pif-hoenn-discussion

[full bison]

The Pokemon world as far as we've seen is just our world with more fantastical elements to it, so I imagine the Pokemon world map would look a lot like ours except with a couple more crystals of gimmick enabling

[rancid nymph]

We really need an official world map

[silk cobalt]

I personally don't have a problem getting Beldum postgame.

Controversial take, I know.

If I had to think.....maybe you could get it in a 1% chance in the desert area, after the halfway point?

[outer matrix]

Will the trainer classes use the RSE designs or the ORAS ones?

[brittle wave]

If hoenn is in the sequel to the original IF, there is no doubt there are Legendary Pokemon (Hoenn) there, just like in the original games. We will make new fusions out of that. Or maybe perhaps we can keep the numbers the same as their previous counterparts from previous generations as we fuse them 😄 But still, it would be nice to catch these Legendary Pokemon in PIF Hoenn. They are different from their counterparts from previous generations 😄 They look different and they have different elements

[next flare]

No new legendaries have been announced, but we can be certain that all of the Hoenn legendaries (Regirock, Kyogre, etc.) will have encounters in the game. All Hoenn legendaries were previously added to PIF 1, so no new fusions will be needed specifically for those legends

[daring burrow]

cant wait for team magma making fusion groudon and heatmor for no reason

[rain locust]

freakdon

drought boosted fire lash going crazy

[quaint matrix]

So you're saying Kyogre and Durant will be fused by team Aqua...

[daring burrow]

heatmor

yeah water ant

[quaint matrix]

Hell yeah

[daring burrow]

if only we have wishiwashi

fused with kyogre

[quaint matrix]

Anteatereatingant in my Pokemon???

[daring burrow]

but then again i wonder if they will inroduced primal form

[outer matrix]

probably not since primals are technically megas

[daring burrow]

i mean they can separate with like necrozma

[outer matrix]

ultra necrozma requires a fusion to use it, while primals require their mega stones to use them

and no megas have ever been added to PIF

[full bison]

90 people total voted for the poll. Never expected to see that.

Guess it was the only thing some people could think about in regards to this channel in that odd 8-hour lull point

[daring burrow]

it could change but yeh

we can just get primal form by fusing 2 kyogre anyway

[clear lichen]

Tbf, Ultra Necrozma also requires a Z Crystal usually

Actually, I think it still does

Except the Z Crystal can't use the Z Move

Idk it's been a while

So I don't think needing a mega stone matters for this

[alpine rune]

I feel like the thing with step counts is that its unnecessarily tedious

I dont think its the money problem

500 per ticket is cheap

its just the fact that you have to go ALLL the way to a spot only to realize you only got a few tries

before it pulls you back

I guess it makes sense for the Surf tm and static volcarona as challenges, but when someones shiny hunting a pseudo for example, yeesh

[still jetty]

what if we could actually battle mr briney after beating the elite 4 and make his Peeko or wingull super overpowered like the dream Jirachi that would be funny LOL

[molten loom]

Actually the dream jirachi is perfectly normal strength, it just lowers your stats to its normal as well

[patent kayak]

Can we final download the game or not ?

[sturdy frost]

if you mean "can I download PIF:Hoenn?"
no.

6 months at minimum for a playable demo

[patent kayak]

What the heck

But ok

[sturdy frost]

it was just announced.
a game doesnt magically appear

[half needle]

im looking at the hoenn dex rn, i especially like breloom, spinda, seviper additions, tbf i cant remember if breloom was in the game or not but i like it anyway

[quaint matrix]

Breloom has been in the game for awhile

You're a colored role (spriter) I thought you'd already knew smh my head

[velvet root]

I always forget Scraggy and Minior are in

Weird cuz I really wanted Scraggy

[fair jewel]

I really hope Frog gives Chimecho a good HA. So many amazing fusions with it

[hexed agate]

You get Shroomish really early

Petalburg woods

[wide merlin]

the fire / water legendary pokémon can to be in PIF hoenn ?

[clear lichen]

If there's a non Boomburst user to give Boomburst, it's probably Chimecho

Give it Scrappy Boomburst or something silly like that

[wide merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/volcanion-anime-pokemon-hydro-pump-water-blast-gif-2074507674886832204

[clear lichen]

It's Chimecho, it won't be broken... without fusing

Heck, it probably has worse stats than the other Scrappy Boomburst mons anyways

But it's funny

You can also give it Psychic Surge

Though it'd be a bit weird to give Psychic Surge to a Pokemon who is usually completely unaffected by it

(Even if having Psychic Surge does make it affected by Psychic Terrain)

That said out of the Levitate HAless Psychic Types Latios should get Psychic Surge frfr

There's no bias here whatsoever

And this will definitely not be absurd

Surely

Anyways, what Abilities would you give the HAless Gen 3 mons?

In fact, what Abilities would you give any HAless mon in general?

(Excluding the drawback ability mons because they're meant to have a drawback. These are Golisopod, Archeops (who isn't in yet anyways), Regigigas and Slaking)

Also there's no rule against giving HAs to Pokemon that have signature abilities/legendaries

Though before you give Sturdy to Shedinja, judging based off how 1 HP is tied to Wonder Guard in Infinite Fusion, Sturdy Shedinja would have more than 1 HP and thus instantly die to any non Fighting or Normal attack

(Of course, it's usually tied to Shedinja directly anyways, so maybe it still is)

(I dunno)

Flygon apparently has Dry Skin in IF

Which is sad because I had 2 very fun ideas for it

(Sand Stream because the dex directly states it starts sandstorms and Tinted Lens because it has tinted lens by definition)

(I'm judging based off Pokeathalon rn)

[hexed agate]

Wow, no love for Exploud

Doing the exact same thing

Or Swellow

[clear lichen]

I'm sure Chimecho won't be stealing its job

It's a Chimecho

Surely it'll just be like idk

[hexed agate]

It's ultra based, but I wouldn't give it scrappy

[clear lichen]

Exploud but in lower tier or something

Idk

[hexed agate]

Exploud is Exploud in a lower tier

[clear lichen]

As in, lower tier than Exploud

Not lower tier period

Exploud is like what, RU or something in Gen 7?

And given the sheer power of a Scrappy STAB Boomburst, I imagine fusion brings it higher than that

That said Swellow does exist...

[hexed agate]

Probably

[clear lichen]

Wait Swellow can only pass its Flying type

Hah!

[hexed agate]

But I just think there's a better ability than scrappy for an innocent chime

[clear lichen]

L bozo

[rain locust]

https://tenor.com/view/quagsire-pokemon-wooper-huh-huhh-gif-10333941026352545707

[clear lichen]

But yeah probably Psychic Surge tbh idk

[hexed agate]

Porygon-Z/Swellow

[clear lichen]

Because like it needs something BIG

[rain locust]

boneless pz noivern

[hexed agate]

They gutted my boy

[rain locust]

use it in ndou its p good there

[clear lichen]

Trading the ability to hit Ghosts with STAB Boomburst for like 50% of your damage is surely a worth trade

[rain locust]

you just hit ghosts with adapt draco instead

[clear lichen]

Yeah what's the worst that could happen with halved damage output

[clear lichen]

OK but what if the Ghost is Fairy type

[hexed agate]

Give it Punk Rock

[clear lichen]

I have 0 clue if that's relevant or not

[rain locust]

U turn

[clear lichen]

Yeah it was never winning this argument

Swellow is fucking dead in a ditch

[hexed agate]

[clear lichen]

Yknow it passes both Guts Facade and Scrappy Boomburst

[hexed agate]

Sound move boost to bell dude is awesome

[clear lichen]

I'm sure it's playing mindgames somewhere in a lower tier

... Though, I'm pretty sure it hasn't been added yet and will be added from the Hoenn update

[hexed agate]

Anyways I want Bronzong

[clear lichen]

NatDex RU trust

Surely it'll do well in IF NatDex RU even though it does poorly in normal NatDex RU

[hexed agate]

It has usable offense and great speed

[clear lichen]

85/75? Usable in Gen 9? Yeah I wished

[hexed agate]

For fusions

[clear lichen]

Does have strong STABs in Guts Facade and Scrappy Boomburst at least

[clear lichen]

Yeah fair

Does IF NatDex RU though?

