TANKS' LOW AMMO COUNTS PROMOTE MORE CAMPING

[nimble pendant]

?

[graceful oak]

The fact you look at that list and it concerns you lmao

[nimble pendant]

Not exacly, some of them are, some not

[graceful oak]

Yes because some are clearly QOL

[zinc sonnet]

It concerns some part, the other half is somewhat good

Some aspects of it is just useless

[nimble pendant]

It would be significant change, and impactfull one for sure. Not drastic. Drastic would be like 50%

[nimble pendant]

For example?

[graceful oak]

then perhaps give some actual discussion lmao

[zinc sonnet]

You need to highlight that its "some"

[graceful oak]

It's very obvious which are QOL

[zinc sonnet]

Sure so
1, No, tandem is fine, its hard to use, has shit range, difficulty grows over distance.

2. Good but Engineer needs it, not support who is a defender role, not sniper who is sitting 50 kilometers away, a complete potassium maniach needs it like engy.

3, Why? You can't really be offensive with em, if you then that's a yolo moment that is risky.

4, good, not every flags but maybe centre flags or flags that are closer to the center, paying with squad points maybe to repair and refill ammo.

5, why? What aim punch? Did tanks and APCs had aimpunch?

6, yes, though apc needs a full rework in terms of everything except sound maybe.

7, why? No, they are fine.

8, no, they are fine as they are

9, logic breaks with this one, though i can agree loading from x shell to y shell already so long that you loose your opportunity on the target

Now imma go to sleep sorry, its 5 am

[nimble pendant]

1. Tandem deals too much dmg to justify it being avalibe to everyone, potentialy to every one of 254 players in a game. It's needs to be toned down in damage or restricted in avalibility, like squad does with HAT. And it's not hard to use. Game offers you multitude of way to shoot at a tank from below 50m, if you can't that on you.
2. Engineer have tandems, heat, AT mines and Anti vehicle grenades. It doesn't need another AT option to have up to 3 at once. Breaching charge for demolition would be sufficient. At best C4 in place of rpg
3. Idk what do you mean tbh
4. Yes,
5. YES they have "aim punch" hits from RPG shake the whole vehicles, even after bug "fixes" that oki did months ago. And apc spins when hit by other apc enough times. There is aimpuch and it is terrible
6. Totally agree here
7. Not right now, not for that amount of players. Vehicles struggle to have any meaningfull presence in game. If there isn't a very good player, that can keep vehicle alive for a full game, vehicles spend easily 70% of game in base respawning. For multitude of reasons, making respawn shorter would fix this issue a little. A bandaid solution, but welcomed one.
8. No, it is basically wallhack, that can be present as long as you can click middle mouse button. You see current position of a vehicle through walls/terrain. You can even shoot at them accuratly through smoke, which should cover them when deployed.
9. 6 second reload works well in this game. 12 seconds is too much and limits flexibility too much. If you have HE ready and want to shoot at a jeep, you need 12s to change to AP, and then another 12 s to change to HE. 24s, neraly half a minute. Too much for game as fast and dynamic as current battlebit

[graceful oak]

1. You're wrong, the tandem warps the entire balance on its own. It crowds out other RPGs, forces vehicles to play at longer ranges, doubling down on poor ground v inf, as these vehicles are no longer really affected by RPGs. This also pushes vehicles outside their optimum effective range. It zones APCs entirely by its sheer existance, as taking minimum 13 damage is now asking for instant death, because of this teamwork to take down vehicles is at a bare minimum. This isn't even factoring in playing vehicles on small, narrow maps and maps with verticality - frugis for example. There's also no communication from game to server about what RPG someone is using, until they hit or miss you.

2. Engineer doesn't need C4, they have RPGs and if they want C4 it should replace RPG, not doubling down on explosives.

3. Because it makes the game completely inconsistent, there's no communication from the game to player as to what any number of gadgets the 5 different classes could be using. Additionally C4 turns every class into an anti vehicle class, where they have no business being one i.e medic.

4. The sizing of maps makes putting them at specific flags a balance issue for tank v tank combat, it's also a reward for helping your team cap flags and moving forward in the map and taking control.

5. Yes, aimpunch is your vehicle moving on its own, without your input, from explosives. This is especially egrigious for APCs, which can do 180s, 360s, run up building walls etc

7. No they're not, this game is arcade gameplay and currently vehicles are extremely fragile and there's almost zero teamplay to using vehicles. Having new or bad players get in your vehicles is extremely punishing for your team. The respawn time length isn't even remotely in line with the gameplay speed or their effectiveness

8. No it's not fine, there's no communication to being spotted, there's no map for tanks yet 3D spotting exists for them because(?) there's no effective counterplay either, while also invalidating your singular countermeasure, smoke.

9. Logic doesn't break, the changing of shells is extremely long, 10s for MBT, this speed doesn't match the gameplay speed and nor does it feel good, or is cohesive for tank v tank

10. Couldn't include this because of character limit - the apcs and tanks are forced to play as glorified snipers, not indicative of tank gameplay or what balanced tank gameplay looks like or should be

Honestly, you seem like you don't play vehicles at all or even remotely use vehicles well. Points 1 and 5 were dead giveaways to this

[nimble pendant]

I am supprised how close we are in our responses lol

As if the problems were real and easy to identify

[nimble pendant]

To offensive man, to harsh, just like your original message. If you want to discuss/give feedback you need to be more soft on words, to not come as very demending and disrespectfull (even if you are)

That makes your ideas less appealing to others, especially when they don't agree with you from the start

And people tend to ignore such agruments when they feel offended/attacked. Ignore or even duble down on thier own ideas.

@analog igloo what do you think about all this above?

[nimble pendant]

Yeah, I have to agree, "aim punch" or shaking, in vehicles is very common and obvious. It's impossible to don't know about this while playing them.
Especially in APC case when it's spinns when shoot by RPG or other APC.

Unless he just totally misunderstood becouse of the way you phrased it

[analog igloo]

Response to LIFEBD:

1. Yes and no, the problem of RPG tandem doesn't lie on its power, the problem is maps are so poorly designed that longer range rocket like HEAT were completely outclassed by tandem because range is irrelevent in close quarter combat
2. As much as I hate it, I think engineer still needs C4, but only engineer and assault should get c4. Those are specialist and spearheaded classes respectively, no reason to give other classes c4 beside these 2 classes.
3. Agree
4. Agree
5. Agree
7. Agree...
8. Agree...
9. As far as I'm concerned, switching shell should either be long or not exist at all, I agree that switching shells are complete irrelevence since tank v tank combat simply result in either one being totally surprised or 2 drive home with fatal hp. But that issues fall under the unfairness of vehicle damage system, not balancing or annoyance.
10. I agree...

To be fair all they could have do is rework their shitty maps and nerf HEAT

as well as remove c4 from non specialist and spearheaded classes, aka engineer and assault

[nimble pendant]

Heat is okay though. Fist days when no one had tandem were peak of vehicle gameplay.

[analog igloo]

The problem is tank v tank combat are so worthless and pointless you have to question yourself why you're doing it

[nimble pendant]

Maps are issue though

[analog igloo]

HEAT is all rounder, I'm not talking about anti vehicles specifically

[nimble pendant]

Ah yes, that's right

It's outperformes frag rpg at being frag rpg

[analog igloo]

"Uhmm lemme just tighten up objectives and forcing people to round up and get executed by tanks easier from afar cuz why buff tanks and apcs" - Vilaskis

literally like nobody asked for objectives to be smaller

[nimble pendant]

I don't think he took vehicles into consideration when making this decision lol

I think he works on "infantry only" mindset

If vehicles weren't a thing in this game, this change would be good tbh

[analog igloo]

literally bro said "that should improve user experience on CONQ and frontline gamemode"

👏🏻

devs are ruining conquest

[analog igloo]

devs never think about vehicles

[nimble pendant]

Yes, becouse conquest have this problem when you can take over a point when a single enemy sits in one out of 20 buildings inside cap zone, and you can't find motherfucket

Making cap zone smaller is solution to that.

A bandaid one, but still some solution

[analog igloo]

ye it makes infantry more vulnerable, not vehicles become stronger lmao

[nimble pendant]

True

Now, it's 6 am in land of Po's, so I am going to sleep,

[analog igloo]

all they could have do is up tanks ammo improve the shitty HE sight add coax and remove shitty filter for APCs as well as improve their shitty accuracy, and everybody will be fine

[nimble pendant]

Good night gentleman, today discussion was a nice one

[analog igloo]

really bro stayed that long?

Quite unhealthy ngl

have a nice sleep

[nimble pendant]

Yes, wake up on 15 go to sleep on 6

Holidays tho

[nimble pendant]

Thanks

[zinc sonnet]

1, when i play as a tank or APC, APC is weaker BUT faster, but still harder to manoeuvre.
I had shit ton situations where two squads of engineers + a tank, wanted our tank crew to be dead on valley, they shot with AP shells, Tandems, Heats, consecutively, we pull off a fire retreat on an unfavorable terrain to us, be cause we had to go back through a valley where enemy tank and 2 squads of engis had the upper hand.
I don't think tanks needs 50k health or tandems should fire 10 damage, right now i feel like they are balanced.
Like I don't know if you guys even play as a vehicle hunter engy, those three rockets you need a huge back pack = slows you down, the tandems can travel 250m, you can kill one tank with it or one APC, though its really hard to go behind the vehicle to actually shoot the Weakpoint, you load in tandems very slowly too, alone you can't shoot a tank, also you need to call down multiple supply boxes for the rounds to refill.
Just to add to the statement, APC hitbox registration is messed up, even if you heat the week spot with anything you might only get it hit as a regular hit, because the hit reg is so shit.

2, those AT mines can't even kill an APC if the APC goes into all of them.
They are really weak.

3, with C4 you can't be that offensive, since your AV mines are weak but automatic, you can use C4 which is stronger but manual to use, and if the servers had a stroke it can be possible that the vehicle hitbox ghosted and you missed the vehicle, who was just going through your c4s.

5, aggree, i thought you meant tanks having them, yeah APC physics are total trash.

7, tank ain't fragile but slow, APC is fragile but fast.

[analog igloo]

tandem is fine except tanks are forced to fight literally like Chechnya to the point where tandem ranges dont matter

[zinc sonnet]

Yeah

I mean tank have he

They destroy some roofs and advance

But not gonna lie a TOW wire guided missile would be hot for the tank

A way to precisely shoot moving vehicles

[analog igloo]

tanks need to stop be shit on by random C4 and RPG first before TOW

right now it's in the gray zone between shit and normal

[zinc sonnet]

Level design is the funniest factor

[analog igloo]

The reverse speed is horrendously abysmal, its biggest downfall

you have to turn your back to escape which is fucking stupid

[zinc sonnet]

What's the reverse speed of the two tank irl?

[analog igloo]

Abrams: 30 km/h
T90: 5 km/h

In this game it's like 10 I assume

[zinc sonnet]

I usually strategically press Q and retreat when i feel like i am being surrounded by engies

Ngl the smoke speed cool down could be reduced to 15 or 20 seconds from 30.

