#Structure of Modding article(s) - RFC

133 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

ocean stone
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Looking for user input here regarding the Modding section. Should we do a single page, or split it up into multiples with a nav bar somewhere? If multiple, which?

spiral raft
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Single page with how to mod, with links to sub pages for having documentation

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At least that's my opinion

feral frigate
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to TL;DR versions https://starsector.wiki.gg/wiki/Intro_to_Modding

Starsector Wiki
Intro to Modding

The purpose of this tutorial is to create sort of a 'minimum viable product' when it comes to modding -- a simple mod including all of the facets that normally come to mind when one thinks of a Starsector mod. By the end of this tutorial, you will have a mod with a custom ship, weapon, faction, star system, and associated other creations, as wel...

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i would say that TL;DR version is good when it comes to basic info (adding few values, changing a picture of something, adding sound to action, or what programs to use [that one is important with links to the sites to get em])

HOWEVER, when it comes to advance stuff, like adding power requirement and uptick or something to do with atmos to brand new items

a kind of index is very valuable to just go and look it up there, what does what

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so, yea
Single page with TL;DR and links to get started, with some basic stuff like chaning values or pictures in files.

and then branch off into index with what does what, and more advance examples of coding

ocean stone
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Alright, so an overview "[[Help:Modding]]" which serves as an introduction, shows what tools to use, etc; then [[Help:Modding/Tickers]], [[Help:Modding/CondOwners]], [[Help:Modding/Loot]] et cetera, with more detailed info on each topic, examples...

feral frigate
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yea, that could work

spiral raft
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I dislike having step by step tutorial being focus

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Tutorial like that can be added but not as Introduction to modding per say

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It would be better to have explained how game reads stuff and how system works

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Intro in such way as it is linked is bad for getting knowledge how stuff works, at least for me

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This is way better structure in my opinion

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@feral frigate @ocean stone

feral frigate
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huh

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i mean yea, i agree that step by step is not exactly great, but at the same time.

you don't want to discourage lads who usually are going to taste coding for first time.

spiral raft
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Just what it requires, what it can have

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What else has to be done so it appears in game

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What you need to know

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Not "follow these steps"

ocean stone
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Aigh'. I'll do the layout, you do the rough data, we mash it into palatable reading material together?

spiral raft
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You want wiki to be informative

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That is goal

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Leave step by step tutorials to content creators

feral frigate
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those usually leave a lot to be said on forums or random discord questions....

spiral raft
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Okay, look at link

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Only I guess what is missing is where files for events should be

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And what else you would require?

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Ohh right triggers scopes effects

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Which all have their own pages

feral frigate
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i didn't say to not have its own pages

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i said that when someone looks at "into the modding" guide, they usually expect to see what they need to get started

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links to programs

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links to guides even youtube for sake
or to said indexes

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that explains more

spiral raft
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It's literally text editor and graphic editor

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That's all, you can have that I somewhere put

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Oh right it's JSON so validator

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But you give that information like that

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I think it's better to have mods of better quality due to not most people going doing same steps of same tutorial making OP factions and just slapping them in

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If such wiki breeds such mods I would like to avoid that

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Even on just probability of this being case

feral frigate
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yknow, i start to realize that we probably have different experiences with coding wiki's and help that we manage to get on em

and that might shifted my point of view on it

spiral raft
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Most faction mods in starsector are "I made strong faction that have ships soloing multiple bigger ships without issue"

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I'm just saying out of being used to eu4 type of wiki when it comes to me doing modding

feral frigate
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ay, i usually used SS13 modding coding wiki

spiral raft
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I have nothing to complain on that setup

feral frigate
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and that was bit more spare on work

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but usually in code there were comments left by other coders

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explaining what they do and when to use em
gah

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yea, looking at EU4 wiki seems a far more cleaner

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then most of other wikis i used

spiral raft
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It's pretty much done similarly to coding language documentation

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Ohh Right caused it's scripting language

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In case of ostranauts we just have JSON database structure

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Wait, maybe more, I didn't look into game data well enough

tepid moon
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I probably shouldn't be here, but can't you do both approaches? Have the main introductory to modding on the main page, and if you are adding links to other pages, have one directed to a step by step example? I have yet to write a mod, have played with a little bit of programming, but am completely enjoying this game and have had thoughts about trying my hand at a mod to see if I can.

ocean stone
feral frigate
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my point of view on it, was of a guy who wanted to go into modding/coding.

and then was meet with bare wiki, explaining only advance stuff that i didn't know jack shit, jargon that was akin to magic runes, and everyone going with attitude "how do you don't know this, its fucking idiotic easy."

ocean stone
spiral raft
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It's game data

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In JSON format

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Engine is changing it into objects right?

