Combat Overhaul

[wary swift]

Because the power is stored in the limbs.

You own a computing device, but I wager you don't know the exact intricacies of its function.

Neither do I.

[stray elm]

Yeah but the limbs arent made out of carbon fiber or fiberglass

That was my point

[scenic arrow]

they are though?

[stray elm]

fine I looked it up and they are

My apologies

[scenic arrow]

yeah

its finne

[stray elm]

I concede

[scenic arrow]

but historically wood could be used

still

the technology is very new

[stray elm]

Whatever

[wary swift]

It was, that's what composite bows are, and there is a composite bow in the game.

[scenic arrow]

yeah

composite bows are fun

[wary swift]

Well, sort of, there's the recurve bow, which seems to use "composite" ingredients, but it does so in a confusing manner.

[stray elm]

It’s a game

I guess

[scenic arrow]

toolsmith should do a thing where material strenngth determines how the bow acts, annd you can use composites of diferent woods to get the material yyou want

[stray elm]

Is the hand waved reason

[stray elm]

I love spreadsheets

[scenic arrow]

it should just say inn the stats though

offtopic

lets move to toolsmith?

[wary swift]

Well, no, I was more referring to the fact that it uses bushmeat, which my best guess is that's what the meant as the sinew/sinew glue component.

[lean token]

Now that everyone said no to you, you should use that to fuel spite, learn and make your own mod adding the compound bow

Spite is a powerful thing

[scenic arrow]

I mean, we said no because he wrongly described the workings of a compound bow

[lean token]

No, said no because there is no technology in the lore

I guess teleportation is easier than making a bow

Dimension hopping

[stray elm]

I made some poor assumptions to die on

[stray elm]

I can’t art for shit

[scenic arrow]

Otherwise i like the idea of compound bow

[stray elm]

Can’t draw nonetheless animate

Not trying to get pity btw, that’s dumb

[scenic arrow]

There is a diference between opinion and facts imo

Compound bows sound fun

[stray elm]

There was some crazy machines in the RA

[lean token]

I think the game being voxel you won't need to make it too detailed, also I heard there is a website that can convert normal models .obj into voxel/blocks, although I didn't look for it myself, but seen people using it to make chiseled statues and shit, could be a start and then tweak the model

[fallow surge]

VS does not use voxel style

[void scarab]

Mind if I ask what way you normally make models for the mod? Is it through the VS model creator or do you use Blockbench/some other external program and convert?

[fallow surge]

just VSMC

[void scarab]

I see

making a compound bow model seems interesting, but I'll need to look into the upsides/downsides of converting from other software since I do have a lot more experience in blockbench.

[late citrus]

hey Maltiez, congrats on becoming a part of the VS team! does this mean Tyron and company plan on integrating Combat Overhaul's improvements into the vanilla game? or some of them at least? will Combat Overhaul remain being developed? will it be a side project, or halted entirely? love your mods and regardless it's great to see you progress this far!

[scenic arrow]

he has been part of the team for a while

[late citrus]

i didnt know lmao 💔

my boyfriend only recently made me aware

[restive nacelle]

ok, i swear someone complained about shortsword not working in tight corridors, but i have zero issues

[sterile forge]

probably a skill issue thing

[glass sluice]

that was complaining about all weapons not working in thight spaces

[restive nacelle]

Okay, makes sense though, not every weapon is suited for every environment, for tight corridors, weapons like shortswords are perfect, for not so tight corridors, or open spaces, literally everything is good

If you still don't wanna have a shortsword/arming sword for tight corridors and s bigger sword for everything else, then feel free to change the config file

[fallow surge]

Thanks, nope, nope, yes, same as before

[fallow surge]

There is a config option for it, I dont get why some ppl get so very upset about this feature.

[trail spade]

these peeps clearly havent played a soulslike then lol

[fervent swift]

Some people just like to hate on CO in general. 🤷‍♂️ Dunno why. Because they want it, but don't want it they way you've done it, so they take out their frustration on this mod. That's my theory.

[lyric marsh]

nah it's all about the author

then people pretend it's not because of the author and the mods are "buggy" and "bad" (never elaborated)

western post 2015 online culture is everything wrong with humanity

[fallow surge]

Whats wrong with the author? Are those ppl still upset about me being upset about a person harassing Salty for use of AI in thumbnails?

[lyric marsh]

yes

and then they find every possible excuse to justify their hate too

[fallow surge]

Tbh, I find this unlikely, you are generalizing

[lyric marsh]

they once screenshotted your response being rightfully mad at mrmutant poisoning the well and making people not even look at co like that's unreasonable behavior

seen too many people like this in my lifetime to pretend it's a generalization

[fallow surge]

🤷‍♂️
I dont understand how humans think

[lyric marsh]

average programmer

[glass sluice]

Often they don't think

[iron rivet]

Haven't played the prerelease 1.22 versions yet, is this mod affected by them?

Like, does it run fine or did the new versions break it?

