Combat Overhaul

[placid tartan]

I don't really think PvE can be fixed without a great number of additions, but making an already lack luster experience extremely one dimensional through them all having a shared weakness only worsens the issue.

[lyric marsh]

better than no damage types

[placid tartan]

It's basically the same as if there weren't.

[lyric marsh]

cause then spears really do become the meta

[placid tartan]

I wouldn't think so. The best way to balance these types of things tends to be the route maltiez already took with everything on tier and hand count doing the same damage. Then the balancing factors become their secondary features. Arcs, attack patterns, hitbox lengths.

In my case, the greatsword lunge was the best of all of those.

[fallow surge]

they dont have shared weakness: animals have lower piercing, monsters - lower blunt. Splitting them even further will result in damage types being irrelevant, cause you cant chose a weapon for the situation, cause in each situation you will have multiple weaknesses tyoes

[lyric marsh]

then it becomes a different game

called doom eternal

[fallow surge]

everything already was doing the same damage "on tier and hand count"

it just has +-0.5 damage depending on material type

stop repeating the same missconseption again and again

[placid tartan]

Was there not a time when longaxes dealt 9 damage and greatswords 7?

Both being steel

[fallow surge]

long axes dealt and deal 2h damage, same as greatswords

there is 1h, 1.5h, 2h damage, + 2h+ for some ocaisions

And having one weapon deal 0.5 or even 1 damage more - results in no difference, so I dont know what you are so upset about

The point of splitting damages into those 4 is to stop deceiving player with irrelevant differences

4,6,8,10 - damage values all result in different amount of hits to kill, adding inbetween values does not make a difference in practice, and just messes with players' brains

[placid tartan]

I see.

[fossil owl]

I love this mod so much

[lyric marsh]

essential

even when not doing combat

cause the armor is much more modular and generally much lighter

and ranged adds a dimension vanilla refuses to add

[fallow surge]

Actually, +1 damage does result in some difference against enemies with 24+ hp, may be I will make quenching damage buff add +1

[lyric marsh]

would +1 tier be too good?

[fallow surge]

I think there are 2 buffs in vanilla, one to damage, one to crit or something, I need to look into it

+1 tier is one of the buffs for sure

[lyric marsh]

crits are another mechanic added out of nowhere

[fallow surge]

the reason for crits, is dev realizing that +10% damage will not make a difference

At least it is not like +2% crit chance, like most of the other games

I'm not a fan of randomness, so I will not add critchance to CO weapons

[wary swift]

Serrations help with fibrous materials a lot, though.

[fallow surge]

Yeah, after thinking about it a bit more, serrations can make a difference

[wary swift]

Many knives designed for rope cutting, like sailor knives or climber knives, have serrated parts.

Here's a knife specifically for rope cutting, for example.

[fallow surge]

Though for the combat: you really dont want your weapon to be stuck in an enemy, so personally I would rather avoid serrated weapons

[wary swift]

Seeing them side by side, it honestly feels like they saw this knife design and ran with it.

[fallow surge]

These look more like saw teeth than serrations though

[wary swift]

Was probably too hard to represent well without going too fine on the details.

[tranquil onyx]

I’m going to go a bit deadass on the devs: they wanted to have Warhammer chainswords in their game but make them retro primitive and the falxes we got is the result 💀

[wary swift]

Chain swords are a very different kettle of fish.

[tranquil onyx]

I wish there were just regular swords for normal progression and after a certain technological threshold there would be actual swords with current falx qualities that allowed people to fight rust creatures effectively.

Problem is, vanilla doesn’t really allow that, and seraphs apparently have some metalworking knowledge embedded in them, since they can make falxes from the get-go

[wary swift]

They sure look cool, but I wouldn't want to use one, if I had the option of a chain sword or the vs falx, I'd use the falx.

[fallow surge]

wh is over-the-top fantasy meant to look stupid and cool, and chainswords fit it very well. VS is meant to be more grounded

[tranquil onyx]

Oh it for sure wants to be grounded

Making rust creatures have metal embedded in the bodies and coming up with falx for design to combat that is an odd decision, is all.

[fallow surge]

tbh, I dont see how falx serrations can help with metal, and unless it is soft thin metal, its shape wont help either

[tranquil onyx]

That’s my point, I don’t get this either

[fallow surge]

Ok... I think I dont want to deal with all this, may be i will add actual falxes into armory later, but I wont mess with vanilla falxes.

[sterile forge]

Thank you maltiez...

[lyric marsh]

i wouldn't mind a touchup on vanilla falx

cause it has that ridged vanilla look

[gentle bane]

Tbh you should make blackbronze into iron if not meteoric

[rigid mortar]

https://tenor.com/view/vintage-story-elk-vintagestory-dive-gif-12112522258777743512

[lyric marsh]

that's all creatures

they keep all their velocity when walking off blocks

[rigid mortar]

ICBM

[slim inlet]

All it needs is the l4d hunter sound clip

[lyric marsh]

intercontinental ballistic moose

[rigid mortar]

The moose even lead its aim

that's crazy

[scenic arrow]

"run momentum type shit"

[uncut marten]

Hi
i have problem with ingame wiki, i can craft items but cant look up their recipes

[gentle bane]

are you using optimization mods?

[uncut marten]

only content mods and libs fro them

and firearms have same problem

[stray elm]

Did you just load into the world?

Give it second

[uncut marten]

it stays the same

nothing changes after 2h

ok

nvm

sorry for trouble

i have to directly search for it and it works

[lyric marsh]

damage 10?

my guess is you have some mod messing with co

[uncut marten]

maybe level up mod

[stray elm]

It doesn’t work with more guns?

I was thinking of adding more guns, I already have meteor steel mod

[fallow surge]

Actually yeah, it seems I have moved javelins to 10 damage, probably from 9 or something

[lyric marsh]

that's quite strong

[scenic arrow]

It has been like that since the all the same weapons do the same dmg(excession being stone to flint, and throwing dmg of javellin, from 6 with flint, 8 copper and 10 bronze+) only change is tier from metal metal

[fallow surge]

Yeah, I know

And it will stay until I see some convincing arguments against it, and without exaggerations, I'm sick of ppl constantly exaggerating and dramatizing everything

[lyric marsh]

well that is serious competition to crossbows

very cost efficient too

will keep in mind to try in the next world

[gentle bane]

throwing delay makes it a bit mid

[lyric marsh]

crossbows have a reload

[fallow surge]

It cost you 5 durability on entity hit, and javelins durability in general very low

[lyric marsh]

yeah i know but still

[stray elm]

Javelins also have terrible velocity I think

[slim inlet]

No idea about other mods, I can only guess, once again, that those two mods have issues with recent CO changes.

[lyric marsh]

you can make three from one ingot

[stray elm]

I am still playing on the last version, would it work?

What is it? 1.21?

The one that added boats and stuff

I think

[slim inlet]

If you don't update CO to the version that changed spears, those two mods shouldn't explode because it cannot find spears afaik
or you update CO and don't use the meteoricsteel mods

[lyric marsh]

also damn javelin melee damage is low

i never even checked it

[fallow surge]

1h damage

[slim inlet]

You're meant to throw it after all

[lyric marsh]

it's 2 here

iron javelin

[fallow surge]

ah, for stone ones, yes

...

should not be

it should be 4, it is 4 in the itemtype

[lyric marsh]

full damage to animals

half to drifter despite matched tier

one tier higher does full

thrown does full damage tier matched, melee doesn't

best guess is melee does a lower tier

[stray elm]

Ok thanks, I haven’t updated anything

Mods don’t automatically update right?

[slim inlet]

That would be hell if they did

[stray elm]

Yeah

[slim inlet]

If you don't have a automodupdater thing, you'll be fine

[stray elm]

Thanks

[trail spade]

it would be a seceurity issue

[stray elm]

Bro steam workshop does it and it can be very annoying

[trail spade]

gmod has proven its a issue for security lol

[lyric marsh]

fucking around with javelins i found a cool tech

time a jump well while throwing to make it go much further

[scenic arrow]

I like that though, i ramble more to remind myself and others than you, just pinged ya cause it seemed apropriate

[scenic arrow]

Realistic too, it uses your speed as base speed then adds to it

[lyric marsh]

oneshotting drifters with 10 damage is satisfying

i will apply this knowledge later

the nighttime drifter fuck off kit

[graceful thistle]

Javelins very much a skill weapon it seems

better metal, less chance to break no too?

