showdown-general

[pure breach]

https://tenor.com/view/based-uh-hello-based-department-based-department-american-psycho-patrick-bateman-gif-22458382

[frigid frost]

the only dms i dont accept are death threats and otherwise crazy people

but i cant really police that until they get to the dming me part

but if you intended on dming me death threats plz dont thanks

[solar kettle]

24 is a lot tho

at that point u may as well just be playing normal OU, no?

[vivid junco]

Just are you able to talk with me in dm's. Ima brb for a bit bc gotta get home from school

[solar kettle]

in the draft leagues I played even with 10 mons it lead to quite a bunch of teams having dedicated benchwarmers

[frigid frost]

for a normal draft yes 24 is far too many but fusions change a lot so

[pure breach]

especially with unlimited fusing

[frigid frost]

ye send it

[vivid junco]

Already did

Check dm's ehen free

[frigid frost]

not unlimited fwiw

[frigid frost]

will do, just about to drive home from work

[solar kettle]

fusions means u need at min 12 to fill a team, but those 12 already give u hella diversity, so Id say 14 is perfectly fine

btw how do triples work? extra slot so everyone can get a triple to be all quirked up?

tho 14 would be more of a min

the equivalent to having 10 mons in standard Ig would be 20

[frigid frost]

yep, but also consider the other rules of the draft league im currently doing and you'll realize why 24 ends up being pretty reasonable 😅

i didnt have any particular rules in my mind for triple fusions, my friends hate em so we just chose to not use them, we could call them free use?

i was gonna say with 8 people i was gonna say around 14-16 pokemon per person is probably what we're looking at.

also worth noting is the if dex is pretty shallow so

[solar kettle]

personally I feel like itd be cool for everyone to have 1, thats how Im used to megas working

[pure breach]

there's less triples than megas tho

definitely far less balanced ones at least

[frigid frost]

how many of the not ubers triples are there?

i can only think of 6

[solar kettle]

OU+UU is 7

[pure breach]

7 not counting NFE

[frigid frost]

oh right regitrio was the one i was missing

[solar kettle]

being Celemewchi, Regitrio, Swamptiliken, Torteneon, Zapmolticuno, Megaligasion

[frigid frost]

always forget him because he wasn't in the game when i played

will have to ponder on it. we have 7 people atm so if we end up there everyone can get 1 lol

[solar kettle]

its prolly fine with the point system cuz NFEs can just cost less points

[vivid junco]

Ill be down

Give me some experiance

[frigid frost]

alright, 8 people it is then

[frigid frost]

that works too, ye

ill have to think on this when i actually get home

[solar kettle]

just noticed, forgot Venustoizard

[frigid frost]

its ok you counted correctly at least LOL

[solar kettle]

this be all the triples

minus the Ubers is 15 total

[tribal trellis]

I would also be down to join if we get even people

This is cool and seems like even more people are going to join

Should be done more in general i think

[tribal trellis]

We can also help on the draft btw

No need to do it alone

Or if you really want

[pure breach]

sounds to me

like we should start an IF draft

[solar kettle]

isnt that what were doing?

[tribal trellis]

Yea

[tribal trellis]

Kinda

But it's not dunscy or yoshi

[pure breach]

yeah sorry I meant like an official one

[tribal trellis]

Just a guy who did 1 with friends and said he would be down to do it on the server as well

[pure breach]

yeah

obviously y'all should keep doing them

[tribal trellis]

Yep

[pure breach]

it's a great way to keep playing

[tribal trellis]

Yea it's just really nice for everyone

[slender abyss]

Will there be UU, RU, and NU as gamemodes?

And Ubers as well

[tribal trellis]

We didn't even play it with

But someday i guess if it's popular enough

Idk

[solar kettle]

I think theyd be cool as challenge modes, but I feel like considering the current ladders are already kinda dead for 90% of the day thatd just split em up more

[frigid frost]

yeah i think uu / ru / so on is the last thing we need tbh

[slender abyss]

If they advertise the showdown for IF and make a seperate server for it then maybe it'll work

[tribal trellis]

Idk if another server

But i don't think all of the server knows about it

[frigid frost]

i am beginning to think we should figure out what a reasonable amount of pokemon is, if 10 people is doable though im down

natdex also might just be like

a necessity at somepoint

[solar kettle]

Ima vote 15+a Triple

[frigid frost]

the if dex is fairly shallow

[tribal trellis]

It's also possible to do the point format with more than needed

[solar kettle]

that just means u gotta lower the point budget innit

[slender abyss]

Another server is a stretch but they should definitely advertise it better

[frigid frost]

at least imo, im just like, a person 👻

[tribal trellis]

Idk it will take a bit of thinking

[pure breach]

yeah I don't think any advertising has taken place at all

y'all should tell your friends

[slender abyss]

Oen thing you should ask is if you can add a link to the IF launcher

Like directly to the showdown

As a permanent announcement

[frigid frost]

also i will say despite having been in this server forever and checking it from time to time just to see updates on the game i had no idea there was showdown til i saw blunder post about it

[slender abyss]

Also I don't even know how to access the IF showdown

I just use the announcement to access it

[pure breach]

there was an announcement about it

[pure breach]

it's also on the topic of this channel at the top

but I get your point

all of you

[slender abyss]

Ahh it's pinned in this channel

That's nice to know

Definitely though the best way to improve the player count of the showdown is to advertise it on the IF launcher

Most people that play infinite fusion either aren't in the discord or never check the channels

Especially because the showdown channel is at the very bottom

[tribal trellis]

I found it when searching channels to add to the ones i can see

So totally random

[frigid frost]

yea i think i just missed the announcement and i wasnt really super interested in discussing in the discord before the showdown server so i just never looked at the channels to add list

[pure breach]

I don't think they pinged anyone in it, I think it was a silent announcement

[frigid frost]

o thatd do it lol

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/758710788457758750/1124172983494262864/pandatantrum.gif

[pure breach]

@wispy ember you think we can get this to go on the launcher?

might bring in a few more people who just don't know about it

the announcement got buried by other announcements, so people who just haven't checked in a week have like no way of knowing this thing exists at all

I know you're not in charge of this, just polling

[slender abyss]

Making a pinned message on Reddit would be good too

About the IF showdown

[wispy ember]

if you ask nicely, most likely

[wispy ember]

^this as well

gotta ask frog

[pure breach]

Hmm

I’ll propose something tomorrow then

[runic oak]

This is some great work right here

[white oar]

insanity

[vivid junco]

I have a doc. Was doing teiring but kinda got f'ed over by move Expert . Was waiting for yoshie to finish all the changes for that first.. Which im pretty sure is done now

[warped veldt]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=gammares-lexjo12345-1701212081072
Become content.

