Vector - Feedback

[reef swan]

yeah I don't remember either

but I definetly recall seeing it be after deagle

I was testing them in the range and I was suprised that it unlocked that late

[gaunt torrent]

ah 120 for rsh

and famas 25 round mag, w/e

same shit different monkey

[reef swan]

yep

[gaunt torrent]

sg550 is pretty good but you have to give up your barrel attachment to be either a suppressor or the flash hider otherwise you get to see the sun every time you fire

just, weird design choices like that that make otherwise competitive weapons worse for no real reason

[reef swan]

Honestly I was surpised they chose to go with community servers instead of fixing many of the weird design choices

but oh well wcyd 🤷‍♂️

[gaunt torrent]

gonna host my own server with armor removed 🤓

[reef swan]

gonna host my own server where even the medic bag is a vector

[gaunt torrent]

does it heal you when you shoot other players? cause i could get behind that

[reef swan]

No it heals them

[gaunt torrent]

brilliant

[solid copper]

P90 is only good when there's a huge skill gap, it's TTK is pretty middle of the pack. It's not nearly as effective as vector is, any decent aimer will beat P90 in 1v1 with a decent number of guns. Vector is favored in all matchups(mostly due to flinch, but it's TTK does play a large role even if it's not the fastest in the game)

[gaunt torrent]

p90 is only .025 ms off the vector and has less recoil + a larger base mag

it's really not that significant

[minor matrix]

Flashider is really good on the 550 even just for the recoil buff

[gaunt torrent]

not saying it isn't, just forced limitation on barrel choice because of the absurd muzzle flash

which is weird when there's better ar's that don't suffer from that

[reef swan]

Mind you I haven't unlocked the p90 yet and probably won't play with it even when I do. That has been what I heard a lot of people say about the p90 and the glimpse I catch of it when I'm setting up streams to get drops.

[gaunt torrent]

tbh i've been using the p90 a good bit since unlocking it yesterday, i'm having same results as i have with vector, losing the same gunfights i lost before, winning more at range due to easier recoil

[solid copper]

it's a great gun, it's my favorite, but if there are too many vector users or other fast TTK guns, I swap off it and onto FAL. It's noticeably worse in 1v1s than a number of other guns. FAL, though, do not give a FUCK, I win every 1v1 with it

[gaunt torrent]

yeah FAL is pretty gross based on the 1 encounter i had with it

think it's the only time i've died where i felt like i really got "one bullet" killed

[timber lotus]

If somebody actually thinks vector is balanced he should uninstall the game rn

[main helm]

The vector is a crutch, pretty plain and simple. TTK, accuracy, and recoil across close to long ranges is insane, especially when it constantly beats out rifles that should be outperforming it in damage. Even compared to other guns I consider a bit broken in how good they are, the vector outperforms everything at a standard infantry level. If I had to suggest anything, it deserves a significant accuracy reduction to keep it in close range and maybe mid range. Low recoil and high ROF are fine, given what the weapon is supposed to be, but a 9mm projectile shouldn't be carrying out to 100m with pinpoint accuracy.

[timber lotus]

• Reduce movement speed by 0.10
• Increase reload time by 1 sec
• Reduce the damage to 20 or 21 and the weapon is fixed.

[drifting trout]

no lmao. smg's should not be affective full auto at 150m lul

[gaunt torrent]

they aren't

anything beyond like 50m you're tap/burst firing not spraying

[proper thunder]

this weapon needs nerf, it is completely immoral, killing fast from far, medium and close range. Very high rate of fire, meaning that 80% of the time you can't win at x1, if most players are using it because EVERYONE says it's very strong, it should be a reason for you to look at a nerf in it, every game only has people with her and ridiculous

[drifting trout]

youre not building the weapon right than haha

[noble nexus]

I don't get people saying the weapon is not good past 50 m, I am pretty sure that's an issue on your guys' part, that thing is good up to 80m no problem and 115m with having to actually use 5 brain cells and try to lead.

[fallen oyster]

ikr, that's why i post this #1133097168991965304 message

[sweet siren]

Can the mods please delete this thread and also the XP gain thread...at this point it's just wasting server space

[sweet birch]

they are comparing what the game says the damages instead of actual experience.
I'm not sure what the range is, but on the small oil rig map with the oil area on the left and the town on the right with the trench between them, ive smoked 3 guys in one magazine firing down the road to the door next to the bridge, in one mag >.>

[gaunt torrent]

What build are you using that has no recoil then? I’d love to see you go in the range and actually spray down a target at 100m+

[sweet birch]

when anyone says "no recoil" they are actually saying the recoil is enough to basically fully compensate for, not that there is actually no recoil

[quaint shard]

hear me out, vector has a built in recoil mitigation system, so it would make no sense for it to have increased recoil, lowering damage or increasing damage falloff would probably be the best bet

[minor matrix]

lol as if this game's weapon stats give a shit about realism

[sweet birch]

how many real vectors have you fired

[quaint shard]

im just a civilian interested in guns brother 😹

[gaunt torrent]

And I’m saying beyond 70-80m that’s not true of the vector and people claiming it should go in the range and prove it. Especially those claiming 100m+ as no recoil

[quaint shard]

imma try rn

[sweet birch]

Ive certainly lasered 2-3 guys at 100m in one magazine

I'll have to verify distance though, may have been a little less

[quaint shard]

my firthest kill with it was 86m

[sweet birch]

Basically if the gun was supposed to be realistic it would have about 4 times the cone of fire that it does XD

[sweet birch]

are you just not firing it at longer ranges? it took a while for me to realise I could just rip a mag at any range and hit them a couple times

[quaint shard]

im very self conscious about my ammo so i dont really like doing that

and teammates never drop ammo

like every bullet counts to me

[sweet birch]

ah thats why then, you start with 7 mags , let er' rip

most people dont build either, so if your squad is hitting objectives you should have airdrop points available

[quaint shard]

i always forget about htat

[sweet birch]

yeah everyone does! lol

[quaint shard]

most of the time i just scream in voip for 5 minutes and someone throws some down

and it kinda ruins my momentum

[sweet birch]

Ive been unlocking stuff for the ultimax, so its been all sandbag bunkers and folks know where to find ammo if they need it XD

[quaint shard]

what a great fucking guy

[sweet birch]

I'm a team player,
Also the ultimax is a lot of fun once you get used to it not being the greatest gun

[main helm]

i hear its strong suit is longer range kills being consistent 3 hits

[minor matrix]

definitely not, if it had consistent 3 hit kills at any range, it would be a beast

[main helm]

iirc its 3 hit at 100m?

[minor matrix]

def not

it's what, 29 base damage? making it a 5 shot kill against normal armor at 100m

at 600 rpm

[sweet birch]

the ultimax's strength is that it is controllable at range, you can actually engage with it and medium scopes, some of the time, lol
its TTK is statistically bad, but its hit rate is probably double what the 249 can realistically get, so it evens out

the real kicker is it is ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL vs helicopters, lol

at closer range its almost kriss level controllable that lets you drop shots into peoples heads where with the 249 you're just ripping ammo and hoping they get hit

Folks get real obsessed with TTK mathmatically when they are counting on hitrate being 100% which is never the case

[meager raptor]

Damn that sounds just like the anti-aimpunch guys.

Oh yeah its the same guys

I swear they are a plant from a competing game company, preventing good feedback from being heard, killing the game.

[sweet birch]

people are allowed to be passionate about things, and also stupid
its just a headache when they are both

[sweet siren]

Yes it's the same guys in every thread I checked also they're a bunch of shills

And when you say something against what they are saying they threaten to report you

[untold stream]

man i can comment on these vector related posts all day. both P90 and Fal have quite a high horizontal recoil, especially Fal when you have to sacrifice vertical recoil for horizontal to be somewhat playable (i have both BCM and flash hider equipped and Fal's horizontal recoil is still kicking as hell), yes it has high dmg per bullet and faster ttk than Ak15 and Scar but it doesn't have that consistency of Ak and Scar, and not to mention the scorpion which has 2.7 base vertical recoil and the same firerate as vector, 26 dmg per bullet/potential 4 shots to kill doesn't mean anything when you have that kind of vertical recoil, so all those hard hitting gun i mentioned above are kinda ok at the moment imo, and here we have the vector with around 1.0 recoil for both vertical and horizontal, 1200 rpm, damage drop off only kicks in after 100m+, why do i have to play with other guns while i have this mobile meat grinder, and of course, we keep commenting about the gun, devs keep ignoring the problem

[minor matrix]

Yeah the main problem as I see it is that the vector is too good for how easy it is to use

There are better guns out there, but they all have a much higher skill floor to unlock their full potential

Stevie wonder could stomp with the vector

[gaunt torrent]

go into the shooting range and actually mag dump the targets at 100m+ like you guys keep complaining is happening

[solid copper]

highly suggest you read through kafkas history if you want a laugh

[reef swan]

bro got laughed out of aim punch thread so he had to come here to complain

[agile hedge]

the poor flinch thread

[reef swan]

but let's not derail this thread as well

[reef swan]

good thing that it's gotten back to what it was like since people started to ignore the damn clown

[sweet birch]

maybe the real aim punch are the friends we made along the way

[gaunt torrent]

lol

[solid copper]

like a punch to the frontal lobe

[reef swan]

nah the real aim punch thread is the clown emojis you collect during a mental breakdown

[sweet birch]

talk like that and raz is going to show up and start autistic screeching again

[reef swan]

nice to see each thread has their own "that guy"s lmao

[agile hedge]

oh no pls not that condescending soggy toast again

[sweet birch]

just react with each of his responses with a baby bottle he loves that

[agile hedge]

still don't know how i came up with that

[reef swan]

for our dumbass just use clown emojis

you can do the same to the other guy he replied to

but saying "mod report" makes him shit his pants

[agile hedge]

all my homies use clown emojis

[reef swan]

god bless

[gaunt torrent]

i'm still waiting for someone to post proof you can mag dump someone at over 100m with the vector and keep a remotely decent time to kill, i must be too washed up to do it myself

[agile hedge]

i think my longest V kill was 78m

but i ain't that good

[main helm]

I'm uploading a video rn

[gaunt torrent]

i have a 121m with it but anything past 100m i'm tap firing. someone earlier suggested you could mag dump it and do it

[main helm]

You can consistantly magdump enough to kill 2-3 on the 90M~ target

[agile hedge]

so 100m is possible, yeah magdumping

[main helm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG8OPdKSL2Y

Not HD

yet

[gaunt torrent]

that's not 90m tho...

[main helm]

Is it not? red barrel is 100M

Target is a couple meters before red, unless I read the range wrong

[gaunt torrent]

barrel is at 82 unless i'm looking at a different barrel

[agile hedge]

4x scope on vector and ak15 in full auto

[agile hedge]

rly

[main helm]

Shooting range weird af, but ye- mag dumping on vector is more consistant than AK15 at that range

[agile hedge]

cuz your using them wrong 💀

[gaunt torrent]

see but this is what i mean, you're mag dumping at 60m

[livid hawk]

I remember listening to a dev stream and they mentioned something along the lines of "the vector is op in real life, it has like 0 recoil so it's hard to balance". I think they fell for the recoil mechanism marketing. In reality you have a ton of reciprocating mass within the weapon. Does it kill muzzle rise? Kind of. But when you're spraying rounds out of the thing, it's just super shaky. You have a harder time keeping your point of aim if anything. I think the gun seriously needs more horizontal, and probably a bit more vertical recoil.

