#The Armor System

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

rugged ginkgo
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445 seconds of lining up the tap with the highest damage assualt rifle in the game and still missing 3 shots on a laying down sniper

final ravine
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youre beneath me

gloomy schooner
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you shouldnt being here

rugged ginkgo
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@high olive DONT EVER TALK ABT RECOIL CONTROL AGAIN

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you did yourself so dirty by posting that

gloomy schooner
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not worth your time

high olive
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sure i did, it's not that you two are toxic man babies

final ravine
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"shouldnt being here"

rugged ginkgo
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but you said someones recoil was bad as an excuse for armor earlier?

gloomy schooner
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too precious

rugged ginkgo
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being a hipocrit is crazy huh @high olive

high olive
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Sure

rugged ginkgo
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i bet if we side by side the clip from earlier

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someone will look alot better

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i wonder who

high olive
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i mean, that was at 2am after working all day and also being stoned so I at least have an excuse, and I only said the first clip out of the two he posted was recoil related and that the other one it was understandable why he was annoyed but yeah totally a hypocrite. KEKL

rugged ginkgo
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Doesnt matter you have no excuse because you talked down on another players skill when your terrible

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next time someone posts a clip and you watch it drop the ego you love being a pro player in your head

high olive
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I never claimed to be, that's just how you assumed I meant it

rugged ginkgo
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easy to say "bad recoil control" from a viewer standpoint

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now you just look dumb as fuck

high olive
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I mean, I have better clips but I also am not wasting my whole lunch break breaking them down so i'll get more for u later

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I also wasn't using my usual attachie setup, either, because I actually experiment kappa

rugged ginkgo
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id love to see whay you consider a "good clip" also attachments barely meant shit besides accuracy and sight pictures

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recoil barely changes and if u think it does you prob just cant control it well in the first place

high olive
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uhuh, sure!

rugged ginkgo
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my default M4 and fully decked out 450 kill m4 feel the basically the same

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only difference is kobra sight and less bullet spread at range cause of accuracy attachments

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recoil attachemnts do nothing

knotty hearth
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@rugged ginkgo Please stop derailing the thread, this is about armor and now attachments. Also refrain from the personal insults, otherwise we'll have to dish out some warnings.

rugged ginkgo
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@ only me is crazy ngl but alright

final ravine
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didnt ask flarson

knotty hearth
final ravine
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okay discord mod

knotty hearth
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Actually, you know what

final ravine
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poindexter

rugged ginkgo
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threats?

knotty hearth
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He's on a lenghty time out now

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Anyhow, please remain civil as you go forward from here on out.

rugged ginkgo
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glad you felt the need to come back and brag about you muting him

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good job moderator!

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refrain from talking about topics other than armor

knotty hearth
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You're welcome, have a good night!

rugged ginkgo
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pointdexter really got to him 💀

sonic zodiac
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The support class is #1 at getting shot and not much else. Glad they at least have armor.

still hound
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My experience with armor and dmrs.

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(I haven’t touched dmrs after this event occurred)

high olive
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yeah that's kinda like, wtf?

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I think that's more DMR's being poorly balanced than it is the armor

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people have been saying they suck forever now

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it's one of the few ones i believe because DMR's usually get shafted in most games

still hound
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I believe I missed couple shots, but make dmrs pierce low lvl armor.

toxic marsh
thick kraken
still hound
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Yeah that too.

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I still believe that armor should not absorb a whole shot but take a percentage of the dmg. To make a hs still more valuable.

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Might not be realistic but from a balance standpoint would make landing the last shot on the head be rewarding and not punish you.

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If this would happen wed need a buff for armor at the same time.

thick kraken
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In bf4 DMRs was 2 HS weapon. Here it even easier to land shots because of bulletspeed that is much faster than in battlefield(even in bf1/5/2042 bullets are slower)

still hound
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Then again if ammo types were to come armor could have a rework at the same time.

high olive
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i still feel like a better way might just be to have it be like PR where it's just damage reduction zones rather than breakable armor but idk i might be biased

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probably wouldn't work maybe due to faster paced nature of game, though, not sure, but it's not like it was anything super extravagant, iirc there was like a model post somewhere in the forums with how the armor zones were laid out and it'd, at most, take like maybe 2-5 shots to drop someone depending on circumstances, heads were generally 1-2 tap depending, and I think the face actually had it's own 'hitbox' so you could also just bypass the helmet that way
i can probably go dig it up to better explain or correct where my stoner ass may have forgotten things

rugged ginkgo
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armor should be a health increase/ flat damage reduction instead of bullet sponges attached to your head

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imo

still hound
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Yeah because it's a one and done right now. Why use one time armor when u can heal with medic?

thick kraken
high olive
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Like, I don't mind it either way

thick kraken
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These kind of "peoples" turned overwatch into boring crap.

still hound
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I have no idea what you just said but ok.

thick kraken
still hound
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Well, the only real problem is that the majority of players don't know how the armor works so the devs could tell us how it works rn. I don’t fully know how the armor works.

thick kraken
# still hound Well, the only real problem is that the majority of players don't know how the a...

It just eat 1-2 shots(in case of support exclusive armor - exo this amount is higher). Helmet protect only head, but not face(except for exo that have facemask).
Exo armor is literally only thing that makes support playable in game without supression system that makes existance of LMGs(ARs with bigger mag but worse TTK, ADS, control) questionable. Without it support is a target for anyone on map. If you run with normal armor and l86 as support it feels like assault with some disease.

still hound
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I think support as a whole might need a rework if they decide to change armor.

dense patrol
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That's fine, the support weapons should probably be buffed anyways.

still hound
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We need a simple armor system but because a class is tied to armor it is a whole lot harder to change anything.

inland oyster
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Id play support if it had no helmet ranger vest

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But it doesnt so Kannakms

still hound
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Well I’ll leave the armor discussion for now.

rugged ginkgo
# thick kraken Also game should be flat field without covers because "its battlebit not modern ...

all I did was share my opinion i never said it had to be implemented the whole reason this channel exists is for feedback and discussion of said feedback and you act like I'm single handedly ruining the game by having a quick playstyle and giving opinions based on that sorry i dont enjoy sitting in a building for 10 minutes or flanking for 30 second just to get 1-3 kills and die to the endless horde of teamates behind them.

rugged ginkgo
dense patrol
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Support being bad is easy enough to fix aside from armor. LMGs don't need to be both lower TTK and lower control and slower ADS. LMGs could have better damage drop off so they can 'suppress' larger rangers, and overall just be less bad.

thick kraken
rugged ginkgo
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Tarkov is a good example of what happens when dev listen to people like YOU

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im not gonna argue anymore with you in a feedback tab so type away

thick kraken
thick kraken
final ravine
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silence

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armour is broken end of discussion

knotty hearth
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Perhaps I'm biased but when I saw someone using armor against me I switched to the armor baring class (support) and have been playing it religiously ever since (unless I want to switch things up).

The armor has trade offs for the protection, such as mobility but the class also has limited primary guns and abilities.

I don't think the armor is broken. It's just one of the things that makes a class desirable, take that away and you essentially destroy a third of the classes purpose.

This isn't a balance issue, this is a playstyle issue IMO.

pulsar lava
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How exactly is it a playstyle issue?

knotty hearth
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Well just to stress this is an opinion what I'm about to say.

But like I said when I saw someone using armor against me (and I was struggling against it) I adapted my playstyle to also use armor.

Now someone might read that and think "It sounds like you were forced to use it to counter something unbalanced." But that wouldn't be true.

Because I no longer struggle against armored players when playing without it.

My issue was I didn't understand all of the tools available to me as well as angles, tracers, sound queues, etc.

The fact of the matter is support players are much slower, have bigger clips but slower reload times, and only have the armor so long as the durability remains (i.e. they don't get shot) but still carry the speed debuffs to my knowledge.

It's like saying Engineer has too much destructive potential, Assault can scale vertically but other classes can't, Medic can self heal and bandage faster, etc.

Just let support have its desirable things because if you begin to aim at stripping it away and nerfing it then all you'll do is make them less unique.

native cosmos
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btw

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sometimes it add too much uncertainty to the gunplay which i think its kinda dumb to deal with

hot carbon
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Ask any ethereal member dropping 100kill games if they're playing support

inner portal
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I can't find a way to search in threads and I'm not gonna scroll through 1000 messages to see if this was suggested already, but I do think at the very least an explanation on how armor works and how much it helps would be great, 50 hours in the game and I only have a vague idea on how helpful it is and how it works.

safe jolt
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I think this is more of a readability issue than armor actually causing problems on its own. Armor choices all look very similar especially at the distances people are fighting

pulsar lava
# knotty hearth Well just to stress this is an opinion what I'm about to say. But like I said w...

But there's nothing to learn from playing support that'll help you kill them. It's not like they've got skill cooldowns or spawn short-sighted lmao.

Their con is slower movement, and slower weapons. That means nothing when it takes you up to 3/4 rounds to the head to kill them (in a perfect world) and it only takes them 1/2 (same matter). Therein lies the issue, they're not outright OP, but they're allowed leverage in a game with unforgivable TTK.

I've said it before, if they REALLY want to keep helmet armour in the game, then they should have it be even across all classes, and provide a small buff to the Support class body armour. Just don't punish people for aiming at the head.

