pif-hoenn-discussion

[lethal roost]

three... headed...?

[silent acorn]

One two three mouths that's enough to make heads

[lethal roost]

those are pinchers. he's a crab

[hearty dagger]

what's a good starter to pick

[brisk vessel]

I could totally make an Apocalypse Bird with that though

[grave jolt]

the only UB I like is Necrozma, and only because of the Black Armor

[quasi citrus]

2 tongues

[hearty dagger]

as a good gardivor fusion?

[quasi citrus]

I like Kartana

[lethal roost]

#playthrough-talk

[silent acorn]

You wanna believe that when they are inside the main mouth alien style?

[rugged wedge]

kartana never really had any appeal to me

[lethal roost]

like id describe them as tubes ig but not whole mouths

[quasi citrus]

i just how you can find way to make the little guy give crazy paper cuts

[grave jolt]

#gameplay-help or #playthrough-talk

[lethal roost]

Bulbapedia describes them as tongues?

[silent acorn]

There is little holes where it drags down stuff, that's enough to count as a mouth

[quasi citrus]

srly?

[silent acorn]

Then technically they are mouths in a way

[quasi citrus]

true…

[marsh folio]

I knew Goodra would get in

Should be excellent

[lethal roost]

Additional tongues resembling long arms with pincers protrude from its lower jaw even when its mouth is closed.
idfk man its like Hydreigon except this time im actually not sure

[silent acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/alien-attack-prey-scared-nightmare-gif-4436468

[lethal roost]

hi im eating right now can you dont

[silent acorn]

Says "resembling long arms with pincers" but they are actually tongues like an alien tongue

[marsh folio]

How many slots are left

[silent acorn]

7 don't ask for the mess of info we have here

[grave jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/pachirisu-cute-shiny-pokemon-squirrel-gif-26992650

[lethal roost]

yes its definitely 7 and not 4 we promise

[alpine rune]

Yea 7, can confirm. Dont know where they got 4 from

[silent acorn]

Leaks

[marsh folio]

What's been leaked

[outer matrix]

probably from counting the leaked pokemon as taking some slots

[silent acorn]

Not confirmed but supposedly pallosand and necrozma made it in

[rugged wedge]

thought some staff picks didnt count

[lethal roost]

true, we don't know that they take slots. but i cant think of what else would be a staff pick

[grave jolt]

Mods say "please don't talk about leaks"

[alpine rune]

I suppose you dont like trolling people

[silent acorn]

They don't.

[marsh folio]

Both are quite good picks

[silent acorn]

I mean he is asking he can just like search comments or the pins

[silent acorn]

We can agree on that yeah

[alpine rune]

exactly, whats wrong with a little misinformation

[silent acorn]

Ok fine I didnt know we had friendly fire enabled

[lethal roost]

yeah the picks are actually gogoat and minior and im definitely not coping

[hushed mantle]

I thought frogman doesn’t care

[dusty arrow]

gogoat is cool, i can see a lot of undertale refs from it

[silent acorn]

Actually mods came in here to just joke about the leaks themselves

[lethal roost]

i would never cope

[lethal roost]

CRYOGONAL AND CLAYDOL ‼️

[hushed mantle]

Remove hoopa from there NOW

[dusty arrow]

add more ghosts it would be cool

[lethal roost]

MINIOR ‼️ ‼️

[silent acorn]

You say sadly and now we have sableye, froslass, trevenant and possibly pallosand you predict it in a way please be wrong about marshadow

[dusty arrow]

why possibly?

[lethal roost]

clearly you've never seen how im always right

[silent acorn]

I DO NOT NEED THE CHIBI SHADE

[dusty arrow]

you are wrong because diggersby

[alpine rune]

Safest bet currently is that there's only 4 slots left + 1 bonus mon

[silent acorn]

I think it's fair to say golisopod transcends gens is just such an awesome mon from Gen 6 and it's a bug type

[marsh folio]

Is it a bonus Mon and not line?

[hushed mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/iron-man-sped-up-jarvis-gif-19148596 jarvis search hoopa on this list

[lethal roost]

trevenant raffle is a bonus mon that could be a line ig

[dusty arrow]

..its gen 7

[alpine rune]

And at the best case scenario where pallosand and necrozma are bonuses, we have 7 slots + 1 bonus

[silent acorn]

What's wrong with some dumb misinformation

[lethal roost]

im not seeing anything that suggests they're bonus though

we got frogman's pick, kiwi's pick, the staff's general pick

[alpine rune]

exactly

[marsh folio]

My pick for the trevenant raffle is definitely Minior just because of the sheer fusion potential

[silent acorn]

We should get the poll maker pick lol

[alpine rune]

and frogman did say there's no more staff picks

[lethal roost]

...? who else would be picking??????

[dusty arrow]

i used to think jirachi was gen 4 for some god foresaken reason

[silent acorn]

The rarely seen in its Gen effect

[lethal roost]

but how would Necrozma and Palossand be bonuses then???? 🤨

[alpine rune]

thats the best case scenario

[marsh folio]

I still don't know what gen chimecho is from

[lethal roost]

because we were Big Brained and found them before they were supposed to be revealed ig

[rugged wedge]

maybe one of them?

[silent acorn]

"Sorry guys we messed up have these two for free, preasu undestando"

[alpine rune]

the safest bet is that they arent and we only get 4 slots left + 1 bonus from the contest winners

[lethal roost]

oh actually the last three mons are clamperls line btw

[silent acorn]

Its Gen 4

[lethal roost]

oh 4 slots? clamperl's line and comfey. trust me

[alpine rune]

shell bikini

[marsh folio]

Forces of nature 😉

[drowsy elm]

The regi's

[hushed mantle]

The other 4 slots is the cosmog line

[alpine rune]

its the Tapus guys

[silent acorn]

To be honest I am a gen 5 nut, but like even claiming keldeo is preposterous

[dusty arrow]

clamperl with deep sea tooth + shell smash has more special attack than ,ega blastoise + shell smash
and tha with clamperl having timid, not modest

[outer matrix]

cosmog only knowing splash

[drowsy elm]

Thats why its keldeo AND the swords of justice

[dusty arrow]

clamperl ez sweep

[silent acorn]

A yes poor cosmog got so messed up

[silent acorn]

Atleast the evo gets like cosmic power

[dusty arrow]

hey at least cosmoem gets eviolite + cosmic power

[marsh folio]

I want Ogerpon in IF

[lethal roost]

hmm.

[silent acorn]

No gen 8 or 9 my friend

[marsh folio]

I know

But I'm obsessed with Ogerpon rn

[silent acorn]

Purugly is a girl though

[lethal roost]

anyway yeah i think the other non-legend is either Golisopod or Lycanroc
the problem is Lycanroc would take several dex numbers since it's another form mon

[silent acorn]

Not... Really? Like we were sold on it being two slots

[dusty arrow]

the list sucks, crawdaunt too low, escavalier too low, shiftry too low, staraptor too low

[lethal roost]

i don't mean slots i mean dex numbers. like oricorio

[silent acorn]

People seriously gonna grind for male glammeow

[silent acorn]

Yeah but in the votes oricorio also had the 4 forms on the choice

[rugged wedge]

its only a 25% ratio

[outer matrix]

purugly is ugly ~~ ~~

[dusty arrow]

oh really? who wouldve guessed that

[silent acorn]

Purugly was once glamorous? Preposterous!

[lethal roost]

i believe we had the Spat ™️ over this long before Oricorio got revealed and it was one slot

[rugged wedge]

not me thats for sure

[marsh folio]

Minior being so many tiers below the most forgettable fossil is a crime

[silent acorn]

The hell is that spat?

[lethal roost]

of course, with oricorio's reveal that changes a few things. like lycanroc taking more dex numbers

[hushed mantle]

Ok but hear me out why i think cosmog is gonna get in

• 4 slots left
• necrozma was leaked so why not
• the 2nd, 3rd and 4th most voted where the starters, but which was the 1st one? Exactly, people love legendaries

[dusty arrow]

gotta love when a fat ass cat is faster than a literal jet legendary

[lethal roost]

genuinely coming to blows over whether or not oricorio was 4 slots

[silent acorn]

I love those legendaries and people suck so.....

[dusty arrow]

FOUR FUCKING SLOTS

[lethal roost]

cosmoem is the problem in that line. i wouldnt care if it was 4 not-wasted slots but holy fuck cosmoem

[rugged wedge]

oh I said I was gonna sleep 30 minutes ago... whoops

[silent acorn]

Well I mean i think the staff were atleast kind enough to let us know which had that thing like Meowstic with both forms

[grave jolt]

point 3 is actually a good one. we're likelyy getting Cosmog :/

[dusty arrow]

at least its better than the shitty monkeys (minus pan/simisage)

[outer agate]

Oricorio was not worth 4 slots

[silent acorn]

Cosmog sucks more to be honest

[rugged wedge]

its 1 slot no?

