pif-hoenn-discussion

[clear lichen]

So not exactly a physical attacking Dancer user

And also already has 3 abilities too

Speaking of, maybe they could like

Use that other ability slot starters have

Idk

[summer apex]

hear me out

Spinda w/ Teeter Dance

[clear lichen]

Can you even call Spinda an attacker

Or a defender

[tropic dew]

Anyhow, another "region" I could see as a possible place to visit... Ferrum, the region that Pokken Tournament takes place in. It is reportedly based off of Iriomote Island, in the Okinawa Prefecture, but I mean... maybe if you squint?

[clear lichen]

Or a viable Pokemon at all

[tropic dew]

Not really seeing too much of a resemblance.

[clear lichen]

Especially in the context of Orre being postgame

[velvet root]

Sorry I am just at work and its a stressing day already

[clear lichen]

Also self confusion is not nice

[summer apex]

Bellossom is based on hula and Hitmontop is arguably based on capoeira

which is... kinda dancing

[clear lichen]

The former isn't a physical attacker

I'm tryna think of physical attacking Pokemon that could get Dancer

[summer apex]

I'm just trying to think of any other dance based pokemon at this point ngl

[clear lichen]

It's really only H-Lilligant (doesn't exist), Quaquaval (doesn't exist) and Kommo-O (Mixed and doesn't have the signature dancing move yet)

Yknow what

Every time you mention Quiver Dance in front of someone who has even a rudimentary knowledge of Competitive Pokemon, they will instantly think of Volcarona

Dancer Volcarona frfr

It even has a signature dancing move

Well, signature in the context of Gen 7 at least

QD is also the evolution move for Volcarona

Wait actually why does Volcarona have sick fucking moves

Like sis is apparently just GOATed at dancing

[tropic dew]

Well, we know for sure that he first four regions in the Pokemon games are officially based off of existing Japanese regions. Kanto and Johto being based off the neighboring regions of the same names, Hoenn being based off of Kyushu, and Sinnoh/Hisui being based off of Hokkaido.

Kitakami would presumably be the closest neighbor to Sinnoh, since it's inspired by the Tohoku region, but geographically resembles Iwate, Akita, and Aomori.

[tropic dew]

XD theme is superior in every way

[clear lichen]

He probably wouldn't appear but that's the fun of hypotheticals

[feral bridge]

What’s the one

That MandJTV uses

Cause that one

[clear lichen]

Last time I watched his videos (a hella long time ago) it was Colosseum

[feral bridge]

I believe so

That’s the more like

Fitting one for ludicolo right

[clear lichen]

Idk though Ludicolo literally dances on beat to the XD theme

[velvet root]

If we get Orre then I think he appears else no

[clear lichen]

Yeah so he ain't appearing

[velvet root]

Welp im exited for the post game of hoenn
If its in the region or in another
But I would like a region of a game noone expects

[clear lichen]

Ngl if Miror B ever reappears in the mainline games and doesn't have a Quaquaval while it is in the dex of the game I am quitting Pokemon

That'd be like the world's biggest missed opportunity

[feral bridge]

True

[tropic dew]

Miror B with Quaquaval, Oricorio, Ludicolo, and adjacent fusions would be peak

[white meadow]

Narritive wise it doesn't make sense. It is usually described as a "Distant Land" in the GBA games when trading Pokemon. The map is confirmed to be based on Arizona

[weak trellis]

back when pokemon was still leaving the phase of it just being Japan

(with it being literally just japan in gen 1 and slowly earth drifting away until, well, unova)

[muted quiver]

So will this be an entirely seperate game to base IF?

or will be like Kanto to HGSS, as like another version you can visit

[white meadow]

seperate game

It's why there's post-game speculation for PIF Hoenn

[muted quiver]

Will it have everything PIF has and more?

like will it be a sequel or a side game

or its own thing

[white meadow]

Sequel. You can transfer Pokemon from PIF to PIF Hoenn. But yeah, it's a separate game that will have all the Hoenn pokemon that weren't in PIF.

Everyone is waiting for at least the demo to release

[muted quiver]

alright coolio

that sounds pretty cool

and im assuming it will have all the pokemon IF has, plus all the new hoenn ones?

so I could use my team members from IF in IF Hoenn

[dusty arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/rouxls-kaard-rouxls-deltarune-entrance-gif-23640231

https://tenor.com/view/rouxls-rouxls-kaard-deltarune-nvm-gif-3288971893523549950

[gray stream]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-7938150689684025197

[summer apex]

Both games will be able to access the full shared dex through trading though some pokemon will be exclusive encounters to one or the other (outside of random)

[trail hull]

only 45 people until emerald has more then the combined amount of ruby and saphire

[molten loom]

it is a little absurd

[trail hull]

is the emerald chat super fast ? like people talk a lot?

[molten loom]

not super fast, and like only 1/25 of the team has actually talked there

[velvet root]

And not all of them are Spriters too

[sturdy frost]

https://tenor.com/view/northernlion-nl-mewing-rizz-rizz-face-gif-8483277023438224663

not even 1 bit of shame

[velvet root]

What?

What did I do

[proud lion]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-gif-8086630669522815021

[gray stream]

ymir is a non-spriter of team emerald

[velvet root]

oooh

I mean we do need non spriters too

[inland jewel]

some of the mons found in PIF cannot be found in hoenn

they will be transfer only

just like how outside of a randomizer, some of the mons found in the hoenn dex will not be in base PIF

[rose bloom]

oh its a whole seperate game and not an expansion so it wont have all the mons we currently have + the new ones?
Ngl thats actually super disappointing lol. I love endless mons to catch

[inland jewel]

to be fair, there is no more map space for hoenn to be added

so if they wanted to make it an expansion it would be severely gutted

[rose bloom]

like theres a technical limitation you mean?

[inland jewel]

yeah maps in the program frog uses goes up to 999

and going past that breaks it immensely

[rose bloom]

ahhh

[inland jewel]

or just has a lot of technical limitations that breaks stuff

the current pif project uses 800 or so

[rose bloom]

that makes sense then, a shame but i get it. Still a shame that we cant capture all mons in one game but I suppose if transfer is super easy then it wont be so bad

I still like the continuity of one trainer's journey yaknow

[inland jewel]

so they could condense all of hoenn into 100 maps, but that would make it severely limited

[rose bloom]

yeah nah in that case i understand making it a sequel so they can go the whole hog and all. just a shame it cant be done more smoothly

[inland jewel]

i mean, if frogman updates out of the 20yo game engine he could

[rose bloom]

yeah but changing engines is like

[inland jewel]

but that is an entirely different undertaking all together

[rose bloom]

a lot

[summer apex]

simply update the engine

[inland jewel]

yee, which is why PIF Hoenn is said to only be 6 months wait for a working demo

[rose bloom]

i imagine it was never imagined to get this big when he started it in RPG maker lol

not an engine you'd pick for a big game intentionally relaly

[inland jewel]

instead of like 5 years

to be fair, when he started working on this game, gen 7 was just releasd

now its on the verge of gen 10 being announced

[rose bloom]

is it intended to be like a sequel story-wise also? like are we going to canonically be the same trainer or a new character on a new journey?

[inland jewel]

we don't know

[rose bloom]

fair

[inland jewel]

people speculate you're going to be brandon/may, but then again there is the box transfer between games

plus the game will still have the customization update stuff

with outfits and hair etc

[rose bloom]

I wonder if they could implement something like how NG+ works within PIF, where your whole box would be transferred but reset to like level 5

I guess another reason for Hoenn to be a sequel is like... Kanto+Johto already takes you to like level 100 pretty much easily so there'd be no more levels left to play through hoenn too

[white meadow]

[lofty spindle]

Imagine we got the Orange Islands as an equivalent to Sevii.

...they were just a cool setting.

[rose bloom]

im actually not sure if ive played a base pokemon game set in hoenn

[lofty spindle]

https://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/7e/Valencia_Island.png

Look at this building on Valencia island, I love this aesthetic.

In general, I find island hopping settings with tiny yet urban settlements lots of fun.

[thin pawn]

Well we kinda have the sea race

[warm ferry]

I am also using rpg maker for my fangame just because Pokémon essentials exists to make my life easier

[rose bloom]

true, i imagine that helps a lot

[inland jewel]

RPGMaker is good for if you want a single region

if you want all 9 regions, its like the worst you can choose

[rose bloom]

its kinda nuts that there's a game engine that actually hard caps your map count arbitrarily in the first place to be honest lol

surprised no ones figured out how to hack it and bypass that

[inland jewel]

the thing is, you can get past the map limit, the way you have to do it is you have to do it from the beginning

[rose bloom]

what does 'from the beginning' mean? 🤔

[inland jewel]

Like when you're first creating your project the methods you have to eliminate the map limit has to start there

[rose bloom]

oh I see

and it cant and/or is a huge hassle to do later?

