showdown-general

[radiant rivet]

he had jolteon to remove yours

[obtuse shoal]

yeah but I don't think I had a better mon for nido

[radiant rivet]

Pex lives an earthpower an ohkos with gunk

[obtuse shoal]

i didn't have gunk

and I think poison is neutral

[radiant rivet]

and jira lives a flamme and ohkos with leaf storm

[obtuse shoal]

i had giga drain

[radiant rivet]

why?

[obtuse shoal]

i asked for moveset suggestions, was given giga drain

[radiant rivet]

it doesnt need the sustain

[obtuse shoal]

i honestly haven't thought much about this idea of what checks what

and yeah I guess I didn't play tox well enough

[radiant rivet]

you dont make a gameplan?

[obtuse shoal]

actually no

[surreal marsh]

i need to make this in the game

who could stop it 🤔

myb dffrnt item tho

focus sash i think

myb switch out calm mind for a coverage move

[hexed umbra]

Do you mean in normal Infinite Fusion or competitively?
Either way, being unable to hit either dark or grass types is terrible

[dull plaza]

You also can’t hit any pokemon that have sleep immunity abilities or already have other status conditions

[surreal marsh]

True but Pokémon with sleep amunities aren’t particularly common

Also make it go first so they have no status conditions

Lastly probably would replace calm mind or recover with flamethrower for coverage

[radiant rivet]

Gliscor.
Ursanite.
Any magic bounce user.
Any natural cure user

[unborn pine]

i think the main problem is grass and dark types being immune to spore and dream earer respectively
its a very inconsistent move, just running psychic would be better, its only 10 bp less and can be used anytime

or psyshock for when fighting other calm mind mons

is this in the context of showdown or a playthrough?

[odd kiln]

spore is banned in ou so youd have to use this in ag, where you get walled by:

• shedinja
• imposter
• magic bounce
• poison heal
• steel types
• unaware
• dark types
• chansey/blissey fusions that arent imposter
• grass types

[hexed umbra]

Does IF AG have sleep clause?

[odd kiln]

no

[radiant rivet]

I wonder how strong the Uber triple fusions are

So Ray/Groudon/Kyogre

Reshiram/Zekrom/Kyurem

Palkia/Giratina/Dialga

oh and

deoxys/Genesect/Mewtwo

[odd kiln]

they all suck in ag

[obtuse shoal]

ive got to say, poison heal is one of the best abilities in the game

if not the best

you're immune to status, knock off doesn't do anything to you anymore, and you heal every turn giving you massive longetivity

[odd kiln]

this is true

any ability that gives free healing with easy conditions is gonna be very good

[obtuse shoal]

yep, but while regenerators can be limited by hazards or status, poison heal is fine with all that

especially because gliscor by itself is immune to spikes

[odd kiln]

ph is also chipped by hazards

[obtuse shoal]

yeah but some regenerators are chipped by sr and spikes

also, I understood the other day
ursanite hates sand

they use a lot of steel and rock types, and he gets chipped a lot more

[weary burrow]

What is the best fusion for your favourite Pokémon (competitively)

All Pokémon have to be in the IF dex.

[odd kiln]

favorite mon quag so best fusion quaglix

[weary burrow]

Mine is Murkrow, so Murew

Prankster+spore is crazy

[odd kiln]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/862940088122867722/1239231952792584222/skull-Trim-ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[radiant rivet]

well mines houndoom, and I have seen some success with magnezone houndoom in UU

[obtuse shoal]

idk, I like a lot of pokemon

well, I do like grass types, but they're kind of flawed

maybe jirachi tangrowth, as it's just difficult to deal with

[weary burrow]

Fair

[obtuse shoal]

I also did very well with ferrothorn garganacl, but that's not if dex

I've also enjoyed using moltres with a steel type and just burning everything with will o wisp and flame body

I honestly think it's a huge reason why any physical mon here needs to be able to deal with burn

[obtuse shoal]

I think exeggutor ferrothorn, it's just ferrothorn with softboiled

[odd kiln]

and much lower spd

[radiant rivet]

i remember that fusion.
it is outclassed by pexgolisopod

[obtuse shoal]

yeah you're the one who showed it to me

how's it outclassed? and what does pex golisopod do?

poison bug?

or poison water?

[radiant rivet]

Poison water and regenerator

scald and knock make it far harder to switch into in this meta

but regen helps its longevity tremendous

[radiant rivet]

set spikes, scald, knock and never die

[obtuse shoal]

damn, is there even a point to grass types now

[radiant rivet]

jiragrowth exists

and is pretty amazing

grass moves are pretty mid tbh

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah, I think the only good one now is leech seed because spore got banned

There's also compound eyes sleep powder

And even leech seed got issues

Btw what's a good type for ground types?
Ground flying? Ground dragon? Ground steel?

Also, is it worth it to always have a thousand arrows answer in case sandslash comes in?

[radiant rivet]

ground flying, water ground.

Fairy ground, Ice ground, Dragon ground, fire ground etc.

Since sand hax is a top tier threat any team should have an answer to it

[radiant rivet]

Imagine if triple fusion used the best stat of each mon in every individuall stat :

Enraicune would have 115 in every stat, buffing its BST by 109 points

[radiant rivet]

speaking of triple fusions : where is the triple fusion of the gen 6 starters?

[hexed umbra]

It doesnt currently exist in the base game

It wouldn't be that good imo, no reason that you would want it over a Greninja fusion if you want Protean

[radiant rivet]

true, but the sprite would go hard

[hexed umbra]

Theres already some sprites for it

By Ralliv

[obtuse shoal]

Sweet. Speaking of sprites is there any for NAT Dex?

[waxen leaf]

do we have a viability ranking?

also hi I'm not sure if I will play this format but was curious

[hexed umbra]

Theres no main viability rankings but Anaconja is the best player (probably) and heres a tier list they made

idk what Delphox is doing over there in D tier, what does it even do?

[radiant rivet]

i think it makes a decent fusion with nido but thats it

[hexed umbra]

Theres a lot better mons for nidoking imo

[waxen leaf]

yo wait Sandslash b+? what is ma boy doing there

[hexed umbra]

Thousand Arrows + Sand Rush

[obtuse shoal]

it's a ground type with rapid spin, knock off, and stab thousand arrows

and sand rush

[hexed umbra]

Best sand abuser (Lycanroc in shambles)

[waxen leaf]

SAND HAS THOUSAND ARROWS IN THIS GAME?????

[hexed umbra]

Theres a bunch of expert tutor moves, that's where the GOOD STUFF is

Theres a page on the wiki

[obtuse shoal]

so much of it has been banned

like double iron bash

[waxen leaf]

thank lord

[obtuse shoal]

yeah imagine scizor with double iron bash

[hexed umbra]

Not oblivion wing though (I hate Hydremega)

[waxen leaf]

Jesus

[hexed umbra]

Yanmega gets Quiver Dance btw

[obtuse shoal]

always did

but now it's not double weak to rocks

[hexed umbra]

It does NOT in the regular games lmao

[obtuse shoal]

oh

[waxen leaf]

Yankazam here we gooooo

[hexed umbra]

Bug/Psychic is a lacking offensive duo, and it lacks coverage for steels

[obtuse shoal]

alakazam is better with electrode because it has mind blown

[obtuse shoal]

also, you'd have to choose between tinted lens or magic guard

[hexed umbra]

It's the one good Electrode fusion

[obtuse shoal]

i mean, ursaring dragonite is the one good ursaring fusion

[hexed umbra]

Gliscor/[half the tier] is also the only good Gliscor fusion

[obtuse shoal]

you can just use gliscor by itself

[hexed umbra]

Classic Gliscor

Just noticed the tier list lacks Machamp, D tier mon but should be mentioned

[obtuse shoal]

haha dynamic punch go brrr

[waxen leaf]

Electrode got what

[obtuse shoal]

mind blown, and with magic guard it doesn't make recoil

[waxen leaf]

I know

wth

this format got much crazier than I thought

[obtuse shoal]

oh and weather is infinite

but chlorophyll and swift swim are banned, sand rush is not though

[radiant rivet]

clef has light of ruin.