Want to keep the survivability of support players while prone and laying down fire with an LMG? Give them a piece of buildable cover that they can place from the build menu to allow for that. Or add a suppression mechanic to LMGs. There'll be a solution, probably not those, but something better than overtuned helmet armour.

dense patrol
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Another thing helmets could do in lieu of punishing headshots by stopping bullets is reduce aimpunch.

pulsar lava
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Good point, IMO aimpunch needs a slight reduction across the board.

dense patrol
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Another way to solve the headshot punishment problem would be to unify the helmet and body armor pools. Make armor a single choice between light, medium, and heavy, and have that add 12, 25, and 50 HP to total health pools. Keeps the headshot incentive consistent.

I admire the level of complexity this game has but two seperate HP pools for helmet and body promoted perverse incentives to avoid the head and also creates some very inconsistent fights.

inner nexus
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simple solution to having high armor. add different ammo types. for example fmj

hot carbon
feral olive
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this is an extreme approach, but i wonder if the game would play any differently without armor whatsoever. Give everyone a 10-15% increase in health, and remove any kind of armor statistic. It'll make fights more consistent and less frustrating (i think). This doesn't have to be game wide, just a different playlist than the others. this is just wondering what you guys think, not an outright suggestion to the devs. please dont come for me if you disagree lol

hot carbon
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Snipers become bleed machines on body shot, and gunfights become faster at long range and longer at close range bc limbs now have the extra 20hp from armor

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It'd be interesting but I think with how open maps are we don't need to buff ranged weapons more than a recoil decrease on dmrs

knotty hearth
pulsar lava
knotty hearth
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No problem, no offense was taken. I am one of the few who do utilize that instant build feature. Kind of like placing walls in Rust or building pseudo bases quickly.

high olive
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honestly kinda feeling like PR's way of doing it is better

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because if you're gonna have it to where people can just ditch armor entirely and just spam Q/E lean to avoid being hit because it fucks with the hitreg in some way

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Kinda cringe

pulsar lava
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There should ideally be some inertia or "dampening" on Q/E spam, where you get slower the more you do it. I would like to see air strafing removed as well but that's just personal preference, I know people like the movement.

native cosmos
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guys

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u cant one shot headshot if u use sniper and hit head armor

hot carbon
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hi

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you have brain damage

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sorry you had to find out this way

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exo armor is the only armor high enough while untouched that can tank a headshot, and even then an m200 heavy barrel is enough to pierce it

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because snipers have a 1.90 headshot damage multiplier

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exo helmet has 37 hp, heavy has 25, normal has 12
Keep in mind only support can use heavy helmets

gusty notch
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Perhaps if they've equipped a heavy/long barrel

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Then yes

hot carbon
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the lowest damage headshot, a 60 damage base ssg hits for 114 to the head, killing all normal helmets and below, IE literally every other class than support

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the next upgrade up, sv98 with ranger barrel does 131, enough to pop a heavy helmet at full health

gusty notch
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No helmet can survive a sniper

hot carbon
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and finally heavy barrel m200 does 139, enough to pop exo helmet

native cosmos
hot carbon
gusty notch
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If we're talking about the helmet itself?

native cosmos
gusty notch
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Or are we talking about the player

native cosmos
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also pretty sure i hit an engi

hot carbon
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so you missed

native cosmos
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legit armor hit

gusty notch
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Bro

native cosmos
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and that bozo survived it

hot carbon
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yeah, probably the body armor

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not head

native cosmos
gusty notch
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SSG does 60dmg

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Headshot mult makes that 114

native cosmos
hot carbon
gusty notch
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Helmet is 25health

hot carbon
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they can only equip normal helmet

native cosmos
gusty notch
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They literally survive

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125>114

hot carbon
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Do you guys even read what I send

native cosmos
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ssg headshot does 114 damage

hot carbon
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helmets are 12 hp

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not 25???

gusty notch
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They 25 brother

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Some of them are 12

native cosmos
hot carbon
native cosmos
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12 is legit the minimum

gusty notch
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Get another helmet

hot carbon
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go on

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find a helmet that has more than 12

gusty notch
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Ok

hot carbon
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there's none here

native cosmos
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sure

gusty notch
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What class u on

hot carbon
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and if you pull out a heavy helmet, the support exclusive then you lose this conversation bc I already said the exception is support players

native cosmos
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the guy i shot is either engi or assult

hot carbon
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exo armor is the only armor high enough while untouched that can tank a headshot, and even then an m200 heavy barrel is enough to pierce it
because snipers have a 1.90 headshot damage multiplier
exo helmet has 37 hp, heavy has 25, normal has 12
Keep in mind only support can use heavy helmets

gusty notch
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No support players

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Literally a medic

hot carbon
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THEN THE ONLY HELMET THEY CAN USE IS THE 12 HP ONE

native cosmos
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medic got weak defense

hot carbon
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ITS SUPPORT ONLY

gusty notch
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Oh shit yeah

hot carbon
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ONLY THE SUPPORT CLASS

gusty notch
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Lmao

hot carbon
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CAN USE THE HEAVY HELMET

native cosmos
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i mean helmets higher than 12hp

hot carbon
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OH MY GOD JUST FUCKING LOOK

native cosmos
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...

hot carbon
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FIND A FUCKING HELMET WITH MORE THAN 12 HP

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GO

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IN THE CHARACTER MENU

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DO IT

native cosmos
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...

gusty notch
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@native cosmos he right

native cosmos
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then how did that engi survive?

hot carbon
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BECAUSAE YOU MISSED

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YOU HIT HIS CHEST

native cosmos
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encountered 4 times in a match already

hot carbon
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YOU HIT THE ARMOR

native cosmos
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THATS A HEADSHOT HITMARKER

gusty notch
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Get in game rn we gonna test this shit

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Only 1 way to find out

native cosmos
native cosmos
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ill play later and send clips

gloomy schooner
hot carbon
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Oh my god we've already been over this this whole thread sucks

native cosmos
gloomy schooner
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but m200+long barrel can 1 shot all helmet

gusty notch
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Join the community server

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or don't

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Join 186-LC-06

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I'm right here

hot carbon
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I'm in -05

gusty notch
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I'll join when its not full

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OK I'm in

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What team u on

hot carbon
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ruskis

gusty notch
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Im US

hot carbon
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meet me top left island

gusty notch
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U be sniper

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Wait what server u on?

hot carbon
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186-LC-05

gusty notch
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Ur left is my right I think

hot carbon
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diff map

gusty notch
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huh

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What region

hot carbon
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america

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186 L8-05

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not lc

gusty notch
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ohhhhh

hot carbon
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yea that's the one

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I'll be recon

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I'll be here top left of b

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I'll be here top left of b

image.png
gusty notch
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lol I gotta switch sides then

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That blue guy is me

hot carbon
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ah

gusty notch
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yup

hot carbon
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armor sfx, and kill

gusty notch
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that was with 12hp helmet, I didn't take any damage making my way over

hot carbon
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if you want to try heavy armor on support go for it

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front of head will kill, back of head won't

gusty notch
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sure

hot carbon
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gonna grab a sniper that does just enough to kill heavy helmet

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don't have one for m2k

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same spot

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so again

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base sniper can go through normal

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upgraded ones can go through heavy/exo but need kinda high damage

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I don't have the sniper you need to kill exo tho

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bc it's rank 100 and a couple of kills

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@native cosmos there's your proof

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also damage goes up at range

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so it's not like you have damage drop off to say that's why it didn't kill

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you just hit armor

gusty notch
jolly badge
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i dont have an issue with armor but personally i believe a 308 shouldn't be completely ignored lmfao

rugged ginkgo
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ground infantry combat the armor isn't too annoying but the ssg and other snipers not 1 tap headshotting a exo helmet is crazy and a turn off to the recon class instantly in my opinion, you start with a sniper that literally can't 1 tap supports and everyone just says "m200 can kill exo" why should i have to level up to level 100 which takes soo much time just to get a sniper that's reliable against support players? and dont say the armor is what makes support support because if i need ammo mid life and a support player doesn't drop me ammo im fucked waiting for a supply drop that serves as a free nade kill for any enemy.

thick kraken
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You just bad, stop complaining.

real night
raven dome
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I actually want more variety for instance I love running exo armor on support and would actually want heavier armor. I understand there will have to be a tradeoff but still.

chilly fern
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Wait... Armour isn't just for cosmetics? Well that's stupid, doesn't that just mean longer term players will always outmatch new players regardless of skill?

inland oyster
chilly fern
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Honestly unlocking additional attachments should be more than enough to give higher ranked players an edge, but armour that literally increases your stats? That doesn't seem fair when there's no matchmaking.

inland oyster
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the only armor worth unlocking is ranger medic

chilly fern
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Armour should just be cosmetic, then you can wear anything you want

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Makes balancing much easier too, adding more variables to balance around just seems like a poorly thought out idea

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On paper it sounds great as it adds depth, but without matchmaking and proper balance, then you're giving some players an unfair advantage over others

inland oyster
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you get 2 extra mags

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gg

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unplayable

chilly fern
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So every single piece of armour, regardless of combination, you can only get 2 extra mags?