[analog igloo]

there shouldn't be smoke cool down but rather 2 giant smoke screen

Rn smoke is literally a big fart

it can't conceal anything

[zinc sonnet]

And increase coaxial from 30 to 50-60 because you have a lot of of em and its a joke that its 30 rnd cap

[analog igloo]

Lmao right

Or there shouldn't be coax mag system, one giant belt is enough

[zinc sonnet]

You don't even run out of them

[analog igloo]

I dont think there's a thing call coax spam, literally wont affect any of the gameplay

why coax mag?

[zinc sonnet]

Idk

Like 7m as it should be

[analog igloo]

exactly

[nimble pendant]

1. The problem with tandem is that it literally makes APC weaker than it should be. One shot deals 87 dmg. That's a lot, it's make vehicle go in "critical" condition. Returning to base for repairs is necessary at that point. But there is alwasy a lot of them, too much even. And maps are quite small, and always have a lot of players near objectives. APC can't sit on hills 300m away due to its accuracy, and maps are madi in a way that using mobility only works properly on one map, Multuislands, which will be reworked soon.
   Taking ANY damage in apc from the source other than tandem, results in it one shoting you. Literally. Tank AP, HE, HEAT or other APC, it needs to hit you 7 times which isn't hard. And there is no way to mitigate that, helath degradation makes it imposible ro repair above 87hp when hit, making repair tool useless.
   And it's not like tandem hits are rare, no, it's easy to do, when you are clos to the target, which is easy to achive on current maps, and happens a lot. A lot of players knows that it works and do so.
   All of that makes APC retreat to main after being shot ONCE by ANYTHING. That's not a good gameplay. Not fun too.

Making tandem deal less damage, and decrinsing harshness of helt degeneration would help with that. Removing tandem and buffing AT mines would be perfect solution imo, becouse 3 shot needed to kill APC work well. It makes playing as one better expirience, and allows for more aggresive plays. And it makes it much less propable that one player will destroy armour, which is currently very common and again, bad game design if one player can destroy asset serving as power multiplier with 4 min respawn timer in 10 seconds, without luck or a lot of skill.

2. Yeah, AT mines are weak, and it should stay that way, for now at leats. AT in this game is just too good. Having another good option would make for armour expirience to be even worse. Between Tandems, C4 and Anti-V grenades having another one is just too much

Especially when player could take mines, tandem, and Anti-V grenades, it would allow for destruction of few vehicles to one person, math wise, which is a terrible idea where there is 254 players on map

[nimble pendant]

3. Yes, you can't. But still, not everyone should have option to destroy 2 APC'S or one Tank. In the contrary, only engi should be close to that, especially when we have 254 players on map. Current C4 implementation make it so recon can be ass efective at AT as engineer, in good situation, which happens a lot more than one would think.

[nimble pendant]

5. Tanks also have it, but rarer and less intense. Still, it is possible for RPG to hit and slow down a tank, or turn it around a little

[maiden ridge]

hits you in your IFC's weak spot and oneshots you

fun

good thing vehicle weak spots are glitched otherwise it would happen so often

[nimble pendant]

7. APC isn't really fast, it's second slowest, and yes it's fragile as fuck. And there is the weak spot. Which means that RPG HEAT can literally one shot you, and potentially 8 other passengers. That means dealing 250% of damage, in seemengly easy to hit place, becouse I blow up to this much more ofter recently.
   Add to that complete lack of awerness apc has and you have extremely underwheling vehicle that can use its speed properly on one map, that will be buthered (reworked) very soon

[maiden ridge]

As far as I know IFC weak spot is the black horizontal thing it has, but hitting it isn't very consistent.

I think the other IFC model also has a different weak spot on the other side but I've only hit it like once.

[nimble pendant]

Which one is BTR?

[maiden ridge]

idk I'd have to check wait five minutes.

[nimble pendant]

Oh, and I forgot. RPG have splash damage. That's makes tandem even more OP because you don't need to be accurate now, you can miss by 5 meters and still deal full damage

[maiden ridge]

Ok so, weak spot for left is that black cylinder thing in the right side. Weak spot for right is I believe that horizontal gray thing sticking out in the back left side.

[nimble pendant]

Thank you very much man

You are GOAT

[maiden ridge]

it's inconsistent and unless you're hitting them with tank AP it's pretty much pure luck whether it counts as a weakspot hit or not.

And even with tank AP it's inconsistent.

[analog igloo]

zamn

[zinc sonnet]

Ok and?

[analog igloo]

tandem isnt the issue the issue is the map

[zinc sonnet]

Yes

[nimble pendant]

And it makes the experience of playing terrible, becouse you can in reality be hit only once, and staying after more than that is extreme risk with no reward, so there is no high risk high reward argument here. That's just bad gameplay, which shouldn't have place in any game.

[nimble pendant]

For tank? yes. For APC? No, tandem is issue, it presence alone is punishing, because, and I will repeat myself here, after any hit you need RTB or risk being oneshotted. Again, bad gameplay design to alow something like that in arcade game, with no way to mitigate that, becouse due to helth degeneration repair tool is useless

Going back to base 4 times in a row becouse of getting hit before even engaging enemy is possible and that hapend to me

And it's not FUN nor balanced

Tank can easily take 2 tandems unless it's in the rear. APC can take one and then it needs RTB, with 13 hp mind you

And burning, which deals damage over time

And also keep in mind that there is more than dozen tandems on map, and that number increses when you do well and players want you gone

[maiden ridge]

don't worry bro after the devs are done making skins for their favorite streamers they will fix all the vehicle issues. any day now!!!

[analog igloo]

Yes and no, they need to fix the flexibility of APC and not tanking its health to cope with tandem, it needs to turn better to not get hit by tandem

APC survivability should be based on speed and turnability

[nimble pendant]

And smoke, but it doesn't have them, even tho it has dispensers modeled

And 3D spot exists

But it still be problem becouse of sheer amount avalibe, so either limit it or make repairing on field worthwile

which it is currently not

[analog igloo]

well APC has many major issues

you could make a DOD report about it and it still won't end

don't worry bro after the devs are done making skins for their favorite streamers they will fix all the vehicle issues. any day now!!!

[nimble pendant]

I mean, i could write an essay about 2 pages long on APC alone

Excluding c4 and map issues

[maiden ridge]

I really don't want to play this game anymore until they fix this shit.

[nimble pendant]

Not only iritating and game breaking rpg splash damage, also guy takes shots to face and still is fairly accurate

We need supresion

[maiden ridge]

btw the number of "teammates" trying to grief you by sticking C4 to your vehicle is increasing.

[nimble pendant]

That's why you never play without nividia recap

Though i doubt mods count that as griefing

It's against vehicles so it is fair

Lol

[maiden ridge]

most of the time you can't know who did it because they stick C4 in the back

but it's still really stupid. can't even leave to shoot it out or your vehicle explodes

[nimble pendant]

W8

That may explain why i die to single RPG'S very often

[maiden ridge]

possible.

[nimble pendant]

If someone sticks 3 bricks of c4 on to vehicle, and enemy triggers it with RPG then it counts as enemy kill with rpg right?

Or it counts as enemy kill with C4?

[maiden ridge]

good question.

it's also possible you die to single rpgs because apc weakspot is dogshit broken.

[nimble pendant]

True

That's also possible

[graceful oak]

tandem is 100% the issue, it crowds out literally every other RPG and if you nerf it, it simply won't be worth taking either. Quite literally feast or famine design, it's currently 'feast' since the damage is ridiculous but nerfing the damage to be in a balanced state instantly makes it 'famine', aka abyssmal design that's extremely unhealthy. The only real solution to the tandem is simply deleting it

[nimble pendant]

Right, if it's damage would be lowered, HEAT will be better choice due to better accuracy, ease of use and versitility.

To nerf tandem and make it still viable, Frag should be buffed, HEAT nerfed in AT and inf damage, but keeping it's destruction potential the same

so heat would be flexible middleground in everything+very good destruction

[maiden ridge]

just remove tandem easy

[analog igloo]

3 frag 3 heat 3 tandem there you go

easy choices required substantial thinking skill

also remove the splash damage ffs

[nimble pendant]

Anyway, today they will butcher Multu

I can't wait for it

[graceful oak]

Deleting the tandem is the only real way, the only conceivable nerf would be reducing the carry amount to 1, one single shot high damage RPG. Problem is dying as inf for so many players is extremely easy and the amount of tandems would be a similar amount to what there already is.

Simple and best solutions is to delete it. Taking out an APC only requires 3 rpgs and a tank it can vary. Removing the tandem increases squad play and teamwork, not just brute forcing deaths

[hidden acorn]

Dont forget the fact that if you get hit with an RPG in a APC, your vehicle will spin out of control, like literally spin around like a top. it makes it exceedingly hard to recover from getting shot even once in a hectic situation in an APC.

Right now unless you literally have a wall of infantry running a screen for you it's useless to do anything with the vehicles aside from camping up in a hill somewhere. When you have at least 3/4 of the enemy team running c4 or RPGs, you just get utterly disintegrated if you go anywhere even remotely urban. If a single infantry pops out of no where and within two-three seconds drops c4 to kill you your force multiplier is useless.

The biggest instance you'll see this in is Frugis, I rarely see tanks brought out anymore. The APCs get used a little bit because of their splash damage, but with the limited ammo, and the ammo reloads, they still get torn to pieces before getting more than a few kills. The vehicles on that map are just too fragile since c4/rpgs will come out of every rathole around.

Its a flaw in that every class is capable of being a monster of an AT trooper, c4 is just too valuable in manipulating the environment to not carry. Mines are okay but with their nerf people just use c4 instead on every class if they can.

[analog igloo]

if you're in an APC and you get hit by a rocket you enter an orbit around the shooter

[maiden ridge]

Frugis has like two spots you can go with a tank without dying lol. Going anywhere else means you die. And you also have to cover those two spots with claymores which can be a problem because people can steal your tank while you do this.

[analog igloo]

best map design

[nimble pendant]

I suppose roof is one of them?

[nimble pendant]

Not only way, but definitely the easiest, the best, the most efficient and definitely the most welcomed one

[hidden acorn]

I know that Oki said he wants to keep the game focused on infantry and avoid a vehicle meta at all cost, but the limited ammo reload times, and vehicle respawn time already do that without having tanks be glass cannons. Being a tank that is terrified to see any and every infantry just doesnt feel right. Force multipliers should multiply your force, not make you run in terror from infantry.

[nimble pendant]

Exactly, tank is much smaller threat to infantry than infantry to a tank. They are first and foremost an annoyance for inf players, a chellenge and obstacle later.

[analog igloo]

lmao tanks and APCs are ironically the most skill based asset ingame

you have to dodge rpgs and c4 more often

[nimble pendant]

nah, armed heli is fist. But armour, especially APC is close second

Funny enough, thier skill floor is as high as thier skill celling

[analog igloo]

helis are the least likely to get shot at

but once you score a hit: bye bye

[nimble pendant]

Unless heli takes 4 dmg from apc per shot and only 45 from tank...

Not so much of a : bye bye

[desert shore]

Doesn't help that all the classes have access to c4

3 c4 and kaboom

From what I've seen the best tank players who get the most kills aren't actually leaving the spawn area and instead get into meta spots that have a good sight range and just shell buildings that typically have alot of players. Or using the map to approximate where the enemy is based on where your own team is dying.

The ways in which tanks and apcs can get blown up atm is pretty oppressive to people who just want to play something other than infantry. Also on Valley and Sandy the amount of camping that happens at the points directly outside spawn really adds to the amount of camping that tanks tend to do.