[inland jewel]

So mid-project like PIF is, thats a no go

[rose bloom]

I see

[inland jewel]

its a super huge hassle

like Frog could figure it out, but thats like a year or two of him making sure it doesn't break anything

and thats 1-2 years of no new updates/mons

not to mention if he does do it, he would have to spend a long time bug fixing

[rose bloom]

yeah no i get it, going back to do something like that is always a huge nightmare for stuff like this

[torn crane]

I hate tentacool horde

Hated Zubat too, until crobat came

[rose bloom]

my hot take is that golbat is cooler than crobat

[white meadow]

Funny thing is that Pokemon parodied Batman with Gligar instead of the Zubat line.

[rose bloom]

thats actually insane

[vagrant ferry]

Gliscor has a vampiric vibe so that kinda makes sense

[thin pawn]

It's a simple fact that Gligar line > Zubat line

[vagrant ferry]

but I guess people don’t associate Batman with vampires

[rose bloom]

I don't disagree but zubat is way closer to batman style and color than gligar!

[thin pawn]

This is true

But also Gliscor is more fitting than Crobat (Not that gliscor was a thing then)

[white meadow]

That's amazing

[tropic dew]

If PIF Hoenn is meant to be the PIF equivalent of the RSE/ORAS games, then it's going to be a new game that stars Brendan/May, and is apparently supposed to take place concurrently with PIF/FRLG, timeline-wise.

It's also suggested that PIF takes place before D/P/Pt, so a PIF timeline would go something like this:

PIF/PIF Hoenn
PIF version of HG/SS + D/P/Pt

Jury's out on whether X/Y also takes place within the same timeframe as HG/SS + D/P/Pt in this scenario, or if it would be a little bit further into the future.

[quaint matrix]

It's the flapper wings Gligar line has

Or whatever it's called

[tropic dew]

as ORAS is confirmed to take place before X/Y in the timeline where Mega Evos exist

[quaint matrix]

The thing flying squirrels have

[tropic dew]

Patagium?

[quaint matrix]

Yeah

[tropic dew]

But yeah, timeline stuff... I feel like X/Y taking further into the future than HG/SS + D/P/Pt makes sense to me, as the latter two have similar kinds of tech, all being varying levels of "fancy watch"

which I guess could possibly mean that BW/B2W2 could conceivably work as taking place concurrently with HGSS + DPPt, or as a near future sort of thing, as the Xtransceiver is noticeably more advanced than the Pokegear or Poketch while also being a fancy watch, or in this case, something closer to a bulky smartwatch.

Then tech reached a peak with the Holo Caster tech in X/Y, but regressed a bit since it wasn't something easily replicable, and presumably fell out of style with the reveal of Lysandre leading Team Flare.

After that, Rotom-augmented tech took off

even if it's mostly limited to "Phones or Tablets, but with a Rotom shoved inside of it"

[trail hull]

due to the cross fusion chart we know that each teams has around 1000 points

[proud lion]

If Emerald wins, I want Carnivine to pull through

https://tenor.com/view/james-team-rocket-carnivine-cacnea-コジロウ-ロケット団-gif-25139686

He’s just a silly goober

[white meadow]

The GB, GBA, DS and 3DS are different timelines/alternate universes. So while DS Johto may take place in the same time as D/P and B/W, it might not be so in the other iterations. Gen 3 might take place in the same timeline/universe as Gen 4/5 but they're not part of Gen 6 and over's world.

I like to say that the PIF games are just their own alternate universe and Frogman decides how this universe works

[weak trellis]

I was gonna say was it BW's entralink or SM's postgame plot that started the "every save file is its own canon" nonsense

[rancid nymph]

I’d say that the entralink is more of a multiplayer feature than a plot relevant event

Though there is that one side quest in Opalucid city where you have to trade over a Pokémon from the other version that knows charge so they can make a Time Machine

[white meadow]

I remember ORAS there talked about alternate universes and there is a world like theirs that has no Megas (referencing Gen 3), but it was never brought up again.

[full bison]

My take is that the Pokemon timeline is too much of a mess to worry about

[white meadow]

I just seperate them into different worlds

World 1 - Gen 1/Gen2/Stadium
World 2 - Gen 3 games including Colosseum, Gen 4 including Battle Revolution and Gen 5
World 3 - Gen 6 which includes ORAS, Pokemon: The Origin anime series, Gen 7, Gen 8 and Gen 9.

https://tenor.com/view/sabrina-pokemon-anime-pokemon-anime-pokemon-origins-gif-3967061901177338935

[rancid nymph]

Or we could do what origins did to every single battle and just cut it

[white meadow]

Not gonna lie, I was so disappointed that Origins skipped through the whole thing. It was legit good, but I guess they don't want Red to outshine Ash

[clear lichen]

I simply just ignore this shit because its confusing

I just have game canon, manga canon and anime canon

That's it

[elfin forge]

Honestly, me too

[full bison]

My only real belief on which game came before what is that I believe ORAS and XY take place at roughly the same time, cause I believe the Ultimate Weapon created Deoxys

Other than that I don't worry about timeline stuff

[weak trellis]

this is true of all nintendo-published games imo

there might be an exception but I'm forgetting

my worlds are generally just "gens 1-5" and "gens 6-9"

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/danganronpa-no-thats-wrong-makoto-naegi-gif-26672582

Pokémon X and Y come after Sun and Moon, because in X and Y you can encounter a tourist from Alola that talks about having a champion, and Alola didn’t get a champion until the end of Sun and Moon. Wally can be fought in the Battle Tree in Sun and Moon, and he didn’t become a trainer until the events of the Hoenn region. Therefore, X and Y unequivocally take place after ORAS

[weak trellis]

timmy's mistake: they tried making an exception instead of dismissing it entirely rofl

[rancid nymph]

Timmy’s mistake was that the exception was objectively false

[rancid nymph]

TLDR: Kalos takes place after Hoenn, because Alola takes place after Hoenn, and Kalos takes place after Alola

[compact orbit]

Damn, Pokémon has a timeline? Honestly thought all sense of that was thrown out the metaphorical window when both Dialga and Celebi started to coexist

Pokémon that can control the flow of time? Alright, time to start creating multiverse charts

[thin pawn]

It has a very loose very unimportant timeline

[compact orbit]

Dang right about the unimportant. Who wants to theory craft multiverses when you can catch cool monsters in tiny orbs

[rancid nymph]

The whole alternate dimension nonsense that started in ORAS really threw the whole timeline out of whack

[compact orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/cities-funny-memes-goofy-gif-27660239

[rancid nymph]

Generally though, I assume that the timeline goes in order of when the games came out (excluding remakes), with the exceptions of Alola and Kalos being swapped for the reasons mentioned above, and Legends Arceus which obviously takes place before any other game in the franchise

[lofty spindle]

There is also the intro of Diamond/Pearl/Platinum showing a TV report from the events of the lake of rage.

[white meadow]

The only timeline theory that matters

[thin pawn]

Didn't realize tony hawk lore was so deep

[trail hull]

in saphire chat we have a mini vote to see who would be the winning mon , while it change dquite a few time here is the latest

[spiral musk]

it's pretty close

[trail hull]

yeah

[full bison]

I held a similar vote and it was a lot more definitive. Won't spoil it on the off chance that we win, but it's a close race between Salazzle, Archeops, Excadrill, Gigalith, and Crustle

[trail hull]

salazzle was pretty high on last year vote

so it's probably going to the pick

[tropic dew]

Right. So the loosest timeline we can reliably piece together, regardless of whichever universe the events take place in...

Kanto/Hoenn > Johto/Sinnoh > Unova > Kalos

and then things have mostly been sequential afterwards.

... Unless they arbitrarily decide to muck around with the tech level in a BW/B2W2 remake and throw its place in the general sequence of events into question

[lofty spindle]

Gamefreak looks at gen 5 like the morningstar looks at the sun, they ain't touching it.

[tropic dew]

lol

probably yeah

All things considered, besides all the timeline stuff, it would be neat to explore Orre as a postgame region, regardless of whether we'd be looking at a post-Colosseum/XD Orre or not.

But then that begs the question of whether or not Snagging and Shadow Pokemon as game mechanics get introduced into the mix as well.

Personally, after some reflection, I think it'd be more worthwhile to put as much content as possible into Hoenn itself, whether it's by expanding otherwise unimpressive towns/cities, adding anime/anime movie-exclusive locations, making the Mirage Spots accessible via hidden entrances near specified routes so that Soaring as a mechanic doesn't need to be adapted, and so on.

[lofty spindle]

I do think the engine supports shadow Pokémon.

[fallen loom]

yes, Orre as the Johto/Sevii equiv!

[trail hull]

hello

[sudden jackal]

Hello fellow kirby

We are both sapphire

[trail hull]

I know

[sudden jackal]

[white meadow]

Like I said. I don't mind if the Battle Frontier gets relocated to Orre as an excuse to travel around the region. The more difficult part for the implementation is creating routs and wild areas to fill the in-betweens.

