#pif-hoenn-discussion

1 messages · Page 508 of 1

quaint matrix
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The most difficulty I ever got was uh

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Maybe doing some of the Legendary related quests

tropic dew
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Mm.

full bison
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My only thing with the Magic Boots is that I really hope the requirements only require the regional Dex instead of requiring every single Pokemon between both games

hushed axle
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Yea, I’m not sure how frog is planning to do that yet since it seems like not every mon will be available in the wild for each game BABA_IS_THINK

tacit saddle
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go my bugs

tropic dew
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or follow some kind of Outbreak-like mechanic.

velvet root
sterile spoke
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If it's something you guys are worried about, I'd definitely make a suggestion using the pinned form. I'm sure Frogman is thinking of it, and the Regional Dex would make more sense than the National one, but having a record of the suggestion to go back to is always a good idea. 🙂

velvet root
proud lion
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I had a dream where Frogman made emoji hints for new Pokémon

white zealot
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HOW DO I DO THE BUG GYM PUZZLE. IM SO CLOSE TO PUNTING MY COMPUTOR

trail hull
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Wrong channel

velvet root
hexed agate
trail hull
hexed agate
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Frog appeared to me in a vision

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He was ethereal, and spoke only the words "Elemental monkeys."

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Should I be concerned?

trail hull
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No

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That means you are the chosen one

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One that will brings despair and laugh to this land

hexed agate
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I'll start with the despair part

velvet root
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I see the monkey not being that bad
Except people just do minimal changes an call it a day like man Minun and Plusle sprites

sterile spoke
hexed agate
sterile spoke
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You are, but the elemental monkeys are not. 😛

hexed agate
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But Simisage has that cool hair and nice thumbs up...

sterile spoke
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Unrelated, but most of my top picks are now in IF, so I'm gonna make a new one that'd take us to 600. 😄

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hexed agate
clever grove
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Wait electrike is in the game?

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I don't recall ever finding one

deft obsidian
sterile spoke
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Gonna lock this in as the initial 35. 😄

image.png
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I suspect the Alolan starters are coming in whatever the next update batch is. 😅

velvet root
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Wouldnt the cherry mons evo be 2

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Also wow how much do you didslike Gogoat that tja Cherry is there

full bison
# velvet root Wouldnt the cherry mons evo be 2

Cherrim is an odd one because technically there's absolutely nothing different between Overcast and Sunny forms besides aesthetics, but it's such a big aesthetic difference that there's an argument to include both forms anyway.

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I'm on team 2 forms in regards to Cherrim cause I feel it would make for some amazing designs, but I can definitely see the argument against that

hexed agate
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I'm on mobile ATM and lazy

quaint matrix
full bison
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Mienshao would be one of the best additions, both from a gameplay and aesthetic sense

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On the aesthetic side, a Fighting type that emphasizes grace and elegance more than all others

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On the gameplay side, a glass cannon with Regenerator and Reckless, combined with being a solid Fighting type special attacker

velvet root
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Still have to finish that Mienshao

image-39.png
proud lion
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We need the elemental monkis. heehee

velvet root
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Wouldnt be too mad
Could be a non legend non starter triple fusion

proud lion
velvet root
quaint matrix
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I think enough time has passed that I'm confident people are at worst ambivalent about the ele monkeys getting added

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Ele monkeys are just neat little short kings/queens they'll just be a boon for PIF

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And they don't even have the worst stats (it's really essentially a Sharpedo spread if you think about it)

image.png
viscid wren
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I will throw hands for samurott

full bison
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Samurott and Serperior do not deserve to be shackled to Emboring's unpopularity

viscid wren
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Even Emboar has a lot of fusion potential

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If anything, I think serperior is the shackle here

hollow fern
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Emboar could make for some really cool designs, Serperior just doesn't have much going for it

viscid wren
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Too similar to milotic and other serpents

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I still think it could work though

median fox
quaint matrix
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Serpentine-types we really have so far is just Milotic, Arbok, and (soon) Seviper

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Great looking serpents but also like

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Two of them are mono-Poison and then the one that isn't is just Water

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I've always said having more Mono-type opens up a lot of Fusion possibilities because of how flexible having only one type is

viscid wren
quaint matrix
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Ehhhhh sadly can't count that

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Considering what its final evo is lol

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But that is also another one

viscid wren
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Theres a thing called eviolite

quaint matrix
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I mean sure

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Still my point stands regardless

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More serpentine-type/mono-type mons are just needed

velvet root
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All by @deft obsidian and great examples for Emeboar and Serperior

503_4.png Screenshot_20250613_171609_Discord.jpg
deft obsidian
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Many thanks.
Emboar might be ugly but it's really cool for fusion design 😤
And serperior is so hard heehee

velvet root
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Nah Emboar is awesome

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Like even the vanilla version

deft obsidian
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ikr, better than charizard imo
I do think samurott is pretty cool for fusion. especially with hisui version

velvet root
full bison
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I do genuinely want to see the kind of triple fusion the Unova starters would result in. I personally imagine a big hulking naga swordsman

weak trellis
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I dunno why but that ninetales/snivy makes me think of Togetic in terms of the body

rain locust
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or moltres/serp

median fox
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Like the only other starter as overwhelmingly simple is meganiums final evo

full bison
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Here's hoping that Kalosian/Mega (whichever happens) Meganium brings in some more fun design elements to work with

median fox
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Like
At all
I dont want an episode two of samarott and the bird
Where they werent good originally competitively and only got worse round 2

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Im hoping all 3 of them end up being good

full bison
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Samurott became amazing competitively after Arceus, FYM?

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Ceaseless Edge setting Spikes was meta defining, and Sharpness made it hit like a train

median fox
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I saw
None
I saw like 1 team with a samurott ever

full bison
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It was one of the top 15 picks in Smogon OU for months.

median fox
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Oh smogen

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I do NOT keep up with any of there stuff

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Personal view on how they handle banning things i dont personally agree with

So ivd never bothered looking into it

full bison
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Better than how Gamefreak themselves try balancing the meta

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IE they don't try at all

median fox
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I prefer the freedom to experiment then seeing
Just auto banning something thats only somewhat good

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I dont like the sheer number of limitations personally

full bison
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I prefer limitations over doing nothing while Flutter Mane and Urshifu run roughshod over the scene with almost nothing to impede them

median fox
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I hate the heavy limitations cause i like experimenting with weird af teama

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Some of which just dont work in there formats at all

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My one punch man flamigo doesnt work in even the normal games format though

crystal niche
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Speaking of competitve, I tried using FEAR with Kangaskan and it works pretty well

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Kangaskan gets Scrappy to make sure that they can't just bring in a ghost type to stop endeavor

random dragon
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Hear me out, triple or quadruple castform fusion, (ice/fire/water for the triple fusion, all 4 types for the quad fusion)

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Ability would probably be serene grace

keen ermine
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Please put Yveltal in the game