I like the idea of seperating c4 into ones that do damage only to buildings and ones that do damage to vehicles. Maybe restrict the vehicle damage c4 to engineer or assault/support?

[lilac sigil]

If you want vehicles to play less campy, you need to make camping a less safe/rewarding option. One way to do that would be to reduce spawn territory size, so players can't camp in a safe zone while still having a line of sight on the objective or even flanks to the objective. Another would be to let players attack in enemy territory, but have them revealed on the map like in Frontlines. If you can't kill a player when you essentially have a a map hack, that's on you.

[severe willow]

That’s just a nerf to tanks, not a solution. But camping in the spawn zone usually isn’t practical anyway

[lilac sigil]

That's only a nerf to tanks camping in their spawn territory. It's also a nerf to snipers camping in their spawn territory.

Everyone else is unaffected.

[severe willow]

It doesn’t fix the problem whatsoever. Tanks staying in their spawn zone isn’t really a problem as they don’t do much from there

[lilac sigil]

The spawn zone prevents players from getting up close and flanking.
Having played on Valley and that snow map, there's always at least one degenerate that camps in/near their territory, and runs back for armour as soon as a single rocket hits. All of this is enabled by an arbitrary game mechanic that was put in place to prevent spawn-killing.

[analog igloo]

lemme just discourage armored vehicles to go out and actually do something for the team

[maiden ridge]

We wouldn't need to camp spawn zone if every single player didn't have access to 2s TTK C4 and 5m splash range tandem.

And spawn zones aren't even safe anyway you can go inside them and still be able to use secondaries like C4 for some stupid reason.

btw looks like they nerfed tanks again which is exactly what we needed.

[nimble pendant]

It either will not change anything, just remove option to go on roofs. Or Oki will fuck up and they won't work at all

[analog igloo]

are you serious

[nimble pendant]

That's just punishing camping while keeping current situation the same. If you want to reduce camping you need to incentivese players to do anything else than it and reward them for doing so. Not punish them for getting closer to objectives like game does it right now. Your "idea" punishes only viable way to play armour that's left and doesn't presents any alternatives to it.

[analog igloo]

ye dude we wouldn't need to camp if vehicles aren't shitty my dude

[lilac sigil]

Armour keeping distance from the objective isn't the same as Armour sitting in an area that is literally unreachable by the enemy team because of a one-sided kill barrier. If you think that hovering in or near spawn is the only viable way to play Armour, then that is literally a skill issue.

I understand wanting to increase stored ammo on Tanks/BTRs because running back is annoying. However, whenever you make a change in the game, you need to think about all the different ways it will impact the game. You who loves to play aggressive will get buffed, but so will the twat sitting in spawn if no other changes are made.

---

• Nerf territory protection
• Either increase stock ammo or add resupply stations to each objective
• Let engineer repair any vehicle from the inside if they have repair tool.

The only way to currently buff armour without making any big fundamental changes to the game would be to place a vehicle resupply station inside each objective.

This would give players a way to keep fighting without running back to spawn while also doing absolutely nothing to those already sitting there.

[nimble pendant]

You can't nerf territory protection. It is there for a reason. Unless you are in Safe Zone, which always is in a place protected by terrain you still can take damage. Player's can't enter there to make spawn camping impossible. Decresing teritory protection area would allow for spawn camping.

Also making players/vehicles unable to fire from it would have terrible consequences. On nearly every map first point is right next to team zone, conquesting those points, without this space, with need get further towards the point would make it extremely easy for enemies at point to just camp the border and kill players.

It works currently and territory protection doesn't need changes

You alredy can have 5-10 minutes battles for first point.

[lilac sigil]

I want everyone to be able to fire from it. Just like in Frontline.

[nimble pendant]

I didn't said that sitting in safe zone is only viable way to play. Don't take things out of your ass.

I just said that limiting and discuraging any form of camping is harmfull to the game because rignt now there is no alternative to that

[lilac sigil]

The main base already serves as a safe zone. Add in a 3-5 second buffer from the main safe zone to player territory that cancels on fire, and you won't have to worry about spawn camping.

[nimble pendant]

You still would

[lilac sigil]

I never said I had an issue with camping on its own. Don't take things out of your ass.

[nimble pendant]

Imo currently safe zone mechanic is propably the best way it was inplemented. Yet you still can confine enemy team to it if you want

[lilac sigil]

If the only viable way to play a game is to camp, then it's a shit game.

[nimble pendant]

I didn't said it either tho

[lilac sigil]

Neither of us did. Let's move on then.

[lilac sigil]

I disagree with this notion.

[nimble pendant]

Yes. Exactly. Welcome to armour gameplay in battlebit

[lilac sigil]

There's plenty of ways to camp without utilizing the safe zone.

But the safe zone method doesn't have much counter play. It overall harms the game.

[lilac sigil]

I think that with the exception of sustainability, armor in BattleBit is braindead fun.

[nimble pendant]

No one "camps" in safe zone. It is too far from any combat to camp there. People use it as cover, rightfully, when enemy controlls first point.

[lilac sigil]

Snagging a tank or BTR is like 10+ guaranteed kills unless you play out of position.

[lilac sigil]

People camp in spawn territory.

[nimble pendant]

Nope. Bugs, lack of basic functions, terrible physics,

[nimble pendant]

There are maybe two maps on which you could do that, Waki and Azagor

I don't think other maps are small enough or offer good enough LoS to do that

[lilac sigil]

BTRs camp on that snow map all the time to shoot at F or A.

And tanks love sitting back in Valley when you attack A or E.

[nimble pendant]

Shooting at players that controll the fist point, from blue zone, isn't camping there

[lilac sigil]

The issue isn't that they can sit there and engage. The issue is that they cannot be reached.

[nimble pendant]

And geting outside blue zone, when enemies control first point is basically suciside

[lilac sigil]

At that point, you might as well not fight for A or F and just designate that as enemy territory.

[nimble pendant]

They can? If they shoot at you, that means they aren't in Safe zone. That means you can shoot back at them.

Both vehicles and players

[lilac sigil]

Can't C4 it. Tandem rockets have less range than tanks.

Even if you can sneak up on the tank, you can't kill it because the game literally won't let you.

You shouldn't be able to camp for free.

[nimble pendant]

If you are in the first point, tanks inside territory protection will be inside your range.

And you can C4 them, C4 works there.

[lilac sigil]

Or a tank will shoot them from afar, and they will retreat because there is no-one to catch them in their panicked little dance.

[lilac sigil]

If C4 works, then that's good. Weapons and rockets should too.

and vehicles

[nimble pendant]

Well, they are confined to sitting in safe zone, becouse your team does too well and capped last objective so it's fair. Or do you want to kill people at spwn?

[maiden ridge]

sounds like you just want to spawn camp people lol

you can't let people shoot inside other team's zone in these garbage maps.

[nimble pendant]

You can shoot at enemies in blue zone. You can blow up vehicles in blue zone. You can damage vehicles in blue zone. You just can't enter there for morw than 10s. Which is FAIR becouse THIS IS THIER SPAWN.

[lilac sigil]

It's either that or have players camp in zones to get free kills at OBJ.

[lilac sigil]

If the counter play is limited because of an arbitrary zone, then it's not fair play.

It's certainly not fun.

Unless you're the one in armor.

[nimble pendant]

Not free kills, if you shoot at enemies at nearst obj. Then it is contesting it

[lilac sigil]

Then it's like sniping. Shooting fish in a barrel.

[nimble pendant]

THIS IS FUCKING SPAWN MAN

You really want to spawn kill peole man

[lilac sigil]

Even if the players brought in a tank, you still can run back and heal the second you take damage.

It's not the same.

[lilac sigil]

No, it's your territory. Your spawn zone is way back in your base.

Frontline has a decent idea. Reveal players in Territory, but they can still attack.

[nimble pendant]

It is a spwan zone. If you can shoot enemies in it you basically won. Making it worse for defenders limits thier ablitiy to make comeback.

[maiden ridge]

you know what's not fun? getting hit by a rocket that lands 5m in front of you but still taking full damage from it without even it making a sound or explosion. Or getting killed by a medic, the healing support class with the highest self-sustain and run speed in the game having access to a 2s TTK silent kill C4 in his pocket.

Change those two things and you won't have a problem with vehicles being in their territory anymore, because then we'll actually be able to leave it lol.

[lilac sigil]

Players seem to have the opposite experience where they'll have multiple direct tandem hits and no kill.

Your first could be a ping issue, or it's a legitimate one.

But your second is a skill issue.

Don't let players get close.

If you have 3 men in the tank, no-one should ever get close.

[maiden ridge]

"skill issue" you don't even have play armor.

[lilac sigil]

If you don't, don't go near foliage.

[maiden ridge]

You can literally throw C4 above obstacles and kill a tank from behind cover and there's nothing he can do.

You can throw C4 from BELOW the bridge in tensatown and kill a tank there.

[lilac sigil]

I actually do. It's how I got my K/D from a 1.9 to a 2.0 lmao.

Easiest kills of my life.

[maiden ridge]

And half the maps in this game encourage you to camp because they have tons of buidings you can throw C4 out of, and no amount of people in tank crew will stop it.

[lilac sigil]

Blow up the buildings. Play with your team.

[nimble pendant]

Ss of your favorite vehicle in stats screen pls

[maiden ridge]

ok bro hope you spend the entire match blowing up all the lonovo buildings lol

have fun

[lilac sigil]

It seems to me that you feel like you're entitled to your kills and survival.

[lilac sigil]

I haven't played in a good week, but thats definitely the Little Bird lmao.
Is there a breakdown of how many kills vs deaths within a vehicle?

There isn't.

[nimble pendant]

For the sake of clarity, what do you want to be changed about team territory and why? I kinda lost the point of convo.

[lilac sigil]

I want Territory outside the actual spawn to be a buffer where players are essentially just revealed and maybe have a 30 second time limit.

It should be enough to prevent players from camping in enemy spawn while still allowing them to punish enemies camping in enemy spawn.

[nimble pendant]

So, even if there is no mechanic to reveal position of enemies in the game (frontline is exeption here, and still it shows them in your territory) you want enemy territory reveal thier position to thier enemies? When they are in thier own "safe space"?

[lilac sigil]

Nonono.

Player A is in Territory B.
Player A is revealed to Team B.

However, now Player A can attack and roam Territory B for 30 seconds or indefinitely.

[potent summit]

This sounds like a great way to turn an already mediocre system into an even worse one

[lilac sigil]

If Team B cannot kill player A when they are revealed, then Team B deserves it lmao.

[potent summit]

Are there maps where you can actually do anything worthwhile from this safe space? I haven't found them yet

[lilac sigil]

It's sacrifice that has to be made because some people like to abuse safety mechanics for others.

[lilac sigil]

I love camping as Recon with 20x in Wakistan on both Territories and Conquest.

[potent summit]

I said anything wortwhile

Not being a oxygen thief

[lilac sigil]

See, that's the thing.

There's fucking oxygen thiefs littered throughout this game.

And they need to be punished.

[potent summit]

But really though, what maps can you sit inside the safe area and actually see any of the points and mount a reasonable yet safe attack from them from the safety of the zone?

[lilac sigil]

Basra is another shining example.