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Guess my point is moot then /s

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Can scroll up like 8 or so messages to find someone talking about armour that adds damage resistance, which is exactly what I'm talking about

inland oyster
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All the armors except medic ranger are unlocked by default

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And medic ranger is 12 armor +6 mags

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Iirc default medic is normal at 25 armor +4 mags

chilly fern
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I've got like ~10 pieces of armour unlocked across all classes

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maybe 2-3 max per class is unlocked

inland oyster
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Armor types

chilly fern
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The armour pieces that I have locked, add additional stats

inland oyster
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Wack

chilly fern
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am I not being clear or are you trolling?

inland oyster
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I dont remember

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I only ever cared about ranger

chilly fern
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-.-

inland oyster
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This is one of the moments of all time

chilly fern
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Just to make sure I'm being completely clear, the stat I'm referring to is 'Durability'

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Remove that stat and the issue goes away

inland oyster
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Ngl

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No one good cares about durability

chilly fern
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So no one good cares about min/maxing... okay

knotty hearth
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I still feel like armor is a non issue. I still think it's playstyle based. For example you're not going to have an extremely high kill count but you'll have a pretty good k/d. You survive more but you are slower, you have limited main guns, etc.

inner portal
# chilly fern So no one good cares about min/maxing... okay

there are 3 tiers of armor, light, medium, heavy, each class generally has 1 of each unlocked at the start with some specialized pieces unlocked a bit later, the heavy armors give you more consumables, ammo and armor, the lighter ones just make you run faster, and only like 5% faster at most, every class defaults to the heaviest armor that class can use and the only stat spreads that are locked are side-grades to existing armor pieces, but the majority are just cosmetic changes to existing stat lines.

zinc hemlock
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im 10 hours in and had no idea this was a thing

pulsar lava
# knotty hearth I still feel like armor is a non issue. I still think it's playstyle based. For ...

No screenshot, so you'll just have to take my word for it, but I ran a 40-2 game that I entered late yesterday running EXO and M249. Bear in mind there were maybe 2/3 revives involved max so my armour was gone about 10 kills in. Point being, support is still incredibly good when used well and mobility is not an issue whatsoever. The armour is just the cherry on top, you don't NEED it, but it's frustrating for the people who you kill because of it. It's just a bit cheese, a get out of jail free card if you will.

knotty hearth
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But every class has their cheese, and I don't think that is a problem. Also I should clarify that I've done similar scores but when I refer to high kill count I usually mean anything 70+.

I think support is fine, you stay back (at least I do) and give covering fire and mow down people who are in extremely exposed spots. You can't really out trade other guns at long range or short range, unless they know where you are.

And as bad as people want a sniper to one shot kill everyone in the game with a headshot, it can also be extremely unfun being one tapped across the map (and I'm sure everyone has experienced it). Props to the sniper player doing it, but having some extra protection is nice.

Also, even though the speed difference is being shown as small in percentage -- the actual speed difference in play whilst in-game is monumental. I am VASTLY slower than everyone else and usually play catch up with my team or friends when playing with a group. It does make positioning harder.

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If the argument is snipers should one shot kill everyone to the head, then I say that will make for an oppressive class overtime. Should skill, distance, and a well placed shot reward a kill? 100% Should there be no counter to it? No.

If the argument is you're losing duels or trades to support players, then maybe you shouldn't be running-and-gunning 24/7 expecting to shred every player who you come across. Most of the time, from my own experience and what I've seen, support play like sniper players. They find a good position and usually 'set up' and just cover their team as best they can.

People easily counter me by pin pointing where I'm at and just rushing me safely. But I can counter them by repositioning.

Especially when running an LMG, my reload is significantly longer and has got me killed, my ADS is much slower meaning it's better to hipfire which isn't always the best, etc.

There are obvious drawbacks to the class. If the idea is to dismiss them or ignore them for the sake of "Well, I can compensate for the weaknesses." then I can't really agree with it. A good player can be successful in any role, and I think it's been proven by many, many players armor does not make a player artificially better.

pulsar lava
knotty hearth
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Uh, alright? 🤣 I understood that part.

inland oyster
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Armor is useless after the first gunfight per life

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Especially so when youre doing 30kd or whatever

hot carbon
rugged ginkgo
# inland oyster Armor is useless after the first gunfight per life

i mean in reality you dont get your helmet popped in every gunfight so this just isnt true respecfully, i tried support last night and drop 75 kills with a stock m249 and exo armor its the most handfed way to play the game you can sit still and farm kills until you get blown up or flanked and you just respawn and do it again and each time you spawn you get a bullet sponge on your head lmfao. thought i should give the class a try instead of constantly hating on it and yeah feels just like how i thought it would, and quickness is nice but if you as a support with a m249 cant mow down a medic cause they are jump running you just cant aim well.

hot carbon
rugged ginkgo
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LMGs dont feel nearly as bad as people make them out to be in my opinion they actually really good

inland oyster
hot carbon
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It's one free fight per life

rugged ginkgo
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right that easy to say cause we can headshot easy but most people cant

inland oyster
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Sir half my kills on support is breaking body then breaking head because brrrr

rugged ginkgo
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wdym?

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like just cause u killed a bad support player doesnt mean supp is balanced

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support will naturally attract bad players

inland oyster
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Didnt say they were bad

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Saying i fucked my recoil

rugged ginkgo
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they have to be if your shooting armor head and then kill them and they didnt kill you first

inland oyster
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Backstabs dandebourine

feral olive
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"If the argument is snipers should one shot kill everyone to the head, then I say that will make for an oppressive class overtime. Should skill, distance, and a well placed shot reward a kill? 100% Should there be no counter to it? No."

rugged ginkgo
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well yeah you can do that to anyone thats kinda lame if the main way of killing a support is a 1 min flank to his building that has 4 medics in it and a rally point

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if a good player is playing support you can also just wipe people and drop dum kills

inland oyster
feral olive
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if I land a hit on a supports head, they have a get out jail free card, and can tell everyone to leave as well

rugged ginkgo
# inland oyster Get more on medic

i do lmfao i just dont like armor and losing gunfights to it so i talked abt it in discord, i think losing a gunfight to armor is a bad first impression

#

feels like your getting scammed outta a free kill

rugged ginkgo
#

ig you just dont shoot supports until level 100 and heavy barrel m200

gloomy schooner
#

why not?i use L96 all the time and i have no doubt to shoot their head

merry zodiac
knotty hearth
#

So just a quick question. I played recon today just to see how UNGODLY this DREADFUL SUPPORT armor is to face off against... Uh? I was shooting supports in the head that had the exo helms on in the face and instagibbing them no problem.

#

Am I missing something or is the argument purely about the helmet?

gloomy schooner
knotty hearth
#

Multiple supports in multiple instances were all low HP?

real night
real night
hot carbon
merry zodiac
#

"Oh no, I cant one shot everyone from every range with most people being completely incapable of returning fire, oh no!"

feral olive
merry zodiac
#

Sure, sure, but guess what, thats not the only situation they're used in and balancing them around making sure the 90% can do what the 10% can will make the game completely imbalanced, not to mention when they're used to siege points.

feral olive
#

have you played any of the battlefield games before? and if you did, did you feel as though the snipers/one shot headshot mechanic was oppresive in any of those games?

merry zodiac
#

You're already almost entirely away from risk and danger when you're sniping people at those distances, making it so that you can kill people at your leisure without any counter is rediculous.

feral olive
#

99

#

oops

#

misclick

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99% of the playerbase are not hitting headshots with sniper rifles consistently, as soon as you miss a shot the enemy scatters and actively searches for you, on top of this bullet tracers in this game (especially for sniper rifles) are extremely visible and hard to miss, so they already know the position youre firing from, giving them a chance to reposition into cover respective of your sight. being away from danger is the point of snipers, however what balances them is the travel time, the only time it will be literally impossible to know where someone is, is when theyre shooting from super long ranges, which at that point, give them the kill.

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but thanks to scope glint, even super long range snipers are at a disadvantage cause theyd have to use medium scopes to get rid of that. making hitting shots at range even more difficult

#

again i need to ask, do you feel like snipers were oppressive in the battlefield series? cause if not whats the issue here

merry zodiac
#

We arent talking about the battlefield series. This game has very different map and gameplay layouts due to how this game cant decide if its a milsim or a battlefield clone. Giving snipers more potential for uncounterable gameplay will only lead to more situations where a sniper can pick anyone they want off from any range with no counterplay. You're trying to make the argument that you should be allowed to treat the game as a point and click adventure for every single player rather than only being able to do it for 95%. Get good and learn to pick your targets. If you dont want people to scatter before you get a kill, dont aim for people with helmets if they arent in combat. As is, you're just asking to not have to actually work for your kills unlike every other player beyond just being able to judge how high above a target you need to aim.

feral olive
#

"get good" ah yes the batsignal for any mediocre player out there. I communicate with my squad, and when theres a squad i want to take down we coordinate and take them down together. However when the off chance that theres a support with an exo helm sitting there, behind cover, revving a squadmate, that should be a free kill. no we arent talking about the battlefield series, however this game draws quite a few similarities. There are quite a few posts talking about the fast movement speed in this game which is very battlefield, and I dont know if youve tried to hit shots on a moving player, its hard, lmao. it sounds like you just dont play sniper, which is fine, but in that case you need to get out of the conversation. this post isnt talking about buff snipers anyway, its about the inconsistencies of armor. Yes the helmet is consistent fine, but again, if players are standing still when they know theres a sniper they should be punished, not get a get out of jail free card. "youre just asking to work for your kills" youre telling me that a support has to work for their kills when they get one free kill a life with the armor they have? again, it just sounds like you dont play snipers

merry zodiac
#

Ive played snipers. Frankly dude its piss easy to get kills on them, and its almost never with risk.