[main helm]

I mean, I'm just a casual player

[agile hedge]

short range scope for both on that range

[main helm]

I saw someone ask for a magdump of vector so I recorded it

[gaunt torrent]

magdump kills at 100m+ range since people think it's so trivial

and then you post a video claiming 90m on a target 60m out

this is why i can't take the vector complaints seriously

[main helm]

I didn't complain about the vector

[undone blade]

I know the devs said they don't want to add randomness to guns via spread but SMGs either need more recoil or a damage fall off. If someone wants to single fire to use a smg as an AR but burst fire and auto shouldn't be a laser at range

[agile hedge]

well smgs just short range optics, certain ars with both

[main helm]

I literally saw you ask for a magdump video 💀 so I made one

[gaunt torrent]

i know you didn't, i'm not talking about you specifically

we're chill ❤️

[polar nacelle]

yeah, he probably should have checked the range first before posting XD.
But even then, should the vector have that ability to mag dump at 60m with a 4x?

[agile hedge]

not with a 4x but a 1x, yeah tbh

[gaunt torrent]

see, that's a better question. i don't have that answer. but there's a metric fuckload of complaints in here about vector destroying at 100m or nerfing it's drop off to get it out of the 100m range and, they have no idea how far 100m actually is

[agile hedge]

that's about the max range of the thing, atleast what it should be

[main helm]

I remember listening to a dev stream and they mentioned something along the lines of "the vector is op in real life, it has like 0 recoil so it's hard to balance".

So, as someone who is literally just getting here:

Why would they put it in the game then if they thought that? It's not like you have to include a certain gun (And the Kriss is/was experimental anyhow) Either way my piece for coming here in the first place was to say that the Kriss's firing profile is too muich like the SRB variant without the visible SRB

[polar nacelle]

yeah, definitely agree, people always say they get beamed at 100m+, but in reality its well within 100m.

[main helm]

Righto, me go now

[gaunt torrent]

yep, i'm in range right now testing and on the 150m stationary target and the ~130m moving target i can't kill it with a mag dump with any level of consistency. (or in the case of the 150 seem to hit it at all 💀 ) i'm too washed up for this lol

the vector is probably overtuned, but i think people are overestimating it and making it out as some god weapon when in reality it's just not, atleast not as much as people are complaining about it

[livid hawk]

Idk, seems weird to me too. I just wanted to point out that if the devs made the vector low recoil as an attempt at making it "realistic" then they should consider the reality that the vector is not in fact a laser.

[minor matrix]

There's a lot of hyperbole about the vectors effective rangr

But it is true that the vectors effective range is still too high for a smg

[gaunt torrent]

for sure, that's pretty much where i'm at. idk the best way to tone it back without neutering the gun (i really like that it sounds like a mini a10 in my hands, that's 99% of my enjoyment with the gun) but it's definitely not as unbeatable as people claim

[polar nacelle]

tbf, i think the most busted thing about vector is the magazine size coupled with that potential reload speed of 2.53s. That is probably one of the top mag size to reload speed ratios out of all guns. (Maybe except ultimax)

[minor matrix]

I think the devs are on the right track with the proposed accuracy nerf, though I'd prob also nerf mag size as well

[gaunt torrent]

i'd be fine with a mag size nerf if they'd do something about the drum mag's reload. we are in a warzone, and this guy is reloading like he's at the range with the boys cracking a cold one between firing

it's honestly unreal

or if they remove drum mag and make the extended mag the 40rd with some recoil debuffs

[minor matrix]

Yeah I'd agree with that

They need to revise the ext mags in general too

[gaunt torrent]

they need to review attachments in general

[minor matrix]

Honey badger gets like 4 extra rounds and gets absolutely fucked in the process

[gaunt torrent]

why does the mp5 even OFFER a 20rd mag

[minor matrix]

Tru tbh

[gaunt torrent]

with no other benefit to taking it

???????

[reef swan]

attachment machine broke

[gaunt torrent]

why would i want less bullets

lol

so many worthless barrels. they could add stock attachments while they're at it

let me remake my max recoil scar from mw2019

smg move speed on a scar h but it kicks like a dmr

[solid copper]

#1133097168991965304 message

here's my overall opinion, but loki is correct, the vector is really not that strong at 100m ranges. Yes, you CAN get kills with it, especially by spraying, but M4 and virtually any AR or DMR will be more reliable and faster to kill at those ranges. The only thing that really gives the vector any chance at that distance is skill diff combined with aim punch. Hitting moving targets is also even less reliable with vector than with other weapons.

Players complaining about its range are generally missing the problem with the vector; its large mag size, low recoil, and 1200 rpm combined with aim punch make it the most forgiving weapon in the game. It's TTK is fast, but not the fastest, that's not why it's so overused and feels so hard to play against.

Assuming aim punch is removed, by reducing its mag size, you nerf its long range dramatically in practice. This also carves out a niche for it as a powerful 1v1 or 1v2 gun, but removing its mag efficiency so it's not nearly as good for 1vX situations - similar to the MP7, which has just as good TTK in some cases, but only 30 rounds in the mag, and no one really complains about it despite MP7 being such an incredible gun, especially as a starter SMG

[gaunt torrent]

Walk, why do you have the literal best takes

[minor matrix]

Alright pack it up, thread closed

[gaunt torrent]

facts, that's it

[solid copper]

because I don't need crutch weapons so I can be objective in my suggestions for making the game better, and I'm good enough to not need to blame my lack of success on something like a specific gun

[gaunt torrent]

i only use the vector because it sounds like an a10 in my hands. blame GE

no meme though i been using the g36, the p90, the mp5, and the acr a lot lately

[solid copper]

3/4 of those are my top 5 list lol. ACR is just a weaker M4, but G36C is excellent, and MP5 is by far the best SMG, even with only 30 rounds in the mag. Idk why you would ever touch the vector once you have an MP5 available if you want to run SMGs

[gaunt torrent]

yeah mp5 feels filthy. things a damn laser the moment you put a grip on it

[minor matrix]

Nah mp5 is fiiiine

[agile hedge]

pp19.

[minor matrix]

Literally a worse mp5

[polar nacelle]

that reload speed though

[gaunt torrent]

i only have like 60-70 kills on the pp19 so i don't feel comfortable passing any judgement on it. it does seems pretty low recoil but i really don't have the experience to say

[polar nacelle]

also why does the UMP45 have a quick mag unlock at 500 kills?

[minor matrix]

Mp5 with urk and quick mag makes it reload fast enough tbh

Pp19 does have a nice base reload speed tho

[halcyon dune]

100% agree, but devs know that. im pretty sure

[minor matrix]

Lol no. The devs have already said smgs including the vector are getting nerfed.

[ionic fractal]

i love how this thread is just people going on very long and detailed explanation about why the vector is broken and delusional meta slave crying about the incoming nerf that they wont be able to dodge

[minor matrix]

won't be able to dodge

They just need to dropshot and lean spam harder

[reef swan]

yeah sounds like a skill issue honestly /s

[sweet birch]

they'll just be unable to play for a few days until the next youtuber comes up with a meta list for them to blindly follow

[gaunt torrent]

Do you really think even if they nerf all the smgs that the sweats aren’t just going to keep doing their thing but with the now much stronger in all encounters ARs?

That’s the real delusion

[ionic fractal]

i know there will always be a meta all i want is a more healthy one

[agile hedge]

it's a laser, even moreso than the mp5 and has amazing reload speed

[gaunt torrent]

Let me put this in perspective for you. I switch between m4, g36, mp5, p90, acr, and the vector. I play a lot of frontline so I regularly play with/against 2 of the sweatiest players in the game. I can drop 60, 70, 80 kills a game. Those guys are dropping 100, 120, 140. That’s not a vector gap. I’m literally that much worse than they are. They have same amount of deaths as me with double my kills.

Nerfing vector isn’t going to change that gap. I do think it needs a nerf. But I don’t think it’ll change anything ultimately

[sweet birch]

ok

[ionic fractal]

i understand that. all i say is: i want to be killed by someone with more skill than me not by someone with a point and click laser beam thant kill you before you can react

[gaunt torrent]

Then you need to nerf like 60-70% of the guns

[ionic fractal]

i'm not so sure

[gaunt torrent]

Only the aug I think is an outlier on body damage exceeding a 300ms ttk.

Everything else is roughly the same? Vector definitely needs a recoil touch up and a mag size reduction but I really don’t see it making a difference

We really need aim punch out tbh

[ionic fractal]

the problem everyone point is the high rate of fire combined with the aim punch that make you unable to retaliate... that the most frustrating part

(sorry for my broken english it's not my first language)

[gaunt torrent]

Yeah I agree with that. If aim punch is gone I think a lot of vector complaints disappear, not all obviously, it’s still a little overtuned but rn getting flinched every 50ms until you die is kind unreal

You’re good bro. I only know English and I suck at it. You’re doing great

[sweet birch]

the aug does brutal damage to helicopters which keeps it in the running IMHO

[gaunt torrent]

I play really aggressively so I took one peek into a 1v3 with it and died before the 3rd bullet hit and decided it wasn’t for me. I’ll take your word for it

[sweet birch]

Yeah playing with suboptimal guns isn't for everyone, i'm using the ultimax

[gaunt torrent]

For me it’s not even about optimal/suboptimal. I use what feels good to me. The vector feels good (and sounds like a mini a10 so ape brain go brrrr) so it works out. The coming nerfs are definitely part of why I’m trying out more guns now though. Gotta find something else that hits just right

I thought the pp2k felt good the first time I used it but can never find the flow with it again

[agile hedge]

it's just a big pp with nothing to back it excuse my profanity but "all cock no cum"

[gaunt torrent]

i'm gonna use that phrasing

idk what for, but i'll find a use

[agile hedge]

with malicious intent

[gaunt torrent]

here's a quote for you "put up your dick beaters, let's dance."

[solid copper]

It's good, fun to use, but basically out shined by vector mp5, and doesn't have a niche atm. 30 round mags but worse in every way than mp5. I think it'd be a great SMG that's more oriented towards mag effeciency, with a 45 round mag available that's got a decent recoil efficiency on it

[gaunt torrent]

makes sense.

[sweet birch]

I can agree with the vector is popular at least partially because its really fun

BRRRRT

[agile hedge]

brr brrr brrrrrrrr

[topaz rune]

this isn't really just about the vektor but it feels like gunplay seems to largely center around building a gun with zero recoil

i tried playing earlier here and using a DMR but it just plain isn't enjoyable

i'm routinely outranged by SMGs and... even an m249?

i get the first two shots off on a guy but it isn't long before he laser beams 10 bullets into my head with pinpoint accuracy

the game is fantastic but the balance issues stick out like a sore thumb

[gaunt torrent]

this is every shooter. max dmg with the most consistency.

[meager raptor]

Oh look, they made it here now.

[meager raptor]

"As well", confirming one of the issues i was commenting on. y'know, the thing that set you off for an 18 hour (ongoing?) meltdown. You and those 3 other guys derailing the threads.

Imagine telling on yourself after desperately trying to deny it for almost a full day lmao

[meager raptor]

Which @arctic tusk ?

[meager raptor]

Youre refering to yourself. You are that guy.

[solar olive]

Oki thinks the vector is overtuned. You should go tell him he sucks

[sweet siren]

What is oki?

No idea what that even means

[solar olive]

Lmao

[radiant umbra]

buff the scorpion, how does it has to have higher recoil than vector, I'd rock the vector anytime instead since it outperforms many guns now

[marsh oriole]

would love if the scorpion could use barrel attachments

[proper thunder]

Nerf vector !

[spiral osprey]

Baby dont hurt me

[median radish]

At this point I just kinda want the vector removed from the game.

Im tired of it being the only weapon I see 9/10 times

exaggeration ofc, but it REALLY feels that way sometimes. It's especially horrid on smaller maps and player sizes where it has too much of an effect on the overall match. It just dominates CQB and makes 64v64 or 32v32 unplayable for me personally, no room for ARs to shine. Idk. But it needs nerfing soon.

[minor wren]

vector should be brought closer to what the scorpion is imo and both guns need more horizontal recoil

[fallow yacht]

Yea honestly, not suggestion but feedback, vector and M4 are making me not want to play this game currently

[radiant umbra]

nah nerf vector with high recoil and lower the recoil on scorpion

lower drum mags, decreased range and just fck ton of nerfs for that op gun

[meager raptor]

Looking at who is doing reacts on suggestions in this thread. Its the same people who wants aimpunch removed.

