Medic - Feedback

[cedar rune]

Yea… at some point people were talking that current gamemode is a mixture of both but now it seems that current mode is just casual and we’ll get hardcore later

Id love to see some milsim mechanics removed once we get hardcore for sure

[brave spruce]

Definitely more casual to arcade atm

[bitter pumice]

for fuck sake we need the hardcore more asap

I don't want to argue with milsim enjoyers

[cedar rune]

Gonna take a long time

Isnt hardcore supposed to be an actual milsim mode rather than just higher damage per bullet?

[vocal dagger]

Honestly this is what kind of annoys me
It's not that it's supposed to be a mix, it's just that it really isn't rn
And milsim players really don't get their half of the furn rn

[crimson hull]

whatever it's useless to argue about this, arcade people are right because people that want to enjoy a milsim that have never played a milsim before are elitist, of fucking course

[bitter pumice]

my guy you keep saying cod as an insult but they had to become more like cod to sell the game in the first place ☠️

[vocal dagger]

If it actually was a mix until the split it'd be fine but like

There's no mix at all

It's 90% casual

[cedar rune]

Rip. I dont mind ofc milsim players having their own mode, its just that the current mode is an odd mix that doesnt satisfy either of the parties properly

[pliant bronze]

i mean the milsim is probably here since this was a milsim before right? they just probably stopped devolping it further and just went for the casual people.

[cedar rune]

[brave spruce]

With 5% arcade and 5% milsim xD

[bitter pumice]

The game gives a casual vibe, the people keep advertising it as a casual game yet you have these out of place milsim mechanics that turn people off from the game

[molten bay]

when I can kill someone shooting his toe

[brave spruce]

I realized we are in the medic feedback way off topic

Time will tell

[molten bay]

What does bf medics do?

[crimson hull]

just bring us milsim mode pls these arguments are just bs

[brave spruce]

They don't even have to be arguments, just saying

[bitter pumice]

makes sense tbh, medic is the class that gets the most playtime because of this dysfunctional marriage of milsim and casual

[brave spruce]

Eh true-ish

[crimson hull]

you wouldn't need medics if it was truly a casual game

[vocal dagger]

Honestly I feel kinda lied to
I was following this game for a while and the loads of milsim gameplay from the early years sold the idea that this would be way more tactical
And it's pretty annoying when people call your vision of the game(that was specifically showed like that for years) to be bad and elitist

[bitter pumice]

bro never heard of battlefield 💀

[crimson hull]

the revive in that's just a joke imo

[molten bay]

Tf2:

[bitter pumice]

assault heal was the only fast one bruh

you had to wait 30 seconds for regen

[cedar rune]

Wtf is bro on about

Have you played any of the actually liked battlefields

[pliant bronze]

bad and elitist which one the milsim?

[cedar rune]

Reviving always played a big part

[blissful harbor]

if you're talking about battlefield, it's trying to become more like cod that's led to the entire franchise being a meme now lol

[crimson hull]

whatever idc the game's probaly not gonna change until both modes exist and then we can just have fun without cod players everywhere

[sly marlin]

I do wish there was some kind of small penalty for allowing teammates to bleed out if you just run straight past them. Maybe it could be based on the "In combat or not" system.
Everygame I see so many medics never ever help their teammates.

[bitter pumice]

I clearly was not but yeah that's why I think older battlefields were better

[vocal dagger]

Yeah, apparently enjoying the slow pacing of more milsim games makes you a elitist rn
Like people shit on milsim mechanics and then when you turn around and do the same bam 'elitism'

[bitter pumice]

don't punish, incentivize

[molten bay]

The more issue I’m finding is people stop reviving random body due to trying to preserve bandages for themselves

[bitter pumice]

it'll just feel like an obligation if you punish

[blissful harbor]

like cod is an aweful FPS, it sells because controllers, but no one plays it on MNK

battlebit has a decent niche, the way medic plays is perfect; including bandages, other classes need to be brought up to speed and the game perfected around that sort of gameplay. Take away too many milsim features and it'll end up like battlefield, add too many and it'll die even quicker because milsim fucking sucks 99% of the time.

[vocal dagger]

Nah, punishment is a integral part of making game mechanics, even when you don't realize you're being punished

[bitter pumice]

The part that makes people elitists is the tone and attitude they choose to use

[crimson hull]

medics that don't heal should be forced into assault

[molten bay]

And there is no way to carry more bandages afaik?

[bitter pumice]

mate your idea would feel like an obligation and would make people mad, you can instead nudge them into the playstyle you want with rewards

have you never heard about good game design or something?

[brave spruce]

Oddly I was getting put as assault randomly yesterday as Medic when I would respawn lol bug

[bitter pumice]

You need to make players think they want to play the way you want them to play

[crimson hull]

that's a bug

[bitter pumice]

it's a big illusion of choice

[brave spruce]

Mhmm

[cedar rune]

Why would i do that when i can heal myself and farm you more efficiently

[vocal dagger]

The thing is, medic has too many rewards as is
Most other classes get punished indirectly by not playing it

[brittle holly]

@cedar rune has earned the Tier II Member role!

[cedar rune]

[bitter pumice]

Hence the entire argument here, give other classes a way to exist without medic

[pliant bronze]

i mean not saying it is. never played milsim before. forgot which milsim game was it but i checked the review and people where like "i joined a server thats says newbie friendly then got kicked cuz i didnt know what to do" so i mean some people probably experience something

[bitter pumice]

but god forbid we become arcadey if everyone can exist by themselves

[vocal dagger]

And no, plenty of games have mechanics that punish you for for how you play and that is not bad at all
If anything it's the molds that give most games their strategy and tactis, fps or not

[bitter pumice]

give me an example of a hard punish in teamplay moments that feel good

[crimson hull]

give people more bandages

[molten bay]

I have a terrible proposal, make medic boxes only usable after dropped

[brave spruce]

I have noticed classes will heal themselves instead of waiting or wanting a medic to heal, I keep telling ppl to save their bandages...

[vocal dagger]

Running into the open against enemy forces in squad
Being punished by that makes you actually get your friends to use suppression and move as a team
And I can tell from experience that feels amazing

On a non fps game, making a dnd party with only tanks, that struggles the moment a puzzle shows up

[molten bay]

It’s hard to tell if there’s medic around at a glance

[cedar rune]

Yea make them heal automatically like in battlefield

Ez

[vocal dagger]

Constraints are everywhere, and they are essential

[brave spruce]

Oh yeah, especially in the thick of it

[vocal dagger]

They ARE thought?

[bitter pumice]

bruh

like

[cedar rune]

Ill constrain deez nuts in your nans arse

[bitter pumice]

these comparisons are quite bad

[vocal dagger]

If every class could use every weapon there would be no class system

For instance

[bitter pumice]

fucking dnd? really? to a game that has fast pace with 127v127 game modes?

[vocal dagger]

Again, we're talking about a supposed mixed mode that is 90% one and 10% the other element it's "mixing"

[blissful harbor]

I think the thing that pisses me off about most mil-simmers is they're more than happy to try and force things that players don't want. They want to force medics to play a certain way, that fits their specific definition, and force teamwork, instead of giving players a bunch of tools and letting gameplay develop organically.

It's the one theme I see most often from mil-sim suggestions.

[bitter pumice]

picking comparisons carefully is important

you cannot compare apples to oranges

you cannot compare a dog to a bird and say the dog is worthless cause it can't fly

[cedar rune]

This should be pinned so that we can quote this whenever a new milsim debate comes up

[bitter pumice]

well you can but then I'll just laugh at your face

[vocal dagger]

Teamwork is literally forced Bruh
It's like playing volleyball and just rushing the ball every time independent on where it lands is punished
Thus volleyball forces teamwork

Wherever team work is essential it is forced

[crimson hull]

people not realizing the few toned down milsim elements in the game pace it and make it unique

[cedar rune]

Teamsports developed organically untile eventually we decided what works best

Not the other way around

[bitter pumice]

teamwork doesn't need to be forced lmao, you can make it so that it improves your effectiveness quite a bit to not make it feel like shit when you don't have teammates

[vocal dagger]

that hurts to read "milsim players are such nerds, they want the things they like on games thus they are clearly elitists"
Jesus Howard Christ

[cedar rune]

You dont have to go back in history too much to see tons of variations of football that all developed organically

[brave spruce]

Pretty sure the casual and milsim players have been a two way street from the beginning of this game

[cedar rune]

Then we just decided that X works best and stuck to it

[bitter pumice]

organic teamwork is much better than forced teamwork

it feels special

when it's forced you tend to get mad at people not doing their job correctly

for example MOBAs etc.

[vocal dagger]

If teamwork improves your chances of winning
If the other team is doing it and you aren't, you are by definition being punished

[cedar rune]

Yea exactly. This has happened plenty of times already😂

[bitter pumice]

you can keep twisting the word punishment all you want

that's not punishment that's just being worse

[vocal dagger]

I'm not though, punishment is what happens when something you do goes bad for you

Either by design or not

[crimson hull]

my god fuck this conversation just have fun people and wait for your pleb and elitist modes

[bitter pumice]

that's not how "punishment" is used in game design

[cedar rune]

Irony overload

[brave spruce]

It would only be a punishment to those playing the objective, which casuals don't really focus as they want to just play

[vocal dagger]

You know what's funny? You were Literally talking about how "elitism is in the tone" or whatever, but God you folks are Literally doing it rn while calling milsim players categorically elitists

[vocal dagger]

What? It Literally is

[bitter pumice]

you just gave bad gameplay as an example of punishment

[pliant bronze]

i like how this all went down hill

[bitter pumice]

punishment as a game mechanic doesn't work like that though

I'm done with this

cba to argue shit like this

[bitter pumice]

also being frustrated that your point is not being understood is not being elitist my guy

[vocal dagger]

The thing about "milsim players want to force milsim into everyone we should just paste this whenever they show up" though...

Might I add, on a game that was literally made with the intention of having milsim elements

[bitter pumice]

did I do that? lmao

[bitter pumice]

and it clearly didn't work well enough, so they moved towards the casual element to attract people

[vocal dagger]

Nah, but this place has been a hellfest

[brave spruce]

They didn't complete that mode yet. For the time being

[crimson hull]

just stop it, yk we are elitist cunts who just want to make the game worse for everyone else and know nothing about what makes games fun, this shit is useless imma just wait for milsim mode and hope it's not to long of a wait

[vocal dagger]

Honestly I wouldn't really care to wait for milsim mode if the mixed mode was actually mixed
Unless the end goal "arcade" mode is just a flight sim on meth and this IS somehow the middle ground

Because as it stands the promised "mix gameplay" is just arcade

[bitter pumice]

with tacked on milsim element that leave both parties unsatisfied

[vocal dagger]

The tacked on milsim elements are literally like
So ignorable that you barely get any use out of them

It's so much easier to lean into the arcade side and run around on rocket boots than actually try and be tactical or coordinate stuff with people

So it's very much sided to the arcade side, saying as someone who's also had a lot of time with movement shooters

[crimson hull]

that's how i feel tbh, couldn't have said it any better and i like arcady movement shooters but this just doesn't hit the advertised casual massiv shooter with milsim stuff that's also important

[bitter pumice]

Except something as simple as healing is enough of a problem that it made this thread what it is

[vocal dagger]

Also, a good example of a punishing mechanic on an fps
The zip line arm in ultrakill would let you grab onto enemies easily and rush them to close quarters blast them, the blood spills healing you easily
The developers saw how easy this made the game and how much less thought and skill it took to use
So they just made it lower your health for 30 seconds without being able to heal if you used it while damaged
It's the most obvious case of a punishing mechanic, and a lot of the more casual players whined and moaned at it for "being too punishing" and "needlessly restrictive" or even "anti fun"
4 months later and the game is as popular as ever, and literally everyone agrees it was the best call, because you gotta think about the consequences of using it every time now, and it increased the skill ceiling immensely

[bitter pumice]

oh I love ultrakill

[vocal dagger]

Yee it's fucking great

[bitter pumice]

but I won't ever compare it to a game like fucking battlebit lmao

the games are too different to be able to compare

[vocal dagger]

I mean that change would make even more sense if ultrakill was multiplayer

Because then people would be free to use the hook as much as they wanted without any punishment

And it would become the main thing, overshadowing everything else

[bitter pumice]

the power balance in ultrakill is too different though

[crimson hull]

both have movement, ultrakill has some that makes sense while battlebits movement is bs

[bitter pumice]

if it ever had a multiplayer mode the game would need a total overhaul

[crimson hull]

c'mon you can agree that the movement in bb rn is just overbearing

[bitter pumice]

so that's why I say it's not comparable

[vocal dagger]

Tbh I don't really think so, there's some interesting insight to be getting Because it's not about ultrakill or battlebit in specific, but the fact that punishment is as important as rewards in every game

It might not seem so, but it has always been a extremely vital aspect of video games

[crimson hull]

doom eternal comes to mind

[blissful harbor]

It's not forced. There are no rules that say you have to bump, set, then spike, or work with your team. All the rules say is to get the ball over the net, and hit the ground on the other side within the arena, and a few obvious limits, like no catching it, or bouncing it to yourself, or bouncing it indefinitely between your own team.

