showdown-teambuilding

[hexed lotus]

not to mention greninja has no longetivity

you don't want it coming into rocks and then defog that much

[pastel cave]

is there like, a meta list right now?

[quiet salmon]

closest i have is this old ass tier list i made which isnt really accurate anymore

i should def remake this why tf is zoro/bibarel in b+ lol

[umbral crane]

where u get greninja?

[gusty burrow]

Noivern in B (with boomburst) is wild

[quiet salmon]

thats because i based it on the main contributor to the fusion

without pz or sylveon noivern is v tame

[gusty burrow]

I suppose that's just different ways of looking at it. Yanmega pretty much only used in Hydremega (except for me doing dumb U-Turn things with Yanmezor), but that one viable fusion is really good

[gleaming flower]

I have a basic prototype of a cheese strat
Would it work?

https://pokepast.es/0ae80533e46f296c

[quiet salmon]

assist cannot call dtail so no

[gleaming flower]

What prio has gale wings whirlwind

[sudden girder]

-5 i believe

-7 is trickroom and - 6 are phasing

[hexed lotus]

Thoughts on this team?
https://pokepast.es/ad179a95672fea36

I feel like latias having spikes too is too much

oh wait it can have toxic spikes

[orchid field]

You don’t have any special walls

[hexed lotus]

interesting

So things like iron valiant can sweep through my team?

[orchid field]

Any special attacker in general

Blacephlon x Kadabra is one that comes to mind

[hexed lotus]

yeah that does sound terrifying. I feel dragoluna would be the only one who could ko it

but then it has eviolite

[quiet salmon]

it doesnt use eviolite it uses lo

[hexed lotus]

then why not alakazam?

[quiet salmon]

bc its banned

[orchid field]

If Genesect got unbanned what would be the best set to run

[quiet salmon]

something like this

with max atk or max spa

[snow pike]

hm
ive never actually seen download being used to its full use

mm it has shift gear isn't it just kinda better klinklang as a body?

or usable klinklang

[quiet salmon]

no it lacks shift gear and espeed which makes it a possible unban candidate

[snow pike]

oh
Are they event moves

still has good special coverage and a strong uturn but no sgear or espeed does limit its options

[quiet salmon]

theyre prob event moves

but yeah i see it as fitting in ou p well

[patent hatch]

Yeah they’re event moves

[hexed lotus]

yeah doesn't seem like it's got much to me
No good ability, typing isn't too good

I guess it's got good stats. So you can run phys and get burned

or special and deal with other issues

but it's also got no recovery

I guess it's got fell stinger but idk how good that is against other players

[gusty burrow]

Ludicolo seems like a pretty meh Swift Swim sweeper, stats are very meh and it doesnt get anything notable normally (except knock off i guess). Maybe IF will give it quiver dance

[loud glade]

I'm glad Ludicolo is here but for competitive purposes I can't imagine it's giving anything that other Swift Swimmers/Rain Dishers don't already give

[hexed lotus]

in normal game he's the only water grass, or at least was before ogerpon came in

but here, you can make a water grass whenever

so here, the only niche would be to make either a water type with a grass' utility, or a grass type with scald

which is actually not that bad

add in a steel or a poison or poison heal

so you don't get toxic

[gusty burrow]

It doesn't have much bulk for a defensive grass, definitely not worth it compared to Tangrowth

[pseudo heron]

Ludicolo is cool in doubles

[hexed lotus]

so yes it's a water type with leech seed

[sudden girder]

Whats the best revenge killer in IF Dex OU

[void willow]

I think you've asked this question before; ESpeed users and fast scarfers are good revenge killers, but if you want even more assurance you can use Sash/Sturdy + Counter/Mirror Coat (if Sash then MGuard is good to avoid hazards breaking it)

There isn't a "best" revenge killer, only revenge killers who are "relatively good" at revenge killing, since you can't account for every situation (especially if the opposing mon has a sub up)

[gusty burrow]

Sash/Counter (and misc) isn't very reliable.

[sudden girder]

I was wondering if the answer changed after all the new mons/bans

With V-create bannend : what are some good Lurantis fusions?

[void willow]

If your defensive core is broken and/or you can't withstand the power of something like a boosted priority user (Guts/Pixilate ESpeed, Technician priority, etc.), then sometimes a simple answer like Sash/Sturdy is the way

I'm not necessarily advocating for it since it's hit-and-miss and there are many matchups where it's kind of a dead slot, but it's always there if you want a way to deal with extremely strong sweepers

[gusty burrow]

It's a one time use that is often fairly obvious (Magic Guard is needed, and you also need Metal burst). It isn't threatening and the sweeper can just get a KO, switch out and repeat

[void willow]

Isn't that the case for all revenge killers though? The sweeper can always switch out and repeat

You're switching something in that always threatens the attacker; you can also choose to double-switch too

[gusty burrow]

If you have a normal revenge killer, you threaten the other teammates as well.

Also it depends on what pokemon you are using, but chances are your sash burster will be either complete dead weight or set-up fodder even if it manages to ko the sweeper

[sterile glacier]

That sort of thing only works if the opponent doesn’t see it coming

You just want something that goes fast and hits hard enough to threaten a sweeper

[void willow]

There are some very good points being made and I agree with all of them. I do want to note that it is an option for revenge killing though, even if it's not the most flexible.

[sudden girder]

I have a weird problem : all my teams end up looking like stall

[misty dew]

What's a good team dor like trick room in doubles?

Excluding paradox, mythicals and legendaries

[quiet salmon]

is this if nd dou

[misty dew]

Yes

[sudden girder]

https://pokepast.es/4f4db3dc4af72847

how could this team be improved?

[void willow]

I would probably replace either Ice Beam or Sludge Bomb for Flamethrower/Fire Blast on Togeking, since otherwise you're always countered by AV Jigrowth

[hexed lotus]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=sutvc-illusion911-1730027454555
I feel like I need to change my team

https://pokepast.es/0e615f45eca985f5

verdict:
Tyranitar is cool because comes in and pursuit, however, even though regenerator helps, it doesn't really come in enough to deal with that

and latiatress is just too passive

[sudden girder]

i assume you still want a spinner?

[hexed lotus]

yeah

[sudden girder]

Try a spdef set with av

[hexed lotus]

Well, last tournament I was checked by a slowphan, so I guess I should use one

[sudden girder]

slowphan is good

[hexed lotus]

rapid spin knock off is a good combo

[sudden girder]

Running Fire blast on togeking is better than Flammethrower

[quartz phoenix]

We not tryna rely on fire-miss

[patent hatch]

Fire Blast isn’t fire-miss that’s just simply a skill issue

[pseudo heron]

Even though fire blast and hydro pump have the exact same accuracy on paper it’s not true 💀

I have seen Fire Blasts hit way more than Hydro pumps

[quartz phoenix]

Whaaaaat

Not in my case

We got Hydro hit

And Fire miss

[hexed lotus]

If it's not 100% accurate, it's a coin flip

[gleaming flower]

Can you please give me some improvement tips for this team
https://pokepast.es/c97d6168e73d8bee

I know it’s probably garbage rn but Im hoping that i can improve it…

[void willow]

Spiritomb/Muk is not really bulky, strong, nor fast; I suggest switching to something else for this slot since it doesn't really do anything well.
PZ/Zam gets walled hard by Steel types and also gets pursuit-trapped to death by Toxitar. Even if you ignore the Toxitar problem, you should at least fuse Zam with something that can deal with Steels: Zam/Electrode is common due to no-recoil Mind Blown and a pivoting move in Volt Switch, but there are plenty of other options too.
Likewise, Aegislash/Milotic is walled by Water types. Also, in IF Stance Change switches the EVs as well, so those 252 SpA EVs should go to SpD if you want more power.
Roserade/Jolteon is not exactly a bad concept but it does get stopped by Grass types. Activating Quick Feet for a Scarf-equivalent boost is okay, but if you're using Roserade I'd recommend Technician instead to get 90 BP Hidden Powers for coverage. Otherwise, Volt Switch is always a solid option on special-attacking Electric-types like this and should probably be used over Spiky Shield.
Entei/Lucario should have all of those Def EVs put into Spe instead, since you're going to be outsped by other Scarfers and most other setup mons after one Dragon/Quiver Dance. Note that this mon is going to struggle a lot against bulky Water types.
Garchomp/Greninja is not a defensive mon and doesn't need Rocky Helmet: it should be using something to boost its power like Life Orb, something to mitigate status like Lum Berry, or something to boost its longevity like Leftovers. Dragon Rush should probably be swapped for something else since it's quite inaccurate without giving much benefits.

