Glockmaker

[frozen agate]

I had to call out the 2 AR platforms off of the top of my head that don't match lmao, but yeah^ all AR lowers can easily be swapped even between manufacturers, models, calibers etc

[humble junco]

I don't see this as a problem personally, but I do consider them all the same gun

[devout panther]

look up the tkvp370

[grizzled agate]

i do find that less ugly than the tt33

its not just super tall slide

[devout panther]

I love the caliber it shoots 762x25 is just a cute little bullet

[humble junco]

Ew what the fuck is that?

That thing is a sin lmao

Why is the barrel so short?

[humble junco]

That round is hilariously Russian mindset

[spring ledge]

Matilda my beloved

[real bronze]

So nobody is talking about my C96?

[spring ledge]

That would be goated

Currently at work so I only catch snippets

[spring ledge]

Beautiful piece though~

[real bronze]

Thanks, cost me a pretty penny as well.

[spring ledge]

I can only imagine how many kidneys you turned in

[fading kite]

Could you please make mod that adds AK and ar, m4a1 rifles to the game. Or any other auto guns

Great addition for medieval style survival 😂

[devout panther]

its also a burst gun

[humble junco]

why TwT

[devout panther]

I LOVE THAT GUN DONT DISRESPECT IT

[real bronze]

It's 2k usd

[frozen agate]

So how about, uhh, 2 birds one stone

[mild shuttle]

I hate those modifications that essentially turn a whole pistol into a receiver…

[real bronze]

That's cursed, if you just want to go there, just make the Hi-Point, it's cheap IRL (120-190 USD MSRP) and easy to make, and doesn't require the complicated Browning Reciprocal Locks, it's pretty much a straight blowback pistol.

https://share.google/s3WngluZjfC2Owzwl

https://share.google/N2h4Cltgu9lQxpA6w

[humble junco]

But then you gotta make a jam mechanic so it can perform accurately to life and jam on every shot

[real bronze]

It, surprisingly enough, doesn't do that, and if so, it doesn't do it often.

[devout panther]

Thats a crazy statement

they also inseminate horses

the high point looks like it has a low poly gon count

[humble junco]

It does tho, more often than it doesn't in my experience. I bought one brand new and it jammed on the literal first shot

[real bronze]

Hmm, I don't refute that it doesn't jam, but then again, this is coming from a police instructor when passing by the local gun shop, they advised not using it as a back up weapon for a multitude of reasons.

It either works or not, as they say.

Still, better than nothing.

[real bronze]

At least it isn't those 80's Saturday Night Specials.

[humble junco]

i mean a gun is a gun, but jamming as often as a hi point does is really unacceptable

[real bronze]

Question, what type of model is the Hi-Point? C9 or the Yeet Cannon.

[humble junco]

Hell if I remember, I basically threw it away right after

(Sold it to someone, didn't literally throw it away)

[real bronze]

Could've traded that gun in a for a new one.

Lifetime warranty my good sir.

[humble junco]

Eh, I bought it for a joke and to prove a point

I already had a not shit gun

[real bronze]

At least it's a cheap one.

[real bronze]

Glock, if I have to guess.

Or a Canick.

[humble junco]

Ew no

A glock is not a civilian weapon, I really don't care how good it is, no external safety means civilians don't need it

I have a 1911 somewhere in a safe and an m9

[real bronze]

So like a G2C that I have as my personal concealed carry?

[humble junco]

I'm unfamiliar with that one, at least by that name if that's an abbreviation

[real bronze]

Taurus G2C, in .40 S&W.

Also has a safety as well.

here https://youtu.be/ds0Kzgcsue0?si=UGDSZQoUmGIymgDD

[humble junco]

Ah

That things ok

Too small for my hands tho

[real bronze]

Thanks, love the little thing, fits in my cargo pants pocket with it's spare mag without giving it away.

[humble junco]

-# just please tell me it's not loose in the pocket

[real bronze]

No it's not, has it's proper holster. Fits in nice and snug.

[humble junco]

Nice

[frozen agate]

@wicked parrot for Glock maker did you mainly just change the shape .json from one of maltiezes fire arms mod, like specifically from the Bossi carbine as that's the only one with a multi round ability/ multi reload animation tied to it? And then from there just edit the muzzle reload anim to a bullet from in, and remove/ change the pre-requistes for firing the gun to no longer require the powder flask wadding and bullet/slug?

Also what does the math that you have in the file do/ in charge of?

And what program did you use for player animations lol?

[wicked parrot]

for the code? i wrote the new script myself by looking at maltiez's source code

nothing in jsons determine the functionality of the gun outside of actually telling the gun to use the cs script

math is, without opening up the code again... i believe for the zeroing/accuracy of the gun when shot

in game tool, the developer version of configlib has it iirc

[frozen agate]

Okay, but otherwise it more or less uses the vanilla projectile system? You just wrote a bunch of math to make it more accurate and have the projectile follow a specific ark every time?

And there's a zeroing mechanic for the gun? Or do you mean aiming lol

[frozen agate]

Yeah, I knew .jsons didn't change functionality. I was thinking about how the easiest way to get a fascimily of what I want in a playable state before ironing out the gritty

[wicked parrot]

the section of the code that uses it was, more or less, copied from the muzzle loader script from the firearms mod

[frozen agate]

For which one sorry, aiming or the projectile?

[wicked parrot]

i don't remember, somewhere in shooting i believe

[frozen agate]

Okay

[frozen agate]

And that would just be opened up in Visual studio to look through it?

Just double checking lmao

[wicked parrot]

your IDE of choice

[frozen agate]

Okay

[frozen agate]

This reply is unrelated to the above conversation, but if you want I'm happy to make models for you I find VSMC super easy and intuitive/ fun to use and from what I've read a lot of people don't

[paper arch]

This is absolutely goated but I would seriously consider changing the name on account of glockmaker not really making any sense for an early industrial weapons pack

[humble junco]

Except its going to have a glock

[paper arch]

oh

Probably going to make a fork of this for my own server then, lol

[humble junco]

same, but im adding other stuff if i do

well, when i do

[paper arch]

I'd love a lever action or something

ALways wanted to do like a cowboy RP server

[spring ledge]

I'm tempted to commission the M1897 and a M1873

The revolver*

[weary thunder]

you can commission it from maltiez for 500 bucks

[spring ledge]

I did see that
That's 2, maybe 3 paychecks though

Brainstorming for now
Gotta square up my idea first before jumping his bones

[weary thunder]

but he's the only one i would trust to do it well

[spring ledge]

I'm very much impressed with what he's done so far, his services would be worth it for me

[frozen agate]

The austrian/ German gasser revolver? Nevermind I googled colt .45 single action and a nagant revolver?

[frozen agate]

I've not had the energy to try this because I've had a busy work week and I've been exhausted from drinking too much lmao, but more or less the easiest way to implement a multi shot weapon, would be to go through the fire arms mod, like rip the Bossi carbine from the fire arms mod, put the relating info into a blank template, swap the code word to the one on a new shape .Json put in a different shape .json then go through and edit the other gun information for the Bossi (if the remainder of gun info is in .jsons like how many shots the weapon holds) edit the in-between shot animation to be the hammer pulling back and cylinder swapping via like overhaul lib, edit the reload again via overhaul lib but like have it repeat X ammount of times per cylinder, and then also edit the tp handposition, and the aiming animation ? Like as a hypothetical I've just thought about it for a while not actually tried

[weary thunder]

just getting it to work, maybe

but keep in mind, visual consistency

spent casings, live ammo, empty slots

THAT will be a bitch

[frozen agate]

Are those all hard coded into maltiezes overhaul lib and not in .jsons I'm assuming?

[weary thunder]

hunt showdown is the only game i know that goes all the way

no, firearms simply doesn't have anything like this

[frozen agate]

But swapping the requirements from powder horn, to a bullet, and dropping the other requirements would be easy yeah?

