pif-hoenn-discussion

[brittle crow]

well it's all an eventuality anyway

come 3 years all the mons might b added

then even if all the mons are at 100%, it still wont b even

[hot hamlet]

The year is 2045.
All mons are finally added.
Frog announces he’ll finally add Gens 8-9
People are clamoring for Gen 15 mons

[fallen loom]

Add in:
Cutiefly line
Spheal line
Snover line
Pancham line
Croagunk line
Pachirisu
Vikavolt line
Tynamo line
Skorupi line

[brittle crow]

so in the end it just came back to mons you want added to the game...

[brittle crow]

this is just a separate thing but at that point

[fallen loom]

adds in more Fairy, Ice, Fighting, Dark and Electric

[brittle crow]

id be fine with fakemons...

[fallen loom]

I picked mon that add in types we need more of...

Cutiefly is Bug and Fairy

Drapion is Dark and Poison

Vikavolt is Bug and Electric

adds in more of the 3 of those types we need more of

[brittle crow]

[fallen loom]

next year Tropius, Spheal and Bounsweet are getting in though

[silent acorn]

Oh amazing Tropius got announced

[fallen loom]

eventually

[trail hull]

we need the next batch to have allm remaining dragon and ghost type

[hot hamlet]

I’ll accept banana dino only if we get ice cream at the same time. And if someone can make a banana split fusion.

[west sonnet]

technically you can with slurpuff

[hot hamlet]

But bananas+ice cream makes more sense.
Slurpuff would be for banana bread

Or cake

[full bison]

Let's just have an update that adds every remaining Ice type, it's not like it would take up that much space

[next flare]

IFRC, the only remaining ghosts are Marshadow and Blacephalon

[full bison]

We don't have that many dragons left either IIRC. Just Turtonator, Druddigon, Drampa, and Dragalge I think

And Guzzlord and Naganadel

And Zygarde

So a bit more than I thought but still not that much

[wide merlin]

miensho and gothitelle ?

[wide merlin]

dragalge can to be interessting for this type and design

[west sonnet]

NGL if this game stops at gen 7 I’d want the ultra beasts to be the last addition

[marble meadow]

well i hope malamar for next year

the only fashion side off mons are gothitelle and furfrou the kalos do one

[trail hull]

so we have a bit more then 300 mons left so assumin we get 30 mons a year , every year it would take us around 11 to 12 years

[opaque flare]

last year it was 50, this year 30

actually 31 yet

[trail hull]

I wonder how many we'll get next time

[opaque flare]

at least 9, i assume another gen starters will be added

[trail hull]

yeah

gen 7 are next

[marble meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/rowlet-pokemon-hello-greetings-good-day-gif-24065083

i will do a round mon only run if spheal and rowlet are in if

[velvet root]

Man I should do a Sprite for Rowlet fr

[full bison]

Rowlet will probably blow up the sprite channels once it's added. Cute and easy to work with, sounds like a spriters dream

[glass patio]

the borb

https://tenor.com/view/rowlet-decideye-roll-pokemon-gif-24868731

[novel hill]

Can someone please explain why there is new pokemon in the files with custom sprites but yet i cant use that in-game?

[velvet root]

Why not

[marble meadow]

rowlet decidueye just rowlet in the decidueye costume

[inland jewel]

pokemon is released for beta, not released for public

[hot hamlet]

Roumd?

[alpine rune]

Oh no reveals?

Ig thwy really stop at 501

[velvet root]

Man thats sad

[rancid nymph]

Frog said he was only adding stuff till 500. So really we got a bonus

[velvet root]

Welp than I reveal my new Baby Polar Foxes
I could need a name for this girl and boy

[west sonnet]

for now

[molten loom]

yeah frog couldn't resist another troll fish

[fathom ridge]

john and johnesse

[rancid nymph]

(Though both Diance and Luvdisc can jump off a microwave IMO)

[velvet root]

You were the first so welp... John and Johnesse it is

[fathom ridge]

I mean if you dont like it you can just use another name

[next flare]

Baby Polar Fox for IF when?

[rancid nymph]

When Frog decides to add Alolan forms to the game

[hot hamlet]

Troll fish for the 501st tho

https://tenor.com/view/captainrex-starwars-clonewars-clones-salute-gif-18021804

[velvet root]

True

[bitter comet]

I need the round creature

[viscid fossil]

[bitter comet]

That emoji hurts my eyes

[prime dust]

good

let it burn into your very soul

[proud lion]

We need the monkeys

[opaque flare]

[outer matrix]

If the monkeys were added as another bonus, then the final total will be 507 (which is uneven again )

[strong zealot]

Just got my first shiny in infinite fusion (didn't know he was a shiny till he evoed)

[full bison]

what I'm hearing is that we need to add a certain group of 11 Pokemon to get an even number

[outer matrix]

~~ 518 with monkeys () or 512 with no monkeys ( ) ~~

[viscid fossil]

That's a power of 2

I like it

[autumn radish]

The Lurantis.

[marble stump]

am i rly like the only morelull lover

[bitter comet]

Yes

[marble stump]

its my fav mon :(

[quaint matrix]

FURFROU NATION

WHERE ARE YOU AT

https://tenor.com/view/funky-cat-gc-furfrou-gif-13314174842950332061

[marble stump]

i lub furfrou

its i think dabubunte hair style is amazing

i dont remember exctly what its called

[quaint matrix]

Debutante

[marble stump]

ty :)

[dusty arrow]

fun fact

quetzalcoatlus (largest pterosaur) could gallop

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-undertale-yellow-mo-bye-bye-chat-gif-4452685211613921490

[marble stump]

i thought that was a birb like animal

[dusty arrow]

flying reptile

[full bison]

Quetzalcoatlus really feels like an animal that a kid would come up with when they're trying to think of the coolest animal possible. All it was missing was the ability to shoot lasers.

[hot hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/vanillite-sorbebe-vanipeti-pokemon-gif-19575051

I’ve an hour before my next flight. What’s up people?

[proud lion]

I like the Strength Sapper

[inland jewel]

i love him

[proud lion]

https://tenor.com/view/shiinotic-pokemon-gif-25440691

[marble stump]

i dont like shiinotic as much

[hot hamlet]

I don’t like Shiinotic’s look. Too alien. I love Morelull though. Something about the small and minimalistic makes it cuter

[inland jewel]

Shiinotic is cute though

big poofy hat and those souless eyes

[hot hamlet]

And thanks to a meme I cannot unsee… “the Jigglypuff on its crotch”

[inland jewel]

that looks more like a milcery

but its a fungus mon so makes sense

[molten latch]

BTW

[hot hamlet]

Tbf this was before Milcery existed

[molten latch]

Is this going

Why is this channel active?

[hot hamlet]

Because shut up

It stays active unless someone reminds people

[molten latch]

Huh?

[hot hamlet]

https://tenor.com/view/shhh-shush-quiet-gif-8316632

[inland jewel]

normally it exists around a month after the update is released

[molten latch]

Ok

[inland jewel]

as a spoiler zone

afte amonth enough time has passed then its okay to do stuff in regular channels

[molten latch]

K

Unless its a plot twist and a brand new pokemon got announce one last time.

[marble stump]

alomamola because why not

[full bison]

Alomomola would be neat. Another Regenerator min would be cool, and this one has an actual HP stat as well

[inland jewel]

and has a useable defense too

[marble stump]

but morelull is cute mushroom

[dusty arrow]

i agree with this statement

also fun fact

dunkleosteus had a 80,000 psi bite force

for comparison

a hippo is around 1800 psi

[halcyon dragon]

Fun fact!