[dusty arrow]

staff pick

[outer matrix]

both cosmog and cosmoem suck due to movepools

[outer agate]

hope so

[lethal roost]

nah cosmog has a shape to it that you might be able to make a body with
what the fuck is cosmoem's body? a football

[hushed mantle]

Cosmog can make cool fusions tho

[dusty arrow]

and we already have palkia and jirachi for space fusions

[silent acorn]

Cosmoem gets you cosmic power so.... Consolation prize

[queen falcon]

Cosmos has so much great fusion potential though. Imagine a Rapidash with galactic smoke for a mane.

[lethal roost]

it was a free pick.

[marsh folio]

The 1st pick is probably something silly like spheal.

Ugh.

[silent acorn]

Trust me I love the astral power of those mons

[outer agate]

no disrespect to spheal

[queen falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-legends-arceus-legends-arceus-pokemon-spheal-they-see-me-rollin-gif-24795367

[dusty arrow]

palkia and jirachi exist

[grave jolt]

GOD PLEASE LET THAT HAPPEN 🙏

[lethal roost]

hey what did people vote for this just curious

[marsh folio]

You all are proving my point

[hushed mantle]

LETS FUCKING GOOOOO

[silent acorn]

Solar lion and lunar bat can't top that

[dusty arrow]

i cant remember but triage would be pretty cool

[queen falcon]

I just want Gogoat personally

[outer agate]

Okay but the Spheal line is cool

[rugged wedge]

I would rather have XY

[silent acorn]

It is cool.

[lethal roost]

(the joke is that you wouldnt remember because it wasnt in the poll because kiwi forgot)

[grave jolt]

SPHEAL GANG SPHEAL GANG SPHEAL GANG

[marsh folio]

Spheal and Gogoat are such lame picks

Sadge

[outer matrix]

spheal-line and a single stage pokemon could be in between trevanent and goomy

[dusty arrow]

as much as i love the spheal line, we already have a water/ice seal (seel) and a populwr water/ice type (lapras), so it would be really wasted homestly

[lethal roost]

if more slots ever open up, i'd want spheal. but there are so many things I'd want before it

[silent acorn]

Oricorio not bad we gotten good chunk of designs

[outer agate]

I want Xurkitree
All I'm asking for

[dusty arrow]

the only way i would want spheal to get in is through a staff pick, because we already have seel/dewgong and lapras

[silent acorn]

I am asking for a Guzzlord but considering everyone automatically goes "sound bat cool" not happening

[grave jolt]

I don't like seel 😦

[outer matrix]

rotom/xurkitree would be awesome because it could look like a multitude of wires connected to one large device

[queen falcon]

Seel or spheal? Because seel is already in the game.

[lethal roost]

the good news is nothing that's in my "id only want this if there were more slots" tier got in 🥳

[outer agate]

Its either like Noivern or Golisopod

[lethal roost]

everything that's gotten in is something i at least mildly wanted

[dusty arrow]

crawdaunt and ribombee respect

[lethal roost]

if we had 40 slots I'd be stanning Crawdaunt every day

[silent acorn]

Goodra is about the only thing I didn't want, but I don't hate

[dusty arrow]

crawdaunt is underrated

[outer agate]

ngl I hate Goodra

[silent acorn]

Corphish corphish

[meager python]

I am a firm believer poochyena doesnt add any new interesting fusions

[dusty arrow]

and corphish is head empty and precious

[marsh folio]

Spheal literally does nothing interesting for fusions

A seal? We got that. A ball? We got those. A fren? Wooper and quagsire are right there. Moustaches? Probopass is in the game

[lethal roost]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dusty arrow]

poochyena and mightyena are basic ass dogs (they dont look like hyenas)

[hushed mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-legends-arceus-legends-arceus-pokemon-spheal-they-see-me-rollin-gif-24795367

[outer agate]

Walrein's stache is cooler

[silent acorn]

To be honest stoutlant got robbed by probopass for mustaches

[grave jolt]

Spheal is a better seal then Seel.

[dusty arrow]

ok but lapras still exists as a water/ice type. and dewgong

[meager python]

Thats what im saying. Even if they were more hyena they are still basic 4 legged animals

[lethal roost]

there's a reason it's not higher (and its name is lycanroc)

[silent acorn]

I am willing to put my bets on golisopod or sun and moon legends

[outer agate]

ok but Walrein is better

[dusty arrow]

(real!!)

[lethal roost]

also furfrou

[outer matrix]

~~pachirisu is a regular squirrel, but electric ~~

[marsh folio]

Gogoat^

[dusty arrow]

i like walrein, but we dont need more water/ice types

[meager python]

But gogoat atleast has a gimmick going for it

[lethal roost]

*sigh* time to put out the goat propaganda again.

[silent acorn]

To be honest so you could get walrein everyone would have had to been to use it

[dusty arrow]

mimikyu and pawmot are the only good pika-fakes

[marsh folio]

I've seen the Gogoat propaganda

We don't need goats

[lethal roost]

i just want the goat demon thing.

[dusty arrow]

asgore fusions!!!

[lethal roost]

all i want in life is just some satyrs and chimeras and goat demons and shit

[meager python]

Its not propaganda if its true

[silent acorn]

You would have to reunite absolutely all players to give it a shot

[dusty arrow]

also that skiddo/sandshrew is precious

[lethal roost]

capricorn! literally the 🐐 for more goat mythology fusions

[outer matrix]

then that would be either giratina or houndoom as the head fusions for gogoat

[dusty arrow]

duskull/gogoat = ghost rider

[lethal roost]

thats just the goat demons. thats before you ever get to like

[queen falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/skiddo-shiny-skiddo-gif-1858280009441702535 plus look at this cute guy

[marsh folio]

But yeah whether I like it or not Spheal is getting in

It's quite sad

[lethal roost]

nah. if the dex number thing is accurate theres no room

[dusty arrow]

damn it

[grave jolt]

Aries too!

[silent acorn]

Now you are doing my sound bat strat

[meager python]

The onlything I fear about gogoat are the miltank fusions…

[lethal roost]

aries is a ram

[outer agate]

Spheal is not even that popular tbf, I can see Noivern or Golisopod getting in over it

[dusty arrow]

noivern is cool and all but we already have a bat, and several dragon/flyings

[lethal roost]

...you do realize goats produce milk right

[grave jolt]

...which is a type of goat.

[outer matrix]

I pretty sure that we should all fear any milktank fusions

[queen falcon]

The miktank fusions will happen to everything regardless. No stopping them.

[meager python]

You think miltank spriters care about this

[dusty arrow]

more like sheep

[lethal roost]

i mean its also kind of just a ram and not a specific thing like capricorn is theoretically supposed to be

[meager python]

And yes… it is a mammal

[marsh folio]

My friend all of the people who don't see the propaganda are going to put a three just for spheal

[grave jolt]

Sheep are, in fact, a type of goat.

[lethal roost]

Gogoat learns Milk Drink its so joever

[dusty arrow]

any mammal pokemon should learn milk drink though

[meager python]

Who do you guys think is the WORST option (excluding Bruxish)

[marsh folio]

Stop right there please

[lethal roost]

i think milk drink specifically applies to pokemon based on mammals whose milk humans actually consume

[outer agate]

same goes for most of the legends

[dusty arrow]

skuntank

[marsh folio]

Elemental monkeys, duh.

[meager python]

Yes officer this post tight here

[grave jolt]

Any Ultra Beast.

[dusty arrow]

WDYM IM NOT WRONG

[lethal roost]

elemental monkeys or wurmple (sorry wurmple )

[meager python]

Xerkitree exists

[dusty arrow]

L take

[outer agate]

IF discord member posts worst take ever

[meager python]

It takes up so many slots for a mediocre mon

[dusty arrow]

the only good elemental monkey is pansage and simisage

[lethal roost]

asked to leave #pif-hoenn-discussion

[silent acorn]

Are you freaking serious

[marsh folio]

Stop right now please

[meager python]

So 2/3 of the elemental monkeys

[dusty arrow]

no.. 1/3

[meager python]

TECHNICALLY YES

[lethal roost]

problem is the monkeys are not at all separate as bodies

[silent acorn]

Problem is they all have the same body different haircut

[meager python]

Wait im stupid they are the same line

[dusty arrow]

yeah

[outer agate]

Pansage is the only acceptable one

[dusty arrow]

fr, simisage cool

[silent acorn]

Simipour the only usable one

[meager python]

Pansage best elemental monke

[grave jolt]

Yk, the monkies could've used the form change mechanic...

[lethal roost]

like "oh one of them is slightly fatter than the others!!" who's going to notice

[dusty arrow]

and then theres simisear.