They want to buff the vector

[meager raptor]

Look ^ point proven,

its the same people

[spiral osprey]

Youre a treasure

[pallid crypt]

Living in his head rent free

[arctic tusk]

hi this isn't me he's talking about I've never posted in here before, it must be someone else whose discord name is not raz but who asks people to call them that anyways

[versed saffron]

he said im the real raz mfer

[fallen oyster]

Buff Vector and all SMGs with 100 dmg, 0.0 V/H recoil & 1000m effective range pls

[agile hedge]

fr snipers are such a pest

[hushed vigil]

cry for vector = nub

[glacial geode]

Apologies if these were addressed earlier in this thread.
The Vector is best-in-class for close range combat and with even a couple attachments feels way way good to use. This is good!
I think to give the other SMGs a little more breathing room the Vector would be served well by:

• A smaller magazine
• A slight damage reduction at range (increased fall-off) [-.3 or -.5 @ 200m]

[rough elk]

Give it scorpion's fall off 😂

[noble nexus]

That's not even an exaggeration, most of in order of deaths it literally Vector, Groza, AK recently, and then Snipers kill me like 1/20, ak 2/20, and Groze sitting at 4/20

[granite nacelle]

TTV in your discord = nub

[sweet birch]

listen his 7 subs are going to be very upset when he goes 15/20 after losing the vector

[abstract python]

I also mentioned this before, but removing underbarrels from it could also be a suggestion, given they look proportionately hilariously tiny on the gun as well as the fact groza can't have them. But yeah, I agree with these, realistic nerf suggestions

[peak tendon]

add 20 round mag and make it default, put heavier penalties to the now extended/drum mags

underbarrels should be put on a barrel extension part that shows up if an underbarrel is picked, which would then change stats accordingly. like slower movement/ads/reload

[polar nacelle]

think they intentionally omitted it for the groza for balancing purposes. Also why there are no magazine options for that gun as well.

[abstract python]

I think 30 should be base, battlefield 2042 made its vector equivalent start with 20 and its basically unusable garbage

[peak tendon]

20 works just fine in insurgency. the two-round burst is actually practical in that game, though, which isn't the case in this game.

[abstract python]

doesn't insurgency incorporate the vector in its like "proper" form with its recoil reduction

[peak tendon]

It does. Negative recoil, even.

It goes down

[abstract python]

yeah, in 2042 it kicks to high heaven like most games decide to balance the vector

I think if a capacity nerf were to happen, I'd be happy if they did 30 first, see how it impacted the gun, and went to 20 if necessary

[willow mauve]

25 maybe

40 was just way too much

overperforming gun and you give it 40 rounders by default, actual balance decisions

[abstract python]

40 rounds AND a quite quick reload given it has 40 ammo

the mg36 has 40 and its reload is slow as a snail in comparison

[compact sentinel]

vector's mag size really isn't the issue. you'd just be nerfing it for the sake of nerfing it rather than solving anything
the real problems with it are the excessively fast TTK, and being extremely easy to use even at 100m due to little to no recoil and very forgiving damage fall-off

if you had to spend more bullets per enemy gamer, and the bullets weren't braindead easy to connect, then having 40 bullets really wouldn't be that bad on it

[abstract python]

I think no one here was suggesting the only nerf to be a magazine size reduction, it was mostly that + something else, either no underbarrels or increased damage dropoff

[gaunt torrent]

please go into range and actually shoot the target at 100m with a vector before saying it's easy to use at 100m

[minor matrix]

ITT: people who don't know what 100m is in game

[gaunt torrent]

the endless problem of battlebit, people don't know distance

[compact sentinel]

i have gotten plenty of kills with it at 100+ meters. you just have to lead your shots. stop coping

[gaunt torrent]

my furthest is 121m, you're tap/burst firing for any kill beyond 80-90m, stop being disingenuous to beg for nerfs. it needs them but don't be stupid please

[compact sentinel]

sometimes you can really just hold it down because the recoil is just that negligable

and as aforementioned, the damage fall-off is extremely forgiving on it for whatever reason

[gaunt torrent]

every smg has the same fall-off atm. and the vector is the least dangerous past 80m given that the pp19 and the mp5 are both actually 0 recoil (and the mp5 has the exact same ttk)

[sweet birch]

if there were bulletholes in terrain you could measure groupings easier XD

[glacial geode]

You definitely can spray for a kill or two at +100m since it only takes 3-4 hits. Reducing the mag size would make spraying your whole mag for a kill a little more resource intensive and give players less time to adjust their aim mid-spray. I think we would be surprised if people had 25-30 bullets down from 40.

If people, post-adjustments, insisted on continuing to use the Vector for medium range engagements, this would also indirectly buff support players.

[gaunt torrent]

the time it takes you to kill 1-2 people at 100m+ with the vector (disregarding how many bullets you need to hit, you're not hitting all your shots instantly at that range) is high enough the other person should beat you outright, unless they're also using an smg

[glacial geode]

Agreed.
All things are not equal here but PUBG was the first game in which I encountered the Vector and they had also designed the gun to dominate close-range engagements. In PUBG the Vector Magazine Size was 19 bullets (33 w/ extended mag). The super high rate of fire really makes you feel the smaller mag sizes and increases the importance of hitting your shots rather than being able to spray and transfer to new targets.

[gaunt torrent]

yeah, i def think a 30rd mag with a 40rd extended is the move

like, it 100% needs a nerf, i just don't want them to remove it from existence because people who can't tell distance keep claiming it beams at 200m or some shit

[sweet birch]

the big part of the vector right now is even with the standard mag you dont even need to aim, just full magdump while waving it back and forth vaguely over your target will kill them most of the time

[gaunt torrent]

i like the mini a10

i think removing aimpunch+30rd base mag would go a long way

esp if they clean up attachments for other weapons so you can actually get ar ads speeds down (at the cost of recoil control ofc)

[arctic condor]

i think the following nerfs are fair:

• reduce rate of fire from 1200 to 1100 rpm
• increase vertical recoil from 1 to 1.05
• increase horiztonal recoil from 1.1 to 1.2

[sweet birch]

so basically nothing, got it, lol

[timber lotus]

Why Devs are ignoring the issue about Vector ?

why its taking so long to nerf a OP gun

[wide nimbus]

Impulsive changes are more often than not bad changes

Just give them time to make it right

[timber lotus]

If its taking weeks or months for a small change on a gun then we have big problem in the future which will result as a decreasing of a player pop

[radiant umbra]

you're just being impatient tbh

you know people have life outside other than gaming right

[timber lotus]

this is a gaming discord so whats the issue

[radiant umbra]

give them some time, devs will sort it out

[peak tendon]

making the game is literally the devs' job though (poor larry though, still gotta do a 9-5 until the money drops)

[rugged palm]

What I wanna know is why the ScorpionEVO has less ammo, less damage past 40 meters, slower reload time, slower running speed, slower ADS speed, and has almost 3 times more vertical recoil than Vector. It may actually be the most useless gun of them all.

[gaunt torrent]

There’s 3 devs and a lot more than the vector needs to be adjusted

[timber lotus]

For example

[peak tendon]

the rest of the feedback threads

[frozen oyster]

Changing a few variable values and throwing up a test server would go a long way to cooling shit down instead of literal silence on balance issues and letting people echo chamber inside feedback channel

[sweet birch]

most likely they are partially through a patch cycle and aren't done with that part yet
branching off changes and then recombining them again later is a really bad idea XD

Logic dictates its probably easy to change some stats on something but it might not be so simple if they programmed the tree like dummies XD

[inner ibex]

Rather them be patient rather than speed nerf shit

Because that's exactly how we get shit nerfs and buffs

[fallow yacht]

They probably do, they just don't invite me/you

Oki was asking for people with high playtime in the patreon channel

[main helm]

vector having 24 damage despite its 1200RPM is ludicrous.

It should have the lowest damage in SMG weapon category, potentially even in the whole game.

For weapons to feel fun to play against, higher RPM == less damage and lower RPM == more damage.

Having both high rpm and high damage is a recipe for disaster, especially with aimpunch guaranteeing vectoids win every gunfight in their effective range.

IMO a drop to 20, maybe even 19 damage would suffice.

That'd make damage dropoff prevent it from shooting effectively beyond point blank, & suddenly those 40/60 mags wouldn't be OP since you'd have to expel way more bullets to reach the same DPS as other weapons, even other SMGs.

[radiant umbra]

buff the scorpion evo not gonna after unlocking it its damn hard with high horizontal recoil, im going back this vector

[meager raptor]

Oh no, you did it. Clown reacts is coming, brace yourself.

[reef swan]

RPM and damage per bullet being inversely proportional was a thing in BC2 IIRC, but people then bitched about same calibre bullets dealing different damage

[spiral osprey]

Dude saw someone whos name has the same colour and mixed it up with himself

[reef swan]

true lmao

[sweet birch]

"RPM and damage per bullet being inversely proportional was a thing in BC2 IIRC, but people then bitched about same calibre bullets dealing different damage "

one of the 9mm pistols does more damage than either SAW

[gaunt torrent]

I mean they need to do a full attachment rebalance for every weapon because 90% of the attachments in each category are pointless. They need to do something with aim punch (I’m all for removal but not the thread for that). They need to adjust multiple weapons, not just the vector(hence why we have so many feedback threads for that). They need to buff the non-medic classes (I’d think this is obvious, also feedback thread). They need to make new maps (maybe new guns?). They need to do all that and more with 3 people. Without breaking the game

I’m perfectly happy to let them cook and get it right in one try rather than needing years of buffs/nerfs

[radiant umbra]

pretty convinced devs must have swapped the vertical recoil for the scorpion evo to vector, why tf does the scorpion have high vertical recoil when a level 70 smg gun has lower one?

[gaunt torrent]

Evo needs to have front grip options

[radiant umbra]

2.7 horizontal recoil, cmon that grip won't solve that alone

[gaunt torrent]

The evo also falls into a different weapon class and has a higher ttk than the vector (current public enemy #1). Just wait till someone crazy gets their hands on it.

[main helm]

yeah im also seeing those complaints with the ARs in this game, as someone who grew up mostly playing CoD though I wouldn't mind too much if they had unrealistic stats in pursuit of fun

[sweet birch]

the stats are already unrealistic when the vector doesn't fall apart immediately

xd

[radiant umbra]

I'm already using it im level 150 currently and it saddens me how high the recoil it has, it might be cause me to stop playing till they make it more manageable to use and reasonable for its level requirement

[solid copper]

I think it's great, one of my favorite guns to use. With how powerful it is, it should be hard to control. I love how low its horizontal recoil is, as well. Atm the only reason I don't play it more often is because of how hard aim punch messes with your aim when you're already pulling down that hard trying to control the recoil

I think I got about 2k kills with it atm, mayne 2.5k, between my prestiges

[stark mortar]

Okay... why do SMG's have so much accuracy at long ranges?

