pif-hoenn-discussion

[stuck bane]

Idk I don’t sprite and this was the raffle Melo won

[hollow creek]

Pretty sure it was peegeray

[junior slate]

yall are predjudiced against lizard

Corrosion is so good

[stuck bane]

I agree

But spriters don’t care for mechanics much

[hollow creek]

Thats true

[silk narwhal]

Bro wtf picked wingull

[hollow creek]

I dont care for mechanics much

[stuck bane]

Idk but I’d be happy with it

[junior slate]

even then, salazzle has a great design

[clear lichen]

I care about both sprites and mechanics

[hollow creek]

Me too because salazzle has potential for fun designs

[junior slate]

all sorts of angles you can go for

[stuck bane]

Why are you phrasing it like that it’s not helping your case

[feral bear]

i simply must pick aromatisse

[silk narwhal]

Tsareena and lurantis are awesome too

[clear lichen]

It's just that I don't talk about spritework often since that's opinion based

[quaint mauve]

If ive said it once i'll said it again. Salandit for Kobolds, Salazzle for (admittedly twinky) Dragonborn, in the same evolution line.

[stuck bane]

Team Girlboss is actually so stacked

[silk narwhal]

But hey, you know who's even more awesome?

The only member remaining of the beloved group

NGS

[quaint mauve]

Or just fuse it with Lycanroc for Yeens.

[feral bear]

working on the girlboss/sableye propaganda RN

[silk narwhal]

That's right, Vote golisopod everybody

[stuck bane]

I’d also like Golisopod, but I like the other water bug from that Gen more

[silk narwhal]

There's no shot

[clear lichen]

I voted 3 for both

Just that simple

[silk narwhal]

How do you like dewpider more

[quaint mauve]

Araquanid?

[clear lichen]

I also prefer Araquanid

[silk narwhal]

Golisopd is the coolest thing ever

[clear lichen]

Big fucking spider

[stuck bane]

Araquanid just looks cooler and dewpider looks cuter

[clear lichen]

Bro's 1.8 meters tall

[quaint mauve]

Bug/Whatever with an inherent resistance to fire

[clear lichen]

And he's a lot wider than he is tall

[silk narwhal]

Golisopod looks gnarly as fuck

[stuck bane]

Idk what to tell you I prefer the other, but I agree Golisopod brings great armor potential

[silk narwhal]

He's a tank

[stuck bane]

And araquanid is a unit

[clear lichen]

Goliath Isopod VS Giant Enemy Spider

[quaint mauve]

His ability is bailing out at the first sign of trouble, thats not a tank thats a dps out of position

[clear lichen]

Just vote both for 2

Emergency Exit is so ass

So removing that ability from Golisopod is an exciting prospect

[weak trellis]

emergency exit feels like a great ability... if your speed is high enough

[clear lichen]

Araquanid is so ass but Water Bubble is amazing

[silk narwhal]

Looks like i have to show y'all this again

[weak trellis]

since you take a hit and swap out automatically

[hollow creek]

Golisopod and araquanid have amazing potential for both head and body fusions

[clear lichen]

Giving Water Bubble to actual stats is an exciting prospect

[silk narwhal]

Damn it's been so long since i made it

[stuck bane]

I want Golisopod! You proved it last time it got a 3, I just like araquanid more from bias

[hollow creek]

I really hope one of the next event winners picks one of them

[quaint mauve]

Those arms are literally floating in the void

[silk narwhal]

Yeah they are

[clear lichen]

They're 2 badass Pokemon that have extremely strong points for competitive

[hollow creek]

I still feel like golisopod has a 80% chance of winning the popular vote

[clear lichen]

Golisopod has really solid stats

And the Water type

[stuck bane]

Wait I thought they were being held by the stick/hand

[clear lichen]

And removing Emergency Exit would be great

Araquanid doesn't have very good stats

[silk narwhal]

No they're floating

[clear lichen]

But it has Sticky Web and a good SpD

[stuck bane]

Huh ok

[clear lichen]

As well as Water Bubble

[velvet root]

Wait
Rick
Here?

[silk narwhal]

That's supposed to be a hilt

[autumn radish]

Holy, that's actually cool.

[quaint mauve]

Speed is a lie anyways when shit like electroweb exists

[velvet root]

Also i know the winner for the winner vote now...

[clear lichen]

Nobody's gonna be using that in Singles

It's way too weak

[silk narwhal]

Crazy i know

[quaint mauve]

... no, wait that stops the pokemon from leaving, whats the fucking paralyzing one?

[trail hull]

Interesting

[unkempt kernel]

Reminds me of Ramlatal Valentine from GGST

[clear lichen]

... Electroweb is an Icy Wind clone

It neither prevents switching nor paralyses

[silk narwhal]

I see what you mean

[clear lichen]

Are you thinking of Nuzzle or something?

[silk narwhal]

Pretty sure the reference is to Honkai tho

[quaint mauve]

Fuck am i thinking of then?

[weak trellis]

nuzzle?

[silk narwhal]

Thanks lmao

[clear lichen]

Nuzzle is just upgraded Thunder Wave

[quaint mauve]

Nuzzle is based but im thinking of an entry hazard.

[clear lichen]

Better accuracy and due to being a damaging move it cannot be taunted

[weak trellis]

trapping is electro cage I think which is a gen 8 move

[clear lichen]

Well

[unkempt kernel]

Fair, its the flowting shoulder pads and sword that does it for me

[clear lichen]

"Damaging"

[clear lichen]

Sticky Web?

Which yknow

I already mentioned?

[exotic steppe]

Heeey

I’m still sick
It worse actually

But that won’t stop me from saying that clancher and escavlier are super cool!

[clear lichen]

Unless you just mean actual paralysis

[silk narwhal]

I might redraw the hilt to make it more clear

[clear lichen]

And there isn't an entry hazard that Paralysis on switch in

[silk narwhal]

If golisopod wins

[quaint mauve]

Fucking-
Im going to assume it was a rom then.

[clear lichen]

There's only Sticky Web that lowers speed

[clear lichen]

Definitely was

I think Insurgence has an entry hazard like that

[exotic steppe]

Now I am going to lay back down

[quaint mauve]

this shit is why i stick with poison spikes

[clear lichen]

And probably a bunch of other romhacks

[stuck bane]

It has a good shot, good portion of spriters got it to 2nd place in the spriter vote, and it seems like they’ll have a large portion of voting power as well

[clear lichen]

Also yeah trapping is in fact the Gen 8 move, Electro Cage

Not only is it Gen 8

But it is also Regieleki's signature move

[trail hull]

gogoat , spheal and golisopod have the most chance of winning

[silk narwhal]

I'm actually not following the voting ngl

[clear lichen]

Weird how one of them got a decent move that may be a bit underwhelming at times

And the other got DRAGON ENERGY

[silk narwhal]

I don't know how it works or anything

I just hope he wins lmao

[clear lichen]

Regieleki is still better because of better stats

But still

[silk narwhal]

If multiple mons can be added then

Oh wait no legendaries right

Damn

[clear lichen]

Yeah no legendaries

[silk narwhal]

Damn

[stuck bane]

I’d say Golisopod has the best shot (if chosen) since we’ve now clarified it’s a vote between winners to decide ultimate winner

Because winners are people in the server, they’re more likely to listen to our arguments, which gives a fair shot to archeops and ruins kommo-I’d chances

[clear lichen]

I wonder which box art legendary group would win between the Cosmog Line and Xerneas+Yveltal

[quaint mauve]

Spider Web is the bitch i was thinking about, apparently its just not a hazard. Though i still swear to god electroweb had a paralysis chance at one point

[clear lichen]

I'd imagine Cosmog line due to being similarly popular at the final forms but also having 2 prevos at similar popularity

Including Zygarde I have literally 0 clue

[stuck bane]

It’s not impossible for the main vote and special vote to be finalized, and then frog adds mons based on getting us back to an even number, that’s what he did last vote, but don’t expect a ton (10 slots?)