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🙏🏼

rain locust
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i love yveltal

random dragon
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We already have Yveltal at home

viscid wren
random dragon
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I was thinking hydreigon/yanmega, but that’s works too

keen ermine
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Imagine an Absol/Yveltal fusion

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Or even any Legendary/Yveltal fusion

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The aura farm those can create

viscid wren
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Well for now youll have to settle for a dark/flying lugia

trail hull
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Maybe next year

full bison
trail hull
keen ermine
# trail hull Maybe next year

I might enter the spriter team to do a hundred sprites for fusions for Yveltal, then wait until yall decide to put it in the game

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And release all of them

trail hull
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That’s great

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That’s what someone did for diancie

full bison
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And what someone else is waiting to do for Gogoat

rain locust
full bison
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Spriters get really passionate about their faves sometimes

keen ermine
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Idc how much time it'll get

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But it will be fated to happen

viscid fossil
keen ermine
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Prioritize, Idk, Yv- ahem Other mons, maybe the Paldean/Galarian starters

viscid fossil
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yahveltahl?

tropic dew
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idk, I'd get a kick out of having the Swords of Justice and Keldeo for the fusion potential. Same with the Gen V starter trio.

keen ermine
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Serperior needs to get out of the woods

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Honestly, not too much on the swords of justice guys, I don't rly like their chara designs, but that's me

keen ermine
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He's called a lot of names

tropic dew
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Serperior/Gardevoir is gonna have a lot of very pretty custom sprites. I can feel it in my bones.

velvet root
keen ermine
tropic dew
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Same for the reverse, Gardevoir/Serperior, assuming someone goes the way of Gardevoir/Milotic or Gardevoir/Ekans or Arbok

viscid fossil
full bison
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One one hand, amazing color scheme

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On the other, Rule 2 violations as far as the eye can see

keen ermine
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But the design...

full bison
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I think the design is fine, but I'm scared of how people will make sprites with it

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I've heard the horror stories about Goodra, we don't need a repeat of that

viscid fossil
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"Wait what did goo- oh. OH."

tropic dew
full bison
tropic dew
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Mood

outer matrix
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good designs, but fears of...yeah

keen ermine
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The goon is too strong for sum ppl to overcome

tropic dew
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It shouldn't be so damn hard to keep it in their pants, but alas

outer matrix
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moving on

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what gen 5 pokemon (besides the starters) would be cool for fusions?

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(for ones that we don't currently have)

tropic dew
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Swords of Justice+Keldeo as previously stated

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Also Braviary

tacit saddle
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stoutland

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zebstrika

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gigalith

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yes im going through a list

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lilligant

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fossils

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Most gen 5 pokemon tbh

tropic dew
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Oh, Lilligant fusions would be so freaking pretty...

outer matrix
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gigaliath might be painful as body fusions but it's one of my favorite gen 5 pokemon

minor vessel
velvet root
keen ermine
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I support Braviary at an insane degree

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Braviary might just be goated

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Staraptor, too

tropic dew
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Hmm... Victini fusions?

keen ermine
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Just a wild random birb, but it is smth that is good too

keen ermine
velvet root
keen ermine
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Smol pokes tend to be better fused with smil pokes...cuz with big ones, it isn't good

outer matrix
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there are some tsareena and salazzle fusions out there

velvet root
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Swoobat can be fun for fusions

full bison
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Mienshao and Darmanitan would be amazing

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Zen Mode might even end up a decently usable mon

tacit saddle
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MIENSHAOOOO

outer matrix
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zen mode might be a seperate dex number, right?

viscid fossil
tacit saddle
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cryogonal would be neat

viscid fossil
keen ermine
velvet root
tropic dew
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Archeops and Tirtouga...

viscid fossil
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can't wait to un-defeatist this goober

keen ermine
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Armarouge and its brother must be added

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Oh god

viscid fossil
keen ermine
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The potential fusions with those twooooooo

outer matrix
viscid fossil
velvet root
keen ermine
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I mean, fair enough

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I tried, ugh

outer matrix
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I mean, we can always make gen 8+ fusions, but they won't ever be added to the game unless you add the sprites in manually

keen ermine
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Even if I like, make the sprites ?

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I might actually do it

velvet root
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Triple monke when?

SimiTriple_2.png
keen ermine
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In the end

tropic dew
velvet root
keen ermine
tropic dew
velvet root
outer matrix
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the eyes remind me of a scientist though

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a mad scientist

velvet root
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Also I see it and Haunter become the "ACTUALLY" meme

outer matrix
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I'm bored, so I sketched out a wooper/shelmet

image.png
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and it's in a bronze shell

tropic dew
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I feel like Tsareena is a matter of When and not If, since her signature move is in the game already

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It'll just be... A VERY long time, unless folks can be more normal about her

rain locust
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does that mean zyg is gonna get added to the game

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thats 3 sigmoves already in the game

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he should be added 3x as fast

tropic dew
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Entirely possible, especially since Zygarde typically doesn't attract the kind of attention Tsareena or Salazzle do.

outer matrix
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continued the earlier fusion with vanilite/petilil

image.png
tropic dew
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I like it! Very friend-shaped

outer matrix
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one last one

image.png
tropic dew
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Chingchingling

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Wait no that's Cherrim and Chingling

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Honestly, in terms of Gen V stuff, I really enjoyed making movies in B2W2, since it involved a bit of puzzle solving with battles for all kinds of endings.

viscid wren
tropic dew
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Oop

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Right

full bison
tropic dew
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That's a shame...

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Also, what about the Elemental Hyper Beams for Starters, like Blast Burn and such? iirc they're in the game data but only accessible via debug?

velvet root
viscid wren
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Since when Tsareena draw the wrong crowd? (Or any crowd for that matter)

quaint matrix
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If you enforce the rule 2 and kept enforcing it what other harm can there be in having these types of mons

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There's only so many "we don't want a repeat of what happens to Gardevoir" reason to accept so many times before it just becomes a weird anti thing

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If this insistence was still being kept for before the game launched we might've never had Gardevoir or even Jynx in this game lol

outer matrix
tropic dew
# quaint matrix There's only so many "we don't want a repeat of what happens to Gardevoir" reaso...

That's also something I agree with. Like... I get the whole "not wanting rule 2 violations" thing, so pre-emptively cutting them off makes sense to a certain extent... but then you draw ire for not including the mons peoople want in the game.

I'm reasonably sure there were no plans to include Diancie way back in the day, up until the artist responsible for like... 90% of the existing custom fusion sprites made those customs, and then people wanted Diancie in the game because of all the pretty fusion sprites they made.

quaint matrix
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I have more to say about it but I'm gonna leave it at that lol

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I simply think not adding a mon because of "rule 2!/internet will ruin this" is like losing poker to a bird

tropic dew
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I feel like it's a situation where they don't want to deal with the violations as they happen, so they say "no thanks" outright to the requests to add mons like Tsareena, Salazzle and the like.