I'm pretty sure even a standard Garchomp will roll over this entire team after one DDance, so that's something to consider

[gleaming flower]

Ok

Thank you for the feedback, Ill try to fix the stuff you mentioned

[gusty burrow]

The team notably lacks a ground resist too

[gleaming flower]

I tried to fix the stuff you guys mentioned while keeping the Team based on Cynthias…

https://pokepast.es/dbc5204cbe043988

[quiet salmon]

why does lucario not get iron head ☠️

[frank jewel]

Bc it doesn’t have an iron head

[quiet salmon]

if it can steel its tail it can steel its head

[frank jewel]

I guess that would be fair

[quiet salmon]

https://pokepast.es/01acecd51bb20019 this is my take on it

[quiet salmon]

spiritomb is so ass holy shit im tryna make a somewhat decent fusion with it and it just doesnt work

[gusty burrow]

Poor hp, passable defenses and a terrible movepool. No reason to use it over other defensive ghosts or darks

[quiet salmon]

yeah i was only looking at it cause i was bored and the guy above me wanted a cynthia team

[sudden girder]

Maybe fusing it with pyuku?

a passive af wall.
But one thats annoying thx to willow , spririt shackle, recover and unaware.

Definetly no OU material tho

I was gonna suggest milotic next but that probably isnt allowed

[rare lantern]

https://pokepast.es/b2d72843d602c55b not a competitive team, but one I built for an OC

[sudden girder]

You like dinosaurs dont you?

[rare lantern]

She's meant to be a Dragon Trainer due to being a halfbreed, and as such a dragon type herself

[sudden girder]

halfbreed?

[rare lantern]

She's half human, half pokemon. A major part of her motivation in universe being to defy the social stigma against her kind. There's a reason there's exactly 1 Nickname on her entire team

[sudden girder]

Its the latias gardevoir isnt it?

[rare lantern]

Yup. She's specifically the latias portion

[sudden girder]

From the movie right?
Where latias disguised itself as a human?

[rare lantern]

That was simple inspiration, but not the same character

[sudden girder]

so she is part latias, and uses latias?

[rare lantern]

She uses latias because she's figured out that mega evolution circumvents human laws that would otherwise prevent her from battling as her own pokemon

[sudden girder]

I have several questions.
But this is a showdown chat.

why did you post your team in here anyway?

[rare lantern]

I was proud of how it turned out

[sudden girder]

are you asking for advice in terms of EV IV items and moveslots?

[rare lantern]

I guess not. Just expressing pride

Unless you know some better alternatives to Metamence's Aerial Ace and Charchamp's Flying Press

[weary berry]

is there anyway better to do perish trap in ou? I am trying to have one as a wall breaker

[gusty burrow]

imo theres too many good defensive pokemon with u-turn, Gliscor just switches in and u-turns forever

[weary berry]

is there any good counter to this then?

[weary berry]

pls help i got walled completely last time

[gusty burrow]

Usually it's Calm Mind/Iron Defence/Soft Boiled/Moonblast, that set can be walled pretty easily

Defensive pivots into strong super effective attackers works pretty well

[weary berry]

yeah but I met a toxic spammer he run this but moonblast instead of flame thrower and my entire team got toxic because i can't ohko

[gusty burrow]

Run some pokemon that don't mind or are immune to status and can take a moonblast

[sudden girder]

or steal its boost with spectral thief

[quiet salmon]

regen, pheal, poison/steel not weak to fire, etc

[orchid field]

Honestly most nidoking fusions should light this up

Or guts earthquake

[weary berry]

is prankster bugged? My dark type still got sleep powder or is dark being immune not a thing in gen 7?

[quiet salmon]

that mechanic does not exist in if

[sudden girder]

was it changed?
I certainlty remember times where I blocked the parting shot of a Whimsicott/Umbreon with toxitar

[quiet salmon]

yes

after it was discovered it worked like that ingame showdown was changed to reflect that

[weary berry]

Does it work in the gen 9 then?

[keen dawn]

yeah it should work like normal in gen 9

[gusty burrow]

Imagine how many changes would need to be made to the showdown for IF 5.X, game mechanics were scattered throughout the gens

I lost a mon in a nuzlocke because Future Sight was typeless... which is from gen 4 (for 5.something, not 6.2)

[sudden girder]

is Future sight typless in showdown?
Because I remember that being not the case at first

[naive dome]

Huh, Future Sight has done Psychic type damage since gen 5 and the power boost happened in gen 6. I wonder why it took until gen 8 for it to see use

[quiet salmon]

bc port got buffed

[naive dome]

Probably

Its absolutely wild how common of a strategy it is in gens 8 and 9. I see it all the time

[hexed lotus]

So, thoughts on this team?
https://pokepast.es/0d1e5ffa037b2d96

[quiet salmon]

bulky balance with 1 pivot is suspicious and your vest mons have too much atk over bulk

[hexed lotus]

wym with suspicious?

[quiet salmon]

hard to maneuver to your offensive mons with your only pivot being wrong ev spread leech seed jitang

[hexed lotus]

so you think I should add more pivots?

[quiet salmon]

yes

[hexed lotus]

I guess I could replace toxitar for someone else, or slowbro, I'm not really satisfied with him

[quiet salmon]

thats bc you gave it max atk at the cost of def making it vulnerable to 2hkos

[hexed lotus]

I might just bring ol faithful hydreigon tentacruel

[hexed lotus]

what should I change my ev spread to?

[quiet salmon]

max bulk

[hexed lotus]

it's max hp and def, is that not good?

[quiet salmon]

do you have to ping reply me every time

im talking about the toxitar/slowphan

[hexed lotus]

oh, I was talking on the jigrowth

but yeah you're right about those

[quiet salmon]

grass steel is a spd typing

[hexed lotus]

ah, so that's why it's recommended to go with assault vest

[quiet salmon]

yes

[hexed lotus]

should I take assault vest off of slowphan?

[sudden girder]

usually uncommon

as slowphan doesnt lose much with av

and it helps with its subpar special bulk.

So let me ask, what would you put on it instead?

[hexed lotus]

good ol trusty lefties

or the grass berry so you don't die to a surprise energy ball (you'll die regardless)

[sudden girder]

resist berrys are used to survive a crucial hit.
Think chomp using the ice berry( Yachi?) to survive an ice shard from mamoswine in gen 5.
It buys you 1 extra turn, slowphans value doesnt come fast enough to validate such an item choice.

Lum I can see tho.
Lefties seem like less bang for your buck considering you got regen

[sudden girder]

Adding to that, heatran did use shucca yes, but it also hit a lot harder then slowphan and could get a crucial burn of with willow.

Scald isnt an acceptible substitute for this scenario

[hexed lotus]

yeah, slowphan is just a bad choice for what I'm doing

I put it there to replace latiatress, as my hazard mon, but with knock off... But then I didn't even give it stealth rock

[sudden girder]

tbf you dont need rocks on it

Diancie sounds promising

with rocks and most importantly heal bell

[hexed lotus]

yeah moltres has rocks

I guess I could use uturn, but I like the rocks roar combo

also, should I worry about thousand arrows?

[sudden girder]

if only moltres learned willow

yes I know lum exist

[hexed lotus]

I don't want to switch it in on a haxorus sandslash in the sun though

[quiet salmon]

lefties allows you to click recover

otherwise you can get owned by someone spamming strong moves

[sudden girder]

but does slopwphan need recover?

[quiet salmon]

without it you have to switch to something else and idr if the team has that

[sudden girder]

if you run slowking/donphan you can drop eq for dragon tail

allowing you to phase

[quiet salmon]

i disagree eq is valuable bc its your strongest move against something like enteihaxorus

[sudden girder]

considering your moltres i doubt physical attackers are much of a threat to you

[quiet salmon]

i just checked the registeel no atks is p horrendous imo

also flamethrower over tbolt on togeking

[sudden girder]

I would drop Roar for Uturn tbh

[hexed lotus]

roar has saved me so much from would be sweepers though

[sudden girder]

Uturn into ursanite

force that sweeper out

[hexed lotus]

they aren't, until I'm dealing with ursanite or gliscor

[sudden girder]

hear me out, diancie slowbro

[hexed lotus]

so since when is diancie in the game

not complaining, just surprised

[sudden girder]

a week?

[quiet salmon]

like 10 days ago

[sudden girder]

close enough

[sudden girder]

unaware dusclops clef for the win

Or any ghost plus unaware

[hexed lotus]

or just doublade

even with ursanite's throat chop, I wouldn't want to stay in on doublade

[sudden girder]

well ursanite does suffer a bit from 4mss

eq, espeed, sd, roost, throat, facade

if it runs throat it might not have eq, or sd

also clefclops is neutral to throat

[hexed lotus]

yup

[quiet salmon]

throat chop is just worse crunch

[hexed lotus]

throat chomp prevents roar... I was once denied on my moltres because of that

but maybe it's not that good on a pokemon that's not using swords dance

[hexed lotus]

ok what does this do though

I thought diancie was good because of mega diancie

[quiet salmon]

its good bc its a fairy 150 def mon

[sudden girder]

set up rocks, recover, scald and healbell

or monblast

[hexed lotus]

i feel like i'd just use it for diamond storm jirachi

[quiet salmon]

sounds ass

[hexed lotus]

hmm... diamond storm calm mind jirachi

[quiet salmon]

thats just idef cm with extra steps

[hexed lotus]

pretty much, but without the good abilities

[sleek iris]

Technically not for an actual pokemon showdown team but something I've been putting together in a Cobblemon server with what I had caught, but does this seem like an at functional monotype team?