[wispy ember]

that person plays weird

have played against them a few times

their instant move picks are

@thick axle I see you liked my espeon/dusclops

[thick axle]

[opal fiber]

Now that meloetta pirouette is available outside of battle

How does this affect the metagame

And would you still need to at least have relic song in your movepool to use pirouette form

[warped veldt]

I think her forms are separate?

I mean, she can probably switch with Relic Song, but you can probably use Pirouette form at the start.

Pirouette passes great Atk, Spd and Serene Grace so she's probably gonna be very good.

Normal has pretty good SpDef and can pass Normal typing so she can do some good fusions too

[steep plover]

Pirouette would be very strong, but I still don't know about Aria

[frigid frost]

aria would be a decent boomburst user for noivern fusions

[warped veldt]

The third one!

I love Boomburst

[steep plover]

me running Melocor once Snorlax gets the 🔨:

[warped veldt]

Tbh I'd like if Boomburst was banned

Noivern still has Hyper Voice so all it would do would just lower its damage a bit.

[wispy ember]

if boomburst gets banned, noivern is out of the meta

[warped veldt]

Damn

[wispy ember]

and tbh, I wouldnt mind at all

[steep plover]

yeah Noivern is the Boomburst bot

[wispy ember]

you do not run Noivern for anything but boomburst

[warped veldt]

Noivern still has an amazing Spd and SpAtk stats tho

[steep plover]

speed is always good but spa is going to be less relevant as a body

[warped veldt]

I just think Boomburst botting is a bit too strong.

[wispy ember]

yeah

noivern without boomburst is not something people would use

[warped veldt]

Oh well

[wispy ember]

there are shrimply better alternatives to it

[elfin hazel]

anyone know a counter against shell smash/spore mewzumarill

[wispy ember]

since that's AG

imposter, unaware, prankster haze

[elfin hazel]

o true

627 defense also works

[wispy ember]

[warped veldt]

Make it a grass type for Spore immunity lol

AG is silly

[wispy ember]

the only thing that I haven't found a counterplay to yet

is snorlax/gliscor

[warped veldt]

woh

Me too

[wispy ember]

but am talking OU terms

[warped veldt]

I found one and I STRUGGLED

[solar kettle]

AG allows me to just run 5 dittos and call it a day, its incredible

[warped veldt]

Couldn't even kill it with Choice Specs Ice Beam

[steep plover]

the counterplay is suspecting Gliscor

[elfin hazel]

oh dang that a good matchup, bulky and immune to spectral thief

[wispy ember]

it can live pixilate boomburst

[warped veldt]

Bruh

[wispy ember]

which is insane to me

[warped veldt]

The real counterplay!

We found it!

[wispy ember]

I meant that it can survive one

on a clean switch with full hp

your noivern dies to facade

you do get the damage on it but

it's still on the field

[solar kettle]

roaring it out till its the last mon left, then 1v1ing it with my own snorlax/gliscor and cleaning it with noivern worked out well for me so far

[elfin hazel]

🤔 trick while holding anti poison berry

pecha berry

[wispy ember]

The best counter to it, is itself

[warped veldt]

yeah countering a mon with the same mon that seems like the definition of balance

Gen 1 Snorlax type beat

[steep plover]

I literally built my team with 5 mons that can immediately ruin it with status/knock off

[wispy ember]

I am still salty that imposter was banned from OU

[solar kettle]

tbf its not the counter, its the cleaner effectively

[steep plover]

when I see snorcor I start spamming knock into everything

[warped veldt]

Don't worry Millan. You have Illusion for the funnies.

[wispy ember]

[vivid junco]

it needed to be in nat dex lol

[solar kettle]

the counter I use is an unaware Pyuku-Wailord

[wispy ember]

that I am aware, but natdex should not influence IFdex

as those are 2 completely seperate metas

[steep plover]

and yeah a really heavy physdef unaware actually works vs it

[vivid junco]

was it banned in if dex?

[wispy ember]

yes

[vivid junco]

wasn't last time I checked

[solar kettle]

was last time I checked

[vivid junco]

oh what do you know

[solar kettle]

idk why tbh

[warped veldt]

No in this house

[wispy ember]

it completely ruined one of my teams

[vivid junco]

kek

[warped veldt]

Because copying one fusion is cheating or smth

[wispy ember]

R.I.P. Ou v13

you will be missed

[warped veldt]

Idk same reason why Ditto is in Ubers

[solar kettle]

https://pokepast.es/86e9947fd8722890 it killed this team for me

[wispy ember]

currently on v16

[solar kettle]

Im still on MkIVb

[warped veldt]

Imposter + Choice Scarf would be omnipresent

Plus you could give Ditto a good HP stat

[wispy ember]

yeah, that's the point

iirc the reason was quick powder

why? god knows

[warped veldt]

Like.... Snorlax/Ditto.

[wispy ember]

maybe it still worked in fusions

as Eviolite did as well

[warped veldt]

o no

[wispy ember]

cant use it no more so here

yes, it did work

[warped veldt]

Crimes

[warped veldt]

I can see why it's banned now

[wispy ember]

it was beautiful

and yet, they took it from me

[warped veldt]

"loses to V-Create"

Clorophyll V-Create is scary.

[solar kettle]

it was a bit of a problem

[wispy ember]

just a smidge

[steep plover]

the reason I first came here was to spam mono ditto fusions

[warped veldt]

Get on AG

[steep plover]

I did

[warped veldt]

👍

[steep plover]

then people started getting annoyed at me and I started building real teams haha

[wispy ember]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1087471193696772156/1104551770769862806/Screenshot_2023-05-07_01-34-07.gif

[solar kettle]

I did the opposite

[warped veldt]

You're learning teambuilding BY FORCE

[solar mortar]

Water absorb fire ground types

[warped veldt]

Entei/Quagsire

[wispy ember]

we ball

[warped veldt]

I love Metronome

Wait is Metronome a thing in IF

I can't recall

[wispy ember]

yes

why wouldnt it

[warped veldt]

I dunno

Game's weird

[steep plover]

let's have metronome battles!

