showdown-teambuilding

[main rapids]

it's over....

nvm forgot to add dragon typer

[quiet salmon]

not feeling it

[brisk pebble]

@quiet salmon up for a game? i wanna test my team vs the #1

[quiet salmon]

perhaps

[brisk pebble]

fck it, got some time before a meeting

[quiet salmon]

op

gg

[brisk pebble]

gg

[proper spruce]

I feel like pixelate could be OP if fused right

[vernal vale]

yea it's one of the most common sets

with boomburst and espeed

[proper spruce]

Oh, I’m new to showdown fusion

[vernal vale]

yea i got it

im just telling you to get ready to see it

it is strong

and common

[lofty scroll]

Yep

[main rapids]

trying to figure out whether this should be sash or petaya

sash means I don't have to run sub

can replace with encore or taunt

[celest adder]

Sash would be good, so you potentially have room for another status

[main rapids]

mind blown is only really better than overheat if you get to press it more than once

[celest adder]

Like will-o-wisp or Thunder Wave

[dreamy lion]

Ewww no custom automatically makes Blaziken better for it

[main rapids]

blaziken doesn't have rocks

think of it like azelf suicide lead but it's explosion gets to do more lol

[vestal rivet]

sash is probably better, you're already gonna be faster than most things without petaya berry anyways i feel

leaves room for taunt as well

[main rapids]

petaya is the +spec attack berry

[vestal rivet]

taunt -> rocks -> explosion (in this case mind blown) is always better than trading rocks

ooooohhhh

right

i always get berry names mixed up lol

[main rapids]

ya salac is the speed one >_<

I think encore is better than taunt

cos let's say u trade rocks

u press encore

they're forced to swap while u sub and then Ur getting 2 mindblowns

2nd one in blaze range

defs sash over petaya tho

[vestal rivet]

im personally a fan of denying rocks out right, but its harder to do that in this metagame anyways with every rocker being so fat LOL

so your ideas probably better

[main rapids]

double edge return or self destruction

[gusty burrow]

Retur

[vernal vale]

Agreed return is better

[glossy onyx]

Gluttony with aguav berry would be funny

[honest umbra]

thinking of trying to make a harvest sweeper with pinch berries

[vestal rivet]

lmfao NOW youre thinking...

honestly i was kinda tempted to do something with clangorous soul + a pinch berry in natdex when i was trying it out

but clangorous soul being 33% makes that awkward

[honest umbra]

annoying that the options for harvest are so damn slow

something something dragon types

[muted oar]

Specsruption exeggphlosion->destruction

[compact pebble]

cant use exeggutor alolan?

[honest umbra]

IF dex

not available

I dont do nat dex typically

also what does it do

when I said something something dragon types I was referring to the fact that dragon types resist my move list

[honest umbra]

nothing "resists" the stab combo thanks to tinted lens so this looks decent?

at least as far as I can tell

a bit frail but I mean it can always just opt not to click quiver

[quiet salmon]

why is it uturn

nothing resists it but you can easily sponge it with jirachitangrowth

[gentle pine]

Do you not get volt switch?

[honest umbra]

i do but ground types

[vestal rivet]

volt switch is just worse u-turn

[honest umbra]

would rather not deal with that caveat

[gentle pine]

Why tho?

[honest umbra]

u-turn guarentees a switch

[gentle pine]

I guess, yeah

[vestal rivet]

volt switch never does a real amount of damage

[gentle pine]

Fair

[vestal rivet]

unless its just like

[honest umbra]

a ground type switch in can fuck it up

[vestal rivet]

4x weak

and shouldnt have stayed in anyways

[honest umbra]

it's 70 bp, untrue, but it's just ground types fuck it up

[gentle pine]

Volt switch does WAY more damage than u-turn on this thing. Especially with tinted.

[honest umbra]

yes

but ground types

[gentle pine]

Ground types is a valid counterpoint tho

[honest umbra]

that's literally the reason

[vestal rivet]

idk i feel like u'll just have a regenerator switch in on you

they'll take like 25%

and go

"oh that sucked"

and then they'll leave

[honest umbra]

and then I set up

[vestal rivet]

and that volt switch will have just been -1 pp

[honest umbra]

because tf is a regenerator gonna do to me

"wow nice toxic"

2x speed, SpD, SpA

I'm more afraid of priority mons

like dragonite espeed

[gentle pine]

Ye

And if it’s syl/nite

Just swap to immune real quick lol

Cuz pixelate espeed is the only thing on their brain with that fusion

[honest umbra]

resist but yeah

it's generally just a "fuck you stall mon I'm setting up in front of you"

of course snorcor still bodies me

[gentle pine]

Or yeah

[honest umbra]

but that's just the snorcor experience

[gentle pine]

Resist, not immune

[honest umbra]

seriously

snorcor is hilariously good

[gentle pine]

Snorlax gliscor?

[honest umbra]

ye

like tf are you gonna do

466 hp with okay defense is not chill with poison heal

and base 100 is horrifying with something that just doesnt die

bulkier setup mons still beat it, but damn it's strong

[quiet salmon]

chip you to death

several regen mons use vest and thus have incredibly high spd

[honest umbra]

true enough

it's mostly because they have to switch to get that healing and I get essentially 2 turns of setup

[gentle pine]

The most fun thing to do with poison heal is to do doubles with a toxic mon and throw leftovers on the poison heal as well lmao.

[honest umbra]

follow me

[quiet salmon]

is it 2 turns

[gentle pine]

You could also have a Triage mon

[honest umbra]

could be 1 turn

but it's still free set up

[quiet salmon]

say i see yanmega and i switch in pextar

i spam knock

you click qd a couple times and hit tbolt for maybe 40

[honest umbra]

what is pextar's EV spread that you have in mind

[quiet salmon]

+2 252 SpA Jolteon Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 109-129 (32.4 - 38.3%) -- 96.7% chance to 3HKO

not even 40

[honest umbra]

what's the damage on knock off

w/o an item

[quiet salmon]

0 Atk Toxapex Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 156-184 (52.1 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

so around 35-40

[honest umbra]

oh damn

110 attack

yikes

im guessing you use pextar

[quiet salmon]

i use pextar

[honest umbra]

assault vest is a problem with quiver dance in generally

[quiet salmon]

the problem is 0 longevity

[honest umbra]

it doesnt suffer too bad in terms of typing

only 2 weaknesses

but the stats generally dont line up with longevity

base 68 defense and 69 special defense just doesnt work

even if I cut my speed stat, which I can plenty afford to given, it's not really enough

[gentle pine]

@honest umbra Like, imagine Snorcor holding Leftovers in a doubles match paired with this.

[quiet salmon]

idk why use this over hydreigon yanmega

[honest umbra]

fighting type pokemon technically

I think?

Oh I'm being dumb

no

[quiet salmon]

ur not switching into fighting mons w this and hymega already threatens fighting mons

[honest umbra]

I zoned for a second

was thinking dark/bug

yeah there's literally no reason

lmao

was fixated on the bug typing I suppose and didnt consider flying due to yanmega not having good flying stab

[gentle pine]

Doesn’t it get air slash?

