showdown-general

[obtuse shoal]

when talking about doublade I've heard of pyuku or quag, those make more sense for a bulky unaware

and if clef isn't going magic guard, then she's susceptible to all the hazards, the best you can do is fuse her with a steel type so it takes less hazard damage

less toxic, less sandstorm, less stealth rocks

well clefblade can go steel fairy, but the stats take a dip

[radiant rivet]

I do like slowblade the most out of all the waterblades

[odd kiln]

then just remove the hazards first

[radiant rivet]

any decent hazard stack team will prevent spinning and either punish the free turns of defog or simply win the PP war against it

[obtuse shoal]

thing with doublade is the the spdef. A lot of quiver dancers threaten it regardless

[obtuse shoal]

it doesn't want to face hymega

[hexed umbra]

You aren't using Doublade as a spdef wall though

[obtuse shoal]

Feels like it gets kind of niche from there though.
It doesn't have wisp so a lot of physical mons with other boosting methods can overpower it, like feraligatr or scizor

And it doesn't do much if a normal type like ursanite is setting up

not that it's a bad pokemon, even with sheer force it will still take a lot to ko

[jagged herald]

New pokemon?

I think so

[narrow crypt]

cool

[obtuse shoal]

Are there any megas worth using in natdex

[obtuse shoal]

Btw I think I know a good Pokémon that would be used in this meta
Sigilyph

Fire types aren't that good here because they're weak to both rocks and earthquake

But with sigilyph both weaknesses are taken care of!

[hexed umbra]

Alakazam outclasses it as a psychic type with Magic Guard

[obtuse shoal]

1, zam is banned in natdex and 2, zam is vulnerable to webs but sigil is not

[obtuse shoal]

the idea is for it to be a flying type with magic guard, not a psychic type

[hexed umbra]

Didn't realise Zam was still banned in natdex, mb

[obtuse shoal]

I find it funny how reun has magic guard and regenerator, and he's still not that used

[radiant rivet]

lovely psychic type

[obtuse shoal]

man flying as a defensive type is so damn op

Immune to spikes and web, immune to earthquake and earthpower which counters steel and poison dark and electrics
weak only to ice electric and rock

resistant to uturn

but yeah poor psychic, it just makes everything worse

[obtuse shoal]

but yeah sigilyph would essentialy be a second clefable

[radiant rivet]

flying is an enhancer type, types that are already great benefit greatly from it, while types that are subpaar do not get much out of it. Water/flying Ground/flying Fairy/Flying are some of the best types in the game meanwhile bug/flying ice/flying and psychic/flying are some of the worst

[obtuse shoal]

I rarely see water flying and fairy flying

[radiant rivet]

fairy flying is rare but water grround is supreme

able to switch into ground moves for free and threaten ground types out immediatly

also only two weaknesses

we are lucky gyrados has no flying stab

[obtuse shoal]

i don't think it would change too much honestly. While flying can be good, it gets stopped by steel

the only mon that really takes advantage of the flying attacks is hymega

but more importantly, it's roost. Basically every flying type having access to recovery is crazy

the benefits are suffering nothing from spikes, webs or ground, and you get recovery, but you take more from rocks

[obtuse shoal]

you mean water flying?

[radiant rivet]

oh yeah

[obtuse shoal]

and yes, it looks pretty underrated

it's double weak to electric and freeze dry but those are rare, and you get a lot of benefits

[radiant rivet]

the thing is water is resisted by grass water and dragon. With flying Stab you hit dragons and water neutral while grass types cannot switch in on you

plus you get the benefits of flying and waters short list of weaknesses

[obtuse shoal]

I feel like grass pokemon are more afraid of toxic here, than of flying types

[radiant rivet]

in here yes, because we dont good brave bird users

[obtuse shoal]

even if we did they'd just get burned by moltres

[radiant rivet]

unless their guts

or poison heal

swellow when?

[obtuse shoal]

I think we can totally have gliscor with brave bird, if you're brave enough

you still get walled by levitating steels

[radiant rivet]

well yeah, but the good dual flying types allow it to get past that resistance

there is a reason hawlucha was so terryfing

[obtuse shoal]

it's still in the game

and it's uu

[radiant rivet]

well yes Hawlucha in the fusion metagame is subpaar, in the regular metagame it had its show of excellence

but this fusion meta game is optimized beyond believe

being "good" does not cut it here. All of the staple fusions would be centralizing at worst if allowed in regular play

[obtuse shoal]

My fastest game
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=illusion911-imightexist14-1739040266024

[odd thorn]

guts + STAB facade

I NEED it

[obtuse shoal]

you have it

with ursaring

and with dragonite you have powerful extremespeeds too

[odd thorn]

fair enough I guess

swellow is just my favorite guts mon

[obtuse shoal]

I can agree

I used to hate it and thought it was an inferior staraptor

[odd thorn]

it can also be built for scrappy boomburst

[obtuse shoal]

boomburst is banned now though

[odd thorn]

alas

they have disarmed my boy

[obtuse shoal]

even if swellow was here the normal type wouldn't be shared

I think the current meta really punishes physical pokemon

but with no blissey quiver dancers have free reign

and also nidoking

[hexed umbra]

It would be interesting to see some of the pokemon bans only apply to fusions, ie Blissey and Chansey being legal if unfused

[obtuse shoal]

honestly I'm not even sure if blissey could handle some of the quiver dancers here

[hexed umbra]

Blissey watching as Hymega restores 200% of its hp after using Oblivion Wing

[obtuse shoal]

yeah, you want an answer? You might go sylveon

and even then it doesn't garantee everything

interesting thing, since the best user of glare is ekans, bolt electric types and ground types can't be paralysed

[obtuse shoal]

shell smash is banned... from ubers?

[hexed umbra]

Its still an incredibly powerful setup move, nothing changes in that regard between OU and ubers

[obtuse shoal]

Now I'm wondering what ran through Ubers so hard shell smash had to be banned

Because I'm not imagining togekiss

Somehow togekiss can learn shell smash in this game and I think it's insane

Just had a fight where the other guy had destiny bond. I then fell back and he recovered

[hexed umbra]

Do you want to fight shell Smash Kyogre?

[obtuse shoal]

Well if it's banned it's banned.
Time for quiver dance kyogre

[obtuse shoal]

Btw what's a good rain abuser in Ubers

[frank valve]

What is the difference between OU and Ubers?

[lost galleon]

Imprison trapping, wonder guarders with one weakness, and imposter bullshit everywhere

Also you're allowed to have Chlorophyll/Swift Swim with the weather setting ability on the same team

Also Slaking, Regigigas, Chansey/Blissey, and Boomburst are street legal

So have fun trying to deal with all that garbage

[frank valve]

Does not sound fun, I think I’ll try OU instead

Any tip to get started?

To add to what Spaghetto was saying

[lost galleon]

You're going to get your ass kicked a lot, also anything that stops being useful if it gets burned is bad, and regenerator, magic guard, and unaware are everywhere

[obtuse shoal]

My regigigas gliscor not taking that imposter

[obtuse shoal]

imprison however...

[radiant rivet]

Here are some usage stats.

({'Jirachi + Tangrowth': 682, 'Alakazam + Electrode': 674, 'Toxapex + Tyranitar': 368, 'Sylveon + Dragonite': 367, 'Togekiss + Nidoking': 354, 'Registeel + Moltres': 332, 'Snorlax + Gliscor': 308, 'Hydreigon + Yanmega': 259, 'Rhyperior + Gliscor': 239, 'Entei + Meloetta-Pirouette': 228, 'Dragonite + Ursaring': 224, 'Ursaring + Dragonite': 217, 'Slowbro + Donphan': 214, 'Clefable + Dusclops': 209, 'Tyranitar + Celebi': 208, 'Milotic + Steelix': 206, 'Porygon-Z + Blastoise': 205, 'Clefable + Mew': 204, 'Clefable + Celebi': 192, 'Metagross + Dhelmise': 188, 'Sandslash + Haxorus': 185, 'Politoed + Celebi': 181, 'Clefable + Doublade': 180, 'Sylveon + Forretress': 167, 'Lycanroc-Midnight + Meloetta-Pirouette': 156, 'Chandelure + Porygon-Z': 152, 'Gengar + Nidoking': 149, 'Jirachi + Toxapex': 146, 'Toxapex + Donphan': 140, 'Politoed + Jolteon': 137, 'Tyranitar + Scyther': 137, 'Umbreon + Torkoal': 136, 'Slowking + Donphan': 134, 'Dhelmise + Scizor': 133, 'Goodra + Shuckle': 131, 'Tyranitar + Toxapex': 129, 'Jirachi + Entei': 129, 'Snorlax + Dragonite': 127, 'Azumarill + Garchomp': 123, 'Necrozma + Regirock': 123, 'Breloom + Lycanroc': 122, 'Lurantis + Meloetta-Pirouette': 119, 'Sylveon + Lucario': 115, 'Metagross + Breloom': 115, 'Rhydon + Xatu': 113, 'Lycanroc + Gallade': 112, 'Gengar + Greninja': 111, 'Cresselia + Aegislash': 110, 'Farfetch’d + Meloetta-Pirouette': 110, 'Pyukumuku + Dusclops': 106, 'Politoed + Dragonite': 105, 'Gengar + Porygon-Z': 104, 'Kangaskhan + Dragonite': 101, 'Clefable + Registeel': 99, 'Chandelure + Celebi': 99, 'Noivern + Nidoking': 99, 'Talonflame + Aerodactyl': 98, 'Haxorus + Scizor': 96, 'Clefable + Umbreon': 94, 'Goodra + Bastiodon': 93, 'Chandelure + Nidoking': 91, 'Politoed + Magnezone': 90, 'Chandelure + Jolteon': 89, 'Toxapex + Golisopod': 89, 'Gliscor + Toxapex': 88, 'Registeel + Xatu': 88,