NatDex RU barely even exists in Gen 9

And Gen 9 is probably a lot more popular than IF competitively

[vast ledge]

Is belly drum espeed banned in smogon as that seems like iw would be op on a snorlax dragonite combo?

[hexed agate]

It's everything that's not UU

[clear lichen]

Or OU, or Ubers, or AG, but yeah

[clear lichen]

Linoone reportedly found dead in a ditch next to Swellow

[vast ledge]

but snorlax dragonite combo has multiscale

and insane bulk

[clear lichen]

OK, so?

Linoone is still dead in a ditch

That said, I think it was screwed either ways

Bro was gonna become jobless to like idk

Dragonair/Munchlax

In a lower tier

Or something

Idk

Actually, I think Dragonair only has Marvel Scale and not Multiscale

Let me check

Nice, it does have Marvel Scale

[vast ledge]

yep its marvel scale

whichis an awful ability

[clear lichen]

So in a theoretical lower tier where Bdrum Espeed is allowed

Linoone maybe isn't jobless!

But who are we kidding its gonna get eclipsed by some other Extreme Speed user+Belly Drum user combo

[vast ledge]

the other broken mon seems like it would be cloyster and landarous/ nidoking combo

[unique flame]

my hoendex only team that im spriting myself

2 guys left

[vast ledge]

sheer force life orb smell smash

or lapras nidoking/landarous

[clear lichen]

Isn't Beldum like postgame in Hoenn

[unique flame]

it is? i dont remember

if it is i have just 3 member again

[clear lichen]

Yeah, post HoF in both RS and Emerald

Post Delta Episode in ORAS

[vast ledge]

yeah metagross is annoying to get

[unique flame]

ok back to 3 members

[vast ledge]

but you can have a good playthrough with him in black and white

[clear lichen]

And yet it still has relatively early evolution levels

Bro is earlier game than Zweillous and Drakloak 💀

[vast ledge]

black and white it is in kyurem area

I hate how they made zweillous evolution so high

you can easily get dragpult before e4

[clear lichen]

Hey, on the bright side

Dragapult is at least the 2nd best Pseudo Legendary

So it having the 2nd highest evo level of all makes sense

[vast ledge]

I don't like dragpult that much without an reliable ghost physical move

[clear lichen]

And yet it's still better than every Pseudo Legendary before it

Built different

[vast ledge]

it reminds me of gyrhados

and dragonite

[clear lichen]

Except Gyarados was not once a top tier OU Pokemon if I remember correctly

[quaint matrix]

I got it

Adaptability

[vast ledge]

I heard it was pretty good with its dragon dance moxie sets

[clear lichen]

Dragonite though is 3rd, arguable as 2nd

[vast ledge]

or its flinch para strats

[quaint matrix]

I think at least in the actual games if Chimecho has Adaptability it'd go really hard in Smogon PU

[clear lichen]

Compared to other Pseudos, I mean

Also I am not taking any of the Megas into consideration

Otherwise Mega Salamence and Metagross are gonna arrive and fuck over the rankings, Mega Ttar also makes a sizeable dent if we consider its recent impact on NatDex and I struggle to rank Mega Garchomp because it's so heavily outclassed by Garchomp I can't accurately gauge what tier it'd be

[vast ledge]

I find it so funny mega grachomp is worse than regular garchomp

[clear lichen]

Maybe if it could hold specifically Loaded Dice for Scale Shot

Or if Garchomp got Dragon Dance

Then maybe its lower speed won't matter as much anymore because of its higher damage

Just maybe

I mean after a boost not much is outspeeding either

Surely the few things that do aren't relevant enough right?

[vast ledge]

if you want damage run a life orb or choice band set

[clear lichen]

looks at every single high tier Paradox Pokemon

[vast ledge]

I love how balanced mons like fluttermane are

[clear lichen]

Look on the bright side though, they will all outspeed Garchomp as well!

And maybe the higher bulk allows Mega Chomp to tank things base Chomp doesnt

Though uhh

Let's check the list

[vast ledge]

sun boosted choice spec fluttermane and chi yu in vgc are litteral nukes

[clear lichen]

• Iron Valiant
• Iron Bundle
• Roaring Moon
• Flutter Mane
• Walking Wake

God fucking damn it

At least they outspeed and uhh

They do OHKO Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt, right?

[vast ledge]

entei is really good to you get sun damage boost plus proto boost

with an free item

[clear lichen]

Well they also probably both tank Iron Boulder

And Moth

And Treads

And they outspeed Crown and Hands

Though uhh

Hands is a bulky motherfucker

I would not be surprised if they couldn't OHKO it

[vast ledge]

hands has the best stat spread in the game

he will be a nightmare when tapu koko returns

and he has a useable ability

[clear lichen]

I mean most of these guys run Booster Energy in Singles

Not Hands though, afaik

Bro's ability has the effect of getting banned from UU as many times as possible or something

Idk

[vast ledge]

you need assault vest for the perfect bulk

[clear lichen]

More bans from UU in 1 Generation than most if not all have in their lifetime

I also note RM usually runs Proto Attack in Singles

However it also usually runs Dragon Dance in Singles

[vast ledge]

yeah roaring moon dragon dance is incredibly hard to check

with proto boost

[clear lichen]

Though with the topic being who can outspeed and OHKO an already setup Garchomp/Mega Garchomp

Which got DD in idk

Generation 11

Or something

[vast ledge]

they removed dragon dance from garchomp

[clear lichen]

DD won't matter for this

[vast ledge]

he used to have it

[clear lichen]

And Roaring Moon will get outsped

[clear lichen]

Nope

It just never had DD

[vast ledge]

In gen 5 I remeber using a dragon dance garchomp

gen 4

to sweep e4

[clear lichen]

You can check Smogon and see it just can't get Dragon Dance

[vast ledge]

in old gens

[clear lichen]

Yeah I'm checking the NatDex moveset rn

Not there

And it has Fissure Machamp

Who stopped existing when Machamp got No Guard

[vast ledge]

maybe I remembered wron

[clear lichen]

Anyways, Mega Garchomp might be able to tank Iron Valiant Moonblast

[vast ledge]

its bulk increase is barely noticeable

[clear lichen]

Good news! Mega Garchomp tanks 93.7% of the time!