[obtuse shoal]

wait, is it clef?

i thought it was fusions like mew

and celebi

[radiant rivet]

clef needs to be fused with something

[obtuse shoal]

clef with clef

[radiant rivet]

anything

that might work

[waxen leaf]

panic scream

oh good

[obtuse shoal]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=illusion911-saterael-1734613198610
this is what a match can look like

[waxen leaf]

cool

what crazy thing nido gor to make it S? os it just sheer force and the good move pool?

[obtuse shoal]

sheer force with good movepool

[waxen leaf]

Yeah I figured

[obtuse shoal]

go nidoking togekiss or nidoking gengar

[waxen leaf]

Nidoqueen could be cool too

[obtuse shoal]

I also seen steelix because of sheer force

like steelix mew, with quiver dance and softboiled

steelix would take care of the defense, and quiver dance would take care of the offense

ok miltank is a bulky normal that can heal

[obtuse shoal]

another thing is that in this meta, burns are everywhere

[obtuse shoal]

feel the power of ferronacl!
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=llllllllllleaon-illusion911-1734616365655

[noble dirge]

👀

[radiant rivet]

strictly worse than nidoking

[radiant rivet]

I am trying to make an NU team.
Send help

[obtuse shoal]

Is there any good mons in nu?

[radiant rivet]

no, thats why I am losing my sanity

Ok, tbf Houndoom isnt that bad.
But Armaldo is basically the only decent spinner in the tier.

Armaldo

(My sanity cant take much more)

[obtuse shoal]

where did you even find nu in the formats

[radiant rivet]

its not a format

you can just filter for NU mons in any given tier tho

[obtuse shoal]

I can see why you lost patience

[waxen leaf]

armaldo pretty cool!(in gen 3 OU)

[odd kiln]

what does it do

i only know the hoenn gaiden version where it has analytic or something

yeah and higher spe

[obtuse shoal]

alright, saw an archaludon pelipper in nat ou

and it's pretty good

steel flying, it's got good defense, electro shot

puts up its own rain

[odd kiln]

imo its bad

nonstab and bad offensive typing

[waxen leaf]

it hard countes snorlax

one of the few good knock off users

can be a rapid spinner too

[odd kiln]

right

[obtuse shoal]

it's a good defensive typing for pelipper

and both mons have high defense and spatk

[odd kiln]

defensive typing lends it to pivoting to a rain abuser why are you attacking with it

[obtuse shoal]

the point isn't attacking

I'm saying it's a mon with good defensive typing and good synergy when it needs it

[odd kiln]

then use a different steel

one with better spd

registeel is right there you dont need to waste archaludon on it

[obtuse shoal]

I've seen a lot of moltres today

Specifically registeel moltres

I think it's pretty cool how I would rarely see it before but now I see it all the time.

[odd kiln]

it is good after all

[obtuse shoal]

i wonder if moltres should be buffed to ou

But yeah I only think it's cool because I started using it and then everyone started using it

because for game balance it's atrocious. It basically makes all physical mons vulnerable to burn useless

[odd kiln]

but registeel is the only good fusion with it

so really its registeel being ou

[obtuse shoal]

registeel isn't the one with flame body and roost

the job could be done just as well with steelix

[odd kiln]

you lose a ton of spd

[obtuse shoal]

yes

but the point of moltres here is being a physical tank that cripples all of the opponent's physical mons

[odd kiln]

thing is the relevant uu physical mons either dont use contact (sandslash) are already statused (breloom) or are metahelmise

uu is pretty special focused

[mossy violet]

what a mean fusion lol

[obtuse shoal]

You could say it makes them salty

[mossy violet]

real

[obtuse shoal]

thoughts on steel dark?

[odd kiln]

good type in theory but v hard to make good stats in practice

metagross bisharp is like ok

[radiant rivet]

thoughts on lax scyther?

if that thing didnt have a sr weakness it be busted

[odd kiln]

busted how

seems like worse lax golbat

[radiant rivet]

You know i never considered golbat, thanks for the rec

scyther does provide more attack and speed for the fusion, while their bulk is basically identicall

[odd kiln]

golbat has haze which makes it an effective togeking check unless it has tbolt

[radiant rivet]

i thought togeking most often runs 4 attacks

[odd kiln]

it can but tbolt doesnt actually hit anything

(besides this mon)

flamethrower hits jigrowth and then ice beam hits tyranbi kinda, plot hits fatass spd walls, hazards chips mons well, recovery makes it harder to chip down

[rotund timber]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/940313343808372829/1240741596069232670/togif.gif

I start my journey

[short oasis]

hello

[rotund timber]

to make

[short oasis]

how do i do a showdown

[rotund timber]

golurk competitive

[rotund timber]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com

[short oasis]

can i also use pokemon from pokemon infinite fusion

[rotund timber]

nah

[short oasis]

aw man

[pure breach]

Yeah you can if you use the Infinite Fusion Showdown

https://play.pokeathlon.com

@short oasis @rotund timber

[obtuse shoal]

I saw a gliscor golisopod the other day, and it felt really good

like a bulkier gliscor

gliscor's thing is being able to last long while doing decent damage, so golisopod felt ok

[warm flint]

hey abt pokeathalon infinite fusion showdown, where are all the new sprites? isnt dynamic loading fixed now?

[waxen leaf]

trying to make a team... and my lord this complicated

I'm wrapping my head around not sure what to do any fusion like kore used or something like that???

[radiant rivet]

Right so the basics :

A fusion is seperated into two parts : the head and the body.

If you designate a pokemon as A fusion its first typing will be used (So Dragonite Dragon Flying will give its Dragon typing as a head) while the HP, SpA, Spd stats will be used as well.

Making a pokemon the body of a fusion means the fusion gains the secondary typing (So The flying typing for Dragonite) while the fusion will also be given the ATK DEF SPE of the body pokemon.

(Note : All of The fusion stat are influenced by both head and body so it might not have the excact same stats as either head or body.)

the fusion gets access to one ability of either head or body.

The fusion has the movepool of both fusion partners and some moves exklusive to the fusion.

[waxen leaf]

I know all of that I also playing the game|

it moe like trying to understand what could be good?

I tried making a team someone wanna disintegrate me?

[obtuse shoal]

My experience is that for attacking, you should use mons that don't like burns

I would say it's the biggest difference between a good team and a bad team

Popular Mons include ursaring Dragonite for stab extreme speed with guts

Gliscor, in general

Yanmega hydreigon for tinted lens quiver dance oblivion wing

Alakazam electrode for magic guard mind blown

[waxen leaf]

https://pokepast.es/aa7d992c4b38da54 yeah chat I think I was not cooking here

[waxen leaf]

humu humu

[obtuse shoal]

Don't mind burns, sorry

I even saw someone use a natural cure meloetta

And sandslash haxorus would run lum berry

[obtuse shoal]

You've got some good moms there, with snorcor and regitres

[waxen leaf]

I have seen the egites around and was like yah I should play skarmory on steroids

[obtuse shoal]

An regitres is beast. I bet your breloom wouldn't even want to Mach punch anything knowing regitres can come in and burn it

Nidoking is one of the best wall breakers around, and there's just a lot of walls rn

Latios is good, but you also see togekiss, maybe gengar

[pure breach]

Dynamic sprites were fixed And made public to us a day or two ago, the way they’re done has changed drastically. Yoshi is working on rewriting how we pull sprites atm, so hopefully we’ll be back to dynamic sprites soon

[obtuse shoal]

A thing I realized about pursuit trapping. You have to worry about the ghost wisping you

[odd kiln]

good start but imo pz typhlosion is much better for adapt eruption

snorcor wants facade to take most advantage of ph

and i think you want a sturdy fire resist so you dont just get destroyed by fire mons getting boosted in sun

[waxen leaf]

the idea was actually to keep the flash fire ! as you said having a way to deal with enemy fie types is important

[odd kiln]

thing is its an offensive fire switchin and also your sun abuser so if it dies you lose both your defensive switchin and your wincon

much better to delegate any defensive value to your defensive core

[obtuse shoal]

Latios with typhlosion seems good

it give typh levitate, and more speed

[radiant rivet]

a good team needs a good core

[warm flint]

Ye ik know ty though

[unborn pine]

i see ferrothorn's typing has switched (again?)
did this happen for other pokemon too or only ferrothorn

[main jungle]

phantump also got swapped

that's all I'm aware of

well also ferroseed

[odd kiln]

wait

death of shed ferro

[frosty yarrow]

Channel Locked

🔒 Apparently discord Permissions are funky, but we are starting our lockdown per announcements, happy holidays!

