The level required to unlock weapons should be lower

[slow lily]

that gadgets give lots of variety

[fresh jackal]

But people do have their favorite guns and they want to use them

[slow lily]

already

[civic gale]

they arent guns

[pulsar ore]

Can't try the MP5 for another 20-30 hours

[slow lily]

why do they have to be guns

[civic gale]

the only lethal ones are the c4 and rocket launchers

[pulsar ore]

Can't try the meta Kriss for another 15-20 hours

[civic gale]

the gadgets are unlocked easily

its reasonable

spending 180 hours to unlock the ak5c is not

[fresh jackal]

They give you pretty limited variety and are very situational, you are always using your gun, so it's so much easier to get bored with it

And this doesn't account for balancing

[slow lily]

you can shred with ak15 why yall complaining

[fresh jackal]

It sucks ass grinding 10 levels to get two shit weapons

[civic gale]

Yes all the meta guns are unlocked somewhat early on

[fresh jackal]

Because I don't want to use the same gun for 20 hours straight?

[pulsar ore]

Literally not engaging with the points we're making, okay

[civic gale]

Do you want to spend the rest of your time using the scar

or the vector

the ak15 or m4a1

[slow lily]

use different classes smh

the classes also give gun variety

yk

[pulsar ore]

You're bringing nothing to this discussion, why not bounce out?

[civic gale]

Well what if you dont like the limited guns support has or the slow gameplay of recon

most of the classes share the same guns

other than the 2 i just listed

[fresh jackal]

Woah! The gun variety with classes! Not engineer having access to every gun in the game except snipers and lmgs.

And people have different playstyles

[civic gale]

medic also gets almost every gun

[fresh jackal]

They may not like using lmgs or dmrs

[slow lily]

i just wanted to make the point that there is a lot of variety to this game for both beginners and long time players. making the grind less isnt necessary

[fresh jackal]

They may only like sniping

Too bad!

[civic gale]

But it is necessary

[fresh jackal]

You get the same two snipers for 60+ hours!

[pulsar ore]

Support gets bent with the same 2 guns for like 40 hours

[civic gale]

You have to see the obnoxious grind

[fresh jackal]

And the meta one you get to grind another 30 hours for!

[civic gale]

dozens of hours

[slow lily]

support is going to get more guns

[civic gale]

spread out between weeks

maybe months

[fresh jackal]

I talked about this earlier

The progression is balanced around planned content

[civic gale]

The mp5 is a starter gun for most games but for this one i need to play 100 hours to unlock it

[fresh jackal]

Not content currently in the game

And you obviously won't find that an issue

But I do

And aboutnmy favorite weapons rant

Most people have a favorite weapon

They use that weapon often in every game they play

It kinda sucks ass when you have to play 100 hours playing 1-2 hours a day to unlock it

[civic gale]

mp5 is a fan favorite

100 hours or so

g36c?

even longer

hk416

long

hundered hours

[fresh jackal]

COD sucks in many ways but they've perfected the grind

[civic gale]

The camo grind in cod is good

Thats one

There are tons of guns

Thats two

Its much easier to unlock these guns

Thats three

Attachment grind is also good

The grind in battlefield is much better

[slow lily]

its just a problem for the people who really are not dedicated to the game but still want to have all of the unlocks. for the people who are busy with their lives and dont have a lot of time to play. but thats not most of the people. this thread only has 800 likes out of the the many people in this server. i think that shows the its a small amount of peple compared the the games playerbase that dont enjoy the progression

[civic gale]

bf1 gave you a currency so you could unlock whatever the hell you wanted

bf5 was a leveling system i believe

A much more rewarding one

[fresh jackal]

Or people just didn't see the feedback or didn't put their input

[slow lily]

well if it bothered people that much they would look to say something about it

[fresh jackal]

I see no negative to making the progression faster as there are still plenty of other ways of progression

[civic gale]

But there are more people expressing their dislike for the system than the like

[fresh jackal]

And we don't have nearly enough info to conclude what the playbase thinks

[civic gale]

Has there been one person saying its good

one video saying its fun?

[fresh jackal]

And the majority of players are going to be your casual dads

[civic gale]

one reddit post saying its rewarding

[fresh jackal]

That's a theme across gaming

For this type of game

[civic gale]

one discord messsage saying its reasonable

[slow lily]

thats because the people who are ok with how the progression is dont need to say anything about it. they enjoy it and dont care to look for ways to praise the progresson

[civic gale]

You are assuming they enjoy it

[fresh jackal]

I think it's time we remind everyone of this statement and follow it

We can't

We

[slow lily]

no not all of them but the people that really dislike it they would say something. and that right now is a small majority compared to the player base population

[pulsar ore]

This server is more likely to represent the more hardcore gamer than the 1-2 hour a session a couple times a week casual gamer.

Not to mention the more casual gamer will just silently put the game down and move back to something with a grind that isn't absurd rather than seek out a Discord to give feedback, they're casual, their time is valuable and they're not gonna waste it bitching online when they could be playing Cod or Battlefield

[fresh jackal]

There are 10 prestiges in the game

3 with content

The progression currently soft locks any casual player out of all of them

[civic gale]

This

[fresh jackal]

Why does the part of the game that spices up and alters every single moment, the gun, have to be the thing to grind for if you have hundreds of hours of content for camos and attachments

You want something to grind for

You have it in camos

[slow lily]

the player count doesnt look like people are just putting the game away. maybe the game just doesnt quite fit with what a small amount of the player base find ideal. but the devs cant please everybody

[fresh jackal]

You easily have 40+ unique skins

Thousands of kills per gun

You have something to grind for that isn't gund

Why lock any casual player out of being able to experience what content they bought

[civic gale]

They wont be able to appeal to everyone yes but if they changed a few things it could appeal to a much larger playerbase

the casuals

Like me

like a majority of the players

[fresh jackal]

Because they simply don't have enough time and don't want to grind something that is supposed to be fun

Many people just don't like grinds

[pulsar ore]

I just don't get how anyone can justify needing 100+ hours to unlock a gun in a game where you shoot at people as the primary mode of play.

[fresh jackal]

There is no reason for the gun grind to exist

[slow lily]

why would they make a game for the casual playerbase if the casuals dont play the game that much. dont they want more player count?

[fresh jackal]

It turns players away

Before they reach the end

And it's just unhealthy for the game

[civic gale]

Im not saying make the game all about the casuals

[fresh jackal]

I'm done here

[civic gale]

im saying make it more appealing towards them

the current system is for people who grind all day

and ive just repeated what taaccoo said

https://tenor.com/view/disintegrating-aughhh-gif-24532719

[slow lily]

and less appealing for others. you have to consider that

[fresh jackal]

@civic gale he won't change his opinion and the devs won't see this at all

So just don't bother

[slow lily]

im just throwing my opinion out there. im not trying to proove you guys wrong. im just saying there is many many people who like the progression the way it is but you guys dont even consider that.

[pulsar ore]

Never in my life did I need to invest 40+ hours in to a game to unlock the weapons and have choice and variety in a PVP focused shooting game

We used to get games with no weapon progression systems and people sunk hundreds of hours in to the game

[slow lily]

there is much variety in the game to start out already even if you dont got all the guns.

[pulsar ore]

there's already a perfectly suited grind in the form of attachments and camos, the gun content, should not take 100+ hours to fully unlock, plain and simple. That's my piece, I'm done here.

[slow lily]

there is gadgets specifically for each class you can use that you eather get without leveling or only need a few levels to get. and there is a lot of gadgets to choose from so i wont name them all. not to mention each class gets special gadgets for that specific class. may i also mention that there are classes with different guns? for example support has lmgs and recon has sniper rifles. support can build instantly and squad leader can place rally points, assault has buffs of its own and medic can heal. there is plenty of variety aside from guns so the variety isnt a problem. its just people that dont play the game as much and are not as dedicated to it that still want all the guns like all of the people who put their time into the game that complain about the progression. and let me remind you thats not a huge amount of the playerbase. and if you make the progression less grindy there will be people on the other side that get upset because they like the reward of unlocking a gun after a long grind. so you cant just complain your way along and get the devs to change it. it doesnt always work like that. you have to consider all of the playerbase man.

[fresh jackal]

I fully understand some people may prefer it

However the camo and attachment grind is essentially the same

And we can't say what the majority is

And there isn't really a way to compromise

I'm just saying you have the quite extensive grind for camos and attachments and prestiges, guns don't need to also be included

[slow lily]

i understand your argument and maybe a change would be overall beneficial to the games player count, but i just happen not to think so. maybe after a certain level ln like around level 60 the amount of xp to get to the next level is raised by a lower percent more so like when you get to higher levels is wont take as long as it does now. does that make sense?

[fresh jackal]

The variety in the backbone of an fps should not be so restricted for so long

The level increase is linear

It takes longer per level as you level up

60 to 65 takes a good bit longer than 65 to 70

Sure it's not felt much every 5 levels

[slow lily]

yes but what if when you got to a certain level the amount of xp isnt raised as much as it is now to get to the next level

[fresh jackal]

But if you compare the length of 25-30 to 50-55

You absolutely feel it

[pulsar ore]

We are not asking for a lot, nor do we want something impossible. We want to be able to experience the whole game without putting our entire free time into grinding. Again, there are three solutions

Add more guns between 0-50
or
Decrease the level requirement for some of the higher leveled guns
or
Start having extra XP events like MW2 does.

Quoted from an earlier post from user Reddington. Pretty much sums it up nicely.