And base Garchomp only tanks 47.5% of the time

Unless it is Specs

[vast ledge]

I would still rather have base 100 plus speed

[clear lichen]

But Specs would get outsped after 1 theoretical Dragon Dance

[vast ledge]

10 speical defense and 20 somethign defense is not worth it

[clear lichen]

A theoretical +1 Mega Garchomp outspeeds a Scarf Lando-T

That's also nice

That's one of the most relevant Scarfers I could think of

Neither are tanking Iron Bundle or Walking Wake lmfao

I mean I guess Bundle usually runs HDB

But it also usually runs Substitute

So jokes on you

[vast ledge]

bundle also has encore to

[clear lichen]

It used Substitute and KOd your weakened check you sent in

And now you're forced to send in your slower Mega/Normal Garchomp

And you're cooked

I guess that's on whoever is running Garchomp in the same tier as Iron Bundle

[vast ledge]

garchomps days are behidn it

[clear lichen]

Nah, even forgetting it's struggling in OU now

Bundle is in Ubers

It isn't good in Ubers

But it's there

[vast ledge]

its just their for rock helmet and rough skin

[clear lichen]

And it'd be a fool's errand to try to bring a Garchomp there

[vast ledge]

not for its sweeping

[clear lichen]

I also forgot Crown is fast as shit

Well, not that fast

But like

Idk when I look at Crown I expect like

70+ base speed

But no it's at 98, outspeeding Mega Garchomp but not base Garchomp

So uhh

Shit

[vast ledge]

its base 98 speed with choice scarf if you go proto speed

its pretty nasty in vgc with expanding force

[clear lichen]

Tbf, Cobalion itself has even higher speed at 108

And Iron Crown's signature move is literally blades of light

So maybe I should've expected it to be fast lmao

[vast ledge]

coballion has a pretty useless ability

[clear lichen]

Hey, at least it can attack physically

[vast ledge]

atleast its not virizion

[clear lichen]

I mean yeah that too

But in context of ability

At least it isn't fucking Keldeo

Who's a full blown special attacker

And can't use Justified for shit

[vast ledge]

that reminds me of empoleon

[clear lichen]

Cobalion is actually better than Keldeo now but it's almost definitely nothing to do with the Abilities tbf

[vast ledge]

but gf changed it

so they might change keldeo

[clear lichen]

Cobalion simply coped with Powercreep better

[vast ledge]

steel fighting is top 10 typing thats why

best fighting dual type

[clear lichen]

Definitely the best Fighting dual type defensively yeah

But there's a definite argument for Ghost/Fighting IMO

[vast ledge]

yeah true

[clear lichen]

Me when a grand total of 1 evolutionary line resists my STABs

[vast ledge]

both are top 10 dual types

[clear lichen]

Marshadow's making fucking 125 Attack not just work, but excel in Ubers

And it's quite obvious why

[vast ledge]

because of spectral thief

[clear lichen]

I was gonna say that amazing typing

But yeah Spectral Thief is great too

That said, it sometimes runs Poltergeist instead

Because even with unresisted STAB

125 Attack is still low for Ubers standards

[vast ledge]

to be fair even quagsire and skele dirge were in ubers

[clear lichen]

I mean, there are good Pokemon with similarly low offences

But they're either defensive like Origin Giratina

Or they have a damage boosting ability

The Gen 6 and 9 box art legendaries for example

Koraidon and Miraidon have effective 197 Attack and SpA

[vast ledge]

thats with max attack investment right?

and nature

[clear lichen]

At least, I'm pretty sure it's the same boost as Beads of Ruin

[vast ledge]

its an lfie orb boost

[clear lichen]

Beads of Ruin is technically a decrease on the opponent but you get what I mean

[vast ledge]

more than beads of ruin

25 vs 30

[clear lichen]

Chi-Yu reduces SpD to 3/4

Which boosts its damage by 4/3, no?

[vast ledge]

your right

so little less than beads of ruin

[clear lichen]

Hadron Engine and Orichalcum Pulse also boost by roughly 33% according to Bulbapedia

[vast ledge]

oh strange its also 33 percent

[clear lichen]

Chi-Yu hits harder due to stronger STAB and stronger boost

But it's also slower

Lacks pivoting

And is frailer

[vast ledge]

yeah chi yu is more of a doubles mon than a singles one

[clear lichen]

Also, for Koraidon and Chi-Yu, Sun is not as easy to keep up because Kyogre exists

But nothing in Ubers (AG now, I guess) contests Electric Terrain

[vast ledge]

but kyogre does not want to come in on koraidon

[clear lichen]

It doesn't, that's true

But it can be cleared

By a common Pokemon

[vast ledge]

koraidon is one of the best kyogre counters

[clear lichen]

Yeah, unfortunately for Kyogre the same thing that applied for Koraidon applies for it too

I reckon Kyogre threatens Koraidon hard with Ice Beam, but certainly not its STABs

Unlike Koraidon

[vast ledge]

yeah but koraidon outspeeds it

[clear lichen]

Does Specs Ice Beam OHKO?

Normal Ice Beam probably doesn't

[vast ledge]

doubt it koraidon is bulky

100 115 100

[clear lichen]

Yeah, though it's not much specially bulkier than Kyogre is physically (albeit far faster)

Me when my finger fails to complete my brain's sentence:

[vast ledge]

it kos with no bulk

[clear lichen]

Good thing Koraidon doesn't run bulk in Ubers last I checked

[vast ledge]

but you need modest nature

plus specs kyogre is not that good

[clear lichen]

Never thought I'd hear that sentence but looking at Smogon, it is its lowest listed set

[vast ledge]

its to slow

[clear lichen]

At least it's listed I suppose?

[vast ledge]

it needs scarf or av

or in doubles tailwind

[clear lichen]

Hey, it could be worse

Kyogre itself is still considered top tier in Singles

Faring better with Gen 9 than Groudon is

[vast ledge]

but gen 9 really hit kyogre hard

would rather used something caly shadow

[clear lichen]

Went from S- to A+ so unless youre talking about VGC then thankfully not

I'm not a VGC follower though

[vast ledge]

in vgc kyogre is not that good

especially in reg i

[clear lichen]

The one thing VGC and Singles share

That big headed king I hate

[vast ledge]

I mean caly shadow does kyogre's job but with crazy speed and little less damage

[clear lichen]

Balance was definitely considered when making Caly-S

And definitely when it was sent into Gen 9

[vast ledge]

it does have one of the worst typings in the game

[clear lichen]

Yup mmhmm

[clear lichen]

True

[vast ledge]

imagine if calyrex was a normal type

it easily could have been

would have been worse than zacian and primal rayquaza

[clear lichen]

Idk, I don't think so

[vast ledge]

calyrex looks pretty normal to me

[clear lichen]

Calyrex explicitly has Psychic powers and is called "King of bountiful harvests"

It was always gonna be Grass/Psychic, bringing one of the 2 types for the rider forms

[vast ledge]

I guess

with the lore

but just visually it looks like an normal type

[clear lichen]

Ig Grass/Ghost "hits" Dark types

[vast ledge]

kind of like smeargol

[clear lichen]

Except the popular Ubers grass types are like

Yveltal in Gen 8

Kingambit in Gen 9

Both resist Grass

... Hits Arceus, I guess?

[vast ledge]

better than 2 4 times weaknesses

[clear lichen]

Idk, becomes worse vs Eternatus and Ho-Oh

[vast ledge]

ruins its almost 100 100 100 bulk

[clear lichen]

Which ig for VGC, whatever

For Singles that's the current 2nd best Uber and another fantastic Uber

[vast ledge]

how is caly shadow not banned without yveltal?