[hushed anchor]

I can't enter in Pokemon showdown

[fast elm]

https://play.pokeathlon.com/

try that link

[obtuse shoal]

@potent crystal already sent a challenge

ready when you are

[potent crystal]

oh

it didnt pop up hurp

[obtuse shoal]

so what did you think @potent crystal

[potent crystal]

uhh i tilted myself off the face of planet after tryiong to big brain

"no way he keeps a water groujnd in against Ddanced Chomp with power whip"

so after you did i just mentally checked out ngl

[obtuse shoal]

Oh I didn't know you had power whip. I just knew you were steel ground

and had thousand arrows

[potent crystal]

Not on the gliscor i mean

[potent crystal]

God nothing tilts me mroe than waiting 20-30 min for a game, making the wrong move t1 and losing

[obtuse shoal]

Thoughts on fighting flying

Seems like a good offensive type

[radiant rivet]

Great offensively, mid defensivly.

Amazing on the physical side with Brave bird and CC, horrible specially with Hurricane and Focus blast

but being a flying type neutral to rock is always nice, and resisting knock of is neat as well

[obtuse shoal]

yeah surprised hawlucha doesn't really get much use here

but I guess it makes sense, since everything is bulky

and it can get burned in an instant

[radiant rivet]

You mean in this meta specifically?

[obtuse shoal]

Yes

[radiant rivet]

The problem with fighting/flying here is that there is no amazing fusion of this combination

[narrow wigeon]

hello

Who wants to do IF FFA

[obtuse shoal]

you also have to ask what an amazing fusion needs

ursanite is a good example. stab extremespeed while not carrying about burn

and can recover

Or alakazam electrode. Magic guard, mind blown, terrific speed, big special attack

and it's special

hydreigon yanmega, nidoking with anything

[odd kiln]

ive used dodrio melop on my flying mono

does more damage than i expect but also very frail

[obtuse shoal]

Dodrio is such a weird Mon

It's like fearow but better

110 attack and speed

[odd kiln]

byeah

[hexed umbra]

"Fearow but better" is such a low bar

[lost galleon]

That is literally what Dodrio was created to be

A late game replacement for Fearow and Pidgeot

[obtuse shoal]

I expected it to have wings at least

But I guess it gets the job done

[radiant rivet]

A pokemon value is determinend by 4 factors :
Typing
Stats
Abilitity
Movepool

For a pokemon to be good it needs to be good in 3 out of 4 aspects.

Butterfree has an amazing movepool with Hurricane, sleep powder uturn QD etc as well as amazing abilities in tinted lense and compound eyes, however it is held back by its awfull typing and pathetic stats.

IF fusion is even harsher I would say, requiring the fusion to be good in all 4 aspects.

Take ursanite : Guts is a great ability in the world of scald, its stats are also amazing : hitting hard whilst staying bulky.
Espeed means it is impossible to revenge kill via scarfers or priortity, has boosting options in SD, longevity via roost and can coverage like Eq, fire punch or Crunch to get passt normal answers.
Said normal type also makes it immune to spectral thief further limiting counterplay to it.

[obtuse shoal]

Would you say there's any Mon that's good enough without fusions, or fused with only itself

Like gliscor

[radiant rivet]

Gliscor while defintetly good would suffer serverly from Oppurtunity cost, why use gliscor when Rhycor is right there?

Its like asking someone why they should use gen 4 blaziken over gen 4 infernape,there just isnt a good reason.

[radiant rivet]

I do think gliscors decent-good stats would prevent it from threating/checking most of the tier.
I would still be a teambuilding check tho

[obtuse shoal]

because gliscor is faster

[radiant rivet]

does this extra speed allow it to hit crucial targets?

it wont outrun melo p nor zam nor ursanite, it might outrun somenidoking fusions (let me check) but even if it does so, what can it do with that?

so it does outrun togeking by basespeed, but gliscor is usually run spdf or phys def, while nido goes max spe and max spa allowing it to outspeed uninvested Gliscor.

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah you make a good case

[radiant rivet]

I do tend to put some effort into my arguments.
Thank you for noticing : )

[obtuse shoal]

btw is weather useful

sand limits you to ground, rock, steel and magic guard

the chip is pretty good against ursanite

rain is pretty good though. Hurricane, stronger water moves, thunder, dry skin

rest hydration

and steels appreciate the fire control

[odd kiln]

of course weather is good half of the teams these days are weather

[obtuse shoal]

imagine if pelipper was here

[radiant rivet]

i think people would prefer poli tbh

like the reason peliper is prefered in standard play is because it gets Uturn, however with fusion this niche isnt really unique anymore

hurricane is neat tho so it might find value there

[odd kiln]

flying is a good defensive type to add and politoed doesnt fit v well with the uturners available besides celebi

[obtuse shoal]

pelipper has drizzle, but also uturn, hurricane and roost

politoed has none of those, so he needs to get them from somewhere else

While pelipper would've been allowed to go with bulkier mons

[radiant rivet]

i will admit something like pelisteel has its charm

[obtuse shoal]

between moltres and xatu, it seems like registeel has a lot of flying fans

[radiant rivet]

what steel flying does to a mf

also 80 hp and 150 spdf is stupid for a head

[obtuse shoal]

and the coveted steel typing

the only flying type not a fan here is gliscor

and togekiss I guess because he prefers to cause destruction

[radiant rivet]

and dragonite, cause they like the bear

[obtuse shoal]

I really like this fusion. They're the perfect pair for each other. One of them has extremespeed and roost, the other one gives the type and the ability

[radiant rivet]

it is a good one tbh, if somewhat onedimensional

[obtuse shoal]

"what is my purpose"
You press extremespeed

I mean, you can try it with arcanine or lucario

But you won't get the same effect

[radiant rivet]

i do like sylcario since its typing is excellent

[obtuse shoal]

Steel fairy is interesting, it's got the defensive profile of steel and the offensive profile of fairy

but it gets limited by steel types

and those are everywhere

[radiant rivet]

thats where it coverage comes in

blaze kick and eq combinend with SD

then again this fusion is UU for a reason

[obtuse shoal]

thoughts on moltres registeel?

It feels like such an op mon

not op, but a lot of mons just fall down to it

[pastel glade]

hey, is there anyway to do online battles and how ?

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah, check the pins for the showdown

Make your team or try randoms to get a feel for it, and have fun

[obtuse shoal]

The other day saw a guy with dusclops miltank. Completely forgot milk drink existed

It's got some interesting stats too

[opaque inlet]

It’s good but passive

[obtuse shoal]

I guess your kinds of mons are more offense oriented

[opaque inlet]

it just that it seems like it would be easy to set up against it

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah it's also why I have roar on it

People would swords dance, I would burn, and they wouldn't get the memo and would sd again, so I would roar

It doesn't attack by itself, but it neutralises a huge chunk of mons

But any guy that actually plays this game well is aware of it
Most of the games where I lose, regitres is dead weight

[opaque inlet]

I just feel like it’s wouldn’t be good against the most popular offensive mons

Like togeking Alakazam/Eletrocde or Ursanite

For example

[obtuse shoal]

Yes.
I feel like it's an anti noob Mon.
It gets you past noobs using their garchomps and scizors

But the best offensive mons are there exactly because they can get past it

[obtuse shoal]

Actually, my ursanite would only deal 44% to it, and then get chipped by sand

[opaque inlet]

Ig it would depend on if sand is up other wise Ursanite can just roost up

[obtuse shoal]

But it's not like ursanite likes to take chip damage anyway

I've also had times I had to face regitres and Pyukumuku dusclops

Not sure if you can do much there without exposing yourself to a nidoking if you try using electric attacks

Or a sandslash

[opaque inlet]

Most electric types can get grass moves

Mainly Alakazam/ electrode gets energy ball

[obtuse shoal]

Then you have to choose. Will regitres swap to sandslash?

