Hexis (Beta)

[hollow forge]

Hello hello! This is Hexis, my solo project attempting to add a layered overhaul to Vintage Story’s combat. Please take a look at the mod page for more details!

Link to the mod page is here:

https://mods.vintagestory.at/hexis

[empty zinc]

Is this mod like mountblade?

With hold attacks and feinting etc

[idle minnow]

Hello!

So big thing I found similar about what I've written for developing in the future (but kinda got demotivated) was UC text full in on a easy approach to HEMA combat. And biggest unique thing is the blocking system which would rely on basically the player putting their weapon or shield/buckler into Point which then would require the blade to become a hitbox that would trigger an animation for individually both for the one that struck the hitbox and the one doing the point, the animation would be triggered to be 4 different kinds of swiping motions to redirect the blow away, meanwhile the opponent after having connected with said blocking hitbox would have their strike directed away.

With the Point block which I genuinely would just put on RMB you should be able to do a quick stab attack at about 400ms that would be a sort of back off or "keep distance" tool. So combat becomes a lot more about spacing. Also for your Stances I recommend having a keybind Like R perhaps be what puts you into a sort of combat mode with your the weapons you're wielding, otherwise your weapons would be mainly in a resting state.

then for if you do the stances system and you can have it's new movement system be toggled on R you can then disable jumping and have autoclimb 1 block on so that dodging becomes spacebar.

and dodges could be more akin to a simple passing step.

So if you like the idea of this then please feel free to use it!

I'm not developing on the documents I wrote until I move out of my apartment, so it'll be a year or two. And Vintage Story deserves a good combat system that isn't just Combat Overhaul.

It should fit the philosophical factors of giving players a good system to work with in both team fights which includes PVE & PVP. But allow slowly after configuration for actual tactics to work as a result of the mechanical implementations.

(and there's much more I can share that also would go into grappling moves and a way of being "knocked over" that would trigger a being 70% more vulnerable to critical hit chances.)

[empty zinc]

@idle minnow Can be easily done with CO addon I'm making one myself in regards to stances

And funny seeing you here

[hollow forge]

Interestingly, I had already been considering Langenort (which is what I believe the image you attached depicts?) as a possible expression of Low stance, amongst others. I did some minor animation work for it, but haven’t decided whether I’ll implement it.

The main criterion for such systems is basically:

What kind of embodied state or disposition am I in? → what follows?

So, as you would have seen in the handbook, if Low is about creating space, undermining the enemy, and avoiding confrontation, then the mechanics and behaviour that follow from inhabiting that state should reflect those things.

I think the Point system you outline is really interesting in that regard, as you could plausibly arrive at something in the same area from the questions above.

I’m curious if that was how you approached your own system, or if you arrived at it from a different direction? Like having a background in HEMA, for example.

On the R key toggle, I don’t really see combat (at least for Hexis) as a discrete mode that you step into. It’s more something that’s always potentially live depending on your current state. So the moment an enemy despawns, Low still has functional weight, and the disposition itself still remains.

[hollow forge]

I haven’t played much mountblade, so I can’t speak to how close the overlap actually is. For the new animations in v0.1.4, when you’re in High stance, movement shows intent and attacking is the subsequent affirmation of that. So moving left gives you access to a left-sided horizontal attack, moving forward gives you a downward one, and so on. These are currently visual/postural only, and for now function as making High stance feel embodied and expressive.

[empty zinc]

It's very simple I dont wanna overcomplicate it, but its bascially a CO addon as that mod already adds a great foundation for alot of combat needs, also with F you can have difference stances so I could for instance change my longsword into a mordhau, but the fundamentals are basically directional combat and blocking I am currently animation the blocking and gonna test it, I already got hold attacks and feinting in

Gonna test this mod out tho looks interesting

[hollow forge]

Sounds cool! I will say that I use stances as a word more as a shorthand. The message I sent to Blanq just before explains it a bit better. The handbook entries would be the thing to look at for more context after that.

[empty zinc]

Yeahh the animations look very crips I am still learning to animate lol

See I got hold attacks in

[hollow forge]

Make sure to look at the recent changelog for the anim command!

[empty zinc]

Repurposing longsword of CO

[empty zinc]

Will do 💪

[hollow forge]

I really like how you have that slow down/freeze frame as a hit lands

[empty zinc]

Yeahh its native of combat overhaul thats why I tho it would have been wiser to make a addon cus it adds a hit detection system instead of the ray thingy

Tho its not as flashy as your mod tho haha

[hollow forge]

Yeah that’s fair. It wouldn’t be too hard to animate I think. You’d just duplicate a key frame so it looks like it’s paused, or you really slow it down for a split second.

Thats excluding any code weirdness where you’d have to change the animation if a hit lands or not haha.

[empty zinc]

Yeahh its fun to learn tho if I get this sorted I can do alot more stuff

[hollow forge]

Thank you thank you

[empty zinc]

But looking forward what you cooking, great fortune to you mate

[hollow forge]

I appreciate it! Likewise

[idle minnow]

Yes you are correct that is Langenort. I tended to practition and learn from my instructors/fencing partners more than reading the manuscripts which I should be getting a few for christmas.