[honest umbra]

75 bp isnt that strong relative

at least as compared to 90 bp bug buzz

so I fixated a bit

problem I have relatively frequently

[gentle pine]

Air slash is good for flinch though. Even just the 30% has good potential for play-making.

[honest umbra]

tf would the EV spread even be

and I think flinching is cringe

stats are too balanced lol

[gentle pine]

Obviously you’d normally want serene grace though

[honest umbra]

unless there's a way to near guarentee a flinch

(double iron bash)

I'd never run it

because I've been screwed by 80% stone edge why would 60% not screw me

[gentle pine]

I mean, look at Togekiss instead of Yanmega.

Elec/fly and elec/fairy are both insanely good typings

[honest umbra]

I'm looking at yanmega for quiver dance + tinted lens

tinted lens just means I dont typically need coverage

[gentle pine]

Ye

T-wave flinch tho

85% total

[honest umbra]

and with quiver means I have a bonus 4th slot to cover for some hyper specific mon I dont like

[quiet salmon]

hymega gets owing

[honest umbra]

that too

[quiet salmon]

solving the main issue of longevity

[honest umbra]

do you have an EV spread you'd suggest

[gentle pine]

What’s hymega and owing?

[honest umbra]

oblivion wing

hydreigon/yanmega

[quiet salmon]

idk

[quiet salmon]

make it outspeed something common at +1

i dont see whats useful about dark pulse

[gentle pine]

Ye, that’s good

[honest umbra]

stab

is there a reason to use some other coverage considering tinted lens

[quiet salmon]

ur clicking owing 99% of the time

[gentle pine]

But yeah, I don’t think dpulse does much

Not good offensively

[quiet salmon]

theres roost, sub, taunt, etc

[honest umbra]

sub

I see

[gentle pine]

Sub would be toxic af lmao

[honest umbra]

and Im using it

prevents me from getting weathered down by status

if I see one coming

[gentle pine]

And now you have a prankster switch-in

If you didn’t already

[quiet salmon]

why does one need a specific prankster switchin

[honest umbra]

also flamthrower is there because I dont like steel types

pre-spore ban carry over I suppose

[gentle pine]

I mean, you don’t need one

But it’s nice to have and just another thing that puts this over joltmega

[honest umbra]

if you see a prankster t-wave it's nice

[quiet salmon]

ive never seen a prank twave

[gentle pine]

Or prankster spore, if that’s not banned

[quiet salmon]

spore is banned

[honest umbra]

and I have

low level play type shit

[gentle pine]

Ok good

[honest umbra]

wasnt actually an issue

but toxic or burn could be

[quiet salmon]

i dont get sash

[gentle pine]

Yeah, sash isn’t required anymore

Too much hp

[honest umbra]

probably sitrus berry then

or leftovers

idk

leftovers for sub Ig

[gentle pine]

Heavy duty boots for rocks?

[quiet salmon]

sitrus does nothing

lefties or orb works

[honest umbra]

you really need to get off team building and into games

[quiet salmon]

im supposed to be writing a paper

[honest umbra]

heavy doesnt exist

[gentle pine]

“The worst she can say is no” lmao

[honest umbra]

go into showdown

make a team

lose like 15 times

maybe win 2 times

lol

[gentle pine]

I’d much rather just go against friends with fun mons instead of full meta.

[honest umbra]

I mean

going into the meta to become able to bully your friends is also fun

[gentle pine]

I really want Comfey added to the game

Cuz I prefer doubles regardless

And triage is fun

[honest umbra]

lmao

+3 priority attacks souns garbage

[gentle pine]

I used it with belly drum snorlax in s/m and people got mad at me quite often

[honest umbra]

belly drum is banned

[gentle pine]

In this yes

I specifically said “in s/m”

[honest umbra]

I know

but you dont get that dopamine around here

[gentle pine]

Which is why I tend not to participate often.

Much more fun imo to do things like “350 bst limit” and whatnot with friends

[honest umbra]

fair

[gentle pine]

Forces you to come up with new solutions

[honest umbra]

that just sounds like little cup stuff

[gentle pine]

My bad, it was 375bst limit

And nah

This is still doing fusions

So I had a chlorophyll Charizard/sunkern

Forgor to add nature, but you get the point

289spa with nature

[honest umbra]

Am I the only person who think a BST limit category or a LC category would be cool

[gentle pine]

It would be amazing

[quiet salmon]

didnt this guy just introduce you to the idea of the bst limit

[gentle pine]

I also used this

I don’t remember the moves off the top of my head

[honest umbra]

to be fair I had thought of little cup before

[gentle pine]

Idk how you’d classify LC with fusions tho

[honest umbra]

it's mostly because the move power doesnt match up with the stats and encourages a fast paced meta game

which is something I like

[gentle pine]

I also had a Clefairy/Yanma that I used with life orb and tinted

Or maybe it was yanmega/cleffa?

Yeah

Yanma is compound, not tinted

[whole goblet]

what do you think about my full sylveon team

[honest umbra]

one slight issue

species clause

[whole goblet]

yea

i only can use this on ag

[honest umbra]

also you just sent a vague screenshot

[whole goblet]

ah

[honest umbra]

open it up and send pokepaste or an actual image

[whole goblet]

there

[honest umbra]

well I dont see any rayquaza espeed pixilate

so you're doing something wrong there

[whole goblet]

this isn't my main team though

mind rating my main team also?

[honest umbra]

also do you not have hyper voice on that sylveon/gardevoir

it's literally just better

[gentle pine]

Sandstream on a pokemon that takes damage from sand

[honest umbra]

also why is blaziken not using speed boost

[gentle pine]

Also, use return on the Blaziken instead of Double-edge imo

[honest umbra]

that too

[gentle pine]

If you’re gonna use Pixelate

[honest umbra]

if you dont feel like using speed boost

also I dont see any steel

so like

5/10 at best

or electric even

(both of fairies like top tier type combos)

[gentle pine]

Ye

[whole goblet]

and yes, this is my main team

anything i should change?

[gentle pine]

I’d say that unless you drop MASSIVE stats, you should reverse the Jirachi

[honest umbra]

what's the point of a rock head mon with one recoil move

[whole goblet]

scarf

[honest umbra]

I can see the intent

[whole goblet]

any better item?

[gentle pine]

Why do you have the bad version of groudon/kyogre?

Is the strong one banned?

Also, drought makes zero sense on ninepex

[honest umbra]

was doing some math

[gentle pine]

Regenerator is infinitely better

[whole goblet]

that's why i need to revise my team

but i need an expert help

[gentle pine]

But yeah

Mainly the groudon/kyogre

It’s like 80bst lower than the reverse

[honest umbra]

that's the immediately visible stuff

I can see the pressure that tyrantrum/groudon can emit

but generally deoxys fusions outpaces it

hell ninjask at max investment can outspeed it

[whole goblet]

so its better if i use life orb on my tyranitar/kyogre?