There are no rules that force players to work with their teammates, it's entirely in the ruleset for someone to completely ignore their teammates and just bump the ball back to the other side if they want, or stand up near the net and try to jump up and block/counterspike and do nothing else.

Teamwork is encouraged, and it is the winning strategy, but if you choose not to do it, you aren't breaking rules; you'll just suck. So it's not forced.

Taking a look at some of the suggestions; for example, "medic isn't allowed to self heal", that's FORCED teamwork. there's this idea that medic has a singular purpose and that is to be a healbot and it irks milsimmers that medics don't adhere to this, so they make ridiculous suggestions like removing the ability for medics to self heal. THAT is forecd teamwork.

[crimson hull]

none of us said that and the people that said that probaly aren't milsimmers either

[vocal dagger]

Removing the ability to self heal from medics wouldn't fix medics
Making them not the most well rounded and strong classes is the issue
Having them excel at the incredibly close quarters focused fights this game has while basically negating every other class' advantages is the issue

There are loads of cover around, mix that with SMGs, fast movespeed and copious amounts of heal makes it so assault rifles, lsws, dmrs and most other guns and their classes get completely sidestepped

This isn't forced or even encouraged teamwork, this has no teamwork involved

You just run to the enemies and shoot them

[blissful harbor]

that very suggestion has been in this channel a dozen and a half times, along with other suggestions to nerf medic, very often with mil-sim intentions and "real life" being used as justification.

[vocal dagger]

It's not about real life, it's the fact that there isn't even an encouragement to play as a team or do anything remotely resembling teamplay
And then when you suggest that 'maybe medic shouldn't excell a everything' people start going on about forcing teamplay or "milsim nerds"

Even battlefield games encouraged you to actually play to each classes strengths and build off each eachother depending on the game

But as it stands getting rid of all your armor, zooming through the map with a vector and reviving everyone in sight you know will just instantly die again for xp is the most encouraged way to play

[blissful harbor]

But there is. There is a ton of incentive to play as a team, especially with your squad. Aside from winning, you get more xp/points, as well as better KDR, KPM, SPM, and other stats that players like to flaunt. Teamwork is absolutely encouraged.

Stopping and healing others might not be common, but there's a lot more to teamwork than just that. And if we're being frank, accepting that it's not something players want to do is the first step towards actually coming up with a better way to do it; self bandaging being the first step / iteration.

[vocal dagger]

My issue is way less with the healing aspect tbh
And much more about how they overshadow everyone else by being too mobile and other classes not having many advantages at the longer and medium ranges they should be useful at

Movement speed and smgs make it so hard to actually use positioning and tactics

Since there's a medic everywhere

And their guns are currently the best in the game

Not so good at mid range? No problem, you can literally just zoom along cover and get on their face unless it's a sniper

[kindred flame]

medic mobility isn't even that good anymore

all the zoomer sweats now play assault

[bitter pumice]

not even that, you can pretty consistently fuck with snipers by using lean spam, flinch and healing

[vocal dagger]

Yeah, it's really bad

[blissful harbor]

snipers are strong as all hell idk why you think it's a bad thing to be able to mess with them

[vocal dagger]

I feel like giving ars, lsws dmrs and lmgs and what not a slight increase in damage after a few dozen meters(50 or so) while reducing their point blank range and recoil slightly would make them actually stand on their own mid range wise

So a smg is still the better option up close but biggwr gus can actually be used a bit farther without needing to tap fire 6 times to kill a guy

And hopefully increase engagement distance slightly and take the spotlight away from zoooooom a bit

Ie the thing I posted on the bipod discussion

[odd cipher]

any time people act like snipers need more help i die a little bit more inside. it's the only thing in battlebit that tilts me when i die to it

[vocal dagger]

I play mostly assault and support and I genuinely don't remember the last time I died to one
Avoiding them is so easy

[odd cipher]

depends what you're doing/game mode. i play a lot of frontline 127 so it's nothing but tensa/waki/basra. try to go anywhere on a flank? sniper. sometimes multiple snipers.

[bitter pumice]

flanking snipers is the best way to get a bunch of kills in those maps

[odd cipher]

basra being a fuckin open field the moment you push past the boat doesn't help. waki being essentially a valley between 2 hills doesn't help. tensa isn't that bad but sometimes they just sit on the water towers and are annoying. (plus it's frontline so the only thing they do is slow the game down/make it infinitely harder to win for whoever has the most snipers)

[blissful harbor]

you can't flank them when they're out of zone lol

[odd cipher]

^^^^^^^^

[bitter pumice]

Walk my guy I play those modes a lot too

[blissful harbor]

really annoying in rush as well. I hate how they can sit in blue zone all game

[bitter pumice]

There are not that many snipers in blue zones

Others, you can effectively flank them consistently

[odd cipher]

sometimes you really can't though. if you get caught trying to flank them one time you'll never flank them for rest of game

[blissful harbor]

I would say 2/3 snipers I kill are in blue zone

[bitter pumice]

don't you play 32v32 mostly?

[blissful harbor]

especially if I am sniping myself

[bitter pumice]

literally not talking about those maps rn

[molten bay]

why are we talking about snipers in medix thread?

[blissful harbor]

i got bout 100 or so games spread around 64/127 as well, just cus I play mostly 32s doesn't mean I don't also play other games.. it just means I play 32s more often

[bitter pumice]

But what you keep saying about blue zone snipers in 127v127 is literally untrue lmao, it maybe true for 32v32 but definitely not what I see during my play time

[vocal dagger]

Ngl I don't like most of basra, especially the boat part
Is such a dang bottleneck that all combat there is 50m max

[odd cipher]

i enjoy the boat part (minus the part where the edges of it are just kill lanes for snipers) but the backrooms section really needs to go, and that whole side is basically just an open field up top as well.

[vocal dagger]

I don't mind the sight lines, I just wish there wasn't so much fucking cover everywhere, it feeds into smg movespeed too much for most other things to be useful

Like, space the cover out a bit

Have combat happen at 100-200 meters without an easy way for people to just rush each other

[pliant bronze]

only thing i hate in basra is how easy to defend and retake point D compared to point B

[smoky horizon]

Spawn camping around E VS spawn camping around A/B

[vocal dagger]

we can infer the quality of this conversation and the involved parties' capability to see other points of view quite easily

thank god drugs are a thing

life would be miserable otherwise

[smoky horizon]

it's when the clown symbols start stacking 🍿

[toxic plaza]

Wtf you doing here then , just trolling 🧌 😂

[cedar rune]

Yesn’t

I can make valid points and form them into baits

Happens often when the convo stops going anywhere

[vocal dagger]

Throws trolling and bait around the moment someone says something you don't agree with
"Hmmm why does the conversation get derailed"

[bitter pumice]

bruh

[cedar rune]

cope on little copelord

[somber ocean]

It'd be nice if there could be a buff to the supportive playstyle of medic that doesn't nerf it's aggressive fragging role as well. One way to do that would be if the medkit could do AOE healing when you throw it down instead of it being something that others have to individually go up to and hold a key. As it is, most players don't know you can throw a medkit (and its usually not worth it as hardly anyone will use it). Making the thrown medkit AOE would be similar to how healing was done in BF3, though obviously in this game it would be more balanced since you don't have unlimited medkits.

[crimson hull]

make the healing of others faster, including the thrown version

that'd be my proposal to make medics do more medic stuff

[vernal dew]

I pretty much main Medic in most combined arms shooters (played lots of Battlefield and Planetside), but I do it to support my team, not for increased firepower and survivability.

I don’t think Medic’s healing of other players should be faster than it is right now, but I do think the current advantage that Medic has over other classes when it comes to bandage speed and infinite, rapid healing needs to be balanced out one way or the other.

[wide marsh]

I feel a simple way to change the medic's self heal is make it similar to if they threw the box on the ground & were using that to heal (So rather than a stream, it does it like how bandages work currently)

[noble walrus]

• Remove infinite self heal box
• Medics carry 6-10 bandages (depending on gear) and use them the same way other classes do
• Uses bandages to heal and rez players. Still faster heal and rez speed
• Med box resupplies bandages

[molten bay]

I need something to incentivize me bringing the huge backpack that looks cool on medic (+2 secondary gadget iirc?)

[raw fossil]

I usually have been playing a selfish medic due to how many there are but I just noticed you don't get points from players healing from a med box you put on the ground. I feel like you should get at least SOME points for putting one down. it would encourage more team play from medics across the board.

[rapid flower]

or just remove bleeding completely and save it for hardcore, i kinda don't like that weird pace when you kill someone 1v1 and have to lie down and bandage, that just kills the pace

[bitter pumice]

lowkey agree

it feels tacked on

[remote rose]

Bleed is good, but I think the threshold should be a little higher, I'd say 90% of firefights result in a bleed (sometimes multiple), I think it should be more like 60-70%.

I remember Oki mentioning the mechanics being something like "x% of remaining health removed within X number of frames/time"

Basically if you hit a threshold of received damage over time you bleed

[wide marsh]

So assuming most fire fights is a attrition match, than both will recieve a bleed

[remote rose]

Depending who hits who, but yes, most of the time I come out of a win with a bleed I need to manage

[gentle ingot]

60-70% would be WAY too high, especially with the current bandage economy being as rough as it is. non-medics would be even less incentivized to revive their teammates if a single bullet can bring them from full health to bleeding

[wide marsh]

I still am saying this

The bandage heal is a bandaid fix

a temp thing

[bitter pumice]

from all of the suggested heal changes 40 hp/bandage was the worst one

we knew these currents problems would occur

but WCYD 🤷‍♂️

[wide marsh]

best guess is revert this change & do another

rip it off once we have a way to actually heal the wound

[bitter pumice]

maybe when hardcore-casual separation finally happens we'll get a working healing system

[remote rose]

Healing with bandage was a change for the better, made you less reliant on medics without making the class pointless. More changes are needed eg. making medics resupply bandages instead of support, making the dropped medic box useful, lowering self-heal speed, having a brief cool down period after taking damage where you can't be healed (less than the time needed to self-bandage)

Medics self-healing with bandages (faster than other classes) would be good, as said above. Have a "small medic pouch" used for healing others as normal, and a "medic supply box" droppable for people to resupply bandages

[crimson hull]

if support couldn't supply bandages we'd all be medics little suckbots again just saying

[remote rose]

But you're just being suckbots to the 2-3 support players on your team currently, what's the difference?

[crimson hull]

nahhh, medics still rule with free healing unless you just pop a bandage anytime you lose 1hp ofc you're gonna loose your bandages fast

[remote rose]

As a primary support player, people pester me for bandages constantly because you burn through the ones you have much quicker now, especially if you're a bro and res teammates

[crimson hull]

yeah that's true lol, here'd be my solution to ease bandage availability a bit
-allow medkits to replenish bandages when dropped (automaticly while healing)
-give everyone 2-3 more bandages
i wouldn't really try anything more complicated then that to keep the fundamental flow of healing and resource management of the current system

[remote rose]

Disagree with both, choose how to use your bandages then rely on your team mates to provide more, or just die.

[bitter pumice]

There's not much choice though

a single fight takes 2 bandages to heal from

limiting heal this way is just not healthy for the current game type

limit it all you want in hardcore

[remote rose]

I dunno, it takes time and resources to heal after a fight, I think that's important to slow things down a little. Making it any more lenient is going to push the playstyle Futher and further towards Cod-esq zooms bouncing around with SMGs without the punitive side-effects of constant, rapid engagements

[crimson hull]

a little bit more ease on the other classes would be nice tho, rn the cod zoomers still use medic from what i can tell

[bitter pumice]

I'm not saying speed it up though

I'm talking about being able to heal only a certain amount

That's very important for the casual mode

[cerulean creek]

Maybe backpacks could give you more bandages instead of a base bandage increase for everyone.