[lyric marsh]

not chance

durability

they use 5 when thrown

[trail spade]

i recently got javelins mostly done anim wise for my player model mod

they look fun to play around with

[graceful thistle]

What is it?

Raptor? XD

[trail spade]

avali

[graceful thistle]

Jurassic Story-

ah those are cute

[trail spade]

ive been working on anim compat for CO and armory the last few days

(mainly cause i just wana mess around with a varitiy of weapons instead of just the falx lol)

[graceful thistle]

I'm kobold gaming, but I'm waiting for a good cat player model mod

it's good to see more CO compat mods though

[gaunt ridge]

Does CO affect arrow stack limits. Before the update I was able to stack 64 arrows in a slot, now it's only 16. The wiki might be out of date but it says 64 as well. It might be another mod but I cannot imagine any of the mods in my list affecting it.

[fallow surge]

Yes, its 16 now

[gaunt ridge]

Is there any "counter" for the decreased stack size atm?

[lyric marsh]

quiver

[gaunt ridge]

Which doesn't show up in game afaik sans the attach bag loop on mounts.

[lyric marsh]

no not the vanilla one

q&s

[gaunt ridge]

?

[lyric marsh]

quivers & sheaths

another malt mod

stack sizes were reduced to encourage using quivers

[civic dragon]

also the mod 'Arrow Barrels' is very useful post the CO arrow stack size change, can set the size of them in Config Lib too

[lyric marsh]

i don't get that mod

if you wanna put em somewhere use a crate

[civic dragon]

yes but cool factor

i m m e r s i o n

[fallow surge]

You can put them in pile on the ground

[slate valve]

like a savage?

a barrel is much better

[scenic arrow]

Yes like a savage

[civic dragon]

API Fixed: Offsets from mounted entities now make sense, existing ones will need adjusting

• The mounted animation should position the player relative to the hitbox
• The attachment point on the mounted creature should go on the part of the entity the player's movement follows
• The seat offset adjusts the location of the player's hitbox relative to the attachment point

Seems like there was some work done with the camera and mounts in the latest pre-release. Looks like someone was listening, unless this was your work.

[gleaming cove]

Looking for some feedback on armour setups; is there a diffarent armour type outside of chain for the middle layer?

[scenic arrow]

only chain, there is some stuff which is both middle and outer, like scale

scale is a great middle ground

[gleaming cove]

so you get a bonus from having all 3 slots, light/med/heavy, correct?

you wouldnt run around without chain

[scenic arrow]

its not you get a bonus

for example

if you were to use a bow

you wouldnt want to use anything like scale

only at the torso and head

depends onn your set up

your class

imo brigandine is not really worth it

[stray elm]

I broke something, how do I dev fix this

I ain't doing that again

[scenic arrow]

what u broke

u used the smithing plus mode

[stray elm]

I somehow altered the entire thing by 180 degrees when I was done with it

[scenic arrow]

u used the smithing plus rotate mode

try it

use that mode again

its not even related to this mod

[stray elm]

don't work

[scenic arrow]

wekk

[stray elm]

wait

[scenic arrow]

ask in smithing pluss

not here

[stray elm]

maybe work now?

have to heat again

ok it worked again

thanks

[gleaming cove]

so is the layered armour additive?

[scenic arrow]

As in?

[gleaming cove]

gamb lower level, chain mid, brig/scale/plate outer level and then tallies all of those up?

[glass sluice]

shift + lmb/rmb

[gleaming cove]

@fallow surge can I please get some clarity on armor stacking on each slot?

[dense prairie]

Armormaxxing

[restive nacelle]

Pretty sure it is

[gleaming cove]

this is what id like clarity on

[restive nacelle]

?

What exactly

[dense prairie]

Best in slot perhaps?
Mobility / tanking?

[restive nacelle]

Idk what you wanna know

[stray elm]

If armor levels add up additively

That’s what he is asking

[gleaming cove]

Just clarification: is the best set up tailored gamb, then chain, then a heavy armour? You dont need all of the pieces per set, so which postives/negatives get taken into account?

[stray elm]

“Best” as in unkillable, but you’ll be very very slow

[sterile forge]

all the numbers stack

basic addition.

[gleaming cove]

but then head/chest/legs also work to cover the other spots as well, correct?

[stray elm]

Armor is leveled per each part

You could have very good chest armor put no neck armor

[sterile forge]

head armor will defend head and chest armor will defend chest. if it grays out another slot its because the piece you are wearing is filling that slot.

[restive nacelle]

Most protective would be tailored gamb, chainmail and plate, which is the only armor set that will only use the outer layer

But plate armor had the most debuffs

[stray elm]

Along with the fact I don’t think you need chain and plate

In most cases

[sterile forge]

the armor you wear will tell you what parts its protecting, and when you put it on, it will gray those slots out.

[stray elm]

I dunno, maybe plate should give you a negative blunt protection or something

That might be cool I guess?

Nah not really

[restive nacelle]

It definitely should be positive, either just gamb or steel plate isn't enough for high tier enemies

[stray elm]

Ok I’ll stop talking then

I have only done first story location

[gleaming cove]

Ya thats what I figured, I just wanted to know if each slot of light/med/heavy was additive so that wearing light/med/heavy gave the best overall defense

[sterile forge]

heavy armor is the best defense as you would assume.

thats not taking the downsides into account though.

[restive nacelle]

Just going to some caves is enough to find tier 4 enemies btw

[restive nacelle]

True, you might only want to use plate armor if you're a blackguard

[sterile forge]

yeah, the use speed penalty is pretty rough on plate. running full plate and mail will make you almost invincible, but your swing speed, and move speed will be lethargic.

use what ever sounds cool right now, later you can test out different armor combos to find what you like the most.
thats the beauty of CO.

[gleaming cove]

Is there an actual cap/diminishing returns on armour?

[restive nacelle]

Not that i know of

[sterile forge]

depends on what you're fighting.

some enemies deal higher tiered damage.

usually deep cave enemies.

[restive nacelle]

Even against a bellheaded shiver (around 40 tier 7 blunt damage) isn't that dangerous with full steel plate and gambeson

(chainmail has no blunt protection)

[sterile forge]

yeah

i want to say bears are like tier 3 slashing (correct me if im wrong) so some chain or scale can be good enough when doing surface things in bear terriroty.

all depends on where you're going and what tier metals you're using.

[restive nacelle]

I kinda wish there were more options for armor tbh

[sterile forge]

how so?

[restive nacelle]

You can ONLY use chainmail for the middle one

Seems kinda boring

[sterile forge]

some armors are balanced around taking the chain slot like forelorn, blackguard, and scale, but i guess i see what you mean? idk. i dont know what you'd even put in that slot.

how would you balance a new mid layer armor

[restive nacelle]

Extra padding or something

More blunt but less slashing and piercing?

Chainmail doesn't have that much protection

[sterile forge]

gambisons already buff the living hell out of your blunt and they are the only real choice for skin layer past a certain progression point.

[restive nacelle]

Blunt is still the damage type you can have the least protection of

I think it's just because of chainmail

[sterile forge]

then why recommend a blunt mid layer?

[restive nacelle]

What

Ig it's just boring to have chainmail as the only choice that doesn't use other layers

I'd say scale but that would seem kinda broken to have plate and scale

[glossy axle]

any progress on meteoric steel and m.s.compat getting updated or am i hoping too early?

[scenic arrow]

Tbh my major problem is brigandine has no spot because it has the same debuffs as plate

[gleaming cove]

ya thats what I found odd too

[slim inlet]

ask the mod authors for those

[stray elm]

Do you know how the damage reductions work for the armor tiers?

Like is trying to hurt something 2,3,4 tiers above you even less effective?