[clear lichen]

I feel like they'd definitely have to pit the legendaries against each other to vote

Or just have it not be a vote

[quaint mauve]

Just so long as its not tied to karma im fine with however they add them.

[clear lichen]

I just want Lunala

[silk narwhal]

Wait what's the speed spriting contest

[clear lichen]

That's pretty much it

[velvet root]

Idk

[stuck bane]

It’s in announcements in the Google doc, for all planned events and times

[clear lichen]

If they do put the box arts against each other to vote I can't see them separating the duos

[velvet root]

We have elusive pokedex rn that can get you qualified into the winner voting

[clear lichen]

Because Lunala and Solgaleo are kinda inseperable

Due to being a evolutionary line

[stuck bane]

Oh wait is emote contest over? Because that gets us one too

[silk narwhal]

Is it spriting

Or something else

[velvet root]

Yes

[silent acorn]

Hello there Rick

[quaint mauve]

I kinda want the genies, if only so i can have Poke-Pillar Men.

[velvet root]

One Non if mon with a if and write it a dex entry

[silk narwhal]

Yo hi

[silent acorn]

Nice to see you again

[silk narwhal]

Wait that's awesome

How much time do we have still

[stuck bane]

• Tourney #1 Infinite Fusion Random Battles: Wingull / Pelliper
• Dog Days Winner: Swirlix / Slurpuff
• Role icon contest: TBD
• Emote Contest : TBD
• Elusive Pokedex Event: TBD
• Dex Entry Contest #2 : TBD
• Speed Spriter Contest : TBD
• Tourney #2 IF Singles : TBD
• Tourney #3 Gen Lock : TBD
• Concept Art Contest : TBD
• Tourney #4 IF Doubles : TBD
• Tourney #5 Big Boss : TBD
• Tourney #6 Monotype: TBD

[velvet root]

Until 19/08/2024

[stuck bane]

These are the contests that will get you a chance to add a Pokémon

[silent acorn]

Yeah it's a tourney seems to be later maybe another week?

[velvet root]

I expect slurpuff to win

[silent acorn]

So far one of the candidates is Pelippor

[silk narwhal]

Oh that's good

[silk narwhal]

Bro there's only two options rn

[velvet root]

5 entrys are allowed

[stuck bane]

Still 10 more slots, I wouldn’t make my bets yet, especially since we don’t know if legends/myths are allowed

[silk narwhal]

Don't you think it's a bit too early to predict results

[velvet root]

But slurpuff is in

[silent acorn]

Ah swirlix was revealed? Pretty nice

[silk narwhal]

FIVE?

[hollow creek]

Same

[silk narwhal]

have you done any?

[velvet root]

Yes

[velvet root]

No...

[silk narwhal]

Show

Oh

Nvm lmao

[velvet root]

The yes was for the 5

[silk narwhal]

Yeah i realized later

[silent acorn]

So how it works is that if you win you can put the pokemon you want as president new pokemon in a latter election

[velvet root]

I made that a hour before the event startet

[silent acorn]

How is plague doctor?

[velvet root]

Didnt start

Dont know if I do

[silent acorn]

Oh. Yeah you don't have the other one huh

[deft obsidian]

I just made one sprite for elusive pokedex event and working on next.

[velvet root]

• i have to make a Goat before its midnight

[velvet root]

Show us

[silent acorn]

Tell me some mons that you love seeing

[silent acorn]

It'll be fun, share

[velvet root]

Who?

[velvet root]

Yeah its cool

[trail hull]

I made these two for the elusive contest

[silent acorn]

A LILLIGANT

[hollow creek]

I made one for elusive pokedex, but I might as well give the second one too since it multiple entry

[silent acorn]

It's fantastic I love it. Is it Wailord?

[silent acorn]

Where is the eye pupils of the second one?

[hollow creek]

If you cant see them im glad you said so, so now I can make them more clear

[silent acorn]

If I had to give it. A rating it'd be 10/10

[gusty palm]

Hey so the elusive contest is any 2 pokemon aslong as it's one present in IF and one present in the vote right

Just wanna make sure before I start

[silent acorn]

Hmmm not exactly, it's as loose as one not in if and one that is. So technically legends of both ends should be allowed

[gusty palm]

Well the fusion I am thinking of doesn't have any legends anyway so I'll get to spriting

[slim otter]

Guys
Look at this thing

[velvet root]

https://tenor.com/view/smashing-with-sledgehammer-destroying-infinity-gauntlet-smash-infinity-gauntlet-sledgehammer-gif-14155319

[gusty palm]

Why them lips so swollen

[slim otter]

There's another

[gusty palm]

It looks like it got stung by a bee

[hollow creek]

You should win elusive dex so you can pick him

[slim otter]

Oh, Elusive Dex is letting the winner add to the raffle?

I didn't really pay attention to the schedule beyond the events I'm hosting

[velvet root]

To the vote

[slim otter]

That's what I mean

These little guys bring me so much joy

[slim otter]

I might!
I haven't had much success with actually winning events, though

Closest I seem to get is runner-up

[gusty palm]

I mean you'll have better chances than me lol

[unkempt kernel]

Counter argument: Squirrel.

[silent acorn]

It has those cursed cartoon lips I like it though

[hollow creek]

Same lol

Althought with work and having my off days be spriting days, it is kinda hard to do the events when they come

[slim otter]

I made this today

[gusty palm]

First time actually participating in an event and I can't say I very experienced

[slim otter]

I found out that shellos has a tiny little nose

[silent acorn]

So where do we elusive entries? Sprite work?