Its currently heavily theorized that Triceratops had Quills!

[clear lichen]

I like how Shiinotic stares into my soul like it's about to kill me in the most heinous way possible

Because that's literally what Shiinotic does

It lures people into forests and fucking slaughters them

Yes I'm commenting on a conversation that ended 2 hours ago

Alo is like THE Competitive Only pick

Nobody I know actually likes Alomomola

Either you dislike/are neutral towards it because of its design

Or you fucking hate fighting it in Competitive

And hate it as a result

[hexed agate]

Luvdisc EX is great

I actually do really like its design, since it's symmetrical

[acoustic compass]

A random question, if you add any pokemon from generation 8, sticking with the pokemon introduced in Sword & Shield for this hypothetical, whitch one would it be?

[west sonnet]

Ignoring that gen 8/9 Don’t exist?

[west sonnet]

I think it’s fun

[acoustic compass]

No, it's because there's no plans to add any pokemon that was introduced gen 8 & beyond.

Hints why I'd said Hypothetically speaking.

[west sonnet]

In which case Cursola

[acoustic compass]

My picks would be the Starters....

But that feels like cheating, so I'll add a tie between the Sizzilepede line & the Snom line

[west sonnet]

I do love the snom line

A Lot

[trail hull]

this batch we stopped at 30 because 500 was a special number but next t ime since we don't have any special numbers , I hope we get a lil bit more ten 30 mons

[deft obsidian]

99 new pokemon to hit 600

Tbf I think they won't add any new pokemon

[humble lance]

im wondering if we'll get more pokemon in december or if thats all for this year

[velvet root]

Nah we stopped at 501

[trail hull]

Because of fishmas

[velvet root]

And why didnt we get shit for Goatober

[trail hull]

the staff hate gogoat

so the plan is to bribe as many of them before next time

[humble lance]

we'll prob get skiddo next year
most of the non pif mons with a lot in their folders got added this time so just gotta wait

hoping for skiddo line and spheal line cuz those are the next largest folders

[trail hull]

yeah luvdisc had a lot of fuisons before releasing (just 4 and I ,made them all )

[humble lance]

i mean slurpuff and torkoal and diancie

[trail hull]

oh yeah I'll have to revamp this one

[trail hull]

I know

also speaking of non-if my folder shrunk a lot. I had 2 lines of fusions but now only one line

[mental pilot]

All of those fusion combined names then there is just “golett”

[trail hull]

yes go(goat)+(dig)lett

[mental pilot]

It’s funni cuz golett alr exists

[trail hull]

yes

[velvet root]

Ik qwq

[velvet root]

Exactly why it is stupid that Skiddo didnt get in

[humble lance]

[velvet root]

I also think that was confirmed at one point too but im unsure

[velvet root]

Yeah i hope
Or Gogoat got Waluigis smash bros curse

[rotund nymph]

where is fusion sprites in folders

[trail hull]

why are you asking me this ?

[rotund nymph]

i want to know how to find them

[trail hull]

the fusion I showed in the screen shot are't in the game those are from my persona fusion folder (but this one in particular is for non-if)

[quaint matrix]

Guys

I'm just saying

Normal/Ghost Diggersby with Huge Power

https://tenor.com/view/diggersby-chumley-chalkfunny-gif-23591631

[ember bear]

y that typing specifically

ground would probably be better anyway

[quaint matrix]

Azumarill's stats are better when it's Water type from the calcs

So following that I think Diggersby's stats are better when it's Normal type

[ember bear]

meh

might as well just stick with azumarill or get medicham

normal's pretty mid

[grave jolt]

Only thing Diggersby really has over Azumaril is a far higher speed (78 vs 50)

Other than speed and HP, the two have nearly identical stat spreads.

[velvet root]

Ngl all options have some awesome niches
Except Marshadow

Now I wanna sprite the Diggersby line

Maybe after the dentist

[quaint matrix]

All options?

[velvet root]

Im sure about that

[quaint matrix]

I might be slow cuz it's late at night but what do you mean with all options

[velvet root]

All Pokemon that arent in Infinite fusion
Except Marshadow

[quaint matrix]

Oh you mean in general

[velvet root]

Yes

[quaint matrix]

I thought it was like "wait Huge Power is sick but idk if Normal-type Diggersby can provide much to any other type besides Ghost"

[velvet root]

I mean Water/Ground with Huge Power is sick too

[quaint matrix]

Yeah but that's on Azumarill with Ground-type more than Diggersby with Water-type lol

[velvet root]

Eh Doesnt Diggersby actually have better body stats than Azu

[quaint matrix]

I guess you can make arguments for either but I feel like he'd still be better as head like Azumarill

[velvet root]

Yeah a little better

[quaint matrix]

Yeah you do got a lot more Speed

[velvet root]

Azu is better for head imo

[quaint matrix]

But the attack is still stinky either way you want it still as head

[velvet root]

Tbf Ground is a 10/10 type

[quaint matrix]

For STAB/aggressive purposes it's aces

Defensive wise eeeeehhhhhhhh

[fallen loom]

Medicham?

[rain locust]

No way

[fallen loom]

all that for a Normal Flying type

[west sonnet]

Dig + Marowak + Thicc Club

[rain locust]

azumarill better for that

[west sonnet]

I don’t know diggersby’s stats well enough

[rain locust]

its just similar to azumarill besides some spe

but azumarill gives better type

[ripe wigeon]

It's a good number; it gives us hope.

[silent acorn]

Man that sunday reveal was good

Glad tropius made it

[proud lion]

Shocked that Rellor made it in as well

[silent acorn]

Yeah i didn't think that update would bring all the remaining mons, shame others didn't see it

[obtuse silo]

Hello, is there a list of the new pokemons?

[full bison]

Check the pins

[bronze barn]

Poipole too.

[tacit saddle]

so glad furfrou made it in

[carmine iris]

not cool big chungus

two questions

1. are those new pokemon added from pins not from a vote
   2.if 1 is yes, then are new pokemon added randomly decided?

[tacit saddle]

i believe that sometimes its based on popularity and sometiems its What Frog Decides

[trail hull]

aside from the community additions they were mostly staff voted

[unique flame]

it mostly frog

and the staff

[spiral musk]

kommo-o line got added though the community vote, lurantis line by the event winners vote, carbink by event winner raffle, the others were picked by frog

[stoic canopy]

Some times we hold raffles for people who win events/sprite contests. That’s how carbrink got in.

[unique flame]

which i like because a good pick is not always the public choice a good pick is one that is goo to sprite AND to play in a run

[trail hull]

personally I do'nt really care if the mon has garbage stats , has lon gas it has good fusion potential it's good addition

but everyone here as a different point of view

[full bison]

I like to evaluate what Pokemon would be cool to add by a combination of aesthetics and gameplay addition. Stuff like Mienshao falls into both categories quite nicely.

[rain locust]

bad stats usually means bad fusion potential

[carmine iris]

thanks for responses guys

[west sonnet]

[unique flame]

[stoic canopy]

That or your a fish that looks funny, if it happens twice then it’s a rule now guys. Heart fish and lips fish are a rule now. A fishy rule, if you will.

[molten loom]

You're forgetting about stunfisk being the final mon when there was a limit to the mons that could be added

[stoic canopy]

Forgot about him, I guess what I’m saying is get ready for butterfly fish next year

[molten loom]

Frog loves adding fish for the last mon of an update

[unique flame]

three times

stunkfish, bruxish and now luvdisc

[proud lion]

List of the funni troll addons

If going by those rules

[deft obsidian]

Pokemon infinite fish 🗣️

[unique flame]

i think this one its the last one that would actually be funny

[proud lion]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-gas-station-you-know-what-that-means-gif-1113666392679473186

[proud lion]

Frogman thinks its neat tho

[stoic canopy]

We can take out wisiwashi and probably Basculin, people actually want them.