It could give another layer for the decision making on what backpack you equip.

[remote rose]

Classes should have a character choice that increases bandage count, I agree.

fewer primary mags, more bandages, maybe some kind of belt option

[cerulean creek]

Even without bleeding, you still pretty much required to use a bandage after every fight to have some sort of survivability, it is just annoying to run out of bandages and bleed out, even ignoring that you would still be in a very dire situation.

I understand having limited healing, but would be nice to be able to apply a torniquet that gives no HP once you run out of bandages

[wide marsh]

Many reasons to be against this way of healing

[vocal dagger]

Well, i just hopped onto a round with a vector and no armor as a medic, and i have to say

You move just way too fast

It's legitimately so easy to go around people and catch them off guard

[odd cipher]

okay i'm going to hit you with a quick counterpoint, if you nerf move speed the vector might as well not exist because you won't be able to get into its effective range often enough to justify it

[vocal dagger]

This literally just feels like flying around or using a quad bike

[warped atlas]

why do people not use transport vehicles
its truly a mystery

[vocal dagger]

I'm sorry, what?
I can get up close with medium armor and a AK15 just fine, every map of this game is littered with cover, and from my experience hitting folks with flashbangs is so easy they might as well be 3 times better than frags

[odd cipher]

i dont use transport vehicles because i play frontline

idk what gamemode you're playing but littered with cover is not what i would call some of these maps

[vocal dagger]

This feels exceedingly easy to do, and as it stands, any range advantage a weapon might have is negated by the sheer speed and maneuverability with which smgs can zoom around the map

It feels much easier to use this than 90% of the assault rifles, any of the LMGs or the DMRs

(can't forget the LSWs)

[odd cipher]

have you considered using one of the even easier smgs (pp19/mp5) that aren't gimped by their effective range?

[vocal dagger]

Oh, trust me, i'm not complaining about the vector in specific, i'm more refering to the hell mix of 'more controlable than ARs, mostly exceedingly good close range performance, and with a very good movespeed increase' smgs

There is almost no reason to use most assault rifles if you have any awareness of your surroundings

[wide marsh]

most SMGs have a very similar max damage range to the non dmr like ARs

of around 50m to clarify

[warped atlas]

smgs > ARs

[odd cipher]

smgs>ars unless it's the ak15/fal/scar

and if it's close range

[vocal dagger]

This feels like a problem to be honest, SMGs can sure have close range superiority, but to give them such maneuverability and versatility over ARs is a big problem

[odd cipher]

and if the ar player doesn't have the awareness to just, already be ads'd in the direction of the smg person sprinting towards them

so the smg's should be worse than ar's unless it's 10-25m?

nobody would use smgs

people already aren't. it's groza/ak15/fal

[warped atlas]

10M is longer than you think

im just asying its kinda stupid that smgs do full damage at 50M

[vocal dagger]

The SMGs are literally useful at 60-80 meters as it stands

some even at 100

[wide marsh]

will say you may also want to look at the min damage ranges as well

[vocal dagger]

Wishing that they not have such a ridiculous movespeed buff and controlability is not wanting them to only be effective at 10-25 meters

[wide marsh]

(max range simply determines where they start their drop & min is where/how fast it hits the minimal damage)

[vocal dagger]

SMGs can 100% still be effective at 50-70 meters, no problem, but to allow people to zoom through cities with very little way of countering that is not good at all

[wide marsh]

and on topic of SMG nerfs, I would say main changes that would be desired, would be adjusting the damage ranges & the cone of fire (So more inaccurate the longer distance you go)

[vocal dagger]

If anything, most longer guns shouldn't be as good up close as they are, but at least be more controlable and retain long-ish range damage so ARs can be useful at 100 to 200 meters without needing 2 seconds between shots to readjust

[odd cipher]

mate, it's just more smg complaints. the fal short mag is already the best gun in the game. the ak15 is a close second. of the 10 remaining ar's 8 of them are perfectly viable at all ranges and the 2 that aren't are the famas (needs buff) and the aug (i've been told it's good but it just literally doesn't work for me up close)

if the maps had more space for engagements above 100m it might work

but it doesn't

it swings wildly between you are fighting in buildings/across streets to "now cross this open field with snipers on the hill over there 200m+ away in a safezone fuck you"

[cerulean creek]

Movement speed by itself is fine, is ok to let people with no armor equiped with a SMG be fast, but things get funky when you take into account the absurd air control and other movement quirks that the game has

[vocal dagger]

That's the thing though, it's not that they don't, they clearly do, but there is no decentive to rushing whatsoever and it clamps down most combat because defending sightlines with current movement just isn't really feasable

[vocal dagger]

I don't know, the larger AR and LMG movement feels fine to me, but the moment i strip down my armor and grab a SMG it literally kinda hurts my eyes with how fast you go, it feels like slightly slower ultrakill sliding almost

[odd cipher]

it's 100% feasible it's my best strategy when i have to deal with people like robocat who can drop 150 kills a game. to just sit back and let them run into my sightlines

like what?

[vocal dagger]

It is muuch more hit or miss than rushing past people
Like you can be doing that and it ironically feels way more risky due to how easy it can be for people to flash into flank or smoke into flank you than being the other way around
Like i see some dude on a window and i just yeet a flashbang up then run into the building they're in and it works way more often than it should

[odd cipher]

the only time i've been hit by flashbangs is my teammates throwing them to be "helpful"

and i've held buildings 1v8, 3 to 4 times in a row just picking people off as they push and then winning the close battles because the fal is disgusting and already being ads'd makes it unbeatable

[vocal dagger]

Bazra i think it's the biggest exception to what i'm saying, since there cover is less plentiful, still the map is too bottlenecked to be all that enjoyable

[odd cipher]

and i'm not even a good player...

[vocal dagger]

Bazra is kinda stinky for me

Everyone in the dang bridge

[odd cipher]

basra and sandy are the best examples of everything i've complained about

center of the map, action packed, lots of cover, tons of close range fights. and then you leave center and it's open fields

[vocal dagger]

They are the exceptions though, and most maps just let SMGs and close range fights loose

[vocal dagger]

Which is why i feel most guns like the AK15 or Scar or Fal should have at least a good 40-50 meters before their damages reaches max value, they should be good at those ranges, but they shouldn't be a better close range option than SMGs

[odd cipher]

the problem is that making changes like that just kills the guns without more reworks to the other guns. that establishes a zone of power for them, great. now everyone uses the m4, the ak74, acr, g36c, groza at all ranges because weapon versatility is king

[vocal dagger]

That is not nearly as big a problem as it sounds if you properly fill in the niches without any being too overbearing

And it's better than every gun feeling like a SMG with a damage to recoil scale and nothing else

[odd cipher]

i think it's a downgrade when you go from 90% of the guns are viable/competitive down to, 30-40%

tuning outliers vs nerfing whole classes

[pastel narwhal]

I think medics should have an ADS and running speed debuff

[odd cipher]

which is the direction people want to go for some reason

[odd cipher]

the sweats are already swapping to assault with the bandage change, this does nothing

[pastel narwhal]

I've never seen someone playing assault, even after the bandage update 💀

[cerulean creek]

The SMG lighting speed meta is just because being fast is how you best exploit the movement tech that the game has.

I don't believe the game should be realistic or tatical but a game being dominated by sweats just hurt the game's accessibility.

[vocal dagger]

Because i'm not the only person that doesn't like how aggressive-tuned the game feels a lot of the time, expecially with CQB involved
People have insane mobility, strafing and lean spam, air control, parkour-...

[cerulean creek]

Never seen me

[pastel narwhal]

BBR is playing more like Bad business (Sweaty ahh roblox FPS) then battlefield

[cerulean creek]

There is 2 extremes of the game accessibility horseshoe, one extreme we have milsims and in the other one we have arena shooters, BBR needs to stay in a middle ground imo

[wide marsh]

in my experience a good deal still play medic because ofthe healing & so on

[odd cipher]

and 90% of the playerbase isn't or can't use it well enough to matter. the aggressor is always going to be rewarded courtesy of peakers advantage as is. i can't speak for anyone but myself but i'd really rather they didn't gut the movement because call of duty has shown repeatedly what players do when movement isn't strong enough to let skilled players outshine some dude sitting in a corner

[cerulean creek]

I have unholy amounts of hours spend in Bad Business, and I 100% against Battlebit becoming that

[wide marsh]

(take frag grenade)

(Toss)

[vocal dagger]

Uhh, have you played old BO2? That game had good multiplayer

Have you played bf4?

[odd cipher]

ah, i didn't know you just always know some ones sitting in a corner, which corner they're in, and have grenades leftover for it

[odd cipher]

have you looked at the new mw2?

[wide marsh]

This is coming from a guy who mainly played cod4 to ghosts

[vocal dagger]

The one with all the sliding?

[odd cipher]

or how despite all the movement in mw2019 sitting in dark corners was the meta

[odd cipher]

no. the one where they nerfed literally everything from move speed, to ads speed, to sprint to fire times

sliding is still in the new mw2 but doing it will always get you killed because of the ads speed being so ungodly slow now

[vocal dagger]

I mean, battlebit has much more potential to be a good bf4 than a good MW, and that's because the thing that doesn't fit the game is the movement, not the rest

[pastel narwhal]

Larry was making a maid skin for the AK15💀

[odd cipher]

https://imgur.com/942if5p

it's perfect

[pastel narwhal]

me rn frfr

[odd cipher]

i honestly hope we get more cool skins

well just more everything tbh

camos/skins/guns/maps/clothes for my character

the true end game

fashion

[delicate rune]

Am I detecting a FFXIV player

[smoky horizon]

Any East Asia mmorpg

[prisma forge]

personally i feel like theres certain guns that medic shouldnt be able to use in the same way assault cant use the ScorpionEVO.

[crimson hull]

yes bring scorpion to assault 🤌

[tawny pasture]

the healing/revive system still needs some changes, people were experimenting quite a bit once the bandage patch originally dropped and now its 80-90% medics yet again

I found myself liking the bandage change cuz assault now has its own gimmick of ammo + cool passives + a bit of healing, but most squads I join I see 6/8 medic

[odd cipher]

assault decent, prolly needs one more small thing, support needs help. recon needs to never be in my games ever again

[warped atlas]

i still want defibrilator paddles to zap my dead friends and living enemies with

using the same resource for reviving teammates as selfish healing does not play nice with how limited a resource bandages are for everyone BUT medic

[odd cipher]

literally just not enough bandages imo

[molten bay]

And no means to increase bandage capacity

[pliant bronze]

better hitbox on the low hp or downed when pinging please

[smoky horizon]

Yeah ping system is just scuffed

[tawny pasture]

being able to increase bandage capacity in exchange for less grenades/something would be a nice change at the very least

engineer has 0 ways to replenish bandages and recon starts with only 2

[rare crow]

I would be happy with a rework of the loadout system to something like a points-based one. Armor gives you some amount of carrying points and you can decide if you want to carry extra mags, nades or gear with that.

[rare crow]

Immediately solved by reworking medkit from magical infinite regeneration box to big bandage supply box.

Would also result in more interesting dynamics e.g. one can wait for an enemy to drop medkit and then push them so you can steal their bandages.

[tawny pasture]

I think seperating reviving and healing like basically every single battlefield game does would be a good step forward

or at least when reviving an ally it consumes their own bandages (if possible and if you're not medic) rather than yours

granted, most battlefield games restricted reviving to medics only

only the two most recent (BFV and BF2042) also gave you the option of reviving squadmates regardless of class

[wide marsh]

did say that was a bandaid fix

[rare crow]

This and other design choices seem to have been made at a point where they thought this would be a team-based game. You would be willing to spend your bandages on someone else if you relied on them and knew it was better to have one more teammate by your side. Clearly not the team deathmatch with capture points thingy we have going on right now.

[tawny pasture]

the game clearly has a bit of an identity crisis going on, from what i gather devs wanted something more akin to squad but due to the graphical style of the game they had to make it more casual and by doing so attracted a LOT of battlefield refugees (myself included)

so now its sitting at this weird fence of milsim on one end and battlefield on the other

[rare crow]

Yes. The thing is they will never be able to compete against the yearly cycle of FPS games that targets that exact same niche, most of them with larger dev teams and monetization schemes that allow them to output a large stream of content to keep players hooked.