[hollow tulip]

GAWD DAMM

back pain

[glossy axle]

ask them here? they dont have their own mod discussions

[hollow tulip]

btw don't worry CO will be on the server I will run @lyric marsh

[scenic arrow]

For enemies, 50% reduction if your weapon id a lower tier

Otherwise none

[stray elm]

What about enemies attacking you

[scenic arrow]

For the enemy

[scenic arrow]

There is a graph

[stray elm]

Really?

[scenic arrow]

Ominside the mod

In the ui

[stray elm]

Surface drifters still very slightly hurt me

[scenic arrow]

Wait

[stray elm]

(I have leather jerkin everywhere)

[scenic arrow]

Let me show u

its very self explanatory but here

the attack tier bar is where you select thea ttack tier that you will use to compate

and the armor protection is how much it will protect you

you can also change it to show how much damage you will receive in percentage

or accounting for the hit chance in that bodyy

or average daamge

[stray elm]

Oh that’s what that thing does

Thanks

[scenic arrow]

@fallow surge for some reason the scrap spear has the same one handed damage as two handed damage of four. i think thats not intended

[restive nacelle]

Wait what 😭 there's no way

[scenic arrow]

yup

[scenic arrow]

they also dont have the new spear modes(i have the latest version of the mod)

[trail spade]

i could of sworn it was also missing the stances

[scenic arrow]

the stances yes

[restive nacelle]

How is that even balanced 😭

[scenic arrow]

idk man

ask the big man

[restive nacelle]

Mr big guy

Why 🥀

[gleaming cove]

Ive been told that there are some alterations to crafting amounts

Apparently thats not being reflected on my server

There's a pic of it taking i chain to make a set but its costing us 12

Mod load order issue?

[scenic arrow]

The diference is making one set of chain yields 4

[scenic arrow]

Mod load order is dependent on dependencies and the game does it automatically, so thst a mod dependencies always load firdt

[scenic arrow]

So two ingot->4 chain

[grave gulch]

So what sort of progression should i be looking at armor wise? Im like 1 week in and about to enter the copper age and I'm noticing that mobs tend to 2 shot me

At least with weapons its more or less the same copper, bronze, iron etc etc

[slate valve]

@restive nacelle Brigandine's gimmick is that It doesn't require any smithing work, just plates on a crafting grid. I find it very useful as all you need is power and a helve hammer, I use it before making a proper suit of full armor

[sterile forge]

weird niche as a mass Production armor

[slate valve]

I like it as a niche

[lyric marsh]

make jerkin to hardcounter drifters

make copper chain (i recommend waiting for bronze but copper is fine) for shivers and wolves

[grave gulch]

Can i just use hide for that or do i need proper leather?

[lyric marsh]

don't need anything more unless you're cavediving or running into bears

[lyric marsh]

hide jerkin is fine

[grave gulch]

Yeah not cave diving yet lol

Cheers

[still mauve]

i'm personally not a fan of changing the falx model
i like the vanilla falx because it looks cool, fits with the setting of vs and it's supposed to be a specialized weapon instead of a general use weapon (atleast lorewise)
it was specifically made to better deal with drifters and other monsters instead of human targets
i've heard some people have issues with the shape/length or serrations, the length would be better for cramped caves where the monsters are common and i always assumed that the falx was serrated so that it would leave a bigger wound when pulling the sword away after striking
you could add this as a separate weapon, i'd love to see more weapons in CO armory, or even a slight remodel of the vanilla falx to fit the CO aesthetic more while still keeping it true to the original

[trail spade]

add those new falxs as proper falxs and have the vanilal ones still be there but renamed to jonas falx or something 🥀

[still mauve]

the gold jonas falx 🔥

also the falx that's currently in CO fills a niche that i don't think any other weapon really does rn

maybe mace/warhammer but i think they were slower than the falx and had worse range or something

[lyric marsh]

falx is the best weapon

[fallow surge]

As I already said, I will not change vanilla falx, may be indeed just rename it later

[lyric marsh]

rot falx

[still mauve]

the rust falx

[indigo hedge]

Using just the plate curraiss without the arms is nice to avoid most of the penalties while still protecting the most commonly hit area

I like to use black guard so I'm full plate but my friends usually play hunter so I make them breastplates for when they want to be tankier. Works well it seems

[lyric marsh]

super light setup: full skin, chain chest, chain head + light/open helmet

[slim inlet]

extremely light setup: nothing. Just dodge. Skill issues

[lyric marsh]

light setup (best): full skin and chain, chestplate and helmet

[lyric marsh]

the payoff is 1% extra speed

going higher than the light setup tends to be overkill outside the early material tiers

but you can replace the sleeves and pants with scale

that setup is no longer suited for ranged

[chilly dune]

I've been using a bronze chestplate and light helmet with nothing else, and I've been pretty amazed at how effective just those two are

Honestly has been making me feel like CO could maybe use an add-on that adds an injury system that's determined by where a blow hits with armor greatly reducing the chance of an injury, just so there's a reason to armor parts beyond damage reduction

[indigo hedge]

Limb amputation from shiver bites

[chilly dune]

Yeah basically

Bruises and broken bones from drifters

[indigo hedge]

Arms: amputated
Legs: broken
Skull:fractured

[lyric marsh]

broken legs from falling

spine damage

[indigo hedge]

Adding a limb based health system like Minecraft RLcraft to enrage players with oneshots

Might actually be interesting since the game already supports limb targets

[slate valve]

Add splints to heal bone fractures

[scenic arrow]

Casualties unknown type shit

Get shot and there is shrapnel inside you

[thick prism]

yo maltiez i want to add full compat with CO to my mod abyssal depths. I have an item class for diving suits which adding a json CO patch ends up replacing so stuff breaks, should I just make another mod to patch that when both mods are present or do you know a better alternative?

i was thinking of making diving suit mechanics into a collectible behaviour to bypass the need for a patch mod

[lean token]

idk if it's CO or something else but sometimes I can't use the offhand nor use any weapon to attack until I unequip and equip the offhand back, maybe just unequiping fixes it but it's a shield so I equip it back

[civic dragon]

I have noticed this happens to me if equip armor with right click straight from my hotbar, it borks melee weapons until I reequip them, maybe this is your issue as well.

[verbal sentinel]

i must politely complain about how hard it has become to simply throw spears and javelins, or even successfully hit creatures (does not attack half the time, throw animation is janky and sometimes cancels out)

unsure if this is a me problem or if it's a genuine bug

[slate valve]

It's working for me

[verbal sentinel]

weird. maybe it's just me then. what's the key/mouse combo for throwing?

i may be doing it wrong

[slate valve]

you hold right click, then you left click

for spears you need to be in throw mode

you change that by pressing F, like a tool

[verbal sentinel]

and if i let go of right click at any point, it resets?

[slate valve]

yes

you can see the crosshair change

[verbal sentinel]

that's a bit silly in my opinion

[slate valve]

why?

[verbal sentinel]

it's hard to think about using both mouse buttons at once

it feels like i'll break something lol

[slate valve]

I cannot relate to that

[verbal sentinel]

so i struggle to time things right

i just prefer the vanilla mechanic more i think

feels more "powerful" to me

but eh, to each their own

[slate valve]

Yeah I think the vanilla mode is worse. Can't easily cancel the throw

You can scroll but it's annoying

[verbal sentinel]

i can understand

[slate valve]

The throwing itself is also very very fast

It's unbalanced and not really immersive, I like the delay CO adds

[verbal sentinel]

that's fair

again, to each their own, i'm not hating on anything, i'm just saying it's difficult for me specifically lol

the spears could be thrown further though, i'm used to them being aerodynamic and stuff

[slate valve]

Javelins are the dedicated throwing "spear"

Spears are now more for stabbing, they can be thrown but it's very much a secondary role

[verbal sentinel]

i want a Yeet Stick™️

[slate valve]

You could change the throwing distance in the config if you want the spear itself to be able to be thrown very far

[verbal sentinel]

im in a server where i dont think thats allowed 💔

[slate valve]

get javelins then

[verbal sentinel]

im in a difficult situation

yes i will indeed

[lean token]

True, vanilla is so annoying having to throw at the ground because can't cancel

[ancient gyro]

are there any weapons you can use from behind a heavy shield?