[fresh jackal]

Oh it's a suggestion

[slow lily]

yes

[fresh jackal]

I thought you were making a statement mb

[slow lily]

all good

my suggestion would be like. make the xp per level like. curved

ignore shit drawing

but make sense?

[fresh jackal]

I personally don't think you can really compromise much and make the gun grind reasonable or comparable to the competition or that a compromise is really necessary but I think it would help to make the XP for all levels flat and not increase or increase the XP gained for certain actions or add XP for more actions like a spotting players mechanic and XP for destroying claymores and stuff

I'm also not against that suggestion either

[slow lily]

yeah maybe you would prefer it to curve earlier XD

[fresh jackal]

Just something needs to be changed to make it faster and worth it to prestige once you get to level 200 for the casual player

That's really my biggest issue

You have these prestiges with these neat skins

But you have to restart the 200 hour grind you just finished all over

And then add the camos on top

[slow lily]

will the prestige get rid of your camo grind kills?

[fresh jackal]

I don't see many casual players wanting to touch the prestige button at all

I think you keep the games not sure

[slow lily]

idk either but you should keep them XD

[fresh jackal]

But all your guns and attachments do reset at least

[slow lily]

i see

[fresh jackal]

And my biggest problem is the progression speed makes people not want to prestige

I think a system to choose what gun you unlock next could help with this but it still wouldn't be great

[slow lily]

what if the prestige is made optional but if you dont choose to you just stay at level 200 and keep all your guns and attachment

[fresh jackal]

The prestige is optional

It isn't forced

[slow lily]

oh alr

[fresh jackal]

Just few casual players are going to want to prestige because they have to redo that all over again

And maybe they do enjoy the grind

But it does discourage those who don't mind grinding for camos but want to have their choice in their weapon

[slow lily]

hmm

[fresh jackal]

And as I said earlier for those who enjoy the grind there are other things to grind out for completion of everything

Just eh, pretty sure the devs said they aren't changing it

Game is fun and I don't mind grinds but I do like variety and the game doesn't offer that very well imo

And fun things do get boring eventually

Hence the term burnout

[slow lily]

its has variety just not as much variety in guns when you are just starting. but i think it makes up for that in other areas and thats why i think people still play the game

[fresh jackal]

It has a lot of choices but those choices aren't very well balanced

And being steam rolled because you chose to play a bad class also isn't fun

[candid pumice]

Honestly, the people who enjoy the grind are being incredibly selfish and have the mentality of "lol just play the game more" or "skill issue".

[fresh jackal]

Idk what the difference is between the different binoculars

And some of the attachments are red in all ways compared to others

[slow lily]

i think thats a bit harsh.

[fresh jackal]

And just have no point being in the game

[slow lily]

i dont think that

[candid pumice]

It's true though. None of those people have offered an alternative, yet they chime in to tell us how bad we are

[slow lily]

i offered one actually

for the leveling and xp

i suggested and xp curve as you get later in levels

[fresh jackal]

If you have an attachment that only negatively affects your gun when it's stock, then that attachments only use is cosmetic

There is no point stat wise in using it

And there are a few attachments in the game that are like that

[slow lily]

yeah idk what the deal is with that, besides people who want to challange themselves XD

[fresh jackal]

There is a very prevalent meta and that doesn't help at all

XP gain also needs balanced more

[slow lily]

i think there should be certain attachments that are good in some areas and bad in some areas but attachments that are just bad compared to the others. but thats not exactly what this thread is for so we shouldnt talk abt that here

[fresh jackal]

Between the classes

[slow lily]

yes this would help with the progression

they are working on that i believe

[fresh jackal]

XP gain balance between the classes wouldn't really help progression but it means that you don't have to grind revives to level up efficiently

Less repetitive

[fresh jackal]

Some of the early attachments can just be worse than later ones but no attach should be in all ways worse than the stock gun

[slow lily]

it would if you prefer support or classes that dont give you as much xp as lets say the medic class

[slow lily]

exactly

[fresh jackal]

And the completely bad attachments shouldn't be the ones unlocked at 200 kills

[slow lily]

😂 real

[fresh jackal]

The basic muzzle attachment for the ssg and sv-98 is just worse than no muzzle

[slow lily]

there shouldnt be meta attachments just setups that are good with combinations of attachments that could make a setup meta

[slow lily]

💀

[quartz valley]

Some ppl here is kinda having a knee jerk reaction... the progression is terrible yea... just hope the content drop on saturday adds something between the levels

[flint path]

Just have fun guys

[coarse loom]

Man not to be rude or anything but this is adding nothing to the conversation. You ignoring hundreds of messages just to say "have fun" is both irrelevant to the topic and disrespectful to the people who obviously care about this.

[flint path]

I'm trying to bring hope and enjoyment to your game time

[coarse loom]

and it's clearly not working judging by the past reactions you got from people here. Please, if you have nothing to add don't contribute.

[fresh jackal]

It won't, there is nothing after level 145 or so

It will be tacked onto the end

[simple venture]

Adding more content to the progression will not improve the core issues

[languid ether]

Scorpion EVO at 150 and some near-cosmetic character stuff, but that's it.

[civic gale]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-endgame-avengers-gone-ashes-gif-14019029

I swear to god

Do you have ADHD and have a stupidly low attention span?

Because you have just the same thing 10 times already

and the same people have said the same things back

I want you to actually look

[acoustic lodge]

I appreciate you trying to be positive though, its a nice change compared to most of this server

yall dont have to be so rude to him

[coarse loom]

Except him trying to be positive is just him ignoring people's (legitimate) problems with the way things are and going "lalalala just have fun"

He is a nice person, sure but the way he interacts with people in this thread will only lead to frustration

[acoustic lodge]

it is frustrating but you gotta give him some respect for still being positive while people are shitting on him, i might not agree with him but its nice to see people not give in to an arguement so easily

[flint path]

Yeah I do not believe I said anything out of line or rude I'm just trying to make all of you understand that it is just a video game and it's meant to enjoy and have fun in your free time but you games were never made to play 10 hours a day things are meant to take time in a game so you have things to work toward not get everything at one time that is my point I understand everything that all of you are saying but you're looking at it from a different perspective I'm looking at it as it's a video game and it's fun

Good example is last night I played for 3 hours it was 11:00 I'm level 99 halfway through it if I really wanted to grind I could have kept playing but I said screw it I'll play tomorrow

I will admit one thing The only time I abuse the medics XP boost is on the map with the bridge crossing or everybody seems to gather I just heal the living s*** out of people and don't even bother shooting lol

[coarse loom]

You haven't said anything rude, that is true. What comes off as rude is while trying to show your perspective you refuse to engage with others perspectives at all. Even now the last part of this completely misses the point and for the people who interacted with you more than once it gets infuriating.

[coarse loom]

Like how is this in any way related to the fact that the progression system has gaps longer than some games have playtimes for certain classes/categories of weapons?

Have you even looked at what @civic gale conveniently compiled for you?

And I have one more question here, how will having less grind, more weapons to choose from and more options hurt your enjoyment?

If you want long-term goals you can always go for the camos and prestiges, why lock weapons behind a grind gate?

[civic gale]

its like playing the first stage of mario 1 but imagine you had to play that stage 100 times to unlock the next one

then when you get to 1-2 you'll need to play it 150 times to go onto 1-3

and so on

you can enjoy what you have yes but you will get bored at some point

you are a nice guy but your are very frustrating at times

[somber glacier]

I'm pretty sure it's just a kid with free time

[fresh jackal]

I get you, however we aren't wanting the progression to be so fast that it feels like there's nothing like you seem to think

And I'd guess that most people who dislike the progression are unable to or just don't want to play more than a couple hours a week

If you have 10 hours a week, it would take you 20 weeks to get to the first prestige

5 months

And that's assuming you are trying to be efficient and are consistent each minute

And you always play that much

The progression is directly and exclusively balanced around the people who do play 10 hours a day

And it doesn't seem you understand that

[jade wraith]

I honestly tried to get to the P90, but I gave up and switched to other games and I didn't regret it

[fresh jackal]

^ also part of my argument, the progression speed does the complete opposite of the devs goal for many people

[desert maple]

agreed, i understood that the dev wants the higher level to feel they acomplish something, but for those who just want to have fun, the casuals, that just want to mess around, it feels like you need to dedicated 5 hours each day just to get 1 weapon per day

i know alot have said this, but it got stale pretty quickly, and once you got bored of the game, you force yourself to play, and seeing others killing you with a vector, it got pretty frusturating and giving an impression of Unfairness because the casuals couldn't dedicate their time for one game

"well, its your problem then, this game meant for competitive player" previously, this game were a hardcore milsim, but then they thought it werent a great idea and decide to change the gameplay suited for casuals, if they decide to make the game for casuals in the first place, why is it a bad idea for the progression to be faster suited for the casuals? since again, with how slow the proggression are, is really unfair to those who doesn't have time to spend 300+ hours just to get the full experience of the game

[native nimbus]

Devs should crunch level 200 to level 100 and have all guns be unlocked by level 50.

[native nimbus]

Unlocking one specific gun < enjoying the game

[civic gale]

Maybe 75

Then you’ll unlock everything in about 60 hours

Or more or less

[jade wraith]

I think it's easier to take the unlock system from Battlefield4

[simple venture]

Take the unlock system from battlefield 2. Unlock anything in any order

[acoustic temple]

Aug A3 is pretty good though, niche weapon that has a place in the meta. It's not a kriss or p90 but for a sweet spot of 100-150m its very good.

