articuno is the best freeze dry user
#showdown-teambuilding
honest umbra
pain
vestal rivet
this is like
funny
but your spatk stat
is kinda ass
i genuinely dont know which typing is better because
both typings are so bad
that its hard to tell which one is less terrible
honest umbra
at least with water coverage ice water hits good
also
aticuno omastar gets swift swim
so there's
somethign
vestal rivet
oh true
honest umbra
but you could honestly use glaceon over articuno and it's like
vestal rivet
502 speed
honest umbra
18% better offensively
vestal rivet
i mean look
fleet hamlet
with freeze dry, no type combo resists both ice and water
vestal rivet
if you were gonna not use freeze dry
fleet hamlet
its there a good ability combo?
honest umbra
no
vestal rivet
for some reason i remembered eeveelutions having 125 110 100
fleet hamlet
adaptability boomburst
honest umbra
that's a move ability combo
fleet hamlet
for his ice type, i meant
vestal rivet
for articuno omastar?
you just use swift swim
and its a rain abuser
otherwise its uh
pretty bad
which isnt even to say its good in rain
honest umbra
I mean
honest umbra
basculin exists
but it has been added yet
still good luck getting an attack when you get one shot
vestal rivet
sad we didnt get slurpuff in the last update
we needed a physical fairy type that doesnt suck that isnt azumarill
honest umbra
or we could just wait for them to add iron bundle and watch it destroy everyone's dreams
vestal rivet
honest umbra
we needed a physical fairy type that doesnt suck that isnt azumarill
granbull
vestal rivet
youre right my b
honest umbra
dreamy dove
So. Fire tera Leavanny apparently is doing a lot of work in OU
Wonder if it can be brought into the metagame for this
honest umbra
why are we talking about tera
vestal rivet
or we could just wait for them to add iron bundle and watch it destroy everyone'...
this is probably the last group of pokemon we're getting for if
iirc there was like
honest umbra
true
trail saffron
Heya people!
honest umbra
still funny
vestal rivet
already extremely large issues with memory
dreamy dove
I saw tera as an option when team building
vestal rivet
tera doesnt actually work in this mode
dreamy dove
Ohh.
dreamy dove
Still not too worried, I suppose
But basically. Chlorophyll and fell stinger
Pretty fun combo I'm seeing
honest umbra
how would you get the kill with fell stinger though
dreamy dove
Weaken them first
Then if you get the opportunity, switch in and threaten the fell stinger
Forcing either a switch out if they know or decent chip on switch ins
honest umbra
ignoring entirely the fact that your options are
A. Beedril
B. Cacturne
C. Qwillfish
D. Ariados
because IF dex OU is the most popular play
dreamy dove
Mold breaker
main rapids
latios and kyurem strictly best for adding to sp atk
honest umbra
no freeze dry
dreamy dove
Another thing is, aren't most fusions with Shedninja super frail?
honest umbra
they all have one HP yes
dreamy dove
So all it takes is moldbreaker
honest umbra
so you're gonna make this super specific mon
give me one option who doesnt just lose due to being too weak
vestal rivet
chandy + pory are better but yea
dreamy dove
I mean. Even if any option is weak, I just... don't really care. I'll make it work
trail saffron
Sorry for the ping
vestal rivet
regardless the point was more strong stab combo
dreamy dove
But for moldbreaker options, there's Haxorous, of course
vestal rivet
freeze dry + ground and freeze dry + water are very hard to deal with
u pretty much just need a levitate that eats ice or a water absorb that eats ice lol
dreamy dove
Pairing that with a pokemon with priority and pursuit basically shuts down shedninja fusions
Either they switch out and get pursuit's extra damage, or they stay in and get hit hard.
fleet hamlet
with the prevalence of levitate poison/steel types, what's a good earthquaking moldbreaker?
honest umbra
poison steel seems like someone who really dislikes fairy types tbh
rich basalt
with the prevalence of levitate poison/steel types, what's a good earthquaking m...
Don't forget sandslash also get thousand arrows, so you can fuse that mon with something else instead of going for mold breaker
muted oar
with the prevalence of levitate poison/steel types, what's a good earthquaking m...
Haxorus+any ground STAB pokemon
stark vessel
Any advice for team building? Not really sure where to start but this is what I got so far
crimson wadi
I saw early today somebody using #1178119283214127216 today and i thought it was pretty cool so I made them a sprite
gusty burrow
That could go in #1050404143807873157
slim mesa
Sup, what's new in the kitchen? Any good teams or mons?
dreamy dove
...I can manage to make a budget OU Leavanny with Beedrill/Leafeon
well, for a sunteam
Beefeon (Beedrill) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Chlorophyll
Fusion: Leafeon
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Def / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fell Stinger
- Solar Blade
- Attack Order
- Knock Off
pairing it with a drought pokemon should do wonders.
although ig you could focus solely on offense all things considered...
so 252 attack and 252 speed with a life orb, ensuring while under chlorophyll, absolutely nothing can outspeed.
gusty burrow
Bug/Grass is a very poor typing though, it wouldn't be very hard to prevent it from getting +3
dreamy dove
actually just realized I'm working off of Nat OU not regional OU-
and I mean, it's worth a shot.
Just needs to come in on a safe switch in to clean up
Oh. Drill Run. That's an option, apparently
covering fire and ice type weaknesses
gusty burrow
Steel/flying walls this pretty hard
Even other steels won't take much from drill rub
dreamy dove
I see. Lemme look into what's available for dealing with that while keeping fell stinger and chlorophyll together
not seeing much. Guess I'll have to bring in a fire type to deal with those
gusty burrow
You could run qwilfish on rain?
