mystery dungeon is pretty much 100% one of the few things in the game that we've turned down due to the amount of work...which is effectively just following pokemon
#pif-hoenn-discussion
prime dust
2D unite would be the same, if not worse, since in some instances you'd have pokemon evolving 4 times in a match for a total of 5 or 6 sprites needed in a similar "following" state
viscid fossil
I mean with unite you could probably get away with like 5 heads and 5 bodies to combine as you wish, but mystery dungeon would definitely need a huge roster with no limitations
prime dust
it would need limitations; a very curated roster of pokemon and fusions to mitigate the hell
like 30-35 pokemon tops, making it perfect for a mystery dungeon game which I think can have like what, 1000 or so unique encounters in it
30 on the low end means you get 900 unique encounters
35 on the high end means you get 1,225 unique encounters
any more than that and I feel like it would just make the game too bloated; since mystery dungeon is a roguelike/roguelike
marsh lotus
Pokémon Rumble Fusion
muted solstice
mystery dungeon is pretty much 100% one of the few things in the game that we've...
Yea that doesn’t sound fun, honestly I don’t think there are any spin off games that you could reasonably make an IF game from
prime dust
Yea that doesn’t sound fun, honestly I don’t think there are any spin off games ...
maybe a tcg spinoff since that uses the same kind of spritework this game does just with some slight tweaks
but outside that, yeah
even a tcg might be difficult, but that is far more doable in terms of what is needed compared to mystery dungeon or unite
muted solstice
*even a tcg might be difficult, but that is far more doable in terms of what is ...
Yea tcg might work, maybe masters but 2d since there’s a lot of trainers already sprited, don’t think that would be feasible
full bison
Yea tcg might work, maybe masters but 2d since there’s a lot of trainers already...
Of course that comes with having to figure out the logistics of how fusion would be treated in the rules of the TCG, but that is a comparatively not as bad issue
muted solstice
Of course that comes with having to figure out the logistics of how fusion would...
Just have an item card lol
weak trellis
my first thought was something like "can use attacks from both forms if you have the energy for it, take two prize cards when this faints" as a general baseline
prime dust
my first thought was something like "can use attacks from both forms if you have...
since most cards have 1 or 2 attacks it wouldn't be too complex for energy, the biggest possible problem child would be weakness
the options for that would be:
- keep general weakness of the pokemon fusion only using either the most effective, or if there are multiple, then the first 2 weaknessess
- ignore weakness entirely and just have it be an all out brawl fest of whoever can ko the opposing card first
- we use yu-gi-oh logic; each pokemon is its own unique card and then to fuse them you need a card that can do that and that fusion card is kept in the extra deck
[3 would require some heavy tweaking to determine the card level, the effect if it has one, and the atk/def of the mons]
weak trellis
pokemon from what I recall typically only has 1/2 weaknesses per card and it can differ for a specific mon
so like to pull up an example jynx might be weak to metal on one card but darkness on another
weak trellis
there we go there is a precident for a TGC card having two weaknesses but I'm not sure how overly common it is?
(actually minus the retreat cost of 5 that probably wouldn't be a bad representation of "mash two unrelated cards together")
prime dust
yeah, it would require a bit of finesse to get sorted
but out of every possibly side game in the franchise, i can't think of another that is more doable with the least amount of shenanigans
weak trellis
I mean there's also a lot of spinoffs that just throw out the concept of stats entirely and just focus on like "is it this type" (or like masters being Who's Mon Is It Anyway where the stats are made up and the resistances are on the sync grid)
full bison
but out of every possibly side game in the franchise, i can't think of another t...
It would be a fun excuse to bring back that dual type gimmick that I remember from sometime around the XY era
viscid fossil
I mean there's also a lot of spinoffs that just throw out the concept of stats e...
Pokémon shuffle fusion when
muted solstice
I mean there's also a lot of spinoffs that just throw out the concept of stats e...
Yea, I mean they have been doing a little bit better about explaining where the mons with the arc suits but the new Tera stuff makes no sense
muted solstice
Yea, I mean they have been doing a little bit better about explaining where the ...
Like just have them eat the soup, instead they went with they’ve always been those types
steep glen
How big i Hoenn comparied to this joint reagionjs
thin pawn
Probably not as big as two regions combined
last vault
Still waiting for PIF Hoenn
white meadow
Still waiting for PIF Hoenn
Won't be surprised if this channel devolves into Aslume Hoenn shitposting once everyone ran out of things to talk about PIF Hoenn.
sterile spoke
mystery dungeon is pretty much 100% one of the few things in the game that we've...
Following Pokémon with diagonals. 
prime dust
Following Pokémon *with diagonals.* <:stare:785140367833432084>
could easily mitigate it by forcing just the main directions, up, down, left and right
would make it feel more like a dungeon crawler
full bison
Following Pokémon *with diagonals.* <:stare:785140367833432084>
Following Pokemon not just with diagonals, but also attack and damage animations for each of those directions
prime dust
those could be kept simple as well
proud lion
To me, the Hoenn mons becoming viable with numbers are the release to me. (I can make sprites of them)
summer apex
I mean. You could have made sprites for them before
trail hull
we won
lofty spindle
Uh... anyone else in Team Sapphire that can't access the vote?
velvet root
GG team sapphire
trail hull
reminder that 1200 points came from mudkipstire alone
lofty spindle
Crazy.
trail hull
look
velvet root
Stop
rain locust
if sapphire picks some shit like zebstrika or pachirisu ill die
velvet root
Zebstrika is atleast fun
I would hate wishiwashi
lofty spindle
I have focused on Beartic for access to Slush Rush, I wish for it because I want to build a Hail team.
prime dust
nah, team sapphire, you should pull a fast one
add the monkeys
lofty spindle
nah, team sapphire, you should pull a fast one
add the monkeys
They could only add one.
trail hull
guys we're totally getting wishiwashi
lofty spindle
Which is why I voted against it, same as Wormadame.
prime dust
guys we're totally getting wishiwashi
one more phimsch gone for the joke
velvet root
guys we're totally getting wishiwashi
Pls no
vital spire
if sapphire picks some shit like zebstrika or pachirisu ill die
What's wrong with Pachi?
rain locust
no stats no movepool no ability
trail hull
official paya statement from saphire chat https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/737765817474744350/1413611529903013989/image.png?ex=68bc8fd4&is=68bb3e54&hm=e843e5ea113f8acaf7dd647aed88718021fb9e17cb9ba4a611d4ffce7ae5a99f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
velvet root
official paya statement from saphire chat https://media.discordapp.net/attachmen...
@summer narwhal how dare you
Just kiddinh
lofty spindle
Hm... and if the other teams' top dogs were removed?
inland jewel
the least impacted would probably be emeralds? because Ruby had the 2nd highest sprites which was about a quarter more than Emerald's top dog
Sapphire = 3xRuby while Ruby = (3/4)Emerald iirc
since the hard numbers were like 350/175/120 give or take
gray stream
izik had like 94 sprites i think?
inland jewel
i know Ruby's at the time of interview had like 176
which was halfway through the month
velvet root
For Ruby and Emerald if they want https://tiermaker.com/create/sapphire-vote-18085702
soft sable
is that my goat araquanid i see?
inland jewel
Process: If its a water type = 0, we already have too many, but if its a water type I really like, it gets at least a 1
velvet root
velvet root
Process: If its a water type = 0, we already have too many, but if its a water t...