[wary swift]

#1260976245374582886 message

[iron rivet]

Aw nuts

[amber spade]

That was me and I meant the falx, because they swing at an angle. Doable but frustrating and I wind up using a spear in tight caves which is the exact opposite of what should be happening

[amber spade]

Actually I've played and beaten Elden Ring, Dark Souls and mostly beaten Dark Souls III...the wall bounce in DS1 was easily the worst feature of that game

[amber spade]

I like the mod by the way just to be clear, I just wish block collision was off by default because my server owner is too lazy to go in the config file and change the setting and I probably took it out a bit unfairly on you, my apologies. I love 99% of CO

[fallow surge]

I will look into short sword animations at some point, they should not hit walls around you, ideally

Rn I'm focused on moving to 1.22 and doing some refactoring of the lib

[dense prairie]

A shame we can't use stances in Vintage

[fallow surge]

wdym?

[dense prairie]

Like historical sword stances (Such as halfsword)

If my rambles make sense

[fallow surge]

Spear has stances now

Code for it is here, just need a whole tone of animation work to add to other weapons

[dense prairie]

Much excitement for the future, indeed

[fallow surge]

Very distance future, unless I find a dedicated animator, or rather dedicated animator finds me

[stray elm]

Halfsword reference?

[dense prairie]

I don't mind waiting a hot minute at all

And kind of cx
Halfsword is good for CQB from my understanding

https://tenor.com/view/halfsword-half-sword-halfsword-game-half-sword-game-gif-14454650096982323610

Or just hit em with that surprise attack

[fallow surge]

irl halfswording is useful against an armored opponent, cause it makes it easier to stick the sword into gaps

[dense prairie]

Precision and control

I gotta watch more sword fighting videos
Ideally demonstrations or technique over sword fight that turns into a grapple brawl

[glass sluice]

(Or mordslag/mordhau)

[glass sluice]

Or to wrestl it on the ground

[dense prairie]

True~

[glass sluice]

Would be alsow funny to see physics based weapons as flails

[dense prairie]

Hear a noise to the left, turn sharp
Cave in own head

[restive nacelle]

I see, I didnt mean to shame you btw, so I'm sorry if it came across that way

Also, how else is a falx supposed to swing? I think it kinda makes sense it hits the wall, since the way the tip is shaped makes it probably not ideal for thrusting attacks

Unless you mean a smaller arc

[lean token]

I never paid attention to the animation of Falx, but isn't the same as the club?

[trail spade]

the lack of a proper animation tool makes it hard for me to want to work on these aninmations...

is there really no undo button?

[fallow surge]

Yes, it is hard to implement

[trail spade]

yeah thats uhh

very very important feature for a animator

also needs a freecam implemented to the animator

[fallow surge]

may be at some point, it was meant to be a dev tool for importing and fixing vanilla animations

[trail spade]

ill atleast say its good for doing anims in fpv view tho vsmc is not so good at that

[fallow surge]

I made it specifically for fp animations, cause you cant really use vsmc for it

initially tp animations wont even planned

[trail spade]

i rip my hair out doing tp in overhaul lib meanwhile i rip my hair out doing fp in vsmc 🥲

[fallow surge]

just do fp for ovh lib and just dont care about tp for time being

[trail spade]

i have to make small arms work with two handed weapons

i kinda have to

[scenic arrow]

(swings, hits the pommel into its own face, go into fetal position and cries)

[trail spade]

lol

[fallow surge]

Hm...

[trail spade]

well its not crashing that better then nothing atleast

[scenic arrow]

Speeeeen

[dense prairie]

If you don't even know your next move, how will the enemy?~

[hollow tulip]

epic flashy combat

[lean token]

anyone know what file can I check to figure out how should I make the patch json to make a compat patch with Butchering and Combat Overhaul? Because Butchering adds a bone arrow, but it has piercing damage while CO arrows are slashing, also it does 5 damage which is more than steel arrows in CO, the purpose of the bone arrow in that mod is to be between flint and copper, so I will need to also reduce the damage it does

[fallow surge]

report to the butchering author first

better for them to fix it

[lean token]

yea gonna do, for now I will just edit the file myself so I can play with it properly, it has a patch for CO in the mod but for whatever reason it has tier 0 and 5 damage, I believe it should be tier -1 and 3 damage if the point is to be between flint and copper

[restive nacelle]

spear trick

[rigid mortar]

me when I input 180 radians instead of 180 degrees

[fallow surge]

Its just a bug in spin implementation used with quaternions

[lean token]

editing the file itself worked, just need to figure out what I have to fix to solve that gap when pulling the arrow or just play with it and hope the author wil fix it

[scenic arrow]

Seems like bone arrow is centered on the wrong hand

[fallow surge]

no, the model is just half a block forward

need to edit arrow model

[scenic arrow]

Ah

[formal turret]

what armor would you recommend for iron level
i havent dug too much into combat this playthrough and i dont have much flax or leather available atm

[restive nacelle]

chainmail is good by itself, or if you wanna get more protection (like plate or brigandine)

[formal turret]

do you usually keep your armor on 24/7?

before combat overhaul i usually stuck with gambeson since it doesnt slow you down much and still provides good armor

[restive nacelle]

chainmail and skin layer (like leather jerkin or gambeson) yes, but not the heavier sets

armor hinders your mobility much less than in vanilla

and since i have way too much food, i sometimes don't take it off, in case i get mauled by a bear

[formal turret]

i see

so once i get my hand of more flax would you recommend gambeson and chain mail together?

[restive nacelle]

yes, good protection in general, and it has very few debuffs

maybe scale if you want a bit more, but idk how you craft it in CO

[restive nacelle]

so it's it's own set

got it

scale uses the slots for chainmail and plate/brigandine, mind you

[formal turret]

yeah i see that

so maybe keep a set on hand as my dungeoneering loadout

[restive nacelle]

as your main loadout?