#

Support needs to get in the fray to get kills, just like every other respectable class, so to balance out their slower speed, the exo helm lets them eat a single sniper round to the head, at which point you're losing your next engagement against anyone who has theirs.

jolly badge
merry zodiac
#

It should be a % reduction rather than nullification so that high single instances of damage do the same thing either way, but repeated lower instances can actually punch through and deal some damage so that hitting an armored head doesnt make those shots useless

feral olive
#

even a vignette would be appreciated like the battlefield 4 suppression effect

merry zodiac
#

I mean the game needs a suppression effect either way

jolly badge
feral olive
jolly badge
#

its literally better to shoot someone's arms than the head or torso simply because of damage consistency

merry zodiac
#

An lmg being unable to supress enemies hampers a big part of what makes it useful, and leaves it feeling more or less like a big magazined m4 with worse recoil, handling, and control

jolly badge
merry zodiac
#

Eugh, havent gotten it yet but im not looking forward to it

#

Ill stick to my m249 thanks

jolly badge
merry zodiac
#

Doesnt sound too bad actually

#

For holding a position at least and picking targets

jolly badge
#

also the drum mag has 60 rounds but uses a 100 round drum model?

#

ok

knotty hearth
#

After playing recon last night for a few hours I completely stand behind the idea that armor is fine and not problematic.

jolly badge
#

its not a sniper issue tbh

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more or less it makes guns like the M4 less valuable than the AK15

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Or the UMP over the MP7

knotty hearth
#

I've played other classes and after putting more time into the game the armor is not an issue I'd be up to debate in terms of balance. I don't see an issue with it.

jolly badge
#

i have had a few times where armor just is stupid

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(seemingly more prevalent on guns like the M4)

knotty hearth
#

Eh. I'm more concerned with things like hit registration or the fact people can prefire you around a corner before you see them like in Planetside 2 rather than an issue which can be countered by just changing the way you play. Armor is not that game changing.

jolly badge
#

we both had armor

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he was obv low considering that i was able to hit 1 more shot and it instantly killed him

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but like

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this happens too often

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overall i think armor is okay as an idea but the fact that it eats multiple shots from some guns is something else

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personally i think armor is better when its like a damage reduction by a certain %

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it seems every game that has some sort of complete damage reduction armor has balancing issues

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TLDR armor makes a lot of guns bad

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either make guns do more armor damage or reduce armor health

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(or do the damage reduction system which just simply works lol, but i doubt they will implement that)

gusty notch
#

Playing as a sniper is incredibly easy compared to playing as any other class

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But I do think that the current armor system is pretty stupid, especially with some of the complaints voiced in this thread about how armor eats damage so much and how its more viable to just aim for arms/legs (which is fully true)

#

Sometimes it can actually be a negative to aim for the head

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Especially if you can't follow it up with another headshot

knotty hearth
#

Just played a medic with an SMG and just shred people in armor, and move lighting quick allowing me to make insane plays. But yeah the mobilty of support is a non-issue. 🤣

feral olive
chilly fern
#

Also had it done to me

gusty notch
#

I won't deny your own experiences, but that has literally never happened to me

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I just sit and shoot

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The only people I have to worry about are other snipers

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When I'm not a sniper, I find myself having to always be moving and evasive because if you sit still a sniper will get you

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If I'm also trying to deal with the other team's non-snipers at the same time

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I find sniping a loooot easier than that

high olive
#

which would also allow armor to actually be drip rather than breaking every engagement

lilac vapor
#

Balance armor based on light or heavy the only downfall being mobility or more ammo carried

cedar nebula
rugged ginkgo
# knotty hearth Just played a medic with an SMG and just shred people in armor, and move lightin...

make what crazy plays? in a game like this you cant just run in the open spamming jump and expect to not die everytime i only play medic and the most you can do is jump back n fourth in front of a shitcan who cant aim i dont get what you mean by "crazy speed plays" its easy to hit medics full speed, and it takes half of my clip to kill 1 armored person half of the time forcing me to only get 1-2 more kills n reload when if i had a LMG id kill everyone in front of me with their backs turned.

pulsar lava
rugged ginkgo
#

no one is peak jump running corners and hitting 5 headshots back to back and jumping away and if they are its a small minority of players

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the speed is 100x more noticable on your own screen and own movement to other people your just as easy to hit 50% of the time

knotty hearth
rugged ginkgo
#

clips?

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cause i bet you have none of a "crazy speed flank" on medic getting more than 3 kills

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and if you do ill shutup

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love how everyone is a pro player in disscussion i dont get it lmfao

knotty hearth
#

skill issue

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damn i owned you back with my own emojis

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here's a clip

rugged ginkgo
#

you wouldnt know anything abt ROTMG kid

ruby blade
knotty hearth
#

I do though. I know everything about ROTMG, but demanding me to show you clips and putting words in my mouth about how I'm a pro player in a discussion is just cringe. Whether you choose to believe it or not is on you ultimately. I legitimately could not give a fuck. 🤣

rugged ginkgo
#

says the guy whos argument was "skill issue" 💀 i asked for clips because you said word for word "Just played a medic with an SMG and just shred people in armor, and move lighting quick allowing me to make insane plays" but you dont have proof of said "plays" this is abt discussing armor and why its unhealthy for the game and you have no proof backing your claims since when is asking for proof cringe?

#

and if you couldnt give a fuck then why type in this thread and respond to me in the first place?

knotty hearth
#

you should go outside

knotty hearth
runic meteor
#

what if they added a plates bar for armor

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and support carried plate refills

shy solstice
#

if you had a way to get armor back I think it'd be more valuable

woven thunder
#

that's the point. They have better armor compared to you. You are "out-armored" why not "out-gun" them instead. Flank them and don't engage with them head on.

pulsar lava
sweet rain
pulsar lava
#

But you don't SPECIFICALLY flank a support player, you flank for kills no matter who it is you're flanking. Often times you don't even know who/what you're flanking or how many there are. My point is the game moves too quickly to make such tactical decisions, at the very least not often enough to be considered common occurrence. You MAY consider flanking or countering a sniper/group of snipers, but in CQB there's too much chaos to work off such mindset.

toxic marsh
#

God dude I fucking hate seeing a support as a sniper. I could dome those fuckers from halfway across the universe and all I'd hear is a dink

timid pike
#

I understand your frustration, but wouldn't sniping from a hyperbolically long distance in fact decrease the damage your sniper does?

hot carbon
#

Barrel stuffing a support catches them offguard

feral olive
fresh otter
feral olive
knotty hearth
#

@rugged ginkgo Hey you're a loser btw.

fresh otter
knotty hearth
pulsar lava
#

Are you okay

knotty hearth
#

But you don't SPECIFICALLY flank a support player, you flank for kills no matter who it is you're flanking. Often times you don't even know who/what you're flanking or how many there are. My point is the game moves too quickly to make such tactical decisions, at the very least not often enough to be considered common occurrence. You MAY consider flanking or countering a sniper/group of snipers, but in CQB there's too much chaos to work off such mindset.

sweet rain
#

Top concern really needs to be… not doing that

fresh otter
#

Regardless of that he still took a well 2 hits to his unarmored back of the head

#

Unless hit reg says "uhmmmm... Actually"

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The sheer fact I went through an entire mags worth of bullets for that is a meme, since surprisingly targets move when they shoot and change position

hot carbon
#

Just aim for body, head doesn't do enough on this game

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Unless ur like sniping

knotty hearth
#

Be careful Diego.

#

They'll ask for clips now and imply you are pro leet strat gamer.

high olive
#

Honestly helmets break so easily i can't relate to any complaints about them but I also don't play recon so

hot carbon
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They're like 65 hp max w/out headshot multiplier so I get it

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But then you still need something to make prone machineguns somewhat viable for hardcore

high olive
#

i still kinda think PRBF2's armor system might fit better where instead of just like
breakable armor
it's just zones on the player model where it does slightly less damage

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and it might be easier to balance weapons around

hot carbon
#

It could be a % damage decrease

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But that might keep the same issue

high olive
#

PRBF2's armor system when the hitreg wasn't being garbage was alright

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because i'm also just sick of getting hozed and having my armor break outright it's pointless to have spent money on the patreon for stuff that's just gonna

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break and not be displayed on my model

hot carbon
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Yer

#

I run normal on support anyways

rugged ginkgo
jaunty vapor
#

Hear me out, armour system isnt completly bad .. but maybe dont split head and chest armor .. to give an example, you can hit all your shots with the ump at 50m or so and start firing first and you will still lose 1v1 if the enemy knows how to aim even after dumping the full clip into him, atleast thats what i see with smg's.. everyone who says there isnt a problem probably only plays support ..

pseudo trail
#

I didn't get a chance to clip it, but I put 12 shots into a support with an AK74. Full mag to 18 rounds. All hits...
I've had no connection issues. And this was at like 30m...