[thick trench]

the thing is this ridiculous grind estimate is still hilariously naive math because level 1-50 takes ONE THIRD as much exp as level 51-100

so if it takes you 40 hours to get level 50 it will take 160 HOURS to get to level 100

[candid pumice]

I never claimed to be good at math, sir. 😂

[acoustic lodge]

devs waiting on everyone to get bored of the game before they fix progression or something?

[coarse loom]

I missed the devstream today, were any of the topics in feedback mentioned?

[weary basin]

They sid they read the discord and reddit for feedback and that the don't only listen to streamers and some other stuff. 😐

......

[somber glacier]

Progression fox is more guns soontm

[weary basin]

Forgot that they also said they have begun reading negative steam reviews

[coarse loom]

Thanks for the compilation

Let's see how long it takes for a response to the single most complained about topic

[trim marsh]

I literally cannot bring myself to play another game holding right click and 3 as medic the entire time. I can’t do it. It’s excruciatingly boring. If I just run and gun I get bored within minutes because I’ve got most attachments on all the guns I unlocked already and all of them do nothing to make the gun more interesting + almost all of those attachments are copy pasted to every other gun. there’s no caliber conversions, no underbarrel gadgets, nothing to spice things up. I have no reason to use anything other than the m4 when everything else is just slight stat variations that are often worse. I’m not gonna grind out 10 levels to get another to add to the pile. After less than 50 hours it’s become just another “it’s fun with friends” kind of game

[tropic halo]

You can try and switch to squad lead which is much more profitable than medic grind. But everything else is on point. There is no reason to grind next AR in hopes that it will be good time because you get ACR after 50 hr of grind which is "M4 but bad". Its unrewarding

[civic gale]

doesn't squad leader get double the points when taking objectives

if it doesn't how is it more profitable👀

[tropic halo]

Yep. Can get up to 100k points per game almost consistently

[civic gale]

you are talking about the class squad leader right

[tropic halo]

Nope. The thing is that you have to consistently give orders to your squad to conquest objectives. The more squad mates contesting - more points you get. Combine this with 50+ kills per game and you can rank up relatively easy. But its draining your stamina that playing more than 2 games is hard

[civic gale]

😔

[tropic halo]

So you get around 4k points per conquest

I also main engineer so add destroyed vehicles

[fresh jackal]

The issue with this and the battlefield unlock system a lot of people mention is the prestiges

And as I keep saying

Progression balanced around what's planned and not even started development

Not what's in the game or even close to releasing

We'll get some new guns tomorrow? Cool, too bad it will take me another 3 months to get to even the scorpion

Another 10 hours to be able to try any of the new guns

[modest imp]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, should the unlock levels get reduced permanently to what they were at the playtest at most, I will buy the supporter pack and gift the game to a few friends. I want to support developers that respect their players' time.

[weary basin]

Yea i also dont have anything against them. Just find it strange promoting "listening to the community" while ignoring the most liked feedback.

[acoustic lodge]

I think it’s clear they don’t care about this topic nearly as much as they should. People are quitting the game, myself included, because trying to unlock a new gun to use feels like a second job. I HAVE to play medic to get consistent xp which isn’t always fun and it will take me hours to get the next weapon which more often than not sucks. We need to have a system to directly unlock weapons that you want so it doesn’t feel like such a chore if you want a particular higher leveled weapon

[tulip crescent]

@acoustic lodge i also have found myself playing alot less mostly because the grind is just too much im lvl 75 and no where near the guns i would like to play n have thousands of kills with all the other guns. Just slowly getting borning sadly hope they fix it before they shot themselves in the foot.

[desert maple]

hope to get answers from the dev

[sly elk]

I would go a step further and say just do weapons and attachments like Siege, have them all unlocked and let us sort how we want them. It would help making weapon/attachment balancing easier and give more diversity to gameplay, earnables could stay as skins or something not gameplay affecting.

Early level guns seem to be too weak aside from the MP7, I see the Vector way too much also, I gather it is a higher level weapon but imo there shouldn't be a go to weapon. Everything could be balanced within their weapon types

I haven't played the modes with vehicles enough to know if this game has a system like that for vehicle upgrades but if so I would say those would be better already available also, I wouldn't wanna see a repeat of Battlefield with reactive armor and guided shells

[sand valve]

they said themselves that they will not be able to balance every gun is perfectly (i think its quite hard) but at least make more guns meta instead of 2-3

something similar is with medic, if everybody could heal themselves, he wouldnt be played nearly as much

and since youre mentioning siege, that game is a perfect example when nerfing is a very bad thing

constant nerfing just makes the game stale and boring, but buffing other options so they are more viable will always be more fun

[languid ether]

Many early guns are not weak. Just because they're not as ridiculous as the kriss doesn't make them weak. Only few are considered to be totally unviable.

Weapon balance is almost irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you exclude the anomalies (both OP and terrible) the power distribution of unlocks is alright.

[sand valve]

slight problem i see is that some high level guns are irrelevant or shit

for example acr

i know they will buff them

but still

like you need lvl 110 to unlock it and its worse than m4

[languid ether]

That is fair. My point was that 'Early level guns are weak' (and the underling imülocation that later unlocks are stronger) is false or at least a misleading assumption. Granted that Kriss and P90 are 'late' unlocks, but it has been made clear that these are unintended outliers.

[sand valve]

i mean its fine that some guns are worse, but its not really nice when you get a reward for achieving a high level that you wont even use

[languid ether]

You are arguing with a statement that isn't contradicting yours.

[sand valve]

its 3 am brain isnt working the best rn ngl

well whatever they do i just hope they buff instead of nerf

[fresh jackal]

ttk is already really low

Universal buff is harder and reduces the ttk

[tropic halo]

At this point i dont get why they wouldnt make a simple statement. I know 3 devs and stuff but is it really that hard to just say "yes" or "no"?
I'm almost 100% sure they've noticed this topic

[abstract peak]

I think that the weapons lvl requirement should be lowered and attachments for the guns should stay the same

[sly elk]

Going to have to disagree with that bit, I feel Siege is more stale because lack of content. Their reworks are more minor and barely noticeable, although I only play quick play so idk about people's opinions of comp

Overwatch would fit that more, they kept nerfing anything the DPS players cried about and killed their game (lack of content is an issue though also)

I see a few guns in use like the Vector, MP7, and a few snipers but rarely have I seen Aks many of the ARs running about unless it's another new player.

[sand valve]

high level siege even in competitions felt stale, they nerfed ops to the ground even tho what they nerfed was never the problem

constant nerfing just made people switch ops all the time

and they were and are still quite boring, because they nerfed guns so hard, its not even skill anymore, you win a gunfight if you have the better gun

[sly elk]

Constant nerf/buffing in any game is terrible imo, I rather have some new maps, characters, content than a rework of an existing character/map every update

[sand valve]

what siege has to do is do a whole season of fixes

because theres so much shit they gotta fix, but they dont care

2 years ago they suddenly started nerfing every op, making the game harder and less fun for no reason

[sly elk]

Ubisoft and Blizzard should look at things and internally play test instead of just trying to nerf a meta, they just make another meta and it's to be expected players will have favorite characters and such. Idk why they hate that so much

[sand valve]

jager was always a problem for them for some reason

they nerfed his gun multiple times, speed and even gadget, yet it did basically nothing. Why? because the nature of his gadget makes him essential

well not anymore, because nobody plays the game tactically, they just pick guns they wanna play and go kill like its cod

[sly elk]

Gotta sniff them feet lol

[sly elk]

Idk, I still enjoy it fine. I only play bomb on QP though

[sand valve]

before the current shitshow meta, you had to play jager anyway even tho his kit was horrible, just because without the gadget you would lose

[sly elk]

Often on Asia servers, I can't stand the way the Americans play, no reinforce, attack on defense and too scared to move on attack. Such a frustrating experience

[sand valve]

thats champion elo in ranked

right now

[sly elk]

Idk, I don't see characters as must have as say pirate ship in OW or AEK was in Battlefield

[sand valve]

like you would think champion elo would have the best of the best, but its only lucky people that have no clue how to play the game, but have alright aim

[sand valve]

in siege they were

every team had to run the same composition or they would lose, now you just pick the best guns (with 1.5x scope that ruined the game) and kill

[sly elk]

Characters in siege can all kill each other, with gadgets being a nice minor thing but not god tier

[sand valve]

oh no

gadgets are supposed to be even more important

thats the whole point of the game, gunplay is important but it shouldnt have exceeded 50%

siege was always a slow, tactical, methodical game, but they ruined it on multiple occasions :/

they even ruined pro league now 💀

its basically dead

[sly elk]

Idk, I never cared for pro/esports (I would say that helped to kill OW though)

[sand valve]

well siege is an esports game

but they dont treat it like one

[sly elk]

They treated OW like one, didn't give a shit about anyone not in the top 500

[sand valve]

ow shouldve always been a casual game

it never seemed to me as an esports game

[sly elk]

Idk, I would be fine with it having an esports but don't fuck the game for the majority of players based on what the top 500 do

[sand valve]

that is fine for a mostly casual game, but siege, csgo and valorant are not very casual

[sly elk]

Games will always have shit bucket no lives, I don't feel they should nerf things because someone has mastered something

[sand valve]

even tho i think valorant is too casual

[sly elk]

Idk, not my kinds of games

[sand valve]

i know, but all im saying is that they gotta balance the game for what its intended purpose is

if its an esports game, you balance it for ranked/pro league, if its a more casual game, you balance it so everyone can have a chance and its fun