[minor matrix]

Devs fucked up

[solid copper]

Lower recoil, high fire rate, but mostly because players are bad at judging distance in this game. Many think 50m = 100m lol

A small damage reduction on smgs combined with smaller mag will reduce it's effective range dramatically

[sweet birch]

also it seems that hit packets take preference over miss packets, so when you're being shot by them you may only see the shots that hit you, making it feel like you got lasered with 100% accuracy

[main helm]

Tbh I think most of the high damage rifles could just do with less horizontal recoil vs the lower damage high ROF guns needing more since they already have basically no recoil by comparison

M4, AK74, and Vector all share this trait of being absurdly powerful in a game where most other guns are already pretty well balanced

[agile hedge]

m4 and ak74 are balanced tho, the other ars are just lacking in comparison

[gaunt torrent]

i mean, i think the vector is the only true outlier and even then it isn't by much. (and i'm almost positive 90% of the vector issue is aim punch+mag size)

note that i do like the vector so i don't want it gutted but i do think it needs adjustment. even though i'm also very certain that the moment it gets nerfed the mp5 and the p90 just fully replace it

[main helm]

I think they're a lot closer to being balanced than the Vector, but they're COD recoil in a Battlefield game essentially

[main helm]

SMGs almost as a whole need a bit of a nerf. Only ones that I don't think deserve any nerfs are the PP19, PP2000, and MP7

[gaunt torrent]

mp7 almost certainly will need a damage adjustment after vector nerf. it's even faster ttk-wise than the vector lol

[agile hedge]

nah man they are balanced, aswell as being the introduction to the games gunplay for most

[gaunt torrent]

^ and the ak15/fal are the current stand out AR's requiring more skill to use. it's fine for the m4/ak74 to be top level but not better than those (in my opinion) with the recoil profiles being as they are

[agile hedge]

m4 and ak74 aren't better a lot of the time due to ttk and tapfire on longer ranges, they only rly exceed the other two in medium range combat imo due to easier to control recoil

[gaunt torrent]

they're better for the average player than the ak15/fal (are available earlier so will feel better due to attachments anyway) and while they will lose at longer ranges they're totally serviceable up close.

[main helm]

I'm gonna be honest, the AK-15 and SCAR-H are my most used rifles and I'm definitely not hitting clean headshot sprays out to 75 meters with the optimal attachments like I can with the M4 and 74

They really don't need massive nerfs, but they're already incredibly good out of the box with attachments making them laserbeams

[gaunt torrent]

^^

[agile hedge]

yeah that's what i meant by m4 (just gonna leave out ak since it's nearly the same and for simplicity) being better at "medium range" than those 2

and they def. don't need a nerf i think they're good rn

[main helm]

I think at the least they could tweak the attachments to not make them so absurd

That's really one of the main issues I've had thus far

Attachments make already good guns insane and more specialized guns are stuck with really annoying side to side recoil that leaves them in a very odd spot

Plus most of the attachments that deal with side to side recoil make absolutely everything else those guns struggle with so much worse

[gaunt torrent]

they need to do a full attachment rework

that's not even a vector issue, just all attachments suck lol

like, there's 3 good grips for smgs/ar's, the b-25 urk for reload time reduction, the vertical grip, or the se-5 grip

[agile hedge]

you forgot the bcm and stabil grip on dmrs

[gaunt torrent]

i dont use dmr's can't speak for them sorry

edited comment

[agile hedge]

they are kinda mid tbf

[gaunt torrent]

• Kriss Vector's damage adjusted to 22 from 24.
• Damage drop-off now starts at 10 meters, not 50.
• Standard/Quick magazine now holds 36 bullets, down from 40.
there's the upcoming vector nerfs

someone do the math, what does this actually change?

[sweet birch]

you do minimum damage at midrange instead of at like 125

[gaunt torrent]

so we all switch to mp5/p90 then?

[sweet birch]

it'll be interesting to see how many more bullets it actually takes at regular ranges

[gaunt torrent]

within 10m it doesn't change anything

the pretty much instant you add drop off it's going to take 1 extra bullet

cool well, that's the end of the vector feedback. ummm, prolly not worth using, we all go mp5/p90 instead, see you all in the mp5/p90 threads

[sweet birch]

ok

[lapis jewel]

Depends on how aggressive the damage falloff is
The thresholds for 100 dmg with 5/6/7/8 shots are:
20/16.7/14.3/12.5

I imagine there's going to be a second balance pass for smgs in general that nerfs max range

[wide nimbus]

I don't think the vector is so imbalanced that it will have any noticeable or detrimental impact on the playercount. And there's a lot more to it than just tweaking numbers randomly without thought.

[wide nimbus]

balance > realism in most cases

[solid copper]

• Kriss Vector's damage adjusted to 22 from 24.
• Damage drop-off now starts at 10 meters, not 50.
• Standard/Quick magazine now holds 36 bullets, down from 40.

huge nerf

[wide nimbus]

now apply that damage dropoff to all smgs

[reef swan]

hard agree

[wide nimbus]

Realism over balance is totally fair in games where realism is a focus and a selling point

[arctic condor]

Rip vector

[solid copper]

nah it won't hurt vector that much. TTK is mostly unchanged up until 50m, just a bit weaker against specific armor configurations. After that takes additional bullet

[rough elk]

But at least it only works good at close range now

[arctic condor]

its actually a sizable nerf, assuming dropoff ends at same distance and range, its basically one more bullet to kill within 30 m to 50m, for all/most armor types

at 30m, old vector does 24 damage, new vector does 20.3 damage for example

24 damage is 5/5/6/6 bullets to kill for unarmored/light/medium/heavy
20.3 damage is 5/6/7/8 bullets to kill

combine that with the reduced magazine capacity and ya its a sizable nerf that does make it noticably less effective

[rough elk]

Good. A reason for ARs to exist 😂

I hope the falloff is effective and spreads to other smgs too.

[arctic condor]

10 m start of falloff is a bit harsh imo, like id avoid SMGs entirely (unless I get killed by them often in which I'd try them out again)

[rough elk]

10 is what I think the scorpion has to live with 😂

[arctic condor]

havent unlocked scorpion yet, but i tried it out in the range, i dont think ill be using it at all

[rough elk]

Fr fr

[wide nimbus]

tbh I think they could have made the mag size 30

And maybe made the reload a tad quicker

Or 36 and a nerf to the reload speed

I think either 20 or 30 rounds is the standard mag size for the vector irl

[arctic condor]

I think the vector users will go to MP7

[lapis jewel]

gone ahead and did a bad edit of what it'll look like on a dps graph

still dps king under 50m, and on par with other guns form 50m to 90m

keep in mind that smg recoil is very controllable compared to other guns

you still can be sprayed down from 100m+, but it won't be an instagib

[rough elk]

Still king of cqc as intended

Yeah that looks nicer

[marsh oriole]

seen it usually be 25 rounds standard

[marsh oriole]

vertical recoil makes it cheeks to use

[arctic geode]

The Skorp is a DMR

[main helm]

In my opinion the issue with the SMGs is the combination of too high accuracy and not enough recoil. I suspect an extra bullet to kill at longer ranges will do very little to the gameplay when that extra bullet comes out extremely quickly, goes perfectly straight and has very little impact on the gun barrel… but we will see, good to see that it has at least been accepted that the vector in particular is far too influential

Next time you get fragged by someone using this broken gun at extended range, ask yourself if it needing one extra bullet would have kept you alive. My money is on no

[vernal jewel]

Rip vector users 😂😂

[reef swan]

IIRC oki already talked about a general accuracy nerf to all smgs

[main helm]

Copy that, good to hear 👍

[timber lotus]

Vector abusers enjoy your last moments.

[radiant umbra]

if devs could lower the vertical recoil on this evo. I have to crank up my vertical aim sens and its still kicks so bad

[arctic geode]

You kinda get used to it

after 8000 kills.....

I've been trying to catch Oki

see if I could convince him to give the evo quick mags and osprey barrel

[reef swan]

bro is about to pull up on oki with a scorpion evo 💀 /s

[radiant umbra]

im done, I'm going back to p90 for now

ain't having fun with scorpion hope devs replace it with much better control

[sweet birch]

ok

[random sun]

Kriss Vector should have its magazine size reduced drastically to 13 rounds, with an extended magazine upgrade to 25 rounds with hefty recoil penalties. The reasoning behind this is, if we can’t nerf the recoil because of American Space Magic, then this gun should only serve as a 1-2 kill self-defence weapon.

[reef swan]

We are trying to balance it not kill it

13 rounds with vector's rpm would just make anyone who unlocks it not use it cause why bother? You can nerf it down to 20 something and it'd be fine but 13 is just murder.

[agile hedge]

it already got nerved to damage dropoff at 10m, 22dmg and a 36rnd mag and making it that bad just turns it into a meme "oh you know about the old vector that dominated with medic? nah man it's a glorified glock with less magazine capacity and takes up your primary weapon slot "

[sweet birch]

you should use the glock instead

[agile hedge]

if this guys nerfs applied then yeah Dx

[random sun]

Taking up your primary opens the opportunity for loadouts where the secondary can be good. E.g buffed RsH12 with scope and actually good damage/dropoff. The fact that the gun has already been nerf doesnt justify the nerf being not enough and if people arent on board with the usual nerfs on recoil, damage, rof, dropoff then I'm just suggesting a nerf on mag size.

Edit: I was only afraid that 20 might not be enough and doesnt have a basis on reality as no Vector mag have the capacity of 20, only 25 and 33. So I im just being conservative on the matter

[fallow yacht]

Lock thread until next patch drops

[reef swan]

You don't need to be 100% realistic in your stats because you are not 100% realistic to begin with. Vector has a bunch of problems irl that are not an issue in the game simply because they are not implemented.

[random sun]

We can only nerf it where it can be nerfed ingame and should be sticking to reality where possible. But if we are no longer restricted by reality then we can do an infinite amount of things, we can go the Siege route and nerf the recoil to hell even though the gun implemented the American Space Magic Recoil System. We can nerf the damage to PP-2000 level. We can nerf the rof to some not-Vector rof. We can nerf the damage dropoff but I doubt it would do anything anymore.

[winged atlas]

stay mad

[timber lotus]

enjoy your last moments man

[winged atlas]

enjoy staying mad at a gun in a video game

[minor matrix]

Vector isn't even being nerfed that hard, it'll still be a very good gun

[wide nimbus]

And if it needs nerfed more then it can be, multiple small tweaks to make it right is better then one massive nerf that goes too far

[minor matrix]

Ngl the aim punch changes might be the bigger nerf for it

[wintry swan]

i reckon 80-90% of the engagements are close quarters only. This wont change much in the terms of gameplay

if you ask me, all kills, unlocks (for the vector) and xp gained through the use of vector should be reset. Everyone has to start its progression from scratch

but im not sure if that is technically possible

[winged atlas]

yep

[winged atlas]

[glacial geode]

The close range maps are some of the most popular: Sandysunset, Frungis, Tensatown.
I would bet that 80%-90% of engagements happen within 100m, but I think the adjustment will reduce kills that people get the most frustrated about. It's a good tweak.

[solid copper]

It won't, because the people who were complaining about being sniped by vectors at 100+ meters were dying at 50m or less lmao

They couldn't tell distance for shit. But it's a good change

[wintry swan]

The problem with the vector was that it had a insanely short ttk, you could be blasting a guy in your face with a higher caliber assault rifle but he'd still kill you first because of the high ROF of the vector

And because almost all engagements happen in short distances and NOT 100m like you mentioned (just record your own gameplay and see what distance you kill or get killed from all the time)....... I have a slight feeling this tweak has made the situation slightly, not much but slightly worse because they upped the damage from 22 to 24 lol

[solid copper]

The damage went down from 24 to 22, not up.

[solar olive]

it should help beyond 50m, so eh, might help in some of those eyeballed engagements

[wintry swan]

Ah yes it's to 22 from 24

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-emperor-look-stare-gif-15923185

A minor improvement, but a welcome one

[late crescent]

All SMGs should have their effective ranges reduced

[polar nacelle]

lets see how the nerf plays out before suggesting more nerfs to the gun.

[fallow yacht]

effective accuracy reduced, fixed that for you

[abstract python]

adding bloom to guns is one of the laziest fixes you can do

damage dropoff being nerfed is the best approach, as well as a magazine capacity reduction

[rough elk]

yeah, SMGs dominating only within the scaled CQC ranges 🙏

[meager raptor]

dont post that in here man, this is vector county.

[pliant oar]

it was nerfed? from 9002 dmg to 9001 dmg?? thing still melts you from 14 football fields away with zero recoil for the user... i shouldnt be contested at sniper range by an smg...