[zenith token]

to be fair, Pokemon IF already messed with the timeline, so it's probably nothing new

[velvet root]

Well yes but actually no

[prime dust]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-but-actually-no-meme-aardman-the-pirates-pirate-gif-26563702

[torn crane]

Do you think the fusion in hoenn will be finite?

[jade grotto]

What does that even mean

[gray vine]

the same amount as it already is

[clear lichen]

Very close vote

[muted shoal]

Really hope the Liepard line gets added solely for Assist shenanigans lol

[random dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/ww2-traumatized-scared-gif-16660640303472289124

[gusty spindle]

Don't we already have Riolu

[muted shoal]

I don’t think it gets Assist would be cool tho

[trail hull]

made trainer cards for every team

[random dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/chaos-emeralds-sonic-gif-9131783091852192961

[trail hull]

unfortunately lapis, aquamarine , topaz and amethyst aren't game version (tho there's diamond)

also wait a minute, emerald , saphire and ruby are just the same color as red green and blue they reused gen 1 colors

[hardy remnant]

Did you forget that yellow is a gen 1 color?

[trail hull]

yellow is like a special case

[hardy remnant]

It's still gen 1.

[trail hull]

but it isn't part of the main trio

[molten loom]

What spa is hiring?

[weak trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/sonic-r-no-bitches-sega-sonic-meme-gif-11376943487565316029

[rancid nymph]

Imagine wanting Chaos Emeralds

[thin pawn]

You mean the chaos emeralds?

I'm going to assume you mean the chaos emeralds

[rancid nymph]

That’s what I just said. Chaos emeralds

[thin pawn]

Because if that's what you mean I've got one of them right here

https://tenor.com/view/obama-basketballin-gif-18644265

[rancid nymph]

That’s not a chaos emerald. That’s Obama with a basketball

[thin pawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tM0Sow-2r8

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-michael-scott-leaving-turning-around-no-gif-21361019

[gusty spindle]

TOPAZ EXISTS.

[trail hull]

it's not official so it doesn't count

every team has at least 600 now

[gusty spindle]

https://www.j-platpat.inpit.go.jp/c1801/TR/JP-2002-063587/40/ja

Copyrighted by gamefreak and nintendo

[weak trellis]

failsafe copyright, trying to think of other ones they have it for since I think grey version is also copyrighted by them?

[white meadow]

I like that you gave the emerald a diamond cut. Very nice and they're aesthetically pleasing.

[random dragon]

I feel like jirachi is topaz

[white meadow]

It's easy to forget that moonstone and sunstone are real gems

[clear fulcrum]

GUYS

Our lord mr frog gave us a sneak peak

Beat you to it!

[spice sage]

^it's a very early prototype btw, I just started working on the secret bases system today!

[white meadow]

https://youtu.be/FKuquMfcoOc

[clear fulcrum]

silently hoping I get news that zangoose fused with seviper will not be an auto gen

[thin pawn]

There's definitely gonna be a lot of sprites for that

[clear fulcrum]

YES

[white meadow]

Their rivalry is too iconic to not have custom sprites.

[clear fulcrum]

Anywho im gonna go back to making sprite ideas that will never happen!

[clear fulcrum]

Which region is heatmor and durant?

That's another good rivalry

[thin pawn]

Gen 5

[trail hull]

Thanks

[white meadow]

Unova

[clear fulcrum]

Oh.

[white meadow]

A list of Pokemon and their rivals/counterparts
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/User:ScraftyIsTheBest/Pokémon_counterparts

[velvet root]

I wonder what theh use of them will be

[clear fulcrum]

I mean- not to hint at anything-

But that had a part in online play (I think)

[white meadow]

I do hope for some cool Draconid clothes like Zinnia in PIF Hoenn.

[velvet root]

I dont think we suddenly get online gameplax

[clear fulcrum]

I dont think so-

[white meadow]

No, I don't think it will have online features. It would be too complicated, it's probably just be a neat little base to decorate and chill in. Maybe add a radio to select BGMs.

[clear fulcrum]

Those cute little mudkip plushies?

[viscid fossil]

The fact that it just uses the item as the player sprite is both clever and hilarious

[full bison]

If this is real, I hope we also get the ability to sprite base decorations

[clear fulcrum]

Frogzilla himself sent it

[fickle sentinel]

SOLROCK AND LUNATONE MY POOKIES

[spice sage]

Oh definitely!

[trail hull]

Yippee

Now we just need a team that makes cudtom furnitures and we’re golden

[trail hull]

I should have read above

If the game isn’t blowing up then I won’t understand

[velvet root]

Just wait for the Scolipede couch

[white meadow]

Hope there will be decor that had been either unobtainable or nearly impossible to get in the original games to be in PIF Hoenn. I want my Pika Bed and Manaphy Plush

Also, Darumaka rug from Dream World

[inland jewel]

the engine this is being made in cannot support online play

[gusty spindle]

It does mean its officially a gamefreak copyright even if it never got used

[midnight wharf]

Let it be known how much I hate the diaper mushroom

We do not need an excuse to put diapers on fused pokemon

[rain locust]

Right opinion

[tropic dew]

https://tenor.com/view/penguinz0-moistcritikal-gif-27692002

Looking forward to seeing just how much Frog can push the functionality of the Secret Bases in PIF Hoenn

[clear fulcrum]

HELL YEA

[tropic dew]

Once the bare bones functionality gets hammered out, we can hopefully start seeing the different layouts and terrain-exclusive themes, and maybe even the specific objects you use Secret Power on to create the Secret Base, so that'd be trees with vines, large bushes, and cliffside indents.

cuz like... you have tree layouts, shrub layouts, and three different colors of cave layouts.

then you'd have to consider the Secret Base items used exclusively to patch holes in the floor.

which would make those impassible holes safe to walk over.

and iirc the little bits of shrubbery or rocks in the bases can be walked over, but you can't lay decorations on them. They exist mostly to limit your layout a bit.

[full bison]

So if this was revealed before the 23rd, that begs the question of what the 23rd has to offer

[molten loom]

seems like emerald will not be getting more members than the other 2 combined

[outer matrix]

674 + 613 = 1287

[gray stream]

time to hop on my 28 alt accounts again i guess 😔 ||joke||

[solemn loom]

Will the hoenn game have pokemon from gens 8 and 9?

and if so, will Ursaluna be in it?

[viscid fossil]

No, and no.

The games have the exact same pokedex to maintain compatability

[zenith token]

to get any Pokemon from gen 8 onward, both games would have to be updated to later versions of Pokemon Essentials, which'd need the games to be rebuilt from the ground up

[thin pawn]

This is incredible

[full bison]

I take it the overworld Shroomishes are going to be the equivalent to those overworld mushrooms in Viridian Forest, IE our source of Poison/Tiny mushrooms

[quaint matrix]

Overworld encounters woooooooo

[full bison]

The wind effect is pretty nice looking but I will probably have it turned off to spare my potato laptop

[quaint matrix]

I'm sure my PC can handle it provided there isn't any internet-related shenaniganery during this game running

[velvet root]

I kinda hope Foongus gets in through top points or vote
Would be cool to find it

[trail hull]

in 5 days there is a suprise what do you guys think it's going to be?

[torn crane]

Infinite fusion legends: Mewto

[velvet root]

Its a Movie
We already know the movie cuz of a mess up but shouldnt tell

[trail hull]

oh

it's realistic but my theory brain won't stop

[dusty arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/rouxls-kaard-rouxls-deltarune-entrance-gif-23640231

https://tenor.com/view/rouxls-rouxls-kaard-deltarune-nvm-gif-3288971893523549950

[trail hull]

It can't be the movie

there's only 7 movies

and the suprise is different from movie 7

or if it is infact movie 7 then the real suprise will be on the day movie 7 was supposed to

to my knowlege movies don't boost scores

[spice sage]

Something like that!

[velvet root]

Oh that suprise

[gray stream]

no, the surprise is the debut of Pokemon Infinite Fusion: The Movie

[sudden jackal]

Shit frog you've outdone yourself here it looks amazing damn!

[slate bear]

I have a very stupid question that has probably been answered hundreds of times. Do we know if the devs would be interested in continuing their projects after pif hoenn and therefore make (in probably many years) a pif sinnoh ? Or is pif hoenn the last full game to be made ?