Tell that to the Monkey, Swan, Spinder and glow fish
inland geyser
velvet root
where did you get the C and D?
inland geyser
i must just be special 
velvet root
Idk maybe the side bugged
inland jewel
Tell that to the Monkey, Swan, Spinder and glow fish
Lumineon is like top 3 favorite sinnoh mon, Monkey gets 6 mons in so im cool with it, Swanna and Araquanid are just goated
velvet root
fair
gray stream
inland geyser
my picks are all about bringing palettes and themes to the game
inland jewel
I think i should have put Jellicent higher, because as the only non-special ghost type to not be in the game yet
inland geyser
i dont have any actual connections to these mons
tho i did use Araquanid almost exclusively thruout Pokemon sun, (also Alolan Muk)
inland jewel
like for the ghost type we don't have in the game- its all legendaries and mythicals. the only one not either of those are Jellicent line
so might as well just get it over with,
also jsut realized that Dragalge is in fact not a Team Sapphire mon
inland geyser
was Pangoro on ruby or emerald?
inland geyser
also jsut realized that Dragalge is in fact not a Team Sapphire mon
?
velvet root
was Pangoro on ruby or emerald?
emerald
white meadow
I would love to have the frog lines get in
gray stream
i would be so happy if it won
wishiwashi would be nice but i already know it isnt gonna get used correctly by everyone
inland jewel
from my knowledge of propoganda, the top three contendors i see getting in are Dragagle, Eelektross or Vaniliss
Another dragon, the no weakness mon, and finally hail setter that isn't a HA
gray stream
wishiwashi would be nice but i already know it isnt gonna get used correctly by ...
im glad it wont have many splices though. it is definitely the mon with the most personality imo
velvet root
im glad it wont have many splices though. it is definitely the mon with the most...
For me other mons have more more personality
gray stream
which ones
i can see some of them, but i really dont think that it is anywhere near the worst as far as personality goes
velvet root
On sapphire alon its
Toxicorak
Gumshoose
Simipour
Seismitoad
Vanillux
and Crab
inland jewel
confirmed that the monkey and wormadam gets the others in its lines
sso Simipour adds 6 mons, and Wormadam gets 5
thin pawn
Crazy
weak trellis
uh I'm not editing this one just to move wormadam up a point but edited
twilit cave
Almost everey teir list ive seen is giving simipour a 3
Thank you all.......for your simisupport
inland jewel
yeah because it gives us the most pokemon
weak trellis
makes sense
inland jewel
and once they're in, we no longer have to deal with them
thin pawn
Adding the monkeys feels like such a waste
velvet root
Look at him
twilit cave
Irts gonna happen eventually
velvet root
wow what did Carra do to you?
twilit cave
They added klink they WILL add the monkeys
thin pawn
Klink isn't as bad
weak trellis
is a big fat water and rock we got enough of those lol
thin pawn
At least Klinklang is a decent mon and can make neat fusions
weak trellis
unless we're on a goal to add all of the fossils in which case uh
thin pawn
The monkeys are so unbelievably bland
weak trellis
sighs* understandable have a nice day
rain locust
velvet root
is a big fat water and rock we got enough of those lol
Okay WHAT did he do to you XD
proud lion
I already got a head start [numbers pending]
tender plank
is a big fat water and rock we got enough of those lol
hey only i'm allowed to call him fat
twilit cave
So have i!
thin pawn
Horrifying
rain locust
the right opinion btw
weak trellis
also to woobat I have literally one word on my opinion on that.
SIMPLE.
(and also like 116 speed lol)
rain locust
its simply a noobtrap
weak trellis
still it's probably my underdog 3 considering it's the only non-ice type in that tier for me lol
tender plank
whar
rain locust
This pic goes so hard. Feel free to screenshot.
thin pawn
Me and who
proud lion
Imagine if the Swoobat line is 596 and 597
inland jewel
They added klink they WILL add the monkeys
they added klink because its the only mon at the time that could do gear aesthetics. Frog added mons if they, added fun fusion elements, had unique moves/abilities, or were popular
tender plank
Imagine if the Swoobat line is 596 and 597
yeah it should be
.
wait
velvet root
2 in 1 deal whos with me?
twilit cave
they added klink because its the only mon at the time that could do gear aesthet...
Yeah right
inland jewel
from what i read, the person chose Swoobat because it seemed fun to design fusions with, and then they looked at its stats and were like "Hoo boy."
twilit cave
If that was the case
proud lion
I'd be aight with them. Unique choices. ^^
rain locust
2 in 1 deal whos with me?
thats like a 1.25 in 1 deal
inland jewel
Yeah right
Considering it was added in a batch with ONLY his choice
twilit cave
Shinotic would be in due to being a fun gi
inland jewel
he didn't even start doing player votes till like 4 years ago
twilit cave
Also meo w
proud lion
Also meo w
Dats rite
velvet root
thats like a 1.25 in 1 deal
Okay its nothing for competetive
rough wraith
Sorry sapphire but your pokemon just ain't really doing it for me
inland jewel
iirc, the game started as gen 6 was finishing and gen 7 was starting to be teased to the public
velvet root
Are people adding a C and D or is the webside bugged?
inland jewel
so magearna wasn't even revealed
tender plank
Are people adding a C and D or is the webside bugged?
it was added to me too somehow
inland jewel
Are people adding a C and D or is the webside bugged?
thats what it shows
velvet root
Weird I extra reloaded everything to go sure
weak trellis
uh if you go to the right of the tiers you can rename the tiers to whatever you want
velvet root
F it its not the official thing
weak trellis
and change their color too which is why mine's green -> red instead of red -> green
rough wraith
uh if you go to the right of the tiers you can rename the tiers to whatever you ...
Ye I was just lazy
But if I had to make a chart for 4 tiers, C and D can be combined into a general 0 tier
velvet root
Btw my most wants of each team are
Ruby = Mudsdale
Emerald = Gogoat
Sapphire = Durant
Even tho I love many other mons from the teams too
rain locust
begging to add fuckin wormadam is crazy
proud lion
Oh. Sorry. 
zinc field
im going... im gonna remove that now so people stop pinging me and getting upset with me i just can sprite wormsdam easy im sorry
i don't know what I did wrong
bye im really sorry
proud lion
No no, it’s ok to share your thoughts to who to bring in.
inland jewel
Ruby= Mandibuzz
Sapphire= Crabominable
Emerald= Purugly
thin pawn
I think Clawitzer could be cool
tender plank
honestly my top 5 sapphire picks are Eelektross, Avalugg, Crabominable, Clawitzer and the obvious one I don't even need to say
thin pawn
I wonder what it could be
tender plank
drampa gastrodon and toxicroak are a close 6-8th
velvet root
honestly my top 5 sapphire picks are Eelektross, Avalugg, Crabominable, Clawitze...
I thought 3 Carracostas
inland jewel
runner ups are Barbaracle/Shiinotic/ Durant
thin pawn
I don't even like Carracosta that much but it could be cool
tender plank
honestly it was the drive to get carracosta in infinite fusion that made me like them so much
my fav at the time aggron was already in so i just scrambled to find a pokemon that i could advocate and root for
velvet root
honestly it was the drive to get carracosta in infinite fusion that made me like...
Same here for Gogoat
inland jewel
I propose next anniversary Frog adds finish the lines types of update
thin pawn
agendas in different fandoms is so interesting
velvet root
my fav at the time aggron was already in so i just scrambled to find a pokemon t...
Showing people that underdogs arent shit is always great
inland jewel
the rest of hte starters, missing counterparts, etc
tender plank
the rest of hte starters, missing counterparts, etc
i would cry 🥹
velvet root
the rest of hte starters, missing counterparts, etc
Gogoat
inland jewel
and then we'd get the standard pop vote and add a few extra lines,
thin pawn
Zygarde would be cool
thin pawn
velvet root
inland jewel
with the missing counterparts and to finish stuff off we'd get
Lilligant, Gothitelle, Carracosta, Archeops, Aromatisse, Jellicent,
the other starters
rough wraith
What is jellicent the counter to?
inland jewel
Its the only non-legendary/mythical ghost type we can still add
all other gens 1-7 ghost types that are regular dudes are in the game
as for legendaries and mythicals, its the Ultra beasts, Lunala, Marshadow.
if we want ot be generaous the rest of the dragons could also be added
which would be Dragalge, Drampa, Turtonator and Druddigan
and if Dragalge gets added then Clauncher does too since its the counterpart to it
and thats already a pretty sizable update that could happen
with Fusion day 2026 to cap off another 3 lines
outer matrix
inland jewel
hmm, Counterparts + finishing types + starters = 37 mons which is good enough for the next big update.