[clear lichen]

It is

So I should look at AG

[vast ledge]

oh ok

[clear lichen]

Wait rq

[vast ledge]

I don't play ubers

[clear lichen]

Alright

3rd best in AG, and fantastic Pokemon

Take 1 guess as to who's 1st now

[vast ledge]

miraidon

[clear lichen]

What? No, that's Calyrex

Miraidon actually fares worse than 6 other Pokemon here

And number 6 is probably a big reason why

[vast ledge]

is it zacian

[clear lichen]

So is N5 now that I'm looking at it

And somewhat 4

And 2

And 1

[vast ledge]

how is miraidon not number 1

[clear lichen]

(Ting-Lu, Arceus Fairy, Arceus Normal who I rationalised keeps Miraidon in check with Espeed somewhat, Koraidon who runs Scarf a lot more than Miraidon does and Calyrex who's just Calyrex)

[vast ledge]

but miraidon gets coverage

to hit its checks

[clear lichen]

Calyrex was banned Day 1

That's all I'm gonna say

[vast ledge]

I am wondering how good is caly ice in ubers

[clear lichen]

The meta does not fare well against Calyrex without Yveltal, much less when it can spontaneously switch types

Caly-I is ranked B+ in both AG and Ubers iirc

Nvm, A- in Ubers

I think B+ was before the Miraidon ban?

Honestly can't remember

[vast ledge]

Imagine if infinite fusion gives use calyrex shadow

imagine it with blissey

[clear lichen]

At least head fusions won't be as bad

[vast ledge]

arceus caly shadow fusion would be game breaking though

caly shadow as ghost normal with perfect coverage

[clear lichen]

Loses to Shedinja, except for the part where you Leech Seed

AGBL at best

[vast ledge]

willow wisp as well

Wisp is a good move on caly shaodw

thinking about it though imagin arceus fusion with lunala

it would be so bulky

and also gets photon geiser

moongeist beam*

[merry tundra]

Is the Hoenn section going to be its own seperate game or all part of the same game?

[full bison]

Separate game

Not enough map space to add hoenn to the current game

[spice sage]

It's a design choice more than a technical limitation, but yes it's a full second game;)

[still jetty]

oh thats fun knowledge

[full bison]

I'm aware, just explaining that Hoenn couldn't be added to the current game as it stands

[spice sage]

It probably could tbf but it would be a lot more limiting for what I can do with it and would probably make the already long postgame drag on too long

[prime dust]

I've said it before, it is possible to expand the rpg maker map limit, but it add coding complications

[full bison]

Thinking about it more, yeah, a game where you go through every single region the way some fans seem intent on getting would be dull AF. The gameplay loop of just gathering badges over and over is not something that can sustain a super super long game

[prime dust]

i'm aware of some fan games that have more than 2 regions, they are mostly mmos

not sure how balancing is handled in that aspect

[full bison]

I can kinda see it working for an MMO. Those usually have some form of emergent gameplay that develop within, so that could keep it a bit more fresh

[hexed agate]

The way the only official game to have 2 regions handles it is by having most of the battles be underleveled :P

[weak trellis]

and said second region is a postgame bonus rather than a maingame addition

actually I think technically the only main series game that does have more than two maingame regions is gen 9 with the kitikami DLC

(gen 8 too but isle of armor isn't counted as a separate region despite being one in terms of gameplay)

but both of those are heavily truanced

[vagrant ferry]

You could cut exp gains in half across both regions, and then scale npc levels accordingly so that the highest levels in the 2nd region match what the highest levels are in a normal game

[weak trellis]

"variable levels"

Game Freak retches in disgust*

[hexed agate]

More grinding is not the answer

Nothing like beating 16 gyms, 2 E4 and 2 Champions with my Larvesta, Deino, Pawniard, Vullaby, Dragonair and Pupitar

Post-game goes hard, trust

[vagrant ferry]

It wouldn’t mandate more grinding

[hexed agate]

A lot of Pokemon wouldn't even evolve in the 1st region

If you cut the exp yield in half?

[vagrant ferry]

that’s true

extra challenge xd

[hexed agate]

Ivysaur HoF 🔥

[full musk]

Then there's Fire Ash which just resets the level cap every region.

[full bison]

I feel like cutting the exp yield in half and adjusting the levels of every boss to compensate just adds on to my point about how tedious it would be

[full bison]

Taking longer to get stronger takes a lot of the enjoyment out of RPGs

[vagrant ferry]

what are the alternatives if you have a 2nd region

[hexed agate]

You mean Gen 5's biggest downfall?

[hexed agate]

Look at HGSS, it pulled it off and still suffers from it

[full musk]

Anyways looking forward to seeing what they do with the story of Hoenn. I can totally see a version of that one cutscene in Emerald where Rayquaza comes down to calm down Groudon and Kyogre but someone throws a triple fusion device between the three.

[vagrant ferry]

There’s no elite four in the 2nd region tho

[trail hull]

honestly the only way I see that possible without being too boring is with a regional pc

like that way you can have a smoother level curve and you can only get your pokemons back until after beatign the "final boss" of the region which would unlock global pc

[prime dust]

not in the technical sense, but the E4 gets upgraded to compensate the change of 8 more badges

[rancid nymph]

Lore wise, I think the Johto E4 also serves as the Kanto E4

[silk cobalt]

god. with black and white on's level-exp thing, grinding for higher levels is a nightmare.

I noticed on my nuzlocke that since the wild pokemon can be like 15 levels lower, you just...can't level up to win in any good time.

[silk cobalt]

Kanto and Johto serve as part of the Indigo League, so yes.

[autumn grail]

My ony request is to not have Juan

[hushed axle]

But he’s the Juan and only

[autumn grail]

Mainly because we don't need that Rest, Double Team Kingdra

[inland jewel]

I think Frog stated the champion was still Steven

[autumn grail]

Thank god...

[tacit saddle]

Steven my babygirl forever

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/johny-gif-27696534

[chrome heron]

Wallace should be the champion for rematches

[outer matrix]

?

[autumn grail]

He means will Characters like Flannery look like this?

Or this?

And that's just one example

[inland jewel]

The BW sprites probably from the world tour

Since that’s what Infinite Fusions uses

[outer matrix]

Honestly that makes sense for the gym leaders and all

But some npc trainer classes have different designs between RSE and ORAS (and additionally, some aren't in BW at all)

[full bison]

Most notably everyone in teams Aqua and Magma, hence that spriting contest that keeps getting advertised

Something I just thought about: will we be getting the Sunken Ship, or Sea Mauville? Cause that's a pretty huge disparity between RSE and ORAS

Leaning towards Sunken Ship cause Sea Mauville was mostly made to tie into the lore of Mega Evolution and Infinity Energy

[rare sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/gladion-get-out-pokemon-sun-and-moon-pokemon-gif-5319568862467731203

[quaint matrix]

Man Flannery is so fine

I knwo that's not really what the topic was but man

[craggy nexus]

probably a expanded version of the sunken ship

[hazy fable]

🤨

[craggy nexus]

like timmy said depends on how the contest im running goes if frogman like sthe results we migth run a contest fro every named npc to get them our own redesign if not is just gonna be gen 5

[weak trellis]

I misread that and was wondering about the in-game contests lmao

[autumn grail]

I was just clarifying someone else’s question

[molten loom]

(For now at least)

[molten loom]

Juan will be in

[full bison]

I'm imagining Juan will be a bonus boss, maybe for a quest, and Wallace will have a champion level team at some point in the postgame like he did in ORAS

[craggy nexus]

Honestly between Wallace and Steven i rather have Steven being the champ

[molten loom]