They had a chance to carve out a niche of their own and deliver a milsim-ish, low-spec game that would have been virtually uncontested in terms of similar offerings on the market. But they went for the safe thing and made bank overnight so can't blame them.

[primal horizon]

i agree. i think the unhinged movement (changing directions on a dime while in the air. going from prone to jumping in less than 2 frames) needs to be patched because players exploiting it really takes away from the game's other core features IMO. it feels out of place. this game has fortifications and a great variety of strategic gadgets and gear that specifically lowers your movement speed as a trade-off for either more resistance or more ammo - i don't think high mobility is the right direction.

[gentle ingot]

high mobility is fun. if mobility is nerfed then players will be encouraged and incentivized to just camp windows, and that will make the game less fun for everyone

[vocal dagger]

I don't think it would really make the game boring or everyone would "just" camp windows, considering the plethora of gadgets, throwables, levolution, teamplay and vehicles we have
To say it would devolve into boring camping if the broken ass movement got balanced back down to where matrix dodging bullets via spinning mid air got fixed is at best disingenuous

[vocal dagger]

And yeah, this game has so many good systems that could work in tandem very well, but they really seem to be hampered by just how obscenely good high movespeed builds are, and how they just kinda sidestep most other stuff

The amount of people that start pogo jumping the moment someone tries to shoot at them would be comedic if it wasn't so frustrating

[vocal dagger]

My only hope is as the arcade folks move on to the next thing, the devs start to move back to what gives it so much potential. From what I can see, this situation is frustrating to everyone involved

[odd cipher]

Question, why would the arcade folks move on when this is literally the best shooter released in 7 years?

[bitter pumice]

Now that's an exaggeration

[bitter pumice]

as soon as you criticize how the movement doesn't fit in with the rest of the game people start acting like you suggested that everyone should not be able to move at all

While I get that people enjoy the movement and so do I, but I can admit that it just doesn't fit well with the rest of the systems

[vocal dagger]

Yeah, 100%
I think the slower or "medium speed stuff" are ok as they are atm, and the slowest stuff definitely doesn't need to go any lower, but the speed difference is a bit too high, and dampening stuff that goes together to increase speed would help fix it
As well, a small amount of inertia wouldn't really mess with the game flow a whole lot, if it's not overdone, but would make target acquisition on people spamming mid air direction changes a lot less frustrating

None of this would really make the game all that slower, just overall less "rush and movement input spam" based

[odd cipher]

Is it though? What shooter was better than Titanfall 2? Cause I can’t think of one that wasn’t mired in core design problems (mw2019 prolly the closest contender and cross platform with heavy aim assist and sbmm killed it)

[bitter pumice]

It's not being better. It's being just as "bad". BBR really isn't designed better than most of the shooters you complain about. It just came out at a time when all the others shat the bed.

BBR provides an experience people were missing for a while, but it does it very shallowly. That's why we have people argue endlessly here

[vocal dagger]

I would say battlebit has some issues on the fact that the game is really designed from the ground up to be slower paced, from the ammo management to the health and spawn system, to the vehicle combat and class stuff
It's all been designed with "milsim-lite" in mind, and it's fundamentally difficult to make it a very fast paced arcade shooter in spite of itself

And just removing those features would be undoing years of work and built architecture for those systems

[bitter pumice]

People thought they'd get something like the games they used to play, realized it was only like that on the surface and now we have people try to change the game to what they thought it was

[odd cipher]

Idk, I’m having more fun than I’ve had in years. The only thing I’m annoyed by is the armor implementation causing legs meta. I think the move speed is fine (the bottom end should definitely come up though)

[bitter pumice]

Not to mention the toxic positivity of this community

[vocal dagger]

I feel like this could end up compounding the rift within the game even more

[odd cipher]

Even recons being frustrating to deal with on some maps is circumvented by just waiting for my team to win or lose the meatgrinder

It’s the first shooter in years that allows for skill expression and isn’t using eomm. I’m here till it changes from what I’m enjoying.

[vocal dagger]

Don't get me wrong here, I'm on my way to complete P-2 on ultrakill(did on standard, now tryingon violent, oh god it do be hard), and i got some 300 or so hours on phantom forces(god save me), I like fast paced shooters, but this does not really work as is a lot of the time

[bitter pumice]

Who would've thought designing a milsim game, then making it more arcadey to pull players but not splitting milsim mode from arcade mode would not be a good idea?

[gentle ingot]

it's anything but broken, lol

and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that movement being less viable equates to camping being more viable. it'd be harder to rush down players that are camping, and you'd be more likely to die if spotted from a window since it'd be harder to get away

[gentle ingot]

damn, you have played a completely unrelated singleplayer game. that's insane

[vocal dagger]

First of all, having to take positioning into account even slightly is not the end of the world, especially with the afforementioned ways to break defensive positioning, secondly, you're really taking "maybe movement shouldn't be so easy to abuse, it's extremely frustrating and dissonant to what this game has set out to be for years of development" to "everyone should lie in a bush and wait"
Thirdly, have you seen how good visibility is in this game? I rarely if at all get shot by people I can't see, even in their tiny murder hole, nerds are incredibly easy to shoot back at, and you don't need broken movement to do so

[brittle holly]

@vocal dagger has earned the Tier I Member role!

[vocal dagger]

If this had been made from the ground up to be a fast paced shooter, sure, but the ammo management, damage model, healing.. those things were made as the core of the game, they aren't the tacked on part

[odd cipher]

The ttk is so low positioning is already important. I don’t understand the argument here

[vocal dagger]

That the movement doesn't fit the game and makes for a weirdly dissonant experience that enables movement abusing to become extra hard to hit, severely undermines every other implemented game system, and just overall makes the game feel shallower?
I think we made that part kinda clear

[bitter pumice]

did you not read past "ultrakill"?

[vocal dagger]

You might disagree, but our point is there

[odd cipher]

You think there being a skill based expression in the game that can save your life if you’re good enough makes the game shallower?

You know what game just tried that theory and is very shallow and garbage? Call of duty

When movement is punished people won’t move

Have you walked into an Ads’d FAL yet?

[vocal dagger]

I think that it doesn't fit every other mechanic this game implements, and that it overall makes a lot of the potential mechanical depth optional at best and counter productive at worst, so yeah, instead of being a good arcade shooter, it's a weird fast paced milsim-lite

[vocal dagger]

Even the squad playtests, which according to this logic would make everyone bunker together, have people doing insane pushes and many times succeeding
I don't think it's fair to compare this game to squad though, the same way cod isn't a good comparison

[vocal dagger]

I have, and it doesn't make me think movement speed needs changing any less

[odd cipher]

The steady removal of movement tools from call of duty is a very good comparison to the idea that movement is too strong in this game. Because after literal years of nerfs moving is the worst thing you can do in that game. Actual 2nd worst. #1 being playing it on pc and #3 being playing it in the first place

[vocal dagger]

There is a huge difference between a arcade game at heart such as cod, which was made with movement tools, small maps and low player counts in mind, and battlebit

[bitter pumice]

But isn't cod built as an arcade shooter from the ground up, unlike BBR?

[vocal dagger]

Exactly

[odd cipher]

Not anymore. They want the game to be “tactical” now

[bitter pumice]

This is as productive as giving CS:GO as an example

But the base of COD is an arcade shooter

[odd cipher]

Which means nerfing movement and buffing “sentinel” playstyles

[bitter pumice]

so if you take that element away it crumbles

[vocal dagger]

They did the same thing BBR is doing, but the other way around, they are mixing in dissonant mechanics that don't fit the core experience

Games can have slow(er) speed, fast TTKs, positioning in mind, without being COD, it's been done many times, because those games had these as ideas from the ground up

Even old cod games were like that, and they were fun as fuck

[odd cipher]

I think we’re just gonna disagree bro. The game is fun as is. If they go more Milsim I hope you enjoy it because I won’t be here

Old cod games didn’t nuke movement to the level they have now

[vocal dagger]

And this game is significantly faster than any of those

By a lot

[odd cipher]

Ehhh it’s like mw3 pace

[vocal dagger]

AND has the tools easily available to counter campers

And the visibility, and player numbers per battle to easily push through defenses, and vehicles, and building destruction to make their life harder, and sniper glint-

It's not cod

[odd cipher]

I didn’t say it was. You literally just aren’t understanding what I said

[vocal dagger]

Those are ALL good things, they help keep battles mobile and dynamic, and they don't need lightning fast movement for it

[odd cipher]

I can draw comparisons between 2 shooters (particularly ones with above average pace) that show that slowing down movement, removing movement tech that allows outplay potential, and a heavy dose of nerfs to things like ads speed sprint to fire and visual recoil straight up kills all reason to move around the map. When you could just sit still and get kills where the enemy can’t even fire back. If call of duty was still a good arcade shooter I’d play that, unfortunate that it hasn’t been fun to play since mw3/bo2 not least of which due to heavy sbmm ignoring ping

The ttk is arguably faster in this game. You really think movement nerfs won’t result in people just posting up?

[bitter pumice]

You need to be careful when drawing comparisons though, that's the whole point. I can compare snipers in BBR to CS:GO and say they are underpowered without taking CS:GO's economy system into account. That's a comparison, but not a good one.

Just like when people compare movement in this game to fucking ultrakill (happened btw)

[molten bay]

Pls don’t kill bbr like ubi killed R6

[vocal dagger]

You say we miss the point, but you're doing the same to us, this game isn't an arcade shooter, it was made from the ground up as a slower old battlefield to squad styled experience

It's not that this isn't true for cod, but cod doesn't have many of the things that make these games work the way they do, battlefield 2 to 4 were slower in movement, and they did fine, and I don't even need to talk about squad
It won't suffer the same fate as COD, because it's nowhere close to what cod is, by the nature of its design

[bitter pumice]

BBR will die if oki won't stop only balancing around his playstyle and the hardcore-casual split doesn't happen soon

[vocal dagger]

Yes

[molten bay]

R6 was made like that but it was the most fun when fast broken shits were a thing

[vocal dagger]

Eh, r6 is arguably better now

[molten bay]

Comparing to when

[vocal dagger]

It was never really my jam but from what I've played, fast paced rushing kinda negates a lot of the defensive vs aggressive aspects of the game

[vocal dagger]

Idk, 2018? I've been playing mostly on and off with friends

[vocal dagger]

Guilty as charged, officer

😔

[molten bay]

who was complaining about claymore spam again?

[vocal dagger]

Not me, lol, I love it when people run into very visible claymores mid rushing me and then get angry that they were too focused on holding shift and w to see them

Most times I'm not even the one that placed them

[bitter pumice]

Good riddance to infinite claymores

Rest in piss bozo you'll not be missed

[vocal dagger]

Yee, I remember back at the playtest, it was horrid, people were placing them so much in tight clusters some hallways became mine fields

I think there was more than one nerf actually, because it seemed even worse then

That or people were just happy to try out claymores more at the time

[molten bay]

Bruh destroying one they just chain detonates, it’s pointless to spam too many

[vocal dagger]

I know, but it was funny

People just went crazy with them

Glad they're gone, but it was funny

You turn a corner and it's just
50 claymores

[molten bay]

Mixed feelings, it was the only way few people having a chance to hold off against enemy blob or rats that just keeps coming back

Now i just 110 speed run and flank without thinking

Oh and claymore doesn’t even guarantee damage

I once triggered one and took no damage for some reason

[bitter pumice]

I remember a brainlet cited the invasion of Ukraine as a reason why unlimited claymores should return

Just a normal day in BBR feedback threads

[bitter pumice]

because the explosions are wonky af

every time I play I die to frags that hit me through walls and shit

[odd cipher]

Spherical explosions woooo

[bitter pumice]

but oki is too busy being a shift w medic to care about that

[molten bay]

Ngl I don’t think I’ve died to claymore after the nerf, they’re either too obvious or they trigger and I don’t die…

[odd cipher]

Wait till the morons figure out you can face them into terrain and the lasers become hidden by that terrain while still being triggered if you enter the zone

[molten bay]

It’s not even zone based like cod, it triggers by tripwire

[vocal dagger]

I think that's kinda the problem, it kinda just fucks up the flow of gameplay and the balancing of other classes when you can go that fast
I've been doing "research" so to speak and the range at which you can clap people by just playing like a maniac Is.. something for sure
I don't think flanking should go away but the moment you load up a LMG or DMR with some armor it becomes visible how dissonantly the whole thing plays

[molten bay]

non blobbing salhan 4 kd mad run ez clap

[vocal dagger]

Also yea, some shrapnel simulation that barricades stop would go a long way into helping fix this

[molten bay]

Mad run also adds the fun of hearing enemy complaints when you’re that close and personal

Ya know, can’t hear the rant if you kill him afar

[vocal dagger]

Ironically though, I think CSGO has the most CPU effective shrapnel simulation
It traces a line to each player and sees which percentage of them is visible, and scales the damage accordingly

[vocal dagger]

Eh, it might be fun for the person doing it but it really saps away from the game in general
Suddenly your barricade building, you team coordination, your mid range tap firing ability is pretty much just thrown out the window

This game has a big portion of it that is hurt by fast movespeed cqb flanking

[molten bay]

Barbewire: exist (get c4ed or be too poor to build them)

they don’t even make a sound to notify someone coming

[vocal dagger]

Oh, i think that's a good way to showcase the issue
There ARE ways to rush people
And many tools to do so
It's just that these tools mixed with how fast and snappy movement is are overwhelmingly one sided 90% of the time

[blissful harbor]

The mines are much deadlier, they are pretty easy to clip into terrain(stairs especially) and have a ridiculous blast radius. I've shot them from what felt like sniper rifle distance and died to them lmao

I love when the enemy places them all over their defenses, though. I just shoot the mines instead of the players, much more effecient use of bullet. I've gotten some pretty sick clips of getting kills with enemy mines, shame it's a bit off topic or I'd post them here cus it's like one of the best features oki added in that was missing from earlier versions of the game

[pliant bronze]

yeah idk why friendly places mines when they are in a middle of a shootout lmao i always shoot them so it doesnt kill his own team.