[inland jewel]

so far pif hoenn is only worked on right now because they couldn't fit more mons reasonably in the current game

so at this moment sinnoh could be found in PIF Hoenn if they have the space, so they'll put that region in there

and its up to the single dev if je still wnts to work on this game in the future

[slate bear]

Ok, I see, thanks

[inland jewel]

so far i think any project they work on will be 2 regions per game

so PIF Hoenn could very well be Hoenn/Sinnoh

and then PIF Unova comes out, and with it Kalos is bundled and then PIF Alola

and then its off to a new engine/start from scratch to impliment gens 8+

although there isn't enough mons left to justify a pif Unova/Alola if frog can fit the rest into Pif Hoenn

[spiral musk]

I don't think frog himself knows if there will be a 3rd pif

the first one has been like, almost a decade in the making I think?

oh yeah first version was in 2015

more than a decade actually

[inland jewel]

yee, with only like 200~ left, i don't think there is going to be a 3rd game

since the remaining 200 can fit easonably well into the new game

its just IDK what Frog will end up deciding to do

like he could go yolo and make PIF Sinnoh just because

[slate bear]

It's so old, I remember the first playthroughs and videos about it, back when there were no custom sprites

[spiral musk]

-# Sinnoh should be skipped

[spiral musk]

I'm pretty sure I played one of the early version
I have vague memories of it, and yeah there was no customs

I feel old

[slate bear]

I guess it's complicated to know, he doesn't seem to have told much about what pif hoenn was gonna be or when it'd be released

[white meadow]

Maybe an original region or a region based on the spinoffs/side games. He doesn't need to limit himself

[inland jewel]

he did though, PIF Hoenn is going to be the entire hoenn region, its working demo is slated to be released after 6 months after announcement

so around october, this demo is going to go up to slateport as he continues on the rest of the region

[spiral musk]

uh interesting, I missed that

[inland jewel]

in addition, all the hoenn mons are being added to PIF, though randomizer only, to actually find and catch them in a regular playthrough, find them in PIF Hoenn

[spiral musk]

I've seen a show case of the secret base system earlier

[inland jewel]

so mons up to slateport can be guarenteed, but mons afterward like Spheel and Relicanth have to be randomizer, wondertrade, or black market only

[spiral musk]

everything after luvdisc is rando only IIRC

[inland jewel]

out of the hoenn mons yes

but thats only pertaining to thee pif dex and not hthe hoenn dex

[spiral musk]

I wonder how the hoenn dex will work, I doubt every pokemon in PIF will be added

[inland jewel]

select mons will be added for variety aside from the hoenn mons, and many will be Kanto/ohto exclusive

so like think of Oras encounters

like route 1 will have zorua if it uses roras encounters, but mons like ratatta will be transfer only

[white meadow]

Is there more to secret bases in this game? In the original their functional purpose is to copy player data and hand it over to another player in the form of a once-a-day NPC battle. While the game will have no online features, I wonder if it would have something to set it apart from Gen 3 secret bases.

[spiral musk]

probably just a sort of house with customization, I don't think there will be any multiplayer interactions, unless maybe if frog manages to figure out a way, but the engine isn't built for it

[inland jewel]

i wish we can add a trainer like the one found in the art gallery

where it has fusions based on the person who sprited it

[spiral musk]

I've always found it pretty funny, imagine getting home and there's someone staying here just to battle you but only once a day

[white meadow]

That's the magic of Gen 3. You mix records with random people and find the NPC versions of them and their secret bases in your save file. My friends and I made a secret base city north of Rustboro way back when.

[spice sage]

On the subject of secret bases, here's a sneak peak at another feature I've been working on (featuring beautiful placeholder graphics for the entrance ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_jnPMZ3ea8

Basically you can create secret bases anywhere (on supported surfaces), not just in specific locations, and you can fly to your base!

[rancid nymph]

Shouldn’t you be posting these to #dev-updates ?

[spice sage]

It's just a little sneak peak. I'll do a proper dev update presentation about secret bases when I've made more progress on them. There's still a lot of cool stuff I want to add

[hidden relic]

The movie is just hidden for fun

It's I Choose You!

[proud lion]

Will there be an interference intermission like last time?

[hidden relic]

No

I keep telling y'all it's just these 2 lines this year

No one believes

Am lucky we even got these 2 I was expecting 0

[inland jewel]

to be fair, we did get like 60 mons announced when Pif Hoenn was said to complete the hoenn dex

so its like 60 + 2 extras which is already an insane amount

[quaint matrix]

It's all up in the air still

[viscid fossil]

...and now that you have landed?

[quaint matrix]

Well it's looking real vague to me still Justerfrog

Maybe dev Frog got on demon time and will serve us a surprising extra

Maybe even more than two mons added lmao

[inland jewel]

at the very least if he does decide to add a new mon aside from the 2 lines, its probably going to be a mythical

[clear lichen]

Elemental Monkeys frfr on god

[inland jewel]

since the remaining legends makes much more sense to add as their pairs

it would be hella funny if he introduces the xy legends trio as a reason why hoenn is wack and its up to you finding Kyodonquaza to fight them

[white meadow]

Will there be more or less the same clothes from PIF or will PIF Hoenn have a bunch of new outfits?

[clear lichen]

I feel like it's more likely we find Zygarde to beat up Kyodonquaza than vice versa

[viscid fossil]

the outfits for this game are literally whatever the spriters decide to make

[white meadow]

Cool

[clear lichen]

Who would win actually, Zygod or Kyodonquaza?

[full bison]

Zygarde does have one of the better types for dealing with Kyodonquaza

[viscid fossil]

I'd imagine that a lot of the spriters are making gen-3 inspired outfits
but they do whatever they want, we don't question them

[clear lichen]

Types-wise they're basically equal

It's pretty much down to stats

[inland jewel]

Xergartal the battle of weather vs auras

[muted solstice]

Pkmex for the win!

[clear lichen]

If you add Xerneas and Yveltal Kyodonquaza's getting low diffed

[full bison]

Set up with Geomancy
Have Complete's health
Never lose

[inland jewel]

Sets up geomancy, and then oblivion wing to full heal

[muted solstice]

Xerneas and Metagross for the win

[quaint matrix]

That's so Xernegross

[muted solstice]

Or would adding a fire type be better

[clear lichen]

I'd add the Ground type but there aren't many special attacking ground types

[full bison]

Thinking more on it, Xerneas/Zygarde could legit be one of the most cracked Fusions of Legendary Pokemon ever, nevermind the triple

[white meadow]

The best moves for that type are Physical damage.

[full bison]

Geomancy for setup, Ground/Fairy, and Thousand Arrows for dealing with Steel/Flying types, one of the only type combos that Ground/Fairy wouldn't be good against

[clear lichen]

I mean I'd say the 2nd best non signature attacking Ground Move is probably Earth Power

Well excluding Headlong Rush but like 3 Pokemon have it anyways and it doesn't exist yet

[clear lichen]

Tarrows is unfortunately Physical though

[full bison]

Still has the Gravity effect

[clear lichen]

The fusion should still have good physical attack but it won't be boosted by Geomancy so you have to run mixed

[inland jewel]

Tarrows just to knock it down, but then you can go ham with earth power

[clear lichen]

For special attacking grounds you really only have like

The Nidos

Lando-I

And Camerupt

[full bison]

I feel like Geomancy would put it in a Flutter Mane situation where it's special stats and speed are so good you can invest more into Attack for that

[clear lichen]

Ig Swampert is pretty mixed too

And uhh

Seismitoad?

I think?

Palossand's a special attacker actually

And Shore Up's probably really nice here

[inland jewel]

turns out there are a ton of special ground types

its just no good special ground moves

[clear lichen]

Earth Power

[inland jewel]

yeah but thats about it

base 90

[clear lichen]

Yeah but base 90's good

[white meadow]

It's not that great when compared to many ground moves equal and more.

[full bison]

Steelix gets Sheer Force too, so it can do the Life Orb thing like Nidoking, but also it's not really that good at attacking anyway

[clear lichen]

"Many" and it's only Earthquake

And signature moves too ig

Like Tarrows is crazy

Probably the best Ground Move discounting stuff like Spikes

[clear lichen]

Zygarde can literally just run only Tarrows

[full bison]

TBF Ground didn't really need anything besides EQ.

Again, aside from the special attackers

[clear lichen]

Ground is one of the types that has good options for both physical and special

By good options I mean good option, singular, for both

[inland jewel]

games when they have a design philosphy and don't expand outside of that.

[full bison]

Ground is just a GOATed type as a whole

[clear lichen]

But you don't really need any other good options anyways

[clear lichen]

True

[inland jewel]

me when looking at Rock type moves HAVE to be powerful AND inaccurate

[clear lichen]

If Stone Edge was 120 BP then it would actually be good

But nope, 100 BP

[white meadow]

It's fitting that the last gym in Kanto uses ground types

[clear lichen]

Only 5 more than Moonblast

Moonblast being 95 BP with a 30% secondary effect is bullshit btw

[hardy remnant]

The Rock type has the fewest types that resist it compared to the types weak to it.

[full bison]

I am shocked Rock hasn't had a buff yet. It's debatably the worst type in the game

[clear lichen]

Rock is great offensively but bad defensively with barely any good moves

Apart from the sneaky pebbles of course

[full bison]

And what good is having a good offensive profile if you're slow and your moves all suck

[clear lichen]

In Doubles there's also Rock Slide but like

90% of Rock types are slow and defensive

[hardy remnant]

Stealth Rocks is the best rock type move, Wide Guard is a close second.

[inland jewel]

its a tossup on which could be the worst type

[clear lichen]

And the flinch rate basically doesn't even matter

[white meadow]

Rhydon is one of those Pokemon where evolving it would be a downgrade.