But why not both

I think a double battle for champ would be cooler than just picking one

[molten loom]

And more annoying for solo runs

[craggy nexus]

Wonder if it would be to hard to have it be like in sun/moon the first time u beat the league is Steven the next is Wallace, and each time after that u get a random npc from a list

[full bison]

The question then is if we're doing the SuMo title defense gimmick, what other characters would challenge you for the title besides Steven and Wallace? Wally and Zinnia are easy enough answers, but that's still only four characters when SuMo had noticeably more than that

[craggy nexus]

Literally every other gym leader cause why not, archie and maxie, May/Brandon, Juan

Also frogman included tons of characters outside of kanto and jhoto in the first game theres no reason not to have characters from other gens appear for title defence

[clear lichen]

Can't wait for Cynthia to get added then to have 50% of the messages about PIF Hoenn be about her

[molten loom]

Hmm just had a thought, what if another thing of the games being connected by save or whatever, what if after e4 or postgame you could find red/leaf from your pif save, with the team you had and the same outfit/hair

[craggy nexus]

I think its posible there would need to be a fail safe of giving him a base team if the other game hasnt beaten the league

[full bison]

We do have something of an outline of what to give them in the form of Red's Mount Silver team. Shouldn't be that hard to add fusions onto it. The fossils give you 3 fusions already, just need 3 more

[molten loom]

Or just don't have them show up if the save from pif hasn't beat e4 or postgame

[full bison]

He even has Lapras in HGSS and Espeon in GSC, so that's another fusion down with 2 left

[molten loom]

It would be very funny to face some of my dumb runs

[full bison]

"behold, your final challenge... A Sunkern."

[craggy nexus]

Going by golds team in the first game i think it would be the starters/the legendary birds, Pikachu/espeon, snorlax/lapras, i don't know for the last probably mew/Mewtwo

[molten loom]

This Sunkern killed god, or was it necrozma/luzray at that point and not Arceus/luxray

Honestly can't remember

Seeing bill would also be very funny

And of course gastly with cat ears

[craggy nexus]

We should sent both ideas in case frogman doesnt read this

[molten loom]

Also it would mess with the people that use shedinja cheese

[full bison]

Having to fight my Lightning Rod Electrify Raicott sounds like it would be horrifying

[grave jolt]

Can't wait to fight 1 Tauros (with perfect IVs and EVs)

[full bison]

That rain team in general is pretty insane, actually. The combination of Always Accurate Hurricane and Thunder from Noivern/Jolteon and constantly healing Earthquake spamming Shift Gear Flygon/Klinklang dealt with pretty much everything super easily

[grave jolt]

Correction, Taurking

[craggy nexus]

Rajang

[inland jewel]

To be fair the Ai will almost never click on set up moves so then using shift gear would be low

[molten loom]

Now would the AI be able to use it properly

No

[inland jewel]

I really hope frogman updates the battle Ai

[grave jolt]

I have teams that can be systematically dismantled, then I have this

[molten loom]

No idea how I would deal with this team

[grave jolt]

1 rock

[craggy nexus]

Theres not that much that can be done

[molten loom]

Expert trainers tried that, it failed

[full bison]

Just imagine having to weather Adaptability Boomburst, and Serene Grace Discharge Air Slash, and Huge Power shenanigans on the same team

[inland jewel]

To be fair, there are ways for enhanced Ai. I just can’t mention them

[grave jolt]

Idk how AI even works in IF, I just plan as if every trainer could use any move listed in their learnset until I learn all 4 of their pokemons moves

[molten loom]

Mainly because I don't remember anything about their moves

[inland jewel]

Learnset a for trainers is always the 4 moves closest to their level unless it’s specified (like they are in Remix and Expert)

[molten loom]

These might be fun to fight

[grave jolt]

That's useful information 👍

[inland jewel]

So a level 10 butterfree fusion will have confusion, but a level 40 butterfree fusion will have hurricane

[full bison]

For best results, have Penny's battle theme play on a tab in the background while fighting these

[grave jolt]

Can't wait to get bodied as actual walrein by my current fake walrein 😅

[warm skiff]

can i suggest a horrible challenge run?

[craggy nexus]

I mean calling it ai is kinda wrong as it never learns is more a decisión tree, it sees what damaging move would deal the most or if it needs to heal or if it has a status or several thinks

[molten loom]

Sure

[warm skiff]

awful abilities run with fusions
regigigas can not escape slow start

[molten loom]

Probably not that bad thinking about it

I've probably done worse

[full bison]

Been waiting for Delcatty and Archeops to get added before doing a run like that

[warm skiff]

I have two fusions based on just the fact that they're good mons with one thing that ruins them (horrible ability and awful moveset)

[molten loom]

Yeah it's just A

[inland jewel]

To be fair though Delcatty has skill swap so just fuse it with a ghost type and just become immune

[craggy nexus]

Something that really should be checked is the status checks since npcs with Mons with tóxic orb poison heal span full restores

[full bison]

Aah, fond memories of fighting the E4 with a sandstorm team, watching them run screaming for the Full restores after mere sandstorm chip damage. Fun times.

[molten loom]

So, truant, slow start, klutz, stall, and what else is considered bad

[warm skiff]

normalize?

[molten loom]

So that's 5

[full bison]

Emergency Exit

[molten loom]

Right forgot about that one

[full bison]

Hustle could count too, but it's more of a double edged sword

[grave jolt]

Defeatist (once Archen line gets in) and Weak Armor also only have negative effects

[full bison]

Weak Armor is a double edged sword too

Speed boosts are nice to have

[grave jolt]

Oh dang I missed the speed change

[molten loom]

What about a run where decent abilities are used poorly, like a wonder guard fusion that maximizes the amount of weaknesses

[quaint matrix]

Ghost/Rock Wonder Guard

[grave jolt]

shedinja/j

[quaint matrix]

Oh Bug/Grass Wonder Guard

[molten loom]

Or bug/psychic

Huge power Chansey body

[grave jolt]

Levitate Flying type

Poison Heal steel type

[molten loom]

Or blissey

[full bison]

Sand Stream Ttar but it uses the Dark type body and isn't fused with any Rock, Steel, or Ground types

[grave jolt]

Speed Boost Shuckle

[molten loom]

And then you swap in the Shedinja fusion

[full bison]

Just thought of an extra funny one: Damp Electrode with Explosion. Damp prevents all explosions, even ones the Damp Pokemon tries to instigate

[warm skiff]

no guard with 100% accurate moves

[grave jolt]

Give it Self destruct too

He's gonna come out, then use Self Destruct, then use Explosion, then be recalled

[full bison]

Bizarro Electrmuku: instead of always self-destructing, it can't self-destruct no matter how hard it tries

[molten loom]

This is such a dumb run, I might do it

[molten loom]

No guard but I use mankey paw

[grave jolt]

No Guard, Monkey Paw, OHKO moves only

[craggy nexus]

Better one no guard but only 2 turn moves fly, dig and dive

[molten loom]

Mankey paw + hustle, I can't hit anything

[grave jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/jevil-sad-deltarune-gif-24247560

Honestly I can't wait for the spheal and Aron line fusions

[full bison]

Aron does not get enough credit in the cuteness department

[molten loom]

https://tenor.com/view/aron-lairon-aggron-steel-pokemon-gif-7583682

Some interesting options when searching for that gif

[grave jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/aggron-pokemon-gif-10987915

[junior tiger]

Already exists

And

[junior tiger]

Corrosion makes this not entirely pointless

[rain locust]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-pacman-speechbubble-above-gif-26156649

[full bison]

Corrosion isn't even in the game yet cause Salazzle hasn't been added and Glimmora is Gen 9

[quaint matrix]

I can't believe Salazzle is still missing

Corrosion is just such a funny ability

It's like how I can't believe Draco Meteor just keeps not being around for some reason

[knotty sluice]

will there be more gen 5 and gen 6 mons

also gen 4 too

[chrome heron]

Doesn't one of the remix teams have draco meteor on the enemy side?