and if he doesn't want to do both starters, the 9 slots can be the fusion day lines tba
zinc field
if i have to sprite a clawitzer or crabominable i will cry
velvet root
I found what Gogoat haters call Gogoat all the time
weak trellis
I'd be hard debating on a 1 or a 2 for gogoat
velvet root
Horns and leaves yep has to be gogoat
Only that you cant fuse that one with anything else
weak trellis
as a mono-grass it's kind of a hard sell since we have leafeon a lot of em already but the stats are overall nice and giving grassy pelt to something that gets grassy terrain has some good possibilities
velvet root
and it has no fur
inland jewel
tbh, spending a turn to grassy terrain is horrible
inland jewel
imagine if the paradox mons had used Snow as their terrain instead of sunny day
hardy remnant
Snow is weather, not terrain.
weak trellis
the power of automatically setting an effect doing something you were doing anyway (IE: switching or attacking) instead of manually doing it
hardy remnant
Anything like Misty Terrain, Psychic Terrain, and Electric Terrain are terrain, things like Snow, Harsh Sunlight, and Rain are weather.
weak trellis
yea since IF doesn't have automatic terrain setters unless the Tapus were added
and even then I think most of the terrain moves are only on one island so it'd be a lategame if not postgame thing
hardy remnant
Weather overrides weather, and terrain overrides terrain. I'm just saying this to make sure people don't get confused.
hardy remnant
and even then I think most of the terrain moves are only on one island so it'd b...
But even if it was accessible early, it still would hardly be used.
velvet root
Yay the bat is confirmed
quaint matrix
Simple Flying-type gonna be real good
boreal crypt
So would the gen 5 starters be in pif hoenn?
inland jewel
So would the gen 5 starters be in pif hoenn?
i can see them adding gen 5 starters in 3 years
since the next trio is the alolan ones
sudden jackal
So would the gen 5 starters be in pif hoenn?
TBD tm
inland jewel
this is based on the popularity poll they did 2 years ago
and then last year they added the gen 6 trio (which won that poll)
this year it was speculated that gen 7 trio would be added but they instead gave us the entirety of gen 3, so if follow the poll, (which gen 7 got 2nd place) would be next year, and then another Gen addition before Gen 5 trio gets in
boreal crypt
Damn really gonna have to wait for Pif Sinnoh
Well disappointing, till the next big ping ig
inland jewel
the next big ping will probably be the line announcements for the team votes, and then the pif demo when it releases
white meadow
cool
inland jewel
what level do you think woobat is going to evolve at? Its a friendship evo
im hoping 20
prime dust
yeah 20 would work
that's right around the same level riolu evos into lucario
and that was a friendship evo
full bison
Swoobat is pretty weak for a fully evolved Pokemon on account of Gamefreak being rightfully terrified of Simple, so 20 is a pretty solid level for it
It will be pretty funny seeing people in Showdown trying to make Volbeat/Swoobat with Tail Glow work lol
inland jewel
that and in BW, its found after the 1st gym, after that its next apperances are as swoobat
since they aren't officially out yet, people could run Ampharos instead
unless showdown already premptively removed tailglow from them when volbeat was announced
full bison
That might be a combo that can do stuff in UU
I feel like Ampharos has low enough Speed and Swoobat has low enough SpA that they'll just be ok stats wise, AKA not really strong enough to get a reasonable chance to boost
Could still be a fun ability for the game proper at least
Anyway, any guesses on what Sapphire will vote in?
My guesses are either Clawitzer, Araquanid, or Wishiwashi
summer apex
It will be pretty funny seeing people in Showdown trying to make Volbeat/Swoobat...
I could see it working in doubles with a Follow Me mon tbh
speed would be killer though
maybe a choice scarf charge beam build instead?
swap in, get a revenge ko and simultaneously setup for a possible sweep
full bison
I'll be honest, thinking about relying on Charge Beam for my sole offensive output makes me nauseous
summer apex
we love gambling
full bison
That move is NOT 90% accurate. The game is lying about it. It misses like half the time I use it
Insert MandJTV meme here
That move was all I could rely on when I used Eelektrik for like 5 levels, and it was hell until I could replace it with Thunderbolt
inland jewel
it could pop an agility, but with those stats it won't survie the 2nd hit
full bison
Those are definitely not the stats of something that can afford to Double Dip on buff moves
A Stored Power would hurt like hell tho
inland jewel
i think the better chance is getting it on a tanky mon and hoping for an omniboost
play as if you won't get the omni but if it hits then you're set
full bison
Cloyster would be worth a shot if Shell Smash was legal
full bison
Already? The hell can Bibarel fuse with that would make such an OP creation?
inland jewel
volcarona
full bison
Volcarona is banned too
inland jewel
i think they banned simple first, and then banned volc later
but bibarrel can run with any ddance/qdance user
it tanky enough
molten loom
Or anything with cotton guard and get +6 defense instantly
Or with altaria it can do that + dragon dance
full bison
Xurkitree getting added could make for a busted Simple fusion, but that assumes Xurkitree doesn't get immediately banned on sight
Xurkitree is basically SpA Rampardos, it just needs to be fused with something that has useable Speed and it's immediately insane
unkempt stone
Woobat and Swoobat Waowie
lofty spindle
Woobat and Swoobat Waowie
Well, they have nice abilities to play with.
hidden relic
if sapphire picks some shit like zebstrika or pachirisu ill die
You had your showdown mon last time 
subtle meteor
Is there any knowledge if Pif-Hoenn might include the mega mechanic?
spiral musk
pretty unlikely
sleek nest
Is there any knowledge if Pif-Hoenn might include the mega mechanic?
that would mean MORE work in order to make the mechanic work, which would be practically impossible to do
inland jewel
Is there any knowledge if Pif-Hoenn might include the mega mechanic?
pretty much guarenteed zero since the main gimmick of this game is fusion,
The dev doesn't want to add additional gimmicks on top of that
so we can pretty much never see megas, z-crystals, dynamax or terra types
lunar field
iirc, megas used to be the default sprite for double fusions of pokemon that had 'em
and double fusions had a little stat boost
inland jewel
and double fusions had a little stat boost
doubles do not have stat boosts anymore
the only thing doubles gives is trade exp but doesn't act as a trade mon
lunar field
doubles do not have stat boosts anymore
hence the past tense
prime dust
the closest thing we have to another gimmick is for Necrozma
and that is just Necrozmium
to go even further beyond into Ultra
orchid hearth
Will Pif hoenn have the updated modern stats and move-pools?
inland jewel
Will Pif hoenn have the updated modern stats and move-pools?
nothing past gen 7 will be added
maybe stats but def not movepools
gusty spindle
frog reacted
Français
trail hull
oui
full bison
guys the channel name changed
Meanwhile the other channels are kill
At least the Ruby chat is
trail hull
Meanwhile the other channels are kill
At least the Ruby chat is
ruby chat doesn't exist anymore?
velvet root
Nooo our chat is gone without warning qwq
full bison
Guess only Sapphire got to live
viscid fossil
Typing was overrated anyway
trail hull
meanwhile saphire chat is alive and filing up with propaganda
full bison
I have absolutely no influence on the vote, but I will silently hope for Clawitzer or Araquanid
Eelektross would be cool too
velvet root
weak trellis
I'm hoping yall throw us an ice or electric type instead of the many water and flying options
velvet root
https://tenor.com/view/durant-pokemon-gif-9807792
full bison
Honestly the only Ice type I have any confidence of being good in the concept of Fusion is Cryogonal who was Emerald
Maybe Beartic, but it's not guaranteed it will get Slush Rush, which is the big selling point of it
trail hull
I personally gave my extra vote to vanilluxe
velvet root
Maybe Beartic, but it's not guaranteed it will get Slush Rush, which is the big ...
Why wouldnt it?
It got the ability in gen 7
full bison
Why wouldnt it?