(I know like nothing about properly competitive team building )

[patent hatch]

SD and Choice Band doesn’t work together since Band locks you into one move

Also it doesn’t have stab fighting move

[sleek iris]

Ah, knew I forgot something on him

Had it switched for drain punch when I gave him the band and then refreshed accidentally

[gusty burrow]

If its gen9, why not Sacred Sword?

[weary berry]

for ag is this fine? or should I have more ultility mons? https://pokepast.es/ae217ca593a31f5a

[peak nexus]

Xatu isn't doing much with Roost. Roost heals your valuable mons, it looks like Xatu only has one job and its to set up screens. If Xatu dies, that's a free switch without wasting a turn of your screens.
So you have Xatu there chilling, healing and wasting your own screens. Give him psychic so he can deal damage to things in front. You don't want someone to be using swords dance for free while you are healing your useless Xatu behind screens.

I'd say trace is a bit better on Gardevoir. It gives you information in a blind format (minecraft). Does the enemy bronzong have levitate or heatproof? Now you know!
People won't care about burning Garde and toxic can't be passed back to the poison types using it.

Other mons look okay except for Solrock. Poor guy is not using cosmic power, rock polish and baton pass; he is dying in 2 hits to a scald. Consider having mons which cover psychic's weaknesses to dark, ghost and bug offensively and defensively.

Good consideration here 👏

[sleek iris]

Ty for the good points. I'll def look into swapping roost with either psychic, or maybe some flying move for extra bug coverage maybe.

With Solrock, he's not the best pick I know but the whole team is built on what I have access to in game, and Solrock was one of the earlier psychics I found. Cobblemon unfortunately doesn't have a full Pokedex, and some of the mons I would have used for better coverage/better move sets like Malamar and Medicham aren't yet in the mod

I also know I'll probably have to go and check what abilities my team has too, the team here is built with sorta best case scenario, but I'm not sure if they have the right ones or if there's a way for me to change them

Also another quick question, would slowking be better or worse than Slowbro in this scenario? I don't rlly remember what differences they had

[peak nexus]

I much prefer slowbro for singles. Slowking is a great trick room setter, which is less valuable in singles where waiting out turns is more viable. Slowbro's great defense and calm mind/slack off access makes him a decent setup

[sleek iris]

Ah, kk

[sleek iris]

the gang is almost all together tho

[quiet salmon]

have you considered slashing the opp to death with your diamond sword

[red spear]

I like the Solrock just having specs placed on it rather than wearing them

[autumn relic]

wait dondozo is in the game?

[wintry sparrow]

xatu looks so goofy

[patent hatch]

No that’s a natdex team meaning it has all pokemon not just only Pokémon in game

[autumn relic]

wait fr??

with autogen sprites ig

wow so cool

[quiet salmon]

easily walled by like shed and counterswept by imp

looking at the sets themselves im bewildered at adamant geomancy

[autumn relic]

lost to iron head + serene grace..

flinchflinchflinchflinchflinchflinchflinch

[weary berry]

Thx, i thought turboblaze go through wonder guard?

also what is imp?

[glad plume]

Imposter ability

[sudden girder]

Would a fusion between Houndoom and magnezone be good in UU?

[halcyon cradle]

https://pokepast.es/93de400687c7620f goofy aah team

[gusty burrow]

A Garchomp fusion without EQ? Blasphemy

[quiet salmon]

what the scallop is this team

[gusty burrow]

peak

[snow pike]

Nosepass mentioned ||i dont know why i said that i dont care about nosepass :>||

[sudden girder]

https://pokepast.es/17413a2ff55a9c74

ignore the av on scizor

[quiet salmon]

no recovery setter sounds bad
dragonite looks real underpowered
defensive core pretty weak to ground

[sudden girder]

https://pokepast.es/0f77a0531f2cc0f3

better?

[quiet salmon]

fire blast in rain ⁉️

dont get the porymagius here

[sudden girder]

i wanted a ghost type so i dont lose to ursanite

does fireblast 2hko av jiragrowth in rain?

https://pokepast.es/e599cc791769b4d3

now with Ice beam and a gengar.
still dont know how to remove jiragrowth in rain tho

[loud eagle]

How much does gyaretta close combat do?

[quiet salmon]

id estimate 85

actually ohko considering adamant

252+ Atk Abomasnow Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 372-440 (92 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

[sudden girder]

how bulky is jiragrowth to have a shot at surving that?

[quiet salmon]

like 100/116

[gusty burrow]

Are there any IF Dex UU sample teams? It seems interesting

[quiet salmon]

not a sample technically but one ive used https://pokepast.es/3a75e32f13b350f6

[compact pebble]

Is that a stall?

[quiet salmon]

no its just bulky balance

[coarse crow]

wrong thread sorry

[waxen rampart]

just curious why are you using dusclops instead of dusknoir

[quiet salmon]

dusclops lets you use eviolite

[waxen rampart]

ooh gotcha

i just checked that out thats fraggin broken

[nimble sluice]

https://pokepast.es/7382d98356bba5b7
not sure what’s meta rn

[sudden girder]

i would say bulky balance is meta atm

abusing regen cores to get powerfull offensive pressure on the field safely

[plush badger]

Guys I made my first team that actually has done decent (compared to the other ones 😭) in doubles ou please give advice for improving it.

I'll send it in a sec

Greninja (M) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Torrent
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe

• Water Shuriken
• U-turn
• Protect
• Spikes

Archaludon (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Stamina
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

• Electro Shot
• Body Press
• Flash Cannon
• Earthquake

Pelipper (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

• Substitute
• Roost
• Tailwind
• Hurricane

Landorus-Therian @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 116 Def / 140 SpD

• Fly
• Earthquake
• U-turn
• Protect

Cinderace (F) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe

• Counter
• Trailblaze
• Flare Blitz
• High Jump Kick

Glimmora (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk

• Meteor Beam
• Dazzling Gleam
• Sludge Bomb
• Spiky Shield

Please give advice for improving it and if you have any questions about why I added specific stuff just ask and I hopefully didn't forget.

[plush badger]

I think I forgot to give them natures

[sterile glacier]

Why are you running no HP investment on your things that are supposed to be bulky? Why are you even pretending that Greninja and Pelipper will ever survive a meaningful hit without a focus sash? Why is your Greninja running Torrent and no speed investment?

[hexed lotus]

dragoring is the meta rn, so that one's good

alakazam is better with electrode because it gets mind blown

jirachi with nidoking is a bit of a waste

jirachi is a steel with uturn and recovery, while nidoking is just an offensive menace with togekiss and gengar

you also have no way to deal with hazards

[snow pike]

I remember memeing a bit a while ago with regular unfused Gliscor, and I wonder what the best unfused mon is

I think its still gliscor?

but like obviously most ground type head fusions already kinda ouclass it

[sudden girder]

maybe Jirachi?
It now having Recover is a huge buff.
Chomp with dd is also a menace

Mew/Celebi getting QD is also insane

[plush badger]

I thought they might

The goal was water shuriken into archeledon (Idk how to spell its name) for stamina buffs

Then survive 1 turn to then u turn out and use him later

Or something

Also I am not good with evs I usually just throw 252 into attack/special attack then 252 into speed

It is infact a skill issue

With my old team I used to use I found on yt being evaporated (5/6 mons banned) and legendaries banned though I think now is a good time to make a team with a pokemon I really like being greninja.

[plush badger]

I made another team

Oh right I won't be able to use pecharunt in sv

Unless it's a mythic and mythics aren't banned

DAMN IT I PUT ASSAULT VEST ON A MON WITH 1 ATTACKING MOVE

😭

Found this out in a match

I keep doing this with the vest

Greninja (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Stellar
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Hydro Pump
• Ice Beam
• Dark Pulse
• Sludge Wave

Clefairy (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Follow Me
• Encore
• Protect
• Life Dew

Braviary-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature

• Esper Wing
• Tailwind
• Hurricane
• U-turn

Incineroar (M) @ Aguav Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 120 HP / 136 Atk / 116 Def / 136 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Fake Out
• Parting Shot
• Flare Blitz
• Darkest Lariat

Pecharunt @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Poison Puppeteer
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Parting Shot
• Malignant Chain
• Shadow Ball
• Toxic

Politoed (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature

• Haze
• Perish Song
• Encore
• Dig

I did some fixes

[sudden girder]

shouldnt you run max hp on clef?
also why not use knock on incineroar.

may I ask why pecharunt is here?

[plush badger]

I used a defense filter

And the next best 1 with ok typing better then rock or ice was pecha

[raven bay]

Any advice on my team? https://pokepast.es/1987d4834769214b

[sudden girder]

I would remove ep from hymega as it doesnt need coverage.

Running rocks and spin on the same mon is often suboptimal, as it leaves you quite passive and exploitable, remove one and run scald or uturn

May I ask what idea is for mag/suicune?

[quiet salmon]

it definitely wants coverage but more specifically flamethrower to hit jigrowth

[sudden girder]

doesnt tinted leans negate the need for coverage?

i suppose getting the suprise 1-shot is valubale tho

but can Jira even stop hymega from setting up ?

