pif-hoenn-discussion

[fallen loom]

I mean we could just get more of them!

also Malamar reminds me of Ursula

[bitter comet]

True, and also glowing affects on the eldritch fusions

[stone cliff]

Omastar/Nidoking alt

[bitter comet]

Oooo

[stone cliff]

I know there's at least one more but I can't remember what the body is

[bitter comet]

I’ll have to send a mental reminder for myself to get that

[alpine rune]

Honestly, Pinsir/malamar would be an awesome Nyarlatothep reference

[stone cliff]

I remember my buddy getting a book that was the complete works of H.P. Lovecraft, but there was a note that was like "aight listen, I know we said 'complete works' but there's one that we omitted for being like, mega racist"

[white meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-kitten-cute-pussy-cat-gif-15745491

[fallen loom]

HP Hatecraft

[hollow quest]

HP Hatedisassemble

[dense inlet]

HP printer

[stone cliff]

Hate People Lovecraft

Or perhaps HP Hatecrime

[bitter comet]

To change the subject would be interesting if they added the Excadrill line

[stone cliff]

Mole would be neat

We technically have Diglett but I don't think it counts

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/whismur-wooper-swinub-seedot-larvitar-gif-7400288

[bitter comet]

What fusions would you guys most want to see on Excadrill?

Mine would be a fusion with dodiro for some reason

[stone cliff]

You're right, we do need Hariyama and Exploud and Shiftree

[pure flower]

It'd be nice if they finally make an out of rock version of diglett. Though, dugtrio is probably gonna be either like a bunch of them sharing the same body, or a bunch of vary sized moles huddling together

[dry nest]

True

Also Tony gunk: new pfp

[honest tartan]

most obvious fusion someone would make with excadrill ||other than hitmontop||

[bitter comet]

Would be nice if they added the shiftree line

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/heracross-pokémon-heracrosd-focus-punch-pokémon-focus-punch-heracross-uses-focus-punch-gif-26603919

[stone cliff]

Still mortified that they ended up putting my unfinished Zweilous/Hitmontop fusion in the game lmao

[honest tartan]

would you be less horrified if you finished the pokemon?

[stone cliff]

Probably, but I have motivation problems lmao

[bitter comet]

Can I have the photo of the sprite?

[stone cliff]

So it stands as a testament to my procrastination

[bitter comet]

Funny dude

I like them

[stone cliff]

The head needs work, and I gotta add the second head lmao

It's certainly not one I can imagine anyone seeing, but still wanna fix it lol

[honest tartan]

at least your pokemon have not suffered an attack from the facestealers

[stone cliff]

yet

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-gogoat-prajwal-gif-20189492

[alpine rune]

yknow

its going to be more than 470 mons by now

or at least 470 mons by the next update

assuming that we have all custom sprites for every possible combination

how big is the game going to get

[stone cliff]

I was gonna try to do the math but I remembered I ain't smart enough for that so

[bitter comet]

Going off topic to say that you have a cool PFP

[alpine rune]

I have 25 sprites and it totals around 100 kb

[stone cliff]

I forget if you use factorials to figure out this sort of list of combos

[alpine rune]

nvm my calcs are off

[stone cliff]

Ok so if I used the correct calculator, the total number of combinations is now going to be 220,900

I downloaded a custom sprite and it is about 7kb

Looking like the custom sprites themselves would be under 2GB assuming each fusion only had one sprite

Since there's many that have alts, it may hit or exceed the 2gb mark

That being said, the limiting factor at that point is the sheer number of files that have to be sifted through

[sturdy jungle]

Are there gonna be any more reveals?

[drowsy drift]

nope that's it

[sturdy jungle]

Ok

At least my boy got in

[drowsy drift]

just kidding

this saturday we should be getting something I think

[stone cliff]

There's 4 more votemons and 2 extra lines we'll be getting

[sturdy jungle]

Oh awesome!

Maybe we’ll get my boys Serperior and Samurott as well

[drowsy drift]

the 2 are spriter's picks and I'm not sure there's a schedule for announcing those yet but the 4 votemon announcements should be resuming either this saturday or next saturday

[stone cliff]

Idk if they're letting the extra lines be starters, but all starters were removed from votes

[native nebula]

Seedot like "Why am I stuck here with these freaks."

[sturdy jungle]

Aw man, I really wanted Serperior to see what great fusions I could make for a friend who’s computer isn’t strong enough to download and play the game

[native nebula]

No wonder he turns into a dark type.

[drowsy drift]

not strong enough to download the game??

[sturdy jungle]

His PC is practically a potato

[stone cliff]

The game needs a pretty decent processor to run tbh

[sturdy jungle]

And has like no storage cause of god knows why

I’ve tried to help him with the process tons of times and it never worked

[native nebula]

https://youtu.be/_3VtDH5czwE?si=sf4UiBBpxZNiHsJW

[sturdy jungle]

YOOOO EMKAY

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokémon-joltik-spider-charging-gif-1522631237631464847

[sturdy jungle]

Galvantula is awesome

[bitter comet]

Agreed

[native nebula]

child abuse

[stone cliff]

I have what would these days be considered a mid range build, and the game starts having some pretty wacky load times toward post game

[honest tartan]

you say this after you just saw them destroy their child?

[stone cliff]

Cull the weak

[sturdy jungle]

That’s a Joltik. They resist Electric.

[native nebula]

Looks he's crying lets electrocute him.

[native nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/swampert-wtf-okay-bye-mm-okey-gif-25890153

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-uppercut-damn-pickachu-ursaring-gif-16890404

[sturdy jungle]

Plus Joltik has higher attack than Onix you gonna tell me it’s weak

[bitter comet]

I know what a champ!

[honest tartan]

humans are 73% water, whats the harm in adding an extra 27%?

[stone cliff]

Damn, you can almost make out his fingers on the other side

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/ursaring-pokémon-ursaring-anger-bear-buizel-gif-26818814

ursaring is so brutal in the anime wtf

[native nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pikachu-sad-crying-pokemon-crying-gif-22096820

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/ursaring-pokémon-ursaring-chimchar-pokémon-chimchar-chimchar-vs-ursaring-gif-26192406

[native nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/seedot-gif-25300951

[sturdy jungle]

God imagine if that was Ursaluna. Nothing would be alive.

[native nebula]

God slayer seedot should be added.

[sturdy jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/lucario-bone-rush-gif-24107256 poor Chimchar gets bullied man

[honest tartan]

keep this upcoming gif from me in our head for the rest of your life. let this sink in.

[native nebula]

Seedot learns Explode for no reason at a high level and becomes a nuke.

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/xurkitree-gif-9674416

[hollow quest]

hell yeah

[drowsy drift]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokememes-funny-cute-frikoid-gif-23774684

[sturdy jungle]

MY FAVORITE ULTRA BEAST THERE THEY ARE

[native nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/let-that-sink-in-let-that-sink-in-meme-let-that-sink-gif-26164212

[hollow quest]

xurkitree, a certified goober

[bitter comet]

What a silly dude

[native nebula]

Okay now what? I let it in.

[sturdy jungle]

I’ll always let Xurkitree sit in my head

It’s my favorite Legend/Myth/Ultra Beast

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/xurkitree-pokemon-pokemon-refresh-gif-25200413

[native nebula]

When you have no arms but you still must nut.

[sturdy jungle]

Sir this is a Pokemon server

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-xurkitree-ultrabeast-pokemon-moon-pokemon-sun-gif-27302066

[stone cliff]

Blacephalon is my favorite UB by far

[sturdy jungle]

You are now my rival, Xurkitree for life

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokémon-blacephalon-jester-michael-jackson-gif-320684585084909410

[bitter comet]

I kind of like the paper thing UB I cannot remember the name of it, but it looks cool

[sturdy jungle]

Kartana is quite awesome

[bitter comet]

Yes, I think that was my first ultra beast although I can’t remember

[stone cliff]

Like, Blacephalon is just a goofy dude with a penchant for fireworks

[native nebula]

https://img.pokemondb.net/sprites/black-white/anim/normal/seedot.gif

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/kartana-furfrou-pokemon-sun-moon-gif-19000346

[stone cliff]

Yo what I thought it was like, small

[sturdy jungle]

https://tenor.com/view/guzzlord-nanu-pokemon-alola-gif-25117620

[honest tartan]

Kartana brought pokemon fusion to the anime, they clearly made furfrou/arceus PIF is real!!!!!!

[sturdy jungle]

Nanu is just so chill

[bitter comet]

I mean, it is relatively small compared to the other UBs

[white meadow]

this is what we could have if we get the best sinnoh pikachu clone in the game

[silent acorn]

Not very convincing.

[stone cliff]

I looked it up, it's a foot tall lmao

[silent acorn]

You need to try harder, supporting pachirisu is hard mode

[sturdy jungle]

I’m not convinced for Pachirisu

[honest tartan]

tbh pheramosa is my least favorite ultra beast after seeing it in the anime

[drowsy drift]

https://tenor.com/view/emolga-hearts-pokemon-cute-gif-20933875

[stone cliff]

Do we have any Squirrel pokemon aside from Pachirisu in yet?

[white meadow]

eh, i just picked three images, there's probably a lot more if you go down the rabbit hole

[silent acorn]

There is a minus two stages accuracy debuff when trying to.

[sturdy jungle]

That’s Guzzlord, not Pheramosa

[native nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/lilo-and-stitch-disney-movie-persuasive-convincing-gif-21243702

[bitter comet]

My favorite Pikachu clone

[white meadow]

besides guys, what other sinnoh pikachu clone do you want in game?

[sturdy jungle]

There’s only one Sinnoh Pika Clone and it’s the Pika Clone I want the least

[white meadow]

that's half the right mindset

[sturdy jungle]

Yeah I’ll say it EMOLGA FOR LIFE

[white meadow]

there's only one sinnoh pikachu clone, so if we're getting a sinnoh pikachu clone in game, it's gonna be pachirisu

[drowsy drift]

why have one when you can have two?