[formal turret]

i'll keep gambeson + chain mail as my main 24/7 loadout

and when i need to go into dungeons i swap the chain mail with scale

[restive nacelle]

alright

it's gonna cost a bit but sounds good

[formal turret]

yeah lol

but hey, more stuff to do for me

btw what weapon(s) do you use?

ive currently stuck with a falx but i see that it can be a bit lacking in tight spaces

[restive nacelle]

shortsword is great in tight spaces

or spears, too

i use either a greatsword or poleaxe for more open spaces (i chose blackguard)

[restive nacelle]

arming sword also works btw, but it's a bit finnicky

[formal turret]

btw is damage resistance a flat or %?

for enemies

[restive nacelle]

i don't really know how it works, but it's the same as the player i believe?

if you have an attack that deals high damage, but the attack tier is much lower than the armor tier for the enemy, it's gonna deal very little damage

if the protection value is close, it'll deal a good amount

[formal turret]

i see

[restive nacelle]

and if the damage value is much higher than the protection value, it will deal most of the damage

wait i think it's percentage based

you can check how much damage you'll take in the armor page

[formal turret]

quite surprising that bullets do blunt damage

[restive nacelle]

what bullets

firearms mod?

[formal turret]

yeah

[restive nacelle]

i thought they dealt piercing damage

but makes sense if they deal blunt damage

[formal turret]

how so?

to me bullets would do more slashing or piercing damage

[restive nacelle]

they are a pretty blunt object

it's just really fast and hard hitting

[formal turret]

and something that goes at that speed usually pierces and shreds through what you shoot at

bullets dont kill by ways of bludgeoning or concussions

[scenic arrow]

its for gameplay reasons

[restive nacelle]

also, we're talking about bp guns

muskets deal tier 9 blunt damage, which is still crazy

[scenic arrow]

for enemies if the tier damage of the attack is lower than its defense, it halves damage no matter what, otherwise, full damage

[formal turret]

even if higher? just full damage?

[sterile tree]

Except...they literally cause blunt force trauma. This is especially the case for blackpowder guns that use balls as projectles, which is the entirety of Firearms mod

All bullets cause blunt force trauma, some just much less than others to gain travel distance/penetration/etc

[restive nacelle]

if fast ball hit you, it's still like getting hit by ball

[scenic arrow]

yes

[formal turret]

you can argue that hitting something hard enough to the point it pierces through is not blunt anymore

[gusty saffron]

You could also argue that it doesn't really "pierce" through as much as it "rams" through

[formal turret]

point being?

[gusty saffron]

the difference being in the amount of energy transmitted to it's surrounding

A thin, needle like projectile would pierce without doing much damage

a thick projectile would impart much more force

The whole concept of "stopping power" relies on that

[formal turret]

and they would still die as a result of direct damage to vital parts of their body or blood loss

whereas death by blunt force trauma has more internal damage than external, rather than both

[gusty saffron]

The categories are arbitrary and very gamey

Meant as a trade-off

[formal turret]

the only time bullets would cause injuries consistent with blunt force is if the bullet is stopped

such as fractures, organ damage, bruising, etc...

[gusty saffron]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9462949/#:~:text=Internally%2C bullets cause crushing or,tissue cavitation along their course.&text=The magnitude of this permanent,or fragmentation within the body.&text=A small and intact bullet,its caliber or entry orientation.&text=Additionally%2C a “temporary” cavity,tissues past their elastic limit.&text=This continued%2C radial acceleration and,tensile properties of implicated tissues.&text=High-energy projectiles are associated,size as the permanent cavity.&text=Additionally%2C the amount of yaw,relationship to temporary cavity size.&text=In all%2C GSWs from high,bullets and secondary missile fragments.

Bullet wounds are literally mostly blunt force trauma on the surrounding tissue

[trail spade]

holy crap thats a massive link

[gusty saffron]

Sorry, how do I shorten it?

[trail spade]

idk lol ive never seen a link this long before

[gusty saffron]

Is it against server etiquette?

[trail spade]

nah

im just more amazed by the link being this long

[formal turret]

but the fact of the matter is that it also causes lacerations from the spalling and cavitation

[gusty saffron]

It totally does

It's just not the main issue

[formal turret]

so having it be purely blunt is still non sensical

[gusty saffron]

Slashing someone with a blade also does some blunt trauma

should that be counted, too?

I think it's unnecessarily complicating stuff, better stick to the main mechanism

[formal turret]

yes a negligible amount

[gusty saffron]

I work in the medical field, I have seen machette wounds

it's not negligible

just not the main mechanism

I really think it's mostly a linguistic issue

[formal turret]

besides, blunt trauma is also defined as being non-penetrative

[gusty saffron]

We usually talk about bullets "piercing"

[formal turret]

which would only happen in the case a bullet is stopped

[gusty saffron]

The cavitation effect of the bullet is the main driver of damage, and it's non-penetrating

Basically, as the bullet passes through tissue, the speed of it passing causes an expanding cavity, which then compresses again

[formal turret]

i know how a bullet works

i was in the army

[restive nacelle]

reminder, we're talking about smoothbore

[gusty saffron]

Sorry, I couldn't tell

[formal turret]

but to pass through tissue it still needs to penetrate

[gusty saffron]

It does!

