assault gains a little extra sustain and one qol feature.

[frail zinc]

assault gains medic ability but is better in almost every other way as well

[distant fiber]

Assault gets faster healing and keep their buffs? Nothing wrong with that yep /s

[frail zinc]

healing would be about the same between the classes, but now assault has better gadgets, better speed, better weapon handling as well

[narrow bison]

yeah but medic now... medics all over the place?
as apposed to now where medic does assaulting better than the class that has "rush, attack, kill" in its name, the assault class

[frail zinc]

I don't percieve it as an issue currently

[distant fiber]

So to reduce the amount of medics, we should replace them with assaults... I guess that does it.

[frail zinc]

I personally think a decent amount of medics is healthy

more reviving and some healing for everyone else

[distant fiber]

Exactly, if one class is going to have more players than others you'd want that to be the medic. So not completely dumpstering medic is important.

[tender rampart]

make other classes better dont nerf medic

just give other classes more bandages and gadgets

[narrow bison]

yessir

[craggy summit]

This

Imo rather than give the assault more self-sustaining to bridge the gap between it and medic, we should give the Assault more offensive potential.

Make it the top pick if you just want to shoot things and blow stuff up.

I think its access to grappling hooks, the riot shield and such are one way of doing this.

But hear me out, given we have a smoke M320 in the game... would an Assault-only HE variant really hurt the game? Allow it to lightly damage structures and light vehicles (Not nearly as much as the RPG tho), and if spam is a concern, make it a heavy gadget (Aka ones you can't replenish like the drone or grapple hook).

[tender rampart]

riot shield is currently kinda shit so i think it should be changed

you should be able to use secondaries while the shield is up

in hipfire*

[craggy summit]

For starters, making it rank 100 is a bit dumb too

For how bad it is, I can't help but feel like it was only made a rank 100 item to prevent new players from using it.

[craggy summit]

Does the riot shield protect you from shots to the back like how it does in some CoD games? That would be a neat feature for it.

Tho I can definitely see it being frustrating if someone shoots at a shield user in the back and doesn't get the kill because of it.

[tender rampart]

no

i think that would be really annoying and op

would make sneaking up on people impossible

[craggy summit]

Fair

Imo all the riot shield is good for is for peeking through windows without getting shot. It lets you see where the enemy is without them being able to hit you.

But it's a very niche use and many would rather have a gun on their hand when doing that, plus a quick RPG or grenade ruins the strat.

@tender rampart Thoughts on Assault having an HE M320?

[tender rampart]

whats m320

grenade launcher?

[craggy summit]

The 40mm grenade launcher yeah

It's already in the game but only fires smoke grenades.

[tender rampart]

fine, as long as its worse than rpg

[craggy summit]

I'm suggesting an explosive variant for Assault.

[craggy summit]

I agree with that sentiment. I'd give it better infantry damage, but as downsides it should have lower vehicle and structure damage, as well as higher dropoff over range (Because grenades don't fly as far)

People already use the engineer RPG against infantry fairly often, so I doubt much would change.

[tender rampart]

how many grenades would it have

also HEAT shouldnt one shot infantry

that should be frags job

[craggy summit]

2-4 depending on your backpack (It's what decides your gadget amount)

And require support box to resupply

[tender rampart]

sounds good

[frail zinc]

Would be tricky to balance this though

[craggy summit]

IIRC frag used to be really good at killing infantry during playtesys but people complained and it got nerfed to the ground.

[frail zinc]

With the current implementation of the riot shield being able to wield a sidearm would be downright OP

[craggy summit]

Yeah. It would be easy to balance with the semi auto pistols but once you introduce the handcannons and the G18 it gets tricky.

[tender rampart]

Not if you could only hipfire

[frail zinc]

Don’t really see why those are exceptions

[frail zinc]

Hmm… maybe. I don’t really understand hip firing in this game

[craggy summit]

Cuz the standard semi autos have insanely shitty dps

They're getting a substantial buff next update though

[frail zinc]

Most of them are marginally better than the glock, you’d just need to time your shots perfectly

[tender rampart]

its hard to aim

reallly hard

[craggy summit]

Hip firing in Battlebit is really hard because you don't have a crosshair, and the bullets don't go to the center of your screen.

They go where your gun is pointing.

[frail zinc]

What makes it hard?
I only hip fire within like 5m so I just don’t know

[craggy summit]

Try running and gunning and jumping and vaulting while shooting without ADSing. It's insanely hard to hit anytging.

[frail zinc]

That shouldn’t make hip firing hard, I’m used to that

[craggy summit]

If you're hipfiring while walking or still, it's controllableish

But if you try doing it mid air or when vaulting you're dead asf

[frail zinc]

Apparently there’s a second hidden accuracy stat for hip firing. No idea how big a difference it is

[tender rampart]

the gun doesnt aim where you are looking, iirc every gun aims differently in hipfire cause weight

[frail zinc]

Yeah but that by itself shouldn’t be too much of a problem as long as you understand where it is aiming

[craggy summit]

Most players don't lol

[narrow bison]

well riot shield is shit, it doesn't cover you completely, it needs to be fixed in some way

[frail zinc]

Main way I use hip fire atm is jumping into people in buildings. It seems like your gun’s physical size is never a problem which I find a little odd

[frail zinc]

