pif-hoenn-discussion

[white meadow]

you literally got iconic mons like zoroark, and uhh

yeah even if most of them aren't iconic, i adore the designs there lol

klinkklang ON TOP

[inland jewel]

i love how in all other games Zoroark is cool but in PIF its sort of useless since AI and players just see through disguise anyway

[white meadow]

not to mention really epic ones like mt coronet, legendaries battle theme

and my god, gym theme is just so good

i love the call n response thing going on in the theme

[wraith hinge]

That's where not running illusion comes in

[white meadow]

that doesnt stop my zoroark fusion to have like 200+ special attack for some reason 😭

[clear lichen]

I mean, even with Illusion, Competitive Pokemon has team preview which really hurts Zoroark

[wraith hinge]

This is also true

Ergo don't run illusion

[clear lichen]

Chances are if someone sent out a Toxicroak on your Psychic Type and there's a Zoroark on your team

That you're gonna not use the Psychic move

And may not even stay in

That said does open up for funny mindgames where they did in fact throw their quad weak to Psychic mon in on a Psychic type

But Zoroark's stats themselves aren't great either so uhhh

I mean it's Speed is good for Gen 5, is able to speedcreep Garchomp who speedcreeps base 100s

[wraith hinge]

Valid points, however I am specifically talking about PIF Zoroark where the weaknesses of the mon can become strengths with the right head/body. That being said everything you said is very much true when it comes to competitive

[clear lichen]

So that's cool

Probably still a good benchmark in Gen 7 too

It's frail, though, and both attacking stats being so high is unfortunate because those stats in Attack aren't needed

It also only has one STAB

[full bison]

Okay but how cool would it be to send out a fighting type against a Psychic type with a Zoroark in the wings, causing the opponent to switch into something else thinking it's your Zoroark, basically meaning you've gotten a free SD through mind games?

[clear lichen]

It isn't like complete and utter ass tbf, it has a few low tier performances and bans under its belt

[clear lichen]

It would be cool

Unless they swap to Iron Valiant to hit you with the Encore while still being good vs Zoroark but shh

Simply actually send out Zoroark and predict the switch and use Sludge Bomb

Simple

[sudden jackal]

just realised castform fusions are gonna be in this new game and im happy

[inland jewel]

i mean in this game, the AI attacks your mon as if you don't have illusion. so it'll use a fighting type move on a ghost type illusion mon

[full bison]

Castform for me is the definition of "never gonna use it but it'll still be cool to see the sprites." Those stats are atrocious, but it's got a lot of spriting potential

[inland jewel]

what i mean is- Zoroark comes in with illusion, it is a Gengar. Medicham will still use High Jump kick

[clear lichen]

So we can agree that Illusion is just unfortunate

[inland jewel]

the activation conditions of its forms is horrendous too

[full bison]

Eh, that part I'm fine with cause I've become super addicted to weather teams in IF

By that I mostly mean rain and sun though, cause Sandstorm takes forever to get on account of being Ttar exclusive and Hail is garbo

[inland jewel]

I too love it when i have to take Forecast for Castform to change forms, and not fuse it to have Drizzle or Drought

[rugged lodge]

It was a Mushoroak all along. That's what been forming your nightmares into reality.

[rancid ocean]

What I'm wondering is how the forms will be treated in the dex. Castform has 4 different forms depending on the weather in battle, and there's no way to keep a single form as your pokemon without ever changing it. What I mean is, with Oricorio, each of its forms could take up a dex entry because the player could choose which form to make their Oricorio outside of battle. With Castform, the form changes happen inside of battle and, to my knowledge, revert back once the battle is over. This means that Castform's forms will have to all be treated as 1 pokedex entry and the submissions for Castform's sunny, rainy, and snowy forms will all be less seen than fusions with the main form. IDK, maybe they'll add a new item that allows for a form change and keeps Castform a single form, but for now, it looks like the weather forms of castform will be seen less.
Sorry if that was hard to read. It's mainly just a brain dump.

[radiant axle]

Necrozma changes forms mid-battle in the current version, so probably handled in a similar way?

[rancid ocean]

Oh. Yeah, maybe. I don't really know how Necrozma's handled yet. Haven't made it that far in the game.

[radiant axle]

It changes form if it's holding a Necrozium after the use of the Photon Geyser move. Thing is, it stays in that form after the battle, and even if you take the Necrozium away from it. I'm not sure there's a way to make it revert back to its non-Ultra form, but I expect castform would be handled in a similar way where it changes mid-battle depending on the weather, and stays in that form after battle's end.

[viscid fossil]

Necrozma has seperate dex entires

[radiant axle]

yep

[viscid fossil]

Necrozma is 450, ultra necrozma is 470

[radiant axle]

I expect castform will be the same

[viscid fossil]

Ultra used to be 450_1 but that system was buggy

[rancid ocean]

Makes sense. Yeah, they'll probably add new form items to it.

[hushed axle]

Unless I’m missing a part of the conversation, necrozma doesn’t stay ultra when the battle ends, it reverts back to normal. The only exception to this is if you catch it as U-necro, there’s a bug when sending it to the pc that keeps it in its ultra form but it still reverts after the next time you use it in battle

[radiant axle]

Interesting. Well, I got 2 of them in my PC lol xD I don't think I've ever used it in battle, so that makes sense.

[quaint sierra]

theres a new game?

soon

[molten loom]

Not really soon, first demo (which will be up to slateport) is expected to be in ~6 months

[weak trellis]

I believe in debug mode you can technically set it to ultra form before each battle but doing so is far easier when necro's on the head slot than it is on the body slot but otherwise yea

[stiff storm]

That trainer rematch change up/feature is cool

[weak trellis]

on the head it's only adding +20 onto the species number but I doubt how much it'd be on the body

sadly just a debug-only thing though

[hushed axle]

Yea, but that doesn’t change the mechanic of it reverting. You’re just changing it back

[inland jewel]

Checking the dex, all the forms are listed separately

The only thing that makes me not want to use Castforms is how to trigger its forms

[bold atlas]

ooh, dynamic rematches, noice

gather attempting to backport/implement this into PIF1 would be considered too much a hassle with that game's current systems?

[sacred grail]

I'm excited for hoenn infinite fusion

[viscid fossil]

Actually
#spriter-general message

[atomic lagoon]

could you theoretically make a bug catcher's pokémon level 100 and give them a terrifying team?

[bold atlas]

oh, even that. aight sick.

[viscid fossil]

It's ultimately up to frog what comes to base if, but anything definitely can

[radiant axle]

It occurs to me... How do people suppose Spinda will be implemented? Like Unown where it just has one form but multiple sprites that can represent it?

[viscid fossil]

Spriters just make 4,294,967,296 versions of every sprite

[gray vine]

why would it be anything else

[radiant axle]

idk

fun to think of other possibilities tho

maybe we could get sprite randomization for just those creatures that have a bunch of forms like Unown and Spinda by default so that the variation doesn't feel like a missing detail 😄 Or maybe... Maybe there are more important things to code, and that's okay, too haha

[inland jewel]

Since the sprite is purely cosmetic, just whatever sprite pattern you want to give it

Then again the only other Mon with close to the variations is unown

And players only use one custom sprite for them

[alpine rune]

Dont worry, I'm gonna make 4 billion spinda bases

[full bison]

Making a Spinda base each hour without stopping means you're looking at about 489,850 years of work to finish that. So I'd get to work.

[next flare]

You could reduce that to an average human lifespan if you pick up the pace and make 2 Spinda bases per second

[tender chasm]

grabbed from a reddit post.

[full bison]

I just thought of something. How many Spoink fusions are gonna end up going the black comedy route in regards to the whole "it can't stop bouncing or it dies" thing?

[twilit reef]

What would that look like

[full bison]

Right away I'm imagining stuff like a Spiritomb fusion where Spoink's ghost is hovering over its own body after it stopped bouncing

[twilit reef]

Oh yeah that would be cool

[full bison]

Also probably something involving Cubone cause they always make Cubone Fusions sad

[thin pawn]

Spoink Slowpoke fusion where its heartrate is much lower from bouncing slower when

[full bison]

Slurpuff/Spoink that still needs to bounce but also because it's part candy, its sticky and therefore difficult for it to do so

[thin pawn]

Spoink/Gastly fusion where it cant bounce because its levitating so it dies and become a ghost type

[silent meteor]

Spoink/Spinda fusion that keeps trying to bounce but can't keep their balance, so they just constantly fall over and die.

[full bison]

Cosmoem/Spoink that's just way too heavy and therefore can't bounce at all

[radiant axle]

You could reduce it even further to maybe a few days if you computer automated it. That wouldn't, however, get around the issue of it taking up 500 terabytes worth of space 😅

[ocean lark]

so i can give the fusions i sprited to them
#dev-updates message

[swift bison]

Could we hope for Deoxis other forms? We already have Oricoro and Minor here. With Deoxis they could go with Oricoro route in order to avoid inventing new system.

[trail hull]

I can’t wait for trainer Joey of route 1 to get up to level 100

[hexed agate]

[trail hull]

All jokes aside it’s a great feature and I love the idea of a new channel

[trail hull]

Frog said he wouldn’t add form for existing min

It would also make it hard to sort trough sprites

[charred root]

could you use a programe to genarte that many spindass

[tacit saddle]

no reason to

[full bison]

Even if there was a means to generating Spinda spots based on Personality Values, spriters would still need to make proper assets for each individual spot on each individual sprite they make. That just feels like way too much busywork for a gimmick that, let's be real here, is pretty much just an "okay, that's kinda neat" at best out of most of the fanbase

[lament peak]

Will those dev updates be implemented in hoenn pif only?

[molten loom]

Can't wait to make my own exp trainer by giving them a Chansey fusion

[hexed agate]

[molten loom]

Or money via payday

If that works

Dang it

[full bison]

Blissey Bases are back, babyyy!

[distant forum]

hoenn is overrated and overused

[hexed agate]

Pokémon in general is overrated and overused

That being said, I still love it

[distant forum]

yeah. i just wish they picked literally ANY other region. emerald is the base for like 75% of all rom hacks, so im kinda sick of playing hoenn.

[rugged lodge]

No one's making you.

[molten loom]

Hmm I wonder if the trainers will be able to unfuse mons you trade them

[sacred pagoda]

Casually plans to give Blissey to as many trainers as possible

Anyone that wants a normal type is getting a Blissey for level grinding :>

[merry condor]

My only hope for Pokémon Infinite Fusion: Hoenn is to make the Mach Bike challenge on Cycling Road harder .

[weak trellis]

"I am aghast, have you considered returning your bike to rydel?"