Recon camping back on Construction shooting towards flanks and OBJ.

[potent summit]

Yeah construction is just a dumb map, Vilaskis really knows how to design a winner

[lilac sigil]

That snow map, BTR likes to camp on that one little island shooting at A or F.

Forgot which one.

It's in a safe zone, so you can't even sneak up and c4 it before the kill barrier gets you.

[potent summit]

Isles? I've occasionally seen someone hang out on that little island right outside the carriers

[lilac sigil]

Gotta coordinate a few rockets to hit em simultaneously or they run back for more.

[lilac sigil]

Yeah yeah yeah, that's the one.

There's this other map, forgot what it's called.

[potent summit]

Are they doing anything useful on that island though? It sounds like you literally have their only resupply on the Island on lockdown, are they supposed to just drive into you and die?

If we lose our land resupply on Isle, I just exit the vehicle and fight them on foot

[lilac sigil]

I wouldn't mind them sitting there, if it wasn't for the fact that the game prevents us from punishing them.

[potent summit]

How are you not punishing them? They literally cannot play the game...

Because of the way the map is set up, you have their only resupply on the island on lockdown, and its entirely surrounded by terrain where you can pop up at any time and tandem it dead

[lilac sigil]

That's only if we decide to let F or A be a lost cause.

If we push F or A, they get free kills.

There's always this one player that loves to sit there, even when they have F or A.

[potent summit]

Those points aren't decided by the vehicle players because it's too inhospitable, it's decided by the infantry players that put in an effort to keep those points locked down

There's always gonna be a turbo bad camper, but they aren't even contributing so it's not like they need to be punished any more than they already are

[lilac sigil]

If they're covering the area around the OBJ, then they're defending the OBJ.

[potent summit]

That's debatable, especially if we're talking about an APC on Isles

Infantry gets so much high ground and hard cover that you ain't doing anything

[lilac sigil]

I've seen the BTR players go 20-30+ with a few deathsbin those games.

[potent summit]

At least, just around the point at the first cap, the map is a bit less unfair if you can get deeper

[nimble pendant]

indeed there is no maps like that

[lilac sigil]

On one side, the little island gives the BTR the ground needed to shoot at the high ground with the little bunker.

[potent summit]

20-30 kills over an hour long game ain't that much

[lilac sigil]

Any amount of free kills is too much.

and games are like 30 min.

[potent summit]

Isles is hit or miss though, it all depends on how hard you resupply point gets focused and how much of an effort they put into shutting down vehicles

[lilac sigil]

1 ez free kill per minute

[lilac sigil]

Yeah, we normally all go engineer and focus fire our rockets to deal with them.

[severe willow]

That sounds extremely boring

[potent summit]

1 ez free kill a minute sounds like nothing has to change to "punish" these players

[lilac sigil]

I mean, the same could be said for all camping and sniping.

[potent summit]

these people are being punished already, what are you even desiring?

[severe willow]

Do people actually do this

[severe willow]

I would disagree on that. There is actually danger in both of those and you can kill people at a good rate

[nimble pendant]

if they can't go to the point directly becouse of enemies, supporting your inf shooting from island seems resonable

[maiden ridge]

well new update is out, time to see if tank is still playable now.

[potent summit]

You are worth more to your team alive from a distance than up close and dead

[nimble pendant]

I am more worried about multu, my beloved

[lilac sigil]

Once again, I wouldn't care if the game didn't place arbitrary limits to counter play.

Like on Salhan, were snipers on one side like to go on high ground in their territory and camp.

[maiden ridge]

there's no counterplay to spotting a vehicle and getting free wallhacks for 30s so I hope you're for changing those too...

[nimble pendant]

They are there for a reason. A simple one too. If it flyes over your head that your proble. You are possible first person to argue about that being bad. And it looks like you just want to spawn kill

[lilac sigil]

I want players to earn their position in a game.

[potent summit]

Your squad mate gives birth to 4-5 teammates every 6 seconds. A BTR killing 1 player a minute is a non-issue

[lilac sigil]

Nothing should be free in pvp.

[nimble pendant]

exactly, you can have better kpm with claymores, after nerf

[lilac sigil]

Having a method have a low KPM because players rarely push the backline doesn't change the fact that a mechanic is anti-competitive or anti-fun.

[potent summit]

Just don't think nerfing the safe zone for a non-issue is worth it, nor reasonable. There's already nothing stopping them from camping the cap point your spawn funnels you into, the idea that they should be able to crest the hill to your base and bully you while your in it is borderline deranged

[lilac sigil]

It sucks that I can't see a breakdown of the time spent within a vehicle within the stat menu.

[sullen nova]

tanks tank rockets

[nimble pendant]

this not a compepetive game.

[nimble pendant]

Elaborate

[lilac sigil]

The idea that you're entitled to get free kills is just as deranged IMO.

[potent summit]

If they have a low KPM or do poorly, that is them and their teams punishment and your reward.

[lilac sigil]

KPM doesn't mean much if your camping there prevents the capture of a territory.

[potent summit]

The vehicle won't single-handedly do that though, will it? Most of the maps where you can camp from a distance and support that initial cap point has too much hard cover

Sandyvalley and Isle are two I remember right off the top of my head, there is a third that funnels you right into a cap too

[lilac sigil]

Most, but not all, and that's the issue.

[potent summit]

Name 1 map where they can camp from an invincible safe zone and completely lock you out from capping.

Because it won't happen on Isles or Sandeyvalley

[lilac sigil]

Isle unless you can get all tandem rockets to hit simultaneously.

[potent summit]

haha no

Too much hard cover around the point on Isles

If there is infantry supporting that attack on the ground, they're doing all the work

[lilac sigil]

Covering flanks is more than enough to turn the tide.

You're downplaying the role that the camping BTR is playing.

Yeah, one vehicle cannot lock out an objective completely on its own.

[potent summit]

That Isles cap right off the spawn is legit the easiest one for the enemy team to lock down. But only if the team that owns it infantry players not defending it

[lilac sigil]

Sure it is.

[potent summit]

Yeah but I've been on those teams that have been locked down, no amount of camping BTRs saved us, it was the infantry

[lilac sigil]

Sure.

[potent summit]

The BTRs cant shoot in the crevasses and hard cover created by terrain and building. All that terrain is designed probably on purpose to be as annoying as possible for vehicles

You can get a decent view on the one hillside with the bunker, but it's like 150 meters of cover that can be negated by simply entering the cap

If anything the vehicle is fulfilling the only role it can at that point, being an annoyance at range and keeping you moving

[lilac sigil]

You can also get a decent view of the mini valley as players are running to the OBJ from a spawn beacon.

And get free kills because you have distance and a magical barrier to protect you.

But if you think that's fine, then we simply have different philosophies and priorities when it comes to game design.

[potent summit]

Yeah, I just don't think getting 20-30 kills over the course of a 30-40 minute game is gamebreaking

[lilac sigil]

Getting 20-30 kills safely is.

[nimble pendant]

20-30 kills is gamebreaking?

[lilac sigil]

You think the player should be able to get kills while not following the same rules as their opponents?

[nimble pendant]

They can do exactly the same. if thier enemies will stomp them.

[potent summit]

Doesn't that barrier just stop you from going there, you can still shoot into it?

[nimble pendant]

You are missing ONE VERY IMPORTANT things in all of this. Geting easy kills while blue zone is possible only when your enemies are dominating and stomping you

[potent summit]

I know there is an invincibility barrier at the spawn, but there is a buffer barrier that extends out a bit further that seems like it only hinders movement

[lilac sigil]

So you think you're entitled to easy kills when you're getting stomped and flanked.

I got you.

I think I understand where we differ now.

[potent summit]

I'm pretty sure that safety zone doesn't extend out to that little island outside the carrier though, does it?

[lilac sigil]

Base invincibility is fine. It's so far outside the objectives that even if you could shoot from them, no-one would be affected.

[nimble pendant]

I am not entitled, I have never said or insinuate that. But if enemies want to run under my barrel i will kill them. Maybe it will help my team making comeback

[potent summit]

Ik you mean the barrier that hinders movement and stops firing, I thought those were further out in the water though

[lilac sigil]

On Salhan, one team gets this high rock formation with a big circle in it.

Snipers tend to get up there, place barriers, and do their thing.

The only way to fight them realistically, is to counter snipe, but they still get to choose when to engage because there is no way to push them thanks to the team specific kill barriers.

[potent summit]

Oh god yeah, I know what you're talking about. That tumor in the center of friendly territory

[lilac sigil]

Even when using the Little Bird to flush them out, if they place a barrier, the second I try to flank, the barrier kicks in and disables my weapons lmao.

[potent summit]

That's just shit game design though

[lilac sigil]

You're right.

[potent summit]

It's not even protecting an actual base, it's just a gimmick scenario for a mediocre map meant to make things intentionally irritating at all points in the game

[maiden ridge]

OK let's see if tank is changed

[lilac sigil]

Earlier, I was saying that either maps need to change the team territory sizes or to re-work territory mechanics for encounters similair to these.

[lilac sigil]

The thing is, the large territories are useful for letting players spawn on any vehicle.

So if territories are reduced, getting back into the fight will become a tad more tedious.

But if they aren't, then people will play like cancer.

[maiden ridge]

still seems the same to me.

[maiden ridge]

I played multiislands and it seems kinda bad

[nimble pendant]

I yet to have this dubious pleasure

[maiden ridge]

Multi seems a lot worse. Looks like you either camp your team's safe area or camp near a coast because otherwise you're just fucked.

Time to wait for them to remove Tandem and medic C4...

[nimble pendant]

lol, it will nwver happen

Becouse "vehicle meta"

lmao

[maiden ridge]

"we don't want vehicles to be too strong"
also devs: "vector medics running around is fine"

[nimble pendant]

I don't know how for others, but for me it looks like a bias. Very clearly too.

[lilac sigil]

Seems like a skill issue tbh.

[nimble pendant]

Everything seems like skill issue when you don't know the fuck you are talking about.

Especially when it doesn't even fit the context of discussion you are responding too

[lilac sigil]

You honestly think that tanks in their current state are underpowered.

[lilac sigil]

Anyone who thinks there's a bias against tanks because they keep getting wrecked needs to look inward.

[nimble pendant]

yes. But not becouse of their own fault. Tanks or paper are very powerfull. Not really in game itself.

[rich prawn]

I dont know how one human can be on this discord and just spit so many facts 24/7

[nimble pendant]

APC is just bad, period.

[lilac sigil]

You're tripping lmao.

APC is 20+ free kills on Basra lmao.

Same on Isle.

That's if you're playing dumb by the point.

If they just add vehicle repair/restock stations around capture points, vehicles will be in a good place.

[nimble pendant]

I think there is some kind of bias, or igorance, becouse both armoured vehicles are poorly designed in a way that is impossible to make by accident.
They lack most basic features and have bad physics, inverted controls while reversing (why? for what reason?). They seem like there were made by person that only seen tank gameplay from perspective of observer. They have MANY issues and nothing changed in the past year. But they were nerfed tho.

[nimble pendant]

You would be suprised lol

[lilac sigil]

Tank has the reversed controls. Yeah, that's an issue.

Some others also mentioned vehicle physics, that's fair.

But in terms of ammo count, damage output, and armor, I think they're fine.