[honest tartan]

Pheraomsa seduces trainers (strike 1) and pokemon to try and steal Z Crystals (Strike 2) and then abandons pokemon when they've become useless like it's some kind of movie villain (strike 3)

[drowsy drift]

https://tenor.com/view/minun-and-plusle-gif-22976988

[white meadow]

then name the other sinnoh pikachu clone

i was talking about a single sinnoh pikachu clone, then you said "why have one when you can have two", so haha interpreting it as "two sinnoh pikachu clones" :V

[sturdy jungle]

Emolga and Morpeko are the two best Pika Clones change my mind

[white meadow]

only if morpeko has an actual tail

[sturdy jungle]

Who cares about a tail?????

[bitter comet]

I agree with the first one, but personally I like the spiky orb Pikachu clone better than the second one you mentioned

[white meadow]

i don't like the design on the back that looks like a tail

[sturdy jungle]

Bro Psycho why you lookin at the Morpeko’s butt. Not cool mate

[honest tartan]

funny how the anime used chimchar as their punching bag but the second it became infernape they literally turned it into goku

[sturdy jungle]

I found a gif of Lucario beatin the crap out of it alongside the Ursaring one you found

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/infernape-pokemon-infernape-blaze-infernape-blaze-gif-24955242

[white meadow]

just get rid of that yellow fake tail or give it an actual tail

[sturdy jungle]

Why are you looking at its butt you wierdo

I’m kidding in case you couldn’t tell

[white meadow]

this isn't some tiger lego set bro

[honest tartan]

why are you using pokemon? you are enslaving them and pitting them in illegal animal fights

[white meadow]

seriously, what were the designers thinking

[sturdy jungle]

Idk, what were they thinkin when making a stupid electric squirrel?

[white meadow]

you talking about pikachu, the mascot of the entire pokemon franchise?

[hollow quest]

pheromosa is so unhinged, but i still love her head tilt when you interact with her

[honest tartan]

same thing they were on when they made the other pikachu clones

[hollow quest]

https://tenor.com/view/shiny-pokemon-pheromosa-ultra-beast-blink-gif-13903531

[sturdy jungle]

No, Pikachus a rat. I’m referring to Pachirisu

[white meadow]

but i like it

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/pheromosa-shiny-dance-gif-25434188

[sturdy jungle]

Who animated that and how long did it take. Also why is it good

[white meadow]

guzzlord kinda better tho

[brisk vessel]

Its funny how shiny pheromosa just has pants

[honest tartan]

guzzlord cannot do the gangnam style.

[sturdy jungle]

TRUE

[hollow quest]

guzzlord is better if you want an HP beast or just want something that always fuckin screams

[sturdy jungle]

Xurkitree, Pheramosa, and Blacepholon are all Glass Cannons

[white meadow]

i'd say something to that, but it may possibly be a rule 2 violation, so just look at guzzlord's moon pokedex entry

the stuff's never been found

[honest tartan]

it turns into guzzlords so nobody realizes they find it.

[hollow quest]

xurkitree isn't that glass honestly

[sturdy jungle]

Its shit has never been found. That’s funny.

[hollow quest]

pheromosa is pure glass though

[white meadow]

book title: everybody goes number 2, except guzzlord

[sturdy jungle]

In Pokemon Go at least it is, that thing can’t take a hit for the life of it in Go

[hollow quest]

thank god it can learn u-turn

[white meadow]

imagine the fusion possibilities if the tapu's get in

[hollow quest]

idk, i don't feel the tapus are great fusion material even though i love them

[white meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/tapu-koko-pokémon-tapu-koko-z-moves-guardian-of-alola-gif-25737064

[sturdy jungle]

I wish it was each of the Tapus as their own, then I could vote for all of them except for Talu Bulu

[white meadow]

fuse that thing with regigias

[hollow quest]

i like buzzwole is the most reasonable candidate for leech life

[sturdy jungle]

TRUE

[white meadow]

what about necrozma, that's gonna have some good fusions

considering the concept that it has when it fuses with solgaleo and lunala, just apply that to any other pokemon

[bitter comet]

I have to admit, it would look good with houndoom

[white meadow]

Anyway, I’m still hoping for pachirisu. It’ll only take up one slot.

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pachirisu-dance-dancing-happy-gif-4996678

[honest tartan]

I'd prefer dedenne

https://tenor.com/view/dedenne-gif-27663062

takes up one slot + fairy and electric + way cuter + awesomer

[white meadow]

idk, it just seems off

[frozen finch]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-prowler-goku-goku-mad-goku-dbs-dbs-gif-11120329515669448575

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/dedenne-sad-pokemon-cry-gif-23335716

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-ash-xy-ash-kalos-ash-gif-19349512

[frozen finch]

https://tenor.com/view/black-dragonball-z-goku-black-fiery-gif-16493438

[white meadow]

Yeah, I think it’s the big ears and the things hanging off the cheeks. I’m sorry.

[finite thistle]

Dedenne also gives us plus fusions that aren't weak to ground plus Cheek Pouches

Mind you, I think I might prefer Diggersby for Cheek Pouch, but it is a nice package

[flat herald]

Y E S

GIMME THE BUFF BUGG

[white meadow]

gimme the giant AHHHHH of the ultra beasts

[honest tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-pokemon-ash-ketchum-hoopa-pokemon-hoopa-gif-10026183060904303848

[finite thistle]

Wow, without the TM or Buzzwhole the next highest attack Leech LIfe is Parasect

[compact orbit]

This is literally a reply chain of images 5 replies long. and I just broke it haha

[honest tartan]

3 pokemon ever learns twinneedle

not 3 lines, 3 pokemon

[compact orbit]

Beedrill, and idk who else

Weedle and Kakuna?

[honest tartan]

nope

[finite thistle]

Beedrill and Escavalier by normal level up. Cloyster from Lets Go/Breeding

[honest tartan]

lets go doesnt cound

[flat herald]

I had a feeling Escavalier was in that list, and yes it does wym?-

[finite thistle]

Togedemaru and Venipede get it via breeding as well

[honest tartan]

oh wait i meant by lvl up

jolteon also gets it for some reason
jolteon gets twinneedle

[flat herald]

oh yeh that’s surprisingly since gen 1

[finite thistle]

Pin Missile

[compact orbit]

Oh yeah, it’s even on it’s Pokémon V card in Evolving Skies

Or is that Pin Missile?

[high haven]

Off topic, I've been wanting to draw this fusion forever and finally got around to doing it and just look at it!

I love them!

[compact orbit]

Corsola and… Goodra?

[high haven]

Seviper

[finite thistle]

Oh, the tail point

[compact orbit]

Oh cool!

[finite thistle]

Corsola is really cool. Girl took out Claire's Kingdra for me when I was a kid

[toxic dock]

the waiting is intense.

[finite thistle]

I'm still hoping for Gogoat

I'm glad Aurorus got in though

[high haven]

I really want to see Seviper in the game not just because it's my favorite but also because I've made so much art for fusion ideas and I extremely want to see them in the game and not go to waste

[finite thistle]

Man has invested so much time into these designs. Would be a shame if they just sat there

[high haven]

It really would be

[stone cliff]

Hehe coral snake

[sharp sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/yveltal-legendary-pokemon-pokemon-diancie-and-the-cocoon-of-destruction-pokemon-movie-pokemon-gif-16665363462890750948

[marsh rivet]

Gen 5 is such a tragedy for me because its such a good gen but it got destroyed in sales compared to lesser pokemon games

Probably because it lacked most pokemon before it

Which made it the standard to have gen 1 mon everytime and have this huge roster

[flat herald]

Rip Gen 5. It was a banger

[marsh rivet]

It also technically didnt because you could get past mon post game i believe

[brisk vessel]

Did you guys know that Haxorus was the first pokemon ever designed for Gen 5

And that Haxorus was created during the production of Pokemon Platinum

[frank oxide]

i need this and slrupuff to be happy

[cinder oasis]

Yeah it was really good but 100% it was because you could basically only use gen 5 pokemon on a playthrough and gen 5 has good pokemon but people would much rather prefer using pokemon like Breloom, Ludicolo and lucario

[marsh rivet]

I get wanting to play favorites

[errant epoch]

i shall have my revenge for diance not being chosen

[brisk vessel]

I only have one wish

[marsh rivet]

But this stigma really hurt the franchise in that future games were required to have either gen 1 or a ton of older pokemon on the roster for the sake of having them

Instead of you know, focusing on the newer ones

[cinder oasis]

Now with dexit it's basically like that but worse

[errant epoch]

but its also letting people have their favorites, and use their favorite, even if its the next gen

couldnt do that in gen 5

[marsh rivet]

Or maybe they could give a chance to the newer ones and find new favorites??

