#showdown-teambuilding | Pokémon Infinite Fusion | Page 16

gentle pine Dec 22, 2023, 6:39 PM

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And I don't know of any common fire type ones

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 6:39 PM

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the best espeed abuser is guts

gentle pine Dec 22, 2023, 6:39 PM

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that is unfortunate

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Dragonite and what? Or Arceus and what?

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 6:39 PM

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arceus in ndou ⁉️

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its dragonite ursaluna

gentle pine Dec 22, 2023, 6:39 PM

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makes sense

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Sounds relatively frail though

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Ursa has bad defenses

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Problem is living

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 6:40 PM

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idk what ur talking about ursaluna has 130/105/80 bulk

gentle pine Dec 22, 2023, 6:41 PM

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I was thinking about fukkin Ursaring for whatever reason, my b

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But hey

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My Scyther/Garganacl walls it pretty well

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I imagine the drag/luna would probably have Espeed, EQ, Roost maybe, and Protect?

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If not protect, another coverage move?

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 8:52 PM

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idk eq or something

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best hydrapple thing i can think of

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regen probably better but i had regen on the team already

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 9:49 PM

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supersweet syrup + magma storm

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Ig

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 9:50 PM

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supersweet is terrible

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worse compound eyes and only once a battle

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:09 PM

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Only reason i dont like sticky hold is because knock off keeps doing double damage

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Eviolite on rotom ferrothorn does notbing

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Idk if I used the right Pokémon

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But team update

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:12 PM

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i've been seeing a lot of success with this set

median marlin Dec 22, 2023, 10:13 PM

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snow pike Eviolite on rotom ferrothorn does notbing

oh yea rotom has forms

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:14 PM

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lyric pewter i've been seeing a lot of success with this set

Seems like a bit of a waste of ursaluna, considering how good it is

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:14 PM

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it's not a waste trust me

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this mon does its job well

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:15 PM

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I assume you click salt cure vs hazard and veil leads

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And explosion vs offense

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:15 PM

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if your opponent leads a mon with an unfavorable matchup you can get rocks, a salt cure, and an explosion off

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:16 PM

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Does it have endure?

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:16 PM

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it actually can learn endure

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that's a decent other option to protect

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i think both have their merits

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:17 PM

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Might be a tiny bit more useful in this case

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:17 PM

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the ideal scenario involves sturdy going off anyway

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:17 PM

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I didn't notice it lol

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Tbh if I see garganacl I'm not clicking ohko move I'm clicking ~~toxic~~ setup moves

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:18 PM

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then it explodes your setup mon

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ghost types aren't real btw

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:18 PM

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as always

graceful imp Dec 22, 2023, 10:19 PM

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quiet salmon best hydrapple thing i can think of

bro usin sticky hold 💀

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 10:19 PM

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unknockable boots is pretty valuable

graceful imp Dec 22, 2023, 10:19 PM

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fair
i just think regenerator is much more valuable

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 10:19 PM

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as i said

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i had a regen mon already

graceful imp Dec 22, 2023, 10:20 PM

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quiet salmon i had a regen mon already

i used to be a filthy regen core spammer so i stand by my statement

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 10:20 PM

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its ndou i can only use one

graceful imp Dec 22, 2023, 10:20 PM

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oh wait, there's ability clause in ndou?

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i haven't run into an issue yet

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so I didnt know

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:21 PM

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If you really really hate ghost types

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:21 PM

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custap explosion is the main draw of gargaluna

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and sturdy explosion allows it to be an emergency answer to amphafey

snow pike Dec 22, 2023, 10:22 PM

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They should make an ability that gives priority to self destruct misty explosion mind blown and explosion

graceful imp Dec 22, 2023, 10:23 PM

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snow pike They should make an ability that gives priority to self destruct misty explosion...

Short Fuse: Explosion moves gain +1 priority when below half health

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that could be an idea

lyric pewter Dec 22, 2023, 10:23 PM

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signature ability of electrode

graceful imp Dec 22, 2023, 10:23 PM

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lul yeah

normal bay Dec 22, 2023, 11:49 PM

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Can someone elaborate why in Gen07 jynx can not learn lovely kiss?

quiet salmon Dec 22, 2023, 11:59 PM

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bug

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:20 AM

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what do you mean bug?

quiet salmon Dec 23, 2023, 12:41 AM

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glitch

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:48 AM

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can you elaborate how this glitch/bug came to happening

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 12:51 AM

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he isnt the dev

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tf you want him to do

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:53 AM

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Well I'd like him to elaborate how he got the information

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like oh yeah here is a link where the dev said this is a bug

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or send this is a statement and we decided to ban lovely kiss

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 12:54 AM

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if it was banned it'd say so

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:55 AM

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and I do not understand how such a bug or glitch or comes to happen too like maybe some speculations like they changed hail to snow and this screwed with the data and therefore lovely kiss is not avaiable

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 12:55 AM

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the recover thing is also a bug

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because it says it's in the moveset despite it not being legal for some reason

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:55 AM

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so the devs do not know it

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 12:56 AM

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the devs have gotten hit by like 3 reports

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:56 AM

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it could be a feature

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 12:56 AM

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this shit happened today

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:56 AM

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but

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I've seen enough I am satisfied

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yet I am curious how something like this can happen

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 12:57 AM

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this isnt the place to ask that

normal bay Dec 23, 2023, 12:57 AM

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where else is the place to ask that

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 1:08 AM

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#1175117403219308654

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are you joking

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 6:45 AM

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am I the only one who finds rest and chesto a really funny thing to have on a physical setup mon

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especially if you send it in on a mon who has will-o

quiet salmon Dec 23, 2023, 6:51 AM

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probably

sterile glacier Dec 23, 2023, 7:45 AM

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Chesto-Resto can work well, but you gotta be careful because it only works once

honest umbra Dec 23, 2023, 8:42 AM

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yeah

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but the burst heal and status removal can seriously punish someone who isnt ready

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especially if the will-o or para you and go "problem solved" just to end up with a completely healthy mon with full setup

robust rapids Dec 23, 2023, 12:39 PM

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https://pokepast.es/fa108f5adff671ab
made a wack psychic terrain team at 4am, roast me

serene lichen Dec 23, 2023, 12:58 PM

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https://pokepast.es/a4cc42072b2ec1d7 heres my sun team that I made today

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Charizard emotional support

serene lichen Dec 23, 2023, 1:02 PM

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robust rapids https://pokepast.es/fa108f5adff671ab made a wack psychic terrain team at 4am, ro...

lol bluder policy for those focusmisses

robust rapids Dec 23, 2023, 1:04 PM

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serene lichen lol bluder policy for those focusmisses

reaches 534 speed afterwards, and can spam boombursts with no care

serene lichen Dec 23, 2023, 1:06 PM

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robust rapids reaches 534 speed afterwards, and can spam boombursts with no care

scary

robust rapids Dec 23, 2023, 1:08 PM

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doesnt have any other way to boost speed, and I'd rather not be scarfed, so its a fun alternative

serene lichen Dec 23, 2023, 1:09 PM

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serene lichen scary

unless you have a dragonite fusion

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would catch me off guard tho

robust rapids Dec 23, 2023, 1:09 PM

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dragonite? brother you're in psychic terrain (hopefully)

serene lichen Dec 23, 2023, 1:09 PM

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oh right

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I always forget that

robust rapids Dec 23, 2023, 1:10 PM

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me too, I almost ran thunderclap on raging bolt

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also according to bulbapedia, mighty cleave gets boosted by sharpness

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which is kinda dumb

serene lichen Dec 23, 2023, 1:14 PM

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142.5 bp no drawback hits through protect

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100 accuracy

muted oar Dec 23, 2023, 10:10 PM

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robust rapids also according to bulbapedia, mighty cleave gets boosted by sharpness

It's like the only good rock move ever, gotta be generous to it

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 4:38 AM

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decided I wanted to nuke things with more than one move

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tf is my 4th slot

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considering the only things that take the moves are water fairy, rock fairy and dragon fairy

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:44 AM

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and water steel

gentle pine Dec 24, 2023, 4:55 AM

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honest umbra considering the only things that take the moves are water fairy, rock fairy and ...