(the meta degenerates into Dusknoir + Toxapex fusions)

[warped veldt]

I miss Quiver Dance on Oricorios tho

I love the birds, but without it they feel terrible

[solar mortar]

HMMM

I want to make a serene grave Pokémon with really high chance moves like needle arm

[steep plover]

speaking of quiver dance, is Oblivion Wing's base power actually 80?

[warped veldt]

Lemme guess

[steep plover]

every time I face Hymega it feels like it's 120 lol

[wispy ember]

I think so

yeah

80bp

@steep plover your mono-ditto made someone rage quit

[warped veldt]

STAB + Hydreigon SpAtk do be doing damage

and healing at the same time

[wispy ember]

ok, this was a bad idea

[steep plover]

eventually people started quitting on preview

[wispy ember]

Love it

[warped veldt]

cowards

[wispy ember]

The funniest shit

would be meeting a mono ditto

coz tf you gonna do

[warped veldt]

If you're not doing silly things on AG, what are you doing?

[steep plover]

right haha

the way you screw mono ditto is exploitable wall into offensive mon that can hit itself super effectively

[warped veldt]

I guess just like the real Showdown, it's for legendary fusion spammers

Can't wait for Ubers

[steep plover]

or gliscor

[wispy ember]

wait, minimize is legal in AG

[warped veldt]

So is Double Team

and Simple

and anything on the book

Simple Tail Glow time

[steep plover]

someone made a Doraemon sprite for Azumarill + Slaking, pretty funny

[fast blade]

Reshiram with simple tail glow is a thing lol

[elfin hazel]

new meta?

[wispy ember]

we ball

easy points

[elfin hazel]

[wispy ember]

WHY IS IT WORKING

[elfin hazel]

they keep forfeiting

btw i think people are stealing my giratina slaking build

[fast blade]

You think you invented giratina/Slaking?

[elfin hazel]

no

but i see people with the exact same moveset

[steep plover]

it's always worth it to have a phazer among your imposter bots

munchlax/ditto works well enough

[solar mortar]

Quick powder ditto fusion?

I was thinking it could easily be a sweeper but I can’t find anything not in Ubers that can balance dittos poor stats

[fast blade]

What was your moveset?

[solar mortar]

Maybe speedy support?

[elfin hazel]

bulk up, spectral thief,bodyslam, slack off

[fast blade]

Yeah that moveset is literally in the game

It's the final boss battle in the endgame challenge

Or at least it was until it was swapped out for Regigigas

[elfin hazel]

dayum i came up with such a good moveset that its already added

[fast blade]

Lol

[solar mortar]

Speedy support, unless y’all think I should replace something with transform?

[elfin hazel]

why is it part ditto

[solar mortar]

Quick powder

Double speed

[elfin hazel]

oh

so just better choice scarf

[wispy ember]

what have you done

why did you teach me this

[dull plaza]

@wispy ember gg lmao

[wispy ember]

gg

[wispy ember]

we gotta take turns when to ladder climb or smth

I have had my fun for today, feel free to annoy people

[median thunder]

has blunder played at all yet 😵‍💫

[frigid frost]

https://fxtwitter.com/Thunderblunder7/status/1726046388671205468?s=20

this was the post that got me here lol

[median thunder]

tinted lens means u cant resist it

that's why it feels like it's always 1bing

agency

[dull plaza]

Oh hey gg on that battle

[median thunder]

aero gets rocks

and defog

[fast blade]

Pirouette form insta ban

[fast blade]

I mean it was just created very recently as far as I'm aware. At least assuming it started with the announcement

[odd kiln]

i dont see the value in very fast defog

[solar mortar]

I do

I think

No i don’t

[vivid junco]

played 2 games and hasn't since

[solar mortar]

I think I might play Gen 9 some

[opal fiber]

If it needs to have Relic Song in it's movepool to access P form I don't think it needs a ban

Cuz essentially only having 3 moves is a very big restriction tbf

[fast blade]

I don't think that's the case though if they're just treating it as another form.

How could you have another form like that? You talk to the move deleter and now your pokemon isn't that form anymore?

[opal fiber]

Probably would work like Keldeo

Where you need Secret Sword in it's movepool to change to Resolute form

[median thunder]

everyone get in

tourney on :)

[vivid junco]

Tournament happening in 20 minutes if you guys wanna join

[fast blade]

What format?

[vivid junco]

if dex

[fast blade]

Lol which one?

Not specific enough

[vivid junco]

ou

[frigid frost]

hmmmm

im tempted

[vivid junco]

do it

[frigid frost]

if i feel less sleepy in a sec here i will

but i do not know

[median thunder]

it's about to start dee

[frigid frost]

yeah im too sleepy from work

😭

ty though

[hoary canopy]

six years after I theorized this gimmick, it works

[odd kiln]

I Dont Believe You

[solar mortar]

I don’t believe you (in lowercase)

[hoary canopy]

Transform when they try to set up on you, copying their boosts. Your high hp allows you to win the resulting trade

[white oar]

that's

exceptionally specific

also speed ties

[thick axle]

I can now go to sleep

[frigid frost]

grats catsoup

was fun to watch

[fast blade]

Anaconja lost?????

[inner jasper]

Congrats!

[opal fiber]

im guessing the new mon (singular) wont be added to IF dex until the update comes out

[odd kiln]

i used a memey double band team

[hoary canopy]

I dream of a world where Venustoizard can learn Hydro Steam

[astral yoke]

It's a gen 9 move... so never

I wish it could learn it since i run Venutoisezard on my Sun team... but yeah... never

[unborn pine]

This tournament was when it was 3 am for me?