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moreso wanting to avoid a future headache from having to enforce the rules at all in multiple possible instances, than any actual pre-emptive enforcement of the rules.

warm skiff
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this server runs on two strings of toothfloss, we're already buckling under the weight of castform /j

tropic dew
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I mean

for the longest time, I just thought it looked funny, instead of anything weird in that way.

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like... I just chalked it up to a bad 'mon design period

quaint matrix
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Pokemon fandom is so large and with that large dedicated fanbase naturally comes the part of the silly weirder fanbase who likes mons for

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Furry reasons let's say

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I'm pretty sure Rule 2 violations has even happened a lot with other mons we're not thinking of like the Lycanrocs, Absols, Eevees and its Eons, etc

tropic dew
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I'll always be of the opinion that if you wanna be weird about Pokemon, do it in a space that allows for that. The PIF server is very definitely not for being weird in that way about Pokemon, so the fact people still continue to be that kind of weird in this space is pretty baffling at times.

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and sure, it would suck to have to constantly bonk folks with the Rule 2 bat, but it's still something that needs done when it happens, so again, saying no to 'mons like Tsareena and Salazzle because of "Rule 2 violations that could happen" says to me that these folks are getting tired of doing that part of their job and making it everyone else's problem.

warm skiff
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I don't think Salazzle is actually banned, right?
at the very least, I just think it'd be added with a ton of caution

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I just know there's a huge problem with nsfw sprites appearing, especially ones that get past filters for one reason or another

I can think of two recent ones that are in game rn

tropic dew
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Yeah they're not actually banned, but the folks who have been saying no to having them added would like you to think they are.

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At this point I'd just want them added so we can be done with the "pre-emptive Rule 2 enforcement" shenanigans altogether

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and if folks are worried that their custom Salazzle or Tsareena fusion sprites MIGHT violate Rule 2, then the smart thing would be to take one of the mods or whoever would be in charge of making sure Custom Sprites don't violate any rules, pull them aside, show the sprites you want to showcase to these people in question, preferably via private DMs, and then when they get the okay, show them off as per normal or something.

clear lichen
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Just saying, if we exclude Pokemon that people are uhh

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"Interested"

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In

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Then Scolipede should've never gotten in

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... Is it in, actually?

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I forgot

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:P

tropic dew
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It is

quaint matrix
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It is

clear lichen
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But yeah I'm bringing Scolipede up because that's simply how silly I find this rule

tropic dew
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Yeah, in fact, a bunch of well known non-humanoid Pokemon, if we applied that kind of logic, would also be disappeard from PIF.

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but they aren't.

clear lichen
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Well not the rule

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But the rule preventing the addition of Pokemon

tropic dew
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yeah the rule itself is fine

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but the exclusion of specific Pokemon on the basis of "well this could lead to lots of Rule 2 violations" is flimsy justification to say no.

clear lichen
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Yeah, if you look at numbers than really Scolipede would've been worse than Tsareena or Salazzle... or so I've heard

tropic dew
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It just says "I'm tired of bonking folks for violating this specific rule, so no one gets to have fun with these two in particular anymore"

clear lichen
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I have 0 fucking clue why people are interested in a massive angry centipede

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But just go with it

tropic dew
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it is what it is, I guess?

clear lichen
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Scolipede isn't one of my favourite Unovan Bug types

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But that's more so because the Unovan bugs are stacked

tropic dew
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Like I said, if folks want to be weird about something, it should be done in spaces that allow for that weirdness. The official PIF server is not the place for that.

clear lichen
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Like is a single bug type from Unova like, below a B tier

tropic dew
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and folks who insist on being weird in spaces that tell them to not be weird in those spaces need the boot. Or a time out.

median fox
tropic dew
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That freaking Vaporeon copypasta, man...

clear lichen
median fox
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Ive seen more then my asexual ass ever wants to i could probably list half the game

clear lichen
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We probably shouldn't linger on this topic though lmao

hushed axle
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It’s not really a hard rule or anything. If it was, lopunny never would’ve been added mrshrug

median fox
hushed axle
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But yes, let’s change the subject please

clear lichen
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Anyways

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Unkva has to be the region with the best bug types

tropic dew
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I blame 4chan exclusively for the sudden weird-ification of Vaporeon in particular. This is a recent phenomenon, and it is explicitly because they made Vaporeon into a sussy meme.

outer matrix
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Coolest gen 7 Pokémon?

clear lichen
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Like the only thing I could see someone saying has better bugs is Alola

quaint matrix
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It's not a hard rule but it seems like every time Salazzle or Tsareena or any other similar looking mons are up for discussion like "hey why aren't they adding this" a lot of people weirdly like to point out "yeah because we have rule 2 violations that will happen a lot if they get added"

clear lichen
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Because they also fucking cooked

clear lichen
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It isn't my favourite

tropic dew
quaint matrix
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Rather than a simple "well who knows it'll get added!"

clear lichen
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But it is definitely the coolest imo

quaint matrix
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The discussion seems to really like to swerve on that "internet will make them weird"

tropic dew
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as if the internet hasn't already done that.

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But anyway yeah. Gen 7 Pokemon are cool.

hushed axle
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Let’s move on from the topic of people being weird with creatures. This is the final warning

quaint matrix
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I'm glad Mightyena gets added

hushed axle
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Gen 7, Araquanid is one of my favs

quaint matrix
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Still patiently waiting on Furfrou (Fur Coat) my beloved

clear lichen
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I think the only regions I've seen nominated for best roster of Bug types are Gens 5, 7 and 9

quaint matrix
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Also the ele monkies

clear lichen
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Though 9 is a lot less common than the former 2

outer matrix
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I got a shiny araquinid a day ago

quaint matrix
outer matrix
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a random one

quaint matrix
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Their bugs are kinda ass like Gen 8s

clear lichen
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(For legal reasons this is a joke)

quaint matrix
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That's why I said kinda ass

hushed axle
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W/ Hoenn we do have surksit tho

tropic dew
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I dig Type: Null/Silvally on the whole "literal affront to God" schtick because it was designed explicitly to function like Arceus does in a mechanical sense

quaint matrix
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All Gen 8/9 got is aesthetics

hushed axle
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-# a

quaint matrix
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Cuz damn they ain't got shit in terms of gameplay

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And not even great aesthetics sometimes (Spidops LMAO)

clear lichen
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Like all it has is Lokix

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And Gen 8 has literally nothing for high level gameplay

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But I don't like letting that sway my opinion too much

quaint matrix
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Which is not to say I think they should be playable in high level competitive for it to be a successful Bug gen

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But also

clear lichen
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Oh actually Gen 8 has Kleavor

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Kleavor's decent

hushed axle
quaint matrix
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One word off on every keyboard don't mind me LMAO

tropic dew
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... I genuinely forgot Zeraora was a Gen 7 Pokemon. The Power of Us was just that forgettable of a Pokemon movie I guess. Especially compared to its immediate predecessor, "I Choose You!".

quaint matrix
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Anyway

hushed axle
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Vyt aksi huehue

clear lichen
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Slither Wing's also solid too iirc