There’s always Focus Miss

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You also have access to Scorching Sands and Tbolt

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 4:56 AM

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quiet salmon and water steel

i meant resist the dual stabs

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:56 AM

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if it takes 30% its effectively a resist

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 4:56 AM

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gentle pine You also have access to Scorching Sands and Tbolt

tf is scorching sands

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:56 AM

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scorching sands doesnt exist

gentle pine Dec 24, 2023, 4:56 AM

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70 power ground special move that can burn

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 4:57 AM

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quiet salmon if it takes 30% its effectively a resist

are you talking about that slowking

sick wharf Dec 24, 2023, 4:57 AM

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Boom Burst is still a great move even without STAB and would hit Water Fairy and Dragon Fairy neutrally

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:57 AM

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its a bad move without stab

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:57 AM

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honest umbra are you talking about that slowking

jirachipex slowking+steel

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either works

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 4:57 AM

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eh when your options for hitting it are that or hidden power you kinda have to scrape the bottom of the barrel

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:58 AM

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focus energy is bad in general when you have to hold an item for it to do 1.5x damage

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when you couldve clicked plot instead

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 4:58 AM

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I mean there's a pretty obvious point given overheat+draco meteor

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:59 AM

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that has 195 power

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+2 fire blast has 220 power

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 4:59 AM

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what dragon move would I repace draco with

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 4:59 AM

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draco

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:00 AM

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why would I have a setup mon that unsets itself up

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 5:00 AM

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because the damage

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:00 AM

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sure

gentle pine Dec 24, 2023, 5:01 AM

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quiet salmon focus energy is bad in general when you have to hold an item for it to do 1.5x d...

Tbf, crits are better against unaware/def setters

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 5:01 AM

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there are no def setters

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:01 AM

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that arent niche anyways

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It is a nice thing agaisnt unaware though

gentle pine Dec 24, 2023, 5:01 AM

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From what I understand, unaware is fairly common

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Unfortunately

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The most common ones are Clefable fusions?

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:02 AM

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also pyuku

gentle pine Dec 24, 2023, 5:02 AM

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So fire/dragon doesn’t do well against them

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That too

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:02 AM

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the only defense setter that exists is clefable/registeel

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and even then it's niche

gentle pine Dec 24, 2023, 5:03 AM

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So perhaps a crit build with different pokemon would work better.

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Maybe like w Kingdra fusion for Sniper

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:03 AM

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the crit build wasnt inherently the point

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the whole point was to negate the downside

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and still get good setup

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also to be a special attacker because I have too many physicals

robust rapids Dec 24, 2023, 5:24 AM

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latios/kingdra is just better kingdra, though using sniper over swift swim means you probably need web for it to really sweep

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:24 AM

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one singular levitate/flying type:

robust rapids Dec 24, 2023, 5:25 AM

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you would also have to get rid of any e-speed fusions

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:26 AM

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i find sticky web to be an unreliable gimmick 80% of the time because of how fragile the setters are and it being wholely ignorable

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also scizor or dragonite

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like you are 100% losing that sticky web if they have a slightly bulky remover

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also because there's like 2 mons who learn the move so if they're paying attention at team preview your lead is a free counter lead

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it's just

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really bad

robust rapids Dec 24, 2023, 5:28 AM

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jynx/galvantula for 97% accurate lovely kiss

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:29 AM

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I was more so referring to just sending out your rapid spinner / defogger

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and just kinda ignoring it

robust rapids Dec 24, 2023, 5:30 AM

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if you know they gonna defog/spin it, you can use that to switch in and set up a focus energy or something

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also jynx/galvantula has blizzard/thunder stabs that can threaten some of the hazard removers

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:31 AM

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yeah

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most defoggers are flying

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it's still easy for them to just go

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"eh I'll just kill it and then defog"

robust rapids Dec 24, 2023, 5:33 AM

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thats where mind games come in, just killing it is not always that simple

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especially with lovely kiss

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 5:40 AM

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yeah

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I mean i can see the jynx galv being annoying for hyper offense

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but most bulky and stally teams just do not care

gusty burrow Dec 24, 2023, 6:41 AM

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Most of the time you can ko the lead webs mon and then Defog, there isn't a good fusion that gives webs and other hazards so you don't need to remove it right away

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 7:01 AM

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honest umbra "eh I'll just kill it and then defog"

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I meant to switch out post homicide

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 7:02 AM

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the idea of webs ho is to prevent them from defogging by applying constant offensive pressure

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:04 PM

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me like big number

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shitty fusion but it is kinda funny

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:09 PM

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I like dazzling to shut down all the E-Speeders lol

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:09 PM

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I think dazzling is pointless because just use a steel type lol

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:10 PM

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Sure, but it also makes you Prankster immune

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:10 PM

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POV: dark type

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:10 PM

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So all the priority people like to use get shut down by Fish

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Dark/Steel type

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:10 PM

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fuck no

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just use two mons

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:11 PM

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LOL

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:11 PM

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dark steel is mediocre

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quad weak fighting, doesnt resist fairy (dragonite sylveon anyone?)

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hell no

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:13 PM

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I think it has some potential for a set up mon that can’t be gimped by Prankster or Priority.

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:14 PM

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yeah but how do you beat sylveon/noivern

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:14 PM

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Praying

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:15 PM

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honest umbra yeah but how do you beat sylveon/noivern

Resist boomburst

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4x

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:15 PM

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Get 2 dragon Dances or pray they chose specs

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:15 PM

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Toxic spikes too

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Or srocks

sick wharf Dec 24, 2023, 8:15 PM

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Alternatively, Soundproof to be completely immune to boomburst

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:17 PM

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sick wharf Alternatively, Soundproof to be completely immune to boomburst

Bastiodon or voltorb

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:17 PM

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nocturne eagle Resist boomburst

why tf did you show up to say that when we were talking about dark/steel type

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please scroll up

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:18 PM

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honest umbra why tf did you show up to say that when we were talking about dark/steel type

If you are faster with steel/dark you can use throat chop

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:18 PM

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literally every scarfer:

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I mean I just named a big damage counter because i like my steels to resist fairy

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:19 PM

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Idiots run specs

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:19 PM

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but my actual concern was primarily sylveon/dragonite because apparently their goal is to stop all priority

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:20 PM

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The actual answer is a super strong bullet punch

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:20 PM

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when in reality you could always just do a steel magic bouncer and it'd be gg

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espeed when:

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:21 PM

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Espeed just use ghost/steel

dreamy lion Dec 24, 2023, 8:21 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/worried-kermit-kermit-the-frog-muppets-stressed-gif-7121337

Tenor

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Me, saying anything in Teambuilding knowing b will skin me alive

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:21 PM

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https://tenor.com/view/worried-kermit-kermit-the-frog-muppets-stressed-gif-7121337

Tenor

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Me, saying anything in Teambuilding knowing anaconja will skin me alive

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pretty sure this beats all priority

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for the most part

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magic bounce blocks prankster (mostly) and steel block espeed and bullet punch

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doesnt block shadow sneak and sucker which might be a problem

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 8:25 PM

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Psychic Terrain:

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:27 PM

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real

rich basalt Dec 24, 2023, 8:27 PM

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honest umbra pretty sure this beats all priority

Or just use bruxish once it gets released heehee

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:27 PM

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bruxish mades me sad as a mon

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it has mediocre stats all around and a bad type order

rich basalt Dec 24, 2023, 8:32 PM

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105 attack and 92 speed are okayish, and could work with strong jaw, but using it has a body gives you psychic typing Despair

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 8:32 PM

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92 isnt base 100

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therefore is bad

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but yeah type order

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even if its best move is psychic fangs

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 8:56 PM

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new mon time to cook

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weavile works with everything tbh

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(for legal reasons it doesn't)

lofty scroll Dec 24, 2023, 8:59 PM

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honest umbra pretty sure this beats all priority

I actually use this on my IF Dex Sandstorm team. Probably could use some work but it's done fairly well for me.

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:01 PM

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I think I've seen that Lycanpardos

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I've used it too actually but I remember playing against a sand team it had that too

lofty scroll Dec 24, 2023, 9:03 PM

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We've probably fought before. I've been using this team for several weeks and also in at least one tournament

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Also think I've submitted it to randbats as well

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:05 PM

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I appreciate the rarer weathers

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sand and hail specifically

lofty scroll Dec 24, 2023, 9:06 PM

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Yeah I have a soft spot for sand teams. When I first got introduced to OU in college back in gen 5 I had used one. I know they aren't as good as they use to be but I have fun with them.