[scenic arrow]

One handed weapons

Falx, short sword, arming sword, uh mace, club(1.5 handed),long sword(1.5 handed)

1.5 handed weapons can be used eith an offhand but get slower when doing so

[ancient gyro]

whats the best option? im a rust mage with -15% damage but i need a mele option for when im alone on the server XD

[scenic arrow]

Depends

[ancient gyro]

we also have the combat overhaul armory mod

[scenic arrow]

What are you fighting

And what metal do you have

[ancient gyro]

anything that gets in my face. XD im not really targeting anything

and i have black bronze

[scenic arrow]

So bronze?

Uh

[indigo hedge]

Note that you cannot block and attack at the same time with a shield

[scenic arrow]

Idk why youd want a heavy shield

But a short sword is pretty good

Or the falx

[slate valve]

well it matters quite a bit, if you're threatened by wildlife a spear will work best. If by unnatural creatures (drifters etc) a mace will be good

[scenic arrow]

The falx is pretty fast but cant parry

[ancient gyro]

shame. spears should be able to attck from behind a shield.

[scenic arrow]

Oh well

[scenic arrow]

The falx is a great option

[restive nacelle]

You could throw them before the spear stance change, idk if it works rn

[scenic arrow]

Slashing and has +1 tiered damage

[ancient gyro]

yeah you can throw still.

[indigo hedge]

Balance considerations. Blocking and attacking at the same time is to powerful

[restive nacelle]

While blocking with a heavy shield? Nice

[scenic arrow]

Because here blocking actually negates damage

Doesnt only lower ir

Tbh

Heavy shield really isnt needed at all

Unless bowtorns

[restive nacelle]

Shields are really op irl, they feel pretty weak in CO, especially the heavy shields

[slate valve]

Heavy shields can completely nullify bear attacks

[restive nacelle]

And ESPECIALLY since there's no steel heavy shield

[scenic arrow]

(just get blackguard and parry the fucking arrows you casual)

[slate valve]

In fact, the wicker shield can completely block brown bears

[restive nacelle]

Literally sekiro

[restive nacelle]

Block, not parry?

[slate valve]

Yes

But you just stab them once they stop attacking

You're invincible doing that

[scenic arrow]

Mfs on co about to 1v1 a bear no armor and win

[restive nacelle]

Wow, i didn't know that

[scenic arrow]

STANDING HERE..

[restive nacelle]

Do light shield blocks protect more than weapons?

[slate valve]

Light shield has a higher tier of protection, but it doesn't cover all body parts, so it's more unreliable

[glass sluice]

it protects against projectiles

[scenic arrow]

Tbh just go berserk with a great sword as a blackguard

[restive nacelle]

Is it more than a greatsword?

[scenic arrow]

Parry the fucking bullets and stare them down

[scenic arrow]

No

Both are parry tier 9

[restive nacelle]

For some reason, blocking with a greatsword NEVER works for me

[scenic arrow]

If steel

[slate valve]

Sure, but great swords appear at iron. At iron I would say bears are not that much of a problem

[scenic arrow]

From what ive herad they are not problems even in normal playthroughs

[slate valve]

No, great sword is better at blocking/parrying melee, but can't block projectiles unless you're a blackguard

[scenic arrow]

Stone age wicker shield>>brown bears

[slate valve]

Once you know the tricks and are ready for them, sure. You can still be ambushed and misstime attacks/blocks

[restive nacelle]

I swear blocking never works with a greatsword, i almost always get hit when fighting

[scenic arrow]

You gotta learn the timing

Go in creative

Spawn gear foot bowtorn

Get some iron armor

Parry

[restive nacelle]

I said blocking

Not parrying

[scenic arrow]

Oh wow

[restive nacelle]

Parrying works just fine, but it feels like the block never does anything 😭

[slate valve]

Check the damage log

Blocking with a greatsword doesn't cover all body parts

You might be getting hit in a noncovered part

It's part of why heavy shields are good: they cover all body parts

[restive nacelle]

I wish it said which parts are exposed

I'll check in a bit

[slate valve]

Well... it tells you which parts are covered. So the ones not in the list are exposed

[restive nacelle]

I don't know which other parts there are though

[indigo hedge]

Should be noted black guard can only parry projectiles with a weapon, not block them.

[restive nacelle]

Is it the ones in the menu?

[slim inlet]

Your arms and hands probably

[restive nacelle]

Arms and hands?

Okay

[restive nacelle]

The fact that feet are included kinda confuses me

[slate valve]

Why?

[indigo hedge]

Is it possible to blackguard parry a firearm bullet? I'd assume so but it's so fast I'm not sure if there's even a projectile

[restive nacelle]

It's not a seperate thing in the menu, right? There's only 2 slots for shins and legs

[restive nacelle]

Well I can't read

[slate valve]

Animal AI is a bit wonky. And the bears do like a second "invisible" attack right after doing the proper attack

[restive nacelle]

I'm assuming it's them biting

But there's no animation for that

[scenic arrow]

The animation is quite large

I assume it would be more predicting than reacting

But if you get shot suring it you ahould parry it

[lyric marsh]

people complaining about m2+m1 to throw have never played an fps and that concerns me

[lean token]

I had a mouse once that had a failing right click, so everytime I would use it to aim it would basically do a quickscope by default

[wary swift]

Wolves do that too, from time to time.

Which can turn a sudden encounter into a combo wombo to the grave.

[dapper violet]

I mean, when I played my first FPS, it was keyboard only

https://tenor.com/view/super-nintendo-wolfenstein-3d-wolfenstein-snes-gif-10564913681426794832

[stray elm]

what can you put in the belt that isn't a quiver of somesort?

why no shield sheath?

[slim inlet]

CO doesn't have sheaths or belts afaik, you'll have to get quivers and sheaths then probably ask in https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/1427248356631252992

[lean token]

isn't bundled with CO, but the mod was made by Maltiez, so it's honorable mention

[stray elm]

yeah but its made by the same guy

(also did not know it existed)

[stray elm]

how does parrying work?

[lyric marsh]

wolf is an exception because doom already had mouse support

[restive nacelle]

Right click with the weapon, it makes you not take any damage

For weapons that can also block, you need to press right click and have the attack hit you before the parry window ends and the block window starts

[thick prism]

@fallow surge any recommendations?

[fallow surge]

dunno, not enough information

rn I'm taking a short break, cause I dont feel well

[thick prism]

aight take care

🙏

[placid tartan]

I hope you feel better soon

[stray elm]

Ok

Is parrying better?

[lyric marsh]

parrying is always better

full body protection and no tier limitations

[scenic cliff]

How does armory patch the vanilla forlorn hope and black guard sword shapes exactly? Cuz I can't seem to able to find the patch

[stray elm]

Am I dumb or does blocking/parrying still work while stuck in another animation?

[lyric marsh]

used to be

not anymore

[stray elm]

I’m hard at timing those things that’s all

[lyric marsh]

toggle vsync if you're using that

[stray elm]

What would that do?

[lyric marsh]

with bad reactions every latency advantage matters

vsync adds a TON of latency

[scenic arrow]

Its not a patch

If you put something in your mod on the same path as in what you want to replace, you can replace the shape

I have a mod that does exactly this for armory

Here:

Look at the path i took and compare it to the armory path of this same model

https://mods.vintagestory.at/show/mod/43146

You also have to set as dependency where the model you wanna change is

So it loads after it

If you want a more detailed explanation ping me in https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/351624415039193098 so we dont get too offtopic

[scenic cliff]

Oooh

Thank you

[ornate saffron]

how do i changed the health value of enemies I've been trying to mess around in the files but nothing im doing is actually working would be nice if someone could help

specifically the eidolon and chapter 2 boss

[scenic arrow]

Open the combat overhaul zip
Assets->combatoverhaul->jsonpatches->entities->lore-> eidolon_immobilized.json and erel.json

[dusky osprey]

hello everyone im having problems with combatovehaul how to open the ingame menu where u can configure things

cant find they key in my configurations :/

[scenic arrow]

Another mod called config gui, needs img lib

Or something like that

[amber spade]

i'd also like to know on behalf of our server's owner, is that how you disable the block collision?