[unique flame]

The other ones are too cool tô be a joke

[unique flame]

We all know the next Last mon now

I remember people hated him só much in release

He kinda grew on me

[unique flame]

Noooo frog dont say that

[next flare]

Challenge accepted

Make Frog like the monkeys

[unique flame]

Poor monkeys simisear is Just infernape from ny

[marble stump]

omg but simisear

[stoic canopy]

Damn according to the rule I just now made up, that increases the chances of the monkeys getting in by at least 874 fold. After all, what is more fish then monkeys?

[steel meadow]

you forgot simispark

[unique flame]

We could make a poll and choose a monkey tô come while the rest is publicaly executed

[twin phoenix]

So far the troll fish that are revealed last aren't ones that evolve (before gen 8), so I think Phione or Basculin will be next. Alomomola is too similar in appearance to Luvdisc.

[unique flame]

And actually have decent stats

[steel meadow]

i stand corrected

imagine phione without manaphy

i think i would explode

[twin phoenix]

Oh yeah, Wishiwashi too.

[next flare]

Phione and Manaphy were always a package deal in the votes right?

[marble stump]

i luve wishiwashi

and i think they wont mind the form change as minior was added

[twin phoenix]

I never voted for a legendary because I'm newer, so Idk. ><

[steel meadow]

they mustve been

i cant imagine them not being together as its a evo line

its like having cosmog without lunala and solgaleo

[twin phoenix]

Btw, why is there no dusk Lycanroc?

[steel meadow]

[next flare]

It was cut for being too similar to midday as a fusion body

[unique flame]

No, He is too similar in shape too midday form

[twin phoenix]

[steel meadow]

that feels weird

[twin phoenix]

Dang you Game Freak~

[steel meadow]

dont we have alot of similar bodies already?

[next flare]

And the concept was too easy to just label as a fusion of Midday and Midnight

Like Kyurem-White

Or megas as self-fusions

[trail hull]

if we never get gen 8 and beyonf it would be interesting to get regional variants

[velvet root]

How does he dare to say Goated but ignore Gogoat qwq

[next flare]

Are you really willing to make your digletts all over again?

[twin phoenix]

I'm guessing that's also why Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings Necrozma will never be a thing.

[trail hull]

Yes I just add hair for the bodies and add hair and recolor the ground for heads

[next flare]

The dirt is a completely different style

[trail hull]

sssh

[proud lion]

Found on Google

[marble stump]

lunala better

[proud lion]

Hoping for movie/anime block sessions

[next flare]

Paste and recolor

[proud lion]

What Movie would you like to play on the next movie night? Even if it doesn’t amount to a new addition?

[stoic canopy]

Yea at most that looks like someone touched up an atuo fusion.

[full bison]

Why is Manaphy there? It's a really solid Mon, and it gives Tail Glow. I'd say Phione fits the category of troll Mon better

[opaque flare]

cant add manaphy without phione actually

[rain locust]

manaphy troll mon would be incredible so terrible please dont add it frogman ‼️

[acoustic compass]

Yeah you can breed a Manaphy with a Ditto to get a Phionie egg

[full bison]

Tail Glow with all 100 stats sounds like the setup to some really degenerate setup sweepers I'll be real here. Wouldn't be as scary as Xurkitree, but still.

[bronze barn]

and simipark

[velvet root]

65% lets gooooo

[wide merlin]

65% for what ? the number of custom sprite for any fusion ?

[opaque flare]

the number of pokemon the game has added

up to gen7

[velvet root]

There is a role called Spritedex completionist
If I made a fusion for each mon in the game I get the role

[opaque flare]

pokedex completionist is the role where you catch all unfused pokemon in the game

what you mean is the spritedex completionist

[velvet root]

Sorry I mix them up

[trail hull]

I'm getting close too*

[trail hull]

also congrats

and you probably would have already finished if gogoat was in the game

[velvet root]

Nah I wouldnt

[trail hull]

oh really

[velvet root]

But I likely would have like 15 more Fusions

[trail hull]

oh ok

[proud lion]

I got all for BOTH heads and bodies

[velvet root]

These would be the ones with Skiddo

And the Gogoat

okay 13

How many non if would it be in the end tho?

And those

[full bison]

That Croagunk/Goomy could be an emote

[velvet root]

Ngl I wish

So I do random until I find a fusion that is fully not im the chart for me

[bitter comet]

Man, exactly how many sprites have you made?

[velvet root]

idk with non IF I think 400~

[bitter comet]

Damn

[bitter comet]

Can I suggest doing a Malamar Sprite perhaps to add one more to the pile?

[deft obsidian]

You forgot snivy scarfty

[velvet root]

I have a Scrafty already

[velvet root]

https://tenor.com/view/maybe-gif-12591689151970696880

[velvet root]

Yeah I knew im not good with Malamar

[bitter comet]

Hey, I personally like it. It captures the Eldritch energy in my opinion

[velvet root]

Maybe if it gets in and gets a new palette

[wide merlin]

nice fusion with ariados but a malamar with golurk can give a awesome eldritch fusion

[velvet root]

I think I would rework it a lil if it gets in
Only part I like is the butt

[velvet root]

Atleast I got a Idea for a Ariados

[outer matrix]

maybe the antennae on the back could be turned into cattails?

[velvet root]

True
Tbh I just didnt find a better picture of a log standing in a angle

I also should make a Goat again

Goats

https://tenor.com/view/gogoat-pokemon-prajwal-gif-20189597

[agile olive]

haha I once made a planet zoo zoo with only flamingos, it was fun

[proud lion]

#1305650964161892353

[velvet root]

Elgyem!!!!
10/10 mon!

[outer matrix]

Despite some Pokémon in the same generation, Gen 5 has lots of interesting Pokémon to get fusion ideas

[dusty arrow]

just saw this

i saw the terapagos ability page and was like

"hey wait a minute"

[eager jungle]

time to cook with minior

[brittle crow]

praise

[eager jungle]

[spiral musk]

https://tenor.com/view/good-morning-light-sunshine-so-bright-gif-7472116

[fallen loom]

Dark Types not in the game yet:
Poochyena + Mightyena
Purrloin + Liepard
Vullaby + Mandibuzz
Inkay + Malamar
Yveltal
Guzzlord
Nuzleaf + Shiftry
Crawdaunt
Stunky + Stuntank
Drapion
Pangoro
Incineroar

[clear lichen]

Something something "Korega... Requiem... Da" something something "Wha-"

Idk it's been like 50 thousand years since I've had any sort of activity in a jojo's bizarre adventure related fanbase

[full bison]

I stopped paying attention to JoJo after Netflix screwed up the release of Stone Ocean

I don't even think SBR is getting adapted right now

[clear lichen]

I saw someone making a clip of what MiH would look like in real time

It's both ridiculously fast and feels way too slow still

I've definitely wanted to make a Funny Valentine joke a few times in this server

But I can't remember if I did, if anyone caught it, or when

[hot hamlet]

Search bar. Type “from: legenddragon800” and type exactly what the joke was. See if Discord highlights it.