[odd kiln]

skill issue

[warped veldt]

Just live in a better timezone ez

Happened at 2 AM for me

[unborn pine]

i need to keep a consistent sleep schedule so i can actually be productive when it's day

[thick axle]

A shame, at least maybe you can give a mon steam eruption? If it’s water type and it learns eruption

[odd kiln]

that doesnt help it bc it wants to be used on sun

[steep plover]

hydro steam moment

[tribal trellis]

In case anyone missed this, we are doing a draft and still wondering if anyone is interested

[steep plover]

when will it happen?

[tribal trellis]

Trying to find people rn

Still need to figure out the format

So need to do the draft format with known number of players than decide when

Later on this week tho in general

If you want to join mabye we can lock 10

Will see

[verbal pine]

Could I join?

[tribal trellis]

Sure

Let me add you

[opal fiber]

I wonder what a PIF BH (balanced hackmons) gamemode would be like

[warped veldt]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=gammares-modrift63-1701257474271

Local Res has worst time ever (fights a stall team)

[fast blade]

I'm gonna start advertising this meta on reddit or something, we need more players this meta could be so fun but now you just play the same like 3 people over and over

[opal fiber]

Blunder posted about it

That should give it some attention

[wispy ember]

this is what happens when ability clause is not a thing

actually, that might not even be x2 regen

[empty pendant]

Yo this is so darn cool

Only proble with it is that I've only sprited 5 tiny silly things so I can't even make a full team smh my head

[wispy ember]

then get to spriting

[empty pendant]

Aye aye cap'n

[fast elm]

we advertised right off the bat in 4 or 5 discords and here with the silent announcement, while there are still things in the near future that will hopefully bring new interest, it would be super sick if people could just tell their friends and stuff for now since we don't really know what else to do

also randbats coming will hopefully be a boost as well :)

[thick axle]

Someone should make a post about the showdown on the smogon forums or r/stunfisk

[steep plover]

maybe a stinkpost sunday meme about the meta

[solar mortar]

I want to do something based around the merciless ability, but I can’t find the toxipex fusion I’m looking for

[steep plover]

Maybe Entei? You can spread toxic and threaten steels with V-create

neither poison/fire nor water/fire are particularly bad typings for coming in over the long term, though hazards support is needed

[solar mortar]

Ooooo

Contrary Draco meteor?

[pure breach]

contrary is banned in both OU formats

[solar mortar]

Doing some AG today

[pure breach]

ah alr nice

[pure breach]

for this I think Chomp could be good, you have usable attack, and ground is the perfect coverage for poisons

as in, hits poison and steel

in IF Dex, at least

[solar kettle]

sounds like summin thatd get walled by shed

[solar mortar]

I had a toxipex/tyranitar with earthquake, knockoff, poison jab, and banefull bunker

[pure breach]

that's not bad either

[solar mortar]

Nuh-uh

[solar kettle]

yu-huh

[vivid junco]

I tried then got auto mod kek

[steep plover]

toxitar goes crazy yeah

though mine is a more boring conventional regen set

[fast blade]

Which one as the head/body?

[steep plover]

toxapex head, ttar body

poison/dark, great bulk, packs a punch

[solar mortar]

It packs more of a punch when every move is a crit 🤩

[true wedge]

The more I play this metagame, the more I wish we got Bruxish for priority immunity lol

[tiny wadi]

Every team either needs priority or be tanky enough to resist powerful priority, lol.

Dragonite fusions are top picks for that reason.

Sylveon/Dragonite with Choice Band or Ursaring/Dragonite with Swords Dance are the two most common variants I see on the ladder.

[vivid junco]

Azurill d nite wins if it can get the right predict on switch to click knock on ghosts

What 960 attack does to a person

[tiny wadi]

Yeah Azurill/Dragonite is a funny one I see sometimes, lol.

[vivid junco]

and even if you knock off it its still has 640 attack

[tiny wadi]

Power of Huge Power.

[vivid junco]

Azurill banworthy. What a beutiful meta

[tiny wadi]

Yeah Azumarill is the only Huge Power user that’s banned but I wouldn’t be surprised if Huge Power in general gets banned like Speed Boost.

[vivid junco]

the entire line except azurill is banned kek

nevermind

[tiny wadi]

lol, let’s see how long that lasts.

[vivid junco]

I want stab e speed tho

and they have the same attack

[tiny wadi]

Guts-Boosted Ursaring/Dragonite still has STAB Extremespeed and is immune to status.

Status immunity for physical attackers is super important when Jirachi/Entei is everywhere.

100% Burn Chance Sacred Fire

Also great utility and fat but fast Wish Turn support.

One of the reasons why I’ve been seeing a lot of Snorlax/Breloom recently.

[vivid junco]

Im being dead honest I have not seen a single jirachi entie

Wait no I have I kill them way too fast

[tiny wadi]

Really? I see them every couple games.

Might just be the times I’m playing.

[vivid junco]

I just kill it with this

or these

they are not really a issue honestly

[tiny wadi]

Porygon-Z/Jolteon feels like the best Porygon-Z fusion tbh.

Gengar/Porygon-Z has the better stabs but it’s much slower since the bulk of Gengar’s speed is lost being the head. Poygon-Z/Jolteon meanwhile is way faster, hits harder, gets STAB Hyper Voice + Thunderbolt, Bolt/Beam coverage, plus Volt Switch for Specs and Scarf sets.

Jirachi/Entei is mainly there to slow down physical attackers and provide support for the team by U-Turning in and out. Has a similar purpose to Toxapex/Umbreon with Regenerator + Parting Shot. It’s not really a wall breaker or sweeper like the other powerhouses.

Clefable/Registeel is also a menace if your team doesn’t have Spectral Thief or Taunt to stop it.

Can take like 3 STAB Earthquakes from a lot of Ground-types with its bulk, and that’s before it sets up Iron Defense, lol.

[vivid junco]

lmao what I ohko that shit easily

[vivid junco]

entie destroys it

I love mold breaker v create

[tiny wadi]

Well yeah but Mold Breaker doesn’t show up on the ladder to much, even though it should be way more popular with how it shuts down several strats.