RPGs and C4s killing tanks are fine.

If you nerf those and buff vehicles in some other way, then not only are you killing individual player impact, you're also going to make vehicles overtuned.

APCs also need night vision.

[nimble pendant]

APC doesn't have coax or smoke(but have smoke dispensers, why?), it lacks Night Vision even thought every other vehilce have it, and players too, It has terrible camera filter allowing you to see only in grey, It has few bugs that impact game play negatively. it has terrible accuracy, soo much so that you can't hit players directly above 100m meaning that you need to spend 3x the ammo to kill them with only splash(keep in mind that due to apc bad survivanality you should keep this 150-200m distance from enemy, preferably).

[lilac sigil]

Those are mostly fair points. Having high accuracy in tandem with explosive rounds might be too much.

[nimble pendant]

It has bugged weakspot allowin it to get one shoted by hits that should onyl deal 40 dmg not 100.

[lilac sigil]

That's a bug, so sure.

[nimble pendant]

It has terrible turning radious, meaning it can't navigate very narrow spaces (every point, city, group of building in this game)

I don't remember more

Now good parts:

It can swim

that's all

[lilac sigil]

When it comes to APCs, there should be the question of their intended purpose by the developers. If its main function is to serve as a transport with self defense capabilities, then it would make sense that it struggles a bit with sniping targets far away.

[rich prawn]

Then just switch it to a carrier with only a CROWS system

That 30mm cannon is engineered to do more

[lilac sigil]

It has rapid fire AoE rounds and can flank in water.

It breaks buildings.

[lilac sigil]

I'm speaking about intention and balance from the developer standpoint.

[nimble pendant]

AoE splash is the only thing that makes it usable and able to do anything. It compensates for terrible accuracy to a point of carrying this vehicle

Swap it for CROW 7m or CROW HMG and it would be a buff

[nimble pendant]

They are IFV in game by desing and capabilities. I call them APC's because Oki does so. And he calls them like that by mstake, propably due to his lack of knowledge about proper nomenclature

[lilac sigil]

It doesn't matter what it is that carries it, if it works, it works.

[nimble pendant]

And it works like intended. Good vs inf, weak againt vehicles. As IFV should be

Both tank and APC main offensive abilities are good and balanced

No one said otherwise

But APC accuracy suck

[lilac sigil]

I know it sucks.

But is it balanced for what it is?

[nimble pendant]

To a point where I just stopped engaged jeeps above 350m, it is just not worth it

FUCKING JEEPS

BIG targets

[lilac sigil]

Does OKI want APCs to snipe targets from 350 meters?

Do most players want that?

Inaccuracy does suck, but if they make it accurate, then they might need to change something else to compensate.

Bullet speed, damage, splash, etc might have to be tweaked.

[nimble pendant]

even if He may not want that, but this is thier role, thier job, especially as power multipliers which vehicles are ( I know, shoking). He must be aware of it if he implemented armoured fighting vehicles at all

[lilac sigil]

It's a game. By that logic, all headshots should be 1sk, but that's not the case.

Maybe in hardcore/MilSim mode

[nimble pendant]

players don'e want anything that can be described as "minor inconvenience" not to mention more "annoying" things. Some players Players don't want sniper scope glint

[lilac sigil]

I know. It's unrealistic, but also needed for balance.

[nimble pendant]

Funny enough, more arcade games like BF3/4, enlisted have better accuracy in vehicles, with even more offensive capabilities

[lilac sigil]

Because most players aren't recon, and most don't find engaging with snipers fun.

[nimble pendant]

I espect vehicle in hardcore to be at least as good and well implemented as in squad

[lilac sigil]

Most here were either speaking about ammo and defensive capabilities, so let's go there.

I think if there's resupply stations by points, the current ammo limit is fine.

You still can be in the fight for an extended time, but you'll eventually be forced to move to any base to resupply. This change would make it so that players don't have to go all the way back to spawn to resupply, while also having no impact on those that want to sit in one spot the whole game.

Would you have any issues with this idea?

[nimble pendant]

yes it is. it is enough, for short trip to C and back, for anything else we need resuplay outside main point.

[nimble pendant]

No, I would proposed it myself if someone wouldn't be faster

[lilac sigil]

Then there's defensive. Assuming all bugs are fixed. Reversed tank controls are fixed. I think that the current health for the vehicles are in a good spot.

That said, additional smokes for the APC would be fine.

[nimble pendant]

No. Tanks? Yes-ish. APC? Hell no.

[lilac sigil]

If they upped the tank/APC armor so that they can rush through the Battlefield and play aggressively, I think that the range of those vehicles would have to be nerfed to compensate. Or else you will have still have players camping far away, but with more armor.

I don't think anyone likes that idea, not unless they introduced a new vehicle to fulfill the role of a short ranged super tank.

Or a loadout system for vehicles that let you customize.

They could increase armor at the cost of movement speed too.

[rich prawn]

I would love to see a discord badge for anyone who played any battlefield entry for more than 100 hours

[nimble pendant]

Players will always camp, that's the thing. And no one should make it impossible, that woudl be stupid and would nerf other playert that "play correctly". The best thing to do is to discurage that behaviour by making it hard and not rewarding. And this should be made mostly by map design. Alse incentivising and rewarding other way to play. That's the point. Making camping unappeling not becouse you nerfed it to the ground, but becouse there are much better options

[nimble pendant]

I wouldn't get it... XBOX here

[lilac sigil]

I played a lot of BF3 on Xbox back in the day too.

[nimble pendant]

This. This exactly. Tho we can't even expect fucking skins for them. Devs doesn't care about armour players

[lilac sigil]

Yeah, on one hand map design plays a big role. On the other, certain sandbox choices can severely limit the map design leading to a staler experience. There's always a tradeoff.

[lilac sigil]

IIRC, this was initially intended to be an infantry game, but the scope just expanded and expanded.

[rich prawn]

If this was an infantry conquest only game Id probably be done by hour 20

[lilac sigil]

Coming from someone who loves arena shooters, what drew me into the game wasn't even the base gameplay, but the big battle and social aspect.

[lilac sigil]

Same. I find vehicles to add an interesting dynamic to the game.

I love flying vehicles the most.

Little Bird might arguably be one of the most underpowered offensive vehicles, but I love it so much. I find it so fun to fly, I couldn't care less if they never buffed it; I just wish that they had more than just 1-2 Little Birds per team in a 128 v 128 game. Or reduced the spawn time from 4 minutes.

[lilac sigil]

If they upped the mobility and added smokes to APCs, would you still take issue with their armor?

[nimble pendant]

Yes. Even if they make reapir tool work properly.

Unless tandem would he nerfed to 55 dmg, I will have problem with apc survivability.

Or removed.

Or drasticly limited

I just think that 87 dmg is too much, especially when it's not in the rear, but form everywhere

And APC weakspot is a fucking joke

No armoured vehicle should be possible to one shot

Especially one that is supposed to transport up to 8 other players.

Getting blown up as a full squad by one hit, often by no fault of driver is just bad game design

[lilac sigil]

I see. So the tandem is the issue, not necessarily heat RPGs or even C4. Is that correct?

[rich prawn]

c4s being on medics doesn't help

[lilac sigil]

That's a different topic for a different time.

[nimble pendant]

No, heat is perfectly good. Maybe to strong against inf. C4 is different problem, that doesn't affect only Apc

[lilac sigil]

I see.

I like C4s as they are, since they either have to get close or make trick throws. But I can see the frustration people have with them.

If they made it so that it took 5-6 C4 to kill a tank, and 4 to kill an APC, I wouldn't be bothered.

[nimble pendant]

The problem with them is that it takes 2s to kill tank/apc with them. You can't hear enemies, and if you hear, you already dead.

Tank can fight this with its 3 player crew, with commander sight and top mounted MG.

APC doesn't have any of that.

It shoudl have MG station for second player at least

[lilac sigil]

You have to get close first. If a vehicle let's you get close, that's on them.

[lilac sigil]

I wouldn't mind. I'm surpised they didn't have any side guns like they did in BF3.

[nimble pendant]

No, that's just not true. I have been killed by c4 while standing surrounded from all sides by my teammates. I have been killes by c4 by it being thrown by guys that I couldn't possibly see, even if I had thermals, and they could see me perfectly due to 3d spot marker. It's childishly easy to kill apc with C4, and only slightly harder to kill a tank. On some maps, you will die more ofthem to C4 than anything else

[nimble pendant]

Side guns are a fun gimmick, by a ginmick. MG for second player is a necessity, given how much players there is and how small maps are

[hidden acorn]

You're literally the kind of guy I was talking about yesterday. A tank should be a force multiplier. A tank should not be screaming in fear of every single infantry they see on the map. When every single enemy on the map is an anti-vehicle trooper with c4 or rockets, tanks are on the bottom of the food chain instead of being a force multiplier. Vehicles showing up to a fight should sway the fight in that teams favor, not be barely an inconvenience. "Dont let enemies get close to you" in games where there are 64-128 enemies within a coupld hundred meters of you isn't a viable strategy....unless you sit in spawn.

[nimble pendant]

And by sitting in spawn you can't do anything. Not meaning that you can't contribute, you just can't do anything other than driving around safe zone.

[hidden acorn]

Yeah, tanks shoudl be mobile cover for infantry to use to push up with, to force enemies to have to move position.

Right now when a tank shows up the enemy think of nothing but "FREE POINTS LOL!"

[nimble pendant]

Exactly what i think when playing inf

[graceful oak]

god damn

pin my fucking message

lmao

stop all these people from posting dumb shit

[analog igloo]

ngl bumrushing tanks are so annoying and satisfying atm

[magic ingot]

Reducing the zoom on the tank will fix the camping issue, 1x 2x is fine, beyond that encourages sitting near the base and trying to farm

[analog igloo]

what?

My brother in christ that's the worst suggestion I've ever heard

[magic ingot]

medic c4 count should be reduced to 3, enough to scare off a tank, but not enough to kill it, can still take out tank with teamwork

[burnt hinge]

If enemies need to move position, you're essentially asking that infantry is given no effective counters against tanks? So then you just have to hope the tank on your side decides to show up?

Either way, that's not how it works at all IRL. Unless you're scaring off insurgents with small arms, any modern army has more than enough tools to make short work of any tank that stays parked for too long or drives up to an enclosed space without infantry support.

[hidden acorn]

Yes. Infantry should rank below tanks. Right now every single soldier on the enemy team is an anti-tank soldier. Claymores are okay, but C4 offers so much more versatility than any other gadget there. You should have to specifically kit out your soldier to counter vehicles, not just be anti-vehicle by default

Imagine if there were more aircraft in the game, but every single soldier had a lock on AA rocket with them. thats kind of how tanks are right now

[burnt hinge]

Sure, C4 is too widely available right now. But tanks usually get spotted pretty quick so if you have at least one reasonably aware person on the point, it only takes a few seconds to respawn as an engineer. No need to run away.

[hidden acorn]

Let me ask you this. When was the last time you saw a tank roll up and thought "oh man we gotta get out of here". Or how many times out of 10 did you think that? more often than not its "hey did any moron not bring c4 lol free points!"

[burnt hinge]

Sure. The question is, why is the tank driving so close to blind spots without infantry cover instead of flushing them out first with its array of machine guns and HE ammo?