[obtuse shoal]

where did you get those?

and I'm guessing a higher number means more usage

[radiant rivet]

magic.

[frank valve]

Thanks man

[obtuse shoal]

jirachi tangrowth and alakazam electrode are really high

[radiant rivet]

No but for real I once asked Yoshi about in on the pokeathlon dc server and he posted them

they are like 4 months old tho

[obtuse shoal]

yeah makes sense

I feel like it's pretty different from what it is right now

no golisopod here

for example for politoed, there's politoed celebi, jolteon, dragonite and magnezone

2 of them don't have recovery

for tar, there's pex, celebi and scyther

which makes sense

and for sandslash, there's only haxorus

[lost galleon]

Oh yeah, also V-Create Entei is legal in Ubers, so you have to deal with contrary Lurantis/Entei that has basically perfect coverage and gets faster and tougher every time it spams its 180 base power STAB move

Tbh I’m shocked that V-Create didn’t get banned from OU sooner because this might have been the most insane thing it did but it was not the first time it caused problems

Even I could get wins with a V-Create sun team, and I’m garbage

[obtuse shoal]

oh yeah absolutely

Any time I tried to go defense I just couldn't defend against it

I even went rain specifically for entei

[radiant rivet]

back then I used MeloP/Entei with flash fire to immediatly punish any V-Create atempts.

It worked quite well tbh

[obtuse shoal]

and then people started using haxorus

[radiant rivet]

no that came before

First was Entei Klinklang then Entei Hax, Then Entei Jirachi, then Entei melo, then Entei lurantis and finally back to entei melo

[obtuse shoal]

thing is, entei still had some coverage for that

[obtuse shoal]

oh wow I'm in the top 20 in the dex ou ladder

by bullying noobs, mostly

[obtuse shoal]

man ttar scyther is so bulky in spdef

it eats nidoking ice beams and alaode thunderbolts like crazy

[obtuse shoal]

And I just got decimated by mew clefable

quiver dance with magic guard is such a strong combo

[obtuse shoal]

this was a hard fought match
He had magic bounce diancie, so you can't phase it
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=imightexist14-illusion911-1739124059705

[radiant rivet]

the most common lurantei set of the time was leaf blade, V-create, Knock and Superpower.

With a Scarf equiped pretty much 3/4 times the opposing Entei would be forced to eat a V-create it had no hope of surviving

[radiant rivet]

good for you mate, lets hope you can keep it

[proper nest]

Is there a IF LC format?

[radiant rivet]

sadly no

Genetic experimentation is not legal on minors

It is on gods tho

[obtuse shoal]

what pokemon in ubrers do you think seem really powerful, but they're probably not that good in ou

[radiant rivet]

not one

maybe the triple fusions

[obtuse shoal]

like genesect came in and looked scary

but I barely see it

[strange furnace]

hello

i have like

no idea if this is what its for

but if anyone knows how to add custom mons into showdown please lmk

[obtuse shoal]

like fusions?

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=illusion911-jonasrhee1208-1739150610090
This is my fight with anakin skywalker

I call him anakin because he hates sand

[strange furnace]

i guess.. but i mean like actual new custom pokemon i made

[obtuse shoal]

Oh, then you should check the poa discord server

[strange furnace]

..?

[sleek raft]

Wheres the showdown link so I can export team?

[tiny wadi]

LF G9 NatDex Doubles OU

[thick spoke]

Does anybody know if its possible to do custom double battles in infinite fusion on showdown?

[obtuse shoal]

I wonder what the best dual types are

[manic trail]

anyone wanna play randbat

[obtuse shoal]

Ok, gliscor golisopod got his new sprite, sweet

[obtuse shoal]

alright, I can tank nightmare easily now
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=nightmare17354-illusion911-1739655529234

observations:

• Registres is really fast for a pivot, but with roar I can get myself some advantageous positions
• I can hard switch my aegicleff into his quiver dance mew
• whimsicott can be very annoying, hard to imagine it's like RU tier

[odd kiln]

annoying does not mean good

[obtuse shoal]

I found one thing gliscor is surprisingly good at
Priority

Specifically priority attacks

Most of them are physical and make contact, so moltres is pretty good at scaring them

But gliscor isn't afraid

Btw how does if dex Ubers work

[obtuse shoal]

It seems interesting but I think a lot of mons that are Ubers aren't that good

Something like Dialga and palkia are used more because of their stats

While it's more normal mons that are interesting

[radiant rivet]

moltres does not scare Ursanite.

[hexed umbra]

It can u-turn on it though

[odd kiln]

it can pressure it with hurricane

[radiant rivet]

Regitres is a good defensive pivot into an Ursanite but it does not force ursanite out

[obtuse shoal]

ursanite is why I went sand

Yeah regitres cannot force it out, but ursanite doesn't want to do repeated hits while it's being chipped by burn and sand

ubers is... interesting

a lot of mons here just have high base stats, mons in ou have way better movepool and utility and typing

look at dialga, it has high spatk but with a good defensive typing, so it isn't doing much

[obtuse shoal]

but it's got no recovery, no uturn

so it's just a well rounded registeel

[radiant rivet]

you are comparing a wall.with a tank

dialga is meant to take a hit then hit back harder.
since its Spa isnt excactly low, and draco isnt exactly weak.

[obtuse shoal]

I don't think 150 spatk draco is gonna hit that hard here

not that there aren't good pokemon around here. Lugia looks delicious

got no uturn though

[radiant rivet]

are you sure about that?

[obtuse shoal]

yeah, because blissey exists

with eviolite

[radiant rivet]

yes the best special wall in existence can indeed take the special attack.
But not every team has a blissey not to mention that blissey isnt immovable

after all whats stopping dialga from combining with say darkrai and taunting the blissey when it comes in?

not to mention that blissey has been nerfed heavily since it no longer has access to seismic toss.

[obtuse shoal]

bruh

[radiant rivet]

it may not seem like a nerf but it is

it makes it far more passive and vulnerable to substitute

[obtuse shoal]

yeah I noticed substitute is pretty good in ubers

[obtuse shoal]

scyther has eviolite, uturn roost and knock off

and pretty good stats for all of it too

amazing how it's in ru

[obtuse shoal]

shoutout to cat for having a good team
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=illusion911-catshitbride-1739714243181

[obtuse shoal]

it seems ubers is dominated by kyogre

[radiant rivet]

kinda always has been?

until primal groudon came around.
then there was the horse
and now its up for debate

[obtuse shoal]

shoutout to this little one

[radiant rivet]

this thing has one job.

to kill

[delicate gull]

We need to have a big IF Dex ubers tier

[odd thorn]

I feel like, if there were to be a full tier list for all fusions, it would have to be structured based on hard rules

ie, not like smogon tiers, but like... Little Cup type stuff

[obtuse shoal]

The best we have is a Pokémon tier list, but that tells you little

Ursaring is good, but only with Dragonite
And something like salamence can be useless in some ways and amazing in others

Honestly I think a good one would be Pokémon+ability

For example, registeel isn't that good, but if you're using xatu or moltres the fusion becomes monstrous

[radiant rivet]

arent there like way to many fusion to even attempt to list them?

just by giving each OU mon 3 fusions we end up with 120 fusions to rank.
Thats a lot
40 pkmn just in OU also isnt a small number

even current gen 9 ou has fewer mons (even if only by a little)

[odd thorn]

I feel like it's an incredibly complicated issue- stats, movesets, and abilities all have to be considered in accordance with each other. It's generally not feasible, you'd end up looking at a system that still relies on honor system sometimes (WOTC just released a new system for power scaling commander decks in Magic, and the only way they were able to do it was by embracing that holes were going to exist)

like the only system that comes to mind is a point system where each tier is a new threshold of points, but you'd have to layout the framework for a LOT of points.