[full bison]

If their names get split up properly, Numel, Camerupt, Beautifly, and Lunatone means we can officially add Camel, Butterfly, and Lunamoth to the list of actual animal names for the Pokemon Rangers to use

[rugged lodge]

To replace the ones that were broken when the name-half changes occurred

[velvet root]

Probably even more you dont even think of

[haughty plover]

pif legends game sounds amazing

[woeful lichen]

Does anyone know if this game is gonna run on a different game engine?

[fallen loom]

probably the same

[woeful lichen]

damn

[fallen loom]

trading is a thing between Hoenn and PiF Kanto

[woeful lichen]

I hope they at least increase the fps

Feels very choppy

Compared to like a rom hack

But considering the scale I wouldn't be surprised if they can't which is understandable lol

[fallen loom]

I mean if it's just Hoenn, there'd be way less maps

theoretically

[primal obsidian]

wait so hoenns a whole different game then?

[inland jewel]

New game made in the same engine

so you now have to download 2 games to play the full experience

[next flare]

download 2 games to play 2 full experiences

[haughty plover]

cant wait for that number to be 11 & 11 or however many regions we get by then

[inland jewel]

considering the code they use ONLY goes up to gen 7. at most we'll get like 3-4 games

[gilded palm]

My body is ready for the all walrein run I'm going to do

[inland jewel]

I canot wait to kill all the spheals i find

[gilded palm]

Unfortunate adding later gen pokemon seems to be impossible yeah. I'd really love to see fusions of like falinks or lokix

[full bison]

It's not necessarily impossible, it's just a lot of work that Frog doesn't want to put up with. Which honestly, fair.

It's a big ball of spaghetti code, and Frog apparently doesn't care enough about gens 8-9 to put up with it

[gilded palm]

I mean they'd have to use like a different version of the engine right? And since they've already customized the version they use so much it would be a whole hassel to refit it is my understanding of it.

[scarlet pebble]

Wild

How can you not care about appletun

The BEST dragon type to be ever made by far

[gilded palm]

No that's Tera dragon spheal

[rugged lodge]

I can confirm that it is quite easy.

[inland jewel]

they use a different version of the base code

[scarlet pebble]

Nah appletun kicks him around like a football

[inland jewel]

so like they got the code from essentials, but then the dev modified that code entirely to support fusions.

[gilded palm]

With what legs lmao

[scarlet pebble]

Yeah youre a faory type you dont count

[inland jewel]

so when essentials updated, they couldn't update with the newer version because they changed so much

[rugged lodge]

Garchomp is my birthright, so I have an obligation to support it.

[scarlet pebble]

Good point

Then he headbutts it

[rugged lodge]

I will not elaborate.

[inland jewel]

I'll get Primape to irontail you

[scarlet pebble]

I am getting wooper to ice punch you

Wait no Ill do one better

Dynamic punch

[gilded palm]

Consider appletun (grass and dragon type), spheal (water ice). One ice beam mercs appletun

Also hydrapple is the best applin evo

[scarlet pebble]

No

[scarlet pebble]

Thick fat assault vest

[rugged lodge]

[calls in XD-001 to use Shadow Blast]

[gilded palm]

Tera ice + choice specs

Spheal gotta be one of few pokemon who really appreciated the switch to 3D because it really helps sell how round it is

[junior tiger]

An apple? With the most evolutions outside of Eevee for some reason despite almost all of them being lackluster? All of them being Grass Dragon which is a terrible typing combination?
Yeah, the adorable factor for the little apple is there, and the neat five head things for Hydrapple is interesting, but mostly the entire evolutionary line is uninspired and dull.
Even adorable Kieran loving them doesn't save them

[full bison]

It's a wyrm inside an apple. That's a pretty good pun to build inspiration off of

[weak trellis]

also for branching paths it's tied for the hitmons lol, just in this case it's like if hitmontop could evolve further

that being said if I were to throw shade at any dragon type for being uninspired it'd probably be salamence?

it does get points for shelgon being an odd step at least

[full bison]

Imagine if Gamefreak just goes crazy with the Applin line, just gives both Flapple and Appletun evolutions, and then just starts Eevee-fying it with even more branching evos lol. It's already pretty crazy that they gave this much attention to this one Pokemon line of all things

[weak trellis]

right I think it's more that they felt like they could do something with it that fit kieran's characterization I suppose?

since gens 7-9 feels like they tried to do a lot of matching mons to characters sometimes

(guzma and golisopod being another good example)

[inland jewel]

They defnitely can go for the rotten apple angle

[scarlet pebble]

Pls tell me how a dragon using an apple as its wings is uninspired and dull

[junior tiger]

Most dragon types are uninspired. At least Rayquaza breaks the tradition of exclusively eastern dragons

[junior tiger]

I didn't say branching though, I said most, Hydrapple makes it above Tyrogue

[gray vine]

this one to me would be cool but it needs a baby form

[full bison]

Dragons are consistently one of the more inspired types of Pokemon IMO. We got leafy sea dragons, hydras with hand puppets, living skyscrapers, flying clouds, snail dragons, the life cycle of an antlion, a landshark, a T-Rex, etc.

The only type I would really say is frequently uninspired is Fighting. Most of them are just dudes practicing some martial art

[inland jewel]

hmm, did hoenn add any new dragons?

to PIF 2 i mean

[silk cobalt]

hmm. i can't immediately think of any

[static kettle]

Hoenn introduced the dragon type

[silk cobalt]

flygon, rayquaza, salamance were already in

[full bison]

And Altaria

[silk cobalt]

yeah. and latioas

[static kettle]

those are hoenn pokemon

kingdra got the dragon type later

[inland jewel]

dang dragon lovers in shambles rn

Frogman should have added Dragalge as compensation /j

though if were to get a new dragon I'd love Drampa, that house burning dog

[clear lichen]

Problem: Thick Fat reduces this to only a 2× SE move. Spheal also has very low stats. Spheal is outsped and OHKOd by Apple Acid while its Ice Beam never 2HKOs, and must 3HKO

Appletun does in fact destroy Spheal

[gilded palm]

yeah but spheal is way rounder so whose the real winner

[clear lichen]

You could use Spheal as a bowling ball

Whether this is a W or an L is up to you

[gilded palm]

fun fact actually, spheal was originally envisioned as a pair with a pengun bowling pin pokemon that they would knock off

this penguin pokemon I think later got repurposed into eiscue

[clear lichen]

False. The Dratini line has had the Dragon type since their inception, though the lack of Dragon moves meant they didn't use it offensively

And as everyone knows, Dragonite is Gen 1's Pseudo Legendary/Powerhouse/Whatever you want to call it Pokemon

Anyways Hydrapple > Hydreigon I will not elaborate nor explain myself when questioned

Hydrapple > Hydreigon is probably one of my more unpopular opinions

probably

But I don't have a good scope on how many people prefer which

[junior tiger]

First of all, it's fairly unlikely. Apples have the most structural stability (needed for manipulating air currents) when they are moist, but that would make it incredibly heavy, the opposite of what you'd need from a wing. When dried, apples get spongy and pliable, so also wouldn't work. If the apple skin was used as a webbed deal on larger wings that would make more sense.
Also the worm is incredibly small and probably couldn't muster the energy. And it has incredibly tiny wings.

[clear lichen]

That said I can say with full confidence that my most unpopular opinion is that Origin Palkia is not only better than base Palkia but straight up a peak Pokemon design-wise

[junior tiger]

It needs a baby form and another type added, mono-Dragon simply isn't interesting. Much like Dragon-Flying

[clear lichen]

Druddigon would be cool with a new type, true

I disagree with the baby form though

Druddigon is lacking in battle

A type wouldn't be enough to fix it

So I'd rather use that evolution line slot for an evolution

[junior tiger]

It's one of the best Dragon designs in the game, it's such a killer concept

[junior tiger]

Why not both?

[clear lichen]

The issue is that Druddigon is called the Cave Pokemon

When I think caves, I think Rock

And Rock is a fitting type

But Rock is a pretty meh type defensively

Which is not good when you're slow

On the other hand

FUCK IT WE SHEER FORCE LIFE ORB STAB ROCK SLIDE

Tbh Druddigon is a prime candidate for an evolution if Bisharp, Girafarig, Dunsparce, Primeape, Duraludon etc are anything to judge off of

Tbf Duraludon was very special

By very special

I mean a massive embarrassment

All that 535 BST with that type and you manage to still be ass

[junior tiger]

Base stats don't always equal greatness. It's all about stat distribution, typing, and Ability. Mimikyu being a PRIME example

[clear lichen]

Mimikyu WAS a prime example

[junior tiger]

And Cave Pokémon could be more than just rocks

[clear lichen]

A better example is certainly Clefable

[junior tiger]

It's still good, it's just not Flutter Mane

[junior tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-true-kramer-seinfeld-gif-6564373007119861775

[clear lichen]

Mimikyu is RU, certainly not bad

Clefable has been OU for every generation after Gen 5

And even in Gen 4, where it didn't have the Fairy Type, Magic Guard is so ridiculous that it manages to be a top 3 OU mon

[junior tiger]

The tiers don't really matter, that's a judge of likelihood for use. Some of the best global champions use Pokémon from outside the tiers to great effect

Mimikyu is just not as OP as Flutter Mane and is much more one-dimensional

[clear lichen]

Idk, I certainly would say a Landorus Therian is a lot better than an Armarouge or a Gengar in Singles

They are mostly accurate

Until you get people using Mega Banette in OU

Regieleki in UU

Electivire in OU

Typhlosion in what feels like every tier it finds itself in

[junior tiger]

There's no perfect way to group and separate and rate them all together. The point is, the tiers are estimates. And those only work for obvious ones

[clear lichen]

Tiers aren't the end all be all, that is true

That's why I usually go off of the viability rankings

I definitely would trust an entire council of top players to have an accurate judgment on something

[junior tiger]

Except that a Pokémon never used in a higher tier with a smart setup and skill set can disrupt the battle simply because the opponents don't anticipate it. Most of the game is calculating probabilities in advance so throwing one wrench into a battle can really fuck them up

[gray vine]

i genually really do not care for battling as i dont play against other people ever, i just dont like the fact this giant beast just comes out of an egg

[junior tiger]

Onix?