[agile hedge]

"sniper range", you mean 35m?

[pliant oar]

no, i mean like 100m+ but they can see the glint off my scope (another issue entirely) so they just spray at it and bam im dead cause i got clipped by 2 bullets from an smg

[agile hedge]

i'm sure it wasn't 100m+ and why would you use a long range scope anyway?

[pliant oar]

look, im not here to argure with someone who wasnt there, and god forbid i be newer to the game and have only recently learned the mid scopes dont give glint,
the scope is not the issue, the issue is more than half of the playerbase is using a vector because its overpowered.

[agile hedge]

give it a couple of days and the vector will be nerfed, already announced

[pliant oar]

okay so the answer to my previous question would have been: not yet, its coming. 😂

[gaunt torrent]

If you die to a vector at 80m+ it’s literally on you, especially if you’re sniping

[agile hedge]

yeah that as well...

[pliant oar]

at 20 rounds per second... and 4 of them kill you from fresh spawn health... i have 5ms to move or im dead... but no its my fault

[gaunt torrent]

You’re welcome to go into the shooting range and see what using the vector at 80m+ is actually like. But if you’re having problems with the vector right now it’s gonna be a real bad time for you post-nerf when everyone switches to the mp5/p90 which have even less recoil

[pliant oar]

mp5 and p90 have 800rpm each... those extra 400 bullets a minute make a massive difference...

to the tune of ~7 per second...

[gaunt torrent]

And despite that the mp5 matches pre-nerf vector ttk

[pliant oar]

its really weird, i thought this was a feedback thread... apparently its just shit on anyone who gives feedback though 🥲 classic video game community amirite

[agile hedge]

it isn't to shit on you, but a few things that gets mentioned is due to less then optimal play and positioning or just bad luck, such as your sniper with scope glint against vector at 50-100m yk

[main helm]

Next time you get fragged by someone using this broken gun at extended range, ask yourself if it needing one extra bullet would have kept you alive. My money is on no

Copied from above but point remains. The gun needing one extra bullet to kill will not change much, the issues with all the SMGs (too high accuracy combined with not enough recoil) is the same here imo, just to an even greater extent on the vector because of it's TTK. I'm looking forward to the patch either way but one extra bullet to kill at extended ranges is likely to do very little, again imo

[pliant oar]

no, i get that, but my point is with how many guns are available to use. and over half of everyone is using solely the vector (once theyve unlocked it) ... the gun is the issue... regardless of my positioning, if im sniping, or running around. 90% of my deaths are a vector. the other 10% is the m200 or nades/rpgs
idc about dying, thats the point of the game. but its to a point that no matter what, if youre up against a vector you have to not only have the jump on them, your connection has to be better than theirs aswell or they spin around and doink you

[pliant oar]

ah yis, someone who gets it 🥲

[main helm]

Imo all the SMGs have the same problem, but yeah most pronounced on the vector

Generally each class of weapon should excel in it's own range and be beaten by the others in their niches. SMGs should be CQC weapons, so why are they absolute lasers with no recoil and high accuracy?

Multiple people above have said 'balance over realism', so if realism isn't important, why do they need to be accurate at AR ranges?

Personally I don't actually think the accuracy is the problem, it's the complete lack of recoil, which makes absolutely no sense in either a balance or realism context

[abstract python]

The way to balance smgs being beams is to make their damage dropoff heavy enough that they lose to guns that outrange them, and again, people overestimate ranges often, a vector is not beating an aug/scar at 100m

[main helm]

Yes it is

With how headshots work in this game it is much easier to hit concurrent headshots with SMGs than it is with ARs

Why do they need to be reocilless lasers?

[abstract python]

It does at 50m, it has a fighting chance at 70, beyond 80 is already more or less impossible assuming both targets are not wide open

[main helm]

I disagree, it's got a lot more than a fighting chance at 70m

Why is dropoff 'the way' to balance them? Not being toxic just intrigued

I do not understand why they need to be accurate at longer ranges and recoilless

Why should they be accurate beyond their dropoff range?

Again, that serves no purpose for either realism or balance, imo

[abstract python]

I’m just not a fan of randomized bloom or making smgs kick like they’re shotguns, which is how most games balance them

[main helm]

They don't need to kick like shotguns to not be accurate at longer ranges

There is a huge middleground between those two points, and we are no way near the 'kick like a shotgun' point

They are absolute lasers, and this is the problem

Dropoff is irrelevant when you can hit someone 5 times in a row in the head at 75m+

[abstract python]

I mentioned it because pretty much every game that incorporates the vector barring insurgency sandstorm makes the vector recoil basically like a full auto shotgun

[main helm]

Probably because it behaves like that IRL?

But like we said above, balance over realism, so it doesn't need to be that

Just some measure of enough recoil to make it not trounce ARs at ridiculous ranges

[abstract python]

It actually does not, its recoil reduction mechanism makes it kick down, not up, funnily enough

[main helm]

But it still kicks

Beside the point anyway, as said above realism isn't important in the context of this game (which is a good thing imo)

[abstract python]

Not nearly as much as it does in most games, which is my point, they make the gun have much more recoil than it actually has to balance a 1200rpm laser beam

Because otherwise you do have issues like this

[sweet birch]

it doesn't

[abstract python]

But yeah, from experience using the k30 (vector equivalent in bf2042) reducing the magazine capacity is actually quite a big hit, it has 20 ammo at base in that game and a lot of times you cant just spray or you run out of ammo and die

[solid copper]

hop in firing range and lemme see some of these sprays real quick

[main helm]

Exxageration for effect clearly, but tell me it's not much easier to hit concurrent headshots with SMGs than ARs

The reason everyone is crying for this nerf is because it is trouncing ARs at AR ranges

Yes clearly I'm one of them, but adding one more extra bullet to kill at AR ranges does little to a gun that shoots insanely fast, doesn't recoil and is highly accurate

[gaunt torrent]

I think it’s more to do with people using ar’s in smg ranges and dying due to sprint out+ads speed diffs

[abstract python]

The reason I personally want it nerfed is more the fact that it is overperforming in the ranges smgs should be to the point its de facto the best option

[gaunt torrent]

And if you really think the vector is recoilless please do post some shooting range footage on the 100m target

I’d love to learn your methods

[solid copper]

This is a feedback thread, if you can't be objective, don't give feedback. bad/innaccurate feedback is worse and less than useless.

I have no problem hitting concurrent headshots on ARs. At the ranges you are talking about, SMG headshots are irrelevant to begin with due to their lower multiplier, you should be aiming at the body. ARs, especially the AUG you brought up, however, can reliably hit headshots. I use the FAL all day and hit headshots at that range consistently, especially since I burst 2-3 shots with Stabil grip.

[abstract python]

It has insane fire rate, an impressive magazine capacity which is higher than all the other smgs and a very fast reload speed given its formerly mentioned capacity

[main helm]

I've given plenty of constructive feedback above. Is reacting with clown emojis constructive?

[solid copper]

Yes.

[sweet birch]

if you want to simulate perfect control you can reduce the time scale in the shooting area down

[gaunt torrent]

I think the complaints about the vector/smgs in general are genuinely a combination of perception issues.

[sweet birch]

I think its mostly the netcode making it feel like people have infailable aim

[gaunt torrent]

People think they’re being lasered at 100m and it’s really 60-70. AR users getting caught sprinting within smg range and dying while thinking they shouldn’t lose at that range. And yea the netcode being weird

Idk wtf they doing to the servers. I had 23 ping one time a few weeks ago (I ping the servers at 29) and now I’m getting 70+ in game

Also, aim punch is giga broken and the vector is the number one abuser

[solid copper]

if you are in the US, they have servers in USW, USC, and USE. Depending on which you connect to and where you live, your ping will vary. For example, I can be 90, 50, 30, or 10 ping depending on which datacenter i connect too.

I'venoticed 185/186 servers are US West like 95% of the time, though, so I avoid those

[gaunt torrent]

I need them central servers dawg, gimme the numbers plz

[solid copper]

the server browser always shows 10-20 ping, though. I don't think there's a specific naming convention at this time. There really should be, ping makes a huge difference

[gaunt torrent]

Having 23 ping was like, firing a burst and the target dies to the 5 bullets it takes to do 100 damage. And then I still had 25 bullets left for more killing

I cried tbh

[wraith violet]

Vector has a bullet velocity of 400 meters/second.

All assault rifles have a bullet velocity ranging from 600-900 meters/second.

At 100 meters, the Vector has to lead 250 milliseconds ahead, while all assault rifles need to lead anywhere from 112 - 167 milliseconds ahead.

If you are getting getting killed by a vector at that range, you are either getting outplayed or you are too predictable and are getting punished for it.

Calling for nerfs in the form of fall-off damage screams of entitlement and only serves to reduce BattleBit into a low poly rock/paper/scissors game revolving around weapon and distance.

I'm kind of baffled that damage fall-off is a mechanic in non-hitscan games. Damage, RoF, Bullet velocity, accuracy, recoil, and bullet drop are much more than enough to balance weapons around without making them magically inconsistent across distances.

[solid copper]

ya PUBG was similar, SMGs were easier and had solid TTK but always ARs were preferred due to better range

[sweet birch]

ok

[hushed vigil]

buff pls

[urban aspen]

yeah doesnt the rifles and smg in pubg have like big difference in like base damage? meanwhile here in battlebit its similar no?

well not similar but close to each other

[solid copper]

most SMGs have lower dmg than most ARs

MP5 has a bit higher, and some ARs have a bit lower so they're close but overall SMG is less than AR damage wise

[urban aspen]

yeah sure its lower but the damage arent that far apart as pubgs gun like vector has 31 dmg(?) and m4 are like 40
(?)

[solid copper]

ok what

don't forget about armor, in PUBG you can have up to 65% damage reduction, the raw values get reduced dramatically

that affects TTK dramatically as well, especially combined with recoil which gets harder as you shoot more bullets out of the gun. Meaning first 5 shots are much easier to hit than 5-10, which are easier to hit than 10-15, etc

so the damage reduction affects SMGs more as a result. That many bullets to hit, especially when they are harder to hit longer distance, makes SMGs much worse than an AR which could kill in your first 5 bullets, or 2-3 if you are hitting headshots.

also, very low or no aimpunch(can't remember, I think none but it's been a while)

which means the higher damage + higher headshot multiplier further seperates AR from SMGs, even in close range

lastly, consider that the averge engagement distance is often higher on PUBG - a ton of kills are in CQC, but long range harassment/damage is incredibly important to give you oppurtunities to close, since it's a battle royale and not a game like bb where there are two distinct teams with frontlines

in bb, you can force CQC in every fight if you choose, in PUBG you don't have that luxury, the zone can easily push you into long range engagements, so the flexibility that ARs offer in that case is often the deciding factor. SMG/DMR was a very common loadout, as well, though. DMR would take of mid/long range and then SMG up close

[main helm]

longest vector kill ive ever had was 100 meters on the dot. Which was considerably longer range than someone else who has used the vector upwards of 5 times more kills (3,500) than me. (600) People who whine about getting beamed at such ranges really don't know what they are talking about. 100 meters is a VERY LONG distance in this game

[gaunt torrent]

i've pushed it out to 127m as my longest kill but i also have almost 3k kills on the vector

and i'm not really sure how i managed that

prolly just some guy on 1 hp that i hail mary'd

[urban aspen]

i dont use the vector but an mp5 but my longest kill is 134 meter

[sweet birch]

after ultimaxing for a while I no longer worry about ripping ammo at people at stupid ranges, I'll still tap you a few times and be annoying XD

[main helm]

Yeah that's how I got mine too. Already weakened enemies. Too hard to control to kill someone max hp at that range

[urban aspen]

have you guys tried zeroing your gun when you start at 100m?