[gusty palm]

As far as I know yeah

[gusty palm]

Mouth weirds me out a bit but that could 100% just be me, great job

[deft obsidian]

In one of this links #event-announcements message

[silent acorn]

Gogoat be like "Why you putting me next to your Lovander Plush"

[slim otter]

This will slowly fill with Gastrodon and Shellos sprites and art

[silent acorn]

Lemme take a look

It'd be weird I'd you win elusive with one not in and yet pick a different one but I guess it's a valid strat

[unkempt kernel]

Tbh i do actually prefer brown and pink shellos / gastrodon than blue and green

[slim otter]

I'm kinda sick today, so if I do an entry, it won't be made today

[silent acorn]

Nevermind it says it has to be from vote

[gusty palm]

Hey guys how do I get a Golisopod base

[silent acorn]

this is actually pretty great

[deft obsidian]

Fuck, that's wrong link, that's finish the line contest

[silent acorn]

This is one https://discord.com/channels/302153478556352513/1226096527227883570

[silent acorn]

Don't worry I found it

[deft obsidian]

#event-announcements message this one is elusive pokedex

[silent acorn]

Thank you anyway

[silent acorn]

Gotta love this sassy cat. Notice though the thing around it's torso is it's tail again so it's super chonky inside

[gusty palm]

Not a fan of the colors on that one, honestly I might just grab the one on the vote

[silent acorn]

You know why the hell haven't we brought this here before? It should be valid tool for votes

[silent acorn]

Oh hey it's doll guy

[glass patio]

Wdym

smh

[deft obsidian]

:0

[silent acorn]

Comes
Proceeds to request minior
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves

[gusty palm]

Best kind of propaganda

[silent acorn]

I like this except for those weird nails

[glass patio]

Ikr

[silent acorn]

I dunno it's kinda underwhelming

[gusty palm]

Alright so the base on the vote also has pretty weird colors so I'm gonna use Wimpod's color pallette instead

[civic harness]

Another one is on the list...

[trail hull]

I apaprently said luvdisc name 86 times

and 60 of these in this channel

[civic harness]

Epic

[trail hull]

I think you can tell which mon I want in lol

[civic harness]

Wishiwashi

[silent acorn]

Hey is there only 10 entries on the 500k special?

[trail hull]

lol

[civic harness]

Anyways

[trail hull]

would'nt it be fun if frog reveal that he adds all of the one in the event winner list

[civic harness]

I dont know If I could show my propaganda now

[glass patio]

has minior been added already

no?

ok

damn

[civic harness]

More reasons to win one event

[silent acorn]

only 10 things and 3 of them are Snorlax

[glass patio]

literally me

[gusty palm]

Minior tbh while not a mon I like that much (kinda indiferent abt it), I see it making some cool fusions

Minior/Regirock sounds sick

[silent acorn]

@deft obsidian am I in the right thing?

[trail hull]

Yeah

[civic harness]

Or still doing hype

[glass patio]

Omfg has it really been a year have i wanted minior for a year now 😭

[deft obsidian]

Yes,
You can't find my wailord/lilligant because I don't have dex entry yet, I'm horrible at English.

[trail hull]

it has been a year since I became a spriter (I became spriter because I wanted to vote in the spriters only poll)

[silent acorn]

Gotta implement them slowly

[trail hull]

like yesterday marked the 1 year anniversary of my first sprite gallery post

[civic harness]

Epic

[silent acorn]

Do you want me to help you? I used to do entries in custom dex entries

[glass patio]

it feels like less idk

[deft obsidian]

That will be awesome

[glass patio]

wait my last sprite was on march omfg have i really quit for that long

[silent acorn]

Since it's for yours it'll bring it to custom entries and have it go through some checks gimme it a little bit

[trail hull]

I hope my entries are good enough

[snow scroll]

I'd do an entry, but my sprites haven't made it onto the game yet

[deft obsidian]

You can still participate if you have blue name

[silent acorn]

This is for Elusive though, you can put entries there even if they don't come into the game YET

[trail hull]

and this elusive cotn"est requires a non-if so it won't be added anyways

[glass patio]

why are we already at the eighth month of 2024

why is time flying so much

[stuck bane]

So it probably won’t be added

[stuck bane]

To offset the slowness of 2020

[glass patio]

fair enough

[trail hull]

yeah probably but you're not forced to make the fusion for the mon you want in the game

so you can make an epic golisopod fusion and then vote for the elemental monkeys

[stuck bane]

Still a slight chance for that fusion to make it in, especially with 2 votes. Low, not impossible

[trail hull]

Everyday I get confused b the second vote

[stuck bane]

Frog clarified it a bit earlier lemme explain

12 events, each winner picks a Pokémon for the special vote

Then a special vote is held between only the 12 winners, and they can’t vote for their own choice

The winner of that vote is added to the game

[hollow creek]

Additional note, half of those events are spriter oriented and the other half competitive oriented

So expect what you would from that

[stuck bane]

(I also imagine if a winner picks something that wins the main vote frog will allow them another choice)

[trail hull]

oh wow

That means that troll choices aren't necessarily a bad omen

[stuck bane]

Depends on your definition of troll, but yeah

It separates from the main vote because special vote people are here, listening to our arguments of dragons and fairies and what not

[hollow creek]

Troll choices are very unlikely from the event winners

[snow scroll]

it'd be funny if each of the 12 ended up picking a different choice

[trail hull]

yeah I said troll because it was easier to explain

[snow scroll]

leaving the vote still undecided

[stuck bane]

Xenophalicus (guy who picked meloetta) almost let the voices win to pick wurmple

[stuck bane]

They probably will, as repeats aren’t allowed frog said

[snow scroll]

how do you determine a winner then 😭

bribe one of your fellow contestants?

[stuck bane]

Jojo asked if she won, if she could vote Slurpuff again, and he said no (but she could give Slurpuff a 3)

[hollow creek]

Key word: ALMOST

[stuck bane]

If you win, you have 11 options to choose from. You aren’t allowed to pick your own. A tie is possible, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it

[velvet root]

Would have been hilarious

[stuck bane]

But a tie is also very unlikely

[hollow creek]

Im predicting a tie between slurpuff and another mon

[snow scroll]

oh no, I meant like

if this were a circle of twelve people, hypothetically

and instead of picking themselves, each person picked the one next to them

so we'd end up with a perfect tie of 1 (x12)

[hollow creek]

depending on what the other 10 picks are

[stuck bane]

You think people are actually selfless enough to do that? I envy your optimism, but these are all different walks of life, competitive to spriter to dex entry, they won’t agree on anything

If they all agree and make it a 12 way tie, that’s up to frog to decide

[snow scroll]

i forgot to mention the part where this was also a joke

im aware

that the odds of a tie like that are borderline impossible

💀

[trail hull]

unless we managed to convicne the voters

[candid sigil]

which game version is the current one

[stuck bane]

See downloads

[snow scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/el-lleve-shake-hands-money-bribery-gif-17761609

[stuck bane]

Part of me wants to believe frog would applaud such sportsmanship and add them all in, but who knows

[candid sigil]

is it to late to vote Im just back from vacation

[stuck bane]

See pinned messages

[trail hull]

while a 12 way tie is probably impossible it could be a thing to try

[snow scroll]

just in time, actually :>

(vote castform please)

[stuck bane]

I’m not stopping ya

[snow scroll]

if we're being realistic

a rerun of the vote would probably happen

[stuck bane]

Endless loop

[snow scroll]

as fun as an "everyone wins" ending would be

that, or the dev just picks the one he likes best out of the 12

also solves it

[stuck bane]

The latter is probably correct

[marble meadow]

Interesting but I can see potential in slurpuff

[snow scroll]

please give slurpuff belly drum

it'd be so funny

[stuck bane]

It should get it, lemme check

[civic harness]

Again, more reasons to win one of the events

[stuck bane]

It gets it as an egg move in Gen 7 at the very least, so it would be possible to obtain

[candid sigil]

Im confused avalugg is listed but he is already in

[velvet root]

he isnt

[candid sigil]

omg the sprite I chose fooled me

[velvet root]

what did you choose

[snow scroll]

i'm not skilled enough at spriting or battles to make it 😔

maybe next year

[civic harness]

There is a Emote Contest

32x32 sprite

I mean

You make it in 32x32 an later you resize it in x3

[snow scroll]

either that or the pokedex entry ig

can't make it in time for the emote one

[civic harness]

6 days left

[snow scroll]

👀

[civic harness]

For the end of the Emote Contest

[snow scroll]

I'll try it, then :>

[feral spruce]

wait you have to make it in 32x32

i alr made 2 sprites in 64x64 am i doomed

one submitted

[eager jungle]

Hey, here's an argument on why you should vote for Eelektross, it'll give you some eldritch horrors like this one ? Wait, you would said that it's not an argument, but let me remind you that we have Pinsir in the game that already makes some Eldritch horrors, so why not having some diversity ?