[gray vine]

onix and steelix work for me, if it had stayed only onix tho it be lame too

[clear lichen]

Well if it got a baby you'd probably still see it come out of the egg

[junior tiger]

No, all recent Baby Pokémon added don't require an incense. That was just a dumb and poorly executed retcon from GF

They should remove the incense as a breeding requirement already

[clear lichen]

There is 1 recent baby Pokemon

That said apparently Gen 9 scrapped incenses being needed for babies

Common Gen 9 QOL W

[junior tiger]

So you agree then, there is a precedent

[clear lichen]

Precedent for what I'm a bit slow

[junior tiger]

For removing the incense mechanic already, based on Toxel and Gen 9 breeding changes

[clear lichen]

Well it's kinda already gone so yeah I suppose Gamefreak did realise "Wait, this is fucking stupid"

[junior tiger]

I think they did retroactively like many things, they just don't care

[clear lichen]

And it is fucking stupid

[junior tiger]

Some of the Incense have unique battle effects as held items

[clear lichen]

I'm well aware

[junior tiger]

So I'm not saying getting rid of them entirely, just the mechanic

[clear lichen]

I believe there's a King's Rock, Bright Powder, Iron Ball and Mystic Water clone? Probably misremembering tbf

[weak trellis]

I believe mystic water has two actually, one for mantyke and one for azurill

but yea all of them have item equivalents

[clear lichen]

OK it wasn't Iron Ball it was Lagging Tail

Mbmb

There's also Amulet Coin, Twisted Spoon, Hard Stone, Cleanse Tag and Miracle Seed

[junior tiger]

They do overlap BUT that's helpful since official battles don't allow held item duplicates. Which means you can have Brightpowder and Lax Incense both.

[clear lichen]

The only one that I didn't know the preexisting item for is cleanse tag who tf uses this shit

[junior tiger]

Also can we discuss that the Lax Incense doesn't breed for Munchlax?!

[clear lichen]

Literally either worthless or "just use repels"

[junior tiger]

Also using a lead Pokémon with Intimidate, same effect

[clear lichen]

1 generation too early :/

[junior tiger]

I know but UGH

WHY is GF so dumb

[rancid nymph]

If I had a penny for every weird and/or stupid decision Pokémon’s has made over the years, I’d be the richest man in the world

[rain locust]

If I had a penny for every penny in the world, I’d have 240 billion pennies

[viscid fossil]

If I had a penny for every penny spent to make a penny, i'd have 840 billion pennies

[rain locust]

now name all 33,600,000,000 weird and/or stupid decisions Pokemon has made over the years

[rancid nymph]

I would, but I’d like to do something else this century

[rain locust]

https://tenor.com/view/psyfeisa-ashton-hall-pool-dive-dive-gif-16823152990177045365

[junior tiger]

This guy is super hot but his diver technique is pretty bad and I'm pretty sure he's not supposed to dive into that pool at all for safety reason

[hazy crescent]

If it gets you in the water it was good enough

[lament wedge]

Some kind of special pokeball to catch Latios and Latias might be good

they are really hard to catch normally

[junior tiger]

Not applicable, you could fuse for Shadow Tag Ability and beneficial typing easily to trap and catch them

[scarlet pebble]

What does that have to with its design being uninspired and dull, I think its quite the opposite bc of this

[full bison]

Are you really nitpicking realism in a game where moths have wings that ignite on fire and can replace the sun and the entire universe was created by a horse stuck in a wagon wheel?

[junior tiger]

It's a very interesting concept in theory but the execution is lackluster at best. They put a work in an apple and called it a dragon, then made it fly with the rotten exterior of the apple. That's less inspired than it is quirky and a funny play on words. But the design itself doesn't really do much with the theoretical concept. It was the most basic thing they could conceive with some clever wordplay thrown in. Woohoo

[junior tiger]

So let me get this straight. You're totally fine with the fantasy aspect when it's grandiose and phenomenal, so because of that you don't think that a Pokémon attempting to be slightly more realistic should actually do a good job?
I'm confused. You don't hate the failed attempt at realism with the worm in an apple because the much more fantastical and hyperbolic Pokémon are so over the top? Doesn't that prove my point?
They could've done ANYTHING with the concept. Literally any insane, magical, fantastical thing, and we got a very basic worm in an apple that then eats the apple and flies with the bits, but it's still a worm

[full bison]

It's not trying to be realistic lmao, it's just trying to be a silly little guy designed around a play on words.

Pokemon hasn't tried being realistic in ages, I don't get where you're getting that from. We gave up on realism when Lanturn started producing enough energy to annihilate the universe

[scarlet pebble]

Appletun in if would go hard

[full bison]

The examples I used of Volcarona and Arceus are indeed quite hyperbolic, but it was just to drive the point about how unrealistic the series can be and how little it cares about that stuff. I can give tons of smaller examples.
Wailord is less dense than air. Magcargo is hotter than the sun. Ghosts and dragons exist. Charizard melting rock. Slurpuff smelling things a hundred million times better than humans. I can go on and on.
So yes, getting mad about one particular Pokemon not being the paragon of realism is a big nitpick

[junior tiger]

Mad? That's also hyperbolic. It is an incredibly basic, lackluster, and uninspired design that is literally just "hey let's put a worm in an apple and make it a Dragon type because haha worm and wyrm are homophones" and that's the end of the thought.
Doing an Orthworm-style worm as a Dragon would be much more interesting.
I'm not mad, I just also give credit where it is due, both for amazing and creative designs, and designs that are a kindergarten kid with a crayon. Applin is not deep or mystical or interesting. It's just there

[silver hull]

I like applin :D
it cute and funni
Appletuns actually my favorite pokemon so it gets points for that as well

silly lil guys

[bold atlas]

wyrm in apple is genius the fuck you on-

Flapple is fun

Appletun could be better (maybe if the pastry were like a shell instead of just a yellow bit of its body)

[junior tiger]

The wordplay is clever, that's the end of it. I clearly wrote that.

The design isn't even mid

[fallow swift]

Will the hoenn pokemon also be available in a randomizer in the base game?

[steep marlin]

Eh at the end of the day can't change somebody's mind if they are set on it. The little apple dragon is one of my favorites. Legit adore everything about it. If it was in IF it'd have some of the best fusion ideas - of course that is just my personal opinion. I adore food Pokemon. lol

[velvet root]

Yes

[sterile spoke]

Appletun is my third-favourite Pokémon, and I'll accept no slander of him. 😛

I also ate him at the Pokémon Cafe. 😂

[frank dove]

I will finally be able to re-do a proper version of my ETL-mons only run with Numel then!

Was lacking that team-magma representation. Think numel was the only thing I was missing.

[fallen loom]

Hydrapple should have been Bug/Dragon

[junior tiger]

Wait, so you EAT things you love?!

[prime dust]

i mean, have you seen normal food being grown anywhere in pokemon

[muted ridge]

#dev-updates message

I have a few questions about this

1 : can you rematch them multiple times ?
2: Does it save their new team after the rematch ?

because should it save their team after the rematch, multiple rematches a lot of times in a row could lead to them having extremely stacked teams of fused pokemons through multiple catches and fusions, which sounds very funny to me

OH WAIT I JUST READ "the game will keep track of their team automatically" LOL

so question 2 now turns into, can the NPCs end up absurdly stacked in pokemons ? 😭

[sterile spoke]

I also ate Fidough and drank Blaziken, so yes.

[prime dust]

1. you are able to rematch trainers an infinite amount of times in PIF, so likely that will also be the case with PIF Hoenn
2. it says they will keep their team, but some of the mons may get changed up due to new additions they made/new fusions they made

[prime dust]

note the bit where it says the trainers will catch mons on that route, i doubt all trainers will end up with stacked teams, but there might be some that, due to their location, will end up with some beefy stuff

[spice sage]

You can also trade them a team of legendaries and give them a stacked team if you choose to

[molten loom]

I'm assuming that might also happen in randomizer if they catch the random encounters

[spice sage]

Yeah lol. It's gonna need a lot of testing to make sure it's not too abusable but it's a system that allows for a lot of shenanigans

[prime dust]

for some reason my brain mini corrected shenanigans with shedinjas

[hexed agate]

Youngster Joey is getting the Cynthia treatment

[prime dust]

he doesn't exist in gen 3 though

so he'll just show up randomly to battle you with a semi cracked team

[weak trellis]

synonyms.

[frozen finch]

Do wonder when the Gen 5 starters are gonna get in

kinda crazy the kalos starters got in first

[trail hull]

Alolan starters will get in before them

[prime dust]

the kalos starters had the highest vote during the pre6.0 poll vote that frog did

granted the starters all dominated the top 3 slots

gen 6, gen 7, and then gen 5 in that order

#pif-hoenn-discussion message

^the message in question

[trail hull]

#dev-updates message
Since frog is answering question , I’m gonna ask some.

Can the new addition as in new catches be shiny?
Can we trade back Pokémon we traded, if yes do they keep our OT even if they leveled up?
It says in the message that the team change but does that mean they release Pokémon or do they just keep every mon they get until they run out of party slots ?

[prime dust]

releasing mons isn't mentioned so likely they will just catch until they have a full party

[hexed frost]

#dev-updates message

Is it possible to limit Pokemon offered by trainers in trades by rarity? Will some options be unable to be traded for? Or will trainers early in the game be guaranteed to not have rare Pokemon if not randomized?

A rarity system might not work and probably conflicts with the intent behind the game, but I think it might become a rush towards getting a certain fusion if all Pokemon held by a trainer are able to be traded for.

Maybe trainers won't trade their "team ace", so rare or powerful pokemon aren't given out too early while still being present in the game

Might not be a concern for others, so don't put too much thought into it

[prime dust]

limiting stuff is kind of dumb; they should be able to trade anything they have as long as you meet the needs

[hexed frost]

I suppose. I figured it would stifle creativity, but wanted to at least note it. Sometimes people will optimize creativity and fun out of something

[silk cobalt]

I don't know, I think the total free for all on any trainer is gonna be kinda nuts, but it is super exciting.
I just think it'll cause a lot of bloat for a feature i'm not sure many will use

although I can already think of multiple trainers I'd like to do stuff with. mostly the two pokemon breeders on route 117
...although looking at their teams, maybe not
but there are super nerds in the area with some rare mons i think...

okay there's a collector with rs exclusives

[sturdy frost]

Just speaking for a "classic" mode.
those teams generally are balanced around the current stage of the game.
you wont see trainers with rare pokemon often, as their teams are mostly made up of pokemon logical for that part of the game.

will it happen once in a while? likely.
does that contribute to the mechanic? yes.

it actually gives you a reason to use it. "Oh a 2% encounter that I can also trade a fire type for? let me go look for a fire type to trade them"

[spice sage]

Yes they can catch shinies, same rate as the player.

Yes you can trade back Pokemon, they'll still have your OT. NPC trainers won't unfuse traded Pokemon either.