[frozen agate]

I used to play the fuck out of it back in the day, and then everyone got really sweaty and I wasn't ever able to keep up with people being good ; (

[spring ledge]

Trench gun and the Colt single action army

Having put myself through the shadow shit in Battlefield 1 I was very fond of that revolver

[weary thunder]

hate the game but admire its technical side

[frozen agate]

Loosely modeled off of a 56 navy and a gasser

[frozen agate]

The community behind it is lowkey trash lmao

[weary thunder]

audio that actually has travel time, insane visual consistency on every gun

[frozen agate]

Those are the things I really like about it, that other games N E E D to implement

[frozen agate]

I am currently reworking it though so that way the cylinder actually has hollow spaces for the shells and the barrel is hollow as well

I spent an embarrassingly long amount of time yesterday trying to understand why if you divide 360 by 45 you don't get 6

[frozen agate]

But, as you have a much more advanced knowledge of how coding and modding works, my like theory as to how to implement modern guns should in theory work without needing any super drastic modifications or knowledge of code besides editing animations and .jsons

And adding new recipes

[weary thunder]

i have no idea about the game's code

and the more i hear about it the less i want to

[frozen agate]

I wasn't gonna try to do anything code related lol, just use the frame work Maltiez already set up, but in an ideal world if I also knew anything about programming besides basic knowledge I would attempt to do that stuff myself

[weary thunder]

as you can see with glockmaker, it isn't as easy as just ripping the bossi and changing some things around

[frozen agate]

I'd asked him about it and he said he wanted to make his own code and his own maths for it, didn't ask why but I figured it was so it wasn't entirely dependent on someone else

[weary thunder]

nah there's variables to this

as i am currently making a game i have an idea of how easily things can go wrong

you have to account for every possible case

the lack of these various fallbacks likely is why glockmaker is only half-functional currently

and working off a game's existing code jungle makes that even harder

[frozen agate]

I think part of that is due to the reload system and him wanting to be able to reload the magazine at any time

[weary thunder]

for example there are already hacky fixes in place to prevent the gun from breaking entirely

following everything up with the rest animation

theorycrafting code and actually writing it are two completely different beasts

always expect it to be at least 10x harder than you think

the idea of implementing a visually consistent revolver terrifies me

[frozen agate]

I most likely wouldn't actually be writing anything, as I do not know how to code lol.

It'd more or less be a content mod similar to the extra firearms mod that adds a couple of new guns, like double barrel guns, I don't think manny928 does a lot of digging into maltiezes code for it

I was going to rely at least for the revolver the Bossi system that doesn't allow you to reload the weapon untill all shots are fired, for that thinking about either a full cylinder swap, or all 6 cartridges through the loading gate.

[frozen agate]

How so? Like what about it does

[weary thunder]

the visual part

the currently chambered shot has to be visually consistent with what is displayed

what if you have 2 spent rounds, 1 live round and three empty slots

you have to display and track that

have it rotate, and fire only when the next round is life

[frozen agate]

I don't think it's that hard, have cylinderrotateanimA-F assign them per shot, I guess the hardest part would be displaying the round has been fired

[weary thunder]

i can see so many ways this can go wrong

not to mention you need a different animation for placing each round, removing empty ones

and not only do you need to have that, it has to work too

[frozen agate]

And then I was only going to let the reload after all 6 shots are gone.

I would probably need to make 6 different cylinder models that each have 1-6 primers struck and have that split up into 6 different rotating animations around its center.

Oh for reloading I was thinking about taking the full cylinder out for ease of animation, and there is some precedent for stuff like that happening, with the American civil war

[weary thunder]

well that would be lame

but sure i guess you can modify a bossi into a dirty revolver

having an actual immersive revolver would be an absolute headache in my eyes

[frozen agate]

But for the model there is a loading gate, it'd end up turning into 6 segmented animation more or less copied with the cylinder over 60 degrees every time

[frozen agate]

Aye, getting something immersive is an end end end game goal, like year plus maybe

After all it took Maltiez like 6 months to add an aiming animation

[weary thunder]

cause he had to write his own system

the other modded "guns" were just bow reskins

and it's so obvious too

[frozen agate]

That is true, I'm also not tryna discount his work as he wants things to work right and properly and flawlessly

[frozen agate]

I've not used any of the other ones lol

Besides Glock and extra firearms

[weary thunder]

those other mods are the reason he started modding

they were so bad he just had to make a better one

[frozen agate]

LMAO the oroborus of people wanting more and more bang sticks

[weary thunder]

we went from bow reskins to actual functional guns

[frozen agate]

I wish I had the knowledge of C+ to be able to like go into the code and read and understand the differences between them/ and to see what all Maltiez did to improve on the vanilla projectile system

[weary thunder]

c#

i can read code but i don't understand the game's code

so i only have a vague understanding of how it works

[frozen agate]

A vague understanding is better than none lol!

I've legit been thinking about maybe signing up, or buying like an online C# course, but that would be like a year plus and hundreds of dollars of dedication, might be easier and more cost effective to pay Maltiez 🤣

[weary thunder]

there's only one commission slot

once it's taken no more guns

it ought to be a good one

and a revolver seems like a good contender

would also likely make a great template

the current guns being muzzleloaders with the same way of reloading leaves a lot to be implemented if you want to do something different

though detachable mags could also become a headache of their own

if it were up to me i'd make it an ak

[frozen agate]

The only detachable magazine I want from the fire arms mod I'm working on is the revolver, if I decide to do that.

All the weapons I'm planning on adding will be single shot, as that's also kinda what the frame work we currently have is for lol.

[weary thunder]

a detachable cylinder is effectively a mag yes

[frozen agate]

It also leaves it easier if you only want to make manually operated guns, because there is already a loading and a action animation set up in place, and that would need to be repeated X ammount of times per shots you want to have

[weary thunder]

even the way it is it's already kinda janky

the animation jitters and repeats

having that reset for every shot you load into the revolver will be very noticeable

[frozen agate]

Like the cylinder not fully rotating 360 degrees with all 6 shots or?

I don't think I fully understand that

[weary thunder]

no, the animation reset

you want to use bossi as a base, did you see how it reloads?

when you reload one shot it resets to idle, then restarts the animation

causing a jitter

for a gun like that, it's excusable

[humble junco]

Yall know you can make your own animations right?

[weary thunder]

missed the point award

[humble junco]

Not really

[weary thunder]

code is still the same

[frozen agate]

I haven't seen the actual firing/reload animations for the Bossi, I wanted to use it as a frame because to my knowledge, it's the only gun that's multi shot, and has an animation in-between shots

[weary thunder]

it will still jitter

[humble junco]

You can make several animations that are used in various stages of loaded

Therefore no jitter

[weary thunder]

and that requires..

say it

[frozen agate]

Coding, or the gun resetting to neutral position

[humble junco]

Several animations? I don't get what you are trying to say

[frozen agate]

Causing jitter

[weary thunder]

CODE

and that code will need fallbacks for every possible scenario

it's much more of a headache than it looks

[humble junco]

Yeah no shit it would need code, you had never mentioned that before at all so saying I missed the point is wild

[frozen agate]

The entire exchange me and bolotnik were having would be about the feaseability of basically making a .json patch for maltiezes firearms mod to add more from the frame work he has in place because I don't have any coding knowledge

[weary thunder]

maybe read the convo before barging in

the convo is this guy wanting to make a revolver using the bossi's existing implementation

[humble junco]

Eh whatever, I don't have to explain myself to you. I did read it though

[frozen agate]

If I time the jitter right it could be at the end of the hammer being pulled back so it looks more natural, a lot of BP revolvers have VERY heavy hammer pulls usually in the 5lb range

[weary thunder]

no the jitter is you resetting to idle

[frozen agate]

Which, wouldn't that happen after the action animation before aiming?

[weary thunder]

you can't really mask that UNLESS your animation ends with the idle stance

which would be even more awkward

[frozen agate]

Yeah, I get why that would be more awkward, it would pull away control and have like a .25 second delay in between the animation and usability

[weary thunder]

that needs code

[frozen agate]

The animations in .json can't be like sequenced?

Like resting, hammer pull back cylinder rotate then to resting again, and repeating 6 times?

[weary thunder]

why would you pull back the hammer before loading?

[frozen agate]

Half cock

Well I guess you wouldn't need to do that 6 times lmao

[weary thunder]

doing it the other way would both work the same way as bossi and be more natural

but needing to cock before each shot WILL need code

[frozen agate]

Don't you need to cock the second hammer for the Bossi before firing it? Or is it reload like a singular barrel gun, fill touch hole cock hammer and frizen and repeat? Then fire

[weary thunder]

yeah single action will need code

just realized that

[frozen agate]

LMAO but double action won't?!

[weary thunder]

double action is basically a non factor

the trigger press cocks it

[frozen agate]

But if I wanted an animation to play while I press the trigger I would have to code that, or would the hammer fall animation group already implemented be enough?