[hexed agate]

I can

When we did the Non-IF tournament last year, Salazzle pretty immediately broke rule 2

[fair jewel]

That's not at all surprising lol

This is why we need Tsareena

[hexed agate]

Who has also gotten rule 2:'d

[velvet root]

Thats more a people problem to be fair
But I see the problem with adding mons like Salazzle or Tsareena

[hexed agate]

Yeah, sadly we deal in people here

[junior tiger]

But we have Gardevoir and Miltank already, so clearly Rule 2 wasn't that much of an impediment

[hexed agate]

Gen 1 and 2 were added in its entirety, Gardevoir is vastly more popular than the other 2, and all of this when the server was humongously tiny compared to the size it is today

The line for Miltank sprites never grows, only shrinks

And we occasionally have to remind people Gardevoir is not human

[quaint matrix]

It just feels wasted to not want to add mons just because some people can't resist gooning to mons

Especially with Garde it doesn't matter how popular it is it's like the progenitor of all of that

[hexed agate]

I never said it was the reason, it's a reason

[quaint matrix]

Either way it shouldn't be an impediment to getting it added is my point

I say this as someone who preferred getting Furfrou too lmao

[hexed agate]

There are other factors though

[quaint matrix]

Fur Coat would go so fucking nuts on so many mons

[hexed agate]

Frog always thinks out his encounters and where they could possibly fit

[quaint matrix]

There's only so many ways you can make a special event out of a new mon getting added

[hexed agate]

And at for the moment in PIFH, he seems to be going pretty vanilla with it

[quaint matrix]

For the Hoenn mons that will be added soon for the original game specifically I think the easiest way is just a mini-Hoenn map or something

[hexed agate]

Not necessarily a special event kind of thing, just where it'd fit in a region and whatnot

[quaint matrix]

Pretty sure there are some anime-only islands one can make and drop the Hoenn mons in

[hexed agate]

They're not going to be in original PIF though :P

[quaint matrix]

I thought they're going to be

[hexed agate]

Not catchable, at least

[quaint matrix]

Just randomizer-exclusive or whatever

[hexed agate]

Transferrable

The idea is to have Pokémon transferable between the 2 games

[hexed agate]

Maybe, idk

[quaint matrix]

GameFreak if they are epic:

The infrastructure's gonna be funky to work with I imagine

[hexed agate]

[quaint matrix]

No you mean

[hexed agate]

No, I mean

[quaint matrix]

Damn Quagsire hater over here...

[hexed agate]

[junior tiger]

We know there's an active volcano and a desert in Hoenn so Salandit and Salazzle would be easy to plop in, if that's an issue.
I do love the creative and unique ways that Pokémon not already in the region are added in PIF, so I'm excited to see any additions in PIF2 as well.

[hexed agate]

It's not just that, it's also ||Frog's love for the pokemon ||

[hexed agate]

That is to say, there are a lot of criteria, quantifiable currently and otherwise

[hexed agate]

automod diff

the greatest pain is being a long-time lover of the gardevoir design and having to cope with the fact everyone else that has it as their fave is super weird and weirder about it

[shy widget]

oh lmao that works

didn't realise that would raise issues but also 10000000% fair and valid and based

[full bison]

I'm a Vaporeon fan so I sympathize with that

[hexed agate]

I don't care for Gardevoir lol

never understood the non-rule 2 hype

[trail hull]

While it would be easy, at first the game might be in classic mode so mostly og hoenn mons

As for the addition criteria, to my knowledge it’s a bit of frog’s preference and if they think it would be a good addition to the game

[junior tiger]

I know that unique Ability and move candidates are good options, since they lead to more fusion stuff to spread those around. Corrosion is certainly a very unique Ability

[trail hull]

Oh salazzle has a unique ability ?

[hexed agate]

also the typing

[junior tiger]

That's usually not as big of a deal since you can accomplish that via fusion

[hexed agate]

it's a big deal because it brings fusion potential, and is a certified fairy killer as a head

with good speed

[junior tiger]

Corrosion, yes.
It was a Signature Ability until the release of Glimmora (Hidden Ability)

[hexed agate]

Fire head with ok SpAtk and Corrosion means you can build it to punish any fairy while resisting them

it's Poison/Fire

still good, but not as good

[clear lichen]

OK, but Corrosion's definitely more of a defensive ability, and Salazzle is frail as heck

[hexed agate]

this is an option though, since it is a good "fixer" pokemon (pokemon that has good donor stats to fix a few buddies)

[clear lichen]

If Corrosion like

Made Poison be SE or even just hit Steel and Poison for neutral

Instead of just allowing the user to Poison them

Then that'd be pretty cool

Though for Salazzle the former wouldn't be too great even then

Main thing is just hitting Heatran

[trail hull]

With hoenn having so much water there’s a big possibility we get every remaining water types

[clear lichen]

Which Water types aren't in?

I can think of Floatzel and Basculin

The former because Swift Swim

[hexed agate]

[clear lichen]

The latter because it shits on lower tiers and that's hilarious

[hexed agate]

Alomomola isn't in, Lumineon, Panpour, the water starters

Clawitzer

Skrelp

Wishiwashi

[clear lichen]

Adding Alomomola when this is Gen 3, Luvdisc's generation, is kinda disrespectful

[trail hull]

Yeah lots of water type

[hexed agate]

off the top of my head

[clear lichen]

I doubt that'd happen

Like idk put Luvdisc in extreme early game

Maybe it'll do something there

[hexed agate]

Manaphy is another one that's missing

Tapu Fini

[clear lichen]

Also wouldn't make sense

[hexed agate]

it would if we got the temple

[clear lichen]

Given Volbeat will be introduced here

[hexed agate]

Rangers FTW

[clear lichen]

We don't want to instantly nullify every single reason to use Volbeat instantly, do we?

[trail hull]

We would

[hexed agate]

you could say that about a lot of IF pokemon, using that argument

[clear lichen]

Volbover

[trail hull]

Like frog does whatever he wants and then staff influence a bit

[clear lichen]

K but seriously it has a singular reason to use Volbeat ever

And that's Tail Glow

Adding Manaphy at the same time as Volbeat is just downright disrespectful

[hexed agate]

the design is also a reason, as well as accessibility in game

[trail hull]

I don’t think respectful is a reason but I know fusion potential is a reason

Like frog didn’t like slurpuff but they added it because it has a good fusion potential

[clear lichen]

Accessibility is a good point, at the same time though I feel like only 35% of the people here actually like Volbeat

[hexed agate]

I doubt we'd get it right away, but this is a better region to fit in Manaphy than Sinnoh was

[clear lichen]

Tbf that's higher than in most other places

[trail hull]

On the other hand they like binacle line and it’s not in

[hexed agate]

at least using the lore surrounding the damn water egg

[clear lichen]

Usually it's like

10%? 15%

[trail hull]

Yeah

[clear lichen]

Anyways uhh yeah

[hexed agate]

I mean, people will use it if they like those pokemon

[clear lichen]

They will

[hexed agate]

I ran a Parasect/Primeape in one of my runs

it was awful, but I loved it

[clear lichen]

Tbf Parasect give 1 thing that's good

AKA Spore

[hexed agate]

gl living to get it off

[clear lichen]

(Also both its types pair extremely well with Steel)

[hexed agate]

we're also missing Keldeo

Volcanion

Araquanid

Carracosta

[trail hull]

Hoenn is perfect to add all of them (except the legendaries maybe)

[clear lichen]

Isn't Water the most common type already even without these?