If you crouch it seems you’re basically unkillable, without grenades or flanking

Can’t see the feet then

[tender rampart]

you arent gonna be jumping thro windows w/ riot shield equipped, its way to slow

[frail zinc]

You can’t even jump with riot shield, I don’t think

[rocky bloom]

On the hipfire thing, it's entirely based off of where your gun barrel is pointing. You can get hipfire kills out to pretty good ranges if you're really good at it. I assume weight is how much recoil you get when hipfiring, since there tends to be more "shake" when hipfiring compared to aiming

Also, easy counter for shield is c4 or sledgehammer

The sledge completely ignores the shield

[stone folio]

It's also not in the middle of your screen, It sort of shifts closer to the side your moving your camera to

[rocky bloom]

Somebody on youtube showed it off pretty well, but it's constrained to a circle in the middle of your screen. Moving your mouse to the right angles your gun at about 10 degrees to the right of the center of your screen

[dire spire]

No?????

[dire spire]

assault can't heal others directly and doesn't have UNLIMITED SELF HEALING
all it does is speed up bandaging, making recovery time for the ASSAULT PLAYER slightly faster.

[dire spire]

no

[tender rampart]

cope

[dire spire]

Medic gives up fairly little for being able to recover from damage basically forever.
Same mobility, same firepower, better in some cases, can deal with light armor and structures with C4, same ammo storage.

[frail zinc]

Unlimited or not isn’t really a big deal as long as you have a good amount. Recovery time is currently 100% of the reason to play medic (outside of compassion for others🥰) so giving this to assault breaks that.

[frail zinc]

Assault otherwise has an extra gadget slot over it, better mobility from backpack, more C4 and better handling of weapons

[narrow bison]

who uses the light backpack on assault?

[frail zinc]

me 😊

Tbh I don’t even know the difference between light and medium other than speed. Perhaps medium is another grenade?

But given how most people here insist on movement speed being critical I’m surprised it’s not talked about more

[stone folio]

Because everyone already knows the jist of it and how it's a solution to almost any problem because you can just out run it, (Par fleeing to heal, Positioning for better shots or simply dodging shots through cover or sporadic movement)

Assaults "faster" But's It's comparable to speeding 65 in a 60 zone

[distant fiber]

While I agree with this, I think the healing available for other classes should me less limited than it currently is. One of the main reasons people have for playing medic is being able to heal themselves infinitely. Making it so that each class gets quite a bit of self healing before needing to resupply should help in this regard.

[narrow bison]

big W for everyone but medic, +2 more bandages whoooo

[frail zinc]

Was this announced somewhere?

[narrow bison]

dev stream, first 20min or so

[frail zinc]

Cool

[stoic jackal]

I think everyone should have assault's ADS speed. Replace Assault's ADS speed with something more interesting. Maybe more base speed? Control being higher on guns? More mags for all guns by default so ranger armor isn't the best?

[tender rampart]

control is a pretty useless stat

making everyone having an ads buff is stupid

cause it gives assault one less niche

and if everyone had the same buff its not even a buff

and makes the weapon stats more confusing

[acoustic mist]

Give assault an even bigger ADS buff!

[stoic jackal]

I said I think everyone should have it and assault should have it replaced with something different and more interesting.

Not that it should just be taken away

Control is pretty useless, but perhaps assault could have scopes return to center way faster?

My point was more so that it'd be nice is Assault (and for that matter support, SL, and recon) had more unique differences. I think assault having the ADS time buff makes playing as other classes feel real sluggish in comparison. I don't think aiming the guns should be the way assault is differentiated, making the guns feel worse for other classes in exchange for assault feeling good.

Try using a dmr as assault, then try using a DMR as recon or SL. It feels real bad in comparison.

The reason I would never use DMR on recon is because of the ADS time buff on assault. My brain is like "why tf would I ever use it on recon if I have multiple buffs and armor on assault". That's probably more an issue with recon not having any unique traits that I know of. Assault's unique trait is reload speed increase (which is fine, although I'd push for this to be swapped too personally) and the ADS speed increase. Both of which make the game feel better to play. I'd say extend that buff to the rest of the classes/normalize it across classes, then give Assault some more unique buffs that don't change how the guns feel. More ammo for primary and secondary guns. Perhaps explosive resistance (although that'd fit better on support)? Bleed resistance?

TLDR: I don't like that the assault's main buffs are that they make the guns feel more fun to use - at least for me.

[tender rampart]

no

give recon other niches

assaults buffs are fine

giving ads buff to everyone would still be stupid cause it would make the ads gun stats confusing

because they wouldnt be accurate

assault is supposed to be upclose aggresive which is why it gets ads speed buff

[frail zinc]

What’s the point in doing that? It’s fine how it is

Why not just remove the buff if you don’t like it rather than applying it to everyone

(That would alter the balancing of the game in an unplanned-for manner)

[stoic jackal]

I'm saying normalize it across everyone, which could mean tuning it slightly down, but giving it to everyone. I think the game just feels better overall with the buff personally, so I'd love to see it given to everyone. This would alter the balancing of the game, but I really don't think it'd change much. Not like the assault has a class of gun it's specifically designed for.

[stoic jackal]

This doesn't make sense to me. If the buff is given to everyone the stats would be adjusted accordingly? Or would simply now mean something different?