[weary thunder]

you prime both in the same animation

[frozen agate]

Ahhh okay

I thought the priming was in-between firing not before both

[paper arch]

Is that his real asking price or are you being silly

[frozen agate]

Thank you for talking to me about all this

[frozen agate]

It's real

[weary thunder]

real

[paper arch]

That's fucking insane

Does bro live in the Hollywood hills of California

[weary thunder]

find someone else who can do it then talk shit

[frozen agate]

It's really not, Maltiez codes professionally, he's applying his actual rate for what he'd do for work

[paper arch]

No that's literal robbery lmao

That's like doctor level pay for a block game

[frozen agate]

Home boy has obviously never actually had anything commissioned if you think 500 is a lot

[paper arch]

Give it a few months and someone will just code a cool revolver themselves

[weary thunder]

furries pay more daily

[frozen agate]

Bro what the heck do you think me and bolotnik were talking about for the past hour

[weary thunder]

people have been saying that forever

where is it

[paper arch]

Yes, and they also rip off each other

[frozen agate]

And true guns have been the number 1 most requested feature in VS since it was released in 2016, took till 2024 for a decent implementation of them

And about another 2 for people to build off of that

[paper arch]

I can shop around and commission a drawing of a furry creature for like 20$ or I can find someone who will rob me and ask for 300$

This is known

[frozen agate]

The 20 dollar one will be shit, but the 300 one will be hyper realistic and have all of your kinks and freak nasty desires in it

[weary thunder]

malt doesn't even want to do it

he just put it up to get people off his back

but he WILL do it if someone does it

[paper arch]

Not really no

[frozen agate]

He kinda hates the majority of people that use his mods lmao

[paper arch]

This is more reasonable

[weary thunder]

and he's right

[paper arch]

Anyway this game is steadily getting more popular and the next update will increase that popularity even more so it's just a matter of time really

[weary thunder]

but the price is fair because he will have to maintain that mod, and he is the only one who does this shit

[frozen agate]

I don't disagree, it's a bunch of people clamouring for things he doesn't want and then actively talking shit about him when he doesn't cave to their every whim and fancy

[weary thunder]

economy rules

[paper arch]

I guess if you include maintainer fees that is more reasonable

[frozen agate]

His fire arms mod is already one of singular most popular mod the the DB with like 350k downloads

And currently 4 forks

[paper arch]

yea

[weary thunder]

anyway you figure out how you're gonna get your revolver done without code, i'm going to bed

i would say double action is the only way

(would still need minor code adjustments)

[frozen agate]

Whenever I have the energy to use my PC and actually do it I'll let you know, especially if you're willing to hold my hand through any coding LMAO

Good night Bolotnik lmao

[weary thunder]

(reminder again i do not understand the game's code)

[frozen agate]

a hand to hold in darkness is better than none at all

But yes LMAO I'll most likely end up posting about it in mod development when once I can get something to shoot multiple shots, as that seems like the easiest thing in the whole process

[paper arch]

Yeah probably unfortunately

[real bronze]

❓

[wicked parrot]

ahem

yeah i'm not reading all that, but

revolver "eventually™"

[humble junco]

Basically was a long conversation on the logistics of trying to make a revolver without code, nothing too relevant to you

[wicked parrot]

its definitely... doable, for sure

not in a way that would look great, or be fully immersive, but it would function

[spring ledge]

There's time enough to make it purdy later
Gotta make it exist first

[frozen agate]

I've not worked on it hard because I'm exhausted, and I don't like the model I was currently working with so I was re doing it.

I really didn't want to have to mess with the projectile system, or making a projectile system or coding, as I have no knowledge of it.

But my plan was more or less to rip the bossy carbine from maltiezes mod, initially swap the shape file for it, swap the code word from super imposed to revolver. Change the shot count to 6, and then start messing around with the player animations in overhaul lib. The gun wouldn't be able to reload till all rounds are fired most likely (as I think that's how the Bossi handles it).

I was told if I wanted to have animations after firing the gun I'd need to code that in, but wouldn't that be doable just with animation sequencing

I was also thinking of having the animation be a full cylinder swap, and the recipe for a loaded cylinder would be fat lead bullet powder flask.

[tawny quest]

could the ammo be made abit more powerful

like maybe 20-25 damage

as currently its on par with the firearms wheel lock pistol in damage

which is generally made far more easily

and the musket deals like 38 damage so is the bolt action trade off for more ammo lower ammo damage ?

[spring ledge]

From what I recall, muskets fire a fairly large ball, around .50 and higher calibre

[humble junco]

Yeah this was an intentional decision from the mod maker

One I greatly disagree with

Once this mod itself is in a more stable and usable state I plan on making a fork of it that will go a slightly different route

But for now just change the damage, it's in a json I believe

[humble junco]

Also once I go back to vintage story

[tawny quest]

yeah the bolty currently is not very worth it as its tbh worse then the bossi carbine

[frozen agate]

ammo is cheaper 32 rounds is like half a flask

[humble junco]

That's hardly a good balancer lol

[frozen agate]

it will one shot every drifter type till like the second highest one as well

[tawny quest]

the musket oneshots all drifters lmao

[frozen agate]

always 1 shots wolves, sometimes 2 shots deer which is how irl guns kinda typicallys works.

[frozen agate]

the musket according to maltiez fires a .75 caliber round

[humble junco]

That sounds about right

Realistically most were closer to .58

[frozen agate]

thats is a 19mm projectile

[humble junco]

It's also 3/4 of an inch

Calibers are funny

[tawny quest]

The bolty takes like the entire magazine to kill a single double headed drifter

[humble junco]

Well it's one shot, so I'd imagine it takes the entire "magazine" for anything

[tawny quest]

i meant bolty

[humble junco]

Lol

Yeah no the bolt action should be a steel weapon that does a bit less than the musket, purely on principle alone

[tawny quest]

Yeah

[humble junco]

Which for the record is what I'm going to do

[tawny quest]

even 20 damage is enough

[humble junco]

But that's a few months out cus I'm lazy and wanna make sure my baseline is fully usable

[tawny quest]

its like the bolt action has same power as wheel lock piztol

[humble junco]

I think the musket does 38?

[humble junco]

It does

That was intentional

[tawny quest]

lead slugs do

theres copper and lead

[humble junco]

If the musket does 38 id give bolt 25, still less to make up for magazine, but enough to be actually powerful

[tawny quest]

yeah

[frozen agate]

france and the UK for most of the 17th and 18th used .75 cal muskets gun caliber dropped to the mid .50s and .40 when rifliing became more common place ,rifling has been around almost as long as musketry in europe(the 1480-1520s is when its thought to of surfaced), it was never common place till the cost got reduced signifcantly in the late 1730s+ most militaries didnt start adopting rifles till the 1780s-1820s

[humble junco]

Idk off rip how to change damage, but if it's by ammo type I might do some fun stuff with it

[humble junco]

Well yes, I should probably have clarified most we'd see now are 58

Since a lot of older ones didn't survive

[tawny quest]

it is

[humble junco]

Unless I'm mistaken

[humble junco]

Oh cool

[tawny quest]

The bullets is what gives the guns damage

[humble junco]

If I can figure it out I'll make a smokeless variant too that does more damage

So base will be a little more than it is now and smokeless would be 25

With less smoke obviously

[frozen agate]

if you have the mod making version of overhaul lib you can just get rid of the smoke animation and then save it to the weapon .json frtom overhual lib i beilive

[tawny quest]

the bolty doesn't make any smoke anyway

[humble junco]

Well I still want smoke, because guns still have smoke

But I want much less

[frozen agate]

it does depends on how much your partilce ammount is in the games settings

[humble junco]

It should?

That was one of the complaints I remember, multiple shots make it impossible to aim

[sweet stag]

hah imagine expanding bullets, vs armor piercing bullets... we out here making escape from story

[humble junco]

That is beyond my abilities, but if someone makes it im installing it immediately

[tawny quest]

really easy said then done

[sweet stag]

yeah

[frozen agate]

talk to maltiez about it, might cost 500$ tho

[tawny quest]

Combat overhaul has penetration tiers

[sweet stag]

he takes commissions?

[tawny quest]

yes

for 500$

[frozen agate]

one for crossbows and one for firearms, ever in totality

[humble junco]

Moreso he will take a commission from what I understand

Because people really want more stuff but he doesn't want to add anything more

Someone commission him to write fuckin documentation for his library

That way more people can make guns

[frozen agate]

thats one of the things he offers as a form of payment or atleast used to for the comission

[humble junco]

Uhh

Clarify?

[tawny quest]

wdym ?

[spring ledge]

I've been pondering early grenades, since explosives are always fun

[tawny quest]

from what i know

a mod already added those

[humble junco]

Isn't there a mining charge in game?

Could just make that throwable

[tawny quest]

theres already a mod for grenades

[humble junco]

That adds modern grenades

[sweet stag]

his mods are closed source?

[tawny quest]

it has types of grenades

[humble junco]

Who? Maltiez?

[sweet stag]

yeah

like

[humble junco]

Not that I'm aware of

I don't think you can edit them, but you can view the source code

[sweet stag]

you need to pay to find out how his mods work?

[humble junco]

No

[sweet stag]

ohh

[humble junco]

He just doesn't write documentation

I don't blame him tbf

But it means most people find it harder to approach his library to use it

[sweet stag]

like writing what each component in the code does?

[humble junco]

Moreso how to make use of the tools provided by the library

[sweet stag]

huh

[tawny quest]

mind you maltiez said he offered the dude a fixed up model for this btw

[humble junco]

Basic instructions on how to use them that is

[spring ledge]

The explosive mods there are don't really do it for me
Just a bunch random stuff, perfect for the game I s'pose but I mean more historical bombs/incendiary devices you'd throw at some poor sap

[humble junco]

Yeah, has gorg not implemented it?

[tawny quest]

no

[humble junco]

Historically a mining charge is probably the earliest grenade

Just throw it instead of placing it

Followed by just balls of iron filled with powder

[spring ledge]

[humble junco]

?