[dusky osprey]

I meant this

[scenic arrow]

Yes

[scenic arrow]

Yes

Config gui

I know

Its another mod

[dusky osprey]

but I did open it exedantly 1-2 days ago

[scenic arrow]

Modlist?

[dusky osprey]

hmm nvm gonna install it now

oh by the way

[scenic arrow]

Careful not to get the 1.22 version

[dusky osprey]

any way to deal with that annoying thing that prevents me to throw a puch or swing a sword when im next to something?

[scenic arrow]

It will not work with 1?21

[dusky osprey]

I cant fricking fight in caves or in dungens cause of that

[scenic arrow]

Block collision?

On the configs

[dusky osprey]

yeah its from mod right?

[scenic arrow]

Yes

[dusky osprey]

I cant remove this overhaul mod cause other mods are dependent on it

[scenic arrow]

Its on the config of the mod

[dusky osprey]

I hope I can turn it off its soo annoying

[scenic arrow]

Thats not ehat causes it

Its combat overhaul itself

Meant to make you use other weapons

[dusky osprey]

like what?

[scenic arrow]

Spears and shortswords are great weapons in the caves

[dusky osprey]

spears? dogshit zero damage

[scenic arrow]

Lol

Shortswords

Pikes

Maybe not pikes

You can disable it

[dusky osprey]

when I go in dungeons towers level 1 drifters clap my chicks and I cant even kill one

[scenic arrow]

Its on the config

[scenic arrow]

Okay

[dusky osprey]

ok ill install that configurator thank you for your help

[dusky osprey]

cant find it config gui you said?

[scenic arrow]

Config lib, requires dear ImGui

[dusky osprey]

god bless you good sir

[ornate saffron]

i know where it is it's just not changing the value for the health i assumed i would only need to change the maxhealth and currenthealth values but for some reason they just aren't doing anything :/. im on 0.15.1 ill just have to tell the host to update it to latest version and see what i can do then since its clearly not working.

[scenic arrow]

the host has to change it yes

you need to change it on the machine that hosts it

[scenic arrow]

yeah, upgrade it to the major version 16

it uses jsonpatches as a dependency which allows you to set priority orders on patches

so i think the eidolon health might be getting patched and then unpatched

[restive nacelle]

Pikes deal more damage than 2 handed swords btw

Spears deal the same as a greatsword

Unless you're fighting drifters ig

Shortswords work very well for fighting in tight spaces

Or you can just spam the thrust attack on a greatsword

[gleaming cove]

Any 1h spear mods that work with CO?

[restive nacelle]

javelins are close enough

from the armory mod

[trail spade]

or you could put something in your offhand to use spears in 1h mode

[scenic arrow]

Lower dmg though/

:/

[restive nacelle]

same as javelin

does it have more reach?

[trail spade]

it has diffrant stances compaired to javelin

its thowing stance lets it attack like javelins too

[lyric marsh]

more range but slower

[ornate saffron]

Yeah probably but Im testing it in a basically clean environment so bit weird I'll try again later today with the current version

[graceful thistle]

You can adjust your range manually

with spears

also spears are a bit more tricky (but easier) to land full damage hit on things moving "at" you (headshots are arguably a lot easier with the way they attack)

[finite cosmos]

it would be really cool to be able to combine multiple layers of armor to into one, so we can have 3 pieces of equipment instead of 9

[lean token]

And then have 9 combined pieces

[scenic arrow]

not with the new rework at least

[pseudo dew]

does bashing stop a block?

[west summit]

No

[placid tartan]

@fallow surge I believe you asked to be reminded about the hotbar for firearms

Albiet I am one pre-version late

[fallow surge]

I have thought about it, and I think I know how to implemented it in code, but will do it in 1.22

[scenic arrow]

Amen, i pray for combat overhaul in 1.32

1.22

Great work you have been doing, and good to know you have beem taking a rest when needed

[trail spade]

see you next decade lol

[gleaming cove]

can use them to thrust/stab with 1h and shield?

[restive nacelle]

Yes, javelins are one hand only

[trim steeple]

how do i use the blunt side on the pole axe?

[lyric marsh]

overhead

[restive nacelle]

I thought it was if you were too close to the enemy

[fallow surge]

😩 it will take a lot of work to update ovh lib to 1.22

[hasty grail]

im having a strange issue where none of my armor seems to take any durability damage, nor does it seem to offer any protection. I have uninstalled both CO and Overhaul lib, cleared the cache folder and reinstalled but the issue persists. its both vexing and annoying as im wearing full iron brigandine, iron chainmail and tailored gambeson only to still get either instantly killed or have swathes of my health taken out in a single hit. Any help would be appreciated

oh, im on 1.21.6 and using CO version 0.16.16, Armory version 1.10.2 and OverhaulLib 1.21.0

[gleaming cove]

any other option? way the jav gets held looks awkward af when doing the stabby stab with it

[hasty grail]

good news, its been resolved. It was a dependency issue, think a mod update borked something. did a full reinstall of all the mods and their dependencies and everything is functioning as it should be.

[restive nacelle]

Spears, you can use them one handed, have more reach but are slower

Ig shortswords work kinda like that, too

[gleaming cove]

you can go spear and shield?

[restive nacelle]

Yes

You can switch to 2 handed mode if you want the extra damage

[scenic arrow]

good luck

[supple radish]

Question

Can I parry while blocking with the shield?

[restive nacelle]

No, you are blocking

Even with a sword that can parry, the shield overrides it

[supple radish]

Oh

[restive nacelle]

You need to stop blocking and parry

[supple radish]

So which is better?

Let's say I got an arming sword

This as my main weapon to fight rust monsters.

[restive nacelle]

Well, shield can block and parry (unless it's a heavy shield)

Sword can only parry

Also, shield can block and parry projectiles, whereas swords can only parry if you're a blackguard

[supple radish]

What you recommend me to use to take full advantage of my one handed sword mastery trait?

[restive nacelle]

Pretty sure the shield doesn't affect your sword

Are you a blackguard?

[supple radish]

No

But still I got the trait

[restive nacelle]

Then using a shield might be a good idea

[supple radish]

Alright then

Base combat overhaul includes heavy shields right?

What the difference between them both?

[restive nacelle]

I think heavy shields are from the armory mod

They are like light shields, can't parry, but when you block it protects every single one of your body parts

Blocking is tier 7, whereas parrying is tier 9 btw

[supple radish]

Oh I see

Alright then good to know

Thanks for helping me out

[restive nacelle]

Yeah, no problem

[shut bay]

what's the status of combat overhaul for the current rc version?

seem to be running into issues with starting a simple flat world

[shut bay]

just read this because i was too blind to see it the first time around

[amber spade]

Literally any weapon I use is completely useless in anywhere except the surface, the only thing that works reliably for me inside or underground is a frickin axe. It's not even a weapon

Spears and large weapons make sense to have block collision to discourage their use inside, but shortswords and the falx, weapons literally designed in the lore for fighting rust monsters in tight spaces, should not be totally unusable 50% of the time when in caves. I like most of what the mod adds but block collision on by default for short weapons is such an abysmal dogshit experience and I can't even config it as my server's owner is inactive

[dusky osprey]

Same man just use that gui you can turn that bullshit off from gui

I got bullied by literally level 1 drifter in space less 3x3 (even there if ceiling is 2 block tall u fucked)

[fallow surge]

Just remove all mods that has this mod author on them, and you will be good

[restive nacelle]

Idk man, have you tried getting good

[fallow surge]

It is an mp server, so they cant go the usual route

[dusky osprey]

I see that u got upset about this,listen dont wanted to sound rude but I like other mods that are dependant on this mod but I dont like some things that this mod brings. im thinking, disliking and being so negative about some settings in mod dos not make be bad person right? but yeah I get why u upset, this mods are chads but as my personal opinion that setting where u hit walls is dogshit 😄 I understand that wheever came up with that setting wanted it to be realistic but theres way more to that then it is in mod so thats why its bad in my opinion, but I gotta say other things are awesome and I love it and thank you for your hard work

[gentle bane]

I see that u got upset about this
listen dont wanted to sound rude

you can disable it tho

[dusky osprey]

gotta admit I cant, i work 10-12 hours 5 days a week so when I come home tired id like to chill the way I want cause I dont have so much time to go the usual route as many others do cause of all free time ❤️

[dusky osprey]

I did and everything is 100%

[restive nacelle]

I play with it and have fun, you just gotta adapt, if you still don't like it (for example, if you use a weapon without directional attacks) then you should disable it

[gentle bane]

wdym everything is 100%?