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Idgaf about armor, hit-reg, or damage dropoff changes specifically. But something needs to change, that shit should not happen.

pseudo trail
#

There's no visual hp indication, the only thing I usually notice is a missing helmet. So you're talking about an effective hp pool range of 1-199 on any random target you bump into.
On top of that you might inflict bleed for an even faster kill, who tf knows...

sweet rain
#

Worst case scenario versus full exo armour for an AK74 should be 6 hits, I think?

pseudo trail
#

Like I said, all were hit markers and the ammo was spent so I had to reload. I don't doubt the pessimistic hit reg system or damage dropoff played a factor, but that was my experience.
Bouncing between body and head exo armor feels awful right now and it really puts me off from playing more

#

The game doesn't have low TTK like people say, it's a complete crapshoot. A low health enemy can die in two shots or a freshly spawned support can take the better part of a magazine

high olive
#

i rly think it being DR either % or otherwise would just be better rather than people losing armor instantly and it having absolutely no benefit and still slowing you down even after it breaks

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i don't think it breaking is super bad, i don't have issues gacking ppl with it

#

but it just feels like the balance in this game from weapons, attachments, and otherwise is kinda eh

#

And I think the weapon issues could be easier to balance if the armor wasn't 1 and done for 1 life until you get mag dumped

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plus it's like
i paid for supporter and my armor keeps disappearing pain

hot carbon
#

You're now better up close but vulnerable at range to snipers an dmrs

high olive
#

yeah i just don't think the armor being an added health pool is doing much for the weapons being balanced in such a way where it's like
there's a shit ton just not worth using

hot carbon
#

Indirect buff to últimax, Aug and a ton of other slow weapons

high olive
#

AUG shouldn't have as low a ROF as it does

hot carbon
#

Altho fal and scar are alr insane as is

high olive
#

i don't want it 1 for 1 balanced for realism outside of like, the mode sp;ecifically for that

#

but even BF3/4's weapon stats were closer to what they are irl than BBR's and some weapons are just dogwater for it in BBR, imo

hot carbon
#

Some people like em so

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Still

high olive
#

Not saying they're outright bad, i haven't unlocked a lot of things outside of SCAR because the servers are just too unstable for me now

#

keep hitting ppl with weapons and enough bullets ik i should be breaking their armor or downing them and it's just not happening

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along with the pop ups of like 'lol didn't reg the hit'

#

But there's a lot of weapons you just don't see used and i don't think the armor system in how it's working rn is going to be good for weapon balance in the future

#

that and still being affected by the slowdown and otherwise after it breaks is a bit silly to me

knotty hearth
# fresh otter I'll just leave this here

I mean you were also one hit in the clip, attempting to fight what looks like a full HP / Armored guy.

People also need to understand the game sometimes works like Planetside 2 where on your screen, things are happening before you really see them (i.e. You're prefired around a corner before seeing someone, or someone turns around and shoots at you sooner than you would think, etc.) He basically killed you within a second in the clip.

Most of those starter pistols are pretty bad though. When I run out of main-gun ammo and have just my pistol left, I basically just go suicide if no ammo is available. But I also switched to a Unica.

@rugged ginkgo Do you need some clips from me to backup my comparison, or that pistols on average aren't good? Just checking since last time I expressed any kind of opinion you needed something beyond anecdotal evidence even though 90% of your input in this thread is crying that a sniper doesn't one tap -or- doing the same shit you said to me "u just think ur a pro player. TRASH KID."

rugged ginkgo
knotty hearth
#

Hard to not think about you when you live in this thread and most of it is you crying for changes to suite your inability to adapt, and then try to personally attack people for it by assuming things and demanding proof even though 99% of your contributions aren't ""clips"". But yeah man flip it on it's head. Calling you a loser was the most accurate thing anyone has responded to you with. BBClown

pulsar lava
#

Really not doing yourself any favours @knotty hearth

knotty hearth
#

At least spell favors right.

pulsar lava
#

I'm UK based, fuck my life you just can't help yourself

fresh otter
# knotty hearth I mean you were also one hit in the clip, attempting to fight what looks like a ...

Oh ye, I knew damn well if he'd turn around I'd be dead. It's not really that I was worried about that. It's more so semi-auto pistols, feeling a bit like peashooters, even against light-armored targets. Even before I died, I think I was on maybe 2 rounds in the mag? Emptied at least a good 90% of it on him, which imo seems a bit silly.

And yeye, I feel ya. I unlocked the Unica and it's a world of difference. It actually feels quite nice. But ye, no, it seems specifically the semi-auto starter pistols are kinda ass.

knotty hearth
#

@fresh otter They are, and if you flip the roles of being full hp / fully armored; being dumped by a shitty pistol would of been fairly lame (Even if they had snuck up on you, cause they clearly had good reactions to turn and shoot so quickly.

#

@pulsar lava Sounds like another skill issue.

pulsar lava
knotty hearth
#

I'm not going anywhere.

pulsar lava
#

Sadly not, no

knotty hearth
#

Had some more pro elite gamer strats where I ran medic / smg and shred people in armor, @rugged ginkgo isn't capable of doing this however.

high olive
#

And is the easiest thing to do and do well with franky PepeCringe

#

like this is in no way a good flex so i hope you're baiting

knotty hearth
#

@high olive This isn't a serious discussion like most of these feedback threads, so yeah pretty much. But maybe I'm not?

#

Maybe I'm 100% serious all the time.

high olive
knotty hearth
rugged ginkgo
#

why you keep @ me bro its personal or sum?

knotty hearth
#

You live rent free?

knotty hearth
#

@'s me first, DM's me first; says he is in my head. Neets are fucking weird.

ruby olive
#

I like the armor system for the most part, but want player models and hit effects that are more distinct so I can better interpret the fight before, during and after.

Then again I liked the armor system in Divinity Original Sin 2 and I liked weapons breaking in Breath of the Wild 1 so I think the average gamer may just hate all of this lol. This kind of stuff just punishes linear thinking, but I would agree that a lacking occurs where you don't have enough of a time window to make a new decision or a pre-window of approaching a situation differently.

high olive
#

i think the armor should stay but just work diff because i don't think it's working entirely and i think the game might be better balanced for it idk
the armor system isn't bad atm but the caveats of it are just kinda
EH
Even if you add like, an armor resupply i just can't get 100% behind it, just personal preference rly

hot carbon
#

It rewards bad players

#

Pretty much that simple

#

You die or stand still, you get rewarded

#

You push, lose armor and flank?you're punished w no armor and slow movement

quaint horizon
#

Armor is already incredibly expensive to use, the movement speed difference between armored and unarmored targets is enormous.

Being fast often will result in people missing shots on you as well.

#

The only piece of armor I feel confident is saying is worth the trade off is the exo helement since it prevents you from being 1 tapped by snipers. Everythng else often feels like a downgrade vs being unarmored.

fresh otter
sweet rain
quaint horizon
#

The speed difference is also very major though. And SO often your armor just goes against random shots not even part of a fight that matters.

Sometimes it will win a fight, but a lot of things it absorbs would not have killed you anyway and you just eat being like 30% slower (for exo) than someone without armor. With no way to replenish armor it doesn't feel that high value outside of the exo helmet as mentioned.

sweet rain
#

You loose 17.5% movement speed for exo armour over light armour. Significant, but not that major.

#

And, against rapid fire guns, on average, I believe the armour adds about 77.3% more survival time under fire.

quaint horizon
#

Survival time is hard to generalize as it varries a lot between guns. And then there is the fact that leg shots bypass all armor anyway.

#

I guess I am also including the penalty you have to take from your primary weapon as well with exo, another 5 or 10 percent movement speed.

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And then another 5 forced from your backpack.

sweet rain
toxic marsh
jolly badge
jolly badge
#

just remove the mechanic overall and make a reduction by a precentage
since you clearly cant balance it

quaint horizon
#

so just buff armor then?

jolly badge
#

huh

quaint horizon
#

Turning it into damage reduction means it will block WAY more damage than it does now since it will be constantly healed

jolly badge
#

like

#

1-2 more bullets lol

quaint horizon
#

If it is 10% it is worthless, since you eat massive speed penalties

#

RIght now it IS 1-2 bullet more

#

but it is 1-2 bullets more once

jolly badge
#

uh more like 5 in some cases but ight

quaint horizon
#

In cases of long range SMG shots sure, but like vs a M4? it is +2 shots

jolly badge
quaint horizon
#

Then you missed your shots

jolly badge
#

hitmarkers are misses?

#

Specifically blue ones?

#

lol

quaint horizon
#

EXO armor is +65 hp, an M4 does 30 damage base, it is +2 shots

jolly badge
#

I mean clearly there are other issues to be addressed then

quaint horizon
#

with values of 10% it would never be worth it to cut your speed by like 30%, since at most it is +1 bullet. And often not even that

jolly badge
quaint horizon
#

I mean you are basiclly just removing armor from the game, which I mean is a choice you could make but imo it is a bad one

#

And as it stands only Exo armor offs any significant amount of protection which means you are stuck playing support

jolly badge
#

this game has tarkov like damage zones
its more rewarding to shoot out their arms or legs than torso (or head if using a pistol)

capture_02022023_025423.png
#

The issue is in general is that there is no penalty for getting hit in the armor
no flinch and no damage

quaint horizon
#

There is flinch

jolly badge
#

Not all the time

quaint horizon
#

Depending on what you are hit by

#

Not all guns have the same level of hit punch

jolly badge
quaint horizon
#

I get flinched hard when in Exo sometimes, just depends on what is shooting me

fleet berry
native cosmos
sweet rain
pulsar lava
cloud quest
sweet rain
# pulsar lava Therein lies the problem.

Aiming for heads isn’t generally practical in games or real life, as far as I’m aware. I don’t really see how it’s a problem
When facing armour, you try to get at the less armoured parts, which is pretty basic stuff

pulsar lava
# sweet rain Aiming for heads isn’t generally practical in games or real life, as far as I’m ...