It got the ability in gen 7
Cause Milotic and Wigglytuff got an ability in Gen 6 that they don't have in PIF
velvet root
Fun fact
Beartic is walking on 2 and 4 legs
velvet root
Cause Milotic and Wigglytuff got an ability in Gen 6 that they don't have in PIF
And what did suggsestions say about it?
full bison
I personally gave my extra vote to vanilluxe
Vanilluxe would probably be the best option for Snow Warning, given it has the closest thing to an actual stat spread of all the options
autumn radish
Huh, didn't expect that.
viscid fossil
is there supposed to be swoobat on the form
We get Twoobat.
autumn radish
Heh, i think Gastrodon would be a viable choice.
Would add Storm Drain for some wacky Fire/Ground or Rock/Ground trolling against trainers who uses water-types.
Don't get me wrong, i will accept Vanilluxe as well (more ice-types to the mix), but for now my priority lies on Gastrodon.
weak trellis
I mean we already have quagsire who does exactly that
so basically just a special attacking quagsire with better overall stats
molten loom
is there supposed to be swoobat on the form
iirc frog said wanted to see something with it there
rain locust
oh
trail hull
Does the ruby + emerald team has a chat channel or just a vote channel
rain locust
only vote
trail hull
Oh okay
gray stream
spice sage
iirc frog said wanted to see something with it there
I just want the data because I'm curious
trail hull
Please share all the data once the poll end 🙏
tender plank
or atleast DM me the placement of Carracosta in both polls 🙏
i don't need the other data i just need what i need
sudden jackal
Hi frog 🐸
velvet root
or atleast DM me the placement of Carracosta in both polls 🙏
Obv winner
I gave it my bonus for you
trail hull
Is the vote deadline for your team also the 13rd?
spiral musk
yep
full bison
Thirteerd
inland jewel
funfact: If you make Drampa's trainer cry it burns your house down
viral latch
WAIT ITS COMING TO HOENN!!!!!!???
fallen loom
Types by %:
39/46 Dragon Types (84.78%)
37/44 Ghost Types (84.09%)
52/64 Ground Types (81.25%)
48/62 Rock Types (77.42%)
51/66 Poison Types (77.27%)
33/46 Dark Types (71.74%)
94/132 Water Types (71.21%)
59/84 Psychic Types (70.24%)
71/102 Flying Types (69.61%)
34/49 Steel Types (69.39%)
45/65 Fire Types (69.23%)
24/35 Ice Types (68.57%)
32/49 Electric Types (65.31%)
71/110 Normal Types (64.55%)
62/97 Grass Types (63.92%)
29/47 Fairy Types (61.7%)
47/77 Bug Types (61.04%)
32/55 Fighting Types (58.18%)
thin pawn
Wow you Emeruby members have really ugly names
flint tiger
I’m not sure, I was only mentioning hatterene because it’s another (insert thing) and it will (insert violent reaction)
thin pawn
Hatterene isn't being added, it's a gen 8 mon
velvet root
Types by %:
39/46 Dragon Types (84.78%)
37/44 Ghost Types (84.09%)
52/64 Ground ...
So Durant is good
viral latch
how do you join a team?
flint tiger
funfact: If you make Drampa's trainer cry it burns your house down
because this was said is why I mentioned hatterene
velvet root
how do you join a team?
Build a time machine and go back a month
viral latch
oh sorry kinda a lurker
thin pawn
I don't think you can anymore unfortunately
viral latch
its cool
fallen loom
so are we gettinig two more lines or is it Sapphire Vs. Emeruby picks?
viral latch
Emeruby is better anyways
fallen loom
Emerunnerup
viral latch
grew up on ruby and emerald, Groudon is cooler
thin pawn
nuh uh
fallen loom
you still have to pick from Sapphire mon
velvet root
so are we gettinig two more lines or is it Sapphire Vs. Emeruby picks?
2 lines
Depending on winning mons
viral latch
where can i catch up on all this info?
fallen loom
so if Burmy and Panpour, then 6 lines?
fallen loom
where can i catch up on all this info?
There was a spriting competition and we won
velvet root
so if Burmy and Panpour, then 6 lines?
4 lines since Burmy is one line
fallen loom
Choices
fallen loom
4 lines since Burmy is one line
Burmy is 3 in IF
velvet root
But as far as I heard Counterpart mons are likely to come together
velvet root
Burmy is 3 in IF
Yeah but not lines
Also it 4 evos
Nah wait base Burmy is each one too
Its weird
fallen loom
it counts as 3 lines because of the Burmy forms being separate Pokémon
velvet root
Its 3 lines that can evolve in the same pokemon
Now I should be right
I forgot that Burmy has a diffrent form too
fallen loom
Woobat was not my choice, I would have gone for something cooler
or lamer
Araquanid
velvet root
I really like Woobat tbf
fallen loom
bald Woobat ruined it for me
fallen loom
I want:
Araquanid
Eelectross
Karrablast
Shelmet
Dragalge
Toxicroak
inland jewel
so are we gettinig two more lines or is it Sapphire Vs. Emeruby picks?
its both
its just whatever Sapphire votes in, and if its also Emeruby's vote then we default to the 2nd most populr
fingers crossed for Drampa and Dragalge
fallen loom
we'd only have 5 Dragons left then and only 2 are non-legendary/UB
fallen loom
Druddigon
Zygarde
Dragalge
Turtonator
Drampa
Guzzlord
Naganadel
minus Dragalge and Drampa, we're left with 5
inland jewel
Druddigon
Zygarde
Dragalge
Turtonator
Drampa
Guzzlord
Naganadel
you do know that Turtonator and Druddigon are non-legends right
inland jewel
ooh, what you mean is IF Drampa and Dragalge get in we are left with 2 taht are non-legends
fallen loom
yes
velvet root
steep glen
Huh havent been in this discord in a while
velvet root
Btw I am open for everyone to make a Ant fusion!
I will add until its full!
thin pawn
Heatmor is such a Gen 6 Pokémon at heart
How so
velvet root
Many run with protect through the areas that have Heatmor and Durant
Mostly cuz Victory road is basically a giant durANThill
fallen loom
but it's annoying when it's a really good move (like physical electric) that we need
also Morpeko is the only electric Pikaclone not to learn Nuzzle
summer apex
got its sig move there
Fire Lash came in gen 7 actually
Heatmor had to be a Basic Bitch™ for two whole generations
thin pawn
Filler pokemon
gilded eagle
a bit late but YA more bat pokemon
vital spire
I always assumed Fire Lash was Centiskorch's sig. Huh.
full bison
Easy mistake to make considering Centiskorch is an actual memorable Pokemon
thin pawn
True!
viscid fossil
And you can't even catch heatmor in any gen 7 game
Why did they give a new move to a transfers exclusive
gray vine
obtuse silo
trail hull
I really wander what will be the emeruby results since they have twice as much members
inland jewel
x3 as much members sice Eerald had about the size of the otehr two teas cobied
trail hull
yeah my bad
naive rain
Wait PIF hoenn is out?
sudden jackal
Wait PIF hoenn is out?
No where close
fallen loom
who do you want in not in the vote for any team?
I want Cosmog line
Necrozma, Solgaleo and Lunana triple fusion should have been Ultra Necrozma
viscid fossil
Yeah but that's how it's made in terminal montage's legendary battle Royale and that's whta really counts
fallen loom
because the triple will just wind up inferior
full bison
who do you want in not in the vote for any team?
Ultra Beasts in general
gray stream
same
open merlin
Idk about yall, im just waiting for pif:unova, only gen 5 pokemon, with the option to keep it that way post game
thin pawn
in 2038
fallen loom
I want UBs in, but staggered so they're not all added all at once
vital spire
Hatterene, Corviknight, and Alcremie would be awesome additions if Gen 8-9 Pokémon weren't apparently a nightmare to implement.
grave jolt
I think Corviknight would be a great addition for both gameplay and fusions, but I'm satisfied with Sub Gen 8
Though having a Wooloo would be cool too tbh
We got Mareep though
full bison
Glimmora, Revavroom, Tinkaton, and Toxitricity would be so fun if Gen 8+ was allowed
thin pawn
Ceruledge my beloved
Tinkaton could make some sickass fusions though
I could only imagine the amount of sonic ones
autumn radish
I agree.