Unfortunately bug/fire is walled by Fire and bug/Grass is walled by steel, fire and flying
dreamy dove
I mean, switching in another pokemon to deal with steel types, ideally
since it'll be a sun team
gusty burrow
+3 knock off probably won't ko a bulky steel
dreamy dove
I just said "switching in another pokemon"
gusty burrow
That's a loss of momentum which isn't great with limited sun turns
dreamy dove
Fair point. U-turn possibly?
gusty burrow
At that point it's fell stinger + u-turn + STAB2 + coverage
dreamy dove
touche. Not quite sure, guess I'd mainly probably want to leave beefeon on the side until there's an opening to have it jump in to clean up the game
gusty burrow
You could use something like Leafeon/Entei
Choice Band Sacred Fires in the sun with chlorophyll
dreamy dove
kindaaa sounds pretty uninteresting, in my own personal opinion
it'd also mean another weak to common fire weakness pokemon
be it rock, or ground
also had a fun thought. Roar.
gusty burrow
Let him cook?
dreamy dove
It's probably a bit wild but- apparently beefeon can learn roar.
So if I want to disrupt the opponent I can probably use roar while at a speed advantage to disrupt them, and possibly get hazard chip in
making them easier to knock out
gusty burrow
There was a strategy in gen5 where you would try and copycat roar with a prankster mon
To get priority roar and never let your opponent attack
dreamy dove
only other idea I got is possibly yawn
if I'm going with an offensive beefeon set
set them asleep for free damage or what not
there's...honestly a lot to consider. For the most part though. I just want to use Lurantis. So I'd probably have to switch to Nat OU
fleet hamlet
Thoughts? Currently magmortar/Magnazone isn't pulling much weight
gusty burrow
What about giving the magmortar/Magnezone volt switch for better pivoting?
How often does Air Balloon come into effect? If it doesn't very often, what about leftovers. It would make it better in matchup without a trappable steel or once the steel is gone (like a budget Heatran)
quiet salmon
Thoughts? Currently magmortar/Magnazone isn't pulling much weight
mag wants specs or scarf
no point of draco on sylvern
don has no recovery so it cant spin effectively
curse is just ineffective with the amount of regen and ph
idk what pex is doing with ice
swamp is bad bc its one use
gusty burrow
Draco is alright for hitting the occasional electrode
theres not really any other moves needed on Sylvern
gusty burrow
switcheroo yes, focus blast no
quiet salmon
focus blast is a niche option to hit fire steels
gusty burrow
Just U-turn on them
quiet salmon
better option on specs
fleet hamlet
ghost steels have been more of a problem recently
vestal rivet
Thoughts? Currently magmortar/Magnazone isn't pulling much weight
fire steel is a pretty interesting typing for your steel trapper but i think electric/fire or electric/ground are better typings to hit more different types of steels
not every steel type is gonna get owned by fire
fleet hamlet
true
vestal rivet
and u kinda need steel types out of the way so ur sylv+noiv can fly free ykwis
fleet hamlet
maybe pallosand then?
vestal rivet
well
that was like
probably the last thing i would have expected u to say
LOL
i am partial to chomp and chandy fusions myself
fleet hamlet
is the johto triple better as a dragon dancer or special ?
vestal rivet
spatk w sheer force lo
reef vortex
spatk w sheer force lo
Johto Triple has better Attack though
fleet hamlet
not by much
fleet hamlet
mag wants specs or scarf
no point of draco on sylvern
don has no recovery so it ...
is there a better spdef wall then?
vestal rivet
is there a better spdef wall then?
just use a better typing than water ice lol
the problem is not the stats
water ice is just a really bad typing
reef vortex
the problem is not the stats
Defensively yes, but on the other hand, if it has Freeze Dry, it can hit every single type combination for at least neutral damage alongside Water attacks. Well, except maybe some of the triple fusions.
vestal rivet
which is like
not relevant to the conversation at hand
😂
we were looking at some water ice and ground ice types using articuno for that reason earlier
but
its like
kinda not great
ocean shoal
guys, any way to download the shodown for windows?
like the official pokémon showdown
vestal rivet
why would you need to download it
its just a website
the official one is play.pokemonshowdown.com
ocean shoal
because it's more comfy for me to click on the program and play
muted oar
Thoughts? Currently magmortar/Magnazone isn't pulling much weight
Drop the triple fusion it's about to get nerfed hard
quiet salmon
Drop the triple fusion it's about to get nerfed hard
how
vestal rivet
the stats dont match up with the stats in game
https://infinitefusion.fandom.com/wiki/Triple_Fusions
you can see the in game stats here
quiet salmon
epic fail
compact pebble
How good would that Adaptability boi be?
Also the moveset I use
Boomburst
Dragon Pulse
Flamethrower
Recover
I use him in the game but I would like to know how good he would be in showdown
gusty burrow
Specs Porygon-Z and Noivern fusions (seperate) are both very common and both pretty good, I would reccomend Sylveon/Noivern for noivern fusions
teal obsidian
I prefer Pory-Z as the noivern fusion, its faster and while ghosts are immune, ghosts can be trapped for the most part
Noivern/Aurorus is also a thing as a mixup, but its kinda locked into being scarf due to being slow and takes 50% from rocks, in addition to still not getting around the steel types that are generally used to check noivern, so its just kinda ass usually
gusty burrow
Yeah don't use Aurorus/Noivern
Most Porygon-Z fusions and Noivern fusions share their checks
teal obsidian
Yeah don't use Aurorus/Noivern
I mainly remember aurorus/noivern cuz I got smacked by 1 when my noivern check was still Pex/Goodra, Id assume itd do decent against Rachi/Ferro as well
or even Rachi/Tang
snow pike
Does anyone else like Switcheroo on Sylvern as a way to cripple special walls
Sometimes you can run it over Draco meteor, since boomburst is so good you don't need it alot of the time
snow pike
Here's my "gimmicky" toxapex counter set
Relies on someone else on the team getting rid of the steel types
A magnet pull mon maybe
muted oar
Yeah don't use Aurorus/Noivern
Not until they swap its typing anyway
muted oar
Specs Porygon-Z and Noivern fusions (seperate) are both very common and both pre...