[restive nacelle]

Good, i assume?

[dusky osprey]

everything is good thats what I meant

[dusky osprey]

I mean I have dungeons mod as well and every time I tryed to go inside those drifters swarmed the place and I could not even land 1 hit same problem in caves so idk how you guys adapt to it

[restive nacelle]

Greatsword thrust spam

Or poleaxe

Depends on what I'm using

(if it's a small corridor)

[dusky osprey]

ah so its more like forcing you to use other weapons as well insted of just falx sword and its not about being good with swords xD

understood thanks

[restive nacelle]

Well yeah, falx is good but not all-purpose

All you need is 2 whole weapons

[scenic arrow]

Tbh a spear is actually good, i fought using a short sword and a spear in the 1 wide corridors in the archives and rarely hit the wall, same for the short sword

[dusky osprey]

so its not about skills I guess cause I swear I tried cause im to lazy to turn of game and change something from mods config or things like that xD

[scenic arrow]

Just hug the wall oposite to your swinging arm

[restive nacelle]

Falx cannot hit in small tunnels because it swings in an arch

[scenic arrow]

That easy

[restive nacelle]

You can use a spear or shortsword to counter act that

[dusky osprey]

still annoying for me to fill my inventory with serveral types of weapons when inv slots is so limited

[restive nacelle]

If you have the armory mod, you can use a ton of different weapons

[restive nacelle]

2 slots

[dusky osprey]

its more like extra steps and extra time spent wich I dont have sadly

[restive nacelle]

What backpacks do you have

[dusky osprey]

leather for now with 8 slots each

[restive nacelle]

That's plenty to bring 2 melee weapons

Or just

Bring a shortsword or spear only

You don't HAVE to use a falx

[dusky osprey]

now I see but at the time of problem i was broke it was my 10+ hour world so yeah

now im quit rich but yeah I see that setting as useless/annoying

[scenic arrow]

Tbh weapons are pretty cheap, what is expensive is armor

[restive nacelle]

If you wanna disable it, go ahead, there's a mod that lets you change it by pressing esc

Personally, it's not a big issue though

[dusky osprey]

trust me when you trying to get total of 20 copper bits to just make hammer and pick everything is expansive 😄

[restive nacelle]

You can make a flint spear

[scenic arrow]

40* but after that its a breeze

[dusky osprey]

already did this problem happend to me several days ago someone replayed to me and I answered back thats what happend

[scenic arrow]

Flint mace my beloved shiver abuse weapon

[dusky osprey]

not really I did change their spawn rate and shit but panning is way to go I just found out after like 1000 hours in to game

[scenic arrow]

Or heck, a heavy wicker basket, made with cattail, rope and sticks can completely defend you against bears

[scenic arrow]

Spawn rate up or down?

[restive nacelle]

Heavy wicker shield?

[scenic arrow]

Yes

[restive nacelle]

Isn't that from the armory expansion mod

[scenic arrow]

It counters bears

[scenic arrow]

So is the flint mace

[dusky osprey]

down or else why I would be complaining about being broke

[scenic arrow]

And the short sword

[restive nacelle]

Bears when i put in front of them a bunch of cattails and sticks:

[restive nacelle]

Well, that is kinda your fault ig 😭

[scenic arrow]

Tbh i dont like panning because i could be getting seeds while i gather copper nuggets, or find limestone or traders

[dusky osprey]

nah im good I like it this way

[dusky osprey]

thats just to get 40 to get started unless I find surface ones

[restive nacelle]

I like panning when i have an excess of food

[fallow surge]

Move offtopic to https://discord.com/channels/302152934249070593/454909656230526976 please

[restive nacelle]

And not enough copper nuggets

[scenic arrow]

Mb

[dusky osprey]

tell me about it it drains your saturation

[restive nacelle]

Oops

[dusky osprey]

right well it was nice chitchating boys thank for your recomendations ❤️

[amber spade]

i've tried, hard to do when all of my strikes bounce off because i'm 2 blocks away from an edge. i like most of the mod don't get me wrong but i can't even make use of most of the weapons because i literally can't swing them except when i'm outside in a wide open space

I probably came off a bit too harsh in my rant, I do appreciate Maltiez's hard work and the cool features this mod adds, but that one default setting and not being the owner of the server is just really frustrating. I think having the default setting be block collision for long weapons but not shortswords and small weapons would vastly improve the default experience

When I'm standing in a 1-block wide tunnel facing directly forward, I should be able to use my falx to hit the drifter who is standing at my feet punching me. But any leftclick causes it to bounce and barely move unless i am standing at a perfect 45 degree angle, in which case every other click is a bounce off. It basically makes short weapons - except for axes, which are tools and not weapons - completely useless in tight spaces which is exactly where they are supposed to shine, they're outclassed by spears and large weapons in any open environment.

[restive nacelle]

Pretty sure shortswords are the ones supposed to be in tunnels

Also, it makes sense that spears are good in tunnels

Idk if you could contact the server owner to disable that setting

[amber spade]

i've done so, but he is very busy with midterms etc so i am stuck for now

[stray elm]

well realistically you wouldn't be able to turn with them

[restive nacelle]

Yeah, but it would be too annoying to have your weapon bump into everything, especially since you can really change how you hold it

[amber spade]

no, they're extremely long and awkward to use in tight spaces especially around corners. their thrusting is better than a greatsword with wide horizontal swings for sure, but a short and easily maneuverable sword like the falx (hacking vertically, no reason it should bounce off the walls on the sides!) or shortsword (thrusting like a spear but less awkward) is far better suited to the cramped tunnels and underground

[restive nacelle]

Add directional attacks to flaxes

Trust

[amber spade]

but that's the niche of short swords...in vanilla VS, you're supposed to have two weapons, a spear for the surface so you can keep your distance from charging beasts, and a falx/blackguard sword for the caves to get in close and hack rust horrors to death. no one weapon is supposed to fill the entire niche

[amber spade]

that is honestly something i would love, being able to switch falxes between vertical hacking and horizontal sweeping

[restive nacelle]

Not really, one weapon is more than enough in vanilla

[restive nacelle]

Let us switch between hacking and sawing modes (more damage but slower attacks)

[amber spade]

as long as i could actually hit things in cave i'd be happy

[stray elm]

how much longer are polehammers from warhammers?

[wary swift]

About yay long.

I don't remember exactly, but I think when I tested them, it was like a fraction of a blocks difference, about .25 or so. Keep in mind, not only the physical length of the weapon matters, but also the animation.

You could always run a quick test in a creative world, though.

[gleaming cove]

Playing with this and fantasy creatures mod on

Dragon hits like a truck; if I had steel armour would it actually mitigate some of the damage?

And are there any armour considered t4 outside of steel?

[scenic arrow]

not how it works

here tier is diferent

its a bit outdated but here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALC6_QvqgbQ

[gleaming parcel]

I really really wish combat overhaul was modularized in some way.
I love a lot of the changes, the stuff from bullseye, the weapon animations, it all feels so nice.
but I don't like the armor and damage changes. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place where I have to either settle for vanilla or put up with features I really don't like.
I guess I just feel like it could be split up because it adds so much stuff

even if there was no way to remove the modular armor system, which I could understand, I wish there was at least a way to disable the tier system

[austere prism]

I'm pretty sure the tier system is like, technically part of vanilla too

That being said I also use Combat Overhaul pretty much explicitly for the modular armor system so

Odd thought, actually: Would it be possible to make vanilla tools deal CO damage types? Such that all damage types were usable in an install without Armory?