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That's Gen 9

quaint matrix
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Frosmoth, Spidops, that UFO bug that was actually really cool looking but is just kinda ass outside of Gantamaxxin

clear lichen
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Tbf, most Bugs aren't good

tropic dew
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Honestly, I dig a lot of Gen 9 Paradox mons. The concept is cool, but it's not as cool as they COULD be.

quaint matrix
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Gen 5 and 7 has its own stinkers (Leavanny) gameplay wise but damn are they actually doing work in lower level comp still

clear lichen
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In terms of competitive, Gen 7 is definitely the best gen of Bugs

quaint matrix
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It's a bit annoying that their naming scheme are all just very

clear lichen
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Simply for having Pheromosa and Buzzwole

quaint matrix
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Noun + Noun

median fox
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Frosmoth is actually fire its just got some of the worst typing ever

quaint matrix
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Worse for Future Paradox because they're all just Iron

tropic dew
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Like... I feel like the Paradox Pokemon would register more as Pokemon if they, I dunno... had evo lines for some of them?

quaint matrix
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And that's not just English thing either their Japanese names are straight up just descriptors

median fox
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Snom

clear lichen
quaint matrix
median fox
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Its a great pokemon outside of its typing though

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Thats the thing

clear lichen
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Frosmoth being a slow frail Ice type is so sad

median fox
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Its typing is SO bad though

quaint matrix
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Not with that 60 speed it doesn't

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Weavile's typing is dog-ass defensively but that doesn't stop it from becoming an OU staple for generations

median fox
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Torkoals amazing and its got one of the lowest in the games

quaint matrix
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Yeah but Fire as a defensive type puts in work

clear lichen
quaint matrix
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That too

clear lichen
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Without Drought you're not gonna see it anywhere

median fox
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Frosmoth persists outside of OU as a consistent trick room pokemon just doesnt match as well

tropic dew
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If it were up to me, I'd make the Paradox Pokemon all Friendship evos, wherein they'd go from their "Paradox" state to something that actually resembled the Pokemon they were derived from.

Like if Iron Valiant evolved into a proper Gallade + Gardevoir fusion, and had an Ability that gave it STAB on Psychic moves even though it still retains its previous Fairy/Fighting typing.

median fox
clear lichen
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Like imagine being forced to be run in Trick Room despite having Quiver Dance because your speed is just that dogshit

median fox
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Im still running torkoal in trick room despite everyone i play against consistently removing it with rain and snow teams

clear lichen
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The pain

quaint matrix
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I mean

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It being very defensively bulky would help with that

clear lichen
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Pretty bulky on the special side though I suppose

median fox
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Ive never had any issues with frosmoth on my team with it
I just generally dont play it cause its more gimmicky at times

clear lichen
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Because of the ability and all

median fox
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Every team i have plays around a strong gimmick

quaint matrix
median fox
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4-5 pokemon purely meant to make the othwrs great

quaint matrix
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In relative terms Torkoal is a bulker

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Is it equal a bulker like Ferrothorn like yeah of course not

clear lichen
#

Torkoal is one of those Pokemon in terms of bulk

quaint matrix
#

But it does what it does well

clear lichen
#

Extremely good Physical Defence

#

But middling HP

#

And SpD

#

So it's like

#

Kinda specially frail tbh

tropic dew
#

I think my biggest disappointment with the Paradox Pokemon in general, was that when all three of both the Past and Future Paradox Legendary trios were released, there was no sidequest to fuse them into their "Imaginary Paradox" forms from their associated Book, because I was SO DANG SURE that the little cave where wild Iron Valiants could be found was some kind of room where you had to have your three Legendary Paradox mons in your party to trigger an event.

quaint matrix
#

Yeah but not every mon can be a Forretress or a Ferrothorn in terms of being a bulker

clear lichen
#

Good in Doubles TR for spamming Eruption, I've heard

clear lichen
#

High physical bulk, but is specially frail

median fox
#

Torkoal has decent bulk but trades not being the bulkiest with having VERY high damage

quaint matrix
#

Bug/Steel is definitely a better defensive typing than Fire

clear lichen
#

Ferrothorn is the GOAT though

quaint matrix
#

Call the presses on that one

clear lichen
#

0 generations being bad in either OU or Ubers

#

Because it's simply built different

median fox
#

Only pokemon i personally disagree with being good
Is kingambit

quaint matrix
#

It's almost like Rough Skin is a great ability

median fox
#

I just dont see the vision at all

quaint matrix
#

On top of being basically Bug/Steel (ish)

median fox
#

Its always the least good on my team

clear lichen
tropic dew
clear lichen
#

But it is great

clear lichen
median fox
clear lichen
#

Most people talking up Kingambit are referring to its Singles performance

#

Where it's an absolute menace

median fox
clear lichen
tropic dew
#

Like... if you don't have Kingambit come out last on your team, you are not using Kingambit correctly. Like Geeta. One of the worse Champion teams I've ever seen.

median fox
clear lichen
#

Has 1 more weakness but a ton more resistances

clear lichen
median fox
quaint matrix
clear lichen
#

It's still balanced in the current state of the metagame

median fox
#

Thats easy to destroy if your prepped

clear lichen
#

That said that may be because people are complaining more about Kyurem, Gliscor and Wogerpon

median fox
#

And singles its just "haha me win noooow"

#

Ogerpon is gonna fal off fast once terras arent involved

clear lichen
#

You know who is falling off fast?

#

Regieleki

#

Motherfucker's going from Ubers to RU

#

I'm calling it right now

quaint matrix
#

Crazy how much Tera as a mechanic proves the undeniability of how some types are just straight up broken

clear lichen
#

At best

median fox
clear lichen
#

Because it was bad in Gen 8 UU

median fox
#

Urshifu needs to he slaughtered

clear lichen
quaint matrix
#

Avalugg going to NU/UU for the first time of its life because it can afford to not be stuck with Ice wow shock of the century

median fox
#

Yea but i feel like others are better without it

clear lichen
#

And Wellspring benefits less than Hearthflame or Teal from Tera

#

To the point I can't see it falling out of OU

#

Well, just because of Tera, that is

tropic dew
#

Honestly, in terms of Gen 9 characters I dislike the most, it has to be Geeta. Genuinely garbage team comp, overworks my boy Larry, and is responsible for proliferating the system of "Champion-class" trainers that devalues the idea of becoming Pokemon League Champion, because it's not a title you can lose in Paldea. The corpo-fication of the Elite 4 is also several degrees of asinine, even if I like the individuall E4 members.