[wraith violet]

Across the legacy Halo games, it's a similar situation despite there being no fall-off. While certain weapons can excel in their short range niche, they are straight unusable in the majority of engagements due to high RNG spread. As a result, good players always prioritize the midrange weapons because while they do not have the fastest TTK, they are consistent and are just as usable up close as they are far, granting them the title: utility weapon.

As much as I love that series, the sandbox will stale if you want to use anything other than a utility or power weapon. When Halo was ported to Steam, new players called for the removal of utility weapons from matchmaking because they made 50+% of the sandbox irrelevant in the majority of engagements.

Had they designed the ARs and SMGs to be sub-optimal but usable at distances through the use of high accuracy/low bullet velocity or a consistent recoil pattern instead of the RNG spread, it would have been a different story as they would retain their outplay potential at the cost of being difficult to use at range.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because if the changes players here have been advocating for both the vector and SMGs in general such as lowering accuracy (RNG) or increasing damage fall-off, assault rifles are going to become BattleBit's utility weapon because the 10% increase in movement speed alone isn't enough to justify having to land half a clip at 100 meters to get a kill. In fact, having recently been running and gunning with the G36C, I can safely say that they already are.

[wraith violet]

On occasion, yeah. But I exclusively run laser on SMG

[sweet birch]

"assault rifles are going to become BattleBit's utility weapon because the 10% increase in movement speed alone isn't enough to justify having to land half a clip at 100 meters to get a kill."

I'd say since like 90% of their kills are from coming flying out of bushes on a flank, this is silly

:p

[urban aspen]

everytime i spawn i set mine to 100m so i can lazer everything around 150m atleast

[wraith violet]

Which one do you use?

[solid copper]

Yea just adding bloom or reducing accuracy is a super lame method of balanceing this sort of game, imo. The distances are large enough so bloom just makes the game suck horribly to play.

It was one of the major issues i had with BF - specifically, suppression, which added bloom/reduced accuracy on guns and turned many mid-longer range fights into RNG instead of skill

[wraith violet]

I haven't played since 3 or 4. I thought suppression just killed your peripherals and muffled sound, killing awareness. I liked that aspect. I can't say I'm a fan of the others.

[wraith violet]

Didn't you just say your longest kill was 134m?

[solid copper]

nope, it added massive bloom. They toned it down over time, so maybe you only remember the tuned down versions, but both BF3/BF4 had that as an effect. it was absolutely lame

[wraith violet]

That's pretty lame.

I probably didn't notice cause I played Bf3 casually. I spent 90% of my time trying to find creative ways to kamikaze the enemy.

C4 jeeps, C4 jets, C4 helis. . .

[urban aspen]

yeah

[wraith violet]

But you're lasering everything at 150m?

[sweet birch]

6 damage laser

[urban aspen]

i mean you can try. use mp5 zero it to 100m tactical barrel + vert grip

lasering but i mean i didnt say you can kill fast

lmao

try it at the shooting range the gun actually lazers

[wraith violet]

I'll do it rn just for you.

But those are also still targets.

[urban aspen]

idk what scopes you use tho

cuz i cant damn aim with red dots

for some reason on any game

lmao

[wraith violet]

I can't help but wonder how well ARs can laser with similar attachments.

[wraith violet]

That's funny; I love red dots.

Scopes mess with my muscle memory lmao.

[urban aspen]

im the quite the opposite red dots mess me LOL

[wraith violet]

Hahahaha

[urban aspen]

medium range scopes are my go to on everygame

and when its cqc i just prayge my hipfire hits

[wraith violet]

When I run ARs, I use delta as my main scope with the mid range being my secondary.

Full auto just feels easier to control too.

[wraith violet]

It definitely shoots straight.
But the slow bullets and lower base damage don't make it ideal for moving targets at that distance unless they're moving like the practice targets.

I hope no actual player moves like those dummies do.

[sweet birch]

with the vector your problem is you are trying to aim

if you drunkenly wave the gun back and forth over your target enough bullets will hit and kill them

(im serious, its an improvement to trying to guess exact bullet travel and such)

[wraith violet]

I was using the MP5 setup.

Vector already has plenty of recoil since the last balance update.

[urban aspen]

since the smg bullet drop like noticable in around 100m that zeroing actually helps alot too

[late crescent]

i was purposefully being vague but yeah that would probably be the best way to do it

[main helm]

2bh i never considered doing this

what's your longest kill with this strategy?

[urban aspen]

i do this on any gun but if you are asking on an smg on my mp5 its 134m

[main helm]

how about w/ vector zeroed to 100m?

[urban aspen]

only tried using vector like in one or two times in a match

havent tried on vector

like some guns will shoot straight even at 0 zeroing

but on smg you can feel the bullet drop off at what 100m?

[main helm]

i c i c

[urban aspen]

150?

[main helm]

not sure, tbh i feel velocity first

[urban aspen]

anyway i zero mine at 100m just in general

on any gun

[main helm]

that could be another good way to nerf smgs instead of bloom, just make their velocity like 450 or 500

[urban aspen]

except if i just wanna chill and try to be a wannabe sniper

smgs velocity are around 400

well most of them

[main helm]

ohh i see

[urban aspen]

but yeah i just zero any gun on 100m and i wont need to adjust my aim for anything below 100m

especially on smg

[main helm]

if zeroing saved between spawns id definitely have mine 50m minimum at all times

[urban aspen]

also like i said i use medium scope (slip on smg and prisma on ARs since i cant aim with red dot for idk reason)

[main helm]

im more of a red dot guy myself 😅

[urban aspen]

yeah i checked you need to aim higher a little bit on mp5 tried pointing the mp5 at the its head and its hitting the shoulder or neck

thats around 100m

and if you zero it to 100m just goes where i aimed at and wont affect anything below 100m

[main helm]

daaamn

definitely gonna start doing that

[wintry pawn]

vector is still op

[wintry swan]

at face distance

if it cant do that then theres no point having it in the game

[gaunt torrent]

the prestige 6 guy seems to be entirely unaffected

[fringe dagger]

Op laser gun

[gaunt torrent]

lol it never ends

[sweet birch]

he probably plays his entire game under 10m running around at 40mph and flanking

not ripping mags at dudes at extended ranges

[gaunt torrent]

yeah i'm watching his movement and it's honestly insane. i've done some crazy stuff but he's literally just running people down while they're shooting at him and they can't kill him

[sweet birch]

there you go

[solar olive]

So as it should be

Good tbh

[gaunt torrent]

yeah. funny listening to people complain about the vector in his games

155/25, man is wild

maybe some day i'll get a 100 kill game

[sweet birch]

there's a lot of weirdness with hitboxes if you're constantly lean or mantle spamming

[agile hedge]

my best was 42/13🥲

[gaunt torrent]

my best was like 95/38?

shit's tough

[agile hedge]

holy shit man

[sweet birch]

it was easier early on when everyone was running around with garbage and you just unlocked the groza

[gaunt torrent]

i got that a couple days ago. i'm improving, slowly

[sweet birch]

there was also a lot more teamwork/medicy stuff going on early

[gaunt torrent]

i started a few weeks late, and spent my first 15 hours playing assault while i relearned playing an fps

[lyric hollow]

Gun is booty at range. Pls don't change it's perfect

[visual patrol]

bullet drop nerved to much

[vagrant talon]

It doesn’t really have any situations where it makes sense to use it now, imo

[fallow yacht]

Yea it does, it still rinses up close

It's just not a booty blaster in the mid range

[vagrant talon]

There are many guns that rinse faster up close and further away at the same time

[fallow yacht]

I mean, it's objectively still better or on par with most SMGs

Someone did a nice graph showing that out to (I think) 60m, the ttk was identical to the MP7

[vagrant talon]

Hmm. Maybe. Not convinced it’s better than the MP7 any more

[vagrant talon]

Do you have that on-hand?

[fallow yacht]

I'll see if I can find it, there was a good Reddit thread

[vagrant talon]

At point blank I currently find the vector to be 7.6% faster to kill than the MP7. Though the MP7 has a 0.1 seconds faster aimdown time, which makes a difference as well

[fallow yacht]

Bigger mag on the vector

It's a balance thing

[vagrant talon]

Used to be quite a bit bigger, but it’s shrunk a lot thanks to the rebalancing

Vector only gets about 0.25 more kills per mag now

[fallow yacht]

It shrank by 3 bullets

Sorry, 4

[vagrant talon]

Yes, but the damage lowering also contributed

It made a bigger difference than I expected but I can’t argue with numbers

[frozen oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/feels-good-man-nicolas-cage-gif-5444501

What playing BB today feels like

[wide nimbus]

What many guns

You are still rinsing people in under a second

Not many, if any guns can do that

Oh I read it wrong

Vector dominates in cqc

[vagrant talon]

literally every gun in the game apart from snipers does that

[wide nimbus]

Last I checked, the upper average of guns still had a tkk over a second

[vagrant talon]

have you even played the game

guns do NOT take a second to kill

(this is with armour btw, 40% limb shot chance 20% headshot chance)

[sweet birch]

Hey look another ttk calculation that assumes 100% accuracy

take a screenshot of your actual accuracy

[reef swan]

Hey look another rhetorical question

[minor matrix]

bro, that's literally the point off ttk calcs

mfer missing the entire point

[gaunt torrent]

But my actual accuracy is wrong. I’m hitting my target. Even when I’m not hitting my target

Them mfers over there be suppressed as fuck

[sweet birch]

They should add a gun thats straight up impossible to use but is statistically the best XD

[polar nacelle]

Scorpion Evo is kinda like that

[rough elk]

No vertical recoil. All horizontal 😂

[sweet birch]

I'm kind of surprised the kriss folks haven't gone autoglock tbh

the thing is great

[reef swan]

shhh don't tell them

[sweet birch]

I accidentally started using it when I found out pistol = fast run XD

[reef swan]

and also vector seems just as usable as before just not on anything outside it's designated range

[gaunt torrent]

why go to a pistol when the p90 exists?

[sweet birch]

because p90 is a primary and not every one is playing a medic
just like 80% of people

[gaunt torrent]

just faster to reload most times, or go to your c4, than to rely on a secondary

extended mag is basically required on the auto glock or you run into issues finishing a single target

it's strong, i use it. but it's good for 1 kill at best

and at worst it breaks off armor

[sweet birch]

look

what I was saying was I already have the pistol out because it helps you run faster

I dont think changing to c4 is faster than ads

[gaunt torrent]

depends on situation/number of targets/is the person you're about to shoot a support

cause if so i'd just go to movement and try to c4 him over using the glock

[solid copper]

You mean like the scorpion EVO, or the FAL which has insane horizontal recoil? Or the AK15 which also has a ton of horizontal recoil? And yet, those guns absolutely shred, despite how hard they are to use

[agile hedge]

the fal is usable, if you know how xD, the scorpion tho omg the recoil ahhhh

[gaunt torrent]

i ran into a guy in the frontline server who was absolutely fragging with the evo

got absolutely wrecked by him, definitely respectable

[minor matrix]

Guy's pull down game on point

[gaunt torrent]

i mean he got me once from a decent range too, i was shook. started paying attention to where i heard a minigun and avoided that area

[hearty saddle]

After the update it is definitely more balanced, still a good gun but not going to dominate. Although I've only got to try it for a few hours, I would say this balance was done correctly.

[vagrant talon]

I can recompute the stats with a lower hit rate if you like

[vagrant talon]

Doesn’t exist, guns are purely differentiated by their stats

[sweet birch]

need ttk for snipers including bullet travel time

[vagrant talon]

I don’t see TTK as a useful measure for sniper rifles myself

Doing so would basically assume you’re using a sniper in the same way you’d use an smg

[sweet birch]

I dont see TTK as a useful metric period but here we are

[vagrant talon]

How so? It quite literally determines how quickly you’ll kill someone in a gunfight

[inner ibex]

It's useless when you go up against anyone of lower or higher skill majority of the time.