Sylvern is too slow
And Poryvern outspeeds mostly everything so you can even run specs on it
snow pike
Poryvern can hit most toxapex fusions, sylvern can't
vestal rivet
Specs Porygon-Z and Noivern fusions (seperate) are both very common and both pre...
poryvern is better in the vast majority of cases, pretty much the only real downside of poryvern is steel ghosts give you trouble, but that isn't really any different for sylvern either. most steel types do not really want to take adaptability boombursts
pix boomburst is good but i definitely wouldn't say its better
muted oar
poryvern is better in the vast majority of cases, pretty much the only real down...
I was hoping that people would get on the sylvern train so I could catch them off guard and dunk on them with Poryvern lol
glossy onyx
I don’t even know what to do against azurill
light lion
muted oar
I don’t even know what to do against azurill
do what I just did apparently lol
transfer mummy to them
fleet hamlet
ambipom/dragonite should beat azurill/dragonite
it also 2 hits swamptiliken as long as it doesn't boost def
though triples might not be a factor soon
vestal rivet
i did not even have azunite on my radar
i am shocked so many people are having trouble with it
muted oar
i am shocked so many people are having trouble with it
Huge Power boosted STAB Espeed
muted oar
And azunite has higher BP Priority that is actually STAB. Mawile had to depend on sucker punch
vestal rivet
mawile had to depend on sucker punch is not really true
it just abused sucker well
i implore everyone to add either a bulky steel or ghost type that prevents azunite from doing anything or a fast ghost you can get into from a pivoting move on a fat mon that can check azunite
if youre getting manhandled by that thing theres a problem w the team 😂
patent hatch
Or just have a better dnite fusion to just outspeed with your own Extreme Speed and kill it with its paper defenses
muted oar
mawile had to depend on sucker punch is not really true
It was extremely slow, otherwise you'd just get EQ'd or something and die
vestal rivet
Or just have a better dnite fusion to just outspeed with your own Extreme Speed ...
yea lol
sly thicket
So question, just found out about the showdown server and I kinda wanted to know a couple things:
-I’m gonna assume mega stones don’t actually work on fusions but is there any mechanic that’s there work for the IF format?
-how exactly do mon specific items work? I remember hearing that all you need is the Pokémon in question to be the body and the held item would work like normal but wanted to ask so I knew for sure
quiet salmon
mega stones make the mega fused w the other mon
sly thicket
Oh okay cool are we only allowed to have 1 per team or can we just go guns blazing with a full team?
craggy remnant
What is the best sun setter right now?
sly thicket
Wait why is huge power red? Gyrados/azumarill was a legal combo for huge power I thought?
sly thicket
Oh alright. I took a look at the pin and just assumed there was a bug or something, thanks lol
keen dawn
i assume that they were talking about natdex
rocky glen
Hey guys. I have a Gen 7 IF Dex OU tournament tomorrow and I have zero idea of where to start with teambuilding for IF Meta. I play normal competitive and I've completed the actual IF game, to give an idea of where i'm at.
keen dawn
huge power is still legal in the regional dex
rocky glen
I'm going to make a sample team to give a better idea but it's not going to be as good obviously
simple summit
i would be happy to look at your team
rocky glen
Cool I gotta make it first haha
I guess i should ask what mons or fusions are considered the best?
keen dawn
Hey guys. I have a Gen 7 IF Dex OU tournament tomorrow and I have zero idea of w...
whats the tournament?
rocky glen
Actually is there any usage statistics anywhere?
keen dawn
yeah i can dm you some
rocky glen
whats the tournament?
its in my server but i didnt organise the tournament
rocky glen
yeah i can dm you some
Perfect thank you
worthy falcon
Updated sprite for "mr long arms"
raw mulch
Weavile with whom?
trail saffron
Updated sprite for "mr long arms"
That's funny and I love how you said it's like a update for "Mr long arms"
Sandslash being the body
worthy falcon
I actually have so many more of these but I can't post them because rules
stiff gate
https://i.imgur.com/1wM8lgU.png trying to finish this IF OU sand team, any help?
obv super ground and fighting weak, open to changes
cb aqua jet and bullet punch makes for a great revenge mon, but i really dont like stacking weaknesses like this
vestal rivet
why rock grass out of curiousity
stiff gate
wanted a sand setter with momentum, celebi was the best option stats wise
not super attached to rock grass tho
vestal rivet
jirachi offers a lot of the same
and gives you ttar body
so your stats are less scuffed
steel/dark is weak to fighting but its fiiiine
stiff gate
oh wait i just realized this is an amazing doom desire pivot
no regenerator, sadly, but hey
vestal rivet
well look you cant have as one (regenerator + sand stream) so
stiff gate
yuuup, still need that sand setter sadly
yeah looks like i cant fit in feraligatr/scizor without stacking fighting weakness
vestal rivet
oh
i did forget to mention this
but cb + first impression
is kinda
crazy
lol
stiff gate
yeah that was a filler slot
first impression is funny
but god damn like 90% of the tier resists it
vestal rivet
yeah i was playing with
this as an idea
because of that
can also run roost in the last slot
probably just leftovers / life orb as the item
stiff gate
how often do you envision defiant coming up
i dont see that much defog in the tier tbh
vestal rivet
main reason i use defiant / competitive is on ghost types
becuz it lets u effectively completely deny hazard removal with that one mon
mostly useful for ho teams
stiff gate
oh wait i forgot marill is legal in the tier LOL
gusty burrow
It is busted, I wouldn't recommend eviolite with roost/Defog though, it's not very bulky even with the boosts
It might allow you to get a DD off, but generally band is better
fleet hamlet
I've been using bewear/cofagrigus with fluffy as my physical tank, but is there a better fusion?
I'm already running tox as my special tank
I'm hesitant to use tangrowth because grass
gentle pine
I've been using bewear/cofagrigus with fluffy as my physical tank, but is there ...
I think in general you’d be better off using Dusknoir over Cofagrigus for that.
Like, you’re only slightly less physically bulky with way higher attack and special bulk.
I think Dusknoir generally has better moves as well.
Idk what item or EVs you’d want.
But that’s what just kinda rolled off the top of my head.