[silent acorn]

Oh I used that I hated the experience

[meager python]

Ya know they could have the hear no evil see know evil trope like they are based on

[lethal roost]

like who remembers enough about the monkey to recognize the very slight body differences??? no googling

[outer agate]

genuinely never met someone who liked simisear

[dusty arrow]

thats cool but simisear exists

[silent acorn]

So so pathetically weak, then Reshiram appeared before me and showed me the light

[outer agate]

simipour has a fat behind

[dusty arrow]

the fuck

[lethal roost]

wrong! thats simisear

[meager python]

Yes officer this post too

[marsh folio]

Simisear is chunky

[outer agate]

wrong monkey

[dusty arrow]

guys which is worse
quilladin or pignite

[lethal roost]

but goddamn did they have to do that to him

[marsh folio]

Pignite

[lethal roost]

pignite because i dont like emboar as much as i like chesnaught.

[outer matrix]

all three share the same body shape but

• red has fur shaped like flames
• blue has eyes closed and has front bangs that resemble water
• green looks smug and has a slick bad hairdoo

[meager python]

Bro has the dad bod while looking like hes a 22 yr old college student

[dusty arrow]

emboar is starting to grow on me, but fuck pignite

[silent acorn]

I feel like this perfectly encapsulates what it feels to have a run with Simisear

[meager python]

Is this pignite in the room with us right now?

[lethal roost]

nah the bodies are different too they're just not different enough and you'd basically have to put the exact same design element in every body fusion

like simisear's beer belly, in every simisear body fusion, otherwise it's not recognizable

[dusty arrow]

can we delete pan/simipour and pan/simisear and just keep pan/simisage

[silent acorn]

Why we got different color monkes and not different color primates I will never know

[marsh folio]

Spinda/Simisear fusion when

[grave jolt]

tbh I was a snivy kid growing up, so I've got an instinctual rivalry with anyone who likes the emboar line.

[dusty arrow]

thats craazyy

[silent acorn]

Dont get beef with me I love samurott

[dusty arrow]

(samurott still better)

[lethal roost]

chesnaught would've ridden in on greninja's popularity and i just think thats hilarious

[marsh folio]

I chose tepig because I was a four year old with no pokemon experience and fire go brrrrrrrrrrrn

[hushed mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-pokemon-gif-25646318

[lethal roost]

like there was almost a universe where chesnaught made it into IF

[meager python]

Hot take greninja is the worst kalos* starter

[marsh folio]

...

[dusty arrow]

what is the single worst starter? including the evos so you can say pignite is the worst starter, but emboar and tepig will still be fine

[lethal roost]

if you mean kalos starters then

[hushed mantle]

Ahh yes i remember using greninja in pokemon red (edited )

[meager python]

Corrected myself

[silent acorn]

My boy could run razor shell, Megahorn, aerial ace and sword dance the haters

[dusty arrow]

i only like greninja because silly phrog

[lethal roost]

of any line? grookey i fucking hate grookey i will end grookey

[grave jolt]

Ah, the Kanto starters. Bulbasaur, Froakie, and Charmander.

[meager python]

Politoad :)

[hushed mantle]

Froakie is better than greninja change my mind

[silent acorn]

Honest take Greninja is the most overloved starter ever

[dusty arrow]

i fucking hate the gen 8 starters

[meager python]

HEY I CHANGED IT

[lethal roost]

of any line that could get into this game? probably greninja

[marsh folio]

Is it even a debate

It's grookey

[hushed mantle]

Don’t say that about monke

[lethal roost]

but that's less of an active hate and more "this is just not very interesting to me"

[dusty arrow]

drizzile:

[silent acorn]

Id only be on team greninja so I can get delphox

I dont care about your Naruto sweaty cosplay

[meager python]

Gen 2 starters are very forgettable

[lethal roost]

also shoutout to Skeledirge for just looking... off. i can't articulate what's off about it

[grave jolt]

I hate incineroar why did we have to get him? I wanted litten so fucking bad but incineroar ruined it!

[silent acorn]

Nothing because nothing is off

[meager python]

Whenever there is a debate about starters, gen 2 is NEVER brought up

[lethal roost]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1023521915702354011/1110023963477807224/OWOSvjkj.gif

[silent acorn]

Feraligatr most fierce water starter after nothing else

[lethal roost]

its like a proportion thing i guess?

[meager python]

Sauropod gang

[dusty arrow]

fun fact: greninjas french name is so much cooler

[silent acorn]

Typhlosion most fire starter ever

[raw bison]

Skeledirge is...odd. His design feels a little mixed up, like they tried to make him a funny clown guy and a kickass rockstar at the same time

[marsh folio]

Grookey is the worst of the three base galar starters

Thwackey walked so Monkidori could run

And Rillaboom is a muscular gorilla.... given to a ten year old.

[meager python]

Fr*nch

[lethal roost]

shoutout to Samurott's German name (Admurai) for being absolutely banging

[dusty arrow]

I FUCKING HATE MUNKIDORI
MUNKIDORI CAN DIE IN A DITCH

[rocky cargo]

Grookey was my fam from his generation

[silent acorn]

About to burn some weed

[outer matrix]

I think that it is supposed to be based off of jazz singers

[hushed mantle]

Well did you expect a gorilla to be anorexic or something?

[meager python]

Incinaroar is the worst starter

[silent acorn]

Mmmmmm'kay?

[meager python]

Not litten, litten is fine

[silent acorn]

Nah incineroar is a tier

[lethal roost]

eh i guess i wasnt as disappointed about Incineroar being biped as most people. Meowscarada was worse for me but I got over it

[dusty arrow]

munkidori is an ugly fuck comparable to drizzile, pignite, and quiladin. same with simisear.

[raw bison]

My biggest personal gripe with him is the chunky fire looking like clown hair. The rest of it works, but it doesn't work with the clown aesthetic the chunky fire brings.

[grave jolt]

Incinaroar ruined one of the best pokemon 😠

[meager python]

Im traumatized because of competitive

[hushed mantle]

Hot take but crocalor is cool

[lethal roost]

oh god VGC incineroar. im so sorry for your loss

[marsh folio]

Look at the body shapes

[silent acorn]

Its not worse than what pignite did to tepig

[meager python]

Crocaloar is cool :)

[lethal roost]

also the fuckin color scheme on thwackey 🤮

[dusty arrow]

fun fact: the fastest alolan starter is torracat, with 90 speed

[silent acorn]

Man bun on a gorilla pokemon

[raw bison]

If they'd pulled the fire over his head so he didn't have the bald cap look, or smoothed it out so it didn't look like red curly hair popping out from under that bald cap, or just stuck with the silly guy vibes crocolor and fuecoco had I think he would have worked really well

but they tried doing both and it feels messy

[meager python]

And chespin and quilladin

[dusty arrow]

you are trying to tell me that munkidori isnt an ugly bitch either?

[silent acorn]

Nah those were effed up since they were conceived

[meager python]

Quilladin sucks, chespin and chestnaught are W

[marsh folio]

No I'm saying that Thwackey is just Munkidori as a grass type

Disgusting

[alpine rune]

THIS TBH

[dusty arrow]

hot take: chespin and quilladin have better shinies than chesnaught, even if quilladin is an ugly fuck

[lethal roost]

CHESNAUGHT SWEEP ‼️ ‼️

[silent acorn]

Let me honest... That monkey is like 5 gens steps backwards

[lethal roost]

yeah chesnaught should've kept the red, it's a crime that it didnt

[grave jolt]

I mean, I guess that's a massive fall, but also I was considering buying a switch off the hype for Litten alone before Incinaroar was announced. Now I'd be hesitant to even use litten because of Incinaroar.

[dusty arrow]

munkidori is uglier than simisear

[meager python]

Gen 8 starters kinda really suck

[hushed mantle]

Not monke

[dusty arrow]

YES

[raw bison]

Skeledirge does have design elements that make him look like a saxophone so I'd buy the jazz angle, but the darn chunky fire looking like clown hair under a bald cap takes up way too much thematic real estate, and I don't know if it was intentionally overcrowded or they didn't recognize how conceptually noisy he was in context

[silent acorn]

Not gonna deny that only on the start of Gen 5 could something so hideous be even considered

[dusty arrow]

absolutely

[meager python]

They went from fan favorites (Litten and Rowlet) to some of the most hated starters ever

[grave jolt]

I kinda like the Scorbunny line

[silent acorn]

Its an opera singer, with a birdie mic

[dusty arrow]

wait decidueye is hated? but decidueye cool af

[meager python]

Its the only line where I picked the fire starter first

[marsh folio]

Even hotter take

Raboot is better than the entirety of the Kalos starters

[dusty arrow]

frogadier

[hushed mantle]

It grew on me after using it in my gameplay tbh

[silent acorn]

Ok now that's some nonsense to spout right there
One word, braixen the middle stage with the most potential nerfed by gamefreak increasing ear hair

[dusty arrow]

(i think frogadier is cool)

[meager python]

Misunderstanding, Litten and Rowlet (gen 7) are fan favorites.