[clear lichen]

I cant remember what the joke was

He's a Jojo character there's like 50 fucking jokes

[hot hamlet]

15 results. Only one from you in the whole server

So no, you never made this joke

[hidden relic]

🤯

🤯

[clear lichen]

You don't understand I could've just quoted the entire fucking napkins quote

(I didn't I checked but you get what I mean)

(I wouldn't necessarily have to name him directly to reference him)

Anyways, someone in General said they should add Dondozo as a joke fish and literally the only later gen Pokemon forever

But they failed to consider that Donbozo is actually peak

And thus wouldn't be a troll

If we get even 1 good later gen Pokemon I'm taking that as a W

Since the chances are basically 0

Whiscash is really unfortunate

It's a decent Pokemon but it gets kinda overshadowed by other Water/Grounds and the other catfish Pokemon

I'd still say it's a B tier though

[full bison]

Honestly there's not a lot of Pokemon from gens 8-9 that I would call troll picks. Maybe Spidops and Eiscue, but that's it

Either that or my joke suggestion of a single Iron Jugulis holding a sign that says "I'm the only Gen 8-9 Pokemon that's getting added, stop asking me about it.'

[clear lichen]

Thankfully Flutter Mane is (somehow) popular

So I don't have to fear it being added

Even without bias (which tbh is the only way to get me to even dislike a Pokemon), I don't see much appeal behind Flutter Mane's design

Mainly because I don't see much appeal behind Misdreavus' design

And that they're even more similar than the example people like to bring up, Iron Jugulis and Hydreigon

[inland jewel]

Mandibuzz would go so hard

if i was to push for a dark type to be added it would be Mandibuzz line + Skuntank

[west sonnet]

You forget

the troll fish

Veluza

[fallen loom]

Veluza AKA diet Sharpedo

[west sonnet]

It’s really diet bruxish

[fallen loom]

veluza is creepy though, since it just sheds its flesh

[fallen loom]

the way it chases you reminds me of Sharpedo

[clear lichen]

Veluza's concept actually is really cool

[west sonnet]

Oh I love it

[clear lichen]

It kinda sucks ass in battle but shh

That's what fusions are for

[west sonnet]

but its still a silly looking single form fish

[clear lichen]

Turns out, shedding your flesh is not that great of a combat strategy

[clear lichen]

Especially when you are slow and frail

Geeta's team really is half shitmons half top tier threats utilised in the wrong way huh?

[west sonnet]

Yeah

[fallen loom]

Veluza vs. Bruxish

[west sonnet]

Like I said

troll fish

Same typing too

[fallen loom]

jeez, for a fish that chases you, it sure is slow

[clear lichen]

If only Gamefreak had the guts to make Espathra her Ace, and something like Protect Calm Mind Stored Power Tera Fighting Tera Blast with Speed Boost

[west sonnet]

Sharpness and Strong Jaw are even the same sort of ability

[clear lichen]

Bruxish trades one of its ability boosted STABs for more power on the other

Well, I assume Bruxish learns Psychic Fangs

Surely it does right?

[fallen loom]

yes

[west sonnet]

Veluza is EIGHT FEET TALL???

[fallen loom]

WHAT?!

[clear lichen]

I assume it's eight feet long

And not eight feet tall

[west sonnet]

Still

[clear lichen]

Yeah tbf it still is very long

[west sonnet]

I’ve read it as being like

[clear lichen]

That's twice as long as Barraskewda

[west sonnet]

barraskewda size

[fallen loom]

why do a lot of newer mon have so few egg moves?

[clear lichen]

I feel like if anything their lengths look like they should be swapped

Idk Barraskewda feels like it should be very long to me

[west sonnet]

Bc they matter less

they’re easier to get so they’re basically just learnset

[clear lichen]

It gives very long vibes

[west sonnet]

Barracuda are very long

[clear lichen]

Exactly barracuda are long

[inland jewel]

man, i guess there was a reason why my gut used Espathra over Veluza in my first Scarlet playthrough

[fallen loom]

also Veluza is later

Flittle is before the first Gym

[clear lichen]

Tbf Espathra depends on Speed Boost

[inland jewel]

(I said i'd use him in another playthrough but that still hasn't happened 3 playthroughs in)

[west sonnet]

SV also biased heavily towards special attackers

[clear lichen]

And I think Speed Boost is the HA

[west sonnet]

The raid meta favours Acid Spray so heavily

[inland jewel]

not really, Espathra with its sig ability can have some use

[clear lichen]

Great Tusk, Iron Treads and Dondozo as major bosses

Yeah I can see it

[clear lichen]

I dont think NPCs use stat boosting moves often

[inland jewel]

against bosses where they gain stat boosts

[clear lichen]

Maybe that's because I steamroll them too quick

[inland jewel]

Espathra gains them too

[clear lichen]

Ah

That's decently helpful

But like that's only really the titans

And then the loyal 3

Ig also Ogerpon?

[west sonnet]

Don’t forget needing to repeatedly fight Revaroom

[inland jewel]

doesn't one of the revaroom bosses have speed boost?

[clear lichen]

I think Terapagos comes with Calm Mind

[clear lichen]

Yeah but having Speed Boost instead of Opportunist doesn't really change much there believe it or not

[fallen loom]

I wish DLC Team Star bosses gave you the special Revaroom when you completed their friend quests

[clear lichen]

Also, I'm pretty sure that one is Mela

And if you have an Espathra for Mela, I'm pretty sure you're overleveled

[inland jewel]

i wish they scaled based on how far along you are on each path

[clear lichen]

It's very easy to overlevel in open world games

[inland jewel]

its also very easy to catch level 50 mons when your starter is level 5

[clear lichen]

I accidentally grinded to level 50 once does that count

I just got a bit carried away in culling the Ursaring and Scyther populations

[fallen loom]

at least raids don't actively grind your Pokémon again like in SwSh

[full bison]

Imagine Veluza/Minior. Filet Away would work perfectly with Shields Down

[clear lichen]

Minior already has Shell Smash which makes it less impressive

[fallen loom]

yeah

[clear lichen]

Whatever you're tanking at half HP with normal defences, you're tanking at full HP with 0.6666 defences

[west sonnet]

You’re forgetting

Hariyama/Minior Belly Drum

[clear lichen]

We need speed

We crave the speed

We thirst for it

[fallen loom]

would Minior + Cloyster be any good?

[clear lichen]

Also actually I think Pokeathalon bans Shell Smash

So actually

Veluza is helpful for Minior

[clear lichen]

Either you don't get funny STAB Skill Link Rock Blast or you don't get the form change's more offensive stat spread

So probably not anything exceptional

[full bison]

The way Frog describes the form change, it may be possible to fuse Core form Minior and it will just stay like that if you don't give it Shields Down, as the form change stays outside of battle

So Skill Link on Core could still be a thing, but you miss out on Meteor's status immunity

[inland jewel]

now i want to say that is a huge win for some mons

because that sets a precedent that we can get mons like Zen Manitan

but i know Minior is weird where it starts Core Form THEN gains Metoer form

unlike Zenmanitan which starts as Darmanitan then changes to Zen

[weak trellis]

dang if it weren't for 3 more defense you could justify those being version exclusives lol

[inland jewel]

so following that logic, zenmanitan needs Zen Mode, and then hit 50% which is uhhhh

[weak trellis]

yea there's a reason why H-Zen gets faster when it goes zen

[inland jewel]

the 3 point stat buff in Gen 10

[next flare]

It follows the logic that ‘speed’ is actually reflexes
Zen is more focused

Better at dodging

[weak trellis]

that'd make sense for mons like electrode and ninjask lol (and on the reverse, escavalier)

my brain just said "escavilier and vikavolt are the pokemon equivalent of high top speed low acceleration cars"

[inland jewel]

which means Vikvavolt should totally get speed boost

no matter how useful it would be with 30 speed

[fallen loom]

I don't like how the ONE Fire/Ice Type we have is an Ability that is worse than the other Ability the mon gets

[clear lichen]

And it isn't even Zen G-Darm being bad

Gorilla Tactics is just bonkers

[inland jewel]

Gen Z manitan

[fallen loom]

yeah

[weak trellis]

it's more just gorilla tactics being just free damage.