[sly elk]

I wouldn't say siege should focus on esports then

[sand valve]

core idea of siege is: slow, tactical

it makes no sense then having people running around the map headless killing people, cod, battlefield and even battlebit now exist for that purpose

[sly elk]

That's fine, doesn't have to be fast and dumb to be something for casual gamers

[sand valve]

but it is now

and thats how casual players usually play the game

they just wanna have fun messing around without having to worry about winning

which is fine, thats why that game mode exists

[sly elk]

Like Battlefield could be more tactical if it had better team chat and better map layout

[sand valve]

i mean tbh, i think the scale of the game is too big to be tactical

its easier to coordinate with 5 people, rather than 64

[sly elk]

But that's because it doesn't have a good ping or team chat system

Planetside was massive as fuck, idk how many players but sometime u would get 3 massive armies fighting over areas of the map

[sand valve]

yeah but still, how are you gonna make 60 people do a well thought out strategy, its basically impossible, and you basically dont gain anything from winning

usually only some progression and stats

because there is no ranked

[sly elk]

People like a thing and it's not overly complicated then they'll use it

It's part of the fun

U don't have to have rank to wanna play tactical

[sand valve]

yes but there is no incentive to

thats the thing

you dont have to play tactical to win in games like cod, battlebit and battlefield

you could win with just pure gunskill, in esports games every life matters, if you die you are out of the game for the rest of the round, you have to play tactical to win

[pallid rose]

too fast paced to be tactical

[sly elk]

To my knowledge Arma doesn't have a rank or anything yet many enjoy it and play it like actual militaries

[sand valve]

well thats basically a milsim...

[sly elk]

It is yeah but people don't have to play that way, they like it so they do it. U said because no rank or incentives to do it then people won't bother

[sand valve]

arma is supposed to simulate war, incentive is that you want to feel like a soldier basically

how are you gonna do that in a fast paced game where you run around killing people

especially when the people are blocks

[pallid rose]

agreed its too fast

[sly elk]

I don't think it's too fast paced, sure it is more based on gunplay but tactics can still be useful and fun

[sand valve]

it is very fast paced

i think its on par or even more than bf5

[sly elk]

Like in BF3 rush the tanks were extremely important to capturing objectives, at least on the 360 with it being 24v24?

[pallid rose]

tactis can work with a dedicated squad, but with randoms? nah

[sly elk]

Or capturing particular points to hold down an area

[sand valve]

exactly what i said

especially if we are talking about the whole team

its even worse

[pallid rose]

its impossible

[sand valve]

yup

thats why 5v5 shooters are usually very tactical and slower

because you can actually coordinate

and usually have to

[sly elk]

Well again, battlefield lacked good means of communication even for the individual squads

[sand valve]

well battlebit has team leader vc and i dont think people even know it exists

[sly elk]

Idk, the ping system could be improved though

[sand valve]

yeah but if you want to play tactically, i dont think pinging is even relevant

[sly elk]

A nice radial menu with things u may wanna say but not have to need vc for

[pallid rose]

revamp the ping system to add live pings so that recon drones can be more useful and maybe get xp for being used

[sand valve]

it will help, but the core game will never be very tactical

although i think they are making a milsim mode, which probably will do what you want it to

[pallid rose]

its very run and gun like cod

[sand valve]

yes

like you literally gain nothing from winning

all you need is points and kills

to rankup

and stats ofc

you get 60 kills, 70k points and you lost? well it doesnt matter, you still probably leveled up and gained some kd, but that loss doesnt matter at all

so why be tactical, if all you need is kills and points? you can get that without teamwork

[sly elk]

I don't want a milsim mode, I can't stand wanna be realistic games like Arma, insurgency, day of infamy

I don't want to run about like a headless chicken either but doesn't mean I wanna be on a milsim

[desert maple]

there will be milsim mode, is called hardcore

it will released this month or next

but if you dont want to play it, you can just not choose it in the server browser

[sly elk]

We could have nice in-betweens, there are not enough of those in the middle type games

[modern vigil]

I've put 60 hours in over three days and I'm about level 71. I'm going to be pretty burnt out by the time I hit level 100, let alone 200. If it wasn't for the fact the P90 is one of my favourite guns due to nostalgia, I wouldn't bother getting those four more ranks.

Adding to that, if the point of rank-based progression is to reward players with new weapons and tools based on their total earned experience, then that means that certain weapons will be harder to obtain. I'm all for some weapons being more difficult to unlock or obtain, but at a certain point the sheer amount of xp needed is no longer a rewarding challenge and is just a slog. I would welcome an alternative method to earning the next weapon. Instead of an xp goal, maybe a high number of kills with the previous weapon? I'm unsure how to fix the exaggerated grind, because it's fun, but too grindy.

[lament mist]

I'm 174 and I've found myself slow down completely as I have nothing new left to look forward to unocking, IMO unlocks and levels should finish at 150 not 200

[modern vigil]

Definitely agree with you. I'd even take 100. I think the devs should rebalance the progression and cut the xp grind by a significant percentage. It feels excessive. How many millions of xp, do we need?

[acoustic temple]

Same concept generally speaking with deep rock galactic

[rocky wasp]

i just hope that the newer guns that they bring out to fill the level gaps are not just shit versions of what we already have case in point the ACR, AK5C which are both 100+ weapons yet worse than the 2 start ARs, they really need to do a strong rework for those types of guns to make them feel like they have there own uses

[coarse loom]

I feel like this is statistically unachievable. You can't both add enough weapons to make the abysmal grind feel better and make them distinct from each other or make them good.

[rocky wasp]

fair, i just hope the f2000 aint gonna be dogshit

[deft needle]

I personally think we shouldn't jump on the bandwagon of "lower level unlocks" yet, especially when people aren't playing the game in a way that even gets them more levels outside of medic heal spam and we don't have the other plethora of confimed weapons out yet.

Hell, it'd be even worse because when a new weapon comes out, if they moved everything to pre-100 then when a new weapon dropped the majority of people couldn't even use it

[coarse loom]

@deft needle here take a look at these. Even with new weapons the way the xp requirements scale makes no sense if you stop and do the math. This won't be just fixed with more weapons.

[deft needle]

So then they'd have to also rework the progression which is obvious from the jump. Reducing xp requirements just adds to the problem of not getting more weapons later on.

It fixes nothing when we don't even have the full list of weapons that are supposed to be out when the game launches, so why are we doing the math for something that is definitely not final?

So then what? Will we have to re-unlock weapons or are we just going to load the tail end of levels with guns and have the same exact issue?

It's just better for them to stick with the current progression and either decrease/increase XP than to group the weapons together and make the higher levels even more pointless for anyone not going for camos.

[coarse loom]

what? we are doing the math on the current system to give feedback. You know so they can improve it?

also you don't have to unlock weapons until the final level, remember bf3? that game had 100 levels of basically no unlocks yet nobody complained about that.

[deft needle]

Improve a iteration of a system that hasn't has a addition to it for us to base their methodology of adding weapons to progression yet?

[coarse loom]

I prefer unlocking weapons in less than 100 hours and as seen from this thread and others many people do too

[coarse loom]

It doesn't matter if they add more weapons to the tail end or not is the point. They set the level scaling to be linear, that means the time it takes to level up behaves like a parabola which makes it take longer and longer to level up/unlock shit

[deft needle]

Even back then I thought it was pointless

[coarse loom]

also this happened to people who played before the EA release if I'm not mistaken

[deft needle]

Ok now I understand more what you're talking about, I still don't agree with the idea of shortening it when we haven't had a addition to the current lineup yet.

[coarse loom]

it the progression system doesn't require you to put in 100 hours for the guns you want it won't be an issue

[coarse loom]

Parabolic behaviour needs to go. Maybe they can set the xp requirement to be a constant number after a level (like levelling up past 45 in bf3).

[deft needle]

I think they just need to add ways to get more XP like a post-match bonus.

The issue isn't progressing, it's getting the score to progress

[coarse loom]

if you don't mind me asking what is your current level?

[deft needle]

153

[coarse loom]

few people who passed 150 and I talked to complained that the levelling becomes so slow it becomes a chore at that point

[deft needle]

My issue was never the height, but the lack of ways to get the experience needed

[coarse loom]

which agrees with the math completely

[coarse loom]

this is a big issue as well

[deft needle]

Fully agree

[coarse loom]

but what having more xp would do is

see the score per min area

you'd just put a bigger number there

considering there are prestiges in this game I argue that the overall shape of the graph needs to change in addition to having more sources to get xp

like the "recon" class not having a single way to provide info to his team other than his squad is just bad

[deft needle]

Yep, I think first things is to give players more avenues to gain xp before we start adjusting required xp. Because depending on your preferred class it's very skewed atm from that alone.

Like just giving a 20% match bonus or some for completion would do wonders

[flint path]

As long as this topic has been going on I'm at level 130 and I didn't complain once about the leveling

So that means in about a month casual playing I should be max level so basically two month to reach max level doesn't seem like that much of a grind to me

[tropic halo]

What about your playtime? How much did it take you in hours?

[weary basin]

You are not the avareage player xd. This is from my reddit post

" By looking at statistics from edgio and midia research both say the average weekly playtime is around 8hr (this should be with mobile and console). It would take the average player a little over 5 months to be able to use all weapons only while playing battlebit."

Also you are top 2% of the players out of 10k people (prop even higher because this was people ingame rank)

???