[stoic jackal]

I really don't think it'd change much. It's not like there's a gun category designed around assault

[frail zinc]

It would make aimdown times a generally less important stat

[stoic jackal]

Guys, the method of implementation isn't the important part here btw. I'm saying that I like the way the game's gunplay feels as assault in general.

That makes 0 sense. Aimdown is still important as assault. In fact, it would make assault possibly have to consider ADS time a little more. I personally feel the ads buff on assault makes it feel like some guns aren't worth using on other classes as much (dmrs on snipers, ARs on medics to a much lesser degree). Once again, this is down to multiple factors. The ADS buff isn't strong enough to make people use assault for just ARs or smgs, they'll just use medic because their medic buffs are simply better than an ADS buff. Recon has the opposite problem where dmrs aren't worth using with it because Assault is just the better way to go with them.

My argument here is that the gunplay feels better as assault, but should feel good on every class equally. Support is a fantastic example of the gunplay feeling like garbo because of the ADS speed being bad. That's more down to the guns than the ADS buff though, but then if assault can't use LMGs whose main nerf is ADS time, why does the ADS time have to be so extreme with them? Do lmgs have to have a shitty ADS time just so assault feels special? Do all guns ADS need to feel clunkier than they are as assault on every other class just to make assault have a bonus?

Tldr: gunplay feels better when ads good. Make gunplay good on all classes. Give assault other buffs that are more interesting like a speed increase, increased magazines for guns, more nades, keep the reload speed if you want

[frail zinc]

It’s not “just to make assault have a bonus”

It’s how the game was designed

The assault buffs are a relatively recent change.

[stoic jackal]

I don't like it lmao. Just giving some feedback on it

[rocky bloom]

I doesn't really look like anybody agrees with you though

[stoic jackal]

I don't need agreement.

I need to yap

Gotta shoot ideas out there to come up with interesting things. Maybe my take is an L here, but maybe it sparks a better idea (that's still worse than mine ofc)

[tender rampart]

I agree that other classes should get more niches (recon)

But asaualy has very little niche too

Why take some away

[stoic jackal]

replace not take away lol

[frail zinc]

I’d rather expand

[tender rampart]

with what???

just add more

don't remove

asaualt is already kinda meh don't make it worse

[narrow bison]

give it scorpion, funny brr brr deng gun

[surreal widget]

I do

I think make assault more fun and give them the option the have not three light ammo boxes but 1 light ammo box and two grappling hook

Or 2 mines and 2 c4

Smthing like that

[crimson pollen]

Maybe a little faster self-bandage and assault is perfect

thats really all it needs imo

Also please fix the bug with dead teammates interrupting your self-heal its infuriating

[surreal widget]

Very irritating

[crude shoal]

Give assault the ability to bandage much quicker than non-medic classes. This will start to form its identity as a class. Also the ability to vault quicker would be interesting to test out.

[tender rampart]

the base bandage speed should be increased for non medic classes imo

it feels way to slow

[stoic jackal]

Faster than the medic class 🤔 ???

oh wait, I can't read, ignore me

[high flint]

Give scorpion

[radiant solar]

Honestly think that's the only thing this class needs ATM

[narrow bison]

oki pls give assault the scorpion, even as just a test for a week or a few days
the class wouldn't be op with a gun that had such a high barrier of entry

[primal agate]

Rn it's 5 seconds I think? 4 seconds for 10HP/sec seems sensible

[primal agate]

Would still be Medic lite tho

As long as Medic retains the unique ability for infinite self heal via Medkit I don't see that changing

[narrow bison]

fix bipod bring scorpion to assault.

[stoic jackal]

Give assault some fancy shoes.

[shell beacon]

Would it be a bad idea to have assaults worth more when capturing, defending objectives?

Like 1 assault being worth 1.25/1.5 other classes. So a single medic wouldn't be able to prevent an assault from capturing the point.

Would be an interesting buff

[rocky bloom]

To counteract that, make support count as the same, so a defending support and an offensive assault counteract each other

[tender rampart]

That's actually a really good idea

[frail zinc]

I doubt it’s a buff that anyone would really care about, but it sort of makes sense and there’s no harm in it

[narrow bison]

i'd care about it actually, gives me an edge over all those smg medics

[surreal widget]

Same

[raw nebula]

Give assault fast bangading/reviving like medic, it's supposed to be the jack of all trades right?
Grapple from recon
Small ammo from support
Fast bandage from medic
Building destruction from engineer

By your powers combined I'm a generic baseline class

[feral linden]

assault should 100% get faster bandaging speed. it's hard to keep up the pressure when healing takes so much time

[narrow bison]

yes pls

maybe not revive speed but self bandage/heal is required imo

[raw nebula]

I dunno, having someone else at the front who can quick-revive is always a bonus without heavily affecting gameplay

Might pull some people away from medic who just use it for quick heald

[narrow bison]

hmm ye maybe, but well oki medic bias still exists cough cough

[high flint]

Nah, let medics take care of others
If assault has quick revive Im gonna feel guilty running past the fallen
Thats why if I wanna play with smgs I go with engi

[frail zinc]

being the only class to be good at everything only works if the other classes are really good at something

[raw nebula]

you should

[high flint]

If Im sure its safe I do
If not its just setting up a double kill for the enemy
Better go kill some

[surreal widget]

assault should have the fast self heal time but * not * the fast revive time

[tender rampart]

yes

1.25x\

compared to medics 2x

makes sense with the other buffs also being 25%

[frail zinc]

I personally would rather bring medics down a notch than bring assault up if we’re talking bandage speed
This implicitly buffs the other non-medics as well

I think the fairly slow feeling bandage speed of this game is good as it adds more weight to decision making surrounding bandaging

[outer cloud]

yeah i'd like to simply remove the self bandage speed increase from medic and give assault something with a distinct purpose like an armour crate (if armour doesn't get turned into dr like it should)

[raw nebula]

Bandaging already feels like a chore, and it's also hard to judge just how screwed you are when bleeding as the feedback is paltry. By the time you see the red ring appear it's already too late to start bandaging.