[clear lichen]

Forgot that was a Rock move lmao

[inland jewel]

personally i think Psychic is up there, with bug and ice being the next worst

[hardy remnant]

Rock Slide is also good.

[clear lichen]

Not in Singles at least

[hardy remnant]

Yeah, I don't know why it's a rock type move.

[clear lichen]

And in Doubles I see neither anywhere

[inland jewel]

Eviolite Rhydon has been my go-to in so many romhacks its insane how much better it is compared to rhypherior

[clear lichen]

So I'm just gonna say Rhyperior's better

[full bison]

Ice is a better type than one would expect, it's just that Gamefreak refuses to play into its strengths

[clear lichen]

Also yeah Psychic and Bug are pretty horrid types

[clear lichen]

In romhacks I could see Rhydon being better

[full bison]

I genuinely think Gamefreak is scared of an Ice special sweeper getting unfair freezes left and right

[clear lichen]

Since the stuff that'd make Rhyperior better like being less vulnerable to shit like Knock Off just

Isn't a problem

[full bison]

So you know what can be changed about that?

[hardy remnant]

Rhydon and its evolved form are not that great in doubles.

[full bison]

Frostbite returning

[clear lichen]

Since Knock Off isn't exactly common

In a non competitive context

[quaint matrix]

Tangent but while talking about Ice I got reminded Frost Breath exist

[clear lichen]

But in Singles Competitive there is a grand total of 1 (one) Eviolite user that might be better than its evolution

And it's very much trash vs garbage

[quaint matrix]

Outside of the silly Sniper/Technician Frost Breath mon I'm already for ideating for IF it's very funny to me they haven't tried doing more Frost Breath

[inland jewel]

yee there is a case by case for each mon and where its useable, like some mons are great for competitive, some are great for nuzlockes, etc

[full bison]

Storm Throw is a thing

[quaint matrix]

Well not anymore lmao

[clear lichen]

If Frost Breath was perfectly accurate I would like it a lot more

[full bison]

A thing that only exists on Ernie Throh, but it exists

[quaint matrix]

Pinsir too actually

[hardy remnant]

The ice type was improved in gen 9 with Hail being replaced by Snow.

[clear lichen]

But if a move has 90 BP (or effective 90 BP) yet imperfect accuracy I am going to refer to it as a dogshit move

cough cough Play Rough

Hey it isn't Rock Slide, or Zen Headbutt

It's actually crazy how dogshit Zen Headbutt is ngl

Like compare it to Iron Head

10 less BP

10 less accuracy

10 less flinch rate

[inland jewel]

a weak flimsy brain power vs cold hard steel

[white meadow]

Probably decent for a psychic physical attacker. But most of Psychic's best moves are special

[full bison]

I kinda get Zen Headbutt being bad. Psychic is supposed to be the Special type, so it's phys options would naturally be lacking.

[clear lichen]

And on a type that somehow isn't even much better than Steel offensively

[hardy remnant]

Frost Breath does ignore any decreases to the user's special attack, and increases to the opponent's special defense.

[clear lichen]

How do you manage to be not much better than Steel offensively

It's not like Psychic has defensive prowess to excuse it

Like unironically worse move than the Elemental Punches is crazy

[hardy remnant]

I just think Glaceon should've had Freeze Dry before gen 8 so I wouldn't have to build a hail team or rely on a 90% accurate move.

[clear lichen]

Does Glaceon not learn Ice Beam?

[hardy remnant]

Because Ice Beam is is too annoying to get the coins for.

[thin pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/bright-light-flowing-hair-jojos-bizarre-adventure-anime-gif-17398510

[clear lichen]

Or do you mean purely with level up moves

Holy fucking typo

[hardy remnant]

Freeze Dry was able to be gotten by level up, Ice Beam needs a TM.

[clear lichen]

Yeah ok

[hardy remnant]

I was meaning purely level up moves.

[white meadow]

To be fair, most eevolutions have lacked good move pools except Sylveon. And Sylveon with Pixelate dominated with the fairy type versions of the best normal type moves

[clear lichen]

I feel like a large part of Cynthia being a tough battle is the fact that your options for Ice types are like

Mamoswine (0 good physical Ice STAB)

Weavile (0 good physical Ice STAB)

Froslass (relies on Blizzard)

Glaceon (relies on Blizzard)

Etc

[hardy remnant]

Glaceon finally got Freeze Dry added to its level up learnset in gen 8.

[clear lichen]

Why does Icicle Spear only have 10 BP in older gens

Like yeah yeah early game move but like

This shit has like what, average 25, 30 BP?

[thin pawn]

Glaceon, Leafeon and Flareon are so doodoo

It's very sad

[clear lichen]

That's like Astonish level damage

Even worse actually

Both in terms of damage and the fact that at least Astonish can flinch

[white meadow]

Eeveelutions usually seem to get left behind

[thin pawn]

So true

Apparently they wanted to add a Flying Type Eeveelution but couldn't settle on a design they were sure people would like

[clear lichen]

It's not like hitting multiple times to bypass Focus Sash fucking matters, you're never gonna deal enough damage to OHKO

Actual enigma of a move

[hardy remnant]

I like the Eeveelutions, but all of their learnsets are terrible other than Sylveon.

[hardy remnant]

Yeah, I would've liked it if one was added in gen 7.

[clear lichen]

Forget "other than Sylveon," all their learnsets are terrible. Full stop

[thin pawn]

At this point they have to make a new Eevee like pokemon for the more physical types

[clear lichen]

Better than trash doesn't make you good

[thin pawn]

Like Ghost/Steel/Flying and whatnot

[clear lichen]

Ghost is definitely not a more physical type, contrary to what the Physical/Special split would lead you to believe

[hardy remnant]

Sylveon has the best learnset out of all of them, but yeah, no matter what, the learnsets are terrible.

[clear lichen]

List a good physical Ghost move apart from Poltergeist

[thin pawn]

Then maybe Eevee should get a ghost type

eevo

[clear lichen]

Which was added in Gen 8

Yeah there's like literally 0 unless you include signature moves

Which adds Spectral Thief

[thin pawn]

I like shadow claw

[clear lichen]

Shadow Sneak kinda counts? But it isn't a main STAB kinda move

[white meadow]

Jokes aside, I don't think GF wamts to do more eeveelutions

[thin pawn]

Sadly

I think they're scared to make a new eeveelution that people won't like

[white meadow]

Apparently I heard they wanted to do a flying type, but the design they came up with looked too much like a lot of people's fanarts. So it's mostly GF wanting to avoid looking like they copied fan designs

[thin pawn]

That's what I said

[clear lichen]

That's not really what you said

What you said implies that Gamefreak is scared the fans don't like their design

[thin pawn]

Oh yeah

[clear lichen]

Not that it's too similar to a fan design

Anyways I'm afraid that that's a real issue because I see a ton of people hating Palafin because it's similar to a fakemon someone else made

[white meadow]

To be fair, Pokémon has been going on for so long that anything they will make in the next few gens will inevitably look like someone's fakemon.

You know, I'm surprised there isn't a "Make a Pokemon" fan contest from GameFreak after all this time. Many IPs have had such contests at some point.

[quaint matrix]

Yeah and there's a reason these types of "fans make X" contests often only happened once (maybe twice)

It's a total crapshoot to hope the fans can make something that immediately hit the ground running and isn't just there as like "oh shit remember when this fanmade thing got official idk how this got past testing"

[white meadow]

Digimon seems to be a better example though. Cyberdramon is the most famous contest winner made by fans and is one of the protag digimon from Tamers and a mainstay. They still do these contests with the last being in 2020. I assume the contest prizes are good.

[quaint matrix]

I'm glad it works out for Digimon yea

[white meadow]

Yeah, I can't imagine GameFreak being that good

[quaint matrix]

Most other media tried doing this and often the lesson they learned is "yeah nah we're not gonna do this anymore"

[white meadow]

They usually half ass it and the prizes are probably cheap trinkets.

[outer matrix]

There's always the risks of people copying or stealing other fakemon designs

Or in recent years, people AI generating designs

[quaint matrix]

Yeah unfortunately that one is even more presciently an issue

[full bison]

Pretty sure I've heard about more than one art contest getting cancelled over that slop

[quaint matrix]

Some fan contests (Radiohead or some other alt band music video I think, Genshin fan art contests) had to basically halt for a while because they got boozebambled

[white meadow]

I'm not an artist but I came to hate AI as time passed. Sick of this soulless shit.

[outer matrix]

There was a TCG contest that had 2 AI generated art. Notable because those two entries were chosen as one of the top 100(?) I believe?

[quaint matrix]

Most people hate AI

AI is only popular now because it got mega astroturfed by megacorporations choking it down our throat

[full bison]

My opinion on it is that it does have neat applications, but none of those are being pursued and it's instead being used for the most inhumane things while being developed in the most inhumane ways

[white meadow]

Future fanart contests should include a recording of people actually drawing on the canvas.

[outer matrix]

A time-lapse/speed paint?