Ahh nvm

So you have 80hr the last 2 weeks and 150 total

[flint path]

I'm level 115 by the way

[tropic halo]

Didn't you just say that you're lvl 130? Anyway, 142 hr in total in less than a 2 months isn't average.

[flint path]

115 I thought I was 130

[coarse loom]

Last two weeks: 84 hours, that averages to 6 hours a day. Yep, totally an average gamer here.

[flint path]

Lol

[weary basin]

Forget the picture:

[flint path]

I only had so many hours last week because my wife and the kids went to Pittsburgh and I was home alone for 2 days

[coarse loom]

mate

why are you arguing here exactly

[flint path]

Yeah I guess you guys are right I play way more than most people I didn't even realize that until I saw my hours

[coarse loom]

cause every time we try to explain to you what wer are talking about you just spout some irrelevant shit

[flint path]

I didn't realize I played that long

[coarse loom]

6 hours a day is nowhere near average

[flint path]

That's actually f****** insane

[coarse loom]

not that insane you just had a lot of free time

[tropic halo]

Mate, your SPM must be not good. You know that it will take you like 200 hr to get to lvl 150?

[tropic halo]

No, not insane, lots of folks play that and even more for their whole life

[flint path]

You got to understand I just play I like to go for kills I only used the medic XP thing to get the vector after that I just started regularly playing

[coarse loom]

Let me explain something that seems to be not understood still

see the shape of this graph

the way it curves

[tropic halo]

Me too, i actually never used medic, so this seems strange to me. Just sayin'

[coarse loom]

that means it takes progressively longer time to level up as you go forward

[flint path]

Yeah I've noticed I have not been leveling up as fast now that I'm higher level

[coarse loom]

so you cannot estimate how much you'll be from your past levelling

[flint path]

That's how if you games I played in the past work once your points get higher EXP gain is lower

[coarse loom]

this is not a good way to have your levelling system be

especially if it takes 335 hours to hit max level

that is basically what people have been saying here

[flint path]

Man if I play that much I saw a few people last night that were level 190 something how many hours do they play a day

[coarse loom]

a lot

probably an unhealthy amount

[tropic halo]

Much more than you but you also have to consider that their spm is like 2500+

[flint path]

Yeah I only play when my kids go to bed which is 7:00 and most nights I'm off by 11:00 but if I don't have much work going on the next day I will stay up till 12:00 sometimes 1:00.... Now this weekend I think Saturday I played 10 hours solid lmao

And not going to lie to you I felt sick when I laid down to go to sleep

[tropic halo]

You must be in love with this game to play 10 hr straight

[flint path]

Well that was the first time that my wife and kids ever went somewhere without me so I didn't know what to do with myself at home so I just smoked a bunch of weed and played battledbit

[tropic halo]

now thats a based freetime spending

[flint path]

I will admit it was nice being alone and just gaming

[civic gale]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-endgame-avengers-gone-ashes-gif-14019029

[coarse loom]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-adorable-duckling-haha-classic-gif-17283485

[tropic halo]

Mr okidoki, i dont feel progression

[coarse loom]

https://tenor.com/view/bop-bop-bop-cat-gif-19512339

giving this a bop to avoid being buried under new threads

[candid pumice]

I sincerely hope you're kidding. A month to unlock all the guns in a game is an absolute joke. Not even Battlefield 3 and 4's dlc weapon requirements took that long.

[civic gale]

He isn’t 😔

He said 2 months isn’t a long grind about a month ago

and no matter how much proof we show him he is going to repeat the same 20 lines

[candid pumice]

I guarantee you, he is the type of superior person who enjoys having guns no one else does, and is often boasting in chat about kills he gets with his high level guns.

[coarse loom]

some of those dlc requirements were absolute tortue too 💀

[fresh jackal]

I would somewhat understand the progression under one thing

If there was no prestige

But there is

And there are currently 10 of them

Only 3 have skins, that's already over 600 hours of grinding medic over and over to unlock them all

If they fill out all the prestiges

You know where this is going

They already have a lot of stuff to unlock for those who care about having a goal

The gun progression arbitrary increases it to the point it's unfun and incredibly overwhelming for any casual player

I don't have more than 100 hours on any game in my steam account

Maybe 3 games ever I have more than 100 hours

Tarkov, Roblox, and Minecraft

So I personally see no way I'm going to want to prestige

And I don't see the point in leveling past level 150

[coarse loom]

Just a little correction, if you are at 1000 score per min 3 prestiges would take you 1005 hours. Now it's unlikely somebody plays through 3 prestiges with 1000 spm but that is the baseline we have used in this thread.

[raw blade]

Devs dont give a fuck about it.

They will add non important things like maps, "very useful" wall for support, but wont change few numbers to make progression feel better.

[coarse loom]

Their call, I've seen a lot of people quit/stop playing because of how annoying they found the grind

We're just trying to give some feedback but honestly it feels like they don't give a rat's ass about player created feedback threads

[raw blade]

Their priorities reminds me about YandereDev

[coarse loom]

Don't know much about that but I head that shit was crazy

[sly elk]

I think i'm going to give up and say fuck it too, it take way too long to get guns and attachments. weapon balance is shit, no passive health regen is a bit dumb imo, many medics won't heal. health could be displayed a bit better than a slight blood overlay when low health. Invisible barriers need some sort of texture letting people know they are there, some seem to have a texture but most do not. I'll come back if they decide to address any of these things but until then I don't see a point in grinding for bs

[tiny cloud]

I would say if you guys finding the grind too bad to enjoy the game I would say take a break in all seriousness, no point of forcing yourself into burnout just to get more weapons (even if most pass a certain level suck)

I taken one mainly cause of burnout + other game I look forward to got update or release but will always come back to battle bit later and hopefully they change xp grind, or not

[tropic halo]

That's generally nice advice. I also tried to take a break for a week or so. Came back after my friend bought it but even than after 70 hr without proper rewarding with fluid progression it felt stale

[tiny cloud]

Yeah, I also try to shift my focus on skin farming on weapons I unlock and really like help drown out the slow leveling post 100

[coarse loom]

this can give some of these weird gatekeepers their much coveted "long-term progression"

but why am I even saying this at this point

[tiny cloud]

Made a point in this chat about it weird having 2 LONG term progression system but I'm at this point of pretending leveling don't exist anymore, technically got the weapon I want so I don't stress over it anymore

[deft needle]

Right, like I've been just going for max camos on rifles while I've been playing. Stopped caring about guns to unlock when I got the L96.

[coarse loom]

lmao same

[deft needle]

I have a favorite gun, sure. But I'm not gonna hard grind for it. There's plentiful of fun weapons to use in the meantime

especially when both turned out to be mid at best anyways

I GUARANTEE you that you guys have guns you like using prior to getting your beloved

[coarse loom]

Sucks to be you if you are a sniper though

[deft needle]

Sniping progression is ass, ngl

[coarse loom]

cause you have 2 rifles before hitting rank 65 i.e. about 35 hours in

weapon progression should be done like BF4 or BF3

[deft needle]

Plus some of them are insta useless when you get the next unlock

[coarse loom]

you should get weapons as you use that type of weapon or as you use a class

otherwise you are left with recon where you get a single weapon every 30-40 hours after sv98

[deft needle]

Tbh though, once you get the L96 and M2000 the rest don't matter.

They def need better roles for the other snipers you unlock

[coarse loom]

yeah cause the others are statistically worse

which makes no sense

[deft needle]

Like flat out, the Remington is after the L96 and it's statistically worse

[coarse loom]

L98, M200 and MSR have around the same muzzle velocity irl but somehow in BB M200 has 400 m/s higher muzzle velocity

[coarse loom]

Remington at least has that incredible shooting sound though

[deft needle]

Same with the MSR, they sound good but it's just L96 but worse or SLIGHTLY better

[coarse loom]

MSR's sound isn't as impressive as remington's though so it cannot carry

[deft needle]

Fair

[coarse loom]

Just gotta wait for the sniper feedback thread

ah fuck I just realized I can't post my fucking chart there

no picture rule is kinda cringe since it doesn't care about context

[deft needle]

Understandable though

[coarse loom]

yeah but it makes providing evidence much harder

I can't do shit like this

[tiny cloud]

Me getting level 100 to find out the new lmg is kinda bad

[deft needle]

Me unlocking the AK5C to finally realize it fucking blows

[whole wadi]

I just found out the USP is worse than the MP-443. In what world does that make sense?

[desert maple]

Nah, yandere dev is in a whole another level, almost a decade and yet, still no game

[deft needle]

You guys can not realistically expect a 3 man team to ship insta fixes and balance changes

Them taking time to let us actually get more weapons before nerfing or buffing is the play.

[civic gale]

It’s been a month

This post has existed since day one of early access launch

So has the other one in #1019647856770023554 I believe

It can’t be that hard right? Don’t you just move some numbers around

[civic gale]

There’s also been videos and Reddit posts

One post getting over 800 upvotes

😔

[deft needle]

And?

[civic gale]

It’s the top post in feedback

In ✅ votes that is

[deft needle]

Doesn't mean they're gonna suddenly shift into fixing it

[civic gale]

You’d think after all the feedback they would change something

[deft needle]

They were busy fixing bugs, and server issues

I'd rather them do that lol

[civic gale]

They haven’t acknowledged it iirc

[civic gale]

Wouldn’t that take more time than changing a few numbers around

Lowering a 150 level weapon to 110 or something

Unless there’s more to that

They wanted to add one gun per week and if I remember right the large spaces between the weapons is planned around future content

[deft needle]

Yep

So why adjust now?