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:09 PM

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honest umbra dark steel is mediocre

dark steel is a great offensive typing man

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:10 PM

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yeah but defensively it's not great

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:10 PM

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its still steel type tho

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:10 PM

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u were talking about bruxish and whatever that implies offensive

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:10 PM

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and prankster inmune

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2 immunities to types as well, tho not great types but immunities are always nice to have

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~~make grass immune to grass pls~~

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:12 PM

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nocturne eagle Idiots run specs

specs is the best set

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:13 PM

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quiet salmon u were talking about bruxish and whatever that implies offensive

we were talking about anti priority

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dark steel came up because prankster and steel blocking variants of espeed

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:15 PM

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what mon

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noivern

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:15 PM

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dragonite

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:16 PM

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aha

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I've tried psychic terrain before, tho it's kinda mid without a psychic surge mon

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:17 PM

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if ur gonna use a defensive mon for “antipriority” thats just walling the mon

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:17 PM

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I have too

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:17 PM

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quiet salmon if ur gonna use a defensive mon for “antipriority” thats just walling the mon

I mean part of the conversation was prankster

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and prankster uses status a lot

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:17 PM

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i havent seen one good prankster mon

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:17 PM

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to be fair the base stats suck

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:18 PM

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whismicott is frail and fast which it doesn't want

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:18 PM

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but they can be annoying with stuff like willo and thunder wave

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:18 PM

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klefki has dual screens (I think?) and spikes

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i only use umbreon whimsicott because the sprite is really cute xp

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But it doesn't have reflect

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:20 PM

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Still can be a little bastard with encore

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and leech seed

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and stun spore

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:21 PM

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pretty fake

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:21 PM

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why does it have spore

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:21 PM

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bc whimsicott learns spore here

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:21 PM

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wtf

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:21 PM

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its banned

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:21 PM

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I know

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but whimsicott learning it in base game is wild

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:22 PM

#

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wish passing maybe

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:22 PM

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i dont see it

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:23 PM

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priority switch out moment

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:23 PM

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Yeah prankster isn't that valuable in this case

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Only encore

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Umbreon on it's own is probably great

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Shame umbpex is water dark

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:25 PM

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just flip it lmao

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worse stats

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goated type

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:25 PM

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hp is so much lower

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:25 PM

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indeed

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 9:25 PM

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honest umbra but whimsicott learning it in base game is wild

thats because it cant

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:26 PM

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then why is spore in the moveset

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im so lost

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 9:26 PM

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they made a little oopsie

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 9:26 PM

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lol

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:26 PM

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Toxreon (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Fusion: Umbreon
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature

Parting Shot
Wish
Knock Off
Toxic

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seems decent

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not amazing tho

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probably useful on balance ig

nocturne eagle Dec 24, 2023, 9:28 PM

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seems fine

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:28 PM

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I've used umbreon/doublade
It's great only downside is meh abilities

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tbf stats arent that high either bht

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It has an useable attack stat which makes stealing attack boosts very nice

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:30 PM

#

and lack of 16pp reliable recovery

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:30 PM

#

Umblade (Umbreon) @ Eviolite
Ability: Synchronize
Fusion: Doublade
Alt: a
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature

Parting Shot
Spectral Thief
Wish
Throat Chop

#

I use it mainly for anti setup

#

toxic works too

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:31 PM

#

wish especially without protect or moonlight is not reliable at all

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:31 PM

#

Protect is an option

#

I just don't like not being able to hit normal types

#

Specifically bear

#

as it can setup and click anything that isn't espeed to break jt

quiet salmon Dec 24, 2023, 9:32 PM

#

thats why i hate having to rely on wish bc it requires protect

snow pike Dec 24, 2023, 9:32 PM

#

yeah it's a setup turn sometimes

#

That's why spectral thief is nice unless you are going against a normal type

gusty burrow Dec 24, 2023, 10:47 PM

#

Being completely walled by Snorcor doesn't bode well

honest umbra Dec 24, 2023, 11:15 PM

#

I mean parting shot at least annoys the snorcor so you can get out

naive dome Dec 25, 2023, 12:33 AM

#

honest umbra why does it have spore

It is pretty cazy, though it doesn't really change that much with sleep clause and grass/Dark Immunity

hazy crescent Dec 25, 2023, 3:18 AM

#

it gets better scald I guess 🤷‍♀️

hazy crescent Dec 25, 2023, 3:56 AM

#

hazy crescent it gets better scald I guess 🤷‍♀️

on second thought this thing sucks after the pp nerf and will lose the stall war

quiet salmon Dec 25, 2023, 4:07 AM

#

its not better scald

#

it has 3x less pp

nova willow Dec 25, 2023, 4:46 AM

#

its also not 100% accurate

quiet salmon Dec 25, 2023, 4:54 AM

#

5% is w/e

sly thicket Dec 25, 2023, 5:15 AM

#

“If it isn’t 100% accurate, it’s 50% accurate”
-sun tzu, probably

serene lichen Dec 25, 2023, 11:50 AM

#

sly thicket “If it isn’t 100% accurate, it’s 50% accurate” -sun tzu, probably

I feel it I lost like 3 games in recent memory to missed 90% accurate moves I swear I missed like 3 in a match dude I was fuming

sly thicket Dec 25, 2023, 11:56 AM

#

It b like that sometimes

serene lichen Dec 25, 2023, 12:02 PM

#

maybe they do hit 90% of the time but you only remember the misses so it feels like they miss all the time

sly thicket Dec 25, 2023, 12:04 PM

#

Negative retention or something like that

#

Idr what it’s called but ik what you’re on about lol

compact pebble Dec 25, 2023, 12:55 PM

#

The Moveset of this game pokemons are actually

#

??

sly thicket Dec 25, 2023, 6:18 PM

#

compact pebble The Moveset of this game pokemons are actually

Gen 7 if you’re playing IF dex Gen 9 if you’re doing Nat dex

dreamy lion Dec 25, 2023, 6:26 PM

#

Gen 7+, but no event moves. Some fusions have unique fusion moves i.e. Bisharp+Any Water Type can learn Water Shuriken. Unique TMs that do things like let Togekiss learn Moonblast

graceful imp Dec 25, 2023, 6:41 PM

#

jumpluff and sunflora fusions getting seed flare, magmortar fusions getting magma storm, electivire w/ plasma fists, etc

sterile glacier Dec 25, 2023, 6:56 PM

#

A lot of fire types get magma storm actually

#

Entei fusions get V-Create, which is fun

red spear Dec 25, 2023, 8:11 PM

#

The magma storm comes from them having Eruption

honest umbra Dec 26, 2023, 12:09 AM

#

any of yall know how to make articuno work offensively with freeze dry

graceful imp Dec 26, 2023, 12:19 AM

#

sterile glacier Entei fusions get V-Create, which is fun

me using v-create entei/shuckle (it will get OHKO'd by a water coverage move after doing 12% to the enemy)

sterile glacier Dec 26, 2023, 12:20 AM

#

Personally I’ve been running Entei/Leafeon and Entei/Groudon for sun shenanigans

#

Because what a 180 base power STAB move really needs is a sun boost

honest umbra Dec 26, 2023, 12:21 AM

#

ninetails/typhlosion is rather funny with eruption

sterile glacier Dec 26, 2023, 1:07 AM

#

honest umbra any of yall know how to make articuno work offensively with freeze dry

Unfortunately, Articuno’s stats kinda suck, so you don’t.

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 1:22 AM

#

honest umbra any of yall know how to make articuno work offensively with freeze dry

just use zapmoltcuno

fallow osprey Dec 26, 2023, 3:50 AM

#

Articuno works pretty well with cofagrigus

#

I've used an articuno/cof and it's had some alright results on ladder (if you're doing ou)

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 4:04 AM

#

what does that do

gentle pine Dec 26, 2023, 5:03 AM

#

Bruxish is actually insane for showdown lmao

#

For the ability

#

Stats are very obviously meh

#

That being said, you could prolly do something like Metagross/Bruxish with Strong Jaw to get off some crazy strong Psychic Fangs

#

But Strong Jaw is easily the worst of its 3 abilities competitively.

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 5:17 AM

#

acting like wonder skin does something

#

bruxish is mid for showdown

gentle pine Dec 26, 2023, 5:21 AM

#

Dazzling mainly with how many people spam priority

#

Obviously it prevents priority moves, but I’ve never seen if it blocks Prankster stuff

#

If it does, that’s extremely good.

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 5:23 AM

#

it does

#

but ive never seen a good prank user

#

everyones soyfacing about how it blocks priority but bruxish stats are so bad youre better off just packing resists

gentle pine Dec 26, 2023, 5:54 AM

#

I mean, it makes it easy to switch in and set up in a lot of cases.

#

Or at least has the potential to.

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 5:59 AM

#

its potential is very on paper

#

physical attackers have a hard enough time without boosting abilities and dazzling offering nothing is just another nail in the coffin

gusty burrow Dec 26, 2023, 6:31 AM

#

Dazzling is a great ability, but Bruxish sucks

gentle pine Dec 26, 2023, 6:33 AM

#

I’m mainly thinking that you could fuse it with something that has Ddance, switch it in to force something else to switch out, Ddance once, probably have a sash on it to get an additional Ddance off, then do good damage.

#

Only if you don’t take hazard chip obviously

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 6:54 AM

#

sounds fake

void willow Dec 26, 2023, 7:09 AM

#

gentle pine I’m mainly thinking that you could fuse it with something that has Ddance, switc...

Being able to block priority is nice but priority is not the only thing that can kill you when you're at low HP.
Rocky Helmet, Iron Barbs, Rough Skin, Spiky Shield, Baneful Bunker, and Sandstorm are all just some examples of moves, abilities, items, and weather conditions capable of killing you through Dazzling. Heck, even another Focus Sash mon can stop your sweep on the spot.
Furthermore, trying to avoid hazards might not be as easy as it seems if the opponent has literally any attacker capable of threatening your Rapid Spinner/Defogger. Basing your entire strategy around keeping sash up is quite unreliable.

honest umbra Dec 26, 2023, 7:46 AM

#

sounds overcomplicated

honest umbra Dec 26, 2023, 8:07 AM

#

would a levitate mon with a rock resist make a good defogger?