[gentle pine]

Also, unless dark void is banned, there’s no reason to use hypnosis

On the darkvoir

And at that point, you’re getting nowhere with 55 accuracy or whatever it is

Also

[honest umbra]

fun fact

[gentle pine]

If a goal is sleep

[honest umbra]

speed boost is legal

use it

[gentle pine]

Use darkrai’s ability

[honest umbra]

scarf is silly

[whole goblet]

ninjask/blaziken?

[honest umbra]

yes

mainly blaziken/groudon

[gentle pine]

Expert belt should be removed from all your mons

Especially the sceptile/venusaur

[honest umbra]

fire/ground is good

[gentle pine]

You’d be better off with seed

[whole goblet]

seed? miracle seed?

[gentle pine]

Yes

You only have grass moves

Seed is bigger boost more often

[honest umbra]

no it's literally the same boost

[gentle pine]

Ah

But it’s all the time instead of only when super effective

[honest umbra]

yes

[whole goblet]

i'm setting my 6th pokemon now

and changing some items on my mons

[gentle pine]

You should change the Sceptile out of the Venusaur fusion for a fire type tbh.

[whole goblet]

like charizard?

[gentle pine]

That way you can also have boosted fire moves and a better typing than pure grass

Speed doesn’t matter much with Chlorophyll

So maybe Chandelure?

[whole goblet]

head/body?

[gentle pine]

The one that’s grass/fire and not poison/ghost

[whole goblet]

this?

[gentle pine]

Ye

There’s probably a better option, but that’s the highest spa fire type I though of off the top of my head

There’s probably also a better option for chlorophyll other than Venusaur

[whole goblet]

such as?

[gentle pine]

Not sure off the top of my head

Are you using the completely unlimited ruleset?

[whole goblet]

yea

[gentle pine]

Then I’d say Lilligant

Less bulky, but more spa and speed

[whole goblet]

she isn't in the game

[gentle pine]

You said you were doing the completely unlimited one

[whole goblet]

i'll re-organize my team now

i'll ask again if need help

[gentle pine]

I keep forgetting that Necrozma was added to the game

[whole goblet]

yea

im not using it yet

no fusion sprite/ too few

[gentle pine]

Are you making a team for in-game?

[whole goblet]

no

for showdown

unlike in usual showdown, fusion showdown kind of confusing

[honest umbra]

use reshiram

literally no reason to use chandelure over reshiram

it just has better stats

[gentle pine]

Ye, fair

[honest umbra]

also consider exeggutor over venusaur

better special attack

[gentle pine]

That’s why I suggested Lilligant

Much faster than either of them as well

[honest umbra]

isn't he in IF dex AG

or am I insane

[gentle pine]

Homie said he’s doing the completely unlimited one

[honest umbra]

ah

[whole goblet]

i don't know much about showdown terms

[honest umbra]

I was doing chores

[whole goblet]

mind explaining?

[gentle pine]

What is the exact name of the format you picked?

[whole goblet]

IF dex AG

[gentle pine]

Ok

[honest umbra]

oh so I was right

[gentle pine]

That’s not completely unlimited then lol

[whole goblet]

ah

i revised it

Tyrandon (Tyrantrum) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Fusion: Groudon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Head Smash
• Earthquake
• Outrage
• Dragon Claw

Giraitar (Giratina) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
Fusion: Tyranitar
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Spectral Thief
• Earthquake
• Shadow Force
• Stone Edge

Darkvoir (Darkrai) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Trace
Fusion: Gardevoir
Alt: a
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Moonblast
• Dark Pulse
• Shadow Ball
• Morning Sun

Toxtales (Toxapex) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
Fusion: Ninetales
EVs: 252 Def / 8 SpA / 248 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Baneful Bunker
• Disable
• Hex
• Toxic Spikes

Exegguram (Exeggutor) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Fusion: Reshiram
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Blue Flare
• Giga Drain
• Tail Glow
• Energy Ball

Gallziken (Gallade) @ Scope Lens
Ability: Speed Boost
Fusion: Blaziken
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Psycho Cut
• Blaze Kick
• Leaf Blade
• Swords Dance

[honest umbra]

probably the best chlorophyll you can get

[gentle pine]

In which case, yeah. Exeggutor might be a better option

[whole goblet]

here

[honest umbra]

what does scope lens do for gallziken

like actively

[whole goblet]

crit?

[honest umbra]

I can see the crit boosted moves

but it's like a 50/50 on the 1.5x boost

with a +2 boost

[gentle pine]

I do be liking 50% crit

[honest umbra]

I dont

use life orb or something

[gentle pine]

But yeah

[honest umbra]

or just a focus sash and swords dance

which you're already running

[gentle pine]

You can make something like that work much better with either Sniper or Super Luck

[honest umbra]

sniper is literally only viable on fucking farfetched

do not

[whole goblet]

so life orb it is?

[honest umbra]

yes

[gentle pine]

Kingdra gets sniper, doesn’t it?

[honest umbra]

kingdra is a rain mon best suited to use swift swim

also

octillery exists

for some fuck off reason

not like you're gonna be outspeed shit with like base 77

[whole goblet]

so if i use kingdra fusion

its okay to use scope lens or do not?

[honest umbra]

I'd recommend agaisnt crit strats

mostly because you dont want your game to be ran on a 50/50

not fun

it's kinda okay-ish on absol in certain cases

namely trick room with like

kingler

which I think explains a lot of how viable it is

(it isn't)

this set

with trick room it has guarenteed crits and good speed control

still sucks

because it's trick room

but it was an idea I used

because I wanted trick room

[whole goblet]

like this one?

Kingsol (Kingdra) @ Scope Lens
Ability: Pressure
Fusion: Absol
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Night Slash
• Knock Off
• Swords Dance
• X-Scissor

wait

wrong ability

[honest umbra]

im assuming you mean sniper or super luck

[whole goblet]

Kingsol (Kingdra) @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Fusion: Absol
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Night Slash
• Knock Off
• Swords Dance
• X-Scissor

yea

[honest umbra]

in which case

just use a faster mon

ninjask is fine

[whole goblet]

i see

[honest umbra]

I would suggest deoxy's

but dark/psychic is uh

bad

it resists nothing

but you're honestly better off just using azumarill

[whole goblet]

im going with ninjask/absol though

[honest umbra]

big numbers on extreme speed

huge power is just better

in every conceivable way

this is a really basic idea ripped from OU's dragonite/azurill fusion

it's something i full on expect to see in AG

in a similar vein but with substantially better stats

hell you could put choice band for extra fuck you

also fighting got shafted in IF so normal just adds a ghost immunity

[gentle pine]

Yeah, pretty much required to play doubles if you want trick room tbh.

[honest umbra]

it was a meme and I managed to get to 1300 hundred with it

and then lost most of my elo testing stuff

[gentle pine]

Thoughts on this? Alternatively drop the HP investment for scarf and speed investment. And also swap recover for another coverage move.