[civic gale]

It’s still too high

Should any gun be locked behind 188 hours on average

For any game

[deft needle]

No obviously, would those other games be planning to add more guns over time to fill those slots?

[civic gale]

Still

[deft needle]

So likely not, ok.

And all reducing ranks wouls do is gate new guns behind higher levels

Which is already really shitty feeling in majority of other FPS games

[civic gale]

I think all the guns should be unlocked by level 100-120

For both future and current weapons

Or how about a currency system like bf1

Get what you want when you want

[somber glacier]

Ideally guns don't reach level 150 period. That should be for alternate unlocked armors (heavy armor variant), uniforms and other cosmetics

By level 80-100-120 depending who you ask, you should own everything that affects your gameplay experience, and if you want to prestige you grind out the rest with some cosmetics on the way

[desert maple]

no, we need response, tbh, i dont mind if they dont want to change it, for me, all i need is a response to this problem

there's still no answer nor acknowledgement towards this (that i've heard of)
i still dont know their goal for the grind

[mystic stump]

Yeah, it feels like the devs are ignoring this problem on purpose, because easier progression is by far the most requested change (even more than the SMG/Vector nerf).

Either they already have plans for future changes or don't want to change progression at all.

[coarse loom]

Spouting "we listen to the community" while ignoring the most talked about complaint makes it looked like you were lying about the listening thing

At this point people are not even asking for a change to happen, just acknowledgement is enough

The levelling system feels like no thought was put behind it

Just throw a linear function together in a couple seconds and be done kind of thing, not realizing that'd mean the time requirement would have a parabolic graph

🤷‍♂️

[coarse loom]

oh and also putting out mod created feedback threads about very specific topics like a single weapon doesn't help this either

[sly elk]

Or why not just have them already unlocked like Siege, why grind to unlock gameplay affecting things. It makes it more challenging for the noobs and long timers basically get training wheels to make everything better for them

Zoom optics, foregrips, guns, I really hope this game doesn't have things for vehicles like battlefield did. I prefer 32v32 so I don't think I'll be seeing the vehicles often

[coarse loom]

because "muh progression"

[sly elk]

We could have cosmetic progression 🙂

[fresh jackal]

The current progression was made in basically a day

It's been a month and a week

One change has been made in terms of progression, over a month ago

No balance changes

Which is not what this thread is about

[fresh jackal]

I personally prefer a weapon progression system, just one that has a bit more thought than this one that was thrown together in a couple hours before release despite nobody complaining during playtests about the progression.

The thing with siege is that it is fundementally a competitive game

And it's not like you are just given everything off the bat

You have to buy the operators

And then they only have a limited selection of weapons

Have a system where you choose what you unlock or just a system like it is now where the order of unlocks is already set

Or even a system like MW2

idc

Just it needs to not be so slow, you shouldn't feel forced to grind a certain class to make meaningful progress, and a casual player should want to prestige once they reach that point

Just giving everyone everything at once would just mean everyone runs the meta and there is much less variety

[deft needle]

Confirmation on this?

And why are we assuming they're not doing anything to fix it?

Devs absolutely don't HAVE to share shit like that with us.

And it's absolutely not a large enough issue atm if people haven't stopped playing in droves. A rework of the current unlock system hurts the game more than it would help especially when majority of the playerbase hasn't hit the point where it's even a issue overall.

It's quite literally easier and better long term for us if we WAIT to see how they add new weapons and go from there

[coarse loom]

way to be more catholic than the pope right there

[coarse loom]

we have been over this, adding weapons won't change how poor the math is

[coarse loom]

it is a large enough issue to be the most complained about topic though

you don't need to wait until something does damage to fix it

[deft needle]

The math doesn't matter when it's literally before anything has been added to that path

[coarse loom]

the math does matter wtf

the reason why he can say thrown together in a day is how bad the math it

[deft needle]

Am I saying it doesn't feel shitty?

No

I'm saying them jumping at a fix for it atm is def not going to address it

[coarse loom]

no you are refusing to understand that your idea won't fundementally solve that some weapons will still require 95+ hours to get

smh

even BBR feedback forums have fence sitters

[deft needle]

Almost like I play the game for more reasons than unlocking guns

[coarse loom]

what about the people in this thread that have said they feel burned out and quit?

[coarse loom]

almost like I want to experience all parts of the game?

[deft needle]

Why do you feel like you NEED to grind?

[coarse loom]

this change literally doesn't effect you at all then

[coarse loom]

are you serious rn?

I get a new weapon every 30 hours playing as a sniper

that's not ok

maybe I have a gun that I really enjoy and want to use it

whoops it's behind a 100 hour grind

if you don't want to see other people's perspectives why are you even here to argue?

[deft needle]

I'm deadass not understanding why this is even a issue for most when we have seen zero info on what their intent even is to do with the system.

[coarse loom]

smh

how?

how do you not understand people not wanting to spend absurd amount of hours just to get to play with a weapon?

how do you look at this graph and think that's good math

[deft needle]

Because they've literally made the game in a way that majority of weapons beyond rank 60 are actually just rehashes of the few early weapons or worse/better in some areas

[coarse loom]

doesn't matter into the argument

people don't want to play with the good guns

they want to use the guns they like

from other media

[deft needle]

Then I'm never gonna understand I guess since fun came first for me before I got the guns I liked WAY later on.

[coarse loom]

If you actually tried

you would

it's not that complex of a complaint

but you are being stubborn on your own experience

[deft needle]

It's not, but outside of the weird spacing for certain classes, I literally don't see a issue that isnt fixed with adding more weapons in that huge ass gap/adding ways XP is gained

If anything, shit just needs a xp reduction especially since theres 3 prestiges for weapon camo grinding

Because as we discussed, past 150 your leveling turns into a slog

And that would shorten the hours needed to level if it just wasn't adding 1k exp per level which gradually makes it feel worse.

Idk if it was you, but a set amount past level 100 is a good idea.

Shortning the progression itself and not the weapon spacing fixes this issue

Which is why I have been as confused as I have been that we're only going off guns and not the actual entire xp needed to get there in the first place.

Because if you do it that way, then yeah...

It'll look like shit.

[coarse loom]

This is literally what we've been saying. Nobody is just focusing on guns except the thread title which is old.

Why would I post the graph of hours per level otherwise?

[deft needle]

Why are we also recirculating this then if that is that argument?

Because this just tells me the in-between levels suck and give nothing and should be shorter, not to move guns and that's all I've seen in a argument against the current system which solves nothing if we crunch the weapons

If anything guns need to be moved for WAY different reasons lol

But again, now that I finally PROPERLY understand I'll drop it.

[coarse loom]

Because it's directly effected by the time between levels? Also shortening the time between levels kind of requires the math to be changed

[coarse loom]

glad that I was able to explain

[deft needle]

It was more so that you and OP have tossed that exact image at me so many times I assumed it was a "no instant gratification :(" argument, I just misunderstood.

Because it doesn't REALLY help with the issue that the level curve shoots into mount everest past 150

I also still think people struggle with points because they walk into deathballs 24/7

[coarse loom]

the graph is the thing to show that

the graph alone might not make people understand though

[coarse loom]

also outside of medic most classes don't have ways of reliably getting xp

[coarse loom]

Don't assume what people's arguments are please. It gets real frustrating arguing with someone who is not even arguing with you.

maybe I shouldn't have posted the chart though

[deft needle]

The chart DOES not help lol

I would have just done hours to every 10 levels

Looks better and gets the point across with numbers instead of the exponential graph

[coarse loom]

there's a google doc link that got buried somewhere here

can't even post the link 💀

[candid pumice]

You don't understan why people are frustrated that it can take 100 hours to unlock all the guns? That we have to grind our asses off just to try every gun in the game? Really?

[deft needle]

Had I never seen that chart I wouldn't have had anything to deny tbh

[coarse loom]

This is really bad faith arguing though

If chart is not relevant you can ignore it and focus on the relevant bit

It's not arguing to solve an issue it's arguing to win

the graph should be enough imo

[deft needle]

But then I get @ by a bulk of other people talking about them as a main point which also makes me think it's relevant

So... hard to differentiate

[coarse loom]

Welcome to arguing in a public thread

[deft needle]

[coarse loom]

At least this thread died down a bit

the newly added ones are an absolute nightmare to argue in

[deft needle]

Case and point.

As someone whose level 158, yeah I'm mad aware. Reduce the XP for later levels and make it a flat unchanging amount past level 100.

[candid pumice]

Or, move all the higher weapon unlocks to lower levels and incentivize us to keep playing with optional things, not requirements.

[deft needle]

And on that note, I'm going to bed.

[coarse loom]

I lowkey think that 200 levels is too much

for a game that has prestiges no less

[candid pumice]

I would never prestige my account, but I would prestige the weapons, because the attachment unlock isn't an issue, and the camos are nice

[deft needle]

It's the climb thats the issue, not really where things are at

[coarse loom]

Feels like no math was done to see if the time requirement would be sensical

[deft needle]

Like it's ass

[coarse loom]

since as it stands rn prestige 3 would take 1005 hours with 1000 score per min

which is just dumb

I'm like 90% sure they didn't think about it or done the math about it at all before implementing

[deft needle]

It takes me like 2 good games of like 70k-80k experience to get a level and that's if I'm not trying to grind a gun that already has problems getting kills.