Prolly leftovers
Just to take advantage of the burn/leftovers differential with protect
vestal rivet
yeah generally speaking if you arent using mummy then dusknoir / dusclops will be better picks
gentle pine
If you use dusclops, then you can do eviolite lol
vestal rivet
ye
gentle pine
I think you’d probably get more out of dusknoir/leftovers though, personally.
With Fluffy, I’d probably just swing it to be a mixed tank though. Max spdef and hp
gentle pine
Really, you would only need to switch out of fire types
And maybe dark/ghost or dark/poison
You pretty much either 1-shot it or die to it.
Even other sorts of dark type combos should be fine tbh.
brisk pebble
Suggestion for items? Choice Band would be the obvious choice, but i'd like to have an option to use Swords Dance
quiet salmon
why this
brisk pebble
wdym?
gentle pine
Suggestion for items? Choice Band would be the obvious choice, but i'd like to h...
Could do scope lens for 50% crit rate on Leaf Blade
In which case I'd also swap Spectral Thief for Shadow Claw.
Also
Curious as to what specifically you're trying to out-speed with exactly 500 speed after chlorophyll activates
Or with 250 speed before it.
brisk pebble
Curious as to what specifically you're trying to out-speed with exactly 500 spee...
It's my benchmark. It's enough to outspeed a Timid Scarfed Sylvern (499 speed)
Hmm, will give scope lens a go, although tbh i'm not a fan of having to gamba with crits
gentle pine
50% isn't exactly gamba tbh lol
brisk pebble
Was originally gonna try focus sash, but it's not really that frail, especially physically
gentle pine
which format is that for, btw?
brisk pebble
which format is that for, btw?
IF OU
gentle pine
nat or regional
brisk pebble
IF OU
For now switched to Trevenant instead of Banette if i'm not running Spectral thief for better bulk
snow pike
Suggestion for items? Choice Band would be the obvious choice, but i'd like to h...
life orb
muted oar
For now switched to Trevenant instead of Banette if i'm not running Spectral thi...
Speed ties with scarfed Sylvern, F tier set
brisk pebble
Speed ties with scarfed Sylvern, F tier set
?? Pretty sure it's faster than Timid + Scarf Sylvern
brisk pebble
depends if it rounds up or down
Pokemon always uses floor functions, so it's always rounded down
Sylvern's max possible speed is 499
muted oar
?? Pretty sure it's faster than Timid + Scarf Sylvern
It's not
You sure they round down?
brisk pebble
You sure they round down?
Unless IF works differently, it always rounds down
Pokemon uses the floor function as mentioned, so it'll always round down the numbers in brackets
muted oar
Ah okay
muted oar
Unless IF works differently, it always rounds down
Wait did you just have 200 EV's exactly so you could outspeed Sylvern?
brisk pebble
Wait did you just have 200 EV's exactly so you could outspeed Sylvern?
Yeah, i don't have a good reference for what else to outspeed
brisk pebble
Each mon is pretty good. Idk about whether the team synergizes or not, that's for you to balance
rocky glen
that's more or less what I was hoping to get help with
brisk pebble
Actually... Not sure whether Garchomp/Scizor is good or not, how does it perform?
rocky glen
there's no notable weaknesses, but I think it's offensively where I get shafted
brisk pebble
It seems over-reliant on setting up Swords Dance to sweep
rocky glen
It does good
brisk pebble
Also, picking Choice Band over Eviolite for your Azunite? It can be revenged killed by most Espeed users
rocky glen
its clef/rsteel that i feel is the weakest
I feel like I have too much Fairy and Steel offense but not enough of other types
hazy crescent
fairy steel is probally one of the best defensive types with good support like a water/normal bulky offense (something based of regigigas, waterfall, noraml stab, heat crash, knock off), play around pokemon with good immunity's
muted oar
I feel like I have too much Fairy and Steel offense but not enough of other type...
Fairy/steel is the best typing in the game defensively but not offensively
dreamy agate
https://pokepast.es/ff72336006b353dc
1: umbreon gets completely shut down by taunt,
2: azurill dragonite feels not very smart when you can run marill who at least has slightly better stats to work off
3: same mon, jolly nature over adamant when at risk of being outsped by other espeed users would be the better play
4: psychic on chandelure doesn't feel as necassary, fire move such as fire blast or flamethrower would probably be better
5: same issue as azurill dragonite, modest over timid nature doesn't feel great when there's other scarfers
6: same thing for sylveon noivern
brisk pebble
1: umbreon gets completely shut down by taunt,
2: azurill dragonite feels not ve...
Taunt is too slow to be used with most of IF's popular mons, and is typically carried by Prankster supports, which Umbreon is immune to
The difference in stats between Azurill and Marill is negligible in the face of ESpeed having STAB (since Azurill is a normal type), which is the whole point of the gimmick
Unfortunately Jolly nature won't save it from its incredibly low speed. Which is why most Azurill/Dragonites carry Eviolite
Agree
Agree, but again, Scarfers would outspeed even if u use Timid/Jolly anyways. But Timid/Jolly is generally preferred unless u know you're not outspeeding anything
Agree with point above
dreamy agate
im aware of prankster taunt but there's nothing stopping someone from simply running taunt on a not very offensive mon anyway and being able to get it off making umbreon useless
also this is coming from doubles brain so im gonna have different things to say
brisk pebble
While that's possible, i've yet to run into non-prankster fast supports with taunt
dreamy agate
It seems over-reliant on setting up Swords Dance to sweep
also yeah i do agree with this
the garchomp doesn't feel like it would do a lot
teal obsidian
Also, picking Choice Band over Eviolite for your Azunite? It can be revenged kil...
isnt that true for eviolite as well? I feel like the solution is to just not stay in against faster espeeders
dreamy agate
there are situations where that is not a possible solution
brisk pebble
In my tests, an ESpeed from a PZ/Dragonite could not OHKO an eviolite Azurill/Dragonite
On the other hand, the ESpeed with Huge Power would OHKO it in return
teal obsidian
In my tests, an ESpeed from a PZ/Dragonite could not OHKO an eviolite Azurill/Dr...