#

like you could ignore spikes and regen stealth off with leftovers

sterile glacier Dec 26, 2023, 8:21 AM

#

honest umbra would a levitate mon with a rock resist make a good defogger?

Generally speaking very yes. That was Claydoll’s entire niche before its mid stats saw it powercreeped into oblivion. Being a spinner or defogger that can basically ignore hazards is very strong

#

That said, you can get an arguably better version of this with regenerator or magic guard to just ignore the hazard chip

#

It won’t let you ignore scummy web or come in for free on earthquakes, but it will protect you from a wide array of other types of dangers

#

And it’s not like scummy web is that dangerous anyways when the only viable setter is Galvantula, which isn’t that good no matter what it gets fused with

gusty burrow Dec 26, 2023, 8:45 AM

#

The webs mon doesnt matter, its just there to click webs and be mildly annoying

sterile glacier Dec 26, 2023, 12:39 PM

#

Run Ariados then

gusty burrow Dec 26, 2023, 12:51 PM

#

Ariados is worse

#

It's very slow, speed is the one stat that matters

sterile glacier Dec 26, 2023, 1:53 PM

#

But the webs mon doesn’t matter

#

That’s what you said

snow pike Dec 26, 2023, 4:13 PM

#

its high speed and compound eyes being a nice ability makes galvantula not limited to web setting

#

whilst ariados
sadly just kinda
sucks

#

Mario_shrug

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 6:12 PM

#

dusk was being too oversimplifying, things that basically only matter for a webs setter is

ability to get through bounce (mold, skill swap)
ability to dissuade defog (taunt, self-ko moves, strong attacks, stuff like twave)
ability to maintain momentum (taunt to prevent setup, pivot move, selfko as a pivot move)
speed

#

this is in the wrong order btw the most important is the bottom one

gentle pine Dec 26, 2023, 8:41 PM

#

Considering a Hydrapple Serene Grace set with either Togekiss or Jirachi

#

For 60% Fickle Beam

#

Togekiss one is dragon/fairy and Jirachi is dragon/steel

#

So both good typings

#

Togekiss higher spa

#

Jirachi more bulk

#

Leaning toward Togekiss

#

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 8:53 PM

#

serene grace does not interact with fickle beam

gentle pine Dec 26, 2023, 8:54 PM

#

Unfortunate

#

If it did, would either of those have been decent?

#

I was also considering Steel Beam on the Jirachi one just cuz damage.

lofty scroll Dec 26, 2023, 9:18 PM

#

Yeah I had thought of that and tested earlier, can confirm it does not.

quiet salmon Dec 26, 2023, 9:21 PM

#

neither of these have coverage

#

dazzling gleam hits nothing relevant

#

besides other fairy dragons of which there are scarce

muted oar Dec 26, 2023, 10:58 PM

#

Wait so can you wish pass to the pokemon that came in after a pivot move? Or does the wish occur before you move

red spear Dec 26, 2023, 11:21 PM

#

it happens at the end of the turn, so you can wish and then pivot move into the mon you want the wish to land

#

that's how wish passing works

outer spindle Dec 26, 2023, 11:34 PM

#

This is less of a showdown question and more of a mechanics question (but I think you guys would know so I’m asking it here): How exactly does Necrozma’s Prism Armour work? Does it make it so any super effective moves against it are instead worse than moves with regular effectiveness (0.75x vs 1x)? Does a quad weakness also become 0.75x damage against Necrozma?

rapid glade Dec 26, 2023, 11:41 PM

#

It gets the 75% multiplier after super effective

So 2x becomes 1.5x, and 4x becomes 3x

outer spindle Dec 26, 2023, 11:45 PM

#

Ah ok, I thought that might be the case, but the wording made me unsure. Damn, I was hoping Psychic/Grass might be a great fusion typing for a Necrozma. Oh well

honest umbra Dec 27, 2023, 1:44 AM

#

fun fact: rhyperior has the same ability as necrozma, or functionally the same any ways, excluding stuff like a mold breaker immunity

glass vector Dec 27, 2023, 2:26 AM

#

question for nat dex AG

#

does using shedinja's wonder guard ability make ANY fusion have 1 hp?

#

cuz in the stats in teambuilder it says it has a LOT more than one health, but then in my first match it said (1/1) HP

patent hatch Dec 27, 2023, 2:35 AM

#

glass vector does using shedinja's wonder guard ability make ANY fusion have 1 hp?

Yes Wonder Guard hardcodes your HP to one

glass vector Dec 27, 2023, 2:36 AM

#

fair

honest umbra Dec 27, 2023, 2:52 AM

#

this also means there's no sturdinja cheese

muted oar Dec 27, 2023, 4:04 AM

#

What are some good moves to have on a dual screener that supplements their dual screens?

gusty burrow Dec 27, 2023, 4:06 AM

#

Slow U-turn or Explosion/Self Destruct

muted oar Dec 27, 2023, 4:07 AM

#

gusty burrow Slow U-turn or Explosion/Self Destruct

Or Memento?

#

Well I got my Blissey/Whimsicott to like the 7th gym and realized the fusion only learns light screen but not reflect

#

So now it's like, Memento/Light Screen/Leech seed and U-turn or something?

quiet salmon Dec 27, 2023, 4:42 AM

#

muted oar What are some good moves to have on a dual screener that supplements their dual ...

taunt/encore

sterile glacier Dec 27, 2023, 6:52 AM

#

Anything that's really annoying or can buy you turns

quiet salmon Dec 27, 2023, 7:26 AM

#

you dont want to buy turns

#

that just burns screens turns for yourself

snow pike Dec 27, 2023, 11:53 AM

#

Is recover or strength sap better

#

Testing seed flare stuff

#

The second one might be able to beat some unaware Pokémon

snow pike Dec 27, 2023, 12:43 PM

#

turns out: it's not that good

pure heart Dec 27, 2023, 12:53 PM

#

I’m happy to say I found some moderate success with defensive snorgrigus

#

Snorlax/cofagrigus

#

he is VERY tanky

#

#

It gets shut down by taunt pretty bad but otherwise I think it could work fairly well

#

Very conveniently, it has spirit shackle, which is an 80 base power STAB trapping move

snow pike Dec 27, 2023, 1:02 PM

#

no reliable recovery might be annoying

pure heart Dec 27, 2023, 1:02 PM

#

Yeah, it’s definitely a weakness there, but it’s so tanky that I found rest can actually work reasonably well

#

plus rest gets rid of toxic

#

Which would otherwise kill it

#

It’s by no means unbeatable, but it seems pretty usable overall

#

Only being weak to dark is also very advantageous

#

3 immunities too

#

Also mummy can be pretty good when your opponent is locked in a 1v1 with you

#

“Whoops there goes your huge power”

#

At which point snorgrigus can kinda just do whatever it wants. If you didn’t kill him with huge power you DEFINITELY aren’t killing him now

snow pike Dec 27, 2023, 1:49 PM

#

o in ag?

#

I like to use miltank doublade, which does the same thing (but holding eviolite and with the stat stealing move and milk drink)

gentle pine Dec 27, 2023, 2:44 PM

#

snow pike Testing seed flare stuff

I didn't realize Seed Flare's effect rate was 40%/80% until I just needed to look it up lol

#

Seems pretty brutal to go against

#

I personally lean toward the Togekiss one cuz I love para/slash hax

#

Jirachi one is obviously far more durable though

snow pike Dec 27, 2023, 2:50 PM

#

i must note that i myself hate playing against togekiss so I am not allowed to use this set heehee

naive dome Dec 27, 2023, 4:15 PM

#

Big fan of paraflinch, cannot wait to kick people with Aria Meloetta heehee

glass vector Dec 27, 2023, 7:41 PM

#

is there a list of the "expert fusion" moves and how to get them?

#

like how snorlax/cofagrigus just above gets spirit shackle

vernal vale Dec 27, 2023, 7:50 PM

#

https://infinitefusion.fandom.com/wiki/Move_Expert_Move_Lists

Pokémon Infinite Fusion Wiki

Move Expert Move Lists

Move Experts, like Move Tutors, can teach moves to your Pokemon, except each Move Expert has a list of move that they can teach, rather than just one. A Pokemon must satisfy all the conditions in...

glass vector Dec 27, 2023, 7:50 PM

#

nice! thx

vernal vale Dec 27, 2023, 7:51 PM

#

np

lapis oriole Dec 27, 2023, 10:18 PM

#

Shell Smash Chandelure Togekiss is awesome

#

Sadly it's Ubers

wanton fern Dec 27, 2023, 11:42 PM

#

Shell Smash... WHAT?