[quaint matrix]

The actual applications are amazing (medical care especially) but there's clearly way less money in that for the megacorps than the "creative-based" AI

[hardy remnant]

Shadow Claw is the best one other than Poltergeist, and it is useful if the opponent doesn't have a held item.

[clear lichen]

"Useful"

[white meadow]

We're going to have people one day say "The AI Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity"

[full bison]

Calling AI creative is like calling asbestos safe

[hardy remnant]

Most NPCs don't have held items, so Poltergeist is useless in the NPC battles.

[clear lichen]

Yeah but I'm more so focusing on Competitive here

[quaint matrix]

It's not a wrong term to describe the wave of the types of AI being choked down our throat (image generator, video generator, voice generator, social interaction chatbots)

[hardy remnant]

And it also existed a lot longer than Poltergeist, being since gen 4.

[clear lichen]

In a main game context yeah no there's 0 good physical Ghost STAB unless your name is Marshadow

And that's a mythical

Well, actually

[quaint matrix]

Idk why Shadow Punch isn't just buffed to 90 at this point

Even 80 man

It would've at least been something

[clear lichen]

AI won't abuse Phantom Force by Swords Dancing or swapping to a resist/immunity

[quaint matrix]

There's not even a real Technician mon to use it

[clear lichen]

So Phantom Force is probably good in a playthrough context, if a bit annoying

[clear lichen]

Marshadow, but it would rather use Spectral Thief or Poltergeist

[hardy remnant]

I can't really say any other moves that could even be useful, but also, in competitive, if you use Knock Off the opponent loses their held item and Poltergeist doesn't affect them anymore.

[clear lichen]

Simply don't use Knock Off on the things you want to hit with Poltergeist I suppose

That is a bit of an inconvenient factor to it

But considering how Marshadow runs Poltergeist over Spectral Thief sometimes, it's clearly not anything more than that

Tbf Marshadow suffers greatly from lack of damage in Ubers

[hardy remnant]

Removing your opponent's held item is one of the best things you can do in competitive.

[clear lichen]

So the extra 20 BP is very massive

[hardy remnant]

I'm specifically talking about double battles.

[clear lichen]

It usually runs items like Life Orb or Choice Band, too

[clear lichen]

Removing items is equally important in Singles

Which is what makes Poltergeist inconvenient

Because you want to remove the items but also want to be able to use Poltergeist

[hardy remnant]

But in doubles Poltergeist is not used much, if at all.

[clear lichen]

But it's still a great move because it simply does high damage

And you sure as hell aren't using Shadow Claw or Phantom Force

Phantom Force is a very good way to instantly lose to Kingambit because you just gave it a free turn to Swords Dance

[hardy remnant]

I would use Shadow Claw, but only if I have Knock Off on a different mon in the same team.

[clear lichen]

And Shadow Claw just has pathetic BP

Once again, literally worse than the Elemental punches

[hardy remnant]

I literally don't care.

[clear lichen]

Speaking of the Elemental Punches, they really need to make a better Electric move

Physical one I mean

[hardy remnant]

Wild Charge and I believe there is another one that have good BP.

[clear lichen]

90 BP recoil move, Jump Kick clone and 75 BP move as your 3 options is crazy

Why is it a Jump Kick clone and not a HJK clone

[hardy remnant]

That is kinda sad, worse than ghost, because at least ghost has a better move.

[clear lichen]

Jump Kick doesn't even exist in Gen 9

Then there's Rock

Where a signature move is more common than an non signature rock move in Singles

Because that's how bad the options are

[hardy remnant]

Rock has the fact it has more types weak to it than types that resist it, but that is about it.

[clear lichen]

Rock Slide's good in Doubles at least

Rock Slide has literally 0 users in Singles

[hardy remnant]

Wide Guard is also good in doubles if you predict correctly.

[clear lichen]

The Pokemon you'd expect to prefer Rock Slide over Stone Edge use Rock Blast instead

Not even Loaded Dice Rock Blast

Just Rock Blast

[hardy remnant]

That is terrible.

[clear lichen]

And really you're more likely to see a signature move than any of the 3

[full bison]

Rock types are on their hands and knees begging Iron Boulder to let them have Mighty Cleave

[clear lichen]

Salt Cure, Mighty Cleave, Diamond Storm, Accelerock etc

Ofc Salt Cure and Accelerock aren't exactly main STAB options

But Garganacl doesn't need one

Meanwhile we got Midday Lycanroc picking between Life Orb Stone Edge and Loaded Dice Rock Blast in ZU

Midnight Lycanroc with literally 0 sample sets

And hey, Dusk Lycanroc's actually just using Stone Edge

[full bison]

Midnight putting the mid in midnight

[clear lichen]

And not using Loaded Dice Rock Blast

[clear lichen]

Yknow, I don't get calling things that are obviously just bad mid

Mid implies they're average

It's short for middling

Midnight Lycanroc is just bad

No Guard Stone Edge actually allows it to have good STAB though

Just ignore how it's very frail and not very fast either

[hardy remnant]

I think the main thing is that there isn't good rock type Pokemon, the moves would be a bit better if they weren't on terrible Pokemon.

[full bison]

Rock does need more good moves tbf

[quaint matrix]

Got it

[full bison]

Rock has been playing the same two notes of Stone Edge and Power Gen since Gen 4

[quaint matrix]

Another bunch of Special and Physical (some of them signatures) Water moves for the next gen

[hardy remnant]

Yeah it does need better moves, but it also needs better mons as well.

[hardy remnant]

No, water doesn't need more.

[quaint matrix]

Got it we're nerfing Freeze Dry

[hardy remnant]

NO!

[full bison]

There has been the occasional Red Herb Meteor Beam set too, but that's a move you can really only use once and then it's back to Power Gem

[quaint matrix]

Why say that Kriv

Water needs all the help it can get

Those dastardly Grass types have been eating too good in OU lately after all

[hardy remnant]

Water already has more than any other type, it does not need more.

[clear lichen]

Unironically Power Herb Meteor Beam may be used more on non Rock types than Rock types

Eternatus for example uses it for the +1 SpA and as a way to break past Ho-Oh

[hardy remnant]

I believe that may be the case.

[clear lichen]

Lunala can use it for the exact same reason

Speaking of Lunala, why does my GOAT have to have the Psychic Type I can't name a single thing Psychic does for Lunala

Apart from making it weaker to Dark and Ghost

[full bison]

At least it has the fun trivia of being one of the only 2 Pokemon with a x4 weakness to one of it's own types 🙂

[hardy remnant]

Solgaleo is weak to fire, and it's supposed to be the sun Pokemon.

[clear lichen]

Crazy how the both it and that other Pokemon are still both great

Calyrex perhaps a bit too great

[full bison]

I forgot Calyrex. I was referring to Hoopa and was confused cause it's not that good

[clear lichen]

Oh lmao

[full bison]

Three then

[clear lichen]

Yknow what Hoopa Confined does stuff in PU

Or NU

I forgot tbh

[hardy remnant]

I forgot Hoopa existed.

[clear lichen]

It isn't literally 100% fraud

[quaint matrix]

It's unbelievable to me like

[thin pawn]

To be fair so did Game Freak

[quaint matrix]

How much of a burden Psychic is when combined with Dark

[full bison]

Psychic is a burden attached to almost every type tbf

[quaint matrix]

But Dark even moreso

[full bison]

Normal and Fighting are some of the only types that tolerate it

[quaint matrix]

Like I unironically think Psychic/Dark is the worst type combo

[clear lichen]

I love how calling Hoopa Poopa Unwiped when in Unbound form is normalised for like 50% of Competitive players

[quaint matrix]

Even more than Rock/Ice

[full bison]

Steel used to be cool with Psychic, then Steel got nerfed and Psychic now makes it awful

[clear lichen]

Idk I wouldn't say Psychic/Steel is bad

At the end of the day it's just Steel with 2 new weaknesses but 1 weakness removed

Along with now being neutral to Bug but that part's not very relevant tbh

[full bison]

Dark and Ghost are not good weaknesses to have. Ghost/Steel adds the same weaknesses but at least makes Fighting an immunity instead of Neutral and has the "can't be trapped" bonus

[weak trellis]

especially when Knock Off and Ghost also keep getting better with each gen

but yea defensivley ghost is pretty much a straight upgrade over psychic lol

(actually it kinda is in most ways that don't involve psychic terrain spam)

[full bison]

Ghost has really spiralled out of control. The one move keeping a lid on it was Pursuit, and Gamefreak decided to break the seal and unleash it's true power

[weak trellis]

then again balance in pokemon is a lost cause imo

[clear lichen]

Yeah but it ain't straight up bad is the thing

I see a lot of people say that Fairy just outclasses Psychic but really, that's Ghost

Those 2 share more in common than Psychic and Fairy

They're both top 5 types though lmao

[thin pawn]

How could they buff psychic in a way that makes sense

[clear lichen]

SE vs Steel fr

[thin pawn]

Oh like bending spoons

You might be onto something here

[full bison]

Super effective against Fairies would also help

Also Expanding Force would need a nerf because holy hell

[thin pawn]

What's the logic behind super effective vs fairies though (other than for balance reasons)

[full bison]

One of the most iconic aspects of a lot of modern fairies is that they need to be believed in to maintain their existence. The classic "clap your hands if you believe."