Just not the penetration that kills

That's why people survive headshot wounds with small calibers

[restive nacelle]

well, a hammer can technically penetrate skin, right?

[formal turret]

and most die of brain hemorrhage

[gusty saffron]

Of course, because surrounding blood vessels get damaged. If it were only the ones in the way, clotting would prevent that

[restive nacelle]

also, im pretty sure the game is talking about the "form factor" (for lack of a better word) not the actual wound itself

[gusty saffron]

Anyways, God knows I tried. You can keep being wrong all you want, it's your right. I'm gonna go play and enjoy the game now.

[formal turret]

whatever helps you sleep at night man

[restive nacelle]

also, the guns the spanish colonizers would use could get stopped by the aztec's cloth armor (i forgot the name) pretty effectively, which is because smoothbore is still blunt

[gusty saffron]

It really doesn't, it's not a factor at all

[gusty saffron]

The sleep thing, that is, I agree on that

[lime leaf]

with this, surviving small calibers is most of the time a case of distance and quick medical treatment

[fallow surge]

this went way too into offtopic, please move to offtopic channel

[lime leaf]

besides the guns we're using in game can kill a man up to 300 yards away and theoretically have an effective range of 150-200 meters, "historically"

ah oki

[fallow surge]

This thread is too big now, no new users can participate in it. So I made a new one: https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/1482639521291178015

[naive mountain]

i have that stupid bug with the animations and no damage, maybe mod incompatibility?, also noticed this "Did not find required shape game:shapes/item/tool/club/{type}.json anywhere. (defined in Shape for item game:club)"

[slim inlet]

Remove kemono

[naive mountain]

ok

[slim inlet]

Kemono is pretty much incompatible with any mods that adds any animations and CO depends on animation to detect hits iirc
No clue about the club error tho

[naive mountain]

thanks will see if that was the cause or if anything still does shenanigans
yeah it was kemono thanks for the help

[inland portal]

is there any way to lock attack direction?

[scenic arrow]

Yes

Look at the config

[inland portal]

not sure how to do that

uhhhh

[scenic arrow]

Config lib

[trail spade]

its like a keybind i think actually

shift + r

[scenic arrow]

The combat overhaul configs?

[trail spade]

to lock dirrection

[scenic arrow]

Yeah

You can use a custom keybind though

Also i think you need to enable it?

[trail spade]

no it just let me lock dirrection whenever i want via that keybind

[faint plover]

what's the point of recurve bow ?
does it have better drawing speed and precision ?
longbow just has so much more damage, but tier and dmg are the only stats we can see

[still mauve]

it's faster and slows you down less

[wooden field]

Would anything happen mechanically if you got the same proficiency trait twice? I'm playing hill dwarf and Mason in the racial classes overhaul mod and both include mace mastery so I am curious if it does anything.

[gentle bane]

only way to find out is to try it

[inland portal]

dont see why it wouldnt stack

[faint plover]

if I want to use archer armor such as open helmet and torso armor without arms,
do i have to just accept the fact I can get nuked on the arms, neck and face ?

[scenic arrow]

Tbh hunter can still shoot really well even with light armor such as chain/scale

[faint plover]

yeah the aim's fine, it's mostly the manipulation speed that's annoying

actually you gave me an idea

i'm gonna make a normal torso armor

but with light arm armor

bc we can split them

i'll get scale arms, and chainmail+brigandine on the torso

not clue about the helmet tho, i think i'll have to go for a normal helmet bc being able to get hit in the neck or face is just not good at all

[lyric marsh]

can't really get nuked on arms cause they take half damage

neck and face are very unlikely to be hit and if you do there's second chance to save you

scale sleeves are a bad idea, big aiming penalty

it's more for light melee setups

if you need sleeves just go chain

full helmet is okay

[wooden field]

Ah I guess, it's just hard to check in sp because it's hard to measure speed

[inland portal]

is there any way to keep the m1's from alternating when i attack

[gentle bane]

30% attack speed makes huge difference

[faint plover]

i just noticed, the hunter's slashing attack tier trait doesn't work on crossbow because they are piercing...

i love crossbows but piercing isn't good to kill drifters

[lyric marsh]

use higher tier ones

and proper bolts

iron already gets an extra tier

[faint plover]

i mean, yes, that's how weapons work lol, higher tier = better

[lyric marsh]

the crossbows that can't deal with drifters aren't good for much anyway (the two starting ones)

stirrup and latch are very good

especially with the trait

[faint plover]

ye i love stirrup

[lyric marsh]

latch is a machinegun and stirrup is a dmr

[scenic arrow]

Stirrup is great as bronze

20 dmg per shot?