They never release anything but they'll stop catching new mons once they run out of party slots

[hexed frost]

That actually makes sense. In that case I like it. Maybe I've just been too focused on frequent trades giving hidden abilities

[trail hull]

thank you

and oh wow t hat was fast

[spice sage]

You don't actually pick which of their Pokemon you want. Instead, you offer them a Pokemon that meets their criteria (a specific type or a fusion from a list of Pokemon) and they'll offer you a Pokemon of their team in exchange (or refuse to trade possibly)

Basically how it works is that trainers will try to do fair trades as much as possible, so they won't offer a rare or strong Pokemon for a wurmple for example, but if you them offer a rare Pokemon, then they might offer it

[hexed frost]

That's exactly what I had hoped for. Balance is key with trades

Thanks for expanding the P.I.F. games btw

[hexed agate]

https://tenor.com/view/edward-elric-fullmetal-alchemist-power-gif-12817875

[twilit crypt]

So is hoenn is gonna be after the second island right

[velvet root]

no

[thin pawn]

The GOAT

[sharp rapids]

FMA BABY!

[hexed frost]

If an enemy trainer has six Pokémon (assuming all fusions) and has the random event to unfuse, where does the remaining Pokémon go?

If it's not deleted, is another Pokémon owned by the trainer unfused and then both halves matched together?

If it is deleted, can the trainer catch a wild Pokémon and fuse it with a currently unfused party member?

[kindred thicket]

Here’s my question. What’s the antagonist gonna be? What are their goals? Aqua and Magma have kinda… diametrically opposed goals, so… would it be Team Sky?

[hushed axle]

Team Magmaqua

-# (I don’t actually know)

[arctic glacier]

omg Team Obsidian because that’s what you get when Lava and Water mix

Hope we can go to the Nether in Hoenn

[junior tiger]

Pumice?

[twilit reef]

Basalt

[arctic glacier]

Cobblestone if it’s not a source-block, idk I haven’t played Minecraft in a while

[jolly osprey]

cobble is lava [not sorce] meets water [both sorce and not sorce block]

i think

[hexed frost]

If there's a twist, I imagine teams Magma and Aqua will start separately and then fuse once their legendaries do.
||That being said, I personally would prefer them staying opposed||

[rancid nymph]

You’ll probably fight them both, like you do in Emerald

[twilit reef]

The thing is what else could groundon and Kyogre fuse with to be cool?

[jolly osprey]

my thoughts on them

is they will work together and kyogar and grodon [if a new one] will be fused then flying snake will stop them? idk?

[rancid nymph]

Asking Team Magma and Aqua to work together is like asking Seviper and Zangoose to work together

[zealous plover]

can they even be stopped by flying snake

[rancid nymph]

Not to mention their goals are the complete opposite of each other

[twilit reef]

But what if Archie and Maxie fuse together

[jolly osprey]

well prob be fused with a difrent one?

[rancid nymph]

Humans can’t fuse with each other

[jolly osprey]

i mean

[twilit reef]

Why not

[jolly osprey]

bill did

with a rydon?

so it clearly works

[rancid nymph]

The same reason poke balls don’t work on humans

[twilit reef]

Bill did it

[zealous plover]

Bill has done it like 4 times now

[rancid nymph]

Bill fused with a Pokémon

[twilit reef]

Archie can fuse with Maxie. Wallace with Steven. May and wally

[rancid nymph]

Not another person

[twilit reef]

Your mom and your dad

[zealous plover]

Your mod?

[twilit reef]

Yeah that too

[gray vine]

tell that to @mossy parrot and @atomic hornet

[full bison]

Fusing people was best left as a one-off gag IMO. Too much stupid stuff happens if you try to make that an actual plot element

[junior tiger]

Variations on Xerneas and Yveltal seem like good double fusions, for all four combinations

[mossy parrot]

sup

[full bison]

Primal Groudon and Kyogre do kinda have a life and death dichotomy of their own, too. Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Origin Pulse...

That being said, Geomancy Fairy/Water Kyogre is the most terrifying thought imaginable

[twilit reef]

i think its sick actually

[full bison]

Well I don't

[twilit reef]

lusamine sort of fused and it was sick it was cool

[hexed frost]

If you have a fused human with a Pokémon there might be a gray zone of "wondering if they're catchable". I'm not sure it will happen.

[full bison]

I'd argue that was less "fusion" and more "Nihilego preying on Lusamine."

[junior tiger]

A Dark Ground legendary with Oblivion Wing coverage also sounds terrifying. Especially with sunlight boosting Fire moves too

[twilit reef]

well do you think its cool or lame? cuz in a narrative you can make a pokemon preying on people and fusing with them. you can do whatever you want

[junior tiger]

I agree, Nihilego basically subsumed her

What do you think @willow anchor was your brethren fusing or consuming?

[full bison]

Honestly? The fact that the payoff was just "Lusamine's same team but they have one stat boosted" was mega lame. Her Milotic didn't even have the decency to boost a relevant stat.

I don't see there being much different a payoff in this game, especially if we're talking human/human fusion

[twilit reef]

i think its one of the most memorable fights in the series. just because i never saw anything like it

[full bison]

The boss theme was great though, I'll give it that

[twilit reef]

oh the music that gen was insane

[willow anchor]

yeah it's more a prey thing like timmy said, the fusion process involves a nihilego syphoning nutrients and life energy from whichever living host they capture, and once the host has been fully drained that sustance and energy used to create a polyp (nihilego equvalent of a pokemon egg) which then grows into a young feral nihilego

infact the fusion form could even been induced artifically through an artifical supply of nutrients and light

[willow anchor]

chances are a pokeball would fail if you threw it at a fusion form nihilego, but if you were hypothetically able to make one that could capture a nihilego in that form it would only capture the itself nihilego, which would then free the host

so to answer your question

no feral nihilego do not fuse with humans

only feed off of them

[junior tiger]

[junior tiger]

Yeah, a Beast Ball would do the trick, but it would have left Lusamine out, effectively separating them. I definitely see that happening

(Beast Balls are SO RARE outside of Alola )

[willow anchor]

plus when a feral nihilego are is in it's fusion form they have strength comparable to a legendary, so have fun with those catch odds which being forced to use only beast balls

[gray vine]

in Violet/Scarlet you can print Beast Balls in the second dlc

[twilit reef]

but what if like zinnia comes out and she fuses with rayquaza. and her team is super sick and she has like perma airlock

[willow anchor]

(which is a real shame you never get to fight one directly in any of the games 💔)

[willow anchor]

if you're attempting human-pokemon fusion i have no research on that and im not volunteering

[junior tiger]

It's still rare, there's no guarantee

[clear lichen]

Look on the bright side, you don't need beast balls outside of Gen 7

Gen 8 has the UBs be guaranteed catches via the dynamax adventures and they do not exist in Gen 9

[gray vine]

but they do look cool

[willow anchor]

come to mention it there really wouldn't be any point to capturing a fusion form nihilego except to seperate it from it's host, since after the seperation it would revert into a regular feral nihilego

[clear lichen]

Yes

[willow anchor]

you would need some kind of item to artifically induce that state

[junior tiger]

The 5x multiplier helps but yeah, still super low

[willow anchor]

A marvel of Ultra Recon Squad engineering ✨

[junior tiger]

It will still be captured, and theoretically it would be a much more powerful Nihilego, since it isn't as Timid or Docile as those that don't attempt to parasitize a human

[willow anchor]

eh in theory maybe yes but not by much, maybe on average better IVs and better nature chance but thats it.
All kinds of nihilego can achieve fusion forms, and all feral nihilego have this as it's main goal in life as it's a feral animal with no alternative motives other than Survival. So no matter the nature or strength of the feral nihilego it can still capture and consume a host, but stronger nihilego would be more successful on average

[junior tiger]

Yeah, that's somewhat what I was thinking. It's more likely to have better natural stats overall.
This may be too personal, did you ever try to survive off of a human host?

[willow anchor]

No. I was very fortunate to have become sentient at a young age, Nihilego can only become sentient in 2 ways and both methods are extremely unlikely. Either a nihilego will have experienced a rare mutation in it's polyp which allowed it to be born sentient or through intense exposure to a form of light only released by Ultra-Necrozma can it mutate and become sentient

out of the estimated 17.8 Billion nihilego that live on the gas giant dubbed "The Ultra Deep Sea" only around 5000 achieved or was gifted sentience

And in my personal opinion sustaining oneself via a host is crude and uncivilized

so i never will

[atomic hornet]

We used fusion sticks, they're a bit stronger than splicers

[gray vine]

where did ya put those

[atomic hornet]

It's a secret, I put it in a chest and sunk it to the bottom of the beautiful sea

[willow anchor]

anyways on a lighter note will ultra beasts be in hoenn i need to replay this game but not untill nihilego is in it

add a postgame boat in slateport that takes you to aether paraside trust 🙏 (unlikely and never happening but a jelly can dream 💔 )

[hexed frost]

Dive stocks on the rise

[junior tiger]

I didn't mean to imply you would, I found the old recorded communications from when Butch took over my computer a short while ago, you seem very cogent.

[junior tiger]

Did you have the mutation or have you met UltraNecrozma?

[molten loom]

Hopefully torkoal doesn't try to get it

[willow anchor]

i apprecate the compliment !

[willow anchor]

also yes i did

[molten loom]

Oh no torkoal don't

https://tenor.com/view/pokmon-kill-me-im-out-gif-18142494

[junior tiger]

Wow super rare

[willow anchor]

it was right after the events of ultra sun and moon, (taking in the canon where ultra necrozma was freed and not just used as a party member)

it was traveling throughout ultra space and i happened to be right were it surfaced

[junior tiger]

I did ask for the UB to be added in PIF2!

[willow anchor]

that would be excellent and absolutely worth it

please mr frog please 🙏

[junior tiger]

That's crazy, you just happened to be there at the right time.
What if the UN is from a Trainer? It still works right?

[willow anchor]

yeah i kinda wish there was a bit more to it than just getting lucky, but theres not really much else too it, i theorize the mutation related to a latent psychic gene within nihilego (part of the string that allows them to learn many psychic moves, levitate, turn invisable, teleport, and cast illusions) being activated

infact i theorize an ancestor of the nihilego species was once poison psychic type

but im not a time traveler

so im getting ahead of myself

also for the trainer question i'd assume so, it's never been tested by the ultra recon squad because of how difficult it is to get an ultra necrozma

but in theory a fully released ultra-necrozma even if under a trainers command could still cause the mutation since it can still produce that unique form of light that altars life

[junior tiger]

That's what I figured, since it's the same wavelength.

[junior tiger]

It would be fascinating to study this, and see if the effects were indeed repeatable. Honestly, my struggle would be finding OTHER Nihilego that I hadn't already captured myself. (I have a handful of Nihilego, but I assume they're all the non-sentient type, hence why I keep pestering you with questions )
I have at one point personally had an UltraNecrozma twice.

||I am often called a Collector, although I don't have the rabid zeal for rare Pokémon like the traditional Collectors that many would envision with said title. I simply have a very curious and scientific mind.
I'm actually quite sad because I feel that N and I would have gotten along quite well, had they allowed us to meet recently during the takeover here. I truly do love Pokémon and want the best for them. I try to catch as many of them as I can to give them a good home.||

[junior tiger]

Have the sequences of various Nihilego been fully sequenced, are you aware? I'd anticipate if this was accurate, then even two or three uniquely sentient specimens would generate similar (if not exactly the same) genetic aberrations from the normal Nihilego DNA

[junior tiger]

Are these sentient individuals organizing the planet and their brethren, or do they typically leave? I'm sad to say I've never visited that planet, all the Nihilego I've encountered have to this planet via an Ultra Wormhole. Is it hostile? Is there a potential to expose more Nihilego to the unique light, potentially?