This leaves you in a position where you feel like you have to start bandaging instantly and with how often bleed happens (up yours MP7 player from 70m away) it just feels kind of awful

[tender rampart]

100% agree

some feedback on how close I am to bleeding out would be really helpful

[stoic jackal]

I've made this suggestion before in self healing

Bleeding is super annoying because you basically have no feedback on when you'll start dying, why it was triggered, etc

Other than "oh I took damage"

[distant fiber]

god forbid we get a health indicator

[dapper gull]

This is one of the really awkward milsim features that made it into the game

[narrow bison]

give assault the scorpion

[dapper gull]

yes

[tender rampart]

I'm fine with no health bar

I was thinking more of the screen gets a redder and redder tint the closer you are to bleeding out

[acoustic mist]

or the red circle that is already there, drains, so it's kind of like a circular health bar, or an indication of how much "blood" you have left

[stoic jackal]

yea, the screen getting redder would be nice

[distant fiber]

but that also reduces visibility

can get annoying under certain circumstances

[stoic jackal]

Not like the entire screen lmao, but like the edges

[distant fiber]

that's better than an entire screen type effect for sure

but I already can see stuff like "spending the entire game with red corners" type posts in its future

[stoic jackal]

make it blue 👍

[distant fiber]

then again some people do complain about not being able to tell they are being shot without flinch lmao

[junior lake]

Dear diary

It’s been nearly 4 months since launch, and the assault class is still being outclassed and out gunned by medic

A support class

[dire spire]

I think that we should just give assault fast self bandage and remove that from medic tbh

[raw nebula]

yea, agree

[surreal widget]

Why would we remove from medic lol

The point of medic is to heal

I agree assault should get fast bandage

[narrow bison]

no the mean the self heal/bandage not he bandaging of others

[surreal widget]

Ok

Still

Why?

[narrow bison]

medic still got the upper edge in combat readiness with the medkit *over assault, assault *

[surreal widget]

Mhm

[narrow bison]

but the fast bandage does help with nade spam and cuddle piles
but still assault should get a faster self bandage/heal speed

[high flint]

dont remove from medics
they cant revive if they are bleeding

[high flint]

on topic of better weapon handling: faster mag combining?

[narrow bison]

oh yes pls

although you either drop your mags or refill 'em anyways

[dire spire]

Stop getting shot then

[dire spire]

I've had a thought
Assault has access to special customizations beyond the specialized armors perhaps
rucksack:
lose 2 secondary gadget (c4, mine, etc) but gain small main ammo reserve equivalent to primary magsize x 5 or something
so you can go longer w/o ammo restock I guess

this kinda goes hand in hand with the armor box and special assault armors idea
assault has fewer mags but has sustain enough that it doesn't need constant resupply

however there's almost mandatory pauses where you take a moment to breathe reload, repair, etc

the rucksack's ammo is consolidated before mags so you refill from your reserves
at ammoboxes you refill your rucksack by magsize
eg if you have 95 rounds out of a 150 reserve, you'll refill 30 rounds a time until full

[dire spire]

countering grenade spam I feel like is a process of reducing their kill role and making it more of a softening or finishing tool
as well as maybe adding armors with special resistances? could be a good way to buff assault and support

[narrow bison]

i was talking about medic, assault just needs to not be fucked by medic on every step on the way
support on the other hand, yikes
i won't list it all here and now but there are a plethera of potentiall fixes

[dire spire]

I mean
can I repost my wishlist

[narrow bison]

i mean tldr:
-suppression
-working armor
-more guns
-fixed movement system
-more inclusion within team play apart from mobile ammo pack

[dire spire]

trooper armor medium has 50% resistance, heavy has 75%
they are visibly bulkier tactical vests and slow you down by an additional... what is the step? 2.5% or something?

aw come on

bot zapped my post

cringe

[high flint]

I think the reason nobody uses it is because its sluggish rn
perhaps buff the speed for everybody and 25% bonus to assault

[narrow bison]

i use it and it's in a good place imo but assault just refills their spent mags so 🤷

[dire spire]

basically:
assault reload speed/item switch buff increased, gain medic SELF bandage rate
gain access to special armors for assault that carry less ammo as you go up but have a slightly decreased speed penalty
assault gets special shields and armor repair kit

assault special armors are alongside normal armor.
for instance Assault EXO is 92.5% movement speed instead of 90% but only carries 2 extra primary mags and no extra throwables. Standard EXO armor health.

[high flint]

well I use it too hence the suggestion
there are times where Ive spent the ammo box and no time to wait for supply crate

[dire spire]

are you not picking up your mags or...?