[raven bay]

Anylic boost any late moves, and Magnezone adds less speed to suicune

[sudden girder]

i like the idea, but thats not gonna work

special attackers need to hit really hard to validate their place in a team, which suicune mag just doesnt

like the no 1 special defensive pivot probably eats your stabs for days

maybe make use of a wallbreaker that gets a second round because of lunar dance?

[raven bay]

What about alakazam/elecrode?

[sudden girder]

good mon

fast and aggresive

[quiet salmon]

no bc jigrowth can take owings up to like +4 and remove its item/uturn to prio user etc

meanwhile dark pulse doesnt hit anything

[gleaming flower]

I need feedback on my team

https://pokepast.es/c08c80daf5cd3377

[sudden girder]

choice band protect?

tyrantrum gliscor?

[quiet salmon]

sr defog gliscor is extremely passive and just prone to being setup fodder or being counterproductive as you set hazards, the opp sets hazards, and then you have to defog so put defog somewhere else and run uturn there (also roost is much better than protect and also what modrif said tyrantrum is really bad)
alaode def wants volt switch over dazzling gleam
sylcario is bad just cause its way too weak with 95 atk, if you want a pixilate band mon dragonite is better but not by much (run espeed/dedge/fire punch/eq)
snorblade is bad bc it easily gets chipped to death so something like pory2/doublade is better for recover
absol is outclassed by weavile who has much higher spe, also wants to run choice most likely with something like knock/cc/jab/uturn
diancie looks p bad with a mediocre offensive typing with no coverage for steels, if you want a contrary leaf storm mon something like chandelure/lurantis with tr might be ok idk

[gleaming flower]

So in short, every mon in my team is garbage, got it

[sudden girder]

garbage and suboptimal are two very different things

if i may ask, how long do you play pokemon competetivly?

[quiet salmon]

alaode is v good and half the mons are just fusions of mons outclassed by other mons

[gleaming flower]

Whats the standard jirachi:tangrove set?

[sudden girder]

max hp max spdf min speed

Item : AV

Uturn, Knock, (Doom desire/Leafstorm) or any other form of its stabs

[gleaming flower]

Is this better?

https://pokepast.es/e375c83d140a31e9

[sudden girder]

absolutly

would swap crabhammer for uturn tho

[quiet salmon]

its an improvement but
gliscortoxapex has no need for atk/spe investment especially when theyre so low, just go hp/def
alaode def wants timid
tr has pretty antisynergy with the team and its not powerful enough to stand on its own so remove tr for something like twave/toxic
knock > throat chop, also lo is bad with uturn
jigrowth wants 252 hp/4 def /252 spd with sassy and 0 spe ivs

[tropic plume]

Channel Locked

🔒 Apparently discord Permissions are funky, but we are starting our lockdown per announcements, happy holidays!

[knotty star]

I want to use a Normal/Ghost type, and I can't think of a better Fusion than Blisgar (Blissey/Gengar). It's a solid tank with good speed and special attack.

[gusty burrow]

Chansey and Blissey are banned from OU

[knotty star]

where can i find the banlist? the pinned message only has abilities, items and moves

[orchid field]

On showdown all the banned mons are in Ubers/AG

[quiet salmon]

blissey/gengar would be normal/poison

[nimble peak]

https://pokepast.es/1f7b2c645d58f87c

Hows this looking?

I'm not sure how prevalant hazards are in the Metagame but Metahelmise can also be a Spinner if needed?

[quiet salmon]

hazards are prevalent in any metagame you should always have some kind of hazard control unless youre hyper offense

[nimble peak]

I'm thinking about maybe swapping Aegiancie out for ghost typing

[quiet salmon]

aegiancie looks a little underpowered - feel like 150 spa no abil is not really good enough in this meta bc steels can come in and sit on this
ferrochomp might be good but if you want it to ddance you need to fully invest in spe or it wont outspeed anything at +1
hyking is ok ig but i dont feel like dark pulse is very strong, id rather use togeking with moonblast for more power
lurlure sounds goofy but requiring scarf to outspeed anything is crippling when it wants to switch moves to hit resists
lanite looks like it has middling bulk and spa for what it does bc it still doesnt hit very hard even at +3
imo metahelmise needs power whip or else it gets walled by fat waters

i think overall this team needs a little direction bc the mons dont mesh well together

stacking 3 steels means youre very weak to fires and grounds

[nimble peak]

Yeah that pretty much sums up my thoughts with the Team

Although I've not had super issue with Bulky Waters unless they threaten Meta.

If it's allowed to Sword dance unthreatened it can punch holes (what set up mon cant though)

[quiet salmon]

they can just spam scald and cripple with burn

[nimble peak]

I guess that's true

[quiet salmon]

my advice is to take two offensive mons you like then build a defensive core around them

[nimble peak]

I guess the Question to that is, What counts for a Defensive Core?

[quiet salmon]

its just 3-4 walls who switch into most threats

and preferably have defensive utility and pivot into your attackers

[nimble peak]

I do like Ferrochomp, Not sure on the DD idea mind

Thousand Arrows is a hell of a Drug

[quiet salmon]

idk how good its gonna be but if you want a more defensive set you can use tarrows/seed/spikes/knock

[nimble peak]

You rate Spikes over Srocks?

or 6 and 2 3's?

[quiet salmon]

a bunch of mons have sr but only a few have spikes

so generally if you run ferro over say registeel youre running it for spikes

[nimble peak]

That's fair

[nimble peak]

I'm suprised Darkrai is uber

I guess even without Darkvoid. 135 spa and 125 spe are kinda cracked

[quiet salmon]

its particularly broken with nidoking

plot dark pulse sludge wave ep/fire blast kills everything

[nimble peak]

Yeah, I was looking at it in my game like "Hold up this is just a stat stick"

Dark void? Pfft who needs it

[nimble peak]

I think i just suck at this idea.

I end up getting one of the only threats killed and then slowly losing ground over like 20+ turns it feels like

[quiet salmon]

can you save a replay

[nimble peak]

Yeah Can do

Not saying Its not user error

Or that the team is good

[quiet salmon]

building skill is only half of the game so improving your playing skill can also help you win

[nimble peak]

Well it's more

I had more success with the more offensive team

[quiet salmon]

plays with a defensive team are gonna differ from plays with an offensive team so its possible that youre just not used to it

this is all abstract of course thats why i wanna see your replays

[nimble peak]

I guess the best way to decribe it is with offense i feel like i'm in charge of the tempo?

Playing with like the defensive core it felt like It like a fighting game in neutral.

That one mistake and the game was over even if it wasn't technically yet

[nimble peak]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=tenraitsubasa-m2pgalax-1735513717173
Going to start recording them when they come up.

That game was vs almost mono Rock vs Bullet punch so not much to look at

[gusty burrow]

What's your last move on Metamise?

[nimble peak]

EQ

Bullet Punch, Anchor shot, Power whip, EQ

[gusty burrow]

That set would get worn down pretty easily and doesn't have the best breaking power without SD

[quiet salmon]

yea meta has huge 4mss

ive used mash whip sd synth in uu but ou probably too offensive to use that

i do think that eq might not be needed bc steel stab hits so hard

[nimble peak]

Yeah I think SD over Eq if anything

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=squidchuckswood-tenraitsubasa-1735514486459

here's a good example of where things go south

[quiet salmon]

t6 shouldve just gone into hycruel first bc you sacked a bunch of hp on ferro for no real effect

[nimble peak]

Yeah, i just didnt expect him to Scald tbh

[quiet salmon]

scalds a staple move you should prob expect almost all defensive waters to have it

[nimble peak]

I guess? I just felt a swap would have been way more benefical for him

(not the staple, I know it is fo sure)

[quiet salmon]

there was no need to swap bc tentacruel walls it easily and denies it spikes with spin

[nimble peak]

Yeah, I realized that a lil too late

I mean I think the only reason I won was turn 10 tbh

[quiet salmon]

the enetta was a huge threat bc you dont have a fire resist so them misplaying at 22 was where you won probably

[nimble peak]

I dont think 22 did anything

Togeking Ohko's

I judt didnt think it was going to live a sacred fire

I assumed they would Drain punch

I had Sash and then Close combat would clear

..maybe?

I think the burn messes the math up

[nimble peak]

But i do have fire resist, its just it cant take a burn

[gusty burrow]

Ew sash Hydremega
If your fire resist can't take a burn, it's not a good entei switch in

[nimble peak]

Correct, I saw the entei and just sorta went

https://tenor.com/view/guess-ill-die-gif-9704573

[quiet salmon]

if its sash dianetta ig that was a loss regardless but dianetta doesnt sound good either

[nimble peak]

It's not

Im just

Throwing shit at the wall

I really like Golisopod

But idk what it does in Fusion

[quiet salmon]

in fusions its usually gliscor/pod or pex/pod

eq spikes roost uturn and scald knock/jab spikes recover respectively

[nimble peak]

Toxic Heal/ Regen?