[analog stag]

Genuinely the best result would be each of the 12 voters coming together to work on a 12 way tie

[eager jungle]

or each of the 12 voters voting for the same pokémon

[bitter comet]

Man, I love that thing. It gives cool horror vibes. ❤️

[eager jungle]

thx

[sick edge]

I do wonder, if all the second votes choose something different, what would be the deciding factor for the new pokemon? a tie breaker?

[feral spruce]

the tie breaker is a fight to death

[azure salmon]

We won’t add any at all

[feral spruce]

all of us fight to the death and the one that lives chooses

all of them*(

[azure salmon]

If the votes mess up and get a tie we are never adding new Pokemon

[feral spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-yellow-gif-4790356974580182569

same energy

[stuck bane]

…Does the same energy make you wanna vote Eelektross 3?

[eager jungle]

could you add my boy (trevenant/eelektross to it) ?

[clear lichen]

Mild nitpicking, but Eelektross does not have good stats

[stuck bane]

I didn’t make it, take it up with exo, but he’d probably love to have it in

[eager jungle]

alone no, fusion wise yes

[stuck bane]

Eelektross: electric type with levitate guaranteed (it’s an electric type no matter if it’s a head or body fusion, unlike rotom), eel fusions, and good attack and special attack, also the only electric type to learn acid spray, and the only electric type able to learn bind naturally, and the only electric type to learn acid, and the only electric type to learn coil, and the only electric type to learn crush claw, and the only pure electric type with access to gastro acid, and also the only electric type able to learn headbutt naturally

[clear lichen]

It underperforms despite having a decent movepool and 0 weaknesses (though lacking resistances)

[stuck bane]

It has good attack and special attack

[clear lichen]

But yeah you could use its stats for something

[stuck bane]

Versatile

[candid sigil]

regiice with torterra

[stuck bane]

Like being able to be head or body electric type with levitate

[clear lichen]

I wouldn't call that good attack and SpA

[eager jungle]

like, fuse it with a speedy special or physical attacker and you have a great combo

[clear lichen]

I mean it's not bad

But it's usable

[candid sigil]

thought I fused it with torterra

[clear lichen]

Personally I'd go all in on defensive and fuse it with something to improve the type defensively and to give to Recover or some other recovery move

Since its speed is too low to really save

[stuck bane]

https://pokemondb.net/pokedex/eelektross

Pokémon database puts it in the green, therefore it’s good

Not great, but good

[eager jungle]

speed isn't really this much important in this game

[clear lichen]

Yeah it's decent

But not good or great

Especially for its speed

[eager jungle]

plus, you can always do a trick room or whatever the english name is for the move that makes slow go fast and fast go slow team

[clear lichen]

Trick Room is the name yeah

[stuck bane]

Ok if green isn’t good what is good

[clear lichen]

But you'd definitely want to forgo speed for bulk

[snow scroll]

spam bulk up and counter/mirror coat

[clear lichen]

For a Pokemon that speed I'd want at least 125

[clear lichen]

Why Bulk Up? You learn Coil

[gusty palm]

Hey chat am I cooking or nah

[snow scroll]

coil is also fine tbh

just something that'll let you take hits and deal them back

[clear lichen]

Coil allows you to use more inaccurate moves that you might otherwise not want to use

[eager jungle]

Anyways, vote 3 for :

• Eelektross
• Gogoat
• Golisopod
• Vikavolt

[clear lichen]

Tbf Eelektross doesn't learn too many of those

But it does learn some

[eager jungle]

and i'm going to bed, so good night, day or whatever depending on your timezone !

[stuck bane]

Gn

[clear lichen]

Gn

But yeah it has decent stats

Nothing really outstanding

That's what the fusions are for

[stuck bane]

That’s why we want it in fusions so it can be good

[clear lichen]

Increasing the stats

[clear lichen]

Yeah that's why it's a nitpick

Because it's more so me arguing that no, it doesn't have good stats, the point is misleading

Than me saying "it has bad stats so it shouldn't be added"

[gray vine]

in a game about fusions, the main point should be about fusions

[clear lichen]

Yeah so you fuse it

I dont get what I'm saying that is so confusing

[stuck bane]

Take that up with the Pokémon database, the criteria I used was green being good, dark green being great, and anything higher amazing

[clear lichen]

It has bad stats, you want to fuse it to make them good

Simple

[gray vine]

or fuse it with whatever you want

[clear lichen]

PokemonDB looks at things in a vacuum then

[gray vine]

and play this not comp singleplayxer game

[clear lichen]

In an older generation, yeah 115 is pretty good

[stuck bane]

Should it be bias instead?

[clear lichen]

But in a later gen, it falls off

Especially when your speed is 50

I guess to be fair to Eelektross, its Attack is probably good in Gen 7

SpA is still only really decent

But it should work

Let me put it this way, if Eelektross had good stats, shouldn't it be used more often by players who play to win

Wouldn't it be in a higher Singles tier than RU at best, and ZU at worst?

(PU in Gen 7, the particular generation Infinite Fusion is based off)

And like I said, just because it doesn't have great stats doesn't mean you can't optimise it via fusion

I dont get what I'm saying that's hard to understand

[dim sparrow]

slurpuff nice

[clear lichen]

True

[trail hull]

I wanted to go to sleep but there’s something that kept me up , if we’re celebrating 500k why don’t frogman add 30 mons to reach 500 in dex number

[silk narwhal]

oh damn

[stuck bane]

I get what you’re saying, and I will repeat it back to you to clarify completely

Eelektross does have good attack and special attack, this is an objective fact looking at the numbers

You are looking at it from competitive only where speed is the biggest determining factor

That does not apply to infinite fusion. The stats you see are the stats you get, smogon viability be damned

It objectively has good stats

[stuck bane]

This is a very good argument as to how many extra slots frog himself may add (through other votes like mod and spriter and stuff) but let’s not put 100% faith in it

[hollow creek]

all of the starters, 9*3=27 + approximately 3 mons = 30

[prime dust]

i'd rather the next update not take like 4-6 months

no offense

[stuck bane]

If the winners of main and special vote = 3, that may be something he has planned

[silk narwhal]

1: they're not adding starters

[stuck bane]

But unlikely that it is

[silk narwhal]

2: they're not adding gen 8-9 mons

[hollow creek]

its a funny haha im not serious

[stuck bane]

In the main vote at least, frog can add whatever he wants himself regardless of votes

2. Unova, kalos, and alola, 9x3= 27, none of those are Gen 8+

[silk narwhal]

what fusions do i do for the elusive pokedex

[stuck bane]

Here’s how I see it, frog sends out the votes and then has back up plans to add mons that get us to an even number

Like, if Slurpuff and Maractus make it in (neigh impossible), then there’s 27 slots left and he may choose to add starters

However, if something like Golisopod and archeops win the votes, he then rounds it out to like 480-490 or something of choices that he wants in (or however many k people are in the server by the end of the vote if he wants to be funny)

[gleaming river]

I remember someone saying that he cant add Pokemons from Galar forward right ?