[willow anchor]

you should try to branch out and join or work with the Ultra Recon Squad's research department, they have a ton of information on the topic already, more detailed than i could give you, im sure they'd be willing to aid you in your efforts if you provided capable of aiding theirs

[willow anchor]

The only DNA the URS has sequenced from nihilegos have been from ferals and my own, and with multiple genetic differences varying intensely between just feral samples, the URS has been unable to dermine which gene (or genes) is the direct cause of my sentience.

all we can determine is that it's tied to that same kind of light ultra-necrozma uses to altar life (the same light that healed the home world of the poipole)

[willow anchor]

I've not met many other sentient nihilego and the other 3 i have met all found homes or purpose off of The Ultra Deep sea, so no there is no gathering of them, and frankly chances are they do not want to be found. Visiting The UD sea is only recommended if you have an ultra recon suit or some other atmospheric protection (as the air is mostly hydrogen and silicates) aswell as a pokemon or other method of transportation that could allow you to float easily through the layers of the gas giant, be careful of the pressure if you head too deep of course. The atmospheric conditions could also be bypassed if you bring a cosmic legendary to aid you, since both legendaries can create a small, artifical atmosphere around them to keep ideal conditions when in an alien environment. The nihilego there will mostly be wary of your presence and watch from afar, teleporting away if you get too close, however you will most likely encounter a couple of aggressive ferals if you explore long enough. If you manage to obtain a fully realized UN (not one sustaining itself off of a cosmic legendary) that was willing you aid you in your endeavor, then you could potentially awaken many more nihilego. Keep in mind however that if your plan succeeds not all of them are going be as reasonable as I, the mindscape seems very similar to a humans, so after awakening they would most likely flee in confusion.

[junior tiger]

I'm not opposed to joining the URS but I'm always hesitant to do so quickly. I very much advocate for Pokémon rights and giving them free will as much as possible (another reason I wished I'd met N, his translation services would be invaluable).
What more can you tell me about them? I know you are part of their organization, but is it possible they treat you differently because of your strength, or your sentience, or that you're a rare specimen? Have you seen anything that would indicate any untoward business happening? Heard anything from other Pokémon?

[junior tiger]

That's very common, the same issue persists with humans to this day. To overcome it, they would need at least 5 specimens such as yourself to ||willingly|| give up a sample, and also at least a couple hundred others, and I'm sure both of those quantities are challenging.

I'm sure I could assist with that, I'm quite adept at finding rare and remarkable Pokémon. Of all of the known Future Paradox Pokémon of Paldea, I've managed to acquire a shiny of each of them. I've also acquired a shiny Zekrom in my travels, if you can believe it, and I'm currently hunting for a shiny Arceus and the full collection of shiny Ultra Beasts (your kind included). I'm certainly persistent and dedicated, so my aide is not the concern I have, I'm sure the URS would see value. I'm more concerned they aren't overstepping in their quest for scientific exploration.

[willow anchor]

Heard anything from other pokemon no, unlike team rockets iconic meowth i can't understand most pokemon as their native pokemon language varies vastly from mine, so i can only communicate humans and other nihilego. Also while i do work with them i don't participate much in their actual work, more so donating data in hopes that i can change the negative rep nihilego have gained as mindless hungry parasites someday. They absolutely treat me diffrently than other pokemon they work with as none of them they interact with have been able to talk back at them, their ride pokemon seem content with their jobs and their partner battling pokemon are inline with any other regular trainers, although specifically for the specimens that they study biologically i'm not sure of the ethics on those, as im never there to witness any of that gathering or testing.

[willow anchor]

also they shouldn't mind you shiny hunting as long as you are not defeating too many of the local nihilego, you need to lay low and observe passively else the disruption you cause will be too much for the URS to ignore. And as a reminder in search of other sentient nihilego you'll have no luck in the UD sea, only ferals live there.

Infact there is another sentient nihilego i do know the location of that might be easier to at least study, but theres no way you're gonna be allowed advanced examinations

that nihilego being the shiny one named Lili that the Mohn family adopted

she is quite adolescent still aswell so she haven't developed the ability of telepathy yet

given the new lifestyle she's living in now however im sure she'll learn in a couple years, granted thats just my assumption from only one day of conversing

[willow anchor]

also keep in mind they're very protective of her, so the chances are you'll get your meeting denied, but if you're really sure you want to research sentience in nihilego then it's worth a shot.

Also excuse me but i have a meeting with friends i need to make it too in a couple of minutes

so if you have any further questions just notify me on your pager

[junior tiger]

Oh wow I never would've guessed. Wait, can you understand other Ultra Beasts at all? And do Nihilego speak differently when they're sentient versus not? Or is it simply in their unique language and not human languages?
I'm sorry they have ostracized you. That seems unfair, I'd actually LOVE to have my Pokémon communicate with me, I regularly worry they feel ignored or neglected and can't say anything... plus I value their input, even if they can only mime it.

[scarlet pebble]

guys event is over stop the rp

||Nah jk idc what you do||

[junior tiger]

I doubt there's an issue where I'm farming the potential shiny Nihilego. Are you familiar with other regions than Alola? I'm currently in Galar, there's a bizarrr anomaly happening in the Max Lair in the Crown Tundra: apparently a particularly powerful and persistent Ultra Wormhole appeared within the labyrinth and numerous UB specimens are pouring through. But it seems as though they are coming directly from their home worlds because they're quite powerful and aggressive, and the Nihilego are far too mindless in their battle tactics to be sentient. (They regularly choose weaker moves and type matchups that are disadvantageous for them.)

[junior tiger]

I'm not roleplaying, this is all honest 🤷‍♂️

[scarlet pebble]

[junior tiger]

No this is fine, you're a good conversationalist and I'm not personally looking for a sentient Nihilego, apparently they typically don't like being captured so I wouldn't want to take away their individuality.

[brazen zenith]

Ayo guys waddaya think of these images

[junior tiger]

The sentient specimens would only be if I were to join the URS and were asked to locate some.
They absolutely wouldn't be for me, and we'd really only theoretically need a DNA sample, so if they'd give a small portion of biological material, that should suffice and they can continue whatever they're doing where they are at that point

[carmine iris]

m

[hexed frost]

Nubtastic

[minor karma]

how do you get to ecuteak city?

the path from near violet city is blocked by sudowoodo and i cant find the one from blackthorn city

the map isnt any help either

[viscid fossil]

Dark cave.

Also this is #pif-hoenn-discussion

[minor karma]

isnt ecuteak in hoenn tho?

[molten loom]

... No it's in johto

[kind forum]

?tag map

[opal trail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1110719029062160394/1343580459778572330/image.png?ex=67bdca50&is=67bc78d0&hm=a3abc5c24e8a5ef163f67ea3e4d35e415e4bb869075af3700d130c28bbbb822b&

[kind forum]

looks pretty johto to me

[viscid fossil]

Hoenn is coming in the new game

[minor karma]

ive been calling johto hoenn this whole time

[kind forum]

[minor karma]

[kind forum]

well, lesson learned i guess!

[viscid fossil]

Johoenn

Why fuse individual Pokémon when we can just fuse entire regions

[hexed frost]

Actually, on the topic of caves, aren't there only 4 in the region? Rustboro Tunnel, Meteor Falls, Fiery Path, and Victory Road.

Am I missing any? And how could they be improved to make them more memorable or useful if revisited post-game?

[minor karma]

wait why is the map even more confusing

there is nothing north of blackthorn except the cave

[viscid fossil]

Cave?

[minor karma]

the area with magikarps and dratinis

[molten loom]

Granite cave, regi spots, cave of origin,

[minor karma]

it's carved out of a mountain so i called it cave

[viscid fossil]

Oh I thought you meant the other cave
Which isn't a cave

[hexed frost]

You're right, forgot about Granite and Origin. I don't consider the regi spots to be caves.

Any ideas on how to spice them up? Or how they could better tie into the stories? Kinda like how ORAS added the stone painting in Granite cave

[molten loom]

Seafloor cavern

[weak trellis]

a lot of those are emerald/OR/AS additions with a single legendary/item and nothing else though

[full bison]

And there's my annual reminder that Altering Cave was a thing that existed. And that's pretty much all it ever was

Wonder if Frog has any ideas to make it actually interesting

[viscid fossil]

Rip berry juice

[hexed frost]

Half of those are spots for legendary pokemon and that's it... Kinda disappointing from Gamefreak imo, they could've had other mons

[full bison]

The mirage spots could be made into a fun little quest to get Hoopa whenever they're added, but I do really hope that doesn't become the only means of finding cross-gen legendary Pokemon

[hexed frost]

Same. Good thing Frog doesn't need to shoehorn them into bland locations (with cool names, good names Gamefreak)

[weak trellis]

the first of the four generational Legendary Parades yes

[sly jewel]

[analog pecan]

Are we expecting any other new pokemon to be added with the release of hoenn apart from the ones already announced?

[full bison]

Not as it stands. Until Frog says something like "we're adding even more Pokemon!" We have no reason to believe he will.

Besides, we're getting 61 Pokemon out of this already. That's noticeably more than the 50 we got last time

Plus there's the whole "letting spriters have the time they need to flesh out the new mons with custom sprites" aspect of it

Don't want them to have too much on their plates

[velvet root]

We dont know but I think he basically said maybe maybe not

[analog pecan]

We can only hope 🤷

[velvet root]

Hope for Goat

[full bison]

Personally I just don't wanna feel ungrateful over the fact that we've already got noticeably more new Pokemon in this sequel/update than we normally get. Even if 4 of them are Plusle, Minun, Volbeat, and Illumise

[weak trellis]

still 2 less pokemon with more variety than the nidos provide

[twilit reef]

https://tenor.com/view/volbeat-illumise-gif-26113183

[full bison]

Bug types have gotta have the biggest disparity between the best and worst lines. No other type from my perspective has as big a gap between "literally who is this" and "this is the most badass thing I've ever seen."

[prime dust]

fairy types had that when they first came out

since it was mostly just existing mons getting the type tacked onto them [or outright replacing their original typing]

but yeah, bug is the only type that has that 50/50 split with nothing really in the middle ground

[hexed frost]

Wait, does that mean the roster of mons from P.I.F. carry over to P.I.F. Hoenn? All of them?