[honest umbra]

other ghost/normal types being completely immune:

fix

[gentle pine]

Ye, true

Mu first though was aura sphere to cover dark

But then also dark/ghost

[honest umbra]

aura sphere doesnt add anything

[gentle pine]

So very true

[honest umbra]

you want to cover for the one thing your STABs cant hit

[gentle pine]

Meh, I can do bolt/beam

[honest umbra]

tf is bolt beam

[gentle pine]

Thunderbolt and ice beam

[honest umbra]

ok

[gentle pine]

Classic strong coverage

[quiet salmon]

1 mon that hits shed. curious

[honest umbra]

you could also run griseous orb and a dragon move technically

bit of an off pick though

still ghost is a strong neutral hitter so ehh

dunno if that's worth though

[quiet salmon]

doesnt hit any sheds or spd mons

also walled by imposter

[gentle pine]

As if 5 other pokemon aren’t also on the team

Please contact me when you find a pokemon that counters all others and doesn’t get countered by anything.

[quiet salmon]

you can justify anything using that logic

being walled by extremely common and viable things while accomplishing very little makes for a bad mon

[gentle pine]

You could also provide constructive changes that could be made like b did instead of just “trash” essentially

Cuz adding a dark move is easy on it

[honest umbra]

I mean

all he said was "doesnt hit shed or ditto"

or fast transformers like mew (technically)

[quiet salmon]

the change you need to do is to change it to another special attacker

[whole goblet]

sandstorm/hail

[quiet salmon]

former doesnt hit bug/steel

latter just sucks

if ur gonna pick a gimmick that kills shed just use mold breaker pursuit

[gusty burrow]

Wisp would also work, nobody in their right mind would use a fire type shedinja fusion

[quiet salmon]

clicks protect then switches to fire/status absorber/bouncer

but wisp isnt a gimmick compared to weather/pursuit

[gusty burrow]

Wisp is on a lot more mons than mold breaker and pursuit, but if there's a viable fusion with that combo then use it

[quiet salmon]

the point is that you have a 100% chance to kill shed

wisp can be played around much more easily than pursuit because you cant switch out

i call it a gimmick bc there isnt a good fusion that does it

[gusty burrow]

No boots, that works with rocks

[quiet salmon]

good shed teams use bounce and/or very good hazard removal

[gusty burrow]

What are common Shedinja fusions/movesets (rocky helmet?)

[quiet salmon]

Ability: Wonder Guard  
Fusion: Ferrothorn  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Endeavor  
- Protect  
- Spikes  
- Shadow Sneak```

[gusty burrow]

Oh forgor about pads

[quiet salmon]

Ability: Wonder Guard  
Fusion: Forretress  
EVs: 252 Spe  
Timid Nature  
IVs: 0 Atk  
- Pain Split  
- Will-O-Wisp / Volt Switch
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes / Volt Switch
- Protect```

Ability: Wonder Guard  
Fusion: Shedinja  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Adamant Nature  
- Endeavor  
- Quick Attack  
- Pursuit  
- U-turn```

Ability: Wonder Guard  
Fusion: Shedinja  
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Lonely Nature  
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD  
- Pain Split  
- Spirit Shackle  
- Will-O-Wisp  
- Protect```

all of these should be 0 iv but im lazy

[gusty burrow]

Doesn't a mold breaker pursuit mon lose to endeavor + priority on switch in

[quiet salmon]

thats why you dont hard pivot

you slow pivot

[gusty burrow]

But you can't u turn against it

[quiet salmon]

tbh i havent actually faced a good shed user so this is all theoretical

just do some double switch idk

[gusty burrow]

Shedinja user can spam endeavor vs anything that can't touch it

clearly the best option is to run delibird (unfused)

[quiet salmon]

thats why you use a ghost

252 Atk haxitar switching boosted Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def kyotwo: 270-318 (78.2 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
this is actually depressing

u need scarf to outspeed and u get ohkod by water spout anyway

[gusty burrow]

That's not even a guaranteed ko after rocks... wow

[quiet salmon]

best options ig

[gusty burrow]

What about Zekrom?

[quiet salmon]

oh oops forgot about teravolt

Ability: Teravolt  
Fusion: Zekrom  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Knock Off  
- Pursuit  
- Bolt Strike  
- Poison Jab```
better stab combo ig

[gentle pine]

Also just stronger moves

[quiet salmon]

that matters less when its only role is to revenge kill psychics and trap shed

[gentle pine]

Less, yeah, but still more useful. Way more bulk with Zekrom as well.

[quiet salmon]

no you still get ohkod by everything

[gusty burrow]

Its still better to have defences of cardboard than paper

[remote stump]

Good enough to have fun with? Considering Shell Bell/Chesto Berry/Figy Berry to give it some more survivability, or maybe putting the EVs into defensive stats instead of Speed

[vernal vale]

mabye

but speed boost is banned no?

[quiet salmon]

its a much better use of ur time to use sd stone edge rather than this gimmick

[remote stump]

Speed Boost is in fact banned, damn

[muted oar]

Kyotwo is my favorite

[muted oar]

But then the wonder guard user is always sashed, so you'd have to do this twice

[muted oar]

He knows what he's talking about

[quiet salmon]

true maybe you just add a rocky helmet somewhere to bait it

[gentle pine]

Definitely. But also just essentially "that's bad" with nothing to actually suggest in order to improve things is just kinda being a dick imo.

[muted oar]

Haxorus Dual chop is the answer!

[weak ore]

https://pokepast.es/3545968157693375

opinion?

been using this team and getting a lot of results

I only use mons with custom sprites btw

[void willow]

since you're using specs on Venulure anyway I suggest using the vastly stronger Leaf Storm over Energy Ball; likewise you can consider using Overheat instead of Fire Blast for the greater power and accuracy, though this is optional if you expect to be staying in more often

additionally I would also consider making Tyrancor fully defensive instead of having attack EVs; your team is extremely weak to Stealth Rock and if your only defogger goes down then every single Pokemon except Esphan will be taking 25% damage on switch-in

you might want to consider dropping one of your attacking moves on Tyrancor and giving it either Roost or Protect; having a defogger that's weak to Rock isn't ideal in a meta with no Heavy Duty Boots, and counting on Poison Heal alone might not be enough in the long run

[muted oar]

Omg I ran the same Chareon set I thought I was special!

Obligatory comment that you need to replace your Chlorophyll user with Exeggphlosion. You get access to Eruption, and Exeggutor passes on higher SpA. Eruption being significantly more accurate and much much more powerful.

Dual STAB of Eruption/Solar Beam is 150/120 its wild

And you still outspeed everything

[weak ore]

sounds good!

[weak ore]

Hmmmm, I'll give it a shot

[muted oar]

Also on Haxorus drop one of the others for Sacred fire. That way you have a reliable STAB that you can use more than once, and obviously the high burn chance

[weak ore]

I'll drop superpower

[fallow osprey]

Had an idea

Is this a good set?

[quiet salmon]

no

freeze dry water is ok in theory but 93/85 offenses are really bad and ancient power/ice shard dont do anything

[muted oar]

What is it supposed to do?

Spam weak attacks until it dies?