[clear lichen]

Double Band? Scarf+Band? Who knows?

[rancid nymph]

How is sacrificing 3/4 of your move set free?

[clear lichen]

All I know is that 1.5× is a lot

[full bison]

Gamefreak making an ability that's just a free Choice Band that also stacks with other Choice items was certainly one of the balance decisions of all time

[clear lichen]

Darmanitan is already the type of Pokemon to run Band and Scarf

[weak trellis]

when you're either switching every other turn (singles) or battles don't last long enough for it to matter (doubles)...

[clear lichen]

I mean unless you run Life Orb but that's only because base Darm has Sheer Force

[weak trellis]

though from what I've heard it's also outright bad in doubles since speed control and double targeting both mess with it pretty badly rofl

[clear lichen]

A frail rock and fire weak Pokemon is not succeeding in Doubles

[weak trellis]

especially in gen 8 with coalossal runnin' around

[clear lichen]

Is Coalossal actually a valid option in Gen 8 VGC?

It's so hard to believe when bro is hot garbage in Singles

[weak trellis]

I remember hearing its gigantamax was pretty decent but I forget where

[full bison]

I will forever find it hilarious how people justified Dexit back then by saying it was Gamefreak trying to balance the meta, only for Gen 8 to give us Zacian and Dracovish, with Gen 9 coming out a few years later to stomp out any ashes of competitive balance

[clear lichen]

That said Incin kinda sucks in Singles so like

[weak trellis]

I mean GF was probably trying to balance A meta... just not the one those people wanted to be balanced rofl

[full bison]

They failed balancing VGC too lmao

[clear lichen]

Idk, VGC looks extremely unbalanced to me too

[weak trellis]

hence "trying"

[full bison]

Again, Zacian

[clear lichen]

I assume they put Dexit into play so that people use the newer Pokemon more

[fallen loom]

next gen Incineroar should be left out

[clear lichen]

There's over 1000 Pokemon now, and even with Dexit it's a pain in the ass picking what I want to use

[full bison]

Never gonna happen, let's be real

[clear lichen]

At least for me

[fallen loom]

I thought it was laziness

[clear lichen]

I wouldn't call it laziness

[full bison]

"Every First Partner (ugh) Pokemon is available!" Is too much of a marketing boon

[clear lichen]

They're working pretty hard

I'd call it tight deadlines

[fallen loom]

everyone all "Oh it's SO hard to make 3D models, even though over half have already been made"

[fallen loom]

I honestly thought it was going to be a thing lasst gen, but then went for fossils instead

[clear lichen]

Gamefreak wants to put effort into the games but they are being rushed to produce the games in time, that's my theory

[fallen loom]

nah

they only put stuff in games they feel like

[full bison]

I really hope we go back to the old way of doing fossils. I'm so disappointed the potential of a Dunkleosteus Pokemon was thrown away on an abomination that knows only suffering

[fallen loom]

I mean if we got quality games with less mon like LA, then I could see it as quality vs. quantity, but right now? Nah

[clear lichen]

I get being disappointed that the fossil Pokemon are abominations that want to die

But ngl I kinda like the fact that they're abominations that want to die

Legends Eternatus where we get the OG fossils fr

[weak trellis]

I kinda see it as being like VGC where it's like pokemon are just rotated in and out to keep things active (which ineviably doesn't last in the wake of returns and The Obligatory Generational Legendary Parade)

[fallen loom]

I mean the issue with rotation is you get Pokémon like the elemental monkeys, Patrat line, Spinda, Castform, Unown and Frufrou where they just get shelved

[clear lichen]

My only concern with proper Gen 8 fossils is that it implies a Dragon and Ice type clone of Fishious Rend

[full bison]

Don't worry, the Ice type wouldn't be fast enough to abuse it

[clear lichen]

It might have Slush Rush

Then we'll all be doomed

I feel the need to remind people that Ice is a great offensive type, arguably the best out of the 4 Galar Fossil types

It's just that it gets a bad rep because Gamefreak loves slow bulky ice types

I see some people say "It doesn't matter if your offensive profile is great if your defensive profile sucks"

There's proof against that with multiple Ice types

AKA most of the fast ones that don't have piss poor offences

[weak trellis]

meanwhile on the opposite side: electric

[clear lichen]

Why does Froslass have 80 offences wtf

[weak trellis]

where it could be a neat defensive type but keeps getting put on glass cannons

[clear lichen]

Stop trying to be like Glalie

[fallen loom]

Splitting Types should be a thing:
Normal into Ordinary and Mammal
Water into Liquid and Fish
Flying into Wind and Bird
Grass into Herb and Wood (as in Herbaceous plants and Woody plants)

[clear lichen]

We do NOT need more types

[inland jewel]

i haven't used a single starter from any of the switch games, aside form Legends Arceus

but thats because old favorites

[dusty arrow]

tbh

[clear lichen]

And I assume that's what they want to prevent with Dexit

[dusty arrow]

gen 8 is my least favorite starter trio

[clear lichen]

Clearly not working though

[fallen loom]

me too

[clear lichen]

I calculated what my least favourite starter trio was once

I think it was like

Either Kanto or Johto

I forgor

[dusty arrow]

feraligatr is my favorite starter, typhlosion is cool, and meganium just makes me sad

[full bison]

Skeledirge and Quaquaval are 2 of my new favorite starters. The Gen 8 ones and Meowscarada mean nothing to me

[fallen loom]

I don't like Skeledirge

[dusty arrow]

the gen 9 starters are good, but not anything stand out (except fuecoco)

[clear lichen]

OK my lowest ranked ones were Kanto and Kalos, I believe because all 3 of their mons were in B tier

[full bison]

Apparently Quaxwell is the second least popular member of a Starter line

[clear lichen]

Johto had 2 B tiers and 1 A tier

[fallen loom]

the legs are thick and the feet look like shoes, also kinda looks like Elizabeth from Gintama

[dusty arrow]

i think gen 3 has the best starters overall in terms of what i like

[full bison]

Props to Gens 3 and 4 for having the least controversial starter trios

[dusty arrow]

sceptile used to be my favorite starter, swampert is my favorite gen 3 starter and maybe 2nd favorite starter overall, and blaziken is just pretty sick

[clear lichen]

None of the generations have more than 1 S tier

For the starters

For my rankings

Well except for Paldea

Where I think all the starters are S tier lmao

I really like the Paldea starters I will die on this hill

[full bison]

All 3 Gen 3 starters are S tier IMO

[clear lichen]

If you look at Sceptile and Blaziken's Megas, I can see it

[fallen loom]

I used to not like Swampert, but now I think Blaziken is boring

[clear lichen]

Base Swampert is slightly better than Mega Swampert imo

[alpine rune]

How

[fallen loom]

Mega Swampert looks part Fighting

[clear lichen]

I wish Sceptile was as good as its design

This is like bottom 5 starter in battle

Perhaps bottom 3

[full bison]

Venusaur has a lot of nostalgic value to me as it carried me through my first Pokemon playthrough, Blastoise is pretty cool, Charizard is neat but I wish Gamefreak would stop babying it

[clear lichen]

The only thing that could save it from this disgrace is its mega

[fallen loom]

I like Wartortle more than Blastoise

[dusty arrow]

fun fact

the dragon tera crystal is a black dragon with red wings

sound familiar

[full bison]

Meganium. Feraligatr is badass, and so is Typhlosion, people freaking out about cut content be damned

[clear lichen]

Also, out of the low tier starters (like PU and ZU), only Zard and Sceptile have megas

Ig Samurott has H-Samu

But H-Samu is its own starter

There's also H-Typh but that's not OU

[dusty arrow]

i like meganium but dear god

[clear lichen]

Sceptile's Mega is like UU, RU?