[hidden acorn]

Because the tank has no other option due to map design. its either drive close to blind spots or camp way back

[burnt hinge]

Yes those are the two extremes. Or... yo could wait for infantry support and work as a team?

I do believe that getting instantly killed when the vehicle's HP reaches zero is bullshit though. I think having the vehicle be disabled and still repairable would make for a far more interesting dynamic where infantry support has a chance to secure the area and salvage their damaged assets.

Then, tanks that just try to rambo in get their asses handed as usual, but working with a team to make a contested push is not life or death.

[hidden acorn]

you seem to have this concept that all tanks are just yelling "CHARRRRRGE!!!" and drive into a pile of infantry and think they're invincible. thats not the issue, the issue is that every single person on the other team is an anti-tank trooper in some form. your force multiplier doesn't multiply anything because its more vulnerable than toilet paper

[burnt hinge]

Yes. That's about the only time I see them actually get destroyed. The other one being one it's just one guy parked on some hill for several minutes.

[severe willow]

The amount of C4 you get depends on your armour and backpack, not your class.

[severe willow]

Wait for infantry support… yeah, like that’s ever gonna happen

Coordination like that just doesn’t work in battlebit, unless you have a squad with a ton of friends

You’re lucky to even get a full tank crew

[burnt hinge]

I agree! That's a larger problem with the game's current lack of a defined identity. I personally want to see it go a bit more in the milsim route and less sprinty twitch shooter thing going on with SMG medics right now. But until that's settled either way, the way interaction with vehicles has to work can't have a clear goal to aim for either.

[sullen nova]

Idk tanks need for rockets

[analog igloo]

tanks need for rockets?

[sullen nova]

yes

tanks need for rockets

I think that tanks have just a little too much health or rockets do to little damage to them

[sullen nova]

or just give tanks more rockets like i said

[analog igloo]

for what

he is already a rocket

by that mean

[analog igloo]

I like how we ran out of things to rant

[nimble pendant]

We can always go through them again

Anyway

Splash damage of tandems is infuriating am I right?

[void whale]

tandems shouldn't have any splash, that's not how tandem works.

[nimble pendant]

Not only that, it also rewards missing. You have 3-5m error margin to deal damage to a vehicle

It incentivises pot-shots and it makes them viable

[floral reef]

yeh fuck tandems

[rich prawn]

So BTR is now one shot to the rear with a tandem even if you don't land it

[nimble pendant]

Yes

Unfortunately

Lol

Vehicle hate is strong

[potent summit]

Yeah, don't make changes that would give vehicles less of a reason to camp. Just make the way they play even more obnoxious. Time to take off the fuckin' clown shoes.

What's the point of nerfing the vehicle that already sucks further into the dirt

[graceful oak]

MrOkiDoki
• APC takes 2x damage from the back now.

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[nimble pendant]

Let's test it first

Tho I think that's a nerf still

[graceful oak]

There's nothing to test, it's a flat nerf, tandem and c4 now require only one to kill and a regular rpg is now tandem damage

[nimble pendant]

Tho only in the rear

It may be possible to play around that tho i doubt it

We will definitely see more camping tho

[analog igloo]

like why

why the 2x back damage multiplier

[nimble pendant]

they did removed old weakspot tho

[analog igloo]

ok nice

[nimble pendant]

Imo, still bad

And whenever I look I see similarl opinions

We will see how it works tho

[analog igloo]

at least it's more realistic than the shitty cylinder auto kill lmao

[drowsy estuary]

So a btr/lav can be one hit with
c4 at the back, but a armored car takes 3.. Oki pls

[graceful oak]

It’s so very clear the dev doing balancing has no idea and/or has not done any QOL or balancing on the game

[maiden ridge]

dont worry guys medic having only 3 C4 has now fixed the game

[nimble pendant]

5 with backpack

Still can destroy a tank or 2 APC's

[sharp mirage]

I see more and more vehicles either being untouched (choppers and hummers), or being hardcore camped. Every single person I have come across does this to stay alive.

the TTK on armor is just so low... and given the fact the devs have given every class explosives, having 127 players that can kill you by sneezing is a little crazy.

The buff to people in vehicles not getting one tapped b a sniper helped, but vehicle balance as a whole is just wrong.

[maiden ridge]

a-at least with indirect medic nerf there will be less of them running around

[nimble pendant]

yeah, more engis

second best choice for now

[maiden ridge]

think we'll get more assault andies now

but on the other hand APC will probably become unplayable

[nimble pendant]

Not unplayable, but definetly more punished for not camping

[maiden ridge]

nice vehicle lol

[nimble pendant]

My favorite

I don't enjoy tanks lack of mobility

[maiden ridge]

too bad they gonna be the only thing playable now that APCs get nerfed

[sharp mirage]

APCs are already in a rough spot. I keep getting one hit.

I have to camp with them as is

[maiden ridge]

nice love playing extremely well in Frugis as tank to get a whooping 48-0. At least I narrowly avoided dying I guess...

[graceful oak]

Could swing either way but I tend to think it would go toward engineer, the only weakness of that class was healing. RPGs to farm inf and vehicles, with c4 as well. More classes healing drives the game toward more easy one shots which engineer provides

[maiden ridge]

Engi doesn't have ammo box right? So can't resupply your bandages.

That's why I think people will play assault instead since you can get ammo box for bandages.

[nimble pendant]

^ That's have some logic behind it

Especially that dev's want to make Assault and Support even more worth playing

Grenade Launcher for assault when?

[analog igloo]

like nothing has changed

[graceful oak]

I assume this won’t work or is an oversight, since they essentially would be creating a better medic class that can resupply themselves

[nimble pendant]

It wouldn't create better medic

Medic still is the best at healing

He does it faster and have infinite pool of hp to heal with

[graceful oak]

It's a better medic class, someone who can heal, resupply, attain verticality etc - not a better medic

Essentially a super soldier comparitively

[sharp mirage]

Just because you do good one game doesn't mean vehicles are in a good state. My money is that you spent the entire game hiding in a spot where you couldn't be attacked by the enemy.
Because if you were pushing with you team, you would have died pretty fast.

[nimble pendant]

I think that was sarcastic comment

[maiden ridge]

yeah i was being sarcastic. you can't hide in Frugis there are just some spots you can be in where you are fairly safe. Still I got lucky and despite playing extremely well couldn't even get 50 kills lol.

[maiden ridge]

when will they add locking so I can repair my tank

[nimble pendant]

Propably never

[analog igloo]

you know the answer right

[sharp mirage]

Oh my bad lol - apologies, the /s was lost in the translation!

Yeah, usually when when I get a good spot, a squad will somehow get behind me and C4 my butt.

[maiden ridge]

claymores help but until they add squad locking and faster vehicle entering for engineers, you can't really place them most of the time...

[maiden ridge]

nice just in time for the APC nerf.

[analog igloo]

right, a better APC

makes you wonder why using APCs

[zinc sonnet]

???

[zinc sonnet]

What are the pros and cons in comparison between the rcb90 and apc?

[sharp mirage]

People can't shoot you while swimming

And it's faster than the APC

[zinc sonnet]

Can they shoot you through the class?

[sharp mirage]

Downside, not many maps where this is useful

Oh maybe

[zinc sonnet]

Can you be shot through the apc?

[sharp mirage]

Don't think so

[zinc sonnet]

How effective is the cannon on sea?

[sharp mirage]

Iv used the APC at sea

Some maps better than others

[zinc sonnet]

Sea-to-sea what im asking

[maiden ridge]

it's not out yet you have to wait

[zinc sonnet]

Sure sea-to-land is good but sea to sea might be little useless, because you need to direct shoot cuz you can't abuse splash by your projectile

And you know, direct shooting something on a not fixed substance with a hell lot of innacuracy sounds bad

[sharp mirage]

Iv killed many a vehicle with sea to sea APC. But getting players swimming is hard AF

[zinc sonnet]

Ok

[nimble pendant]

Not many maps when boat will be good

So apc still have place

Multu and Basra maybe can be good

Isle with its high cliffs is a joke

If they add it to azagor that will be just joke of a year

[maiden ridge]

lol this is just apc gun

boat is just a worse APC don't use it.

[nimble pendant]

Yeah

Better accuracy, but lower dmg and no splash

[analog igloo]

Yeah Basra is the only one I think MIGHT be good, new Multu has shitty embankments so coastal raiding is nearly useless

[analog igloo]

Did you test its health

Just asking in case

[maiden ridge]

It does have splash.

Also its health seems pretty bad and you can even get damaged by the RHIB boat minigun. Also since there is no vehicle locking still, people in your squad can get in the driver/gunner seat and grief the shit out of you.

[analog igloo]

what the fuck lol

rip my beloved boat

[maiden ridge]

the gun is better than the APC's though.

If we had vehicle locking it'd be decent I guess

[analog igloo]

from what you said I'm guessing:
-Worse health than APC
-Same gun?
-APC on water essentially?

[maiden ridge]

Looks like HEAT is a 3 hit to the boat still.

and the gun is what the APC should've had lol it's actually pretty good

[analog igloo]

seems kinda promising

Although I think I have to test it on Basra

[maiden ridge]

boat can be damaged by some small arms fire apparently

it's kinda fun but since people can grief you it's useless, not worth it until Oki adds locking god knows when.

[nimble pendant]

No, gun have less dmg, better accyracy and basically no splash

[maiden ridge]

splash seemed the same to me but maybe the accuracy makes up for it.

[zinc sonnet]

lmao speculations were right

lemme try it too fill my veins with shit

[maiden ridge]

either way it's way better at hitting people from far away than APC but lol grief

[analog igloo]

what?????

Let me just grasp this real fast: so essentially it's firing dummy rounds?

Rubber shit vs human

[nimble pendant]

3btk if I am correct

tho I may be wrong

definetly better acc

velocity the same

[zinc sonnet]

rubber 40mm rounds?

[nimble pendant]

Modeled coax MG, yet no coax MG

again

[maiden ridge]

kekw

[analog igloo]

from the description I can't find anything that match it except shitty training rounds

[nimble pendant]

dmg to vehicles also lower

[maiden ridge]

not enough time to make coax mg work please understand, gotta make more skins for streamers.

[zinc sonnet]

yeah bro

[analog igloo]

Also a belt fed model but you have to reload it

[zinc sonnet]

or else klean will die from thirst

[maiden ridge]

this shows gun a bit better

[analog igloo]

Ok yeah that's def training ammo

[maiden ridge]

and the griefing I'm talking about lol

[nimble pendant]

Ah, and ofc, only 2x zoom

[analog igloo]

no way war shots will be that shit

[nimble pendant]

Which is a joke

[maiden ridge]

that's why it's worthless

[analog igloo]

wtf max zoom?

[nimble pendant]

Yes, 2x

[analog igloo]

I thought that's only zoom preference wtf

[maiden ridge]

yup only up to 2x for some reason

because the devs don't actually play vehicles

[nimble pendant]

Nah, you need at least 4x given how far from any action you are

[analog igloo]

Ok I officially lost hope

[nimble pendant]

You can't get up close to anything

[analog igloo]

Oki play your fucking game PLEASE

[nimble pendant]

Because you are water craft, so you need water to do that

[maiden ridge]

also APC still has the cylinder thing in the model but looks like that weakpoint got removed.