#

I have created something cancerous

#

Togetios (Togekiss) @ White Herb
Ability: Serene Grace
Fusion: Latios
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

Shell Smash
Draining Kiss
Stored Power
Luster Purge

quiet salmon Dec 27, 2023, 11:50 PM

#

gets owned in ag

wanton fern Dec 27, 2023, 11:50 PM

#

but funny

#

also, Gyarados at home

#

Ferajask (Feraligatr) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Shiny: Yes
Fusion: Ninjask
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

Liquidation
Dragon Dance
Ice Punch
Crunch

quiet salmon Dec 27, 2023, 11:50 PM

#

not any more than other smashers

wanton fern Dec 27, 2023, 11:53 PM

#

Frosking (Froslass) (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sheer Force
Fusion: Nidoking
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

Ice Beam
Earth Power
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt

#

sheer force

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 12:03 AM

#

why is it sheer force with choice specs

upper granite Dec 28, 2023, 12:18 AM

#

wanton fern Frosking (Froslass) (F) @ Choice Specs Ability: Sheer Force Fusion: Nidoking...

Life orb

dreamy lion Dec 28, 2023, 12:22 AM

#

Sheer Force mons either get a Scarf or the ORB

wanton fern Dec 28, 2023, 12:24 AM

#

upper granite Life orb

fair

#

I could use that

#

editted the set

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 1:32 AM

#

wanton fern Frosking (Froslass) (F) @ Choice Specs Ability: Sheer Force Fusion: Nidoking...

What is this for?

#

Just use Frosmoking or if your just doing DEX Jynx Nidoking probably better because QD

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 2:32 AM

#

dreamy lion Sheer Force mons either get a Scarf or the ORB

orb 99% of the time

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:12 AM

#

well, i was told to throw all my teams on here, ill be slowly posting the in pokepastes

#

i have 21 seperate teams

wanton fern Dec 28, 2023, 3:14 AM

#

pseudo heron What is this for?

because I wanted to use Froslass, it is one of my favorites

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:14 AM

#

just a heads up, all my teams are specificly for IF OU

#

https://pokepast.es/3b584d091d1b0ff5

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:17 AM

#

heres a good pointer to how to make sand https://www.smogon.com/articles/sandstorm-rages

#

but a look at this tells me that ur using pretty inefficient fusions and not great coverage

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:19 AM

#

well theres only 1 sand rush mon

#

and i didnt see anything that would make sand force dug worth my time

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:19 AM

#

most sand teams only have one anyway

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:20 AM

#

well yeah

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:20 AM

#

starting with the setter its always good to make it have recovery and pivoting in order to keep itself healthy to repeatedly set weather and then provide a safe switchin to the abuser

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:20 AM

#

obviously ttar has to stay at least

#

swap dclaw for roost

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:21 AM

#

crobat doesnt look very good though cause not enough bulk

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:22 AM

#

its bulkier than youd think. 95 90 93 defenses

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:22 AM

#

thats middling

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:23 AM

#

well ttar needs to be the head or else its gonna take damage. either that or deal with grounds nasty weaknesses or steel dark basicly being rock dark but slightly better

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:24 AM

#

im thinking celebi

#

Ability: Sand Stream  
Fusion: Celebi  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
IVs: 0 Spe  
- Rock Slide  
- Stealth Rock  
- Recover  
- U-turn```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:24 AM

#

ehh?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:25 AM

#

bulkier with slower uturn and grass to mitigate ground weakness

#

while not being weak to rock

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:25 AM

#

im not sure

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:26 AM

#

its bulky and it provides a pivot to the sand abuser

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:27 AM

#

yeah but im unbelivable ypicky and honestly, it dosnt have a sprite. i know thats being picky but i like having style on my team

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:28 AM

#

id personally take the lack of sprite over smashing my hand 5 times on my computer but preferences are preferences

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:29 AM

#

yes i know that being like this is just gonna keep pissing me off

#

screw it, lets go with it and move on to sandslash

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:30 AM

#

tyrantrum sandslash is too weak and slow to be a good abuser

#

id rather use sandslash haxorus

#

you also want to take advantage of thousand arrows

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:31 AM

#

which order?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:31 AM

#

sandslash head haxorus body

#

sandslash haxorus

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:31 AM

#

perfect, thats the one with the sprite as a bonus

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:32 AM

#

Ability: Sand Rush  
Fusion: Haxorus  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Thousand Arrows  
- Outrage / Superpower 
- Knock Off / Superpower / Poison Jab
- Swords Dance```

#

something like this

#

coverage is a little awkward

#

superpower hits grass/steels

#

poison jab hits fairies

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:33 AM

#

i mean techicly PJ also hits grass

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:34 AM

#

true but in my experience there arent many grass walls besides grass steel

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:34 AM

#

fair enough

#

lets talk special attacker

#

my first thought was magic gaurd reuin

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:35 AM

#

quite slow

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:35 AM

#

yeah, alas no zam in ou

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:35 AM

#

i prefer clefable

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:35 AM

#

that might work

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:36 AM

#

Ability: Magic Guard  
Fusion: Mew  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Modest Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Light of Ruin  
- Earth Power  
- Fire Blast  
- Nasty Plot```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:36 AM

#

yeah, simple and effective

#

now is there a way to effectivly use klingklang, cause im kinda addicted to shift gear

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:37 AM

#

in my opinion its overrated

#

best one would be garchomp though

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:38 AM

#

i can understand that

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:38 AM

#

or maybe entei

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:38 AM

#

sadly this entei dosnt get espeed

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:38 AM

#

it uses shift gear it doesnt need espeed

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:38 AM

#

i mean yeah

#

tho steel fire can be a risk reward type

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:39 AM

#

its a useful soft check to sylvern

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:39 AM

#

good point

#

i do have a klintei set

#

Klinktei (Klinklang) @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Fusion: Entei
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

Sunsteel Strike
Sacred Fire
Stone Edge
Shift Gear

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:40 AM

#

Ability: Clear Body  
Fusion: Entei  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Sunsteel Strike  
- V-create  
- Wild Charge  
- Shift Gear```
id more likely use this

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:41 AM

#

not sure how i feel about v, its a tad risky and kinda forces a switch

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:41 AM

#

80% more power

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:41 AM

#

but 100% more predicable

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:41 AM

#

youre still +1 speed afterward

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:41 AM

#

i guess

#

if only we had cell slam

#

i imagine if kk was in SV, itd have it

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:43 AM

#

probably

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:44 AM

#

now we should think about any major counters this team has at the moment, and how to counter the counters

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:44 AM

#

you need a defensive core

#

physical wall and special wall

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:44 AM

#

probally a bulky steel like ferro?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:45 AM

#

i was thinking a water type

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:45 AM

#

thats not a bad idea

#

when its comes to bulky water i think pex, milo, and suicune

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:46 AM

#

Ability: Unaware  
Fusion: Steelix  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def  
Relaxed Nature  
- Scald  
- Thousand Waves  
- Toxic  
- Recover```
probably slots in well

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:46 AM

#

tho vap could provide solid bulk and water absorb, but im sure the resistance would be fine

#

cant really go wrong with water/ground

#

ok, we got 3 offensive mons and 2 defensive mons

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:47 AM

#

looking for hazard control that isnt weak to boltbeam or whatever special wallbreakers exist

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:48 AM

#

maybe steel with either poison or fairy

#

probally fairy cause 4x ground weakness

#

unless we use weezing

#

if we go the steel poison weezing, im thinking jirachi

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:52 AM

#

doesnt sound like a great special wall

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:52 AM

#

u right

#

so the fairy route is probaly the way to go

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

Ability: Thick Fat  
Fusion: Mew  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD  
Careful Nature   
- Body Slam / Scald / Will-o-Wisp / Transform  
- Defog  
- Roost  
- U-turn```
this is dumb but its indeed a defogger spd wall and pivot

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

we cant use that cause of clefable/mew

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:53 AM

#

oops

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:54 AM

#

mime could have some use with its good spdef, good recovery, and a solid abilty in filter

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:54 AM

#

terrible hp

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:55 AM

#

yeah, i was thinking that could be an issue

#

slyveon could work, but its more meant for offense

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:55 AM

#

Ability: Serene Grace  
Fusion: Porygon2  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD  
Calm Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Moonblast  
- Flamethrower  
- Defog  
- Roost```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:56 AM

#

yeah, this seems good

#

https://pokepast.es/1e1a82a85bbc01b4
next up is sun... definetly some problems (i immediatly regret the flareon/aggron)

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:58 AM

#

every competent sun needs entei leafeon

#

for vcreate in sun

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 3:59 AM

#

slightly more power with entei body or slightly more bulk with leaf body?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 3:59 AM

#

leafeon body

#

its 2 atk at the cost of a huge amount of bulk

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:00 AM

#

yeah thats what i thought

#

gotta figure out what else to give it other than v and leaf blade

#

im thinking knock and morning sun

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:01 AM

#

thats not bad

#

lean toward sd over knock but knock has use in removing eviolite

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:02 AM

#

and if i got the speed and they dont use protect, getting rid of orbs from guts and ph mons