And cheap

[faint plover]

20 dmg tier 3

[lyric marsh]

used to be less but now it's nuts indeed

[scenic arrow]

Yuh

[faint plover]

the tier is low tho

[scenic arrow]

Even as a blackguard the sway is almost none

[faint plover]

a recurve or longbow is tier 4+1 with perk

[scenic arrow]

Its good for huntin

[lyric marsh]

iron bolts and that's enough to deal with surface enemies (though they're already super weak)

[faint plover]

it's weird how crossbows are lower tier but higher damage than bow

wouldn't it be the opposite ?

crossbows punch through with a smaller head

[scenic arrow]

Balance ig

Also we are comparing a bronze crossbow

[faint plover]

yeah but the bows are easier to get than the bronze crossbow lol

[lyric marsh]

try aiming them

[scenic arrow]

Yeah but the bows are hard to use even if you dont have a sawy debuff

Bows are very effectively used for hunter due to low sway and fast reload so you dont waste time lining your shot

[lyric marsh]

crossbows don't have major movement penalties, have very low sway and can hold a shot indefinitely

[faint plover]

i am hunter tho

so ig I'll pick up the bow again until I get better crossbows

[lyric marsh]

or just get iron

[faint plover]

but the iron latch crossbow doesn't even get higher tier

[lyric marsh]

bolts give tiers

do not sleep on ammo

applies to both bows and crossbows

iron +1
m iron +2
steel +3

everything short of endgame will be just fine with m iron bolts

[sterile forge]

I use the windless as a cheap musket underground. With steel bolts you can blow the head off a lot of priority targets down in the caves.

[mint fable]

Yes there is a setting for it in the config file

[inland portal]

thank you

[restive nacelle]

Does this work for servers?

[still mauve]

yeah it should be clientsided

[lyric marsh]

most configs are clientside

except for ones that alter game functionality obviously

[rotund vault]

I seem to recall that a dagger was coming to this mod or was added at some point. Did I imagine that in my head?

[turbid pilot]

Just wondering cause I can't find it in the mod patch notes, did combat overhaul recently remove the 30% damage increase for blackguards?

Just noticed I am doing a lot less damage in my new run

I've come to the conclusion that I can only be combat overhaul. welp better go teach myself Json patching I guess

[lyric marsh]

damage tweaks were replaced by tier bonuses

everything now uses hp in multiples of 4

damage percentages were removed for clarity

[turbid pilot]

Yep, until recently I was apperntly on a version that still had the bonus but also the tier tweak. Don't like the tier tweaks one bit so its learning patching for me then

[lyric marsh]

you can just increase global damage in config

doesn't matter unless you're running a server

[turbid pilot]

I am doing just that

And seeing as none of my friends like the tier buffing or debuffing in general nothing will be lost if we go back to the philosophy from before those were changed in the mod.

Can't rly do without the mod nowadays either

[restive nacelle]

Ig i can see why

The tier damage system for enemies seem kind of underbaked

[turbid pilot]

Rly wish these types of class rebalance updates were able to be turned off in the config

[wooden field]

What's the point in tier buffs? They make a class like blackguard pretty much worthless with good weapons don't they?

[turbid pilot]

Don't rly want to stay behind too many updates cause of how interconnected the mods are either. especially with 1.22 so near

[scenic arrow]

No

Slashing for example

[wooden field]

But once your tier is sufficiently high to damage the enemy, there's no benefits to improving it?

Edit:
To damage the enemy fully

[turbid pilot]

In my experience the damage tier buffs do LITERALLY nothing

Especially when you get into the iron age

[wooden field]

Blackguard already has some pretty severe weaknesses in needing such massive quantities of food and hunger as well as poor ranged efficacy, I don't know why it needed this as well.

[scenic arrow]

In combat overhaul it has the least hunger debuff while wearing armor, it has half the hunger rate, movement speed and manipulation loss from armor

[scenic arrow]

Its weaknesses are more than covered by its strengths

[turbid pilot]

In vanilla that is not much of a problem if you ask me but with all the connected mods for crossbows and guns the reload speed alone is INSANE.

[scenic arrow]

Yes, the attack tier increase only matters if your gear is suboptimal

Or in pgp

Pvp*

[scenic arrow]

Because its a melee focused class

It is made for the greatsword

[turbid pilot]

But now, I don't see a reason to play blackguard in CO anymore I think. the tier system is dog shit so I'd basically only take blackguard to move faster in armor and have it eat less of my food. and at that point i'd much rather just not

[turbid pilot]

Wasn't complaning. was just expanding on what mr wheels said

I think that fits

[scenic arrow]

I mean, in most of my experience

Crossbow/gun reloading was done as preparation

As their damage burst is high

But it has lower dps compared to melee

[turbid pilot]

Also in actually you are still burning more food in the end aren't you? with the general debuff for that on the class

[wooden field]

But then it's a huge nerf to blackguards still, hitting hard was part of the identity, and removing percentage buffs in melee eliminates that as who doesn't seek to melee good melee weapons anyways? Steel greatsword has tier 6 damage, and I don't know if there's any enemy where tier 6 vs tier 7 would make a difference.

Also blackguards have huge drift in weapons as well.

[turbid pilot]

So in the end you basically get axtra health and thats it

[scenic arrow]

For nightmare it makes a difference

[scenic arrow]

It does in plate armor

[turbid pilot]

Not rly

I tested it

[scenic arrow]

And the tier "5"

Double headed

Etc

[turbid pilot]

its what, 1 hit difference? not a lot

Wow what a buff, truly impressed

[scenic arrow]

Its double damage

You get half the damage from not meeting the tier needed

[turbid pilot]

The soldier that is good in damage is now..... basically just as good in dealing damage.

[scenic arrow]

What weapon are you considering?

[turbid pilot]

Tested it when the tier update first came out. it is just 1 hit

[scenic arrow]

It was changed

[turbid pilot]

I was mainly testing with maces, polehammers and longswords

[scenic arrow]

For blackguards, the main weapons are poleaxes and swords

[turbid pilot]

In what way?