If you energy ball it could stay or bring in Dragonite, but if you thunderbolt it could bring in sandslash

Not like it isn't nerve wracking for the opponent too

Btw thoughts on dry skin? Saw a flygon today but wasn't taking advantage of it

[opaque inlet]

It prolly just mind blown to cover for both

[obtuse shoal]

It's a good ability but the mons that get it are pretty frail. It's like it's life orb healing

[opaque inlet]

I could see uses for it

Especially on rain

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah it's pretty good for ground types. They grass types don't get to hit stab that much, and ice typed are rare

So they're ground types not afraid of bulky waters

But it can't do anything to steel flyings

[weary burrow]

Im currently trying out If dex AG, what fusions would you recommend?

[obtuse shoal]

Shedinja

You can give it endeavour

[weary burrow]

Huh

Is it really good when suckerpunch exists?

There is no darktype with endeavour

[obtuse shoal]

You can go bug steel

[weary burrow]

Ohhh good call

There is no Pokémon who has both steel as a secondary type and access to endeavour

[odd kiln]

there is in raticate alola

and ferro should be grass steel as well as sandslash alola

solgaleo works too but doesnt have spikes or spiky shield

[obtuse shoal]

how much damage does zapmolticuno take from rocks?

[odd kiln]

100

[obtuse shoal]

honestly that's hilarious

I've been using a suicune goodra fusion

it's pretty fun

[obtuse shoal]

put it on in front of a shuckle wailord, they tried to toxic it but it had hydration

[deep coyote]

For IF Natdex doubles AG, i've been using a chien pao roaring moon for stab ruin boosted scale shots, i dunno if it's good as it was part of a team building challenge i imposed upon myself. If u want i can post my team stats

Also umbreon dawn wings is such a fun mon for stall and access to foul play

[cosmic aspen]

Hello

What is the difference between Nat dex and normal dex

I don't understand

[odd kiln]

if dex has only the mons from ingame

natdex has all mons ever made

[cosmic aspen]

Okk

[manic steppe]

(sorry i accidentally clicked on this channel and saw this comment out of context so I might be missing something) Doesn't one of the Cinnabar lab robots have a Shedinja/Lucario with Endeavor?

or is that robot just cheating

okay I looked up the movesets on the calc and the robot might, in fact, be cheating 😶

[odd kiln]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/862940088122867722/1239231952792584222/skull-Trim-ezgif.com-optimize.gif

[noble dirge]

PEAK

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-gif-2813086212540319582

[mossy violet]

crazy gif

[obtuse shoal]

I love this meme

Playing pokemon online is just this

I feel like a lot of mons get ruined stat wise because of the body head mechanic

like gardevoir wants the fairy type, but it is better as a head, which wants the psychic type

[radiant rivet]

While definently true, any other fusion mechanic would ruin other mons, so it kind of a "pick your poison" kind of deal

[obtuse shoal]

Makes me want to pick the typing aside from the stats

[radiant rivet]

explain

so you only give typing, not stats?

[obtuse shoal]

you choose the typing, like you choose the ability

[radiant rivet]

and the stats?

[obtuse shoal]

you can keep them as they are

[radiant rivet]

so head and body stats?

[obtuse shoal]

yes

the only thing that changes is being able to choose which of the type combinations you want

[obtuse shoal]

I just want to thank whoever put that zoroark togekiss on randoms, with night daze

80% chance of accuracy down, and it had substitute

[radiant rivet]

seems like the kind of mon thats better in the opponents hand

[opal juniper]

Does Feebas have any place?

https://tenor.com/view/feebas-pokemon-my-beloved-heart-beloved-gif-18342486612879578545

(its a fast (80 speed) adaptability mon with scald :>

held back by a atrocity of stats

[radiant rivet]

I think thats putting it mildly

[radiant rivet]

Maybe Feebas Zapdos?
86 Speed and 86 Spa with adaptability is still atrocius, but maybe It can get something (I was gone say work but that would be a lie) done with enough support?

Support Includes : Rain, Webs, Screens, Pivot users, Healing wish, A blanket, spikes, Rocks, Toxic spikes, being there for its first school day and most importantly : Not bringing it to battle.

The list of common fusions that match up well against it is a bit long to write so for simplicitys sake here is a list of common fusions that Feebas/Zapdos can beat 1v1 :

Hope this helps

[opal juniper]

Hmmmm

[spring girder]

what is the natdex format? is it IF with unadded pokemon?

[dull plaza]

Natdex includes all pokemon that exists yes

[weary burrow]

Is it ok to make a joke alt where i just add a picture of my budgie?

Probably not, right

If it accounts to similarity, colour pallet and Sprite size rules?

[mossy violet]

how did you end up in showdown general

[weary burrow]

Oops

Sry

[dusty delta]

is this just an art fusion game?

Or can you actually level and play with them?

[radiant rivet]

you can play with them

[gritty anvil]

The Showdown simulator (what this channel is for) lets you use whatever fusions you like to battle other people. You can even import your in-game team into the simulator, I believe.

[radiant rivet]

Imagine If golem got access to rapid spin as a fusion expert move (since it got spin in gen 2)
It would be a more physically bulky alternative to donphan which lacks knock

[hexed umbra]

The bulk isn't too different, and knock off is pretty important

[odd kiln]

yeah

[radiant rivet]

probably, but it would be nice to get more spinners

[weary burrow]

What moves would you recommend for him?

Doesn’t have to be legal

[radiant rivet]

acrobatics?

wick is kinda nimble as far as i know

[weary burrow]

Good idea

[radiant rivet]

oh and definetly close combat

you do not wanna throw hands with wick

[weary burrow]

Great

[obtuse shoal]

I realized the only thing I didn't like about ice types was that they were weak to rocks. So I added clefable to articuno and now it's all fine. Freeze dry moonblast ftw

[radiant rivet]

the bullet punch in my pocket

The steel types in my bag

[obtuse shoal]

the moltres in mine

[radiant rivet]

Phys def moltres?

eh probably

[obtuse shoal]

ye

regitres

[radiant rivet]

but like any special steel : Jiragrowth

will just eat you

wait le me calc this

[obtuse shoal]

is jiragrowth used physically or special

does it go iron head or flash cannon

[radiant rivet]

jira is most often a special wall

it can go for either special attacks or phys as its offensives are identical

[radiant rivet]

252+ Spa Choice specs Clefable Freeze dry vs 252 hp/ 252 + Spd Assualt vest jirachi 24 - 29 ( 5.9 - 7.1%)

your articuno is set up fodder

oh and before you ask Specs modest fire blast comes out to a whopping 45 percent max

[obtuse shoal]

since when does jiragrowth set up

[radiant rivet]

it uturns in the sweepers

or knocks you off

its" setting up" yout defeat

(You are right settup wasnt the best choice of words here)

[obtuse shoal]

I chose articuno because it has defog, for my sand team

and because freeze dry was wrecking havoc on it

[radiant rivet]

freeze dry is a good move

[obtuse shoal]

I used the freeze dry to counter the freeze dry

[radiant rivet]

just not with 95 special attack

not to mention what a horrible typing ice fairy is

[obtuse shoal]

would ice psychic have been better?

[radiant rivet]

Would you rather drink expired milk or eat spoiled meat?

they both suck ass

fairy is better tho

[obtuse shoal]

they're my magic guard options

And I need something for freeze dry

[radiant rivet]

Why do you need freeze dry?