[coarse loom]

there's no way in hell you think a parabolic lvls vs time graph is good

but they have official threads

what a clown show honestly

[deft needle]

I still don't expect them to DIRECTLY respond

They probably saw the title like I did and was immediately like "nope"

But I doubt they haven't heard complaints on the current system

Just again, majority of people are focused on the weapons and not "what's the point of the other 100 taking so long if it's just for camos and M4 reskins?"

Hell if we had more cool cosmetic options behind later levels I honestly wouldn't even have a huge issue since it's practically all cosmetic past 140 anyways

[weary basin]

900🎉🎉

[fresh jackal]

Because you won't be able to unlock certain weapons until you grind medic for 300 hours

Prestiging would be a waste of time

And I see it being incredibly unhealthy for the game that unlocks are balanced around stuff that isn't even in the game

The unlock progression won't be fleshed out until well into next year

[coarse loom]

is this a prediction or insider knowledge?

[fresh jackal]

Prediction

[coarse loom]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-adorable-agt-agtgi-fs-americas-got-talent-gif-10759006

[somber glacier]

I'm so glad we're getting new guns to fill the gaps

Interesting feature to make them invisible on the select screen

[coarse loom]

while new weapons are nice this wouldn't adress the core of the issue so I hope they just don't add new weapons and call it a day

[somber glacier]

That's their plan

They aren't doing anything else

We've already been told again and again

[coarse loom]

When?

I've not heard them talk about progression at all

and if this is the case somebody should tell them about a little somethinc called basic calculus

[fresh jackal]

They do during dev streams and stuff

They are absolutely set in their ways

Idc about the level XP increasing

I really care about having guns locked behind hundreds of hours of medic grinding (takes 50-100% longer if you don't grind) and the issue with prestiges

Prestiges are built without the casual player in mind at all

[simple venture]

more guns doesn't solve anything, ESSPECIALLY if they are targeting the gap at the end of leveling

[fresh jackal]

Which is what they will target first

It makes updates unexciting because "woah new sniper too bad I haven't even unlocked the m200 yet"

And have to get another 100 levels to use that no gun

On the higher end of the XP spectrum

The 50 levels of no guns past level 150 is much more than a third of the XP required to get from level 1 to 200

[coarse loom]

idk I actually never heard them directly adress progression, they just dodge the topic

[coarse loom]

the entire levelling system is atrocious for any kind of player though

I legitimately think there was absolutely no thought behind it

you can see this from the extremely simplistic function as well

y = 1000+1000x

to implement this you HAVE to have not given it a single second of thought

it'd be fine if they admitted the mistake and fixed it

but turning a blind eye to this will just make people not play it in the long run

[simple venture]

I mean something like 1000 + 1000x works fine for smaller level counts, just 200 levels is A LOT of levels to scale off of

[coarse loom]

That's why I'm saying there was no thought behind it

Probably checked it until around level 50 (which corresponds to 20 hours w/ 1000 spm) then called it a day

not realizing level 100 takes 95 hours and level 200 takes 335 hours

that's why this topic is so annoying

[fresh jackal]

I just don't see the issue personally

I don't think that's the issue, I think it's the speed at which you gain xp

[coarse loom]

the issue appears when you realize the time it takes for a certain level is the integral of thi s

so you get a second degree polynomial

ending up with the graph you have above and each level taking increasingly more time

[fresh jackal]

Yeah I get that

[coarse loom]

there's a reason when you have linear level requirement increase the max level is rather low

[fresh jackal]

I don't think that's an issue personally and it's definitely not the issue

[coarse loom]

if you have a high max level you generally see constant level requirements

[coarse loom]

my brother in christ it literally is the issue with levelling taking so long

you can increase the xp gained sure

but you'll just make the graph smaller

[fresh jackal]

I'm talking about how it increases

[coarse loom]

the shitty behaviour of the graph doesn't change

[fresh jackal]

The graph shape

I don't believe is an issue

The numbers in the equation, yes that's part of the issue

[coarse loom]

this is literally what the graph shows though

[fresh jackal]

I have no problem whatsoever with the graph shape

You could probably half the XP it starts at and increases by though

At least

[coarse loom]

hold on

let me draw that graph for you

500+500*x

just as a start

max level now takes 250 hours to reach

[fresh jackal]

It's just the graph that was posted 500 million times here but the hours for each level is half

[flint path]

Ahhh...I'm still here

[coarse loom]

it is not half though

that's the thing

you don't suddenly go down to 167.5 hours for max level

you go down to 250

[fresh jackal]

And why would that be the case

[coarse loom]

cause math

[fresh jackal]

The amount of XP for each level would be half

[coarse loom]

but the growth is still parabolic

[fresh jackal]

I've never taken calculus before so I can't comment on what you are saying

It just makes more sense to me that if the XP per level is halfed, then the time to go from one level to the next for each level is also halfed

So you add up all those times for each level and it should be directly half of the original time

But the graph curve is still there

Anyway I'm just saying I don't have a problem with a parabolic graph shape, just the values should be reduced

It would help a lot of there were more ways to get xp and current xp sources were buffed

[coarse loom]

classes other medic need xp sources

[somber glacier]

You have to hunt it down but that's what's been proposed. I'll look but Im pretty sure it was a voice thing

[coarse loom]

I only missed last week's stream so it might be there but I asked around here and they said they just dodged it again

[somber glacier]

Yea idk

If is in writing it's buried af

[simple venture]

During the AMA the answer about pregression was just adding more weapons to make it "feel better"

[whole wadi]

if they add another weapon, i hope it's another LMG.

[coarse loom]

Clueless answer

hopefully they realize that won't fix shit

[fresh jackal]

They don't get that the issue isn't the gaps

It's the time to get to the upper end

And how useless a prestige is

I love collecting stuff and I would gladly collect the prestige skins

But not if I have to reset 300 hours of my life from step 1

[coarse loom]

the total 3 prestiges take 1005 hours btw

absolutely absurd

[desert maple]

i dont mind the prestiges takes absurdly long as is a way for grinders to have something to work on
but they should've focused on the cosmetics as a way to rewards higher level, not using the gun as a reward

and tbh, they could've gone much more better with the camos in higher prestiges, but meh

[fathom relic]

they really need to readjust the formula for ranking up because this is ridiculous

[jade wraith]

apple

[fathom relic]

the XP gain that you think you get from playing the game (your leaderboard score) doesnt even match the XP that you will get
https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/comments/15axm2s/certain_activities_ingame_give_4x_the_amount_of/

adding guns or gadgets to remove the empty spaces inbetween ranks does not solve the problem of it being drastically a pain in the ass to level up, the higher your level is

[jade wraith]

The progression on the playtest was better, I still don't understand why it needed to be changed to this shit

[fathom relic]

no clue

[desert maple]

the problem with why medic is popular is also because of the absurdly long grind for the weapons
it give both easy XP and a variety of weapon to choose giving much more playstyle for the players
while for others like recon, even thought is arguably the highest XP you can get, but the skill needed are much more higher and the XP it gives are not that much of a difference if you're going on frenzy healing and reviving people

the lengthy grind with how much XP you need at higher ranks will make the casual always pick medic as its the only way to grind easily while having alot of weapon choice
giving restriction to the casuals giving less class variety and totally make the gameplay get stale pretty quickly

some might say "this game is for the competitive" but without the casuals, none of the competitive will get easy frags
and if the game design doesn't cater much to the casuals, the less casuals will get into this game
i'm not saying this game should be casual, but the weapons, the XP Grind, should really be considered a change
needing to play 100+ hours to unlock all the content is just absurd
the prestige should've been the main focus of the long term grind

TLDR. Content locked behing 100+ hours grind = players searching easy way to grind (playing medic) = much more stricter gameplay = gameplay getting stale pretty quickly = getting less playtime as how stricted you're

[candid pumice]

the problem with why medic is popular is also because of the absurdly long grind for the weapons

Fucking this. I love variety in my gameplay. I like to be an engineer for a while, then support, then medic, then switch around again depending on my mood. but the fact is, medic is the only way to guarantee you get a shit ton of XP. Do you know what my main gameplay style is right now? Literal medic, only medic. I have healed and revived more teammates than I have killed enemies, because I am desperately trying to grind levels. The worst part is, now that I'm 56-57, it feels like a brick wall has been added to the progression. It seems like it's taking longer for me to even get to level 60.

If not for the fact that battlebit gives us the modern BF experience with the added benefit of proximity chat, I would have said fuck this grind and never again came back to the game.

Even prestiging in COD was more fun than this system in BBR. When you prestiged in cod, you may have started over, but it wasn't a turtle's pace to get everything back.

[simple venture]

CoD prestiging was fun because you'd do a cycle in 40-60 hours, so losing guns wasn't a huge deal since you'd get back to them fairly quick

Here the cycle is like 150-300 hours depending on how you play the game

[modern vigil]

Exactly this. If the game dies out, then the progression will be partly responsible. Hopefully that doesn't happen and the devs implement a better system though. We don't need levelling to be the sole way to unlock guns either. I mean, look at Hunt: Showdown and how you can unlock guns there. I'm sure you could copy at least some parts of that progression system to lessen the monotony of BBR's grind.

[whole wadi]

I'm definitely starting to feel the fatigue kick in. I'm at level 75 and just knowing my favorite gun is still a bit far away, especially with how slow leveling up is, feels discouraging.