Falinks, Indeedee, Corviknight, Polteageist, Dracovish, Pawmot, Maushold, Armarouge, Ceruledge, Garganacl, Annihilape and Kingambit would also be fun.
Like, let's imagine a fusion of Armarouge and any pokemon with a good special attack. Bam, you got a powerful mon that can get STAB with its respective type, and more moves to boot.
Or even better, an Armarouge/Lurantis fusion with Contrary, using Armor Cannon to deal damage AND boost its defenses.
steel linden
is PIFH its own game or an extention of the current game?
rough wraith
is PIFH its own game or an extention of the current game?
Its own game
steel linden
will the current game still be in development once the new one gets released or is it kinda done?
ive not been paying attention to this server as of late
steel linden
kk
tough shore
will the current game still be in development once the new one gets released or ...
“This game has already been in the works for a decade, but I have no intention to stop improving it anytime soon. Speaking of which, I do have a new exciting announcement about something we've been cooking up: 👀”
From the way the announcement was worded, i believe it should be, after all you are gonna be able to transfer your pokemon between the games, so if new pokemon get added, it would be on both versions
thin pawn
Fair criticism
It definitely does not fit pokemon's artstyle at all, despite how loose that artstyle is nowadays
But I think it looks cool so I like it
summer apex
I'll openly admit the design is cool
vital spire
Meowscarada in PIF would be peak.
trail hull
I'll openly admit the design is cool
Design yes but stylistically what the hell is it doing in Pokémon
tropic dew
Design yes but stylistically what the hell is it doing in Pokémon
To be fair, I think it's a Hitoshi Ariga design, and that guy was fairly prolific back in the day for working on his Mega Man manga.
winter raven
Hi hi anyone hear of a release date yet?
quaint matrix
Tinkaton could make some sickass fusions though
In aesthetic and in play because dear god her stats are abysmal for being a Steel/Fairy
thin pawn
I'm shocked they had the restraint to give it bad attack stats
quaint matrix
I kinda get it
After Steel/Fairy mons completely dominate (Mawile, Klefki, both Zacians) they probably have the foresight to go "oh this typing is insane so let's just make the mon stats mediocre to compensate"
sudden jackal
In aesthetic *and* in play because dear god her stats are abysmal for being a St...
Ikr when sv came out and everyone was going off about how good it is I was so confused since it's stats suck for a final Evo
quaint matrix
Which of course ignores the fact that those guys are either tricky little shits (Klefki, Mawile) or hard hitting devil (Mega Mawile, both Zacians) which Tinkaton can't do either of
thin pawn
After Steel/Fairy mons completely dominate (Mawile, Klefki, both Zacians) they p...
They obviously knew what they were doing but with how gen 9 balances mons I wouldn't have been terribly shocked if they gave the pokemon with the greatest typing and strongest signature move good attacking stats
quaint matrix
Yeah that too like
thin pawn
Like Gigaton Hammer is busted and only held back by tinkaton not being very strong
quaint matrix
They kinda shot themselves not acknowledging that Tera exists
thin pawn
How so
quaint matrix
Well typing sometimes can be entirely redundant with mons being able to just change types on the whim (even if only mono)
It doesn't fix Tinkaton hilariously so
Like Avalugg can be great now because it can be anything else other than mono Ice
weak trellis
gen 7/9 feels like if you seperate a mon from its move/ability then one of them becomes hilariously overtuned and the other becomes downright awful rofl
full bison
gen 7/9 feels like if you seperate a mon from its move/ability then one of them ...
Garganacl becoming the only good Rock tank cause it got both an overtuned signature ability and a similarly bonkers signature move
quaint matrix
Garganacl becoming the only good Rock tank cause it got both an overtuned signat...
Yeah who knew being able to resist Ghost is insane
All Rocks should've fucking got that resistance but noooooo
full bison
Rock resisting Ghost doesn't make that much sense aside from Garganacl being salt and the superstitions around that, but Rock does need more resistances and Ghost needs more things that resist it
hardy remnant
Ghosts can just go through rocks realistically.
viscid fossil
ghosts can just go through psychics realistically 
weak trellis
it's more that salt cure not going away on the user's switch like every other passive damage move is huge in a meta that revolves entirely around switching like singles and it not going away ever allows it to contribute well for doubles and in-game as well
hardy remnant
it's more that salt cure not going away on the user's switch like every other pa...
Wait, it never goes away?
weak trellis
yea the only way to end the effect is for the affected pokemon to switch out
actually I guess there is precedent for both effects: Leech seed
hardy remnant
Oh, okay. But that just means it is like Leech Seed.
weak trellis
which on paper is probably even stronger than salt cure aside from grasses being immune to it (and it being a status move that's not 100% accurate)
viscid fossil
there are 2 kinds of dot
weak trellis
actually rapid spin can get rid of leech seed but not salt cure yea
viscid fossil
-the target can't switch out
-the target has to switch out
granted the only other instance of the latter I can think of is curse
which is curse
hardy remnant
granted the only other instance of the latter I can think of is curse
which is c...
Curse still allows the target to switch out.
weak trellis
so do Salt Cure and Leech Seed
viscid fossil
Curse still allows the target to switch out.
...that's what I said
hardy remnant
...that's what I said
I misread, but most moves that are damage over time have that second one.
quaint matrix
Rock resisting Ghost doesn't make that much sense aside from Garganacl being sal...
I think it's exactly because of that superstition thing that Rock should be able to resist Ghost
There's still a lot of types that have less justification to resist things
cough Fairy resisting Bug cough
hardy remnant
The fairy type is just overpowered.
quaint matrix
Yes that but also
viscid fossil
I misread, but most moves that are damage over time have that second one.
eh, I can really only think of the partial trapping moves like fire spin and whirpool
And the secret third option of field effects that do dot like gigantimax charizard and fire pledge
hardy remnant
Gigantimax Charizard, Venusaur, Blastoise, and Coalossal all have the same G-max move effects.
weak trellis
imo fairy feels more powerful on paper since a lot of its actual users tend to be a bit.. underwhelming? it kinda feels like Ground actually where if it pops off it really pops off but there's still a variable graveyard of those that didn't quite make the cut
quaint matrix
Idk Ground got a lot of OP mons associated with it and it's never really the fact that its Ground
It's still a lot more balanced than Fairy is still even if Fairy has more underwhelming mons associated with it
full bison
Ground is undeniably amazing but I definitely don't think it's unbalanced
quaint matrix
It helps that the weaknesses it has are types already pretty strong (Water, Ice, I'd argue Grass too, maybe the weakest weaknesses Ground got)
full bison
Flying being immune to it helps a lot too
grave jolt
imo fairy feels more powerful on paper since a lot of its actual users tend to b...
How many Gen 7 or less fairy type pokemon are even OU?
clear lichen
How many Gen 7 or less fairy type pokemon are even OU?