[soft creek]

Medic thread when anything that isn't medic 🗿

[meager bloom]

Medics self healing magic box should have the same mechanic as the engi’s repair tool, most of the damage is patched while a portion is not until you return to base (or in the actual case have another medic heal you).

Still able to self sustain through chip damage while healing others and not being able to wave away having most of your blood on the floor as you attempt to solo cap a contested point

[cedar rune]

[rare crow]

You do realize that medics also start with 20 bandages. Unless you also plan to make bandages not heal to full, all you're going to achieve is finally wiping out the last remnants of medics that still revive others bc they'll just hoard the bandages instead.

[brittle holly]

@rare crow has earned the Tier I Member role!

[rare crow]

Medkit just needs to become a bandage ammo box and that's gonna solve the healing limitations for everyone in the game because even the selfish medics will be forced to deploy them so others can also help themselves.

[meager bloom]

Tis a spit ball, But the bandage box with the ability to still manually heal others is a better solution, Medics can still be chase down unwilling patient's/ provide top-ups and a better healing solution while the box o bandages does also force greed's to help somewhat, Though I'd also say lower their natural bandage count to stop it from being a practically endless sustainment.

Also the amount of times I've had snipers res me makes me doubt that my raw change would suddenly eliminate empathy

[rare crow]

It could just be worked into the way bandages work though. Let Medic apply them to others with right click as current medkit works. The end result is nearly identical in practical terms, but by moving healing entirely over to bandages, you end up with a more consistent user experience which I also think is important.

That, and by moving "apply bandage to others" entirely to RMB, you can solve the current issue with holding 3 doing a bunch of different things depending on who you walk past.

[fickle oasis]

Will removing C4 from the kit cause more people to go to assault class? It removes the ability for people to breach, clear, heal, repeat.

[rare crow]

Dunno if it should be removed but at least reduced to max 2 sticks. Still lets you use it to move take down a couple of walls or damage vehicles but you can no longer blow up one whole side of a building or solo a full-health APC.

[fickle oasis]

Reasonable.

[soft creek]

No

[chilly star]

Remove C4 and they will liter the places with mines so good luck chasing one ever
Remove mines and they will just have C4 and smoke spam
Remove all explosives enjoy 60-200 people spamming smoke launcher

[chilly star]

I doubt medic will ever get balanced as it was released in such a broken state that 80-90% of most servers are medic, and most people will go medic is fine :), dont nerf it! is because that's all everyone plays. Honestly the class system is borked and almost needs to be reworked from the ground up again if 80% of your server is just one class on most servers

and most the time it's the lower levels that are the non-medic or its they want to be a sniper

[rare crow]

Can't "litter" a place when the max mines you can place is 4. And the way most medics play run and gun, mines would be highly irrelevant. Possibly a liability considering an enemy can blow it up the second you place it down.

[chilly star]

Now imagine 80% of your server placed mines

so...

30 x 4 = 120 mines

100 x 4 = 400 mines

60 x 4 = 240 mines

[chilly star]

Also lets them drop a mine as they run away and heal, cover behind them or stairs

[rare crow]

Not too worried since I prefer using vehicles. :D

[chilly star]

oh if vehichles are the threat

smokes

now imagine 900 smokes per each player life

[rare crow]

AoE babey

[meager bloom]

And the smokes covers me as I prepare for the tactically sound strategy of ramming

[buoyant root]

Mines do 7 dmg to tanks lol

They just tickle them

[hard crest]

They shread APC tho

But thats more like an APC problem

One of many

[hard crest]

Perfect counter for vehicles, they can't see shit, all enemies can see it becouse of free and build in wallhack

[chilly star]

wait sorry i was only considering 1 team by the way

1800 smoke grenades per life of each player

[rare crow]

Yeah anyway, the point is that C4 is a strong option so even if medic could only take one or two sticks, a good fraction of them probably still would. And that's fine.

[cinder plover]

Medic seriously needs to not have everything amazing shoved into one class. Best self heal, double speed revive, super fast movement, huge pool of guns, access to mines smoke and C4. The only things they lack are armour and more grenades. They have so many features you could almost split the class into a dedicated medic class and a rushdown/breacher class and have both still be viable

[crimson hull]

rushdown/breacher class, i think i heard that somewhere i'm not sure tho...
oh yeah the FREAKING ASSAULT CLASS IS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT

[soft creek]

medic players when frontline territory tho

[cinder plover]

assault feels more steady pressure than what medic is able to do running at 250 mph

[crimson hull]

so either bring up every other class to that state, not good duh
or bring medic down to earth, better way

[bitter pumice]

I disagree, if the other classes are not as fun they should be brought up to around medic's level

Just giving everyone a reliable way to sustain health and a small nerf to movement should improve things drastically

[crimson hull]

both, both is needed, we can't have a class with all the things and then classes that are lacking but have some kind of gimmick
bring medic down a bit, maybe even just by movement nerfs for everyone and some more bandages for all others

[bitter pumice]

I honestly hate how uncreative and stupid bandage healing is

[crimson hull]

it's better than nothing

[bitter pumice]

It was the worst way to implement healing on other classes among the suggestions

Especially when the bandage counts didn't change

Peak game balance right there

[crimson hull]

idk what stims or stuff like that would've done to the game, i like the system how it is rn, just need more bandages to assault as an assault
and balance is a little fried but that'll work out sometime in the future, remember ea and still 1 4/5 of a year to go

[bitter pumice]

Yeah tell that to the player count

"it's EA" is only viable when you know the devs aren't just sitting on their hands

[crimson hull]

ouch, i just hope we'll keep like 9000 players and then have some people returning here and there, i really want this game to succeed

but well there isn't anything we can do
and the devs can't do much either rn

[bitter pumice]

oh they can

I'd ask to get more people in the dev team but yeah that won't happen

and since that won't happen we will keep on getting balance changes around what the devs play and get slow updates

[gentle ingot]

movement nerfs would unironically kill the game. camping is already quite strong, especially with how you have to hunt down every single camper, since they'll all respawn if you leave someone in the squad alive

by nerfing movement not only are you detracting from the pace of the game, you are directly buffing campers. the less viable movement is, the more viable camping a window or crouching in a corner with a thumb up your ass is

[bitter pumice]

I don't mean it in the m200 movement speed after the first change way. Currently you accelerate instantly which leads to a whole bunch of problems, and some classes are just so much faster than others it just feels shit to play the slower class. Just small tweaks, not big nerfs.

As for the game's pace that again comes down to the devs not making a clear decision as to what they want this game to actually be.

[crimson hull]

i mean smth like acceleration, stuff like that, not outright milsim movement, we got a pretty cool community server for that

[chilly star]

Bring everyone to medic op levels
Engineer Buff
Replaced the RPG for the Davy crocket rocket launcher with no friendly fire or self damage, wont damage enemy medics though (aka 95% of the enemy team will be immune.)
Support Buff
No one starts with ammo and gadget tools now you're needed, also ranger armor is removed from the game for all classes but medic (can't nerf em)
Recon
Kill everyone in your scope when you fire but medics
Assault/Squad leader
Instantly swaps you to medic

[odd cipher]

does medic have a move speed boost or is it just smg's? cause if so, just use a faster AR... you know the short mag FAL lets you run at smg speed with a 3 hit kill out to like 150m while dominating up close?

i see a lot of engineer's lately, despite playing exclusively domination there's plenty of people abusing rpg's as a shotgun

i see plenty of assault's/engi's near the top of lobbies, support is very rare, probably because the class feels like shit to play, that might be something for the support feedback thread instead of crying in the medic thread

[bitter pumice]

Are you not able to complain about medic without throwing a tantrum? Honestly looking at your posts is just annoying and it's not conducive to balance feedback.

[bitter pumice]

I'm not certain on this but I feel like rpgs benefit quite a bit from how wonky explosions are in this game. I've had moments where the rpg looked like it completely missed me yet I somehow died to it's explosion(?)

[buoyant root]

I feel like it's gonna be nerfed next update

So it's a direct hit

1/0.5 m

[chilly star]

Because it's a joke, the point is they're the only class anyone plays you'd have to go to absurd levels.

But no one really wants to nerf the assault from medic in medic bit remastered.

Remove smg from medic, give it to assault so the assault class is the fast one.

[chilly star]

Bandage/bleeding system is limiting to the classes, heavily favoring medics.

Engineers are for rpg spam

Recon for snipers

Ranger armor removes the need for support cause 8-9 mags with 2-4 kills per mag. Average means most people won't live long enough to waste all their ammo

I'm just willing to be harsh, because most medics don't want it being nerfed cause they need it to be better assault crutch.

[meager bloom]

I think its more along the line of Medic is a COD char in a battlefield game, Ala Close quarters speedster with infinite health sustain

[bitter pumice]

More like the game is pretending to be battlefield but it isn't and medic is just assault from battlefield while the other classes are not.

The only overwhelming advantage medic has over other classes is unlimited self healing which imo should be available in some sort of way for other classes as well since we are playing the "casual" mode

[meager bloom]

The game is defiantly battlefield considering all the mechanics, Map design and it's development. You've also forgotten it's access to SMGs and high speed making it a defacto COD loadout. I also don't see giving everyone free infinite sustainment as a good thing as it harms the "feel" of BBR that I like currently, Unless it's limited through being a location or mechanic of a point Say a healing station

[bitter pumice]

Just make it limited but set the limit to something high enough where people are not afraid that they'll run out of healing in a couple fights. When they run out they can go to their support to get a refill, though the refill might not be full etc. Being afraid to run out of healing after a couple fights just ruins the feel of most classes and makes medic the de facto class to play if you want to stay alive for a long time.

Also just straight up taking smgs out of medic's hands would be good however I doubt that will happen considering how oki likes to play

[vagrant pelican]

yeah near instant bandaging and 20 bleeding to full health instance compared to say assaults 2 isn't even noticeable tbh

[soft creek]

[rare crow]

Medic should be better at helping others than themselves. It's the whole point of such classes across every game. That means it should not be better in direct combat situations than other classes.

Just drop the unintuitive and hidden Assault bonuses, give them SMGs and move fast self-bandaging from Medic to Assault.

Now you have pretty much the Assault that people using Medic for combat right now have so they can still play the same thing, except names make more sense and they don't have infinite sustain (but still better than other classes via their ammo kits).

[soft creek]

better at helping others
move the fast bandage

[rare crow]

words mean things

[crimson hull]

*move the self bandaging

[meager bloom]

(they're referring to the faster self bandaging speed

[rare crow]

Also, balance aside, am I the only one that keeps getting thrown off by the red medic backpack? Feels a bit too close to enemy markers. Maybe they could make it orange or at least a more desaturated color so it doesn't jump out so much.

[bitter pumice]

The game has terrible communication. It's often hard to tell what class someone is playing at range.