[desert maple]

i'm okay with long ass progression
but BBR Grind is not engaging at all, their premise of this lengthy grind is "To rewards the higher level" but their Solution is by adding filler level in between those weapons
and the filler level exist with no reason but just to make the leveling longer, is the worst design for grinds
it gave no meaning, except to filter out which player is casual and which are sweats
it really stricten the player who just started playing

ever since from the start of me feeling burdened by this grind, all i want is just answers from the dev, maybe they have a better reason like
"The filler level are empty space for future weapon or rewards"
atleast it give us a reason why we should be fine to level up those inbetweens
but for now? is just an annoying fillers that has 0 meanig to exist

i'm not mad with rewarding the higher level, they should be rewarded, they're spending alot of hours for the game they made
but is their solution on how they're making it more lengthy to grind is what i'm bothered about

[modest imp]

One of my friends lost interest in the EA release due to the heightened grind from the already grind-to-win playtest. He said if the BattleBit devs lower progression levels (to playtest levels or even lower), he will play again. Lmao

[coarse loom]

Same with my friends

Tried a little bit, realized how long the grind is for a gun they like and stopped

[desert maple]

i want to invite my friend, but the grind will definitely push the off playing

Even me that's not 100% casual player feels burdened, my friend is a casual player, surely going to stop playing once they feel the progress is really slow

[desert maple]

Weekly Recap is ongoing, could be a chance for us to get answer

the only answer i got is that Comunity Server (partnered and Self-hosted) will not have a XP farm Exploit

[desert maple]

YOOOOO, CUSTOM SERVER COULD HAVE UNLOCK ALL MOD 🔥 🔥 🔥

[coarse loom]

so a half "solution"

[desert maple]

better than nothing atleast, and the server API is quite promising

eventually, the grind burnout will snowballed, so i doubt this grind system to ever stay forever unless the dev is keeping ear closed

[tropic halo]

But i guess that you won't be able to farm xp on such servers thus when you connect to one without unlock all mod you'll be left with nothing

Still not the best solution

[desert maple]

it is not

this is the worst progression system in any game i played (except game like genshin or others, those game are horrendously grindy, but atleast is partly engaging)
i really doubt the players would stay for a long time for this grind

[coarse loom]

Gotta love clowns in the devstream chat claiming short attention span for not wanting to do a 100 grind for a single gun

[civic gale]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-endgame-avengers-gone-ashes-gif-14019029

I really want to ping a dev

[coarse loom]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-get-to-work-gif-21630516

[fresh jackal]

Did the devs address it at all

[desert maple]

nope

[fresh jackal]

lovely

[desert maple]

this is the closest we ever had

[civic gale]

https://tenor.com/view/avgn-angry-video-game-nerd-what-were-they-thinking-what-are-they-thinking-confused-gif-17417919

[fresh jackal]

Is there an estimated release for community servers

Those voxel maps sound interesting

[desert maple]

we need more Voices in the stream chat

that sucks

they ignored

Why they're ignoring it tho?

[coarse loom]

Just like when they put the level scaling, they were not

[desert maple]

i've heard it was next week

[coarse loom]

There were a bunch of boomers and no-lifers ganging up on mokey for even asking questions about progression

[tropic halo]

Dont laugh at them! These guys need proper medical treatment due to their obsession with irrelevant things to the point where they are ok with grinding it for 100s of hr

[coarse loom]

They need medication, some grass to touch and a class on calculus

https://tenor.com/view/oh-well-shrug-hmm-idk-i-dont-know-gif-16462519

WCYD

[tropic halo]

They might've never heard of "Grass" so we shall bring the knowledge upon them

[coarse loom]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-we-cant-expect-gif-15199201

[fathom relic]

so it wasnt addressed.

[desert maple]

yeah

[fathom relic]

outstanding

[mystic stump]

Yeah, good chance I'll just quit the game alltogether. Even at just 25h the grind goes on at a snails pace and not unlocking ONE of the things I want for atleast double that amount of playtime just discourages me. Better off playing other shooters rn, as sad as it sounds.

[candid pumice]

Seems it never will be sadly.

They desperately need a community manager who can be that bridge between the devs and community and can communicate with us.

[candid pumice]

I just hit level 60, and leading up to level 54, it felt like I was making progress. After unlocking the Groza, it takes me at LEAST 3 games to even level up, and this is with me running medic and heal whoring.

[fathom relic]

if youve seen the recent reddit thread, youll notice that killing people gives 4x exp for whatever reason

[desert maple]

unless this game is out of Early access
i will never give up asking for the dev

love this game soo much

but damn

is painful to play

[desert maple]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/comments/15dil7w/why_the_devs_are_ignoring_the_question_around/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

putting my question on reddit

[tropic halo]

You know, I think that until better part of playerbase reaches their 90s this question will remain just a fart in a bottle.

[hushed adder]

The most recent dev comment about levelling I could find, to copypaste a previous message of mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/14zhjb1/comment/jrxyqc8/
"we will definitely revisit the progression down the line and fill the gaps with new weapons"
I like to have a less tedious grind as much as everyone else in these sorts of threads, but it seems to be a bit of a futile endeavor for now, especially with the recent focus on community servers. https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBitRemastered/comments/15cwocs/battlebit_weekly_recap_7292023_ft_sgtokidoki/
Maybe we'll get lucky enough for it to be addressed within a month or 2, alongside other prevalent issues, but I wouldn't hold my tongue on it.

[gaunt granite]

i got one of my friend bought the game and he started playing from last weekend, he got to lvl 15 yesterday and AK15 unlocked and he's already tired of grinding, makes me feel little bit guilty of inviting him to play

[tropic halo]

yeah, I've had the same experience with a friend of mine. He played for 25 hr and said bb to game due to grind

[coarse loom]

the comments under this post is pure clownery

although the post itself is a bit lacking

you can't expect people on reddit to use their brains so you have to provide some evidence

people who haven't reached to steepest part of the curve have no idea what's ahead so they can say dumb shit like "It's fine I'm at level 74" etc.

[flint path]

Why would your friend buy a game just to be concerned about leveling up why doesn't your friend buy a game just to play it for fun

[coarse loom]

sigh

dandy why are you even still here?

honestly

[flint path]

Because I'm taking a poop and I'm bored

[coarse loom]

so the neighbour's annoying kid approach

[coarse loom]

I'm not sure if I even want to explain to you what you're missing here

cause I'm 90% sure you are just gonna say "just have fun"

[tropic halo]

Well, for the 100th time ill try to explain this to you. He bought the game, we're having fun, this shite is so chaotic, enjoyment blah blah blah etc. And at some point around 20 hr he's like "Bro, im tired of playing with the same guns that i already hate and i have no alternatives" And im like "Yeah man, 30 more hr with your ranking pace and you'll see new cool guns"

[flint path]

The M4A1 The gun you start out with is a really good gun so I don't know why he would say that and as far as getting attachments tell him that he has to actually kill people to get attachments

[languid ether]

Where are attachments mentioned?

[tropic halo]

Did you even read what i've said? He is tired of using the same guns thus he he hates them. It's not about how good they are, It's about having no alternatives for 50 hr

I have 1k kills with SCAR. It's a great weapon, but i hate it because im tired of using it

Capisce?

[coarse loom]

It's almost as if you do not read any replies to you it's infuriating

Toxic positivity is a thing

[tropic halo]

Yeah, It's called ignorance

[coarse loom]

You can't tell a person who is just bored of using the M4 "Hey it's good though"

[desert maple]

you're completely ignoring all our reasoning

[coarse loom]

That's not the reason he's bored of the m4

[somber glacier]

Especially if the gaps these fill are post level 150 making it moot
Wish we could see official stats of where players are at as a whole

[desert maple]

while your intention is good, but your lack of empathy isn't helping at all

[coarse loom]

Lack of empathy is one thing

He's just not reading replies

Just spouting his points over and over again

Then is suprised when people are mad at him

[coarse loom]

I had around 750 kills on my sv98 before finally unlocking L96

this is some fucked progression system

[tropic halo]

He is a fucking phoenix. Every time we are mad at him hes like " 'Aight imma head out you guys are not friendly" And after a few days he is fucking back at it.

[coarse loom]

only people who are legitimately delusional or pathetic no-lifers would defend this

I'd make a reddit post but I don't want to deal with those idiot's toxic positivity or dumbass attitudes either

[desert maple]

well, atleast he can make this place a bit more active

[fathom relic]

finally some activity

[somber glacier]

Oki made a system for grinders and forgets not everyone is a 24/7 grinder like he is for programming

[desert maple]

true, my main point is just why the dev isn't answering

[coarse loom]

Feedback channel has been altered ever since the "official feedback threads" got posted

this thread is basically burried now

[desert maple]

but venting at the sametime basically

[coarse loom]

yea bad idea to do that towards reddit clowns

[fathom relic]

the best way i think is to get the attention from the devs are through streamers, since theyre actively listening to them

[coarse loom]

the comments under the post were some incredible display of dumbassery ngl

[tropic halo]

I don't think that it's just about no-lifeing. There are games with lots of grind. Like Souls games or some Terraria etc. But grind there feels natural and not tiresome due to good game design. Here you must be delusional and no-lifer at the same time

[fathom relic]

that or a REALLY good post gets trending in reddit

[coarse loom]

why would I streamer care about the progression though

they are already no-lifers

[fathom relic]

one can hope

[somber glacier]

I think it's a 2 part issue, some classes are way better at generating exp, while the grind itself is absurd

[tropic halo]

Yeah, I've checked it and amount of copium there is just unbearable

[somber glacier]

Ex getting 200 XP a support box

[desert maple]

exactly, again, i'm fine the way it is, is just how they design the grind system is bad

the way they do is just "Add 4 levels and demand more XP"