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:02 AM

#

more niche situation but sure

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:03 AM

#

with the ammount of gliscors ive seen... maybe a bit more than niche

#

tho they probaly run protect

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:03 AM

#

people just arent vigilant about poisoning them on safe turns

#

protect is outclassed by roost

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:05 AM

#

well i feel like three attacks is nessacary, the last attack should cover either its matchup against dragons, other fires, or the 8 types it hits neutrally

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:06 AM

#

a lot of the time sun vcreate 2hkos even resists

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:07 AM

#

... fair

#

sd to counter the attack loss actualy might be a good idea then

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:07 AM

#

vcreate doesnt drop atk

#

it drops def spd spe

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:08 AM

#

and for item? maybe lefties?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:08 AM

#

that works

#

you can use charcoal to buff fire moves even more

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:08 AM

#

now lets talk setting the weather, obviously nine is the only option

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:08 AM

#

Ability: Drought  
Fusion: Ninetales  
Alt: a  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
IVs: 0 Spe  
- Flash Cannon  
- Stealth Rock  
- Recover  
- U-turn```
is what i use

#

steel/fire checks boomburst users

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:09 AM

#

yeah, good point

#

i figure it might be a good idea to have a flash mon to make sure opposing fires cant abuse the sun

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:10 AM

#

usually a dragon type is enough for me

#

there arent good ff options besides chandelure

#

and chandelure without a boosting ability is kinda sad

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:11 AM

#

yeah, my gengar houndoom is ay too frail

#

im thinking somthing with latios or hydra for some levitate immunities

#

tho nite is also probally a good option

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:13 AM

#

Ability: Levitate  
Fusion: Mew  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD  
Calm Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Draco Meteor  
- Flamethrower / Will-o-Wisp  
- Roost  
- Volt Switch```
maybe this

#

still thinking though

#

Ability: Poison Heal  
Fusion: Gliscor  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD  
Careful Nature  
- Dragon Tail  
- Defog  
- Roost  
- U-turn```
another option

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:17 AM

#

i think i prefer this option for some bulk and feild control

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:17 AM

#

sure

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:18 AM

#

now we could probally use a strong special attacker to abuse solarbeam

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:18 AM

#

Ability: Adaptability  
Fusion: Typhlosion  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Eruption  
- Solar Beam  
- Magma Storm  
- Trick```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:19 AM

#

you had me at adaptabilty eruption in the sun

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:20 AM

#

yeah

#

its killer

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:21 AM

#

might want another physical powerhouse to break through special walls which sun apparently has issues with according to the outdated uu article im reading

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:21 AM

#

probably not relevant enough to the meta

#

vcreate does numbers

#

what you do need is a rock/ground switchin

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:22 AM

#

yeah

#

flying solves ground, but makes rock worse

#

a bulky offensive grass mon might be a solid thought

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:23 AM

#

Ability: Regenerator  
Fusion: Doublade  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def  
Impish Nature  
- Power Whip  
- Spectral Thief  
- Knock Off  
- Synthesis``` maybe

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:23 AM

#

i was just thinking growth

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:24 AM

#

growth is not too impressive when you can get sd or plot pretty easily on the mon

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:24 AM

#

tho that spdef is a bit rough

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:24 AM

#

its a physical wall

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:24 AM

#

yeah

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:24 AM

#

you want it to take eq and stone edge and it does that easily

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:25 AM

#

and i guess kyuscor can act as a sort of special wall

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:25 AM

#

yes

#

thinking one more fire resist

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:26 AM

#

yeah

#

perhaps thick fat lax

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:27 AM

#

im thinking something that handles opposing entei well

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:28 AM

#

good point

#

rock or ground might be to risky for coverage

#

and water seems like a contradiction on a sun team, but just maybe

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:30 AM

#

its not terrible if ur just using scald

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:30 AM

#

pex? pex.

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:31 AM

#

Ability: Unaware / Regenerator 
Fusion: Toxapex  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD  
Bold Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Moonblast  
- Scald / Knock Off 
- Soft-Boiled  
- Wish / Knock Off / Haze / Thunder Wave / Toxic```

#

wish is useful to pass to entei/pz but haze/toxic helps handle setup more if regen

#

eject is also good on regen for a free switch

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

yeah, rejen is probally a good choice with wish and haze

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

sure

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:34 AM

#

https://pokepast.es/cfca3bec5fe5595f
and last for now is rain

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:35 AM

#

Ability: Drizzle  
Fusion: Politoed  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
IVs: 0 Spe  
- Scald  
- Stealth Rock  
- Recover  
- U-turn```

#

better setter

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:36 AM

#

yeah, i just gotta rember legendaries are all fair

#

now we should have someone spamming thunder and maybe hurricane

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:38 AM

#

Ability: Sheer Force  
Fusion: Nidoking  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Thunder  
- Earth Power  
- Focus Blast  
- Roost```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:39 AM

#

if only zapdos got hurricane, cause it would get boosted cause of its barely rembered confuse chance

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:39 AM

#

zap hits 111/90 raikou hits 105/95 and jolt hits 101/100 special offense

#

bit of a sliding scale

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:41 AM

#

i think dos is what imma go with considering it makes up for its slightly lower speed with reliable recover

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:41 AM

#

sure

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:41 AM

#

now we cant do rain without swift swim

#

obviously kabutops seems like the proper choice physicaly and kindra specially

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:42 AM

#

Ability: Swift Swim  
Fusion: Moltres  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Modest Nature  
- Hydro Pump  
- Hurricane  
- Ice Beam  
- U-turn```
maybe this

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:43 AM

#

fast: Check
Poweful: Check

#

coverage: also checl4

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:44 AM

#

Ability: Swift Swim  
Fusion: Kabutops  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Crabhammer  
- Superpower 
- Outrage / Poison Jab  
- Swords Dance```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:45 AM

#

i think i prefer the more consistant jab over the risky stab of outrage

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:45 AM

#

outrage does hit dragon which would resist you

#

or you can use dragon claw

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:46 AM

#

yeah, ill just use dclaw

#

now a spinner should probally be next

#

probally somthing with tenta

#

its already got some real solid moves with Rapid Spin, Knock Off, Toxic, and Haze

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:49 AM

#

ig tentacruel tangrowth kinda works

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:49 AM

#

maybe with doublade so it can also block opposing spins

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:49 AM

#

no recovery then

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:50 AM

#

i mean rain dish is somthing, but yeah

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:50 AM

#

Ability: Regenerator  
Fusion: Tangrowth  
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD  
Bold Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Scald  
- Giga Drain  
- Rapid Spin  
- Sleep Powder / Leech Seed```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:51 AM

#

now im thinking another physcial mon

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:51 AM

#

you need an electric resist and special wall imo

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:52 AM

#

sounds like its time for the good ol water ground

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:52 AM

#

Ability: Regenerator  
Fusion: Toxapex  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
- Thousand Waves  
- Scald  
- Recover  
- Toxic```

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:53 AM

#

tho i also thought goodra

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:53 AM

#

goodra p2 is like average

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:54 AM

#

eh, might as well get one last one in before i go to bed. tho its probally the hardest. the dreaded mono bug team
https://pokepast.es/f298bc8dae0209c1

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:55 AM

#

no volcarona to crutch on

#

epic fail

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:55 AM

#

cant use volc, banned in if ou

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:55 AM

#

thats why i said no volcarona to crutch on

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 4:55 AM

#

compact pebble eh, might as well get one last one in before i go to bed. tho its probally the h...

Impossible to fix 9head

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:55 AM

#

yeah, you kinda right

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:56 AM

#

i dont really see how you get bug to work

#

it really gets nothing

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:56 AM

#

yeah

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 4:56 AM

#

If you want consistency in a IF Dex format I would still say the best bet is bulky teams

#

Or just anything that’s not bulky offense I have beef with bulky offense in dex

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:57 AM

#

What How

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 4:58 AM

#

lets just set bug aside for now (at least until we get more good bugs (so like not until 2026) and move onto dark
https://pokepast.es/a821e2aac9bccd3d

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 4:58 AM

#

quiet salmon What How

I hate bulky offense I always have more success with Ho Balance and Stall

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:58 AM

#

i can understand that

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 4:58 AM

#

In ND all I use is bulky offense because you can actually make fat enough slow pivots

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 4:59 AM

#

Ability: Tinted Lens  
Fusion: Yanmega  
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Modest Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Oblivion Wing  
- Flamethrower  
- Quiver Dance  
- Substitute```
needs this

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 4:59 AM

#

compact pebble lets just set bug aside for now (at least until we get more good bugs (so like n...

Add Hymega

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 4:59 AM

#

quiet salmon ```Hymega (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb Ability: Tinted Lens Fusion: Yanmega EVs:...