I thought there were issues of sprite limit many times over, so how is that going to be solved?

[bleak summit]

I know there was a limit on the number of mons that could be added at one point, but not any longer

[hexed frost]

So there's no more limit on quantity?

[full bison]

Apparently there is a limit, but it's waaaay above what's feasible for us to run into

[hexed frost]

Interesting... Is it the integer limit? (~2.1 billion)

[prime dust]

no

I think Frog said that we could reasonably add another 100 Generations of Pokemon before we even get close to the limit we had prior to 6.0

the only limiting factor right now for Pokemon is anything up to and including Generation 7

Gens 8+ are a no go

1. due to the fact Frog would need to manually code abilities/moves for those mons [and last time he tried that it broke things]
2. frog doesn't really like anything in those generations

[trail hull]

honestly while it would be nice to add the gen 8+ pokemons but we still have 255 pokemon that still can be added (255 already excludes the hoeen mons)

[prime dust]

is that factoring in form nonsense or just pokemon as is

[trail hull]

form included

wait not it doesn't

basically I counted how many mon left including forms and substracted by our current total (so it cancels out) so unless future pokemons get more slots 255 is the max

[prime dust]

lol

just add on...math

thinking

6

wait

no

missed something

7

?

Hoopa Unbound
Sky Form Shaymin
Dog Zygarde
100% Zygarde
and the Therian forms of the Genies

[hushed axle]

-# frog, give me rotom forms

[prime dust]

already confirmed to not happen, same logic as aegislash

also I still forgot stuff

[viscid fossil]

Every furfrou trim and vivillion pattern

[prime dust]

those would count more in the sprite alt since i don't think they factor into stat/type differences

[hushed axle]

The only mention I can find from frog is here which doesn’t really say much #1279938076797440062 message

And the “sorting through sprites” I feel isn’t much of an issue. The sprites would just end up in #1052360360172199977 the same as all the Hoenn mons have

[prime dust]

given i think aegislash has a custom with every mon it is

even if not in both directions

but it would be more of a matter of separating out the sheild form sprites and the sword form sprites, and then needing to make new sprites to fill in the gaps that got janked up

[hushed axle]

I don’t really care about Aegislash sprite changing. I just want rotom forms

Which isn’t an in-battle thing

[prime dust]

it isn't, it is an out of battle shift [like melo can do]

the main issue here is then some fusion sprites that were made around the premise of the "form" would become null and void

or would just get shifted over to be a base for that form

meaning the same thing as aegislash, new sprites getting made to fill the gaps [might not be as many but]

[hushed axle]

Get shifted the same as the hoenn mons are now

[prime dust]

i'm also realizing a problem child in gen 4 with burmy

[hushed axle]

There is that lil shit too

[prime dust]

the problem isn't really the cloak difference

though that is a factor

[hushed axle]

7 different dex slots (including Mothim)

[prime dust]

i meant more of the fact of how we do gender evos

we have it sorted so gender doesn't play a role in the evolution of a mon

but...with burmy, gender might be needed

[gray vine]

i feel like sprite wise rotom forms dont add anything, especially sicne im sure plenty sprites already refrence the other forms so you really dont need to add it for sprites

[prime dust]

otherwise there is no control over what it evos into

[hushed axle]

It would either be needed, it be random which Evo, or find a new Evo method

Or something dumb like wurmple evo

[hushed axle]

I want the typings and stats

[gray vine]

mehh

[hushed axle]

And a big fat wailord lawnmower

[gray vine]

could already add that as a sprite for rotom x wailord

[hushed axle]

True, but I’d rather have a grass/water typing with better stats for it

[gray vine]

wonder if there is a refrence to Experiement 111 aka Mulch. probably not

[hushed axle]

That’d be neat

[viscid fossil]

And meowstic

[prime dust]

uhg yeah that too

gonna be weird because i wonder if that will cause a ripple effect of people wanting gender evos back in

not sure why they would, but given how nonsensical pokemon players can be, i wouldn't be surprised

[full bison]

We have most daytime evos gone except the Lycanrocs, I imagine Burmy and Meowstic will just be a uniformity exception just like them

[hushed axle]

Daytime could work for burmy tbh.

[earnest timber]

when will it be released

[prime dust]

Soon™️

[hushed axle]

-# but not that soon

[prime dust]

best guess is 6 months for the demo if everything stays on track

[prime dust]

so Morning for Wormadam and Night for Mothim

[hushed axle]

That was my thought

[gray vine]

on the 12th of april 2027 at 7.30pm

unless your name has a R in it

[earnest timber]

so two years from now

[gray vine]

then its a year later

[prime dust]

ok so Meowstic is going to be weird...the only difference between the male and female outside of looks and color, is hidden ability

[gray vine]

or your born on a day with a 2, then you gotta first do 3 flips before you get access

[prime dust]

not sure if that constitutes a form variation or if we can just merge them

so it has 2 main abilities and 2 hidden

[gray vine]

mewostic should be one mon

[rugged lodge]

Everyone here has an R in their name.

[gray vine]

you could just change the design via the sprite selection

[prime dust]

well that will be a future decision for Frog, but I'd be okay with 1 Meowstic is he can figure out how to make it so it has both hidden abilities

solve one problem another arises

Cherrim

we either follow in the footsteps of Castform and separate out the Sunshine Cherrim
or we actually make it a battle shift like necrozma that has a trigger [if we can tie it to weather properly]

though it would still have a dex slot for the sake of sprite related nonsense

[smoky raptor]

devs gonna add friendship and return?

[hushed axle]

Friendship exists, as does return

Friendship just isn’t used for evos

But it does exist and is tracked by the game code, return is just the only thing that references it

[molten loom]

Well, frustration also uses it

[hushed axle]

Oh yea, I forgot about frustration

[smoky raptor]

i love firendship gives me chills of real relation like my pet politas cat in real life xd

[prime dust]

it hates you with the passion of a thousand suns?

[silver wyvern]

whens it coming?

[prime dust]

Soon™️

best guess is maybe 6 months at the earliest for the demo

[warm skiff]

tomorrow

[craggy nexus]

hey guys im running a contest to redesign the hoen team grunts and if frogman like the results we can move on to redesigning the named npcs so jump in!
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1n1h_j3pJeqAoLi0jJ2_X5RDcdBwDFxuq?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Nlo2cdu8ExTt7BYnOasvKV4quXciEMFM?usp=drive_link

[tough jacinth]

Is there an eta on when my dad is coming home

[thin pawn]

When he finishes his job at the Petalburg gym

[lofty spindle]

Funfact: in gen 4 its ability was seperate from the formchange.

[full bison]

Every time I see Cherrim being discussed I'm just reminded of that time I thought the Cherubi line was getting added to the game after the first hint of the Pumpkaboo/Swirlix reveal stuff

I felt so smart for a few days, then I felt so dumb...

[alpine rune]

WOH

[atomic hornet]

I was trying to get these taken care of for the game so I definitely approve. However we'll also need OW sprites. Not sure if they're part of your contest, but I'm interested in how thos goes

I'll give you guys a little window in development, we're currently debating on new/redesigns/or a mix of both for aqua/magma as well as some other characters.

[junior tiger]

Isn't there a thread for this? Is there a way for normal people to give suggestions in it?

[atomic hornet]

Please keep me posted! I'd love to be more involved in this one, maybe judge. Either way I help select what goes in the game

[atomic hornet]

Maybe, tbh I'm not involved with event stuff so I don't know what's going on. I just happened to accidentally click in this channel and got really excited by what I saw c: I've been working on what this event is focusing on for over a week and it's been driving me nuts

I've been discussing some big things with Pory concerning event stuff, I'll reach out to him for this and see what's up. Maybe I can provide a list of needed npcs for the next phase of the contest after talking to Frog ( if turnout for this is good!)

[trail hull]

Hello paya it’s been a while , how are you doing ?

[hidden anvil]

If hoenn doesn't come with sinnoh map, it will be a huge missed opportunity.
That's why gold and silver were the GOAT

[prime dust]

it likely won't from the get go

Frog is more concerned about doing the Hoenn region

it also depends on how many maps the 2 regions have combined

[viscid fossil]

Sinnohoenn?

[prime dust]

because we obviously don't want an issue where we hit the map limit trying to also put Sinnoh in as well

[hidden anvil]

Why would there be a map limit? Unless they are using the same outdated rpg maker again that caused so many issues in the first place.

Either way. The two maps would make it legendary

[viscid fossil]

The game is on the same engine

All this game really does is delete the Kanto/Johto maps and replace them with hoenn ones

[quaint matrix]

Yeah we're basically just on Hoenn now

[prime dust]

we are on the same game engine, that way saves are compatible with each other

I don't know how many maps Hoenn has, and I don't know how many Sinnoh has

but if that combination goes over 999, then we can't have them both

at least not without some extra work involved which may make updating the game, and keeping it working complicated

[full bison]

Sinnoh has a lot of stuff to itself. I would not be surprised if adding Sinnoh would push the map limit too far.

[prime dust]

now to be fair, with frog having more experience under his belt, it is possible he will be able to indentify maps that are "useless" and not include them, making it so the area is in accessible

that will help free up some room

[craggy nexus]

Sure, i wasnt forcing people to do the ow sprites in the submision figured it was easier to make those after the design were picked, ill keep u up to date and u were already in my list of probable judges with kiwi and our amphibian overlord

[craggy nexus]

Comunicación problemas given that i spoke with frogman about doing this as a contest like a week ago too,

[hexed agate]

You contacted the wrong person for events

And we have a whole sleuth of judges who can help you with judging

[unborn umbra]

I'm confused, are we talking about designing a player outfit, or redesigning team outfits for the story NPCs?

[hexed agate]

It just needs to be visible to me

[craggy nexus]

It was less for running the event and more for seeing the chance of putting the winner in game

[craggy nexus]

The npcs, but it's very likely that the player also gets the uniforms at some point

[unborn umbra]

mh... I'm a bit out of the loop I think... I need to look at what we have for PIF2 story so far

[full bison]

An expansion on the Team Rocket quests where you can join either Team Aqua or Magma in their turf war would be really cool

[warm skiff]

I'm confused on this since I'm not sure why outfits are getting a redesign
is there a specific goal or type of look wanted? just curious

[hexed agate]

[craggy nexus]

Just cause the same reason oras and the other good remakes redesigned characters

[full bison]

Thinking about it further, if Volcanion ever gets added, that could be a silly little conclusion to a Team Aqua/Magma centric quest chain the same way Diancie was for Team Rocket. Both teams trying to claim a powerful creature they both view as the second embodiment of their preferred element

[feral bear]

Can I put Archie in a purple onesie

[unborn umbra]

Do we know if the story takes place X amount of year before the original like in PIF1?