[turbid pilot]

yes thank you I too can read their bonuses

[scenic arrow]

50% dmg if tier is below

75% for equal tier

100% for tier above

Now its 50% if tier is below

100% if tier is equal or above

[turbid pilot]

Well at least being above the tier actually does something now, hate how you need to exceed the tier to do 100% the damage.

[scenic arrow]

The first one, with 50%,75%,100% was before

[turbid pilot]

Why not meet it = 100% and exceed it do more then 100% damange, god i love the bones of this mod but many of the random changes are annoying to deal with

[scenic arrow]

Ask maltiez for his philosophy

[turbid pilot]

If I were to guess it is to make it less lethal. personally I dislike it.
Gonna see what I can do with patching but at this point I feel like I'm removing half the mod to get the core of the mod back

[scenic arrow]

Or to make it balanced

[rotund vault]

Tier buffs only matter for PvP ironically, but otherwise it makes it so you can do full damage to certain mobs early.

Early game power, late game irrelevance

[turbid pilot]

PvP hadn't even crossed my mind to be honest.

Seems like such a minor thing for a game like vintage story

[lyric marsh]

lets you fight anything with swords much more reliably

get an early tier falx, it has the falx bonus AND a tier on top

AND you have prof for it to swing faster

that's insane

blaggard can just ignore damage types basically

use swords for everything as soon as you can make them

besides what is a 30% bonus actually doing

it's a placebo

[inland portal]

okay uh honestly i dont know how to access config

[turbid pilot]

I never had any issues with swords before the tier system got introduced. uses a long sword for everything and things died, big part of that was the 30% damange boost too. without it the guard feels like its doing nothing more then any other class in melee

[lyric marsh]

configlib+imgui

[inland portal]

when i tried adding the config mod vintage story crashed

[lyric marsh]

add imgui too

make sure versions match too

[inland portal]

alright

thank you

[lyric marsh]

entities now have less hp across the board, and as i mentioned hp now comes in multiples of 4

it making any difference is an extreme edge case

[slate valve]

Isn't blackguard the only one that can parry projectiles without shields?

[lyric marsh]

yes

[slate valve]

That seems pretty damn good to me

[lyric marsh]

blaggard is already insane

[turbid pilot]

Just strafe

what use is a parry if I can just walk to the side?

parry is amazing in melee

But not so much in ranged

[lyric marsh]

cause enemy hit detection is jank

[slate valve]

Isn't blackguard also the one that has the most walk speed penalty reduction? So you can strafe and parry even more

[scenic arrow]

Its so op, tried swinging a sword withou being blackguard and it was disgusting how slow it was, even more in plate

[lyric marsh]

"i hit anything in this general direction"

[lyric marsh]

that's the prof

[scenic arrow]

Only it has walk speed reduction

[lyric marsh]

not the damage bonus

[scenic arrow]

Yeah

[slate valve]

So blackguard is even better then

[scenic arrow]

Yes

Blackguard, the commited melee class, is busted in melee

[inland portal]

and then, how do i use it?

or. open

[scenic arrow]

Who couldve guessed

[inland portal]

it

[scenic arrow]

On the pause menu

[inland portal]

oh okay

[scenic arrow]

Its on the aide of the configs

[inland portal]

thank you

[scenic arrow]

So "settings"

And "mod settings" on the side

[slate valve]

Oh wow manipulation speed penalty is reduced by 50% as well

I struggle to see how blackguard is a bad class

[turbid pilot]

the lack of the vanilla damage boost rly feels lacking to me, but it appears I am in the minority about that

[scenic arrow]

The other buffs make blackguard a weapons of mass destruction

Its like taking away a stick of tnt and giving back a thermobaric bomb

[turbid pilot]

I rly do struggle to see that, truly. because before assuming you meet the damage tier you did 130% damage, from my understanding now if you meet it you do 75% damage.
Before the tier damage update blackguard still hate the speed bonus, still had the movement speed in armor bonus. so those stayed the same.

the only thing that happened here from my (obviously flawed) understanding is that everybody became far less lethal yet the blackguard got hit less with the nerf hammer

I do not see a world where 75% is more then 130%

Thatis more like taking away a stick of dynamite and replacing it with a fire cracker

[scenic arrow]

I already told tou

That was from BEFORE

[scenic arrow]

.

Before youd do 75%*1.3

Or about 98.5%

[turbid pilot]

Oke I admit I read that wrong, that was on me

[scenic arrow]

If:
Damage tier>=armor tier
Multiply damage by 1
Else multiply damage by 0.5

[scenic arrow]

For npcs

[turbid pilot]

So past durability do blackguard have much reason to move past iron now?
I don't know the enemy damange tiers from the tip of my mind but if meeting it is the same as exceeding it then why use steel swords?

I at least think iron is the tier where you start hitting nightmare creatures on equal terms at least

[scenic arrow]

Because even with the extra damage tier, nigthtmares need one more tier of armor piercing for slashing full damage

[scenic arrow]

Either nightmare or the variant(gearfoot, double headed)

[slate valve]

Just checking right now, stilt/bellhead/deepsplit shivers, gearfoot bowtorns and double-headed drifters have resistance tier 7 for slashing. Steel greatsword is tier 6, so as a blackguard you do full damage to them

[turbid pilot]

Roger. Misremembered that then

[slate valve]

Iron is tier 4 btw (meteoric is tier 5), so as a blackguard you do full damage to nightmare creatures, which have tier 6 slashing resistance

With meteoric, I mean

And with iron, you do full damage to corrupted tier

[wooden field]

But if using blunt damage at even bronze tier you'd do full dmage.