[vivid junco]

ikr

I use the same set in nat dex works just fine

Just switch your entie on clefable regi steel click d dance they 95% if the time switch

get 2 kills

then die

Its either t wave or switch

And I find out which set it is with either

[slender abyss]

Bolt beam is easily the best offensive combo in the entire game

[tiny wadi]

Yep

[vivid junco]

⁉️

What no it isn't

LOl

It like 11th

[slender abyss]

Cap

[vivid junco]

Just some that are better

[slender abyss]

Fighting and ground isn't better

[vivid junco]

it hits more super effectivly tho

[slender abyss]

Fire and ice also isnt

Especially because fighting and ground gets absolutely walled by flying types

[vivid junco]

but if your factoring unwallable stab combo's then boltbeam is like 4th

Nevermind its still a bit farther down

[slender abyss]

I was wrong that it was first place but it definitely isn't 11th place

[vivid junco]

if your factoring how much it hits supperffective then boltbeam is like 11th best combo for hittinh stuff super effective

if your factoring unwallable its like 4 to 7 im not going through it all atm

[tiny wadi]

The problem with those other type combinations is there’s not as many good or reliable move abusers for either. Bolt/Beam and Power/Beam are decently widespread, but for Fighting/Ice there’s no good Physical Ice moves and no good Sp. Fighting Moves other than unreliable low accuracy ones. Similar story with most Physical Rock moves (unless your mon somehow gets access to Diamond Storm), Physical Electric is monopolized by Electivire with Plasma Fists, etc.

Ideally Ghost/Fighting and Normal/Ghost is the best STAB coverage in the game but good luck finding mons that work well together with those STAB typings that also have strong STAB moves that aren’t, like, Shadow Claw or unreliable like Focus Blast.

[vivid junco]

That is why bolt beam is considered 1 of the best. Since we have many abusers of it

But its not the best in general bc there is other better combo's that gamefreak won't make

[tiny wadi]

Bolt/Beam and Power/Beam is available to a lot of Sp. Attacking mons, and it interacts well with several top abilities, like Adaptability and Sheer Force.

[sullen ore]

Ice ground is the only one of these in the running anyways tbh

Rock/Electric with fighting put up an okay fight but theyre not as absurd to check

[tiny wadi]

Articuno/Nidoking and Glaceon/Nidoking are both pretty scary if you face them unprepared since Ice Beam/Earth Power boosted by Sheer Force is unresisted, especially with all its other moves that are basically free extra damage it can carry.

Issue is both Ice-types are pretty slow and pull down Nidoking’s speed, so you either need dedicated Trick Room or Webs support.

[vivid junco]

I was running fighting ice in beta and it was really good

All type combo's have use in the teams that use it

excpet if your bug grass kek

this is better then bolt beam

this is better then bolt beam

[tiny wadi]

Yeah but there’s so few good mons that get both good Fighting and Flying STAB.

And if you try to fuse both together it’s pretty difficult.

[vivid junco]

this can be used for water absorb combo's

[tiny wadi]

Entei/Quagsire

[vivid junco]

all flying fighting types get flying press now

so reliable fighting stab

[tiny wadi]

Yeah but Flying Press isn’t normal Fighting-STAB.

It doesn’t hit Rock or Steel for Super Effective, just normal.

[vivid junco]

Aerodactle was a bad fusion with lucario also

[tiny wadi]

Flying Press/Flying STAB combination can’t hit Electric-types either.

[vivid junco]

It has cc

[tiny wadi]

Well yeah but does it have Brave Bird?

Only a few mons get that.

[vivid junco]

nope why i said it was a bad fusion

you want aerdactly brelooom for fighting rock technician mach punch accelrock

run focus sash sd

like this is decent

you can use this

[tiny wadi]

Yeah but why use that when you can use a Mon with an insane/useful ability or insane/useful stats? Those stats are pretty mediocre and the best ability it has is Justified.

[vivid junco]

yeah im just giving examples dude

Im just saying bolt beam is not the best offensive combo by any means

[tiny wadi]

I know, but this is a problem with looking for STABs like that.

Needs to be worth it on the Mon

Like Mismagius is seeing serious use because Moongeist Beam is way better than Shadow Ball with its higher power and secondary effect, and it gives Ghost-typing on both the head and body (both of which have nice stats), whereas Gengar can only give Ghost-type on the head.

[tiny wadi]

Hitmonlee already has Unburden, which doubles speed when you use your item. I don’t think that two priority moves are that beneficial.

[vivid junco]

Like this is infinite fusion. There are ways you can cook up stuff

[tiny wadi]

And the best Ice-type move it learns is Ice Punch.

[vivid junco]

Ice punch is usable

this is gen 7

your not gonna get many great ice stabs

[tiny wadi]

Icicle Crash isn’t on Weavile for some reason.

[vivid junco]

then they gave it triple axle kek

[median thunder]

i dont like sash unburden cos too man hazards

[vivid junco]

just the first thing I came up with

I main nat dex

[median thunder]

also run reversal over CC

[vivid junco]

I had a different ice fighting I was using

[hexed umbra]

Try Endure + Liechi berry, it's still weak to priority though

[vivid junco]

this was what I was using in nat dex

[median thunder]

mach punch clears everything that isnt a ES bot

[slender abyss]

It's still annoying that there's literally only one ice/electric type pokemon

[vivid junco]

My entire argument was bolt beam is not the best offensive combo

Im fine with using it

but its not the best

[vivid junco]

I got zamazenta banned with this lol

[slender abyss]

At least arctozolt is good ig

[hexed umbra]

Arctozolt is so funny because it was simultaneously terrible and banworthy in different tiers when it got slush rush

[slender abyss]

It's funny how goofy the gen 8 fossils are yet they're all amazing pokemon

Except arctovish

Arctovish stinks

I wonder how arctozolt is gonna do this gen with the ice type buffs

If it even comes back

[hexed umbra]

Unironicaly might be pretty good in RU/UU

[slender abyss]

He would be good with Alolan ninetales but of course Alolan ninetales is OU

Considering how much powercreep is in this gen I doubt arctozolt would be OU

I could see UU or UUBL if he had a good snow warning partner

[proven fjord]

eviolite alolan vulpix

(vulpix has shit stats and i know that but its still funny)

[slender abyss]

Abomasnow would be better

[proven fjord]

i know but its funny

[slender abyss]

If Alolan vulpix was faster it would be decent ig lol

[proven fjord]

yeah

abomasnow is better in like every way but alolan vulpix is always funnier

[vivid junco]

Tournament in 30 minutes
Hope you guys can join

[hoary dune]

wdym?