[wide marsh]

I shall state this idea once again

Medic should not get spec tools but rather jack of all trade tools if this game wants to have team play

[rare crow]

1. What does "spec" and "jack of all trade" tools mean
2. How does that impact team play

[rare crow]

Yeah only default recon is kinda obvious with the hat and engi with the rocket poking out. Assault medic and support I can't really tell apart when looking from the front.

[wide marsh]

to answer

1. Spec is short for specialized aka things dedicated (to use two examples shotguns & snipers) such as SMGs are purely made for the CQC encounters and jack of all trades referring to ARs & possibly DMRs, things that are more between (reasoning for ARs & DMRs is it lets the medic operate with anyone but lets the other classes have a dedicated range niche of sorts, think BF1 for a better idea)

2. It influences afew factors but to sum up ; 1. It makes the medic not the best at any range (be it not the worse either) and thus helps encourage less aggression as well as having others shine more in their respected range but still desire a medic (and a medic desire them for support) if added with the idea of making the medic's self heal a burst of healing every 5 seconds for say 50 HP (that can be interrupted by damage) it would also help out a deal further

[fervent ocean]

Consider removing medic’s access to C4. Might be overkill but I think medic would still be very strong without it. I see two big benefits:

1. Medics are no longer a huge threat to vehicles. Half my deaths while driving a tank or APC are from a medic speeding up from cover and C4ing me before I can turn the cannon.
2. Medic can no longer destroy buildings. This gives medic and assault very distinct roles especially in urban gameplay. The medic gets it’s advantage from quick self healing and team healing, the assault from its ability to carve paths through buildings and assault enemy buildings.

[odd cipher]

if you remove c4 can we just limit that to the vehicle modes? i'm playing nothing but dom and i kinda need them for pushing

also, obligatory vehicle modes are trash

precisely because you guys in your btr's/tanks think you deserve to be invincible to everything that isn't an rpg, we need 5 c4 to destroy a tank, if you're not aware enough to dodge even 1 of those that's on you

every time conquest maps start getting good a btr rolls in and annihilates one side's frontline and it's back to walking simulator

[rare crow]

You realize that would not make them "not a huge threat" but rather completely inoffensive? With that change you'll probably end up dying in the exact same way to Assaults instead. C4 in general needs a nerf, it's absurdly versatile.

For all the "no shotguns" thing the devs love to repeat, anyone carrying C4 effectively has a shotgun that doesn't require line of sight and can blast through walls.

[vagrant pelican]

Yeah doing this would make assault the main pushing class, and obviously that's bad because medic should be the main assault role class

[wide marsh]

??

Personally I feel medic should be a jack of all trades but master of none

Assault should be the class for CQC and building breaches

Support is the Imperial Fist (Defense masters and line holders) of the classes

recon is well recon + marksman duty, gives the squad a longer reach to deal with issues out of the average squad member's effective range

[vagrant pelican]

removing the c4 from medic

[wide marsh]

more meant the bit about "medic should be main assault role class"

[rare crow]

No, it's bad because forcing a class to be entirely incapable of doing something every other class can do is silly.

Reducing their capacity to just two sticks would make it a significantly less appealing choice but it would not render them useless against walls and vehicles.

[wide marsh]

hmm So I suppose a question is how much team play is valued

[fervent ocean]

For context 80% of my gameplay is c4 medic, I’m not complaining about it being extremely overpowered or anything, just think it would force more specialization between medic and assault

And more teamplay, as was mentioned. With that change a medic and an assault running together through a city would be a dream team, rn might as well just be two medics

Could give medic the smoke grenade launcher in that slot. BF1 had smoke grenade launchers on medic and I thought it worked really well.

[odd cipher]

C4 on medic is fine because conquest is a bad game mode

You can X me all you want but conquest is one game mode out of like 7 and it’s by far the worst one because of how vehicle players conduct themselves. Removing my ability to destroy walls or sniper structures like water towers because you want to park your vehicle next to a building someone can use to flank you is a personal issue

Coincidentally c4 is also the only thing stopping me from switching to engi every time a vehicle player decides to be an annoying bastard

Rpgs are just a lot easier but switching classes is very tedious

[fervent ocean]

I proposed this from a perspective of class balance I barely ever use vehicles

Your argument seems to just be “I want medic to be able to do everything because I only play medic”

[odd cipher]

Did you read what I said?

[fervent ocean]

“Switching classes is very tedious”

[odd cipher]

Ah so you read one sentence

[fervent ocean]

Bro can you just try to have a good faith conversation here? Obviously I read what you said

[odd cipher]

How about the part where conquest is a bad mode and therefore I barely play it because other modes are better

Therefore the c4 vs vehicles is a shit debate because they don’t exist in any of the other modes

[fervent ocean]

Yeah that seems very flawed too. Classes need to be balanced for the modes people play. All the 127 servers are conquest.

[odd cipher]

There’s a 127 frontline server every day

Also 64 vs 64 and 32 vs 32 exist

[fervent ocean]

Okay? A ton of people play and like conquest so classes need to be balanced in conquest

[odd cipher]

A ton of people play domination and the classes are balanced in domination

Therefore it’s fine

[fervent ocean]

Assault is as good as medic in domination?

[odd cipher]

Yes? Ads speed reload speed king?

My buddy can match me on kills playing dmr engi

[fervent ocean]

Hasn’t been the general sense I’ve gotten from what classes people pick in domination

And yes my friend can also match my kills as DMR engineer

[odd cipher]

And yet engi isn’t exactly the strongest class, though it’s gotten a lot better

[fervent ocean]

And assault has gotten a lot better with the self bandaging, now even more so, but it still feels like medic is king

But again north the reasons I listed are not “medic is currently too powerful”

It would encourage team play and specialization

[odd cipher]

I could be a team player. But unfortunately my teammates are awful and spending my time reviving someone who will finish the game with 20 kills isn’t a good use of that time. When I could go get 100 on flanks that open up a push for my team

If they even notice they can push because I can’t make them aware of the game state

[fervent ocean]

I feel like that’s not a compelling argument for how to structure the game

Also it sounds like you should be playing assault…?

[odd cipher]

I don’t find relying on bad players to be a compelling argument that wins games

I do play assault when I’m solo in domination, but I also play with a friend a lot and since he likes engi and is good and medic is good I play a lot of medic too

[crimson hull]

aren't you arguing against smth completely different now

[fervent ocean]

It’s been a lot of that

[hard crest]

Medic is a medic, he is extremely good at healing, anything more makes it OP and broken, just like it is rn

[odd cipher]

What about my argument changed? My stance is still the same just because we’re not spider man meme pointing at each other going nuh uh yes huh doesn’t mean that changed

Ah, so medic needs to be a healbot to be balanced in your eyes

I’m sure that gameplay loop isn’t boring

[fervent ocean]

You don’t want medic to get nerfed in any way and I agree that it’s much more fun to bring all other classes up to medics power level than medic down

[hard crest]

Jack of all trades could be assault or rifleman(idk how you call it). But medic being good at anything else is just too much. Some games limit accest to any explosives to medics(Squad), and some give them only common tools of limited use(PS2, BF4)

[fervent ocean]

Medic would still be very good even if they couldn’t destroy walls and vehicles, tho

[odd cipher]

I think medic is fine as is and the other classes are poorly designed and need to be updated to match

Support for example which needs a rebalance to not be balanced around having a second health pool

So that it can be fun to play

And play against

I think losing the ability to destroy walls for flanking purposes is a rather major L especially when it keeps being presented alongside the “medics are too strong against vehicles” when I strongly disagree with that position because of how hard it is to approach a properly positioned and aware vehicle

[hard crest]

Acces to all meta weapons, self healing, faster bandage and revive is plentyfull enough, very competent class, but specialised in something, just like recon and engi is

[odd cipher]

It’s not like you can fucking Kobe a c4 across map like a grenade

[hard crest]

You can do more with c4 than with grenades? Even ceeling trick for example

[meager bloom]

Can however Amazon Drone delivery them

[odd cipher]

Okay that’s not what we’re discussing. Do you realize how close you have to get to a tank to actually land c4 on it?

[odd cipher]

People been doing the same with ap mines for months

[meager bloom]

Wheres my grenades then bezos?

[hard crest]

15 meters or so, and you can do that from above/below/behind cover/ you can use it as IED

C4 is the easiest way to kill any vehicle

Even HEAT requires more skill

[odd cipher]

Imagine positioning your vehicle within 15 meters of any cover

Fucking misplay of the century

[hard crest]

Lmao, tree is a fucking cover

[odd cipher]

Also heat requiring skill kekw

[hard crest]

You would need to drive vehicle into the water to be far from cover

[odd cipher]

Where’s your teammates? Why are you advancing so far past them you’re worried about what’s behind a tree?

It’s crazy how much team play advocacy there is and then it doesn’t exist for vehicle players. They should just get to go wherever they want and never be punished

[hard crest]

Teammates doesn't fucking care about you. Suggesting that they do only shows how little you know

[rare crow]

You can just use your do-it-all C4 to clear them tho.

[hard crest]

You can be inside a fucking blob of friendly inf, and still die to enemy C4

Been there done that

On both sides

[meager bloom]

No nades? No problem! C4's got your back!

[odd cipher]

Then that’s bad awareness on your part

I get picked off in the middle of a stack of teammates and it’s my fault I got shot. Why isn’t it a tank players fault they got c4’d?

Checkmate atheists

[hard crest]

Yes, right blame the player, for having limited fov and being alone in vehicle (APC) while trying to suport your team and not die to rpg spam at the same time

[rare crow]

This convo is a mess lol. Y'all keep branching out into increasingly irrelevant points,

[odd cipher]

I will. Wait we can’t rpg spam. Everyone’s a medic remember?

[hard crest]

Someone didn't played armour it seems

[meager bloom]

Tis the fate of all feedback threads

[rare crow]

APC handling is trash. It really is not hard to avoid C4 if you know what you're doing in a vehicle. And C4 is still stupid OP on its own.

[odd cipher]

I think we need the c4 mortar bug back as a feature

[fervent ocean]

The discussion is:
Should we remove medics access to C4
Pro:
-Medics shouldn’t be the biggest threat to vehicles
-Encourages team play where assaults are the ones with SMGs that blow up buildings
Cons:
-Nerfing a class and gameplay loop people like isn’t fun

[odd cipher]

No I intentionally avoid conquest lobbies because not only are they inefficient but vehicles are frustrating at best. Keep up

Medics aren’t the biggest threat to vehicles and if they are it means engineers need a buff

[rare crow]

Yeah I disagree that "remove C4" is the only way to do that. Just pull back the amount they can carry. Now they aren't the biggest threat, they can rely on Support for more sticks, etc.

[odd cipher]

Maybe retuning the rpgs to not be a shotgun and have them actually do damage to vehicles would be a good way to fix that

[hard crest]

There is counter to rpg, C4 it literally lottery

You will get C4ed or no, nothing in between

It's insta kill, rpg gives you time to escape, if you rect fast enough

No sound/visual que to be aware of C4

[odd cipher]

“Insta kill” after the c4 player stuck 5 c4 to your vehicle

That’s a lack of awareness on your part

[hard crest]

Even footsteps are hearn only when it's to late

[rare crow]

This is part of the "C4 is OP regardless of class" problem

[hard crest]

If you are using 5 c4, you doing it wrong, 3 is enough

[rare crow]

You can throw bricks faster than you can fire some DMRs

[hard crest]

3 C4 and left click is literally 3s at max

[odd cipher]

After the dmr and fire rate buffer fixes?

[rare crow]

ye

[odd cipher]

I die as a player in sub 300 ms. If you can’t be aware of your surroundings for 3 seconds that’s a you problem

[odd cipher]

I keep saying I want jitter click dmrs but they don’t listen

[rare crow]

This still has nothing to do with medic or vehicles specifically. It's also bullshit against players. As support I have like 22 C4s, in many situations it's easier to just go around blowing shit up than using a gun.

[odd cipher]

That’s because support is heavily penalized on their movement and weapons in exchange for a 2nd health bar. Which I still think is bad design

[rare crow]

Nah. Guns are in a decent spot right now. C4 is just stupid versatile.

[odd cipher]

Especially bad design since it’s only a temporary 2nd health bar

[vagrant pelican]

thoughts on shotguns?