Both of Zards megas have been in OU

Sceptile is just

Sad

[alpine rune]

Meganium needs a revamp imo

A variant would also be nice

[full bison]

H-Typhlosion is in kinda a sad position. A Fire/Ghost Starter made available after Skeledirge, who has a much better ability and Sig move, and saddled with an ability that's literally worthless in VGC

[alpine rune]

I will die on the "Meganium should get a Fairy/Grass variant" hill

[clear lichen]

Also, Lightning Rod on a mon that quad resists Electric

Bro really wants to pivot in on the Electric type for uhhh

Corviknight

Or something

In specifically NatDex

Idfk

[alpine rune]

forget corviknight, he cant switch to any steel types in general

[clear lichen]

There's not much you can do with Lightning Rod on Mega Sceptile

[alpine rune]

best coverage he has iirc was Focus Miss

[clear lichen]

No as in, cover Electric types for a teammate Flying type

Like Corviknight in NatDex or something

Skarmory would've been a better example it doesn't need NatDex

But shh

[fallen loom]

Legends Kyurem where the starters are:
Meganium - Grass/Fairy
Fenniken - Fire/Poison
Blastoise - Water/Steel

[clear lichen]

Hear me out, revamp Mega Sceptile's ability to Regenerator

Maybe it can do something with Regenerator Shed Tail in like

RUbers

Or something

NatDex RUbers

[alpine rune]

Blastoise being water steel is too pbvious, and Meganium just gets outclassed by both because of Poison and Steel already countering them

[full bison]

The Fennekin line being based off of magic users being placed in the America region could get pretty dark inspiration wise

[fallen loom]

ok, Rock or something then

Dark

[clear lichen]

The legends game I would be most hyped for is like

Legends: Necrozma

Where the main story is set in Ultra Space

That would be so fucking peak

[alpine rune]

That would be cool ngl

[full bison]

An entire Ultra Space region would kick so much ass

[gray stream]

fr

[alpine rune]

Something that's not on earth

[full bison]

So many wonderfully bizarre designs could come from that

[alpine rune]

We can get the aliens of pokemon regional variants

[clear lichen]

We boutta start fishing for unused concept art with this one

I feel like they probably have some weird shit there

Like that one viral beta Arceus

Maybe they have like 10 more of those

[full bison]

Have we seen any beta UB designs?

[clear lichen]

Idk

If they do add new UBs I kinda want to see a lionfish

When I think invasive species I think of lionfish

[full bison]

A Hammerhead Flatworm could be cool

[clear lichen]

Those are pretty invasive

And we somehow don't have one yet

[alpine rune]

Do you guys know Pokestar Studios assets?

That would work honestly

[clear lichen]

Like Majin, the Dark/Ghost type with Wonder Guard a generation before Fairy?

Yeah why

[alpine rune]

Yea and the humanoids

That could be used imo

[clear lichen]

Bro's boutta get downgraded to Magic Guard or something and it's still gonna be an insane fucking ability

[alpine rune]

i mean Iron Thorns is already canon now, why not the others, make it a creepy and bizzare region

[alpine rune]

obviously we change some certain things but i feel like we can take inspirations from their designs

[dusty arrow]

im back

i remember earlier seeing a comparison of stats of veluza to bruxish

[fallen loom]

Legends: Necrozma starters:
Gen 10 starter Grass/Steel
Skeledirge: Fire/Fairy
Popplio: Water/Fighting

[clear lichen]

The closest things to Wonder Guard are like Wonder Skin(? Was that what it was called?) And Magic Guard

[alpine rune]

Magic Guard would work imo

[clear lichen]

No they need to be all UBs

And one of them needs to be Poipole line

Fr

[alpine rune]

it'll be like a better Spiritomb

[dusty arrow]

wonder skin: makes all status moves used against the pokemon to 50%, if the accuracy is already below 50% it doesnt change

[fallen loom]

poipole but 3 stages

[clear lichen]

Actually making Majin into a Spiritomb evo would be kinda fire

[dusty arrow]

the only defense i haved for veluza is the fact that it gets shell smash but different

and also sharpness ig

[clear lichen]

Ofc one that doesn't have Wonder Guard

[alpine rune]

These would go hard imo

[dusty arrow]

bruxish is still in a higher tier though lmao

well

kind of

bruxish is zubl while veluza is zu

[alpine rune]

Bruxish has immediate power imo

thats why its bl

[dusty arrow]

yeah bruxish is an immediate threat

[clear lichen]

Bruxish>Veluza is not something that surprises me

Veluza is so ass

[dusty arrow]

veluza shouldve been water/steel

[clear lichen]

Well, better than Psychic

I'll take it

[alpine rune]

Veluza needs a risky fillet away setup so that it could be more powerful than bruxish, its not as effective as immediate power of strong jaws choice scarf in a short term battle

[clear lichen]

Steel on a mon meant to be offensive isn't very cool but Psychic is ass

[dusty arrow]

i mean steel can still be a good offensive type

[clear lichen]

We need a Psychic buff

It's been long enough

[dusty arrow]

its just best used with another type it works well with

[dusty arrow]

ok but tbf if its gamefreak

[clear lichen]

Psychic has endured more than enough

[dusty arrow]

they are either going to make it more busted than fairy or make it barely better

[clear lichen]

Make it SE against Steel fr

This is a very big change I'm sure that we could do just that and nothing else and it wouldn't be broken or dogshit

[dusty arrow]

nah just make it resist all types

i see nothing wrong with this change

[alpine rune]

i feel like psychic needs an immunity to fairy

think about it

the "smart" ones dont believe in fairytales

[dusty arrow]

i also see it as

since psychic is weak to things we commonly fear, ie the dark, bugs, and ghosts

and fairies are generally depicted as "cute" so they wouldnt be weak to them

[alpine rune]

That could work too

I feel like by making a resistance/immunity is better than making something super effective to another

because the current system is good as is, nothing has more than two 4x weakness to anything

[clear lichen]

OK but I think being SE against Steel makes more thematic sense

[alpine rune]

Unlike in gen one where paras has three 4x weakness

[clear lichen]

And we can't suddenly just make it absolutely fuck over both of the best types in the game

[dusty arrow]

parasect and paras back in gen 1 be rolling in their pixels

[alpine rune]

Also making Psychic resist fairy would honestly complete a three way counter with Psychic, Fairy, and Dark

would be much more interesting

[clear lichen]

Why do we consistently show Psychic types bending metals and shit and then have them be resisted

That's just stupid

[dusty arrow]

iirc

another thing is

[clear lichen]

Ik they wanted to nerf Psychic

[dusty arrow]

wolfe said the third best type (and the last S tier type)

is the water type

[clear lichen]

But at this point it's already one of the worst types in the game

[dusty arrow]

only 2 weaknesses

[alpine rune]

but i dont think making them super effective make sense either, id say make it neutral

[clear lichen]

That's very fair

Top 5 types are like Steel, Fairy, Water, Ghost and Ground

I see VGC sees it similarly

[full bison]

One of the biggest things with the modern portrayal of Fairies is that lack of belief in them makes them disappear, shouldn't the type most associated with the mind be able to take advantage of that?