[vivid junco]

a tournament in showdown

[hoary dune]

The only torney I've seen mentioned is the Inaugural in announcements

[vivid junco]

im hosting 1 atm

And Yes I wrote nat dex but meant if dex

Im tired lol

[hoary dune]

Oh damn, neat

[fast blade]

How do you join

[hoary dune]

^

[vivid junco]

I just got hosting privs yesterday. Gonna be doing them pretty often

[hoary dune]

Just found it, its on the top of the forum to the side

[hoary dune]

Oh also I'll ask again, is there any idea of when IF uu and ru are coming?

[fast blade]

Idk wym

[hoary dune]

To the right there

[fast blade]

Oh thanks

[hoary dune]

Pretty happy with how I did, made it past first round then lost to someone who went to win the whole tourney

[inner jasper]

Yeah, felt like I could have gone further if RNG was with me, but that's a skill issue. Not terrible for a first tourney in IF (and, in general, years)

[opal fiber]

does Stance Change work the same way on Showdown as it does in PIF

where it just swaps your defense and offense stats'

[verbal pine]

Technically yes, since only Aegislash can use it and Aegislash's 2 forms have inversed attack stats and defence stats

[lime wren]

how does using the teambuilder on this work? like how do you make the bloody fusions in it

[solid nest]

you choose a pokemon

then

choose another in the uhhhh

it’ll be above the level/gender/happiness

@lime wren

[lime wren]

ah, thanks

it appears I'm just blind until you pointed that out

[solid nest]

happens to the best of us

[frigid frost]

are you sure? i thought it was flipped stats

[lament canopy]

This dude had Arceus's BST in Gen 6/7

[frigid frost]

ok well actually

if showdown is working correctly

stance change is not doing anything

which...

i dont remember if thats how it worked in infinite fusion

okay so uhhhhh

i booted up infinite fusion to check

oh wait

hold on im dumb

okay yeah in infinite fusion it does nothing

now im just confused as to why aegislash is banned tbh LOL

[pure breach]

Stance Change swaps your attack and defense

Both in the showdown and IF

It doesn’t show the stat changes in either

[frigid frost]

well

im getting the same damage rolls

so

🤔

or maybe not

[pure breach]

Could you show a screenshot of that?

[frigid frost]

the same damage rolls?

you can see the damage rolls in the screenshot, i didnt do like, a very large scale test though

so i should not give a definitive answer

[pure breach]

That is so hard to follow with 3 aegislash lol

Considering both are entering and exiting shield form too

[frigid frost]

9.2% and 11.4% after

so rather than losing the massive amount of defense that you'd lose

it just seems like its a different damage roll in the same ballpark

but again

i should not be giving answers as though i performed a large scale test on this

when i just clicked it like

5 times

and went

[pure breach]

Both times the other Aegi was in attack stance

[frigid frost]

"hmm this doesnt appear to be working"

yep

or

the other players aegislash is in blade mode in both

p1s aegislash is only in blade mode in the second screenshot

[pure breach]

Im saying that during the 9 and 11 you were both in blade stance

[frigid frost]

nop

it is hard to enter blade when u are being switched in

lol

[pure breach]

Oh I see what you mean

Try a more extensive test

[frigid frost]

ill probably do that tomorrow, do you just want me to post results here or dm?

[tribal trellis]

If anyone wants to test rn i can help

[pure breach]

You can put them here, make sure to ping me

[frigid frost]

can do!

[frigid frost]

you can actually test by yourself

by opening two browser windows

thats what i did hahahaha

[tribal trellis]

Hmm

[pure breach]

Please post the replay of the test as well

Whenever someone tests

The intention is for it to swap attacks and defenses, which we tested extensively and it worked fine, so if it isn’t working anymore then it’s an issue

[tribal trellis]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=skippr-ishallnotusename-1701332293251 it's kinda crappy cause atk and def don't change too much but i think it does change the roll range by like 2%

[frigid frost]

thats why i used registeel + aegis

actually

use shuckle + aegis

it would be the most immediately obvious

[tribal trellis]

https://replay.pokeathlon.com/#replay=skippr-ishallnotusename-1701332608991 it does for sure yea

[frigid frost]

registeel aegis was not obvious enough

alright great job

[tribal trellis]

Yea it took way longer than i expected cause im not near a computer rn and did it on my phone

[frigid frost]

ahhhhh

[tribal trellis]

But yea aegislash works

[frigid frost]

my mistake then

[tribal trellis]

No it's fine

Just funny

[hexed umbra]

Why was Aegislash banned?

[frigid frost]

stance change would be pretty good

i never played vs it in if ou

so

[fast elm]

it was already ubers in gen 7

[frigid frost]

oh lol

[tribal trellis]

Yea just as a normal pokemon it was always good

Great type good stats great movepool

Good abilty

[frigid frost]

tbh i think a lot of the current ubers mons could be tested

but also im just like

a person

👻

darkrai in particular stood out to me though

post dark void nerf darkrai

[tribal trellis]

Yea

They just deleted his move kinda

[frigid frost]

yeah lol

then decided smeargle cant use it

and didnt unnerf it 😂

[hexed umbra]

Darkrai is currently D tier in UUbers, it can't catch a break

[odd kiln]

d stands for darkrai

[tribal trellis]

Yea the only thing it has going for it is 600 bst

It has a pretty useless abilty

And a good movepool

[tribal trellis]

Mabye more of an ok one too

[frigid frost]

yeah lol it doesnt have anything too crazy

[odd kiln]

Darkrade (Darkrai) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Bad Dreams
Fusion: Roserade
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Dark Pulse
• Sludge Bomb
• Substitute
• Sleep Powder
  looks annoying

[tribal trellis]

Yea

[odd kiln]

or plot over sub

[tribal trellis]

But it looks like it's just a good pokemon kinda

Not a darkrai

Just annoying

[frigid frost]

oh

wait

it gives moongeist beam

u could run that

lol

[tribal trellis]

I mean it's fusion expert buff

[frigid frost]

yeah i just forgot it gets moongeist from the fusion expert

[odd kiln]

Poryrai (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
Fusion: Darkrai
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Dark Pulse
• Focus Blast
• Tri Attack
• Nasty Plot
  probably optimal set

or specs w trick

[tribal trellis]

Yea

Mabye

But it's kinda ou level no?