[analog igloo]

WTF is he expecting us to do? Point blank coastal bombardment?

[zinc sonnet]

lmao

[analog igloo]

Also what did you say before the bot removed the message

[zinc sonnet]

man calm down he couldn't beat his meat since ea

[analog igloo]

LMFAO

[zinc sonnet]

stupdi bot censored me like the chinese gov

[nimble pendant]

btk may be even more than 3...

not to mention how often you will get stuck on some random to shallow watter

[maiden ridge]

LOL BARBED WIRE COMPLETELY STOPS A TANK

[analog igloo]

Ok I'm fucking done with this troll

[sharp mirage]

That's... Just sad. They are going to start losing numbers if they just keep dumpstering vehicles

[maiden ridge]

wineparadise more like comfyparadise holy shit, such a good tank map.

[analog igloo]

real???

[nimble pendant]

don't worry, most vehicle players form bf/Squad doesn;t play this game

Beocuse vehicle gameplay sucks here

There in no players to loose

[analog igloo]

most BF players who come here are anti vehicles in fact

[nimble pendant]

Yeah

It raises a question why even have them

Guys, your opinions, Boat needing two player to operate, yes ✅ or no ❌

[maiden ridge]

god reworked multiislands is so bad

I feel so useless lol, all the fighting is in the middle but you can't really go there with a tank without getting shot by 50 engineers.

[analog igloo]

why, if for realism then apply to all vehicles with guns

[sharp mirage]

That's fair, I'm actually practicing on squad helis right now, damn they are unforgiving

[zinc sonnet]

For casual no but i feel like for hardcore it will be yes

[nimble pendant]

I mean your opinion

[tribal granite]

What the fuck. Does this monkey even play his game?

[analog igloo]

ah yes attack boat trips a fucking reef and gets stucked

peak Oki humor

[zinc sonnet]

Learn to take jokes

[rich prawn]

I recall tank traps also being on the menu for buildable objects to get used to it

[sharp mirage]

Don't they also want to add in heat seeking shoulder fired missiles?

And AA guns

[rich prawn]

Yeah Ill never get into another helicopter. Tail rotors are currently made in china

It also makes no sense that helicopters have to sink like a bag of bricks when the tail rotor is destroyed. Pilots have landed helis even without main rotor power via counter rotation

[sharp mirage]

I just tried out APCs after the nerf

they are a joke now lol

inaccurate and no splash damage

[rich prawn]

They nerfed the splash range of the APC?

[sharp mirage]

yep

and damage...

little pea shooters now

[rich prawn]

They should add back the rifling to the barrel if they want to reduce its damage.

[sharp mirage]

no no no, that would make it too op

I just love their answer to "vehicles are camping, fix that" is to nerf them in a way that forces them to camp harder

[rich prawn]

They don't want to remove C4 from classes that clearly shouldn't have it

[sharp mirage]

if they want all classes to have environmental destruction, give them shaped charges that is ineffective against armor.

[nimble pendant]

No. He also doesn’t like vehicles

[nimble pendant]

You guys serious?

[sharp mirage]

I could be wrong, but shooting next to peole does nothing now

you have to get direct hits

[nimble pendant]

I really hope he didn't

that would be hge nerf to alredy bad APC

[sharp mirage]

I mean, when the anti vehicle players openly admit vehicles are kinda crap, you have an issue. I doubt he reads these threads. And if he did, i don't think any of our bellyaching will change his mind.

Sadly

[analog igloo]

remove vehicles at this point please

nobody wants to play shit

[analog igloo]

and the bodies are made by Nokia for some reasons

you have to score 3 direct tank hits before it explodes

[maiden ridge]

I'm pretty sure they did stealth nerf APC splash but it wasn't on this update. I remember noticing it wasn't as big as before.

Unless they nerfed it again that is lol

[sharp mirage]

Eh, pretty close to just giving up on this game. Pity, it does a lot right. I bet I'm not alone though.

[nimble pendant]

I don't think they nerfed it tho

I checked

feels normal

[severe willow]

You’ll still perform better as a tank than you will as an infantry member, unless you’re literally a top player

Even if they’re worse than they should be, it’s better than having no armour at all :)

[rich prawn]

Yeah I mean with a dev thats reluctant to spend time to balance vehicles correctly and a playerbase of vectoid medics that will shit their diaper if an APC kills them from longer than spitting distance, its not surprising if this game doesn't ever have proper power vehicles/positions/weapons

[nimble pendant]

No, that's not true

You may get the most kills but it's very rare

there is like 15 guys 100+ kills for every 80+ tanker

And inf contributes to the game much more

[severe willow]

I suppose I’m thinking in terms of KD, yeah for total kills the threshold is far lower

[nimble pendant]

Have bigger impact per individual, becouse they can consistently contest objectves

[nimble pendant]

KD doesn't matter tbh, KPM does

vehicles have very low KPM

I have 1.4 which is barely above average, while being relatively good vehicle player

My kd is 4,08 too

I am worse than Etheral/ARA/Gromp etc guys

[nimble pendant]

Though vehicle players get much more shit on than skilled players

Funny

[topaz ledge]

The reasons the "Competitive" Groups have such high KPM are because they mostly play the most intensive gamemode "Forkline" only infantry where both teams are confined to a small area, compared to Conquest where teams are spread out all over the map unless is the smaller maps or domination. They often group stack on one side of the teams with one or even two full sqauds and sometimes they even get another "clan" to groupstack even harder. Not so hard then to get a high KPM when you playing together with other players who all probably play Battebit around 5-8 hours per day or more, against public players who are for the mostly playing by them self a few hours per week tired after a hard day of real work. The only real competitive Fps game out the with the number of players and years into it backing it to be compared to a real sport is Counter Strike. Being good on Public servers means really nothing but being good in Public servers. Battlebit so called "Competitive" scene are way too tiny and with a game that lacks the tools and balancing to view them in such high regard as Veterans or Wisdoms of Knowledge. Got to give them some love for their dedication to do the groundwork for a potential Esport game out of Battlebit. I just don,t like their elitist attitude, that all. Like Chill with numbers Bragging it,s just a unfinished Game for fukk sake lulz. With all that in mind. I got a lot of personality flaws my self, so i ain,t perfect either in certain regards. Shall not forget how many people will do anything to win with cheat or hacks. The real life sports can,t even catch a small volume of doping cheaters when the majority uses prohibted substances. Only on place esport tournaments with Lan connection with guards then you can only see if they got the skills, they say they got.

Sorry for not diving my text into pieces, will do next time cheers:)

dividing

[nimble pendant]

Yeah, true

They don't play on conq mostly

But even still, 2,5-3.0 kpm is possbile on conq

They did it again. No coax, even tho they modeled one

[topaz ledge]

On the smaller maps Yes, but still just a stupid number. Its just public servers playing against noobs. Not even one former Battlefield game have had a healthy competitive scene with big amount of number of players.

[topaz ledge]

I am not surprised. "No Vehicles Meta" SgtOkiDoki

[topaz ledge]

We can,t be to hard on the three musketeers developers. Battlebit is the only real first competition against Battlefield. Not even Dice with a team of 800 workers have been able to make a functioning and balanced Battlefield game ever. Mostly because they never tried to listen on the community and make more money releasing unfinished games and moving on to the next project. Battlebit is our only hope sadly because i severely doubt Dice and EA going to improve the next Battlefields games quality compared to the older epic Battlefields games.

[nimble pendant]

yeah, being harsh is poinntless

And the game needs time

Look at the last update, only good changes

with exception of APC

And heli's dmg was overtuned

[topaz ledge]

I don,t even want to know the monstrous amount of hours SgtOkiDoki and his Comrades have put in to making this game..... On an stream from SgtOkiDoki he was literally sitting with his bed cover/blanket - over/around him looking like he had not seen daylight in months with thousand yard stare lulz. They all deserve the big money.

[graceful oak]

I have like a 3kpm mostly using tanks in conquest only, compared to my KPM for MBT in BF4 is something like 3.51, but that game is only 64 player. I've played professional in CSS, CSGO, PUBG and Battlefield with my teams traveling for ESL, so I acknowledge I might be a bit of an outlier.

I would still say it doesn't matter your k/d or kpm or anything, vehicles achieve very little in this game. Obviously someone having a better k/d and kpm, in a vehicle, is better than someone with a low kd/kpm but their influence on the map as long as they're going in correct places, isn't dissimilar

I play in OCE and OCE is renown cancer region, you'll have entire squads waiting outside uncaps all running tandems just to kill ground vehicles

[nimble pendant]

That's a lot tbh. But I play mostly APC, so I need to play very carefully
to die slighlt less than I would do normally

[graceful oak]

I think mine lists APC as my more frequently played

[nimble pendant]

I am curious how it's possbile to have such kpm when easily 1/3 of game is back and forth to main

[graceful oak]

Kill lots of people

😂

There's plenty of times in an APC get hit by a tandem on your way to the middle of the map, just to have to turn around

Pain

[maiden ridge]

Just play 64v64 instead of 128v128 and don't play Sandy

there's your high kpm

[graceful oak]

128p only, it's the flagship mode

[nimble pendant]

I find 64vs64 worse to play

Less density od enemies

Harder to find targets

[analog igloo]

based discussion

[graceful oak]

Another patch and still no tandem deletion

[nimble pendant]

It will not be deleted, sadly

I am 100% sure

We just need to deal with it

Oki doesn't want stong vehicles, so deleteing best counter seems stupid from his pov

Tho if they decide to buff frag this may take people form tandem

[analog igloo]

can't expect much from a BF4 locker player

[sharp mirage]

Exactly what was mentioned above... Kda and kpm means nothing for vehicles. Because they are forced to play on the outside of the map, they don't interact with the game state at all.

[tribal granite]

Once at least 2 squads get that vehicle Spawn trap going it's GG. Even more so when they set up road blocks that completely block tanks and other vehicles.

[nimble pendant]

God, you OCE guys must have it rough

It's a shame that it is like that

[sharp mirage]

I ran into that before, it's the most frustrating crap ever

Really hard to counter

[graceful oak]

OCE will do the most cancerous and rat type shit, while also holding a vendetta

[nimble pendant]

How's your ping on NA?

[tribal granite]

Just to be clear I don't resent how harsh our region can be when it comes to gaming. Rather I admire and take pride in being on such a higher skilled region.

[nimble pendant]

Cancer behaviour is "skill"?

[tribal granite]

If you can go as far to build an entire roadblock and consistantly cut off the spawn road then yes that's skill and dedication.

[analog igloo]

road block is fine if you have the ability to knock it down as a vehicle without shooting it

like a 70 ton tank gets stopped by a barbed wire you know you fuck the game up

[graceful oak]

180 minimum

NA is significantly easier, OCE biggest problem is the region is extremely condensed.

[rich prawn]

Thing about friendly territory, its a false sense of security. Until you see 'safe zone' it's game on. As a littlebird pilot I try to scan the area around the main road because I know that shit happens, especially on sandysunset.

Blocking off the road isn't really the problem. I find it more annoying when they don't build anything at all and slap 6C4 in a bush and instagib your vehicle

It's more of a map design issue than it is a buildable issue

Driving on anything slightly bumpy makes your vehicle suddenly perform like a forklift, you can get stuck on the most stupid shit. So obviously people are going to take the main road lol.