Like maybe you get a point for each 10 BST over a certain value, and another point for each combo you have access to (being able to have both Solar Power and Solar Beam, for example)

(this is all just theory, of course, I don't think this system would reliably work)

[obtuse shoal]

Thing is, look at sandslash for example.
It's got bad stats

But it's got thousand arrows and sand rush

[odd thorn]

I mean you can count individual moves as points, if need be

abilities, too

sand rush is inherently strong, because (iirc) it's the only weather speed ability that isn't banned

thousand arrows is... thousand arrows

[obtuse shoal]

Meanwhile necrozma and genesect struggle here

And tinted lens yanmega can get pretty crazy

[radiant rivet]

necrozma is outclassed by mew

it has its niche as a weakness poly mon. Since Prism armor with it bulk means it can tank many supereffektive hits, while Photon means the policy boost doesnt thud into a unaware

[icy pilot]

any good UU sweepers?

as in IF Dex

[valid grotto]

are there any metronome players alive

[radiant rivet]

zoroak yanmega.

metagross/dhelmise

Arcanine Snorlax

[vernal epoch]

guys rattata is the best pokemon

[odd thorn]

ok

[vernal epoch]

wait tp be fr though

is

a venusaur + a sliggoo good

[odd kiln]

no

[obtuse shoal]

I wonder if leech seed can help gliscor

Sub seed gliscor. Would it be effective?

[radiant rivet]

leech seed main issue is its low pp and how prevelant switch is.

Leech does infact cancel poison heal recovery

[obtuse shoal]

I'm thinking of gliscor with leech seed

With poison heal and then seed and then it spams sub

[radiant rivet]

what if the opponent keeps switching?

what are the other two moves?

One has to be a boosting move, whilst the other needs to be something that hits most of the tier pretty hard.

Also which mon would you fuse gliscor with?

[lost galleon]

The problem is all the regenerator around. They really can just switch around leech seed forever with no consequences

[obtuse shoal]

Actually you're right

Leech seed stopped being useful when all the regenerators and poison heals came around

[obtuse shoal]

I really like Alakazode

I can come in, volt switch, switch to pivot to take the hit, and then slow pivot back

[radiant rivet]

it is one of the most common fusions in the tier for a good reason

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah. But I didn't realize at first how broken it is to do your damage with one Mon and receive it with another

Alakazam is perfect for it too. It's super fast, hits hard and is not afraid of stealth rocks

[lost galleon]

Alakazam in general is kind of nuts. High speed, high special attack, and magic guard are extremely valuable attributes.

Stick a sash or a life orb on it and you’ve got a monster

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah electrode just gives it pivoting and supreme coverage with mind blown

[radiant rivet]

too bad pursuit exist in this game still

[blissful flume]

what’s the earliest way to get dawn stone?

[weary burrow]

Does nasty plot or amnesia boost aegislash more if used before switching to blade form

[snow cairn]

I think nasty plot

[dull plaza]

Switching forms doesn’t switch boosts so Nasty Plot

[hexed umbra]

#playthrough-talk

[green jolt]

wait.. u can battle other people online with fusion pokemons?

[odd thorn]

yes, though it's completely seperate from the game

[green jolt]

oh okay

[odd thorn]

you can copy your party and put it into pvp if you really want

[green jolt]

there is an easy way to copy the team or is it manual?

[odd thorn]

it's easy

you talk to an NPC that exists on the second floor of (most) pokemon centers to export your current party as a string of text

You out that string of text in showdown

(this is also an easy way to check your in game party's EVs and IVs)

[radiant rivet]

Would Volcarona really be broken in Ou?

[lethal lynx]

when does pichu evolve

[radiant rivet]

isnt it a friendship thing?

[odd thorn]

friendship evos don't exist in PIF, but this isn't really the place to ask

[hot anvil]

yo

how do i fix - black screen

[gritty anvil]

You're looking for #tech-support . This is the channel for discussing the online battling simulator.

[tiny wadi]

Azumachomp (Azumarill) @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Fusion: Garchomp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Earthquake
• Dragon Dance
• Liquidation
• Stone Edge

My first time trying this. This shouldn’t exist. I feel like I’m a scientist in a movie playing god

[tiny wadi]

Oh wait it’s banned, thank Christ

[hexed umbra]

Fun fact, originally Azumarill was banned instead of huge power, but it turned out that Azurill was too powerful so it was changed to a huge power ban

Azurill, not Marill

[chrome kiln]

this was screaming balanced trust

[tiny wadi]

True!

[umbral totem]

I never played showdown

What am i supposed to do

[sand tiger]

have fun!

[umbral totem]

Sure did

[obtuse shoal]

Well you take out the bug weakness and you remain with the fire and the fiery dance

It's also got roost

Personally I think it should be suspected

[obtuse shoal]

Burn or be burned

[obtuse shoal]

I use a registeel moltres fusion with flame body specifically to burn folks

It also means better players don't use mons vulnerable to burns

[umbral totem]

I think your reply is too late

[obtuse shoal]

Some of us sleep and work

[umbral totem]

Yeah, i understand that

I have a tiny problem tho

I can't build my own team

[obtuse shoal]

Also weather is infinite

[obtuse shoal]

Understandable, building teams is hard

[umbral totem]

Not that i meant like it wont allow me to build my own team

[obtuse shoal]

What's the issue

[umbral totem]

I think its like when i press team builder, it said it cant access something in my laptop

And said "turn off privacy settings"

[obtuse shoal]

I think it uses local storage to store your teams in your browser

[umbral totem]

Oh

Maybe bcs i download the app

Can that be it?

[obtuse shoal]

Where are you doing the teams? Are you using the pokeathlon website?

[umbral totem]

No

[obtuse shoal]

Check the pins

[umbral totem]

Oh ok

Ill do it after i get back

But does it take from my actual game save?

[obtuse shoal]

There's an option for it, theres an NPC in the poke center on the second floor that helps you with that

[umbral totem]

Oh.. Right

Ill try tweakin some stuff

[obtuse shoal]

But yeah, volcarona

Since you're using the its body for the fire type you're getting a downgrade on the stats

The question is more on fiery dance and quiver dance

[radiant rivet]

Maybe you could make a funtional head fusion?

[obtuse shoal]

With volcarona's bug typing?

[radiant rivet]

or you could run the body with a flame body set

sure, like a bug water dual stab

But would it be broken?

on the same level as contrary V-create

[obtuse shoal]

Lolno

[radiant rivet]

So why is volc bannend?

[obtuse shoal]

Easy to toxic, and takes rocks damage

[obtuse shoal]

It came in banned by default

[radiant rivet]

So was shuckle

and Aegisslash

as well as smeargle

none broke the meta

It be interested in a volc suspect test

[obtuse shoal]

The most op thing will be volcarona togekiss

Quiver dance, roost, flinch, fiery dance being torch song

[radiant rivet]

wouldnt that get walled by unaware and revenge killed by Ursanite?

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah

But so is yanmega in theory

[radiant rivet]

It be annoying sure, and something you could lose in the builder to. But it seems inconsistent

[radiant rivet]

Yanmega really isnt a problem

it punishes pasivity

[obtuse shoal]

There's also nidoking, but the typings don't fit

It'll either be bug ground or poison fire

[radiant rivet]

nido is the boring answer

like it hard to find a mon that wouldnt enjoy fusing with nido

' a special attacker'

[obtuse shoal]

Actually I just realised the best fusion for it
Magnezone

Mag gives it magnet pull while volc gives it quiver dance, stab fire dance and recovery

And with mag it's fire steel or bug electric
And if it wants bug steel it can go probopass

And I mean
Check these stats

[radiant rivet]

I mean yeah fire electric mag does sound good. Although I have to wonder how well it will do?

would

[obtuse shoal]

Thing is, it just needs to kill steels

We had other options yes, but none of them had quiver dance with recovery and a good offensive typing

[obtuse shoal]

Nah this thing is gonna change the game
It's not like golisopod who was just an improvement for gliscor

[obtuse shoal]

But not in a bad way. The meta will go more diverse from the over centralising steel focused game it is now.
With steels just uturning out of mag

[radiant rivet]

the fact that so many of the best steels use uturn makes trapping for set up kinda pointless.
Since if you QD when they Uturn they will just pivot into they set up stopper of choice.
As such you want your trapper to OHKO the steels in which case Magmortar/Magnezone just seems better?