[fallow osprey]

Good points

Made it a bulky defogger with access to universal neutral coverage

or at least thats the thought

[vestal rivet]

you could also just run it with cm roost max hp max defense

unaware mons probably will happily sit on you cause your base spatk stat isnt super high

[quiet salmon]

fogger with bad defensive typing is not a good role

[muted oar]

It's not really the coverage that matters on this case as much as it is the burn chance, it gives you the ability to get a chance to burn without being completely passive

[vestal rivet]

but hey outside of that this is probably one of the better water/ice types u COULD make

[muted oar]

Which makes freeze dry pretty useless

[muted oar]

4x ice resist, if your team is weak to ice types the typing is great

[vestal rivet]

yeah if youre gonna run water + freeze dry i think u just index into being on offensive mon

4x ice resist is a bad reason

[quiet salmon]

90% of ice move users have something to hit waters

[vestal rivet]

we got like

water steel

it is okay to just say "having ice / psychic typing on ur pokemon suck"

we don't have to jump through 30 hoops to get a reason to use them, cm roost would probably be fine for this thing

[vestal rivet]

bug too before anyone mentions it but theres at least like some good bug typings out there

most ice and psychic typings are just like "well half of your typing is providing you with a stab, i guess"

[quiet salmon]

not getting anywhere with 93/85 even with cm when water steels take 20% probably

only offensive articuno worth using probably

even this is probably not great

[vestal rivet]

lol i forgot how freeze dry interacts with water steels because none normally exist

or well none other than empoleon

whos only recently worth using

[muted oar]

Freeze dry retains it's normal effect right? Then you're taking recoil damage and it's a garbage STAB move compared to Ice Beam that has ~70% more power and doesn't have recoil

[quiet salmon]

it has a 10% chance to freeze

[muted oar]

Oh okay

[quiet salmon]

so it is also boosted by sf

[muted oar]

Okay but it retains the anti water effect?

[vestal rivet]

the secret effect of freeze dry nobody knows about

yes

thats a primary effect

[muted oar]

Hmmmmm okay

[fallow osprey]

oh neat

[muted oar]

You could try articuno/Cofagrigus or dusclops, could turn the fighting weakness into an immunity.

Offensive articuno will never work lol

[fallow osprey]

actually that could work, I've been looking for a solid mummy mon for all of the gliscors

[quiet salmon]

but why would you be using articuno there in the first place

[fallow osprey]

Good question, originally wanted an iron bundle lite

Now there's no particular reason

[muted oar]

I assumes you just really liked articuno

[muted oar]

Then articuno is NOT what to use there lol

[dim jackal]

Tournament in 30 minutes

Hope you guys can join

[fallow osprey]

I do love articuno and I WILL find a good set with it eventually

[muted oar]

Then I'd try eviolite dusclops with it

[quiet salmon]

its one of the only mons with freeze dry though

[fallow osprey]

^ the other options kinda suck

[muted oar]

Yeah but iron bundle, and any good ice type, has its whole thing defined by being a glass cannon that's fast and hits hard, but articuno has absolutely trash offensive stats

[lofty scroll]

https://pokepast.es/159cb04f3601fe6c Team I used in the Tourney (MAD0130 on Showdown). It's been ok but need to make some tweaks to be more reliable. Missed a crucial Magma Storm to lose in 2nd round. Think this team is 20w/4L overall (not including the tourney, not sure as I was around 20w/22L when I made this team). First change is removing magma storm

and changing Flame Body to Flash Fire on Chandeltei

[quiet salmon]

ppl gotta stop running wish no protect

owing does nothing as opposed to fire blast to hit grass steels

flare blitz is better than blaze kick

idk what dhelmthorns gonna do against gliscor sr users

[gusty burrow]

Thats why Umbreon/Weezing has massive 4MSS, it needs wish + protect, and wants wisp, parting shot, foul play

[sterile glacier]

Just run moonlight instead of wish and protect then?

[lofty scroll]

Wish is nice to keep everyone else alive, specially if switching in Sylnite when Rocks are present. It was set up to mainly be anti-sweep, haze for stat increases specially calm mind/defense increases, foul play for SwordsDance users, parting shot to reduce damage when switching with another party member. Dhelmthorns was for anti-hazard, traping them in with anchor shot and whittling them down. Though now a lot more of the setters have U-turn/Volt Switch so it's definitely time to look into something else.

[fallow osprey]

I feel like the meta is really defensive and pretty stall based, its pretty crazy how defensive mons can get, of course there are plenty of strong mons but the walls are absolutely crazy

[lofty scroll]

Yeah plenty of options that can be viable, just a matter of testing to see which works best with your team.

[gusty burrow]

Meloetta Pirouette is going to be really good when it arrives (if it can start in its Pirouette form), we currently don't have any good fighting types

Most steels are steel/water to get Regenerator

[gentle pine]

The announcement about it gives each form a different dex number, so yes.

So I guess there's gonna be 2 of them in-game?

[lethal onyx]

this good?

[gentle pine]

I feel like you have to be trolling

[quiet salmon]

half pp sucks

[quiet salmon]

i picked the first four moves of the movepool type team

[gentle pine]

also

level 1 shedinja self fusion

with a recoil move

[median aspen]

makes sense to me

[gentle pine]

Also just the random 1s in the EVs

[median aspen]

they gotta be trolling or they just can't build a team for shi

[main rapids]

double edge leftovers shed is meta don't listen to them

[lethal onyx]

there is dis aswell

[snow pike]

You should give them moves that aren't the top 4 ones

I bet there's tutorials on YouTube on how to build teams, even if it's not the correct metagame it should help

[lethal onyx]

ok

?

good

?

[vernal vale]

He was talking more about the moves that use atk and those that use spA

I think

Cause you use both

But only max 1 of the attacking stats

Like on darkslash you have focus punch which uses atk and moongiest beam that uses spA

[vernal vale]

max is putting 252 in the evs btw

And evs only get higher when you put 4

[main rapids]

252 attack blessed I'm laffin

[vernal vale]

So the spread 1's dont do anything

[vernal vale]

Big laf

[red spear]

Just as a quick guide:

1. Pokémon have 6 stats. Attack and Defense are their physical stats, Special Attack and Special Defense are their special stats. Physical moves use their physical stats (both attacking with and defending from). Special moves use their special stats (both attacking with and defending from)

2. Every move has a base power and accuracy, you want high base powers and accuracy moves.

3. You almost always want moves of the same type as the user. Moves of the same type as the user are 1.5 times more powerful (they receive STAB).

4. Almost all Pokémon will have some stats that are much higher than their other stats. You want to focus your EV on that. I suggest for the time being you go 252 EV on your two highest stats, which will usually be an attacking stat and HP or speed.