[spring ledge]

Early frag grenade

Or a useful scrap bomb

[tawny quest]

those exist as mods

[tawny quest]

what maltiez had to say for now there is nothing specific to crossbows, and also I see no reason to have docs for not library mods

ovh lib is not meant as library for other modders to use, it is just a part of CO separated from it
There was a library with docs long ago, nobody used it, so no reason to have proper library now. They can figure it out if they want.

[humble junco]

overhaul lib (as in short for library) is a library mod

he could have just kept it in his mod files if he didnt want others using it

so... yes it should have documentation

im not upset it doesnt, it doesnt bother me

but it should

[rugged gulch]

m2 browning when

[tawny quest]

overhaul lib is apart of combat overhaul now

its simply seperated from co to not brick older mods

[humble junco]

its always been part of CO

and if it wasnt then its definitely a library

[tawny quest]

It wasn't always apart

atleast before CO

[humble junco]

dont misunderstand, im not upset with maltiez for not writing documentation, its fine, but if its a seperate mod people need its a library, and if its open as it is its going to be used by others. someone at some point should write documentation, and maltiez would be the best person for it

[tawny quest]

but like maltiez said he had library with docs which no one used

[humble junco]

its older than my time on vintage story so i wouldnt know about it

but also not really relevant to my point

i was never upset with maltiez for not doing it, i was making a joke about commisioning him to do it

[tawny quest]

well i played vintage story since the times when we still used server sided Model changing mods for races

[humble junco]

kemono?

[tawny quest]

nah

[humble junco]

i know, was a joke, just like that mod

-# a shame cus i wanted to use it

[tawny quest]

these mods changed the player model for everyone

you also couldn't choose

Kemono was the right step forward

[humble junco]

it was, but it wasnt a good solution

[tawny quest]

but it was really janky

it still is

[humble junco]

maltiez (once again) revolutionized that

bro singlehandedly rewrites the mod game i swear

[tawny quest]

I started playing since the addition of food spoilage

[humble junco]

i only started in like... summer this year maybe? i dont remember

wasnt too long ago

was before player model lib came out tho

i know that

or at the very least, before it was popularly used

[tawny quest]

i believe i started playing since 1.14

[frozen agate]

He used to have a statement that went along the lines of 'if you document overhaul lib libraries or one of my other libraries I'll potentially consider that as a form of payment for a comission' but I think he changed it recently

[tawny quest]

thats weird

[frozen agate]

I started playing like maybe 6 months before Maltiez implemented the firearms mod, because I remember that came out and was insane, and then I stopped for a while shortly before he implemented aiming down sights

[humble junco]

Ah, that makes sense

[mild shuttle]

The damage isn’t based on the weapon, it’s based on the projectile.
The MULTIPLIER is what the weapon effects

So, if you want to bullet to go from 16 to 20, (which wouldn’t even do a whole lot anyway?)
Polar bears have 66hp, so you go from 5 shot-ing a polar bear (or 4 shot and 1 stab from pretty much any weapon in the game), to 4 shots.

Your 5 round weapon needs 1 less round to kill one of if not the strongest non boss animal in vanilla VS.

Idk about anyone else…but I find it rewarding to land all 5 shots on a polar bear…the reward is killing it faster than any weapon on its own…only slower than stacking…

[wicked parrot]

if people want their overpowered guns they are by all means allowed to config the damage. i'll even add configs in the next update

default settings will remain geared towards game balance rather than perfect realism, however

and, should the person bringing up "it only does the damage of a wheellock pistol" be reading this... yes, actually, black powder and ball firearms were often more damaging than modern guns and ammunition. its just that modern pierces better

[frozen agate]

Black powder munitions crushed and tore, they were slow and lumbering, we never got projectiles faster than 630m/s from the use of black powder weapons and the ONLY people to change that were the British by using specially compressed and extruded black powder pellets till cordite was able to be synthesized on any meaningful quantity until 1889.

Most black powder weapons including bolt action rifles of the day, such as the GewherM1871 (11.5 mm wide projectile) typically used .40 and above sized projectile. The Portuguese kropatsech was an 11mm wide round, the Japanese murata rifle used an 11mm round as well, all of them flew at under 450m/s the British Martini Henri had a muzzle velocity about 440m/s

Modern munitions typically have a muzzle velocity around 750 m/s to 1500 m/s in cases like 5.45 nato, or 6.8x51 furry which can be between 900-1500 depending on the load shot through it

[tawny quest]

so the only benefit of this is more ammo ?

[weary thunder]

but really, the reason is he wanted a modern gun to be "balanced"

when that kinda removes the point

guns themselves are already fundamentally overpowered, so just keep playing into that

not a competitive game

i doubled the damage in my json

[tawny quest]

i wouldn't be suprised if his bolt action does nothing to end game armor ie steel plate

[mild shuttle]

Uh…you are forgetting that the COUNTER to plate armour…is blunt damage…

Yea, getting hit by a lead shot might not puncture into your body, but depending on the design, your sure as hell got broken ribs or a skull that’s split in half.

[weary thunder]

musket doesn't either

co isn't balanced for pvp

[frozen agate]

I thought with full plate and gambeson musket damage drops to like 25

[weary thunder]

it was like 6 damage

[frozen agate]

I got confused with this meant lmao I thought you were saying plate armor doesn't do anything to stop it rip me my reading compression is terrible

[tawny quest]

more so the guns aren't

[weary thunder]

no, co as a whole

[tawny quest]

from what i saw co isn't meant for pvp

as its not made with pvp in mind

[weary thunder]

it has pvp functionality, not pvp balance

pvp hit detection for example is location based, not rng

[humble junco]

The entire game isn't made with pvp in mind, the devs actively changed the sword model to the ugly falx because "you aren't killing people" or something like that

CO makes it possible tho

On that note, when I make my fork i may make an armor piercing ammo for that purpose

[weary thunder]

how are you gonna do that

you would very likely have to modify co at the core to be able to do that

[wicked parrot]

damage tier is stored in the gun, not the ammo

[weary thunder]

nah you can give bullets additional tier

it's just that there is no such thing as armor penetration

the "armor piercing" on maces is just additional tiers against players

not actual armor penetration

[humble junco]

Yeah I'm not gonna make real armor penetration, especially since I do not care about pvp in the slightest

Just give the AP ammo higher damage tier against players

If I can figure it out

[lofty parrot]

About libraries and docs:

• first of all, there is a statement about docs for config lib as a way to pay for commission of a firearm, it was always about config lib, never about overhaul lib. Also it is not about in-code docs, it is about API docs.
• then, overhaul lib is a library indeed, it is a library mod for my projects based on it, though it does not mean it has to be documented in a way for others to understand. Library does not mean that it is meant to be used by everyone, it just means that it is a collection of code and assets used by other mods. For me I dont need to doc my code, cause it is written in a highly readable way (for me at least), or at least I try to do it this way.
• There was FSM lib and Animation Manager lib, they were documented and meant to be used by others. A lot of effort and time was put into docs and proper API, but it all was for nothing, I failed at this, though it was a learning experience. Later I made Config lib and with a lot of friction it made its way into modding scene. And then I made PML that practically exploded, compared to config lib.
• In contrast: there is zero effort put into ovh lib to make usable by others, it is made in way to be the easiest used by me. May be if I see enough demand for animations, player controls and other aspects of the lib, I will make proper libraries for this. Until recently, there were no signs of ppl that can utilize such functionality to level of mods I made with it.

[lofty parrot]

Attack tier does describe how well an attack penetrate armor, so additional tier is the armor penetration, and armor piercing is specifically about player armor penetration. Not sure what else do you need.

[weary thunder]

obviously, but say if someone wants musket to do full damage through armor, can't directly do that

(also doesn't attack tier still cap at 9 even with additive tiers?)

[lofty parrot]

At 12 now

You can extend it with a json patch though

[lofty parrot]

There is no support for projectiles yet, you could'v just requested this.

Sorry for intrusion though, I will probably leave this thread after this discussion for you to have a space to talk free of me.

Btw, I do considering implementing some single shot and magazine black powder rifles that use metallic cartridges for Rubix next playthrough, but not sure I will have time for this.

[weary thunder]

rubix?

[lofty parrot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teihaBRttcA

#859992153312723024 message

[weary thunder]

also a magazine gun would make a fantastic template for future guns

detachable ones would be extra work from there, but the ak would be much closer..

[lofty parrot]

Repeating crossbow is a magazine bolt action rifle, btw

[weary thunder]

huh what the hell why didn't i think of that

@frozen agate

lmao

you can use the repeater as a base

[lofty parrot]

it does not have ads though

but you can figure something out

[frozen agate]

I had been thinking of this lowkey, I thought against it because of the lack of ads

But I'm certain I could copy the animation, or reset it using overhaul lib dev mode

[weary thunder]

why not do it quake style first

then proper style later

would also give it some "uniqueness"

[frozen agate]

That was original goal as well, I'll actually be able to work on trying for a gun today as well as I have today off and I don't feel tired, but I did almost cut the pad of my middle finger off yesterday lol

[weary thunder]

well you didn't

so get to it

i'm going to bed

[frozen agate]

LMAO I just woke up I need coffee

[frozen agate]

Good night lol

[weary thunder]

that action animation looks like firearms when the animations were stop motion

the cylinder drop animation looks good, but should be faster

[frozen agate]

what part should be faster?