Okay, well let's just strip the "in real life" out of the statement first, huh? In real life, oftentimes you're not even aiming at an enemy, just where you 'think' they are, so the argument is irrelevant for a game. Especially this game. To the other part of your statement, aiming for heads has been the DEFACTO way to kill someone quicker since the very early days of shooter games. Taking that and spinning it on it's head, making it unreliable and almost a hindrance to aim for someones head in a game with such fast TTKs is a problem.

quaint horizon
#

But aiming heads is not slower even with armor except for SMGs which have terrible headshot multpliers and you shouldn't aim head to begin with

fleet berry
sweet rain
#

I haven’t played games before where aiming for the head is practical, personally

#

It’s usually too small a target to make sense

#

In this game it isn’t, it’s just armour works as a local HP boost

hot carbon
#

Sometimes I run exo helmet and normal armor to fuck with players that sneak up on me for like pistol kills

#

They never get the kill

rugged ginkgo
heavy remnant
#

The problem:
-Current armor system punishes teamwork and encourages constant respawns to reset instead of team based resets.

Why should a player take the time to get ammo from supports and healing from medics if they cannot get their armor back and will thus lose their next gunfight to a heavily armored player (like a support)

The solution:
-You can keep the armor customization system, but change it such that instead of a more durable helmet tanking more bullets, just have it add more health to the player instead

This way, a player can fully reset after a gunfight provided they have proper teamwork. That is, after all, what this game is about right? Play as a squad with different classes and teamwork to achieve the fullest potential?

quaint horizon
#

I disagree with putting "armor refreshes" into medic healing. It being seperate is a good thing. If you want to add in armor refreshes Support boxes make more sense.

heavy remnant
quaint horizon
#

I mean this is an increase of power for boxes so that directly gets address. But I don't want battlefields unlimited auto regen from boxes, I do not like those mechanics

heavy remnant
#

unlimited, no definitely not, but being able to drop support boxes or medic boxes and have it heal/resupply nearby players is fine

the whole "i must disable myself for the entirety of the game" mentality of the current medic healing mechanic is not fun for anyone

quaint horizon
#

I like that healing/resupplying takes someone off the firing line. It creates gaps for pushes. Personally though I'd rather the standard be medics dropping boxes rather than sprinting around healing teammates with right click. That puts less time burdon on the medic and make the person who wants to heal invest the time to heal rather than the medic.

Doubt that will change though, people seem like to like the point farming mechanics of medic.

heavy remnant
#

you'll still point farm if you just drop a box for healing and run

healing as a whole creates a gap for pushing itself, no need to disable a player

old bf4 for example had the same 'time to heal to 100%', but you could still keep your gun up while healing. You're still at a disadvantage in that gunfight from being low, but atleast your death is interactive. No one likes situations where they just have to tell themselves "I literally couldn't fight back there"

quaint horizon
#

I mean it creates a choice, I can heal or I can continue to hold an angle. It makes pushing against defenders easier as attrition is a bigger mechanic. Personally I like that design, though I get the other side of not wanting to have to remove agency. This is also why I don't mind the longer reload times, even though I get people who do.

heavy remnant
#

well that is true but that is why you see so many people complaining about having 200 medics on their team and not getting healing. it's too much of a risk to go for heal right now

#

as a medic it takes too long for me to bandage myself, reload, heal myself, combine magazines. so there's no chance i am going to go for heals on everyone else

#

imo everyone's out for themselves for that reason and so you don't see medics healing and you don't see supports giving ammo

making it drop boxes removes any friction for just dropping a box somewhere for your team to resupply which make it so that you see more ammo and medic boxes around

engineers and recon are the real losers here in that sense. (not like in a personal way I mean the interaction of resetting), since not only do they not get healing but they also don't get ammo. It's just lose lose for them lol

quaint horizon
#

I mean supports are already 100% based on drop box mechanics, Medic CAN drop boxes, but they are mechanicly discouraged from doing so and it feels like an afterthought

heavy remnant
#

yes but you're discouraged from dropping ammo boxes until YOU personally need ammo because you're limited to what is it like 2 boxes per life?

it's actually really good for medics to drop boxes since if you do that you can heal while reloading, but again because you're limited to 2 boxes you are discouraged from doing so

quaint horizon
#

You get 3 boxes per life, the main reason supports don't tend to drop often is people just don't use them ussally so there is little point. So you drop them for yourself becasue at least that way they are not wasted and ignored.

#

There likely needs to be visibility improvements to deployed boxes so that people realize they are there for use

heavy remnant
#

i think it's actually dependent on armor. for me it's 2 boxes because I run light armor, but either way it's sort of irrelevant

i am not sure if that's the only reason people don't drop them because i've literally sat in front of supports begging for ammo and they just don't drop

quaint horizon
#

boxes are backpack defined iirc

heavy remnant
#

yes

#

it's unfortunate how quickly this game got so big, there's still lots of problems like this with the game and you can't really reach the devs anymore

cloud quest
heavy remnant
cloud quest
heavy remnant
#

you didn’t hear what i said ¯_(ツ)_/¯

cloud quest
#

Vek proposed could work but I against the idea of more hp or damage reduction

#

With vek at least people have more reason to play any class other than medic

#

More hp is just bad idea

heavy remnant
#

i do actually agree that hp instead of armor will lead to more people playing medic

from my personal experience that’s not such a bad thing though

a big issue with old battlefield which this game is based on is that balancing different gamemodes was really hard. small team/small map gamemodes and large team/large map gamemodes had completely different balancing needs

on large scale maps even with a health based system there is still much value in engineer/recon/support because of vehicles/large open areas/more attrition based combat, respectively

smaller map/teams will see more medics. hence the discussion vek and i had about the current health/ammo box system

with a better ammo/health box system i don’t see a problem with more people playing medic on small maps/teams, as you’d still be incentivized to play support/eng/recon

quaint horizon
#

I actually see support much better on smaller maps right now due to them being less affected by thier worse mobility. On big maps being slow is way more punishing

cloud quest
#

I doubt that good though. In conquest Isle nearly 2/3 of my team is medic. That a big map with vehicle yet too many medic rushing already.

#

A part of it because they have the best mobility without much punishment for low armor or gadgets.

#

They only switch to engineer when they see tank then back to medic

heavy remnant
# cloud quest I doubt that good though. In conquest Isle nearly 2/3 of my team is medic. That ...

That statement sounded off to me, so as a quick experiment I went in a large scale conquest large on valley server with the full 127x127 and counted classes of those currently playing.

Engineer: 27
Support: 13
Recon: 22
Assault: 18
Medic: 41

While it isn't the map isle you were referencing, it shows that there are more of each class than you'd think, so maybe you just perceive medics to be more prevalent because those are the people that catch your eye when you watch them run away from potentially reviving you? lol

heavy remnant
quaint horizon
#

It is mostly because there tend to be the most medics near the top of the scoreboard due to how easy it is to score on them, so if you just glance at the board you ussally see the most medics

cloud quest
gusty notch
sweet rain
heavy remnant
#

real life =|= low poly arcade shooter lol

rugged ginkgo
# sweet rain Heads are sometimes too hard to hit for it to be possible for it to be worth eve...

Not tryna be disrespectful but it doesn’t make any sense what your saying, aiming for head especially in battle bit where the heads are a lot bigger than most modern day fps is always gonna give you an advantage the “best” of players more than likely have a 50% or higher headshot/kill ratio and that’s why they get soo many kills, also you cannot compare real life adrenaline and combat scenarios to video game aim just two completely different worlds and not a good point for discussion imo, the main reason aiming for head is a problem in battle bit and not worth is the bullet sponge helmets people can wear ttk is faster to shred non armored parts pretty sure could be wrong tho

cloud quest
#

Take ak74 for example. TTK on body none armor is 269ms. TTK on hs with exo helmet is 179ms. Remember that is exo helmet which only support have. You still get better ttk on hs no matter what.

#

Why you guys think aim for body any better than hs.

#

Even on gun that low on headshot multiply. Exo hs still have the same ttk as body shot. And still have way better ttk than exo armor body. And not everyone use support.

sweet rain
#

And that assumes every shot hits the head

#

If there’s any significant deviation, you end up loosing a ton of damage to either missing or hitting the body armour

#

If you’re hitting all your shots with perfect accuracy then aiming for the head is a good idea, I don’t think that can be assumed for most players.

cloud quest
#

Then aiming for the limb even worse than aiming head. They have similar hitbox size. Move like crazy when they moving. And aim for center of mass mean aiming for body armor. You end up best try to aim for head.

#

Please remember the body is also protected by body armor. Exo body give 62 hp while helmet only give 37 hp.

cloud quest
sweet rain
#

Yeah, assuming you don’t count the first

#

But it would be 4 shots to kill to an exo head

#

269ms, same as an unarmoured bodyshot

#

A lot of people aim for limbs apparently, which does make sense in some situations as the hit boxes are very large. Much bigger than the head, basically the lower half of the player is legs

#

On perfect accuracy headshots, worst case scenario against exo helmet is same as an unarmoured body, best case one bullet faster. Best case is rare.