If you follow these simple steps you’ll be on your way to making ok sets and then we can help you out a lot more

^^ that’s for offensive mons, support mons will use status moves, but I wouldn’t worry about that at the minute

[snow pike]

better, but as others have said you want to specialize in certain types of moves. The calyninja shouldn't use Double Edge because it's a recoil move and shedinja has 1 hp, which makes it always instantly faint from recoil moves

And normal type isn't really a good offensive type, you'd maybe want something like Psyshock or Energy Ball

[lethal onyx]

ty

[gentle pine]

he's trolling tho

[lethal onyx]

no

[gentle pine]

I refuse to believe you're not with how many bad things you've shown that take extra effort to place.

[red spear]

I’d rather believe someone needs help and offer it, than think they’re trolling and not

Also there’s people who have literally never touched showdown before, have never heard of EVs/IVs, or know what a physical or special move are. I’ve found myself explaining it a few times to people

Shouldn’t be shooting them down, everyone’s had to learn at some point

[vernal vale]

For sure

Also time spent helping is like nothing

Really no reason to doubt someone

[gentle pine]

fair enough, though I still have my doubts

[vernal vale]

i mean like sure but just saying helping really doesn't take much

[lofty scroll]

Hmm, just replace two Pokémon on my team or start again from scratch. So many possible gimmicks to explore

[muted oar]

The amount of customization is actually amazing

[lofty scroll]

Yeah, I'd be curious what some top vgc/OU players would cook up due to all the possibilities

[muted oar]

This is why we need more players!

[honest umbra]

https://pokepast.es/0dc4af43cf6f379f counters that you can think of would be greatly appreciated

[gusty burrow]

That Moltres/Noivern isnt that good, its going to switch in twice and die to rocks

[honest umbra]

it isnt fire flying?

huh

it's fire dragon

[gusty burrow]

its rocks weak, doesnt have STAB on boomburst

[honest umbra]

I'm aware of the boomburst bit but I didnt know what to put because its movepool is eh

I know it's rocks weak

it's there because fairy steel is a tough type and ground is much easier to play around

[gusty burrow]

It cant threaten water/steels very much and gets chipped way too much

[honest umbra]

im sorry is neutral stab damage suddenly not good enough

[gusty burrow]

Against Regenerator whilst taking Life Orb and rocks? No

[honest umbra]

i mean, I could always just swap them item

also I have like 2 mons with wish + switch support

and 2 others with hazard control

[gusty burrow]

(didnt put in actual stats but its close enough)
252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 133-157 (35.7 - 42.2%) -- 90.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

[honest umbra]

I mean that specific problem is essentially an item switch and it's fixed

[gusty burrow]

That leaves the problem of it being easy to pivot around, you can always switch into your regen mon then a resist to whatever attack you go for

[honest umbra]

was planning on swapping boomburst for u-turn so that's nice

[gusty burrow]

You're still taking rocks

[honest umbra]

wish support plus leftovers recovered because life orb chip hurts

also 2 defoggers

also every mon is taking rocks

[gusty burrow]

Its weak to rocks without reliable recovery

[honest umbra]

good sir you are very obstinent about rocks

[gusty burrow]

That is because is it stealth rock

[honest umbra]

yes but there's ways for me to play around it

[gusty burrow]

Its an offensive mon that doesn't pack too much power for a noivern fusion and relies heavily on wish support

[honest umbra]

then what fire type do you want considering I went for a special attacker

I wanted to do something with fire steel but steel is too slow

[gusty burrow]

Fire is probably better as physical because V-Create is kinda dumb

[quiet salmon]

registeel made me nauseous

[gusty burrow]

Just replace Defog with Roost, you already have a defogger

[compact pebble]

Sun Team I've been playing around with on the IF OU ladder. Jirachi/Ninetales is the sunsetter and backbone of the team who can switch in, set up the weather, pass bulky Wishes to offensive teammates (including Eruption Porygon/Typhlosion) so they can get another chance to sweep, as well as put on the pressure itself with Doom Desire before pivoting out with U-Turn. Next three are offensive sweepers or priority abusers that utilize or otherwise benefit from the sun being up (Sun-Boosted Eruption, Chlorophyll + Sun-Boosted V-Create, Sun-Boosted Fire Punch to break through Steel-types with an immunity to Ground like several Steel/Flying or Levitating Steel fusions running around). Last two are support mons that provide important utility (Rocks, Defog, Status) and can stop other strong sweepers, as well as appreciate the sun being up or otherwise being on a team with three strong Fire abusers that can remove Grass and Steel-types.
https://pokepast.es/7706da92c7e9a2b6

[cedar kraken]

yeah this team is a lot of fun to play if opponent doesn't have a weather setter of their own

send sun abuser, click red button, repeat xD

[sterile glacier]

I've also been working on a sun team. It's interesting to see how someone else does it. Yours is very different from what I've got, though I freely admit mine is far from perfect.

[cedar kraken]

the issue with this kind of team is that with the ladder being small, they're prone to counterteaming

but they can probably work well in a tour as a "gotcha" button, and who knows, maybe as the builds age we get something consistent

[sterile glacier]

https://pokepast.es/2d45fdcddf87c9cc

I've been using a Latios/Ninetales as my sun setter, and Chlorophyll Venustoizard as my primary sun exploiter. Entei/Garchomp with a physically bulky set has handled most Extreme Killers I've run into so far, and a lot of other stuff besides, whether or not the sun is up. Weavile/Hawlucha and Espeon/Infernape can shut down a lot of obnoxious builds that are otherwise rough to break. And Magnezone/Suicune mostly exploits the fact that I've noticed there's remarkably few steel types running around that can actually kill it, so you can lock them in the room with Magnet Pull and set up at your leisure.

There's definitely holes still, but that's what testing is for

And if the metagame becomes too hostile to this strategy, I'll just switch to a different team until things even out.

Even in standard Pokemon there's countless ways to build a good team, and fusions expands that exponentially

[cedar kraken]

ngl the mag/suicune fusion looks a bit sus on a sun team

oh I see, it's a steel trapper

[gusty burrow]

I would recommend a sun setter that isn't weak to rock or has recovery

You don't really need a steel trapped on a sun team though

[cedar kraken]

I ran Slowking/Donphan as a backup setter

when I dabbled in sun

sunny day/rocks/spin/flamethrower iirc

though the team needed a bit of polishing, it ended up similar to Archelosaurians'

[gusty burrow]

I wish we had Pelipper purely for rain

[cedar kraken]

the Politoed + Gliscor in question:

[gusty burrow]

Or just have some random trash water mon have drizzle

We have Politoed I'm dumb

[cedar kraken]

politoed isn't that bad as a head

[sterile glacier]

Yeah, I'm not sold on a steel trapper for this team either, I was mostly just messing around with it to see if it would work.

[gusty burrow]

I completely forgot we had a drizzle pokemon in the dex

I have seen sun and sand, but never rain

[sterile glacier]

Oh, really?