[odd cipher]

I dislike shotguns because I’ve never played a game with a good implementation

It’s either confetti cannon or borderline sniper rifle

Devs suck

[rare crow]

C4 is also a shotgun. Playing recon and having someone come up your building, its easier to throw a stick at the stairs than try to use your sidearm.

[vagrant pelican]

so you'd probably be keen for c4 getting removed and medic getting sledge

?

[vagrant pelican]

yeah thats the point

[odd cipher]

Titanfall 2 probably had the most tolerable shotguns given how fast ttk was across the board

I’d be fine with sledge or C2 (no player damage just destroys walls)

The problem is people wanna keep complaining about c4 medic specifically and in this thread. I’d rather have c4 than no way to destroy walls period just because some vehicle players are madge

[vagrant pelican]

yeah they are complaining about c4 medics in the medic feedback thread cause it's on topic

[odd cipher]

And their solution is usually just “remove c4, give smokes”

But their complaint is less about c4 medic and more c4 in general, which I believe is the gadgets feedback thread

[rare crow]

Ye. The actual relevant problem for this thread is Medic being better Assault than Assault.

[odd cipher]

Yeah and there’s an assault thread where you can suggest buffs to assault

[vagrant pelican]

yeah so my medic feedback in the medic thread is that medics shouldn't have access to what should be an assault/engi/SL gadget

idk feel like the right place to put it

[rare crow]

Removing C4 wont change the fact that medic still bandages faster and has infinite healing compared to presumably combat oriented classes.

[odd cipher]

My feedback to your feedback, is give me another wall destruction tool and you can take the c4

[vagrant pelican]

sledge/c2

[odd cipher]

I don’t play vehicle modes, I don’t need it for vehicle destruction. And using it vs players is low skill. Another buff to me

[vagrant pelican]

yeah i'd like the self bandage buff for medic removed, keeping the bandaging other/revive speed increase of course

[tall cove]

I’d like for medic to not be a jack of all trades

[odd cipher]

I’m pretty sure medic being the jack of all trades is the intended design

I vaguely remember oki saying that somewhere

[tall cove]

I don’t think it should

[odd cipher]

But probably the better solution is to buff the other classes because they’re not really in a great spot

[tall cove]

Weren’t they already buffed?

[odd cipher]

Who is going to revive you if the meta becomes 80-90% other classes

Because I’m still not wasting bandages on you

[vagrant pelican]

you say that like medics revive

[meager bloom]

Same as it is now, The other classes

[vagrant pelican]

no one is playing the assault focused zerg class to revive lol

[odd cipher]

It’s funny how much people say the other classes revive but I never see that happen either

[vagrant pelican]

probably cause you main medic

you're so far away from the other classes of course you never see it happen

[fervent ocean]

This was my biggest point tbh

[odd cipher]

I have to respawn sometimes

Usually after I’m out of ammo but still

Running back I see plenty of unrevived players

[rare crow]

Bandage scarcity is another general issue that makes Medic a better combat class than the rest.

[odd cipher]

That I also don’t stop for

[odd cipher]

True. I’ve been saying for months everyone needed more anyway.

[rare crow]

Even if you gave people 20 bandages, they would run through them three times as fast as Medic because you only need to use them for bleeding and can then top off with medkit.

[odd cipher]

I do see a lot of medics revive actually. Usually because I’m behind them letting them revive their teammate so I can get 2 kills instead of 1

Which might be a warcrime but who’s counting?

[chilly star]

I revive a lot of people as medic, but I wont lie I've never been revived by a medic. If I do they have an AR, SMG medics just zoom by corpses. It's kinda funny the classes that really can't spare a bandage are reviving people.

Honestly removing C4 would be nice, for removing Anti vehicle power, maybe just giving them a hammer to break stuff down could be a good idea

SMG another thing that shouldn't be on medic, heck even PDW's they should prob be AR only.
Would help slow them the fuck down, and want to stick at the back of the team.
Recon/Assault->Engineer->Medic->Support (before downsides from weapons)

Assaults biggest issue is two fold, I feel its one of those classes that needs some gadget changes, the only good thing is prob grap hook/small ammo kit.
Engineer has a way better gadget (RPG-HEAT>Anything the assault gets)
Medic/Engineer have better mobility/access to weaponry

[soft creek]

Fal famas yada yada:

[rare crow]

You don't want Medic players actually wanting to play Medic to hang back though. Being fast makes it easier to go quickly pull a corpse in a bad position or straight up dance out of the way of bullets if you want to heal someone that got downed out in the open.

I would say that strongly limiting the amount of mags they can carry would be enough to force them to hang around their team.

[chilly star]

You dont want your combat classes who the only thing they provide is COMBAT to be poop

[rare crow]

Won't affect Medic-Medics but will definitely make Assault-Medics less viable

[meager bloom]

Or could add a minor movement speed debuff in exchange for a faster drag speed, removing overpowering speed in the medics problem trifecta

[chilly star]

Smoke grenades btw, if they where better implimented and less client side bs

that works too

Base speed is what im talking about recon/assault only offer combat really to the team. Recon kinda needs a rework cause it's whole spotting is only good for pre-mades, Assault doesn't really offer much either

[rare crow]

I agree that Medics and Engis are strictly better than Assault and Support in most combat situations right now. Medic because SMG+easier heals and Engi because SMG+RPG.

[chilly star]

Also you want medics to be in the back of the offensive classes, right now the issue is they're the best going first out which is dumb

LETS GO INFRONT OF MY SQUAD AS THE COMBAT LIFE SAVER
OH NO WHY CAN NO ONE SAVE ME

[meager bloom]

I don’t care where my medics are, as long as they come and get me instead of running past

[rare crow]

If you move SMG + fast self-bandage from Medic to Assault you would already heavily shift the balance in favor of Assault for most situations IMO, to the point that dropping the fast ADS/reload stuff would be warranted.

[chilly star]

them having ultra mobility is really really dumb, and having them use guns that work better in CQC, also makes sense as they want to avoid direct engagements

oh i would agree the only good part is really the faster reload if you take drum/extended mags

which honestly add too much recoil most the time to be good

but assault is a combat class, all it can offer the team is combat

medic can still bring 5 people up from death before any other class can bring up one dude

so if we ignore solo play, medic in groups are just a force multiplier, if you dont push the kill and take out the other 7 medics in that squad working together

you really killed no one a second later

where other squads if you push them they're down one person for 5 second, and one will be reviving is essentially out and can slowly push them back/force them to retreat

[rare crow]

Yeah but if you nerf ammo capacity, you can revive medics all you want but they're not gonna last more than two engagements before needing to run back to an ammo box.

[chilly star]

Just bring one support with them

7 medics 1 support

We would have to give them unique access to medium is still 4+2-3 mags

leave them to light that's still 2+2-3

honestly medics would prob just run suicide vest lol

[rare crow]

Or just change the numbers so it's 0 + 2.

[chilly star]

issue is then people would just prob spam suicide vest

[rare crow]

How is that an issue.

[chilly star]

what I do as a medic, once I use my 9 mags up just get a quad kill or die trying

well its funny your COMBAT LIFE SAVER

is a suicide bomber

[rare crow]

I mean it's a stupid fucking item

But it's not particularly effective at being anything other than a meme

So that's not relevant for balance considerations

[chilly star]

Well it's good on maps in CQC it can depend

issue is the game has to be balanced for 127 v 127 and 32 v 32

suicide C4 in close range maps, oops turned a corner whole squad gone

suicide best is borked in 32 v 32 as it's just such an easy multi kill tool since everything is a lot tighter and close

[rare crow]

Ok. How is it relevant if medic does that instead of any other class.

[chilly star]

It rewards medics even if you nerf their mag to 2-3

instead of going to the support and forcing them to work as a team

they just go lawl, time to respawn and get free kills

and go further away from the team

it's not a team play based item, but more of a greedy one

[rare crow]

If you think blowing yourself up is more relevant than picking some other class with more mags then that's a suicide C4 problem, not a medic problem

[chilly star]

I mean with the low support numbers for just having very meh to eh guns

and just having 0 mobility

[rare crow]

Support has other roles, not a relevant direct comparison. The key issue is whether a person who wants to optimize for K/D will pick Assault or Medic.

[chilly star]

Well now it's medic

[rare crow]

Bandage + SMG + mag changes and that heavily shifts the choice in favor of Assault

[chilly star]

Mmm I guess, but again good luck passing a nerf that makes medics less combat effective, most people kick and whine if you remove SMG's or C4

[rare crow]

They can keep SMGs, the comparatively lower damage per mag would make their ammo issues even more obvious

[chilly star]

PP1000(extended)/Vector drum mags would still be able to go on multi killing sprees assuming 10 shots (not hits) per kill

[rare crow]

Then don't give them extended mags

That is definitely something that should be for combat oriented classes

[chilly star]

I feel the big issue with that longer range almost want you to mag dump outside of the things like fal/ak/scar which can go for the two tap before you react

I feel 4 mags is all you really need anyways, usually your absurd kd's are gained from a lot of people not paying attention to their flanks cause 90% of the time they're kill focused over team focused

But the less mags would be a good idea if we made support more of an fun class to play?

[rare crow]

Why? Less mags and nobody playing support would just make it an even harder gap between medic and assault which is what you want.

[chilly star]

Well we're just solving the problem by the fact one class is boring to play

essentially we would need players to not want to play support

for your balance to work

if support seems attractive to play the balance is again ruined

[rare crow]

No? You just will need to hang around supports which in practice limits how far a flanking run can go.

And without bandaging speed that becomes even less viable.

[chilly star]

honestly most my flanking absurd KD's only come from 2~ mags getting me 10~ kills as a scorp evo user

wouldn't stop flanking imo

Usually you use more of your mag far away pot shotting people

[rare crow]

Yeah it's not supposed to make an entire strategy unviable. Just comparatively less effective than on a different class.

[chilly star]

cause you have less time as after your first three shots they're back into cover

[rare crow]

If you think nothing is going to change then just run with that change and see if your prediction is true.

[chilly star]

Honestly removing SMG/Mobility would be a big one

It would be nice if people where willing to test frequent changes in the classes and they had happened as the current classes really dong offer anything to the team other then medic

Everyone runs ranger armor and has 9 mags or light + suicide vest, not planning to live long, just get as many kills as quick as possible. So support doesn't offer anything
Recon can spot well, but uh that's it... and since it and for your squad and no reason for squads dont stick together... cant really use your info

[rare crow]

Support ammo + instant cover is huge and just limited by the janky squad point system

Yeah, the amount of mags with ranger is absurd

[chilly star]

Engineer has ranged AT which is good in some modes

I would say is useful if everyone wasn't a OOOH IM IN A TANK CAMPING AT SPAWN CAUSE EASY 100-200 KD

though games are generally not own by those people it's just they're camping their A/B objective, but they dont care about winning just the all mighty KD score

Engineer is really only useful for HEAT AT breaking up cover in pure infantry maps really, you can easily break most rush maps to being defender/attacker sided objectives if you get a squad of 8 engineers

[rare crow]

Yes. Recon and Engi are inherently more niche classes. Don't see what you can do about that without diluting their specialized traits.

But not relevant for the topic of shifting combat oriented players from Medic to Assault anyway.

[chilly star]

Issue how I feel is we have to think all the classes work together in away almost

[wide marsh]

cue the fact the medic still has a infinite and better self heal I suppose

may I also suggest the following idea

No auto resupplies on respawns

but yea

medic is currently powerful to a mix of

1. a infinite and versatile self heal that is faster than bandaging yourself as anyone else (so you getting to full compared to the other guy doing 1 bandage)
2. Fast movement which boosts
3. SMGs that are very good for hyper aggression
4. good AV with C4 which all this leads to
5. high Fragging potentional

So looking at these 5 points, The SMGs are a spec weapon which encourages hyper aggression and discourages slowing down , mix in the first point you now have point 5, high fragging potentional, and we go a little further this leads to making medics want to do more combat than medic (beside for themselves)

Ways to solve this is change weapon loadouts to ARs (and possibly DMRs so they can play with people doing more ranged fights) , reduce the self heal's potentional (Note the self heal, team heal is untouched) from a constant and immedate healing stream to 5 seconds to gain healing (could be a burst of 50 or a HoT of 10 HP per second for 5 seconds) and have this be interrupted by any form of damage

and at worse we could add a "supply" limit for the self heal that can be restocked at base and possibly other sources

[hard crest]

Fastsr drag speed is an intresting idea tbh

[rare crow]

This would also fuck over squads of spawncamping engis with their infinite tandem spam. Which I would very much be in favor of.