[obtuse shoal]

I don't really need it, it's just a good move

[radiant rivet]

then drop it

[obtuse shoal]

I just need something against freeze dry

[radiant rivet]

Jiragrowth isnright there

with its av set

Unless you are facing like articuno nidoking it will tank any freeze dry you will ever see

maybe your team structure is flawed?

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah I can't really team build
https://pokepast.es/1a578261dc60e29a

clef is there for defog

[radiant rivet]

i will rewiev it, just later

[obtuse shoal]

also, the flying sandslash just helped me against sticky web

[supple idol]

Is there a tier list?

[odd kiln]

heres mine

imagine carbink is diancie and genesect is like b+

[hexed umbra]

What does Pinsir provide?

[odd kiln]

mold breaker rocks

pair with galv for a good setter

[hexed umbra]

I'm guessing Noivern has the niche of being the only primary flying type with some fusion?

[odd kiln]

with nidoking yes

[radiant rivet]

Ok so lets start with the good, Ttar, Regi and Zam are all fine, maybe zam would like energy ball over thunderbolt but that is up to you.

Now the bad : Gliscor runs an SD set, yet its stabs arent complementary (they both get walled by Grass) I would swap liquidation for knock, that way fewer mons want to switch in on you.
Toxic on mence is bizzare to say the least, it could punish a defensive wall over the long run, but your team isnt build to wait that long, as such knock of is prefered to immediatly ruin many defensive stables.

Oh and Articuno is a complette troll

[obtuse shoal]

I still have a hard time believing salamence is that high

[obtuse shoal]

there's no combination that doesn't get hit by thousand arrows + toxic

except some clef ones

the ones that are immune, poison and steel, take it from thousand arrows

that was the idea behind that

[radiant rivet]

the idea is good, but too slow acting, as defensive cores consist of regen cores that will pivot around often enough that toxic doesnt really hinder them

[obtuse shoal]

just saw an umbreloom, really interesting

[obtuse shoal]

so you think knock will throw off bulky waters more than toxic?

[radiant rivet]

Consider this, what are the most common defensive answers in the tier?

Regen AV pivots
Eviolite abusers

reducing the defense stat of a mon like clefclops by 50% plus the sandchip will be far worse than a simple toxic (which can also miss)

[obtuse shoal]

Clefclops might not get sand chip

Still, you get the eviolite out so it's good

[obtuse shoal]

Wouldn't too many knocks be counter productive?

[odd kiln]

idt the pod wants to be offensive you already have zam+slash

i can see the value of toxic bc you dont actually hit clefclops that hard 252+ Atk Sandslash Thousand Arrows vs. 252+ Atk Sandslash Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 105-124 (29.4 - 34.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

oops lefties

maybe its ok

[barren tartan]

Hey guys, ask those who have been playing for a long time. I'm in remix mode and with 3 badges, in the city of Lavandertown, what's a good fusion that has a lot of special attacks?

[radiant rivet]

any nidoking fusion : sheer force is busted

ok maybe not magicarp nidoking, but pretty much any special attacker fused with a nido will do fine

[opal blaze]

can regigigas be viable?

[odd kiln]

in ag its pretty good

one of the mons who can beat shed thanks to mold breaker, pairs well with arceus to give it espeed stab and high atk

[barren tartan]

A lover of the beloved Garchomp, Tell me how I can fuse it and make it peak power, I ask for 3 ideas, one with endmage Pokémon, one with mid Pokémon Game, and one with simple Pokémon to find

I saw that he is powerful, so the question is, what would be a good combination of powers for him to cause damage or tank and give damage?

[odd kiln]

uh idk ingame

endgame: jirachi/chomp
midgame: ferro/chomp
simple: idk

[obtuse shoal]

Yeah I thought the same honestly. Should I use knock off instead of sd

[hardy iron]

Hi, what are some good fusion with Moltres ? And how do you play him

I'm a newbie in strategy and I don't know what to search in a fusion with it

[radiant rivet]

Moltres has two roles :

1. hit hard with hurricane, so fusion like Pory Z or Politoad are best for this.
   2.Burn any physical attacker that dares touch it, because of flame body, fusions like jirachi or registeel give it a bettet defensive typing and as such more staying power.

[hardy iron]

Ty for the advices !

Okey I might be blind, but where do I find the list of banned mons ; I have in the pinned messages the banned items, abilities and mooves but not the mons

[odd kiln]

in ou the allowed mons are in builder but anything banned can be found in ag

[spring zenith]

Does eviolite require both to be able to evolve or only one

[vivid gate]

Only 1

[barren tartan]

Because lightning and thunder don't have Zaraora in infinity 😢

[low oak]

This is so peak

God + worse god

Aka Rowlet + Arceus

[obtuse shoal]

he looks very polite

and decidueye is a disappointment

[low oak]

Which one?

[obtuse shoal]

yes

[low oak]

Anyways rowlceus

Peak or not peak

[radiant rivet]

not peak, since it lacks a custom sprite

[unborn pine]

Rowlet ain't in the game :p

Snivy better be first 🥺

[obtuse shoal]

I'm thinking on making a team of special sweepers and see how far that takes me

[radiant rivet]

so an HO team?

but without the suicide lead?

in that case you will win till you run into a proper team

[obtuse shoal]

I'm guessing the suicide lead is a good idea then

Reminds me of aurora veil teams, how useful are those

[radiant rivet]

hail is hot ass

dual screens is an option tho

[hexed umbra]

Anaconja has used a hail stall team in the past

[radiant rivet]

Even they said hail was garbage, as far as I remember

[obtuse shoal]

I was thinking hail screens with offense

[odd kiln]

idr saying that

hail stall is not bad

veil is kinda mediocre bc you have to use delibird and it has trouble with other weathers but otherwise its around the same viability as dual screens imo

maybe a little less bc prank is better utility

[radiant rivet]

I apoligize about that, as you in fact said that hail was only good for stall since it lacked boosters

[odd kiln]

nw

[hexed umbra]

Doesn't hail also have Aurorus as an alternate setter? It's still bad but at least it isn't Delibird

[odd kiln]

it doesnt have veil

its also slower and doesnt have spikes/spin like delibird does

[hexed umbra]

Delibird doesn't get spikes in IF

[odd kiln]

oh oops i was using gren so it had that

[warm osprey]

makeing a broken 2v2 team

[obtuse shoal]

I feel like special attackers have free reign in this game, since Blissey is banned

[radiant rivet]

i wouldnt say that, as there are many good special walls out there

[obtuse shoal]

I feel like some quiver dancers are really hard to stop

[radiant rivet]

Specific examples?

I mean I guess Hymega can be a pain

[obtuse shoal]

Besides hymega

There was a guy running aggron gengar

[radiant rivet]

seems like easy Toxitar prey

maybe its harder to wall spa threats with lack of blissey but there a more proactive choices to be made

[obtuse shoal]

What if hippowdon was added

[radiant rivet]

we'd have a tankier sand setter

and probably some awesome sprites

as hippos are cute and deadly depending on the context

[obtuse shoal]

Speaking of tankier, how should ttar be treated in sand

It's good that it gets the spdef boost in sand but it's a rock type, it's bad by existing

Or you go dark

[radiant rivet]

both are valid in fusion

since ttar has amazing stats

And thx to fusion it might actually be tankier than hippowdown

because of the spdf boost

as normally Hippowdown is one of 2 weather setter that can recover HP.
(Take a guess who the other one is)

[radiant rivet]

in sand you definetly want to keep the rock typing so you dont take chip from your own sand

[obtuse shoal]

Does sand stream not make the setter immune?