While grookey and sobble (gen 8) are hated

[outer matrix]

I think that its because the gen 8 starters were different than what was expected
sobble becomes james bond
scorbunny becomes a soccer player
grookey becomes a drum player that brings an oversized wooden drum set with him

[dusty arrow]

ohh.

[dusty arrow]

james pond*

[silent acorn]

Whiny lizard and bam bam monkey? Yeah makes sense

[restive halo]

So, with the sharkmons and goodra line, do they count towards the 20 slots?

[hushed mantle]

The gen 8 starters are overhated imo (except the water one, fck that one in particular)

[marsh folio]

Frogadier is cool but Raboot is top design

[silent acorn]

Yep

[meager python]

I hate incinaroar specifically because of the trauma it gives me and other competitive players

[dusty arrow]

grovyle superior

[raw bison]

The problem is he's so many things all at once. Clown hair. Saxophone. Jazz Singer. Opera Singer. Skeleton. Crocodile.

I would love a silly singing crocodile. I would love a serious jazz/opera/metal/other genre crocodile, but I just feel like they mixed too many aesthetics in there and didn't blend them all together in a way that worked.

[dusty arrow]

maan wait til you hear about lando t

[marsh folio]

Grovyle is the best mid stage period you can't even compare lol

[silent acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/princess-and-the-alligator-gif-3525908
This doesn't make sense to you? I think it works fine
The fact it sounds like a train is a bit odd though.

[dusty arrow]

bruxish has even more things

[meager python]

I think lando T is getting a big nerf last I heard

[dusty arrow]

yeah fair

[hushed mantle]

One of the reasons i like it, that movie was a banger

[hearty dagger]

what does weedle evoolve to?

[meager python]

Kakuna

[dusty arrow]

kakuna and beedrill

[hushed mantle]

Gliscor

[silent acorn]

That movie is ultra fun

[marsh folio]

The Grookey line is actually nasty

[hearty dagger]

yo i have to catch that too

[grave jolt]

Misunderstanding; Sobble was also decent before its evo line was revealed.

Sobble and Popplio were actually meant to be in each others generations, but they were swapped at the last moment

[meager python]

Actually it evolves into golbat

[hushed mantle]

Only the second stage tbh

[hearty dagger]

is a butterfree gardivor fusion cool?

[silent acorn]

What did you expect it was based on so called British drum music or something neo comtepros whatever the hell

[dusty arrow]

another reason i despise gen 8 starters? no secondary type

[meager python]

Popplio is a fucking massive W.

[silent acorn]

https://discord.com/channels/302153478556352513/412243367439761408
Here to talk about normal game

[hushed mantle]

They can pull it off it pretty well tho (except the water one)

[grave jolt]

Popplio is a mediocre evo line in a game with some of the worst.

[meager python]

Yea this is a place to discuss the new mons being added

[dusty arrow]

eh..

[silent acorn]

It does what It has to with its concept, it's a mermaid diva not much else you could apply it to

[meager python]

Please find a better opinion 🙏

[dusty arrow]

this rose person is full of massively trash takes

[meager python]

I thinks its less diva and more murderous siren

[silent acorn]

What did you expect they main stan for pachirisu

[dusty arrow]

understandable

[silent acorn]

Actually that's an even better take and fused with anything sinister magnificent

[dusty arrow]

LAPRAS/PRIMARINA

[meager python]

EXACTLY

[silent acorn]

The master of all oceans

[lethal roost]

im not a huge fan of primarina if only because i rank the alolan starters pretty low in the grand scheme of starters
but it's ok

[meager python]

[grave jolt]

Fairly sure it's kinda both; Mermaid shows are fairly popular in Hawaii among tourists for some reason.

[raw bison]

I disagree on that - Bruxish has one thing going, and that is that it deals damage to your brain. It takes a lot of design elements, but they all tie into the same central theme of being sensory overload.

I feel like if Skeledirge had leaned a little harder in any direction - either make him sillier or more serious - he'd work better. Because on paper, he's everything I should love - Fire Ghost Singing Crocodile with Skeletal Aesthetic Leaning Into Rebirth and the Birdlikeness of Crocodiles with a Red/White palette with yellow/orange/purple accents? I should have died from euphoria from seeing him. But I just feel like he's not silly enough to work as a silly guy, but his silly elements ruin his ability to be serious, if that makes sense?

[dusty arrow]

bruxish still bad. skeledirge silly

[silent acorn]

I always liked this one

[meager python]

It’s definitely more based on sirens. Thats why its signature move is sound based

[hushed mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokemon-scarlet-and-violet-skeledirge-gif-27429061

[silent acorn]

To be honest primarina has the unique attribute of being the most siren shaped pokemon

[meager python]

Is because sirens lire in sailors with their voice before draining their life from them

[dusty arrow]

primarina and zoroark have similar hair styles, and i think they could make a good fusion

[marsh folio]

Why is it with starters that the middle stage is either the best or worst in the line by a large margin with no in between

[dusty arrow]

spiiinnn

[meager python]

Probably because thats what it is

[silent acorn]

Ackward transition phase

[dusty arrow]

ackward

[meager python]

Hot take, wartortle is better then blastoise

[drowsy drift]

because they design 2 stages of evolution and then run out of steam if the last one they need to make is the middle or final stage

[silent acorn]

As much as I like Samurott I have to admit Serperior has the better body shape

[grave jolt]

Counterpoint: Incinaroar

[dusty arrow]

blastoise shouldve kept the cloud ear and tail things wartortle had

[silent acorn]

To be fair incineroar line takes a humongous jump from tigers to wrestlers somehow

[meager python]

Lots of people hate on him now because of the initial shock of it being bipedal

[raw bison]

...We're gonna have to agree to disagree because I went down this road before and nobody is paying me enough to deep dive and deconstruct how Bruxish is actually really well designed for a sensory overload theme. It's ugly as sin, but it is so in a very deliberate way and it's design perfectly matches its design conceit.

It'd take me hours and digging back out my design textbooks to explain it properly and I'm not interested in charging/collecting tuition for the lesson. Can't give college credits anyway.

[meager python]

They just kept the resentment

[marsh folio]

I've warmed up to incineroar and torracat is a bit... Awkward to look at now

[dusty arrow]

bruxish bad
(i aint reading allat)

[silent acorn]

My man, don't fuss over it. You know changing anyone's mind on bruxsish is like hitting someone with a metal bat

[dusty arrow]

scout tf2

[raw bison]

I know it's just I'm literally a designer, this is my stuff

[meager python]

Bruxish has an ugly color pallet, which is its main downside

[lethal roost]

tbf i did vote Bruxish 1 eventually out of sheer respect for the grind

[raw bison]

bothers me a bit, but I gotta recognize that it's a deep topic and nobody here is interested in sitting through a college lecture on design theory

[dusty arrow]

WHO REPLACED BLASTOISES DESIGN

[silent acorn]

Yeah I get that, Bruxsish main bad aspect it's the body shape itself its rather bland and bad which happens with fish pokemon

[drowsy drift]

blastoise actually had a separate pre-evo

[lethal roost]

i understand its supposed to be ugly my primary issue is the body

[dusty arrow]

WHO LET THEM COOK

[grave jolt]

Gamefreak went "Don't worry guys, this isn't gonna be another bipedal fire/fighting!" then lied about it the entire dev cycle. We only found out on the actual reveal.

[meager python]

I was here for an entire conversation with people swapping its colors and it looked way better with different colors.

[lethal roost]

blastoise is fine. there's nothing wrong with it.

[rain gust]

You right
Now this is why I think lurantis has a good shot at getting picked
Preying mantises are cool AF!!!!!

[silent acorn]

See as I said bruxsish body is the main weakness of its design colors and everything else not so much

[dusty arrow]

wartortle is cooler with the ears and tail

[meager python]

It wasnt a bipedal fire fighting.

It was a bipedal fire dark

[lethal roost]

the thing with Evolved Wartortle, from what I can tell, is that it's the same design just larger

[drowsy drift]

it was only dark because they knew it would look really bad if they made another fire/fighting starter

[silent acorn]

Charmeleon says hi

[lethal roost]

whereas Blastoise takes the line in a direction you didn't expect

[meager python]

Thats what I first thought lol

[drowsy drift]

it had a whole fighting motif and everything

[dusty arrow]

the bulbasaur line, the pidgey line

[silent acorn]

See atleast incenoroar trolls you into thinking it's fire fighting

[lethal roost]

bulbasaur's flower blooms over its evo line. pidgey gains a crown of feathers.