[obtuse shoal]

or you just scarf it and fiery dance

[radiant rivet]

isnt fiery dance kinda weak turn 1?

[obtuse shoal]

yeah

[radiant rivet]

so they survive and Uturn outta there

In which case Mag/Volc just becomes another boosting sweeper

that cant make it past unaware or spectral thief

[obtuse shoal]

it might be good to do a suspect then

[hot anvil]

hi

[radiant rivet]

whats up

[cyan latch]

jumpscare

[burnt gate]

Hey guys how do I find the format for showdown?

To export my team to?

[kind thunder]

@obtuse shoal hello I am guy from the stunfisk post

[radiant rivet]

Saw the post, tour looked fun, sadly couldnt make it

[obtuse shoal]

yo

[kind thunder]

I want to chall a few experienced players in the tier

I think my teams can hang but I’d love to see if I get stomped by a tech I didn’t even know about

[opaque inlet]

I’m down just at me whenever

[radiant rivet]

wouldnt call myself good but I`d be down for some matches

[kind thunder]

Ok back from the gym what are your guys usernames? @opaque inlet @radiant rivet

[radiant rivet]

sutvc

[opaque inlet]

I’m vc bubdub

[radiant rivet]

what is yours?

[kind thunder]

Volcanionisgrand sent challenge to mortify

[kind thunder]

Ggs guys

Sylvnite was even stronger than I thought 2koing dusclops clef without even needing a knock is insane

[radiant rivet]

it was banded wasnt it?

[radiant rivet]

gg

[kind thunder]

Yes

[radiant rivet]

banded double edge is the only way it can 2hit ko clefclops

[kind thunder]

Is mzam electrode actually good? Doesn’t it get ohkod by pextar suit?

I saw it on every team I faced but one

[radiant rivet]

it does, but magic guard mind blown is a drug

also its a fast volt user

[kind thunder]

Bruh was doing 8% to slowdreigon

[radiant rivet]

yes the quad resist

[kind thunder]

I feel like he’s completely owned by any regenvester which literally every team has

[radiant rivet]

the most common regenvester is jiragrowth

[kind thunder]

That team you had with sand zam was fire though

Burn + rocks+ sand damage to whittle down regenvesters

Made it an actual threat

[radiant rivet]

oh the main threat were the sandslash and the nido

i have to ask

why arcanine gliscor?

[kind thunder]

I was scared of sylveon dnite and it walls it

Also fire ground grass fairy and water dragon is goated defensive core

[radiant rivet]

syvleon dnite is very uncommen

[kind thunder]

Only broke down to nidokiss when gross got burned

[kind thunder]

That… bruh

[radiant rivet]

you have to run banded otherwise Clefclops hard walls you, regitres can also ruin your day and you have to compete with ursanite

not to mention how much scald there is

[kind thunder]

Magnezone is actually good in this meta though

Also you literally want banded anyway

[radiant rivet]

mag is weird

it has good matchups into sand and defensive teams but can be left behind in terms of speed and power

[kind thunder]

Not really

Bcuz sylvinite with no steels makes up for it 10 fold

[radiant rivet]

i was talking bout mag in a vacuum

[odd thorn]

the humble trick room:

[radiant rivet]

I dont remember the last time I faced trick room tbh

[kind thunder]

Mag never exists in a vacuum

He enables something or else you don’t use mpull

[radiant rivet]

the core of sylvnite and mag is a good one, not denying that. But it isnt common

as the most common steels tend to have pivot moves meaning trapping them can be quite difficult

[odd thorn]

something something scizor STAB Technician U-Turn

never again will I try to lead with a grass mon

[radiant rivet]

uturn isnt technican boosted

cause its 70 bp and only moves up to 60 bp are boosted

[odd thorn]

huh, I could've sworn it was 60

oh, I'm thinking bug bite

[radiant rivet]

that makes sense

[obtuse shoal]

doesn't syl have to deal with steel types?

oh you trap them with mag

[obtuse shoal]

I wonder, so far I've only seen more offensive gliscors, like with swords dance or just damage

what would a stall focused gliscor be like

[radiant rivet]

knock, roost uturn and hazards of choicd

[odd thorn]

definitely taking advantage of poison heal

maybe taking advantage of other passive restoration, to pad poison heal so it doesn't need to spend turns on roost? Something like Ingrain or Leech Seed?

Celebi / Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Knock, Roost, Leech Seed, Toxic

maybe not ideal but it's the first line of thought I had

hmm... on second look, it's Psychic / Flying... weak to dark, rock, and ice among others

[obtuse shoal]

I like leech seed, maybe protect somewhere?

[odd thorn]

could probably swap it in over toxic

leech seed will be doing some damage, and knock can be used pretty frequently with leech seed's uptime and the passive health gain from leech seed + poison heal

[obtuse shoal]

there's also issues like grass types

what do you do against tangrowth?

[thorn ice]

who wants to fight me with my new IF OU team

[odd kiln]

way too passive, gliscor wants uturn

theres no reason to use seed bc ph + roost should be more than enough recovery

[obtuse shoal]

gliscor wants uturn?

[odd kiln]

besides setup sets yes

[obtuse shoal]

I've used him for priority because most priority users aren't keen on getting burned and it felt right

[odd kiln]

sounds bad

[obtuse shoal]

it was just golisopod's aqua jet

But I do feel like I haven't used him all that well

[obtuse shoal]

so either swords dance or uturn

[odd kiln]

yes

[obtuse shoal]

Reminds me of my tyranitar scyther set with roost uturn knock off and stealth rock

[odd kiln]

cringe!

[obtuse shoal]

The issue is that thanks to eviolite tyranitar scyther is much easier to switch in

[odd kiln]

when hymega can freely sub qd

[obtuse shoal]

Should I have something else do rocks?

[odd kiln]

idk your team but maybe

[odd kiln]

what

[placid hornet]

I am... always on duty!

Ping a mod or sm next time, that was prolly a bot

[odd kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/reimu-cirno-fumo-gif-11436748445985532229

[obtuse shoal]

I think mons like slowphan and regigrowth are really interesting to me because they have 4x weakness but in reality they're unbelievably hard to take down

[odd thorn]

water / ground my beloved

In the mainline, Quagsire with Unaware was an absolute menace until it got banned in smogon's SM UU

A setup water/ground with unaware could only effectively be taken down by a crit breaker, which wasn't a common sight since it requires both the ability and item slots to work properly

there's only so much a x4 grass weakness can do when a lot of teams didn't have any grass stab or if they gave the opponent time to build up defensive stages

[obtuse shoal]

I guess that can be taken down with toxic, tangrowth on the other hand

I have no idea how to deal with it

[odd thorn]

I'm gonna be honest I completely forgot about toxic when I wrote that

[obtuse shoal]

unfortunately for me I burned that thing first, so I couldn't toxic it later

[hexed umbra]

The SM UU Quagsire ban is so funny because it was purely because stall was too powerful in UU, Quagsire was PU/NU(?) before the ban

[kind thunder]

@obtuse shoal can u play rn infinite fusion?

[obtuse shoal]

yeah

[obtuse shoal]

alright, good games

nice to see someone using steel trapping successfully

scarf eruption with entei is especially crazy

[kind thunder]

Good games yeah

Yeah I definitely think sylvnite is the best Pokémon of the format

[obtuse shoal]

personally I see it as your whole team being good

I can easily deal with sylvnite without magnezone

and I can deal with magnezone, but for that I need to deal with slowphan too

and I could deal with all that, if you didn't have umbrepex

[kind thunder]

lol thanks

[obtuse shoal]

I like what you did with ferrothorn

Salamence may look offensive but it's pretty defensive

and you add leech seed to that

[kind thunder]

Mence has the best stats of any intimidators and can easily use steel flying

[opaque inlet]

It’s not bad it’s just definitely outclassed buy ursanite

[hexed umbra]

It can threaten unique pokemon with pixilate espeed, and fairy/flying makes it better defensively. Ursanite is better overall though

It can actually run roost

[obtuse shoal]

He runs a sylvmag combo though,
A banded sylv with a scarfed mag entei

You can't switch in a steel, you have to use a fire...

[hot anvil]

o

yo

[hexed umbra]

Ah, missed the pokepaste

[urban nebula]

Is Spiridinja Broken?

Idk what's the best moves for the bug ghost guy

[radiant rivet]

it is broken.
but Shedinja is bannend to Ubers.

[urban nebula]

I see

Any move recommendations?

[radiant rivet]

maybe a combo of endeavor/painsplit and shadowsneak?