[hexed agate]

Gastrodon my beloved

[clear lichen]

Crazy just how common the Water type is

[silk cobalt]

7.8 too much water

[hexed agate]

Water is very common

[clear lichen]

(And that it's a top 3 type regardless)

[full bison]

Breaking the game with Araquanid would be so fun

[clear lichen]

I LOVE WATER BUBBLE

[hexed agate]

we're only missing around 8 dragons total

[clear lichen]

And they're still easily outnumbered

[hexed agate]

well yeah

[clear lichen]

Dragon is inherently very rare

[hexed agate]

Fighting is close to the bottom percentually

as was bug

[clear lichen]

And Water is like, the most common type in the game

[hexed agate]

but Hoenn bumped them a bit

[trail hull]

It would infuriate a lot of people but I want a new mon batch with just water types

[prime dust]

only if we get to deprive frog of his fish joke

[hexed agate]

I have an idea for Fishmas that I hope Frog is considering

[full bison]

Imagine we get Drampa added and it just has a quest where we catch it in the middle of its typical arson routine

[clear lichen]

Is Jellicent in the game yet?

[trail hull]

No

[clear lichen]

Ok

[trail hull]

Looking forward to it

[hexed agate]

Seismitoad is another we're missing

[trail hull]

Also technically we currently have fishmas for the hoenn mons because 565 (aka the last number) is relicanth

[full bison]

"I have decided to add another Pokemon for PIF Hoenn. It's Basculin. Nothing else is getting added. See you next update!"

[trail hull]

I think the next fishmas addition could be basculin , a diet magikarp that can’t evolve is perfect

Oh lol we posted at the same time

[clear lichen]

• Floatzel line
• Gastrodon line
• Lumineon line
• Manaphy
• Phione
• Samurott line
• Simipour line
• Seismitoad line
• Basculin
• Alomomola
• Clawitzer line
• Wishiwashi
• Carracosta line
• Swanna line
• Jellicent line
• Keldeo
• Primarina line
• Araquanid line
• Tapu Fini
• Washtom
• Barbaracle line
• Skrelp
• Volcanion

Is that right?

[full bison]

I'm genuinely curious if there's something that Wishiwashi could be fused with that could make the Schooling gimmick not a headache to work with

[clear lichen]

Probably some Bird Pokemon

[trail hull]

We need a list or even a tier list maker of the remaining mon to get added to the game

[clear lichen]

We already did, no?

[trail hull]

But it’s outdated

[clear lichen]

Get whoever made it to update it then

Spam ping them

Idk

[clear lichen]

(For legal reasons, this is a joke)

[hexed agate]

Manaphy and Phione are missing

[clear lichen]

Whoops!

Mb

[hexed agate]

[clear lichen]

Idk I saw Samurott and I was like "Oh yeah Samurott let's add that"

[hexed agate]

Ducklett and Swanna

[clear lichen]

And then skipped over Manaphy as a result

[clear lichen]

Listed

[trail hull]

Oh yeah

[hexed agate]

[trail hull]

The two birds

[hexed agate]

I love Ducklett

[clear lichen]

2/3 things I was told weren't in my list were

Crazy

[hexed agate]

I'd kill to have it added

[trail hull]

Honestly a lot of the water type could fit in hoenn

[clear lichen]

Yes, I'm counting Manaphy and Phione as the same thing

[hexed agate]

I'm 1/2

[full bison]

If there's one Pokemon I'm down to see never get added, it's probably Phione

[hexed agate]

also if you're doing Forms, Arceus-Water and Silvally-Water

[clear lichen]

It's Phiover™

[hexed agate]

Washtom is a form of a mon in the game

[clear lichen]

Arceus Water is already in

And also, I'm not counting Silvally or Arceus for these

[hexed agate]

[clear lichen]

As they have a form for literally every type

So listing them is redundant

Except for their base form types because they do need to be ranked at least somewhere

[trail hull]

Can you believe that only 255 Pokémon from gen 4-7 are missing!?

[hexed agate]

yep

[clear lichen]

Like idk, it feels wrong to say Arceus Flying is a top 5 Flying type

Does it not?

[hexed agate]

PIF additions will eventually run out

[hexed agate]

pure flying type

[trail hull]

And then we’ll get an excuse to @ frog for gen 8 and beyond

I know it’s currently of the table but if the table is empty there’s free space

[clear lichen]

Out of these, my favourite is either one of the 2 Alola Water/Fairy types, followed by Araquanid

Though I'd rather Araquanid get in because Water Bubble goes brrr

[full bison]

I do wonder how the Tapus would be handled from a spriting perspective.

[prime dust]

the same as any other pokemon, they are distinct enough from each other via shape and color that i don't see it being too much of an issue

[trail hull]

I Hope to have finished my sprite dex before then

[clear lichen]

There's the normal way

[trail hull]

Because body fusion seems like a pain

[clear lichen]

And there's the "Hey let's just make their shells the other Pokemon and then have them all look the same" way

Something tells me both will happen

[tender plank]

man that feels wild to me

[hexed agate]

I just realized there are no Water UBs

[full bison]

Clearly a sign we need more of them

[clear lichen]

Idk who let Gamefreak cook with the UBs but I hope they got promoted to head chef

[tender plank]

i have not been really active around those times or even been in the discord when there were 420 mons, but it's crazy how there are only so much pokemon left until we're done with the whole dex

[trail hull]

A big part of them are gen 5

[trail hull]

I was in the server the first year they started adding mons again , if they never added new mons I probably wouldn’t have attempted being a spriter

[clear lichen]

2 minutes after that message, and holy SHIT is fucking sucks grammatically

Ignore how terribly constructed it is plsthx

[tender plank]

I joined around the time Cacturne was added since I randomly checked the Wiki and saw new Pokemon in the Pokedex and was curious on what was going on.

[prime dust]

i think i joined during the youtube blitz

[tender plank]

Only thing was that I couldn't speak here bc I didn't have my own phone (and number) so I couldn't verify myself.

[trail hull]

I see

[tender plank]

So I kinda just watched for the Sableye-Cresselia era. (Gotta say, that Regiquest was hype I wish I could've partaken in that)

then i kinda just remembered abt this when the next wave started and remembered I had a phone then

[trail hull]

The reason why I only became a spriter after new mons got announced is that at first o thought all other fusion were almost done (boy was I wrong) and then when new mons came there was an spriter only poll so I decided that I wanted to become a sprite to participate in that poll

[tender plank]

and the rest just kinda happened itself

sometimes i remember that these were my first words coming into this server

[hexed agate]

I had an old drawing that was a fusion that I wanted to have sprited, so I began to learn to sprite

it was on my list of things I wanted to do for years, so

it was this btw

[clear lichen]

I know I lurked a lot before becoming more active

That's all I know

[full bison]

I downloaded the game a little before new Pokemon started getting added, but didn't actually start interacting with the server until late last year

Think it was a little before the Golisopod reveal

[alpine rune]

I downloaded on the first alpharad video

Became spriter because no one accepts my request

Smh

[full bison]

So far the only requests I've made are either never picked up or they're accepted and I'm just waiting

[clear lichen]

I dont feel comfortable with making requests because I end up feeling like I'm asking for too much

[trail hull]

Don’t worry now non spriter can’t accept request so there’s higher chance that when it gets accepted it gets made

[clear lichen]

That said, I suppose that's kinda hypocritical

Considering the channel we're in

:/

[trail hull]

?