[quiet salmon]

yeah

[nimble peak]

I do love me a Gliscor

[gusty burrow]

Good ol reliable Gliscor. You can fuse it with half the game and it will still put in work

[nimble peak]

i'm at this odd point where I'm happy with 5/6 of the team

the Dianc Slot is just "???" to me

https://pokepast.es/c3a8ee1519119010

I could Swap Chomp to a more offensive threat mon and use that and Togeking

[raven bay]

It’sa me

[nimble peak]

Hi hi

[nimble peak]

@quiet salmon https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=tenraitsubasa-scrapsorra-1735518266379 here is where I just struggle

I feel like im doing negative damage

[quiet salmon]

seems like the team itself is just weak to rain

having only meta as a check

ig thats to be expected with 3 water weaks

i also forgot to ask why defog when youre using a mon with spin

[nimble peak]

Uhhhh thats a good question

Like it's LITTERALLY the same mon

[nimble peak]

Yeah i'm just shit at dealing with Choice mons

[hexed lotus]

you're using like 3 ground type pokemon

entei isn't doing anything in the rain too...

[nimble peak]

Yeah, I quickly did some switching around

[hexed lotus]

I also used to use a hycruel

Some times as a place holder that worked a bit too well

[hexed lotus]

wanna test it against me?

[nimble peak]

Ya, gimme 2 seconds

[nimble peak]

Am ready

[chrome walrus]

Is there a quick way to check the banlist

[quiet salmon]

/tier ifdexou

[plush badger]

@hexed lotus hey could you help me out with my team please? I just finished the first version of it.

I'm hoping to use it in reg g scarlet violet when that comes back. I say reg g bc reg h will be gone by the time it's ready

[hexed lotus]

Is this for if dex ou or nat dex ou

[plush badger]

https://pokepast.es/a1bf53a63d1cb130

I think if if that's scarlet and violet

The main goal is get a lot of kills and wins with greninja

I used pikalytics and damage calcs as well

The damage calcs were done for greninja stuff

[hexed lotus]

This is the infinite fusion showdown

[plush badger]

But nothing else so far

[plush badger]

Idk where to find servers for normal showdown

[hexed lotus]

Look for smogon

[plush badger]

Ok so no go look for a server for non inf fusion showdown stuff right?

[hexed lotus]

Yeah, I don't play scarlet and violet

[sudden girder]

dumb question is this for doubles or for singles?

[plush badger]

There's a clefairy on that team 😭

This answers itself I think

https://pokepast.es/80747d382948cb0c

Current team btw

[sudden girder]

Well you also had a pex so I was a little confused

[hazy crescent]

does galewings flying press work ???

[sudden girder]

it should Correction : Flying press is a fighting type move first and as such does not trigger galewings

[quiet salmon]

no it doesnt

[hazy crescent]

is sandrush + sandstream still legal

[sudden girder]

Absolutly as Haxorous sandslash is a metagame threat

[hexed lotus]

@sudden girder btw, using sandslash salamence helped me once because the other guy was using spikes

[quiet salmon]

interesting choice but it really misses fighting coverage

[median zenith]

Is Haxorus Ninjask interesting in any way ? Something with Haxorus’s attack and Speed Boost ?

[sudden girder]

Speed boost is bannend

While this fusion does have good offensive stats, its stabs are subpaar as they both get hard walled by steels and fairies : Additionally its bulk is horrendos, leaving it vulnerable to be revenge killed via strong priority.

[median zenith]

That’s fair yeah

[hazy crescent]

how does the multi attack work if the memory are banned items ???

[quiet salmon]

they only appear as banned

should validate if selected

[hexed lotus]

Sandslash misses the fighting coverage?

[bitter flax]

What all things are banned, like is spore/prankster or wonder guard and such banned

[sudden girder]

Top of my head :

Abilities : Wonder guard, Disguise, Imposter, huge power are all bannend, also complex ban for drought + chlorophyl as well as drizzle + swift swim

Pokemons : All Ubers, Ditto, Blissey/Chansey Regigias

Moves : Spore, V-Create, Boomburst, Belly drum, Shell smash

Mightve missed something

[gusty burrow]

Slaking (Regigigas 2.0), Geomancy

The pinned message isn't exactly up to date

[sudden girder]

Now i am reminiscing bout the time where people used bibarel/celebi and got a simple boosted geomancy...
only to thud against my unaware.

I once even used a Spdf bastiodon/Clef fusion with soundproof to kind of check the common PoryZ/Noivern fusion

[wooden spire]

Protean and Volcarona are banned as well no ?

[sudden girder]

protean isnt, Volcarona is

[wooden spire]

My bad x)

[edgy eagle]

Hey everyone, someone can ask to me a good Pokémon except fab/leg in strat 9G

[quiet salmon]

wtf is fab/leg

[rotund flume]

Fab/leg is fab/leg

[raven bay]

Do you think disguise could come back? Or how was it banned?

[quiet salmon]

its banned bc in if it regenerates on switchout

[round fern]

let me cook

100% acc 60% flinch

[sudden girder]

252 Atk Guts Ursaring Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 271-321 (92.4 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

This is inedible

[round fern]

what do you use for calcs?

[sudden girder]

that one

its pretty niffty

[round fern]

yo that is sick I didnt know it existed for IF

[sudden girder]

the more you know

[round fern]

indeed

[quiet salmon]

besides getting outsped by prio (not the highest priority for a mon ironically) it just does no damage

sure you can flinch a bunch but it doesnt matter at all if regen mons can just take 5 hits and then leave

[round fern]

true

[sudden girder]

has Zing zap plus 2 prio like espeed or plus 1 like Quick attack?

[quiet salmon]

no

[round fern]

tbh I know nothing of the meta I just like to make meme teams

or iguess meme mons

[quiet salmon]

if you want a serene grace mon try jirachi haxorus

it can actually make progress using dd

[round fern]

here is another one that prob sucks

dies to mach punch prob

[sudden girder]

you do know that absol/melo P is right there, right?

[round fern]

oh right

[sudden girder]

its faster and has better stab

[pastel talon]

Is there a doubles meta or does everyone focus on singles?

[sudden girder]

You sometimes see double tournaments, but its 99% Singles

but weakly double tours are a thing

[pastel talon]

Figured. I was cooking up doubles and noticed only singles

[sudden girder]

but in this chat its basically all singles

[round fern]

doesnt get cross chop tho
252 Atk Absol Cross Chop vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Geodude: 326-386 (147.5 - 174.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Absol Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Geodude: 242-288 (109.5 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

sure it gets cc

which is better

but no guaranteed crit

oh wait

is cc even better

[sudden girder]

cross chop has 80% acc no?

Chop is stronger but Cc more consistent, make with this info what you want

[round fern]

its like thunder vs thunderbolt

kinda

[sudden girder]

except there is no rain

[round fern]

true

[rotund flume]

Was laddering IF dex earlier tonight, any dd jirachi is funny

[quiet salmon]

the gimmick is just not that good bc ur investing so much into critting for 1.5x dmg when you can just hold band for the same boost and not have to use an abil

bc absol is really mid

[round fern]

okay but what about this

boom now its totaly worth it

[quiet salmon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/862940088122867722/1239231952792584222/skull-Trim-ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[round fern]

lmao

[sudden girder]

If you can somehow get a focus energy, with a racor claw equiped, and not thud into 4x resist an immunities, dodge all the burns this mon might do something

[round fern]

I only know how to make bad gimmick teams tbh

this is prob my best team

https://pokepast.es/703e9c59d0028b9f

it was made for actually playing the game though

this is the gimmick btw

[rotund flume]

I'm surprised you're dropping serene grace on jimence

[round fern]

Haha yeah

[rotund flume]

Also forgot sheer force on the Magmortar

[round fern]

Oh my bad it's supposed to have it

[hexed lotus]

No hazard control?

it's not prepared for weather either

[raven yew]

Peak or not peak?

[raven bay]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-cat-huh-m4rtin-huh-huh-meme-what-cat-gif-3683811735891573923

[raven yew]

This was a joke

It’s cause I love rowlet

[raven bay]

That’s chill

[round fern]

I said it was my best team not that it was good

[snow pike]

levitate on latioeon is better, you already 4x resist water

and aqua jet would be better as something else, i get having priority is nice but it doesn't have enough attack to make it worth it 90% of the time over something like coverage or a support option

[uneven lodge]

What are some of the strongest SpA fusions right now?

[sudden girder]

Nidoking is your friend.
With gengar, Delphox, Togekiss or Noyvern

[uneven lodge]

Isn’t nidoking more a physical attacker?