[full bison]

We don't have any story details thus far

Thank you autocorrect for changing what I was typing into the wrong thing

[craggy nexus]

Mmm if1 takes place exactly like the story in kanto, so likely the same for the hoen part

It takes place 3years before the story in jhoto but the kanto part is the same

[prime dust]

ah yes, i too remember in Pokemon Blue fighting a 3 headed bird in Mt Ember [which didn't exist] that had 3 health bars

[craggy nexus]

Thats cause you didnt follow the manga router :v

[unborn umbra]

I feel like it can deff work and be interesting but

we need a caveat that says if none of the contest entries are good enough, then we keep the originals

we shouldn't try to force in something that looks meh just because

[prime dust]

wouldn't that kind of kill the point of the contest

[craggy nexus]

Ive said it before this first contest is a bit of a prove of concept if frogman says nah at the end then we stop here

[unborn umbra]

Personally I wouldn't make it a contest, but if we absolutely want one then I feel like we shouldn't compromise the game just because no one had a good enough idea

[full bison]

Do we even have any DS-esque sprites for RSE characters beyond the gym leaders as stands? Cause PIF has been pretty consistent on DS era sprites thus far, and it would be weird to have Team Aqua and Magma running around with GBA style sprites

[unborn umbra]

Like fusions can have more then 1 version of them, so people can just change them if they don't like existing ones, but a team outfit is pretty damn core

[craggy nexus]

If we dont make it a contest then it falls back to just one person doing them like how paya was...

[unborn umbra]

We can make it an open project that anyone can contribute to

[tacit saddle]

contests create competition and motivation

look at the current custom outfits channel

it's not active

we kinda need that competition and motivation

[warm skiff]

I do think IF spriters can make good designs but aqua and magma's teams have incredibly appealing outfit designs so far and just redesigning them with no goal means it'd just end up being similar in the end

I'm just not sure what to go from here since we have no story yet to go off of

[unborn umbra]

Have you tried making an outfit? I don't think you realize how much more work it is then making a fusion sprite...

[hexed agate]

Contests are also about timing, we're jam-packed until the end of June

[warm skiff]

there's literally a hat contest going on rn

[craggy nexus]

Then we have people arging they're should be Main it's easier if we tell from the start theres going to be a picked one

[warm skiff]

chat still dead as hell

[hexed agate]

It's not like it's an asset we're missing either, so we need a good reason

[unborn umbra]

I don't really mind making it a contest, as long as we acknowledge that if the winner isn't guaranteed to make it in the game

[full bison]

It could be considered less "redesigning" and more "translating their designs to the DS era style where they previously have been either GBA or 3DS styled prior."

[warm skiff]

but aren't there already DS era designs?

oras and stuff

[craggy nexus]

Well they don't have to be todo diferent anyway for example if i were to redesign the magma one i'll keep most of the oras but make the under partes black like the original

[tacit saddle]

either way i don't super mind if the og grunt designs are used just please use ORAS maxie and archie

[full bison]

ORAS is 3DS, not DS. Big difference.

[hexed agate]

And the hat is a simpler process

[trail hull]

same

I don't care about the rest as long as we have oras archie and maxie

[warm skiff]

yeah but I think that's more of a mod team discussion than with a contest

[hexed agate]

And we had a contest for CC last year

[tacit saddle]

my babygirl s

[hexed agate]

It was dire

[unborn umbra]

what about Masters EX's mdoel

[warm skiff]

tbh it wasn't that bad

there was at least 10 submissions that is better than nothing

[full bison]

I do think it would be a neat touch if Zinnia had a specific sprite for when she's acting as an undercover grunt. That is, if she's gonna be part of the story.

[tacit saddle]

I want her to be

[hexed agate]

It was a pretty small amount, especially considering it was tied into Mergemay and got 1 or 2 extensions

[warm skiff]

that sounded absolutely miserable

[craggy nexus]

Why a contest may produce more ideas, and then we will have mods and frogman be the judges

[warm skiff]

I made an outfit for that and to this day people still think it has a massive chest

[tacit saddle]

what outfit

[warm skiff]

fusion nerd

[tacit saddle]

OHH

it looks fine :(

[warm skiff]

I honestly thought that the plan for grunt outfits was "we fuse the outfits" because... infinite fusion

[tacit saddle]

Ok now kiss (holding the grunts)

[hexed agate]

It's too early in dev to think about that

[trail hull]

[hexed agate]

Even if we sprite all of ORAS from the ground up, there's nothing to attach it to (yet)

[trail hull]

speaking of oras

some of the water maps got shrunken down

[warm skiff]

also wait
do we need to make the SPRITES for this contest or just the concepts???

[trail hull]

I hope we get the smaller ones

[craggy nexus]

I can take concepts but sprites get extra points

[warm skiff]

I think maybe just focusing on concepts would end better so that if this goes through, there can be edits before sprites are made and so stuff doesn't have to be redone

• more submissions

[tacit saddle]

concept craze

but for outfits

Yeah

[warm skiff]

unrelated but NEVER do this concept outside of thsi contest because it'd just end up with a bunch of concept art but nobody willing to sprite it just want to get that out there in advance

[hexed agate]

What, concept art contest?

[warm skiff]

concept art for outfits

[hexed agate]

Never running it again

Down with Concept Art

[tacit saddle]

D:

[warm skiff]

sorry chat, killed concept craze with my bare hands

I think for outfits where it's one end goal, concept art is fine but for a bunch of designs all intended for the game, it'd just be a ton of work that'll never be done

[craggy nexus]

Well any way ill drop the drive for the grunt contest again https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Nlo2cdu8ExTt7BYnOasvKV4quXciEMFM

[full bison]

Many thanks to Discord's bizarre way of cropping images making me think that image had only 7 grunts instead of 8

[craggy nexus]

Extra points if your sprites have team aqua doing a dab to be the contrary of the team magma pose

[warm skiff]

would I be shot dead in chat if I redesigned courtney

[hexed agate]

Yes

[unborn umbra]

Courtney might actually be one of the rare ones that I like the original better then the ORAS design

[warm skiff]

her outfit causes me confusion

I swear, wasn't there a third team magma admin?

[craggy nexus]

Depends if @hushed axle likes it :v

[full bison]

Both teams only ever had 2 admins

[warm skiff]

damn, I rememebr an evil team had an admin that looked like a regular grunt

[full bison]

TBF, both versions of Tabitha are super different from each other that I could see the confusion there

[full bison]

Pretty sure you're just thinking about Tabitha's RSE design, which is radically different from in ORAS

[craggy nexus]

Both matt and Tabitha look like regular grunts in ruby a saphire

[warm skiff]

oooh

I kinda wanted to give them more "volcano" gear
and by that I just want to give one a gas mask

[craggy nexus]

See u have some good ideas

[warm skiff]

I think he needs an overall design just because he doesn't vibe well with the aesthetics? like idk his design feels aimless

[midnight wharf]

Y'know the Orre games are technically Gen 3

What I'm saying is a Mirror B. fight would be great

[clear lichen]

Umm, ackshually, it's Miror B.

[molten loom]

In German it's D. Queen

[clear lichen]

Anyways, he has used a lot of Ludiculo, a lot of Lombre, (Shadow) Sudowoodo, Loudred, Golduck, Armaldo, Exploud, (Shadow) Voltorb, (Shadow) Nosepass, Hoppip, Nuzleaf, Jumpluff, technically every Shadow Pokemon if I'm reading Bulbapedia right (though only if you suck and fail to snag them the first time), Shiftry, Electrode and Shadow Dragonite

To simplify, if you play well, he has the Ludicolo line, Exploud line, Golduck line, Armaldo line, Electrode line, Nosepass, Jumpluff line, Shiftry line and Shadow Dragonite

If you only use these 9, he has a team of 5 (I assume he's just gonna have a Ludicolo double fusion because c'mon)

[thin pawn]

The team magma/aqua characters got a massive glow up in ORAS

[hushed axle]

What’s wrong with my design?

[molten loom]

Or maybe you're thinking of zinnia who isn't an admin but was a major character in postgame oras that was dressed as a grunt for the main story

[thin pawn]

Zinnia my goat

Greatest battle theme for a fight that lasts exactly 30 seconds

[full bison]

That's the real reason she should be added. To give her a team that can put up a fight in a circumstance where we don't have the second most overpowered Pokemon to ever exist

[warm skiff]

THE JACKET. THE JACKET ANGERS ME

[hushed axle]

[fickle crest]

i love this jacket

[warm skiff]

look, its literally just

just make the jacket connect PLEASE

[thin pawn]

That pose can not be good for her back

[hushed axle]

B̵e̶i̷n̴g̴ ̷a̶n̵ ̶A̵I̸ ̵h̵a̸s̸ ̶i̸t̶’̷s̵ perks

Oop- sorry about that

[thin pawn]

[molten loom]

https://tenor.com/view/team-rocket-gif-17988538

Team rocket knows about back problems

[thin pawn]

The price for aura

[molten loom]

Look at all those walks, all of them have back problems

[thin pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokemon-origins-team-rocket-push-down-stairs-fall-down-stairs-gif-16788844

They're also experts at giving others back problems apparently

[elfin mica]

Hoenn should generally look more tropical than Kanto.
Different shade to the grass and trees will go a Long Way.

Different tree sprites period tbh

The game worlds should feel distinct. I'm sure the tile swap approach is tempting but it'd be a huge missed opportunity.

Maybe try to preserve more of the soul of Hoenn present in RSE than ORAS did. And I say this as someone who actually finds the original RSE graphics a bit ugly, so it's not my bias speaking.

[twilit reef]

I think that's a cool idea

Does knockoff work properly?

[twilit reef]

fortree is definitely the rainforest part of hoenn. But I see dewford and petalburg being different kinds of tropical

[hidden relic]

For a brief second with that shot, I thought he was falling up the stairs

[thin pawn]

Team rocket's power is unmatched

They can even reverse gravity

[viscid fossil]

You know, you can't fall down the stairs if you're already at the bottom.

[muted venture]

We need team rocket in hoenn

[full bison]

We've gotten plenty of Team Rocket in Infinite Fusion as is. We don't need more IMO.

Especially when we already have 2 evil teams

[real linden]

I wonder when it will come out

[muted venture]

Most likely at the end of the year

[molten loom]

doubt it, since if the first demo will just be up to slate port and its expected to take ~6 months

it will probably take much longer than just this year

[bold gyro]

Do you guys think PIF hoenn will include Gen 4 content like how PIF did with johto?