[high flint]

I do, to the point it gets me killed at times 😂
gotta learn to let go

[dire spire]

lolrip

[high flint]

---

So far I recall 4 non fantasy changes to assault:

• increased self bandaging speed
• increased mag combining speed
• increased capturing weight (1.25 or 1.5 of other classes)
• SCORPION EVO

[dire spire]

fair enough

[dire spire]

I'd be hesitant about capturing rate
I really really want assault to pick up a buff to reload and item switch, plus armor box at absolute minimum

[high flint]

its something to tinker with, can be implemented and reverted if too op

[narrow bison]

those are THE changes assault has to get

[high flint]

CAnt wait to revisit lonovo with evo and grappling hook

[narrow bison]

can't wait to go full ram bock on salhan

[primal agate]

Capture speed is kinda meh because it's not relevant to all game modes. Ideally class abilities should be universally relevant.

But yes, Assault needs fast self-bandage and it should get that over Medic imo. Mag combining speed is a pretty cool idea as well.

[stoic jackal]

I think once assault gets more like grenade launchers, breaching charges, the works it'll feel a lot more unique

Tbh medic shouldn't even have the smoke launcher

[pulsar wing]

In theory they could have varying boosts corresponding to the objective type. For example in CTF, Assault can carry the flag slightly faster and return friendly flags slightly faster.
I'm not sure how to translate that to deathmatch though.

But I don't want to throw out the idea of Assault having slight advantages to objective play, just because it can't be identical across game types. It's too good of an idea.

[stoic jackal]

Actually

I think that boost would fit recon really well

It'd be neat to give recon more tools to play like an "infiltrater" sort of role if they wanna.

[pulsar wing]

I could see Recon also getting similar boosts, but at the moment Assault really needs that because it's both fitting and would improve balance.

I could, for example, see Recon getting reduced detectability by radar or other means, which would indirectly make it easier to sneak into and flank objectives.
And Assault, while lacking the extra stealth, would add slightly more leverage to the objective.

[stoic jackal]

Idk, assault feels great to me atm ability wise

[celest solar]

Idea wise
1.Additional Passive to assault
+50% to +100% XP gain from kills & assists

[stoic jackal]

naaaah I don't think that'd be the right way to go for passives. Maybe they could get XP for people using their ropes and such? Also getting shot at with the riot shield.

[celest solar]

(looks at engineers getting 4x xp for destroying vehicles and medics getting 4x XP for bandaging)

Assault getting a 1.5x to 2x for killing & assits doesn't seem too much

riot shield wise I do agree they should get some for eatting hits, but I suppose oki may say that would be rewarding people for missing

[stoic jackal]

Do they?

I didn't know that if so

[celest solar]

Sec I'll grab the patch notes from when engineers got it

[stoic jackal]

I'll just assume you're telling the truth no worries lol

If true, I guess it's fine then sure. Killing is just so common though. It'd be better if they had their own thing to get bonus xp for

Hell, maybe they could get 2x xp for both actions

And for ammo resupplies. Like a jack of all trades

[celest solar]

I know it was changed when the vehicles were changed on how they give xp

aka when they got their xp seperated from just being a vehicle kill to X amount for this & that

[stoic jackal]

I thought it was just a multiplier for everyone

Like everyone gets 50pts but 200xp for bandaging

[celest solar]

found it

was update 2.0.0

https://steamcommunity.com/games/BattleBit/announcements/detail/3678929839482653145?snr=2_9_100003_

[stoic jackal]

Gotcha gotcha

[celest solar]

and got the multiplier wrong

was 2.5x

so transports & the like at 400xp are worth 1k for the engineer

APCs & Tanks are 2k & 4k respectively for engineers

and you get the idea

but XP bonuses are currently passives only on medics & Engineers for certain actions

I felt assault could get some for some of his actions he is built to do, same for support (XP for your buildings taking X amount of damage as a example with possibly more for other actions as well)

[earnest echo]

well

they can fix the exp

idk why it shows 200 points on kill

[celest solar]

would at least help differ assault from medic more to start with

[earnest echo]

but gives 400 exp

i mean 800 exp

they can actually gives this error on assault

like #clips-streams-videos message

says enemy kill 200 but it gave me 800 exp

lmao

and a lot of people dont know infantry kill gives 800 exp

they can fix this

then leave the bonus exp on assault and sniper i guess

[stoic jackal]

I think they just multiply the points on purpose, don't think it's a bug

[earnest echo]

idk man

lmao

[stoic jackal]

Lmao I don't trust this man on anything

The way this community treats him sometimes? I'd just lie to fuck with them 😂

[earnest echo]

anyway still misleading like

people think distance kill gives exp

and things

i think exp is unintentional but tbh i dont care easy exp even if you get few kills

[stoic jackal]

It does give points doesn't it?

[earnest echo]

no

[stoic jackal]

So wouldn't it give extra xp

[earnest echo]

check my link above

#1133102456998469682 message

[stoic jackal]

You can get extra points for distance I thought

[earnest echo]

no

LMAO

see

bruh

800 exp for kill + 400 exp on headshot on that video

check my exp i gained exactly 1200 exp

[stoic jackal]

When you shoot from like 300m you get a bonus though. I'm talking points not xp

I totally believe it doesn't add to xp (which seems silly)

[earnest echo]

it gives points but not exp

[stoic jackal]

Gotcha gotcha

[earnest echo]

like i said people think points = exp

[stoic jackal]

It should probably show you the converted xp value at the end of a match

Like add it all up, let the numbers roll to the final number. Make it super exciting and clear what gave you what xp

[earnest echo]

i should actually check dat

how much does the end of the round win gives?