[hushed mantle]

Apparently charizard is red and doesn’t have wings

[silent acorn]

Emboar is ultra unapologetic about the fact

[grave jolt]

I want a quadrepedal alt-sprite if we ever get Incineroar 😔

[dusty arrow]

wow pidgey gets hair thats craaazy

[raw bison]

Fun bit, it's CMY(k) colors, which are very over saturated on screens, and is part of the "psychic damage". It's problem is it's literally designed to make you hate looking at it, and the colors are specifically to hit you with the hard contract of the three subtractive primary colors and make your eyes hurt.

[meager python]

Bulbasaurs line is the best out of every starter prove me wrong

[lethal roost]

it's a significantly different leap from "pidgey literally gets bigger" there's a progression that makes sense

[dusty arrow]

(blastoises cannons are cool but wartortle is cooler)

[hushed mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-pokemon-gif-25646318

[silent acorn]

I can't it's literally different every single stage with the concept of blooming flower

[meager python]

When designed to look ugly, people will hate it because its well… ugly

[silent acorn]

Purugly

[drowsy drift]

modern pokemon fans when they forget gen 1 was the first pokemon game and thus has some of the simplest designs

[silent acorn]

I dont think purugly was ever designed to be loved

[raw bison]

Which is understandable, but...still disappointing. There's more to life than sleek, ubiquitous appeal. Bruxish ain't it for me, but I see and respect what it's doing, is all.

[silent acorn]

Hell even it's attitude isn't loveable

[dusty arrow]

also, bruxish' design aspects would look cooler on separate pokemon instead of it being stuck onto one single pokemon

[lethal roost]

it is the most obvious exemplification of "here's a clear progression of power" any starter has. a lot of them just appear to get oldeR
maybe it has to do with the flower motif

[meager python]

Simplistic designs but lots more options

[grave jolt]

https://tenor.com/view/turtwig-pokemon-gif-6027239

[drowsy drift]

I think for pidgeot line being the first ever beginner route bird, it having a pretty simple design through its evolutions makes sense

[lethal roost]

Oh, Turtwig's line does it too

[silent acorn]

Sometimes simple works the best, you have chimchar line and you know they are all monkeys that do fire monke stuff

[lethal roost]

actually all of the Sinnoh starters do the power progression well save for maybe Monferno

[meager python]

Hmm thats a compelling argument…
Grottle is above average in terms of middle stage evos…

[raw bison]

No but that's literally the point of it, is that it's too much going on, like dazzle camoflauge! And then when your eyeballs are wigging out it comes in and bites you with the Psychic Fangs move it came with.

[dusty arrow]

i find it funny how snivy kinda de-evolves when turning into serperior

[drowsy drift]

chimchar line references how sun wukong started as a monkey before ascending to godhood

[raw bison]

It's deliberate, campy, oversaturation, and while it's not my thing I have to look at it and respect that it's really actually well done

[lethal roost]

i find it interesting that people complain about bruxish's color scheme when, a lot of the time, people don't do so for blacephalon (the same colors)

[dusty arrow]

dont care bruxish still bad

[meager python]

But its those colors done well

[silent acorn]

Yeha but that's secondary to the fact is a fire monkey it doesn't suddenly get a staff and starts jumping thousands of meters, it's still a monkey that has a fire spirit

[lethal roost]

i disagree? blacephalon might actually be more in your face with the stark white

[meager python]

It’s literally a clown and its supposed to look stupid but not ugly

[dusty arrow]

because blacephalon doesnt have fifty billion things going on at once, its just "silly explosion clown"
also it has a beautiful shiny

[grave jolt]

I criticize both

[raw bison]

I just want people to acknowledge that it's not a bad design, you just don't like it. And that's fine! It's a campy mon, and not everybody will like that. I don't even like it, but I still respect it for what it does.

[lethal roost]

what is bruxish's shiny not beautiful 🥺

[meager python]

But you say this like people dont complain about blacephalon

[dusty arrow]

no its fuck ugly

[lethal roost]

pizza looking ass

[drowsy drift]

erm, if I don't like it then it's bad 💅

[dusty arrow]

its fucking MOLDY

[meager python]

See it actually looks decent when its colors are changed

[lethal roost]

the complaints on blacephalon are rarely the color scheme though its usually either "its a UB" or "the body is weird"

[meager python]

While still not pleasing to look at its still WAY better

[dusty arrow]

tf is wrong with people hating ubs

[raw bison]

But ultimately just because you don't enjoy something doesn't mean it's objectively bad. Not everything in the world is made specifically for the average person to like it. This is for the weirdos who like campy shit, and godspeed to em

[meager python]

Its usually a mix from what I have seen.

[drowsy drift]

xenophobic

[brisk vessel]

"they don't look like Pokemon" yeah that's the point good job sherlock

[meager python]

Based

[lethal roost]

something something "theyd need a special event" (mind you in the original SM the event was "they are unceremoniously dropped onto a random route go catch it") or "we'd need all of them" (see Sun/Moon again)

[meager python]

Except they DO look like pokemon…. Just from another world… like what they are

[drowsy drift]

I don't really like the idea of UBs fusing with pokemon since they're a whole different kind of organisms

[dusty arrow]

that reminds me of another thing
i had a ronald mcdonald avatar on roblox and people would call me a clown
which means i did the avatar well

[lethal roost]

eh, if its in the pokeball its a pokemon

[drowsy drift]

they aren't, they're in beast balls

[brisk vessel]

My avatar is Gross Cat from the hit mobile game The Battle Cats

[grave jolt]

Dang I'm looking up early fan concepts for Incineroar and again realizing quadrapedal Incineroar would have been great

[dusty arrow]

HELL YEAH BATTLE CATS

[silent acorn]

This is really pretty yeah

[meager python]

But that could make really wacky fusions… don’t underestimate the creativity of spriters

[brisk vessel]

I hope meloetta gets in I wanna make Moneko from The Battle Cats

[drowsy drift]

maybe if the UBs were added and they could only be fused with other UBs. I'd be down for that 100%

[lethal roost]

that just seems like an extremely weird restriction for a game called "infinite fusion"

[meager python]

An example of a “pokemon” is the porygon line. While not being the traditional look of a pokemon they still make unique and fun fusions

[drowsy drift]

but the fusers only work on pokemon

[brisk vessel]

Game called infinite fusions

You know what else is Infinite?

Eter

[meager python]

They are still pokemon, just from another world

Its like saying lions arent animals because they are from another continent

[drowsy drift]

pokemon exist in ultraspace too, but they aren't ultra beasts

[meager python]

Same as legendaries. Its distorted space, odd pokemon are bound to happen

[lethal roost]

Deoxys is pretty alien but the fusers still work there; Giratina is from a mirror world

[dusty arrow]

can we delete only pikachu from the game

[drowsy drift]

they're both arceus' blessed children like the rest of the pokemon

[meager python]

Beheem is literally an alien…

[grave jolt]

Replace it with Pachirisu 😉

[silent acorn]

Can we agree the categories are just the people in game not knowing how to classify these pokemon as? Like how in final fantasy they keep inventing jargon every single game?

[wind valley]

Haha, no! That would be lame! It’s better if they could fuse with other pokemon. Hell, the blocky UB pokemon would probably make a ton of building based fusions. Like there’s one that looks like the MC stronghold; only a different color!

[dusty arrow]

no

[drowsy drift]

explain why the beast ball works the way it does

[silent acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/sentenced-judge-gavel-life-guilty-gif-12655798582307372829

[meager python]

Stalattaka would make amazing building mons

[lethal roost]

beast ball was designed off a pokeball to work better on UBs, i think it's the same underlying tech though

[drowsy drift]

it has a 0.1x effectivness on pokemon

[silent acorn]

Because its adapt via pseudo science nonsense the writers created to make an item that would be extra content in the game files

[meager python]

But you can still catch UBs with a pokeball

[silent acorn]

Also to baby grab everyone with another tool other than the usual ultra ball

[drowsy drift]

a very very very low chance to

[silent acorn]

Its like using a heavy ball pretty useless on most stuff

[drowsy drift]

nope, it's 1x minimum

[raw bison]

UltraBeasts are kind of pokemon that aren't native to our "dimension" and presumably the Beast Ball simulates Ultra Space, making them more comfortable in it and thus less interested in breaking out.

UltraBeasts are interdimensional invasisve species

[meager python]

But still possible.
They are still from another dimension, distored and twisted from the our dimension. Things are bound to be different

[lethal roost]

Necrozma and Cosmoem's line are also from The Other Dimension, and pokeballs work just fine. Gaming abstraction?