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@ocean stone

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"A database is an organized collection of structured information, or data, typically stored electronically in a computer system"

spiral raft
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It's about use case

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Unless you mean I should in this case write data and base separately

ocean stone
spiral raft
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And JSON is file format

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You can utilize it without JavaScript

ocean stone
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Anyhow, I'm sorry, but this is not the place for this discussion. You're welcome to debate the intricacies with me via DM, but this is drifting too off-topic.

scenic igloo
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Yeah, as I said elsewhere: A brief intro on modding with things like links to VS Code, and the basic quirks of JSONs (The comma versus no comma thing basically), a list of everything believed to be beyond the reach of JSON modding, and then finally the layout of files and what those files do in general, which then links into a detailed page of that filetype with all of the gritty details.

modest pilot
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Step by step examples of how to mod specific things is what would get more people into it, its one thing to just read the theory of how, but real examples are far more useful.

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Like "this is how you add a ship part", "This is how you get a custom ship to be included in the game" "this is how you make a new piece of equipment" etc.

spiral raft
modest pilot
spiral raft
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Doing it in informative style is way better

modest pilot
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to you, people learn differently, you shouldnt discount that.

spiral raft
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Not tutorial site

modest pilot
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it was a suggestion on how to get people into modding, do whatever you want.

spiral raft
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You want to breed modders? Or you want to breed "let's do what this tutorial said"

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Good wiki page about modding

spiral raft
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@modest pilot

modest pilot
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bad to you. I like specific goal oriented learning. It doenst take much to take that information and understand how to change it for other things. but whatever. you clearly arent open for suggestions, so I've made mine, nothing more to say.

spiral raft
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It clearly states what is required in event, and it explains all of those

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Effects and triggers and scopes are available on other pages

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Scripting language description is also explained on other page

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Step by step is useless to person that is already modder, and step by step would probably lead to lower quality of mods, (second one is just assumption based on seeing starsector having step by step introduction, and knowing issues with starsector's mods)

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@modest pilot

feral frigate
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issues with starsector mods?

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there are so many of them ya might as well be trying hard to pin it down at single wiki tutorial

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AOTD is one that started small

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Nexerelin started small as well

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the problem however in starsector modding isn't quality of mods

its how they treat new modders

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as they got the same snoppy altitude that shots down anyone trying to understand what means what

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but that is no talk for 'ere

spiral raft
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But hey, they do have step by step tutorial so I guess it's not required right?

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(sarcasm, maybe I over did on that)

feral frigate
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and you are begin overly ass in this entire converstation

spiral raft
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(yea definitely went step too far, I don't know how to rephrase that one)

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Okay, I don't know how to rephrase second sentence

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But point stands

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Goal is to inform what's necessary, what is what, and what does what

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So someone knows how to setup item and it's behaviour

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According to their idea

feral frigate
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yknow, i'm not gonna get onta ya, so i'm done

spiral raft
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Okay so you gonna jump on guy that would like to see wiki for modding be done as documentation rather than filled with step by step tutorials being useless for him and plenty of other people

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I see stuff like that starsector introduction, I'm not reading that at all

feral frigate
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Single page with TL;DR and links to get started, with some basic stuff like chaning values or pictures in files.

and then branch off into index with what does what, and more advance examples of coding

ocean stone
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I mean I definitely do see Rells POV there from someone who isn't intimately familiar with the modding. I'm thinking an "Examples" subpage detailing how to do certain small things step-by-step, giving the user the tools to build their own stuff by referring back to the intro page.

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But yeah, @spiral raft change your tone, please. I'm already fevery, man. Don't do that.

spiral raft
ocean stone
spice tide
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is the community guide in the wiki already? helped me alot, Ive found a few bits but not that much.. there's no good overview page for the modding stuff, had to lookup the Condowners in AllPages 🙂

ocean stone
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We do have [[Getting started]] though

cosmic jungleBOT
spice tide
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mediawiki tho -.-

ocean stone
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Coordination is already done through Discord, be happy I'm not making y'all use the Talk pages.

Chances are nothing would get looked at anyway lol

spice tide
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haha, suffered many years with that format already... bring back bad memories

ocean stone
spice tide
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our customer handbook is a mediawiki so I certainly know it 😄