Instead of crying for charizard or pikachu

[cinder oasis]

Nobody wants charizard or Pikachu tbh

[marsh rivet]

Tons of people do, its the reason why pikachu is the big pokemon representant now

[errant epoch]

thats true, and they do to an extent, but some people want to use their favorite new pokemon with their favorite old pokemon, and its also adding variety

imagine if we only had gen 9 pokemon, there is like 1 good ground type

[marsh rivet]

I mean theres already variety in the roster, older pokemon is just extra

[cinder oasis]

I need my boy Norbert in sc/vi

[marsh rivet]

That seems to be the problem with gen 9 then, not really a problem of not having past mons

[errant epoch]

and more will get added in the dlc, the same way more became accesible in the post game of older games, but the focus is still on the newer mons

[marsh rivet]

Also older pokemon added on top makes dexes so big they eventually had to cut down on this and only include specific mon

So it went all the way around again to not having some pokemon but specific ones

Dexit is a big problem of sword and shield

[cinder oasis]

There's literally only like 2 ground types that are usable for most of the game, they're good but only 2 is still wild

[errant epoch]

a lot of people look at dexit, and think its a new thing, but it really isnt. old pokemon werent obtainable except for trading in older games, the only difference is that now you cant trade older mons, but whos gonna use a traded mon for a playthrough anyway

[marsh rivet]

Gen 9 problem, they could have done at least more better ground mons instead of relying on returning ones

[marsh rivet]

Not really, generation 2 had the gen 1 region

Gen 3 had past pokemon, gen 4 also

[hollow quest]

gen 8+ really cut out stuff

[errant epoch]

but why make more and more new ground types, eventually replacing the old ones with more and more power creep, when you could just make one or two, and thats that

[cinder oasis]

Transfer only are usable but it's mostly just for competitive basically

[hollow quest]

way more than past gens

[marsh rivet]

Gen 5 is the only one that fully went only pokemons of its generation

[cinder oasis]

Gen 9 cut out a lot of pokemon, gen 8 had a lot more

[marsh rivet]

And it still worked, really well,

[errant epoch]

that only a couple of old ones though.

[hollow quest]

sword/shield still lost hundreds of mons even with dlc

[marsh rivet]

Its also not like past pokemon werent there, at least not throughout the main game

[errant epoch]

not at launch, there was so much backlash at launch because people couldnt use their favorites alongside new pokemon, they were essentially forced into one specific team comp

[cinder oasis]

At least it was more than scarlet and violet

[sharp sphinx]

I also blame the cruddy anime

[hollow quest]

still not that great

[marsh rivet]

There wouldnt be so much power creep in the first place if they didnt insist on bringing back older mons though???

[sharp sphinx]

woops thougt I turned ping off

[marsh rivet]

Gen 1's original problem in the competitive scene was that stats were distributed badly for future games

[cinder oasis]

Having like 10 galar pokemon in scarlet and violet still shocks me

[hollow quest]

i think the issue was more that gen 1 was just horribly broken/unbalanced

[errant epoch]

there would be, just because only newer mons are here now, what if in the future they make a remake, or have a cross gen game like the gen two ones, everythiong would fall apart

[hollow quest]

not just some stat funny business

[errant epoch]

oh that is so true to be fair, gen one was a piece of sh*t

when it comes to game and type balance that is

[marsh rivet]

Maybe they could commit to showcasing newer generations and not rely on old reliables like pikachu, etc etc gen 1 and maybe gen 2+?

Charizard and pikachu always have a reserved seat for them in almost every pokemon game except gen 5

[cinder oasis]

The main problem is that they're just not buffing older pokemon, 460-490 bst doesn't cut it anymore really unless the pokemon is just perfect with its movepool, typing and stat distribution. (For competitive)

[hollow quest]

no it was just crap in general, easily the worst generation. nostalgia blinds people a lot, but at least the bugs were fun to mess with

[marsh rivet]

I mean yeah gen 1 was bad

[errant epoch]

but they do, so much, think of how hyped people are for new starters, new legends, but game freak accepts that not all of their new pokemon are going to be loved, so they need old ones to fill out the roster, and make the game enjoyable for everyone. nobody is being forced to use a charzard just because it exsists, but its there in case someone doesnt like any of the new fire types

[marsh rivet]

It was really just the start of the franchise, buggy and all

[cinder oasis]

Original gen 1 and 2 arent really playable anymore. Just play the remakes anyways. they're better

[marsh rivet]

Not all new pokemon have to be loved, theres always some liked more and some others not

[errant epoch]

i mean gen two is alright, not good by any means, but still playable

[hollow quest]

yeah but it still was done terribly. i do understand it wasn't entirely their fault, but it doesn't change the product we ended up with

gen 2 fixed a lot of the issues, BUT it had its own issues

[cinder oasis]

I think gen 2 has the worst pokedex ever, I don't know how they came up with that monstrosity

[errant epoch]

yes exaclty, so why should gamefreak force people to use a pokemon they dont like, instead of their favorites from previosu gens

[hollow quest]

level scaling was bad, map layout was dumb, lot of filler pokemon yeah

[marsh rivet]

I doubt anybody hates all fire types or dislikes them except for charizard because there is such a big variety of them even in gen specifics

[errant epoch]

not really? diamond and pearl mean anything to you?

[cinder oasis]

The only type I hate is normal, not the pokemon themselves, just the typing

[hollow quest]

i disliked normal type but there's some gems within the normal moves

[marsh rivet]

Not my point, im saying its fine for some pokemon to be disliked and some new pokemon to be liked more

[cinder oasis]

Hyper voice and Body slam are always amazing

[brisk vessel]

Boomburst

[marsh rivet]

If a game was only specifics of its own generation, then people still arent forced to play the newer pokemon they dislike

[brisk vessel]

Extremespeed

[cinder oasis]

Boomburst is one of the best moves in the game, and Espeed

[brisk vessel]

Protect

[hollow quest]

then there are less used moves like fuckin boomburst, then the exclusive type-changing moves of silvally/arceus

[errant epoch]

but what if all the new fire types game freak makes for this next gen are (in someones opinion) horrible and ugly, game freak adds old ones just for that reason. its not hurting anyone that they are there, but just the option to have some of your old favorites cn be amazing

[marsh rivet]

They could just play the newer pokemon they like, its just like how it was in gen 1 where people didnt just go back to a older one (because there wasnt) but just chose their facorite mon

[hollow quest]

i know the type-changing moves are cheating in this regard, but they are normal by default

[cinder oasis]

Luckily this gen we have good fire types

[cinder bridge]

I honestly like it when they add new Pokémon, i get kinda tired of seeing the same old easily (in my opinion)

[marsh rivet]

Then thats just their opinion?? There will always be people who dislike this and that

[hollow quest]

i like seeing new mons when they actually take their time on things

[errant epoch]

oh yeah, we got three absouluty killer ones, and also a bunch of great returning ones

[marsh rivet]

It should also be a problem of the generation to carry on its own

And not just be "rely on older pokemon"

[cinder oasis]

Armarouge, Ceruledge are amazing and I like skeledirge as well

[marsh rivet]

If all the newer mons are bad, whats the point of a new pokemon game if we're going back to the older pokemon

[cinder oasis]

Adding 151 pokemon per generation gets tricky

[errant epoch]

yes, so game freak is trying to make it enjoyable for EVERYONE, not just some people. there not gonna look at this guy who doesnt like the 3(?) new rock types and just go nah he cant use any rock types, theyre gonna add some old ones to the mix too

[marsh rivet]

Pokemon should shy away from gen 1 or past generation and try to do its thing again without being often carried by returning mons

[cinder bridge]

I’m biased since I love Pokémon too much lol, plus a lot of old Pokémon may not fit the “theme”

[errant epoch]

didnt say all, just all of one type, or even all of one class (eg starters)

[marsh rivet]

They dont even commit to returning mons

[errant epoch]

OMG skeledirge is my BABY. torch song just sweeps everything and shes so bulky

[marsh rivet]

Wheres parasect huh

[errant epoch]

no generation is "carried" by returniong mons, they all have new mons and new mechanics wich make them shine on their own, even without the ol' reliable

[hollow quest]

they're great but my favorite was tinkaton. basic choice but it's such a goofy, fun design

little pink creature with big ass hammer, gotta love it

[errant epoch]

because nobody really likes parasect, and it sucks, so nobody is going to use it over the new grass or bug types

[cinder bridge]

Lara sect is interesting, I like them lol

[rapid topaz]

getting swept by torch song it seems

[marsh rivet]

There are people who like parasect

[errant epoch]

they're not gonna add all of th older gen pokemon, theyt never have, just the ones that were liked

[hollow quest]

also PLA scarred the rep of paras/parasect yet again

[cinder bridge]

Parasect**

[marsh rivet]

Yeah, which is why theyre old reliablea

[errant epoch]

yes, but most wil make do for another grass type too

[leaden bay]

Tsareena rights are Pokemon rights

[marsh rivet]

Why bother with new mon when you have charizard? Like you said, if someone doesnt like the new fire type mon, just have the older pokemon

[hollow quest]

tsareena stepped on so many people in the anime

[leaden bay]

Let her it's her right to do so

[marsh rivet]

There are people who like many pokemon that were cut by dexit in sword and shield and beyond

[flat herald]

Aw hell naw…

[errant epoch]

but people WANT to use some news mons, and if they end up not liking them, charzard is there as a backup. its mere EXSISTENCE isnt hurting anyone

[marsh rivet]

And instead exchanged for pikachu again, or charizard, or whatever

[hollow quest]

hey i'm not wrong

[flat herald]

You’re not which upsets the fuck outta me.

[marsh rivet]

I never said it hurt anyone, i just said they could just not have a backup consisting of older mons

[errant epoch]

there was no "exchanging" those are just the mons that more people liked than others

[hollow quest]

personally of the grass types of that gen, i prefer the fake mantis grass pokemon, lurantis, but tsareena has her own feel

[errant epoch]

how would they do that? they cant mind read people opinions of the new mons

[marsh rivet]

Maybe they could just step up their game with newer mons? Its not like anybody who doesnt like these certain newer mons is gonna like the ones that are returning

[marsh rivet]

Maybe let people dislike newer mons and let them play with newer pokemon that they like???

[leaden bay]

I will rig the vote to have Tsareena win
How? Not sure.