[lyric marsh]

iron being endgame viable is just a co issue in general

nothing exclusive to blaggard

[restive nacelle]

This sounds much better than what we have right now

[restive nacelle]

It's just not, you can comfortably wear full plate, chainmail and gambeson with almost no issues, in exchange for being incredibly tanky, especially if you have steel armor, which makes you almost immortal

I like that CO buffs plate armor

But i feel like it's a bit overtuned

Also, they made armor cheaper, too, which I really don't like

For the amount of protection that you get in CO, i would expect armor to be just as expensive as vanilla, not less

[scenic arrow]

Although its cheaper, the amount of work needed for plate in manual smithing is hell

[scenic arrow]

In armory at least

[restive nacelle]

Yeah, i think it's a good trade off

Chainmail is way too cheap and not any harder to make, which is what i hate

[scenic arrow]

Ita much weaker though

[restive nacelle]

Even with skin layer armor?

[scenic arrow]

Yes

Due to piercing

[restive nacelle]

I guess that's fair

But i only remember bowtorns having piercing damage

Is the slashing damage protection bad, too?

I don't really know since i only installed the mod after i had gotten to steel and had plate armor

[scenic arrow]

Slashing tends to be animals and shivers

I dont remember if higher tier drifters are slashing too due to the blade

[restive nacelle]

I think they also deal blunt

At least nightmare drifters do

Which is why they're kinda dangerous

[faint plover]

why does my aiming direction sometimes doesn't work and get stuck on side attacks ?

[scenic arrow]

low sensitivy

increase the sensitivy of the aiming change

[wooden field]

Is the pinned spreadsheet for stats up to date?

[restive nacelle]

It seems to be updated (just not the very first page though)

[wooden field]

Thanks, I was trying to use it to determine the right arrows for bear hunting but I am useless at interpreting it.

[faint plover]

it just blocks to one side

my halberd is just an axe now lmao

i can't poke or top swing

i found the problem

so shift + R

locks direction aiming

i was constantly pressing shift + R bc R switches to my secondary sword with the sheath and sling mod

(and i was doing that while sprinting)

[fallow surge]

Hm... I might need to change default hotkey to something else... No idea to waht though

[faint plover]

Tbf I should have noticed the red text when I pressed shift r when trying to switch weapons

But I didn't know what it meant until now

[rotund vault]

@fallow surge Is the Riposte attribute system ready to use for any/all weapons if I simply add those attributes to the itemtypes?
So for example if I created a new rapier weapon could I simply add "CanRiposte": true and the rest of the appropriate key values?

[fallow surge]

It is fully functional

[rotund vault]

Got it. Thank you!

[rotund vault]

Is there any limitation that would stop a weapon with DirectionalAttacks from having a Riposte?
I can't seem to get it working

I am trying to add a Riposte to the Poleaxe, for reference, which has different typed directionals, so I cannot fall back on Attack

[scenic arrow]

Look at the greatsword

Great sword has a riposte and directional attacks

[restive nacelle]

Yeah, but i think that one is a but weird since the riposte is also a bash

[rotund vault]

Greatsword is defined under Attack, not DirectionalAttacks

Since all of it slashing damage then you can just say it is Directionals: Square and it will auto map attacks

But for Poleaxe you need different damage types

but tbh the greatsword stab should be a piercing attack as well

[hollow pasture]

The philosophy behind it was that the damage bonus never changed anything in actuality. You would only notice a 1-hit reduction if you had to hit things like 11 times

[hollow pasture]

Parries do briefly stun enemies

[wooden field]

A 30% buff though would turn a 5 or even 4 hit kill to one lesser though, depending on break points.

[hollow pasture]

Not with how minimal the change in damage is between weapon materials and weapons

I don't have the exact values right now, but if I do 5 base damage (6.5 with bonus) and a drifter has 30 health then I'm going from 6 to 5 hits I suppose

On Blackguard it makes sabres the highest dps melee weapon I believe? I actually haven't messed with it since the base damages all became the same

[hollow pasture]

So should the longsword's

If that hasn't been changed already

Oops, I need to turn my pings off. Sorry!

[restive nacelle]

Isn't the highest damage (blackguard shortsword, meteoric iron and steel falx) like 4.4?

(in vanilla)

[hollow pasture]

I need to go crunch the numbers and remake the video to account for new changes

[restive nacelle]

The wiki says it's 4.25 for meteoric or steel falxes

By those numbers, damage increases by a whopping 1.27

5.525 total

That's not a very good buff if you ask me

[scenic arrow]

Isnt it 5.25

Where you getting that 4.25

I am sure 4.25 is for tin bronze falx

[restive nacelle]

Wiki can still be wrong, but this is where i got it

[scenic arrow]

How long has it been since you played

Its 5.25 for steel/miron falx

[restive nacelle]

Idk man

1.21.6

And i barely use falxes anyways

It was 4.4 last time i checked

Oh wait

No i rember

It was 5.2

So vanilla blackguards deal 6.825 with a steel falx instead of 5.2

Sounds awesome

[scenic arrow]

Thats steel spears

[restive nacelle]

Well i haven't used those so i have no clue where that number came from 😭

Maybe from using so much tin bronze it poisoned my brain

[rotund vault]

Is it intended that gold and silver armor no longer exist with the latest armory updates?