[frigid frost]

what does it do vs espeed

[odd kiln]

switches out

[odd kiln]

calc vs common spd mons

[tribal trellis]

Yea i mean offensive mons aren't the counter you have for it

[tribal trellis]

I mean it's still 135

So just porygon z

It's just gives it more stats in general like speed

And worse typing

So idk how much better it really is

[odd kiln]

fym worse typing

mononormal is terrible

[tribal trellis]

4x fighting is also terrible

[odd kiln]

its an offensive mon who cares if its 4x weak

[tribal trellis]

But yes i mean vs other fusions

[odd kiln]

ur dying to fighting anyway

[tribal trellis]

Ok so you just gave porygon z more speed

That's it

[odd kiln]

and a dark stab

thats huge

speed is also pretty big one of its downsides is its middling speed

[frigid frost]

poryvern is 1 point slower

[tribal trellis]

Ok so you are saying if you gave porygon speed it would be ag?

In if

[median thunder]

I was going to say why sleep powder over void

but void has 50% acc

what the fuck lmao

[tribal trellis]

Yep

[frigid frost]

yeah void being 50% acc is why we're yapping about darkrai in the first place

he just kinda seems like

a guy

to me

[tribal trellis]

That's why we stared talking about darkrai

[frigid frost]

lol

[median thunder]

does dark void fail to sleep clause entirely or does it still get damage

[tribal trellis]

What dmg is it supposed to do?

I dont follow

[median thunder]

HUH

oh

[tribal trellis]

Wdym bro im just saying your point is you are giving it speed and dark typing and it's ag

[median thunder]

it's bad dreams I remember doing damage

[tribal trellis]

Im saying typing is just a fusion

[tribal trellis]

Yep

[odd kiln]

i dont say its ag i say itd be unhealthy

would cause even more centralization than rn

[viscid skiff]

does anyone have any recs for wallbreaker mons (for ou)

[median thunder]

1/8th is nothing to scoff at tho

[tribal trellis]

But that's why i started talking about it

[median thunder]

that's pre nerf burn

[median thunder]

something with moldbreaker and coverage that's se against fairy 🥴

[odd kiln]

1/8 that wears off in at most 3 turns and that you can only dmg one mon on a team and if ur on the field at the time

[tribal trellis]

Like that's what i was saying

[odd kiln]

its uuber level

[median thunder]

eq is usually enough for unaware clef steel

it's just like

yea

idk

[tribal trellis]

Sure

Tell me when uuber is out in if

[frigid frost]

uuber is out in if

its called ifdex ou

[median thunder]

makes subseed better outside of chlorophyll users

[frigid frost]

||natdex ou is ubers||

[median thunder]

not saying it's good

[median thunder]

NO LAKE TRIO NO GRENINJA

[frigid frost]

🥲

[median thunder]

I might’ve burnt myself out with 500 games I need new mons to toy woth

[frigid frost]

i forgot lake trio wasnt in infinite fusion and got so disappointed looking for suicide leads for a ho team

[median thunder]

also no crawdaunt

like no good phys adaptibility

no ludicolo

there's very random mons missing that like when Ur looking to fill particular niches it's like

very apparent

[frigid frost]

loool yea thats how i feel about

lots of fairy fusions

there are quite a few typings with not great selections in ifdex

[viscid skiff]

you mean fairy/steel

[frigid frost]

the really annoying part is

there are so many good dragon and steel types

[viscid skiff]

Being able to slap fairy onto most things turns out is kind of nutso

Will ifmeta just devolve into fairy degeneracy until mimikyu fusions pop off

[tribal trellis]

Yea typing is insane

Fairy just turns almost every type into a better one

Mabye every

[viscid skiff]

Limit fairy types to 2 per team when

[tribal trellis]

I mean it's makes steel types better

So it's going to be full steel if it's full fairy

Which makes it kinda balanced in a way

But if you are just looking at a type solo and what it does fairy is indeed the best one

[hexed umbra]

Fairy and steel are the best 2 types in the game by a decent margin

[odd kiln]

fairysteel is actually not a v good unaware type imo

[hexed umbra]

Most (physical) setup mons run EQ, every QD mon is either flying or psychic

[fast blade]

Why?

[odd kiln]

a lot of ddancers have eq and or vcreate

[warped veldt]

Entei DDancers? Scary.

(I don't know who else gets V-Create I've only seen Entei with it)

[opal fiber]

In OU right

[steep plover]

btw, it looks like the server is in BW OU mood

[warped veldt]

Ferrothorn meta in real

[steep plover]

nah, I'm talking weather wars 😆

[warped veldt]

Ninetales and Politoed are back with a vengeance.

[steep plover]

more like sun vs sand atm

[warped veldt]

Oh yeh Tyranitar

[steep plover]

basically people discovered Chlorophyll + VCreate

[warped veldt]

Yeah I saw that

[steep plover]

and now sand teams are popping up to counter that

[median thunder]

what's the fusion

leafeon or victrebel

[warped veldt]

Leafeon has better stats.

[median thunder]

oh nvm

yea

[warped veldt]

I'm considering making a rain team just for fun.

[median thunder]

I remember looking at victrebel cos it's the only chlorophyll Mon that gets weatherball

point is moot if u vcreate

[viscid skiff]

can i get some opinions

just got home from work

(this is for OU)
wanted to make some adjustments and potentially swap out some stuff to deal with more annoying things like fairy/steel stall

the most recent addition is the porygon z/entei which i threw in for coverage and the ones im iffy about are the chandelure/kyurem and maybe the tentacruel/tangrowth fusion, more so the chandelure tho

[odd kiln]

i dont get why this has webs

[viscid skiff]

the skar/galvantula is the lead

[odd kiln]

there are two scarfers

[warped veldt]

Why Tailwind and Webs? That seems like too much setup.