Gen 8 forward i guess

[prime dust]

so to clarify, it is possible, but would take a lot more time

at the moment it is more of a "better safe than sorry" since Frog would need to manually code in abilities and moves for gen 8+, and that has a high chance risk to break everything

this

[terse fable]

Yea, feels like priority would be the mons easiest to put in now before even bothering to mess with higher gen mons

[proud lion]

Figured Swirlix Line would get a shot at some point

[trail hull]

Lol that would be cool , also frog said that they might be extra additions so maybe

[terse fable]

I'm glad Slurpuff was picked by the winner of Dog Days, good on them 🙂

[north sorrel]

Tinkaton is hype. I rest my case

[trail hull]

Yeah they had a dog day so they deserve it

[compact fiber]

Agreed 👍

[trail hull]

Can’t join in sadly (no gen8+)

[north sorrel]

Damn

[opaque ether]

Fortunately for me, the only two I want are from Gen 3.
Unfortunately for me, it may be a while before they end up making it in. Pray I'm wrong though.

[terse fable]

I gave all doggo's 3's

they deserve it

[edgy dune]

I would like to once again begin canvassing for Deerling and Sawsbuck. My primary argument is simply that they are my son's favourite Pokémon and he would be thrilled if they were added. If it sways you further it is in fact his birthday in a week, and if you were to give them at least a two you would be giving a child a nice birthday kindness.

[hexed agate]

I'm sorry, but I really dislike mullet dog

[opaque ether]

I know. I've seen several dissenting opinion posts from you.

[clear lichen]

Wanted to find the average Attack of all fully evolved Pokemon to see if Eelektross really does have objectively great attack but holy shit that'd be too tedious

Bulbapedia would be the best source as it lists the statistical averages of all fully evolved Pokemon for each type

But I'd need to count how many fully evolved Pokemon each type has

And I have no clue if it includes alternate forms and if so which alternate forms it includes

Looking at the seperate pages though I get the impression it's somewhat above average but not quite good or great

[edgy dune]

Yo I might be able to do this for you, hold on

[clear lichen]

Weirdly, Eelektross' SpA might be more outstanding than its Attack

Through the pages I've been checking it seems that Attack is overall higher

[hexed agate]

not everyone can handle being right that many times

[clear lichen]

But with all the seperate Pokemon to take into account I really don't know how practical it would be to check this way

[edgy dune]

Nevermind, my stats database doesn't specify where it is on the evolution chain so I cannot find you the average

[clear lichen]

You'd have to at the very least count how many fully evolved Pokemon each type has

Like I said, doesn't seem worth the trouble

All I can tell is that it's probably somewhat above average but not overwhelmingly so

Not quite good or great but decent

Though I guess that's subjective

Obviously it good great decent etc should be based around an average

But people can agree or disagree about the exact details

The average attack might be around 100, I can't tell for sure

90-100 I want to say

And I'd say that would put Eelektross' attack as decent but not good or great

But others might disagree

For reference, Eelektross' Attack is 115

[hexed agate]

any stat at 100 is decent enough for most applications

[clear lichen]

Anyways, it does have a solid foundation

[edgy dune]

I can tell you the average attack stat of all Pokemon, including megas and other alternage forms, is 81.

[clear lichen]

It has decent moves and decent stats

[hexed agate]

Eelektross just lacks direction tbh

[clear lichen]

I'd assume that'd include NFEs too

Since the stats I was finding were generally higher than 81

Even for Psychic

Which is generally seen as a more specially oriented type

[hexed agate]

it's got okay bulk too, just has a bad speed tier

[edgy dune]

Yeah I have a database including all currently release 'mon stats (except Pecharunt I think) but no way to sort them by evolution level except by hand

[clear lichen]

Eelektross is overall just kinda mid in terms of stats

It's OK but it doesnt have anything too noteworthy

As a result, if it wants to be defensive it performs poorly

[hexed agate]

it can go anyways

[clear lichen]

And if it wants to be offensive, it still performs poorly

Which is exactly what fusions are for

Personally, I'd try to fuse it with a defensive Steel type to take advantage of it being an Electric Type with Levitate

The only other one is Rotom iirc, and Rotom's stats are defensively poor

Steel would give it a bunch of resistances, and with the correct Pokemon in the right order could dramatically increase its bulk

Preferably it also would get reliable recovery (Recover for example)

[hexed agate]

it can also fuse well with rock types bc of levitate

[clear lichen]

Electric Rock has a lot less resistances than Electric/Steel

And 1 more weakness

So I'd definitely be inclined to pick Steel

[hexed agate]

true, but it enables some different strategies

[clear lichen]

In fact, since Roost only Removes the Flying type and doesn't ground the user, I already have an idea of a Pokemon it could fuse with

Skarmory

Which also provides Spikes

The main issue is that Skarmory is specially frail

So this fusion would be too

And also I don't really see much synergy between Skarmory and Eelektross in terms of design

[hexed agate]

it remedies most of Skarm, you just need a fire check

so it'd fit well in a rain team, maybe

[clear lichen]

Wish on Jirachi could work as well

[hexed agate]

though steel/electric has far worse stats

[clear lichen]

Wish would allow for wishpassing strats too

Does Scizor get Roost in Gen 7?

It does

Though it has slightly lower HP and more Defence

So the fusion would become specially frailer due to losing HP but physically bulkier I'd imagine, since the defence difference is high

I guess Solgaleo would technically be the best option with Morning Sun, whenever it gets added

But it's a legendary

[hexed agate]

Bastiodon isn't a horrible pick actually

[clear lichen]

Despite not providing reliable recovery, Ferrothorn could potentially be the best candidate in terms of viability

It does not have Synthesis but it does have Leech Seed

Ferrothorn also has extremely high bulk and a good support movepool

[hexed agate]

also an usable attack stat

[clear lichen]

The problem is, Ferrothorn would arguably be about as good as this fusion standalone

Because Ferrothorn is just GOATed

But hey it's a game about fusions

And honestly the fact that it isn't just a downgrade is pretty good

Because whenever I look for Ferrothorn fusions all the fusions I want to use are just worse than Ferrothorn

[hexed agate]

true

[clear lichen]

Ferrothorn is crazy what can I say

[hexed agate]

typically whatever I fuse with it gives it reliability

or you can run Clefthorn

[clear lichen]

As in Recover, Synthesis etc?