[urban nebula]

Thanks

I'll consider it

[opal juniper]

Doesnt NatDex Slowphan have Refresh

(thanks to Colosseum and Gale of Darkness)

[odd kiln]

no use for slowphan in nd

just use alomomola

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah but why would you use it
There's better moves

[radiant rivet]

Been wanting to try the 4 common QD mons : Mew, Celebi, Yanmega and Jynx

Particularly I have been trying to compare their most common QD fusions being : Mew/Clefable, Celebi/Chandelure, Hydreigon/Yanmega and Jynx/Galvantula (Jynx/Nidoking might be more common)

I would like to compare these in the categories of :

How easy are they to get on the field?
How easily are they walled?
How easily are they revenge killed?
How threating are they turn 1 on the field?

I would like to know others opinions on this.

Should other QD fusions be considered?
Are the Categories inadequate or should other criterias be considered as well?
Lastly where should these 4 fusions rank on each of the 4 disciplins?

[odd kiln]

wtf is jirachi galv ive never seen that

[radiant rivet]

ah sorry I meant jynx galvantula

[tepid jacinth]

i forgot what qd stands for

[hexed umbra]

Quiver Dance

[obtuse shoal]

I've got my sand team dunked on by celebi clef
Doesn't take chip damage, toxic doesn't do anything to it, it can quiver dance out of special attackers and giga drain the health back

[radiant rivet]

Wouldnt a mew/clefable have done the excact same thing?

Because to me Celebi/Clef seems wholly outclassed by Clef/Mew

[obtuse shoal]

grass is a better type than psychic though

But I guess mew has a better movepool

[radiant rivet]

Photon geyser is notable as it allows Mew/Clef to muscle past unawares, something clef/Celebi can struggle against.

[obtuse shoal]

I feel like there's not a lot of answers against scald

interesting how in my sand team one of my best answers was tyraniscyther

because of all the spdef boost

[radiant rivet]

isnt ursanite one of the best? not to mention jiragrowth

[obtuse shoal]

the issue is I'm using sand

jiragrowth is ok, but I'm worried about the spdef

so I was thinking celebi

but I'm also seeing that celebi is too fast, so I can't use it as pivot

oh wow, a lot of uturn users are pretty damn fast

ayo celebi can learn rocks?

[radiant rivet]

yes

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah I think that's pretty crazy
Other mons have to be like grounds and steels to learn it

[radiant rivet]

its a trend not a rule

wiggly tuff can put down the pointy rocks

[obtuse shoal]

Anyways I noticed my sand team has a bit of trouble with scald
What's a Mon I should use for it

[dry pine]

Does anyone want to battle

[radiant rivet]

Does a "scald answer" mean for you that said mon doesnt care about the burn at all nor the dmg?

cause most magic guard mons dont care bout the burn or sand, so maybe use your own Clef/celebi?

[odd thorn]

Dry Skin, Water Absorb, and Storm Drain are also effective abilities if your team is having trouble with Water specifically

[radiant rivet]

Entei/Flygon could be the play honestly

[obtuse shoal]

in your opinion guys, toxitar or toxumbreon?

toxitar has higher attack, but toxumbre has parting shot

[obtuse shoal]

btw, funny thing about the weather wars. Since swift swim and drizzle are banned together, a guy using a sand team can use a swift swim mon to counter rain teams

ok I'm using a pyuku with a funny set
recover, soak, gastro acid and toxic

[odd kiln]

jigrowth

[odd kiln]

toxitar

[radiant rivet]

toxitar, getting the pursuit OHKO on zam electrode without investment is invaluable

[obtuse shoal]

but also, a lot of ghost types can just burn you on switch

[radiant rivet]

yes but they are also often frail like nothing else so knock off still hurts and if you punish a switch with pursuit then thats free dmg

[obtuse shoal]

dusclops is not really that frail

[radiant rivet]

but it hates getting knocked all the same

it also loses the long game thx to regen

[odd kiln]

this is why you dont switch on fat ghosts without scouting for wisp

[obtuse shoal]

yeah fat ghosts are annoying af

[radiant rivet]

they can be if you arent carefull

but since all fat ghost here abuse the eviolite they have a massive weakness to knock of, witch means they can be forced out (Correction, Cofabreon exists)

[obtuse shoal]

knock off being so risk free is crazy

[radiant rivet]

Its irreversible progression

Dmg? can be recovered, Hazards can be removed, Status healed but if your Item is knocked off its gone for good

even PP can be recovered

[obtuse shoal]

I guess cof with mummy might be the best punish for it?

and even then

[radiant rivet]

you have 2 ways of "punishing" knock. Punish the contact nature of it. Let a pokemon take the hit that doesnt care about losing its item/cant lose its item

Cof is particularly brutal for gliscor

also it denies regen recovery it the regen loses its ability before switching out

[obtuse shoal]

rn my knocker is tyraniscyther. So that doesn't care for mummy

[radiant rivet]

granted that one gets underspeed by cofabreon so you will always get punished if you click uturn and they click parting shot

but you cut their moonlight recovery in half so you take some and lose some

[obtuse shoal]

it's got regenerator, so idk if it even needs moonlight

[radiant rivet]

cofagrigus+umbreon does not have regen

[obtuse shoal]

oh

yeah that one's kinda limited

[radiant rivet]

regen or cof?

[obtuse shoal]

cof

but it punishers gliscor!

[radiant rivet]

its a trade off

[obtuse shoal]

speaking of gliscor, is it a good pursuit user?

[radiant rivet]

no its movepool is to packed to fit it in

rocks, roost uturn knock STABs defog or even protect are all good options

[obtuse shoal]

personally I found gliscor to be good at doing what moltres stops
so priority

[radiant rivet]

really? how does it stop priority?

[obtuse shoal]

I mean moltres stops priority, I mean, it punishes it heavily

because besides vacuum wave, all forms of priority make contact, and they do not want to eat a burn
and ursanite doesn't want to fight in the sand either

[tawny wolf]

How do I have an unrestricted battle with a friend? Or are all formats going to reject a team for one reason or another

[hexed umbra]

National Dex AG for no restrictions

[obtuse shoal]

I feel like weather is underutilized in this game

Like it is good
But not enough people use it

I was expecting weather wars all the time

[radiant rivet]

Thats just bias probably.
Concrete data would be necessary

[obtuse shoal]

Btw
What's a good rain team like

How does it deal with ursanite

[radiant rivet]

Rain has different styles ofc.
HO
Balance
Stall could also be attempted.

An the common checks to ursanite like clefclops or regitres dont care/benefit from the rain

[obtuse shoal]

Regitres is so so
Can take like 48% from an ursanite facade

What about mons that take advantage from rain

[odd thorn]

I feel like the issue with rain based stall is that it can't effectively block physical

there's a few options for stall that actively takes advantage of rain- Dry Skin, Rain Dish, Hydration + Rest- but the only mon who comes to mind that can really take advantage of any of those is Goodra, who's very much a special wall

I guess rain dish Blastoise could work too?

[deft oasis]

Vaporeon/Doublade with Eviolite is decent in Rain stall iirc

[obtuse shoal]

Maybe I shouldn't have said stall
I meant balance

[obtuse shoal]

The rest hydration combo is crazy

[radiant rivet]

it is weather dependent tho which makes it exploitable in weather wars

[obtuse shoal]

Same can be said for sandslash though

[radiant rivet]

not excactly.
While you do cut Sandslash speed back to normal you still have to take the attack it most likely fired of and afterwards the sandslash user can just switch out and attempt to come back later.

Goodra now has to be afraid of clicking rest since it could mean having to sleep for 2 turns if it stays in or switch into the rain setter and then back out into goodra.
Both of these are exploitable

[obtuse shoal]

you make a good point

it's weird imo.
While sun can be good because you have alakazam mind blowns, and high recovery moonlights, you have to keep in mind the other team also has high power mind blowns and sacred fires, and yours is pretty weak to rocks

but rain, jigrowth fears absolutely nothing in rain

[radiant rivet]

tbf sun is more often a "So anyways I started blasting" archetype that doesnt care all that much for staying power

[obtuse shoal]

makes sense. if you can slow the barrage down you can start to win

btw is leech seed good on an unaware mon?

you can come in when they're set up, and leech them up

[radiant rivet]

its good against an unaware mon.
But the only fusion I remember who even made somewhat use of Leech was Pyuku/fero.

But that thing is outshined by pexpod nowadays

[obtuse shoal]

alright

but yeah how does rain deal with jigrowth

I'm guessing some etta fusion?