[dusty arrow]

i think water should get a very minor nerf imo

[clear lichen]

A lot of people would place Fairy, Steel and Water as 1st 2nd and 3rd in any order

[dusty arrow]

maybe another ability that makes the pokemon immune to them

or at least buff palossand

make water compaction give a immunity-

[clear lichen]

Comparing Water Compaction and Well Baked Body shows what top tier type privilege looks like

Fire is like I wanna say

Mid to high B tier

Maybe low A?

While Water is easy S tier

[full bison]

I'd say Fire is solidly A

[dusty arrow]

something like that

[alpine rune]

I still think we need to be careful with making anything super effective, we dont wanna fuck over grass and ice types even more

[dusty arrow]

nah

[alpine rune]

Cuz dual typings exist yknow

[clear lichen]

Making Psychic SE against Steel does actually kinda fuck Grass a bit

[full bison]

It's got a lot of good offensive matchups and it's got a better defensive profile than some people realize

[dusty arrow]

lets give tauros and snorlax evolutions that rule over ou like the good ol' days of '96

[clear lichen]

Grass/Steel is seen as one of, if not the best defensive types in the game

[full bison]

Heatran wouldn't be half the meta dominant threat it is if it wasn't Fire type in addition to Steel

[clear lichen]

Ferrothorn W

[alpine rune]

Bug/steel would also have 2 weaknesses then

Metagross would lose its 4x resist

[clear lichen]

Bug/Steel struggles less with being weak to Psychic since yknow

It's Bug

Bug is good vs Psychic

It's still definitely an issue

Metagross would not need Hammer Arm for other Steels

Which is pretty neat

[dusty arrow]

steel/fighting and steel/poison would gain 4x weaknesses

two pretty good type combos gaining a 4x weakness

[clear lichen]

Are you noticing how all Steel types are good defensively

It definitely needs some sort of nerf

[full bison]

The Alolan Sandslash in question:

[clear lichen]

... Almost all

Also, somehow Ice/Steel might not have it as bad as Rock/Steel

[alpine rune]

Poison steel would definitely becomes a contender to Ice steel in terms of shittiest combo

rip revavroom

[clear lichen]

Rock is the same type of shit as Ice tbf

Great offensively, complete and utter ass defensively

Rock/Steel is probably worse than Ice/Steel it's that bad

[west sonnet]

Dry Skin always helps

[dusty arrow]

ice/steel is actually decent

rock/steel is the steel combo that sucks ass

[alpine rune]

no i mean in the context of "What if Psychic is SE towards Steel"

[clear lichen]

Ice/Steel definitely isn't completely ass it has good resists

It kinda reminds me of types like Bug/Fire and Fire/Ground

[alpine rune]

Decent my foot, Fighting and fire is actually common weaknesses

[full bison]

Nothing with two x4 weakness can be called a good defensive type IMO

[clear lichen]

Overall very good defensively but they have some really crippling weaknesses

(And Fire/Flying too almost forgot that)

[dusty arrow]

im pretty sure wolfe gave it like a mid c to low b on his type combo rating

i could be wrong

[clear lichen]

Ofc, Ice/Steel has 2 fucking 4× weaknesses as opposed to 1

So that lowers it quite a lot

And I also want to note that Steel does not synergise well with Ice offensively

[full bison]

I mostly just want Bug to get a buff, but I have no idea what that would entail

[alpine rune]

Not to mention Fighting is common among physical attackers and Fire is common among special attackers, so really at best you are a fairy dragon sweeper and cant switch in to anything

[clear lichen]

Ice is a type that you'll find a lot more success with if you go all in on offence

[clear lichen]

Make it SE vs Fairy while making Psychic SE vs Steel and watch what happens

I'm sure it'd be completely hilarious

Not too sure about balance but shh

[alpine rune]

Ice should resist water, im just saying

[clear lichen]

Fuck defensive presence

We go all in on offence

If you put metal at cold enough temperatures it becomes brittle make Ice neutral vs Steel fr

[alpine rune]

Then what if, remove Fire resistance and Steel resistance?

[dusty arrow]

i agree

just dont make it super effective against water

[clear lichen]

Fire doesn't need a nerf

[dusty arrow]

that would literally make the entire point of freeze dry worthless

[clear lichen]

And Ice doesn't need too much of a buff offensively

It doesn't even need a buff offensively

But buffing it anyways would be hilarious

[alpine rune]

The thing is it fails to be a Glass cannon when fire types is a bette glass cannon

[clear lichen]

So fuck it, we ball

[dusty arrow]

super effective vs fairy

[clear lichen]

It does NOT fail being a glass cannon lmao

It is certainly one of the top offensive types of all time

[dusty arrow]

also fun fact

[alpine rune]

Left is fire, Right is ice

[dusty arrow]

water freezing inside of rock can break rocks

therefore

make ice strong against rock

[full bison]

Fire isn't a Glass Cannon, it has the second most resistances of any type

[clear lichen]

Fire's main target is Steel, Ice targets Flying, Ground AND Dragon

[alpine rune]

Yea my point is, Ice is resisted by the same amount of types as fire, at that point, why dont you just use fire types?

[full bison]

Cause it has better targets

[clear lichen]

Bug is like average defensively, very good resist but very bad weaknesses, Fire is certainly a bad weakness at least

[full bison]

Ground, Flying, and Dragon are Evergreen typings in how viable they are, hitting them super effectively is huge

[clear lichen]

Grass and Ice are not defensive types whatsoever there's like 2 defensively good dual type for Grass and 0 for Ice

Ice simply has better targets, Flying, Ground and Dragon are all good defensive types that you want to target

Though, as with Fire, you do need a good pairing to cover the resistances

That's the similarity between them

[alpine rune]

Not in modern pokemon it isnt, flying types can be easily dealt by most rock types, and dragon has a kryptonite in fairy now. The only thing you would use an Ice type is when you just use it for coverage and disregard ice types in general.

Yes Im aware that articuno won championship once but i do not count that as a testament to ice types being good, its more of Snow buff and terastalization

[clear lichen]

Meanwhile, Ghost type staring from the corner like:

You literally need one type neutral towards Dark and Normal, types that don't have many resistances, and that's about it

Free infinite neutral coverage

We love Ghost/Fighting types

Ghost/Fairy is also good

Don't tell me you're scared of a fucking Pyroar pulling up to your doorstep

[full bison]

You bring up Rock types like they're that relevant. They're okay at best. Barely any relevant attack moves, and Stealth Rocks are dealt with by Boots

[clear lichen]

Stealth Rocks forcing Boots is pretty big though

But yeah even then Flying is a good defensive type

Dragon only has 2 other weaknesses apart from Ice, so Ice is still valuable for it

Dragon has the same number of weaknesses as Steel, albeit Steel has a shitload more resistances

Steel is definitely one very big very good target, but Ice has 3 good targets

Steel actually has 3 crippling weaknesses, its problem isn't not having enough weaknesses

[full bison]

Crazy how we had a fast Rock type with a 100% accurate STAB move and it's still UU

[clear lichen]

10 fucking resistances
"Holy shit"

(And 1 immunity)

[alpine rune]

Theyre very relevant, especially the most common rock coverage like rockslide is on good mons like landoT, if we dont bring up competitive, we got things like Graveler and aggron which is servicable in a regular playthrough

[clear lichen]

*UUBL

It's more so a testament to how shit Psychic is in the current OU metagame imo

Look at all the amazing Dark types you have to deal with

[full bison]

The fact that you need to rely on Rock Slide is not a good thing LMAO

80% accuracy nonsense

[clear lichen]