[hexed agate]

Fairy Steel is nice

[clear lichen]

Yeah Fairy/Steel is one of the few type combos that can hold up defensively in comparison to Grass/Steel

They're all Steel types

Because Steel is crazy

[hexed agate]

charjabug would be nice for doubles

[clear lichen]

Clefable/Ferrothorn would probably be really good

[unique flame]

Swirlix/slurpuff was such a based pick theres a lot you can do in the candy theme

[hexed agate]

with Vikavolt being an okay singles steroid

[unique flame]

Who was the hero

[clear lichen]

You have multiple good abilities to pick from, good type, good movepool including hazards and recovery etc

[hexed agate]

@agile sun

Vikavolt/Heatran is still one of the fav fusions I've used (in a draft league)

[crimson robin]

Honestly what were the pokemon designers smoking? I know they probably just went with whatever seemed logical, but did Steel really need to resist 12 types at release?

[hexed agate]

the choice between no weakness and ground immunity is nice

[agile sun]

was me putting slurpuff on that raffle too

[clear lichen]

How do Infinite Fusion drafts work actually?

Like do you draft seperate Pokemon and then have the option to fuse them?

[hexed agate]

it's only super-effective on rock and ice

and now Fairy

[clear lichen]

Drafting fusions directly would have too many options I'd imagine

[clear lichen]

The same stuff they did when making Gen 1 probably

[hexed agate]

yeah, we drafted 18 mons to be used in our fusions

[silk narwhal]

aaand one sprite concept art done

[clear lichen]

Normal is so cracked in Gen 1

Psychic as well but everyone knows that

[silk narwhal]

clawitzer/meloetta

[clear lichen]

When your tier has an undisputed top 3 that you should use on every team and they're all mono Normal it's hard to argue against Normal being the best type in Gen 1

The next 3 are all Psychic types though so it's arguable anyways

[hexed agate]

but yeah, between levitate fire/electric and flash fire bug/steel, VIkavolt/Heatran (or the reverse) are super nice

[gray vine]

thats pretty normal

man so many times i come here and its just comp talk

[clear lichen]

Heatran/Vikavolt sounds like Mind Games²

[gray vine]

[clear lichen]

It's a lot easier to talk about how good a Pokemon is objectively than how good a Pokemon is subjectively

[silk narwhal]

it's a really complex design as usual

that's the problem with drawing concepts on paper

at first i wanted to give her a really big claw, then it became a weird mawile type mouth

[clear lichen]

Everyone's gonna have different opinions on design but no matter how much you like Unown it's gonna be trash in battle

[silk narwhal]

now it's just gaster blasters

[gray vine]

i mean sure? but it being good doesnt compare to what fusons it could make. if i like a mon i would take that even when a nerd says its not good

[clear lichen]

Same here

[gray vine]

but i get what ya mean

[clear lichen]

But since that's subjective it's way too hard to elaborate on

[hexed agate]

Kommo-o Serperior would have a cool design and be bad to deal with

[clear lichen]

Other than just going "yeah OK I understand why you like/do not like this Pokemon"

[gray vine]

thats something you can say for competetive too

[hexed agate]

you mean me dropping every 12 hours or so to agree or disagree with someone's incorrect opinion?

[clear lichen]

Not really? Nobody's gonna argue against Landorus-Therian being good and conversely nobody's gonna argue against Articuno being bad

They could argue about whether or not you should vote based off competitive but that'd be entirely different than arguing about how good a Pokemon is in competitive

[cloud flume]

hasn't articuno been not too bad recently?

[clear lichen]

I guess in VGC it did something

[hexed agate]

tera is not in the game, neither is snow

[clear lichen]

In Singles yeah no don't bother

[cloud flume]

ah that checks out

[clear lichen]

And in Gen 7, especially don't bother

You could use it for fusions though

[gray vine]

i dunno, if you lose with an articuno, thats kinda bad

[alpine rune]

Tbf it's because of the snow buff in general

[clear lichen]

And then talk about how good its fusions are

[alpine rune]

And yea tera isn't in the game

[clear lichen]

And to be fair I guess Articuno would be decent in fusions

[gray vine]

anything would

[clear lichen]

It'd need a sizeable speed and damage boost but it wouldn't be impossible

[gray vine]

the game is against npcs

[alpine rune]

It's just Ice that's bad ngl

[clear lichen]

And if it isn't?

[gray vine]

it is

[hexed agate]

Articuno adds okay bulk to most things

[clear lichen]

Competitive Pokemon is PVP not PVE

And there is a showdown server

[gray vine]

but inf fusion is pve

[clear lichen]

Ice is decent

Defensively? It's trash

Offensively? Top 3 type

[gray vine]

thats showdown lul, not this game

[alpine rune]

No it really isn't

[clear lichen]

But then gamefreak makes the majority of Ice Pokemon defensive

[cloud flume]

its ok at best, the lack of any and all defences kinda kill it when there are equally good offensive types

[clear lichen]

And whoops there goes any semblance of viability

[clear lichen]

Yeah so it is decent

Synonymous

[alpine rune]

Its good coverage against dragon's sure, but there comes fairy types

Ground and grass have water and fire to counter it

Fire in general has more coverage than Ice

[clear lichen]

Ground, Flying and Dragon are great types to counter with 1 move

All of these are good defensive types that you'll see on defensive Pokemon

[alpine rune]

And if you really want to hit everyone neutrally, dark and ghost types really do the job more

[clear lichen]

Water and Steel resisting it is of course not the greatest but you can't really ask for a type to be completely and utterly uncontested

[clear lichen]

Dark is stopped by the best type in the game

Which is very unfortunate

[alpine rune]

Then ghost types just have the best neutral coverage cuz only resisted by dark and only immune to normal

[hexed agate]

Zebstrika would give use a fairly good enabler pokemon

[clear lichen]

Ghost is definitely a top 5 type though

Comparing a top 5 type to an OK type is obviously gonna make the OK type look bad

[hexed agate]

Sap Sipper or Motor Drive option is nice

[clear lichen]

Dark does hit a top 5 type for SE so that's nice

[hexed agate]

boltbeam coverage is still nice because of fairy/steel types

[clear lichen]

Ghost is more known for offensive prowess tbf

Defensively it isn't anything outstanding

It isn't bad though

Definitely not

A type I'd define as bad is one that manages to be bad both defensively and offensively, and Ice is great offensively which marks it off the list for me

It'd be between Bug and Psychic for sure

Bug has some redeeming qualities though

Psychic kinda just exists

[hexed agate]

bug has okay matchups and gives access to a lot of exclusive set-up moves

[clear lichen]

I guess you resist Fighting that's cool

[hexed agate]

Psychic is nice in conjunction with other types

[clear lichen]

But you're weak to the 2 most spammable moves in the game

And one of the most spammable types in the game

That's never a good sign defensively

Hitting Poison for SE is pretty good though, Poison is a pretty decent defensive type

But it isn't that big of a deal

Especially since Ground is a common attacking type

Why do so many things get Earthquake

[analog stag]

Imo Psychic is like the most nothing type tbh

I never think about it

[clear lichen]

Psychic hits Fighting for SE as well

But that's kinda it for positives

It's also resisted by the 2nd best type in the game

And a decent type in Dark

It kinda just does mostly nothing

It's definitely better offensively

[upper echo]

psychic has psychic terrain

but that's it

[clear lichen]

But it still is bad offensively

[upper echo]

and that's mostly doubles

tbh

[clear lichen]