[radiant rivet]

Spikes are a good way

Even Jiragrowth wont enjoy taking a Adaptability Specs Modest Hurricane.

especially if its regen is effectivly canceled

[obtuse shoal]

would a moltres fusion be good for that?

the hurricane spam

[radiant rivet]

It is the strongest one.
But you could also go Noyvern/Nidoking for the sheerforce lifeorb wombo combo

[obtuse shoal]

Like rain can go hurricane spam, scald spam or thunder spam

[radiant rivet]

why not a bit of all 3?

You have 6 slots to fill with fusions

[obtuse shoal]

but you also have a lot to fill

weather, hazard, pivot, weather abuser, setup remover
hazard remover, knock off, priority, uturn punish

rain is also pretty good for dragonite

doesn't chip it like sand

[radiant rivet]

Thats why you should pick fusion that are either the best at what they do, or can multiclass

[obtuse shoal]

I just realized I can use greninja's protean to switch the stats, to give a worse type but better stats

[obtuse shoal]

I just realized an interesting counter to ursanite
Ferroscyther

It can uturn, roost, knock off
Punishes u-turns

[tiny wadi]

I keep finding things where I think “this is absolutely busted” until I remember that this whole meta must be

[obtuse shoal]

I think the 2 most busted things I've found were moltres and xatu

Moltres because of flame body. You're now punishing every uturn, every shadow sneak, every fake out from anyone who's not gliscor or a guts user

and xatu because modrift shows how annoying magic bounce can be

[radiant rivet]

Dont think in individual mons, instead cores and synergies are what differ the good from the great teams.

[obtuse shoal]

but honestly a lot of things are pretty broken
nidoking, alakazam electrode, sandslash

[radiant rivet]

not indivually.
When but together in a team that enables them, then they succeed.

[obtuse shoal]

even individually

alakode is pretty busted individually
fast af, can deal devastating damage with the volt switch and let someone else take the hit, no recoil mind blown or life orb, no chip from sand or rocks

[radiant rivet]

But it is kinda predictable.
and loses to priority/Scarfers
It has counterplay.

Things that are overwhelming are busted.
Alakode isnt overwhelming
Neither is Nido

[obtuse shoal]

of course, I think there's few things here that don't have counterplay

But I mean, genesect dropped from ubers and I don't really see it doing much

maybe it might be good with greninja...

[radiant rivet]

Chomp is a decent partner for it.

[obtuse shoal]

bug ground?

[radiant rivet]

Yes

but mostly because scarf Uturn dowload is a good combo

[obtuse shoal]

I guess it makes sense

[radiant rivet]

and ground stab is more threatining then steel stab

[obtuse shoal]

how do you punish uturns?

[radiant rivet]

depends.
Fast or slow?

[obtuse shoal]

fast

[radiant rivet]

usually with a regen pivot.

[obtuse shoal]

You were just talking about garchomp genesect

but yes, uturn is normally done with slow pivots

there's the option with ferroscyther to punish anything like that

[radiant rivet]

Well yes
You switch in a slowphan.
They Uturn into Alakaode.
You switch into Toxtar
They volt into Chomp.
rinse repeat.

Except you win this trade

[radiant rivet]

For slow pivots, spikes is a good way of dealing with them.

[obtuse shoal]

my sand team has 1 mon weak to spikes

ok, 2 actually

[radiant rivet]

It only has 1 slow pivot that isnt even that slow.
Becausd the best way to deal with a slow pivot is your own slower pivot

[obtuse shoal]

honestly I think this battle of slow pivots is hilarious

[radiant rivet]

it has its charm

[obtuse shoal]

your slowest uturn is scizor at 65 speed

and your slowest volt switch is forretress

and probopass, at 40

some times when I'm with moltres and there's a slower pivot, I just roar

[radiant rivet]

It can work but it can also fail spectacularly.

[lost galleon]

Give your pivot an iron ball

[odd thorn]

You can have my protective pads when you cut them off my cold dead hands

I put them on a pivot in another game a while ago to see how it would work and I haven't looked back

If I absolutely needed a slow pivot, I would use sacrifice the damage and just use teleport tbh

[obtuse shoal]

teleport doesn't work here sadly

[lost galleon]

Does teleport pivot in IF? I didn't think it did.

[odd thorn]

ah damn

[obtuse shoal]

honestly I completely forgot protective pads existed

[odd thorn]

(I have yet to play PIF comp myself I'm trying to finish the dex first)

[lost galleon]

It's been a long, long time since I played IF Showdown, but when I did I found a lot of success with Regen/Vest Forretress/Reuniclus using the slowest volt switch known to man

Of course, that was back when you needed a spdefmaxxing steel type with regenerator to deal with all the pixilated and adaptability boombursts getting thrown around

I have no idea what's good now, and I never actually found a second good Pokemon to use on my teams

[obtuse shoal]

I'm liking sand rush sandslash, now that weather is infinite

[lost galleon]

I remember having a lot of fun with Garchomp/Zoroark, trolling people with illusion and the double immunities, but that probably doesn't work on people who know what they're doing

[obtuse shoal]

and I'm loving steelix moltres with flame body. Nobody runs pads so everything gets burned

[lost galleon]

And using rough skin/iron barbs plus rocky helmet to fuck up Ursanite

[obtuse shoal]

for ursanite I'm just running sand

but a new one I just found out was scyther ferrothorn, with iron barbs

and eviolite

[obtuse shoal]

ursanite hates chip

[lost galleon]

Oh yeah, and at least back then nobody was running anything on them that can scratch a steel type

I remember tooling around a bit with a hail team too, but never getting anywhere

[obtuse shoal]

even now it makes sense
if you go fire punch they might go rain, if you go earthquake they go flying

so ursanite is pretty op but also struggles a bit

magnezone greatly appreciated

[lost galleon]

I only ever won games when I could ride Entei/Leafeon in the sun to victory by spamming V-Create, so I'm pretty trash at teambuilding and playing my teams

[obtuse shoal]

I am so glad v create got banned

because it was the only thing I couldn't handle

[lost galleon]

It really should have been banned before Boomburst

Even I can win games with a 180bp spammable move

[obtuse shoal]

I went rain specifically to counter that move

but then I'd get hit with leaf blades or dragon claws

[obtuse shoal]

It took until lurantis came with contrary

"who's the op one here? the base 180bp move that always gave everyone trouble? or contrary?"

[lost galleon]

I also fused my Ninetales sun setter with an electric type so I could volt switch on whatever tried to set rain, which seemed to give people trouble

[obtuse shoal]

btw have we managed to find any way to make ultra necrozma work?
we have necrozma and we can make him ultra

[lost galleon]

And experimented with Ninetales/Latios because dropping the draco or sun-boosted Overheat is always funny

The game has Ultra Necrozma now?

[obtuse shoal]

yeah I rarely see it, but it exists

the issue is that psychic is one of the worst types to have here

weak to knock, pursuit, u-turn, can be stopped by steels and darks and provides no meaningful resistances

[obtuse shoal]

krookodile feels like such a sad case

It's got intimidate, parting shot, knock off, pursuit

[tiny wadi]

I miss boots so much

[deft oasis]

Back when the UNecro form change was just introduced, I ran Necro/MeloP for a while; Photon + CC is pretty good for coverage while Knock can patch up anything else, especially when boosted by Neuroforce

Unfortunately using Necrozium also means locking your item slot, which is a massive downside

And as usual with most physical attackers, getting burnt is a death sentence, and one that you can't even mitigate since you can't use a Lum Berry

[odd kiln]

i tried chomp/necro and it was ok but having to use fire fang kinda blew

[radiant rivet]

Seen one guy use a regigock/Necrozma with an agility and weakness policy set in sand.

It was suprisingly decent.

[odd kiln]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/862940088122867722/1239231952792584222/skull-Trim-ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[radiant rivet]

yeah the main problem of the set was that it didnt have a way of boosting its dmg besides Proccing weakness policy and it didnt have longevity.

But it could catch someone of guard if they werent carefull

[placid tangle]

Pokemon showdown is very fun

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah I'm a huge fan of the showdown for this game

[placid tangle]

I'm a fan of this (infinite fusion) game because of the showdown

Ironic

[obtuse shoal]

Have you tried playing if dex ou? What kind of team did you use

[placid tangle]

I mid team

Using regigigas as one of my pokemon

[obtuse shoal]

In Ubers/ag?

[placid tangle]

But I use him to be like a road block

[obtuse shoal]

I was using regigigas before. But then I realized arceus had stab espeed
So I fused it with gliscor for the poison heal and became hard to stop

[placid tangle]

I use garchomp, chandelure, kyoger, and three other pokemon I forgot

[obtuse shoal]

I started using final gambit Blissey/ninjask. It's so funny

[placid tangle]

Wait, I thought you ment the normal pokemon showdown, there's a pokemon fusion showdown to

[obtuse shoal]

This is the fusions showdown Channel

[placid tangle]

Final gambit is funny to use

[placid tangle]

I didn't know

I thought it was just ookemon showdown

I'm stupid

[obtuse shoal]

If you haven't tried fusions yet, give it a try

[placid tangle]

Sure

I'll love to try it

[obtuse shoal]

protective pads uturn spam sounds interesting...