Clefable
But that's more so because Magic Guard is crazy
(Fairy does play a big part too though)
median fox
The thing fairy type has going for it competitively (I don’t keep up with smogen ever so I can’t talk on any of there stuff)
Is the strong fairy types are GOD levels of strong
A good example being xerneas who was so overwhelmingly strong out of spite people stopped it from winning worlds
clear lichen
Fairy is a broken type but like
Some of the most notable Fairy types are mf Wigglytuff
And Wigglytuff could be like
A type that resisted everything
And hit everything for SE
And it'd still be NU at best
As in notable in popularity
Because if it wasn't obvious Wigglytuff is the opposite of notable competitively
grave jolt
of the 64 fairy types I counted on Smogon for Sun / Moon, I counted
2 ubers (Arceus and Xerneas)
9 OU (Clefable, Azumarill, Mega Diance, Magearna, Mega Mawile, and the 4 Tapu's)
clear lichen
Old gen Pokemon generally just can't keep up with newer gen Pokemon
Powercreep's a bitch
Like look at mf Flutter Mane
grave jolt
Luckily PIF is locked to before the creep got REALLY bad 🥴
clear lichen
Luckily PIF is locked to before the creep got REALLY bad 🥴
Idk, Magearna's a pretty horrid Pokemon when it comes to powercreep
I think it's Ubers in every later appearance it makes
Being one of the few Pokemon to give powercreep the finger
Because it's just that overtuned
Or yknow receiving buffs, directly or indirectly
median fox
Honestly I think it isn’t really fairy types fault cause it was kinda slapped on a bunch of mons once it appeared to make them more then just normal types
grave jolt
I think it's Ubers in every later appearance it makes
I literally just posted that it was OU
median fox
Being one of the few Pokemon to give powercreep the finger
Amoongus will always be my favourite also cause of this
clear lichen
I literally just posted that it was OU
And I said it was only OU in Gen 7
So I don't see how that conflicts with what I said when you're looking at Gen 7
For example, in Gen 9 it became an absolutely horrendous facilitator of Trick Room
clear lichen
You edited it 😔
I edited it from Uber's to Ubers
That's literally the edit
Poor grammar
Or punctuation whatever
Who cares
And that's the only thing I edited
grave jolt
It is competatively viable in Ubers in gen 7 though which is still big
clear lichen
Volcarona's another Pokemon that is just completely unphased by powercreep
Mainly because a lot of new additions to the series massively buff it
One of the best abusers of Heavy-Duty Boots, a top 3 item in Singles, arguably top 1
grave jolt
gotta love SPIKES
clear lichen
One of the best abusers of Tera, probably the 2nd strongest mechanic
One of the best abusers of Z Moves
Which tbh is probably the weakest of the universal mechanics
But whatever
It's still very strong
I LOVE TYPOS
grave jolt
clear lichen
Funny I typod very strong as very string, considering the bug Z Move involves wrapping the opponent up in a shitload of string
Volcarona didn't get anything in Gen 6 and is technically UUBL there but even then it's like a top 10 Pokemon
Because Smogon Tiering is uhh
Flawed to say the least
grave jolt
We gotta get mega volcarona one of these days
clear lichen
Better than nothing though
median fox
Ferrathorn is another one who’s solid all the time
Not great but consistent
clear lichen
Ferrathorn is another one who’s solid all the time
Not great but consistent
Ferrothorn is great though tbh
It's like a constant A+ tier Pokemon, if not straight up S tier
median fox
Torkoal assuming it’s a non restricted format is one STRONG trickroom non
grave jolt
clear lichen
And this applies not just to OU, but also to Ubers
Because Ferrothorn's the fucking GOAT
And Grass/Steel is incredibly potent
grave jolt
Steel is top 1 as a type, and ferrothorn is amazing
median fox
It's like a constant A+ tier Pokemon, if not straight up S tier
True
Wish he was in this gen
(I only know vgc to so my take on sogen is bias against it due to how much I dislike the limitations of the tiers even if there’s a good reason)
clear lichen
No other type can fill the role Grass/Steel does
Grass/Steel is unironically a top 2 defensive type
Quad weakness be damned
clear lichen
Ghost darks like the best one isn’t it’
Certainly not, it doesn't have nearly enough resistances even if it only has 1 weakness
grave jolt
median fox
Yea true
clear lichen
Fairy/Steel I'd say is the other contender
clear lichen
And honourable mentions go to Flying/Steel, Water/Steel, Ghost/Steel... yeah, you get the point
Bug/Steel
Uhh
What else
median fox
With megas returning there’s a solid chance he will become the first to win 4 times
grave jolt
clear lichen
Bug/Steel is purely defensive is the reason why it isn't the greatest on Scizor
median fox
Yee
clear lichen
But even then the defensive prowess benefits it more than the offensive shittiness holds it back
grave jolt
Bug steel would be good if we got one with wonder guard 😔
median fox
Honestly a decent chunk of mons are still consistent after so long
Some old ones just suck
clear lichen
Also Technician Bullet Punch is ICONIC
median fox
A lot of legendarys back then just got handed levitate and pressure and have like no real use cause of them having kinda pointless abilitys that stop them from keeping up now
clear lichen
It's like Quiver Dance to Volcarona, technically other Pokemon get it
median fox
Deoxys could be good if they had
Any ability that helped a gameplan of such gimmicky pokemon
clear lichen
But you'd be lying to yourself if you said Scizor isn't the first thing that comes to mind with "Technician Bullet Punch"
Like you aren't gonna think Hitmontop lmfao
median fox
levitate is decent
Yes but in a tier of pokemon that other abilities outshine it so massively
clear lichen
Levitate is definitely a strong ability
median fox
It’s why kyogre and groudon remain solid no matter the competition
clear lichen
Giratino-O would suffer quite a lot if it had it taken away
And I'd say Giratina-O's doing well for itself in Singles more so than Mr "C Tier" Groudon
median fox
He already suffers vgc wise
median fox
I actively just know nothing about smogen and stay happy with that cause of bias I’m
Essentially talking purely on vgc
grave jolt
Imagine if Deoxys had like corrosion
median fox
Groudons still good rn vgc he’s just not as good due to the double restricted format
clear lichen
And tbh hasn't been a strong OU presence since like
median fox
And salamance is
Probably back to normal buisness soon with it getting mega back
grave jolt
or if Mewtwo had download
clear lichen
...
Wait, Salamence has genuinely only been an OU staple in 1 Generation
Wtf
Strong OU presence in Gen 3
median fox
This is partially why I don’t look at smogen
I prefer the format changes vgc does that give everything a chance to shine at least once
clear lichen
Ubers in Gen 4
Mid in Gen 5
Bad in Gen 6
But the Mega is like the 3rd best Mega in the game though
median fox
Yep
clear lichen
But in Singles it just can't compare to Mega Ray or Mega Gengar
median fox
It’s also just a reliable mon for a team (not in the current format)
grave jolt
Wait, Salamence has genuinely only been an OU staple in 1 Generation
Flying type is a detriment to dragons :/
Mega Sal gives it the boost to anihilate anything in its path
grave jolt
But in Singles it just can't compare to Mega Ray or Mega Gengar
tbf nothing compares to megarayquazza
clear lichen
Flying type is a detriment to dragons :/
Mega Sal gives it the boost to anihilat...
Certainly not a detriment when the Dragon actually fucking has Flying STAB
And Mega Mence proves it by just
Only running Flying STAB
By Flying STAB
median fox
I love that mega ray probably isn’t the best in vgc
I don’t remember who the best was
clear lichen
I mean FUCK IT WE AERILATE DOUBLE EDGE
grave jolt
clear lichen
Also Mega Ray is only like
Idk, 5th best Pokemon of all time
Or something
I can't see it holding up vs Gen 8 Zacian, Gen 9 Calyrex or Gen 1 Mewtwo
median fox
Oh no best mega for vgc was kangaskan forgot about that
clear lichen
And you can argue for Miraidon being better too but that's arguable
median fox
I can't see it holding up vs Gen 8 Zacian, Gen 9 Calyrex or Gen 1 Mewtwo
Mewtwo was strong due to environment mostly
1 third of the roster of possible mons are poison types back then
clear lichen
1 third of the roster of possible mons are poison types back then
And they're all garbage
Not exclusively because of Mewtwo
Because every fucking tier has a strong Psychic type until like
NU?
median fox
True
But still is a big part of why mewtwo was so strong
clear lichen
PU?