Yeah PIF hoenn and sinnoh seems a lot far fetched

[midnight wharf]

I think you mean Farfetch'd

[bold gyro]

💀

[full bison]

Sinnoh has too much of an individual story for it to just be relegated to another region's postgame IMO

Probably the fourth best story of any mainline Pokemon game, I'd go so far as to say

[rancid nymph]

What are the top 3?

[full bison]

BW, SV, and SuMo

[patent kayak]

Realease date?

[full bison]

Indeterminate

Best estimate is a playable demo in ~6 months

[twilit reef]

Seeing sumo on a map would be cool

[junior tiger]

If it's just pure story SV win because they have so much more and it's so complex and well-implemented. If you throw in glitches and bugs, BW win for sure. And SM were absolutely number 3

[gray vine]

story is def sumo

[uncut quest]

Team rocket generally was only kanto johto after that it was the regions teams

[full bison]

Team Rocket are also kinda boring as antagonists in the games. At least until USUM.

How many people hear the name "Archer" in regards to Pokemon antagonists without thinking either "Who?" Or "You mean Archie?"

[uncut quest]

LOL true

tbf the team i liked most was team aqua and team magma, best antagonists imo besides N

the God complex antagonists cough Cyrus cough was a bit bordeline insanity

[sour isle]

I wonder how the antagonists of the hoenn games are going to change

[prime dust]

outside of their teams, probably not that much

[sour isle]

Maybe we could get a team Sky that worships Rayquaza

[prime dust]

team sky ironically prob worships shaymin

[sour isle]

A new region of islands floating in the sky

[sour isle]

LoL true 🤣

Maybe they want to uplift all the land into the sky

They start out as neutral, and either team up with team magma or Aqua

[atomic hornet]

Pokebio! I'm sorry I didn't see this, I wasn't ignoring you! I'm okay, overwhelmed how about you?

Between sprite errors and hoenn dev work, it's hard to juggle

[deft shuttle]

is there a way to support the project? like a donation or such?

[atomic hornet]

I'm touched at the thought, but unfortunately we can't accept any kind of donations at the risk of being shut down. Even if we were to set up donations being vague as possible and without mentioning the IP whatsoever, it would still put the whole project at risk. All of our staff are volunteers and we do this because we love the game and the community 🙂

[deft shuttle]

not even something like kofi? I mean, if any of you have one, I could just buy you a coffee as a small thanks

[muted venture]

Yeah 6 months, that's the end of the year

[atomic hornet]

Even that is risky as far as I know none of us have one

Or at least don't advertise it on the server at all

[deft shuttle]

sucks, but yeah, i understand you guys keeping it safe even if the risk is at the smallest minimum

don't want another Uranium incident

[atomic hornet]

Yeah exactly. The thought means a lot though!

[trail hull]

No problem, I’m doing fibr thank you 😊

[hushed axle]

Wait, I’m not being paid?

[atomic hornet]

Sorry to break it to you, but if you're lucky you get paid in friendship

[hushed axle]

We’re not friends already?

[atomic hornet]

I was hoping we were but didn't want to presume

[junior tiger]

Rose was the same

[junior tiger]

According to Mikey it's Rayquaza. Team Night Sky worships shiny Rayquaza

[junior tiger]

No they want to expand the sky and lay waste to the land and the sea

[rain locust]

naw ive been saying it
team glacier that wants to cover the world in hail

[hexed agate]

Team Dust is going to lightly cover all your belongings in soot

[rain locust]

oh no ! what an inconvenience

[sour isle]

Wait that could be cool

[tacit saddle]

:(

[random dragon]

Or sand

[jaunty crow]

I hope pachirisu makes it in

[real linden]

Maybe

Imagine if the battle frontier was also used for a rainbow rocket story

[outer matrix]

Has it been discussed yet how spinda's spots would work with fusions?

[full bison]

Not concerning spriters with the spots and letting spriters place them wherever

It's not such an amazing gimmick that anyone will force anyone else to make 4 billion individual sprites for one fusion

[hushed axle]

Who says we won’t?

[fickle crest]

[lofty spindle]

Finally putting that new fusion generating code to the test.

[deft obsidian]

I wonder if they add anything new this year. I mean we got lot new pokemon

[prime dust]

i think more new mons besides the completion of the hoenn dex is off the table for this year

which is reasonably fair

given we're getting 64 pokemon

which is even more than the 6.0 update for PIF

[still halo]

Do we know if the new hoenn pokemon in will affect original IF Randomizers or are they gonna be almost strictly backport only?

[gray vine]

why would it change

adding hoenn mons would work the same way as adding any other mon before

[prime dust]

frog already confirmed they will be available in randomizer

[rugged lodge]

It occurs to me that the criteria for filling the Pokedex is about to get quite a bit more difficult.

[full bison]

People will have to farm the randomizer for a bit for all the Hoenn exclusives, then go into NG+ with all them in a non-randomized save

[prime dust]

not really

from the way it sounds, the saves are compatible between the games

so you could get whatever you need from PIF Hoenn, beat the E4, save
move the save to PIF, do NG+ and boom; you have the base forms of the mons at level 5 in your box

[full bison]

That's only for when the game is finished tho

[prime dust]

but if you don't already have the role and debug, now is the perfect time to get it

before it becomes more complicated

[full bison]

When the demo comes out and the Hoenn mons are added, there's still plenty of Mons that the progression up to Slateport doesn't reach, such as Claydol

So until the Hoenn game is completed, I don't see how anybody is supposed to get Pokemon like Claydol, Castform, Numel, etc without randomizer

[hexed agate]

We got double what we got last year

https://tenor.com/view/mistwol-cat-his-greed-will-consume-him-eating-silly-gif-14271929065765266047

[full bison]

14 more Pokemon than normal and we still have people asking for more...

[steel parcel]

Moar pokeymans

[hushed axle]

14? It’s more than that. December gave us 31, now we’re getting 64

[arctic glacier]

Naw, we need to start subtracting mons now

[rain locust]

were removing ambipom

get that fraud outta here

[slim otter]

We don't have anywhere to put the discarded ones, though.
We'll have to start fusing two Pokémon into one to save space.
Oh-

[full bison]

I'm down for Volbeat and Illumise just being one Pokemon. They're barely distinguishable anyway

[thorny remnant]

let's fuse Plusle and Minun together and get a short circuit Pokémon!

[weak trellis]

imo if we're condensing volbeat and illumise let's also condense the nidos while we're at lol

(they deserve it far more)

[fossil pecan]

Nidoqueer it is then

[junior tiger]

And the pupa, Silcoon and Cascoon

[alpine rune]

Just remove all the legendaries

[rain locust]

https://tenor.com/view/reddit-slot-machine-slot-machine-reddit-reddit-gold-reddit-upvote-gif-9984964009619703055

[inland jewel]

I don't get why people want to have less pokemon

its not going to magically open a slot for another mon

its just going to reduce the overall mons coming in the update

Devs ain't going to decide. "Yeah just because we won't have plusle this update we'll add in Sigilyph"

[rain locust]

I disagree.

[zealous plover]

I disagree as well

Chickorita does not deserve to be in anything

[twilit reef]

idk what the limitations of the game itself are. but it would be just a waste of sprites to remove any

[inland jewel]

Space for pokemonwise- no limit, or at least one we won't hit with the current way the dev does things

he has outright said that we need 100 generations of pokemon to fill in the limit

[rain locust]

lets bring back dexit 2 but specifically for mons like shuckle and ambipom and ninjask

[next flare]

You can’t dexit Ninjask

Not from its original generation

[rain locust]

yeah huh

only evolve into shed

[inland jewel]

Dev is never going to remove pokemon

[weak trellis]

reminds me of when XY came out when people were ragging on whatever was in the spot after sylveon because they wanted another eeveelution

what mon was that again uuuh dedenne? let me check

--> hawlucha on one side and aurorus on the other. erm actually on second thought I could have sworn that was dedenne there rofl

also ngl if expert mode put shuckle in gym 1 I'd be all for yeeting it but at least expert devs got more creative than that lol

[twilit reef]

i would like shroomish and nincada dissapearing from early pools

in an expert mode

[next flare]

What’s being referred to are the Pokémon that won’t be available in Hoenn encounter tables

We already know that some of these Hoenn mons won’t be added to the original PIF’s encounter lists

Some mons will only be obtainable through trading with the other game

[rain locust]

ill challenge ceo john dev to a 1v1 and if i win i remove a mon

[clear lichen]

Remove specifically Rattata, and have all instances of Rattata be inconspicuously replaced by Raticate

[rain locust]

🤯

[twilit reef]

dont do that

[clear lichen]

Your Rattatas will inconspicuously turn into Raticates too don't worry

[inland jewel]

I mean when i read the conversation, they were they just they were saying to fuse the Nidos into one slot, Plusle and Minum into one slot as well

so instead of having fusions for Nidoqueen or Nidoking, a you'd find a pokemon that would just be Nido, and it would use sprites for either

[rain locust]

nidoruler

[inland jewel]

to which I pointed out, removing a mon from the dex won't magically open up a new slot for another mon to be added

[twilit reef]

the sad thing is plusle in minun are way less unique than any other partner pokemon

[inland jewel]

I mean, they would make amazing head fusions since you can go all out with Positive and negative, its the body fusions for them that would suck

[twilit reef]

i meant like from a gameplay perspective. they have identical movepools. slightly different stats

volbeat and illumise are way cooler imo

[inland jewel]

i mean sure, that isn't going to stop people from using them

like i kid you not, I saw in the Legends ZA comments that someone was stoked that Pansear was finally in a Switch game

[zealous plover]

Pokemon is a special kind of game were every single character is the mascot

guess we just found the one dude who thinks the greatest mascot is pansear

[inland jewel]

yee, for me mine is Purugly and Watchog

both of them not in a mainline game

[twilit reef]

they also give pokemon access to new moves when they get added to a gen

[inland jewel]

my one wish is that ZA has Glameow line migrate to the region

[junior tiger]

https://tenor.com/view/wheel-of-fortune-wheel-game-show-wof-pat-sajak-gif-14428896266004770124

[junior tiger]

They have entirely different, uniquely useful, potentially powerful Hidden Abilities, so they aren't identical, but they're very close

[junior tiger]

It's not "having less Pokémon" for any reason other than the scope and enforcement of sprites for fusion. How will you enforce Plusle/Minun bodies? Silcoon/Cascoon bodies? If you have two Pokémon that don't have any immediately distinguishable traits as a base, fusing for them as a body is going to be hell. Even in cases where colors may be different, it's still irrelevant for body fusions.
Even if you don't remove them as a numerical Dex entry, you could basically combine them into one for the purposes of fusing, either just for bodies, or heads and bodies both if it's easier to enforce.

[summer apex]

Consider the fact that Lycanroc's dusk form wasn't added because it was too similar in shape to the midday form

... and now look at how similarly shaped plusle and minun are