[cedar kraken]

I saw rain earlier

I think the issue is that rain doesn't quite have the same nukes sun has

and sand was born as a counter to sun

[gusty burrow]

Sun has V create, sand isn't that good

[sterile glacier]

You get hydro pump, thunder, and hurricane, but that doesn't stack up to V-Create

[cedar kraken]

yeah

also who tf wants to click hydro

with its 8% ass accuracy

[sterile glacier]

Nobody wants to click Hydro Pump, but the extra 20 or 30 base power matters enough that sometimes you need it

[cedar kraken]

I guess

[gusty burrow]

The focus blast theorum

[sterile glacier]

It's like Focus Miss except worse because it's the best STAB option for a lot of 'mons

[cedar kraken]

it could be worse

stone miss

[gusty burrow]

It could be physical flying

[sterile glacier]

Almost lost a match earlier because Stone Edge whiffed on a Gliscor/Snorlax

[gusty burrow]

That's why you always have a 252 sp.atk scarf noivern pixilate boomburst in the back

[cedar kraken]

truly the Booster Valiant of our times

[gusty burrow]

Booster Valiant is different, it runs 2983 sets to beat your specific counter

[cedar kraken]

fair

[gusty burrow]

Sylvern and Poryvern click boomburst

[cedar kraken]

Sylvern is more of a "AAAAAAAAAAA" kind of guy

[gusty burrow]

(Or very rarely u-turn or flamethrower or whatever funky 4th move you're running)

[cedar kraken]

you probably want trick don't you?

[sterile glacier]

Does that Noivern/Sylveon actually kill a Gliscor/Snorlax though? That thing ate up two Stone Edges and a Sacred Fire (because I forgot about V-Create) before it went down.

[cedar kraken]

yesterday my snorcor lived a zapdos/pory-z specs tbolt

[sterile glacier]

And it was eating rocky helmet and rough skin damage the whole time

[gusty burrow]

The 4th move should be Draco or Switcheroo

[cedar kraken]

in my experience draco is just worse boomburst

[sterile glacier]

Well, if I'd had V-Create it probably would have gone down faster

[gusty burrow]

Draco is good for low ladder when people run soundproof electrode

[cedar kraken]

haha

[gusty burrow]

I've seen 4 of them when I started

[cedar kraken]

yeah, but they're running soundproof electrode

[sterile glacier]

Well, if all you need from your body is "go fast, tanks boomburst", there's much worse choices than Electrode

[gusty burrow]

Thunderbolt did like 40 to my toxapex/registeel

Don't use electrode lol

[cedar kraken]

speaking of regen water/steels

[gusty burrow]

Slowking/Ferro

[cedar kraken]

slowking/ferrothorn is real

[gusty burrow]

Ayyyy guessed it

I've seen leftovers Scald/dragon tail/spikes/?, and AV scald, dragon tail, knock, idk what ekse

[cedar kraken]

I run AV with scald/koff/gyro/dragon tail

[sterile glacier]

Might be tilting at windmills a bit with how bulky fusions can get, but I'm at least trying to run hyper offense. It's worked so far but I'm still low ladder yet

[gusty burrow]

Your sun team steel trapped might be useful

99% of teams have either a grass/Steel, water/Steel or fairy/steel

[sterile glacier]

Yeah, I noticed, and most of those aren't running the sort of moves that can hit a calm minding water/electric very hard

[gusty burrow]

I would recommend sub though

[cedar kraken]

the chad move would be to chuck sub over volt

[gusty burrow]

Sub/CM/Parabolic Charge/Scald

[cedar kraken]

then you get a random "haha I win" button

[sterile glacier]

Oh yeah to make the inevitable leech seed and toxic go away

[gusty burrow]

It's not random that's just Crocune lol Crozone?

[cedar kraken]

isn't crocune resttalk cm surf?

[sterile glacier]

Plus with basically the rest of my team being "hit field, drop nuke, probably die to a paper cut", it's not like I really need a slow volt switch

I was fucking astounded when my Weavile/Hawlucha took a resisted hit and didn't immediately drop down to sash

[cedar kraken]

was it a special move?

weavile actually has nonzero special defense

[gusty burrow]

Wait yeah Crocune is Rest (scald > surf)

[sterile glacier]

This thing's rocking 72/71/77 defenses, it shouldn't be tanking jack

[gusty burrow]

Resisted? Yeah it can definitely live

[cedar kraken]

crocune predates scald by like two decades lol

[sterile glacier]

Ugh, that's no good, I can't proc my Unburden unless I get knocked down to sash

[gusty burrow]

Fake Out Normal Gem?

[sterile glacier]

120 speed isn't enough I need to go F A S T E R

I could run fake out normal gem, but then I'd have to drop U-Turn or Taunt, and those are both very useful.

[cedar kraken]

you should try marill + klinklang out for me so I don't tank my joke team account's ladder rating

[gusty burrow]

U-turn isn't that needed on a pure sweeper

[cedar kraken]

Maklang (Marill) @ Eviolite  
Ability: Huge Power  
Fusion: Klinklang  
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Shift Gear  
- Gear Grind  
- Waterfall  
- Brick Break

[sterile glacier]

Hm. I'll give it a shot.

[cedar kraken]

yeah pivoting moves are for breakers and midrange mons

[sterile glacier]

I'm very new to this sort of thing, really.

[cedar kraken]

anyway I'll try to build around bunny gear and tell you how it goes

73(huge power)/73 with shift gear doesn't sound like enough of a complete meme for me not to try it

[sterile glacier]

I am gonna keep my Latios/Ninetales sun setter though. The rocks weakness hasn't come up yet because nothing on this team switches in more than twice, and I need the STAB nasty plot draco for Goodra/Toxapex reasons.

[sterile glacier]

Bunny Gear, a weapon to surpass Metal Gear?

[sly thicket]

Has anyone gotten charizard/nidoking to work with anything? It seems like it being on a sun team is kinda mandatory but I wanna know if anyone has made a build of the mon that works for them

As much as I love it i know it’s pretty cheeks though

[sterile glacier]

I feel like there's probably better fusions for Charizard and Nidoking than each other

[sly thicket]

Yeah but cool mon combo tho

[sterile glacier]

Oh it looks amazing, and I guess it could probably make for a solid special wallbreaker or midrange beater with Charizard Head/Nidoking body. With Sheer Force/Life Orb and STAB flamethrower and earth power you're going to be hitting impressively hard.

But it's in that awkward place where it's neither fast nor bulky

And that's not a great place to be

All the firepower in the world can't save you if you won't survive to use your attacks

Fusing the other way is just dookie though. Way too much work to get a strictly worse Crobat

[cedar kraken]

the real sheer force user

[sterile glacier]

Actually, now that I think about it, Charizard/Nidoking might have potential as a special blaster on a sticky web team. 90 base speed is sufficiently okay to let you get the drop on most things that have stepped in a scummy web

And it does hit hard

And Nidoking's always had crazy good moves

Yeah, that's how I'd build around it. As a beatstick on a sticky web team.

[cedar kraken]

the more I look at that thing the less of a meme it looks like

I might want to try it for real lol

[sterile glacier]

The Togelix, or Chariking?