I'm mostly talking type chart

And Psychic's is either as dire or more dire than Bug's

Those are like the 2 worst types IMO

[upper echo]

would rather bug to psychic most of the time

just bug type pokemon are held back by the pokemon

[clear lichen]

The difference between Bug and Psychic and why they're viewed so differently

[upper echo]

and stats

[clear lichen]

Is because Gamefreak loves making Psychic type legendaries

And other strong Psychic types with good stats and/or movepools

[hexed agate]

it also hits poison types SE, which is nice

[clear lichen]

But even that is failing them recently

[upper echo]

they've been doing good recently

idk

[clear lichen]

Lati twins, Alakazam, Metagross

They're all starting to fall off massively

[upper echo]

those are pretty old pokemon

[clear lichen]

Latios was Ubers for quite a long time

Even with Soul Dew fully banned

So you can't just say "Oh it fell to UU because they nerfed Soul Dew"

[hexed agate]

Calyrex is falling off

[clear lichen]

God I wish

[upper echo]

calyrex my fav falling off mon

I love psy spam

[clear lichen]

Calyrex Shadow's stats are so absurd that if it actually falls off Psychic will have cemented itself as the worst type in the game

[gray vine]

it better

should break its legs

[crimson robin]

I think part of the ice type problem is that every water type gets Ice Beam. There's not much reason to run an ice type

[gray vine]

never return

[upper echo]

nah
they got psy spam

[clear lichen]

STAB boost is a very good reason

[upper echo]

even with caly they are good

[clear lichen]

Ah yes, the top tier Psychic Terrain setter

Indeedee

Man, I miss the Tapus

[upper echo]

it genuinely is top tier

[clear lichen]

Maybe in VGC

In Singles yeah hehe no

[hexed agate]

Espathra

[crimson robin]

But there still aren't many ice types running around. I think there would be more if they took Ice Beam off every random water. It's a strong enough offensive type

[upper echo]

I mean psychic is doing pretty good in the official format

[hexed agate]

make freeze-dry more accessible

[upper echo]

for several formats in a row

[clear lichen]

You could give Calm Mind+Speed Boost+Stored Power to a disabled baby and it'd be broken

In a generation with Terastalisation especially

[upper echo]

can't believe gallade is good 😭

[hexed agate]

like bug types and their tools, they're tied to the type

[upper echo]

stab stored power goes brr

[clear lichen]

Yeah and that type is a weakness to them

In pure type chart, Psychic is worse

But Gamefreak gives Psychic types really great abilities and stats

[upper echo]

I'd say psychic is better just because the tools and mons

[hexed agate]

I still like hitting poison types

[upper echo]

bug is held back by the pokemon

[clear lichen]

Bug type is definitely held back by Pokemon

[upper echo]

if there were more good bug types it'd be more up to contention

[clear lichen]

We have like 5-7 good Bug types

[hexed agate]

esp because everyone builds around not dealing with ground types

bugs have their niches

we love web setting

[upper echo]

psychic is in a better spot then most types rn

tbh

[clear lichen]

Genesect, Volcarona, Pheromosa, Scizor, Buzzwole, I don't think there's a 6th guys I might've miscounted

[upper echo]

the new regional bug

[hexed agate]

Galvantula and Ribombee have utility

[upper echo]

the dark type one is decent

[hexed agate]

Lokix

[upper echo]

genuinely pretty good

[clear lichen]

Yeah actually Lokix is the 6th probably

We found the 6th guy

Very nice

[upper echo]

it's keeping hoopa unbound bound to rubl

[hexed agate]

Kleavor is also in the same tier as Scizor in natdex iirc

[clear lichen]

A 4× Bug weakness would keep most Pokemon terrible

Has Hoopa-U ever even been Ubers?

680 BST btw

[upper echo]

mid ass distribution tho

[clear lichen]

We love 4× Bug weakness

We love being a slow frail mixed attacker

Don't we?

[gray vine]

that ojne screams middle evo to me

[upper echo]

I love mixed rampardos

[gray vine]

i had it on my team so long waiting for it to evolve

[hexed agate]

it screams uninspired to me but

[gray vine]

kicked it out when it never did

[clear lichen]

One of the Competitive moments of all time

[upper echo]

lokix feels like it should evolve in the 25s

[hexed agate]

I love Rampardos running special moves to catch people offgaurd in gen 4

[upper echo]

and it does

[clear lichen]

I love being gifted with an amazing type but then being hit by the slow frail mixed attacker stat spread while having the same BST as Basculin

[upper echo]

lokix really has less bst then basculin

[hexed agate]

while Bugs don't rule OU, they're pivotal in most other tiers

[clear lichen]

No I was referring to Camerupt

Bug/Dark isn't exactly amazing

And Lokix isn't a mixed attacker

Lokix really shows how strong Tinted Lens and First Impression are

[upper echo]

bugs are either uu or ubers
never ou

[clear lichen]

Tinted Lens is an insane ability

[clear lichen]

Volcarona in every generation apart from Gen 9

[hexed agate]

not without megas or powercreep

[upper echo]

tinted lens is held back by being only on low stated bugs

[finite reef]

And Lokix

[clear lichen]

Tbf Volcarona is the exception

Not the rule

[upper echo]

450 bst

[clear lichen]

550 BST, Quiver Dance, actually good distribution, good movepool apart from not being able to hit Heatran

It has managed to stay good in OU even without the funny shoes

[hexed agate]

I can't wait for Tera to roll over

[upper echo]

yeah gimmie dynamax 2

I liked it

[hexed agate]

I want Heracross to not be PU because Tera

[upper echo]

nothing will save heracross

[clear lichen]

Staraptor in PU

Misery

[finite reef]

From UUbl straight down to PU...

[clear lichen]

Flamigo is either as good or not far behind Staraptor

This is both a good and a bad thing

Good because once Tera is gone it probably rises a few tiers

Bad because Tera isn't gone yet

And this isn't a very good first impression to make

That being said this mf is obtainable before you even get to the first Pokemon Center

[upper echo]

vanilluxe would've loved tera 💔

[split fulcrum]

Hear me out, can we get a petition going to get Beartic in the game

[clear lichen]

Flamigo is hilariously insane for an early game Pokemon

I guess you probably should've expected the flamingo to beat up the babies

[upper echo]

azumarill is also mad early too

[clear lichen]

But still

[clear lichen]

True

But casual players may not think to get Huge Power

[upper echo]

but veluza is mad late

[clear lichen]

Huge Powerless Azumarill is just a generic early game Pokemon

Flamigo is just insane no matter what ability it has

Because it is built different

Veluza is way too weak

I see they were trying to create Basculin 2

[upper echo]

horrible stats

horrible destribution

[clear lichen]

Except Basculin is arguably better

[snow scroll]

it's a shame you can't get huge power azumarill w/ belly drum here

[gray vine]

i mean Flamigo's Body is a Punching Glove

[snow scroll]

that alone would be enough to steamroll the league

😔

[upper echo]

I've been a azumarill assault vest user since forever

[clear lichen]

Hey what is it with us randomly discussing Pokemon that are coincidentally worse than Basculin

[upper echo]

no difference to me

[gray vine]

most things are good enough to steamroll that

[clear lichen]

Camerupt

Veluza

Who's next

Uhhhh

We need to complete the starter trio

Quick what's a Grass type that is way weaker than it should be

[gray vine]

starters arent part of the votes

[clear lichen]