[radiant rivet]

as a matter of fact no

same with hail

[obtuse shoal]

yeah just tested it

[obtuse shoal]

on one hand the bulk is useful, on the other I don't know what type is good to use it with

I also just had a clefable celebi fusion counter me

[radiant rivet]

rock flying for maximum longevity

[odd kiln]

rock grass is good rock flying/rock fairy are ok too

[obtuse shoal]

issue with rock is even if you're bulky, there's a lot you don't want to switch into

[odd kiln]

you can switch into neutral atks well

[obtuse shoal]

what can I do against celebi clef

with quiver dance and LoR

I guess it's vulnerable to steel, but a lot of times I don't use steel moves

[odd kiln]

click roar at worst

tyranitar clef or scyther can knock its lo

[obtuse shoal]

Damn, grass fairy is actually pretty good

Weak to fire, ice, flying, steel and poison

[odd kiln]

clefable mew is better btw it gets stab photon to threaten unaware

as well as fire coverage to hit jigrowth

[obtuse shoal]

Totally forgot this thing is countered by unaware

[obtuse shoal]

Would you say unaware is a must have on this meta so you can counter quiver dancers

[odd kiln]

uh kinda on balance teams

[obtuse shoal]

So pyuku to go against quiver dancers

[odd kiln]

naw pyuk is mid

its clef or quag

[obtuse shoal]

I want it for spdef, and clef is on magic guard duty

[lost galleon]

Clefable isn’t the only source of Magic Guard.

[odd kiln]

pyuk is not an effective spd donor bc it has low hp

[hexed umbra]

Imo quag and pyuk are both good, quagsire has a better movepool and pyuk has slightly more bulk with some fusions

[odd kiln]

pyuk has 0 utility

thats why i threw it into uu

that and you need to fuse it with a high hp mon and it doesnt give scald

which is a cardinal sin for a water mon

[hexed umbra]

I ran a Pyukumuku/Steelix before the recent batch of mons got added ~lurantis/entei), EQ/Toxic Spikes/Recover/Roar was great at stopping physical setup sweepers and entei, and spreading status to mons in the back

Nvm Quagsire is actually a tiny bit bulkier with physdef, I just wanted phasing + tspike

[odd kiln]

better mons out there who can tspike

quag offers twaves which prevents the opp from preserving their setup mon until your unaware is chipped enough as well as scald to burn some mold breaker mons

[obtuse shoal]

i don't know if quag is the right choice to send against celebi/clefable

maybe registeel clefable, but that one has a bunch of weaknesses

[radiant rivet]

it only has 2?

[obtuse shoal]

Ground, fire, and spikes

Granted, a lot of mons have weaknesses like that

[radiant rivet]

it is vulnerable to spikes yes, but it also has recovery so its not that bad

[obtuse shoal]

ok just saw a funny set with harvest shuckle, and rest lum

vulnerable to knock, but I didn't bring it with me

[radiant rivet]

you had a whole team without knock?

[radiant rivet]

dumb question : why was seismic toss distribution gutted?

I mean currently only 7 FE pokemon can learn the move in IF Dex OU and I would like to understand why this move in particular was takem away from so many

[hexed umbra]

Because Seismic Toss was a move tutor in FRLG, and there's no transfer moves

[radiant rivet]

ohhh that makes sense

[obtuse shoal]

I don't frequently find reasons to have knock

[radiant rivet]

one of the best moves in game that crippled many and has an insane risk vs reward balance

but you do you

[lethal flicker]

items are like the biggest game changers/deciders in competitive pokemon so a move that does good damage while being able to knock if off and ruining strategies is insanely good

[dire goblet]

So, for fun I was making golisopod fusions. I'm a fan of this one. Anyone have suggestions for other good ones?

[odd kiln]

middling pod fusion i fear

toxapex and gliscor the best pod fusions rn

[warm osprey]

my team so far for 2v2

[hexed umbra]

A lot of these mons don't seem to have a cohesive function or synergy with each other

[odd kiln]

i assume the idea is get shed to mimic entrainment then entrainment wg onto a burn up arcanine

dont get why its chople berry though

and also you probably just faked out or redirected or something

[pure breach]

Nothing you can do about redirection, but if you’re set on the strategy, Conja is right that Inner Focus would be nice on the Burn Up mon, and you can probably fuse Shed with a mon that learns entrainment, unless I’m missing some obscure mechanic with entrainment and wonder guard

[hexed umbra]

Entrainment's learnset is kinda terrible, but you could make it normal/ghost with Lopunny/Shedinja

[pure breach]

That sounds good, only one weakness is already huge

[weary spire]

Guys need help, my pokemon fusion keeps blinking/ flashing

How do I fix this

[pure breach]

is this in-game?

[weary spire]

Ye and also the game freezes from time to time

[pure breach]

This channel is specific to the Pokemon Showdown for IF, if you’re experiencing issues with Infinite Fusion itself you should head to #tech-support

[thorny eagle]

Is this working right now?

[crimson geyser]

How do I play this

I cant find it in the showdown gamemodes

[hexed umbra]

Pokeathlon, it's in the pins

[rugged plover]

Is there a banlist for IF Showdown OU and ubers? So far I only know that Huge Power and Wonder Guard are banned to AG, as well as moves like V-Create and Spore.

[odd kiln]

/tier ifdexou

[weary burrow]

Whats the standard regitres set?

[odd kiln]

hurricane defog roost uturn

[radiant rivet]

Regitres usually has roost and uturn, then the options are willow/roar/Rocks/STABs

[odd kiln]

some use flash cannon but idk who that hits

[radiant rivet]

i guess they just want a stab option

but i did see some hurricanes in rain teams

[odd kiln]

hurricane has higher bp and better offensive typing on top of a sometimes useful confusion

[radiant rivet]

but worse acc outside rain

[odd kiln]

simply hit

[radiant rivet]

how could i be so dumb

[odd kiln]

and really flash cannon isnt hitting anything well is it much worse to miss hurricane on some dudes water garchomp than hit flash cannon for like 20

[radiant rivet]

thx for the advice

yeah flash is worse then hurricane

but airslash tho

[chrome kiln]

Been climbing the ladder with screens it's pretty consistent

[radiant rivet]

a complete team style is usually better than a random collection of mons, yes

[chrome kiln]

[radiant rivet]

yes

[obtuse shoal]

I like regitres because it can stop a lot of physical pokemon with will o wisp and flame body. They start to get afraid of clicking uturn or using priority

So mine is wisp, roar, roost and rocks, or uturn if I have another setter

[odd kiln]

WORST SET ON TEAM

i fear

[obtuse shoal]

it's bad?

[odd kiln]

wisp roar roost rocks sounds terrible

[obtuse shoal]

Like, I understand that this is pretty much fishing for people who aren't using special attacks and poison heals and guts

it's also bad that since blissey is out, people don't really have an answer to all the special attacks besides, assault vest toxitar and a case by case basis

so the skarmbliss combo isn't really that viable

[odd kiln]

close enough

[obtuse shoal]

thanks for trying, but I don't think it's ready to be thrown at nidoking

[odd kiln]

naw it takes nothing

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Togekiss Moonblast vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ SpD Snorlax: 109-129 (23 - 27.2%) -- 50.1% chance to 4HKO

[hasty sleet]

hows this sand team?

[radiant rivet]

make jira spdf invested, pex def invested.

Give Zam volt over tbolt so it can keep up momentum and punish the opponent switching in their pursuit user. Also make it jolly so it doesnt auto lose to other zams.

oh and give hax a nature, probably adamant

[hasty sleet]

done

[hexed umbra]

Haxorus was changed to AV, was that on purpose?

[radiant rivet]

Oh right, lefties or life orb are preffered so you can actually click SD

[hasty sleet]

no accident

[hexed umbra]

It still has SD

[obtuse shoal]

I've had a team like that ruined by freeze dry

Also, the sandslash is swords dance assault vest

Also there were times when making sandslash flying saved my life because he was immune to spikes and sticky web

[radiant rivet]

that just seems like fine tuning the team (besides the AV Sd stuff)

I do wonder what freeze dry fusion it was.
Do you happen to remember?

[obtuse shoal]

It was articuno kyurem

[hasty sleet]

I ment no i put AV on it by accident

[radiant rivet]

how come you didnt just Sack one mon to then just Ohko it with Hax outrage in Sand?