Id assume this is without rocks tho
brisk pebble
Id assume this is without rocks tho
Without yes
brisk pebble
Actually, i've yet to test Dragonite/Ursaring ESpeed, brb
teal obsidian
I havent had much trouble so far
teal obsidian
ye, at the start there were plenty people who ran magic bounce, and if the rocks setter matches up badly that also makes things harder
dreamy agate
exactly
rocky glen
1: umbreon gets completely shut down by taunt,
2: azurill dragonite feels not ve...
Sorry but half of this is bad advice
teal obsidian
but in general its realistic to get up rocks
dreamy agate
Sorry but half of this is bad advice
in what fucking way
teal obsidian
so its generally better to not have to rely on it
frankly I wouldnt rely on an espeeder as my first check to an espeeder anyway, I like my balance
dreamy agate
that too
teal obsidian
Im just saying from a perspective of running azu dnite I feel like its more consistent to go for greater damage than to rely on rocks not being up
rocky glen
The first 3 points are just wrong, and out of 6 criticisms that is half
teal obsidian
specially cuz ur gonna run into plenty bulky steels cuz of the noivern pandemic
rocky glen
And there was no offense intended, I was just making an observation. But you don't have to get heated about it, why should you care about my opinion on your opinion after all
The last 3 I wouldn't consider bad advice as that's pretty subjective
brisk pebble
Okay, tested, an Ursaring/Dnite can take a hit from Huge Power Espeed, so in a battle between Azurill/Dnite and Ursaring/Dnite, Azurill/Dnite would lose if it's slower
rocky glen
I don't think either or is wrong, I'd be willing to switch to Timid/Jolly
rocky glen
Okay, tested, an Ursaring/Dnite can take a hit from Huge Power Espeed, so in a b...
is it not always slower?
teal obsidian
is it not always slower?
if azu runs speed and ursa doesnt azu is faster
rich basalt
Okay, tested, an Ursaring/Dnite can take a hit from Huge Power Espeed, so in a b...
What ability is ursaring/dragon ite running?
brisk pebble
is it not always slower?
I never invested in speed for Ursaring/Dnite. It's so fcking slow, it would be more useful to invest in HP instead
rocky glen
makes sense
brisk pebble
What ability is ursaring/dragon ite running?
Guts
rocky glen
I never invested in speed for Ursaring/Dnite. It's so fcking slow, it would be m...
thats fair
rocky glen
bc its HO
brisk pebble
why not scale
It's an ESpeed bot
teal obsidian
but muh 2 swords dances
dreamy agate
multiscale has its uses
rocky glen
but muh 2 swords dances
Oh MrSchrub i fought you on ladder before
brisk pebble
Generally ESpeed mons use whatever abilities can give them a boost in their ESpeed dmg. If you want to use Multiscale go ahead, but u'll notice yourself getting revenge killed more often if the mon survives
teal obsidian
Oh MrSchrub i fought you on ladder before
my greed exposed me
dreamy agate
honestly i don't play singles so like this doesn't particularly matter to me
rocky glen
Lmfao
brisk pebble
Well Conor was asking for opinions for his team in singles i believe>?
rocky glen
Yup
dreamy agate
yeah i know
rocky glen
IF Gen 7 OU
brisk pebble
Cuz if he was asking for doubles, he'd need to go back to the drawing board
dreamy agate
im aware of how singles works
teal obsidian
tbh, I kinda wanna build summin for doubles, whats the big threats?
rocky glen
my balls
teal obsidian
Id assume noivern boomburst is an archetype for some reason?
dreamy agate
tbh, I kinda wanna build summin for doubles, whats the big threats?
a lot of the same stuff as singles
dreamy agate
Id assume noivern boomburst is an archetype for some reason?
yes
theres not a lot of people playing really
dreamy agate
generally the way i've found works for me is to build things that work in gen 9 vgc for example and try to replicate that role in if doubles
teal obsidian
https://pokepast.es/de25c263a66356cf
I do think 1 of the scarfers should prolly be jolly/timid
dreamy agate
generally the way i've found works for me is to build things that work in gen 9 ...
like how hisuain arcanine is currently everywhere in gen 9 vgc, i try to replicate it and itrs role
brisk pebble
i forgot to mention, in my re-tests with PZ/DNite vs Azurill/DNite, it seems that PZ/DNite with 0 HP investments MIGHT survive an ESpeed, so if you low roll, prepare to get revenged killed
dreamy agate
high and low rolls can be a pain
rocky glen
I do think 1 of the scarfers should prolly be jolly/timid
Which do you think?
brisk pebble
Needless to say, without Eviolite...
teal obsidian
Which do you think?
sylveon probably
its faster and chadelure would just end up with 2 scarfers at around the same speed tier
brisk pebble
If you continue running banded Azunite, make sure u switch if u fight other ESpeed users. Fortunately u have a ghost type and 2 defensive mons, so it wouldn't be so bad
teal obsidian
https://pokepast.es/de25c263a66356cf
also, ur entei is missing 4 evs
muted oar
Needless to say, without Eviolite...
PorygonZ/Dragonite?
rocky glen
also, ur entei is missing 4 evs
brisk pebble
PorygonZ/Dragonite?
Yeah?
rocky glen
Needless to say, without Eviolite...
I have chandelure with Tbolt for this reason
i wouldnt stay in on an espeeder
rocky glen
PorygonZ/Dragonite?
adaptability espeed
muted oar
Yeah?