This starter trio is made of 3 disappointingly weak normal Pokemon instead of actual starters

[snow scroll]

basculin is great tbh

adaptability + wave crash is a drug

[clear lichen]

Actually should just force myself to use only fusions of Camerupt, Veluza and whatever this 3rd Pokemon is

[gray vine]

Veluza isnt normal type

[clear lichen]

Even before that it wasn't half bad

I forgot Veluza cannot exist

Sad

[clear lichen]

Also, yes

It is in fact not a normal type

[gray vine]

Veluza has an interesting design but its a 1 stage mon so blurgh

[upper echo]

uhh the normal grass pokemon

both are zu

[gray vine]

also its fucking annoying in the game

[clear lichen]

Idk, if anything Arboliva is strong for what it is

It's like a literal early game Pokemon

You'd expect it to have -1 stats

[upper echo]

knockoff rillaboom helps

being a setter of any type always helps a mons viability

[clear lichen]

Like those stats are genuinely not terrible

[upper echo]

peliper glow up is crazy

[clear lichen]

Maybe in an earlier generation Arboliva wouldn't be ZU

510 for an early game mon with a good ability?

Unheard of

Actually is it unheard of?

Idk I'm assuming

[upper echo]

wouldn't call it early anymore

lvl 35 evo

[clear lichen]

Smoliv is an early game common Pokemon

35 is decently early to evolve

[upper echo]

meh

[civic harness]

Hello there

[upper echo]

would say level 30 to 32 is when early game evos end

and enter mid game

[clear lichen]

And the difference between 33 and 35 isn't very big

Yet Camerupt has 460 BST

510 is rather high I feel

Like for a normal Pokemon

[upper echo]

nah that's like 6th gym area

[clear lichen]

Actually if anything this reinforces the fact that Camerupt is far too weak

[quaint mauve]

I mean, for frame of reference most of my fusion preferences are in the 450-480 range, so having better than that on stock is higher octane.

[upper echo]

never used it
all I know is it has stab eruption

[clear lichen]

Camerupt needs some sort of buff

[clear lichen]

Slow frail mixed attacker with the same BST as Basculin

If you use it, use it in a very early generation or use Mega Camerupt

[upper echo]

damn

[clear lichen]

Fire/Ground is a good type

[upper echo]

just offensively

[clear lichen]

It's a shame this guy is the only Pokemon aside from Pdon that has it

[upper echo]

having a 4x water weakness is horrible

[quaint mauve]

While it is a glaring weakness, it still only has two weaknesses and five resistences

Slower pokemon are perfectly viable, you just cant throw it out there willy nilly like ive seen some of you do with legendaries

[clear lichen]

And so is having a 4× Fire weakness but you don't see people calling Ferrothorn's type mid

[upper echo]

fire isn't nearly as common as water

[clear lichen]

Fire/Ground isn't bad offensively, definitely not good but it isn't bad at least

Wait defensively

Man my brain is fried

[quaint mauve]

I'm going to squint at that comment until it makes sense.

[clear lichen]

Its immunity and resistances are great and it only has 2 (admittedly common) types

[upper echo]

another diff is how many resistances

[clear lichen]

It's like Grass/Steel but with a lot less resistances

So I'd hesitate to call it a bad defensive type

Certainly not good but not bad either

[upper echo]

I dunno the reason why grass steel is good is because of said resistances

[clear lichen]

Yup, and 5 resistances is still a decent amount

And those resistances are great

[upper echo]

being weak to water and ground is so much worse then being weak to fire and fighting

[clear lichen]

Just that the weaknesses are not

[clear lichen]

I wouldn't so so much worse

Definitely worse but not that much

[upper echo]

fighting attacks are so much rarer then ground

and fire is rarer then water

[clear lichen]

Idk Close Combat is pretty common

[upper echo]

honestly no

[clear lichen]

It is rarer but not "so much" rarer

I'm not saying it's good I'm saying it isn't hot garbage

Camerupt on the other hand is

460 BST slow frail mixed attacker

Sounds like Hoenn

[upper echo]

I'd say it's pretty bad
the only time it was good was on a pokemon which lost a 4x weakness

[clear lichen]

Please stop giving cool Pokemon terrible stats

[upper echo]

cause of it's ability

[quaint mauve]

the fact that having 70-75 defense is considered frail these days is a damn crime by the way

[clear lichen]

The only other time we see it is a sad excuse for a Pokemon

[upper echo]

at least it isn't fire rock tho

[clear lichen]

Ykw, let's call it even

We don't have a fair comparison since Camerupt is ridiculously bad and Pdon is ridiculously good

[upper echo]

70 to 75 defenses is frail if you got low hp

if you got 80 hp then it's ok

but below that it is honestly frail

[clear lichen]

You could give Camerupt an insane defensive type and it still wouldn't do much of anything

Camerupt got done dirty with its stats

A lot of Gen 3 did

[quaint mauve]

Also just, throwing it out there that ferrothorn is a loaded comparison, given its entire existence is to make things regret punching it.

[clear lichen]

Depending on the Pokemon doing it, it also makes things regret burning it

[quaint mauve]

and its stat efficiency shows it

[upper echo]

ferrothorn stats and resistances is crazy

[clear lichen]

228 SpA Diancie-Mega Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Ferrothorn: 276-328 (78.4 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ferrothorn moment

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (116 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 436-520 (180.9 - 215.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO I don't think this needed to be shown

Those stats not in SpA went into attack since the Mega Diancie set I was using for the calc is mixed

[quaint mauve]

Camerupt is a neutrally good offensive pokemon, that needs some vague fucking form of support for people who dont know how to play with slow pokemon.
Rock Slide, Earthquake, Lava Plume. Or tm flamethrower im fairly confident.

[high haven]

Of course the dog days Mon is a dog

[quaint mauve]

Plus Solar Beam if your a cheeky git on Sun

[high haven]

Good for Slurpuff

[clear lichen]

Good? My brother in christ it only has 100 attack and SpA

[inland geyser]

who here is a minior lover

[clear lichen]

Wait does it have 100 attack?

[upper echo]

yeah 100 and 105

[clear lichen]

Yes but its SpA is 105

[quaint mauve]

100/105, which is more than perfectly fucking usable.

[upper echo]

but it's speed is 40

[quaint mauve]

Not everything has to be mewtwo

[clear lichen]

That's painfully average

[upper echo]

with those mid defenses

[clear lichen]

And the rest of its stats are poor

[hot hamlet]

I find it hilarious how one week later and this channel went from “propaganda of the new mon” to “discussing meta of the new mon”

[clear lichen]

Obviously, for a casual PVE playthrough, it works

[hot hamlet]

Pokémon players are wild

[clear lichen]

Just uhhh

Don't try to use it competitively

[clear lichen]

Yeah I need to cope about Camerupt being cool with a cool type but having bad stats somehow

[quaint mauve]

If i can take a goddamn Lopunny onto the ladder with Dizzy Punch, T Wave and fucking Attract you can make camerupt work in UU at least.

[civic harness]

I will have some propaganda if you want

[clear lichen]

You can take it on the ladder, yes

[hot hamlet]

Ice cream is cool