clear lichen
#

Helps that the Masks just give an unconditional 1.2× damage boost

#

For some reason

clear lichen
quaint matrix
#

I think I've said this before but the few times Tera was cool to me was when I find out Dragonite's preferred Tera is Normal because of ExtremeSpeed and the tier its in surprisingly not that jampacked with Fighting type moves

median fox
#

Maybe
I dont keep up with the ous and such balance wise for personal reasons

clear lichen
#

Like if you showed me this team and I didn't know their movesets

tropic dew
clear lichen
#

I'd say Geeta is the hardest champion

quaint matrix
#

Outside of that Tera just does what I expected it does when I find out

clear lichen
#

Also, she uses Tera Flying Kingambit in the DLC lmfao

quaint matrix
#

Makes weak Pokemon okay-ish and strong mons even more broken (with maybe a few of them slagging off as collateral)

median fox
clear lichen
#

Volcarona has just been on a constant journey to the top and with Tera it finally made it

median fox
#

But some just get more out of it then others

weak trellis
clear lichen
weak trellis
#

which is always a pokemon that wierds me out since the only experience I've had using it is in Masters which may as well be equivalent to using it in Smash for how much it relates to main series lol

tropic dew
#

Man, Volcanion and Zeraora are probably among the most forgettable Mythicals of their respective generations, huh?

weak trellis
#

it's more that I just missed out on its distribution so kinda the same thing as Zarude for me

median fox
#

Like
Incinaroar hasnt changed how good or bad he is imo
But torkoal got so much better
And some like urshifu(hate you) got as much out of it
As the bad ones

clear lichen
tropic dew
#

sgdsgd

clear lichen
#

And I keep remembering Mega Diancie for actually being a good Pokemon

median fox
#

I forgot hoopa even existed

clear lichen
#

So I guess by process of elimination yeah

median fox
#

Like
I geniunely didnt remember hoopa was real

clear lichen
#

Imagine having 680 BST and still being UUBL

#

Fucking fraud

#

Bro doesn't even have a drawback ability

#

🤡

median fox
#

Honestly i think he just has no moves better then pokemon of the same levek as him

tropic dew
#

I'd have considered Shaymin to be a cute little grass hedgehog... had I not seen the Giratina movie. Now I see it as an entitled little snot that only causes problems.

clear lichen
quaint matrix
clear lichen
#

It's being a slow frail mixed attacker

#

That just so happens to be quad weak to bug

quaint matrix
#

Poop/Dump

median fox
#

It just seems like its got nothing
Better ofher then stats being high

clear lichen
#

Which means it's quad weak to U-Turn

#

Also, forgive me if I'm wrong

#

But doesn't Psychic/Dark have literally 0 resistances?

quaint matrix
#

Yes

thin pawn
#

Hoopa is such a nothing pokemon

clear lichen
#

Yikes

quaint matrix
#

Literally all it got is an immunity to Psychic

#

Aka

#

Something that Psychic already resists

#

So like

#

Just a literal nothing Pokemon defensively

clear lichen
#

Dark somehow managing to make a bad type even worse

#

Crazy

median fox
#

Cause like
The way ive seen it is "75-90" is the speed thats just generally bad to have
like
You outspeed little normally
Your too fast for trick room
But
Your too slow for tailwind

quaint matrix
#

Same issue Malamar got but at least Malamar is a normal mon

tropic dew
#

Its entire purpose was to be a Pokemon that facilitated cameos in its movie and in ORAS. That's basically it.

quaint matrix
#

And Contrary does more work than uh

#

Whatever Hoopa or Unbound got

clear lichen
#

Magician

#

Iirc

thin pawn
median fox
#

Ive seen it more called "decent" speed
Great for tailwind teams

clear lichen
#

I remember earlier in the generation Eternatus felt slow in Gen 9 Ubers

weak trellis
#

the 65-99 speed stat hell

clear lichen
#

Because so many of the major threats outsped and OHKOd it

weak trellis
#

too fast for trick room too slow for the base 100 crowd

clear lichen
#

... It has 130 speed

#

Miraidon's fucking gone though rest in piss bozo

median fox
#

It say its more 75

clear lichen
#

Look, Miraidon's one of my favourite Pokemon

#

But like

#

Fuck that mf in Competitive

median fox
#

I just hate urshifu

clear lichen
#

Piece of shit

median fox
#

And urshifu

#

Both urshifu and urshifu

thin pawn
#

I don't like gholdengo

median fox
#

I hate

clear lichen
#

Kingambit's another Pokemon I like that I wish would go kill itself in competitive

#

Without Tera it's fine

median fox
#

Ive played with some dude who ran double urshifu teams

thin pawn
clear lichen
#

With Tera I fucking hate fighting it

#

Even if it isn't objectively broken

median fox
#

But protect is fhe foundation of how competitive playing works in evrry context anyone plays it in

clear lichen
median fox
#

Purely customed
Ous and such
Or current

median fox
clear lichen
#

So after crit they don't have a ridiculous amount of BP

#

Very high but not like

median fox
#

The math of rapid strikes bp for crit plus all hits is 113 or so

clear lichen
#

"FUCK OFF" high

#

Like it's not like 120 BP

median fox
#

A guaranteed
100+ p move
Through anything

clear lichen
#

So it isn't as terrible as it could be

median fox
#

And a 120 without his ability would be easy pickings

thin pawn
#

It's not like they even have bad stats

clear lichen
#

Then 7 is probably a pretty decent margin too

median fox
#

Its the most consistent move at the 110 range though
Its the most consistent move in the game imo

#

I just despise that its got everything going for itself just a little better then anyone else

clear lichen
#

Yeah it is consistent I will give it that

median fox
#

Other then supporting

clear lichen
#

Though at least you won't get KOd by a random crit you didn't see coming!

median fox
median fox
clear lichen
#

Idk, I like not worrying about random crit

median fox
#

Id rather then random chance
Then the 100% satisfaction gurantee from such a high power move

clear lichen
#

Urshifu's just broken in Singles for having big fucking damage

median fox
#

Hes busted in doubles to theres just a couple pokemon busted in doubles rn

clear lichen
#

Unseen Fist isn't extremely relevant here

#

Since Protect is nowhere near as common

median fox
#

Incinaroar flutter mane and urshifu
I think rillaboom to but i might be wrong

clear lichen
#

If it's broken in Singles despite the ability not being too useful

median fox
#

And those horses

clear lichen
#

Then yeah

#

No fucking wonder it ruins Doubles

median fox
#

Like hmm yes the move teams are practically built around
How ahout i say no and do it anyway

clear lichen
#

Tbf, Watershifu wouldn't be broken this gen

#

if it wasn't for Tera

still halo
clear lichen
#

Iirc that's the main thing that pushed it over the edge this gen

median fox
#

I think hed still be extremely good in doubles

rain locust
#

and urshifus getting sd this gen

clear lichen
#

It isn't too common contrary to popular belief, it's really only it, Espathra, Volcarona and Eleki I feel

clear lichen
median fox
#

Hes getting what this gen

#

I forgot what sd was

clear lichen
#

Yeah maybe it would get banned even without Tera then...

clear lichen
median fox
#

OH GOD NO PLEASE

#

no no no no no
Id rather the tera as a move

clear lichen
#

Anyways

median fox
#

My nightmares have become true

clear lichen
#

Incineroar probably has the biggest difference between Singles and Doubles performance

#

But who has the least, I wonder?

median fox
#

Amoongus to id say

clear lichen
#

And sleep ban wasn't because of it, but because of Darkrai and to an extent Iron Val

still halo
#

Was Lando T cracked in doubles? Intim usually helps with that

clear lichen
#

But I think it's a lot rarer this gen

median fox
#

Amoongus has incredible bulk and imo one of if not the best supporting move list

clear lichen
#

So idk what you're talking about

#

Wishpass gaming

quaint matrix
#

Lando T didn't age well nowadays didn't it

#

Same with Tyranitar and Garchomp

clear lichen
#

Also, the funny thing about Amoonguss is that it isn't that bulky

#

It has higher offences than defences

#

And the defences are sitting in the 70s iirc?