#

Need to be in a situation where you are confident you can hit very precisely for the headshots to be worth it as it’s the smallest part of the player, an accidental bodyshot in this scenario is as bad as a miss

cloud quest
#

1 bullet deals 46.5 damage x 3 = 139.5

#

exo helmet only have 137 hp

#

ak74 normal only deal 31 damage which will take 4 shot to body no armor

sweet rain
cloud quest
sweet rain
#

It doesn’t really make sense that it would but that is an important thing then

#

It would be hard to verify this ingame, where did you find this out from?

cloud quest
#

HS is more risk but more reward if you pull it off

#

people been testing stuff since the beta

sweet rain
#

I’ll need to alter my ttk tester then

cloud quest
#

HS is more risk vs reward in this game. If you cant just better aim for body.

sweet rain
#

A lot of people anecdotally claim limbs are better, so that is up for debate as far as I’m concerned

cloud quest
#

most weapon are x1.5 hs multiplier pistol and smg is 1.2 bolt action sniper is 1.9

sweet rain
#

I am aware of that

#

well, this means exo armour is only actually about 66% more resistant than no armour, rather than 75%

cloud quest
#

btw how are you think that m200 can deal enough damage to 1 HS exo helmet if the multiplier not apply?

sweet rain
cloud quest
sweet rain
#

I use silencer

cloud quest
#

silencer is useless on m200 tbh

sweet rain
#

I like it

cloud quest
#

it design to be long range sniper rifle so at long range you dont need suppressor

sweet rain
#

I don't snipe from long range generally

#

I just like the capability to do so well when I need to

#

velocity makes it a lot easier to hit evasive people at any range

cloud quest
#

yeah but if you not use it long range then L86 better at close range while capable on long range

#

better move speed bolt speed

sweet rain
#

:)

cloud quest
#

also better ads it much better option than m200

sweet rain
#

I haven't even looked at the sniper stats properly so that does make sense

#

buuuutttttt loosing the velocity would not be nice imo

cloud quest
#

you wont lose much tbh

quaint horizon
#

I mean you lose velocity by not using ranger/long/heavy

cloud quest
#

also the reason people using ranger is it give the most damage so it lower the range needed for 1 body shot to around 750m from 850m

#

or 900m

quaint horizon
#

also lets you 1 shot exo helments

muted sequoia
#

I play no armour armour is annoying but it is what it is .

tough wraith
# rugged ginkgo Not tryna be disrespectful but it doesn’t make any sense what your saying, aimin...

even more, it's aim punch. Aiming for the head is much less reliable if you get aim punched, you will likely not recover and lose. It makes it very RNG.

The helmets are horrible as well, though, for headshots, especially Exo.

I think armor would be ok if there were no helmets aside from Exo on support, and aim punch was also removed. It gives fresh spawns a small HP advantage, but would be negated by aiming for the head. Vs Support, however, it's pretty distinct so you can aim for the legs instead of the head. So if the other helmets are removed and there is no aim punch, I think it would be ok for Exo helm to stay

chilly smelt
#

In this game armor is pretty much only good to self nerf an slow you down, MAYBE take a single head shot with out dieing. Also SMG an other pistol calibur rounds pretty much ignoring armor given teh rate of fire.... so ARMOR as it is now is worthless enless you like nerfing your speed.....

sweet rain
#

Armour isn’t that weak, the main drawback to it is that in a meat grinder situation you’re likely to loose it right from the start

#

Rate of fire doesn’t affect the viability of armour whatsoever so I don’t understand what logic you’re using to justify the second part

#

My current estimates for the effective HP boosts of armour for light, medium, heavy and exo are currently 7%, 26%, 46% and 65%

hot yarrow
#

I believe the game should add armor piercing rounds

cloud quest
#

tbh armor is fine the way it is now. Only minor buff that I want is ability to repair armor for Support.

rare pumice
#

In concept:
[] assault should gain access to variants of armor exclusive to it that give up ammo for reduced penalties
[] assault should gain two varieties of armor repair kits, support should get the lighter variation as a stopgap so he can't fix his exo helmet in a loop
[] engineer should be able to blowtorch armor back up
[] armor damage should be used again, it looks like potentially the game is just running with all normal damage which is... dumb.

I still think armor should work in increments of 25 or something tbh

#

potentially also add interplay with weapons and armor damage;
handguns and SMGs have poor armor damage making them acceptable against medium and poor against heavy, etc, while assault rifles have a balance and such

sweet rain
#

I really don’t think engineers would take a gadget just to repair armour, but generally that doesn’t make sense to begin with. I think that bit is unnecessary

#

I think it makes more sense just to incorporate extra armour plates into light and heavy ammo boxes as we already have those for assault and support

sweet rain
#

Armour is strong enough as it is imo, breaking in meat grinder situations is the #1 reason to not use heavier armour

rare pumice
#

Although I 100% support a damage buff to the USP + full clipsize for both MP443 and M9
Gimmie my 18 rounds and 15 rounds

#

Most assault rifles should probably beat medium armor in saaaay... 4 hits, and kill an unarmored target in 3 shots? 35-40 damage. to account for spillover from armor break
Battle rifles should probably just have the same profile but at a longer range, plus maybe shave 1 bullet from armor break. In exchange, reduced recoil from what they have now?

I also still think the headshot multiplier should be minimum 2x if not higher

#

Shots to kill with an M4 against heavy armor is what, 7 right now apparently?
...on second thought maybe 3 hits medium armor 3 hits kill is more sane.

#

other things

[] OTM ammunition makes you more effective at range, and trades armor damage for body damage at range.
[] AP ammunition deals 80% damage through armor and increases vehicle damage by 5x. It doesn't raise the class of vehicles damaged and it also decreases base flesh damage though.
[] Stealth rounds absolutely dumpster your muzzle velocity and reduce bullet travel noises, but will have reduced tracers. Sharpens damage dropoff, not available to bolt actions.

hot carbon
#

We're not getting multiple ammo types bc Oki doesn't want to balance that shit

rare pumice
#

ok thats fair lmao

supple garnet
#

armor should be more impactful to give an engineer a medic like role of repairing player armor and to increase ttk which is far too low atm.

foggy zinc
#

Armor can stay. But give certain guns better armor penetration

For example the scar. It's fucking DOG water. You'd think a 7.62 low mag weapon would have a decent ttk but it's absolute shit. Recoil is off the charts, it's mag size/rpm is God awful. It's armor penetration feels just as bad as other weapons when hitting armor.

There's no reason the slower firing assault weapons shouldn't have a noticeable advantage against armor. Especially with how heavy their recoil is

sweet rain
#

Current estimate is 6th fastest gun against armoured enemies, 11th against unarmoured

#

Mag size is about average all things considered, in terms of how many it’ll kill in a mag

foggy zinc
sweet rain
#

What do you mean by “perfect condition”

foggy zinc
#

In most cases both using and having it used against me. The gun performs horribly

sweet rain
#

Lots of people really like it. I think that’s an opinion thing

foggy zinc
# sweet rain What do you mean by “perfect condition”

In a perfect world in which you can accurately hit dead on without regards to the situation around you nor worry about being shot at.

The gun in most scenarios doesn't have a good ttk. The recoil alone kills its ttk value at literally anything farther than 20m. I'm cruising a smooth 2.3kd trying my best to use and unlock all attachments for most weapons. And the slow firing AR's are the literal most abysmal of all AR's. They perform like dmrs but with less armor penetration. At medium range they SHOULD be able to have a gun fight. But in most scenarios you will outright lose using them. They just have no upside vs using literally anything else

foggy zinc
sweet rain
foggy zinc
sweet rain
foggy zinc
#

And more consistently.

sweet rain
foggy zinc
#

Have a better ammo economy

foggy zinc
sweet rain
#

But they also do not, that’s the tricky bit

#

:)

tough wraith
#

ya scar has good TTK. I don't much like it, prefer the FAL, but if you're gonna complain about scar TTK is not the way to go

sweet rain
foggy zinc
# sweet rain Scar has slightly worse than the M4, AK15 has slightly better, all at base. Not ...

Alright let's lay it out then

Dps isn't just damage numbers. It's dmg and rpm at minimum and if you wanna really be specific you'd get into recoil/ease of use. As being able to hit a follow up shot if it doesn't one tap is very important.

M4 and both aks have substantially more rpm, lower dmg (but not much), lower recoil, the m4 and AK have options to explosively increase base mag size, all 3 guns have a slight amount of armor punch through albeit SLIGHTLY lower than the scar.

The point I'm making is that virtually everything but damage is a downside to choosing the scar. M4 ttk is just as fast while literally improving on everything else. The AK has a slightly higher ttk than m4 while lowering rpm but is still up on everything but damage.

The scar has good ttk versus ONE enemy. two at MAX. If you can accurately hit enemies you can kill double if not triple that count with all 3 base ar's.

Like I said having a good optimal ttk isn't the only thing to look at. The scar SHOULD be able to more consistently punch armor like it was MEANT to. It SHOULD do more armor damage for the trade off of less rpm/less mag size. But as it stands there's almost no point to choosing it if what you're actually trying to do good. Doing good in this game doesn't mean winning a 1v1. It normally means Frontline fighting which this gun even at medium range just does not excel at.

Give low rpm heavy hitters more armor punch. They genuinely need it

cloud quest
#

I have no problem getting kill with scar though. The ttk is good enough. + ability to tap fire for long range and 2 hs kill is strong enough.

#

Recoil is not the problem when you know what to do at what range

#

It just not suit your playstyle

foggy zinc
# cloud quest I have no problem getting kill with scar though. The ttk is good enough. + abili...

Keyword "kill"

As in singular. My point was that this is not a 1v1 game mode. And lowrpm ar's should not have to be treated as dmr's. You SHOULD be able to do just that. Assault.