And Psychic is the gigabrain type that's too intelligent to believe in fairies

Course they're weak to ghosts, but that's more about fear, and there's not a lot about modern fairies that scare people nowadays

[warm frost]

fairies be adverse to steel

[thin pawn]

I'm convinced, fairies have also had it too good for too long

[inner ether]

This being added as part or different to the game?

[full bison]

Unrelated to PIF Hoenn

It's just common for us to air our grievances with competitive Pokemon here

[open wraith]

Day 1 of Dewpider Hype.

[west shuttle]

oh shit, wrong channel

that's hoenn but not the good game 😂

done, nobody see something

[trail hull]

Oh the pick your team channel disappeared

It means no more members for any team

[full bison]

Now Emerald is only about 40 members shy of both teams combined instead of that big outright

[fallen loom]

why man

[white meadow]

I freaking love the trumpets

[fast quiver]

i hope the hoenn game will be based in hoenn

[white meadow]

https://youtu.be/Vs6Hrukg1Zg

[thin pawn]

I hope Frog exclusively uses tracks with trumpets in hoenn

[white meadow]

Memes aside there's a 5 absolute things about Hoenn

1. Water
2. Wingull
3. Tentacool
4. Trumpets
5. The random Linoone/Zigzagoon sounds in the overworld

[zenith token]

and Secret Bases above ground

[thin pawn]

Also that one rich kid that uses a full restore on a zigzagoon

[tropic dew]

I love shaking down that Rich Kid for money every time we rematch

Especially in Emerald

Bro gave several thousands in cash with each rematch

Same with Lady Cindy on the northern half of Route 104

[white meadow]

Also, who wouldn't forget the Trick House?

Man, Hoenn was such a fun explorable place. I think Underwater is one of my favorite places because of the music and aesthetic of the blue color

If there is anything I didn't like about Gen 3, it's that it didn't have the Day and Night Cycle

[full bison]

I really hope we get another game with underwater stuff. There's so many crazy deep sea creatures that they could fill an entire Pokedex on their own

[white meadow]

Oh yeah, there's a lot of neat underwater animals and mythical creatures yet to be Pokémon.

[full bison]

A Siphonophore would be interesting to see as a Pokemon. Wonder how they would handle one of those (or several of those, given the nature of what siphonophores are)

[white meadow]

Honedge - Hoenn form

[full bison]

I'm imagining a Sponge Pokemon having Blissey tier HP and Regenerator, but having awful stats in every other regard.

[thin pawn]

Gotta have water absorb

[lofty spindle]

Had concept for an Antarctica region, lots of diving for geothermal vents and thus local fire-types, as well as deep sea critters.

[white meadow]

I need Zeraora

[velvet root]

@tender plank @vague oar do your teams have tierlists for what Mon you want most?
If yes can I have the links?

[vague oar]

I’ve seen my team making tier lists, but I don’t have the link

[zenith token]

I don't have it either

[thin pawn]

You can just go on tiermaker and look for any pokemon tier list then pick the ones from the team lists

[white meadow]

I'll never forget about the story I once heard years ago about someone starting Ruby and saw a shiny Torchic on their first try only to reset the game because they thought the shiny colors were a glitch

[zenith token]

I remember something similar happening with one of the lati twins

[tender plank]

I also seen tierlists around, but i don't think there's a Sapphire-specific tierlist.

[dusty arrow]

its sick

oh also

https://tenor.com/view/rouxls-kaard-rouxls-deltarune-entrance-gif-23640231

https://tenor.com/view/rouxls-rouxls-kaard-deltarune-nvm-gif-3288971893523549950

[thin pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-boo-gif-1281926785517906930

[tacit saddle]

the sponge

[full bison]

I genuinely wonder how Gamefreak could even translate a sponge into a Pokemon design. Maybe if it went by the Ultra Beast school of design, but I can't see a Sponge Pokemon using the usual style

[viscid fossil]

All I know is that it would need water absorb

[quaint matrix]

Imagine if they just remake Spongebob but Pokemon

[clear lichen]

OK but what type would a dragon slug even be? Water is probably the most likely, with dragon slug being one of the many common names this species has Dragon is another likely type, they're venomous so Poison's another option, and according to Wikipedia it utilises an air sac to float, making Flying an option, as well as having its colour due to reflecting harmful ultraviolet lights, which sounds like something that Pokemon could exaggerate, making it attack via light, which would imply the Psychic or Fairy types. They're also called blue angels, which supports the Fairy type even further

[quaint matrix]

I mean tbf we already have a dragon slug

https://tenor.com/view/goodra-pokemon-dancing-cute-raining-gif-17795953

It's a nudibranch granted but I can imagine them not straying away from what makes Goodra worked

[clear lichen]

Goodra is a Dragon Slug but it isn't a Dragon Slug

Amazing

[quaint matrix]

I would've said a regional variant of Goodra that's more like actual dragon slug

But then I remembered they do have that Hisuian variant oop-

[clear lichen]

Also another reason to give it the Water type and Poison Heal lmao

[full bison]

Apparently Goodra is based off some mythical creature called the Lou Carcolh

[white meadow]

The Shussebora could also serve as an inspiration. Or at least the Hisui form of it

Also, I like how Ho-Oh is straight up the mythical creature even down to its nature without any change to its name or anything. It's like if they introduce a literal Pegasus in Pokémon and just call it "Pegasus". What I do find interesting is that Ho-Oh is a girl in the actual myth

[thin pawn]

I always assumed it was just some sort of phoenix, didn't realize it was actually just a creature called Hōō

[white meadow]

Hōō are pretty much an Eastern depiction of the phoenix which tend to be a kind of pheasant, peacock or chicken. Western depictions of the phoenix are more like birds of prey such as eagles, hawks and falcons, which Moltres seems to be.

[thin pawn]

That's interesting

[clear lichen]

Nah it'd be if there was a literal Pegasus called Pegesus

[thin pawn]

I wonder why the phoenix myth is so widespread, there seem to be many different versions of the "phoenix" in many different cultures that are not entirely related

[clear lichen]

Or maybe Pehgasus

[white meadow]

Could be convergent, could be ancient cultural exchange since the Romans and China would buy and sell things to eachother. The ancient Romans thought Silk (a Chinese secret at the time) came from a tree and the Chinese traders laughed "Yeah... a tree". The Japanese god Fujin borrowed a lot or was at least based on the Greek god of the Wind Boreas which made its travel via those traders.

[thin pawn]

Interesting

[clear lichen]

Also, more accurately, the Hōō (or Fenghuang as it is known in its native language) supposedly used to originally include both genders, with males and females being referred to as "feng" and "huang," respectively. Well, at least according to Wikipedia

That said Ho-Oh is called Ho-Oh and not

Like

Ho

Or Oh

Idk

Wikipedia says nothing on what part of Hōō comes from feng and what part comes from huang

[white meadow]

hō (feng) ō (huang)

[clear lichen]

They are referred to Chinese phoenixes according to Wikipedia but they are completely unrelated to the phoenix

[white meadow]

So its a convergent thing

[clear lichen]

So calling Ho-Oh a phoenix would be inaccurate, imo

That said I knew none of this until today lmao

[white meadow]

It's cool learning new stuff

[clear lichen]

It is

I mean I didn't know that blue sea dragons had air sacs or supposedly maybe reflects harmful ultraviolet rays until today either

Why did I italicise supposedly and maybe separately

Also, average #pif-hoenn-discussion basically being #other-pokemon-games 2.0

[thin pawn]

Well there's not that much to discuss about pif hoenn to be fair

[clear lichen]

Anyways the blue sea dragon's genus name comes from a prophetic sea god

[clear lichen]

Which supports the Psychic Type plausibility

50 fucking types

"Holy shit"

That's all just from either traits the species already has or exaggerations of them

It's not like Gamefreak uses only 1 inspiration for each Pokemon

It probably has some other crazy thing justifying an entirely new type that I haven't even mentioned

Anyways fun marine lifeform fact: Sea Angels are gastropods. That's right, Manaphy is a slug.

[thin pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-delonge-blink182-wtf-meme-what-the-heck-first-date-gif-25383351

[white meadow]

Yes and the Manaphy Egg is based off a Jellyfish

[thin pawn]

That's crazy

I am shooketh

[full bison]

If we go by the mantra of "not all sea creatures need to be Water types" as established by Grapploct, Dragalge, Eelektross, etc. I could see a Dragon Slug being Dragon/Poison or Poison/Fairy

[clear lichen]

Fair, fair

In that case yeah Poison is probably the type I'd have 100% of the time

[full bison]

To be fair, birds by their very nature of being able to fly are able to be found pretty much everywhere, so multiple cultures prescribing mystical traits to them isn't that big a stretch

[thin pawn]

But so many of them are specifically tied to fire

And some to rebirth/regeneration

Maybe people just saw a bird flying in the sunlight and that's where the idea came from

[clear lichen]

OK but like a bird fucking conjuring fire is cool as shit

It's like having a bird conjure storms

[warm kraken]

Is hoenn going to be its own game?