#

It just has a good type, reliable recovery, great ability and good moves

median fox
#

Not nearly as good as amoongus
Especially consistency wise
Theres never been a time hes not good
And hes one of very few pokemon to hold 3 worlds (like 8 or 9 i think total)

clear lichen
#

But yeah, Amoonguss has been good in Singles

#

And Incineroar hasn't

#

Well, in a higher tier

#

But I've heard it's great in tiers like RU and NU

median fox
#

Incinaroar
Thunderous
Amoongus
Salamance
Cressellia

clear lichen
#

As for the smallest difference between VGC and Singles

#

.... Yeah, probably Flutter Mane

median fox
#

5 have won 3

clear lichen
#

Fucking broken piece of shit

median fox
clear lichen
#

I fucking HATE Flutter Mane

#

Caly-S too, maybe

#

But I feel it is significantly more broken in Singles than Doubles

median fox
#

Only reason i dont hate it is because i use it for trick room setting on my torkoal team
Its JUST there to tank damage damage and trick room

median fox
still halo
clear lichen
#

Overshadowing Mega Rayquaza, Pre Nerf Zacian

#

Whatever

#

It's just that broken

median fox
#

High special damage that hits both opponents
Decent bulk
Incredible speed

clear lichen
#

I don't doubt it's great in Doubles

#

I just struggle to see it be anywhere near as broken

median fox
clear lichen
median fox
clear lichen
#

The difference between Singles and Doubles is too great

median fox
#

Yea

clear lichen
#

Because there isn't a doubt in my mind Calyrex Shadow is the most broken Pokemon to ever exist

#

Excluding Gen 1 Mewtwo

#

Gen 1 Mewtwo is a whole different level of insane

#

It was already almost banned to AG in Gen 8

median fox
#

Yea
Theres still INSANE in doubles
But theres so many at the same power level or as duos can just compete and excel

clear lichen
#

Then you remove its best check

#

And give it Tera

#

And it's all over

median fox
#

Both calys are great just on opposite team styles

#

Trick rooms better in doubles by a ton

#

And tailwind

clear lichen
#

Yeah, in Singles Ice Rider is still great but nowhere near its Doubles performance

median fox
#

So even if you suck outside of those
Doubles will find ways to make them work

median fox
clear lichen
#

The difference between Zamazenta in Singles and Zamazenta in Doubles is gargantuan

median fox
#

Its incredible
In like 2 specific playstyles in doubles otherwise its got nothin in comparison

#

Ah i missread that

#

Dyslexias a bitch today

clear lichen
#

Zamazenta is great! ... in OU

#

And Crowned isn't OU, so it's great nowhere

#

Which is a big contrast to it being one of the better restricteds, from what I've heard

median fox
#

Some teams ive played using are essentially built around just.hitting decently hard but never going down

clear lichen
#

Body Press may have been an amazing buff, but it didn't outweigh the stat and ability nerfs in Singles

median fox
clear lichen
#

Also, I get that they're a duo

#

But why did they nerf Zamazenta?

#

They nerfed Eleki

#

But left Drago alone

median fox
clear lichen
#

Couldn't they have at least done the same with Zamazenta ability-wise?

#

They also nerfed Cresselia without nerfing Darkrai in Gen 9

median fox
#

Honestly the drago alone part is cause uo until recently he wasnt
Actually nearly as good

clear lichen
#

And they are also a duo

#

Despite one being a mythical and the other a legendary

median fox
#

Zamazenta being nerfed confuses me still infinitely cause
No other duo where one was objectively worse was also nerfed when the crazy one was best

clear lichen
median fox
clear lichen
#

In Singles, at least, idk how much Neutralising Gas is used in Doubles

median fox
#

So
Still second but at least 3 of them have a resume

median fox
clear lichen
#

Regigigas did not deserve Slow Start

#

I get that it has box art level stats

#

But like

#

Keep in mind

#

You need to transfer 3 legendaries

rain locust
clear lichen
#

Thar are extremely cryptic to obtain

#

Over to a different game

#

Just to get it

#

And it also is the leader of said legendaries

median fox
#

The teams that are ok to not have abilities play into galarian weezings playstyle is great in trick room if you dont need abilities

clear lichen
median fox
#

It actually makes some pokemon better at times but not very often honestly

clear lichen
#

Speaking of the geezer

#

It's funny how Misty Terrain is just worse than the other terrains

#

It's nice for Fini to not get Toxiced I suppose

#

But that's about all there is to it

#

Because you sure as hell aren't halving 0 anyways

#

Ig it helps for your teammates

#

But like

#

Every other terrain gives a damage boost to the type

#

And also gives a great boost to the terrain move

#

While still having some fun niche effect

#

Like halving the damage of Earthquake

#

Or preventing Sleep

#

Or Priority

#

That said, Fairy doesn't need a buff

#

So fair enough

median fox
#

Yea id rather fairy not be significantly stronger suddenly

#

Honestly
I miss conkeldurr being super strong

#

Urshifu has been around for 4 years and has won worlds half those years
And im not sure if it was legal for 2 of those

full bison
#

It's funny how one of the primary reasons people defended Dexit back in the day was the idea that Gamefreak cared about balance, especially when they made Urshifu just a little bit later

#

If anything, Gens 8 and 9 proved beyond a doubt that Gamefreak doesn't have the slightest idea how to balance anything

outer matrix
#

With championship releasing later, maybe the next generation won't have urshifu

full bison
#

Really all Urshifu needs to be more bearable is making Unseen Fist so that hitting through Protect does significantly reduced damage. That and giving Single and Rapid actually distinct preview sprites

#

It's absurd that there's just a Pokemon that rewards mindlessly pressing A

median fox
#

yep

outer matrix
#

We need more Pokémon with aftermath or innards out

#

Or, well, stronger Pokémon with them

full bison
#

Technically the issue with the Mon Innards Out is attached to is that it has defenses that are too good

primal pilot
#

Okay I have to ask. Falinks. Will he be in the initial set of Pokemon for the next Infinite Fusion? He has SO MUCH potential and is my favorite Pokemon. So eager to see his weaknesses reduced with fusions and his strengths enhanced.

Anyone planning to make sprites with him right away?