[obtuse shoal]

They had regitres

[radiant rivet]

You have a zam

[obtuse shoal]

I couldn't risk an outrage into regitres

And again, if articuno comes in on gliscor, who do you switch to

[radiant rivet]

you sack since you arent playing stall and need to be willing to sack mons.
or take the risk with jira.
can Flamethrower even K.O a jira from full?

[true shoal]

Hi!! How can build a fusion team?! And what simulator? Thanks

[radiant rivet]

https://play.pokeathlon.com

is the website and on there you will find the "teambuilder button"

[true shoal]

Yes but there are few fusions

[radiant rivet]

explain what you mean?

[true shoal]

I find now maybe 🤔

[radiant rivet]

is it a format issue?

[true shoal]

How schoose for fusion sorry for my English.

For now

[radiant rivet]

do you see where it says "gen9 gen 1 Poa dex OU"

click on that, and then select IF

[odd kiln]

doesnt jigrowth just wall

articuno kyurem doesnt get fire coverage

[radiant rivet]

kyurem doesnt learn fire moves?

[odd kiln]

no

its steel coverage is ep and focus blast

[long isle]

does the Red Orb do anything for groudon fusions

[odd kiln]

yes it primal reverts it

[radiant rivet]

so if the fusion has drought as the ability it becomes desolate land, and the new fusion will have its Base stats increased as if it was a fusion between "pokemon of choice" and Primal groudon?

[delicate gull]

Has anyone even tested that in ND yet

[odd kiln]

yes i have

[odd kiln]

correct except it doesnt have to be drought it can be any abil

[weary burrow]

https://pokepast.es/32df58770cf9d0e6 i found the funny

[odd kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-skeleton-fall-apart-skeleton-burst-pop-skeleton-exploding-gif-25434496

[obtuse shoal]

are offensive types with immunities valid for offense ?

ghost, electric, fighting

Every time I click them I hope they don't switch their specific pokemon in

[hexed umbra]

Of course, thats no different to regular pokemon

Dragapult is one of the best pokemon in Sword/Shield and both of its types have immunities

[lost galleon]

Dragon does not have immunities though?

Or are you saying that ghost is so good that it counts twice?

[simple thistle]

is no guard banned or ohko moves

[radiant rivet]

ohko always has been always will be

[radiant rivet]

I mean ghost does give two immunities so it kind of does?

[odd kiln]

they mean that ghost and dragon have types that are immune to it

offensive ghosts/electrics/fightings mainly suffer in if bc their donors are p bad (besides melop and to a lesser extent gengar)

[hexed umbra]

Theres also Mismagius for offensive ghosts

[obtuse shoal]

I mean it has a lot of things going for it.
Faster than most scarfs, good bp attacks, big movepool, no pursuit

Meanwhile here garchomp gets ddance and it's practically UU

[radiant rivet]

I mean this metagame is has such strong powercreep that just DD chomp isnt enough

I cant think of a single staple fusion that wouldnt rampage through SV ou

[obtuse shoal]

Snorcor maybe. Because it can't deal with corv

[radiant rivet]

Have you seen this things bulk?
And a plus 6 Stab Facade will remove any non ghost

[obtuse shoal]

Iron press is a thing

[obtuse shoal]

But yeah I noticed that in a casual play through

Bulbasaur and pidgey won't help much

Even suicune doesn't do too much

The bar right now for a water type is basically above toxapex

[obtuse shoal]

alright had a really fun game with sutvc
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=illusion911-sutvc-1738355342811

[radiant rivet]

it is fun fighting you

[obtuse shoal]

yeah I feel like other people never get to trigger your 3rd and 4th callbacks

Like I'm slowly dwiddling down your clef here with burns and then your just use heal bell

but the way you're able to play is also pretty crazy
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=sutvc-illusion911-1738357333193

Xatu stopping rocks enables clef so hard

and being able to break you a few times is pretty different from when I wasn't able to put a dent

[obtuse shoal]

that sandslash clef mindgame was specifically crazy
Slash can deal with xatu using arrows and clef using toxic, and it has a lum berry
Clef can deal with slash by using wisp, but doesn't want to eat a toxic

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=nightmare17354-illusion911-1738360839463
this wouldn't be the first time I lose to someone setting up because I can't phase it anymore

[radiant rivet]

I mean that player was watching our match so they knew what you had.

then again mewfable is one of the best wallbreakers and win conditions in the tier, so dont feel bad about it

[radiant rivet]

honestly few people challenge me to a rematch since they hate fighting stall, and my teams are kinda Bs.
With all the regen, Scald, Hazards, Magic bounce etc.

[obtuse shoal]

for me it's the combo of magic bounce, unaware, and then heal bell

It's hard to stack spikes, toxic, set up or seed you

so the puzzle there is "how do I break this guy's stall"

[radiant rivet]

meanwhile I try to be unbreakable (which isnt possible)

Tho I did drop Healbell since it means I can then slot in Gliscor on my team acting as a great knock absorber

[obtuse shoal]

and I changed celebi to scyther with knock

what do you do against knock turn1

against sand

[radiant rivet]

protect with gliscor
or set up my on rocks with xatu while you hit yourself on my Rocky helmet.

and If I wasnt stalling Id be just accepting the knock and take a progressive action

And If for some reason I dont have protect on or gliscor I usually dedicate my Pexpod to knock absorbing and scald your bum/ set up spikes

[radiant rivet]

I have to ask, whats with the rise of No guard sleep fusions?

Smeargle doublade, Crobat machamp/Golurk.
all of them are so incredibly gimmicky

The only one I can respect is Melo/Lycan but the others?
What caused their sudden spike in Popularity?
I would say that in this meta of regen as as the eye can see as well as guts and poison heal on every corner, sleep wouldnt be impact full enough to warant it sudden rise in usage.

It is simply a popular noob trap like electrify or is the meta changing?

[whole cosmos]

@radiant rivet Hey

[radiant rivet]

hi

[whole cosmos]

What are some strong fusions to fuse Greninja with?

[radiant rivet]

Greninja gengar once eliminated me from a tour so theres that

it was a specs set in rain locking in thunder

[radiant rivet]

why ask me in particular?

[whole cosmos]

What

[whole cosmos]

Bc your here and play fusion comp.

[radiant rivet]

you know fair enough

[whole cosmos]

Any that are like winning not losing?

Also you say it got you eliminated as if it pulled an Ash Charizard

[radiant rivet]

Oh not at all greninja gengar is a good fusion.
Neither gimmicky nor skilless.

[whole cosmos]

Alright I was considering it.

[radiant rivet]

I fought against it

[whole cosmos]

I think I will use it for now then later on use Kyogre Greninja

Also yes I asked this specifically for my playthrough

Im on expert mode bc Im cool

sadly the gym leaders cheat a lot

and use all kinds of types

anything but their own

[radiant rivet]

You never said this was for playthough

[whole cosmos]

Well I did now

[radiant rivet]

it thought you meant for ladder

[whole cosmos]

How come it is gen 7 but no ash gren

[radiant rivet]

I mean in that case get reshiram

no megas at all exist in IF

except for the primals

[whole cosmos]

Ah yes I just beat Lt Surge and now I am going to get this.

Easily

[whole cosmos]

😭bruh

[radiant rivet]

how am I supposed to know where you are ingame atm

[whole cosmos]

Use super powers

everyone does it nowadays smh

[radiant rivet]

whats yours?

[whole cosmos]

greninja

[radiant rivet]

Greninja is your superpower?

[whole cosmos]

Greninja

[radiant rivet]

Greninja

[whole cosmos]

Greninja

[radiant rivet]

more of a toxapex person

[whole cosmos]

Stub your toe

Hope your pillow is warm

[radiant rivet]

well it is quite cold, so I would enjoy a warm pillow

thx

but since this convo is no longer about smogon IF nor even IF there is no need to continue it. at least here

[whole cosmos]

I hope it is whatever you dont like then

[radiant rivet]

what has toxapex done to you?
Its just cute

it doenst even hit hard

[whole cosmos]

@radiant rivet hey is there any special attack boosting abilities?