[odd cipher]

Not trying to shit on all the effort some of these posts are going into but you’re really stupid if you think changing the weapon classes medic has available would fix them. The FAL is one of the strongest weapons in the game and can hit the same move speed bonus as an smg.

And the m110 is up there right now as well.

You could maybe slow them down with that change, big maybe, but ultimately you’re not going to change anything

[rare crow]

This is why none of my suggestions go in that direction. The key issue is their self-sufficiency via fast sef-heal and extensive ammo/C4 reserves.

[wide marsh]

(part of the reason it isn't my first point and inf self heal is)

[wide marsh]

being honest it would help deal with various things, a example of such is that or the guys who just go flank happy

creating the oruoboros caps

[soft creek]

Said guy will also have 4k squad points

Do i need to say more

[rare crow]

Yepyep. Such a change would require some tweaks to prevent everyone from running dry all the time though. E.g. make the squad supply box give a full resupply of everything including airdrones, ammo boxes, etc.

[odd cipher]

Idk what game mode y’all play either but a lot of these complaints I just never see. I’m up to 245 hours and these issues (like ouroboros capping) just aren’t there

[bitter pumice]

It's quite prevalent in domination for example, people just run circles around the map capturing each other's points.

But honestly this thread has some very bad ideas that would not work for the casual mode at all

[odd cipher]

That’s odd cause all I play is dom and it’s not a problem

[bitter pumice]

You might not call it a problem but it is there. I don't call it a problem either.

[odd cipher]

I can’t think of a match I’ve played where that occurred in the last 50 hours of gameplay

[rare crow]

It is not as likely to happen in every map and it doesn't happen in every match. But it is particularly obvious in places with multiple routes across all points e.g. District.

[odd cipher]

I won’t say longer because I have adhd problems

[bitter pumice]

That's weird cause I see it happen in every domi match I play.

Not for the whole match but for a good bit of it at least

[odd cipher]

Speaking of district did they change the 64 district map?

[vocal dagger]

"Oops now all the flags just switched hands at the same time.. again! It's almost like we swapped spawns."

[odd cipher]

Could’ve sworn it had more than 2 objectives a few weeks ago

[vocal dagger]

Mood, ritalin to the rescue tho

[odd cipher]

Idk, the servers I’m in vote namak/sandy/district and only sandy or district if neither namak is available

Typically ends up with a very volatile frontline exactly where they’ve always been

[odd cipher]

I haven’t been medicated in over a decade, whoops

[vocal dagger]

Damn, f

[odd cipher]

Yeah I’ve been meaning to set up an appointment to get more but uhhhh honestly I just forget and play video games

[vocal dagger]

The trouble with ADHD
"I need medicine to combat executive disfunction... eh maybe later."

[odd cipher]

I have all kinds of free time right now. Got a great job with very easy hours so I just don’t need medication to do it, which is part of why I cbfa to get an appointment

Which is also why I end up playing so much battlebit

[vocal dagger]

Idk I feel like this recent update has done a pretty good job in giving the dmrs and some of the support weapons a better niche for themselves
I feel like medic is pretty good as stands

[odd cipher]

I think honestly medic is fine, maybe c4 vs vehicle complaints should have a fix, the rest of it should be other classes buffed

I’d give assault the fast bandage too

[vocal dagger]

Hah, I found out I had it this year and it explained the anxiety disorder i got back in high school very well

[odd cipher]

I got diagnosed by like 5 or 6 years old when the entire time we were at the doctors office I did nothing but sit-ups for like 30 minutes while talking like words were going out of style

[bitter pumice]

They should just remove c4 from medic and give them breaching charges

I'd honestly just buff the sledge for this purpose but I doubt they'll do it at this point

[odd cipher]

I’ve been in agreement with this for months now. As long as it doesn’t impact the non-vehicle modes I don’t really care how they nerf medics vs vehicles

[bitter pumice]

the whole excuse of letting medic keep c4 for destruction purposes is just copium

[vocal dagger]

I still think a bit of movement inertia wouldn't hurt the game
I bet most people wouldn't even realize it was changed, besides the few folks I've seen doing the ol' jump and do 6 spins in place, somehow surviving being shot at by 3 people for 10 seconds
I feel like add that and you'd make the game much less frustrating, if lean spam can be fixed, 5 rapid air turns to neo out of bullets can too

It's not even like it'd make anyone slower, just make people's on air trajectories a bit less erratic

[bitter pumice]

Also I want to add this, compared to battlefield since everyone can revive this gives medic an extra gadget. In battlefields they had to carry their healing pack and their revive tool but now they get the revive tool by default. This just makes them reach into other classes' territory.

[bitter pumice]

Man I swear to god this game needs to decide what it wants to be. The movement and milsim elements just don't fit with each other. Which makes balancing one thing against the other a nightmare.

[odd cipher]

I’ve been having a good time in a server that basically turned the game into call of duty

It also being higher tick rate has successfully poisoned me and I can’t stand official servers

[soft creek]

Real

[soft creek]

Its not like they move faster

[vocal dagger]

Yeah? I'm not advocating for them to be faster, just for people doing 5 180 direction reversals in the same half second to avoid fire less of a thing

It's pretty annoying to fight against, and I've seen people be pretty effective with it

[soft creek]

You're still going to miss the same

[vocal dagger]

I mean if I can know where someone is going i can lead accordingly, if they are vibrating like a metal pipe someone dropped from 50m that's a different story

Same thing from what lean spam was

[soft creek]

Theyre moving the same tho

[vocal dagger]

No? If you can snap 180 your movement you become way harder to hit

There's a reason lean spam was a thing

[soft creek]

And you can do the same on ground

And lean spam is still doable

[vocal dagger]

I'm also referring to it on the ground

I'm really not sure where you're getting at besides "this weird movement tech can also be done on the ground"

[soft creek]

[vocal dagger]

I see

[rare crow]

It's truly ridiculous, sometimes when I start getting shot at from a good enough distance, I'll just stay dancing out in the open waiting for them to run out of bullets.

Reviving people out in the open while dodging bullets is also hilarious. Usually they get downed immediately after, so I just like seeing how many times I can keep reviving them before I get hit.

[wide marsh]

conquest, dom are ones i see it in generally here

had it happen a LOT in a dom server day prior to the update

[odd cipher]

Like I said, all I play is dom and I just don’t see it happen.

[wide marsh]

color me impressed

question what region are you from, north america or?

[odd cipher]

NA

[wide marsh]

okay no clue there

[fervent ocean]

I still think if you just take away C4 it would bring medic and assault much closer together in power level. I like the movement speed on medic, it’s really fun and does help you get revives and catch up to teammates to heal them.

If you were going to need one of your 5 bullets, that’s the one I’d say

Definitely think removing access to SMGs would be a mistake

[fickle oasis]

Medic should have good CQC to be able to defend before reviving someone imo.

I tried c4 as a medic and didn't like it for my play style. I need cover for point defense.

[fervent ocean]

What do you use? I use c4 and smoke

[fickle oasis]

Anti personnel and frag.

I gravitate to camping the upper floors holding a points with the team if they're around and I build walls at access points to deter enemy entry.

[fervent ocean]

Sounds like you should play support lol

[rare crow]

Enemy's notice the AP half of the time and even if you kill them they are bound to come back. Plus they can kill friendlies if they get unlucky with nearby explosions. If you hear someone coming up the stairs and you have C4 instead, you can blow them up together with the stairs so you can stop worrying about that particular flanking route.

[fickle oasis]

I can see that as valuable for C4. I see a lot of people surrounding themselves with AP mines at waki bridge and it's a face palm moment every time.

How many C4 does medic get?

[rare crow]

Up to 5 I think. But also, as Devonushka said, for building holds, I prefer support. Even with ranger armor you run out of ammo pretty fast up there as medic. Between all the boxes, support gets 22 units of C4 I think, and probably enough ammo to last you the whole match.

[odd cipher]

clip your AP mines into walls/stairs and they won't get destroyed

[fickle oasis]

I did notice that for stairs and sometimes corner of doors. They are well hidden. Or just put up my own structure to force people to vault into them

[odd cipher]

behind windows is a safe bet yeah

[fickle oasis]

I notice lately less people are building structures for offense and defense. But maybe because it's on 64v64.

[odd cipher]

the only people building lately are fucking recons

[fickle oasis]

As a medic, I build to revive or help friendlies at exposed open fields

[odd cipher]

i pretty much never build. if someone dies in an open area they're just fucked unless i get the kill trade. it's risk vs reward, i can risk my life to revive someone who will contribute a fraction of what i will in a match or i can move on if i can't make the area safe enough to revive them

[fickle oasis]

I build a lot. Cover my sides, close off holes from C4/RPGs. Recently started using more of the supply drop because my squad fills up on squad points and never use them anyway.

[odd cipher]

i call in supply crates and then finally die immediately after refilling on ammo

somehow kill 20 people with 5 mp7 mags? easy. survive more than 1 gunfight after refilling all 5 mags? hardest thing i've ever done

[fickle oasis]

I've only been ammo resupplied once in like 7 games.

[fervent ocean]

Can confirm I build on recon more than any other class

Maybe support but I just started playing support

[rare crow]

Winning matches feels very meaningless atm, it's all about the epic camaraderie moments ofr me. So I love support in particular because I can instantly drop a huge HESCO and revive my fallen buddy while also providing extra cover for my team to shoot from.

[odd cipher]

it's not about winning. it's about being over 100 kills every game

[tall cove]

https://tenor.com/view/the-dark-knight-its-about-sending-a-message-joker-heath-ledger-the-joker-gif-18201880

[odd cipher]

and if i can do that, while on/near obj's or breaking the enemy teams front/backlines, i will contribute more than some guy going 20-23 in the meatgrinder

[rare crow]

Contribute to what though? At the end of the day most kills and captures are just a long string of unremarkable and forgettable moments. Saving someone who thought nobody was coming for help and then seeing the team rally behind that is way more memorable for me. Even if they all get wiped 20 seconds later lol.

[odd cipher]

to my stats obviously. you cannot escape the stats

[fickle oasis]

I'll heal/revive anyone I can in hopes that it will cause more people to heal/revive others as well. It'd be cool to be able to drop bandages for teammates. If they revive me, I'll give one back. It would be cool

[odd cipher]

i'm pretty sure you can drop bandages, the problem is they glitch through the floor or turn invisible

[fickle oasis]

Oh. I guess I haven't tried bandages.

[odd cipher]

cause yeah i'd love to just drop bandies

my buddy doesn't wait for me to heal him, he just starts spamming bandages on himself

so if i could just drop a couple of them, that'd be great

[rare crow]

Yeah just select them with 3 then press X

[odd cipher]

a big problem i have with healing/reviving people is that they regularly don't have a clue what to do with the gift you've given them. you revive them and you're trying to heal them from your safe hiding corner and they just fucking stare at you. like bro, please, turn around, watch the door you moron, before i have a coronary

i get so many double/triple kills on medic's reviving people because of that exact shit. medic stuck with dick in hand, one dipshit on the ground reloading staring at the medic, other dipshit not reloading ALSO staring at the medic

like whyyyyy

[rare crow]

Oh yeah that's definitely a silly thing a lot of people do

That's why I prefer reviving with support tho, just throw a box and let them patch themselves up

[odd cipher]

i don't mind healing/reviving people that know what's going on

i just cbfa to revive unknowns, and especially if they yelling at me over comms

like cmon man, why you giving me away like that?

too many dummies

[fickle oasis]

Plenty of times I am healing someone and they use their bandage 🤦‍♂️

[rare crow]

The UI is bugged atm and doesn't show the "being healed/revived" bar so that might explain it

[soft creek]

Me getting bandaged while at 100hp

[fervent ocean]

This has happened to me multiple times
I revive someone and start healing them
Me: “I’m healing you watch”
They turn to face me and start watching me heal them

[cinder plover]

"ok bro stay still imma heal you"
runs into sandy sunset main road and dies
"ok dude cover the door while I heal you"
proceeds to stare at me and lean spam while the person who downed them in the first place runs in and gets two free kills
"ok engineer stop bandaging people on the floor I got them"
engineer continues to bandage people and we get swarmed by 40 enemy medics with tracksuit skins
"don't worry I got your healing dude"
assault continues to use the bandage on themselves while staring at me so I don't get the +50 exp healing tip and we get shot at through the window