Just asking to confirm you're not running like Porygon2 with download/eviolite or something instead, cuz they'd have the same name
muted oar
adaptability espeed
Ik that
teal obsidian
looking at that chandelure I think I remember facing u before, I think I trapped it, no?
muted oar
ah i thought you were wondering why
Nah it's obvious why lol. But technically Porygon2+eviolite would have more bulk and damage assuming you don't get knocked off and that you are facing a mon with higher special bulk
rocky glen
Nah it's obvious why lol. But technically Porygon2+eviolite would have more bulk...
imo i'd rather just have the raw power of band than bulk
but i also dont play this meta
teal obsidian
would have been today or around 14 hours ago
prolly 14 hours ago, today I only faced someone called Pinazo
rocky glen
so im sure you all are more familiar
teal obsidian
Hot takes on this
Railass (Raichu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
Fusion: Froslass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Block
- Electrify
rocky glen
Rail ass
muted oar
imo i'd rather just have the raw power of band than bulk
Yeah I would go with Z too, but 2 is something to think about
rocky glen
Fair
muted oar
2 would be more bulky offense, it has insanely more bulk and more damage absent band and assuming the mon is SpD favored
dreamy agate
basically what i meant yeah
muted oar
2 is defense with slight damage to it
Yeah pretty much
teal obsidian
eviolite multiscale for setting to +6 for flexing purposes 🦹
dreamy agate
(words are difficult)
muted oar
(words are difficult)
Sorry
brisk pebble
Hot takes on this
Railass (Raichu) @ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
Fusion...
Electrify Lightning Rod? Why Raichu and not Jolteon?
brisk pebble
Also it's incredibly fragile, so if u try to Block and the opponent OHKOs u...
teal obsidian
Electrify Lightning Rod? Why Raichu and not Jolteon?
cuz jolteon is absorb, so it just gets health back, raichu gets SpA boosts
dreamy agate
raichu also gets fake out btw
teal obsidian
idea is to force a switch, trap something and set up to +6 while theyre forced to attack you
to then probably die cuz shadow ball hits like a wet noodle or something
muted oar
87/93/96+Eviolite+Multiscale is crazy bulk lol. At full health you take 1/3 normal damage
brisk pebble
Hmm... 350 speed is not bad. It can be outspeed, but it would require like an electrode body or scarf
brisk pebble
raichu also gets fake out btw
For a singles battle, it's a wasted move slot, especially when he needs 2 STABS, electrify, and Block
muted oar
to then probably die cuz shadow ball hits like a wet noodle or something
How do you set up to +6 w/no boosting moves
dreamy agate
How do you set up to +6 w/no boosting moves
lightning rod
teal obsidian
How do you set up to +6 w/no boosting moves
Electrify lightning rod
brisk pebble
It's an interesting gimmick for sure
It's not good against faster mons/scarfers, or the occasional mold breaker/unaware users, but it's interesting
muted oar
So how do you survive on the turn that you use block? Their attack isn't electrified then
teal obsidian
It's not good against faster mons/scarfers, or the occasional mold breaker/unawa...
tbf if ur facing mold breaker u can just switch out and try again, might actually help cuz the fear of it might be more threatening than the mon itself
teal obsidian
So how do you survive on the turn that you use block? Their attack isn't electri...
scare out summin
if u just spam electrify theyre bound to not use attacking moves
tho theyre also gonna bring in something that can threaten u most likely
dreamy agate
is it ion deluge that only makes normal moves electric type or is that electrify
i feel like its ion deluge
teal obsidian
is it ion deluge that only makes normal moves electric type or is that electrify
that is indeed ion deluge
brisk pebble
is it ion deluge that only makes normal moves electric type or is that electrify
Ion Deluge and Plasma fists only affect normal moves
dreamy agate
just checking thank you
teal obsidian
electrify is heliolisks signature
brisk pebble
Kinda dumb that Plasma Fists only affects Normal moves... feels like it could've made Electivire good
teal obsidian
Kinda dumb that Plasma Fists only affects Normal moves... feels like it could've...
tbf it wouldve made zeraora an absolute pain
brisk pebble
fair
teal obsidian
o, the doubles formats are AG, thats kinda quirky
dreamy agate
yeah
tired comet
https://pokepast.es/28dbf485982044fe
Tried to make a competent team with Sticky Web. Any criticism is welcome.
I'm still not that good at teambuilding, but I tried to be a bit original.
red spear
it looks p good
I'd point out the Aguav berry, it's a bit of an odd item to run, not necessarily bad tho, and a lack of Volt Switch on the Jolteon
tired comet
I had Ancient Power over Volt Switch mostly because coverage + omniboost funnee
Wait Jolteon I'm dumb
Yeah I'll run Volt Switch on it
snow pike
should I use another pokemon?
dreamy lion
Scyther and Scizor give QD and technician which you could use to pack a beefy hidden power of your preferred type
simple summit
you probably want to go with Steel/Bug with either venomoth or yanmega imo, tinted lens Steel or Bug is a better neutral type and you get a normal and fairy resist, so its harder to be revenge killed by espeed / pixiespeed users
dreamy lion
I tried out Registeel/Yanmega (Steel/Flying), decent bulk
Access to some nice coverage
fallow osprey
I tried out Registeel/Yanmega (Steel/Flying), decent bulk
I have them for my planned ru team
honest umbra
as a defensive mon how well does this do
vestal rivet
it gets recovery and has a good typing and stats
as well as the ability to set hazards
honest umbra
it also just doesnt care about shadow ball or boomburst
which is
honestly really good in this meta game
vestal rivet
unless there's a mistake, shadow ball is not a sound move
vestal rivet
yea
honest umbra
I feel like there's better movesets
I find this amusing as a crit-me-not sweeper considering you cant crit it
swap the flamethrower for soft-boiled though
brisk pebble
unless there's a mistake, shadow ball is not a sound move
They probably confused Soundproof with Bulletproof, which does block Shadow Ball
brisk pebble
I feel like there's better movesets
How much health is lost from an EQ?
I think you're more likely to benefit from physical def investments over special, but it's your preference
Hmm... but if it's a Sylvern counter...