[marsh rivet]

Hear this, a game past gen 5 without charizard, crazy right

[sharp sphinx]

legends arceus

[marsh rivet]

I always thought of that as a spinoff, but fair enough

[errant epoch]

the fuck you mean "step up their game" they cant know whats gonna go down well with everythone. its not a matter of "skill" its just sometimes things flop. not much can be done

gen 9 doesnt have charzard available? (except for trading)

[sharp sphinx]

actually there was an event pretty early on to letcha get it

[cinder oasis]

It does

[cinder bridge]

People are dreading the fact that Incineroar (competitively) is coming back lol

[marsh rivet]

Black crystal tera raid

[hollow quest]

legends arceus is not much of a spinoff to me, it directly deals with topics, history, mechanics and regions from the main games, it's not like PMD or ranger or colosseum

[errant epoch]

types are a big thing, take gen 5, i dont like any mof the viable gen 5 electric mons, thats not game freaks fault, i just dont like them, so if there was a manetric available i would be even happier

[errant epoch]

honestly didnt know that, my bad

where do you get charzard?

[marsh rivet]

Yeah, sometimes thing flop, they could learn from the times these mons flop to try and do better than then

[sharp sphinx]

is this really on topic for channel

[cinder bridge]

Honestly nuzlockes helped me be more open to certain Pokémon lol, some Pokémon suck but you gotta make do with what you have

[errant epoch]

ITS NOT ABOUT BETTER, some people just dont like some mons, EVERYTHING is opinion based, what you don't want charzard, but you want every fire starter to be a fire dragon?

[cinder oasis]

Tera raid a while ago. Then of course you could get it from trading. Main thing is that it was available to get without trading

[sharp sphinx]

feels more #other-pokemon-games

[leaden bay]

Let's be real the only memorable part of the gen 9 dex to a large portion of people are Paradoxes

Paradoxes were like lighting caught in a bottle tbh

[errant epoch]

is it in the pokedex? or just a home pokemon like delphox?

[cinder oasis]

ceruledge/armarouge and Annihilape

[hollow quest]

idk, a lot of people liked ceruledge and tinkaton

[cinder bridge]

I love majority of gen 9 tbh, just I hated grinding like I always do in games LMAO (I’m lazy)

[marsh rivet]

If you dont want charizard, but you want a fire dragon, then you can play a older game that has him

[sturdy breach]

Meowscarada, Tinkaton, Cetitan

[leaden bay]

The plot did not revolve around them

[hollow quest]

and yeah meowscarada was popular also

...maybe not for the same reasons but we'll ignore that thought

[cinder oasis]

It's not in the pokedex but you could get in the game without home

[hollow quest]

delphox was in a raid

[leaden bay]

I fucking hate Meowscarada

[sharp sphinx]

I like ceruledge but for the shiny, also skeledirge, unfortunately both are same type combo right after prior games starters did that

[marsh rivet]

But theyre still memorable pokemon for people

[errant epoch]

well no thats what i'm saying, if game freak wants to make an original fire starter every time then eventually one is gonna be shit, sorry i didnt make my sarcasm obvius

[cinder oasis]

Tinkaton is probably the most popular gen 9 pokemon besides the paradoxes ngl

[sharp sphinx]

which has nothign to do with your statement about memorable an dpeople spreference

[errant epoch]

well i mean... not anymore... but anyways

[sharp sphinx]

also again #other-pokemon-games this channels for discussing the additions to this game

[hollow quest]

https://tenor.com/view/get-real-tinkaton-gif-27120983

[sturdy breach]

Tinkaton is #2 (at least in Japan), Clodsire #1, Meowscarada #3 iirc

[marsh rivet]

Isnt that opinion based too?

[leaden bay]

You're right

[marsh rivet]

So far, fire starters have been widely liked across gens

[cinder oasis]

Clodsire fr

[leaden bay]

Tsareena rights are Pokemon rights 💪💪💪💪🍻🍻🍻🍻

[errant epoch]

YES. EVERYTHING IS. NOTHING IS FACT BASED WHEN IT COMES TO " GOOD POKEMON" ITS AN OPINION

[cinder oasis]

I hate the gen 5 starters ngl

[marsh rivet]

Opinion based

[leaden bay]

Yes that opinion is based I think

[errant epoch]

you could hate charzard, someone could love it NOBODY IS WRONG (unless they like miltank"

[marsh rivet]

But they already do a original fire starter everytime

[sturdy breach]

I really like Serperior, Samurott is fine, dislike Pignite 🙂

[cinder oasis]

Hisuian Samurott is the goat

[sturdy breach]

or emboar, sorry

[errant epoch]

YES AND SOME ARE SHIT, i will never use emboar, ever. and there are no other original fire pokemon i like in gen 5 either

[marsh rivet]

I think emboar is really cool

[errant epoch]

opinion based

[sharp sphinx]

gen 4 was worse with no options for fire

[marsh rivet]

Samurott is decent, never thought much of it and serperior is...there

[sharp sphinx]

again #other-pokemon-games though

[errant epoch]

yeah, but at least for me i liked rapidash and infernape

[sturdy breach]

at least the starter was decent

[marsh rivet]

Yes, thats why i said "i think"

[hollow quest]

yeah it was great with hisui, serperior is okay and emboar was mediocre because it was #3 in a line of fire/fighting starters and imo wasn't a particularly appealing design

[sharp sphinx]

disagree

[leaden bay]

My favorite Pokemon is Spamton Neo

[hollow quest]

blaziken was pretty cool, infernape at least felt reasonable for a fire/fighting type

[marsh rivet]

Also my favorite gen 1 starter is charizard but for some reason i just found blastoise's design like more candy to the eye

[errant epoch]

yes, so thats why gamefreak adds older mons to newer games. incase someone "thinks" the new mons are garbage

[leaden bay]

Tbh the only starters I call bad are Cinderace, Inteleon and Meowscarada

[cinder bridge]

I like the pickle

[marsh rivet]

What if they think the older mons they add is garbage

[leaden bay]

The rest ranges from mid to awesome

[marsh rivet]

Game freak cant appeal to everyone

[errant epoch]

the they will use the newer mons

[sturdy breach]

Coincidentally, 2 of those are in the top 5 of my personal starter favourites

[leaden bay]

Good for u, to each their own. I don't like them

[cinder oasis]

I hate cinderace and Inteleon so much bro

[errant epoch]

your right they can't, but its better alternative than only adding new mons

[marsh rivet]

What if they think the newer mons are bad and the specific pokemon they add are bad

[hollow quest]

meanwhile i liked both

[leaden bay]

BASED?! 🍻

[hollow quest]

but i get not liking them

[cinder oasis]

Based 🍻

[sturdy breach]

Then those people are the ones you see crying on twitter

[errant epoch]

then that is unfortunatly just tough luck, stuff happens.

[cinder bridge]

It’s impossible to appeal to everyone, everyone’s gonna hate something and you can’t really do anything about it, but the old mons may not fit the surroundings of the world

[leaden bay]

Like out of all the gen 8 starters Rillaboom is the only good one but it's only by default

[marsh rivet]

The point of adding only newer mons wasnt for appealing to everyone, it was for letting pokemon games do their own thing without older mons

[cinder oasis]

For real bruh

[marsh rivet]

Like wouldnt most newer mons be more memorable if they werent foreshadowed by older ones?

[errant epoch]

but that would massivly decrease the amount of people that actually like, and are willing to play the games

[cinder bridge]

Making and adding Pokémon may be selected because of certain worldbuilding if they even do that lol

[marsh rivet]

I dont see anyone crying out for galarian yamask (or whatever regional version they were)

[hollow quest]

meanwhile i don't especially care for rillaboom, big bulky grass starters have never been my favorite though (chesnaught/torterra/rillaboom)

to clarify this is from a use perspective, not specifically a design perspective

[cinder bridge]

Pokémon makes millions, I don’t think they’d care as much

[leaden bay]

It's the only one that doesn't look like a person in a costume which is what I despise about the other 2 galar starters and Meowscarada

[cinder oasis]

Bro, I love Runerigus so much. It's top 5 pokemon for me no cap

[errant epoch]

no, because they like other ground types. either newer ones, or older ones added

[crude crow]

Altaria is in I win

[marsh rivet]

Then people only play for the older mons

[leaden bay]

But Meowscarada is such a big fuck up I don't feel like talking about it again

[cinder bridge]

I hate infernape with a passion 🙏

[marsh rivet]

I love them too, but i dont see anyone else talking about them

[cinder oasis]

That's crazy but like Empoleon the best anyways

[hollow quest]

personally i don't really care if they look more humanoid but i know others do

[cinder bridge]

I hate empoleon too 😭😭

[crude crow]

i wonder if the gen 5 starters got voted in

[marsh rivet]

The cat is standing

[cinder oasis]

Torterra?

[crude crow]

well i hate YOU

[sturdy breach]

So?

[marsh rivet]

Who hates empoleon

[cinder bridge]

Torterra I like, I never played diamond n Pearl and it was my starter lolll

[errant epoch]

no, they play for the recognition. they will obviosly use, and even come to love new mons, but some people play casually, not everyone is a nerd sitting in a basement like us. but some people look at a new game and go "hey i know that mon, i want to use that on my team alongside the newer mons"

[marsh rivet]

How can you hate cool steel penguin

[errant epoch]

how can you like emboar. its an opinion

[cinder bridge]

I hate penguins 🙏 stupid shits 🙏🙏

[leaden bay]

I only care if they look like devantart furry ocs instead of actual Pokemon

[cinder oasis]

Wow, really? That's crazy

[marsh rivet]

So you admit pokemon is carried by its older mon and will die if it tries to use only its newer mon

[crude crow]

i didnt even bother with the gen 8 starters i switched out my thwackey for a budew lmaoooo

[marsh rivet]

I like buff pig, now answer my question

[crude crow]

it was a fire pig with a fire beard my 2nd grade mind was blown at the time do you realize how badass that is

[cinder oasis]

Emboar is ok, I fucking hate serperior, Samurott the 🐐

[hollow quest]

i do not like buff pig much...bulky starters have never been my favorite, though incineroar is fine

[marsh rivet]

Fire types are usually decent

[sturdy breach]

Actual pokemon? Humanoid looking pokemon has been a thing since gen1.