[sudden girder]

not with sheerforce

as most special attacks have a secondary effect that allows sheer force to boost them while many Physical attacks lack that property.
(Earth power vs earthquake)

[gleaming flower]

Concept for a gimic Pokémon

https://pokepast.es/ec0506f147ffec58

[quiet salmon]

tera fire means burn up does not remove the fire typing

[gleaming flower]

Welp

[snow pike]

i mean only one weakness isnt that big of a deal, you can just use shedthorn which is less of a gimmick because it works immediately and on switchings and stuff

[stable umbra]

Statblock honchkrow/shedinja

[frosty garnet]

Honchkrow/Shedinja

Dark/Ghost

• HP: 67
• ATK: 101
• DEF: 47
• SP. ATK: 80
• SP. DEF: 44
• SPD: 50
  BST total: 389

Shedinja/Honchkrow

Bug/Flying

• HP: 34
• ATK: 113
• DEF: 49
• SP. ATK: 55
• SP. DEF: 37
• SPD: 60
  BST total: 348

[stable umbra]

Let me know what you guys think

Honchinja dark/ghost type
With wonder guard 🦀❓

I use honchkrow cause it has a high atk stat to boost shedinja atk stat also, and dark/ghost type for only one weakness 🦀

What's a good build for this Fusionmon 🦀❓

My idea is 🦀

Substitute
Sword dance
Phantom force
Sucker punch/foul play

[quiet salmon]

its bad sableye is better

you shouldnt setup with shed bc its too easy to force out with imp/fairy mon/fat wall with status

on the other hand sab has pain split to halve the opps hp

[raven bay]

It does get endeavor and you can use it in If gen 9 ag tho

Plus taunt

But Alolan Persian could be better

[quiet salmon]

in if dex no dark has endeavor
in ndag persian alola has knock so its better

[serene lichen]

how is doublade legal in IF Dex because you can make almost anything an unkillable monster just by fusing with it.

this quagsire is particularly potent cause unaware makes it virtually unkillable outside of strong special attacks

you do have to be wary of knock off but even after that its still physically bulky and its not like it just dies after losing the eviolite

[sudden girder]

do you see that spdf?
Doublade also cant do much vs Uturn spam,
Its also weak to every hazard,Knock, Status and pursuit

[hexed lotus]

I wouldn't say it's that vulnerable to pursuit because of the big defense

[sudden girder]

the dmg does stack up quickly

and recovery turns are exploitable

[serene lichen]

that spdf is not that low with eviolite (enough to not get 2 hit ko unless its especially strong or super effective) although I don't really play actually strong opponents most of the time so I haven't been able to test against people that actually use hazards. I don't think its pursuit week with eviolite intact it would probably take 50% max even when switching (strongest pursuit you can think of everything else will do considerably less)

[serene lichen]

not when you are traped and asleep

yes but it does have flaws I am not saying it doesn't but the fact it takes 30% from dragonite ursaring guts flame orb shadow claw is criminal if its not super effective it does litterally nothing

and that Qaugsire is probably not the bulkest fusion I just use it cause the types match nicely with my team

[sudden girder]

trapping is very weak in this meta

since Pivot moves are everywhere

[serene lichen]

but the fact it can trap with a move means that if you stay in on it you may just be force to lose the mon nothing you can do

if you don't have switch move or ghost type

for setup sweepers and such

they don't run switch move

usually

[sudden girder]

Oh yes for most physical setup sweepers this is a nightmare, but just like Blissey has been a nightmare for many special attackers, Doublade fusions 100% arent immovable

it has counterplay

[serene lichen]

its different from blissey in the way that its not just a blob it does actuall damage since doublade has a 110 base atack stat and spectral thief is such a good move that it even works against special attacking steup sweepers my quag one is not that good for that since is spedef is low ish but you can fuse it with stuff that has higher sdf stats

[sudden girder]

You could fuse it with a non unaware fusion, but that makes you vulnerable to fusions like Snorcor or Ursanite.

While it is a strong move its very predictable and punishable with things like Rocky helmet,Ironbarbs or flamebody.

If an opponent uses a set up even though quag is infront of it they are simply put a bad player.

And for your argument with quag being able to tank strong special attacks :

252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 421-499 (113.7 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

this is with eviolite btw

[serene lichen]

I will say I haven't played any tournaments these are just my feelings from laddering every now and again maybe against better opponents that actually come prepared for it may feel less broken

[sudden girder]

I mean the fusion is strong, just not broken as counterplay is plenty

[serene lichen]

I don't primarily use it as a special wall its just an out of jail free card agaist a non super effective setup sweeper

[sudden girder]

Its made for that

[serene lichen]

with just a little investment you can live that

I mean it does do over half but that is a stab (I changed the type to electric) life orb super effective move coming off of base 135 spa

it even lives moddest

[serene lichen]

you forgot that the eviolite isn't taken into account on quagsire

or something

[sudden girder]

srry bout that

however it still leaves it low and in a position where it need to recover, but its low speed means it has to tank another attack before it can do that

You do not defeat this fusion by bursting it down, but rather by never letting it rest and always forcing it out

[quiet salmon]

first of all sclaw is wholly outclassed by crunch and second the set you posed doesnt do anything back so the ursanite wins

doublade is the kind of thing where you cant just throw random atks at it and hope that you ko it but you have a bunch of options at your disposal whether that be regen cycling, hazard stack, normal setup mons, etc

any special attacker worth their salt will 2hko it

knock its eviolite and it becomes a run of the mill physical wall

[wooden spire]

Eviolite is a 50% bonus or a 25% one ?

[gusty burrow]

50%

[wooden spire]

I read here that if only one half of the fusion was not fully evolved, it was only 25% ; if it's not the case, it's really stronger than I thought

[red spear]

that's a common misconception

it's always 50%

[wooden spire]

Okey, ty !

[gleaming flower]

What is the standard set for Zekyushiram?

[quiet salmon]

none bc Its Bad

[uneven lodge]

Any good fusions with Volcarona? Trying to find one that keeps its ability to abuse its move set and SpA while keeping it as a nice offensive unit

[quiet salmon]

in ubers reshiram volc is probably ok

or groundceus or something

[calm arch]

Building a team that I can build around Giratina/Darkrai (dark Ghost). Any good ideas?

[sudden girder]

maybe a Calm mind set up sweeper in a sun team that uses boosted moonlight recovery for longevity while having moongeist as Stab that beats unaware and white smoke so your boost cannot be hazed away.
(Would spectral thief
eliminate the boosts?)

[quiet salmon]

white smoke does not prevent haze

or specthief for that matter

[sudden girder]

aw damn

[slim canopy]

really silly meloetta build i came up with while playthrough teambuilding,,,,

[hexed lotus]

no recover?

[slim canopy]

oh im supposed to do that?

[quiet salmon]

if you dont have recover the opp can just kill you before they die to psong

[slim canopy]

damn

hmm

what can i replace then

[quiet salmon]

twaves/infestation psong recover scald

but meloetta isnt the best mon here id rather go celebi

[uneven lodge]

Any criticisms will be greatly appreciated:]

As this is my first design into builds for fused mons

[sterile glacier]

A tanky Pokemon with no real recovery will inevitably be worn down by opponents who all will have it.

And on top of that weakness, Regizing is also extremely easy to wall and set up on.

[gusty burrow]

Sub doesn't work that well with it, its too slow to use as a safeguard against status and it leaves it with only EQ as an attacking move, which makes it very easy to wall and stall out

Togekiss also gets Moonblast in IF

[uneven lodge]

Moon blast over gleam I presume?

[gusty burrow]

yes

[hexed lotus]

isn't volcarona banned

[sterile glacier]

Not in Ubers

[uneven lodge]

😆

[lime iron]

Is there a general guide to team building or something?
I wanted to try out raising a competitive team in-game, since I never did it in a regular pokemon game, but I don't want to spend hours building a pokemon and then realizing it's bad ahahah

[sudden girder]

I mean there are guides to teambuilding out there. (I advise pinkacross on yt for example)
But if you want to build a team for IF you prolly want to ask around here as ressources are quite limited

[lime iron]

got it, thanks!

[hexed lotus]

In game it's kinda hard because items like toxic orb and flame orb are very late game, and there's a lot of legendary Pokémon in ou

And a lot of egg moves too

[lime iron]

I mean, I'm in the post-game, and I'm literally one pokemon from finishing the pokedex lmao
I guess the only thing that is stopping me is that... there is not much reason to do that tbh, I think I'll wait for the next official pokemon game to try out competitive pokemon building ahahah

[hexed lotus]

Then I'd say regigigas moltres is a good starting point. Flame body and will o wisp cripples a lot of mons

And then go weather. Sand sun or rain

Sun has entei with Vcreate or venutoizard with chlorophyll.
And alakazam electrode with magic guard mind blown

Or just .. shedinja

Togekiss also gets shell smash

And whimsicott gets spore

[lime iron]

weren't spore and vcreate banned? I didn't research in depth so I may be wrong

[sudden girder]

they are bannend in Showdown online play.
But obviously the endgame content of the game has no bans

[quiet salmon]

regigigas ⁉️

[hexed lotus]

Oops, registeel

[inner pulsar]

you really need a master in engineering to make teambuilding ?

[sudden girder]

no but you need understanding of :
what are the most common playstyles
what playstyles exist
how these playstyle interact with each other
What pkmn fit on which playstyles

[urban prawn]

Dang it, I gotta wait two years before I can teambuild

[snow pike]

What does steelix contribute to quaglix apart from stats?

[gusty burrow]

STATS

And phasing and rocks but mainly STATS

[inner pulsar]

Guys I plan putting a Koraidon in a Sun based team, what moves should I put ?

and uhh, item ?

[hexed lotus]

I mean, steelix has like 200 defense, so yes, STATS

[hazy crescent]

is this not supposed to be a grass steal type ???