I forgot
Heck, OU has multiple
Exeggutor, Starmie, Alakazam are like
The 4th, 5th and 6th best OU Pokemon
grave jolt
Gen 1 pokemon were facing a gen 4 pokemon in mew2
Also Psychic was literally broken
median fox
You just reminded me your talking singles and I’m talking doubles cause alakazam is just
Nonexistent
clear lichen
I mean the ways Psychic was literally broken doesn't fucking matter
Because who the fuck is running Lick Gengar
Figuratively it is also fucking broken
median fox
Exeggutor is a wolfie type mon to
clear lichen
Psychic's fall from grace has been studied a lot
But it is still extremely crazy to think about
grave jolt
Mega Ray is my 2nd favorite pokemon
median fox
It’s had a comeback imo
But it’s like always with trickroom setups or super specific things
clear lichen
Its entire viability hinging on Psychic Terrain is not a good sign
clear lichen
And I genuinely struggle to name good Psychic types that would not rather have a different type
Calyrex Shadow would arguably be better as a Bug/Ghost type
grave jolt
They buffed ghost into one of if not the best types in the game, and never let Psychic have anything ever again
😔
clear lichen
Because now it has STAB for the Dark types that usually troubles it so much
median fox
Honestly that sounds like a bad idea
clear lichen
Instead of a secondary type whose best application is to run Psyshock to hit Blissey when realistically you should just use Trick or swap out of Twave
grave jolt
Make Calyrex Shadow Fairy/Ghost to complete Fairy type's domination of the game
clear lichen
Make Calyrex Shadow Fairy/Ghost to complete Fairy type's domination of the game
Calyrex Shadow being Fairy/Ghost would make me mald so hard
Because Lunala should be Fairy/Ghost
Fuck alchemy
It's literally the moon Pokemon
And both non signature moon moves are Fairy type
Not to mention its best Psychic move before Gen 9 via level up was a competition between Hypnosis and Confusion
clear lichen
Then the dogs
Only 1 dog is a fairy
grave jolt
the dog*
clear lichen
Behemoth Bash still should scale off Defence
median fox
Yes it should
grave jolt
Behemoth bash should have been put into an earlier generation 😔
clear lichen
And also can we talk about how fucking stupid it is that they made Body Press and Zamazenta in the same generation
grave jolt
Imagine defense behemoth Bash Bastiodon
clear lichen
BUT THEN DIDN'T GIVE IT BODY PRESS UNTIL 1 GEN LATER
median fox
Is there something showdown related that goes by vgcs format instead of the smogen thing
clear lichen
Is there something showdown related that goes by vgcs format instead of the smog...
The VGC formats are playable on Showdown
median fox
The VGC formats are playable on Showdown
Ok just wanted to ask there
grave jolt
Body Press Bastiodon
vital spire
Would help it not be Taunt bait.
clear lichen
Bastiodon already has Bpress in Gen 9, no?
Doesn't save it from being utter garbage
vital spire
Does it?
clear lichen
But still
Like sure 168 Defence
But 1: No STAB
2: 80 BP
3: You still have a shit type
4: Hardwalled by Ghosts
vital spire
What's wrong with 80 BP?
median fox
I wanted bastiodon to be good so badly
clear lichen
(And a lot of them use Taunt)
grave jolt
You do be right
clear lichen
5: Still has shit HP
clear lichen
What's wrong with 80 BP?
80's kinda just
Subpar
It isn't bad but you'll definitely notice the lack of power
median fox
Honestly once this current format ends I’ll go back into trying to play vgc stuff if I can get a new console
clear lichen
Especially if you don't have STAB
median fox
I’m not a fan of double restricted formats hard
vital spire
I never really noticed. I use moves with 75 BP regularly, and it always works out great.
clear lichen
I never really noticed. I use moves with 75 BP regularly, and it always works ou...
I mean in a playthrough context yeah I'd imagine
Competitively speaking though, 75 BP is just
Don't use it
Unless you're Rock Slide in Doubles
median fox
Mono restricted be like:
Kyogre
Honestly I prefer when I’ll see like 20 different teams around the same restricted each versus this
“Mmm who to pair with my two sweepers who I must bring to every battle”
clear lichen
But if you're Rock Slide in Singles prepare to get replaced by Stone Edge and
checks notes
grave jolt
Gotta terranormal + bodypress smh
clear lichen
Loaded Dice Rock Blast
vital spire
Brick Break is one I like to put on my mons.
median fox
I love teratypes imo
Same with megas
Didn’t like the dynamax stuff though
Megas are just hype
Teras have so much depth and different uses
vital spire
I like all the gimmicks except Z-Moves.
median fox
Dynamax just felt like a worse mega
clear lichen
Tera is a very divisive mechanic
grave jolt
THEY KILLED THE FUNNY ROCK BUG
clear lichen
Some people fucking hate it
median fox
I like all the gimmicks except Z-Moves.
Correction two gimmicks I didn’t like
median fox
Zmoves are just forgettable
clear lichen
Arguably more broken than Zacian or Mega Rayquaza or Calyrex Shadow
median fox
Arguably more broken than Zacian or Mega Rayquaza or Calyrex Shadow
Or xerneas
clear lichen
Actually the worst to play against
vital spire
THEY KILLED THE FUNNY ROCK BUG
It's weird because I could have SWORN I've seen it in SV.
clear lichen
Z Moves are like whatever, they aren't utterly broken at least
median fox
Z moves lack the hype feeling
clear lichen
Z moves lack the hype feeling
Idk though, the Z Move names go hard as fuck
grave jolt
Mega's were great, Zmoves were forgettable, Dynamax was boring and bad, and terra feels like they weren't even trying
clear lichen
Tera sounded interesting before Gen 9 came
median fox
The other 3 at least nail that
Tera is decisive as it is complex from a vgc standpoint
Megas are always hype
Z moves had cool names but that doesn’t help much more
clear lichen
Then I played a few mid ladder matches
median fox
Like
I prefer using Tera’s offensively so I’ll usually have my team built mostly around that usage
grave jolt
> Tera Fairy
> Win
clear lichen
"Guess which turn your opponent will pull out a Tera Type at a time so random with such a random type that it feels like they just spun a wheel"
median fox
Tera fire torkoal one me a few close knit tournaments
vital spire
Stellar Tera Blast Contrary Serperior, my beloved.
clear lichen
Can't wait to be hit by Tera Psychic Psycho Cut Kingambit and lose the game off of that
grave jolt
clear lichen
I also want to note that Tera turns some Pokemon literally unwallable
grave jolt
Ghost looks especially stupid
clear lichen
So I hope you kill it before it kills you
median fox
I kinda love king gambit or the long piranha cause of how clutch they can be
They are the hype man
clear lichen
Or like
Win a predict
But Singles was predict heavy as is, Tera I feel pushes it over the edge for me
Without Tera I'm a fan of the prediction heavy meta
But with it, it becomes too overwhelming for me
grave jolt
Remember when people thought airbaloon Shedinja would be super OP?
clear lichen
Remember when people thought airbaloon Shedinja would be super OP?
And then it doesn't even exist
Tbf if it did exist it'd be like
Somewhat annoying
grave jolt
1 toxic
clear lichen
Unless your opponent is using their braincells and uses entry hazards and spinblockers
Then you swap to Heavy-Duty Boots
And force your opponent to guess between 18 fucking types
Or lose
Because that's fair
grave jolt
6 shedinja with different teratypes
clear lichen
The funniest part is that Tera is banned in NatDex OU
vital spire
If only Balanced Hackmons weren't neutered this gen.
grave jolt
They killed him for the crime of checks notes being unkillable
clear lichen
They killed him for the crime of *checks notes* being unkillable
Tbh Calyrex Shadow would still be more broken
That's just how fucking ridiculous it is
grave jolt
Shedinja got banished to the same place as patrat 😔
clear lichen
Actual like, 2? day quickban from Ubers
Which is quicker than like 99% of quickbans from OU
In a tier originally made to be the banlist
vital spire
What I really miss in BH is Innards Out Blissey.
clear lichen
What was Gamefreak thinking allowing Calyrex into Gen 9
Most broken Pokemon of all time perhaps
grave jolt
What if we banned powercreep pokemon to ubers 🤔
clear lichen
What if we banned powercreep pokemon to ubers 🤔
I mean
Flutter Mane, Iron Bundle, Palafin etc definitely count as powercreep right
Gen 9 actually has like
The most bans of every generation
grave jolt
You could ban nearly all of OU and it'd just be last gen OU p much
vital spire
Too much becomes worthless by proxy of being in a tier where it can't compete. That much happened to Cinderace back in Gen 8.