[vagrant talon]

…why?

[inner ibex]

Only real situation it matters in is when players are equal in skill

[vagrant talon]

Sure, if every situation was in a sterile environment and everyone performed totally consistently

But if your gun kills 0.05 seconds faster then that gives you an advantage that can push you over a higher skill enemy that would otherwise win ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[inner ibex]

So you understand why TTK is almost irrelevant in a lot of situations then no? 💀

[sweet birch]

it doesnt

[gaunt torrent]

so then the vector didn't need a nerf? since ttk doesn't matter since people won't be accurate anyway and that makes the mp5 the superior smg?

[minor matrix]

TTK isn't meant to be the sole stat to consider. But it's an incredibly helpful metric that you ignore at your own peril

[vagrant talon]

I don’t know what you mean by that. There are situations where it isn’t relevant, sure. Most gunfights are not this.

[gaunt torrent]

since it's an actual laser unlike the vector

[minor matrix]

You're supposed to consider ttk along with other attributes

Not just ttk by itself

[inner ibex]

But if that player has better reaction time and mechanics, who do you think is winning that fight majority of the time?

[vagrant talon]

Very much a straw man argument. Vector wasn’t powerful just because of its ttk, that hasn’t changed much.

[vagrant talon]

The better player. But the worse player having a faster killing gun is gonna give them an edge no matter how you put it

It’s not like you either win every fight you go into or loose every one of them.

[vagrant talon]

Though I think you are agreeing with me. But it’s still a dishonest argument anyway

[inner ibex]

Sure, but if that other player can use that edge more consistently and accurately than the worse player then at what point is it a advantage?

[vagrant talon]

When it biases the results in your favour. Which it does.

Give the better player a gun with 5x the time to kill, see if they still win :)

An exaggerated example, but there is no magical cutoff point where it stops making a difference

[inner ibex]

Give both players the same loadout and the better player wins 9/10 times.

[vagrant talon]

And what relevance does that have to the debate whatsoever

better player = better?

[gaunt torrent]

yeah that's what a skill gap does. that changes nothing when comparing guns vs other guns where things like ttk make a difference. obviously ttk isn't the end all stat, otherwise everyone would use the evo

[inner ibex]

If you're going by TTK then it should be a stalemate if TTK is as large of a factor as people think

[vagrant talon]

…elaborate?

[gaunt torrent]

it's a pretty important stat. the ak15/fal have pretty big recoil yet are incredibly popular becauseeeeee their ttk

[inner ibex]

But then why do we have guns like the SG550 being brought up in discussions?

[vagrant talon]

Give one player an M9 and another a long barrel FAL and shove them into a CQC fight. Player skill can be randomised for both of them. Which one do you think will win the most?

(spoiler: the FAL)

[vagrant talon]

Tbh the SG550 is just a worse AUG in my opinion

[inner ibex]

Give the M9 player a deagle and then run that lol

[vagrant talon]

But nobody is arguing ttk is the only factor

Its significance should simply not be ignored.

[gaunt torrent]

idek who was talking about the sg550 but the sg550 is totally serviceable. you do understand that most weapon ttks are within reason of eachother right? you can actually just use whatever gun and have success

apparently the hk419 is not great? and the acr was apparently so bad it needed a buff, and i've run 60-70 kill games on both with sub 20 deaths

ttk isn't the only stat, but it does need to be considered

[inner ibex]

Ok so we're basically in agreement then that TTK isn't the only factor in a guns performance, didn't seem that way from what I was reading.

[vagrant talon]

Nobody argued that at any point

Is started when GodForge claimed ttk isn’t useful at all.

[inner ibex]

I'm basically trying to say that TTK just isn't a good metric to judge a gun on past the average human reaction time imo. Hell a lot of things outweigh TTK in the actual usage of the weapon.

Hell I'll hot take and say the fal isn't even that good after using it for almost 1500 kills

You'll get easy kills, but you don't have the room for error like you would with the AK15 or the SCAR

[gaunt torrent]

i picked up the fal and started using it like the vector, works great for me

[inner ibex]

Not to mention bullet velocity hurts it outside of SMG ranges. Heavy and long barrel isn't viable because of how hard the recoil gets hit.

I honestly think people are gonna honeymoon it and then drop it when they realize all they can do with it is get the odd 50-60 kill game with it and MAYBE 75+ if you get some juicy flanks.

And that's on the higher skill band.

[gaunt torrent]

idk, i've been doing 70+ with basically every AR and smg. FAL definitely feels the most free. outside of jank armor shenanigans

[vagrant talon]

Heavy barrel isn’t a major detriment to recoil imo. It’s noticeable but not big, it won’t do a lot to the range where I switch to tap firing

And it makes it the fastest ttk in the game :D

[inner ibex]

Same, but it's consistency isn't there. I can get more kills over time with the SG550 and G36C

[inner ibex]

Yeah I'd say you'd have to run it as a DMR at that point since the recoil doesn't mix well even when bursting

But it's def better than the scar in that role

[vagrant talon]

I find I’m able to snipe people with half decent reliability, so I’m fine with it. My recoil control is admittedly poor from relative lack of practise, interestingly I think I’m not as good with lower recoil guns as full auto with them still doesn’t do it for me at longer ranges

[gaunt torrent]

tbh might just go back to the vector

[sweet birch]

the whole issue with the vector was the total lack of recoil, cone of fire and damage dropoff meant it actually performed to its ttk

[inner ibex]

This

[sweet birch]

most other guns you're missing at least 25% of the time, usually more

[inner ibex]

The more you shorten variables to hit the TTK, the more consistent it is

[gaunt torrent]

at what range and are you saying most because you're including every gun? or just comparing it to the other smg's 2 of which had far less or equal recoil with similar ttk's

[inner ibex]

And the vector had fucking zero variables

[inner ibex]

Now this I don't agree tbh

[gaunt torrent]

i mean, you sound like the guys saying they got beamed at 100m by a vector, when nobody has shown proof of reliably doing so even in the range

[inner ibex]

Majority of other guns have other factors than just accuracy affect their proficiency, armor being a huge one

[gaunt torrent]

so, i take statements like that with a grain of salt

[sweet birch]

show me your stats screen frontpage loki

[gaunt torrent]

why? you wanna see my 2.8k vector kills?

[sweet birch]

sure lets go with that

[inner ibex]

If you can use the evo, you could beam at 100m with pre-patch vector lol

[gaunt torrent]

the recoil hasn't changed. go into range and do it

[inner ibex]

Not home atm, I'll do it if I remember to in like 6 hours

But I literally watched my friend who isn't great with fps games do it just fine while he was testing guns out in the range

[sweet birch]

I'm dying to see what this guys accuracy %age that he's arguing that people miss at least 25% of their shots lol

[vagrant talon]

Vector recoil hasn’t changed, it’s just gotten a bit more damage dropoff

[vagrant talon]

Depends on the context. Reasonably close range gunfights you need to hit almost all your shots to kill people reliably. Until recently accuracy stat counted things like helicopter miniguns though, so most people’s accuracy is significantly lower than it should be

[inner ibex]

Recoil wasn't the argument, I'm aware the damage dropoff was adjusted.

Vector's recoil wasn't and still isn't insane.

Nothing evo or fal levels

[vagrant talon]

It is weird that it seems lower than it should be, but I haven’t been able to work out why. Same seems to apply to LMGs

[sweet birch]

see above image

[inner ibex]

LMG's being low is fine atm since they all kinda eat shit collectively anyways tbh

They need a balance pass BAD

[vagrant talon]

That partially discredits a lot of what you say imo :)

[vagrant talon]

L86 is pretty good though

Some people like M249 but I’m not a fan of it

[inner ibex]

Yeah, once you waide through the mental battlefield that is leveling it, same with the famas.

Which I don't have a issue with, but a lot of the later unlocks offer nothing

[vagrant talon]

Mm. Makes a difference but not a major one. I would say it’s more viable with a long barrel but the difference isn’t major

[inner ibex]

Like the ultimax honestly has no reason to really be there other than looking cool

[vagrant talon]

Yeah, that needs more going for it

[solar olive]

The recoil is way too high for what it is

Compared to the vector it's higher recoil

Point is though for gun buffs, do they match the m4

Or the mp7

If they don't have enough to be a pick over the others, it needs more

Simple as

[sharp mantle]

Vector being nerfed proves that vector isnt the problem, game sense is lol, its literally made for flanking

[gaunt torrent]

Yeah reading the other smg threads I can tell the fun is going away. Make way for our new AR overlords

[solar olive]

Wtf does this even mean the guns ttk below 50 meters is the same

[minor matrix]

Shit take ngl, the main bulk of the vector complaints was about the guns over performance at range and how much it breaks aim punch in the game

[main helm]

The vector being nerfed has had very noticable gameplay feel changes

I'm not getting lasered by a vector 45 meters out and losing the fight even though I landed the first shot with something like an AK-15

Losing up close to the vector feels fair because I took a bad fight in its designated power area

[minor matrix]

I think changes to the progression, the vector nerf and aim flinch reduction have all gone a long way

[main helm]

Absolutely

[minor matrix]

To fixing half the lobby using vectors lol

[gaunt torrent]

i preferred half the lobby using vectors to the amount of snipers i dealt with today

not much fun trying to work a flank and, oh can't go that way because there's 2 snipers looking over here nowhere near the fighting

try to go a different way? don't worry there'll be plenty more snipers watching that side too

[main helm]

Sniping as a whole is way too easy

[uneven gust]

Just remove the gun at this point.

[vagrant talon]

Snipers haven’t gotten better

I’ve heard several people say the new reworked maps are bad for sniping as well

[rain geode]

1851 messages 😂 who tf will read all this

[inner ibex]

Smoke nades go hard

[gusty stratus]

i read that devs nerf vector? but its not...its still op., every second man use this gun....i have no fun to play..

[gaunt torrent]

it's not op. unless you're getting caught inside of 10m with it

[gusty stratus]

how ts not? every second man play with vector., close combat you cant beat. and gun single point spray without recoil

[sweet siren]

Your English is bad..me no understand

[inner ibex]

I do...

Blud has no higher brain function to piece together that he's saying the gun has no recoil and you can't beat it in close range.

[sweet siren]

Me from Argentina

[inner ibex]

I mean, he's wrong

[sweet siren]

English no good but maybe little..you run in window mode

[inner ibex]

Oh if you actually don't understand English that well then nvm

[sweet siren]

Help with game in some time but maybe soon if this ok

Need some time little one shit in pants

[inner ibex]

Oh nvm you understood

[runic furnace]

still way too strong, you can just laserbeam anyone up to 100m

[gaunt torrent]

post video proof of you doing that in the shooting range

[vagrant talon]

You really can’t. At least, much worse than almost every other gun

You’re gonna be doing about 12-14 damage per shot at that range when most guns are still at full damage, or at least higher

And the spread you’ll get with your shots from recoil and inaccuracy will cause a lot of those to miss regardless

[gaunt torrent]

i have a better suggestion, nerf rpg's

bout as likely to happen anyway

[uneven gust]

100% the RPG and nade/C4 spam is way worse than the potato gun that the vector is now. It's ONLY good in close quarters, useless compared to anything outsid eof it. If your getting rammed by someone outside the bullet drop, your just bad

[grave trail]

how about just make maps not so flank heavy and close quarters

[slow fiber]

about to break the 2nd rule fr

[rough elk]

It's ONLY good in close quarters
I see no problem with that lmao

[grave trail]

I've started to wonder if it's more of a map problem and less of a Vector problem. EVERY objective in this game is very CQ heavy, and I'm sure if we had access to heat maps of player deaths, most of them would be on objectives.