I remember things differently

[raven bay]

Reverse it

Also, how does nature power work besides terrains

[quiet salmon]

if no terrain then it calls tri attack

[gusty burrow]

The different typings sometimes change every few updates for no reason whatsoever

[raven bay]

ferrothorn had the worst of it I think, grass usually fused with it as the head till the update, now it’s steel.

[sterile glacier]

Yeah, and it's a lot less desirable as grass than as steel. I feel like half the reason Registeel is so good is that it guarantees the steel type

[gusty burrow]

Rip Clefable/Ferrothorn

[hazy crescent]

what do we think https://pokepast.es/9b08d6839c999188

main thoughts from me are I thought ancient power had more pp tbh, thought's it would be fun over toxic

[quiet salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/rip-bozo-gif-22294771

[terse fog]

how good is fighting rock as a typing

[sudden girder]

Offensivly terrific defensivly bad not awful

[sterile glacier]

Yeah pretty much. Two of the best offensive typings, and they cover each other's bad matchups well

But they have all the weaknesses

Also it's hard to make a good fusion because most of them in IF are slow

Which isn't great when you can't take a hit

[sudden girder]

Melo P/ lycan midnight is quite alright

[brittle nest]

for your consideration:
midday lycanroc with sand rush

(only in a sandstorm team of course)

[hexed lotus]

does a mon that fast need sand rush?

[raven bay]

Seems like sandslash could be better cause of thousand arrows, but that’s just me

[hexed lotus]

yeah that's pretty right

[gusty burrow]

Yes, to outrun scarfers.

[sterile glacier]

It doesn’t have a more useful ability, and more speed is never useless

[gusty burrow]

Barraskewda in the rain is a menace because theres literally no way to outspeed it (apart from trick room ig)

[sudden girder]

getting 50% Dmg boost on its STAB certainly doesnt hurt

[terse fog]

okay thanks

[sudden girder]

I would like to make a cresselia team, but I do not know any good Cress fusions. (Besides the clef one but thats cheating)
Has anyone experience with using cress?

[hexed lotus]

looking at cress, it has 3 good things. It's beefy and got levitate and lunar dance

[sudden girder]

i need a mon that gives it utility and a good dual typing

and the only one I know of is clef

[hexed lotus]

thing is, clef already got lunar dance and better abilities

[hexed lotus]

what about muk?

it's got recover

[hexed lotus]

what do you think of shuckle? Cress has moonlight, but that can work in sun teams

[sudden girder]

psychic rock and bug psychic are some of the worst typings known to man

as for muk, it just doesnt have enough utility

[raven bay]

Moonlight solar team possibly?

[quiet salmon]

ive used moltres cress as a togeking counter

[sudden girder]

how did you deal with the rocks weakness?

[quiet salmon]

just have a fogger

or a spinner

[sudden girder]

Why would you need cresstres if slowphan also walls togeking?

[quiet salmon]

only king does and i didnt have it on the team

additionally it loses to plot sets and relies on its item and can get forced out with repeated hits

[calm arch]

any good examples of competitive teams?

[hexed lotus]

any theme in particular? sand? sun? rain?

[hexed lotus]

or you can check the replays here to see if someone's using something you want

[calm arch]

where are these replays located

[hexed lotus]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/

[hexed lotus]

if you're looking for examples, check the top of the ladder. You'll find players like anaconja there

[calm arch]

thx

[hexed lotus]

I won't really give you a team, but I can tell you what every team needs

• weather is infinite here, so if you don't use it it will be used against you
• swift swim and chlorophyll are banned, but sand rush isn't. sand slash is in an unique position because it has sand rush and thousand arrows and stab on it
• Hazard control is pretty important here. So having rapid spin and/or defog is pretty important, also magic bounce can work if you're smart

[frosty garnet]

Something went wrong when running this command, either discord or the bot may be having issues.

[hexed lotus]

• You might want a way to fight the quiver dancers and special attackers in this tier. alakazam electrode, hydreigon yanmega, or even celebi or jirachi with clefable can be hard to deal with

• priority is very useful

[solar token]

what’s a good fuse for deoxysis

pvp wise

[gleaming flower]

https://pokepast.es/19fa7db51157d7e8
i know this team sucks, pls help me improve it

[icy scroll]

Dark pulse on frog ninja

Remove psychic

[gleaming flower]

U sure?

[quiet salmon]

rain is infinite so no need for rock
you dont have a strong enough rain abuser to justify running rain

something like specs blastoise jolteon would be good

[gusty burrow]

Snorblade looks really easy to chip down with status or just repeated attacks, especially with no wish support

[gleaming flower]

What Pokémon would you replace it with?

[gusty burrow]

I'm not sure if you value the ghost immunity or normal immunity more, but you could make it Salamance/Doublade and change the garchomp to a different fusion like gyarados/garchomp?

[hexed lotus]

let's see, diancie aegislash has no recovery, snorblade has no recovery salachomp gets stiffled by registres

I feel like I should put this team in the samples. It feels so good
https://pokepast.es/43eddee60a40fa56

[gusty burrow]

The team looks pretty solid imo 👍

No water resist hurts though

[gleaming flower]

https://pokepast.es/c38c22e4a08b16a7
my improved team

What else could i do?

[gusty burrow]

Umbreon/Whimsicott is light clay without screens?

[quiet salmon]

blastoise for sure needs volt switch

meanwhile shadow ball doesnt hit anything

[gleaming flower]

?

It has reflect?

[gusty burrow]

No it has Refresh

Though your team also doesn't benefit from screens

No setup

[gleaming flower]

Luretta

And aegislash

[gusty burrow]

Luretta doesn't really count as setup, and Aegis isn't strong enough offensively to threaten with CM

[hexed lotus]

my regitres would burn that luretta like a marshmallow

and zappy should use rain dish

[gleaming flower]

How is 150 base not strong enough

[hexed lotus]

that does nothing against all the flying steels around

and it's got no recovery

[gleaming flower]

Hmmm

[gleaming flower]

Wish from fluffy and lefties

[hexed lotus]

oh yeah

wanna test how it plays against my team

[gleaming flower]

Maybe switch earthpower for secret sword?

[gleaming flower]

darksquidtwitch

[hexed lotus]

yeah waiting for you to be online

[gleaming flower]

I am

[hexed lotus]

illusion911

[quiet salmon]

it just isnt plus its easy to whittle down since it has no recovery

with all the eviolite possibilities youre not doing dmg

[hollow snow]

is there a strategy guide for "i want to pick something to fuse to (my pokemon of choice) that will best increase the stats of the fusion"?

as far as what order to do the math in i guess

[quiet salmon]

if mon you want is head: find high atk/def/spe

if mon you want is body: find high hp/spa/spd

thats all the math you need if you want raw stats

[forest marsh]

Crap

Sorry

Hey guys which format to I need to export to?

On showdonw

To play my team as it is?

[red spear]

If you want to play your team as-is, IF Dex AG is the safest bet. However, depending on your team, you could also try IF Dex OU

[weak sable]

Do you have a list of fusions banned in Ubers somewhere? I'd like to create the most powerful Pokémon possible for a solo adventure.

[gleaming flower]

https://pokepast.es/3e8cb7d1d2a162ad

my first try at a trickroom team

Pls help me improve it

[hexed lotus]

sun, sand... And trick room?

not to mention your ttar takes damage from sand

and nothing for hazard control

[brittle nest]

wait sand stream doesn't block sand damage inherently?

that's kinda fucked lmao

sand rush / veil / force all block sand damage without typing, I expected sand stream to do the same

[gleaming flower]

I thought that too

[quiet salmon]

just look the ag/ubers mons in if dex ag

or /tier if dex ubers or if dex ou

[quiet salmon]

you definitely need more than one trick room user

most tr teams have at least 3 if theyre not semiroom

[gleaming flower]

https://pokepast.es/f2b0782f601cb8df

[gleaming flower]

Is this better?

[gusty burrow]

Imo theres really only one TR abuser thats designed to click a button 6 times and get 6 kos with specs togekoal, the team isn't threatening enough under TR

Also your entire team can have a smidge more evs

[quiet salmon]

needs more pivots cause no good way to get your tr abusers in without them getting chunked

and yeah even the tr setters ae a little weak besides togekiss

[quaint osprey]

Go to infinitefusiondex.com, search the pokemon you want to fuse at the top, then use the sort function on the right to sort for the stat you want/stat total.

[gusty burrow]

Though keep in mind it won't factor in abilities like Adaptability/Technician etc

[hexed lotus]

well, I guess my sand team can be defeated if the other guy starts using trapping like magnezone and pursuit
https://pokepast.es/3c78435d4cc095d4

[toxic saddle]

thx guys i got on!

[toxic egret]

The minimum number of damage types you need to kill every type combo for wonder guard is Fire, Dark, Fairy, Rock, and (Ghost or Steel). You can substitute Rock for Flying and (Water or Steel). You can substitute Flying for Electric and Water.

So while the minimum number of types is five the largest number of relevant types are Fire, Dark, Fairy, Ghost, Electric, and Water... 6.

[brittle nest]

or just... will-o-wisp

or any other indirect damage

[toxic egret]

What indirect damage do you usually take?

[brittle nest]

entry hazards, status effects, hail / sandstorm, confusion...