Might look into making a patch that does that, potentially, idk

[gleaming parcel]

should be I think.
but that's kind of why I suggest the mod should be modularized. You use CO for a different reason than I use CO, because the mod kind of covers a wide range of potential wants when it comes to weapons and armor

I don't know how tightly woven everything is on the backend, I haven't had a chance to read through the code or anything, but I would think at least some systems should be able to be disabled

I really hate fighting ||the eidolon|| with CO installed

I suppose it could be interesting to somehow poll CO users at to what features drew them to the mod

[lyric marsh]

co uses completely different math from vanilla

so you can't just do vanilla armor

(and you wouldn't want that anyway, vanilla armor lies to you)

co armor is objectively better in every way

yes you can't just wear a gambeson for full protection but everything else is balanced accordingly

co armor is way cheaper and way stronger

also to "disable" the tier system, make a json patch to unify the tiers into one (pretty sure people have already done that, look through moddb)

[still mauve]

i haven't played the new versions of CO but in what way did shivers get fixed? i remember seeing that in the patch notes

they're still pretty dumb in the current version i'm playing on so i'm wondering what i should expect when i eventually do play on the new versions

[lyric marsh]

something's wrong with the hit detection rn

they miss a lot

they were fixed by getting their animations back to vanilla speed

[still mauve]

can they hit you while moving or do they still have to stop moving to do it

[lyric marsh]

they hit while moving

except the hit almost never connects

need to wait for malt to figure out what's happening

[still mauve]

i swear they can hit you while moving in vanilla

also did they completely remove shiver leaping from CO

cause i'm pretty sure they can do that in vanilla

but i've never seen em do it in CO

[indigo hedge]

Yeah that was a weird fight. I did it once and at first I was using an iron greatsword and dealing 0 damage. I ended up just spamming the block stab as that was the only thing that made the health bar move.

Maybe skill issue but you don't have a lot of time to figure stuff out during it

||I settled for poking down the red eye/button on its face as slashing the head or body seemed to do nothing.||

Story content spoiler ^

[still mauve]

the weakpoint is the glowing blue orb on it's chest

you need to use precise weapons for it

or thrusting attacks

[lyric marsh]

not a spoiler because the co page mentions it

[indigo hedge]

I still consider it one. I want to be polite to those who haven't done the story yet

[indigo hedge]

didn't even notice it in the heat of the moment tbh

[lyric marsh]

nah just hit the eye

surprised so many people have trouble doing that

most weapons are very generous with precision

i've seen people claim it was bugged

only the really long sweeping weapons have a hard time with it

and even then they have thrusting attacks in kit

[still mauve]

i believe the eye works aswell

but yeah use thrusting attacks over slashing attacks

[tranquil onyx]

This is not in scope of the mod, though - it's supposed to be a complete system by itself.

Say, the melee animations have no purpose in vanilla, since it uses a simpler system for melee hits detection, unlike CO, which has an entire framework made to make it work. Multiple weapon types also do not make sense in vanilla, because there is just one source of damage, and having different weapons creates complexity that may not translate well into neither providing sufficient vanilla-adjacent balance, nor quality - since these items were animated specifically for CO.

Design-wise these features are interconnected, so disconnecting them from one-another is ill-advised for either maintenance or quality assurance purposes (also imagine maintaining multiple versions of the same mod, as a person-author - it's a nightmare).

If anything, Bullseye is a separate mod - so at least that makes sense - since it basically just overhauls how bows are handled.

[lyric marsh]

#bullseyeforvanilla

[tranquil onyx]

Bullseye for vanilla would be crispy indeed

[graceful thistle]

It's up for grabs iirc

🫵 You could be the Bullseye for Vanilla person, or bribe a modder with donations to take care of it

[lyric marsh]

the bottleneck here is tyron

he gets the say on what does and doesn't get in

and tyron likes to pretend this game doesn't have combat

[still mauve]

i do think a combat overhaul update for vanilla would be good

maybe not all the features that CO has

[lyric marsh]

it won't be as good as co i can tell you that much

even their "solution" for spear spam is the laziest thing possible

just make it slower

nerf spears, make throwing slower

pat on the back, back to implementing autistic shelves

[gleaming parcel]

While I don't know what anything looks like on the backend, so I cannot speak at all as to how easy the split would be, I kinda disagree about the other points.

the melee animations have no purpose in vanilla
The melee animations aren't useless at all in vanilla. One of the most popular mods for minecraft is literally just weapon animations and nothing else. Not only do they just make combat more satisfying, but things like PvP if you're into that are improved.
Multiple weapon types also do not make sense in vanilla
I think you're thinking about this solely from a utilitarian perspective. I like historical weapons. I'm sad that I only have access to a falx. Having lots of animated weapons is awesome.

I'm not claiming it's practical for Maltiez to do, I just wanted to share my desires. If I had a lot more time on my hands, I would gladly fork bullseye myself and maybe I will, but I'm very busy with school and currently just dabbling in VS modding. I have a lot to learn, and reading through through the code of bullseye.

I think the numerous mods that just add weapons and armor do prove there is at least some market for an extended weapon set, and adding nice animations atop that is just even nicer

[lyric marsh]

combat rework

it adds vanilla raycast weapons that at least try to have accurate visuals unlike vanilla

the point about co is that the animations are the actual collision of the weapon

in vanilla it's all fake

so you can't just transfer co animations to vanilla, it just doesn't make sense

greatsword does a wide swing while all that's happening on the technical side is a laser beam shooting out your face

[gleaming parcel]

again, I do like the hitbox based weapons

I don't like the way damage works

I don't like getting one shot by the stupid falling rocks in the ||eidolon|| fight

I believe there is a valid separation in the damage system, the weapon overhaul, and the modular armor

[lyric marsh]

oneshot by eidolon rocks?

that's interesting

that means your armor doesn't mean the minimum tier for reducing damage from that attack

[gleaming parcel]

I was wearing bronze

[lyric marsh]

practically co armor makes you very tanky

[gleaming parcel]

but that's kind of what I don't like, that weaker armor does basically zero against higher tier stuff.

[lyric marsh]

i actually don't know what tier the rocks do, but i don't remember ever taking more than like 2 damage from them

[gleaming parcel]

I just frankly prefer the vanilla armor system

[lyric marsh]

where 97% protection is like ~75%

vanilla armor is way weaker, it's just that it becomes even weaker when the right tier isn't met (it loses like half or more of its already poor protection + you take 100 points of durability a hit)

my guess, your head wasn't appropriately protected and you got headsmacked a bunch

now that really is devastating

the only thing that can make co feel weaker than vanilla is headshots

that's why appropriate headgear is top priority

and yes you can "disable" them in config

set head, face and neck multipliers to 1.0

[gleaming parcel]

I'm not ignorant, and I do get that there can never be a perfect version for me, I just really want more values exposed to the config and the ability to toggle more features

[lyric marsh]

i prefer vanilla's defense conceptually (though it's likely more a success by incompetence) where endgame (or even midgame) threats remain scary forever, but i prefer co functionally because it never lies to the player

co has the opposite issue of what you're describing

armor is perhaps too good

[gleaming parcel]

I do truly hope we'll get a combat update one day, though I think the biggest issue with Vanilla Combat is just enemy animations feel stiff and hard to read

[lyric marsh]

co doesn't change any animations

just gives everything accurate hitboxes and hitzones

[gleaming parcel]

I'm aware

[lyric marsh]

in vanilla everything is a massive cube

as for vanilla combat updates, i described above you probably shouldn't hold your breath for it

despite their increasing emphasis on combat as part of the gameplay loop with 1.20 they are very hands off and bare minimum about actually improving the combat

check out combat rework for a fix of new weapons with good animations while still having vanilla armor

[scenic arrow]

Increase enemy dmg tier pls, tier 7 at max is not it

You can get like tier 10 eith bronze, which means like a 50% protection

Tier 9*

Im pretty sure each armor tier above bronze increases defense of all by 3, where as copper to bronze is 2

[stray elm]

Well you can’t move at that point either

[sterile forge]

Its all trade offs.