I know I won't get an answer but the inner Falinks fan forced me to post

full bison
#

As much as I agree Falinks would make for amazing sprites, the games just aren't compatible with Gen 8+ Pokemon

#

It runs on a version of Poke Essentials that doesn't include Gen 8 Pokemon, and updating the game to a newer version is way easier said than done

#

So Gen 8+ mons are not eligible for addition at any point in the foreseeable future

primal pilot
#

ShitShitShi

tacit saddle
#

I know I won't get an answer
you have little faith in us

quaint matrix
#

Just make Normal effective against it

#

And I will say it multiple times!!!

median fox
#

Yess

quaint matrix
#

Also make Normal be immune to Fairy

#

Anyway if I keep going on it will lead me into my anti-Water agenda so I will stop right there

keen ermine
keen ermine
clever grove
#

I really want to see a triple fusion with zygarde/yveltal/xerneas whenever they get added

keen ermine
atomic verge
deft obsidian
prime dust
viscid wren
#

Spheal, koffing, viltorb fusion for the ultimate ball

viscid fossil
prime dust
tropic dew
#

I kind of hope that, if Triple Fusion comes up in the story of PIF Hoenn, Archie, or more likely Maxie, if we're going by ORAS designs, will insist upon calling Triple Fusion "Delta Fusion" due to personal preference, and assert that his name is the better name for the phenomenon.

#

Just because ORAS Maxie is the exact kind of dork who would ERM ACKSHULLY at someone.

#

"Uh, sir. The phenomenon has been documented before. It's simply called Triple Fusion."

"Hrm, how uninspired. Leave it to the witless masses to be content with something so... blandly branded."

#

Like... ORAS Archie would call it Delta Fusion and freely admit he uses the term because it sounds cooler, while ORAS Maxie would come up with all kinds of pointless justifications to make himself sound smarter for using it.

ruby marsh
#

triple fusions would have like

#

trillions of possible fusions

#

would be cuhrazy

#

like around 15 trillion i think

tropic dew
#

If they were as unrestricted as normal Fusions, sure. But in-universe, Triple Fusions occur when the three Pokemon are compatible in a "because the plot says so" sense

#

Basically, they have to be thematically similar, or part of a proper, established Trio

#

which is why the "canon" Triple Fusions are all Starter Trio fusions, existing Legendary Trios, or are thematically/visually similar Mythicals.

#

Though I'lll admit that Mew+Celebi+Jirachi being a proper triple fusion is stretching it, because they only really have the "small, vute and very powerful" schtick going for them.

#

Like, Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Genesect are a better thematic fit, due to being "unearthly" in some way. In Mewtwo and genesect's case, they're man-made genetic abominations, while Deoxys is an incomprehensible invader from the cosmos

prime dust
#

Deoxys is the Flying Spaghetti Monster

sour glacier
#

What about Gastly, Grimer and Trubbish evolutions lines as the trio fits the themes of pollution via Air, Water and Land

severe flare
#

I kinda hope for the Pokemon Infinite Fusion: Hoenn you would go to Sinnoh.

trail hull
#

Maybe but that probably will be after we get the entirety of hoenn

next flare
full bison
sour glacier
full bison
#

Gotcha

#

They're both first stage gaseous Gen 1 mons, understandable mistake

trail hull
#

We need to see the triple fusion rocket was making with sandshrew arbok and zubat (unsure of the third one if I remembered correctly )

viscid wren
#

Rattata not zubat iirc

ruby marsh
#

give unrestricted triple fusion access

#

🙏

#

for ALL mons

viscid wren
#

Never, please dont

ruby marsh
#

my game should take WEEKS to load 😼

#

maybe even months or years

#

the longer the better

molten loom
viscid wren
#

Yet its been sprited lol

ruby marsh
#

weedle wurmple and caterpie triple fusion

viscid wren
#

Thatd get complicted with the evos

ruby marsh
#

actually scatterbug not weedle

#

so they all butterflies

viscid wren
#

Wurmple is the problem

#

Since its a split evo

ruby marsh
#

🤔

#

evil ultra butterfly (beautifly) and kind sweet wonderful ultra butterfly (dustox)

viscid wren
#

Dustox im pretty sure is a moth also

ruby marsh
#

lepidopterids then

molten loom
viscid wren
#

I know, Im just saying its funny

#

You can technically see it you just cant have it heehee

full bison
#

Could definitely make something amazing looking with that

viscid wren
#

Bug, Poison, Fire
Sounds like an awful combination

clear lichen
#

Once Frosmoth gets added 23 years later there should be a Frosmoth/Venomoth/Volcarona fusion

#

It'd be ass but who gives a shit

full bison
clear lichen
#

Ditch the Bug type and leave it in a ditch

#

Now you only die in 2 switch ins!

ruby marsh
#

earthquake

inland jewel
#

since thats what happens with the Origin Trio

clear lichen
#

Simply don't add the Bug type

inland jewel
#

its a Water/Steel/Ghost single type with Dragon as its secondary type

clear lichen
#

Because I don't feel like dying instantly

#

Actually wait wtf am I talking about

inland jewel
#

its how triple fusions go, name one where one of its types are left out

clear lichen
#

If we're talking Frosmoth we're talking HDB

#

Ain't got no Stealth Rocks to worry about

full bison
#

Kyodonquaza is just Water/Ground/Flying with no Dragon TBF, though that could be chalked up to only Ray being a Dragon I guess

clear lichen
#

When you can just wear a funny pair of shoes

ruby marsh
#

brock solos

inland jewel
#

Like how triple regis have 8x weakness to fighting

#

though realistically when was the last time you ever saw a fusion use a rock move?

ruby marsh
#

geodude+geodude fusion neg diff

clear lichen
#

Otherwise they're getting outsped and obliterated by Ice Beam

ruby marsh
#

🤔

clear lichen
#

And hazards will prevent Sturdy from activating

ruby marsh
#

what about

clear lichen
#

Hazards my beloved ♥️

ruby marsh
#

gigalith/gigalith

#

pure rock

#

or aggron

clear lichen
#

Simply die vs Gigalith

ruby marsh
#

cuz thats rock steel, resistance to ice and stab rock movies

clear lichen
#

But I reckon Aggron's special bulk is low enough to get massively chunked by a fire move

ruby marsh
#

he just has to tank one move to land that sweet sweet 8x rock damage

clear lichen
#

But since it's a fusion it's just worse than Volcarona

#

So unless it has a Quiver Dance up I doubt it OHKOs

#

Yknow it's funny how in lore fusions are supposed to be just far stronger than a normal mf