[clear lichen]

Remember, this has been new pokemon discussions at multiple points

And I've definitely been quite active in here

[trail hull]

Oh yeah

[clear lichen]

I will say most of my Pokemon requests aren't quite as repeated as most others

But my requests for Oriciorio to get QD on the other hand

Or for Whimsicott to lose Spore

[trail hull]

Oh

[clear lichen]

I mean, if any Pokemon should get QD added to their moveset

It should be one that got it in a later generation, no?

[alpine rune]

Whimsicott don't got spore though-

[clear lichen]

It does in PIF

[alpine rune]

I don't think it has sleep powder either

[clear lichen]

Via TM, I'm not sure what the obtainability on it is but it's allowed on Pokeathalon

[alpine rune]

U sure ur not misremembering whimsicott breloom fusion?

[clear lichen]

Yup

Affirmative

Like I said, I think it may be like

An unobtainable TM or something

Which if you're playing normally it's fine

If you're playing a randomiser

Or on the Showdown

Then, uhh

Have "fun"!

[alpine rune]

Showdown bans spore already

Pokeathlon that is

Unless Ur playing ag

[clear lichen]

I've heard of people still talking about it so either there's non Singles formats where this is big or stuff has changed

That said Whimsicott should not be given Spore like, ever

I get the idea is that it's a cotton Pokemon but like

Spore is very obviously meant to be mushroom spores

And Cotton Spore is already a move

That Whimsicott learns

[alpine rune]

Even still people would definitely run mushroom fusions for the spore if spore didn't exist for whismsy thou

It's just the nature of competitive

[clear lichen]

Yeah but Whimsicott is just so much more absurd than all of them

[trail hull]

Mushroom are not the only owner of spores even if they are the most popular

[clear lichen]

Every user of Spore is a mushroom Pokemon

If they wanted it to be just spores in general they'd have given it to a lot more Pokemon by now

[alpine rune]

Pretty sure it's just the mushroom pokemon

[clear lichen]

And wouldn't have made Cotton Spore

Whimsicott is also egregious with Spore

The fastest user of Spore that isn't forced to go last with it is like

[trail hull]

Oh okay

[clear lichen]

Breloom at 70 speed?

[alpine rune]

It's prankster mostly

[clear lichen]

That's cool and all but Whimsicott has 116

Like ignore Prankster at this point

You could force Whimsicott to run abilitiless

And 116 Speed Spore would still be wack

Not that it cares about Dark types blocking Prankster Spore anyways

Since it's a fucking Fairy type

[alpine rune]

I mean it would matter a hell of a lot. I could use some grass type with chlorophyll and it wouldn't matter

[clear lichen]

"Overcoat and Safety Goggles" Yeah simply just play unoptimally to counter 1 Pokemon and lose to every other

[alpine rune]

God gen 8 and gen 9 just have so many good items now that I think about it

[clear lichen]

Grass type is a good argument

Since Grass/Steel is a fucking baller type

Actual top 1 defensive type candidate right here

[alpine rune]

Can't wait for them to release amoongus

[clear lichen]

Unfortunate that Spore is banned but at least you can use the most busted (normal) user of Spore

In like a casual playthrough

Also has Regenerator to pass on if you can get HA

And decent stats

With 2 types that can definitely be utilised well

And reliable recovery

Its stats could definitely be better but they'll do

Anyways I'm sure you can tell I'm quite annoyed by how Whimsicott learns Spore

At least it's Rando and Showdown exclusive (I think?)

I really have no clue if the Spore TM is obtainable or not

Heck, maybe I'm stupid and it was removed a few updates ago

I know is was a thing during the last votes

Not sure now tho

Because realistically nobody cares, if anything they'd like it since majority of players don't care about how balanced something is

But my brain has been permanently reprogrammed to always have balance at the back of my mind

[alpine rune]

Tbh I'm more confused on how you would encounter a spore whimsicott enough times for you to get angry this much cuz

1. Pretty sure randomized Pokémon would only have their learnset pool of moves, but no TM moves. (Let alone illegal TMs)
2. Spore was banned even before the first IF tournament for the raffle, besides doubles and AG.
3. I'm 99% sure you're just reliving brecott trauma, not base whimsy at this point.

[clear lichen]

I haven't, it's just that the idea is so darn absurd that my competitive coded brain just can't comprehend why it exists

Definitely a personal problem

[alpine rune]

[clear lichen]

But I mean it doesn't even make sense lore-wise

It's like how Reshiram has Tail Glow now

Except at least Reshiram's tail glows

I also want to note that by definition, seeds are spores

So uhh

[alpine rune]

So you're saying that seed bomb should have a chance to put Pokémon to sleep? :0

[clear lichen]

I'm saying Spore refers to specifically fungal spores

The animation uses a mushroom, all the users are mushroom Pokemon

It is simply mushroom spores

[alpine rune]

aw

[quaint matrix]

Damn I might have missed the opportunity to Water agenda some more

That's fine...

Anyway with regards to Spore I understand the conceit of the changes but there is a very deliberate reason Spore is like given on extremely limited amounts of Mons

And to date the only mon that ever cracked the high tiers placement with Spore in Smogon is still just Breloom (and only during Gen 3 was he OU)

All other mons that has Spore has extremely limited utility beyond that that they have Spore and that is such a deliberate distribution method it's totally why Spore is even allowed to exist in the first place

[carmine pebble]

Is it going to ne the same included generations or will it go past generation 7?

[quaint matrix]

The usual

Nothing for Gen 8+ still sorry

[clear lichen]

Amoonguss:

[quaint matrix]

I admittedly forgot he exist lmao

[clear lichen]

It's Amoongover

[quaint matrix]

It's funny cuz I remember he wasn't OU during Unova to Alola but then his stock just rises the fuck up

And it's not even about his Paradox form he kinda just got better

And I don't follow the meta of the new mon games anymore so idk exactly what but hey

Happy for him

OU should be GU (Grass-Used) so my agenda reigns supreme

[clear lichen]

Tbf it isn't even OU in SV anymore but like they banned sleep what would you expect

I do think it maybe dropped to UU beforehand?

Idk I don't find playing vs Tera very fun so I just don't play SV often, though I do somewhat keep up with meta developments

[quaint matrix]

Tera is just such a competitively fuck mechanic

It just makes my agenda so much stronger because turns out Tera-ing into the broken types makes your mon better whoa holy fuck dude who'd have thought

You mean to tell me my defensive mons became better when I tera them into Steel? Or my offensive mons becomes so much better when I turn them into Water that's crazy dude....

[full bison]

I'm genuinely worried about how bad the powercreep will get later down the line if they thought that the stuff in SV was ok

[quaint matrix]

Outside of the pocket cases like Dragonite being Tera Normal cuz STAB Extreme Speed is wicked cool that's all Tera is to me