[cedar kraken]

togelix

[sly thicket]

Idk why I didn’t think of using sticky web

[sterile glacier]

Well, Fairy/Ground with fire coverage is pretty great, but it's very slow, and that's not the greatest defensive typing

[sterile glacier]

It just works

As long as you aren't too slow

I ran into a Sticky Web team earlier tonight, but because my lads are so fast I was still outspeeding even though he got webs up

But the 85-100 speed tier is perfect for sticky web, and that's right where your boy sits

So go wild and make your Charizard/Nidoking dreams come true.

[cedar kraken]

fuck gear miss, all my homies hate gear miss

https://pokepast.es/b9097424137c87db

four bad setup sweepers, a hymega and a toxapex

[sly thicket]

Appreciate the bigger brain help here do you think +speed is mandatory for it or do you think it can get away with +SpA?

[sterile glacier]

I think you need every point of speed you can get.

But keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who's running a Pokemon with 108 base speed, full speed EVs, and a +speed nature with a choice scarf

[sly thicket]

Honestly I feel like the meta might just go that direction anyways so I think the insight is all that more valuable

[quiet salmon]

thats pretty much the average scarfer

ppl acting as if they never seen scarf latios or something

[gusty burrow]

If your scarf mon isn't faster than the opponents entire team (bar weather/unburden/+2 setup), you're in trouble

[cedar kraken]

whoever decided to give zapmolticuno serene grace of all abilities can...

[quiet salmon]

zapmoltcuno is a legitimate mon u guys just see the rocks weakness and write it off

[sly thicket]

Rock slide make chimera bird go brrr

[quiet salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-horrors-beyond-our-comprehension-low-tier-god-mods-banned-gif-8530537273735940092

[simple summit]

I like Zapmoltcuno

Electric/Fire/Ice is a pretty good wallbreaking suite of coverage and STAB on all of them? Yes please

[gusty burrow]

If heavy duty boots existed...

[simple summit]

You just have to play around preventing rocks or getting it in play before rocks, which is not an unreasonable ask

I struggle to fit Roost on the mon which is probably the thing I like least about it, and that's sort of minor anyways

[hushed junco]

it's funny how it literally dies to stealth rock on switch

[quiet salmon]

its literally the only thing people will focus on

[hushed junco]

someone was using it and to a great extent

not the best mon out there, not bad by any means tho

rock type moves are very rare, besides the latest diamond storm

and even then, a lot of them are very telegraphed

as there is a very finite "meta" mons that actively use rock type moves

~~and articuno gets freeze dry ~~

[tired comet]

It's pretty good, but if you want the birds, can't you just use a normal fusion?

I guess it needing a hazard remover doesn't compensate for its power.

Also haha funny 8x Rock weakness

[hushed junco]

now that I think of it, my team doesn't have defog on it

[tired comet]

I have a hazard removal counter, but no actual hazard removal.

[hushed junco]

magic bounce/rapid spin?

no wait, removal counter

Rapid spin is obviously ghost types

how do you counter defog tho

[tired comet]

Yeah, a Ghost type sweeper with Competitive/Defiant.

[hushed junco]

ther eis an ability that counters "wind" type moves in the newer gens

does that work on defog?

[tired comet]

Nope.

[hushed junco]

oh nvm

it just gives a boost

[tired comet]

Protect also works on Defog, you can block it lol

[hushed junco]

at that point just pivot into something

[quiet salmon]

defog is not a wind move

[hushed junco]

wasnt sure, thanks!

stuff past gen 7 is a mystery to me

[tired comet]

Sword/Shield isn't real

[hushed junco]

PIF is the true peak of pokemon

nothing else matters

[tired comet]

I'm getting attached to the fusions I'm using

[hushed junco]

I had that, then I lost 5 games in a row

[tired comet]

Damn you, empathy!

[hushed junco]

and just decided to make a completely new team

More in line with what the meta currently is

[tired comet]

Had to replace my Krookodile/Feraligatr with a Krook/Tentacruel just for Rapid Spin

[cedar kraken]

when your defensive Milocott sucks but the average Whimsicott body sprite:

[hushed junco]

Imagine playing showdown for sprites

[cedar kraken]

me

[tired comet]

I'm not here just to see the normal mon sprites

[hushed junco]

also @tired comet wanna do a game? I wonder how my team will do

haven't done OU in a while

[tired comet]

For that I'll go to Gen 5 OU

Sure

Lemme go to my PC

[hushed junco]

[tired comet]

K I'm ready

Dunno if I can challenge you, with you being a mod and all....

[hushed junco]

you can

me being mod means absolutely nothing

[quiet salmon]

no u cant if u challenge a mod u get instantly ipbanned

[hushed junco]

[tired comet]

Snorcor...

We're not friends anymore.

[hushed junco]

were we ever?

I hate that mon as much as you do

If you can't beat 'em, join em

[tired comet]

ggs

[hushed junco]

gg!

[tired comet]

My team would be great if Boomburst didn't exist

[hushed junco]

well, you did have a ghost type

that I managed to remove 🙏

[tired comet]

That's... very much not enough.

[hushed junco]

I need, better physical coverage

as in, damage wise

[tired comet]

So something other than John Facade

[hushed junco]

yes

There was a meme on r/stunfisk

with LandoT "Fuck it we earthquake"

I spent a good few hours looking for it, couldn't find it

I wanted to make a version with Snorcor "Fuck it we facade"

[cedar kraken]

we need a big meta overview

[hushed junco]

Stall

Recovery moves

[tired comet]

We need Jimothy Cool on this.

[hushed junco]

Boomburst

Pixilate

what else

[cedar kraken]

as in, for a r/stunfisk meme

[hushed junco]

I could make that actually

[tired comet]

You can add Poryvern, Sylvern and Azunite on it

[hushed junco]

either a starter pack or "Welcome to PIf showdown, we have : "

this mon is stupid

Give us azumarill in OU, ban Huge Power to AG

[tired comet]

And Snorcor

[cedar kraken]

something like this

[tired comet]

Has more counters than Boomburst and Snorcor

It's way more balanced lbr

[cedar kraken]

I already have a couple lines

[hushed junco]

yeye ik

[cedar kraken]

"AAAAAAAAAAAA" ~ Sylvern and Poryvern in a pair

[hushed junco]

obviously

I wonder how my skarmory would do against it

would it even live 2 e.speeds

anyway, gotta bounce for a bit

[tired comet]

Honestly if we were to ban Snorcor, what part of it could we ban?

[cedar kraken]

"I am at peace and in control of my coverage" ~ Zapking | "Fuck it, we Oblivion Wing" ~ Hymega

gliscor or pheal, easy

[hushed junco]

YES EXACTLY THAT

[hushed junco]

none of it actually

either gliscor goes to Ubers

[quiet salmon]

does it really

[hushed junco]

or it stays in OU

[cedar kraken]

"It's not very effective..." (Jirachi + Weezing)

[tired comet]

Walls tank it better, in my view.

Also obligatory ghost type mention

[quiet salmon]

ive easily 2hkod walls with band

[hushed junco]

you have the person who absolutely dominates IFdex ladders in chat

ask anaconja

[quiet salmon]

ghosts have to predict for koff and team can fit a pursuiter

[hushed junco]

I wonder what your team for IFdex AG is actually