[viscid skiff]

i just swapped taunt with tailwind on galvantula

just to experiment

[warped veldt]

Tailwind isn't that good on Singles imo

[odd kiln]

mans tryna outrun scarf regieleki

[viscid skiff]

this is gen 7 ou

[odd kiln]

it was a joke

[viscid skiff]

probs fine to swap out though with like

[warped veldt]

Taunt seems better if you can outspeed the enemy's setup mons and disable

[odd kiln]

webs doesnt make sense esp when u have two scarfers

[viscid skiff]

another choice item insteadright?

[odd kiln]

whole idea of webs is to use midspeed huge breakers

[viscid skiff]

ive ran taunt for a couple of runs and it just felt bad

(i am new to comp pokemon so i might just be move illiterate)

im ok with like rebuilding one of the mons to be a huge breaker tbh

[verbal pine]

Taunt is quite good at shutting down defensive walls and forcing a switch

[odd kiln]

webs is an archetype

[warped veldt]

Also I feel like you need hazard removal

[odd kiln]

you build 5 mons around it

[viscid skiff]

ive been getting good-ish results with webs tbh

[warped veldt]

I also run a webs team, I just have one Scarf user to kill Magic Bounce mons

Or in case I fail to setup Webs

[viscid skiff]

oh fuck i just forgor about magic bounce

[warped veldt]

You gotta play around it!

[viscid skiff]

what does one do about that (that is comp viable) in

nodnod

[odd kiln]

mold breaker

[warped veldt]

Ew

[viscid skiff]

ah yeah i remember someone mentioning mold breaker earlier

[odd kiln]

skill swap

[warped veldt]

lmao

Skill swap is funny, I'll give it that

[viscid skiff]

moldbreaker pool is so

[odd kiln]

pinsir galv is an ok setter

[odd kiln]

its used on ribombee

[viscid skiff]

but then i lose steel

[odd kiln]

doesnt matter ur supposed to set webs and die

[warped veldt]

I use Magic Guard Clefable/Galv as my setter

[viscid skiff]

true

i lose spikes with no skarmory

more like this?

not sure on the item

[odd kiln]

rocks

use sash

[viscid skiff]

oh shit

i have 2 toxic enablers already so

[warped veldt]

T-Wave exists

[viscid skiff]

i was lookin at twave

[odd kiln]

its webs ho youre probably not using toxic

[viscid skiff]

tru

aye?

[warped veldt]

T-Wave over Infestation

Infestation is for stalling

[viscid skiff]

im a dot simp

[warped veldt]

You must resist the urge

[viscid skiff]

ill respect the call though

[median thunder]

what base speed is that at

interesting that pinsir gets rocks

[viscid skiff]

100

[warped veldt]

I recommend running Rapid Spin over Toxic on your Tentacruel/Tangrowth

Hazard control is always appreciated

[viscid skiff]

im gonna be real with you i didnt even know this move existed

[odd kiln]

its webs ho that tang cruels gone

[viscid skiff]

excellent post

[odd kiln]

let alone spin

[warped veldt]

well

What do you recommend, then?

Another sweeper?

[odd kiln]

5 breakers

[warped veldt]

hbjuh

Have I also been playing webs wrong?

[viscid skiff]

Idk good breakers for if tbh

[odd kiln]

https://www.smogon.com/articles/hyper-offense-smou

[warped veldt]

Baton Pass....

Damn that's old

This just seems to say that Rain is the best HO set

It is kinda true- why bother with a setup move when you can set rain in an instant?

And IF means you're not locked to Water types for really good rain offense

[median thunder]

I've been thinking

fuck swift swim

garbage ability

[warped veldt]

Where's Sand Force but for Rain

give

[median thunder]

why not just give Ur sweeper tinted lens and press hydro pump

[median thunder]

that's called rain itself

[warped veldt]

Yeah but more power = good

:^)

[steep plover]

who cares about locking into water types

water is goated

[warped veldt]

True

But I'd like at least a little bit of type variety.

Zapdos fusions

[steep plover]

electric and flying benefit from rain ig

and anyting weak to fire

[warped veldt]

Steel stays winning

I do see Ferrothorn being great in rain teams

[odd kiln]

lack of immediate speed

[steep plover]

🌍👨‍🚀🔫👨‍🚀

[odd kiln]

but rain teams use both swift swim and breakers

see crawdaunt

[median thunder]

zapdos doesn't have hurricane in this 😵‍💫

[warped veldt]

Naurrrr

Oh well just fuse it onto something that gives it Hurricane

Fusion moment

[steep plover]

zapmoltcuno + 1836 defoggers

[warped veldt]

"holy shit"- Hazard setters, probably

[viscid skiff]

using triple fusions is cringe

[median thunder]

moltres has it

[warped veldt]

It's okay, not like any of them are anything special

Zapmolcuno literally dies to rocks so

Yeah, I've been convinced. I wanna try out a rain team.

I've never built weather teams before, but it should be simple.

I just hope the Swift Swim mons are good

Wow... Arnaldo and Kabutops.

Oh, Kingdra, too.

[fast blade]

Lol

[warped veldt]

Birb literally explodes

Touches a rock and turns to dust

That's how they should've solved it in the manga

[viscid skiff]

what do you even do with triple fusions

[tribal trellis]

the gen 3 triple is running rampant rn

cause it's one of the highest bst's

without like a x8 weakness

but it was agreed that the bst is a bug i think

so idk what will happen to it after

[warped veldt]

I got a question- what's the best Unburden fusion y'all can think of? (besides the starter fusion) I got a really funny idea, but I need a good offensive Unburden mon to do it.

[fast blade]

Lol

[warped veldt]

[fast blade]

The starter fusion really is the best one tho lol

The one I use is Hitmonlee/Gliscor. You get DUAL STAB Acrobatics and High Jump Kick and things just explode

[torn lantern]

I was throwing around the idea of a drifblim/snorlax unburden set to be tanky and fast but I've not tried it much yet, you could give it a go

[deft oasis]

I saw someone using an Unburden Ampharos/Sceptile with Air Balloon and Tail Glow; Electric/Grass STAB is actually pretty decent but it gets walled really hard by Grass and Dragon types since it has no Ice moves aside from Hidden Power

[steep plover]

you hardly get walled after a tail glow though do you

especially with the selection of available unawares being naturally threatened by the stabs