[placid tangle]

I have made a team

[radiant rivet]

congratulations

[obtuse shoal]

have you tried it yet

[placid tangle]

Pretty good

The problem I was greedy

[obtuse shoal]

what's your name?

in the showdown

[placid tangle]

Majinisticsonic

A stall team, really

[obtuse shoal]

it wasn't supposed to be, but you killed alakazam

[placid tangle]

Still, a stall team

[obtuse shoal]

more like balance

[placid tangle]

Oh well

[obtuse shoal]

it has some stall mons, but it has some good wallbreakers if you need them

[placid tangle]

I have another team

Haven't tried it

[obtuse shoal]

btw, you know how eviolite works here

you only need 1 preevo in the fusion

[placid tangle]

Increases the defense of unevolved pokemons

[obtuse shoal]

you only need 1 preevo to count as unevolved

and it's why I like scyther so much

roost, eviolite, flying type, uturn, knock off

add to that tyranitar's rock type and the sdef boost it gets in sand
and I get a 2.25x spdef boost

and it's why a critical hit ice beam only did 20%

[placid tangle]

I changed the mew/celeby with mew/scyther

Any way

Gg

[obtuse shoal]

well, if you want to go more offensive, you're gonna need more than that

nidoking is used a lot because of sheer force

alakazam electrode can go mind blown without recoil, on top of fast strong volt switches

hydreigon yanmega gives you quiver dance with oblivion wing, and tinted lens

ursaring dragonite gives you guts boosted stab extremespeeds

[obtuse shoal]

btw, how good is substitute

[radiant rivet]

well substitute is infamous for 3 things.

Being paired with set up moves/items. (Like sub/Sd or sub/salac with abilities like blaze/torrent/overgrow/Swarm)

Being used with leech seed or other passive dmg.

Being used to punish switches.

Being used to avoid status

Now here is the problem :
Spectral thief steals boost through sub and unaware doesnt care what so ever.
(You could make a ghost set up sweeper but these dont have time to sub and then boost)

Leech seed is kinda shitty in this land of regen pivots.

leaving Substitute as an option to punish switches, a niche filled by pivoting moves and boosting moves.

As for avoiding status, it does do that but only if you are faster.
This can work however its just really hard to get max use of

[placid tangle]

good

[obtuse shoal]

hence why hymega is the perfect user

he can sub, set up, and then recover health

I also liked to use it on my tangrowth suicune. It was very easy to toxic

[radiant rivet]

Hymega is a bit frail, but can make it work when playing aggesivly.

I think Metamise is a far better user of it since it is immedialty threating unlike hymega.

[obtuse shoal]

metamise has no recovery though

[radiant rivet]

it is a drawback.
lefties can make up for it.

And besides does it really need recovery? With sub blocking burn your only realistic way of stopping an SD varient is a Spectral thief or Roar/Whirwind (also haze).
And most of these mons are slow they wont particularly enjoy or even survive the 2+ Steelworker anchor shot heading their way.

[obtuse shoal]

sub doesn't block flame body's burn

[radiant rivet]

its a way of dealing with it, but said procc is only 30 % not really a number you want to bet on

and of course you could pair metamise with a magnezone to punish Regitres.

[obtuse shoal]

makes sense

[tiny wadi]

I assumed Regitres was doa because of its not great defensive typing

[obtuse shoal]

regitres is steel flying

think of skarmory but with will o wisp and flame body

[tiny wadi]

Regitres does not exist I was talking about Regitrio and you were talking about Zapmolticuno

[obtuse shoal]

I'm talking about registeel moltres

[tiny wadi]

Oops

[odd kiln]

slow mons cannot use sub well

[harsh sinew]

sup

[tiny wadi]

I haven’t actually played any real matchups yet, just messing around seeing what there is. But wondering if this could potentially work as an HO lead

Celebird (Celebi) @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
Fusion: Delibird
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Aurora Veil
• Blizzard
• Healing Wish
• Stealth Rock

Blizzard is there for the freeze chance but I’m thinking of putting something else

[radiant rivet]

dont most suicide leads hold a stash to prevent a knock out?

Especial since yours will be really frail even with investment.

Said invesment into bulk and not speed can mean that you get taunted (tho taunt is rare)

[tiny wadi]

I worry that Aurora veil won’t last long enough, although I agree about the speed

[radiant rivet]

isnt HOs whole deal "win fast/lose fast"

[tiny wadi]

True

Celebird (Celebi) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Fusion: Delibird
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Aurora Veil
• Nature's Madness
• Healing Wish
• Stealth Rock

Tweaked, replaced blizzard with nature’s madness because I think it more consistently gives immediate momentum

[odd kiln]

veil has to run clay bc otherwise you dont have enough screens turns

this is why you want to maximize speed to get veil up first

i run delibird greninja on my veil team

[tiny wadi]

Had decent success with this so far

https://pokepast.es/58ba9f0dde70dfed

[hexed umbra]

The team looks like it struggles against regenvest pivots, most of your mons are special

Suicune lacks reliable recovery and calm mind, so it can't really be a setup sweeper or a reliable defensive mon imo

[tough root]

Was wondering if anyone can help me with a problem I'm having with the showdown site for infinite fusions. I don't even know if it's possible to do what we are trying to do. Me and my brother wanna do a free for all fight with our fused pokemon but we can't get our teams registered because they want you to register it with all these rules. We just wanna battle each other in a friendly battle nit tournament style. Is that possible and if so how can we achieve it? Thanks in advance.

[hexed umbra]

Is it just the two of you? If so, IF AG

[tough root]

Yeah it's just the 2 of us. We really wanna do the battling.

We will try that one out.

[hexed umbra]

AG is no restrictions (bar FunBro)

[tiny wadi]

Would moonlight and calm mind work better do you think

Ferrotfable suffers from acute four move slot syndrome

[tough root]

I think I'm missing something. I can't find a IF AG. It is in validate correct?

[tiny wadi]

underneath IF UU

[tough root]

IF Dex AG?

[tiny wadi]

yes

[tough root]

Ok. It's telling me they aren't the level to evolve yet. I found these in the wild like that lol. Guess we will altar their levels. Thanks man

[tiny wadi]

I'm confused

oh did you export them from the game

[tough root]

Yeah so we can battle from the game.

[tiny wadi]

I assume that is why I am seeing such classics as Torrent Greninja and Sand Attack

[obtuse shoal]

It looks like it struggles with a lot of things

Like clefable

Oh and the whole thing has no hazard control

And you lack a slow pivot to put alakazam on the field

[tiny wadi]

I actually had Defog but I took it off because no one I was matching with put up hazards

[obtuse shoal]

it's never a problem until you find someone who does use them

[obtuse shoal]

I almost lost this one
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=iheardulikemudkip3-illusion911-1741873236805

tangrotress was an amazing fusion too

rapid spin volt switch and knock off

and regenerator

interesting thing about politoed
It's got drizzle and scald, but that's about it

It wants to have recovery, pivot

[tiny wadi]

It’s common for politoed to have chesto rest isn’t it

[tiny wadi]

What are common pivots in IF?

[obtuse shoal]

not here. You can fuse it mons that have recovery

I think jirachi is a good one

[obtuse shoal]

forretress is used for the steel, rapid spin and slow volt switch

I also use steelix moltres, mostly for the flame body, but it's also got uturn

gliscor also works

scyther can also work, but it's pretty fast

jirachi is also popular

also, umbreon

parting shot is a good one

[radiant rivet]

jirachi/Tangrowth with max Hp/spdf and an AV is the most popular one.

slowking/hydreigon is a nightmare for sun

slowking celebi is decent

[obtuse shoal]

slowking hydreigon is interesting

what moveset?

scald, uturn, slack off and knock off?

it doesn't have knock off

btw alakazam can learn knock off

[tiny wadi]

Yeah but it has better things to do

[obtuse shoal]

yeah I just thought it was funny

now about gliscor. I'm loving using my tyranitar scyther with knock off, uturn, roost and stealth rock

gliscor got the same moveset

[tiny wadi]

Maybe I should replace protect with Defog on my tyranitar gliscor

[obtuse shoal]

but I feel like gliscor is not bulky enough to do the same thing
hell, poison heal is such a good ability it just makes no sense to use those moves, as they're moves you can use while you're burned and still have a massive effect

[tiny wadi]

One thing I’ve noticed is that stealth rock isn’t nearly as good because of how much choice there is in typing

[obtuse shoal]

it's so so, because flying is a pretty strong typing here

[obtuse shoal]

I'd say replace toxic

[tiny wadi]

Oh that’s outdated

Tyrancor (Tyranitar) (F) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Fusion: Gliscor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature

• Stealth Rock
• Stone Edge
• Earthquake
• Protect

Is current

[obtuse shoal]

that does nothing to a steel flying

[tiny wadi]

Stab stone edge

[obtuse shoal]

do you want to test out your team against me?