Real

#

Can Toxitar try to hold up vs sylvnite?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:00 AM

#

idts

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:00 AM

#

Mono dark is kinda doomed by pixelate mons

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:00 AM

#

Ability: Soundproof  
Fusion: Bastiodon  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe  
- Flash Cannon  
- Stealth Rock  
- Moonlight  
- Parting Shot```
required to live specs sylvern

#

lol

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:01 AM

#

would it be stupid to swap cannon for metal burst?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:01 AM

#

no

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:01 AM

#

Forced into soundproof just to actually deal with Sylvern ☠️

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:02 AM

#

oh right, soundproof

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:02 AM

#

though it might want an actual attack so might have to swap rocks for foul play

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:03 AM

#

So sad Ngas isn’t in dex

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:03 AM

#

too bad bastio dosnt get gyro

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:03 AM

#

Would of been so easy

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:04 AM

#

now i think a poison dark might be nice

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:04 AM

#

Ability: Regenerator  
Fusion: Tyranitar  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD  
Careful Nature  
- Poison Jab  
- Knock Off  
- Pursuit  
- Dragon Tail```

#

Ability: Intimidate  
Fusion: Krookodile  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def  
Impish Nature  
- Knock Off  
- Will-O-Wisp  
- Strength Sap  
- Stealth Rock```
the things you have to do to make monotype work ☠️

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:05 AM

#

itll be (probally, more like hopefully) better when mono is an offical format

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:06 AM

#

Ability: Illusion  
Fusion: Garchomp  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Knock Off  
- Earthquake  
- Poison Jab  
- Dragon Dance```

#

exists

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:07 AM

#

existing is about all we're gonna get methinks

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:07 AM

#

If it was actually monotype shit like pixelate would probably be banned

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:07 AM

#

id hope so

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:07 AM

#

Ability: Technician  
Fusion: Scyther  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Beat Up  
- Knock Off  
- Aerial Ace  
- U-turn```
filler last mon lol

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:07 AM

#

also probally adaptabilty

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:08 AM

#

Weavther is a mon pdecent

#

Doesn’t have dual wingbeat 🌞

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:08 AM

#

epic fail

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:08 AM

#

now who should be in the back for ilusion

#

admittadly not gonna do much cause theyll just click a fairy move no matter what 9 times outta 10

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:09 AM

#

Nothing is saving you from Sylvnite spamming espeed katten_dabben

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:10 AM

#

yeah... dark is not a good type in IF almost entirely cause of slyc

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:10 AM

#

Ability: Technician  
Fusion: Scizor  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Knock Off  
- Bullet Punch  
- Swords Dance  
- Roost```
this might be better against fairies idk

#

i was thinking illusion hymega and ddance on special wall switchins

#

or ppl trying to tbolt you

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:11 AM

#

tho taunt is rought for both

#

but we are very limited in good plans rn

pseudo heron Dec 28, 2023, 5:13 AM

#

Mono will always be super limited in fusions unless your mono steel in ND 🐟

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 5:13 AM

#

im going to bed, next time ill probally work on my poision and steel teams to spite the fairies slightly

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 5:14 AM

#

alr

serene lichen Dec 28, 2023, 7:07 AM

#

these stats are kinda insane

#

would be very powerful in doubles

#

hp is low tho

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:29 AM

#

serene lichen these stats are kinda insane

primal groudon stakataka?

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 7:52 AM

#

quiet salmon ```Weavzor (Weavile) @ Life Orb Ability: Technician Fusion: Scizor EVs: 25...

How do you send sets like this?

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 7:57 AM

#

quiet salmon ```Drifbdile (Drifblim) @ Leftovers Ability: Intimidate Fusion: Krookodile ...

lol using krook without parting shot looks weird

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 7:59 AM

#

compact pebble lets just set bug aside for now (at least until we get more good bugs (so like n...

2026 is pretty hopeful

#

looking at the pace we have now

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:16 AM

#

quiet salmon ```Sandxorus (Sandslash) @ Life Orb Ability: Sand Rush Fusion: Haxorus EVs...

also sandxorus is never bad but do we want dragon typing? seems to me like mamo should be a bit better on the team

#

but idk i like to overrate mamo

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:35 AM

#

quiet salmon ```Jitoed (Jirachi) @ Damp Rock Ability: Drizzle Fusion: Politoed EVs: 252...

i also like umbreon with poli for more bulk and slower parting shot but i know that's worse cause dark makes it way worse

#

but idk just saying

#

also scald doesn't hit as hard

fringe glade Dec 28, 2023, 2:31 PM

#

Hi, are the accepted randsets available anywhere? Similar to how Showdown has https://pkmn.github.io/randbats/data/gen8randombattle.json

muted oar Dec 28, 2023, 3:56 PM

#

vernal vale also sandxorus is never bad but do we want dragon typing? seems to me like mamo ...

Ice/Ground is amazing

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 5:21 PM

#

muted oar Ice/Ground is amazing

indeed it is

gentle pine Dec 28, 2023, 6:18 PM

#

serene lichen these stats are kinda insane

The stats on this are indeed quite concerning lol

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 6:20 PM

#

vernal vale i also like umbreon with poli for more bulk and slower parting shot but i know t...

the whole point of jirachi is to be able to switch into boombursts

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:21 PM

#

quiet salmon the whole point of jirachi is to be able to switch into boombursts

yea that's why i said it's way worse

#

i know

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 6:21 PM

#

serene lichen these stats are kinda insane

badly distributed and psychic steel is mediocre

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:22 PM

#

quiet salmon the whole point of jirachi is to be able to switch into boombursts

what about the other stuff i said tho?