[sweet birch]

most smg players paths are hug the edge to avoid the main fight then converge on an objective where easy targets are spawning and walking to the front line, so yes

[gaunt torrent]

The maps are very weird in that they swing wildly between cqc favored to “good luck walking outside because you’re in full view of every sniper playing, even the ones not in your server”

It shows really heavily in frontline on maps like sandy, waki, basra, and valley. You run around cqc fighting at the start and then the moment you push to the next set of objs it’s sniper heaven with no way to flank/approach without being in view of somebody (who is somehow ALWAYS in their safe border)

[sweet birch]

tbh, if you want to combat that, the best way IMHO would be to decrease long range accuracy when using a medium scope
like 75+% of snipers are using medium scopes to avoid glint which makes them vulnerable because you can just binoc + tag -> snipe with a red dot or medium scope, its fine even at 1000m, which is kind of stupid

[wide nimbus]

Or just have a small amount of glint for medium scopes

No need to make them utterly useless

[sweet birch]

"not able to engage as effectively at 1000+m" = utterly useless

~_^

[wide nimbus]

You didn't say what you quoted anywhere

It's a sniper

Reduced accuracy based on the type of scope? Cmon

That's silly

[sweet birch]

its silly that youre using a red dot at 1000m based on an imaginary arrow too

could also just on weapon switch, clear your own marker arrows for yourself

[half stream]

bro it was only good at max 50-80 meters before. now you can't kill anyone past 10

[sweet birch]

I can't?

[gaunt torrent]

it's def a struggle once the drop off kicks in but given that people are still coming in here to complain about "getting lasered at 100m" i won't be surprised if the vector receives another nerf

[sweet birch]

I better start running a rangefinder

[gaunt torrent]

i can't wait for the casuals to get all the smg's nerfed out of the game so we can all become short mag FAL gamers

[rough elk]

Just as the NATO gods intended.

[gaunt torrent]

smg's bad 😄

[reef furnace]

Still overpower after update

[mossy island]

I don't know why they don't just keep the damage, but up the vertical and horizontal recoil a lot. That'll make it a cqc beast, while making it worthless at range.

[peak plume]

Vecter irl literally has no recoil

[mossy island]

irl is not a video game

[gaunt torrent]

why are we talking about the scorpion?

[turbid frost]

Once the devs realize aim punch was a mistake the gun will be fine until then gun is still dumb but all the sweatlords have moved over to the p90

[frosty yew]

the guns are supposed to actually mimic the real gun. And it's a fact that the vector has no vertical recoil (iirc it even has slight reverse vertical recoil due to its system.)

[mossy island]

Then all 5.56 rifles should 1-2 shot unarmored kill due to internal shrapnel if you're going by that logic.

or mp5 doing little to no damage to armored enemies due to 9 mm

[vagrant talon]

The overall time to kill of the game is slowed down compared to a realistic simulation, so it’s decently consistent. The damage numbers cannot be accurate for balance reasons, as the real life complications with damage simply do not exist in battlebit and cannot be accurately replicated either without a serious rework of the game.

[radiant umbra]

I feel bad for you

[jade totem]

I find the firerate is incredibly oppressive, the vector can shoot alot more bullets to output alot more dmg in cqc / med range (50-100m) by the time you react you've been lasered by the vector (I'm old and slow :( )

[uneven gust]

well that's just wrong. Because anything over 10m it drops off immensely where the gun is by far overpowered by anything due to it's damage output. at 50-100m your barely tickling them, so if you get ~3-4 shots off of almost any AR they are toast anyway while they will at best, be bleeding (this is an equally skilled comparison). Not lost a fight to a vector user since the nerf. They need to relook it if anything and change some aspects, as bullet drop off the way it is, makes it a mostly useless gun as most maps, are no running from corner to corner. AR's, btw, are not for CQC, so if your using one and getting beamed up close, well that's where SMG's are powerful., IRL and in game. As for age, well I will say that's on you. I'm 36 and beam down people all over with an array of guns so.... While it might not be a popular opinion, but the vector got nerfed in a bad way, now it's gone from being, admittedly OP, to being kinda shitty. Hence why most users swapped guns.

[rough elk]

Hence why most users swapped guns.
They swapped cuz it's no longer OP, to something else that still works well despite their skill issue

Vector is fine imo, still top dog for CQC, but no longer as ubiquitous for longer ranges. Hopefully the rest of the SMGs follow the falloff curve so ARs become the common "average across most engagements" gun again

[jade totem]

I've played plenty of games since the nerf and I've have experienced plenty of games where vector players end up going 60+ kills and sub 20 deaths, I agree "skill issue" to a certain extent but a fire-rate nerf would be beneficial or add more guns with similar fire rates

[uneven gust]

I'd have to disagree as the vector is a REAL world gun, and it's fire rate is what the real world gun is. It's not as OP as people think. If anything, there should be slightly more recoil so it's harder to control, but even then, you have to factor in that they are making things as close to real world as they can. As for the score, I often go anywhere from 30-60 kills with 0-5 deaths. And not use the vector, maybe they should nerf all the other guns I use too? Every gun has it's use, snipers are cowards who hide away in the shadows, AR should be long mid-long range excellers and SMG's mostly close range/50-60m. You are entitled to an opinion as much as myself or anyone else but I don't agree that they are so OP compared to all other guns. If people keep thinking it's op because they die to it, well, first of all, someone has to die, secondly, are you fighting close range, maybe stop being so close? I've died a few times to vectors since the nerf and I never thought, damn, it's so op. If there really is such a big problem with it, which I don't understand, they might as well just get rid of it. Everyone can choose their guns, if your getting beamed by people so badly long range, as you say, with it "med range 50m-100m" then you are the problem there. Any gun almost will win in that range. 🤷‍♂️

[radiant umbra]

fire rate for this gun is already on par with real life vector

[jade plover]

Thats the problem I think, probably better off removing it alltogether

You're never going to be able to balance it realistically

[craggy pecan]

It’s balanced right now

[jade plover]

I disagree

[craggy pecan]

How is it unbalanced?

[jade plover]

Firing past 30 metres, all you have to do is empty the mag and you're going to kill what you're shooting at. There's no need to burst at all even with the recent changes. Also the mag size makes it more than capable of wiping out 3 people in close quarters against anything other than another vector

What would help is a proper body armour system but we won't get that

[vagrant talon]

have you considered that every single gun in the game can do that

[jade plover]

Not at that firerate they cant

[vagrant talon]

if the only guns we treat as existing are vector and scorpion then of course, but that's also a totally null argument

the vector doesn't have a high kill-per-mag potential, though it was fairly good before the nerf

[jade plover]

3 to 1 mag in cqc is pretty good

Especially at that fire rate

[vagrant talon]

if you hit every shot, it's more like 5.7 - 1

but that is not high

an M4A1 gets 7 - 1

[jade plover]

Yes but once again, the firerate is what reduces the risk for the player

[vagrant talon]

what do you mean by that?

[jade plover]

By being able to kill 3 players in less than 3 seconds is alot lower risk than taking longer to kill those 3 as they will be shooting at you

The fact that you can kill players faster reduces the risk of them killing you if they have to take more time to kill you

[vagrant talon]

that is time to kill, not fire rate

there are many guns that kill faster than the vector at point blank.

[jade plover]

The firerate means the time to kill is lower, ttk is just the damage multiplied by the firerate

[vagrant talon]

well, all of these

[vagrant talon]

no, that is DPS, a useless measure in this game

[vagrant talon]

notably all of these can kill more people in a mag than the vector, with the exception of the As Val

[jade plover]

Okay fine, Time to kill the damage multiplied by firerate against the health / resitance of the target. either way its the same thing expressed differently and dosen't change the fact that the vector is just not able to be balanced

[vagrant talon]

false. it is based around the shots to kill, which is not in inverse proportion to damage. the graph of those would be more like a very coarse staircase, while your assertion would require it to be a flat line

the vector is balanced as-is. It's kinda weak imo.

high fire rate does help when you miss a lot of your shots, but I really don't think that is a big enough factor to make the vector top tier any more

[gaunt torrent]

Still using the vector here, 3k kills made me very comfortable with the recoil so I still do better with it than other smgs, the gun is fine. Arguably a little weak but if you’re using the gun in its “zone of power” not much has changed. I’m dying to more groza’s now, not sure if that’s just the sweats swapping or if the nerf actually affected that match up (I’m assuming skill issue on my part)

Still getting the same vector op complaints when I clear a room

[silver plank]

Groza just thumps, its alittle slow rate of fire allowing for really accurate controll, reguardless of stats. Pulling off head shots with its already really good damage means 2 - 4 hit is a down, pending headshot with or with out head armor.

[halcyon dune]

vector is love

[crude night]

its not good anymore lol. the mp5 stomps it

[slow vale]

i personally think the vector is better at its current settings in terms of balancing, maybe a bit aggressive on the knock off range but i wouldn't want it changed at this point in time, still my favorite non AR.

[cosmic lava]

buff vector

[compact sentinel]

agreed, it should get buffed (but only by getting back 40 bullets instead of 36)

what kind of a fucked up magazine holds 36 bullets

[vagrant talon]

33 would be realistic

[sweet birch]

the bullets are square not round you're lucky it feeds at all

[gloomy snow]

Honestly its in an amazing spot rn to where its good at cqc while still not having ranged performance

[jaunty agate]

Would be nice if the optics weren't basically the same size as the gun they're on.

[gaunt torrent]

tbh i think the vector nerfs were too much

atleast too much if we're going to round robin buff random shit for no reason

wtf is the g3, why are groza and mp5 unnerfed

[minor matrix]

MP5 got a massive nerf

[gaunt torrent]

the mp5 got the same damage fall off nerfs every other smg got

and then there's the vector starting at 10m

fucking what?

i be handing out fucking 10 piece's with the vector these days

10 hitmarkers no kill

legit dumping half the mag for a kill 90% of the time, it's unreal

god forbid there's a 2nd guy there, or the hitreg be off

enjoy dumping the rest

to probably die for an assist that won't even count as a kill

this was nothing but headshot hitmarkers on 1 guy in a window, assist 72?????? within 20m

[compact sentinel]

the range nerf was well deserved considering vector has little to no recoil

i do think it should go back to 40 rounds instead of 36 though

[vagrant talon]

Not really

Vector recoil is significant

It’s not super high or anything but it’s a lot more than many guns

[gaunt torrent]

If the thompson was the Chicago typewriter, the current vector feels like the American hit printer. Oh I hit that guy on my screen, 8 fucking times. For not even an assist counts as kill.

I’m over 7k kills with the vector now, (5k post nerf) and the gun feels severely outclassed. Especially with every rat running around with the g3 that is for some reason a full auto marksman rifle?????

[vagrant talon]

Yet some people still claim it’s OP, so good luck getting it buffed again.

[gaunt torrent]

90% of players are turbo trash

The people thinking vector is still op would be bottom percentile and not worth balancing around

[compact sentinel]

lol, lmao

1.00 vertical and 1.10 horizontal recoil is "a lot more than many guns"

brother.

brother.

i urge you to think before you post. vector's damage fall off got neutered precisely because it has no recoil, so you could very easily laser people

[vagrant talon]

just gonna ignore the fire rate?

[compact sentinel]

it was cancer. it's still very strong in CQC, but you can no longer use it as an assault rifle

[compact sentinel]

dude. it's literally 1.00/1.10 recoil. it's still nothing, even with 1200 rpm

[gaunt torrent]

The fall off starting at 10m is too much

It’s not even dealing full damage to people in the same building as me

[compact sentinel]

good? close the gap

[vagrant talon]

1.1 is decently high for horizontal recoil
we have very different definitions of "nothing".

[vagrant talon]

ahhh yes, close the gap in the 0.25 seconds before you die

[gaunt torrent]

It’s definitely a contender for worst smg rn

[compact sentinel]

if you're trying to use SMGs as assault rifles instead of trying to flank people then that's kind of a personal problem, innit

wow, i can't BELIEVE this weapon that excels up close is not also really good past 50m. so dumb!