If lunala and the other gen 7 pokemon aren't in the newest version of infinite fusions why are the files for the pokemon in the base game

[viscid fossil]

There are files for gigantimax toxtricity in the game.
They mean nothing.

[warm kraken]

I know

[inland jewel]

the base had them already- but Frog hasnt added ways to obtain

[quaint matrix]

They're placeholders for Frog to later add

[inland jewel]

its like how Alola had data for Ludicolo but 0 dex etries

[river zinc]

where can i download it?

pif hoenn

[inland jewel]

if what they say its true, not for another 2-3 months

[prime dust]

and even that will be a demo

which goes to Slateport

[spice sage]

Probably more than that

[inland jewel]

dang the 6 months prediction isn't true :

[prime dust]

partially expected

[random dragon]

Can we add more fusion moves for the hoenn mons?

[prime dust]

that'd be more of a thing for the wishes/ideas form in #server-forms for hoenn

[hollow mica]

if there could be an estimate when do we think pif hoenn would release or at the least a new upd

[trail hull]

Earliest at the end of the year and even then not likely

[inland jewel]

OG prediction was late october/november, but now that its pushed back, probably expect it in February

[vast arch]

question, what new species are you guys adding to it? it'd be nice to see some gen 8 and 9 'mons make their way in

[viscid fossil]

Gen 8 and 9 are never coming unless you can convince frog to go 2 years without any updates

[trail hull]

All the missing hoenn mons + Chingling

64 new additions total

But we’re getting 2 extra lines from the ongoing event

[rose bloom]

Gen 9 mons don't even feel like pokemon so I'm happy if they never come

[proud lion]

Also tomorrow is a surprise event

[full bison]

My guess is it's a furniture spriting contest, given all the secret base news

[trail hull]

Yes

All we know is that it will help out a lot to get points

[white meadow]

I'm just glad to have Spinda again

[full bison]

I'm just amused by how many people kept asking how Spinda would work in this. Like there was ever a chance at giving every individual sprite like 4 billion variants lol

[velvet root]

There was a chance that the Spot randomization gets added and we would have had to make non spot faces

[full bison]

That would also require making individual spot sprites for any variety on where they could end up on Spinda normally, which even then feels like an unnecessary amount of work for a gimmick that doesn't really impact that much

[velvet root]

It wouldnt
You do know how the randomization works right?

[gray stream]

wouldnt you still need to select where the spots can and cant appear on each sprite?

[vast arch]

That's an opinion

[midnight wharf]

Certain Gen 9 mons would make awesome fusions. Tinkaton, Armarouge, and Ceruledge come to mind.

Sadly, older verion of pokemon engine so... sad

[quaint matrix]

I mean the thing is we actually have a version of Pokemon Essentials that goes all the way to current Gen 9

It was released 2 years ago too I'm p sure

Frog just can't use it yet is all it seems

[inland jewel]

Its due to how the files were changed bteween essenttials versions

there is like 2 major file overhauls between that version and the one Frog uses for PIF

[quaint matrix]

Yea that's why I say can't use it

[inland jewel]

and while there are very very very few mons that can be added (thieval) its ust better to blanket ban since people will see those few exceptinos and use that as "Hey so this mon is in why not add the rest of gens 8-9

[thin pawn]

Any idea why some specific pokemon can't be added?

[inland jewel]

game code it uses for the project is incmopatible

so any new moves/items/abilities from gens 8-9 need to be coded in again

[thin pawn]

No but like Thieval for example

[inland jewel]

as opposed to everything from gens 1-7 that are already in the code just not obtainable

for that all the abilities and moves it needs are in the game already

they just need to import a sprite

[thin pawn]

Oh I see

[inland jewel]

if we get Skeledirge, it will be missing Torch Song

[thin pawn]

So theoretically it would be possible to switch the game to the engine that can have gens 8 and 9 pokemon, it would just be ridiculously difficult?

[inland jewel]

and thats like a huge part of it

[inland jewel]

more like having to program everything from scratch

[thin pawn]

I see

[inland jewel]

since Frog changed the base heavily to make fusions work

[thin pawn]

Makes sense

That's sad but it is what it is

[inland jewel]

the base then got updated twice, removing and restructuring its entire folder/file system when it updated (So Frogman didn't update and just stuck to the old code

so the latest release of the base project, and what PIF is, is like 3 times removed

[thin pawn]

That must've taken a lot of work

It's crazy that he did all that basically by himself, without accepting donations

Gotta respect it

[inland jewel]

yee it took like 10 years to get to this point, well 11 now sine the 10th anniversary was last year

[full bison]

It was this April, so still 10 years

[white meadow]

This would make for an amazing quest and a scenic place to get married in PIF 2

[shadow magnet]

I want to go to their wedding!!!

think of all the cute wedding and heart themed mons we could fight

and then we fight Bundt :D

imagine a triple fusion of like Slurpuff, Alcremie, and Vanilluxe tho

[zenith token]

[outer matrix]

Sadly no alcremie

[quaint matrix]

Well we got Lickilicky close enough

[thin pawn]

Thankfully no Alcremie

[rain locust]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

get urself a real fairy like tapu fini or hatterene

[low tree]

i like alcremie 😔

[trail hull]

Today there is the surprise

[clear lichen]

Can't wait to fight Red Pokemon in PiF Hoenn

[full bison]

Of all the Gen 8+ Pokemon I'm sad can't be added to PIF, Hatterene is absolutely not one of them. In fact it's probably the Gen 8+ Pokemon I'm happiest about not having a chance in, second only to Eiscue

Diet Coke Gardevoir

Yes it has better moves and stats but I still don't care for its uninteresting design

[sudden jackal]

Fun fact technically we could add a single Pokemon from gen 8 into the game and that is nikkit just nikkit not it's Evo

Doesn't mean we have any intention of doing so just fyi

[clear lichen]

Would be a funny troll tbf

Like purposefully adding a relatively unpopular Gen 8 Pokemon specifically to give false hope

[full bison]

Some people would probably be down bad enough for Stakeout to try and make it work

[sudden jackal]

What does this even mean

[full bison]

Stakeout is an incredibly good ability that a lot of people would want to make work, but it's only ever been on trash mons

[clear lichen]

Stakeout as it is is already a great ability but how much funnier would it be if it attacked before the opponent swapped out, like Pursuit

Like imagine you're playing RandBats

And you're trying to switch your Eternatus out of the battle

But Banded Gumshoos fucking nukes it into the next dimension

[full bison]

On one hand that sounds broken, but on the other it still wouldn't be enough to make me fear Spidops

[clear lichen]

Actually does Banded Gumshoos even need Stakeout for that

It hits like a fucking shitload of bricks in RandBats

Lvl 95 84 Atk Choice Band Gumshoos Double-Edge vs. Lvl 69 84 HP / 84 Def Eternatus: 283-334 (91.8 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Yeah no Gumshoos hits like a nuclear bomb

Lvl 95 84 Atk Choice Band Stakeout Gumshoos Double-Edge vs. Lvl 88 84 HP / 84 Def Bronzong: 191-225 (73.1 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Holy damage

Actual 0 switch-ins Pokemon

[languid oyster]

I saw the announcement, and I feel like the Burmy line would be cool to see in this game.

[weak trellis]

checks* oh yea it's on uh three earlygame com-mons, one of which has adaptability as an option (and unburden I guess, shame thievul's movepool decided to take the series off), and something with intimidate and still isn't good even with that

[trail hull]

Guys I found a way to make frog add gen 8 mons

We collectively give money to buy a copy of Pokémon sword or shield

[molten loom]

https://tenor.com/view/sml-marvin-what-a-waste-of-money-waste-of-money-waste-of-cash-gif-25347980

[velvet root]

Idk if that changes Frogs view on Gen 8+ mons

[full bison]

Scarlet and Violet have the better Pokemon anyway

I saw the Pokemon of Sword and Shield, felt whelmed and refused to buy it. Seeing the roster of Scarlet and Violet actually got me to buy it

[trail hull]

It was a joke guy

[soft sable]

eiscue is peak tho love that silly little guy

[white meadow]

To be frank I hate gen 8 starters. I may give gen 6 a pass for having an all humanoid starter cast, but I got sick of it when Scarlet and Violet arrived. I like humanoid Pokémon, especially among psychic and fighting types. However, I want starters to go back to being bestial Monsters like in the early gens. My beef is also how newer starters are portrayed with a human personality slapped onto them rather than being natural creatures.

[trail hull]

Starter aside there still are plenty of great mons

[full bison]

This is why Skeledirge is based

[thin pawn]

Corviknight is cool