I do love your approach with disposition of follow up state but considering that- it makes me curious how you'd approach animating blocking from each approach because I am of the belief that the constant use of a hanging guard as the default one all purpose tool of a block makes blocking an impending blow feel not only a little unrealistic (which of course is not always a problem) and less impactful. I believe if you can do a new approach or innovate something then you should, it breaches ground for a completely new and unexplored game mechanic.

[idle minnow]

For changing into halfswording and Mordschlaug grip I'd like to think X would be a good fit for toggling between all three and it would also potentially look real smooth if you go from
Normal Longsword grip -> Halfsword -> Mordhau then back to Normal grip.

[empty zinc]

Yeahh they will be part of unlockable stances as well with RPG class mod

Fighter class, spends points into the tree can unlock more advanced stances

Send you DM btw I dont wanna clog this guys page

CO mod alot of amazing stuff build in to support stances and other things

So you only build upon as a addon saves you alot of work

[idle minnow]

As said for Hexis @hollow forge . I think you're going to need to look at all possible keys that might be popularly taken by mods that players who play with many mods or on multiplayer servers would use or add. For example eith testing for my own background VS Server project we put Hexis in and found a lot of keybind interlocking with other keybinds.

But I think all us three including @empty zinc might have something in common we could perhaps talk about more in the future.

I believe firmly that we all might be going in a very similar direction to where it could warrant a short hangout in vc, showing off eachother's visions somewhat.

[idle minnow]

Ofcourse

[quick umbra]

What system is this from? Because in Meyers we almost never use long point as described.

Oh its Italian

[quick umbra]

Anyways, Noumenon, if you'd like another perspective let me know.

[hollow forge]

Cool! As for weapons, I’m mostly coming from kobudo, so it’s quite interesting learning about the European traditions.

In terms of blocking, and this is probably my bias in the exposure I’ve had, I’d think rather in some form of redirection of force, with an equal in nature response to the aggressor. I’ve got some ideas for how to go about it, but I’ll hold off from saying a great deal till they’re further along. I can’t really see a guard as functioning as a one for all purpose blocking tool, as it’s neither realistic, nor does it make blocking feel like it’s actually responding to what’s coming at you.

[hollow forge]

Always happy to hear others thoughts

[hollow forge]

I mostly added binding options for absolutely everything just to give people flexibility to start with.

I do quite like the contextual action key (bound to the mid mouse button), then the scroll wheel for stance switching.

Overall though, the less keys people have to worry about the better.

How’d testing it on the server go? Excluding the keybinding.

[idle minnow]

I think the keybinding might've been the big gripe with it actually. it's too many keys to keep track off is what I got from multiple combat testers.

it needs simplification.

[hollow forge]

Even with the suggested keybinding in the handbook?

[idle minnow]

yup.

[hollow forge]

Noted

[idle minnow]

in terms of redirection of force, the blocking system I got designed is basically like that without any need for any animation binding between two players.

it'd look very much like what you'd see in proper fencing.

if we lay out all the keybinds and how you wish for everything to work mechanically we can probably figure out keybinds and shortcuts that don't use too many individual keys but instead using combinations.

[hollow forge]

Just for context, I did test some other ways of managing the system in terms of keybindings. The contextual keys and whatnot were what I found intuitive, and avoided the clutter of something like Chivalry 2, in my experience. It’s something I’d be open to revisiting later.

I do hope the ability to rebind everything gives people something to play with and see what they like/don’t like while I flesh out Hexis a bit more.

[quick umbra]

Its honestly not bad, even on a very laggy (at the time) server.

[hollow forge]

Was anything noticeably affected by the lag?

[quick umbra]

Not really, even the method you used for hitboxes (I'm unaware of what it is) was working despite people teleporting around.

In a way it was more reliable than vanilla combat xD

[hollow forge]

😂

[quick umbra]

I've gotta say, I'm really excited to see where the mod goes from here, considering I got to see the new animations and them being proper guards was quite the treat.

[hollow forge]

Depends on what it is. For the Hammer, where you dash forward, it checks every tick in the direction of the dash for other entities

Within a radius*

[quick umbra]

That explains why it hits pretty reliably then xD

My biggest issue with it was figuring out the range that it had, but once I did it wasn't an issue anymore.

[hollow forge]

Using the Vintage Story animator was an…. Interesting experience haha. It’s nice to know I’ve done a reasonable enough job to where they’re recognisable guards.

[quick umbra]

Oh I bet, but its still a really good and easily recognizable animation.

[hollow forge]

Hopefully the penalty for missing isn’t too bad lol

[quick umbra]

Theres a penalty for missing?

[hollow forge]

The way it’s meant to work is if you miss, you basically get a temporary speed penalty, and no recoil to the original position.

I’d be curious how reliable it is on servers in that regard.