[cinder bridge]

Honestly I dislike some returning Pokémon, I usually hate Pokémon that don’t fit the theme lol

[crude crow]

why is there so much slander on my faves rn

[marsh rivet]

There are rare cases where my favorite starters is another type

[errant epoch]

not die, die is incorrect, but they will sell less copies to their more casual fans. because yes older pokemon are recognizeable, they arent "carrying" the game, they are like bring more attention to it. its not like everybody only uses the old pokemon, its just they are recognizble to a more casual fan, and will get them to pick up the gamke, even if they never use it

[marsh rivet]

Like sceptile

[crude crow]

the gen 9 starters are bangers im glad they recovered from whatever the hell happened in gen 8

[leaden bay]

That is true but their proportions don't immediately make me go "that's just a person in a costume"

[sturdy breach]

It's not because newer mons aren't good or can't carry a gen. People have favourites already, simple as that.

[marsh rivet]

Bringing more attention to it and selling more copies is essentially keeping it afloat

[cinder oasis]

If they remove Lucario permanently you know who would rage super hard

[cinder bridge]

Honestly the company does NOT care what people think, they barely fixed gen 9 lol

[marsh rivet]

Yeah but if those favorites werent there and they were left with the newer mons

[hollow quest]

i've heard some rumors they're slowin down after the DLCs

[marsh rivet]

Do you think they could carry the gen still

[sturdy breach]

Mr Mime, Jynx, Electabuzz/Magmar to a certain extent, Machamp, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee. They all fit this description

[hollow quest]

could be just a fake rumor though

[cinder bridge]

ESP everyone complaining about the shinies being “harder” to find because there’s no sound effect

[leaden bay]

I hope they do they can't even make their own games correctly

[marsh rivet]

Couldnt you just find shinies by looking at them since overworld wild pokemon are a thing now

[cinder bridge]

Which sucks because I can barely tell between a shiny and normal Pikachu

[hollow quest]

i legtimately believe gen 9 could've been some of the best pokemon games without question if they gave it an extra year of development

[crude crow]

alas muh holiday season

[marsh rivet]

Legends arceus should have been the staple moving on for pokemon, just saying

[errant epoch]

its not really, people would still buy it once they saw say, a video by their favorite youtuber playing it, its just amarketing strategy. nobody says that "oh that coke bottle ad really carried those sales" its just advertising, to make it more recognizable. just like have the pokemballs look the same ever gen. nobody is saying "the pokeball design is keeping this game afloat" its just brand recognition

[sturdy breach]

Which is why we won't see a gen without old mons in it anymore. The last time they did people got angry af, not to mention the whole debacle they had with SwSh

[marsh rivet]

Or at least have more games like legends arceus

[leaden bay]

Mr Mime, Jynx and Machamp are made to look like humans on purpose cause it's their gimmick and Magmar/Electabuzz don't have conventionally human proportions

[cinder oasis]

L:A is easily one of my favorite pokemon games

[errant epoch]

its a spin of, but even then they put a lot feautres from it in gen 9

[hollow quest]

PLA did very well, it's one of the best received games from the modern era, they'll definitely want to do another

[cinder bridge]

I don’t know, but it’s hard to tell when you’re running by n such, especially some Pokémon you can’t tell that’s shiny

[errant epoch]

hey give them some time, its been like less than 2 years

[marsh rivet]

Except the catching and combat

[sturdy breach]

wdym? Electabuzz looks like it skipped leg day too many times and is slightly overweight

[leaden bay]

If a Pokemon's gimmick isn't looking like a human then they've got no business looking like people in furry costumes

[marsh rivet]

Or how they did boss fight, integral parts of legends arceus

[errant epoch]

yeah, because legends areceus is a spinoff. nobody is complaining that they dont put the mechanics from pokemon snap into the new games

[leaden bay]

It has ginormous arms which is what makes it stay away from being a guy in a costume

[cinder bridge]

I haven’t finished Arceus bc I got lazy LOL

[marsh rivet]

Instead they went back to the formula with stuff added on top

[brisk vessel]

Me when I look at zeraora

[cinder oasis]

Zeraora is the 🐐

[hollow quest]

arcanine fight was harder than the ||arceus fight||

[marsh rivet]

Yeah but the difference between snap and legends arceus is that legends arceus is more a game than some mainline games

[leaden bay]

Yes Zeraora is a victim of this but it at least is interesting

[cinder oasis]

Fr bruh

[brisk vessel]

As the owner of a shiny zeraora

Nuh uh

[cinder oasis]

As an owner of a shiny zeraora

Yuh uh

[errant epoch]

legends arceus, is actually just a spin off. a great one dont get me wrong, but its still not actually a true pokemon game, its pokemon reamagined as an action game

[cinder oasis]

It's not a spinoff

[hollow quest]

why do people so easily say it's a spin-off, it's the least spin-off spin-off to me

[errant epoch]

if you hate all pokemon games except for legend arceus, you dont actually like pokemon games

[cinder bridge]

I’m more of a fan of story / lore when it comes to games, but I hate when old Pokémon return and it doesn’t make sense that they came back if that makes sense, but I don’t mind

[leaden bay]

People still think it's a spin-off?

[marsh rivet]

Legends arceus is still a better pokemon game than some and if a true pokemon game is following the same formula for years now then i doubt i like that

[cinder oasis]

True but legends arceus is the goat

[errant epoch]

it is a game set in the same world but with different mechanics. it is the actual definition of a spinoff

[brisk vessel]

Now this is true

[marsh rivet]

I do, i just think legends arceus is the better of some recent ones

[sturdy breach]

And Intelleon has realistic human proportions to you?

[errant epoch]

oh 100% agree, but its just not actually a maninline game

[cinder oasis]

Ngl, pokemon games recently aren't the greatest but the lore behind the designs of the pokemon are goated

[leaden bay]

I liked gen 8 and gen 9 to some extent, LA is the goat and Pokemon Go is also a fun time killer

[sturdy breach]

You could get a suit with bigger arms no problem though

[cinder oasis]

It is a mainline game

[marsh rivet]

I got bored of pokemon go

[leaden bay]

No its design just sucks lol

[cinder bridge]

That’s what I love about the new Pokémon, that’s why seeing some old Pokémon come throws me off sometimes LOL

[hollow quest]

i won't say inteleon or cinderace are great pokemon designs but i still liked them

[marsh rivet]

Its cool but i dont want to spend weeks trying to evolve mons because magikarp needs like 300 things

[cinder oasis]

The lore behind Diglett is truly amazing fr

[leaden bay]

I won't say they're great at all

[marsh rivet]

Toedscool should burn in hell

[hollow quest]

excellent, we'll agree to disagree

[cinder oasis]

They're trash

[cinder bridge]

Toadscool I’d eat it deep fried

[errant epoch]

it doesnt have pokemon mechanics. it is a spinoff. spin off doesnt equal bad. hell some of my faovirte games and tv shows are spin offs. doenst make it a mainline game. think of the mandolorian from star wars. it is a spin off. its excelent, still a spinoff

[leaden bay]

I liked Cinderace at first but I grew to DESPISE it

[marsh rivet]

But it does have pokemon mechanics?

[leaden bay]

YESSSSSS🍻🍻🍻

[brisk vessel]

I like rillaboom

[sturdy breach]

Is it because of S1 SwSh competitive? 😄

[cinder oasis]

It's a mainline game, whether it follows other pokemon games traditions or not

[cinder bridge]

Arceus is literally just showing how people came to be when it came to pokemon

[marsh rivet]

What pokemon mechanic does it not have

[brisk vessel]

The others are very mid

[cinder oasis]

🍻

[marsh rivet]

Aside from trading

[cinder oasis]

It has trading in it

[brisk vessel]

Pvp

[cinder bridge]

But I’m a number 1 Volo hater 🙏🙏🙏

[hollow quest]

then again, the designs quickly became apparent when you realize they're based on stereotypical british likings and hobbies, like football (cinderace) and james bond (inteleon)

they do at least make sense in that regard. could they have been done differently? yeah, but they fit their ideologies well

[brisk vessel]

Also I'm pretty sure PLA doesn't have abilities

[cinder oasis]

Volo is def my favorite villain of pokemon

[marsh rivet]

Uhh, the fights throughout the entire game?

[cinder bridge]

Breeding, but it can be excused since people are now just warming up to Pokémon

[cinder oasis]

Player vs Player you monkey

[brisk vessel]

That's PVE not PVP

[marsh rivet]

Ditto doesnt exist yet

[cinder bridge]

Ditto does exist I’m pretty sure

[errant epoch]

lore wise, and money wise, yes. gameplay wise, it is pokemon reimagined. its a spinoff. think of pokemon ranger. its a pokemon game with unuiqe mechanics. its a spinoff

[cinder oasis]

It's mainline

[marsh rivet]

Doesnt ditto exist from a experiment on mew?