Kingambit, H-Samu, Ting-Lu, Weavile, Meows, Roaring Moon, Darkrai oh my god you cannot catch a fucking break

[alpine rune]

Rock slide is 95%

[clear lichen]

I've probably missed many, many more

[clear lichen]

It's also 75 Power iirc

And that's pretty fucking low

[alpine rune]

Also you dont use an ICe type against a Gliscor, you use an ice coverage

[full bison]

Just checked, it's 90%. Still not reliable at all

[clear lichen]

If you have a 90% accurate move it better have more than 75 Power

[full bison]

Just ask anyone who tries relying on Aqua Tail or Play Rough how they feel about it

[clear lichen]

That's why I'm always going for Stone Edge

That's actually worth the lower accuracy

Well, somewhat

Earthquake exists with 100% accuracy but early gen moves were wack

90% accurate 30% freeze chance

110 Power

Mmmmmm

Tasty

[alpine rune]

You guys never use an ice type in any of your playthroughs huh? I dare you to run an ice types and count how its KD ratio, believe me, its less than just a non-ice type using an Ice coverage or even a fire type against the same opponents

[clear lichen]

Same generation where your Fighting STAB is so ass that winning a 1v1 against the Normals isn't very easy as a Fighting type even if you don't miss your shitty accuracy move with shit power

[full bison]

We literally had 3 Ice types get banned in Smogon with 1 of them being a relatively common VGC pick, I don't get this adamance that Ice is irrelevant

[clear lichen]

Hey, all of them have above 570 BST- ah, who am I kidding, the main point is that they're actually spending the fucking stat points on something that isn't HP or defences

[alpine rune]

Oh yea, chienpao, a mon that is obsolete when you have Fluttermane running around

in VGC chienpao is more of an enabler and finisher than a damage dealer

I'm dying on this hill

[clear lichen]

Even then, Bax in particular isn't exactly a fast offensive mon, but it has enough bulk to tank a SE hit or two while setting up with stuff like DD or SD Loaded Dice Scale Shot

[alpine rune]

Ice types needs a buff

[clear lichen]

Ice as a type is not the type that needs a buff most or even 2nd most

Bug and Psychic need buffs so very desperately

We'll see if Ice needs buffs when Gamefreak actually makes them fast offensive mons

Idk if Ice is even the 3rd worst type in the game

[full bison]

Flutter Mane being OP doesn't magically mean Pao isn't strong

[clear lichen]

I hate Flutter Mane man

That fucking stat spread is just

Bruh

I dont feel like listing every other way I hate it

[rancid nymph]

https://tenor.com/view/weavile-pokemon-anime-dance-gif-22707594

[clear lichen]

Weavile's a good Pokemon

And has been ever since Gamefreak decided to yknow

GIVE IT PHYSICAL ICE STAB

My guy's relying on fucking Ice Shard in DPP

[rancid nymph]

He can get Ice punch by move tutor in Platinum

[clear lichen]

If you're gonna remove all the STAB from the Ice types no wonder the Pokemon whose main weakness is Ice is gonna be a pain

That's all I'm gonna say

[rancid nymph]

And don’t forget: Sneasel had to go 2 generations with both of its stab types being special

[clear lichen]

If you don't want to gamble you have to rely on stuff like Blizzard Froslass lmao

OU ladder is an enigma to me

Weavile's ranked very high by top ladder players, yet doesn't get high enough usage to be OU

Why is that, I wonder

Perhaps I'll never know

[full bison]

Maybe we should get Beartic in IF, that'll mean Ice types can start getting Icicle Crash

[clear lichen]

Shit thanks for giving me an idea on who to vote next time we have an event like this

I cant have Mamoswine relying on motherfucking Ice Fang as main STAB

Is there a user of Icicle Crash already in the game actually?

If so, we can sketch Icicle Crash with Smeargle then pass down via egg moves

I learnt this while looking at BDSP Mamoswine and Weavile's movepools

Yes, it is that sad

I'm not sure what the 3rd worst type is

But I do think only Bug and Psychic deserve a tier below C tier

[acoustic compass]

Thanks for reminding me to vote for Heatmor for Fire Lash to get added into the game

[rain locust]

mamoswine

[clear lichen]

Do you mean to tell me that Mamoswine learns Icicle Crash naturally but they removed it specifically for BDSP

Bruh

[rain locust]

lol.

[clear lichen]

Thanks ilca

[full bison]

Gotta love the "faithful remake" treatment

[viscid fossil]

very faithful
like they kept actual bugs that only make the gameplay worse (rip suction cups/sticky hold)

[full bison]

And then they decided to make changes where people didn't want them

Like, thanks guys, I didn't want Secret Base decorations back at all, I just wanted an empty statue park. Really appreciate it.

[acoustic compass]

What really aggravates me about BDSP is that it didn't fix Diamond & Pearl's Pokedex to match Platinum's updated, an updated Pokedex Sinnon desperately needed back then.

[latent knoll]

My pet peevee with that remake is eevee -_- im still pissed there locked to post game without trades

[civic rapids]

Ya know, for all of BDSPs faults as a remake (and there are a lot of em)...I'd still play it over base DS Diamond & Pearl

Against Platinum though? Nah I'll take Platinum 😅

[finite reef]

Only 4 pokemon evolution lines in gen7 learn icicle crash (excluding alolan forms), that's wild. The distribution on that move is garbage

[carmine iris]

Ice type needs more defensive buffs

[finite reef]

Ice got a lot better in gen9, the snow defence buff was actually pretty good. Bug needs a buff more now imo

[velvet root]

Make it super effective against Fairy

Cuz in many Fairytales Bugs attack Fairys

[clear lichen]

Bug and Psychic always needed a buff more than Ice for a few gens now

Though ig when you consider how rare Ice types are you'd expect the type to be the best offensive type when reality is it's "only" like top 3

But a type like Ice that wants to heavily lean into offence and disregard defence really wants to be top 1 for offence

Especially when other types seen as offensively sound like Ghost also carry good defensive utility

[sterile spoke]

Ice and Bug need defensive buffs for sure. I'm not sure Psychic does need a buff. 😅

[clear lichen]

I mean weak to Dark and Ghost kinda fucking stinks but you carry a pretty good immunity, a meh immunity, and a few decent resists

Imo Psychic is one of the 2 worst types in the game

Alongside Bug

Psychic being good is a relic of the past

I'd rather Ice fully lean into offence and get offensive buffs

Bug's offence is unsalvageable but its Defence has some pretty solid foundations

So defensive buffs for Bug would be the way to go

That said, it'd be funny to make it SE against Fairy

[clear lichen]

No but seriously, resistances to Fighting and Ground are really great

It's just that it's weak to 3 good offensive types, one of which is omnipresent

I think what makes Psychic not stand out is that it's just

Bad without much distinguishing factors

It doesn't have any spectacular advantage among the pile of shit

Defensively, the only type you resist that isn't yourself is Fighting, which is a fine resist

But you're weak to Bug, Ghost and Dark

Bug and Dark are omnipresent in the forms of U-Turn and Knock Off

Ghost is one of the overall best types in the game, and a large part is its offensive presence

This is just a terrible defensive profile

Ig offensively Fighting's a decent target, Poison's actually good

But being stonewalled by Dark and resisted by Steel is not cool

It's so mid

If you want a great neutral type you don't want it to be resisted by Steel, and if it has immune targets, you'd hope for them to be not as relevant

Like yknow

Ghost

Another type that tries to prosper from great neutral coverage, and this time succeeds

There's also how defensively Ghost is better than Psychic in every way, barring the Psychic neutrality