[radiant rivet]

flare boost.
Signature of driftblim also reshiram gets it

[whole cosmos]

Hows it work?

[radiant rivet]

If you are burned you get a 50% increase in Spa

[whole cosmos]

O

[radiant rivet]

so choice specs but fire instead of choice

[whole cosmos]

That literally sucks 😭

If you could use choice specs and somehow burn yourself then it could be good

[radiant rivet]

honestly paying like 6 % of your max hp every turn for a 50% boost in power is a very good deal

not like you cant force burn yourself with flame orb

[whole cosmos]

Specs 😎

Protean is far better anyways

I was looking for the special attack version of huge power

[odd thorn]

Solar Power gives you x1.5 SpAtk (at the cost of also making you lose 1/8th of your HP every turn) during Harsh Sunlight

Combine that with specs and a STAB fire move for some ridiculous damage

[radiant rivet]

Forgot about that one.
Thx for listing it.

[odd kiln]

sf is basically spa boosting

as is protean

[radiant rivet]

both boost physical attacks as well.
If we are talking purely special attacks, then it should be limited to flare boost and solar power.
(Also Whatever magernas ability is called and grimneigh)

[low basalt]

Wait how would that even work isn't it a fire type

[hexed umbra]

You can use it as a dragon fusion

[low basalt]

Oh yeah that's true lmao I forgot about that

[obtuse shoal]

and if you get oblivion wing it's just a win

[tepid hawk]

Futs is there pvp in infinite fusion

[lost galleon]

Reshiram has Flare Boost?! But Reshiram is a fire type.

[radiant rivet]

the most common solar fusion doesnt get oblivion wing.
Also running Solar power means no tinted lense.

[obtuse shoal]

Oh I thought it was about flare boost and drifblim

[soft willow]

Guys

[radiant rivet]

Do you require assistance?

[soft willow]

No

[radiant rivet]

ok then.

[obtuse shoal]

not even worried
https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=illusion911-kenryusakiif-1738613071286

[radiant rivet]

this was certainly a game.

Also that mag is evil

Screw evil its just annoying

[obtuse shoal]

that mag is weird

it's magnezone so trapping and high spatk, and it's got scyther's quiver dance

[radiant rivet]

But it didnt trap, did it?
It was technican

Also that airslash flinch on your zam would have had me seething in rage

[obtuse shoal]

I felt like it's my fault because quiver dancers keep annoying me

[radiant rivet]

this is why we run priority or unaware

[odd kiln]

it is partially your fault for not clicking recovery on ttar

also no stab on ttar means you dont threaten setup

[radiant rivet]

ttar does suffer from 4mss.

knock uturn rocks roost and Stab just cannot fit

at once

[odd kiln]

simply put hazards on the gliscor

or remove the articuno for something good

theres no reason for gliscor to be running 3 atks or for the articuno to be there

btw this is one of the prime exampels of hurricane regitres being able to help you out bc you could have easily ohkod the sandslash as it misplayed sd

but instead you have to wisp and roar it out

[obtuse shoal]

articuno is there for defog

it also let me resist freeze dry

[hexed umbra]

What viable freeze dry mons are there in the tier?

Because chances are there's a better defensive typing than part ice

[lost galleon]

If you need to resist ice, have you considered using a steel or fire type?

Ice hasn’t been a useful defensive type since freeze fishing stopped being a meta relevant strategy

You know, when Ruby and Sapphire came out

And even over 20 years ago it was a pretty niche use case

[hexed umbra]

There was that SV OU stall team that used Tera Ice Hydrapple, it used tera ice defensively (with tera blast though)

It's not even regenerator it's sticky hold for boots

[radiant rivet]

I think it was because Hydrapple with tera Ice couldnt be touched by the knockers Weavile and Meowscarada who would murder Gliscor with Triple axel.
And any knocker that Hydrapple would lose to, Gliscor would stop dead in their tracks.

[obtuse shoal]

I'm going articuno clefable thanks to magic guard not proccing stealth rocks

a thing about fire and steel though is that they're weak to ground

but ice is not

so it's a pretty neutral type defensively

[obtuse shoal]

I had a battle where a water type wouldn't have worked, and my best steel to resist it was neutral to ice

[radiant rivet]

you resist : ice dark bug
you are weak to : fire, steel, poison,rock.
and you are immune to dragon.
honestly does seem like a bad defensive profile.

[odd kiln]

i think youre overreacting to freeze dry its not that good

[obtuse shoal]

Ok that's fair. What should I replace it with? I need something for hazards and to deal with ice because my team is very ice weak

[radiant rivet]

The best spinner in the tier is slowphan with max spdf and a AV attached allowing it to take an ice beam from even Chandeking.

Yes its freeze dry weak, freeze dry is rare, very rare so it evens out

you could also drop rocks on scyther and have it instead run defog.

Then you are just looking for a rocker instead

[obtuse shoal]

Scyther is weak to rocks though

[radiant rivet]

does your team even really need hazard removal?

With so many members resisting rocks and being immune to spikes, wouldnt it be better to instead slot something in that furthers your offensive prowess?

[obtuse shoal]

huh, I didn't think about that

[radiant rivet]

or you could give gliscor defog

alongside roost scald and uturn

or knock

[obtuse shoal]

That's actually valid

I'd say aqua jet. Priority has saved me a few times, even if it's just 2%

And then what would I replace it

The articuno

[obtuse shoal]

huh, I saw whimsicott in Ru

It's a fairy type prankster with some really good moves

also, lurantis kommo-o seems weirdly fitting, since kommo-o has a lot of moves that lower its stats, like clanging scales, super power and close combat

[radiant rivet]

the problem is its speed.
and typing

not to mention if you want a grass fighting type fusion.
Melo P is right there

[obtuse shoal]

yeah, but kommo-o has more rounded stats

better spdef and all that

[radiant rivet]

you are a countrary sweeper you need to hit hard

and fast

otherwise all the unawares and spectral thiefs will just end you

as such kommos bulk is useless

[obtuse shoal]

ah yeah, I didn't think about those

[hardy iron]

What are some good spectral thief fusion ?

[radiant rivet]

clef, salamence

probably missing a lot

doublades biggest weakness is its predicatbility

[hardy iron]

So doublade+salamence ?

[radiant rivet]

jep.
Mence as the head
Blade as the body
give it an eviolite
and intimidate as an ability.

Congrats any physical attacker now does nothing to you.

ok 95 % do nothing to you

[hardy iron]

Yeah it seems very strong indeed

[radiant rivet]

honestly not that good

its suffers from longevity issues

takes every bit of hazard chip and is vulnerable to all status.

Clefblade has magic guard which removes these issues

[hardy iron]

Even with access to Roost ?

I am under the impression that 50% of mons are "better with Clef" xD

[radiant rivet]

Well longevity means different things here in regen land

and yes clef is probably the best fusion partner in this metagame

[glossy kestrel]

Did something happen to the free for all option the infinite fusion showdown?

[pure breach]

It's still there, under Infinite Fusion Extras. it's challenge-only which means you can't ladder with it, but you can challenge someone who wants to play

[glossy kestrel]

Ok thank you for that, me and my buddies were wondering what happened to it

[obtuse shoal]

yeah magic guard is peak. immune to sandstorm chip, immune to toxic, sandstorm chip, spikes, and life orb and stealth rock and leech seed

and while other magic guards are psychic types, clef is fairy

[odd kiln]

i disagree i think clefblade is weaker than salablade because of the much lower def

mg is w/e honestly unaware is much better

[radiant rivet]

valid take, i just prefer magic guards increased longevity over intimidate imediate impact

as in really really really long games mence blade falters where Clefblade/Slash does not

[odd kiln]

you can give your team a status absorber through ph and have good hazard control to make up for that

using clef for mg with doublade is a missed opportunity imo

[radiant rivet]

using a non Magic guard status absorber makes a team unable to run heal bell.
But I can agree that Clefblade isnt the most optimal pick.
Clefslash however does have its value