#

But gameplay doesn't give a shit about lore implications

#

If you fuse like shit you're gonna get cooked

#

Ngl, Volcarona/Slither Wing/Iron Moth would be sick

ruby marsh
#

greatest pain is seeing a really cool fusion and it has like ass base stats 💔

clear lichen
#

I wonder what that'd look like

#

85/135/79/140/110/110

#

Not as much of an abomination as I'd expect

#

None of them have high Defence at all

full bison
#

I honestly wonder if the Paradoxes would even be considered for PIF

clear lichen
#

Except for Flutter Mane

#

Flutter Mane can stay out and fuck off

full bison
#

Cause aside from the Gen 8+ limitation, what do we even get from the Paradoxes that we don't get from their original counterparts

clear lichen
full bison
#

I can maybe see arguments for Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon, but that's it

clear lichen
#

Like the beasts

#

Iron Val

#

Slither Wing

#

Koraidon and Miraidon

clear lichen
#

It isn't exactly something that's new

#

Every fusion with Iron Valiant becomes a triple fusion (kinda)

#

And that's cool

#

It also has the average Psychic Type moveset

#

Despite not being a Psychic type

#

How tf does someone fuse 2 Psychic types with the intent of making the ultimate Psychic type

#

Then end up removing the Psychic type

#

This is why I don't trust the Pokedex man

#

It just doesn't make sense for like half the dex entries

#

Including all the Paradoxes

median fox
#

Amoongus paradox holds a less supportive role on average

#

Iron hands is sadly just
What if haryama but better

clear lichen
#

AKA never

median fox
#

I love hariyama but like
Hes just better in every conceivable way

clear lichen
#

Because why tf would you not use Regenerator

median fox
#

Cause it just isnt as tanky in a real match

clear lichen
#

Ig it'd be better for offensive fusions yeah

median fox
#

And also base amoongus is just THAT good

#

That the new version became the second best one

clear lichen
#

But it isn't exactly good offensively

#

I think Bonnet has better bulk than Amoonguss

#

But the type and ability diff makes Amoonguss last longer anyways

median fox
#

Not better by enough to make it better though

clear lichen
#

Me when I'm in a dogshit defensive type competition and my opponent is Grass/Dark:

median fox
#

Amoongus is just way more encouraged to play its super strong game

median fox
clear lichen
#

Ice/Bug has less weaknesses

#

But also less resists

#

You could probably debate which is worse

#

But they're both dogshit

#

Woag

median fox
#

Its weaknesses that it has are WAY harder hitting though

#

Fire is veryVERY common offensively

#

In every team styke

clear lichen
#

Grass/Dark is also weak to Fire

median fox
#

Not 4×

clear lichen
#

And you sure as hell aren't staying in whether you're 2× weak or 4× weak

median fox
#

Ive had mons survive 2x weak a lot

#

Hell ive had one tank a 2 times rapid strike urshifu 3 turns in a row once

clear lichen
#

Ig Bonnet is in the bulk range where it could survive a 2× weak but not a 4× weak

median fox
#

Bulkius maximus

clear lichen
#

However, if you're the GOAT like Ferrothorn, you simply tank the quad SE move

median fox
#

Except them

clear lichen
#

Because Ferrothorn is FerroGOATed

median fox
#

Goatedthorn

clear lichen
#

Also, quad weak U-Turn isn't too bad to tank

#

I mean you're gonna get hit by like

#

70%

#

By a pivot move

#

That is extremely common

#

Even from the weaker users

#

But like

#

You didn't instantly die I guess???

#

Unless you're Hoopa Unbound

median fox
#

Honestly
I dont see u turn often

clear lichen
#

Then you're fucked

median fox
#

But im a doubles battler so
U-turn has less value on a lot of teams

clear lichen
#

Hoopa Unbound when the Yanma uses U-Turn:

#

(It is dead in the next 10 seconds)

median fox
#

You dont want u turn very often on hard trick room teams cause only
1 pokemon might make use of it (the secondary faster opener)

clear lichen
#

Yeah on Doubles U-Turn isn't as good

median fox
#

And my palafin team uses 4 switch moves

clear lichen
#

But on Singles you could probably argue it's the best move in the entire game

median fox
#

But thats cause those switches are LITERALLY the goal of the team

median fox
#

Doubles its more niche

clear lichen
#

There's a bunch of moves that are crazy in Singles though

#

There's also stuff like Stealth Rock/Spikes and Knock Off

median fox
#

You need the speedy frail pokemon to leave for trick room

You want to play palafin ever

clear lichen
#

Where they completely shape metagames around them

median fox
#

Those are the two main niches

median fox
clear lichen
#

Singles wouldn't be the same without Stealth Rocks

median fox
#

Its almost more of a threat

clear lichen
#

Imagine Volcarona except it's actually holding a fucking Life Orb

#

Or Leftovers

median fox
#

Because of the fact that a lot of pokemon might rely on there items

clear lichen
#

Ho-Oh with Leftovers

#

It is so over

median fox
#

Assault vest and the "1 move again and again" items are consistent

#

Left overs
Berries of healing
White herb
Black sludge (i used once)

#

Life orb burn orb
Use the poison orb on a tatsugiri

clear lichen
#

Black Sludge is jobless in the Tera Meta

median fox
clear lichen
#

Why run Black Sludge and basically force yourself to never Tera when you can run Leftovers for the same benefit and only the minor drawback of not fucking with Trick users?

median fox
#

Me using there tera is essentially just going "imma die my way"

clear lichen
#

Brute Bonnet, Slither Wing, Iron Moth and Roaring Moon are probably the only Paradoxes worse than the original right?

#

(Roaring Moon is being directly compared to Mega Mence in this scenario)

median fox
#

Cant compare anything to a mega imo

clear lichen
#

Tbf, being worse than Mega Mence or Volcarona doesn't say much about your viability

#

Because it's fucking Mega Mence and Volcarona

median fox
#

And I don't think ive personallt seen ANY volcarona in a while

clear lichen
median fox
#

Nope
I see iron moth the most overall

clear lichen
#

But in Singles, Iron Moth is decent in OU, Slither Wing is like, RU

#

... And Volcarona is banned

#

So yeah not really close comparison at all

median fox
#

Volcarona normally doesnt have good typing for doubles
A few giga strong water types in doubles rn

#

Especially urshifu

#

And urshifu

#

Some urshifu to

#

Oh i forgot the hellish awful to play againsg end me now pokemon

Might know them

#

Urshifu

#

ive never in my life hated a pokemon more

#

I dknt even hate another pokemon period

clear lichen
#

There are a few Pokemon I hate

#

Not many though

#

I hate a lot of the babies on principal

#

Seriously

#

Why the FUCK

median fox
#

Theres 3
And all 3 are urshifu

clear lichen
#

Did they give WIGGLYTUFF

#

A NEW BABY FORM

median fox
#

Rapidstrike gets two spots

clear lichen
#

IT NEEDED A FUCKING EVO

#

???????

#

And the other thing I hate is Flutter Mane

median fox
#

Prolly same reason pichu exists

clear lichen
#

Flutter Mane frankly could go hang itself and I don't think anyone would miss it

median fox
#

Which is my 4th hated pokemon
Only non urshifu based mon

clear lichen
#

I wouldn't

median fox
#

I want more trick room setters that arent sitting ducks