[weary thunder]

just the whole thing

it's floaty this slow

[frozen agate]

it does look very snappy, i am thinking about adding more frames for the hammer pull back, but i made all 6 shot shot animations one per cylinder

[frozen agate]

fair

[real bronze]

Question, but is it suppose to be a swing out cylinder like most revolver?

Seams a bit prudent, other then that, having multiple cylinders are usually in the realm of caplock revolvers.

Other then that, I thought the revolver was going to be a gate loaded revolver, looks similar to a Reich's Revolver if you ask me.

: https://share.google/images/gwRkOmImuc98Xi6N4

[tawny quest]

True revolvers were always caplocks

flintlock revolvers existed but as prototypes

[real bronze]

Back then, yes, but even in the 1850s, there where cartridge based revolvers in the form of the pinfire revolvers

: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefaucheux_M1858

[real bronze]

Yes, even matchlock revolvers as well, but even then, I do have to wonder what glockmaker is using as a model for his revolver.

[tawny quest]

personally don't expect any of his guns to be powerful

[real bronze]

They are, just depends on the target.

[tawny quest]

the revolver will probably be weaker then a vanilla bow

[real bronze]

... bruh, question, have you ever fired a .38 Special Revolver?

[tawny quest]

no

but this is purely due to the bolt action having same damage as the wheel lock pistol

[weary thunder]

what

vanilla bows already do fucking nothing

do you want it to compete with rocks?

[real bronze]

More than capable enough to put down a boar if you know where to place the shot.

[weary thunder]

that's an attempt to balance a gun that doesn't belong to begin with

[real bronze]

I think glockmaker needs to tweek it for the folks in the back.

[weary thunder]

with default values, i would not use that boltie at all

with doubled damage, it feels alright

it's just that guns are guns

this is more like a post cod gaming perception of a gun

[real bronze]

I mean, compare it to a .75 to .69 cal musket ball, a .303 sized cartridge will go fast, but won't cause much damage like the musket ball.

[weary thunder]

in an immersive sandbox game you ought to actually feel a gun's strength

[weary thunder]

with doubled damage this thing is still weaker than a carbine

but it's no longer a peashooter

bossi and the pistol ARE peashooters, a proper modern gun isn't to compare to those

[real bronze]

And it's blackpowder, so I think it's preferable that the bolt action should be somewhere above a matchlock by 40 damage, at least.

[weary thunder]

i want to have blackpowder and smokeless rounds

because a downside of this gun currently IS that followup shots are basically blind

adding smokeless rounds as an option (though not sure how you would make smokeless powder) would be a great dynamic

[real bronze]

I believe they'll will copy that of the poudre B formula that the French made.

[plucky glade]

HNO3 and pyroxilin first

mercury fulminate for percussion caps

[wicked parrot]

as i've said, feel free to modify the gun's damage as you like, but my default settings will remain mostly in favor of game balance

[weary thunder]

game balance was thrown out the window when guns were implemented

[real bronze]

Word more truer has been spoken.

[real bronze]

Also, is the weapons damage in the mod files or in the game mod adjustment settings?

[weary thunder]

unless you want it to be a separate entity from firearms

[weary thunder]

it's in the jsons

easy to edit

[real bronze]

Thanks

[wicked parrot]

setting to setting, sure. gun strong because gun strong isn't particularly a design philosophy i want to follow. all weapons are... well, weapons

[frozen agate]

It more or less is a cap revolver, mainly because that was the easiest way I could think of with animating a reload

[frozen agate]

It's like a mixture between the reichs revolver and a 46 walker

[real bronze]

Oh, maybe a Gasser 1870 perhaps, as well?

[real bronze]

Reminds me of my 1851 colt navy and 1858 remington I have.

[real bronze]

Though I have a question. Is it possible to do a simple caplock revolver reload like this?

: https://youtube.com/shorts/ki9IP7QaAPE?si=NCP1sPFJ2q6gff2k

[frozen agate]

It is possible but it's a lot of work lol. I was gonna be lame and have it be cylinder swaps, and what you do is swap emptied cylinders with loaded ones. And the loaded cylinder would be through a crafting grid

[real bronze]

Or, if you want to get more technical, you can explain by having multiple cylinders holding individually loaded cartridges like this gun.

But after firing you have to take part the cylinder, eject the cartridges, and replace them with new ones like this revolver

:https://youtube.com/shorts/y-WQAItMntc?si=4Acr6mihFLMlaL5y

[real bronze]

👆

[frozen agate]

I knew I wasn't being crazy when I remembered there was a way to reload the old colts without taking the barrel wedge out/ without dropping rounds in with the loading lever

[real bronze]

Glad to be of help then.

[frozen agate]

I've read American civil war stories of people doing full cylinder swaps with their colts or whatever revolver they had access to, and they'd carry around a pouch with like 5-10 cylinders all loaded with cap and ball covered in fat , nipples capped

That was where that reload idea came from lol

[real bronze]

Hey, at least this can be used for a civil war era rp.

[frozen agate]

Yeah true I guess lol, it's almost 20 years from one of the design influences lol.

It's so weird to think about the guns that were available in the civil war lol, like if I remember right the British were designing the Martini Henri during the American civil war LMAO, the Snider Enfield was adopted during the American civil war, and the Springfield 1861 is almost an exact copy of it lmao

The rolling block was also in development during the American civil war lol

[real bronze]

True, also, if your going to individually reload each cylinder like a caplock revolver, use this: https://youtu.be/oU4vxBrd278?si=jav_Yj6PwD4r2_3Y

[frozen agate]

Something like that will probably be added once I can get the model to show up in game and shoot, I spent all of yesterday remaking and animating that bad boy

[real bronze]

Also make the device portable and easy to make so people won't be too worked up about it.

[frozen agate]

If I do implement it it would be the same one for pushing down rifle bullets into their casing, nonmobile, you just gotta make enough rounds, or bring a flint lock and flask of powder as back up.

But for a while ^ because that sounds like it would need coding, it will just be crafting grid recipe, fat linen patch powder flask 6 bullet 1 cylinder

[real bronze]

Don't add fat or fat linen, makes it quite hard for others to reload the gun in question, but caps, lead bullet, and powder will do nicely, and do make a tight fit to make it waterproof enough.

Also, if your wondering about rifle ammo reloading kit, I present to you my mobile .303 british reloading kit that I have in my house:

This one is both pistol and rifle reloader kit.

https://youtu.be/wDZHx7zpYxE?si=ozm6aKIjam2SZ-1a

I only have the rifle reloader, not the pistol one.

[frozen agate]

I was thinking of the old school rifle loading presses that you have bolted into the side of your gun table

Like the other guy had for his BP revolver

[real bronze]

Well then, the mobile one isn't accurate, and slow to use, maybe a mechanic in which the kit makes it a bit less useful, but workable and ready for immediate use, but the reloading bench is both accurate and fast to use, but is only in one place or the other, a settlement based reloading bench.

[mild shuttle]

O my…pre loaded cylinders in VS, for speed loading…refilled back at base at a specialty table?

I love it

[devout panther]

I know it’s a bit rude to ask when an update is going to come out but will any of the guns be added within this year?

[tawny quest]

maybe

[wicked parrot]

mod development is a little on the backburner right now, but should i get the motivation and time to work on it again pump action shotgun shouldn't take long

[frozen agate]

dont be impressed this is a collabortive effort between me and another person that has taken days, however slowly but sure \ly we do be doin' some cooking

[wicked parrot]

that is some wild drift man lmao

[frozen agate]

im trying to fix the aim drift right now by looking through your aim animation and maltiezes, i also think it has the wrong aim type put into it

[weary thunder]

that's not sway

that's just the aiming type

[grave matrix]

i want to know if there are any plans for a lever action rifle or single shots any time later i do know that this would be much later but i do want there to be some things for something like a cowboy rp

[weary thunder]

there was a guy who made a lever rifle model but we haven't seen any gameplay

[plucky epoch]

Me?

[weary thunder]

nah

[plucky epoch]

I thought so

[open bluff]

are you the one who is making the Glockmaker mod

of so let me know when we can talk

[weary thunder]

he's making a revolver (which will likely soon be obsolete..), glockmaker dev is op

[real bronze]

Not really, I mean I do carry a revolver for conceal carry.

[frozen agate]

What you want?

[wicked parrot]

that would be me

i am usually around to answer questions or discuss things, what did you want to talk about?