[drowsy drift]

pokemon also exist in those dimensions, as do ultra beasts

[silent acorn]

Yeah pseudo science explanation for another pokeball

[raw bison]

I'd guess that Necrozma and Cosmog's family are naturalized, in that they've both spent enough time in our dimension that they've adapted to it

[drowsy drift]

necrozma is a pokemon

[meager python]

The UBs are just special anomalies from those dimensions

[lethal roost]

depends on the canon; in the manga Necrozma is a UB
because the entire thing is bullshit

[brisk vessel]

I don't think Necrozma is naturalized by the time we encounter it

[silent acorn]

Like Kartana being able to cut skyscrapers that's pretty bonkers

[meager python]

But they are still in their OWN dimensions. You cant find a UB in a normal dimension, only in a special wormhole can you find one

[raw bison]

Fair, he is still kind of super messed up though, so who knows

[drowsy drift]

necrozma:
-doesn't get the benefit of increased catch rate in the beast ball
-never referred to as an UB in the pokedex
-pokemon Home also doesn't categorize it as an UB

[silent acorn]

Hang on, explain nagadandel

[lethal roost]

but is this a gaming abstraction?
in the anime it's also referred to as a UB for a while, until they stop

[brisk vessel]

Its the Starter of ultra space

[meager python]

Yea in that dimension they also catch pokemon…

[outer matrix]

Probably because it's made to be the third legendary of Gen 7 and they didn't want players to easily capture it with beast balls, despite being an ultra beast

[lethal roost]

like outside of the games a solid portion of Necrozma's appearances are classified as UB

[meager python]

We are literally gifted an already caught UB

[raw bison]

Huh...Necrozma is almost a refugee analogy, if the other UBs are considered invaders...abused as heck in his world of origin, dives into ours looking for any way out

[drowsy drift]

then why does even pokemon home not call it an ultra beast when every other ultra beast is called an ultra beast?

[lethal roost]

also, interestingly enough, the gift Poipole is in a regular Pokeball

[brisk vessel]

I think that's just called laziness

[lethal roost]

so people on the other side do have Pokeballs. either that or im being trolled

[meager python]

Because gamefreak

[drowsy drift]

not really compelling since they'd just be "forgetting" multiple multiple times for many years

[meager python]

I think this is also another “because gamefreak “ moments

[grave jolt]

I'm fine with not calling Necrozma an ultrabeast, entirely so I can like it 😎 👍

[meager python]

It has already been stated that in the anime it is referred to as a UB

[lethal roost]

I think Necrozma not being classed as a UB in the games is a gaming abstraction
since it'd need to be a box legendary

and by the Wisdom of Game Freak apparently these two things are mutually exclusive

[meager python]

Necrozma is a legendary technically not a UB

[drowsy drift]

when does the anime canon trump or alter the games? only here or????

[dusty arrow]

but base necrosma isnt even a box legend, only dusk mane and dawn wings

[meager python]

The games could he argued that gamefreak didnt think that far into it or they couldnt lable it as multiple things so they went with what it is best

[drowsy drift]

based on what?

[brisk vessel]

Based on Deez n

[lethal roost]

im saying that its classification as Not an Ultra Beast could be a gaming abstraction to make it a box legend instead

the way you encounter Necrozma in both Sun/Moon and USUM is extremely similar to what happens with the other UBs

[lethal roost]

i.e. "the game needs it to not be a UB so you can catch it"

[drowsy drift]

there are multiple multiple places where necrozma and the cosmog line are distrinctly, purposefully NOT called ultra beasts in the games, pokedex, and home

[meager python]

You know what fuck it.

This is getting NOWHERE. Court dismissed, lack of clear evidence on both sides.

[lethal roost]

ultra beasts, interestingly, are classified as legendary pokemon sometimes.

[meager python]

Both could be equally correct and incorrect

[lethal roost]

in games, not in manga or anime or anything else. just in games.

[grave jolt]

Necrozma good because it gives armor 👍

[lethal roost]

but one would not usually consider them to be. because the assumption is that they aren't because they're UBs

[drowsy drift]

bulbapedia has a good amount of what I'm talking about here:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ultra_Beast#Related_Pok.C3.A9mon

[meager python]

Why does this argument even matter?

[lethal roost]

because moon said UBs shouldnt be able to fuse with non-UB mons

[meager python]

Does it change the way they look if they are classed differently? No

[lethal roost]

yeah but biology!!!!

or some shit apparently i dont actually care this is infinite fusion and i will fuse things with other things

[dusty arrow]

idea: ultra beasts can only be fused using a new item (ultra splicer)
it costs a bit more than regular splicers i guess

[drowsy drift]

I'd be happy with this

[lethal roost]

seems silly.

[brisk vessel]

That sounds like unnecessary coding

[hushed mantle]

No thanks

[dusty arrow]

you sound like unnecessary atoms

[lethal roost]

i seriously think treating UBs differently from other pokemon might be a recipe for disaster
outside of the beast ball thing

[brisk vessel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/484076945223581698/991792325149872158/6EBEC5DB-DAD8-4989-9D71-DCE0581269CD.gif

[dusty arrow]

your name is above the text box

[drowsy drift]

pokemon fans when fictional worlds have consistency 😡

[brisk vessel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/411605881336365068/954807194904318022/F1281890-2430-421C-9A85-2E9FABF113B7.gif

[lethal roost]

its not like the pokemon world is that consistent either lmfao?

[hushed mantle]

Damn…

[dusty arrow]

skeledirge

[grave jolt]

Idea: Ultra Beasts don't get into the game
Really though, there's a reason I put them in the ultrahell tier.

[lethal roost]

there used to be actual animals in the pokemon world and then they Mysteriously Vanished

[drowsy drift]

where were they in the games?

[brisk vessel]

I eated them all 😁

[cold fog]

I mean, the game is already held by used duct tape at this point, even with the work put towards it. Adding a new feature like this may very well brake the game. 😅

[lethal roost]

in the dex entries.

[dusty arrow]

when they showed up its because they didnt have enough pokemon at the time lmao

[hushed mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/curry-discord-text-box-gif-26230357

[dusty arrow]

like when raichu had the indian elephant thing, there were no elephant pokemon

[lethal roost]

idea: don't do anything weird with the ultra beasts and just... let Infinite Fusion live up to its name

[brisk vessel]

Did they ever change it to Copperajah

[lethal roost]

they did

[dusty arrow]

yes

[lethal roost]

if Ultra Beasts exist in an alternate universe that also has Pokemon, would they not be children of that universe's Mew?

[hushed mantle]

Legends arceus raichu entry states that

[grave jolt]

God, we really need some more early route pokemon...

[lethal roost]

like UBs are speculative biology

[dusty arrow]

like starly

[lethal roost]

because the wormholes do contain other worlds that have our universe's pokemon in them

[alpine rune]

just play modern mode

[grave jolt]

slap starly into route 1 and 2, and Pachirisu into Veridian

[drowsy drift]

be like current romhacks and put like 400 pokemon in the first 2 routes for no reason

[lethal roost]

finally, inclement emerald

[dusty arrow]

pachirisu can suffocate in sand for all i care

[cold fog]

one great reason why Venipede line was awesome to see added 👍 Weak enough to be found in earlier routes, but the evos can be used throughtout the game

[dusty arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/archeops-pokemon-pokeplush-pokemon-plush-plush-gif-6766593941031228586

[grave jolt]

Emolga and Pachi get into the game, what're you doing then huh?

[dusty arrow]

nothing
because they arent getting in the game

oh, and ill just use mamoswine.

[lethal roost]

we do need a fighting type though seriously

[brisk vessel]

Like mel

[lethal roost]

i would take crabominable at this point 🤮

[drowsy drift]

https://tenor.com/view/medicham-hypnosis-cute-gif-26865166

[dusty arrow]

kommo-o, mienshao, uhh

[lethal roost]

there's no guarantee that relic song will work though? maybe

[dusty arrow]

ew

[drowsy drift]

medicham would be a great pick

[grave jolt]

just get any fire starter /j

[brisk vessel]

Relic song is already in this game

And if they don't make it work like that then it will be its own separate thing with entirely different fusions 😭

[drowsy drift]

a second pick for pure/huge power

[dusty arrow]

i dont like medichams head thing
or lips

[lethal roost]

pure power is funny but i dont like medicham as a design

[brisk vessel]

Medicham is ugly and really only gives fighting and Pure Power

[lethal roost]

yeah that second thing is what i'm fearing.

[dusty arrow]

if i wanted a huge/pure power mon ill just use diggersby my beloved

[lethal roost]

besides its not enough fighting types. one is not enough

[drowsy drift]

hariyama

[dusty arrow]

hariyama is ok

[lethal roost]

im not picking fuckin hariyama

[brisk vessel]

Iron hand fusions

[outer matrix]

Real talk: what fusions would benefit from Pure Power?

[drowsy drift]

and bewear. bewear might be the best actual choice because of its unique ability and good fusion design concepts

[lethal roost]

yeah i cant wait for Smelling Salts the most move of all time

[dusty arrow]

azumarill is in the game

[dusty arrow]

dont forget 20 bp knock off

[outer matrix]

That's Huge Power, not Pure Power

[brisk vessel]

They are exactly the same

[lethal roost]

they're the same ability.