[hollow forge]

Like a hammer missing a target, and you having to deal with the momentum

[quick umbra]

Honestly, I just thought it was lag xD

[hollow forge]

The handbook says it all! 😂

[quick umbra]

https://klipy.com/gifs/winnie-the-pooh-i-cannot-read

[hollow forge]

Alas, fair enough haha

[quick umbra]

I didn't think to check the handbook tbh, but I can read through it pretty quickly when I get the chance.

That being said, I saw earlier talks about blocking/defense, do you intend to add something akin to parries?

[hollow forge]

You’ll see a few entries. The first is the helmet before a pilot gets in the cockpit, so to speak. The second is a reference source for the mechanics. Then the others are something else.

[quick umbra]

It makes sense

[hollow forge]

Parries, albeit basic in expression at the moment, are what’s exclusive to mid stance (the Hearth).

There are a few ways I’ve thought of deepening it much more in the future, but that’s for when I’m closer to implementing it for the most part.

As for other defensive mechanics, it’s really just about how much it suits the different dispositions, and if they’re necessary mechanics for Hexis itself.

[quick umbra]

Gotcha, I ask because at least as far as the majority of weapons (excluding shields ofc) its all parries and redirections with the blade itself.

[hollow forge]

Yeah that’s right

Anyways, I need to sleep 🫡. I really appreciate the feedback!

[quick umbra]

No problem, have a good night

[hollow forge]

For those interested, the new update should be out by the end of the week, or a little later depending on other commitments.

The main additions will be:

1. Nearly full support for the Vanilla Armory mod, excluding knives and axes
2. New animations, specifically for shielded combat amongst others
3. Tuning of existing animation transitions and attacks

[idle minnow]

Could be good to make a tutorial later on.

Also there's a pretty decent rapier mod that I think could do well for some special animations for it.

[hollow forge]

I shall try at some point

[hollow forge]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/twrapiers

is it this one?

[idle minnow]

Yes that is the one

[steep wedge]

This mod is really good, only thing holding it back is the vanilla hit detection

[steep wedge]

Btw, stuns infact dont work in pvp

[whole goblet]

yes yes

[hollow forge]

Thank you! Yeah the vanilla hit detection isn’t ideal, though I presume they’ll rework it in the 1.23 update.

[hollow forge]

There’s a (non sweating) particle effect that starts from just above the centre top of an entities hitbox, and it falls to the floor at the middle of their feet. Does that appear at all if you try to stun another player?

A short video for the next update:

https://youtu.be/AIA6pA0vhLg

[viral oracle]

Damn this mod got potential ,im looking foward to a completed version

[hollow forge]

I appreciate it

Just released the new update ⚔️

[whole goblet]

Hope it’s possible to make speed matter when getting hit

I want a reason to do Calvary charges

[hollow forge]

I hadn’t thought of that actually.

I suppose you could have a momentum system, where the longer you hold the forward key in high stance the faster you’ll go.

Wind particles build up in the wake of the movement, and when you get enough momentum the only way to release it is to attack.

Sounds cool.

[hollow forge]

How would you see it working mechanically?

[viral oracle]

I haven't try multiplayer with this mod but will it have some sort of blade clash and like custom sfx and vfx

[steep wedge]

Its not that good for pvp

[viral oracle]

it just a cool vfx for parry and stuff

[hollow forge]

Is that due to the current hit detection, or is there anything else that detracts from it?

Being mindful that this is still early days

[steep wedge]

Well first, the stun hardly works on players. Second, parrying has no weight, no point in deflecting 1 attack when the other guy can spam click you to death. Lastly, light stance is useless due to the nature of vanilla hit detection, idk if theres I-frames with the dodge but it doesnt feel like it.

[hollow forge]

I appreciate the feedback, it’s genuinely useful. Stun’s issue is real, like you said, especially because I had no way to actually verify it against another player before release. I’ll see what I can do in that regard.

Parry’s fair too, as nothing currently stops the other side from just spam-clicking through it, so a successful parry doesn’t actually cost the attacker anything.

The dodge’s i-frames are there but only cover the dodge’s own short duration, so it’s not buying much against sustained attacks.

All three are on my radar now.

Thank you again.

[whole goblet]

Probably what you said

Where if you just run in a straight line in a single stance you can build up momentum

Allows charges and Calvary charges

This would also be effected by movement speed compared to base

[hollow forge]

Wouldn’t be too hard to implement, and I very much like the idea!

[viral oracle]

I also think a penalties should be applied for a failed calvary charge or mischarge into terrain , like stance losing for missing or stun when charge into block or high tier armored target.

[whole goblet]

On top of ripping off from Mount and blade, perhaps a projectile speed buff/distance increases damage? If I recall shooting directly above a target by letting gravity do the work does more damage than a straight line

[whole goblet]

Personally after a certain speed you should be allowed to “block break”

Where the sheer momentum allows you to bypass the block but at a disadvantage

[hollow forge]

I haven’t played Mount and blade, so I wouldn’t know

[whole goblet]

Aww man I love Mount and blade

Not sure if it’s in your back alley but if horses and mounts had proper collision and knocked players down and did damage that would be cool too