[grave matrix]

something that could be cool would be a Pieper carbine

[humble junco]

Revolver rifle Is coming to the main mod

[wicked parrot]

i never said revolving rifle, just revolver. but the code will be the same and i can add it if there is a desire for it

[humble junco]

the main firearm mod, not this mod

maltiez is making it right now

[weary thunder]

it will be separate

[humble junco]

Will it? I thought the commission was to add it to firearms

[weary thunder]

well the plan was to make it a separate addon

[humble junco]

Well either way it's being made already

[rugged gulch]

Would it be able to hold different ammo types in a single magazine?

I'm surprised no one yet implemented magazines and gun attachments, while I did it in one day almost 4 years ago

I also did magazine rendering, with rounds rendering inside

Also shell ejection on every round shot

I implemented all of this but gave up when couldn't make guns fire bullets as actual entities and couldn't implement burst and full auto. Also animations

[frozen agate]

Honestly probably not, that is something that I would want to do, but it also sounds like something that would require knowledge of coding, and I don't have any lol, me and someone else were struggling to implement a different bolt action rifle based on what is in Glock maker and it works kinda lmao, reload animations need to be remade so when animation ends it reverses, instead of plays the animation enfull on a loop once more, and we were having issues with the gun hooking into config lib, and I couldn't figure out why it wasn't doing that

[frozen agate]

Gut attachments probably wouldn't be that hard, it'd be another shape .json and another item .json more or less, but that's like something me and my friend will get to when I cross that bridge ya know, we want stuff that works and to understand why it works/doesn't

[rugged gulch]

I was only starting at that time

[frozen agate]

That's fair, and look at you now, you have spinning d12

[rugged gulch]

I made first tabletop games version 3 years ago

[frozen agate]

That's fair, I just gotta keep chugging along with it lol. I know for the other rifle I was working on I could ask Maltiez why it's not working and get it to change the aim type almost immediately but I don't wanna annoy him and have him be like 'did you read the documentation' when I did and I understood it like a 4 year old LMAO

[rugged gulch]

My first prototype

So I did it after tabletop games

[frozen agate]

You only spent a day on it?

[rugged gulch]

A few days at least

But I coded it very fast, yes

[frozen agate]

These are actually really cool, how come you never finished em? Especially now that we have guns as mods that do render the bullets as entities, you just won't see em they travel too fast

[frozen agate]

Also I like the backwards bullets those are funny lol

[frozen agate]

This is the only implementation of a gun me and my friend have that works LMAO

I do want to work on it more, but I'm taking a break to play battlefield 6

I am going to rework that rifle model to be more in line with the revolver as well

[rugged gulch]

I made that when only one gun mod existed

[frozen agate]

Oh the og one

I don't remember what it's called but I know of it

[rugged gulch]

Ranged Weapons

It added guns that were based on bow class

[frozen agate]

I originally started playing VS about 2 months before Maltiez added his fire arms mod, and then stopped for about a year right before he implemented aiming

[weary thunder]

and they were just reskinned bows

[frozen agate]

Yeah Maltiez has talked on how he didn't like the implementation and wanted to do better

[rugged gulch]

Maltiez started modding 2 years after I started modding

[rugged gulch]

I tried to use his first FSM lib when it was released, but it was completely unsuitable for my advanced ideas

At that time I used attributes everywhere already

[weary thunder]

are you an alien

[rugged gulch]

His lib didn't support my attributes system

[rugged gulch]

Are you?

[frozen agate]

Doesn't he have an attribute class library system now?

[weary thunder]

find out next time

[frozen agate]

On dragon ball Z

[weary thunder]

on Bog Bouillon

[rugged gulch]

What

[frozen agate]

Wtf is that

[rugged gulch]

I made that library

[frozen agate]

Little bits of drod bog to put into your soup???

[weary thunder]

swampman's creation

[rugged gulch]

I wrote 99% of the code for it

[weary thunder]

(it's pear brandy)

[frozen agate]

Pear brandy with absinthe

Is so good

[frozen agate]

Rip wasn't trying to give away your valor Dana

[weary thunder]

here's the place

five boilers

[rugged gulch]

I believe it should be much easier to implement gun attachments with my library now

[weary thunder]

yearly production of like 50l every harvest

[rugged gulch]

Especially gun skins

[frozen agate]

I cook for a living, and on one of the deserts I'm make now there's a caramel apple like 'sauce' that has pear brandy in it, it's very good

[weary thunder]

i have never had brandy and only recently tried cider

shit's incredible

[frozen agate]

Honestly the one that would be the most goated would be a way to split up the screen rendering into two cameras for scopes. One set kinda before the eye piece, and the other at the zoom point you want it (like 6x or whatever)

[rugged gulch]

I never drunk alcohol in my life

[frozen agate]

Mormon?

(I kid)

[weary thunder]

i have never BEEN drunk

[rugged gulch]

what is this

[frozen agate]

A type of religious person in the US, they're native to Utah, they can't have caffeine or alcohol

[weary thunder]

no tea..

[rugged gulch]

I'm from Ukraine

and i'm atheist

I don't drink caffeine either

[frozen agate]

I was joking lol about the Mormon thing lol

[frozen agate]

Same here

[weary thunder]

BUT TEA!

[frozen agate]

Makes you jittery?

[rugged gulch]

all caffeine I get is from unforgiving dark chocolate

[weary thunder]

you can't call yourself a slav

you gotta have tea

[rugged gulch]

Has no effect on me

[frozen agate]

Tea is kinda mid

[rugged gulch]

Literally none

[frozen agate]

Oh do you have ADHD?

[rugged gulch]

I don't know, maybe

[frozen agate]

That's common with caffeine

[weary thunder]

if it has no effect on you that means you have a tolerance

[frozen agate]

/it'll calm you

[frozen agate]

If you have ADHD/ADD it has a paradoxical affect compared to regular people

[weary thunder]

my tolerance is obtained from two decades of daily tea

2-3 times a day

[frozen agate]

I drink 20 oz of coffee a day and have since I was 14 am 25

Oh shit

Like 900ml

[rugged gulch]

I drunk coffee only a few times

in my entire life

[weary thunder]

you really are an alien

i was kidding around but now i'm suspicious

[rugged gulch]

I tried the strongest ones

For the bitter taste

[frozen agate]

Was it too bitter?

[weary thunder]

well being immune to caffeine is good

[rugged gulch]

I already was used to dark chocolate, so no

[weary thunder]

you're safer from the feds

[frozen agate]

Do you mean the American feds? LMAO

[weary thunder]

yes

[frozen agate]

I would've figured you meant like the federal police of your nation that threw me for a second lol

[rugged gulch]

We have SBU

they are really scary

[frozen agate]

Rn the perception of the federal police in America is that they are scary, but I think most people my age kinda view them as 'oh what are you going to do Mr.Fed disappear me to a black site/ deport me?? get the fuck out here looser' in like a fed up with their shit way? It's hard to explain lmao

[weary thunder]

this

[frozen agate]

Yes but while throwing a sandwich (at the fed)

[wicked parrot]

just gonna put this out here, small update coming in the next few days or so

fixed a bug regarding picking up full cased bullets when you miss, fixed a crash when you spam inputs, and (maybe if i can get the item to load in properly) ceramic mold for bullet casings

[plucky epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-holy-grail-god-be-praised-praise-god-gif-1535430525424108261

[wicked parrot]

code should roughly remain the same in function, but is also starting to be adapted to fit shotguns as well as different loading and actions. if any issues arise of it in the new version let me know

[frozen agate]

Btw do you want the shape .json for the revolver I made/ the textures I made for it I figured I'm not going to implement it or work on it for a while, I've caught the battlefield 6 bug and don't see myself putting it down for a while

[wicked parrot]

if you drop them here i can look at it, revolver is probably going to be a later addition though, still thinking over how i'm going to make it work

[frozen agate]

It's already animated in full for a full cylinder swap, so probably reload would be flask+bullet+spare cylinder as easiest thing and ammo be 'loaded cylinder' and amount of shots set to 6 I think

[wicked parrot]

i see

i'll take a look

[frozen agate]

Lemme know if this works I'm sending it via my phone

[wicked parrot]

i already have an idea for how it will function though, mainly to make it more applicable to other firearms

[frozen agate]

If you rip the revolver loading stuff from Maltiez you can probably convert it to like colt 1851 style reload where it's not a cylinder swap.

Or do you want something where the cylinder fully swings out, or like a loading gate style thing?

Here's also the extra rifle stuff I was working on

Bolt actiontwo I believe is item type

Bolt action2 (1) I think is animation, and bolt action 2 I think is .shape json (can't check still on my phone lmao)

Animations are broken because I had them set to end instead of go back to origin on end

But it's also mainly your animation stuff LMAO

[wicked parrot]

new version is out and ready

also added some reload/cycle sounds, they aren't the best, but they work

[spring ledge]

Plenty of time later to make it purdy
Y'alls work is massively appreciated

[violet canyon]

Glad to see more fun things!!!

[agile hatch]

Glockinator

https://tenor.com/view/glockinator-burst-fire-gif-10139191522598938132

[plucky epoch]

Today I thought "I am going to add the animations to my mod" to be hit out of the blue with: item class blah blah has been blah blah blah blah, will ignore... 🙂 Pardon?