25%?

ok 40% ill check

[primal agate]

Just because Oki implemented this doesn't mean it's not a pointless idea IMO. What's the point of giving out free XP for actions you would do anyway on the class designed for it? All that achieves is making you feel shittier for doing those things with any other class. And at the end of the day, XP doesn't improve gameplay in any meaningful way. Once you've unlocked the weapons you care about, you might as well give people one million XP every time they jump and that's not going to change people's behaviors in any way that matters.

Point being, XP bonuses won't make Assault any more viable as a class.

[celest solar]

not saying it will make assault viable

this is a simple thing to help differenate the class from medic

figured it would be a good starting point, plus I figured it is not going to be converstial by any means (Also keep in mind it is just a xp boost not a downgrade for everyone else)

[primal agate]

I mean the difference at the moment is that Assault is just a worse Assault than medic, so I guess bribing people with XP is one way to make people use it more

[celest solar]

otherwise I never said just do only this

[celest solar]

So might as well start with the following idea

Swap DMRs with SMGs + the scoprion

Before anyone goes this would be OP, consider the ADS benefit would feature a very small boost 9/10 at best due to the already fast speed mixed with the reload being the only real game changer (I would also say swap medic's smgs with dmrs in this update as well)

(So effectively diminishing returns would kick in effectively for the ADS)

[earnest echo]

remove smg on medic give it to assault

[primal agate]

I don't think SMGs are that crazy after the last wave of nerfs. The flanking medic playstyle works a lot better with the P90 anyway in my experience. I don't think Assault getting them would break anything, but they still won't be good as long as they keep their slow self-bandaging speed.

[earnest echo]

it wont break anything its just gonna make them more desirable since smg are either for assault or engineer

[celest solar]

it effectively helps seperate the medic & assault

[earnest echo]

yeah

[celest solar]

gives the class named assault a weapon type that better fits than DMRs

equally shifts the DMRs to medic to give them some added range potentional if they desire to support a medium range or further position

[earnest echo]

i agree

[celest solar]

also opens up the scorpion on assault since (for some odd reason) they only get half the carbines

[earnest echo]

but people would say medic are supposed to be in frontline they need smg

[primal agate]

Yes, that's the whole point of Medic, to be fast so it can get to people in time. The problem is that SMGs in this game are the superior CQC choice whereas in real life they are straight up weaker than ARs and just picked for the reduced load they provide.

Btw medic with its ranger armor and abundance of bandages would also be a better DMR user than Recon. XD

[celest solar]

to my knowledge, my medic buddy in the army was trained in usage of the M4 & M240b surprisingly (he did say it was nice to offload some steam when training to use that gun)

in fairiness engineer,assault & Support would/are all better dmr users than recon

[primal agate]

Battlefield did the support+medic thing. I wouldn't mind deleting medic and just giving support the option to carry a medkit instead of large ammo boxes.

[celest solar]

Engineer gets the no chest armor option, RPG to break open sight lines among other things, assault we should all know the why and ya get the idea on support

[celest solar]

depends on game

[earnest echo]

i think

nvm

[celest solar]

BF1 & BF5 both had assault & medic individually

personally BF1 did it better than 5

[earnest echo]

was gonna say just merge medic + engineer cuz either have an op best one hit gun or be a medic

[celest solar]

BF2042 if I recall combined engineer + support

along with medic + support

(MGs & such benefits when to engineer and the ammo & such when to medic)

[primal agate]

Tbh you could also just remove classes altogether and just let people pick between medkit, rpg or large ammo box.

Like, the "worst" thing that might enable is an infinitely sustainable sniper nest, which would need two people with ammo boxes and one with medkit... hardly feels broken.

[celest solar]

so BF2042 launch route?

[narrow bison]

medic should keep smgs imo to still protec but assault needs the scorpion atleast.

[primal agate]

Would it really change anything?

[earnest echo]

problem is i feel like they be more offensive than protecting

lmao

assaulting than being what it supposed to be

if they dont have smg that might change

probably

[narrow bison]

hmm idk

[primal agate]

There's no point in protecting because there's no need to rely on anyone in this game. Take ranger armor and you have more ammo than you'll use in a life. If you die, it's faster to give up and appear somewhere else with a full kit than being revived with half health and a used up kit/damaged armor.

If squad spawning was removed in favor of rally points, keeping your guys up would be a lot more important because you're not going to get friendlies magically appearing next to you all the time and that other class may have tools you can benefit from like grappling/RPGs/ammo boxes.

And most importantly, not letting your frontline fall would be what prevents the enemy from reaching your rally point and destroying your local spawn.

[celest solar]

I shall state this, SMGs are more aggressive than defensive in how they are designed

at least as of right now

[stoic jackal]

They kind of have to be

Their range is so low that without being aggressive it's pointless

If self healing is kept the way it is, medic should have smgs and have ARs removed imo

[celest solar]

mix in the MS Boost which encourages you to push up more

[stoic jackal]

Mhmm, you go so fast with an smg

[celest solar]

Personally I am still a case of they should have ARs but possibly lose SMGs in favor of dmrs

the self healing they got will need to be changed at some point

[primal agate]

Their range was nerfed because there damage was so overtuned for CQC. Letting them have a shitty DPS against any target with armor would have allowed them to be usable at a distance but nooo muh hipfire bullet hoses.