[dusty arrow]

also, azumarill gets aqua jet + is a fairy type

[brisk vessel]

It's like comparing Clear Body with White Smoke

[lethal roost]

oh yeah knock off, the move every other mon gets

[dusty arrow]

medicham doesnt even fucking get mach punch lmao

[grave jolt]

Hariyama would be pretty good

[lethal roost]

i mean it could get mach punch

[drowsy drift]

fuse it with something that does?

[lethal roost]

hawlucha.

[outer matrix]

OK, so why is pure power and huge power the same? That makes having medicham more bad because it'll bring in another identical ability

[dusty arrow]

and potentially lose the fighting type?

[drowsy drift]

it also gets bullet punch and fake out

[brisk vessel]

Exactly

[dusty arrow]

neither are stab

[drowsy drift]

if only there was a solution for that

[dusty arrow]

cant have both, dont try the fusion thing

[grave jolt]

Gotta get something for my no-fusion hardcore nuzlocke

[dusty arrow]

also FAKE OUT ISNT EVEN THAT RARE

[outer matrix]

What abilities from any of the vote 'mons seems the most useful for a playthrough then?

[brisk vessel]

Soul heart

[cinder oasis]

Idk about gen 7 but Currently it is quite rare

[dusty arrow]

any stat boosting one

[brisk vessel]

Moxie but for special attack sounds pretty strong

[drowsy drift]

focus less on useful and instead on interesting

[loud depot]

Meh
Goomy
Well at least slug dragon is cooler than those fucking birds

[dusty arrow]

which is why drampa is great

[drowsy drift]

imagine getting mad at oricorio

[lethal roost]

WATER BUBBLE

[cinder oasis]

Steelworker, water bubble, Berserk and a few more

[dusty arrow]

golisopod is better

[lethal roost]

AAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

[brisk vessel]

Oh yeah Araquanid could be cool

[dusty arrow]

too bad it competes with golisopod

[brisk vessel]

Water bubble is op

[lethal roost]

oh yeah araquanid's not getting in im just saying

[loud depot]

Goomy is the type of Pokémon used by people that use 🥺

[dusty arrow]

understandable

[grave jolt]

well pachirisu gets pick up
Walrein gets Ice Body, which would be interesting to mess with on a hail team.

[lethal roost]

also Shields Down is immensely funny, it's like Stance Change but better

[dusty arrow]

oh yeah with all the SNOW WARNING POKEMON WE DONT HAVE

[brisk vessel]

Delibird 👍

[lethal roost]

actually delibird has snow warning in this game.
i cannot stress enough the agony i felt upon learning this

[drowsy drift]

i want darmanitan just to try and make something fun using zen mode

[dusty arrow]

lol.
lmao.

[lethal roost]

anyway im not using fucking delibird as a snow setter so i live in hope for aurorus

[cinder oasis]

Comatose is also morbidly overpowered too lol

[trail hull]

Wow , I wake up and goomy is added in

[dusty arrow]

komala my love

[lethal roost]

Comatose would be funny but I don't think Komala is very interesting as fusion material. i think i had it at 1 just because comatose is silly though

[dusty arrow]

komala holding onto sudowoodo would be pretty funny ngl

[loud depot]

Garbodor is more exciting than birds and goo

[cinder oasis]

I think komala is fine but the overpowered ability is all it has going for it

[dusty arrow]

live shedinja reaction

[lethal roost]

i dont think garbodor is better than oricorio but it is probably around how i feel about sliggoo

[loud depot]

Goodra is for people that speak in UwU

[brisk vessel]

Live dies to spikes/stealth rocks reaction

[loud depot]

Look at its face

[lethal roost]

oh no, a pokemon has a cutesy face

[dusty arrow]

live tyranitar reaction

[hushed mantle]

here's my cool and awesome list updated

[cinder oasis]

Wonder guard is obviously the best ability in the entire game but Comatose is also morbidly overpowered

[lethal roost]

well pack it up boys i guess goodra is bad now ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dusty arrow]

better than picasso

[trail hull]

So we only have 7 slot left

[brisk vessel]

They didn't say that they said it's an "uwu" mon

[lethal roost]

they're pretty heavily implying it

[cinder oasis]

Nerd

[marsh lily]

Look at the state of that Goomy.

[lethal roost]

tbf they have the same designer as a lot of the cute face mons and galvantula for some reason

[loud depot]

The UwU designer

[lethal roost]

i mean galvantula has a 🥺 face too

[loud depot]

Bottom face

[dusty arrow]

captain carl have you seen your pfp

[loud depot]

Yes mothman

[brisk vessel]

Its more of an 👁️👄👁️

[loud depot]

Mothman is our savior

Same for Jack frost

[dusty arrow]

butterflywoman superior

[brisk vessel]

I'm gonna sprite Suu from MonMusu using goodra now bye chat

[dusty arrow]

fear

[drowsy drift]

really phoned it in with indeedee

[lethal roost]

indeedee is definitely one of the pokemon of all time

[dusty arrow]

glalie/porygon = minecraft ghast

[lethal roost]

i did not like sword and shield and they did not help

[mossy locust]

bro I check in to this place after a few days, look in the announcements, the goodra line making it in got my grown behind screaming YES like an idiot at 1 in the morning

[drowsy drift]

I will go as far as to say that indeedee is actually just a badly designed pokemon

meowstic, but worse

[dusty arrow]

grown?

[lethal roost]

yeah thats what i was going to say

[dusty arrow]

i dont believe you

[mossy locust]

bro it's like one in the morning, my brain turned off like two hours ago

[brisk vessel]

I'm fusing goodra with Gardevoir now you can't stop me

[cinder oasis]

What

[dusty arrow]

please make a normal goodevoir or at least make the ref look like its parts

[lethal roost]

im sure it will be a very normal goodevoir 👍

[cinder oasis]

I think indeedee is ok

[brisk vessel]

It will at least resemble it's parts

[drowsy drift]

bad opinion

[lethal roost]

interestingly there actually isnt a goodra/gardevoir up right now.

[cinder oasis]

Why

[dusty arrow]

thank you

[brisk vessel]

Good it means I can claim dibs

[dusty arrow]

(reference sprites that look nothing like its parts are trash)

[cinder oasis]

It looks funny and I like the croissant horns

[drowsy drift]

what is going on with its torso

[wind pagoda]

ate a chess pawn for lunch

[loud depot]

Garbodor is more exciting than goo and bird because of fusion design potential

[cinder oasis]

The male torso is really bad though ngl

[dusty arrow]

the bird has a lot of fusion potential though wdym

[cinder oasis]

Boy oh boy do I love literal Garbage

[loud depot]

The worst design is that one dog looking crap from scarlet violet that evolves into something that looks the same

[dusty arrow]

mabostiff or houndstone or fidough

[drowsy drift]

you'll need to be more specific, there's more than one

[cinder oasis]

Mabosstiff is really meh fr

[lethal roost]

mabosstiff is not the worst dogmon but it is definitely down there

[loud depot]

Yes literal garbage has funny potential for it with other Pokémon

[drowsy drift]

gamefreak really said "we want the 'you can pet the dog' audiance"

[lethal roost]

boltund's existence is straight up a negative on our reality

[dusty arrow]

what about yamper

[lethal roost]

yamper is... only tolerable

[cinder oasis]

I like yamper and despise boltund

[drowsy drift]

going from yamper to boltund is like going from b/w to x/y

[sullen elbow]

Somehow worse than manectric

[lethal roost]

no, yamper to boltund is more like going from xy to swsh

[mossy locust]

remember how mega manetric was literally just a walking lightning bolt :V

[dusty arrow]

then what is tepig to pignite or chespin to quilladin

[lethal roost]

manectric, at least, advertises how it is an electric type

[loud depot]

Cheerleader birds are more garbage than garbodor

[lethal roost]

ok this is cap

[drowsy drift]

oricorio has dancer which is a super cool ability. opinion invalidated

[mossy locust]

honestly I don't think they're bad, they're just kinda mid.

[lethal roost]

oricorio has made plenty of fascinating fusions already

[cinder oasis]

Cheerleader birds are mid but better than the shitter Garbodor

[lethal roost]

people haven't really used the "garbage" aspect of garbodor and trubbish to do anything interesting, from what i've seen

[drowsy drift]

oricorio and garbodor didn't even take up slots from the vote so not sure why it's worth complaining about

[dusty arrow]

garbodor, goodra, and oricorio are all good pokemon

[mossy locust]

when gen 5 was out I would make the "what was going on in the boardroom when they came up with this" joke when we got a literal burst open trash bag for a pokemon

[dusty arrow]

grimer
muk

[lethal roost]

ok so people have done different varieties of garbage for trubbish like... once

[cinder oasis]

Seel

[mossy locust]

I'm not a gen1nner, I'm just saying it's unique

[drowsy drift]

muk is cool, sorry to the haters.