CO really let's you fine tune your stats.
Recently I mental boomed trying to craft the best armor set for my needs and budget.
There were so many good options.

Settled on bronze scale sleeves and legs with brig chest and plate helm. So I could pack as much defense as I could while still keeping lighting fast weapon speeds and mining time for the deep caves.

[gleaming cove]

so what is an ideal armour setup?

[restive nacelle]

Good chest and head piece, with arms and legs (probably) being something with more mobility

[gleaming cove]

go full padded, chain head/chest, plate chest/head?

[restive nacelle]

Yeah, that's usually a good idea

Chainmail or scale for arms and legs for mobility

[gleaming cove]

so you dont do the piece where its all 3 combined, you do it seperate?\

[restive nacelle]

Yeah

Needs more space if you don't wanna wear your armor at all times (to avoid food penalty) but it's better in combat

[gleaming cove]

so how much of an upgrade is steel over meteoric iron? is it less since its based off everything being added together?

[restive nacelle]

It's still a pretty significant difference

For weapons it's 2 tiers above iron, and 1 tier above meteoric iron

I can't check for armor though

Holy brianfart

[gleaming cove]

So better off to make some plate with steel than invest in the meteoric iron stuff

[lyric marsh]

steel armor is overkill

but if you want to be indestructible then yeah go for steel

m iron armor is identical to regular iron

[restive nacelle]

Yeah, i think it's only slightly more durable

[gleaming cove]

we've got dragons on the server that hit like a truck, thats why im consideing it

[restive nacelle]

Steel chainmail, plate and gambeson should be enough

There's also other mods for slightly better armor

[gleaming cove]

right now ive got meteoric chain, full tailored gamb and am just tryiong to figure what my next step up shpuld be

[restive nacelle]

Plate gives a lot of protection

Brigandine you don't wanna smith all that

And scale if you want more protection but also more mobility

What dragon mod are you using btw

[gleaming cove]

Fantasy Creatures Reborn

[restive nacelle]

Interesting

[lean token]

I've seen people complain the dragons are stronger than the current final boss

[restive nacelle]

Kinda makes sense ig

[stray elm]

Do the dragons drop anything of worth?

[wary swift]

A heap of gold scales, that you can then melt into gold bars.

[restive nacelle]

I need this mod rn

Where do i find it

[wary swift]

https://mods.vintagestory.at/fantasycreaturesreborn

I did find some of the "lesser" enemies from that mod a nuisance, so I edited their files so they spawn further away from the player and in darker / more wooded areas.
But, it is more stuff to fight, I guess.

[sterile forge]

Scale armor would conflict with your chainmail and if you're wanting to push your defensivives as far as they will go id look at plate or brig. Always remember that if you're willing to give up the chance for survivability, you can use less armor on arms and legs, because those body parts take half damage.

[restive nacelle]

I mean, you could make some meteoric iron scale, unless you want the steel stuff

[gleaming cove]

why would the scale conflict with the chain?

[sterile forge]

because scale uses both the over and mid layer.

think of it like an advanced chainmail that you cant wear plate with. its light weight, and efficient as its own thing but HEAVILY loses out defensively against full chainmail + over armor

[stray elm]

Scale is cost efficient as well

[gleaming cove]

ohh ok, ty

is the repaired forlorn stuff worth it? or similar to scale due to losing out on a layer

[sterile forge]

The same way that scale is an advanced chain that you cant use an over on, forlorn and black guard are advanced plate that you cant use a mid on.

The quality of life of combining 6 peices into 3 is nice if you like taking on and off your armor a ton like me, but you lose a lot of defence and durability because of it. Again, Its preference.

[stray elm]

I think brig armor should have some stat advantage

Instead of being “bad but easy to make”

Maybe I don’t understand because I like the smithing mini game

[scenic arrow]

my boy brig got gutted:cryy:

[amber spade]

it kind of sucks in the base game too though doesn't it

[hollow pasture]

The only times I've cleared the RA and subsequent areas has been with Brigandine in vanilla due to the rediculous metal requirements. It's not exceptional at anything even there, but it makes stuff survivable and that's all I need

[hollow pasture]

I could definitely see some lower manipulation speed penalties due to it having a bit greater flexibility than larger plate harnesses, but it tends to be heavier, so idk

[fallow surge]

chest have lower manip speed debuf, due to being more flixeble, arms and hands have higher debuf for being heavier. When summed - it is the same debuf. But you can wear brig chest and plate arms + hands to minimize the debuf

[hollow pasture]

Ahhh, gotcha. Didn't know this was already implemented

[sage hornet]

@fallow surge im gonna assume you're waiting on stable versions before you try and port CO to 1.22?

[hollow tulip]

@fallow surge oh hey havent noticed but when did you become a VS dev? also wat type of work u do for them?

just curious

[fallow surge]

Please stop pinging me about random stuff that does not need my immediate attention

[scenic arrow]

I dont know if this was seen but the scrap spears dont have the new animation and when yielded 2 handed it still does the same damage as one handed:4

[slim inlet]

To answer you;
#mods-general message
Mod API Programmer

[hollow tulip]

thx

[hollow tulip]

sry

[rigid mortar]

(He's busy)

[silk pawn]

@rigid mortar

you smell

[rigid mortar]

him

[silk pawn]

I am him

[harsh crane]

CO is having a TON of patch related errors in my logs. I havent seen it affect gameplay, but i feel like I should post here.

VS Version 1.21.6
CO 0.16.16
JsonLib 1.3.1
OverhaulLib 1.21.0

I do have a decent amount of mods, but just from looking it doesnt seem like any of them touch what CO is having issues with.

[lyric marsh]

ain't that a 1.22 jsonlib version

those don't work

[harsh crane]

wait what

holdup

no thats 1.21

its the correct jsonlib version

[dire karma]

Wilderlands Rustbound is the culprit. I had the same issue. That mod contains patches that change stats of all vanilla armor and also change damage and damage tier for all vanilla creatures on top of it, which pretty heavily clashes with CO's balance. Those patches located in "game" folder inside WR's assets.

[rustic aurora]

hey boss can i use the mod for the test version?

[scenic arrow]

no

CO isnnt compatible with 1.22 yet

hes workingn on it

he said it somewhere

or i just confused two mod creators?

[rustic aurora]

nah just asking i just update my game

[stray elm]

Has there ever been thought of adding a mechanical/compound bow as a late game bow? From what I understand the technology is there in the vintage story world

[wary swift]

No, there is not enough technological advancement in the vs lore to offer ways to make compound bows.

[stray elm]

Why not

You can somehow cast barrels that don’t explode I am sure you could cast/forge what is essentially just a pulley system

[wary swift]

Compound bows were developed in our world 60 years ago.

[stray elm]

And?

All the focus was on firearms, not figuring out how to make a better bow

[scenic arrow]

just because the technology was there doesnt mean it was developed

[stray elm]

Even bow hunting is barely a thing compared to firearm hunting

[wary swift]

Because it's not just a bunch of pulleys, it's made possible by materials that aren't available in the game, that needs some good 300-400 years of development of metallurgy and material sciences to reach.

[scenic arrow]

they are made of fiberglass and carbon fibers

[stray elm]

Bro this world has temporal magic, all I want is a compound bow😭

[stray elm]

To be lighter

[scenic arrow]

not only that?

[stray elm]

Heavy doubt

[scenic arrow]

carbon fibers/fiberglass offer material that is stronger and more flexible

[stray elm]

You don’t need flexible in a bow

[scenic arrow]

Fuck you mean

[stray elm]

COMPOUND bow

[scenic arrow]

read how a bow works

[stray elm]

The thing that stores the energy is a flat spring

Of metal, probably some special alloy but we already have steel crossbows in CO

[wary swift]

No, you want to go and read how a compound bow works.

[scenic arrow]

its not

its the limb of the bow

[stray elm]

I OWN one

[scenic arrow]

wwhich acts as a spring

but arent