[tiny wadi]

Don’t have stable internet right now but in a couple hours maybe

[obtuse shoal]

alright

btw, pain split on toxnite? you could use recover

[tiny wadi]

Disincentivizes healthy Pokémon using it as setup fodder

Although dragon tail already does that

Hmm

[tiny wadi]

I have some spare time now

[obtuse shoal]

Alright I'm in

[obtuse shoal]

ready when you are

[tiny wadi]

I’m not verified but my username is ScarletIronFist

Ok I have some adjusting to do

[obtuse shoal]

which mon of mine did you think was the most dangerous

[tiny wadi]

Sandslamence

[obtuse shoal]

makes sense

[tiny wadi]

A couple of takeaways
-I need setup of my own, weird that didn’t occur to me before
-need more role compression
-the download photon geyser thing is a fun gimmick but is not sufficiently powerful, need wallbreaking
-need ground resists
-need pivots, I miss gen 8 teleport so much
-potentially own weather setter to disrupt others

I haven’t played any infinite weather metagames before so not being able to just wait things out is new

[obtuse shoal]

i miss gen8 teleport too

I wish they could implement it here

[tiny wadi]

Celetoed (Celebi) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Drizzle
Fusion: Politoed
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 120 SpA / 100 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Surf
• Future Sight
• U-turn
• Heal Bell

Messing around

[obtuse shoal]

heall bell is pretty annoying ngl

[tiny wadi]

Umbcor (Umbreon) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Fusion: Gliscor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe

• Parting Shot
• Wish
• Knock Off
• Protect

Negative synergy with poison heal though

[obtuse shoal]

gliscor is pretty weird

[tiny wadi]

Why? I thought protect with wish and poison heal was good synergy

[obtuse shoal]

it might work

i say gliscor is weird because despite having one of the best abilities in the game, I rarely feel like it's holding a team together

[tiny wadi]

should I go for knock off or foul play

[obtuse shoal]

they're both good imo

[obtuse shoal]

knock off is important for every team to have imo

but if you already have one, do you need more?

I also work a lot with burns, and foul play cuts that...

[tiny wadi]

Not for Umbcor it doesn’t

[obtuse shoal]

I'd say gliscor has attack respectable enough to use knock off

but it's also that knock off is the best on bulky mons

like, my tyranither, even when he gets burned can still use knock off and rocks and uturn

gliscor can do the same thing, but it doesn't need to because it has poison heal, so he can do things others can't

but umbcor is pretty good, one of the better gliscor fusions

[radiant rivet]

wouldnt scald be better in every way?
then future sight can be swapped for rocks

[tiny wadi]

I forgot they could learn that

[obtuse shoal]

yeah celebi learning rocks is weird

[tiny wadi]

I mean scald

[obtuse shoal]

what do you guys think of nat dex

[odd kiln]

flip the two and its a good rain setter

[tiny wadi]

https://pokepast.es/fb5200c80ab5c4c3

Slowly getting more consistent results as I go

[hexed umbra]

Gengar/Porygon should run something else instead of Dark Pulse

[tiny wadi]

What would you suggest

[radiant rivet]

Ice beam to hit most nidoking and gliscor fusions for super effective maybe?

Focus blast is also an option

[obtuse shoal]

hey modrift what do you think of gliscor?
Personally I've seen the best uses for priority

[radiant rivet]

Gliscors top tier ability, insante typing and ridiculos movepool has made it a consistent threat with many possible fusions.

From curse facade snorcor
to CM suicor
and spikes stacking Glisopod.
Or the tank that is rhycor

Gliscor is metagame defining threat and needs to be prepared for when building a team.

Now what do you mean by "best uses for priority"

[odd kiln]

bro forgoes all that for aqua jet lol

[radiant rivet]

if I may ask, what gliscor fusion are you running?

[obtuse shoal]

golisopod, with aqua jet

the curse one looks interesting

[radiant rivet]

what did you drop for jet?
Glisopod has 4mss

[radiant rivet]

Snorcor is good, until you run into a clefclops.
You can run toxic for it but that means giving up on either roost,knock, curse/Sd or facade.

And you kind of need all of them

[obtuse shoal]

wym drop. is there a standard set for it?

[radiant rivet]

Not standard as in most used.
(the data for that isnt public)

But knock, spikes Uturn and roost or Eq seems like the most bang for your buck

[obtuse shoal]

btw, my tyranitar scyther has the moves stealth rock, roost, uturn and knock off
and I realize gliscor can do de same thing, but without the bulk and more recovery

is that what gliscor is supposed to do?

[radiant rivet]

Gliscor can do many things.
But this Golisopod fusions selling point is spikes, right?

And you want a spiker in this meta to come in often. (Hence the def investment and roost)

You want it to bring in mons that can abuse spikes (Hence Uturn)

But you also dont want to be too passive (Hence Knock off)

You could drop EQ for jet but what does a non Invested jet even finish off?

[obtuse shoal]

I just brought gliscor because it's a generally good mon

what I need more is priority, and a defogger/spinner

and it's got to have recovery

[radiant rivet]

what are you willing to sacrifice for it?

a perfect team doesnt exist so what do you believe are acceptable loses in your team?

[obtuse shoal]

rn I'm sacrificing gliscor's roost

it's got roost, aqua jet, earthquake and defog

[radiant rivet]

then why are you running golisopod?

its main reason for being OU is that its a spiker

thats like using Dragonite and not having espeed

[obtuse shoal]

I liked the stat spread, and it had aqua jet

[radiant rivet]

so you want a bulk priority user right?

does it have to be jet?

[obtuse shoal]

no

[radiant rivet]

but it needs hazard removal?

and priority

[obtuse shoal]

yep

maybe I might need to rearrange things

[radiant rivet]

any other thing youd like to add to cart?

[obtuse shoal]

recovery

[tiny wadi]

Jichomp is kind of an ungodly creature ngl

[radiant rivet]

kk ill look for an alternative/upgrade

[obtuse shoal]

and it's got to be sand immune

[radiant rivet]

its a need scarfer and bs machine

[radiant rivet]

gotchu fam

[obtuse shoal]

https://pokepast.es/44e0029f8af8b4fe
This is the team, and I've been feeling like gliscor has been the weak link, the issue being more that I'm not using him right

[radiant rivet]

what is that regi

[obtuse shoal]

it's my unaware mon

it's also my scald answer

[radiant rivet]

https://pokepast.es/7f651bf10ef48420 here is my sand team

[obtuse shoal]

i was going toxic, and then realized what if they're steels? so I added soak. and then "what if they're magic guard", so I added gastro acid

[radiant rivet]

how is scald a problem for you?

[obtuse shoal]

damn, it's making mine look like stall

[obtuse shoal]

rain teams

if they have rain up, I don't want to send it tyranitar, having it take a super effective hit, and then get burned

[radiant rivet]

lead with zam, if they lead with their rain setter you can volt into ttar which will take jack with the eviolite and sand boost

in the weather wars you always want to be able to punish a raw switch to the opponents weather setter

they should never feel safe doing so. My team achives this with plethora of uturn to immedialty get the weather back into my control

[obtuse shoal]

Issue is, what if ttar is out and they switch the setter in

Who will then take the scald in

[radiant rivet]

for me its regitres

sure if the game goes on for too long that becomes an issue. Luckily melo P/nidoking/Alakazam and Haxorous arent excatly known for allowing the opponent to play slow

[obtuse shoal]

It looks a bit vulnerable to setup

[radiant rivet]

that is a weakness, luckily set up needs turns to get going, which my team can take advantage of

so it isnt unwinnable

[obtuse shoal]

Btw it seems magic bounce can counter gastro acid

[radiant rivet]

that regi is a crime against humanity and you should drop it immediatly

[obtuse shoal]

I still feel the need for having an unaware though

specifically to deal with quiver dance

[radiant rivet]

why is QD a problem ?

do you lack the offense to threaten them immedialty?

that why I use a scarf Jirachi, which outspeeds all QDs at plus one and threatens an OHKO

your regi is utterly useless against any regencore ever