[stoic jackal]

I think the range is a bit too low personally

A little overnerfed. Maybe like 5-10 extra meters

but they're not in too bad a place at the moment, they do shred up close, they just feel unusable at coughing distance

[primal agate]

Exactly. They were given the shotgun treatment.

So the only way to make use of them is by running at people's faces.

They really should just have been moderate damage guns with fast ADS, reload, switch and running speeds.

[stoic jackal]

I think having shotguns occupy this sort of weird range would be better, then extend smgs out very slightly. SMG's big selling point is the movement speed increase, shotguns wouldn't have that ideally. But shotguns will never exist so I guess this conversation is pointless 😭 .

The vector's pitifully short range is wacky.

I know I said this, but I sort of wanna walk it back slightly. I think the UMP and MP5 and PP19 should have longer damage falloff ranges than the faster firing smgs. I think it's weird every gun in a category is almost the same outside of ARs

[primal agate]

Yeah, exactly, you would achieve the same thing by having ARs that shred at close ranges but have shit accuracy and wild recoil.

ARs should be the category for people who want to deal serious damage, SMGs should be the category for people who just want to get places fast and don't intend to engage in direct combat against armored targets.

[stoic jackal]

And I think it's ok for guns inside those categories to occupy different middle grounds. The AK74 and M4 are great all rounders for example.

The F2000 is a wacky fun laser beam

The Famas is the F2000 but uncontrolable and with way higher damage

[frail zinc]

That’s how it works rn

For the most part at least

Carbines can contest the ARs for ttk but have smaller mags so the raw output I would call a bit lower

[primal agate]

Sure but that's a different category. :P Under the system I have in mind, for the case of Carbines I'd just make them be largely copies of their AR equivalents with slightly better speeds but a bit worse damage dropoff and recoil.

[primal agate]

So since Medic is just gonna be Assault for the foreseeable future how about moving the extra speed for bandaging and reviving others to Assault, then those of us who actually want to play Medic have a class for that. 😌

[stoic jackal]

The extra bandage speed doesn't belong on assault, stop suggesting this pleeeease

The solution to medic is not making assault more medic

The solution to medic is giving proper tradeoffs for self healing. If bandaging is speed up it should be for everyone

[stone folio]

Bandage speed would work on assault though? It means they can get into the fight quicker and be less slowed by bleeding

[stoic jackal]

The point is they're not supposed to be good at everything I think

If you give assault the ability to also heal themselves quick they'll just turn into medic 2.0

But worse because they can also reload faster, ads faster, etc

I'd prefer bandaging is speed up overall for everyone but medic, and instead do some of the self healing changing for medic that have been suggested.

(aka medics bandage speed stays the same)

[stone folio]

Giving the Assault a quicker bandage does not make them the gods of support due to his limited amount, Quciker bandage means I can pop a heal and begin my next hunt, Or Stem a bleed and begin a push towards someone who couldn't finish the job

Stuff the agressive pushy class should be doing

[stoic jackal]

Supply drops are a thing, so idk

[stone folio]

Which require him to spent points and wait as a very green box drops from the sky telling everyone hes there

[stoic jackal]

Either or, I think it'd be healthier for the game if bandaging was speed up for everyone. Bandaging with assault's buffs just seem too much to me

Like, I enjoy that assault has to step back after a push and heal up with his team a bit

[stone folio]

I think the opposite, lower downtimes means more push and promotion of aggressive play. As the fighty class can get into fights better

[stoic jackal]

To be clear, not saying assault bandaging faster is a bad idea. I'm just not sure it's the right fix

[stone folio]

Nothing alone is the right fix as is nothing alone is the problem

[stoic jackal]

If only we had a test environment for oki to test changes like this before they go into live HRMMMMM (please keep suggesting a community test environment)

[primal agate]

The difference between Assault and Medic is 14 bandages, which you only need to use for bleeds. Even if you made them equal in bandaging speed, the latter would still be able to sustain aggressive pushes for far longer.

Giving only Assault fast bandaging speed means they can make aggressive pushes but not indefinitely so, and replacing the medkit for a bandage box would mean they would at least want to come back to their Medic buddies every so often to restock.

Btw I think the ADS/reloading buffs are silly, it just overcomplicates the gun stats system and results in dumb things like not getting SMGs or Scorpion because "would be OP".

I do like the idea of an increased feel of agility in combat, but keeping it to something like gun switching/grenade throwing speeds would still help give the class a very fluid feel without problematic interactions with a weapon's key stats.

[primal agate]

Also my original comment was just a troll. I was basically saying just make Assault the Medic class since Medic is already the Assault.

[frail zinc]

A statement like that just doesn’t make sense, it would only be more OP than other options if the gun was already OP at base . Definitely not a valid argument to keep weapons from assault

Reload speed buff on assault is the most noticeable one though

Makes guns like groza way nicer to use

[primal agate]

Sure. Or we could just have guns that feel generally nice to use across classes and move the bonuses to secondary gameplay elements because gunplay is the key moment to moment interaction and it just feels bad to have a weapon be sluggish for some people and not others.