[dusty arrow]

muk backwards

[mossy locust]

hehe

[drowsy drift]

alolan muk is one of my favorites

[lethal roost]

me having to explain that a simple design is actually ok to my friends for the 99th time:
(electrode is fine)

[cinder oasis]

Seel is one of the worst pokemon of all time

[mossy locust]

agree

[lethal roost]

ok yeah seel and dewgong really needed some... patterns? or anything?

[loud depot]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/543958354377179176/1149797169155539044/435.89.png

[lethal roost]

monochrome white is depressing

[cinder oasis]

That looks nasty as hell goddamn

[loud depot]

This is great

[lethal roost]

you do understand that that's just Gmax Garbodor but weird, right/

[mossy locust]

it's even got bits in it like the toy boat from it's gigantamax what the

[loud depot]

Yes, that's why I like it

[cinder oasis]

Nerd

[lethal roost]

it took me far, far too long to figure out what the other mon was meant to be

[oak ravine]

I'll take Muk over Garbodor any day... The Goodra line is a cool addition, but I'm still hoping for Aurorus and Clawitzer

[outer matrix]

I never realized this but why is the clefable doll so large? it's as large as the car itself

[drowsy drift]

clawitzer doesn't do it for me personally but aurorus would be cool

[dusty arrow]

dynamax clefable doll

[lethal roost]

aurorus when?

[loud depot]

Trash dino

[drowsy drift]

Refrigerate would be a fun ability to play around with, plus having a legit Snow Warning user

[loud depot]

Deserved to be separated from the actual cool dinosaur from that gen

[mossy locust]

yeah, when it comes to the gen 6 fossils I think we got the better of the two already.

[cinder oasis]

Both would be cool

[lethal roost]

problem with that: i want a snow warning mon that isn't named fucking delibird

[loud depot]

Too bad, suffer

[mossy locust]

that's a mood honestly

[drowsy drift]

I think the spriters could do some pretty great things with the design. one of the pokemon that would benefit from fusion a lot even though it sucks in the actual games

[dusty arrow]

delibad

[lethal roost]

and abomasnow and vanilluxe are actually just not getting into the game

[loud depot]

Good, fuck obamasnow

[lethal roost]

like full stop that's just not happening, the polls were a popularity contest

[cinder oasis]

Gamefreak when they released Delibird, Mawile, Smeargle and Sableye:

[loud depot]

Cmon America bird

[cinder oasis]

L opinion

[lethal roost]

i like how Game Freak felt the need to actively fuck sableye over in DP for no reason

[mossy locust]

isn't that just like, how polls work tho? Every poll is just "which one was voted most"

[lethal roost]

by giving it a new ability that's genuine garbage

[loud depot]

Grass Ice lmao

[lethal roost]

yeah but when people think "oh i want [unpopular mon] it's great fusion material/it's good ingame"

realize that most people did not think of that. they just said "ooooooh starters" and ended up nearly taking 9 slots

[drowsy drift]

(knows their metagame is almost entirely based on speed) what if we made an ability that made you go Last?

[mossy locust]

that's fair.

[lethal roost]

on a pokemon that was already 50 speed

on a pokemon that like... wasnt even good in the first place??? its 380 BST lmfao

[cinder oasis]

Still better than Oricorio and Garbodor lol

[lethal roost]

ok what is with the oricorio slander

[dusty arrow]

wrong

[drowsy drift]

they didnt even take up voting slots

[cinder oasis]

Oh no, I like oricorio I just mean Abomasnow is a better Pokémon in combat

[loud depot]

Garbodor is cool but yeah obamasnow is cooler than bird

[dusty arrow]

kid named ember

[drowsy drift]

play a doubles playthrough with dancer oricorio fusions

[cinder oasis]

It is still better than both

[grave jolt]

Ahem...Walrein

[lethal roost]

nah just rev up a Dragon Dance/Dancer mon

[lethal roost]

walrein doesnt get snow warning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dusty arrow]

or quiver

[sharp sphinx]

aurorus

[loud depot]

Bring out spheal

[dusty arrow]

walrein is a slot waste because lapras exists

[cinder oasis]

Tell ‘em Bring out the the whole ocean 🌊

[lethal roost]

walrein is a pokemon id want if we had 40 slots instead of 20

[sharp sphinx]

.... yknow pokemon cna have value beyon type combos ceo

[grave jolt]

IT DOESN'T DANG

[loud depot]

Not a waste
Spheal

[dusty arrow]

not worth it for three slots

[lethal roost]

Walrein is perfectly solid in battle and I respect Spheal but goddamn there are so many other pokemon I'd want before it

[loud depot]

Spheal is god

[grave jolt]

Walrein and spheal.

[dusty arrow]

no, bidoof and lechonk

[cinder oasis]

Walrein is absolute ass but I like walrein

[drowsy drift]

dewgong has like no custom sprites as it is, if walrein was added he'd never get any more

[lethal roost]

nah walrein has design elements unlike dewgong

[loud depot]

Yeah it'd be spheal sprites

[drowsy drift]

I'd rather just remove dewgong from the game

[cinder oasis]

Dewgong is dogshit

It’s literally just a seal

[dusty arrow]

yall arent even talking about lapras just being better

[grave jolt]

God please, trade Seel and Dewgong for Spheal and Walrein

[lethal roost]

lapras doesn't have the same design

[loud depot]

Spheal supremacy

[dusty arrow]

wrong, dumbass
thats seel

[cinder oasis]

Both are literally just seals monkey

[lethal roost]

like i dont care that lapras is better in battle from a purely design perspective

walrein is like. okay. slightly above average

[drowsy drift]

seel despite the name is classified as the sea lion pokemon, despite that being a completely different species

[dusty arrow]

no dewgong is a fucking dugong

[lethal roost]

then again im the type of person who wants fucking Sigilyph so maybe I'm the dumbass

[cinder oasis]

Then it’s just a regular ass dugong

[cinder oasis]

The horror I have witnessed just now

[grave jolt]

Dewgong is really just "Seel but bigger" tbh

[lethal roost]

seel but bigger and with somehow less colors

[dusty arrow]

dugongs and manatees are precious, do not slander them

[drowsy drift]

they needed to lean a little more into its fin design which is a unique part of it

[lethal roost]

or design elements for that matter

they couldve at least put a pattern or something on them

[dusty arrow]

also, THE FUCK YOU EXPECT FROM A GEN 1 POKEMON?

[cinder oasis]

The only design element is the Spike

[drowsy drift]

the fins are also very thin

[cinder oasis]

Me when Alakazam exists

[lethal roost]

i know Krabby exists. this is not an excuse for dewgong

[drowsy drift]

krabby is a good design, cry about it

[dusty arrow]

also not an excuse for: grimer, muk, voltorb, electrode, ditto

[drowsy drift]

all good designs

[dusty arrow]

sludge, sludge, pokeball, upside down pokeball, and sludge

[drowsy drift]

pokeball
ever heard of a mimic?

[dusty arrow]

yeah but its still a ball
WHICH IS ANOTHER REASON WE DONT NEED SPHEAL

[lethal roost]

electrode makes sense as a mimic, ditto transforms into another pokemon so its design is naturally malleable, and muk is a slime

[dusty arrow]

crab

[drowsy drift]

the items you pick up in the game are pokeballs. voltob looks like a pokeball. it's a mimic. pokemon is an rpg.

[cinder oasis]

Ain’t no way bro just said we don’t need Spheal because electrode is a ball

[dusty arrow]

i did. what are you gonna do? yell at me over the internet?

[cinder oasis]

That’s just uneducated

[dusty arrow]

hurt my feelers?

[lethal roost]

i mean i dont think we need spheal either but "because its also an orb" is a little silly

mostly its because i have trouble envisioning what, exactly, a spheal body fusion entails

[inland jewel]

with the addition of Goodra, i feel like we need Spheal even less, since we have ANOTHER orb

[dusty arrow]

alright fuckin water drops

[lethal roost]

also yeah goomy kinda took the circular creature monopoly

[dusty arrow]

yes, goomy already fits the bill for head empty ball

[drowsy drift]

speaking of sludge, grimer's pokedex entry is insane

Sludge that was transformed when exposed to X-rays from the moon.
what the fuck

[dusty arrow]

weresludge???

[lethal roost]

did you know that Muk gets Moonblast but it took 10 years for Wigglytuff to get it

[cinder oasis]

Womp womp

[dusty arrow]

wigglytuff finally got moonblast??

[lethal roost]

Wigglytuff only just got Moonblast access in Teal Mask yes

[drowsy drift]

does it really? wow