Will have to run the numbers when i get back home
quiet salmon
I find this amusing as a crit-me-not sweeper considering you cant crit it
ice epic fail
main rapids
it also just doesnt care about shadow ball or boomburst
it's bulletproof that blocks shadowball
fleet hamlet
I feel like there's better movesets
consider making the nature +def, having base 143 will make the boost significant
gusty burrow
I find this amusing as a crit-me-not sweeper considering you cant crit it
A sweeper Clefable fusion that can be toxic'd
And no recovery
honest umbra
it's bulletproof that blocks shadowball
thank
honest umbra
behold, bizarre set
iron fist gives boost to drain and mega punch and that means big number
weak attack and speed though so it kinda sucks
rapid glade
Iron fist is only 1.2x damage in if too, isnt it
Literally weaker and less accurate than return
muted oar
behold, bizarre set
Looks horrid no offense
honest umbra
I feel like it should be obvious that it's weak given I didnt read the ability description
main rapids
if you want to make an iron fist mon make it sub punch
something that forces switches and can sub on it
either t hat or dry focus punch
spores banned now so the strongest mon for it (breeloom) doesnt even have sleep powder
main rapids
smthing like this
or like this
high def and slow sleep powder ensures u get a safe sub after powder
but it's just like kinda mid
gusty burrow
Non-stab focus punch won't do much to anything not named Blissey, which is banned
main rapids
u can also go subseed punch
main rapids
Non-stab focus punch won't do much to anything not named Blissey, which is banne...
yea
gusty burrow
I fought a Klefki/Breloom that was sub punch, don't know what the other 2 moves were though
main rapids
I fought a Klefki/Breloom that was sub punch, don't know what the other 2 moves ...
i was running that pre spore ban
subseed punch
it's just a matchup fish
gusty burrow
It might have been you lol
main rapids
some teams had no play against it
gusty burrow
Most teams grasses are grass/steel, nice
honest umbra
just here to complain that the only strong jaw user is tyrantrum and he has no stab on any bite moves and I hate game freak
Like not even just the moves in his movepool, no, it just doesnt exist
main rapids
the thing was even if you swapped for ur tangrowth rachi or something on the sub, the breeloom still got a free chunk
gusty burrow
just here to complain that the only strong jaw user is tyrantrum and he has no s...
You should have voted for Bruxish smh
main rapids
just here to complain that the only strong jaw user is tyrantrum and he has no s...
😭
gusty burrow
Ok no we don't need that
honest umbra
it'd be funny
gusty burrow
We absolutely don't need that
main rapids
it's worse to play against than boomburst
gusty burrow
It's so much stronger
honest umbra
I know
main rapids
cos it can be rain boosted etc
gusty burrow
Strong jaw thiugh
honest umbra
I mean we can expect dracovish to get banned
so it'd probably just end up with people like, making an improvised dracovish
gusty burrow
Is it not in natdex???
gusty burrow
It's funny how Dracovish made Trapinch viable. Such a weird chain of viability
honest umbra
huh
main rapids
i dont even think u use strong jaw
honest umbra
I mean trapinch is decent because of sheer power
main rapids
if crawduant were in adaptability is better
honest umbra
but there's always just nidoking
main rapids
It's funny how Dracovish made Trapinch viable. Such a weird chain of viability
arena trap endeavour quick attack?
honest umbra
why tf would you use that over dugtrio
gusty burrow
arena trap endeavour quick attack?
Eviolite with Giga Drain
main rapids
HUH
honest umbra
I see?
main rapids
wild
gusty burrow
It was some strange EV spread too
main rapids
why tf would you use that over dugtrio
trappinch is played in gen 3 ubers very rarely
memetier but it's the only trapper with quick attack iirc
gusty burrow
It was purely for Dracovish in early gen8
honest umbra
lmao
main rapids
yea dracovish is natdex ubers
honest umbra
supposedly ghost/fighting is a really good offensive type and this one amused me
ignoring focus blasts obvious issues
gusty burrow
A lot of ghosts get spectral thief in IF
vestal rivet
you can use aura sphere + vacuum wave on infernape
quiet salmon
aura sphere is awful
main rapids
supposedly ghost/fighting is a really good offensive type and this one amused me
u have access to vacum wave
honest umbra
first of all
main rapids
it's better than focus blast tho
honest umbra
it does not have aura sphere
rapid glade
i still dont know why they nerfed aura sphere
gusty burrow
Fighting special moves suck. All of them
main rapids
time to make natdex rain....
vestal rivet
it does not have aura sphere
honest umbra
secondly
vestal rivet
continue, im now invested
gusty burrow
Natdex?
honest umbra
ok
rapid glade
are you in gen 9 bc i think thats when they gave it to ape
gusty burrow
I love hitting the bulky defensive steels with a 40 power move
main rapids
honest umbra
slight issue: speed
main rapids
adaptability fisheous rend power in rain
honest umbra
infernape is the fastest available fighting type
clocking in at a whopping
108 speed
vestal rivet
fighting types and fairy types kinda suck in infinite fusion
gusty burrow
FAIRY
honest umbra
yeah
vestal rivet
it was a serious problem for my draft lol
gusty burrow
What
vestal rivet
i got 0 fairy types
vestal rivet
because all the playable fairy types were taken
gusty burrow
Clefable and Sylveon are everywhere
main rapids
I did not know vacuum wave existed
you can go lucario instead of infernape for vacuum wave
honest umbra
I WANT SPEED SO I CAN CLICK OTHER MOVES
gusty burrow
you can go lucario instead of infernape for vacuum wave
At that point just use espeed
vestal rivet
Clefable and Sylveon are everywhere
i could have been more clear but you are missing what im saying
clefable and sylveon are good
rapid glade
infernape is the fastest available fighting type
legalize nuclear bombs (meloetta pirouette without transforming like frog might do)
vestal rivet
but what do they do
honest umbra
they either tank
gusty burrow
because all the playable fairy types were taken
Fair, there are like 3 good fairies and the rest suck
honest umbra
or have a massive special attack
vestal rivet
with high special defense
all the fairy types are like
hyper specialized
and gardevoir is terrible
because if you use it as a head then it passes psychic
which
psychic 😂
main rapids
At that point just use espeed
fighting+ghost is better coverage
honest umbra
dude I was trying to make fairy ground types because I was trying to make like the top three best offensive types
quiet salmon
wow high hp high defense so specialized what will i ever use this for
gusty burrow
fighting+ghost is better coverage
I meant for priority
honest umbra
look at the level I had to dig to do damage
if it wasnt for sheer power I'd be seething
fairy ground is a good type
vestal rivet
tbf thats pretty good lol
gusty burrow
Fairy/Ground is insanely good
honest umbra
also ground has no Special attackers
very fun
main rapids
I meant for priority
ur ghost so you dont need to counter other espeeders 
only 20 power less with stab
vestal rivet
we're also super limited on physical fairy types
gusty burrow
ur ghost so you dont need to counter other espeeders <a:bigbrain:922550626716643...