[frail zinc]

If that sluggishness is there specifically to balance out an otherwise unfairly powerful weapon I don’t see an issue

Having weapons have different reload times adds a pretty good dimension to weapon balance so I do not support making it less important

[primal agate]

Yeah but as you said that's a weapon balance thing. Which can get tweaked via attachments. Crossing it over with classes is just adding needless complexity.

[frail zinc]

I am fine with the idea of there being a class focused on gunplay

[primal agate]

Yeah I'm fine too. Doesn't mean it's worth the additional complexity of balancing all guns they might get around a permanent passive bonus.
Maybe if it's a "tacticool sling" gear slot or something that actually involves a tradeoff.

[frail zinc]

additional complexity?

if the buffs apply to all guns there is no need to balance around them

assault needs to be better than a base class, not trading things around it

[stoic jackal]

Add an airhorn to assault

It deafens people

[celest solar]

I shall state this again, Dedicated healing items in their own slot

[primal agate]

Smart tradeoffs are what makes a good class. Which is why Medic is overtuned as shit since it doesn't trade anything meaningful off for infinite health and Support is actually close to a decent class, probably would be perfect if you could just go no armor.

[celest solar]

still unsure how faster ADS on a SMG would be truly OP

I can get the reload buff would be nice, swap speed to some degree as well

[primal agate]

I really don't think it would be lol. Reload speed tho, that'd just make you an unstoppable bullet hose.

Not that I would mind the devs giving it a shot.

[celest solar]

personally I would be up for seeing it myself

[primal agate]

Alright fuck it, operation buff everyone to medic level it is

[celest solar]

Worse case just add CoF & Bloom to SMGs,bump up their range in return

so they can't stay perfectly accurate in 100% full auto fire mag dump style

[narrow bison]

"but that's unskillful rng "

[primal agate]

You just need to reverse engineer the pseudorandom number generator to predict the spread pattern

[celest solar]

Well

[primal agate]

TONE POLICING

[celest solar]

there be a cap thing

[primal agate]

WHY CAN I USE CAPS

UNEQUAL TREATMENT

[celest solar]

but to repeat what I said
(considering everything it does make understanding your CoF,how long of a burst you can push out for X range and so on rather than

Ork Full Auto Dakka at every target due to the low recoil & such)

I can not go a full Dakka

but yea

it would add some more skill I feel

[frail zinc]

compared to each other, yeah. But the bar is well above a baseline class

[crystal fractal]

Wonder if this has been suggested before, just thought of it: let assault carry two primaries (and maybe a small speed boost if that hurts their movement speed too much)

[frail zinc]

hmm. I don't like the idea as it makes secondaries redundant and makes assault maybe a bit too powerful. Though also just carrying two primaries at once seems unrealistic to me

[narrow bison]

why? so i can rock a val and m110 to kick medics and snipers asses?

[crystal fractal]

Assault seems to be the class most in need of a serious buff

This would be a serious buff

[narrow bison]

idk chief, feels weird

[distant fiber]

Just remove assault and it's fixed

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[narrow bison]

i can just leave then ig 🤷

[feral linden]

that'd actually be fucking sick

[crystal fractal]

Right?

It gives a lot of build flexibility too, can go versatility with a long and a short range gun, or go double SMG for the specialty

Would make assault powerful, unique, and fun. I agree it’s a bit unrealistic, but that’s the only major problem I see with it.

[stoic jackal]

Actually would be balanced because you'd be as slow as support lmao

[crystal fractal]

How much heavier is the PP2000 than a pistol? That’s one I was thinking would be particularly good paired with an AR or DMR

Cuz yeah if you’re carrying like a DMR and an AR you’re gonna be sloggin

[stoic jackal]

I think it's like .05 heavier

Like 1.10 compared to 1.15

That's without attachments

With it goes down to like 1.8 I think?

[crystal fractal]

Seems like it could be a good buff then

[stoic jackal]

Smgs get a natural speed boost too

The numbers don't tell you that one

But I think you'd still be slower than with a pistol

[crystal fractal]

Yeah I would think especially if you went with two SMGs you’d still be fast just not quite as fast as pistol

[stoic jackal]

I believe our local unpaid QA speed tester @quick tangle tested it

If that's the right lucuma

[stoic jackal]

Assault can't use smgs tho

So no worries about this theoretical akimbo action

[crystal fractal]

Oh interesting, I mostly use ARs so I didn’t notice the few times I’ve tried assault

[celest solar]

yep, assault lacks SMGs & the skoprion evo

which is a bit odd they get half a gun category

[crystal fractal]

Huh they still get the Groza and Honeybadger tho?

Feels like a weird restriction

Might as well just let them use every gun (besides bolt actions) no? Not like it would make the class overpowered

Honestly don’t even really know what the identity of this class is supposed to be. Weird that a class called assault doesn’t have guns that let them assault buildings

Is it really just supposed to be the “good at mid range fights” class?

Even so it does that worse than medic, engineer, and recon

Maybe not worse than recon but not noticeably better either

Okay how about instead of getting access to all guns in both slots it just gets access to SMGs in its secondary slot

[stoic jackal]

Idk why the scorpio still

Has anyone deciphered that decision yet?

@tiny flame would you know why lol