[graceful oak]

I think regardless something you build shouldn’t stop a tank… buildables should just function like walls/fences, they’re built for infantry cover 90% of the time after all

[analog igloo]

exactly

no way a tank or any vehicles larger than a humvee will get stopped by a concrete wall or sandbags, it doesn't make sense

[graceful oak]

It’s likely the dev just preventing something buildable from being easily destroyed, stop a transport? Sure, for gameplay, but a tank/apc no

[rich prawn]

I always use hescos but I guess the smaller ones should get ran over, as with half of all the assets in this game that don't properly have collision destruction

[severe willow]

Hescos have no reason to be able to stop a tank

They’re basically a pile of gravel held in place by a wire frame and fabric, and the battlebit ones aren’t very big

[rich prawn]

If we're going realism you wouldn't ram an Abrams into a hesco fortification because 1) it's fucking expensive and would most certainly damage the tank 2) there's probably enemies around the barrier 3) there is specialized military equipment to deal with enemy fortifications

Physics on fortifications would be pretty cool though

It doesn't work that way in Squad, ArmA, Hell Let Loose or battlefield. Why would it work that way here?

[severe willow]

I can’t say with any certainty how much it would damage the tank, but I can’t imagine it would be in any significant way

A tank will weigh at least 30x more than the regular HESCO foundations and it’s made of far, far more structurally robust material. It should at least be able to crush it and drive over

Specialised military equipment to deal with enemy fortifications doesn’t exist in battlebit currently.

[analog igloo]

HESCO is the only obstacle a tank can realistically get blocked by, the rest? No

[severe willow]

HESCO in battlebit is a lot smaller than how irl HESCO fortifications are deployed

It feels that way, at least

[maiden ridge]

Man this game is so frustating. Just lost a tank because I couldn't repair inside my team's safe zone since someone would just spawn on it.

[sharp mirage]

You can drive up to a repair station, no need to exit

[maiden ridge]

repair station on District is fara way because for some reason only one of the bases have it.

[nimble pendant]

go to map feed back with it, Vil should add new repair station

[analog igloo]

"don't worry we'll just add more streamers' skins to marketize the game!!!"

[analog igloo]

Bud probably never even plays his own maps to begin with

[nimble pendant]

true

lol

[analog igloo]

I think dude's better making maps for Unturned as he originally was

[nimble pendant]

Multu for Unturned would work well

[analog igloo]

every maps here work well for unturned, no exception tbh

and none work for this game AS WELL

[maiden ridge]

new streamer skins will fix the game

[analog igloo]

true

[graceful oak]

when i tweeted the devs would rather a balance patch than skins, in response to a tweet about skins, I got back something like "I’ll get the 2D Artist right on that. What color should the balance patch be?"

While skins and balance might be unrelated, with only 3 people working on the game and how imbalanced the game is, if there's issues doing balance maybe hire more people. So you know maybe you promote game improvements rather than your attempts to further monetise the game, which already made over 30m

[maiden ridge]

District tanking is unironically kinda fun. I liked the rework.

Got lost a lot at first but once you get used to it it's pretty nice to always be inside a blob of infantry.

[keen magnet]

is it just me or tank commander view looks much clearer?

[nimble pendant]

Propably placebo

There were no changes

[analog igloo]

compared to FLIR scope yes

[nimble pendant]

Compared to FLIR even a guy with Cataract have much clearer view

[analog igloo]

true tho

[keen magnet]

You guys using flir?

[nimble pendant]

No, I like seeing things

[nimble pendant]

Peak vehicle design

The same HP pool as RHIB with 4x bigger target

Guess what tandem does to it

[analog igloo]

no way

peak 0 iq

[keen magnet]

So thats why nobody want to use

And the zoom capability is doo doo too

[tribal granite]

That's not true. They take a lot more bullets to kill then the rib boat which is near insta death when you get both guns on it the the helicopter.

Their purpose is to position themseleves skillfully and kill island snipers and destroy helicopters tail rotors whille being fast as fuck. They are great.

[nimble pendant]

They have identical hp pool, you can chceck it with some data mining. It's resistance is propably higher. Still one shot by a tandem

[nimble pendant]

I seriously doubt its thier purpose. Its thier only viable use currently for sure, due to lack of maps that even benefit from the presence of the boat, not to mention needing it.

If killing snipers and shooting at helcopters is thier only purpose (which i doubt due to terribke elevation of a gun, only 20 degree) then someone seriously fucked up thier design.
We are talking about vehicle that needs TWO players to operate, have autocannon and can transport 12 players. It should be more usefull than APC but it isn't.

Not to mention its copy of BF4 boat, that can't do even a quarter of what it's "inspiration" could

[keen magnet]

Devs considering heat seeking missile like stinger to counter good helis players/pilots. I dont think rhib good for countering helis, good pilot can easily kill stationary rhib gunner. Imo Rhib more like glorified Jet ski with more seat and a minigun

[nimble pendant]

Imagine adding a new feature to just counter maybe 200-300 players overall, why making game unplayable for all others pilots💀

[analog igloo]

at this point they can add a billion shit into the game and it won't solve anything

[keen magnet]

Cant wait to get swarm by 5 or more stinger missile when i piloting helis. I say if they want to add heat seeking missile please add counter measure flare, im fine if the flare is not 100% guarantee escape from being destroyed by the missile

[zinc sonnet]

To nerf stinger.

Stinker could be supplied by buying it with squad points

So not 127 players gonna have stingers more like 10-20

[nimble pendant]

Imo, still to much for a dedicated counter

It's expeced to do one job, and do it well

We have only one heli that's "is problematic" but this change will harm transports too, which is definitely not needed

With at max 1 Littlebird on any map, people will shoot down all helis for points alone.

And it would be easy

[sharp mirage]

Lol... That's just sad

For the boat

To squish

[severe willow]

countering good players 😔

just stop them taking it to the extreme

[sharp mirage]

I can totally see the devs putting stingers in without flairs

[nimble pendant]

If a counter is aimed at top 1%, the rest will feel it too, if not much more

[sharp mirage]

Grounding helis lol

[nimble pendant]

It will definitely happens like that

[keen magnet]

I doubt the devs gonna do that. I think they want to all player to be able access the heat seeking missile

[zinc sonnet]

I mean then they will suck

The devs i mean

[zinc sonnet]

One or two per squad

[nimble pendant]

That would be better but there is no precedence for that

And players wouldn't be happy tbh

You just can't copy everything from BF4, some things don't work on 127x127

[analog igloo]

at this point just add Javelin to fuck up the whole game

[sharp mirage]

surprised snipers don't have hitscane AT snipers that double as explosive anti infantry rounds yet

[keen magnet]

Because they dont want to mess up the game code or system by adding new attachment such as type of bullet. And why devs against .50cal anti material sniper, i mean it can be used for countering helis and it need skill to hit helis at least it required skill to be effective not just fire and forget no skill stinger/heat seeking missile

[sharp mirage]

.... I was.... being super sarcastic....

[keen magnet]

I know, that is only "FYI". And oki said that he didnt want any bullet to have wall penetration capability. So yeah no . 50cal bullet. Hell even 30mm cannon have hard time destroying wall. Its like the wall made of diamond or something

[nimble pendant]

Yet people are complaining about that. " you just wasted half a mag to make a hole in a wall smaller than one made by my totaly not-op C4? NERF!!!"

[keen magnet]

That just Battlebit player in nutshell

The things that i dislike from battlebit is. Every vehicle feels same, there is no special characteristics from each vehicles, for me that is missed opportunity to make each vehicle special for each other

[nimble pendant]

Elaborate, ideas, concepts

Because i don't think that's the case

Tank is a tank, works well

APC have identity crisis, yes, but it sucks overall

[keen magnet]

What i mean is US and RU vehicle/tank feels same, Just like copy/paste vehicle. But crow tigr kinda unfair tho. The gunner seat in humvee just easier to kill than tigr

[nimble pendant]

And that's good that they are identical, assymetry is bad in arcade games. Squad pulls it out by having realistic representations of factions, evey faction have something unique, in bbr everthing is uniform and that's good

[keen magnet]

Fair enough. But Doesn't too much sameness will hurt the game. Imo asymmetrical can be done maybe hard but possible. Ofc it will require more balancing . For example m1 Abrams can have more hp can take more hit but more slow than t90, and T90 can be more agile with smaller silhouette/size. This difference can introduced more Playstyle to players so players can have preference in faction with how vehicles different for each other

[rich prawn]

Being able to reverse the HMMWV and use the crows without being shot out is kinda nice tho

[nimble pendant]

Any assymetry would need a lot of thought put into it, as well as testing. Given Oki's stance on vehicles, I seriously doubt he wants to/will do it

[keen magnet]

Oki is anti with Vehicles?

[nimble pendant]

He definitely doesn't like them. And doesn't understand them too.

[keen magnet]

What did you expect. He never drive car himself

[analog igloo]

Literally vehicles are better when Russian in this game

[analog igloo]

no lol

[nimble pendant]

In theory*

[analog igloo]

in theory tank should be an anti vehicle main, not an infantry farming machine

since Oki has zero knowledge on gameplay and vehicles he just made up shit

[nimble pendant]

In theory, tank is tank works as tank

[analog igloo]

nope lmao

[nimble pendant]

Unlike APC which have midlife identity crisis,

The rest I agree

[analog igloo]

you can't use a shitty status of APC to justify another shitty status of tank man, they both have problems

because one works better doesn't mean it's fine

[nimble pendant]

Yes, but I think the tank fits a role it should in arcade game

[analog igloo]

again no

not even BF has this high tank v tank ttk

[nimble pendant]

It needs changes, but has enough capabilities

[analog igloo]

infantry damage is fine, HP is shit, vehicle damage is shit, mobility is shit

[nimble pendant]

It will be buffed trust me

[analog igloo]

since 2022, never seen such incentives

[analog igloo]

my man, the reason tanks rarely fight tanks are because they fucking suck in that regard. It's not "enough"

add to that they nerf ammo count so now you have to spend nearly all of your ammo just to knock out a tank as well as 80% of your HP and then get swarmed by mfs with c4

[keen magnet]

Imo Armored vehicles need total rework. Tank should be force to be reckoned with not some hunk of metal that turned black after 2 or 3 tandem hit, it seems devs forgot that tank is 1 vs 30 infantry/engineer. It should make the receiving ends strategize to destroy it.

[analog igloo]

true

[nimble pendant]

Fun fact, RPG-7 can't penetrate front armour of KTO Rosomak (polish version of Patria 8x8, cousin of LAV-25)

[drowsy estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[nimble pendant]

more or less so

[analog igloo]

Polish bias moment

Slat armor reigns tho

[keen magnet]

God damn tank armor piercing rounds suck. How tf AP round only deal 20 damage?

[analog igloo]

balancing pulled up from Oki's asshole

[zinc sonnet]

checked some pics, they look hot.

[nimble pendant]

I fucking know, every one wheeled IFV is fucking hot

I would prefere having one of those over a woman

[graceful oak]

Yo we given up on this game yet 👀

[topaz wing]

Part of the camping issue is being able to shoot from the safe zone with impunity, shooting any weapon in the safe zone NEEDS to remove your damage immunity for 30+ seconds.
You wanna tank snipe near spawn and resupply? Alright, you're gonna lose literal invincibility if you do.