Then why are you suggesting Lucario for better Vaccuum wave?
honest umbra
I didnt even finish the set because lord knows it wont work
quiet salmon
what do you need phys fairy for
quiet salmon
just fuse one of the fairies w a high atk mon
honest umbra
yeah
main rapids
Then why are you suggesting Lucario for better Vaccuum wave?
higher special attack than infernap and has aurasphere
honest umbra
higher special attack than infernap and has aurasphere
I picked infernape for speed
gusty burrow
higher special attack than infernap and has aurasphere
Slower
quiet salmon
you said they suck not that they were limiting
main rapids
you have prio
honest umbra
how have I started an argument over me being bad at words
gusty burrow
Only use Lucario for espeed... aka get a better espeeder
gusty burrow
There's 2 at once
vestal rivet
how have I started an argument over me being bad at words
because this guy is very insufferable dw about it
but i will drop it
honest umbra
ehh
It's academic at least
I just dont get why anaconja is so insistent on being rude with it
like I respect them
gusty burrow
They weren't?
honest umbra
"aura sphere is awful"
"wow high hp high defense so specialized what will I ever use this for"
gusty burrow
...that's not disrespectful?
honest umbra
he's sarcastic as fuck
gusty burrow
Literally one sarcastic line
main rapids
they're pretty consitently "like that" just ignoring them at this point
does vacuum wave get iron fist
honest umbra
no
vestal rivet
does not, no
honest umbra
why would it
main rapids
vestal rivet
i dont mind ppl asking
honest umbra
for certain cases
vestal rivet
i am just a "teach a person how to fish while giving them a fish" kinda person
comes with being a tutor
main rapids
plasma fists is like the only one ingame
honest umbra
far too blunt tbh
gusty burrow
But that means you have to use Electivire
vestal rivet
there are some pretty ok evire fusions tbh
nothing fantastic within the current meta
main rapids
honestly the only ironfist move worth it is focus punch
vestal rivet
.
gusty burrow
None in IF ou
main rapids
brings it up to 270 with stab
honest umbra
true
vestal rivet
- access to prio
main rapids
or encore
gusty burrow
Don't use Vaccuum wave for priority without something to boost it
vestal rivet
its mach punch for priority
not vacuum wave
wrt evire + infernape
unless u just meant as a general point
gusty burrow
Still applies, 40bp is very low
honest umbra
i mean for fast sashers it's a good utility
honest umbra
at bare minimum
main rapids
Don't use Vaccuum wave for priority without something to boost it
one of the best mons in ou does this tho
honest umbra
anyway I hate flying ground types how can you tell
honest umbra
I miss icicle crash
gusty burrow
one of the best mons in ou does this tho
Valiant doesn't run Vaccuum wave very often
vestal rivet
oh
main rapids
the bear
vestal rivet
i was struggling to figure out what pokemon they meant
oh
bear
bear is no longer with us
but yes
bear did use vacuum wave
honest umbra
i love how it's just bear
gusty burrow
252+ Atk Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Honchkrow: 66-78 (20.5 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Against Hydreigon/Yanmega
Bear had scrappy
main rapids
Bear had scrappy
and 130+ spec
vestal rivet
anyways prio is just like nice to have its not like u normally click it to kill everything
espeed is just like
fucked
we should not compare things to espeed
honest umbra
was making a guts with raticate and then processed that flying normal is terrible
main rapids
ur clicking it to kill scarfers that are trying to revenge
like whatsies
porygon noivern
honest umbra
noivern is pain
vestal rivet
😂
main rapids
yea but dies to any se prio
vestal rivet
mhm
gusty burrow
252+ Atk Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 146-174 (46.9 - 55.9%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO
gusty burrow
Thats not very good
vestal rivet
i mean the point is more that it makes these pokemon easier to hit
also
like
what would u run in the 4th slot
gusty burrow
Your revenge killer doesnt revenge kill
honest umbra
your*
main rapids
252+ Atk Infernape Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 146-174 (46.9 - 55.9%)...
can u run what this with vacuum wave would be
gusty burrow
yeah noticed that right as I posted
main rapids
default and at +2
gusty burrow
With which mon?
honest umbra
Luxjask (Luxray) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Fusion: Ninjask
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
before I get invested, would he do things
vestal rivet
same w technician / boosting moves
gusty burrow
252+ SpA Adaptability Porygon-Z Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Porygon-Z: 232-276 (74.5 - 88.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
honest umbra
why
gusty burrow
Still doesnt even ko
main rapids
at +2 it does tho right?
gusty burrow
+2 yes it would
vestal rivet
fwiw
honest umbra
i mean
vestal rivet
for +2
honest umbra
wild charge is function
vestal rivet
wild charge is obscenely ass
main rapids
you can just multiply the damage by 2
mental boom
gusty burrow
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 293-345 (94.2 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
gusty burrow
Please ban Huge Power
gusty burrow
Exactly
vestal rivet
and why it is limited to pokemon that dont get stab on it (normally)
sadly we live in a society
gusty burrow
Same with Boomburst
vestal rivet
well
boomburst is not limited to pokemon that dont get stab on it
they do a good job of keeping pokemon that learn it slim though
gusty burrow
Espeed is also decent on Sylveon/Lucario, Fairy/Steel
honest umbra
thank
vestal rivet
🫡
honest umbra
Espeed is also decent on Sylveon/Lucario, Fairy/Steel
ah yes
espeed on a non physical attacker
not as much of a menace tbh
gusty burrow
95 base attack is enough when you can set up an SD fairly easily
vestal rivet
sylv luke have decent physical attack
gusty burrow
its a sweeper, not a wallbreaker
vestal rivet
yea the point is more
that u can set up easier cause its got
the goat typing
lol
vestal rivet
mhmm