[civic dragon]

#1260976245374582886 message

check here

[rotund vault]

I see

[civic dragon]

you plate the steel armor with gold or silver to get the look

[rotund vault]

The helmet recipes are still forgeable so i suppose you can skip straight to steel helmets now

with a copper anvil

[civic dragon]

that's weird

is that visored helmet mod or combat overhaul doing that?

[rotund vault]

i was testing in a creative world on SP

[rotund vault]

I did some work on a temporary set of ripostes for my game, and what I noticed that weapons like Poleaxe which have "DirectionalAttack" defined with different damage types instead of the "Attack" cannot accept the basic functionality. I'm not certain why this is the case but for everything else it worked fine.

[fallow surge]

Should work just fine, just probably you define it incorrectly

[rotund vault]

Maybe. I will try again and see if I can find out what I did wrong

[rotund vault]

If I'm understanding it correctly it would just be:

"TwoHandedStance": {
      "CanAttack": true,
      "CanParry": true,
      "CanBlock": true,
      "CanSprint": true,
      "CanThrow": false,
      "CanBash": true,
      "CanRiposte": true,
      "SpeedPenalty": 0,
      "ParryCooldownMs": 600,
      "BlockCooldownMs": 0,
      "GripLengthFactor": 4,
      "GripMinLength": 0,
      "GripMaxLength": 0,
      "DirectionalAttacks": {},
      "HandleAttack": {},
      "Riposte": {},
      "AttackHitSound": "game:sounds/thud",
      "BashHitSound": "game:sounds/thud",
      "HandleHitSound": "game:sounds/held/shieldblock-wood-light",
      "AttackDirectionsType": "Square",
      "AttackAnimation": {
        "Top": ["armory:poleaxe-slash-2h-top"],
        "Left": ["armory:poleaxe-slash-2h-left"],
        "Right": ["armory:poleaxe-slash-2h-right"],
        "Bottom": ["armory:poleaxe-thrust-2h-bottom"]
      },
      "RiposteAnimation": {"armory:poleaxe-slash-2h-top},
      "ReadyAnimation": "armory:poleaxe-ready-2h",
      "IdleAnimation": "armory:poleaxe-idle-1h",
      "Parry": {
        "Zones": ["Head", "Face", "Neck", "Torso", "LeftArm", "RightArm", "LeftHand", "RightHand", "LeftLeg", "RightLeg", "LeftFoot", "RightFoot"],
        "Directions": [90, 90, 90, 90],
        "Sound": "game:sounds/held/shieldblock-metal-heavy",
        "BlockTier": {"BluntAttack": 9, "SlashingAttack": 9, "PiercingAttack": 9},
        "CanBlockProjectiles": false
      },
      "Block": {
        "Zones": ["Face", "Neck", "Torso", "LeftArm", "RightArm", "LeftLeg", "RightLeg"],
        "Directions": [75, 75, 75, 75],
        "Sound": "game:sounds/held/shieldblock-metal-light",
        "BlockTier": {"BluntAttack": 7, "SlashingAttack": 7, "PiercingAttack": 7},
        "CanBlockProjectiles": false
      },
      "BlockAnimation": "armory:poleaxe-parry-2h",
      "BlockBash": {
        "StopOnTerrainHit": false,
        "StopOnEntityHit": true,
        "CollideWithTerrain": true,
        "MaxReach": 9,
        "DamageTypes": [
          {"DamageByType": {"*": {"DamageType": "BluntAttack", "Tier": 3, "Damage": 3.5}}, "Knockback": 2, "DurabilityDamage": 1, "Collider": [-2.5, 0, 0.5, -0.3, 0, 0.5]}
        ]
      },
      "BlockBashAnimation": {
        "Top": ["armory:poleaxe-bash-2h-2"],
        "Left": ["armory:poleaxe-bash-2h-1"],
        "Right": ["armory:poleaxe-bash-2h-1"],
        "Bottom": ["armory:poleaxe-bash-2h-2"]
      }```

Directionals and riposte yknow definitions removed so I can fit this message fully- Just leaving the structure

And in this case it does not work the directional attacks do not play any animations. Do you see any errors?

[kindred hazel]

I realize that it is highly unlikely, but I've run into an odd situation as we're prepping our friend group's new VS server for the 1.22 full release.

Most of the group adored Combat Overhaul but one particular person absolutely despises it to the point they've mentioned not playing if we include it.

Is there anyway to disable directional attacks for a single player instead of server wide?

[glass sluice]

For sure it is possible to lock it in one direction (ctrl r i think)

[glass sluice]

The cat tree got this "problem"

[sterile forge]

There are many ways to lock or deal with directional attacks.
If thats they're only problem then it shouldn't be an issue anyway because without CO your locked to spear and falx anyway which dont have directional attacks in CO

[glass sluice]

Spear don't have it now?

[sterile forge]

Oh right did maltiez just update spear to have directional?

Haven't used it since I updated to current ver

[glass sluice]

I think it always have directional attacks (upper and lowwer thrusts)

[sterile forge]

That was pike

[glass sluice]

I think that alsow spear
But I might be wrong

[glass sluice]

But only in 2 hands

[fallow surge]

Spear have stances now, you can choose on the fly how you want it