[errant epoch]

lore wise and gameplay wise no

[sturdy breach]

It comes through space time distortions, they are not supposed to be there but they are in PLA

[cinder oasis]

It's a theory but it has proof behind it

[errant epoch]

source: trust me bro

[cinder oasis]

The creator of serebii:

[cinder bridge]

If you look it up it says it’s mainline LOL

[marsh rivet]

Also legends arceus is definitely mainline, its like breath of the wild compared to other zelda games

They have different gameplay and stuff but its still a mainline game

[errant epoch]

evs, ivs, battling ios different, no held items, no abilites, able to dodge pokemon, able to use items in the world

[marsh rivet]

Still a mainline game, it just has different stuff

[hollow quest]

it's like a prequel mainline game and that's cool

[errant epoch]

Lore wise, mainline. gameplay wise. its a spinoff

[sturdy breach]

Which also makes it so weird that Ditto is literally in every region of the pokemon world, depending on how long ago they were made. They also can't breed more of themselves

[errant epoch]

PREQUELS ARE SPINOFFS

[cinder bridge]

Literally many sources say the game is mainline

It’s literally confirmed too

[marsh rivet]

Just because it doesnt have the same gameplay as other mainline games doesnt mean it isnt mainline

[errant epoch]

YES, LORE WISE. gameplay wise, it is the DEFINITON OF A SPIN OFF

[cinder oasis]

Its only in every game for the breeding aspect so you can obtain shiny starters for example without going through hell

[marsh rivet]

Also prequels arent limited to spinoffs, in fact, theyre often considered mainline

[errant epoch]

YES IT DOES. FOR THIS SERIES, YES IT DOES. THAT IS WHAT A SPINOFF IS. POKEMON RANGER IS A SPINOFF IN THE SAME WAY

[marsh rivet]

Yakuza 0 is a mainline game, but its still a prequel

[marsh rivet]

Breath of the wild

[cinder oasis]

It has catching and battling pokemon. Isn't that what pokemon is about?

[errant epoch]

pokemon legends arceus is a different genre. therefore spinoff.

[marsh rivet]

Different gameplay than other zelda games, still mainline

[marsh rivet]

Not how it works?? Mainline games arent limited to one genre

[hollow quest]

it's mainline, the spin-off argument is silly

[cinder oasis]

So gen 9 is a spin off?

[hollow quest]

it's a mainline 3D game with some altered mechanics and new features

[marsh rivet]

Bringing up the yakuza example again, the series goes off into RPGs after a while, and its still considered mainline games

[sturdy breach]

I do get where they are coming from though, since PLA is the first one to deviate it feels like a spinoff to a lot of people while still being mainline

[marsh rivet]

PLA does something new and pokemon fans become delusional

[errant epoch]

-------------------------------------------other zleda games

                                                                             ---botw/totk

they moved the goalpost. the fact that pokemon went bakc to orignals makes it a spinoff

-------------------------------------------------------pokemon
--- legends arceus

[sturdy breach]

are the regions from Pokemon Ranger canon to the mainline timelines?

[marsh rivet]

I love pokemon games having the same formula for decades

[errant epoch]

gen 9 isnt an action game

[cinder bridge]

Anything game freak does with Pokémon people go delusional tbh

[cinder bridge]

I’m saying this in general

[errant epoch]

yes, but also io have said many times, lore wise and gameplay wise have different meanings for spinoff

[errant epoch]

that is what makes them pokemon games

[marsh rivet]

Or maybe it went back to originals because gamefreak couldnt afford to stray far away from the original pokemon formula and had to do it for recognizability sakes?

[marsh rivet]

No, its what makes them repetitive

[cinder oasis]

Wrong

[cinder bridge]

Pokémon gets boring after the same thing in old gens, that’s why I stopped playing them lol

[hollow quest]

if pokemon doesn't try and change things up, it'll end up like mega man did

[marsh rivet]

Nah because pokemon is a widespread culture deal

[sturdy breach]

Doubtful, considering it's the biggest franchise to exist I think

[marsh rivet]

It will live, just not in the shape of non-repetitive games

[hollow quest]

still it's a similar idea

[cinder oasis]

Disney:

[cinder bridge]

I’m just curious what country they’ll do next

[hollow quest]

eventually its popularity will fade

[marsh rivet]

China

And they'll add noclipping to china too, so that players are satisfied

[sturdy breach]

The Pokémon franchise is the highest-grossing media franchise in history 🙂

[marsh rivet]

People in pokemon spain can noclip, so they have to mantain that

[sturdy breach]

It beats out Disney

[marsh rivet]

Disney:

[cinder bridge]

Oooo

[marsh rivet]

I doubt it does, otherwise nintendo would be richer than disney

[cinder bridge]

China would be v interesting bc of the mythology

[cinder oasis]

I know, I just mean that Disney is losing a lot of money from making dumb decisions

[hollow quest]

i don't think you understand just how big nintendo is

[marsh rivet]

And pokemon makes dumb decisions and makes big bucks for it

[sturdy breach]

Most of pokemon's earnings comes from Merch (like 66%)

[marsh rivet]

Anime, cards, etc

[sturdy breach]

trading cards is 11%

[cinder oasis]

Merch is what's most important to them, games come second now

[hollow quest]

it's massive, with multiple unique franchises and stakes/control in numerous outside franchises

[sturdy breach]

the games are 19%

[cinder bridge]

Honestly I just feel bad for the devs being rushed and all that such

[hollow quest]

this is why i hope the slow down rumor is true, where they'd slow down on pokemon production after this cycle

[cinder bridge]

The art / game industry loves overworking people to death 🙏🙏🙏

[cinder oasis]

Industry in general love doing that

[marsh rivet]

Human rights? Whats that

[cinder bridge]

Fair

[hollow quest]

it's just japan's work culture in general, it's extreme

[cinder oasis]

Americuh:

[sturdy breach]

Also Disney isn't a franchise as far as I know, it's a company

[marsh rivet]

Japan's may be more extreme

[cinder bridge]

But what I’m curious is if IF is going to make custom sprites for Gen 9

[hollow quest]

no, nothin past gen 7

[marsh rivet]

I doubt its touching gen 9 anytime soon lol

[cinder bridge]

Ahhh damn

[hollow quest]

ever, as far as we know. this was stated by the creator themselves. there are reference alts for stuff like sneasler though

[cinder bridge]

But at least espurr has a chance 🙏🙏 (I love espurr)

[marsh rivet]

Gen 7 is peak pokemon anyways, at least the better of what this formula brought us

Wheres necrozma when you need them

[sturdy breach]

I think when it comes to pokemon designs Gen7 is the ones with the least misses for me personally

[cinder oasis]

The game is ok but the region and pokemon are 🐐

[cinder bridge]

I just want more lore 😭

[marsh rivet]

Read the manga

[stone cliff]

My boomer ass:

[hollow quest]

i loved gen 7, was easily the best games of the modern era alongside PLA

[stone cliff]

I did not enjoy Gen 7 much at all

[marsh rivet]

Okay grandpa, go back to beating zekrom on gen 5

[stone cliff]

Didn't play a game after platinum till Sun

[cinder bridge]

I’ll prob do so, but god my dumbass sucks at reading

[sturdy breach]

If the games were better optimised on the Switch, both SwSh and SV would be up there tbh

[marsh rivet]

So you played only bad games and then peak?

[cinder oasis]

Omega ruby and Alpha sapphire are goated

[stone cliff]

No, I played the best ones then wallowed in disappointment

[marsh rivet]

Platinum is not good, gen 2 and gen 1 suck ass despite the nostalgia

[sturdy breach]

Gen1 is the worst game wise though 😄

[hollow quest]

x/y cut the good out of that gen, sorry

[stone cliff]

Honestly never played actual Red/Blue

[marsh rivet]

I love the pokemon in gen 2 though

[cinder oasis]

X and Y are idk, never played it

[cinder bridge]

I love pkmn heart gold bc of nostalgia

[cinder oasis]

Heart gold is goated

[cedar fjord]

X/Y are pretty great. probably top 5

[marsh rivet]

Nostalgia blinds you

[stone cliff]

Favorite gen gameplay-wise is 3, favorite gen for design is 2

[marsh rivet]

Its a better game than gen 1 but it has its issues

[hollow quest]

x/y are my least favorite of the modern era, i even liked sword/shield more

[sturdy breach]

No-one would play Red/Blue Gold/Silver nowadays, unless you want to torture yourself

[cinder oasis]

I think gen 2 has some of the worst pokemon

[marsh rivet]

Ehh yeah gen 3 is good, i still think gen 7 is my favorite

[cedar fjord]

SuMo>ScarVio>X/Y>Plat>HGSS are probably my top 5 overall

[marsh rivet]

Gen 7 just radiates with style for me

[hollow quest]

x/y felt lifeless and crude, nothin felt appealing about it to me besides greninja and yveltal

[stone cliff]

I think what we're learning here is that it depends heavily on what you started with

[sturdy breach]

Gen2 mons are weirdly weak in battle overall, designs are nice though

[marsh rivet]

Buff my man heracross

[hollow quest]

i struggled to get through it, i beat the main game and dropped it immediately

[cedar fjord]

X/Y has amazing variety, some of my favorite mons and the second best dex in the series. Its super fun to play through only let down by some bad AI

[sturdy breach]

I started with Blue and Yellow, If I want to play Kanto I play FrLG

[hollow quest]

it's better than gen 1/2 but nothin else

[cinder oasis]

For me it's that theyre weak and some of them are just really weird like Girafig and sneasel just existing by itself

[hollow quest]

i cannot understand x/y fans outside of some nostalgia

[stone cliff]

Agreed. Like I said, never actually played red/blue

[marsh rivet]

Heracross aint done nothin wrong

Let him go up the competitive scene

[cinder oasis]

They're awful anyways, I played Pokemon gold and it was not great

[cedar fjord]

I think my least favorite is probably B/W because of how awful Pokemon distribution iis in it. Locking almost a third of the dex to postgame mons/legendaries was a spectacularly terrible choice

[frank sinew]

Are there any plans to put Tropius into the game? It’s one of my absolute favorite Pokémon and it’s a little sad to see it isn’t there

[stone cliff]

Idk about Gold, I played Crystal

[cedar fjord]

and it has the smallest usable dex in the series so no real replayability. Which sucks because I love a lot of the mons but they're all locked behind like 5 gyms

[stone cliff]

Solid maybe

[hollow quest]

yeah that's all i really need to hear, because outside of those issues, gen 5 had some of the best story and characters

[bold atlas]

Two vote announcements left so there's a chance

[cinder oasis]

Crystal is gen 2

[sturdy breach]

Yeah, having played Silver and Crystal when I was young... I would not go back to that and just pick up HG/SS 😄

[cedar fjord]

SuMo has a significantly better story than Gen 5

[frank sinew]

Honestly I’ll take a maybe

[cinder oasis]

Oh sorry I meant Pokemon Yellow woops

[cedar fjord]

also ScarVio. Gen V is really, really let down by anything and everything to do with N

[marsh rivet]

Pokemon yellow was just early games trying to market the anime

[cinder oasis]

Yellow was not the greatest

[hollow quest]

the only reason to play the first gen nowadays is to mess with the bugs imo

[cedar fjord]

who feels like he's from a completely different universe

[marsh rivet]

Missingno

[sturdy breach]

Which is funny, considering the anime's purpose is/was to promote the games

[hollow quest]

yeah, LGE/LGP were similar because they remade yellow

[marsh rivet]

Also didnt yellow introduce the friendship mechanic too?