clear lichen
Because that's how much of a mess Gen 9 is competitively
(I still love Gen 9's roster outside of actually fighting them though lmao)
median fox
But Singles was predict heavy as is, Tera I feel pushes it over the edge for me
I don’t think a lot of it’s balanced based on singles
Like
Tera feels like it fits doubles in how it plays insanely well
Similar to groudon
clear lichen
Yeah Tera's probably more balanced for Doubles
grave jolt
Can't wait for gen 10 to introduce Ultraforms, which are like mega evolutions but only change stats and make your pokemon black and gold!
clear lichen
But apart from that it doesn't even feel like Gamefreak is balancing Doubles
Gen 9 is just so ridiculously over the top with powercreep
Like I think they're just adding shit they think is cool
median fox
They do balance it but not in extreme ways usually
clear lichen
Which I wouldn't mind if there wasn't an official Competitive format
median fox
Some significant ones are
Spore moves not affecting grass types
The multiple nerfs to all things thunderous was good at
clear lichen
How do you make an official tournament and still not bother making the tournament balanced
median fox
Prankster especially being one
clear lichen
No, in earlier gens I can see they're making some attempt at balancing
They just said "Fuck balancing" in later gens
grave jolt
They do balance it but not in extreme ways usually
The problem is that pokemon needs a total overhaul and releveling as a game series.
median fox
Never said it’s great balancing but there’s
Something there
clear lichen
Tbh in earlier gens Singles wasn't really being made unfun by powercreep even
Like even in Gen 8 Singles wasn't really unfun due to powercreep
median fox
Doubles just
Manages to (at least the ones I know of) keep power creep at bay
Up until much more recently
clear lichen
Gen 9's just horrible with powercreep
median fox
Current format is the big bad one
Shows th e power creep more then the last ones have
clear lichen
Also I'd say Groudon is balanced in/for Singles as well tbh
It's often an A+ or S tier but in the same way Lando-T is
grave jolt
I only really cared for singles myself tbh; Doubles is cool, but it needs a 0 restricted format to not be mostly boring to me.
median fox
4 big mons currently as I’ve seen em are ALL gen 9
Both restricted
Flutter and farig
Only non gen 9 consistent one there is the horses and incin
clear lichen
Incineroar has to have the most significant difference in performance between Singles and Doubles
median fox
Everything else is kinda just depends on the player but those 7 mons are the most common thing by far
grave jolt
I dropped gen 9 after the first couple formats just because watching gen 6 and 7 was more fun
median fox
Incineroar has to have the most significant difference in performance between Si...
Intimidate is alot better in doubles and his move pool is so good for being a supporting non
Mon
And supporting mons are REALLY important in doubles
clear lichen
I dont think Intimidate or being a support mon is what makes Incin that much better in Doubles than Singles
clear lichen
Those are both excellent qualities in Singles
median fox
So being the best user of one of the best abilities for a supporting non in doubles
clear lichen
Maybe it's the type?
median fox
Those are both excellent qualities in Singles
When incin isn’t I. Doubles every other intimidate user shows up strong and forefront
clear lichen
I mean Fire/Dark never strikes me as an outstanding type as a Singles player
But I see it brought up a lot as why Incineroar is so good
median fox
But it’s his typing move pool and ability that make him insane
clear lichen
It kinda just has like
median fox
He just outdoes
Every other intimidate user
clear lichen
4 absurdly crippling weaknesses
median fox
And it’s objectively never bad to have an intimidate user in doubles
clear lichen
And while it has good resistances I never felt like they were enough to make the type straight up good defensively
grave jolt
I mean Fire/Dark never strikes me as an outstanding type as a Singles player
It's alright
clear lichen
Definitely not bad defensively either
But like
Those are 4 of the worst weaknesses to have
Great offensively though
grave jolt
median fox
Having an intimidate user on your team is just a net buff instantly to any team regardless
clear lichen
Incineroar's low speed also really hurts
grave jolt
Hits 1/3 of all pokemon
median fox
Incineroar's low speed also really hurts
Not really for doubles funny enough
In fact nowadays he’s sometimes built into bulk instead of speed
But that’s cause trickrooms one of the staple team styles
clear lichen
And while it is decently bulky it isn't really bulky enough for OU standards
And never has been
median fox
So having your incin slower then the other can sometimes be the literal best thing
Mainly cause he’s so common
grave jolt
Hits 44% of type combos
clear lichen
So yeah I think it's mainly the type and stats making Incineroar so much better in Doubles than Singles
Not any sort of role or ability issue
Classic Alolan Speed stat
median fox
So yeah I think it's mainly the type and stats making Incineroar so much better ...
Ability is one of the big reasons he’s so good in doubles to
Mostly cause otherwise you’d have every other intimidate user on random teams
When incin shows up they all disapear into just him
He fulfills that role on a doubles team better then everyone else
clear lichen
Ability is one of the big reasons he’s so good in doubles to
Mostly cause otherw...
Yeah but the thing is, its ability and role are great in Singles too
So it isn't an issue on that front
Which is why I turn towards the type and stats instead
median fox
True but he doesn’t just full replace everyone else for his ability by simply existing
clear lichen
True but he doesn’t just full replace everyone else for his ability by simply ex...
Rather, Incineroar's the one being replaced as a supporting Pokemon with Intimidate
Or rather, it failed to replace someone
grave jolt
Might just be the culture? We should experiment to see what actually makes the difference
median fox
Yea
clear lichen
ahem ahem Lando-T
median fox
Arcanines another one who got taken outback any format incin shows up in
Those two just kinda poof once the tiger lands
grave jolt
pure Fire type with intimidate as its main thing
clear lichen
Yknow what now that you mention it
The 2 most notable Intimidate users are both tigers
Well, I think Lando-T is meant to be a tiger
It's meant to be a felid at least
median fox
I think so
They’re based on the genies of some sort so could probably fact-check it
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median fox
pure Fire type with intimidate as its main thing
Even the alternate arcanine version disappeared once incin popped in
clear lichen
Lando-T is synonymous with Singles OU, it's actually crazy
Sure, it's not the only Gen 5 Pokemon that has been great in every generation of OU it has been allowed in
But it's most often the one with the highest usage rate
median fox
Gen 5 Has some powerhouses
grave jolt
Even the alternate arcanine version disappeared once incin popped in
H-Arcanine isn't even that much better, it's just rock type now
clear lichen
Which says a lot since Ferrothorn's usage rate is also usually very high
median fox
2 vgc triple winners
A double winner
And a single
clear lichen
There's also Volcarona but even if it was excellent in older gens it wasn't used often
Because it is very much a high skill Pokemon in older gens
With all the sneaky pebbles floating around
You need to be able to manage them
grave jolt
Heavy boots
clear lichen
Heavy boots
Older gens
clear lichen
But yeah no Volcarona was still excellent even without the fine pair of shoes
clear lichen
When were boots introduced?
Gen 8
grave jolt
ah
clear lichen
Coincidentally the same gen Hidden Power was removed
It kinda feels like Gamefreak looked at HDB
And went
"Hey if Volcarona has both this and Hidden Power it'd be Ubers"
... Yknow, before Gen 9 came along
And revealed that Gamefreak does not care all that much about balancing
finite lance
Hey I have a question is this a Full Mod that already is ready for Download because I love Pif I did everything and defeated Gold but I dont know if you can already Download pif gönn if it already exists how can you Download it
median fox
I don’t think game freak looks at smogen at all
grave jolt
Another item I wish was in IF 😔
clear lichen
I don’t think game freak looks at smogen at all
Idk though hazards aren't a factor in Doubles
median fox
Gen 9 is a mess though
I kinda hope we don’t get paradox mons much longer
Like
grave jolt
Hey I have a question is this a Full Mod that already is ready for Download beca...
Not out yet
finite lance
Ok
clear lichen
So HDB being introduced feels almost tailor made for Singles
median fox
Idk though hazards aren't a factor in Doubles
Eh they used to be when you still could do stall teams
grave jolt
Imagine HDB in gen 5
clear lichen
With how centric Spikes, Tspikes and especially Stealth Rocks are
clear lichen
Imagine HDB in gen 5
Volcarona's suspect test would've gone very differently, that's for sure
median fox
T spikes stay winning in doubles on some moms