#

im mostly just wondering how you sent sets like that

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 6:22 PM

#

```

#

do you have to ping me every time you reply

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:23 PM

#

i mean that's the point of a replay but i can stop if it bothers you

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 6:30 PM

#

i dont need to wake up to 4 notifications only to see that its one guy whos curious about something

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:39 PM

#

quiet salmon i dont need to wake up to 4 notifications only to see that its one guy whos curi...

yea i get it

#

sry

#

won't happen again

gentle pine Dec 28, 2023, 6:41 PM

#

It's fine to reply to things

#

just turn the ping off

graceful imp Dec 28, 2023, 6:41 PM

#

serene lichen these stats are kinda insane

Who needs a stat spread like that when you can go all out on offense

#

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:43 PM

#

gentle pine just turn the ping off

what

#

how does one do that? or is it the guy who get's replied to

gentle pine Dec 28, 2023, 6:46 PM

#

vernal vale what

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:47 PM

#

lol

#

fr

#

thx

gentle pine Dec 28, 2023, 6:48 PM

#

I mean, it's right there on your screen

#

There's really no better way to explain it

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:49 PM

#

gentle pine There's really no better way to explain it

yea you are right

#

the explanation was perfect

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 6:49 PM

#

gentle pine

this is golden

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:12 PM

#

https://pokepast.es/c37727cf68c612fb
ok im back and its time to fix the mono steel team

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:18 PM

#

explain to me how you're going to win with two 4x,3 2x, and one neutral to fighting

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:19 PM

#

i realize that it sucks, which is why it needs fixing

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:19 PM

#

also explain to me how you're going to handle something like this switching in on one of your not neutral to fire ones

#

if you're going to be doing a mono thing

#

at least cover the types weaknesses

#

and steel means that magnet pull is going to hurt you

#

big time

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:20 PM

#

i do have a fire immunity

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:20 PM

#

and?

#

magnet pull

#

explain to me how you handle a fire type magnet puller

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:21 PM

#

im working on it

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:21 PM

#

yeah but these things should be like your #1 priority

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you dont even have a ghost steel

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:21 PM

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not to be rude, but im feeling overly judged. that might just be my problem

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:21 PM

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mmm

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I came off pretty harsh

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but those are the things that I immediately see

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now with acknowledgement: fighting types arent super common, not enough good ones, and the presense of strong fairies means offensively it's bad coverage

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but it's not a pretty combination

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magnet pull will plague you

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:23 PM

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i genuienly didnt know that magnet pull was a comon abilty, i guess it is probally the best for magnezone

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:23 PM

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ah no

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it's not super common

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it's just that your team loses outright to it

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and losing/winning on a match up sucks

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:24 PM

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i see your point

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:24 PM

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same thing with fighting actually

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:25 PM

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yeah but fighting can be a coverage move to be fair

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:25 PM

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indeed

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as for what can be done to fix issues?

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first off, rampardos is kinda eh

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it's defenses are far too poor to get that rock polish off w/o sash

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:26 PM

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yeah, i was thinking of making metagross the ghost

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:26 PM

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also

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use dhelmise

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:26 PM

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tho that is a bit rough considering physcial ghost moves

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:27 PM

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idk how you make an monosteel team and not abuse steelworker

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:27 PM

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compact pebble tho that is a bit rough considering physcial ghost moves

dusknoir

#

it has a fusion move with 80 bp and good enough attack as the head

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base 105 isnt great

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but it had solid defenses so I think it'd work

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alternatively just run doublade or banette for spectral thief

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:28 PM

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not bad, tho i remebered a steel ghost i have a bit too much bias for. but its definetly worse

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:29 PM

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also consider something else for umbreon/ferro

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dark steel isnt a great defensive type

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:29 PM

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ancient gear golem, aka klingklang golurk

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:29 PM

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one of my favorite pivot mons

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also regen access is nice

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mess with the EVs how you will though

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:30 PM

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defenetly might want a flash fire mon to counter that nast 4x fire weakness

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:30 PM

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thick fat would also be amusing

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dewgong doesnt look abjectly terrible

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or azumarill

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:31 PM

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steel water with thick fat sounds good

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:32 PM

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just alternatives because ground also hurts you enough as it stands

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and most flash fire mons are fire types

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so

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could you explain the ampharos to me

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it seems like it'd set up, a ground type switches in and then die horribly

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:33 PM

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you right, my teams started out not really thinking ultra competivly

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:33 PM

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been too much of a gremlin here to not do that at least a little

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I do think that mono type teams are a fun way to try and make something creative

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but it will be an issue regardless

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:34 PM

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yeah, hopefuly it becomes a full format, but that takes time

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:35 PM

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indeed

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the sylveon/magneton looks generally pretty good

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it's a fairy steel after all

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:36 PM

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this is what i got for the water/steel

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:36 PM

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doesnt really achieve the bulk that i'd desire

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mostly because if that's like a dedicated fire resist you want it to live a good bit

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probably too passive but azu isnt super bulky

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:38 PM

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Ability: Intimidate  
Fusion: Salamence  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def  
Impish Nature  
- Iron Head  
- Stealth Rock  
- Roost  
- Roar  

Chandelpass (Chandelure) @ Leftovers  
Ability: Flash Fire  
Fusion: Probopass  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe  
- Hex  
- Will-O-Wisp  
- Pain Split  
- Volt Switch  

Jitei (Jirachi) @ Leftovers  
Ability: Serene Grace  
Fusion: Entei  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe  
Hasty Nature  
- Iron Head  
- Magma Storm  
- Thunder  
- Recover  

Slowthorn (Slowking) @ Leftovers  
Ability: Regenerator  
Fusion: Ferrothorn  
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD  
Sassy Nature  
- Scald  
- Iron Head  
- Spikes  
- Recover

i got stuck after this

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:38 PM

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ok so mankey's paw kinda sucks, but I think there is one niche but I haven't found a way to use this properly

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:39 PM

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havent you posted this before

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:39 PM

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yes

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:39 PM

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that probopass is hilarious

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:39 PM

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on a rain team

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:39 PM

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and you said it was bad bc its dmg is underwhelming and it didnt have opportunities to set up

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:39 PM

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yeah
i wanted to combine it with a Sniper mon

#

but fearow kinda meh i think

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:40 PM

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sounds terrible

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:40 PM

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which is unfort because this gimmick is fun

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:40 PM

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i disagree on the fun bit but cant you like use kingdra or octillery

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:41 PM

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lot less moves to actually hit with

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:41 PM

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oh i just read your move slots

#

that's neat

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:41 PM

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ana, exactly why it entei has max attack and only 1 physical move?

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:42 PM

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magma storm is explainable

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trapping is good

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but tf is thunder doing

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:42 PM

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just lock in with storm, para with thunder, then just spam head?

#

t wave is right there?

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:42 PM

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thunder hits waters

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:42 PM

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also it has base 100 speed, not amazing, but far from bad

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:43 PM

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wouldnt thunder punch be better off that attack stat though

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:43 PM

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were comparing 319 attack with 229 special

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:43 PM

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1.39x the attack stat compared to special

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1.46 move bp

#

ehhh

#

still thunderpunch is accurate

#

and the damage is similar

#

so im inclined to say thunder punch is better

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:44 PM

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60% to paralyze

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:44 PM

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bro I miss 90% no way in hell am I running 70%

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:45 PM

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skill issue

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:45 PM

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i lost a game because I missed two draco meteors (well a draco and an overheat but same shit)

#

it was bs

#

also is iron head for flinch abuse

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:46 PM

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thunder has more power

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:46 PM

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because sunsteel strike is right there

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:46 PM

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why else are you using jirachi

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:47 PM

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quiet salmon thunder has more power

you could also factor in expected power because of accuracy

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:47 PM

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just hit

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:47 PM

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in which case thunder is like 28 by your calculator

#

whatever

compact pebble Dec 28, 2023, 7:49 PM

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we'll get back to that. we gotta deal with the 2 mons that are missing. im thinking a fast mon with klingklang (cause im obsessed with shift gear) and somthing with metagross

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:49 PM

#

Klinkther (Klinklang) @ Eviolite
Ability: Technician
Fusion: Scyther
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

Shift Gear
Aerial Ace
Gear Grind
Brick Break

#

really old set

#

i still like it though

#

strongest steel stab I've used

#

the 85% has pissed me off before

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 7:51 PM

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quiet salmon thunder has more power

What's this site?

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:51 PM

#

^

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:51 PM

#

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bCQq7sajtuae5EXNZg_KJw1XOy4Fpvugr4wjToONYQU/edit#gid=50772557

Google Docs

Offense Calculator

Pokemon

Benchmark: Draco Meteor Dragapult
Base Stat,100,Raw Stat,299
Investment,252,Item,1
Nature?,1,Stat Boost,1
Ability Boost,1
Ability Weaken,1
Field Multiplier,1
Total,100,STAB?,1.5
Crit?,1
Other Multipliers
BP,140
thunder
Base Stat,96,Raw Stat,229
Investment,4,Item,1
Nature?,1,Stat Boost,1
...

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:51 PM

#

i see

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 7:53 PM

#

quiet salmon https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bCQq7sajtuae5EXNZg_KJw1XOy4Fpvugr4wjToON...

Thx

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:54 PM

#

adaptability hydreigon draco is insane

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:55 PM

#

pory-z?

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:56 PM

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yeah

#

something I used for awhile before I started testing new stuff on the team I affectionately have labeled as shitty drag mag

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 7:58 PM

#

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:58 PM

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jesus

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 7:58 PM

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quiet salmon

that's what you call damage

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 7:59 PM

#

I just realized I didnt do investment

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 7:59 PM

#

which of these would you say is better

#

i feel like vern is better

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:00 PM

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still weaker

#

what the scarf variant looks like

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 8:01 PM

#

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:01 PM

#

plot or specs for poryvern

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 8:01 PM

#

usually specs

#

can do plot

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:03 PM

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I like big number

#

is there a bigger stab w/o boosting stats

#

that's available

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 8:04 PM

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explosion

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:04 PM

#

fair enough

#

doesnt get sun boost though

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:06 PM

#

is this useable or should i use a diff mon

#

feel like theres better ghost types with miltank

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:06 PM

#

explosion on a porygon/metagross with band has a score of 435

#

barely edged it out

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:07 PM

#

honest umbra explosion on a porygon/metagross with band has a score of 435

why gross

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:07 PM

#

what is the best pokemon to fuse with hitmontop

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:07 PM

#

vernal vale why gross

highest attack with explosion

#

porygon already gives stab

#

not too deep

#

alternatively guts ursaring could also happen

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:08 PM

#

snow pike is this useable or should i use a diff mon

probably better ghost

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:08 PM

#

#

it too slow

quiet salmon Dec 28, 2023, 8:08 PM

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we getting outta nu with these guys

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:10 PM

#

quiet salmon we getting outta nu with these guys

fr

#

why are we lefties?

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:10 PM

#

i dont remember what this set was for but i made this a while ago

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:10 PM

#

snow pike

i thought we were atleast getting 4 attacking moves for av idk

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:11 PM

#

that thing looks like it has like

#

0 identity

#

is it a rapid spinner

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:11 PM

#

thats like
default

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:11 PM

#

is it offensive fight/fire

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:12 PM

#

i remember using it vs leads

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:12 PM

#

it is a neat lead

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:12 PM

#

galv leads mostly

honest umbra Dec 28, 2023, 8:12 PM

#

but it just seems confused

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:13 PM

#

i could replace morning sun with priority

#

it has all the priority

#

bullet punch mach punch sucker

#

~~quick attack~~

#

or willo

#

nvm sacred fire is basically will o wisp

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:15 PM

#

snow pike ~~quick attack~~

you wrote quick attack but no fake out?

#

lol

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:15 PM

#

forgot hitmontop had that

#

why does hitmontop have like every priority move lol

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:15 PM

#

i mean espeed is from entei

snow pike Dec 28, 2023, 8:16 PM

#

it turns out entei doesnt have espeed

#

topsy turvy is a move
hm

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:16 PM

#

but yea he get's the punchs and fake out

vernal vale Dec 28, 2023, 8:16 PM

#

snow pike it turns out entei doesnt have espeed

yea it's event