[hollow quest]

so we got jessie/james a lot

[marsh rivet]

Stuff that would be used later for like riolu

[sturdy breach]

Yeah, with the Pikachu.

[cedar fjord]

Yellow is a fascinating little historical artifact and its funny how it pioneered a bunch of stuff like Friendship, following Pokemon etc

[marsh rivet]

Jessie and james should return in games

[hollow quest]

yellow introduced some novel concepts but ultimately it was crippled by its design

[marsh rivet]

Have them like random npcs or something

[sturdy breach]

Yellow did 1 thing that I wish more games would do. Make the 3 regular starters available somewhere ingame during your playthrough

[marsh rivet]

Well yeah but yellow in exchange didnt let you pick one of them

[cinder oasis]

Yeah fr

[cedar fjord]

I mean after yellow there have been very, very few anime refs in the games at all. I think we got a few of Ash's Pokemon in intermittant events and of course the weird Ash-Greninja thing but otherwise there's not even nods

[marsh rivet]

And instead forced you to pick a mon who is badly balanced

[cinder oasis]

I hated playing yellow cus using Pikachu sucks so much

[cedar fjord]

you can just... not use Pikachu if you don't want

[marsh rivet]

After that the games only focused on movie pokemon

And very rarely anime mon like ash greninja

[hollow quest]

this issue was sorta fixed in LGP/LGE, it's perfect IVs and learns special, powerful moves to balance it

[cinder oasis]

What else would I use, Butterfree?

[sturdy breach]

Which isn't a huge deal early in the game to begin with until you receive the other 3

[hollow quest]

[cedar fjord]

You can catch Mankey like immediately

[marsh rivet]

Yes

[marsh rivet]

Like hoopa or zygarde

[cinder oasis]

I used like Nidoking, Pikachu and I think one more pokemon till like the 3rd gym, never beat yellow

[cinder oasis]

I think I used beedrill

[cedar fjord]

I wouldn't even say the games focused on them. for most they got half-ass distributions that just dump them in your box with no fanfare

[marsh rivet]

Yeah thats what i meant

[hollow quest]

i beat yellow before with the classic tactic called a gameshark level 100 mewtwo

[cedar fjord]

Zygarde did get the weird cut content from Z that they shoved into Sun and Moon

[cinder oasis]

I wish Z happened

[marsh rivet]

I never played yellow past first gym because i just saw it as a novelty

[hollow quest]

Z might've been able to improve that gen

[marsh rivet]

Which it is

[cedar fjord]

maybe then Az could be anything but an inexplicable 10 foot immortal who no one else ever seems to be able to see

especially considering he ambushes your Champion victory parade and like no one stops him?

[marsh rivet]

Remember the random girl in sun and moon who appears out of nowhere and leaves without saying anything?

[cedar fjord]

That's in X/Y iirc

[cinder oasis]

And the retcon which is Floette Eternal form

[marsh rivet]

I dont remember if it was sun and moon but its creepy

[marsh rivet]

Has there been found context for it yet

[sturdy breach]

Ghost girls have been a thing for a while

[marsh rivet]

Or is it still just a weird mistery

[cedar fjord]

X/Y also needed some uh passes on Sycamore because he's just weirdly into Lysandre even when Lysandre is going into full supervillain mode

like at least let him have an evil reveal or something

[marsh rivet]

Has there?

[cedar fjord]

There's definitely also a ghost girl in Platinum and I think also in Black and White

[cinder oasis]

Actually both AZ and Eternal Floette have just been completely eradicated, for being such important character to pokemon history in general it's weird he's just Vanished.

[hollow quest]

hex maniac has been around since gen 3

[sturdy breach]

I think it started in X/Y though

[marsh rivet]

That was hex maniac?? Why doesnt she say anything

[sturdy breach]

I did mean the actual ghost girls, not the ghost fanatics 😄

[hollow quest]

gen 6 just made her more popular with that design

[marsh rivet]

If i remember well, X/Y had like a random girl waltz into the room, look at you and then walk away

Without saying a word

[cedar fjord]

I think they're talking about the girl who walks through the wall in Lumiose city

[sturdy breach]

Yeah, she said "No, You're not the one..." and then disappears

[marsh rivet]

Oh wait yeah lol

Thats what she says

[sturdy breach]

In SwSh you have a sidequest given to you by a girl who is a ghost. When you get back you find the reaper cloth there

[marsh rivet]

Why are there random ghost girls

[hollow quest]

wonder if one day, she'll actually call you the right one

good creepypasta material

[marsh rivet]

Is it just devs fucking with people

[cinder oasis]

Theres also cara liss in the middle of a desert making creatures like Dracozolt

[marsh rivet]

Like how early dexes can be unadvertedly weird

[sturdy breach]

She's a reference to careless (hence the name) brittish archaeologists

[cinder oasis]

With what looks to be a vacuum cleaner

[marsh rivet]

Like hypno kidnapping a child

[cedar fjord]

i mean have you read some of the Gen 9 dex entries.

[marsh rivet]

Havent read newer ones

[cedar fjord]

they never really got less bizarre. We still have a lot of child kidnapping and murder

[cinder oasis]

I know the lore behind Norbert and the other 3

[bitter comet]

That would be a really interesting pokepasta might give it a read if it was a thing

[marsh rivet]

Random ghost girl jumps out of the screen and says youre the one and kills you

[sturdy breach]

And then we have Tinkaton who has so much 1sided beef with Corviknight that they have to use frickin parrots for the taxi service

[brisk vessel]

I saw a "comic" with this premise

[bitter comet]

I would give it more build up than that…

[marsh rivet]

What kind of "comic", because i might have an idea

[brisk vessel]

I don't wanna get muted again so I'm not gonna elaborate

[cedar fjord]

Like there's an entire Legendary foursome in Gen 9 that's all people who were tortured to death for defying an ancient king

[marsh rivet]

Lmaoooo

[cinder oasis]

Theres that one iconic pokemon horror game where you fight this monster in the lavender town tower and you lose and die in the end

[sturdy breach]

Aren't they the objects that got cursed because of the mistreated people?

[marsh rivet]

Yeah i know that one, isnt it the corpse that uses its hands like pokemon???

[sturdy breach]

Not the actual people themselves

[cedar fjord]

They're described as their grudge or spirit so its not clear if its supposed to be their souls animating them or just cursed objects

[cinder oasis]

Think so

[cedar fjord]

or my favorite with Pallosand "From the hollows in its arms, it fires the bones of its victims, which are all dried up after being drained of their vitality."

[hollow quest]

also froslass

[sturdy breach]

"The hatred of those who perished by the sword long ago has clad itself in snow and become a Pokémon." for Chien Pao. It's the sword itself that bears the grudges

[cinder oasis]

Pokedexes are just brain-dead tbh, they're just the devs being goofy and coming up with random bullshit

[hollow quest]

yeah but they're canon info because of it

[cedar fjord]

They're fun because they can generate some great little two sentence horror stories

or show how much writers don't understand math or physics. Like at all

[cinder oasis]

I still think it's dumb because if they actually used pokedex info in the game the world would end

[cedar fjord]

Like how Lanturn generates enough energy that it would cause a second Big Bang when its underwater

because no one understands how the hell light works

[hollow quest]

you say that from the series that has some magical animals fighting each other. physics and math probably weren't the main focus lol

[cedar fjord]

or the hilarious number of Pokemon that are way lighter/heavier than they should be

like Wailord being less dense than air and in danger of constantly floating away

[sturdy breach]

Also the one who wrote the mega evo dex entries in sun/moon apparently hated mega evolution, which is why it mentions constant pain etc? (or is this something that floated around unconfirmed?)

[cinder oasis]

And Electivire being able to create Lightning powerful as 2 million volts

[cedar fjord]

I mean the entries are all weird and brutal for no reason but I don't think we have any confirmation on a writers intent

[hollow quest]

couldn't pikachu muster 18 mil

[sturdy breach]

And Magcargo being so hot it would probably burn up like... everything

[cinder oasis]

It would probably cause a nuclear explosion every time you let it out from your pokeball

[sturdy breach]

Also rip Slugma for having an amazing shiny being ruined by it's evolution

[cinder oasis]

Theres also Wobbufet which can just do a Uno reverse card and reflect literally anything

[cedar fjord]

But yeah it is an inference you could make because like why the heck would this be a thing you let kids do
Mega Gengar
Sun: Gengar's relationships are warped. It has no interest in opponents unless it perceives them as prey.
Moon: The energy of Mega Evolution awakened it. It sinks into another dimension, where it keeps a patient watch for its chance to attack.
Ultra Sun: It tries to take the lives of anyone and everyone. It will even try to curse the Trainer who is its master!
Ultra Moon: Mega Evolution has made it possible for Gengar to access other dimensions. Its entire body is brimming with strange power.