[toxic egret]

I know what indirect damage is but how many sources do you usually bring?

[brittle nest]

depends on the team. I try to set rocks and/or spikes on most teams (toxic spikes are too easy to clear imo)

if I'm making a sand team, I bring sand, believe it or not

[sterile glacier]

Just bring something with Mold Breaker, Teravolt, or Turboblaze

If you're fighting Wonder Guard, you're in Ubers, so Reshiram and Zekrom are right there

[raven bay]

Or sunsteel strike or moongheist beam

[hexed lotus]

sunsteel strike at least hits everything neutral

[sterile glacier]

Pretty sure anything with Wonder Guard will have 1 HP, so any amount of damage will be enough

[unkempt flare]

You could have also brought stuff like hail, sandstorm. Stuff like that

[left zealot]

can someone trade me a marill or one of that line

hello

[gusty burrow]

This is for IF showdown, also I don't think Infinite Fusion has trading

[eternal basalt]

Tried to make a team real quick, no idea what I'm doing for now

Any input appreciated:
https://pokepast.es/41f336487937d9b5

[compact pebble]

I think dragonite is a better fusion for tangrowth

Oh I see

[gusty burrow]

Jirachi/Toxapex should be min speed to get the slowest u-turns possible

[compact pebble]

https://pokepast.es/70e500fa8fa088c3

as you can perhaps tell from the name I am throwing things at the wall to see what sticks

[sudden girder]

I get the plan with klingther but Steel/flying just isnt a great offensive pairing as its hard walled by steels

Kroksire would be really good in regular play, but here in fusions pivoting moves are everywhere so I do belive you will face to many players where you just cant trap anything (or you trap things that OHKO you)

[gleaming flower]

Does anybody know if using amnesia or nasty plot in shield form, grant more spatk after switching forms?

[brittle nest]

stance change does not swap stat stages

so, if you want spatk, you'd use Nasty Plot

[gleaming flower]

Stabby (Aegislash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Fusion: Diancie
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature

• Nasty Plot
• King's Shield
• Moonblast
• Earth Power

[gleaming flower]

Is this maximum for special damage?

[brittle nest]

... why sassy, is my first thought

[gleaming flower]

I thought the stats get completely swap in Pokéathlon

So i put +spdef -spe

[brittle nest]

that would just get swapped to +spatk -spe iirc

[gleaming flower]

So i should use a +spatk nature?

[brittle nest]

no, use a +spdef nature if you want high spatk with stance change, just... not sassy, unless you're deliberately trying to have low speed for some reason

[gleaming flower]

I have it to go after other aegislash

Also to have a bit more physical bulk after switching

[compact pebble]

there are quite a few steel flying types running around, and king's shield isn't very useful if you want to set up

[compact pebble]

https://pokepast.es/bf6698a9458b7482

I'm most unsure about Quagbi's moveset

[sudden girder]

drop leech for rocks

also why latios xatu? isnt latias better here?

[compact pebble]

latias came first alphabetically

[compact pebble]

https://pokepast.es/bb666c63a14502d1
final form for now

also I need to give it a real name

[gusty burrow]

Donphan/Entei seems a bit odd, its gonna get worn down pretty quickly and doesn't exert enough pressure for an offensive spinner

[compact pebble]

I needed something that could tank fire and electric

[sterile glacier]

The humble water/ground:

[compact pebble]

water ground still can't switch in to mind blown in sunlight

[raven bay]

Kid named slowking/donphan, could it eat two of those?

[hexed lotus]

I don't think there's much that can deal with the combo of mind blown volt switch and energy ball that well

Ok some dragons can

[quiet salmon]

not like fire ground does any better

[compact pebble]

flash fire

[quiet salmon]

mash fire

what dusk said basically

[quartz slate]

chat hear me out

registeel with hydreigon

hear me out

[sudden girder]

Sure its hard to kill, but what does it do?

<100 attack and Spa arent impressive and its movepool is lacking knock off

[hexed lotus]

nah, it just exists

it can roost, uturn

I guess it can defog

[quartz slate]

d dance aswell

[hexed lotus]

on hydreigon registeel?

[sudden girder]

I repeat below 100 base attack

[quiet salmon]

already used this before its alright

decent pivot bot who checks rain mons

[quartz slate]

yeah

[quiet salmon]

dd is bad on it

bad offensive typing esp when you dont have draco unlike jirachi hydreigon which ive tried

and the aforementioned <100 atk and low spe

[eternal basalt]

Milotress (Milotic) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
Fusion: Forretress
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Volt Switch
• Recover
• Dragon Tail/Haze/Defog/Rapid Spin
• Scald/Spikes/Toxic

I think I'm cooking with this, but I'm too new to this format to tell yet

555 phys def with 370 hp water/steel, on a status immune knock absorber with slow pivoting, reliable recovery + any utility your team might want can't be bad though right?

[compact pebble]

Looks good to me but I’m generally bad at Pokémon

[compact pebble]

https://pokepast.es/3d3db929d1bfae7f

Chandeltur is there mainly to stop me getting wiped in rain

[quiet salmon]

flame orb marvel scale is mid because while you boost your def you actually lose a lot of longevity from burn chip

if you want status/knock absorber use ph

[raven bay]

Also what about steelix? Seems like it has better def +water/ground typing

[compact pebble]

no pivot or hazard removal though

[quiet salmon]

its a p bad hazard removal though

[compact pebble]

yeah but that's why you would use it over steelix

[eternal basalt]

it can also get defog from milotic, but yeah I chose forre over steelix for the pivoting

[eternal basalt]

"Did I cook" vol2:

dedicated steel+flying/levitate wall killer, might be too niche but I feel like there must be a few mons that will enjoy being supported by this

(zoroark is the only mon that can give imprison+u-turn, and no magnet pull mon learns either of these)

[sudden girder]

Its unique ill give you that.
But wouldnt a simple overheat from a magmortar/Magnezone do the trick ?

the problem with trapping isnt the steel surviving and then escaping but rather getting the trap of in the first place

[eternal basalt]

Yeah honestly just anything with magnet pull + volt switch (aka everything with magnet pull) can probably do the same job

[sudden girder]

Only mag has pull here

and probopass

[cursive vine]

call me insane, i dare you

[sudden girder]

I wont call you insane, just at the wrong place since this is for Infinite fusio showdown only.
You might want to post this in the pokeathlon discord

[hexed reef]

I'm running a snorlax/aegislash fusion with 252+ def, how would y'all allocate the rest of the EVs?

[limpid basin]

252 in hp and play him with amnesia?

[raven bay]

What about using doublade + eviolite w secret sword? (Ik eviolite won’t effect secret swords damage)

[hexed lotus]

Isn't a secret sword special?

[eternal basalt]

Speaking of eviolite, what happens when an eviolite mon has stance change? I assume the bonuses don't transfer to the attack stats?

[sly thicket]

I’d assume not no

Anyone got ideas on a good mon for harvest? Snorlax/trevenant would be perfect if it learned knock off but it seems to lose hard to eviolite setups/ any physical wall that is neutral to fighting

[hexed lotus]

harvest mons are weak to knock though

[sly thicket]

oh for sure, just wanted to see if anyone found anything that's better than that combo with harvest is all lol. wanted a normal/ghost for my sun team but couldnt find anything else

yknow, other than the obligatory snorlax/duoblade lol. wanted something that helped against stall and harvest seemed really good at that in theory

[hexed lotus]

I've seen miltank before, because of milk drink

[sly thicket]

there any other reason behind that other than milk drink? or is miltank paired with trevenant for that reason?

[hexed lotus]

good enough stats, and it's a normal type with recovery
you can go porygon2 as well

[sly thicket]

ohhh that makes sense. is that the reason why you'd choose it over snorlax i'd take it?

[hexed lotus]

Recovery is huge
Snorlax in comparison has nothing but stats
Little setup, no recovery

[vital compass]

Yo

[wooden topaz]

Hi

[misty crow]

https://pokepast.es/852f74505fd6ec68 My first go at a team, any tips (specific to this team and in general)

[limpid basin]

How do you guys play against the perpetual climates?

[void willow]

I think it's a pretty solid team, but Tentafable seems a bit passive; any Ghost type can just sit in front of you to spinblock you and you won't be able to do anything against them; many of the spinners in this meta tend to carry knock to prevent this kind of stuff, so that's something you can think about

[misty crow]

Yep, playtesting did show the same observation

[sudden girder]

bring your own climate
stack multiple defensive answers.
Use Ursanite, as most offensive weather abusers cant stomach Espeeds well.

[misty crow]

How does tentados sound? Go without either haze or tox spikes, and adding another pivot to the team

Currently struggling against sheer force BoltBeam, and this should address that too

[sudden girder]

dumb question shouldnt shadow ball be a better pick then hex since it gets the sheerforce boost?

[misty crow]

Right, that's me being dumb

[sudden girder]

also small tip : one of the best defensive pivots is max def eviolite clefclops which walls all versions of Sylvanite except for a banded double edge.

Do you want to use Sylvanite as a breaker or more of a sweeper?

[misty crow]

I was thinking of more of a sweeper / revenge killer