[wicked parrot]

did you register the item class?

[plucky epoch]

Yes

And it was working before

[wicked parrot]

hmm, strange

i remember getting that error and that was the issue

[plucky epoch]

Three item classes now count as unregistered

[wicked parrot]

have you changed anything?

[plucky epoch]

I just added three JSON patches for the seraph animation

Anyways, I have to clock in now.

[agile hatch]

Did you register the firearm

[spring ledge]

[elfin panther]

Don’t be silly

[elfin panther]

Hey gorg, you should consider the trapdoor rifles

[wicked parrot]

might be interesting, i could potentially work on it and set it in with the lever action in the bronze age as a slower but more damaging option

[devout panther]

yes

[devout panther]

hey if you are making a double barrel shotgun could you add the ability to gild the double barrel with gold and make it into a parker invincible shotgun

[devout panther]

its a shotgun set made during the great depression and it so beautiful

[plucky epoch]

Shotgun slam fire when??

[spring ledge]

If shotguns are done up I just hope they'll actually be deadly and not expensive confetti cannons

[elfin panther]

Shotgun uses confetti rounds now

https://tenor.com/view/12gauge-confetti-round-gif-26406626

[wicked parrot]

gotta collect all the colors of dye just to make the confetti for the shells

[spring ledge]

Scott player model when

[plucky epoch]

I have a .36 I put simple sights, hits accurately across with ease on open field, and slugs are the bane of anything in view. Shotguns are beasts, hope they were credited enough.

[wicked parrot]

current plan for shotgun damage is
pellet shells: 4 x 10
slug shells: 32

all shotguns likely will have just a 1x multiplier, main difference being rate of fire

[spring ledge]

Thoughts on spread?

[wicked parrot]

probably similar to the blunderbuss/carbine depending on ammo used

shotguns are (usually) smoothbore, so it's a good enough baseline

pellet shells for higher base damage, and slugs for higher attack tier and range is the idea

[spring ledge]

Very nice~

[elfin panther]

I think it should depend on barrel length

Shorter the barrel wider the spread, like irl

A sawn off DB would have more spread than a full length

[elfin panther]

And shotguns are always smoothbore

Unless you plan to only use slugs for it

[wicked parrot]

there are a handful that are rifled

probably not in glockmaker, but they do exist

[elfin panther]

Yeah

I might try and model a gun or smth

Bit bored atm

[agile hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/paul-harrel-run-and-gun-gif-26127354

[plucky epoch]

Very therapeutic.

[upper moss]

Jonas Glock (its a switch)

I have been WAITING for someone with more braincells than I, to make something like this

I want to murder bowtorns with purpose and spite

[wicked parrot]

i do have plans for a gun made from jonas parts and fueled by temporal gears, actually

[upper moss]

I tried making a victorian era gun pack for minecraft once

it hit me like a high velocity brick wall that I do not understand code, even for mods, at all

[wicked parrot]

it really be like that sometimes

sometimes with code you just gotta pretend you know what you're doing until you actually do

[upper moss]

I ended up making a Kar 88 and a revolver I forget

probably an 1851 colt cus I was having an obsession at the time

I think that corrupted file was the only picture I had of the full thing

FOUND THEM

wasnt perfect, I did this in like jan 2023 or something and it was my first blockbench model

but yeah the current rifle looks amazing

I cant wait for the other stuff to start coming outt

I was impressed by the actual bolt action functionality

[real bronze]

Oh, so it's a Gewehr 88 comission rifle.

[upper moss]

Karabiner 1888 not the Kommissiongewehr

[real bronze]

Oh, makes sense.

[upper moss]

spoon on the bolt instead of ball

which is why its so flat

I animated the firing pin and trigger reset too if you pay attention to the cycle

was quite proud of that at the time

[plucky epoch]

Pistol Lorenzonis

[tawny quest]

are you actually working on a repeater mod

[plucky epoch]

Yes. Struggling, but yes.

[devout panther]

anyone wanna vc?

[plucky epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-breaking-bad-better-call-saul-walter-walt-uh-gif-11738409521439998250

[agile hatch]

Can u make a Glock switch

[plucky epoch]

It was a typo in the modsystem

While I couldn't find it, I added 20 new tuning cylinders to my mod 🙂

[wicked parrot]

development is unfortunately stalled until next year, my computer is in for repairs

[umbral pumice]

will there be lever-action rifles in this mod?

whenever your computer is repaired

[elfin panther]

Dang guys we gotta wait an entire year 😔

[wicked parrot]

the current plan is to slot them into the bronze age

though with the rifle drill being an iron age item, they will either be smoothbore or i'll have to find another workaround. so either not "rifles", but functionally similar, or yeah i remap the tools

the idea is to get them out at the same time as the steel age pump action shotgun to round out the stages of progression while i work on the guns that require different code

[lapis pier]

maybe you could make them be available as both smoothbore and rifled depending on the time of progression?

honestly a rather awkward way of doing it, but it'd work out I'd say, at least in regards to having the rifle spirit

[spring ledge]

Would it be possible to implement a way to engrave the rifling manually?

[wicked parrot]

theoretically, absolutely

but i would need to figure out some in-world crafting code to make it work

its not high on the priority list, but it would be pretty cool

[wicked parrot]

it could work, putting an iron version somewhere early iron age or so. though the only real benefits would be increased accuracy

[frozen agate]

Could also have the benefit of rifling be a flat 20% increase to damage

[upper moss]

you could make pre-iron age rifling a lot more difficult, expensive or time consuming like it was irl since you had to manually drill the barrel

rifling appears in german texts in the 15th century by individuals Gaspard Kollner and Augustus Kotter

obviously a lever action isnt a 15th century gun

but

in terms of pre-iron rifling

[real bronze]

Think they make a rifled wheellock rifle barrel.

[lapis pier]

15th century? whats that got to do with iron and not iron?

maybe im missing the point here....

[wicked parrot]

i mean... that is what is implied if you look at the in game model of the rifling drill

[wicked parrot]

i just, as said, have not yet done any unique in world crafting for the mod, and it's not a high priority for me

[elfin panther]

If you were to add the rifling thing I’d just make it one of those small tools and make it be a crafting recipe…

Manually doing it in the world would be a later dev thing I’d assume

[wicked parrot]

that is how it already works

arquebus barrel + animal fat + rifling drill = rifle barrel

[craggy wolf]

ah, glockmaker, home of the world's most perfect vintagestory mod thumbnail

seriously I ADORE this mod's thumbnail, its like, s tier reaction image

[wicked parrot]

i'm glad my thumbnail is so greatly appreciated lmao

[rotund relic]

Any update on this? I'd love to help test and improve the mod, I really like it but it's obviously suffering a bit from issues like controls.

[wicked parrot]

well, as for controls, i am definitely NOT going to be poking around in the revolver arquebus mod's code to steal some of the inputs (i actually am)

[upper moss]

I tried using the rifle against a bear and I will say, do not reccomend trying to panic load

I fumbled that thing more than a horror movie character

[rotund relic]

A bayonet would be cool too

If you need any ideas, I think having button combinations would be a safe way to implement many of the needed controls.

[burnt hemlock]

Wouldn't really make much sense other than having it to be better accuracy, unless you'd want to cram some eldritch temporal gears into the frame to magically increase damage versus Cursed ones like Drifter enemy types.

Why not instead use different kinds bullets to increase the damage output? The Bow and Arrow already uses different arrowheads for specific uses like the bodkin arrow. Not in the game but you get my meaning

[frozen agate]

It does make sense, because, if you look at reports of gun shot wounds from when rifling started to make it's way into military weapon procurement doctors and surgeons hated the new rifles because they would cause significantly more damage from ripping and spinning through the body, then just blunt force puncturing it.

An example, during the napleonic wars, rifled muskets were given out to marksmen and small squares, whenever they'd get 'captured' they'd usually just immediately get executed because both sides thought the use of rifles and the damage they did were ghastly, and the fact that specifically being able to target individuals from longer ranges was also seen as like 'unhonorable'

Like a good example is if you shoot a water melon with an unrifled gun you just get a hole, but if you shoot a watermelon with a rifled gun half the water melon goes out of the hole with it

The rifles, also maintained their muzzle velocity for much longer, so if you had 2 guns and were shooting at a target like 100m away the muzzle energy of the musket would pretty much entirely dissipate, it would still be lethal, but that shot would get lodged into your body probably stopping an inch or 2 into muscle , a rifled shot would still have the energy to spin and tear and rip right through you

Don't believe me go look at doctors records from about the 1830s-1850s

[burnt hemlock]

No no it's alright, I Believe you, sorry. I guess didn't really consider all the facts about the physics of what a bullet does when it's spinning, that does make more sense now that I think about it.