[bitter comet]

I love ghost type Pokémon and I’m probably going to make a full team of them after I beat the nuzlocke I’m on I’m probably going to do it

[hollow quest]

mega gengar is just alt guzzlord

[cinder oasis]

X and Y is all happy and sunshine and gen 7 is just extreme Violence

[bitter comet]

And don’t forget eldritch portals that lead to giant beasts

[cinder oasis]

Ghost type is my favorite typing cus only dark type resisting it is really nice

[cedar fjord]

Though honestly the Absol entry is the worst/funniest

Ultra Sun: Normally, it dislikes fighting, so it really hates changing to this form for battles.

[cinder oasis]

Mega absol is goofy

[cinder oasis]

Lol

[cedar fjord]

or Mega Garchomp/Salamence who just freak out because you have disfigured them. I have no idea why they went so hard on these

[cinder bridge]

The breeding of certain Pokémon r wild, like skitty and wailord

[sturdy breach]

Probably the reason why people think the one who wrote them hates mega evolution. Considering the sharp 180 they did on the entries opposed to the previous gen and the anime

It still baffles me that Gardevoir is apparently Amorphous

[cinder oasis]

Ultra Suns dex entry of mega salamence is so violent and Ultra moon just says that it tucks it's legs behind for better flying lol

[cinder bridge]

It’s canonic that Pokémon are in emotional or/and physical pain bc of mega evolution

[cinder oasis]

Not in gen 6, but idk, someone hated megas ig and decided to make them horrific

[sturdy breach]

Not in the original gen nor the mainline anime?

[cedar fjord]

Why? Its only incredibly superficially in a humanoid shape

[cinder bridge]

I don’t know, I remember hearing it but I don’t remember

[cedar fjord]

there are a lot weirder categorizations than that. Especially if you take Ralts and Kirlia's designs into account

like Ralts is just a weird blob with a huge head and tiny arms on essentially a snail-like foot

[sturdy breach]

They do have a clearly defined (humanoid) shape. Unless they were actually liquid all along

[cedar fjord]

They also have a bunch of excess pseudopods/limbs where their 'dress' is

[cinder bridge]

Might be referring to sun and moons treatment of mega evolutions, could be wrong

[cedar fjord]

and it changes pretty significantly from Ralts->Gardevoir/Gallade as they become more defined. Ralts is definitely not very humanoid unless you parse its skin as clothing

[cinder oasis]

I wish they kept megas, megas are definitely the best gimmick in pokemon. I like Terastillizing too but megas are better

[cedar fjord]

Megas did have the drawback of being limited to very few Pokemon and requiring a huge amount of effort to make new ones

[sturdy breach]

Mega's would have been better without pseudo's and legendaries getting megas

[cedar fjord]

I completely understand why they moved away from it though I think Z-Moves and Dynamaxing were both pretty eh in comparison

[cinder oasis]

They didn't add any new ones in gen 7 so I don't know why they didn't keep them

[cinder bridge]

Honestly we are just in the timeline without Megas lol

[cinder oasis]

I hate Dynamax and Z-Crystals are mid

[cedar fjord]

because keeping backwards compatibility especially with stuff like Dynamax or now Tera would be a nightmare

especially since they were also partially a way to reign powercreep back in a bit from Megas

some of which were just obscene

[sturdy breach]

I wouldn't mind sticking with megas for longer instead of the new stuff. But it was very badly executed

[cinder oasis]

They have to create each individual design for the 18 tera types, and then decide where to put the tera crystal for 300+ pokemon. I think megas are easier

[cedar fjord]

I mean they also go against a huge core of the series though, of using whatever Pokemon you personally like

thats why they moved to a more universal system. Because creating Megas for every FE Pokemon would be an insane undertaking

[cinder oasis]

On that note I think Competitive pokemon is just kinda dumb

[cedar fjord]

and would/did prevent new evolutions for old Pokemon. Like its not a conincidence we only started getting new cross-gen evos again after Megas were phased out

[cinder bridge]

I don’t mind comp, I find it interesting, I’m more of a casual player but seeing people use Pokémon a specific way is cool imo

[cedar fjord]

they fill a very similar design space

[sturdy breach]

I think 1v1 comp pokemon is kinda dumb, 2v2 on the other hand 😄

[cinder oasis]

It seems like they want you to see the pokemon you like but that doesn't really work for competitive. They also don't like genned pokemon even though no one wants to spend that much money and time to get real pokemon

[cedar fjord]

2v2 would be more interesting if protect didn't exist imo

[clever atlas]

Yeah no i don't share that opinion

[sturdy breach]

Nah 2v2 is more interesting BECAUSE protect exists.

[cedar fjord]

also if it wasn't like a weird side thing in every game but Colosseum

[cinder oasis]

I hate that doubles is used officially but is literally never used in the games storyline

[clever atlas]

2v2 is too complicated for my widdel bwayn

[cinder bridge]

I love battling on Pokémon showdown bc of the randomized and mono settings lol

[cinder oasis]

I think 2v2s are easier

[sturdy breach]

2v2s also rarely go to timer because stall strats are generally ineffective

[cinder oasis]

2v2s end in like 8 turns typically which I like

[cedar fjord]

I do think 2v2 does overtly incentivize Intimidate and punish physical mons

[clever atlas]

But you have to think about synergies and shit

[sturdy breach]

I'm still hoping for a special intimidate

[cedar fjord]

they should have made a special intimidate like 4 gens ago

[cinder oasis]

Same with singles

[clever atlas]

Not as much tho

[cinder bridge]

Singles is kinda hard to set up on if you’re not that careful imo, just a lot of predicting, etc.

[cinder oasis]

You have to think which pokemon work together, how they cover each other's weaknesses, how to get rid of entry hazards.

[cedar fjord]

eh, generic GoodStuff Pokemon teams don't really do that well anymore. You really do need to focus on some serious synergy because its just completely impossible to prepare for everything your opponent might have anymore

[sturdy breach]

at the start of SwSh I played singles a bit online and found it pretty boring compared to 2v2s

[cinder oasis]

Using armarouge and indeedee in doubles is my bread and butter, it's so diabolically good

[sturdy breach]

2v2 is also more forgiving of off-meta picks in my opinion

[cedar fjord]

well until they let Lando-T back into the pool again

[sturdy breach]

I still remember 1shotting Gmax charizard with Cincinno 🙂

[cinder oasis]

I use a rain team occasionally with Ludicolo and Politoed and its pretty good in doubles, not great though

[cinder oasis]

?

[cedar fjord]

pretty much every time Lando-T has been allowed in VGC its on like 90% of all teams

[cinder bridge]

I also too find it uninteresting, but I don’t mind either, I’m just not that smart haha

[sturdy breach]

For S1 of SV I used Tinkaton as a support with Meowscarada and Goodra as my main 3. Worked pretty well

[cinder bridge]

I typically only play Pokémon showdown for battles with other people

[sturdy breach]

Still not worse than Incineroar haha

[cedar fjord]

That's true but it has been terrorizing me, personally, for two extra gens

[cinder bridge]

Well Litten is back in Gen 9 so 🙏🙏

[cinder oasis]

I hate fighting against the 4 treasure pokemon, Urshifu and paradoxes so much

Chien pao and Flutter mane are so annoying

I despise Zacian as well, I just can't beat it really

[sturdy breach]

at least it's ability got nerfed

[cinder bridge]

I remember there was another Pokémon people hated fighting competitively

[brisk vessel]

Just bring Skeledirge

[sturdy breach]

Sad about the Protean/Libero nerf though

[cinder bridge]

That’s coming back, but I forgot

[cedar fjord]

Protean/Libero needed the nerf

[cinder oasis]

Having the best type combo in the game, an op signature move, amazing ability and amazing stats. The nerf didn't change much tbh

[cedar fjord]

if they were still like exclusive to Kecleon they would be fine but like they really never should have put Protean on anything with actual stats

[sturdy breach]

It made switching out with it more punishing at least

[cinder oasis]

Greninja is reasonable, Cinderace and Meowscarada having protean is weird

[cedar fjord]

its even weirder because Starters basically just get a random ability thrown at them

[cinder oasis]

It's still probably the best pokemon ever created, combat wise

[cedar fjord]

like half of their HAs are actively terrible and then a few are the most broken abilities ever made

[cinder oasis]

Besides mega rayquaza, that thing is a monster

[brisk vessel]

Calyrex Shadow:

[stone cliff]

Jimmy Neutron-ass lookin

[cinder oasis]

Mega ray and Zacian are still better tbh

[brisk vessel]

Caly Shadow is the only mon banned from Ubers in Gen 9

Which also includes Zacian (who isn't banned)

165 SpAtk with 150 speed and Special Moxie is insane

And ofc Astral Barrage being dummy busted

[cinder oasis]

Zacian was in AG, it was nerfed though so now it's worse than before, worse than Calyrex-C too

[cinder bridge]

I usually just do para flinch with my luxray on pkmn showdown bc it’s kinda funny 🙏

[brisk vessel]

That's what I mean

Caly Shadow is also in AG

[cinder oasis]

Mega Rayquaza is still N.1 but it doesn't exist anymore

[brisk vessel]

Also in Natdex

Miraidon is in AG

[alpine rune]

shedinja is ag :)

Does that mean its good?

[brisk vessel]

Shedinja is only there cuz if you have nothing for it you basically instantly lose

Especially if the Shedinja is Tera Electric with Air Balloon

[cinder oasis]

Air balloon Electric tera is impossible basically

[brisk vessel]

So you just combine it with like Shed Tail Cyclizar and it's literally unkillable

[cedar fjord]

Yeah if you don't have will-o-wisp or a few other outs you just lose

[cinder oasis]

If G-Darm comes back I can't imagine what kind of monster it'll be with Bax and A-Ninetales

[cedar fjord]

isn't Shed Tail Cyclizar not even really a thing in Ubers/AG because 119 base speed is too slow now