My playstyle is fine. I adjust according to the situation. The gun is sitting at 500 kills atm. I've unlocked the attachments, used it plenty, and I have the same sentiment about it that I do any other low rpm AR. It's just not good at any type of engagement that isn't a 1v1 that starts in your favor. Weapons shouldn't be forced into one very specific playstyle given how many attachments we have. The scar should be able to have some wiggle room on how you play with it. Right now it actively punishes you for ever having to fight more than 1 to 2 persons at a time.

#

If I only wanted to play medium range and 2 tap head I'd just play a dmr.

cloud quest
#

Fal ak15 also BR not AR

#

Currently Scar is the better dmrs in this game though

#

Able to do what dmrs can and not suck at close range

#

But this thread is about armor

#

The armor system is fine no need to change

foggy zinc
#

The scar we have in the game is based on the fn scar-h which was developed to be an assault weapon that had the stopping power of dmr's while also having the ability to be used without a long range optic

The FN Scar has a DMR style varian known as the scar-ssr. There's also the scar-pr, scar-tpr, etc. They are 2 different weapons.

I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be used at range. I'm saying that's quite literally a rifle meant to punch through armor. And it should act as such. But in practice it just doesn't.

If we're gonna talk weapon classifications then my point stands. BR should absolutely do a lot more armor damage. And if the armor in game is gonna be as strong as it is. There SHOULD be some reward for slowing down and really punching hard.

#

I like the armor system. I like the milsim aspec of choosing more or less armor. But as it stands a good handful of weapons feel very oppressed by the armor system that in all rights they should have no issue with. Armor stay but give some actual counter.

cloud quest
#

Then dmrs should able to hit harder and it still suck here

cloud quest
#

If shooting exo armor then scar need 360ms while m4 need 429ms. That enough of punch through armor to me

#

Btw the scar-ssr literally is mk20 and it in the game

foggy zinc
cloud quest
#

That why ppl cry about how weak dmrs is

#

There multiple thread of asking to buff dmrs

#

Scar is fine

#

It just dmrs is too weak

rare pumice
# foggy zinc Armor can stay. But give certain guns better armor penetration For example the...

Extend their damage profiles to do significant tapfired damage at up to 400 meters. You'll need an extra bullet or two but battle rifles can grant you a little extra range.

I don't super like the idea of speeding up their killtimes
I think they honestly might be better off staying distinct as having a disadvantage in closer quarters with equalized damage with assault rifles.
Reduce first shot recoil a little and improve accuracy, remove access to long barrel and ranger muzzle devices, potentially look into reducing horizontal kick?
Hmm.

#

I wonder if it would be worth handing the battle rifles improved vehicle damage, alongside DMR and SR?
I like the idea of spotting a humvee with careful shot placement and such...

rare pumice
# cloud quest It just dmrs is too weak

I'm starting to think that we need to emphasize sniper rifles as long range support and axe the long range instant kill class entirely.
Bolt actions become more niche tools for effective firing ranges over the 600-1000m+ range bracket, useful for precisely blasting light vehicles or destroying fortifications/special devices. If someone hangs around in the open, they can also pick people off.
Potentially decrease the cone st which scope glint occurrs but increase the scale of it?

I feel like DMRs should kind of take up the place that SRs tend to get pressed into.

#

You can at least harass the DMR guy at like 500 meters if you notice and have a scoped assaultrifle, if you want to risk getting Domed.
I feel like we may want to make assault rifles start their damage drop a little earlier, just to make a little room for DMRs, but...

cloud quest
#

True

#

But I don't like making AR drop begin at 25 just to make room for BR to drop at 100

rare pumice
# cloud quest But I don't like making AR drop begin at 25 just to make room for BR to drop at ...

Aha, no.
Dropoff for assault rifles would in theory begin at 100-150 but be slow enough to let 200 meter engagements take place with tapfire, might take an extra bullet but you can threaten at minimum, 300 meters remains as ineffectual as it is today if not more so (something like 10 damage right now, we might decrease that further?)

Battle rifles can push out to 150-200 meters with full damage, but their higher V/H recoil slows down the rate at which you can tapfire someone down so you won't be able to satanize others
Damage dropoff ends at something like 400 or so meters?

cloud quest
#

Yeah dropoff of br end at 400m but at around 200~250 should be range of dmrs

#

But currently br more effective than dmrs at 200 250 range

rare pumice
sweet rain
# foggy zinc Alright let's lay it out then Dps isn't just damage numbers. It's dmg and rpm...

There it is again. “M4 ttk is just as fast”
It isn’t. Scar kills significantly faster. Scar does also have a faster aimdown time.
And I’m not sure why you keep drawing attention to one enemy specifically. Scar has a potential of about 6.3 kills per mag, which is decent.
Again. Most gunfights on most maps happen at very close ranges. If you have a significant edge there then you’re more likely to do better.
“Armour punch” isn’t a stat and does not exist in this game.

muted sequoia
#

Armour is inconsistent, you shoot a guy in the head with no Armour and Armour hit markers come up like wtf 😒

sweet rain
#

That means you hit their torso

native cosmos
#

Shooting legs kills faster than shooting torso

#

Cuz armor

#

Which... Is not so fun

sweet rain
#

yes, shooting the armoured bits is worse than shooting the unarmoured bits, who knew

rare pumice
#

What!!!
Aiming carefully gets REWARDED?!

wooden quarry
#

Another reminder, remove this nonsense or make it accessable to everyone from lvl 1, losing gunfights to sweatlords with more time is a terrible experience

unreal orbit
#

sweatlords use ranger or light armour tho

rare pumice
#

you have access to most of the basic options
medium and light, some classes have no armor from start

#

anyways the bigger problem is getting satanized by the meta guns

chilly smelt
#

IMO..... the "support" is trash you move so slow that its STUPID easy to get head shots on them or as them. The head armor while yes it will stop a 2-3 hits on average that is over all meaningless VS weapons that spit out 10-15 rounds per second. Its nice to be-able to heal your self now back to full sure, but once you have no head armor its pretty much pointless sense unarmored head is pretty much insta-gib.

I love the LMG but i HAVE To drop the notion that the armor is of any good, an that i should just use heavy... i just wish i could use medium or light armor sence the LMG slow you down soooooo much that you are little more then a slow walking target.

sweet rain
#

About 13.3% more durable than heavy in exchange for 5% lower running speed

#

Of course it’s subjective whether that’s worth it or not, I wouldn’t mind an exo buff. Recent polls show it’s become increasingly unpopular over time

rare pumice
#

I'm starting to wonder how different the game would be if armor was a more dramatic step between each tier

inland oyster
#

its called pre nerf armor

#

and it was fucking aids

quaint horizon
#

now we have post nerf armor which is worthless. Either just remove it completly, let armor be refilled somehow (likely support heavy ammor boxes) or move armor to a damage reduction model so that it always has an effect instead of being an achor around your neck slowing you down doing nothing.

rare pumice
# inland oyster and it was fucking aids

Except it didn't really do much. Generic damage was like 42-45 for rifles so you ended up chewing through heavy armor in like a couple hits.
Iirc it was like 100 armor for heavy and that died in a whopping...

muted sequoia
rare pumice
quaint horizon
#

I mean... you act that armor is a good thing on support

#

the class would be 100% better if it could take off the armor

rare pumice
#

True, full exo set plus machinegun slowdown is uh
It's an experience

quaint horizon
#

I don't think making that armor more useful would be a bad thing, and support makes the most sense to have the resupply imo in terms of kit and role. Or again, just move to a dmage reduction system with no resupply needed. Probably reduce the top end of armor to make it not as strong since it always applies but at least then you are playing at half speed with no benifit most of the time.

#

Or just let support take off the damn armor and be done with it

rare pumice
#

Giving assault a unique way of actually sustaining and engineer something to do with repair tools when you don't have vehicles to content with sounds somewhat better to me

quaint horizon
#

repair tool on people just sounds wrong to me

#

I'd much rather they do something like fixed gun emplacements for engineers to setup with it

inland oyster
rocky cape
#

I think armor is a fantastic mechanic to make the player experience more varied and it should be leaned into, not toned down.

rare pumice
rare pumice
inland oyster
rare pumice
#

anything more than three hits kill in CQB and they cry
then when the game is identical to call of duty and the old playerbase leaves, they say it's not unique and leave too.

rare pumice
inland oyster
#

No armor damage

rare pumice
#

There was.

rare pumice
inland oyster
rare pumice
void bay
#

I think there could be an alternative to 'ranger armor' that gives you more bandages instead of more ammo. So you focus on surviving for longer rather than getting more kills. It should give you 2-4 more than normal. It doesn't make much sense for medic to have it so I think assault and support class should have it. They can also both use ammo boxes which would combo perfectly with this

native cosmos
#

reee

river elm
#

Support and Recon do not have access to any of the USAF customizations options, which you can't see due to drops being turned off right now, but was noticeable while they were on. For reference, I have access to all USAF customization options.

Support could totally have access to all of the USAF items (Helmet, Armor, Belt, & Backpack) since it can already run Normal helm, armor, belt, and backpack.

Recon would have to forgo the USAF helm since it only has access to empty helms, but it can run USAF armor, belt, and backpack with no conflicts in gameplay design decisions.

viral frigate
#

you cant know when your helmet is destroyed i dont like that

cloud quest
#

you can hear your helmet getting shot and because of damage multiplier just assume it will break the helmet

sweet rain
#

not sure about this but I think armour breaking is a lot less noticable with the recent sound update

cloud quest
#

Kinda hard to notice but it still there

native cosmos
#

honk