[frozen agate]

I do also know it's the Minnie ball that helped to facilitate that damage, but a lot of the ammunition used was still round ball for rifles muskets/muzzle loaders, and even for some breach loaders well into the 1870s

[frozen agate]

Don't be sorry, I don't mind educating

[burnt hemlock]

I do still think different bullet types would be a nice addition though, like Hollow point.

Or Nitro Express for Bears

[rotund relic]

Well in this case, you're packing the powder into a bullet which would increase pressures.

The combination of better pressure, better accuracy, rifling (which then has increased speed and reduced drag, more than likely)

That's justification enough for a damage increase, imo.

[plucky epoch]

Fourty shots worth

[tawny quest]

Interesting u got the gun model in game

[jagged ore]

well. the mod does function

but it definitely is a bit clunky

i found that after the default "place gun on shoulder" animation it no longer becomes possible to interact with the gun until using LMB to work the bolt

this led to me repeatedly ejecting the first round of every loaded magazine before i could properly fire

the concept and modelling is nice but in terms of controls it feels like im just mashing buttons until something happens

[wicked parrot]

i'll look into it, that shouldn't be the case and i thought i fixed it

[wicked parrot]

though, to be clear (regardless of if it makes sense or not), the gun must have the bolt cycled if you're reloading from empty. yeah i know it shouldn't work that way and a fix is being worked on for that

just trying to make sure i know where you're running into the issue

[jagged ore]

i understand but this is when I've already loaded the gun to full

[wicked parrot]

so to be clear, you load the gun to full, and are unable to cycle the bolt?

[jagged ore]

hold on, let me try and get some video

[dark cedar]

It could also be your mod mix, because i have been able to get it fully working after i reinstalled it (I had an older version that was still working)

[jagged ore]

@wicked parrot

not sure what causes the odd animation bugging

in general its just kind of weird and inconsistent

[wicked parrot]

what's your mod list?

[jagged ore]

immense

uhh i can get it if you really need it but I'm running combat overhaul

alongside firearms ofc and extra firearms

i got player model lib and lupines race

[wicked parrot]

icic

can definitely see that the aiming animations aren't lining up, but i don't think that would cause control issues

one thing i will say is try taking the controls a bit slower. as the dev and knowing exactly how the thing is supposed to function might give me some bias on thinking the controls are simple, so let me see if i can explain it better

tap CTRL/SPRINT to open the gun

hold RMB to load the gun until you cannot load anymore

tap LMB to cycle the bolt back

tap LMB again to cycle the bolt forwards to chamber a round

hold RMB to aim the gun once chambered; tap LMB to fire the gun

repeat 3 - 5 until magazine is empty

it may come from trying to aim while the bolt is pulled back

that's my best theory based on the video you sent, though i can't really test it as of right now

[jagged ore]

i see

I'll give it another shot soon

[grizzled agate]

also something i gotta say about how you cycle the bolt after reloading the rifle needing to be done twice if its not a technical difficulty with coding it it really wouldn't work like that and only bolt action rifle i know that works that way is the lebel which is REALLY weird in almost every way you could think of, including the feeding system which a riser (like lever actions) and you needing to cycle the bolt twice (you don't do it fully the second time) with the lebel after reloading comes from you needing to place the riser ready to feed so you can shoot after cycling

for a regular mag fed bolt action rifle to need to cycle twice would need a very weird action but i do see ways why it would, which are kinda nonsensical but really not that much

[wicked parrot]

i am well aware that is how it works logically, it's just that the framework is in place to support all the types of manual cycling firearms, such as pump action or lever action, in the same script. a solution is on the to-do list, but actual bugs and content are probably going to take priority

(i tried in the last update to add a bool for it, and it didn't work at the time of release but it also didn't break anything)

[grizzled agate]

well i didn't see that message and it answers my question, and i definitely thought that'd be the answer

[grizzled agate]

also i do see ways in which the mechanism would require cycling the bolt twice

i'm not gonna type a whole gun mechanism explanation on my phone tho so if anyone wants an explanation i ain't doing it now

[sonic hornet]

it's bc lupines model is different and requires another set of animations for each gun

[wicked parrot]

animations are really only gonna effect the alignment of the gun visually, not actually impede its functionality

[sonic hornet]

idk aiming is off

[wicked parrot]

rather counterintuitively, it actually still fires at the center of the camera regardless

[sonic hornet]

players don't know where they are aiming

[jagged ore]

i just quickscope idrm

[elfin panther]

I can just feel out where I’m hip firing

[wicked parrot]

alright, got back into being able to work on the mod and tested this. it is definitely not that

[wicked parrot]

i'm sorry to say but i cannot seem to replicate your issue

[jagged ore]

I'll give it another go soonish

[wicked parrot]

until then, i will be pressing on with the next update to the mod

will try and fix any bug i can replicate as well

for the record, i test the mod with only it's most basic requirements (firearms and overhaul lib)

[wicked parrot]

soon

[lapis pier]

okay ones a shotgun

is the other a smaller gauge shotgun?

[jagged ore]

looks like a bolt action rifle

it could also be a bolt action shotgun

[lapis pier]

I recently learned of the mosin shotung

shotgun

so I was questioning my sanity lol

its a 32 gauge shotung tho

so like

its not that big

[jagged ore]

regular bullet caliber

i mean theres also the toz something

[lapis pier]

theres 2

Toz 34 which is usually chambered in 12

and the Toz 106, which is a repeating shotung with 20 gauge

[wicked parrot]

oh, the other is just the gun that already exists in the mod

bolt action rifle

[lapis pier]

alr

I didnt have the time or focus to play with this mod yet

so I sadly do not quite know whats in it

[wicked parrot]

currently only the bolt action

working on the next major update at the moment, which will have the pump action shotgun for the steel age, and some smoothbore lever actions for the bronze age

[lapis pier]

hell yeah

[elfin panther]

Pump

If it was bolt the foregrip would be connected to the receiver

[lapis pier]

we were talking about the thingy on the right

theres is bolt action shotguns that look effectively like a rifle

[elfin panther]

Ah, well you can tell if it’s a shotgun or a rifle by the barrel size

Most often than not the barrel will be larger unless it’s in like a higher gauge

[lapis pier]

it isn't

because Gorg said so x3

[elfin panther]

Yes I know I’m just saying in general

You can tell if a bolt action is a shotgun or rifle by the barrel diameter/size

[jagged ore]

not really

well

its one factor

but most importantly, most shotguns are smoothbore

[elfin panther]

yeah

[lapis pier]

32 gauge isn't that easy to spot

[elfin panther]

who is using 32 gauge

if im not wrong, 32 is a pretty niche round

[lapis pier]

the russians

the mosin shotgun

which is a bolt action shotgun

[elfin panther]

I mean, even that has a thicker barrel compared to the normal mosin

[snow dirge]

.577 revolver when? I want my characters wrist to turn to mush

[mild shuttle]

Glockmaker.
Looks inside:
Rifle and shotgun.

[grizzled agate]

i've already have a whole rant like a month ago about this but if you want to add a glock to this mod it'd be very hard and time consuming

mostly bc of the polymer

and yes a glock without polymer isn't a glock anymore

thats the WHOLE point of the gun

[elfin panther]

Also, the magazine feature thing is pretty iffy so if a pistol were to be added, I think steyr M1912 loading style would be better

[jagged ore]

i would love to have a revolver honestly

[elfin panther]

Colt Walker

Brownings blackpowder rifle thing…

[wicked parrot]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/954475608560246864/1154058393946955946/IMG_3142.gif

[elfin panther]

New weapawn in glockmaker ™

[wicked parrot]

now this guy might just be onto something

[wicked parrot]

little thing to look forward too maybe, you can now see the items when dropped on the ground

revolutionary i know

ground storage potentially if i decide it isn't too much work for the next update

yeah i can definitely do ground storage

[lapis pier]

you could also add an ammo case

looks cool

or smth

idk

but ground storage is always great :3

[wicked parrot]

not an ammo case, but pretty good

shotgun shells could definitely get a box though

mm, well, maybe

it seems to place the shapes by total quantity and not by an actual designation

so either it'd need to place a number of shells not equal to the amount actually present, or just stacked like the bullets are

[grizzled agate]

i mean its still got the slide so my point stands

mechenically glocks aren't that different from other pistol its just min maxxed to hell and beyond

[real bronze]

Technically, semi-autos are very simple mechanisims and have few parta compared to revolvers.

[grizzled agate]

i'm gonna press x to doubt

[real bronze]

Technically, have you seen a makarov or, hell, a Hi-Point. It's literally the most simplest designed pistol.

A simple blow back pistol.

[grizzled agate]

simple blowback still definitly isn't as simple as a single action revolver

[real bronze]

Not exactly true, a colt single action army has 40 to 45 parts, while a makarov has 35 to 40 parts.

Equally complex, but if I were to be honest, I would pick a revolver over the makarov, if said revolver is a triple action revolver.

[grizzled agate]

number of parts isn't an arbitrary way of quantifying how simple a gun is

[real bronze]

True, but how many moving parts, as well as actions, is required to use said pistols is also something to account for.